President Trump - Round 3
GC 
kepaHe is doing a great job so far!!! Still waiting for celebrities and left wing nuts to leave the country.
Mr. Tone Change is what we are getting but it may not all be good in the long run. I can tell you already that highly educated foreigners are already contemplating NOT coming to the USA for a Masters/Doctorate over the uncertainty to be able not stay and work afterwards. We can't loose the educated, we need to remain the world innovation leader...
iJay 
CraftBeerBob "He is doing everything he said he was going to do." --- CFB
Actually he has accomplished pretty much nothing ---- for several reasons including world-wide opposition.
I think ultimately he will implode from all this. He is a complete narcissist and will eventually break down from all the negativity he is encountering from people everywhere around the world.
I think he will end up in a mental institution.
Happymom He's the same outspoken, rash individual that he was going into the election. The sad part of it all is we all look to our president to be a highly educated and well spoken individual which he is not. Glad our government fought dictatorship from the start and that people are fighting back against his trynt like ways. One can only hope that he doesn't put us in a serious war with his ridiculous tweets and childish actions.
Katie 
The Man If you want to be less ignorant, REQUIRED READING:
excerpt:
"Hitler was a real life murdering sociopath. He wasn’t just a charismatic speaker who incrementally fell into bad behavior. He wasn’t just a racist corrupted by unfettered power. In other words, you or I probably couldn’t end up being Hitler. A garden variety KKK leader probably couldn’t end up being Hitler either …or a community organizer …or a New York real-estate tycoon. It’s not that easy or simple.
NONE of our American presidents have ever been Hitler. But the people of Germany certainly thought FDR was a murdering dictator when B-17s started dropping bombs on them. This is why you have to KNOW what you believe and why you believe it. Good guys and bad guys are often in the eyes of the beholder. And they often look similar in the fog of conflict. I would imagine Japanese Americans in internment camps wondered if their president was Hitler-like. Nope. Horrible act …but not close to Hitler."
https://regiehammblog.wordpress.com/2017/02/01/this-hitler-nonsense/
JeffersonRepub Its only been a couple of weeks, a few unconstitutional acts, a few demonizations, a ban or two, a number of people stranded, lost health insurance coverage, one dead soldier, a few innocents, and a lot of simple mistakes. Its early yet.
Strangerdanger Well, on a positive note it seems like the Legislature and Judiciary are finally growing a spine and doing what they are supposed to do. The balance of power between the three branches of government is the greatest deterrent to suppress the fear of a "Hitler" or dictator taking control, and personally I'm quite happy to see a balance being restored.
If the next four years are anything like the last four weeks then it looks like we'll finally have a fully functioning government again - eventually. Restraint isn't evil, it's necessary to prevent the concerns many have about the next "Hitler"
justintime I'm not worried about Hitler, he is the past. I am worried about Putin, he is the current. And he has just re-started the Ukrainian aggression within weeks of Trump taking office. Does Trump really believe he can befriend Vlad and make China the devil? All I know is if we have to go to war, I would have really liked to have Australia with us......
I think it's time.
It's time to investigate Putin's ties to Trump and Trump ties to Putin. It's time and fair for Americans to know there is nothing there. It's time for Trump to prove he is not conflicted because of business deals, money, or another Trump tape. It's time for Trump to show us he has no financial ties to Putin like those that might turn up in his previously filed taxes.
I think it's time to clear the Russian air, once and for all time.
Wasn't he just responsible for one of our soldier's death because he didn't have good intel and wasn't even in the room to see the result of his actions?
Didn't he just go on vacation after 2 weeks on the job?
Hasn't his wife already cost the taxpayers $14M for staying in NYC? The majority of that cost coming from the rental of a floor of Trump Tower? So we are basically paying him for his own security?
I'm confused about what's been great about his presidency so far.
Hackettstowner Here's one paragraph from an interesting opinion piece by Charles J. Sykes, former conservative radio talk host:
"Mr. Trump understands that attacking the media is the reddest of meat for his base, which has been conditioned to reject reporting from news sites outside of the conservative media ecosystem.
For years, as a conservative radio talk show host, I played a role in that conditioning by hammering the mainstream media for its bias and double standards. But the price turned out to be far higher than I imagined. The cumulative effect of the attacks was to de-legitimize those outlets and essentially destroy much of the right’s immunity to false information. We thought we were creating a savvier, more skeptical audience. Instead, we opened the door for President Trump, who found an audience that could be easily misled."
Here is the entire piece: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/04/opinion/sunday/why-nobody-cares-the-president-is-lying.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&version=Moth-Visible&moduleDetail=inside-nyt-region-1&module=inside-nyt-region®ion=inside-nyt-region&WT.nav=inside-nyt-region&_r=0
jd2 
iRun 
4catmom Doesn't anyone realize Bannon is the REAL president? DJT is just his (not very well thought out) puppet.
hhz 
He's mentally ill. He's proving it on a daily basis. His twitter account is that of a madman. You're either a winner and can do no wrong, or a loser and everything you do, even agree with him is wrong. There's no middle ground. His fragile mental state doesn't allow for anything else.
For the Star Wars fans - "Only a sith deals in absolutes". Trump is a Sith.
He's quickly turning this country into a fascist nation, and he's going to screw over every last one of you.
He literally said he will gut Dodd Frank because his friends can't get loans. His billionaire friends.
His bans are unconstitutional. The courts are proving this.
He fired the AG because she didn't agree with him. He calls a judge a "so called" judge. I could go on and on, but the attitude is clear - I will do whatever I want and destroy those who stand in my way.
He's quickly trying to discredit the media as a whole - with the exception of Fox news.
He does not care about you. He does not know you exist. He does not care if you live or die so long as he and his friends are billionaires.
See the attached image from the Holocaust Museum.
Let's also note: We had the biggest protest in the country's history. More than 1% of the population (THE entire population, not the over 18, not the registered to vote population, not the actually voting), all out at once, protesting nothing else than his ascent to power - not something in particular, a war, an act, an appointment. Him and his cabinet. This doesn't count people are are unable to protest for any reasons, whether they could not get to one (most were in big cities), could not afford to go, had other commitments like a job.
He does not have the will of the people. He lost the popular vote by a huge margin. He's already crossed a line into unconstitutional and working on approaching impeachable grounds. He won't last 4 years. He'll be lucky to make it until 2018. We just all have to survive that long first.
alpha1beta "Let's also note: We had the biggest protest in the country's history. More than 1% of the population (THE entire population, not the over 18, not the registered to vote population, not the actually voting), "
Source please.
"He does not have the will of the people."
That's your opinion, of course. My opinion, based on what I have seen/heard/read is the opposite. That not only does he have the will of the people that voted for him, but many that voted for him (albeit reluctantly) are willing to give him the chance to see if he can improve things. Only a few spoiled brats- the squeaky wheels getting all the grease (press coverage)- don't want to. Despite him winning the election, fair and square.
"He lost the popular vote by a huge margin. "
Incorrect. Lost, yes. Huge margin, no. 2.2% of the popular vote. Hardly "huge". But it's irrelevant since we are a constitutional REPUBLIC with an electoral college.
"He's already crossed a line into unconstitutional "
What president hasn't? And, they way it works is, at least for the last 8 years according to liberals/democrats, is unless SCOTUS says it's unconstitutional, it's not.
"and working on approaching impeachable grounds. He won't last 4 years. He'll be lucky to make it until 2018. We just all have to survive that long first."
Good luck with that, living in your own reality. You may needs meds to get through these next 4 (at least) years.
That sign, that alphabeta posted, describes Trump to a tee! The media coverage, especially. Every good company, knows the power of branding. His "phs"...Paris Hilton syndrome, worked perfectly. Bad publicity is better than no publicity, and being in the entertainment business, he knows this to be true. That's how he managed to spend little of his own money, and got several billions dollars of free advertising. He's a celebrity and a(not very good) business man. If the American people want to see his taxes, he should show them. There must be a corrupt reason, why he won't. Showing their taxes, has been traditionally done, by every other president. He thinks we are all his employees, rather than the opposite. We are in no position to ask our "new boss", for anything. Now we are all employees of USA, incorporated. Trump is our CEO. A mean, racist, sexist, trailer trash, sociopath, who's gone bankrupt more times, than most Americans. Never took an oath of public service. Not even a mayor or councilman. Now, he's our President! This could be "end of days". He just reeks of corruption. This is Hitler, all over again. Still waiting for an executive order, to make America great "again". Now, looks like Trump's going in the opposite direction. He should've been more vetted, prior to being elected, especially psychologically vetted. His language, behavior and integrity, speaks for itself.
sparksjbc1964 Just for JR, who blithely continues to rearrange deck chairs on the Titanic.
“We can ignore reality, but we cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.”
Ayn Rand
yankeefan The new rage in Europe and why when can never be EuroSocialist. They can only be number 2.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CNehPJrZzY
And from some place that may be a fake country........
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeQeqG-D3BM
Source: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/514166/
I saw the raw data in a Google spreadsheet before I saw that article. As for 1%, all you have to do is find the current US population and do some simple math.
YF,
Exactly. You guys need to stop ignoring the reality that Trump IS the duly-elected President. He won fair and square. Now stop sucking on your pacifiers, stomping your feet, throwing tantrums, and get over it.
The only way to Make America Great Again is for Trump to resign, and taken Pence and his cabinet with him.
aloha1beta, per your link the tally includes global rally's not just the us. The opening line in the link is "How many people attended the various Women’s Marches around the globe this weekend?"
If you are assuming that those outside of the US impacted the election shouldn't you use global population for your calculations?
“We can ignore reality, but we cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.”
Funny yankeefan, I've been saying that all along and now you agree? ;-)
Regarding Trumps taxes, is the implication that the IRS would have allowed illegal behavior to transpire without consequence? Or is asking for the tax returns a bit more sinister: a way to imply misdeeds when none were found by the IRS?
To some of you ... I'll admit, I'm not the author ...
You voted for Trump because Clinton was going to be in Wall Street's pocket. Trump wants to repeal Dodd-Frank and eliminate the Fiduciary Rule, letting Wall Street return to its pre-2008 ways.
You voted for Trump because of Clinton's emails. The Trump administration is running its own private email server.
You voted for Trump because you thought the Clinton Foundation was "pay for play." Trump has refused to wall off his businesses from his administration, and personally profits from payments from foreign governments.
You voted for Trump because of Clinton's role in Benghazi. Trump ordered the Yemen raid without adequate intel, and tweeted about "FAKE NEWS" while Americans died as a result of his carelessness.
You voted for Trump because Clinton didn't care about "the little guy." Trump's cabinet is full of billionaires, and he took away your health insurance so he could give them a multi-million-dollar tax break.
You voted for Trump because he was going to build a wall and Mexico was going to pay for it. American consumers will pay for the wall via import tariffs.
You voted for Trump because Clinton was going to get us into a war. Trump has provoked our enemies, alienated our allies, and given ISIS a decade's worth of recruiting material.
You voted for Trump because Clinton didn't have the stamina to do the job. Trump hung up on the Australian Prime Minister during a 5pm phone call because "it was at the end of a long day and he was tired and fatigue was setting in."
You voted for Trump because foreign leaders wouldn't "respect" Clinton. Foreign leaders, both friendly and hostile, are openly mocking Trump.
You voted for Trump because Clinton lies and "he tells it like it is." Trump and his administration lie with a regularity and brazenness that can only be described as shocking.
Let's be honest about what really happened.
The reality is that you voted for Trump because you got conned. Trump is a grifter and the American people were his mark. Now that you know the score, quit insisting the con-man is on your side.
Here's the source document, JIT, those numbers are US.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/1/d/1xa0iLqYKz8x9Yc_rfhtmSOJQ2EGgeUVjvV4A8LsIaxY/htmlview?sle=true#gid=0
US TOTALS: Low Estimate 3.267 M. High 5.2M in the State by State tab.
Est US Total population. 2017: 324,420,000
3.267/3.244 = 1%.
JIT, I agree with the quote. Our disagreement is in our respective perceptions of reality.
JR- or is it jr. That's it? That's your best? The guy that claims to sit by the knee of the smartest kid in class? The guy who claims to be close to achieving ultimate wisdom as well? You can do better, can't you?
Is that you're version of a truce yankeefan? lol do as I say and not as I do, you're a real piece of work! Okay then... ;-)
JIT, I was responding to Jef Rep. Scroll back to his comments to me. Unless of course you two are brothers with a different mother? :)
SD...LOL...We we're just saying that, this morning. We didn't think anyone could be a worse president, than Dubya. Boy, were we wrong.
Ken, you summed it up perfectly!
JR said: " Exactly. You guys need to stop ignoring the reality that Trump IS the duly-elected President. He won fair and square. Now stop sucking on your pacifiers, stomping your feet, throwing tantrums, and get over it."
Alternative facts.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2017/02/07/governing_by_tantrum_133001.html
Nobody is throwing a tantrum over him being the President. We're expressing concern over his myriad questionable actions so far AS President.
And these actions are in no way similar to those of any previous POTUS. He's gone in wild directions that merit criticism, outrage, disgust, you name it.. Nobody cares about the election or Hilary any more. Now it's about figuring out what to do with the man-child we put in the driver's seat of our country.
Jimmy Carter's Presidential legacy stock is rising........ There's a new low bar in town now.
pamela "There's a new low bar in town now"
Not yet as low as giving billions of dollars in cash to Iran...or creating ISIS...or destroying the coal mining industry...or rising health care premiums...or not supporting law enforcement...or not enforcing immigration laws..
scottso 
Snowflakes . A single snowflake is different from all the others and holds no real power. Millions of snowflakes in a tight group can cause an avalanche to come down on your head and bury you. Be careful who you call a snowflake. (courtesy of a friend)
Scottso says:Not yet as low as giving billions of dollars in cash to Iran...or creating ISIS...or destroying the coal mining industry...or rising health care premiums...or not supporting law enforcement...or not enforcing immigration laws...
1. Not giving cash to Iran. Returning their frozen funds.
2. Creating ISIS? Really...Any recollection of the Weapons of Mass Destruction that led to the invasion of Iraq?
3. Destroying the coal mining industry? How? The truth is, Natural Gas is cheap and cleaner, China and India are abandoning coal, and renewables (wind and solar) are cheaper than coal.
4. Obama deported far more illegals than Bush did.
These are all easily verifiable. Of course, you obviously aren't troubled by a lack of facts.
Wow, Scottso, someone has been busy destroying America. Amazing we are still standing.
Thank God America is Great Again. Or at least the some people believe that to be true.
Me, I see a guy who is actually able to piss off Australia and thinks saying "bad hombres" will make Mexican leaders laugh and is the whiner-in-chief when it comes to the election ----- that he won......
So far Trump has invited Saudi Arabia, owners of most of the 9/11 terrorist personnel, to invest $45B into US high technology start-ups hiding being the Japanese that Trump saluted as proof of his leadership. Trump has provided the content to create numerous recruiting films for ISIS that can be seen all over the net. Trump killed a number of innocents including children in his first attempt in battle. Trump has not created one new industry much less re-establish old ones like coal, steel, or oil. Even his self-publicized factory saves are mostly smoke and mirrors. And he has signaled KMAYOYO (kiss my ***, you're on your own) for healthcare insurance putting MILLIONS of insured at risk of losing their coverage no matter what the price is. Meanwhile, not one less illegal Mexican immigrant is here, Mexico won't pay for the wall, you will.
The Great is not trickling down.......yet.
Point 1, numero uno, of Trump Pence 10 point plan
1. Begin working on an impenetrable physical wall on the southern border, on day one. Mexico will pay for the wall.
Hmmm....
"Don’t worry, we’re going to build the wall. That wall will go up so fast, your head will spin and you’ll say, you know, he meant it. And you know what else I mean? Mexico is going to pay for the wall."
Congratulations Mr. President on getting Betsy DeVos confirmed. Let's make education great again!
btownguy I hope her qualifications include closing down that department all together and drain the swamp..
Old Gent Good idea! No oversight in education! Let's not make sure that special needs students get what they need! Good idea!
Let's see, compared to all the other developed nations, American High School students currently rank:
35th in Math
23rd in Reading
24th in Science.
Clearly what we are currently doing isn't cutting it.
kb2755 The amway lady has no qualifications to be secretary of education other than being a very large financial contributor to the republican party.
If anyone has facts to support another viewpoint please provide them.
Jono Yes,Good idea! No oversight in education! Let's not make sure that special needs students get what they need! Good idea!
Give the responsibility the educate back to the states. Looks like the feds bureaucracy, one size fits all didn't work to well. I believe that the closer to home gets better results.
Give the responsibility back to the states?? Like New Jersey, where we have close to 600 school districts, all headed by over-compensated superintendents and our property taxes are sky high because of it? Great idea!
