Curbing (and Teachers Unions) in Hackettstown
I have been looking into the curbing in front of my house and apparently if I want it fixed it is my responsibility... Since it is in the towns road and right of way I’m not sure how they can pawn that off on me..Any thoughts or ideas? I am thinking of attending a council meeting to see how to get this changed..
mr. Tone 
Bug3I think you would have to start by deeding part of your property to the town. After that I don't think the town would be very happy announcing the new tax increase to take care of more new property. Feel free to discuss with Council, but the additional burden on the town isn't something I would personally support.
GC Well Gc for the taxes I pay I think it should be their responsibility to fix.. If they did a couple hundred feet a year not sure it would drastically increase taxes. Mabey incorporate fixing curbs when they repave roads.. .. Not that I have sidewalks in front of my house but I am really baffled at how they can make homeowners fix their sidewalks... From what I see a lot of sidewalk problems are caused by trees being planted to close.. So if someone trips or gets hurt on a sidewalk is the town or homeowner responsible??
Hackettstown has higher taxes then surrounding towns but they also offer way way more then other towns. I agree they should incorporate fixing curbs when they plan to pave a road but I can tell you that will not ever happen. They spend money on stuff they do not need instead.
I always wondered about this...especially when curbing was cracked a day after it was installed (shotty install) or if curbs were damaged by snow equipment used by the town....if the curb was installed by someone else, then why should it become a home owners responsibility?
Not to mention the area a curb and sidewalk is installed on is typically the towns property and not on property you actually own (at least by me...neighbors went through this when the town wanted to widen the street)....just look at your survey...you probably do not even own the property the curb is on.
Darrin Next town council meeting is this Thursday the 14th at 7pm
Only 21% of your property taxes actually goes to the town. The rest goes to county and BOE
Jim L Didn't you realize that you're in charge of curbs and sidewalks when you bought your home? If you were not happy about the situation where you would have to pay then you should have thought about it and bought a condo or bought a house where you don't have to be concerned about that
Proud liberal Mr Tone....I agree with you 100%...should be a town issue. When we bought our house 28 years ago, my father came for a visit and his first comment was "someone in your town signed off on substandard concrete". Dad knew his stuff. He had been in concrete construction work for 35 years. The town plows (or sub contractors) have damaged the curbs, the trees have damaged the curbs and time has not been kind to the curbs.
When our street was repaved 18 years ago, we were told it is the homeowners responsibility. Think the town would be able to get a contractor at a cheaper price than individual home owners. Contractors are not going to want to come for one house's curbs and do the work at a reasonable price.
Nancy I wonder why some parts of town get curbs and sidewalks replace while other areas do not
You do realize this is not a Hackettstown specific rule. Sidewalks and curb repairs are homeowners responsibility is every town
Get off the computer and fix it yourself......? Can't physically do it? Have a niece, nephew, brother, decent neighbors, friend, do it for you for a small fee/beer. If it truly needs a full replacement chip it apart wait for plows to remove it in the winter then form and pour in the spring. There are companies that mix on site now in dually pickups.
younggen The interesting part is, in some instances curbs and sidewalks are forced on you (and in some parts not there when purchased but added (with no choice of the home owner) as part of a street upgrade)
Then, when substandard materials are used, or they are damaged by town equipment, or town owned trees...they become the responsibility of the home owner?
If that is the way it's going to be...fine...but at least have the option to not want sidewalks or curbs on your (actually town owned....yet you are responsible) property
I can see both sides of the argument here....as one that just recently received curbing as part of a street upgrade and a driveway apron (which i did not have at the time of purchasing my home) it was a question I too raised.
Darrin as you know as someone who attends meetings if the town hires a 3rd party to do the street and curb project there are performance bonds for the project. So if it is done poorly and needs to be redone it covered. I believe that specifically happened to you, right? Now 10/20/30 years from now if the curb wears down then it’s the homeowners responsibility for the repair.
I believe unless other circumstances are made, performance bonds are only held for a limited time (i forget if it is a year or 3 years...maybe more).
Funny you ask Jim....happened to me...YUP....corrected...NOPE!
I am still waiting for then to re-do my driveway apron which I as well as the town engineer found to be unsatisfactory at install, they tried to get away with just patching it..(a.k.a shotty work...and my argument above....I am not going to be responsible for something not done right in the first place).....still not acceptable....the town engineer is aware and said it would be completely redone....still nothing has been done....this has been ever since CVS opened...so 2 years now? One the other side of the road curbing that was cracked a day after install was pointed out to the appropriate people yet nothing was ever done.....
Performance bonds are great...getting the people to actually do the work, or hold contractors accountable...apparently not so much.
