Wawa going in next to Applebee's
Spring 2018 was what I recall seeing posted in another thread on here. No idea if that was rumor or factual though.
They were supposed to break ground this month but everytime I drive by the location it is supposed to be, there is nothing being done..
Across the street from the new Auto Zone. Next to Applebees. Traffic is so bad now in that area, this will just make it worse. Its going to kill the little convience store next to the bagel shop. Such a shame. Poor guy trying to make a living and "big" business is going to take the food off his table and not give a damn. I will continue to go to him, for lottery and a cold drink. Will never support WAWA. I think since I've lived here, I've been in QUIK CHEK maybe twice.
I always wondered who owned the lone car that I see there once in a while
There is going to be a WaWa across from the Chatterbox - which is going to become a Quick Check - in Lafayette............... did someone say "Progress"???
The Exxon gas station is going to be a Quik Check and the owner of the Chatterbox is in negotiations with Wawa to build one there. If this all happens, Wawa will be across the street from Quik Check at the 206/15 intersection in Augusta.
The WaWa is hoping to open by June 2018. Construction was looking to start in October but they should still be on track to open in June.
As for traffic there won't be that much of impact. Cars will not be allowed to exit left onto Mountain Ave from WaWa, instead they will go behind Applebee's and use the traffic light out of that shopping area.
4catmom some new site (I forget who now, but it was recent) said WaWa was bidding on the Chatterbox
Jim L. - thanks for that bit of info. But I still see some kind of congestion. Mountain Ave is a mess already.
Ah ha- but maybe the new Wawa will squash the plans to expand the Mountain Ave Quik Chek! Silver lining! Sandwiches from WaWa aren't bad either.
I only wish that was true hktownie. Sadly as the QC project is being discussed as a PILOT project, money talks and usually wins.
Info on what a PILOT project is:
sorry Greg you are misinformed.
the lots QC is looking to go on have not been deemed an "area in need of redevelopment" so therefore the PILOT program would not apply to them.
Jim - Is the Wa-Wa proposal considered a PILOT property? I ask as I had a conversation with a person regarding this and I know one of the projects was discussed as a possible PILOT project. The conversation I speak of was with the Mayor and perhaps not an official position or something that has yet to be discussed with either the council or in an Executive session.
Does anyone have confirmation of this? nowhere can I find that it is happening, including on WaWa's website. not saying it isn't but wondering if it's truly official
The R, the WaWa was introduced and approved at the 5/3017 Planning board meeting. You can read the minutes of that meeting here if you like
Greg I am not going to share what may or may not have been discussed at an Executive session.
Of course you shouldn't Jim and I wouldn't ask you too. That would be a violation of fiduciary duty. I was not sure to what extent the conversations were, I was simply stating I know that PILOT was discussed regarding these projects- whether it was official or simply a part of the internal process.
Chatterbox will be going out and Wawa in if the sale goes through the paper stated, not across from it off of 206.
For those interested in the WaWa in Hackettstown, I would recommend reading the meeting notes, it's very interesting and has a lot of information in there.
Next to the Applebees? isn'tthe whole reason they never completed that part of the then Hackettstown Mall because some EPA or other environmental study had to take place and turned up "wetlands" or something and they were no longer allowed to build on it?
I hadn't heard that,Mark. I know that area was deemed in need of redevelopment and given the PILOT designation by the town. The tax abatement helps the development of a derelict property or area. Certainly better to see something there other than an eyesore.
The area in the way back of the 17+ acres is wetlands and will be preserved the area on Mountain where WaWa is going has no issues that would prevent it from being built on.
And the town has not given the PILOT program to this site. There would be a town ordinance needed for that and as of today no ordinance exists.
Wawa will kill it in Hackettstown. Two Wawas in both Phillipsburg and Flemington areas and both are always packed. Selection of sandwiches and things at Wawa better than QC. Quality not really even close. Only problem with Wawa is there is no self checkout machine in any that i have ever been to. Lines can get very long.
Jim- The following resolution passed by the council in March is for that property though. Is this not a tax abatement? I'm speaking of just the WaWa property not the rear area. Perhaps you are talking about the rear of that tract.
Also, from what I read, Chapter 18 of the Hackettstown town code is the 5 year tax exemptions. Section 18-5 gives the Mayor and council the ability to enter into a written agreement with applicant for the exemption of local real property taxes.
WHEREAS, on October 27, 2016, the Municipal Council (the “Municipal Council”) of the Town of Hackettstown (the “Town”) adopted a resolution designating the property located at Block 125, Lot 9.01, 301 Mountain Avenue (the “Property”) an “Area in need of Redevelopment” pursuant to the New Jersey Local Redevelopment and Housing Law, NJSA 40A:12A-1 et seq. (the “Redevelopment Law”); and
WHEREAS, the Planning Board of the Town of Hackettstown, at its meeting of October 25, 2016, recommended by Resolution that the Municipal Council designate the property located at Block 125, Lot 9.01, 301 Mountain Avenue (hereinafter “Property”) as non-condemnation Area in Need of Redevelopment; and
WHEREAS, the Municipal Council of the Town of Hackettstown thereafter designated the Property as “an Area in need of Redevelopment” by Resolution adopted on October 27, 2016 and authorized the Planning Board of the Town of Hackettstown to prepare a Redevelopment Plan for the Property; and
WHEREAS, the Planning Board of the Town of Hackettstown caused the Town Planner, John Madden, AICP, PP, of Maser Consulting, P.A., to prepare a Redevelopment Plan for the Property located at Block 125, Lot 9.01 (the “Redevelopment Plan”); and
WHEREAS, the Planning Board of the Town of Hackettstown reviewed the Redevelopment Plan, providing comments and suggested changes to its professional staff; and
WHEREAS, at its meeting on January 24, 2017, the Planning Board of the Town of Hackettstown reviewed the Redevelopment Plan for Block 125, Lot 9.01, 301 Mountain Avenue prepared by John Madden AICP, PP of Maser Consulting P.A., dated January 11, 2017 and adopted a Resolution recommending that the Redevelopment Plan be adopted by the Municipal Council; and
WHEREAS, on February 23, 2017, the Municipal Council adopted an ordinance of the Town of Hackettstown adopting the Redevelopment Plan pursuant to the Local Redevelopment and Housing Law, NJSA 40A:12A-1, et seq.; and
WHEREAS, the Town now desires to designate 2016 Mountain Hackettstown, LLC, or such affiliate thereof as may be deemed appropriate by 2016 Mountain Hackettstown, LLC, as the Redeveloper (“Redeveloper”) of the Property, subject to the condition that the Town and Redeveloper enter into a Redevelopment Agreement pursuant to governing law to provide for the redevelopment of the Property.
