Tax Payer Money For Illegals?
Phil the one term hack is at it again...
https://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2018/11/murphy_doles_out_millions_to_provide_legal_help_to_undocumented_immigrants.html
Someone should file a suit against this clown. We all know Bobby and Booger are useless and probably love that he did it.
LJRubi He's a piece of garbage. But what do you expect when there are voters like some of the regulars who post on HL. I wish the money would come straight from their accounts.
JYM So happy Democrats are taking the lead here...so proud of our humanity. Many forget they are immigrants too and many ancestors were illegal immigrants as well. Thanks Phil keep up the good work.
Ryan JHow come legal work cannot be outsourced? Have some Indian or Chinese lawyer do the work for 1.00/ hr, no one seems to care about other professions that are outsourced.
It might then be affordable to fight those parking tickets-you know, the ones where the wrong plate number was written down, but it costs you more for a day off of work than to fight the ticket.
You could sue your cable company for over billing, sue for defective appliance, etc.
You could even sue your governor-for your time on the highway, or taking away your 15 round magazine.
Amazing how everyone else's job can be outsourced/visa'd but the legal profession is unscathed. I guess if you write the laws you can write in your own job protection.
Dodgebaal You should opt in to have it taken out of your paycheck Ryan. In fact, why don't you tell us how many illegals you are willing to take into your home. If you are Illegal, you are breaking the law. The dims don't seem to get it. I expect nothing less from you guys though. I sure don't want my tax $$$ funding illegal activities.
maja2 Yeah keep up the great work chompers...
https://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2018/11/phil_murphy_was_eating_dinner_at_fancy_restaurant.html
You are a complete failure and disgusting human being.
First was illegal Aliens. That was not pc.
Then illegal immigrants. Not pc enough
Immigrants. Still not good enough
How about US citizen???
Philliesman Yes, this country is a country of immigrants, but that is not the situation. Immigrants came to this country legally, applied and went through the process to live here legally. The immigrants who are about to invade the U.S. - how do you think they are going to survive here? with taxpayers' money? There are thousands and the judge just banned Trump from imposing an asylum ban? Have you seen the thousands of immigrants that are about to invade our country? This is going to affect the U.S. economy and everyone. You don't see the big picture, Ryan.
Shirley The cause may be just, but taking from the NJ taxpayers is just plain wrong. Murphy should take from his own pocket...
iJay 
Caged Animal so help me understand ... what do you want to spend your paid tax dollars on? i'm not looking for how much you think things should cost. and i'm not looking for very specific items. but, preferably in order, what should the government spend your money on? for example, is #1 infrastructure? where do you draw a line between "needs" and "wants"? and between "wants" and the next level (nice to have?)?
RoadKingRider It would be nice if money would go to the people who pay taxes and top three for me would be: infrastructure, property taxes and education.
Suze He should set up a Go Fund Me page like everyone else does....instead of using our tax dollars!!
I am proud to be a resident in NJ where some people care enough to think of others. Unless you are a Native American - you are an immigrant and at one point your family needed help in many ways. Give to those in need. Mr. Murphy may have acquired economic success in his own life - kudos to him- I am happy to be a part of social assistance. Apparently and thankfully many NJ residents are or Dems would not have had such a sweeping sweet success. Go Phil - continue to do the right thing and move forward.
native:
associated with the country, region, or circumstances of a person's birth.
American:
a native or citizen of the United States.
I am a native American.
JeffersonRepub Ryan J yea ok... Where's this caring and thinking of actual citizens? This clown keeps putting money aside for illegals meanwhile he couldn't get roads plowed efficiently last week. You're part of the voter base that is the problem here in NJ. You live in an alternate reality.
Metsman My ancestors came here legally. Some didn't make it. Laws and rules were followed. Illegal is illegal. I don't want to support those who have no respect for the laws of our country and think they are above the rest of us and have the gall to expect our hard earned money to support them.
Come on folks, I am not a "piece of garbage," a "dim," or any other of your pet pejoratives. I am the great grandson of " Immigrants came to this country legally, applied and went through the process to live here legally." My wife is a immigrant direct descendent. Others from our family came on the Mayflower. Legal, yes. Application and process --- no. We just came.
And, as is the American way, everyone here hated us, shunned us, gave us ghettos to live in and 15 years after citizenship, we still were not allowed to vote. So tell me about liberty and the land of the free and how illegals are so, so much different that the rest of us.
"It would be nice if money would go to the people who pay taxes and top three for me would be: infrastructure, property taxes and education." Really, that's your top three? How about the DEBT...…
Carry on but quit castigating us with your name calling and treating all liberals as some monolithic tax and spend thought machine. Bogus.
JR claims to be a native American, versus Native American. Gonna get confusing if you keep going with that one. JR, illegals are natives of America too :>)
OK, on this one, I honestly don't get why we are investing in this. Gotcha name calling crawlers.
One of the reasons for sanctuary is that immigration, legal or not, is in the Federal purview, not the local police. For local police to engage on behalf of the Fed, they risk the trust of the entire immigrant community, both legal and illegal. This is not good for the neighborhood, and it is not good for policing to completely be at odds with the entire neighborhood because you are doing the Fed's work. This is a soft advantage that I have never seen $$$ advantages for. It just tends to make police work better and safer when you have the community's support. Would love to see the $$$ benefit of that.
That said, specifically the quid pro quo for this investment is that the tax payer will save due to shorter useless detention times for those who just are caught up in the system. It is a fact that if you are not represented, you will grind through the system whereas with representation, your time and outcome will be better. Better for the immigrant and cheaper for the taxpayer. That said --- I can find no supporting numbers so why put up $2.1M given our debt IF we don't have financial support.
Without the forecasted costs and savings for the above, any investment is a finger-wag as to the value.
strangerdanger Like I said before Ryan....you want to help people breaking the law, then YOU PAY FOR IT. It is not the right thing to do. The right thing to do is to come to this great country LEGALLY like my ancestors did. Sorry you Dems can't comprehend the basics in life. This is just chompers expanding his voter base and he should be brought up on federal charges for it.
First, GOD Bless America.
I came to US as immigrant and applied for permanent residency using my own hard-earned money--it costs over $4k (or more) per member of a family to become permanent resident.
USA is known as the most generous nation in the world. I never knew the real meaning of the following words in Deuteronomy 15:10 "Give liberally and be ungrudging when you do so, for on this account the Lord your God will bless you in all your work and in all that you undertake”.
We should continue to enforce legal immigration--even if means helping those who have a glimmer of a chance to become legal residents.
The money earmarked by Gov. Murphy is going to well respected American institutions run mostly by US citizens--Legal Services of New Jersey, American Friend Service Committee, Law Schools at Rutgers and Seton Hall universities.
I'm confident that the folks running these organizations are honest US citizens who will doing everything in their power to help someone facing deportation threat to explore legal means to remain in this country.
My prayer is that US continues to be known around the world for its kindness and generosity and in turn God will bless America more than ever before.
God has never gone back on his promise and never will.
