North Korea/Immigration
Now that the summit has officially happened, and an agreement (of sorts) has been signed, let's see how this goes....
The agreement is very preliminary, no de-nuclearization in it. But a journey of a thousand miles starts with the first step, right?
What I find most interesting is that the last 3 presidents could have done this. NK invited them. They all said no. They were not willing to "give" NK the "playing card" of a presidential visit without them promising to de-nuke FIRST. Trump is taking a different tact, but that's what he does: he's a deal-maker. Won't it be interesting if this leads to the de-nuclearization of the Korean Peninsula, with the reward being NK getting a seat at the big boy's table and participating in the western economy.
I have said all along this posturing has always been about that: Kim-Jong Il was crazy; his son is a brat but I don't think he's crazy. I think Un has simply been posturing, to show his "strength", because he wants to be in the popular crowd. But his ego won't allow him to come crawling.... so if letting him posture, and then negotiate from a seeming position of power (it's not) gets the job done, fantastic. And if it works out, Trump should indeed receive the Nobel for his efforts.
HOWEVER- I don't expect NK to keep their word, despite signing an agreement. Just like Iran hasn't. It won't surprise me in the least if this whole deal falls through before completion (because NK won't de-nuke), nor if the deal is completed, and a few years down the road we find them not keeping to the deal.
The threat of any real nuclear launch is, imo, non-existant. This has all been posturing. The whole point of nukes is mutual assured destruction. Only a lunatic would launch a first strike. And Un is not a lunatic. He's a KID trying to become a MAN on the world stage.
Interesting times.
JeffersonRepub In the past we fought Germany, Japan, Vietnam, and now were are trading partners.That it is. Interesting times,
Old Gent 
SiaPIf anyone thinks North Korea would let themselves be completely denuclearized they are just SILLY!
Darrin Once the "BULLYING" starts up again for something, at some point (does it ever cease?), we'll be back to the starting point or near it.
Hackresident Darrin, Trump is working on the threat first. After the threat is mitigated, he will work on denuclearizing the peninsula. One thing at a time.
Media a few months ago: OMG Trump is going to get us in a Nuclear war with North Korea....
Media Now: OMG Trump is actually talking to that guy?!
DUMBacrats always find a way to make a good thing bad....
(Another example being the jobs reports...They're the best they've been in 20 years BUT Liberals complain)....
So yes president d****** is friends with the dictator but is a complete ass to our Allied friends. That doesn't seem right to me. President Trump is a dictator. He is a moron a bully a racist. And I will say under investigation. Our allies hate him and there's good reason to. I can't believe people are still being fooled by him
Proud liberal Trump has already done more than some presidents took 2 terms to do. This guy will go done in history as the GOAT.
Forcefed4door What has he done put children in cages lost 1500 children separate families oh yeah president Dirtbag has done a lot nothing but cause headache heartache and more racism in this country as people up to him as an example and are doing more racist stuff. Seriously what the heck are you smoking he is the worst president. The way he treats other people is disgusting especially women and minorities LOL I laugh at your comment because you're one of the people who are getting fooled by this in decent human piece of garbage
Metsman 
JYM Proud liberal, typical you think the the picture of kids in the cage was taken during the Trump administrations tenure. More liberal lies, that picture was taken when Obama was president. Get your facts straight please.
Infiniti2510 Better than Republicans. Republicans are not doing it time to make it wave for the blue I can see you're still being fooled by Trump. The way he talked with the Canadian leader and the way he treats the other allies is ridiculous. He's making friends with the wrong people. Republicans are not doing it they're not cutting it anymore they're scamming the people of America and it's ridiculous. Time for change time for somebody to know what the heck they're doing. Trump it is not the guy and his boat followers are being fooled and they're pretty stupid the ones I talk to their like Hillbillies that live in the country time for a change of time for Democratic to get control of the house till things get done Republicans failing
Yeah same with the race issues. They started with Obama. Fergusson and Baltimore happened on his watch.
LOL okay you keep on being fooled. I'm not it's not even worth arguing with a trump supporter they're not well educated on what is going on.
Proud Liberal or Bobby? As in, Bobby DeNiro! You really are suffering from a bad case of TDS (Trump Derangement Syndrome)! Now you are even commenting on the Hackettstown Life Forum! LOL!!!
At least this negotiation did not require 1.4 Billion in cash to be flown to "Rocket Man" in the middle of the night. Did somebody say Iran? Owebama?
Yeah we're all toothless brain dead Neanderthals right? LOL... The arrogance of some liberals is astounding...
So funny reading proud liberal.. as usual the left, in its never ending quest for tolerance can only make points by inane name calling. The picture of the cages with children in them were of course, as we now,know, a picture from 2014 and the obama regime that the fake news tried to pass as current.
Thank you Proud Liberal for being proud of who you are, your language, lack of factual knowledge, childish name calling and a complete disregard of the facts of what is happening in the economy, our trade policies, black/hispanic unemployment, and consumer confidence provided a clear picture of the socialist/liberal of 2018.
Mark Why are our immigrant children being put in cages and where the heck are the 1500 missing children. And toddlers and babies getting ripped out of the hands of their mothers absolutely ridiculous no reason for that type of bullying. If your family live somewhere where soldiers came in the middle of night killing your children and you having to leave with nothing but the clothes on your back and having to travel by foot for many miles and enduring hunger and having no place to go. Would you want somebody to help you and your family. Sit down and think about that the way you're treating me is people it's ridiculous. And Trump is terrible his ass needs to be in jail for the treatment he's doing do these poor people let me ask you something would you want somebody and some country to help you and your family if this was you. Being thrown out of your homes these terrible people killing your children and your family and you than having to walk many many miles without food or shelter think about it stop thinking about your selfish self and think about these poor people. These people that are in war countries that have nothing. If you wear them what you want somebody to help you and your family.?
"So yes president d****** is friends with the dictator but is a complete ass to our Allied friends."
You kiss your mother with that mouth?
Our "allied friends" (Trudeau) is being a complete ass to our president.
Had Obama done this, signed this preliminary deal, today's headlines would have read "Peacemaker Obama!" "Obama the Great Diplomat!" "Obama: a 2nd Nobel Peace Prize?"
But since TRUMP did it, it's all "Trump was mean to Trudeau", "the agreement doesn't mention human rights", "how dare he talk to a murderous dictator"
Tucker Carlson was right: the greatest thing Trump has done was send the left so far over the edge that they have lost their minds, their extreme hypocrisy on grand display for all to see...and that includes most of the MSM. It's been HILARIOUS to watch the left double-down on their insanity. They are so consumed with hatred for Trump they no longer see reality. It's been joy.
Maybe if November goes the way I think it's going to, Proud Liberal's head will explode.
Trump: bringing balance to The Force lol
You think you're funny but actually you're pretty pathetic. Just like Trump himself seriously time for the Democratic takeover! Time for a change Trump is not the answer and if you think he is a decent human being you are wrong. Just the way he talked about women should be a heads up on how this terrible human being really as sand people do not learn from that it's pretty sad that our girls have to look to him to see that his earlier. Wake up and now you're not funny I don't smoke crack apparently YouTube because you voted for Trump time for the Blue Wave to come and get this country back on track
" Time for change time for somebody to know what the heck they're doing. "
Yes, America agreed with you... on November 8, 2016.
:)
Hmm... How about that Bill Clinton guy who recently got all bent out of shape over Monica Lewinsky and how he wouldn't do anything differently today...
You think racism is okay.? You think talk to you that women like the way Trump talks about is okay? You think snatching children away from their parents out of their mother's hand is okay? If you think any of this is okay and you support around this man you are horrendous person yourself I'm done arguing with a bunch of AirHeads there's nothing in your head but are if you think that the listed topics above is okay. We treat animals in shelters better than we do the people that are coming over to seek help from war countries. And it's ridiculous and if you support what Trump has done to these people and what he has said about women then you're just as love person as he is good day
What racism are you referring to and whose kids are being snatched? You're all over the place...
Actually JR we already know how Fox News would have reacted if Obama met with North’s Korea
https://www.google.com/amp/www.newsweek.com/fox-news-video-trump-obama-north-korea-848618%3famp=1
Trumpet Excellent! And to keep things in perspective.... Fox News (who also hypocritical, yes), is ONE of.... let's see....
ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, PBS.... so 1 of 6 MSM television outlets. 1 that leans right vs 5 that lean left... FAR left in some cases. Serious minority.
Of course that goes ditto for all the printed news outlets as well, NYT, Washington Post, etc etc etc.
Don't waste your breath arguing with a trump supporter it's like arguing with a small toddler LOL they don't get their way so they have a little tantrum just like our so-called current president
NJSkyWatcher 
"they don't get their way so they have a little tantrum"
The only tantrums I saw were getting thrown by all the lefties who voted for Hillary. And of course 90% of the media.
Liberals....cry me a river lol! And float Obongo Hillary Podesta Holder Frigging Bernie the pathetic know nothing about economics geezer who got screwed by his own liberal communist party float them far away and help make America great again lol!!!!!
Outside. And you come on here spewing hate to people who dont agree with you. How are you any different than the person you are comming on this forum badmouthing...Yes you are a bigot.
Proud Liberals posts are absolutely hilarious.....it's like watching an ongoing adult temper tantrum......It's so amusing to watch you squirm!
God, if we said 1/4 of the stuff you are running on, and on, and on about when Obummer was in office, we would have been permanently banned from the site!
I am honestly surprised the ongoing name calling and foul language from proud liberal has been allowed to stay....better posts have been removed for far less, and it is very clearly against the forum rules...maybe you should read them something?
You mean because I speak the truth. And people were horrible about Obama when he was president. I just how it is. Trump is racist and his supporters are too because I support that type of behavior. And it needs to stop. Trump looks down on women and minorities and it's horrible and so does his supporters. It has to change. Now he's becoming friends with the dictators of North Korea and that's not okay and he's being a jerk or to our allies that's not okay either. I tell it like it is. I've seen videos of numerous horrible behaviors about racism and they even admit because Trump is in office and they think it's okay. Well guess what it's not okay racism should not have happened in this day and age and we should be helping or immigrants who were coming from warlike countries. I bet you would want something or somebody to help you if you were coming from these countries and it's ridiculous. And the text scam is only for the rich and he's basically saying f*** you poor and f*** you minorities and he's giving the rich a tax break when we cannot afford that. I'm sorry if you don't like the way my posts are but I tell it how it is and I'm standing up with democratic because it's the way the country is being ran right now is not okay by a dictator and a racist and it has to stop. I'm a part of a group that educates what Trump is doing and I will continue to educate about the horrible things that this was so-called president is doing to the people. Especially the immigrants. Immigrant children are being taken from their mother right out of their hands and being put in cages living conditions or not good and he lost 1500 immigrant kids how is that okay immigrants are not nobody ever deserves to be treated like that. We live inside times Trump is not the answer he's probably promoting hate and he's really not doing an American people good by helping the rich get richer people are suffering because there assistance is being taken away very sad times I apologize if I offended your sensitive cells but this is not okay the way that work living right now in Trump's America terrible terrible terrible and something has to be done that. Obama when he was president horrible things was saidt about him . It's time to wake up and realize Trump is not the answer and stop living in tunnel vision Trump is racist and is a goonie
So you actually prefer a destabilized Korean Peninsula under nuke threat, higher taxes, higher unemployment, a slower economy, Hamas killing Israelis, and MS-13 flooding into the U.S.. because Drumpf REEEEEEE!
Trump is so Racist that he freed Alice Johnson from prison
http://www.businessinsider.com/alice-johnson-trump-clemency-pardon-kim-kardashian-west-2018-5
Black unemployment is at an all time low and the delta between that and white unemployment is the smallest in recorded history. (See employment thread)
has growing support from the black community
https://www.yahoo.com/news/donald-trump-tells-kim-kardashian-113455283.html
Democrat tactics 101. Label your opponent as racist, sexist, homophobic, elitist, etc. Doesn’t matter if it isn’t true. Just keep pushing the angle regardless of validity.
skippy I am still working and learning English my apologies but no need to be a bully and make fun of that
@PL "no need to be a bully"
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA....pot MEET KETTLE
Still learning English? What ever happened to that being part of the test to legally live here?
It's all making sense now.......
"I am still working and learning English my apologies but no need to be a bully and make fun of that" - ill give you kudos for attempting to assimilate in to the culture
oh the racist is also awarding a presidential medal of freedom to Dennis Rodman.
"Trump is racist and his supporters are too because I support that type of behavior. " well you support racists so I am not worried it.
You are bullies immigrants and people who don't speak English well. My case has been proven and it shows that you're just as a bully like trumpets good day
"99% of media outlets are covering the federal investigation into the Trump Campaign thats lead to charges, indictments, and guilty pleas, but Sean Hannity told me that's all a conspiracy so you libtards are crazy!" - JeffersonRepub's thought process.
Honestly do you just copy and paste the transcript of whatever Fox News says? It's crazy that people honestly believe that they won't spin literally everything in the favor of republicans and against the democrats.
Reasonable All and all you failed my experiment test and you bullied immigrants especially with that meme so I can't take what you say seriously you're just like our so-called racist president
You do realize all the charges have nothing to do with what Mueller is supposed to be investigating right? He has nothing. The investigation is a farce...
And if you think putting children in cage is acceptable behavior like Trump is doing then I pray that you don't have any children
https://www.apnews.com/d110c36836ab4003ad77396025616f04
The Nogales photos were taken during the Obama administration, in 2014
No law mandates that parents must be separated from their children at the border, Under U.S. protocol, if parents are jailed, their children would be separated from them - unless you want children to be put in cages...
Nobody can stop trump as he steam rolls ahead and over the lefties. Hes even got Dennis Rodman on his side. Kidding aside Trump won his second term the minute he started his first one. I can tell everyone that one thing is certain, that Proud Liberal will in fact be very disappointed that day :)
I am a woman, I am middle class living pay check to pay check and I voted for Trump. For the past 1.5 years all I've heard is..."you support Trump, you're a racist". I am so sick and tired of the Libs calling Trump supporters racists, bullies, etc. I'd give my last penny to someone who needed it (regardless of color or who they voted for). Some of these liberals...I wonder if you'd help out someone wearing a MAGA hat or would you kick them when they were down???
You all sit there and talk about how Trump speaks about women....but you completely seem to ignore the whole topic when it comes to the Bill & Monica scandal.
Regarding N. Korea...it's a positive step in the right direction. As an American I hope promises are fulfilled and it's a success. Republican or Democrat...shouldn't we all be hoping for the same thing?? Well....I wouldn't be surprised if Crazy Hilary isn't hoping for success...
Why isn't everyone rooting & cheering for the USA & it's success??? Seems to me the libs are hoping the US fail.
HopeitsLuke Proud Liberal - how many times are you going to repeat that children are "kept in cages" under Trump after multiple people have fact checked you on that and showed you proof this occurred in 2014? Do you even read what people are responding or do you just believe every thing you see re-posted on Facebook that is meant to conjure up emotions on those who are easily swayed by propaganda? This is a serious question because you keep repeating the same thing over and over with nothing to back besides your own emotions and it's becoming frustrating to read. If you want these people to listen to you and not respond sarcastically, you need to listen to them as well when they are responding directly to the inaccuracies you are posting.
Lucky123 fake news...
Polls show Trump’s approval growing, better than Obama’s during same period in Obama’s presidency. Obama’s disapproval numbers averaged 54-57 percent in June 2010. Obama’s approval numbers remained relatively low, and his disapproval numbers relatively high, for several years.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/trump_administration/trump_approval_index_history
the American economy is booming - go look at the may jobs report thread..
Wage growth is booming, the stock market is skyrocketing and consumer confidence is at a 17-year high.
https://www.conference-board.org/data/consumerconfidence.cfm
I like how you post this completely unsubstantiated stuff with no basis - with no supporting info.. No need .. Drumpf is a racist got it.
TheYale 
Don Besides, trump offered NK real estate,condos and best hotels. Who is going to put in money there when Kim himself couldn't afford his Singapore hotel stay. Trump and America cannot force EU or any other independent country to invest there with development there. It's a deal between America and NK,so what we promised NK, are we going to give them that? How do you verify and validate NK complies to denuclearization? That's altogether a long process. They must not end up blackmailing us to give in for every little baby step they take.
What didn't happened? What picture it? If they weren't caged then why was a senator not allowed in? Nothing to hide,right?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/senator-jeff-merkley-barred-brownsville-texas-detention-center-refugee-children-2018-06-04/
Proud Liberal. I’m married to a mexican, who was born in Mexico. We are both trump supporters. Mind blown yet? Are we both racists?
Philliesman Why is Obama always a benchmark for trump and his supporter. I guess for trump he can't get over the fact that a black foreigner(foreigner to him-kid born to an American parent,even if abroad is american) dared to become potus. Why no mention of FDR as benchmark who is the 1st american potus to make America global economic and military superpower?
ok continue to fabricate reality
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2018/06/06/does-the-u-s-keep-immigrant-children-in-cages/?noredirect=on
It’s a secure facility in a converted former Wal-Mart that’s heated cooled etc.
Merkley was admitted but couldn’t take pictures or enter with the ACLU and the rest of the clown college.
Merkley was told he could not stream it on Facebook
They use fencing to separate children from adults
That’s all from a WaPo article. Give it a rest
Philliesman: I guess proudliberal meant is every racist in America is most likely a trump supporting republican.
So, are the kids allowed to go out? Play in the sunshine like your kids, Skippy? What about their emotional balance? Putting them in bunked beds or say without the caged,, without taking them out is "home" or good enough for you if they were your kids? What about those babies and small toddlers that were separated?
The Yale, the senator was allowed to visit the sites he hsdotiginally requested. You seem to have overlooked that fact. The senator was denied access to a third site he had not previously requested. BTW, nothing was found to be wrong by the senator at the sites visited. Another fact you seem to have overlooked.
BC hardest working president of my whole lifetime, history and the extreme leftists can't deal with it, they only have two things in their playbook, two things they repeat like TM mantra over and over again, 'racist and womanizer', they got nothing on the substance of what is by all measures, the successful track record of this administration, and all of this is happening in the face of fierce resistance from both established parties.
we wanted change and we got it, we wanted a true outsider and we got it, hallelujah
this was a successful diplomatic trip, and your president should get credit for it,
GreyHawk BC: My concern is not about the kids are caged or not. I am more concerned about the emotional well being of the kids, especially those toddlers,babies and younger kids. Do they have normal activities like other kids,your kids? They are not prisoners,right? Not prosecuted,right? Then, do they spend entire day all time in the highly secured Walmart, without seeing sunshine? Are they allowed to go out and play? How are their emotional well being taken care of? What about the other 1500 missing kids,given away by DHS to the so called vetted sponsors? And those sponsors are untraceable?!! What were those your kids? Would you have cared then??
Looks like a snow flake is having a melt down. Give him a brake, but take his guns away, Ho! that is right, he does not have any.
The only racist I see in this whole thread is Proud Liberal. Questions for you Proud Liberal: Are all white people racists because they are white? Have you ever met a white person who was not a racist? Are all conservatives racists? Even those who are African-American, Hispanic and Asian?
TheYale: Maybe their parents shouldn't have sent them across the border unattended. They could have kept their kids with them if they wanted their families to be together. If parents in NJ behaved this way towards their own children DCF would step in and take charge of them. Again, you need to look back at the prior administration for the kids in cages move that Obama is responsible for.
“So, are the kids allowed to go out? Play in the sunshine like your kids, Skippy? What about their emotional balance? Putting them in bunked beds or say without the caged,, without taking them out is "home" or good enough for you if they were your kids? What about those babies and small toddlers that were separated?”
Well their families just dragged them through the desert riddled with human and drug traffickers - I’m sure going out to play during the 72 hours they are there is not high on the Maslow hierarchy.
There getting food water shelter and medical care and most likely sent to live with familiy members in the us.
Liberal -
And apparently because I have fact based comments and opinions and don’t buy into your imagined agenda I too am racist. Meanwhile you are living in the greatest country in the world - as an immigrant - which protects your right to hold your completely biased opinion and spew it on to the internet. God Bless America.
I find it troubling you support someone that talks about women in terrible ways and who thinks lock in up kids is ok
That's per the international treaty that America signed to. Do you expect the kids to be sent to labor camps like in NK? Every country do what America does- give food,shelter and medical needs to refugees or illegal immigrants and their kids,but no country,not even in Europe,they separate kids,babies from their mothers. Don't try to justify that. It was done by executive order.
alpha1beta Did I miss something? Where are these children who are locked up by President Trump?
Calico696 “Every country do what America does- give food,shelter and medical needs to refugees or illegal immigrants and their kids,but no country,not even in Europe,they separate kids,babies from their mothers. “ as was posted and linked to before - this only happens in cases where the parents are being held for criminal charges outside of the illegal entry to the US. No country in the world houses pre-trial inmates with children. Why would you even advocate for that. This is done to protect children from predatory adults.
In what other context would parents who are clearly endangering the lives of their children , including them in the commission of a crime and contributing to their delinquency be seen as victims? This problem is not unique to this administration. Regan put Central Americans in camps, Obama did the same - guess what this is a humane way we have to deal with this problem which abides by international law.
The message clearly being sent is DON’T COME ILLEGALLY.
By the way - trump denounces separating children in any form. Next
What if was your family in a war zone??? No place to go ....because they took home ..killed family...no food water....what would YOU do? To become citizen is hard and they do pay money to stay here...that's what is wrong not caring about people and putting more money in rich pockets... Trump and his friends are crazy
You don’t have to become a citizen to live here legally. How does one pay money to continue an illegal act? There are provisions for asylum seekers in that event. I certainly would not violate the sanctity of a sovereign nation and demand rights freedoms benefits and protection of their government. That was the point of the meme earlier - you don’t get to do that in any circumstance.
You need an ID to vote in Mexico - not here. Which Is another thing we need to change so this gargbage doesn’t keep getting pandered to - the only reason it’s being discussed is the democratic base consists of the deceased on the voting rolls, illegal aliens granted ID in the blue states and the elite globalist crowd who just want to make sure they have cheap household labor. Think about it
Sorry Proud, but you really need to be educated. I have some questions for you. Why did you come to this country?? Are you contributing anything?? What are you giving back to be here?? Being an American is a privilege and not a right to freeload. Did you come here to become an American and have all the freedoms we hold dear. Did you leave the land your from and not look back?? Seems to me you brought nothing but hate.
auntiel If you must know yes I'm a legal citizen if you would like to see my paperwork I'd be happy to fax it over to you. I paid taxes and my fees to become a citizen and yes I contribute to society and I volunteer so yes I am here legally and I did it the right way but unfortunately many people are suffering and these War zones and America should do more to help instead of President Trump o putting money into the riches Pockets scamming people and saying f*** you the for minorities and also God said to help those who need help well these poor people need help. I invite anybody to have some coffee and have a friendly debate and I will educate you on the Terrible Things That Trump is doing but yes if you like my paperwork I would love to fax it over to you
Skippy,
Keep lying! No country prosecutes illegal immigrants. These prosecution started after trump came to office. Jeff sessions is the brain behind this. There is no law to prosecute illegal immigrants before that like you claim! In other countries,they deport. Even in EU, they don't prosecute illegal immigrants. They could have deported,these separating kids and parents and prosecuting parents happened under trump and session,not before that and not in any other countries
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-europe-36469014
I would love to share stories over a cup of coffee about what these poor people are going through their children are dying their family members are getting kidnapped and killed by these horrible people in the war zone countries. I extend an open invitation for coffee so I can educate you people about the heartache that these poor immigrants are going through and then maybe you'll have a heart and you realize that these people are God's people too and they deserve shelter food and water just like you have. To turn their backs on these poor people who lost their homes family members everything they have except the stuff on their backs is heartbreaking and hear people saying that these people don't matter is terrible. The lies Trump has told is ridiculous and you people are being Fooled Again I invite you for a cup of coffee on me and I will educate you about what Trump is doing and the lies he's telling and everything else that relates this topic. And the people who are making fun of immigrants and questioning me is just terrible and it just shows what kind of people you really are somebody like Trump and that is saddening. After all the Native Americans were here first so technically your families are all immigrants unless you're Native American. Something to think about. Again I extend an open invitation coffee on me so I can educate you
And for aunt. I love this country I love most of the people in this country what I don't love is the so-called president and the people who think like him. I became a citizen when Barack Obama was here I loved him and I was very sad to see him go so you choosing me of what you stated above is a lie and that just shows that your hatred towards immigrants which is so sad because I know so many great people who are immigrants who brought so much to this world of love. I invite you and anybody else to email me we'll get together and I can tell you stories of what people have suffered and go into detail and you would be disgusted on how they were treated well I would hope you would be disgusted of these poor treatment of people. I would love to meet you for coffee and anybody who's interested he wants to learn what really is going on
Even trump has to go back only till his grandpa,before that his bloodline was in Scotland and Germany. Just saying
Very true Yale and also his wife was an immigrant which I don't understand. I feel very badly for that girl because she doesn't get treated like she should by Trump it's ridiculous
Funny thing about trump is he married two legal immigrants and his wife Melania brought her parents here through chain migration. No trump voter has problem with that.Now trump get all angry and hates legal immigrants as well and chain migration. His brave voters don't question him about his wife or in laws but clapped and shout his name. Wow! That's His Royal Highness of United States of America
If trump married a legal brown Arab immigrant instead Caucasian Christian European immigrants, sure some trump voters would have asked some questions
The Yale, The children being detained after illegally crossing our border are being well cared for. They have safe shelter, good food and medical care something they lacked during their journey, a journey that placed them in danger. So they are much better off now than they were previously. Keep in mind, the separation of children from their parents after entering our country illegally was initiated during the Obama administration. However many critics of Presiddnt Trump try to place the policy on him. Lastly, Obama let tens of thousands of undocumented children be dispersed throughout the country to supposed family members. Most were never heard from again, including failure to show up for their immigration hearings. Most likely because their so called family members are also here illegally and don't want to be found for fear of possible deportation.
Yep sad but true. I think we scared off the trump lovers with correct facts! There reaction to me be an immigrant just shows their true colors and how they really are terrible people like Trump
I always thought North Korea was being punished for their behavior in regards to economic sanctions, because the leadership of the country wronged those with greatest influence over the flow of global economies. It makes me think of Great Britain, and how they would react to perceived offenders.
But, I think the economy is a separate Entity from the D.C. government diplomacy. So if the POTD wants to have good foreign relations with a specific country, there's not much preventing it from wielding its authority.
Congress on the other hand, has the most say in regards to D.C.'s dollars.
While the goal is M.A.D., this hasn't stopped any country from trying to prevent 1st strike, 2nd strike, and 3rd strike capability or to assure first strike capabilities against a country. And, while people think you'd have to be "mad" to launch nukes, the option is realistic when it involves the invasion of a nuclear armed country like Russia and the U.S.A.
nobody Someone I know used to work at his Golf Course in Bedminster, and he saw DT and his wife in the clubhouse. I was told that he treated her rudely and without respect, and this was about the time when the golf course opened, about 10-12 years ago! (just saw the golf course opened up in 2004, 14 years ago).
Why so much bullying, belittling, name calling, derogatory descriptions and bad names about almost Everybody that doesn't think the world of him? I'd be thrown in jail and fired if I did that in the work place or out on the streets!
I've never seen anything like this in all my years of watching Presidencies.
I am sorry proud liberal, but if you in fact did it right...you should be mad at those who are trying to cheat the system....I certainly would be....because you proved yourself that it was possible to become a legal citizen...other people are just too lazy and know they can get away with it..and again what is it about ILLEGAL that you do not understand?
"I think we scared off the trump lovers with correct facts!"
You didn't scare off anyone...and if your did..it was certainly not with your delusional "facts"....Nothing you have said is correct...in fact it's just the opposite...factual info has been posted debunking your incorrect claims...yet you keep claiming it is true!!!!
And secondly.....everyone left their JOBS and went home to spend time with their family.....not everyone has the time to post every 10 minutes like you!!!!
Yep sad but true. I think we scared off the trump lovers with correct facts - name a “fact” you posted that was not debunked
@PL "Wow hack"
Um.....what? unless of course you are talking about yourself and all your debunked claims...in which case I AGREE WITH YOU!!!!!
LOL read the above message I was responding to hack residents what she said and your ridiculous I'm not going to spend waste time talking to you
I debunked you Skippy. This prosecution of illegal immigrants for just crossing started under trump as well as separation of kids. And they dared to give away someone's kids to vetted sponsors who lost almost 1500 kids as these sponsors remain untraceable! That's wrong. No country gives away illegal immigrants' kids away to other individuals
I just read an article where veterans that' they're being deported after serving this country horrible . LOL can't you read skip LOL
Trump's grandpa dodged 1 draft and ran away to America during WW1, he got kicked out of Germany,stripped of German citizenship.
Trump went to military school,played many types of sports there, then he dodged 5 drafts, he is president of United States of America, cheered upon by supporter for mocking mc Cain for returning home. Trump supporters are really patriotic. I applaud them with bow head.
If trump was German during WW1, he would have been kicked out of there 5 times. Just saying....
Sure the veterans that are being deported have not dealt with their legal status or have committed other crimes
https://www-m.cnn.com/2018/02/04/us/ice-possible-deportation-veteran/index.html
Nobody said military service made you above the law - you debunked nothing
Yale I and others have showed you links that this was in place at lest as far back as 2014
Got links to any of that? Do you need a lesson on how debunking things works?
Trump was one of 15.4 million men who received deferments, were exempted or disqualified from service - he appeared as ordered and the military didn’t accept him.
So the basis of your position is you’re wrong and a racist - despite being shown facts
https://www.npr.org/2016/01/13/462372040/service-members-not-citizens-meet-the-veterans-who-have-been-deported
Obama removed naturalization from basic training - how about that
“Naturalization used to be part of basic training, but the laws changed, Stock says. As a result, lots of green card holders went to Iraq and Afghanistan without becoming citizens. She says the Obama administration has been aggressive about deporting immigrants who commit crimes, including veterans, though no one knows an exact number.”
Military service doesn't make you above the law unless your military service is commander in chief. Can you imagine the republican reaction if Obama or Hilary had said that they could just pardon themselves for crimes as our current president did? And yet it is ignored.
I'm genuinely curious to hear how the Trump supporters in here feel about Trump saying he could pardon himself if he were charged with something as a result of the Mueller investigation.
Yup, as mc Cain said rich kids come up with bone spurs certificate made and paid by their dads to avoid veitnam. Trump gave other reasons too- attending college,etc etc.
Skippy,
Patriotism is all about spirit. To fight for your country no matter what! Trump was not disabled, he gave military excuses and one of them was bone spur. Military academies should stop taking students who have bone spurs like trump(we all know that a lie
As I said, patriotism is about the spirit and courage to fight and die for your country.
Even rich kid Robert Mueller VOLUNTERRED to fight in Vietnam and got injured in one of the fiercest battle there and even after injury he refused to be released from service and wanted to go back to veitnam to fight again. He only accepted release from service because as per military rule that time, he could not get back immediately after injury to the battlefield again.
Let's face it, military service to fight for your country is not for MEEK AND WEAK trump. He was given 5 chance,he didn't take it.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wearethemighty.com/veterans/the-reason-robert-mueller-enlisted-to-fight-in-vietnam/amp
“Can you imagine the republican reaction if Obama or Hilary had said that they could just pardon themselves for crimes as our current president did? “
Clinton relied on the sailors and soldiers exemption as commander in chief during his impeachment.
Trump didn’t say he could pardon himself Gulianni did - as did Allan Dershowitz a constitutional scholar and fervent liberal
Oh yes,
Skippy, I forgot to mention - trump went to veitnam as he described with his own words- "avoiding STD with women's pu$$ies were his own veitnam war" during the actual veitnam war time period.
So you can say he is a veteran
Wow Yale. I am learning a lot and now see trump is worse then I thought. Thank you!
June 4, 2018, "...I have the absolute right to PARDON myself..." Donald J. Trump, on twitter. So what's your opinion on Trump pardoning himself if the Mueller investigation proves that he committed a crime?
Reasonable,
You don't understand. Trump is His Royal Highness, King of USA to his MAGA base. Even if founding fathers,Lincoln, Reagan,FDR return from their graves(just saying to explain), they wouldn't care. Trump is NOT ONLY crowned KING of United States of America,but it's only founding father too, to his base. They will fight even with real actual founding fathers for trump.
To pardon himself? Only king/queen and royal family can do that! Not POTUS, POTUS is the number 1 topmost public servant. Constitution allows him to be indicted,impeached or even prosecuted. If he has constitutional rights as POTUS, Nixon and bill Clinton could have pardon themselves in oval office infront of DOJ officials instead of facing public humiliation and impeachment process,why didn't they use their constitutional rights? Because they don't have that
Except constitutional scholars have agreed thst he has thst power - what do you want me to say
Lol...proudliberal anyone coild make up anything they want and as long as it is anti trump....and you would "learn a lot"....meaning you are aparently believeing everything you hear and not doing a lick of your own research.
Now actually opening your ears and looking at both sides......that might actually teach you something as opposed to hiding behind your continual "racist" name placing.
And really....give it a break....you have been posting just about every 10 minutes for the last 8+ hours....don't you have anything better to do....and isn't this thread about Korea?!?!?!
Article II, Section 2, Clause 1, of the Constitution, under the Pardon Clause. The clause says the President “shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment. - period end
The only racist I see in this whole thread is Proud Liberal. Questions for you Proud Liberal: Are all white people racists because they are white? Have you ever met a white person who was not a racist? Are all conservatives racists? Even those who are African-American, Hispanic and Asian?
Grey I guessed you missed the meme that was posted. I married white man. So you are wrong.
What I don’t get is why you feel that others should be able to circumvent the process when you went through it legally
I am speaking for the immigrants. Get treated poorly by the so-called president and his cronies I'm not sure how that is being racist. I have been attacked by my English on here and for being an immigrant. So now I'm not racist at all but these people who are attacking me are they think like Trump which is racist
these people have no place to go they're getting killed in her home country their children are starving. They come here and their children get locked in cages and are being snatched from them they need our help. If you were in this position would you want the country that you were going to to help you? Think about being in their position and what you would want done. It's horrible situations like I said I have stories that are just mind-blowing and I would love to meet you and share this information with you over a cup of hot coffee. And Trump with his tax scam I just making the rich richer. Like I said I want to help these people or being kicked out of their homes out of their homelands with nothing but the filthy clothes on her back. Their family members are getting killed their children are hungry they have no place to go just think about it I am done for tonight I'm going to hold my children closer tonight and it's time to retire and go to bed. But please don't make fun of my English I bored very very hard to learn this language I graduated height right High School GED and put myself through college. I've done a lot and I worked hard and pass citizen test. Just things to think about before you open your mouth to degrade immigrants after all the Native Americans were here first something to think about good night
The Yale, you say, Patriotism is all about spirit. To fight for your country no matter what. If that's true, please explain why Bill Clinton and Barack Obama didn't serve. Oh that's right, Clinton received a college deferment and Obama was too busy to enlist because he was running the black militant programs in Chicago.
Ok then let’s reset - why do you feel that people
Have an inalienable right to enter this country based on whatever atrocities are occurring in their home country? Why is anyone that does not agree with your obviously self admitted biased view get labeled as being a racist? Why is trump
A racist?
You’ve been provided facts and imperical evidence where Trump does not act in this manner as well as evidence that you’re using this label to further your personal agenda.
Change my view. Hold your kids close because you’re lucky to be In the greatest nation om the world. You immigrated here because of that fact. Enjoy the freedoms that our forefathers provided for you. we as Americans deserve to protect what we have created - you included.
Yale provided you sources. Holding my kids because some kids are being torn away from from parents and put in cages. I been attacked on here for being here by trump supporters look back at terrible meme. Why is trump not help in pr..still no power. Good night
I want you to say your opinion. Do you support President Trump pardoning himself if the Mueller investigation concludes that he is guilty of a crime related to election meddling? I'm not asking if you think he's allowed to, I'm asking if you would support the president if that happened. Everyone on here is so quick to say that Democrats stick together no matter what, so is this something you would stand by the president on?
Sorry you feel attacked but you hold a view which is not substantiated - have a good night
PL, minor correction to your comment. People crossing our border are not immigrants they are illegal aliens. Crossing our border without permission is illegal and being in our country without proper permissions makes one an alien. Hence the term illegal alien. Many of these people are either dragging children with them or sending the children on alone. This in itself is illegal as it amounts to child endangerment. A US citizen would be jailed for simply leaving a their child home alone let alone subjecting them to potential rape, assault, and even murder in their attempt to enter our country illegally. Also, under international law, those persons seeking asylum are to do so in the first free county they enter. In the case of those from Central/ South America the first country is Mexico not the United States.
I probably dis liked Obama as much as you people, don't care for Trump. I did not get as upset as you people do, because there is nothing you can do about. Obama went around the world apologizing for Americas actions, He never put his hand over his heart, and never whore a lapel Flag, as most Americans do. Thats where the football players got there kneeling from. Mid America noticed and MAGA. was born. There are just as many RINOs as Dems. in the swamp so he has to work around them, Politicians are not a place to look for virtue. Just look at the action of the FBI, JOD,and CIA leadership. Neal Goursh was his first main accomplishment. Maybe he will get another judge that can read the Constitution and abide by it. May you all have peace in your heart.
