Central Air Conditioning

Hey All, We're thinking about putting in Central A/C. We've got a couple of quotes and all the contractors stated we wouldn't need more than a 1.5 ton unit. Question: which brand???? There are so many and I've read so many reviews that I am no better off on which to choose. Some say Lennox, some say Bryant, some say Trane....on and on and on. I realize installation is the most important. Getting a reputable contractor in to install is key. Any thoughts on which brand???
thanks for your help!

Confused Confused
May '16

Did you see this already? It has info on brands:

http://www.hackettstownlife.com/forum/718222


Yes, I looked at the thread. We have oil with baseboard heating and are just putting in central air. We replaced the boiler about 7 years ago. I have quotes for 1.5 ton Lennox 14ACX and Bryant 16 seer from Region/Budd Oil. I know how the units are installed are important. You can have a top of the line unit but if it's not installed properly you're just wasting money. Thank you for your help, I sincerely appreciate it!

Confused Confused
May '16

I would at least give Gallagher's a call. They replaced our furnace and central air about 18 months ago with a Goodman. It's been outstanding and we don't have a single complaint. It's efficient, has a 10 year warranty, and Gallagher's did a great job on the installation.

Mr. Resident Mr. Resident
May '16

You can also call Service Experts (Fras Air)

Resident55
May '16

I put mine in when I was remodeling the house in 2006 - best investment and was easier b/c walls were open, etc. TCM maintains mine...didn't do installation. The installers were subs for the plumbing/heating contractors and put in unit that they always deal with...not sure of brand. I wouldn't get too stuck on the brand - need to have vents/drops and installation done appropriate for the space/house, etc.

SS2cats SS2cats
May '16

Installed a Goodman 13 years ago. Never has failed. Done by ICE from Columbia.


Goodman!


We recently had Central Air put in and York was the brand used by Esposito's Heating (908-300-3714) right here in Hackettstown. We will soon be using him to convert to gas, we currently have oil. Randy did a great job! http://www.espositosheat-ac.com/

Wendy PK Wendy PK
May '16

Pay more and get a higher SEER unit. The power savings pays for itself in a short while. Do some research and do the math.

http://www.ac-heatingconnect.com/seer-101/

Aliti Aliti
May '16

Trane is the premium brand but Lennox is good too. Actually, little difference between all of them from a mechanical perspective. Try to get neighbor recommendations. Who is still trouble free 10 years later and had a good install and contractor service with any issues after the install. As mentioned, very important to size AC and furnace properly, not too large, not too small, just the right size based upon calculations...


Thank you to everyone for their advice! Has anyone had any work done by Region, All Tech or All Temps? I tried several others in town but never received a call back.
thanks again!

Confused Confused
May '16

Confused - Do a Forum Search on those names. There are at least a dozen threads on what company to use. When I had my whole HVAC replaced year before last, I got quotes from Air Group who was already maintaining my system, Schulaka who I already use for plumbing, and TGM. Ended up with TGM and they did an excellent job.

As for brands, Carrier is tops of the tops, and Trane is right up there. But you pay for them, and the other brands are still very good. Generally good value there because you can get a more efficient unit with a higher SEER at the same or lower price as the top. I ended up with Lenox as one of the best of the second tier brands but still no more cost than something like Bryant. That was the same end result as the other thread I pointed out.


Thank you GC. Were installing a new system, duct work and all. I called and emailed TGM but have not received a response from them. We were looking at two units, Lennox 14ACX and Bryant variable speed 16 seer. However, reading the reviews on these two systems they may not be the best choice.
thank you GC

Confused Confused
May '16

When I did mine, one of my concerns was locating the air handler in the attic. Was nice to find an internal raceway to run the plumbing to avoid the external run on the side of the house using a vertical gutter to hide the piping. Just didn't want that.

Second, I most certainly over engineered the units so the down side is probably use a bit more electric. The upside is since we are not home 24/7, when we get home we can cool down very quickly. Not to mention we rarely run all day long even in the hottest weather.

Third, I added a lot of ceiling insulation, well over the govt. specs for the area for R-value. Added a small thermostatically controlled attic fan and the combination really lowers my bill by blowing out the hot attic air and shielding the house from needing to cool heat coming down from above or cold leaving from below. Noticeable drop in electric bill. If you do this be sure to put a switch you can easily reach for the fan since in the spring and fall you might want to take advantage of a little heat in the attic.

