Space Farms is a NIGHTMARE!
I just visited space farms and feel i have to tell people not to go there. i am not saying they do not take care of their animals, i am simply saying the animals living conditions are completely unacceptable! all of the large animals, i.e. lions, tigers, bears, big cats are in small caged areas of dirt and high growing weeds with little or no shade and no water to play in. two big bears that live together are living in a really small enclosure on concrete. i do not know how they stay in business. it is really sad:(
i feel so bad reading this..two years ago i went to lake george and visited the zoo up there.well it looked more like a small farm and they had a bear in a small cage and all she could do was walk back and fourth,to make things worst her cubs were in a cage accross from her,she seem really stressed and kept banging her head against the cage.i knew those conditions did'nt seem right,so i left!!
I took my kids when they were small and it was comical. The place was the same from when I was 5 years old! LOL... I doubt it has changed in the 8 years since I took them. They obviously invest little money in the place. Go to Turtle Back Zoo. Much nicer place for kids.
One way to help is to be HEARD!
Call the SPCA or Humane Society anytime you see animal neglect or less than ideal situations. Be specific - give dates, times, and examples. Request a follow-up phone call. If you don't hear back - call them again. Be persistant.
Things don't change if you turn your back on them. Maybe your one phone call won't change the world, but it could raise an eybrow. Or maybe your complaint will mirror another complaint that could lead to an investigation. You never know unless you at least try.
the Philly Zoo was the same. The animals pacing back and forth was really bad. You could see the animals were panicked. Never again
dragonfly, i actually wrote to 2 wildlife reserves to find out what i could do to help theses animals. funny but not funny is deer were literally kept right next to mountain lions with only a chain link fence between them. they could have been nose to nose at any time. i am no expert but doesn't seem ideal.
What about contacting a newpaper to do an article on Space Farms or a news station. Shed some limelight on the poor living conditions for these animals and I agree with dragonfly contact the SPCA AND the Human Society. Spread the word about those living conditions. Sorry venting here, it just makes me see red. You wouldn't see humans living in cages that way, why do they have animals living in poor conditions.
The Animal Protection League of NJ might be able to help or get involved, also.
Sorry to hear it's so upsetting. It's such a shame, because it's also supposed to be educational.
Good for you, mom of 3, for DOING something to HELP those poor animals.
Granny Mo - that's a fantastic idea. Don't we have someone on this forum that works in a paper?
Metsman - you never cease to amaze with your subpar responses. So your input here is to just go to another zoo and let the animals at this particular zoo continue to suffer? You must be a real gem to know in real life. WOW! It's appalling how you can just turn your head on their suffering and go happily skipping to another zoo and not think twice about it. The World According to YOU is not a very nice place I'm sad to say.
JA-Really? I thought Philly zoo was quite nice with grassy, shady areas that seemed large enough. How long ago were you there? Was it before the new big cat area, I have only been there since this area was opened.
I agree. I had visited there with my kids many yrs ago and was very upset when we saw the conditions for these animals. He should have been shut down long long ago!
Let me say that these places are inspected and I dont think that they are out of the range of what is allowed or they would have been closed long ago . but the old managers may have passed on and new people take there place . call the proper dept to report the conditions you have witnessed
Support the cape may zoo
The Cape May Zoo IS really nice, but I'm really concerned about deer being right next to felines. Wouldn't that be torturous for both of them? It seems cruel and unusual. This must be reported.
This place isn't new im sure your not the only one who feels this way. Im sure someone has also already contacted these groups and obviously nothing has been done. So maybe there is nothing 'illegal' should i say. Its sad but its highly unlikely anything will come from this.
well i did call the SPCA and lodged a complaint but they are already aware of space farms and there is nothing to warrant a charge of animal cruelty. maybe they will go check it out again. oh well:( i am waiting to hear back from a few places. sad thing is there are probably tons of zoo/farms across the country that a way worse than space farms. my next step is reaching out to a celebrity animal activist who has clout and resources to money who might be able to help.
That's the ticket, mom of three : ) Good job in being proactive and at least trying to do something about it. Brava!!!
A zoo is just that animals locked behind cages. Of course some will have better conditions then others, but the idea is still the same. It is far from an ideal and/or natural habitat for any of the animals.
I have not been to Space Farms in a few years, but I too agree it hasn't changed much since i was a kid. I am sure they have been inspected many times over the course of the years that they have been open and honestly have not (to my knowledge) had a problem yet with the way they run things or how the animals are treated. If you were unhappy with the conditions then by all means do what you think is right, but I'm not so sure you will get too far.
happy2bhere, not sure why the harsh response toward Metsman, he wasn't the only one that responded with a better place to go. How can he turn his head to animals suffering? really? First of all he said he hadn't even been there in 8 yrs. and honestly the original poster didn't even go to that extreme. They said they were not treated badly, just thought the conditions were unacceptable in their eyes.
JRT - mostly because what the OP described was horrible and the response given was like; really? who gives a rat's bottom - it's comical that it hasn't changed in so many years. so what if the animals are suffering? just go to another zoo - LOL. I found that offensive. Do you mind?
i absolutely love animals!! i like zoos but i think of them as a necessary evil. lots of the animals there are there now because they were either born in to captivity or were rescued. animals are no longer being captured from the wild to supply zoos. i am not stating facts, just what i have learned over time from reading, etc. if an animal has to be kept in captivity then it should be the best it can be. space farms is waaaaayyyyy below par. i am going to keep on trying to do something. not sure what that will be!!
Do I mind? No, not at all. I just thought it was odd that you called him out on it when he wasn't the only one with a response that offered a better place to go. judging from the other thread, I'm guessing your not a Metsman fan? lol!
At the moment, you guess correct, JRT. But, the other thread notwithstanding, I just found his response flip and callouse. That's all.
Actually, anyone who would like to see Space Farms closed down would do well to follow the advice of Metsman. If the zoo is not in violation of regulations, the only way it will close is if nobody visits. It's called capitalism and competition. Works all the time.
Or we can just get all emotional and say that a government agency should be called or "something should be done about this". All on the basis that some people think they know what animals are thinking and feeling.
I too think Space Farms is gross. If you want a nice place to go visit Turtle Back Zoo.
The give the min. of care to stay on the line of the law for neglect and abuse its sad but the only thing that is going to change it is if people stop going
i posted about space farms on this forum to warn people and to try and stop people from going in the future. but obviously i can not control people! if i lived closer to the farm i could probably take more action, but i don't. so i will do what i can. i have contacted a few places but have not heard back from anyone yet. i did lodge a complaint with the SPCA, which handles that area. there are actually no violations there. so i will keep trying.
hey realitychickcheck, like i said zoos are actually helping keep some animals from becoming extinct, educating, etc. i was naive to think that all zoos are good. i do not take me kids to circuses because they are not there for the good of the animals. sooo having said that, i did not go to the ZOO to ogle the animals in cages. i am not perfect and i am guessing you are not either.
Just got back from a trip to Turtle Back Zoo - very lovely and clean. The kids had a great time and it was reasonably priced - $10 for adults, $7 for kids, under 2 free.
