Back To School
Greg A
Bee Combination of remote and in school learning would be my preference. But of course that has to be determined by risk. If we continue just in home learning I believe serious advancements need to be made in the next 8 weeks with how that will be a carried out. Video sessions need to be held at least 3 times a week with attendance taken per class. What we had this past spring was a good stop gap measure but not sustainable for grade advancement or educational achievement. My other fear is there are many kids especially the educationally challenged are going to advance to next grades but be educationally “left behind”.
CraftBeerBob Bug- maybe the parents need to get involved in the
Remote teaching process?
Difficult times require “difficult” measures.
The only options are not -no learning or spread the virus.
Stymie Stymie, do you have any elementary school aged children that had remote learning this spring? And do you have to go to work? It’s hard, if not impossible to do both full time.
3wbdwnj 
Strangerdanger No, I no longer have elementary aged school children, though I still pay for meals for many of them.
I suggest parents in this situation band together, communicate and figure out an effective plan to
see that their child’s educational needs are met.
Looks like driving down to the end of the cul-de-sac after the bus comes and claiming “ mission complete” will prove inadequate, at least in the near term.
Cooperate, Communicate and figure it out.
My biggest concern is (and this will happen). When the children are eating lunch (or the children that don't wear masks) droplets of saliva with circulate through the air. All you need is one child or teacher that has the COVID 19 virus to infect the ENTIRE school and so on and so on. I really don't think anyone is taking this into consideration. Not to mention you can also contact the virus through your eyes. Which means every one should be wearing goggles or face shields. I know that is very important to get the children back into the classrooms. But not until they will be totally safe from the virus. We shouldn't be using our children as guinea pigs!!!!!!!!!!!!
concerned parent The options the school presented to us are unacceptable. Please message mango and the BOE about this. If we stand together hopefully we can get them to consider others.
Njchia @concernedparent: I agree. The rush to open the economy has backfired and the rush to open school must be handled by science v. politics.
I read yesterday on nj.com that Roxbury has a plan to do 2.5 hours of learning in school and the rest at home. I kind of like that plan in terms of starting off very slowly.
I also recognize that not all parents have the time or resources for homeschooling given work and other obligations.
Still health is your wealth.
For reals Folks, again, there is a state plan. I think that Local schools can deploy their plan within the state plan. But I think they have to comply with state plan general recommendations.
If I got that right, then IMO, the first concern is whether our plan complies. Does the lical plan follow the State plan. I am guessing that it probably does and you’re not gonna change much if the State OKs it. The second concern, and probably the greater of the two, is how the local plan is actually implemented. There can be many failures in implementation, many of these will not be seen until actual deployment takes place. So citizens not only need to do work during the planning part, but once the school year begins, They really need to monitor to see that plan is being implemented correctly. That probably takes a very active, onsite, volunteer, parental oversight group.
Good luck. If I had school-age kids, I would homeschool at this point. I just don’t trust the locals to pull this off and the risk is too high; no do-overs.
Here you go, overview and plan ---- parents: educate yourselves!
https://www.nj.gov/governor/news/news/562020/20200626b.shtml
https://www.nj.gov/education/reopening/NJDOETheRoadBack.pdf
Thanks strangerdanger. Too many people don’t bother to get the facts and then the rumor mill works overtime!
I just find it unfortunate that Murphy is letting it up to the locals and just hope that the State plan covers their ineptness. No denigration there, it's just how could any of us expect to be C19 experts plus the differences, like between my views and Calico's are like comparing apples and orangutans and I ain't monkeying around...…
Just don't see how a cafeteria could even come in play.
Then again, who know our situation by September, October. we just came through a week of 1.7 new cases per day, two days ago 8, yesterday 4 ---- so still each day brings a new surprise and even if we get back to 1.7 or lower ----- the next two days can get the dirty dozen, and then the next day …..
Also not sure how Murphey's contact tracing plan will work. It's a TBD. The idea is to reopen but when a case is found, stamp out anything else possible via contact tracing. If that works, I think we can feel safer to be more liberal in our reopening's ---- schools included. I mean if we felt safe that when there's a case, everyone, everything potential is clamped down ---- I would possible even put my kid in school. Long way from that at present though.
SD what works for one district won’t work for another. Believe me when I tell you the districts are doing the best they can to plan. Nothing will be perfect, but kids need to go back to school, even if it’s a blend of online and in-person.
So have any of you actually looked at the BOE plan? Cafeterias aren't part of the equation.
I'm not saying their options are great but there are some plans and the ability to voice your input now.
Cafeterias are part of the plan, seenit. It’s up to each district to do whatever is best for their situation.
H’town parents, go to the district website and complete the survey. There are several options for each school. They might not be the best solutions, but it’s a start.
3wb; of course they are doing their best. And as long as use of the State template means success no matter what idiot tries to use it, they will be fine. But as C19 experts, they are no better than you or I and I wouldn’t trust me to protect your kid.
As far as each district having differences demanding a local solution; I do not know that to be true. What is most certainly true is that C19 is not local, it is a singularly global disease that works just one single way no matter what country, state, county, community, or local school it comes to.
It is singular in purpose and effect. Not sure where a multitude of plans fits in. It certainly has not worked for our 50 States. 50 Solutions has pretty much sucked pond-water there. From the muddy bottom of the pond to be exact.
NJ could move into fifth position today; I would have never in a million years expected to be surpassed, much less three times. I swear I feel like I’m in a Steven King novel, perhaps The Stand.....
3wb,
I think seenit was referring specifically to Hackettstown plans, none of their current options include serving lunch, so cafeterias are not part of the plan for the fall. I am guessing that is why there are no full day options.
BAC I think we have to take a step back and understand that there will be no perfect plan. The schools are in a tough spot here.
Indeed. If parents are concerned they ought to reach out to their district and ask questions once their plan is released.
If parents are concerned , they should reach out and "get together and discuss" the situation and their thoughts.....It used to be called "brainstorming" !
They are your children, take some responsibility vs leaving it up to strangers on a school board .
steven When I was a kid, and the population in "the country" was booming, my friends in public schools had split sessions. It could work now. Half as many kids at any given time. Definitely additional planning for working parents. Longer days for teachers, but that's the real working world.
maja2 I think we need to accept that schools can close at any time should we experience a huge spike like 36 other states.
We have to be flexible and most important, safe, especially this weekend.
maja2
Very good point. When I was in 9th-10th grade in Warminster, PA they were building a new High School, as the suburbs of Philly were expanding in the early 70's. At first they made the Jr. High 3 grades and High School 3 grades (9th grade). The next year all 4 grades were at the old High School, but 11th and 12th had morning classes, then the school was "handed over" to the 9th and 10th grades for afternoons. The year after that, all my classmates from 9th-12th grades were at the new High School, while I was at a new High School down in NC.
If you logically group the children in class ranges, the same thing could be done. Many teachers teach only a limited range of grades of students I believe, so for the most part you'd also have about half of the teachers there as well. The limiting factor is of course class size & spacing per room, as it may take two rooms for spacing as well as inflow and outflow of students. One class could take two classrooms and one of those classrooms may have to be a "virtual room", where the teacher in the next room with one cam and monitor setup would be in communication with the next room of their students as well or the teacher would migrate to the other classroom about halfway through the class period, making it the "real" class and the other one the "virtual one".
It could be done, but then again splitting each grade in half and doing the same type of split sessions as you seem to be recommending could work too. I don't remember us being shortchanged in our education, but I think during the "split session" year we also moved to a MWF and TR type schedule to keep class lengths the same, though we had less days on subject and the school year may have been expanded a bit. It makes me curious now, so I may have to see what info I still have on what was done over 45 years ago, lol.
Another thing that needs to be worked out on High School level for the most part is band and athletics programs where all 4 grades may be participating, that is, if the seasons are still in place.
Phil D. I agree, it seems you could "downsize" on-site to partial student range, perhaps half class on size/time for a half-class, half-day sort of attendance to avoid cafeteria, but be able to broadcast to full size so off-site and on-site could share the same curriculum. Would call for longer days as mid-day travel time would need to be accounted for to retain 100% attendance; but if hard to manage timing, I guess you could record for off-site viewing.
No matter what, it seems that partial attendance will be required at any given time.
If everyone is required to wear a mask to go back to school then the school needs to ensure that everyone is wearing a see through one bc my children are hard of hearing and depend on lip reading to communicate and understand. my youngest will have to be medically exempt from wearing A mask since she is prone to pediatric migraines that are sometimes heat induced and when she feels her breathing is inhibited by wearing a mask. Then she will probably have to wear a sign all day alerting everyone to her medically exempt status so that people don’t talk about her not wearing one. Then when they are in class will it be worth it or will most of their days consist of them listening to teachers yell at kids for what they are or aren’t doing with their masks and not get any actual learning
H-Town Mama The school is required by law to provide your child with an interpreter if she needs one.
As I understand the options, your child will only be seeing one teacher(or 2 if there is a special education teacher in the room) for the whole day, most days, and if they do see more than just their classroom teacher, it will be very limited, i am sure they will be notified about your child's exemption.
Most pediatricians are recommending kids go back to in person education.
Family Plaza even posted on their Facebook page about it
Nosila Pediatricians May recommend it now but with more things reopening and people traveling from out of state there may be a second spike which would drastically change current recommendations.
Based on weekend activities it appears we are in this for the long haul. I would not be surprised if in the next two weeks all plans that are being made will be revisited and revised. Rinse repeat all summer long. They will not know what to do. Nor will they do right by everyone. Corporations are drawing the line in the sand and saying work from home until there is a vaccine or herd immunity. Buckle up.
Welcome to living in a third world country. For the first time the US is not in control and not number one. Buckle up indeed.
Steve Doctors recommending the kids be in school for socialization development makes sense. Doctors recommending that kids return to school at this point in time, may not make sense.
I find it ironic that folks accept a universal recommendation to go back to school but feel the solution should be local. If a state plan for protecting America has produced these national results, do you really feel local will be better?
Steve notes that we are a C19 Third World country, proof of this is that doctors without borders is now staying within its own borders. We have the myth that young people cannot are affected at a rate that is tolerable. Overcrowded hospitals in the south and southwest tell us that isn’t quite true. Hospitals are filled, median age is down, there may be less death, but a great death is coming for people that haven’t even seen a full life.
We cannot depend on the current federal government to help us if we get in trouble. Currently they are pulling seven federal testing centers out of Texas, they are rudderless.
IMO, continue reopening, be careful, very careful in your planning, and most important, create a citizens on-site oversight monitoring group that is on-premises as the re-opening happens spotting problems before they become tragedies. Good luck folks, like I said, if I had kids in school, I would be homeschooling this year. If I thought socialization was so important, I would create a small group of safe kids to be homeschooled as a group. I do not think I would depend on the local community school board to keep my children safe. Not this year. We can’t even keep the adults safe. Yet.
3wbdwnj And happiest girl~
My children do not have an iep nor do they need one. I have never requested any CST eval nor has the school and we don’t plan on it. One is in HS and the other is going into middle school. They don’t need a translator either and wouldn’t know what to do with one if they had one. My concern has to do with the masks and hearing impaired children in addition to how it will affect my child physically. I am also concerned with the level of actual learning and education they will receive both in school (if masks are required) and out of school (if virtual learning is the plan)
Right now as it stands, children are not being affected by CV19 at the rate of immunocompromised and elderly people so if the numbers of those individuals is significantly lower than healthy children and adults, why are we changing everything around? The ones who can be affected by the virus in the worst way should be the ones to do it differently. JMO... as harsh as it might sound
"If everyone is required to wear a mask to go back to school then the school needs to ensure that everyone is wearing a see through one bc my children are hard of hearing and depend on lip reading to communicate and understand"
What does a see through mask look like? i have never seen one. unless you mean a face shield? which is not the same as a mask.
Jim L The numbers seem to back you up H-T Mama, however...….what we don't know can fill volumes.
