Princess Towers - Bilby Road

Whatever happened to the adding apartment buildings to Bilby Road?

Susieq Susieq
Oct '18

Was that Pete Paftinos doing that project?

animal lover animal lover
Oct '18

Dead like most things in NJ


not dead, still in the works. issues came up, there is no set start to construction but it is not dead

Jim L Jim L
Oct '18

Just what we need. More kids in our school system.

Movingsoon Movingsoon
Oct '18

It's dead until they make the "official" it's dead announcement.

What's needed in NJ is municipality consolidation. Stop over spending on redundant services, police, fire, superintendents, BOE's and other fat. NJ has over 585 municipalities, ridiculous.


nope not dead,

Jim L Jim L
Oct '18

Don

Why are you opposed to Hackettstown and Great Meadows merging school districts?

Bug3
Oct '18

It should be dead. If the funding was there and the perceived ability to sell what they build was there, we'd see progress and construction.

So do tell what the hold up is Jim L?


In fact no discussions or plans since 2013...that's almost 6 years!! It's dead.


It's not just overcrowded schools. Do any of these local municipalities come together to discuss the weight of traffic on the roads. In the last twenty years 57, 46, 206, and 80 have become nightmares to travel on.


JYM - They don't care about the traffic, only the tax revenue. In Washington they are planning on putting in a 300 townhome community near the Shop Rite on Route 31. It already takes me 35-40 minutes to get to 78 from Oxford now. I can't imagine what another 300 homes would do to the commute.

Calico696 Calico696
Oct '18

sorry Don I am not at liberty to discuss the details, I can only share that the developer is still very eager to see this project through and is working on it

I can only share what has been discussed at public meeting and the developer has shown up to public meetings regarding this project and has discussed publically that he is still looking to complete the project.

Jim L Jim L
Oct '18

Your so right Calico, I went past the New WaWa today. That stretch of road reminds me of Rt. 37. Toms River.

pampurr pampurr
Oct '18

When my Family moved to around these parts, traffic was very nice but the roads were terrible. Then again it was 1739.

One-eyed Poacher One-eyed Poacher
Oct '18

I'm not opposed Bug but for it. Read my post again. I'm all for any municipal consolidation.


I am so tired of seeing useless stores going up. We need another convenience store like a hole in the head. I have tried and tried to get a “real” gym in Independence or Hackettstown but to no avail. There is not one place to swim indoors. Also what do all the middle age women in Independence and Hackettstown do. I never can find anyone to do anything with. It’s like ghost towns, lol. Just an observation. If anyone has any ideas of groups or get together, please let me know.

sunflower01 sunflower01
Oct '18

Sunflower how have you tried and tried to get a gym in Hackettstown? No one has ever approached the BiD with interest in putting in a gym in town. There a quite a few locations that could hold a gym including the old Marshall’s location unfortunately no one has shown interest in opening one here.

Also for Hackettstown residents there was indoor swimming options. Centenary’s pool was open to all residents free of charge. Sadly only a handful of residents used it and now Centenary is closing the pool for good.

Jim L Jim L
Oct '18

"Sunflower how have you tried and tried to get a gym in Hackettstown? "

Tried probably means posting on forums and social media about how Hackettstown NEEDS a gym and/or trying to convince someone else to open one. ;-)

Calico696 Calico696
Oct '18

At last count the number of gyms is right about the number of convenience stores. If we don't need more of one, why do we need the other? With so many gyms, it's much easier to just convince one what the idea of "real" means to any one person.

You probably also want to look into meetup.com or just go down to Panera and look at the board with all of the clubs.


Yes I have talked about fitness center. Don’t want just another basement one, we could use an up to date with indoor track, pool and saunas, etc. why can’t we try to get a WMCA. And I am in Independence and it wasn’t free for us.

sunflower01 sunflower01
Oct '18

Last I heard that the development was stopped because the developer wanted to add more residential instead of Commerce. There's an overabundance of vacant Commerce in town. I believe he had to work it out with the mortgage company to allow it to be changed. Then on to the planning board.
I also believe that there's a problem with the land settling there. If you have been to the Medical Arts Building you know that there are doors that don't even close all the way.
As far as a real gym I think we could kill two birds with one stone with this plan.
Why don't we apply to Green Acres to purchase the old middle school and add that to the recreation department. Turn the Middle School into a YMCA and asked the YMCA to manage it. This way we can have a gym, installing an indoor pool, have open rooms for meetings to include clubs such as Scouts or others. There was a plan years ago for a building to be built on the property with the hospital to allow Warren County Community College to House nursing classes. Why not see if we can rent out rooms to Warren County Community College for education and it could be their East Campus.
Then take the money from the sale of the Middle School to build a another Middle School on current property owned by the district that is more energy efficient and subject to expansion in the future if needed.
Rumor was that the school district was looking at the old Compaq building on Bilby Road due to the open floor plan to develop into a middle school. The unfortunate part is some busing may be required.

