Christmas Creep is driving me mad...

Am I the only one getting really tired of seeing each year push the start of Christmas season deeper into November? I know there is a thread already about the number of stores opening on Thanksgiving and that stuff makes me sick too...but more than a week away from Thanksgiving I was already seeing people in town with Christmas lights on their houses, all lit up, and with their Christmas tree already up too! Can't we please just get through one holiday before we move on to the next? If I were king I would enact a rule that there will be no Christmas decoration before December 1st. Then, go nuts! But for goodness sake...

eperot eperot
Nov '13

totally agree!

5catmom 5catmom
Nov '13

I agree.Lets get thru our Thankful holiday first before we start thinking about the Christmas rush.

Christine Christine
Nov '13

I agree. I was surprised to see Main St with their wreaths on the light poles already. I don't recall them being up prior to Thanksgiving. Always after. If I'm wrong, please let me know (I'm sure someone will). I heard on the radio this morning that towns in Pa. are holding their tree lighting ceremonies this weekend.

botheredbyuu
Nov '13

With Thanksgiving being the way it is this year many towns are having their Christmas celebrations early. In town the wreaths are up because we depend on people to do it and that's when they can do it. I don't mind that it was this week BUT I saw trees and Christmas items for sale at the end of September. That's ridiculous.

Christine Christine
Nov '13

I think we see Valentines stuff longer. It will start the day after Christmas and will last until Feb 14. That's almost 10 weeks, the same holiday in the same year. Last Feb. '13 and the end of December '13. I know for sure Halloween starts end of August. Sick!

auntiel auntiel
Nov '13

I'm sorry but I have to laugh...when I first read the title "Christmas Creep is driving me mad" the first thing that came to mind was some creepy Santa running around. Lol!

I agree with everyone that Christmas is rushed, to the point where I can't even enjoy it like I used to.

positive positive
Nov '13

Wow... I think we might have found something ALL OF US agree on!!

The bigger the season becomes, the less special it is. All for money. Which is not what Christmas is about in the first place.

JeffersonRepub JeffersonRepub
Nov '13

I love Thanksgiving decoration - harvest patterns, orange/brown colors. So beautiful. It looks like everything was decorated for Halloween and suddenly for Christmas. Where is Thanksgiving?


Agree. It's ridiculous. The retailers do it to encourage us to buy things, but why a household would put out Christmas lights a full 10 days before Thanksgiving is beyond me.

Rebecka Rebecka
Nov '13

I love this time of year but I agree that it all starts too early in November. I love Thanksgiving. It gives us time to stop and think about all that we have to be thankful for. Hope everyone has a great Thanksgiving!!!

MommaJ MommaJ
Nov '13

I am very confused. It is ridiculous Christmas is starting earlier and earlier every year. Yet all you hear from the quitter in Alaska is that there is a war on Christmas. I think the war is on Thanksgiving but making people work on Thanksgiving is good for big business so she will keep her mouth shut on that one.

oldred
Nov '13

Thanks for this thread. I've been annoyed about this all afternoon. I saw a cute onesie for the baby online that was for Thanksgiving and it was supposedly in stock in our local Target. Well no. I'm at that store at least once a week and I never saw it. Never saw a single Thanksgiving item of clothing, yet the Christmas stuff has been there since the day after Halloween. What I don't understand, is among 5 or 6 employees, none of them could tell me exactly what happened to these items, if they in fact ever existed. Two swore they saw them just yesterday, another said they got rid of the Thanksgiving stuff with the Halloween stuff. Huh? But then none of it was on clearance.

Tracy Tracy
Nov '13

Agreed 100 %, especially when I read the post about Santa already being missed at Mt. Lake Firehouse, WHAT????? How can he be missed, it isn't even Thanksgiving!!

JrzyGirl88 JrzyGirl88
Nov '13

the thanksgiving - christmas spread is 6 days shorter this year so retailers started 11/1.

skippy skippy
Nov '13

Hey Oldred, no need to bring Sarah Palin into this thread. Seems like you can't help yourself.

kb2755 kb2755
Nov '13

Old red... really....sigh.... typical... I feel very sorry for you......I agree with most on this thread..Thanksgiving kicked to the curb....why because of greed,and commercialism...Mammaj,Im with you!

G-ma
Nov '13

OK, back on track now...no politics please :)

I just think it is a sad turn of events when the most commercial of all holidays (Christmas) begins to snuff out the blissful anti-commercialism of the one uniquely American holiday. I mean, what could be more fantastic than a day devoted to staying at home with your loved ones to enjoy a meal and give thanks for the many good things we have that truly matter? And how sad that the specialness is being tarnished by turning it into just another shopping day, as if we couldn't do that the other 364 days a year.

My neighbor last year inquired why I put my Christmas tree up so late (theirs will be up the day after Thanksgiving) and I tried to explain that I grew up with a German mother and in Germany it is typical to decorate the tree on Christmas Eve. As it is, my wife and I put ours up about a week before Christmas. But what I really wanted to say is that I am trying desperately to hold onto a feeling of joy about the season that I felt as a child, a joy that wears out easily when one needs to stretch it out for a solid month.

eperot eperot
Nov '13

Theres a house in Diamond Hill that had their Christmas tree up in their house 3 days ago...ugh...

Now THIS is a wonderful Christmas story, and a valid reason to have it early...

http://www.christianpost.com/news/entire-ohio-town-puts-on-early-christmas-party-for-13-year-old-before-he-dies-of-brain-cancer-mayor-says-god-is-watching-over-him-108712/

JeffersonRepub JeffersonRepub
Nov '13

Re: Christmas Creep is driving me mad...

Here you go eprot, just saw it on FB.

auntiel auntiel
Nov '13

Eperot ~ we also put our tree up the week before Christmas (real one). My dad's parents always put the tree up Christmas Eve after the kids were in bed. When they woke up on Christmas Day, Santa had brought the tree and the presents.

JrzyGirl88 JrzyGirl88
Nov '13

Maybe we should celebrate Thanksgiving with our neighbors to the north - in Canada Thanksgiving is our Columbus Day - 2nd Sunday/Monday in October. Then we'd beat out Halloween and Christmas.

