Online Petition - No Quick Check on Mountain Ave

Please take a moment to sign the online petition for No Quick Check on Mountain Ave. Feel free to share on your social media sites. Thanks!

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/232/043/079/

Message me if you have trouble accessing

WashingtonStresident WashingtonStresident
Jun '17

Done and shared

Cherie Cherie
Jun '17

I'm just curious as to why not. There's already one there!

1988LJ 1988LJ
Jun '17

1988LJ - The name is kind of confusing. It's not so much the Mt Ave part but the moving of it where the back end would extend all the way to Washington St. It might be better said "No Quick Chek on Washington Street" or "No Quick Chek Move".


Signed & shared.


Honestly I don't think it will effect traffic at all.!! The traffic that is going that way will still go that way. It may even help with the long line going up the hill. Most likely it won't have an exit onto mountain av.

Dadof3
Jun '17

Thank you GC. I was under the impression they were just renovating the current store, and I couldn't understand why someone would oppose that, LOL.

1988LJ 1988LJ
Jun '17

signed .......keep spreading the news

JUST COACH JUST COACH
Jun '17

Here's the prior post on the topic http://www.hackettstownlife.com/forum/773944

There was also a picture of their plan - I thought entrances were on Mountain Ave & Bells Lane.


Isn't there a WaWa gas station going in by the Applebees?
What is the point for both of them?
Petition signed!

Doggoneit
Jun '17

Re: Online Petition - No Quick Check on Mountain Ave

Yes WaWa is on the way.

I thought there were entrances on Mountain Ave, Bells Lane and Washington Street. I don't recall. This rendering does not show that. It is cute how the sign in the foreground is shown very low. We all know that thing will tower high so all can enjoy the unsightly glare all night long. The Buck Hill Star will have nothing on this mess....


Based upon the rendering it will be tough to stop. The gas bays are all in the front on Mountain Ave., a very commercial road.


Re: Online Petition - No Quick Check on Mountain Ave

Here is another rendering.


"The gas bays are all in the front on Mountain Ave., '

Yeah, the residential neighborhoods get the dumpsters filled of deli trash rat delights. Where's the grease?

Folks, again, I think if you find out who's coming to testify in the next meeting and have your questions (since you can find out pretty much what they will say) ready for that particular person based solely on his subject area, that's some of the best defense you have right now (along with signing petitions). As Darrin noted, you can find who's coming for dinner in the agenda when it's posted.

Chances are these "experts" are frequent flyers and you can find out what they will say by finding previous submissions they made to other boards. Might even be able to find text.

If someone posts the attendees, we can do the research here at HL. Go Darrin.

There are two sides: one is the owner/developer pretty much can do whatever they want IF it fits the current zoning plan. You can cry till the cows come home, but won't win. You can try to disprove that they are fulfilling zoning plans ---- that's where discrediting the "experts" who will say they comply --- comes in.

The other is they will have to ask for waivers, they always have to. NO WAIVERS, NO VARIENCES and the day is yours.

strangerdanger strangerdanger
Jun '17

Re: Online Petition - No Quick Check on Mountain Ave

Did I fill out the right survey? Felt right to me :>{}

strangerdanger strangerdanger
Jun '17

Greg thanks for posting - this thing is even worse than imagined.

Good point strangerdanger. Two of the homes on Washington are zoned residential so I believe that is one of the key waivers.

I know that when they went in front of the historical society their experts argued that the homes were not maintained with original/historical items & therefore have no historical significance. Interestingly enough that's not a Historical Society requirement.


Signed

positive positive
Jun '17

signed!

jaydagreatone jaydagreatone
Jun '17

Here is an interesting link in regards to Quick Check in Bridgewater.

https://www.tapinto.net/towns/bridgewater-raritan/articles/zoning-board-questions-whether-quick-chek-is-inhe

Interesting comments about property values.

Here is another story I found, plus some links in regards to the Bridgewater site.

http://www.mycentraljersey.com/story/money/business/2016/05/10/quickchek-proposed-somerset-farms-site-route-22/32606567/

Signed and shared.

animal lover animal lover
Jun '17

Signed....so tired of commercial being pushed on residential areas.

Darrin Darrin
Jun '17

Looks like a great plan! Anyone have a link to the Pro Quick Chek petition?

Not My Bama!
Jun '17

Word to the wise - They never, ever end up as pretty as the artists rendering.

Lets see the rendering from Mr. Hartman's old house (Tank Town for you old timers) on Washington St.

I bet that isn't so pretty...

Longtime Townie
Jun '17

Not My Bama! I am with you on this!!! I think it's a good thing and location, they will probably rip down the old building and build a bank on that corner!

Dadof3
Jun '17

Signed ---

~trekster3 ~trekster3
Jun '17

Strangerdanger, that's the thing... it's NOT a conforming use per existing zoning and they're seeking a use variance. This should be relatively easy to shoot down by the Board, unless there are outside influences. Even if they somehow approve the variance, NJDOT is going to be a MAJOR stumbling block for the applicant.

ianimal ianimal
Jun '17

That's what I said, only shorter :>)

You wanted me to stretch to include all that? :>)

While we make it sound easy, remember folks, squeaky wheel, path of least resistance, least amount of friction, etc. all take place. Right now the squeaky whell is the owner/developer saying variance/development/improvement/ratable-ratable-ratable.

You no say anything, they give variances because that's the path of least resistance. As easy as this one might be, you still need to squeak that wheel so that YOUR desires become the path of least resistance.