Just a thought


Sorry but talking about what you want doesn’t actually count as “trying”. The reason we can’t get a YMCA to build here is because THEY don’t want do. They feel the Randolph location is close enough that building one here won’t attract enough new members.

Jim L Jim L
Oct '18

So you want the Town to buy the middle school from the BOE and turn it into a YMCA and then have the BOE take the money from the sale of the middle school to build a new Middle School. That’s what I am reading???

Jim L Jim L
Oct '18

There was talk about moving the middle school or high school to the Compaq building area, but I don't think the area is cut out to footprint a school. No recess areas etc. Also not sure the zoning would work. Bottom line is whoever is in charge needs to look at all these vacant buildings and ask themselves do we need more vacant buildings?

Getting to be a common sight in NJ, empty warehouse and small business complexes. How many companies are in those complexes, they mostly look empty and abandoned. Last thing we need is a ghetto of apartment complexes to rival Caprini Green that will ultimately end up half empty. The Bid in this town is completely out of touch and behind the times. Next they'll tell you we need a mall.


"So you want the Town to buy the middle school from the BOE and turn it into a YMCA and then have the BOE take the money from the sale of the middle school to build a new Middle School. That’s what I am reading???"

Only if the middle school has a pool (-;

ianimal ianimal
Oct '18

Just brain storming Jim.

We are already held to the greenachers' standard with all or our recreation why not let it work for us. Less money out of our pockets to renovate or build a school. Most schools in the style of the middle school end up as appartments or open space lot. The property is sold next to nothing so it will.get developed. This will keep it in the control of the town and bring in money from somewhere else instead of 100% out of our pockets.

Like i also said maybe a deal can be worked out with WCCC to house classes there and bring down the renovation costs.

IANIMAL you put a pool in.

I currently work for a town that is much like Hackettstown and they have their own recreation building that has a gym basketball courts and so on. Less than 5 miles away is a YMCA and a Jewish Community Center which are all competing for members.

No project just happened without someone dreaming it up no matter how crazy it sounded.


There are other buildings in town that are better suited for a Rec Center than the Middle School. And you don't need Green Acres money, there are Grants available through other Government agencies. I know I have applied for them.

The building across from Tannery Field, the building at the end of W Stiger where Chill out was. The building on Rte57 where the skating rink was. Many options in town, the problem is where does the $ to buy them come from. I have and continue to apply for grants because I know taxpayers aren't going to want to put up 1-2million in building a rec center.

Jim L Jim L
Oct '18

The idea to buy the middle school was to kill two birds with one stone. We dont want to raise taxes and that would take care of some of the costs with all the plans out there.


You can’t use green acres money to buy a property and then turn around and sell it or rent it out. Once it’s green acres it’s green acres forever. So your idea of buying the school with green acres money and then turning it into a YMCA and or renting it out is not logical

Jim L Jim L
Oct '18

No we would not sell it. Just have the YMCA manage it and allow members of their facilities to use it and allow our members to use the YMCA facilities such as Randolph.

Now you are telling me that none of the recreational property is ever rented or a fee paid by any organization?


I think he said YMCA has no interest in Hackettstown

Bug3
Oct '18

Bug3
I know they would not buy a property build and open one. But managing one they might. They have signed contracts to manage recreational building before. This allows programs to be put in place based on things that work. This way you are not reinventing the wheel but can tweek programs for your community.


Green acres properties must be run by Rec dept so having YMCA even manage it would not work. Huge restrictions and guidelines when you get green acres money and have to be affordable to the public

Jim L Jim L
Oct '18

PLEASE NO GREEN ACRES ANYTHING!!! Once you get the state involved they run the show. If it's a Green Acres property, it must be open to the public, like the "town" pool, and we all know how that went...


Please people, stop trying to get the government involved in everything - whatever they touch they screw up.

Laurel Laurel
Oct '18

I could have sworn I heard something on WRNJ recently that there was a change made to this property's 'designation' - but didn't catch the whole thing and couldn't find it in the minutes Also noticed that proposed development in on the agenda for tonight's BOE meeting. Does anyone have a link or update so I can understand the facts. TIA

jpb3302 jpb3302
Jan '19

I think its section 8 housing

Bug3
Jan '19

Bug3 you should probably not comment on things you know nothing about. The development is NOT going to be Section 8 housing. In Fact almost the complete opposite as it is being advertised as high end rental units and being marketed to healthcare professionals that work at the hospital. That being said with all developments in NJ a certain # of units must be set aside for affordable housing but it is not Section 8 housing.

Now that enough public meetings have taken place I can share some info. The developer expressed his trouble getting bank funding for the project and asked the town if he can pay for a Redevelopment study to see if the lots qualify for an Area in need of Redevelopment. If it meets the requirements than he can apply for certain tax abatements which he feels will help him secure funding. The developer meet with the BOE in Dec to discuss the estimated impact to the schools. However since this project has been in the works for years, the BOE has already included this project in their demo studies and have planned for it.