Here is a link to the Town Code Ordinance. I encourage all town citizens to download it and look through it.
My bad. After reading again I see clearly Jim is referring to the rear of that area. That portion is not part of the frontage property currently approved for the Wawa.
So when will construction start?
The entire site was deemed an area of need of redevelopment. However That does not necessarily guarantee a PILOT program.
Correct. It is simply just one step in the process. One could say it helps to pave the way.
Now that is one bad pun. LOL
So look at the Bergen Machinery property. This eyesore, after many years, brought in the CVS in the front of property and the back of the property is a mess. Now the same thing is going to happen to the back of where WAWA is coming.
Why doesn't the town fathers clean up one mess before creating another mess?.
Both of these property's were declared with environmental problems. Funny what money can buy.
Bernie you mean to say that promises and or written agreements that were made early on in the process to placate concerned folks are now never going to happen?
In the words of Gomer Pyle :Surprise, Surprise, Surprise!
And the bad part is that the 3 acres open space we get with the project is also apparently on hold, at least before the woods sort of blocked the eye sore, but honestly would rater look at open space then way over congested 100+ town homes and stores that have no parking.
Darrin I pass this mess everyday. How can you stand looking at piles of dirt everyday.
Do you think what we see now is better than the sight we saw from Bergen Machinery?
Bernie, The Bergen Tool buildings never bothered me at all, and actually gave the residents in the area some privacy, so yeah, in my opinion as a resident, it was better.
Secondly, the town was probably making taxes when the buildings were up, now they are only getting vacant land I would assume?
As far as the project goes.....I moved, couldn't stand the project and what the town approved to go into the space, and wasn't hanging around to see 100+ town homes built right on top of residents who have lived there for years and years. I still own the house in Hackettstown and now rent it out, so I still have skin in the game as far as investment and the well being of my tenants, but that whole project was and still is a total PITA, I got the hell out while I could.
Darrin, much credit to you for you interest an participation in town meetings... for most others I recommend you participate in your local town, government and community. This message board means zero at the end of the day when it comes to these items like this thread.
"Now the same thing is going to happen to the back of where WAWA is coming."
There are time frames the developer must follow for the WaWa and apartment construction that will prevent what's happening at CVS from happening here. The developer has to complete certain parts of the project by a certain time frame or face fines. The planning board learned from the mistakes at CVS and put actions in place
"Secondly, the town was probably making taxes when the buildings were up, now they are only getting vacant land I would assume?"
I don't have the exact figures in front of me, but the CVS taxes alone are more than what the whole Bergen Tool site was being taxed. So knocking the buildings down to get CVS in was a positive tax wise for the town.
My point was even though CVS may be paying more taxes, CVS is separate from the remaining property now, so now the remaining property owner can sit back and enjoy their lower taxes and large check from CVS and just leave the property as it is if they wanted to, classic bait and switch from the developer to the planning board. The developer at every meeting made it seem that phase 2 was right behind CVS, heck at one point they even portrayed it as happening at the same time as CVS, also doing work right before meetings, having follow up meetings after CVS was approved, etc....the developer was all push push rush rush to get the board to approve the plans....and now it sits not even touch for how long after plans have been approved?
I am not saying hurry up and build, but instead am saying what happened to the remaining grounds being converted to turf? Instead we only got a small front section of grass and the rest is unsightly dirt piles and crushed concrete, because we were lead to believe phase two was right behind CVS. Make it presentable if we don;t know how long we are going to have to sit on it.
The town charges residents fees for un-kept property maintenance.....how come they don't touch the developer of this site?
The old taxes on Bergen was $68,965/yr which they simply did not pay.
The current taxes are now divided into two lots - $68,210/yr for Jade, and $109,705/yr for CVS.
"which they simply did not pay"
It's my understanding the developer had to pay the backed taxes before doing anything on the lot, so the town did get their money
Seems like they were reassessed (which I think they would of had to do to split the lots) .... had commercial building improvements been included in that I bet they would have been much higher
I like the new CVS, much closer for us. And yes there is still some cleanup to be done in back, but to me it looks better than the derelict buildings ever did. The one major concern for that site that hasn't been tested yet it the water run-off problem. So far we haven't seen a major rain incident combined with an existing high water table since the CVS went in. Hopefully the measures put into place will be effective.
As for WaWa, people have been complaining that something needs to go into that abandoned space for a very long time. Good to see that will finally happen.
The one major concern for that site that hasn't been tested yet it the water run-off problem.
I disagree, we had some major rain since CVS went in. Streets in town flooded just this pass spring. And that area of Stiger and Main that normally floods did not at all. The improvements to that run off so far have meet all expectations and has been a huge improvement.
I agree, as far as normal to large water runoff, huge improvement
What we haven't see yet is the effects when the trout brook backs up, the reason the oversize pipe was put in in the first place, to essentially have more volume capacity and hold it underground along with the underground basins under CVS's parking lot. I am interested in seeing the effects, if any, on the surrounding basements and roads when these systems get filled and can no longer flow out the brook,
Yes that's the exact scenario I was thinking of, when the brook is full and the ground is saturated and there is nowhere for the water to run off.
The last time we experienced that, at least for our basement, was Aug/Sept 2011 with Irene. Where we are located Irene caused more problems than Sandy.
Still, Jim L overall we really like the CVS!
WAWA will be in a perfect area to access to the ByPass project connecting Mountain Ave and 57 to 46 over by target. lol
Wawa will create more jobs? Who wants them? How about bringing some good businesses to this town? Sorry to be a Debbie downer but seriously. Wawa?
Like what kind of jobs? If you're unemployed, is a Wawa job beneath you?
People who poo poo new businesses coming to town, no matter how big or small, are simply privileged people who don't have to worry about having a job.
Is Wawa actually still coming to Hackettstown because I thought that they were starting construction in October, it is now almost December and nothing has started yet.
