BOE class 3 officers

BOE class 3 officers

At the BOE meeting Wednesday night the shared services agreement between the school and the town that would be the agreement for a School Resource Officer/Class 3. For those of you that don’t know a SRO/Class 3 is an armed security guard in the building protecting our children and being part of the school community. These officers are managed by the police department in town. Which is standard for this type of security.

The vote for the agreement which is the first step to getting these officers failed 5-5

Vote breakdown below:

Burke - No
Cavanagh - Yes
Cochran - Yes
Gaddy (Allamuchy rep)- Abstained
Herbst - No
Hibler - No
Maciag - Yes
Moore - No
Soobryan - Yes
Strelec - Yes
Wenthen (Great Meadows rep) - No

Earlier this year, the school did a survey of the parents and staff that revealed 98% of those who took the survey supported this. The results are below. You can also watch the BOE broadcast on the website to see what was said and by which members.

We have a $30,000,000 dollar budget and the cost of these officers is $300k per year.

No matter your position on this the BOE needs to hear from you. Their job is to vote for what we want. Not their personal agendas. They stated they hadn’t heard from many parents so it’s our time to have our voices heard. I guess the survey wasn’t good enough for the 5 who said no.

Email: board@hackettstown.org

Our kids safety for a “what if” scenario is worth it.

Htowndad1234 Htowndad1234
Oct '22

More like they're just pushing their own personal views and not what the people want. My daughters school district has one in every school here in PA. Vote the opposers out.

Metsman Metsman
Oct '22

I’d like to see a breakdown of the $30 million dollar budget. Or better yet see the zero based starting point on how that budget was built. Then we can talk about adding to it.

Also not sure having any cop there all day matters especially after what went down in parkland and ulvalde. Cowards looking to score a double pension aren’t needed.

Mike H Mike H
Oct '22

I’m confused… I went to HHS in the early 00s and we already had an armed resource officer back then… I remember the same exact controversy of some parents being for and some being against it, but he was there.

Did this change in the last 20 years? We got rid of security and now want it back? Or am I missing something?


What they never want to talk about is the cost to maintain that football field that wasn’t properly conceived or the overall athletic budget. Make football pay to play then let’s talk about adding fluff. So amazing how government won’t run a budget like the average household. The idea that the tax payer is all absorbing and better yet blind is amazing. Something tells me that field will cost close to $1M to have maintained.

Mike H Mike H
Oct '22

Htowndad1234, you reference the Town and the police department. Has the Mayor and Council and the PD signed onto this agreement? I have seen nothing in Mayor and Council meeting minutes to indicate they have and without their approval this will not happen. Please enlighten me.

Towny Towny
Oct '22

I heard the Mayor has NOT signed off on it. There's a lot not being said.

Mike H Mike H
Oct '22

Mike H, who’s “they”….. aren’t you on the Board? Pay to play..what? “Cowards looking to score a double pension aren’t needed” WOW nice statement and truly portrays your ignorance so glad to have educators like you in the public schools.... (eye roll)

We’re talking about armed security, and you’re going on a tangent about a sports, the field, insulting police etc.... So let's give the people what they want and get back on topic.

Towny at the board meeting the vote was to approve the final shared service agreement to submit to the town. But yes it was shared that the superintendent, board, town officials and police dept. have met and discussed this in length.

bk2topic bk2topic
Oct '22

Hackettstown is THE ONLY district in Warren County and on the short list of districts in all of NJ without an SRO/Class 3 officer in our buildings. The district has put a lot into preventative measures and mental health help at the HS, which is fabulous, but it needs to go hand in hand. If there is an active shooter in the HS, rescent history shows it will most likely be a student. However, if there is an active shooter in one of the elementary schools, it'll be a lunatic looking for a body count! We need new board members who have actually stepped foot in our schools in the last ten years and actually know what the needs of our district are. Not washed up members and tired teachers who would rather stay complacent instead of doing something to better the district and keep up with what surrounds the town where they believe "it will never happen". Great Meadows and Allamuchy representatives should not have a say in anything our district does unless it is strictly about the HS. Although I'm curious to know what Great Meadows parents think about Wenthen representing them and being COMPLETELY against giving their children a chance at not get murdered! It's time to speak up and make your voices heard! Not just complaining on social media or at your kid's practice. If you can't attend a board meeting, write an email! You can't keep leaving it up to the same parents who show up. They use the excuse that they haven't heard from parents, so no one wants a change. We need better for our kids!!!

