Starbucks temporarily closing 8000 stores
Personally I find this to be hilariously ironic. The corporate bastion of liberal progressive values being eaten by its own.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/starbucks-to-close-8000-us-stores-for-racial-bias-training/ar-AAvZ695?ocid=spartandhp
Denis what I find ironic is how they left is all like 'hey man it's cool' 'do whatever you like man' 'we gotta help everyone dude'
unless you are the police, gun owner, unborn baby, a republican or the church!
scottso What exactly is ironic? They are voluntarily closing stores to train their staff in something that is a major issue in society. This is the same company that spends hundreds of millions of dollars helping their employees get a college education. I think this shows that they are actually committed to their ideals and making a positive impact on society.
Reasonable 
Skippy The irony which I think is pretty self evident, is that they are being forced to do this by protests from the fellow liberals. You call it voluntary, and being committed to their values, I call Starbucks corporation trying to stop the bleeding and bad publicity.
I agree there is nothing voluntary about this. Just another company backtracking their poor business practices in an attempt to fool the populous into spending $6 on their overly fattening coffee beverages. Hope they go the way of Toys R Us. People should boycott and bury them.
Don 
JeffersonRepub I have only been in there store once. I didn't like there coffee or there prices. Never went back.
Old Gent 
Ollie Not half as ironic as the right who claim to support law enforcement and soldiers but are now denigrating theFBI and Mueller.
They might as well take a kneel ona football field because for all their griping about BLM they are just as bad, if not worse.
DocMartin Just using the word racist makes me upset. Aren't we all (including Obama) mixed races?
I get tired of hearing people on the news calling racism
If you go to ANY restaurant or diner, you can't just hang out and order nothing!!!
I wish people would just be courteous and follow the rules.
The news needs to stop the race baiting.
And Starbucks was dumb to order this training.
Older Mom I’m still stuck on Starbucks being a symbol for the progressive movement or the left. Now that’s some irony.
Strangerdanger I have never chosen to buy a cup of coffee anywhere based on the terms "liberal" or conservative."
I walk into a diner, I don't know how the person who owns the place voted?
When I go for coffee, I go where I like it, or where it's priced right for me.
What happened in that Starbucks could happen anywhere- ALL of today's businesses are at a risk by "rogue" employees to do something that can get them trashed on social media.
They are also at risk of a "false" situation posted on social media to make them look bad. A vomit story, a bug story, etc. Does not even have to be real. Make something up , post it, plenty of haters for any particular business, off you go. I've seen attacks on local businesses right here on this forum.
Making my coffee right now at home...
Dodgebaal 
noreaster " I think this shows that they are actually committed to their ideals and making a positive impact on society."
LOL. They are "interested in" MAKING MONEY, and bad press of this type is not good for sales.
What's unreasonable is the msm ignoring all of the facts and jumping to the conclusion that everything is racism. It really dilutes issues of real racism.
https://whyy.org/segments/as-fallout-over-starbucks-arrests-continues-philly-police-chief-stands-by-cops/
Woot 
This really shows how disingenuous Starbucks is a company. Not the fact that their employees called the police on 2 men who were trespassing... but the fact that the corporate hq took a strong position before investigating what happened.
I have no idea what happened, but it seems at least possible that those men were creating a problem serious enough to get the police involved since an arrest was effected upon their arrival It doesn't seem likely that upper management had time to interview anyone at all.
Their knee-jerk response reveals that ideology is far more important to them than truth
Yeah, free training instead of work, those bastards! How dare they offer training, msm stooges. Don’t they know how weak this looks. How unfair to their workers. Oh the horror if ut all....
It’s certaily good from an employee slack perspective but it definitely effects shareholder value
So anyone can walk in to a Starbucks sit down for 2 hours, take a dump in the bathroom, and not buy a thing. It they are a person of color, and you ask them to leave and they won't and you call the police you are a racist. Now if you accuse someone of loitering in a place of business while they are loitering in a place of business your a racist. Now employees will be required to take "unconscious bias" training LOL!!. I revel in the fact this is taking place in Starbucks, one of my favorite news stories of the year! Keep the boycott going.