While we are on the topic Jim....wearing down I completely agree with you...but what if a plow truck hits it and tears it up? I do not feel homeowners should be responsible for (1) shotty work, or for (2) damage from plows.
And these are the same people that complain because the plows aren't getting close enough to the curb.
First off JimL long valley fixes both their curbing and sidewalks.. They call the Dpw and they usually fix it as it is their responsibility...As far as proud liberal comment not sure how to address the stupidity of your comments.. My wife was born and raised in Hackettstown so that is where we wanted to live... I understand that if the town were to invest it’s infrastructer it might mean one less nontaxpayer getting a government hand out..But. For the money I pay in taxes I think this a no brainer.. I have a beautiful house, nice yard, great neighborhood, and 6 sections of rotted broken crappy curbing in front..For the record our Dpw does a great job year round and I have no complaints whatsoever with them...
Per Long Valley’s code:
It shall hereafter be the duty of the owner or occupant of any real property in the Township fronting or abutting any public street or sidewalk to construct, repair or maintain the curbs, public sidewalks and grass medians between the curbs and sidewalks in front of such property whenever curbs or sidewalks are required or, being already installed, shall be in such disrepair as to constitute a hazard to the general public using the aforementioned areas unless they are repaired or maintained. In the case of curbs, sidewalks and grass medians between the curbs and sidewalks, such repairing, grading and maintaining shall be done without formal notice from the Township when the need arises.
https://ecode360.com/12098811#12098811
I don't have a sidewalk in front of my house- but if I did and the town said it was my responsibility, great. I would rip it out and plant grass.
What? No? Then they can pay for it.
My responsibility and cost = my choice.
If they want to choose and force a sidewalk they can pay for it.
Yea- It wouldn't end well for me, but the town would regret the fight as well by the time I was finished.
:)
Josh Little Rascal what exactly does Hackettstown offer that neighboring towns don't? Last time I checked we don't even bus our kids to school. The high school sucks and is run by a guy who was born after Back to the Future came out. The rec sports programs suck. The sidewalks in town are a mess. I look around at homes for sale and some of the taxes are $8,000-9,000 a year. Sorry but this town isn't worth those kinds of taxes. That's why I'm leery to buy in NJ. You get little for your money.
Metsman Sorry, but HHS doesn't compare to ANY high school in Morris County. Like the Superintendent really cares, he cares about his compensation as that has been corrupted...
iJay Oh, I got it now. It's the education system that's responsible for the curbs. They have beautiful curbs in Morris county. Check out the property taxes in Morris county. The home owner is most likely responsible for the curbs there too.
Indy Metsman I'm over 10,000 in taxes. If it were up to me i would rip the side walk up in front of my house and plant grass. I already run over it with the lawnmower so no extra work. Actually less work in the winter, no salting or shoveling.
CJ. Well if your taxes in town is $10,000 that means
$2100 goes to the town
$100 to the library
$2100 goes to the county
$100 to county open space and
$5600 goes to the school.
Whip $5600 for a year of school....unlimited kids? You cannot even get a new born in day care for a year for that price!
Maybe they should start charging parents per kid...that's what I would like to see.
It's our future. Kids are expensive, get over it.
How did (curbs in hackettstown) turn into a school funding debate?
Because Indy ppl like to throw out lines like “for the amount of taxes I pay in town I should get...” but they really don’t know the actual breakdown of who their taxes go to.
Btw I notice Mr tone did not attend last night’s council meeting perhaps he will be at the June 28th meeting.
"Maybe they should start charging parents per kid....that's what I would like to see."
YES!!! I agree. Maybe it would give people such as myself that do not have ANY children a break since the school taxes are killing me..
JRT So what if you rent? Seems kind of unfair just to tax homeowners with a school tax.
renters pay school tax as well. The property owner pays property tax and he passes that tax to their rentals in the form of rent.
If you pay by the number of kids, what do you do with the largest amount of tax - business properties? Or apartment complexes? If you charged per kid, what if you are a modest family of three would get a bill of $40,000? What do you do since school is mandatory but many don't make enough a year to pay a child based fee? That $5,600 is looking awfully good.
Oh I know and completely agree GC....but it would level the field of people complaining about taxes real quick.
Just out of interest, how much does a business contribute to school tax?
The problem is there are way too many schools in this state. Over 300 high schools in a state this size... Think about how much of the money is just going to a principal. Let's say they all make $100K. Obviously it's more than that but that right there is over $300,000,000 combined just to pay principals. That doesn't count middle school and elementary principals. So it's probably over a billion dollars a year just to pay the principals in every school of this small state. That doesn't count vice principals. You get the point... Way too much overhead. Better off having regional High Schools.