So the lots met some requirements for an Area in need of Redevelopment and now a Redevelopment Plan will take place.

Jim L Jim L
Jan '19

Ummm to redevelop you have to include some low income housing...if you are silly enough to think luxury apartments will work in a town that is actively recruiting an aldi store amongst other working class stores..you guys have rocks in your head

Bug3
Jan '19

"you have to include some low income housing"

Jim L is right. That's not true. There are other options like paying into a fund to make up for it. FUD doesn't pay.


Jim- Do you happen to know the firm that will conduct the Redevelopment study and create the plan? Just curious.

Also, is the retail aspect of the project still in place? That would really enhance the site making it more appealing for sure.


no I don't know the firm's name off the top of my head

And no, the Retail aspect of the site is dead. There was suppose to be a separate entrance off Bilby Rd for the retail but the county would not allow the entrance as there was not enough site line from the train tracks in their opinion. Which is fine and is what the Planning Board at the time wanted. The town is pushing for Retail to be on Main St so having a small little retail building in the middle of no where wasn't very appealing to the town.

And Bug again the key word is "Some" as in some of the units will be set aside for Affordable and out of those Affordable units, some must be low income. So overall I think it's like 5 units that will be Low Income so to call the development Section 8 housing is wrong. And I didn't call them "luxury" apartments, but yes this town can attract higher end renters, not everyone that works/lives here is poor. The developer stated he has a waiting list of professionals looking to move in when it finally gets built.

Jim L Jim L
Jan '19

Can anyone tell me where the location of these buildings will be? Bilby Road closer to willow grove or Bilby Road closer to 517? Is this the same project that was proposed in back of the quick check on 517? I do not believe that is Hackettstown but independence. So, I’m guessing this is closer to the Hackettstown medical arts building. Is that correct?

Consigliere
Jan '19

Re: Princess Towers - Bilby Road

It’s closer to Willow Grove end. Across from the industrial building. There is currently a Medical building in the back. The Apartment building will go in front of that building

Where the red X is

Jim L Jim L
Jan '19

Ok thx Jim.

Consigliere
Jan '19

Thanks Jim - this is the piece I heard about on WRNJ and was asking about, appreciate the update.

Personally, while I understand the land is essentially wasting away - I am apprehensive on the impact to schools. Even with it being included in the impact study that was conducted.

While I imagine this is the only person currently willing to develop on this land - I think this would have been a good opportunity to pause on granting a redevelopment 'ok' and see if there were potential other uses for the property.

jpb3302 jpb3302
Jan '19

The developer owns the land not the town so it would be up to him to see if there were anyone else willing to buy it and build something different. But the developer is very eager to get this project up and running so I don’t see him selling the lots.

Jim L Jim L
Jan '19

I’m pretty sure there is no such thing as “ section 8 housing” anyone can rent out their house or apartment to someone that has a section 8 voucher if they are willing to comply with the section 8 program and inspections
I know a few people who live in those new townhomes in panther valley (indigo ct) that are using their section 8 voucher to cover their rent.
That’s guaranteed money right there!

H-town Mama H-town Mama
Jan '19

@H-town Mama, I highly doubt residents with section 8 vouchers are living in Panther Valley.

Stateworker Stateworker
Jan '19

a little about section 8: What's the difference between tenant-based and project-based Section 8?
Tenant-Based Section 8 - commonly known as the Housing Choice Voucher program - is attached to you the tenant. When you move, the assistance can move with you.

Project-Based Section 8 is attached to a specific property. If you move into a property that participates in the Project-Based Section 8 Program, you get the same type of financial assistance as with a voucher, but if you move out it stays with the property and benefits the next resident of that home.

Many affordable apartment communities across the country have project-based Section 8 assistance. These properties also tend to have long waiting lists.

4catmom 4catmom
Jan '19

Stateworker, every town needs to have affordable housing units so yes there are some in PV that have low income (section 8) vouchers. For example, The new development The Meadows in PV is currently building their affordable housing models.

Jim L Jim L
Jan '19

State worker, I am a state worker and I can tell you that there are people living in those new townhomes that are paying their rent using section 8 vouchers

H-town Mama H-town Mama
Jan '19

sunflower01

Need something to do? Volunteer at the Trinity Thrift Shop in Hackettstown. No matter what shift you volunteer at you will meet people and have FUN at it. You need not be a member of the church to do so. In fact, there are many who volunteer there that aren't members of the church that the thrift shop belongs to. Hope to meet you soon there.By the way, I'm from Independence and volunteer with others from our town there.

magpie magpie
Jan '19

Jim- Was there a vote last night? I had to leave the meeting around 10:00PM.