That's politics, local and plain.

strangerdanger strangerdanger
Jun '17

Good reminder that those against it will need to fight -- it's already an uphill battle because the owner has a lot of money & political connections.

Converting a residential street for more commercial is a bad idea especially another gas station when there are 2 in a 1.5 block radius & another 2 (inc. WaWa) a few more blocks down the street.


Traffic is bad enough thru town. It will only get worse. Not saying MORE traffic, just MORE back-ups.

Botheredbyuu2 Botheredbyuu2
Jun '17

Make sure you sign the petition, especially Hackettstown residents - as this petition does keep track of where people are from. I plan on printing the petition out and bringing to the next meeting.

~trekster3 ~trekster3
Jun '17

Do one thing more than just sign the petition, get someone else to sign and have them get one more and continue that process.


123 signers, 103 in Hackettstown.

strangerdanger strangerdanger
Jun '17

Just bumping this up --- I encourage anyone that feels strongly to not only sign the petitions, but also write an actual letter addressed to the Zoning Board, Planning Board, Town Council and Mayor. The more letters that people actually take the time to send will bring value to the argument against the proposal, get involved, take the time, your neighbors are counting on you.

Town of Hackettstown
215 Stiger St.
Hackettstown, NJ 07840

trekster3- trekster3-
Jun '17

For those who don't know who to contact:

MAYOR:
Maria DiGiovanni………………852-3130…………………………. 2017
COMMON COUNCIL:
Gerald DiMaio, Jr.*……………852-2116……………………………2019
Matthew Engelau**…………...852-3130……………………………2019
Leonard Kunz…………………852-3130…………………………...2017
James Lambo …………………908-.801-2397……………………2018
Scott Sheldon….……….………973-534-6602….....………………2018
Eric Tynan………………………852-3130………………………….2017
* Acting Mayor whenever necessary
**Alternate Acting Mayor whenever necessary

PLANNING BOARD:
Gerald DiMaio, Chairperson (Class IV) ………………… 2017
Al Camporini, Vice Chairperson(Class IV)………………2017
Patrick Swaszek (Class IV)……………………..…………2019
Robert Stead (Class IV) …………………………………. 2020
Corey Tierney (Class IV) ……………………………... 2020
Shawn Burke (Class IV) ………………………………….. 2019
James Lambo (Class III)……………………………….… 2017
Joseph Clarke (Class II) ……..……………………........... 2017
Joesph Bristow (Class I Mayors Alternate) ……………...2017
William Mennen, Esq…. ………………………………….. Attorney
Patricia Zotti ……………………………………………… Clerk
.

ZONING BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT:
Michele Morpeth, Chairperson…..……………………… 2020
Michael Wozniak, Vice Chairperson……………………2020
Steve Pennington, Secretary……………………………2019
Paul Bardyszewski……………………………………… 2019
Roger Burd………………………………………………. 2020
David Fair………………………………………………… 2017
Joseph Clarke, III………………………………………… 2018
Donna Walling, First Alternate ……….……………….. 2018
Roger Thomas…………………………………………… Attorney
Patricia Zotti ……………………………………………….. Clerk

Longtime Townie
Jun '17

SD if I’m the town, I wouldn’t care if non-residents sign it. It doesn’t affect those people. I signed it because it’s a stupid spot to put a gas station and it’s 500 feet from where I live. I have a hard enough time making a left onto Mountain Ave.

Metsman Metsman
Jun '17

OK by me. Just noting the numbers....134/113

By my math, that's a 57.5% improvement in 24-hours :>)

Keep up the great work, did you tell anyone to sign today?

strangerdanger strangerdanger
Jun '17

Is it just recognizing the zip code to count the numbers from Hackettstown? I don't live in Hackettstown but I have a Hackettstown zip. I signed the petition because I think the consequences of this plan will be felt by more than just the people that live in the immediate vicinity of the proposed location. It will impact everyone who uses Mountain Avenue, Rt. 46, East Avenue, Washington, etc. on a regular basis. This is a horrible idea and I hope it gets shut down.

Tracy Tracy
Jun '17

Bumping this up so that anyone who may not have seen it can take part

~trekster3 ~trekster3
Jul '17

signed

ChuckR ChuckR
Jul '17

147/124

Have yiu signed on?

Strangerdanger Strangerdanger
Jul '17

Reminder: The regularly scheduled meeting of the Hackettstown Zoning Board of Adjustment will be held on Tuesday, July 18, 2017 at 7:30PM at the Municipal Building, 215 Stiger
Street, Hackettstown, New Jersey.

~trekster3 ~trekster3
Jul '17

167:140. One more day to sign up before meeting.

Strangerdanger Strangerdanger
Jul '17

Thank you for the reminder. Hopefully we'll get a good turn out tomorrow.


Tonight's the night to come out and express your opinions. Let's see who comes out.

THEMORP THEMORP
Jul '17

Wawa is coming? Bye bye QuickChek!

HappyTeacher HappyTeacher
Jul '17

QC lawyer making the case that they're not historical homes and therefore can be demolished.


The Lawyer is correct they are not historical homes.

infogirl infogirl
Jul '17

True. Trying to use historical value isn't a winning tactic. Neither is the type of business or perceived need. Traffic issues and a nuisance to the rest of the neighborhood might be.


Actually I believe they are and in the Hackettstown historic district.

