Wuhan Virus
https://www.bing.com/search?q=Wuhan+Virus+Linked+to+Bio-Weapon&src=IE-SearchBox&FORM=IESR4A
Check this out: Disgustingly scary!
Hackresident Think SARs for timeline.....both are coronavirus. SARS was 2002-2003 and we got a late start.
Good news is, so far, less lethal than SARs
Bad news is, so far, much more contagious than SARs
Good news is the world should be on this faster than SARs
Bad news is that it's China and we really don't know that to be true.
5 in US, all from China. Maybe 250 "suspected" and being watched.
strangerdanger If that were true, I'd think a reputable news source would have picked up on it days ago. Is it possible? Sure. But consider the source.
eperot 
Bug3Here is a link from a legitimate news source
BBC News - Chinese diasporas stockpile surgical masks, fret over infection
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/51245373
SD, I believe your comments concerning the Wuhan corona virus are a bit optimistic. I don't mean to be alarmist, however consider the following: China originally claimed the virus originated in a fish market in Wuhan. Now, given the number and scope of their citizens affected they are suggesting it might have originated elsewhere. Question is, where is the elsewhere? Possibly a Chinese bio-lab? Next, why would the Chinese be scrambling to build a hospital in less than a week to treat those affected by the virus? Seems the Chinese might know more about the seriousness of the situation than they are letting on. Sure, they have shared some information about the virus with the global community, but just how much is in question. There is some reason for suspicion given that communist China, like Russia, has a history of controlling/ limiting what they tell their citizens and hence the world. Remember Chernobyl and how the Russian government at least initially denied there was a problem?" Or how they denied responsibility for the deaths of Russians resulting from the bio-weapons anthrax leak near Sverdlovsk? This concept of coverup is also true of the communist Chinese. Therefore, I believe we should be open minded to the possibility that the new corona (Wuhan) virus might have escaped from a Chinese bio-lab similar to the anthrax leak from the bio-weapons lab near Sverdlovsk.
plc Bug3 - I don't think eperot meant "that" to mean "Corona virus". The original post is "Cornona virus is a biological weapon". I believe eperot was questioning what evidence connects Corona to a biologic weapon lab.
GC Plc; does not change the facts about the disease on how contagious and deadly it is. I did note “China lies” which could change everything. They are both corona viruses and we do have a time table on SARS including the “cost” of the Chinese delay in terms of spread and vaccine creation time. Lab, wet market, fish market, really doesn’t matter right now, does it? Right now, we need a vaccine.
A test for a biological-chemical warfare? someone told me that the disease could also be formulated from diseased Bats. the only BCW Lab is in Wuhnan, China - interestingly where the disease first got started.
Not a very good lab, apparently. First rule of science: never xxxx where you sleep.
iJay iJay, During my time in the service we were taught about bio/ chemical weapons. We learned that bio-weapons aren’t always designed to kill. Some are designed to incapacitate only. An Army cannot fight if they are sick with fever or unable to leave the toilet. The opposing army then has the upper hand, it’s solders having been previously vaccinated against the bio-weapon.
I'm sure RU will give us the virus nioweapon facts :)
So far, it could be conjecture based on the location of the lab. However, the Chinese government does seem more alarmed than they usually show. A bio-weapon could be a reason.
maja2 They had SARS. They had avian flu . And now they have labs now so a bio weapon could be the answer because why, after all those diseases, why would a lab NOT be for creating bioweapons. I mean what else would you do with a lab.
I mean if you have disease, and you have a lab, then you must have bioweapons. And if you have bioweapons, what better place to try them than in your own neighborhood. Especially if you haven’t created the vaccine..
They have fish markets. They have wet markets. The corona virus jumps from animals, like bats, to other animals, like the ones in the market and then it jumps to humans like the ones working and buying stuff in the open air markets in close proximity to live and dead animals. They closed the markets so it could be a bioweapon.
Or maybe it’s the CDC, that’s a lab, who planted it in China during the trade negotiations to mess that up making the deal look bad because they want gun control. We have labs, maybe we did it.
But I bet it’ll turn out to ve Canada. They have labs and they’re always so polite. Could be they just want Vancouver back from the Chinese.
Walleyed https://www.biancoresearch.com/coronavirus-growth-rates-and-market-reactions-2/
Scary start to this virus. The commentary talks about an R0 of 2.0-2.5 and plots the actual infection rate on a logarithmic scale-wow.
They do issue the following disclaimer, which is completely appropriate imo:
“To be absolutely clear, this is NOT a prediction that 100 million people will be infected by Feb 20. Rather, this has been its growth rate for the last 12 days. A vaccine, mutation or successful quarantine/isolation could help reduce this growth rate.”
justintime Heard that back even in my days in the Army plc. This one doesn't look like that, but of course you never know...
All we can do is wait and see.... I remember when the "bird flu" was going to kill millions. FAIL.
JeffersonRepub The big problem is the 2 week period where a person can be contagious but have no symptoms. This is why extreme measures are needed in China for it burn out.
It has a fatality rate of 2% killing the very old/young and sick. Get a virus with a 50% kill rate and hundreds of millions will die. It is going to happen one day, hopefully beyond the lifespan of all of us.
"It is going to happen one day, hopefully beyond the lifespan of all of us." Cheery. Can we talk about that supernova or asteroid strike now :>( Try getting up on the other side of the bed tomorrow :>)
I've seen 2-3%, 3-4% mortality which, I think, is lower than SARS or MERS. However, this coronavirus is much more contagious and this one strikes the young n healthy more so than in SARS or MERS. So more contagious, less mortality.
Vaccine will be tested in a few months, maybe producible in 12 months. This is faster than SARS or MERS because we did those already and China was faster on announcing/quarantining this one. Everyone has the virus genetic sequencing by now including our CDC. However......chances are we will quarantine and it will burn out before the vaccine is ready. That's what happened with SARS.
Bottom line: quarantine is really the only thing that will really help us. Masks may slow it down but proximity is what makes it spread. Vaccines probably won't be in time for this first wave.
The key is quarantine, and hopefully, the Chinese were fast enough and will be effective at closing other hot spots down. And then it will basically burn itself out.
While Chinese biowarfare might be considered by some to be the cause...….chances are it jumped from bat to animal, with said animal appearing at wet market where many people come in close contact with living and dead animals where it probably jumped from animal to human. That's the real problem that the Chinese need to fix. If biowarfare, then they created it, gave it to a bat, had the bat give it to another animal, and then introduced said animal to a human. All in proximity of the wet market estimated to be patient zero. Apparently, they can work backwards in knowing whether human-to-human or animal-to-human transmission based on subject testing. That's kind of cool.
SD, Once again you are misinformed concerning creation/ modification of viruses. You don’t “create” the virus and give it to the bat and then the human. You extract a sample of virus from the bat and splice in human genes to make it contagious to humans. This type of research occurs not simply to cause illness as a bio-weapon. But to study the ability to combat viruses that have the potential to one day affect humans. Therefore, the Wuhan virus might not have resulted from a bio-weapons project. But rather a research project into viruses in general. Either way the virus might have accidentally gotten out of the lab, infecting the general public.
The stock market has been taking a beating because of this virus. I've lost money on my 401k this year because of it.
Metsman Wow, that stinks Mets --- I lost a bet in China too, but that's a shaky bookkeeping story and my greed.....so, no Atlantic City on that bet... :>( So far, this year, I am rollin in it, especially the past two days. Today should be good too except for that upturn at the end-of-day...
"Once again you are misinformed concerning creation/ modification of viruses." Really PLC --- "once again?" oye… really? I can't remember doing the virus bioweapon conspiracy theory debunking before. Can you source how they make these things and splice them? I am used to their DNA, and genetic coding techniques that can lead to both the alpha source and ground zero geographic location, I know many have replicated the virus in the labs already but would love to read about your method of creation in animals and then splicing to humans. Sounds fascinating.
On your current theory, you read Washington Times which invented the story based on a unsubstantiated, unsourced, whim from a crazy guy who's thrown out similar, yet proven false, claims before. His story was subsequently picked up and "enhanced" by other "media types."
You may be right, but you're probably wrong. Very probably. Your guy has been wrong in the past. WashingtonTimes is generally good on the news, but on the investigative stuff ---- can get tinfoily, or at least it has many times in the past.
Try this: https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/01/29/coronavirus-china-lab-mortality-virology-wuhan-virus-not-bioweapon/ scholarly --- rated fair, balanced, and high-level fact-based reporting by Media Bias/Fact Check..
Or: https://www.politifact.com/facebook-fact-checks/statements/2020/jan/28/blog-posting/websites-spin-conspiracy-theory-about-coronavirus-/ --- rated fair, balanced, and high-level, fact-based reporting
Oh yeah, just for the record: Washington Times rating: Right of right center bias and mixed factual reporting...… Once again.....once again....
Hope that helps. Kind of interesting really so thanks for prompting the search. Let me leave you with a hint. When you read a story that seems outside of the main story, the exact same story repeated from a variety of media outlets, that all seem to be originating in same minor thing (in this case a quote and a lab location), with no new news in each story ---- danger, danger, it's probably one guy mouthing off and a bunch of weak journalists repeating and embellishing without actually REPORTING.
Stranger
The odd part is the number of new hospitals they are building in China...something is going on
I agree, it is odd. However, since China "brews" more of these viruses, has much more experience with what the disease is, where it is going and how to derail it, you can see where they would understand the need. Also, China has more high density than we, less regulations, paperwork, and fear of new building techniques, making the need and the solution different from a US paradigm.
And the world knows that quarantine is the only answer; the vaccine won't be there in time to stem the contagion; only quarantine can stop the spread for 6-months to a year before the vaccine is here. And that's with Chinese drug approvals, not ours.
Also, these are not sustainable hospitals but rather quarantine centers for a specific, single purpose so chances are, they will never be full Hospitals.
Here's some more info: "Rawlings says that China’s history with mass epidemics has prepared them for the ongoing crisis in Wuhan. “In many ways China is ahead of the US and other nations when it comes to responding to mass infections, as they’ve been through this before with SARS in the early 2000s,” he says. “China can also have fewer bureaucratic restrictions when it comes to designing and constructing massive projects like this one, particularly when so much is on the line.”
Perhaps it's not the Chinese that are odd, but it is us that don't have a plan like this?
https://qz.com/1792705/coronavirus-the-engineering-behind-wuhans-rapidly-built-hospitals/
Scary that some people are so brain dead that they actually think this virus has something to do with Corona beer. SMH
https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-corona-beer-not-related-google-trends-2020-1
Calico696 Vicious rumor started by Budweiser who began their history their name from Czech Rep where the real Bud was created.
Corona is part of Anheiser Busch -Bud, though, Strangerdanger, so why would they start their own rumor?
Good point, but wrong. Corona is not part of AB. Corona is a beer made by Groupo Modello. Budweiser is a beer made by AB. AB and Groupo Modello are subsidiaries of AB InBev, based in Belgium. InBev became AB InBev when they acquired AB. As such, they are like brothers of a different mother. Have you not heard of sibling rivalry?
Budweiser is a town in Czech Rep. with a beer of the same name. Our Bud stole the name. Because of that, there have been distribution legalities where each of the beers can be sold in Europe in the past. Cold war stuff. These beers share nothing in common beyond the name. After the collapse, AB offered to buy Budweiser out but so far; no. Thank God.
Oh yeah, it was a joke. I know, don’t quit my day job. Beer historian ;-). Pretty funny since I cannot tell one beer from another. But I do know a real Bud will put you in your cups in no time.
Man, I hate conglomerates.
https://holisticprimarycare.net/topics/topics-h-n/infectious-disease/113-human-influenza-virus-inhibited-by-oil-of-oregano.html
Oil of oregano also works for colds. Don't buy any inferior brand. Get Oreganol P73 from North American Herb & Spice company.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/11/coronavirus-expert-warns-infection-could-reach-60-of-worlds-population
An employee of mine is from about 500 miles from Wuhan, and his family is still there. He claims that China is low balling the infected number which is truly at least 100k just in China.
Maybe, it's the end of the world as we know it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0GFRcFm-aY
IJay, I totally agree that they are really lowballing it. It's a serious situation. I think the current 1k death number is not even I smidgeon of what's really happening. Can't believe they jailed the doctor for trying to warn everyone, and then he dies from it. It's pretty catastrophic.
Forcefed4door Soo.. according to that article, my rough math says 48 million could die.
In context- It took over 200,000 years of human history for the world's population to reach 1 billion, and only 200 years more to reach 7 billion.
So just a blip. If we survive- buy the dip!
Joke, sort of. We can't control whatever this mess is so I'm not worrying.
Whatever comes my way I will deal with it best I can at that time.
Josh Just read this-
"Maybe the virus is going to attenuate its lethality because it certainly doesn’t help it if it kills everybody in its path, because it will get killed as well,” he said."
And I automatically will discredit anything whoever thought that has to say.
(reputed 'one of the world’s experts on coronavirus epidemics')
Umm.. yea, a virus thinks and tries to make rational decisions. Suuuure..... 公驢
In express today; https://www.lehighvalleylive.com/news/2020/02/lafayette-college-student-hospitalized-feb-3-does-not-have-new-chinese-coronavirus-doctor-says.html
Hope the students test results are correct. Keep hearing of cases where some people test neg and later come down with the virus.
ks I was just shopping at a busy store in town, actually Mansfield. The cashier just came back from Italy. She was temperature tested ok. But if you go for a week and the incubation is two weeks, or more, it's very possible to be infected. Seems to me that spread of the Corona virus is inevitable. Thoughts?
p.s. Italy is having a serious outbreak
OnTheEdge Everybody who has drunk Corona or eaten Chinese food in the past month should be quarantined. You know who you are... up against the wall.
ianimal 
somechick1 
Smilingbecs 
I'm going to Italy in a couple months... hopefully this thing has burned itself out by then...
To kill this virus we need a long run of cold weather. Thus far not happening. Unfortunately the coming warmer and wet weather will make it worse.
Jono DJIA down 1k points (3.6%) and NASDAQ down 350 (3.7%). That's the 3rd-largest drop in history (for the Dow) from an absolute value standpoint, but probably not even top 20 in terms of percentage...
Corona virus is a fancy name for the common cold....yes upper respiratory infections do kill...the Chinese data may not be credible...we don't really know what is going over there...but if you disrupt the chinese manufacturing chain to the US...you can affect the stock market....down 1000 pts today
According to reports, it's not the common cold: Wuhan, China has a biological/chemical warfare lab. Something may have been intentionally released from the Lab.
