Better get used to more bear encounters

Our idiot governor, despite the advice of state biologists, has ceased the bear hunt on NJ Owned and managed property. The biologists reported to his office that other forms of population control were both ineffective and cost prohibitive.

As Hackettstown is surrounded by state land and NJ black bear sow often have litters of 4 - 5 cubs.....we will have an exploded population within a couple of years.

Better keep an eye on your children and pets.


Eh- don't mess with them and they won't hurt you.

Tip over your garbage cans? Maybe.

But- as I told my wife...well, a step back to explain-

About a year ago I was sitting at my desk and I saw a black bear in my back yard.

I took a picture and texted my wife- he called me up and frantically said "who are you going to call- what are you going to do about it?"

To which I responded? Why would I do anything? He is just walking through, bear don't know property lines.

I asked her- you want me to call someone, so they can trap or shoot him- because we decided to knock down the trees and build houses and roads?

She mulled this over for a few seconds and responded that I was right and she never looked at it that way.

So yea- if a bear breaks in your front door and eats you, chases you unprovoked *and eats you*...then complain. Other than that- leave em alone. And that goes for any animal you aren't planning on eating in the next few days. Knock it off!!


Easy to say when your inside....not so easy when your wife is walking the dog and the bear is acting a little aggressive....this happened last year.

As the population grows so will encounters and the competition for food will increase aggressiveness.

Even though hunt only killed a few hundred a year, thats 2000 fewer that would have been born.h


It's not just about bears messing with people, it's about maintaining the population at a level that fosters *healthy* bears. But hey, if the governor wants to have twice as many bears that have half as much food each then what do the biologists know...

Mark Mc. Mark Mc.
Aug '18

+1 Josh

4catmom 4catmom
Aug '18

Josh, Many Animal populations need management, Bears are one of them. There are more bear in our state now than there were 30 years ago. Nj doesn’t consider a nuisance bear an actual nuisance bear until they break into the living quarters of your home. My friend had a bear rip siding off her home and break into her attached garage, no assistance from the state at because her garage is not considered “living quarters”. So, a bear wandering through your yard might seem cute, they are not cute when they continuously rip down your fence, destroy your vegetable garden, break into your chicken coop and kill your chickens, etc... Black bear are not a threatened species and the more bear that breed in neighborhoods are going to increase the number of human and bear encounters. A mother bear with cubs living in someone’s back yard is a dangerous situation, it is not a safe option. I can’t imagine that anyone wants to stay out of their yard Spring- Fall because a bear family is living there.

Jesse132 Jesse132
Aug '18

Please bring this when you walk your dog-
https://www.amazon.com/Vigilant-130dB-Personal-Alarm-Activated/dp/B008QXXN5W/ref=pd_lpo_vtph_421_tr_t_2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=YQBG3HT6DXY5ZK86P3F8

or this
https://www.amazon.com/FRONTIERSMAN-Bear-Spray-Maximum-Strength/dp/B002BMOJXE/ref=asc_df_B002BMOJXE/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=216518324822&hvpos=1o3&hvnetw=g&hvrand=3191846023399621289&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1022052&hvtargid=pla-349078329096&psc=1


Living there? I may be uninformed- but I've never heard of a bear family setting up long term camp in someones yard (yard meaning yard, as in cleared and mowed- not someone that has wooded acres).

And I am mildly amused at the bear ate 'my' chickens- because the chickens didn't ask to be contained and owned any more than the bear understands to be detoured around 'your' yard.

*If* I chose to 'own' chickens and one flew away or escaped- I wouldn't be mad at it, same if a fox or bear decided to eat it. Why are we allowed to eat a chicken, eggs, fish, deer, etc- because we say so?

I'm not saying not to kill and eat animals- but don't get mad at the animals for wanting to eat as well. Pretty silly if you ask me.

Tim- the bear wasn't being aggressive to your wife and dog any more than your wife and dog were a perceived threat to the bear.

Again- just because we decide to be here everything else in nature must perish and get out of our way? Hasn't anyone seen Avatar?

Funny thing is- I am not a tree hugger, nature lover, vegetarian, etc- but the older I get, I suppose the more I look at the big pictures and realize the foibles of man's thinking. We truly will destroy ourselves and unfortunately do great harm to everything around us in the process.


In a few years there will be more bear encounters because there'll be more bears? And in a few years humans will have cut down more of their natural habitat and built homes, parking lots or another useless strip mall. And the bears will have even less natural habitat. Human development is taking every square inch of land and making their own, leaving little natural space for wildlife. So maybe there will be more human to bear encounters. Not necessarily because there are more bears, but because they are being squeezed into ever smaller areas thanks to human development of their natural habitat. It's not the bear population that need management. It's the human population.


Our governor does not care about the working country folks....loves his projects.... Loves his potheads.... Maybe the bears can eat them....

Older Mom Older Mom
Aug '18

Josh, it happened to my friend’s sister. She lived in a neighborhood and a mother bear and her cubs showed up everyday. Kids couldn’t play in their yards because of the bears. It makes for a dangerous situation.

It’s not fun when bears cause repeated property damage especially when it isn’t covered by home owners. And go ahead and laugh about a bear killing chickens but many people consider chickens their pets, it’s not funny, not at all. Having your entire flock and coop destroyed can be heart breaking and its a huge financial loss. So, enjoy your mild amusement at the expense of someone’s pets.

+ 10000 Mark Mc

Jesse132 Jesse132
Aug '18

Working country folks? 6% of NJ's population is rural according to the 2010 census.

Working rural, that's probably, what, 2/3rds of that? And that's being generous, discounting the retired and children and whatnot. So 4% of NJ? Color me shocked that politics of a heavily urban, industrialized state doesn't cater to 4% of the population.

kingcoriander kingcoriander
Aug '18

Is it time for .... "Goldilocks and The Three Bears?"

Once Upon a Time..... there were Three Bears living in Hackettstown...
The Papa Bear; The Mama Bear, and the Teenie Weenie Baby Bear.....
Hooooo, Hummmm....Yawn! .....

I'm getting tired, and ready for bed already. I'm ready to cuddle up with my teddy bear, and go nite nite ! .....
Got my handheld device....with a load of blank's . Bears do not like the Pop Pop sound of harmless Blanks. And, they avoid the smell of the propellent.

