2017 NJ Gubernatorial Election
We might as well have one of these threads as well. Discuss the candidates for governor here. Let the lunacy begin!!! ;-)
Info on the candidates:
http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2017/02/how_will_njs_next_governor_fix_pensions_we_asked_t.html
Calico696 I don't think any of the "information" matters. I don't think whether the "news" about the candidates reported is "fake", true, or something in-between. I think all that matters is, NJ has had 2 terms of a republican (who is not popular right now, and hasn't been for awhile), therefore NJ will swing the pendulum the other way and elect a democrat.
Period.
JeffersonRepub Even the dems look like pretty slim pickings again. Can we get a smart, qualified, honest governor?
Captain America is running...oh...nevermind, wrong Steve Rogers.
alpha1beta Alpha1beta being smart honest etc. doesn't seem to work anymore in politics... Incompetence and being self serving seem to be what it's all about now... I think a bum off the streets would be a better candidate than any of these clowns!! Can't be any worse than what we have had!!
Mr. Tone First things first...
http://www.bluejersey.com/2016/11/the-case-to-impeach-chris-christie/
yankeefan 
kerii
GC Watching the debates tonight, I'm not thoroughly impressed by any of our 'candidates.' Anyone else?
Kris 
4catmom Jack Ciattarelli has my vote. If he loses the primary, I won't bother voting in November.
4cat you can watch it here.
http://www.njtvonline.org/news/uncategorized/nj-gubernatorial-primary-debates-stockton-university/
I'll vote for any Republican over any democrat but to be honest I don't think the GOP are going to win this one. Chris Christie just stopped caring circa 2014 and so he's not very popular anymore.
1988LJ I agree with you, Calico. I like Jack Ciattarelli as well and he has my vote. I have gotten a lot of mailings from him in recent weeks compared to Guadagno, and he seems less scripted in the debate with better ideas than Guadagno.
1988LJ I agree with you as well that the Democrats will win in November, due to Christie and this being a Democratic state. If Ciattarelli does not win the primary, I will probably vote for Murphy, as Guadagno does not have my vote. It would be another four years of Christie and no one knows she is the Lieutenant Governor and Secretary of State of this state.
I think the state has just dug itself into a deep hole, and there simply isn't anybody who can bail it out. Things like property insurance are just killing the economy, and the only way to fix that would be drastic budget cuts, including a lot of firings and reduction of employee wages, which nobody is going to even suggest. So, no matter who gets elected, things are only going to get worse.
JerseyWolf politicsfan - You won't have to bother voting for Murphy. There is no way Guadagno can beat Murphy, which is sad because he's just another Corzine. Jack would be the republicans only chance.
To be perfectly honest, it may be in the GOP's best interests to just concede to the dems, congratulate them, and not waste any money on the race. Then, regroup and come back in 2021 with a winner.
For anyone who is interested, Jack Ciattarelli will be holding a Warrren County town hall meeting at Bea McNally's Monday 5/22 at 7:00. The event is free, but you do have to register to attend.
https://www.jack4gov.com/warren/
Let's open this up to critical ad review starting with this gem from Phil Murphy. I will summarize.
I started working at 14, got my first entitlement from my father protecting the pay I didn't know was being stolen by my boss. I learned learned from that, and joined Goldman Sachs to steal my fair share. I was lucky at GS. I did not get caught. "I never will forget that feeling of being cheated out of honest pay for honest work." I gotta ask. How do you get that feeling if you were to stupid to realize you were being robbed? Just saying.
Then I asked Obama to make me a politician and he found the world's easiest job as ambassador to Germany ---- man, only England is an easier first step to politics. Now I am giving back. Well, not really giving back. More like redistributing. Now I am for equal pay. At least for you. Now....I am a Democrat.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvm1wVu5qAY
Funny part is this guy will probably get my vote. I'm going with the JR theory ---- anyone but Hillary.
strangerdanger Need a candidate to back a Prop 13 in NJ. We have the highest property taxes in the nation and only something like this will bring fairness back...
iJay We also now have 50% Hispanics in our NJ schools. Lots of Anchor babies and Unwed mothers. Unwed mothers get a LOT of " free"(tax funded)stuff!! Most of the parents rent and "stack" in apartments, or qualify for section 8. (Rent free- we pay- because the parents don't have income/ don't have income on the books.)
And we have Newark and Patterson and their lovely Projects...and their unwed mothers/welfare for lifers...
And Southerners who move TO NJ because NJ pays more benefit $ to "disabled".
SO much Fraud happening in NJ!
....If only the Laws in place were actually enforced....
NJ is nearly bankrupt.
Our PropertyTaxes pay for the "Free Riders".
Will ANY candidate EVER have the guts to cut the Free Loaders off?!!
(Don't worry-the leeches would just move on to NY or PA and start sucking their taxpayers dry...)
Lili Wow Lili. I believe you actually believe your factual lies. It's 23% Hispanic, you're not even close. And you only have your opinion for the rest of your false allegations.
NJ is such a hell hole, no one worthy of being elected governor is running. It has become a very familiar situation in all of politics. "Good" candidates don;t exist anymore. Or if they do, there's no part money behind them, and not enough of the population smart enough to vote for them. It is a sad state of affairs. Nothing to do but watch the car go over the cliff. Maybe after a catastrophic collapse, enough people will wake up, and take their country/state/community back.
But I doubt it.
Sheep.
Jack sounds alright, "on paper", but haven't we learned by now that IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY??? He either will be stopped by the democrat congress, or he'll compromise too much, or..or...or......
America is like someone who needs to go on a diet, or they are going to have a heart attack. Oh, we get concerned, and diet for a little while, but pretty soon we find ourselves back in the McDonald's drive through... ESPECIALLY if we've lost a little weight, because "well, we've improved some, a little fun won't hurt".... then after several more years of continuing the rollercoaster and still gaining more weight, they HAVE the heart attack. The heart attack MIGHT wake them up- depends on how "easy" the fix is... "oh, stents and meds? Great! I'll take a large meat lover's pizza please...."
Very few heed the warnings and do what is necessary to PREVENT the catastrophe. They have their fun, act all surprised when the collapse happens, change their ways for a little while, but end up right back where they were.
At this point, I really believe that the only thing that will "save" us, in the end, is the collapse. I have joined OldGent, just gonna' sit back, enjoy my own little corner of the universe, and wait for it to happen. God help our children.
Lili, this is the world we live in today. Those who plan have limited children (1-2 for the average well off couple) but those who don't have much more and most often can't afford them and look to the government for assistance.
Single mother unemployed with 5 children from different boyfriends. This aforementioned example is the classic parasitic model. Not sure what we can do unless we control births through forced implants. A requirement to have kids, the public would not agree. But most agree that responsibility is lacking for many.
One could argue that we are a welfare society, free stuff for many is the norm.
iJay: think it's more appropriate to say this is LIli's and iJays world their fear and loathing has defined their own reality.
You all say all this crap without even an anecdote much less any real facts. Heck Lili's only number is 100% OFF :>)
The ole "Single mother unemployed with 5 children from different boyfriends" story. One where women no doubt are having babies to live off the government, often with an unreported boyfriend to boot. Did you know NJ has the family cap since 1992 and mothers on welfare who have more kids get restricted or zero additional benefits? So you got your way and now you just have more abortions. (OK, I threw that one in; while one study said it's true, it was challenged for veracity --- not statistically valid at this point).
NJ was the first state to offer the family cap. Twenty-three states use it today.
Meanwhile, there is absolutely no statistical evidence that welfare rates affect birth rates. Welfare families are statistically the same size as working families.
If you just tease out welfare payments, you can pay 30 years of benefits at the current rate for the same amount you spend for two years of defense. It's about 1.5% of our budget. If you were looking to be more fiscally efficient, you will find much bigger fish in many other accounts before scrimping on welfare becomes a fiscal priority.
I think both of you should read up on the facts and reorient yourself to focusing the higher priorities facing our country while letting these myths about poverty finally fade away.
No statistics? I just have to look at section 8 rentals to validate a portion of my points. SD, which reality are you in?
Tell you what, I will help.....
- 88% of those receiving rental assistance are disabled, elderly or have children.
= 42% are elderly
= 20% are disabled
= 30% have children --- 5% are disabled with children
The actual volumes of cases are pretty flat, might be because of budget not because of need. The actual volume of cases with kids has been falling since 2012 with an 8% drop since that date.
So you were saying? (this is where you go abba dabba but but.....)
http://www.cbpp.org/research/housing/national-and-state-housing-fact-sheets-data#map
http://www.cbpp.org/sites/default/files/atoms/files/4-13-11hous-NJ.pdf
Hubby and I attended Jack Ciattarelli's town hall meeting at Bea's last night. He offered an excellent presentation of his five point plan. It's a shame more people didn't turn out. There was only about 35-40 people there.
Additionally, Bea's was dead. You could hear crickets at the bar prior to and after the meeting. I wonder if they will be the next place to close up......
JerseyWolf, why is property insurance killing us? I think that's pretty far down on the list of what's wrong with the state.
MeisterNJ 
ianimal Pretty far down the list? You must be a public pension insider. Only to those who have such a god gig are the property taxes a "bargain."
What gets to me is Jack Ciattarelli's ads. He says that Kim Guidano had 7 years to fix N.J.
and didn't do it. Yet he has been in the legislature for 7 years and I don't see that he fixed anything. Now they all have plans but no way to make any of it happen. Both are better choices than Murphy. His idea to fix property taxes in our state is make everyone work more. He says we just need to make more money. “an increase in incomes will reduce their impact on families.” I guess we all need to work for Goldman Sachs.
Indy2 Kim's ads get to me too. Trying to say that Jack voted for the gas tax. Not true. This article from October shows who voted yes and who voted no.
http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2016/10/heres_how_your_lawmaker_voted_on_njs_23-cent_gas_t.html
You'll notice that Steve Oroho voted yes. Time to vote him out.
Murphy as governor would be a disaster.
Strangerdanger, look at the NJ schools statistics for accurate data. Or just pop into a Hackettstown classroom and do a headcount.
Greatschools.com shows pie charts on students' races.
WELL over 50% Hispanic in NJ. (Lots of Anchorbabies, and their parents are not accurately counted/documented on your sources).
Democrats keep giving all our tax $ away.
Christi was a little better.
I'm voting Republican.
Lili, where is this pie chart you mention? The only pie chart I could find was here -
http://www.greatschools.org/catalog/reports/searching_for_opportunity.pdf
and that pie chart is for California (54%). I could find nothing for NJ. Please provide links to your sources.
Rich Lili, I'm as anti-illegal and republican as they come, but I'd have trouble believing that 50% of NJ students are hispanic. It's probably closer to 30%. I know whites still make up the majority of NJ students.
Don't let the facts get in your way of seeing Mexicans everywhere you look Lili.
I am sure in lieu of the actual facts we would accept your anectdotal Mexican headcount combined with your special detex-mex radar that detects anchor babies.
Although I question our school security that lets you pop in.
"50% of NJ students are hispanic. It's probably closer to 30%. I know whites still make up the majority "
Hang on a moment, aren't Hispanics Caucasians and therefore considered 'white' (whatever that means)
Anyways go out and vote for Hayden in the primary, defeat Oroho who was the one who championed the 23/cent gas tax increase.
Oroho must be thrown out on his ass, he is bad for NJ and bad for hard pressed taxpayers.
Also go out and vote for Kim Guadango for governor, she has some good ideas on how to restructure the property tax reliance for school funding. She deserves a shot at fixing this.
Here are a few facts from the DOE data base.
In 2006-07 Hackettstown had 1890 students. In 2016-17 Hackettstown had 1923 students. I was surprised that the increase was only 33 students considering the push they have going to send students to Independence. I don't remember them saying the schools were overcrowded 10 years ago. The breakdown of the major races are:
06-07 White 1583 African American 31 Hispanic 196
16-17 White 1319 African American 61 Hispanic 426
"Oroho must be thrown out on his ass, he is bad for NJ and bad for hard pressed taxpayers."
Agree 100%
"Also go out and vote for Kim Guadango for governor, she has some good ideas on how to restructure the property tax reliance for school funding. She deserves a shot at fixing this."
Have you seen Jack Ciattarelli's plan for fixing the school funding system? If you haven't, maybe take a look. His plan is better IMO. It's your vote, but make sure you hear both sides.
Democratic candidates are all about preserving public workers pensions and benefits. With this tall and unfair order there just not much left for the common man. Do anything, but don't vote Democratic...
On Tuesday, vote against Sussextucky Republican leadership that sells you out. Share a full story with your friends, for this is not a transparency story - it’s about carpetbaggers buying our politicians. Notice how Oroho brings in boatloads of outsider, carpetbagger money, and not one quote from the damaged Republican challengers: Hayden, Orr or Atwood. It’s time to vote for change.
Our leadership was bought. Last October, Oroho's team chaperoned 200 Union members to Newton Square to bust up a taxpayers rally. Politico/Matt Friedman now tells us that an 825 Union leader was rewarded - he sits on the State Board deciding how much of your gas taxes to spend and where.