So the curbs and sidewalks are up to the home owner soon your have to repave and do your own snow removal on your little section of road lol
The cost to send a kid to public school in NJ is close to $18k/year. So CJ would be paying $36k to send his 2 kids to school. yes GC all of a sudden that $5600 school tax does not look so bad.
I paid to have both of my kids go to the Gaddard School before grade school. So i have paid for school along with paying taxes. Yes you do get to a tax credit but it doesn't help a whole lot.
I have been looking into sending my kids to another district. It would be nice to get that $5,600 to go towards the tuition.
I have read the break down of my tax bill everytime it comes in the mail. It is not alien to me. I know what i pay for.
" Kids are expensive, get over it." Compare that to a public worker with 25 years of service, (25 when hired, 50 retired) living to 82 (30 years not working) with a 60k pension and lifetime health benefits. Now that's expensive.
And you wonder why NJ is in debt 200 billion to the employees.
Just wait till this bill comes due.
How much does open heart surgery cost- or cancer treatments-Ok, sometimes children but OVERLY diseases of the older generations.
The longer older people live, the more expensive they become.
Dodgebaal That $5,600 is not all of it. Pensions are paid at the state and the teachers only pay 7.5% (was 5.5%) and the taxpayers are hit with 21%. And then there is the retiree medical which nothing is paid for but all by the taxpayers. NJEA - New Jersey Extortion Association...
4catmom 
positive Metsman
While I agree that the idea of a larger "Regional High School" would be a better to provide a wider range of programs and services to students, you then run into busing and time issues.
It's not so much the amount of schools themselves in this state, but the insufferable amount of school districts which each then have a school board who hires a superintendent for each one, plus assistant superintendent and the associated support staff. Many of these have one High School which is fed by one or more middle schools, etc. In a number of other states a school district may consist of several high schools and cover a number of towns, rather than having one district per town or township.
That's what I find incredibly ludicrous. By what reasoning would someone from one part of most NJ counties need different textbooks or largely different educational programs than someone from another town in the county. It would make much more sense to consolidate many current school districts and upset the whole ridiculous hierarchy. I believe THAT would be a major key to being able to save money overall.
By the way, when my sister lived in Mt. Olive Twp. (Flanders), they were told that a couple of sections presented trip hazards because they no longer matched level with the rest and part had delaminated on one, leaving a shallow pot hole in it. They were told they had to replace them at their own cost or the town would do it for them and charge them for the replacement, etc.
Meanwhile, my parents had trees (planted by the town) that caused the sidewalks to become very out of level and the town (Parsippany) actually replaced the sections for free.
On a historical note...while researching the history of the Centenary University "President's House" I found a notice that W. H. Hoffman the earlier owner of the house was sent a notice by Hackettstown that directed him to install sidewalks on the property in a style and substance consistent with existing sidewalks in the town, otherwise face a fine and the town would do it and bill him for it.
Phil D. Metsman- you might want to check your math. $100,000 times 300 is not $300million, it's only $30million!
FarmerJake 
CraftBeerBob Lets root-cause this problem.....Too many teachers? Too many schools? Try too many KIDS!!!!!
Most of the schools we have are busting at their seams.....blame the parents!
3wbdwnj Take all the curbs and sidewalks out persnally I could care less I want to walki go to a park go to dirt roads.that would cut down on dpw costs.
No thank you 4catmom. I call out corruption while ex-teachers like you can't see the corruption due to your insider bias. The taxpayers deserve taxes and increases which are predictable and fair, not the result of refusing to lower total compensation on public workers and reduce their numbers when efficiencies dictate so.
iJay....it's never going to happen....just try it....the teachers union will demand a strike which all union members are REQUIRED to participate in....I wish you luck.
No teachers no school
Why are you so fixed on teachers? Do you know how many other employees fall under that same benefit package? People who do way less work for way more money.
Quite a few, but none have a part time job (Summers Off). Try working the night shift like a cop, proven to take years from your life. Excessive taxes is an infringement on my liberty as it should be for all unless you a recipient of the excess.
Market-Rate compensation is what I am looking for, understand?
IJay. I give you one day in a classroom and I bet you’d change your tune. So sick of hearing you complain when you have no idea what you’re talking about. Give it a rest already
Ziggy Summer off and tons of holidays, Guaranteed salary increases for BS degrees. This is fantasy-land turned into reality courtesy of the NJEA...
"Market-Rate compensation is what I am looking for, understand?"
I've stated in the past, I get 100/hour to tutor social studies privately. 42 weeks in a school year, that's 168,000.
