Does anyone know what's happening with Charlie Brown's?
I see the For Sale sign is gone and there appears to be a lot of activity there. Does anyone have the skinny?
Lady Jayne 
Bug2
CMON 
suzique Yes, I heard that it is going to be a family restaurant(with an Irish theme). It is NOT going to reopen as a Charlie Brown's..... I will be glad to see the building up and running again....:0)
ladyskidog As long as they have Sunday NFL specials, I'm in...and please market yourself to all of the college kids as well. Charlie Brown's had a golden opportunity to be a late night/weekend hangout for college students and they squandered it.
emaxxman 
eapos 
trekster3 The place was previously sold to someone else, so Charlie Brown (or actually the indivual LLC setup for Hackettstown with the other investors) would have to purchase it back and have the liquor license transferred back again. Which definitely hasn't happened yet so if it's near to coming back it can't be Charlie Brown again.
Last I had heard at Council when the liquor license was transferred after the auction sale, the plan was to do a few repairs to help out the value. And then try to sell it first. If that didn't happen he was going to run the place himself as a family type restaurant again. As far as I know, there wasn't any interest so. That's the last I heard.
GC 
CR37 
tangerine 
Calico696 If you are looking for Irish Pub, Thatcher McGhee's opened in Denville today.
http://www.denvilletoday.com/forum/371483
Chris Terrific to hear. I also prefer original and not chain, but given the economy, better a chain than empty.
With Mitsubishi opening at the old dealership near the railroad tracks on Main and the new body shop in another previously empty building near the middle school, and now this, it's really encouraging that things are turning around.
One of those chains means a standard set of blue prints. The current building is all chopped up and wouldn't support that. You'd have to tear the place down to the ground and start over. Anyone who would want to open one of those would be far better off buying the liquor license and then going over to Mountain Ave. It might be easy to gut the insides of Rite Aid maybe, but not the old Charlie Brown's. So I wouldn't worry Calico. ;-)
You can't prejudge a place just because it's a chain. There are just as many quality chains out there as there are quality mom and pop shops.
What dishes would an Irish Pub serve? Other than corned beef and cabbage, I'm pretty unfamiliar with Irish food.
Christine You might be right emaxx. What chains do you find good? I, like Christine, haven't found one I like yet. But am willing to experiment.
Regarding Irish cuisine, the Irish don't care about food just beer. LOL. A good Irish pub will have Guinness, Harp and Beamish on tap. Yum.
Anyway, what we consider an Irish pub here in the US is really an Americanized version of reality. My favorite "authentic" Irish place is The Plough and the Stars in Philly. Totally cool place. Live Irish music etc.
http://ploughstars.com/
Darn, looking at the beer list they seem to have taken the Beamish off the rail. Bastids!
Calico - I think the Irish now that they've gotten younger over the past couple of decades are going more the gastropub route. May have been true before about the food years ago, but I think that's changing. And a real pub has only one company's brands on tap. Guiness makes Harp, no problem. But Beamish too? Next you'll tell me over here you can go somewhere that has both Guiness and Murphy's. Anywhere else that would be a fight to the death. ;-)
In any case typical fare is stew, fish and chips, shepherd's pie, bangers and mash, curry pie, many similar things to what you would get in England or Scotland.
Chris - Old time Denville people might think it's sacrilege but I'm glad Fireside is gone. I hated it no matter how many people I knew liked it. The Record picture looks great.
There are some good chains out there. Mortons Steak House and Smith and Wolinsky's come to mind. They are both very good but would not survive here.
If it is going to be an Irish Pub bring the Tilted Kilt here.
www.tiltedkilt.com
McCormick and Schmick and Bonefish Grill are pretty good for fresh seafood.
Ruby Foo's and PF Changs for Asian-inspired (albeit not authentic) food.
Houston's Steakhouse
All are a class above the Applebee's/RT/Chili's etc.
I recently ate at Moe's Southwest Grill and the food there was cooked fresh and just as good as any "privately owned" Tex Mex place.
Back to the pub ... I'm good with the Guinness (favorite beer) but there has to be something more than bar food. That place is too big for just bar food.
Bone Fish Grill I was not impressed. Others I am not familiar with. Where is there a Moe's? Have not seen one.
Moe's is in Parsippany. It's in the vein of Qdoba and Chipotle. It's not a sit down and get waited on.