I have used the restroom in Starbucks without buying a thing on multiple occasions, never a weird look. I would be surprised if any busy employee noticed whether a person sitting at a table was a customer or not, at any of the ones I’ve been to. (Causing a disturbance usually means doing something “disturbing.”)
kepaI like an occasional visit to SBs and have sat there...worked on-line...sipped a coffee for hours and pee'd there many times. I always buy a single shot espresso and can get a free refill of ice tea or a regular coffee 'cause I have a member card and use the app on my phone to pay. I wish they had lemon slices for the ice tea tho....
hipstr Skippy - how do you know they didn't investigate and it was knee jerk? The incident happened on April 12th and they announced this bias training a few days after. How long does it take to investigate??
MB I read the stories, and think either there will be more forthcoming or something sounds a bit amiss.
First, we have two black guys in Rittenhouse square waiting for a friend. They seem nice enough, not street thugs.
An SB employee asks them to leave and when they won't, calls police on loiterers. The call comes in minutes after the customers arrive at SB.
Police come, decide immediately they are loiterers, and take them to jail.
The employee seems to have done their job, the police seemed to do their job, but the customers don't seem to be scofflaw homeless loiterers either. Why was there this rush to judgements?
Weird. I mean could this have happened to any of us? I don't think so. Is it because we are white --- I doubt it. I think it's because it would have never gotten to the jail part, something would have diffused the situation --- like buying a freakin cup of coffee. Where was the request and denial to buy a cup of coffee? Why didn't the police just get them to buy coffee or leave? I mean no purchase, no sit, is pretty much the law of the land if the business wishes to push it. But these guys were just waiting a few minutes for their party so would having a cup of coffee really put them out or were they always planning to meet their friend without buying anything? How could the purchase or lack of purchase of a cup of coffee resulted in jail time?
However the really freaky part was being released from jail post midnight --- now that's a creepy situation if you have ever been in center city after dark. Why were they held so long?
So I say there's more to tell here. Regardless, I still say a day of training is always a good thing, a great response to diffuse this situation going forward, and the only ones with knotted knickers weren't drinkin SB's or investing anyways.
The better question is why were the bathrooms locked?.. requiring a employee to buzz them in
Philadelphia Police Commissioner just apologized to those two men who were arrested. Just saying....trying to make nice. 1pm, Thursday.
GranMom In today's world, the two men in Starbucks were lucky they weren't shot dead in the street by the police for loitering.
Bug3, news of unlocked bathrooms probably travels fast among the homeless community.
ianimal Ok so I’m gonna use the NPR link to avoid bias complaints
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/04/14/602556973/starbucks-police-and-mayor-weigh-in-on-controversial-arrest-of-2-black-men-in-ph
It wasn’t a call for loitering - they trespassed and we’re alleged to be boligerant.
“Commissioner Richard Ross confirmed that on Thursday afternoon at 4:40 p.m., Philadelphia police received a 911 call from the Starbucks at 18th and Spruce Streets alleging disturbance and trespassing.”
They were asked at least 4 times to leave and didn’t .
“Ross also said the two men refused to leave after being asked three times by police officers.”
Sounds like folks who play stupid games win stupid prizes...they were taking up resources for paying coustomers - hence why Starbucks had this policy.
Apparently Starbucks refused to press charges and they were released - 2 days later the CEO apologized and the manager was fired. All well and good but the employee was enforcing a policy they created and paid with their job.
I just happen to feel them foolish to succumb to the virtue signaling of the MSM and the left. I personally think it’s hilarious that “liberal’ companies with ‘woke’ leaders” are being attacked by their own.
1). “Hi. We are just waiting for friend. We’ll be gone soon. This was just our meetup spot. Thanks”
Or
2). “Listen MFer, we are waitin here. No I ain’t buyin NOTHING from this place. Ain’t nothing you can do about it either. Haha! ”
Since no business is going to just randomly throw these guys out, I guarantee it went more like option 2. But now they have their polo shirts on and love milk, cookies, church and community.
I was in the Starbucks inside the Morris Plains Barnes & Noble about 2 years ago. A young white man was asked to leave by the manager because he had finished his PURCHASE. He left. End. Of. Story. When people act civilized society functions as it should.
JYM It wasn't random, it was store policy not set by Starbuck's. When entering the store one of them men asked to use the restroom. They were told no that they has to order something. They sat down and the manager came over and asked if they would order anything. When they said no as they were waiting for one more person for a business meeting there. They were asked to leave and said they were waiting and would not leave. The manager called the police to have them removed. The were never belligerent or threatening. They cooperated fully with the arrest. Of course SiaP feels the same way the manager felt about two black guys as the #2 never happened. The video clearly shows #1 so SiaP keep your prejudices to yourself, putting them on a public forum makes you look like someone who has a racist view or two.
