Hostage Situation (Australia)
The situation is very tragic and I can only pray that there is a positive outcome for the hostages/families. Australia has definitely been on high alert and expecting possible attacks but as we know it only takes 1 zealot. What I find compelling is that the Australian newscast is censoring their coverage and not providing live pictures (at least the CNN news group) - that's the way it should be.
Bonv It's terrible the pain and suffering islam brings to the world. How DARE they call themselves a "religion of peace". My heart goes out to the hostages and I hope they are brought to safety.
MansfieldMom1977 Come on MansfieldMom1977 How much pain and suffering has the Christian religion caused. religion is the root of all evil not money religion of all kinds has been used as an excuse to kill and hate for thousands of years
oldredOn the news they are trying for perspective, since its not yet confirmed who is responsible. It is possible, they say, that some mentally ill person is posing as an islamic extremist.
hktownie As oldred noted, religion is the issue, not what religion. Unfortunately, humans have always been willing to kill for their beliefs, it doesn't matter if it is religion, politics or a football team. Our psychology is setup in such a way that it doesn't allow for 2 opposing views to be right, therefore, the other guy is wrong and he must be corrected, with deadly force if necessary.
Bemused It's not religion that is the root of evil but man's perversion of religion. We are becoming a world filled with extremists and not just religious extremists - there is no longer a willingness to listen, respect, compromise....
As for this situation - I truly hope that there is a positive outcome.
If only people could agree to disagree and each move forward keeping their own belief whether it be religion, football or anything else for which people hold opposing views. With most major issues never the twain shall meet ... unfortunately. As Bonv said, "I truly hope tjhat tjhere is a positive outcome" in Australia.
Mrs. Pipes The best positive outcome would have been a hole in the hostage taker's head at the first sign of an armed attack... but alas Australia basically bans everything as sharp or "dangerous" as a plastic butter knife. So, more disarmed victims (i.e. sitting ducks) and another criminal that cares nothing for the laws.
As it looks now, the police have raided the cafe and there are multiple injuries and fatalities.
Mark Mc. Baptist pastor calls for the execution of gays for an “aids-free Christmas”
http://elielcruz.religionnews.com/2014/12/03/baptist-pastor-calls-execution-gays-aids-free-christmas/
How DARE they call it the religion of peace!
-OR-
Maybe it's a very small portion that gives the majority (of any mindset - religious or not) a bad name? Might be a tough concept for the brainwashed or bigoted to understand.
emaxxman Give me a break so tired of people trying to lump in Christians with Fanatical muslims. Is the United States evil because at one point in it's history slavery was legal. History is just that, history. How many thousands of innocent men women and CHILDREN were murdered last month in the name of Christianity? How many innocent people were crucified alive by extremist Christians last month. How many women were raped, sold and enslaved by Christian extremists in the last month. The comparison is idiotic! People need to live in the real current world.
Denis The real current world contains fanatics from all religions yet only fanatical Muslims are seen as speaking for the entire religion. This fanatical pastor is quoting the Bible for his justification to kill gays to cleanse the world of AIDS...yet he doesn't speak for all of Christianity. Why is that?
Too bad you're too dumb to see that how flawed the generalizations are.
It can be documented that thousands of innocent people have been killed in the last month by fanatical muslims, and the best you can do is quote one lunatic pastor, and some how equate the 2. To bad your too much of a dumb ass to realize your comparison is a joke.
Here's the difference:
A LITERAL HANDFUL of Christians have done anything "extreme" in a very long time. By contrast, the Califate and Islamic state that is moving across the planet, crucifying christians, treating women as 3rd class citizens, killing homosexuals... is A HELLUVA LOT MORE than "just a few" muslims. Let's compare apples with apples.
I agree you can't paint a religion on the actions of it's extremists.... but I don't care what religion you come from, if you number millions, or even many many thousands, and are spreading mass murder, you must be stopped.
When most of of speak of the "muslim extremists", we are not condemning the religion itself (altho that is a worthy debate to have at some point), we are condeming the many many thousands of jihadists.
So you really think it's the same thing as several abortion clinic bombers and the Westboro Baptist Church (who hasn't KILLED ANYONE, btw).... you're smoking crack.
JeffersonRepub Crazy Muslim in Australia kills two; crazy Christian in Pennsylvania kills six. But let's worry about the Muslim guy.
ianiimal ia,
Because I know you're serious, I'll say again- you're an ass.
I KNOW you're not that stupid, why you choose to remain ignorant, I'll never know.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
2014.12.13 (Haditha, Iraq) - Two Shahid suicide bombings leave twelve dead.
2014.12.13 (Lashkar Gah, Afghanistan) - Twelve workers are machine-gunned by the Taliban while trying to clear an area of mines.
2014.12.12 (Fercha, Algeria) - Islamists shoot and then slit the throat of a 56-year-old man.
2014.12.12 (Gush Etzion, Israel) - A Palestinian throws acid onto a family, including young children.
2014.12.11 (Jos, Nigeria) - Islamic extremists bomb a crowded food stand, ending the lives of over three dozen innocents.
2014.12.11 (Kabul, Afghanistan) - A Shahid suicide bomber detonates next to a bus, killing six passengers.
...and that's just in THREE DAYS
November 2,206 people killed by Isis Islamist Fanatics fighting in the name of Islam. But let's equate a man who killed his X-wife and some other innocent people, that had nothing to do with his faith. That makes sense.
Hmmm. Strong military industrial complex pushes military excursions across the planet, convincing the small minded that we are doing it to spread democracy or some other dumb reason, and we do it because we Americans are "exceptional" and therefore must be leaders to spread "good" in the world. And we do it by force, of course, because ya know that's how good leaders lead - by force - and not by example.
Or perhaps viewed from the other side, we're just another imperial power pushing our will on the rest of the planet using military might, upending governments left and right it seems, using our 700+ militarty bases world wide and our drone technology to kill and mame from a distance, like a poisonous acid rain that can't be stopped. Or I imagine some people might think like that.
Point is, people in this world are angry. And some of that is directed toward the US, rightfully so IMO. From the immoral detention of prisoners held without charge or trial in Guantonimo to our "collect it all" data mining and retention (that of course won't be used for spying) to our currency being the only viable choice is some parts of the world, there's a lot of room for folks to be angry. Some of them will be Islamic too, because, ya know, we've kinda been targeting one or two of them over the last decade.