Politico connected the dots. Lalevee runs Union Local 825. His brother runs union political money that bought Oroho. Then Lalevee is put on the TTF committee deciding on where/how $12,000,000,000 of Oroho’s new mass transit debt, and your gas taxes, will be spent. IT WON’T BE IN SUSSEX COUNTY, OROHO IS EVEN STRANGLING THE DECADE’S OLD ANDOVER TRAIN STATION INITIATIVE. Our county seat, Newton, has no mass transit, but Oroho raised gas taxes that go mainly for mass transit - not roads (yes, you were deceived).
On Tuesday, get your friends and family to vote. Vote your interests: Hayden, Orr and Atwood.
Has anyone considered Hirsh Singh, an Engineer who graduated from NJIT as a Republican Candidate for Governor? I didn't know about him until I got one mailing amidst the many from the Kim and Jack crew. He's in favor of legalizing and regulating marijuana (tax and dispensing, it looks like) similar to alcohol. While I don't use it, I think that's a better way to go this wasteful war of incarcerating people that only use MJ for personal reasons, whether that be relaxation, pain reduction, etc. Just as long as they aren't driving whilst impaired.
Frankly, I'm getting tired of the two "main" Republican candidates' back and forth BS. He may not be the perfect candidate, but then who is. I may not agree with everything he states, but I agree with more of his approach and what he has to say than most of the others running. While I know he currently lacks the big party connections, I think it may be a good thing to bust out of the career politician and financial/business representatives that have been elected in the past (especially people such as Corzine - Dem. who are all platitudes and have no idea of what the average person deals with, imho) and go with a Project Engineer, someone who knows how to work with others to get things done and have projects come in on time and within budget constraints:
http://singhfornewjersey.com/
Give his website a read and check out his Town Hall videos and see what you think.
Phil D. Isn't there someone running who is saying drain the swamp? I'll take a chance and vote for him haha.
Edit... Well looks like he's got no chance so quadagno it is. There all crooked liars though. This property tax issue nj has is out of control. Someone needs to get there head out of there *** and figure a way to get them dropped.
Forcefed4door 
The candidates Forcefed4door is mentioning is Joseph Rudy Rullo - Here is his campaign website: http://rullo2017.com/
I do not mind Ciaterelli but I think Guadagno will get the nomination, unfortunately. She has the slogan "better." Better than, who? Christie, who she was second in command under for the past 7.5 years and was also his Secretary of State? I may wind up voting for Rullo as I cannot vote for Singh with his legalization of marijuana position and he seems too far left for the GOP primary.
It is a shame that the NJ GOP does not have a better field of candidates than who is running. Would have loved to see Senator Doherty try a run for Governor, but he would have had to give up his State Senate seat to do so, since the State Senate is up for re-election this year. Hopefully he challenges Menendez for US Senate next year.
Here is a funny picture from Rullo's campaign Twitter account that is unfortunately, so true.
http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2017/06/where_the_candidates_running_to_succeed_christie_a.html#incart_river_home
Other thread closed due to duplication.
I like most of Hirsh Singh's ideas. Problem is, I only heard about him running last month. Because of that I don't think he has a chance. Usually a vote for someone who was that late in popping up in the mix is a wasted vote.
Me too Calico. Being a Libertarian I am always conflicted when not voting for them. Not surprising, all candidates (D & R) ad cost cutting ideas but what happens when he/she gets in? I can't trust any Democrat won't cave to the Unions...
Ciattarelli and Guadagno should be Democrats! They are both awful. We need a true conservative in that dump Trenton. As a second amendment guy, you people also better read up on these guys. Hirsh has my vote. Anyone that voted for the gas tax and absurd state House reno needs to go. Stand up and send these Trenton scumbags a message. Don't roll over and die like every election sheeple!
LJRubi Guadagno's property tax capped at 5% income is interesting for a Republican to promote, so I hear ya. I can't see this implemented properly with people pulling reported income shenanigans left and right...
H-town Mama Joe Rullo is going to get two votes, his and his mother's. He thinks he's President Trump Jr. LMAO
I seems NJ is even more screwed in this election, regardless of outcome, than the country was back in November.
skippy Really upsetting for sure. Such a highly populated state and we gotta pay such a premium to live here. We're paying for the leechers in certain towns, that's for sure. Nobody can fix it, or at least it's definitely not in their interest to.
Interesting article from The Star-Ledger about the election. They reference a poll where a third of voters do not know enough about Democratic front-runner Murphy and Republican front-runner Guadagno to form an opinion of them. Funny thing is Guadagno was Lt. Gov. and Secretary of State for almost eight years and no one knows who she is. She reminds me too much of a liberal Republican Hillary Clinton and you know she will lose in November. Wonder if Christie will campaign for her as he is another liability to her candidacy.
http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2017/06/as_governor_candidates_make_frantic_closing_argume.html
Democrats also picked another Corzine, Goldman Sachs Executive, who can bankroll his candidacy and the Democratic legislative candidates as well. How he is the front-runner and other cronies in the party like Steve Sweeney or Jersey City Mayor Steve Fulop are not running is odd, though they would be just as bad.
Another race to watch this November are the legislative races. Democrats may gain at least a seat in the State Senate with South Jersey GOP State Senator Diane Allen retiring who represented a Democratic-leaning district, and Democrats may pick up Jack Ciaterelli's Assembly seat (as he and a Democrat hold their districts two seats in their Somerset County District). Could be a reason also why Ciaterelli is running - he can self-finance his own race with his wealth and he probably would have lost his assembly seat had he run again, as his legislative district, is trending Democratic.
I am just not overly impressed with any of them. My main concern is taxes, and property taxes, and not one of them have any innovative or even fiscally conservative ideas. It's all SOSO, put a patch here, give a rebate there, all the old tricks and cover-ups.
The flippin property tax is too high, highest in the nation. So lower it. Now you have to raise taxes elsewhere to remain revenue neutral. So do it. No games, no "programs," just the fairest tax we can muster AND competitive with other states.
Now, if you get any extra revenue, let's talk paying down the debt (pensions).
And then straighten up that gas tax mandate to be earmarked only to transportation. That was funny for a year, but let's spend it where needed now versus earmarking to something that we don't know needs that kind of increase.
None of these candidates can come up with anything as simple as that and instead are just going to paper over it with programs we can't understand and will take years to determine they were useless.
We are so totally screwed in this state. Big money buys the election. They promise anything when they run and then do what they want when elected. Oroho lies and lies in his ads and mailings. His ads are paid for by a pac that is run by a union that profits from the gas tax. His running mate, Parker Space voted against the gas tax but now has aligned himself with Oroho and another Trenton insider, Harold Wirths.
I will vote for William Hayden. I haven't seen a single ad for him on tv but he has the advantage of not being Oroho.
"I will vote for William Hayden. I haven't seen a single ad for him on tv but he has the advantage of not being Oroho."
Ditto!
I get emails from the "Sussex County Watchdog" group, which recently sent me this email about William Hayden. Obviously, one should fact check, etc. but if unhappy with Oroho or someone else it leads me to believe that he may not be any better a choice.
Please note, I'm just reposting this, I have no part in creating the content, nor have I had a chance to fact check. I DO know that NJDOT (& the NJEPA) has been instrumental in blocking the finishing of the Lackawanna RR line rebuild to Andover (as per the Sussex County Herald). It's been ready for the last section to be finished for years now.
http://mailchi.mp/c69163efcb84/graham-blames-property-tax-increase-on-obamacare-506169?e=d6a32312ee
Happy reading and never mind the title shown on the link, it has nothing to do with the story I mentioned.
I agree with you Forcefed4door. Really no candidate on either side to rally behind and makes me not even want to vote in the primary election. The Republicans have a horrible slate of candidates as do the Democrats. I also agree with voting Oroho and Space out and not nominating Wirths. They rudely bumped off Gail Phoebus off their ticket for voting for the gas tax when Oroho seems to have supported it and now Space is on his ticket this primary election as well!
There has been a rotating group of assembly people in that district since Allison McHose resigned to become the Business Administrator in Franklin Borough and this current slate needs to be voted out. If you see the television ads with Oroho, Space and Wirths not one of them has any personality or charisma that a real leader should have. Their ads do not make them look likable.
Hackettstown has a much better legislative team of Doherty, DiMaio and Peterson.
GO VOTE TODAY!!
Can I vote?
If you are registered to vote, and you are registered as a Democrat, Republican, or Unaffiliated, you can vote. If you are Unaffiliated, you will have to declare your support for the party you wish to join at the polls. You will then be registered with that party unless you fill out the paperwork to switch back. New Jersey is a closed primary state.
Am I registered to vote?
https://voter.njsvrs.com/PublicAccess/servlet/com.saber.publicaccess.control.PublicAccessNavigationServlet?USERPROCESS=PublicSearch
Where is my polling place?
https://voter.njsvrs.com/PublicAccess/servlet/com.saber.publicaccess.control.PublicAccessNavigationServlet?USERPROCESS=PollingPlace
What's on the ballot?
Candidates for governor, state senate, general assembly, and other various local positions.
spreadsheet on the issues.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LEfqueATEbAMVZSc1cdmqyAklgHOfWMS7xADzjXEowk/htmlview?sle=true#gid=1412844910
I guess nobody in Warren County, or NJ for that fact is interested in change. Sigh....
NJ is a lost cause. Has been for awhile. Not loosing any more ground is all that can be hoped for. But it's inevitable.
NJ: one of the least-liberty states (bottom 5), one of the highest costs of living (ranked 41) and the HIGHEST property taxes in the nation. If I didn't have to stay here because of family, I would have been gone already.
I agree JR and am planning to get out as soon as I can. I'm tired of people re-electing candidates for their 5th, 6th, 10th, 11th etc. term.
So now we have Corzine 2.0 vs. Christie 2.0 in November. How's that going to work out? Guardagno has no chance to be honest. It's going to be very difficult to keep the Dems down in this one. Murphy said flat out, during his campaign, that he will raise taxes and still got over 200,000 votes. What is wrong with people?
I'm so frustrated I could spit. LOL
Yeah, Murphy may actually be the death knell for NJ. Just a matter of time.
He got many of those 200,000 votes from people who depend on those tax raises as their INCOME (but you know that). When the takers outnumber the givers, financial collapse is imminent. Perhaps NJ will show the rest of country what happens when you pass the tipping point...
Yeah that's a sorry state of affairs - did you see where Murphy stands on some of this stuff? If you think taxes are bad now hang on.
Cripes...I guess I'll have to vote for Christy 2.0. what an absolute disaster. I've got at least 20years before I'll be able to jump ship from NJ. And if taxes go way way up from what we have now...
"Cripes...I guess I'll have to vote for Christy 2.0."
Unfortunately, I don't think it will do you any good. She can't beat Murphy. Murphy is going to cram down everyone's throat the train wreck that was Christie. She will never be able to distance herself from being his Lt. Governor. That's why she is the last person Republicans need representing them in this election. The only chance Republicans had of winning, and it was a slim chance at that, was to get someone other than her up against Murphy.
It's amazing how we had 11 candidates to choose from, yet once again, we end up with garbage because people are too indifferent or lazy to get off their butts and go vote. Such a low turnout after such a controversial presidential election is just disgraceful.
Tracy re: low turnout
It's nothing new, but I have to wonder: do we get crap representatives because of low turnout, or is the low turnout because of the crap representatives?
I have to admit, in recent years, I have started to think it doesn't matter who we vote for, they all are either already corrupted, or become so once they get there. What's the point?
Well I for one found some people I've listened to and met and found educated, smart, compassionate - and worthy of my vote - No I don't say that for every one - but for the majority - Have you met and talked to any?
"He got many of those 200,000 votes from people who depend on those tax raises as their INCOME (but you know that). When the takers outnumber the givers, financial collapse is imminent. Perhaps NJ will show the rest of country what happens when you pass the tipping point..."
+ 1 JeffersonRepub; Phil Murphy is already on record supporting higher taxes, and more restrictive gun control. If you think NJ is broken now . . . just wait till he pushes through his outlandish out of touch and out of favor agenda.
"once again, we end up with garbage because people are too indifferent or lazy to get off their butts and go vote. Such a low turnout after such a controversial presidential election is just disgraceful."
+1 Tracy; I couldn't agree more. It's very sad to me to see the lack of engagement from those who are allways complaining about high property taxes which are out of control and going ever upwards with no end in sight. It's just not right that they feel so strongly about that issue and decide to stay away from the polls.
4catmom - I like your dedication to your cats, but you are a tax and spend liberal from the old school. Let me ask you a question. Are taxes ever too high for you? We all know you benefit personally from a nice state pension, and health care system and you are part of the civic worker government class. But seriously, is there no top end to ever increasing taxes? Don't you agree that the property tax is regressive and needs fundamental restructuring?
"4catmom - I like your dedication to your cats"
OMG hadenough, you made me spit water everywhere!!! LMAO
"Well I for one found some people I've listened to and met and found educated, smart, compassionate - and worthy of my vote"
Please don't tell me one of them is Phil Murphy? If so, proceed to the nearest ER.
"Please don't tell me one of them is Phil Murphy? If so, proceed to the nearest ER."
Or psychiatric ward....
Hadenough......you do not know me....what my income is....where it comes from...or how I feel about taxes.....your level of judgement of others is a bit much....meanwhile you may want to see how tax cuts have served Kansas....and why they now have to raise taxes
Hmmm . . . . . not exactly a denial of what I posted. Maybe I'm more right than wrong? So why don't you answer the questions simply and honestly then?