MK Skippy, the police clarified his statement the next day as everyone took it the cops did nothing wrong. He elaborated on what he meant as being they were following procedure but he has to define policy better for them as there never should have been an arrest in that situation. It is not anyone bending over backwards for anyone.
This is how every well dressed successful entrepreneur dresses for a business meeting with real estate investors. Hopefully he can swing a big real estate deal then he can buy a pair of pants, and a cup of coffee.
Wow. I almost forgot how republican and/or racist some in this town can be. I grew up here and went to college in NYC. While doing so, I lived in an where I was the minority and I was surrounded by many different cultures. That was, by far, the best learning experience of my life. Even more than college itself. I am so thankful for that time because now, after moving back home, I can see true ignorance. When you know what it’s like to live in this country in THEIR shoes then maybe your opinion will matter.
Side note- I have sat in that same SB waiting for a drunk friend to use the bathroom and getting warm without buying a thing. Not a negative word was said.
Also, there were witnesses in that SB that said the boys weren’t doing anything wrong.
Do you know how many times I’ve gone into a SB in Bergen county during the hour that school lets out and it’s like high school hang out of totally obnoxious kids with their iPhones playing videos out loud and girls yelling at and teasing boys... for hours. Not a word is said unless someone there doing business speaks up. Please.... open your damn eyes.
WakeUp JYM,
I guess tables and chairs are meant for sitting and having your coffee. I never knew they were decoration pieces. Thanks for reminding that they are decoration show piece in SB. It's the customer's call whether he wanted to have his coffee inside SB or in his car. Don't try to convince us that the SB manager told the young white male that "you got you coffee,now get out of here". It can only be true when buying through a drive through.
Let's give this a thought.
Till the early 60's a black man wouldn't dare to sit next to a white man in a coffee shop, 60's feels like yesterday. If MLK wasn't born or didn't take up the cause of civil equality, maybe, till today or the 1970s 1980s, a black man wouldn't STILL have dared to sit next to a white in public places. These young generation of African Americans' parents live through segregation,their forefathers- maybe grest grandparents through slavery.
I don't blame anyone today for the past. Today's generations of Americans have nothing to do with the past. Past is history and taught in schools and colleges,not only in America but abroad. Lincoln's civil war and MLK's civil rights movement are taught everywhere in the world. People look up to american sacrifices to become the country that it is today. Slavery is history and so is segregation because of effort and sacrifices of lives of great americans of all races,be it lincoln leading civil war or MLK. America has moved forward with the pledge for equality for all,it's time to move forward with values of the present and what history taught us. God bless America
FlyingMonk So now if you are not wearing a suit and buying a $6 cup of overpriced bitter brew you are not entitled to respect?.
If you go into a coffee shop buy a cup of coffee, not too much to ask. If you want me to believe that he was waiting there dressed like that to make a real estate deal that would change his "life forever" I have a fish hatchery adjacent to my backyard for sale. Reduced price for a quick cash sale.
Denis,
Why are you obsessed with what his profession is? You are not his boss nor his dad. I read he and his were waiting for the real estate agent who is the white man(came in jeans and jackets) to confront the cops. The guy you shown on your sarcastic message is a finance student.
Your racial prejudice rattles me. Who cares what those guys wear? It's none of our business to judge them or anyone by their clothes. Their real estate manager came in a jeans,not suit!
Some wise men have always said not to judge a book by its cover, same quote applies for human too.
All I wanted you to know is they were their to meet their real estate agent, a white male, who came dressed up just like them.
I met my real estate agent in McDonald's, didn't buy anything, dressed in flip flops and shorts. I guess I should have been arrested waiting for the agent to come.
You were loitering. If mcdonalds asked you to leave and you refused you would be treapasssing. If they called the police and you refused again to leave you will certainly be arrested. Why is this shocking to anyone?
If you owned and operated a business would you not reserve the right to restrict access to restrooms and seating for your customers?
In this particular store, the guidelines were that employees must ask unpaying customers to leave the store, and police were to be called if they refused - most likely because it’s a busy location and they need the space for people who pay - regardless of their race.
"Wow. I almost forgot how republican and/or racist some in this town can be."
Pretty sure no one announced or implied any politics affiliations during this conversation. But your assertion that any one who disagrees with your position must be republican and therefore racist is kind of something a bigot would say.