But you know all that JR. What scares me is that you probably will read what I just wrote and put some ridiculous "you're not patriotic" spin on it when in fact if you read the words and what they mean they are 100% truth. We've been pretty shitty to people in other parts of the world, no? And those people are probably angry about it, no? But they shouldn't be angry you say, because YOU'RE right and they are just subhuman is all, barbaric animals they are. It's funny, because I look around me and read some of the comments people write here and elsewhere and honestly have no clue as to how they can think the way they do. And that's when I realize that they probably aren't thinking, they are feeling, using the barbarian side of their brains to justify a mental self image of superiority over "those people" when they sure as hell haven't got a single clue as to who "those people" really are, save for a series of one-sided news reports paraded about by our leaders, journalists and "experts". Just lump every single person with a common trait into an easy to judge bucket and all is good in the world, right?
Someone's smoking crack - well, apparently lots of someones - but I suspect it's probably the closed-minded ones who think a small percentage of a group represents the whole. Kinda like saying every Democrat is a left wing extremist in hiding, or the converse that every Republican is a right wing extremist in hiding. All bullshit. Every last bit.
justintime NOT AT ALL JIT. I know what has happened geo-politically. But you almost act as if "we asked for it".... and the jihadist actions are justified.... I'm sure the families of the 3000 victims of 9-11 would be glad to hear to feel that way....
When the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor, it was also brought about by some geo-political stuff at that time. But THEY STILL BOMBED PEARL HARBOR. THEY still committed an ACT OF WAR. We responded in kind.
Yes, JR, there are unintended consequences from any action taken. How can you expect to take agressive action around the globe and not expect retribution? DUH, you call for retribution all the time and you're on the side of the good guys! Imagine if you were on the side of the bad guys, you'd probably be the first one in line at Starbucks taking hostages!
"I agree you can't paint a religion on the actions of it's extremists..."
But people are doing it all the time; and you stand by and have no issue with it when it is a statement against Islam but you come flying in with stats and quotes when someone alludes to the fact that there could be even one fanatic in your own religion.
Elevating it up a level, people are generalizing to the detriment of society all the time.
The original comment generalized Islam. That's what I was addressing. No matter how large the numbers are on one side or how little they are on the other, the generalization is wrong especially when there are millions of examples of not only peaceful Muslims but also those that fight the extremists and fight alongside and for Christians.
" We responded in kind."
We're the only ones that are allowed to do that, apparently.
"When the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor, it was also brought about by some geo-political stuff at that time. But THEY STILL BOMBED PEARL HARBOR. THEY still committed an ACT OF WAR. We responded in kind."
And the U.S. interred 127K Japanese-Americans wrongfully during WW2. Their only "crime" was that they were of Japanese ancestry. It seems many people still have not learned anything from history are at complete ease in painting with large racist brushes.
JIT - Exactly. It's another playground game of "my terrorist is better than your terrorist, neener neener neener". Needless loss of life is wrong no matter whose life it is.
GC If I lived in Pakistan, i would probably be concerned about radical Muslims. If I lived in Israel, I would probably be worried about radical Muslims. But, I live in the good old US of A, where out of the 15,000 or so murders every year, 95% of them are committed by people who self-identify as Christians.
So, similar to your rightful argument that a person is much more likely to die from accidental drowning that from an accidental gunshot; it is also FAR more likely that if you are to be killed on American soil, it will be a Christian, not a Muslim, watching you die. The motives are immaterial; crazy killers are crazy killers.
And since you brought up Pearl Harbor, that was a tactical attack on a military installation, not a deliberate incineration of hundreds of thousands of civilians whose sole purpose was to elicit "terror" and get the enemy to surrender.
"But, I live in the good old US of A, where out of the 15,000 or so murders every year, 95% of them are committed by people who self-identify as Christians. "
Really? In a country where the majority of people are Christian, the majority of crimes are committed by Christians? Oh my, what a statistical oddity!
Let me know when the local Knights of Columbus travel to Iraq to sell their girls into sex slavery...
No mark, if you want to go by news reports (which you do) Christians just molest their own, no need to steal one from another cristian
Who said it was a statistical oddity? Any more than the fact that millions more kids go swimming than play with guns? The reasons for both are obvious. It doesn't make either any less true.
"Christians just molest their own"
A crime, no doubt... but not done to spread the word of God, or Allah, or whatever name you believe in.
emaxx,
1) I don't have to "swoop in to defend honest muslims", because I'm not a muslims. I let the honest muslims do it.
2) I disagree with the internment of the Japanese American citizens. Surprise you?
JIT,
"allowed" has nothing to do with it. IN THE END, ALL actions have consequences. We did whatever we did, which pissed off some muslims and turned them into jihadis. So now, the jihadists did what they did, and we turn Afghanistan into a desert. (wait...)
I know what you're thinking... "when does it end"? The answer in NEVER- because humans have always been, and will always be, ego-centric, fallible, and there will ALWAYS be those who thirst for power and control enough to kill for it. It will NEVER end. Anyone who thinks human nature will allow it to end is extremely naive.
ia,
"But, I live in the good old US of A, where out of the 15,000 or so murders every year, 95% of them are committed by people who self-identify as Christians. "
AND.... those "people who self-identify as christians" aren't killing IN THE NAME OF THEIR GOD. THAT, my friend, is the difference. A husband who HAPPENS TO BE A CHRISTIAN killing his wife because she burnt his steak (or whatever) is NOT THE SAME THING as a muslim killing someone BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT A MUSLIM. Apples and oranges.
Tell the families of the 5042 people in killed November by Jihadists that motives don't matter, and there killers really weren't Jihadist's, but were just crazy. Tell the families of innocent women and children who were murdered because they won't profess the allegiance to Islam that it has nothing to with religion. Tell the Yazdi women who are taken as sex slaves or concubines under the interpretation of Shariah law by their captures, that is has nothing to do with Islam.
LMAO at JeffersonRepub ...
He aggresively attacks Hackettstown people for being "Rude" ....,
but he will call someone an "ASS" without reservation .......
and accuses people of "smoking crack".
"1) I don't have to "swoop in to defend honest muslims", because I'm not a muslims. I let the honest muslims do it."
Well, that's just the problem isn't it. You tout certain principles of equality and fairness all the time (that should apply to everyone) but at the end of the day, you only care about yourself and like people.
"2) I disagree with the internment of the Japanese American citizens. Surprise you?"
Surprise me. No, of course not; and I certainly wasn't trying to state that you did. Society, in general, doesn't seem to remember how wrong it was to paint people with a broad brush like that though. The above comments reaffirm that.
"A crime, no doubt... but not done to spread the word of God, or Allah, or whatever name you believe in."
But one condoned (albeit not encouraged) by the Vatican for many decades. The Vatican took deliberate steps to hide that instead of confronting it and speaking out against. Is anyone sitting here generalizing and implying all Catholics are molesters?
Scores of imams and Muslim leaders have spoken out against the atrocities of fanatic muslim terrorists and yet people still will condemn all Muslims as the same.
"but not done to spread the word of God"
David Koresh? Warren Jeffs?