Younger people seem to have lower infection rate and death rate, however, we really don't know. For example, Italy's median age of infection in ten years higher than the US, why? Just an older country perhaps? In Texas, the rates of 20-year olds are astronomical, like 40% and 50% of all hospitalizations in some counties, and 20% in Austin and Dallas. Have they become more susceptible? Have older folks been hiding? Doesn't really matte? Their hospitals are filled just like ours were except it's so much younger there. And when we bring the little ones into play, do we expect the median age to continue to fall as it is in this second coming of the first outbreak? We expect the death rate to be lower because of age and medical advancements ---- but there will be death. How much can we accept for our youngest folks who haven't even seen life.
We didn't learn from China/South Korea, we didn't learn from the EU, we didn't learn from NY/NJ/CT/MA; why do you rush to hold your kids up as the next strawman based on what you think we know while discounting all that we know we don't know? I say: be careful out there, death does not have a do-over.
Point is HTM, we think, we don't know.
Like, how are the younger folk at being carriers? Could they not catch it but capable of bringing it home? Again, we don't know. What we think we know is a smaller volume that what we know we don't know.
My point stands, for me. Reopen, plan well, but have a backup parental monitoring system to watch the implementation and sound the alarm IF we learn something new we didn't know OR see something in the implementation that doesn't seem Kosher. Do not leave your children's well being to local administrator working within a state plan and, really, just don't have the skin in the game that you do.
Or, better yet, now that I think about it, let the other states, communities, be the pioneers. Why do you have to let your kids be the tip of the spear. Do you really think one more semester will set them back for life? Let other places take the arrows and you can settle the issue after they field-test the plan.
Has anyone thought about the teachers with small children? How are teachers suppose to teach our kids and their own kids at the same time? I cannot imagine that could be easy. What about the parents who work essential jobs? Who will stay home with their children? We don't have a lot of cases in our area so I would think it would be okay to go back to school. I honestly feel horrible for the young children and the students with special needs.
I empathize with all sides here. Teachers with small children, parents with essential jobs, economic strife, etc. But we have to look at science. We don't have a lot in our area because--I hope--for the most part we have been vigilant and compliant. As more things reopen and people get a taste of freedom, I fear that we will lapse.
The problem with the "not a lot of cases in this area" is that it could change at anytime. For example, we don't know if youre neighbor attended a house party five towns away. Who was at the wedding in Myrtle Beach and came back this weekend only to find themselves amid an identified Covid cluster, etc.
Jim L: There are quite a few options for face masks that have clear plastic on them:
https://www.theclearmask.com/product
https://www.bridgesfordeafandhh.org/masks-for-deaf-hard-of-hearing
Nancy 
dcp “Doctors recommending that kids return to school at this point in time, may not make sense.“
They went to school a lot longer than me and have a lot more experience so I’m going to trust them at this time
Hailey Oh my goodness. Children need to get back to school. We all need to get back to being people not scared. It’s a virus we’ve had many. Teach the kids to eat right and take responsibility for their own immunity. If compromised take precautions. Come on people live life being happy
Inthegarden Would we prefer to be like Florida where Governor Distantis ordered all schools K-12 will reopen in August. Or give 653 municipalities choice and guidelines on how to reopen. Clearly a moral dilemma.
Important to consider if you choose to “ roll the dice”:
1)- even if not fatal, Covid-19 can cause serious, long lasting damage to lungs.
2)-make sure you have platinum level Health Care coverage.
Florida cases skyrocketing
Arizona cases skyrocketing
Americans not allowed to travel to Europe.
Australia locking down for next 6 weeks.
If you think you can rely on govt guidance to protect you from this, I have a bridge to sell you...
@stynie: Well said.
Unfortunately but inevitably, NJ is seeing a slight uptick as well.
Nosila: very good point IMO, made me re-read the report and indeed --- they say the risk of not going to school is worse than the risk of c19. However....."These recommendations are provided acknowledging that our understanding of the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic is changing rapidly." They caveat almost every statement just like I did with a "may" or "if can be done safely," all big cya's. I still hold to my statement and also agree that the AAPediatricians are well educated and have issued a strong statement for on-site reopening for the Fall, given their plan recommendations are followed and things don't change. Do our plans follow theirs? I'm pretty sure the state plans do, I am pretty sure we follow the state, but parents need to validate. Here's an NPR overview and the AAP statement itself. https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/06/29/884638999/u-s-pediatricians-call-for-in-person-school-this-fall
My other point was that we know less than we don't know. IMO, this is still relevant and here, I disagree the AAP. They seem 95% sure kids aren't a major risk, are not spreaders, but leave the cya door open. Yesterday we thought it's mostly older, at risk people who are the major risk. In the second coming, the median age is way lower and the older folks are not filling the hospitals. But the hospitals are still filled. IOW, the major risk is now younger folks. While it's easy to say: the older folks are staying home, the new facts say that the freaking hospitals are overflowing, the folks are in their 20's and 30's; the infection rate is over 3.0 in many places. 10 out of 12 hospitals in the Rio Grande valley are diverting patients; it's that bad. And these patients are much younger than NJ and NY saw. So.....where is that line, how young do we go? NJ just stopped the reopening as our infection rate went from .7 to 1.03. Our highest rate causing the complete shutdown was over 5. This second coming in the South is totally out of control and very much younger ---- the "experts" said that wouldn't happen. But it is happening and while death rates will be lower, there will be significant death for people barely having lived life.
My other point was: given where we are, what we went through, what we know and don't know, we do know our local school managers don't know didley about c-19 or any pandemic. We are relying that the State recommendations are perfect, follow the AAP recommendations, and that the locals can't screw it up. I say it's your kids, get involved. Even if the AAP says GO, do you really want to leave it up to the locals to implement a perfect plan, perfectly, with perfect metrics, monitoring, and controls? I suggested that parents may want to do their own oversight, on premise, since their are no do-overs.
Lastly, I suggested that, hey, what's the worst that waiting one more semester will do? Why not let the other districts test it out and see how it flies. The AAP spells gloom and doom for remote learning, especially in socialization development. IF that was really true, then home schoolers would have been doomed for years. These guys aren't Gods, and they aren't parents of your kids.
So, I still conclude that I would wait one more semester or reopen, but if you do reopen, please check your plan against the state's, against the AAP's, and look for metrics, monitoring and controls. An example would be Murphy stopping the reopening because the infection rate went over 1.0 (even though our cases are dropping state-wide while increasing in the South). He had the plan, the metric, the monitoring, and he took control. That's a good plan.
Good luck and please ---- check those plans and create citizen oversight.
SD if you think School Officials are not experts on Covid-19 strategies, how on earth do you think parents will be?
Unless a parent an epidemiologist, I don’t see how you can just have joe average parents judging the preparations schools are making with local Boards of Health.
I wish I could use my applause emoji strangerdanger!
While my daughter attends school in another district, I totally support how you feel.
I also think that the Sunbelt is inundated with more infected younger folks because of the states that rapidly reopened restaurants, bars and beaches, where people in their 20s-30s tend to flock for entertainment. Then there's the message of mask mandates or compliance, etc.
The virus was also reported to have mutated to infect at a faster rate so we are learning something new everyday.
So, yeah, I"m willing to wait it out, too. I'm also nervous with the reopening of arcades, bowling alleys, water parks and casinos. Then again nobody is forcing me to go. But how am I supposed to tell if person A. supposedly six-feet away from me at Target went to a packed house party and has it. They might not even know due to the asymptomatic demographic.
What a mess.
Be mindful. Peaceful. And put your mask to the task.
Consigliere - it is as bad if it was in your family. Thank God you are safe- many are not and grieving. You have no idea.
Many are grieving over losing businesses that support their families. Many are grieving from the 500% increase in suicides. Many are grieving from the death of family members from a whole host of reasons. It’s life. And when you look at the stats, it’s actually a no-brainer.
I’m just asking for the right to live my life the way our constitution promises. The founding fathers were pretty smart dudes. They certainly remembered the Black Death which killed 1/3 of Europe’s population and didn’t find it necessary to include a provision about suspending our God-given rights for pandemics.
80,000 died in 2018 from the flu and we have a vaccine for that. For those who forwent the vaccine we have treatments for the flu. And still, 80,000 died.
If you’re scared, please stay home. The rest of us want to STOP grieving.
How about all of you try to be part of school administration with almost zero guidance from the state. Make a decision on your own....they say. But people can't eat inside a restaurant with far fewer patrons than a school. You go try to do the job and make that decision. Then come back here and tell me how it went.....
Let’s keep in mind that there are many forms of grief and grieving that are taking place during this pandemic and every one of them is being exposed during this crisis. Please be kind. You never know what someone is going through on the inside. Peace and Love.
Re: "The rest of us want to STOP grieving."
We all want this to stop Consigliere, Craft Beer - we all never wanted it to start.
Grief has no boundaries, no limits and no time constraints. As this crisis continues to rise, best to be prudent and safe/alive. This illness is a horror and is not yet dismissed. Spreading it through ignoring the rise and not wearing masks with an air-borne illness is not only poison to the body but our community as well. Peace , love and caring to our great Hackettstown family. I pray you and yours will remain free of this on-going global health emergency.
So how much are the school taxes going to go down since the students will be taught at home?
thecoach Greg A, I never once said I’m against masks or distancing. What I AM against is the government mandating the closure of businesses because they’re deemed “non essential.” The owner of the businesses, their employees and patrons would disagree. At some point, we have to be treated as adult citizens of a free country who are able to make decisions for our families. “I’m from the government and I’m here to help” is basically a meme at this point.
"If you’re scared, please stay home. The rest of us want to STOP grieving."
Well if someone is on Medicare, who should pay for the hospitalization if someone gets infected? How about a 50/50 split-the govt pays 400k, you pay 400k.
Sounds about fair.
dodgebaal Any input/preferences on the 3 options for HHS?. The survey is due today and my brain hurts when I try to decipher the descriptions.
the hipstr I went with option 1 for HHS. All the options come with more questions than can be answered. I know my child wants to go back, how safe it will be and what the administration is willing to sweep under a rug just to save face is yet to be seen.
By the way, where's my property tax refund for all the school tax that wasn't and probably won't be needed.
its funny how people are trying to justify sending back kids back to schools when there isn't any medication or vaccine. Those pediatricians recommending kids go back to schools should be liable to lawsuits if kids get killed or their organs get irreparably damaged cuz of back to in person schools. This virus isn't flu or anything like that. It irreparably damages multiple organs even if you survive the virus. Its wrong to assume kids will survived this virus unscathed
TheYale Somehow, always it comes down to this.
It's not Apple pie and Chevrolet anymore. It's Litigation and Toyota.
" liable to lawsuits "
dodgebaaall Recommendations are just that. In the end, the decision is up to the parents and what we feel is best for our children.
For reals,
I agree with you. Its the decisions of the parents if they want to send their kids back to school or not.
Helpful informations have been available about covid19 & kids - since the outbreak here in the US & now the resurgence in Southern states. Parents should make their own decisions
As I agree it’s up to the parents to send back or not I do feel that presents a question? If the choice is made that school is open and parents don’t send their child, then is it the parents obligation to get their child educated at home by an accredited individual or organization? I am thinking it will be but I really don’t know.
I also have a question - if cluster covid breaks out in schools that have opened for in person classes, what is the backup plan? Go back to square one - with e-learnings? 11K kids got infected in Florida in the covid resurgence wave. Parents need to decide if they want to send their kids back to classes.
More than 11,000 children test positive for coronavirus in Florida
https://www.wtxl.com/news/coronavirus/more-than-11-000-children-test-positive-for-coronavirus-in-florida
Is it me or is it a bit insane that the Dept of Educ is threatening to withhold funding to districts that don’t go back to full time in person classrooms?
The politicians are the last people to be making decisions on when to get back to the classroom.
Friendly Mcface I strongly suggest that all parents have a Plan A and a Plan B. If Plan A is to send the child to school, then fine. But do make sure that you insist that he or she wears a mask throughout the day, washes hands or uses sanitizer, and keeps the appropriate distance. While I'm sure the school will say it, it will be most effective if home and school work together to make that message clear. Protect them and others as much as possible.
For Plan B I would say, particularly to working parents, have a pre-arranged agreement with a friend, neighbor, relative, or parent of a classmate that if/when school closes or your child's class must stay home and quarantine, you have someone to care for your child or fill in at your job. Maybe that could mean swapping days or certain hours. Have a plan, and remember that you might not get much notice. I just think we all need to be as prepared as we can be. I think we're in for a long and bumpy ride, unfortunately.