Move to Alabama if you want to live your libertarian fantasy. You'll love your neighbors.
poor Ijay - if he's not ranting about teachers he's ranting about Israel -- must be hard being angry all the time.................
and btw - if you think teachers aren't paying property taxes, state income taxes and the rest of it - you are sadly mistaken -
please don't urge him to spend a day in a classroom - not fair to the kids
iJay can take ANY topic and make it about either teachers or Zionists.
Hey iJay: margherita pizza: GO!
JeffersonRepub IJay has his pet annoyances but at least he’s consistent - all good. I appreciate his contribution. First amendment and all that
Skippy Who here is for US taxpayers funding Billions to Israel? Any takers? If so you should be brought up on treason...
Goeagles you are hilarious. Your $100 estimate does not include down time or travel right. People pay for 1,2,3 hours with the travel in between on your own dime. Then you get ZERO benefits. Vacation? Not paid. Sick? Not paid. Health Insurance? Not paid. Retirement? Not paid. Retiree medical? Not paid.
42 weeks X 5 billable hours x $100 = $105k. Now I doubt you could even maintain this with travel and scheduling, cancellations, changes, etc. Anyone truly self-employed as a tutor want to comment, not a fake NJEA Zombie like Goeagles?
"2,598 schools in 691 districts in NJ."
Thanks for the statistic CraftBeerBob! That means less than 4 schools per District on average. I'd appreciate it if you could point me to where you got those statistics, as I'd like to find out how many have a Superintendent, etc.
So how much is wasted by lack of shared services and Superintendents that could go to school services? I feel that combining current Districts into larger ones and making the current school boards essentially like a Senate to ensure that all areas are served evenly would be a huge step ahead and reduce costs while providing better services to all students.
I want to know who is desperate enough to pay $100/hr for tutoring! Am I the only one who thinks that’s insane?
justintime If GoEagles gets 100/hr for tutoring that's fine. You can probably get someone else to do it for 40/hr, maybe as good, maybe not.
What I find is that it's not always what you pay, some people are just more willing to work for less money than others, and can be better than those that are more expensive.
As far as the teachers, there is a Whopping DEFICIT in their pension plans. They will be thrown under the bus before the police will, because a government always needs the enforcers aka the muscle. At some point this bill will come due and it will be ugly. Those retired now, just like all seniors, will have an advantage as they will have sucked the well dry. I have seen estimates of 50-100 BILLION dollars owed. That's a lot of scratch. America has lot's of chickens that are going to come home to roost, Medicare and Social Security are in bad shape.
The police pension is secure for the reason I posted above. No one will take the money away from a trained army whose job will be to protect the government interests. It is what it is.
Ziggy- I'd wager any teacher to spend one day roofing or doing masonry. I don't believe teaching is easy, but no way is it harder than the construction trades. Not only that, but long term teachers do much better from a health standpoint. 93% of workplace deaths fall into careers done by men. Until recently, when teachers started to get shot at work, they never had a workplace fatality. It's also a career you can do with a disability vs other jobs. So after getting a standard Bachelor's degree, it's not an overall bad career, and it does pay well although by itself you are not rich in NJ on a teacher's salary. However, a teacher and a cop can easily make you a millionaire in NJ.
Ijay....copying and pasting from previous threads? You sound like a broken record.
....and...to once again debunk your claim of "part time"
Teachers put in way over their 40 hours per week. They are expected to make lesson plans, grade papers, create homework assignments..etc....when do you think that work gets done? Certainly not during their 1/2 a hour prep
If a teacher was to work (speaking conservatively) two hours extra per day...per 185 school days that is a total of 370 unpaid hours....guess what that equates to?
Just over 9 weeks of pay........know how long the summer is? 9 WEEKS!
Get off the "part time" pony already dude
People in the private sector only work 40 hours and go home and leave work behind? This sense of entitlement is sickening...
I am calling out the poor little teacher as it is fleecing the taxpayer. Salary and medical while working from the district; retiree medical and pension from the "state."
New Jersey doesn't exist to provide excessive compensation for public workers, it should be for the majority (90% who are not). But rather the unions have controlled Trenton and local municipalities to extract every drop of compensation they can, instead of looking how they can control costs for taxpayers that have seen their property taxes double and state spending getting steered towards pensions and retiree medical rather than more appropriate spending.
Darrin,
Most jobs today put in way over their 40 hours per week without getting paid extra. Meetings, training sessions, licencing requirements, on call with no pay, etc. Bottom line is in Morris county plenty of teachers making 80k+, no weekends, snow days, all holidays off, decent summer vacation, pension and great benefits (sure they pay a percentage of the bennies but so does everyone else I know in private industry) and work in a climate controlled, tenured, physically non demanding career. No private business I know has tenure...