We've got to get past "it's just *them*". There's plenty of it to go around and making it stop is the point, not trying to say "we're" better then "they" are.
Sorry Mark, silly me I thought all crimes were committed by individuals acting alone. You're right, crimes committed by those on behalf of another, deity or not, are much worse.
Denis, your point being what? That there are complete morons in the world? You're right!
"those "people who self-identify as christians" aren't killing IN THE NAME OF THEIR GOD."
Um..yes, there are some. Is it thousands? No. But that doesn't change the fact that they are doing it in the name of the Bible and Jesus.
Does it mean any follower of the Bible and Jesus is destined to be a murderer? No, of course not. Just like being a follower of the Quran doesn't automatically make you a murdering psychopath.
I really don't get why that is so hard to understand for some.
JIT my point goes back to my original statement, lumping Christians in with Fanatical Muslims is ridiculous. There is a war being waged by radical Islamist, is the name of Islam. There is no current equivalency that is any way relevant with regards to Christians. The world is what is is, not what you would like it to be.
Ok Denis, I don't disagree with your basic premise. How does this latest situation in Australia fit in with religious Islamic fanaticism? What was the religious statement to be made?
Denis, what about the 10s of thousands of Iraqi and Afghan civilians that were killed by American bombs and drone attacks? Tell them that they weren't casualties of a new Christian crusade against Islam. While it happens to be true, I'm sure that it isn't necessarily their perspective nor the story that they are getting from those who would be served by radicalizing them. How many of the most fanatical today are those who lost their families to our attacks, however justified we believe those attacks to be?
The killer who was an Islamic Fanatic, who wrote letters to the families of Australian soldiers killed in Afghanistan celebrating their deaths, who who wore an Islamic head band during the siege, and demanded a Isis flag be displayed during the standoff. Who lived in country that has designated as a target for lone wolf attacks by Isis.
How many of those Christians in the US who killed people were screaming "Praise God or die by my hand!" while killing? Or was their religion incidental?
Brendan Right, afganistan. Soldiers. What's religious about that?
Read my above comments, this has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with revenge.
A perfect response to a horrible situation. Good onya Australia!
http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-30479306
Gadfly So, back on topic...
Looks like the manager of the cafe died trying to take the gun from the snoozing hostage taker.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/hero-cafe-manager-dies-stop-gunman-sydney-article-1.2046360
Would have been a good opportunity to get his own gun out of an ankle holster. Except it's Australia, where all he could be was a good guy *without* a gun.
JeffersonRepub
in your heres the difference post replace Muslim with Christian and replace mass murder and put in raping children
Gadfly, thanks for the link. Sometimes I think he worlds gone crazy then I see things like this. Nice to know there are still decent people in he world.
Muslim Taliban Raids Pakistan School with Intent to Kill Children
126 confirmed dead so far. - The religion of peace strikes again.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-30491435
Mark the goal is to annihilate any apostate thereby enforcing subjugation with the threat of violence and death
126 school children? they just don't care
BrotherDog 
LngVly22 I don't think this was a religious attack most killed were Muslims this was an attack on the government of Pakistan
Old Red this attack was carried out by the Pakistan Taliban who's sole purpose is to overthrow the government and replace with an Islamic state governed by Sharia law and you don't think this was a religious attack? This is %100 a religious attack, the fact that the victims were muslim in no way changes the facts. This was motivated by muslims, based on their interpretation of Islam. Fact are facts,
hapiest girl,
Your reading comprehension skills need some work. Where did I complain in this thread that HL people were "being rude"???
But we'll give you a pass, we all know the public school system isn't what it used to be... whatever GRADE your in.
The Taliban is a glaring example of what happens when social conservatives get absolute power. They aren't much different than the Puritans of three plus centuries ago. The only difference is that people actually dare to oppose the Taliban.
Once again someone attempt to create an equivalency between Muslims extremists and Christians. Yes not much difference ianimal, except the Puritan's didn't kill innocent men women and children by the thousands on a monthly basis, didn't raid schools and kill innocent children for vengeance, didn't take innocent women as sex slaves, and there existence was hundreds of years before any of us were alive. Yes ianimal the only difference is people dare to oppose them, yeah OK that makes sense too.
LOL, right, because there weren't thousands of people around who dared to defy them. The Puritans weren't any less theocratic demagogues than the Taliban. They just lacked the number of potential victims and the technological firepower that the Taliban have. Do you really think they were any more accepting of what they deemed to be blasphemy, homosexuality or women who didn't know their place? That's ridiculous. And it's not like we got from then to now overnight either. There was still 200 more years of slavery, genocide of the native population, Jim Crow.. hell, it hasn't even been 100 years since we condescended to give women the right to vote. And 50 years ago, white Christians were fire bombing churches filled with black parishioners. But now that we are SO socially evolved, we expect everyone to automatically follow suit when we snap our fingers. They have other ideas. Which isn't to say that they don't need to be stopped; they do. But let's not forget our own history and start believing that we are so much different or better than anyone else. We just had a 300 year head start.
I am not defending Puritans, merely pointing out once again that someone has to go back in time to try and equate Christianity with radical Islam. But to your point to say there were on the same level as the taliban when it comes to non believers is just such utter nonsense. I don't recall reading anywhere that they were beheading children who didn't swear allegiance to God, I don't recall reading that they thought is was acceptable to take women who they considered blasphemous as sexual slaves. The best you can do is speculate on what they might have done had they had the power to do so, based solely on your pre conceived notions. Keep living in the past, in your fantasy world, of what was, and what might have been, and pretend to not see the evil that is Fanatical Islam. I'm sure it make you more comfortable. Sorry to hear you " "don't think you are that much different, or better than them" They had a "300 year head start", once again I'll have to go back to the history books, I was under the impression history actually started in the middle east.
Do you think that Pakistan and Afghanistan are in the Middle East? That may be part of the problem. Also, I'm not defending the Taliban; far from it. I'm just pointing out that the underlying issue is extreme social conservatism driven by theology, which is a definite part of our own distant and not so distant history. But just as the Puritans don't define Christianity, the Taliban don't define Islam, which has over a billion adherents, most of whom do not rape or murder people. So when people lump all of them into a little box, I feel the need to point out their own less than stellar history so that they may realize that they don't like being pigeonholed and defined by the acts of others anymore than peaceful Muslims do. But if you're bound and determined to maintain an air of moral superiority over all Muslims for the actions of a relative few, that's your prerogative.
"relative few"
Again, we are talking thousands upon thousands of those relative few.... and those relative few are crucifying, beheading, and gang raping. And this isn't history, it's happening RIGHT NOW. And it's spreading. What do you propose we do? Simply look the other way because "once, a long time ago, some puritans had a stick up their butt on social issues"? Or perhaps "hey, it's ok- remember the crusades? The Christians did it too, so the Muslims are doing it now, no biggie...."