The expert argued that they no longer had historical integrity - this has merit but so is the argument that the homes are purposely in disrepair so that they can be demolished. Tonight was just about historical - other considerations/arguments next time.


Developer didn't gove a damn about the historical value of the Bergen Tool brick building and the little blacksmith shop on the property..came down..What a shame because that factory and the Tannery employed the people of the town when jobs were scarce. Now you see the mess he left in the back of CVS...

Pampurr Pampurr
Jul '17

Probably need to consolidate the two QC threads.....

I think pampurr the issue that destroyed the building was the developer convincing the town that the roof was bad. Solid brick building, bad roof, must go. Give me a break. It was a solid brick building built to house heavy machinery. Imagine Bergen being CVS, parking on the left side, and take care of the apartment access via Stiger. Same end result. Just would incorporate history and put all the traffic to Stiger instead of the current Stiger, CVS entrance and soon, a new apartment access road as well. Yeah --- three access points instead of one: that's progress.

Tanneries, on the other hand, given all the toxicity, might be a tougher rehabilitation and restoration.

So we will argue historic or not -- pretty weak given the look. Argue can they be restored or too far gone --- hey, you know they can be restored. Look at the Centenary President's house....Bottom line is you need nothing to be against rezoning the area from residential to commercial. You can just be against it and historic is as good a reason as any. And if there are other concerns --- historic, traffic, attractive nuisance, closeness of middle and high schools --- whatever you concern is would be important to bring to the zoning board.

Face it --- once corner, three gas stations --- that's just stupid for a town this size. Next we'll be taking down the civil war memorial for a US GAS.

strangerdanger strangerdanger
Jul '17

The integrity of these houses have diminished by the design of the person(s) who now own most of them. The Paftinos. They bought them and then let them go into the state they are now in so this could possibly all work out in a big pay day for them.
They are still historical in my opinion and I think the owners should held accountable. They should be made to repair/restore or give them up to the town. Just my opinon.

Walking Girl Walking Girl
Jul '17

If this goes through, what happens with the existing Quick Check building?

D-ManPV D-ManPV
Jul '17

+100 Walking Girl - anyone with a problem with the shape of those houses, that's 110% on the owners (landlords). Not the people that live there and not the town.

Scottso Scottso
Jul '17

walking girl, the current owner has only owned the homes for less than a year. I don't think the current condition of the homes is their doing. if anything the you can blame the previous owner for years of neglect.

But that being said, current condition is not a determining factor as to whether the homes have historical significance or not. the question is if changes made over time ( by previous owners) with different materials have diminished their historical significance. Needing a paint job or even a new roof does not come into play.

Jim L. Jim L.
Jul '17

Thanks for reminding me about how the current owner is just trying to make a fast buck and has 0 responsibility or concern to anyone or anything in this matter other than lining his pockets.

Jim L, remind me again how much money the Paftinos will be getting from Quick Check?

Scottso Scottso
Jul '17

Jim L. The current owner bought two houses in 2013. One on Mountain Ave and the other on Washington St. The other 3 houses was a combined purchase.

animal lover animal lover
Jul '17

trekster - your letter is still a letter as well as at the same time being testimony, send it and also go to the meetings and hand it out and stand up and read it out loud into the record.

the zoning board members have last names and live in h-town do they not?

send your letter to each of them at their homes by registered mail. make sure to list them all by first and last name on the cc list so they all know they all got it, send your letter to each individual member of the town council and the mayor by registered mail, so they all know they all got it, they have to accept it as a communication, cc the express times and WRNJ and 101.5 fm and the Star ledger and the Morris County Record. so they all know that they all got it.

unfrikkin' believable the hubris these pols display.

they are playing games with you to suppress your voice, that shows me that they are already leaning towards granting approvals for the variances.

don't let that happen,

and yeah, they should have planned for a bigger room seeing all the people that wanted to attend. the fact they they didn't, and that they didn't feel like they should accommodate the larger crowd sends a very clear message they they really don't want to hear from any of you, that they can disregard any input the general public may have to offer, they are playing games with the affected residents, that's another indication that their minds are already made up.

wow!

let me know how i can help you with this

BrotherDog BrotherDog
Jul '17

Jim L, remind me again how much money the Paftinos will be getting from Quick Check?

And how would I know that?

Jim L Jim L
Jul '17

Stupid question but if the paftinos bought the houses with the intention of tearing them down, why would they invest in upkeep or repairs?

Bergen tool on the other hand was bought under the agreement that the front building was to stay......and then let go to disrepair

Darrin Darrin
Jul '17

From the beginning when paftinos bought the houses he stated he would have them ripped down to the ground. He did not hide this from anyone. He always said 2 years, but now 4yrs later and probably longer.

animal lover animal lover
Jul '17

Zoning has to make the decisions ultimately. He is one of the biggest taxpayers in Hackettstown. What are you planning on doing?

Pampurr Pampurr
Jul '17

Jim L after some research I need to point out that you are incorrect. All the homes in question have been owned between 4-9 years by either Dr. Sandhu or the Paftinos. You can easily figure this out by searching the Warren County Clerk's records online. The Paftinos operate under various company names selling to each other. Varos LLC and I & R Properties to name 2. Dr. Sandhu's company is S & S Real Estate. They both stand to gain a lot of money in this deal as do their attorneys. It's really shameful that 2 members of our town are involved in this.

