Traffic light at Rte 57 & Mtn Ave
Had anyone else noticed the wait at the light? Did the they change it? Who would have to be contacted to correct it?
LV Girl 4 Life I believe you would have to contact NJ Division of Transportation. Have not personally noticed any difference in delay time at that light.
joyful I've noticed the wait, as well as the lack of the turn arrow. I think it's due to the light facing the old golden skillet always turning green even when there are no cars there.
Andrew Never understood the need for that arrow there. Doesn't the light on the bagel shop side turn green while the others are red? And the same for the 57 side? Dont see when an arrow for turning would be necessary. But anyway I've definitely noticed the traffic has increased at that intersection. Dont think the timing has changed, seems like more cars in the area might the issue. The one day around lunch time it was backed up to just passed the shell station. Sat there for 3 mins without moving at all. But then other times there's no one around.
Thecatsmeow Voice your concerns to the NJ Department of Transportation: https://www.state.nj.us/transportation/contact/
YeahRight Better yet: report stuff here (for any NJ DOT maintained road).
https://www.state.nj.us/transportation/commuter/potholeform.shtm
Based on personal experience, submitting issues on this site does actually work...and yes there are options to chose for issues other than potholes, including traffic lights.
Route 46I thought maybe I was just getting very unlucky the times I've been there, but I have definitely noticed the wait time on 57 going towards Mountain Ave taking much longer, in the past week.
Rich Total choke point - the state should buy part of the Golf Course and put a bypass going up 46 Mountain - 80 percent of the traffic on Mountain Ave during rush hour is going up the mountain to Mt. Olive etc.
You have people coming down Schooley's Mt on 517 to get on Mountain Ave to go up 46 and you have 57 traffic going on Mountain Ave to get up 46 Mountain just put a bypass in that hugs the river and Mountain Ave would be a breeze
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ru It is the time of year , people are coming to the farms, looking for places to eat ( the Riverside was packed yesterday ...local business being supported , a good thing .
steven ru, that by-pass has been discussed periodically for the past 30 years. I forget what the studies showed the last time it was looked at.
Music gal https://www.lehighvalleylive.com/warren-county/express-times/index.ssf/2009/02/letter_bypass_between_routes_5.html
State has shut they bypass project down numerous times. Then Washington Twp shot it down too. With the new developments going on I would say the dream of the bypass is dead
Jim L "Never understood the need for that arrow there. Doesn't the light on the bagel shop side turn green while the others are red? And the same for the 57 side? Dont see when an arrow for turning would be necessary."
It's to alert the driver with the arrow that the opposing traffic has a red light and he is free to proceed... rather than sitting there waiting for the opposing car to come through the intersection before making his left turn. (Just like every other green arrow I can think of)
ianimal Actually, the bypass has been discussed for about the past 50 yrs. It was a front page item in the Hackettstown Gazette in 1972.
tmb123 While you are sitting at the light on 57 just think about how grateful you should be just to be alive and living in America, and smile. This will relieve the stress and tension.
Dodgebaal Ianimal, most green arrows (like the one at rt 46 east ave section) are so that people turning get a chance to go before the other side turns green as well. The light by the bagel place is never green at the same time as the other side. Even if someone doesn't know that, who really needs an arrow to tell them to go? If its green and the car on the other side doesn't move for a few seconds I'm taking that as my queue to go ahead and make the turn.
Noticed the timing of the light too, as well as the number of speeding cars racing through Kenwood (Herbert, Lawrence, and Lori).
If DOT gets enough complaints, they may act on it sooner than later: (website address below): someone posted:
Better yet: report stuff here (for any NJ DOT maintained road).
https://www.state.nj.us/transportation/commuter/potholeform.shtm
Based on personal experience, submitting issues on this site does actually work...and yes there are options to chose for issues other than potholes, including traffic lights.
Hackresident Just wondering: was WAWA required to do a traffic study? If yes, what did it conclude?
OnTheEdge A DOT component is part of every application process such as this construction.
It's NJ. The study discovered yet again this place is nuts with traffic. LOL.
Mountain Ave has been designated as a congested commuter corridor by the NJ DOT. There are several planned "improvements" in the works for the area.
Greg OnTheEdge, yes WaWa conducted a traffic study. They looked at 2 things: 1) how will WaWa effect the current traffic flow on Mountain and 2) How much new traffic will it add to the area.