Bonefish is an outstanding restaurant and the seafood is always fresh and cooked to perfection.
Tweety We just discovered PF Changs and wish there was one around here. Love the lettuce wraps! There are several chains that I think are pretty good and there are several privately owned restaurants that are pretty bad. Personally, I wouldn't classify all chains together, nor would I always think I was going to get better food at a privately owned restaurant. I'm just glad those chains are providing jobs to people that live in the area that they are in.
Bessie The last time I went to bonefish we waited over an hour for our dinner to come out. When I finally flagged down a waitress as we could not find ours she came back and said our order was lost and took our order again. Then when I got mine it was way undercooked and had to send it back. At this point they should have apologized or something. NOTHING! We left there very disappointed. Our friends who were with us said that this has never happened to them before as they went their often. I just was not impressed. To me it was typical chain food.
i had always dreamed of opening a restaurant if I ever won the mega millions. I wanted to serve food that was european. Stuff you only had when you went to your grandparents house. Faggets (welsh, liver meatballs with cheese and onions), Pagach (easturan europe), Halushki (polish)......
Oh couse other things to keep a steady stream of people in.
CJ. There is a Bonefish Grill near my dad. Maybe we will take him there for his birthday next month and check it out.
CG: That type of restaurant sounds interesting..at least it offers more of a choice for trying other European ethnic food other than just one type. In past years Hackettstown has offered many ethnic type restaurants including one a few years ago that specialized in Yugoslavian food.
joyful Moe's was awful. Chipotle still holds the top honor for "fast" food Mexican, then Qdoba, then Moe's.
Jules I've never eaten at Chipotle but I have been to Qdoba. They're all about the same to me.
For Bonefish, they have a fresh fish menu where you choose how you want it prepared and which sauce you get. The one in Secaucus is packed tight. We go to the one in Pinebrook.
Regarding customer service at Bonefish, I once had my trout overcooked. The manager came out, apologized and then personally brought my new trout out. Pinebrook's management does a good job of making sure your needs are addressed. Mistakes happen, especially in a really busy restaurant, but I agree, how the place handles it makes a big difference.
Oh no emaxx! You sent the food back? Yikes, I would never ever do that. You know what they do when you do that right?
Both Bonefish and P.F. Changs, in our humble opinions, are very good.
....Mrs. Pipes and Husband
MrsPipes For those talking about the fast casual mexican restaurants - please check out La Salsa at the Rockaway Mall (In a strip by verizon, carters, osh kosh etc)
They have the fresh salsas made every day, fresh home made chips and tremendous food.
IMO better than Chipotle, Moe's & Qdoba
GC pretty much got all the typical Irish food. A lot of them will incorporate decent chicken dishes and steak dishes.
"Back to the pub ... I'm good with the Guinness (favorite beer) but there has to be something more than bar food." -- emaxx
Why would you expect anything else other than 'bar' food at an Irish bar????? ;-)
The Irish, unlike the Italians and other cultures, are not exactly known for their food. They're more known for their beer and being able to display an atmosphere and ambiance that makes you want to go back again and again.
Computer Sharp I love that extra flavoring! Mmm...mmm. Actually, I didn't send it back, the waitress noticed it before I said anything and she voluntarily took it back. I hadn't even cut into it.
CS - if it was only a bar, then just bar food would be fine. The place is awfully large to just be bar food. Now, of course, this all depends on what your definition of bar food is.
To me, bar food is quick small sandwiches, burgers, wings, cheese sticks, nachos, stuff like that. I'd like to see more "entree" dishes. I think if you want to survive (and support the rent on a building that big), you need to broaden your menus.
Being a Irishmen, Myself...or Meself! ...Computer Sharp...you said all there is to say about what is needed in a Irish Pub...Good Irish Food and Fun and maybe a Irish Band...You might be surprised!
Don't think it will be opening anytime in the near future. A tremendous amount of damage was done last weekend when a sprinkler pipe broke on an upper floor and dumped about 100,000 gallons of water all through the building. Plaster has fallen and there is a ton of damage in there. Sorry to be a downer.
snapper 
Burst Pipe might be a good thing - $$$ for renovation!
How about whatever opens there we all go out and support it as opposed to getting on HL and bashing it out of business.