DD If it's going to spread to the town kids, it will happen before school even starts! All over town I'm seeing groups of kids, from small groups to groups of 10 or more, going about their summer. No masks, no social distancing! A few days ago there was a group playing full court basketball at Riverfront Park. At least in school, they will wear masks and will social distance.
Whatever they decide, I’m going to try my darnedest to obtain a partial tax voucher to hire a certified teacher to come to my house and teach my kid.
The way schools freak out over using one or two more snow days than allotted doesn’t jive with this cavalier attitude about only providing half of an education in the fall.
If cluster outbreak happens in schools, there is no timeline that it will happen before schools start or after schools start. Cuz asymptomatic kids or asymptomatic staffs returning back to schools for in person classes may get it from a family member & bring it to schools. That's how Texas, Oregon,North Carolina have had so many daycare outbreaks, its just a gamble everyday for every school district if they are lucky enough as days go on.
Parents need to mentally prepare for any eventuality & make necessary arrangements for any scenario before sending their kids back to schools or daycares
https://abc13.com/more-than-300-kids-in-texas-daycares-caught-covid-19-coronavirus-news-and/6291701/
https://people.com/health/n-c-reports-covid-19-clusters-at-daycares-as-parents-and-providers-weigh-options-amid-pandemic/?amp=true
TheYale, CDC came out just recently and said they were wrong and this cannot be spread by asymptomatic carriers.
I think it's best to assume that this disease will spread through asymptomatic carriers because then administration is cramping down on the CDC to change it's "science!" Meanwhile, we are learning more about the virus everyday. Nothing is set in stone.
bflat4u Should be interesting to see what happens when flu starts again. So many parents send their kids to school when they are sick. It’s just a matter of time before a covid kid comes to school and infects many and then the many bring it home.
I'm a retired teacher with many years of experience with children in both public and private schools. I am considering the idea of tutoring or home schooling kiddos for the upcoming school year. I'd love to hear people's thoughts. Thanks!
Grandee What do they expect working parents to do?
Sending them to daycare defeats the whole purpose
Grandee --- you might want to:
1. check to see how many kids in NJ before it's "daycare," think it's 6.
2. find one parent who knows 4 other parents with same-age kids, to create "pretty damned safe" homeschooling.
3. let the parents pick a home, rotate, whatever.
4. create monitoring system so you all know when it's time to stop. Guess you-all with have to trust each other.
Make more money, have kids gain some sort of social structure. Save parents some money over single child, single tutor. Could be fun, certainly a saintly service.
Good luck, have to imagine you will have many takers (thus, the suggestion).
Marcy Consigliere,
Not quite. The WHO (not CDC from what I can find) reported that asymptomatic patients rarely spread the disease. They have since walked that back saying there is some confusion in the terminology between asymptomatic and presymptomatic.
https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/09/who-comments-asymptomatic-spread-covid-19/
In short, what they are finding is that people that are truly asymptomatic (never have any symptoms) don't seem to be spreading the disease - or at least at very low rates, but presymptomatic people (not YET showing signs) are very definitely spreading the virus and are quite possibly the most contagious at that stage. The problem is you don't know if you are asymptomatic or presymptomatic until it is too late.
jnnjr Marcy, not even sure what your comment means.
This is not your typical situation.
In the summer there are summer camps and daycare options which working parents pay for. However, if school isn’t safe what makes you think camps and daycare are.
Would you like all dual income families go down to one? That would be fabulous for the economy.
My only point was that perhaps a small group of self-monitoring kids and families would like improve the socialization aspects of homeschooling. Cool idea but be sure to stay under the bureaucratic radar for any sort of formal regulated business requiring insurance, approvals, yadda yadda.
Hey look.
Sending the kids back this fall is a bad, bad idea.
Why not shut it down and wait for a vaccine- sometime next year? - then go six days a week- eliminate most Holidays and summer vacation ( or
greatly reduce it) and protect the children?
Get caught up that way? ( or trimesters?)
Creative parents can use the “down time” to their children’s advantage.
If they become infected this fall ( asymptomatic) pass it on, not good. If they get it, become I’ll and recover, there’s no guarantee that they will not suffer lifelong lung and kidney damage.
It’s already the middle of July.
School is 7 weeks away?
Virus is spiraling out of control in many parts of the country- may happen again here.
Rushing to open schools,at this point, is just plain whack.
No, or very poor guidance from Govt.
Remember in November.
Thank you Stymie.
We can spar over what the CDC or WHO said, the irresponsible partisanship over wearing a mask, but in the end the virus doesn't give two craps.
This is truly survival of the fittest and the sanest.
Stymie, that would NEVER fly with the teachers' unions. School for 12 months a year with no breaks and only one day off per week. Nice idea, but never going to happen.
Tracy Strangerdanger...Thank you so much for your reply and suggestions. I so appreciate your time and thoughts. I have been speaking with some people and their perspective tells me that homeschooling by a professional may be the way to go. I’m going to do more research and make myself available as an option for parents and their kiddos.
As an educator, parent, and grandparent, the thought of placing anyone I know and/or love in a potentially unhealthful environment Is NEVER a choice I would make.
One thing ( good ), is that generally, it is a cleaner environment in not just schools, but in all aspects of our lives; such as stores, restaurants, and etc. etc.
Now, I would hopefully like to hear who is performing the sanitizing of the schools?
Is it just a janitor, with a spray bottle going through the motions? ... Or better yet, a professional company that would do a thorough sanitizing of the common area's.
Then, the school areas can be followed up by the local Janitorial / maintenance personnel.
Compare it to your vehicle. You take it for a detail cleaning, and after that, you just hose it off as a follow up measure, to keep it clean.
Even in the home. I've never seen all the cleaning supplies, and actions of the family members; faithfully using and cleaning above and beyond the prior pandemic period.
I would think, that as this period of a couple months during Cvid 19, the cleaning and sanitation that was done, surely had an impact on the spread of other known germs, such as the common cold, or the basic flue.
Embryodad There's no reason to hurry up and send the kids back to school. It's too many people in close quarters giving this virus a chance to re-spread and infect the kids, families, teachers, etc. I don't care if the kids aren't as affected - when they loose a parent to this let's see how affected they are. This isn't chicken pox, step throat, etc. it's something totally different for everyone who catches it. I'm not willing to roll the dice on how my body or my family's immune systems respond. And even though NJ is doing better, these selfish other states who can't get their numbers under control put us all back at risk. We look terrible compared to every other nation on earth who was able to do the right thing while we are still taking about doing the right thing in most areas of the country. Hurry up and send the kids back is like a science experiment I don't want to be part of. I'm at least thankful for Gov. Murphy's common sense. Stay well.
America is the only country in the world where masks or not in covid19 Era has become symbol of partisan politics rather than common sense & this is blocking us to bring the number down. Economy & loss of job aren't important to me as much as the lives,health & well being of my family. Covid irreparably damages organs irrespective of age & may leave behind life long health issues for kids and adults. Unless there's an effective vaccine, I won't buy in-person classes
A pandemic becoming a political firestorm is criminal. Using kids and schooling is just the tip of the iceberg.
Washington township schools have announced a partial schedule, each student takes turns 2-3 days a week combination of home school and actually going to school. Day camps are already trying to fill the void of the home school days trying to find a way to offer there services. This is ass backwards, they can't go to school, but they can go to camps and daycares? For a hefty price tag as well.
Forcefed4door CORONAVIRUSPublished July 10, 2020 Last Update 20 hrs ago
Missouri summer camp closes after 82 kids, staffers infected with coronavirus: reports
I think it becomes more apparent every day as the case count explodes and the death count rises that younger people are not immune. While we are getting better at surviving the hospital, more younger people dead will signal the personal and economic tragedy of not wearing masks, social distancing, and washing hands. The economy will suffer much worse from opening too soon than being cautious and prudent about reopening. You can’t wish it away, pretend it’s not there, or expect it to magically disappear. There is no proof that going back to school will work and lots of proof that moving too fast is a tragedy.
The American Academy of Pediatricians is adding a boatload of cautions to their recommendations to reopen. Their eyes have seen the light.
To put limits on the virus to age groups is a dangerous mindset. We have to assume that NO BODY is immune and do our very best to prevent the spread the simplest act of wearing a mask, distancing and using basic hygiene often such as washing our hands and sanitizing.
Unfortunately, we have to rely on our own intuition and the basic golden rule for leadership in the absence of a national model.
Returning to school or not may look different for each and everyone of us who have school-aged children. We shouldn't rush to judge each other as we don't know individual circumstances. Instead of judging we should offer to help. And again, stay vigilant in preventing the spread.
Put your mask to the task: It's not rocket science but it is science! And the neighborly thing to do.
For reals,
Yes, I agree, everyone has different circumstances regarding schools, jobs & personal finance. But we have failed as a country to contain, forget flattening the curve. With many people in every state refusing to wear masks & social distance, I doubt we will climb down from being number 1 country in covid19 deaths & cases. Even countries like China & india with more population than us don't have as many deaths & cases than us. Its not just an "American thing" - individual circumstances, finances & job. Every person on the planet is facing the same problems. Italians, Spaniards, germans & Nordic country are doing much much better as country cuz their people gave collective efforts. In America, we don't give collective efforts(forget the unintelligent & controversy mongering leader in the WH). I don't expect much from the leadership but its shocking many people refuses to use their common sense citing constitutional rights to not wear masks or social distance. We are far behind other countries & we have a long way to go.
The Yale:
I am in complete 100 percent agreement with you. It's embarrassing how many people fall for the "hoax" or conspiracy theories behind Covid. The people who drank bleach, hand sanitizer? It's embarrassing and terrifying to live in such an ignorant, ill-advised and selfish nation during this time.
So, yes, we have failed as a nation miserably. I don't want to get too political on here because I learned early on that I am well, hold different views than the demographic here.
So, again, I am agreeing with you. There is absolutely no unity and every day there is more polarization over wearing masks and more cases on the rise.
As I sit here and get great anxiety about having to decide about school in the fall. I have come to the conclusion that the decision will be made for us because based on this weeks numbers I can’t see anything being open in fall. We are heading for a shut down again. It’s not if it’s when. So yes I will have a plan ready either way and now is the time to think about it, but I don’t see it happening.
For reals,
I don't want to be political about covid19 either cuz its a matter of life & death. Every person on this planet has a God gifted brain of their own to think, reason & rationalise. We have seen covid19 in Italy, Spain & NYC but we refuse to use our brain & reason unlike rest of the world & many Americans still aren't using their own God gifted brain but are taking decisions based on politics & politicians. And that's the sad part of corona in America. Now, i am convinced America is the only country in the world with highest number of stupid people
Two questions:
1. Are janitors hazmat people?
2. What kind of "chemicals" are used for our children and teachers to ingest?
We want our children to be back to socialize. Won't the fact that there will not be socializing and visually all the insanity have a psychological long term effect? Or am I thinking too much?
Again, I submit my idea.
Keep it shut down until there’s a vaccine.
Then go to Trimesters until caught up.
If the union doesn’t cooperate- bust the union and hire new teachers that understand we all must sacrifice in this once in a lifetime (so far) situation.
Keep paying them now as per contract WHILE SHUT DOWN.
We cannot go back in time to correct the errors that have caused us to arrive where we are now.
Opening schools= prolonging and exacerbating our present situation.
JMHO
The Yale:
I agree one hundred percent. COVID has brought to the surface even more of the dormant stupidity that exists among us. And this is the worst kind of stupidity because it leads to fatalities due to the spread of Covid. All because this kind of stupid is acting like a bunch of defiant toddlers in their refusal to wear masks. And even defiant toddlers over the age of two wear masks!
Stymie: I also agree one hundred percent.
Greg: Yes, there may be long-term psychological effects but we need to be alive in order to deal with them. And that means keeping the schools shuttered if necessary.
Open the schools. Kids will be fine.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#AgeAndSex
callitlikeIseeit "Opening schools= prolonging and exacerbating our present situation."
