How much NJ cops get paid.
Woohoo- tax dollars!!
All while the guys in the military- who actually bust their ass, completely give up years of their life’s, damage their bodies and minds- get peanuts.
Nah, I’m with Josh. Our military should be paid more than police and it shouldn’t even be close. Not to mention the union, benefits, and pensions that police get while veterans suffer with inadequate care and homelessness.
Not enough? You realize some of these guys can retire with an extremely generous pension at 45 years old right? Cops get compensated PLENTY. Our military boys, not so much…
Military members volunteer, you don't pay volunteers. And most of your police are ex-military- so they know they have to put the "volunteer" time in so they can profit later.
Maybe America wouldn't fight fake "weapons of mass destruction" type wars if Presidents had to actually draft people. You might have more money for Social Security and Medicare.
Dodgebaal, I think you misunderstand what a volunteer army means. All of our troops are paid - even reservists get paid for the time they are doing drills or if they get called into active duty for deployment. Yes, our military is volunteer in that they were not drafted into service. Using that logic, all of our police are volunteer members as well since no one forced them to join the academy. Should we not pay the police since we don't pay volunteers?
Skip all conversation about how much someone gets paid and if it’s to much or to little. As far as service members they should be compensated very nicely. Volunteer or not without them we don’t exist. The fact we don’t take care of our veterans is really despicable. I am surprised that is still exists and is still a conversation. As far as police officers yes they do sign up but that is for a job. That job description has changed tremendously for the ones brace enough to sign up before this nonsense going on. Good for them they retire at 45 with a great pension. Give them more since they are willing to die.
A window cleaner, on a high rise, makes $38k per year. They are also “willing to die” but have to take the risk 15 years longer before retiring. Way less benefits, also. Why are there so many more disabled, homeless military veterans than cops?
Google police salaries for Hackettstown. Much higher. Starting age 19. $52k No college degree required….that’s what I saw on an ad for help wanted by Htown PD, a few years ago. To have that kind of authority and control over another human’s life should require a four year degree. Psychology, criminology, law. I’m sure there are good cops without a degree but college would increase their critical thinking skills and justify their high salaries. NJ pays higher than most of the country, according to Indeed.com. The site has a lot of free information. No email or anything else required.
Why be a window cleaner than over a cop? It’s no comparison and I am not protecting the police. I haven’t googled the statistics of window cleaner deaths compared to law enforcement but I would assume it’s a lot higher for law enforcement. And yes couldn’t agree more on veterans it’s time to help and stop talking. NJ is fixing up the state house for a half billion which means way more give that to veterans so so sad
The police have also killed over 10k people since 2013. Not sure how many window cleaners have but I bet it's less. Maybe it's a hunting bonus they get.
Amen ! when I was in the military in the marine corps 2010 starting off as a PFC which is an Enlisted E-2 rank we were making like 700$ the first and fifth ! Obviously as you go up in rank you get paid more but it definitely was peanuts. Especially for signing your life away , which was voluntarily because why not fight for your country, but it was rough times.
Thanks for the original link! I had no idea my brother in law made that much!! LOL
Cops paid way too much. Way too much for the brutal killings and cowardly practices in the face of danger. Most ex-military with PTSD. I think they'll take anyone they can get and most want out before 50 with big fat pension.
Don’t most cops get to carry over their sick and/or vacation time, also? Parsippany paid out a whopping amount several years ago. If the job pays so well because it’s “extremely dangerous, stressful, etc…”, why don’t certain officers use their vacation days and such? I’m not dismissing the dangers they face. After all, they deal with the public (like bank tellers) and get called to dangerous situations. A state trooper was shot in Mansfield about 25? years ago. I believe Mansfield pays less than Hackettstown. Depending on the town, some cops retire several years early, using up all that paid time off and getting a full salary and benefits. By not being forced to use it, yearly, like most jobs, the town has to hire another officer plus pay the retired one. The “whole extremely dangerous but never take a vacation or sick day” business has always been a mystery to me. I’m not sure if Htown PD allows it or not. More civilians get killed, each year, by far, then cops do.
