So much for $15 an hour
Companies develop AI technologies
At this fast food drive through, the person taking your order might not be a person at all. https://tiny.iavian.net/rfu9
Bug3Good up sell a lot of fries to pay for a half a million dollar IVR food ordering robot.
Agust The robot is more likely to get an order right, so I'm all for it. Plus, those are crap jobs that humans don't need to do.
I for one welcome our new burger flipping overlords.
alpha1beta You wouldn't need a robot...just a computer with voice recognition software...something phone systems have been using for years and years
"The robot is more likely to get an order right, so I'm all for it"
HA!! agreed!
JeffersonRepub With voice recognition you will be screaming CHEESEBURGER instead of REPRESENTATIVE and it will say "I'm sorry, I didn't catch that." lol
somechik 
3wbdwnj Lmao! I always scream representative any time I get a phone tree! Like, none my questions are so simple as to follow prompts. If they were I wouldn’t need to call!
And anyway, take that you, you, you cheap a** company trying to save money by making me jump through hoops! Don’t you charge enough to cover that expense?
RAS Wow, JR, we agree on something! I'm resisting the urge to hug you.
The best case will be apps and touchscreens. Apps remove the risk of credit card skimmers and leaving your card, and both usually let you order exactly what you want and lets the person, or robot doing the work see exactly what you ordered. These terminals can speak the blind and could use voice control, but I'd rather fight with a self checkout machine than try that.
I'd rather order through an app any day. The only problem with apps (Grubhub, etc) is when the stupid humans don't program in all options. McD's in town has never not screwed up an order, but I've never had a screw up when ordering through an app.
Want $15 bucks an hour? Try learning a trade or a skill that will increase your value to a company!
Good for the robot! I hope he spends his check well.
Maybe if teenagers actually worked at these jobs to earn their own pocket money (as was the original intention) this ridiculous $15 an hour wage would not have been made into law.
Keri $15 by 2024....
Drive through? Put it in at the counter: at my table, on my phone—-I’m in! Just remember to put the damn straws and napkins in the bag.
I’m convinced the new screen-based menus use facial recognition through my windsheild, to change items and prices as I drive up to the board. I mean how else would they know to offer The Big StrangerdangerMac for $22. Still order one every time. Spicey but takes way too long to finish. Just keeps going and going ..... And then it keeps coming back, over and over.....
StrangerDanger That’ll be fun...until they get it right. Me: “ hamburger, extra pickles, please.” Bot:”Did you say cheese?” Me “Oh, sorry, didn’t know I was talking to a robot. I said please.” And what the heck am I apologizing to a darn robot, for...LOL
These big successful restaurants have been profitable prior to bots. But, one can never get enough money, apparently. Call me old fashioned, but I’d rather see a high school kid, learning how to talk and deal with people (a skill needed later in life), then another job killer. Technology kills more jobs than it creates. Oh well, I just have to roll with the times. Get the matrix ready.
Guilty-Remnant i don't have any apps on my phone because i don't have a phone that can run them
I don't have to worry about credit card skimmers when using cash, Cash is King, don't give it up so easily It's not a good thing to get rid of cash transactions.
GreyHawk 
Botheredbyuu2 Uh.....good point. I would guess you can still use cash if using an automated ordering system. But good point.
I prefer credit cards over cash; safer.
Now if we could get robots to pick that lettuce,we would have no jobs for kids or illegals....
And I'm sure we will be pumping our own gas in 4 years. Will they do away with the tip jar at DD??
auntiel Not being from NJ, I always thought it was odd you guys can't pump your own gas. The rest of the country does. It's really not that difficult...lol
I'd gladly pump my own gas for a drop in the gas price (since you don't have to pay an attendant to do it)
The price of essential things, like food, healthcare, and fuel will NEVER drop. Electronics will. Like calculators did.
Problem, once again is greed. The prices will continue to rise, as more jobs go away and the ones that stay will pay less and less. Most Pharmacists , lawyers, doctors and accountants are making less than in the 70’s...proportionately to now.
Pharmacists have been mostly corporate for a while now. Independent drug stores cannot compete.
Doctors are becoming employees as well.
Lawyers not so much, they are not corporate, nor can they be outsourced.
What you WANT is becoming less expensive, like your TV.