Not getting to herd immunity= prolonging and exacerbating our present situation.
callitlikeIseeit: Would you use your kids to get herd immunity? Would you put your family at risk to get herd immunity? Are you living in a bubble that secures you from COVID that we need to know about?
Also they say that herd immunity might be impossible, the antibodies disappeared after a few weeks in infected people.
Yesimpc Herd immunity is BS crap as far as covid19 is concerned. The covid19 antibodies of recovered patients fade away in 2-3 months & their chances of being reinfected is as much as same as everyone else.
Lets see if herd immunity works out by sending all politicians & pro "in person class" people to comfined classrooms of schools.
People are getting reinfected after recovery.
Herd immunity for covid19 nothing but mass suicide - 70% of our population forced to either die or live with long term damaged organs.
https://www.webmd.com/lung/coronavirus-dental-care
Do parents have the option, like in Fairfax, to keep their children home and work remotely?
For High School, there may be a form. For others, it’s best to notify to avoid that truancy knock at your door. Should have documented plan how you are achieving educational equivalency, but pretty sure it’s not a requirement.
Plenty of web sites for support.
Bigger question might be: what are schools doing to help you homeschool. Not sure they’ve crossed that Rubicon and certainly you might not to get x’d out from remote just because you opt out of onsite.
I’m a frequent lurker and don’t chime in too often. In reading the comments I think of another factor. If we only have antibodies for a short period of time and that is from actually getting the virus what do you think a vaccine will do? Provide us with a few weeks? I believe this is a truly scary virus with the potential complications but I also believe that the “almighty” vaccine may not be much help in this case. I do not believe we can stay closeted in our homes forever. Wear a mask, wash your hands, but life must go on.
Dachsundlover If the schools open in the fall, I wonder how they will deal with employees who refuse to wear a mask. Fire them I guess?
Dachsundlover,
Antibodies aren't the only factor in making a vaccine for covid19. T-Cells & B-Cells play big roles in making vaccines. Like Covid, in SARS patients the antibodies fade away soon & in HIV the virus attacked the T-Cell itself. Time is limited for scientists to test all factors & to test the efficacies of the vaccines developed across the world. So scientists are worried about the long term effectives & roles of these T & B cells when vaccines are administered on patients cuz the pharmaceutical corporates conducting the clinical trials are tight lipped about how their drugs will exactly work & since all vaccinces are on clinical trial phase now, nobody knows how this vaccine will work after a long period of time.
This articles by Swedish scientists help me understand about some things about covid & vaccines. The scientists aren't optimistic & apprehensive on things that they still need to be studied cuz they believe there's a lot to be studied before the vaccines are manufactured
https://www.wired.com/story/covid-19-immunity-may-rely-on-a-microscopic-helper-t-cells/
Dachsundlover,
Life will go on but life wouldn't be the same as pre-covid19. FDA has put a threshold of 55% effecacies for covid19 vaccines to be approved for administration.
I personally believe that's its wrong to push "life must go on" as usual with schools opening when there's a surge happening & when there isn't a strict federal or state laws for mandatory mask in public places in every states - nearly half of the population are non complaint with mask or any form of coverings unlike anywhere in the world.
I think its appropriate to open when the surge is down like in Nordic countries & germany & when there's a FDA approved vaccine available
I really want teachers(especially those above 50+ years of age)to be extra cautious & think it through before going back to schools. 3 teachers in Arizona infected, 1 dead during summer school(they wore masks in school & sanitise themselves frequently when preparing virtual class materials - no kids were even physically present due to e-learning but the teachers ended up infected ).
Frankly, when you weigh what we know against what we don’t, IMO, take another semester off, let others forge the way. Probably will be safe is really not compelling against the risk, especially of the unknown.
What have we got to lose?
What have we got to gain?
After seeing what colleges are already doing (remote learning for the Fall semester), I have a feeing we are going to get to the 11th hour and the decision will change to all remote learning.
The Yale,
By no means did I say life must go on as usual I did however say life must go on with masks, etc. As far as waiting on the vaccine I feel it will take a very long time to develop one that isn’t an inactivated virus type vaccine. COVID like the flu is an RNA virus and has the potential to mutate. We have had the flu vaccine out for many years and have had some years where the efficacy is good and others where it is poorly matched. My point is that if we don’t have the magic bullet for the flu after all of these years and my faith that we can develop a magic bullet for COVID in a year to 2 years is low. So just my feelings but we must find a way to continue life with extra protocols in place.
What’s great meadows game plan? Especially with no Super in place, releasing of board president and probably no elementary school principal in place. Talk about way behind-who’s making the call for our kids? Why haven’t we got calls and emails? Who’s in charge-our kids go back in less 6 weeks. What’s our game plan GM?
Future worry As if school is all that important in the first place?
Like it or not, and argue as you will do- the vast majority of people live their lives in a very basic rudimentary way and education level.
Much of what they do and use in a true day to day living is much more tied to experiences learned through doing, through living.
Most people don't work in the field they 'majored' in, much of what they spent money on was never used, much forgotten.
The entire schooling is soo important narrative is much more rooted in the emotion and desire to have ones children be better off, less struggle, more successful.
This is intentionally incubated and grown for decades by the massive web of people that profit greatly by most people literally 'buying into it'.
Problem is- the cold hard truth is those that have both a desire and work ethic, and a decent mind can and will achieve despite schooling- not because of it.
For what most people do in life- if you parred down their role, their skill, their achievements and interactions- put em though 8th grade more to cover the basics of math, science, history, but also basic societal interactions...and then give them a 1 year focused specialty in a job or trade. Done.
Josh That is an extremely narrow minded vision of education.
With your approach, where do the engineers, doctors, or scientists come from?
The_Bishop I can't imagine a whole country with a maximum education level of 8 grade & 1 or 2 years focused on specialty in job or trade. Give basic high school
level education to kids & let them decide what they want to do with their lives - go for college or join workforce
Josh for me it’s not so much about the “education” it’s about the time being missed interacting with the human race. The damage of isolationism for an extended period of time and the lack of interaction in a non video manner is going to create long standing damage. We are humans after all and good bad or indifferent humans need human interaction. Some may not buy into this but I do and I am not just concerned about this for our children. I am concerned for everyone.
Craftbeerbob:
I am concerned as well about isolationism but I’m more concerned over the spread of covid and deaths. To gather kids prematurely to prevent long term damage is moot if people get sick and worst case scenario die.
Thankfully NJ and NY have residents who care and oblige, which reduced rates and deaths.
I worry about people coming from states where the virus is out of control and the people and leaders shrug their shoulders and ignore what’s going on.
Mental health of everyone is something we have to fight together. But before we do that, we must beat covid together. Either there won't be any "mental health" left if we end up dead cuz of covid19 or the rest of our lives we will live with "mental health" cuz of life long damage left behind by covid.
These are the countries which have opened in person classes. They are the only country to flatten the curve & maintain the flatten curve.
https://www.indy100.com/article/coronavirus-lockdown-schools-social-distancing-9486451
And we are top number 1 country in cases & deaths with a 2nd wave surge.
Scientist in the UK are still studying the long term effects of covid in recovered patients
Three people are still suffering Covid-19 symptoms MONTHS later https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8498689/Four-people-reveal-experiencing-Covid-19-MONTHS-sick.html?ito=native_share_article-top
And the Steven King novel continues. Next chapter: “I’m taking the kids to Disney-world.”
Hey Josh.
I think you’d find that many of the critics of your opinion are the same people that have no problem with extracurricular activities being eliminated- sports, cheering as well as the more cultural activities- music, band, art...
Not that important.
I think they just want the kids off of their hands for a couple of hours a day so they can cover the $300 cable bill, the $300 cell bill and the two car $800 lease payment.
Quality? Eh...
Just take ‘em...
The Spartans used to teach their children to swim by rowing out to the deep end and throwing them into the water...
Will Americans do the same regarding classroom learning?
Y Premature opening of everything has been the problem from the get go. Even with the economy: there will be no economy to run if people are affected and die from the virus.
Are our students and teachers going to be guinea pigs this fall. Hoping that that nothing will happen and everybody will be just fine?
Read this.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jul/13/america-schools-coronavirus-covid-19-children
ead All valid points, my point was that I am more concerned about mental health then the actual book education. In regards to the argument of sending back or not sending back it’s almost as clear as day to me that the government will set transmission rates as the guidelines for whether in person schooling will take place as NY did today. Below 5% seems to be the number that NY will have some form of in session learning. Above 9% in session will be shut down. So with all that said it appears the choice to have a spread and transmission in the fall has been deemed ok. At that point you have to decide is it ok for you. For many I don’t think it is.
CBB - you may have terms wrong. Rt < 1.0 is the standard. Rt = 5 was NJ all time high. We are .9 today I believe.
To me, for NJ, it’s the unknown that makes question the rush to onsite. Let others go first in my mantra.
Other places beyond the Northeast, wtf are they smoking. Many places already backing off.
Ok at least other school districts are talking ideas. Not saying they are correct but at least the wheel is somewhat turning. My town I don’t even know who’s in charge and 3 of my friends just yanked kids out of Great Meadows. I feel like I’m on a ship with no captain heading for the rocks. Very bad to have nothing in order during a time period like this.
Vaccine or not, the virus isn't going to disappear. They're already talking about different versions and strings being discovered. It will be just like the flue with a different vaccine every year while never being 100% immune. I guess this will be the new lifestyle for years to come. The creative mask business will flourish, at least it will create a few more manufacturing jobs :)
Just because you haven't heard anything doesn't mean great meadows doesn't have a plan. They sent the two surveys out already. They are probably finalizing some things and we should hear about it soon. They did give choices in the first survey. Anyway according to the state we don't need to know until the end of the month.
Hockey mom I feel bad for any kids that will become sick, possibly permanently damaged, some will die- because of choices beyond their control.
Politics, teachers unions, money all play into this more than what is good for the kids.
Sad.
Stay home people. Everywhere. Everyone.
Hockey Mom,
Who is your board president?
Who is your Super?
Who are the principals at the schools?
I’ve been following those disastrous board meetings or lack of where they disappear for hours. Speaking with other moms, I know 3 first hand that yanked their kids because of this. Love to hear your answers about this group that leading us and making recessions for our kids. Great survey no one to supervise it. We had to bring some guy out of retirement to babysit us cause we can’t make a decision or get a vote right numerous times. Who is going to lead this town and our children. Please answer me that now. At least Hackettstown who I’m not fond of mango but they have all administrators in place and already interviewed and picked. Where are we?
CraftBeerBob,
If a county's cases reach below 5% for a month or two at the same time controling the movement of people into it - most possibly check & test people entering, then of course I will send my kids
SD you are correct. I used wrong term for NY. They are using infection rate of below 5% as the baseline not Transmission rate or RT.
Ah; I believe you mean Positive Test Rates which is metric I never quite understood the value of. I mean, unless you test everyone, or random sample, what is the value of rate? Lots of silly people not infected came in for a free test for a low score? Or the high side, not enough tests so only the really sick people come in? Since those tested are not a random sample, just never have been sure of the value of this metric.
They do like the metric though. And every time it comes in low, I say “wow, why are all those healthy people getting tested or what do the negatives have and why aren’t they telling us that?” I mean at 5%, I want to know how to avoud the other 95% that have something that makes them want to be tested.
So now our children have to worry in the schools about drills- breathing, talking, touching, and space?
I’d love to hear people’s thoughts on the letter that came out today from the schools, particularly the virtual learning option.
A letter came via email today, at least from the high school. It asks parents to choose one of 3 options:
Alternating day, virtual learning or home school.
They're not giving you individual options; they're giving collective options and if the one that gets chosen is not viable for you... tough luck.
ianimal I was very pleased with their options. My child will be doing virtual learning for the time being. If you can't open certain businesses or hold large gatherings indoors, they have no right to expect children to crowd into these buildings.
Actually ianimal, they ARE giving you 3 options. Every parent needs to respond which option they are choosing for their child.