Lenny- that website data is from 2019 so the #'s shown there have certainly gone up in the last 3-4 years.
Fred- when I went in the Army as an E1 in 1996 the pay was $809.10 a month before tax. I have my first paycheck somewhere- it is $3xx for 2 weeks after tax.
If a career Army guy gets out today has served 20 years, made the rank of E7 Sergeant First Class- his pay for the year is just under 65k.
It’s not an easy job, and from a quick online search it sounds like less people want to get into being an officer as a career. Pay and/or benefits will only go up to increase the applicant pool.
Supply and demand.
It has been 50 years since I was in the Air Force. Things you have to factor in the "low" pay is free housing, free meals, free medical care, and reduced prices on everything from groceries. liquor, cigarettes and hard goods. My low pay was not spent on anything but fun because everything else was paid for. Service people also get reduced prices on car insurance and low-cost life insurance. Not a bad deal if you don't waste money on partying. Also after leaving the Air Force I finished another degree on the VA.
I think everyone posting here from behind their keyboard should enlist in the military or police academy. Spend time away from home, family and spend time with people who may try to kill you. If someone attacks you with a knife or gun, do not shoot them. And only ask for minimum wage. Oh and you have to work in person, no live streaming from safety of your computer or smartphone.
I give them credit for doing what they do. They run to danger and if they get compensation for that so be it. I have yet to see one just randomly shoot or chase someone. They react to what they are presented with.
So all the justice warriors and haters. Be sure to get your psych training and get out there and respond to suicidal person calls. Intervene during the family disputes with knives and guns. Join a fire dept or first aid squad. Go see the things you seem to be the one to handle since you have the comments and answers.
Perfectly worded * Justpassinthru* my 2 cents … we pay taxes for these services (police, military and the list goes on) I personally feel blessed that I live in a society that have these advanced services. I thank everyone who choices a civil service career path and the sacrifices they collectively suffer.
There’s literal people here that stated they served in the military , “everyone” is too many people , “reacting” to what you are presented with isn’t good policing, you don’t react off of emotion you react off of logic thorough reasoning. That’s what differentiates a unprofessional police officer versus a professional police officer. Hence, the reason why someone stated previously , they believe police officers should have some sort of a 4 year degree, and not some young individual fresh out of high school with no true life experiences or mental maturity.
I so agree with Justpassinthru and LibertyThinker. I have lived in LV for 46 years and hopefully will continue to until my days end. I have always felt safe in this area of NJ. I feel I can rest my head at night knowing that my police department and those of the surrounding towns are there if I/we need them. I want the laws enforced and that includes the driving laws too. I have read many complaints about cops pulling over cars, especially on rt 46 and I am thrilled because at least for that moment, that drug dealer or crazy driver is caught. As far as their salary and benefits, I have no issue with any of it. As far as the military, I am so thankful for all of them and believe we should be paying them more fairly. Stop supporting so many other countries and that could happen.
Take a look at those numbers again. For most of those officers they are getting almost half in "extra pay". Want to know what that is? It isn't sitting in the office doing paperwork. That's overtime because of the shortage of officers. Talk to the local cops and ask them what it's like. They have to pull double shifts way more often than in any other job I have ever heard of. I'm an army brat and my dad became an officer after getting out. He had been an MP and he said it was WAY harder to be a cop. On base there is a basic level of civility, there is hardly any on the calls as a cop. That's not to say he hadn't been shot at as a army officer, but he was shot at more as a cop.
I’m not saying police have it easy, but routinely, they do not even rank in the top 10 most dangerous jobs. Know who has a significantly more dangerous job than police (ranked by deaths per 100,000) - your local trash collector. With an average salary of $39k, there are 34.1 fatalities per 100,000. Police are listed as 14.6 deaths with a median salary of $65k. Know who else has a more dangerous job?
Agricultural workers at 17.4 deaths while making $26k
Truck drivers at 24.7 deaths making $40k
Iron workers at 25.1 deaths making $57k
Fishermen at 86 deaths making $31k
Loggers at 135.9 deaths making $41k
(From https://www.princegeorgecountyva.gov/news_detail_T6_R1402.php and I only included jobs that paid less than police. Police were ranked #14 in a tie with linemen.)