Santa has been at area malls since November 16-17 weekend. My neighbors never take their outside lights down - but their tree is up (Nov. 15) and additional outside lights are up ready to go. Weather may have been a factor why they put them up so early?

3cats 3cats
Nov '13

Our tree goes up about a week before Christmas and the decorations for inside and outside go up about 2 weeks before. Some people do it earlier because if we have a warm weekend day, that's the best time. Closer to Christmas, the weekends are too cold for some to be outside putting up lights and blow-ups.

botheredbyuu
Nov '13

We took advantage of the 'warm' weather today and put up our outside lights, all 10,000 of them. The thing we didn't count on is the wind, but we managed, and the lights look great :)

Lori...since '73 Lori...since '73
Nov '13

Re: Christmas Creep is driving me mad...

me too

5catmom 5catmom
Nov '13

it does feel like thanksgiving is totally skipped over... probably because it's not as big of a money maker. I went to michaels about a week before halloween to see about getting scarecrows and they were all gone - everything was Christmas themed already. I actually really like the wreaths up downtown though in time for thanksgiving. gets me into more of a holiday spirit and my out of town guests commented on how nice they are.

Poppy Girl
Nov '13

Bah Humbug !

& kids get out of my yard!


Stop looking at the commercial side of Christmas and enjoy the spirit of the holiday season. The commercial side you can't change let it go, celebrate the meaning of each holiday. I'm actually enjoying listening to the holiday music before Thanksgiving, it's relaxing. And by no means does it take away from Thanksgiving it enhances the meaning. I'm enjoying the holiday season on my terms....

outsider outsider
Nov '13

I had shared a link to a Groupon on FB for a Christmas- themed Haunten House- mostly as a joke- but now have about a dozen assorted people making plans to go to it. I thought the Santa in the attic at Land Of Make Believe would have qualified;)

Blackcat Blackcat
Nov '13

@Outsider, certainly a positive spin on it, nice to read for a change. I also enjoy the Christmas music whenever it gets played and I too, try to take the commercialism out of it. I refuse to fall victim to the if so and so spent this much on me, then I have to spend the same on them. I buy and give what I can afford and try to make things personal as gifts. Also loving the season on my terms :)

Bessie Bessie
Nov '13

I agree Bessie.

Personally, however, I can't stand the incessant bombardment of Christmas themed commercialism. It's very hard to get away from it because it's so "in your face" everywhere you go.

justintime justintime
Nov '13

Re: Christmas Creep is driving me mad...

let me eat my turkey first

skippy skippy
Nov '13

@eperot….Oh, stop being such a grinch. To each their own. I have my tree up already and indoor decorations. Last night I was snuggled by the fireplace, christmas tree lights on and enjoying the peacefulness of it all while it was freezing cold outside and snowing. It's my favorite holiday of the year and if I want to stretch it out a bit I'm entitled to do so. Hey, if it makes you happy why shouldn't we do what we want? Worry about your own holiday decorating and let other families decorate how and when they want to. If I was having Thanksgiving dinner at my house this year I wouldn't have put it but since not, I choose to do what makes me happy and I don't give a damn what my neighbors think about it.

villani villani
Nov '13

I'm not being a Grinch...I'm simply saying that the mad push to celebrate Christmas earlier each year detracts from the specialness of the day itself. And from Thanksgiving. I can't tell you how many people I hear saying "I can't wait until Christmas is over already" because by the time it arrives, they've heard Bing Crosby 10,000 times, seen too many people gifting a Lexus with a big bow on TV, had stores and houses decorated for months and are generally burnt out by it all.

Obviously, you have the right to do whatever you want. All I'm saying is...I have the right to complain about it. :)

eperot eperot
Nov '13

Tis the season to be jolly :)

Bessie Bessie
Nov '13

"Bah! Humbug"! o;)

positive positive
Nov '13

@eperot...you allow the mad rush of Christmas to detract from the specialness of the day. Stop buying into the commercial Christmas and focus on the reason for holidays.

@Bessie......happy you are celebrating on your terms too!

outsider outsider
Nov '13

It will be over before you know it! Only 2 more paydays before Chistmas.

http://www.xmasclock.com/


Bah Humbug from Positive, why I didn't think that went with name, LOL!
@Maja..I know, the 2 paychecks is what's scaring me..YIKES

Bessie Bessie
Nov '13

I love, love Christmas Bessie...I was just kidding. Lol! :)

Only two paychecks? I didn't think of that...now I'm feeling the pressure.

positive positive
Nov '13

30 days til Christmas! Now can we start? LOL

Its when everything comes out in September that gets me!

Christine Christine
Nov '13

December is a very busy expensive month for me! Dec 14th- father in-law's b-day, Dec 15th- mother in-law's b-day, Dec 16th- my b-day, Dec 19th- both my husband's and daughter's b-day! Oh and let's not forget Christmas! Lol! o:)

positive positive
Nov '13

Positive I have the same problem. 4 birthdays plus Christmas. Unfortunately we are just buying for the grandkids this year. Tough year to hold our head above water let alone buy presents. We plan on celebrating from the heart.

Christine Christine
Nov '13

explain this one to me, someone on my street put up a giant blowup Turkey for Thansgiving only to take it down this weekend and put up his Christmas decorations. Why go thru the trouble of decorating for Thanksgiving if you are going to take it down before the date!!! He couldn't wait an extra week?

darwin darwin
Nov '13

Christine from the heart is the best way to celebrate. :)

outsider outsider
Nov '13

outsider and Christine- I agree...that's what Christmas should be about anyway.

darwin- That is strange! Lol

positive positive
Nov '13

Who "decorates" for Thanksgiving? Last time I saw Pilgrim and Turkey decorations... I think I was in grade school.

iPhone-imal iPhone-imal
Nov '13

@positive and Christine..add my birthday your busy list of the season,
It's December 20th

Bessie Bessie
Nov '13

LOL imal,

All i know there was a 12ft giant blow up turkey on my street and now it has been replaced by christmas lights..Maybe he shot it and is preparing it for Thanksgiving dinner :)

darwin darwin
Nov '13

LOL@ Darwin.....I agree a waste!

