Jersey City Shooting

All networks...2 long gun shooters on the loose near sacred heart school....2 officers down

Bug3
Dec '19

Here's a link. From all I have heard and seen, it does not involved any school.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/active-shooter-reported-jersey-city-new-jersey-n1099131

Calico696 Calico696
Dec '19

The school is what I saw on tv as a land mark

Bug3
Dec '19

Apparently it started with an incident in a nearby cemetery where officers had a report of suspicious activity. The suspects apparently traveled and were encountered at a Kosher Bodega where they holed up. Apparently the male and female suspect and 2 victims are dead. Schools still on lockdown. One officer shot in head and in critical condition a number of others wounded.

Phil D. Phil D.
Dec '19

Just checked in with my son (about 1/2 hour ago) who is near where this is happening and he said at that time it was still ongoing and all people who live in the area have been advised to stay inside.

joyful joyful
Dec '19

Lockdown lifted as of 4:15PM Schools reopening on a staggered basis.

One Officer dead, one shot in the shoulder and 2 with shrapnel injuries. 3 Civilians and 2 shooters killed in the store. Apparently this couple was known to police and were being investigated for an earlier homicide in the area.

Phil D. Phil D.
Dec '19

They need to invoke the death penalty for shooting law enforcement people, this is out of control.
There need to be consequences for these actions..

steven steven
Dec '19

Agreed Steven!!

Colleen Colleen
Dec '19

Unfortunately now a days you have people throwing things at cops and disrespecting them and then when something huge happens like this - there the cops are putting their lives on the line. When public officials don't do squat and cops have to take crap without doing anything, it's sad. RIP to Detective Seals - five kids and a wife. Sad day.

DogDayAfternoon
Dec '19

Terrible day. RIP Detective. Condolences to the families affected by this tragedy.

Calico696 Calico696
Dec '19

So very sad. My Heart hurts for the families who have suffered these senseless losses today in Jersey City. RIP Detective Seals and condolences to the Seals family. Wishes for a quick and full recovery for the injured officers and civilians.

Mrs. Pipes```` Mrs. Pipes````
Dec '19

“They need to invoke the death penalty for shooting law enforcement people, this is out of control.”

All lives matter. All. Ignoring innocent victims while elevating others is the absolute worst thing to do.

justintime justintime
Dec '19

Detective approaches two thugs and gets shot in the head. What is wrong with these people? This country needs to be tougher on thugs, need to exterminate them...


steven

Death Penalty for killing Law Enforcement Officers? Why is their life more important than any other persons ?? Death Penalty for all !!


Life in prison is no big deal for career criminals now a days, so that's why people don't care. They go to prison and three hots and a cot, get internet, and live the life of Reilly as my grandparents would say.

DogDayAfternoon
Dec '19

This was a horrible tragedy. Apparently they haven't been clear on it or information has changed about an explosive device being in the stolen vehicle they were driving.

Another sad point is that it overshadowed another tragedy in Newark that happened just before this story first broke. I thought it may be related to the stabbing of an 11 and 15 year old, but apparently not. The 15 year old was killed:

https://www.nj.com/essex/2019/12/15-year-old-stabbed-to-death-11-year-old-injured-in-newark.html

A sad day for the Hudson/Essex county area indeed.

Phil D. Phil D.
Dec '19

Cops have a hard choice. Protect themselves with split seconds.

Example- https://youtu.be/P2jekvQ76mw


Lion you wrote: Why is their life more important than any other persons ?? Death Penalty for all !!

Let's start with law enforcement ( the foundation we all need ) ...then see what "bubbles up" in other area's ...I suspect if these wackos realize there are consequences that will not allow them to be spewed over the air waves , they will control themselves …..But we all know the bleeding hearts are so sympathetic, "we must be fair to all " ...let's all pray for a safe Holiday Season for all !

steven steven
Dec '19

This was my old neighborhood. I lived one block over and went to Sacred Heart Grammar School.

What bothers me the most is, once again, a tragedy is used for people to get on their soap boxes about gun control instead of praying for those involved.

When did peoples lives become less important then political fights?

Guns dont kill people, bad people kill people.

hackettstown wife hackettstown wife
Dec '19

"All lives matter. All. Ignoring innocent victims while elevating others is the absolute worst thing to do."


