NJ Exodus

NJ at the top of the list in 2020 yet another year. Keep raising those taxes!

https://njbmagazine.com/njb-news-now/nj-tops-most-moved-from-state-ranking-again/


BUT you now have to pump your own gas...lol Lived in NJ for 58 years, 2015 retired and moved to Pa. Pumping my own gas was something getting used to and paying more $$ for that pleasure.

Not In NJ Anymore Not In NJ Anymore
2 weeks ago

We're working on leaving. Not worth staying here anymore.


As soon as my daughter is finished with her education we will be leaving as well.

ImOnSaxton ImOnSaxton
2 weeks ago

>work in nj
>get paid a lot
>"i hate taxes"
>leave

in other news, water is wet.

see ya later guys. good luck finding your anti-corruption, low tax, high quality of life utopia in another state

NJ is consistently ranked one of the best places to live in the country. We have some of the best education, employment rate, life expentency, household income, etc.


Dear Hiker, I moved from NJ to that utopia you disparage in your post. I live in SC with low tax rates, great local education (though I do not have that consideration anymore), higher life expectancy due to excellent local medical care and not breathing the toxins in NJ air. My income has not depreciated enough to overcome the immediate savings of moving from NJ. Just the savings from the $10,000 in property tax down to $700 paid for a newer car which is not rusting away from the salt on the roads in NJ the way my older car did.


SC ranks the same or worse for quality of life, education, and life expectancy, among others, so you're wrong on all counts. But you do have lower taxes, so that's good.

QOL: https://www.countyhealthrankings.org/app/new-jersey/2020/measure/outcomes/2/map

Education: https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/education

Life Expectancy: https://www.countyhealthrankings.org/app/south-carolina/2020/measure/outcomes/147/data

In fact SC is worse for low polution health risk, and barely better for low industrial toxins. https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/natural-environment/pollution

But I'm glad you're living well.


Moved to Colorado over the summer. The drop in taxes was a factor, but the Rockies were the deciding factor. Of course having an employer pay for the move was the biggest consideration. Same job, but working from home rather than commuting to Piscataway, slight pay increase because housing costs here are nuts. But overall very satisfied with CO. That being said education in NJ is much better, access to healthcare in NJ is much better, the Museums in NYC, the zoo's in Philly and the Bronx, and of course the lack of decent Pizza, Bagels and pork roll are a detriment. There are quite a few breweries in CO, but honestly none can compare to the ones you have in Hackettstown. (Miss Joe's beer flavored beer and Matt's wide and wild assortment of really great beers.)


"SC ranks the same or worse for quality of life, education, and life expectancy, among others, so you're wrong on all counts."

Yet, despite all your links NJ is still one of the most moved out of states, and SC is still one of the most moved into states. So people must just want to have a shorter (but better) life down here than a longer one in NJ.

The "price" of freedom I guess...

Mark Mc. Mark Mc.
2 weeks ago

Hiker, wow, that was the busted extreme. Had a coffee spew when MK mentioned the schools.... And a right to work state which is a clever way to hide low wages and first to be fired in a recession. Might be nice place to retire but not to raise a family.

I love CO to visit, too brown to live. Mountains great, Red Rocks, hippy towns, old mining gambling towns, Baby Doe’s, Coors, skiing, all great. Just miss the colors of the East after awhile.

Strangerdanger Strangerdanger
2 weeks ago

That statewide average is virtually useless. .Areas within every state are above and below that "average". Wherever you move do your due diligence and decide what is best for you. NJ was not a situation that was tenable for me because of the high taxes and other things I considered drawbacks. You can quote any averages you so desire to make yourself feel better about living in NJ. All I know is that is my personal utopia with warm weather and beach access that does not come with restrictions or parking problems.


State of NJ doesn’t really give a crap regarding our taxes.
You move out.
Someone else purchases your home.
They pay the astronomical property taxes.
“ Same as it ever was... same as it ever was....”


Mark, South Carolina has been growing at about 1% for years. That's above average, but not exactly bursting at the seams. MK, actually, you seem to be just making yourself feel better now that the facts have branded you "busted." That's OK, SC is a nice place and I am glad you like it. Wouldn't raise my kids there though, might retire there myself --- it's on the list. I could do Charleston in a heartbeat.