I'll say it again- why you choose to remain blind and ignorant is beyond me, because I know you're smarter than that. At least I thought so....
And, FWIW- I'd be saying exactly the same thing if I were an atheist or an agnostic. The islamic caliphate is extremely dangerous for millions of people all around the world. Ignore it at your (and their) peril. I don't care what their religion is, I care what their actions are. And if they were atheists killing and raping in the name of "ridding the world of the dangerous fairy tale crutch known as religion", I'd be saying exactly the same thing.
You probably would have agreed with Chamberlain in WWII...
I challenge you to quote me ANYWHERE saying that all muslims were evil, that the Taliban defines Islam, and that I feel morally superior to muslims. Good luck you can't. I do feel morally superior to fanatical Muslims who murder innocent people. As far as my own distant history, I am second generation and the only descendant I had involved in American history was my Great Grandfather who came over from Ireland to fight in the civil war for the north, and then returned. I don't take credit for his actions, and I don't feel the need to have any guilt about things that happened here before I was born. I am living in today's world where Fanatical Islam represents the greatest force of evil on earth TODAY. You are relegated to the past, and fantasy.
JR, thousands upon thousands of people are being murdered and raped right here in America each and every year right now. Why do you turn a blind eye to that and find yourself much more concerned with what is going on half a world away? Talk about being willfully ignorant. And I never said that they shouldn't be stopped. And it's not like no one is doing anything. The attack today was retaliation for a Pakistan army attack on their own forces. No one condones their actions and we will eventually ferret them out and give them what's coming to them. But when people start condemning a billion people for the actions of a few, it's just plain ignorant, willful or not.
Denis, you weren't around in the '60s when the Klan was firebombing black churches and lynching people? You must be younger than I thought.
Social conservatism isn't the problem, nor is social liberalism or any other 'ism you can name.
The problem isn't Religion, although religion does tend to give folks a sense of legitimacy for their actions.
The problem is using force to push your particular 'ism on someone else without their consent. Of course people will push back, as it should be. Not sure why this would surprise anyone.
But we'll give you a pass, we all know the public school system isn't what it used to be... whatever GRADE your in.
JeffersonRepub
It's spelled YOU'RE and NOT YOUR.
What public school did YOU attend?
What grade are YOU in?
haha touche'.
At least the public school I attended 35 years ago actually taught to RESEARCH and LEARN the answers to things, instead of developing preconceived notions and then sticking YOUR head in the sand so as not a hear any conflicting opinion.
Says the guy who falls for every single internet hoax that fits HIS preconceived notions, lol...
they jumped up on the tables shouted "god is great" then started shooting the children
145 dead so far
...says the Sydney killer:
“In Islam there is no any divisions of “radicalists” or “extremists” and “moderates”, we have only one Islam. We cannot call any one “Moderate Muslim” as such a thing does not exist in Islam. I am neither an extremist nor a moderate, I am just a Muslim, a Muslim who tries to follow the Holy Quran and the Sunnah of prophet Muhammad,” Haron wrote in another letter.
http://www.frontpagemag.com/2014/dgreenfield/sydney-hostage-taker-islam-is-the-religion-of-peace/
I think it's pretty clear that Christian "extremists" have offed many more than Muslim "extremists" and doubtful that the Muslims could catch up. Remember the Christian Jihad known as the Crusades? The Inquisition? Witch Hunting? The Cathar or Stedinger extinctions? The Klan? And we can get more modern, more local as well.
Point is throughout history evil men from many religions have claimed a religious rationale for their evil to attract the disenfranchised to their poisonous causes. They are not religious, no God nor religion advocates this type of action. They neither have faith nor honor and instead are faithless, dishonorable, beasts who murder innocents to pursue their unreligious goals of disrupting the status quo.
Only by rising up, pointing them out, and sending them to meet that maker they think they honor will we send them back to the shadows of our memories where they belong.
mistergoogle Mr.G fact is you cant "get more modern, more local as well" and show any comparison that reaches the scale of Evil being perpetrated by fanatical Islam today.
Denis,
I obviously don't speak for ianimal, but my guess is the klan comment is in response to this:
"I don't feel the need to have any guilt about things that happened here before I was born. I am living in today's world where Fanatical Islam represents the greatest force of evil on earth TODAY. You are relegated to the past, and fantasy."
MB If that's the case MB, then I'll clarify I don't feel the need to feel guilty about things that I had nothing to do with, and in no way supported.
Nothing, really, Denis... but you wrote:
"... I don't feel the need to have any guilt about things that happened here before I was born."
So, I brought up heinous acts of terror that were perpetrated by Christians in this country since you were born. Which isn't to say that you SHOULD "have guilt" about them... just that it wasn't SO long ago when Christians were committing terrorist actions in this country.
So we will agree I have nothing to feel guilty about. That being said in today's world fanatical Islam is the greatest threat posed to everyone, muslims included.
In tribal Pakistan or Afghanistan, sure.
Here, not really. I think you have a better chance of being shot while drowning in your own pool just as lightning strikes it than becoming the victim of fanatical Islam in Hackettstown.
I'll have to tell that to my friend I went to High School with who lived in NJ, but worked in the city and died on 911 that he has a better chance of getting hit by Lightning, oh wait I can't he's dead. I'll have to tell that to the parents of the kids who went to Pope John with my daughter and were both killed on 911, oh wait I can't tell them either there dead as well.
How many other people have been murdered in the US in the last 13 years? 150,000? 250,000? Are their lives less important than those you listed? Do their families miss them any less? Not very many of those other deaths can be attributed to fanatical Muslims. They certainly aren't anywhere near the top when it comes to murderers in the US.
Of course their lives don't matter less, and you stating that in no way disproves my point that your assertion that fanatical muslims don't represent a threat to people who live here is bogus. Once again, you have to resort to rhetoric because you have nothing of substance to counter my point Quit while your behind.
Nothing of substance? The fact that you are infinitely more likely to be murdered by a crazy white guy with a gun than a Muslim isn't substantive enough for you?
Your statement that "fanatical Islam is the biggest threat in the world today" is the absolute definition of "rhetoric" and then you accuse me of resorting to rhetoric to debate YOUR rhetoric? I'll quit, all right... my head is starting to hurt, lol.
"I think you have a better chance of being shot while drowning in your own pool just as lightning strikes it than becoming the victim of fanatical Islam in Hackettstown."
You have nothing of substance to back those words up, after I pointed out with personal examples how clearly that is not the case. Keep trying to sidetrack, yes more likely to be killed by with a white guy with a gun, and that proves radical Islam isn't a threat how? You got nothing.
