Weed vote postponed
Finally some common sense from trenton
Only thing they can pass is new taxes. Murphy needs a platform to run again next term anyway.
NJ is a pharm town, don’t forget all the script drugs people take, can’t let those sales go down if weed is legal. Xanax and valium takers unite!
Another reason to move
Vote was pushed back. It wasn't voted down. Clearly the only way it's going to be legalized is when all of the backroom payoffs and loopholes can be finalized for the corporations in Parsippany destined to see profits declined once a cheaper, natural alternative to their meds is legalized.
I guess we should change the title to vote cancelled due to lack of supprt
Sam be cool man....eat some munchies and call me in the morning.
OK, if that’s what you want. So what’s the skinny, In The Morning? What’s fattening?
It doesn't matter if it becomes legal, you still can't be driving around smoking it while you're driving which a lot of people get busted for.
Should be illegal. My opinion is more people will start using it and then we will have more impaired drivers.
i think the salient point here is that everyone who wants to is already using it - May as well tax it
That is right Skippy. Get the taxes for it and it will be regulated so the problems with it being laced with outside stuff will cause less issues. I haven't touched the stuff for almost 20 years but if it is regulated like alcohol, what is the problem?
The only problem with legalization is that there's no current way to tell how much "under the influence" someone may be while driving. Current tests can tell if someone has used, but not what concentration of THC is in the body at the time. BAC results are easier with Breathalyzer/Blood tests, though they too can have issues.
I recall a recent study showing that there have been an increase in driving under the influence arrests in the states which have legalized Pot. The problem again is that there's no scientific method to tell whether what they ingested was an hour ago or a month ago, which makes arrests somewhat subjective.
A field coordination test doesn't always give clear answers and you're left with the officer's testimony as well as the officer's dashcam and/or bodycam in order to establish that the person was driving erratically. Of course an odor of cannibis on the breath or on the clothes or in the car would give recent use away, but that once again would be an officer's subjective opinion. Sadly, there are some officers who would "smell" what may not be there as well so the "problem" remains unsolved.
Phil- now THAT is good info!!! And a perfectly reasonable reason to not legalize it recreationally.... altho, I can't imagine such a test can't be developed, and quickly... I'm actually quite surprised they haven't developed it YET....
"Murphy needs a platform to run again next term anyway."
I just assumed it would be as the Brinestone Cowboy.
What really pisses me off about this whole thing is the expungements of previous offenses!!!!! Why should records be cleared?? People knowing broke the law and got caught n convicted.. If u can’t do the time don’t do the crime. What’s next expungements for drug dealers or for people who robbed houses to pay for drugs???? Let’s call this what it is gonna be A liberal scam to generate votes and more money to piss away!!!!!They ought to take the money they are gonna generate and start opening more rehab facilities and drug prevention... Can anyone say Gateway drug!!!!!!!
Strange...recently took a drug test for a job, passed no problem, however the strange part was that my interviewer told me if marijuana showed up I’d still be cleared.
It was Governor Fire Marshall Bill's own party that shot the proposal down . Specifically the African American members of the state assembly who see legalization as a detriment to their communities and mainly benefitting white investors/entrepreneurs . The NY Times wrote an interesting article about it (link below) .
Mr Tone - because an arrest record for possessing a minuscule amount of pot shouldn’t haunt you the rest of your life. A positive note: once it’s legalized cops won’t be able to use the “smells like pot in here” line in order to justify searching cars.
And therein lies the rub - it’s too much of a cash cow to municipal and superior courts via probable cause. That and they have heaped too much onto it
Here you go
"* Applicants who apply to be licensed cannabis businesses by the state must sign an agreement they will hire workers represented by labor unions. Exceptions are made for micro-business owners."
I'm concerned about people driving buzzed, and it being harder to detect, but If alcohol is legal, then weed should be to. Beyond the driving issue alcohol causes far more problems, health issues, violent crime, and destruction of families than weed ever will. It's just one is illegal, and another has a long held illegal stigma on it. It's coming, Murphy needs al the tax revenue he can get, and it a gold mine. Side note from someone who is officially a Grandpa, this ain't your Grandpa's weed that you smoked in college.
Then of course before legalization, Emergency Room visits due to CHS were practically unheard of. While in cancer patients it may help with nausea associated with chemo and help increase their appetite, with continued and/or heavy usage, Pot cancause nausea, vomiting, and severe stomach pain. The only solution and cure is to stop, completely stop.
While CHS may have been viewed as a scare tactic to keep people away, the just published study shows that it was only because there weren't enough people doing it (or perhaps admitting to its use because of earlier illegality) for it to start showing up on a larger scale.
Obviously anything should be used in moderation, Pot, alcohol, etc.
You are right - that possession of a small amount of pot shouldn't ruin someone's life, but on the same breath, that person did choose to break the law at the time. It should be the business owner's choice if they are OK with the person having a prior pot conviction.
From what I heard, the state wants to tax 40 dollars per ounce. That is on top of the price. Bootleggers will flock to NJ. They can provide a much cheaper product.
There have also been new studies about early dementia due to marijuana use. I hate driving with all the people I see on cell phones... now will we have to worry about smoking pot, cell phone addicts, dementia, and driving!
On the other hand, Murphy's budget largely depends on the revenue he is planning on getting from legalization. If not from pot, then from us. Either way we are screwed
People die everyday from alcohol poisoning,if you smoke to much you go to sleep- big difference,have you ever heard of somebody overdosed from pot?