Always go directly to the source.
Contact this person at the Wawa corporate offices. He should be able to provide details regarding the new location.
Regional Real Estate Manager
NJ Counties: Burlington, Hunterdon, Mercer, Middlesex, Somerset, Warren
Not really about the Wawa, but what’s the deal with that little building being built between Raceway and McDonald’s on Mountain Ave? Is it a strip mall?
GC - you should be more specific. this thread has nothing.
it was discussed at last night's town council meeting in our Engineer's report that WaWa is scheduled to begin construction on March 1st 2018. They got held up with their DOT application.
is this on the same side as Quick Check, where the empty field is that used to be that cemetary stone display?
are they knocking down those slum-like houses?
No Hackresident, the old cemetery stone company field is what Quik Chek is proposing to do. Wawa is going in the failed strip mall lot next to the lot with Lowes/Wendys/Applebees.
Hackresident blame the owner for the condition of those houses. He doesn't care because he wants to tear them down. The worse they look is better for him to try to put the QuickChek up in residential area.
My prediction is once the quickcheck is approved plans for the Wawa will be abandoned..they keep pushing it back
I can't imagine Wawa doing that at all. In addition I would say IF the plans get approved for the QC, not when.
They keep pushing back their construction date
“They keep pushing back their construction date”
They were looking to start in Oct...they were very optimistic or naive about the DOT process. It took longer than they expected so now that it is winter they will start Mar 1st.
The same thing happened with CVS, the DOT application took forever
Break the Quik Check Monopoly!!!
How long does it take them to slap up one of those buildings - a month?
Must be in the works. Found this today while I was looking..
I read that "Water Street" 's houses are also being torn down for the Quick Check gas station.. Yesterday mid-morning I tried to find Water Street, and I saw "lLittle street' and some other street, but not Water Street.....where is that?
Water street is the road that runs by quest blood lab
Hackresident - You may want to switch over to the thread about the Quik Chek proposal since this is all about Wawa.
Water Street is on the other side of Mountain Ave than Little Street or Bell's Lane. It's not quite opposite Bell's Lane, you would drive between the medical building and Rent-A-Wreck/Htown Tire/etc.
No houses on Water Street are involved in the Quik Chek proposal. Two houses on *Washington* are involved as well as the vacant lot and houses on Mountain Ave.
Feeling pretty disgusted with the old bait and switch by the town on phase two of the wawa plans.
The plans were "sold" to the residents including a long walking trail along the river along with a boat launch. This, as a resident, was a very appeasing aspect to the plans, that we would be getting a usable park!!!
That was the bait.....and then the switch from the town...
I was not at the town council meeting to know the exact details but it seems, correct me if I am wrong, that the town council decided the town did not want the liability of the walking trail. The planning board really had no choice to go along with it.....so just like that no more walking trail, no public use to the property what so ever.
The way our town goes about, in this case, IMO, tricking residents is really getting old....they knew of the plans since day one, but after everything was approved and just as construction is about to start....then the town raises concerns about this???? Really?
Wawa is know for squashing any convince stores, gas stations and sandwich shops near them and we’re it’s located is really going to close down the c-store and bagel shop directly next to them I’m a demographics tech and have no doubt about that
It may be an issue for a convenience store. However I would think gas stations are safe as it will not have a fuel dispensing aspect to it.
In addition I can't imagine a quality bagel shop having much competition from a Wawa as far as bagels are concerned.
Greg - Budd Lake Bagel sells a lot more than just the bagels. They're a full deli with lunch sandwiches that may or may not be on a bagel. Plus they do a full breakfast menu. I agree the bagels aren't going to be such of an issue, I'd be more concerned over at Hot Bagels which Budd Lake is already surviving against. But even there they have the rest of the deli too. Wawa won't be competition for a full sit down breakfast either. The convenience store and Quik Chek further up will be impacted most.
When the Quick Chek in White Twsp arrived in Oct 2012 at the corner of Rt.519/Rt.46, I predicted, wrongly, that the Bagelsmith, across the street and the US Gas station, right across the street also would go out of business after a year.
I was wrong there. While it hurt their business, it forced them to become more competitive and creative in their pricing, which keeps them around.
However, Wawa does the exact thing that Quick Chek does- I would expect the Quick Chek there to either improve/move/build as has been spoken of, or just shut the door altogether in that location near the new Wawa.
Am I reading you right that the wawa we are getting is just a store not a gas station? I didn’t realize they made them that way
I think if I need to go to a convenience store while driving on Mountain Ave, I'll just go to whichever one is on the side of the road where I'm driving. If I want a sandwich, I'll go to C&L ! :-)
So, where is this Wawa going that everybody is talking about?
I did not realize that was a fueling station as well. I have been so focused on the QC application that I have not reviewed the Wawa plan. I thought I read it was a store only. I was mistaken.
All the more reason not to allow the QC project to move forward.
Thanks ! OnTheEdge
Is Wawa pushing back their construction date again? It is now March 6th and they still haven't delivered any construction vehicles or done any demolition to flatten the land. I am just curious as that I love Wawa and glad that we are finally getting one.
Be patient. The weather has a lot to do when construction starts. With the snow coming tomorrow I don’t you will see any construction vehicles for a few more weeks at least.
It's March snow..will be gone in a few days
I predict quickchek will start construction b4 wawa
QC has not been granted a variance to move forward as their presentation is not complete. Hopefully they will not get it and there will be no construction on that site, by QC at least.
QC Is pretty much a done deal...they did their homework...there Is no real organized opposition..5 people at last meeting
It's a variance request so hopefully it's not a done deal. If this were already all commercial then sure. I hope attendance at the "last" meeting will match the early meetings.
LOL, when people say "it's a done deal" it just goes to show how little they know about how the process actually works.
with the Wawa going behind Applebees...wasn't the reason the "mall" they were trying to build back there stopped because of some kind of "environmental study" that ended up declaring the space "wetlands" and that's why there's been nothing on the site other than crumbling half-built concrete walls and a small carnival with kiddie rides once in a blue moon?
That is correct, and it's also why the back half of the property will have nothing built on it....the walking trails that were suppose to be put in back are now, by request of the town council, only for the residents of the apartments that will be built in phase 2 of that project.