Let's not forget Charlie Brown's was a regular hangout for many of the posters here, and held multiple Happy Hours for HL. A lot of the people on the forum here want nothing more than to get a nice restaurant back in there.
Sorry to hear about the water damage.......we held many an event there when it was the old Clarendon! Another part of history in town....
OnlyChild 
Metsman I grew up going to the Clarendon with my parents when Willie and Ernie Putz owned it. I remember many holiday parties with my Dad when he belonged to the Rotary Club. Many years later my husband and I had our first date at Charlie Brown's, 7 months later he proposed there, and 1 1/2 years later we got married there. I was so sad when they closed.
lsricc I too loved Charlie Brown's. I ate dinner there often and on the few occasions when something wasn't quite right, the management made good on it. We also hosted two events there and were very pleased both times with the food and the service.
Tanya Many of these restaurants that have been mentioned were very popular in MD when I lived there almost 5 years ago. Chipolte! I love it! PK Changs....yummy for the lettuce wraps and everything else, Bonefish was a great place for an upscale HH and also for a nice dinner.
Another Siamsa in Hackettstown would be nice - Brandon the owner has one in Harrisburg, Pa and one in Stroudsbrug and they do very well. Hackettstown and specificall CB's might be a great place for it.
Firefly Firefly - What is with that name Siamsa? I know where the place is in S'burg. Is that really a Irish name? Info if you have it. Thanks
Well, Firefly, our wish might be coming true. Heard from a pretty reliable source today that Charlie Browns is sold and a Irish restaurant will be going in there. Let's hope that this is so and if for no other reason than it is very depressing riding by there now and seeing the Old Clarendon just sitting there unused.
Suggest you go back and look at snappers post above, 100,000 gallons of water thru a building with plaster walls does not set up a "Coming Soon" situation. Demolition more likely than rebuilding
Wow, sounds like a flood. Can't imagine that the let the insurance lapse even in a closed building.
mistergoogle eapos: I said the same thing to the person that told me it was sold and they said that it has been repaired and sold...that is all I know. But, whatever the situation, let's pay attention to Oppotomist's post and if it is sold...Please try supporting the new establishment and not the bashing we have been hearing lately.
joyful - I don't understand why people think if somebody has a negative experience at a local place they shouldn't be within their right to post about it. Why is it automatically called bashing?
If I go to a local restaurant and think it's crap, I will tell the restaurant, I will review here and won't go back. If I go to a local restaurant and love it, I will tell the restaurant, review it here and continue to go back.
If and when a new place opens at the old Clarendon, I will be anxious to try it. But if it's crap, I will say so.
Not doubting that the place was renovated and sold, just not fixed since the sprinkler flood a week ago. I was in commercial renovation business for over 25 years and we were good, but no one can repair a 100,000 gallon leak damage in a week. If it was insured, the paperwork probably isn't done yet. I agree Calico, crap is crap.
I know the new owner and he presently owns another restaurant in Bergen County that is a national chain. I can attest to the fact that his current restaurant is head and shoulders above others from the same chain. He is customer oriented and runs a great place.Each detail to this renovation is being well thought out. He is making a huge investment in the community there and has some great plans for his Irish pub. Best of luck !!!
Lifeisgood Jonelle.. I became friendly with the man that opened the place. His name is Brandon. The bar itself was constructed in Ireland and put on a ship and brought here. He had a muralist from Ireland to do the murals and decorative painting and when he first opened almost the entire staff was from Ireland. Some are still there. When you sat at the bar the bartender would shake your hand and introduce himself in his most charming ( if I do say so myself) accent. Love that place.
I personally always give everything a fair shot. Horatio and I enjoy trying new places. We actually get very excited when we hear of something "coming soon" and can't wait for it to open.
We have been extremely pleased with Riley and Jake's (old Sunset Inn) and have been going there weekly for football. Actually have to do an updated review on that thread.
Hoping to try Kennedy's in Belvidere this weekend.
H'tonian If it's an Irish Pub, it'll help out Grand Ave area with even more car accidents. Hehe.
Speaking of restaurants, anyone hear about the gas leak today at Pandan Room (or right by it)? Yikes. Pad Thai with CO sauce and tamarind juice. Better not ruin my peanut butter eggroll. Seriously my fav dessert I've had anywhere.