All it takes is 1 person around her to be infected.
I seriously wonder if this could be the end of the world as a healthy population....... as it keeps spreading and killing.
If it turns into the flu...yes it will get nasty and many will die.. millions already die from the flu....usually old people in hospitals or nursing homes...if this becomes another spanish flu...then we are in trouble
Tin foil hat time again. Read farther up, doubtful it’s a war experiment. The lab is a lab started after another virus; no proof that it’s developing weapons. Scientists and doctors think it originated in the wet markets there.
It is more contagious, less lethal, than past Sars, Mers, etc. and effect all ages and health conditions. Thus, while death rate is lower, with more affected, more death.
If China started 12/2019, levels off by 3/2020; we have a timeline GIVEN quarantines, etc. That’s a big if in open border Europe. The next few weeks will be critical.
For us, note our people who manage pandemics are mostly gone, fired, or replaced by Fox pundits. I suggest prayer.
JR: better at least start looking into canceling. Even if Italy goes heavy quarantine; doubtful you will prove it leveling off there by then. A couple of months out looks pretty risky. My niece just cancelled China for late summer.
Personally, there's no way I'm putting my family on a plane going anywhere anytime soon. Certainly not overseas.
Well, we did buy travel insurance... I wonder if heavy quarantining (if it's still occurring) will be enough for it to be used, or if the WHO will have to declare a pandemic.... guess we'll find out...
Watching news yesterday, and travel expert said that travel insurance will not pay if you choose to cancel because of “fear” of traveling or “Fear of getting sick“ . It is pays only if you , yourself, become too ill to travel and have a Note from your doctor saying you cannot travel.
Don’t rely on travel insurance. At the very least, check with them first about coverage.
JBJSKJ Well, I'll bet the WHO (World Health Organization) declaring a pandemic would have some influence on airlines honoring travel insurance claims.... but it would have to be declared an pandemic first, which will cost a lot of people a lot of money.... politics and wallets come into play at that point.
Just know your options and timing in case you have to pull the rip cord; hopefully the planes etc. will let you off the hook. That’s what happened to my niece.
Gonna be strange if planes fly you in and then you can’t get out ;-(
We could be getting close to Triple B time. Bunker, beans and bullets. ;-)
Maybe, I should add a fourth B for beer. LMAO
Scary stuff. You could drag me on a cruise ship or plane for free. Even movie sets like Tom Cruise's closed down in Italy. I hope they find something quickly to help the pandemic spreading. My thoughts are with those who have it and those carrying it that might not know, yet.
If this scares you, just wait till someone uses CRISPR to make the real deal. You can do it at home now.
It's only a matter of time..
dodgebaal "Add a 5th B for bourbon"
Nah, need to stay sharp to be able to shoot straight. Tempting idea though.
Well, I was hopeful, now I am hopeful to get a weak dose...…
This one is really scary: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/02/covid-vaccine/607000/ Combined with administrative management moves, gets scarier.
Need to watch Europe very carefully; we need to significantly up our testing. And we need big Pharma to actually care as in ---- give them money to expedite the vaccine.
Good luck stopping it, going to spread to 40-70% of the World's population:
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/02/covid-vaccine/607000/
Worse than The Atlantic prediction is our readiness to fight it; we have reduced those organization’s managements and staffs to bare bones. We have little pandemic preparations, global support, and infrastructure left. We need to rehire our experts. Now.
From the BBC website. Sounds like Italy will the source for the western world.
"Austria, Croatia and Switzerland said the cases involved people who had been to Italy, as did Algeria in Africa.
The first positive virus test has been recorded in Latin America - a Brazilian resident just returned from Italy."
some food for thought/perspective:
" It’s important to put the risk into perspective. The Coronavirus does not appear any worse than the annual flu. The key difference is that there is no vaccine, and one will likely take months to develop. It sounds even more daunting and sinister because it’s new, mysterious, and originates from a foreign country. "
" It’s frightening to watch the news reports of health officials in China wearing rubber gloves, surgical masks, goggles, and hazmat suits as they treat patients. But these images need to be tempered with reality. Each year tens of thousands of Americans die from the influenza virus."
" During the 2018-2019 flu season in the United States, about 75% of all deaths were age 65+. Roughly 17% were between 50-64. These two categories comprise 91% of all deaths. But look closer and you will see that many of them had an array of pre-existing conditions that left them with weakened immune systems. Early reports from China echo this: Most of those who have died were already in poor health. One preliminary report placed the median age of death as 75."
" All indications are that this Coronavirus is much milder than its two cousins, SARS and MERS. When SARS (Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome) broke out in China in 2002, it was traced to civet cats and had a death rate of about 10%. There were just over 8,000 cases in 17 countries. SARS is a variant of the new Coronavirus. In 2012, another variation of the virus broke out in the Middle East and was dubbed Middle East Respiratory Syndrome or MERS. The virus had a much higher death rate—about 35%—but only affected 2,500 people and was much harder to catch than SARS; transmission was linked to camel meat. The good news about the new virus is that while it appears to spread more easily than its two predecessors, it is far less severe. "
article:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/its-catching/202001/the-chinese-coronavirus-is-not-the-zombie-apocalypse
also, word directly from Italy (I realize these people are in the tourist business, and are trying to calm people's fears.... but there on-hand account is still interesting and relevant):
Posted on FB by, interestingly, one of the hotels we are to be staying at...
To everyone in our extended La Bandita family, I wanted to offer my thanks for your concerns as we start the new season here. At the moment here in Tuscany, life goes on very much as normal, where as of today, there are no cases of the virus. The majority of cases in Italy are clustered around several small towns in the north, and the Italian government has acted with (surprising) efficiency and transparency, understandably enacting intense precautionary measures in those areas. The first individuals infected are already recovering and those who have died from this virus have all been elderly and already suffering from cancer or diabetes or other health issues. More cases will come, and no doubt this virus will arrive on everyone’s shores soon. And while the world's attention right now is focused on this, the truth is all of us face far greater dangers in our daily lives every day (millions suffer the flu each year in Italy alone, with many of the weakest members of society succumbing each year with no media attention). Our planet is facing far great disruptions and dangers right now, while we count on one hand new cases of coronavirus. This is the current situation, but of course things may change for the better or the worse. Those of us that work in hospitality and travel depend on the freedom and tranquility of global movement so of course we are hopeful and optimistic for a speedy stabilization of the situation. But we are also concerned and responsible members of a global community, and if the situation becomes unsafe, I will honestly report to our guests and clients that it is not the moment to travel. But for now, there is no reason to suspend plans. Now is not the moment to panic, withdrawal and listen to politicians or “journalists” acting unreasonably for their own benefit. Listen, follow the instructions from responsible and reasonable leaders, stay informed from trustworthy sources, stay in touch with your friends around the world, and continue to live your lives. Now...where is my Negroni?
These are the current number and distribution of cases in Italy:
"La Lombardia registra 258 casi, Veneto 71, Emilia Romagna 30, Piemonte 3, Lazio 3, Liguria 3, Toscana 2, Sicilia 3, Marche 1 e Alto Adige 1".
As I have been saying:
The death rate is less than SARs and Mers.
The contagious rate is higher.
There will be more death than sars and mers.
It kills young, old, and those in the middle; that’s not just another flu.
Whatever China lies about, the world was on it faster and better than before.
Planning, preparation, testing, and diagnosis and quarantine are key.
We have gutted, fired, fear mongered our organizations for public health, disease control, and homeland security. Many are run by political appointees on an acting basis. Many top positions are vacant. We used to coordinate with over 40 countries, now it’s 10.
As an older gent with diabetes; yeah, I am worried. Not scared, but extremely concerned.
"There will be more death than sars and mers. "
In the end, probably. But the regular flu kills more people than SARS and MERS.
Globally:
SARS: 744 (death rate 14-15% BUT that only included people who were hospitalized, so it is suspected to be much lower)
MERS: 858 (but a 35% death rate)
regular flu: 12,000-56,000 per year (death rate impossible to calculate, for many reasons, but it seems to hover around 2%)
Right now, Wuhan Virus has about a 2% death rate... but that is still being determined. It's a bit early to tell if it is "worse" (in total deaths) than SARRS or MERS. Time will tell.
So, based on statistics, as of right now, the Wuhan is no worse than the regular flu, either in spread or death rate. But of course it's developing... just be careful of media fear mongering, which has several political and financial agendas that would benefit from making a mountain out of a molehill. Just as they do with Hurricanes, snow storms, etc.
It's how catching it is that scares me. Seeing people die that have treated people adds to it. I think we're in for a rude awakening.
"Nurses in Wuhan, China, psychologically stressed and physically exhausted, appealed to medical workers around the world to come to the heart of the outbreak and help them treat the thousands of infected people there." <<<New York Times
What I get from this is that you aren't going to stay home and just get better, you are going to need treatment, serious treatment.
Shoot, where are my hip boots? Might actually need to go full chest waders on this one. If I leave now, I can probably get to Cabela's and back home just in time, lol.
Not Chad wolf Yeah, but regular flu is nation wide, world wide. This was one guy or two in a wet market in China and here are.
I dunno about you, but during the sars scare, when those Canadians sat at my blackjack table in Vegas; only I ever got up from a winning streak ;-). It will change our lives and without planning and preparation, dramatically.
It’s twice as contagium as flu and 10 times as deadly; that’s how concerned you should be.
Planning and preparation are key, not denial and distraction. We don’t physically have to do much yet except to plan and prepare to stay ahead of it. We have test kits in 4 states. NY and NYC have none. Are we ready? Does that sound ready?
We’re on the boat for sure, probably; but we don’t have any charts and all of our captains have been fired. I guess we will hear our strategy tonight, hopefully not just how great everyone is and how it’s all OK.
" While flu deaths in children are reported to CDC, flu deaths in adults are not nationally notifiable. In order to monitor influenza related deaths in all age groups, CDC tracks pneumonia and influenza (P&I)-attributed deaths through the National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS) Mortality Reporting System. This system tracks the proportion of death certificates processed that list pneumonia or influenza as the underlying or contributing cause of death. This system provides an overall indication of whether flu-associated deaths are elevated, but does not provide an exact number of how many people died from flu." -- from the CDC
The 2% number I have seen for regular flu takes into consideration people who died from complications of existing conditions, which is also the profile for the current Wuhan virus.... the people it's killing are by and large those with compromised immune systems, the elderly, people with pre-existing conditions such as cancer, diabetes, etc. Many are not dying FROM Wuhan virus.
It has not been statistically shown to be "10 times deadlier" than the flu. That's a news headline. No one knows how deadly it is yet. RIGHT NOW, it's a 2% death rate... but as I just said, well never mind, just read my last post, from the CDC.
"We’re on the boat for sure, probably; but we don’t have any charts and all of our captains have been fired."
SMH. Stop reading and watching MSM.
57 cases in the US. All have been contained.
Air Italia offering refunds to people who request them (I'm sure there are stipulations; they may not be offering refunds to people with tickets for 3 months from now, for example)
China stats on deaths don't mean anything. Italy tells the real story.
"The cases are heavily concentrated in the region of Lombardy where 212 infections have been confirmed. The authorities said Tuesday evening that 11 people have so far died from the virus in the country."
11 deaths of 322 cases in the country.
That's 3.4%.
I think that's probably the most accurate number we have now, maja. Time will make it even more accurate. Iran also has a lot of cases, but between their reporting/trust level, and their healthcare, I don't think we can trust numbers from there, either.
Interesting tho... if we have 57 cases in the US, 2 of those people should be dead... or soon will be... I guess we'll see (so far, no deaths)
Maja, still early yet. Remember, only those who go to doctor or hospital are in your estimates. Every day more who haven't gone yet will turn up and most will not die.
Yes JR, none of the numbers are exact and we won't know better numbers until time passes or after it's over. But only one person in power that I know of dared to equate the mortality rate of "regular" flu with COVID19 --- Your "The 2% number I have seen for regular flu" I respectively think is wrong, that's the current COVID19 mortality rate. I think the "regular" flu is more like .1 to .2% Thus the 10-times factor.
Sure, these numbers will change, these numbers are, at best, directional for the simple reason that many people with the flu, even COVID19, do not go either to the doctor or the hospital.
I know you don't believe MSM or the news, but really ---- .2 versus 2 seems directionally to say COVID19 is more deadly, if contracted. It is also more contagious-able (is that a word) than SARS, MERS, and the other corona's we've seen.
I think to low ball the danger is not prudent; to high ball the danger, during the planning and preparation phase is prudent, IMO.
This is not prudent: "Problems with a government-created coronavirus test have limited the United States’ capacity to rapidly increase testing, just as the outbreak has entered a worrisome new phase in countries worldwide. Experts are increasingly concerned that the small number of U.S. cases may be a reflection of limited testing, not of the virus’s spread.
While South Korea has run more than 35,000 coronavirus tests, the United States has tested only 426 people, not including people who returned on evacuation flights. Only about a dozen state and local laboratories can now run tests outside of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta because the CDC kits sent out nationwide earlier this month included a faulty component."
It gets worse: https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/02/25/cdc-coronavirus-test/ or try: "a dozen state and local health departments can do the testing, although positive results need to be confirmed by the CDC."
Sure, it's WAPO, those lying dogs, but certainly gives one pause for consideration. As for me, I await tonight's press conference and hope we hear about tangible planning and preparation efforts to stay on top on this thing, if we have to. Hopefully we will not however, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cures. Because if we are not ready ----- this one could hit fast and hard.
JR, a large majority of those cases were related to the cruise ship and the victims are probably young enough that they aren't at risk for death by complications of pre-existing conditions. We will need to wait until there is a more random distribution of the virus throughout the population for the lethality percentage to regress to the mean.
To me, what we want to see is when Italy and South Korea levels off.
Like I said, China reports started 12/2019; leveling off started 2/2020. It's still early to really say it's levelled off, but so far.....so good.
So, two or three months. One would think Italy and South Korea, given their heads-up, can beat China's timeline, but again, it's still early.
Point is ---- figure it's gonna happen. Question is how do we tell (might be nice to have testing in 50 states and not require CDC for confirmation), how do we react, and how fast can we react. With it crossing Asia, Middle East, and Europe, chances are we can't close down our nation.
But we can plan and prepare for what looks like the inevitable. Nothing better than to wake up 3 months from now and say: "SD, you wimp!" That would be grand in my book.