Murphy is absolutely committed to making this race all about Trump. Look at his ad which has the description "The 2017 New Jersey Governor Race is Shaping up to be a Referendum on President Donald Trump.". Ignore this at your peril.
So who is this guy? You guys will absolutely LOVE his plan - I am surprised he is not an HL poster...
Released a "Unite Against Trump" video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMs-NajuNdw
calls Trump "so-called President".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FOeW2-0fxw
Brings out the radical campus clubs goes full pander to identity politics
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tku1U8C1gdc
Vows to establish an "Office of Immigrant Defense"
https://www.murphy4nj.com/2017/01/murphy-calls-for-state-office-to-assist-immigrants-caught-in-trumps-web/
Wants to give state-ID cards and financial aid to illegal immigrants
https://youtu.be/Tku1U8C1gdc?t=3m44s
if the last American in NJ could please take the flag with you when you leave it would be great.
ok Skippy, I will fold up the flag and bring it with me as I head south to where America begins. They won't be needing it here anymore.
I'll leave it to JeffersonRepub and Calico to turn out the lights on their way out. Don't want to expand our carbon footprint any more than necessary.
What a total tool this Murphy is.
And the biggest "tool" or fools are the voters who have or will vote for him. I guess most don't own homes because as bad as it is now, forget about where the taxes will be if he gets in. . Where are the individuals in this State who actually would make us want to vote for them, believe them , trust them? Not 1. Not a fan of Guadagno either. We are doomed folks.
justwondering Skippy, for someone eulogizing NJ, you sure do spend an inordinate amount of time on virtually every HL thread...the Great American South not as great as you claim?
But I love talking to you guys :) - I work from home so it's easy to post since I am in front of a machine anyway - thanks for the concern though
"We are doomed folks."
Yes, we are. NJ will probably be completely bankrupt by 2027.
I was very concerned! I'm so relieved, here's a joke for you...
What do a redneck divorce and a burning meth lab have in common?
A: Someone’s losing a trailer.
Speaking of lack of voter concern, where I live presently (Hopatcong, though looking to get back into Hackettstown) I went home to vote after watching a movie after work. In my voting District it turned out that at 7:20pm or so, there were 58 Republican and 37 Democrats who had voted up until that time. Less than 100 votes and I imagine 5 of those were the pollworkers' votes.
There was no competition against the Republican mayor who was appointed by the (Republican) council when our former mayor was elected as Sux. Freeholder. There were also no slots on the ballot for the Dem. Party for Mayor, nor for the various City Counsel positions that will be contested (or should I say "uncontested" in November).
While the Republicans do hold a majority of votes, it seems ridiculous to me that there is no dissent at the polls. I, as a registered Republican, actually find it a bit annoying that the town is one big "rubber stamp".
Come November, just as in most of the other uncontested elections, there will be tons of signage, some of which won't later be removed that tell you to vote for candidates that are running uncontested. Talk about a waste of resources and money. I mean do they have to spend a minimal amount to qualify for something later? It seems absolutely wasteful to me and even being a Republican, it would be nice to see a bit more in the way of ideas and let me put it bluntly - CHOICE. I mean is everyone happy that the town budget and taxes have gone up the way they have and that the residents of certain areas are still shouldering a $1,000+/year levy on the sewage system installation? I know I'm not. My vote for Mayor went to a write in for a co-worker/neighbor, as did another resident's vote. While no, I don't have the time or incentive/impetus to run for Mayor (or I would), the fact that I hear complaints from people also, but never see much on any ballot besides wasteful sign expenditures and more uncontested elections with no fresh ideas.
But then, maybe it's just that nobody else wants the job(s) either.
By the way, it was interesting to see in the Gubernatorial Primary, Hirsh Singh was able to grab 10% of the Republican vote. If he'd decided to run earlier and gotten his ideas out there and been able to debate more, perhaps we would have had a true outsider with fresh ideas running for Governor in November.
I heard a conspiracy theory yesterday that Singh was a plant by the Guardagno campaign to take votes away from Ciattarelli. I don't believe that, but in this world you never know.
So you just put it out there and preserve your innocence by saying you don't believe it. So...I hear Russia has video of Trump with hookers. I don't believe it, but I heard....
Calico
Isn't it always funny how people assume that one candidate will take votes only from a certain other one. Who knows how many votes he (Singh) may have taken from Guadagno herself? That's just one reason why I don't believe it. Besides, why would an outsider rather than another politico "buddy" that's on the DL be tapped to be the "Ciaterrelli votebuster"? That way, they could get someone who's more comfortable with public speaking and could give them a "script" to follow, knowing that after the election they'll receive a plum appointment should the Nov. election be won or be owed politically should they lose in Nov..
Gotta love monday morning quarterbacks, whether they be voters, the candidate or the candidate's "team" who throw out any manner of conspiracy theories as to why the candidate didn't win, besides the fact that they didn't have the people's support due either to disagreement with their policies, lack of communicating their policies effectively enough for the people that would agree with them to then support them, or just being a bad candidate overall with too many questions as to their ethics, etc.
I figured you'd be too astute to believe that;-)
No matter how much you hate Trump or how liberal you are, the only reason you'd vote for Murphy is if your leechers. And that's the problem with NJ. It's becoming the majority here to be a leecher. You can find most of them in blue districts, sad but true. This is pretty dang bad.
Prop 13 in New Jersey, demand it folks:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_13_(1978)
Wtf. Lucky sobs in California (as far as property taxes are concerned). We need that bad.
not so sure prop 13 has done that much good - read this if you're really interested: https://taxfoundation.org/prop-13-california-35-years-later/
"Gotta love monday morning quarterbacks, whether they be voters, the candidate or the candidate's "team" who throw out any manner of conspiracy theories as to why the candidate didn't win, besides the fact that they didn't have the people's support due either to disagreement with their policies, lack of communicating their policies effectively enough for the people that would agree with them to then support them, or just being a bad candidate overall with too many questions as to their ethics, etc."
Exactly Phil, which is why I said I don't believe it. The hot air in politics is astounding!
4catmom, overall it didn't solve a lot in CA but it protected overtaxing of homes. Like In have said before, how can a home be your castle when once has such a large tax burden. I call bullshi! on the current system.
We are no longer an agricultural economy where money creation comes from property, especially non-commercial property.
The property tax is the single most regressive tax we have. It hurts the lower economic class the worst. It is inherently unfair and need to change.
For a retired educator not to see this shows a remarkable level of tone deafness.
NJ's property tax is one of the most onerous and predatory taxes in the nation. It hurts the little guy the worst.
It's the single biggest reason why the middle class is fleeing NJ in droves.
Phil Murphy is on record as saying that we all need to work harder to earn more income so we can pay the tax increases he will impose on us. Really? why would anyone, a.n.y.o.n.e ever vote for him?
"Phil Murphy is on record as saying that we all need to work harder to earn more income so we can pay the tax increases he will impose on us. Really? why would anyone, a.n.y.o.n.e ever vote for him?"
Why, because he has a "D" beside his name, silly rabbit.
Work harder? Just as education workers are preparing for a 10 week siesta. Why every taxpayer is paying for pensions and retiree medical when this perk is gone elsewhere?
From the POV of public workers it is promised and not excessive. From private sector employees POV the promise was knowingly made in error (tomorrow's problem) and is excessive.
He was not my candidate but I just did a search to see where it says he will increase taxes - sorry - could not find it - but did find this in several places - this from nj.com: "Phil Murphy
Murphy, former U.S. ambassador to Germany and investment banker, believes that New Jersey will grow its way into property tax reductions and that an increase in incomes will reduce their impact on families.
He wants to fully fund public schools according to the current constitutional funding formula to provide state aid that offsets property tax increases.
He also wants to restore middle-class and senior citizen tax relief programs, to
promote shared services among town reduce expenses, and to require Wall Street banks to pay property taxes on foreclosed properties to reduce impacts on municipalities."
Nj.com in their endorsement of Murphy stated he plans to raise taxes by 1.5BB/yr
https://www.google.com/amp/amp.nj.com/v1/articles/20707570/our_endorsement_in_the_democratic_primary_phil_mur.amp
"To cover the cost, Murphy proposes a package of tax increases to raise roughly $1.5 billion a year"
from NJ.com :
To cover the cost, Murphy proposes a package of tax increases to raise roughly $1.5 billion a year, just under one-third the size of Gov. James Florio's tax increase in 1990, when adjusted for inflation.
Murphy hopes that economic growth will allow him to fund other programs like expanding preschool and college scholarships, and providing tax credits to boost child care, low-wage work, and affordable housing. But he sensibly starts with only modest tax hikes to support schools, pensions and transit.
Mark Mc. From school funding to mass transit, Murphy's campaign turns on tax hikes
Murphy, a Democrat running for his first elected office, has endorsed raising taxes on millionaires. He supports taxing the sale of marijuana, assuming it becomes legal by passing the Legislature now controlled by Democrats. Murphy figures it could potentially raise $300 million in revenue.
And on Thursday, Murphy expressed a willingness to consider imposing some sort of broad-based tax dedicated to mass transit funding.
Yet in many ways, he's a old school tax-and-spend Democrat. But what makes Murphy unusual is his willingness to endorse, or, as he did Thursday, at least openly consider, tax increases during a New Jersey statewide campaign.
Murphy has promised the Democratic Party voters an almost pain-free future, in which the state meets its annual obligation to fund the pension system, a cost that will rise to more than $3 billion next year.
If elected, Murphy says, he intends to fully meet the Supreme Court-approved formula for public school districts for the first time in a decade — a promise that could cost hundreds of millions of dollars. He promises to expand programs for preschoolers.
With the state up to its neck in debt, the only way to cover this ambitious price tag is to hope that the economy continues its rebound — and to raise taxes.
http://www.northjersey.com/story/news/2017/05/05/stile-democrat-murphy-doesnt-shy-away-talk-tax-hikes/311079001/
Anybody that is not a public worker or poor on welfare will want to leave even more so in the coming years. High property taxes kill home values as perspective buyers look at the monthly payment in aggregate for their mortgage plus property taxes.
Exit tax is fake news. There is no such tax, it is a withholding on existing taxes to make sure they are paid. If you already paid your tax, you get 100% of the withholding back.
Just joking, a joke about what we have too look forward to in a sarcastic manner. Bullheaded Democrats not budging on pensions, retiree medical, even medical in-line with the private sector. Can anyone deny excessive spending? If so, you are in some other reality...
kb2755 kb2755 - Yes there is, which is calculated whether you stay in NJ or not. That has nothing to do with what Skippy and iJay are talking about that does not exist.
I was kidding but if you sell any home in NJ there is a one point tax and if you don't buy another home in NJ it sure feels like an exit tax.
Here's more info on what GC is saying
https://www.google.com/amp/amp.nj.com/v1/articles/18238985/bamboozled_overtaxed_in_nj_heck_yeah_but_the_exit.amp
And it's very true that it drives home values down big time. You see what looks like a very well priced home in great condition, then you see the taxes... Then you realize you can't ever afford that unless it was 50-100k less. Eventually the house will sell for a large amount below asking because it was burdened with high taxes.
You can't use your property as a retirement fund, because every year as your taxes go up they begin to devalue your home. It's sickening.
Not to mention, the average house in Hackettstown has a yearly property tax burden of $11,000. Add to that the water/sewer bill, electric, garbage pickup, cable, property upkeep, etc,. and you're paying over $15,000 per year JUST to live in the house. That doesn't include food, clothing, doctors, etc.
Your average retiree/senior living on social security and savings can't cover that for long.
Heidi Just look at Sparta for the impact on McMansions. For 500k you can get a 4000sf monster but the taxes are around 20k per year.
We could be setup for a TRIPLE WHAMMY:
1) Highest property taxes (Already)
2) Depressed home values with no significant appreciation in sight (Already)
3) Bail out some of the public pension funds through new infusions (Upcoming)
Wake up folks. Why should the 10% of NJ residents who are public workers retirees dictate the terms for the other 90%?
Want to have an F bond rating? Default on a pension obligation- you can change it in the future but that does not impact the current obligations
Anyone else get the mailing:
https://www.insidernj.com/press-release/afpf-nj-starts-mail-campaign-safeguard-new-jerseys-future-effort-raising-awareness-pension-crisis/
For:
http://safeguardnjfuture.com
Yes, I got the mailer last week. Not sure it will do much good. Most people have blinders on or don't even bother to look at "junk" mail.
Even though we need pension reform, that mailing and the website is the Koch brothers. There's a lot more of an agenda than just "pension reform" or just NJ.
It might also be a good time to state the average Hackettstown tax bill is $7780, Independence is $7207, and Mansfield $7421.
"It might also be a good time to state the average Hackettstown tax bill is $7780, Independence is $7207, and Mansfield $7421."
Are you going somewhere this this? Other than "we need to raise taxes"???
We have the highest property taxes in the nation.
Those "average" homes would be how much in other states? Median property taxes in North Carolina and Florida, for example, run 1-2k...
JR - Look above. Someone said the average bill was $11,000. I was simply stating the correct numbers.