So yes, teachers do pay into their pensions, benefits and work more than 40/hrs week.
This is not in dispute, at least by me. It's not a bad career. All you need to do to become a teacher is to acquire a Bachelors degree and a teaching certificate.And like other careers, some employees are good, some are bad, some are connected, some are disillusioned.
You hope your child gets a good one.
Also teaching varies from district to district. There are nice towns to work in and not so nice ones.
But by a long shot, it is NOT the hardest work for anyone. It's not as easy as being a librarian, however.
Let's all agree that iJay is right. No more responses to his brilliance.
He will dis a p e a r . . . .
Dodgebaal makes good points - I am not in any way disputing that teachers work hard - BUT - it is true that they get salaries/benefits/pensions that others, who work hard, perhaps harder, longer and with more risk to their physical and mental health do not get - even in some professions that require more training than a typical teacher - Plus, this apparent inequality of job requirement-benefit and compensation ratio as compared to others is paid for out of other worker's incomes - hence the strong and consistent protest. Working beyond 40 hours, more than 5 days/week is the norm for many many professions - with minimal vacation/holiday/sick time and minimal job security, poor insurance, inadequate retirement benefits, etc. To just dismiss the consistent complaint as being just someone's driving whine is inappropriate. Perhaps those that do so are teachers or have friends/family members who are teachers and know them to be hardworking, committed workers - that is not the point. Some acknowledgement of the realities of both perspectives is really needed.
rleaf "People in the private sector only work 40 hours and go home and leave work behind?"
I do......and if work happens to pop up...I get paid
"Most jobs today put in way over their 40 hours per week without getting paid extra. Meetings, training sessions, licencing requirements, on call with no pay, etc"
Any hour over 40 is time and a half....weekends and holidays double pay.....if I have to work in the city....double pay and paid meals
The "salaried" positions typically see bonuses based on job performance/branch performance....so the more time they put in the better bonus they get.
Just because your job is miserable does not mean everyone else's has to be too.
Darrin, I am so very happy for you - but please do not assume. That is NOT the case for many many workers - in the current climate, the expectations for work effort are huge for many -
Just because you have a job that provides for all the extra work required - doesn't mean that is so for everyone.
TRY to open your mind a bit, TRY to see that others have different experiences and don't just generalize from what you know.
humanity 101
"Just because your job is miserable does not mean everyone else's has to be too."
Just because your job pays extra for everything does not mean everyone else's does that also.
Paid meals. I wonder what percentage of careers pay for the employee's meals.
Well, maybe some holiday meal or something special.
Still does not change the fact that teaching is a relatively good career overall for the education required and the benefits received.
I'm glad the US funds Israel. We need the ONLY Democratic country in the Middle East to survive. Is that so hard to comprehend?
I guess so if you're rabidly anti-Jewish like I jay.
Eyebrows Trudeau just gave millions to Hamas, maybe Canada and Justin are your place Jay Jay.
JYM LOL, ijay! I would have thought it was obvious since he declared anyone who supported Israel was guilty of treason. Of course, he's also a Holocaust denier. Definitely has several screws loose.
Teachers don’t get paid in the summer. That said, I believe my salary is fair. I work two part time jobs and a summer job to supplement my income. Even with a masters degree, I am still required to continue my education. So I don’t appreciate the allusion that my education is laughable.
HappyTeacher "Teachers don’t get paid in the summer. "
This means nothing. They get paid per year. You are free to save a portion of your salary every month for when you are not working. The working number is how much a teacher is paid per year. In fact, if you add in the time you are not working, the dollars/hr amount goes up.
With a Masters degree, you should be close to a 6 figure income if you have some years under your belt. I don't expect you to state your income, but a simple check of salaries on data universe will show plenty of teachers making 80 or 90 thousand per year without being paid for the summer, which would equal over 100k per year.
Add tenure, pension, and health benefits (which teachers do pay a portion of) and summers off (great if you have children) snow days (don't have to drive in bad weather) most holidays off paid, roughly 7-3 job (you can do some of your extra work at home, not forced to stay late every night) climate controlled job, no real heavy lifting required (chances of injury are small) overall it's a really good job.
Could someone with a similar degree make more on the private side-maybe, but not with tenure and all of the other benefits teaching provides.
So yes, it's a good job, and well paid for what it is.
Can't see any teacher wanting to become a roofer, framer, plumber or auto mechanic..