Walking Girl Walking Girl
Jul '17

The last of the properties were sold in 2016 I apologize for not knowing the original purchase were earlier. I had heard hey we're all bought at once

Jim L Jim L
Jul '17

Wait just a minute is Pastina or Eminem the biggest taxpayer in Hackettstown?

Scottso Scottso
Jul '17

I&r properties is not Paftinos. That was the previous owner of the last house on Washington street (they also own the brick apartments on Washington street further up). They sold to Paftinos. Sandhu sold the three to Paftinos in 2016. So the only one that will profit is Paftinos.

Animal lover Animal lover
Jul '17

https://www.google.com/search?ei=p2BwWcqQIoPB-gHHz5-IBw&q=the+right+to+free+enterprise&oq=the+right+to+free+enter&gs_l=mobile-gws-serp.1.0.0i22i30k1.25091.59026.0.64353.35.30.0.13.13.0.1153.7356.2j17j7j1j1j0j1j1.30.0....0...1.1.64.mobile-gws-serp..11.24.3870.3..0j41j0i67k1j0i46i67k1j46i67k1j0i131k1j0i131i67k1j33i22i29i30k1.ayV8KfKGnio

Dadof3
Jul '17

HACKETTSTOWN ZONING BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT

215 Stiger Street
Hackettstown, New Jersey 07840

TO: ALL MEMBERS OF THE HACKETTSTOWN ZONING BOARD OF
ADJUSTMENT
RE: December 19, 2017 MEETING
The regularly scheduled meeting of the Hackettstown Zoning Board of Adjustment will
be held on Tuesday, December 19, 2017 at 7:00PM at the Township Municipal
Building, 215 Stiger Street, Hackettstown, NJ 07840.
AGENDA
1. Call to Order
2. Sunshine Act
3. Roll Call
4. Pledge of Allegiance
5. Approval of minutes – September 19, 2017
6. Resolutions – #17-08, Peter J Rowland – Variance Application

Block 16, Lot 10

7. New Business
Case #16-05, Quick Chek Corp –Site Plan Application - Continuation

Block 122, Lots 8-12 & 10.01

8. Adjournment

FORMAL ACTION MAY OR MAY NOT BE TAKEN

Darrin Darrin
Dec '17

Get that thing built already. Time to upgrade that part of town

Butt dial Butt dial
Dec '17

It's not going to be built

Scottso Scottso
Dec '17

I sure hope not.


I bet it gets approved

Bug3
Dec '17

Something will definitally get built, but my money is on a no for a gas station in middle of residential......if the town approves it, they will have some VERY pissed off residents

Darrin Darrin
Dec '17

It's not really in the middle of residential..It's across the street from an existing quick chek

Bug3
Dec '17

Actually since it's also a large portion of Washington St it's smack in a residential zone which is why they want a variance to go to commercial. No variance should be given. Besides the residential issue, it's the stupidest place for yet another gas station; it would tie up traffic up and down Mt. Ave even worse than it is now.


Yes, across the street from an existing Quik Chek...where houses happen to be. I can guarantee that if they decided to knock down a bunch of houses right near you put this in your backyard, you would be complaining. Prove me wrong, though. Why don’t you offer your own lot.

WomanUpSon WomanUpSon
Dec '17

What happened at the Dec. 19 meeting? Was variance granted? Did they throw the petition from the corporation out? Status.....

SS2cats SS2cats
Jan '18

Interesting read

New Jersey is losing its history, one house at a time. About 20,000 homes built in 1939 or earlier -- or pre-World War II -- were demolished in the past 15 years, according to the latest U.S. Census data. Those homes now make up about 18 percent o...
http://www.nj.com/data/2018/03/new_jersey_is_losing_historic_homes_census_shows_h.html

Bug3
Mar '18

Will the evil empire that owns half of Hackettstown get its way? Stay tuned...

DevilsFan DevilsFan
Mar '18

Per another thread on H.H., it states that the landlord that owns those buildings where the Quick Check is to be built, got in trouble with the law and either got fined or is in jail.....am I correct? what transpired with that legal issue?

Hackresident Hackresident
Mar '18

No you are not correct. That was a previous owner of the properties not the current one

Jim L Jim L
Mar '18

Yes the evil empire will get what they want!

I am confident this fine town will allow Quick Check to build their gas station. Our town counsel members don't live there so why not allow Quick Check to build at that location?! I am sure if one or a couple of the town officials lived across the street from said location and they had to look at it, smell the qas, smell the dumpsters in heat of the summer, deal with the lights at all hours, and the noise they would vote no.

But it doesn't affect them so who gives a crap about the town residents!

JustAKid JustAKid
Mar '18

Still don't see response about variance. Was it granted?


No. The presentation is still not complete. It may conclude at the next meeting followed by a possible vote.


JustAKid sorry to ruin your rant but you should get your facts right. 1) the town council has no say in this. It’s before the zoning board not the town council. 2) there is a councilman that lives right there on Washington.

Jim L Jim L
Mar '18

TOWN OF HACKETTSTOWN
ZONING BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT

AGENDA

REGULARLY SCHEDULED MEETING

April 17, 2018

The regularly scheduled meeting of the Town of Hackettstown Board of Adjustment will be held on
Tuesday, April 17, 2018 at 7:00 p.m. at the Township Municipal Building, 215 Stiger Street,
Hackettstown, NJ 07840. NOTE CHANGE OF TIME
Adequate notice of this regular public meeting has been provided in accordance with the Open Public
Meetings Act by posting notice on bulletin board in the Municipal Building; publishing in the Daily Record
and New Jersey Herald official newspapers of the Town of Hackettstown on or about March 8, 2018, by
posting notice on the website of the Town of Hackettstown; filing said notice with the Town Clerk of
Hackettstown; as well as furnishing said notice to those persons requesting it pursuant to the Open Public
Meetings Act. As advertised, action may be taken at this meeting.