"Here you go
"* Applicants who apply to be licensed cannabis businesses by the state must sign an agreement they will hire workers represented by labor unions. Exceptions are made for micro-business owners."
SON OF A B----- I effing hate govt. And NJ's is one of the very worst.
I really think if you legalize it, not much changes except the tax dollars. Everyone who wants it can easily get it today, and perhaps a few who we would rather not have it like kids have easier access because illegal distributors don’t care.
Same people die, drive, and work under the influence. Maybe a few more. Maybe less with DUI testing.
Tests can be made for DUI for this just like they have tests for jobs.
There’s enough states with legalization experience in this that there shouldn’t be many procedural issues if NJ follows best practices. As far as I know, none of these states have fallen off the map yet.
Legal weed is all great until people start plowing cars into the back of others, taking out entire families in the process...
As of the end of 2018, studies showed a 6% increase although its early yet to show causation. I think we can manage through that.
"The Legalization of Marijuana in Colorado: The Impact," interesting report to see what this looks like at scale. I had no idea of the statistics.
they are a multi jurisdictional task-force
...and while discussing this with someone from our Denver office last week she said, "Insurance rates went through the roof". Just in case you didn't think you were paying enough for car insurance.
"Auto insurance rates may be influenced by elevated risks associated with drivers under the influence. Complicating the situation is the lack of standardized methods for roadside detection of drug-impaired driving. Additionally, the variability of side effects and physiological reactions in each user increase the risk of misidentifying a driver’s status at the time of the incident."
I’m pretty sure licensed alcohol distributors as well as establishments and retailers will throw money behind this failing.
Rmhidta is a biased source, Skippy. Recent data says 6% not over 100%....... And still a correlation, not causation. Rmhidta says skyrocketing at over 100% with causation. Think they are high.
Finally a crop that NJ farmers can grow and stay profitable and the legislators representing them are voting against it. Guess they just want more condos and Toll Brothers developments out here instead.
Auto insurance premiums will definitely increase. As if NJ's rates aren't high enough. Sigh....
What about the increase in lung cancer?..ANY smoke inhaled can cause cancer
Well they are a law enforcement resource which has a vested interest in continued enforcement for sure
As long as you are not part of the additional 6%, I am for no additional hazards on the road. Technology is reducing accidents, let's not inject things that raise injuries and mortalities...,
The only reasonable answer to me, is to re-schedule marijuana, not legalize it and allowed it to be studied and post a moratorium on legalization under its short term, and long term affects are understood on everyone from unborn babies who's mothers use, to teenagers, to adults.
If the science comes back that is's harmless, I'll change my mind. I doubt it will. But science says smoking it is about as harmful as smoking cigarette. Other forms may be safer. But we risk exposing ourselves to a multi-generation health crisis with legalization. Legalization should come from the FDA, the same as any other drug. Congress should act to re-schedule it, to allow the full and complete study.
The other things I want extremely clear in any law:
Can multi-family and apartment buildings decide if smoking is allowed, if so, how. Any building that chooses to allows it should be mandated to allow non-smokers to leave penalty free. No one should be forced out of their home because a change in law makes a neighbor insufferable. Right now with it being illegal, action can be taken to stop it.
And Testing: I don't care if its a chemical test or field sobriety, but legalizing it before being able to reasonable tell if someone is under the influence at the time of an accident or being pulled over is unacceptable.
I do think we could decriminalize it - replace jail with heavy civil fines for use. Like $500 or more each time, not a $30 traffic ticket. Drug courts were a good step. More mental health treatment would be better - most people have underlying issues that lead them to depend on chemicals to survive the day.
But double down on the dealers. Dealers are the scum of the earth. I'd go as far to allow open season on them.
Write your reps folks. I did and got some very nice letters back from them!
In other news, they passed a bill for right to die. I haven't read everything but the initial reports seem to be a pretty throughout bill, must have less than 6 months to live, must ask multiple times on multiple days, 2nd doctor must sign off, multiple witnesses excluding family and doctors. Only thing I didn't see is a mandatory psych eval, which seems to be common i everywhere else that has legalized it.
Regarding lung cancer, in places where it is now legal (i.e. CO, OR and CA) more consumables are sold than flower. Everything from gummies to lollypops to soda can be infused with extracts from cannibis plants. One of the more interesting ones I saw was olive oil infused with hash oil, mixed with balsamic vinegar for a really interesting salad dressing.
No lungs involved.
There are many things in marijuana that are bad for you but only one that has a positive value
"Legal weed is all great until people start plowing cars into the back of others, taking out entire families in the process..."
START? This happens all day, every day, under the influence or not. Usually not.
This is a very civil and informative conversation, big ups everyone!
"This is a very civil and informative conversation, big ups everyone!"
because everyone is mellow from their buzz.
Why introduce another gate way drug to society when we are already embattled with an opioid crisis and alcoholism?
Instead of turning to drugs why don’t you all go outside and get some fresh air to get your “buzz”.
Not only that, but who the hell wants to smell that crap as your walking down the street or in prking lots. It’s bad enough NJs air quality is a rated a D.
Follow the reports from Colorado. Regulations for edibles suggest 10 mg. BUT 1 "regulated " candy bar can have less than 1 mg - 100 mg. So the dosages are not accurate. Lots of ER visits and psychosis episodes. Heart issues too.
And people driving high.
So, no, not a good idea to legalize/regulate it in NJ.
If you want to smoke it, grow your own.
Put it on a ballot and it will pass. Close to 70% support legalization in NJ. Let the people speak so the boozers and baby boomers can shut up.