Facts are our friends, the devil's in the details, so let's give the devil his due :>)

The real fact in all this is that NJ total population shrunk by a whopping .04% 2018-2019, or 3,800 people. We look to double that loss in 2020, a drop in the bucket considering that 17,000 and counting left the state due to covid. No, NJ is not falling off a population cliff, it is just changing as it has always changed in the past. That's the real bottom line here: what is the total population change and demographic shift year over year. Why people are coming and going is interesting, but to make your points you need to look at the totals.

NJ is no country for old man, that's for sure. I do find it funny that in our community where many openly disdain the media, so many just lap up bad NJ news when it proves their paradigm. Here's the real stuff without the media spin: https://www.unitedvanlines.com/newsroom/movers-study-2020 . From the report:

First, this is one moving company view. Maybe they cater to old farts leaving.... They are about 25% of the market, so it's just 25% of the picture.

Second, the article notes retirement is a big outbound mover, jobs are a big inbound mover. FYI, JRs conclusions, while I found them humorous, are not valid; could just be the weather or an moving company predisposition. High property taxes in the US is certainly not an economic competitive draw or retention device for fixed incomes. Yet our total tax burden in not at the top, we pay less for education than a few other states. We deliver number 1 performance in education year after year. Don’t JRs conclusions seem to be a bit of a diss for those staying, eh? I mean what does that say about the NJ collective Republican mind to feed off the Democratic trough and then lambast it after they leverage their NJ start?

Third, the story left out the report’s outbound reasons that were retirement and lifestyle, not just retirement. Inbound reasons were health, family and jobs, not just jobs. For age, 45 and above – outbound. Under 45, inbound. Salary 0-49K and 75k – 150k inbound as well, and 100k and above – outbound. IOW, retirement people with decent incomes are leaving, younger people looking for jobs, money, and a future are coming ---- is that much of a change? I was born here, was not raised here, my Dad leveraged his NJ start for a better job just like many of you. In my 30’s, I came back here to work because --- “show me the money!” Let's put JR's Democratic spin on that :>) Then I stayed because the money got better, the jobs more interesting, and the quality of life is great. We had kids, we imported our parents, and ultimately they all left NJ. Now our careers are winding down and we too will look to buy in a lower tax, lower cost, state too. SC is on the list. And we will sell our house at a grand profit to someone younger who will start the process again. At my house, been happening that way since 1865. The circle of NJ life.

From the survey, the total was 70% out, 30% in. Sounds bad. But who cares; what matters is total population which in 2018-2019, dropped only by .04%, wowser… 3,800 people… That’s expected to double this year; although we lost over 17,000 so far just due to covid… For the record, 2018-2019 was the first population loss since the 1970’s, a fact I keep mentioning every time this report comes out but yet we still get on that same tired ole NJ high tax basing bicycle ever year when they publish their report and the media writes it’s half-baked puff piece. Many launch their NJ bash forgetting it's where they got their start. I mean I'm not leaving cuz it stinks here, I am leaving because I can do better on a fixed income somewhere else. What's wrong with a young, energetic state? I am grateful for it.

For taxes, NJ ranks number 7 from the top, total burden, 2020. Property taxes, number 3 – so, somebody is raising there property taxes more. We were number 1. I do not know how our burden has changed over the years. I do know Murphy is raising taxes on the rich, but most of those are at least a county away but haven't been able to see year over year total tax burdens for NJ or any other state.

Sorry, facts are our friends, but tend to make for longer posts :>)

strangerdanger strangerdanger
2 weeks ago

Don't deny the trend. We have high-income folks moving out and usually to the South. Denying and doing nothing will just get us in a hole we can't get out of.


Ijay: Then why is NJ median income rising? Can you prove the trend or is one survey of 25% good enough?

Not saying you’re wrong, but just saying it can’t be denied isn’t saying it’s so.

Strangerdanger Strangerdanger
2 weeks ago

“Then why is NJ median income rising? “

Isn’t the median income rising everywhere? (2020 could have monkeyed with that in some manner though...)

How does NJ compare to the rest of the national average (percentage wise) and how does that income increase compare to the state tax increase year over year?

In other words, NJ income IS growing. Maybe slower than other states though, and much of that increase goes right back to the government anyway...