What you NEED is becoming more expensive, like your housing, medical insurance.
There are less and less ways to cut the budget and still survive.
dodgebaal https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fsVI3EmUnQ
https://reason.com/reasontv/2018/10/11/the-15-minimum-wage-car-washes
here is how this worked out in Brooklyn
skippy So what happens in the scenario where automation replaces the unskilled labor workforce? So we just institute universal basic income and tax the rest of us to death to pay for it? Meanwhile the remainder of skilled workers are suffering under the burden of higher cost of living to compensate for the R&D costs?
Serious question
Ok so the plan is to force companies to spend millions on automation - and ensure high taxes to pay for an unskilled / unwilling class (taken directly from the green new deal) to have an income.. that’s certainly an incentive to keep businesses in operation.
Serious answer --- we've been on this trajectory for decades. We either change how we educate, how we create, or we end up where you suggested Skip.
At this point, there will always be cheaper factory labor than America can provide. They ain't coming back. They can't. We're too productive. Technology has been shrinking these jobs since Henry Ford started the process. The voice technology discussed here did away with switchboards and receptionists years ago. When I started we had entire print shops just to do charts and reports we blast out from our PC's and digital printers. Our electronics factories now run in like 1/10th the floor space of a few decades ago and produce more product, just in my lifetime.
There are plenty of Vietnams that want to become North Korea or China who wants to be Japan who wants to be US. And they all will. Their job is easy, copy us. Our job is hard, create something new. We need to move on, more forward, and move into our next economy ---- out of the industrialized stage, through the current information age and into the Innovation Age. It's a name I just came up with, catchy eh?
Issue is how do you process innovation? How do you educate for it? What do your innovation factories look like? It's a difficult, complex task, yet one thing is sure. The stupid will be left behind. Even for these factories, we will need smart, educated, well-trained folks, but different from today. Factories might only build a product for a moment before sending it overseas to a newly industrialized nation for mass production. How to think will be more important than knowing the answer for example. That's a big change in education.
There will still be the need for craftspeople --- good, middle class jobs taking care of our infrastructure needs like plumbing, carpentry, autos, electric and the such. Beyond product changes, hard to automate those jobs. And sure, basic labor jobs too, but will be less than today, and shrinking as AI and machines do the heavy lifting and fast-food deliveries.
But the real money, the heart of the economy will be in innovation and all the surround needed to make innovation a standard process driving our economy forward.
Won't matter to me; I will be elsewhere by that time :>)
Much of this is the stock market.
When most of us were young, normal people didn’t have stocks. It was something rich people played with.
But for quite a while now everything shifted- no pensions, but 401K, IRA, etc.
All those companies are being forced to show continual growth, increased numbers, quarterly reports, etc.
It is unnatural. You are only going to sell so many refrigerators, cars, tv, phones, couches, lawnmowers, etc.
Solution? Build everything cheaper, both in initial cost, and longevity before stuff breaks, but flashier appearence- charge more up front for bling, and either they sell you new parts or a entire new unit when it breaks waaay before it would have 30-40-50 years ago.
Great short term for the big investors, great for the high execs who won’t be around for the eventual consequences. Get your bonuses and jump ship to do it again, severence package, or retire.
Josh Robots build cars, but don't buy them or drive them.
Kiosks and apps help order food, but don't buy it or eat it.
Nobody is forcing corporations to automate; it's their reaction to a movement demanding fair compensation. These corporations pay little, if any, taxes and hoard wealth overseas. Yet somehow I am supposed to care about their welfare, Skippy?
And strangerdanger is even worse. "Innovation Age"? Blech. The only innovations corporations have come up with in the last twenty years are planned obsolescence and killing off organized labor. I have zero sympathy for these giants who, like Josh said, are now so completely beholden to their parasitic investors that they would rather kill the planet with pollution and wage starvation than give back even one single percent of their money to the people.
All these fast food places should use kiosks. They work at Quickcheck and Wawa. Why would you pay someone to take an order...
Metsman "only innovations corporations have come up with in the last twenty years are planned obsolescence and killing off organized labor." Well, no wonder the economy is in the tank....
My point is the industrial age has been long over. Any third world country, with lower labor rates, can handle mass production
The information age is cresting, still plenty life left, but cresting. Real question is what to do with all that info.