The last thing that is needed is PANIC, PANIC......PANIC. The people who control the MSM want panic. Everything gets sensationalized one way or another. We don't need grocery store shelves looking like there is a snowstorm coming constantly. Everyone needs to just chill.
Jim Bakker wants panic so he can sell his doomsday food buckets, lol... who doesn't need a 5-gallon spackle bucket full of Mexican food when the Apocalypse is right outside your front door?
https://store.jimbakkershow.com/product/augason-farms-fiesta-bucket/
Yikes, ianimal! Does it also contain a 6 month supply of mascara in memory of Tammy Faye?
Ian, there you go then... perfect example of why we need more metrics before deciding "here it comes!!! Everybody batten down the hatches!!!" Which is all I am saying.
30 days of Mexican food in the hermetically sealed underground bunker sounds more dangerous than the virus. Gonna need more hepa filters :-)
I agree, the current facts should not lead to panic, don’t panic. But if a little msm getting panicked gets better planning and preparation underway, panic away! If the Congressional questioning of Health Commissioner yesterday, launched by Kennedy is an example, we ain’t ready. Lucky the Commiss led the sars response, at least he’s been there. But Kennedy, and others, were not pleased with the response.
JR: I think the time to batten down is when the first “community based transmission” occurs. That is, when the first guy gets it where we cannot determine where he got it, its time to reduce your group activities and eat Mexican while wearing waders and grabbing your mask ;-)
Anyone else seeing cut-rate trips to Venice on the HL banners? I blame JR :-)
JR, this one's for you. Think it's a pretty good site, looks rational, for Italy. Looks good for all of us to track happenings in Italy which I figure is a pretty good proxy for, hopefully, our worst case experience. I mean they knew it was coming, sounds like they were ready to take action, and here they go. So, if China is telling the truth, and they had a 2-3 month escalation until they levelled out, let's see if Italy can beat that timeline. Enjoy the site.
https://www.thelocal.it/20200227/breaking-coronavirus-death-toll-in-italy-rises-to-14
Here's the main site, has lots o stuff: https://www.thelocal.it/
Iran seems to be really screwing the pooch with their handling of the outbreak... which really shouldn't come as any surprise to anyone.
https://news.yahoo.com/iran-t-hide-coronavirus-explosion-102629171.html
It’s a world crisis and even we are affected by Iran’s, or anyone else's failure.
And now a whistle-blower complaint alleges that hhs sent untrained and unprotected staff to assist in the quarantine procedures for the first two flights back from Wuhan. They were given no protective equipment! When their job was done they went home.. On commercial airplanes.. And back to their communities.
How many times has this happened though.. We only know of this instance.
I feel really bad for the career professionals who have to deal with this level of incompetence from the people who were appointed to be their superiors.
I also feel bad for the whistle-blower because she was basically fired.. Or rather given a reassignment.
At this point our response is only a little bit better than Iran's.
Be safe! Be ready! We might be on our own on this one.
I know 3 different people that are supposed to go to Italy this weekend, in March, and in June. I think all 3 will cancel or go somewhere else. One co-worker doesn't even want to go on a plane.
Someone told me that The Pope is not well....does anyone know if he has this too?
The Vatican reported he is under the weather.. When I saw he was going forward with his normal ash Wednesday proceedings I thought it was trouble. Hopefully he will be ok. I'm not religious, but on some level his people will need his thoughts and prayers.. As a placebo effect he will have a better effect than our governments thoughts and prayers.. Which I'm sure will be coming shortly.
Remember the Asian lady not letting go of his hand where he slapped at her? That's probably when he contracted it... or not, lol.
Don't listen to fool Trump or Pence,
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/summary.html
"What May Happen
More cases are likely to be identified in the coming days, including more cases in the United States. It’s also likely that person-to-person spread will continue to occur, including in the United States. Widespread transmission of COVID-19 in the United States would translate into large numbers of people needing medical care at the same time. Schools, childcare centers, workplaces, and other places for mass gatherings may experience more absenteeism. Public health and healthcare systems may become overloaded, with elevated rates of hospitalizations and deaths. Other critical infrastructure, such as law enforcement, emergency medical services, and transportation industry may also be affected. Health care providers and hospitals may be overwhelmed. At this time, there is no vaccine to protect against COVID-19 and no medications approved to treat it. Nonpharmaceutical interventions would be the most important response strategy."
This is one disgusting way a friend told me that the virus got out of the Wuhan, China Lab !! (I also think it was purposely released into the air):
_____________________________________________
Yes, the laboratory animals are used to test the biochemicals. The article says that after the animals were used and injected, infected, they were sold to the food market, instead of disposed of.
That's how the infection was spread from the good market. Disgusting, inconceivable.
Yeah, those Chinese just love to ...... where they eat. You have no facts. You don’t list a source. You are Hackresident. Sigh.
This is going to create a new normal. Thankfully we are approaching warmer weather, 80 degrees plus seems to be the number now in killing it. However, the Spring is predicted to be below normal. Hang in there until June...
Perhaps a new normal, perhaps a always-has-been normal. However, it's pretty clear the Chinese need to review how their "wet markets" are regulated. Think this is at least the second one originated in those environments.
The good news is we are faster than ever to monitor and control. Yes, even with China's lies, they were faster than before. Credit the internet, social media, smart phones, with forcing transparency. Harder to create walls today.
As I said, Italy is probably our best bellwether right now, given they were on it right away and hopefully are honest. I might add South Korea as a barometer as well. China, according to WHO, is leveling, however that's China.....and can we believe it.
Italy was spiking yesterday, but there are no updates for 24-36 hours --- that's concerning as Italy might be foolishly looking to protect tourism. Hope they are not being that stupid. South Korea just picked up 500 so still early yet.
Since vaccines will only protect us next year if it reoccurs, medicines might be on the way for the 20% infected that get very sick, 5% that need hospitalization, and 2%-3% that will die, containment is our best defense for this year. Yes, we will make mistakes like the unprotected health workers sent in to do battle OR ratting out the whistleblower to silence further whistling.... But we will overcome petty partisan politics and figure out how to maintain.
Enough with the conspiracy theories, the false equivalencies about what is worse, and the like. Our best chance to make this a nothing burger is monitoring is monitoring, identification, and control. Making TESTING available throughout the land should be Pence's PRIMARY objective. If we can't identify it, each infection will mean 1.5 to 3.5 more infections that we need to contain. That, combined with a 2% death rate, is WHY this is just not a flu. So, TESTING, plus monitoring Italy and South Korea, should be Pence's main concerns.
Here's the current status in the pict.
Food for thought from a Navy SEAL...
https://sofrep.com/news/how-to-prepare-your-family-for-the-coronavirus-a-navy-seals-advice/
Here is another Seals perspective on the issue
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-LIqdjqHts
Watched the story about the selling of lab animals to food markets...Of course its true..its China ...I never buy any foods marked China ...nobody should.. everything is polluted.
PREDATOR Of course it’s true if it’s China. I watched Hannity; I know where the blame lies.
Wonder what pred’s protocol is when seeing an Asian sneezing....
Who cares about the blame game. Who cares who is in what office. Who cares who dropped the ball; pick it up and move forward I just want to buy N95 masks on the web again. I want real status. Let’s identify, contain, quarantine, and get through this so we can all get together, in person, to scream at each other again.
I’d add in the 401’s but to be honest; I’m OK. Frankly better than OK. Tried to post warning, but couldn’t do three on a match. Missed Clorox but caught OLN. Gotta love guns n chlorine - symbiotic!
Don’t see Italian or Korean updates, that’s worrisome.
South Korea up to 2,337 as of Friday afternoon... 571 more than the same time Thursday.
https://abcnews.go.com/International/fda-reports-1st-drug-shortage-due-coronavirus-outbreak/story?id=69276490&cid=clicksource_4380645_2_heads_hero_live_hero_hed
And I confess to buying 9 pounds of pasta yesterday... but that's because it was on sale for $0.88 and I love a bargain, not because I'm panicking or anything (-;
Same here. We always have quite a bit of stock on our basement shelves at home. Lots of canned tuna, canned chicken, soup, pasta, coffee, beans, canned tomatoes, paper towels, toilet paper, tissues etc. We are all for bargains as well!!!
Current numbers from Italy:
Lombardia 531, 151 in Veneto, 145 in Emilia-Romagna, 19 in Liguria, 11 in Piemonte, 8 in Toscana, 6 in Marche, 4 in Sicilia, 4 in Campania, 3 in Lazio, 3 in Puglia, 1 in Abruzzo, 1 in Calabria and 1 in Provincia autonoma di Bolzano.
Yeah, Italy realizing it was in the North for a couple weeks meaning lots of folks went to other countries before scrutiny increased. Korea is still rising too. At least they seem to be transparent and knowledge is power.
Clearly it’s gonna get worse before better but we’re ahead of Korea and hopefully we’re ahead of Italy and both countries are fighting back.
Pension vs 401k, Pension wins, flu does not affect it.
Medicare- you are not going bankrupt, so no worries.
Sick time, well I hope you have some, or you will either be canned or have no income.
Don't have healthcare, better not have any assets a hospital can latch onto. Call your lawyer.
callitlikeIseeit Just wondering....what if it all turns out to be a great big nothing burger? We've seen it before.
"Ok Boomer"
Not a Boomer, Gen X. Anyway, you act as if we haven't. Remember SARS, Zika, MERS..... The media hyped those up too. We were all gonna die.
I think you mean "ok, GenX'er"... Calico isnt even close to the age required to be part of the locust generation
Odds are it will just seep into the population just like the flu. They will initially tell people to quarantine due to the highly infectious nature. As time goes by they will see more about how the virus acts (because we don't know and that is why we need to be vigilant).. Theyvwill ease on the quarantine requirements because it will be uncontrollable. Just like the flu.. But more severe.
Probably we will just have to live with it for a while. Those who have the highest risk factor will have to be watched.
What we need to Remeber is this. Local health agencies really can't test for it.. There are not enough test kits.. So we are actually behind south Korea. They have testing drive thru. Odds are there are thousands of people walking around in America with it and don't even know.
The cdc will have test kits more widely available early next week and will allow for more localized testing. Dollar down.. Two weeks from now our numbers will be up exponentially.
Best for all of us is to get our immune systems up.. Eat healthy.. Get a lot of exercise. Vitamin c up!
callitlikeIseeit you are WRONG. Pension funds are invested in the market. If it stays down then taxpayers are asked to fund the difference. This is why pensions need to afforded to everyone in a national system like in Canada or none; certainly not just for the craft Union-backed jobs...
Nosila "Walmart is out of hand sanitizer"
Ridiculous. Hot water and soap work just as well. People are crazy.
Website that tracks the spread of the virus and is continually updated:
https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
FarmerJake @"Walmart is out of hand sanitizer"
Actually washing hands with soap at least 20 seconds and cleaning hands with alcohol based single use wipes are the procedures recommended by international medical specialists for coronavirus. No hand sanitizes because they don't remove germs from skin.
Lena Travel advisory issued for Italy by State Department :
https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/italy-travel-advisory.html
Realistically, I don't know how this can be contained in the long run (1-2 years):
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/27/world/asia/coronavirus-treament-recovery.html
SKorea increase was forecast as the much infected secretive religious sect that brought in the numbers to begin, many of these were yet to be tested. I think. Italy is still growing too and the authorities are not sure that it was not there much earlier than when they rang the bell. Given it's a tourist mecca, that's incredibly concerning for Europe and perhaps us as well. As in, infections could have been travelling from there from a couple of weeks before they raised their hand to tell us it was there.
Yes, still growing in both Italy and SKorea, but was to be expected. So, IMO, still the bellwethers and still in upwards path, but...….and perhaps I am praying.....monitored and controlled better than the China start.
US community transmission is our big question mark and hopefully our experts will close in on what's happening there.
Actually, on this one, I am OK with the Pres statements, Pence oversight, but as we have said ------ we need to be able to test universally at the speed of light so we can monitor and control. As he said, not inevitable, but there will be more cases before there are less ---- identification and quarantine is our only control for perhaps only a few months ---- I would like one or two please...…
Great website because, on this one, again I agree ---- MSM is over-the-top feeding the fires of panic. I am a new junkie and need a fix because I just can't watch this crap anymore.
President Trump will be holding a press conference at 1:30 to discuss Captain Trips.
"Coronavirus Updates: First Death in U.S. Confirmed In Seattle Area
The death comes as unexplained new cases in Washington State, Oregon and California suggest local, person-to-person spread of the virus in the United States."
Roywhite 
LOL, Roywhite... nice Tom Cullen reference from The Stand... although Pence reminds me much more of Reverend Kane from Poltergeist 2.
"M O O N that spells Pence"
I'm glad someone caught my Stephen King reference. LOL
It's the DECREASE of pollution that's surprising. Not that they HAVE pollution, we all knew that.
Interesting to follow what kind of trickle effect we see with so many goods dependent on being produced in China. Prescription meds could see a big hit as many base compounds are produced there. If India isn't hit with the virus too badly, maybe they can pick up some of the slack... until they're in the same situation as China... which reading the news sounds like they are at the brink of.
MSM is overblowing, to an extent. People actually staying home and businesses shutting down to prevent the spread of illness is news. As every day people drag themselves in when they really shouldn't and then you get mini outbreaks at your workplace that turn entire depts into skeleton crews. Not to mention, it is a new and unique disease, with a notable death rate, so we should do what is possible to contain it until a vaccine can be produced. With so many people on medications that compromise the immune system in our country, it is in the public interest to stay updated on what's going on, even if the media sensationalizes.
FYI --- normally...….flu virus lasts up to 24 hours on hard surfaces.
Amazon those Chinese goods to my door! Leave outside please..... I will pick up in 24-hours :>)
Like I said, I am a news junky and really missing SC primary but...…..WE#$R#e em; I stopped watching except for a few minutes a day.
Still say Italy and S. Korea are our bellwethers and even here, #$#$ the media. Like yesterday when they said "SKorea spikes through the roof." Hello, McFly, the day before you told us about the secretive Religious sect that holds many, if not most, of the afflicted and the fact that 50% were still being tested. So no chucking joke Fharley. Italy is still rising too but thinks they may not have caught it for a week or two after it entered the country. Given that, just add it in to the bellwether equation, don't tell us a new piece of sky is falling until one actually hits you in the head.
Most cases it is just like having a common cold. So nothing to be overly worried about if you are generally healthy.