Yes the revised site plan was approved last night.

Jim L Jim L
Jul '19

Excellent. Thanks!


So what did they change?

Bug3
Jul '19

not much, the overall design and layout of the property was similar. They added 2 nice clubhouses for the tenants to use. The overall number of units and the % that were set aside for COAH were the main changes. Removed the original retail building and converted that building to residential units.

Overall a nice, higher end rental property in town to give rentals better options than some current dated rental properties in town. Pet friendly units.

Jim L Jim L
Jul '19

So no business and added more units which could and will most likely mean more children in the school system. What was the additional potential student impact provided in their presentation?

michelemorp michelemorp
Jul '19

Yeah great so unaffordable rentals that'll probably cost $3000 a month.

Metsman Metsman
Jul '19

I like the HIGH END rental idea keeps out the trash just my opinion.

GOAT
Jul '19

yea no they are not going to cost $3,000 a month. Jersey City is not even that high. It's still warren county.

Fair Market Rent for a two-bedroom apartment in Warren County is $1,297 per month.

https://www.rentdata.org/warren-county-nj-hud-metro-fmr-area/2019

Jim L Jim L
Jul '19

What was the additional potential student impact provided in their presentation?

The developer presented to the BOE their study on number of kids they except to add to the school system prior to last nights meeting. Also these units have been part of the school's BOE demographic study for the past 6 years. An increase of 75 units will not have a major impact vs what the BOE has been projecting from this project for the last 6 years. While the overall number of units have increased, the developer changed the layout of the rentals to mostly 1-2 bedrooms so the total number of bedrooms didn't increase that much.

Jim L Jim L
Jul '19

Gee, I wasn’t that far off on my forecasting on the changes. More units, smaller families. Heh, heh.

Jim L. Is there a definition, an example, a notion what “higher end rental property” and how COAH will fit with that? I see higher end and I’m thinking dispensary ;-). Or historic....

Higher is better IMO. And least for now. The CVS ones will be enough new cheap for now.

Strangerdanger Strangerdanger
Jul '19

So will these caprini green projects lower our taxes?


"So will these caprini green projects lower our taxes?"

Another uniformed statement. Do you really believe these are "projects"? C'mon man understand the facts.

I'm absolutely sure Jim would agree with this statement. To clearly and fully understand the scope of any given project or application before the town, one should attend the meetings. While reading the minutes in detail greatly helps, attending a meeting gives a community member a voice and opportunity to ask questions or make a statement about any aspect of a proposed project or application as well as any impact it may or may not have on the town infrastructure, neighborhood, or the price of tea in China if that is a concern..


Don is a troll no point responding to his posts Greg.

Jim L Jim L
Jul '19

"Jim L. Is there a definition, an example, a notion what “higher end rental property” and how COAH will fit with that?"

I'm not 100% sure what your question is, but the COAH units will be mixed in with the non COAH units in 5 of the 6 buildings so there will not be a separate COAH building in the development. The units will look the same, the COAH units will be slighlty smaller by a few sq ft. That will be the only noticeable difference.

Jim L Jim L
Jul '19

Thanks. Sometimes they just price-down/subsidize. Spreading them helps so that’s good.

But no $$$ definition on high end beyond the apartment size, etc. How do they know what they expect is what they will get.

Ps: can see new website now.

Strangerdanger Strangerdanger
Jul '19

Another example of Don's lack of research.

The proper reference is "Cabrini Green":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabrini%E2%80%93Green_Homes

Barnacle Bill
Jul '19

its not lack of research, he's just being a troll. I stated that they are higher end rentals and he called them public housing projects.

Jim L Jim L
Jul '19

Jim L - Don just likes to complain - facts be damned.

Barnacle Bill
Jul '19

Again, how do you know they are higher end? Is there a guideline? Metric? Description?

Sounds all good but higher end Hackettstown might mean something different than high end Mendham and might look like public housing to someone from there.

Another question. Since the new website is so nice, I plugged around and found the Historic Commission. Do we pay for them? How do they assess applications for renovation and remodeling? What’s the model? After QC debacle, I was surprised they existed.

Strangerdanger Strangerdanger
Jul '19

the amenities, landscaping, appliances, size, quality, appearance, materials, ect.

The drawing and site plan is at town hall available for anyone in the pubilc to see. go take a look.


And the Historical Commission like every other board in town is made up of volunteer residents. Care to join? They meet the 3rd Thursday of every month at 7:30pm. Feel free to show up to a meeting an ask them all your questions they will be happy to answer them.

Jim L Jim L
Jul '19

Hmmm. Book by its cover analysis. Well, if it paints a good picture, that’s good enough for Hackettstown. And adding more kids in replacement of ratable retail means more of this good enough. Enough of good enough for me

Thanks for the offer for the commission. Sounds like a good thing for residents to do.