If you want to be where the margin is, where the profit is, that's in innovation; the art of creating new things. Might be as simple as the cell phone holder in your car or as complex as genome engineering. The point is, to succeed and to continue to have our way of economic life, the ability not only to create, to innovate, will be critical, it will be crucial to make innovation as efficient a process as Henry Ford made mass production efficient. That's going to take a lot of changes.
Or we can let Japan take over the lead......they are getting pretty close.
Personally, I don't see this. I mean Switzerland..... But hey, here's the list: https://www.wipo.int/pressroom/en/articles/2018/article_0005.html
Shoprite and Weis expanded their self checkout lanes...hiw long before the charge extra for a human cashier?
another issue no one addresses is positions in any company are compensated on a scale differentiating due to longevity, experience, and skill.
A 'c' level car mechanic may be making $15/hr now, 'b' may be making $20/hr, 'a' making $25/hr.
now that anyone with no experience comes in and automatically gets $15/hr, those other rates are going to be raised by default. this will raise the costs to everyone and you are back to now $15/hr not being enough.,
Whip Whip, you mean “rising tide lifts all boats” does not apply because the wage relationships stay the same.
While that is true; as long as inflation does not take place, does not matter. Eveyone is just able purchase more, which at the minimum wage level is a good thing IMO because, chances are, thet will buy more basics than luxuries.
However, since everyone has more money, inflation is easily possible as in demand goes up, price goes up, people have more money so they pay.
IMO, the concept of price stickiness will rule the day and raising the minimum wage, while lifting all lower tier wages, will not cause inflation by itself. The fact that wage realtionships may stay the same does not affect purchasing power.
Mcdonalds is already paying $12 per hour, Walmart 11 and target 12 without the government forcing their hand. Let basic economics play as it will. These part time retail jobs are not meant to be careers. They are low skilled positions meant to supplement other income.
Yap Bug3 - Wal-Mart going that way too.
All these self check out lanes, puts more people on unemployment. Disgusting! Big $ companies only care about their pockets, not their employees.
Looks like the tax payer will be the real loser for $15 mininum wage
The lifeguards and visitors guides at state parks. The entry-level employees at the county animal shelter. The interns at your local library. They’re all about to get pay raises, and it’s going to cost taxpayers one way or another. For years, busi...
http://www.nj.com/politics/2019/02/nj-is-hiking-the-minimum-wage-to-15-what-will-it-cost-taxpayers.html
Back in the early 80's I worked at Burger King. I started at $2.90 per hour. The openers (breakfast crew) during the week, was comprised of the owner/manager and a few local senior citizens who were bored and wanted to make some extra cash to supplement their SS checks, weekends it was us teenagers. The lunch crew was all the moms who wanted to work a few hours a week to make some extra cash while the kids were in school. After school the kids that worked the dinner shift got on the bus that stopped in front of the BK. All the moms would punch out to get home to their kids and the teenagers would take over from 3-closing.
NOBODY expected to live off that, pay for an apartment, raise a family or live the American Dream working at Burger King! It was considered a part time "extra money/something to do/learn how to work a job" temporary gig. I have no idea who came up with this cockamame idea that one can raise a family working this type of job. Where did this idea even come from? Didn't any of the people espousing this nonsense ever work a fast food job, pump gas, work at a bowling alley, etc, for basically beer money, as a teenager?
Now there won't BE ANY jobs for bored senior citizens, moms who want to work a few hours a week while the kids are in school or the HS kid who needs to learn how to get a job and work with people - everything is going to be automated...
Laurel The people complaining that increasing the minimum wage will increase the cost of things, and saying that minimum wage workers should just go get better paying more skilled jobs, should really heed their own advice. If you're so worried about having to pay more money for things, and getting a higher paying job is so easy, then go get one and it won't be an issue.
Reasonable It's called laziness Laurel. Some people don't want to go to school or learn a trade. And then you have some dummies that decide to have 5 kids by age 22... They expect to live off being a cashier at McDonalds. I remember going to a child support hearing several years ago and a guy there had 7 or 8 kids that he owed money for. Do these people ever hear of birth control or condoms?!
Reasonable you never disappoint with your ridiculous comments... If cost of living goes up then it cancels out the hike in minimum wage.
