Air Traffic Controller Test Changed
I found this story to be amazing and a perfect representation of democratic/socialist politics we are dealing with today. Under the Obama administration the air traffic controller screening was changed. Needless to say air traffic controllers have to be the best, they are under incredible pressure in a high stress environment and cannot make mistakes, ever, without possible catastrophic results.
The test was changed to include a "Biographical Questionnaire".
Some of the questions included.
What was your weakest subject in high school ?
1 -Math 2 - Science 3 - English 4 - Social Studies
If you answer math or science as your weakest subject you win. We want you.
Are you currently employed or unemployed ?
If you answer employed you lose points. We want people who are on the couch.
Do you have any civilian or military aviation experience
If you answer yes - That is the wrong answer.
Are you a pilot
If you answer yes... not good...
It was amazing to me that this could possibly be true but it appears this was the solution that was arrived at to solve the problem of the Air Traffic Control System being "too" white.
As a active pilot when I am flying in bad weather in the NY area I want the very, very best person in that chair. I do not care what color they are, or anything other then them keeping my contact from hitting another contact on that screen.
Next time you are sitting on a flight think of this article. What else was quietly changed under our noses without ever being exposed.
https://www.theblaze.com/news/2018/06/02/obama-era-faa-hiring-rules-placed-air-traffic-controller-diversity-ahead-of-safety-lawyer-says
Mark Great topic. I saw this news story and was thinking how nice travel by train might be.
Rebecka 
4catmom Oh god, you have a pilot's license. That's a sure sign the government did something wrong!
alpha1beta What a response alpha1beta, made without substance, knowledge, background. Just a blabbering comment that does nothing to add to the conversation.
Let me guess tolerant left.
I find it funny that since a pilot never sees the air traffic controller on the other end of the mic that race is an issue.
You want the best, do a blind interview. Ask no race "bias" questions and do a test run of an average 20 minutes as a air traffic controller.
I really don't understand the need to hire based on 'diversity', either someone is qualified for the job or they are not. Of those that are qualified who is the best fit with what the duties they are required to perform to their skill set. What is so hard about that?
Chefs are mostly men, that's not a sexist thing. Men are the most prominent majority in culinary school, does that mean restaurants shouldn't hire men if a woman applies? Most Pilots are white men? Ok so it's no big surprise there are more white men working as ATC.
Having not grown up in the US I really find the whole "race is a huge deal" topics so distracting. You seriously can't discuss anything without someone ready to accuse you of being racist, and that wasn't the case 15 years ago.
SiryaI want more Jews in the NBA. I feel Jews as a people are underrepresented as basketball players. Can we please get some affirmative action and diversity maneuvers going to make this happen? Where is the ACLU when you need them?
Is there a legit source for this story? The only two places I found it were not exactly sources I would rely on.
Aquarius Here is an Attorney that is suing the FAA over this. Legit, I think so.
http://video.foxnews.com/v/5793540615001/?#sp=show-clips
kb2755 Rebecka - Yes! Jews are totally underrepresented in sports in general. Me and one of my Jewish friends always joke about this clip from the movie Airplane.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxqjsyfbcd4
Calico696 https://youtu.be/qh9SxqsQdpo
Tucker did a segment on it - nobody from the FAA is calling shenanigans
Licensed pilots have been saying this since 2015
https://forums.jetcareers.com/threads/cheating-in-the-new-faa-biographical-questionnaire-exposed.219251/page-2
Skippy 
rleaf Rleaf it is obvious you are from the left because you consider fox news as not reputable, and I can imagine that the very idea of this story being true is shocking to the moderate left. But this IS the socialist/democratic party of today.
So here is another source. This is not a news website, it is InsideHigherEd.com which bills itself as
Inside Higher Ed is the leading digital media company serving the higher education space
Here is a article speaking about how Air Traffic Controller Programs at various colleges are closing because the 2014 changes to the FAA screen have deemed college trained students as unacceptable.
https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2015/09/23/collegiate-air-traffic-controller-programs-struggle-stay-relevant-after-faa-hiring
I wish people would spend more time absorbing the impact of what is going on around them.
Questionnaires on the application are one thing - the actual selection process is another animal altogether.
Being 1 of 16 that were selected from 20,000 applicants, I went to the FAA Air Traffic Control Training Center in Oklahoma City. (granted many moons ago). Never knew there were even ATC programs in colleges, don't need them really, they cannot teach innate ability.
After you make it through the application/selection test, the hiring process takes another 2 months to complete - 1st month book work (learning rules, strip reading **, regulations, etc.) - Aced it (yeah, me) - 2nd month practicals - using strip reading to determine aircraft location and give them directions. I bombed (booo) --- and thus was not hired.
To be a successful control you must be able to think in 3-dimensions --- I think a better question for the test would be "What level of Halo 3 have you achieved" --- those are the people you want controlling traffic.
And yes, more men did better than women, but there were several women that were hired.
2 classmates I remember most:
1) A guy that needed a 67 on the last test (not really a final, just happened to be the last test) and thank you Jesus he got a 65. Totally didn't trust him.