We need to do our part to ensure God’s blessing are not wasted.
lildrummerboy And the Republicans take our tax money and give it to the billionaires and their companies as tax breaks, so when it comes down to it, which is worse....it's all a scam and the middle class is the one that gets the shaft.
thomasnj SD, If as you say legal/ illegal immigration is in the federal purview, then Murphy shouldn't be expending state funds to support illegal aliens.
BC “Republicans take our tax money and give it to the billionaires and their companies as tax breaks”
How many millions or billions did Amazon just get in tax breaks (from Democrats) to build their new HQ ?
Mark Mc. My grandparents immigrated to America, legally. But there is a huge difference between then and now. Back then, you had to work hard, to survive and raise a family. Things are much different, these days, due to the costs of infrastructure and services provided to all citizens.
NJ spends an average of more than $20,000 PER YEAR, PER STUDENT, on public education. And an average of more than $7,000 PER PERSON, on health care. That means that an average NJ family of four, with two school-age children, but with no (or very limited) income, can easily cost the state's taxpayers more than $60,000 PER YEAR, just for education and medical services. And that doesn't include the costs of things like road maintenance, public buildings, etc.
And there is an already an estimated 11 MILLION illegal immigrants in the US, with the average HOUSEHOLD income for them being less than $36,000/year.
Economically, that situation is simply unsustainable. So, Americans can make changes to the immigration laws, or face future economic collapse, but one or the other must happen.
JerseyWolf "And the Republicans take our tax money and give it to the billionaires and their companies as tax breaks" - thomasnj
The top 10% of wage earners pay more then 50% of all the taxes, The top 1% pay 24% of the taxes. People in this country should be thankful that so few carry so much of the weight and burden of our reckless spending. When tax cuts are available who should get them? In a logical world the people that pay them.
Mark And I believe the 20k figure doesn't include retiree medical and pensions. Games, games, games...
Actually, iJay, the $20K figure does, apparently, include payments to pension funds, as this article indicates:
https://www.nj.com/education/2017/05/the_50_school_districts_that_spend_the_most_per_pu.html
There is a reason that other countries do not take these people in....have we become that ignorant ????
steven I stand partially corrected:
"Also included in the total cost are pension payments the state makes on behalf of school districts"
We are 80+ billion in the whole with Pensions so that cloud is looming over the taxpayers, realistically cannot be paid as it is over 2.5 times the state budget per year; still games.
And it doesn't include the roughly 1.5 Billion per year for retiree medical.
In the end, still games; abuse of the NJ taxpayer...
https://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2018/11/school_funding_plans_causing_friction_between_fulo.html
No end to the funding of excessive spending...
This is all money that could be better used elsewhere, such as hiring security guards for our schools! What a liberal lunatic!!
Enjoy I don't even know why this is even an issue. Illegal Immigrants, means, not legal. End of discussion. Why are we debating on how to go around our own laws? Anyone wanting to be a citizen can be through the proper channels. That means just because you get a few thousand people in a mob and show up at our border and expect instant citizenship, it should be given. As far as the Pension debt. It was caused by Gov. Whitman who took money from the pension to give to taxpayers. It should have been paid back years ago, but politicians continued to bleed it from not paying back the bill, now its time to pay up. Like Judge Judy says "You ate the steak, now you gotta pay".
Boobalaa One thing that many Americans don't understand is the nation's vague and archaic system of "asylum" laws. Yes, "illegal" means "illegal," but if an "illegal" requests "asylum," it opens up a whole new can of worms. Basically, anyone can request asylum, in the US, and it bypasses the standard, legal immigration procedure. And many of the people coming to America know that, so they simply show up and request asylum. Thus, the whole concept of "legal" and "illegal" immigrants becomes quite clouded.
Thanks Ryan for your refreshing and human view on this. I'm so glad there's a few reasonable people here.
Anyone complaining about money being spent can't say a word until they write their reps and ask them to change tax laws and make apple, facebook, GE, google, etc pay their fair share! The tax dollars dodged would pay for everything we ever want and more and lower our individual taxes.
alpha1beta Well nobody gets citizenship right away . As an immigrants I can tell you that. The paperwork that people will get it’s a permit to stay in the country . They have to renew every year. And that’s what he is looking at . Well if we help let’s say 500 immigrants get out jail and amsure it will not just be anyone . They get permits and then they get about 400-600 from each one to renew their paperwork every year . That’s how much money goes back into the state . That’s the way he is looking at it . And they could have them with their permits for as long as they want. At the end of the day trust me they don’t have to take our taxes for this . Immigrants won’t mind paying as long as they get permits.
Patricia "JR claims to be a native American, versus Native American. Gonna get confusing if you keep going with that one. JR, illegals are natives of America too "
No they are not.
They are natives of whatever COUNTRY they were born in. If you stretch it to CONTINENT, you would still be only partially correct, but then you'd be playing the game of political speak and not facts. But then that's what this ENTIRE discussion is anyway.
The FACTS remain: no one born here is an immigrant, period. Not even the anchor babies (altho Trump is trying to change that I think.) My father's side goes back at least 5 generations, born in the United States. So when, in your illogical progressive world view does one STOP being an immigrant? Let me answer for you: never. Nonsensical.
Perhaps a stretch, but it's the "of" that gets you.
Webster: "1: one born or reared in a particular place
2a: an original or indigenous inhabitant
b: something indigenous to a particular locality
3: a local resident
especially : a person who has always lived in a place as distinguished from a visitor or a temporary resident
It's 3, a local resident.
heh, heh.
My family goes back to at least the 1760's when the French and Indian War was going on. So nice try trying to compare people who have been here over 250 years with people that decide to jump a border...
Mets, did they file an application, file out the paperwork, get a permit, wait in line, get approval, of course not.
All I am saying is that the argument that they did not follow the law but your ancestors did is pretty much apples and oranges. Not that being here illegally is therefore OK, it is not.
But saying that times are different in terms of the process of immigration.
However, one thing remains the same: the ones here usually hate the one's coming and create all sorts of stories, stereotypes, and fear mongering so they can feel better about their lives.
And a one and a two: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgASBVMyVFI
"Oh, the poor folks hate the rich folks,
And the rich folks hate the poor folks.
All of my folks hate all of your folks,
It's American as apple pie.
But during national brotherhood week, national brotherhood week,
New Yorkers love the Puerto Ricans 'cause it's very chic.
Step up and shake the hand
Of someone you can't stand.
You can tolerate him if you try."
Ah, more name calling, the first resort of the dubious debater. Really need to up the creativity though.
"especially : a person who has always lived in a place as distinguished from a visitor or a temporary resident "
Words are funny- they mean things. It's the "always" that gets you, LOL
"Always" actually means from birth, in this instance. Because, always means, ALWAYS. Not "except for" (1 day/1 year/20 years), it means FOREVER. Since beginning. ALWAYS.
Except “especially” means there is another known option: “a local resident.”
Words do matter. And meanings are relative to the time. So in light of the current meaning of Native American, you fall back to native American and I go niche definition of native of America. All good, all correct, but only one being currently in style.
Another Trump believer. Got to be the strangerdangerest thing I have ever seen.