Thanks everyone. We plan on writing letters to each other about how they have influenced our life and make a homemade gift for each other.

Christine Christine
Nov '13

Glad we are one of those that gets paid weekly.

botheredbyuu
Nov '13

"explain this one to me, someone on my street put up a giant blowup Turkey for Thansgiving only to take it down this weekend"

Darwin

Just a guess but maybe it had to do with the powerful winds we had this weekend. I know a lot of stuff blew around my yard. I can just imagine what it would do to a12ft giant blow up turkey. Again, it's just a guess since I am not your neighbor.

BLD3
Nov '13

Don't forget that Hanukkah starts this Thursday. So that adds to the overshadowing of Thanksgiving.


Actually, Hanukkah begins in the evening of Wednesday.


A friend went to Italy for Christmas last year. She said it was the best Christmas experience she's had in years. Focus was all on family and sharing a meal, not on gift giivng.
I still get that little childhood bound of joy in my tummy when Christmas is coming.. but it wears off too quickly now, impossible to sustain for 2 months, and there were Christmas decorations out before Halloween.
We're trying to reduce the focus on gifts and have more experiences, like going to a play, and decorating a gingerbread house together, hand made gifts- a Hands and Heart Christmas.. but feel like salmon going the wrong way!

hktownie hktownie
Nov '13

YES to the words of George Takei

When stores like Wal-Mart move their Black Friday sales to Thanksgiving Day, they truly have forgotten the purpose of the holiday--and cynically ask their employees to leave their loved ones, too.

Stay with your families on Thursday, friends. Cook and eat together. Watch a football game or a family movie. Call your relatives. Don't waste your precious day off standing in lines or fighting crowds in malls.
--Uncle George

5catmom 5catmom
Nov '13

I think it's crazy it's goes from Halloween to Christmas I'm very disappointed that all the stores are opening on Thanksgivings, for black Friday, I or my family will taking a stand not to go shopping on Thanksgivings, that is a day for family and friends, and I feel sorry for the employee's that have to leave there family to go work, do you think the CEO will be out NO every one is rushing the holidays even the Christmas shows are on before Thanksgiving


Most of you are giving your own views. My perspective is from my kids. We try to keep the tradition of putting our tree up in Dec to coincide with the Advent Calendar. But when our neighbors hung and lit their lights after Halloween, it created a firestorm of complaints. We talked it over, and the kids agreed with keeping the meaning of Christmas and it's tradition intact for our family.
I know someone on here said they don't give a damn what the neighbors think, but it's that attitude that destroys the Christmas spirit with in us, and outwardly toward our neighbors. That being said, enjoy your Thanksgiving and have a Wonder Christmas season.

USAfirst USAfirst
Nov '13

I just put my Christmas lights up and it's November 18 about right as far as I'm concerned.


Sometimes I wonder if it makes my neighbors mad because it is a very bright display and I love it. New neighbors so am wondering I guess just go ask.


I have been doing the opposite of Christmas Creep. I tend to procrastinate so much, even though I was able to get the tree up the week before Christmas, I didn't decorate it till Christmas Eve. But to answer the OP, yes, I hate this being shoved down our throats earlier and earlier every year. I actually try to avoid stores that do this to us. Two weeks ago I saw an entire yard already lit up and decorated. The idiot had a digital Christmas Countdown clock in the yard, but it was showing 30 days till Christmas. Which means that even the Chinese who make these things don't think anybody would be so foolish to put it out prior to 30 days before Christmas.

Bruin Bruin
Nov '14

we all need to put the Christ back into Christmas,

need to separate out what is man's (the commercial side and all the hustle-busltle) and then render to god what is god's, our faith in Christ. celebrating the gift of a lifetime.

i try and do both every year, and make sure those around me are aware of the two components, so put up your lights, put up your trees, but remember why we do it, to celebrate the good gift we have received from on high.

so let's try and put Christ back into Christmas this year,

good idea?

BrotherDog BrotherDog
Nov '14

There are some fields of employment that working is mandatory, hospital workers and othe medical field positions for one. I'm sure many doctors' dinners have been interrupted due to an emergency. Sadly restaurant employees have to leave their families to serve other families. And there are a few other career choices that require working on holidays. But retail is not one of them!! No one HAS to shop on a holiday. Give those poor people a break. I know some people are alone or just don't celebrate for whatever their reason, but they do not have to go to the mall!!

Tanya Tanya
Nov '14

"No one HAS to shop on a holiday. "

No has to watch TV or drink alcohol (and then drive home) either but people have been doing it for decades and because of it, tv station employees, EMT, and the police have to work. Unfortunately, retail is the enemy because it's easier to give up for those who criticize.

emaxxman emaxxman
Nov '14

A lot of people who work retail don't get paid holidays and NEED the money...

ianimal ianimal
Nov '14

"we all need to put the Christ back into Christmas"

No, we "all" don't. Speak only for yourself, please. And from what you wrote, Christ has never left *your* Christmas, so what's the point of your post... to dictate to others how THEY should choose to celebrate? That's pretty officious of you.

ianimal ianimal
Nov '14

@ ianimal: "officious?" ...good word for another thread just started on HL...

joyful joyful
Nov '14

ONE holiday at a time would be...nice. I get thru Thanksgiving before starting Xmas. I ignore all things Xmas until after Thanksgiving (Black Friday, at the earliest.)

When I saw Halloween stuff coming DOWN and Xmas stuff going up at Home Depot... BEFORE HALLOWEEN had even arrived, I knew that a new level of annoying Christmas Creep had been reached.