Tracy Btown guy,
If you have facts that support her qualifications to head education provide them. Stop with the empty partisan emotions and list those facts assuming there are some so we can have a good exchange.
Parents should get to choose another school if the one the government forces on their children isn't good for them. Bring on the vouchers! #betsydevouchers
"Clearly what we are currently doing isn't cutting it."
This seems true, IMO.
What DeVos advocates does not cut it either. At least according to her own results.
"I hope her qualifications include closing down that department all together" seems to be a bit rash unless you have some other information.
And apparently she has no qualifications beyond advocating something that she can not get to work.
An old saying frequently found when fostering fanaticism: "'Having lost sight of our objectives, we redoubled our efforts.' Time to double-down Betsy and charter us along our new course-load.
Tracy, This is NJ. don't expect much to change here. We only need 21 county supers. All that education money the feds have should be coming back to the states, divided by the number of students in each state.
DeVos was asked about policy on immunizations for entry to schools. She didn't even know that was an issue.
A TrumpCo Education Voucher (tm) is going to be like one of those class action law suits where the lawyers get all of the $. You'll get $150 off your next purchase of a $28,000 a year tuition that only the rich kids get.
Even if some policy is determined at a federal level, the rest is still state and delivered 100% as local as it can get. DeVos is even even grosser level lack of leadership - a solution that isn't a workable solution.
To quote Trump: "Disaster! This is going to be a disaster!"
Unspoken: "Those who disagree with me will be exiled to one of the seven countries that I've imposed a ban on. Be afraid. Be very afraid!"
"Even if some policy is determined at a federal level, the rest is still state and delivered 100% as local as it can get."
Which is why some folks question why we even need a Federal agency to oversee Education in the first place. The numbers seem to imply the spending and oversight has been inadequate to say the least, so maybe it's time to start asking if the entire department should go away and either be scaled back significantly or eliminated all together. Seems like a good solution to the DeVos problem ;-)
Ads about equality, the American Dream and inclusion are perceived to be anti-Trump.
Tells you a lot about Trump, doesn't it?
I see several people are still suffering from TDS (Trump Derangement Syndrome).
Trump won! More importantly, America won! Now it's time to rein in that insatiable leviathan, better known as, the Federal Government.
In Trump We Trust. E Pluribus Awesome!!!
The Democrats and Republicans can't keep Trump down because they can't get up early enough to keep up!
Just making America great again!
Trump's the deranged one. He doesn't have a clue about running this country.Now , instead of focusing on his promises, he's more concerned about his daughters' shoe line getting tossed from Nordstrom. Supposed to separate family business, from him being president, huh? Good luck with that one. The entire time, he spends in office, he will be more focused on making his family trillionaires, scheming all over the globe, to help it along, than worrying about the American people. It's already starting.
Jeff Sessions confirmed! Another big win for the Trump administration. Travel ban may be restored today (fingers crossed).
" see several people are still suffering from TDS (Trump Derangement Syndrome).
Trump won! More importantly, America won! Now it's time to rein in that insatiable leviathan, better known as, the Federal Government.
In Trump We Trust. E Pluribus Awesome!!!
The Democrats and Republicans can't keep Trump down because they can't get up early enough to keep up!
Just making America great again!"
I want to know where this narrative comes from about Donald Trump being a hard-working, roll-up-your-sleeves-and-get-stuff-done! kinda guy. (Aside from the man's mouth itself and the voices of his cronies.) Because it's not reality, or facts. Trump has lived his entirely life as almost a coming attraction for the social media/reality television era of celebrity we live in today--famous for being famous, rich because you were born rich, and completely unstable because they've never once dealt with things outside their own bubbles. He hasn't actually worked to earn a dime in his life, lost more money than he's made, and just coasted on clever branding (Trump = Rich in America because he constantly reminded you he was rich, even when he wasn't.)
President Trump continues his quest to destroy the Presidency, America's shinning example of government-by-the-people.
First he accosts Nordstrom for dropping the first lady's shoe line. I mean she went to Dover to honor our fall, shouldn't Trump be able to screw with Nordstrom's stock for his own personal, I mean family's gain? Isn't it OK for a President to demand that Americans boycott an American Retailer? Note that the stock rose by the end of day, Donald....
This is not his first presidential foray singling out certain businesses for success or failure as The Dondald sees fit......often on a whim.
Boeing, America's largest manufacturing exporter, came under Trump's fire for it's Air Force One price. The price was a competitive, negotiated, 2015 contract, and probably fair. Boeing stock plunged, as in fell off the cliff, although it did regain by EOD just like Nordstrom --- take note Donald.
Amazing, Donald attacked Boeing hours after it's CEO publically assailed the administration's plan to curtail free and open markets. Again, Boeing is our largest exporter, they know international commerce and the CEO noted: "Last year, we delivered 495 737s from our factory in Renton, WA, to customers around the world." He also pointed out that a third of the planes went to China. Trump, on the other hand, knows how to lie, and how spend too much money on planes. First the $4B Boeing contract Trump claimed was really a $170M contract for Air Force One. The $4B is total Boeing contracts. Second, Trump himself, well actually you and even I on Trump's behalf, spent $6.7M on HIS aircraft before the election since he wouldn't fly our already secured planes. Heck, taxpayers spent $1.6M with TrumpCo for tickets for the Secret Service to fly on his plane.... Oh yeah, his private plane is a Boeing and it's smaller than ours.
It's not all bad news for companies being singled out by Trump. Sometimes he picks winners too. Trump International Hotel is doing a booming business. Trump regularly stops by to address groups and meetings (see pic). His Press Secretary speaks the new truth: "That he’s going to his own hotel? I mean, I think that’s pretty smart. I think the idea that he’s going to his own hotel shouldn’t be a shocker. It’s a beautiful place. It’s a place that he’s very proud of.” Then Spicer blurted out: "It’s an absolutely stunning hotel. I encourage you all to go there if you haven’t been by.” And have the Trump steak with a little Trump water....
Trump went after Lockheed as well, sucking over 2% or $4B of the company's total value out of the stock price. Of course, continued stock losses will result in unemployment --- perhaps Trump's real strategy.
So far there are a number of companies Trump has personally chosen to be losers. Some for Trump perceived high costs, some for what appears to be having different political opinions, some for revenge of perceived past crimes upon Trump. So far, he has picked on larger and fairly strong companies. Sooner or later, he will misfire and take some weaker company completely out of the picture.
This is not how Presidents do business with business in America. Our Presidents don't pick winners and losers on personal whims. Our Presidents don't pick on specific businesses for having different opinions or points of view. Most important, our Presidents do not profit their own businesses and Trump family businesses. Our Presidents don't get personal, they create national programs and policies that allow all Americans to succeed and realize the American dream.
Question for those of you who are Trump admirers:
Is it still true that if he shoots someone in the middle of 5th Avenue (the implication being that it would be without provocation), it would have no bearing on your support?
(This was a Trump claim during the campaign.)
"First the $4B Boeing contract Trump claimed was really a $170M contract for Air Force One."
$170M spent *to date*.
Total projected costs for Air Force One R&D and procurement are $3.2B, per the GAO report released last year.
http://www.gao.gov/assets/680/676281.pdf
See Page 166. Not all payable to Boeing, but $3.2B is a lot closer to $4B than $170M. (...and when does anything government related come in on/under budget?)
Mark Mc. Trump said he was going to make America great again. He omitted, for whom, exactly.
Some of you are funny... He's been president for less than a month. Get your panties out of a knot...
Metsman 
"He's been president for less than a month"
He's been a festering carbuncle for 70 years. If you expect that to change, YOU are the one who is "funny".
ianimal Mark,
Think you might have missed the point I was attempting to make. President Trump should not be picking winners and losers for specific US businesses. He should not even be involved specific contract negotiations, it's a waste of his time. This is not free market capitalism nor how our Democracy works. He certainly shouldn't damage a company just because he does not like the results of a report the government committed the $170M for. Especially one where the report appears valid and Trump appears to be only partly correct.
Trump should not use the power of his pulpit to damage Boeing's, or any other company's, stock price to publically personally negotiate terms. And if he's going to pick winners and losers for government contracts, he should not lie. For Boeing, there are no cost overruns. Boeing does not have a contract to build Air Force One. You got what you paid for Don.
The truth. Sure, Trump is, as usual, in the ball park with his tweet but way far away from his box seats. He is an idiot when he says: “Boeing is building a brand new 747 Air Force One for future presidents, but costs are out of control, more than $4 billion. Cancel order!”
What followed his idiocy was a tsunami of Boeing stock sales. Boeing's market value took a big hit, and until the truth came out by end of day, was in jeopardy of losing 2% of its capitalization. Just because Trump picks-a-loser tweet. Sure, you can say the stock bounced back but the truth is Trump picked a loser and someone in those stock sales got hurt because of it. And he is doing it all the time.
Yes, Mark, the $170M is not for a plane. That's the point, there is no contract for a plane. The Boeing signed contract was to deliver design and risk reduction studies. It's the only contract, to date, that Boeing has for Air Force One.
Boeing has no billion dollar contract to build Air Force One, the $4B is an estimate and in the ball park. You are right, "Not all payable to Boeing" in that much of the plane price is for communications, security, and nuclear hardening. Also, the payment is probably over a 12-year lifecycle as parts are developed and redesigned over time.
Oh yeah... the ultimate contract will be for 2 planes ---- not the one Trump alluded to. That's $2B for Air Force One, so I guess Trump just got 50% off!!!!
Sadly, we will be exchanging jokes like above and occasional insults because Trump is who he is and will not change. If his staff or Ivanka cannot get him to change or at least no longer use twitter what do you expect. Hopefully some of his policies may work for the sake of the country. Trump's personality traits, tendencies to lie, attack and belittle people really worry me. These traits are troublesome in any leader of a country and unforgiveable for someone who is attempting to be a leader of the free world.
Maybe Trump will settle in. We will know for sure in 6 months.
"It's the only contract, to date, that Boeing has for Air Force One."
Yes, this is true (I'll take your word on that), but obviously somebody in the GAO has run "future" numbers - which will no doubt add to Boeing's take. At a minimum, there's another $282M just to purchase the aircraft themselves.
Where's the other $2.7B going? Maybe not available for public release at this point... military secrets and all. I would imagine that Boeing knows, since they have to actually integrate all the sub-systems into the planes and may be acting as a "general contractor" in identifying and managing those sub-system consultants and manufacturers.
At the end of the day "Boeing" is the nameplate on the aircraft and just like you'd yell at Toyota if the price of your Prius went up because they chose to install a more expensive radio (that you didn't want or added no value to you) Trump is not entirely wrong in pointing a finger at them.
If they want the "prestige" (and stock value) of being the Air Force One manufacturer, they have to take the lumps with it. Heck, if their only risk was the loss of $170M, then their stock shouldn't have moved. They *discount* many millions off new planes (some estimates are up to 30% - or about $80M off a new 777 list price) without batting an eye.
Mark, maybe you could share with us your experience in designing and building sophisticated jet aircraft. Sounds like you must have had a long career in the industry. Or did you design radios for Toyota. Either way, it's clear your expertise qualifies you to make astute pronouncements on the subject.
I think you all misunderstood....
Trump promised to "Make America GRATE again".
And he is succeeding. Just ask Australia, Great Britain, Germany, Mexico, China, etc, etc....
gadfly Mark,
Numbers aide, I said that I don't think it is proper for a President to pick some companies to win and others to lose. He has got to realize that President Trump's words matter more than citizen Trump's did. Unlike citizen Trump who's words didn't matter for anything except sideshow spectacle, President Trump's words actually matter. Real people can get hurt when he assaults companies he deems as misbehaving.
Those were people that he claimed to save at Carrier that weren't saved when he boasted an employee retention number that was not true. Those were people who invested in Boeing but sold in a panic because Trump put the L on Boeing's forehead. When Donald blasted Big Pharma on pricing, the sector lost $30B in market capitalization in less than half an hour. Sure, no victims. Except those who took a loss in the chaos that is Trump. He scored about 3% of Toyota's market cap over his tweet about Toyota's pending Mexican plant. Trump failed to see it was replacing a Canadian plant while Toyota has over $20B invested by in American plants. Who gets hurt when Toyota loses capital it could have used for hiring, expanding, etc.?
To the point of Boeing, do the numbers even matter? Even if the $4B was for two planes, and not one, does it matter? Even if it wasn't $4B, but less. is that the important part? Even if Boeing doesn't have a contract, therefore they could not have charged too much, ever, no way --- whatever. Really who cares.
The only thing Trump has said is he THINKS the price is too high. He has no facts. He presented no case. Then his actions are to "twitter yell" at them to lower their price. He thinks, as the deal master, the master negotiator, that Boeing will lower the price it if he bully's them. He leverages the Presidential bully pulpit to publically humiliate Boeing to lower the price --- even though Boeing doesn't even own the price. He drops their stock price and puts the business at risk. Wow, tough stuff.
So Boeing pull a masterful PR move and tells Trump "OK, we give. We'll bring it in at your higher price of $4B --- you win, we did want you said. Wink, wink, nudge, nudge.
Trump claims victory ----- and let's face it folks, the claim is the Trump product.
Did Trump ever say why he thought the price was too high? Did Trump ever have any, oh -- what do you call them, you know --- those pesky things ---- oh yeah, FACTS? Did Turnip have any design changes to reduce the price? And if $4B was too high a price for Trump, then why did Trump accept Boeing's commitment to bring it in at $4B or less? Perhaps if he had seen the report, he would have gone for $3.2B. Like I said, idiot on many fronts.
Rumor has it that for the $4B higher price that Trump accepted, that Boeing will deliver exactly to Trump's request: One spankin new Air Force One. ssssssh. don't tell the Duck what the second one costs......
"Mark, maybe you could share with us your experience in designing and building sophisticated jet aircraft."
I don't build aircraft but I DO build sophisticated electronics inside cardiac pacemakers, implantable defibrillators, spinal cord and deep brain stimulators for one of the largest medical technology/health care manufacturers (~$20B in annual revenue) so I think I know a bit about manufacturing.
I also know that if a company takes a 2% hit on their stock (losing ~$2B in market cap) at the prospect of cancelling a "mere" $170M contract, there's more money at stake somewhere else.
I'll be sure to ask for your resume every time you comment on any topic, though.
I'm waiting for the companies and jobs to return... BTW I feel like Bannon is the real president...God Speed 2020
Hackettstown Woman SD - $4B may be a heck of a deal for aircraft development. As a point of comparison, Boeing spent ~$32B developing the 787 (on an estimate of $6B - oops 530% over budget should be good for Air Force One too) but that doesn't mean it's smart to spend the money. Take 50% off the price of a Lamborghini and I still can't justify buying one, even at that great price.
I applaud any effort to cut the cost of taxpayer funded projects whenever and wherever it's possible.
Maybe it's OK... Even $3.2B is peanuts compared to the $0.06 people are complaining about getting overcharged at the movies and grocery stores lately.
Metsman, less than a month? Based on all of his Day One promises, we should be yugely Great already.
http://vesselnews.io/fake-newsflow-new-york-times-washington-post-buying-clicks-china-traffic-jumps-half-traffic-two-months/
NY Times, Guardian UK and WaPo caught buying manipulating the Google Algorithim by purchasing Traffic - half of the clicks are from China.
"All three news outlets spent much of 2016 trying to influence the election in favor of Hillary Clinton with biased coverage and regular hit pieces against Donald Trump."
but it was Putin who interfered with the election?
skippy The most liberal court in the land blocks the anti-terrorist travel ban. To the Supreme Court!!
The most liberal... and most overturned.
I say we wait until Gorsuch is confirmed though. After all, everyone has argued that the Supreme Court needs to be full and every nominee deserves a quick hearing, right?
Most liberal? A Carter, GW Bush and an Obama appointee. Unanimous. Tough. If it goes to the Supreme Court and ends in a 4- 4 tie, the 9th Court decision stands.
Oh, NOW jet builder Mark thinks a Supreme Court nominee deserves a hearing. Strangely silent while Garland was ignored for a year. Maybe he was costing out F 35s and was preoccupied.
On the positive side, you can get Ivana's fashion line pretty inexpensively these days. Especially at Nordstrom's.
The ruling is focused on the narrow question of whether the ban should be blocked while courts consider its lawfulness. It wouldn't make sense to wait for Gorsuch since the ban supposedly is needed now, temporarily, as an emergency.
Note then that no decision has been made as to whether the ban is lawful. That has to be decided in a future trial, and that decision too can be appealed upward, ultimately to the supreme court.
"Oh, NOW jet builder Mark thinks a Supreme Court nominee deserves a hearing."
...and NOW you think otherwise? Just holding you to your own standards.
"Maybe he was costing out F 35s"
Maybe, that's an expensive program too, but Lockheed Martin did just say that Trump was involved in some pretty aggressive negotiations to adress that problem as well.