No need to go out and buy as much food/water as you can. You’ll never have enough anyway. But life will go on and we will get over this.
HomeImprovement #'s have really been climbing.
The more it spreads the faster it grows (yea- I know, duh right?)
Just weird to watch it all in real time when the data is all in front on one page by country and death.
Here we go....
First confirmed case in NY:
https://abc7ny.com/health/first-positive-case-of-coronavirus-in-nyc-governor-cuomo-confirms/5977498/
Lenny Rock "Most cases it is just like having a common cold. So nothing to be overly worried about if you are generally healthy."
Well, you have to worry about weeks of quarantine and being out of work.
First one confirmed in Manhattan and a smattering of social media posts about people in NYC who were told to self quarantine because they were not able to test for virus due to cdc restrictions. So glad I left the city.
Don't go to NYC if you don't have to.. It's inevitable out here.. But we are spread out. In the end it will be widespread but the impact will be unlike a serious flu.
"Don't go to NYC"
That's stupid. You know how many people who live in NJ & Conn go to NYC to work? Know how many people go to NYC for culture that is non-existent in Hackettstown? We're not staying home out of fear.
Stay away from coughing people, don't put your fingers in your mouth/eyes (see how this works with the young ones), and wash your hands with soap often.
Yes, Josh "If just 25% of the US over 80’s cohort get infected, given current mortality rates that’s 466,200 deaths in that age group alone with the assumption that the healthcare system has the capacity to handle all of the infected."
Not the end of the world but watch your elderly parents/relatives.
Bug3 - The CDC estimates deaths in the 65+ age group at 25,550 last year. So the 80+ group is even smaller than that. Total deaths of all age groups was 34,200.
You are only looking at 1 year GC....look at a 10 year span....the number is rather high
4catmom "hope no one is trying to buy hand sanitizer- it must have sold like hot cakes"
People are crazy.
Mind you, more people died in the US from the flu
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/as-the-world-focuses-on-coronavirus-dont-forget-about-the-deadly-flu-2020-02-06
kelleo22 "Mind you, more people died in the US from the flu."
Enough...… More people die from old age than...…… Anyone who does not die from something else, dies from it. It's everywhere I tell you everywhere.....
Isn't it enough to note this is more contagious than the flu and more deadly than the flu so, guess what the potential is? (do I hear jeopardy music...…) It's HIGHER.....
Enough already. Read Josh's link: looks like the straight skinny to me. Good to be informed and it's probably good to exercise a little more caution on this one than we do on the basic flu (oh yeah, and there's a vaccine for that.....)
Hand sanitizer is basically alcohol..that’s what kills a good amount of bacteria. If alcohol wipes are wiped out as well, you can buy a bottle of rubbing alcohol, use it with gauze or put into a spray bottle for when you are on the go and not near a sink where you can properly wash your hands.
Just know, you’d probably need a lot of hand lotion, since alcohol will dry out your hands.
Side note: antibacterial products when used in EXCESS not only kill the bad bacteria, it kills the good bacteria that fights off the bad bacteria. In turn can compromise your immune system. Overall, I think MODERATION is the way to go in a situation like this.
Positive "antibacterial products when used in EXCESS not only kill the bad bacteria, it kills the good bacteria that fights off the bad bacteria"
Exactly. Regular soap and hot water are all you need.
Governor Murphy's press conference from earlier today.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcvtBHqjjgA
With six deaths confirmed to be covid-19 in Washington state it would mean that the number of people who have it is huge. Which means it is going to spread rapidly. Hopefully the government will step up its efforts to control it. The w h o has been adamant about taking steps to mitigate but so far in the US we haven't done to much.
We are probably three weeks behind. This is very frustrating. They really dropped the ball on this.
Cleo Could have been employees, could have been visitors, could have been package delivery, could have been linen service, could have been.....
Stymie Not Chad Wolf - What do you want to see done? Do you want schools and businesses to be ordered to close? Do you want everyone put under house arrest?
My sons college was full of people infected with the flu a few weeks ago including two of his roommates. They didn't close down for that. I don't think stuff is going to get shut down because a bunch of old people and people with bad health are dying from coronavirus.
4cat- the idioticy of his comment is painfully obvious.
Your question is sarcastic??
Another old person accounted for here!!! Mets......don't we count???You are going to be old too someday...
joyful And not for nothing metsman, but my father died from the swine flu.. At 65. Yes, he was at risk, but at the time he died they were not testing for it because they were not yet ready and up to speed for it.
This is why I am frustrated with the administration's handling of this pandemic. Yes, i realize that it is inevitable that it is going spread all over but we have the best health system in the world and as of this past weekend we had tested not even 1500 people.
No matter how they spin this.. The truth is they are just not as ready as they say they are. And truth be told our health system is just not ready. How many free hospital beds do you think we have in America? Not many. How many respirators do you think we have? Not enough.
President Trump meets with pharma executives about Captain Trips.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zII4lRAEJrA
Well one thing I can do is spell. It’s “idiocy”. LOL... seriously though you really think the government is going close things down because older people with ailments could die from this? It’s no different than the flu the same thing happens. They don’t do anything special for that. People are just going to have to wait for a vaccine and hope for the best.
I also think it got released into the air from Wuhan, China from the biological/chemical warfare Lab, and if it's in the air, it can blow over to any country. It's crazy how it's in so many countries.
it's in NY now--is it in NJ? it's going to affect millions of people or m ore I think. why is it so transmittable?
This thing can go either way. Captain Trips or fizzle out. We won’t know, for sure, until...we know for sure. By then, it may be too late. (Geez, my bookie could have told me that). “The administration” and I finally agreed on something...”expect the worst, hope for the best”. Because of the incubation period and the common symptoms of fever and cough, this virus could result in a “Captain Trips” type situation. Fever and coughs are symptoms of millions of diseases. By the time it advances and is diagnosed, it’s too late and more people get infected. More often than not, people won’t go to the doctor for a minor fever and cough, giving the virus time to worsen and spread. Even if they come up with a vaccine, it will not 100% effective. Especially when the mutations begin. Break out those bibles and Torahs. Revisit “The Stand”. Get ready to stand up to Randall Flagg. Don’t fear the reaper. Take care of yourself and each other.
Guilty-Remnant GR --- you know, I agree with you and the admin on this one and actually appreciate the "it's not inevitable" comment, even if it was not true ---- it could be.....we can still come close. I would add: mistakes, like the lack of testing kits or the fact they were broken, sick people being released early, false negatives, etc. will happen. On this one, we should say: "damn, we need to investigate the root cause of that failure someday, but today let's fix it fast, fix it roughly right, and move forward......together.....united.....through the fog." The worst thing that can happen is we can conclude it was a nothing burger, however given China, S. Korea, Italy, Iran ------ I think that burger has been fired. Now we need to say: look Ma, we took action and it HELPED.
You know what boys and girls I have survived West Nile, SARS, Bird Flu, Swine Flu, Ebola, ZIKA, and finally the 2019 season of the NY Giants. I will survive Corona. Hunker down all you doomsday folks. I will knock on your bomb shelters when it is safe to come out
Calico696 Thinking about how awful the Giants have been threw me off track and MERS !!!
The point is to try to squash this so it doesn't come back every Fall/Winter. May not happen...
We just lost 19 or so people in a tornado in Nashville. That's more newsworthy than a virus that won't affect most people.
No, it's not... unless that tornado has the potential to spawn more tornadoes that threaten every other city in the country. THAT would definitely be more newsworthy.
World Health Organization findings:
https://www.reddit.com/r/China_Flu/comments/fbt49e/the_who_sent_25_international_experts_to_china/
Thank you OTE; hope Mike Pence knows how to read because, according to this, we need to prepare to take further actions and our testing and tracking capabilities stink.
SD how are you supposed to track something that is airborne? If we had the capability to do that we'd prevent thousands of flu deaths every year. Unless you're God it isn't happening.
Read the report kids, the Chinese have provided a workable model; all we have to do is read, follow, and improve.
It starts with 1-day returns on massive amounts of testing.
It seconds with literal swat teams to determine forward and backward contacts for the affected.
There’s more, it’s in the report. And for those with reading issues; there’s pictures and a video.
Incidentally, it pretty much says Mets’ opinions on “it’s just another flu” to be bogus fake news. But hey, read the report on how the Chinese have confronted this and sound like are on the downward trend.
While Italy is still adding more cases, were today’s totals less than yesterdays?
I still say we can make this a nothing burger and Mets can crow. But, without lots of action, we are screwed. Like the new case in New York, the guy probably nailed his kids, one’s in some college in NYC.... Really....how much time is passing.....
People won't go in for testing due to the costs. until the administration figures this aspect out, people who don't have insurance simply won't let anyone know. And here we are.. America.. With the best health care in the world or so he says.. Will go down because really we have the most expensive health care system in the world.
Nine people dead from the virus. Twenty five people were killed in the Nashville tornado last night. I wonder how many people died in auto accidents across the USA today? Most likely more than nine. Just trying to put things into perspective.
30000 deaths in the us from the flu since October. Also putting things in perspective.
Philliesman Last time I checked, auto accidents are not contagious....neither are tornados. False equivalencies those are. Yes, death is death and death will get us all. Old age is the biggest killer of all and we don’t panic over that nor poo poo disease because we will die anyways. But personally, I don’t to go on a sneeze-by by some dumb ass who didn’t act prudently or, worse yet, said it’s just another flu. Or because my health officials didn’t heed the warnings from China....Italy.....South Korea.....Iran......Washington State......
It’s more contagious than most flus.
It has a higher death rate than most flus.
It is more serious than most flus.
"30000 deaths in the us from the flu since October. Also putting things in perspective."
Exactly, thank you. And that is contagious.
Just saw a news story.. A woman documented her trip from Italy to Atlanta.. Upon arriving in Atlanta they asked her if she had been to Japan, China, or south Korea.. But not Italy.. And she breezed on past. Homeland security.. Well it's headed by a temporary appointment.. So.. You know. Way to go yo!
If we are going to put our faith in the Homeland Security bozos then we are in a lot of trouble. Hard to believe they are not asking that.
kb2755 Homeland Security yes (Bozos), but not the CDC. In general, viruses are tough to stop.
Not chad wolf maybe she came back before Italy was an issue? Again 9 deaths and only in one state that is 3000 miles away from us. Last I read only 90,000 people have been infected so far in a world of over 7 billion people.... In a month no one will be talking about this....
The media needed something to get people in a frenzy about. No winter storms this year, Trump impeachment fizzled. They need to boost ratings somehow
This report, from the CDC, as of 5 days ago say 18,000. A lot more than 9.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/index.htm
The CDC, estimates there will be 18,000-46,000 deaths for this flu season.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/preliminary-in-season-estimates.htm
There could be a lot more cases as it mimics the flu. 80% of the cases are mild and people are not likely seeking medical care. These people get over it but spread it. The mortality rate is 20-30+ times the flu. And so far seeming as contagious as the flu this is concern.Italy was hit hard because of its large elderly population.
Steve You guys need to stop comparing non-contagious diseases with this virus. There’s a big difference in the way they’re handled and the outcomes they produce.
Pretending the contagion level is the same for this as our normal seasonal flu’s is just that: pretend.
Pretending the lethality level is the same for this as our normal seasonal flu is just that: pretend.
Just because at the current time more people have died from the flu, it’s sheer folly to believe that this, layered on top of normal flu casualties, will result in normal disease and death rates.
If the equivalency numbers game is important, then it’s evident that the cumulative total of normal plus abnormal based on the factual evidence from China, Italy, Iran, and South Korea will be far greater than normal unless you think there is something special about the United States that will allow us to escape what other countries are facing today.
Instead of pretending nothing’s changed, isn’t the question: why aren’t we doing more to lower the numbers for our normal seasonal flu?
"why aren’t we doing more to lower the numbers for our normal seasonal flu?"
Good question and one that President Trump just happened to ask the scientists and pharmaceutical companies when he met with them the other day. See link I posted above. It would be great if they could really focus more on it going forward.
I have friends that have recently traveled and are feeling really sick. However, their doctors said they don't test for it at their offices and that they would need to travel to so.
This means many others have it but we will never know.
We have it within our means to reduce the number of seasonal flu cases by getting a flu shot each year. However, many people don’t and there are a myriad of reasons why.
FWIW...it's now here in NJ.
https://www.northjersey.com/story/news/bergen/2020/03/04/nj-gov-phil-murphy-bergen-county-nj-first-confirmed-case-coronavirus-covid-19/4958681002/
With Aholes like this we’re doomed. Common sense is severely lacking in a major part of the population.
https://www.thedartmouth.com/article/2020/03/dhmc-employee-with-coronavirus-broke-isolation-second-person-infected
The nursing home In Washington state which is an epicenter of an outbreak has no. Testing kits.. As in they cannot test everyone there. Wtf is the government thinking. The highest profile instance of the virus in America and the administration is like meh.. But we are sending pence there tomorrow to give all the feels.
Not Chad wolf are you some kind of person that cries the sky is falling all the time? The kits will get to where they need to be and medical professionals also have to request them in order to get them. Calm down.... My grandmother died because of incompetent care at the nursing home she was at. You really think places like that have top notch care all the time? I'm sure all hospitals will be proactive and have kits when available.
Not Chad wolf - I understand that you are highly sensitive to this topic having had a family member die from H1N1. However, 159 cases and 11 deaths in a country of 340+ million people is hardly a reason for panic. How does bashing the government help? Do we know it's true that facilities don't have test kits? If it is true, do we know why? I hardly think VP Pence's has anything to do with making and/or distributing test kits. Was there a delay in manufacturing and/or shipping the kits? Where are they coming from? China? USA? Europe? Do we know how many are needed? Do we know where to send them? So many questions........
We have so few testing kits. The Trump administration wants to downplay this, at least regarding published numbers. The real numbers are 10X or much more, however 80% of those infected have nothing more than the common cold.
Mets; according to reports, and according to the roadmap laid down by China, Italy, and South Korea, we are already behind the eight ball. The only reason we don’t have more cases, more hotspots identified, is that our testing is not widespread.
We failed on delivering accurate tests, we failed on making our commitment of delivering 1M tests, and Mike Pence’s oversight team does not include anyone of science/medicine. We just formally, at the highest level, called the WHO’s lethality statistic bogus.
I think it’s appropriate to show some concern. We can do 500 tests a day. Australia can do 10,000 I think. We are over a month behind white we need to be.
The NJ case is 12 hours old and we hear nothing about forward/backwards contacts.