I disagree with this statement by SD "Same people die, drive, and work under the influence. Maybe a few more. Maybe less with DUI testing. "
I know for a fact many people who have not used it because it is ILLEGAL....myself included.....I also know for a fact that once the chance of loosing your job if it is found in your system during a drug test is no long there (just one example), that more people will be willing to try it.
With your logic above, what is the point of gun laws? The same amount of people are going to do whatever they want regardless?
Darrin companies can still require drug testing on its employees even if it is made legal at the state level. Since it’s still illegal at the federal level and especially if company does business in multiple states where some states it may be legal and some states it may be illegal. They would have 1 company wide policy.
A company like Home Depot would still drug test it’s employess in NJ just like they still drug test their employees in CO.
Here ya go
Over 100 different compounds in weed
6% increase is the going rate on fatality increase statistics Darrin; that’s correlation, not causation. To early to tell that I believe.
So, independent of all the frustrated non-using wannabees you know, the stats seem to indicate a managable increase, not the Tsunami your personal experience would lead you to believe.
Not sure of your gun analogy reference having any relevance whatsoevet except that you like guns and seem to love to pick a gun fight whenever you can sneak it in. Have fun with that.
The workplace testing has nothing to do with pot still being illegal federally - it has to do with potentially being under the influence (of anything) while on-the-job. Most jobs that have random drug testing involve operating heavy equipment and the boss has the right to make sure his/her employees are not under the influence of anything while operating their equipment.
Certainly don't much about this topic. However, I do support the medical marijuana program because I believe that it does help many people manage their pain and has shown to be of help with many medical conditions. I read this morning that the expansion of this program will also be put on hold now. That is a shame.
It was just one example Jim, but to your point...I heard the opposite...I was told that if it is legal in the state in which you reside, a drug test reading at work cannot be held against you unless you are currently on it, much like if you are currently drunk at work....
Not to mention I still don't understand the legal at state level, but illegal at the federal level thing......
And here we go with SD's "but I don't understand" b.s. again....you know darn well the analogy makes sense....you just choose to be super hypocritical with your inconstant beliefs....you think gun laws will stop people from getting what they want, but you think drug laws are useless because anyone that is going to do it are already doing it....ummmm HELLO!!?!?!?!
The medical marijuana plan in NJ is a joke . No insurance covers it , only a handful of doctors can prescribe it , once you get a card you're not allowed gun ownership , and the nearest dispensary to this area is in Montclair . I thought about it for the insomnia from my chronic tinnitus , but once I saw all the hoops you have to jump through I laughed and stuck with generic ambien which is 3.50 per month under my drug plan .
I wasn't thinking any of that Darrin. Just never even crossed my mind. Glad you are so invested in what you think I think about things. It's good to have a hobby.
What did cross my mind was the false equivalency of saying guns and pot whether it be desire, legality, access, or use. But whatever floats your boat, it's your opinion. Just don't suck on your barrel and lighter er up. That comparison will hurt you :>)
In the state of Colorado a company can still fire you if you test positive for marijuana...per the supreme court ..there is no civil rights for pot heads
Companies are allowed to put policies in place that go above and beyond "the law". Back in the 90s when I interviewed with UPS, I was told that policy was that you couldn't have long hair or facial hair...and obviously both of those things are legal.
"Why introduce another gate way drug to society when we are already embattled with an opioid crisis and alcoholism? "
Simple answer to this argument- the people that are already of the mindset and personality to do these types of things are already going to do it.
Gateway drug theory is flawed and bs.
For every person that tells you 'my kid smoked pot and then did heroin or cocaine' guess what- they would have done it anyway.
The vast majority of the public drinks alcohol- do they do heroin or cocaine? No.
The overwhelming, probably close to 100% tried a cigarette, - do they smoke pot? No.
But you could easily say 99%+ people that do heroin or cocaine started with alcohol.
Stop being an easily led stupid sheep.
And no- I don't smoke, either cigarettes or pot. Tried it, didn't like it. No gateway to either, just random choices.
I do drink though- and don't think gateway drug makes any sense or else I would be on to other stuff.
The type of people who already mentally comfortable / acceptable to experiment- well, are going to experiment... duh.
Might as well say- you eat sushi, you will eat Monkey brains and Elephant hearts.
Again- stop being stupid.
Companies are allowed to not hire you if you use legal weed and are allowed to fire you if you test positive - usually as long as they've made their stance clear in the employee handbook. But at will employers may have even greater leeway.
Construction is a big industry that often takes a hardline no for legal weed. The danger is not only to the person using, but workers around them, the company bottom line, the project as a whole if the jobsite is shut down due to an accident investigation, workers are fired or forced into family leave etc.
Each states laws vary slightly, some are more balanced, others give employers much more leeway, or have yet to be challenged in court. In some places you cannot fire someone for medical usage unless they cannot be taken off of high risk jobs and put behind a desk, or they have to be offered family leave first.
Many industries are recommending that the only approach to marijuana is a hardline no. I can virtually guarantee if it becomes legal, the worst industry will become deliveries (amazon, pizza, grubhub, etc). Those are stressful, crappy jobs, likely already with high use of cigarettes and pot), and a job that's hard to regulate, and a job market that's expanding (For now. I for one welcome our new robot deliveries)
Also, the two main chemicals in marijuana that have the most effects are CBD and THC. THC gets you high, CBD doesn't. CBD is usually the part attributed to any healthy effects. THC is very rarely, if ever, associated with the good effects and often is found to cause problems. There's other chemicals too, but those are the big ones that get talked about.