Embryodad Embryodad
Aug '18

How many of you citing biologists believes in climate change?

4of4
Aug '18

Forgive him LORD, for he ( gov. moron ) does not know what he has done..

frank 1945 frank 1945
Aug '18

What do the state biologists know?? Bears vs. Vehicle = higher insurance..Bears destroying crops = higher food prices! Bears keeping people from enjoying their time outdoors = fatter crankier people.. Personally I didn’t expect anything less from this guy... The sad part is it’s only gonna get worse...

mr. Tone mr. Tone
Aug '18

I'm always torn on this issue. I'm not a hunter, and I don't like seeing animals killed for sport (killed for food is ok). But being a dog owner in a "bear popular" neighborhood (we have many sighting in Diamond Hill, and some were at 2:30 in the afternoon), I am concerned. I'm not holding it against Murphy, he doesn't ACTUALLY give a rats ass one way or the other, he is not a noble creature, he's just toeing the leftist party line.

But if the bear population isn't going to be controlled, the state should not have the right to remove MY right of self-defense from me and my family (which includes my dog). How long until the above mentioned bear spray is banned in NJ? They already won't let us carry firearms for self-protection, I figure ANY self-protection is frowned on.

Well, law or no, neither me nor my dog will not end up in a bear fight, no matter what I have to do. Screw the state. I don't want to hurt or kill a bear, but if it's him or me, it's gonna' be him.

Of course, that's only when *I* walk the dog, I can't expect my wife (or my friends/extended family members) to do the same when they walk to dog (dog sit).

JeffersonRepub JeffersonRepub
Aug '18

"There are more bear in our state now than there were 30 years ago" +1 Jesse

I will double that, there are more bears now than there were 60 years ago due to proper wildlife management from the state game division, one of the few areas of government that actually works well, they know what they are doing in this arena and ignoring their recommendations will come with a heavy cost.

There was a young man eaten by black bears in Nj just a couple of years ago,

GreyHawk GreyHawk
Aug '18

To all those lamenting about human population, housing area, etc... are you willing to volunteer to “de-populate” yourself and tear down your house to return it to nature? Or, is it just a hypocritical jab that everyone *else* is the problem?

Sure, there’s less area for bears and other wildlife to live. That’s a fact, and it’s why the populations need to be managed with responsible hunting programs to make sure that they stay in balance with other species, food supplies, etc. Just going hands-off and hoping for the best because they are cute isn’t the answer.

Mark Mc. Mark Mc.
Aug '18

Just an excuse for gun owners to murder something. Just sayin...


"Just an excuse for gun owners to murder something. Just sayin..."


Just another asinine comment. Just sayin...

JeffersonRepub JeffersonRepub
Aug '18

“How long until the above mentioned bear spray is banned in NJ?”

It already is. NJ limits pepper spray to 3/4 oz of fluid or less. Those cans linked above contain 7-9 oz of fluid, and thus are illegal.

Mark Mc. Mark Mc.
Aug '18

You live in bear country. Period, the end. There are lots of ways to keep fido, & property safe. Use that device in your hand , to do some research.

Oldschool Oldschool
Aug '18

Bears destroying crops = higher food prices! Bears keeping people from enjoying their time outdoors = fatter crankier people.. Or. Bears destroy crops=higher food prices= slimmer happier people..

Dodgebaal Dodgebaal
Aug '18

Teach the bears to eat the deer...

Dodgebaal Dodgebaal
Aug '18

"To all those lamenting about human population, housing area, etc... are you willing to volunteer to “de-populate” yourself and tear down your house to return it to nature? Or, is it just a hypocritical jab that everyone *else* is the problem?"

We could just allow the bears to decide who they would like to "de-populate."

Dodgebaal Dodgebaal
Aug '18

"You live in bear country. Period, the end. There are lots of ways to keep fido, & property safe. Use that device in your hand , to do some research."


I have. I'm a backpacker so I'm well familiar. I also know if a black bear decides to attack, you better fight for your life, because it IS trying to kill you. These aren't grizzlies- playing dead doesn't work with black bears.

JeffersonRepub JeffersonRepub
Aug '18

Just another gun owner that feels manly when armed.


The bears were here first right? No easy answers, "harvesting" is the classic approach. Population control via injections is the new idea, yet to be done widespread and likely more expensive. Where are our priorities on this, do the masses even care?


"Just another gun owner that feels manly when armed."


Nah, no arms required to feel manly. But you don't bring a knife to a bear fight, unless you're an asinine idiot.

JeffersonRepub JeffersonRepub
Aug '18

I always find it humorous when someone says "you/we live in the country out there in Warren (or Sussex) county. I call it exurbia.

When I lived in the country, in farmland, bears and deer somehow were kept in much better control. We called it hunting and I used to start by walking out the back door with my trusty shotgun for bird. Others, rifles and bowmen, would constantly park at my house and walk out as well. While the animals were around, seemed to be much better in check and much more timid of humans.

We didn't need the eight foot fences you find in Long Valley now. We didn't totally fear driving in the dusk or dark.

I went 40 years in the wild and never saw a bear. In 30 years in NJ, I have a dozen close encounters, a couple where I just prayed the bear would keep going or turn away because I was boxed in.

No, I don't agree with Mr. Murphy on this one and honestly believe that bear should rarely be seen in NJ, much less endured. Sorry bear lovers.

And don't get me started on the deer, but doe hunt is a good start in my mind.

strangerdanger strangerdanger
Aug '18

"Population control via injections is the new idea, yet to be done widespread and likely more expensive."

More expensive and less effective, per the NJ Division of Fish and Wildlife. In other words, *perfect* for new government solutions.

(Whereas hunting brings money *in* to the state coffers and actually works.)

Mark Mc. Mark Mc.
Aug '18

He only removed where he has the authority to remove.... the order still allows hunting on county parkland, water company land, private land, land owned by non-profits and municipal land. My guess is there will be a thining of the herd just not to the numbers of the last few years.

CraftBeerBob CraftBeerBob
Aug '18

Joe and Mark are camping when a bear suddenly comes out and growls. Joe starts putting on his tennis shoes.
Mark says, “What are you doing? You can’t outrun a bear!”
Joe says, “I don’t have to outrun the bear—I just have to outrun you!”