Ooodles Nope, no Golden Corral. It's going to be Irish all right - but another rumor is coming to fruition too - Hackettstown is going to be the site of the very first McHooters.
Seriously, I do hope a nice Irish pub opens there. We really miss having another adult beverage establishment in town. We like Marley's okay but it gets old after a while.
Aquarius Irish pub I am all for that mmm a pint of beer please or some Irish Mead mmmm i will be there for that a nice lamb stew fresh baked bread
Caged Animal I am glad to hear that something is coming to the old CB. I hope they come up with a better traffic plan for the area. I really don't know what they could do but it was very difficult/dangerous to get through that area from 4:30-6ish when they were open.
summerhelp I saw an older man with glasses in a grey suit looking over the blue prints out in the parking lot two days ago when I was on my way to the gym.
I saw 'blue print guy' there Tuesday Night as well. I circled back abt 15 mins later and he was gone.
As for bashing, it's OK to relate an experience here and there, but there are those contributors out there who live to come on here and bash things, then come back 6 mos later and complain about the vacant buildings and the state of the town. Go back and review any restauraunt thread on this site and you'll see the pattern.
Remember, out of town customers that might come in to support the restaurant might also see these negative HL reviews on Google and decide not to come. Give the place some time to get on it's feet first.
Nobody here probably remembers, but the Towne Crier wasn't very good in the beginning until Laddy got the place settled and righted the ship.
ask the ghost that live in the attic what they might allow to flourish in that space otherwise the biz will flop.
richard fitzgerald 
Kate S. Over a week ago I posted the rumor that a Irish Pub was coming to the Old Charlie Browns on Grand Avenue soon and this was met by other posters as "No way"... with all the water damage done in there. Well, rumor is no longer rumor..Workers are in there as of the moment restoring the restaurant to make it ready by July for a Irish Pub. The other good news is that the traffic pattern is also going to be addressed getting in and out of the establishment. This info was also on Station WRNJ this morning.
I took the above discussion to be more about the "coming soon" than the Irish pub. And additionally that it might have to be demolished given the water damage. From reports at Council and then more detailed plans discussed at the zoning meeting, the amount of water was correct. But not the amount of damage. One area was definitely extensively damaged but in an area that they were already removing all the fixtures. The water all collected in the basement and was just pumped out. Luckily it was all localized and the insurance is believed to cover the cost of repairs completely.
Sure it's still going to take time to fix, but not nearly as much as the above discussion would have you believe.
Joyful - I didn't see any posts that said "No way" an Irish pub was coming. Epos said there was "no way" one was opening within a week due to all the damage that was done in the flood. And he/she is right according to you because the new place isn't going to be open until July. Why are you so negative about this forum? You refer to anyone giving a negative opinion as "bashing" yet YOU are critical of anyone who doesn't post sunshine and unicorns. If you don't like to hear people's opinions good or bad then don't read the forum. IMHO
Not St. Patrick's Day in March, Calico...but should be open and ready in time for the annual St. Patricks Day parade in Hackettstown. They are saying July or early August.
No, the St. Patricks Day parade is usually held end of summer..Trying to remember but I know we stood out there wearing our winter jackets. The Memorial Day parade is end of May and usually we have a Firemans Parade after that...pretty sure it is towards Fall.
joyful - It is in March. Here is last year's thread.
http://www.hackettstownlife.com/forum/268304
The St. Patricks day parade for the past few years has always been held in March. I am 100% certain of that.
HopefulVacationer St. Paddy's day is held in March this year. Always has been a few days later now it will be a few days earlier. FUN!
Copy and pasted form the BID website
St. Patricks Day Parade
When Sun Mar 11 2012 3:30pm – 5pm Eastern Time
Where Hackettstown, NJ (map)
..All I really remember was it was so cold that day of the last St. Patricks Day parade. No, guess it will not be ready by then but sure am looking forward to the Pub's opening whenever it may be!! Thanks, Christine for the reminder!!
You can go to the Town hall and see the plans - Looks interesting. They will remove the Barn in the back and locate a new Main entrance on the Washington St side, with the front porch used for outside dining.
Joyful - St Paddy's Day parade at the end of summer / Fall? That must have been some Green beer you had!
Slàinte!
Wow, St Paddies Day parade is not in the late summer!!!!! Guess thats why we all got arrested marching down the middle of Main street last August LOL!