1. CALL TO ORDER
2. FLAG SALUTE
3. ROLL CALL
4. APPROVAL OF MINUTES – February 20, 2018 Regularly Scheduled Meeting
5. RESOLUTIONS
a. Carangui/Calle – Case #ZB 18-01 - Interpretation/Section 68
Block 51, Lot 8 411-413 Sharp Street
b. Barr – Case #ZB 18-02 Interpretation/Section 68
Block 62, Lot 3 315-317 Lafayette Street
6. OLD BUSINESS
a. Quick Chek Corp – Case #16-05 - Site Plan Application - Continuation
Block 122, Lots 8-12 & 10.01
7. NEW BUSINESS
8. CORRESPONDENCE
a. Einhorn Harris Attorneys At Law re: Mars Chocolate North America LLC
b. New Jersey Planning Officials Newsletter
9. ADJOURNMENT

Darrin Darrin
Apr '18

I'm travelling but I hope that there's better attendance tomorrow.


Reminder - Meeting is at 7:00 pm

trekster3~ trekster3~
Apr '18

As much as I would have liked public testimony to have an effect, it was lawyers and the threat of a lawsuit that won the day.

My big disappointment is in the property owner in not researching along with the BID a better fit as a bridge between highly commercial Mountain Avenue and the residential district. Some of the listed industries presented as testimony by Quick Cheks planning expert would be preferable to a 24/7 gas station.

There will be a bit more time with DOT approvals and such, so construction will be delayed a little bit.

Once it's open along with the Wawa, we will wait and see how many gas stations will join the already abandoned ones.

~trekster3 ~trekster3
Apr '18

That intersection is already a nightmare, especially going up to Rt 46 on Mountain Ave. It already takes 10 minutes just to cross this LITTLE town, now it'll take even longer.

And the lack of a "cut through" of any kind (except for Washington St, which the school is on), due to the Centenary, the pool, and the high school, makes it worse.

Like Hackettstown needed even more congestion than it already has.

JeffersonRepub JeffersonRepub
Apr '18

I am VERY surprised there was not one single "NO" vote...even though it seemed there were some very quiet indecisive "YES" votes, not one board member voted "NO"

But...with that being said, darn did I wish I had a wooded planted burm like that separating my house from CVS.......yes it is going to take 5-6 years to grow in (of course the developer is going to show it at it's best state) but IMO that will certainly help buffer.

I hope the residents are not too upset....this has been the way of new constructions...no care for history or historic districts....and until our town puts something on the books protecting something like this from happening...it could happen again. Loose laws and codes will be fully exploited by developers for just how loose they can go. We need something clear cut with no grey areas.

Darrin Darrin
Apr '18

STOP giving Quick Chek and Wawa your business and they will stop building stores everywhere!!

I never understood the allure to Quick Chek or Wawa, Overpriced, crap food and cigs....

2 cents 2 cents
Apr '18

“STOP giving Quick Chek and Wawa your business and they will stop building stores everywhere!! ”

Exactly.

justintime justintime
Apr '18

Our children that are walking to and from school every day that road,cars whant too get gas when they are coming home,trucks making delivery of all kinds. We have more than 5 or6 gas stations located less than 2 miles range and the current owner should be aware that they should be repaired and livable. TH

Jarico
Jun '19

Whatever happened to this thing?...

Bug3
Jul '19

Zoning law won over grass roots effort.

Town did not to be sued and would have lost.

Unfortunate that this was not changed before the zoning was established.

Timmy
Jul '19

I haven't seen any signs of construction

bug3
Jul '19

It will get built in 2020. Quick Chek only builds a few stores per year and because the DOT took too long QC started on other locations.

Jim L Jim L
Jul '19

Hopefully the town is going to require them to make a left turn lane, as they had to for the Route 46 location in White.

Reggie Voter Reggie Voter
Jul '19

Not the town’s decision. Mountain ave is a state road. State DOT has all the say on that road

Jim L Jim L
Jul '19

Okay fine pass the buck. The fact is that QC was originally not going to and then was forced to make a left turn lane on Route 46. Does the town not communicate with the state?

Reggie Voter Reggie Voter
Jul '19

its not passing the buck, its a state road, which means the DOT has to approve it. Just like they did in White Township since Rte 46 is a state road.

'The White Township Committee approved the plan last year following the recommendation of their Zoning Board of Adjustment. Board Chairman Joe Magnini said the plans were approved by the state Department of Transportation and the county after the gas station asked for the lanes.

"They're the ones that have the final say," he said of the state agency. "We cannot approve something. The DOT has to approve that."

https://www.lehighvalleylive.com/warren-county/express-times/2012/10/white_township_quick_chek_turn.html

And the town didn't ask for the left turn lane or require it. QC asked for it in White. and the State DOT approved it. Silly facts, they always get in the way.

Jim L Jim L
Jul '19

Jim L.