Strangerdanger Strangerdanger
Jul '19

Good to see we all share the same skepticism about this project that still looks like a vacant pole of dirt with some abandoned machines.


Just because I type-o the spelling of Cabrini Green doesn't mean I'm not familiar with the reference. After all I was the one who made the reference. And if I'm not mistaken Oh what a "high-end" project they were supposed to be.

Bottom line is you can look around and see all the vacant spaces in business parks and other failed attempts. But to abandon a ratable with a retail presence or something folks in town can actually use is lazy. Certainly the one thing Hackettstown doesn't need is another rental property. And one of this magnitude that could sit relatively empty.


Is there a web-site available to view the layout of these apartments yet?

SusieQ SusieQ
Jan '20

Its a shame they could never put a supermarket on that side of town

Bug3
Jan '20

um I don't think anyone was ever looking to put a supermarket there nor would any supermarket want to go there. They want to be in busy retail shopping centers not in the middle of no where.

Jim L Jim L
Jan '20

when they build all those apartments..duh..there will be a need for a super market..think of the mess.. The Independence project behind quick check..the huge project by CVS and princess towers....all that traffic going thru hackettstown to get to shoprite..but alas planning is not very strong in Hackettstown...they just make big messes

bug3
Jan '20

Pretty sure those apartments will be open by 2100 at rate things move around here


The town just looks at the $$ and really doesn't care about the added traffic, or overall effect things have on the residents unfortunately.

Yes traffic studies are done, but it is only for the immediate area

I agree that all these approved projects, once built, will just add to the traffic problem in town, and yes, these people are going to be shopping at the same stores that are currently over crowded....there is no arguing that.

Approve approve approve though....how many apartments/town homes are currently approved but not built? Serious question.....Between bilby, bergen tool, and behind weis?

Darrin Darrin
Jan '20

What’s going on behind weis?

Philliesman Philliesman
Jan '20

Behind Weis ? Did the farm get bought out ?


I'm sure he meant Wawa. Lions gate


Yes, my bad, wawa

w~~~~close enough :-O

Darrin Darrin
Jan '20

no he is correct on Weis. to meet Affordable housing requirements, the town is planning low income apts.

freedom12 freedom12
Jan '20

I have lived in Hackettstown for over 50 years. When I bought here the realtor said that Hackettstown was going to be like Princeton. A nice well thought out community.

Bergen Machinery closed shortly after our arrival then sat there in a run down state for how many years? Finally, after much discussion by the town etc CVS was built. It was the understanding that behind this store all the way back to Fourth Street was going to be some apartments/condos with specialty stores also. Years later it is still a mess with pushed dirt hills growing weeds and small trees on top of it.

Bilby Road has property in front of the medical building with pushed dirt hills growing weeds there also. There was a promise of housing there.

Behind WaWa was promised a nice development also. No movement there either.

All three of these promises have had nothing done and make our town look really low class.

Maybe our town needs a whole new group of Politicians with new ideas ?????

Bernie Bernie
Jan '20

During Bergen tool/CVS it was agreed that the remainder of the buildings be demolished and the site be converted to turf at the time of approval for C.O. (go ahead and check the CVS resolution Jim)...not sure who/why that was not followed through with....to this day

This honestly should be a requirement, a construction site after x amount of time must be planted and maintained by the owner, so that we avoid eye sores such as these all over town.

Typical developer move, let a site go ugly for long enough and the town is sure to approve what you really want....since it looks "better" then it does now, and it's "about time" something is done with the site

Happens time and time again right in front of the towns eyes, and we just let it happen

Darrin Darrin
Jan '20

I’m 30 and I can remember being a kid asking my parents what they planned to build at these three sites it’s been that long


“Maybe our town needs a whole new group of Politicians with new ideas ?”

Not sure how politicians can change the profit dynamics of any new development.

Would anyone here spend money on something that wouldn’t have a decent roi? Of course not, which is why these things sit idle. The money doesn’t make sense, and I would suggest that if anyone here could do better then make an offer for the properties.

justintime justintime
Jan '20

Politicians have nothing to do with it. These are privately owned land. The developers decide what they want to build on their land. Can’t force them to build once the town approves the site plan. When it is financial suitable for them to build they will.

Now you can argue the town could have purchased the Bergen tool site when they had the chance but it would have been $1mill to buy plus $1mill + to clean it up before you even build on it. Not sure the residents would have wanted to spend that much on it.

Jim L Jim L
Jan '20

The only real eye sore is Bergen. Bilby is all grown in and you can’t see behind WaWa. It’s been vacant since the mall closed down decades ago.

Jim L Jim L
Jan '20

Didn’t the town allow the Developer of the Bergen Site to do just Phase 1 when they could have made them do Phase 1 & 2 at the same time. At least that was my recollection although I may be wrong.

kb2755 kb2755
Jan '20

I think maybe politicians can have something to do with it. If they can’t, then who can?