I actually agree with Darrin for once. There are people who have not used it because its illegal. Legalizing it will grow the number of users. By how much, I'm not sure. I won't ever use smoke it, or use it to get high, but if it treated a medical condition better than other drugs, I'm not against that.
Also, let me let you in on a big lie going around. "The majority of people support legalization". While this may be true in some areas, or by some surveys, almost every report claiming this counts everything from decriminalization to medical marijuana, to full on recreational marijuana in the "legalization" bucket. There's been a few outlets which have covered this.
Recreational usually has below a majority, while medical usage in some form, has a high majority of people in support for it.
You have to actually read the survey questions, not just the headline. I'm in favor of medical use and re-scheduling it to allow it to be studied, but I am not in favor of recreational legalization.
More to your point, I believe the research has shown that the actual true "gateway drug" is not pot, but nicotine. "Now, a new study by researchers at Columbia University's Mailman School of Public Health and the Graduate School of Public Health and Health Policy, City University of New York, found that cigarette smokers are 10 times more likely to use marijuana on a daily basis. Marijuana use occurred nearly exclusively among current cigarette smokers—daily or non-daily smokers—compared with former smokers and those who have never smoked. ...Nearly one-third of youth who smoke cigarettes reported using cannabis every day. In contrast, less than 1 percent of youth who did not use cigarettes reported daily cannabis use. We are not aware of any previous reports illustrating that daily cannabis use in youths occurs nearly exclusively among those who smoke cigarettes."
Quite honestly, the only reason pot is considered a "gateway drug" is because people buying it are interacting with dealers that have access to other drugs as well that may get pushed onto the user.
Very good information alpha1beta, thank you, and I too actually agree with you on this one too.
My question is why don't companies do that about alcohol? or is it just because it doesn't stay in your system as long?
Please excuse my ignorance, but I don't know much about weed
Show up at work drunk...they have to put you in rehab before they can fire you...but you have to self identify as a drunk
I get that bug, but this isn't a being high vs being drunk question
From my understanding weed stays in your system for up to 30 days...alcohol, not so much....
The big differences between alcohol and weed is how long it affects you, how it affects people, and how long its detectable.
Alcohol is detectable really only while it affects you, and people have the same reactions to it. You can get drunk at night, and beyond a nasty headache, be fine to be at the job the next day - you're not impaired and you won't test positive (unless you are REALLY drunk).
Weed stays in your system for up to around a month. Right away vs. a month will show up differently, but its hard to say if someone used marijuana last night, just before work, or on the weekend.
The technology is getting better. Last I was aware, a handful of companies were working on tests, 2 were having pretty decent success. Testing requires drawing blood currently, which also makes it more difficult and time consuming to do at a traffic stop.
Marijuana also doesn't affect everyone the same, ranging from absolutely nothing to full on hallucinations. Marijuana may also result in effects that really aren't noticeable, such as slowed response to stimuli. On a jobsite, this could be fatal, and can't always be spotted ahead of time, like alcohol impairment can.
The long term effects are mostly unknown, but some science suggestions it can lead to a number of serious, chronic mental health problems including schizophrenia.
Possible the worst thing is that the people who want legal weed, believe its 100% harmless. Even scarier, most don't believe using while pregnant has any side effects, but science agrees it causes low birth weight and likely other problems. A problem from birth, could cost tens of millions of dollars to treat over a lifetime, stressing the healthcare system, public schools and who knows what else - all for something that's very preventable.
You can get drunk at night, and beyond a nasty headache, be fine to be at the job the next day - you're not impaired and you won't test positive (unless you are REALLY drunk).
Sorry, so not true
EtG Alcohol Testing – 80 Hour Look Back
My brother had outrageously high cholesterol. Was allergic to statins. After eating his homemade, special coconut butter, for three months, his cholesterol dropped over 100 pts. It doesn’t need to be smoked to have a positive effect. His wife? Her hot flashes stopped and both of them have been in a much better mood. They are in their 60s and they say nothing works better for pain relief, as well as an appetite stimulator. His wife has been sick with stomach problems, for years, prior. Even their marriage is on the mend, now that they tossed all their booze, steroids and antidepressants. Of course, I would NEVER recommend any changes without talking to a doctor, first. Just throwing this out there, in case someone wants to look into it. Weed doesn’t need to be smoked to have a positive effect. It’s very harsh on the lungs. Once all these oils, drinks and other versions become more available, non smokers, or folks who want to preserve their lungs, will be offered more choices on how they want to medicate themselves, without getting cirrhosis of the liver. I say LEGALIZE weed. The government would save billions$ just from emptying out the prisons. Add tax to the sale? That’s a lot of revenue for Medicare and social security, as that’s next on the federal chopping block. ( I saw the new budget) Driving? Same penalties as drunk driving. See the side effects, of the new prescriptions, these days? HOOVAAA...I’ll choose the plant. Don’t want it? Don’t use it. I don’t use alcohol, but I won’t judge someone who does, as long as they are not putting others in danger. Just like I tell folks who drink, text, use makeup, eat, have conference calls, etc whilst driving, I tell my brother “no driving while ingesting your medication.”
Did someone just compare legalizing cannabis to doing away with gun control? Wow
Legal, Taxes, and tariffs....we need cannabis to be legal. Get on board or get left behind.
Not one credible reason to stop or vote no has been produced. I want lower taxes, this revenue stream will give us the ability to have lower taxes and more commerce in NJ.
Create jobs or create cry babies, give me the jobs!