SueR This 3 options are being given out in most states - Texas, California & Midwestern states. Its an easy option - people who believe in herd immunity can semd their kids to in class schools & do sports & people who don't want to sacrifice their kids for economic experiments can choose option 2 or 3. Win - win situation for everyone
And only the teachers & staffs for in person classes are heroes who will be putting their lives on line.
Amazon delaying return to work for their office workers until January 8th, but we want to send our kids back to school in Sept.
If there's one good thing to come of all this it will be to expose that we're using a late 19th century model of educating our kids in a 21st century environment. There's no reason that a combination of distance learning, in person classroom learning and self directed home study can't be used not only through the duration of this crisis but also going forward.
Chris K Yes Chris, but the problem is schools are still building the plane as they fly it. There is no easy answer to any of this.
3wbdwnj - The best way to solve the problem would be to get the state out of the education business.State bureaucracies are incredibly inefficient and because schools are essentially government enforced monopolies, they have little incentive to adopt new methods/technologies. Also because the price to the consumer is hidden by our convoluted property tax structure there is no market pressure/market incentive to change.
Chris K: which state? Fed, state, local? Seems they all have a hand, but the most ridiculous part is putting it under local control. Worse than letting states try to control C19. At least bump it up to county control if not higher.....imo. Then again, frankly, wth do I know. The one thing I always mention here when we are slamming our schools is, whatever NJ does, however NJ does it, whatever it costs in NJ (we ain't the most expensive): NJ SCHOOLS RULE: https://www.forbes.com/sites/reneemorad/2018/07/31/states-with-the-best-public-school-systems/#19cf5c123897 So we should change only with great reason, firm metrics, monitoring and controls. Would suggest we use a world model for best-in-class since most of the US should be looking to us.
+1 Chris on C19 providing a lightbulb on a better way, and perhaps cheaper for all you skinflints out there. +1 Nykin: why not. I mean it only makes sense to have older teachers and those with underlying conditions have priority for remote teaching --- c19 statistical risk-wise that is. Makes sense to me.
iJay " I mean it only makes sense to have older teachers and those with underlying conditions have priority for remote teaching "
Except for two things.
1. The older generation is not as adept at doing it.
2. It's discrimination against the younger teachers.
dodgebaal,
If younger & healthy teachers volunteer or the administration can decide, the older teachers adapted to e-learning during first outbreak - so no big deal in conducting online classroom - it can be taught in a minute or too..
Thats the problem...it can be taught in a minute or 2 but it is almost impossible to see if the students are learning remotely...you can't see faces or judge reactions to material...to see if it is sinking in
Synchronous learning using a platform like Meets can help a bit by allowing teachers and students to see one another in real time.
Bug3,
I was talking about the classroom session on zoom - how to use video calling app can be taught in a minute or two to older teachers. You put in my mouth - teachers teach kids in a minute or 2. If you opt e-learning, there will be examples & explanations given in the materials sent. If you don't like it, nobody is stopping you to send your kids to "in person classes" aka "herd immunity experiment"
It's hard to make this decision for many reasons. One thing that would be helpful just in general is info regarding current infections and who is getting infected? Hackettstown residents can get information from nixle alerts and checking the Warren County health department pages, etc. While that information is current and easy to obtain, it still does not give the whole picture. We are also responsible for obtaining that information ourselves. It is not given to us.
For example, I saw an article where the mayor of Westfield noted the ages of infections and probable cause of infection, youth at parties.
Obviously, HIPAA rules dictate some lack of information. I don't mean we should have names, addresses. I wonder why we can't even get basic info such as age and where they became infected? We are four months into this, still have infections. It would be nice to get generic info such as current infections are from out of state traveling, essential workers, gatherings, etc.
In Mount Olive there are now kids cropping up with infections after their prom and partying last week. I doubt highly these kids went knowing they were ill and or asymptomatic carriers.
Asymptomatic carriers will be going to these schools. Teachers and students. The screening tents are only useful for children showing symptoms. Which brings to light, why would you go to school sick? It happens and quite a bit, unfortunately. We are still in that sinking ship where we have to assume we all have it, unless we are tested and you are only negative at the time of the test Not helpful long term.
Not an easy choice for anyone involved. We also have many parents whom have made this political and their children and those around them will have to suffer those consequences. It's every man for himself.
Prom? Where was there a “prom”
last weekend in New Jersey? Or was this just some irresponsible parent holding a social gathering in their back yard for their children.
Lwinters Please lookup for kids in other states which are epicenters.
Nearly a third of Florida children taking a coronavirus test are positive — and no one knows why
https://www.insider.com/third-of-florida-children-tested-for-covid-19-tested-positive-2020-7
Prom on the MO football field. Saturday July 11. It's on Mayor Greenbaum's Facebook on that date if you want to look for it. Irresponsible partying afterwards...
summerrain1 TheYale: One in five people in Florida are testing positive. In regards to the children it might be other family members or just being out and about in restaurants, beaches, etc. IMO Florida never actually closed. And their governor is turning a blind eye.
How will it affect students and faculty when the first teacher in their school dies from this? The first parent of a student who brought it home? The first kid?
Not to be alarmist, but I to read the articles about 1/3 of children tested had the virus and that they were mostly asymptomatic. It gave me chills.
The sad about this virus is that it is so new. We have never seen a virus that causes this many symptoms. I mean the symptoms are crazy and all over the board. The long term effects are totally unknown. Whether we will be able to maintain immunity is also unknown. Remember this is a coronavirus.. Just like the common cold, and there is no cure for the common cold.
The scary about this virus and the current level of research is that kids have been left out of the picture. Kids don't get sick so they don't get looked at. My fear is that the kids will become the typhoid Marys of this pandemic. It's won't their fault that they are resilient carriers.. But spread it nonetheless they will. Again this is just my fear, because of all the unknowns.
I know America wants to America, but for just this once I wish people will just use common sense. Stay home as much as possible and wear a mask when you leave the house.
I know kids should be in school, but out of an abundance of caution, for now, school at home until the scientists figure this out.
Ser positivo Will you get notified if a student in your kids class tests positive? Will your child and thecteacherscthen have to quarantine?
How do you get a substitute for substitute pay in a quarantine situation - are they told they are at risk?
Once a cluster outbreaks happen in your kid's school, must the "in-person class" show go on(?) or school go on lockdown(?) or wait for someone in the school to die to finally lockdown(?)or is it like "no matter what(even if someone from the school dies)...the show must go on..."?... just asking... if any of those "in person classes" advocates could shed some lights on this
https://www.nj.com/news/2020/07/coronavirus-update-nj-in-holding-pattern-schools-dont-have-enough-planning-time-what-you-need-to-know-july-18-2020.html
Summer off as usual it appears...
Apparently south korea did a study of kids and transmission of the virus. It involved 65000 people for the data set and Korea was doing full on contact tracing as they do.
The results kids ten and under didn't transmit it much.. The older kids transmitted just as much as adults.
I would link the article but it is from the new York times, so there is a pay wall. I'm sure by tomorrow all the free news feeds will be posting it.
Final thoughts from the article? most kids are asymptomatic and therefore typhoid marys.. It's not their fault. Kids are resilient most kids with a cold or the flu just go and go until it becomes to much for them. Adults have learned when illness is coming we can see the signs, because we learned it as kids.
So remote learning? It's gonna be a thing. Economically for parents? Geez, what a cluster#$%@
For all those saying what about the teachers.
Not to be a jerk but how is it any different than other essential workers that had to work during all this?
Under US Gov guidelines, teachers aren't Essential Workers & its stupid to think so & take them for granted. If states are going to be consider them as Essential Workers, then they will be entitled to "hazard pay" as its provided for Essential service workers.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essential_services
The Yale- Did McDonald’s associates get hazard pay?
I wish they had to option as well but people shouldn’t be upset they have to return over others
Parents are the teachers now, let's get real; especially for the young ones. How are they going to even try to plan to return when almost every teacher is off for at least another 4 weeks...
Nosilla,
Let me clarify, restaurant workers(restaurants are opened as per opening planned phases)aren't Essential workers but grocery stores workers. First, you are mixing up Essential & Non-essential workers are. I clearly stated the list of essential workers. Second, just cuz you feel teachers are essential workers don't make them as essential workers. Third, people aren't upset with teachers returning to work. Be realistic, we are the "king of covid deaths & cases". if we had flatten the curve & maintain that curve,I wouldn't mind teachers returning to some sort of in person classes like in norway or other European countries where they have consistently maintained a flattened curve & keep infection to a minimum level for a long time.
Even countries with ranks 2nd ,3rd , 4th in the world's covid19 tally list have all their SCHOOLS CLOSED NOW and aren't opening anytime soon, we are top of the list and we are racing to open in person classes. The world is laughing at us, at our stupidity or maybe they are just shocked.
Now, please answers & shed us some light on some realistic scenarios - what are your expectations(these are just general questions and not directed to you but I just want to know your opinions)
1) if cluster outbreak happens in our schools, shutdown schools & continue with all e-learning classes or just ignore the cluster & continue with in-person classes?
2) if someone from our schools(God forbids) dies of covid19, should the school still continue in person classes cuz such situations may arise considering our covid19 curve climbing up with 70K+ infections daily.
3) if teachers are required to be quarantined, then do you hire substitute at short notice?
4) if a child gets infected in kid's class, will you or some parents still insist on in-person classes?
The Yale, unless you are asking rhetorical questions, your child’s/children’s school district should be able to answer those questions.
Doesn't the state mandate openings? The district is not alone in these scenarios- it is a global issue. The leadership within our area is superb. The issue is with general leadership and denial within the US. I will not get into that here.
However, the facts are 85 babies under the age of one tested positive in Michigan.
Many people that have been now known to "recover" are discovering blood issues,
lung issues and inflammatory disease along with the fact that it returns even with limited immunity.
Another semester to keep all safe, flatten the curve and
I think keeping informed is important. Following the science on this and how the global pandemic is being handled by other countries may help Nosilla and others understand a bit better of the concerns for our children. Reading multiple sources of information, unbiased information to determine facts from fiction.
I don't understand why if even there is a hint of error we would put our kids in harms way. Why? Will a few more months have that much of a detrimental effect on them or us? Isn't walking into a school, getting tested, seeing masks on everyone, not able to touch or be next to someone, not eating or sitting by someone just scary for kids? That is psychologically and socially "good" for them?
https://abc7chicago.com/covid-baby-cases-texas-babies-coronvirus-coronavirus/6323595/
TheYale-
You must not have school aged children because of of their plans have answered all your above questions.
Every teacher I’ve talked to actually wants to go back.
RSV and the flu has killed more children and we don’t close down schools for that.
I think schools did a really good job giving several options that YOU can choose based on what works for YOU.
There is not going to be a perfect option that makes every single person happy?
What would your plan be?
Comparing covid to the flu at this point is moot. We have to focus on the virus at hand, the virus with no vaccine, the virus with a rapid contagion factor, the virus which causes long-term damage to survivors. So, let’s focus on the pandemic of this century, right now. The virus which produced a childish response among those who refuse to wear a mask to keep themselves and others safe including our children.
Teachers do want to get back into the classroom with our children. The biggest issue is the safety of everyone in the school building. Teachers were thrown into virtual teaching with no time to prepare or do any research for how to successfully teach virtually. Please stop assuming that teachers have summers off. I know teachers who have taken courses online to learn how to be more effective in virtual teaching. One of my friends has already spent $500+ on supplies she would need in order to teach her students more effectively. Every teacher I have ever known either works another job over the summer and/or is preparing for the next school year.
If you cannot even sit inside restaurants how can you sit in schools for hours? Nurses cannot even control lice when there are outbreaks in schools but now a deadly virus?
Greg A.
Your words are conflicting.
You say 85 babies in Michigan tested positive and the article you posted says Texas. I assume a typo on your part but if we all read posts like this as fact it is easy to see why people question all posts/sources.
There are so many opinions on this forum. Our kids aren't going to learn enough being home remote learning. So then what happens the 2nd half of the year or beginning of next year when they can't keep up with their subjects, workload, etc. because nothing was retained. Being present in school with teachers, their whiteboard, projects, assignments, etc. Students can wear a mask and go more than two 4 hour days out of a week. I understand the virus is still here and not making light of it. But what will they learn home? They are going to be very behind. They aren't going to get their full workload like being in school.