Can you not require work to be completed to receive a CO? Agreements are made and then not followed through on. Surely there must be a way for the town to have some teeth. Simply saying it’s owned by a private entity is a cop out. Why have the town involved at all then. So you can brag about the curb you designed leaving Wawa?

Are there not property maintenance ordinances that can be enforced? Ordinances about sites left to “grow in” and not properly graded. Ordinances about piles of exposed soil, without proper erosion control measures in places, left for years. But hey, if you think it looks good because it’s grown in or you can’t see the problem from the road then it’s not a problem.

The town doesn’t own the sites, but there are property ordinances that can be enforced to at least make the damn thing look like it’s maintained and control erosion from years of stockpiled soil left to weather and wash away.
And if the ordinances don’t exist, then make them exist.

Just a bunch of unfinished sh$& around town that doesn’t look good.

Ordained
Jan '20

The town is turning ugly for sure. Loads of unfinished "planned" construction. More and more stores closing on Main street. And the only thing in sight is more apartments for renters and transient drifting people.

Yeah I think the town politicians have something to do with it. Lot's of planning but no communication with other government agencies to ensure traffic or schools can handle the increased loads. Just take the money and run and kick the can.


What I don't understand is here on HL there is a lot of opinions and such, typically uninformed, and discussion about various ongoing building projects and apparently the overall demise of Hackettstown in general. However at every Town Council meeting as well as at almost every Land Use Board meeting there is an opportunity for PUBLIC discussion. I attend a great deal of both of the aforementioned meetings and rarely see or hear the outrage, concern or any of these other dire circumstances blathered about here being brought up at the appropriate meetings.

Just saying. LOL


"More and more stores closing on Main street."

I know you're not a big fan of facts Don, but there are fewer stores empty on Main St than there has been in the past 15 years.

Jim L Jim L
Jan '20

I stand corrected Jim. Main street is wonderful looking. Great job!


Greg, my husband and I went to many meetings regarding Bergen Tool to speak publicly. None of our ideas were even considered. I must emphasize there were many others that attended and spoke at the Town Council meetings as well.
At one meeting I was called a liar by a corporate lawyer. So what do you expect out of these people? (Kangaroo Court)

No matter what you do the agenda is already baked in.

Pampurr Pampurr
Jan '20

Have any of you townies been to Morristown or Somerville? Lots of beautiful apartments with more and more being built.

Philliesman Philliesman
Jan '20

These are the daze of our lives......

"I know you're not a big fan of facts Don, but there are fewer stores empty on Main St than there has been in the past 15 years." Uh oh, recession coming, happens every time they fix things up :>(

I will say the pink sidewalks seem to have held up and aged well with a nice, not-pink, cement patina. Very lucky. Could have put in cobblestone like Washington and ended up with the center of town all buggered up.

"I attend a great deal of both of the aforementioned meetings and rarely see...." We are extremely polite in public.....but just get us behind an anonymous keyboard affair.

"Just take the money and run and kick the can." Less coffee Don, less coffee. And guess what --- there is no money to take.....

"Are there not property maintenance ordinances that can be enforced?" Better to ask: "Are there no prisons? And the union workhouses - are they still in operation?"

"The only real eye sore is Bergen." Unless you count Marley's paint job.... Or the dilapidated Barber shop. Or.....

"Yes, my bad, wawa"
Are you crying? Are you crying? ARE YOU CRYING? There's no crying! THERE'S NO CRYING IN HACKETTSTOWN LIFE! :>)

"Behind Weis ? Did the farm get bought out ?" Who bought the farm?

"Its a shame they could never put a supermarket on that side of town." Probably a Whole Food or Trader Joes...…

Like sands through the hourglass, these are the daze of our lives......

strangerdanger strangerdanger
Jan '20

Always been the case. Philliesman, More affluence.

Could our town today support an Aldi’s? Or a seafood store? Seriously, how many Barbershops, Nail and Hair Salons and Quick Checks does a town need.

Pampurr Pampurr
Jan '20

A Scrooge quote and a Marley reference in a single post... what the Dickens, SD... well-played, sir.

ianimal ianimal
Jan '20

Greg,

I unfortunatly somewhat agree with pam, I too have gone to many meetings and it's quite deflating when nobody values your opinion, no matter how many people you round up....just look at the quick check project for example, multiple residents (more then they could fit into the room) clearly did NOT want it, additionally the town did NOT have to change the land use, but they opted to anyways and just steamrolled what the residents wanted.....case in point right there.

When a town just steam rolls its residents (not saying this is always the case, because they changed alot of CVS because of things I, as well as other residents brought up) who is going to want to go and voice their opinion?

Bergen tool for example, multiple people asked for things to be put in place to keep the remainder of the property from being left they way it currently is......residents warned the town this exact thing would happen, but the town bought the developers testimony the he would be building very soon hook line and sinker!!!