With the no left turn out of WaWa, and the widening of Mountain at the entrance it concluded that it won't have much impact on the current traffic flow. Also since most commuters get coffee and gas on their way to and from work there won't be too much additional traffic on Mountain. Cars that take a different route to go to work won't now go out of their way to get gas/coffee at WaWa and then turn around. It's not considered a "Destination" business.
The only thing the DOT asked the town was to pass an ordinance prohibiting left turns out of WaWa. We already designed the exits to make that prohibited but they wanted it memorialized in an ordinance so we did.
trick No left turns now that's funny. Look at how many left turns there are by McDonald's even though the signs posted.
CJ. CJ, I'm guessing there will be physical impediments in the way of concrete curb channelization installed in addition to prohibitive signage to "prevent" left turns at the exit.
Remove traffic lights and replace with roundabouts. Much safer, increased traffic flow. Of course this requires cooperation vs authority which is hard for some Americans to handle but all of the studies show both safety and efficiency increases.
https://www.wsdot.wa.gov/Safety/roundabouts/benefits.htm
They did that at the Quick Chek on 517 yet people still try to turn in there and also make left hand turns there too. (The entrance on the right)
They should put a Jersey barrier down the center of Mountain Ave. Allow for a u turn at the Lowes light for those that live in the apartments.
So if people are supposed to go to WaWA on their way to work, the no left turn wont really work.
Most traffic in the am is going toward Schooley's Mountain with the Wawa on the left. So they would have to turn left through traffic to get in (hopefully there is a turning lane being added on Mountain) and then make a left to leave (which is illegal now). Guess it will be an afternoon only stop.
Without it being convenient to the majority of the traffic flow, you are correct that it will not be a destination business. If no one stops, then no traffic impact. Will then go back to being an open lot, hence the no impact to traffic. Lol
Animal lover always
I believe that there is enough people out there that are Wawa supporters that will go out of their way just to get a coffee or whatever they want. Given that there's three Quick Cheks within a few miles of each other and this one Wawa, I don't think it will be a problem. I don't believe it will go back to being a vacant lot.
There's a Quick Chek in Fairfield right by the Target that is not easy to get into nor to find a parking spot in the morning. But yet that place is swamped.
Quick Chek is the home of the coffee and cigarette crowd. Add a 3 cent savings on gas and boom the place is swamped.
Don “No left turns now that's funny. Look at how many left turns there are by McDonald's even though the signs posted.”
CJ there is no sign at McDonald’s that says no left turn.
“So they would have to turn left through traffic to get in (hopefully there is a turning lane being added on Mountain) and then make a left to leave (which is illegal now). “
No there will be no turning lane on mountain ave. As for turning left to exit WaWa, customers will have to go to the back of WaWa pass the Applebee’s to get to the light to make a left back onto Mountain Ave. they can also use the traffic light to get into WaWa as well
Animal_Lover_Always
I don't think you realize how much traffic is coming from Rt. 57 that makes a left turn onto Mountain Avenue to proceed to points North and East that would want to pull right into the Wawa on their way to work. I travel Mt. Ave. then onto Rt. 57W on the way to work all the time and there is often a very long line backed up on Rt. 57 to make the left turn onto Mountain Ave. Of course that's around 6-6:30 am or so.
Personally I think QuickChek was short sighted in not taking over the old Lukoil property and developing that, rather than pushing that monstrosity in a more congested area which is harder to enter and exit. The old Lukoil property may not have been as large, but the mall behind may have been willing to transfer (read sell) some property to enlarge that section for parking, as it's a non-competing business. That would have made it cover those people who are travelling in an Easterly direction that the Wawa will now easily grab.
Perhaps Jim L. knows what became of the QC attempt to develop the corner across from the Target entrance. That project idea probably got shut down due to the DEP.
Phil D. CJ
"No left turns now that's funny. Look at how many left turns there are by McDonald's even though the signs posted."
There is no such sign at McDonald's saying that. If anything, McDonald's has left and right arrows down on the ground when exiting their parking lot.
Oh I assume you were talking about McDonald’s. You’re talking about people making a left into Rite Aid?
More traffic: the expansion of Heath Village, named Heath Village West, on Schooleys Mountain Road. Construction has begun.
Have they ever looked into widening Mountain Ave so that both lanes from Rte 57 could make a left onto Mountain Ave? I think it would help the traffic flow there and it would only affect a few businesses.
MTSO Jim, for the amount of accidents we've been to on Mountain Avenue with the fire department that should tell you that maybe there should no left hand turns of any of those establishments down there.