"I want lower taxes, this revenue stream will give us the ability to have lower taxes and more commerce in NJ. "
N.J. and Lower Taxes. Bwahhaaaaaaaaaaaaaawhaaaaaaaaaaaaahaaaaaahaaaaaaaaaaaaa. He said N.J. and lower taxes.
Gotta catch my breath now. Damn that was funny.
Our state will text the hell out of it. Will we see Revenue? Probably not. The cost of getting a license to dispense will be astronomical, as are the liquor licenses. Processing properly cost a lot, and they still can't monitor amounts properly, so lots of lawsuits will be coming in as people go to the ER with psychotic episodes and heart issues.
If you want to smoke pot, grow your own, dry it, and smoke it. Give it to the government, and you will be consuming so many more pesticides.
Yes it will, read about other states that have done it.
And beyond Tax impact, this will create jobs
And beyond jobs, this will improve tourism
Its no different than the boom to main st we have seen with our craft beer and restaurants.
Or bury your head in the sand and say no for no good reason...just like the last two comments.
Start looking for ways to make things work rather than nay say...
From the Epoch Times, take it for what it's worth. And if you think it will lower taxes, you must be smoking some good stuff.
Kb, Epoch Times is a right center publication from US Falung Gung followerers with mixed factual reporting failing mostly on Communism editorials and pseudo science pieces.
I would double check the science on this one.
Still waiting for ab’s sources.....;-(. That was some amazing facts being shared.
More ER visits equals more Health Care related jobs, again good for the economy.
Just because its legal should not exonerate someone from self control and understanding limits.
Great logic on the no argument, maybe we should get ride of automobiles as well.
Anybody who thinks anything will ever lower taxes in NJ is smoking something. Every time there is a new revenue source, a new spending spree occurs.
So the overall traffic accident l rate up 6; states with legal pot up about 6%, although some studies say that’s crashes, not fatalities —- so, there might be correlation, but it’s too early, too little data to prove causation.
I am betting the same is true for ER visits unless you read the Falung Gung daily....
And no, our taxes should not go down, the debt should go down....that would be the adult choice.
Lots of FUD exhibited on this one that seems like fear over something quite tame currently turning somewhat useful, albeit stoner, citizens into criminals over what.....getting high? Catching a buzz? Seems like a costly way to make a point over a nothing burger.
The states legalizing have not fallen off the Earth. It has not been a gateway to further crime. Casinos probably cause more damage to society than this stuff. Cigarettes, liquor, even skateboarding probably more dangerous. Just not sure what these legislators are frightened of.
The debt will never go down either, because they'll just keep borrowing. They can't help themselves.
The they is us, and if you have a problem with it you should vote according or actually take part in a civic office...stop the Monday morning quarterback.
Taxes, Revenue, Debt repayment...it can be one or a combo; point is we need to take advantage of this opportunity!
Tax it and pay teachers/first res-ponders more money...maybe invest in our infrastructure.
So many opportunities here Colorado had sale of over $1B with tax revenue of over $200M. We are missing out.
I bet you thought bringing gambling to AC was going to transform the state too.
Yes...more emergency room visits means more healthcare jobs, and higher insurance premiums to pay for it. Higher auto insurance because of the higher liability (already a thing in Colorado). The Lancet report about psychosis and pot smoking. Last year's report about the long term affects of pot smoking, especially on the young. Kids coming to school with pot laced candy and handing it out. Sure...no reason to think that this may not be in the interest of "the common good"...nope, not at all.
...and for you fellow dystopians, look up "soma" and how it was used in "Brave New World".
"The they is us, and if you have a problem with it you should vote according or actually take part in a civic office...stop the Monday morning quarterback."
Oh, believe me, I vote accordingly. I just wish everyone else would. It's time to get these career politicians out of office and get some new blood in there. Term limits would be a dream come true.
brave New world is a fine cautionary tale. Some might argue all the RX drugs are the real soma. This is a unique perspective that is given little examination these days by either side of the debate. What do you guys think ? https://youtu.be/nLsCC0LZxkY
New Republican, regarding the lowering of taxes - forget it. What is happening with the higher gasoline tax we are now paying? Are your roads in better shape than mine because mine suck. The one thing NJ had was a lower gas tax so of course that had to go. I am sure those $$$$ signs that Murph had in his eyes from pot was already spent and not for lowering taxes but for new programs. Try running your household the way our politicians run our State. Spend before you have it. So for many reasons, I am pleased pot was not voted in. We sure don't need a bigger government with more handouts, we need a more efficient one.
the bill under consideration still prohibits citizens from growing their own, that's still illegal, NJ will not allow us to grow our own, that needs to be fixed
How would the state tax pot that was homegrown since the whole reason to legalize it is to raise revenue from taxing it ? No one is posting stoned are they ?
Who says they need to tax it if you
Grow it yourself? When you sell it that’s when the taxation takes place.
Plants do come from seeds or clones. You could tax those if you want. But really?
SD, I stated take it for what it's worth regarding the article in the Epoch Times. I understand their political beliefs that's why I mentioned it.
"I want lower taxes, this revenue stream will give us the ability to have lower taxes and more commerce in NJ.
Create jobs or create cry babies, give me the jobs!
The New Republican "
So a Republican, the party against taxation and government, wants taxation and government involvement against one group, to take their money and then wants lower taxation for his/her group.
Never thought the Republican party stood for this, but this is the New Republican party I guess.