I’m not saying that police don’t have a tough job - they do and society keeps demanding more from them. But, to say (as a whole) police are underpaid given the risk they face is statistically inaccurate.
You gotta figure the skill required though... To pick up trash and or drive a garbage truck, vs having to learn aspects of the law, have a camera attached to you, have crazy confrontations with crazy people... I think it all factor's into pay.
Forced you think 6 weeks training is enough to potentially take another's life in the name of the law. The thing is cops don't get adequate training. The training they do get though makes them hyper aggressive. They are now taught it's you against the world. There is plenty of evidence and even documentaries about. If cops had some real training, schooling, whatever, then I'd agree with the salary. Police as a profession also have the highest domestic violence to occur, guess that's just a coincidence too.
Driving a garbage truck, a commercial vehicle, and picking up trash have “to learn aspects of the law, (different types, applying to hazards etc), have a camera attached to you( most street corners and homes do that) , have crazy confrontations with crazy people (the crazy drunk, with an AR-15, who wants to throw his sofa bed , free, into the garbage truck)... “. Not to mention sanitation workers have to clean up the worst and most dangerous neighborhoods, without the protection of a gun. They used to make good money…back in the day. Not so sure anymore.
Yesimpc..........I think you mean 6 months of training.
Richie even with 6 months of training would you want someone who has your life on the line to have that? Would you talk to a therapist with 6 months of training? A doctor? This training is focused on the more violent side of the job and keeping the population subdued, not safe.
It does seem there is a spending problem in the overtime. It's not that we should reject overtime, but it does lead to a potential overwork situation where cops are too tired to work their real jobs effectively. We have cases of cops doubling their salaries with OT; you know there's something wrong with that math.
This might be somewhat out-of-whack due to the pandemic, but there should be some time of cap on OT.
Alot of that extra pay is traffic control paid for by utility companies and businesses, not tax payers and off the clock for the officers that volunteer. The amount some towns charge is eye opening. Got charged $1200 a day in union county for sewer line work for one officer to be on the scene during work
The laws must’ve changed as most police academies used to be 6 week programs. I’m pretty sure that Hackettstown was that way. “Road Jobs”, AKA traffic control paid cops $50-75 per hour in addition to their regular salaries back in the nineties, in larger NJ towns. Directing traffic, in a busy city, is probably one of the most dangerous parts of the job. Sanitation workers have the same danger, depending on the area. The police salaries should correspond with the amount of danger involved combined with level of education. They should be obligated to use most of their vacation time, every year, to reduce the stress from such a dangerous job, right? I mean, everyone says cops are so brave and such heroes….yet a lot never take a day off…for twenty five years and then retire five years early with full pay and benefits. Five years is too long to pay for two cops (retired and hired) when they can save the taxpayers money and have them use their time off during each year. Wouldn’t it be better for their mental health? Family?
Funny thing is- if they are 'off the clock' when doing road work- and not paid by the system...I have 2 issues...
#1- if not on the official job- then your uniform shouldn't be worn.
Want to use your skills on the side and get paid? Sure- no problem. Plain clothes- or some sort of made up 'security' outfit. Anything else is an official representation and they know that- which is why they take advantage of it.
But to wear an official gov uniform- act in an official manner- and most likely write tickets as if you were a cop- then make up your mind- either your a cop or your not.
Because I've been at a bar with cops drinking several times- and no way in hell should they be able to 'do the job' when 'off the job'.
#2- if the cop is 'off duty & not on tax payer' when doing traffic power line B.S.- who pays for the gov vehicle / fuel / wear tear...as it sits there with it's lights on?