Actually, no, I don't think otherwise. I think there should be a hearing and a vote. As I did with Garland. Republicans behaved badly, to say the least. Doesn't behoove Democrats to jump in the baby pool with them.
Your boy got schooled by the court tonight. The SCOTUS may ultimately overturn their decision. So be it. Trump is not the king. The incompetent schoolyard bully is finding that out quickly. Likewise his lying mouthpiece Conway. Three weeks in and this administration has done nothing but embarrass themselves and the country. Trump is more concerned with SNL and Nordstrom's than F 35s.
""Oh, NOW jet builder Mark thinks a Supreme Court nominee deserves a hearing."
...and NOW you think otherwise? Just holding you to your own standards."
Such utter, utter crap.
Supreme Court Justice nominee gets delayed from a fair hearing for over a year, versus a Supreme Court Justice nominee not getting rushed in to give the President a favorable vote. GTFO.
"Such utter, utter crap."
Yep, like the Democrats threatening to filibuster his hearing... or those that boycotted other nominations (not showing up to the committee meetings at all).
Just funny tactics from those so opposed and complaining about Republican "obstruction" in the last administration. Leading by example, I see...
thecoach It's okay for Republicans to antagonize but when Democrats do the same, suddenly there's a problem? Got it. Republicans are the bully on the playground who runs home to daddy when a kid finally fights back and punches him in the teeth.
More lies from Trumputin
Sessions calls rise in crime a "dangerous permanent trend"..............
but FBI data shows rate consistently falling.
Repeat: Consistently Falling !!
Ha-Ha!
Looks to me like the President is the one melting down...
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/donald-trump-challenges-governing-presidency-234879
And the buyer's remorse is only beginning...
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/09/us/california-farmers-backed-trump-but-now-fear-losing-field-workers.html?
Nah Mark, shouldn't wait for the nominee. That's something the left would do, this is about action. The President needs to take the terrorist travel ban to the Supreme Court or drop it. There's plenty of stuff to do. I'd rather the 'sanctuary city' thing go to the Supreme Court and have them decide whether or not agencies need to enforce federal law. If the court rules in the cities/states favor then I propose we setup sanctuary cities for other things. A sanctuary city for gun owners, a sanctuary city for pro-life people, a sanctuary city where people aren't forced to do things against their religious beliefs...
Let's also have the Supreme Court decide on whether someone who is not a citizen, has never been to America, was born and raised in a foreign country has a Constitutional right to come here. Seems self-evident that they do not, but let's have the court decide.
Obamacare needs repealing, taxes need cutting and a wall has to get built. Lots to do!
"Republicans are the bully on the playground who runs home to daddy when a kid finally fights back and punches him in the teeth."
Go ahead and "fight back"... the Republicans have tools to beat any filibuster and the Democrats that skipped the committee meetings weren't needed anyway. That's not "running home to daddy".
I was just pointing out your hypocrisy of crying foul whenever the Republicans blocked Democrat legislation, but then they turn right around and immediately attempt to do it themselves. If you recall (maybe you haven't been around here long enough) several of us have always said that's exactly how government should work, I just find it amusing that your "team" still claims to have the "moral high ground" while behaving in the manner they despised a few short months ago.
Not saying both sides have to agree... just get up, say your vote Yea or Nay, and sit down. No need to pontificate for hours on the chamber floors or take your toys and go home (i.e. skip your own committee).
CA farmers just figuring it out: priceless!!
Trump ran his fantastic business like a small family business. He has only had one boss in his life: his father. Surrounded by "the family," he created his empire of opportunity willing to brand just about anything that would profit him. That's right, Trump makes most of his money by offering, for money, the "protection" of his Trump brand. He'd slap it on Heroin if it was legal. His most important non-family business asset was his team of consiglieri consisting of legal and contract management experts. He says he likes the Jews for this. The family ran the show and Trump ran the family. He has been very successful (although probably only a quarter of what he claims, like $3B).
There is no right or wrong in that; it's just the way it is.
During his time in business he has no social service experience, and his governmental interactions have a checkered level of success. He loses as much as he wins when he interacts with government. Heck, most often he settles which is called a compromise in governmental work.
Now he runs an organization that is expansive, diverse, and requires leadership, often without direct employee control, to get things done. There is no family. Yet he has continued to surround himself still with as many family members as he can on his inner circle, and then a close cadre of really scary cabinet members and advisors in the next ring. He basically brought his entire campaign staff on board at the White House. That's assuming that people who win campaigns have the skill set to run the country. Kind of like Bill Clinton hiring Carville for Whitehouse communications. This is probably the scariest bunch of idiots who either know little about what they are doing, much less the subject matter they are now the nation's expert for. They are successful in their fields of endeavor. Yet for governing, Trump has assembled what may be the worst skilled cabinet in American history.
Trump is out of his element and surrounded mostly by buffoons and idiots.
"Aides confer in the dark because they cannot figure out how to operate the light switches in the cabinet room. Visitors conclude their meetings and then wander around, testing doorknobs until finding one that leads to an exit."
Sure, some of that is start-up, but the bigger problem is Trump, like his own business, has a small skeleton crew of advisors none of which know how to turn on the lights.
Since he can't wait for Congress, Trump has now signed the most EO's of any President in the first few weeks. This is not a unifying action for either faction that Trump is attempting to unite. Most of these EO's are feckless pieces of PR for Trump to claim he is keeping promises when really he's just putting ink on paper, often nothing more than that. In the cases where the EO requires action, Trump has mostly fumbled the ball in implementation. Usually there is some stupid screw up team Trump should have seen coming.
If they knew what they were doing.
Is anyone in this administration capable of telling the truth?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/michael-flynn-russia-sanctions_us_589d6c69e4b0ab2d2b13e518?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009
Scottso says:
"A sanctuary city for gun owners, a sanctuary city for pro-life people, a sanctuary city where people aren't forced to do things against their religious beliefs...
Let's also have the Supreme Court decide on whether someone who is not a citizen, has never been to America, was born and raised in a foreign country has a Constitutional right to come here. Seems self-evident that they do not, but let's have the court decide. "
In what city do you not already have those things? As for your immigration stance, would that also have applied to the Irish and Italians? (To mention just a few of the waves of immigrants that made America great. )
Open up your wallet...you'll be paying for that wall, for any ACA repeal, and you'll be funding the real tax cuts the 1% gets.
My immigration stance is that there are laws governing legal immigration to the U.S. and anyone in the world wishing to live here needs to follow them.
No one has a right to sneak into another country and live outside its laws.
Doesn't that sound reasonable?
YF --- come on, there is no Constitutional right for open door, immigration, or even vacation travel to the US, much less immigration. If you lean that far left, you may fall over :>)
Day 21: Things looking great, getting greater all the time. People love me, I am The Great Unifier!!!!
Just caved in and 180'd my China position on Taiwan; Taiwan screwed, China wins, Trump looks like wimp bowing to China as he reverses himself to agree with the One China policy like Obama. "Hey, it's unified." Got Kelly Anne Conway wearing funny clothes and selling Trump product. Crashed the Ethics Police website. No such thing as bad press, shoe sales can only go up. No one even noticed that the scarecrow was selling Chinese product for Ivanka. China --- unifier. No conflicts.
For the house, I put up some gold curtains, think they were FDR's, seem to have a stain. No Melania here but Ivanka is here. I just can't shoe her away. Big grope-out goes to Melania this week. She is suing because she can't sell product and her current opportunity, because of her skill and talent, is HUGE for some reason. She IS "very traditional, like Betty Ford or Jackie Kennedy." I mean Jackie and Jack didn't sleep together much either. No M but still have my kid, Bannon, in the house. He has grown since the election so I gave him a job. Just like my Dad. Booked some more DC Hotel public speaking gigs; I just love that place. It's great. You gotta stay there.
Scarred the hell out of Boeing. Now we understand each other when I tell them --- make it gold, make it gold.
OK, so Mexico won't pay for the wall; I'll just punt and tell my peeps they WILL pay later. All caps tells them it's true.
Ban the ban is bad. Judges suck. I mean it's Extreme Vetting. If that's not a TV show in the making (this week we sit in and film the interrogations of.....) Not sure what to make of my SCOTUS puppet saying if you mess with one judge you mess with them all. Might have to send Bannon for a little retraining visit.
We are in Sessions! Now he will go after the rising rampant crime, rape, and murder covering the land like "bad hombres" swimming the Rio. According to Sessions, it's bringing down payrolls in America. Whattaya mean, violent crime is way down. The NRA says bad guys are everywhere. Especially "those people in "those places." For Jeff, I put up a few EOs to cut cartel crime, police homicide, and violent crime. Got less crime? Need more laws, more task forces, more money spent looking for crime, more laws. Two of these EOs are task forces, not going to get in trouble there. The third promises to prosecute police killers at the Federal level taking that responsibility away from the states. Yup, that's action!!! I said it and it may happen, who knows. But looks good and if it doesn't happen, who cares --- violent crime is down. I did it! For some real action, I got to deport a Mom who came here at 14 as a kid, lived here basically trouble-free for 22-years, forged some documentation to get work, has a husband and two teen-age American kids. Got to watch them pack her bags, so cool. Hey, wrong is wrong and if you can't pay the fine, don't do the crime. I mean love hurts. Let it be. Well gotta go ---- trying to get some martial law for Chicago. Man, I can't wait to shut that place down to make it safe.
And I insulted Australia. That's got to be a first, another Trump record.
Here's what you said:
"Let's also have the Supreme Court decide on whether someone who is not a citizen, has never been to America, was born and raised in a foreign country has a Constitutional right to come here. Seems self-evident that they do not, but let's have the court decide. "
Now you backpedal and change the premise. Very Trumpian of you.
We now have a 70 year old toddler for our president. Every time something doesn't go his way he has a temper tantrum!!
I know what I said. Someone who is not a U.S. citizen does not have the right to just come here. If they would like to immigrate, there are laws to follow. the two statements are not contradictory.
US Military Considering Renting Space in Trump Tower-
http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2017/02/09/us-military-considering-renting-space-trump-tower/
Need the space to provide the necessary security for Melania and Barron since they won't move to DC. And Trump when he's there. Why is Trump charging rent for this?
The White House already has security, they are supposed to live there.
Looks like Biden and Obama had similar deals.
hktownie Trump's charging one million dollars a year rent, for the secret service "to be closer to him, while in New York ", but please don't say anything. He completely separated himself, from his businesses, remember? Keep mum on the Nordstrom deal, as well. Trump's sure is keeping his promises. With all the crisis going on, in the world, he's got to worry about shoes?! Well, he did say that he would make America great again. Just omitted for whom, exactly. *This is bad, folks. Very, very bad* tweet tweet.
its common - Clinton and Trump were both reimbursed
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/donald-trump-secret-service-campaign-travel-payments-228553
otherwise it causes conflicts of interest.
"The true liar can be recognized by his frank, fearless statements, his superb irresponsibility, his healthy, natural disdain of proof of any kind."
Oscar Wilde, "The Decay of Lying" (1891)
Hey SD
quit your whining! He will find his way and Congress better get ready to start WORKING full time.
You will personally benefit via better and more affordable healthcare.....
lower taxes once the 47% start getting jobs and pay IN instead of sucking money out
When these changes occur you will acknowledge it right????
I promise that I will vote him out if he fails (as long as the failure isn't guaranteed .by the left) (you know what I mean by that, so don't ask.)
Will you give credit where credit is due? or just crawl under your rock?
"once the 47% start getting jobs and pay IN instead of sucking money out"
All of the retirees collecting Social Security are going to be forced to start working again? Even if they're 90 years old? I didn't think even Trump was that much of a d-nozzle...
An average of 10,000 people are turning 65 daily since 2011 and that daily number is to remain constant for 19 years until 2030. Clearly there will be a need to make changes to SS but everyone keeps kicking the can down the road. Taking away the cap on when they stop taking it out of your paycheck is a start. I believe it is around $127,000 for 2017.
http://www.pewresearch.org/daily-number/baby-boomers-retire/
Ianimal------- you know what I mean
i'm talking about leaches not those who built the system
Whining... Why is it Conservatives have to call it whining? Some kind of Mommy issues?
Is it really whining to talk about Trump's clusterquack of a rollout? Did we not talk about some issues along the way? The fact he's the Wallmart of Executive Oders (less money, less quality, more volume); the Tweet Tormentor; regaler of the fourth estate, defender of the rich, the wealthy, and the American way. He respects women too. I grope you are right and that his pretty shaky startup will shake some dust off his brain, provide illumination and "He will find his way."
I really do.
I have said before that I am on the winning end of Trump's financial gifts. However, more affordable healthcare --- not bloody likely --- I am not in ObamaCare and those folks are screwed, are going to drop their insurance due to the Trump plan) and his plan offers little other financial benefit to anyone else. If you read Trump's tax plan, you are partly right --- the 47% does go away --- it get's even bigger. And where is it a law that everyone should pay Federal taxes. It's not like they don't pay taxes, it's not like they don't pay federal taxes. They pay plenty. Why do you want more money for the Fed? Larger guberment maybe?
I will probably be financially better off under Trump. Of course, we all will suffer when he increases our pollution levels. If he screws up deregulation, here comes that food poisoning. So far, he's not on a great rollout trajectory.
There's no going back to coal and steel or butter churns or whatever. Those jobs were lost to automation and most new factories will do the same. Ask the factory folk saved by Trump. Only a portion get saved as the company sinks Trump's tax gift on the deal into automation leaving many unemployed anyway. How can he rebuild our highways, rebuild our airports, rebuild our internet, enlarge our Army to Iraq/Afghan levels, and drop taxes without having to pay the piper? Sounds like stimulus on steroids.
At least I had hope.
And sure, like I have been doing, I will acknowledge all changes. I'll take a look at his plans, his EO's, and might even head out to Chicago after he declares martial law. As soon as a good thing occurs, I will ACK back. ACKualy (heh, heh) --- I have already ACK'd some reasonable things. At least IMHO.
As far as the rock thing, I think you know what to do.
Kb, a lot of people don't even know about the SS cap. The media and politicians never talk about it. That income cap needs to be removed, for SS, to work. $127k is the average salary, of most middle class families. Any income, above that amount, goes untaxed. The ultra wealthy only pay on the first 127k of yearly income. That's it! Millions and millions, go untaxed. We are all taxed on things we may not need, like schools, football fields, etc. That's what keeps the ball rolling. Fair taxes. I still like the flat tax idea, and treating all income the same. Not investments taxed at %15 while, a single 27 year old pays %37 of their paycheck. All these wealthy tax cuts are what's really causing this mess we're in. Income is income. Period.
I'm just hoping I can get back into the country after my vacation. Passports don't seem to mean much any more.
No worries, GC, after the two year vetting process, you'll be home sweet home. :)
Yankeefan - Two? The current process before anything happened was already averaging two years. I'm expecting it take the exact amount of time the current president is in office. Accidentally on purpose. That's not vetting, that's a policy.
GC, you may want to consider buying property at your vacation site so the wait will at least be comfortable. With any luck his tenure will be less than four years. Best of luck! (And scrub all of your social media, high school and college yearbooks...anything that might point to you as a possible you know what) :)
Interesting read:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/01/31/us/politics/trump-cabinet-confirmation-votes.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur
Not much of a difference with the votes on Obama's cabinet choices.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmations_of_Barack_Obama%27s_Cabinet
Yankeefan - To be honest, I'm being a bit facetious but these days if you think just a few other expansions of the type of blocking and who knows what can happen. Being identified as "a possible you know what" is not my issue. Even if there are some social media (which didn't exist when I was in high school and college) out there I don't think anything that might discuss the Dhammapada or Bodhi Trees will be an issue. (although you never know, karma might be declared a national thread)
But if you think about expansion of policy to "support" new friends, I could have a real serious issue. Lets just say that a former client of mine, and a certain glaring visa to an Eastern European country in my old passport could be declared "interesting" to Mr Putin. Just in case of that I renewed my old passport early to be able to have a clean slate when I went to Finland and Estonia last year. The climate was pretty darn bad for travel to St Petersburg for Americans. The precise origin of the visa while they were at war with the client would certainly have raised an eyebrow. Which means today, I sure don't want to be caught coming back to the US with that passport either. The ground rules today are like an earthquake, I don't see them as trustworthy. So to some extent even though it likely will not happen, compare that to things that were never supposed to happen as well.
As for buying property, yeah right. I did a quick check and you need some kind of weird approval from a city council, as well as a visa to stay. Fat chance. That's kind of the point. Will Trump Co (tm) put me up at one of their foreign properties for my troubles? Can I send the US taxpayers my bill for not being able to get back to my US home and pay my bills here? That's part of the whole point. By no means are citizens the only ones with protected rights. If I got my residency approved in another country and could own property there, would I have a legal resource if they didn't allow me into their country to live at my residence? That's what this EO did to people. An EO is allowed to affect new *visas*, but residents and citizens and even others with already approved visas have rights. Live within legal limits and get it right or pack up your bags and call it a day. This isn't bad reality TV where you pick incompetents via the Peter principle. Oh wait. Never mind.