Pot meets kettle.
And before anyone starts with the scripted comebacks, Disclosure I'm not a republican nor do I watch fox news .
"Not every Republican is a racist but if you're a racist and you're looking for a political party, the GOP is the obvious choice." - Bill Maher
If that Starbucks didn’t have a policy that restrooms are for customers why did they have coded locks installed on the restrooms necessitating a purchase to get the code? Do you think the employees did this of their own volition ? Use logic here.
These gentleman escalated the situation on their own four times and clearly got the outcome they were seeking.
justintime A patron in the restaurant at the time stated that she was given bathroom access and had not yet made purchase. Another claims they had not been kicked out after being there a while without buying anything. If you have a policy, and only use it to exclude certain people, then it is a tool that allows for racism. Can you be arrested for trespassing? Of course. But if someone feels they are being unfairly treated, amen that they stood up for equal treatment! If only a hundred Starbucks employees get something from the training, it's worth it.
And is it a crime to want to wash your hands before you eat?
maja2 "Quoting a comedian for position support????"
It doesn't make him wrong and attacking a source is an easy way to avoid refuting the actual idea in the quote.
Ok - so we agree that a policy existed.
Is it possible that as was reported via 911 the gentleman were creating a disturbance?
We are completely ignoring the fact that the manager utilized her discretion to contact the police for whatever reason.
The police utilized discretion upon their arrival and effected an arrest - why? Is it possible they felt the complaint credible?
You’re completely negating the fact that the gentleman in question could have deeacalated the situation at any time and refused to do so.
Skippy,
Do you even know what is meant by policies of a company? Policies are meant to be applied ALL THE TIME,I mean it ALL THE TIME and made for EVERYONE- BLACK,BROWN, WHITE. Policies are NOT MADE so some employees can use when he felt it's appropriate to apply his discretion on someone.
There was another video of SB where a black man was not allowed to enter a washrooms without buying but a white man came out of washrooms without buying anything. When this black man asked that white man how he did it, other guy replied I don't know, I was told I can use it.
So making a policy that employees can make on their personal discretion is BS.
In another case in seacacus,NJ, an la fitness manager called cops on a black member of 8 years and his friend who was using a valid guest card,valid for 4 days. The manager accused them of not paying their dues, another case of personal discretion on policy decision based on skin color. Cops came and refused to arrest the two men after they verified the customers had no dues. That manager and a few others are fired for good.
That's WHY I keep saying SB is liable to lawsuits easily. The CEO knows better, he rushed to the gentlemen. if this case was brought to court, I bet you these two victims would be multi-millionaire.
The police did what they were supposed to do, removing someone from a property on complaint of owners. I never blamed the cops.
How do you know that the policy wasn’t enforced all the time, but everyone else just left without getting arrested?
Mark Mc. 
iJay I think bathroom social injustice is much more exciting in the Carolinas! :>)
Ha true fact - HB2 got Repealed.
so it’s ok to change a policy ex post facto and throw the employee under the bus for enforcing it?
You have no logical or ethical standing here guys. You don’t get to come into a place of business use stuff and remain after being asked to leave by the proprietor.
Hey if you guys wanna call one of the most “progressive” democrat supporting companies prevalently racist go for it. What’s more reasonable to believe is the store was busy and they wanted the space.
Always love the duopolists who parrot (fill in celebrity/politician/tv talking head here), those folks who make a living by feeding us their daily dose of hate/angst/fear mongering/the-world-is-ending/add your trigger here bs.
Seriously though, the world is a big place and racism is NOT the driving force in it. It’s not. Repeat after me: Racusm does NOT drive the world. Idiots do!
Sure racism is out there as a commonly identified source of idiotic judgement, but so are a great many other things. Instead of listening to some idiot on the tele or radio or YouTube telling you what to think how about looking at reality?
When you go out into the world what are the odds you'll encounter racism? Once a day? Once a week? Once a month? Once a year? How often? I rarely encounter it in my life, and when i do it’s easily bitten in the arse with the simplest of arguments. IOW, it’s low on the list of idiotic perspectives out there.
However, what do we encounter nearly *every* day? Duopoly politics that merely winds people up, that’s what. It’s so flippin’ idiotic that I can’t believe how prevent it is. Look! It’s a plane! No, look here it’s a UFO! No, look over here it’s a weather balloon! Distractions. That’s what we live with daily. People trying to make money off of our personal insecurities, that’s all.