“Why won’t you let anyone from a terrible country come into the USA?” “Why won’t trump help PR?” Why do we have to help anyone? Can we worry about taking care of our own country?
Our roads, airports, electric power grid infracstructure are all terrible and way behind the rest of the world. We can’t be daddy for every poor soul out there and I actually wish we could. Liberals do not have a monopoly on compassion and I care about other human beings but it’s foolish to think we can help every person from every war-torn or impoverished country. I’m not being racist or mean or elitist. I’m being practical.
Proud liberal "Why is trump not help in pr..still no power"
What a crock, we have spent billions on aid, and more than 99% have power. Stop getting your news from sensational headlines.
Denis “Anyone else on their second tub of popcorn?”
Popcorn? Popcorn is white... why do you like white popcorn so much? You’re racist!
Mark Mc. I don’t blame President Obama for not meeting with Kim. Had he done so, he would have been AGAIN accused of being by terrorist lover, an America hater, a commie, etc.
DonaldTrump LOL your comment, it does not make any sense. I guess you did not read the part where I have white husband and my children are half white biracial. I don't support any races who support Trump in a hideous racist policies not just from white people anybody regardless of race who supports Trump's princess hideous policies I don't agree with not just white people. You need to read the full form to realize that I have white people in my family.
Proud liberal....you came on here first running your keys all over that every trump supporter is a fool and a plethera of other offensive names including bigot and racist........when someone responds to you about your actions......you suddenly were the one that was attacked.....your kidding me right?
The sky is hazy...but not hazy enough to hide your hypocrisy.
"I would love to share stories over a cup of coffee about what these poor people are going through their children are dying their family members are getting kidnapped and killed by these horrible people in the war zone countries"
And this is america's responsibility.... how?
All this nonsense can be boiled down to this:
Don't come here illegally. It makes you a criminal by default. If you bring your children, or SEND your children, it is YOU that is responsible for their fate, not the current sitting US President.
"I just read an article where veterans that' they're being deported after serving this country horrible ."
IMO, military service- HONORABLE military service- should earn you automatic citizenship.
"I am learning a lot and now see trump is worse then I thought."
Worse than YOU thought? Not possible.
"So what's your opinion on Trump pardoning himself if the Mueller investigation proves that he committed a crime?"
How about we stick to things that have ACTUALLY happened instead of hypotheticals?
"these people have no place to go they're getting killed in her home country their children are starving. They come here and their children get locked in cages and are being snatched from them they need our help."
Again: not America's responsibility, and don't come here illegally.
America does not have the resources to take in every person on the planet that is "in a troubled area." It's not that simple. We can't just print money and build them their own towns across the fruited plains. You need to learn about something called REALITY, because you're living in some hypothetical, utopian fairy-land in your mind.
"The Yale, you say, Patriotism is all about spirit. To fight for your country no matter what. If that's true, please explain why Bill Clinton and Barack Obama didn't serve. Oh that's right, Clinton received a college deferment and Obama was too busy to enlist because he was running the black militant programs in Chicago."
Of course DEMOCRATS don't count- do your homework.
"PL, minor correction to your comment. People crossing our border are not immigrants they are illegal aliens. Crossing our border without permission is illegal and being in our country without proper permissions makes one an alien. Hence the term illegal alien. Many of these people are either dragging children with them or sending the children on alone. This in itself is illegal as it amounts to child endangerment. A US citizen would be jailed for simply leaving a their child home alone let alone subjecting them to potential rape, assault, and even murder in their attempt to enter our country illegally. Also, under international law, those persons seeking asylum are to do so in the first free county they enter. In the case of those from Central/ South America the first country is Mexico not the United States."
EXACTLY!!!! Too much damned common sense in that comment!!!
And +1 to Old Gent's comment above, as usual, he's got it 100% right.
Proud Liberal - you didn't answer any of the questions I asked of you, not a single one, again the only racist on here is you. You said that President Trump is a racist. Do you have any proof or just angry invective? You said that all his supporters are racist because he is a racist. Again, do have any proof of this? You haven't provided a single shred of evidence to support your outrageously invalid claims. I asked you if people of color who supported the president are racists. You avoided answering that question. Still waiting on your answer. You cant have it both ways.
Anyhow, this whole discussion is off course, because Proud Liberal, your president had a historical and successful diplomatic visit with the leader of North Korea and you should be acknowledging that simple fact and give your president the credit he is due for this significant accomplishment
"Do your homework," why didn't trump serve....No, he got a medical deferment although he is not sure which foot was the problem...And then we have Bush who never served
Jimmy Carter United States Navy Lieutenant (navy) Served during World War II as a midshipman at the United States Naval Academy. Sea duty and stateside service 1946–1953 during the Korean War.
Gerald Ford United States Naval Reserve Lieutenant Commander World War II (1942–1945); combat on USS Monterey, discharged in 1946.
Richard Nixon United States Naval Reserve Commander World War II (1942–1945); earned two battle stars for service in the Pacific.
Lyndon B. Johnson United States Naval Reserve Commander[2] World War II. Received Silver Star after observation mission in which aircraft he was on came under Japanese attack.[3] This was Johnson's only observation flight, and Johnson was the only individual on it to receive an award, leading many historians to conclude that Douglas MacArthur presented it to secure Johnson's political influence.[4]
John F. Kennedy United States Naval Reserve Lieutenant (navy) Served in combat during World War II. Received the Navy and Marine Corps Medal and the Purple Heart.
Dwight D. Eisenhower United States Army General of the Army Stateside service during World War I. Served as Supreme Allied Commander in Europe during World War II (1942–1945). Entire active-duty career spanned from 1915 until 1969 (excepting his two terms as president).
Harry S. Truman[5] Missouri Army National Guard,
United States Army,
United States Army Reserve Colonel Stateside National Guard service in Missouri (1905–1911); served in combat in France during World War I (1917–1918); transferred to Army Reserve and retired in 1953.
Franklin D. Roosevelt
As we may note from this list only two presidents where Republican.... " Of course REPUBLICANS don't count"- do your homework.
citychick citychick....
Eisenhower was also a republican. Must be that "new math" they're teaching....
I won't go into the whole "the democrat party of yesteryear is NOT the democrat party of today" thing... true as it is... some of us have actually STUDIED history, as opposed to just listing a bunch of names republican vs democrat. *I* would have voted for some of those democrats.
"Anyhow, this whole discussion is off course, because Proud Liberal, your president had a historical and successful diplomatic visit with the leader of North Korea and you should be acknowledging that simple fact and give your president the credit he is due for this significant accomplishment"
That's all it is; the snowflakes are falling again... can you imagine how "cold" it's going to get if the republicans gain seats in the mid-terms? And if Trump gets re-elected? Get out your parkas!
And this is why the Democrats will not get regain the house or senate... You have people like Proud Liberal and Yale using the Nancy Pelosi playbook saying the sky is falling...
nice list citychick, how about Herbert Walker Bush? Isn't he a decorated vet from WWII ? What about Teddy Roosevelt? And of course Ulysses S. Grant? looks like your source may have an axe to grind with republicans. Can't deny that Bill Clinton is a draft dodger who didn't inhale.
But to your point, where are the great democrats like JFK today? Your party has moved so far to the left it is actually standing in foul territory and is actively rejecting those democrats who are more centrist and more balanced in their views on American exceptionalism, border security, business, and the economy. Where are those Democrats today? You guys are sorely missing the likes of JFK and FDR and Harry Truman.
Out of the list I gave you for your edification ,,,,Carter (d), Ford (d) Nixon (r) Kennedy (d) Eisenhower (R) Truman (d) and Roosevelt (d).....I was just going back to the end of WW11... Herbert Walker Bush was not a president, stay on topic GreyHawk ( Like your name)....Do not deny that Clinton dodged the draft, but trump lied at least Clinton is a Rhodes Scholar I am not sure trump even made it out of college.You guys are sorely missing men like Eisenhower....
Republican, never said Eisenhower was a democratic, please do not miss quote me....that leaves us with 2 presidents who served since WW11 who are Republican...That's a fact....
Thanks for the laugh citychick. You must have been asleep from 1988-1992. There is a reason why they call them Bush 41 and Bush 43. Also, Ford was a Republican.
Rosie I notice Strangerdanger has been missing. Is this forum being trolled by Proud Liberal? Maybe he did a Bruce/Caitlyn and transitioned?
It's funny but PL doesn't answer any substantive questions and keeps repeating the lie about kids in cages. No matter how many times you repeat a lie, it doesn't make it true.
"Maybe he did a Bruce/Caitlyn and transitioned?"
Or an iHob? LOL
No way, PL is nowhere near SD's skill level of obfuscate & confuse LOL. Give SD some credit.
So nice to have a president who is putting America's interest first.
Glad to see that there are negotiations between us and North Korea after so many decades.
Perhaps now we will be able to stop paying for patrolling the wall between North and South Korea.
Maybe we could put some of that money back into the budget to build and Patrol our own border wall and keep MS-13 from coming here again after we clear them out of here.
Trump has made many wonderful changes.
Imagine how many more good things could be accomplished if the GOP and the negative newscasters would stop trying to attack everything he says or does...
Older Mom Trump already declared NK is NO Longer a Nuclear Threat. If he declared it,we should all believe it
BlueYale Herein lies the insanity - there are people who are rooting for Kim Jong-un to back out of this deal or keep building up his nuclear weapon arsenal, and keep testing just to make our president look bad .
even worse rooting for our economy to tank, in their effort to get rid of Trump.
Bill Maher last Friday "we need a recession, and we need a recession fast. Sorry, if people get hurt, but we need a recession to get rid of Trump."
De Niro at the Tony Awards with the F-bomb a couple of times and getting a standing ovation for it.
Skippy,
I will go the WH or trump tower and kissed trump's feet the day UN inspection team declares NK destroyed all its nukes. If that happened, he needs to get 1000 Nobel Prizes.
Trump did a good job for atleast bringing NK to the table but the denuclearization process has not started yet and its premature to declare NK is no longer a nuclear threat.
Trump did promised Kim NK of development of hotels,condos and real estates. Are we as tax payers ready for our govt to pour in aid to invest there? All i am saying is he did a good job,better than other presidents on NK,but he should just shut up praising Kim and NK and must be careful that we don't give away too much for little baby steps they take.
Here ya go - no playing politics here eh: https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2018/06/12/fox-news-obama-trump-coverage.cnn
4catmom Both CNN and foxnews play pro and anti trumps. Nothing new! Bill maher was wrong to wish for recession and deNiro should have not cursed and used "F" word but should have said his views more thoughtfully on policies that he don't like as he is entitled to that. Everyone-celebs,news pundits,comedians;republicans or democrats : pro and anti-trump have used derogatory words to slam both obama and trump, and this should stop. Debate is good but not name calling and wishing bad for common people.
I am still wary of Kim Jong-un actually delivering but if Trump gets nuclear inspection teams in NK by October it will be huge win for the world.
with the MSM the way it is I ignore the words and just pay attention to actions.
1. there was a meeting
2. NK released hostages
3. US and SK halted war games operations.
future committed deliverables:
1.Korean war remains returned to US
2. dismantling of missile launch sites (quid pro quo for halting war games.)
left to discuss:
1. Kim Jong-un commits to a date where nuclear inspectors can show up and prove the nuclear program is dismantled , then the US will elevate some of the sanctions.
2. Kim Jong-un will allow some external businesses to operate in NK and get a taste for capitalism and trade with SK. they enjoy prosperity and this is check against China.
Capitalism a gateway drug to democracy. While the press and the left may laugh at McDonalds and hotels in NK, that and Levis brought down the USSR and does more to ensure peace then all the nuclear inspections and military operations combined.
"Capitalism a gateway drug to democracy. While the press and the left may laugh at McDonalds and hotels in NK, that and Levis brought down the USSR and does more to ensure peace then all the nuclear inspections and military operations combined."
There's truth in that. Did you guys see the movie the WH produced to basically "show" North Korea why it would be a good idea to play ball with the US/join the rest of the civilized world?
Brilliant diplomacy. I've seen CNN calling this Trump "playing" Kim, but it's not- because it's TRUE. This TRULY IS an opportunity for North Korea... and NK will be a better place, and the world will be a better place for it, and Trump AND Kim will be the heroes for it.
Brilliant.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2LHJEhpmO4
Yes, trump did a very good job on getting american prisoners released. That's a goodwill gesture from NK. I don't have prooblem with Trump halting war games,there's nothing lost if we halt it.And if NK returns remains of US and allies soldiers,that would be big achievement for trump with their families and the countries. And the only major concern is hugh investment in NK. Which country will invest there is big test in itself. When Kim's family has imposed so many restrictions on their people and they are so poor and on top of that brainwashed for generations. China and SK already invest there in small sectors I guess. Its unlikely that Europeans or any other country will invest there because NK is a totally different species altogether- their leaders live in paranoia and apprehension with the entire population brainwashed. I would say only time would tell. But only main thing we should be concerned about is complete denuclearization with UN inspection. If that is achieved, trump deserves every credit for that.
JR: Fox also said so many things on obama. So, CNN is for Obama and Foxnews is for trump. We all know that. So, i guess we are done with fox,cnn here
"So, i guess we are done with fox,cnn here"
Actually, no: you should go the OTHER way: listen to ALL the sources at your disposal, and cross-reference them with each other. Removing information sources only makes one more ignorant. You have to include ALL sources, seek ALL information on an issue, so that when you form an opinion, it's an educated one.
"Actually, no: you should go the OTHER way: listen to ALL the sources at your disposal, and cross-reference them with each other. Removing information sources only makes one more ignorant. You have to include ALL sources, seek ALL information on an issue, so that when you form an opinion, it's an educated one."
Funny, well do you JR? Do you practice what you preached? Forget NK topic only,do you listen to ALL sources? MSM or fox makes your "All sources". I don't think you have or intend to. If you want to talk about CNN,please start a separate thread.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/12/investment-guru-mark-mobius-says-north-korea-presents-a-tremendous-opportunity.html
NK has $6Trillion in untapped natural resources they can’t get out of the ground and a highly disciplined cheap work force - expect to see a Foxconn fab for your iPhone there in the future
Skippy,
If NK prosper without the nukes, everyone will be happy and trump should take credit for destroying the nukes. A NK without nukes is world peace because a war in korean peninsula will draw in china,us and russia like it did in korean war. And Asia will have devasting effect if nuke is ever dropped on Korea. Thats why I believe trump is doing a good job in getting NK to meet at the table. An industralised NK is good for NK and its people to value democracy and their rights. Foxconn or mc donalds or steel or other industries all are welcome as long as that kim don't become paranoid about his own safety and start isolating its people again. Lets hope they choose prosperity instead of war
CNN's viewership continues to drop. You can thank the likes of Van Jones who called Trump supporters racists the night Trump won with his "White Washing" monologue. That was the last time I tuned into that station. I was disgusted after listening to that moron... Chris Cuomo and Don Lemon do a good job of pushing people away too.
MetsMan: Pls don't watch it. You don't have to. Pls use your remote to switch the channels. People who don't like fox do that,so you should do the same about cnn.
The topic North Korea is turning into a discussion on CNN,so sad! NK is more important than CNN and fox folks.
Metsman, I agree with your van jones comments. “What we saw tonight was a whitewashing!” Uh, really? The same white people in the same areas of the same midwestern swing-states voted for Obama twice. The same people. Within a 4 year span they all suddenly turned hate-filled and racist? That’s why Hillary lost? That was a surreal moment. I couldn’t believe he was saying it. Hillary was the worst candidate the Democratic Party had ever fielded. She represented to most of America the furthest we were going to let this PC/socialist/leftist experiment go. Oh, and she called half of the population “deplorable.”
lets remember - NK happened as a vestige of WW II. Korea was annexed by Japan as a colony (1910-1945). we turned around after WW II split the country at the 38th parallel and gave half to the USSR and let the 2 Koreas wage war for 3 years.. meanwhile we engaged in heavy Ariel bombardment of NK during the war. The only investment in the country was via the USSR and China - well we all know what happened to the USSR.
Skip ahead -nearly 100% of their GDP is dedicated to military spending - they have a 1.2 million member cadre military and 7.7 million reserves, it's time to close this loop and bring them into the fold beating china to the investment punch.
https://www.fpri.org/article/2017/04/nations-prosper-case-north-south-korea/
BlueYale the difference is Fox has 3 times as many people watching them than CNN. I wonder why... And I have used my controller. I choose not to turn on fake news. They showed their true colors since the election. Their heads have exploded multiple times.
That being said, the likes of CNN will continue to bash Trump even if he achieves what no other President has. Peace on the Korean peninsula.
"Funny, well do you JR?"
Why would I recommend it if I did not do it myself? I have even USED CNN as a link source on this forum, because I know you lefties can't disagree with it LOL.
"The topic North Korea is turning into a discussion on CNN,so sad! NK is more important than CNN and fox folks."
I agree! So what do you think of the NK agreement, BlueYale? What do you think of Trump accomplishing more (so far) than any other president regarding NK?
Metsman :I understand cnn and other MSM viewers think same about foxnews that fox is faux news,trump personal propaganda mouthpiece. Fox viewers think cnn and msm are fake news. Well this will go on and on
What can we do? Either unsubscribe cnn or change channel. I would advise Mr trump to do the same. Why waste tweets on fakenews? I mean CNN get all the attention worldwide every time he tweets about them. That will be headlines worldwide. Why give them that attention if you don't like it and it's fake?
JR: I said trump achieved so far in releasing americans,convincing NK to return the remain of allies soldiers and bringing Kim himself to the table to talk. The main point of NK- rest of denuclearization is to been seen. Its a long road ahead. If you want my opinions on NK, its all over this thread. I am signing off.
Switch off to, unsubscribe or change channel. Plain and simple
I'm pretty sure you'll find a hell of a lot more bullsh*t news articles from CNN than you will see from Fox. That's why their ratings continue to plummet.
How is "Fake News" fake when you hear it straight from the mouth or ever-changing stories and Tweets of him?
"I'm pretty sure you'll find a hell of a lot more bullsh*t news articles from CNN than you will see from Fox. That's why their ratings continue to plummet."
While I agree there is truth to that statement... the people didn't vote for Trump because HE started calling the MSM fake news, they voted for him because the people ALREADY knew that, Trump just said what they were thinking/feeling. Ditto on many of his campaign promises. That's how people get elected. CNN and leftist cronies (like Mauer, Kimmel, and Behar) try to convince people that Trump himself came up with the term "fake news", to use that as some kind of a "weapon" against him (NONE of their "weapons" have worked yet!), but he did not coin the phrase. It was in the lexicon before Trump used it.
there are so many crazy stories that come up, it seems like every other day!! one tops the next out of his mouth, to keep your ears off the last one, about what the new one is. It is called "Wagging the dog" :
The phrase 'Wag the Dog' is used to indicate that attention is purposely being diverted from something of greater importance to something of lesser importance. Example of Use: “He's wagging the dog to keep you from discovering the truth about the car wreck.”Jan 1, 2013.
at least with CNN, you hear the voice, you see the tweets, and it's concrete.
....does FOX even play the wacko occurences by audio or hard copy pictures? withholding.
Just wanted to bump this up as I enjoy reading comments from people suffering from severe cases of TDS (Trump Derangement Syndrome).
#MAGA
I love the comment by that idiot Acosta on CNN calling Trump and Kim a bromance. You don't get more deranged than that. What is wrong with people...
How about Acosta yelling stuff to Kim during the talks. Like the talks are not sensitive enough
"I love the comment by that idiot Acosta on CNN calling Trump and Kim a bromance. You don't get more deranged than that. What is wrong with people..."
I guess that means that Obama and the Muslim Brotherhood must have been having a bromance, judging by their visits to the White House...
Obama and the Muslim Brotherhood was more than a bromance. It was a Caligula-like orgy!
This is for P LIBERAL....
I'm sorry I'm unable to call you that. For some reason I feel the name doesn't do you justice.
I for one an a Trump supporter and as you will find I am neither a hillbilly nor am I uneducated. Perhaps and this is just a suggestion, only my opinion, that possibly you could at least write one sentence that you refrain from calling Republicans names, using vulgarity, and not be so indignant with people that don't agree with you. Possible with less opinion and more facts in your rebuttal?
I love a good debate, but I also demand the facts. Now what do I mean by facts?... Well, typically a "fact" includes the normal who, what, when, where, and how information. With a very well thought out rebuttle answer. Like for example President Trump. or in your case the one that didnt win.
At any rate i really tried to follow your posts and understand exactly what it was you were trying to say. Unfortunately you lost me with the "dreams of grandeur" you were trying to pass off as facts. I believe, now again this is only my thought, that perhaps if you studied the history of politics, presidential elections, as well as all of the U.S. presidents. Especially Lincoln, I believe he will surprise you. This one area of knowledge is the most exciting it is called what "Democracy" in our great nation actually stands for
.Then more than likely you will be better equipped to respond to the dozens of people that were just as confused as I by the unsubstantiated facts you gave only supporting them by your uninformed opinions. :)
charmer I moved on and so should you. I refuse to waste anymore time on this thread. Anybody who disrespects our friend and Canada but says North Korea's leader is an intelligent man and Pat's on the back... I will not support. The North Korean leader murders people for watching Hollywood movies while the so-called president gave attitude to the Canadian leader who is our Allied and friend. Something is seriously wrong right there again I'm not wasting my time on this thread because it's useless. Time to move on. We will have to agree to disagree. I have no respect for Trump the way he treats people and the way that he's screwing the American people and the treatment of others. It's crazy and insane heartbreaking and ridiculous. I'm not wasting my time on this particular thread.
Nothing to do with the conversation at hand but this is what I have to go through as an immigrant. One day I went to lunch with my family my children which is 4 of them. I had this horrible horrible gentleman tell me in front of my children that Trump is going to send us back two or wherever we came from and that this restaurant does not take food stamps. I'm not saying all Trump supporters are like this at all before you lose your hat but this is what me and my fellow immigrants go through this has nothing to do with the conversation but I want to bring attention to what we have to deal with. And on a side note I do not accept any assistance as a or anything of that nature and unfortunately this is one incident that I've had encountered throughout the years. I am just enjoying time with my children in my family minding my own business
Move on already then!!!!!!
I am moving on...not wasting any more time
trump trump trump
I am moving on...not wasting any more time
trump trump trump
I am moving on...not wasting any more time
You just cannot and will not give up your false claims which you think are "facts"
I was responding to charmer thank you very much and I decided to share a story that was an inappropriate from a trump supporter. Because Trump shows horrible intentions to immigrants that people thinks it's okay because he's the leader of the country
While Justin "Sticky Eyebrows " Trudeau is PM, Canada is not our ally. He, like Merkel, is a traitor to his own people. I am thankful that Trump sees them for what they are and will not allow them to continue to take advantage of the US.
Jym so let me get this right you think the North Korean leader is a great person like Trump said?
Well charmer you are wrong. You are very wrong. You know my kind? And I did vote !! Heck yeah I voted I voted for the Democrat Party. We need to go Democratic way. There's no way in heck I would not vote and have trouble with his crazy loonies and office. And I am illegal and I do have children so that just shows you that you're wrong. Your name is charmer you should change it because there's nothing Charming about you. And I know you're kind to your party the one who are the silly Trump ad that was made in China LOL seriously you don't know anything about me and my family except that I'm standing up for immigrants and how they're treated
I'll even show you my paperwork just to prove you wrong. It's people like you who make the world a sad place. Pardon my mistake I am legal and if you would like to meet in a public place I would love to show you my paperwork
PS S... Youre English has improved drastically in the last 30 min. Ghost writer? lol
@PL " And I am illegal and I do have children so that just shows you that you're wrong. "
Ok....so you are illegal?
No to be honest with you I found out on my phone you can do the text to talk. But seriously if you're interested if you would like to meet in a public place I would love to show you my paperwork to prove you wrong because I have nothing to hide. So your allegations are false
And I will share my story with you as well as the many other stories I know from other immigrants. I would love to share it with you and others were interested
Hit girl You know what the more I've been thinking about it I want to make a public apology for my curse words and my name calling I still don't like or agree with Trump or the people who support him but I should have held back on my curse words and name-calling so you know what I do a publicly apologize I think is the word that I'm looking for apologize? I have to look that word up. I still feel like Trump should be doing more for immigrants but I should have said it in a non name-calling way and I am sorry for that
Pl- After a few days of thought, I have come to the conclusion you don't know any better. As you say you have only been in this country since Obama was in office. You have no "real" knowledge of our culture. You are comparing Trump to Obama because that's all you know. You haven't lived worked or voted through any prior US Presidents. So everything you read you believe true because you have not experienced years and years of freedom and democracy. If you had, you would not present yourself as you do. There are many PL on this site. But none come across the way you do with your words. Yours are very nasty and vulgar. I don't think that's you talking. But I think it's what you read and assume it's acceptable by society to be so vulgar towards a sitting president and your fellow citizens. You have every right not to support Trump and I have no plans on trying to change your mind. If you want others to hear you and respect your thoughts and feelings, do so in your own words and don't copy the way others express themselves. It's very ugly.
Aunt read up top I did Apologize for my vulgar and name-calling I'm just very passionate I guess and when people say that I'm here illegally when it's not true kind of makes me angry but again I did apologize for name-calling and curse words
"And I am illegal and I do have children" what happened to your offer to fax documents? guess the guy in the restaurant was correct.
" I'm standing up for immigrants" - no your demanding us to ignore your criminal behavior and that of those like you. If an American citizen commits a federal crime they are going to prison without their kids why should people coming into the country illegally get better treatment
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1325
Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
build the wall
No, PL, that's not what I said. I am not a fan of Kim Jong Un. But neither do I trust Trudeau, Merkel, et.al. I don't see everything and everyone in the black and white terms like that. But I was and continue to be disgusted by the way the US became the world bank and toilet. I appreciate some of the changes Trump has made to fix that. Unfortunately, no one is perfect. But there was no way I could see to vote for Hillary and I hope that we never become like modern Europe and Canada.
I offered to fax no one took me off on that where offer I would prefer to meet in public though so I get my personal information not all over
I even have a passport! Could not do that if you are illegal. But seriously if you feel the need I would love to meet up with you show you my paperwork or my passport and I would like to have a conversation about my life and the life of my fellow friends if your interested let me know we can meet over coffee my treat. The laws have to be changed my personal feeling what are you doing this weekend you want to meet for coffee? I would love to get to meet some friends and share my story and show you my passport.
Thank you for your support reasonable I've noticed that too but I'm so used to getting made fun of by people that it doesn't even bother me much anymore but you're right. It saddens me that people think that I'm not here legally because I'm not like them but I really am and I took the citizen test and I probably know more from taking that test that many people but thank you for your support
"I refuse to waste anymore time on this thread."
You keep using that word, "refuse". I do not think it means what you think it means.
I will meet anybody in person for over a cup of coffee my treat charmer Skippy since you two seem to be the most not believing me let's meet up this weekend for coffee. I can show you that I'm legal that I'm not taking any assistance and that him and normal human being just like you with thoughts and feelings. And have the same goals that they just want to raise their family and a nice place and have their friends safe and have their basic needs met just like you do for your family. Skippy you said that I didn't offer to fax anything I'm telling you I am inviting you so you can see who I am so I can prove to you and charmer that you are wrong. I would love to share my stories with anybody who's interested you would just be amazed you really would and I think you would gain a lot of knowledge. Open invitation for anybody coffee on me
To answer Proud Liberal why Trump isn’t kissing our allies butts… That’s because they screw us in trade agreements. He wants something fair and they’re all crying about it like spoiled children. He’s being nice to Kim because he’s trying to get the guy to get rid of his nukes. How soon people forget he was calling him little rocket man and said NK would be obliterated if they made a bad move. You know what, so far that rhetoric has worked out. Kim decided he wanted to negotiate. So we’ll see where this goes, but if Kim doesn’t follow through don’t expect Trump to be nice.
Jefferson that was the case but when charmer and Skippy came back on saying these horrible horrible horrible things and they are truly truly truly wrong and I would like to prove it to them so they learn and so they can see that they are wrong and educate them that is all
Everyone take a deep breath, or better yet take break and go out and enjoy the sunshine for at least a few minutes? It's a really beautiful day out. Political views aren't reasons for anyone to 'hate' someone else, or get that worked up over. It's JUST politics... nothing more. We all need to remember that sometimes... maybe?
(Just my 2 cents.)
Rebecka If you say you’re legal I believe you - you said you were not hence the post. If you came here legally more power to you
+1 Rebecka. But to be fair and truthful, PL did start this whole mess, with her potty mouth.
Jefferson did you not read my apology. And how about the people who attacked me saying that I'm here illegally when I'm not. And when I try to prove it to them all of a sudden they disappear? Like Skippy said that I offered to fax but I didn't fax well in order to fax something over I would need a fax number correct? Or I prefer to meet in person to make sure my information is not getting around so I am really just proving them wrong. And there was a horrible memes about me being an immigrant posted and also I've been attacked and accused of being on public assistance? So what do you have to think about that is it because I'm an immigrant that those things are okay? Do you have done to me
I may have had a potty mouth but I've also been verbally attacked with pictures of immigrants and horrible things saying I'm illegal and I am on assistance when I'm not none of those things are true
Thank you Skippy yes my post I made an error and they won't let you edit unless it was last post on the thread that's why I had to State it in my second thread
I said you STARTED it, which you did. Kind of hard to have sympathy for someone having stones thrown at them when they were the first one throwing.
This firestorm was of your making. Next time, maybe think before you type to ensure you aren't starting another one? Just friendly advice.
I think delusions exist because perception is encompassing reality.
Take; for example, the POTD. When he says everything is great or he gives it a 10, what do you think he means? Does he like to fight? Does he like chaos? Is it great because it means he's getting his way, maybe messing with his enemies? Does it mean it's great because he ruined something he doesn't like, in order to rebrand it and to have it done his way?
Maybe great to him, is building a mountain of corpses to rule upon his way. Or, maybe not.
Point is, you can't know unless you use Quantum Physics techniques to measure his electrical brain patterns that operate on a quantum level, and translate that quantum entanglement going on in the brain into something that could be interpreted into language.
In my perspective, he's going against a group of people that gave him a hard time. Doing business with people that were being punished by these groups. Punishing people that were probably in his view stealing with all these "bad deals".
It reminds me of the cycle of societies. It's almost done exactly like farming on plots of land.
@JR - PL apologized. You have to respect anyone who has the courage to say publicly, "Sorry, I was wrong." Forgive and forget, I say, and go get some sun. Now. All of you. ;-)
LOL you are right about one thing Jefferson about not swearing my first post that's the only thing I drive my husband about is sports teams he likes the Yankees I like the Mets so we have friendly competitions about that LOL we do have friendly bad son whose team wins the other person has to do the dishes
Liberal,
As a working mother in this country I worry about "home" first. The children and adults that live here are my concern. Not helping illegals. I see homeless people, I see my child's friends come to my home to eat because they are low on food. I see people losing their jobs, I see homes being repossessed, I see my child's classmates in shelters..All here in my backyard... So no, your story didn't enlighten me because I don't care.
If, which i doubt, but lets say if you are legal why not do everything in your power to accumulate yourself and your family to the ways of the USA.
You have been here quite sometime, but yet you haven't learned to read or write English, what have you done for your community, do your children know English, do they know the history? I'm saying this because all I hear from you is Trump this and Trump that? You're facts are not facts, Remember we here in America value knowledge.
I tried in my first post to speak to you in kind, but for me I am no longer charming when I hear someone put down my country and say they only care about illegals. If you care that much perhaps you should go to wherever you are from and help at home. That is unless my country offers too much for free for you and you would rather bash my president and my people. You are not a citizen, I dont need to see your green card. Marriage doesn't make you a citizen so save it for someone who cares.
I am not, will not, and have never been a follower who is politically correct. Why do I have to hide the fact that No, I dont give a rats behind about any criminals.
I lived overseas many years ago and my family didnt have the luxury of having time to learn the customs. One month you learn the language or you were ignored. They didnt bend for us, we accumulated to them or else we were screwed.
She apologized alright... on her 54th post. LOL
I'll give her the benefit of the doubt... future actions will speak louder than words...
Not that I feel like I owe you an explanation but I will share with you. I'm not in any assistance in fact all three of my older children go to a private school which we pay fully and for. I went through college got my associate's and will be taking more classes in the fall. When my 2 year old is old enough she will also attend the private school that we fully pay for. I was an American citizen before I met my husband so I debunked that yes I learned a new word reading this thread by the way. I volunteer at my churches soup kitchen and before I had my children I worked full-time but now I'm a full-time stay-at-home mother while my husband works full-time and no we do not accept any type of assistance but we do give to Charities locally and monthly we donate to the food pantry. I did take ESL classes before I went to college but as I struggled with some learning issues my English is not perfect and I'm still learning and yes my children know English they were born here and they continue to learn at their prestigious private school. So those horrible allegations you said about me are wrong just to let you know I think I answered all your questions I will go back and reread it though. I teach my children about helping and being kind to others especially the less fortunate and my children give away 10% of their allowance to a charity of their choosing. Monthly so I think I'm doing a good job being American mother.
reasonable....
Apparently you didn't read my first post a few up from that one you showed. Also if you read the post you quoted. It clearly states the reason I chose to speak like that.
Continue to skim the posts knowledge is power... :)
my bad Jefferson I didnt see it until my post posted... No worries Ill go back to my charming self now :)
PL well at least you like the Mets. You get to suffer with me with how bad they are.
charmer,
No no... my post was directed at Yosemite Sam. I should say specifically who I'm talking to...
I wonder if they become close, if KJU will cease from k-illing his own family and staff.
from what I have heard, some of the immigrants get upset with the laws here and how we inforce them. You knew very well before coming into this country of the laws and how we inforce them. It’s been this way for years, it was even worse back then to get in. If you even had so much of a red eye they would not let you come to America, but the laws have changed a lot and made it easier for immigrants to come to the us legally, yet thousands of immigration come here and then complain about how the us is run, no one is making you come to the us illegally, people is doing that on their own accord. Yet I always hear complaints. It’s the immigrants actions, either come here legally and enjoy the American lifestyle or get booted back to where ever you are from, and that’s no ones fault but the illegals that come here. It’s the law, it’s there for a reason, it’s not there for anyone to just think they can go above it. Just by doing that proves how much respect people have for America, little to none. If they just throw this law out the window who is to say they are throwing other laws out the window. And I’m not saying all immigrants come here illegally, many of them do the correct thing and follow the law, but others seem to not know right from wrong and only want to do what they want to do no matter the consequences and then complain about it when it was their decision in the first place
And for the record I am charmers daughter:)
What's going on? Why won't anyone meet with Proud Liberal for coffee?
Isn't this something that we'd like our president to do and most importantly isn't it a civil way, the right thing to do?
positive "Why won't anyone meet with Proud Liberal for coffee?"
Because nobody wants to hear a tyrant of fabricated information and listen to how bad ILLEGAL immigrants are treated? PL's posts clearly showed her mindset....she reads right past any factual information on the forum, I am sure it would be no different person to person so it's not even worth the time.
Maybe because she's not being very nice. How about she drops the racism rhetoric and sounds more reasonable. No one needs third degree burns from her throwing her coffee in their face because she decides to have a breakdown.
Suze It was just a question. Might be surprised how civil people can be when they are not at a keyboard...
It's easier for them to believe what Fox News tells them about immigrants when they don't actually know any
Proud Liberal said she was legal and charmer then proceeded to tell her she should be in jail, she's "seen her kind", that she's on food stamps, given free insurance, and that she somehow was given a free house (that's my favorite).
I wasn’t referring to Proud Liberal but rather your (and others) general comments on how we are anti “immigrant”. I don’t care how nice someone may be, if they are here illegally that’s a crime.
Reasonable....to be fair...PL also claimed (it seems unintentionally) that she was here ILLEGALLY, and that she and her family is on food stamps....just read through the posts
Went through the whole thread, in 7 different posts she states that she's legal, passed a citizen test, etc. and in 1 post she typed she was illegal (assumed to be accidental) and in her next post, corrects the mistake. You really weren't sure?
"Proud Liberal said she was legal and charmer then proceeded to tell her she should be in jail, she's "seen her kind", that she's on food stamps, given free insurance, and that she somehow was given a free house (that's my favorite)."
Which was SO MUCH WORSE than all the crap PL said above (apology or not).
Please. If you're going to dish it out, you have to be willing to take it. No double-standards, despite what you're used to. If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen.
Reasonable I clearly saw she said she’s legal, that isn’t the issue. She’s coming on here calling people who voted for Trump racists. I voted for Trump and I know I’m not racist. I’ve had relationships with women of a different race so I take offense to that. That’s as bad as Hillary calling us all deplorable. How’d that work out for her? The left continues with that rhetoric and people are tired of hearing it because it simply isn’t true. There are people who are racist on both sides. You really think some of the inner city democrats of color aren’t racist at all? Cmon… White people aren’t the only race that can be racist...