2) A guy that bombed the 1st month but was brilliant at controlling traffic. Instructor singled him out and said 'I can't pass you, but test again in 6 months and come back, you were meant to do this' --- I hope he did.
All the questions in the world on the application have no real bearing on who actually gets hired, might get you in the door, but if you don't back it up with actual skill, you're out on your butt anyway. If you're really that talented, then there would be nothing stopping you.
** re: Strip Reading - If you see a news video showing the inside of an Air Traffic Control Center, you see the radar screen and right next to it columns of 2'inch x 8'inch (approx.) strips of paper. These strips are generated for each and every aircraft and a controller marks on the strip its vital information (alt, heading, etc.) so that if the power goes out on the radar, the controllers still know where every aircraft is. See this article on Wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_progress_strip
trekster3~ Seems like a politically motivated article to me. Exaggerated too, if the following is indeed true:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2018/05/31/would-pilots-be-able-to-navigate-successfully-without-air-traffic-controllers/amp/
justintime Of course it does JIT, from your previous posts I would not expect you to think any differently.
The article you posted is true. ADS-B is here, I have it in what I fly and it does a great job of alerting me to traffic and providing updated information. You still need controllers today and will for a very long time. All planes are not required to have ADS. Icing levels and weather change far more quickly then data can be currently uploaded to devices. They are needed to assist with emergencies, to clear airways and runways to report current weather at a emergency airport destinations. Suffice it to say, TODAY and for the foreseeable future controllers will be here and essential
Of course your post has absolutely NOTHING to do the original discussion that standards were changed for a vital function that millions of peoples lives depend on for the sake of being politically correct. And of course these changes were pushed by the socialist/progressives.
"I wish people would spend more time absorbing the impact of what is going on around them." - Mark
I wish this every minute of every day!
Calico - love it! One of my favorite movies.
Trekster - very interesting to hear from someone who went through actual testing, about what it's really like. Re: your video games analogy - I read, and a Marine I know confirmed, that controllers to operate some drones in the military have been designed to replicate certain video game joystick controllers, so the operators would be familiar with them, because people who qualify for the jobs of operating military drones are often those who excelled at video games when younger. So your Halo 3 analogy is spot on!
Politically motivated, JIT? Really? And the affirmative action that may put millions of lives is danger was not? And "exaggerated?" The technology for ATC-less approaches to major hubs is NOT in place yet! One day it may be, and of course we are getting closer every day, but to say that "one day" ATC will not be needed, so there is nothing to worry about here is ridiculous.
There is no good reply from the left to this news, so they can only attack the sources, and here, the OP on this thread. The reason this is not being carried in left-wing publications is because obviously they don't want to cover it, because they'd rather not have everyone criticizing it.
4catmom - please say what you think about the facts here? Are you ok with the way new air traffic controllers will be selected? Your posts don't add to the discussion -- except to express your displeasure that the subject of affirmative action is being discussed IMHO. I would really love a substantive post from someone on the left, possibly explaining why this is ok.
I once held the job of communicating with and directing air traffic at a pretty busy county airport in upstate New York. All I can say is: I want the most qualified person directing air traffic on the ground when I land at EWR, and I don't care about gender, skin color, religion, athletic ability, previous employment status, how they did in science class in HS, or any other BS. Hiring should be based on qualifications, not quotas -- in aviation, the NBA, and everywhere else. Period.
Okay - this seems to be the story: Essential Information
An air traffic controller directs and monitors aircraft, maintains safety, and informs pilots about weather conditions and flight paths. Some controllers direct aircraft through airspace, while other controllers regulate arrivals and departures. The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) employs most air traffic controllers and usually requires them to complete training at the FAA academy.
Required Education Combination of 2-4 years of post-secondary education and experience
Other Requirements Pass Air Traffic Standardized Aptitude Test (AT-SAT); complete 2-5 months training at FAA Academy
Certification Must obtain Air Traffic Control Tower Operator Certificate to work independently
Projected Job Growth (2014-2024)* -9%
Average Salary (2015)* $122,950
Source:*U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics
Salary of an Air Traffic Controller
According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS), the average annual salary of an air traffic controller in May 2015 was $122,950. The average annual salary of an air traffic controller employed by the federal government was $122,310 in the same year (ww.bls.gov). The BLS states that in 2015, the federal government employed 20,370 of the country's 23,130 air traffic controllers. Employment of air traffic controllers is expected to decrease by 9% between 2014 and 2024, according to the BLS, and job competition is expected to be high.
Duties of an Air Traffic Controller
Air traffic controllers regulate air traffic either within an airport's airspace or air traffic between airports. They communicate weather changes, visibility issues, wind conditions and nearby aircraft to pilots, using radar, computers or visuals to monitor aircraft in the assigned airspace. Air traffic controllers may give landing and departure authorization and instructions. They may also determine and direct flight path changes as necessary. Controllers supervise ground traffic, such as baggage vehicles, airport workers and taxiing airplanes.
Requirements of an Air Traffic Controller
Most air traffic controllers are employed through the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA). Controllers employed by the FAA must be U.S. citizens and pass a background investigation and medical examination.