Mark Mc. Mark Mc.
2 weeks ago

Income is rising because the minimum wage is rising...thats the biggest reason...down south they dont have the $15 minimum wage insanity


$15 insanity?
$30k for a full time job in NJ is insanity?
Someone working hard and trying to climb up the ladder?
Insanity?
Really?


$15 minimum wage is not insanity if you consider the entire cost of living. That's just bubble mentality unless you figured out a way to pay your way on $8,25 an hour.

For reals For reals
2 weeks ago

Marc, think you are right. Not sure what the difference is but NJ may lag.

It median, don’t think raising the minimum matters. That would be mean.

Strangerdanger Strangerdanger
2 weeks ago

By raising the minimum wage..the cost of living also increases...your not actually gaining anything when prices have to rise to pay the higher wages...its better just go to school and get a better job at a higher wage


I agree with bettering one's education for a higher paying job but it will all even out if there are student loans, which are highway robbery. It's difficult to get ahead, never mind make ends meet.

For reals For reals
2 weeks ago

If you choose to work a low skill job it's your own fault if you make 8 bucks an hour... The whole point of those low paying jobs is to help kids earn some cash while in school or maybe a retired person or mom who stays home with the kids wants a part time job. They were never meant to be career positions. No one wants to pay double for a Big Mac or a taco to help pay for $15 minimum wage.... And if you do, well you're special.

NJ is not a good place to live if you work in manufacturing. My job is in PA. And I make more with this company with much better benefits than any place I worked in NJ. So figure that one out if NJ is so wonderful.


Bug, that’s not necessarily true that higher wages cause higher cost of living; it’s a may, not a must.

For reals; depends on the loan and how many are taken. You were right to say IF. Online college dramatically lowers the costs and increases price competition for higher ed for example.

No Mets, it is not always the individuals fault for taking low paying jobs. You stated you took one in NJ, got a better one in PA, yet do you still live in sky high tax NJ? I don’t know many people working in NJ who make less for comparable PA jobs. To quote your idea, it must be your fault ;-). Women get paid less just for lack of a penis. Blacks get paid less just for skin color. If you are born in a depressed area, hard to find good paying jobs. Minimum wage was not invented for kids nor do kids hold the majority of minimum wage jobs. Big Macs are already subsidized by tax dollars and those subsidies don’t go to kids. So, we are already covering MaDonalds minimum wage via food stamps and welfare for the working poor. Of course, no one wants to pay more but maybe we should own up and pay our fair share the right way and not via the back door of welfare payments to minimum wage earners cuz you don’t want to pay the right price for your big mac and and McDonalds more than happy to have taxpayers pick up the slack for them. I don’t think it’s special to pay a fair wage and the fair price it creates.

Strangerdanger Strangerdanger
2 weeks ago

Plain and simple forcing $15 minimum wage does not make any sense at all. Did a cashier’s or stock clerk’s job change at all? Did the skill that’s required change? Nope!

So we are paying more for nothing. The only thing that changed is now your cost of goods and services are going up while the rest of us are lucky to get 1-3% merit increases each year to pay for the increases. Just look at the price of food at the supermarket or the cost of fast food. It’s insane.

Minimum wage jobs are predominately all part-time jobs. If you want to make $100k a year you need to get educated and actually work hard for what you want. It will not be handed to you.


“Your fault...” many older people who face age discrimination are stuck taking minimum wage jobs because companies want to hire younger folks for less. So, “your fault” is a slap in the face for educated people who also fell on hard times maybe before the pandemic.

I think we all forget that we are all on the same page here and want to get paid what we are worth so we can live comfortably.

It’s easy to chastise a minimum wage hike from the bubble of a secure, well-paying job.

For reals For reals
2 weeks ago

Please.
Do we have to revisit the fact that a substandard minimum wage results in increased public spending on the societal safety net (food assistance, rental assistance, health insurance, et al)?
Instead of the Walton family paying for it in salaries, we pay for it in the form of govt. assistance.
Get it?
Guess not.


Stranger

How come everytime they raise the minimum wage it is never enough?.. Because its not fair that people with higher skilled jobs make the same money as low wage jobs. The system adjusts...so $15 sounds great now but won't be in 5 years or so


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