"I think it's pretty clear that Christian "extremists" have offed many more than Muslim "extremists"
It is? I don't think it is at all. Let's see some of your wonderful charts, mg. And AGAIN- we're really going to take the attitude that muslim extremism in 2014 "ain't that bad" BASED ON some christian extremism 1000 years ago? The only thing that shows is that Christianity has come a long way and Islam HASN'T.
"Remember the Christian Jihad known as the Crusades?"
Yes I "remember" the crusades- those "wars" that were started because Christian pilgrims traveling to and from the Holy Land were being attacked so the church had to send knights TO PROTECT THE PILGRIMS FROM THE ATTACKING MUSLIMS? Yes, I remember those.
And, being Christian, if Christians were mass murdering men, women, and children, keeping women as sex slaves, and gang raping homosexuals before killing them for being homosexual, I would be as against it as I am against the muslims doing it.
rhetoric "language designed to have a persuasive or impressive effect on its audience, but often regarded as lacking in sincerity or meaningful content."
rhetoric "1. (in writing or speech) the undue use of exaggeration or display; bombast.
"yes more likely to be killed by with a white guy with a gun, and that proves radical Islam isn't a threat how? "
I never said it wasn't a threat; I said it wasn't "the biggest threat in the US today", which you just admitted is true, no?
It may not be the biggest threat in the US today- but it IS the biggest threat in the WORLD today. Very similarly to how Nazi Germany and it's expansion were. While everyone pretty much knows Adolf Hitler's actions were not based on religion, but his insanity, it makes no matter- that's the point I'm making. I don't care that these muslims are mass killing, crucifying, gang raping, and beheading in the name of their god- I care that they are DOING IT. The FACT that they are doing it in the name of their god is merely a FACT that you and others seem to want to ignore for some reason.
My argument that fanatical Islam is threat has been backed up by numbers more than 5000 killed in November. My counter your statement that radical islam represents no threat to someone living hear has been backed up by personal examples. Substance
You have resorted to the Puritans, the Klan, Jim Crow, Slavery, Womens rights and murders committed in the last 13 years, all of which in no way negate my statement. ianiimal = rhetoric 101.
Really? You're comparing a highly militarized industrialized nation of 80 million people to a loose association of backward goat herders? You're talking about a defined political entity with specific borders and comparing it to small groups of people who hide in caves. Which isn't to say that they aren't dangerous, especially in this day and age with Russian nuclear materiel being scattered god knows where.
But my point is that they aren't in a fixed location where they can be dealt with as if they were a nation-state. You really can't kill them until they pop their heads out. So, the whole comparison to Nazi Germany is just as ridiculous when it comes from you as it is when it comes from anyone else on the right-wing websites.
Who is denying that the Islamic terrorists are doing it in the name of their god? I think that's pretty widely accepted. What's not accepted is that Islamic terrorists speak and act for, and with the blessing of, all Muslim people.
Comparison to Nazi Germany is 100% valid- it matters not "where they are". What they are doing is WRONG, is a danger to the WORLD, and they must be STOPPED.
As I said- you would have gotten along quite well with Chamberlain, I'm sure.
And again again again again- please show us where we have said the muslims need to be wiped out en masse? You can't, because we haven't. But what IS ridiculous is you acting like there a couple dozens islamic terrorists giving all the peaceful ones a bad name.
My comparison of the Taliban to the Puritans had nothing to do with debating whatever point you were trying to make; it was just an observation on the dangers of extreme social conservatism driven by religious zealotry and a parallel that occurred in Christianity. It was actually probably more of a validation of your point than a rebuttal to it.
Not everything that is written on these pages are a direct counter-argument to your statements. I never said that fanatical Islam WASN'T a threat.
Yes, you initially said world, and I agreed with a more limited view of Pakistan and Afghanistan (and there are certainly other areas) but said that it wasn't the biggest threat in the US, which you ultimately agreed with. So round and round we go... arguing and arguing but not actually disagreeing.
LOL, again with the Chamberlain. You're doing lots of "research" on the right-wing websites again, huh?
Where did I say that you said that the Muslims needed to be wiped out en masse? And who is "us"? Do you have a mouse in your pocket, Churchill?
I'm with you, though. They need to be stopped. Absolutely. All we stupid people need now is for the genius Jeff to tell us how he proposes to do it, beyond the incredible amounts of money and resources that we and other countries are already expending on the problem. Do you have an Islamic terrorist detector that you are holding back from the government?
So you at least agree they ned to be stopped.... finally..... as you say, "So round and round we go... arguing and arguing but not actually disagreeing."
Just stop trying to make it look like anyone who is concerned- extremely concerned- with the growing Islamist threat is some sort of religious hypocrite or over-reacting war monger. And stop acting like it's a "handful" of bad apples spoiling the bunch- it is MUCH MUCH larger than that, all you have to do is open your eyes and pay attention to see it.
http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Iraq-ISIS-murdered-150-women-and-underage-girls-for-refusing-sex-acts-384969
So, they murdered them not for Allah, but because they refused to be raped? That sounds like something that happens in every war. American soldiers raped and murdered some Iraqis as I recall.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/soldier-convicted-raping-killing-iraqi-girl-commits-suicide-prison-article-1.1619054
Oh for GOD's sake (pun intended).... how many times do we have to say it?
Go ahead- how many American soldiers raped and murdered how many Iraqis?
-compared to-
how many Islamic jihadists raped and murdered how many women all over the world?
I'll wait....
Hint:
the former is no doubt a known number, whereas the latter is incalculable at this point.
Chillax JR, I was describing an aggregate number versus the current risk which, of course, is Islamic extremists who I still say are faithless men without honor or true religion, a stain in the eye's of any God. I think you have probably seen what I think should be done with those creating the current issues.
I guess you can have that opinion of the First Crusade, that's not exactly my read.
You know guys (ia and mg)... I have been sitting here re-examining world history.... and you're right. We are talking about a RELATIVE FEW here- both in those committing the atrocities as well as those having the atrocities committed to them.
Just like slavery in America... the amount of slaves held in America over it's history was RELATIVE FEW when compared to the amount of slaves being held around the world, and especially when compared to the worldwide african-american race. Certainly these RELATIVE FEW weren't enough to get worked up about... certainly not enough to fight a WAR over.
Just like the people taken to the Nazi death camps in WWII... the amount of victims held, tortured,and killed at those camps were a RELATIVE FEW when compared to the millions in the European population. Certainly these RELATIVE FEW weren't enough to get worked up about... certainly not enough to fight a WAR over.
Just like the so-called "civil rights movement" in America... the amount of blacks lynched in America over it's history was RELATIVE FEW when compared to the size of the American black population at that time. Certainly these RELATIVE FEW weren't enough to get worked up about... certainly not enough to worry about PASSING LEGISLATION FOR.
