Mother was Denied Opioides After Surgery
So this whole opioid movement has left my 50 year old mother in excruciating pain after dental surgery. I have a high tolerance when it comes to pain yet when I needed my wisdom teeth pulled, advil did not cut it and I was lucky enough to have the percocet my dental surgeon prescribed (which by the way I did not grow addicted to or even crave afterwards). That was 4 teeth I had removed. My mother had 8 removed plus her jaw bone had to be ground down. Her face is swollen and literally black and blue but these doctors are now refusing to treat her pain. This was 2 days ago mind you and she still got up this morning to go to work. It's incredibly upsetting to see someone suffer do to others ignorance.
Person23 
AJMS My son had shoulder surgery last July and they gave him such a low dose of percoset that it did very little to curb the pain. He just dealt with it. Unfortunately with all the people out there that want to numb themselves down until they get addicted, this is now the new reality that some patients will suffer because of others stupidity.
Metsman The others you refer to are Drs. They are part of the cause and wholly responsible for the result. Freakin Drs have told me to drink whiskey. Heal yourself quack. Because you ain’t healin us.
Your Mom is a perfect candidate for an opioid; short-term, short duration, excruciating pain; that’s the sweet spot they should be used.
They can prescribe, they just have reacted over the top. There is no law preventing them.
There are alternative meds that can help; not as good as an opioid but better than aspirin.
Strangerdanger 
4catmom I'm so sorry. I know people with conditions that are also in pain or get horrible migraines and used to be able to get medication. Now, they don't get it or have to jump through massive hoops. It's a shame that some ruin it for all. I feel for your mom. That is terrible for her and for those to watch her go through the pain. I'm hoping she gets some help.
DogDayAfternoonThe pain for your mother will be short lived. If she is in that much pain take her the emergency room. The Opioid Crisis is real!!!! There are other things you can do to alleviate her discomfort.
Walking Girl Sure, the crisis is real. And the response is knee-jerk over-the-top over-reaction and just as real a crisis as the crisis. A complete reversal on opioids without equivalent alternatives is an ass-hat decision. When someone needs opioids and you give them aspirin that’s like solving obesity with a diet of air.
Drs. gave out these pain killers because they worked. For the first time in history, we really could put a dent in acute, short-term pain, and, with proper control and monitoring, lessen long-term severe pain.
Short term use should not be under the same process as long term use. Instead, we just say no. It’s so much easier for the Drs. Not so-much so for your Mom who is treated like an addict before her first pill.
The drug companies lied about harmful effects. There was harm. Lots of people hooked, lots died, some turned to illegal sources.
The answer is not to cut it all off; these pills serve a purpose when prescribed, used, and monitored correctly. They relieve short-term acute pain better than anything else. They-can alleviate chronic pain but that’s should be a completely different process and set of guidelines.
And the Dr. telling a person with a family history of alcoholism to drink whiskey should rot in, well, you know.
Just scream and make them write a script. Tell them to grow a pair and write the script. Tell them if they won’t write you one, they should self prescribe because there will be much pain, acute pain.
Which dentist? Call this schmuck out.
callitlikeIseeit for perio and oral surgery - Dr. Steven Campolattaro - excellent, painless, cheery to a fault and willing to give meds if needed - can't tell you which because the hub and I didn't need them..............
What does the opioid crisis have to do with prescribing pain relief to a surgical patient?
Surgical patients are the very people who should be getting those medications.
Cigars are for women Unless she has a past history of an issue with opioids, there is no reason IMO that she should not have been prescribed at least a short dosage (a few days worth) of pain pills. I have been prescribed them after oral surgery and and at other times and they seem to be so weak of a dosage that they don't even work (5-325). Most times I don't even take the Rx from the Dr. I try and do get by on ibuprofen. They don't seem to work or my husband either. Makes us wonder how so many get hooked on something that doesn't even seem to work. But I guess all drugs affect people differently.
I hope your mother feels better soon.
4cat - There is no such thing as painless oral surgery. Even one extracted tooth will at least be sore. When you get into implants, a jaw ground down or sinus lifts etc. it's normal to have some pain. Pain is the body's reaction to trauma. All of things I listed are traumatic to the mouth, jaw and face.
Calico696 Dr. Campollataro is beyond excellent. I had gum graft surgery all four upper and lowers. He sent me home with extra strength motrin. Which I only used one. Most pain can be controlled with Advil, motrin etc. Especially oral surgery. My daughter had four wisdom teeth out same deal no opioids.
Grow a set people, unless you're managing severe pain you don't need them. And even then if you have that much pain you probably need a surgery. I don't know a dentist that prescribes oxy's. Unless you want to be a junkie in the making.