WaWa is going next to Applebee’s not behind it. Behind there are wetlands area but the originally footprint of the complex that was going to go there years ago has been grandfathered in. So as long as they used the same footprint they were allowed to build. Which is what they are doing.
The walking trails are out of the plan entirely, not just being used by the residents of the new buildings.
the walking trail that would have run deep into the woods has been removed. It made no sense as it was a dead end trail and there was no way to police it. The Applicant agreed to still have a smaller trail leading to the river with a sitting bench for use of the residents of the development.
If at all possible the trail should have been accommodated so police could have drove through if they wished. I do not remember the setup off the top of my head, so I am unsure if this was feasible.
If the owner of the property was willing to give us a walking trail and a boat launch....why would we give that up cold turkey with nothing in return and not just modify it to work?
again Darrin, you and the one other person who attended the planning board meetings would have even known that walking trail existed. It was more of a headache for the town than a benefit.
Any chance they can add a snow mobile trail?
Yeah I know Jim, I just can't stand when a developer is willing to give the town something for the resident's benefit....and then it gets removed for various reasons.
We had a developer in front of us that was willing to give us something, we didn't want to deal with it, so we gave it back.....with nothing in return. I feel like with some adjustments we could have made something work....not just said never mind!!!
you're getting a lot of facts wrong. First the developer wasn't willing to "give the town something". Our town planner wrote in the development plan that there should be a walking trail. The developer tried his best to accommodate the request but with wetlands back there he was very limited in where he could put the trail and how he could connect it. The result was a sloppy plan where there was basically no public parking for the trail, no way to loop the trail so it just dead ended in the middle of the woods. It was not as you put it before a "usable park." the Planning board brought up the trail at the meeting and ways to make it better, but again because wetlands there was no other place to put it. We thought we could have open grass fields in the back but because of wetlands the Highlands demanded tall grass to have the field area fill in over time. We couldn't have another opening at the Lowe's end as that was not the developers property. So once the town reviewed the plans the police had concerns over how to over see the trail and the town did not want the liability of maintaining it and policing it.
we didn't "bait and switch" the public or "trick" the public we made the best decision base on the options available.
Let's just be clear about one thing first, I am in no way shape or form saying the town bait and switched on purpose...it is just the way it turned out for various reasons, but with that being said my facts are not wrong Jim.....I just do not know every single detail, I am just public....I only know what was discussed at the meetings I was able to attend, and from that I gathered:
Fact: There was a walking trail in the plan....and the developer was apparently acceptable to this.....
Fact....in the end the town got nothing.
Fact....maybe we should reconsider our town planner if he is making plans and promises that the town cannot accommodate?
And as far as bait and switch...I personally was very excited about the plan because they were incorporating space for the public to use....in one way or another, as usable or unusable you and I may think it would have been.....and then it was removed AFTER everything was approved......that is LITERALLY the definition of bait and switch....I do not care if one person knew about the plans, or 200......The public (me and the other person in the meeting) were still sold on a usable trail with a boat launch.....and got nothing.
I get the town's reasons, and I understand why it did not happen....but that should have been brought up and handled PRIOR to making that a point when the plans were approved...essentially promising the public they were getting something and then taking it away.
you are still wrong on so many levels, but I'm tired of trying to correct you so go ahead and feel like you got duped if you want.
Points well made, reasonable, educational and thought provoking!
Jim L-- doublespeak, quite weak and submissive.
Well, planning processes inherently change as options are explored. I don’t see how it can be any other way, can it?
please point out where I doublespoke?
Darrin is only concerned with the black and white = we had something and then it got taken away. I filled in the grey with facts.
"that is LITERALLY the definition of bait and switch"
In reading through the chronology of what happened, I believe "white elephant" is a much closer definition than "bait and switch". The item offered to the Town was deemed BY the town to be far more trouble than it was worth.
It's also not uncommon for Governing Bodies to decline things that were made conditions of approval by Land Use boards. It happens all the time, usually due to insurance concerns.
I don't get how I am still wrong Jim....I think I spoke on quite neutral ground on my last post.
I UNDERSTAND the town felt it was a bad plan, there was no parking, the police couldn't drive back there to police it, it was not marked and nobody would know where it was......BUT the whole point of the planning board, etc. it to review plans PRIOR to them being approved....shouldn't have made promises by approving the plans if it was something that in the end the town was not even interested in....this idea was presented by a paid town professional and incorporated into the APPROVED plans....if it was clearly that bad of an idea as you say, why the heck even incorporate it.....the developer was okay with trying to incorporate it into their plans.....then AFTER the plans were approved the town decided they didn't want it/the liability/the inconvenience/etc.
I am trying to be as broad as possible, and let you know that i understand WHY the town did it so you can stop simply saying i am wrong....... I am not wrong...I am a resident who would have enjoyed the park, made use of it, and told others...i went to the meetings about this project...but apparently missed where the town council overruled the planning board.....
Ianimal, if you saw the way the town planner presented the walking trail/boat ramp you would be saying bait and switch too.....the hard sell was on in full force.....the whole project was presented in such a way as to say "Look what we can get if we approve this"
+1000000000000 Darrin. You......Are..........Right. That's clear.
Well there you go Darrin you gained a new fan. 2020 knows you are right even though you admitted:
“ I do not remember the setup off the top of my head, so I am unsure if this was feasible.”
“I just do not know every single detail, I am just public....I only know what was discussed at the meetings I was able to attend, and from that I gathered:”
“I was not at the town council meeting to know the exact details but it seems”
You have admitted you don’t know all the details or attended all the meetings where it was discussed. You’re missing a lot of facts I have tried to explain them to you but you insist you are not wrong. I’ll gladly have a conversation with you next time I see.
Although you make a nice point by taking my posts out of context....I have listened to you Jim....even reiterated what you said so you know I listened....but I am still wrong? Okay now I am lost...well meet up soon and set the record straight.
They will probably never build the wawa..there is no mention of Hackettstown on their website's coming soon section
Always go directly to the source.
Contact this person at the Wawa corporate offices. He should be able to provide details regarding the new location.
Regional Real Estate Manager
NJ Counties: Burlington, Hunterdon, Mercer, Middlesex, Somerset, Warren
I called...No record of a Hackettstown Wawa
Bug3 - The real estate person at Wawa for this area had no idea about the new store? Yikes. LOL
Or They wouldn't tell me...probably a good idea
The WaWa is still going in. Their application is being held up at the DOT. The same issue CVS had. The DOt is notoriously slow. Our Mayor and town Engineer have been on the phone with them numerous times trying to get them to move the application along.