What WAS I thinking?
Great speech here, I think she nails it (the whole "only a few muslims are violent" argument.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrmwB0bwtYQ
-1.2 billion muslims worldwide....
-radicals are estimated to be between 15%-25% according to intelligence services around the world
-15-25% = 180-300 million people dedicated to the destruction of western civilization; that's like the population of the United States
-she goes on to describe how throughout history the "peaceful majority" were irrelevant and the radical minority drove the agendas, resulting in millions of people killed
Spring Fever 180 -300 million people "dedicated to the destruction of western civilization". Do you even comprehend the scale of the numbers you just wrote? That's a pretty sizable population, why is the scale of violence on the order of hundreds, maybe thousands, of Muslims committing aggressive attacks? Someone's numbers don't add up.
Perhaps the source is exagerrating a bit and pushing an agenda?
"-15-25% = 180-300 million people dedicated to the destruction of western civilization; that's like the population of the United States"
good point, this is significant to understand, it's not just a few villages in the remote mountains, it's about as many people as we have in the continental United States
these quid pro quo equivocation arguments referencing the puritans and the crusades do not address this issue,
"180-300 million people dedicated to the destruction of western civilization" and their goal is to annihilate any apostate they identify, thereby enforcing subjugation by the threat of violence and death,
from one of the news stories about the school massacre in Pakistan: "They jumped up on the tables shouted "God is Great" then started shooting the children"
and there are 180 - 300 million zealots who think like this; (not just a couple of lone wolf oddballs)
"annihilate any apostate"
180 - 300 million people hate us with a passion and want us to convert or die. .
question is, what are we going to do about it?
btw, who wants to go to the movies with me? I want to go see "The Interview" (can't believe there is not a thread about it here.)
It's called math. If there are 1.2 billion muslims, and intelligence sources worldwide estimate 15%-25% of them are "radical", that is 180-300 million.
I understand the numbers are large, but IF you have some preconceived notion that "there's no way there could be that many radicals", I suggest perhaps it is YOU who has some bias.
Not believing something simply because it "seems unbelievable" is a very very dangerous game to play. That's how Nazi Germany was able to accomplish what they were- because "building camps to ship all the jews off to, where they will work until they die" is simply to horrible to believe. But it was happening. After the liberation of those camps, Allied soldiers marched the local population through those camps- so they could see what they allowed, and remember to never allow it to happen again.
I'd rather be pro-active and not get to that point...imo, plenty enough people have died at the hands of islamic radicals already.
And, if those numbers are even CLOSE to being accurate, you're talking WWIII.... altho a totally different kind of war than we have ever fought before, but a war nonetheless. This war can't only be fought with weapons, but must be fought with awareness of what is happening, education through any avenue we can to show people what the radicals are doing, this war is partly a war of the mind.... and the first step is showing people enough evidence so they finally understand, and believe, just how large this problem already is, and how much larger it could become if left unchecked.
9-11 was a wake-up call. On that day, Americans started to educate themselves. And I'm not just talking about the rah-rah lets bomb afghanistan into a parking lot... I'm talking people who have WOKEN UP and are PAYING ATTENTION.... people who see these terrorist attacks being reported EVERY DAY, people ...a generation... who is starting to understand how serious this problem is.
You're right JR, it is just math, namely statistics. All I'm saying is where's the evidence? With that many "radicals" surely there would be more visible crime that shows up in crime statistics(and on the news). Compare the Muslim population to crime by ethnicity and what do you find? An extremely minuscule number compared to what you are trying to sell. Your numbers make zero sense!
Quite frankly JR I think you've not only passed the edge of reasoning but have mutilated it beyond recognition. Yes there are radical people in the world, of which you can count yourself as one. What do you propose your neighbors do with you? The same thing you want to impose on those you fear???? You're getting crazy dude, seriously.
I have no idea what you are babbling about, but it seems to me you, like mg and ia, apparently want to remain ignorant on this issue. Unfortunately, the more people we have doing that, the more it imperils ALL of us.
I find it "radical" that just because YOU don't see enough evidence to make the numbers agree with your version of reality, that you believe it must not be happening. That is extreme, or should I say, radical, naiveté.
I'm certainly not looking for number that agree with me, because quite frankly I DON'T WANT THIS TO BE REALITY. Much easier if it weren't. Much easier to give a "pshaw", a wave off, and ignore it. The easy road.
As far as "showing up on the news"... the American mainstream media? Surely you jest. If you actually paid attention to MANY, WORLD news resources, you would see the stories come up almost every day, somewhere. Only when it is a school does the US media report on it. You should know better than to think you are actually being reported ALL the news by US resources.
Cute JR. No I don't think I, or IA or JIT, are ignorant on the issue just because you say so. Nor have I ever said that radical Islam does not present a current danger ---- think I was first to highlight the threat of the Syria issue, especially the financial funding aspect, and our need for active response.
But 180 - 300 million "million people dedicated to the destruction of western civilization; that's like the population of the United States," wow, we gonna need a bigger gun........
Fact is:
ISIS soldiers estimated at 30,000 to 50,000
Al Qaeda estimated at under 10,000 for persons who would claim membership which includes a good number of wannabees.
So where are the other 299,940,000?
Meanwhile, the biggest fear held by the biggest number of Islamic people in Islamic nations is radical Islam, especially. Apparently the thought of ISIS is worse than infidels.
I think if you actually look at the survey you summarized, you will perhaps find the question nuanced, like "have you ever had a less than negative thought about....." and the results generous as in "what are your feelings 1 to 5" where they add up 1 to 4 as "totally radical" capturing 80% of the sample.......
But if we are up against 300 million radical Islamic people dedicated to our destruction, then where are they since they are not in ISIS or Al Qaeda?
"Fact is:
ISIS soldiers estimated at 30,000 to 50,000
Al Qaeda estimated at under 10,000 for persons who would claim membership which includes a good number of wannabees."
"Fact"? LOL So it's a "fact" because YOU say so? Why are YOUR numbers any more accurate than the woman's in the link above? Because that's how YOU want it to be? LOL
JR, you've got a lot of nerve questioning figures. You've asserted that 15% to 25% of Muslims are radical. Please provide a source.
Good job hijacking this thread guys. Take your nonsense arguing somewhere else. Grown adults acting as if they are 10 years old is NOT appealing to some of us. This is absolutely ridiculous going back and forth so move onto somewhere else if you want to act like kids.
Gadly, *I* haven't asserted anything, the source is in the video link I posted above (that you apparently haven't watched?) . *I'm* not the one who has access to worldwide intelligence sources, *I'm* not the one who came up with those numbers.
But at least I GAVE a source, unlike our friend mg.