This is for Skippy---
http://www.theonion.com/article/steve-bannon-mixes-discarded-climate-change-report-55278
GC, I understood you were being facetious, as was I. Nonetheless, we agree, this EO was incompetently written and the consequences are far reaching. Sanity has prevailed thus far thanks to the 9th Circuit Court.
YF - if by 'EO' you mean the '9th circuit's decision' and by 'sanity' you mean insanity we're in complete agreement.
Do you even know what the word plenary means?
So about that wall (the wrong solution IMO). It's purpose is for what, preventing legal immigrants with visas? What about sanctuary cities where law enforcement chooses to NOT enforce existing immigration law and look the other way. Is that "sanity " too? Or is that just emotion overriding law?
Where's the discussion about getting*illegals* vetted and provided with *legal* citizenship? Wouldn't that actually be a productive endeavor instead of the twisted logic that is currently being used to accept and condone their illegal status?
I'm amazed at how the appropriate logic can be applied to the EO discussed above but thrown out the window when it comes to illegal immigrants.
JIT, agreed. We absolutely need an adult conversation focused on comprehensive immigration reform. I'm having a difficult time finding adults in this administration and in Congress.
Our previous President had a plan...at least a discussion starting point.
https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/blog/2013/01/29/president-obamas-four-part-plan-comprehensive-immigration-reform
Makes sense to me. But here is the rub, and the part that I have a hard time understanding: The law as it stands *today* wasn't being enforced - by choice. How can we have a society governed by laws when we collectively allow them to not be enforced?
The highest executive office of the land has not done their job by enforcing the law. This isn't just Obama, but many years of Presidents before him. If any law sucks that badly then the consequences of enforcing the law would surely lead to a repeal/change of that law, would it not?
As you've probably guessed it's my opinion that societal acceptance of ignoring laws is a big (some may say yuuuuuuugggge ;-)) part of the problem and has fed the irrational us-vs-them mentality that has such a tight grip over us today.
Can we move all the Mexicans out of Hackettstown and build a wall ? Oh thats right,even more stores and buildings would be abandoned. Everyone I'm sure is ok paying taxes for the multiple families that live in some of the homes in our town and are here illegally.
Before anyone says how do I know they're illegal,I've used a few of them to clean up my yard and they always requested cash not a check.
You want to live in this country and are here illegally,fine,pay taxes and stop sending $ back home and spend it here in the Great US of A or Gtfo. The Inn id full No more vacancy. Especially for people who mooch off us. That includes those on welfare who could work but choose to be a burden to the rest of us hard working Americans.
Make USA great again,the USA is already great,now let's clean it up and drain the swamp.
And how many people actually were detained during the travel ban compares to how many people leave and come to this country everyday ,it was nothing. Stop whining all you so called illegal lovers,meanwhile you all call them racist names behind their backs and wouldn't want them living in your neighborhood would you? I wouldn't.
47ladybug a little bit of factchecking on illegal immigrants if you care to read: http://money.cnn.com/2014/11/20/news/economy/immigration-myths/
"But under current immigration laws, there are very few options for legal immigration, the costs are increasingly prohibitive and the wait for any kind of status can be long and frustrating."
4catmom, I cared to read. #5 is not a myth it's simply an excuse to break laws. See justintime's post above.
Why do you want to destroy America?
Your#5 addresses my point exactly 4carmom. The article uses it as an excuse but ignores the real but intangible problems stemming from concious law-breaking.
How about enforce the law in order to change the law?
47ladybug,
Perhaps you should just build a wall around your home, and wall yourself in?
Pray tell, is it just "Mexicans" you despise, or anyone who doesn't speak English? You do realize that not all Spanish-speaking people are Mexican; in fact, with the exception of Brazil (where the native language is Portuguese) all the countries of Central and South America are Spanish-speaking.
Your hypocrisy is showing...you despise "Mexicans" but you use them as cheap labor to clean up your yard. What's the matter, don't want to pay a decent wage to an American landscaper?
JerryG Immigrants are a mix of good and bad, like everyone else. Asking for cash, they often have little education of this country and can get taken advantage of. I have seen the illegals that save up and send money "home" for family or to build a house, etc. I agree there are big problems with gang members and criminals, and who has to pay for their children in the schools (taxpayers). No simple answers, but to start with the gang members would be a fair start...
call you what you want but this scares me.............. http://billmoyers.com/story/breitbart-lynch-mob-came/
Along with Ivanka's clothing being dropped at Nordstrom, now Sears and Kmart have removed Trumputin's furnishings from their online store.
Wonder what the twit will tweet tonite??? Ha-Ha!!!
Wow -- that had to be one of the best SNL broadcasts in history.
The Kelly Ann Conway skit was one of the funniest things I have seen.
Trump's appearance at "The People's Court" was hysterical.
Finally --- the black Trump ...... I'm sure it will eat away at that racist Donald Trumputin all night long ..... he probably won't sleep a wink! ;-) ;-) ;-)
Hey look- the "other side" can protest/rally too... I wonder if they'll set anything on fire, or leave the place looking like a garbage dump?
More than 200 across the country...
http://newjersey.news12.com/news/protesters-rally-to-defund-planned-parenthood-1.13107493?=454
4catmom, you know that Breitbart was started by a Zionist Jew and their tactic is to steer white nationalists to hating Islam? Typical enemy-of-my-enemy is my friend. Now, of course, they (Zionists) are playing with gasoline. While manipulating these people can provide good results it can also backfire. But, I guess the manipulation potential was just too sweet to ignore?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_Nationality_Act_of_1965
Interesting reading...
"Republicrats" putting their money where their mouth is...
NEW YORK (AP) -- The nearly century-old American Civil Liberties Union says it is suddenly awash in donations and new members as it does battle with President Donald Trump over the extent of his constitutional authority, with nearly $80 million in online contributions alone pouring in since the election.
That includes a record $24 million surge over two days after Trump banned people from seven predominantly Muslim countries from entering the United States. The organization said its membership has more than doubled since the election to a record of nearly 1.2 million, and its Twitter following has tripled.
"It feels like we're drinking from a fire hydrant," said ACLU Executive Director Anthony Romero, adding that the election has brought immigration, refugee, reproductive, civil and voting rights "to a high boil."
"What's really heartening is people are paying attention. They're aware of the crisis on the horizon," he said. "There's a real sense of urgency."
After Trump's election, the ACLU greeted the age of Trump on its website and magazine with a fresh slogan: "See you in court." That was the same expression Trump used in his tweeted response to a federal appeals court's decision refusing to reinstate the travel ban.
The ACLU has won court orders in New York, Massachusetts and Maryland against the president's travel ban. It has also filed a Freedom of Information Act request for documents on the billionaire's potential conflicts of interest. And it intends to bring a legal challenge accusing him of violating the Constitution's Emoluments Clause by accepting payments from foreign governments at his hotels and other properties.
Jerry G. I don't believe I said i despised Mexicans or anyone that doesn't speak English. I do however despise people of any race that moochies off hard working AMERICAN citizens who are here legally, pay taxes ,and are beneficial to our country. And as far as hiring them to clean my yard,try finding a WHITE American that would do it for the same amount or even want to foe that matter. Dont you remember being and shoveling driveways or cutting the neighbors lawn for a few $ ? Try finding a kid that would do that now.
Our youth are laxy,overweight and spoiled. It's the pussification of America. Let's all get a trophy,God forbid we yell or raise our voice to our children,wouldn't want them to grow up and need therapy.
PS - Building a wall around my home would be great,as long as Mexico helps pay for it. Haha.
Oh so you really just didn't want to pay the amount to get it done by a white person. So you did what every business that wants to save a few bucks does. Or to look at it another way, you took advantage of an immigrants status for your benefit. Or to look at it another way yet again, you hired them because no white person wanted to do that job, you know all the jobs that illegal immigrants are "taking away" from others. Despicable.
RAS Don't mean to be politically correct since it is out of season but 47ladybug and RAS: Mexicans are members of the white race. Just have to be more specific when stereotyping.
JIT, agreed. We absolutely need an adult conversation focused on comprehensive immigration reform. Many here merge and confuse all the different immigration issues into one Mexican hating stew. Ladybug, don't take this personally except for drinking the alt right Kool-Aid that many have sampled and thought tasty. But when you say:
"Can we move all the Mexicans out of Hackettstown and build a wall ? Oh thats right,even more stores and buildings would be abandoned." You are right and that's a big part of the trade-off. Did you mention how you, all your unemployed friends and all your entrepreneurial buddies are just waiting on pins n needles to open Main Street store fronts for those vacancies.
"Everyone I'm sure is ok paying taxes for the multiple families that live in some of the homes in our town and are here illegally." Do you really think you pay taxes for these people? Do you really think they don't pay any taxes? Do you think if they were legal immigrants that they would pay more taxes? And really, do you assume that since they are Mexican, they must have multiple families per residence? Think I can show you being wrong, dead wrong, on all accounts but---- you go first.
"Before anyone says how do I know they're illegal,I've used a few of them to clean up my yard and they always requested cash not a check." Oh come on. How many legal Americans have we paid cash to? Is that really the test? Especially for piss-ant day jobs like lawn clean up.
"You want to live in this country and are here illegally,fine,pay taxes and stop sending $ back home and spend it here in the Great US of A or Gtfo." Hey, you pay less taxes than me and you keep sending all your money to China so you, in your own vernacular, "Gtfo." These illegals pay more in taxes than they receive in services. Do you?
"Especially for people who mooch off us." Actually you are doing quite a lot of mooching too. Especially mooching off illegals. You mooch at least 50% of the time you buy produce taking advantage of the undocumented. Have a glass of milk? Only 40% mooch free, you mooch maven. Your Social Security account is a giant pile of mooch being funded by billions of payments by the undocumented who will never see a dime of the money you will someday mooch off them.
"That includes those on welfare who could work but choose to be a burden to the rest of us hard working Americans." Welfare really? Maybe the kids but they are mostly American anyway.
"Make USA great again,the USA is already great,now let's clean it up and drain the swamp." Wait --- does draining the swamp involve Mexicans?
But the best --- "And how many people actually were detained during the travel ban compares to how many people leave and come to this country everyday ,it was nothing." That's the metric? Only blocked a small percentage? It was 60,000 to 90,000 people affected. That's blocking 6 to 9 Hackettstowns, that's forgoing up to 90,000 airplane ticket revenues and the associated spending in the US, that's affecting a lot of things, not just people.
"Stop whining all you so called illegal lovers,meanwhile you all call them racist names behind their backs and wouldn't want them living in your neighborhood would you? I wouldn't." What? You got a lot of liberals talking racist trash when you get together? And no, I have no issue with latino-Americans or latino's living next to me. None. Would rather everyone legal which is why we need comprehensive immigration reform, not just some stupid wall, a Muslim ban, and this economically stupid mass deportation.
Illegal immigration costs US tax payers $113 billion per year
Wall will cost $21.6B
http://www.fairus.org/publications/the-fiscal-burden-of-illegal-immigration-on-united-states-taxpayers
Those of you in business how cost is almost never an issue, its the ROI. The wall is not a net cost, its a net gain for America and American tax payers. 40% of the illegals walk across the border. -$21.6 B to reduce illegal immigration by up to 40% will be a financial positive for the country within the first year. The 20 billion in investment is necessary infrastructure to solve the 100 billion/yr problem.
This is also cheaper than the estimated $24.8 billion sent io Mexico every year and permanently leaves our economy.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/mexico-got-more-money-remittances-oil-revenues-2015-n510346
Here is my thought - its estimated we have 16.4 MM persons here illegally
That's 16.4 million "extra" people that various local/state/federal government entities have to provide with roads, policing, garbage collection, mail delivery, fire departments, health care etc. That does not even include any federal services.
Six states accounted for 59% of unauthorized immigrants in 2014: California, Texas, Florida, New York, New Jersey and Illinois
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/03/5-facts-about-illegal-immigration-in-the-u-s/
Let's not forget that we spend approximately 35 billion dollars a year on drug enforcement
http://www.drugsense.org/cms/wodclock
almost all of which comes across the Mexican border - especially in regards to heroin a HUGE problem in Hackettstown
http://www.politifact.com/ohio/statements/2016/mar/14/rob-portman/most-heroin-us-comes-over-mexican-border/
American workers are at a loss of approximately 500 BILLION dollars a year in wages displaced to the employers that hire illegal aliens.
https://youtu.be/xc9gUmxR3rc
Democrats constantly complain that we need to make more infrastructure investments. Okie Dokie - Trump proposes to build the most cost saving piece of infrastructure in American history" and you fight it.. in NJ none the less where you are effected more than most states.
47ladybug: " I do however despise people of any race that moochies (sic) off hard working AMERICAN citizens who are here legally..."
In your world ladybug, do only illegals mooch? What about all those "WHITE American" citizens who wouldn't clean your yard? RAS is right, you're just looking to take advantage of someone's immigration status for less than you'd pay a "WHITE American" to do the job. You're a hypocrite. If you want your money to go to ":WHITE Americans" then offer them a decent wage to do the job; if you're too cheap to do that...you can save all your money and do it yourself.
PS: Building a wall around YOUR house would be great -- it would keep you inside your own little bigoted world and away from those who treat ALL people as equals.
Skippy, those statistics are suspect and very debatable. Regardless, Trump's promise (over and over and over) was Mexico would pay for the wall. Are you now seeking to justify the cost to Americans? Is Trump not to be held accountable for his campaign promise?
Skippy --- I would go through your copious links except after I finished the first one, I would say you need either to check your work or get some secondary sources.
fairus.org is an interest group pushing against ALL forms and types of immigration. In it's 30-year+ history, it's leaders have been associated with the Zero Population Growth movement for example. Their very purpose for existence is to deny immigration.
Here's an example: the $113B is FAIR's gross expense. FAIR's net is $99B. So which one got to be the title?
While I might be wrong about illegals being a net plus, instead being a net deficit, your FAIR number is laughable. The Heritage Group laughs at them pitching a much lower deficit. That's because FAIR is biased.
Eric a. Ruark, director of research, is responsible for this report. He is a history major looking to complete his doctorate. After 7 years at FAIR, he moved on to numbersusa. He has a number of history reports and a few on immigration. He is a research report writer, a teacher, a student, and probably the mule behind this train. Jack Martin, director of special projects has been kicking around anti-immigration groups for years. A diplomat, I am not sure of his other talents and expect he was the guiding light and figurehead for this report.
Neither of these guys are statisticians, economists, or accountants. IMO this report, while edited to remove all the typos, probably has the same depth of research, all secondary combined with IMO-estimates, as many of our threads.
I would also expect great bias in a study from two secondary-source researches who have the stated mission to deny all forms of immigration. For example, they admit to counting every kid they can find into the equation, even American born or those dragged here by their parents. Not sure what I would do but certainly a debate in itself given they added 3.4M kids considered American. Their assumption is parents will take the kids back when deported. Guess they missed the recent visible deportation of the mother leaving two teen-age kids behind...... Actually you can't find much of the estimates or full data.
You really need to second source some of this stuff. Pants on Fire: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/sep/01/donald-trump/donald-trump-says-illegal-immigration-costs-113-bi/
However, I may be wrong about a net positive and you did show that.
Thanks I'll research - appreciate it
And yeah we're going to end up paying for it - both sides have made campaign promises they didn't or couldn't keep - how's the Gitmo closure going? Just trying to be realistic
Skippy, so weak. You suggest Obama's inability to close Gitmo is comparable to Trump's endless stream of lies and alternative facts? You're smarter than that.
As I am looking at it, there's the net positive crowd and the net negative crowd. I'll let you guess where most of those economists vote --- leftist witchcraft portrayed as science :>)
NPR goes middle of the road but notes a number of concepts: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5312900
CIS sort mirrors conservative and MSR (main stream republican) views with some positive: http://cis.org/node/4573. Borjas is one the leading economists on the subject for any side.
The Hill offers again a positive view covering many aspects often not seen in the "get em out by Friday" zealotry: http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/foreign-policy/203984-illegal-immigrants-benefit-the-us-economy
Sort of seems to balance out with --- jobs affected: yes, mostly for people without HS education taking jobs those with HS education would probably not.
welfare: sure, especially based on educating the kids so state and local
taxes: hard to say, but probably not much once you extract those who fall below the payment line on income and wouldn't pay taxes -- legal or not, lost taxes to Social Security, unemployment insurance, etc., balanced against the taxes paid.
economy: again hard to say but Borjas says once you look full stream at the bene's including the bene's to you and I for cheaper stuff, the bene's to the employers who make higher profits, and the trickle-down from illegals using their income, most of it, to buy stuff. http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/presidential-campaign/247649-no-mr-trump-mexico-is-not-killing-us-on-trade
Lasty, no on knows how much money is being sent home with ranges from $20B to $120B a year, which ought to tell you something. More important, people assume that sending money away robs us. It's a weird concept, but macroeconomics says: "Figuratively, we trade pieces of paper with green ink for real stuff."