Mind you, some precautions were included, remander of the site turned to turf for example, but then later just ignored...even though its written right in the resolution, agreed upon, stamped, hammer dropped.....so what now? If the town can't even keep what they promise to do, and promise wont happen, why bother voicing your opinion?

Tractor trailers at CVS is another example....time and time again they broke this rule and the town refused to take any repercussions against CVS.......

It gets old after a while

Darrin Darrin
Jan '20

.just look at the quick check project for example, multiple residents (more then they could fit into the room) clearly did NOT want it, additionally the town did NOT have to change the land use, but they opted to anyways and just steamrolled what the residents wanted.....case in point right there.

Darrin you are very misinformed on the QC matter.

Jim L Jim L
Jan '20

One of the biggest problems is Code Enforcement.

There are plenty of restrictions in the town ordinances but the town (i.e. Mayor and Council), by it's own admission, refuses to invest money in a full time code enforcement official. The current part time position does not allow enough hours to follow up and charge violators for offenses.

Press the council to include a full time official in its budget and change the code to cover the expense with appropriate fines.

Barnacle Bill
Jan '20

Can you elaborate Jim, as opposed to just a "your wrong"

The town had every right to not allow that residential property be converted to commercial. The fact that quick check said they would still build in my opinion was a total bluff, if you or anyone else believed that, your just silly, they would have never fit adequate traffic flow of had acceptable barriers to residents to get it approved.... then again the way our town approves crappy plans, who knows

The bottom line is The town made it way easier in them then they had to.

Darrin Darrin
Jan '20

I don't recall QC saying they would still build if they didn't get those 2 lots on Washington, in fact I believe the said the opposite of that as Greg was the one that asked them that question.

Darrin you attended 1 meeting on QC and even that meeting you left early. I'm not going to elaborate on all the facts you missed in the other meetings.

And I agree with you 100% B.Bill. I have been advocating for more enforcement hours for our zoning officer as has the rest of the members of the now Land Use board.

Jim L Jim L
Jan '20

You may want to read back in the minutes to refresh your memory buddy, especially before saying someone is misinformed on a public forum.

Secondly, sort of wierd you "think" you know how many meetings I was at and when I left that apparent "only meeting I was at" almost two years ago....for your information I attended multiple meetings, i will admit not all due to having a baby in February, but surely not "one" thank you very much

Its attitudes like yours which is why others dont go to meetings, or voice their concerns....the whole shutup...your wrong, I'm right, but I am not going to give you the time of day to have a discussion with you.

Darrin Darrin
Jan '20

The only thing a full time zoning officer will do is harass home owners. If the part time guy can't do anything about obvious problems...giving him more money is stupid

Bug3
Jan '20

Darrin if you were at the meetings then you would have known there was a major turning point that flipped some votes to yeses. I’m not going to go into detail on it here. I have a new cell # then the one you have of mine so if you want to email me I’ll fill you in on what you’re missing

Jim L Jim L
Jan '20

Why can't you discuss it here. Is it a secret? Where is the transparency? Don't the tax payers of Hackettstown have a right to know?

pampurr pampurr
Jan '20

Oh Pam you’re the best. Go to meetings and you would have known. Or listen to Meetings. I’m not going embarrass someone who made a huge error in judgement

Jim L Jim L
Jan '20

The QC turning point was when the developer took the job on the parking commission( or some other)...the problem is that most residents trust the town council/ planning board to do the right thing...they shouldn't

Bug3
Jan '20

Lmfao

I am not going to embarrass someone......after fully attempting to embarrass them.........really Jim?

Secondly, you only mentioned one project, what about the other project points I made.....or do you only harp on people when they are wrong according to you?

Darrin Darrin
Jan '20

Bug, What developer! Tell me your not talking about Rice? God, I hope not.

Darrin, hush hush you know it’s a secret.

Pampurr Pampurr
Jan '20

There is no contest to the bergen tool conversion to turf and Jim knows it, I have the resolution document, and have posted it to this site in the past...pretty clear cut that the town did not follow through with that.

Darrin Darrin
Jan '20

Break out the popcorn! I got 2:1 odds on Darrin :-)

The fact is that the area behind CVS is a blight ruining housing values in that area and beyond. And that, my friends, is the direct result of our town planners. Their plans should increase values, not destroy them. Apparently, that is their plan.

CVS seems to be doing well. Parking lot full quite often, no floods yet, haven’t noticed the traffic.....

Strangerdanger Strangerdanger
Jan '20

"The QC turning point was when the developer took the job on the parking commission"

LMAO now thats funny.

Jim L Jim L
Jan '20

Pampurr..go to the hackettstown website and look at the parking commission members

Bug3
Jan '20

I do see Peter Paftinos as a member...