JeffersonRepub JeffersonRepub
Nov '14

My pet peeve this time of year is, not only do homes have Thanksgiving and Christmas decorations up, but some still have their Halloween decorations!! WT?!

honey badger honey badger
Nov '14

So right JR. It went from Halloween ( which really isnt a holiday-no one gets "Halloween" break or day off) right to Christmas. Thanksgiving always gets overlooked by a lot of people and businesses. I work retail and we are closed on Tgiving. If not, I'd probably get fired, because I would not work.

botheredbyuu2 botheredbyuu2
Nov '14

Thanksgiving doesn't necessarily get "overlooked"... but it's not really a "commercial" holiday in that you don't buy "Thanksgiving gifts" for people or wear a "Thanksgiving costume" (typically... I'm sure there are some who have a custom of dressing up as Pilgrims and Wampanoag for Thanksgiving, but they're definitely in the minority), or hand out "Thanksgiving candy" that stores need to entice you to buy. Look at all the recent grocery store circulars, though... do you see one that doesn't have a giant turkey on the front of it?

ianimal ianimal
Nov '14

may god bless you ianimal, be well, i feel you are getting closer on your journey, keep looking for answers, you will find them

christ is in christmas, it happens to be quite true, look for him and you will find him

BrotherDog BrotherDog
Nov '14

There is no god, BD... but, all of my sincere best wishes to you and yours and enjoy the holiday season by celebrating in whatever manner you choose.

ianimal ianimal
Nov '14

BD - Not everyone is interested in finding Christ. If that's your deal, that's great. I'm an atheist, but I still give out Christmas gifts, so for me it doesn't have a religious meaning at all.

The one thing I dislike most about religion, are those who try to push their beliefs onto others. I won't tell you not to believe, so don't tell me I should believe. :-)

Calico696 Calico696
Nov '14

People believe differently. Cant say there is no god. Thats just your opinion. People should not think THEIR belief is the right one.

botheredbyuu2 botheredbyuu2
Nov '14

I wasn't even aware that Christ was lost and that I was supposed to be looking for him. Maybe BD should put out a "Where's Jesus" book and hide him in the background of different pictures if he really wants people to look for him?

ianimal ianimal
Nov '14

Happy Festivus everyone!

Mark Mc. Mark Mc.
Nov '14

"Cant say there is no god."

I can when someone deigns to say "may god bless you ianimal" when he already knows what I believe in that respect. Otherwise, I wouldn't typically bother pointing out my belief on the subject.

ianimal ianimal
Nov '14

Zzzz..........

botheredbyuu2 botheredbyuu2
Nov '14

gottcha calico, and you too ian, i know not everyone is interested in finding Christ, i have found that some in this life are searching for answers and not always realizing that they are doing so, (it's not always true, but it sometimes is)

so taking the risk, i am just putting it out there for consideration, that's all, i mean it is his birthday , right?

and that's the genesis of the holiday, correct? christ's birthday?

that's why it's called Christ-mas

i get your points and it's all good, bring on the festivities, the lights, the presents, the food , the booze, (and the cookies) but at the end of the day think about it, that's all, not trying to offend anyone, but that's the risk we take when we share our beliefs,

everyone is given free choice to make up their own minds, so with all the love and respect i can offer, i share with "clear eyes and a full heart", (yes, it's a quote from friday night lights, but that works for me)

BrotherDog BrotherDog
Nov '14

"People should not think THEIR belief is the right one."

Um...Houston, we have a problem.

emaxxman emaxxman
Nov '14

Emaxxman-I meant people have to respect others beliefs. Not everyone will agree.

botheredbyuu2 botheredbyuu2
Nov '14

Yet Christmas is not mentioned once in the BIBLE

darwin darwin
Nov '14

Re: Christmas Creep is driving me mad...

You told ian he couldn't express his "opinion" and dismissed the validity of his statement because it was only an opinion. That goes against your intended sentiment (which I agree with btw.)

Personally I do believe in Jesus and thank him all the time.

emaxxman emaxxman
Nov '14

I've read many times that the supposed birth of Jesus was not even in December.

Calico696 Calico696
Nov '14

"Emaxxman-I meant people have to respect others beliefs. Not everyone will agree."

That's pretty funny considering you obviously don't respect my belief that there is no god. Otherwise, why would you tell me that I can't say it?

ianimal ianimal
Nov '14

as far as i know we cannot be certain of the month he was born, that's true,
and darwin, a lot of things are not mentioned in the bible, what's your point? that we are not to celebrate the birth of Christ? why not?

BrotherDog BrotherDog
Nov '14

That's right Calico. Most fact-based analysis points to September based on visual clues in the Bible.

December was originally a time of pagan celebration - Saturnalia. As Christianity spread, Christians found it difficult to get others to adopt a celebration for the birth of Christ. As a result, they co-opted the Saturnalia celebration as the celebration of Christ's birth.

Historically, Christmas has been a religious celebration. If those who are religious want to keep it that way, that's OK. If there are those who want to celebrate it in a non-religious manner, that's OK too.

emaxxman emaxxman
Nov '14

i'm just pointing out that i find it strange that THE book dedicated to the life of Christ does not document the exact date he was born. You would think that would be a key fact to include.

darwin darwin
Nov '14

You misunderstood me. Didnt mean you couldn't say it. I felt you were saying there is no God, so why do others believe there is. That what YOU believe is the only thing people should believe. Thats what I thought you meant. Sorry about that.

botheredbyuu2 botheredbyuu2
Nov '14

Sure BD, celebrate every day if that's what you want to do. My point (and I think Darwin's as well.......I'm sure he'll will correct me if I'm wrong) was that Christmas is basically a made up holiday, like Halloween and Valentine's Day. It really has no direct connection with the birth of Christ or the teachings of the Bible.

Calico696 Calico696
Nov '14

LOL @ emaxx's photo!

Calico696 Calico696
Nov '14

Christmas is the result of the co-opting of the pagan Yuletide celebration, which consisted of 12 days of feasting, beginning on "Mother's Night", December 25th. Many of the symbols and activities of the Yuletide celebration carry on to this day... evergreen trees, Yule logs, mistletoe, singing of Yule songs (Wassailing), gift giving, etc.

Jesus was dead for 400 years before the Pope officially set December 25th as his birthday. Many historians believe that he was actually born sometime else, based on the accounts of the story. For instance, there's no way shepherds would be sleeping in the fields with their sheep in December.

http://www.ucg.org/doctrinal-beliefs/biblical-evidence-shows-jesus-christ-wasnt-born-dec-25/

ianimal ianimal
Nov '14

"I wasn't even aware that Christ was lost and that I was supposed to be looking for him."

well , yes, and i hear you, that's why i brought it up in this discussion, i'm urging everyone to find the christ that is sometimes 'hidden' in the christmas season. hidden in all the hustle-bustle of lights, sounds, food and drink, but if you look, he is in there.