Try a Chinese import example. We get a real new thing, they get a piece of paper. Now that paper can be used to get real new things, probably almost anywhere, because it's US coin. That's why China keeps sending us their resources for our green paper. But in the end, the only place they can redeem that green paper, is in the US. And it holds them to us because if we go away, they have nothing but paper. It's good to be economic king. So, they have my paper and I have a really nice new 2-piece suit. Excellent deal Donald.... Please don't make it stop.
Here's the remittance version: http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/08/opinions/remittances-good-for-america-sandefur/
Actually I was comparing both presidents not coming through on a campaign promise - anything else is your extrapolation.
I will read through SDs research - I don't know as much about the economics as I would like.
It just gets more complicated and interesting: http://www.learnprogress.org/admiral-releases-warning-trump/
Why would you assume that a wall would actually stop immigration? I listened to a This American Life episode the other day in which they interviewed several proTrump Border Patrol agents. This is what one of them said about one of the existing sections of wall.
"We put an 18-foot wall up. The next day, we had 19-foot ladders all over the place. It got so bad. There were just ladders everywhere-- behind the station, stacked up as high as you can reach. After a month, they said stop bringing the damn ladders in."
I'm thinking it would be best to just annex Mexico, officially make it part of the U.S., problem solved. Since that country apparently sucks so bad, we'd be doing its people a favor.
I think it's funny that FAIR anti-immigration report that Skippy referenced has a cover picture of a person scaling the border wall :>) Not exactly great PR for wall huggers.
Yeah Skippy, I am still studying the economics on this one given that there is a positive crowd and a negative crowd of experts. Many of these folks have made this a lifelong career. Not sure they all have a vested interest in a single answer. The model is large given everything from remittances to entitlements to taxes to Constitutional rights, illegal, undocumented, and so on and so on. On top of all that you need to layer the terrorism aspect.
Nonetheless I find it amazing that a closer consensus can not be achieved. I mean some of this is just math, that should be easy. The rest are assumptions, albeit some pretty complex ones given the folks being studied are off the grid. Still seems their could be a consensus with easily understood variations tied to specific assumptions.
My take: We need to stop illegal entry and figure out how to deal with illegals already here. We need to stop terrorists from entry.
Stop illegal entry: Most of these folks are coming here to work. Make E-Verify the law of the land and support it's rollout. Problem solved as well as potentially flushing out any illegals already in the system.
Stop illegal entry for non-working terrorists, rapists, murderers, kidnappers, and shoplifters.... Well, let's face it, this more about border security beyond a silly wall if you want to stop dedicated criminals focused on walking in here to raise havoc. For those criminals using immigration, create single vetting system for all entrants -- might be the one we have today. IF, and only IF, you think you need Xtreme Vetting, and remember no one really knows that we need it, go ahead and set up the process, the triggers that would throw someone into XV and apply it to all people entering the US. Perhaps make a "fast-pass" version for frequent visitors. I would like to say problem solved, but let's face it --- it's unsolvable.
Dealing with current illegals: this is the thorny one and I don't have a perfect prescription at all. At this point, IMO, we want to retain good citizens and employees so we need a path for remaining here. It would be good not to divide families. I mean a lady first coming here as a teen, 20 years or more ago, two half-merician teenagers, a husband, a clean record ---- did we really need to spend the money to deport her and destroy this family? Or might a fine or community service, whatever, be sufficient? Not necessarily citizenship, but a path for inclusion versus the cloud of deportment for solid workers and citizens.
For remittances, give me a break. We all have been sending money home ever since the first immigrant landed. My family did. Heck, we even returned home to protect family behind the lines in WWII. That's just life in the big city. Sticking with this one, yeah Skippy, the first time the "i give you paper, you give me a car" import model was explained to me, I couldn't accept it. Plus, there are certainly risks in that if someone has all your money, or a significant portion, they could more easily play monetary games with you. Given your only response might be to print more money, the effect could be devastating. But again, as the world's economic powerhouse, pretty doubtful this could happen. It's good to own the closest thing to a global dollar.
"Why would you assume that a wall would actually stop immigration?
"We put an 18-foot wall up. The next day, we had 19-foot ladders all over the place. It got so bad. "
I guess for the same reason you guys assume that passing more gun control laws will actually stop criminals from breaking the law and obtaining guns.
I agree with JR that a 19 foot wall, if you were to build a wall which is stupid, is too short. Guess that's his way of saying we need TALLER gun laws if we really want to stop those guns.
But hey, who cares. Now we can buy ghost guns without any checks and balances whatsoever. Completely untraceable. NRA has nothing to say. Probably still trying to figure out which financial supporter is making the cash off this death.
Does Trump have any actual plans for creating jobs or is his Presidency the HUGEST taxpayer expense ever? How much is the nation’s business versus the Turnip business. I mean Ivanka has not stepped back from her business and yet we see her working on behalf of the nation beside her father.
How many Whitehouse’s are American taxpayers supporting? So far, three. Summer Swamp Whitehouse, Winter Soldier Whitehouse, and that place I stick the wife and kid.
Reminds me when, as a young man, working with an off-shore client, telling him his product basically sucked for America. He kept saying "but I must take a profit of my time here...." Sure, whatever, but your product stinks. "Doesn't' matter, I must take a profit of my time here." Finally figured out the guy was a regulated entity guaranteed x% profit; he was just looking to expense his time here and could care less whether the product made money or not. Dawned on me while meeting in Miami on his rented yacht :>) Trump may not be taking a salary, but we will invest millions in hardening his multiple homes across the land.
How many taxpayer millions did it cost to send Turnip to Mar-a-Lago for a week-end in early Feb. Estimates are $3M. How much does it cost to house Melania and The Barron in The Dark Tower? Will Trump Tower and Mar-a-Lago be secured like the White House?
Heck, beyond the housing of security personel, it costs $1M a day to house Our Orange President's Son (OOP’S) in NYC. There’s a good chance that housing the Trumps in NYC will have a larger budget than the National Endowment for the Arts.
Some have claimed all Presidents do this and all Presidents get reimbursed for Secret Service rentals. Perhaps. But Joe Biden’s beach house has a rent in the thousands. Trump’s Manhattan high rise will be in the millions. No one is in Trump’s neighborhood when it comes to costs. He's the high end Manhattan price, not nowhere Delaware.
And then there’s da family. In January, Eric Trump went to Uruguay for a TrumpCo promotional trip. You paid $100,000 in Secret Service and embassy staff lodging alone to cover TrumpCo. Conflict? I dunno. Vacation: nope. This was a business trip and most of us charge expenses back to the business where we write it off against taxes. But Drumpf found a more profitable way than free. I guess if it was a Foundation it might matter more to folks.
Remember this Trumpism: “The habitual vacationer, @BarackObama, is now in Hawaii. This vacation is costing taxpayers $4 million +++ while there is 20% unemployment.” So what’s a $3M weekend at Mar A Lago.
But who cares, Trump is bringing jobs back to America.
Gun control laws have no "height" (i.e. physical barriers).
They simply rely on the *honesty* of a criminal to, for example, run background checks on the other criminals he's selling his stolen guns to and promise they will only load 7 rounds in the magazine.
I could easily break just about every gun control law on the books if I wanted to, as there is *nothing* physically stopping me from sawing off my shotgun/rifle barrel, building a silencer out of an oil can, or selling a gun to a guy with gang tattoos and a tracking collar on his ankle.
No ladders needed.
well this administration probably wont pardon you with Wane LaPierre giving advice so I wouldn't do that lol
https://bearingarms.com/jenn-j/2016/12/20/obama-grants-153-commutations-78-pardons-to-convicted-felons/
but seriously many of the gun laws on the books are completely arbitrary and easily violable with no intent ergo - oh I bought an adjustable stock for my rifle in walmart in PA and put it on but there already was a heat shield on the barrel.. wanh wanh jail.
Wait hold the phone - "ghost guns"? You mean 80% lowers for AR's you need to finish yourself? Those have always been legal and anyone with the machine shop and prerequisite tool and dye skills can make a gun - legally and apply for a BATFE serial number. Heck they make 1911s by hand in the Philippines - takes them like a month working around the clock but they do it with hand tools.. no law is going to change any of that..
Ok, so no response to the point that the proposed wall will be rendered pointless by ladders? Just more deflection, I guess.
http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2017/01/25/ladder-purchases-in-mexico-rise-by-9000/
ladder sales are up 9000% - invest in ladders! YUUUGE
The better question IMO is: If you (stated generically) were POTUS what actions would you take to enforce the immigration laws currently on the books put in place by Congress? Remember, it's the job of POTUS to enforce the law - he/she doesn't make them.
A wall has always seemed silly to me too, not just because of ladders but because it doesn't address the reasons why folks would want to climb over the wall in the first place. So how to prevent/reduce/eliminate *illegal* immigration? What is your solution?
President Trump you have been served!
https://www.yahoo.com/style/york-fashion-week-incredibly-political-slideshow-wp-190317999.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rs4leuHnJwM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KRFbOjk1x4
just gonna leave these here - I got sprinkles - just sayin
Numerous sources have confirmed that Trump's National security pick, Michael Flynn has resigned among a scandal related with his ties to Russia.
24 days in.
Among the many sources, https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/13/us/politics/donald-trump-national-security-adviser-michael-flynn.html
Let's not forget his former campaign manager, Manafort also resigned due to ties with Russia.
How long until the clown himself is forced to resign? In my opinion, It's only a matter of time.
Thee fbi was perplexed by putin's lack of response to obama's last minute sanctions. so they went digging, and listened to the phone calls of the russian ambassador that spoke on the phone with Flynn during the presidential transition period. they listened to flynn's phone call with them and noticed that he did talk about the sanctions, contrary to public reports. so they notified the white house that flynn lied and that he might be vulnerable to blackmail. of course, this was obama's fbi and cia director brennan that were bringing the trump team this info.
Shockingly enough this was leaked to the washington post by 'annonymous officials'
It's good that Flynn resigned because what he did, - both the act and the lying to VPOTUS are inexcusable
Who's next?
Acting Attorney General Sally Yates warned White House officials that incoming National Security Adviser Michael Flynn had been dishonest about the nature of his calls with Russia’s ambassador, The Washington Post reports. Flynn resigned from his post Monday evening amid the controversy. Yates, who was fired from her post in January, just hours after stating that the Department of Justice would not defend President Donald Trump’s travel ban, reportedly told officials before the inauguration that Flynn might be vulnerable to Russian blackmail. James R. Clapper Jr. and John Brennan, President Obama’s directors of national intelligence and the CIA, reportedly shared Yates’s concerns and agreed with her decision to warn the Trump administration, fearing that “Flynn had put himself in a compromising position,” the Post quotes an official as saying. Army officials are also investigating whether Flynn accepted money from the Russian government during a 2015 trip to Moscow, The New York Times reports.
Flynn is accused of discussing U.S. sanctions with Russia’s ambassador during a December phone call, in potential violation of U.S. law. Flynn initially denied the allegations and told Vice President Mike Pence that he and the ambassador had not discussed sanctions. Pence went on to repeat Flynn’s claims to the media. But multiple intelligence officials who reviewed transcripts of the conversation said Flynn explicitly addressed the sanctions during the call.
The definition of floundering...
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/02/president-trump-has-done-almost-nothing-214775
Agreed- you lie, to leave. If only BOTH political parties could be so "honest"... ahem... Benghazi...
Who's next? Who, who.......who, who.....
SCORE !!!!! As Trump takes the first hit, a sharp blow to the right....
Apparently Trump has been given a teachable moment on lying.
Benghazi ---- so say you. Unfortunately, you can't find the smoking phone call, an arch-enemy from another country, and lies, lies, lies. And you didn't say it, but I will: impeach Hillary Clinton !!!! Hillary, Hillary, Hillary ---- feel better JR?? :>) (gee, I hope this isn't seen as too snarky, mean, or rude ---- there's a thread for that....)
Now the real work begins: finding the cover up. I mean, how many, how high, when did people know the detail of the lies and assisted in the cover up.
How high does The Russian Connection go? I mean we had one guy, pretty high up, playing patsy with Putin. We have the top banana, ooops, I mean orange, with a Putin full bloom bro-fest. We have full 180's on China policy. We seemed to miss a North Korea missile launch....
Oh oh oh, much work to do. We need a Congressional investigation. Bring back Ken Starr......Wait, let's give it to Pelosi!!!!
And talk about lying ....... Trumputin maintains he has no knowledge of Flynn's resignation!! He said he has heard nothing about it.
How's THAT for being dishonest.
Flynn left because he committed a potentially criminal act of corruption, not just because he lied about it later.
You know Flynn is a democrat right ? And I'm sure all other communications have been throughly scrubbed with allegations of collusion with russia - if there was additional evidence it would be on the front page of WaPo
Flynn is not important, it's the guy who hired him that counts. And sure, there could have been criminality involved, perhaps from numerous sources. I mean, the Atty General knew for a month ---- what' s up there? Do we really think Flynn said something that didn't come out of Turnip's mouth?
Investigation !!!!
Let Trump set the record for fastest investigation. Another HUGE move!!!
Actually the real reason Flynn resigned is that he is so stupid as to use the phone to assure the Ruskies that we would do what they want and bring down the sanctions.
Imprison Trump! Skip impeachment.
"Gloria Allred, Special Prosecutor" has a nice ring to it, LOL. How entertaining would that be, to see her do to Trump what Ken Starr did to Clinton?
Let's not forget ole Teddy Kennedy's role in trying to influence an election with the help of Russia.
http://www.forbes.com/2009/08/27/ted-kennedy-soviet-union-ronald-reagan-opinions-columnists-peter-robinson.html
And who could forget the Grover Cleveland scandal?
One historical example of what can happen when a foreign power is caught trying to manipulate a presidential election is the uproar over perceived British support for Grover Cleveland in the 1888 presidential election. You might call it the snail-mail scandal of its day.
Cleveland, a Democrat, was running for re-election against former U.S. Sen. Benjamin Harrison, a Republican. Cleveland was favored to win. But he was potentially vulnerable to charges of being pro-British because he favored lower tariffs (which could help British manufacturers) and an equitable settlement of a fisheries dispute with Canada (an independent nation but a former British colony whose foreign policy the British still dominated).
The British ambassador, Lionel Sackville-West, reinforced the impression that Britain favored Cleveland.
In September, he responded to a letter from George Osgoodby, a Republican posing as Charles F. Murchison, a British expatriate who was now a naturalized American citizen. "Murchison" sought the ambassador's advice on whom to vote for in November. He emphasized that Cleveland had been "favorable and friendly" toward Britain and that naturalized citizens from Britain like himself favored Cleveland, "the one above all Americans they consider their own and their country's best friend."
Really, kb, like JR, you seek to excuse your leader's behavior with suspect examples from the past. Just won't work...this is now.
Good article explaining the hypocrisy calling for the Logan Act
http://townhall.com/columnists/robertcharles/2017/02/13/stop-the-logan-act-nonsense--respect-general-flynn-n2285299
No, it's not, skippy. None of those countries visited by Obama were under US sanctions, like Russia is. That is the difference that the author of that piece doesn't understand or has blatantly ignored.
Loved that piece Skippy. Especially "Yet they all know, for an absolute fact, this is a lot of whooped-up nonsense." How's that shoe leather taste? Did you share with the author?
IMO, Flynn is an idiot, or try totally unexperienced, out of his depth and operating above his pay grade. Trump hired him and is in exactly the same boat whether in person or through responsibility for not knowing either.
This was probably blatant stupidity with Flynn trying to snuggle up to the Ruskies, on behalf of Trump who has made it his mission to Putin-partner for some really strange reason. Good enough for Flynn to resign and probably won't go farther.
But given Trump's love affair, given his 180 on China, given his wife, I mean first lady, I mean daughter hasn't quit her day job and is working in Trump's most inner circle. And given his lack of financial disclosures, possible financial ties to Russia, and constant lying about everything ------ good to press on with the investigation. Plenty of snakes under those rocks and it's only week 4. Subpoena Bannon. et's find out who they've been sleeping with.
lol - I don't know. He was an LTG with 30 years experience and more importantly experience in the intel sector. He definitely should have known better - doubtful there will be any charges though
So as I came home from work I asked my son if he took the garbage out. He said yes. I went upstairs and the kitchen garbage can was full. I went back downstairs and confronted him. He apologized "for inadvertently briefing me with incomplete information."