Well I hope the lights get adjusted in every direction. Especially if that many more people are going into any out of the light by Lowe's.
Bug3
"They have been REMOVING traffic circles for years"
And "they" have been wrong all along. Only the dumbest of dumb cannot navigate one of these. No T-bone accidents, no waiting at empty traffic lights-no lights required at all. No running red lights (no ticket revenue, sorry Mr Officer), constant flow with no delays. They were removing them for years, they are now making a strong comeback. If there are any problems with these at all it's the arrogance and assertiveness of the American mentality- NJ being particularly pushy, but will still work well. They do require a bit of cooperation and courtesy to work best. Can the NJ American driver do this?
Or sit and suffer waiting for green and red Christmas lights to tell you what to do when a bit of common sense will keep you moving....
https://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/19/us/19roundabouts.html
https://www.phillymag.com/citified/2015/02/04/traffic-circles-roundabouts-making-a-comeback/
https://www.nbcdfw.com/traffic/stories/Traffic-Circles-Coming-Full-Circle-131186298.html
+1 Dodge. You have to be the stupidest driver on the planet not to be able to maneuver a circle. But there again, most people on the road today are the stupidest drivers on the planet.
auntiel Have fun people.
There is also a plan to have a large condo complex built behind the WaWa that may hold about 2 - 4 thousand residents. This would also serve to block any type of bypass that would go straight to rte 46.
Now, let's pair that up with the larger condominium complex that is planned for Beattystown on the Washington Twp side of the river. Maybe another 5-6 thousand residents.
Don't forget the well thought out new Quick Chek planned for Mt Avenue, Bells Lane, Water Street crossing. Gonna need a new light there as well.
It's gonna get uglier. The current street design in Hackettstown was built as the town grew from a few thousand up to about 4,000 total residents. The entire area that is now Kenwood, below East Avenue and along Rt 57 in Beattystown were farms. Prior to 1945 along High St... above the RR crossing... were farms.
There are plans to expand living space along Old Bilby Road also.
All this new development is going to gridlock Hackettstown.
It's gonna be an absolute nightmare of a mess.
fire251 Sorry but 144 apartments is not going to bring in 4000 new residents to town. Most of the apartments are 2 bedrooms. We are looking at 500-600 at most.
And our town population has decreased in the last decade so we have experience higher population than we have now.
As for traffic circles, they were out of vogue and being removed for a long time, but that trend was reversed about a decade ago. Now they call them "roundabouts" and they're being designed and built in various places around the state.
I think your math is a bit off, fire251. As Jim noted the numbers are significantly less. You have doubled the entire population of Hackettstown with two developments. I would think someone may have noticed if that were the case. LOL.
The newly completed Flemington circle if you will is quite fun to navigate. People seem to be at a loss on what to do. I travel that way often and am amazed to see folks befuddled on how to efficiently and safely move along.
Greg, can you imagine how much fun it would be if they installed one at the 5 Points intersection in Hackettstown? I'd bring a six-pack and a lawn chair and just hang out there on weekends, lol.
This "population decrease" sure seems to have increased the number of cars on the local roads. I wonder how that happened? No way was traffic this bad 20 years ago in this area.
JYM "People seem to be at a loss on what to do. I travel that way often and am amazed to see folks befuddled on how to efficiently and safely move along."
Just another reason why older drivers need to be retested...
There has been population growth all around Hackettstown, and Rt. 57 shopping attracts many from nearby communities. All kinds of commuters pass through the area also.
Quote:
"This "population decrease" sure seems to have increased the number of cars on the local roads. I wonder how that happened? No way was traffic this bad 20 years ago in this area."
OnTheEdge, I know that. JimL claims that Hackettstown has had a population decrease. Maybe within the center of town itself but no way within the zip codes and the surrounding areas as you mentioned. This was something I mentioned on another thread. The continued building of developments is too much for the local roads to hold.
The population of Hackettstown has decreased since 2010. We are now at the same population we were in the 1970s. Around 9500. We saw a decline in the 80s and 90s and the a bump in the 2000s. We peaked in 2010 and have seen a decline since.
Jim L, does that account for all the zip coded areas like Mansfield and parts of Washington Township, Independence, etc.? I didn't live here in the 1970's. I've been here 20 years and development has taken place all over nearby increasing traffic over the last twenty years. No way can this just be imagined or different light patterns.
Lots of traffic. But in the 1970s not many parents got their teens cars. And Centenary was all females, nearly all boarded there. There were mostly stay at home moms.