So if you look it up, police academy is 6 months. Most police departments do require a 4 year degree and or prior military service. But that aside, I've meet alot of people with "degrees " that are not too bright. So college is no benchmark. And as I understand it, the side work is paid by the utility companies. That includes money to city or town for wear and tear on vehicle ect. And again, talk smack about them. But they will show up when everyone else is running away. Temple cop is dead, but there is no danger to them. His family will argue his life and time are worth they pay. And for the occupations people say are more dangerous. That may be, but if you get killed by a machine or from human error. That's not the same scenario as being killed intentionally by another person. All life is sacred. The people who hate will hate no matter what is said. Hopefully none of the haters will need or call the over paid and handle it themselves.
Josh, the cops are technically "off-duty", but it's sanctioned by the municipality, as opposed to other "moonlighting" security gigs some cops do. Most towns also require the officers to pay a "rental fee" for the vehicle to absorb the gas/depreciation loss.
LOL, "not enough"... Such talk is usually by people milking the system as they have no accountability. At the end of the day there is a budget. States can't run on money printing like papa federal government.
The problem I see in overtime is at some point the worker will neither be efficient or effective because they are putting in too many hours.
"States can't run on money printing like papa federal government." Mostly right iJay, but they never could. They could take loans, and they still do.
First, the balanced budget is dependent on state laws, some are more restrictive that others. Second, the balanced budget generally applies to operating budgets, not capital budgets as in you still can break the bank as long as it's in capital projects -- roads, buildings, you know, the expensive stuff. Third, there's always the rabbit hole where dollars can be found unspent in accounts, or perhaps you "push" a month's pay out to the following year, etc. Thus, if I was in government, I would be looking for all the places I could hide "rainy day" dollars just in case of emergency.
Still some workarounds. Problem is what do you do with a Hurricane Sandy. Do you fire half your police to cover the unanticipated 100-year storm costs? That only gets worse at the Federal level.
Nothing to do with overtime, and I think balancing a budget a good thing, but believe our elected officials should just do the right thing that we elected them for and not be mandated to do the right thing like a machine. Why even have them if their main job is managing finances and we put most of that management responsibility under a mandate. Might as well get a monkey with an abacus at that point.
iJay …Hate to tell you, but you are wrong!! I don’t milk the system! I never have! I worked my whole life, my husband worked in the union for over 33 years!!!! My statement (NOT ENOUGH) is based on police officers having to go to work everyday and not knowing if they will return home to their families! That’s all ! If you don’t make enough money join a union!!!!
"...having to go to work everyday and not knowing if they will return home to their families!"
You could probably include everyone who has to commute on either I-78 or I-80 in that statement.
People complain about how much cops make all day long...but then something like this happens
The thin blue line certainly can get thick in the wallet.
Blairstown's pay always seemed high while they get to spray paint their parking lot with Punisher symbols.
Independence Police EX-Chief Keith Aiello with his abuse of power always seemed to get paid to much. Now look at him. Supposedly a NDA over his DUI and he gets to keep is firearms license.
Hackettstown police force is over 2 million a year in total payout? (actually seems reasonable just never thought it was high)
My personal favorite is the ones they never advertise and it doesn't happen so much anymore but when a police force is "understaffed" and they roll their sick days over and over. Only to "retire" but use out their sick days for a year or so then retire.
I watched a cop last year call his buddy for deer that was just hit by a car and he put a bullet in it. Buddy came and grabbed it, they went and dressed it while he was on duty.
The side businesses they run with impunity is always astounding as well. The early 2000's it seemed every cop had lawn mowing business.
I can't even get the neighborhood cops to wave at me driving down the street anymore, let alone get them to stop and have a chat with my kid so they know who to go to if they are in trouble. I have to tell her go to blacked out suv and hope its a cop.
#2- if the cop is 'off duty & not on tax payer' when doing traffic power line B.S.- who pays for the gov vehicle / fuel / wear tear...as it sits there with it's lights on?
The utility company or private contractor is paying the town for their services. I have bid jobs both public and private and we reach out to the local or state police department for pricing. The officer, and car and expenses are all figured into their price. It's not cheap and generally there is a minimum number of hours you are billed.
To all you "complaining" the Police are paid too much, why aren't you becoming Police Officers and "cashing in" on it? Yes, there are good and bad Officers, but I for one wouldn't want the job, therefore I don't complain about it. Just look at the areas where they called for doing away or defunding the Police and see where that got them, crime is up.