This administration has invented two new classic euphemisms for lying. The one above, still not quite as remarkable as "alternative facts".
The SS Trump is leaking badly...
Sorry Yankeefan, I am not trying to make any excuses for anyone, just trying to show that this has happened many times in the past and the hypocrisy from both sides. By the way, I believe Flynn was not the right person for the job in the first place.
Flynn gave Russia privileged strategic information and then lied about it. I am not buying the incompetence angle. I am happy to see him go. I think this demonstrates good decision making on Trumps part. Its's not uncommon for advisors and cabinet picks to be let go early on into a presidency. we all remember the kinks in Obama's cabinet when he first came into office. Several were forced to resign in the first year for very controversial actions.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/takes-fired-obama-administration/story?id=20684401
Obama almost fired Biden a couple of times.
Good decision making, indeed. Fire him as soon as he gets caught.Thank you MSM for exposing Flynn's illegal acts and attemped cover- up. Trump was informed of this weeks ago. By Sally Yates, the acting AG he fired. No kudo to Trump here.
oh I know - but he can make him go sit in a corner - remember when Biden put Obama on front street about gay marriage?
Skippy: I have to give Flynn the benefit of the doubt that he's just inexperienced in this new role. Otherwise I have to assume he's either evil or a flippin bloomin idiot of epic proportions. Which apparently is what his inexperience looks like.
I mean....if he was this intelligent man from the world of intelligence, didn't he think the phone was tapped? I mean everything overseas is surveilled. If it's digital, and it all is, there's a chance that even domestic stuff goes over the ocean and back. Most certainly your domestic email does. All listened too.
And that's just the engine in a very long freight train of really stupid things to do.
The investigation must discover the surrounding elements. Like how could Flynn know the sanctions were going to be dropped. And why would he mention it? Was anything gained? Personal? Trumpable? Who was on the other line: Pooty? And is Bannon just Barron with longer letters?
I'm in good company then YF - don't get angry at me I'm a schlub on the internet of course I have no credibility
I get you SD but I don't think he should get a pass because of inexperience - children know that lying makes things worse ala the cherry tree fable.
I'm sure he knew the phone was tapped but figured he was untouchable- he was a democrati that gave a speech at the RNC.
There definitely needs to be an investigation because there needs to be no ambiguity- guilty parties need to be punished and the innocent exhonotated - I'm just dumbfounded that a guy threw away 30 years of service over something stupid
Tell you what John Oliver has some funny videos up you guys would like https://youtu.be/xecEV4dSAXE
Wait a minute.... is SD actually DEFENDING Flynn? A member of Trump's cabinet?!?!?!? Has the world gone topsy-turvy?
OOOOhhhh....... wait. He's a democrat. My bad.
Flynn resigned to protect Pence and in effect Trump.
Pence lied to the entire country on national TV. He could have either deliberately lied to cover Flynn's butt, or have lied because he was lied to.
To the left, and probably to Trump, Pence is an insurance policy. He's far reaching crazy Christian beliefs make him the worst nightmares of the godless left. I think Trump picked him, at least in part, so that no one on the Left would want to dump Trump and pick up Pence in the top spot.
Flynn resigned to allow Pence to continue to serve and help insulation Trump from his inevitable impeachment.
But much like bridgegate, the guy who takes the fall is not the guy giving the orders. It's just a shame people won't stand up for what's right even when it means treason.
Arguably Indiana's "religious freedom" law. (Lets note that an amendment later squashed most of the issues with this)
And then there's this. http://www.mediaite.com/online/wait-what-did-mike-pence-really-sign-a-law-requiring-funerals-for-fetuses/ which isn't exactly what it often gets written up as, as that article states, but it's a way of imposing his reglious views on others by making it financially hard to do otherwise - a typically republican move - just like voter suppression efforts.
And his quote: "I'm a Christian, a conservative, and a Republican, in that order.". While there's nothing wrong with being christian - I was raised catholic myself - Pence has repeatedly walks the line between church and state. He's a christian extremist.
And for a leftist, I'm pro-birth. I'd say pro-life generally but I'm pro death penalty - I believe you have the right to life until you abuse it and some people surrender those rights with their actions.
He also believes in intelligent design, he cut indiana's corporate tax rate while blocking prevailing wage in construction projects and removing local raws requiring higher than federal minimum wage.
He has no backbone at all either. He's deleted tweets where he called Trump's muslim ban unconstitutional and has gone back on many statements (I guess he's somewhat allowed, it is politics) bashing Trumpet.
My bet is it'll come out that pence has a mistress. Or enjoys kiddie porn, or tweets his dong to teenagers (any bets?) It's always the family values folks that have the dirtiest secrets and this guy is just plain scum.
lol the maniacal right kid Tweeter - he does what he's told - he is lock step with the administration
No surprise - here's more: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/14/us/politics/russia-intelligence-communications-trump.html
a1b, alot of the charges you level against Pence you put a qualifier on i.e. deleting tweets is political, the amendment on the religious freedom law, it's really NOT a 'funeral for fetuses' but a law that required the health care facilities to bury or cremate aborted or miscarried fetuses.
and intelligent design? doesn't that sorta come with being Christian, a belief in a 'God' or whatever label you choose to put on a creative intelligence? seems like Pence is with 89% of Americans on that point:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/193271/americans-believe-god.aspx
He's anti-abortion and so are you. You admit there's nothing wrong with being a Christian.
But yet you imagine him watching kiddie porn and call him scum?? wut?
If it wasn't for your last paragraph, it seems to me you don't think he's that bad. That last paragraph is text book "politics of personal destruction". http://www.conservapedia.com/Politics_of_personal_destruction
I think we agree the line between church and state needs to be solid and I'll go one step further in saying the government cannot impose religious doctrine upon the citizenry (which I think most people would agree with) but also the government cannot force people to engage in activities against their personal religious beliefs (which less people seem to agree with, especially those on the left).
Scottso --- you say the government cannot impose religious doctrine upon the citizens.
Yet Pence would do this.
Pence is the embodiment of Christian fanaticism.
He is dangerous.
If you are truly unaware of this, here is something from Religion and Politics you can read.
http://religionandpolitics.org/2016/10/10/the-christian-worldview-of-mike-pence
Pence is an oddball. I should rephrase - his politics are scum. I think he comes off, personally, as a pretty decent guy, but politically is too extreme. I don't think I could ever vote for him. Think of it like taking a friend out for a drink, but not wanting to recommend them to your boss because you think he's foul everything up.
He seems to be very anti-worker, but pro birth/pro life, and pro-business. Yet he crawled in bed with a man who is decidedly not a christian and clearly doesn't believe all men are equal. That's a pretty bad betrayal of your faith for a promotion.
I'll also elaborate, on being ant-abortion, I recognize that it will likely not go away, is sometimes/rarely medically necessary, so while I'm personally against it, politically I'm for, accessible (legal), safe and most importantly - rare - which means doing everything possible to prevent that situation from occurring.
I say I suspect he's got some dirty secret because I find hypocrisy hits the extreme in politics especially in morality and while I'm a biased, especially from the GOP. To me, it's not a matter of hoping something like that, I just think the odds favor it.
For example: You have a pro-birth GOP who wants to make something like abortion as difficult as possible, if they can't make it illegal - but then wants to defund planned parenthood and other providers who grant access to healthcare and family planning, and restrict access to birth control through health insurance and then cut services like welfare that act as support systems to those who have kids when they can't afford to. If you don't want something, you should do everything you can to prevent it, but that's just what I would call common sense.
"... but then wants to defund planned parenthood and other providers who grant access to healthcare and family planning"
uh.... not so much.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16BsBCSisrw
I'd wager if you took abortion out of the equation, and had PP offer ONLY family planning and prenatal care but NO ABORTIONS, that the majority of people would have no problem using federal funding. I know I wouldn't.
The train wreck continues...
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2017/02/kellyanne_conway_s_clarifying_response_to_the_flynn_debacle.html
Looks like soon we should all be able to read this...
Make America Здорово Again!
Thanks happiest girl, I read it. Nothing struck me as dangerous or the "embodiment of Christian fanaticism", but that's cool if you see it otherwise.
Personally, I see nothing wrong with people having moral beliefs (rules that govern which actions are right and which are wrong) and attempting to legislate in a way consistent to them. This great country of ours was founded on a moral belief you know? "...all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights"
moral beliefs do not equal religious doctrine, although I understand why people confuse the two.
"Wait a minute.... is SD actually DEFENDING"
Defending, smending. Democrat -- who cares.... Let me clarify. I would be willing to give Flynn the mulligan on THE ACT due to inexperience. However, that was just the beginning of Flynn's misdeeds and what looks to be an administration cover up of alleged wrongdoings by a number of people.
Flynn did not fall on his sword, he serves at the pleasure and carrot top was no longer pleased. His chance of going for innocent looked very slim. The only other thing he could do is implicate others and, really, is he going to end his wavering career for that (especially since he probably thinks he was doing the right thing)?
As far as Pence. First, based on his record in Indiana, he was probably not going to be re-elected. Need we say more? Second, what has happened to my Irish Catholic brother of the Democratic faith? Takes the glow off St. Pats :>) But that's not what happened. Mike left the brothers and went evangelical. He left the Democratic church. He is lost to me :>) You think I am kidding? What do you think the Roman Catholic Democratic Pence family thinks of Mike's conversion?
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/21/us/politics/mike-pence-religion.html?_r=0
It is what it is, his policies and statements speak for themselves. There is little doubt, never has been, that left unchecked, Pence would take every action possible to make evangelism the law of the land whenever he could.
As far as who Pence really is, I have posted pictures before. He's that evil German guy who turns up in the old WWII and Bond type flicks. I swear it's true.
For those interested in Pence's voting record...it may become very relevant over the next few months.
http://votesmart.org/candidate/key-votes/34024/mike-pence#.WKRlS2_yupo
scottso --
The issue is "separation of religion and state".
So you don't believe in that?
The news just showed Trump, going into the Whitehouse, with a bunch of "retail CEOs ". What could they be discussing, that's so secretive? He was meeting with foreign leaders, in a crowded eating area, with the public and all their phones on, he didn't care about privacy issues Oh, that's right. His businesses are far more important than the rest of the country. I'll bet he's making financial deals, with them, in order for these stores to carry all the Trump crap, made in China. Showing his true colors. His businesses come first." Period"... as Trump would say.
And yet you scrolled all the way to the bottom and posted your two cents that was devoid of anything even remotely resembling an intelligent thought. But at least you kept it under 140 characters. Leon Trumpsky would be proud of you.
SD, After reading about Pence's religious conversion, I am even more impressed with him and a country that elected him..I am singing to myself because no one would want to here me sing. God bless America, Land that I love. Stand beside her and guide her...
...through the night with the Light from above".
I'm right behind you, Old Gent.
Spring Fever From the mountains to the prairies to the oceans white with foam -take it Kate Smith
justwondering sparksjbc1964, the meeting Trump had with the Retail CEOs was actually good thing.
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/02/15/border-adjustment-retailers-tell-trump-about-risky-and-unproven-tax.html
Jim L Wonder how many President Trump threads there will be over the cousre of eight years...
Deplorable Me I was thinking the same thing. People are pathetic. Everything this guy does is put under a high powered microscope. If he did some of the things past presidents have done, he'd be getting impeached.
High powered microscope? You don't even need a pair of reading glasses from Walmart to see what train wreck this guy is.
"If he did some of the things past presidents have done, he'd be getting impeached." What, like releasing his tax returns? You're probably right for once, lol...
Please explain how he's a train wreck ianimal. Enlighten us with your left wing wisdom.
I find it comical that metsman still defends the guy that can't even hit close to the Mendoza line during his "honeymoon period". If metsman can't see the trainwreck then metsman should never dispute ball and strike calls again.
Trump is worse than a train wreck waiting to happen. It already has happened.. Trump from his primary wins to the election and now less than 20 days into his term he has proven to be totally disorganized and merely appealed to the far right lead by Bannon and his team who thought they could control him. Trump's tweets and use of a unsecured phone prove he is not ready for prime time. Alternative facts, Flynn, Russia and the attacks on SS and Medicare and more fiasco's to follow. He has the worst approval rating of any new President according to Fox and other polling sources. He cannot deliver on his promises and so many will be disappointed.
If anyone believes otherwise provide factual evidence rather than insults and attacks. Hopefully things will turn around for Trump as the country has a lot at stake but for now we are in trouble and most of his and the administration's wounds are self inflicted. Leading republicans in Congress will have no choice but to rein him in and protect the interests of the USA.
Less than a month... give... me... a... break... You cannot call a guy a trainwreck after a few weeks.
Ok. Not a trainwreck. An unmitigated disaster. In 20 days. And quite possibly before he took the oath. Or before he won the primary. Drip, drip, drip...
We have seen what Trump is like for a long time, not just a few weeks.
From the NYT: Gen. Tony Thomas, head of the military’s Special Operations Command, expressed concern about upheaval inside the White House. “Our government continues to be in unbelievable turmoil. I hope they sort it out soon because we’re a nation at war,” he said at a military conference on Tuesday.
Asked about his comments later, General Thomas said in a brief interview, “As a commander, I’m concerned our government be as stable as possible.”
Yes, let's hope they sort it out soon.
I think you all are going to have a coronary!
Remember, the President CANNOT make laws. All he can do is enforce them (or not) as he sees fit. Sure, we are used to Obama creating EO's to prevent enforcement of displeasing laws and Bush giving himself more authority in order to enforce laws. What has Trump tried to do? Um, enforce laws.
Like I've said before, he may be a (fill in your prefered derogatory name here) but his actions will be checked by the other two branches. And if those two branches fail in their duties I'm sure that you all will get all hot and bothered about them too ;-)
WE'RE GONNA NEED A BIGGER WALL!
Medieval-style drugs catapult found on US-Mexico border
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38986804
lmao
JIT, thanks for the civics lesson. You are correct, he isn't making laws. But he sure seems to be breaking them. As is the circle of sycophants surrounding him. Drip, drip, drip. You can float above the fray or not. Your choice, of course. I find the Russian connection disturbing and dangerous For the country...party affiliation is irrelevant. Innocent or guilty, let's find out what we're dealing with. Very difficult to move forward until we do.
Trump is a moron. He's not a good businessman, he's a good showman. He's a scam artist and his biggest scam was on you, the conservatives. Hell, any one of you is likely more qualified to run this country than him. I'd rather vote JeffersonRep into office (I really do mean that in the nicest way possible JR).
Those of you who think he's doing great. Fine, enjoy your little world. It's going to come crashing down on you soon.
JIT: Presidents can't make laws but they can enforce and twist existing laws into new meanings and set precedents through court battles on their orders, or lack there of court battles. The most dangerous thing about Trump is the almost the entire congressional GOP has decided they will go with Trump (for now at least), and destroy any barrier (like Ethics committees, judges, etc) that get in their way. Checks and balances are as good as dead for now. I don't know about anyone else, but I am all hot and bothered that literally every layer of government that has lawmaking power over me, is red.
As for how many threads. First he's not getting 8 years. I will put money on that. He'll be lucky to make it to 2018. And second, as he is the easily one of the top 3 dangerous people on the planet, and controlled by another one of the top 3. We will not rest until he is placed in a small padded room in a straight jacket, with all of his comrades and it just an orange stain on a great country's history.
Just curious, would anyone want to do an anonymous survey of HL'ers, demographics, politics, beliefs and votes. I'm really curious to see if the demographics of this forum and views match the results of the election.
a1b, I'm simply suggesting that, if the most vocal among us truly want to see a difference, there should be just as much passion directed toward our legislators (more, actually, as they write the documents that the Executinve has power to address).
So imo most of the negativity is misguided.
And the whole Russian thing is borderline craziness. Top-heavy on emotional speculation and light on proof of wrong doing. I get that we've been programmed socially to *need* an enemy (in the world of politics as well) and that Russia is the current target. Fine. Just stop with the accusations and get right to the proof of nefarious intent.
"And the whole Russian thing is borderline craziness. Top-heavy on emotional speculation and light on proof of wrong doing." ------ justintime
LOL !! Let us know when you see the light !!
Really, anyone that keeps denying the facts is just as much a lier as Trumputin.
It's just unbelievable that anyone would still support him.
Shamu! El Jefe! Chris Christie! will be brought in to replace Reince Priebus and get things under control. Does seem like amateur hour over there, but how could it be any other way when we elect non-politicians? Understandable. They never should have let Flynn resign, rookie mistake (on the White House's part), he didn't break any laws - simply a political hit job from the left. First of many. Got to be able to put those lefties in their place and stop leaks in your own house and from the intelligence bureaucrats - I think Christie would be awesome in that kind of role, the role of the 'enforcer'.