I have been there a fue time but not for a long time . I say report them and see what happens and see that the animals are taken care of as they need to be and if needed close them down and see to the proper transfur of the animals
CA, she did butt into a business she knows nothing about. Zoo's are prisons for animals that appeal to fans of a certain type of sadism. There are books and tv shows to see real animals in their natural habitat. Unfortunately, people like mom-o-3 have burned the books and blocked the offensive channels. Get a life and quit bothering people making a legal living or enjoying their lives. Boo-Hoo
one-eyed poacher, either you just like to start trouble or you are just jerk. how dare you say people like me have burned books or blocked offensive channels. you know absolutely nothing about me except that i went to a zoo and could not believe the conditions the animals were living in, so much so that i felt compelled to do something. i am not "a fan of a certain type of sadism"!!! i never claimed to know everything about zoos. i am researching zoos but to be honest there is a lot of conflicting information which i really have no way of knowing how to find the truth. all i know is the zoo i visited was unacceptable!! don't make sweeping comments about people. i did not write anything that would imply that i burn books. that is completely out of left filed and irrelevant!!
Unacceptable to you based on what criteria? Did you research the dangerous animal laws? Did you go to faq's on the federated zoo workers union? You made sweeping comments about a business you have no idea about. There are so many laws, permits, fees, and regulations in any business and more coming daily. If you're concerned about a behaviour, then ask the regulating agency the questions and maybe you'll learn something. But no one should ever make themselves so superior as to take food out of someone elses mouth for a legal activity with a bad public image or one you find UNACCEPTABLE. If you don't like it, fine, but don't start a crusade that could lead to one or many losing everything they've worked for. Used to be for the good of the many, now anyone with a hang nail can petition the supreme court for anything. As Davy Crockett said, "You can go to Hell, I'm going to Space Farms"
Oh, and behaviour like yours leads to burning books and censorship. Sorry but that's where it will end up if you don't lighten up
behavior like mine!!! this is getting ridiculous!!!! i am not trying to shut them down. what i really am trying to do is make it better for the animals. when i was there i only saw 4 employees, a couple selling food, one selling tickets and one worker guy roaming around. i walked all over that place and did not see anybody!!!! wanting a bear to have a bigger space with some grass, no cement, and water to play in isn't even close to the type of behavior that leads to burning books and censorship! so far from something i have ever considered!
"Actually, anyone who would like to see Space Farms closed down would do well to follow the advice of Metsman. If the zoo is not in violation of regulations, the only way it will close is if nobody visits. It's called capitalism and competition. Works all the time"
One-Eyed Poacher read above
mom of three:) did not write this so easy up
So instead of talking to one of the 4 employees you did see about your "UNACCEPTABLE" animal problem or asking for your your money back or leaving because it offended your bleeding heart. You toured the entire zoo and even took pictures......SAY CHEESEY:>........
people need to lighten up. i almost did ask some questions but i was with a few other moms and my 3 small children. i wasn't going to make everybody leave, including my 3-5 and under children because if felt bad for the animals. i am not a psycho!! yes, i took pictures. can you believe it?? i am a crazy bleeding heart!! i am so glad realitychickcheck that you pointed out to me how i wrong i was.....for going to the zoo, not leaving, not taking pictures, not asking questions, etc. clearly i wasn't thinking straight. next thing you know i would have been burning some books!!!
so one eyed thinks i am being ridiculous for being upset by the zoo and chick check thinks i am ridiculous for going to the zoo. clearly i can not redeem myself in either one's eyes and honestly, i could care less.
i have learned at least not to post on this forum!!!!!!
mom of three: It looks like it's "your turn in the barrel." It might be a good time to exit; this thread seems to be picking up speed.
WTF is wrong with you people !!!!!!!!! you make normal people not want to use this forum . your giving mom of 3 a hard time for just voicing her opinion on a FORUM ??????? let me take a wild guess, i bet poacher is a crabby old man who has probably lived in HACKETTSTOWN nj jersey his whole life and knows no better and reality chick, your just mean, are you single ??? hmmmm. Let people feel comfortable just to vent or praise or tell a story with out being BULLIED. there is always a bigger bully out there.
Funny how I say something "mean" and I get called out for it, but someone tears mom of three up over trivialities and no one comes to her defense. Hmmm. . . .
Don't sweat the small stuff/people, mom of three - you did what you thought was right and Bravo to you for that. Let the "others" keep their commentary, now we all know how THEY are and who we're dealing with when dealing with them.
Have a happy weekend and thank you for caring about the animals enough to bring it to our attention. Animal cruelty is lame and shameful - not to mention cowardly, even if people are getting paid to do it.
one eye and chicky should go visit Planet of the Apes - I think they'd fit right in.
LOL!!!!!!!! CMJ you hit the nail on the head........I often wonder too about those that seem to get a kick out of attacking people on this forum........but my 'image' also has warts and bad smells too! LOL Moms of three.........just ignore the pathetic posters that have nothing better to do than attack others! The board can't lose all of the nice people :o)
Oh Boo hoo hoo you are posting on a public forum. The problem with all you "nice" people is that if someone has an opinion different then yours they are mean, blah blah blah. If you want someone to blow smoke up your a** and agree with everything you say or do, then I would suggest private chat......... Mom of 3 (under 5) got her panties in a bunch because others challange her behavior.......didn't support her "cause"......in reality people can have an opinion other then hers......my panties aren't in a bunch for being called mean\pathetic......just because i find it ridiculous that she posted her pic of the bear at the zoo in defense of her cause......hehehehe...........xoxo....
Love to all the hater,
It is a public forum right? There are many people on here with different personalities, views, and opinions. If you are going to post on a topic, but only want to hear comments that agree with your own then maybe you should just discuss it with your friends!
Honestly if someone makes a comment that you do not like or you feel is just starting trouble you don't have to respond to it... just sayin....
mom of three if it makes you feel any better the picture you posted of the bear in the cage does have water to play in:) Actually the rock thing in the middle of the cage is filled with water. They also use the building for their den. You are right though there is no grass.
JRT, i get your point but to say that i am a book burner and i believe in censorship is not disagreeing. and i will respond because that is bull----!!!!
plus CMJ hit the nail on the head, it's not disagreeing, it's bullying!!!
i posted so people would maybe avoid the $50.00 bucks i gave to the zoo.
Ok we'll call it bullying. I wasn't saying that you shouldn't respond, just that you have the choice not to if you feel someone has gone too far.
I do not disagree with you that Space Farms could be better, but it has been open for many,many years so obviously some people enjoy it. It is a well known local family that runs it and maybe the person that was so harsh has some type of personal connection to it who knows?
My point was just that you will not always have everyone jump on board especially when your opinion could hurt someones business.
In any event I hope you are able to do some good on your quest to help the animals.
I for one have never been to a circus for this reason , although I have been to the larger zoos . I wish the smaller ones were banned , they do not have the means to properly take care of these animals . poor animal , some people have no respect for life , so sad and disgusting
I agree, Space Farms should have been shut down 40 years ago. It wa a shithole when I was there as a kid and I'm 45 years old. Even at that young age I knew there was something wrong with that place. They had a huge bear in a cage that was too too small for it in the sun. I don't know how they are still open. I've never taken my kids there just for these reasons.
so i say to you if you think the rules for running space farms are wrong work at getting new rules
there was a time when there was a big movement in this country to close down places that were bad and they did and space farms must have met the rules and to day is still meetng those rules
i made several inquires and they are meeting there requirements because the requirements are lame!!! i contacted SPCA and PETA (even though i do not love PETA) and basically unless i want to march in front of Space Farms and have a demonstration there isn't really much i can do.