Metsman,
Being a Trump voter, probably white, and I'm guessing either a conservative or moderate, you don't have the privilege of being offended.
Yes JeffRep, saying racist remarks is so much worse than calling people out for saying those racist things. Is that really up for debate?
@ "un"Reasonable
If you'd care to read the thread, you'd see PL was the FIRST person calling others racist.
I will not allow the double-standard from you or anyone else go unchallenged.
Reasonable... you are being pretty unreasonable and not following the chain of events properly.
Yawn....okay...North Korea anyone?
Not much more to say... we'll just have to wait and see how it plays out. Fingers crossed.
Oh... Trump HAS been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize, BTW.
http://fortune.com/2018/06/13/trump-nobel-peace-prize/
I am telling you, Metsman, I said it yesterday- StrangerD is "transitioning".
I'm not sure what he's changing into, but it will be a doozy for sure.
Trump. Has been nominated. For the Nobel Peace Prize.
Ok I did not know that. Obviously I don't follow the news that closely.
Oh what the heck, Obama was given it before he even did anything, right? So why not, I suppose...
Holy crap my head is spinning now.
Trump and 330 other people have been nominated thus far this year. Trump was nominated by two anti-immigrant Norwegian politicians. The nomination process is pretty loose, to put it mildly.
ianimal "The nomination process is pretty loose, to put it mildly."
So must the awarding process be, if Obama got it for basically nothing:
"reaching out to the Muslim world"
"promotion of nuclear non-proliferation" (Iran deal, anyone? HAHAHA)
"So must the awarding process be, if Obama got it for basically nothing...."
Couldn't agree more as far as the "peace prize" goes. Physics and Chemistry are the only two I have any interest in.
Loose nomination policy (and awarding policy, in Obama's case) indeed. I would just wish anyone being nominated or awarded (right, left, center or from the moon) would actually have accomplished something before "Nobel Prize" gets thrown around, that's all. Trump may indeed deserve the prize if denuclearization is accomplished, but it's a little bit early to tell!
And he has since passed, but I was actually friends with a Nobel Prize winner. I just think it "cheapens" the prize if people are nominated or awarded without concrete accomplishments.
https://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/medicine/laureates/1998/furchgott-facts.html
RIP Bob. You are remembered by the world for the prize you won, but remembered by those of us who knew you as the most humble, gentle and caring of men.
"Since the 1970s researchers have understood that the role of the innermost layer of blood vessels, the endothelium, goes beyond protection. In 1980 Robert Furchgott showed that the ability of blood vessels to contract or expand disappeared if the endothelium was removed. He concluded that a substance that causes expansion was formed in this layer. In 1986 he and Louis Ignarro, independently of each other, demonstrated that this substance was nitrous oxide (NO). The discovery has made possible new medications, such as those used to treat heart and cardiovascular diseases and impotence."
So, he's ultimately the one to blame for all the boner meds? Lived to the ripe old age of 93, too. A life well lived, it seems.
You got it! (And the same meds perhaps more importantly went to help peoples' heart conditions.). But now all you guys know whom to thank for your Viagra! ;-)
Dodgebaal At least he did something good to get nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize. Kudoes to him for that! And I give him that, if things work out soon and in the long run!
On his bad side of the coin, next to see if he gets fined in any of his many defendant lawsuits, or dethroned , or wind up in jail, or impeached........that is if he doesn't attempt to use a "Criminal Pardon" on himself and a good part of his staff! what the hell is going on in this world?!?? you commit a crime, you pay, you don't pardon yourself, your lawyer, your right-hand man and many others on your staff. Don't make me ill.
some didn't want Hillary, but what the hell did his Apprentice fans vote into Head Office? UGH!!
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/results-congressional-democrats-dangerous-immigration-policies/
Whitehouse responds to separating families at the border with quotes from American families being permanently separated from their loved ones murdered by illegal aliens.
There is no evidence we are treating anyone cruelly. Adults arrive here undocumented and can’t even prove these kids belong to them. The separation of the children from the adults is also for the children’s safety. The kids are getting 3 hots and a cot, along with video games and other donations - which is more than our homeless vets are getting.
"And he has since passed, but I was actually friends with a Nobel Prize winner. I just think it "cheapens" the prize if people are nominated or awarded without concrete accomplishments."
Agreed. But then, we give out "participation trophies" and play sports games without keeping score now.
I wonder when the NFL will quit keeping score?
"Lived to the ripe old age of 93, too. A life well lived, it seems."
it looks like for him the No (Nitric oxide) actually worked well. Good blood flow is good for a long life. (reducing stress also works wonders). Interesting to know and you can increase the level of No (Nitric oxide) in your blood by eating right and using a simple to make stack of vitamin supplements.
No (Nitric oxide) can be increased in the the blood stream by consuming foods that contain a lot of arginine. Asparagus and watermelon both have naturally high levels of arginine, so eat up.
Taking magnesium , zinc and B6 together (you can add an arginine supplement to this as well) will greatly increase the levels of No (Nitric oxide) in the bloodstream,
Weight lifters have known this for a long time, I pass it along to you all for your own use.,
So back on topic - Re: North Korea
We'll see what we see, the ground is set for historic and beneficial, positive changes on the Korean peninsula.
The potential upside of this is too good to ignore or dismiss just because you don't happen to like President Trump. So stop it already with the baseless racism charges, the nonsensical hate filled rants, why not give the guy credit for something positive?
".that is if he doesn't attempt to use a "Criminal Pardon" on himself and a good part of his staff! "
Sigh. He'd have to actually be indicted first, AND found guilty I think, in order to use a Presidential pardon on himself. Let's stick to things that have ACTUALLY HAPPENED instead of hypotheticals.
I mean, hypothetically, Obama could run again, win, and let the Muslim Brotherhood take over America like they have the UK. "what the hell is going on in this world?" LOL
Let me add to that - you can’t indict a sitting president. He would need to be impeached and then charged and then pence would need to do it akin to ford / Nixon. He can however pardon himself in advance but it makes no sense to do so as it’s admitting guilt
How are many of his staff are charged with things and soon/ on trial and/or in jail, and he doesn't know a darn thing about anything at all (!) and what they are charged for? Would they do things w/o his okay, concerning him. pleeze. lol.
He's told sooo many lies, you can't believe any words that come out of his mouth.
I do give him a lot of credit for the NK meeting. Let's hope something(s) come good out of it, now and forever.
"The kids are getting 3 hots and a cot, along with video games and other donations - which is more than our homeless vets are getting."
So why are our homeless vets not getting any help?
Is it the Republicans or the Democrats not helping the vets who put their lives on the line for Americans?
Would these vets been better off having "heel spurs?"
My guess is that we have been involved in a war continuously for the last 27 years and there are an overwhelming amount of veterans - I think both parties need to make veterans a priority they have been treated as disposable by numerous administrations both republican and Democrat. To use a JITism - republicrats have failed them
The law is pretty clear on the matter. The POTD can be sued in civil court within scope of the written law. Congress would have to choose to impeach, which could only be based on written reasons for impeachment as written in the law. And, according to Congress, it would only impeach if members felt like it. So, theoretically a POTD could commit an act which is impeachable, but Congress could choose to ignore/resist it. Though, I don't think Congress could legally choose to overlook the matter.
And, members of the Legislature branch both the House and Senate, should only ever enact the will of the majority of people in their State they represent. So, if you got your party elected, you call your elected official, and tell them you voted for them if you did. And, what you think on matters. Otherwise, they will just do whatever they want or what a Ranking member orders them to carry out or what some wealthy group wants that told them what they thought on matters.
And, in regards to Racism there are billions of people that think they are better than others. Just by them being more than others: more wealthier, more intelligent, more attractive, more religious, being of the proper religion, etc. I would even bet there are people in this world that wouldn't consider you "Human" if your ancestors mixed with Neanderthals.
And, slavery/racism isn't new a concept that only affects one race at a particular moment. It affects every race of people at the same time. It's also deeper than that. It's genetic. To preserve one's genetic code. It's survival.
I don't have a strong viewpoint on racism. When I see people talking about themselves, their race or another race by a color I tend to believe those people are being racist.
Skippy,
Nothing you have noted is an excuse.
Neither party has ever solved this issue and neither party ever will. It costs money.
Bottom line is if you want to keep your body intact you avoid the armed services as a career with "heel spurs" or something like that. Or take the risk.
Don't depend on Republicans nor Democrats to take care of you when you are hurt.
Don't expect the American public to even say nice things about you when you come back, like in Vietnam.
Don't expect after you have been shot down and were a prisoner of war to be respected by the American public like John McCain.
Your chances are 50/50 you will be loved or hated, but your body may now be less than 100%.
It's the choice of the individual. To each their own.
Can one be racist against someone who is on food stamps? I apologize, this would be class discrimination.
Not up on those social terms. Sorry.
Did not know the expectation was that I provide an excuse - you asked me why I believe it is occurring. And you’re correct - we have not had a draft in 45 years - one sure way to avoid issues is not to participate. The military is a means to an end for many and consider the benefits such as free education and social mobility to be worth the rewards, however, we have thousands of not millions of broken disabled veterans who have been abandoned by our government.
Agreed with Hackresident. First it was nobody in campaign met with Russians or Russian ambassador,then it was well they met and it is about Russian adoption and backchannel to to talk about Syria crisis. Now, trump says witchhunt and refuses to be interviewed by Mueller while his own lawyers admitted he wrote Don jnr letter. And now he wants to pardon everyone and himself. He is the epitome of truthfulness and honesty and needs a Nobel prize for most truth spoken.
Most shocking point is today trump and Rudy sent a direct message to Manafort: "Hang in there,don't speak about trump cos I am going to pardon everyone who worked for my campaign prosecuted by Mueller at end of investigstions".
Why would trump and Rudy go all over fox and other news channel to talk about pardoning everyone including manafort on the DAY Manafort goes to jail? It reflects a lot about his innocence. Manafort is being sent to jail for witness tampering and why does trump feel sad about him as he said on TV,why feel sad about a man who work for him(he claims 45days) investigated for fraud and witness tampering that he and his spokeperson cum lawyer Rudy already talking about pardoning Manafort? Next is cohen. Why would trump do that in such a hurry? We all know Manafort can speak on trump tower meeting. Trump says he is a president of law and order. Well law and order don't apply to him and his campaign aides and team. They are above law,anyone in my team goes to jail,I will pardon him(trump says it before the case even begin).
Trump WH aides' and lawyers' declarations timeline order
1)No communication with russia
2)No communication *we are aware of*
3)No *planned or formal* communication
4)Planned meeting but not regarding campaign but adoption of kids
5)Was regarding campaign but no good or useful information
6)Trump never knew about the meeting until it broke in media
7)Colluding with foreign nationals is not crime as it's opposition research
8)Trump dictated letter about Russian kids adoption aka opposition research on HRC with Russians
9) trump can shut down any investigation against him and has authority to directly fire Mueller
20) Even if crime happened, trump has authority to pardon himself or anyone related to his campaign.
This speak of the VOLUME OF THE INNOCENCE PRESIDENT OF USA TO THE WORLD AND ALSO SPEAKS ABOUT OUR COUNTRY WHICH HE TURNED INTO BEST RATED BANANA REPUBLIC THAT HAS BECOME A REALITY SHOW ON Twitter
The Yale: THANK YOU. You say it as it happened, and how it REALLY IS, this bull crap of it all.
Let him be supenoned by every "Mueller" there is for every case and issue against or about him, and let him lie (perjury), or let him tell the truth, which he never will. Would rather keep dodging the kickball with a new Guiliani every few months.
I wouldn't be surprised that he and his lawyer Cohen and Manafort were told by him to not say anything derrogatory and the real truth about what occurred, then they can still get fined and thrown in jail, and then he probably said to them that he will Pardon all of them during the witness tapering phone calls that put Manafort in a holding jail.
We should all commit those crimes (and i'm sure there are Many more we aren't aware of yet until the detectives piece together Cohen's shredded documents and get more documents of what happened in that Russian meeting! (yeah, "a Russian Adoption.....") and then write to Ms. Kim Kardashian to get us out of the slammer with a Pardon!
Again, thank you Yale. I admire that you give the facts and tell it like it is. There's a lot more of us out there, some too afraid and quiet to comment.
Hackresident, you say thank you to The Yale for speaking the truth when what you really mean is for agreeing with your liberal bias. If you two think you know so much about Trump collusion why not apply for a job on Mueller's team where it might do some good instead of wasting your liberal blather here on the Forum.
We will never know the real truth about any of it.
Lawyers stacked on top of lawyers- best liars on the planet.
Let's just say that all of these muppets, democrat and republicans, don't care one bit about the middle class and will send you down the river in a heartbeat.
Both sides are overfilled with skeletons in their closets.
You know where there WAS collusion?
Collusion to rig the democrat primary to keep Bernie from having a chance, even tho he was more popular than Hillary.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41850798
Collusion with the FBI to insure Hillary won the general election.
http://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/392559-inspector-general-report-could-convince-even-the-skeptics-of-fbis-anti
The only collusion revealed by the Muller investigation so far is that high ranking members of the FBI coordinated and worked with elements of the Hillary campaign and Russian intelligence to affect the outcome of a presidential election.
Manafort's indictments predate his association with Trump and have no relation to the 2016 election.
Trump is doing the job he was elected for, and he is getting results and stacking up significant accomplishments on a daily basis. This is good for America.
Too many lies and twists to have the desire to get into his circle, just to get supenoed like Trump's beautiful Model spokeswoman got (I forget her name and her title, but she got the job because she was friends with Ivanka). Now an young, pretty Actress got the job...........
To explain a bit fuller: Manafort's indictments are for alleged actions that predate his association with the Trump campaign and have no relation to the 2016 election.
Manafort got hauled into prison for contacting a witness against him.
Also in fairness, Manafort was a Democrat, working for the Podestas, at the time of the crimes he was originally charged with.
To the extent that the indictment is an attempt to extort him into attacking Trump, the prosecution is politically motivated, unfair, and highly suspect, and should probably be dismissed. But that has nothing to do with his contacting a witness after being charged which is moronic
I think you're finally answering my question skippy. No matter any evidence, indictments, charges, etc. that may arise, Republicans and the right will see any movement against Trump as politically motivated, conspiracy, deep state, Democrats angry they lost, etc.
BC: I never said trump is guilty of anything! Why do you slur people who don't agree with your views as liberals! I am not a liberal,never was! I believe nobody is above the law-NOBODY! DO YOU DISAGREE WITH THAT?
THOSE WORDS I HAVE WRITTEN in my previous comments are ALL spoken words by trump,Rudy and WH aides. My words are last paragraph regarding the banana republic we have become.If anyone wants to refute the 10 timeline as fake can do so with appropriate proofs. I am here for healthy debate,not arguments without democrats and republicans pointers.
Mr trump went on TV to say paul Manafort has been unfairly treated, why would he say it for someone charged with money fraud and witness tampering (nothing to do with trump or Russian collusion issue) on the day Manafort is sent to jail (a man he claimed to be employed for only 45days)?When asked he would pardon him, he didn't say he wouldn't and said it's too early to say anything. But he sent out Rudy on several networks to say trump would pardon everyone related to his campaign at end of MUELLER investigstions! Isn't that interfering with the investigstions?Why would an innocent man so restless to pardon everyone on his team charged by investigators? Is asking this question make me liberal? Or should I just shut up like you and watch the trump show what rudy and he says next and just watch? So are these liberals views too, trying to defame trump? I never mentioned a word about collusion or indicated as such. The timelines and statements(1 to 10) can be verified through videos and press statements given by WH or campaign aides,RUDY and trump.
Don't try to put that excuse of liberal thing down my throat! I never said anything against trump. All I did was quote him! He EXONERATED himself on Twitter and declared he could pardon himself again on Twitter. NEVER HEARD OF AN INNOCENT MAN EXONERATING AND PARDONING HIMSELF BEFORE BEING CHARGED,HAVE YOU?
P.S: Me and HackResident don't need to apply for Mueller's team jobs like most Americans and rest of world get the same informations from Trump's Twitter and interviews on Fox, Rudy's interviews on all TV channels and Sarah Sanders press briefings. These are the information sources over time from where I quoted my previous comments. I didn't know you filter information out from Trump's, Rudy's, Sarah's briefing but they are NOT LIBERALS
Skippy,
Nothing is politically motivated, any of this Mueller investigation wouldn't have started if trump had not asked Comey to drop(which Comey claim he did) and next day talked on TV to talk about firing Comey because Russia investigations is getting too much. If Manafort is a Democrat, why did trump hire him for running the campaign of republican presidential campaign, wasn't it about draining the swamp and purging?
Mueller is doing his job he was appointed to, if he uncovers Manafort committed money fraud,tax fraud before he came to campaign,do you mean he should just let it go?Why? Because Mueller is slurred and accused of manipulating Manafort? What is in the book of law is being done by Mueller by bringing up a tax fraud case against Manafort. Trump claimed manafort worked for him for 45 days, why would he and Rudy go out on camera talked about unfair and pardoning everyone for a man who probably have nothing damaging on trump cos he worked for 45days only? Why would trump damage his own reputation and credibility of innocence by claiming unfair on the day Manafort goes to jail? The judge must have seen enough evidence than we have to come to conclusion. Why smear her for political purposes. The only thing doing around media is Manafort hasn't spoken about Don knr meeting lasting 5-10 minutes,he doesn't have to speak on that. Nobody in this world could force him to. After all Rudy is saying all over TV trump is going to pardon everyone to clean up Mueller investigations? Why do smear Mueller? He investigated something,but uncovered another crime, should he have let it go just like that? Because people will accuse him of leveraging to use that for flipping people? Well, Manafort doesn't need to flip if there was nothing useful offered and taken in Donald jnr meeting, but he is supposed to face trial for his previous tax fraud crime and face sentence if convicted. If there's nothing wrong done in the meeting of 5-10 minutes,there will never be any evidence admissible in court even if Mueller dig up till the core of the earth.
We do live in a banana republic I’ll give you thst
Manafort's crimes, and there apparar to be many, have nothing to do with Trump.
Obama said Hillary had done nothing wrong while the investigation was ongoing. Presidential sized thumb-on-the-scale. Crickets...
Trump says anything about the ongoing investigation and everyone in the establishment screams that he's interfering and "sending signals".
Comey's team allowed Hillary's co-conspirators to sit in on her interview and none of them were in jeopardy.
Hillary's It guy was given immunity, and he lied under oath and they didn't then squeeze him for all he was worth to further the investigation. Wasted immunity.
The IRS targeted conservatives and the bureaucrats paid no penalty.
Clear pro-Hillary bias among the FBI investigators into Hillary's foundation and email system and anti-Trump bias in the fake collusion bit - that is now suddenly an "obstruction of justice" case about firing Comey. This is even though everyone agrees he should have been fired and it was recommended by Rosenstein.
Comey listed Hillary’s crimes then said “No reasonable prosecutor” would indict her even though many said they would.
IG report just released lists volumes of clear signs of bias and the clear actions taken proving bias, then lies and in summary says there is no evidence that their bias affected the investigation. There is no real justice going on here.
My answer to the question: If trump is not criminal why did he hire a criminal?
Is a question
If mueller is not biased and attempting a coup why did he hire people who said they will stop trump presidency?
Well mueller fired them.. So did trump.
This has nothing to do with his role in the campaign. The current charges are of his own doing.
Personally I hope he gets religion and pulls podesta et all further into this. People deserve go to jail for crimes. Nobody is above the law - the partial application of justice in this whole saga is a disgrace to the nation
How many of his "Great People" have been fired by him? Or quit. Can you imagine having a Government Job and accumulating retirement, and then you work with this one, and you get fired, and can't collect your pension now or it's cut down?
His promises at election time were unrealistic. He was going to get down the USA's debt, yet we are many trillions (?) or billions more in debt now. Why? lol, if he's a good businessman (who hires contractors and then doesn't pay then, then uses their work in earning money on his many Casinos and skyscrapers and buildings in NY!!!
Building a wall would cost billions. We don't have it. Don't promise and state that Mexico said they would pay. They didn't. Don't LIE LIE LIE LIE.
Didn't he get off the ownership of one of the Beauty Pagents because he did something degrading to some of them? He called one of the ones that won Fat after she gained 10-20 pounds. What a jerk. Has he looked in the mirror?
He called Rosey Odonell a Fat Pig; that female reporter, he said that she had blood coming out of her "whatever". what kind of person is this??!
What else did he say to degrade women and men in the public eye? he is a BULLY and shouldn't have been voted into office with his Unrealistic promises and by his fans. Just listen to CNN News and you will hear audio recordings of the s--t he comes out with and the b.s. tweets he pens, and how he says one thing, then changes it a few days later. Why play both sides of the coin? So you can't get in trouble, or you don't know what the heck he is doing? And that Scarramucci that he hired to insult the ones that he wanted out, on public television.
He does not have a Political Science background and is not qualified to be where he was voted because of the opponent that some didn't like, or the Mueller investigation messed up Hillary's upcoming win. Someday he may get supeneod or his staff will tell the truth, and he will wind up in jail or fined or impeached.
I am not into politics: I am not a Republican or Democrat, I don't follow what my spouse and friends may think. I just have OPENED MY EARS into what has been occurring the last 2 years by him and his unqualified, lying staff. MSNBC doesn't play those audios or say what all his tweets are -- CNN does.
Hey Yale, go back and re=read your post "Trump says he is a president of law and order. Well law and order don't apply to him and his campaign aides and team. They are above law, anyone in my team goes to jail, I will pardon him(trump says it before the case even begin)". If that's not accusatory rhetoric I don't know what is.
Skippy,
Hillary case is investigated by IG, they feel they need not opened her case. Who's stopping trump and republicans to open it and investigate it all over again? Why so much whining and crying like babies over it? Obama is not anymore president,trump is. Why not open the case by executive order? Is he afraid he won't be able to cry and whine over it once opened? If you want Hillary's IT guy, he can be extradited at snap of a finger, who is stopping the investigation? Trump and republicans have been in power for almost two years now, don't you think if they can't investigate Hillary and obama, then they should stop whining, so should you.
You never answered my questions. Do you think and agree with trump manafort has been unfairly treated and needs to be pardon(for a crime not related to trump at all)?
Everyone screams and shout when trump said he's gonna pardon everyone and himself in his campaign at end of investigations! Do you feel that's appropriate for a president to say that? Do you think it's not obstructing the investigations, how? Answer me Skippy, do you think he has rights to forgive everyone in his team and also EXONERATED himself and pardon himself? Isn't that abuse of power? Never heard of an innocent man exonerating himself and pardoning himself before being charged with anything,have you Skippy? Pls answer it.
Storz and page said that before Mueller even came to picture, so don't lie... Stop lying. They talked about it before trump even got elected,so MUELLER was never in the picture. He fired them when the text was discovered during investigation.
If trump fired Manafort for being a criminal, then why is going out of his way on TV to say Manafort has been unfay treated after firing him? I NEVER SAID MANAFORT SENTENCING HAS ANYRHING TO DO WITH TRUMP OR CAMPAIGN.
Why talk about PARDONING him(for a crime unrelated to campaign) and cohen, cleaning up Mueller investigation by PARDONING everyone?
You haven't answered that direct questions either.
I don't have time to beat around the bush,my questions are direct.
Trump has been saying a lot of outrageous things for attention, you don't have a problem with that either.
"Trump has been saying a lot of outrageous things for attention, you don't have a problem with that either."
I absolutely do not, as long as he does what he promised to do in his campaign. So far, he's fulfilling campaign promises left and right, with a start to the whole NK thing as the icing on top.
Before you dismiss this link/source as "too biased", here are a few thoughts:
-I have said over & over: look at ALL the resources you can, it's the only way to get to the truth. Because the truth is always in-bteween the lines of everyone's "take" on something
-He did not like Trump. He did not vote for Trump. He wasn't a never-Trumper, but he thought it was a really, really bad idea for Trump to be elected president (altho also that dog catcher would be better than Hillary).
-He is now a Trump supporter. Why? Because Trump is doing what very few politicians do: keep his promises representing the American people.
https://www.glennbeck.com/radio/trumps-actually-following-through-on-his-campaign-promises-here-are-a-few
BC : I really don't know whether you have compreshension problem. Mr trump has been saying throughout the campaign that he will bring in law and order. That's good. But he seems to forget that when he interfered a judge's sentencing of Manafort as he went all out of his way to say that MANAFORT has been unfairly treated and Rudy claims trump will pardon everyone at end of investigations? Do you think they are respecting the law and order of the judge who sent Manafort to jail? Why do they want to butt in an ongoing investigation and judicial case which is ongoing? Isn't that going above the law?
JR: I don't care what outrageous thing trump said as campaign promises. But I care when he asked Obama to show his birth certificate. And all his dumb followers were dumb enough like him NOT to know that Obama will always be american no matter WHERE he was born cos his mother was american. Then Hillary and obama did this and that,all these whining and crying and complaining. You don't mind that too cos you also have been complaining like him too. Why the hell doesn't he resign if he can't get his doj,senators and congressmen to investigate them?It's almost going to be 2 years now and always crying on Twitter like his diaper is wet when he and his party have majority. Well build the wall, I don't mind whether he build the wall, but not on our money! He promised as campaign promise, Mexico will pay for the Wall, so let him beg or kiss their feet or serve as their servant,he should get money from Mexicans like he promised. For NK, I already congratulated him. He keeps campaign promises DOESN'T MEAN HE IS ABOVE THE LAW TO pardon everyone in his campaign who are being investigated by Mueller. He cannot EXONERATE himself nor pardon himself or his aides or his family. Keeping campaign promises doesn't give him authority to strangle investigation or constitution against him or his aides. KEEPING CAMPAIGN PROMISES DOESN'T ENTITLED HIM TO BE ABOVE THE LAW, COURT OR CONSTITUTION TO MISUSE PARDON POWER OR FIRE MUELLER DIRECTLY
TY,
AGAIN- you keep debating things that haven't happened. Why don't you wait until Trump ACTUALLY DOES this stuff you are worried about, THEN we can talk... (such as pardoning himself). And I agree he should not be above the law- neither should Hillary be for what she colluded in, nor Obama. Nor the FBI themselves.
But until Trump actually DOES something that you're suggesting, you're just wasting bandwidth. All this talk of his big mouth doesn't mean a thing.
The Yale, You stated; "Do you think they are respecting the law and order of the judge who sent Manafort to jail? Why do they want to butt in an ongoing investigation and judicial case which is ongoing? Isn't that going above the law?" and to that I say no, it's not butting in or going above the law. It's called expressing an opinion, something we all have in common and a right to.
You seem to have a problem with all things Trump. Trump could say water is wet and you would find fault. You criticize him for speaking about Manafort as if it's somehow unlawful. However, you also criticize the president for upholding the law, specifically immigration laws, of which you and I shared comments earlier in this thread. You can't have it both ways without being labeled a hypocrite. And if you're not a liberal as you say, you certainly espouse rhetoric similar to most liberals. Maybe you're just a pseudo-liberal. Either way this thread is about Korea and the recent efforts by the Trump administration to seek peace with the North. The initial meeting between Trump and Kim was a good starting point. There is more work ahead and we, as Americans, should be pulling for successful negotiations that bring peace. Many Koreans, both from the North and South want it to become a reality too. So even if you don't care about success yourself, have some empathy for those Koreans who do.
JR: Then you should also agree that he should just shut up about PARDONING everyone in his campaign and not let his DOG RUDY BARK about PARDONING everyone in the media. Cos that sends a message directly or indirectly to Manafort and Cohen that they maybe pardon if they don't cross paths with Trump. And you also agree that Hillary nor Obama colluded with anyone or did anything illegal as per Trump's own IG, well if you don't agree then you can still write to the spineless republicans in the hill why haven't they start investigating Hillary and obama?
You are NOT the one who decide that Trump can talk big talk and it doesn't MEAN A THING BECAUSE HE IS THE POTUS,every word he farts from his mouth means BIGLY, even threatening to pardon everyone. If he was a homeless beggar, you could have said what you have said,but he is POTUS and he is responsible for his words too cos this country runs on his words, threatening to pardon everyone is screwing the constitution and law of the land by hinting what he might do and affecting those who are already being investigated and facing trials. Don't you think he should just shut up for the good of everyone in his campaign, if he isn't going to act on his words?
“ Do you think it's not obstructing the investigations, how? “
No there are no requests for information denied by Trump or his legal team.
“Answer me Skippy, do you think he has rights to forgive everyone in his team and also EXONERATED himself and pardon himself?”
I think the constitution grants POTUS the absolute right to do so - the jury is still out as it were on pardoning himself but I think he would be a fool to do so as you pointed out this is poor optics - the POTUS would need to be impeached before he could be charged criminally as was discussed and if things went that far pence would pardon him ala Ford and Nixon - I did answer this before btw.
Trumps statement was designed to redirect the news cycle. Very few people think that "self-pardoning" is a thing. I think his statement was meant to get Anti-Trump people's “knickers in a knot.” And clearly it worked - He knows he has nothing to pardon himself for. He has been under surveillance for 3 years.
Meanwhile - back at the ranch - there was supposition that HRC could do the same thing
https://lawandcrime.com/opinion/if-hillary-is-indicted-president-clinton-could-pardon-herself-and-congress-might-be-helpless/
Do I feel that this SHOULD be the case legally?
Yes. Note that I am not in favor of authoritarianism. Rather, I believe that if we get to a scenario where the President pardons himself, is not immediately impeached, and retains the support of the voting public.
The onus of preventing such an act should be squarely placed in the responsibility of the representatives of the people, and the people must maintain an eternal, vigilant watch on those representatives. The day such vigilance erodes is the day democracy becomes terminal, and nothing can save that. Look to the example of Brazil as support for democracy has eroded to a minority due to the economic suffering of the region.
Those representatives have the absolute right and authority to bring forth articles of impeachment if they feel that Trump is obstructing Justice.
Just a reminder - POTUS is the chief law enforcement officer of the US and therefore cannot obstruct a DOJ investigation as the DOJ derives their power from him. He can ,however, obstruct a Congressional investigation as Congress's power is separate from and equal to him in some ways, inferior in others, and superior in yet others (checks and balances) - but yet there’s no articles of impeachment because this is a “nothing burger”.
It is the will of the electorate that Trump be allowed to continue - simple as that.
I hope that answers your questions
Is he the first pres that hasn't studied Political Science and what you need to know about the Laws(sss) of our land?
and he got on the political map by fabricating and degrading Obama that he wasn't born in the US. and his followers love that he makes fun of almost everyone in his path.
and how did Jared Kushner get a Secret clearance in the first place, and then taken away, and given back after all the omissions and lies on his application? did you hear that he wants to build about 800 townhouses or condos in East Hanover area? It's in the Morris County Daily Record a lot -- the paper didn't say it was to be build by him, until a month later. didn't he screw over a lot of his tenants in buildings that he owns in NJ/close to NY?
Ok - most presidents are not political science majors it has no bearing or relevance to the job
Meanwhile Trump was a Democrat and has been politically active since the 80s - Clinton lost three “blue wall” states — Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin — along with the 2nd Congressional District of Maine because she didn’t bother to campaign hard there and Trump did. Not to mention a lot of Bernie supporters were pissed that the DNC handed her the primary and voted for Trump.
Yeah seriously Hackresident... posting stuff from CNN is about as credible as the National Enquirer...
A citizen of a Democracy would be under the law though contract. A People of a Republican Democracy of a State would be under grace. That's how I see it.
I don't see how the President has the Authority to pardon himself. It's clearly stated in law that the POTD is immune to the courts while in Office with the exception of civil lawsuits brought against him. If the POTD is immune to courts, then in essence he can't pardon the POTD.
And to the best of knowledge anyone Impeached by Congress can't be pardoned.
yeah - constitutional scholars are up in the air about it as well. it's a complex issue.
JR: When is trump getting a Nobel prize for medicine for curing cancer?And where's the party to celebrate it?
P.S: Maybe debating realistically and healthily is not your type when you run out of alternative facts. No worry, I am good at punchlines and memes too if you wanna get there.
the left cant meme..
Democratic Platform for midterms and 2020:
-rooting for the the economy to fail
-high joblessness and unemployment
-higher taxes and lower wages for all
-promote Islamification of the west
-open borders / mass illegal immigration
-pro MS13
I think he thinks He has the magic wand of highest power, and he's pushing every single crazy button he can, to see if he can change everything, anything, even the dumbest @$$ things. i can't keep up with the ridiculous crap that comes out of his mouth (or tweets). i'm not the only one thinking this, if you have an open mind and just listen and admit it. If Hillary did and said all these things, she'd be ridiculed, etc.
Democratic platform for 2020: UNDO TRUMP. Then again, we may not have to wait that long :) (Hurry it up, Mueller!)
Is it sad I voted for someone in a primary - a close call personally between them and their opponent - by considering which one would be more likely to vote for impeachment?
Interesting numbers given at the briefing tonight...and by the way they were quite clear about how WELL the children are being treated...now for those numbers...
So far....12,000 kids have been taken in....OF WHICH
10,000 crossed the boarder WITHOUT their parents or were SENT by their parents
2,000 were removed from their parents after they broke the LAW.
so.....10,000 parents CHOSE to be separated from their kids without even breaking the law themselves....probably knowing very well that the USA would take better care of their kids.
So everything else posted by PL and other leading up to this......MYTH!
"Maybe debating realistically and healthily is not your type when you run out of alternative facts. "
ROFLMAO! Pot meet kettle!
The truth is I just don't suffer fools anymore, it's not worth the energy required to do so.
"by considering which one would be more likely to vote for impeachment?" -alpha1beta
Impeachment for what exactly? The left keeps harping on this and it has been said multiple times over by legal experts he has done nothing that warrants impeachment proceedings to be filed. Just because you personally don't like his rhetoric doesn't mean it is grounds for impeachment.
Joe Friday http://www.businessinsider.com/immigration-children-diapers-2018-6. Illegal or not these are children and they're not getting the proper care when they are being separated. Children have everything to take care of children? If you're going to separate the children at least make sure they're properly cared for and use their name instead of a number
A teenage girl should not have to be changing the babies Diaper where are the adults are supposed to be supervising these children? If you're going to take them away from their parents at least make sure they're getting the basic needs met like a baby should not be sitting in a poopy diaper that's child abuse. What happens if this teenage girl was not in the same cage as his toddler would she be sitting in her own poop and urine for days? I'm sorry but this is unacceptable legal or not these are children not freaking animals.
He in higher-archy doesn't seem to care.
he said he likes commotion or something like that.
1. Poor farmers are approached by “people” who say they can get their kids into the US for a better life, but it will cost them $10K
2. Of course, they don’t have the $10K, so they hand over the deeds to their property as payment.
3. Mid-teens are trafficked to the US and put to work as slave labor. They are ostensibly paid $600 per week, but the traffickers keep $550 per week to pay for what they owe for passage.
4. The kids are kept on isolated farms where they work and live a dozen or so to a trailer. They also deposit them in public schools, but they are so dog tired from working that they can’t do anything at school.
5. Kids are told that their parents will be killed, lose their farm, or both if they make any noise about the situation.
https://to.pbs.org/2HnORU7
"A teenage girl should not have to be changing the babies Diaper where are the adults are supposed to be supervising these children? " - wait it's wrong for a 16 year old to baby sit and care for younger children - oh the humanity...
Skip e-tron for the so-called supervisor of the children of these camps to not provide care for children. That is what's wrong. If you're going to take away children from their parents they should provide accurate care for these children. Illegal are not they are still children. They are human beings. So yes the supervisor should be changing diapers and caring for these babies that are being taken away from their parents. I read one article where they took away an infant while the mother was breastfeeding. I'm sorry uncalled for and Humane and if you think that's okay shame on you and I hope there's no children in your life because that would make you a horrible person. Like I said illegal or not they're still Trill dhryn and they need to be cared for. The supervisors who are supervising the children need to change diapers Feed the Children bottles. Horrible horrible horrible situation for these little guys I think I read where the youngest was 4 months. Are the supervisors beating them every 2 hours are they getting changed every 2 hours? Probably not because they don't care. And that would be child abuse
It's wrong for supervisors not to provide decent care for these children. If that 16 year old did not change the diaper would that diaper have been changed? I highly doubt the supervisors would do it. Do you think a child should sit in a diaper for days on end without being changed?
All of the smoke around him and Russia is grounds for impeachment (Impeachment, not necessarily removal). Impeachment would just guarantee we have to get to those answers and that the general public finds out the answers, not some report that goes to the DOJ. There's also grounds for impeachment on multiple fronts of obstruction of justice. Again, impeachment is just like an indictment, its a charge, not necessarily guilty in a court of law. If he weren't president, he's be awaiting trial by now.
I have no doubt there was attempted "collusion", or you know, the legal charge - treason.
And I know, you wing nuts won't agree, but just wait and see. If you are even slightly patriotic then you should be demanding answers to the Russia investigation, which is not a witch hunt, and has lead to indictments. Anyone against the Mueller investigation is a traiter, plain and simple.