If you want change then get involved and help change the laws for the Military and the Police. Don't want to do that then don't complain.
As if we have any actual power to get laws changed.
...and I was in the military- medic & NREMT.
Why wouldn't I be a cop? Because I have a sense of honor.
There is no such thing as a cop that has never done something unfair under the excuse 'just doing my job'- ranging from simple undeserved tickets / harassment, up to truly horrible things.
It is 100% impossible to be a cop and *never* have to be immoral.
Some may be good *most* of the time- but still- they *have* to do shameful things some of the time.
Whether or not they *feel* ashamed is a different story.
Watch this channel for real world cop behavior- both GOOD and bad... eye opening.
This one is fun. They obviously are being asshats bugging the cop- BUT he has laws he needs to follow and he clearly is out of control-
Audittheaudit is fun to watch sometimes. codebluecam. lhrn. police pursuits. All on youtube, all show what cops have to deal with.
younggen…I’ve watched that show. When cops arrested another cop, for DUI, the arresting officer was literally begging and pleading for the drunk, belligerent cop to cooperate. He would’ve just drove him home if not already caught on his body camera. None of this “are there any drugs, bombs ( they love the sarcasm) or anything I should worry about” crap, pulling the driver out, throwing them on the floor, putting their knees into the driver’s neck and getting handcuffed. Same gentle treatment for other officials as well. There’s a huge difference in the arrest tactics, depending on who the person is or affiliated with. Interesting show.
Those union shields, displayed on vehicles, must be worth a fortune. Think of how much money is saved by having a permanent “get out of a ticket” shield. I gotta get me one of those! Truth be told, I’ve had a slight lead foot, on Grand Avenue and 57, a couple of times. I’ve been stopped about three times, in the last 30 years for speeding, approximately 10 miles over the limit if traffic was light. I fully cooperated and was treated very politely by the officers, around here. But, back to the pay….hooovaaaa! Unions are awesome! There’s a reason large corporations hate unions.
My brother in law is a police officer here and makes well into six figures with all of his overtime. He has a beach house and always has a new pickup. Mind you he’s not the brightest bulb so I guess we should be happy for him? But then again I can’t help you honking it’s a bit of a racket.
This is not the racket. The racket is when he can retire after 20 years with a full pension.
stop. You, too can be a cop. Let's all post our salaries. Full disclosure for all citizens.
Public workers are paid 100% by the taxpayers who have virtually no control. Private workers are part of entities that individuals have a choice (to some degree) as to whether to purchase or not.
ole timer - mechanical engineer, 37 years old, 100k salary, no paid overtime, expected overtime and available 24/7. 4 year degree that was more costly than was is required to become a cop. firm believer if you want more money go earn more and i don't fault any cop for what they earn. I just feel the public should be able to have more of a say in what we pay government employees that this self feeding cycle the older generation created. Wife is employed by warren county, hourly but equates out to 42k a year. Has been with that job for more than a decade, has to deal with the same clientele that cops have to deal with, where is her compensation/early retirement?
Software developer with a masters degree in comp sci. 170k
I just think it’s ludicrous that police officers with an associates degree can make what I make considering the education costs I paid out to get to where I am.
I’m not upset about pensions, because I think the type of capitalism in this country is particularly brutal towards the working people and favors the one percent.
I’d rather see workers get more and people like Bezos get less, but I guess I’m in the minority.
The pensions would be less of an issue if police officers were compensated in line with their skills and education.
The pensions and retiree medical. Medical until medicare is costly. This is how many cops retire early and then do odd jobs for another 10 or 20 years. At the end of the day the taxpayer needs to be considered. To offer excessive compensation and benefits is corruption.
For those of you that are serving or retired from service on this forum reading the comments above this is not the voice of everyone.
Again thank you serving (Military,Officers, Firefighters, EMT, volunteers) you all put your lives on line for public safety. You earn and deserve every penny you are paid and you have earned every penny in compensation that you credited!
I am really disappointed in some of the comments above and we call our selfs a compassionate - empathetic nation.