Oh please, SD, lol, talk about dubious debating! Look in the mirror sometime. You rely on confirmation bias, you twist what people say and continually throw out a lot worse insults than “fool”.
Let me know when you can discuss any topic like an adult without smug remarks, emojis, song lyrics and copy and pasted articles pulled from dubious google searches.
Why should they get free lawyers?!
We taxpayers have to pay for our own if we need one
It's not OK.
Working Citizens (who pay taxes)should reap the benefits of grants and allocated funds.
We are already paying for section 8 housing, food stamps, medical care, and education for people who are breaking the law.
We can barely afford to live here. Why do illegals get a free ride? And why do WE have to pay for it?!
Older Mom So lets try this. I can stop paying taxes and when the state comes after me for tax evasion Murphy will give me free lawyer to keep the state from making me pay. This is the law I don't want to follow. No different. You can't pick and choose what law you will follow or enforce period.
Older mom great questions.. May I attempt to answer some of them in a sentence or two... Becauce our state is filled with a bunch of liberal crybabies who are more concerned with illegal aliens/less fortunate in order to garner more votes to keep themselves in power...Peopleblike Phil Murphy are so out of touch with reality that they have no idea what the average middle class New Jersian is up against or do they care!!!!! I’m about 12 years away from retirement and I’ve already got an exit plan... Hopefully I can hold on that long....
Mr. Tone If you are on the left, then yes, you can pick which laws you want to follow. And if someone tells you otherwise, you just kick and scream and cry like a 3 year old. Then hold an anti Trump rally and shout about fascism.
^
LMFAO LJRubi, the things we are teaching our replacement generation are just plain embarrassing!
Darrin Now strange one will hide behind his mama's skirt until another demented lib posts their idiocy and he will completely ignore all the wise words from the posters after his ridiculous "strangerdangerest thing I've ever seen".
That's his m.o., just like the liberals who have no brains or spine. And by the way, strange Mr googler, the citizens of Mexico don't want illegals from these caravans either. Guess it's not racism since they're all Latinos. You and your little pals will have to sit on that card now.
Get use to this folks, the kook fringe left is running the show now. I cannot wait for what else they come up with down the road.
hammer Mr. Tone, spot on.
It always fry's me that we have created a welfare system that now has generations born to it and think that's their job. Need more money? Have another kid. Of course no on raises them except maybe the Police and the State, which we have to pay for as well. There are ways to stop that nonsense, like family members on welfare that commit an indictable crime, no more welfare for that person. Teens from welfare family's continually committing crimes, no more welfare for that teen. Family on welfare and then having a child after, won't be paid for from welfare. Of course, as Mr. Tone said, Politicians would be afraid of losing those Sharpton votes. Our Politicians have learned to have a very nice Job with great benefits, all paid for by us.
The majority of "original" immigrants that came to the USA? Those that arrived by ship in the 1700's, 1800's and the first half of the 20th century were dropped off at Ellis Island after the ship docked in NYC dropping off it's regular passengers first. The ship was then actually piloted across the Hudson.
These immigrants didn't receive a dime of taxpayers money as support. They got by with the money in their own pockets and their survival wits. The only money spent by taxpayers was to build the facility and support the employees of Ellis Island itself.
We may have paid for the original medical assistance needed by those that were sick when they arrived.
fire251 
OMGoodness, just when you think it’s been pushed back, here it comes again. The ole specific groups of folk are gaming the welfare system for profit stereotype generalization without supporting evidence spew……
“Need more money? Have another kid.” You really don’t have a clue as to the numbers behind that, do you? You really think these women say: “Hey, I need a new flat screen, think I will carry a watermelon in my belly for nine months, then get free delivery, so I can watch 72-inch Oprah. No facts, just bogus stereotypes.
“commit an indictable crime, no more welfare” This does occur in many states, not NJ, but pretty much going away because: it does not help. But you can move to those states if that helps. And indictable? Why not convicted? Don’t those who did the time get to be citizens anymore?
“Politicians would be afraid of losing those Sharpton votes.” Exsqueeeze me: did you say Sharpton votes? Can you explain specifically what you mean by “Sharpton votes.” Because last time I checked, he only gets one. Toto, I don’t think this is illegal aliens anymore….
“It always fry's me that we have created a welfare system that now has generations born to it” Uh, there’s a time limit so generational attachment would be impossible. Each generation can only use for a prescribed time period, except the kids. We’re not about starving the kids yet, are we?
“Why should they get free lawyers?!” They get the same free lawyers that other disadvantaged people get. It’s called Legal Aid. It is funded by private and public donations. Murphy is providing $2.1M for the specific purpose but others donate as well. You can donate too. You can get it too. Just be poorer. As to why does the government fund Legal Aid, that's a fair question to which I have said --- they need to provide some $$$ substantiation to their plan. They have not, just sort of alluded to it saving money.
“We are already paying for section 8 housing, food stamps, medical care, and education for people who are breaking the law.” Not true. The kids are covered, but we don’t cover, except for emergency care, illegals. Sorry. Never have.
“Why do illegals get a free ride? And why do WE have to pay for it?!” Basically kids, education, and emergency care are the free ride. TANF, SNAP, etc. are not. And you get free emergency care too if you need it. It’s lovely I bet. Education is the huge one in that it’s large and put upon the State even though the Fed really owns the immigration problem. IMO, education is the tough one and once E-verify is the law of the land, that problem should not exist.
Nice article explaining much of this: https://www.thoughtco.com/who-really-receives-welfare-4126592 (for JR, least biased reporting, just like me :>) and a very high factual reporting.)
“pasted articles pulled from dubious google searches.” Find one. Please. Show us. Rat me out. Come on, do it, get JYM to help, he’s itchin for it. Until then Suze: and a one and a two:
“She'll come, she'll go
She'll lay belief on you
But she won't stake her life on you
How can life become her point of view” Bowie.
I think you proved my point, SD. I’m just going to refer everyone to Rebecka’s brilliant response to you on the North Korea thread.
"It would be nice if money would go to the people who pay taxes and top three for me would be: infrastructure, property taxes and education."
You did get your wish Suze, you must have voted for Murphy.
Police in your schools are a new part of the infrastructure. More security, more cameras.
Murphy is devoting more financial support towards your property taxes by paying back the debt you owe to public workers, currently at 80 Billion dollars.
Education-Murphy supports education wholeheartedly, helping out your schools financially.
You have hit the trifecta, Suze. Congrats
Suze, you are right, it's not the trifecta, it's the Quadfecta. Democraps to give you more of your money back. You said you would like to get some of the money would go to the people who pay taxes, well, here comes back your property tax break. Just in time for Christmas and Hanukkah. You have your wish, amplified even more. Good for you Suze- article from NJ.Com.
Your property tax break might come back if these newly elected Democrats have their way,
https://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2018/11/newly_powerful_democrats_try_to_restore_your_prope.html
Suze, don't bite the hand that feeds ya'
Hey dodgebaal...the newly elected rats in DC shouldn't have to fight for the property tax break. The real problem are the worthless rats in Trenton that keep raising property taxes to pay for dumb s#$t like lawyers for illegals. 10k in property tax? Yeah, no. Nobody's property tax should even be that high in the first place.