With the trade deals, trade war, and NK, there's some suspicious dealings too. He's certainly the personality type to try to enrich himself at anyone's expense. Trump Tower Pyongyang will be unveiled any day now.
I want answers. I'm 99% sure those answers are that the Russia helped the Trump campaign, with their knowledge, and played the worst segments of the American population to help swing the election in his favor, both to have a president they can blackmail and/or bribe into doing their bidding as well as put an idiot in office whom they can walk all over.
Trump might as well be named Donaldov Trumposco, because he sure thinks like a Russian.
No doubt, huh alpha? Me thinks you’re mistaking suspicion for evidence. But hey, if that’s the kind of justice you want in these great United States then you should feel quite happy and content because we certainly have a lot of that ;-)
justintime here we go - more words from the race-baiting, lying, divisive left..
The children are not only being protected from criminally abusive adults, but the conditions of these homeland security facilities are far superior to any conditions these kids have ever experienced.
Chain linked fences are not cages. They surround most American schools and countless institutions.
Easy way to solve this.
1. Stop using kids as a security blanket to come to this country.
2. freeze trade with mexico until they help stop allowing these people to cross over.
The law is the law and there are plenty of families here separated from their children because they've been murdered by illegal aliens.
Did you see any of the House hearings this morning? All you had to do was see Cummings (who began crying) and Nadler to know what the democrat HQ narrative for this week was. So mind-numbingly obvious, contrived, and repetitive.
But I'm all ears to hear why this is an actual issue and how its Trumps fault.
This administration is doing the same things as the prior administration and the one before that.. it goes back to 2002.
A 2015 ruling by a 9th circuit district court cited the Flores Decree (upon which this statute was based I believe) in finding that kids must be separated from parents who are detained for illegal entry:
https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/immigration-border-crisis/judge-u-s-violates-agreement-detention-immigrant-children-n398261
here is the actual ruling..
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2298479-federal-ruling-on-detention-of-immigrants.html
allow me to deal with the inevitable counterargument that this only applies to “unaccompanied” children as stated in the statute - the 2015 9th Circuit ruling held that it must also apply to children who enter illegally with their families. - boom clase closed - not Trump..
You are barking at the dog whistles your media masters are giving you as is evidenced by the House hearing today
let me be clear:
The ISSUE itself isn't necessarily manufactured but it is not new. The outrage and theatrics ARE manufactured, and somehow using the issue as yet another reason n to blame Trump is manufactured.
stop being a witless puppet to the left. The weekly manufacturing of outrage is comical - there IS a time and place to debate policy and enact common sense law, including reforms. To use media to screech at opportune moments when you simply want to distract from real issues is disgusting and not the proper forum.
Talking about diaper not getting changed by the person. In charge. And who knows what really is going on behind those doors. And they're in a cage they're surrounded by Chain fence acting as a gate. I don't care if the child has black white hispanic or any other race they deserve to be treated properly diaper changed babies need to be fed every 2 hours and they're probably not my post is the care of children Nott about anything else. It's about how the children are getting treated. This is inhumane having a 16 year old child changing the infants or toddlers diaper when it should be the person who's supervising the children. This is my case this is what I have a problem with. The 16 year old should not have to do it it should be the adult in charge. Very very sad times
What happens if that older child was not in there. With a diaper of that child been changed? Probably not I don't trust these supervisors trusting good care to these kids. It doesn't matter if you're legal or illegal children are children and should be cared for
Coming to America to seek Asylum is not illegal by the way. I don't know if you knew that or not but anybody coming to America to seek protection it's legal. Also that's just an excuse to separate the kids from the parents. When the kids are crying. Please don't let them take me away you know something is up. That's just an excuse from Trump and his crazy cronies. And no it's not racist like you had stated up above Skip it's called compassionate that you don't take it like that away from a mother who's breastfeeding. That's horrible. Excuses Trump and his crazy cronies excuses tempos nothing but why and his supporters are doing fooled. The treatment of these children is inhumane and I hope people who support that don't have any children in her life cuz I'll be very sad. No child illegal or legal should be treated like this. That's my baby would probably still be in a wet diaper if it wasn't for that 16 year old girl. Where are the supervisors. Why would they not let the Senators into that camp after they said that they would be light in 5 minutes? They're hiding stuff things are being hit that they're not telling the public and it's very scary who knows what's happening to these poor children. And anybody who supports the way these children are being treated or horrible people because of baby deserves to be changed and a timely matter. Trump and stuff even said the only way he'll help the families as if he gets funding for his walk his ridiculous wall. This just shows you what kind of person he is he only does stuff when he get something he's ridiculous. He's an embarrassment. Even other countries people do not like what he's doing and he's making a fool of the United States people but really it's just him and his little followers But You Keep On Believing him and his wise if that's what makes you happy.
Whether you're left, right, or somewhat in between here's what I don't understand.
How do you get upset about people taking a knee during our national anthem but NOT get upset at the very country it is the symbol for being torn apart from the inside with corruption, anti-American policy changes, massive giveaways of our tax coffers to corporations rather than going to the schools, bridges, tunnels, and military that so badly need them.
How do you get upset about the flag being disrespected while not get upset when the very principals the country it symbolizes are being destroyed? This country was built by hard-working immigrants (and well, slaves who were forced immigrants).
If you're conservative patriotic type how do you support our country slowly being given over to our greatest enemies (Russia, North Korea) and our friends/allies being pushed away? We're being sold down the river because some guy on the other side of the world has a tape of some other guy doing bad stuff, among other things. How many lies will it take being exposed for people to see that clearly?
No matter what your views, how do you defend the United States of America keeping children in internment camps in 2018?
We're on the Hitler/Nazi plan. It all started like this back in the thirties, before they got around to the even more evil stuff. Read your history. It's no different.
BH2 Those children are getting better care now then they did in their cesspool country
These cages are the same as fences around schools? You get no credibility with arguments like that. Actually I don't see schools with fences around them, but anyway, inside those fences are acres of open ground, places to learn and play and loving adults to care and nurture kids, bathrooms and cafeterias and education materials, sports fields, comfortable furniture, on and on.
Inside these small fence cages are packed humans, no bathrooms, no food. cold hard floors paper-thin space blankets, people with guns (to shoot the occupants, not protect them) hatred and fear.
You can walk right on out of a school. Not an internment camp made for children, from fences.
Bh2 you are a hundred percent right. And also the mothers and fathers would change their children unlike the supervisor who's supposed to be watching the kids period instead a 16 year old child how to be in charge of the baby's care. At ridiculous these poor children are suffering and scary as it sounds who knows what else is going behind closed doors. And to think Skippy and others like him are okay with this just boggles my mind
"These cages are the same as fences around schools? You get no credibility with arguments like that. Actually I don't see schools with fences around them, but anyway, inside those fences are acres of open ground, places to learn and play and loving adults to care and nurture kids, bathrooms and cafeterias and education materials, sports fields, comfortable furniture, on and on."
do they have any of that stuff in there current environment? weren't we just crying that this is a war zone and they have no choice but to cross the desert?
So how many kids were taken from their parents from 2008 to 2018??? You don't actually cross a border when you SEEK ASYLUM.
And now the orange monster is going to leave the United Nations human rights seriously so sad. What the heck is wrong with the so-called president. She's making the United States look like a bully with their allies
were never going to see middle ground on this..
think this is the biggest difference between the left and conservatives...
accountability.
Liberals see a parent who breaks the law and is then separated from their child, and they blame the law. Conservatives see a parent who breaks the law and is then separated from their child, and they blame the parent.
We are a democracy, and we have laws that must be followed. You don't get to choose which laws you will and will not obey, that isn't how the system works. And, if you choose to break the law, then you will suffer the consequences of that choice.
Accountability. You are responsible for the consequences of your actions. The world does not exist to accommodate you and your bad choices.
Say what you want about their "cesspool country" Philliesman, but it seems clear that these kids are loved by their parents and brought here out of love and their parents wanting a better future for them. They no longer have that love now that they are caged in internment camps in the USA. That's not better care. Go with the false stories that they're actors (like Sandy Hook?), or fake kids with fake family members (sure does seem like they're well trained to wail and cry and call these fake family members Momma and Daddy), or the older ones are MS-13 (which I'm sure if it was true they'd be paraded with their tattoos and all but we're seeing NONE of that so obviously that's BS).
Don't forget, Philliesman, unless you're a Native American, once upon a time your family members and mine were the same uneducated, talked funny, dressed funny, dirty, desperate, and often illegal immigrants coming here for a chance at something better for their children and grandchildren and ultimately that's how you and I got here. Thank God the wonderful country that we used to be gave them a chance.
That was. Notmy question skip if that 16 year old girl was not in that cage with that small baby... Would that baby's diaper been changed are they doing what they're supposed to be doing and making sure those kids are safe?
The thing I don't understand about Trump's new zero-tolerance policy that has caused this, and all the talking points about how we're a nation of laws and the laws must be enforced, is why don't those same principals apply to the daily on-camera breaking of laws by the President, his family, and the administration? How many examples do we need to see of them lying to congress, practicing corruption, lying to the FBI, gratifying themselves at the taxpayer expense, misusing their offices for profit, etc?
I thought we were a nation of laws? Why aren't the media asking this every single time they say we're a nation of laws and the laws must be followed and enforced?
Okay, Skippy, let me put you in a chain link fence and see how you like it.
Around schools? Holy bear poo, you're stupid. First, most schools don't have fencing surrounding it. Second, not fencing that high, third the fencing there is to prevent balls from going into roads and parking lots and not to hold people against their will. I realize going to school might be against your will, but that's only because you steadfastly refuse to educate yourself.
Unlike you, I was actually in school as they were securing them post 9/11 and the biggest things were to keep people out - not in! Most schools use a school ID to open doors, and may have closed some doors off or prevented them from being opened from the outside.
Now, I'm going to agree with the Trumpeters for a rare occasion and agree that kids are separated from parents when parents commit crimes, but there's major differences as to HOW.
1) Kids aren't locked up, at worse they go to foster care system or under the care of relatives but never do they go to jail or are put in cages.
2) Most people arrested, especially since bail reform in NJ, are not keep in jail. They're booked and released with a court date.
3) The majority of these illegals are charged with misdemeanors, for which you may never see the inside of a jail cell in some places.
Also, there's a difference between policy and the law. Separating kids and putting them in CAGES (Here's some definitions for you https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cage) is a POLICY of the TRUMP administration. Jailing illegal before their trial date is a POLICY of the TRUMP administration, unlike that policy of catch and release (under Bush and Obama) that applies to the vast majority of criminals even beyond illegal immigrants.
Skippy: "Accountability. You are responsible for the consequences of your actions. The world does not exist to accommodate you and your bad choices."
I'm going to frame that. You're responsible for voting in Trump and everything that came with it, including the increase in literally nazis, the "tax cuts" increasing the wealth divide, and turning America into a laughing stock of the world, among a very long list.
Speaking of accountability, let's talk about the fact that republicans - the ultimate hypocrites - don't know the meaning of the word accountability.
Let's blame illegals because they took my job. Translation: I'm so worthless that someone who doesn't live here legally and doesn't speak english, can take a job from me, a "superior" American. Also, my boss is such a turd that he's willing to hire illegal workers for below minimum and certainly a fair livable wage, in an effort to increase his profit margin. That said boss is likely not up to all kinda of other crap like avoiding safety regulations as well.
Accountability again: President Tiny Hands: I can do anything
Also President Tiny Hands: BLAME THE DEMOCRATS FOR SEPARATING PARENTS FROM THEIR CHILDREN, I CAN'T DO ANYTHING (Even though my administration created the policy and this has only been happening since I took office)
To take your "Accountability" and shove it
Proud Liberal we get it - we completely get it from your 10 posts today....you don't agree w/ a 16 year old changing diapers
Hackresident: "PTOD" is a typo, sorry. Should have been POTUS. I usually triple check everything, but I'm only human. At least now you know i'm not A.I., I can't even tell a bad joke.
Joe Friday: Congress can impeach for, "for whatever reason whatsoever". Basically, when his conduct deserves it, impeach. At the same time, Congress has to choose to impeach. And, they may not always want to do it even when the conduct deserves it. This is when you vote the current Congress out.
Seeking asylum is different from crossing the border and laying low. Every incident must be investigated. To find out if it's a case of human trafficking or illegal border crossing. I'm not surprised if they just separate first as a safety measure. For some reason those cages remind me of a hard border to prevent further entry into the Country. Not to mention the fact there wasn't a lot of pre-existing structures for this type of detainment in the first place.
It's sad, really. People should arm the Mexican citizens and have them deal with their own revolution against the drug cartels that took over their Country.
Of course, it's impossible to speak for all People. There's bound to be some corrupt types in every level of everything.
Proud liberal: calling a person names; for example,"orange monster" is offensive and childish; and doesn't add weight to your opinion. A lot of the committees at the U.N. are a joke and an offensive to many a people. It's a political mechanism at its worst, and a place where countries work together at its best.
And it degrades to name calling and Nazi references - how cute. Definitely and Indication you have lost the debate..
Well Skip and his friends approve of the way that the children are being treated, which is ridiculous so my question Still Remains unanswered
Speaking of those glorious "peanuts & crumbs" tax cuts, hold onto your hat, they're going to evaporate quickly as you're about to start having to pay a whole lot more for everything.
Not to mention that they were bought with 1.5 trillion in debt that will have to be paid back by...wait for it...tax increases at some point (soon) or the removal of the medicare and social security benefits that Ryan is itching to accomplish and which we paid into our whole lives.
I'm old enough to remember when we put tariffs on the Japanese cars that were coming in. The American automakers said "thank you very much" and quickly took advantage of it by jacking prices up and cutting waaay back on quality.
Buckle up.
I'd pay money to see Skippy in a cage. Maybe we can even put a quarter into those feed dispensers and get him to eat out of our hands.
Also: Laws are not absolute and just because something is the law does not make it just, legal, constitutional or moral.
The constitution is not either. It's been amended 27 times including one amendment that repealed another!
States have legalized marijuana to various degrees, but it's still illegal federally.
Laws get repealed and replaced....speaking of which, weren't you idiots just trying to repeat and replace some law for the past 8 years....funny how they're on the side of the law when it's the law they like. Just like "states rights" and laws about slavery.
How about a few others:
The Runaway Slave Act
Three-Fifths Comprimise
The national maximum speed law
Many Jim Crow laws (I bet you folks would love to see those back, judging by your opinions on everything else)
Chinese Exclusion Act
Sedition Act
Various state and federal laws limited gay marriage, interracial marriage, and sodomy (Thank god, because some of you need to get sodomized!)
Many of the "Blue laws"
How about other "laws" like Executive orders? How about 9066 - the Japanese internment - we even gave these folks money and a formal apologize after we screwed this one up.
(Little known fact, Canada followed our lead and did the same both in jailing and offering compensation)
The law is alive and every changing, both due to the growth of humanity and decent, changes in technology, and sadly as people and corporations find new ways to abuse and exploit others.
How do we know that 16 year old child wasn't that babies mother. I don't understand what the uproar is. Obama did the same thing on his watch, as did Bush and Clinton. When criminals break the law their children are always taken away. To keep them safe from their parents criminal behavior. Remember Janet Reno and Waco. Weren't those children torn away from their parents. Oh that's right Janet Reno had them gunned down along with their parents. Remember this little kid? Where was the uproar then from the left?? Oh that's right it was during Bill Clintons presidency. We have laws in this country that need to be followed. Not only by Americans, but for anyone who comes here.
No the 16 year old child was separated from her parents just like the baby was separated from her parents. The supervisor did not change the diaper so the wonderful 16 year old child took it upon herself to take care for the infant. It doesn't matter if your legal or not legal when it comes to children. Children need to be cared for. Children should not be treated like this this is where I'm going at legal or not legal . The treatment of children needs attention at these children are being uncared-for. And if you think that this treatment is okay just because they're illegal children then I hope you don't have any children in your life because that's just despicable heartbreaking disgusting and unforgivable if you think that way just because they are illegal they still are human children. Yes that's right children innocent children
Here's some dumb laws
http://www.dumblaws.com/laws/united-states/new-jersey
so go turn yourselves in soup slurrpers!
How about you cigarette smokers who smoke leaning against public buildings! We chase away people daily from doing this on our building at work because these scum makes our windows and awning dirty. It's illegal within 25 feet of a public building, which encompasses every sidewalk on a main street ever. Should we put them into a black site and torture them?
How about we tag your cars with a license plate on the roof and use satellites to write you a ticket automatically every time you speed. I bet none of you would be upset about us ENFORCING OUR LAWs then.
Y'all just a bunch of law abiding saints right?
auntiel --
I agree if the parent is an actual criminal the kids should be separated - HUMANELY, not in internment camps of chain-link cages.
These people are guilty of misdemeanors, crossing outside of an official border crossing. You are guilty of a misdemeanor everytime you get behind the wheel, assuming that like 99.9% of people you break the speed limit. Should you be arrested and your kids ripped from the car and put in cages?
As far as the misdemeanor, they cross where they do for several reasons. First, the border stations that the right-wing talking points keep urging them to cross at are blocked. There are US agents at the roads and bridges to them actually blocking the way, saying they're all full (when actual on site witnesses say they're anything but). So after trekking all that way what are they going to do? They willingly surrender themselves as the law provides for those seeking asylum. Some just don't know any better. And, in many cases, the areas around those border crossings are extremely dangerous, as bad people lurk there waiting to do bad things to them.
The incidents of separation under Bush, Clinton, Obama were few and far between. This is MASS INCARCERATION OF CHILDREN IN INTERNMENT CAMPS. We should all be ashamed.
You said laws have to be followed. What about the ones about lying to Congress, corruption, abuse of office, profiting from public office, etc?
Again, ask yourself if your dirty, uneducated, funny-talking ancestors were given a chance in this country and how thankful you should be that we do that.
Ask yourself if you want to live in a country that forces you to salute the flag or dear leader. Ask yourself if you want to be forced into a particular ideology or unable to speak out against it, fearing for your life or your children's, or getting locked up.
Because that's where we're heading. This guy doesn't worship at the alter of dictators and despots for nothing. We're on a fast track to facism. Read up on the early days of Hiitler, Mussolini, and countless other beloved right-wing "nationalists."
Because one day, they may come for you, because you're "different" in some way. Perhaps you're a Catholic and not a Protestant. Or some such. It may be you or those you love someday.
Reject hate.
BH2 you're insane... Don't bring up a guy in Hitler that killed millions of people in camps and also caused a war that killed tens of millions of people and compare him to Trump.
A1B - let me break this down for you.
If you are knowingly, illegally entering a nation, without grounds of guaranteed protection, nor compiling to the criteria to be considered refugee, being that you are the legal guardian of the child or sworn protector, are you not knowingly putting your child at risk?
That is a form of abuse..
The entire world knows full well the dangers that exist for their child in the event of illegal entry and or the subjected environment that child must endure in the acts leading up to and after illegal entry.
That is known as neglect.
Therefore, it follows suit that children should be separated as the parents KNOW they are, at the very least, putting their child at risk leading up to illegal crossing. In addition medical assessments and treatment must be performed and these children must be protected from other ADULTS who wish to do them harm.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK57157/
stop virtue signaling and engaging, character assignation and threats/ because you cant logically support your position.
Metsman: Hitler didn't do that overnight. Trump has the full potential to do the same and sure as hell seems to be reading the "How to be a dictator" manual. Or at least the picture book version.
alpha1beta you're insane too... You will never see Trump gather people up into camps, starve them, and then throw them into furnaces.... You won't see him invading neighboring countries trying to take over the world. I can't believe the nonsense I'm reading...
@alpha1beta "Y'all just a bunch of law abiding saints right?"
So your trying to sell your ideas by "justifying" breaking the law?
Really?
I L L E G A L....is it really that hard to understand?
But no...lets forget the fact that the parents put their kids in that situation to begin with....there is only so much money and so many people to help...proud liberal...maybe you should go work the boarder and help by changing diapers....maybe that would give you something to do during the day, as you clearly have no job and nothing better to do then post every 5 minutes....again.
Look at the town pool! A fence with barbed wire around it! Oh no the poor people...
A1B et..rejoice, unlike anyone you would have elected, Trump is actually proposing a solution to end the practice of separating children from their 'parents' at the border.
I'm sure you know by this point, but have refused to respond to, that this practice has been going on to a much greater extent for many years prior to the Trump administration. Your unwillingness to support an actual fix to the issue really, really betrays to sensible people how ingenuine your supposed heightened compassion really is.
Trump's solution may not be ideal in your eyes, but it is a comparatively cheap, effective and proven solution that has many other benefits. In a less insane time I'd like to believe that your supposed heightened sense of compassion would lead you to concede to the plan of a legitimately elected president for the sake of the separated children rather than jump from thinly veiled outrage to outrage.
In a weeks time this story will recede out of your consciousness, just like the 'seven days' hate' receded out of your consciousness last week. No ground will support your standing because it melts away beneath you under the lightest amount of scrutiny. Therefore you jump from unstable island to island, desperately searching for some saving grace; some minuscule bit of leverage to supplant the formless, amorphous, capricious value system you ironically call universal morality.
the kids are going to get post-traumatic stress disorder, why make the kid's lives and health sick?
FE: Global Warming - he goes against as a fraud and untrue.
As of today, he's leaving the United Nations' Humans' Rights.
What next? Almost every day there is something else. Does something ridiculous, and he does the next thing to take the diversion off of it (especially if the press ridicules it. (Look up "Wag the Dog").
some doctors that have gone on TV and the press have said on TV that this moron is mentally ill. G-d get him out of this high perch and take away that dictator wand. he makes me want to puke.
How did his wife get into this country? wasn't she working in the US as a model without the proper, legal paperwork?
The school I went to in the late 30s and 40s had a fence around it. We used to climb the fence after school hours and weekends to play in the yard. The cops knew we did that and never did anything because we didn't destroy anything. We played baseball with a tennis ball. We took the widest part of the grounds and put a strike zone on the building with chalk. Then we would look for chalk on the ball to settle disputes. We would hit the coal shute door with a fist and it would open so the smallest guy could go around and open the door. Then play basket ball in the gym.and get a drink. It is called respect. If any of us did anything wrong, our parents would whack us with the strap. And the cop was never wrong. Many were bulled, you learned to deal with it and most times others would step in. Ho!! my, God forbid such actions today.
Metsman - tyranny happens very slowly. Read up on Hitler's path, and the rest of them. The gameplan Trump is following is exactly the same one as the dictators he idolizes. Nobody ever thought Hitler was capable of ANY of that in the early days. Nobody knew he was a narcissistic psychopath then. With Trump, it's evident from the start. He's practically *begging* to be appointed leader for life. That doesn't scare the hell out of you?
For Pete's sake, how clear does he have to be that he wishes he had the same ability and control as they do, to punish those who do not properly worship at his feet, praise him. You're really not seeing that in him? You don't see a man that would do anything, anything to YOU for his own personal gain? He's come very close to getting reporters killed or injured.
Remember. The playbook says first divide the people with hatred and suspicion. Then take out the media. Then take away their weapons. Then get rid of everyone who disagrees or doesn't fit your image of a "citizen".Trump is on baby step two. He'll keep on trucking until people wake up and realize what's going on.
I'd argue that it's happening quickly. We're only a year and a half in and already we have internment camps for children in the United States of America. It's like a bad movie already.
BH2, bingo! Glad to see someone else is aware of the history. People thought Hitler was a joke and that his talk about the Jews were just him ranting on. Even citizens of Germany had no idea what was actually going on, and the majority of the soldiers weren't Nazis.
I think this will play out a bit different. The Russians are on the side with the nazis this time.
Also, the nazis are really stupid this time around.
Do the head-man followers still claim they support what he does, so they don't look bad or a "traitor"? (so to speak, I can think of other words to use, but won't).
I look at these college kids at his rallies on TV, and the people that voted for him with the belief that "he will make America Great Again". I can't help but wonder if they are deaf or haven't dealt with B.S.-ers in their short or long lifes, or are gullible and nieve.
Do you think he's made America better? HOW??? He gave us a little more in our checks, only to be taxed more in other areas, and our fuel has gone up about 30 cents a gallon, thanks to whomever did that. All these tariffs to other countries are going to make the US lose business, not gain. Am I right? Has he saved jobs? I don't see any.
There's one nutsy issue after another. IT DOESN"T END!!! And those poor babies and young children w/o their parents: SHAME ON HIM!!!
now he is praising KJU as BFFs. Why?
BH2 You are following the talking points of the Builderbergs nicely. The One World Order is coming and you will have nothing to say about anything..
Obama is a Nazi too? Why did the leftist media only bring it up now? It's pure propaganda meant to divide people.
Here is something to get behind - Children should not be smuggled into countries like drugs. They're humans.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Hy8UwpenlEA#
Bill Clinton Receives Standing O In 1995 State Of The Union For Tough Stance On Illegal Immigration
https://youtu.be/lHg93lVbaY4
Obama Calls for Immigration Reform
https://youtu.be/Lps-As9djiw
And Hillary Clinton in 2014 saying that children should be sent back with their illegal parents.
from the HuffPo - one of your authorized sources of liberal propaganda..
Deportation Separated Thousands Of U.S.-Born Children From Parents In 2013
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/parents-deportation_n_5531552
Can't wait to hear your counter-argument.
It's was called the Alien Transfer and Exit program back in 2015
https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/dhs-releases-end-year-statistics
https://www.justiceactivist.com/uploads/4/3/8/5/43853987/in_harms_way.pdf
https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/tags/alien-transfer-and-exit-program
https://lawandcrime.com/immigration/obamas-immigration-agencies-separated-children-from-their-families-too/
Vox - another left leaning source - "To be clear, there is no official Trump policy stating that every family entering the US without papers has to be separated. What there is is a policy that all adults caught crossing into the US illegally are supposed to be criminally prosecuted — and when that happens to a parent, separation is inevitable."
https://www.vox.com/2018/6/11/17443198/children-immigrant-families-separated-parents
Admit you have no clue. You haven't actually done any research into this. You're just parroting and cutting-and-pasting talking points.
Skippy, I'll have you know, I don't even have cable, I don't watch live TV. I do watch a little netflix and catch some Colbert monologues on youtube, but those are solely because he's funny as hell (and right).
I do have a subscription to the Washington Post and read it daily. I don't need to copy and past talking points when the DHS Website says all you need to know.
https://www.dhs.gov/news/2018/06/15/frequently-asked-questions-zero-tolerance-immigration-prosecutions
I have spend many nights reading source documents, from the manafort indictments to 200 of the 300+ pages of the congressional interview with fusion GPS (That one was a real snooze). I'll even turn on the live streams for some of the better congressional interviews (Comey and Sessions. Although honestly, I could just listen to Sessions saying "I do not recall" on repeat for 6 straight hours and get the exact same thing out of any testimony he's given).
Plus, when literally every major news source says something and Fox news says the opposite, any human with a functional brain (even half functional) should know what's up.
Did you know the policy was a Jeff Sessions announcement, not Trump?
Here's a video of the moron actually announcing it.
https://www.nbcnews.com/video/attorney-general-jeff-sessions-announces-immigration-laws-that-will-separate-children-from-parents-entering-u-s-illegally-1227626563609
This article lays things out pretty nice including history, something your side likes to ignore.
http://time.com/5314769/family-separation-policy-donald-trump/
Mods: Can we dig up Skippy's IP and make sure it's not from Russia? I have a sneaking suspicion the old wives' tale about Russian sleeper agents may be true.
JR: Chill out,bwhy always in argument mode? You started posting meme,I did, then others too...pls show your humor minus the sarcasm... By the way you won, I am kettle and pot,happy?Have fun while it last
Good points Skippy. Reading this thread is disturbing. The level of hate and vitriol coming from alpha1beta and Proud Liberal is incredibly astounding. I am disturbed and concerned why these personal attacks from alpha1beta are allowed to remain up. They are as offensive as they are repugnant. Aphal1beta has clearly violated the published terms of service that this forum operates under.
Why is he allowed to get away with this?
Actually, Trump has a much easier path than Hitler and others did. He's already got a government that's capable of (and using) complete surveillance of its citizens. He's already got a TV network acting as state TV, espousing the propaganda and talking points of his administration, and yes, lying to us every day. Hitler didn't have that yet at this stage in the game. Add in the Sinclair network and its army of allegiance-professing drone anchors.
We're creating another generation of kids who hate America with good reason, due to the treatment of them and their parents. Rather than thankful future citizens who owe us a debt of gratitude and pay into our social security and medicare/medicade system without being able to use it (thank you, immigrants, for helping fund my retirement with your hard work), we're creating a whole new army of future Osama bin Ladens. It might be me, you, our kids, or grandkids that pay the price for our hateful treatment of these individuals that only want to come here for a better life.
They're trying to do this right and legally. They're *trying* to get to the checkpoint stations. We've intentionally understaffed those so that they're overcrowded, or else lie to them about there being no room, knowing full well we are directing them into the arms of the dangerous coyotes who will then show them how to cross the river. Then we say we're trying to save them from the "dangerous journey".
Pure evil. And as we know, evil doesn't go unpunished. Especially when you do evil in the name of God.
And if you say they'll never come for your guns, or else you'll be some kind of militia person like in those cool movies and websites, think again. If you try to combat the armored personnel carriers and military weapons that are prevalent around the country in police forces with your puny Bushmaster AR-15, a drone strike will fix you up quickly.
In Mueller we trust.
BH2, You stated; "The thing I don't understand about Trump's new zero-tolerance policy that has caused this," when in actuality it's not Trump's policy that has cause the situation. It's people illegally crossing the US border. Typical liberal way of twisting the facts to suit your narrative. Fortunately most people can see through your BS.
Look at what your president says
"I'm automatically attracted to beautiful [women]—I just start kissing them. It's like a magnet. Just kiss. I don't even wait. And when you're a star they let you do it. You can do anything ... Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything."
“your puny Bushmaster AR-15”
Wait, I thought AR-15’s were “high powered weapons of war”.
Grayhawk I'm concerned that people like you are getting brainwashed but people like Trump and his cronies. You know what I'm concerned about the children can wet missing I'm concerned about the children who are in cages. That is who I'm concerned about and rightfully so. Trump is a very scary scary man to realize they hate us he's becoming buddy-buddy with a dictator. He's doing business in China that has nothing to do with the United States it's just going to get him richer. That is what I'm concerned about. I'm very concerned because the scary man is going to do terrible things to her country and he already is like putting children in cages and not getting the children properly taken care of. That's what I'm scared of I'm scared of what happened to those 1500 children that are missing and nobody can find them that is what I'm concerned about. And people like you who are brainwashed by Trump's lies that's who I'm concerned about you have your concerns all mixed up I'm not sure how anybody can support a horrible horrible man who wants to grab women's pussys and who treats women garbage and minorities like garbage that's what's concerning. I don't want my daughter to grow up saying this so-called leader saying horrible things about women. Trump is not right he's a horrible horrible person open your eyes and see what he's doing he's a terrible horrible man get your priorities right and people who attacked me where not with it in the guidelines of how you're supposed to act on these forms oh but that's okay because I'm a minority right? So are you staying the only people who agree with you can break the rules and still stay on this board? Because I was attacked with Mema is horrible horrible things were said to me and nobody got off this board because I still see people writing another forms interesting how you didn't say that they should be removed from this board just something to think about but is it because I don't agree with you? And only people who agree with you should be allowed to say those things
Nobody address my concerns about these poor children being treated terribly by supervisors and having other children and their cages having to care for them. Is it because you don't know what to say? Because maybe you think I am right? Because the supervisors are not doing what they should be doing protecting the children legal or not legal children. Are children. And when they're ripped away from their parents arm and they're crying and they're not being consoled not even by the supervisors that is heartbreaking. But obviously you people don't care about the kids
BH2, you stated; "Say what you want about their "cesspool country" Philliesman, but it seems clear that these kids are loved by their parents and brought here out of love and their parents wanting a better future for them." You do realize that the majority of these illegal alien children are sent on their own to cross the border. Where is your compassion for children when their "loving parents" place their child/ children at risk of violence, rape, etc, by sending them off to illegally cross the border with coyotes. That's a form of child abuse. Also, many of the adults are not the children's parents or can't prove that they are. So for you it's proper to have children placed in harms way but it's a crime to have them housed in safe quarters where they get food, shelter and medical aid. Once again any sense of rationality you might possess is being clouded by your liberal bias. Face it, this same policy took place while Obama was president and you liberals had no complaint then. The only reason why you complain about it now is because of your dislike of Trump. You and liberals like you are nothing but a bunch of hypocrites.
alpha1beta, I'll give you credit for one thing, spewing garbage. You stated; "Accountability again: President Tiny Hands: I can do anything
Also President Tiny Hands: BLAME THE DEMOCRATS FOR SEPARATING PARENTS FROM THEIR CHILDREN, I CAN'T DO ANYTHING (Even though my administration created the policy and this has only been happening since I took office)" Got news for you, the policy of detaining illegal alien children who cross the US border was approved and enacted by a democratically controlled congress and has been law since the Bush administration. So get off your phony rhetoric soapbox where the only people who care what you say are your fellow Trump hating liberals.
Seems like there's plenty of vitriol, hate and propaganda coming from a lot of people. You can open any HL political post and see the usual suspects... kind of odd perhaps they should start their own site or visit one of the millions of political ones out there.
Bonv Scary to see how utterly insane these people have become. Talk about hate mongers. Wow.
Scarey you accept children be in horrible living conditions. Trump and his followers ...scary .....scary world trump making it.
https://www.jfklibrary.org/~/media/assets/Education%20and%20Public%20Programs/Education/middle%20school%20programs/The%20Presidents%20Job%20According%20to%20the%20Constitution.pdf
#9 seems kind of appropriate
We should discuss, not name call. That's when people stop listening.
BC: There's irrefutable evidence that this system has been designed to deny them the legal process of coming to a processing station and *force* them to enter other ways. When they do, they present themselves for asylum and are arrested for a misdemeanor, jailed without the normal release and trial date (no they don't disappear, after all they've now got GPS ankle bracelets attached) and their children are ripped away.
Mark Mc: The AR-15 is puny versus .50 calibre turret or helicopter guns and drone strikes. Whole different situation when it's used against defenseless kids in schools. It *is* a weapon of war, just on the lower scale in a real war. I'm sure you already know that. I'm 4th generation military, Vietnam era Vet and my son the Marine machine gunner 0331 did several tours in Afghanistan.
BC: the kids are typically sent in caravans with other adults, safety in numbers, just like the one we all watched in recent months with embedded reporters. Sure it's dangerous, but even the evil people on the roads on the way here never ripped them away. Only in Amerika now. Their parents send them out of love, for a better life. Read the rest of the posts today, we already covered a lot of your points.
I agree with BH2 and am open to discuss things without personal attacks - who is with me?
Obama jailed innocent immigrant children in large holding cages :
http://dailycaller.com/2018/06/19/photos-obama-immigration-detention-facilities/
Greyhawk those were older kids who were part of a large number who showed up all at once unaccompanied. They spent a very short time there before being moved to better facilities. Not screaming little kids ripped away from their parents permanently and put in cages.
Corey Lewandowski just said wah wah about a 10 year old with down syndrome being taken from her mom. He did it live on TV. Only a monster would do that. How is anyone ok with that? Can you be ok with it and say you're a patriotic American?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/migrant-children-in-cages-2014-photos-explained-2018-5 and they were working on finding appropriate housing for these people. And they were coming over by themselves they were not being taken away from their parents especially babies when breastfeeding and and an officer taking them right away as they were being fed. Also a 16 year old girl to not have to change a diaper of an infant because the supervisors did not do it. Inhumane treatment. Trump way of doing things is wrong inhumane terrible. Obama was trying to to control the situation of it over growing number of older kids coming over so yep you got debunked
BH2, You stated; "There's irrefutable evidence that this system has been designed to deny them the legal process of coming to a processing station and *force* them to enter other ways." To that I say you're wrong. The proper and available way for these people to ask for asylum is to go to the consulate in their country and request it. If you are fleeing your home country seeking asylum you are to do so in the first country of entry, in which case for South/ Central Americans is Mexico not the United States. But these people are being told they don't need to comply with the law and all they need do is show up and they'll be given asylum. Many who are spewing these lies are democrats who set up shop in South/ Central America and Mexico to assist and encourage illegal border crossing. The United States admits over a million new citizens into our country last year. Immigrants who followed the law and went through proper channels to obtain citizenship or Green Cards. If they could do it legally then so can others.
You further stated; "the kids are typically sent in caravans with other adults, safety in numbers, just like the one we all watched in recent months with embedded reporters. Sure it's dangerous, but even the evil people on the roads on the way here never ripped them away. Only in Amerika now. Their parents send them out of love, for a better life." To that I respond, parents don't send their children off on their own "out of love." They send them on ahead because they believe the children will be granted asylum easier than the parents. And once that happens, the children can request their parents to join them in the United States. That's the tactic and it's been well proven.
And then there is the issue of who pays for all of this. It's United States tax payers that's who. And in case you're unaware, many law abiding American citizens are having trouble making ends meet as it is and don't need/ want additional financial burdens placed on them. Many Americans are homeless and in need of care but are unable to pay for it. However,we as tax payers are forced to pay to support illegal aliens through border security costs and support for families with children once they are here. Bottom line is many tax payers are fed up with paying these costs and that's part of the reason illegal aliens are not welcome.