Four people, I personally know, have died from alcohol related illnesses, before age 50! No vehicles involved, just the usual such as seizures, cirrhosis of the liver, and other organ failure. Not one single person, that I’ve ever known, has died or been admitted to the hospital for weed. I don’t get all the hypocrisy. It’s a win for the state (if the loot doesn’t get stolen) and a win for patients and other adults that want a little freedom. Humans want to feel good. If one can’t achieve that, without help, then it’s considered BAD?!...unless it’s alcohol. 100% grain alcohol will kill a person(s) before the bottle is empty. It’s readily available, legally, right down the street. Nice!
Lowering taxes should not be a reason to approve. The root cause of this is excessive spending by the public sector. I believe we all know drinking a bottle of grain alcohol will kill you...
callit...... That new republican shares no view with the republican party in power. Its just a HL name.
Just because you haven't seen it, doesn't mean it's not happening - re: ER visits due to MJ. Look further up at my link to CHS. Once legalized, this is going to happen more often, among other issues. Personally I'm in favor of legalization and to let people make their own decision on whether to use or not, as long as they don't toke and drive, just as people shouldn't be drinking and driving. As I've also noted, they're working on tests to be able to determine if you're under the influence, but they currently have no way to tell the way they do with alcohol.
Even the alco tests are a bit flawed. Different people process absorb it into their systems at differing rates and they process and remove it from their systems at differing rates as well. Everyone's liver functions and processes alcohol at a different rate. A Breathalyzer can't tell as well as a BAC test and even then, MADD has lobbied successfully to bring the standard down from what it was and getting the drinking age raised in many places. It used to be 21 in many places before Vietnam, when people asked why should they be able to go out and die for their country when they couldn't even have a beer legally (or vote). Both got changed to 18, but then MADD got the drinking age raised again. Let's see when the next cycle goes around...or if it does.
Personally I think decriminalizing small amounts (for personal use) would be a good first start. After the studies are done with the States that have legalized it, then make a more informed decision rather than just jumping on the bandwagon. Too many people are in jail for small amounts of weed and it's a waste of taxpayer money and stigmatizes people for the rest of their life insofar as having an arrest on their record simply because they liked to relax by smoking a J. Plus I've never heard of anyone growing "pot-muscles" in the way that people grow "beer-muscles"
As for my story, I have no need for weed (does nothing for me), but have had friends that smoked from rarely to heavily, one of whom died from lung cancer from her combined heavy weed and tobacco smoking. When I was younger I drank here and there, sometimes a bit more than I should have, but never to the point of blacking out or doing something and not remembering it, nor physically or sexually violating anyone. Around age 30 I made a decision to drink at home almost exclusively. I would much rather be a DD and make sure all my friends that have been drinking are able to get home safely. I can have a good time without being drunk myself.
It's important to be a responsible and reasoned individual and take your vices in moderation. Hopefully the State of NJ will take measured steps as a path towards legalization rather than just go full boat legal, but then Murphy wants that money to spend... .
Doctor...you are a coward. Doctor of what Socialism. Who are you to make calls on this board?
Anyway. I want our taxes lowered or to just take a pause of the ongoing rise. Who else has a solid idea for our state to gain Hundreds of Millions of revenue?
For those that say the money is already spent, where is it going from now that this has been postponed?
Come on Phil, you're really reaching...… look at the numbers. very low. look at the cure --- abstinence. Since reefer is not physically addictive, this is not really a tough row to hoe.....
Although more study should be done since I am pretty sure this is due primarily to the stronger blends being produced. Otherwise, we would have seen this hundreds of years ago......or at least by 1973.... Like many things, our tolerance builds to the stronger stuff, the thc attaches to our cells for longer periods of time than most drugs, and when we hit the tipping point, we puke...…just my guess of course since no one has really done much study. And the numbers might be too low still to study well. Probably just need to understand more, adjust the blend, and we be fine.
DUI's --- of course. Breadth testing is almost here, good ole field testing still works, and is fun. But we need guidelines as to what is a pot DUI, better testing, but really --- again the numbers are pretty low, so is the risk.
These guys are wimps for not moving ahead on this. Feel our pain and let our people go...….
The vote really isn’t about legalizing, which is why NJ won’t separate the 3 bills, It is really about the projected tax revenue. NJ can use that projection to borrow money and put the state in even more debt. This same thing has been done in the past with other tax projections that didn’t materialize.
NJ might try another attempt to vote again in May (and will only vote if they have enough votes for it to pass) (They have roughly 6 weeks to get 2 - 3 state senators to flip)… If not then they wont try again until after the election …
I strongly disagree with this becoming legal in this state and do not follow your logic at all SD.
You claim that people driving under the influence of pot is not a current issue? Are you kidding me???
.....but if it could only save one life........yeah, that stance went out the window real quick on this one!
So Darrin the prohibitionist is for banning alcohol? I think alcohol leads the pack when it comes to impaired drivers.
Wake up buddy it's everywhere and legal or not people use it. Clutching of pearls if I ever heard it.
I did not say any of that Darrin.
And why would you care about my logic? Thinking of changing view? Lame attempt at conversation? Or Just looking for a verbal tussle?
Given your feelings, why would you even bother to address me, much less my viewpoint. Much less to as grossly misinterpret as you have.
I got nothing; you win!
The fact is that people have been fed such lies for so long. The same people embrace alcohol despite it's social issues. The most outspoken people against cannabis have never even tried cannabis, they have no basis of comparison.
The bigger issue is why people have the need to do drugs in the first place. If you’re that mentally unstable with your life that you need to resort to drugs and alcohol, you should be seeking medical help.
For those that say it’s for medicinal use, I’m sure they can replicate the same type of drug in a pill form or shot.