Dodgebaal Dodgebaal
Aug '18

To all the people opposed to the bear hunt.... more bear means less food and space for each bear. This makes for hungry more aggressive bears. Now you have more bears eating garbage, more bear approaching hikers, more bear destroying property, etc... all in an attempt to find food. A hungry, angry bear is not something I want to come in contact with. But, if you all want to think it’s cute, go ahead.

Jesse132 Jesse132
Aug '18

I try to have bare encounters as much as possible


keeping it going...…

What, no beer hunt?

strangerdanger strangerdanger
Aug '18

I don't want to have to hunt for beer. I get cranky if it's not right where I left it.

Calico696 Calico696
Aug '18

I dunno, the beer's in Hackettstown have been getting more craft-y every year. Some hibernate a bit during the winter, opening their dens wide during the Spring to Fall. Others only come out towards the weekends. Very craft-y, these new beers.

strangerdanger strangerdanger
Aug '18

Another Murphy gem... such a moron... In other news California banned soda from kids meals to go along with their straw ban. This is what you get with liberalism...

Metsman Metsman
Aug '18

Yeah, you’re right Metsman.
The approaching 70% childhood obesity population needs that extra 12-15 spoonfuls of sugar at lunch.
Let’s pump ‘em full of sugar and roll ‘em back to class.
While we’re at it, why don’t we reduce health care coverage for the?
Oops, already done that.

Stymie Stymie
Aug '18

Stymie government has no right to tell anyone what they can drink. Responsible parents don't give their kids a bunch of soda anyway. If people want to go to a restaurant and have a coke that is their right. I rarely buy soda, but occasionally I do. No one is going to die by drinking it in moderation.

Metsman Metsman
Aug '18

Metsman spreading the sensationalized Fox News headline instead of the truth. Which is just that kid's meals have to default to a healthier alternative instead of the default being soda. They can still get the soda if they want it. Considering your generation has been unable to promote a healthy lifestyle for their children this seems like the a step in the right direction.

How was that even related to the bear hunt? You just look for ways to change entire topics into what you want to talk about.

Reasonable Reasonable
Aug '18

Josh, I see your point, I really do. They were here first. And I've had a mink kill all of my chickens because I forgot to close the door at night. My fault.

My husband is an outdoorsman so he is my source for this.. but it seems that bear sows will only have litters of 4-5 cubs when times are really good. And NJ is one of the only states where this is happening right now. Plentiful food and no natural predators here to control the bear population, except humans.

The population will explode as these litters of cubs have cubs and so on. I guess we'll see what happens.

hktownie hktownie
Aug '18

The obesity rate in children indicates that they are not consuming anything in moderation.
Err, exercise maybe.
Early onset diabetes is exploding geometrically.
But let’s stick with your approach.
Look up the definition of insanity why don’t ya?

Stymie Stymie
Aug '18

The bears were here first end of story

Buzz23
Aug '18

Stymie my son is a college athlete. He's in great shape. He drinks soda at times and did throughout childhood. Try again... sitting in front of a TV and playing video games for hours on end is the problem. Lack of exercise is the problem.
Reasonable I brought it up as an aside because the bear hunt ban Murphy put in place and crap like telling people their kids can't get a soda with a kids meal is ridiculous and shows how this country is moving toward socialism. You should change your name because you're far from reasonable...

Metsman Metsman
Aug '18

If I want sensationalized headlines I'll turn on CNN or MSNBC...

Metsman Metsman
Aug '18

Are you going to go into your rant again about your son being on, I don’t know, the east armpit or penciltucky hall of fame?
Please say it ain’t so
Please

Stymie Stymie
Aug '18

AJMS thanks for the links but that bear spray cannot be delivered to the People's Republic of New Jersey. I run the trails at either Stephens, Allamuchy or Deer Park 5-6 days a week and I carry Halt dog repellent for the bears. I’d much rather have bear spray but it seems to be illegal here. As to why that is, I couldn’t say.

We are also the only state in the union that considers an air rifle (BB gun) a firearm. Not that I would ever carry one for bears or while running, I’m just using that as an example of how out of control our laws are. I need to get fingerprinted and have a background check to buy a red rider. Guess they are afraid I’ll shoot my eye out?

Consigliere
Aug '18

They don't trust us to pump our own gas let alone use a red rider...

Metsman Metsman
Aug '18

" In other news California banned soda from kids meals to go along with their straw ban" Banned is a bit harsh; they are just not allowing them to be the default item in the bundle. Instead it's water or milk.

Meanwhile, there is no law prohibiting alternatives to the default bundle. Might even be cheaper to kill the milk and add a nice, you wish it was sugar, sweetened soft drink. Poor down that corn syrup.

I miss the little spoons for the coffee. Now I have to use my sterling silver snuff spoon instead. The horror of big government.

strangerdanger strangerdanger
Aug '18

Re: Better get used to more bear encounters

"You just look for ways to change entire topics into what you want to talk about."

Give us your thoughts on THIS, Metsman (-;

ianimal ianimal
Aug '18

Dom Smith will be released eventually. He's another Lastings Millege...

Metsman Metsman
Aug '18

The bears were here first and we keep taking their land. Humans are overpopulated but you don’t see us doing anything about that.

MyPointOfView
Aug '18

yeah sure so were the deer... but guess what... you don't hunt them and they end up starving in the winter and disease ridden when the population gets out of control. This isn't Yellowstone Park with an abundance of woodlands and meadows. NJ is the most densely populated state in the country. People who know nothing about wildlife management should really not say anything when they don't have facts.

Metsman Metsman
Aug '18

Mets man has taken it up a notch.
Emailing me direct with profanity laced messages.
Danger-Danger-Danger

Stymie Stymie
Aug '18

Wow, I don't get that treatment.....

strangerdanger strangerdanger
Aug '18

Stymie I don't have time for a 60 something year old man trying to be a troll with every post. I called you a "sh*t stain". There everyone knows.

Metsman Metsman
Aug '18

Re: Better get used to more bear encounters

Are you not entertained?

Metsman Metsman
Aug '18

Entertained somewhat, enlightened definitely not.


A beer hunt sounds like a great idea. We need t-shirts in time for Oktoberfest.