Lastly, and I have no scientific proof, I use one of those inside/outside weather stations that monitors humidity. I actually cool my house based more on humidity than temperature. It's amazing how cool a few points of humidity feels independent of the temperature. If it's 90 out, I might be at 88 inside as long as the humidity is low and it feels quite cool.

Cool luck and check for rebates, you never know what might be out there. http://www.njcleanenergy.com/residential/programs/cooladvantage/central-air-conditioners

strangerdanger strangerdanger
May '16

Region Oil had installed and maintained our Carrier central air. We are not happy with either one. I would speak with TGM. I'm very surprised you did not get a call back. We have use them and are very pleased with them.

Good luck!!!

Joe C Joe C
May '16

Scotty & Son does the best work around.
Billy Green will get the job done.

jersey boy
May '16

Hey Joe C, what were the reason(s) you did not like Region or Carrier? I thought Carrier was top of the line. Thank you for your response.

Confused Confused
May '16

If you are installing a complete system ( say perhaps an air handler and coil in the overhead attic ) with new ductwork and ceiling air outlets, any of the systems are generally equal as a match.

Now, if you are planning to just add a coil on top your existing furnace, ( called an Add On in the field ), then Be Careful that the furnace is capable to supply the correct air flow through the added coil. Especially with an oil fired furnace. The oil heat exchanger air flow pattern is different than the air flow pattern on a gas fired furnace.
That usually requires that the new coil be raised higher to improve equal airflow pattern through the evaporator coil.

Lennox would be my first choice of brand.... stay away from Carrier.

Embryodad Embryodad
May '16

I have an issue where the 2nd floor doesn't get cool unless I turn the 1st floor into a meat locker. Would installing a 2nd thermostat upstairs help? maybe close the registers on the 1st floor and force everything upstairs? The system is as old as the house, which was built right around the turn of the millennium... is it just time to replace the whole thing? It runs great and throws perfectly cold air; it just doesn't seem to be enough.

It gets especially hot in the kids bedrooms, which is going to be a problem in the heat of the summer, since I can't get them to go to sleep when the temperature is comfortable, lol... I can't wait until it's still light at 9pm and the temp in their room is in the mid 80s...

ianimal ianimal
May '16

ianimal - Try closing the registers first. That potentially is about as cheap a fix as you can get if it's just a matter of the distribution. Next it could be the duct work is either blocked or not sealed. You can get USB flexible cameras to see if that's the case or have one of the companies with those do it for you. After that, figure out how long it is for the air to get to those hot bedrooms. If it's a distance thing and the air flow is weak there, then with the duct work eliminated as a cause you might consider something with the system. It might not be the whole thing though, it might just be a blower in that case. But lots to investigate before you do a real overhaul.


GC is right....

As a test....just run the fan, not necessary to run the cooling. Just turn the switch on the thermostat to fan / on position.
Then close off the registers on the first floor. The air should be screaming out the second floor registers by now. If no noticeable increase, there may be dampers closed off. Did you look for dampers? They are usually round metal plates with an adjustment slot or handle that protrudes outside the pipe right after the main duct.

Another thing to note, is # 1 ....there may be a slide damper inside the register rough- in box itself.
Take off the register / diffuser, and look to see if there are slide gate dampers in the outlet.
#2.... make sure you have registers for cooling. It may be you have the original heat only outlets registers. They must be changed to a Heating / Cooling type; adjustable type. Heat....direct air flow Down across the floor. Cooling....direct airflow Up!

Embryodad Embryodad
May '16

Confused,

Im not sure why you would not have received a response from us. Our phone is answered 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. We would be very happy to come out and give you a free estimate! Please either call (908) 852-6355 or send an email to tgmelectric@yahoo.com

TGM Services TGM Services
May '16

Re: Central Air Conditioning

Uncle Milty says...

Yeah, try the dampers, can try the registers first but depending on your grates, may no be as good a test.

Are your second floor registers in the floor, attic or walls? Are they round or square? Are the ducts metal or foil?

Could be three issues: ducts, dampers, or heat.

If ducts are leaking, you are losing air no matter how much you pump out. Otherwise, to get more air upstairs and less downstairs, use the dampers.

There's a "machine" you can use to cover each register, one at a time. Might be easier to hire a pro than buy the machine. See pic. Looks kinda like a clothes hamper where you put the open end over the register and it measures the air pressure coming out. That' how you would adjust the dampers perfectly. Plus you should be able to roughly guestimate gauge how much damper turn would add/delete more air to adjust going forward after you return the machine. Bear in mind that every time you adjust a damper, the other pressures may change as well.