Yap. You advocate pills and intravenous drug use. But then decry doing ‘drugs’. I think you have some thinking to do. Since the beginning of man humans have altered their mental physical and spiritual state. Why does law created by man or other stipulations that you impose make a bit of difference?
I guess by that logic opioids are a good thing because they come in a pill. Your mother's little helper logic is amazing.
And of course your purity as you consume nothing on a social level. And hey if that's true, who cares and why judge. You can live your life as you choose. But to keep with the stigmata that people that use cannabis are druggies is a bit foolish. You'd be surprised by the walks of life that use it and how well adjusted members of society they are.
Are you the kind of person who overhears friends or co-workers talk about how they went out for drinks or went home and relaxed with some wine and a movie? Do you judge them the same as a guy or gal who smoked some pot to unwind after a day of working? I think way too much hypocritical logic working here.
Wake up, folks.
Marijuana is one of the safest drugs you can consume. That's not to say it doesn't come with risks - of course some people will have an adverse reaction, make bad decisions, and abuse it. Just look at alcohol - and the host of deaths, diseases, and accidents that go along with it's use. EDUCATE people how to use marijuana safely, like we do with alcohol.
Big Pharma doesn't want legal weed. People will stop gobbling up the variety of pain killers, anti-anxiety, anti-depressant meds they push into the market. You want to kill big pharma? Make weed legal.
All those criminals you all worry about? The drug cartels? If you want them out of business - take away their black market. Make weed affordable and accessible, and people will stop texting their local drug dealer knowing it's safer to acquire it elsewhere.
Think about all of the money the state would make on tax. All those potholes you complain about? Bridges falling apart? Public school systems failing? For a state as densely populated as NJ - the revenue could be astronomical, highly benefiting the state. Talk about tax dollars at work.
It's pretty simple. The marijuana prohibition has gone on too long. Anyone against marijuana legalization at this point is just ignorant to reality.
And look how well the government doesn’t correct the issues with the astronomical taxation they have already imposed.
Holy hell Yap-
"The bigger issue is why people have the need to do drugs in the first place. If you’re that mentally unstable with your life that you need to resort to drugs and alcohol, you should be seeking medical help."
You've never had a beer? A glass of wine? A cigar? How about sex?
We are known as the “Garden State” We need to grow the best weed in the world and attract tourist... I am telling you let the free market at this the small businesses - the small growers and if you can grow the best stuff they money will come...
I do not drink wine to reach an altered state. I like the taste; i enjoy the regional and other differences, and sure, a little buzz is always a nice ice breaker.
I would have to imagine the same is true for a number of smokers.
I have yet to see an ugly, abusive, falling down stoner, but many a lousy drunk.
Live and let live. Why keep locking them up.
This state has lotteries both state and national , casinos , and recently has gotten legalized sports betting . The state debt is still over 200 billion , legalizing pot won't change that . If you like pot keep doing what you are doing , legalizing it won't put a dent in the state debt and you won't lose your rights to own firearms . Governor Goofy Teeth has misled you !
Actually you did say it SD
@SD "but really --- again the numbers are pretty low, so is the risk."
And I thought a forum was for having discussions with those who have different opinions then yours....maybe I was wrong?? I just find it astonishing how "for" this you are. Considering your viewpoints on other topics that, lets just say, that could potentially endanger other people, you seem to want a free for all on this one, even backing that with statements such as I quoted above.....little risk...so why not!?? Yeah well there is little risk in many other things we have discussed, but you used the "if it could save one life" quote....sort of wondering why you care about one thing, but not another? Seems hypocritically to me personally.
Sam, It's not just driving impaired, its the whole picture.I could essentially drink a alcoholic beverage on a sidewalk without bothering anyone....try doing that with pot...I find the smell very offensive personally, more so then cigarettes...which I also dislike. If someone is smoking in the vicinity of me.....I smell it. In Hackettstown, I have smelt it coming from multiple houses away....I shouldn't have to smell pot when I am on my property, or on public property. At least cigarettes don't travel like that.
I don't want the smoke around my kids, not cigarette, not vape, not pot
Pot especially so due to the contact high it is capable of.
So ignorant Darrin. People can vape, or eat an editable on a sidewalk and you'd never know. Probably are already doing it.
If I'm on my property and want to drink a beer, smoke a cigar or smoke some weed, tough for you. Sometimes I have to put up with people cooking all sorts of gross food outdoors and put up with the smell. And cigarette smoke travels and clings to everything. And if you're smelling that much weed in town then it proves my point even more.
No reason to be rude Sam.
Edibles are a different story, I am fine with that as it does not affect those around you.
You seem to be purposely ignoring the little know fact of "contact high" The attitude of Too bad you smell it is one thing, but too bad you are affected by what I am doing....is a complete other, and that is where this whole thing can no longer be compared to drinking, or smoking a cig....its a different animal.
I take it, by your statements, you are not a very "respectful" neighbor to those around you.....
Oh, Darrin. How wrong you are... I can only hope that when the dispensaries finally open up, you waltz on in and change your life.
I'm totally respectful. You would need to be in extreme proximity and ingest a whole lot of smoke to get a contact high. And maybe even at that.
I highly doubt you've contacted any high from your neighbors several houses down.
This is clearly the case of another who's drunk the koolaid of fear from the "just say no" campaigns. Get educated a bit before you say things that sound like they would come out of Nixon's mouth.
The fact that one can go to Zigmeister and booze up and I have to smell booze and watch people make fools of themselves on said booze doesn't give me the right to say it shouldn't exist. If I don't like it I don't go.