Agust Agust
Aug '18

Re: Better get used to more bear encounters

Personally I'm glad he did this, and I can honestly say it's the only thing I'm glad he's done so far. I've been living her 25+ years and finally saw my first wild bear about a month ago. Very exciting for this city kid. As far as the beer hunt, I'm all in!

Denis Denis
Aug '18

I say we compromise and have the Bear hunt every other year as it deems necessary. Back in the late 60s the Black Bear was non-existent in this state due to over hunting. The only bear left was one in a cage up at High Point. Have a balance of all native species is important to the health of our environment.

Walking Girl Walking Girl
Aug '18

Re: Better get used to more bear encounters

This was 2 years ago on Mt.Rascal road....out for a leisurely stroll!


" Humans are overpopulated but you don’t see us doing anything about that."


650,000+ abortions per year (that's just in the US) say different.

So, we can kill our unborn babies by the HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS, but don't kill even one bear....

JeffersonRepub JeffersonRepub
Aug '18

A moderated bear hunt is fine...but I hate when people call it "sport" or "exciting". Using donuts and molasses to bait bears, and be able to shoot Cubs, mothers with Cubs kinda takes the "sport" out of it...its about as much sport as drinking beer on the couch watching football. Just because it's done outdoors doesn't change that...I'm fine with the hunt, by it they should limit what bears are fair game.

Localchef Localchef
Aug '18

I had bear meatballs once. Good stuff.

Metsman Metsman
Aug '18

For those that claim bears were here first...so were the predators that kept their population in check.


Dam

That bear's more intelligent than many humans. Since it's a pedestrian walking along a road with no traffic it's walking on the edge of the roadway facing traffic as the law says a pedestrian should do.! Impressive!

Phil D. Phil D.
Aug '18

Denis, you really need to get off the couch more lol. One bear in 25 years??? I’ve been here for 8 years and have seen or encountered 8 bears.

I spend a lot of time on the trails and my latest encounter I found myself face to face with a large female and cubs sometime around July 4th of this year. I came running around a corner at Stephens state park and we were separated by only 20 feet. She turned tail and took off. She left it up to the cubs to follow her. I grabbed my Halt dog repellent (again, thank you NJ) and slowly backed away then walked briskly backwards, then jogged with my head turned around, then sprinted the 2.5 miles back to the parking lot.

After getting home and thanking God the bear didn’t maul me to protect her cubs I did some research and learned that is a common misconception about black bears and only grizzly bears will defend their cubs aggressively. Learning that was the only thing that got me back on the same trail the next day.

Consigliere
Aug '18

In the past month I’ve encountered a bear 2 times at the Riverfront Park....wondering if it was the same one each time.


geesh and I've been hoping to see one on my walks in the parks................
you'd think in the months before and after the past hunts - and remember they didn't happen every year - there have been no issues of any import....take a breath people

4catmom 4catmom
Aug '18

Murphy would rather have us all sit home and smoke weed instead of being outdoors enjoying our rights to hunt. 20 years ago a bear sighting was very rare in nj, now I see them on a weekly basis. The land can only support so many bears. Try and remember the great swamp and the 3-4 year old deer that weighed 75 lbs and the forest was defoliated by the starving deer. After the highly protested hunt the forest is once again healthy and the deer are healthy too. No one would care if we had a rattlesnake hunt because they are not cute and cuddly. You can't pick and choose based on your feelings when the scientific data tells you the bears have exceeded the carrying capacity of the land.

hopefully
Aug '18

The hunt should be based on scientific land management/native ecosystem health only!

kepa
Aug '18

just going to build up the car bumper and there you deer and bear hunt with out firing a single shot


Consigliere, I get off the couch plenty, but I'm not a hiker. I'd rather spend a day in the city. My hiking is limited to walking my dog at riverfront park. That bear in the picture was taking a walk down route 46. I saw him made a u turn and got out of the car and followed him ( from a distance ) until he got into the cornfield. Marlin Perkins would be proud.

Denis Denis
Aug '18

The way I figure...the bears were here first. We are the interlopers. Leave em alone and be thankful to live in such beautiful surroundings.

friendlyMcFriendly
Aug '18

The whole "they were here first" argument is tired and holds no weight. The fact is, they are animals and we are not. We have evolved and continue to evolve as we are the superior being. As being the superior being, it is the responsibility of us to keep the animals in check for many reasons as have already been stated in this thread. Something that I feel people are glossing over is that Murphy didn't ban bear hunting in its entirety which is a good thing. We can still hunt but just more limited to where. (and I am no Murphy supporter before I get labeled as such)

Joe Friday Joe Friday
Aug '18

“ The fact is, they are animals and we are not.”

Technically...that’s not true. We just happen to be the dominant animal on the planet.

justintime justintime
Aug '18

Fish and game is going to lose a lot of revenue from hunters who normally bear hunt on state land. Murphy is a buffoon.

Calico696 Calico696
Aug '18

We are not animals?
Geez.
Get over yourself Joe.
And read the newspaper to see what we do to each other and our planet.
May take you down a peg.

Stymie Stymie
Aug '18

Calico696

Bear permit is only $2.......kept low to promote the harvest needed for sustainable population.

No big revenue loss expected


Tim - You also need a hunting license. Some hunters only get a license in order to get a bear permit.

Calico696 Calico696
Aug '18

"Bear permit is only $2"

Once you have already paid the $27.50 (resident) or $135.50 (non-resident) fee for the basic hunting license, yes... the permit is an add-on. Of course, many people have the license for other kinds of hunting as well.

Now, with the hunt reduced, more DFW resources will need to be allocated to dealing with problem bears (either relocating or euthanizing them) and/or additional costs allocated to other population control measures. That all costs money (plus $2 is still better than minus anything). Although I guess the state could just fire all the biologists since they don't listen to their advice anyway...

It will also hit the $150M+ that hunting in general brings into the NJ economy (gas, food, supplies, etc. that hunters purchase).

Mark Mc. Mark Mc.
Aug '18

Blank guns aren't illegal in NJ except if someone thinks it is a real gun, then it's 18 months in prison and/or $7,500. So if somebody see's your blank gun and runs make sure you chase'em down to show them it's not a firearm.

Possum police DO NOT like civilians to have more than 3/4oz pepper spray. You'll be cuffed on the ground while they search your things.