Steve Steve - Most oral surgeons, including mine, will prescribe them. They will only give you a couple days worth though. Usually 10 pills maximum.
In the short term, I was told by an ER doctor, that 3 advil+2 Tylenol has the same pain-killing level as 1 percocet. It's worth a try- I have used the combo for back pain (and for the finger fracture/stitches that I had), and it does help.
JeffersonRepub I was also told that combination, JR. I was told 2 extra strength Tylenol and 3 Ibuprofen, but I took 2 of each. I was afraid to take the 3rd. lol
Bug: So? We should stop doing something because some people got arrested for abuse and breaking the law? What’s your take on gun control with that theory :-). (Don’t answer, just a thought provoker)
JR; for chronic pain, I would start like you are, avoid opioids, even the tiniest of dosages, if I could. There are other painkillers, stronger, that are not opioids, too. And be sure to monitor your liver in that those Advil n-cids you’re pumping ain’t without risk themselves. None of these are as effective for pain, but for chronic pain, opioids are risky. EOLife pain vscenarios, give me the frawkin opioids, put me in la la land.
Short-term acute pain is a different kettle of fish and I would rather use opioids short term than these other solutions because they work better. Far better. After decades of use, I’m pretty low risk of addiction.
Steve, grab your own pair and squeeze if you can’t handle the strong stuff. But don’t harsh my mellow with your maniacal medicine mandated restrictions. I hate any pain that is avoidable, especially for just a few bucks. I frankly enjoy feeling a little buzz, getting a little loopy, feelin no pain, and can handle the addiction risk. I have a pair tyvm. At least have a avoided addiction for decades of sporadic use.
Street purchases? Mexico or Canada maybe. Sure, but only if I can guarantee quality which we cannot.
These Drs avoiding opioids in situations like this one are not following their own oath. Shame on them to not prescribe what works, is legal, and can be safe.
Addicts are still going to get the drugs they want because they don't do it legally. So, law abiding citizens pay for criminals again.
Patti I had my wisdom tooth extracted and was given a prescription for Tylenol #3 which I didn't take because I didn't have pain. The only pain I am having is TMJ which I was hoping went away. I am surprised they didn't prescribe her something for that.
Sher Of course we're talking short-term, SD.... I wouldn't live on any kind of pain killer, including aspirin (which has recently been shown that it might NOT actually protect you from heart attacks like they thought anyway....)
For my back pain, the oath gave me rx ibuprofen, chichis nothing more than 4 advil in 1 pill. Funny thing is... with insurance, it's CHEAPER to buy 30 rx ($1.05) than 120 advil at shop rite! LOL
JR - I buy the generic ibuprofen. It's the same exact thing as Advil. I just got 250 for $4 at Walmart.
+ 1,000 PATTI, Addicts are still going to get the drugs they want because they don't do it legally. So, law abiding citizens pay for criminals again.
This especially difficult for us seniors going to the doctor every month in NJ. The Problem is just as bad here in Ohio. But at the worst if you get too many refilled they can send you to pain management before getting anymore. I am careful not to take more than I need.
Old Gent @Walkinggirl please find me when your 90 and try saying that. If I'm unlucky enough to live that long in these times I'd rather have the option to alliviate the pain. My grandfather had pancreatic cancer and they gave him NOTHING. We went through hell just to keep him comfortable until the day he died and in case you didn't know thats an incredibly painful way to go. I also know addicts and have lost ppl to it but you know what that was their choice. They had help and chose to ignore it. You cant save those that don't want to be saved and some of those "alternatives" arent for everyone either. The drug dealers are still making money and ppl are still dying. It's unfortunate but true and the only ppl this movement is keeping it from are those that need it most. Ill pray that you're never in that position.
Naproxen is very good, but if the pain is that excruciating, medical marijuana would be the best option.
I certainly understand how government controlled everything is now. Big brother makes our decisions for us because he knows what’s best for us. );
Positive I would say take her to the ER. Motrin 800 should be ok. She had a lot of work and she will have pain, but it will go away.
BrownEyesGuy I'm going to ask a really dumb question here, but has your mother called the Dentist and asked for a script for something? Maybe they don't give a prescription unless the patient NEEDS it, not just to HAVE it in case.
JrzyGirl88 I know this is a little off, but watch a show on TV called "Weediquette".....it seems to help a lot with diseases and definitely is not the "deadly" drug many of us have been told by the media, politicians and the law makers...
mammadone The opioid crisis - an analogy
Remember the “pill mills,The OxyContin Express, Hillbilly Heroin, etc”, back in the 90’s, all over the news? As a result, they have since locked down the system so tight, its nearly impossible to Doctor shop, double or fake scripts, get more than one needs. It’s a national database, tracking all controlled substances.