PL, "Seeking help is legal." Correction, seeking help legally is legal. Over a million people did that successfully and were granted US citizenship and/ or Green Cards last year. They didn't try to jump ahead in line. There is a legal method and it needs to be enforced.
PL, "Scarey you accept children be in horrible living conditions. Trump and his followers ...scary .....scary world trump making it." But I guess it wasn't so scary when Obama did it. Right?
Photos of border detention facilities from the Obama-era, taken during 2014, look nearly identical to the ones taken during the Trump era.
Again read the article that I posted and also what bh2 had said. And Trump is inhuman by having people. Taking children away from their mother while they're breast-feeding. And also supervisors not changing diapers. This is not okay and if you think this is acceptable that is very sad. No child should have to go through this. The article states that they were older children who were here unattended and were not taken from their parents. And no wonder why Trump pulled out of the United Nations human treatment because they did not like what he's doing. So that is why he pulled out because he knows he's doing a horrible horrible thing that is not approved by the world. Seriously so sad I trialed as a child and these are scared. Do you think it's acceptable to put a child away from the breast of a mother you taking food from that child nourishment. And if that child is only used to breastmilk the child's going to have a very difficult time being Fed without the mother if breast milk is what is what they used to. The supervisors aren't even taking care of basic needs of changing a diaper what do you think of this? Do you think you have two acceptable for these children to be treated like this legal or not legal they are children innocent children. They do not deserve this and they're going to have long range psychological issues because of the so-called leader and his cronies. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that a child needs to be with their parents and it coming here to seek help from danger is legal. He is a horrible horrible person to let this happen period in 2018 that should not happen in America
The supervisor of the children are not even consoling a children when they cry. This is not okay especially the young young children who have no idea what's going on and have no idea where their parents are and if they will ever see them again heartbreaking
We have provided links and imperical evidence that this has been going on for nearly 20 years - why are we blaming this admin. Feel free to ignore as your overlords have instructed
Poor treatment of children. Trump ordered. Masses of families...
Also it was stated info about what last President did and why and that was better then horrible trump doing now and lack of services to the children.
Skipped you feel it's okay to take a child from a breast of a mother when they're not even done eating. And that child is breastfed so how is he or she going to be able to feed without the mother? Do you think it's okay that the supervisors are not changing diapers but there have another child change diapers what happens if there was not an older child in the cage with the younger child with a sit in a poopy repeat Iver days on in? Do you think that's okay
Obama administration prosecuted nearly 500,000 illegal immigrants between FY 2010-FY2016. They referred 1/5 of illegals for prosecution, which often resulted in family separations.
I wonder if they separate the boys from girls, over age 11 , in these mass bedrooms. and no pillows either (least of their issues). why doesn't his wife and daughter stand up against this?
The confirmation bias is strong with this one (Proud Liberal)
Bush signed the law, Obama had a similar situation happening- as admitted by a democrat- the MSM just kept it hush-hush so it wouldn't make their golden boy look bad.
You want to change the law? Tell congress. It's not Trump's job. He'll sign it if congress passes it.
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-06-17/democrat-admits-child-migrant-crisis-was-kept-very-quiet-under-obama
Glenn Beck was discussing this yesterday. Not only did he discuss this back in 2014, he WENT DOWN THERE to hand out toys and other things to the children. He tried to bring light to the situation, but no one wanted to listen. Now that Trump's president, and the Russia narrative has failed, they bring this to the forefront as a weapon. Standard politics 101. Gotta' love those "caring" democrats, letting this issue rot in the sun until they could use it to forward their agenda (which at this point, is nothing but for 1 thing: remove Trump. The couldn't care less about the children, or anything else happening in today's America. Of wait- guns. Get rid of Trump and guns.
Let's make something clear. Yup. Obama, Clinton, and Bush separated *some* families. Obama deported more people than anyone. But as far as separating kids, the numbers were minuscule. It happened when the parent had warrants and rightfully should be arrested for those. It was a TINY number of separations and out of necessity. Few and far between. Not mass separations that we see now, taking children away from people who are committing misdemeanor offenses because they are actually being forced to by the games this administration is playing to deny them the ability to do this the right, legal way.
BC - if a kid comes over and the parent later, so what? Again, we need these folks. We're at full employment. They do the horrible, nasty work spoiled Americans won't do. They provably statistically work their asses off, commit incredibly low levels of crime, and again contribute to our social security and medicare coffers without being able to collect. The taxpayer money spent on this, when done right, is *tiny*, especially compared to the 1.5 trillion dollar tax giveaway to corporations, who gave it to their execs and wealthy sharholders rather then create the jobs they promised to (most, like mine, just used it to lay off workers). It's also *tiny* compared to the money being stolen by this corrupt administration, people like Trump and Pruitt, who are looting us daily. How many millions have we spent for golf carts, expensive luxury rooms, security, meals, etc for the huge entourage this President takes to his golf resorts, which then go straight into his profits? That's not disgusting? It's our bleeping money! You can get behind *that* guy, who would screw you out of your life savings for a scam "university" and laugh at you in a heartbeat? That's your hero? Not to mention what he'd do if left alone in a room for a few minutes with your daugher, if she happened to be of a certain age and attractive.
This country was built by immigrants, including the slaves. The United States accepts far fewer immigrants than the majority of countries (shame on us). We're never going back to that vision of 1940's America where everyone is white and toting a lunchpail to their sweet factory job.
I'll remind you that Melania Trump used the family unification act to bring her family here. OH MY GOD, THE HORRORS!
Also remember that the last few years (including under Obama) more non-citizens left than came in. The net immigration was NEGATIVE. So the false talk about "infestation" and immigrants pouring over our borders is just lies. So is the MS-13 scare tactic. They're still looking for one to use as an example. Nada. They are, however in Staten Island and other places. Why not look there instead?
Taking babies and small children (any children) from their parents, who have tried to do things legally and have only committed a misdemeanor, is pure evil and horrific that it's happening in our beautiful country. What a national disgrace. So again, anyone here mad at those evil black people taking a knee during the national anthem and not offended by the shame being brougnt on our country and flag by this?
BH2,
I don't think anyone *likes* what is going on in this situation. And I think we can all agree there must be a better way to fix it (building the wall/securing the border would fix it, because it would PREVENT it from happening in the first place). But this isn't about "who built the country" or "slavery"... let's try to stick to the actual issue at hand and not obfuscate the issue with emotional diatribe.
It's frustrating because this HAS BEEN HAPPENING. We didn't know it, thanks to the democrat/MSM ignoring it for political reasons (to protect Obama's reputation). But the hypocrisy of "it's all Trump's FAULT!" is falling flat, and frankly borders on deception. It's been happening for years.
OK. So. Let's fix it. Get on the horn to your democrat buddies in congress and tell them to get on board and write a bill that will fix it- and "catch and release" is not acceptable. Congress makes law, president signs into law. This ball is in congress' court now. If the problem is not addressed, the oneness falls not on Trump- it falls on Congress.
Laughable try, frankly, "p%Ssy gate" didn't work, "russia gate" didn't work, "tax gate" didn't work, so here comes "child gate"...
If your side is serious about this, start calling congress. If a solution other than "catch & release" crosses Trump's desk, he'll sign it.
At this point I am completely convinced that Proud Liberal is either illiterate and cannot read any actual FACTS posted on this site, or just plain lives in a alternate reality.
My god....just keep repeating yourself over, and over, and over....despite how many times people have posted factual info PROVING you COMPLETELY WRONG....if you truly are the "liberal mindset" of the future...we are in VERY big trouble.
I cannot believe your consistently incorrect blinded information is being allowed to stay on the forum.
All the pictures I posted are from Obama's policy to stop families crossing illegally. BHO wanted parents to know they faced the consequence of being separated from their children.
Personal accounts from immigration lawyers tell a tale of Obama being equally concerned about unaccompanied minors traveling to the border and wanting to create a deterrent.
Here's another pic from Obama's administration:
If immigrants wants to come here *legally* to find jobs that Americans won’t do, that’s fine.
Allowing them to *illegally* sneak across the border in the dead of night because you want cheap corn on the cob is NOT fine.
JeffersonRepub -
The "wall" is not the solution. It's the most ridiculous idea yet. It was just a Game of Thrones style 'prop' to get a lot of people who don't know better fired up on the campaign trail.
Walls don't work. ANY wall, no matter what it's made out of, can be climbed over, tunneled under, or compromised in other ways. It's an insane waste of So much much money that could be used to fix our roads, bridges, tunnels, schools, and so many other desperate actual needs.
You do realize that inexpensive technology is readily available in the form of balloons, drones, etc to neatly lift small numbers of humans over that stupid wall? It's just a prop for Trump to keep his base all excited.
The drugs aren't coming over the border in backpacks. they're coming in ships, planes, and trucks and mostly from China and the Middle East. So are the people. Those being smuggled in via trucks, planes, etc are laughing at the silly wall.
So illegals can afford to fly over the wall in a drone or a balloon but can’t afford to come here legally.
Walls are certainly a deterrent. BH2 you seem to be assuming that Trump is just thinking strictly about a physical wall. Nothing could be further from the reality. Virtual walls enforced by implementing high tech are all part of our presidents plans to secure the border. Dismissing all of that to try and make a point is self-limiting your perspective as to what is actually being proposed,
And yes, physical walls do help, and of course you're correct that no security system is perfect, but the very porous border we have right now can and should be shored up substantially.
It's hard to deny the simple to understand fact that a country without borders is not a country.
Americans should want their president to secure the borders, not sure why this is so much of a challenge for so many to understand and agree with.
"Walls don't work. "
Firstly, I said "wall/border security". We DO need border security. Whether it's a wall, or more/enhanced surveillance/apprehension/etc, we need it. If we didn't need it, these detention centers wouldn't be full of people. A secure border is not an unreasonable goal for a country to have. Bush ignored it, Obama ignored it.
Secondly, the people are sick and tired of the issue being ignored, and that's a very large reason Trump got elected.
You can continue on with your confirmation bias all you want, "walls don't work", "we don't need border security", "America needs to accept everyone from everywhere" etc.... but the American people, by electing someone as non-likely as Donald Trump, sent a message loud and clear that they do not agree with you. You really have to try to understand that- this wasn't a GOP darling, not a governor, or a senator, this was a GUY- a rich guy with an arrogance problem- that even the GOP did not want- that got elected PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. You need to understand that demonstrates how sick & tired the people are of DC establishment/"business as usual."
And, where were you back in 2014 when all this was happening? Lemme guess.... you weren't aware of the problem. Hmm.... I wonder why THAT is....
kb2755 ttps://www.facebook.com/Brownberetsofdfw/photos/a.1158719984170757.1073741831.1154379917938097/2064282006947879/?type=3&theater
https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/18/us/photo-migrant-child-cage-trnd/index.html
the photo posted by some filmmaker on Twitter that made this go viral is apparently fake.
Jrepub, skippy, Grey Hawk,
I provided a link to employment stats for undocumented immigrants, it's a bit dated.
It's my theory that many of these immigrants come here to work.
It's my theory that red blooded Americans are hiring them.
It's my theory that if we heavily prosecuted these American businesses the amount of undocumented workers would fall dramatically on their own.
How do you feel about prosecuting these employers (who know exactly what they are doing when they hire illegals) by seizing their businesses, homes, equipment, capital and equity?
Do you feel that someone who hires an illegal/undocumented worker is Anti-American?
Do you feel that someone who hires an illegal/undocumented worker is putting the safety and security of America at risk, and if so, what do you think would be an effective deterrent to such hiring activity?
BTW I am not against added border security, so lets leave that out of this particular discussion.
https://pewrsr.ch/1GZn6e0
JeffersonRepub - the insane amount of corruption happening right before our eyes by the Trump administration is not "business as usual" for DC? It's "business as usual" on steroids. It's the swamp he promised to train on steroids. Trump and his minions are robbing us blind. That doesn't upset you? At all?
On border security: I'm all for it if the money is spent wisely, but we have far bigger priorities. Your loved ones take their lives in their hands just driving on our roads, bridges, tunnels every day.
Again, we are experiencing a NET OUTFLOW of illegal, undocumented people for the last several years now: http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2017/apr/26/ron-kind/yes-experiencing-net-outflow-illegal-undocumented-/
Most countries that have walls have them to keep the people IN. If this facist regime ever accomplishes their mission, you may regret that wall very much. Again, step one is turn the people against each other. Step two shut down the media. Step three take away their weapons. Step four build walls so they can't escape. Step five begin the persecution and then incarceration or deportation of anyone that doesn't fit your idea of a citizen. That would be YOU if you're not a very wealthy, straight, Protestant, white male. Almost all of you fail at least two of those criteria. They've already shown how they feel about everyone else, including women and now children.
"Country without borders is no country" Um, how many countries have walls around them and why were they built? Think about that. Every other civilized democratic country does just fine without walls. They take in the desperate people and make them patriotic, tax paying citizens.
"Every other civilized democratic country does just fine without walls. They take in the desperate people and make them patriotic, tax paying citizens." -BH2
How's that working out for Germany at the moment??
Here are more lies you're being told about this by your President.
1. We have to detain them. If we give them a court date, they never come back for the hearing. NOT TRUE. The rate of returns for court appearances has been extremely high historically. Recently the administration has made it harder, but they are attaching GPS monitors so we always know exactly where they are and they know we know so of course they're coming back for the hearing.
2. Infestation. This is cyclic/periodic depending on time of the year, migrant job availability, etc. Net immigration is *down* for several years now. The number of immigrants showing up is down also.
3. They're MS-13 gang members. Oh please. If they find just *one* believe me, they'll be parading that person around like crazy. They're easily identifiable due to tattoos. These are desparate families.
4. They're fake families or actors. If you believe this, you need help. Seriously. I doubt anyone here really does, this is major tin-foil hat Devin Nunes/Jim Jordan stuff.
5. They're not coming to the points of entry and dong this legally. They are, actually but we're creating false shortages of help there or lying to them about there being no room and turning them away.
There's more, that's off the top of my head. The point is, your President (and his propaganda TV network) are lying to you. You're okay with that?
How long before one or more of these poor kids dies due to the lack of proper medical attention and trauma? Yeah, it could have happened on the horrible journey, but if it happens while they are in the care of the United States of Ameria, in cages? What will the blowback be like then?
A country that picks and chooses what laws they are going to obey, is no country for very long.
Old Gent,
A country that makes laws that do not make any sense is asking for it's citizens to disobey laws.
I personally don't have any firearms. Don't care to. Not opposed to those who want them.
There is a thread on this forum about magazine size.
There are those who have magazines over the new limit just signed into law.
I wonder how many of those who have these magazines are going to follow the new law and turn them in.
So to those that are going to hide them, claim they were stolen, lost or damaged, you are a criminal just like the illegal that runs over the border, am I correct Old Gent, based on your statement? Can't have it both ways.
"A country that picks and chooses what laws they are going to obey, is no country for very long."
Old Gent:
I agree, which is what upsets me about watching this administration break some very serious laws every day, the ones that hold our country together, the ones that were laid down by the founders and spelled out by our constitution and bill of rights.
Do you agree?
BH2,
It's called "The pursuit" of justice for a reason.
You don't always catch it.
And all of the administrations have broken very serious laws, not just the current one.
Those who write the laws (especially those who take dirty lobbyist cash) have the ability to make those laws that are in the best interest of the few vs the best interest of all.
For example, the USA cannot negotiate drug prices for senior citizens AKA Medicare.
Trump ran on that premise. Still nothing done about it. It was under Bush's watch in 2003 and is still in place. Can't have free trade with lobbyists controlling Congress.
In this case. Trump had nothing to do with this Law. It has been in the books before he became President. It is the way this country has been going for a while. For instance, All of a sudden we have this desire to care for youngsters. Where is the concern for the millions who have been taken from their mother’s wombs for convenience?
dodgeball - Yes, agreed. Those who knowingly employ illegal aliens should be prosecuted to the full extent that the law requires,
BH2 - there is so much wrong in your false assertions that I don't have the time to respond to each and every one of them. I will say that in my opinion your perspective is heavily influenced by a terminal case of TDS.
AB1's posts are so over the top hateful they are not worthy of any response other than public shunning which i recommend all posters think about doing.
It sure seems that most conservatives care more (much more) about the unborn then they do about living, breathing children. If they cared half as much about existing kids who are suffering as they do about abortion we would live in a much better world.
JosieMarie Old Gent, regarding "this law has been on the books", so I'll ask how you'll feel if suddenly the citizens of this country are arrested en mass for violating other "laws that have been on the books" such as the speed limits, fudging on your taxes, not crossing at the crosswalk, and so forth?
Those are more serious laws than the misdemeanor laws we're using to rip these kids away from their mothers and fathers. Not to mention that they're trying to do this lawfully and being pushed away by government officials knowing full well they're sending them into the arms of coyotes who will do it the unlawful way.
You're ok with that mass arrest and incarceration when they come to get you for violating the laws of our roadways? After all, we're a nation of laws, and the laws should be enforced, and a nation of laws is no nation at all.
"the insane amount of corruption happening right before our eyes by the Trump administration is not "business as usual" for DC? It's "business as usual" on steroids. It's the swamp he promised to train on steroids."
...says CNN. ROFL
If you actually believe that, you've got quite a few more years of "paying closer attention" to do before you fully realize what is, and has been, going on.
"I agree, which is what upsets me about watching this administration break some very serious laws every day"
And yet, when they FOLLOW the law as written, you also have a problem with it. See, there's the problem: there's no winning with you people, because you will accept nothing other than impeachment and removal of Trump. That's not going to happen.
The House will be voting on a bill thursday which would solve this problem. Let's see how many democrats get on board (I won't hold my breath.)
GH,
I agree as well, but what should be the "full extent of the law?" If the penalty is insufficient, what is the disincentive? To me, it needs to be severe in order to work.
This is why I believe that good cop/bad cop is in play.
Company hires 100 illegals, makes 10 million in profits. Company wins
ICE raids place, arrests illegals(Yay, good job, woohoo) ICE staff paid millions of taxpayer dollars and get to play good cop. Taxpayer loses, Cops win. Illegals lose.
Feds step in, Fine company 500k. Company ahead, Company wins.
Feds play good cop, Taxpayer pays, Taxpayer loses.
Rinse Recycle Repeat, over and over again.
Winners: Company,(profits) Police, Justice System(make money and look like hero's)
Losers: Taxpayers,(fools) Illegals.(just plain losers)
American public: Losers, because they can't even see they are being fleeced by their own Government. But those who despise illegals feel they are getting some sort of justice so I guess they feel they are getting something for their tax dollars...
dodgeball - Yes, agreed. Those who knowingly employ illegal aliens should be prosecuted to the full extent that the law requires,
The best way to change bad laws is to vigorously enforce them.
Using your magazine size analogy, I bet we wouldn’t HAVE magazine size limits if they didn’t make exceptions for law enforcement, TV hosts, etc. Arrest a few grandstanding politicians holding illegal items because they are trying to make a point (thus they have some imaginary immunity) and they’ll think twice about passing laws that only “everyone else” has to follow.
Remember when people were virtue signaling and destroyed their guns by cutting barrels off, etc? Slap them with a felony for having unregistered short barreled rifles (SBR’s) and perhaps they’d begin to see the folly (because the mere act of possessing something with a short barrel didn’t make them any more intent on using it to commit a crime).
The main gist is - if we have a law it should be enforced. No questions or exceptions. Cross the border illegally, you get detained. We don’t care why, what you did is simply illegal.
Mark,
I agree.
One problem-they do make exceptions for law enforcement.
They do not arrest politicians, tv hosts, rich individuals- and if they do, the penalty is never the same. Eg: a female teacher hooks up with student, gets 2 years, male teacher does same thing , gets 15 years.
Judges in America have way way way too much latitude on sentencing.
Also penalties (financial) don't affect all the same.
A lawyer making 500/hr getting a 30 dollar parking ticket is less affected than a clerk at the grocery store. Sure it's an equal dollar amount, but one suffers far more than the other.
Jail time for that parking ticket on the other hand- who would be suffering more now, the clerk or the lawyer?
I'll add they are not US citizens. They have no constitutional rights at all. NONE!! Including the children. When a parent endangers the life of their child they better know the law. This law has been on the books since the 90's. It has never been enforced. Now we have a President who is doing his job by enforcing this law and he's the bad guy.
Did BH2 seriously say not crossing at a crosswalk is worse than border jumping? LMAO....
Why bother painting crosswalks?
We should just float across the street on balloons and drones.
JeffersonRepub - so the stuff that swamp monster Pruitt is doing, so much corrupt swampy stuff it's hard to keep track of, is all made up by CNN?
"The main gist is - if we have a law it should be enforced. No questions or exceptions" so you haven't broken the speed limit today, Mark Mc?
auntiel - and which country did your desperate forebears come to this gracious, welcoming-to-immigrants country from? If not for our goodness, many of us would be destitute and living on potato farms in Ireland and elsewhere.
When Mueller is done we'll have a complete, long list of very serious laws broken by this monster President. What kind of fools sit at home in their shacks obeying the rules while someone like him ignores them and fleeces people like us for years and years?
Yeah, I get it, you get your racist agenda acted on from him, but that's just a carrot to lead you into getting fully screwed in the end. Unless you're planning to NOT collect your social security and medicare.
"so you haven't broken the speed limit today, Mark Mc?"
Sure, and if I got caught I would expect a ticket.
Trump promised Mexico to pay for the wall, they said F off to him. Now he is separating family in name of law and prosecuting them(parents) to blackmail politicians from both parties for his wall.
Let me be very clear, let's leave aside the trauma and pain kids and families go through with this separation process and let's look at it's practicality.
Will this building wall and prosecution of migrants deter the and demoralise or stop illegal immigration from entire south America? Answer is nope. Wall , what if they dig 20-30 mile tunnels next to the wall on the other side. You separate families,keep them feed them,house them,provide all necessary things you provide to American inmates and ultimately deport after years of sentences instead of directly deporting them the families immediately. So you spend tax payers money to build prisons and shelters for kids,feed and house them and then after spending lots of money on them for years, deport them. What do they do after deporting? They come back. This cycle will continue
There is only one way to reduce drastically the number of immigrants coming through the Mexican borders every day. Only Mexico can do, America CANNOT. Mexico has to shut close it's southern border permanently to stop illegal immigration into Mexico. Unless Mexico do that, this illegal crossing will never ceases from South abd central America. How America can make an independent country like Mexico shut close it's borders and monitor that they are enforcing that completely with all of it's resources is an impposible task for America. But that's the only way to reduce this numbers drastically.
I'm agreeing with TheYale, BH2, and ProudLiberal:
Can't wait to see the democrats vote YES on the House bill tomorrow that will fix this injustice!!! It's going to be a great day!
Then it can go to the senate, where it will require some democrats to also vote for it- the quicker the better!!! God Bless those democrats, they know how to solve a problem!
Then, Trump signs it. Win Win Win
And we'll have the DEMOCRATS to thank for it!!! Thanks for making the country aware of it (since they forgot to during Obama's tenure), thanks for getting it passed in the house, thanks for getting it passed in the senate. O HAPPY DAY!!!
“Yeah, I get it, you get your racist agenda acted on from him”
There’s a sickness going on here if racism is once again being used as a distraction from the fact that the executive branch of government is doing their job by enforcing the law.
If the law is wrong then why hasn’t the word “Congress” been used more in this thread as it’s the branch of government that is responsible for creating the laws being enforced?
TheYale why is it up to Mexico? They somehow can deter people but we can’t? A wall with motion sensors and other surveillance along with border patrol is what will get the job done. We shouldn’t need Mexico to do anything.
IF the dems sign it JR. If they do, it goes against what they really want. Amnesty for millions of illegals.
A concrete wall alone cost 30 billions, which we were promised Mexico will pay. If you want to put in motion sensors and seismic underground activity detectors and set up control rooms and hire more resources to monitor them for entire coast to coast borders, go for it,but not on American dime and taxpayers money
"Do you feel that someone who hires an illegal/undocumented worker is Anti-American?"
"Feel" has nothing to do with it. They are breaking the law, and should be punished accordingly. And the illegals deported (and their families with them if they came together). Laws mean things. They are SUPPOSED to, anyway.
Don't like the arrangement? Elect a congress who will change the law.
We already pay over $100 billion a year on these people coming here illegally and you're worried about the cost of a wall... give me a break...
"IF the dems sign it JR. If they do, it goes against what they really want. Amnesty for millions of illegals."
LOL obviously I was being a bit sarcastic there- of course the dems won't sign it. BUT if they really cared about the children, they WOULD.
How's that "feel", democrats? Do you REALLY care about the children or don't you? You'll have the opportunity tomorrow to fix this problem- and take credit for it. Will you?
"A concrete wall alone cost 30 billions, which we were promised Mexico will pay. If you want to put in motion sensors and seismic underground activity detectors and set up control rooms and hire more resources to monitor them for entire coast to coast borders, go for it,but not on American dime and taxpayers money"
Oh good. Then you agree an actual wall is the best and most affordable solution. Cool.
This just in: Trump is caving and making a big production out of signing an executive order to stop separating parents and kids, rather than just calling Sessions and saying "stop". He'll call himself the hero. If I set my home on fire with my family in it, then put the fire out, should I expect a statue erected of me in downtown Hackettstown?
Ok, so all you law and order Trump supporters, what do you think? Your boy just caved. Because he knew this was wrong and it was costing him politically. Because it was another poorly thought out stupid idea, like the Muslim ban and so many others. Lord help us get through the next 2.5 years or however long it takes Mueller to make clear exactly what kind of corrupt monster he is.
The only thing Trump has to do is go on National TV and ask for donations from the public. He would get enough money to build 2 walls. The people that don't believe it are the same people who thought he wouldn't get elected.
"Because it was another poorly thought out stupid idea"
...passed by a democrat congress, signed into law by Bush, and ignored by Obama.
Actually, this is GREAT: now the democrats have no more ammo on this issue, and DC can get back to business as usual. INTERESTING how this whole issue (which was going on through Obama's entire tenure as president), only surfaced after Trump's great "victory" of getting North Korea to the table, and starting what appears to be negotiations in good faith... "pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!!!"
Wag that dog.
That's actually a good idea, Auntiel. If he hadn't actually said "Mexico is going to pay for the wall", I think it would totally work.
I'd rather pay for the wall than for abortions, that's for sure.
JR: U are dumb as a brick, I already said if people are not afraid to die to get in,they will scale wall or dig tunnels,Wall or not! Only Mexico can restrict number of human flow through it's borders
"How do you feel about prosecuting these employers (who know exactly what they are doing when they hire illegals) by seizing their businesses, homes, equipment, capital and equity? "
I absolutely think they should and have a proposal.:
Inspecting every employer is way beyond the ability of any of our enforcement agencies to do, and tips are uncommon.
Enter Whistleblower benefits.
Penalties per illegal laborer assessed on employers should be steep enough to make them rethink hiring even one -- perhaps $250,000 per illegal laborer.
Any employee giving information to law enforcement that leads to successful prosecution of an employer for illegal immigrants, provided that employee was the first to give that information, will be awarded 10% of the total penalties that the employer is assessed -- that is, if they have 10 illegal immigrants working for them, the employer is fined $2.5 million, and the whistleblower is awarded $250,000.
And what's more? If the whistle-blowing employee is an illegal immigrant, the whistleblower gets fast-tracked to citizenship if they want it, and immediate green-card status regardless.
"awarded 10% of the total penalties"
Dang... would have loved (if this were the law) to be the one to turn in Asplundh last year... they were hit with a $95M penalty.
The other administrations didn't separate families except in the extremely rare circumstance that someone tried to cross that had warrants and a kid. Sorry.
The poorly thought out stupid idea was the racist team of Sessions, Stephen Miller, Bannon (he's still advising), and Trump thinking this would be anything but a disaster.
You're calling North Korea a win (getting back to the subject of this thread)? Trump got *completely* played by Little Rocket Man.
"Trump got *completely* played by Little Rocket Man."
...says CNN.
At least you're back on-topic, lol.
Whew. Who needs SD, HappiestGirl, and Stymie when you've got Proud Liberal, BH2, alpha1beta, and The Yale?
I'm confused. For a week now the President told us that ONLY Congress can stop the massive scale separating parents from their children. It was echoed by Sarah Huckabee Sanders, Kirstjen Nielsen, and other administration members again and again, clearly.
Now he's saying he's going to stop it today. But he said only Congress can stop it. Was he...lying to the American public (again)?
TheYale you're the dumb brick thinking Mexico has more power to stop the flow of illegals than we do.
"So I want to be clear on a couple of other things. The vast majority, vast, vast majority of children who are in the care of H.H.S. right now — 10,000 of the 12,000 — were sent here alone by their parents. That is when they were separated. So somehow we’ve conflated everything. But there is two separate issues. 10,000 of those currently in custody were sent by their parents with strangers to undertake a completely dangerous and deadly travel alone."
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/18/us/politics/dhs-kirstjen-nielsen-families-separated-border-transcript.html
STOP CALLING IT "FAMILY SEPARATION." IT'S FACTUALLY NOT FAMILY SEPARATION IF 90 PERCENT OF THESE CHILDREN ARE NOT RELATED TO THE PEOPLE THEY ARE BEING SEPARATED FROM.
CNN in 2014 covering the "Trump created" child-separation border crisis – CNN June 24, 2014 10:00am-11:01am PDT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TK92pCdBKBs
The poorly thought out stupid idea was the racist team of Sessions, Stephen Miller,
When you are loosing. bring in the magic word. RACIST
BH2, "if a kid comes over and the parent later, so what?"
The point is there are coming here illegally and at US taxpayer expense.
What don't you understand about that simple fact? Is it you're too clouded by your liberal bias to understand it?
"They provably statistically work their asses off, commit incredibly low levels of crime, and again contribute to our social security and medicare coffers without being able to collect."
The crime statistics for illegal aliens are well know and it's high like one third of all incarcerated in federal prisons are illegal aliens. As non-US citizens they are not eligible for a Social Security card, therefore they can't legally pay into Social Security or Medicare unless they are using a stolen or fraudulent SSN.
"This country was built by immigrants, including the slaves." Yes, legal immigrants. Not illegal aliens.
"I'll remind you that Melania Trump used the family unification act to bring her family here. OH MY GOD, THE HORRORS!"
You seem to ignore the fact that Melania came to the US legally as did her family.
Once again you appear to have a comprehension problem with legal versus illegal.
"Taking babies and small children (any children) from their parents, who have tried to do things legally and have only committed a misdemeanor," Right there you contradicted yourself by first stating these people tried to do things legally and then go on to state they committed a misdemeanor. Exactly how did they try to do things legally? Did they apply for asylum at their local consulate? Did they seek asylum in the first free country they entered, which is Mexico? The answer to both is no.
Boy - came to this high traffic topic expecting to read N Korea and amazed to see the segue into Immigration. My 2 cents ... holding employers accountable for hiring illegal workers is the best way to dissuade people from coming and might even encourage the 11 million that are here illegally to leave. That'll free up some $$$ to build the Hudson tunnel instead of a wall.
MtDude "Much higher grade than a dumb brick"
Right then. Let me know when you get out of class (and you have something productive to add to the conversation) and we'll chat.
Here's a lesson for you: when you start name-calling the opposition, that means you are out of anything substantive to say. Out of ammo. Let me know when you re-load.
oh and.... psst.... the "racist" card doesn't work anymore. That's what happens when something is overplayed, especially when it's overplayed and false. You should read "The Boy Who Cried Wolf" sometime...
BC - the majority of these folks tried to do it legally by presenting themselves at a processing checkpoint at the border. However, the administration created shortages of people to process them and used the excuse that "we're full" to push them away. It was lies, they had been allocated plenty of capability to process these folks. They knew what they were doing.
For what it's worth, what Obama was doing was evil too. He got called out for it by CNN *and* the Democrats in Congress. They didn't hide like the Republicans are, and CNN called it out, as opposed to Fox, the propaganda network.
If you're worried about taxpayer expense, this new "policy" is far, far more expensive than the way it was being done before.
Oh, for those worried about the rule of law and order, more corruption exposed today, good old wealthy corrupt white Trump administration official Wilbur Ross got snagged doing a little insider trading. Such a wonderful group of people representing us.
Say what you want about Obama, and I didn't agree with him on everything, but at least he made sure he and his administration had integrity, for the most part. Now we have none at all. They're driving us into massive debt while robbing us blind. It's scandal after scandal every day now for over a year and a half.
No matter what party colors you wear, how is anyone on board with that?
JR: Nothing substantive to say, opposition name calling, out of ammo, I give you
Crooked Hillary, Pocahontas, Cryin Chuck Shumer, Liddle Bob Corker to name a few and the list goes on and on ... ....
Bonnie "Say what you want about Obama, and I didn't agree with him on everything, but at least he made sure he and his administration had integrity, for the most part. Now we have none at all" - BH2
Oh come on, you HAVE to be trolling us all with that statement.
Joe Friday - nobody went to jail from the Obama administration.
Yeah, they tried to "lock her up" with years and years of investigations that never actually found enough to lock her up (I'm not a Hillary fan by any means). But again, nobody was convicted of anything.
Let's see how that turns out for this crew. It's not looking good and we're early in the game.
here you go - you got an EO.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/20/trump-says-hes-going-to-sign-a-preemptive-measure-to-keep-migrant-families-together.html
Here's what the executive order would do, according to text circulated by the White House:
It orders Nielsen "to the extent permitted by law and subject to the availability of appropriations" to keep families together during criminal proceedings.
The measure says the administration does not have to keep families together "when there is a concern" that detaining a child with a parent "would pose a risk to the child's welfare."
It directs Attorney General Jeff Sessions to file a request with a federal district court in California to change a legal settlement that curbs the government's ability to keep children in detention.
It orders Sessions to prioritize criminal proceedings for cases involving families.
Trump is correcting the previous administrations failure to act on this issue.
Just because someone doesn’t go to jail doesn’t make them innocent. Come on. Obama’s administration has a lot to answer for.
Suze: every administration has a lot to answer for. Needless wars, you name it.
But what illegal/corrupt acts did the Obama administration do and why weren't they held accountable by the Republicans, who were in control of Congress for most of it? What evidence (non-tin foil hat evidence) was there?
good old wealthy corrupt WHITE Trump administration official Wilbur Ross
There he goes again. Right out of George Soros talking points.
Let's see, IRS scandal, NSA, Fast and Furious to name a few. Remember, not one of these people go to jail or are held accountable for their actions. Happens on both sides of the aisle. At the end of the day, all politicians suck and are only looking out for themselves in my opinion.
BH2, "the majority of these folks tried to do it legally by presenting themselves at a processing checkpoint at the border."
Answer, that's not the legal method for requesting asylum. You make arrangements in your home country. You don't simply show up on the US doorstep and expect asylum. Again, if they're fleeing South/ Central America, their responsibility is to request asylum in Mexico not the US.
"If you're worried about taxpayer expense, this new "policy" is far, far more expensive than the way it was being done before."
Yet another false statement. There is no "new" policy. It's the same policy that has been in effect for the past ten years, although not well enforced then. The costs are based on the number of illegal aliens crossing the US border due to processing and housing whether separated or not.
And although you seem to want to expand beyond this thread by griping about Wilber Ross or anyone else that's off message and I won't be baited into a discussion with you.
Lastly, you stated; he (Obama) had integrity, for the most part. Now we have none at all. They're (republicans) driving us into massive debt while robbing us blind.
You seem to selectively forget that Obama was sued over his Executive Orders three times and in each case the Supreme Court sided against him. That's known as lawlessness. DACA was a lawless EO too. Obama also nearly doubled the national debt, adding close to $10Trillion with his spending programs. Thus far the republicans have added just under $2Trillion. Not much of a comparison.
The Yale, You had a good comment earlier in this thread, suggesting Mexico should do a better job of securing their (southern) border. If they did, it would cut down on the tremendous number of illegal aliens making it to the US southern border. Excellent comment.
- Benghazi Benghazi Benghazi
-ISIS
-Iran deal
-IRS Scandal
-Comey Leaking
-Fast and Furious
-Meeting on Tarmac
-Unmasking Americans
-Deleted 33,000 Emails
-"Call it a matter" - Lynch
-Comey calling it a matter
-"It was caused by a video"
-Unmasking congressmen
-Unmasking Anthony Scalia
-Illegal Back Channel Server
-Obama changing rules to leak
-$1M Clinton Check from Qatar
-500K Clinton Check from Russia
-Rigging election against Bernie
-Paying cash for hostages in Iran
-Spying on your political opponents
-Susan Rice unmasking Americans
-Comey losing evidence and devices
-U.N. Ambassador unmasking Americans
-Comey giving all of Hillary's team immunity
-Smashed phones and tablets with hammers
-Taking meetings for donations at State Dept
-Hillary keeping her Classified clearance out of gov
-Colluding with the Media, getting debate questions
-Hillary hiring DWS after being caught rigging election
-Millions in donations to Clinton Foundation from same members
-Comey not calling a special counsel after Lynch met with Clinton
-Comey going on TV and saying there was no intent for Hillary case
-20% of all future Uranium production to Russia company owned by Putin
-Obama and Susan Rice failed to protect America from Russian influence in our election
But surely if there were even a possibility of illegal activity, the Republicans would have investigated the heck out of those things and brought charges. Well, they did and found no evidence of wrongdoing.