LJ,
"10k in property tax? Yeah, no. Nobody's property tax should even be that high in the first place."
You are right, it should be even higher, way higher- until the 80 billion dollar debt is paid off. That money needs to come from somewhere, and passing that debt on to the children is immoral. OTOH, you could tell all of the retirees to go pound salt, if there is any left after Murphy spreads the entire allotment before Christmas...
TJS Send the woman directly to Plan Parenthood they know what to do.They have the backing of the Democrats and 56 million plus examples for proof. The rest if they get in send to Ryan J. house, any over flow ship to Murphy's compound. Have a nice day............
Frank 1945 Here's a concept....provide a listing "EVERY DAY" of exactly where all the monies go that are generated from the lottery games....I can only imagine ( vividly ) how many layers of employees are living off of that gravy train of unaccountability.
Regardless of who is office, there is no accountability
Generate another game for the sole use of covering the teachers pensions....and show complete transparency of where the monies go.....and let the teachers decide where to invest ( just like everybody else, so when the investment craps out, it will be on them.....nothing in life is guaranteed but leaving this earth ) < cold hard truth ….we all lost when market crashed, get over it and move on .
Steven: there's a yearly review of where all the dollars go, 60% go to the winners; 8% SGA, and 32% to programs. That's seems like a reasonable overhead.
Here's the rub; it's not the programs, they actually don't matter. It's that the monies are just seen as just another tax revenue put in the General Fund so that they can spend it. It's not like it's extra dollars, they just allocate less of ouro the funds they pinpoint it for. It does not reduce our taxes.
I agree: earmark it for the debt and cover your other costs with taxes, not with lottery. Pay down the debt.
Another beneficiary are the 7,200 vendors; they get 5% off all sales and that's good for Main Street.
Overview: https://www.njlottery.com/en-us/aboutus/givingback/overview.html
Actual Spending: https://www.njlottery.com/en-us/aboutus/givingback/recipients.html
WARNING: “pasted articles pulled from dubious google searches.” Suze.
Steven,
It was Christie that gave the money from the lottery to the pensions. The layers you dream about, they are both R&D, both sides love the money. It's no different.
Also, why separate out the teachers, should be all state workers that collect pensions. Not right to single out certain groups, nor certain individuals. Touch the third rail already-no tapering down, no grandfathering. Retired and working both. Don't let grandpa and grandma walk, yet keep the youngster's nose to the grindstone. It was under grandma's watch that the debt kept climbing-its not morally right to reward her for running up the bill and leaving it for her grandchildren.
As part of my job I look at taxes for families that I work with. Many of you ignorant people don't realize that most of the immigrants I work with pay taxes. They want to become citizens so they pay taxes on the 15,000/20,000 dollars they make a year. Many of them work 12 hours a day, long hard back breaking shifts. There are many wealthy people out there using loopholes and underreporting taxes and at the end of the day that money far exceeds the peanuts you are talking about from immigrants.
middle of the road Not only that, but they pay sales tax, gas tax, etc. etc. just like the rest of us.
Many also pay into Social Security ----- they just will NEVER get any of that back. You do. Yeah, you will live your retirement life off some illegal aliens Social Security deposits.
Ironic ain't it.
First of all they are not immigrants. There's that liberal misuse of the term again. The correct term is illegal aliens. Even the federal government considers them illegal aliens. Next, unless they have a green card they can't pay taxes absent s SSN. And where did they get one? Illegally obtained? Sales tax amounts to a paltry investment SD. No value there either. Bottom line is illegal aliens cost tax paying citizens more than they contribute to society. Many work under the table, sending money back to family members in their home country. More money out the US door. And that money is used to allow other family members to travel to the US. And on it goes, never ending stream of illegal aliens pouring through our southern border. Don't believe it? Just look at the mass of them currently in Mexico waiting to cross into the US.
S'Danger…
Have the government put back the monies they have been taking from SSi (since the days of LBJ ) and everyone will have more than enough to go around.
Wouldn't that be ironic...Honest government .
They have legal SSN numbers that they have applied for. Do you work in the field or are you getting your info from Twitter. We all know Twitter has the most accurate information.
https://www.ssa.gov/ssnumber/ss5doc.htm
You have to be able to work in the US to get an SSN. They use either fake socials or commit identity theft.
Skippy Exactly, Skippy. Middle of the Rd is playing a bit fast and loose with information and rules. Most illegal immigrants do NOT have SSN's. The one's who are not citizens but do have them are documented as they are green card holders, legal residents, etc.
Those aren't the people abusing the system overload.
Do employers have to verify ssn’s? I think at many establishments, no. That may be part of the issue. I would think, beyond fake id, that there are a number of manners ad well.
The amount in unclaimed ssn is a good size; its noticeable.
"You have to be able to work in the US to get an SSN. They use either fake socials or commit identity theft."
Just like drug dealers, you need addicts as well. NJ employers saving money hiring off the books are just as guilty.
When I mentioned what would stop this, seizing property and assets, many whined that this would be tyranny. Well, suck it up and deal with your illegals if you allow Americans to hire them. You have the solution, you don't want it, mainly because Americans enjoy the benefits of the cheap labor.
As you know I support your belief that e-verity needs to be mandatory and severe penalties need to exist for employers that hire employees falsifying an I9
You wouldn't have to look to far to find a lot of those illegals hired by local employers, especially out on the mucks in great meadows. And they knowingly hire them because they don't have to do much to prove they "tried" to verify their status.
"And they knowingly hire them because they"
......are cheaper and they can profit more. They could use the rule of supply and demand, raise wages until they can get an American to work there but......
Like I said, JYM, I actually am out there meeting with the people and have been in three counties in NJ. Your the one being loose. I can speak for what I actually see.
The same people who complain about illegal immigrants are the same people who hire them to save a buck.
EweIdjits "The same people who complain about illegal immigrants are the same people who hire them to save a buck."
Really? We'll need something to back that opinion up. *I* do not.
I think people are always looking for "cheap"- so while they may not PERSONALLY hire an illegal immigrant, they turn a blind eye when they go with the lowest bid contractor to get work done at their house... knowing the must be using illegal labor to come in with such a low price. People need to apply their principles to their wallets.
So if you car about the illegal alien problem, the next time you are hiring a contractor to get work done, ask the question. And more importantly, be prepared to PAY for work NOT being done by illegals.
I know too many contractors who's answer to the question is "they have papers". Meaning, "I don't actually know if they are legal or not, but they have "papers" saying they are, so that's all I care about. Well, that and the fact that they'll take $100/day."
So the contractors play the game, the customers play the game, it's apparent we need a better system (such as e-verify) to police this stuff. With deportation for the illegals and fines for the contractors.
(Not disparaging their work ethic: they do fine work, in some cases. I say "some" because it's just like anybody, including Americans: "sometimes" they do fine work and "sometimes" they don't. Their origin has nothing to do with it.)
J.R.