So, we can agree that these numbers that you've been repeating over and over again are completely unsubstantiated? Why are do you keep introducing them into the conversation, when there's no indication they have any validity?
I'll repeat AGAIN, for those of you who are slow on the uptake.... those are not MY numbers. I merely repeated them from a source, which I gave in the link above. Beyond that, do you own digging.
As far as "unsubstantiated", IS there any way to substantiate such a thing? The radial muslims aren't going to take census and let us know how many of them there are. So, in the big picture, ANY number ANYBODY comes up with is going to be a "best guess", and therefore, unsubstantiated. It seems many of you want to believe the unsubstantiated LOW numbers because it makes you feel better, while some of us would rather consider the larger number, hope for the best but PREPARE FOR THE WORST.
"So because a journalist says it in a youtube video it must be true?"
So because a journalist says it in a youtube video it must be FALSE?
So because mg says it on HL life it must be true?
If you guys are waiting on some kind of concrete number as to how many of them there are, see my post directly above.... you're going to be waiting a very long time.... like forever.
I find it absurd people are SO WILLING to accept UNsubstantiated numbers that "make them feel better", and so willing to ignore UNsubstantiated numbers that would scare them to death. Very telling.... the parallels with the beginnings of WWII are truly uncanny.
No, JR. It isn't automatically assumed false. But to use that as a source for statistics is laughable. How about a more credible source? If you're so sure that these numbers are accurate, it should be easy to find.
I tried looking myself, but couldn't find anything.
"I find it absurd people are SO WILLING to accept UNsubstantiated numbers that "make them feel better", and so willing to ignore UNsubstantiated numbers that would scare them to death. Very telling."
And you're doing the reverse! Don't you see that?
MB,
As I said- if you're truly that interested, start digging. Deeper. You'll note I'm not reporting those numbers from the video as "fact", as mg is doing with HIS guesses. I'm merely recognizing the distinct possibility the radical muslim population is MUCH larger than people realize, which is more objective than most people here, with their blinders on.
Just a thought-
One one side you have mg and his numbers, which are relatively miniscule. On the other side you have the numbers in the link I posted, which are world-changing.
Even if you consider both sources extremely biased and agenda-driven, and you split the difference, the numbers would still be terrifying and beyond extremely concerning.
I have been digging and this quote keeps coming up from your source above:
“a practising Muslim who goes to mosque every Friday, prays five times a day, and who believes that the Koran is the word of God, and who believes that Mohammed is the perfect man is a radical Muslim.”–Brigitte Gabriel, Australian News
So if that is the definition of a radical Muslim, then your statistics make a little more sense.
"180 - 300 million people hate us with a passion and want us to convert or die. .
question is, what are we going to do about it?" - BD
Probably start a Twitter hashtag so we can sit next to them on the bus, and make ourselves feel warm and fuzzy.
Rebecka Here is an example of debunking those inflated numbers. Note both the numerical difference as well as the "nuance" of who the data is selected.
Sources: http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/nov/05/ben-shapiro/shapiro-says-majority-muslims-are-radicals/
Source for "are Muslim countries concerned about ISIS et al"
http://thinkprogress.org/security/2013/09/11/2602361/poll-majority-muslims-worldwide-reject-extremism/
To find the totals for ISIS or Al Qaeda converts, just goggle total before either and numbers come up.
You don't have anything to say about Brigitte Gabriel's definition of a radical muslim? C'mon, I've been looking forward to how you'd spin that all morning.
Rebecka, maybe what we do is to tell the innocent that they won't be persecuted even though the emotionally unhinged among us would like that to be the case.
MB, I don't need to "spin" anything, and I have not stated Bridgette's numbers are "fact." But please, go back and re-consider my post about "splitting the difference".... even if she's wrong, and mg is wrong, just split the difference, and the numbers are still mind-boggling.
Heck, at 1.2 billion muslims, even if only 1% of muslims were jihadists, that's 12 million jihadists. Hardly a "drop in the bucket" that can be ignored. And totally reasonable/believable, when you actually pay attention to how widespread and violent they have gotten over the last 10 or so years. Just because CNN isn't reporting the DAILY atrocities doesn't mean they aren't happening. Being an American keeps us "insulated" from most of it, unless we go searching for the news reports ourselves, because the MSM is certainly doing an excellent job of ignoring most of it.
Hey, two wrongs don't make a right unless you agree to split the difference and then it's OK..........
Now we have 12 million Jihadist using the 1% rule.
That's 20 million Christian warriors against Islam
13 million racists
43 million Asian haters of round eyes
etc. etc. etc.
That's statistically speaking of course.
The problem with your "math", of course, is that there ARE NO "christian WARRIORS."
The Christians (and jews, and atheists, and agnostics, and druids, etc) are the VICTIMS- they are the one UNDER ATTACK.
This misconception that "christians hate muslims" or similar ideas needs to be put to bed- jihadists are equal-opportunity murderers. They don't care if you are a christian, or an atheist, or anything else: if you are not a muslim, you die. Any atheist or druid or anything else with half a brain would understand it's the radical muslims against EVERYBODY ELSE. "Christians" have no business being singled out in any way, unless you want to single them out as the victims who get the "special treatment" of being CRUCIFIED....
https://shariaunveiled.wordpress.com/2014/07/01/isis-crucifies-8-christians-in-syria-for-apostasy-from-islam/
Nah, never happens. From WIKI: "Following the killings in Norway by Anders Breivik in 2011, analyst Daryl Johnson of the United States Department of Homeland Security said that the Hutaree Christian militia movement possessed more weapons than the combined weapons holdings of all Islamic terror defendants charged in the US since the September 11 attacks"
Here's the one in Nigeria: http://www.loonwatch.com/2013/04/nigerian-christian-group-to-launch-terror-campaign-against-muslims-in-defense-of-christianity/
Of course, you probably don't believe the Pope either: http://www.jpost.com/Christian-News/Pope-blasts-Christian-Muslim-fundamentalists-while-leaving-Turkey-383405
JR's Direct quote from the "ISIS Beheads US Journalist" thread...
While I understand the point you are trying to make, when you have 1.6 billion carpenter ants who have sworn to destroy your home, you don't just go looking for the ones who are ACTUALLY destroying your home- it's can't be done. You kill them all. Or as many as you possibly can. Until the threat has been reduced to a size that does not require massive action.
yankeefan "Rebecka, maybe what we do is to tell the innocent that they won't be persecuted even though the emotionally unhinged among us would like that to be the case." - justintime
My sympathies lie with the victims of the Islamic terrorist who took them hostage, and their families and friends who are mourning their deaths. Not with Muslims who are afraid of potentially getting a sideways glance on their bus ride.