I am sure there are a lot of people paying 11k and more for property taxes in NJ, may not be the average but it is not "rich" people paying this.
I'm not rich and paying 10K in Independence. Well at least for the next month or so, sold my house in a week and expected closing is the end of July.
EVV Well, of course! I mean, come on.... money doesn't grow on trees, it grows on taxpayers!
"Not to mention, the average house in Hackettstown has a yearly property tax burden of $11,000"
Heidi can you tell me where you got that # from? because its about $4000 off. thanks
Jim L. Mark, will probably be heading to the Wilmington NC area. I spent some time there my last two vacations as well as time up in your neck of the woods (Greenville). I was going to retire at year end but I did not expect to sell the house so fast. Our thinking was we would rent short-term but that is not working out as planned. The rental market is very hot and no one is willing to do a short term leases especially with a house as we have two dogs. We found a house in Green Twsp who is willing to give us a 9 month lease. So it looks like my retirement date will be moved to March 31, 2018. Not a real big deal but we should have did our homework as we did not see this as being an issue. Headed back down that way in September. Thanks for asking.
Congrats on the retirement and escape from NJ!
Wish I could be closer to the coast (I'm near Greenville SC, not NC), but since I'm still far from retirement age I needed to go where the jobs are!
Sounds like a hectic year ahead for you, but it will all pay off in the long run.
Yes I know, I meant Greenville SC, I was there last September, beautiful country and that was our second choice.
Great news in PA on pension reform, need the same in NJ:
http://www.post-gazette.com/news/state/2017/06/12/pennsylvania-pension-reform-401-k-state-contribution-tom-wolf-legislation/stories/201706120171
LOL, 53 parting shots from Shamu! El Jefe!
https://patch.com/new-jersey/pointpleasant/chris-christie-signs-53-bills-law-raises-smoking-age?utm_content=newjersey&utm_campaign=blasts&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social
*Smoking age going to 21! (still allowed to die for your country at 18 though!)
*James Florio Day! ummm what?
*Designates USS New Jersey as New Jersey State Ship! (what else would it be? the Maine?)
Boy Ijay if that is not a no-brainer for the kids in Trenton, I don't know what is.
Not that I think it's the right thing, but that ship has passed and it's certainly the inevitable thing and every day we wait, we spend more than we should.
"*Smoking age going to 21! (still allowed to die for your country at 18 though!)"
Absolute absurd. The smoking and drinking age laws are ridiculous. If you can decided everything else in life, without parental consent, at 18 why can't you choose if you want to smoke or drink?
SD, stocks are doing great but a "correction" or i.e. selloff will occur. What happens if 2018 pension investment returns are near zero or god forbid negative?
What we need is a 10 year freeze followed by a true 2% cap (no exceptions, no banking, etc.) long with a lifetime cap on taxes versus assessed market value. Then we will have true property owed tax reform!
Latest polling in the Governor's Race:
http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2017/07/what_new_poll_says_about_race_to_succeed_christie.html
Phil Murphy chooses former Assembly Speaker Sheila Oliver as his Lieutenant Governor running mate:
http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2017/07/murphy_picks_a_running_mate_who_needs_no_introduct.html#incart_river_home
Pensions, caps, stocks, property tax --- you said a mouthful but I am nkt sure what exactly. Sorry.
Murphy and Oliver? We will get taxed to death. If the election goes this way will need to prepare for an earlier leave from NJ...
Found this funny link online from The Star-Ledger. Best of Christie Beach Gate cartoons:
http://www.nj.com/opinion/index.ssf/2017/07/all_the_hilarious_cartoons_mocking_christies_beachgate_moment.html#incart_river_index
What are your latest thoughts on the candidates?
I'm not crazy about Kim, but there really is no other choice IMO. Murphy looks and seems as smarmy as they come. If NJ becomes a sanctuary state, I'm with ijay. I'll probably have to cash in my NJ chips and expedite my exit.
Old Gent Read some articles by Mulshine in the Ledger, Murph has no answers to any of his proposals and I can’t find anything positive said about Kim. I think we’re in deep trouble, they can’t take any more if my money.
I may cast a vote for a third party.
Roywhite I actually looked into Pete Rohrman, the Libertarian candidate, but it seems like a wasted vote. His tax reform calls for a fiscal democracy and I don't think all that many people will go for that.
https://www.pete4nj.com
Not enough Libertarians like iJay...
It took Libertarian influence to get the property taxes under control in California (although the rest of their finances is not good but at least peoples' castles are left alone unlike in this state).
To speak bluntly, too many takers in this state.
My vote will either be for Kim or Pete. I am leaning towards Kim as I cannot have Murphy as the next Governor...
Once again, the lesser of 2 evils....
Hey Ian, will voting 3rd party accomplish anything on a governor level?
JR, no. Surprise, surprise, NJ's election laws base State sponsored campaign funding and debate eligibility on how much $ you bring to the table. So, voting 3rd party doesn't help in that respect. If you want to get a 3rd party on equal footing with the D's and Rs, you have to vote with your wallet. Why am I not surprised?
That Murphy guy is disturbing to look at. If he were smart, he would keep himself out of his political ads and do nothing but show Guadagno standing next to Chris Christie. That should be enough for the win...
OMG! I have been saying that for months. He has the look of a super creepy pedophile. Don't worry though, he's got your back and will get your wallet too. ;-)
No way am I voting for a guy who wants to make this a sanctuary state. We have enough issues without adding that nonsense to the mix...
Metsman He is disturbing to look at. With all of his $$, you think he could afford better dental work.
Neither candidate is all that great. I've met Guadagno. She came to my workplace for a job growth initiative several years ago and she came off much better in that environment than how she shows on tv. Still not all that excited about her.
ICE arrested 36 people last week that were previously arrested for child abuse, guns, drug dealing, DUI etc. and let free by Middlesex County without notifying the proper federal authorities. If NJ became a sanctuary state, can you imagine how many more illegal criminals would flock here?
https://patch.com/new-jersey/woodbridge/ice-arrests-36-middlesex-county-all-just-released-middlesex-county-jail
It's an absolute joke to let people like that go, who are illegal... What happened to protecting your own citizens...
Murphy wins this race easily, probably 60% to 40%. Guadagno is tied to Christie, who was one of the worst Governors of this state and is nothing but a bully and no one knows who Guadagno is, even though she has been the Lieutenant Governor AND Secretary of State for the past eight years.
The GOP in NJ is dead again in NJ thanks to Christie. His attitude alone killed Guadagno's chances and she should have never been the nominee as she is a flawed candidate. Look for the GOP to lose even more seats in the Assembly and State Senate this year.
Whether people like it or not Murphy is our next Governor for the next eight years. And can we stick to political reasons why the candidates are flawed not their teeth and need for dental work? If we are going to go that route, based on his girth Christie should have never been elected Governor as he is truly ugly inside and out. Governor Murphy come January, get used to it.
Murphy is likely to get the governorship mainly due to the dislike of Christie. If Murphy gets the nod, be prepared to have taxes raised. Also, Murphy has stated he favors a sanctuary state. So illegals will not be rounded up, they'll be protected using NJ taxparey funds. Ladies and gentlemen, please fasten your seatbelt and assume the crash position.
BC People aren't thinking clearly if they'll vote for this guy just because Christie is a tool... I'd rather deal with the status quo then let this fruit cake in and make our streets less safe...
Get out and vote for Kim. sanctuary state? This guy is a bucktoothed jackass. who is going to decide which federal laws NJ will follow Phil Murphy?
Oh, Murphy will win, the state will get the governor it deserves based on it's intelligence level. (With Guadagno the intelligence level would only be a little higher, LOL)
So yeah, illegals won't be illegal, they will run here, taxpayer money will be used, and oh yeah... more gun control. Nj needs a wall built around IT.... to keep it from infecting the rest of the country LOL.
Metsman that "fruitcake" has been in for eight years and his name is Chris Christie and I am a Republican saying this. Guadagno was his apologist for eight years and she needs to be voted out on Election Day.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&t=33m33s&v=S0uaqqdp6mA
She is doing herself no favors that’s for sure
resident08, Kim Guadano did her job while deputy to Christe. You vote for Murphy and you will be cutting off your nose to spite your face.
"resident08, Kim Guadano did her job while deputy to Christe. You vote for Murphy and you will be cutting off your nose to spite your face."
Truth. But this time around, most are only thinking as deeply as "the opposite of Christie".
You know, presidential elections are much the same:
8 years of Reagan
4 years of Bush (whoops)
8 years of Clinton
8 years of Obama
? years of Trump (still waiting for those impeachment proceedings ROFLMAO)
Don't count Kim out just yet. Yet again, I will to vote for the LP candidate (my party) as he has no chance. We need to be saved from the Democratic spending machine in NJ (as in most states).
I'll Never vote for a democrat again after all the lies from obama and his party. Have no choice but to vote for kim. If she wins the dems will blame trump or russia or some one else instead of looking inward at themselves.WE need a great independent...
sadlad I see why the country has become as it is....the emperor has no clothes and the blind don't care...
Unfortunately, both Republicans and Democrats are not independent. This being said there Democrats are currently in the pocket of the unions; great if you are a union member but far less than great for the other 85% of the state. I urge all of you to consider this fact...
Election Day is November 7th, Tuesday.
Vote for Kim, and if she loses, let's all get on a plane with all the other sane people in this state and go to Pennsylvania, North Carolina and Florida.
Murphy wants a SANCTUARY STATE for NJ! Do YOU?? Vote for Kim and help keep our citizens safe!
Copygirl Any one except four more years of Christie and his supporters who did nothing while Christie destroyed NJ. Kim was the 2nd in charge who stood by, said and did nothing and does not deserve any support.................Those are the facts. If you are not sure do the research. Kim is one of the big reasons NJ is in trouble.
jono Murphy if he trys to make NJ a sanctuary state I will try my hardest to get him impeached
Miss Liberty
Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door! The Statue of Liberty-Ellis Island Foundation, Inc.
NO were dose it say to sneek your way in and not follow the set laws to enter I will always welcome new new americans
Caged Animal Jono this state has been on the decline for decades. People and businesses were leaving prior to Christie being elected. You want to finish the job then Murphy will do it by turning this into a sanctuary state. The terrorist who killed the 8 people in NYC lived in Patterson. You want to invite more guys like that here?
Metsman, please inform yourself before going to the polls. You didn't even know when election day was FFS. Sanctuary state has NOTHING to do with the terrorist attack in NY on Tuesday. He was here LEGALLY and he was indoctrinated IN THIS COUNTRY!
And it's Paterson.
All true Tracy. However, that visa lottery nonsense does need to be stopped and any associates of that man, who knew what he was up to, need to be deported immediately. That includes his wife and kids.
Attention NJ gun owners, please vote for Kim Guadagno for governor. Phil Murphy has promised to sign every gun bill into law that makes it to his desk. As we know, better than most, more gun laws will not keep illegal guns out of the hands of criminals. No gun violence will be avoided by more laws since criminals don't care about laws. The only thing that will come from these laws will be more red tape and expense for law abiding gun owners. Do you want to have to renew your FID card, and pay a fee to do so, every 4 years? How about having to pay $50 for a handgun purchase permit, or having to get a purchase permit every time you want to buy a rifle or shotgun? I don't think you do. NJ is already one of the most restrictive states when it comes to firearms. So please get out and vote for Kim to keep what little is left of our 2nd Amendment rights in NJ.
Tracy excuse me for typing an extra T... I knew the general time frame, and not knowing the exact day is a moot point. I would have just googled it and found it. The terrorist was here on an expired visa, so no he wasn’t here legally.
"Do you want to have to renew your FID card, and pay a fee to do so, every 4 years? "
Is this really putting you out that much? You have to do that for the privilege of driving. Gun ownership should be even more onerous IMO.
MB Metsman,
It's always the first Tuesday in November. Not too hard to remember if you vote all the time.
Really, because people forget to stop at stop signs all the time. Here's looking at all you idiots I honk at turning off of Washington street in front of me when I have the right of way going straight...
Actually it is not always the first Tuesday, it is the first Tuesday after a Monday. So it'll never fall on November 1st, and can never happen after the 8th.
Agust Metsman, can you provide a source for your claim that he was here on an expired visa?
"Is this really putting you out that much? You have to do that for the privilege of driving. Gun ownership should be even more onerous IMO."
Actually, it is being put out a bit much. More paperwork and more frequent and higher fees. These laws just penalize the lawful, not the criminals.
I can't find where I saw it, may not have been legit. A sanctuary state still is a bad idea. If you're for that then make sure you do a meet and greet with the MS-13 gangs that start pouring in. It's a dangerous world and this rosy outlook of letting anyone in and then protecting them when they break the law is naive.
No need to debate this as Murphy beats Guadagno in a landslide. She is an enabler as she was second in command to one of the worst Governors and bullies politics has ever seen and just look at the polls:
Monmouth Poll - November 1 - Murphy 53%, Guadagno 39%
Suffolk Poll - October 30 - Murphy 49%, Guadagno - 33%
Emerson Poll - October 29 - Murphy 47%, Guadagno 31%
I am a registered Republican voting for Murphy and Kimmy G. sent no mailings to me and usually I get mailings from all Republican candidates since I am a registered Republican. The fact that Murphy wants tougher gun laws, Calico is the reason to vote for him not against him as Guadagno getting the NRA endorsement works to her already large disadvantage, the other one being Christie and the fact she did nothing or said nothing in the past eight years.
