Liberty township
On June 16th the Liberty Township Land Use Board will be reviewing an application that may have far reaching implications on the future of farming in Great meadows. All farmers, residents, and interested persons are welcome to attend.
Farmer 
2 cents
CT 
Brendan 
Caged Animal If Farmer knows anything, I wish he would come back on and say what is going to happen. Anyone that I have asked either doesn't know anything or only knows that a couple of corporations are going to make a ton of money off the suckers in Warren County. But nobody can tell me anymore.
I am told it will be shoved down our throats, so be prepared to gag.
PilottoCoPilot Google Roes Island Independence Wetlands, articles were on NJ.com from last Fall.
I gather most the property in question is in Independence Twsp.
Jo Anne After reading a bunch of the articles, it sounds like PSE&G needs to build some wetlands because they are destroying some someplace else (part of a zero sum strategy). It's cheaper here because, well, it is. It's also easy to convert that area back to wetlands because it sounds like it started out that way.
It's funny, usually people are fighting development, in this case we're fighting wetlands. But honestly, it will negatively impact the neighboring properties, it will increase the mosquito load, and if it goes through it'll put pressure on other farms in that area by companies in the same situation (developing someplace else and need to reinstate wetlands someplace else).
Am I wrong? I'm going to try and make that meeting...
Since the great meadows were wetlands until drained/ditched 100 years ago, I don't think this would have a particularly negative impact?
The issue is that the area has had 100 year to "correct" itself and become what it is today. Do you want to roll back the clock and have 25 years of 3x's the mosquitoes? This is corporate BS mixed with political BS combining to satisfy a law with positive intentions. It's "crossing a T" because they (PSEG) have to.
Except that it was drained to allow for farming, so if you're still farming it'll negatively impact you. Add to that the fact that they want to create a mosquito swamp and I'll be over in the "NO" column.
Trimmer's Island is a pretty big piece I think so has anyone found a map?
It is too bad that Independence accepted addition mosquito habitat, seems mucky enough already. I could see where neighboring muckland farmers might not desire additional wetlands.
mistergoogle From NJ.com:
http://www.nj.com/warrenreporter/index.ssf/2014/11/mayor_and_residents_question_w.html
"Despite Freese's claims that a 2-acre vernal pool added on to an existing 3-acre vernal pool at the property would not negatively impact the mosquito population, Jennifer Gruener of the Warren County Mosquito Commission said the current plan would require extensive treatment.
'We are currently treating them onsite, that's correct, but there is prolific mosquito production area and it would be an extremely expensive area to treat,' she said.
By intentionally building a habitat in the vernal pond, including shrub scrub, Gruener said that the area would attract mosquitos that carry Wes Nile virus that don't exist there now.
She believes that the existing 3-acre treatment area would expand to a minimum of 20 acres that would require treatment three to five times per year resulting in roughly $3,300, not including inspection costs, for Warren County taxpayers."
I heard they are going to add a boogie man too my friend said so and he's gona raise taxes
Even without a pool, they are turning the area into proper wetlands. Are you implying that somehow will keep the mosquito population status quo?
It's sad that we would need to "go to meetings" to keep something as idiotic as building mosquito breeding around from happening... This should be a no brainer. It's not like it's approving a variance for some business that will bring a positive (tax revenue) to the area and could therefor stand for some debate. What positive effect could this possibly have?
If this passes, it will only be a matter of time before the next 50 acre tract and then the next tract go the same way. This is an easy, and cheap way for PSE&G to complete their obligations.
Going to meetings and keeping informed, is the only way to have your opinions impact the township land use board, and the town council.
Farmer how does this affect you?
How does this affect anyone ?
They are not ! Making a swamp there basically planting some trees bushes puting a fence up so deer don't eat them and walking away
Not knowing what the application is actually for and what the current regulations are, I wonder if the board can deny it based on the potential mosquito problem and the perceived idea that more land owners will want to do the same. If they meet the criteria/zoning regulations, they have to approve.
If the majority of the lot is in Independence and they already approved it, will it matter if Liberty approves or not?
music gal So far I've read plenty of arguments as to why this will cause problems. Is there some benefit? I mean, they are looking for some kind of variance or zoning adjustment, so the real question shouldn't be "will this hurt (us)?" It should be "how will this benefit (us) enough to justify altering the rules ?" Usually for a business it's justified by increased tax revenue, or convenience, or some side deal with the town to appease people (the park that's supposed to be incorporated with the Bergen tool site). Maybe I'm missing it, but all I can read or think of are negatives.