Some observations:
1) "I am still required to continue my education" and not many jobs give you a salary increase for getting additional degrees, you need to work for that promotion.
2) Darrin's situation is entitlement-based. Wife is a teacher with excessive compensation, and he is an hourly worker who doesn't work 5 minutes moire without pay. Ever heard of the professional exempt workforce?
3) Miserable job. Not me, I am highly paid and enjoy it most of the time. I am speaking for the masses in this state that are have-nots paying for the haves.
4) Billions are paid in excess for retiree medical and pensions at the state level. These billions come from everyone in this state, taxpayers.
5) Billions sent to a foreign land named Israel. How can you justify spending US taxpayer monies this way unless you are a Zionist. Libertarian Ron Paul called this out but everyone else is bought by AIPAC so mouths are kept shut.
6) Holocaust. Why can't the number be questioned? I would argue nothing in life should be exempt from debate, and the more you try to suppress discussion the more likely you have something to hide.
7) Finally, this thread/topic has been renamed. Can it be renamed one more time to "Curbing Teachers Unions"...
JYM, democracy huh???
https://www.yahoo.com/news/m/f138d1f5-5ddd-34eb-a1f9-aaa197238907/ss_israel-extends-detention-of.html
“Darrin's situation is entitlement-based.“
I-jay...sorry bud but you don’t know me or my wife or even have a clue as to how hard we worked to get where we are and what it cost us....so please do not try to act like you know me.
Somebody already amended the name GC, understand? If the name wasn't already amended then I wouldn't ask (and jokingly at that), no entitlement on my watch :)
Yup, Israel is a democracy. The ONLY ONE in the Middle East. And your Holocaust lies - not even worth the time of day. You're a sick person.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/jan/24/israel-the-only-democracy-in-the-middle-east-must-/
Anyone can google and copy and paste, jay jay
As a teacher, I wish my holidays were paid! We work a certain number of days and are paid only for those. Believe they are over 180 days!
JYM, you are sick in the head -- everything is about you and your biblical stories no more true than Greek mythology; but these "myths" cause real effects in the world via Trillions of US dollars wasted in wars we had no business being in and many thousands of lives. Are the Zionists/Evangelicals/Neocons (often the same thing) "good" people -> NO.
A questioner is a denier? Take the 6 million figure or else?
Do you know why Iran is against the USA? Well we tried to take over their oil via US multi-nationals. They rightfully saw the BS and the Islamic revolution was the outcome. US "nation building" has never worked well; we need to get out of this business.
Sport, you work a part time job and you want more?
Well, my pension is not guaranteed, and I pay over $600 a month for my healthcare. And I certainly don't make even close to 6 figures, lol! But the promise of long term benefits is absolutely part of the appeal this career. Why are teachers not allowed to have these benefits? I worked just as hard as anyone else to earn my degree and beyond. The job is incredibly stressful and comes with lots of public ridicule and demoralization from folks like iJay. It's not like this is a society where you can't choose to take a career path that will benefit you. You have every right to choose to work in the public sector.
Forced payments by the taxpayers. Private sector can compensate as much as they want if they can afford via paying customers. In 2018, the benefits most public workers have far exceeds what the market pays. Your pension is not guaranteed but any way you slice it you will get a nice return even if it is transitioned. As far as working hard, I can't comment on your personal situation. I do know a teacher that couldn't cut it in the private sector; never made it higher than an administrative assistant. There are tiers of difficulty, sorry but not all jobs require the same effort and abilities. It comes down to how many people can do job X. Again, my point is from the taxpayer perspective. If you can get parents to pay $100 per hour for educating then it is none of my business...
I'm not talking about work ethic on the job. In EVERY industry, you will find slackers, hard workers, and those who fall somewhere in between. That has nothing to do with job description. That has everything to do with human nature. I worked just as hard when I was a bank manager as I do now. In every job I have ever had there were employees who worked their bums off and employees who should have been fired a hundred times over. I'm talking about my degree. To imply that teaching degrees are not legitimate is just ignorant.
Legitimate as to what - in terms of accredidation they’re certainly legitimate - in terms of business value not so much but that’s not applicable to your career choices. Public careers pay their benefits on the back end after a life of service.
We all have different deliverables that we need to complete to be successful. The current model of public education retirement system is not sustainable and a more cost effective system will need to be developed. The “civil service” can’t be sustained.
From where I sit, reading this thread (and many threads/posts since iJay joined us), iJay has as much contempt for the jews as he accuses them of having for the rest of the world. I've heard his attitude and opinion before- I have a family member who "is not a fan of the jews" for various reasons- and while there certainly is some merit in some of the points he makes (which should not surprise anyone, as everyone has SOME valid points- well, almost everyone LOL).