Governor Murphy come Tuesday. Deal with the reality that it will happen thanks to Christie and that this is a Democratic state.
Metsman - What ever you saw was not legit. Saipov didn't have a visa, he had a green card. The initial visa is just to get here. Then he had 6 months to get a job and apply for the green card. He did that and still had 3 years left to go on his green card. The info about Murphy is wrong too. During the debate Murphy distinguished between kids who came here because of their parents, and criminals committing heinous acts who should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. His position seems to be pro-DACA but not expanding it from there.
GC ok and he said he would make this a sanctuary state. So protecting about 20,000 or so kids brought here by their parents outweighs the safety of the almost 9 million people in the state? Read about some of the horror stories in California. No good comes from making this a sanctuary state.
resident08 - You must be on the republicans bad side. I've gotten mailers from Kim almost every day for the last three weeks.
Personally, I will never vote for any candidate that wants to increase our already ridiculous gun laws regardless of what party they represent. And who do you expect the NRA to back? Murphy? LMAO
Metsman - I'm not commenting on the wisdom or lack of it for any policies of either candidate. Just trying to understand what they are proposing. Murphy's position from what he said was no adult would be protected, and no one committing serious crimes would be protected.
As a side note on the ads, I've been getting more than one ad a day from her. And worse from the local candidates. Maybe one every third day from Murphy.
The NRA backing Guadagno is a joke as she is just as liberal as Murphy. She is a RINO (Republican in Name Only). Tougher gun laws are needed in this country, and any politician who does not support tougher gun control legislation needs to be voted out of office. Guadagno does not have to worry as she will be out of office come Tuesday. I would not be Calico "LMAO" if you do not support tougher gun control legislation. Murphy gets it and will win on Tuesday.
Kimmy G. cannot afford many mailers and her signs are terrible and cheap-looking. The GOP in this state is going back to the wilderness now due to Christie and Guadagno being a Hillary-like enabler to Christie's bad behavior these past eight years.
I voted for Trump (which I now regret) and usually vote the entire GOP ticket each year, but I am voting for all the Democrats this year. Governor Murphy come Tuesday. Thank God a Governor who is not polarizing, wants tougher gun control laws and will get things done in Trenton. I can also guarantee Murphy's running mate, Sheila Oliver will be more known than Guadagno ever was because Oliver will actually do the job she was elected to and not have to be an apologist, like Kimmy G was for the fat one.
Stop using this bs cliche "I am a registered republican", you remind me of a very simple man by another name on this forum.
If you care about not being overtaxed you will vote for Kim, unless you are a public worker where Murphy has already sold his soul to the unions and Trenton liberals.
Best of luck Resident08, make sure you have your hand on your wallet at all times as Murphy and Oliver will be attempting to grab anything you have left in it. When it is empty they will find other ways to grab your hard earned money. That being said, all politicians suck in my honest opinion.
calico is spot on correct;
resident08 said "Tougher gun laws are needed in this country" - - - what gun laws are you suggesting?
what part of 'Shall Not Be Infringed' is so hard to comprehend?
Murphy will be a disaster for our state, period.
BrotherDog "Sheila Oliver", anyone who thinks she is "good" is either from the ghetto or a teacher. That is what you are resident08 right?
SAY HER NAME October 18, 2017
Dear Gun Control Activists,
Do you know who Carol Bowne is?
Since you advocate for more gun control, you absolutely should know who she is.
When you go to sleep at night, her face should be in your dreams.
When you pray, if you pray, she should be in your prayers.
You should repeat her name every single time you promote laws that restrict law abiding citizens from having and carrying guns.
Carol Bowne.
Carol Bowne died waiting for the state of New Jersey, specifically her local police department, to allow her to protect herself with a gun.
Had national reciprocity been passed, had shall-issue concealed carry been the law of the land, Carol would still be alive.
Carol Bowne died at the hands of her violent ex because you allowed her to. Because you advocate that women like her shouldn’t be allowed to choose how they protect themselves.
https://shaynalopezrivas.com/
"Kimmy G. cannot afford many mailers and her signs are terrible and cheap-looking. "
Oh, that's it... I'm voting for Murph.
No wonder the state of the state (and the union) is in the shape it's in, with intelligencia like that voting....
Metsman you are an alarmist. I think you would be more comfortable and perhaps feel safer in Alabama. Not every Muslim is bad just like every Irishmen was not a member of the IRA.
BD,
What state is this?
"I am not allowed to carry my gun when getting my education, though I can carry my gun everywhere else I go."
Dodgeball Please don't vote for Murphy. My taxes are so high already. I want someone (anyone) who will bring down all the various taxes I pay...
"That Murphy guy is disturbing to look at."
"her signs are terrible and cheap-looking. "
"Murphy looks and seems as smarmy as they come."
"He has the look of a super creepy pedophile. "
Looks. Whatever happened to "don't judge a book by it's cover."
Guess that logic has been thrown out the window by some of the poster's here.
Watch "The Orville" season 1 episode 7, it would be the perfect scenario for this.
Say what you want about Chris Christie , he worked to keep property taxes down and get the out of control state government pensions somewhat under control . But he once caused a traffic jam and was rude to the wimpy politically correct crowd and is viewed as anti-union so hang da bastid ! Murphy wants to raise education spending by 9 billion dollars and return state government pension funding to unsustainable levels so get ready for major tax hikes ! Yes he will probably win on Tuesday and be a one term and done big spending tax raising governor in the moldy mold of Jim Florio and end up being an easy target for the next moderate republican candidate in 2021 . If he doesn't lose his office from some scandal before then ! I've got my doubts about a Wall Street crook who spent 18 million to win his own party's nomination lasting even one term .
realitycheek dodgeball -
http://www.nj.com/camden/index.ssf/2015/06/berlin_murder_victim_told_neighbor_about_gun_permi.html
http://www.courierpostonline.com/story/news/crime/2015/06/04/woman-fatally-stabbed-berlin-twp/28461361/
Shayna Lopez Rivas has a compelling and serious story to share, and it's a personal right to be able to arm yourself with your own weapons that you own, possess and carry about with you on your person as you go about your daily business, this has been enshrined in common law since the magna carter, and is protected from government intrusion by the bill of rights, and now Phil Murphy will do everything he can to limit your individual rights to self protection and ban all kinds of firearms. Don't let it happen. What part of 'Shall Not Be Infringed' is so hard for Phil Murphy to understand and respect??
JeffersonRepub - you clearly did not get my message about gun control and do not mock intelligence. I have taught Political Science at a college level for ten years, was Chairman of the Zoning Board of the town I grew up in and ran several Republican local races. This party has no clue and I cannot vote for a woman weak on gun control and enabled the worst Governor in NJ History - Chris Christie.
Calico wanting people protected with tougher gun control laws is BEING in touch with reality. Give me a break.
Heidi - your taxes are high because the Governor who helps balance the budget is a REPUBLICAN named Chris Christie. Democrats want tax cuts across the board and Murphy with a Democratic legislature will do that. Christie, Trump and the GOP that controls Washington are the reasons your taxes are high.
IJay - I am a Professor who would feel the same about Oliver if I was not in education. You could never qualify to teach as your opinions show just how downright uneducated and uninformed you are. Plus that ghetto comment you made was very racist and you are showing just how trashy you are.
They both suck but anyone that votes the Murphy ticket is straight up brain dead. PERIOD.
Isn't it amazing (or maybe not) that an unknown like Murphy gets the nomination when the likes of Steve Sweeney and Raymond Lesniak who were seen to be frontrunners and we'll known didn't even put up a fight to get the nomination. I guess George Norcross is the one that picks the Democratic nominee. What a joke.
BD,
When in NJ was any common person allowed to carry? What is Kim going to do to bring the right to carry in NJ?
Nothing.
You already are in a state that hates gun ownership. I don't care who you vote for, carrying won't be happening here anytime soon.
Common law, Magna Carta, bill of rights- not in NJ..
OTOH, kick an innocent man (injured in an accident, and lit on fire), well....
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Burning-Man-Beaten-Police-Officers-Jersey-City-Chase-Was-Innocent-Bystander-427098313.html
By the way, now that that poor guy is "burned" and does not look so good, hopefully when he does get a trial he is not judged by his "looks" like some people tend to do. Innocent guy gets burned through no fault of his own could possibly be judged by his looks....
resident08 said "wanting people protected with tougher gun control laws"
question for you: What new guns laws are you suggesting? What tougher law would protect people . You have so far provided nothing specific. Please explain.
do they write laws just to get their name in a book of laws that no one inforces more gun laws is not the answer I have all ready voted and will wait to see what happens
49 Billion with a "B." Now that's alot of scratch. Sorry resident08 but that number can't all be Christie. And you say Murphy is going to cut taxes-so who pays back the 49B?
I guess were gonna try to kick the can down to the great great great great grandchildren.
And they will file for bankruptcy....
http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2017/02/njs_pension_deficit_reached_491_last_year.html
For those who are worried about this issue, relax..
Most posters on here will be dead by this time...
"In the total U.S. population, non-Hispanic whites will cease to be the majority group by 2044, according to Census Bureau projections."
dodgeball- don't miss the point of the seriously compelling story : (from the link) :
Carol Bowne died waiting for the state of New Jersey, specifically her local police department, to allow her to protect herself with a gun.
Had national reciprocity been passed, had shall-issue concealed carry been the law of the land, Carol would still be alive.
Carol Bowne died at the hands of her violent ex because you allowed her to. Because you advocate that women like her shouldn’t be allowed to choose how they protect themselves.
I am advocating for choice.
Choice. So that women like me are not raped because I am not allowed to carry my gun when getting my education, though I can carry my gun everywhere else I go.
Choice. So that women like Carol can protect themselves before it’s too late when the police department is incapable of providing protection.
Make no mistake, Carol Bowne died BECAUSE of you and people like you.
Yes cops making a mistake shot dead by an innocent man who had the right to pack heat , who would've most likely got shot and killed by other cops would have totally solved that situation LMFAO ! Lord knows anyone who dares to kick or punch another human being deserves to be sentenced to death by hot lead on the spot ! Schoolkids should be allowed to pack heat , solve that bullying problem literally overnight . Hillbillys too damn wimpy to step outside the door without a gun move to PA where literally almost everyone is allowed to act like it's the old west .
who are you calling a hillbilly? whats your point?
the individual right to keep and bear arms is one that each and everyone of us already possesses. the rights are an inherent part of our beings. the rights don't come form the government, all individuals already have them, the bill of rights prohibits the government from infringing upon these inherent individual rights that are already part of each and everyone of us.
Women should have the ability to keep and bears arms for their own protection, sorry you don't agree with that. Carol Bowne died at the hands of her violent ex because you allowed her to. Because you advocate that women like her shouldn’t be allowed to choose how they protect themselves.
What part of 'Shall Not Be Infringed' is so hard for Phil Murphy to understand and respect?
BD,
Not sure what you think I missed.
If NJ had concealed carry, maybe her ex would have had one too and it could have ended in a draw- or she could have freaked out and had the same result, or possibly she would still be alive.
To say she still would be alive is a bit of a stretch, one does not know this as surely as this is written.
Laws are different in other states. You can move to one which supports your views better, or you can try to change the law in the state you live in.
Changing the law in the direction you are talking about in NJ, you have a better chance of putting the sand back into the ocean than getting CCW in NJ.
Also, I won't bother to link, but almost every website I looked at stated women wanted TIGHTER gun control laws , not looser. I'm sure in different states the numbers vary, but overall women are against gun ownership, not for it. A little irony for the story. Mace will have to do the job for now.
Back on topic
Which one of these two fine candidates are going to address the the 49 billion dollar elephant in the room.
Methinks neither.
Kick the can once again...
Pepper spray is legal and if you don't believe that will stop an attacker spray some near your face or even onto your hand and hold it near your face . Republicans and democrats will never change the gun laws in a small state with large urban populations , whereas PA which is a much larger state with a smaller population per square mile allows the right to carry. It ain't rocket science , the larger issue here is taxes since the guns laws won't change under either party . So throw that NRA propaganda BS mail into the garbage like I do . Just because I'm a gun owner doesn't mean some organization with a political agendas can tell me what to think . Quite the opposite in fact !
This is a fairly simple choice for me. It comes down two things. Well, really one and one that contributes to the first one. Taxes and illegal immigration -- notice liberals I said illegal.
How anyone can support Murphy when he admits he is going to raise taxes is beyond me. At least with Guadagno there is hope. Murphy's plan to throw more money at education -- he's really talking about the inner cities -- is a total waste of money. This has been proven time and time again to me a failed strategy. Just ask Mark Zuckerberg about his $100M donation to Newark. All the money in the world is not going to fix the schools in those cities. When the overwhelming majority of parents in those cities wake up and actually start to parent - then you'll see progress. In other words never - it's an endless cycle.