And not to worry, that WA nursing home will be out of business anyways. Who would sign up for that, even if they are at no fault.
How long has this person been spreading the virus? Exponential spreading in a possibility.
SD well while you panic I'm going to enjoy my 10 day road trip I have planned to watch my son play college baseball starting tomorrow. I haven't had the flu since I was a kid. I took care of my daughter for a week 2 years ago when she had the flu, didn't infect me or anyone else in my household. Guess I have a strong immune system. My advice to you since you're an older gentleman would be to stay indoors away from the public if you're so scared to catch it.
With a lethality index of 3.4; seasonal flu being about 0.1 ----> for those of us with either age, medical conditions or both exacerbating those indexes ----> yeah, there's concern Mets. With a contagion rate that's 3 to 4 times that of seasonal flu ----> yeah, there's concern Mets.
We have no defense except quarantine and avoidance. It's like fighting with one arm behind your back. What happens when a family member catches it? Send the family away or just hunker down and take it? Mets is sure we will be proactive. Already you can't get masks, disinfectant, bleach unless you pay $50 a mask for a $5 product from a scalper on Ebay. What do we do Mets, when a family member contracts it?
If we could test more, we would find more. That's a given. That's what's happening in SK and Italy. This means the hotspots and lethality index go up just because we are looking. Italy and SK are there; we have yet to look. Then there's the 80% that are mild and may not report, be tested, be included in the stats. They make the lethality index go up. So, yes Mets, the numbers are not accurate.
But they are directional.
And they say this is wildly more contagious than seasonal flu. It's not pretend, Mets. This is much more deadly than seasonal flu. It's not pretend Mets. Look to the facts, to the science. Read numerous sources to understand the caveats, the estimates. Ignorance and ignoring will just make a US pandemic inevitable and we can write off a good % of our older generationS.
Currently we can test 100 or so a day. S. Korea tests over 10,000 per day. I think this is a case of "if you build it, they will come." Instead we are playing wait and see.
That said......Calico ---- did you know that this year's seasonal flu is on track to meet or beat the high watermark of 2017-2018's 61K deaths? That's before this new strain was added? I know you printed the numbers but did you know we were already heading to a record year? Why have we become so accustomed to this that we don't even notice. Guess that's one good thing from this crisis.
That, that said..... I still believe we need to look to China as the action plan and Italy/S.Korea as the bellwethers. I have found WIKI -- Italy coronavirus and same for South Korea to post the daily infections, number of tests, and deaths reported. It showed Italy still growing but S. Korea might be seen as leveling over the past three days. S. Korea doing over 10,000 tests a day --- remember, we can't even get close to that, we are already overwhelmed. However, a data point does not a trend make, the S. Koreans may have tightened the testing participants, and worse yet -------- the charts have disappeared. I have hope though that with strong measures, one arm tied behind our backs, we can dull the pain on this IF we unite and try.
Is the WHO freaking joking? We are supposedly assigning blame by talking about the spreading of this virus? So, this is the information that they are sharing when many people are looking to them for guidance and answers? WHO = NWO. Sigh.....
The answers to all of the questions posed here have been given in a few press conferences. There was one back at the end of January, one last week, and one just yesterday. Those are from the HHS Secretary, Head of the CDC, the NIH, and a corona virus expert at NIH.
Tests were originally contracted for by the CDC in Jan, and were delivered the first week of Feb. Those tests failed. A second test was developed that is now what the CDC is using. Prior to last week all testing was directed to the CDC. At first the criteria was visiting China and showing symptoms. That was later widened to visiting China, Italy, Korea or another area of high infection as well as showing symptoms. This week the criteria was expanded to not require symptoms or contact with a known infected person.
Testing was originally only authorized through the CDC. The first round of test kits to other labs was sent last weekend, more is being sent throughout the week. The CDC has said it will be to some University labs, military installations, state health depts. and some private labs. All with an emphasis on areas with infections. Previously the CDC was testing about 400 samples a day with about 75,000 tests available. The number of sites getting kits is about 70, with the number of tests about 1 mill.
There are other testing kits that have been developed, particularly the German one the WHO is distributing world wide including to Iran. The FDA has not approved them so they cannot be shipped here even though they are available.
Thank you GC - nice to read some facts - I just hope we all avoid panic and stay well.....
Thanks GC. Glad to hear we have gone from 100 to 400; hope they have a ramp in case we hit what others have experienced.
And yeah, when we got close to our 1m commitment; we did miss but I should have Qualified it as coming close to commit. Still don’t have that warm and fuzzy that we are prepared and run hit n cold on the messages from above in the non scientific realm.
“I believe we need to look at China as the action plan”.
You mean this plan? Yea, that will go over well here.
https://nypost.com/2020/02/08/coronavirus-crisis-video-allegedly-shows-chinese-officials-removing-people-from-homes/
GC - Thanks for your post.
kb - The video in the article you posted hasn't been verified as real. From the article, "A video reportedly shot in the city of Wuhan". It's really hard to get information out of China, video especially. Unfortunately, none of us will ever know the truth about what has gone on there and what is going on there now.
Don’t matter whether fake or not; I believe we are wise enough to modify when appropriate. OtEdge posted the WHO report on China above. You can see what is factually reported. I don’t think I would throw this baby out with the bath water; the Chinese have done an admirable job. And before we cast stones, let’s face it, our house ain’t clean either. We got a heads up, we have still made mistakes and we’re playing catch up too. But who cares; we need to fix it, move forward, united, and fight this better than other countries. Saying people are scared, reactionary, is divisive and produces nothing. It’s team time!
And Cal; chances are WHO did that overreaction as Asians begin to get shunned and persecuted for being Americans..... Yeah, it has happened. Small change in the scheme of things but if MSM picks it up, can’t hurt.
Peace out
"Don’t matter whether fake or not;"
Are you serious? It absolutely matters. Videos like that cause people to panic. I don't know whether it's real or not. I have read in a few places that it was video of a training exercise. I have read elsewhere that it was filmed nowhere near affected areas and people were taken away for other reasons. Don't forget that China is a communist country. Unfortunately, most people don't read articles anymore, they watch videos only therefore missing information that is contained in the article itself. As I stated in my last post, we will never get the truth out of China.
Fake or not this SD...
https://nypost.com/2020/03/05/coronavirus-in-iran-video-shows-body-bags-inside-qom-hospital/
Any video from a communist country is worth to say it matters.
aol123@aol.com Anyone who shoots cell phone videos in "portrait" orientation SHOULD be locked up...
"Anyone who shoots cell phone videos in "portrait" orientation SHOULD be locked up..."
And sentenced to the death penalty. ;-)
What is the value of pissin and moanin over mistakes. Note them, avoid them or fix them, and move forward. If what either of you say is true; what do you expect to do with that information?
Will aol123 hate Iran more? Recommend that we cut off trade? Drop any agreements we might have with them. What do you expect to happen beyond the right thing: offering support so they don't do this? If Iran does not get through this, we will suffer.
And what does Calico expect to do based on the Chinese video? Not follow the other things that China has done to thwart the spread of this virus because they screwed the pooch on this one? They have leveled out in 2-3 months after one serious outbreak, might even be declining, and have a working model with factual results? What do you expect to happen because of the tape? What do you want to happen? Because China lies, we know that, so should we discount the WHO report?
Here's the CBS report on the video, bear in mind this has been from 2/9/2020 and the story basically faded thereafter.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/video-appears-show-people-china-forcibly-taken-quarantine-over-coronavirus-n1133096
I think one lesson from this, which the Chinese have learned, and I believe are improving because of, given the world of smart phones and social media, it's pretty hard to be in the world, be part of the world community, and avoid freedom of speech at the same time. The bad stuff trickles out unless you have the most repressive of repressive countries like North Korea which, partly because of that, is not really part of the world community.
Thank God our protective forces have never gone over-the-top in their efforts to either protect us or enforce the laws. I would dance with the devil if I could improve our situation and path through this.
NJ is not sharing details. Why bother telling us that there is a victim.
https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2020/03/after-positive-coronavirus-test-in-bergen-nj-mayor-says-zero-reason-for-school-closures-or-panic.html
"And what does Calico expect to do based on the Chinese video? "
I don't expect to do anything except go on with my life. I'll start to worry when, and if, people start dropping like flies all around me. Or if I start dreaming about Mother Abigail and rats in the cornfield.
"should we discount the WHO report?"
Maybe. Apparently, the WHO is more concerned with people hurting other people's feelings than giving out information.
maja - That article shows that there is so much misinformation out there. The headline makes it seem definite, but the article says it's not confirmed. The article also says 99 people are infected in the US. Yet, this link says 176.
https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
I'm not sure we can trust any information. It's really too bad.
177 now, and that site data from John Hopkins.
West Chester NY is now up to 21 confirmed.
Buckle up kids. This ride is just getting started.
This article from the NY Times last Friday says the China developed a plan to remove people from their homes but it faltered because of a lack of spaces for patients. That to me says they did try it and abandoned it.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/28/world/asia/china-coronavirus-wuhan.html
Well, the China tapes show some folks got overzealous in one or more extractions for quarantine. South Korea has an ap..... apparently tells you who and where, but may burp info like who's been doin wrong...... "A 43-year-old man, resident of Nowon district, tested positive for coronavirus," it says. He was at his work in Mapo district attending a sexual harassment class. He contracted the virus from the instructor of the class." oooops…well, perhaps will keep some in line :>)
Yes, Calico, everyone, even WHO, has an ax grind. For WHO, they are PC and overly cautious. Good. Our administration likes to pooh pooh anything scientific while calling names. Grain of salt dear, grain of salt. OK, let's hit the good news.
"Virus Testing Blitz Appears to Keep Korea Death Rate Low" https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2020-03-04/south-korea-tests-hundreds-of-thousands-to-fight-virus-outbreak I saw that on WIKI this morning before the chart disappeared. My personal conclusion was "hopeful, but not concrete." SK may have changed testing parameters affecting these numbers.
A version, you can choose what to believe of the current China story. NOTE: like SKorea, the key is speed and, frankly, being a little overzealous.
https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/2020/3/2/21161067/coronavirus-covid19-china
IMO, the rate of increase (or decrease) is the most important fact we right now, I just can't understand why this fact is hard to find. WHO said "This decline in COVID-19 cases across China is real" on 2/28/2020. Anyone else hear that?
As I keep saying, watch the bellwethers of Italy and SKorea. We see some heartening news from South Korea - if right - then given a start of about 1/20/2020, we get to 3/5/2020 to start the decline??? We can hope.
China --- first cases around 1/3/2019. Decline started end of February, about 2/26/2020 Now we can see a timeline - given - the target country's approach is equal to or better than these two initial hotspots. Given the massive testing, draconian quarantines --- whatever ---- there's a tale of the tape. I think it's heartening.
Next up: Italy and have not seen much in a few days. The WIKI charts seemed to show a possible leveling but looked way too tenuous to call. Jumps between 200 and 400 the last four days. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/02/coronavirus-next-seven-days-seen-as-decisive-for-italy.html
So there it is. Perhaps the key is authoritarian government, perhaps it's a cultural fixation on following the rules, but there are two country-specific programs with timelines how to get through this. Italy, if it works, will make three. Sure, it's using sledgehammers. But we have no meds.
a repeat- this is not some cell phone video of what's happening in Iran: https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/05/middleeast/iran-coronavirus-morgues-intl/index.html
You mean Robert Duval in Battle of the Bulge, right? Or the guy who said “nah, you don’t need no stinkin mask....”
I dunno, China in decline, SKorea on the verge of decline, Italy at the crossroads.....you’d think “they’d” be singing it from to rooftops and taking credit.
I mean we got a map, we got some timelines, if we turn the crank, we can estimate what will happen.
We can make Mets and Calico be right for once ;-). It’s highly possible ;-)
Well, NJ now has its second "presumptive positive." The patient is at Englewood Health.
Courtney1 I have an idea. Don’t have a market where people sell snakes and bats for food. Try and be a little more civilized
Iamrite Please.
In many parts of the world, people depend on insects for protein.
Walk hours a day for clean water.
Pick corn out of animal dung to eat.
Get over yourself.
Italy spiked up with over 700 new cases today making it second to China; hopefully the measures will kick in soon.
US doctors really don’t have enough access to tests; we still have work to do.
Medicare announcement:
"Your Medicare Part B (Medical Insurance) covers a test to see if you have Coronavirus. This test is covered when your doctor or a health care provider orders it, if you get the test on or after February 4, 2020. You usually pay nothing for Medicare-covered clinical diagnostic laboratory tests. Note: Your provider will need to wait until after April 1, 2020 to submit a claim to Medicare for this test."
Schools are being told to prepare
https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2020/03/nj-approves-remote-school-days-if-coronavirus-forces-closures.html
Uh nationwide cat scans?
And speaking of insurance what about people who have no insurance?
Uh -- what is "nationwide cat scans" supposed to mean.
If you are not sick with symptoms of coronavirus you don't need a CT.
Earlier diagnosis will prevent more spread of the virus.
“This is not a drill,” said Dr. Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, director general of the World Health Organization. “This is not a time for excuses. This is a time for pulling out all the stops.”
Is it "normal" to have Jameson for breakfast, because that's what I'd like about now.
And the lies, divisive talk, and lies begin.
We missed the testing goal of 1m.
Maybe by some.
Maybe by a lot.
It may be broken, it may be not.
The crime is that we don’t know and no one is telling us. Hopefully updates and truth today.
"I have an idea. Don’t have a market where people sell snakes and bats for food. Try and be a little more civilized"
Or don't have 9 year old girls working in factories to make shoes and dresses for American women to try on once then send to Goodwill for a tax deduction.
"And speaking of insurance what about people who have no insurance?"
Who cares about them? Get a job.
I have Medicare. It pays for Cat Scans and Corona virus testing.
Signed, Boomer. User of Socialist Medicine!
(OMNS Mar 3, 2020) The government of Shanghai, China has announced its official recommendation that COVID-19 should be treated with high amounts of intravenous vitamin C. (1) Dosage recommendations vary with severity of illness, from 50 to 200 milligrams per kilogram body weight per day to as much as 200 mg/kg/day.
These dosages are approximately 4,000 to 16,000 mg for an adult, administered by IV.
http://orthomolecular.activehosted.com/index.php?action=social&chash=a8baa56554f96369ab93e4f3bb068c22.146&s=be03d4e77ac6de4dd81b7e1ab67d2fdc
Jefferson republic.. Please vet your sources.. This is basically fake news.. Or rather it is taking real news. As in none of the studies are for the current outbreak. One look at your link and I could tell it was fake.. All it took was a couple of clicks to see that it's manufactured.