There are three ways to become an air traffic controller with the FAA. The first option is to gain military experience as an air traffic controller. The second is to complete an aviation degree at a college or university through the FAA's Air Traffic Collegiate Training Initiative program. The final option is to complete either three years of progressively responsible job experience, a bachelor's degree or a combination of the two. Those who fulfill the requirements of either of the latter two options will also be required to attend the FAA's Air Traffic Control Academy, which takes several weeks or months to complete. Students in this program are reimbursed for living costs.
Air traffic controllers work shift work and their job requires total concentration at all times. This is a high-stress field that is currently experiencing job decline, and those planning to become air traffic controllers will face a lot of competition for available jobs.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/affirmative-action-lands-in-the-air-traffic-control-tower-1433283292
well - looks like it made the WSJ. real now?
what does the job description have to do with the requirement to complete a “biographical questionnaire” as part of the application process.
The Biographical Assessment was launched in February 2014.
Out of approximately 28,000 applicants for air traffic control, less than 3,000 people passed the assessment.
Many of the failed applicants were current air traffic controllers and some even previous FAA air traffic controllers.
here are the questions..
https://www.stuckmic.com/faa-air-traffic-control-general-discussion/25367-biographical-questions.html#post274120
Mark, it's obvious that you make assumptions without knowing - and chose to dismiss questions that you don't like as being biased as you have no response. I will say, however, that I do think that Fox news is highly biased - as is MSNBC, CNN, etc etc... so produce something that is from a less, clearly politically motivated news source and I will certainly read and evaluate - otherwise, you are just another mouthpiece with an agenda who makes assumptions about others and dismisses people with perspectives you don't agree with -
Wall Steet Journal article:
https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/the-airport-control-tower-is-no-place-for-racial-redress-1528240025
The American Thinker article:
https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2018/06/affirmative_action_in_the_control_tower.html
Aero-news Network article:
http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?do=main.textpost&id=26d6cb44-6714-42e3-99fc-3f3274086cfc
Chicago Tribune articles:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-air-traffic-controller-hiring-met--20140919-story.html
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2014-05-27/news/ct-air-traffic-hires-controllers-met-0512-20140527_1_the-faa-veteran-controllers-air-traffic-controller
.../...
And how about a NY Post article just for fun, too?
https://nypost.com/2016/01/03/the-quota-driven-drive-to-make-flying-more-perilous/
It would be great get one comment from someone on the left on the actual issue at hand (affirmative action in regards to the hiring of air traffic controllers), instead of various non-replies and attacking of sources and posters.
So far we've got zip.
Thank you Rebecca, amazing how liberals think... Liberalism is truly a mental disorder.
.
I wouldn't say "mental disorder," Mark. I'd say many people on both "sides" in this country have simply become very entrenched in their positions. They can no longer either entertain the concept that something their "side" espouses might be questionable, or they are simply too lazy to question anything. In this particular thread, I'm frustrated that no who holds that affirmative action is a good thing will step up and defend their position regarding ATCs.
Totally agree with you Rebecca. That is the scary thing, no matter how shocking something may be it is supported and defended without question. One thing can be said about the democrat/socialists is that they stand together, always united, defending anything no matter how crazy. If they cannot defend it with facts or common sense they ridicule and name call or riot. This is a serious problem for both sides. People have to stop being sheep.
do i have to read the info in the links? reading the words above, most of this seems plausible. seems there are a few "standard" or "obvious" ways of getting applicants, and then, likely because there was not enough qualified applicants (though that's just a guess), there is an alternative path to getting more diverse applicants. diversity in thought background is good, as long as the outcome is of high quality. so its the final selection process, which requires excellent specific actions of applicants, that's critical. is there something that contradicts that?
the only piece i personally don't agree with (though again, it's just my opinion), is that "democrat / socialists stand together." that is absolutely not the case. one could make the case that if that were true, those people would have banded together for clinton and not stuck with sanders or stein. i would say its the republican / conservative who can unite with someone if they agree with much (or 1 thing) they like. as a democrat, i wish we were more supportive of similar but not the same people.
Ken, the problem was totally the opposite of not having enough qualified applicants.
They're colleges that provide 2 and 4 year degree programs (Collegiate Training Initiative CTI) specifically geared to train air traffic control candidates. The original lawsuit was brought about because when they began this new screening almost all of the individuals that went through these programs, who were good at math and science, and now had ATC knowledge were deemed no longer acceptable . I was speaking to a friend of mine last evening who works as a controller now and he said that thousands of qualified people were just removed from the candidates list. Students graduating from a CTI program at a college , which was developed by the FAA would now find it almost impossible to pass the biographical screening. My buddy said he as a friend with more then 20 years experience as a military air traffic controller and he cannot get hired because of this screen.
again, just because you didn't seem to get it, and made assumptions, clearly demonstrating your pre-set opinions. I asked for less biased descriptions of this, Mark, and you assumed that because I asked for a less biased approach, I was of a particular political slant - so not true, I was simply being responsible and trying to be sure that I wasn't presented with ONLY a biased opinion - as is commonly the case - and as is the news source you originally cited - Rebecka helpfully provided many more - btw, I do not agree with most affirmative action hirings!
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