"Maybe BD should put out a "Where's Jesus" book and hide him in the background of different pictures if he really wants people to look for him?" "

that's what i'm doing right here in this thread, can you find him? he's here. open up your heart and your mind and look around, you will find him if you do.

be well,

BrotherDog BrotherDog
Nov '14

Well, at least you're staying on-topic... this is getting "creepier" by the minute. Please don't proselytize to me. I know that you may feel some personal obligation to try and "save" people based on your own beliefs and that's fine, if it's welcomed by the other party. But, in this case, it's not. Please don't.

ianimal ianimal
Nov '14

no need to correct you Calico, we're on the same page.

darwin darwin
Nov '14

Why do topics on this site always "morph" into something else? We were not discussing whether one does or does not believe in God, but whether retail establishments rush a buying season/ holiday by overlooking another (Thanksgiving).

JBJSKJ JBJSKJ
Nov '14

ok, got it, thanks

BrotherDog BrotherDog
Nov '14

"We were not discussing whether one does or does not believe in God, but whether retail establishments rush a buying season/ holiday by overlooking another (Thanksgiving)."

There's no return on the money and effort that stores would expend by "decorating for Thanksgiving". Would people buy more turkeys and stuffing if grocery stores paid their employees to hang Pilgrim decorations? What about other stores, like Walmart or Target? What real economic return do they get from Thanksgiving items? "Oh, look honey... there's a fake Indian... that reminds me... I need a new turkey fryer... we burnt down the deck with our old one..."

This year, I actually almost appreciate the early Christmas displays since we'll be celebrating early this year. Sheanimal is scheduled to have our second child on December 26th, so we'll be celebrating Christmas either the weekend before Christmas or even the weekend before that possibly. I'll be putting up the tree the day after Thanksgiving when I usually wait for the middle of December.

ianimal ianimal
Nov '14

IDK if this thread morphed into something different. Every year it is the same:

There is a "War on Christmas" especially if you watch fox news, yet the Christmas season keeps getting longer and longer each year.

darwin darwin
Nov '14

there's some right here who are taking part in that war darwin, Christ-mass (or the Mass for Christ) is denied and dismissed by too many i think, what do you think?

BrotherDog BrotherDog
Nov '14

I think Christians should celebrate their holiday as they see fit, and leave the rest of alone. There's no war on Christmas. No one is preventing churches from having services, or believers from putting up Nativity scenes in their own yards, and regardless of what Fox News would have you believe the phrase "Merry Christmas" is not against the law.

I think Christians should also understand that in public places, including workplaces, that not everyone is Christian. And that the desire to be inclusive to these people (i.e., the dreaded "holiday tree") is not a condemnation or diminishing of their faith, but simply a desire to include people of all beliefs in the festivities.

That's what I think. I know you didn't ask me specifically but that's what I think of the "war on Christmas" and "war on Christians" in general.

Aquarius Aquarius
Nov '14

Well said, Aquarius.

ianimal ianimal
Nov '14

Back on topic, I Love Christmas and all that it brings. I love shopping for gifts, I love decorating the house and putting up my Christmas Tree and I love the meaning of Christmas. I start my shopping early because I like to have a selection of items rather than picked-through leftovers. Christmas creep, although Sept/Oct is a little early, doesn't make me sad, what does is the day after, you go to the store and you wouldn't know it was just celebrated yesterday. Valentines are being put up and soon to follow, Easter bunnies. It isn't just Christmas creep, it is any holiday creep. It is all for the bottom line.

justwondering justwondering
Nov '14

Re: Christmas Creep is driving me mad...

Working in retail, anything nice is always appreciated.

Andrew's Mom Andrew's Mom
Nov '14

I agree, just wondering and Andrew's Mom!
No need for more strife at this special time of the year.
It's the heart condition that speaks the loudest...

Spring Fever Spring Fever
Nov '14

We are becoming a cold and unfriendly society and I would just wish that people could just accept our differences without being so sensitive. I do wish people Merry Christmas and if you don't celebrate it, let me have my moment of joy. If you want to wish me whatever you celebrate, I would accept it happily.

justwondering justwondering
Nov '14

One of my Jewish friends calls or texts me to wish me a Happy Rosh Hashanah and a Happy Hanukkah every year. It doesn't bother me in the least. I just say, "Thanks, you too." What's the big deal? I'm glad he thinks of me and includes me in his good wishes.

Calico696 Calico696
Nov '14

yep to that calico, and thanks Aquarius, i think we are in agreement on this. i was wondering what Darwin thinks about it? (since he brought up the 'war' term)

BrotherDog BrotherDog
Nov '14

I don't have a problem with a "holiday tree", but I DO have a problem with REPLACING a Christmas Tree with a holiday tree. I am against homogenization of Christmas. I agree we should all be TOLERANT, but that does not mean we have to change OUR Christmas to include others.

IMO, a public display would have items of Christian AND Jewish (and whatever else) faiths, instead of EXCLUDING them ALL for some generic "holiday" display that means nothing to no one. That is total exclusion, not inclusion.

JeffersonRepub JeffersonRepub
Nov '14

Re: Christmas Creep is driving me mad...

If anything, it seems we've declared a War on Thanksgiving. I think I also found the Christmas Creep...and he sure is creepy.

emaxxman emaxxman
Nov '14

agreed spring fever, too much strife, no need for it, it detracts from a peaceful, joyous, and meaningful christmas,

BrotherDog BrotherDog
Nov '14

What about other times of the year, JR? Are you going to put up displays every time a Wiccan holiday rolls around? I think there are about 8 of them spaced throughout the year. What about Buddhist and Hindu holidays? You would need to build an extra building just to hold all the displays you would need to store and you would have to hire a public employee whose only job is putting up and taking down displays for every religion that mankind has ever invented. Is a public Christmas Tree (which is really a pagan Yuletide custom and not "Christian" at all) really worth all that hassle?

ianimal ianimal
Nov '14

It sure does, Brother Dog!
Everyone have a blessed Thanksgiving.