How long did they investigate Hillary for, years and years and nada? Mueller is only a year into it and the Republicans are panicking and saying it's taking too long. And he's already got a boatload of guilty pleas and indictments (not the good stuff though, they're saving that for the big reveal and I have a day's worth of popcorn ready for that show).
I do concur with kb2755 about the general nature of these folks holding office, no matter their party. We need term limits and a severe reduction in all the beneifts they've granted themselves so it's not as attractive to narcissistic, greedy, unethical, opportunistic individuals. Set it up so it attracts those that want to be there for the right reasons, not a bunch of lawyers and corporate types who all want to climb the ladder and take money from lobbyists.
It's over. He signed the EO. That's what you wanted. Done. Over. Problem solved.
Next! Any further talk of this issue will be moot. (until it gets challenged in court, as is already being predicted, and EO countermanding an actual law). So at THAT point, it will be... ding ding ding! ... CONGRESS' job to pass new LEGISLATION. That is the only thing that will change this permanently.
So... nothing new to report on NK, and the "family separation" issue has been solved, albeit only temporarily....
/thread.
I'm so happy. We did it we call the congressman and everybody in office and we got Trump to sign to let the family stay together. We must unite and stay strong and hope these people this just shows that if we gather and rally and things can happen I'm so excited we did it liberals we got president no heart to do something finally good. This is the best thing that ever happened since no heart president took office. This just goes to show that we have to be together and unite and things will get done. Hopefully next impeach
alpha1beta For your information. I turned off Hannity and Rush off years ago, when they bent over backward defending the first Bush. I even wrote to them, telling them so. All so I am retired living in my Man Cave.
I've never heard such sh-t coming out of a Leader. We must be laughed by other countries, and I should cover my ears and eyes due to friggin' shame, but don't because I need to know what he does next. so horrible.
let's see if his ex Cohen spills the beans. let's see what happens if he takes a lie detector test for knowing about theh pay off of the porn star and for sleeping with her.
HOW CAN SOMEONE, ESPECIALLY IN HIS POSITION, JUST LIE, FIB WITH B.S. COMING OUT OF THAT MOUTH ALL THE TIME AND GET AWAY WITH IT so far. HIS EGO WILL DROP AND EVENTUALLY SOME THING WILL OCCUR, OR A SERIES OF LIES AND WRONGDOINGS UNDER OATH OR IN COURT, OR WITNESSESS (PAST FRIENDS, LAWYERS AND COWORKERS) WILL EVENTUALLLY SQUAL ON HIS WRONGDOINGS, THAT WILL LAND HIM IMPEACHED, HEAVILY FINED. SO MUCH CRAP EVERY DAY, SOMETHING NEW ALMOST EVERY DAY THAT IS CRAZY.
Michael Cohen and the Russian Investigation, Stomy Daniels, and all the rest. Cohen resigned his position and attached the DT administration today. Hope he "flips" fully and cooperates with Federal Investigators. Why go to Jail for covering up for him!
alpha1beta, hope you didn't strain your arm while patting yourself on the back for being so conceited.
I agree with JeffersonRepub (what the...?). We've beat this separation thing to death and it looks like except for some ugly loose strings that will hang around for quite some time, it's done with.
I'm gonna back away from this thread now (do I hear applause?). Sorry I overposted these past two days, I was on a break. Now I have to get back to work, my boss is an ahole slave-driver liberal. (I work for myself).
I did really enjoy the discussion, all sides. We're all together on this blue marble hurtling through space-white, black, brown, rainbow. Who knows what's out there waiting for us.
Turk 
Metsman: Of course, they can if they want to! To what extent depends on how we have treated them over the years and how much money and resources they want to put in to make the flow of human thinner for America.The real journey for America starts in in Mexico. All Central and southern american illegal immigrants don't fly economy class into here,they travel through land via Mexico.so Mexico can restrict number of these foreigners, why not?
Sorry, borrowing my line doesn't make you a smart brick
JR: why are you so offended by a meme about KKK if you have not taken Ambien?
TY:
You can't offend me. I would have to give you space in my mind for that to happen. And that will never happen.
And if I want to read about KKK members, I'll look up old democrats like Robert Byrd.
JR. Good, don't waste any space in your mind on us, I'd be afriad you'd have to forget something important, like English, or Russian, or maybe how to breathe.
"oh and.... psst.... the "racist" card doesn't work anymore. That's what happens when something is overplayed, especially when it's overplayed and false. You should read "The Boy Who Cried Wolf" sometime..."
JR: You directed this to me after I posted a meme about KKK and Ambien. What triggered you think it's implied to you or anyone else here? Making fun of KKK is racist!? Never knew it until you mentioned it JR! Why don't you ask Arthur Jones,GOP candidate and a white supremacist from Illinois
https://www.npr.org/2018/02/08/583993705/a-white-supremacist-may-be-the-only-republican-running-for-a-seat-in-congress
So what’s your point, racists aren’t allowed to run for political office?
The issue raised above had to deal with accusatory racism being used far to often without any proof whatsoever. Coincidently, I just learned there’s a word for when folks do that: calumny.
YT,
That wasn't me- I didn't provide you with that link, no wonder you don't know what you're talking about.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/the-trump-administration-changed-its-story-on-family-separation-no-fewer-than-14-times-before-ending-the-policy/ar-AAyVIiY?li=BBnb7Kz
14 times:
flip flop;
flip flop;
flip flop,
flip flop;
flip flop;
flip flop;
flip flop;
flip flop,
flip flop;
flip flop;
flip flop;
flip flop;
flip flop,
flip flop
TheYale Mexico can't even control the drug cartels that kill thousands of people every year and you want them to stop illegals? That's funny...
Welp, looks like Trump botched the fix. Are you sick of the winning yet?
Now it's getting out that they're shipping these kids all over the country on commercial airplanes, buses, trains, etc and it turns out that from being incarcerated in these internment camps that have no showers/bathing facilities there's widespread spreading of lice, bedbugs, chicken pox, measles, and other fun diseases.
All being sent to a town near you (yeah, they're being sent to NJ too) courtesy of your Dear Leader. How many ways can they botch this? You might want to get to the CVS and buy yourself some Nix and a lice comb before they're sold out or jack up the price.
If you're against the administration allowing these dirty immigrants into the country, it has to really upset you that they're facilitating the spread of disease among them and then shipping them around the country to hasten epidemics.
Way to go, really smart thinking by the great dealmaker himself.
What's funny? Trump cannot reduce the number of immigrants from Central and south America WITHOUT the help of Mexico. They can filter out the immigrants there. You trying to deflect the issue on drug cartels is another example of excuses. didn't you remember when trump threatened Mexico to break up immigrants caravans and Mexico did it? Well,it all depends on how we have treated them over the years and whether they want to put in money, resources and manpower to do it for America
Yeah, I bet that being placed into foster homes (or even DHS detention facilities) with air conditioning, food, water, shelter, etc. is such a drag after the 5-star accommodations they surely had crossing the Chihuahuan Desert on foot.
If it's so bad here they should be glad to go back, right?
"Trump cannot reduce the number of immigrants from Central and south America WITHOUT the help of Mexico. They can filter out the immigrants there."
So, it's OK if Mexico does what Trump does, but not for Trump to do what Trump does? Basically, you agree with what's happening in principle, you just want someone else to do the dirty work?
TheYale, so you expect Mexico to shore up their southern border, but people like you could care less about our own. That's ingenious let me tell you...
Stop using illegal aliens as political footballs. You are race-baiters and think you can only win when they divide everyone up, and foment hate and anger.
Trump asked Mexico to stop caravans and illegals on Twitter,if he could have stopped it from here,he wouldn't have asked
So well if you think trump alone can fix it,then good luck
Illegal immigration rises for third straight month despite Trump crackdown http://thehill.com/latino/391079-illegal-immigration-rose-in-may-despite-trump-crackdown-report
Skippy,
I never baited on race,it's a shame that you feel offended by a meme on KKK, I never knew some people here will try to imply KKK means "White" people. I never meant it that way cos i am white. So, I apologise to few white people here who think I baited race and offended them when I posted a meme joke about KKK and took it personally and implicitly implied themselves as KKK meant it's them
Did I use illegals as political football? Never! I have always said deport them directly instead of separating and keeping them and then deporting them later. It's common sense, that illegal crossing need to be controlled on both sides of borders-mexico and US. They shouldn't have let in all the southern and central americans to travel up to the US -Mexican borders. It's just common sense. Not race baiting nor politics.
"Illegal immigration rises for third straight month despite Trump crackdown http://thehill.com/latino/391079-illegal-immigration-rose-in-may-despite-trump-crackdown-report\"
Which is precisely why we need THE WALL, and increased border security. Thanks for making our side's case for us.
It's the only thing we HAVEN'T tried. Perhaps (of course) we should.
https://www.scribd.com/document/381091812/UN-Poverty-in-US-Report
heres some more stellar geopolitical fake news - UN poverty report
"The U.N. report’s main contentions read like an attack on the Trump administration by the Democratic Party: America has 40 million poor people, including 18.5 million who live in extreme poverty; U.S. policies regarding the poor are “cruel and inhuman;” the Trump tax cuts aren’t working and will worsen inequality; and the U.S. needs to spend less on defense of our nation and more on social programs."
"the U.N. report’s main contentions are based on the U.S. Census Bureau’s official poverty measure data for 2016 – the last full year of President Obama’s second term."
so somehow Trump is so influential - he is responsible for poverty figures before he took office.
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/06/20/un-poverty-report-blasting-trump-us-for-hatred-for-poor-uses-data-from-last-year-obama-s-presidency.html
Illegal immigration is the largest driver of poverty for the black communities in america.
https://cis.org/Testimony/Illegal-Immigration-Impact-Wages-and-Employment-Black-Workers
JeffersonRepub - we've been trying walls for a long time. They're an outdated, dumb idea. The money could be spent on much better ways to try to control illegal immigration. Have you seen what it would cost, including all the lawsuits since a lot of the land is privately owned?
Oh geez, I forgot. Mexico is paying for it! Wasn't that the promise made to a bunch of crazed, foaming at the mouth chanting wall fans? What happened to that?
perhaps this President will realize that they way to get help from your neighbors and friends is NOT to alienate them by being a rude, obnoxious idiot. Do you think Mexico, Canada, or any of our Eurpean allies are in a helpful mood toward the US these days?
Maybe his boss in Moscow will help pay for the wall. It will keep us comrades from fleeing when he makes his authoritarian move (as soon as Mueller drops da big bomb).
BH2, Obama did the same thing by dispersing illegal alien children throughout the US. The problems at that time, such as the spread of disease and parasites were the same. Wait until the new public school year begins later this year when these illegal alien children will be attending. Likely there will be outbreaks of disease including unusual viruses and parasites resulting from exposure to the illegal alien children. Same thing happened during the Obama administration.
Cal Thomas today."If emotion is to supersede law, then just about any law can be circumvented if the emotional level is high enough." Good by to the republic.
BC - we're talking about a few drops from the faucet under Obama compared to the fire hydrant that Trump has opened. I'll guarantee you that if Obama sent kids around, they were given medical exams first and made sure to be free of parasites. This effort is the usual rushed, bumbled, botched effort by the Trump group (see: Muslim ban).
Trump & co are panicking now because the reporters are demanding access to where the little kids and girls are, so they're rushing to ship them all over the country to hide them, parasites, diseases and all. I'm sure you all appreciate that. they dont care about your kids.
There was no muslim ban BH2. You'd have to include Indonesia, the largest muslim country, if you were banning all Muslims. Get a life... You're just spinning things to fit your narrative...
ttps://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/06/13/migrant-children-housing-conditions/10402609/
June 13, 2014-'Taxpayers are paying for relocating 90K children this year who are illegally crossing the border without their parents.' Rep Cuellar (D) "The problem is the Obama administration doesn’t want to give info to Congress. It’s like they don't want the public to know"
I heard that t here are many newborns and young children missing, that they didn't wind up where they were supposed to (like hundreds (300) were supposed to go to NY, and they can only count 90 newborns & babies & young kids (approx.) in NY. what happened to the rest of them?
"Good luck with the wall which will and must be paid by Mexico as Trump promised"
I don't care who pays for it, better to pay for walls than abortions.
"we've been trying walls for a long time. They're an outdated, dumb idea. "
So when are you be moving into your tent?
Metsman - you didn't hear Trump say he wanted to ban ALL Muslims many, many times during his campaign and early Presidency? Your point is correct, it's just not practical, which is why it was so stupid. The courts agreed it was stupid (again, and again, each time they tried.)
My point is that the attempted Muslim ban was another botched effort by Stephen Miller and Trump. They rushed it out and screwed it up, just like this "zero tolerance" border policy. Measure twice, cut once, someone should tell them. But they're not capable.
And thank you, I did "get a life", it's pretty great.
First off the courts were lefties that blocked it. Second, the countries on the list couldn't be vetted. North Korea and Venezuela were on the list too. Only thing stupid is your logic.
JR: "I don't care who pays for it, better to pay for walls than abortions."
Well, to keep campaign promise on wall means Mexico and only Mexico paying for the Wall. How that's done is up to Trump! Either keep the campaign promise or not, America is not paying a dime for the Wall trump shouted many times"folks, believe me, Mexico is paying for the Wall"
Mexico pays or No Wall! Simple as that. Trump can go to Mexico,beg them, kiss their feet,cry and beg them,do whatever he wants,get his 30 billions for the Wall,then only he gets his Wall. That's what he promised many stupid number of times. He can start building the wall by donating his entire wealth while he negotiates with Mexico
The inability to have a discussion without calling people stupid or saying they need to get a life reveals a lot about a person. They're incapable of understanding that people stop listening when they start throwing insults. It displays a lack of emotional control. Is that logical enough?
You’ve posted some pretty outlandish stuff. Starting to think Proud Liberal and you are related.
"Mexico pays or No Wall! Simple as that."
Boy, I'm glad politics is so "simple", the rest of country hasn't figured that out yet. LOL
If *I* don't care who pays for it, I think you will find MANY Trump supporters will not either. As I said, alot of us would rather pay for a wall than abortions. Or many other wasteful programs.
Besides, if things continue going as they are (up; his popularity continues to climb, this "alien child gate" was the only bump in the road so far), he's got 6 more years to get the wall going :)
And to be CLEAR- let's all agree, for sake of argument, and to lessen typing over and over and over again, "wall" means "secured border." Walls in some places, increased security in others, whatever it takes.
oh, and allow me... "oh no no no no no no!!!!! A wall means A WALL!!! And if Mexico doesn't pay for it, NO GO!"
ROFLMAO
I'm actually surprised the dems launched this "alien child gate" so soon... they waited 8 years (Obama's entire tenure), you would think they could have waited a few more months, so they could spring it right before mid-terms.... the "october surprise"
JR- this child gate is no more than a smoke screen. The dems using these children as shields like ISIS is disgusting. The only difference, thank God these children are not being killed. Cowards, nothing but cowards.
If anyone here is really serious about prosecuting employers for hiring illegal aliens, you don't have to look far. All those farms on the muck hire them every year and knowingly, and have been getting away with it for years. Oh sure, they check if they have a U.S. issued ID card, which are mostly forged. Same for any SS cards they might show, all easily bought in bulk. The employers aren't required to go any further than asking for a card, even though they know they are fraudulent. They've been doing it for many years.
Boobalaa JR: U can cry and brag about trump supporters not caring for who pays for the Wall. Doesn't matter, wall cash is not going to pass in house or senate. So I don't mind people bragging or taunting here about not caring who pays for the Wall as long as money is not passed. ROFL
Of course,but remember there are some republicans in DC who don't support giving 30 BILLIONS for the WALL which was promised to be paid by Mexico by president
TheYale, Obama sent $150 billion to a country that sponsors terror that could build a wall 6 times over and you're worried about $20-30 billion?! We shell out over $100 billion annually to illegal immigration because of these people being here. We have so much other waste in government and yet this is something you don't want done which would cut down a large amount of this nonsense?! The logic of some is mind boggling... I bet everyone living along that border want the wall. They deal with this crap daily. People in Warren County NJ don't have a clue!
"How much MORE is the U.S.A. in debt now"
Your going to worry about this NOW??? The debt is so deep the U.S. barley can pay the interest without going further into debt!!!!!
Trump has added the least amount of debt over other presidents in this same time frame
In perspective in the first month in office Trump DROPPED the debt by $12 billion.....in comparison...Obummer INCREASED the debt by $200 billion in the same time frame.
Plus....the stock market has been higher then it has in 8+ years....and unemployment is at a all time low....should we go on?
If you want to know how good you are doing financially...just look at your 401k.....mine is better then it was in any of the 8 years of obummers run....but no....can't be Trump!!!!
Barking up the financial tree is a loosing battle for you HR
For those interested in the FULL story, and how these detention centers and "kids in cages" was going on back in 2014 (Obama's tenure), here's a boatload of 2014 pics:
http://dailycaller.com/2018/06/19/photos-obama-immigration-detention-facilities
Glenn Beck was reporting on this in 2014. His audience raised 3 MILLION DOLLARS to buy toys and such to take down to the children, and Glenn & his crew did just that. But nobody cared then... it's too dirty of a story to tell with a DEMOCRAT as a sitting president. SHAMEFUL.
Now, I'm not saying it's ok (the situation is a difficult one, with no clear, easy answer), however blaming Trump for it is false, and likewise blaming Obama for it is false. The only people to blame here is the media who IGNORED the story in 2014 (to help Obama save political face), and the same media who is pushing the FAKE NEWS that's it's "all Trump's fault" today, to cause him political harm. It's borderline lies.
And that goes for all the people buying the fake news story hook, line, and sinker; based not on facts but only their hatred of Donald Trump and total belief in the liberal media talking points. They are not truth-seekers.
As far as "yeah, but Obama didn't ENFORCE the law" (like that's a good thing)... the 9th circuit created the whole "catch & release" program, which led to some children being placed with human traffickers.
"Are you a family?"
"Yes" (when they were not)
"oh, ok then, you're free to go"
The crazy 9th circuit (the most overturned court in America) endangered children with this policy.
The truth matters. Some of you should seek it. It will set you free.
@JR "The only people to blame here is the media who IGNORED the story in 2014 (to help Obama save political face), and the same media who is pushing the FAKE NEWS that's it's "all Trump's fault" today, to cause him political harm. It's borderline lies. "
Couldn't agree with you more JR....it's no lie this has been going on for years....but suddenly it's a problem and totally Trumps fault!!!!!! Oh the humanity!!!! How dare Trump!!! Unbelievable really that the left is so hypocritically blind!
These media sources are moderately to strongly biased toward conservative causes through story selection and/or political affiliation. They may utilize strong loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using appeal to emotion or stereotypes), publish misleading reports and omit reporting of information that may damage conservative causes. Some sources in this category may be untrustworthy. See all Right Bias sources.
Factual Reporting: MIXED
Notes: The Daily Caller is an American news and opinion website based in Washington, D.C.. It was founded by Tucker Carlson, a libertarian conservative political pundit, and Neil Patel, former adviser to former Vice President Dick Cheney. The Daily Caller produces sensational headlines and has a right wing bias in reporting and has made false claims according to Snopes and Politifact. (7/19/2016) Updated (4/21/2017)
I don't think ironic is a strong enough word for how you perceive all negative media about Trump as being left leaning, liberal biased, fake news while encouraging others to look for other sources. You basically keep telling everyone to only read articles that support your opinion. This whole forum is like the Alex Jones writers room.
I'm not saying The Daily Caller is some bastion of 100% unbiased reporting. But pictures don't lie. And those pictures were corroborated by Glenn Beck, who WAS THERE IN 2014. Pictures are not "opinion." Unless of course you are putting forth the "opinion" that those pictures were taken in 2018 and TDC is LYING. In which case I'd have to say: "prove it." Show me they are lying ABOUT THOSE PICTURES AND WHEN THEY WERE TAKEN, and I'll give you a mea culpa. But I'm not worried.
Like I have been saying- you need to get your info form ALL sources. If you just listen to CNN because snopes says they're "unbiased" LOL, you're missing a HUGE chunk of the truth. You can lead a horse to water... by they just keep burying their head in the sand as to not upset their normalcy bias.
Nice thing to say about someone who raised $3 million for the cause we are discussing.
Carry on...
"If you just listen to CNN because snopes says they're "unbiased" LOL, you're missing a HUGE chunk of the truth" -JR
Irony is that people believe Snopes isn't biased when it has been proven they are just as biased as any media outlet. That's why it is so important to consider ALL sources, as you state, before forming an opinion. International news sources give a different perspective too which sometimes really makes you think.
If you're serious about learning more about the truth...
https://www.glennbeck.com/glenn-beck/where-were-rachel-maddows-tears-for-immigrant-children-in-2014
"I practically begged and pleaded for people to wake up to what was going on. We had to shed light on how our immigration system was being manipulated by people breaking our laws, and they were using kids as pawns to get it done."
from 2014:
"On Saturday, Beck was in McAllen, Texas, bringing with him $2 million worth of food, supplies and toys to churches in the area that are providing relief for undocumented immigrant families being held at detention centers there."
https://www.politico.com/story/2014/07/glenn-beck-hugh-hewitt-border-security-109078
Metsman,
U don't get it. I don't have problem with building the wall but Mexico must pay for it. It's not coming from govt tax payers money. I said trump can start building the wall with his entire wealth and then he could also do public crowd funding drive from all his supporters and all those who want wall along the southern borders and people living there can donate and build the wall. Nobody is stoping that. But what was promised must be respected. Trump has no right to demand american taxpayers money when he made several promises that he will make Mexico pay directly or indirectly
What Obama did was wrong too. No doubt about it. But, it was a tiny, small couple of cases where the adult who brought a kid had warrants. What Trump is doing is mass incarceration of children who came here fleeing horrible conditions and asking for asylum. They try to go to the legal crossing stations but lied to and pushed away.
The Daily Caller is about as legit as the National Enquirer. It's a joke. Yes, JR, pictures DO lie. They're often photoshopped, have incorrect captions, not of what they say they're from, or when, or where.
Question for all of you "we're a nation of laws and we gots to follow the law" folks. It's not evident that in their panicked rush to send these traumatized kids, some of whom have diseases and parasites, all around the country to hide them from us, they're breaking a litany of federal, state, and local laws. Where's the outrage about all of the illegal activity.
Question for all you fiscal conservatives: Have you seen the numbers on what this botched new "policy" is costing? Many, many times what the prior policy was costing. They're blowing money on commercial flights, paying private prisons and juvenile centers for space, etc. That's your tax money flying out the window. Could be spent to fix the roads, bridges, tunnels that people you love risk their lives on every day.
And no, it wasn't catch and release. over 70% showed up for their hearings and with the newer system it was 96% and they're using GPS ankle monitors now.
TheYale you don't get it... I'll gladly chip in to the wall through taxes. What's $30 billion distributed amongst everyone... And Mexico will pay for it simply. Just don't send them aid and get out of bad deals with them....
BH2 you're a broken record... don't talk to us about bad spending when Obama sent the deficit to historic levels... Every administration has done something dumb.
"These media sources are moderately to strongly biased toward conservative causes through story selection and/or political affiliation. They may utilize strong loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using appeal to emotion or stereotypes), publish misleading reports and omit reporting of information that may damage conservative causes. Some sources in this category may be untrustworthy. See all Right Bias sources."
LOL....4 cat is going to show concern about right leaning and word choices?!?!?!
What is your source of choice!?!?!
Hint: we have been saying this about left wing sites for YEARS....
"But, it was a tiny, small couple of cases where the adult who brought a kid had warrants."
Do you know how to read?
"The Daily Caller is about as legit as the National Enquirer. It's a joke. Yes, JR, pictures DO lie. They're often photoshopped, have incorrect captions, not of what they say they're from, or when, or where."
It DOES say the pictures are from 2014.
"Here they are, taken in 2014 during a media tour of Obama-era detention facilities in Brownsville, Texas, and Nogales, Arizona."
Did you even READ the article? Apparently not.
Prove that they're lying (that the pictures are fake, photoshopped, or not from 2014). Glenn Beck's testimony corroborates the story. You SHOW ME that TDC or GB is lying, and I'll buy you dinner. But for you to ASSUME it's automatically a lie IS THE ENTIRE PROBLEM. You obviously have no interest in searching for the whole truth. You have a story/narrative you agree with (because it further justifies your hate for Trump), and you're sticking to it, facts be damned.
So, who's to say CNN hasn't lied, hmm? There are all kinds of examples of CNN, ABC, NBC, ABC lying. Easy to google. Oh but I guess in their case it wasn't lying, they just made a mistake, right? Mmm-hmm.
I'm providing you with alternate sources- meaning, sources OTHER than the ones you have chosen to believe: CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC. Alternate sources with different information, or perhaps more accurately, sources that are reporting the information the MSM is not.
If you're not interested in searching for the truth, then you're not interested in honest debate, or what's best for this country. You remind me very much of a certain former poster who hasn't been around in awhile....
You go ahead and keep your hatred-colored glasses on, and I'll keep searching for the truth. But your attitude shows us you are no longer worth debating with.
Mets,
You still don't get it.Those who want the wall must not put it down the throat of those who don't want it to pay it through taxes. There are many who believes trump should keep his promised and get the wall money from Mexico like he promised stupid number of times. That was his campaign promised, if his fans doesn't care about the source of money then they can pay it out of pocket, crowdsource and do fund raising but should never put it down the throat of people who believe trump should pay with Mexican money.
Yale I'm against the wall as well but that argument only opens up the opportunity for the other side to say that they didn't want to pay for President Obama's policies. Which is a fair point to be honest. I think the right should be more upset that he did promise we wouldn't pay for it many times but that's a promise they have to be okay with him not keeping.
Reasonable,
Spending taxpayers money on policies are different
from campaign promises of a politcal party. There's a difference. He made campaign promise to be built with Mexican money, if he can get that money from Mexico, I don't mind him building the wall. Building wall with our tax money is unacceptable. They can't argue about policies, bush spend millions on finding WMD in Iraq, nobody's saying anything cos that was policies and not campaign promises. Bush never promised in his campaign that he's gonna used Mexican money to invade iraq. Campaign is made by political party, in this one, trump repeated himself many times Mexico will pay directly or indirectly, so let him go and get the money
"You still don't get it.Those who want the wall must not put it down the throat of those who don't want it to pay it through taxes." this is the first Tax I have ever heard of a liberal being against..
If you don't want a wall and added security then you'll just see years from now how this country will collapse as a power economically... Again... There's so much other waste in government and you're worried about a damn wall... There's something seriously wrong with people like that...
Personally, I don't feel wall is going to reduce illegal crossing. They are already scaling steel metal wall with bare hands and those tall concrete walls with tall ladders. And they are digging tunnels from Mexican town to american town on the border. So, like I said earlier, I feel that efforts to stop illegal crossing has to be put in 100% on Mexican side as well. But I don't mind if trump builds wall with Mexican money to keep his campaign promise.
I mean I'm not sure there will be much to see considering the general consensus is that immigration is a benefit to the economy.
https://www.bushcenter.org/catalyst/north-american-century/benefits-of-immigration-outweigh-costs.html
"Those who want the wall must not put it down the throat of those who don't want it to pay it through taxes."
Oh good. Then you feel the same way about taxpayer money going to fund abortions? Fantastic. The Hyde Amendment went a long way towards that goal, but the democrat party wanted to repeal it as recently as 2016.
Reasonable yeah legal immigration helps not people coming here illegally and not contributing to the pot...
https://www.fairus.org/issue/publications-resources/fiscal-burden-illegal-immigration-united-states-taxpayers
The Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) argues that the answer is clear: illegal aliens cost U.S. taxpayers more than $100 billion each year.
I think we have bigger problems and bigger criminals to worry about. Wall Street for one. The Trump administration for another.
Republican (Let's be real here, the people are the top typically vote republican in hopes of lowering their taxes) business owners who hire illegal immigrants knowingly and in mass, to avoid paying people well and their fair share in taxes. We're not talking about picking up an illegal per-diem to work on your house, we're talking about the systematic hiring of illegals, mostly in southern/red states to keep costs down and profits up.
Trump is the one ruining this country as a world power, by pissing off every civilized country and pulling us out of international agreements.
The other big one is the companies who outsource labor, who are literally putting money and power into the hands of another country. Don't agree? Well, just think what would happen to the US if China suddenly matched out minimum wage (minimum wage there is roughly $2-$3 an hour US)
Long Story short: we'd still buy stuff from them, but costs for more than triple on the vast majority of goods, especially elecontrics.
If we increased wages of lower income workers, we'd put more money into their hands - money that would be spent, not saved, which would means the average citizen has more buying power, and could afford to buy American products made by highly skilled Americans. Business owners could afford to raise prices a little bit, and hire higher paid workers, reduce the need for illegal immigrants and the opportunity they have.
And yes, some lower paid workers would lose their jobs if minimum wage rose, but I for one thing that's a good thing. I rarely ever go to the Hackettstown McDonalds, but the people working there have literally never gotten an order right. The customer service would be improved by dealing with robots, and assuming those people could find almost any other job, it would probably be an improvement for them too, vs flipping burgers. So yes, raise minimum wage to $15 an hour, come down heavy on businesses hiring illegals, and I think everyone would be better off - but it might be a rough transition period (Costs of building factories, hiring and training workers etc) and we'd have to stick to the plan and get through it.
Companies who benefit from the government (at minimum personal liability protection for ownership) have an ethical duty not to hurt the country who protects them and business owners have an ethical duty to pay taxes and obey laws.
--
Think about what $1 an hour (net) increase would do for you - an extra $2000 a year. What would you do with it?
Did you feel the same way about taxpayer money going to fund WMD in Iraq? Funding abortion is policies like the number of times GOP took us to many middle East war! I never went to policies because if we try to compare policy by policy,this argument will never end. Trump's own party congressmen and senators are voting against his wall because they want him to get money from Mexico for his campaign promise
So then it seems like the logical conclusion would be, how can we make it easier for immigrants to come here?
I like how JeffersonRepub keeps trying to nonchalantly switch the conversation to abortions lol
A liberal quoting the GEORGE BUSH Institute?!?!?!
hahahahahahahaha Now I've seen everything. I thought the dogma was "it's Bush's FAULT!" ROFL
I have to quote Obama now...
"With respect to the notion that I can just suspend deportations through executive order, that's just not the case." -March 2011
The problem is, is that I am President of the United States. I'm not the emperor of the Unites States. My job is to execute laws that are passed." (which is what Trump has been doing) -February 2013
"...essentially I would be ignoring the law in a way that I think would be very difficult to defend legally. So that's not an option." -Sept 2013
"The easy way out is to try to yell and try to pretend I can do something by violating our laws." -Nov 2013
"I would be derelict in my duties if I did not try to improve the system that everybody acknowledges is broken." (this is what trump has been trying to do with legislation) -November 2014
As you can see, even Obama knew he couldn't "executive order his way" out of this. Nor can Trump. His EO will be challenged, as it countermands written law. The LAW must be changed. That's Congress' job. But they seem unwilling to do it, they would rather play political football with the issue. BOTH sides.
"So then it seems like the logical conclusion would be, how can we make it easier for immigrants to come here?"
Actually, the logical QUESTION would be, "how can we secure our borders so that we can enforce our laws, and have only LEGAL immigrants?" We don't want ILLEGAL immigrants, we want LEGAL ones. And blanket amnesty 24-7-365 (open borders) is NOT the answer. That won't fly at all. We MUST control our border.
That's a big misconception (oh what the hell, I'll use BH2's term for it: LIE) that your side continues to hold, because for some reason you WANT to believe it: that all Trump supporters want a wall to stop ALL immigration, we don't want anyone coming here, because we are racists, or at least not very nice people. THAT is where you go wrong. We have no problem with LEGAL immigration. We have no problem with people coming here LEGALLY for the opportunities the US (and no one else) can provide. But you have to follow our laws. You must do it legally.
I really don't understand the issue your side has with law. It's like you feel you can just ignore the law whenever it suits you. That's not what "law" means.
You like legal immigration and hate illegal immigration? So your solution is to make it harder to immigrate legally, to push people to break the laws and immigrate illegally?
Immigrants have a lower crime rate than native born Americans so maybe they will have a good influence on us.
"The people are the top typically vote republican in hopes of lowering their taxes) business owners who hire illegal immigrants knowingly and in mass, to avoid paying people well and their fair share in taxes" - the basis of this is what exactly?
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/11/08/us/politics/election-exit-polls.html
by income the parties are pretty equal.
"raise minimum wage to $15 an hour" - well another socialist bastion Seattle did this. lets see how that went.
http://www.nber.org/papers/w23532
minimum wages in Seattle increased from $11 in 2015 to $13 in 2016 and $15 in 2017 for large employers.
the study found that higher minimum wages caused a 9.4% reduction to total hours worked by low-skilled workers, or roughly 14 million hours per year. Given that a full-time employee works 2,080 hours per year, that's equivalent to just over 6,700 full-time equivalents who have lost their jobs, just in the city of Seattle. Oh and the pay hikes weren't nearly enough to offset lost hours...
"Importantly, the lost income associated with the hours reductions exceeds the gain associated with the net wage increase of 3.1%. Using data in Table 3, we compute that the average low-wage employee was paid $1,897 per month. The reduction in hours would cost the average employee $179 per month, while the wage increase would recoup only $54 of this loss, leaving a net loss of $125 per month (6.6%), which is sizable for a low-wage worker."
You like legal immigration and hate illegal immigration? So your solution is to make it harder to immigrate legally, to push people to break the laws and immigrate illegally?
There's another one of your problems:
"secure border = making it harder to immigrate legally". It's a "false equivalency" as my nemesis used to say. That would be like saying locking my doors at night make it harder for people to come into my house uninvited.
And our laws & border security doesn't "push" anyone to break our laws. Another false equivalency. That's like saying "well officer... if there wasn't a speed limit, I wouldn't be forced to break it." Nonsense.
JR: Ur arguments falls flat,like I said with majority in house and Senate,trump can't pass his Wall money . So SAD! I am waiting till mid term is over like you to told me to wait.....
guess we can add time to the fake news list.. great job.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2018/06/22/girl-time-magazine-cover-never-separated-mom-father-says/725499002/
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/06/22/crying-migrant-girl-on-time-magazine-cover-was-not-separated-from-mother-family-says.amp.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/world/the_americas/father-of-girl-on-time-cover-says-shes-with-her-mother/2018/06/22/da99cf30-7644-11e8-bda1-18e53a448a14_story.html
child was not "torn" from anyone's arms, she was set down so the mother could be patted down.
child and mother were not even separated.
mother willfully SEPARATED HERSELF from her other kids left behind. and this one from her father who was opposed to the move - but he has no rights in this construct..
mother had $6,000 in savings, employed husband, children, but wanted better economic opportunities, so she paid to get to the border, cross a river illegally and sneak in and lied in her claim of "asylum"
Now we get to pay to house her and her child for a year for her due process hearings - unreal.
I mean are you just gonna refute all facts because you hate the minorities at the pool?
https://www.npr.org/2018/05/02/607652253/studies-say-illegal-immigration-does-not-increase-violent-crime
Ok so it's ok to let MS-13 stroll on in here and kill people... Thanks for clarifying that. I guess the dead bodies piling up don't matter since you want Mexico to write a check for the wall...
You are not going to "deport" MS-13. First of all, it originated HERE. That would be like deporting Asian tiger mosquitoes. Both are here to stay...
"Mara Salvatrucha (MS), also known as MS-13 (the 13 representing their Sureño affiliation), is an international criminal gang that originated in Los Angeles, California, in the 1980s"
"Immigrants have a lower crime rate than native born Americans so maybe they will have a good influence on us" true fact nobody has an issue with immigrants.
100 % of illegal immigrants are criminals.
For the first improper entry offense, the person can be fined (as a criminal or civil penalty), or imprisoned for up to six months, or both. This is considered a misdemeanor under federal law (18 U.S.C.A. § 3559).
For a subsequent offense, or a reentry (or attempted reentry) after exclusion or deportation, the person can be fined or imprisoned for up to two years, or both. (See 8 U.S.C. Section 1325, 1326, I.N.A. Section 275, 276.) This is considered a felony under federal law (18 U.S.C.A. § 3559).
You are not taking into account their population size - they have an extreme amount of crime for their portion of the population. In 2011, the Government Accountability Office delivered a report on criminal activity by unauthorized immigrants.
https://www.gao.gov/assets/320/316959.pdf
They located the arrest and sentencing records of roughly half the immigrants in local jails and state and federal prisons, and then sampled them to estimate what they contained. :
An estimated 25,000 of these undocumented immigrants serving sentences for homicide
A cumulative total of 2.89 million offenses committed by these undocumented immigrants between 2003 and 2009
Among those offenses: An estimated 42,000 robberies, 70,000 sex crimes, 81,000 auto thefts, 95,000 weapons offenses, and 213,000 assaults
Much like the population - the crime is disproportionately concentrated in border states
the below Texas Department of Public Safety report estimates that the illegal immigrants in Texas prisons had committed a total of 2,993 homicides in a state that typically suffers between 1100 and 1400 homicides per year.