I hope the moderator takes down this intentionally misleading information.
Germans buying hampsters?
https://qz.com/1811000/hamsterkauf-germans-austrians-panic-buying-due-to-coronavirus/
djdowd I have Medicare. It pays for Cat Scans and Corona virus testing AND vitamin C!
No coverage for hamsters, however. Have to purchase them on my own dammit.
Signed, Boomer. User of Socialist Medicine!
"As in none of the studies are for the current outbreak. "
Without commenting on the quality of Shanghai clinicians, the following is taken directly from the article. What outbreak does it refer to, if not the "current" one?
An official statement from Xi'an Jiaotong University Second Hospital (2) reads:
"On the afternoon of February 20, 2020, another 4 patients with severe new coronaviral pneumonia recovered from the C10 West Ward of Tongji Hospital. In the past 8 patients have been discharged from hospital. . . [H]igh-dose vitamin C achieved good results in clinical applications. We believe that for patients with severe neonatal pneumonia and critically ill patients, vitamin C treatment should be initiated as soon as possible after admission. . .[E]arly application of large doses of vitamin C can have a strong antioxidant effect, reduce inflammatory responses, and improve endothelial function. . . Numerous studies have shown that the dose of vitamin C has a lot to do with the effect of treatment. . . [H]gh-dose vitamin C can not only improve antiviral levels, but more importantly, can prevent and treat acute lung injury (ALI) and acute respiratory distress (ARDS)."
Well hot damn....guess my morning screwdriver is going to pay off! .... and they all called me an alcoholic ;-)
Thanks Ian, you beat me to it. I DID read the article, I wouldn't have posted it otherwise.
Collateral coronavirus casualties... 5-story quarantine hotel collapses in China.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/07/70-people-trapped-after-hotel-used-for-coronavirus-quarantine-collapses-in-china-reuters.html
Good thing is we will now have in place an online education system for all children. This is our opportunity to shut down the school system once and for all.
Lower my taxes!!!
Signed, Boomer.
P.S. Give me a Trader Joes. I need my fix.
People are crazy. I was just at Big Lots, my husband likes those jugs of caramel popcorn they sell there. Two women bought all the water they had in the store. I commented to them that they must be really thirsty. They said pretty soon there would be no water so they have to get it now and that Walmart was out of water. {{slaps palm to forehead}}
Why do you care what someone does?
Maybe they saw the AWWA advisory about COVID-19 and water supply.
"Wuhan increases patient quarantine to 28 days, since lots of patients are testing positive again after 14 days period."
3wbdwnj Water supply is the absolute last thing I'm worried about with coronavirus... now, BOURBON supply, on the other hand...
It is just nuts. I don't understand the amount of hoarding going on - why water? why toilet paper - it's UNREAL!
Luca It's ok, let them tire themselves out and then go back and get what you need when the stores restock. It's just pent up anxiety from not panic buying for any snow all winter...
Toilet paper fight! These people are crazy!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVHYTdGUAZM
ianimal - You'd understand completely if you saw they each had a couple of jars of Vegemite in their carts.
When containment does not work:
"Italy’s government on Saturday took the extraordinary step of locking down much of the country’s north, restricting movement for about a quarter of the population in regions that serve as the country’s economic engine.
The move represents the most sweeping effort outside China to stop the spread of the coronavirus and is tantamount to sacrificing the Italian economy in the short term to save it from the ravages of the virus in the long term."
I so agree.......so over the top.....not minimizing concern and sensible behavior.....but geesh people
"Westchester NY is showing 82 cases confirmed right now."
0 deaths though. Hopefully it will stay at 0 and people will stop panicking.
Wow, Josh, I haven’t heard that yet but 82 in Westchester is actually quite a few. I’m still in the “probably not a big deal” camp but it does seem to spread very rapidly and that is certainly cause for concern. Hopefully those people self-quarantine and it doesn’t get too out of control. Anyone know if they’re close to a vaccine/cure?
Consigliere - I heard Governor Cuomo on TV this morning. He was talking about Westchester. Apparently, the original person with the virus attended a few large gatherings before knowing he/she was ill. This would certainly explain the high number of cases there.
Regarding the vaccine, the experts say a year would be the earliest. However, therapeutics can be available in a few months.
The important thing here is to stop panicking. Think of how many people get the flu vaccine every year and still get the flu. Think of how many people don't get the flu vaccine and don't contract it.
474 cases of this in a country of over 340,000,000 is a drop in the bucket. Perspective is important.
From the FB page of Dr. Abdu Sharkawy who is a Dr. in Toronto. Please share this.
https://www.facebook.com/abdu.sharkawy/posts/2809958409125474
I'm a doctor and an Infectious Diseases Specialist. I've been at this for more than 20 years seeing sick patients on a daily basis. I have worked in inner city hospitals and in the poorest slums of Africa. HIV-AIDS, Hepatitis,TB, SARS, Measles, Shingles, Whooping cough, Diphtheria...there is little I haven't been exposed to in my profession. And with notable exception of SARS, very little has left me feeling vulnerable, overwhelmed or downright scared.
I am not scared of Covid-19. I am concerned about the implications of a novel infectious agent that has spread the world over and continues to find new footholds in different soil. I am rightly concerned for the welfare of those who are elderly, in frail health or disenfranchised who stand to suffer mostly, and disproportionately, at the hands of this new scourge. But I am not scared of Covid-19.
What I am scared about is the loss of reason and wave of fear that has induced the masses of society into a spellbinding spiral of panic, stockpiling obscene quantities of anything that could fill a bomb shelter adequately in a post-apocalyptic world. I am scared of the N95 masks that are stolen from hospitals and urgent care clinics where they are actually needed for front line healthcare providers and instead are being donned in airports, malls, and coffee lounges, perpetuating even more fear and suspicion of others. I am scared that our hospitals will be overwhelmed with anyone who thinks they " probably don't have it but may as well get checked out no matter what because you just never know..." and those with heart failure, emphysema, pneumonia and strokes will pay the price for overfilled ER waiting rooms with only so many doctors and nurses to assess.
I am scared that travel restrictions will become so far reaching that weddings will be canceled, graduations missed and family reunions will not materialize. And well, even that big party called the Olympic Games...that could be kyboshed too. Can you even
imagine?
I'm scared those same epidemic fears will limit trade, harm partnerships in multiple sectors, business and otherwise and ultimately culminate in a global recession.
But mostly, I'm scared about what message we are telling our kids when faced with a threat. Instead of reason, rationality, openmindedness and altruism, we are telling them to panic, be fearful, suspicious, reactionary and self-interested.
Covid-19 is nowhere near over. It will be coming to a city, a hospital, a friend, even a family member near you at some point. Expect it. Stop waiting to be surprised further. The fact is the virus itself will not likely do much harm when it arrives. But our own behaviors and "fight for yourself above all else" attitude could prove disastrous.
I implore you all. Temper fear with reason, panic with patience and uncertainty with education. We have an opportunity to learn a great deal about health hygiene and limiting the spread of innumerable transmissible diseases in our society. Let's meet this challenge together in the best spirit of compassion for others, patience, and above all, an unfailing effort to seek truth, facts and knowledge as opposed to conjecture, speculation and catastrophizing.
Facts not fear. Clean hands. Open hearts.
Our children will thank us for it.
No we shouldn't panic. But the flu, vaccines, and its rates of contact, infection, and mortality are completely different from COVID-19. The flu has been around for a long time and mutates rapidly so we have to keep chasing it. Because it's so wide spread there is lots of immunity in the population. COVID-19 is new so there's no current immunity, and no vaccines to increase that immunity. The COVID-19 infection rate is much higher and it's more deadly.
Cautious concern is good, wild panic is not. So follow things like the CDC web pages, and Johns Hopkins who seem to be on top of it. Watch the science so we know what to do and what not.
From a new NJ.com article:
Persichilli noted an additional 27 New Jersey people are currently under investigation in the following counties: nine in Bergen, one in Camden, two in Cumberland, three in Essex, two in Hunterdon, two in Middlesex, four in Monmouth, three in Union and one in Sussex.
https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2020/03/2-new-coronavirus-cases-confirmed-in-nj-now-6-in-total-everything-we-know.html
Greg The run isn't just on TP and isn't just in California. Most urban and suburban areas are experiencing that - check local news programs. Utah, Illinois, Georgia, Texas - it's even hit Vancouver and Toronto. Besides the TP, water, and hand sanitizer there's a huge shortage of cold and allergy medicines. No one knows if those are even going to help if you are infected.
Sorry GC
Ever hear of the Spanish flu?... it also originated in China and killed millions... its mostly vulnerable old people dying with this thing...right now it mostly scare tactics
Well, then, if it’s just older vulnerable people at risk....then we need some more jokes and gallows humor. Have a heart, we are all in this together, young, old, healthy, and infirm.
Excellent column by the Toronto doctor. I am happy to see many more people following the hygiene tips for not spreading ANY virus/illness regardless of Corona. Maybe this scare will finally get people to realize they should be practicing good hand washing, do not touch face and cover your coughs and sneezes into your elbow NOT hand! These are important practices every time we are in cold/flu/virus season.
sportsfan My biggest issue is not the death rate (yet)...
But looking at other countries as well and see how small the recovery numbers are.
Confirmed / Recovered-
Italy 7375 / 622
South Korea 7314 / 118
France 1126 / 12
Germany 1040 / 18
Spain 673 / 30
U.S. 534 / 8 - only 8 recovered.
So even if it isn't killing high numbers (yet) it certainly appears the majority of people are staying sick!
This doesn't appear to be 'mild cold' for a few days and then back to normal life.
But how are they following up to get the recovered numbers? Are they calling people after they leave the hospital? And how many people are picking up the phone to report that they are feeling well again? And how many of the confirmed cases are people who went to urgent care or their Dr, went home and then there was no follow up or they did not follow directions for self reporting?
I share your concern, Josh, but they also aren't exactly releasing the details of what the follow up is like.
I would hope they don't test at a hospital, confirm contagion and then just let them walk out the door.
Bug3
There's no evidence that the Spanish Flu originated in China. While it came back to the US with our troops in World War I and indeed there was a heavy loss of life in WWI due to it, I have seen a theory that it may have even originated in Kansas, near one of the training camps and been passed onto soldiers headed for the European battlefields, spreading it there, then many coming back here with it. The origins are still muddy on that one, though a camp in France and the Kansas location are the main contenders so far. The Wikipedia article mentions why it was called the "Spanish" Flu and mentions "speculation", only based on the fact that they had a mild flu season there that year, and as the article states it presumes that the Chinese somehow had developed an immunity to it through constant exposure. Somewhat like smallpox in Europe as compared to the complete lack of immunity the Indigenous Americans had to it here. The assertion of Claude Hannoun that it started in China and came to Europe with Chinese workers, then mutated in Boston and went back then to Europe, didn't fit the time line of infection and was discounted:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/1918-pandemic-h1n1.html
This is a link from the first link which would likely be exceptionally interesting to science nerds and medical personnel:
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/reconstruction-1918-virus.html
Admittedly, most of our current flus DO originate in China, due to the lack of sanitary measures in place for the people in areas dealing with raising pork and chicken, etc while living in such close proximity to the animals. Of course there are also markets dealing in bats, which being mammals can also easily pass on things to the humans involved in collecting and preparing them.
Phil D. Phil
Depends who you ask..I got my info from history channel...not thats its any better than wikipedia
More recently, experts have proposed a third hypothesis: The Spanish flu originated somewhere in northern China in late 1917 and swiftly moved to western Europe with the 140,000 Chinese laborers the French and British governments recruited to perform manual labor to free up troops for wartime duty.May 22, 2018
https://www.history.com › news › w...
Spanish Flu: Origins and Facts - HISTORY
Bug3
That's " The assertion of Claude Hannoun that it started in China and came to Europe with Chinese workers, then mutated in Boston and went back then to Europe, didn't fit the time line of infection and was discounted:" that I mentioned from the Wikipedia article. Besides the Chinese Medical Association investigated the later theory you mention, as mentioned in the Wiki article:
"In 2014, historian Mark Humphries argued that the mobilization of 96,000 Chinese laborers to work behind the British and French lines might have been the source of the pandemic. Humphries, of the Memorial University of Newfoundland in St. John's, based his conclusions on newly unearthed records. He found archival evidence that a respiratory illness that struck northern China in November 1917 was identified a year later by Chinese health officials as identical to the Spanish flu.[37][38] A report published in 2016 in the Journal of the Chinese Medical Association found no evidence that the 1918 virus was imported to Europe via Chinese and Southeast Asian soldiers and workers. It found evidence that the virus had been circulating in the European armies for months and possibly years before the 1918 pandemic.[39]"
Of course it also mentions that "Political scientist Andrew Price-Smith published data from the Austrian archives suggesting the influenza had earlier origins, beginning in Austria in early 1917.[36]" That predates even the Chinese flu identified late 1917 that they say resembled the so-called "Spanish Flu".
So as I said, nobody knows where and exactly when the Spanish Flu originated and it's unfair to pin that one on China without evidence, though of course most of the newer stuff does originate from there, as I mentioned earlier. I mean Kansas, France, China, Austria, it's a role of the dice and we may never know where the Spanish Flu actually started. In my family history research I've found a number of ancestors that died in the epidemic, including one of my Great-Grandmothers, so I have a bit of a vested interest in the matter.
Holly Gibney confirmed that it started at an Army base in Kansas, for what it's worth
Animal...some people don't watch the Outsider. May I suggest r/theoutsider. Or start a new thread.
NovelCov19 Holly Gibney fan here too Ian! Great series, even if it departed from the book. I enjoyed both! If she said Kansas, I'd have to agree, LOL.
Not for nothing but if you watch the ABC interview with Ben Carson.. A neurosurgeon and spokesman for El presidente. You will see a man who.. One I would ask dude are you high.. And also.. He asked the American public educate themselves on how viruses work and make educated decisions on their own health.. This seriously happened. We are on our are own until they bring the hammer down.
Chad, daddy government is not there to tuck you in at night and to run your head and tell you everything is ok? How will you survive???? Lol
Really? So this is not a federal issue demanding a federal response? No defense of the nation here?
Maybe we should change the name of this thread. I just read that calling it the Wuhan Virus is racist. Sigh....