Population numbers were the same, but lifestyle changes did impact traffic volume.
Older Mom It makes sense to cluster development where services such as sewers and water already exist..
You can find the population of towns by looking on Wikipedia for each municipality under demographics. These are for Mansfield Township and Washington Township (Morris). I only went as far back as 1950.
Mansfield:
1950 1,497 19.4%
1960 2,130 42.3%
1970 3,546 66.5%
1980 5,780 63.0%
1990 7,154 23.8%
2000 6,653 −7.0%
2010 7,725 16.1
Washington Township (Morris)
1950 2,147 14.8%
1960 3,330 55.1%
1970 6,962 109.1%
1980 11,402 63.8%
1990 15,592 36.7%
2000 17,592 12.8%
2010 18,533 5.3%
Traffic circles were always called “ roundabouts” in England and Ireland so that is not a “new” word or concept& they are very efficient.
As someone who lives on the corner of rt.57, I look out my window every day and see the cars stretched for a good mile back waiting for that light. So in the last 6 months or so, either the amount of people traveling rt.57 east has grown exponentially or the timing of the light is definitely off!! Maybe itge batteries are dying .... lol
H-town Mama I noticed it when hackettstown had is Octoberfest and chalked it up to that, then just thought it was weekend apple/pumpkin pickers. I don't know how the mountain Ave light can get backed up to the home Depot light on a week day non rush hour though. Seen it happen a few times, and ya have voiced my concerns before anyone else suggests that.
A bit before this if you were exiting onto 57 from the light at home Depot it randomly took forever, that took a while to fix, so keep on respectfully placing your concerns and hopefully they will fix it
Yesimpc The last Hackettstown population decrease was just the census correctly putting residents back in Mansfield
Someone should time the light. Then call NJ Division of Transportation and ask for the engineer who can help with that specific traffic light. It could have been reset incorrectly. Or maybe instead of fixing a problem, they created a worse one.
maja2 bug3.
Perception is different from empirical evidence-so your memory of "efficient" may not be backed up with scientific data.
If one cannot navigate a circle, one should not have a driver's license.
Of course red and green are simpler for the folks that require simpler. This is until they ignore red- and plow into your car door, the lethal area, at 40mph. Either way they got ya.....
htownguy There may have been an actual population decrease within the borders of Hackettstown........ but what about the expansion of housing, condos and apartments that were all conveniently placed just outside the town borders ?
We still have a population of 9,500 within our borders traveling on streets designed when it was a small town center for the surrounding farms. Our streets were drawn up and traveled when this town alone had a population of 2 - 4,000.
Now.... if possible... take a look at growth just outside of the town borders. Look at the traffic gridlock prior to any further housing is added to what's already there.
The immediate local population numbers that businesses can look at include Hackettstown, Independence, Mansfield, Washington Twp and Allamuchy. The grand total numbers were around 25,000 about 10 years ago........ and it's growing.
Even Mansfield Village and Alexandria Apartments along with the condo apartments in between do not have connecting roads although they abut each other. Why? They don't want to add to additional cut thru traffic. Mansfield Apartments? One way in and one way out..... designed when it originally had about 8 buildings.
We have a problem.
They built heavily on the borders of Hackettstown because of water access. HMUA supplies the water for all the eyesore housing, traffic congestion, and pollution. Hackettstown new exactly what they were doing in 1965 (maybe not). The developers saw $$ and as they say "that's progress". Or my favorite line " if you build it, they will come".
You got a point on that one Auntiel. Do you have a service map? Might help to determine next water-based high density developments.
Also, any know what percentage capacity HMUA runs at? As in how many cluster developments can they add before they have to add more plant beyond pipe.....
strangerdanger Thirty or so years ago, developers would come before the Planning Boards for their approvals, and they would have their "experts" come in, traffic experts, or how-many-additional-kids experts, and it was always "only 30-50 cars, or 25 kids", blah, blah blah, and the Planning Board had to consider each application solely, couldn't take into consideration any of the other applications pending and how, when you added them together, you could see that all these cars and extra kids added together were going to place added burdens on our roads, our schools, our fire, ambulance and police departments, etc. Anyone with any sense could see what was happening in all the townships surrounding Hackettstown, but there was virtually nothing anyone could do to stop it. Because if the Planning Board turned down their application, well, they would just sue the township and it ended up costing add'l money for the town to defend itself, and the developer would win anyway, and there you have it.
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