"foreign aliens committed 611,234 unique crimes in Texas from 2008 to 2014, including thousands of homicides and sexual assaults."
"From October 2008 to April 2014, Texas identified a total 177,588 unique criminal alien defendants booked into Texas county jails. These individuals have been identified through the Secure Communities initiative, in which Texas has participated since October 2008."
https://www.dps.texas.gov/director_staff/media_and_communications/2014/txHumanTraffickingAssessment.pdf
so are they giving rape and murder lessons down there or what?
hey Dodgebaal- Mara Salvatrucha means “Salvadoran gang" here is the FBI report on it.
https://info.publicintelligence.net/FBI-MS13.pdf
"(U) According to Los Angeles Police Department gang investigators, El Salvadoran
nationals traveled to the United States from war-torn El Salvador in the 1970s and 1980s and settled in the Rampart area of Los Angeles, California, where they integrated with other Hispanic immigrants. These El Salvadoran immigrants established the gang Mara Salvatrucha (MS) in the early 1980s in response to continual persecution by other Hispanic gangs (specifically the 18th Street Gang). "
once again - you are incorrect.
“You still don't get it.Those who want the wall must not put it down the throat of those who don't want it to pay it through taxes.”
Someone better tell progressive dems. Nearly everything they want ignores this basic concept...
Far more people were killed in this country by white supremacists than MS-13 or illegal aliens, including at least one on live TV last year. Anyone doing anything about that?
I laughed so hard I spit out my drink about the ridiculous comment about somehow these refugees from horror ruining our standing in the world economy--while our President does stuff every day to do exactly that with the idiotic tariffs, alienating our trading partners (and the rest of the world), and giving away $1.5 trillion to corporations that we'll have to finance with more loans from China and upcoming tax hikes on all of us.
100 % of illegal immigrants are criminals.
100% of those who employ illegal immigrants are criminals.
100% of those Americans who employ illegal immigrants are traitors...
Skippy,
The natives have been infected with the MS-13 virus. It is now replicating here even with white American born females.
Your point is moot. Unless you deport American citizens that are infected as well....
BH2 you live in a bubble, so because citizens are killing people it's ok not to do anything about MS-13? With logic like that it's no wonder the Dems are tone deaf...
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/06/18/white_extremist_murders_killed_at_least_60_in_u_s_since_1995.html
77 between 1995 and 2015 - that’s comparable. Got any more of that fake news ?
My point was that it was started by foreign nationals to go to war with other foreign nationals. It was not started by US persons as you alleged.
Trumps parade today said Illegal Immigrants killed, 5,300 Americans since 9-11. Just saying.
“Far more people were killed in this country by white supremacists than MS-13 or illegal aliens, including at least one on live TV last year. Anyone doing anything about that?”
Source please.
From here, there were supposedly only 9 murders recorded in 2016 in the hate group category (no indication of group affiliation so maybe dig into the links:
https://ucr.fbi.gov/hate-crime/2016/topic-pages/incidentsandoffenses
“Crimes against persons (Based on Table 2.)
Law enforcement reported 4,720 hate crime offenses as crimes against persons. By offense type:
44.7 percent were intimidation.
35.7 percent were simple assault.
18.5 percent were aggravated assault.
0.7 percent consisted of 9 murders and 24 rapes (all 24 rapes were submitted under the UCR Program’s revised definition of rape).
(See Methodology for more details about changes in the definition of rape in the UCR Program.)
0.4 percent involved the offense category other, which is collected only in NIBRS.”
Why doesn't he just stop the chaos already? stop pushing so many limits in so many categories to see what happens, and there has been so many protests in so many categories.. Too much bad is being made into crazy issues (like babies and children separated from parents), it doesn't stop with new (negative) issues. no other one in his position --- without knowledge of US and worldwide and political issues --- ever acted so wrecklessly and crazily.
there is no way he could get voted in again. so many bad issues he's created and he's out there in political rallies in these time of crazy crises trying to get his ego up for another 4 years' win, and this 4-year term isn't even done yet. it's nutz.
Now I see why my friends don't watch TV or read the news any more. If it's not one bad new decision, isn't another bad new decision. and so many flip-flops that you don't know if his head or @$$ is up.
The ignorance of the LLDC on this thread is beyond crazy. They are committing National suicide and don't even know it, yet they vote and breed.
@PL "White people kill .....all school shootings white males"
Wow....Proud liberal...you truly are racist
Secondly...you should fact check yourself on that one!
Here is an idea....any one caught ILLEGALLY crossing the boarder gets death penalty......done deal
Does PL *really* want to get into what race kills the most people?
OK... what say you FBI?
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/tables/table-43
Short version (in case you don't bother reading the link): Black/African American, despite being 13% of the total US population, commit 52.2% of murder and non-negligent manslaughter. In fact, as a race they are *over* represented by at least 200% in ALL categories of crime except DUI and drunkenness. At least they can hold their liquor.
Look it up see for your self. Not saying only whites do but that case so far... Just like you say immigrants are criminals... You kinda hypocritic
"there is no way he could get voted in again."
I wouldn't place any bets on that if I were you. Let's not forget:
"he can't win the primary"
"he'll never win the general"
"he'll be impeached soon"
LOL
As long as the Dems, Hollywood Elites, Media bias, and the small minded keep running their mouths. He's a shoe in. They are sinking their own ship and don't even know it. It happened once right under their noses because of their arrogance and it will happen again.
I am married white man test to see how many of you hypocrites. You bash immigrants who seek to be safe. You would do the same. You are racists. If you were in there shoes you would do the same.
You left off part of there names off. "Illegal" That changes the the meaning, Proud liberal
Fk it, proud you have said you are an immigrant before. You have made many many posts. I don't agree with what your doing. You just pull a new trigger word and go on and on. Then you spout some sort of name calling. That won't help.i know it's a lot
But post links.
Yesimpc The invasion of Europe from Central Africa and Middle East...is an agenda.
The invasion of the US from Central and South America...is an agenda.
Any free trade agreement from the first world to the third world...is an agenda.
Erase borders - erase the middle class unions of the west to compete with third world workers making nothing w/no benefits ...is an agenda. Who signed NAFTA - Billl Clinton - oops liberals...
A drive to a 1 world government UN - a 1 world order by the Elites UN ...read your bible peeps it's all in there. Trump may have set them back a few years but the Elites want you chipped and dipped by the UN!
Peace out
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-8PbpFpq1M
ru I was responding to old gent comment where he said immigrants kill....all races have killed saddly and cause crime....good and bad people in every race. Just like charts showed.... Not just immigrants.... immigrants come here to seek someplace safe. So the people are passing immigrants and that's okay but if somebody says that another race also commits crime its racist? That's a hypocrite like I said before there is good and bad people and every race and in every culture. It's legal to come here to seek protection I can't believe some of the horrible things that I have seen and stories that I've heard about what the immigrants are going through. Trump signs a statement saying the families can now stay together the problem is it's going to be very hard to locate the kids and the parents because there was no formal paperwork that has been done and people are profiting off of immigrants staying at these places I think it was like 770 a night per person to stay at these places. If they just kept the families together it would have been a lot cheaper. These people are fleeing horrible living conditions. People Are People and they need our help. After all your family was an immigrant 2 unless you're Native American. Just think about what these poor people are going through. The government needs to do more to help that's poor people and anybody that needs help this will be my last post just remember this God said help those who are hungry help those who are thirsty and help those who naked. And d a r r i n e or the mortgage rates as you said some pretty horrible things about immigrants. So I will not even talk period death penalty really wow that's terrible people are seeking protection that's really terrible of you period going back to Christianity That means to help all people and Trump says he's a Christian but he's not living by the Christian morals God bless and have a blessed night
https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/why-are-white-men-more-likely-to-carry-out-mass-shootings-11252808
"White people kill .....all school shootings white males" Proud Liberal
You do realize that the 911 massacre was from non-whites. The massacre in France from non-whites. I can go on and on, but it's too much to post.
I usually stay away from these type of threads, however your hypocrisy is so evident, I just couldn't keep quite.
You have added to our ongoing problem of division.
Does your white husband know about or read this thread?
Positive, PL
Mass killers have been white,brown and black from ancient times till today.. It's sickness and mental breakdown of the head,nothing related to skin tone. We should stop prejudging and stereotyping people based on skin color as black,brown or white
Positive I was responding to how this thread is only blaming immigrants 4 problems. Like I said before there is evil people in both races. I'm tired of seeing this thread being blamed on immigrants. Not all immigrants are bad watch this post is reading. I think it's a heartbreaking and ridiculous how people think that all immigrants are terrible but they're not. I'm done with this thread. People Apache immigrants and I think it's horrible and when me posting an article about white current crimes people things is terrible but guess what white people commit crimes to not just immigrants. Both races have evil people in it and that is what I'm trying to get it. Like the example of a horrible horrible school shootings this is the point I'm trying to make not just immigrants commit crimes they're all racist have some evil people. And Trump they can office people think it's okay to express hatred and racism because he is. He makes fun of the disabled and he has called some minorities some horrible names this is not okay this is dividing the country. I simply was making an argument out all Races have bad people in it don't make this harder to see then you are.
There were no words to describe what happened on 911. It was truly awful and horrible and some people after it happened blamed Muslims for being bad. The people who did that horrible thing were horrible people but not all people in that race are bad this is the point I'm trying to make. And for a long time and till this day these people are getting harassed and treated terribly because people think that they're all bad in this race, and that is not the case. Yes the people who did 9/11 were bad however there are good people in that race do you understand what I'm saying?
Since Trump took office, and he acts were really towards other people or not white other people are thinking that's okay. Yes racism also took place before Trump but now it's more out there like the white supremacist and their tiki torches remember that. People saying that they could be mean to minorities because Trump is president stuff like that which is terrible when people bash immigrants on this thread it's okay and people don't stand up for them but as soon as white people are mentioned in the in a bad way then it's bad. Which should not be the case for either or any races because there's bad people in every race. This is the point I'm trying to make. As well.
Also what's up with Mrs trump coat and why do you need one in Texas?? I hope one day all races treated the same because they are not. White privilege look it up. I am no longer reading or responding on this. Good day and god bless America
Willful ignorance is a sad, and dangerous thing. And with revisionist history (or at least incomplete history) being taught in our schools, ignorance has become an indoctrination.
ru knows what he's talking about. This plan has been in motion a very long time. It's the "how to boil a frog" method. Thank God many Americans have woken up- and are hopefully waking their children up. Truth is what is needed. Not political parties.
We need more Ron/Rand Pauls, more Charles Krauthammers. We need more Washingtons and Jeffersons and Lincolns. More Marquis de Lafayettes.
"I am no longer reading or responding on this. "
Are you sure this time?
"Good day and god bless America"
That's God - capital G (if you're a true believer). And amen.
“You left off part of there names off. "Illegal" That changes the the meaning, Proud libera
Amazing the context that one little word can provide.
Also, best post of the day:
http://www.hackettstownlife.com/forum/849873#t851971
“As long as the Dems, Hollywood Elites, Media bias, and the small minded keep running their mouths. He's a shoe in. They are sinking their own ship and don't even know it. It happened once right under their noses because of their arrogance and it will happen again.”
auntiel, I’m not sure he’s a “shoe in” but in general a agree with the point of your post.
Folks really need to step back and realize how they are behaving: almost as bad as they think trump is behaving. Arrogance needs push back, no matter from which “side” it stems: Idiot (yes, idiots!) actors, politicians, tv talking heads, opinion writers, FBI agents whose job requires impartiality, emotionally off-the-rails internet trolls- you get the point. They are creating, through their own hatred, the exact conditions needed to re-elect Trump. Personally I’d consider voting for him just as an FU to all those blowhards mentioned above.
Bottom line: just because Trump’s personality is childish doesn’t give the rest of you permission to behave the same. Act like adults and trump will be out, of that I’m sure, but continue to act like children, like Trump himself, well then all bets are off. He could very well have another term.
"Personally I’d consider voting for him just as an FU to all those blowhards mentioned above."
And I've said all along, that is a BIG part of why/how he got elected.
Proud Liberal has poor reading comprehension. No one has said all illegal immigrants kill or commit horrible crimes. The same with muslims. No one said that either. But the problem is there are some that do and we let these people in unchecked and some of them ending up killing people. A lot of these people that call for so-called asylum have for many years just take off into the country before their hearing and never show up to it. Yeah um... that tells me they have no respect for law and order. Tell the family of Kate Steinle or the family of the victims at the Pulse nightclub in Florida that illegals and muslims are good people. They had to bury their loved ones because we have no borders and don't vet people well at all. The FBI and law enforcement have also dropped the ball many times with these school shooters. They get info prior to the events that should alarm them enough to take action and do next to nothing about it.
Let's vote in a QUALIFIED candidate: One who's gone to college for Political Science and Law and other categories of what you need with requirements. To have pure, deep knowledge of and about Politics -- prior -- to lead our whole country of states and the world, who's been IN politics prior to becoming a building tycoon, and then the President. someone who's been a Mayor, then Governor or a political lawyer. not one that is on On-the-Job-Training.
Ronald Reagan didn't act like this.
I wonder if his 1.5 years of chaos is considered experience for a new term? :-(
@ PL "Just like you say immigrants are criminals"
Umm...we have been saying ILLEGAL immigrants....huge difference.
@ PL "You are racists"
Pot calling the kettle black
@ PL "Its legal to seek protection"
Not if you do so ILLEGALLY!!!!!!
@PL "I am no longer reading or responding on this."
WE HAVE HEARD THAT BEFORE!!!!!
At this point I have no words for Proud Liberal....I cannot believe the mods have not banned her for her continual blunt racist remarks. Proof is in her posts that it is possible for people other then "white males" to be racist.... just look at her comments!!!!
Better people have been banned for far less on this site.....
After reading proud liberal's posts I actually WANT to vote Trump in for another term!!!! People like her (self privileged) are the problem in our country.
The chaos is mostly self-induced emotional turmoil though. That’s the problem in a nut shell.
The potus’ job is to *enforce* laws. Ignoring his juvenile antics, why can't we stick to looking at the law when discussing his actions? If the law is faulty then all of these crazy (borderline insane I might add) emotional outbursts should be directed at Congress, not the person whose job is to enforce Congress’ laws.
With a little help from his dictator buddies. Trump wants military parades. Unlimited term limits. The ability to pass the throne to Ivanka. His staff,along with the rest of the country, to bow in his presence. Cry and pray to his photo. He’s been going to dictator school for months now. He wants to be Kim-Jong or Putin. His behavior is indicative of a dictator. How can the Trumpers not see it? Trumpers are not supporters. They are fans. Draining the swamp and filling it with reality TV stars or golf caddies. He’s great at playing the shell game with all of us. Trump’s lies so much it’s confusing his fans and they aren’t even aware of it. To certain people, Trump’s great at hitting certain receptors. Something he learned from the celebrity life. Horrible at helping our country. Fox News says “real honest opinions” Opinions! And out of the thousands of news outlets, Fox is the only one that is not fake news. Those opinions are taken as fact! Hilarious!
Guilty-Remnant I agree with you justintime....but the problem is as soon as you start spewing that "self-induced emotional turmoil though" on others....you create a problem....especially when you are pointing fingers at all the wrong people, and continually ignoring facts....all put together with changing what people said or how things were said to meet your agenda, and name calling. "Racist" gets thrown around because you have nothing else to say....etc.
I mean, heck...proud liberal is so far out there she actually believes people on this thread have a problem with "immigrants" ever single person who stated a problem said ILLEGAL immigrants.....yet proud liberal will believe what she thinks she hears because she is just on that high of a horse.....come down to reality and talk like an adult already.
Serious question - “QUALIFIED candidate: One who's gone to college for Political Science and Law” why are you hung up on the poli Sci major. Do you want career politicians ? I would hope not
Guilty-Remnant, Fox is number 1 in the ratings for a reason. They have triple the viewership that CNN does. People are turned off by the propaganda of CNN. It's so obvious when you watch those nitwits... As far as your other comments... lay off the crack...
I see you live in Lala-land if you think Trump is trying to rule for life and pass things down to Ivanka. FDR was the only President to have more than 2 terms and he is regarded as one of the best Presidents ever. Oh and he stuck Japanese Americans in camps. People that were actually citizens. And was a Democrat! You should read up on history...
One must pay attention to the demographic, those with the most time to lay around and watch tv news all day. A substantial amount of viewers for Fox are the same viewers that still have a landline phone, Lazy Boy, a VCR, and a house that smells like Rhiengold beer. Along with a walker and an AARP card.
Anyone younger gets their news/info from Google news....
"Fox is number 1 in the ratings for a reason. They have triple the viewership that CNN does."
I ducked back in quick because something's been nagging at me.
Zero tolerance for asylum seekers who are locked up and their children taken away even when they do it the correct and legal way. When they're lied to and denied access to the checkpoints, and surrender themselves at other places, they get arrested for the MISDEMEANOR and then jailed/kids taken without a bond hearing as required by law.
Zero tolerance, the heroes all say. The law is the law, and those who break it must be arrested. we're not a country if we don't follow our laws.
But...where's the zero tolerance of the undeniable, clearly documented cases of so many Trump personnel and family members lying to Congress and lying on their FS-86 security clearance forms? Those are both FELONIES.
Hypocrites.
SF-86. And got any links for that ?
Jarred had his interim revoked and had to do an addendum which he did and it was granted.
If an American citizen got arrested for a federal misdemeanor and could not prove residency or post bail guess what happens - welcome to the MDC and you can’t bring your kids. Stop virtue signaling
We thought Trump would never win because we thought America was better. Turns out we were wrong.
"Hypocrites"
" We thought Trump would never win because we thought America was better. Turns out we were wrong."
Hard to take moral supremacy from the group that believes killing 600,000 babies in the womb every year is ok.
(the number is the most recent reported number, which is from 2014)
At least the number is decreasing- it's the lowest number since Roe v. Wade, which shows what direction American's opinions on the issue have been going, despite all the pink p*&sy hats and vile words at protests.
It’s hard to take moral supremacy from the party who ushered in Roe versus Wade in 1973. Yes, it was a Republican led Supreme Court that voted for abortion. Most of the Republican justices voted for it while most of the Democrats voted against it. Now you tell me who is morally supreme ? Hint - it’s not the Republicans.
“We thought Trump would never win because we thought America was better. Turns out we were wrong."
More than likely you thought that because of :
The 3 extra electoral votes California has due to illegal immigration (One electoral vote for every ~700,000 people and there are ~2.4 illegal immigrants in California.)
Your fellow socialists rigged the election (podesta and Huma Abedin) and she still lost
Right on JR.
Also the Time magazine cover played directly into Trump's fake news narrative. It's obvious that the hysterical anti Trump contingent, in addition to being against the majority of Americans on issues like abortion and open borders are not too bright.
The 600k number is disgusting and gross but I am so grateful it is moving in the direction it is. Praise to whatever God you believe in!
scottso @DT
You are talking political parties. I am not, I am talking people. YOUR GROUP of people.
Hillary lost for many reasons. Feel the burn supporters got burned. 25 yrs. of the Clintons was long enough for those of us who remember them well. The list goes on and on. Half the country said enough is enough. What most people don't seem to understand, we've had President after President for the past 50 years who has been a "qualified" candidate. Has gone to college for political science and law. They've been polished, well groomed, schooled and trained for the Presidency. How many of those "qualified" candidates are lawyers?? Let me ask you this, as a Nation are we any better off? Are we as a people unified after all these "qualified" candidates? When I personally look across our Nation I see unrest, despair, hatred like never before. You mean to tell me one single man who was not a "qualified" candidate caused all this. I think not. The people of this Nation have been played with years and years of "qualified" candidates and their handlers.
I've never seen so much hate groups, killings, bullyings, unrealistic promises and lie after lie after lie (no wall built becasue Mexico never agreed to pay for it!!, and calling people from Mexico rapists and whatever else that was said)) to get people to want him, and more debt now in the US. Wait until you try to collect Social Security in the year 2034. LOL.
NO ONE SHOULD BULLY, MOCK, DEGRADE AND BELITTLE OTHERS, (ESPECIALLY HIM). what kind of Role Model is he? disgusting to have my kids and family listen to this almost daily, or read it in Twitter, the internet, the news, and everything in-between.
it was a popularity contest. who's more popular now in the entertainment industry? Would Oprah win? Would Beyoncé win? Taylor Swift and Selina Gomez have millions of FANS. G-d forbid any of the below enter the race, and the winner will be who has the most FANS........
https://www.topteny.com/top-10-popular-celebrities-social-media-2018/
Great post Auntiel. Agree 100%. The fact that Trump was NOT a career politician was a large factor in his appeal. He's no "Mr. Smith" ("Mr. Smith Goes To Washington"), but he's alot closer than anyone else in a very long time.
“I've never seen so much hate groups, killings,
Bullyings” - where is this happening ?
Anyone can run.
Oprah Winfrey would win on popularity. is she qualified?
let me apply for a job to be a train mechanic or a pilot --- and let me do on-the-job training. yeah baby. you think this is different?
he built and sold buildings. and is a Reality Star (lol). something that was released to the press said that he's about (don't quote exact amount) 0ne-half million ahead (incorporating all his "loses"). I thought i'd see he had a billion dollar empire or even a 50 million dollar empire.
enjoy this thread.
brick walls.
You are all talking about the presidents character. There are very few that I would like my children to emulate.
https://www.cnn.com/2014/09/20/us/mexico-marine-andrew-tahmooressi-mental-state/index.html
Wow Mexico beat and detained this US marine for 214 days for making a wrong turn but we should obviously give deference to illegal aliens fleeing their country
Old Gent, pertaining to character, well three come to mind, Ron, Abe and Jimmy (I know, not a good president, but he had morals).
"Thanks OldGent for the wise and honest opinion about MOST president's characters"
Fixed it for you.
So lets see... FDR put Japanese citizens in camps during WW2, Andrew Jackson was in power for the Trail of Tears where thousands of Native Americans died, and everyone before Lincoln allowed slavery. But yea lets label Trump as the most villainous president of all time for trying to secure our borders. You lefties don't pay attention to history I guess. And your mouthpieces Pelosi and Waters just continue to spew out one ridiculous thing after another and are making it easier for Republicans to win come election time later this year. If you think Democrats like that have the answers, then you must be high all of the time...
How about the tolerant left kicking out Sarah Sanders and her family from a restaurant in Virginia, disrupting DHS Secretary Nielsen's dinner at a restaurant in DC and harassing Florida General Pam Bondi attending a film documentary in Florida. The sad part is that this type of behavior is being encouraged by Maxine Waters.
Yeah and then people like her will bash a business that doesn't want to make a cake for a gay marriage. One is standing up for their religious belief the other just doesn't want to serve people because of their political stance. The latter is no different than when people didn't want to serve black people decades ago.
Is that a joke Metsman? Refusing someone service because of their political belief is the same as being denied service because of your race? But being denied service because of your sexual orientation is okay? I can't imagine the mental gymnastics you have to do to justify that statement.
Reasonable,
To be actually reasonable, flip that statement around- the same holds true in reverse. Mental gymnastics indeed.
And to be clear on the SCOTUS "cake ruling", if I understand correctly, it wasn't baking the cake that was denied- it was the message they wanted on the cake that was (a homosexual wedding). He would have baked them a cake, just not put the message on it. It's similar to how some teachers are having kids recite a prayer Allah in public schools. You want to teach my kids the history of Islam, fine. I have no problem with history. But making them pray to a different God and giving them "prayers rugs" as homework projects... no effing way
http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2015/feb/24/blog-posting/high-schoolers-had-recite-islamic-prayer-class-mak/
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/09/17/school-apologizes-students-pray-allah-field-trip-mosque.html
Reasonable, well the Supreme Court sided with the cake owner. So guess what. You’re wrong. If the couple just wanted a plain cake then the gay couple has an argument. I believe the owner offered that and these two morons decided to cry discrimination. Whereas you have a restaurant that doesn’t want to feed a paying customer because they’re affiliated with Trump. There’s no laws or basis to back up this restaurant. They’d lose that battle if it went to court. That is discrimination.
https://www.vanderbiltlawreview.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/89/2011/04/Gottry-Just-Shoot-Me-64-Vand.-L.-Rev.-961-2011.pdf
https://ohr.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/ohr/publication/attachments/DCGovPublicAccomodationsNotice.pdf
Bzzzt wrong answer - you can’t discriminate based on political ideology in public accommodations
The American Court system is quirky.
It votes strongly for a man who's religious beliefs won't allow him to bake a rainbow colored cake.
It votes strongly for trans gender bathrooms. Pseudo men and Pseudo women in the same bathroom.
How is it going to vote on alien rights? The illegal ones, the little green ones ???
By the way felons, turn in your magazines. Your government made you felons with the stroke of a pen..
My recent choices were Harry Truman and Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan. from a character point of view. I am afraid the young people would not be aware of many before Harry. They are to busy tearing down statues and erasing history. They don't want to be reminded that the world is not pretty place. They may have only heard of Harry only for, dropping the bomb.
Forget the supreme court ruling for a second, that was about the trial anyway. All I am saying, is that snowflake Metsman is upset because they were denied service at a restaurant, and is saying that is EQUALLY as bad as the histroy of treatment of African Americans in America. Just want to make sure I'm getting that right.
JR: TRUMP'S character is like fart,like it or not!
JR: U can't fix trump's character and morals! Forget his presidency result, as a human being, he is horrible idol for any kids! If you want to teach your kids to emulate, trump,go ahead...nobody has issue with that. But don't try to butt in when two people are talking. I am still waiting for midterm, so that the majority the GOP has in house and Senate,they will still have it,but they can't deliver the wall now,let's see if they get majority after midterms and deliver the wall.
JR: Or did you miss me roasting you easy peasy here, that you won't let me talked to someone else and butt in to get my attention?
So you'd have you kids idolize Bill Clinton and his sex scandals? You'd have your kids idolize Bush who used BS intelligence to start the Iraq war? You'd have your kids idolize Obama who allowed a race war to start?
lets emulate Maxine Waters,Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer - the Face of the Democrat Party who are calling for harm to supporters of a sitting president.
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/25/liberals-attack-bondi-sanders-trump-667934
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/maxine-waters-la-rebellion-was-a-defining-moment-for-black-resistance_us_58fe2861e4b00fa7de165e18
In March, she told HuffPost that the horribly violent Los Angeles riots in 1992 were a “defining moment in the way that black people resisted.”
She also said, “These were people who had been basically forgotten”:
“And because of Rodney King’s beating and the current emotion that was stirring in that, it was like people were saying, ‘We’re here. You can’t do this to us. Look what you’re doing, look how you’ve been. Not only have you been with this consistent police abuse but the same people don’t have access to opportunities and jobs and health care and on and on.”
you want bike locks vs Glocks? because this is how you get it.
Metsman: Did I say that? Anything about bill or Obama?Nope! Was I speaking to you?Nope! Are you JR's sidekick? If I wasn't speaking to you or JR, why do you butt in? Can't handle my conversation with anyone that you seek my attention to start your fart class talk again? Bark somewhere else more appropriate, I don't entertain empty vessels or gibberish! And indicate who are you speaking to!
The Republicans are coming for your social security, medicare, and healthcare. Their $2.trillion tax giveaway and resulting US debt to China will jack your taxes eventually, the piper must be paid. The idiotic tariffs trade wars will ensure you pay far more for everything else, way more, probably about the time the recession kicks in.
The 1% Republicans don't care, they're set for life (thanks for the subsidized health care, they said). Are you set for life?
Putiin's ploy to bust apart the alliances that stop him from his plan to reassemble the USSR and likely world domination, destroy NATO, separate us from our allies, is all on track and going nicely. The alliance of Russia, North Korea, China, Iran, Syria, and others will be great for us, won't it? Payback's a you-know-what.
How's that 401k looking today? Just missed the worst losing streak since 1978 on Friday, but today is ominous.
Are we tired of all the WINNING yet?
Thanks to the tariffs Harley Davidson is moving production overseas.
Corporations are not patriotic. Well, maybe they were when many of the posters on here were not retired. American made as a brand has no value anymore. The greedy car companies that used planned obsolescence in their designs and the greedy workers there led us to where we are now.
Good job American greatest generation and boomer folk. You sold out your country. All you have left now is to have your local/regional public workers to bleed you out the rest of the way. Bankrupt Social Security, Medicare and rising taxes will be your legacy. A good number of you will live to see this happen-thankfully.
"JR: Or did you miss me roasting you easy peasy here, that you won't let me talked to someone else and butt in to get my attention?"
Do you even know what you're talking about? Because nobody else does LOL
"The Republicans are coming for your social security, medicare, and healthcare."
And the democrats are coming for the rest of it through higher taxes. Just ask Bernie: at least he's HONEST about it.
JR: people just need to read the thread to know what I am talking about.
All you know and have been showing is sarcasm,sad
Dodgebaal: I agree with you corporations are greedy. But I still don't understand why Trump's isn't trying hard to bring back manufacturing. China manufactures everything that are sold here. It will be difficult to bring back everything but at least certain percentage of manufacturing must be brought back, raw materials can be bought at cheaper rate but the cheaper labor there has killed the american manufacturing industries. The govt should have not allowed to export more than 80-90% of manufacturing, there should have been certain regulations. These corporations will tell they have to double/triple price, if they have to manufacture here based on operating,labor costs and other things. Sad, manufacturing has been lost like this by both the political parties
"All you know and have been showing is sarcasm,sad"
Have you finished your homework yet? No homework- no dinner!
After they're done kicking all the brown people, gay people, etc out of the country will you sit back in your easy chair satisfied, until you run out to get a gallon gas and a loaf of break, each of which will be $5?
I have plenty of problems with the Democrats too. But this guy just went full-on dictator mode today by coming right out and saying he's willing to violate the constitution and rule of law. I'd take ten more years of a normal republican even like G.W. or Reagan if we can just get this nut-case out of there before he unveils his plan with Putin to take complete control of our country.
Nobody's paying attention to the huge warning signs? anybody study up on Germany in the 1930's? Nobody worried about what kind of world your kids/grandkids will grow up in under Dear Leader His Eminence Donald J. Trump?
Better wake up and stop it now, because it's a slippery slope and we're already half way down it.
“After they're done kicking all the brown people, gay people, etc out of the country”
Um, you mean those who have arrived illegally (nice try continually painting a negative picture while ignoring reality)
“until you run out to get a gallon gas and a loaf of break, each of which will be $5?”
It’s called debt-based money. It requires (as in mandates) inflation. Surely you’re not just realizing that now?
“But this guy just went full-on dictator mode today by coming right out and saying he's willing to violate the constitution and rule of law”
Sorry, I don’t watch the news. Which part of the constitution did he say he’s going to violate? Regardless, in case you haven’t noticed he tends to say some pretty outrageous things; the real test is if he does them. What’s his score on that so far? (Saying va doing illegal things)
“Nobody's paying attention to the huge warning signs?”
Of course, but they are not what you think they are. Hint: it’s the economic system that’s destined to implode, and trump is full steam ahead! Gimme 110% Scotty! But she’s gonna blow Captain! Lol
“Better wake up and stop it now, because it's a slippery slope and we're already half way down it.”
Right theme, wrong reason. But I agree.
The ignorance of reality from the left is astonishing.
Right: Illegal Immigrants are Illegal
Left: You hate everybody you are a racist......
It is literally gotten that bad.....SMH
"After they're done kicking all the brown people, gay people, etc out of the country will you sit back in your easy chair satisfied, until you run out to get a gallon gas and a loaf of break, each of which will be $5?
I have plenty of problems with the Democrats too. But this guy just went full-on dictator mode today by coming right out and saying he's willing to violate the constitution and rule of law. I'd take ten more years of a normal republican even like G.W. or Reagan if we can just get this nut-case out of there before he unveils his plan with Putin to take complete control of our country.
Nobody's paying attention to the huge warning signs? anybody study up on Germany in the 1930's? Nobody worried about what kind of world your kids/grandkids will grow up in under Dear Leader His Eminence Donald J. Trump?
Better wake up and stop it now, because it's a slippery slope and we're already half way down it."
The EXACT same things were said about Obama. I know- I said some of them. I resembled you at one time, just on the other side of the isle. But that was before I learned and grew wiser. You too will learn, as time goes on, if you really want to.
Obama was a socialist dictator comparable to Hitler and it was going to be the end of the country as we know it. Well, we're still here. Only now the other side is in power, so the roles have reversed. Time immemorial. The pendulum swings.... it's just good cop/bad cop, from the other side....
But I must also admit, it's been an absolute JOY watching the democrats/liberals lose their collective minds this last year and a half... and they just keep digging the hole deeper, now with elected officials calling for "harassment" of opposing party members.
Skippy, your stupidity is showing.
The 3 extra electoral votes California has due to illegal immigration (One electoral vote for every ~700,000 people and there are ~2.4 illegal immigrants in California.)
1) You have no proof. No one has proof. It didn't happen. Your entire argument is based off a tweet even Trump has not tried to back up. I don't think you could find one reputable source who would even say this is possible.
2) You really believe Trump who lost CA to Hillary 2 to 1 had a chance there? California has always been a democratic stronghold. And that somehow he lost by 3 million votes and somehow that exact same number of illegals voted for HRC? George H.W Bush was the last republican to win CA, with only 51.1% of the vote. CA had more total votes in 2008 than in 2016.
3) Trumps own voter fraud commission disbanding, taking no action and finding no vote fraud.
4) Pure math even punches a hole in your story. In a state with a total population of around 40M, and around 18M registered voters - so you are saying that 17% of the registered voters are illegal? That's just impossible numbers.
You are far beyond just ignorant, but stupid, gullible and a threat to the very existence of this country, since you can't tell what is even remotely possible to be true or not.
Quite frankly, you are treasonous as your vile stupidity is helpful to all of America's enemies.
You are harmful to the county, civil discourse, and yourself. You desperately need mental health help.
JR,"The pendulum swings...it's just good cop/bad cop,from the other side" Very much agree with that.I urge all you to read this book "The Creature from Jekyll Island" by G.Edward Griffin. It is about the formation of the Federal Reserve in 1913 (and the history of central banking in the U.S..) There have been over 37 printings of this book and it is a Ron Paul must read. It is thru the printing of money and control of the monetary system that enables government and Wall Street to control all of us. It is how Bernie Sanders can shout from the roof tops that "It's FREE!" and have millions of young idiots all come out and vote for him because it is free (or is it?) The base of the Democratic party is all about free. SNAP,Obama Phone,Section 8 housing ,Welfare,Obama Care,Medicare,SS,HUD and the list goes on and on.By reading this book you will find out how we are all being played by big government and big money. The bottom line, it is free until it isn't but owe boy when that day comes, that is when the bill comes due and that is when we all pay for FREE. "Nations are not ruined by one act of violence,but gradually--and in almost imperceptible manner by the depreciation of their circulating currency,thru excessive quantity" Nicolaus Copernicus- 1525
hammer Learned some things:
There are over 30 legal ports of entry along Mexico border where people can ask to come in, and not be seperated.
Some of the unaccompanied kids were not with adults who were actually their parents.
And lots of "kids" (under age 18) are in MS13.
Hosting each illegal costs as much as most college tuitions, per person, per year.
That's a lot of money.
If we snuck into Mexico, they'd put us in jail. If we ran up hospital bills in Mexico, They'd keep us there until the bills were paid by us, or our relatives. That's not fair.
And sneaking is not a good thing.
"The EXACT same things were said about Obama. I know- I said some of them. I resembled you at one time, just on the other side of the isle. But that was before I learned and grew wiser."
Thanks for the chuckle this morning. I needed that.
MB 
Here’s the thing about that: The U.S. Census Bureau counts illegal aliens as part of the 10-year census that is then used to apportion the number of House seats in Congress to each state. That is important because each state’s Electoral College votes are aligned with the number of congressional districts they have.
https://www.thoughtco.com/should-us-census-count-illegal-immigrants-3320973
Illegal Immigrants Distort Congressional Representation and Federal Programs | Federation For American Immigration Reform
https://www.fairus.org/issue/societal-impact/illegal-immigrants-distort-congressional-representation-and-federal-programs
HRC's popular vote margin came from California - the state gave her all of its 54 electoral votes
California has the largest number of illegal immigrants in the United States, with an estimated 2.4 million unauthorized immigrants making up about 6.3 percent of the state’s total population, according to the Pew Research Center.
http://www.pewhispanic.org/2014/11/18/chapter-1-state-unauthorized-immigrant-populations/
The Migration Policy Institute estimated the number of illegal immigrants living in California to be much higher than the Pew Research Center's estimate. The Migration Policy Institute estimated a little more than 3 million undocumented residents living in the state. Of those, 70 percent are from Mexico. About 412,000 come from Asian countries. Another 480,000 come from Central America and China.
https://www.migrationpolicy.org/data/unauthorized-immigrant-population/state/CA
By comparison, the state of Texas, as of 2010, had about 1.8 million illegal aliens. And though Trump won there by a wide 9-point margin, his victory was only about 800,000 votes—so you could make the same argument that the state’s electoral votes are outsized.
https://www.fairus.org/issue/publications-resources/fiscal-burden-illegal-immigration-texans-2014
got any more of that data?