What I don't get is the vitriol & hatred involved. I mean, you would think the jews were rounding up Palestinians and putting them on trains. You would think Israel had designs on conquering the entire world, or something. THEN we get to the name-calling, and I'm done. Want people to not listen to you? Just start insulting them, that'll git er done right quick.
As for the anti-teachers thing, I'm actually kind of WITH him, but it's not so much the teachers- it's their union; the NEA union, both federal and state. That thing is teacher's own worst enemy, whether they realize it or not. And it wouldn't be such a vocalized issue in today's world if it didn't have huge problems... alot of people are getting fed up with the public school system, but there's not much that can be done about it (thanks to the union), and most people don't have the money to send their kids to private school.
DISCLAIMER: I have 4 teachers in my immediate family, one of whom AGREES with me, so I know at least a little of what I'm talking about. But it's not the teachers. It's union, and the teacher's ALLOWING that union to continue being what it is and doing what it does. But then it's just like politicians- they SAY they're "fighting for you", so you keep letting them, meanwhile the country continues it's death spiral.
A friend of mine was telling me back on June 6th- his son's school didn't even mention D-Day (they DO still teach history, I hope?) , but had PLENTY to say about the NFL Eagles not going to the Whitehouse. How about we TEACH our children, instead of INDOCTRINATING them?
I agree with the teachers' union being a big part of the problem. But ultimately, it comes down to the voters. If the teachers' union is demanding too much compensation, for teachers, then the voters (through their elected officials) need to say, "No." And if the teachers go on strike, the voters need to say, "Get back to work, or we will determine that you voluntarily quit your job. You will never be hired for another government job, you will not receive any unemployment benefits, and we will advise any of your future employers that you quit your job without notice." And the same should go for the unions of any other government employees. And it needn't only be about compensation--it can be issues of employee safety, tenure, etc.
Sure, one time, a union and employees will test the voters by striking anyway, and it will cause some temporary chaos. But fire them all, and it will never happen again. Problem solved.
JerseyWolf "Yes, that's why we need online voting where we can get 98% voter participation."
And exponentially more corruption (read: control) than we currently have in our voting system. No thanks. You SHOULD be required to get up off your ass and go to the polls. (and for those who can't, like the elderly, there are absentee ballots, churches providing transportation to the polls, etc.)
"Goeagles you are hilarious. Your $100 estimate does not include down time or travel right. People pay for 1,2,3 hours with the travel in between on your own dime."
Again with the baseless assumptions. You don't know if I travel, work for a tutoring business, or the number of hours I work.
iJay on teacher compensation from February 2018:
"80k is nothing. It used to be DOUBLE in total compensation -- 160k before my man Christie made teachers contribute to their medical. Probably more like 150k now."
So based on what the market is willing to pay me, it looks like total compensation is pretty much spot on.
"a fake NJEA Zombie like Goeagles"
The NJEA didn't negotiate that price for me but that doesn't really fit into your belief system. When you resort to name calling, you're losing the argument. The market has spoken. You still believe in the market, right?
"I want to know who is desperate enough to pay $100/hr for tutoring! Am I the only one who thinks that’s insane?"
Parents that like to see their children score 5s on an APUSH exam.
JR, I have come to the point of name calling with IJ. There’s no excuse for a Holocaust denier. The pathetic statement of trying to lower the numbers is downright disgusting. I don’t care if it were 100,000! The atrocities perpetrated on the victims of the Nazis is unforgivable. Only a neoNazi would try to diminish the Holocaust in this way.
There’s nothing IJay can say that has any value once statements such as that are made. I’m sure even Charles Manson made sense once in a while but that doesn’t mean society should have accepted him.
Suze https://www.princetonreview.com/college/ap-tutoring-course?ceid=ap-article-body#!inperson
yeah PR gets $167 - but thats a fully burdened rate with about 50% GM after EBIT.
most folks working for someone else get $25 - $50
https://www.indeed.com/q-Ap-History-Tutor-jobs.html
https://www.indeed.com/salaries/Tutor-Salaries?from=serpsalaryblock
It's doable apparently if you have the resources to bring in clients - I have to imagine it's a tough business and very difficult to book a 40 hour week
Hey, Jay, I don't hold those biblical beliefs that you're demeaning. I do, however, have common sense and decency which you sorely lack.
Thank you Skippy, Goeagles, realistically, you are full of baloney...
JYM, do you believe in Greek mythology? I like the stories but they are stories. I doubt today you would offend anyone in Greece claiming they were stories, that Zeus does not exist. The Bible is the same...