I think the whole minimum wage thing is b.s. If you don't like the pay at a job, simply don't take it.....the state should have no say in what businesses "have" to start workers at. If companies cannot be competitive with their salary, they will have no one working for them. The issues of not enough pay will fix itself real quick.
All this does is eliminate more jobs to be replaced with computers, and raises the cost of everything.
Darrin "everything is going to be automated..."
Was going to be anyway. Robots have been in factories for years, they are getting faster and less expensive, those jobs were gone anyway.
Same thing with kiosks, been around, but better touchscreens, software, cashless pay systems like ApplePay, etc.
Self checkout, been in Home Depot for years, supermarkets as well.
They don't need health insurance, they don't call out sick, they don't need payroll, etc.
The $15 dollar wage is not what put these things here, they were coming anyway, you can deduct them as a capital expense, you cannot do this with a human. Most of the time, technology does not eliminate totally, but will increase efficiency of the remaining workers that are not eliminated.
" If companies cannot be competitive with their salary, they will have no one working for them."
No, they will just look to foreign workers to do those jobs, like they have been doing for years with engineers- not just minimum wage earners.
Bring back sole proprietorship.
Another opinion I have...I don't even think there should be a mandate of wage because it makes everyone equal, whether you work well or not. What I mean by that is when the MW was really low, if you had an exceptional worker you can give him or her a nice raise. We had a guy that would work any shift (when he wasn't in school), never called out sick, kept his fry station spotless, would help out everyone on any board and was a basic suck-up to the managers. He kept getting raises and more raises because the management loved him. In this $15 per hour environment, there is not room for upward pay and NO incentive to be really good or go above and beyond. I knew, back then, that if I wanted a raise, I had to perform. The kids that sucked stayed at the bottom pay and the REALLY good kids were made "shift leaders" which basically meant nothing other than you were recognised for your fine work and your pay scale went up much quicker than the rest of us. I was never "shift leader" because I called out a lot and I was in a bunch of extra curricular things so I gave the manager a migraine every 2 weeks when he was doing the new schedule - unlike Brian, the perfect employee and major suck up. ☺
"I was never "shift leader" because I called out a lot and I was in a bunch of extra curricular things so I gave the manager a migraine every 2 weeks when he was doing the new schedule"
Kiosks and robots don't get migranes every 2 weeks, nor do they have the desire to do "extra curricular' things.
You wonder why a robot or kiosk is there to begin with? It's not the minimum wage.
You answered the question yourself.
Darrin,
Too bad Chevy and GM don't buy the good robots that Toyota and Subaru do.
GM scored badly in reliability. My guess it's not the robots.
It's the outsourced engineers who make less than the new minimum wage in NJ :-D
So much for Pro-Americans. CFA Institute discriminated against US citizens in favor of H-1Bs.
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-settles-claims-against-international-financial-association-discriminating
Similarly, if the industry that your family has worked for generations is going away then find something else to do. If there’s no jobs where you live then move. If you can’t afford your kids then don’t have them. All things that folks on the right will say, oh gee, the poor farmer, coal miner, what a travesty. Or, bring back manufacturing jobs or no abortions for any reason. Yeah, all for “personal responsibility” except when you’re not.
BTW, I have always been of the mind that minimum wage jobs are not meant to be a “living” wage. I worked fast food for 18 years and it was only when I finished school over a 13 year period that I finally got “ahead” by getting into the finance department in corporate. They paid for my bachelors and masters and I’m retiring from a six figure salary. I never whined about what I made in fast food- I knew that’s what it paid and wouldn’t really be what I needed to have a better life. It was damn hard to get out of it though but I did it! Working two jobs at times and going to school part time. Although the work is harder imo than any corporate job I’ve had! But, you go where the money is or suck it up. Or find yourself a way out of it no matter how long it takes.
dodgebaal,
All cars have gone down the crapper when it comes to reliability.
For every Chevy story, I can tell you a ford story or a dodge story.....It's not just GM
Here is the competition for your future STEM children. America is always for sale.