Htownmama Htownmama
Oct '22

Towny- the agreement was with town council and the PD and the 5 voted no against it. I highly suggest looking at the BOE agenda from last month to see the agreement. It is in the agenda. You can also watch the entire BOE meeting from last week. Burke had some insane comments in my opinion as to why he voted no. My favorite is when they went up to vote he said a RESOUNDING no. Like my kids safety isn’t worth the $300k and he needed to exaggerate it. Give me a break.

Htowndad1234 Htowndad1234
Oct '22

Kat- I don’t know about the early 00s but we have no armed security now.

Htowndad1234 Htowndad1234
Oct '22

Also towny the town isn’t paying for any of this even though in some towns they do. Burke wants the town to pay for some of it which was a point he made. The entire thing is a complete mess.

Htowndad1234 Htowndad1234
Oct '22

bk2topic- The person posting as Mike H is Steven a longtime poster here on HL. His avatar is the same green symbol. Mike Herbst posts by his name or at times Crazy Jane.


"being COMPLETELY against giving their children a chance at not get murdered! "

Can we stop with the hysterics, please. There have been enough shootings where police were in the schools already. How did Parkland and Uvalde turn out?

Under the "give our children a chance to not get murdered" mantra, why not just mandate armed police at all after school events, little league games, stationed all throughout malls, let's get rid of busses as well (might get into an accident on the way to school or a field trip like on rte 80 a few years back).

Jnnjr Jnnjr
Oct '22

Additionally there are board members who cite that school safety is the number one issue and concern and fiscal responsibility is third. Yet athletics probably represent the largest chunk of the budget behind salaries you would probably need to look hard to where they placed security all these years while worrying about the record of the football team.

Mike H Mike H
Oct '22

Also they did a survey. We want the officers. This has come up before as well. Herbst was against it then too. It’s their personal agendas. They aren’t voting for what we are saying we want.

Also allamuchy and great meadows are you paying attention to your reps?

Htowndad1234 Htowndad1234
Oct '22

I'm perfectly fine, thanks for asking. That's fine if you want armed police in the school. Honestly, I have no opinion on the subject. BUT, staying that no armed police in the school means your children will be murdered is being hysterical.

Jnnjr Jnnjr
Oct '22

I don't have any skin in the game other than my tax dollars, but I would like to see improved security even if that means armed officers. Lets face it the law and order climate in the US has changed a bit for a variety of reasons and the criminal element as well as just plain nut jobs are seizing the moment. Preventive is always better than reactive in my opinion.


I think it's important to share context as it relates to this situation as a whole, as well as the facts about this particular motion and the financial impact.

Since the start of 2018 – a 4 ½ year period – there have been 119 school shootings, according to Education Week. That’s more than two school shootings (2.2) a month or 26 school shootings a year over that time.

Last year surpassed this average # of school shootings with 34 - the highest number of school shootings ever recorded.

This is not hysteria. These are the facts. This is the real world we are living in.

Some of those who are against having an SRO officer have expressed concerns about having a gun in school and cite instances of when SROs failed – beyond the Uvalde response – when they have made human errors like the instance where he Elliott Point Elementary School resource officer left her loaded handgun in a school restroom.

Others who support the added safety measure counter how the SRO in Dixon, Ill, quickly brought down the armed assailant in the school and prevented the carnage of innocents.

This issue has been on the radar and discussed by the New Jersey School Boards Association for years. Through its School Security Taskforce, they concluded:

“(the) NSJBA committee concurs with the 2014 NJSBA task force finding on the value of a properly trained law enforcement officer to student security and the education program.”

It is important to note here that NJSBA School Security Taskforce also concluded that a safe and secure school environment requires the fostering of a supportive and nurturing learning environment, as well as protection from outside/inside threats. Trained law enforcement, school administrators, educators and school safety professionals, properly trained [pursuant to state law], together help to ensure that our children will learn in the most positive and constructive school environment possible.

We can talk about when a mass school shooting happens, but to talk about those that don’t – the one’s we often never hear about should be part of the discussion too.

Beginning in 2019, through a federal community-oriented policing grant, the National Police Foundation (NPF) established the nationwide Averted School Violence (ASV) database, which collects information on school attacks—completed and averted—with the goal of mitigating and ultimately preventing future injuries in educational institutions.