The bears are already well over their carrying capacity. I saw a two year old (150 pounder) with five cubs on Park St at Mt. Lake this year.

Before 1970 when we shot rats at the Alphano or Hope Road town garbage dumps, we never saw a bear. Day or night.

Used to be no deer in housing developments or towns when there were 2-3 times the hunters before 1985. Now the deer don't fear people and the hunters don't want to get called out of the woods everytime some slicker see's blaze orange or some one walking in the woods with a bow or gun. Now the townie's all want the wild in town until they hit one with their car or have a yard loaded with ticks.

Fear is a great motivator, look at how the politicians and news have used it to get more of our money.

One-eyed Poacher One-eyed Poacher
Aug '18

"Blank guns aren't illegal in NJ except if someone thinks it is a real gun"

Good news and bad news...

Good news is it doesn't depend on if someone just "thinks" it's a real gun. The observer has to "reasonably believe it is possessed for an unlawful purpose".

Bad news is it isn't just blank guns. It's ANY imitation gun, even if it's a toy.

From NJ2C:39-4 item E.

"e.Imitation firearms. Any person who has in his possession an imitation firearm under circumstances that would lead an observer to reasonably believe that it is possessed for an unlawful purpose is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree. "

https://law.justia.com/codes/new-jersey/2009/title-2c/2c-39/2c-39-4/

Mark Mc. Mark Mc.
Aug '18

Just while I'm thinking of it, here's the bit about pepper spray.

From NJ 2C:39-6

"i.Nothing in N.J.S.2C:39-5 shall be construed to prevent any person who is 18 years of age or older and who has not been convicted of a felony, from possession for the purpose of personal self-defense of one pocket-sized device which contains and releases not more than three-quarters of an ounce of chemical substance not ordinarily capable of lethal use or of inflicting serious bodily injury, but rather, is intended to produce temporary physical discomfort or disability through being vaporized or otherwise dispensed in the air. Any person in possession of any device in violation of this subsection shall be deemed and adjudged to be a disorderly person, and upon conviction thereof, shall be punished by a fine of not less than $100.00."

https://law.justia.com/codes/new-jersey/2009/title-2c/section-2c-39/2c-39-6/

Basically here's how NJ weapons laws work. *EVERYTHING* is illegal (Section 39-5), with the following exceptions (Section 39-6). In this case, they are exempting 18+ adults to carry pocket sized pepper sprays (which bear spray is not, obviously due to the size of the can).

Mark Mc. Mark Mc.
Aug '18

One-Eyed Poacher, back the the area wasn't developed anywhere near how it is today so the animal's has space of their own. Now, with less natural space they tend to migrate into neighborhoods. Also, with more human population the good source, garbage generated, attracts them. Either way you look at it the situation, like many, is human caused. So what do we do? We take the easy way out and just say kill them. I'm not against hunting. I just renewed my hunting license, $27.50 and pheasant/ quail stamp, $40.00. However hunting for the purpose of food, not just for trophies.


I have an idea for everyone who says humans are to blame and the animals were here first.

Burn your house down and kill yourself. Now you’re doing your part instead of just talking.

Oh, and have a nice day :)

Consigliere
Aug '18

Consigliere, cutting right to the heart of the matter!! Love it!!!

JeffersonRepub JeffersonRepub
Aug '18

Now NJ is truly a sanctuary state.

Biologists want 900 harvested and hunting never achieved that mark, but it was still some level of cost effective control.

Now bears have as many rights in Nj as illegal aliens.


JeffersonRepublic, as with Conigliere, monkey see monkey do. Great job!


Are we evolved? I don’t know if that’s true. Look at our unhinged President and dismantling of clean air regs.

The argument that animals were here first is not tired. It’s just true.


There is no reason to kill innocent animals just because we want their territory.

Friendly McFriend Friendly McFriend
Aug '18

I wonder how many bears the Native Americans massacred for food, clothing, and warmth. How many buffalo were massacred by the Native Americans for food, clothing and warmth. Nope we haven't evolved.

auntiel auntiel
Aug '18

Yes, we could all learn a lot from Native Americans. They had the upmost respect for nature and animals. They utilized and blessed everything that sustained them.

positive positive
Aug '18

The difference is that the "natives" used virtually every piece of their kills. This is respect, not hunting for "sport". When I was young I was surrounded by real hunters who respected prey -- this has been lost for the most part. I am currently against hunting but not firearms. Of course if an apocalypse occurred and I needed to feed my family and myself I could make an exception. Not sure I would want to live through an apocalypse though...

Auntiel, you are talking about the "White Man" that steamrolled over this country at the expense of the natives. Native Indians lived in harmony with nature, the "White Man" for the most part did not.


Never thought this would happen, but I totally agree iJay.

positive positive
Aug '18

+1000 iJay

Walking Girl Walking Girl
August 23rd

Re: Better get used to more bear encounters

This big guy was creating havoc on my deck. This was one of many encounters in our yard. We keep are garbage secure in the garage with the garage door closed and bring our bird feeders in at night. They are beautiful creatures but as the owner of a small dog I am very nervous taking her out at night! They are still wild animals and unpredictable. We live in a development in Independence Township not in the middle of the woods. The ban on the bear hunt is very disconcerting to me. The Governor needs a few poking around on his property.


Clearly you didn’t bring in all the bird feeders.

Walking Girl Walking Girl
August 23rd

Well thank you for pointing that out. I sure do now!


AnneE you have to watch put for the foxes if you have a little dog. In Western NJ you can't leave smaller dogs to go out an pee on their own.


Foxes will very, VERY rarely attack dogs; foxes simply don't see them as prey. Small dogs are actually at far greater risk to raptors, in the middle of the day, then they are to foxes at night.

JerseyWolf JerseyWolf
August 23rd

My cat chases off the fox and she is only 11 pounds. It will steal our chickens when she is not around. No more free ranging our birds until our puppy is old enough to protect them.

Jesse132 Jesse132
August 24th

Wait till a bear eats someone in their back yard... A few years ago a guy was killed and partially eaten by a bear in West Milford...


Then the person eaten will be blamed for being in their backyard just the the woman who was blamed for being chased by a bear in the park.

Jesse132 Jesse132
August 24th

I've also seen 2 bear dead on the side of the road in the past 2 years. Never have I seen a bear roadkill before that.