What happened to the war on street drugs? The propaganda conveniently weaned the public from using the “H” word and replaced it with the “o” word. Insurance companies don’t have to cover the patients meds, because of a completely different problem. The “crises” is causing grief to patients and doctors, alike. It’s a “PC” win, for the insurance companies. Jeffrepubics comments, seen on other threads regarding this subject, were spot on! The domino effect, from the “war” on drugs is more crimes. Treatment or legalized drugs for the existing addicts stops them from committing crimes to prevent suffering, thus breaking the cycle of new addicts. Education, starting in the 4th grade, showing the REAL dangers of these drugs. Drilling it home, without worrying about TMI for your children.
Chronic pain patients can still (barely) get Rx for medication. The insurance just denies coverage. Can still be filled, just pay out of pocket. That’s going to stop the war on drugs?! Heroin? Meth? Nope...just going to hurt innocent folks who are legally prescribed these medications. Overload the doctors with so much paperwork, that some have to hire more help, just to fight for the right of their patients. The pharmacists, who have been helping the same pain patients, for years, are seeing the fallout, firsthand, as a result, also. They have to keep a headset going all day long, helping patients navigate the new laws.
This is one analogy to the “crises”:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DsItiDPUcAAeydB?format=jpg
Guilty-Remnant What are the “laws” stopping Drs from prescribing? Or are they just over reacting and trying to minimize any scrutiny over possible malfeasance? Is there an actual law outlawing opioids?
I'm all for medical marijuana but unfortunately it's not for everyone. Everyone responds differently to medications and sometimes what works for some may not work for others. My aunt is actually allergic to it. The first time it was prescribed she had to be hospitalized for an allergic reaction. My mom has taken percocet before for a back injury and didn't have issues with it and has no history of abusing drugs either. The elderly are already being treated like criminals just dealing with pharmacists as it is and it's disgusting.
My mother did indeed ask for one and even wrote a letter. They gave her nothing.
The sad thing is that ppl who do see pain doctors and go through the incredibly difficult process of getting their prescription every month are also drug tested just to make sure they are actually taking it instead of selling it. They have to pay for that drug test. They have to PAY to be treated like criminals. Soon it'll be easier to legally commit suicide
Person23 I swear you were my child writing this except I’m not quite 50 yet! Lol so weird that we have many of the same circumstances... my son who is 23 got all 4 of his wisdom teeth out under local anesthesia. Sent home with 12 norcos and antibiotics. This was 3 months ago. He took maybe 5 pain pills in the beginning, stopped bc the pain wasn’t there anymore when he woke up then took 3 more when he developed dry socket. Went back to college in Ohio and left me the bottle with 4 pills that he didn’t take. Fast forward to this past Monday. I go to get all of my bottom teeth extracted (8 were left bc of what that monster Dr. Vecchione did) bone graft due to massive abscess also because of him and 6 implants loaded. All done under local anesthetic I was awake for it all!
I was given 24 Tylenol with codeine and antibiotics
I am allergic to ibuprofen and NSAIDs so when I blew through those Tylenol’s I had to drive an hour to the implant dentist with tears streaming down my face to give me something stronger. I was Given. A RX for a medication I had never heard before (Some kind of hydrocodone med)
Brought it to 3 CVS’s here in town& the Rite Aid - no one could fill it, closest one was the rite aid in Belvidere
Call Walgreens and spent 10 minutes on hold after I told the pharmacist what the medication was.. said they had it but I would have to wait 30 minutes while they completed a background check on me even though I had filled there before....A background check???!!!!! WTF!!!
I just smiled and smiled at the pharmacy tech with my sutured up smile and tears streaming down my face assuring him that I wasn’t a drug addict or gonna sell my pills like I’m in Paterson ...
true story .. this is the sad state of affairs
H-Town Mama Person23 gets it. The only thing I disagree is blaming the pharmacists OR the doctors. It’s not their fault. It’s the rehashing of the “war on drugs”, only instead of concentrating on the illegal, nastiest drugs the “administration”(politics off the forum, remember?), set forth rules, starting in 2017, drastically reducing the amount of narcotics, benzodiazepines or the combination of the two. The doctors are spending too much money on paying employees, to fill out mounds of paperwork regarding every Rx for anything over ten days. The pharmacist has some discretion but usually follows the doctors orders. I understand the need to monitor, but like previously stated, that sh$t was locked down during the “pill mill crisis”. If anyone is curious how the laws have changed, Google for specificities. It gets complicated with the math regarding how they’re measured. I just know elderly folks who have been on the combo deal for years and are now just seeing the fallout from these new laws. They got their Rx reduced by 80% and are totally miserable. Just waiting to die. After twenty years?! That’s cruel!