+100

JeffersonRepub JeffersonRepub
Dec '19

Steven if this was America back in 1819 people like this would be tried, convicted, and hung the next day. We need to go back to that. Even if these people were caught and given the death penalty, they'd spend 20-30 years leaching off of taxpayers before they're executed. It's a joke. A tree branch and rope is cheap. These people that say doing this is more expensive than keeping someone alive for decades are out of their minds.

Metsman Metsman
Dec '19

“death penalty for people like this”

Ummm.... they ARE dead.

I ask agree with “All lives matter”. Look at how many innocent people are in prison. It’s a bit unnerving really.

My heart and prayers are with all the families of all who were lost.

BighArt BighArt
Dec '19

Nobody seems to care about the uhaul filled with pipe bombs

Bug3
Dec '19

Hardly a word on national news. How come?

Indie Indie
Dec '19

It's been reported on all the major national news outlets.


Lion. How about because they are out there protecting YOU and me putting their lives on the line??? Come on!!

John Matuella John Matuella
Dec '19

IMO --- pick the least expensive alternative --- life or death. Life has the advantage of being correctible. Death, not so much so. Absolute guilt --- not in this world. But to me, get them off the street and spend as little money as possible for humane incarceration or, if cheaper, death.

Better yet, make death cheaper than life which, given the irreversibility of the sentence, generally mandates appeals making it up to 18 times more expensive. Speedy death sentences, as some here feel warranted, just exacerbate the possibility of a life-ending mistake.

Probably biased, but perhaps someone else can find costing information: https://deathpenalty.org/facts/5-myths-death-penalty/

strangerdanger strangerdanger
Dec '19

How about because they are out there protecting YOU and me putting their lives on the line???
Not Volunteers. They get paid well to do these jobs and choose them under their own free will. They also try to legislate that those not in that career are disarmed and not allowed to be able to protect themselves, thereby denying the same of their own freedom to live like as they choose.

"All lives matter. All. Ignoring innocent victims while elevating others is the absolute worst thing to do."


+110 %

callitlikeIseeit callitlikeIseeit
Dec '19

One of these (anti-semitic) guys was found to have connections to the black Israelites group. The same group that banged drums in the Covington High kids faces in DC who the left wing media portrayed as "good guys".

LVer
Dec '19

This was a deliberate anti semitic attack by a member of the Black Hebrew Israelites. A group designated as a hate group. The first guy shot was a hasidic man on the street, while other were not targeted. They then went in the Kosher deli and killed who ever they could. In true HL form let's ignore the cause and motive and get in a pissing match about the death penalty which clearly is irrelevant with these 2 murderers.

Denis Denis
Dec '19

Aren’t most of these recent ones designated as hate crimes? This one was pretty tame, in the scheme of things. Maybe due to our fallen hero messing up the plan.

I wonder what the real plan was since this one might have been ad hoc after the cemetery shooting.

Still early.

Strangerdanger Strangerdanger
Dec '19

Anyone that kills someone should be put on a ship, taken out into the ocean, slit a wrist and throw them overboard....done , quick and cheap !

The sharks will clean up any mess.

steven steven
Dec '19

And what happens when those who are sworn to uphold the law make a mistake and get the wrong guy-or someone is set up.
Has happened hundreds of times.
What about the lady cop who went into an apartment and shot a guy eating ice cream.
Okay with letting the sharks have her too?

callitlikeIseeit callitlikeIseeit
Dec '19

"What about the lady cop who went into an apartment and shot a guy eating ice cream.
Okay with letting the sharks have her too?"


I don't know the details, but if he was innocent of committing a crime, she should lose her job and pension, serve prison time for manslaughter, and of course be banned from further public service.

JeffersonRepub JeffersonRepub
Dec '19

If criminals are shown there are "final" consequences for their bizarre behavior, they will stop .

steven steven
Dec '19

Police get paid to protect us. And since we pay their salaries, that makes us just as important.

No, actually, what makes us equally important is that we are all human beings. To favor a job description over all other human life is sick.

HackersArrSwivelEyes HackersArrSwivelEyes
Dec '19

callitlikeIseeit you really think a Jersey City cop is making as much as a town cop in our area? Cmon…. And you're comparing a mistake made by a police woman who will serve her time for it and showed remorse, with a hate group that killed mercilessly?! Better get your thinking straight....