To test duct leak however you would need to either guess on full bore (are they all the same pressure or is one weak) or be exact by putting a constant pressure in at one end and measuring at the other. Google it but I doubt you will do it.

My house is unique and I have some radical duct work and registers including one that's three times normal size and blows almost a 1/4 ton out from a peak in my house. Other floor registers will do a Monroe if you are standing over in a dress (no, Uncle Milty has not tested this). So I have some double sized ducts and a lot of damper settings.

Next, heat obviously is the enemy. First, close those blinds where the sun is glaring through. If you have sky lights, get shades. In my house, on a 30-degree winter day, my furnace/stoves shut off at 10 or 11 am and don't come on until the sun begins to set. The sun makes that much difference when the windows are in the right place.

Then, are the ducts insulated or can you insulate them. Foil ducts have some insulation already, metal maybe. Probably more minor an effect except if your ducts are in your attic. Not sure it's worth the time except for attic ducts.

Then, as I noted before, you might want to add insulation in your attic and an thermostatically controlled attic fan. Year 2000 house might be to the low side of the R-value specs, if bats are used you might have shift, who knows. Just take it beyond the R-value spec'd by the govt. You'll get the bene in the winter too.

If your attic has no fan, it's a heat box depending on passive ridge vents and soffits to cool. Not likely on a still humid day with a warm night to follow. No matter how much cold air you put upstairs, it won't cool the attic and the attic will continue to bleed radiant heat into your ceiling making your first floor frigid and the second floor stuffy. Thermostat upstairs will solve the 2nd floor problem and make the 1st floor worse not to mention killing your electric bill. Attic fan might run you $50-$100 a year IF they ran full time, the fan label will tell you. Small 12-inch or so should do but be sure to put on/off switch where you can reach it since you may want some extra attic heat in the spring, fall, and winter. I also added those shutters that open with the fan so I can tell its on or off from the ground and nothing gets in when the fan is off. Plus I put a couple of intake vents at the far ends at the peaks to increase flow, doubt you will need that. I don't have active soffits. I even actually built a "tube" on the intake side of my fan because I was basically only sucking air from the ridge vents and the walls and I wanted to get a bit better direction from the soffits and peak vents. You probably won't need any of those additions but you can test after you put the fan in.

I was running a 10-degree difference sometimes between the upstairs and the downstairs. End result of this work was I have less heat bleeding in from the ceiling and less heat in the attic to bleed in. First thing I noticed was on 95-degree days and high 90-s nights, my AC turns on and off, it never stays on forever. The second floor is never stuffy and usually well within 5 degrees of the first floor. On most days they are within a degree. So less electric and more comfortable.

My attic ducts are insulated foil but I buried them in the other insulation as well to better insulate the air.

Hope that helps.

strangerdanger strangerdanger
May '16

Hi TGM, yes, I got a response yesterday and have you coming in to give us an estimate. Thank you very much and I look forward to your visit.

Confused Confused
May '16

Embryodad, I'm confused... the registers are all IN the floor... everything gets directed up.

Thanks to you and GC for the advice.

(Edit) Thanks SD... lots of info. Yes, I have an attic fan on a thermostat. I also have a buddy in my poker league who is an HVAC guy so he might be able to help me out with the equipment you mentioned. I don't like to impose on my friends' professional expertise if I think I can handle it myself, but maybe this is the exception to the rule.

ianimal ianimal
May '16

That's good then that they are floor registers.

Keep us posted as to the outcome.

Embryodad Embryodad
May '16

OK, then leaks (doubtful) and dampers are probably the key except you may want to check that r-value in the attic and the temperature that the fan is set for (and that it's actually doing the job). For example, does it turn off in the cool of the night. If not, it's probably drafting air out but not necessarily the hot air.

Beyond the dampers, I am guessing your attic is still too hot.

strangerdanger strangerdanger
May '16

Ok, one final question, my home is a single floor with five rooms, kitchen, living room, bathroom and two bedrooms. I don't want a fan in the bathroom for the A/C. Why would I need 9 dampered supply air branches??
thanks again!

Confused Confused
May '16

Depends on the size/layout of the rooms, I guess.

In my old house, I had 2 vents in the living room, 2 in the kitchen, and 2 in the master bedroom. Other bedrooms had one each, and I added one to the master bathroom.

That's 9 total in a 1200 square foot house.

Mark Mc. Mark Mc.
May '16

Confused: may want to reconsider the bathroom. Sure, I understand warm BRs are nice, but AC knocks down humidity which adds to the feeling of heat in the house.