Why are the Mayor and Engineer advocating on behalf of the applicant with NJDOT? Do they really love Wawa coffee or something?
the application was approved by planning board in May 2017. It's now Mach 2018 and Trenton is talking their sweet time. Why wouldn't they make phone calls to get this moving along? I didn't say they were advocating for the applicant, I said they were trying to get Trenton to at least review the plans and get the application to move along through the process.
If Wawa went through the approval process and is going to be contributing to the tax base of Hackettstown isn’t it the job of the Mayor to advocate for the tax payers he represents?
If they're calling Trenton for them, they're advocating on their behalf with perceived political pressure. Do you have any idea how many development applications on State highways are submitted every month in NJDOT's North region (Bergen, Essex, Hudson, Morris, Passaic, Sussex and Union counties, in addition to Warren County north of 57)? A 9-month delay is nothing.
I agree with Ianimal, as much as I want to see wawa come in, as I understand from what Jim is saying any political pressure to jump the line, hurry up, whatever you want to call it, would be and should be considered unethical
CVS as well as TONS of other developers have experienced the delay...I am sure the delay is NOT because DOT is sitting around playing cards, and as Ianimal states, they are probably THAT busy.
ok, I'm done giving you guys updates. go back to playing the "are they coming or not" game. Sorry for providing information.
They have to build it first...but why not..other businesses on mt ave are open 24 hours
I would gather it will be a 24 hour fueling facility as the only other one open for fuel 24 hours in the area is the QC on 517 I believe.
You just can't help yourself huh? LOL. Thanks Jim I, as well as most folks on HL do appreciate your input.
I have not been able to connect with Sharon and review the plans myself. You saved me a trip!
For those that are still playing the are they or are they not really coming game, excavation equipment has been dropped off on the site this morning. :). Finally ready to move forward
not just a wawa moving in but also a smash burger going in where the old gas station is.
Actually they are moving all that excavation equipment to the site of the old tombstone store on sunday
Smash burger? Where and when?
Smash burger! Really? Yay!! Awesome!!
so what is going on the site? A lot of equipment has been clearing the area over the past few days. .
I see that there has been building progress. Is this really going to become a WaWa or is that just a rumor still?
It is a total fabrication and rumor regarding a Wawa at that location-- said no one ever!! LOL!!
Emily- It is noted on the Wawa corporate website regarding this new location, Indeed.com has had employment ads for the Hackettstown location. In addition, you can look on the Hackettstown.net website and read through various council and planning board minutes dating from last year to follow the Wawa application process. Also, a council member who is part of the HL regular group of contributing posters has stated ad nauseam that a Wawa will be a great addition to our town. So the sum and substance of my remarks is absolutely without a doubt, you take it to the bank, I guarantee for certain a Wawa is under construction and will be located on that site.
Thank you for that epic display of mansplaining, Greg. Next time a simple link to the WaWa website would suffice.
Or you could have engaged in some woman up-scrolling prior to redundant question asking.
Someone took the time to answer your question in depth, and you accuse him -- with zero reason to do so -- of being a condescending sexist.
Seriously, I don't know how much further down the rabbit hole we can go.
Yikes! I do apologize, Emily. I actually interpreted your post as if you were joking around hence my thorough tongue in cheek response. This thread has been active for the past 6 months with scores of folks stating the fact it was a bonafide project in the works. I didn't realize you had not read through the entire thread.
On a positive note, I have actually never heard the expression 'mansplaining". I learned a new word! LOL. Obviously you don't know me but I most certainly would never speak that way to someone. I tend to be frank at times but never intentionally condescending.
It's all good! : )
On a completely random yet related note am I the only person who immediately hears George Harrison's wonderful song "Wah- Wah" in their head each time visiting this thread??
YO Jim L is this property going to be left half done with the plan like the property of Stiger and 46 (CVS)?
That tract of land had a plan also.
That certainly was left in a mess!
Yo Bernie. This is a different developer and there are timeframes built into the site approval that would f the developer misses they face fines. So no it won’t be left half done like the Bergen tool site
Feel free to reach out to the owner/developer of that site to see when he is going to start building. The planning board approved Phase 2 a year and a half ago
Can't wait. Better sandwiches than Quickchek. You can actually get chicken salad at a Wawa.
Wow, I am actually thinking about moving back to NJ so I can go to the Wawa. Oops, must have had a senior moment.
So when will we get a sheetz? ......just kidding
Went to Sheetz a few times when my kids went to school at WVU.There all basically the same in my eyes as I just drop in to get a coffee on occasion.
bake off between wawa and sheetz - wawa wins for food
I was waiting for someone to go there!
For all the time I lived in NJ and Hackettstown most recently I never close to a Wawa. I moved down to Richmond and I have one literally around the corner from me and a second one maybe a mile down the road.
Traffic is back enough going through Hackettstown in that area. It will only be worse with WAWA and apartments going in. Not looking forward to it.
Been to quite a few Sheetz while traveling in the south. Same as WAWA and Quik Chek. Nothing special. I don't find any of them special.
There will be no left turn out of WaWa. They along with the apartments will have to go through an easement at the back of the Applebee's to that traffic light to turn left onto Mountain Ave so it should not have a huge impact on the current traffic.
yes in the back. 145 apartments. It is the same project that was supposed to go in there way back in 2006 but stalled. Back then it was 177 units. Now the approved site plan calls for 145 units. Of which only 25 apartments will be "affordable units" (17%).
Here is the parent company's site. They have not updated the rendering of the Lion Gate At Musconetcong River, the approved plans are different. But if you are looking for contact info they would be the ones.
"There will be no left turn out of WaWa" I don't think I've ever driven the length of Mountain ave without seeing someone make an illegal turn, that sign will be more of a suggestion at best. The only time I see police no Mountain ave is when there is an accident. They could literally write a ticked every few minutes there.
Denis the curb will be raised and curved to only allow right hand turns out of WaWa. Person would really have to jump the curb to make that left
Jim L, Thanks for adding reasonableness and facts to what seems to be nonsense of those who are uninformed and unwilling to get off there couches to make a difference. I along with others appreciate your civil service, candor and explanation of matters that many could participate if they actually cared.