And calling it the Corona virus is... beerist.
The apparently PC term being used is Covid-19 for short (2019 novel corona virus).
Don't be racist. Or beerist.
In 2015, WHO adopted the use of non-geographical disease naming to avoid stigmatizing ground zero locations. That’s the reason. This brew-ha-ha (for the beerists out there ;-) was initiated by an Arizona Congressman who apparently was too stupid to know about WHO’s naming convention, too lazy to read about it and then decided to push back when called on it. Sometimes it’s just seems unfair to broad brush an entire region because of a happening there. One might think a non-racist knowing Oxford’s history might sympathize with that. No region should be marked for life for a single act. Or should it? Maybe we should, keeps home values down.
It is what it is and it really should not be a big deal. Until the Aracisonian just had to push back. Then the deal gets bigger. Just does not seem to be the place to take a stand. Perhaps we should say: there for the grace of God.... I say, yes, change the thread name, why stigmatize Hackettstown Life. It’s simple enough. Or take a stand; not sure for what though.
When does the world start to hold China accountable for this disaster? Literally - EVERYONE in the world is/will be impacted, indirectly/directly, in some fashion. Beyond the obvious health issues, industries are getting crushed. Effects of this will linger long after the immediate health crisis is mitigated.
https://nypost.com/2020/03/09/coronavirus-in-ny-head-of-port-authority-rick-cotton-has-coronavirus/
Senior Leadership at the Port Authority have been affected by the virus.... considering that they manage the airports, bus terminals, some of the ports, ferry terminals, it's not surprising, but it is concerning.
HurricaneF WestChester has 98 confirmed.. close enough in proximity to be well within degrees of separation.
'What a surprise' that won't help us now but should be part of the future to prevent a repeat.
Great spring day. Sitting on my back porch and it was amazingly quiet. Then I realized that there was not the usual airplane traffic. Very few commercial airliners flying.
Indie Entirety of Italy now under quarantine; you can't go out, no sporting events, no nightlife. Altho he's not crystal clear about air travel... I'd like to see the details, as "justify themselves" doesn't mean much... I mean, a "temporary" visitor flying in (tourist) won't have to "justify themselves"?? And what about on their way OUT???
"Passengers departing on flights, except temporary visitors, will have to justify themselves, as will all those arriving by plane.
There are controls at train stations to check temperatures.
Cruise ships are forbidden to dock at various ports."
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-51810673
“I just read that calling it the Wuhan Virus is racist.”
I prefer to call it “Kung Flu”...
Mark Mc. Obviously it’s too late to change the course of this thing. My point is China should make financial restitution to the rest of the world. Cancel our debt for each dollar that we spend to fight this thing. Including the stimulation package that is being planned. This is not panic - it’s reality - look at you 401K and IRAs. Something needs to done to stop the slide.
“Literally - EVERYONE in the world is/will be impacted, indirectly/directly, in some fashion.”
Maybe companies won’t put all their eggs in the Chinese basket after this is over...
Maybe we can’t stop it. Certainly we can’t if we don’t test. That ship has left.
Prayer is most certainly our best hope.
We, as men, could help God and still deaden or lower the curve, the ramp, if we test, if we follow the strict measures of China and SKorea. Or we can be like Italy...... They are still spiking 1,200 and 1,800 cases a day up from 600 previously.
Hackettstown basically will test after you really have it. With that process, there’s a good chance we could overwhelm the system pretty quick. A slow down via early testing might help.
Or some nice warm most weather, early summer.
"Prayer is most certainly our best hope."
That and 5 cents will still only get you a piece of Bazooka. Just sayin'.
The coronavirus.gov site is the same one that has been up for over a month. They did not make today especially for us. It is part of the cdc site always has been. It does however have good information regarding limiting the spread. Not that this is the government misleading us but at the same time I would like to see them do more along the lines of what they have done for us today.
On the bright side it looks like free money is coming our way.. And also for Wall Street... Who doesn't need it but whatever. How we will pay for it? God only knows.
Gov. Phil Murphy has declared a state of emergency. The law governing a state of emergency — frequently used in anticipation of a snowstorm or hurricane — typically has little direct impact on the state’s residents. Governors use the law to help organize and distribute money, staffing and other resources to communities affected by the event.
I listened to the press conference, then got down on my knees and prayed. We won’t get fooled again.....
Chad, if you think the stimulus is coming your way, I have a 2018 middle class tax plan to sell you ;-). And a bridge. And some N95 masks, limited quantity. But you can’t have my bonds, they be ,crankin, not quite as super as yesterday....guess there was some profit taking.
We can send What A Surprise to China to beg for stimulus money .....or just write down our debt to China and crash the world. That’s been suggested a number of times since 2017. Or just print it, jump the debt a couple more trillion and potentially devalue everything we own.... We’re in a economic box folks, not many tools in the box, this tax plan for the rich ran up quite a bills and all the returns just went up in smoke. Prayer might work.
It’s the sensationalism and panic that will effect us. Our economy, our resources and our everyday living will be greatly compromised.
People are the problem not the virus.
And this is what has become of us now. Diverting planes for people with allergies. Lots of stuff will be blooming soon, please don't panic.
https://krdo.com/news/local-news/2020/03/09/passenger-reaction-to-sneezing-person-causes-plane-to-divert-to-denver/
Just heard one of the pediatric office in Hackettstown closed as precautionary cause of virus.
Is the parade still going on as scheduled??
hackmom https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2020/03/08/dr-francis-boyle-bioterrorism.aspx?cid_source=dnl&cid_medium=email&cid_content=art1HL&cid=20200308Z1&et_cid=DM478049&et_rid=825472197
interesting reading......
jrn 
Baci’s Mom 
stephen Actually, it's racist politics. However, it has guaranteed that I will never set foot in Soups On Main even if they were giving the soup away.
Any comments to add on Oregano capsules or drops With this virus?
I had a “plain cold” not long ago and the capsules worked amazingly well.
Spring fever State health officials on Tuesday announced the first coronavirus death in New Jersey as a 69-year-old man from Bergen County,
Whatever it is, it is certainly a very good piece of extremely bad taste just to make a buck. Nope --- off my list.
More info on the the gentleman who passed away. https://www.northjersey.com/story/news/new-jersey/2020/03/10/nj-coronavirus-cases-tuesday-state-total/5009352002/
Jrsemom That does seem racist and political of Soups on Main. Never been there and after that, I won't be. It seems very unnecessary to post that. It's in bad taste. (the ad, not their soup, since I've never had it)
spring fever -- I use oil of oregano tincture and it works. It kills virus so maybe it would work for corona. It works for regular flu & colds.
I just read their FB page at Soups and they've posted a few this afternoon. Way to ruin your business by posting links, YouTube videos, and theories. Always keep your own personal beliefs out of your business. This is sad to me. Stick to soup and your own goods. To me that is a nail in the coffin for ever going there.
Some of their soups are tasty, but so expensive! And politics should stay far away from my food. Just remind people that your food is good and we can pay "hands free" that in and of itself is enough.
And if you read their page there's even more posts about the coronavirus that belong on a PERSONAL or POLITICAL page.
Calico,
Doesn’t refer to Chinese government.
Refers to Chinese.
We “fight back” by not patronizing their establishments.
“Hands Free” payment infers that Chinese establishments are unhealthy environments.
Very nasty of Soups on Main.
Major, major error in judgment.
Will not be a customer.
We really should change the thread title. Small steps, small change, good to be hip. Small change to change. Why stigmatize ourselves.
I find it weird that the best updates come from Al Jazeera. You get all the counts, the action, with minimal words. Just like me :-). Not. I have stopped using US news, not sure what there problem is.
I hope the CPACers are tracing forwards/backwards; sounds horrific. And you know Trump is tested, come on.....
Ok- think we have good news. S Korea has been plateauing for five days for new cases but now looks like they have turned the corner and are coming down. Maybe a few more days to lock the trend line but they are making good noises.
That’s two countries with workable plans.
And Italy to show what happens when you wait
In the immortal words on Mickey, Rocky II, “what are we waiting for?” We can see what to do, the results, and how long it takes, Or we can be Italy, worse yet Iran......
Their posts and claims and sources are beyond phony -check it out for yourself. I suspect, based on comments on their fb page, that they won't be around much longer...........nor should they be
I was shocked at how well the capsules worked from Amazon. I have an order in to the company you wrote about a long time ago. Won’t mention the name because I’m not sure we can promote a product or company on here...but so far haven’t received the order. Are they slow to deliver? Maybe demand is high? Getting the drops and capsules for family members too. Thank you for mentioning this years ago!
spring fever -- I get the tincture from the health food store in Newton -- Sussex County Food Co-op. They sell to the public. Maybe Hackettstown health food store on Moore St has it.
"Calico,
Doesn’t refer to Chinese government.
Refers to Chinese.
We “fight back” by not patronizing their establishments.
“Hands Free” payment infers that Chinese establishments are unhealthy environments.
Very nasty of Soups on Main.
Major, major error in judgment.
Will not be a customer."
Where in that screen shot does it say to not patronize Chinese establishments in the US? I take it as they want people to still patronize businesses instead of staying home and hurting the economy more. They are blaming the Chinese government for letting this virus get out of control.
IMO it's never a wise move to politicize a business. But I'm still not getting the racist thing.
A poorly worded joke about the virus being a trade war offensive and hands free probably refers to not having to exchange money with your hands.
If you cry racism make sure you know what the definition of the word is, and get out today and buy toilet paper.
Are some of you actually having sympathy for the Communist Chinese government? You are aware they are now denying all knowledge of this starting there. Call it what you want — I’m pissed at them, and I don’t see that feeling changing anytime soon. Had they been more forthright sooner, more countries could have blocked incoming travelers. I sure hope the doom and gloom health concerns are overblown, but it’s getting tougher to remain optimistic by the day.
The reference to the trade war is a pretty clear indicator that the post was directed at the Chinese government and not local restaurants operated by Chinese-Americans. Some people are extremely challenged when it comes to contextual nuance.
It's NOT just the one post from Soups that was posted here. They have a few more posted on their FB page with links and YouTube videos and a bunch of what seems like theories, political crap, and so on. To me, that's a huge red flag for business. You're a restaurant, not a blog for politics. No thanks.
Doesn’t the ad allude to China doing this virus on purpose as part of the trade war? The guy is whack. Not sure I would trust what he puts in his soup. Certainly wouldn’t if I was Asian. Wonder how he feels about Latinos; probably thinks they’re stealing soup jobs. Or Canadians.... Seems bitter.
Funny that many are saying that they will not patronize the establishment have never patronized the establishment.
They must be racist as I saw only White Bean soup in the Facebook post and not Black Bean soup, lol.
Meanwhile Gov Cuomo is calling up the National Guard for deployment to New Rochelle.
This leaped out at me, "common sacrifice to safeguard the country’s elderly population and to save the health system from collapse"
From NYT:
Italy got the message.
On the first day of Europe’s first nationwide restriction on movement and public gatherings to stem the rampant spread of the coronavirus, Italians steered clear of their streets, shops, churches and soccer fields.
They obeyed the government’s “I Stay Home” decree, announced on Monday night by Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte with a plea for common sacrifice to safeguard the country’s elderly population and to save the health system from collapse.
My sons baseball team is on the road. What's this idiot governor in NY going to keep them from coming back....
2 days ago I posted-
U.S. 534 / 8 - only 8 recovered.
And today we are at-
U.S. 971 / 8 - still only 8 recovered.
As I mentioned above- pay attention to the recovered #'s and % rates.
This is not just a common cold, not 'just the flu'.
My guess is treatment may be keeping people alive- but who knows by what small thread?
For how long?
There are only so many spots at the hospital. Only so many artificial lung machines.
Just had an argument with my wife- as she has the option to work from home, but she isn't taking this seriously.
She said 'well we might as well get it now so we can get over it before everyone else gets it".
She also went out twice from her work to the shop to grab a snack today (lunch and dinner as she has a deadline and worked late).
I explained to her- the guy at the shop might have seen 100 customers today, and every day...and not show symptoms for a week or 2, while being contagious all the while.
People are brushing this off in some brazen attempt of bravery (Ostrich head in sand in my opinion)... but it has the exact opposite effect- *many* more at risk, many more exposed and infected.
@Josh - as we get deeper into this, I'm starting to change my opinion and get concerned about the lack of recovery numbers. What's also an issue is we have no idea how many people have it as there are not nearly enough tests to go around and not everyone will seek medical treatment. We also do not know the long term effects this could have on people's health. I would HAPPILY take a work from home option.
Thanks for posting those video links. They were informative and gave me good insight to how bad this could be.
Hopeful Mainstream media finally reporting death toll could be a lot lower than being reported... and explains why. Some people have been saying this all along, this is the 1st time I've seen the MSM finally say it
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/early-mortality-rates-covid-19-misleading-experts/story?id=69477312
An Italian doctor describes what is really going on. The medical community deserves our deepest respect during this outbreak.
https://nypost.com/2020/03/10/italian-doctor-at-heart-of-illness-shares-chilling-coronavirus-thoughts/
Coronavirus conference canceled due to coronavirus. OMG, my head hurts.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-10/coronavirus-conference-gets-canceled-because-of-coronavirus
There are people that have survived.
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia-51714162/how-i-recovered-from-coronavirus-and-isolation
CJ. As of today, they've eliminated the salad bar in the cafeteria at my work place. Dang!
This has inspired me to pick up the unabridged version of The Stand on Audible... 48 hours of listening pleasure, lol.
Chancellor Angela Merkel said on Wednesday that the coronavirus was likely to infect about two-thirds of the German population.
“Given a virus for which there is no immunity and no immunization, we have to understand that many people will be infected, the consensus among experts is that 60 to 70 percent of the population will be infected,” she said.
I think I was sixteen when I read that book, and I'm not going to say how many years have passed. I still can't get that out of my head.
To sum up the important parts from the Italian doctor article above-
“I will therefore try to convey to people far from our reality what we are living in........
the dangerousness of what is happening
now that need for beds has arrived
The doctor urged people not to describe Covid-19 as a bad case of the flu.
“Cases are multiplying, Suddenly the E.R. is collapsing.”
Describing every available ventilator as “gold,” Macchini said the doctors and nurses working at his side are exhausted.
Nurses with tears in their eyes because we can’t save everyone, and the vital parameters of several patients at the same time reveal an already marked destiny.