Have you decided whether to vent up (from basement) or vent down from the attic?

strangerdanger strangerdanger
May '16

Hi All, I have 792 sq. feet of living space. We're vented down from the attic. To me it seems overkill to have 9 vents. I do not want a vent in the bathroom but I was told if I didn't have enough air flow that I could burn out the system???

Confused Confused
May '16

I'm sure there are nuances in various installations... but physics pretty much dictates if you have a fan blowing, say 500 CFM, you're going to get 500 CFM coming out the vents whether you have 5 of them or 10 of them.

The difference is, the fewer the vents, the faster the airflow out of each of them. That could be good and bad. Good in that the air won't be heat soaking in the attic as long, but bad in that you'll feel very discrete blasts of cold air in very local spots under the vents. I think with more vents you can "even it out" a little bit... comfortably cool everywhere.

Just have to find that balance point and size all of the various components properly.

Mark Mc. Mark Mc.
May '16

I agree that more is probably better. You probably want as much air moving around to clear all the inside the heat asap. There's force and then there's flow, both are important. Otherwise, you might cool the house, the bathroom heat slithers out, and you kick on even though 80% of the house is cool enough.

See above re attic insulation, fans et al. You may want to improve that at some point down rhe road if not sufficient. Made a huge difference here.

Strangerdanger Strangerdanger
May '16

Thanks to everyone for their comments. I really got an education with all of this information! I sincerely appreciate everyone's help. Only one contractor recommended 9 dampered supply air branches, which thanks to everyone's explanation, makes sense. I was thinking about Region doing the job but now I'm thinking TGM.
Thanks again!!

Confused Confused
May '16

I'm thinking about installing either the Lennox XC14 or Carrier Performance 24ACC in our home. Any thoughts???

Confused Confused
May '16

Confused - I had a similar choice between Air Group offering a Carrier, and TGM offer the Lennox. The Carrier I was offered is their model even higher than Performance, the Infinity series. If you have the extra money and want a smaller unit, and are going to go two stage, then the Carrier would make sense. The whole two stage raises the price points and I decided against that. So for me the Lennox won out and I'm happy so far.


Thanks GC. Actually the Carrier Performance 24ACC 1-1/2 ton unit was quote almost $900 lower by Region than the Lennox XC14. Any thoughts?

Confused Confused
May '16

Confused - The Carrier I was discussing that's so much higher is the Infinity. I don't suggest the lower end Carrier from their quote.


We are having TGM do the installation of our central air. Given the size of our row house, ~792 sq feet living space, we decided to go with the Lennox Merit 14ACX with a variable air handler.
thank you to everyone for your help and advice!

Confused Confused
May '16

Nice Information!

Clarice Roberts Clarice Roberts
Feb '17

Came home to water all over the laundry room floor where our central air and water heater are also housed. After cleaning up we saw the water was coming up out of a pvc pipe on the side o the central air unit. Called handy man we use he said it could be due to a clogged condensation fan.. He was out of town. Anyone know how we can unclog it ourselves? I don,t even know how urgent this is , he said he d be back tomorrow afternoon. Any ideas ? Can it wait that long?

stressed out stressed out
Jul '18

Your condisate drain is just clogged. Easy way is to pour some bleach down the tube or just get a long piece of wire and work it around to clear the clog. Happened to us too. Easy to fix yourself. Good luck.

LJRubi LJRubi
Jul '18

Yep, as the air flows over the evaporator (the cooling coils) the humidity condenses out (just like it will on any other much colder surface). This drips down into a tray with a PVC pipe leading "somewhere"... in my old house (blower in the attic) it went into the rain gutter. In my current house (blower in the crawlspace) it just pokes through the wall to the outside.

If that pipe gets clogged or jostled so that it won't drain via gravity, the tray will overflow but there's no feedback to the AC to shut off.

Mark Mc. Mark Mc.
Jul '18

Thanks . I guess I ll try putting a hanger down the pvc pipe and wiggle it around. hopefully it will unclog. thanks again.

stressed out stressed out
Jul '18

I just had new central air installed by home depot. They use pro energy
to do the job and reem product. costed 15k did the job in 2days just got done.
very happy I did it and so fast.


15k, wow, you must have a big house.

kb2755 kb2755
Jul '18

no its a ranch 3 bedrooms


Lee, I think you should have shopped around. I had a 3-BR home converted from oil to gas, converted from baseboard to forced air, and had a new furnace and A/C system installed, all for less than $15K.

JerseyWolf JerseyWolf
Jul '18

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