"Goeagles, realistically, you are full of baloney"
This is what the market pays. Learn to accept what you can't control.
In Warren County, no way. Morris maybe but you would need to give discounts for more than one hour. One hour tutoring might be 1 hour of travel back and forth. Show me how you make $800 billable a day week in and week out, LOL...
What are you babbling about? You've completely lost the plot, jay. Reading comprehension is taught in elementary school. Did you fail? Maybe that's why the hate on for teachers too. You truly need help.
I understand where I jay is coming from . The Jews were Gods chosen people so he dislikes both of them. Its not easy putting your faith in Caesar.
Old Gent You consistently claim that teachers would not be paid much in the private sector. This is what I get in the private sector. I never claimed to tutor full time but given that I can make that money negates your claim that our skills are worthless to the market.
I'd only tutor in eastern Morris. Poor folks like you can't afford me.
NO. If you can make $100 here and there does not project to making that for 8 billable hours per day. If you do make $100 (more like $75) you have fewer customers that can pay and it is likely 1 hour shots so it really is 2 hours of your time, or $50 per hour.
Poor? Nope...
Now iJay is an expert on educational economics in northern New Jersey. Grasping at straws is all he can do. He really is a sad and miserable little man. I bet his family can't stand listening to him speak on any topic so he just rants online to strangers.
happybdaycalico “educational economics in northern New Jersey”
That’s an easy one: more, more, more!
;-)
How many hours per year does Goeagles actually work tutoring, yet she projects that to 40 hour weeks. She mentioned Eastern Morris, towns like Chatham and the like. If you don't live nearby it is 2 hours there and back. This has nothing to do with tutoring, rather a person that provides a service at peoples' homes. Understand?
Bye bye 4catmom...
"How many hours per year does Goeagles actually work tutoring, yet she projects that to 40 hour weeks. She mentioned Eastern Morris, towns like Chatham and the like. If you don't live nearby it is 2 hours there and back."
1. I already teach in the area (not for long, I'll be poolside for the summer)
2. You asked for the market value of a teacher and tutoring best exemplifies that value, whether it be in a home or at a business. The answer is 100/hr, whether that's 1 hour per day or 8.
3. What does the commuting distance have to do with anything?
4. It's strange how much this bothers you, understand?
"She...Bye bye 4catmom..."
More baseless assumptions. You have no idea who I am. At this point, I'm embarrassed for you.
Goeagles, you should be embarrassed for yourself if you really are a teacher. Based upon your logic presented in your posts you are not fit to teach anyone.
Really iJay?
Your are going to resort to personal attacks now......that will CERTAINLY get your point across!
Your actions prove that teachers should be paid more.....because they have to deal with B.S. like THIS! What other job is under constant attack? (other then politicians)
Ijay, The point was that you made a claim that teachers could never work in the private sector and goeagles told you that they already run their own side business of tutoring...question answered...why do you keep trying to poke holes?
Nobody said she tutors 8 hours per day....nobody said it was a sustainable income...goeagles was simply referring to what people are willing to PAY per hour for a teacher in the private sector...which is exactly what you asked.
Agust "happybdaycalico = online name mocking another = top miserable person on HL..."
What a Rorschach test my online name turned out to be for iJay. Way to see the negative in everything. Such a sad existence.
Agust
Maybe the gym teachers. The rest would not be in physical shape to handle 80 lb bags of concrete all day long.
Not their fault, however. They did not choose a physically hard career. Their chances of having back, knee and hip problems are less (unless they are overweight/arthritis, etc)
Even with these conditions, they can continue to work as the majority of their work itself is mental and not physical.
Can't say the same thing for a mason (although a mason does need to have good mental skills as well).
"Based upon your logic presented in your posts you are not fit to teach anyone."
Baseless accusations.
"Your actions prove that teachers should be paid more" LOL Dqrrin
Ok, explain what happybdaycalico means?
http://www.hackettstownlife.com/forum/851612
Cuts on the way teachers!
Learn about checks and balances. My man Phil has our back.
Have fun going to work tomorrow, iJay. Partly sunny and in the 80s. Perfect pool weather.
“IJay, you do realize teachers *chose* their profession, right?”
3wbdwnj, you do realize teachers salaries are forcibly taken from their students families, right?
Pretty sure that’s always been the underlying reason for iJays views.
"Relax over the next 10 weeks, because it is all about the children right?"
Nope. It's about me.
"you do realize teachers salaries are forcibly taken from their students families, right?"
Move to a state with low taxes and terrible schools. Why keep living here if you hate it so much?
Hasn't always been this way. Overcompensation started circa 1980. It will be "curbed'...
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