As for the illegal immigrants - enough already. I'm not talking about all of the day laborers that we all see on Main Street everyday. Some of those guys may actually be here legally on work visas - fine. But, once they overstay those visas - they become illegal. Which, may have been their plan all along. Regardless of how they reached our shores, if they are here illegally, they are criminals. No state, city, town, church or private home should harbor these individuals. If you don't think illegal immigrants impact your taxes - you need to open your mind and expand your thinking. Many of these people know how to 'work' our system far better than most of us that fund it.
@resident8 - I have no idea what school you teach/taught at, but your comments are the exact reason we have some many ignorant "social justice warriors" running around school campuses today.
Professor of what? Education. LOL. I don't want to teach. Teaching today is nothing like it was long long ago in a place far far away -- Greece...
Resident08 wrote, "Democrats want tax cuts across the board and Murphy with a Democratic legislature will do that".
Wow, if you believe that I want some of what your smoking.
Just politician-talk. NJ needs to get back to what it was in thew 1970s and earlier. A place for all, young and old. A lot of potential in NJ, we are at the fork in the road; let's see which way we go...
The mailers are bad enough but I actually had the "trio of twits" (Doherty, DiMaio and Peterson) show up on my doorstep. Luckily, I wasn't home at the time... I still had to disinfect the porch, though.
ianimal - At least your "trio of twits" is better than mine. None of yours voted for the gas tax last year.
ru Had this disturbed woman not had a firearm, these 2 children would be alive today.
Or is it her husband's fault as some have suggested, that he did not "make sure" she did not have access to a weapon.
Choice. These two young children had NO choice as to their future.
Choice. Maybe the father should have been able to protect himself and his children.
Make no mistake, KayLee and Kenlie died BECAUSE of you and people like you.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/11/03/texas-mom-accused-killing-2-kids-hours-after-deputies-visit-home.html
BRING ON THE LEGAL WEED - Main St. is about to turn into an episode of The Walking Dead!
scottso 
Greg Why are we doomed? Were we doomed after 8 years of Obama, Christie, Corzine, the friggin whole Bush family who put us in war for 15 years?? If you cannot afford Jersey then leave, it's pretty simple just leave. Be like the celebrities who left after Trump was elected. Oh that's right no one left, they just bitch and bitch and bitch. NJ is corrupt, has been and probably always will be. Go to the Carolina's or Delaware.
But yes legal weed is soon to be. Long over due. Curious how effective law enforcement will be on concentrating on the opioid crisis. It's more dangerous business for them to earn a dollar that way.
not fooled It is indeed doomed. Leave now while you still can... Such a joke what this state has become...
Greg, guess "we" should be protesting and rioting in the streets. Oh wait, wrong side. We object, get annoyed and move on. Can't wait for the smokers to be driving around, stoned. Let's legalize everything, as long as it can be taxed.
justwondering - +1.
And don't forget about the teens who will be making $15/hr. (new NJ minimum wage) to take your order at McDonald's.
Maybe I should go light a NJ flag on fire. Nah, not my style. We will either be able to handle the tax increase or we will leave. Nothing we can really do about it at this point in time. The day marches on.
justwondering,
The type of people who are going to drive around stoned are already driving around stoned. Hate to break it to you.
Trump snowflakes complaining about high taxes to come, like the taxes were low before. Please just leave NJ already. Go to Idaho, N. Dakota, S.Dakota, Utah, or some other Mormon state. But please really leave. Just bitching and staying makes you a hypocrite. There are plenty of no culture boring states that people go to. But much like anything else, you get what you pay for. Nothing like being envious over different shades of green grass.
downcast Not fooled, anger is a path to the dark side. Not sure what you’re mad about. You will be mad when more illegals start coming into the state when it’s a sanctuary state. Small businesses will fail having to pay $15 per hour. Unemployment will go up because companies will cut jobs. Murphy won because he preyed on peoples dislike of Christie and got all these McDonald’s and Walmart workers thinking NJ will be a paradise with him in office and them making twice as much. Companies will find ways around it. If people really want to help themselves then go to college and get a degree in something that will be useful and pay well. Hard work is what gets you what you want. Coming out of high school or dropping out to flip burgers is laziness at its finest. The next step down is collecting a welfare check.
I'm not angry at all. I just wish people that said they wanted to leave the state would actually leave. My point is that people bitch for the sake of bitching and most are uniformed. My taxes have gone up every year, regardless. Thankfully I have money. I am also fortunate to be well traveled. I have been to 48 states and you know what I'm happy to live here in NJ corruption and all. So please those that want out go.
If you believe Kim would have saved us I guess you'd like to tell us how Hilary would have done the same?
"The real tragedy is that only 40% voted."
Was it even that high? I agree it's a tragedy.
not fooled - Just because someone can afford more taxes doesn't mean they want to or should have to pay them. Nobody is leaving overnight just because Murphy was elected. Most people, myself included, will probably see where things go over the next two or three years and make a decision then.
Getting out isn't as easy as you make it seem. My husband and I have never planned to live in NJ forever. We have always planned on leaving when we retire. My in-laws are in their 80's and my husband doesn't want to move away while they are still living. Additionally, we cannot move to PA without my husband losing his job. He is required to live in NJ to hold his position. Different people have different circumstances which rule whether they can stay or go. It's not always so cut and dried.
Well there you go. You have money. You have no idea what others go through having to budget and sacrifice to make ends meet.
I didn't say it was. But the complaining on this board with all the discontent and whining that Kim didn't win, you would think people had an exit strategy. If you've lived in this state all your life, you'll most likely be fine. People that "need" to leave, usually leave. I don't think that PA is your answer, things can get pretty expensive there too.
But seriously all the chicken littles with the Murphy win...please. Byrne, Kean, Corzine, part-time Whitman, Christie. Ugh I think we'll be alright, maybe better.
You are right 40% turnout is a tragedy, especially when you get 90% of people complaining and 60% didn't vote.
I'm sure budgeting and sacrificing are done by everyone in every state. Just because I can afford to live here doesn't make me wealthy nor does it mean I don't live on a budget. I know I can do better financially elsewhere, but that comes with a sacrifice too. I can live somewhere and drive 45min to the nearest store or mall. I can live in a area with less diversification and art or culture. Let's face it you want to be 45 min from NYC it's going to cost. I'm sure if you decide to live 45min from Detroit you can pay much less. My bet is you don't want to live 45 min or even 2 hours from Detroit.
NJ needs to fix it's education overlaps and perhaps consolidate it's 21 counties. Share the wealth and we all benefit.
not fooled - I apologize, my post wasn't clear. I was mentioning PA only as a "stop-gap" location to still be close to his parents. I certainly don't think PA is the answer to anything other than that. We are planning to be far away from here for retirement.
BTW - I didn't see anyone whining that Kim didn't get in. To be honest, I never really thought she could win. Christie was too much of an albatross for her and she really is more of a moderate than a conservative, which didn't bode well with many republicans. I think people are just worried about their wallets with Murphy is all. The majority of people who voted for Kim, got up and went to work this morning just like every other day. Just as they did when Obama was voted in twice. Some Hillary supporters claim they are still in therapy a year after the election. So who are the whiners?
Not fooled- is Michigan one of the two states that you have not been to? There are plenty of perfectly nice towns within 45 minutes to an hour of Detroit, and Detroit itself is going through a bit of a revival.
Anyhow, Jersey is no longer worth paying the premium for our location. That's why people are fleeing the state at a higher rate than almost anywhere in the country. Excessive taxation and over regulation...
Localchef "Some Hillary supporters claim they are still in therapy a year after the election. So who are the whiners?"
I think people could care less about Hillary but instead mourn the loss of respect that they once had for the office.
HappyBdayCalico If Murphy lost and we were Democrats, we would be rioting and burning cities down while screaming racism because his running mate is black, along with hosting "cry in's" and seeking therapy. Instead, we'll just complain on a board and then go back to WORK.
Have lived in a few states and all of them have their problems. PA gas is about 35 cents higher than NJ. That translates to higher heating too. Groceries, across the board are higher priced. If you don't live in bigger cities, there is little or no transportation. Cab service is unheard of. Police service is usually State Police, and unless you are in mortal danger, you won't see them for 24+ hours. Many states do not vote on education budgets, they just allocate what they deem reasonable and tax accordingly. Our 3 season home in PA has had a 4 fold increase in school taxes in 18 years. Given all that, and more, people move out of state because they long for 'America'. They want to speak English, they want to feel safe, and allow their children to walk to school, walk Main Street, ride bikes and park their bikes outside a store. Our way of life has been eroding for years and some, if not most, just think it's some kind of wonderful to let illegals into the country, state, town. People with little or no allegiance to this culture. Now our future seems to hold a sanctuary state. You should be aware how successful (NOT) that has turned out for California. Legalizing medical marijuana is another act I have doubts about. We are all worried about prescription drug abuse, yet we don't seem to think there won't be abuse of marijuana? Granted it is supposedly by a valid prescription, but that is how pain medications are supposed to be dispensed and there is lots of abuse. Again, some think that it is a good thing. I don't get some of the reasoning I come across. But I will stay in my corner of the state without rioting, or carrying signs and hope that my votes will make a difference in my lifetime.
USAfirst "I just wish people that said they wanted to leave the state would actually leave. "
"But the complaining on this board with all the discontent and whining that Kim didn't win, you would think people had an exit strategy. "
We know how you feel (Stop>Rewind one year>Press Play)
GC.. Sorry, I meant that marijuana would be the logical next step after the legal prescription ran out or others grabbing what doesn't belong to them, only to continue with their wants and needs. Seen way too many people die from addictions that started with smoking weed.
Well, two families I know in my town have listed their homes for sale in wake of the election results. One family is FL bound and the other VA bound. Granted these were people looking to get out eventually anyway, but they decided now would be best. The exodus begins.
VA? Might as well stay in NJ. Its a libral cesspool down there too. They are so progressive that they now have a trans in the legislature.
Here is a map that shows how each town voted in the election.
http://www.nj.com/data/2017/11/see_how_your_town_voted_in_the_2017_governor_elect.html
I saw that map yesterday. I was curious so I started playing a game. I was choosing a county then the town. Before I clicked the town to see the results I would guess at the voting outcome. It's fun. I got tripped up a few times but for the most part I was correct on the areas that voted red or blue. A few times there were less than 10 votes between the top two candidates.
Very interesting with the band of blue and the Ethnic groups that live in those areas
Darrin I think the white areas mean there was a very little margin of victory for a candidate.
For example there was only a 16 vote difference in Phillipsburg. That would be a white area on the map key I believe.
So basically all the urban chuckle heads that probably have illegal family members are the reason Murphy won. Lovely.
Basically the areas that the increased taxes will go to fund. Terrific. Don't worry though, he will lower the cost of attending college so everyone can go then they will move away because they can't afford to live in the State due to the high taxes. Makes total sense if we all had his money.
Well the visual map does show a clear divide, Democrat along the I95 corridor including an interior penetration on the metro Philly area.
Maybe we should turn NJ into 3 States LOL...
It's gotten to the point that over 3/4 of the state being red cannot overrule the tens of 1000s of votes coming from Camden, Jersey City, Newark, Irving, Trenton, and Orange (Just picking out the solid blue ones) I would be interested to see a voting by ethnicity breakdown
The Democratic party's coalition of college educated whites and minorities live in populated areas. It's the same in every state.
Seen way too many people die from addictions that started with smoking weed.
----
Just remember, nobody who starts with weed or who does harder drugs didn't start with alcohol and cigarettes. Should we outlaw those?
WomanUp,Son Alcohol and cigarettes nothing, I'd bet they started even younger with milk in their cereal as kids. It's all about drinking milk.
Stymie I wonder what platform Mr. Poopypants ran on?
http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/warren-county/index.ssf/2017/11/weird_election_day_write_in_vo.html#incart_river_home
HappyBdayCalico, Morris County is populated and went red. No, the problem is the urban areas with mostly hispanic and black voters. Hispanic people obviously don't want to see illegals deported and both hispanic and black voters who collect a government check always go democratic. It's a ridiculous cycle. You'd think after decades of going blue they'd realize their situations in those areas keep getting worse. The democratic party just preys on the fears of those people. Good example is that ridiculous video from the Virginia race that had some white guy in a pickup truck with a Gillespie sticker on his truck and confederate flag chasing minority kids around. If you can't see that these people prey on people's fears then your head is buried in the sand.
I never understood the people living in the dangerous and dirty projects (like the one's in Phillipsburg, Camden, Newark, etc...), living on welfare and food stamps, who constantly complain about how their life sucks and then they keep voting for the same Democrats that want them to stay right where they are and perpetuate the welfare/project living mentality to their children and grandchildren so they always have a fresh voter pool of poor people living on the system.
You would think at SOME POINT, SOMEONE would say "enough of this horrible existence" and vote for someone who wants them to get the hell off of everything and get out of there and become a contributing, proud member of society.
I can't understand how they can't see that the Democrats WANT them to stay like that.
Heidi, what is the alternative? Well, one alternative is that you cut a lot of the programs and then we have homeless all over the place like a 3rd world nation. You will need to build walls around your property and be armed.
Both extremes are wrong. So, from a practical standpoint those on welfare need incentives to get off welfare. Those that have kids they cannot afford should not be having kids -- called family planning. I am sorry, but anybody on welfare should be kicked off if they have more kids or at least not be given any more assistance; but then you penalize the "innocent" child (innocent by birth but not by DNA).