It's not your responsibility as a consumer of anything, be it work on your house, eating out, walking into a store-where you should be concerned or have to ask if they (the employers) are hiring illegals.
Go try that in a restaurant. You will find yourself on a viral YouTube video as a racist.
It is up to the employer/corporation to perform due diligence.
It is up to the law to make sure it is happening.
We know it is happening, so maybe the fines are too low to discourage the practice.
It's like dope dealing, so much to be made, so little the time. Employers know this and so it's part of doing business.
Employers also know they can just claim bankuptcy, keep all of their personal crap (hide under LLC) and re open under another name. Who's fault is that? Your muppets that make the laws, that's who. You are paying tax dollars to do that job, go hold their feet to the fire. But alas, they as well are doing the same thing, and making money from it. So it is not going to stop. Not my job to do their job. They don't care, I don't care.
Now go put my roof on at 1/2 price.
Dodgeball, we aren't disagreeing, except I DO think it is the consumer's responsibility... IF it's an issue they care about... in other words, if they are complaining about illegals/labor, then yes it's their responsibility to ask. By NOT asking they are contributing to the problem that they are complaining about.
And yes- we wouldn't HAVE the restaurant industry we do without them. It's funny, people always talk about illegal labor with regards to farming and landscaping, but they are indispensable in the restaurant industry. IDK about here in Hackettstown, or out in the midwest, but from what I've read, all the big cities' big restaurants are loaded with them, for better or worse.
And again- just to be clear- ORIGIN (race, if you prefer?) has NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. It's the ILLEGALITY I have a problem with. Come here LEGALLY, apply for a SSN, and then work.
There are many ways for illegals, or others, to get SSNs. Since in many places, employers are not required to verify SSNs, it's a perfect storm. As to how they get them, as I said, a number of ways: https://bipartisanpolicy.org/blog/how-do-undocumented-immigrants-pay-federal-taxes-an-explainer/
As to the topic of illegals paying taxes, but specifically SS taxes and never having a chance to recoup which could be as high as $1.3T, about 2M working with fake ids, and about $18B being donated to your SS every year, but who really knows, apparently ----> https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/09/undocumented-immigrants-and-taxes/499604/
The joke in all this is that at the root of the problem, fake ids, is probably an enterprising native American (like JR :>)
Again --- E-verify and problem is reduced if not eradicated very quickly.
There's actually a lot more conflicting data about the efficacy of e-verify but, so far, I have not seen any issues that can not be overcome. One was a 6% denial for legal residents based on the system requiring a week or so to clean up. Seems fixable to me. Others are that States chose to not enforce their own system, another fixable problem --- especially is immigration is a Federal issue and e-verify becomes a Federal law. I will let others google the negative reviews.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-Verify
I think the answer to: do illegals pay taxes, is a resounding yes, including a boatload to SS that they will never get back.
If someone coming here illegally is ok, someone who MIGHT commit a crime (even rape/murder), why is it NOT ok for me to purchase a gun illegally? Since we are talking MIGHTs here....
If an illegal is innocent until they commit an actual crime, then why aren't gun owners?
If an illegal MIGHT kill someone, and a gun owner MIGHT kill someone, shouldn't they both be held to proper safety precautions/screening? Gun owners already are. Why aren't illegals?
SD you are not addressing the costs of illegal immigration at the state, county, and municipal level - e.g. general governance, emergency services, garbage collection, road maintenance, criminal justice and administration of the courts, and most importantly in NJ the cost of education. Tax payments made by illegal aliens fail to cover the costs of the services they consume.
you are also only discussing the limited subset of illegal aliens that use counterfeit docs. I would be willing to bet that the vast majority of illegal aliens work for cash daily and avoid paying any income tax at all. In addition many illegals do FILE with an ITIN with a ton of dependents and get money back.. source - WaPo...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/federal-eye/post/undocumented-workers-got-billions-from-irs-in-tax-credits-audit-finds/2011/03/23/gIQAhtaKvJ_blog.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.c985b9c61710
and the US treasury
https://www.treasury.gov/tigta/auditreports/2011reports/201141061fr.pdf
tell me more about how illegal aliens are a boon to the economy and propping up social security..
how many tangents got thrown in here? your property tax does not pay for this or any state program. it is the municipality. in independence, that means the property tax funds the school budget (not the state's pension deficit) and the police, and a little left over for everything else.
So that means your property taxes help pay for illegal immigrant children in our school system. What's that $20K per year? $260K for 13 years of public school for one kid.
NJ spent $18,402 per pupil in 2016
http://www.governing.com/gov-data/education-data/state-education-spending-per-pupil-data.html
500,000 undocumented immigrants comprised 24 percent of the immigrant population and 5.4 percent of the total state population in 2014.
604,615 people in New Jersey, including 204,946 born in the United States, lived with at least one undocumented family member between 2010 and 2014.
During the same period, 1 in 11 children in the state was a U.S. citizen living with at least one undocumented family member (180,580 children in total). (birthright citizenship etc.)
More than 17,000 Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) recipients live in New Jersey.
http://www.pewhispanic.org/interactives/unauthorized-immigrants/
illegal aliens in New Jersey paid an estimated $587.4 million in state and local taxes in 2014.
https://itep.org/undocumented-immigrants-state-local-tax-contributions-2/
sending their kids to schools costs tax payers 5 times that...
Middle of the road, I don't care if you're in every county. Illegals have illegally obtained SSN's. What they tell you and what is law are two different things.
Unauthorized? Undocumented?
Gee, why can’t anyone just use the synonym the all the naysayers use - illegal? Too painful, like cognitive dissonance painful???
justintime I am looking at their taxes and I'm talking with people that are worried that are waiting for the numbers when they are being renewed. Stop and listen to yourself. Someone is telling you from real experience what is happening around you, not news, not fake information. This is real life everyday. Why are you so reluctant to hear what I'm saying? I work for the government and have been doing my job for going on six years. I have met with almost a thousand families and about 15 percent have been hispanic families. Are you still going to tell me that I'm disillusioned or that I'm wrong?
Oh and the legal definition of immigrant is someone that has moved to live in another country permanently. If the person's intentions are to live here permanently, wether or not our country allows it, then they are immigrants.
"then they are immigrants." - - - what you mean but avoid saying is that , 'then they are illegal immigrants.' - - - there you go fixed it for ya'
Is saying it out loud and acknowledging the truth too painful? Like cognitive dissonance painful??? (thanks JIT, you are spot on correct as usual) But i get it, you work for the state, for the Murphy administration, and they will punish you severely if you dare step outside the box of political correctness. And yet you call those who disagree with you 'ignorant' ? Really? You might want to rethink throwing out negative labels on those who live in the same town you do. There could be some blow back coming your way.
GreyHawk “I am looking at their taxes and I'm talking with people that are worried that are waiting for the numbers when they are being renewed”
Why are your clients worried?