Lets see now.....
Parker Space (Owner of Space Farms) is a Sussex County Freeholder and former mayor of Wantage (Beemerville is a part of Wantage)
He is also an agent for the State SPCA
Don't see you getting real far in shutting down Space Farms in the very near future. But if you do decide to picket the place, let me know so my paper can send a photographer.
Not much happening up here in Sussex County.
I was thinking about taking my grandson to Space Farms but I thought I would check out what people had to say first. Well, first of all shame on me for even considering a zoo. And, most especially Space Farms. It makes me pause when almost all the reviews were beyond negative. I cannot believe in this age of heightened respect for the environment that the plight of these animals is ignored. I have been reading comments made as far back as 2000 right up to May 2012 and apparently nothing has be done by the Space family to improve the animals living environment.
I did a little research and found a great website - Michigan State University with a detailed discussion of laws affecting Zoos. I have enclosed the link. A real eye opener. It would take some real organization by some really dedicated individuals to affect any real change, but for now I think the most effective approach would be to not patronize this zoo. Stop supporting them and just maybe they will pass their animals onto sanctuaries that will respect and better take care of their physical and emotional needs so they can live out the rest of their lives with some contentment and respect.
Please read the Michigan State University article, it is really an eye opener . . . .
I'm 46 years old and went there when I was a child and it was a shamble then. That big bear in that small cage is what I remember most. Boiling in the sun and really unhappy. I remember people just taunting it. I can't believe it's still open
There's always a solution pampur. As d oneil stated it would take a real organization with lots of volunteers ..but anything is possible. The first step is to not patronize this atrocious place. I too visited when I was younger and like jaemae what most haunted me was that big bear living miserably on a concrete slab the size of a shed! Its sickens me. How people go there is beyond me.
A great alternative to visiting zoos is visiting farm sanctuaries. They work to provide refuge for abused animals. There is one local - I think in Blairstown and one in Watkins Glen, NY.
somebody may know how to get some media attention on the situation...that is always a way to get things done.....some negative publicity.
Sorry to read that Space Farms has not gotten any better since 1981, when I last visited and found it to be deplorable.
What can downsized government agencies do? In this day and age, government isn't supposed to "meddle" and "regulate" private enterprise. It's considered un-American.
Just because you didn't like it you want it closed? No violations were found. Just don't go again. They get plenty of business and repeat business. Who are you to decide after one visit they shouldn't be in business anymore and closed?
Do us all a favor and just don't visit again. There are alot of people that love Space Farms. The children LOVE it. Most of us grew up with it.
Please... feel free to take yourself and your family somewhere else. It is what it is.. a sweet simple zoo that has been a memory for many families and should continue to be one unless they are committing a crime or the experts find violations. Even then they should get the opportunity to correct the violation before making them close.
Sure take the family to the "sweet simple zoo", filled with dilapidated rusted cages, animals that are lethargic, in small confined cages! See the nice open deer area with stagnate water, on a good day if there is any! It has never changed in many years, always seems to get mostly low marks for conditions etc. "whatever" I guess sees Space Farms as a wonderful place to make family memories!
A word of advice to potential visitors, don't go, unless you have memories about how bad zoos like this were 50 years ago [and were finally closed down]!
My last visit was 5 years ago, and it is very obvious the Space family is fundamentally ignorant to the care of their animals, grounds, and will continue to perpetuate their poor reputation for a "zoo"!
So, whatever, are you saying that unless something is illegal, it's morally acceptable? Only the government can determine right and wrong for us? The government tends to lag behind society when it comes to the evolution of the social conscience. Sometimes we have to lead the charge and then the government will follow . . .
"Do us all a favor"? Speak for yourself. I agree they should be given the time or opportunity to make things better. But they've had 50 years to make thing better and haven't. Space farms doesn't give a rats behind about the condition of their facility. And I don't remember anyone saying they had great childhood memories from there that I know.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But maybe other people feel differently than some of you. If you don't like it, my suggestion would be don't go. I grew up a mile from Space Animal Farms in Wykertown on a horse farm. I am friends with Parker and Rene Space, I graduated with them from High Point. I must say they are hard working people and love animals. I also remember the mink farms that were there which are gone now. In fact... people from Hackettstown I know use to trap and sell the pelts to Frank Space back in the day. So bash and trash Space Farms all you like, many will still go there and love it. And after going there maybe a drive up to Sunrise Mountain or High Point State Park. Sussex County is a great place!
I was afraid that Space Farms was like this. As a Child I went to Turtle Back Zoo and had a blast, but when I visited as a young adult the place was a nightmare. I did not understand at the time they were a non-profit and relied heavily on support. Since that time, Turtle Back has done a complete 360! Through grants and funding (adopt an animal programs and such) they have been able to build up this zoo through the help of the Zoological Society of NJ. It seems that Space Farm may want to look to organizations like this and restructure the zoo as a memorable place to visit in the Skylands region. There are many things they can do not only to change their image, but more importantly for the animals they should be preserving. IMHO.
They love animals but bought mink pelts?
Seems like a lot of people here in Hackettstown trapped out muskrats for their pelts and sold them to Frank Space. That stopped long ago. You need to research Frank Space and the State of NJ he worked for them and quit libeling Space Farms on this internet forum. As I said you don't like it don't go period!
Great suggestion Mother Atabey! I went to turtle back when I was a kid too. I saw the same thing you did when I took my kids there. Not nearly as bad a Space farms though.
honey badger.... Seems like many here on this thread are libeling Space Farms and the Space family. When I see Parker I will tell him.
mom of three:) How did your celebrity activist work out?
D' ONeil...waiting on that solution about what we do with all the animals. Any more studies you would like to share? I see we have "experienced zoologists" on this thread "NOT"....only biased opinions as per usual.
suger and spice..my suggestion to you if it offends you that much just don't go then.
pampur - you misread my comment...
That type of "entertainment" may have been the acceptable 50 years ago when the general population did not concern themselves with animal welfare. But this is the 21st century and I would like to think our culture is a lot more humane and understanding to the compassionate treatment of animals.
Space Farms Zoo is archaic, to say the least.
I do recall that the museum exhibits are worthwhile. However, in my opinion, they should not be in the "zoo" business...live animals should be treated with respect and with concern for their well-being - mentally, physically, and emotionally.
I do hope you pass this thread on to the Space's. My guess is they will shrug their shoulders. They have all these years. And as long as ignorant (that's a harsh word, but I could think of another) people continue to pay their admission, there is no reason for Space Farms to change.
Like others, I will not step foot on the property. And of the few times I heard of anyone considering a visit, I have stated my experiences/opinion (both positive for the museum aspect, and BIG negative for the animals) and have successfully thwarted another paying customer.
After reading all the statements above I am shocked this is allowed to go on. Since when is concrete a natural habitat for a bear ? Maybe the owners should be put in similar pens.
Oops - correction to my post
And as long as ignorant (that's a harsh word, but I could NOT think of another) people...
If you people do not like this place DO NOT GO. Stop bitching. I do not read Hackettstown life often. Now I know why. All you people do is complain.
Snowflake that is exactly my point. All they do is moan, groan,bellyache and bitch and the reason I am on this thread is because I know the Space family personally and I don't like these hater's libeling their good name. Let folks form there own opinions about Space Animal Farms.