John C The Optomist: Maybe you are right...I do remember visiting some of the shops that day for a "little nip" and refreshments before the parade. I most definitely remember it was so cold and windy that day that my umbrella kept turning inside out while standing on Main St. watching the parade.
Wow...BLD2...guess I deserved that tongue lashing..Sorry if I offended anyone with my post. If I did..it was certainly not intended..
cbel No offense BLD2 but I have never seen joyful being negative about anything on here unless there was a good reason. I think you read way too much into her post.
Anyway, I am super excited for a new place!!!
youngnfresh IMHO - Complaining about someone complaining is still complaining. But I accept her apology and now we can move on.
I can't get to the Town during business hours but am really interested to know how the main entrance will work on the Washington St side. Wouldn't that make the traffic worse at that particular intersection? Regardless of traffic, an Irish Pub will be a great addition to the Town !
darluggh Joyful, your memory is correct in the fact that it was cold and windy at last years parade. The kids and I were wrapped in blankets and they didn't even get up for the candy!
Snow Just a general note, the Fourth of July will be held on the Fourth of July this year, rain or shine.
OK..you guys.. Wait until you get my age and then tell me that you don't forget things!! A lot!!!
@Joyful..I think when one has such a busy social calender as you, events start to get mixed up. I sure hope that when I retire I can remain as happy, fun to be around and active as you. Love you my friend!
Thank you so much, Bessie, for that ...I really needed that post from you today..I love you too!
Only kidding Joyful. How could we not like someone with the name "Joyful!"
See you at the parade! I'll be the one in the wool suit!
The plans call for an Irish Pub and it is privately owned and not a franchise. The owner is progressing through the system with permits and approvals,he is doing his due diligence and putting an extreme amount of thought into this project(in addition to his financial investment) so that not only is it authentic,great quality and a destination,he is also taking into account how to positively impact the community and business zone.
H-town Mama 
Rebecka http://www.nj.com/warrenreporter/index.ssf/2012/02/irish_pub_restaurant_coming_to.html
sorry if someone posted this already...
Lori...since '73 
I'm sure they will be fine. Maybe the Ghost(s) is/are Irish and look forward to shots of Jameson!
From the link Lori posted above:
"Mark Falow, the owner of the new Craic-themed restaurant, said he thinks the restaurant will be a perfect fit for the Hackettstown area. He described his vision for the restaurant as a “happy place where people can get away from their problems."
In alcoholic speak that means it's going to be a drinking oasis. Giddy up!!! :)
John C - You can keep your Jameson, I'm going this route ------->
Denis Would love a pub with Christy Moore,The Dubliners etc blasting out.. rashers and sausage for breakfast before a few pints,premier league football,live Irish trad sessions on a Sunday, Irish barstaff who know how to pull a pint of Guinness.. a fireplace!
Hope to make it my new home from home...
Bíodh dóchas ort go dtiocfaidh tú slán
Logow Logow: We can dream, can't we?? They have a place in Atlantic City called RiRas at the Tropicana that is pretty close to that. Each piece of wood in the place plus the bartenders and waitresses were imported from Ireland. Going there is usually my birthday treat every year.
Has anyone heard anything new about this? It looks like there is still a for sale sign there.
Joe M The for sale sign has been out there for a long time. The partial demolition/construction described in the plan that was approved is going to be several months.
Work is going forward fot the Irish Pub! They are selling things on Criags List from inside the kitchen etc.
looking forward to it.
Maybe we can have a major HL get together when they open. I'm not a happy hour person (prefer breakfasts and lunches), but I'd love to be a part of a welcoming committee.
If something like an Irish Pub opens within 25 miles of this place, I can be sure there will be a huge welcoming committee from the forum there. Official or unofficial. Same difference, knowing this crew. ;-)
SIAMSA in stroudsburg in a very nice place. Went there for St Patrick's day. That would be great. Another good place is Blackthorn in Parsippany. Also would be a nice addition to town.
NYR guy They tore down the carriage house? Wasn't it historic? They're allowed to just tear it down?
Our 27th NJ (Irish Brigade) members are looking forward to a real Celtic drinking establishment!
Tincup - The whole plan was reviewed extensively and they have all the appropriate permits. I don't recall hearing the term "carriage house" before, but the plan calls for removing an old addition added much later. It's the exactly opposite of being historic, it's going back more towards the way it was originally.