You see JR,
Just a couple of word changes to your statement and you see how it works. The only difference is legal vs illegal. Lobbyists have guaranteed that when corporations do it, it is legal. And yes, I do get your point, and this is where we digress, I don't believe it is the consumer's responsibility. We pay people,and vote for people to do this job,not for them to take lobbyist money and be controlled by corporations. Also, JR, not everyone has the "wallet" full of cash to apply principles, that is reserved for those who can afford it. To demand this of others is elitist. Those with the money have the power, the rest of us are just surviving. When I hit the lottery I will start to apply "principles" when I purchase things, in the meantime I will buy what I can afford and what gives me a good value. America is a dog eat dog world, Marlboro man style. Scrappy vs snobby-you are going to see more anger, fighting and hating - rising income disparity is going to make for an interesting future, along with white people becoming minorities, more old people than young (costing society trillions) and an increasingly corporate run authoritarian government. That's what America wants, that's what it's going to get.
I think CORPORATIONS are always looking for "cheap"- so while they may not PERSONALLY hire an illegal immigrant, they turn a blind eye when they SUBCONTRACT, OUTSOURCE, OR USE H1B VISA'S with the lowest bid LABOR SOURCE to get work done at their COMPANY OR CORPORATION, knowing they must be using CHEAP, LOBBYIST labor to come in with such a low price. CORPORATIONS need to apply their principles (they have none) to their wallets.
"You might want to rethink throwing out negative labels on those who live in the same town you do. There could be some blow back coming your way." Methinks this is the voice of experience squawking :>)
Even at full employment where it seems pretty physically impossible that illegals are taking YOUR job, we seem to be buggered by people who came here without asking. We have a quota, a process, and they hurt us by cheating. Our own political cheaters continue to cheat us out of cheating these new cheaters by allowing them to come in, allowing them to stay, allowing them to murder us, rape us, and steal all of our tax dollars that we used to roll around in before they came.
If we could just get rid of the illegals, our lives would be so much better, our taxes would be lower, and we all could learn to bag our own, mow our own, and paint our own. It would be heaven.
I think I have the answer. NJ has a larger number of illegals than most states. We are also basically a peninsula of land completely surrounded by water on three sides and the majority of our border. Let's close down those borders and install immigration ports of entry for all those coming across the border. And then all we need to add is a short wall on the Northern border. With this, we can MUGA, Make Us Great Again..
A short 60 mile wall that we will name: The Jersey Wall. It can be made out of white cement so that it matches our existing Jersey Walls on the interstate medians.
Then we can MUGA by ending illegals crossing into NJ once and for all time while providing many new border agent immigration port search agent jobs as well. Not to mention the new NJ navy needed to patrol the waters. We will turn back all Latino's, anyone with an accent actually, and anyone found with Dorito's in their vehicle. Side benefits include finally ending the drug flow along the 95/pw/78/287/80 routes. Plus, since most of NJ's illegal guns are imported from Skippy's or Darrin's native state or some where's with loose gun laws down South, we can close down the iron pipeline as well stopping 80% of crime guns from entering the state due to Skippy's and Darrin's exports.
Since we will need to search all semi's and other carriers coming into the state to be sure they ain't hauling illegals, we can take advantage of those searches to recoup all proper sales taxes for imports providing a new way to pay down our debt. Could be a great time to initiate new tariffs to also MUGA by protecting NJ products. For example, we could put a $500 per can tariff on any soup entering the state to protect Campbells. All non-AT&T cell phones could carry a $40 tariff for using a non-NJ carrier. All non-Henry Rifles carry of $400 tariff. We can tariff chocolate syrup (Bosco), Clam/Crabmeat (Bumble Bee), and, believe it or not, closets (California Closets) as well
As an added bonus, on the Jersey side, we can install Climbing Holds and open up a new Vernon Rocks climbing wall theme park so that we can take a profit from our endeavors. We will have the first climbing wall allowing you to go 50 feet up and 60 miles horizontally. MUGA.
"All alone, or in twos
The ones who really love you
Walk up and down outside the wall
Some hand in hand
And some gathered together in bands
The bleeding hearts and the artists
Make their stand
And when they've given you their all
Some stagger and fall, after all it's not easy
Banging your heart against some mad bugger's wall."
ILLEGAL, ILLEGAL, ILLEGAL!
Against the law! They are lawbreakers. I don't give a rats where they are from, or their ethnicity. They should not receive our tax dollars, nor should they be employed here unless and until they go through legal channels to do so. PLAIN. AND. SIMPLE.
“ILLEGAL, ILLEGAL, ILLEGAL!”
In case you hadn’t figured it out yet, a lot of folks see gray everywhere, most notably with regards to the law. Spin, obfuscation, misdirection - all too common, and unfortunately not under anyone’s direct control. Which...is why we have laws in the first place and why ignoring the law or inventing ways around the law is just wrong in every sense.
But mention that energies should be directed toward changing laws instead of manipulating them? That Congress (the originators of our laws) should be at the end of our collective ire? Nah, don’t do that ‘cause you’ll be labeled a nut job. By the true crazies, of course ;-)
Unfortunately, it's really not that "plain and simple." If a citizen from another country sneaks across the American border, then he is in the country illegally. BUT, if he sneaks across the border, walks up to a law enforcement officer, and requests political asylum, then--by law--he may be LEGALLY permitted to remain in the country, pending a hearing (which may take years). And he might end up being granted indefinite asylum or citizenship.
Then there is the issue of children born in the US of foreign citizens (who are in the US legally or illegally). For decades, those children have been automatically granted US citizenship (even if there parents are not), even though the law does not clearly state whether they should or should not automatically be granted citizenship.
Then you have the DACA laws, which can allow some foreign-born children brought to the US to remain in the US, legally, at least temporarily.
And so, unfortunately, whether someone is a "legal" or "illegal" immigrant--whether they are actually violating US laws--really is not a black-or-white issue.
Actually JW, IMO ones legal status is often pretty clear given their circumstances, as is the resolution. It’s the resolution that many find unacceptable, thus they try to desperately minimize and/or ignore the reasons that led to the resolution even though the proper way to deal with correcting a broken resolution is through amnendment if the law.
But as you’ve pointed out it’s impossible to use a broad brush and assume any persons legal status, like some tend to do here in their generalizations, which is why clarifying that a discussion is limited to *illegal* immigrants and not legal immigrants is very important. Looking back, far too often the two are conflated, legal vs illegal, and that distorts any point made by either side of the discussion.
I have long believed that one of the biggest hurdles to fixing America's immigration problem is simply educating the public--including clarifying the whole issue of "legal" and "illegal" immigrants. And in that, every elected politician has failed. Simply give people the real facts and the real numbers, without any bias, and many of these silly arguments getting in the way of true reform will just vanish.
Attempts have been made to properly address the issue through legislation in Congress, most recently a bipartisan plan under George W. Bush. But an outcry by the many intolerant of anything they see as "amnesty" has scuttled those plans.
Once we had a law called the fugitive slave act which required anyone in the North who became aware of a black person in their midst that escaped slavery, to turn that person in. It was a law that had the enthusiastic support of many. Those who did not abide by the law were "lawbreakers".
jd2 I agree, jd--the whole "give them a path to citizenship" argument rubs a lot of people the wrong way. But again, I think a big part of that is lack of education of the public.