Students and teachers need to stay healthy and then we tackle making up for lost classroom time.
Of course remote learning isn’t ideal but it beats covid exposure setting us back even more.
Murphy announces all remote option will in fact be an option.
N.J. to allow all-remote learning option for students when schools reopen in the fall, Murphy says https://tinyurl.com/yxqw5xtk
DCP- I assume you’ve taught your children to open a can, make their beds, clean their rooms, swim, ride a bicycle, good manners, and If older, how to drive.
Maybe you can take a whirl at math , English comp and western civ.—- I’m sure you’ll do fine.
I return, you’ll receive personal gratification and a much higher probability of a healthy child.
Don’t allow yourself and your family to be victimized by poor government planning.
The remote learning does not affect teachers - they still would be required to go in and sit for hours w masks on and no clear ventilation.
Please look at the top 10 world's covid19 ranking countries. Authoritarian country Russia has reopened 20% of their schools, the rest of their schools are closed & Brazil president is trying to reopen but the states and local govts are fighting in court. And the rest of countries are pretty much closed for schools.
Stymie, should DCP and others in the same situation quit their full-time jobs so that they can devote their day to homeschooling as you suggest? When the bank forecloses on their homes because homeschooling doesn't pay very well, will you then recommend resources for them to provide homeless-schooling for their children?
Yes Iman. When it comes to family, you move heaven, earth, and even hell itself to keep them safe and to secure their future. I am sure you already do.
Somewhere we got the notion that remote learning is bad, kids must be in school. Where? Did they study c19 remote learning? Doubtful in this administration and time period. Do home schoolers turn out bad? No. Turns out they are saying it’s bad for k-8. Got your answer then for 9-12 who are the more vulnerable supposedly. That’s 1/3 we can take off the petri dish.
Where did they learn remote learning for k-8 is bad? Same place they learned how to reopen the South? Why do we believe the same morons who fostered that disaster will get reopening schools right?
What extra resources are we providing? Ppe? Extra, well trained, personnel for disinfecting? How do we test students to retain safe schools? Fingers in the wind? How long to get results? Hours, days, or weeks? You don’t know and yet you say we must go. You are very trusting with your kids, or desperate.
If you have to send your kid in to school so you can get to work, I am sorry. If you send them in because you think it’s right, God bless you for being willing to test the waters. If you expect to use remote learning without the entire family putting in extra effort, you are a fool.
I am glad there is choice. I would move heaven and earth to keep my family, safe, sound, and with a secure future, including education.
Remote learning and homeschooling are two different animals, Strangerdanger.
Sitting them in front of a computer to do the school-issued curriculum and lesson plans while continuing to work at your job remotely from home is much different than having to drop everything, develop your own curriculum and lesson plans and provide one-on-one instruction. That level of involvement would necessitate quitting your job, assuming that your job needs to be done during normal business hours.
ianimal,
I respect your concern & you must have your own set of priorities. The rest of the world is still remote learning - same situations like here, people are homeschooling their kids & they have to pay their rents, mortgages too. But they are united in their own countries to beat the virus, bring down their numbers together as they struggle. And we fight over the virus, masks & now schools - forget about bringing down the number first.
Jobs, employment,mortgages, rents and loans aren't an exclusive American thing but are global issues faced by everyone on the planet.
NJ has given all options to parents : in person, remote or homeschooling. You have ignore the "in person" option.
But if any outbreak in schools may bring in "only remote learning" options & we should all be prepared for that.
"Remote learning and homeschooling are two different animals" which is why I called it out as homeschooling and noted parents will need to put in extra effort, IMO. Different animals perhaps, but still both animals and not apples n oranges. My point, at the end was, ---- if parents want remote learning to work -- there will be extra effort. It's a pandemic, not everything can be free and easy.
"Sitting them in front of a computer to do the school-issued curriculum and lesson plans while continuing to work at your job remotely from home is much different than having to drop everything, develop your own curriculum and lesson plans and provide one-on-one instruction. That level of involvement would necessitate quitting your job, assuming that your job needs to be done during normal business hours" See above comment re extra work. Do you really think remote learning is so bad that you will totally need to roll your own curriculum/lesson plans/ and a full school day of one-on-one instruction? That's a pretty low bar you set for remote learning curriculums, lesson plans, and instruction. Like zero value? Don't think so. And bunk to the "necessitates quitting your job." I could work twelve hours in the factory and still pull this off for my kids. Good parents are already putting in extra time to augment onsite schooling.
It's not like we are my parents facing The Greatest Generation facing those hardships; it's just a pandemic, so stiff upper lip, and put that nose to the grindstone.
Like I said, if you have to send your kid in, I am sorry for your dilemma. If you want to send your kid in, well God bless you for leading the charge into the unknown lead by the same morons who gave us the Southern reopening. Because Iman, you don't have a clue what you are getting into. Where are the extra resources? None of us know. Like the South, it's just a paper exercise, zero experience but let's send the nation's kids into the fray. But we do know what just happened in the South when they reopened on a wing, a prayer, and a blessing by the Godless.
Sorry, no more for this soldier of the pandemic. It's time to stand up and say: "enough."
I applaud Murphy for his decision to continue remote learning and still suggest that parents realize it's not a panacea; there is much more work to be done to make it work for your kids.
+1 The Yale. Grateful for options but prioritizing health and safety above all else. That’s what matters now. Without health we have nothing. The states that are out of control now are proof and didn’t have to get to that point had we been united in fighting this together.
I haven't ignored anything, Yale. I provided a specific response to a specific post. Anything more than that is an incorrect inference on your part.
Strangerdanger, I neither "need" nor "want" to send my kids to school during a pandemic, nor will I. I work with my fingers, so I'm more than happy to keep working from home and my employer has no issue with it either, presumably as long as the billable hours keep getting invoiced and paid.
My response to Stymie's flippant suggestion that everyone should be able to homeschool their kids because they were able to teach them how to open a can and make their bed was sympathetic to those out there who CAN'T work from home... and has absolutely nothing to do with my personal situation.
Ignorance is bliss. + Yale- you are correct- Online curriculum is provided by the district with teachers and grading through the curriculum guides. Home Schooling is totally different - not district curriculum, but state mandates followed and followed through by parent/ care-givers. The incorrect inferences Yale were not of previous writing as it was quite clear.
Ianimal- I KNOW-you will denegrate the source.
But it does take a village to raise a child.
Nothing stopping parents from forming groups and participating from rotating home classroom experiences.
Create a plan- you take Monday, I’ll take ....
It’s not rocket science.
If your children are not worthy of that community cooperation,planning and commitment then what does that say?
Parenting commitment does not begin and end by dropping them off and picking up ones children from the end of the cul-de-sac.
( not to mention infecting faculty, family and extended family)
ah the ole, you can't tell me what it tastes like unless you have your finger's in the soup. if he says no, what's next after that one. we all pay taxes to support education buddy.....
Hopefully we are all, whether with kids or not, just trying to float some ideas to help parents make great choices. Let's chillax on the dog whistles, rhetoric, and step back from any attacks.
IMO, this is tough stuff, it is being politicized from many angles, and if any parent gets a better idea from this discussion and it helps a kids --- then this is one of the better ones that HL can entertain.
I fault no one for sending kids in on-site. Not my choice, but I can understand some reasons for this, especially economic. I support remote but fully understand that without parental support and extra effort, it fails. And home schooling, while perhaps the best, has the highest cost in extra time and money. I get it. I think.
How are "rotating home classroom experiences" any less likely to spread the virus than the typical classroom experience?
"Parenting commitment does not begin and end by dropping them off and picking up ones children from the end of the cul-de-sac."
I think this gets to the crux of your delusion. you actually believe this to be true of the majority of parents today.
So sorry ianimal, do not put words in my mouth, or become the Amazing Kreskin- reading my thoughts.
Do not believe the cul-de- sac observation is the norm, but do see plenty of it.
Childhood obesity approaching 30%
And type 2 diabetes approaching 25%
Guess that’s for another thread
( but related)
The only opinions that matter right now are the parents that have kids going to elementary, middle, high school, or college. The rest of you can hope for the best.
3wbdwnj,
Wow, and you concluded we don't have kids going to school...just like that? Hope is something that you don't understand ...people can't hope the virus to disappear one day after school starts
Not YOU, Yale. This decision is very difficult for parents. If you are not a parent, educator, or somehow involved with a school, your opinion is irrelevant here. None of us want these choices.
Exactly Ian. I can tell you that we (my company) are flexible now and all that matters is that work gets done. This may mean nights and weekends for those with school aged children.
The virus will still be here. I think each family will do what works best for their children and their work, etc. Let's hope for a vaccine. Our kids need a better remote learning education than this past round if they are going to be home 3 out of 5 days a week. It was awful. I doubt kids remember what they worked on. Businesses need to stay open. At least the ones that are still open. Very sad for the ones that have closed or will close.
So far so good on AstraZeneca-Oxford vaccine early human trials. Will expand to US soon. Still early yet but could be millions available by eoy.
3wbdwnj- why, bless your heart.
Would you also prohibit me from voting in elections for the Bd of Ed, for school budgets?
I believe the words for only accepting ideas and information from select sources, a predefined subset of the whole based on a predefined criteria, while disposing of ideas and information from those outside your source segregation would be: narrow mindedness; the fact that you determine idea worthiness as “skin in the game” notwithstanding. Did you check whether your pediatrician has children? Your auto mechanic your model? Can Catholics get Church marriage or family counseling? Hmmmm. Things to think about to open your mind and expand your universe of open thinking. (Of course, consider the source. who am I to say ;-).
The decision on whether or not to send your children back to school during a pandemic has nothing to do with a school board election. Vote away, Stymie.
Greg, if you are in your phone, the link is on their webpage, near the bottom. Teachers go back 8/26 and students go back 9/1.
Bac is that the Hackettstown district that is going back on 9/1? All I found on the Hackettstown website is the calendar for 2019-2020.
https://www.hackettstown.org/apps/pages/index.jsp?uREC_ID=1543399&type=d&pREC_ID=1706094
Scroll down for 2020-21 calendar
What I don’t understand is how we justify MLB players getting tested multiple times before being cleared to play while the CDC says this in regards to those coming back to school.
https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2020/07/should-kids-and-teachers-get-covid-19-tests-before-schools-reopen-heres-what-education-officials-say.html
Regrandom Parents have to consider more than that it's hours a day in close proximity. It's also the bathrooms, the school buses, recess, gym class, equipment touching like computers they share, and so on. It's not a just sitting in a room with a mask on thing. People act like their child will grow up being stupid because they aren't in a classroom setting for a few months. To me, nothing more important than children and the teachers living. You don't know who's passing on what to whom. Why take that chance?
By the time they get the test result, the semester will be over ;-(.
Fact is we don’t have the resources, tools, or training to pull this off. We really don’t have a clue how susceptible or transmittable these kids are. Is the staff trained to disinfect properly? What are the metrics for re-closing?
9-12 - it’s obvious, kids more susceptible and learning not that impaired. I just don’t know why this isn’t the only choice for them so we can use the extra space to further spread out the others.
K-8 - if remote, parents need to pitch in, a lot.
Balancing risk/reward, if I could economically, I would remote. What’s a semester more to discover potential issues, give some more room to those that just have to go, and let the system beta test itself. I would team with a few select other parents to minimize risk, shard the load, and provide some socialization.
IMO.
+1dogdayafternoon: it seems that we are more worried about the long-term mental health effects—which are valid concerns—over the short-term and possibly deadly effects of covid in a close classroom environment.
There’s just too much at stake. And this is not discounting the inconvenience but pandemics are rarely convenient.
This script was given to me by a friend. Maybe some will like to do this.
Call Governor Murphy at 609-296-6000
The script is as follows:
Hi my name is ______ I live in ______ I would like to leave a message for Governor Murphy. Keep school buildings closed this September. It is not safe for staff and students. There is still to much unknown about this virus, and we should not be putting students, teachers and staff in potentially dangerous conditions. Thank you.
Call every day until the Governor decides to make all schools go remote in the fall.