GR --- thanks, but yes, I blame the DRs, big pharma, and a industry that could care less about anything but profit. You might blame the people, the addicts, but really, they are just victims of the greed and lack of sympathy by the industry which prides itself on that hypocritic oath.
Big Pharma held back the info telling us of the danger so they could sell more..
Govt over reacted in a one-size fits all, all is evil, draconian fashion with no difference for short-term acute pain versus long-term chronic pain versus EOL scenarios. Their goal was usage reduction, not patient care.
Your "law," which is probably a regulation, basically makes it easy to just say no. Drs choose profit over patient care.
Ask yourselves this: if these pills totally sucked, why did they prescribe them to begin with? And, if they had purpose, why do we completely stop prescribing them?
It's bogus overaction combined with overreach supported by greedy drs that would rather boost their bottom line than deal with paperwork, government visibility to serve their patients as their patients should be served according to that oath they all took and now abandon.
Sorry, but this one really hacks me off because it is just so stupid to decide: just say no to something that works, has purpose, is cheap, just because additional control and monitoring might be needed.
Dr. Campollataro was super friendly, super smiley, but completed a crown lengthening on a tooth that had an infection brewing underneath it from the other oral surgeon’s carelessness
Then to top it all off the office proceeded to double bill me for the procedure using dental codes that my insurance company doesn’t recognize and refuses to refund me what is due even after my insurance rep called them and I sent a letter personally to the dentist himself and still crickets 18 months later....
Htown mama, we are dealing with a similar issue with a local doctors office, double billing with bogus and invalid codes. Three months of weekly phone calls to both insurance and the billing office and everyone refuses to fix their errors. Looks like we’re on the hook for hundreds of dollars in completely fabricated claims for services we didn’t receive with absolutely no recourse whatsoever. I wish you luck dealing with yours, and I wish patients had better protections from shady doctors.
Kat Kat, assuming that your insurance is through your employer, try to get the company's insurance broker involved to intermediate between doctor's billing office and insurance company. It's worked for me in the past.
ianimal Recently, with BCBS, they billed me for an extra month's premiums. Took 60 days to reimburse. They couldn't do a credit on the credit card, so they mailed a check. They called this an expedite.
Then I ended my service at the end of January. They denied a service in the last week of January as being outside my service. I believe their review process is around 60-days. Wonder if my bill from the DR will come in before that for the whole procedure.
In both cases, I jumped quickly to supervisor level since line-agents were just blocking. Given the obvious nature of the discrepancies, just amazing.
In the past, I relied on United Health to be 100% on billing, and they were. BCBS has failed on every first attempt. Now I am back to UH/AARP/Medicare ---- we'll see how this new adventure goes.....
Bottom line: I was not a proponent for Universal Healthcare, but at this point: WTH, why not. Hard to be more buggered up than this.
"I wonder if the original poster could let us know how mom is doing."
It would be nice, wouldn't it? Most of the time they just disappear.
I think the OP might have wanted to just vent or is too busy looking after mom. I do with that mom is doing better and is comfortable by now. Pain is god awful to go through.
Person23 - hoping all is better with your mom. I hope she has found some comfort or meds to ease her pain. Thank you for caring about her.
SD... you said...”You might blame the people, the addicts, but really, they are just victims of the greed and lack of sympathy by the industry which prides itself on that hypocritic oath. ”
Actually, the addicts are the LAST people I blame. A lot are legitimate pain patients and got pulled into the physical dependency, without even knowing it. Most don’t even know what addiction is, until they physically experience it themselves. The “victim part”? Now, that comment was spot on.
You’re spot on. Bad writing. Shoulda been “some,” not “you.”? Meant general you, royal you. Sounded right in my mind, reads wrong — you’re right.
"I think the OP might have wanted to just vent "
A lesson on venting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4EDhdAHrOg
This thread is interesting. I just had dental surgery, rooting and scaling and pockets taken care of and the doc had no issue with 10 pain killers 2 a night for 5 nights and Advil during the day. Non issue.
CraftBeerBob That’s the amazing part; my ortho has no issue as well. Even “beamed” them in based on a phone call from me when other Drs say it had to be a paper script given in person.
Htown ER told me try whiskey.
It’s a system run amok......again.....ruled by fear, not science in this case.