On April 2, 2008, the U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS) Secretary Michael Chertoff announced a 17-month extension to the Optional Practical Training for students in qualifying STEM fields. The Optional Practical Training extension was included in the rule-change commonly referred to as the H-1B Cap-Gap Regulations.[62][63] The OPT extension only benefits foreign STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering, or Mathematics) students and is not available to foreign students of other disciplines. The 17-month work-authorization extension allows the foreign STEM student to work up to 29 months in total on the student visa, allowing the STEM student multiple years to obtain an H-1B visa.[64][65] To be eligible for the 12-month work-permit, any bachelor's degree in any field of study is valid. For the 17-month OPT extension, a student must have received a STEM degree in one of the approved majors listed on the USCIS website.[66] The STEM extension can be combined with the cap-gap extension.[67]
dodgeball....so why then are some people screaming about a $15 dollar minimum wage. You just answered your own question too. The whole thing makes no sense. If companies are moving away from employing humans because they are too expensive, too much of a pain in the ass, require too many perks, cause aggravation and don't work as hard as an automated system -- then WHY THE HELL pick now to scream and strike for more money, if your a human. Please explain.
At least back in the day if you sucked they could just fire your ass without having to worry about being sued and if you were a stellar performer, they could give incentive pay and promotions to incentivise the best workers to stay.
I'm not sure what your argument for a $15 minimum wage actually is...? On one hand you say workers are too much aggravation and companies should go automation and on the other hand you say these annoying, needy, crappy workers should get paid more. You make no sense.
Darrin,
I admire your love for the American Corporations. It's very patriotic of you. I have at one time owned a vehicle from each of those manufacturers, and AMC as well.
I just find it amazing how the American worker at Toyota builds a reliable vehicle, yet at at an American brand the same worker is inept or incapable. Is it the water where they locate the factories?
Naah, I believe the workers are the same, it's the environment is different-the management, the corporate structure, the core mission.
"I'm not sure what your argument for a $15 minimum wage actually is."
"You make no sense."
Laurel,
It makes no sense to you because I never made an argument for a $15 minimum wage.
You made that all up in your head.
All I stated is that technology is going to eliminate employees over time, and this is going to increase, employees like you described yourself being one of the reasons.
Things are going to get interesting when more and more people, kids, older individuals, those who just are incapable of higher level work for whatever reason, are going to be put out of work and have no health benefits.
Grab the popcorn, sit back in your chair, and watch the show. At some point in your life you might become one of the characters..
dodgeball...so maybe it's me, but I still don't get your point. This is a thread about the minimum wage. We all know things are going automatic and have been for years. Anyone who's walked into a store or fast food place can clearly see that. So you were not making a point, just stating the obvious?
So you don't think that this whole push for a $15 minimum wage, health insurance paid by the employer for part time burger flippers, the lawsuits for discrimination every time you fire someone is not accelerating the speed at which employers are deciding to can the humans in favor of machines?
Most businesses want to run a profit -so if employees were more cost effective that's the way they would go. If a machine costs less than an employee at that register they will go for that. When something is about dollars and cents, it's a bad idea to start costing more.
This is a difficult problem providing "living wages" to low-income workers, part-time workers, and student workers simultaneously. On one hand, you don't want to pay people to starve, on another, you want to treat people equally, on yet another, it seems that student workers and part-timers could make less. I would love to see people make a living wage but want the lowest cost too.
Some people start from the notion that no self-respecting worker with aspirations of rising above would take or keep these jobs. Or that they are lazy bottom feeders who can't succeed. I think these are just the best jobs they can get at this time. So, don't they deserve a living wage?
The concept of a minimum wage is that it's the minimum LIVING wage to be above the poverty level; that's clearly not working. Is the answer just to raise the rate: I am not sure given the constituencies that the MW serves.
Let's add these facts to the stew.
What percentage of McD's, Wallmarters, etc. are getting food stamps, welfare, etc.
Answer: about 50%.
What percentage live in poverty
Answer: about 40%.
Now, there are all sorts of things you can say, including kill the entitlement and lower the poverty level ---- that will fix the payment problem, but if poverty levels are set correctly, then we allow people to be paid to exist below poverty. That seems a bit unfair.
But it's worse than that. Think about who is supplementing MW-worker pay. It's us, the taxpayers. You buy a $1 McD burger. And then you pay the worker's family $254 a month in food stamps. Crikey, the guy works in a restaurant and we're footing food stamps for him.... McD's even had a resource phone line set up to help workers apply for food stamps and other entitlements.