The data has continued to grow, and despite the rising number of school shootings, the ASV database as it is known now contains more than three times as many cases of averted incidents of school violence than it did in 2019.

In each reported averted school attack there was no single security measure out of the 17 listed that was in use by more than half of the schools. Still, of those security measures in place at schools in adverted attacks, security officers or police officers at the school were the primary security measure (45.8% of the adverted attacks) in place.

In more than half of the adverted attacks (59%) in the database, the thwarted perpetrator was stopped by being “arrested/tackled/ otherwise physically restrained.”

Jami Cavanagh Jami Cavanagh
Oct '22

To be clear, what the BOE did not pass was still just a draft agreement. It included the changes the board had plus initial input from the Mayor, former chief and PD. Also, it is not 300K, but that is the number that was thrown out Wednesday night. During the meeting I asked Tim (the BA) to clarify and he said it was roughly $45K per officer ($35 per hour). With 4 schools that is not 300K. That said, there are initial, one-time start up costs associated that are just under $9K each (this could be scaled down depending on uniform, etc.). That's under $220K for the first year, then recurring salary of approximately 180K.

The shared services agreement can be found on P. 215 at this link: https://4.files.edl.io/1326/10/20/22/145646-92de578f-1aa5-44f5-a24e-7ae2cc663f94.pdf

A Class III officer is an employee of the Police Department, and as so reports to the Chief of Police/Township, not the BOE. The DRAFT agreement did include school/board oversight functions for the officer(s) including, but not limited to: (direct copy and paste from the public agenda)

- If the Superintendent finds any of the SLEO IIIs recommended for hired by the Township to be unacceptable, the Chief will hire a different officer, or in the alternative, revoke this Agreement.
- Following the initial selection and hiring, the Township has sole discretion -- with input from the Chief of Police and Board Superintendent or their respective designees -- and shall have the power and authority to hire, discharge and discipline any of the SLEO III in accordance with their process and procedures. The Board reserves the right to request an alternate SLEO III from the Township should any officer’s job performance be contrary to Police Department policies, the Code of Conduct applicable to police employees and BOE standards. The decision to grant or deny this request shall be the responsibility of the Chief of Police in collaboration with the Board Superintendent.

There is a Security forum on November 9th at the High School that anyone interested in learning more about Class III officers and other options moving forward should attend.

As shared at the board meeting on Wednesday, this is something that can be revisited in January after the "new board" is in place, as well.

Jami Cavanagh Jami Cavanagh
Oct '22

Jami Cavanagh

Thanks for the well-reasoned and informative response, including the references you cited and the links to the agreement.

Phil D. Phil D.
Oct '22

Thanks for the clarification Jami! Hopefully this will get passed soon.

Htowndad1234 Htowndad1234
Oct '22

Here's a thought to cut unnecessary money out and put it towards the safety of everyone. Get rid of 3 Vice Principals!!! Do you honestly need 4?????

htownlifer htownlifer
Oct '22

htownlifer,
They only have one VP up at the high school and refuse to hire another. They have it in the budgit and refuse to post or do anything about it. What's the hold up with this hiring? What about the Superintendant job? Look at the board members that just voted no for SRO. Some need to go and are just so disconnected from the public.

tiger4life tiger4life
Oct '22

Wouldn’t it be more cost effective to either assign a current Police Officers to school duty on a rotating basis, several hours a day apiece or with overtime or add another officer to the force with Municipalities feeding into the High School dividing the cost?
Rubber stamping a new $300k position ( which will quickly increase to $350K-$400K if history is prolog)
sounds like a tremendous waste of funds.
Maybe fewer hours BSing, idling in vehicles door to door in the Livestock Auction parking lot would cover some of the cost.
How many school days are there in one scholastic year?
Well, divide the number into $300K and you’ll see what an incredible overcharge that is.
I’d vote NO, also.

Stymie Stymie
Oct '22

Looked it up.
180 days mandatory in NJ school term.
Equals $1,667 per day.
Equals $208 per hour.
Anyone that votes yes should permanently lose the right to complain about property taxes.

Stymie Stymie
Oct '22

If there is anything property taxes are worth going up for or paying for, it's the protection of our children in the schools.

Weather Buff
Oct '22

I know some districts hire retired police offers as SROs

3wbdwnj 3wbdwnj
Oct '22

way too much misinformation on this thread. Attend meetings and get accurate information.

Jim L. Jim L.
Oct '22

How many cops do you require.
One?
Two?
A full platoon failed in Uvalde.