But all you need to do is look at your own life to see what’s real and ignore all the crap out there. This discussion include lol
justintime, are you a person of color? If not, it's not really possible to speak on another person's experience. Just respect it.
I love Starbucks coffee - hate Starbucks politics. That poor store manager is the scapegoat for a spineless executive team. Those two guys were arrested because they refused an order by the police to vacate the premise - plain an simple. Since when does a private business need to justify their decision when they ask someone to leave their property. Maybe I'll go pitch a tent in the middle of Walmart, and refuse to leave when asked. The fringes in our society have taken over and all sensibility has been lost.
That’s the new thing JIT - you have no voice in these matters if you are not a person of color - regardless of how illogical the opposing viewpoint is. Victim status is treasured in America. Check your privledge there buddy lol
kepa, please reread my comments, understanding that the context is within this Starbucks thread. I’m essentially saying that this is yet another topic that got blown waaaayyyy out of proportion because the simple-minded (ratings-generating-greed-minded is more truthful) folks delivering the news never fail to twist a story into something more than what it is.
Is there a race element here? If one is predisposed to look at race as something that makes a person then I guess so, but that’s not me.
Is there a store policy element here? Don’t see how that can be disputed.
Is there a selective enforcement issue here? That’s the crux of it imo. But, again using our personal lives as a guide post, selective enforcement happens every single day. We all know it. So I ask why are we ok with selective enforcement in some situations but not all?
IMO that’s the real story here, not an inferred racism story that, as should be obvious to any one who’s ever watched the news, is *always* used to distract people from asking real questions.
I hope that’s not an offensive position. It’s certainly not meant to be.
Happiest girl....
rac·ist
noun
1.
a person who shows or feels discrimination or prejudice against people of other races, or who believes that a particular race is superior to another.
Please let us know who has exhibited this action? Or are you simply resorting to typical liberal tactics of name calling in an attempt to shout people down when you have nothing to add. So far reading through all the comments the only persons that exhibited any level bigotry behavior is goeagles and wakup. But I am sure you were not referring to them with your comments people being racists.
Talking about what the black guys are wearing... look at the douchey bicycle helmet on the cop. No wonder he didn't get any respect and was quick to flex his muscles and make a ridiculous arrest. He must have a lot of insecurity about how big a tool he looks like day in and day out.
Justintime, I see what you're saying, but to me this statement
"If one is predisposed to look at race as something that makes a person then I guess so, but that’s not me."
If you're a person of color, it's hard to make a statement like this - as racial discrimination is not only part of your history, but something you may face on many levels every single day. Just knowing that a nearby town, Oxford, is the historical home of the area KKK, would be a constant reminder of active (and potentially violent) racism.
"Always love the duopolists who parrot (fill in celebrity/politician/tv talking head here), those folks who make a living by feeding us their daily dose of hate/angst/fear mongering/the-world-is-ending/add your trigger here bs...However, what do we encounter nearly *every* day? Duopoly politics that merely winds people up, that’s what. It’s so flippin’ idiotic that I can’t believe how prevent it is. Look! It’s a plane! No, look here it’s a UFO! No, look over here it’s a weather balloon! Distractions. That’s what we live with daily. People trying to make money off of our personal insecurities, that’s all."
You still can't refute the ideas in the quote but can only put up a straw man argument. Looks like you lost this one.
What are comedians, if not philosophers? I probably quote George Carlin at least once a month, if not more frequently.
Goeagles, did you ask yourself why I used the word duopolists, why I specifically made a comment about a two-party system?
Your comedian friend is thinking in two dimensions. Did he do that on purpose, maybe to specifically rile up you up?
The quote is about racists tending to be Republicans. You're making an argument about the two party system. They're two different discussions.
My comedian friend is right and you don't have an argument to refute it.
Seems to me that the left projects racism onto others continually, exacerbating situations, which in most instances weren't even there in the first place - like this one. Not sure how politics even became relevant here.
When they did the same thing to the police in 2015 it was cool though right?
https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Post-Alleging-that-Center-City-Starbucks-Refused-to-Let-Officer-Used-Restroom-Goes-Viral-327183651.html
I didn’t see them shutting 8000 stores
Flying Monk I don't need to convince anyone. I witnessed what I witnessed. As they say, I can explain it to you but I can't make you understand it.