All taxpayers are subsidizing consumers who buy burgers from McD's who we subsidize as well so they can keep wages below poverty level. There's a few things just screwed up with that. Especially if you don't eat fast food.
So McD's shorts the worker on a living wage and we pick up the tab via taxpayer supported food stamps and other welfare programs. Wouldn't it be more cost effective to raise the minimum wage, get them off food stamps, pay more, but a fair price, for the burgers, but less for food stamps?
What about the hard working employees that have already worked their way up to $15, after starting at $10 or $11?
Now they raise everyone up to $12, $13 or $15 depending on the year - do the productive workers get a raise to $20? Probably not, especially at a small business.
So the unintended but very real effect is to disenfranchise the most productive workers.
But hey, that's a tenet of socialism!
Reggie Voter "So the unintended but very real effect is to disenfranchise the most productive workers."
So then let's just raise the minimum to $300/hour and everybody is happy!
I mean if raising minimum wage is good, then raising it more is better, right?
Mark Mc. Rising tide lifts all boats I would expect. At least over time. Might be cause for inflation but I bet “price stickiness” slows that.
Nope, I just see where we stop subsidizing these companies paying poverty-level wages. Enough with the hand-outs.
Food stamps or minimum wage should not be everyone's problem! All this is going to do is further illegal employment and end up losing taxes off the back end.
I do not understand why government assistance does not have a cut off. It should not be a option to take a low paying job and take food stamps for years to make the difference. Should be like unemployment....pay into it through taxes and take it for a limited time when. You need it.
I think most of these programs, in the majority of states, do have time limits and often, work requirements. That includes SNAP.
Where the limits stop is with kids. The kids get limitless.
StrangerDanger...I have tenants who have been on section 8 and SNAP for 23 years. I have another tenant who has been on some type of housing (various agencies, but now section8) since 1983 and now, her 3 grown daughters each have their own house in Washington, all 3 on section 8, individually - so that's 4 people from one family. They have no intention of bettering themselves or going off anything. Most of the section 8 tenants I have, have been on a housing program for an average of 11 years. Keep in mind, when you apply for section 8 that also entitles you to help with heating, electric, food stamps, free daycare for your kids, NJ FamilyCare (medicaid), and other benefits as well.
Darrin I agree with you. Also -- the minimum wage when I worked at Burger King, back in the day, was NOT a "living wage" either. Even back in 1981 nobody was "living on" $3.65 an hour - but nobody was on food stamps, section 8 Medicaid, etc. That's because they didn't expect to "live" on a burger flipper job.
When did the insane shift occur, that started people expecting a part time, 25 hour a week, job for teens and stay at home mom's/bored senior, become a "career"?
thomasnj Laurel people like you mentioned make me sick. My dad always worked 2 jobs when we were growing up. My mom worked as well. They did what needed to be done. There was no such thing as white privilege, just good clean hard work. I've also done what needs to be done. In addition to my regular job I consult on the side. I just shake my head at people who don't want to better themselves. There are plenty of one year certification programs out there for those that don't want to go to a 4 year college. You can learn a trade. You can join the military and learn a job skill. There's just no excuse for expecting a job flipping burgers to be a living wage...
SNAP work requirements and time limits for NJ. Remember, I said kids were exempt. Appears those over 50 are as well, at least in NJ. https://www.nj.gov/humanservices/dfd/programs/njsnap/ To be on SNAP for 23 years, you need to meet the exemptions. Otherwise, there is a time limit and you must work or attempt to work. https://www.lsnjlaw.org/Government-Aid-Services/Food-Hunger-Nutrition/Food-Stamps/Pages/SNAP-Requirements-Limits.aspx
Been that way since 1996 or so.
Section 8: no time limits
Welfare (TANF): "Families who receive TANF must get a job within two years. They might not get more money if they have another child. They can own no more than $2,000 in total assets. They can only receive TANF for five years or less in some states." https://www.thebalance.com/welfare-programs-definition-and-list-3305759
The election of obama...then the market collapsed...which brought forth the no more good jobs nonsense
The election of obama...then the market collapsed...which brought forth the no more good jobs nonsense
So we are just re writing history now? The market began to collapse in 2007 thanks to sub prime mortgage loans. The banks began to fail in 2008 with Sept 2008 the banking crisis hit the worst part and the bail out went into effect. The market bottomed out on 3/9/09. since then we had a 10 year bull market. Sorry you can't blame Obama for any of that but nice try.