Stymie Stymie
Oct '22

The entire point of this thread Jim is that parents need to wake up and get more involved.

Stymie i hope you don’t have children in a school where you ever experience a tragedy of this magnitude.

Htowndad1234 Htowndad1234
Oct '22

Thank you for the information, Jami. Stymie, the way I read it, it’s not $300k a year for one position. Is it? Maybe I’m wrong.

I’d like to lower property taxes as much as the next guy but honestly, if there is one thing worth the extra couple bucks a month, it’s the safety of the students. That said, whoever is hired for this position needs to be an absolute monster of a man. Possibly former military that will have the guts and will to actually put his life on the line to save others lives. Remember the SRO in Florida that was hiding outside? We don’t need any if that.

Consigliere
Oct '22

100% in support of Ms. Wenthens voting against this complete waist of tax dollars. Your kids have a 10,000 more chance of dying in a car accident then they do of dying in a school shooting. You cannot prevent life's tragedies no matter how much you try. It is just all part of going thru this world.

hammer hammer
Oct '22

No hyowndad- I’m just paying for the teachers, building maintenance, sports programs, and breakfast and lunch for dozens of students.
Drawing the line on a feel good, ineffective expenditure while the area allows for the uninhibited flow of firearms.
Mike Drop

Stymie Stymie
Oct '22

Wouldn't metal detectors in the vestibule before being buzzed into the school do more to prevent someone with a gun coming into the school? And a one time cost (other than maintenance) rather than ongoing salaries?

HtownParent
Oct '22

"The entire point of this thread Jim is that parents need to wake up and get more involved."

yea but there is so much misinformation.
1) SROs will not cost $300k a year. They are $45k positions and you need 4 of them. Thats an annual budget of $180k not $300k.

2) And most likely, The BOE would remove an unarmed security position at each school and replace them with a SRO. So you remove a $35-$40k position and replace them with a $45k position the net increase to your budget is only $20k-$40k more a year. Not $300k.

Jim L. Jim L.
Oct '22

Jim

Thanks for the clarification. Honestly the lower numbers make this NO vote even worse. And the fact remains they sent out a survey and they still said no. Pathetic.

Htowndad1234 Htowndad1234
Oct '22

Why isn’t the cost broken down in plain English like Jim’s post? An increase of $20-30k a year divided by all the residents seems negligible. Especially when the high school just spend a million dollars on a new track. Priorities are seriously F’d up.

Consigliere
Oct '22

Appreciate the arrival of a few FACTS and alternative suggestions to the discussion.
Although noting the very informative comments above by Mr. Cavanaugh, I think what might be useful is some information on how "interested parties" can bring this to the Board for further discussion in a more timely manner than waiting for a "new" board to be seated in January . Perhaps organizing around and using the Nov 9th meeting on the subject as a springboard to advance the affirmative position could be considered.

New2this New2this
Oct '22

New2this- Mr. Cavanaugh is actually Ms. Cavanaugh. Jami is a woman.


Do these four $45K positions received health benefits?
Add $15K+ depending on family size.
Retirement plans?
Add who can even guess.
Above figures times 4 for 4 positions.
You’re over a quarter million to START.
Are they in a Union?
Way to minimize additional govt spending JimL

Stymie Stymie
Oct '22

Class III officers do not receive health insurance or retirement benefits.

https://www.nj.com/news/2018/03/armed_guards_or_retired_cops_in_nj_schools_whats_t.html

Jami Cavanagh Jami Cavanagh
Oct '22

These are retired police officers I believe who already have lifetime benefits and a pension.

Jami please correct if I am wrong.

Htowndad1234 Htowndad1234
Oct '22

You are correct, Htowndad1234.

https://www.njsba.org/news-publications/school-leader/may-june-2017-volume-47-6/law-enforcement-schools-new-option-available-new-jersey/

Jami Cavanagh Jami Cavanagh
Oct '22

There's the mic drop.... LOL


“Way to minimize additional govt spending JimL”

Just pointing out all the misinformation. Started at $300 and as you can see the reality is more like $40k at the most.

No Health benefits. No retirement benefits. No pension.

Jim L Jim L
Oct '22

So you’re hiring 4 self employed security “officers”
No health insurance?
No benefits?
So I guess you have how many hours of coverage they provide an an hourly cost breakdown?
Or, your just spinning out numbers not based on fact.
Which is my suspicion.