Sounds like you're complaining to me, snowflake. Sorry!!
I can tell you as a former employee of the farm that they abuse the animals. Putrid conditions. Avoid at all costs.
mom of three , I personally am glad you are looking into this , these animals cannot speak for themselves and it is easy to turn a blind eye , it is only a few who step up and do the right thing , if all is good they have nothing to worry about , no harm in looking into this , there are to many abuses ignored in this world , thank you for thinking of these animals , this is my opinion and who ever does not like it well to bad, step up people , instead of ignoring and making excuses , like I said if there is nothing wrong nothing to worry about
How long has Space Farms been open for... quite some time right. You are going to have trouble getting a public worker to do something...
Cowgirl ...... mom of three's post was from last year. But don't worry --- I have started working on this issue.
I have to laugh at some of the ignorant comments on this thread. "Family should be put in jail" says who. MikeL?? HA, HA... MikeL. Talk about libel...Wow.... If you have problems this is not the venue to do so. Go to the authorities and make a complaint..... Just more of the Hackettstown Life Forum Peanut Gallery at it again.
I Jay Space Farms been around for many years as you know. It's gonna take more than a thread like this to help the animals. This is just nonsense as per usual.
If I remember correctly Parade magazine voted space Farms one of the five worst zoo's in the country
Well, let's just START by the fact that Space Farms has failed to meet the standards and is NOT accreditated by the Association of Zoos & Aquariums ( the AZA).
The AZA Accreditation Commission members are expert leaders in their fields & have many years of experience and education in zoo & aquarium operations, animal management and veterinary medicine.
The Accreditation Commission evaluates every zoo and aquarium to make sure it meets AZA's standards for animal management and care, including living environments, social groupings, health and nutrition.
The Accreditation Commission also evaluates things such as safety, physical facilities, veterinary care, etc.
Space Farms does not meet the required standards and as a result is NOT accreditated by the AZA.
pampur: So they're your friends. If they were doing anything to hurt their animals, would you try to stop it? I agree that if people are upset with certain things, they should step up to make it better. In other words, put up or shut up.
So far I haven't seen your views on the conditions there. I would be interested to read about them.
Ms. Happy Girl, why are they still in business if the AZA's accreditation commission deemed them unacceptable? No one on this thread has offered any concrete proof of any animal abuse gong on there. And those are very serious charges and should NOT be taken lightly....... show me some evidence of those abuses of the animals you all talk about. I haven't seen anyone back up their statements with facts, except happy girl. Thank you for that information.
They're probably still in business based solely on the fact that they're licensed to keep these animals and said animals are receiving the minimal amount of care as required by the law to not charge them with cruelty. That being said, however, minimal care is not always acceptable care. If the owners/managers were wise, they'd not only improve the care of their animals so that they're happier, but also so the public who visits them and "rates" them (so to speak) has better to say of their facility and the treatment of their animals. MikeL, I'm obliged to agree with you... the owners either must not care that their animals are receiving sub-par care, or must be poorly educated enough so that they are truly unaware that this is unacceptable. Either which way, this issue should be addressed at town meetings, taken up with local Animal Control, etc. If conditions at the zoo have truly deteriorated this much, it's definitely a cause for concern!
"Ms." Happy Girl ???
Belittle me not.
If you're so knowledgeable you should know the answer to your question.
If not, do your homework.
You said ("those are very serious charges") ("show me some evidence of those abuses of the animals you all talk about")
Only 2 people used the word "abuse" ------ YOU; who claim to know so much about the zoo and the owners ... (how revealing .....)
and the former employee (also very revealing....)
The facts are the facts. People who have gone there and saw the conditions have spoken. I was there once, about 15 years ago, and I was appalled.
What do you have to say about Space Farms --- other than they are your friends?
As cbel said, we havn't seen your views on the conditions there.
"Ms." Happy Girl ???
Belittle me not.
happy girl: Just so you know, I was insulted for you.
Looked it up and it was voted one of the worst
My view is I forwarded this entire libelous thread to Parker and his staff at Space Animal Farms to read. Your trashing his business and making false allegations with out any proof.
pampur, that's cool that you have a personal connection to the farm, but it doesn't take a public entity or a zoo accreditation to acknowledge fowl treatment of animals.
For you to come on this forum and belittle and insult people is nothing short of asinine. Disagree with them? Either ignore this thread or prove us wrong.
Truth is what is happening at Space Farms is appalling.
Im sure the family has heard this all before. This certainly can't be the first time they've heard that their zoo is deplorable. But I would guess they have no intention of improving. As long as people continue to hand over money, they have no reason to change. Even the nicest people in the world, pampur, can be ignorant.
Pampur seems unwilling to provide a view of Space Farms, so I will give an abridged one.
Many animals cannot engage in a range and diversity of their normal behaviors because they are confined in biologically irrelevant enclosures.
Many animals live on concrete floors their whole lives with no access to grass or dirt. Many live in cages too small for their size so they cannot exercise adequately.
Goliath, the Kodiak Bear that lived at Space Farms (now deceased) was then the largest bear in captivity in the world. He stood at 12 feet, and weighed 2000 lbs.
He was confined to a space approximately 8 feet by 8 feet. Yes, he lived on a concrete floor, and in a cage that provided no place for privacy where he could go for some peace and shelter away from the gawking public.
pampur, I'd hardly call the thread libelous since the votes did not come from HL people. They are posted online, though in results from the past.
But, if people want, they can always go to their Facebook page and write to them about concerns and go through channels to see what happens. I think a lot of people are sentimental about the zoo, myself included, but it doesn't excuse conditions.
The place has always been a backyard zoo. Nothing has changed since I first went back in the mid 80's. Goliath was in a cage too small for his size and the rest of the place was just a half-assed setup. People act like things suddenly went downhill. It's always been that way.
You want them to start treating animals humanely get people to stop going start protesting their I would bet half of their business are school trips and summer camp trips find out what school districts send kids there find out what summer camps send their kids there call them and tell them about the deplorable inhumane conditions some of the animals are forced to live in and I also would be willing to bet that most of the school districts that come there are from New York Newark Camden call these school districts and find out if they send children there on a day trip tell them about the conditions if that doesn't work call TV stations tell them that this school district send kids to one of the worst zoos in the country when space farm starts losing money they will change but until then they won't
" Space Farms been around for many years as you know. It's gonna take more than a thread like this to help the animals. This is just nonsense as per usual." states pampur.
I dont know we went once about 15 years ago and would never go back again. Many people staed the above so we cannot all be wrong. If you think it will take more than us to help the animals it must be pretty bad now.
oldred - Newark doesn't go to Space Farms. They take students to either the Brooklyn Zoo or Turtle Back Zoo - much closer. And my class will never go to a zoo. We will be field tripping to farm sanctuaries.
@Christine this is not the venue to complain about Space Farms. If you want to make a difference call or complain to the people that regulate the industry. These are only people's opinions on this forum. Not fact and NO proof.
Don't you people have anything else to do but bitch, moan and groan about other people's business? The libel and slander that goes on here is absolutely disgusting. I know of a person being sued for libeling another person here on this forum. So I would watch out what I say about other people and their business. just sayin.
"How long has John DeMaio been in politics in this town? This man seems ethically challenged."
Is this what you mean about libel and slander pampur??