Do you know if any changes the state DOT required for Mountain ave? ....for the quick chek project

Bug3
Jul '19

Exsqueeze me jim—-are you attempting to put off your future voters :-). A bit bristled perhaps? Not to mention not exactly the process although you got the governance model correct. From the governance side its the state responsibility. From the process side, a non-state entity asked for a road development and the state complied. Of course the town has input; we are part of the state and the state process. Even individuals get to play.

Think you’re a bit caught in the governance weeds on this one and forgot the process, oh councilman wanna to be.....

StrangerDanger StrangerDanger
Jul '19

I don't know, I will ask at the July 23rd Land Use meeting. I'm not even sure if the DOT has completed their review of the application yet. They took a full year with the WaWa one and that was a pretty simple site plan.

Jim L Jim L
Jul '19

QC asked for it in White.

Not so. Silly fact.

Reggie Voter Reggie Voter
Jul '19

the town can ask the state to consider it.
just like the town as to apply to the state to change a speed limit that is out of state guidelines.
mendham township did this in the oak knoll development where state guideline was 35mph due to over 300 ft property frontages and residents wanted it to be 25mph. mendham township had to get approval from the state to do it.


Whip it. Whip it good.

StrangerDanger StrangerDanger
Jul '19

Why not read on how the NJ DOT permitting process actually works? Here; I’ll start you off:

https://www.state.nj.us/transportation/business/accessmgt/

YeahRight YeahRight
Jul '19

Pro QC here. At least they are creating jobs vs outsourcing them.

TonyM. TonyM.
Jul '19

Tort and retort, I love it. And a jfgi to boot. Excellent linkage!

StrangerDanger StrangerDanger
Jul '19

the applicants need to get approval from the DOT, the town or planning boards can not force applicants to make left turn lanes on state roads. That has to come from the state. I even provided you with a quote from the white township zoning board chairman where he said they can't force or approve it.

So when reggie says "Hopefully the town is going to require them to make a left turn lane, as they had to for the Route 46 location in White" and " The fact is that QC was originally not going to and then was forced to make a left turn lane on Route 46"

that is not accurate, the town did not require or force them to make the left lane. QC wanted the left lane and had to get approval from the state not the town to do so. yes a town can make recommendations but they can't "force" or "require". And with Reggie's example, it wasn't even the town that wanted the left lane. That was the point i was making SD


Also on that stretch of Mountain Ave i'm not sure where people think they can even add a left turn lane. The town zoning board made recommendations to Bells Lane and QC will add a left turn lane onto Mountain Ave from Bells as that is a town road but as far as a left lane on Mountain Ave there is no room. The DOT can come back and make QC put up a traffic light at Bells Lane/Mountain Ave/ Water St but QC felt confident that wasn't necessary. We'll see what the DOT recommends or requires at that intersection. But i highly doubt they will add a left turn lane, that would require widening that entire stretch of mountain ave.

Jim L Jim L
Jul '19

Sounds like its going to be one giant SNAFU at that intersection once this monstrosity gets built

Bug3
Jul '19

Umm there already is a quick check there that has a certain amount of traffic. That traffic would just revert to the new one and maybe a few more cars getting gas. Not a big deal.

Metsman Metsman
Jul '19

You are wanting to be a councilman. Precision is important is it not? Consider it as, hopefully constructive criticism, a teachable moment if you will. You were 100% correct but seemed to leave out the process side of the equation leaving the reader to believe it's all at the state-level and that's that. I was pretty sure you knew what needed to be known, but you wrote it in a manner covering the governance model while leaving out the usual process model where recommendations can be made by either the local governments or citizens. Generally, the state does not have a clue about our traffic patterns and problems until it becomes a crisis. And then, to confirm, they need to drop a few million on "research." I am sure they would love the town and it's citizens to voice recommendations to potentially speed the decision and avoid too much volume over their resulting conclusions.

Honestly, I neither know the NJ process nor the actual road situation to be any kind of expert here, beyond it's a mess there. Just illuminating the typical and hinting that there may be more to the "story" than you wrote.

However, in every development there is an opportunity to make things better, worse, or the same. The job of the planning and zoning department is to make things better. Look at the Historic District -- they failed miserably. While Hackettstown may be getting better here, it often seems to let developers and the state run rough shod in their thirst for the all mighty ratable. Pink sidewalks are "classic" and "traditional," in what world is that true? But we took the money and we took it. The WAWA example is perfect as a job half-done. The "cure" to WAWA ingress and egress to Mountain was half-baked at best with signage failing miserably. The town's stick-built development mentality deems that almost every establishment to has it's own access meaning just about every flippin store has it's own entrance along a mile-plus "golden mile" of businesses. That's not a state problem, that's a planning problem. We can demand (recommend) better and we can zone better.

Clearly, this development will make things worse IF road infrastructure changes are not made. I have to imagine the state will welcome any inputs to make things better, as would QC, within the bounds of affordability.

strangerdanger strangerdanger
Jul '19

Plus, no one is going to be going out of their way to go to THAT QC rather than one of the other half-dozen in the area. They refer to that as a "pass-by" traffic generator, i.e. the vast majority of the cars that stop there, especially during peak AM and PM times, would have already been there anyway.

ianimal ianimal
Jul '19

I'm sorry guys...have you been to the one on 517 in the morning?...its a madhouse...or the wawa?... I am not against quick chek...but you can't make a left hand onto mountain ave today....its going to be a huge mess when it opens...hopefully it will calm down but I bet it doesn't

Bug3
Jul '19

correct ianimal, This is not considered a "desination" business, where someone wil go out of their way to go there. They will stop on their normal route to/from work so in theory there will be minimal additional number of cars on that road.