Liberty you do realize that money is made up and it only represents you piece of the "pie." When money is shifted or skewed to a certain group others get less. For example, we all can't be compensated 1 million dollars per year without devaluing much much further the currency. So be careful using words like they deserve more... Do you know who is underpaid, a Brinks employee.
Agree LibertyThinker. Salary is not always equal to the job you’re doing, I highly doubt a software developer is putting their life on the line every day they go to work. Maybe you get a paper cut. If you’re thinking is representative of a Master’s degree “Friendly” it just proves that your piece of paper doesn’t give you common sense.
lots of educated derelicts
Everyone looking at those pay listings, a few things:
Google the name. The first listing, James Abney, is a retired police chief who was politically appointed to be police director. That's politics, folks. It doesn't represent the rank and file.
All the top listed folks are top brass, which means politically connected.
iJay - I know I've clashed with you before on this, and you have firm opinions on stuff you don't know a damn thing about, but the pensions for police and fire in NJ are *legally mandated* and the members of said pensions pay into them from day one on the job. The *sole* reason the pension systems are in any financial trouble is because the politicians (and by association, the taxpayers) took a decade long vacation from putting in their contribution. Don't blame the workers, blame your elected officials.
As far as medical? I'm a retired firefighter. I'm paying 10k a year for my 'free' medical. It's expensive, alright. I know, I see it come out of my pension check every month. As an added bonus, with ever increasing medical costs and inflation, I get no cost of living increases. So my pension check is worth roughly 20% less than when I retired a bit more than 3 years ago.
As far as retirement age goes, do you really want a 60+ year old first responder? You obviously have exactly zero idea of what a 25 year long career of being exposed to to the worst society has to offer, lots of stress, poor sleep and nonstop exposure to carcinogens can do, as well as the physical toll it takes on the body.
You've never served the public. I can tell.
Hey, Friendly mcfacezz...
A quick note on your 'college educated superiority'...
Do I have a masters in comp sci? Nope.
However, I can go find you and/or your family in a burning structure and get them out. I know the behavior of fire and it's effects on different building constructions. I have been trained on responding to hazmat and confined space rescues. I can use specialized tooling to remove the twisted wreck of a vehicle that's got you trapped from around you so we can get you to the hospital. I know how to keep you alive long enough to reach the doctors in the hospital.
You, on the other hand, probably don't know what side of a screwdriver to hold. I'm not denigrating your 'Comp Sci' paper, but by the same token, saying that someone who 'doesn't have a degree' doesn't deserve to be paid for their skills is pretty ignorant for an 'educated' person.
This sort of attitude is why we don't have any skilled tradesmen left. It's OK to get your hands dirty and without folks who do, as a society we can't exist.
Well said The_Bishop. College degree does not equal intelligence or competency. I have met persons with masters degrees who can't put a sentence together. These cops, first responders see and deal with crap most never see outside of tv/movies. They get 6 months of academy training and 20 to 30 years of real world training. Again, if you think it's easy, go do it, and do it for less. And don't take pension, health benefits or any other perk.
As they saying goes. No can do, then preach.
When you dial 911, that cop, firefighter or emt/paramedic is gonna show up. Around here from what I've seen its about in that order. So that over paid, under trained cop is gonna help keep you alive til that ambulance or firetruck shows up. So instead of asking about his/her pay or pension. Maybe say thanks instead.
And if you go with the "that's their job" bs, then so then is their pay and pension.
I invite the haters to join their local fire department, ambulance Corp, become a cop, or any front line group that responds to emergency situations at all hours of the day.
Either run with the big dogs or just bark like annoying chihuahuas!
Well said The_Bishop and Justpassinthru. I have friends and Relatives who are Police, Fire Fighters, EMT's. Most paid but a number are Volunteer. I do not have an issue with what they are paid. When there is a fire or an accident, Police are usually the first on the scene and quite often risk their lives in rescues. Not too many people will do that for a stranger.
One poster said "Why wouldn't I be a cop? Because I have a sense of honor."