Stymie Stymie
Oct '22

They are not self employed…. As pulled from one of the links I posted—

Class Three SLEO – What is It? Signed by Gov. Christie in November 2016, the new Class Three SLEO law established a new type of school security personnel. Class Three SLEOs will be hired for the explicit purpose of providing security at public or nonpublic schools when schools are in session or occupied by students or staff. They will also be authorized to provide security at the state’s county colleges.

Enactment of the legislation was the culmination of a years-long effort by stakeholders from the education and law enforcement communities, with the backing of the two task forces charged with improving school security.

The Class Three SLEO concept was originally developed by the New Jersey State Association of Chiefs of Police (NJSACOP), which envisioned the position as an SLEO who would receive additional, specialized training and be assigned to schools. NJSACOP presented the idea to the New Jersey School Board Association’s School Security Task Force and later to the New Jersey School Security Task Force. While making clear their belief that the employment of a school resource officer is the ideal choice if a local board of education decides to institute an armed law enforcement presence in a school, both task forces ultimately endorsed the Class Three SLEO proposal.

I’m sorry but I don’t understand your other question(s).

Jami Cavanagh Jami Cavanagh
Oct '22

The vote was an up or down on forwarding a flawed proposed contract to the town. The contract states the BOE pays 100% of the cost and has zero control over who is hired and what they do day in and day out. And before anyone starts, language that states consult the Superintendent is not the same as control.

While true I do not support armed police in our schools, I have a bigger issue with the BOE footing the bill for employees we have no control over. We can and should have a more equitable agreement, regardless of what "other districts" have agreed with their municipalities.

Shawn Burke Sr.
Oct '22

A couple questions:
Does the BOE or the town cover the uniform costs, equipment costs (weapons)?
Vehicle costs, if any, are they a part of this proposal and if so who covers the cost?
Are there training and required weapon recertification costs?
With 4 schools and 4 officers, who covers if 1 or two are out sick?
Will these officers receive vacation, sick or comp time?
Will liailbility insurance increase and if so on who, the BOE or the town or both?
Thanks

Towny Towny
Oct '22

If I recall, wasn’t former Detective Stephen Spears was hired years ago in a similar capacity.

Kb2755 Kb2755
Oct '22

Shawn Burke Sr,

1. Why hasn't the Board started the process in replacing the Vice Principal at the high school? How come the Board hasn't even started interviewing for that position yet? I believe they haven't even posted for the job yet. Why?

2. When are we opening up the Superintendant search? The board needs to move on this and not wait like I'm hearing for new members to come in. It's still the same board and maybe a change of a seat or two. So why the delay in this process?

Any updates for the parents and community you represent?

tiger4life tiger4life
Oct '22

Tiger4life why don’t you attend a BOE meeting and ask? Respectfully this thread is not about that. I’m sure you could also email them at board@hackettstown.org and someone will get back to you.

Htowndad1234 Htowndad1234
Oct '22

@ tiger4life

Those are all great questions and as individual board members we cannot speak for the “board” but if you want to come to a meeting, there are 2 public comment portions of every meeting. One is for public comment on agenda items that is open before the board moves to vote on agenda items and the second is public comment on non-agenda items toward the end of the meeting.

Your questions can be addressed there.

Additionally, all board meetings are live-streamed and if you’re not able to attend, you can watch from home and still submit comments under both items.

Directions for this can be found here: https://www.hackettstown.org/apps/pages/index.jsp?uREC_ID=1691271&type=d&pREC_ID=1914087

Jami Cavanagh Jami Cavanagh
Oct '22

@Towny - some of the answers you are seeking can be found in the DRAFT shared services agreement. See above for the link and page number.

Jami Cavanagh Jami Cavanagh
Oct '22

Jami
Thank you. As a board member you seem to be well versed on the draft so are you saying all my questions will be answered in the draft? If not all the questions can you or anyone else address the ones not in the draft?
Thank you.

Towny Towny
Oct '22

@Towny - after reviewing the draft agreement, what questions do you still have?

Jami Cavanagh Jami Cavanagh
Oct '22

Jami
I was expecting my questions to a Board member could be answered in a more positive way then to say "read the draft" since you have been responsive to others on this thread. It should not be a prerequisite to read the draft first before I ask a questions. My questions were valid ones and from someone who was trying to be part of an informative discussion. It is unfortunate that you take my questions in a negative way.