Metsman Metsman
Dec '19

Actually Mets: yes....I think the pay ranking from top to bottom is: suburban, city, and rural for police salaries, many of which are over 100k as NJ is one of the richest places for cops to work.

Really Steven.....you really think your punishment will “stop it.” No wonder our crime rate is so high......If you expect punishment to be an effective deterrent, why ate the prisons overfilled? Slow learners I guess.

Now, it is most certainly true that if they didn’t have guns, they wouldn’t shoot people. But we all know the response to that one.

Strangerdanger Strangerdanger
Dec '19

I think all cops should have to do some "time" in Jersey City, Newark, NYC etc. before they become the next Barney Fife of a small town. Most of these guys have no clue what the profession really calls for. Just a badge and gun and town revenue to generate.

steve steve
Dec '19

Some local people of color are blaming the Jews for the shootings, unreal.

https://www.fox5ny.com/news/crowd-at-jersey-city-shooting-scene-recorded-making-anti-semitic-comments

kb2755 kb2755
Dec '19

Kb2755
They were Jews that did the shootings...

Bug3
Dec '19

SD the only guys making over $100k are higher ranked cops. You don't start out anywhere near 6 figures.

Metsman Metsman
Dec '19

"They were Jews that did the shootings..."

Yes, Black Hebrew Israelites. As far as I understand it, they believe white Jews to be imposters. Strange how they make religion about color.

Calico696 Calico696
Dec '19

They were hate filled killers- the amount of antisemitism in this country scares the hell out of me..................

the amount of - oh nevermind..............

4catmom 4catmom
Dec '19

4cat - I'm sorry to hear that you feel that way. Actually, anti-semitism in the US is lower than the majority of other countries.

https://global100.adl.org/map

Also, why bother with the second part of your post? Reads to me like you were about to say something hateful and then changed your mind. I'm curious why you wouldn't just delete the whole second part?

Calico696 Calico696
Dec '19

I am concerned with the rise of antisemitism everywhere but the level in this country - shootings at temples, the jersey city incident - the rise of white supremacists is ugly and frightening- The number of shootings at temples...................awful............No I was not going to say something hateful - just decided not to continue on and didn't think to delete...
I guess you'd have to have lost family in the camps - to have had family try to escape - to understand how frightening this is.

4catmom 4catmom
Dec '19

4catmom

The shooters in Jersey City were black

Bug3
Dec '19

I don't mind anyone until they personally do wrong towards me.

I think the unspoken reality is most of us may feel uncomfortable or at least raise an eyebrow at some that are different than us because of how the few that media defines them as- present the entire group in a bad light.

As an example from a TV show called 'the shield' from 2003-

“So I am a suspect just because I am Arab?” “No, sir, you’re a suspect because 19 guys who look like your twin brother killed 3,000 Americans.”

Even Bill Cosby (himself who has done horrible things no doubt) vocally spoke out against how other blacks represented the community- rap videos all about drugs, money, f-ing hoes,....

Myself- I can't see where a Jewish person has ever done me wrong or harmed me. I can't imagine what faulty logic must go through someones head in order to attack and even kill someone or groups of someone over a difference in belief or opinion.

That is the same reason I am 100% not fanatical about any politic group, religion, race, sports, etc.

I look at everything at the broken down level- I might like some of what some politician says but hate the rest- I might like some of the other guy, but hate the rest.

This isn't brain salad surgery people- stop being sheep, start thinking.


4cat - I have a lot of Jewish friends and they are more angry than frightened by these incidents. Do you have a link to post regarding your claim of the rise in white supremacists?

Calico696 Calico696
Dec '19

How do you find Jewish friends in Oxford? Really, you need a link to see a rise in White Supremacy?

Why are we sheep? Cuz I have a name for anyone who quotes Bill Cosby as an expert on race...… Think that ship passed after his first $100 million of his $400 million net worth.

Were the shooters really African Americans? I can not find that. You're probably right, but just can't find it.

The tag to Black Hebrew Israelite is certainly a link, but the press is backing off in that could be anything from healthy interest to being a card-carrying member. Pretty fractured, disjointed group with each splinter having some different views. But a bit early to call this one.

strangerdanger strangerdanger
Dec '19

SD- you are a weird dude.