We need more Civic participation and while this forum can be informative it is not the scope of the full picture... I would suggest,the following...participate!!!
civic participation, according to the American Psychological Association, is "individual and collective actions designed to identify and address issues of public concern". It can be defined as citizens working together to make a change or difference in the community.
I am so disappointed about the Wawa. What Hackettstown really needs is a great YMCA, or some other fitness center with a pool. There is nowhere to swim indoors. We definitely do NOT need another convenience store. That would have been the perfect spot. What a waste of space! Another awful decision by Hackettstown.
What should be researched and spotlighted is what the tax situation will be. Did they receive special tax abatements? Same thing for the pending Quick Check less than a mile down the road.
Ok I’ll bite taxpayer so since it’s not what you wanted it’s an awful decision? That site has sat vacant since the 1980s. obviously if YMCA had any interest in opening a location in Hackettstown they had plenty of time to buy that site. But they don’t. The town has had developers come and go with plans for that site with nothing built. For 30years.
And no bonv neither site has received any special tax abatements.
And what is wrong with open space on Mountain Ave.? Especially along the river. All this development brings down the values of the houses nearby, which then drives down the property taxes collected.
It was not open space. It was half developed concrete slabs and a complete mess. Now the entire site will be cleaned up and 13 acres will be left green along the river and the back of the site
@ Jim L, will those 13 acres that are left green along the river have public access?
This is a google image of what the site looks like. It has sat like that for decades. I certainly wouldn’t decribe that as open space. Now all that space on the right will be cleaned up and made green
At Wawa.com's website, under the "Coming Soon" tab, there is no mention of a store opening in Hackettstown this year.
@ Jim L
Just wondering, do you know of an online, publicly available, proposed site plan(s) for Wawa and the apartments? Out of pure curiosity, I started to put your two posts on the apartments and the google earth image together, in my mind, then combined the images I captured of the two. Attached is my result. I start to wonder if the Apartments will be in their own buildings moved further back on the land or apartments over retail space. It seems that if the Loins Gate builds on the existing or replaced foundations currently in place, there wouldn't be enough space for a full service Wawa. I used what I have seen from aerial view of other existing full service Wawa(s) as a comparison of space needed. Just try to piece it all together. Your thoughts?
The original plans for that site years ago had more residential buildings. Here is what the site will look like now that WaWa has replaced some of the residential. The light green section will be planted with wild grass not turf so won’t be “usable” space but preserved wild land to help with any river over flow in that area. Full drawings are available at town hall, I’m not aware of any online
Do you know what's happening with the land behind CVS. Are they still going to build housing there?
Wow. Ever since Murphy....now we get wild grass plantings.....smoke em if you got em....
Jim L: do you know the total acreage and how much of the green will be "used" by the residents (baseball? playgrounds?)
Off hand, just based on the picture, this looks pretty good and a departure from the usually un-green developments approved in this town. Am I wrong? Or is this already protected lands?
Yes, drive them to the light, go to the light..... That's good planning too, unlike many previous adventures in individual access points for each business or neighborhood.
Though I do disagree about the traffic. While funneling them through the light is good, 145 apartments can not be a slight traffic increase. At least during commuting times.
I also disagree about OK impacts to Musky. We put so much runoff into it that we must screw it on every rain storm. Too many direct impacts from parking lots. Perhaps that ship has passed but I am sure this one, with it's green space, is better than the strip Malls Mansfield has graced us with on 57.
Nice design although I prefer Caldwell or Sparta ---- hope our picture changes :>) Seems like much better planning than usual from our team. Hopefully, congrats.
I'm pretty sure none of that is official. Looking at Wawa's official website under 'coming soon' in NJ, it doesn't mention anything about a location being built.
Aerione - What Jim L posted is the official town approved plans. It's definitely all approved and the building has already begun. You'd have to ask Wawa why it's not up on their website. But since it's just recently broke ground the ETA might be out of range of when they last updated their site. The other locations are up to fall. Maybe the opening date is expected to be more like early winter.
It’s official I don’t know how much more I can state that. Technically WaWa hasn’t broken ground yet as they are still in the process of clearing the entire site. About 45 days out from WaWa construction starts. Perhaps by then it will go on their website and people can stop guessing.
SD as for the open land. It’s protected wetlands so the state had big hand in what could be planted around it. They wanted the tall wild grass so unfortunately there will be ballfield or playground. We tried but got shut down real quick once we were told what the NJDEP wanted there. Best we could have gotten was a walking trail along the river which was In the plans but removed
@ Jim L
Thank you for providing the concept site plan and satisfying my curiosity. Make sense now.
Yuppper, thanks and this one seems to make sense, state/local, whatever the reason, it seems we got as good as we gave on this one and I hope the owner/developer feel so also.
I have to say: good job, go figure, congrats.
Too bad about the trail; hope the planners audit themselves as to why they failed in this. Especially since trails will be made --- have to grant access to the stream I believe. But good to know how to improve so they can win next time!
I will shop WAWA before I go QuickChek.
"Too bad about the trail; hope the planners audit themselves as to why they failed in this. "
it wasn't the planners that failed on the trail. They included one, the problem was it was a 2000ft dead end into the woods. So Town council and police had concerns about policing it.
I was advised the Town Council nixed the trails, same as they do with any new Rec fields proposed. they don't want to maintain anything more than they are doing. So much for worrying about the Quality of Life...
Sounds like an out of site place that could become trouble and require policing. Doesn't seem like a big deal. Looking forward to Wawa.
I wonder why there is no sign..something like Wawa coming soon
Bug, I imagine there will be a sign once Wawa technically breaks ground, like Jim mentioned above. There is a sign just like that on a construction site in Bridgewater by Wegmans where a new Wawa is being built.
Does Hackettstown really need another convenience store and/or gas station ? Just askin' .
Yea Trader Joe’s is never going to happen. They only opened up 17stores last year which was their lowest number of new stores in years. They are only going to towns that meet their income and population size requirements which Hackettstown does not.
Jim L -- "if it's to be, it's up to me......" No, I still say they lost on this one although I totally agree with the rationale. That was the first thing that came to mind --- with 145 apartments of people willing to live there.....uh oh, there's a body dump if I ever saw one.... :>) :>( Uh oh, the cost to maintain and secure such a place....