Spring Fever Spring Fever
Nov '14

i have no problem BR with people wishing me a Merry Christmas, or Happy Holiday. My Jewish Brother-in-law wishes me a Happy Hanukkah every year as well. I tend to wish my clients a happy holiday just cause it's easier. But i am not trying to get everyone to use happy holidays,

I do find it silly when i see someone gets offended when they are wished a happy holiday instead of a merry christmas. I've seen customers in line ahead of me actually lecture the cashier or make a snarky comment when the cashier wishes them a happy holiday. Seems like a non issue to me.

darwin darwin
Nov '14

I always took the phrase "Happy Holidays" to mean the wishing of both a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, not an attempt to avoid saying Merry Christmas.

Calico696 Calico696
Nov '14

ia,

I couldn't care less- if the Wiccans want to put up a Yule display, fine. As far as other holidays/times of the year, the only other holiday I can think of that is religious in nature is Easter/Passover. If the Wiccans have a holiday then, fine. Whatever.

If the Wiccans putting up a Yule display next to the Atheists putting up a Festivus pole means the Christian Nativity and Jewish Menorah can be displayed, I'm fine with that.

Or would the atheists just put up a large blank white board? ;)

JeffersonRepub JeffersonRepub
Nov '14

We're talking about "public" displays funded by "public" dollars (at least I thought we were). The Wiccans don't have to do anything but insist that the municipality put something up for each of their eight holidays if public dollars are going to be spent putting up Christian-specific displays on Christian holidays. The Hindus and the Buddhists and the Muslims could all insist on the same thing.

ianimal ianimal
Nov '14

Oh, public DOLLARS is another matter. I'm just talking about the principle of the whole "inclusion" vs "exclusion" thing.

But then, there's ALOT of stuff *I* don't want public money spent on....

JeffersonRepub JeffersonRepub
Nov '14

For example...

if a group of Christians wants to put up a Nativity in the public square/town park, and they are paying for it, I say let them do it. And ditto to all religions/holidays. I'd rather see culture... including religious culture... celebrated rather than stifled. Personally, the fact that is it public land has no bearing whatsoever on the whole "separation of church and state" argument, since the govt is not doing it or paying for it.

And, if the majority of the town has a problem with that, have a meeting, and make a judgement.... if most people like the holiday displays, keep them. If most people don't, disallow them.

The atheists is where this gets sticky, because they HAVE NOTHING to display.... not my problem. They are excluding THEMSELVES. And thats fine. But just because they feel left out (of their own doing), they don't have right to expect the rest of the people to stop displaying their religious culture, even if it is on public land (again, so long as public dollars are not paying for it). They can erect a "Happy December" sign, or a festivus pole, or a see-thru box of "nothing" if they want to.

JeffersonRepub JeffersonRepub
Nov '14

Happy Thanksgiving to all, no matter who you give thanks to. We are a blessed Country.

Old Gent Old Gent
Nov '14

I have never heard of an atheist complaining about feeling left out at Christmas. You make this crap up as you go....


MB, semantics. Atheists are the biggest proponents of scrubbing religion from everything "public." Why? Because they are trying to ban the stupidity of those who "need a crutch"? (oh, how superior)...... or Because they think they are right, and everyone must agree with them? ,(sounds like another "religion" I know that is currently attempting world domination.....)

And I'm not stereotyping ALL atheists. Just the loud, troublesome ones. LOL I know atheists who are every bit as tolerant as I am on this issue. Any Christian who thinks Christian holiday displays are ok and everyone else should shut up and go away, is a bigot and a hypocrite.

JeffersonRepub JeffersonRepub
Nov '14

"if a group of Christians wants to put up a Nativity in the public square/town park, and they are paying for it, I say let them do it. "

So, then Satanists can display whatever they want in a public park as long as they pay for it? Is that really your opinion? Blasphemous imagery that would be highly offensive to Christians? Perfectly ok?

ianimal ianimal
Nov '14

"I have never heard of an atheist complaining about feeling left out at Christmas."

Come on, they even wrote a book about it:

http://www.amazon.com/How-To-Enjoy-Christmas-Atheist/dp/1440023662

Mark Mc. Mark Mc.
Nov '14

Public land should not be used to promote or denigrate any religion in any manner whatsoever. Period.

If a private company wants to put up a Christmas tree and call it a Christmas tree, it should be allowed to. It's a private company. If it wants to call it a Holiday tree. It should be allowed to. It's a private company.

I agree with JR here with regards to the exclusion rather than inclusion of cultures.

emaxxman emaxxman
Nov '14

As a Christian I would not be offended. It would be a teaching moment, ianimal. Society decides what is permissible with their vote and today it seems everything is offensive to some ONE PERSON thanks to the ACLU. There the ones that are so very offended about everything and society through its courts is letting them win.
Liberals say things are covered by the public good rules but morals are not.
Just saying.

Old Gent Old Gent
Nov '14

I don't understand Old Gent's criticism of the ACLU. You can find a list of ACLU actions in support the free exercise of religion here and note that many of these actions support the free exercise of religion in public spaces.

http://www.aclufightsforchristians.com/


Why interupt a good rant with facts.

Darwin Darwin
Nov '14

perhaps Aunt Chippy's lesson in package wrapping will help: https://www.google.com/search?q=aunt+chippy+how+to+wrap+a+present&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb

5catmom 5catmom
Nov '14

To RAD The second line defends your find but it wasn't always that way.

https://www.aclu.org/blog/religion-belief/no-laughing-matter-government-prayer-and-second-class-citizenship

http://www.newsmax.com/BillDonohue/war-Christmas-ACLU-FFRF/2012/12/19/id/468416/

Old Gent Old Gent
Nov '14

Agree with Calico: I work in a doctors office and when I scheduled patients appointments to return after the new year I wish them "Happy Holidays". Those holidays include Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Years and any other holiday you choose to celebrate.

Tweety Tweety
Nov '14

Actually atheists have their holiday - it's called "New Year". If the main issue is with "display"..... Turn TV on and see whats going around the world and US (NYC is a clear example) to celebrate New Year.


Yeah that book really looks like a hot seller, Mark.