Don't have a dog in this fight, can't remember much from my last trip to space farms as I was super young.... but people expressing their opinion on a forum based on their own experience does not constitute libel. Not even close
As I stated last week pampur - space farms speaks for itself - you can't sugar coat it.
I don't see these posts as bitching, moaning and groaning - but rather customers stating their astonishment and disbelief of the condition and habitat provided for the animals. There is nothing libelous or slanderous of people sharing their opinions and experiences.
Also - if indeed you did share this info with Space Farms, wouldn't it be wonderful to hear from them? To address their poor ratings, not only from this thread but the data that is out there from AZA and other accreditations? Farmer Alstede shared his side of the story on the Alstede thread; I give him a lot of credit for coming on and addressing the concerns and complaints from the Hackettstown Lifers.
If you are truly animal lovers go to the proper authorities and sign a formal complaint against them. This is nothing more than a bitch-fest and getting nothing accomplished.
BLocal. BTW this thread is aiming to defame and ruin Space Animal Farms and Parker Space. Defamation designed to be read is libel.
I actually agree with you a bit on this thread. If the zoo is following the law and people dont like the conditions, I think the thing that people here should do is try and change the law. If they are not satisfied with merely not patronizing the place. If the zoo is doing nothing illegal, posting bad reviews is fine, but nothing will change. Maybe nothing should change.
I actually looked at other review sites, and while there were some complaints, it was not as one sided as here, and many people enjoyed the experience. Interesting.
But - I think you are seriously wrong on your libel/defamation stance. If you were right, no one could ever post a bad review. Yelp would be full of good reviews only. How does that help consumers? That does not make sense.
I am not a lawyer but I have not seen anything on this thread that seems slanderous. Also, a solid defense to slander is truth. Slander has to be false. If what people are saying is true (small cages, etc), there is definitively no slander.
PS. I know you are trying to help defend the zookeepers, but I think if you hadn't answered a few times in this thread, the thread would have died a while ago. Your defense just makes people want to respond and say you are wrong. No posts, and there are no counterposts. Something to consider.
@Troublemaker , of course!
Defamation is when someone purposely says something FALSE.
Pampur is just trying to ~~~~scare~~~~ us into not speaking up about the conditions of her "friends" zoo.
Facts are facts.
If animals are in cages too small for them ---- if animals are confined to concrete floors ---- .....freedom of speech allows us to give our opinions about it.
Opinions are opinions! Wish you had the same attitude about that when you were bashing the HBID. IMO this is not slander.
@Christine to correct you, slander is not the written word. It is defamation orally, the spoken words that tend to damage one's reputation. Libel is the written word. How would you like it if someone did that to your business? Btw: what does the HBID have to do with Space Animal Farms. I have no issues with them. Quite frankly I think they have done a great job with Mr. Sheldon heading it up. ...you must be starting drama I presume must be slow in the store today.
Happy Girl. where are your facts and proof to back up your statements. I don't see any. Any pics you would like to post here to substantiate what you are saying. I didn't think so.
Troublemaker - this is not the first time a business has been defamed and libeled on Hackettstown Life Forum and I am sure it won't be the last...It's seems to be the same people doing it over and over. If you do not agree with them they all start a bitch-fest and go on the attack.
Wow , pampur, I didn't even answer you yet. !!!!!!!
(pampur wrote: "Any pics you would like to post here to substantiate what you are saying. I didn't think so")
Grasping for anything now to write, aren't you !
Pampur, Christine is correct, if you are Pampurr with two r's from last year that was all over BID and said David was an overpaid paper pusher. Libel?
But, back on subject. They are regulated by the Dept. of Agriculture and NJ Fish and Wildlife gives them the licensing. If people are justified in complaints, they should go through those channels, I would think. I haven't been there in years, so I'm just trying to look at both ends of it.
I would think contacting Space, as well, by going through their Facebook page or their own website where you can email them and bring up any concerns.
Pampur my point is that this is not slander.
People do not like to go there because they do not like what they see. that is their choice and they have the right to state that. No judge or jury in their right mind would take this to court. If people like it then good for them.
You are the one getting all heated up over recommendations of whether to go there or not. I find it pretty funny when other like things have been written about other establishments and you never came to their defense. It makes everyone wonder why. The point with me about the BID was not to start "drama cuz its a slow day at my store" as you stated its because you have stated in the past "not so nice things" about the BID and that was your opinion.
Most people will find out for themselves what is good and what is not. Recommendations are just an opinion from a experience. I would take that with a grain of salt. Alot of restauarants get negative reviews on here but I always go anyway to form my own opinion.
Enjoy the rest of the day. I am headed over to set up for the free concert the BID is doing tonight. Anyone like to come?
I took the kids there once when they were little, but I could only find a couple of pictures. Here's one.
If someone wants to see photos from the zoo, they need only navigate to youtube. Here's one video I found from a quick search:
I got it... now I know why people see mountain lions... they keep breaking out of their paper mache cages at Space Farms! LOL...
Also email PETA (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals), they get things done!
I am done with my statements regarding Space Farms. As I see it no proof just all talk here. I will continue to go to see Parker and his animals...
@Christine the concert was great and as I said the New BID Director is great! He has done a wonderful job! IMO
betts, no Peta was no help in the past with Space Farms. That goes back to the early 2000's when they were involved and nothing came of it from what I read.
I almost want to go now to see the conditions now, but it's also more expensive than I thought. (14$ adults) No thanks.
I did enjoy it for old time sake, though. Like I said, sentimental, not for seeing the large sad bear.
no, don't waste your money to see some sorry sights.
Maybe when pampur goes there, she can take pictures of the animals who live on concrete floors in small cages and post them here. That is what she wants ... pictures, right? She said "no proof" .... well, the proof is right there in the videos (numerous ones) that Rich posted.
I remember going there when I was REALLY young - a long, long time ago (stone ages) AND -- - - - I got the pleasure of having a llama spit ALL over me - but he was happy and clean (sorry, I have to bring a little levity here!!) I know somewhere my parents have a picture of me cover in spit bawling my eyes out!!
Just got back from their anniversary celebration. Nice to go back to Beemerville and see old friends and take a drive up beautiful Sunrise Mountain. They did a great job. Place was clean and animals never looked better!
Pampur, in your opinion, do you think the living quarters that the bear lives in is suitable and comfortable? I'm just curious to know if you think that the bear is living happy, with enough room to roam and exercise, has comfort lying on concrete instead of grass. Seriously, do you think that the conditions don't need improvement?
Pampur said she was done !
"Pampur said she was done !" ---- jerseycash5
Well, she wasn't done two post above ................she's BAAAACKKKKK !
Don't you love how she denies the FACT that there are insufficient-sized cages with concrete floors.
Oh-----but then ----- that's right ----------- the owner is her "friend".
@jerseycash5....if Pamper was done then why did Pamper post a comment 10 hours ago?? That's not what he/she stated in the last comment.
Since Pampur is continuing this thread I would love to receive an answer to my question.
The state has regulations that Space farms must follow such as the size of the cages and where animals are permitted to go wheather in the sun or shade. Space Farms cages are up to date and are actually larger than they have to be.