All that said, a trail will exist there, whether formal or not, because I believe owners have to provide access to the stream. This just lowers the usage and risk while increasing the attractiveness for dumping because of less usage. Trade-offs, between costs and safety always but....but....could-a forced the developer to maintain, got state funds for park-land, yada, yada, yada.....it's always a choice, a deal, a negotiation.
Got to admit though, a nice walking path against the Musky would be a grand thing that we don't have. Likewise, any canal path or rail bed usage in this regard is always appreciated by this taxpayer. Man, would I love to see us park-trail the canal bed from Rt 46 to Pt. Murray. Still doable probably IF we desired it. And the Musky from Mickey-D's down Rt57 still has potential.
Next time, reviewing this, knowing this, whatever ---- our planners might be able to negotiate better next time to an ever better improved solution if they audit where this one turned South. I mean if we can't police anything new beyond the WAWAs, new high-density apartments, CVS, and QuickCheks of the world, gonna be a pretty boring neighborhood in the future.
And you usually have a much easier time doing this BEFORE development approval rather than after.
Still --- unless new info comes to light this one is a pretty good job in my book and way much better than most approvals by this planning team like the QuickChek disaster or the Bergen Tool could be way better designs (IMO). I say: Plan-well-done!
It’s kinda of silly that people keep bringing up Trader Joe’s as an option for Hackettstown. Here are the list of towns NJ with a TJ. It is so clear that those towns have absolutely nothing in common with Hackettstown.
Are there any viable options for Hackettstown that are different from what we already have?
The town and BID have been aggressive in pursuing stores like Aldi and Ramsey outdoor to come to town. Both would be great additions and make sense for both them and the town. Whole Foods and Trader Joe’s are not realistic
We'll get a Trader Joe's when we get a BMW dealership. Not going to happen in this town. I think the Salvation Army store says it all.
Got to admit though, a nice walking path against the Musky would be a grand thing that we don't have. Likewise, any canal path or rail bed usage in this regard is always appreciated by this taxpayer
funny you should mention that SD as we are in the process of completing our 2018 Master Plan and I have suggested a walking trail that connects Brook Hollow to Riverfront to Alumni to Cemetery to Budd Lake Bagels along the river to be included in that plan. Now the fun part getting it done!
How will you get the path across 46?
But still no wawa coming soon sign
That is because bug3 for the 30th time WaWa still has not officially started construction. They are doing the storm water upgrades first and have to get the DOT to sign off on the upgrades before WaWa can begin their store construction
"for the 30th time"
bug3: sorry you are talked to like that especially by a "professional"
Yea Bernie it has been explained over and over again that WaWa has not started construction yet
Jim L so what if it has been explained over and over? It isn't what you say -- it is how YOU say it !!!
You people should be grateful you have a Counsel Man willing come on this forum, and give first hand information.
WaWa's gas underground storages tanks were delivered today. Maybe now people will be convinced its being built..... and I know bug3, there is still no coming soon sign up. :)
Does anyone know why there are so many Rain For Rent trailers on the site ? There must be at least 15 or 20 that can be seen from the road and more in back. I was told a long time ago that the property was contaminated and that was why the mall was never finished but never saw any proof that was true. Just curious because I have never seen so many on one job site
I am not trying to start a rumor I said I never saw any proof. I was asking a question.
it sure looks like they are doing injections over there with all the rain for rent trailers and barrels/steel plates. Why else would they have hazardous signs all over the fence? I couldn't find any information on NJDEP's website. Either that or the water table is too high while they put in footings? And I honestly can't believe it's going to have a gas station component. We have at least FIVE gas stations within a 2 mile radius and there's already at least FIVE convenience stores within the same radius.
I figured the water was to wet down the site since it had been so dry until last week. There was initially a lot of dust when they first started working.
Another ugly store/gas station going into Hackettstown. There is so much traffic on that road. I remember the early-mid 90s being much more pleasant, and that's when there was a mall there!
Knowing that the water table is very high in that area and the sheeting they are putting in place, it looks like a dewatering operation to get the tanks put in. Just my professional opinion!!!
I think those are trash pumps to get the water out of the ground for the gas and diesel tanks!
No need for logic here guys. LOL
Let's go with wild speculation and outlandish rumors!! That's a helluva lot more interesting than just plain old facts. LMAO!
Ok the Hackettstown WaWa store has finally been added to the "Coming Soon" list on Wawa's website. Store #8390
Perhaps now Bug3 will be convinced it is actually being built????
I think i saw a sign
You people are not very respectful to Bug3.
AND some of the language used shows what "class" you are from!
Hard to say
They spent 20 years trying to build a mall there (lol)..i am a bit skeptical
METSMAN you should go back and read some of the postings YOU write !!!
This site AND other sites as well.
You are not the only one that says "sharp worded" things.
Then you don't know what I post on other sites just what I post on here. Everyone gets picked on sometimes on here. Grow some thicker skin. Bug3 isn't even complaining, you are. He doesn't need you to stick up for him, since he doesn't appear to care.
There is WAWA sign in front now with a rendering of what will the building will look like.
I wasnt disrespected
I don't know if anyone else "got" your last comment, but frankly it cracked me up a bit. Of course, if anyone watches the movie "Pitch Perfect" you hear that almost ad nauseam... .
On a more personal note (in general), due to QC's bulldozing of the populace in order to make the new monstrosity on Mountain Ave. once the Wawa is built I'll make sure to spend my money there instead.
Frankly I think that's the site that's much more onerous. They could have picked the old Lukoil spot OR even have beat Wawa to the punch and secured that spot, but they didn't. I'll be extremely surprised if that intersection turns out no worse than it is now unless somehow the State DOT's plan for relieving congestion on Main and at the Five Points helps.
Go Wawa, go Wawa... .
"On a more personal note (in general), due to QC's bulldozing of the populace in order to make the new monstrosity on Mountain Ave. once the Wawa is built I'll make sure to spend my money there instead." - - - Phil D.
Agreed! I'm down with that and will happily spend my money at the new WaWa rather than the new QC, It's a good way to send a message. I'm not happy with the way the town railroaded this in over the concerns and input of the public.