Towny Towny
Oct '22

@Towny, I am sorry that you took offense to my response. To be clear, my point with encouraging you to read the agreement (which I would encourage everyone who cares about this issue to do) was a genuine recommendation as it not only could answer a lot of your questions, but it will provide further context and information about this possible arrangement. I may read that and it answers things from my perspective, but might not for you (as I may have more background), so I genuinely wanted you to read the agreement which is what was not passed at the meeting, and then as a result perhaps the agreement would spark more questions or other clarifications on things that you may not be thinking about.

Jami Cavanagh Jami Cavanagh
Oct '22

Jami
Thank you. I will read it and follow-up if any of the questions I posed are not answered in the draft.

Towny Towny
Oct '22

Town has enough officers with enough time on their hands to spend time at the school.

Response time to the school from the PD is under 2 minutes.

I'd rather spend that money on improvements to security for the buildings and whatever is left over goes back to the education budget. 180k per year adds up. If we plan to use these buildings for the next 50-100 years like we have previously it just makes sense to spend the money on building security like locks, doors, and cameras.

We've sadly seen too many times how SRO's have failed to protect children. We've seen cowardice, and misconduct. With the lives of our children on the line we cannot risk their inaction.

Adding SRO's also opens up an entirely new discussion in regards to liability and lawsuits. One wrong decision by them and we as a whole could be out thousands if not millions.

I hope they choose a different path than this.

RJHawkins RJHawkins
Oct '22

I agree, spend less money, and spend on police department instead of another rent-a-cop failure in waiting.

Babbit Babbit
Oct '22

Yep too many coward cops especially when getting a fat paycheck to sit in a chair. Spend it on locks and cameras and education. Those buildings are ancient and could use a lot of improvements. Sorry but all our schools look outdated compared to neighboring schools. Except for the football field of course. Shows the priorities of the BOE.

Mike H Mike H
Oct '22

It’s clear Mike doesn’t like the football team. Literally all he can talk about lol

Htowndad1234 Htowndad1234
Oct '22

Isn’t the field used for multiple sports?
Both boy’s and girl’s teams?
Seems to be a well utilized facility.

Stymie Stymie
Oct '22

It is used for multiple sports. I have no issues with the football team. I have issue with what appears to be an unbalanced heavy sided athletic budget vs academics and now what appears to be safety. Over the years arts and languages as well as other academic / art programs. That’s all I’m saying.

Mike H Mike H
Oct '22

When that field was built, with natural grass, it was utilized for maybe 4-5 football games and 5-7 track meets a year, and that was it. It needed to be mowed and lined every week, and otherwise cared for year round.

Since it was changed to turf, it is utilized for football , boys soccer, girls soccer, field hockey, lacrosse, boys and girls track, all contact LL football games, all LL track meets, etc. All with extremely low maintenance.

So enough about the turf field. Move on with your lives.

Shawn Burke Sr.
Oct '22

Right but it was a no bid contract and now the town is in the hook for how much in maintenance? Care to share the number? Is it close to the original cost if the field?

Mike H Mike H
Oct '22

In order to be competitive in sports you need a turf field. So many of our sports use it. I’d guess every high school in the area has one. I don’t get the complaint?

Htowndad1234 Htowndad1234
Oct '22

Nearly a million to put in and about the same to maintain. Again, it's all about priorities. Now that we have the athletics covered, let's talk about security, then we can talk about academics.

Mike H Mike H
Oct '22

"So enough about the turf field. Move on with your lives."

A very arrogant statement.

Um, I don't think so. As long as tax dollars are involved so should the TAXPAYERS!


A million to maintain? Where did you get that number?

As for arrogance, the field was put in over a decade ago, agreed upon by a completely different BOE and administration I might add, and we're still bringing it up? Really?

I pointed out the vastly expanded use of the facility, and you can weigh any costs of maintenance against having to maintain 3 natural turf varsity fields instead of 1 synthetic turf field.

This is an old and worn out discussion. The field is here to stay. Let the kids enjoy it.

Shawn Burke Sr.
Oct '22

Thank you to the board members who voted no. I hope the new board doesn't reverse that decision. One armed guard at the school is little compared to other upgraded security measures mentioned. You're fooling yourselves if you think that would be money well spent to protect our children.

HtownParent
Oct '22

Htown parent it will most likely be reversed. Mike Herbst is leaving and the new candidates for the board all support it. I also believe they should split up the contracts so that the 2 BOE members who do not have any say in our k-8 schools cannot vote. (This is my opinion).