Most "Christians" celebrate Christmas without religion, I don't see why it would be a challenge for an atheist ;)


And, just to clarify, I am aware that there are situations where atheists have ridiculous lawsuits and the like. But those are rarities and a couple fanatics do not represent an entire group (just like that other religion you so subtly mention, JR).


Why wouldn't atheists, especially those who are "recovering" Christians, want to celebrate Christmas in a completely secular way? Actually, I'm sure that most do... except for the delusionally militant among us. But, all groups have people like that.

Christmas is fun. Santa Claus, eggnog, goodwill toward your fellow human beings and presents. What could be better?

I'll continue to celebrate it in the way I choose, irrespective of the derivation of its name. Hell, Easter is named after a Pagan goddess, does that mean Christians can't celebrate Christ's resurrection?

ianimal ianimal
Nov '14

Old Gent: In your first example, rather than being anti-Christian, the ACLU was asking the court to uphold the constitutionally mandated separation of church and state. Are you against the separation of church and state as provided in the U.S. Constitution?

Your second link implies that the ACLU is somehow involved in a "war against Christmas". The facts point to something quite different. If you refer to a local source for the details (perhaps the cliffviewpilot.org website) it looks like a Woodcliff Lake, NJ, Councilman (a Christian) said he was prepared to go to court to fight using “Community” or “Holiday” to refer to the borough tree for a pair of December events. It was also reported that he contacted the New Jersey chapter of the ACLU. It appears the issue was whether to call it a Christmas tree or something more PC. Do you think the ACLU shouldn't support the Councilman's position that it should be called a Christmas tree rather than a Community tree?


ianimal, agreed, the easter egg tradition goes back as far as ancient sumer, (about 8,000 bc) that we know of, and who knows how long before that,

and it just makes sense that after winter, spring comes and what represents renewal and rebirth better than an egg that is about to hatch?

and yes, the christians co-opted the 2 week winter solstice celebration and declared it the day to recognize the birth of the christ-child, god's one and only son which he gave to us for our own salvation, they used the winter soltise celebration to to help market their message to the north Europeans, i think it was an ok move to get the message out, why not?

i mean come on, with the short days and all of those around us who suffer depression due to SADs, what could be better than lighting lots of little lights to brighten us up on the darkest day of the year (December 21st), and giving presents, and eating lots of food and drinking libations and dancing around.

nothing wrong with any of that, it's a good thing,

now i don't if this means anything, and i am not suggesting that it does, but am wondering, i just realized this last week, never thought of it before, but somehow it just popped into my head: Santa; if we take the letter 'N' and move it to the end of the word,, you get satan, now i don't think that there is any tie in, but it caught my eye, what do you guys think?

BrotherDog BrotherDog
Nov '14

Dana Carvey's "Church Lady" covered that years ago (-;

ianimal ianimal
Nov '14

"they used the winter soltise celebration to to help market their message to the north Europeans, i think it was an ok move to get the message out, why not?"

Of course you do because it wasn't your culture or celebration that was replaced. That's the problem we have with society today. It's no big deal if it doesn't affect you. As soon as something is perceived to be an impact to you, it becomes a major issue.

Two gay guys wanting to get married is such an affront to my own marriage...quick, pass a law to ban them from getting married.
Oh no, we put "Holiday" on a sign during Christmas, quick, get Christ back into Christmas!

emaxxman emaxxman
Nov '14

RAD wrote: "Are you against the separation of church and state as provided in the U.S. Constitution?"

the phrase "separation of church and state" does not appear in the US constitution, that's another often mis-quoted and mis-repeated very popular myth, it's an old wives tale,

what the constitution protects is our individual right to practice our religion; we have constitutionally protected freedom of religion;

BrotherDog BrotherDog
Nov '14

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

In other words, government shall make no law promoting or prohibiting any religion, ergo a separation of church and state.

emaxxman emaxxman
Nov '14

yep, i know, thanks for confirming what i posted, that's what it says alright, but your ergo is a conclusion that you draw, and you have given proof that the words "separation of church and state" are not in the constitution as many currently believe, thank you.

"prohibiting the free exercise thereof;" so banning displays in the town square conflicts with the first amendment, stopping students from praying in school or before ball games or mentioning their beliefs at graduation ceremonies also is "prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"

banning bible clubs for after school activities while at he same time allowing the wiccan club to have space at the highschool is also "prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

editing Christmas carols for the Christmas shows does the same thing; "prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

BrotherDog BrotherDog
Nov '14

The first amendment also doesn't say that you can't yell "fire" in a theater. For someone to tell you otherwise (or charge you with a crime for doing it) is "abridging the freedom of speech".

ianimal ianimal
Nov '14

"The first amendment also doesn't say that you can't yell "fire" in a theater."
Or in a church during Christmas service ... Or in the mall during Black Friday madness...


"prohibiting the free exercise thereof;" so banning displays in the town square conflicts with the first amendment, "
town square belongs to the government...it should not have a sign promoting or denigrating any religion. You want a big inflatable Jesus on your lawn, go ahead.

stopping students from praying in school or before ball games or mentioning their beliefs at graduation ceremonies also is "prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"

I agree. While there may be some practical issues to resolve, a student should have that freedom to do so.

banning bible clubs for after school activities while at he same time allowing the wiccan club to have space at the highschool is also "prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

Agreed as well. Both should be banned. Religion should be kept out of public schools. If a Catholic school wants to allow a Bible club but prohibit a wiccan club, it should be allowed. It's a private organization.

editing Christmas carols for the Christmas shows does the same thing; "prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

Well, that depends on who's editing it and who ordered it. Private TV station can do whatever it wants. As long as the government isn't ordering them to censor it, all is Kosher. No one is preventing you from singing First Noel or Silent Night with all the original words, are they?

emaxxman emaxxman
Nov '14

Do you think the ACLU shouldn't support the Councilman's position that it should be called a Christmas tree rather than a Community tree?
I don't care what they call it . It's wrong to defend it under the establishment clause. In both examples

Old Gent Old Gent
Nov '14

emaxx - you're wrong about me above "it wasn't your culture ", actually it was and is my culture, i am a stalwart descendent of the vikings and native americans here in north america, both are my cultural heritage and it shows, no one took that away from us, not the Christians nor you, we still have our cultural influences in this house, . . . . . these traditions are as they were handed down to me from my elders, you need to be a little more careful in your pre-judged assumptions, you missed the mark with me here. some might call it 'reverse prejudice', some might not . . . . . . our traditions were not erased by the early church using the winter solstice time to celebrate the Birth of Christ. it adds to them, as it celebrates both, that's why food and fun are a big part of it. and that Christ is still a part of Christmas as well,

BrotherDog BrotherDog
Nov '14

While we all choose to believe in what we want and celebrate this holiday for whatever purpose we hold dear to our heart, let's focus on the point of this thread. This whole Christmas in early November thing is crazy and it's all that fat, bearded guy's fault up in the North Pole. If freakin' Santa didn't decide to go around the entire world in a night with some flying reindeer, we wouldn't have this problem!