Macchini noted that some of his colleagues have become infected themselves and then infected their relatives who “are already struggling between life and death.”.
doctors are forced to choose whom to treat on the basis of their chances of survival.
“We can’t attempt miracles. It’s the reality,”
Re: The Stand
It's ironic that CBS All Access has chosen this year to release their The Stand miniseries later this year . It promises a completely different ending than the book with Alexander Skarsgard as Randall Flagg , Amber Heard as Nadine Cross , Whoopi Goldberg as Mother Abigail , and Marilyn Manson as Trashcan Man . Given what is happening now I wouldn't be surprised if they don't release it at all this year .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Stand_(upcoming_miniseries)
97XBAM "Whoopi Goldberg as Mother Abigail"
Welp, guess I won't be watching it this time around.
I also thought that casting for Nadine was spot on , Skarsgard as Flagg too . Hard to believe anyone could be a better Tom Cullen than in the 1994 miniseries . M-O-O-N that spells Bill Fagerbakke !
https://www.google.com/search?q=tom+cullen+the+stand&tbm=isch&hl=en&ved=2ahUKEwit-4La95LoAhVHFt8KHaUQCZcQBXoECAEQJg&biw=1393&bih=689
Funny, the only two people I ever heard of in that cast are Whoopi and Marilyn. Obviously, I don't watch many movies or TV shows. LOL
As we enter the pandemic phase for this virus, I still find Al Jazeera has the best updates without all the scare tactics.
China’s rates are still falling and now it does appear that South Korea rates are falling as well. They have a plan, it calls for massive testing, and many restrictions. Italy, on the other hand, waited, and their rates are still skyrocketing. Iran screwed the pooch and who knows there.
In the US, we can still win. We still do not have enough to testing kits or massive testing and states like New Jersey are literally begging the federal government for kits. Basically, you will only get tested if you are severely ill. Hopefully, we will catch up soon, weather will be on our side, we will listen to quarantines and recommendations not to gather. Many may be put out by restrictions, but please remember, if we do this right we can be talking about a 1 to 2 month disruption, not the end of life as we know it. Or, we will follow the path that Italy is on. Bummer.
Maybe it’s still a nothing burger, but I think we all should be prudent at least for a couple of weeks as it unfolds here.
Calico, saving you from salad tongs is useless as you all breathe on each other at thelunch table. Sorry.
SRite has free pickup service for rest of week. Not Mansfield though. Hopefully, a light will turn on and everyone will offer.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-secrecy-exclusive/exclusive-white-house-told-federal-health-agency-to-classify-coronavirus-deliberations-sources-idUSKBN20Y2LM
This one is going to go down very well.
The story did not say that the numbers are being withheld; the story did not say that even information is being withheld; what I think the story indicated was that the back n forth discussion during the meetings was being withheld. Undoubtedly, their theory is that such discussions would cause unnecessary panic within our public. As in I guess we cannot handle the truth of the discussions which undoubtably includes hawks, doves, and everything else. It’s a bad theory but you can understand where they’re coming from. They think we need to be shielded.
What we need is status, a plan, and testing, testing, testing. We should be on a war footing.
"WHO declared a pandemic, definitely no joke."
Interesting... yet they did not declare the flu, which has already killed far more people just this season alone, a pandemic. Hmm.....
It's about percentages, more people got the flu than COVID-19.... so far. In numbers, flu killed more people but in percentages COVID-19 has killed more, which means the more people get it the more people will die proportionately so it could surpass the flu in numbers as well if it gets out of control.
Regarding the "Recovered" number:
About 80 percent of people in China, the epicenter of the outbreak, have recovered from the virus. Recovery percentages vary depending on the country and in the United States, where there have been 1,039 cases, the situation might appear bleak because only eight people have been reported as recovered and 29 have died.
This puts America's recovery rate below 1 percent, but Jennifer Nuzzo, a senior scholar at the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security, told The Hill multiple factors can skew the data. In the U.S., the virus spread rapidly through a nursing and rehabilitation facility and many of the deaths in Washington involved people who were considered high-risk because they were over the age of 60 or had underlying conditions.
Another factor Nuzzo considers when looking at the numbers is the likelihood mild cases aren't being factored into the total. For many people, the virus will cause symptoms in line with a cold or the flu, so those people may not go to the doctor or ever get tested.
https://www.newsweek.com/coronavirus-update-recovery-66000-global-johns-hopkins-tracker-1491725
Rich Also, regarding the Fatality Rate:
"It's possible that COVID-19 isn’t as fatal as most people think. And stockpiling hand sanitizer and masks could hurt people who are truly at risk: the elderly and those with weak immune systems."
"While some studies peg the death rate to 3.4%, experts expect to see this rate decrease as the health care system starts finding milder cases."
"Because only the sickest people are showing up at hospitals, this group is likely over-represented among the full population of people who have COVID-19, according to Faust. Most COVID-19 cases are mild, and many individuals will never even see a health care provider to be tested."
"Right now, death rate estimates vary per country. The best estimates for South Korea put COVID-19's fatality rate at 0.6%, and a recent study released on the death the rate in China -- but outside hard-hit Wuhan -- hovered just above that, at 0.7%."
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/early-mortality-rates-covid-19-misleading-experts/story?id=69477312
Bluegill It's official.... no spectators for the entirety of March Madness.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/11/us/march-madness-no-fans-spt-trnd/index.html
What a joke this whole thing is.... people are panicking over 28 dead and less than 2000 infected in a country of 325 million people.... And I'm guess all the dead were already unhealthy and in their twilight years.... Yea lets destroy our economy over that....
Rich- nothing what you just wrote has anything to do with recovered!
Sure- only sicker people may be going to get tested- and that may skew the death rate higher. But that is probably true with any sickness.
If anything the 'confirmed' number is the low number with many many more actually infected and contagious- because exactly as you said, they are not being tested, blowing it off, etc. Those are the people next to you in all the places you are at- or they were there an hour or two before you and touched that door handle, used that pen, hand you back your credit card.
Now up to 1276 confirmed- still only 8 recovered.
As Italy says- "every available ventilator is gold".
Mets- if you think "unhealthy and in their twilight years." then you aren't paying any attention whatsoever.
I really hope you are right Mets.
But I’m gonna plan as if you are not.
Our lack of testing stands to hide severity until we are really in it with hot spots and radiating extensions.
It’s already a record breaking flu death year before Covid-19 hits. We are nowhere as prepared as SKorea and China. We have millions of uninsured.
Frankly, only the weather can end this.
And to minimize the lives of our older citizens with other ailments seems very cruel.
Re: recovered. I don’t even look. I am focused on new cases. SKorea down - think in less than 2 months. China down - about 2 months. Italy - still growing, probably will exceed 2 months and is an older country, so Mets views on the old probably a little more unpopular there. And remember, we don’t have the testing nor the rigid policies in place of SK and China so our risk of spinning out of control is real. I really hope Mets is right, but along with prayer and hope, I would like to see the action of man as well.
Wish we could modernize this thread’s name. Really does the town and site a disservice.
Lucky me, I get to enjoy several busy airports next week... another trip to Arizona for work.
Josh, the entire first two paragraphs on that post I quoted from Newsweek discuss the recovery numbers. How you can say that nothing from what I quoted deals with recovery numbers is bizarre, since that is the whole reason for the article.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/11/health/coronavirus-first-responders-invs/index.html
When greeting and organizing people from China and Japan a month ago.. Hhs staff was given paper masks you would get at home depot.. They would go from quarantine.. Straight to Starbucks. Then off to alcatraz to see the sights.
When they brought up the issues to their superiors.. They were offered other positions..
This is chilling.. If even one of these people contracted the covid-19.. They could have spread it to so many people.
It's like they are fumbling around in the dark.. And yet the US has learned from past mistakes and had the tools to not repeat them.. And still they did.
Do you really think we are nowhere as ready as China? Yea, let’s change the name of the thread because we can’t call it what is is “Chinese/Wuhan Coronavirus. Funny how all the media were calling it that until China got upset about it. Then we all became racists according to all those Social Justice Warriors. Maybe we should call it the Far East Coronavirus similar to MERS (Middle East Respiratory Syndrome).
Kb2755 it was the world health organization who changed the name.. In an effort to remove the stigma of a country of origin.. These things pop up. Mother nature literally just cranks them out whenever she wants to. That's not hippie talk.. It's just the way it has always been.
And also we are not ready.. Chinese culture is different from ours.. It is more organized. They have been going strong for thousands of years.. And they have documented all of it. And to tell the truth. It is a boring read. Western civilization is what... Barely 2000 years old.. And I mean with true connectivity.
That being said. We live in America. We are not ready for it. If you were told to stay at home for 2 weeks by the government.. Would you? Probably not. No one would. But the Chinese did it. It had to be reinforced, yes, but we as Americans are not prepared for that. This is a pandemic.. Which sort of puts us in like medieval times. This thing is going to circulate.. Move around.. kill some people.. Leave a lot unscathed.
We need to mitigate the situation and that means draconian measures. Trust me there are not enough ventilators in the US to save the people who will be affected. There are not enough medical staff to even begin to help.
It's up to us as a country to pull together.. Slow the spread, so the medical system has a fighting chance.
WHO convention since 2015 I think is to avoid stigmatizing geographical names because they are stigmatizing. It’s a choice.
And yes, according to the facts, we are nowhere as ready as China.
Two minutes in.. He can barely talk.. See the left eye all closed? This downer trump.. He should have done half an adderal
Umm, that would be his right eye.
Travel from Europe banned for 30 days, effective this Friday.
Umm, did you ever think that the President might be exhausted? I'm exhausted by all this Corona crap and I'm not trying to run a country.
Sorry Not Chad wolf, but if you believe China has documented all of it, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you for real cheap. I agree they have a different culture but remember they also govern with fear and gestapo tactics ( did I really say that?) at times. Recall how they were removing suspected infected people from their homes but stopped as they did not have the appropriate facilities at the time to handle them. Also, the Doctor who issued the warning to the government but was silenced and is now dead of the disease. The only info coming out of China is government controlled. That’s how Communists are. Ask the people in Hong Kong how they feel about the government.
Again, under control in 2 months: WHO confirmed.
Got us DNA sequencing in days.
Built special hospitals in weeks.
Massive testing
Massive quarantines.
What is our plan? How do we compare to this?
Kb2275.. I was speaking on Chinese civilization as a whole... As in the thousands of years it has existed. The current political situation is just a blip. You are not wrong o. What you said.. But you didn't actually read what I wrote.
On the side where is Chad wolf.. He is in charge of Homeland security.. Where is that guy?
Trump is still pushing the payroll tax.. That's like 20 bucks.. Max in your pocket a week.. And only if you are working. That is. Ot going to be enough to bump our economy.. Which is entirely consumer based.
Tom Hanks, Rita Wilson Test Positive for Coronavirus
https://variety.com/2020/film/news/tom-hanks-rita-wilson-coronavirus-1203531498/?fbclid=IwAR1fnQwlU3LsZurncztMIDsFv_AmjmFaoQAziwSSFkDOpnr6CZXy7d8Rexc&fbclid=IwAR3-IZ_RbWBz-T9vLhMUadtUnO6Ggi3ZHUVC1qIJGfgag4FKlgvf2hQfHE8&fbclid=IwAR2pKqr7NMIA7ihB8Sr78M2h6dP15jP3ctVphO7cSyvI8LkLQrQexdI7zh0
LeRoi Grimaces @Strangerdanger
Hopes and prayers. I don't want the government interfering with my health decisions.
There are many on both sides that say that suspending the payroll tax is a mistake, myself included. You are right you need to be working to get any benefit. Where would you spend that 20 bucks? Many people are choosing to stay home and not go out and eat at restaurants. Maybe you could order some hand sanitizer from Amazon from the comfort of you home. That being said, this is an excerpt from a NY Times article dated March 7th and updated today. Link to article below.
At the moment we are focused on the tip of the iceberg,” said David Hui, the director of the Stanley Ho Center for Emerging Infectious Diseases at the Chinese University of Hong Kong.
The ruling Communist Party hails the slowdown of the outbreak as a sign of the superiority of its authoritarian, top-down political system that gives officials nearly unchecked power. But its heavy-handed measures are testing the patience of its citizens, many of whom think such a clampdown could have been avoided if officials had not first hid the scale of the outbreak and silenced whistle-blowers.
The impact of the restrictions has been felt most acutely in Hubei, where 56 million people have been effectively penned in since January. For more than five weeks, the typically bustling hub of universities, commerce and transportation has been transformed into a collection of ghost towns as the virus has ravaged communities, ensnared entire families and infected thousands of medical workers.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/07/world/asia/china-coronavirus-cost.html
@JustTheFlu me either but this is not "just the flu". It's a new virus that the experts don't fully understand yet that is VERY contagious. I sincerely hope you and your family are all in perfect health bc there are immunocompromised people who I love and care about deeply who, based on the data we have right now, will not fare well if they catch this OR the flu for that matter.
At what point is it irresponsible for government to NOT step in? People are unknowingly spreading this as you're contagious before you are symptomatic. The only hope to slow this down is social distancing and hopefully we don't need the government to step in and enforce that but just look at Italy. I didn't think that would happen in a Western country in this day and age.
"Umm, did you ever think that the President might be exhausted?"
Yeah, it must be exhausting giving a 10 minute speech where you contradict all the baloney you have said over the past weeks.
"Umm, did you ever think that the President might be exhausted?"
At some point of the next whatever years it will come out that he is a drug addict. Not opiods.. Though maybe.. But just regular over the counter Amp ups.
Just look at the past four years.. From campaign to presidency.. Some might say manic.. Some might say.. Awww he is older and his mental abilities are waning.. But if you have ever been around addicts you have to consider the strong possibility that the dude is on a regime of uppers and downers.
Personally.. I do a few bourbon.. Cigarettes and coffee. I'm an addict. I know it. But I don't wake up hung over... I do the things I need to do. I work in the restaurant industry and I don't tolerate it where I work. As in don't drink at work.. Or let anyone do it.
This guy.. IS Up! or he is down.. The squinty left eye.. Is when he is down. Glasses would probably solve that one. The sniffing? It's a sure sign. He has been against the opiod epidemic from the start.. But he is attached to it.. Maybe. Heh?
In the end he is probably exhausted.. And that's his job. If he needs to up his dosage to make it happen for America.. Then so be it. If he is not up to the challenge.. Then sad trombone for us.. But let someone else take charge so we as a country can make it happen
Commenting is no longer available.