And a bear just recently broke into someone’s home in West milford.

Jesse132 Jesse132
August 24th

"And a bear just recently broke into someone’s home in West milford."

the animal or an extremely hairy gay man?


Metsman, no need to use anomalies to try to strike fear into people, or raise awareness...as far as bear roadkill, I've seen it on route 80 inJersey 5-6 years ago, I've also seen it in the middle of nowhere Pennsylvania about 20 years ago...where animals have to cross roads, they are bound to be hit at some point.

Localchef Localchef
August 24th

Metsman - that could have been avoided. They were warned that a bear was coming that way. They went in intentionally looking for the bear. Probably peaked it’s attention and when they didn’t like it’s reaction RAN away. They did everything you are not supposed to do. They acted like prey in a nature preserve.
Please don’t make it seem like they were going for an innocent stroll in a town park.

Walking Girl Walking Girl
August 24th

Re: Better get used to more bear encounters

lalalalala


That guy actually had the last laugh. His father had always disparaged him by saying "you'll never amount to s**t"

Well, guess what? Lol

Lord, I apologize for that there and... be with the pygmies in New Guinea, amen.


Such a typically American reaction. Some guy provokes a wild bear, and the bear eats him, but all bears are evil and need to be killed. Some guy randomly shoots up a school, but it's the gun lobbyists who are evil.

JerseyWolf JerseyWolf
August 24th

And when they take a stroll into people's homes? That the persons fault right? LOL...


If a bear is strolling into your home Metsman, that certainly is your fault...

Localchef Localchef
August 24th

Yea ok buddy... Keep drinking the Koolaid you're drinking... Because bears never break in if they smell something they like... LOL...


The truth is the bear killed and ate the young hiker proving the simple tounderstand fact that they are indeed, dangerous wild animals.

So we can finally agree on that, correct?

So the young guy gets killed and eaten and you blame him? Wow! So, by using the same logic (or lack of logic rather), in sexual assault cases you ask the young girl what she was wearing, right ? Because at some point along the way it was her fault? Really?

Oh man, may the good lord save me from this nonsense.

GreyHawk GreyHawk
August 25th

Yes. I blame him. His intent was to go find that bear. Stupid move on his part. With food in his backpack.

This has nothing to do with sexual assault.

Walking Girl Walking Girl
August 25th

and from the press article about that incident "The death of Patel was the first confirmed instance of a person being killed by a bear in New Jersey. Some 60 such fatal attacks have occurred in North America over the last century, experts said. However, the attacks on Patel can still be considered "one in a million," they added."


Yeah because up until the last 15 to 20 years black bears were in much smaller numbers. Of course there wouldn't be attacks.


They can study all they want, however hunting is the only way to control the population.

How do all of you arm chair biologists plan to control the bear population?

And don't say Birth control! It is completely ineffective and would be extremely costly if tried.


Its simple math. Leave the population to grow unchecked and there will be more encounters with humans which sometimes may not end well. They mostly eat fruit, nuts, honey, insects, and small mammals. Occasionally they'll eat small deer. You have too many and food sources in smaller patches of woods will be consumed and they will starve. Last time I checked deer are much faster than bears. So unless one is injured venison isn't exactly plentiful for them to eat on a regular basis. So what's that leave... your garbage cans. your pets.


"Occasionally they'll eat small deer." Mets, something blasted a fawn on my North 40. I let the grass get 8 inches or so something and it didn't even hit the blades when I ran over it at 4-inch height. It was that destroyed ---- and not vulture destroyed but something......yuge. So I had guessed ---- bear.

strangerdanger strangerdanger
August 25th

A bear ate 2 of my goats...didnt became the bear, blamed myself, and learned a lesson.

Grey Hawk, bears aren't inherently dangerous wild animals, they are wild animals that can be potentially dangerous...there is a huge difference.

Localchef Localchef
August 25th

localchef, you and I agree that the truth is that they are indeed, dangerous wild animals. The fact that the bear killed and ate the young hiker proves it beyond a doubt.

GreyHawk GreyHawk
August 25th

They went hiking with food in their back packs. I guess they don't have bears in India? Their has been a bear hunt for most of the years Christy was in office. Most of you are probably seeing the same bear. When I hike I never carry food or water with me. I don't fear any animals except the two legged kind. I have seen bears in the area and they have just run away from me. People if you are afraid of living out here NY and the Oranges aren't that far to go back to. If you can't live with nature then you don't belong in this part of the state. Come live in Mansfield Village people and you will see some animals. Oh and those of you who loose live stock not only bear will kill them. Loosing live stock to wild animals has been happening for centuries. Just claim it as a loss on your taxes. Better watch out everyone for that pig that got away from the live stock barn in town. He may attack at any time. They have to eat to.

Outdoor Woman Outdoor Woman
August 26th

You guessed wrong
http://www.wildlifeindia.co.uk/wildlife-species-india/wildlife-bears-india.html


>>>And don't say Birth control<<<
dang who's putting on that condom? wouldn't want that job.......haha


Re: Better get used to more bear encounters

Beware of bears that can read...

NotIn NJ Anymore NotIn NJ Anymore
August 27th

Lessions in all this:

Most peoples cat's are twice as fat as a grey fox

little dogs can be let out at night with no fear of owl's

You're not allowed to take food hiking

You're at fault for anything that breaks into your home if your a good cook

"White People" means the democrats who brought us all the good things like: the Trail of Tears, the Civil War, the KKK, Jim Crow laws, planned parenthood and the tyranny of low expectations which tells people that instead of trying to live a better life we'll give you just enough money to scratch out a living in a terrible neighborhood.

One-eyed Poacher One-eyed Poacher
September 5th

One-eyed poacher and don't forget the most important one:

Lessons is spelled "L e s s o n s". LOL

Walking Girl Walking Girl
September 5th

Perhaps he meant lesions and not lessons?

justintime justintime
September 5th

Don't blame the bears. they are just getting even with humans for farming their bile. This is not revenge, it's retribution....

Dodgebaal Dodgebaal
September 5th

Good point justin


Sorry it was lessons, but I think lesions are more appropriate.