You are saying the Police have no honor, to you I say that tells me you already have no honor, you should put your money where your mouth is and show the world that Police can have honor instead of whining about it.
All jobs, and people, should be respected.
However, on average, each degree adds to the average bottom line. There too, there can be winners and losers and for those working without degrees.
My point is overtime is grand, glad to have expert security support at other events. However, there comes a point where someone is just plain overworked, and, in these jobs, especially the ones with armed workers, that may be riskier than a sw geek's job. IMO, that's the only risk here and it should be avoided.
Same issue holds true the world over but IMO the risk to public safety may be greater for those whose jobs require them to be armed.
"One poster said "Why wouldn't I be a cop? Because I have a sense of honor."
You are saying the Police have no honor, to you I say that tells me you already have no honor, you should put your money where your mouth is and show the world that Police can have honor instead of whining about it."
I stand by what I said. And I have friends that were cops. I have no problem telling that to their face.
I put my money where my mouth is- I was a medic in the army and a nationally registered EMT.
There are COUNTLESS videos online of morally wrong things cops do every day.
The same can't often be said for emt / firefighters / military.
There are cops that do good things- but there is no such thing as a cop that hasn't done bad things- much under the guise of 'just doing my job'.
Anyone who doesn't think so just hasn't looked. If you need examples- I can certainly link to youtube videos. It's eye opening.
So Josh, a firefighter who starts a fire and gets caught is morally okay? That isn't morally wrong?
There excuse when a cop does something bad is well there's always a few bad appels. They always forget the rest of that quote. That a few bad apples spoil the bunch. When one does bad they put up that "thin" blue line and protect any wrong doing. As for the fire fighter who is getting angry. No one is saying that about firemen. I believe they deserve more in this world.
@Josh, have you ever got a ticket on the road or been arrested? Have you ever covered for a friend or Family member? Almost sounds like you have a vendetta against the Police.
I never said the Police were perfect, they are actually human and can and do make mistakes as do we all. I know a number of Police Officers who are ex/retired Military and you are saying they have no honor.
I cannot imagine our lives without Police, would be one hell of a place to have to live and survive. Could I do it, but I wouldn't want to have to.
Politicians, tech workers, nurses, ect.. all make mistakes and or break the law. On the whole most professions are staffed with just that, professionals. As far a videos, most show things out of context for shock value. Do police go too far on the more rare than not occasion?Yes. Humas are fallabel. Most of what we see on the news or social media are direct result of non compliance. I've been stopped got tickets,even arrested once. I did what I was given those summonses for. I didn't run, fight or be an a#$. And amazingly I was not shot or injured in anyway. The place to fight is court, civilly.
So yes, having been on the receiving end, I still support the first responders and military. They do a hard job, away from family on holidays, crappy weather and deal with the sane,the drugged up, mentally ill, and just plain hostile and ignorant.
For every video there is of bad, there are ten fold good things they do every day. Just no one makes money posting or reporting them.
Richie- "So Josh, a firefighter who starts a fire and gets caught is morally okay? That isn't morally wrong?"
I'd assume less than 99.9
I'd flip the percent for cops.
Mr 4 Paws-
have you ever got a ticket on the road or been arrested?
Yes- driving home from my sisters house in a Toyota Corolla - got pulled over- 1 of 2 license plate bulb lights out- they said I had a warrant for an unpaid parking ticket that I had no idea what they were talking about- they arrested me- towed & impounded the car- brought me to the station and cuffed me to a bench until my bro-in-law- after my phone call- came and bailed me out- for several hundreds of dollars- and this was decades ago- and then drove me home- and I then paid several hundred more to get my car out of impound- and paid the ticket due.
I don't even know what ticket they were talking about- as I don't go places that have parking restrictions to even get a ticket- but I paid it- because you know what?
You can't fight the B.S.- even if you go to court and are found innocent- you pay the court cost, and lose a day of work pay, gas, time, freedom.
Complete B.S. system- the judge gets paid from the same pile of money by finding people guilty or plea bargain. He, just like lawyers- has stats like an NFL player that they are more concerned with than doing the right thing.