In addition to the other security measures they should absolutely be adding an armed officer. We are one of the only districts in the county (and i believe Morris and Sussex as well) to not have these officers. you are kidding yourself if you think a crazed person wouldn’t figure this out and target our schools. Shooting up a school is becoming a thing. Our kids deserve a safe learning environment and if an SRO can make any difference it’s worth it.

Please do not thank them for not listening to what the majority of who they represent want. A BOE is there to represent us not their personal agendas.

Htowndad1234 Htowndad1234
Oct '22

Please take a moment and read what the vote was about.

BOE pays all the costs, has zero control, even over the selection of the officer.

Would any of you agree to that in your homes or businesses?

We need a better agreement, or go with in house or private security where we have oversight.

Shawn Burke Sr.
Oct '22

A crazed person?
Try one of your sons that either got turned down for the Prom or sits in his room playing Grand Theft Auto.
—staticallyspeaking only-

Stymie Stymie
Oct '22

Glad to see the failed. Last thing anyone needs is cops in schools. Cops haven’t done a bit of good in parkland or uvalde.

Mom2three
Oct '22

Yeah stymie not really. Elementary school shootings are not from current students. In fact parkland was not a current student. Neither was uvalde or sandy hook. But try again.

Htowndad1234 Htowndad1234
Oct '22

Quite frankly, I’m more worried about drug use and overdoses and alcohol abuse than a potential school shooting. Statistically speaking, your child has an infinitely higher chance of dyeing from fentanyl than from someone walking into school with a gun.

Little kitty
Oct '22

My post is drastically correct.

Stymie Stymie
Oct '22

Spell check
STASTICALLY

Stymie Stymie
Oct '22

It’s not but okay.

And little kitty the schools job isn’t to keep your kids off drugs. That’s a parents job. The schools job is to make sure it’s not coming into the building.

Htowndad1234 Htowndad1234
Oct '22

Mr. Burke...........Does the BOE have control and the selection of the officers that work the football and basketball games?

Richie
Oct '22

Shawn I am not disagreeing with you that not having oversight could possibly be changed. But it is similar to other contracts we have with other vendors at school from what I’m told. Like some of our therapists and subs mental health people etc.

My issue is that you said above you are against having these officers in the schools and the above survey states us parents are very much in favor of having them in our schools. As a rep for us on the BOE your vote should reflect that. I also can not understand the obsession with surveys and this board (not just you…many of you). You want to survey the high schoolers to see how they feel. That also to me is ridiculous. A 14 year old should not have a decision on this. Myself as their parent should.

Even if they fix the agreement to your liking I would bet your vote would probably still be no. Which is a red flag for me personally.

Htowndad1234 Htowndad1234
Oct '22

Imagine the information and influence you would have if you attended the meetings where these topics are discussed at length. Thank you to all who have gone out of their way to clarify the wrong information being shared, and trying to keep to the one topic at hand.

VGAVGA VGAVGA
Oct '22

Is there information on what percentage of parents participated in the survey? I can't find where so maybe it isn't true, but I recall seeing somewhere it was a small amount. If true, you can't say that the majority of parents want this.

HtownParent
Oct '22

"In order to be competitive in sports you need a turf field. So many of our sports use it. I’d guess every high school in the area has one. I don’t get the complaint?"

I'm not the original complainant, but I'll bite. How much did it cost to install a turf field? How many extracurricular programs could've been funded with that money instead? I may be a crotchety old man, but for me a school's money should go to schooling and education and proper programs and not young men getting themselves in the CTE lottery...

kingcoriander kingcoriander
Oct '22

Hackettstown barely has any parents attend meetings. Mango sent out the survey and sent many calls and follow up emails asking for people to take it. If parents don’t care to respond they can only work with what they have. Majority of who took it, want it.

Htowndad1234 Htowndad1234
Nov '22

"If parents don’t care to respond they can only work with what they have. Majority of who took it, want it."

Well to play devil's advocate perhaps the survey was flawed. Looking at the survey in your first post it says Do you support Class III, if so which school do you want them in.

Was there an option to say no to Class III? or was the only options which schools you want them in? Where is the results of showing how many said yes to Class III and how many said no? Maybe there was a no option, I can't find the survey online but just going by what you posted it looks like the only option was to choose which school you want it in. So those 313 responses certainly doesn't show the majority of parents want it. Especially when there are over 1800 kids in our district and only 313 respond the survey.