Jim L Jim L: we can blame both sides over years of stupidity, but yes, Bush's watch. And he watched for 8 years. Likewise, while sub prime was a major culprit, we financially screwed our selves all over the place. Try https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_the_Great_Recession and even that is probably wrong. It's perhaps too complex for human comprehension. If not, then it wouldn't have happened :>(
Back to welfare...…..
Of course, I was against the 1996 time limits, etc. and, frankly, the results (how many dropped from the roles) were staggering. It was a Bill Clinton thing, invented and forced by Republicans, and in hindsight ---- seems to be the right thing, or roughly right at least. Changed the entire welfare payment paradigm. Yes, there are hardships, but it appears to have worked:
Section 8 is not timed, and perhaps requirements should be in place to do so.
"This research finds that the typical household that left assisted housing recently stayed for about 6 years. Differences between types of households are stark; elderly households stayed longer at 9 years; and disabled households stayed for about 5 years, while nonelderly families with children stayed for about 4 years. The length of stay has increased somewhat over time for all groups. The average length of stay in assisted housing grew for elderly households by 1.5, to 1.7 years, from 2000 to 2015. Households with disabilities saw their average stay grow by 1.2, to 1.7 years, during the same period. Nonelderly families with children experienced the smallest change; their average length of stay grew by 1.1 years." It's weird that those with more money stay longer.....
So, 23 years is outside the average; kids doing it forever even more so. But easily possible.
" Once admitted into one of the assisted housing programs, more than 90 percent of all assisted household remain in that housing through the first year. From 70 to 80 percent of households remain through the second year. The pace of leaving assisted housing continues but at a decreasing rate over time. About one-half of all assisted households leave by 4 to 6 years after entry, and about 80 percent leave by years 9 to 11." Apparently Laurel, you are in the last 20% with your tenant who, according to the stats, makes more than the average Section 8-er, which I can imagine would piss you off even more. Would me at least.
In a perfect world, we would investigate and retain the needy while booting those who should be able to get off Section 8. In a less perfect world, perhaps it is time to put some limitations on Section 8 for life.
I was not blaming obama for the collapse...the collapse was why obama was selling burger flipping jobs as careers...hence $15 an hour..
According to him the american dream of prosperity via a better job was over
Jim L.
The problem with the banks did not start with Obama, it started with the chipping away of Glass-Steagall, and finally when Bill Clinton allowed it to be repealed completely. After that, the floodgates opened, and no Republican in the middle attempted to stop it as there was plenty of money to be made. Obama got the storm that was created, but he let all of the actors get away-they were fish in a barrel, but all were let off in a courtroom. I always wonder if that is because he was one in the same, or if the bankers threatened to destroy America. I have no doubt they have the ability to do so, as financial war can be as destructive as physical war. White collar crime pays handsomely, don't ever commit Blue collar crime. There are no ethics at all in our current government.
"I was not blaming obama for the collapse...the collapse was why obama was selling burger flipping jobs as careers...hence $15 an hour.. According to him the american dream of prosperity via a better job was over"
Gee, I just never remember Obama saying that.....I do remember in the 2015 State of the Union: "And to everyone in this Congress who still refuses to raise the minimum wage, I say this: If you truly believe you could work full-time and support a family on less than $15,000 a year, go try it. If not, vote to give millions of the hardest-working people in America a raise.” He raised it for CONTRACT Federal Workers from $7.25 to $10.10, in 2014, not $15. And the US economy collapsed the next day...….not. I am not sure Obama EVER advocated $15, much less flipping burgers as a career. Trump immediately started hacking away at the $10.10 for contract workers disallowing it for National Park contract workers.
At $7.25 an hour, Trump is the number 1 US creator of below-poverty level jobs and attempting to expand his numbers. MAGA. The economic growth slowed in the 4th Q 2018..... Elsewhere he has been hacking away at wages lowering the value of the middle class by lowering mandatory minimum pay levels, overtime pay, and the like. Swell.
Obama, $15, burgers for life: seems to be Bug-legend...….