But you can't stop people from doing what they want in the privacy of their home. If you smell it you smell it. Your not going to get a contact high that's just ridiculous.
Thanks guys, I simply did not realize that was a fallacy.
Still don’t wanna smell it though....smells like farts to me. And I certainly don’t want smoke of any kind around my children.
Feel free to do why you want in your own home, as long as it does not affect others.
And really?? “Smell” booze....that’s quite a reach there buddy when comparing the two......
Cigarette smoke does directly effect other people, that’s why there are laws in place concerning smoking in public. I’m sure pot smoking would have the same laws.
As far as drinking, it can indirectly and directly effect other people. I’m not talking about responsible people. I’m talking about the careless ones and the loaded violent drinkers.
Yes I did say it was low risk because the numbers are low but it’s your addition of the concept that if it could save one life tie in where you went off the rails as you start making up things to fit your narrative. Just another bully picking a fight.
But I still come back to why are you even discussing it with me at all? Making stuff up, insulting me, why do you even bother. You don’t want to discuss, you just want to pick a fight. Move on, you got plenty of others to tussle with. You win, you’re right, I give, now, move on.
New Jersey Police Will No Longer Train Drug Dogs to Sniff Out Weed
Yes that is correct ... Even laws enforcement knows the change is going to happen ...
SD please point out where I "insulted" you....please do....if you can find it I can apologize
Excuse me for carrying a viewpoint of yours over from (multiple) other threads....It is interesting that every time someone treats you EXACTLY how you treat others on this forum you get all up in arms
You are posting on a public forum....people discuss....if you don't want people to discuss your posts....don't post
People have a 9th amendment right to self medicate or take any drug they choose.
However, you can absolutely not drive or operate machinery while under its influence.
It is a lot more dangerous than alcohol (unless you're drunk) and even opiate pain killers are usually safe to drive under unless you're very sensitive to the effect(you test yourself to see how your body reacts)
Cops use dogs as a pretext to do warrant less searches.They claim that the dog smelled something.
If they don't have any probable cause to arrest someone they can't search a car without permission(they can if you're arrested eg, DWI)
If for some reason like profiling they suspect something and don't have permission they just get the dog and claim he smelled something.
And even if they don't use dogs to sniff out cannabis there are still other drugs they can sniff for.
Agreed - what New Jersey’s AG is beginning to do is phase out a K9 keying on cannabis as probable cause for a warrantless search.
That’s a trend towards decriminalizing it.
Once a dog learns to find cannabis it can not un-learn it … so the dogs will be used in schools and other place were cannabis is not allowed …
For the life of me, I can not understand why some continue to push obsessively for further discussion when they neither like the poster or the sentiments? Even to the point of waving off requests not to continue or even begging to apologize for some unseen slight. Just can’t see the point.
Don’t bogart that joint my friend, pass it over to me......
I guess you can smoke 'em if you got 'em now in NJ.
Not to be a Debbie Downer on your High Times, but:
...Still, there a few other hurdles to cross before the high times can begin.
...The Garden State still needs to license new dispensaries to meet the needs for the 100,000 medical marijuana patients
...Experts told NJ.com recreational sales could start in late 2021 but those predictions came before the drawn-out debates on civil penalties
...The Cannabis Regulatory Commission, which will oversee the industry, has six months to enact their rules and regulations before it’ll start accepting new licensees for recreational businesses.
...In the meantime, the public shouldn’t be facing any repercussions if they’re caught with pot they purchased from the neighborhood dope slinger.
Up to 6 oz legal to possess. You’re going to see a lot of people “gardening” this spring. 2021 Fall harvest is going to be insane in NJ
6 days ago
the Bills signed yesterday do not allow for home growing, even with a medical card.
If you get caught growing, they weigh the entire plant(s), too... so that 6-ounce exemption is out the window.
I don't smoke... but find it funny it's legal if you pay the gov for it, but illegal to grow your own.
That's not decriminalization, that is manipulation.
If it is legal, there should no strings.. just like I can make my own beer or wine.
A lesser-known result of the bills signed into law yesterday is that underage drinking and marijuana possession have become decriminalized as well. All they can do is give you a "warning", lol.
That’s all I got as a kid...
Josh, give it time, this needs to settle in first. Make a tax paying industry, then loosen up the restrictions some.
Given big tobacco’s play, I’m more afraid of extraordinary strength levels, additives, and delivery systems. If they do weed like they did tobacco, might be like going from beer to grain alcohol delivered via beer bongs.
With a growers tax starting at $10 an ounce gradually increasing to $60 an ounce..that will probably make it much more expensive than tobacco
EDITOR’S NOTE: NJ Cannabis Insider is hosting a two-day business and networking conference March 9-10, featuring some of the state’s most prominent industry leaders. Tickets are limited. New Jersey Gov. Phil Murphy on Monday signed three bills int...
6 days ago
It’s really not a growers tax it that it’s applied at time of sale, not harvest. Not sure in middlemen ate charges, just the retail buyer.
Just like gas, gambling, tobacco, sometimes called a sin tax, it’s technically an excise tax. Fancy words for fixed fee although in this case it’s graduated with the higher tax charged on thr liwer price. IOW, the good stuff for $350 an oz and above get the $10 tax and a $200 oz gets the $60 tax. See it pays to get higher ;-)
Plenty of places to buy it tax free. And now that dealers can carry 6 ounces or less the delivery channels are plentiful. It’s been legal to me for 30 years.
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