Barnacle Bill
Jan '20

I believe in keeping my business in town. But in doing so, I am hearing the parking authority is doing a lousy job.. Today, I got my hair done at Designs by Kim. Clients complaining about the parking meters, being broken and the parking meter people handing out tickets for meters that don't work . How do you attract business in the area with that! Good Question. People will stop shopping.

Oh yeah I saw that Bug3. Bless the Town Council for stuffing him in there..UGH!!!
Any comments Jim? I see you are on it as well.

pampurr pampurr
Jan '20

Pampurr, just an observation, but it seems that you have an opinion on a lot that goes on in town. Have you ever tried to volunteer your time to serve on any of the town boards?

Richie
Jan '20

What’s funny Pam is we just had a P.A. meeting on Monday and none of what you posted came up. There are no reports of broken meters and no complaints from people who claim to have gotten a ticket on a broken meter. Weird how you always seem to hear things that aren’t true.

unfortunately what is true is we had a meter person quit last year because they got tired of being harassed and having racial slurs thrown in their face. That sucks, no one should have to deal with that. But I guess they were doing a lousy job and deserved it.

And I agree with you, thankfully council put Peter on P.A. at least he shows up to meeting. That’s the hardest thing in filling these committees positions, finding someone who will actually attend the meetings

And yes Pam I am on P.A. along with a couple other volunteer positions in town. I guess my question is why aren’t you. Especially since you like to mention how long you have lived In town. What are you doing to give back to town?

Jim L Jim L
Jan '20

Jim, first your calling me a liar....So respectful you are. NOT.
But Of course you wouldn’t know about the older lady that went to fight the parking ticket In court she got by the woman that is now no longer working as a meter reader. Hmmmmm.

Pampurr Pampurr
Jan '20

Ritchie, my husband has lived in the town 62 years. He was asked to run for Mayor and declined. As for myself I prefer to work with horses and dogs as a volunteer. They are better than most people.

Pampurr Pampurr
Jan '20

Not to fight you Pampurr but I really do enjoy a good debate and I don’t know jim and haven’t ever met him before but I do know all the guy does is relay information and you people cry. I don’t like seeing the town look depressed either as I love Hackettstown. But where are these broken meters and wouldn't itjust be easier to call the town directly and report it instead of basically crying on a public form? I’m around town on the weekends haven’t had a problem in any of the lots or even in Main Street with the meters. And why is every so sensitive on a public form did you not get enough love as a child? So sad


Not crying just stating facts. .. I decided to walk to town now. This way I avoid feeding broken meters behind Exit Reality.

Pampurr Pampurr
Jan '20

thanks I guess now maybe some can report it tomorrow to the town and it will get fixed.


Well the Mayor position is up for election this year. Maybe we can convince him to run and save our town.

Help us Obi-Wan Kenobi you’re our only hope

Jim L Jim L
Jan '20

Jim, he declined to run if you read my prior post.

Pampurr Pampurr
Jan '20

But his town needs him more than ever so hopefully we can all convince him to change his mind. I mean he's lived here for 62 years!!!! What other qualifications do you need to be Mayor than that!!!

Jim L Jim L
Jan '20

If there is a broken meter or two, how would the town know that unless someone reports it? Meters break, just like everything else. I don't see why a bunch of people would freak out over that. If you get a ticket and feel the meter is broken, put some change in it, take a video to show the timing is off and present that in court as evidence with your ticket. Fine gone, meter will be fixed, problem solved. Getting all pissed off and bitching at the hair salon seems silly and immature. It's called maturity.

Laurel Laurel
Jan '20

Considering your past history of Mayors in this town, need no qualifications other than to be able to breathe.

Pampurr Pampurr
Jan '20

How sad that a 62 year resident who sees his beloved town crumbling around him with broken meters won't answer the call of the people and lead our town out from the ruins and back to glory. The members of HL and all of Hackettstown beg him to reconsider and run for mayor in 2020!!

Jim L Jim L
Jan '20

You could try but I bet there is paperwork to file so probably not your cup of tea to screw that up and get creamed by a rank amateur.

Strangerdanger Strangerdanger
Jan '20

Dude, is it really necessary to berate someone?

Sometines it's just best to say nothing at all

Darrin Darrin
Jan '20

you're right Darrin,

probably should just sit behind my computer and call every department in town from the police, BID, parking authority, Land Use Board and Mayor/council lousy. That's the HL way!! But don't dare call out someone who constantly complains to actually get out and do something. That's crossing a line!

Jim L Jim L
Jan '20

https://www.warrencountyvotes.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Petitions-for-Munic-Office-revised-2018.pdf

Good News SD, petitions need to be in by 4pm on March 20th to get on the ballot. We still have time to convince him to run!!! just make sure the names are all registered voters, trust me on that one :)

Jim L Jim L
Jan '20

It's one thing to correct someone Jim, it's another to drop to their level, then your just making yourself look bad.

Darrin Darrin
Jan '20

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