Part of me wants to meet you and have a few beers. Part of me is scared of whatever is going on in your head.

Part of me certainly says stand your ground, speak your mind- but certainly part of me says re-read what I (you) write, does it at least make sense and how will it be understood?

Example-

Cuz I have a name for anyone who quotes Bill Cosby as an expert on race...… Think that ship passed after his first $100 million of his $400 million net worth.

Answer- I never said expert, and certainly money has zero regard on speaking out about how bad behavior shouldn't be celebrated- much less representative of an entire race.

I get that you might say- Bill had money so was out of touch with the harsh reality of life- but that still doesn't change the fact that the few lucky enough to be able to be on tv or radio shouldn't behave like trash.

Did he always have money and power? Given his age- he grew up in the 50's and 60's so I'd dare say he has a legitimate argument ready for you. I'd assume he faced bad things... was lucky enough to rise above that, and eventually try to speak out to other black people offering advice.

And then-

Were the shooters really African Americans?

No- I'd guess they were black. Could have been from numerous other countries, or from here as well. Who started the term 'African American' and all the other sheep followed suit? Many blacks have never been to Africa, many no roots there whatsoever. Knock it off.

And that's not racist in nature- my MIL says all the time she is 'Italian' just because she thinks it sounds cool. She went there once- on vacation. She doesn't speak Italian other than pasta and wine. She talks about what she says she thinks her heritage is- but recently her daughter (my sil) had a DNA test and guess what- all wrong.

Ever heard of grass fed beef? We have too much media fed sheep.

Honestly- even free range food just means let out of a cage in small fenced in area.

Holy hell.


Here’s one link....want more? https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/01/us/politics/white-supremacy-homeland-security.html

4catmom 4catmom
Dec '19

Here, Calico, let me google that for you:

https://time.com/5555396/white-supremacist-attacks-rise-new-zealand/

https://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security/discriminatory-profiling/white-supremacist-violence-rise-expanding-fbis


Well,

I know where I stand.

steven steven
Dec '19

“Were the shooters really African Americans?”

Certainly don’t look White, Hispanic, or Asian...

Unless you are playing word games in that they weren’t directly from Africa.

https://nypost.com/2019/12/11/jersey-city-shooting-suspects-were-lovers-who-lived-in-a-van/

Mark Mc. Mark Mc.
Dec '19

NY Times, Time, ACLU. What's next 60 Minutes?

No thanks, I'll do my own research.

"How do you find Jewish friends in Oxford?"

What an ignorant statement to make. Are all of your friends from the town you live in? I grew up in a city that was about 1/3 Jewish and I work with many Jewish people.

Calico696 Calico696
Dec '19

"SD- you are a weird dude."

SD is a woman. Which would be a weird dude.

dodgebaal dodgebaal
Dec '19

Josh, ntw - no meeting in our future, beers or not. If you accept Bill’s word as your expert, there it is. But why? Not going there except to say what Bill, and you, are alluding to has little to do with this. Really nothing actually. You just seem to like putting certain people in a special bucket while at the same time telling others to forget their heritage. Never heard your special argument regarding heritage. Would love to hear you tell folks than one in public. Maybe get a soap box for St. Patty’s day so you can yell, “you’re really not Irish; and it’s not important if you are.” Or maybe at the next meeting of the African American Panthers, you can tell them they’re all alike ;-). But no, my heritage is very important to me and who I am. And I am an American and I am unique. Even if I never visit all those countries. Otherwise, those 000’s of hours I have spent researching would mean nothing ;-)

Really Calico, you work? ;-) Come on, I realize you might know someone outside of Oxford. Just making light of the lack of diversity in Oxford, where the Warren County people of the Jewish faith might be, and your famous comment “ I have a lot of Jewish friends.” Always a funny line. Actually I remember being shocked to find a synagogue in Warren County, what a nice thing. I think it’s swell that you touched base with them so soon after this tragic crime, sound like close friends.

Thanks Mark, I did look, but couldn’t find pics and the words didn’t specify. There’s still more legs on this one, still early to make too many conclusions. Certainly seems to be a hate crime, but rest seems cloudy still.