Best to stay off the radar- out of the system- hope others keep them busy in their organized thinly veiled theft.
Sorry you are one of the sheep- hope it doesn't bite you in the ass.
"Have you ever covered for a friend or Family member?"
Absolutely not- do the crime- do the time.
"Almost sounds like you have a vendetta against the Police."
No- I have awareness, knowledge and FACTS.
"I never said the Police were perfect, they are actually human and can and do make mistakes as do we all."
Problem is- normal people are corrected, punished / and eventually fired for their mistakes.
I've already said- I can show you easily hundreds of videos where cops are on camera doing bad things...even the ones in high charge- no punishment.
Even when bad enough public outrage that SOMETHING 'needs to be done' they get paid leave- then either resign or re-assigned - to carry on somewhere else.
"I know a number of Police Officers who are ex/retired Military and you are saying they have no honor."
One does not equal the other. Military police are naturally taught 'police tactics'.
Police by it's very nature is only concerned about their control of people to their own standard / desire - even if that is against the right thing to do- and often against actual law & rights.
Do you know that cops are NOT required to know the laws they are enforcing or charging you with?
Do you know that cops are NOT required to protect you?
Do you know if cops literally and provably do something wrong they are legally protected with 'immunity'?
You seriously need to do research and learn REALITY- as opposed to what you THINK you know.
"I cannot imagine our lives without Police, would be one hell of a place to have to live and survive."
I can. But it's a world where everyone around us does the right thing- is a good person- AND is self responsible / sufficient.
"Could I do it, but I wouldn't want to have to."
Have never met you...but I doubt you could. Survival takes awareness.
Thoughtful post - thanks for sharing your perspective (and civilly) Josh
Bishop, you prove my points. "Legally Mandated"??? How the hell did it get that way to begin with? Same as educators but twisted worse. Union negotiators know it is easier to get compensation on the backend (pensions and retiree medical). Bottom line is we don't compensate state workers as the taxpayer covers all of it. How come VA cops make much less?
Josh, I like your thoughts. How many of us knew trouble makers in school who ended ups as cops. Older generation cops with barely a HS degree mistreating the public.
This conversation here went off the rails as usual. Someone asked for people to post their salaries and I did. Got a lot of negative reactions and honestly don’t care.
Not sure why my observation that a police officer with an associates degree can make the same as a software developer with a masters degree that pulls in lots of revenue for his employer is off base. It’s a rational opinion and I stand by it. hostility will not change it.
My observations were also based on a family member who is a police officer thick as nails and is able to afford a beach house and a new truck every few years. Maybe I’m jealous. I’ll admit this.
I wasn’t talking about firefighters or EMTs or laborers or anybody else as the title of this thread states.
I think police officers are over paid here.
My .02 respectfully shared and appreciate the respectful conversation with fellow Htown residents.
Let’s be neighborly and show some respect to each other please.
The thread topic is about police officers pay. That’s it. Not military (who are paid bupkis). Not EMTs (I’ve yet to see an EMT abuse another human being). Not firemen (who, in rural areas, like here, also puts their lives on the line, to save others, FREE, no less). They are volunteers.
We should all stick to the subject, at hand, and not pivot, spin and deflect.
No deflect or pivot. The police do what you don't and won't. They sacrifice their time with their families to protect yours. Saying they are all bad is ignorant. They may not come home at the end of the day or night. Not random accident going to or from. But someone intentionally killing them. They deal with those that hate them for just showing up.
Look to Portland and every other place where they have been villainized. The places are shi holes, and spiraling out of control. Yes, a small percent have done bad things. Go be one and make it better. Show how it should be done. Don't take the ot, pension or high pay.
They do the grunt work we don't and get paid for what they may have to do. Step up chihuahuas and put your homelives and possibly your life on the line.
On a side note ice cream maker Ben and Jerry's support defunding the police and proceeds from a new flavor will go towards a bill to defund the police . It's expensive garbage ice cream anyway , I stopped eating it years ago . And a note of irony the member of congress who wrote the bill spent 60 thousand dollars of her campaign funds on private security to the man she married .