One-eyed Poacher One-eyed Poacher
September 6th

Re: Better get used to more bear encounters

good information - and www.ahnow.org is a great resource if you find an orphaned or injured animal


Good information https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QI2ixJeIxEU


Guy I know, a park ranger, nice guy- sent me a picture of a HUGE bear they just killed.

Not work related, not on state land. He is just a hunter.

I don't say anything to him- but makes me sad.

If mankind weren't here that bear would just be doing bear (nature) business.

A few days ago he sent me a pic of a HUGE fish they caught.

I don't know what to think.

Part of me thinks that huge beautiful thing was alive and swimming a minute ago.

Now it is dead.

Part of me thinks- that is a LOT of sandwiches!

He told me he was going to mount it - I told him to eat it.

I don't see a point in needless killing for display or trophy.

I will still eat fish and meat. No I've never ate a bear, but I guess I would try it.

I'm a caveman, but a smart caveman so I have these dilemmas.

If it isn't hurting you- leave it alone unless you are eating it.

I suppose that is hypocritical and conflicted.

Becoming more common of an occurrence as I age...


Couldn't agree more Josh. +1

CraftBeerBob CraftBeerBob
October 12th

Um Josh... when animals are mounted, the meat isn’t in the mount. So you can still eat the animal AND mount it.


Me too Josh


Me too Josh - I had a bear that would come to my yard when I lived in NJ - we used to call him Nelson. Super cute.


Hmm, I figured you would have called him Tim. ;)

http://cleveland.wikia.com/wiki/Tim_the_Bear

Mark Mc. Mark Mc.
October 13th

Ha totally


Went to the weigh station in Fredon. The advocates held a protest. Cubs and more mammas being killed like crazy. Idiot Murphy could have stopped this Christie trophy hunt but didn’t.


Is there actual data to support the claim "Cubs and more mammas being killed like crazy". Or is that simply rhetoric repeated by the anti hunt side?

Just curious.

I can't seem to find any data online regarding age or weight of a harvested bear or even a detailed chart breaking down the numbers other than overall quantity. I would think that information is collected but haven't seen it.


Lol Greg.... Facts and data?

You’re crazy!

Mark Mc. Mark Mc.
October 13th

all I could fine: https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/new-jersey/articles/2018-10-10/dozens-of-black-bears-killed-so-far-in-new-jersey-hunt
and this: https://www.njherald.com/20181012/bear-hunt-tally-84#//

nothing about mommas and cubs


"Went to the weigh station in Fredon. The advocates held a protest. Cubs and more mammas being killed like crazy. Idiot Murphy could have stopped this Christie trophy hunt but didn’t."

The harvesting of mamma and cubs do not equate to a "trophy hunt" more of a management hunt by definition.

Why do you feel the hunt in NJ is a trophy hunt?


If you were going for a “trophy” wouldn’t you try to get the biggest bear possible (i.e. not a cub or female)?

Mark Mc. Mark Mc.
October 13th

Go to the FB pages pics are there at the protest.


Go to NJ Fish and Game website. Cubs and mothers are allowed to be shot. No age limits! Facts...not anti BS.


Ah I see. If it is anti bear hunt FB pages you are referring to then naturally it is biased. Could even be photos from anywhere posted for the sensationalism. As evidenced in the recent Justice Kavanaugh fiasco, lies, deceit, and pure fabrication are the norm when a group opposes something. In this case it's simply a legal, organized state authorized bear hunt.

I would rather see thorough, hard data collected at the check in stations by state officials. That is what will expose the true facts regarding what was harvested. I would not want to base an opinion on rhetoric and possible untruths on some social media outlet. But hey that's just me! LOL.


The total harvested is posted. Not the weights. Why have a weigh station if they are not going to post the weights of the bear.? What are they hiding? Hmmmmm.


Whether it happens en masse or not, i have no idea, but the fact remains that people do kill Cubs and mothers with cubs(think, 2 weeks to bag something, better to go home with any bear than no bear)...not much sport in shooting a young curious animal, and not much sport in leaving young Cubs to a near certain long and miserable death. Also not much sport in dumping piles of sticky buns, donuts, and molasses to bait the animals. Similar to the reason that I hate power bait for freshly stocked trout, that's feeding, not fishing.

Not against the bear hunt, but would like to see more regulations as to the hows ond what's of harvesting. The total weight of the harvest would be very telling....100 bears killed, 40,000+ pounds would be great...however, I doubt actual data would be near close to that.

Localchef Localchef
October 13th

Well fortunately the percentage of hunters in this country has been dropping and dropping steadily over the years. At this point only about 5% of Americans hunt. 95% of us are compassionate people who enjoy observing and appreciate wildlife. Seems it won't be long before the Neanderthal mindset of those hunters becomes extinct.

happiest girl
October 13th

Happiest girl, the horse you ride must be very high...

And of the 95% you speak of, probably 85% actually could give a hoot either way.

Localchef Localchef
October 13th

Localchef,
I stated a documented fact.
You stated nothing factual at all.

happiest girl
October 13th

https://www.npr.org/2018/03/20/593001800/decline-in-hunters-threatens-how-u-s-pays-for-conservation

The 5% number is true - however hunters pay for the conservation 40% of America uses daily

“State wildlife agencies and the country's wildlife conservation system are heavily dependent on sportsmen for funding. Money generated from license fees and excise taxes on guns, ammunition and angling equipment provide about 60 percent of the funding for state wildlife agencies, which manage most of the wildlife in the U.S.”

https://www.doi.gov/pressreleases/new-5-year-report-shows-1016-million-americans-participated-hunting-fishing-wildlife


“ - The U.S. Department of the Interior announced a new report by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service that shows that 101.6 million Americans—40 percent of the U.S. population 16 years old and older—participated in wildlife-related activities in 2016, such as hunting, fishing, and wildlife-watching.”

So while it may not agree with your agenda - if you want to enjoy the parks suck it up or pay for it


I have no agenda ---------but it seems you do.

The facts are the facts ......... hunting is on it's way out



.

happiest girl
October 13th

Happiest girl don't birds hunt, fox ,wolves, bears, and everything else that eats other animals. So why is it that people with their own views need to push them on others and make statements like "Neanderthal". Open minded people except others who don't share their views and don't make offensive remarks. So contact the nearest native American tribe you can and call them Neanderthals, see how that goes for you. Hunters on the whole have more respect and understanding about the environment than most vegans or antihunters. Why because they spend time in nature and preserving it.