Last week I went to space farms and saw the poor animals. I thought it would be a nice place to bring an 8 and a 6 year old to a zoo, but I was wrong. I saw that the horses deer were really long which one wrong step could be deadly. The little pony with the donkey practically waddles. He has to walk on his ankles or he/she will kill himself/herself. It's so sad. I am honestly a good friend of the owners and they would never purposely neglect their animals. They problem don't even walk to the back of the park. Also some of the animals prolly don't get fed most of the time because they are in the back and the kids can't through the stale corn at them. I don't think anyone feeds those animals.
You are a good friend of the owner? Maybe you should share your concerns with them during your next visit instead of posting it on a public forum? I think that they would probably appreciate that more than you telling the town how "sad" that their business is...
I remember going to space farms on a school trip in Kindergarten. This was 30 years ago and I remember all of the teachers and chaperones were disgusted by the living conditions of the animals. What happened? We want back for our 1st grade trip...and again in 2nd grade. Every year I heard the same murmurs amongst the adults. Seems like nothing has changed in 3 decades.
It seems to me that if people believe the health of animals is endangered, they would make a call to someone-agency that can step in and help improve things. Not long ago there were several major takeovers of locations where animals were mistreated, starved, etc--- One had been reported quite a few times.....Why would you wait if this is a legitimate concern? There is nothing we can do when we read your concerns -
Unfortunately the animal husbandry laws are what need to be changed. All the calls to animal welfare groups won't help because the laws suck.... I tried a while back and was told they are within the legal standard. The laws state that an animal needs to be able to stand up and turn around, along with some other ridiculously low standards. This is why zoos like this are allowed to stay open, the laws are totally lacking. It also does not help that the owner, Mr. Space, is active in the political world so everyone looks the other way. They have had some of their permits temporarily revoked but whatever minimal changes that were made were enough to get them back. The best thing to do is not visit the zoo again and tell others about how awful it is.
If I were Space Farms, I would consider litigation for slander against Horseygurl 99 for the statement: "They problem don't even walk to the back of the park. Also some of the animals prolly don't get fed most of the time because they are in the back and the kids can't through the stale corn at them. I don't think anyone feeds those animals.". As the statement is meant to hurt their business and one wonders how Horsey can know if "they" (all of them?) don't even walk to the back of the park and that also means that animal feedings are left to the good graces of the visitors throwing corn at them for their nutrition - that this means that animals don't get fed. How can someone who doesnt work there assert that animals dont get fed except by visitors?
Doesn't anyone have scruples?
One subpeona to Hackettstown Life to start finding out the real name of the poster and Horsey just lost his/her house.
I agree TM, those types of comments are untrue, uncalled for, and slanderous.
Also, with friends like that who needs enemy's.
Yes, published statements would be libel, not slander.
But, how can It be false to say that someone probably hasn't done something?
That's correct libel is a written defamatory statement while slander is an oral statement. In any event still false statements in my opinion. As an aside, the family just spent the day there just two weeks ago.
"But, how can It be false to say that someone probably hasn't done something?"
If the animals are clearly in distress than apparently someone isn't doing something,
I haven't been to Space farm in many years and have no desire to go. I remember how awful it was years ago. If it hasn't improved that's a terrible shame.
I would suggest that Horsey contact an animal rescue group to check it out and I agree making statements on a local blog is not the way to go.
I was just there! The animals (all of them are fine). I've been going there for 46 years. Some animals are older. That's what happens as time passes. Go talk to one of the Space family members. Find out more about how they got started. Find out how they have taken in many animals over the years that may otherwise have had a much shorter life.
Read Fred Space's book or his daughter's book.
There is so much being said here that is clearly being said without any real understanding about Space Farms and what it is all about.
If, at any point, a 2,000 lb kodiak was in a 8x8 enclosure, there are serious problems. Yes, I realize that the bear probably died 20 years ago but the simple fact remains: if the Space family found those conditions suitable at any time, they don't have a reasonable degree of compassion for these animals. Seems pretty simple, really.
Don't forget lunch or a snack in Space Farms' NEW Extreme Pizza restaurant, where you can grab a fresh slice of pizza — or anything else on the extensive Extreme Pizza menu — lol
I have seen litigation stories on the news about bad Yelp reviews. Those bad Yelp reviews are nowhere near as inflammatory and unable to be substantiated as the statement made by Horsey.
So I guess yes, everyone is a lawyer.
And some people have no scruples. Posting things about how the animals are fed without possibly knowing how they are fed when the zoo is closed to the public. Among other things.
TM (Internet JD)
No PO -
According to Space Farms website, Goliath the 2,000 lb bear (I believe he was 12 ft tall) lived there from 1967-1991.
That's 24 years in that 8x8 cage that had a concrete floor.
Here we go again with libeling Space Animal Farms..If you have a complaint take it up to management? And you say you are a good friend of the owner? Hardly!!
Large predator animals that roam naturally being kept in small cages, an unfortunate occurance at many zoos.There is good reason that people oppose that.
Space Farms just happens to be in our backyard so naturally we would focus on it. (And Snake and Animal Farm in PA, etc)
again I say - if there is really something wrong, do something besides putting it here- nothing will change otherwise --- no I do not have a horse in this race- I've never been there
I've never been there personally but I have seen the owner and the vet from Space Farms on The Pet Stop on Channel 12. That show is hosted by Dr. Brian Voynick, who served as chairman of the New Jersey Veterinary Medical Association Ethics and Grievance Committee as well as president of the Randolph Area Chamber of Commerce. If something wasn't up to standards I don't think someone of Dr. Voynick's stature would put it on his show.
Sometimes you cannot do anything; case example my former neighbor keeps her horses in small box stalls almost 24/7. She kept a turkey(fully grown) in a dog crate.
I called animal control even on state level and they wouldn't do anything. Said it wasn't illegal to not turn horses out in pasture. Unbelievable. I also was told by other neighbors that she had relatives in the judicial system so she was basically "untouchable".
If it's not illegal, then it's not illegal, no matter how many sensibilities it may offend.
And not for nothing, people that post here with all their concerns about alleged mistreatment of animals would do well to devote 10% of the time they spend worrying about animals to worrying about the plight of their fellow humans!
I had no idea JerryG was a mind-reader.
Go back and revisit the thread entitled "why was the SPCA on Russling Road." http://www.hackettstownlife.com/forum/676393#t677897
People went on and on about the animals, and hardly anyone even bothered to comment on the fact that there were children living there, too.
I'm not condoning mistreatment of animals, I'm just saying that in comparison to the emotion I see people showing here about animals, I see very little angst here about mistreatment of people.
OK I see where you are coming from --- however this is a different post -- this post has nothing to do with any endangerment of children.
This post is purely about an animal situation.
Why would anyone in this post verbalize [ angst about mistreatment of people ]
when that's not what this post is about.
If you want to address child abuse, your comments should be on that other post.
To address your words "alleged mistreatment" I would have to say, for example, housing a 2000 lb. 12 foot tall bear in an 8x8 cage with a concrete floor, for 24 years, would qualify as mistreatment.
As far as you heart goes, in your statement that this is not "illegal" .....
what does your heart truly say about this situation..
Maybe you did not know about this.
I just visited space farms. While I was there the workers were feeding the animals. They are being feed so people that are saying that the animals aren't being feed are lying. The cages are much nicer now. The Bears cage is all mud now and no concrete. Space farms also has been recognized by governor Chris Christie.
Look up the owner of Space Farms, he is a republican politician. No wonder Christie recognized him.
bears love mud!