Strangerdanger Strangerdanger
Dec '19

Congresswoman Talib and Joy Behar both blamed the attack on white supremacists without knowing the facts.

kb2755 kb2755
Dec '19

Re: Jersey City Shooting

"SD is a woman. Which would be a weird dude."

JeffersonRepub JeffersonRepub
Dec '19

Bug3 get your facts straight. the shooters were not Jews. They consider current Jews imposters, and the call themselves Israelites to separate themselves from Jews who they hold in contempt. None of the 3 major sect of Judaism would ever recognize them as Jewish.

Denis Denis
Dec '19

Not sure why you seem focused on my gender, but sorry, not interested. Josh might share a beer with you all though. He seems thirsty ;-)

Strangerdanger Strangerdanger
Dec '19

I’m actually shocked to find out!

Women online typically aren’t so...verbose. ;)


All,

Regardless of their Heritage ...they are wackos and should be given same as they provided their victims....gun them down and be done.

Their lives are of the same value they determined of their victims !

steven steven
Dec '19

Don’t be so shocked, it’s quite likely untrue:

http://www.hackettstownlife.com/forum/907769#t908276

justintime justintime
Dec '19

“gun them down and be done“

Only in a barbaric society.

No, a trial is a must because all humans are fallible. Even then we’ve been known to make mistakes.

https://www.innocenceproject.org

justintime justintime
Dec '19

When you start undeniably shooting for or more people you should be gunned down

Bug3
Dec '19

Good one, justintime. SD like most others that post on forums are only playing games.

Real1 Real1
Dec '19

Well, when opining so strongly I would suggest reading and comprehending the facts of what has been presented.

1. They were black (who cares)
2. They were gunned down (thank god) and are dead. No need for the innocence project or a trial.

Aren't all crimes hate crimes. If I am walking with my family (middle class white) and we are gunned down and robbed by another race, why isn't that a hate crime. What crime is driven by love?

They were not white, but yet we jump to white supremacy. I wonder what race actually commits the most crimes against people of minority. Guess it doesn't matter. It is all too much no matter who commits it. Say what you want to feel better.

Yes, take away the criminals guns so they stop committing crimes. Maybe that will be the one law they follow.

At the end of the day, innocent people have died at the hand of another wack job driven by some sort of religion that I don't know much about. How many people have died driven by some religious fanatic. Now certainly I am not claiming that all people that go to church are nuts.

If we really wanted to stop people from being killed though, I would ban the guns and shut down the churches. This religion stuff is getting out of control. And don't give me any BS about religion not killing people, people kill people. Why go after the guns when it is driven by a religion? Next thing we will have is someone walking into a bodega swinging a spade shovel at some person of a religion they don't like. Which would suck because I like digging holes with a shovel as opposed to a spoon. Please do not take away my shovel, we are all not bad.

Fanatics. They are increasing. White supremacy, religious wackos of all kinds, weapons owners etc.

Animal_Lover_Always
Dec '19

"SD the only guys making over $100k are higher ranked cops. You don't start out anywhere near 6 figures."

maybe in "base" salary... factor in overtime, and you will be hard pressed to find any but the greenest of recruits who "doesnt" make at least $100k per year.

my wife's cousin is a Port Authority cop who makes $90k in base salary. he made almost that much over again in overtime pay. and he's probably typical... there are guys on the force making over $200k when you factor in their OT.

ianimal ianimal
Dec '19

Ok so they are working a lot of hours and being compensated for it. How's that any different from any other job where OT is available?

Metsman Metsman
Dec '19

Too many people in this post seem preoccupied with my sex. One guy even seems to save clippings. Quaint. And, funnier yet, is the guy who measures gender by counting words. And then this verbose male claims to know that women use more words. I don’t measure a person by gender, race, where they came from, or how many words are in a post. That’s your game and it’s a real one.

Strangerdanger Strangerdanger
Dec '19

I didn't say it was any different. Just pointing out your assumptive error...

Take Hackettstown for example... there are 17 cops on the payroll. 14 of them are making more than $95k in base salary. With OT, I'm sure they are making much more than that. Just the facts, no judgements on whether or not it's deserved... that's not for me to say.

ianimal ianimal
Dec '19

Actually, you can just measure total overtime by a department and pretty much have a say right there, at least money-wise. Think at time n a half for OT, about 2,000 hours a year for a full time worker, the result is at about 1,300 OT hours, hiring full time makes sense. Of course, you have to factor load if doing a comprehensive job, but pretty sure you can have a say IF you have total OT hours by department.