YF:
Not in THIS thread. You see, some of us actually grow and expand our knowledge base, opinions, and understanding of things. So some of us, actually learn, grow, and change our minds- or at least update our opinions as we receive more information.
Some of you, don't.
JR, so you've suddenly evolved? You are saying that over the past few weeks you've come to understand that genocide is bad? Laughable.
Rebecka, if some child was attacked by a violent pit bull, would you only have enough sympathy in your heart for the family of that child or would you have enough left over for all of the pit bulls who were demonized as a result who never harmed anyone in their lives?
yankeefan,
Let's do some "full disclosure" from that thread...
Other quotes of mine:
first, the paragraph directly after the one yankeefan posted: (CONTEXT is a wonderful thing):
"If a group of people (be it ISIS, or over-militarized police, or a gang of punks, or an intruder in my home), tells me that they are going to make me "swim in my own blood", it's kill or be killed. I prefer kill. Personally, I enjoy breathing. If someone tells me they ARE going to kill me, I'm not going to sit around and wait for the attempt. I'm going to kill them first. "
So- as you can see, I was not calling for genocide, just death to all the radicals. Which, I think you'l find, most people agree with me on... kill them before they kill us, which is what they have sworn to do.
"I'm not condemning all of Islam. "
here's an exchange from that thread, between me & YF:
[yankeefan said
"JR says there are 1.6 Billion Muslims in the world. And believes that each and every one belongs to ISIS."
Please indicate where I said that. You can't, because I haven't. So the rest of your post falls flat on it's face.]
"Nothing you have posted has me condemning all 1.6 billion muslims to death. The carpenter any analogy was of course used to demonstrate how impossible it would be to kill ONLY those ants destroying your property. It is likewise impossible to find and detain or kill ONLY (and ALL of) those muslims who have sworn death to America.
I did not say, and have never said "kill all the muslims."
As you can see, YF keeps attempting to profile me as saying something I have not said. Not in this thread or the other thread.
Your serve.
"You kill them all. Or as many as you possibly can. Until the threat has been reduced to a size that does not require massive action."
Your exact words. Your serve.
But you said that would be impossible:
"analogy was of course used to demonstrate how impossible it would be to kill ONLY those ants destroying your property. It is likewise impossible to find and detain or kill ONLY (and ALL of) those muslims who have sworn death to America."
You can't have it both ways, JR. Eat your peas.
I'm recognizing a couple of facts:
I (and I suspect most people) would like ALL the RADICALS dead, before they kill anyone else.
Trying to separate the radicals from the peaceful ones, at least over in the war zone, is a tough job and never perfect. We do the best we can.
Doing NOTHING because we might kill some peaceful muslims while killing all the radical muslims is not an acceptable path to take... the radicals cannot be left unchecked; unfortunately, in war actions, innocent people die. Yes- it's terrible, but that's part of war. And war will ALWAYS be with us, so I suggest you get used to it.
Philliesman Think about the definition of "radical" Philliesman and you'll quickly see the humor/sarcasm in the comment. Here's a clue: the definition is fairly broad...
My position is always the same: Deal with the *people* doing the deed, committing the crime, and take care to protect those who've done no harm. Unlike JR who thinks "collateral damage" is just peachy, I think accepting collateral damage makes us no better than the people we're bringing to justice. It's just not an acceptable policy, ever. Does it happen, of course. But to make it part of policy? To me, that's radical.
Those murdering in the name of Islam are becoming the poster children for the religion: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/ushome/index.html
Come on let's start the Muslim bashing everyone can do it except for the Catholics you still haven't cleaned your house yet like I said before religion is the root of all evil whether it's murdering innocent people or raping children it needs to go
"Catholics you still haven't cleaned your house yet"
Did Catholics kill 10+ people today (in one incident and specifically "defending" their religion) because of a cartoon in a newspaper?
Mark Mc, when ever there is a attack by Muslim extremists you can count on Old Red to somehow link it to Christians. I think this makes 3 this month alone, and each time the point he is trying to make becomes more absurd.
Posting here since the one about the attacks in France is locked. So now we add Denmark to the latest list of western countries under attack. This one seems to follow a similar pattern to France with the 2nd attack near the synagogue. Unfortunately authorities do not seem to have the identities of the shooters.
Update
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/copenhagen-shootings-danish-police-kill-suspect-deadly-terrorist-attack-n306481
SAD...................
Christine The country wasn't attacked, an individual and the group he was speaking to was targeted for hate actions masked as comedy.
This wasn't an act of ghostly terrorism, whatever the heck that is, it was an act of revenge.
Does anyone else feel like an emotional puppet when these stories are reported?
Close to a synagogue but targeting the cartoonist, don't think synagogue had much to do with it.
Obama was correct but talk about wrong place, wrong time, to open that discussion, yowser. As pointed out on HL, while true, it's kind of a incendary argument given the length of time passing versus current circumstances. Not to mention where he delivered it........pretty bozo move.
Saw a interesting one the other day speaking about the Dark Ages, and how the rise of the Vikings, (can anyone offer something the Vikings did that helped mankind?) with their low draft boats able to penetrate any city on any river (where most cities were) giving rise to the Knights which was good until the Knights stopped the Vikings. Now you have too many Knights with nothing to do and no other job skills. Bad time for peasants. So Pope Urban numero II comes up with the brilliant idea for The Crusades. And after 200 years, 9 or more Crusades, a couple million dead, the Christians ended up with zippo land and peoples acquisitions and a few trinkets. But they gained enough knowledge to kick start them out of the Dark Ages and into the Renaisannce. They gained trade routes, new roads, castle building techniques, water wheels, irrigation, arabic numbers, algebra, and chemistry. Not to mention new foods, household goods, and many other new ideas.
The Muslims got linen and woolen clothe.
So maybe we get lucky and out of this latest political-religious thuggery the Muslim world might get some new ideas like liberty, equality, freedom, and the right to the pursuit of individual happiness based on the rewards of individual skills, not birthright. Because while I believe the current actions are not religious, but instead a bunch of disenfranchised evil thugs to be squished like the slugs they are, the Muslim world even without it's fanatics is not a place of liberty, equality, free speech, open ideas nor the ability to embrace diversity. I hope perhaps the current events can move them to a place of greater tolerance, openess, and freedom.
Uh, JIT, the synagogue had nothing to do with the artist that was targeted. Just more Jew hating. Where's ijay? He must be really pleased with that, and the other useless fool, oldred.
lovebug the crusades were started earlier, (not by Pope Urban II) and were a direct response to the Muslim aggressions in Sicily, Spain and the area around Constantinople
it is spin to suggest the end of the viking age gave rise to the crusades, the viking age was still in full swing when the first crusades happened (1067 ad)
the obsessive compulsion by some to equivocate by blaming christianity for the horrors of this current religious conflict continues to amaze me
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