BTW, never knew that Reince is a local boy, born in Dover NJ. Neat.
"And the whole Russian thing is borderline craziness."
I know those of us who railed against Obama for 8 years must have sounded crazy at times, but the onslaught of ludicrosity (I just made that word up) against Trump has been beyond belief. If Obama-haters were crazy, Trump haters are completely off their nut, foaming-at-the-mouth with rabid hate.
A friend posted this on FB, I thought it quite apt.
"I'm very amused, especially the last several weeks. I've been reading both conservative and liberal news publications just to see their spin on things. I've come to the conclusion that our country is bipolar and schizophrenic. There must be parallel universes where there are alternate truths and people get to choose the truth they believe.
The stories all contain a grain of truth, some spin on the evidence, a stretching of the facts, and a conclusion based on inferences that are not reasonable or don't make sense.
You would think someone wants liberals and conservatives to not like each other."
And I have, in the past, fallen for it. DeplorableGirl has fallen HARD, as have a few others. Things aren't getting better, they are getting worse... not because Hillary lost or because Trump won, but because the populace (well, the ones who post on forums and FB anyway) have allowed themselves to be played like a fiddle, worked up into a lather, and had the wool pulled over their eyes... outrage and hatred are the new liberal du' jour, since Trump won. It's like these people think "if you aren't hating, you don't matter" or something. It's more than sad- it's scary.
And it's nothing new- it's just been worked to a fever pitch that hasn't been seen in a long time. My prediction: as (IF) the economy improves, and people feel safer as time passes, as the "silent majority" (those who do NOT post on forums and FB) see the new administration is making things better (IF), this will all die down, except for the few loud DeplorableGirls out there- MSM will even have to calm down on it (like they did when it became obvious Trump was going to win), as MANUFACTURING "truth" doesn't work anymore- as Trump's election against all odds has proven. There will always be squeaky wheels" (I remember the anti-Bush-war protests right here in Hackettstown during Bush's EIGHT-YEAR run), but as (IF) the country improves, they will be heard less and less, until the next election cycle starts.
The ironic part is, these extreme progressive leftists aren't doing themselves any favors: they are actually helping to destroy their own party, something they predicted would happen to the republican party with Trump running/winning.
I've posted examples in the past of democrats trying to get through to their own party on this, and here's another:
Jim Webb: "this is not my father's democratic party"
http://canadafreepress.com/article/jim-webb-has-figured-out-why-democrats-are-losing-so-badly.-...heres-why-th#
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/11/15/jim-webb-white-working-class-voters-dont-think-democrats-like-them.html
For those who wish to make their positions known to their elected representatives:
Booker, Cory A. - (D - NJ) Class II
359 Dirksen Senate Office Building Washington DC 20510
(202) 224-3224
Contact: www.booker.senate.gov/?p=contact
Menendez, Robert - (D - NJ) Class I
528 Hart Senate Office Building Washington DC 20510
(202) 224-4744
Contact: www.menendez.senate.gov/contact
U.S. Congressman Josh Gottheimer
213 Cannon House Office Building
Washington DC 20515
Phone 202-225-4465
Website https://gottheimer.house.gov
Thank God it is not my father's Democratic party; he would hate that.
Jr: amazingly it only takes the rabid right to determine how broken the Democrats are :>) I loved the "among the rabid lefties that run the party." Gee, Hillary is rabid lefty? Good Kool-Aid?
Sure, the party could swing far left. Don't think it would have changed this election. It hasn't thus far but that didn't help for this election. Should we have seen it? Sure, but let's face it ---- Trumpism knocked out a whole bunch of people who could say that, mostly conservatives.
Can we correct. Sure. I mean we have a great example of what happens when you swing far from center, away from experience, and into the unknown. That should be enough to convince Dems to stay the center course and avoid the extremes.
Meanwhile.....
IVANKA --- Lock Her Up.
Former CIA Analyst:
Former Obama Officials Were 'Directly Involved' In The Effort To Remove Flynn
"Risk and Reward" host Deirdre Bolton asked Shaffer whether he thought leaks from the Obama administration were "the problem."
"Absolutely," Shaffer answered, saying the Obama administration was "directly involved" with the leak. Shaffer said the blame lay "squarely at the feet of" the former CIA director John Brennan, former director of National Intelligence Jim Clapper, and former deputy national security advisor Ben Rhodes."
https://youtu.be/LaYu-RXB4hU
Is that the same Ben Rhodes that worked with the CIA to come up with the talking points (Lies) on the Benghazi debacle.
Well, if an "ex-CIA analyst" who hasn't been on the public payroll since the Bush administration "believes" it, then it must be true, lol.
So Flynn was not fired because of an erosion of trust within the administration, but instead it was that his bad behavior was leaked?
If you had to pick one or the other, which would you believe causes more potential danger to OUR country?
The fact that information was leaked or
The information contained in the leaks?
Well both - Flynn shouldn't have lied and there should not have been a leak to the press.
If you're going to go with the information in the leak out weighs the distribution method you're changing your stripes as to the DNC and Clinton email breach
Flynn was fired for either lying or being incompetent - either way he couldn't continue
"If you're going to go with the information in the leak out weighs the distribution method you're changing your stripes as to the DNC and Clinton email breach"
Exactly.
Flynn didn't do anything against the law. Whoever leaked the intercepted calls did.
"Flynn didn't do anything against the law." ------ scottso
LOL
He violated the Logan Act.
He can get up to 3 years in prison for that felony.
"LOL
He violated the Logan Act.
He can get up to 3 years in prison for that felony."
And Hillary committed perjury...also a felony. And she's not going to prison either. "LOL"
You sure about that, Deplorable girl?
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/02/15/515437291/intelligence-official-transcripts-of-flynns-calls-dont-show-criminal-wrongdoing
NPR- trusted liberal source since... forever "LOL"
Flynn did nothing that will result in charges, whoever leaked the intercepted calls did.
Is that better HG?
We don't know yet what will result in terms of charges. And if he lied to the FBI it could result in a felony charge.
That was even in the article JR posted .... lol.
Too bad the little boy JR still has to call people names to make him feel big about himself. Pitiful.
"Too bad the little boy JR still has to call people names to make him feel big about himself."
The irony is astounding...
I don't think he was even interviewed by an 1811 in any capacity- it was just reported to the administration and they took action.
The same people whining about the electoral college are quoting a law from 1799. How ironic.
"Too bad the little boy JR still has to call people names to make him feel big about himself."
I'm not calling you names- I've renamed you, based on your opinion that "that's what you get if you vote for Trump" regarding the man who was kidnapped, beaten, and tortured by anti-Trumpers. I won't bother to dig back in the threads to find your exact quote- we all know you said it. You are, indeed, a deplorable person for holding that opinion. I don't care what "side" you are on.
skippy -
He was investigated by the FBI.
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/319512-flynn-was-interviewed-by-fbi-shortly-after-trump-took-office-report
Well if he lied to a federal agent then he will be charged - they knew about this for some time though - guess we shall see. I don't know enough about it
JR -
I don't condone violence of any kind against any person. I said we are now suffering the consequences of Trump being elected. I was stating a fact, not condoning violence.
Grow up.
"The president is unhinged" --RAS
He sure is -- did you just see that "interview" he gave?
OMG
The consequences? You apprentices of the alt left are funny. I can hear Emperor Hillary calling out to you now… “Every single Trump cabinet member must be destroyed… do not be hesitant… show no mercy… let the dark side flow through you…”
FBI clears Flynn of lying to the FBI and no charges will be filed.
http://nypost.com/2017/01/24/fbi-clears-michael-flynn-in-probe-linking-him-to-russia/
NBC reports NO COLLUSION found between Trump and Russia.
NBC's Pete Williams reports (as we have all along) that investigators have found no collusion between Trump campaign and contacts in Russia.
— Tom Winter (@Tom_Winter) February 15, 2017
NPR backtracks and says nothing illegal took place during the Flynn/Russian phone calls.
http://www.npr.org/2017/02/11/514650911/national-security-adviser-flynn-reportedly-talked-with-russian-ambassador
Chaffetz asked for the DOJ now under Sessions to put the IG on the leaks.
http://thehill.com/homenews/house/319814-chaffetz-asks-justice-inspector-general-to-investigate-flynn-leaks
who leaked?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/national-security-adviser-flynn-discussed-sanctions-with-russian-ambassador-despite-denials-officials-say/2017/02/09/f85b29d6-ee11-11e6-b4ff-ac2cf509efe5_story.html?utm_term=.a35cc777c185
"Nine current and former officials, who were in senior positions at multiple agencies at the time of the calls" - Obama was still president so his appointees are the sources.
A sitting President on the way out of office used national intelligence agencies to spy on and undermine his successor and his administration. So yes - I sincerely hope there is an investigation and a public trial.
BTW the wiretap is totally legal - in 2007, Bush pushed for an amendment to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA). called the “Protect America Act of 2007.” The Act changed the law to require only one party of a conversation to be located overseas. Also if a conversation between two Americans takes place within U.S. borders, but goes through a foreign router or switch the NSA has that conversation too. So Flynn’s conversation with a Russian Ambassador was perfectly in line with the regulations of FISA and I am sure he did or should have known that.
"The same people whining about the electoral college are quoting a law from 1799. How ironic."
The 2nd Amendment's pretty old and while I don't remember your specific view on that, I'm willing to wager you think that's pretty relevant.
MB "I'm willing to wager you think that's pretty relevant."
We've all been pretty steadfast in saying that laws should be enforced, and rights protected, as written. Not picking and choosing (or twisting) depending on which way the social winds are blowing.
If someone violates the Logan Act, hold them accountable. At least the Second Amendment gets used every day by millions of people. The Logan Act has almost been used once in over 200 years.
Excellent press conference he had. It's great because CNN and all that other lib news has to cover it now that he's POTUS, and unfortunately for them there viewers can actually listen to some real news. Not the fake news there spewing everywhere haha.
Forcefed4door Funny quotes from today's press conference!
"The news is fake because so much of the news is fake."
"So here’s the story, folks. Number one, I am the least anti- Semitic person that you’ve ever seen in your entire life. Number two, racism, the least racist person."
"I’m not ranting and raving. I’m just telling you. You know, you’re dishonest people."
Asking a black reporter about the black congressional caucus: "‘Are they friends of yours?’"
"Lots of things are done with uranium, including some bad things"
New study shows the wall could pay for itself in saved taxpayer dollars:
tidbits:
"If a border wall along the Mexican border stops only a fraction of illegal immigrants, taxpayers could save more money than the barrier would cost, according to a study released Thursday.
The Center for Immigration Studies, a Washington think tank that favors stricter border control, crunched figures from last year’s landmark report on the costs and benefits of immigration conducted by National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine.
the Center for Immigration Studies estimated that on average, every person who crosses the southwest border illegally costs taxpayers at all levels $74,722 more than he pays in taxes over the course of his life.
If a wall were to stop between 160,000 to 200,000 illegal crossers over a decade — just 9 percent to 12 percent of the projected total — the savings over their lifetimes would equal the estimated $12 billion to $15 billion cost of the wall."
The article has links to the actual study and reports.
http://www.lifezette.com/polizette/shock-study-trumps-wall-can-pay/?utm_content=buffer0e4d2&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=laura_ingraham_buffer
Can one of the Trump acolytes please explain to me why polluting our drinking water is a good thing?
Sorry, but did Trump say he wanted to pollute the water? Missed that one...
Or are you assuming that fewer regs will lead to that result?
I'm just guessing, but he's probably talking about the lifted anti-coal industry regulations?
Or maybe this:
"Congress introduces one-sentence bill to terminate the EPA": lol
http://www.sarahpalin.com/gop-introduces-one-sentence-bill-absolutely-perfect/
Look, as overbearing and ridiculous as the EPA has become, even *I* don't think it needs to be completely eliminated... just flushed down the toilet and revamped with some common sense instead of statist PC dogma it has become. But you gotta' admit... that's funny! One sentence!
Why stop with water? Let's dismantle the entire EPA.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/02/donald-trump-plans-to-abolish-environmental-protection-agency
How can anyone watch that side show train wreck and come away thinking our country is in good hands? I had to watch through fingers covering my eyes.
He is a global embarrassment.
He signed an EO yesterday specifically overturning an Obama regulation that prohibited coal mine runoff into streams.
And thishttp://blog.humanesociety.org/wayne/2017/02/help-stop-congress-cruelty-wolves-grizzlies-alaska.html
Blackcat Times Op-Ed by David Brooks:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/17/opinion/what-a-failed-trump-administration-looks-like.html?&moduleDetail=section-news-2&action=click&contentCollection=Opinion®ion=Footer&module=MoreInSection&version=WhatsNext&contentID=WhatsNext&pgtype=article
"He signed an EO yesterday specifically overturning an Obama regulation that prohibited coal mine runoff into streams."
Oh, heard talk about that a while ago.
Anyone have a link to the original EO as well as Trumps?
Obama's: https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2016/12/20/2016-29958/stream-protection-rule
Trump's: https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2017/02/16/president-trump-putting-coal-country-back-work
Don't think full text of Trump's EO has been publicly released yet.
Did anyone ever stop to think, that Trump wants the wall, to keep his golf course, resorts, ect. staff, from escaping?
A snippet from today's New York Times: Taking a room of reporters and the television audience on a journey through the Trump psyche, the president was at times angry (at the news media), playful (“I love this,”) bewildered (by “bias and hatred”), occasionally respectful (“It’s a great honor to be with you”) and needy (“I’m really not a bad person, by the way”).
Ever the salesman, Mr. Trump painted his presidency as he wishes it to be: an Electoral College victory so massive it was historic — a falsehood pointed out by a reporter in the room — plus accomplishments in the first four weeks that have outpaced, he said, every other president.
Thanks Sycamore.
Just a clarification, Trump didn't sign an EO about this. House resolution H.J. Res. 38 was passed by both the House and Senate with majority votes (not sure if anyone crossed party lines) and he rubber stamped it.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-joint-resolution/38/actions
Note that Obama's regulation only took effect on Jan. 19, the day before Trump became president.
"Note that Obama's regulation only took effect on Jan. 19, the day before Trump became president."
So, effectively, it didn't take effect at all LOL
Does seem weird, signing a piece of legislation specifically dated to take effect the day before the new president takes over.
So Mr. Trump has registered for re-election and is holding his first 2020 campaign rally in Florida tomorrow! Yes, it's true. I guess now that his administration is running like a "fine-tuned machine".....
President's weekly address.
Yay coal miners and yay women!
https://www.facebook.com/WhiteHouse/videos/1226385200782544
(starts about the 5 minute mark)
House Oversight Chairman Chaffetz refers Bryan Pagliano to DOJ for charges for failure to appear under subpoena
https://oversight.house.gov/release/chaffetz-asks-justice-department-uphold-institutional-interests-congress/
This guy got an immunity deal and had no reason to avoid showing up to face Congress when subpoenaed. Twice...
Chaffetz is making good on his threats during the Hillary probe, which could mean we may see some perjury charges brought against Clinton for lying under oath to Congress. Take note - even if you work for Hillary when you get subpoenaed to appear before the house oversight committee you don't get to just not show up.
Any conjecture as to over/under and the odds on number of days before they find Pagliano dead because of a heart attack/weight lifting accident/mugging/unfortunate bagel buttering accident?
http://nypost.com/2016/06/23/ex-un-general-assembly-chief-dies-amid-bribery-scandal/
and exercise bands as well
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/04/08/harry-reid-changes-his-story-on-how-he-sustained-new-years-day-injuries/
and go.. bring on the false equivalencies about Trumps taxes and businesses
History, Skipper. And an obvious attempt to distract from Russian connection investigations. By a well known publicity whore.
Are you really in that bad a way that you keep having to drag Hillary back from her political grave to feel better?
YF? roflmao
I particularly like the term "history" being used to write-off everything that isn't happening today to be irrelevant. I can't wait to start using that little ditty in future posts.
Trump said "grab 'em by the p*ssy"... HISTORY.
Trump bankrupted yada yada yada ... HISTORY.
Trump put CNN in the corner...HISTORY.
You know what's not history? Trump is the President of the United States.
Every. Single. Day.
But for Jr, Hillary is not history, Benghazi is everyday and Whitewater is only yesterday.
"You know what's not history? Trump is the President of the United States.
Every. Single. Day."
That's right, and is why Trump, not Hillary, is the subject of this thread. We're all very much aware that Trump is President every single day.
Thanks to Trump and the repubs controlling Congress if you know anyone living in WV tell them not to drink the water and move out before it is to late. Folks on the east coast can now look forward to increased air pollution because of new coal production and usage.
Not likely there will be much more coal. Natural gas is cheaper and plentiful. Wind power is on the upswing, etc.