A girl was brought to the US at age 5. She's now in college. That means she's completely accustomed to the US, speaks and writes English, and the US taxpayers have probably invested more than $200K, in her education and health care. She is an asset that the taxpayers invested in, and if they deport her, they lose that asset AND another country gains that asset. It is logical and practical to allow such people to stay, but it can also come with some limitations. (For example, even if they are made citizens, they could be prevented from sponsoring other foreign nationals for citizenship, in the future.)
However, that doesn't mean that EVERY non-citizen currently living in the US should automatically be granted asylum and a path to citizenship. If some guy just snuck into the US 3 years ago from Guatemala, to work mowing lawns to send money back to his family, then just ship him off and be done with him.
If Congress had developed a reasonable plan AND properly educated the public about things like that, instead of repeatedly inferring that every illegal alien could simply stay, then maybe the people would have actually supported it.
" which is why clarifying that a discussion is limited to *illegal* immigrants and not legal immigrants is very important. Looking back, far too often the two are conflated, legal vs illegal, and that distorts any point made by either side of the discussion."
Yes. And the oft-used statement "we're all immigrants" does exactly that (besides being FICTION.) But conflating the two serves one side's crusade.... ends justify the means and all that.... facts be damned....
Thankfully that law was changed jd2.
We need to do the same today, but simply ignoring the law, as seems to be the norm today, isn’t right.
“Ignoring the law seems to be the norm.” Hey, we all know where the buck stops. It slides right across that oily desk of our galavanting groper in chief, a man who’s dedicated to the rule of law and paying off anyone who can prove different.
Facts are our friends.
Fact is we have been deporting like crazy since Obama.
Fact is the number of illegals has been pretty static since mid-Obama.
Fact is that native born are American independent of who your parents are. Its Constitutional. The founding fathers put it there to protect all those Latino rape babies.
Fact is illegals do pay taxes, lots of them, and most wouldn’t pay Federal income tax anyway, not enough income
Fact is illegals don’t use that much taxpayer money over legals EXCEPT for education, which is the law, and its a huge price tag. But legal.
Fact is asylum is the law, not giving asylum seekers access, locking them up, stealing their kids, returning them to danger, is not the law.
Fact is that firing projectiles into Mexico is not the law. Its not even Constitutional to attack another country without Congress.
Having a President’s stooge as AG is not the law or Constitutional.
"Having a President’s stooge as AG is not the law or Constitutional."
It's perfectly constitutional, like it or not. He can appoint anyone he wants, the senate consents. Legal. Constitutional.
Also, the President can declare law, without Congressional approval. He just has to notify them, later, and has to get approval for long-term actions. That's per the War Powers Resolution.
The military didn’t fire anything into Mexico - the border patrol did - and they did it on average of once a month since Obama.
Using your points SD: why do we want a class of people to break the law to come here when they are not delivering enough economic output to even pay federal taxes? To further put a burden on society ?
Once again SD can't resist the chance to bash our president, even when the issue is not applicable to POTUS. In case you're unaware SD, it is congress not the president who make our laws. That is unless you're president and also black. Then you can make laws (DACA) and nobody pushed back in this PC environment. And it was congress not the president who turned down two opportunities this year to provide a path to citizenship for undocumented aliens in the US.
Can see where SD's priorities are... Just let people throwing rocks at the border agents in. They're the cream of the crop...
The DOJ released an opinion that the President has the right to appoint an acting AG. It is on a temporary basis for up to 90 days. Maybe your pal Chris Christie will get the job or better yet Trey Gowdy.
kb2755 No, the Pres can not decalre war but can 1) go anywhere there is a terrorist, 2001 9/11 act or 60-day War powers; you are correct. He will not approach Congress on this.
Not true Skippy. Fake news. Fact check it. This was a militarized force firing OVER the border, not at the border using some bad stuff.
That’s your citizenship criteria; remove the 40% of people that don’t pay income tax because they are economically inferior? Harsh and stupid; they have economic value.
BC - is DACA a law? Because if its a EO; Trump will surpass Obama if he hasn’t already. And what’s black got to do with it? Can’t wait to see you duck or waffle that response. So if your President is impotent when it comes to law, why would you care when I bash him? You don’t think he’s a lying dog? Really? You don’t think he’s the greatest liar to ever take office. 6,000 lies and counting. And now ge supports this racist in Mississippi while dumping on his black teammate in Arizona. Watta guy. How could you bash that?
Think the Constitution trumps DOJ opinion
You know that, regarding the caravan, we aren't talking about DACA, right? DACA has NOTHING to do with this current situation at the border.
We talk about illegals taking our cheese, stealing our jobs, living off Federal handouts while not paying in. Is that really our biggest problem?
What a world….. Trump promises to shut down the Federal Government if Congress does not give him $5B for his wall. Meanwhile he is spending like a thirsty drunk in a BOGO bar, not shrinking government and engaging in wars in a half dozen nations.
Deficit up 25% over last year, expected to clear 40% by EOY
Trump administration Federal spending is up 4%
Tax revenues are up 1%, Corporate tax revenues are down 20%, personal are up 2%. While the total revenues are up, the revenues on the rich and especially corporate are killing any gains.
Whitehouse estimates deficit will be over $1T this year and over $1T per year throughout Trump’s reign
Obama’s deficits equal 2008/459, 09/1413, 10/1294, 11/1300, 12/1087, 13/679, 14/485, 15/438, 16/585
Trump’s are 2017/665 est.’s for 18/+1T, 19/+1T, 20/+1T
While Trump promised a Federal job freeze, said it was in effect in 2017, took credit, and he lied again. The size of government remains unchanged under Trump, there is no formal job freeze. In many parts of government, hiring is like our drunk friend, going wild at the BOGO bar.
Amazing that we are running Great Recession deficits given full employment.
Amazing we are expanding Federal spending 4% while not reducing the size of government but reducing the revenues needed to support said government.
IMO the deficit, debt and secret wars are our number one priority to make better. We are going severely in the wrong direction and there is zero competency, much less desire by our President who has a lifetime history of taking loans he could never pay back. And of lies.
If Trump was not President, Trump would say this President should be deposed.
SD why don't you go look at the video that's out there of some in this caravan and the stupid crap they are doing. You live in an alternate reality...
here's what I got - CBP and tear gas
http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=us+troops+fiire+into+mexico
I even checked the Clinton News Network - nada
https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/25/us/san-ysidro-port-of-entry-closed/index.html
Army says the troops near the border are engineers - are you proporting they fired a crane at them?
https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-military/2018/11/18/migrants-wont-see-armed-us-troops-on-the-border/
"That’s your citizenship criteria; remove the 40% of people that don’t pay income tax because they are economically inferior? Harsh and stupid; they have economic value."
We are talking about ignoring the fact that large groups of people have violated the law created under the authority of Article I, Section 8 of the constitution establishing "a[n] uniform Rule of Naturalization.” Only citizens of the United States whether born or naturalized are granted the rights and privileges of an American.
These are economic immigrants - not persons seeking Asylum who have to substantiate legitimate fears of persecution.