There is a fair chance I'm going to be trudging home with my wife and 2 day old "fresh from the oven" son from the hospital ok Tuesday evening (or maybe we will still be in the hospital, who knows). But I'm still going to try my damnedest to get to this meeting. Who knows, maybe they will explain the untold benefits of mosquito farming, but otherwise I'm going to be pissed that this wasn't flat out rejected.
Hopefully lots if people show up. Hey, if you're in independence and wished they had voted this down, you come too and tell them that. This is just stupid.
Perhaps there's no vernal pool anymore (got that link?) but when the company making money says "no mosquitos" and "Jennifer Gruener of the Warren County Mosquito Commission said the current plan would require extensive treatment" at the time the pool was still in ----- I feel a slight pin prick of distrust followed by a raging fever.
And when the advocates, who are making the money, say "Farming is not disappearing on this property," Freese said. "The harvesting of trees would not be permitted... " somehow I remember that tall trees and farming seem mutually exclusive.
Yeah, this is probably a good thing not to do even if it is NIMBY for the townships unless we are prepared to fund the bug treatments. And yes, once they do it, you can just find out how much land is owned by this llc to know how big it ultimately will get.
Just a reminder for all Great Meadows residents. This meeting is tomorrow at 7:30. Please try to attend.
Application denied. Great decision and congratulation to land use board members. Be vigilant they may (will) be back.
Gadfly Farmer,
Any more details? The reason it was denied? Will independence still get their voted share of land used by pseg or is the whole project dead?
Not really Gadfly...at least not to the farmers, land owners, citizens and board members who stayed at the meeting until after midnight! Thank you to the board members for their time and fair consideration regarding this matter. This was most certainly an important issue, one that when discussed and pulled apart on a small scale gives light to what can happen, in time, on a larger scale and that is very, very scary.
Gardenfish Scarey that a private landowner would want to take its land, which was historically wetlands but was ditched and partially drained, and voluntarily restore it to a more naturally functioning wetland? I'm sorry, but that's not scarey. The only local approval that was needed, according to the article I read, was a "soil removal permit application zoning variance". That sounds like the reporter is confused. Anyone know what approval they actually need?
It will affect everyone at some point. Vegetables from the Muck go to Shop-Rite's and other stores all over Northern NJ. If one small plot of farm land is sold for reasons other than farming, it's a loss to us all. Once it's done, it will continue until the last farm is sold.
Farm land is taxed and sold at a lower rate than residential or commercial land. Once these large corporations find out, they'll buy up the cheaper land first. Send their lawyers to the meeting's to continually repeat the same positives for 5 hours in the hope that they become true or to wear down the meeting attendants. Then take care of it for 5 years and let it become a multi-floral rose producer no one can use. Plus they were going to remove black, glacial soil, which has been illegal for every farmer except Kelsey who has a mining permit. How was the DEP going to allow that? Were they going to donate it or sell it to offset costs?
Farms also pay salaries, taxes, plus buy food, fuel and electricity. Farms create local jobs at farm stands and markets. Finally the feed people. That's much ado about everything. If that can't be seen, then I guess we'll pay even more for our fresh veggies somewhere down the line.
Good points poacher. The muck will be "remediated" to forested wetlands and the upland farmland will be covered with solar panels.
Farmer, you need to remember its the farmers who are leasing their land for these solar fields. I'm all for keeping the "muck the "muck" but solar is not the problem here.
JD4020 JD4020, that's only true for land a farmer owns. Most farmland is leased to a farmer. He seems to be worried about solar installation leases or wetlands restoration consuming more and more of the available farmland. I think he's right to be worried. Given that farming is generally low margin business, you need quantity to keep the operation going. Start cutting out available farmland and replacing it with solar installations or worse yet wetlands and you're just pushing local farming even closer to extinction.
The wetlands restoration would be much worse than the solar installation though, because at least you can rip the solar crap out once the lease is up. Once that property became wetlands, it would be hell on earth to touch it or anything close to it. Just look at the issues NJT was having trying to extend the Lackawanna cut-off. They had to jump through hoops to disturb some wetlands that were only created from excavating projects to build the line in the first place!
Honestly, it's a smart move by PSE&G (and/or whomever else), the land there is cheap, what they got selling the soil they removed would probably pay for the project, and then they could go out and destroy whatever original wetlands they need for whatever project they have going on. Thankfully for us, it was shot down.
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