No easy answers but doing nothing is wrong. In Michigan they kick people off welfare and force them to work after x years. They provide daycare and transportation so there are no excuses as to why they can't work.
From a societal perspective full-employment is not a goal of capitalist economies as it drives up wages; a certain amount of unemployment keeps the pool of sidelined workers available so wages stay in check. Funny huh? In a society made up of cooperatives this is not a problem and wages from the lowest to highest are kept in check. IMHO, we need to go the cooperative route to get people more engaged in employment, but those in control would not want this as it would kill their profits...
Metsman, Morris county is the 10th most populated county in New Jersey, really not indicative of the trend but the further east and more populous in the county you go, the better Murphy did. The state's most populated county is Bergen and it voted in huge numbers for Murphy as did the rich suburbs in western Essex. I know it fits your narrative to blame the outcome on urban minorities but well educated, affluent whites in inner ring suburbs outside New York and Philly are overwhelmingly Democratic.
oooohhh....... so THAT'S what we're dealing with, huh? Rich, smart, white people who KNOW BETTER .... gee, sounds alot like.... the DC establishment to me. Arrogance abounds.
Funny, the democrats/liberals spend an awful lot of time attacking and blaming the rich white people for alot of society's ills and evils.... seems to me that makes those rich white people no so "smart" if they're voting democrat, hmmm?
Metsman the results of the 25th Legislative District says it all. Morris County District, very red district, Democrats spent zilch on the race and look at these results, so Morris County, believe it or not is not as GOP red as expected:
State Senate:
Bucco, Anthony R. (i) GOP 30,560 52%
Bhimani, Lisa Dem 27,975 48%
State Assembly:
Carroll, Michael (i) GOP 30,226 26%
Bucco, Anthony M. (i)GOP 30,178 26%
Moran, Thomas Dem 27,692 24%
Corcoran, Richard Dem 27,236 24%
This district includes Randolph, Roxbury and Long Valley, among others and is Morris County and still, this district almost turned blue, as this was a close race for this district.
Also Somerset County is trending Democratic. 16th Legislative District says it all, as the Republican incumbent Kip Bateman only won by razor-thin margin:
Bateman, Christopher (i) GOP 32,091 51%
Poppe, Laurie Dem 31,408 49%
I can also see why Jack Ciaterrelli decided to run for Governor to Kimmy G and lose (which, if you lose to her, you are a bad candidate). His legislative district that he was an assemblyman from was the 16th District, which also had a Democratic Assemblyman as the other Assemblyman, and both Democrats won that race Tuesday against a former Republican Assemblywoman Donna Simon and a Republican Somerset County Freeholder Caliguire:
Zwicker, Andrew (i) Dem 33,972 27%
Freiman, Roy Dem 32,470 26%
Simon, Donna GOP 29,553 24%
Caliguire, Mark GOP 28,924 23%
So the Democrats almost took the Morris County 25th District and made it real close, so in two years expect Democrats to target that district as both the Bucco boys and Carroll do nothing in the legislature (older Bucco was accused of sexual harassment years ago) and Somerset County, once a very red county in our blue state is going from red, to purple and could eventually turn blue. The legacy of Christie makes the GOP even less competitive in the state. The Assembly Republican Leader, Jon Bramnick, barely won his reelection in his Somerset County district as well.
Democrats have 25 seats to the GOP's 15 seats in the Senate come January and the Democrats have 53 to the GOP's 27 seats in the Assembly. Speaks volumes to the state's blue demographics and the Christie legacy that Kimmy G. only got 42% of the vote against a candidate no one knew anything about, just like her, except she had 8 years as the second in command of the state.
"oooohhh....... so THAT'S what we're dealing with, huh? Rich, smart, white people who KNOW BETTER .... gee, sounds alot like.... the DC establishment to me. Arrogance abounds.
The pitfalls of the populism you seem to condone become more apparent every day.
"Funny, the democrats/liberals spend an awful lot of time attacking and blaming the rich white people for alot of society's ills and evils.... seems to me that makes those rich white people no so "smart" if they're voting democrat, hmmm?'"
The same can be said of conservatives blaming minorities and your focus on wealth reveals that you have a bit of class resentment going on there yourself. Perhaps the Democrats are too centrist for you. Should the workers of the world unite?
Why not make welfare like unemployment.....a temporary fix rather then a permanent one?
"your focus on wealth"
Time for reading comprehension 101.... *I'm* not focused on wealth, I was quoting *YOU* ("affluent")... nice try, tho...
"Rich, smart, white people who KNOW BETTER .... gee, sounds alot like.... the DC establishment to me. Arrogance abounds.
Funny, the democrats/liberals spend an awful lot of time attacking and blaming the rich white people for alot of society's ills and evils.... seems to me that makes those rich white people"
You used "rich" three times in one comment. It's telling of your limited vocabulary, a chip on your shoulder, or most likely, both.
I was merely pointing out facts about voting trends. You made it about wealth and populism.
I lived in the West Essex area a long time ago. Still have friends living there. Some Democrat and some Republican.
Nope, sorry HBC, YOU are the one who included "affluent" in your original comment... nice 2nd try at deflection, tho...
If everyone - and I mean everyone - had to pay some amount of taxes, then the “socially disadvantaged” would complain about paying too much, just like the rest of us. Our welfare and SSI systems are no longer safety nets. They have become a way of life for far too many people. Worse yet, that way of living is being passed from generation to generation - and they see nothing wrong with that. Both systems need a fundamental change.
"Nope, sorry HBC, YOU are the one who included "affluent" in your original comment... nice 2nd try at deflection, tho..."
My use of affluent was a demographic measure. There was nothing loaded in the comment except for my using it to point out the fact that some people like to just blame minorities when it's upscale whites that contribute to the party's dominance in the state. You then strangely got all angry at the establishment exposed your negative feelings about the wealthy in your comment. A nice example of projection THOUGH...
Perhaps some of you haven't read the rules and regs re welfare recently - so I would suggest this publication as a start: https://www.sapling.com/6509837/requirements-welfare-assistance-new-jersey
I'm also puzzled as to how you think social security is a safety net - As a senior who contributed my entire working life - including as a barely paid camp counselor - I could not live on my social security benefit............but it helps ............Please do some research before coming up with broad ( and often incorrect) generalizations.
HappyBdayCalico what are you talking about... All the rich people are in Morris County. Places like Mendham and Chester, Kim won handily. That's where your rich white folks live. The blue towns have much heavier minority populations.
Metsman, outside of your Morris county bubble, there are 20 other counties and towns like Cherry Hill, Evesham, Moorestown, Collingswood, Summit, Millburn, South Orange, Ridgewood, Livingston, Closter, Tenafly.
http://www.nj.com/data/2017/11/see_how_your_town_voted_in_the_2017_governor_elect.html
Take a look at all the blue outside New York and Philadelphia. Lots of liberal, upscale white people live there.
IDK where you think all the rich people live, but Hunterdon, Morris, and Somerset counties are in the top 10 of most expensive places to live in the country. They all went to Kim.
Interesting 4catmom, how the article you posted about welfare is not about welfare - it's about Work First New Jersey, which is a PROGRAM WITHIN the welfare system. I personally know many people who have been on section 8, collecting food stamps and getting welfare checks for 20 years. Also, another point that the article doesn't touch on, is that on the WFNJ program you can stay on for 5 years, and then another 24 (so seven years total) and then you are removed -- but THEN you can REAPPLY and start your next 7 year phase. I have a few tenants who have gone through the revolving door every 7 years to re-qualify; over and over and over...
I don't call that "temporary assistance" do you???
And regarding Social security, maybe I missed something, but I don't see where anyone on here was suggesting throwing old people off social security. If someone did, and I missed it, please point that post out to me.
Metsman, let's try this again.... Morris, Hunterdon and Somerset went to Kimmy G. but she got CREAMED! Look at what I analyzed in the legislative races from last week. The local 25th district which is all Morris County almost went blue and the 16th District, which is all Somerset is almost all blue. Would not be surprised if these two districts eventually got Democratic. Get it straight.
Metsman the results of the 25th Legislative District says it all. Morris County District, very red district, Democrats spent zilch on the race and look at these results, so Morris County, believe it or not is not as GOP red as expected:
State Senate:
Bucco, Anthony R. (i) GOP 30,560 52%
Bhimani, Lisa Dem 27,975 48%
State Assembly:
Carroll, Michael (i) GOP 30,226 26%
Bucco, Anthony M. (i)GOP 30,178 26%
Moran, Thomas Dem 27,692 24%
Corcoran, Richard Dem 27,236 24%
This district includes Randolph, Roxbury and Long Valley, among others and is Morris County and still, this district almost turned blue, as this was a close race for this district.
Also Somerset County is trending Democratic. 16th Legislative District says it all, as the Republican incumbent Kip Bateman only won by razor-thin margin:
Bateman, Christopher (i) GOP 32,091 51%
Poppe, Laurie Dem 31,408 49%
I can also see why Jack Ciaterrelli decided to run for Governor to Kimmy G and lose (which, if you lose to her, you are a bad candidate). His legislative district that he was an assemblyman from was the 16th District, which also had a Democratic Assemblyman as the other Assemblyman, and both Democrats won that race Tuesday against a former Republican Assemblywoman Donna Simon and a Republican Somerset County Freeholder Caliguire:
Zwicker, Andrew (i) Dem 33,972 27%
Freiman, Roy Dem 32,470 26%
Simon, Donna GOP 29,553 24%
Caliguire, Mark GOP 28,924 23%
So the Democrats almost took the Morris County 25th District and made it real close, so in two years expect Democrats to target that district as both the Bucco boys and Carroll do nothing in the legislature (older Bucco was accused of sexual harassment years ago) and Somerset County, once a very red county in our blue state is going from red, to purple and could eventually turn blue. The legacy of Christie makes the GOP even less competitive in the state. The Assembly Republican Leader, Jon Bramnick, barely won his reelection in his Somerset County district as well.
Democrats have 25 seats to the GOP's 15 seats in the Senate come January and the Democrats have 53 to the GOP's 27 seats in the Assembly. Speaks volumes to the state's blue demographics and the Christie legacy that Kimmy G. only got 42% of the vote against a candidate no one knew anything about, just like her, except she had 8 years as the second in command of the state.
The Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996 made welfare temporary. Matter of fact, the major program is called Temporary Assistance for Needy Families. I think someone is trying to communicate.....
I think you can get 2 years of benefits within five years and a total of five years over a lifetime. Tax and spend Democrats elected Bill Clinton to end the Welfare lifetime entitlement after Reagan and Bush totally failed. Perhaps that's why you can't see it being focused on anything but Clinton. Of course, that's Moore than 14 years ago and focus tends to change over time on these values.
Illegal aliens can receive welfare throughout their lifetimes if they scam the system to begin with. They use welfare to buy illegal guns threatening us by sitting in movie theaters. That's why they voted Democratic to make welfare temporary.
New Jersey welfare payments are very far below the Federal Poverty Level so instead of starving, welfariche illegal aliens buy guns, large screen TVs, and Cadillacs. Most NJ welfare is paid out to blue districts where the program is known as Cookies for Crackers. Most think the cookies will last forever thanks to snowflakes in Trenton.
Well said iJay,
Also, there was a time when "small business" was more like a sole proprietor than an LLC.
Everyone today wants to be a "manager" and not do the work themselves, one of the reasons many complain about possible minimum wage hikes.
There were shoe repair people- they had a skill and did the work themselves.
A deli -owner worked at his own deli by himself.
Appliance repair- man owned a shop and a truck, did his own work. Etc.
Now small businesses need to constantly hire to "grow", and they don't want their own kids/spouses doing the work-they get a spouse to get a job with health insurance and have their kids go to college so they don't have to do this type of work.
Also, so much talk about the "trades." Bring back the trades, go to trade school vs college- what happens when your kid falls off a roof, or breaks their back lifting a furnace out of a basement? Also, do we suggest this to both our boys and girls? What trades should we suggest for our young girls?
"From a societal perspective full-employment is not a goal of capitalist economies as it drives up wages; a certain amount of unemployment keeps the pool of sidelined workers available so wages stay in check. Funny huh? In a society made up of cooperatives this is not a problem and wages from the lowest to highest are kept in check. IMHO, we need to go the cooperative route to get people more engaged in employment, but those in control would not want this as it would kill their profits..."
Yes, those counties are expensive but compared to inner ring suburbs or pricey urban areas in Hudson county, they have such a small population that they barely register. I think you are ignoring the urban/rural political divide. The more dense the population gets, the more diverse, expensive, and liberal it becomes. Look up real estate listings and property tax bills in the towns I mentioned.
"They use welfare to buy illegal guns threatening us by sitting in movie theaters."
Comment of the day.
Look at Newark, Murphy 32,037 to Kim 1,584. Jersey City 33,568 to 4,617. Paterson 16,425 to 1,389. East Orange 10,598 to 211. Trenton 9,027 to 868. All heavy minority areas which account for 1/3 of Murphy's 279,614 vote win. That's just 5 cities. So don't tell me the rich are the reason Murphy won. The rich and upper middle class voted for Kim.
So, Metsman, what you're saying (without even realizing it, probably) is that even if NO ONE from Newark, Paterson, Jersey City, East Orange or Trenton voted for Murphy... he STILL would have kicked Guadagno's ass.