Just because they voted Trump, it does not mean they voted coal. Most coal miners would rather do something, anything else.
And if they did vote coal, they're idiots to believe Trump will bring coal back. Its a scam. Can't even export the stuff.
And if he does bring coal back, they're idiots to think jobs are coming back. Coal jobs started plummeting in the 70's. By 2000 they were already gone.
Ok that makes more sense
Coal is beyond dead - in fact we're going to pay a huge amount here in NC to clean up progress energies coal ash issue
https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.nytimes.com/2016/11/16/opinion/the-coal-industry-isnt-coming-back.amp.html
As an issue, I think what's important is to note Turnips style for fake news and low risk success. Promise coal = great press. Can't deliver, twitter bomb someone else = great press. Deliver big time and you still haven't delivered many jobs but can claim you doubled them = great press.
Just another Trump flim-flam for the suckers.
"And if they did vote coal, they're idiots to believe Trump will bring coal back. Its a scam. Can't even export the stuff."
http://www.eia.gov/coal/production/quarterly/pdf/t7p01p1.pdf
apparently some body is buying it, or did you miss this googleman
SD = fake press
Ha ha googleman. That's funnyman. Is 40m tons even a big number? You showed us how fast its shrinking. Thanks for proving my point. Hey, if you voted Trump for coal, so be it. Not gonna happen. Never would. Keep believing the fake news world leader.
WV made their decision and now everyone else will have to pay for it. Polluted air, waterways, sick kids etc................I know economic realities will prevent the full return to coal but the WV folks think Trump will bring it back. Trump and his cabinet pick will destroy the EPA returning us to the 50's and 60's time of pollution. Unless Trump is stopped we will all be using masks like they do in China as the air will be unhealthy. The air will be unclean and water will be undrinkable all because Trump put short term business interests ahead of the people.
You know what's not history? We're paying for secret service protection, for his daughter, while she travels to Dubai, to open a new Trump golf course. Let "her" company foot the bill, if she's not on government business. I knew somehow, he was going to use government, money to benefit his companies. And lthis is only the beginning....
"Can't even export the stuff."
You words not mine.
Export
verb (used with object)
1.
to ship (commodities) to other countries or places for sale, exchange, etc.
Dangerously incompetent....
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/02/trump-has-no-foreign-policy-214797
Fyi sparks- It is the responsibility of the US Secret Service to provide protection to the sitting Presidents children. ALL of them. No matter where they are. Obamas girls and Bushes girls and every President before them since the early 1900's. Everybody knows that, learned it in school.
auntiel Congress to investigate Soros and his many organizations, receiving US money and interfering in politics of other countries....
http://www.youngcons.com/congress-looking-into-u-s-money-going-to-george-soros-to-allegedly-disrupt-countries-in-europe/?utm_source=Direct
I have been watching Soros for a long time, and just now the USA puts him on the watch list.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/china-north-korea-sanctions-coal-economics-nuclear-tests-kim-jong-nam-donald-trump-a7587931.html
interesting - china drops DPRK coal - There is a large coal port that is being built in Oakland that will receive train loads of coal directly from Utah for export to Asia and Mexico
http://energy.utah.gov/utah-invests-53-million-in-california-port-for-coal-other-exports/
looks like I was wrong - maybe there is money in coal exports.
As of right now, I'd vote for Trump again. I love the fact he's not a politician and it shows..
Ivanka shot to No 1 on Amazon. Keep it coming Trump haters, lol, I'm not sick of winning yet:)
Yup... I understand that the president and his family are entitled to secret service protection. Why doesn't he sign an EO to
"repeal and replace" policies regarding secret service coverage, limiting it to government business only. Nah.... that wouldn't be in his best interest.
do as I say -not as I do??? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-vineyard-requests-visas-for-still-more-foreign-workers_us_58a7c90ee4b07602ad54f1e1?
The man is correct that there ate coal exports. We import too. Read on on your own story skippy
I think its a 900m ton facility. Utah ships 16t on coal overseas. They hope to get to 20t. The rest is other stuff like hay.
But wait, there's more. You paid 50m for it with your taxpayer's dollars. That's right, we give Utah subsidies becaise of coal demise and this is how it is spent.
US exports are down 60% due a lot to natural gas. 4m tons ain't gonna change that.
Even if we opened up coal in the US, the south and gulf states would continue to import like they do today unless Trump raised the prive on those poor people via tarriffs to make shipping on from WV look better.
A lot of coal import amd export is due to proximity and therefore dont expect numbers to change radically just because Trump lowers domestic pollution controls.
The way things are going and they will get worse the republicans in 2018 may not lose control of congress but their majorities will decline. They will be forced to compromise, become more moderate and truly bi-partison. Trump will not get four more years assuming he lives that long, does not resign, get impeached or the repubs go with someone else in 20. Even Fox and the WSJ are having their doubts and wondering what they did. Mainstream republicans will begin abandoning Trump in about 6 months to a year. Leaving Trump and his crazy undemocratic fascist allies along with their supporters on the outside looking in. The bottom line is Trump for now is our president but unfortunately he is an embarrassment who needs to be reined in.
Agreed SD just saying China is a huge coal user and since they won't be using the DPRK coal Utah and the US may be able to monetize that and eventually break even at least - was more of an anecdotal post rather than supporting coal - I was just surprised to see that
Its 7.5mt a year. Means a lot to NK, not much, obviously, to China. Hmmm, makes Obama look good. Give China an easy way to dump on N K. by thowing money out.
This is all really an aside. Exporting coal is a weak business no matter who is Pres.
If you really want to see how stupid Trump and anyone who believes coal is king is for bringing back jobs, just look at the current manpower needed per ton. You would have to go back to 1960's technology to find jobs in coal. Dig all the coal you want, there aint that many new jobs even if you do.
Its just another Trump scam.
Don't think trump invented it but I agree coal is not feasible - thanks for your input
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A76DLK20L4o
remember when 60 Minutes went to Sweden to show how peaceful the migrants were but instead they got attacked?
also a word from Pat Condell
https://www.youtube.com/embed/j9e_vcSut0A?&rel=0
fact vs fiction skippy -\\ http://thehill.com/policy/international/320300-sweden-asks-us-to-clarify-trumps-comments-on-sweden-incident
Trump never said there had been a "terror attack" in Sweden, but the MSM ran with it anyway.
Trump said: "Here's the bottom line, we've got to keep our country safe. You look at what's happening. We've got to keep our country safe. You look at what's happening in Germany, you look at what's happening last night in Sweden. Sweden, who would believe this. Sweden. They took in large numbers. They're having problems like they never thought possible. You look at what's happening in Brussels, you look at what's happening all over the world. Take a look at Nice, take a look at Paris."
Nowhere did he say there was a "terror attack."
No, he was obviously talking about the ABBA reunion tour when he said "look at what's happening last night in Sweden" in the context of a conversation about Muslim extremism and how we need to keep our country safe...
I'm a little more concerned that he seems to get his daily intelligence briefings from Tucker Carlson and Fox and Friends than his overall ignorance of just about everything.
not quite how the swedes interpreted it, skippy http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-sweden-idUSKBN15Y0QH
What's happening in Germany he was referring to the terror attack in the Berlin Christmas market. Brussels refers to a terrorist bombing at transportation hubs. Nice refers to a terrorist truck driving into the crowd. Paris refers to the terrorist shootings at the concert halls.
How could anyone possibly interpret the statement "what's happening last night in Sweden" as anything other than some kind of terror related incident in Sweden? Even if you give him a flyer on the "terror" part, the immediate question is what happened last night in Sweden.
And then Trump yells "fake" about the very people he just was attempting to quote as "fact"? What kind of hypocrisy is that?
he was referring to a Tucker Carlson story he saw on fox news - agreed it was not the best way to say that but it is true they have a serious immigration problem.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aPRjg8ViF0&feature=youtu.be
‘With Open Gates: The forced collective suicide of European nations’
It's not just Sweden, its Germany and Greece.
The Fox report noticed an uptick in crime in Sweden during the winter. Without noticing that an uptick in crime during the winter occurs in pretty much every Scandinavian country (as well as Alaska, Siberia and northern Canada.) Usually related to alcohol and the extreme lack of light.
Additionally out of any group 200,000 random folks, you can expect there to be 2 or 3 % criminal elements. that applies to all humans, not just humans of a particular religion. Simply math tells you that is likely to be 4-6000 bad folks in a random group of 200,000. Statistically refugees have criminal rates under the norm, running on average 1-2%. (Which is still 1-2000 folks.) But in general make refugees more law abiding that citizens. (That applies to Sweden, Canada, German and even more so in the U.S. of A where we vet much more thoroughly.
Meaning that Trump is demonizing refugees, but as is often the case his beliefs are not based on actual facts just his feelings and what folks with similar ignorance to the facts (Pronounced sycophants) tell him.
Agust skippy - You're glossing over it and going after the internet hoaxes again. The MSM didn't run with anything other than what they were given. And then told they were fake for doing it. "It was not the best way to say that" is an admission of how it's Trump's fault and no one else's. Period.
European immigration is an entirely different subject that's been covered else where. You can't compare that with what is going on here because there are a half dozen different sources of immigration in Europe. That link is not about terrorism at all, just as "immigration problem" for many in Europe is "the culture war". We're being told the ban is all about safety when that movie is saying it's all about homogeneity. And then implying somehow it's being "forced" on them. Those are all 100% legal, invitation by choice immigrants.
The previous link was even worse.
Trump's wording was definitely not the best and he certainly does not need me to defend him. CNN ran with "Trump Incorrectly Claims Sweden Recently Attacked," they weren't given that - they made that up.
It's called logical inference, skippy. When you list 4 places that were recently attacked and then add "you look at what's happening last night in Sweden. Sweden, who would believe this. Sweden. ", then you ARE claiming that Sweden was attacked last night. Or, you are a complete and utter moron with zero ability to intellectually focus and stay on point. I think you could flip a coin as to which happened in this case, because both are equally plausible.
But... don't fault CNN for making the CORRECT logical inference.
https://twitter.com/PeterSweden7
check this guy out - his boots are on the ground over there.
When that guys posts are all full of the hashtag "Nationalist", just what exact kind of "boots" are they, skippy? Do you have the slightest idea of what you just googled and posted?
I'm gonna guess 14-hole Oxblood Doc Marten's... complemented with rolled up jeans, a Fred Perry shirt and some red suspenders.
Repeal and replace in two weeks. Eight years in planning. It will be H U G E R than the original.
Free press is enemy to Americans.
Hmmm. I forget oh bridge burners of democracy, which goes first, the guns or the gossip pages?
Happy Presidents Day President Trump. And all X Presidents. Enjoy your day, you've earned it.
Obama believes you AE :-)
Russia does Trump phsyc test. Trump fails:(
Puten dumps Trump and starts pushing.
Pence defends NATO. Says anyone who thinks different must be nuts.
Trump hires yet again another General. Hasn't heard Army Intelligence joke.
Why did Trump give up so easily on lowering drug prices? Gave up quickly just like Obama did with the banks. Both Presidents had an opportunity to fix these major issues and neither did.
They are all the same....
Phil Up One of the many things earned so far is lack of credibility - NOT lying is really not that hard but I guess you really can't teach an old dog new tricks.
Bonv Bonv - "Fake news" is the new truth. Google "what ever I want to be true" that has some items is now "fact". As long as it comes to your in box, it's credible. "You're an 'XX'" is now a kind of "defense" when there's no contest. It's war when we're at peace. Too many today don't even think of the matter of credibility.
While you are all having your fun poking at Trump did anyone happen to notice that Sweden has been having integration problems just like many places that have had an influx of immigrants? So yes they do have their issues, and while Trump is being his usual bone-headed self that doesn't mean there's no basis to declare Sweden an immigration paradise. There's a bit of truth in there, just not the extrapolated "terrorism" (aka a yuuuuuge trigger word in these parts) truth that everyone has become so focused on...
you have a visceral response to anything that contradicts a very rigid set of talking points and do not allow any different opinions to pass un-attacked, you are indoctrinated but criticizing others inability to think..
Skippy - "rigid set of talking points" like:
"FAKE NEWS"
"Forced collective suicide"
"They're bringing drugs, they're bringing crime, they're rapists."
Who exactly is indoctrinated??
The press is the enemy of the American people.
All I can say is: Maureen Dowd--you go girl. That was scathing.
Germany had integration problems back in the 1930s/40s, too.
So what's the point?!
GetOverYerself If you think Trump represents leadership, that's pathetic. He hasn't done a damned thing since taking office besides play golf, tweet juvenile garbage, and make himself look foolish in front of the entire world - including our allies.
He hasn't accomplished a thing yet, and he likely never will, b/c he's never held a job in his life and knows nothing about civics or foreign relations.
"Germany had integration problems back in the 1930s/40s, too."
Yep, because prohibiting a few foreigners from flying into JFK is obviously the same as marching them en-masse into a gas chamber.
"Fake news" is the new truth. Google "what ever I want to be true" that has some items is now "fact". As long as it comes to your in box, it's credible. "You're an 'XX'" is now a kind of "defense" when there's no contest. It's war when we're at peace. Too many today don't even think of the matter of credibility."
You this is a NEW phenomenon?!?! No wonder the country has "issues"...
"did anyone happen to notice that Sweden has been having integration problems just like many places that have had an influx of immigrants? "
Aw hell, I've been following this issue since BEFORE Merckel welcomed them with open arms... there have been issues in France, Belgium, and UK wth Islamic immigrants for YEARS now (and Michigan, FWIW).
"The press is the enemy of the American people. "
They are- and have been, for quite awhile now. Chuck Todd is their crowned king of colossal arrogance. Just like today's democrat party is not "your grandfather's" democrat party, today's "journalists" are not "your grandfather's journalists" either.
Trust No 1
I didn't post anything proporting to be news - just opinions of others. thats the difference between news and and opinion pieces. GC I'm not going to call anyone out - you'll remove it anyway. There's no point in railing on.
It's ok skippy. You should reference someone like Dowd next time, a "real" journalist (she should probably review the definition referenced by the American Press Institute) who writes factually with no slant whatsoever. I mean, in order for a story to NOT be "fake news" it should nessesarily contain real news instead of a couple of facts spattered between emotion-grabbing opinion ;-)
Oh, JIT, come now...SD didn't reference Dowd as news. She has an Op-Ed column. You understand what that is? You understand the difference? Opinion...not news reporting.
But the Trump administration traffics in lies as a matter of course.
Well he won because people voted for him. So give him a chance. Imagine you were trying to do a new job and trolls online bashed you so negatively.
"But the Trump administration traffics in lies as a matter of course."
..because no other administration has ever done that... ROFL
The fact that he has so much opposition and negativity is unprecedented (see how I spelled that right;) and should tell you and the douchebag that there's something wrong here. But we'll just put it down to the poor snowflakes shall we? Or the "paid" trolls and protesters. LOL! Where's my check? Lol
Yep, because prohibiting a few foreigners from flying into JFK is obviously the same as marching them en-masse into a gas chamber.
Duh. It goes to the mindset. Germany felt the same way about Jews that you are now feeling about others. And look what happened. It's a slippery slope.
RAS-
The fact that he has so much opposition and negativity AND STILL WON is what is unprecedented, and that is the biggest indicator of what's actually going on... This guys a douchebag (your words) and we'd still rather have him in charge than allow things to move even farther to the left. Recent polls* show that most voters want the Democrats to work with Trump! Even the Democrats think it's gone too far! This election is an outright rejection of the leftist ideology and the lefts response is to push even farther over the edge, no wonder his support is (begrudgingly) increasing!
* http://thehill.com/homenews/news/320229-poll-americans-want-democrats-to-work-with-trump
brendan The group to compare to Nazi's is ISIS NOT the U.S. You know, the ones that are literally killing Jews and Christians and Muslims that don't see things their way.
Georgie Bush had one thing right, we got to bring the fight to them, unfortunately this country didn't have the balls to get this thing done once and for all. Instead people like Obama created environments which gave rise to groups like ISIS via half measures. It's going to take re-engagement militarily in the Middle East, and not just drone strikes. We needs boots on the ground and we need to keep going until every last one of those miscreants is dead. It is us or them...just like if we were fighting the Nazis.
And once we turn the middle east into an ice skating rink we need to help pay to build it up again a la The Marshall Plan, seems only fair.
Trump is a public figure. He's only happy talking about how wonderful he is. The guy is campaigning for the next presidential election, but can't trust himself, yet to meet with foreign leaders, overseas. He sends Pence.
So.... if someone does blow up one of his Trump buildings, overseas, is it considered an attack on a private business? On the president? On America? All three? Then what?
"Recent polls* show that most voters want the Democrats to work with Trump! "
The same poll shows that most voters want Trump to work with the Democrats, too. I'm not holding my breath for either event to occur...
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