JeffersonRepub I hope that HL does plan a get together here when it opens. Looking forward to going and not wanting to be alone. Just a thought, smile.
reedfamilyrocks reedfamilyrocks: You can do it. When it opens, choose a date, post an invitation and it will happen.
Remember "Field of Dreams"? If you build it, he will come.
If you post it, HLers will come.
Jefferson Republic:
The Irish Brigade dates back to the Civil War. Irish Imigrants were being enlisted right off the boats by agents from the State of New York, New Jersey, and other states. Men were assigned to regiments, regiments were assigned to brigades etc. Since most of the men in the 1st Division, 1st and 2nd Brigades of the Army of the Potomac of the Union Army were Irish, they became known as the Irish Brigade. Their casualty rate at the battles of Sharpsburg MD and Fredericksburg VA was close to 80%. The brigade was shown in the movie "Gods and Generals".
The Confederate Army also had their own Irish Brigade.
Any new news on this? I went to the post office this week and did not look like anything progressing across the street.
jdem 
Come on!!! Bring on the Irish Pub. I love my Catnip with a side of Guinness and Jamison!
was there Irish pub not opening until the fall - http://www.nj.com/warrenreporter/index.ssf/2012/05/hackettstown_bid_director_iris.html
John C, My Great Grandfather came over from Ireland to fight for the Irish Brigade. He was captured and the Battle of Chancellorsville. Spent the rest of the war in a Confederate prison where contracted malaria. I can only imagine how brutal the conditions were. Went back to Ireland live out the rest of his life.
Very cool Dennis. I guess the horror of being a prisoner of war drove him right back across the pond.
What was left of the Irish Brigade after the battle of Fredericksburg was placed with the 11th Corp, which put them on the extreem flank that was targeted by Stonewall Jackson's Division at Chancellorsville. Many a good Irish (and also German) lad lost their freedom (or worse....their life) during the early stages of "Hookers Folly"
Very striking photo by the way!
Does anyone know if this is still on track for the fall? It is right around the corner and I dont see anything happening with it yet...
as far as I've heard yes, the fall, but I suspect closer to early winter - another paperwork snafu....
I wonder why they've never changed the sign? Still looks like it's for sale.
While I'm anxiously awaiting this one, it'll be a TRAFFIC NIGHTMARE. Couldn't be in a worse location, traffic-wise. I always HATED what the CB's parking did to the MAIN intersection in town!
They'd need to close the post office side entrance to "reconfigure" it so it didn't screw up rush hour traffic on 46/517. Enter from ?, exit onto Grand Ave.
CB's parking lot was fine. The people not knowing how to use it / drive was the issue!
The left turn into the parking lot always created a mess for those of us trying to get home during rush hour. There should be no left turn into that thing.
The parking lot change was already approved by the town in the original plans. I haven't seen the plans to know if Grand St will be closed off completely. But I have heard for sure Washington Street is being opened up like it was originally. The prior parking lot was not fine at all. The biggest issue was it was one way and thinner to begin with and then opening up on the other side. So you have no where to go when you pull in, and can't go back even when you're on the other side.
I never had a problem getting in or out of there, even during rush hour. Of course, I knew about the super top secret entrance/exit off of Moore Street.
iPhone-imal LOL I am glad you are the one who spit the secret out ian........I probably would be feathered and tarred,,,
JimmyBeam It'll draw EVERYBODY. Marley's will always have a "locals" crowd, people who have been going there forever. But I'll bet alot of people who would have headed out to Applebee's or Ruby Tuesday's will now head for the new place. Unlike the other 2, maybe you'll actually be able to get a seat a dinner time, since the new place is HUGE inside.
The problem with the driveway was drivers approaching the light blocking the driveway. They need a big white "don't block the driveway" sign painted in the street and on a post - and the police should ticket anyone who does block it. This is a potentially big tax ratable for town - we need to encourage more businesses and help them make parking reasonable.
okay I've heard some buzz --- if all goes well, they'll be ready to start renovations by this time next week --- if I get any other details, I will certainly pass that along : )
Wendy @ HKT BID I give the new owners credit for pushing forward, it is amazing that it is this hard to reopen a place in an existing previously run establishment. It is no wonder so many places sit empty in NJ.
jdem - don't know where that came from, but the town was not the major hold-up....
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