SD... you reduced scope to just the cash benefit which nobody was talking about.
https://www.mdrc.org/sites/default/files/full_607.pdf
See page 12 - its a 60 month time limit in NJ
"For families meeting established criteria, states may decide not to count a month of assistance toward the state time limit. This is sometimes referred to as “stopping the clock.” And once families have reached the time limit, states may choose to extend benefits for those meeting other criteria." - so the state can continue it.
that being said - for TANF (Work First NJ) you have to be beyond dirt poor and prove it - no more than $2000
http://essexcountynj.org/welfare_docs/How%20To%20Apply%20For%20-%20Green%20Paper%20-%20Work%20First%20New%20Jersey%20Temporary%20Assistance%20For%20Needy%20Families.pdf
there are numerous other programs folks may be entitled to however
http://essexcountynj.org/welfare/
the SS OIG states they have rampant abuses and no way to investigate it
https://www.fedsmith.com/2014/09/14/ssdi-a-program-subject-to-abuse/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/04/08/how-americans-game-the-200-billion-a-year-disability-industrial-complex/
No what I'm saying is if you took cities with those demographics across the state out, it would be a lot closer. The people collecting government checks mostly live in those areas. They always go democratic.
Skippy, I think you’re first study linked is 20 years old; so old they erased the dates.
NJ complies with federeal timelines. TANF is the Clinton welfare program replacing welfare.
I can’t read on, too many errors of fact.
Study commissioned but the department of human services 2014 - first page.
Those are the federal guidelines broken out by state
"The rich and upper middle class voted for Kim."
Perhaps they did in rural areas but in more populated areas, college educated whites are liberal. You do realize that this is a blue state, right? Lots of minorities and lots of college educated liberal whites. These are classic Democratic voters. Rural and exurban voters across the education and income spectrum vote Republican but there's just not enough of them to win.
Look at towns like Millburn, Livingston, South Orange, West Orange, and Montclair in western Essex county, Cherry Hill in Camden county, or any number of towns in Bergen county. Murphy ran up huge numbers there and I highly doubt there are many people taking government handouts in these towns.
The point is that Murphy's win is not as simplistic as you're making is seem. You probably should be angry with urbanites no matter their race or economic situation.
@resident08 and the group....
your post above was incredible...
Maybe more honest good people with common sense need to enter politics... but as you may not have known... "Common Sense is Not So Common" and that is why I believe we are in the mess we are in...
LibertyThinker @resident08 : Great post! This is a BLUE state.
There are some smaller RED areas - but not nearly enough to purple the Blue.
Now that I come to think of it - This is what the proposed Federal Tax revision is pushing for: 80% of reductions go RED and 20% BLUE. Wait a minute! That's really bad math.
"A nice example of projection THOUGH..."
HA! That certainly is your middle name in our exchange!
I have something against rich people? You have no idea how much money my household makes, I can assure you, I have nothing against affluent/rich people, LOL.
The DC establishment, yes... but that is a different story. I was merely pointing out that if, like you say, "affluent suburbs" elected Murphy, how ironic that would be, since they are the ones constantly demonized by the left, and the ones who will suffer the most with Murphy's tax increases.
justintime HA! That certainly is your middle name in our exchange!
Not really sure where you're going with that one since I didn't say anything about the rich except about their voting trends.
"Your focus on wealth reveals that you have a bit of class resentment going on there yourself. Perhaps the Democrats are too centrist for you. Should the workers of the world unite?"
Looks like you took the bait.
"oooohhh....... so THAT'S what we're dealing with, huh? Rich, smart, white people who KNOW BETTER .... gee, sounds alot like.... the DC establishment to me. Arrogance abounds.
Funny, the democrats/liberals spend an awful lot of time attacking and blaming the rich white people for alot of society's ills and evils.... seems to me that makes those rich white people no so "smart" if they're voting democrat, hmmm?"
I didn't realize that I was supposed to infer that you were talking about the New Jersey gubernatorial election when you were railing against the DC establishment but you tried to correct that with:
"The DC establishment, yes... but that is a different story. I was merely pointing out that if, like you say, "affluent suburbs" elected Murphy, how ironic that would be, since they are the ones constantly demonized by the left, and the ones who will suffer the most with Murphy's tax increases."
That's quite a leap for any reader.
Then, when I bait you with the idea that your writing sounds like you have Marxist tendencies, you go on about how you don't mind the rich, even though you don't like it when they're part of the establishment and they are "arrogant" and they "know better". Sounds like the right is demonizing them as well.
Since you like to be condescending with your "reading comprehension 101" comment, I will rebut with "Writing for Clarity 101" and "Consistency 101".
HBC,
"projection" is your middle name, in case you missed it... and you are Level: EXPERT.
If you'll read my posts, you'll see that nowhere did I even discuss who elected Murphy: that's YOUR war... Murphy won because this is the People's Republik of New Jersey, and Christie had one of the worst approval rating ever. It's not rocket science.
I was merely pointing out (as I'll do again now- I'll type slower this time) that if the "affluent suburbs" helped elect Murphy... as YOU implied... that it would be quite ironic, since the democrats HATE rich people and want to tax them as much as possible... unless they are ESTABLISHMENT rich people, of course.
But you'll learn. Or you won't. Makes no difference to me.
And for the record: I have a problem with ALL of the establishment: D or R, all races, all income levels. The establishment is, has been, and will always be, the PROBLEM. Why people like you never seem to figure that out....
https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/hackettstowntownnewjersey/PST045216
Add towns as needed for comparison.
A quick glance tells me that the race/education/population density narrative isn't completely true. Quite typical when these discussions devolve based on duopoly views...
Some see irony in educated, affluent Americans voting Democratic resulting in increase taxation on the rich. Educated, affluent Democrats see something else: fairness.
Instead, you voted for a guy who moved his rich family and friends into Washington to play King and cabal by giving themselves the biggest tax break in history and giving you more dead soldiers in even stranger places, , more US terrorist attacks and shootings, more Obamacare subscribers than ever, higher taxes for the middle class, and Russians, Russians. Russians.
How some see duopoly in this abortion of government is outstanding.
Ironic, ain’t it?
Look if educated people voted for Murphy, then they didn’t use any sense of reason. Why would anyone want a sanctuary state and $15 per hour minimum wage? Wouldn’t the smarter move be to vote the status quo until a better candidate comes around in 4 years? All the people that voted for this guy are going to be complaining soon enough.
And SD, are you kidding me with the shootings? Obama had plenty of them during his watch. The Florida night club shooting happened on his watch. The destruction in Baltimore and Ferguson happened on his watch. The assassination of the Dallas cops happened on his watch. Benghazi happened on his watch. You seem to forget half a dozen troops died looking for the traitor Bergdahl. Then Obama swaps terrorists to get him back and now he may get $300K in backpay?! You have a selective memory sir. At least the military and police know Trump has their backs.
"I was merely pointing out (as I'll do again now- I'll type slower this time) that if the "affluent suburbs" helped elect Murphy... as YOU implied... that it would be quite ironic, since the democrats HATE rich people and want to tax them as much as possible..."
You don't need to type slower, just write with clarity in mind. Thank you for the effort. Here's a resource you might find helpful in the future:
https://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/600/01/
For the record, I'll include your original comment:
"oooohhh....... so THAT'S what we're dealing with, huh? Rich, smart, white people who KNOW BETTER .... gee, sounds alot like.... the DC establishment to me. Arrogance abounds.
Funny, the democrats/liberals spend an awful lot of time attacking and blaming the rich white people for alot of society's ills and evils.... seems to me that makes those rich white people no so "smart" if they're voting democrat, hmmm?"
How anybody was supposed to get taxation out of that is beyond me and this is the comment that started they whole conversation. Trying being more specific next time and readers will understand what you're trying to say. See, now you're learning.
Nonetheless, as Strangerdanger correctly implied, not everybody is motivated by money.
@SD, exactly how is a progressive tax fair to begin with? Everyone needs to start paying. Move to a consumption based tax system - then you liberals will get what you want. At least at that point, people are making a decision to spend their own money, and suffer the tax consequences.
am I the only one that is assuming "HappyBdayCalico" aka "hbdaycalico" is really "happiestgirl" ?
Mets: you are comparing 8 years with less than one. One in which we have the yugest shooting ever and benghazi redux in spades. How long was that guys body out there? How long to tell America it happened? What did he call the mother, friend, and war widow?
Maybe you think its better.....but I think its impeachable.
"am I the only one that is assuming "HappyBdayCalico" aka "hbdaycalico" is really "happiestgirl" ?"
happiestgirl never has, and never would, provide an email address when posting. That would allow someone to PM her.
I assume this screen name is for some reason directed at me, since I do the birthday threads. Who knows.....
"@SD, exactly how is a progressive tax fair to begin with?" WAS: good question although I think you have your own answer before you posed it. You think the poor are advantaged somehow by not paying income taxes and the rich are disadvantaged because their rate is progressive. Your fairness focus is on payments; mine is on disposable income ---- i.e. the other side of the equation.
It depends whether you find consistency of rate or adequate disposable income to be the fairer focus. While a flat tax provides a tax rate consistency, it burdens the poor by restricting disposable income while advantaging the rich where disposable income is just not even an issue. A progressive rate attempts to provide a more fair level of disposable income for all or at least some disposable income for the poor.
Many conservatives live with the mantra that trickle down investment from the rich will save the economy from the supply-side, when, in fact, the rich just bank a lot of the extra pelf, often off shore like most of Trump's cronies and administration. Or they invest in cost cutting to improve their own profits, not yours. Increasing disposable income for the middle and lower brackets on the other hand tends to churn the economy from the bottom up since the poor tend to spend most of any disposable income they get on goods and services which fires up the economy through demand. Demand forces the rich to dance to the beat of the street as consumerism creates future profits.
"Everyone needs to start paying." Of course you know that everyone pays tax already. On a percent of income basis, the poor outspend the rich in taxes by far already, even in our progressive system. You probably meant "income tax," and why would you require a person to spend their last disposable dollar for income tax? Even your lord in office does not do that.
"Move to a consumption based tax system - then you liberals will get what you want." Hey, you're the guys who voted for the orange-haired deficit King. I have no issue with a consumption component, but if you completely replace income tax with consumption tax, for the poor and middle, you are essentially making a flat tax that burdens those who already have little to no disposable income. IMO, this makes a tax system that relies solely on consumption very unfair to the poor while advantaging the rich who have great amounts of disposable income they can easily save from consumption purposes. You have a fallacy here believing that a consumption system will be decision-based consequences. The poor have less voluntary decisions here than you or I; they have to spend everything they have just to survive. We don't. We have choice. And now you want to have them choose which survival item to do without to save some tax sheckles? Nope, that does not sound fair to me.
Oooops, sorry. WAS, try this link for backgrounder: https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/042815/progressive-tax-more-fair-flat-tax.asp
Or try this: "Thus, the flat tax is just a tax cut for the rich dressed up as a tax cut for the other classes."
http://factmyth.com/factoids/a-progressive-tax-is-more-fair-than-a-flat-tax/
SD you're delusional. It's just a continuation of things that have already been going on for years. There's a lot of hate in the world and it just continues to fester.
And since you bring up the Niger incident, I find it curious that one widow praised Trumps phone call, and then the one the wacky congresswoman with the hat listened to was supposedly inappropriate. Yea I smell BS there.
Metsman is now drinking the Trump Koolaid after Kimmy G. got crushed last Tuesday and making all of the right-wing Hannity talking points.
Trump is a one-term President and will get creamed in 2020 and will be lucky not to face a GOP primary to even be renominated. The Republican Party should have nominated a more reasonable candidate like John Kasich, who is more moderate or even Marco Rubio as they would have worked better with Congress and the Democrats to get things done. I thought George W. Bush was a goofball as President, but Trump makes him look like a Rhodes Scholar.
Where is this wall Trump promised? The Attorney General investigation into Hillary that was promised? Nothing done except executive orders that will not hold up in court.
Joe Biden may run in 2020, and I do not care how old Biden is, as Trump is just as old and even a cadaver would beat Trump. He is too divisive and has set the Republican Party back. I love how he campaigned for Ed Gillipesie in Virginia (notice no one campaigned for Kimmy G.?) and then blamed him for not supporting him enough to win the Virginia election! It was due to Trump and Virginia turning to a blue state that he lost! Where is Trump on the Roy Moore controversy, especially since he supported his primary opponent, Luther Strange? The GOP should disavow Trump and Metsman, do you disavow Moore like you do the wacky Florida Congresswoman you mention, as he is just as bad as her and does not belong in the U.S. Senate with his past, even if these allegations are not true, which I do not believe is the case.
@SD, I fully understand the economics of a progressive tax system. Thanks for the refresher though. My question was - how is it fair? You have no problem taxing high earners because they have more disposable income. I have a huge problem with that premise. On the flip side - I say low earners need to stop having kids they can’t afford, go back to school to get a degree / learn a trade to better themselves. I believe people, for the must part, create their own situations. Bad choices early in life can impact your entire existence here on earth. Our system does not force people to change - people are all too happy to stay on the gov’t (actually mine and yours) dime.
Commenting is no longer available.