Jim L Jim L
Nov '22

There were many questions and a spot for them to put they did not support class 3 officers. Perhaps if parents are so against it then the ones who are should show up to meetings and express their desire to not have them. There are some who do show and voice their opinions both ways but it’s not many. But from the people who took it, it’s clear they want it.

Htowndad1234 Htowndad1234
Nov '22

So, 313 out of 1800. Approximately 17% of the district. A bit more if you consider some people have multiple children. The argument that the BOE works for the parents and the majority want this is obsolete. The BOE doesn't only work for 17% of parents. I definitely understand that if people don't respond they can't know this, but it isn't feasible for everyone to attend these meetings either. And perhaps the survey should have had other security measure options on it as well, not just the options of doing nothing or placing the Class III officers in the schools. I think we need another survey with all options available sent out during the school year (as opposed to the middle of summer when this one was originally sent) and with other details available included so we can all make informed decisions.

HtownParent
Nov '22

Htown parent there were other security options. Did you take the survey? I would guess not.

Htowndad1234 Htowndad1234
Nov '22

Also “middle of the summer” do parents not check their emails in the summer? Please.

Htowndad1234 Htowndad1234
Nov '22

so where is the results of the yes vs no to Class III? because the screen shot of the survey you shared only show which school the "yeses" want the class III in.

Jim L Jim L
Nov '22

I did, in fact, take the survey. Perhaps I'm remembering incorrectly, it was quite some time ago, but I don't recall an option for installing other security measures (such as cameras other than at the front, metal detectors, etc.) just them asking how we felt the security was, if we would support having the officers in the schools, which schools and if we had any other feedback. I do think there is a difference in sending a survey out in the middle of the school year vs summer when people are away on vacation and otherwise distracted with other goings on. Not to mention those parents that don't have easy access to computers regardless of when it's sent out, but I have a feeling you'd argue with that as well. Seems you are ok with the board only supporting 17% of parents as long as those parents agree with what you're saying.

HtownParent
Nov '22

The survey was sent out the Friday before July 4th weekend.

The questions were flawed and did not allow a choice for NO to each question.

The Board would do best to republish the survey with accurate questions to fully gather the opinions of the parents.

Were staff surveyed as well?

Seenit
Nov '22

This BOE is shady like an apple orchard

Mike H Mike H
Nov '22

The results of this survey and the survey that was done in 2018 were both presented at the BOE meeting in July. To clear up some of the misinformation on this thread, here goes:

1- In the 2022 security survey, there were a total of 367 people that responded and it included both staff and parents.
2 - yes, there were other security measures that were included in the survey.. and presented at the board meeting... Some of those included creating a hotline, metal detection AI (not metal detectors at the doors) and others...
3 - the BOE members did not have involvement in the creation or distribution of the survey. That was sent out from the school admin team.

I would encourage anyone who cares about this issue and understanding the facts of what has happened to date to watch the July BOE meeting (link below) and you can skip to minute mark 36 to see where Mr. Mango presented the survey results and there was a discussion..

https://www.hackettstown.org/apps/pages/index.jsp?uREC_ID=1552935&type=d&pREC_ID=1674239

The last time the school surveyed parents on our security measures was in 2018 and that.. was during the school year not in the Summer--- and there were only 252 people that responded.

I am not sure that outside emails can be sent to the board@hackettstown.org distribution group, so if it's helpful and anyone actually wants to reach out to the BOE here are the email addresses:

Burke: sburke@hackettstown.org
Cavanagh: jcavanagh@hackettstown.org
Cochran: acochran@hackettstown.org
Herbst: mherbst@hackettstown.org
Hibler: mhibler@hackettstown.org
Maciag: mmaciag@hackettstown.org
Moore: bmoore@hackettstown.org
Soobryan: bsoobryan@hackettstown.org
Strelec: cstrelec@hackettstown.org

Allamucy rep Gaddy: hgaddy@hackettstown.org
GM rep Wenthen: cwenthen@hackettstown.org

Jami Cavanagh Jami Cavanagh
Nov '22

Back to the Top | View all Forum Topics

Leave a Reply

To comment on this topic, fill out the form below. If you would like to comment directly to one person, you may click on the envelope next to the posters name if they provided their email.

Re: BOE class 3 officers
Name (Required)
Email (Protected)
Add Photo (Optional)
By pressing Submit Comment, you are agreeing to the terms and conditions.