"Migrants with the caravan — many of whom are previously deported illegal aliens — recently admitted to the Washington Post in interviews that they are economic migrants, not asylum-seekers."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/migrant-caravan-swells-to-more-than-5000-as-group-marches-toward-us/2018/10/21/2c864bec-d546-11e8-8384-bcc5492fef49_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.432c64933560
and to the NYT
“There isn’t work, there isn’t money.”
“Instead of getting ahead, it’s more like we went backward,” he said. “There isn’t work, there isn’t money. That’s what’s driving us out of the country.”
Ever Escalante, 27, La Ceiba, Honduras
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/18/world/americas/honduras-migrant-caravan-voices.html
Unless you can show me some invisible ink on the constitution that it becomes void in the event a Donald J. Trump is ever elected President. you have no standing.
these are not persons fleeing persecution - they are seeking economic opportunity which is not a valid reason to circumvent the lawful process.
we have the ability to crack down on employers who knowingly hire illegal immigrants NOW and stop this.
Sec. 274. [8 U.S.C. 1324] INA: ACT 274 - BRINGING IN AND HARBORING CERTAIN ALIENS
https://www.uscis.gov/ilink/docView/SLB/HTML/SLB/0-0-0-1/0-0-0-29/0-0-0-8381.html
I would also refer you to 8 U.S. Code § 1182 - Inadmissible aliens
"(f) Suspension of entry or imposition of restrictions by President
Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate."
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1182
more on why economic immigration does not qualify for asylum
https://thehill.com/homenews/media/417618-cnns-toobin-on-asylum-vs-economic-immigration-you-cant-come-to-the-us-just
Might be my bad, this might be spin: https://www.truthorfiction.com/did-obama-administration-fire-teargas-border-monthly/ Other similar sources agree with you and I am leaning that way. There are soldiers, perhaps unarmed, supporting the BPA at this site. More have just moved in. They are not engineers although many engineers are there.
"These are economic immigrants - not persons seeking Asylum who have to substantiate legitimate fears of persecution." That's a guess, right?
My point was your point: "why do we want a class of people to break the law to come here when they are not delivering enough economic output to even pay federal taxes." By extension, did you just say a number of our HL friends are a class of people you really don't want? Just saying that not having to pay taxes does not mean you don't have economic output.
I have no doubt there are VALID asylum seekers as well as those looking for a better life economically. I would never hazard the guess as to how many. That's your purview. And I think we all know what asylum means. But it does not mean we turn them away because you think you smell a cheater. We should not be that heartless.
Let's just shut down the government until you can have your wall. Go for it.
"Let's just shut down the government until you can have your wall. Go for it."
Let's just shut down the border instead. Kills all the birds with one stone (you know, like the stones the "poor refugees" were throwing at Border Patrol agents, which is what prompted the use of teargas.) No immigration over that border = no illegal immigration over that border. Seems simple enough.
You don't show up at someone's door on Halloween asking for candy, prepared to throw rocks at them and invade their home to TAKE the candy if they don't comply. It's not YOUR home, it's not YOUR candy.
"My point was your point: "why do we want a class of people to break the law to come here when they are not delivering enough economic output to even pay federal taxes." By extension, did you just say a number of our HL friends are a class of people you really don't want? Just saying that not having to pay taxes does not mean you don't have economic output."
"But it does not mean we turn them away because you think you smell a cheater. We should not be that heartless. "
Americans cannot afford to allow this to continue - in NJ for the cost of education alone which is anywhere between 2.5 and 3B depending who you ask.
https://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/homeland-security/352869-the-cost-of-illegal-immigration-to-taxpayers-is-growing
Immigration World Poverty and Gumballs 2010 - Immigration Doesn't Work
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCcFNL7EmwY
we are better helping these folks where they are - if they have legitimate persecution claims - we can address that through foreign policy
Since we want people to follow the lawful process of immigration, I hope that at least there is a process that offers a realistic opportunity for a reasonable number of people. We can't take everyone, obviously.
Does the process really exist? Not sure, here is what you need to do, in Hondurus:
https://hn.usembassy.gov/visas/immigrant-visas/
Looks nearly impossible for many, who don't know anyone. We need some people like this, and compared to the many trying to reach Europe, who are mostly of a different religion, language group, culture, etc, Mexicans and Central Americans are mostly Christian and speak a western language using our alphabet. Over time they should fit in better than a lot of others.
"Americans cannot afford to allow this to continue - in NJ for the cost of education alone which is anywhere between 2.5 and 3B depending who you ask."
I agree, however even if the wall is perfect --- and it won't be, they never are unless you are ready to go "full Berlin iron curtain," then doing this will not effect the NJ school budget one iota. They are still here...….
You know the answer is E-verify for what you are saying; the wall is just political fodder Trump is literally throwing at the wall so you can say "sssssh, it sticks."
They are processing around 60 a day for asylum; honestly can't you see some tempers getting tight in all that?
There are answers here but soldiers, slow downs, separations, and lies are just bogus. Especially the lies.
SD, DACA was an EO enacted by Obama unlawfully allowing illegal aliens to temporarily remain in the US by modifying immigration law. Since DACA was an EO and not a law passed by congress, the current president has authorization to rescind it. However federal judge legislating from the bench voided POTUS from rescinding the DACA. Another unconstitutional move motivated by liberal judges. And if you don't realize Obama got away with multiple lawless activities while president because he was black, then you are even more naive than you initially appear. Or perhaps it's just your liberal mentality blocking good judgement. You also seem to have too much time on your hands, keeping track of perported POTUS lies. You do realize all politicians lie at some point. Obama promised you could keep your doctor, health plan and reveive $2500.00 per year reduction in health insurance premium costs. And we all know how that worked out. Don't we? So if you're making a hobby of counting the number of lies from POTUS, how about a little equal opportunity.
Well I am sure they have legal resources available - there are suits being filed by various groups for the carivan folks and Murphy has committed 2 million of your tax dollars for legal aid.
If you can’t even present yourself for asylum, then all the legal talent in the world means nothing.
asylum is not the only way to immigrate - it is an affirmative defense to immediate removal once caught or they can apply affirmatively if not caught.
https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/immigrate/the-immigrant-visa-process.html
https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/how-united-states-immigration-system-works
they can also apply as refugees while still outside the US at a transition country.
https://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/refugees-asylum/refugees
for example - we had 10 convent locations available for the caravan as they went past
http://usvisamex.com/home/map_of_us_consulates_in_mexico
there are diversity visas and other forms of humanitarian relief that don't involve riding a bus to the border and throwing rocks at the CBP.
I do know the answer is E-verify - and I posted a law above that can prosecute violators - they need to have no legal means of support if they enter the country illegally and the only way to do that is to criminally prosecute those that seek to exploit them
"If you can’t even present yourself for asylum, then all the legal talent in the world means nothing."
Well throwing stones and climbing the fence ain't making their case any better!
Good points skippy. So?
Thanks JR; I bet they missed that. If we only had a wall, then they couldn’t throw things. Only 5B to make it stop, right? Smart thinking.
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