How big is the cage? How would you like to be in a small cage for over two decades? The bear should be in a large enclosure, not a cage.
Protect Space Farms mentioned that Chris Christie "recognized" Space Farms Zoo as if that must mean the zoo is this great place. Parker Space is a Republican NJ Assemblyman so that fact that Christie supported Space Farms means nothing about the quality of the zoo, it was a political endorsement, thats all. I was not trying to politicize the bears, just making the connection between Christie and Parker Space. Besides, I highly doubt Christie spends his days hanging out at privately owned zoos and offering them public support unless there is something in it for him.
I will now be on the look out for all political endorsements of zoo's, carnivals and fairs.
If you folks put this much effort into helping the needy "humans" , the area would be sooooo much better off !
Would NEVER go to this place!!!!!
Space Farms is a wonderful place! Yes, the infrastructure is not as pretty as the Bronx Zoo or Turtleback...because they are privately owned and the owners do all the upkeep and feeding themselves and rely on admissions only...whereas the Bronx Zoo (largest in the U.S.) and Turtleback receive state & local funding and donations from various groups and wealthy donors. So they can afford to build million dollar habitats and hire lots of eager young people. While the facilities at SF may not be the best...the animals are always well cared for. Also consider the Zoo is closed during the winter months, so the owners have to do the daily feedings and maintenance while not receiving any income at all for almost 6 months. The charm of Space Farms is that it is a peaceful and pastoral setting in "farm country" and you can get up close and personal with the animals without the commercialism and overcrowding. I've been going there over 20 years and have never seen an animal mistreated or pacing around in distress as some of the responders have described. I know some of the owners personally...it's a very tough, physical life usually working by 6am till dark every day even if the zoo is closed...but it's the love of the animals and the history this family has, that keeps them going.
If visitors are truly concerned, than you should consider attending more often or donating money to help them improve rather than condeming them and going only to the zoos that are already well funded. I've enjoyed so many great experiences just hanging out at Space Farms and sitting close to the animals instead of being in a crowded, "rush-rush" environment at Bronx Zoo. Don't get me wrong...I like going to anyplace with animals and visit the Bronx Zoo once in a while... But it's so relaxing and stressless going to Space Farms... Sure, most people like shopping at the big malls or online these days...but I also like to frequent small, family owned business as I appreciate the effort it takes to keep going and offer something different and unique.
Unfortunately with the storms yesterday they sustained quite a bit of damage. None of the animals were injured however they did lose the blacksmith building and many trees and such.
Love space farm .. they treat there animals good . If you want to see animals in wide open spaces.... go to Africa .....
They have had some of their licenses temporarily revoked do to not following animal husbandry codes. That came from an employee of NJ fish and game.
Space farms is about 1 hour from Hackettstown, Bronx zoo is about 1:20 , if I have to pick and choose where to go, it's no brainer: The Bronx zoo,
For $125 Family membership you get a full year access (3 adullts and up to 6 kids) to the Bronx zoo, NY aquarium..., free parking at the Bronx zoo and aquarium,
family premiere - Join thru this link
Space farms is just overpriced , and not much to see, and I'm not a big fan of parker
Are you kidding me? Donate so they treat their animals better? No way. Put this nightmare out of its misery.
Storm Damage at Space Farms.
LMAO HappyTeacher... Don't get pampurr started... The Space family are her best friends.
Hey Happy Teacher! Instead of complaining about it on this forum of nitwits. Why don't you file a complaint with the State of NJ!
Animal Husbandry laws have to change, filing a complaint with NJ will do nothing. All zoos are routinely inspected by the state and Space Farms has had permits temporarily revoked due to lack of following guidelines. Unfortunately, animal husbandry laws are minimal and most politicians could care less about them so getting the laws to change will be hard, especially considering Parker Space is a Republican NJ Assemblyman.
For anyone that wants to see an improvement with animal welfare laws, vote for Ray Lesniak for governor. Read about Nosey's Law, that Lesniak is trying to pass. Time and time again he fights to improve conditions for animals.
Just got back from Space Farms. We saw the conditions and they were horrible. At first I thought they were doing renovations. Sadly reading the web this unbelievable cruelty has been going on for decades.
Today I saw bear cages that are electrified and a tiger limping. A mountain cat was kept in a small enclosure and only had sniffing its dung for entertainment.
What we could not believe were the vultures. There were a slew of them and now I see why.
The owners of this zoo should be in jail but I blame the people of Sussex County for allowing this atrocity to stay open. Turtleback Zoo is supported by Essex County tax payers.
I too want this place shut down OR have it be taken over by Sussex County. Let us keep this board going.
As for the animals, they can be placed into sanctuaries.
You drove from Hoboken to somewhere in Essex County on a beautiful day ?? A lot of detail Hoboken sounds like you have an agenda with Space Farms I think that you are full of it !!!!
Ziggy is in Hoboken and it sounds like he/she drove to the country on a nice Sunday. That seems like a great day. Why exactly does that story sound fishy? Ziggs probably went home and googled "space farms is terrible" and ended up here. Just seems weird to pick on the zigster. Oh, and Sussex is in Sussex county. Go figure...
And yes, ziggy has an agenda. SAVING THE ANINALS!
I took my two older kids in the early 2000's and thought it was a dump then. Can only imagine what it looks like now.
Summer, unfortunately the laws have to change. The animal husbandry laws are pathetic which is why places like this can stay open. The owner, Parker space, is a New Jersey assemblyman, good luck getting his political buddies to back up changes to the laws. The best thing people can do is stop going, spread the word about how bad it is and give it bad reviews on travel sites. PETA has been after space farms for years but no luck. I wish there was more that could be done.
Good luck with that..Parker Space is a NJ Assemblymen and a major supporter of Chris Christie and Donald Trump..lol
Pictures would be nice to see all the atrocities that are occurring there..Not just hearsay..
I remember when that bear Goliath was alive and seeing him when I was 5 years old. The memory I have was a miserable creature in a cage way too small for an animal his size.
I was there once about 10 years ago, there was an enormous bear in a bird cage and little children throwing marshmallows at him. I cried. The wolves were kept a chain link fence away from the sheep. I mean, talk about a MINDf...k !
I do remember the Bison getting loose and running down the road...their Emu's got loose too and ran into my horses' pasture ....when we had our horse farm down the road from the zoo..Emu's can jump..and run fast.
This place is truly an animal concentration camp. So sad to see that so many of us know this, and so little we can do. I know I called SPCA but never heard back regarding my complaint. They have taken their review section off of their Facebook page. The place needs to be shut down and animals sent to sanctuaries.
If you can go there and truly believe that those animals are being treated well then the real problem is you. Look at the way the country treats its people? Do you really think they will go out of their way to help these abused animals? Maybe if enough people keep fighting for them. Keep it up!
Several years ago a summer program my kids were involved in was going there on a field trip and I refused to let my kids go. I was not the only mother who would not let their kids go. That place is horrible.
How about petitioning the state to provide subsidies to Space Farms.
Turtle Back zoo has been getting them for decades .
Turtle Back Zoo is owned by Essex County and is supported by a non-profit. Why on earth should a private for-profit slum "zoo" like Space Farms get any money from the state?