Be brief. Be respectful, Be clear
I’m new here and just putting some information out to all in case anyone is interested.
JJL 'Dropped' because we have a better handle on it and people for the most part...are wearing masks, but throw all the kids back in school, factor in teachers, and staff and that will not last.
Bug: depends. Dropped from nj/ny/ma yes. But the South had been rising for a week and it will continue. We’re at 1,000 a day. Median age of death will drop too; only question is how low will it go. That answer will begin to unfold any day now. And when we put the little ones back in the game, does “we think” they are less prone really worth a one semester risk? Wouldn’t be for me if I could home school or remote with a lot of parental support. Unnecessary risk is just that. Plus, going remote kust makes it safer for on-sites.
+1DogDayAfternoon. We can't just go back to normal, or a modified normal because the rates dropped. Just look at more than half the country that reopened with a modified normal.
We worked too hard and sacrificed too much to risk sacrificing children, teachers and their families and friends. The way I see it. If one person in the school gets it, we are all kind of at risk.
I am so grateful that New Jerseyans for the most part have been compliant with wearing masks.
DogDayAfternoon computers aren't shared in 7th and 8th. Each have their own Chromebook in my son's school. But I understand what you're saying. Right now for my son's school it's possible two 4 hour sessions a week in school. That's it. Remote learning for all the other days.
dcp, I get it, but laptops aren't the only thing that others touch that kids will touch and let's face it - kids aren't exactly aware (or at times even care - look at what's happening in Middletown with that teen party and the outbreak). I feel for staff and teachers, as well. Kids are on buses, might share a cell phone, lunchroom time, and on and on - let alone the buses and how that would work. Scares me - If they've been letting prisoners out all over because it's not safe even with masks on - why send kids that are close together all day and just kids being kids? ;)
CDC guidelines on schools reopening.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/cdc-guidelines-school-reopening-puts-heavy-emphasis-having-students-back-n1234770
Calico696 Look at the science thus far....
Very few children worldwide have contracted COVID 19. And no deaths.
No worldwide instances of any children spreAding the disease to teachers in countries which have reopened their schools.
Virus numbers in NJ the last few weeks support re opening unless things change by Sept.
We don’t know enough about the virus’s effects on children and I don’t want to find out by putting them in a Petri dish. The virus is infected younger demographics now so we have to keep that in mind.
Guidelines are fine for adults - These are children and children aren't sitting there reading these. We're talking about a lot of little kids, not just teens, which aren't even listening if you check the news and Middletown and the huge party that started a surge.
This virus is new. There's only new data and we can't go by other countries. To me that is like the old 'If your kids jumped off a bridge would you do it too?'. They can have success, hide actual data, and so on. If they're actually doing better, there are so many factors why, not just one thing or another. Maybe they don't live in close quarters and a million other things. We have to base things on logic and science and not just throw our arms up saying it's over or just that you 'want' kids back to school. Everyone 'wants' school to start - in person - It's just if it SHOULD. There's no 100% on anything.
Timmy, it is rare but there have been child deaths from COVID-19 or the Kawasaki-like illness that is linked. In addition, it just seems like there is so much potential long-term or life-long problems that can occur, such as lung and heart damage, for survivors. We can't keep our children locked up forever, but more time is needed for a clearer understanding of this virus. IMO anyway.
Mel81 My hunch is that the kids will be the typhoid Marys in all this. So far we have kept them separate, and while they don't get sick overall, it is shown that they do spread it. Every other country that has opened schools has the virus under control, as in they can do do contract tracing and have rapid testing. We don't have any of this. While I don't have a child in school, I do see the possible impact and probable spread of the virus. The kids need to be in school, but truth be told if school is canceled for a year, we have a better chance of stamping it out. Just like people wearing masks reduces risk and helps stamp out the virus, so will keeping kids out of school. Sadly we have to use all the tools we can to get ahead of this. Most of the tools are not awesome, but these are difficult times.
Timmy- your representations of the facts are grossly inaccurate.
Science contradicts nearly every point you made.
Republican Party, with all of their resources, cancelled their convention.
But Great Meadows can swing it?
Does not compute.
Apparently - They do get ill "overall"...Mine will stay the heck home!
https://www.newschannel5.com/news/newschannel-5-investigates/7-572-school-age-children-diagnosed-with-covid-19-in-tennessee-new-data-shows?fbclid=IwAR2KaUdUw5slcrCcQFLTlpwdB9ggKemkm1V0c2vXyegNslc-fSHYDXcLQM4
Is it at all possible that the reason for the increase of covid in other states and the decrease of covid in our state is that as soon as “School” was over people in NJ took off for many of those “ other” states For vacations and what not? Then started mass infecting people (since we were #2 For a long time) and that’s why we have the lowest number? Because many are not actually “in state”
No, not possible?
The increase in other states is due to them opening too early and not mandating masks!
Makes sense to me H-t Mama. Infected people were warmly welcomed into mass spreading reopening happenings abandoning all lessons learned from Asia, Europe, NY, NJ, and MA, while the state said damn the people, fire those economic cannons and the scientists/doctors yelled Bwhaaaat!
Next as the hospitals fill with the young, we tout a declining death toll claiming 1,000 dead each and every day a victory never noting that the median age keeps falling and falling while the death toll, albeit smaller, keeps rising and rising. Twice Vietnam and counting.
Next we bring the little ones on line after strong arming the CDC into a masterful spin job. Best luck all.
The update from NJ Gov says parents will have the option of all remote learning. Thank goodness.
The State is mandating that all local Boards of Ed provide all-remote learning for those who want it. Not that they provide actual guidance on HOW that is to be effected... or how it's going to be paid for... that's pretty much left to the locals. And they have about a MONTH to figure it all out...
https://www.nj.com/education/2020/07/what-remote-learning-will-look-like-for-nj-kids-who-dont-go-back-to-class-as-state-reveals-new-guidelines.html
As towns begin to put their plans out I can’t help but wonder....what will happen in schools where the teachers are moving around between cohorts of kids? If one person in a class comes down with the virus it has been said that whole group will have to quarantine. Teachers mixing with all of the groups like in a middle school or high school setting would seem to affect all of the different cohorts.
What about teachers coming from out of state ? Many travel from Pa. - A few from NY.
I have spent a lifetime managing scientists and engineers and have gotten pretty good at recognizing spin and spinning a few myself. Most scientists really can’t lie. It’s one reason they chose a career using facts to discover the truth. If you read the CDC guidelines that Calico posted no way would you reopen schools. The spin is in but they have left the truth too. Like, only open with the right transmission rates. Sounds good, but what’s that? They didn’t say. In NJ it’s an Rt of 1.0 and, right now, closing indoor dining under ANY circumstances. But schools and buses OK? What’s Rt in Fl; 5.0? Another lynchpin of the guidelines is all this stuff how kids don’t get it, don’t give it, and if they do get it, it’s from parents. I thought they didn’t get it so why the cover? And not to worry, because if they do get what they can’t get, and don’t give, they don’t get very sick like their parents, teachers, janitors. All of this is based on EARLY reports. That’s right folks, the CDC says send em in, it’s OK and safe based on EARLY reports. And one from Vietnam. Folks, I cannot make this stuff up, it’s the guideline support, and it’s pure spin. Truthful spin. So, based on early reports, let’s pick some safe transmission rates, hatch a million different plans in each school district to send our nations lids back to school. Oh yeah, not extra budget either IMO this will not go well. Even CDC scientists run beta tests for something of this magnitude
I'm not sure if this has come across this but as mentioned above if one kid or teacher gets sick, then the whole class has to quarantine. Now obviously kids will also be in close contact with their parents. Are those parents also asked to do the 2 week quarantine? I guess the question can be asked in reverse for if a coworker gets sick and their children. Whose going to monitor that? So many variables leaning to remote only. They should be working on programs to help parents who have to work now instead of putting it off or just leaving it to the wayside.
The CDC was pressured to change their guidelines to put the green light on reopening. Their original guidelines were “rejected” by the White House. So, I do not trust anything out of the CDC now.
https://www.nj.com/education/2020/07/its-unsafe-to-reopen-schools-dont-do-it-says-nj-union-representing-12k-teachers.html
Isn’t there a union to protect our teachers?
The union told their teachers to express their concerns with their local districts.
I went back to the CDC study and while you can say, "it's out of context," these are some of the words....spin....whatever you want to call it:
From the "critical for administrator's section" of the report: "Make decisions that take into account the level of community transmission." No duh, but what' s the recommended metric? I can not find it. NJ has the metric for a Rt of 1.0 for reopening. That's why indoor dining is still closed, because it spiked above 1 just days before the reopening.
These are the current rates by state; twelve states in blue, note who's in red. FYI --- NJ's Rt was .84 yesterday. How many "red" states are still planning to send kids to school? https://www.statista.com/statistics/1119412/covid-19-transmission-rate-us-by-state/
Since the NJ rates here and from the State database differ, plus since TX/AZ is under 1.0 which I find hard to believe, consider this directional, but hopefully you will get the idea. Also, case seem to lag Rt. as in this would indicate TX and AZ is about to reduce cases which seems to be true.
No where in this section nor the entire guidelines is there is no mention of testing as critical. Must be in another document but not in the guidelines as critical for administrators or a key consideration for reopening.
From the key considerations section: "COVID-19 transmission rates in the immediate community and in the communities in which students, teachers, and staff live." Rt seems important enough to mention multiple times. Rt recommended metrics, nada.
And mandatory testing: nada.
More coming, and hate to say it ---- but the spin is about to get deeper.
@Steve. I totally agree. Under any other "circumstances" we would be leading the world. Sure there would still be the freedom fighters who refuse to wear masks but I'm not sure to this extent.
It blow my mind how quickly this country has spiraled out of control. So divided that common sense is being ignored. The news doesn't even report on what's going on in the rest of the world because it's so pathetic here.
Thanks For Reals for the spacer, here's more from the key considerations section:
"Early reports suggest children are less likely to get COVID-19 than adults, and when they do get COVID-19, they generally have a less serious illness" "Early reports suggest the number of COVID-19 cases among children may vary by age and other factors." And so, older kids are at greater risk but everyone into the pool. "There are currently a higher proportion of COVID-19 cases among Hispanic/Latino children as compared to non-Hispanic white children." Now, I'm not an Early Report expert, but doesn't this ring of 'gee, poor people who MUST be in closer quarters due to economics get it more.' Sound familiar to adults?
"Data on SARS-CoV-2 transmission among children are limited. Evidence from other countries suggests that the majority of children with COVID-19 were infected by a family member." Bwhatt? Other countries. Kids who don't get it, get it, it's just from families...Give and take from families...well, send em to school.
"There is mixed evidence about whether returning to school results in increased transmission or outbreaks." Bwhat, Bwhat....Early Reports, mixed evidence, other countries, possible increases? Think about it: other countries. You mean like all those places that only have a scintilla of the cases and DEATHS that we do? Had to go to the smallest pool to take the biggest dive: our kids?
"More research and evaluation is needed on the implementation of mitigation strategies" no shut Sherlock, but let's send in the clowns.....I mean kids....
"For example, the first pediatric patients in South Korea and Vietnam were most likely from contact with an adult family member." Vietnam....did you say Vietnam? Now tell me someone isn't reaching...… The only thing I know about C19 and Vietnam is we have over twice the deaths from that war, they were mostly kids, mostly poor, too. And I protested the heck out of that one.
"However, more research is needed on SARS-CoV-2 transmission between children and household members." Dat true by me.... but the survey says: damn the research, send in the kids. Vietnam says go, go, go.
Now, as for the reasons: "Schools play a critical role in the wellbeing of communities." "fundamental part of the infrastructure of communities" "safe and supportive environments structure, and routines" "other needed support services to children" "vital role in the economic health of communities" --- OK, now we're getting to it folks, the crux of the biscuit: it's all about the money. Send in the kids, we need the cash. Of course, no studies here, not even early. It's just that the rich guy whose kid will never touch the floor of a school while c19 rages wants you to go back to work and he is willing to let your kids go back to school to do that. It's all about the money and remaining in power. Again, these quotes are the words from the CDC's Guidelines. Read that report with a critical parent's eyes.