Costco's starting hourly wage will go to $15 an hour in March for new hires. No wonder they were voted the best company to work for. They offer exceptional full benefits even for part time employees!!
https://www.delish.com/food-news/a25475779/costco-best-company-culture/
Lenny Rock " Even back in 1981 nobody was "living on" $3.65 an hour - but nobody was on food stamps, section 8 Medicaid"
Sure they were. Plenty were. And well before 1981.
"They can own no more than $2,000 in total assets."
One Iphone, one 2006 Ford Focus w/158k on the clock, and a dresser full of used underwear and you are over the limit...
So, again, what is Costco going to do for the employees that have been working there for a few years and have worked their way up to $15?
Reggie voter
No different than a union shop where a new employee reaches top pay...everyone gets the same wage for the same job
So its better for folks to make less than to catch up to those who do beaches they deserve to work for poverty wages? Harsh.
The public is so naive. Did you really think that big companies such as McDonald's are going to just say "ok, everybody makes more money. Here take it from my pocket". NO WAY they are going to give up a penny. Although I feel for those who work for minimum wage jobs, remember that those jobs were created to give the public a product at low cost, to employ high school students to teach them responsibility, housewives who wanted a few bucks and seniors who wanted to fill some time. Those jobs were never meant to be main living wages. Expect to see more self checkouts, self-serve kiosks, higher prices and FEWER people working those minimum wage jobs. The wage increase is NOT the answer. It is just smoke and mirrors.
ccbw People need to get off their butts and get an education. Being lazy is not an option.
Huh If the state pushes its pension obligation to municipalities, watch out.
By law, states cannot declare bankruptcy. But municipalities surely can.
One way to lower taxes for sure.
sorry dodgebaal
chapter 9 allows states to declare bankruptcy
https://www.debtfreeohio.com/bankruptcy-information/bankruptcy/can-states-declare-bankruptcy/
bug3,
Your link says "Bankruptcy law doesn’t allow states to declare bankruptcy". I think you need something better to prove your point.
jnnjr $15ph isn't just that for a small business. We also have to match their taxes plus liability insurance and workers comp goes up as well.. After all that $15ph becomes $21ph.. You want to see small businesses go bankrupt? Raise minimum wage to $15ph! Then we have to raise our $15ph loyal employees to $20ph. Do the math and learn Economics 101!
Jacqui Not according to the article you provided.
"The Federal bankruptcy code even allows municipalities such as towns, school districts, and hospitals to eliminate debt using a special designation of the bankruptcy code called Chapter 9 bankruptcy.
What Happens When a State Can’t Pay its Debts?
Bankruptcy law doesn’t allow states to declare bankruptcy. At least, they haven’t allowed states to do so yet."
Bug3; that’s got to be on of the stupidest pieces I have seem recently. New Hersey? I want to live there!
States get lower financing and loan rates because they can’t claim bankruptcy so the entire financing system would radically change if they could
States can’t claim bankruptcy w/o Congress, nbl on that vote. Same deal with Fed bailing them out. Can’t happen without Congress. However, 49 states and Congress would vote a new law to build a wall around NJ to stop us from immigrating in a heartbeat :-). Then Kurt Russell would be airdropped in. Call me Snake.
They might re-jigger bonds and pensions and such. And the lawsuits would fly. But that is the more likely route.
Or perhaps giving NJ its fair share of tax receipts for awile to back off creditors.
Bug,
That doesn't mean States can declare bankruptcy. It could change down the road, but as it stands right now, they can't.
In term of California, New York and New Jersey...its a matter of when not if....unless our gutless politicians tackle the pension crisis we are in huge trouble...and I don't mean full funding...I mean true reform...its going to hurt no matter what happens
Like so many things (the debt ceiling for one) they just keep kicking that can down the road :-(
Andy Loigu IMO, the debt ceiling does not kick the can down the road; the deficit does. The debt ceiling is a stupid acknowledgement that the debt exits. The votes on the budget kick the can down the road. The tax cut vote, the DOD budget, not fixing medicare, medicaid, and someday, not fixing SS. The debt ceiling vote is just the grand acknowledgement of all those real budgetary votes or inactions; its a ridiculous passion play that is a total waste of time.
Commenting is no longer available.