Is pending road construction project to connect Route 46 and new WaWa site going to be completed now? Or it was cancelled?
There is no “pending”rte 46 connection project. That was shot down years ago. Not on Hackettstown’s end. We were all for it. The town of Washington shot it down. Both towns needed to approve it since it would have gone through both towns and they didn’t want it
Does anyone know if this site will be a 24 hour station? That would be great since currently I think the only one is on 517.
"The town of Washington shot it down"
Just for clarity it is Washington Township (in Morris County).
Starting to look like a WaWa
"I don't need no WaWa"----close enough
One of my top 3 George Harrison Tunes. The version on the concert for Bangladesh is great.
Anyone know of an opening date yet? Website just says fall 2018. Outside is starting to get cleaned up and have seen lights on at night so I would think maybe a couple weeks or so?
I hope they open soon, so I can get a “gobbler”, which is basically a turkey dinner on a roll. They only have it during this time of year, leading up to Thanksgiving.
The site looks good. I'm eager to see how the traffic flow works. I look forward to the opening.
I still can't imagine how difficult to navigate, dangerous and congested the area will be on and around Bell's Lane once that monstrosity Quick Chek gets squeezed into that now declining residential area. Just try to imagine a facility similar to the Wawa at that corner. We're doomed.
If it's one thing Hackettstown has proved, they are in desperate need of gas stations, greasy fast food, and urgent cares. Great job BID. Nothing like a diverse town.
yea this project had nothing to do with the BID, but nice try on the dig.
The owner of the site found a tenant to build on his land... darn that pesky free enterprise where we let landlords find their own tenants.
And I agree with Greg, this site looks good and it looks like it belongs there. Fits nicely in that empty lot and the flow will be ok. Where as the QC will look very forced and crammed into that site.
So Jim L. whats going to go in the back of this WaWa property?
I remember when the back of the CVS property had plans to build. Years later this is just an eyesore of dirt mounds that have grown over with weeds on them.
Great planning of someone?
"and the flow will be ok."
...as long as no one tries to turn left onto Mountain Ave. Especially during rush hours.
It's a shame they didn't think to put an exit in behind Applebees.
"It's a shame they didn't think to put an exit in behind Applebees."
We did. The only way to turn left out of WaWa is to go behind Applebee's to the traffic light..
sorry this is rough, but here is an view on how the site will look. the road has already been connected to Applebee's parking lot and you will exit there to turn left onto Mountain Ave
No, you will be able to turn left into WaWa from Mountain ave as there are 2 lanes in that direction. You will not be able to turn left out of wawa directly. you will have to go behind Applebees to traffic light.
So if it's not one way going into the Wawa then how do you expect to enforce the new traffic pattern?
To answer your question Metsman, the exit onto Mountain Ave is angled and curbed to drive to traffic to only turn right. So you would have to jump a curb to turn left. Driving by it tonight the curb is not as high as I would want and as long as I would like so we will have to monitor it to see if it’s enough to stop people from turning left. If not then the developer might have to come back and raise the curb and extend it to be more dramatic
Jim L: the diagram you posted shows trees and shrubs all along the front of WAWA, also no arrows showing a turn in. Is what is being implemented different than the drawing?
What I posted was in the development plan for the site since that is what I had access to at my fingertips to show JR how the flow will go. I don’t have the final site plan realidly available to me right now. When I get home I will look for to get you a better understanding of what it will look like
The site looks great. Looking forward to the opening. Thanks for all your efforts with these posts. Some people will never be happy …..
I am not sure if this was already posted, my apologies if it was. This weekend, I heard from a hostess at TapHouse that WaWa is opening on the 21st and giving out free coffee the first four days. FYI
I for one am really happy to see Wawa come to town. It'll give quick chek a run for their money and I'm sure will be good for us to have them compete directly more.
I agree. When is Walmart going to get into the fast food and convenience store business? I can see Mountain Avenue now, "Walmart Burgers", "Walmart Fried Chicken", "Quick Walmart", "Taco Walmart", "Walmart's House of Pancakes" and "Hong Kong Walmart". Paradise!
3 days ago
At least big chain stores maintain the property and overall appearance of the establishment. Most of the crap on Main St. looks like a front for an illegal business or trafficking operation. And since the WaWa offers gas, coffee, lottery, sandwiches and cheap smokes that satisfies most people's reason to stop. The gas will be cheaper than most places so you can say goodbye to the Raceway's Cash/Credit ripoff pricing.
The only competition will be a Quick Chek.
But by all means support whatever place you'd like.
Mom and pop businesses fuel the local economy and add personality and character in their physical presentation of store fronts. Main Street is a fairly quaint grouping of local owners trying to make a living in an ever increasing world of big box stores and concrete jungles like Mountain Avenue. I enjoy and frequent as many mom/pop stores as often as possible. WaWa is an eyesore and will not get our patronage.
So...I expect to see you all there daily!
There's nothing wrong with a combination of both local and chains. And let's not forget, while Wawa is now HUGE, they're local-ish and not national. (PA) Wawa is generally one of the good ones - they pay workers well and treat them well ( https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Wawa-Reviews-E3041.htm) and as Don said, their gas pricing is fair to cheap. Plus, it's another place open 24/7
They may take away some business, I'll certainly go there over quick chek sometimes even though its further because honestly, it's hard to find a good cheesesteak in this town but Wawa does a good job.
But Wawa can't compete with many of the amazing places we have in town, like James on Main, or Enjoy Creperie or Monchys, and with 30 burgers coming to my end of town I doubt I'd justify headed to Wawa over that. And now Marley's has over 200 flavors of wings!
The places that run risk of losing business are Quick Chek (Everything), sunrise (most everything except gas), Raceway (Gas), McDonalds (Only direct competition there would be breakfast, everything else is pretty different offerings) and maybe Sub Shack (Subs/lunch), but I suspect their loyal base and more than fair pricing will keep them around for a long time. Out of all of them, I'd only feel sorry for Sub Shack should they suffer any negative.
Now if you older generations could get on the killing-applebees train, that would be great.
Plus, I'm sure Wawa will be paying their share in taxes. I believe the price tag for the land was $3M.
I know this too, some of us from South Jersey who live in the area now will definitely come into town for Wawa. That was a common bonding experience for those of us at Centenary from South Jersey.
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