However, The issue will be cars trying to turn left onto Bells lane and now having to deal with cars exiting QC onto Mountain Ave. the flow of traffic is not good there already and I can see it getting worse.

Jim L Jim L
Jul '19

Bug3 you can bypass that left hand turn. If you want to go west on 46 you just cut down Washington St. If you want to go east on 46 you just turn right there and then left at the light by IHOP. I can't tell you how many times I wanted to turn left and just turned right instead. That left turn sucks no matter what.

Metsman Metsman
Jul '19

Metsman ...you can also popout by the dunkin donuts...easier left there

Bug3
Jul '19

Putting a traffic light there would just make things worse....traffic already backs up to the bottom of the hill

Bug3
Jul '19

I'm sure someone will just put another traffic light there that only lets 5 cars through. This way we can have traffic that backs up to the light which causes the traffic to begin with.

All because they couldn't bridge the river to allow another access point to Rt. 46.

And the town needs another/revamped Quick Chek. Because there aren't enough places to get coffee and cigarettes.


I just live dunkin donut popouts; they’re the best!

And the survey says; I go to neither quick upchuck due to parking nightmares. Put that in your destination and smoke it!

I like WAWA —- park in back, very nice. Zip out on the light or up by Chase. Ezpeasy.

StrangerDanger StrangerDanger
Jul '19

Jim L., I will take your word that I was wrong about who wanted the left turn lane in White, and hereby apologize.

It's great that the left turn lane there seems to have worked out.

At the Shell just north of Route 80, there is no left turn lane and my daughter was crashed into from behind a few weeks ago, as she slowed because the car in front of her was making a left into Shell. The State Trooper that responded said it isn't unusual for that spot. Since then, I have noticed a lot of fresh skid marks in that same spot. She had $4,000 in car damage ($3,000 covered by insurance), missed a day of work and $6,000 hospital bill (mostly covered by insurance).

That's going to be the situation once QC builds the gas station there on Mountain Ave., if the left turn lane isn't put in. Yes, it may take some widening but the alternative is more accidents and injuries.

It seems to make sense for the town to vocalize this to the state as early in the process as possible.

We've had integrated project teams at work for over 25 years - get all of the stakeholders and experts in a room and make sure that the requirements make sense.

Reggie Voter Reggie Voter
Jul '19

" Because there aren't enough places to get coffee and cigarettes."

And donuts. And alcohol, in any form.

It's the fuel that runs America. Soon we can add cannabis to the list. These are the things in life we need to keep us going.

Allow them to sell packaged goods (alcohol) and people will love it.

dodgebaal dodgebaal
Jul '19

It’s discouraging that Hackettstown is allowing the State of N.J. to continue growth of the “concrete jungle” and hodge pudge infrastructure/zoning that defines the ill-thought-out chaos from Newark west to.... Hackettstown. I moved to N.J. from NYS five years ago and I continue to be saddened that N.J. is so congested, chaotic and with poor long term planning for growth and development. It’s truly devastating.

It doesn’t matter that @Jim L has a rebuttal for every person's opinion, or that he is “in the know” about local and State zoning and planning. While it may make Jim L feel strong and powerful, I don’t see him as a “Rainmaker.” I have observed the banter in this forum regarding the Wawa, QC, the Historic District and BID. I believe that EACH person’s concern is valid, but we seem to be impotent with respect to using our opinions/property taxes/concerns as leverage for improvement of the “concrete jungle” which is creeping (soon leaping) onto our Western NJ bucolic landscape.

I suppose the town, Jim L and the State would like us to remain “sheeples” so that, in the name of the almighty dollar, we can watch as our Nation implodes from within.

Robin Robin
Jul '19

Well said, but no sheeple here. Poor planing on the town's part IMHO. Just like Bergen Field. Just take a look at that mess. I walked my dog to Third Street the fences are all down and garbage is being thrown in there. It's truly disgusting.

pampurr pampurr
Jul '19

for all you cry babies on this forum...get off your ass and get involved with the town. when is the last time you ran for local office or asked to join one of the board or at the very least went to a meeting?

crying on htown life, has zero impact to the future or direction of the town.

not this kid not this kid
Jul '19

I dunno kid; pretty funny for a kid to name call others as babies :-). I live outside the town and really feel my kvetching has struck a cord. Especially since I can’t take most of the suggested actions. Not to mention that you all don’t have a clue how anyone is physically supporting their banter here. Good suggestions, but you really can’t condemn; you just don’t know. Sure, nothing happens quickly but look — they just elected a Dem. Now we have a different voice, albeit one in a a severe minority.

So, what happened with QC? We discovered we have a Historic District. We also discovered our Historic District has no teeth.

Jim L: keep up the good work. We may not agree always, but I respect your knowledge and passion. Do you know what has/is happened/happening for our Historic District zoning since this came to light? Nothing? Or are we putting zoning law to work to put teeth in our Historic District?

StrangerDanger StrangerDanger
Jul '19

I’ll apologize for this SD length post but since I got called out I’ll respond. Sorry Robin I don’t post here to feel “strong and powerful”, I post here to explain what legally a town can and more importantly can’t do when it comes to development of privately owned land.