@flyingmonk, sorry you got rattled snowflake. Calling BS on their story doesn't make me a racist. It's still pretty simple, if you go into a coffee shop buy a cup of coffee. If the police ask you to leave, and you refuse you should expect to get arrested. They brought it all on themselves, and I'm sure they are enjoying the publicity, and no doubt will be rewarded with a nice financial settlement when it's all said and done. They only good thing about that is it's coming from Starbucks coffers. You can continue to be outraged they were asked to leave a food establishment because they didn't buy anything, I'm more outraged that a few days later 2 cops were assassinated eating dinner in a restaurant, and it's barely a blip on the network news. #boycottstarbucks
"The quote is about racists tending to be Republicans" -- funny, which party fought the Civil War to keep slavery? And, which continues to claim to be the champion of minorities - yet, they never change a damn thing?
Justintime,
Your complete lack of IQ baffles everyone. What do you want us to repeat? Nobody said racism drives the world. But how can you forget our own country's history? Slavery is an integral part of american history, slavery was based on RACISM, I repeat loud and clear-RACISM. You just can't erase that part of history and say it's all beautiful and spotless. Slavery was part of this country's history since it's foundation that's why RACISM is an important subject. Back in those days, green cards and citizenship were not issued, I guess you know what I mean. Then came segregation which was still based on RACISM. Segregation would have continued till the 1980's 1970's had it not been for MLK. How can you say racism is not an important subject in America? How? Three topics are taught about american history abroad: american revolution, american civil war and civil rights movement. Two out of 3 are based on the topic of America's racist history, whether we like them or not.
When Starbucks own CEO admits that they investigated the case and found the manager was wrong, why are people defending SB and demeaning the men.
Justintime,
Racism is part of our history. The heroes of this country fought and sacrificed their blood fighting for the rights of all. Americans and america stood for the equality and liberty for all during the civil war. History taught us what is wrong and what is right. Today's America is different and respected as hero and champion for civil equality and human rights and for it's contribution against ending the Nazis and holocaust. Our forefathers sacrificed so much for things that are right, and we forget what they fought for.
Oh Lord, @goeagles / you're not that naive are you? If Liberals ever started to dishout some tough love, than your statement would make sense.
Seriously that myth has been debunked several times over as an over simplification of political realignments that happens over several, several decades. You really think 100s and 100s of politicians changed their platform over night all together with no one speaking out. Be realistic.
In the 1850s and 1860s, on the topic of race and slavery, Democrats were more conservative and Republicans were liberal. Look up Radical Republicans and tell me they were conservative. Jefferson Davis was a Democrat. Parties go where the votes are.
What does any of this have to do with trespassers being ejected from Starbucks and a revamp of their policy and training curriculum? They apparently want to create an environment where any person is welcome to use their resources with or without purchase. Let’s see how that goes
"Look! It’s a plane! No, look here it’s a UFO! No, look over here it’s a weather balloon! Distractions."
You summed it up, JIT. We are a country of mind-controlled marionettes. It can't be explained to them, though. One can't change a mind one isn't in control of.
Rebecka Are you talking about Jefferson Davis - the President of the Confederacy - being a Democrat? Thanks for making my point.
We proved four things for sure. JIT is very white and can not comprehend what it is like not to be.
Republicans are not racists but racists are more likely to be Republicans. At least during the reign of Trump. I said this well before Maher. Plus that Mafia-organization-structure thing he’s forcing on our Republic; Comey got that from me :-)
Duopoly is bad but, monopoly is worse, but how many opolies does one need?
Denis likes to call liberals names like snowflakes. That’s not nice.
The Republican party started to actively court the southern white racist vote in the late '60s.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy
That’s not what occurred if you believe the MSM and police reports - never did anyone say they were waiting for someone to order. They refused to order and demanded access to the restroom and refused to leave when asked. Big difference.
Look I’m with you more than you know - I’m all about personal sovereignty, however, you can’t intrude on a business and request services, refuse proprietor and police requests to vacate and persist. That’s fundamental to property rights and feedom as far as I’m concerned.
SD thanks for the recap lol
"Are you talking about Jefferson Davis - the President of the Confederacy - being a Democrat? Thanks for making my point."
My point was that the parties don't adhere to any particular philosophy over time. What matters is whether they were conservative or liberal at a given time. Democrats are liberal today. They were conservative in the 1850s. You really don't understand American history at all.
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