Justpassinthru
October 14th

The agenda is that you’re once again sewing hate and discontent with incorrect facts. - hunters and firearm owners bear 100% of the cost of wildlife preservation. 5% of the US is still 15M people.

Hunters are neither Neanderthals nor about endangering wildlife. Let’s see how much compassion there is if that cost gets passed on to the general ledger.


It is not an easy topic. We exist today because our ancestors were hunter-gatherers. Not all were hunters and not all were gatherers. Today, industrialized slaughter has replaced the functional need for hunting -- do you need to hunt, why not just drive and get a Big Mac? Is hunting "bad" not IMHO if you respect the kill and only engage in clean kills. Personally, I no longer hunt -- clay pigeons are a great substitute!

If you are going to criticize hunting (and even if you hunt) you need to criticize the industrialized slaughter process of cows, chickens, pigs, etc.

Humans need to evolve beyond this, work to be done, progress to be made.


Yep I’m one of those hippocrites - love meat support lawful hunting and wildlife - Have had in-line muzzleloader, rifle , and shotgun licenses for years - never could hurt an animal and have never pulled that trigger.


For deer hunting is a critical form of poupultion control. The population if not culled would quickly become a public safety issue in NJ - that’s why you have to take a doe before you can take a buck.

https://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw/pdf/govdrrpt.pdf

The black bear population too is to the point where it needs control and sterilization of female bears is not feasible

https://www.state.nj.us/dep/dsr/bear/

Unless you want to be a science denier - you have to deal with a regulated hunt.


I hear all of this. Man has disrupted the cycle and just hunting permits is not the answer. I don't know the answer but we must live in harmony with nature -- that is a starting point.

I am not a believer in simple solutions to a complicated problem when the simple solution only complicates the problem over time. When I see deer and bear carcasses on the road it makes me wonder where is our advanced society, our advanced way of living -- I just don't see it...


Agreed we have to manage the wildlife population to strike that balance where these animals are not being struck and endangering motorists


"I stated a documented fact."

"95% of us are compassionate people who enjoy observing and appreciate wildlife."

is not a documented fact. it's a social jihad warrior's hyperbole at best.


Like you said, when the cost presents itself to the general population -- will they bite :)


What is laughable......and pathetic ...... is the statement made by Skippy:
"hunters and firearm owners bear 100% of the cost of wildlife preservation".

This is a downright lie. So anyone who says this is lying for their own agenda, or is uneducated about wildlife preservation funding.

happiest girl
October 14th

Ok I gave you a link

Here is another

https://www.fws.gov/refuges/hunting/hunters-as-conservationists/

Feel free to back up your position.


http://usfwspacific.tumblr.com/post/119301140095/hunters-anglers-the-backbone-of-wildlife

Here’s a third

“Through self-imposed excise taxes on hunting, shooting, archery and angling equipment, and boating fuels, hunters, recreational shooters and anglers have contributed more than $20.2 billion for wildlife and habitat conservation since 1937, including $1.1 billion in 2018.”


Educate me..


So do you actually believe the monetary contribution of hunters totally funds wildlife conservation?
"hunters and firearm owners bear 100% of the cost of wildlife preservation".
That's really astounding that you can think that.

The amount from hunters is trivial compared to the total funding of conservation.

"Approximately 95% of federal, 88% of nonprofit, and 94% of total funding for wildlife conservation and management comes from the non-hunting public".

You can educate yourself by reading the article and charts.

https://www.mountainlion.org/featurearticleguestwhopaysforwildlife.asp

happiest girl
October 14th

Ok let’s pretend for a minute thst has any validity - which it may or may not. Are you willing to add another billion dollars of liability onto the the tax payer to maintain these preservations? and what is your answer to animal population control?

The fact remains that controlled hunts are an effective means to population control and defer costs of wildlife population management.

For the umpteenth time - no matter who pays for it the responsibility for population control falls on the state. Seeing as NJ has billions in pension debt what’s your plan to remain solvent and keep people from striking deer with their car due to over population?

You have no moral upper hand here


Come on folks: one says state, the other fed.... Maybe if you found an authors that could add both....

Strangerdanger Strangerdanger
October 14th

Point remains hunts are critical to population control and hunters pay a significant portion of not most of the preservation costs..


Hunters pay state and federal taxes add that to what they pay no?

Justpassinthru
October 14th

Actually, hate to say this, but wildlife control is just an after effect of the explosion of the human population. There are now 7.5 billion of us. How many bear, deer, elephants, Hawks, Wales, are there? Problem is no one wants to talk about this. Oh, by the way I'm a hunter.


"For the umpteenth time - no matter who pays for it the responsibility for population control falls on the state. Seeing as NJ has billions in pension debt what’s your plan to remain solvent and keep people from striking deer with their car due to over population?"

NJ is an expert in population control. More people are leaving then entering at a record pace.....

CraftBeerBob CraftBeerBob
October 14th

@indy please don't bring the whelsh into this they did no wrong


I’ve lived in NW NJ for about 35 years-seen MAYBE 5-6 bears.
Not a problem, to me, and am delighted when I catch a glimpse of one.


I've seen 2 - neither in a position to do damage or harm


The Babies are super cute for sure


My brain keeps reading “beer encounters” whenever this thread comes up. And I rarely drink beer!

Maybe I’m missing out lol

justintime justintime
October 15th

Yes Bob, people are leaving NJ. Especially certain people. Yet the population in the 2010 census and as estimated in 2017 as in I think every other year continues to grow. Albeit slowly and now under 1% per year.

We continue to be a very densely populated state.

Strangerdanger Strangerdanger
October 15th

I too see beer and I am a rare drinker....except at our breweries.

Bear sightings were down in 2017. However, I have seen my normal quota of a few, however, so far they have been traveling away from my house instead of up the driveway and past my front door.

Having twice been caught within 20 feet, once in the bear’s domain and once in mine; that’s a good thing.

If they metric the bear hunt to sightings and population, I can live with less sightings at my back door.

Same with the coyotes. I love to see them and appreciate that they keep a good distance.

Strangerdanger Strangerdanger
October 15th

And it’s healthier for the animals as food becomes more scarce as the population grows - and again the motorist safety issue.


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