Strangerdanger Strangerdanger
Dec '19

Well now you know part of the reason why taxes are outrageous in NJ. If they're already making $95k then they should not be getting OT they should be salary. It's not like Hackettstown has tons of action.

Metsman Metsman
Dec '19

"It's not like Hackettstown has tons of action."

So I'm sure you are basing that statement on actual facts, right Metsman? You know the # of calls Hackettstown police get called to and compared it to other towns, right?

Jim L Jim L
Dec '19

I'm sure every town cop gets plenty of calls to go on. They're not dealing with the kind of stuff a city cop would be dealing with.

Metsman Metsman
Dec '19

The 95k is just the beginning. Retire after 20 with a big pension and retiree medical. 95k alone is not the problem IMHO.


Yet another sex fiend chimes in. Apparently I have been keeping it to myself and certain individuals just have to know. Why the interest in what’s between my legs is not my problem. I know. Why your interest is beyond me.

I have very large hands too....

Strangerdanger Strangerdanger
Dec '19

Just some facts.
Port Authority Police are not funded through taxes. They are funded through tolls from both NJ and NY.

Retiring from NJ Police and Fire Retirement System after 20 years is 50% of base salary with NO medical benefits. I believe since Christie changed the system that 20 provision was removed, not sure on that. Retire after 25 years at 65%, and 80% medical benefits. The monthly payment on that for blue cross blue shield is very expensive for that 20%. Well over 500.00 or more. Warren Co. and Sussex county are paid well under what Essex or Bergan co for example, probably paid less than the rest of NJ. They might not get the amount of calls of towns closer to NY, but they get the same calls. It is not unknown for Police in our area to become involved with a shooting. Many of our Officers have been injured by criminals here. Not to mention all the other duties, severe motor vehicle accidents, medical emergencies, having to notify family of a death, answering domestic abuse calls, and so many other calls, all take a toll on all Officers everywhere, not just in our area. The belief that nothing happens here is a testament to the job done by our Officers. You don't see the monsters because they are being dealt with by our LEO's everyday. I personally know many Officers working and retired. It can be a very rewarding career, but it comes with a price the protected will never know.

Boobalaa Boobalaa
Dec '19

Fyi

A " toll" is just a user tax and still paid by tax payers just a different bucket

Bug3
Dec '19

Tolls are taxes. Just another name but all the same.

Ordained
Dec '19

Re: Jersey City Shooting

If Hackettstown Life Forum was a child, it would be prescribed the maximum dosage of ritalin.

Denis Denis
Dec '19

Denis,
Great picture to go with your comment.

dodgebaal dodgebaal
Dec '19

I agree, tolls are taxes.
Also, the career is chosen by the individual. No one forcing anyone to be an officer, a pilot, or a cashier.
Also, each career is being paid to do the job it is doing. Don't like picking up soda bottles, don't be a cashier. Picking up soda bottles while being paid for it does not make you a hero.
Taking pictures when you are a paid photographer does not make you a hero.

dodgebaal dodgebaal
Dec '19

"Taking pictures when you are a paid photographer does not make you a hero."


Depends- taking pictures of animals in the arctic or jungle? Harsh environment, but ya a job you picked.

The guys who went to Normandy to document? Hero.


Josh,
You are right because if you are a military combat photographer, you receive the same pay as any other soldier, airman, marine, or sailor in that same pay grade.
Not very much money at all.

dodgebaal dodgebaal
Dec '19

dodgebaal, yes Officers did chose the job they have. Lucky for you and others here, that job results in you having a safer life. If there were no Officers, can you imagine what life would be like? Its nice to call a number in the middle of the night when someone is breaking into your house and someone comes to help you. I hope that never happens, but if it should, make sure to tell the Officer he is only doing his job and not to expect a thank you for it.

Boobalaa Boobalaa
Dec '19

Tolls are taxes. And Cops are overpaid, way overpaid. And they become a necessity for townships to drum up revenue. No way a Hackettstown cop should earn $95K plus. That's a lot of money to fraternize with crossing guards every morning.

steve steve
Dec '19

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