God Bless
Strangerdanger: I think we're at the point where as individuals we take the action we feel is best for our kids. Some people may heed to the CDC, others to their district's plans, others remote only.
At this point, I am not considering any guidelines from the feds. The proof is in the states that opened too early. Call me old-fashioned but I kind of believe in science, data and intuition.
Scientists can’t lie? Haha good grief, the dumb statements from SD! Remember this is the guy who posted “Mueller time” every Friday. How did that work out? Oh yeah a big nothing burger.
Of course this disease is scary but how come the government has different strokes for different folks? Like rioters and looters...uh...protesters...are allowed to gather in large groups but peaceful folk can’t go to church? Stop living in fear and stop trusting liberals.
Suze I ditto that and was trying to show how the CDC seems to be spinning it's guidelines. We all know that extreme pressure was brought to bear, people want to keep their jobs, and retribution is in style. But, as I said earlier, even in the darkest moments, most scientists have great difficulty lying. That's one reason they are scientists; truth is in there DNA, they search for it, they live it. Otherwise, they would sell used cars. I think that is the case here, it's just whether we want to see the truth as written.
I think it's up to each parent to make their decision, I feel for those that must send in their kids due to economic conditions, and I am glad Mr. Murphy has provided an option for remote teaching. Frankly, I say this is our opportunity to change the system to initiate up-to-date learning skills, potentially lowering our costs and increasing our effectiveness by leveraging digital tools, and increasing our world-wide competitive level. It can be done, it's this easy: https://www.khanacademy.org/
Meanwhile, in the land of the troglodyte, my nephew is an Immigration Lawyer for the Guberment. Even with a backlog cases, his entire office is being trained as TSA agents, that's one expensive groper. Seems that somebody expects never to handle immigration again, but a travel boom will be on the horizon. Meanwhile I understand that some of the armed TSA agents are being retrained as unmarked Federal agents for protest SWAT duties.
All I can say is in the 60's, they lied to us, they gassed us, they beat us, they infiltrated our peaceful organizations and gave us hallucinogen mickeys, they yelled "law and order" as their rallying call and we still prevailed. We will prevail again.
Peace out and see you tomorrow.
I do have children. I believe it’s important for all people to get back to normal life. This being isolated is not good for children. It’s political because the virus has been used by politicians to manipulate us, unfortunately that’s the truth.
It’s a shame that once we return to schools, the entire focus will be on Math, Science, Social Studies and English. Looking at some of the surveys sent home, it appears that the district has removed all classes that might bring actual “life” and “interest” to a student’s day. Art, Spanish, Computers/Tech, Music... all virtual. That’s a damn shame. Not denying that those four subjects aren’t important, but it’s like eating white rice every day for every meal. Give the kids some spice!
DJTanner That isn’t what I said Suze; I never said never.
I quoted the report. I said read the report. You’re entitled to your review. Please let’s not politic our children but stand on the facts. I quoted the report.
Protests and schools are a false equivalency. I do not think they are comparable.
Please don’t belittle me, it just demeans you. State your facts, your case, and please leave me out of it.
Suze: Of course being isolated isn't good for children or adults. BUT, the alternative is to risk infection of not just our children but everyone they come into contact with. Moms, Dads, grandparents, teachers, etc.
Of course the mental health component is a factor but is it worth getting the virus and having both a physical and mental health component to deal with? Only you an answer that for yourself.
As for the politics, I'm not going to engage. Liberal. Conservervate. Moderate. The virus doesn't give to craps. It infects people of both parties or no parties. But it occurs at parties!
To me, the facts and data speak for themselves in all the states experiencing surges.
So for everyone saying schools should stay closed when do you think they should open?
Not judging at all I’m curious
I personally think there is no right answer
@nosilsa. Definitely no right answer. Our district is doing a hybrid plan with some in-person instruction and the rest virtual. I am comfortable with that to start. If I was in a surge state like Fla. or Texas, there would be absolutely no way...
I am comfortable with hybrid although would like teachers to have that option too.
Timing in a perfect world is vaccine fully deployed, in the current world hybrid. And that means sustained Rt of < 1.0.
Seems sad that we don’t use this opportunity to revamp the entire process to leverage the digital world, real world working environments rather than rely on our current Henry Ford factory line education process.
They must learn together they say. Heck, most often my teams were global, a team for 6 mths to 2 years, and physically together only 12 times a year. That’s todays work world in many cases. So why not educate to work in the real world.
Like Suze says:
"Stop living in fear and stop trusting liberals."
Take the red pill.
If I am reading all the plans throughly it looks like at least as of now schools will have two plans. It appears there will be an all remote option as well as a two day a week in school option. So you choose what’s best for your family.
This is for Warren Hills which was released yesterday.
How much extra will this cost tax payers is the real question...NJ is at the breaking point already for most people
We are past 4M cases nationally and Florida has surpassed NY in number of cases.
No, we can’t keep things shut down indefinitely but need to work within reasonable parameters, which is no easy feat.
Finger pointing and the blame game stunts progress and deflects.
Let’s just focus on what’s best for our kids and try to work with one another to help our parents in need.
Suze,
The world is shut down right now as far as schools are concerned.
Top 10 countries in global coronavirus cases are shut down, we are top of the list rushing to open up.
"Like the flu, those with compromised immune symptoms are most at risk as are the elderly. "
It isn't anything like flu - it leaves behind permanent multiple organs damage unlike flu in old & young people. If it was easy peasy sickness like flu, the world would have solve it with a "flu shots".
Parents can do best for their kids.
I rest my case.
I would say they should announce closure until Jan 2021 then re-assessment. That seems the logical thing to do and a shame they need to make any announcements last minute. But nearing August 1 and still spinning the wheels is ridiculous.
The Yale - you didn’t make any case. You made a few statements of which several were inaccurate. England, for example, partially reopened schools in June since their school terms run into late July. There was no surge in cases affecting children and/ or teachers.
Suze,
You said its just like flu, now that I burst your bubbles, it doesn't make sense to you.
Why does the rest of the world have stupid Republicans in their countries?
Thanks to them, we are number 1 in death & cases & after 4 months, 4M+ cases & 150K+ deaths, republicans still think its just flu & red pill is the solution.
12% of English elementary schools opened in June and the results - outbreak in those schools. Now, England's schools starts in September, there's still a debate whether to fully open schools in September
https://globalnews.ca/news/7111202/england-schools-coronavirus-outbreak/
https://www.euronews.com/2020/06/09/england-drops-plan-for-primary-schools-to-reopen-before-summer-as-covid-19-lingers
England, aka BJohnson, wanted to reopen schools. But they couldn’t so they settled for about 25% total students, 50% of schools.
Is that our plan?
As far as English surge, it’s too early yet, but they haven’t been a poster child so far.
Remember how long our current re-surge took post reopening.
CDC did not use this example I think so apparently not good enough for them at this point (but Vietnam was). Doesn’t sound like the acid test yet and as a model, sure 25% of students, 50% of schools is better than what US and CDC suggesting. Let’s start there, I’m with ya Suze. Much better answer.
Suze; let’s just respect other people’s comfort levels regarding the virus and reopening. Everyone has a different comfort level.
@Steve +1.
Way too risky right now. Hitting pause until January just makes sense.
ConcernedParent123 I consider myself an optimist realist. I bring my sunglasses and umbrella when it is raining. I hope the sun will shine but I am prepared for it to not. No one is trying to burst bubbles, but we can not live with just hope and not include the realism. NJ is looking okay right now, but most believe another wave will come and soon. We hope it doesn't, but I don't want to take the chance with my children. (They ate also not public school age yet, so that is a different nut to crack.)
This virus is new and there are many unknowns to a constantly evolving situation. More children are getting it than in the early wave. Were we just more vigilant here or is it because of the mutations? Are the mutations just quicker to transmit or is it weaker or stronger? I don't know the answers but I will wait it out a bit before I put my children in potential harms way.
+1 Mel
NJ and Warren been trending up last few days while Rt been trending down. Don’t know if cases lag Rt changes and Warren’s higher trend has been 5,6,7 cases a day. Two 6, one 7 and today’s 5. So pretty low but when avg 1.3 a day for a week, a notable change. Last week avg was 3.3. (Hey warren hd, keep the weekly avgs in a table instead of erasing them each week. I’m old and crs).
Hopefully contact tracing crushes upwards trend but I fear a classroom cluster and would rather see the beta test in another place for one more semester.
What’s one more semester?
And if people economically have to send em in; if those who can stay home, aren’t we still safer.
My niece is a teacher. She and her friends are updating their wills especially if they have kids going to others, trying to increase their life insurance (for some reason this is hard to do), and preparing all sorts of scenarios with a plethora of grim choices. She loves teaching, wants to go back if safe but is unsure of what’s next so is preparing for unknown higher risks.
Good article about how staying indoors can weaken the immune system during the pandemic. Exercise and vitamin D are important.
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200521-can-staying-inside-weaken-the-immune-system
Rutgers football team is now quarantined. Imagine if schools are in full swing.
As stated already schools are offering two choices, which some have already announced they are. The two choices are full remote home learning or 2x a week in school. Both programs will run concurrently with parents being able to make the choice which program to choose for their child. With this said the anxiety goes away for me I will get to make the choice in a few weeks based on the current state of affairs and I will not be forced into a single plan.
A 9-year-old who died of coronavirus had no known underlying health issues, family says
By Denise Royal and Rosa Flores, CNN
Updated 7:43 AM ET, Sun July 26, 2020
That's one case W. Nykin. I understand the great concern. But children are dying from other things in a much higher numbers. Cancer:
Among children ages 0 to 14 years, it is estimated that, in 2018, 10,590 will be diagnosed with cancer and 1,180 will die of the disease ( 1 ). Among adolescents ages 15 to 19 years, about 5000 will be diagnosed with cancer and about 600 will die of the disease.
"My niece is a teacher. She and her friends are updating their wills especially if they have kids going to others, trying to increase their life insurance"
The drama. Wonder how many store cashiers and Uber drivers are updating their wills...
dodgebaaall,
Okay, send the kids to ubers & stores to find that out instead of schools. Besides, desantis said if people can go to Walmart, kids can go to schools - that means kids should go to Walmart instead of schools.
@dcp: Nobody is disputing the deaths of children from other diseases but to stay on point here we have to stick with the topic at hand: covid19 and the risks to children and the adults they may come into contact with in school.
This entire pandemic has been handled with deflection. So, as a community the least we could do is to intellectually debate the subject at hand: covid19 and school reopening.
dcp -- cancer is not contagious. You can't "catch" cancer from your friend or teacher.
In the last 4 days there have been over one million new cases of people infected with covid 19.
Why is there even a question about this? Why was it made political? I believe the na sayers just have not known someone that has experienced this horror...
He battled Covid-19 for 128 days. Here's what he wants you to know
Newsroom
"Miracle" Larry Kelly recovered from being infected with coronavirus. He spoke to CNN's Brianna Keilar about his experience after 128 days of hospitalization.Source: CNN
Consigliere: there are many news outlets theses days that are customized to our beliefs. It’s the sad truth but can we please stick to the topic at hand: covid19 and school reopening. Feel free to start a new thread on media outlets.
Consigliere - I am sorry if you did not understand- the source stated is cnn.com - I am a writer and always try to source material especially in such trying times. Point being - there are lasting effects to one's ravaged body after this virus. I am happy that you do not know of anyone that has been suffering. Be well.
For reals - Let us hope the coming weeks brings more clarification and an end to putting our teachers and students at risk.
Why do teachers have to go in- and students not required to? Isn't the local union for them doing anything?
Churches, doctors, even town hall is having meetings by one form or another VIA social media so why is opening up schools a question?
Come on folks, who are we making happy here and why?
Bernie Yes dodge, what about cashiers at supermarkets. Being exposed to a new set of people every few minutes...
In the last 5 minutes, I got 2 texts... The first was advising the land and use board is having a teleconference, the next was from the school about signing kids up for fall sports... So it's safe for these kids to have contact sports\school, but grown adults can't meet in a room for a meeting??
The hypocrisy is sickening!
My child will be safely at home come Sept.. Just like the governing body of this town!
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