A town can:
1) Prohibit certain types of businesses from operating in town limit – Hackettstown does that
2) Limit the number of certain types of businesses in town- Hackettstown does that
3) Create different zones in town and list approved types of businesses for each zone- Hackettstown does that

A Town can not:
Tell a private land owner who meets the zoning requirements that he can’t develop on his/her land because we don’t want it. Instead we can have the applicant work with the planning board to design the site to accommodate the business while doing our best to control traffic, lighting, signage, and buffers so it has the least amount of negative impact on the residents, neighbors. The planning board, now LUB, takes experts opinions as well as resident’s opinions into consideration when designing the plan… just ask Darrin.

So to address the last 2 major projects, QC and WaWa:
WaWa was privately owned land, zoned in a Commercial Zone so it met all the requirements to be allowed to build there. Nothing the town could do to prevent them. What we could do was design the lot to the best of our ability to limit traffic and noise and make it as visually pleasant as we could. I think we did a good job with that. For the number of cars entering/exiting the site there is no major increase in traffic. Minus the first few weeks of their grand opening.

As for QC, that was a different issue. The residents fought the wrong fight. They fought the historic significance of the run-down homes on Mountain Ave. Those homes were not historic and Mountain Ave is zoned commercial so even if QC was denied something commercial was going on that side of the road. The real fight was the 2 homes on Washington that was in a residential zone. But when that part of the application was presented, Greg can tell you, hardly anyone from the public showed up to fight it. That was the fight worth fighting, and that is where I think our zoning board failed. They had a legal right to deny QC from taking over 2 residential lots but they voted unanimously to allow it.

SD to answer your question on the Historic District, I added in the 2018 Master Plan that we needed a new historic inventory plan. I gave examples of ones done in Somerville and Plainfield where each home in the historic district was inventoried and photographed. It’s a long, detailed plan and expensive. There is Highlands grants out that that can be applied to this study and we have applied for that grant. But it is not something that can happen overnight. Once we get a true inventory of what is historic in town then we can update our ordinances accordingly. Perhaps we don’t have a “historic district” but instead have a list of “historic” homes/buildings we want to make sure are maintained. We’ll see.

Jim L Jim L
Jul '19

What’s going in with that mess Bergen Field? It’s disgraceful. Fences trashed and now garbage..

I liked the idea of Shawn’s making it an park like area for children this side of town!

Pampurr Pampurr
Jul '19

Phase 2 of Bergen will include a 3 acre park. You will have to speak with the property owner on why he never started Phase 2. Just like Bilby Road project that was approved in 2013 and has not begun construction, its' up to the property owner to build it.

If there is fencing down and trash you can call the zoning officer to report it and he can go out and send a letter to the owner that they are in zoning violation.

Jim L Jim L
Jul '19

Perhaps when you cop a tude, dude, people want to feud....you know, like you and I ;-). Like slapping the guy who just atta-boyed you as “the long poster,” as if I’m the only one. But then again, you are the man of bad timing oh oopse-write-in loser to a Democrat......

I think catalog the homes is a nice thing but totally unnecessary to create proper zoning tools for protection. Perhaps trying a best-in-class approach would be more effective, efficient, and economical if anyone actually wanted to take meaningful action for improvement. I mean how could we be worse off than today when when have almost nothing.

Another q: does main street have color templates? Styles? Any covenants?

StrangerDanger StrangerDanger
Jul '19

ha let's get the facts right, i didn't lose to a Democrat. A Dem lucked out that my paperwork had an error on it and therefore wasn't on the ballot. If i had been on the ballot i would have won easily. My mistake was his good fortune. Won't happen again.

http://www.somervillenj.org/filestorage/4100/4102/4153/4207/6-Historic_Preservation_Element.pdf

This is what Somerville did, in my opinion something like this would benefit Hackettstown. As it stands the "Historic District" of Hackettstown is limited to around the college area. Parts of High street that have amazing buildings are technically not in the historic district. By identify and protecting individual buildings vs a certain neighborhood would help strengthen our town’s historical significance. Somerville also different districts in town to capture all the historical buildings, perhaps that would help here. Main St section, High St section, Presidents section, ect. for example.

Jim L Jim L
Jul '19

Perhaps the state DOT will turn down quickchek application and the entire thing will fade away

Bug3
Jul '19

People crack me up... They'd rather have an empty lot and a few crappy houses than a brand new quick check that replaces the crappy one on Mountain Ave....

Metsman Metsman
Jul '19

With a less screwed up intersection..

Bug3
Jul '19

Nice spin except for the word: mistake. Like I said, bad timing.... And we’ll see; it should be a cakewalk for you to win if you don’t mess up again ;-).

Yes, that’s a nice report and much more than a catalog or inventory plan as you had previously mentioned. Find a few more reports like this, some actual historic district zoning law examples, , visit the communities to see the effects, see what recommendations were followed, and pick the best-of-class ones. Write your own conclusions, hire an appropriate student to catalog, maybe a master’s project, and now you’re best in class!

Should not have to invent or pay an arm and a leg for stuff that exists (except the catalog).

I do see a problem in thinking people will self-register for historic. I wouldn’t ruin my flexibility unless it added value. And, for homeowners, these don’t necessarily add value unless there are defined areas. Without the town creating real teeth for its historic district OR each of my neighbors registering historic; why would I ever lead the charge and attempt to register. I can get the same result without or choose to do something different, my choice, not the state. Now, if zoning says we all have to do it or comply to common historic district guidelines, that’s a different story, Im all in.

StrangerDanger StrangerDanger
Jul '19

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