"the phrase "separation of church and state" does not appear in the US constitution"

Never said it did. I said it was "provided by the Constitution" and "mandated by the Constitution", i.e. by the wording that IS in the Constitution. The First Amendment guarantees the principle of the separation of church and state - by implication, because separating church and state is what allows religious liberty to exist.


if santa can do it in one night, how come we can't?

btw, i'm looking forward to watching NLs "Christmas Vacation", that bb gun kid in "A Christmas Story" and the 1930's Scrooge, (that's the best one imo) and of course "It's a Wonderful Life". and Charlie Brown's Christmas, that's a keeper as well..

BrotherDog BrotherDog
Nov '14

Brother Dog, ditto your list plus, White Christmas, Elf, and 25 kids shows...love them all!

Spring Fever Spring Fever
Nov '14

Re: Christmas Creep is driving me mad...

It's NEVER too early for Christmas...

ianimal ianimal
Nov '14

the best scrooge movie is the 1951 version with alastair sim..a christmas carol --1951--united artists.b/w..

tunnel rat tunnel rat
Nov '14

Re: Christmas Creep is driving me mad...

Only 33 more days till Christmas...

ianimal ianimal
Nov '14

OMG weeanimal is so darn cute!! How is Mama feeling? When is the new baby due again?

Christine Christine
Nov '14

that weeanimal is just adorable -

5catmom 5catmom
Nov '14

He's adorable Ian!

Calico696 Calico696
Nov '14

That little weeanimal is just adorable...Will he be getting a brother or a sister soon? This is so exciting for your family, ianimal and we wish you all the best..

joyful joyful
Nov '14

Thanks, everybody. My mom picked up the Santa and Elf outfits for him yesterday. This way the Christmas cards will be ready to go in the mail the day after Thanksgiving. Don't worry, Calico... I know how much you hate kids on Xmas cards, so I'll leave you off the list (-;

Christine, sheweeanimal will be arriving on or before December 26th. That's the day the csection is scheduled, but there's a chance she might not want to wait 364 days for her 1st Christmas and come early, lol.

ianimal ianimal
Nov '14

Very nice ianimal but shouldn't that be a turkey costume? ;-)

emaxxman emaxxman
Nov '14

http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/breaking-news/index.ssf/2014/11/reading_replacing_ugly_christm.html#incart_river

Old Gent Old Gent
Nov '14

OK, does lighted pretzel mean something different than what I'm thinking?

emaxxman emaxxman
Nov '14

From a different article...

"The current tree is topped with a lighted pretzel, a nod to the area's many bakeries."

Mark Mc. Mark Mc.
Nov '14

This is the tree.


http://fox8.com/2014/11/22/residents-demand-towns-ugly-pathetic-christmas-tree-be-removed/


ianimal: Thank you for posting the pictures of weeanimal; he is just Precious! Congrats on the future addition to your family of a sheweeanimal. If your little girl comes early; perhaps she will be born on my birthday; Christmas Eve.

Mrs. Pipes Mrs. Pipes
Nov '14

Another Christmas baby! I have a friend who was born Dec. 26th. She hated it because everyone slept thru her bday. Mine is a week before and I hate that because its just too busy to celebrate. Lets hope she will not come on Christmas day you will be in deep trouble for the rest of your life!

I have said it before and I will say it again. I will take my daughter over boys anytime. My husband says the opposite. LOL Praying for a healthy delivery and healthy little girl!

Christine Christine
Nov '14

Weeanimal is just too cute in that outfit!

JrzyGirl88 JrzyGirl88
Nov '14

Just got back from a walk. Not only did I see houses with their Christmas lights on, but also fully decorated trees shining through the windows. I think I would be tired of having it up by the time the actual holiday came:)


Re: Christmas Creep is driving me mad...

this seems appropo

5catmom 5catmom
Nov '14

I say live and let live. There are far more worse things to complain about, such as hunger, poverty, and true misery. If individuals are decorating their homes for the holiday, I say, enjoy their lights, decorations and beauty that is being shared and expressed. On the other hand, if this is not possible, find something worth while to complain about, and do something to change it for the better. I am glad the holidays are approaching and enjoy the way Main Street glistens with the lighted wreaths as well as the homes that have already been decorated.

Angel 7
Nov '14

That's cute 5catmom :)

Angel7 maybe I walked past your house? lol

Really, don't take things so seriously....


Oh Ianimal..the weeanimal is precious. I love the picture with Santa, can't believe how big he is. Now with the new one almost here, you will be busy, busy, busy. Looks like you're loving your new title, Daddy :)

Bessie Bessie
Nov '14

Christmas begins on Christmas day when you turn on the lights and runs through Twelfth Night (12 days of Christmas)
Businesses and towns I guess need to erect decorations earlier but I don't think they should before the beginning of Dec or St Nicolas day and after Sinterklaas and Zwarte Piet arrive.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zwarte_Piet#mediaviewer/File:Sintenpiet.jpg

Melvin Belli Melvin Belli
Nov '14

turn up all your little lights, let them all shine bright

resist the darkest days of the year, find a way to be happy, light the lights, send the cards out snail mail, take the time to write them out long hand and put stamps on them and everything, it will help you feel better,

BrotherDog BrotherDog
Nov '14

Back to the Top | View all Forum Topics
This topic has not been commented on in 3 years.
Commenting is no longer available.