Res2 "The pain for your mother will be short lived."
Walking Girl - "The pain for your mother will be short lived."
It's easy to say that when you are not in severe pain. Each minute feels like an hour. A person in severe pain today doesn't care about being pain free in a few days or weeks. They are in pain NOW and and want to be relieved of it.
,
Stranger Danger:
"You might blame the people, the addicts, but really, they are just victims of the greed and lack of sympathy by the industry which prides itself on that hypocritic oath."
It's not just about the victims. These doctors were selling prescriptions to those who then get a huge amount narcotics which will be sold on the streets for thousands of dollars a bottle.
The doctors used to hold " pain clinics" and would give out coupons for discounts..they really pushed the stuff
Why wouldn’t they; it works well. It still works well, we just use stuff that doesn’t work as well even in cases where opioids would be safe; short term acute pain.
They just forgot to check with patients on long term results and effects.
Countryside
I still stand by what I said A YEAR AGO!
The pain is short-lived. Pain management therapy would be a much better option. Severe pain needs to be dealt with in a hospital under a doctor's care, not at home picking up your scripts and popping the pills. Nothing gets resolved that way. The relief will come every time you take that pill. Then you will need more than one and so and so on. The problem causing the severe pain is not resolved and now your hooked on the opioid.
If severe pain is persisting than something really wrong is going on and needs to be dealt with properly.
Opioids are a pet peeve for me in that I fully understand the issue but believe that complete avoidance is just not the answer. Everyone handles pain differently, everyone handles opioids differently. Sure, there are similarities but that's where proper use and proper monitoring and follow-up come in. Do the work physicians, quit taking the easy way out. That's what caused the problem to begin with.
Walking Girl --- while you are correct that the pain for dental probably will be short-lived, that's the perfect problem to be solved best with opioids. Short-lived acute pain. Some of the worst pain I have ever had is a root canal; affected my sinus and all heck broke loose. Thank goodness for opioids to deaden the pain. I did not get hooked.
I needed no hospital. I needed no round-the-clock or frequent doctor's care. And I certainly didn't need advice like drink whiskey or some lame half measure prescription that doesn't work as well. I just needed some help for a couple of days. It all got resolved that way. Relief came with every pill, I was totally relieved, and that's all I wanted. Two days later, I needed no more. It was short-term acute pain, why would I need more once it was over? Never took enough to get to the place you're talking about. And the problem causing the severe pain was resolved 100%.
Sorry but it just irks me that we completely abandon a great tool from the toolbox just because it has some risk. Monitor and mitigate the risk, don't throw the tool away.
Pain management therapy my ass. Sure, when it's someone else's pain, you can come up with these ridiculous sounding "therapies", but I'm sure when you are dealing with severe pain one day, perhaps from surgery or cancer, you will be begging for meds to deal with it.
Ridiculous.
LibertarianismRules Bug3 - Exactly!
I would rather try other things rather than fill my body with pharmaceuticals anyway.
Libertarian
Please be my guest and take the opioids. Just be aware of the risks associated with it. No one should need them for any longer than 7-10 days AT MOST. If you still have SEVERE pain, something is wrong.
Look into pain management therapy you might actually find it could be helpful.
Name one alternative that matches.
Yes, I agree 7-10 days unless eol. Then, worried about addiction, really.....
Why abandon something that works, has no substitute, and can given safely with reasonable risks.
The patients and doctors who have abused the use and prescription of opioids have ruined it for those who truly need them. Shameful. Patients that need pain relief should get it. It’s not that hard.
RAS Probably extremely expensive but alternative drugs exist
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/01/160128155006.htm
The woman who is the subject of the original post needed short term pain relief. She's not at risk of becoming addicted after a couple of days. Dentists can and have given people enough for 3 days or so. Making it sound like she's a drug seeker or at risk for becoming a junkie is silly.
Walking girl, are you aware that pain puts unnecessary stress on the heart? And that our elderly whose pain is not short lived are suffering because of this movement? One day you will know this kind of pain just as the rest of us will if we reach that ripe old age. We literally deteriorate until we die. We put animals to sleep to spare them that suffering. It's just not logical to keep somebody in a hospital when they're only seeking pain treatment to have a quality of life to begin with. That may be your experience with pills but most people I know follow the instructions on the bottle. I've also lost people to opioid addiction but that was ultimately their choice. They realized they had a problem at one point and chose not to seek help. We cant help those that don't want to be helped but someone in undeniable pain- charted in scans and x-rays - should not be denied help either. Are we going to start telling our cancer patients that their pain is short lived when they don't want to spend their final days trapped in an overpriced hospital bed?
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