Money is the last thing that place needs. It needs to be shut down. The owner is a state representative I am sure he could get money if he needed it. He takes better care of his antiques than he does his animals. What needs to change are Animal husbandry laws so zoos like this will be closed down. It’s astounding to me that people still visit this hell hole.
This thread needs some videos. Hell hole? Is it really that bad? I’m not saying that it isn’t a hell hole but a little video evidence would be helpful.
A randomly chosen YouTube video. Not exactly well designed, spacious habitats.
It is not a PERFECT WORLD people The animals have shelter are fed and SAFE
Littlepiglet, so are people in prison, but then again they usually have done something to deserve being in that situation.
Why is it no one here as offered to help vs. criticize a place that has existed long
before it was "fashionable" or "in style" to help animals !?????
The Space family has done far more for abandoned and sick animals than any of you could ever imagine.
My grandparents knew the Space family , always willing to help.
Well I for one love Space Farms. Our family goes at least 3-4 times per year. It is a great place for us to watch animals.
I Imagine you could write letters to the state requesting financial assistance for space farms...or perhaps volunteer at the farm itself.
Call them and ask, "what can I do to help you, Help The Animals ??
Steven, You can’t just call the state and ask them to give money to a privately owned zoo. There is s budget that needs to be followed, it is not easy to just change the budget because people ask them too.
The way they keep their animals is their choice, volunteering is not going to change that choice. They make plenty of money off that place, what they choose to do with that money is up to them. I am certainly not going to volunteer for a place that treats their animals so poorly. I went once and I will NEVER go back.
It's kinda easy to see the difference between space farm, an attraction, and a zoo. They do a decent job for their ungulates. A mediocre job for their lemurs. But do an awful job for their big cats, bears, I will say minus that one enclosure would be better if not so populated, and that poor gator. Just look at a decent zoo and see how far range a big cat needs. Turtle back last year introduced lions. The could fit 50 of spacefarms lion cage in there. I know it's in the city but look at the Bronx zoos big cat or any enclosure.
According to all new jersey state laws that is all the animal space required. Sad but true. I would take it up with the STATE since right now everything at space farms is legal. My family has worked for them for many many years so I've heard it all about that place. Nothing will change until the LAW does sadly
Went there recently. Appalling. Wondering how long before the lion or tiger stop trying to kill one another to notice they can dig under the fence of the outdoor cell in about 2 mins. Just happen to record a rat in the extremely angry lions pen. If there are rats in the angry lions pen in broad day light can you imagine how infested that shithole is? Think ive been there nearly every decade of my life but i will never go back. Hard to watch.
That place is horrid. They don’t care about the animals at all. It’s a money grab for them, money is all they care about.
Why not contact Assemblyman Space and complain? He owns the place. If you send an electronic message, through the site, be sure to copy Assemblyman Wirths and Senator Oroho as well.
I lived up the road from this place. Went to HS with the Space family from Beemerville. Ralph Space use to have a mink farm across the street from the zoo. Stunk to high heaven..these folks are entrenched in Sussex County. Good Luck. They have been cited numerous times..nothing happens.
I could not agree more. Were it not for Assemblyman Space's political clout in Sussex county and Trenton it would have been closed down a long time ago.
My niece is a Vet Tech, she recently went there. She could not believe why the place had not been shut down. Politics that’s why. It’s a shame because the animals always suffer for the almighty dollar.
and who here has made a formal complaint to the appropriate agencies...........or are we just making noise or as my dad used to say - "just talking to eachother"???
I learned from the Humane Society that this zoo has been cited numerous times for violating the minimum standards of the Federal Animal Welfare Act. Some of the violations were for poor sanitation, dirty drinking water, failure to have a veterinarian-approved diet plan for the big cats, and many more.
No disrespect Pampurr, but your tune was very different in the beginning of this thread. What has made you change your opinion?
Jesse, unfortunately many posters complain on here but do nothing about it. I’ve surmised that you are not that way and take action and I do know that 4catmom is a doer who walks the walk to get things done.
Jesse - I've never been there ....and I would definitely report if I had first hand observations.
The state should give space farms subsidies ( as they do for turtle back )…...then the animals would have all that you would want them to have.
The Space family looked out for animals long before others did to be "in the click or the trend"
No one speaks of volunteering to assist there , just bitch & complain …..amazing .
How about demanding from the state why Turtle back gets subsidized and nothing for Space Farms ?
Steve, What click are you talking about? Why didn’t Repug Assemblyman Parker Space ask Christie for subsides? He had more than a chance with Christie as Repug Gov for 8 years.
This "discussion" of funding from the State of NJ for either Turtle Back zoo and or Space Farms is devoid of facts and an understanding of what the process consists of related to fundraising- including the grant process from any source in particular public monies. I recommend anyone wishing to comment on any part of the aforementioned related to monies received, applied for, or anything in between, should understand the process as so one may attempt to learn and comprehend the various processes in which an organization may obtain funding from a public source of money. Shooting from the hip with a statement akin to just wink and elbow your buddy in government is nonsense.
As far as "demanding" from the state an answer as to why a particular facility received monies, all I can say is read the line items in the state budget some time. You would be "demanding" explanations for thousands of organizations as to why they received public monies.
Just my opinion of course.
Pampur ….what have "you" done to help these animals during those 8 years you admit being aware of situation ???!
Yep, I would guess the same as all the others bad mouthing the Space families efforts for decades with no state subsidies .
I would like to know what happened to change pampurr's mind. When this thread was started, it was all how wonderful the Space family is, has known them for years, and everyone spreading bad stuff about them should be sued for libel. Did you learn something new and awful that has made you change your mind or is what you are saying just personal now?
I had no idea that this place was owned by Assemblyman Space. Voting day is tomorrow so get out and vote to make your voice heard.
If it is as bad as everyone claims do not go there. Eventually they will clean up their act or close down.
"I had no idea that this place was owned by Assemblyman Space. Voting day is tomorrow so get out and vote to make your voice heard."
What does voting have to do with it?
"If it is as bad as everyone claims do not go there. Eventually they will clean up their act or close down."
Here's some wise words on internet complainers.
I never said I did....justvwonderig why you changed your tune so much. The place hasn't changed for years and is not different than when you were singing their praises. Just wanted to know what changed for you?
Pampurr, why the about face on a public forum, where you seem to be the same account as 'pampur' earlier that defended the place that keeps large carnivores in tiny barren cages?
I second the other posters' questions as to why you've changed your opinion- it seems like something really changed your mind, unless there is an imposter post going on.
Thanks for the insight.
kepa - Do you see the small colored square next to the name? When that's the same from 2012 to now you can tell it's the same person. No need to think it's different people.
Ah thanks GC!
For your reading pleasure from Associated Humane Society
February 2020 Humane News
More info: https://secure.mediapeta.com/peta/pdf/spacefarmsfactsheet.pdf
Shouldn't shock anyone. Their once prize giant bear Goliath was shoved into a tiny cage.
Here is the attachment from Humane News. For some reason it dropped from my original post.
I went there as a child and even then I thought it cruel. My now adult children went on a trip and I went along as a chaperone. It really had not changed much. The poor animals were still kept in small cages and paved back and forth. I never went back. Once I had my grandson,while his parents were away, my aunt and I took him to Turttleback Zoo in West Orange. It was so nice, they had just opened the new carousel and he loved it. The animals appeared to be in much better spaces. We all enjoyed ourselves.
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