The majority of your arguments are emotional appeals that lack any form of substance. stop using faulty metrics. It's funny that someone resorting to personal attacks in an attempt to discredit those that hold opposing views considers me to be a threat to society and social discourse.
To that end I am glad the free speech thread had some impact - apparently were pretty much unmoderated now as the post above violates the letter and spirit of the TOS in several areas.
What the hell are the mods doing on this site?
My posts are being removed for speaking nothing more then factual happenings.....meanwhile in liberal-land.....alpha1beta's delusional threatening rants are allowed to stay??? are you kidding me?.....it is quite apparent whoever is approving this site is allowing their political views to choose what information stays and what information goes.
Until the "uppers" can keep their hands off a honest discussion.....it's not worth having.
“After they're done kicking all the brown people, gay people, etc out of the country will you sit back in your easy chair satisfied, until you run out to get a gallon gas and a loaf of break, each of which will be $5?”
OMFG BH2 what insane asylum did you crawl out of? No one is kicking brown people or gays out. People of various skin color and sexual orientation come to this country LEGALLY and no one says anything. What don’t you get? You can’t just walk into any country illegally….
Very surprised some of alpha1beta’s very insulting posts are allowed to stay up. Are the mods taking a nap?
Still want to know where this whole racist thing comes from. It seems like those pushing that meme might be the ones with racial biases...
I think A1s steak sauce must have gone rancid. WOW! What anger issues he displays. Can't believe personal attacks like that are allowed to stay up on this community forum. Think he needs some serious anger management classes, or an intervention before he hurts himself or somebody else. .
http://nymag.com/news/features/obama-presidency-race-2014-4/
This New York Magazine article explains the liberal paradigms concerning racism.
1. The Civil Rights Movement was the last time they were relevant - the new breed of millennials in the party have no where near the tenacity nor the efficacy that the party did in the 60's They are perpetually looking to chase that dragon therefore we have the liberal implicit demand that racism never die despite the fact that it's not prevalent in society.
2. the socialist liberal narrative actually supports Plutocracy. (looking at you Maxine "poverty pimp " Waters)
https://newrepublic.com/article/117382/obama-era-race-debate-all-about-willful-conservative-ignorance
“the left’s racial analysis of conservative politics might lend itself to careless or opportunistic, overreaching accusations of racism.”
" racial hatred plays a small role in the motivations of the major players. For them, it’s all about greed. Their policies are pitched to protect their own wealth and privilege at the expense of the poor."
the liberal worldview sees political activity as class war - straight out of the playbook of our friend, Karl Marx.
The Communist Manifesto - “The history of all hitherto existing societies is a history of class struggles.”
In bizarro world every move Republicans make must represent an attempt to kick a democrat out of their moms basement - regardless if it's better for the country.(you know - claims that good economic policy when combined with a well-ordered social structure is actually good for everyone.) To Marxists, the determination of conservatives to move on comes across as obtuse because they are still beating that drum. This also explains their tendency to vitriol and violence because they honestly believe themselves to be soldiers in some class war.
Ill leave you with this article from HuffPo on the 10 Ways White Liberals Perpetuate Racism
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/george-sachs-psyd/10-ways-white-liberals-pe_b_8068136.html
In other related news, the Supreme Court has just upheld the legality of the travel ban (which includes North Korea).
Very interesting skip. So racism isn't all one sided, as we are led to believe or accused of. Who would have thought such a thing? lol
It sure was nice of trump to sign an agreement that forces SOUTH Korea to disarm (e.g.”Korean Peninsula” refers to North AND South Korea., I always knew that Donald Trump was a liberal - i’ve always heard that only a liberal would want the good guys to be disarmed, knowing full well the bad guys never actually comply with laws....
GreyHawk: How about you and your kind stop hurting the entire world with your idiotic ideas.
You don't get it do you? I've taken to coming down to your level. I can't go low enough to meet you.
You're type doesn't like us "elites" talking down to you, so I'm jumped into the swamp to come down and argue with you, and talk to you on the level you're use to - cursing, personal attacks, childish nicknames - all the strategies of your President that you cheer for!
Yet you resent me, while others on the forum and your President say worse, spread outright definitive empirical
provable lies, ignore, at minimum attempted treason from within the country and ignore a foreign power messing with our elections. This isn't even about policy but basic Democracy.
You have sold - no, you haven't even sold, you've given away the very basics of America - open and free elections, without a care in the world, because you're side is currently winning.
You no leg to stand on, now or ever, until you address that fact.
Hypocrisy is the core and only republican value - you've given all the others away.
the only ones using personal attacks here seem to be the socialists - you in the lead.
got any of those "provable lies" ? Everything you have provided has been proved to be without merit.
Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it.” Thomas Sowell
I'm not a republican, your assumptions are wrong, dead wrong. In my view your anger level is off the charts. The way you viciously lash out at everyone tells me you have trouble dealing with your anger. I can refer you to some competent sources for help with your anger problem if you would like.
"cursing, personal attacks"
LOL you've cornered the market on that in this thread, I'm afraid.
Insults are the last resort of insecure people with crumbling position trying to appear confident. And/or you've got serious anger issues like GreyHawk said, along with extreme confirmation bias to go along with it.
Alpha strike us down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side shall be complete!
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/fintan-o-toole-trial-runs-for-fascism-are-in-full-flow-1.3543375?mode=amp
Whether you swing right or left.. This article is well thought out and well written. While it is an opinion piece, anyone who paid attention to history knows that it is repeating itselfm
peder “You have sold - no, you haven't even sold, you've given away the very basics of America - open and free elections, without a care in the world, because you're side is currently winning. ”
Ok, say what? You really need to follow through on that thought because on the surface it sounds like 100% bs. What are you talking about?
If that's what helps you sleep at night, have fun!
I can't help but laugh at your kind for dozens of reasons, so I guess we're not even!
In 20 years, it won't matter. We'll either be living in a post apocalyptic wasteland, in a autocratic dictatorship, or your kind will be dead or in nursing homes, enjoying national healthcare, social security, and tapioca pudding.
Not exactly a neutral opinion piece peder. There are some assumptions one would have to hold dear to agree with his position, namely that we don’t have immigration laws needing to be enforced. As I’ve said before, if the laws weren’t there and trump was targeting folks without basis then ok. But there *is* a basis, and if folks don’t agree with that basis then their ire should be directed toward the entity responsible: Congress.
Trump is an idiot, but he’s doing the job of enforcement, as it should be.
The Mexican Repatriation was a mass deportation of Mexicans and Mexican-Americans from the United States between 1929 and 1936. Estimates of how many were repatriated range from 400,000 to 2,000,000.[1]:xiii[2]:150 An estimated sixty percent of those deported were birthright citizens of the United States.[2]:330 Because the forced movement was based on race, and ignored citizenship, the process arguably meets modern legal definitions of ethnic cleansing.[3]:6
Widely blamed for exacerbating the overall economic downturn of the Great Depression,[4] Mexicans were further targeted because of "the proximity of the Mexican border, the physical distinctiveness of mestizos, and easily identifiable barrios."[5] While supported by the federal government, actual deportations were largely organized and carried out by city and state governments, often with support from local private entities
True Story! We kicked out actual citizens.. People who were born here.
JIT, finally, someone who is right on this thread.
Trump is an idiot (also known as a very stable genius)
He is actually doing his job of enforcing laws. (Normally his only interaction with laws is spitting in their face.
However:
As I've stated in previous posts, there's plenty of unjust laws some have been overturned. Some haven't yet.
I won't try to make the case for open borders - I don't think that's the right answer, but I think the US has a position of leadership and a formerly firm stance on human life that we should consider when thinking about how to change these laws.
Also, the particular problem I and many others had was policy, not law, of separating and jailing kids and parents, sometimes in different locations (I have heard even in different states, but haven't seen enough proof of that - maybe someone here has the real facts on this?)
Here's a few suggestions to improve the process:
1) the issue of this pretrial detention is interesting, because its a misdemeanor, which for most of us may we may not even see the inside of a cell. However, having been caught at least sometimes, fresh over the border, it is hard to say well, here's your court date now be on your way. Jail is harsh for a misdemeanor. So what's an acceptable middle ground? Maybe there's a more humane way such as keep families together and build slightly nicer camps, where a family could have a primal cabin, some tiny bit of privacy and dignity? We could also work to speed up trials so people get to plea their case faster, are, if needed, sentenced faster and can be deported faster (Plus, I'd rather see my tax dollars going to Judges than to private prisons!)
2) Make it cheaper and easier to apply for citizenship or a visa. The average american could not afford to immigrate here. This is not saying to let people in easier, but to make the process to start easier. I also think its pretty insane that it takes 7+ years to become a citizen, but that's another discussion.
3) offer the ability to seek asylum at our consulates and embassies, so if you are in real danger, we can take you out of that danger quicker, not have you risk lives trying to get here illegally, and not need waste as many resources rounding up illegals.
4) add more legal border crossings. There's 48 for just under 2000 miles of border.
5) Start removing reasons to want to come here - not by making life hell for those who do, but getting to the source of the problem. I'd rather see my tax dollars used to hunt down and penalize businesses who hire illegals, than to chase down a handful of illegals.
6) I'm going to break with the liberals and say we need to stop giving handouts to illegals. No in-state tuition at college and such Now, visa holders, legal tax payers, sure. However, we need to give them a path toward citizenship or the legal means to leave ASAP. The Dreamers need a legal path too, immediately. These legal paths should not be harder than any others.
I mean, we're giving corporations who hide money overseas a break, why shouldn't we give humans the same chance to play it fair?
JIT, any ideas to how we could start to actually solve this problem permanently?
Just another stray thought...a federalized and automatic voter registration at 18 could cut down the *potential* for illegals to register to vote. You wouldn't have to register at the DMV and such.
See something, say something...and I am saying alpha1beta is completely off his stability chair....like possibly the next nut case we read about in the news (I certainly hope not)....the things you post here (as well as other outlets) speak wonders about your mental stability.
I really don't mean to be offensive...I am genuinely concerned....the hate you spew here time and time again is incredibly concerning. You literally cannot even have a real conversation without trying to convince yourself you are better then everyone else and part of a "elite" class....give me a break!!!!
Peder,that article you linked was anything but well written. He is calling Trump a fascist what lunacy. The left is having a melt down. You people are nuts! Go listen to Maxine Walters if you need more convincing.
The "handouts to illegals" is at the crux of the problem. We can't afford it. The cost is staggering.
Why do middle class republicans go after people living below the poverty line, struggling to survive and feed their family, who utilize government assistance? A lot of people here are probably one spouse losing their job away from probably being in a little bit of financial trouble and still the immigrants are the problem.
Sean Hannity made $36 million dollars in 2017 convincing you that your financial woes are the fault of the immigrants. God forbid somebody needs help once in a while. Of course there will be people who abuse the system, all systems have abusers. But this ridiculous claim that their handouts are the problem is kinda the problem in itself.
@Reasonable "God forbid somebody needs help once in a while."
That is not the problem....the problem is the people who RELY on that help because they know it is there.
Sure you can lend your friend $20....but when you yourself are in more debt then you can ever physically pay off.....do you still hand out $20 to your friends or say "sorry I do not have it?"
It's a handout of assistance....it is by no means REQUIRED for a government to do. And the unfortunate part is the general (general!!!!) mindset has become...i will just apply for financial aide.....as opposed to EVER even looking for a second job and trying to fix the problem themselves (just one example)
Bankruptcy has become a get out of jail free card.....aid has become a easy out card....it's time for this stuff to go back the other way....it is costing our government more money then they have.
Debt = all part of the plan. Keep us working = more taxes = more $$$ for govt.
If the govt had their way, they'd take ALL our money, and give us meager allowance, while they provided housing, healthcare, food, clothing..... sounds alot like marxism to me. A classless society....well, not really.... 2 classes: the ruling and the peasants.
In the 50s (when having only 1 household income was very common) it was predicted that by the 80s we would be working only 30 hours a week. It went the opposite way... now more often than not, BOTH homemakers must work to make ends meet. And we OWE...
...on our homes, our cars, credit cards, college degrees...... and even if someday you somehow manage to get all that paid off, you still owe property taxes, and they'll take your home away if you don't pay them.
Sure sounds like planned indentured servitude to me.
Can’t speak for others, and since I don’t associate as republican I'm probably not the one whose answer you're looking for, but here’s my take: You’re asking why certain people have no “generosity”, are so cruel hearted and selfish. But by asking the question that way you are ignoring that the method you’re choosing to implement said “generosity” is through governmental force and in reality is based on the threat of injury, loss of freedom or even death. Personally it’s the method I despise, not the desired outcome.
Most people I know are generous individuals and are more than happy to “voluntarily” help others in need. It’s only when someone else (politicians for instance) orders them to, with the threat of force behind it, that the wall goes up.
Choice, or in the case of government action the lack of choice, is the answer to your question. Forced vs voluntary. IMO of course.
And, to burst your bubble further, republicans give more money to charity than democrats, who prefer the "redistribution of wealth" (read: FORCE) method...
http://www.democraticaudit.com/2017/11/17/republicans-give-more-to-charity-but-not-because-they-oppose-income-redistribution/
https://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/21/opinion/21kristof.html
All righty then: let’s do immigration.
- Illegal immigration has been down for years, not up as Trump tells you to believe
= if you think it's higher, you are living a lie and have been for two years, check out PEW studies.
- Illegal immigrants have lower criminal rates than us indigenous citizens, far lower
= if you think they have higher rates than you, you are living a lie and have been for two years, Texas study
- MS-13 rates amongst illegals are about .1% of illegals. MS-13 represents 1% of US gangs. Recent ICE gang sweep caught 1,000 members, 7% were MS-13, 70 guys out of 1,000 gang members. Yes, these are awful guys --- but they are not streaming in as Trump tells it. If you believe they are, you have been living a lie.
- How can illegals be taking our jobs? We have been at full employment 95%) since Obama was in office; now we are even more fully employed. Ask yourself, what happens if illegal workers leave given there's no one left to employ?
The biggest whopper: Trump's commissioned study, which he has shelved, finds illegal immigrants added to government revenues, not detracted as Trump has told you to believe. Not only lied to, but the truth has been hidden from you by Trump. Look it up. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2017/09/19/white-house-nixes-study-benefits-refugees-report-says/681913001/ This was at the end of 2017. Nice.
It's not lies if you just click your heels and say MAGA three times and it will be OK..
strangerdanger And now North Korea. Thank he who loves that rascally NK leader who..."He speaks and his people sit up at attention, I want my people to do the same." HE has completed the agreement for denuclearizing the peninsula paving the way to remove our nukes from the region. The agreements says: "we will denuclearize," mission accomplished!
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2017/09/19/white-house-nixes-study-benefits-refugees-report-says/681913001/
And that's only what we can see from the sky, thank god for our new Space Force, like that won't cost you and arm and a leg.
Need I say more?
Yea. But he is way behind the times. NK is old news. It is exciting times. There is a new issue every week.
And none of that matters, re: immigration. The border is not being controlled, we want it controlled, that's why people voted for him. Just like you voted for Obama because you wanted "universal healthcare". The people vote for the candidate who says they are going to do what THEY want done. We call them elections.
re: NK
You're just bent because he did something no other president was able (or wanted to) do. Tough titties.
And BTW, that's God .... capital G.
@OldGent
well, give him a break... he's got a YUUUGE read to read thru.... LOL
Actually....Don started the Space Force, lower case g....
We all want border control; the question is how do we construct the barrier --- useless physical wall or smarter deterrents. Mandatory incarceration of asylum seekers, splitting up families of asylum seekers; these do not achieve that goal.
I react to the imperative for immediate incarceration, separation of families, and the like and, I am sorry to say, the facts just don't support what the President is saying. The law does not support what he implemented, and the unintended bad results continue to accumulate.
People seeking asylum turn up for court 75-80% of the time. Of the ones who don't, a large number have just moved and don't know how to inform the court. Others skip because lack of legal representation makes skipping seem less risky than appearing and with good reason. Those without representative usually end up deported for some reason.
My point: if representation were better provided, or the process made for dummies, my guess is the 75-80% would increase to less than 5% skip.
These kids, who we used to not house, cost us up to $1,000 a day that we didn't use to spend. That's $2M a day. 3/4 of a Billion $$ per year. That does not include the cities we have built, the extra personnel, all the costs involved in Trump's new prison system that we didn't use to pay for with a 80% appearance rate that, I am sure, can be made "full appearance" given some representation support.
Now Trump wants to avoid due process to speed up deportations. He is against hiring judges to speed up deportation. Does skipping due process seem OK to you?
Once the US championed asylum rules across developed nations throughout the world. Now we begin to turn off that shining light on the hill. This is asylum, not illegal immigration.
Factually, spiritually, morally, economically, you are on the wrong side of history on this one and it can only get worse for you. Already there are stories of parents who signed papers to be deported immediately. What do you think was offered to accomplish that little ditty after a 2,000 trek on one of the most dangerous treks in the world? The facts are coming in and it looks really creepy and unAmerican.
Personally, I would suggest you reconsider your stand on this one, based on the facts.
This is lovely... I suppose the children should be in jail cells with their parents according to liberal logic...
On 6/27/18 at approx. 8:04AM the Hackettstown police assisted the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement with serving an ICE warrant on 30yro Luis Froilan Ortega-Calle of Hackettstown, NJ who lived at an apartment on the 100 block of Main St. The officers knocked on the door and a 6-year-old female answered. The officers observed the apartment to be disheveled and unclean. It was determined that she was left home alone with her 9-month-old and 3-year-old sisters. As the officers were standing outside the apartment building, the officers observed Luis F Ortega-Calle and 26yro Josselyn Eneida DeLeon-Garcia of Hackettstown, NJ turn the corner onto Main Street from the alley way next to Marley's Gotham Grill. When they saw the officers, they turned around and ran back down the alley way. The officers caught up to them on Sharp Street next to municipal lot #2. Ortega-Calle was taken into custody by ICE officers. Through an investigation it was determined that Ortega-Calle and DeLeon-Garcia left their children without care or supervision while they went to work from June 26 at approximately 11:30 p.m. to June 27 at approximately 8:30 p.m. The Division of Child Protection and Permanency took custody of the children from the scene. Both were charged with 3 counts of second-degree child neglect. DeLeon Garcia was lodged in the Warren County Correctional Facility. Ortega-Calle was lodged in the Essex County Correctional Facility.
Metsman,
What should happen to their employers?
If they are illegals, then it would be illegal to hire them, do you agree?
Do you agree that we teach those that hire illegals get a real lesson?
Seize their property, bank accounts, houses, businesses, etc?
If illegals had no jobs to go to, they would have been home with their children, or even all the way back from where they came, do you agree?
6% of the NJ population is illegal. I guarantee there are a lot of them on Main St.
Mets,
Guess that means there are a whole lot of employers that need to go to prison.
You probably frequent some of these businesses.
Maybe your favorite eatery. Or something else. Maybe your friend's business.
These illegals are being hired by your fellow "Americans."
They are just as much criminals as the illegals are.
What do you think should happen to those Americans that hire illegals?
Maybe they will wave a flag on the 4th of July as true patriots.
"Seize their property, bank accounts, houses, businesses, etc?"
No. But they (the employers) should be prosecuted for breaking the law, LIKE ALL CRIMINALS (and, illegal aliens being criminals by definition)
What is the rule of law for?
Or do you only like the rule of law when it's going against someone you dislike?
He's back! My scroll down button has gotten dusty. He is who he is. I would rather have SD back than what's been here lately. With SD it's kind of a Love/Hate relationship. Welcome home!!!
Maybe they should go after the people who hire illegals, as some previously posted. If there’s no work waiting for them, they won’t want to come here. They work off the books , for peanuts,14 hour days, picking produce, in horrible weather, so they can send a few bucks back to their family. Some traveled for thousands of miles, to escape even more dangerous conditions, than enroute to America. A lot of them probably still think America is a warm and fuzzy place to be. Big companies like Wal-Mart or Whole Foods may have to hire people, already here legally to work in their fields. At least minimum wages, benefits extra book keeping, etc..That’ll go over, like a lead balloon. Why isn’t anybody questioning the ultra wealthy, who hire cheap, illegal, low wage, no benefits help? It was the wealthy greed that fueled (and still does) people to come to the land of opportunity. Need to start at the top 1%. Look into their hiring practices and every employee they govern.
the landlord is responsible for the renters,that is why we have leases..i am sure they did not,maybe Hackettstown and the zoning office should pay more attention instead of a blind eye...the heath dept. should now inspect the apt's for deplorable and un sanitary conditions.
http://money.cnn.com/2017/03/16/news/economy/immigrant-workers-jobs/index.html
building trades are the biggest offenders -
“the landlord is responsible for the renters”
How so? Is it like e-verify but for landlords?
Speaking of e-verify, is asking employers to be an extension of law enforcement still optional in nj? Last I heard it was still voluntary.
JR and Metsman are in agreement.
Those that hire illegals should be punished. Yet they are against this"
"Seize their property, bank accounts, houses, businesses, etc?"
This would be a great deterrent-so why be against this?
It's a matter of national security. These employers are risking American lives, bringing in , as has been stated , MS-13 type characters into the USA.
What real Red blooded American would not consider these employers traitors?
Bottom line is these employers, that Metsman and JRepub want punished by law, really know that the current law makes the punishment so lenient that it is clearly ineffective. It's like giving Trump a parking ticket.
These employers need jail time, and all of their property and assets forfeited. The illegals would go home with no work, and no wall would be required, (we could build one anyway just for fun, I'm ok with it..
Anyone who is not willing to SEVERELY punish these employers are not really interested in solving the problem, they want to enjoy the benefits of cheap labor, then look like American hero's thru virtue signaling.
LMFAO...look who came crawling back!!!!
Now back to ignoring him!
But just one thing stuck out....@SD "Does skipping due process seem OK to you? "
Hmmm....you seemed fine with this when it came to gun laws......
“What real Red blooded American would not consider these employers traitors”
Red blooded American? And jail time and asset forfeiture?
Keep piling it on lol. Maybe some more trigger words will help!
"This would be a great deterrent-so why be against this?"
Because it's not "punishment", it's tyranny.
And no, they are not "traitors", any more than any other criminal is a traitor. They broke a law, they didn't share top secret state secrets. "Traitor" is reserved for very specific actions.
Why not just start chopping of people's hands if they get caught shoplifting? After all, it would be a great deterrent. Hey, the muslims do it....
TY Auntiem, I think....
"This is lovely... I suppose the children should be in jail cells with their parents according to liberal logic..." No, we should rip families apart over misdemeanors and put the kids in tents in 100+ weather. Then we tell the parents, sign this or never see your kids again, and then we deport them without their kids. I suppose you think that's better. Now we want to take judges out of the equation and just process em in some manner as desired by the President completely obliterating their rights and the rule of law. Lovely indeed.
"Time to do a clean sweep of Main St. This town is getting ridiculous..." What are we sweeping here Mets? Pedophiles? Illegals? Latinos? Men? One or more of the above? Can we come to your house to check under the beds? Is this the same guy that the ICE guys got?
Meanwhile.....
Undocumented workers. I have said for years, just make e-verify the law of the land, problem solved. Right now 20 states have partial or full support. No wall needed for that. No need to police employers for every hire. Just make e-verify work, ez-to-use, and universal --- just like we do gun control, heh, heh... E-verify seems like a pretty good system in pretty good shape, make it so. It's not perfect but AZ has used since 2008 and I would gather a wall-builder could make e-verify run smooth as silk: http://money.cnn.com/2017/02/28/news/economy/e-verify-immigration/index.html
Asylum seekers: quit separating families, quit incarcerating, just vet, release with a court date. We will save BILLIONS, 80% will turn up for court, we can get to 95% with better representation process, perhaps some ankle bracelets, whatever ---- but let's stop building a new prison system. These folks are less criminally inclined than the indigenous peoples, so let's just move on.
“LMFAO...look who came crawling back!!!!” My, that seems a tad rude, no? “Hmmm....you seemed fine with this when it came to gun laws......” Whatever do you mean?
“Yea. But he is way behind the times. NK is old news. It is exciting times. There is a new issue every week.” Good to see you again too. Yes, a Trump tactic to keep the new ball rolling works well when folks look at yesterday’s news as passé or superseded.
Did you click your heels, say MAGA three times and salute when you act like he wants you to act? Because while you may have agreed with the repeater-in-Chief that the peninsula, including SK which apparently we think for, denuclearize, I think it’s just some locker-room talk and hope you will not agree with what he says about North Korea.
So far it’s really just a photo op.
Perhaps the fact that NK proceeds to expand nuclear research facilities is old news. Is that because you believe the mission is accomplished? Reactors are being made ready to produce fissionable materials like plutonium.
There is no plan, there is no planned meetings, there isn’t even a North Korean counterpart to Pompeo for these negotiations.
But the real reason for relevancy here is this question, to which none of us have the answer: “what’s Trump’s next move when he doesn’t get what he said he would.”
80% WILL SHOW UP IN COURT...lol ....2 different people on Main street..The kids are better off with child services than with these parents.
Why is it ok for other countries to randomly ask for paperwork but if we do it here it's racism? People, mainly liberals need to pull their heads out of the sand...
"80% WILL SHOW UP IN COURT...lol" Apples and oranges of illegal immigration, asylum seekers, and two child abusers on Main Street. Sorry and yes, these kids are not all right and child services is a good idea.
However.....ripping kids from parents over a misdemeanor is not only cruel and unusual, but also expensive, inefficient, and ineffective. Most of these families, around 80%, will turn up to court. The 20% gap can probably be closed via better representation and some leg bracelets. My link: http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2018/jun/26/wolf-blitzer/majority-undocumented-immigrants-show-court-data-s/
Point is asylum seekers are first vetted for authenticity. If we vet correctly, they are most likely seeking asylum as we vetted. If they have representation, and the vetting is good, chances are they will be granted asylum, over 50% make it. If they don't have representation, chances are they will be deported, 90% are deported.
So, if we vet well, if we create a better representation system (or one that does not require it), if we bracelet track any higher-risk folks, we could spare the family being ripped apart, a few billion $$$ of year we JUST STARTED spending for our new prison tent farms, without destroying America as we know it, IMO.
@SD "My, that seems a tad rude, no? "
Your the one that said bye for good....then came back not even a month later.....
"“Hmmm....you seemed fine with this when it came to gun laws......” Whatever do you mean?"
Your already going to start playing like you have no idea what I am talking about...man sometimes I wish I was a liberal....life must be so much easier to answer to when you just "selectively" forget things you said.
Here is an idea for everyone.....it's no secret that the boarder is hammering down....so how about NOT trying to illegally cross it with your KIDS no less??
SD, you are worried about the kids in 100 degree heat...in a tent??? Do you have any idea what it takes to attempt to cross the boarder? Compared to the trip and endangerment their parents just put them through that's a 5 star resort! Misdemeanor? The parents should be jailed for child endangerment!!!
You say we cannot spend any tax money on a wall, but it's totally fine to be dumping millions on the thousands of people trying to ILLEGALLY cross our boarder...and give them air conditioning already!!!!!! Really???? You have to be kidding me!!!!!!!!
so your proposal is to release these folks into america and hope that 6-8 out of 10 show up for court. meanwhile how are they supporting themselves?
"The report used figures from the Executive Office for Immigration Review, which is tasked by the Justice Department with handling immigration court proceedings, appellate reviews and administrative hearings. Between 2003 and 2012, the percentage of all immigrants who failed to appear in court after being released has bounced between 20 percent and 40 percent, settling in at about 30 percent at the end of that time span. (No data for children specifically is available from this long-running data set.)"
http://bipartisanpolicy.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/default/files/BPC%20Immigration%20Task%20Force%20-%20Child%20Migration%20by%20the%20Numbers%20June%202014.pdf#page=8
But the real reason for relevancy here is this question, to which none of us have the answer: “what’s Trump’s next move when he doesn’t get what he said he would.”
I would never try to second guess him. So far a great Supreme court pick and exposing the Swamp that been filling up for years. It will take years to drain it. If he gets the wall built, That would be great. The first rule for Government is to protect us.
Gee, it seems the EU leaders (who regularly criticize Trump) are also setting up immigrant "processing centers" for asylum seekers and completely turning away (or shipping off to Libya) what they call "irregular migrants".
https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/28/europe/italy-eu-summit-migrant-crisis/index.html
https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/29/europe/angela-merkel-migration-deal-shubert-intl/index.html
Maybe enforcing our laws against illegal immigration isn't such a crazy/unique idea after all?
"put the kids in tents in 100+ weather."
Tents with air conditioning...
Yeah, the porta-johns probably suck in that heat, but its still better than wiping your butt with a cactus.
I'm really enjoying all the fake Christians on this site. Wonder how Jesus would treat these "criminals" trying to escape hellish conditions in their home country to give their kids a better life. The lack of compassion and empathy shown by so called Christian on this site is pathetic
Peace B with U I never advocated removing body parts for shoplifting, enough with the drama. Just financial and jail sentences, this is not capital punishment.
"They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists."
And MS-13.
Traitor:
a person who betrays a friend, country, principle.
That does qualify based on what the president says about illegals.
And how does taking away ill gotten gains rise to the level of tyranny?
Obviously the "punishment" that exists is not enough to keep Americans from hiring illegals, but putting someone in jail for it is tyranny? We do that to kids with a joint, why not to someone hiring an illegal who, as many have stated, are criminals, cost taxpayers money, and are, as Trump stated, are rapists and drug dealers.
I guess you are fine with a slap on the wrist, then business as usual, as long as you benefit from the cheap labor provided. Would you rather jail drug users than drug dealers-the drug is the money provided by these employers, the dealers are those that hire.
Because it's not "punishment", it's tyranny.
And no, they are not "traitors", any more than any other criminal is a traitor. They broke a law, they didn't share top secret state secrets. "Traitor" is reserved for very specific actions.
Why not just start chopping of people's hands if they get caught shoplifting?
Bwahaha Mark...looking at that picture all those tents have air conditioning!!! Good catch!!!
SD=FOOT IN MOUTH
"Your the one that said bye for good....then came back not even a month later....." Tell me about it, he who's claims to ignore me.... Way to double down on your snarky retort. You know exactly why I was departed, we conversed with some private email, feel free to share more of our private emails, please do.....because then I can feel free to share exactly what you have said. That's cool.
""“Hmmm....you seemed fine with this when it came to gun laws......” Whatever do you mean?"
Your already going to start playing like you have no idea what I am talking about..."
I asked the question; you deflected on answer. Perhaps I just ignored you before....Can't you answer? Back up your comment, please, if you will.
I find it a stranger danger that Darrin admits he wants to double down on the incarceration depravation for asylum seekers. Do you really think AC at 100+ degree is a luxury just because they didn't have it before? Many of these folks are not illegally crossing, they are seeking asylum --- legally. "The parents should be jailed for child endangerment!!!" Come on, tell us that was blunder type? You don't really think these folks are making this journey because they are child abusers, do you? Do you really think they are not fleeing something even worse than the trip topped off by the cruel and unusual punishment that you want to mete out once they get here?
Skippy, given the inaccuracy of the surveys due to lack of data tracking, both our numbers are in the ballpark. You missed the part where no-shows are often do to being lost because they moved OR because of a lack of representation that most feel will get the numbers in the 9-10 out of 10 range. Some bracelets might even improve that and we can save BILLIONS each year we are spending to create tent cities. Point is we can create a asylum system that reflects our 1967 Asylum Protocol based on the 1951 Refugee Convention confirmed by 145 member states.
You know, back when we were a shining light upon the hill who convinced others to act humanly and compassionately and provided an example beacon to follow. Now we just piss on many previous agreements, conventions, and institutions in a truculently chaotic irresponsible fashion. Now we hold kids hostage for a PR stunt.
Your links are interesting and I agree, we should, like EU, process asylum seekers. Matter of fact, vetting is crucial and turning away those who do not vet can be appropriate. However, your sources do not mention mandatory incarceration for parents, they do not mention physical separation of families, or even children at all. So I don't see how they relate to my IMOs......
Since they are "criminals" Under Caesars laws, Jesus said Give unto Caesar the things that are Caesars and unto God the things that are Gods. They are treated pretty well when judged by what other country's do. If the world followed Jesus, it would be a whole different world. IMOP
"Your links are interesting and I agree, we should, like EU, process asylum seekers. "
And we are... by catching them at the borders and making sure they don't skip town.
You glossed over the part where they want the Libyan Coast Guard to intercept the boats and bring them directly back to Africa though. Maybe Europe is finally starting to realize that borders actually mean something.
Peace B with U that doesn't mean continue to let everyone in unchecked because their country sucks. The AC on those tents looks a lot better than what I have. I'm guessing they didn't even have AC in their country.
SD so you disappeared because someone made you cry? LMAO...
I love reading hyperlocal sites like this to see whether neighbors behave any differently from the national crassness. Sadly, from the tone it doesn't seem to be going well. People on the right want the wall or sic ICE on the illegals. Gotta show there's a new sheriff in town. The libs on the other hand endlessly play up audiotapes of kids separated from parents to tug at our heart strings. In the meanwhile, as others have pointed out, e-Verify could stop this nonsense. That giant sucking sound of illegals leaving when jobs evaporate. We need to hold congress' feet in November to fix immigration once and for all and allow only legal workers into our farms and industry. We can still be that shining beacon on the hill and get back to being neigborly.
" In the meanwhile, as others have pointed out, e-Verify could stop this nonsense. That giant sucking sound of illegals leaving when jobs evaporate."
MtDude,
Agree. Things like eVerify and prosecuting those who hire illegals would go a long way.
Some would rather they get in, make someone 500k in profits with a 10k penalty (net 490k), then cheer when ICE takes them away. It really does bring some sort of pleasure it appears.
There needs to be a real deterrent for those that hire illegals, not a watered down penalty that a bean counter can use to reward bad behavior. I suggest this and it is called being tyrannical. The penalty should be mandatory prison time. This would stop those from hiring illegals dead in their tracks. No work, they won't come here.
"There needs to be a real deterrent for those that hire illegals"
Dodgebaal - I googled the topic and see that there are already escalating criminal penalties in place including jail time. Perhaps these are not enough and there needs to be something like 3 strikes to shut down the business ... who knows.
https://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/penalties-for-employers-hiring-illegal-immigrants.html
But my bigger point was... perhaps, as members of this small local group, we need to back off the incendiary track and discuss solutions civilly without imputing motives. Speaking for myself, I have found more satisfaction in the ordinary and mundane on the Hackettstown forum and would hate to see that degrade.
"there needs to be something like 3 strikes"
3 strikes to me is excessive.
This is basically a license to allow it 2 times first. No excuse for not using eVerify except for greed.
These businesses know exactly what they are doing, they are taking advantage of cheap illegal labor, which encourages more illegals from jumping the border.
They are not minor players in this, and our president, who attacks Harley Davidson, does not put legislation against owners of these corporations who hire illegals. The loopholes such as hiring "contractors" without liability has to stop.
From MtDude’s link:
“What If the Illegal Immigrant Is Using a False or Stolen Identity?
Illegal immigrants who seek employment often engage in identity theft in order to work in the United States. Employers are required to make a good faith effort to make sure that their employees are legally permitted to work in the country. Good faith efforts include checking social security numbers and making sure the numbers are valid.”
A good faith effort is kinda vague, which is why in reality it’s nothing more than a built in loop hole. E-Verify is supposed to deal with that, but since our representatives in Congress refuse to mandate its use the above loophole remains in effect.
So once again, if we as a nation wanted to truly deal with this problem then our reps would mandate e-verify use because that system is already built and available to all employers. The problem is Congress, as usual.
That said, I don’t really believe that this Congress wants to stem the flow of illegal immigrants. The value of that labor pool is too great in some sectors of the economy for our “bought and paid for” (aka lobbyist controlled) Congress folks to act.
JIT,
Great post.
A loophole,lobbyist controlled, is a manipulation of the normal flow of capitalism.
One example:
Medicare spent $2 billion for one drug, Acthar, as the manufacturer paid doctors millions,
117,000 per year for one medication alone. Lobbyists are not your friend. It costs roughly 200k to raise a child, but 117k for one year's worth of medication.
This bleeding will only increase as the boomers continue to retire and drain the benefit pool.
Lobbyists and the corporate manipulation of our government is a really big problem.
@SD """“Hmmm....you seemed fine with this when it came to gun laws......” Whatever do you mean?"
So you are claiming that you never said that you were okay with guns being taken from people before due process? I am not putting much time into your game here...you and I know exactly what I am talking about and that is all that matters.
@SD "I find it a stranger danger that Darrin admits he wants to double down on the incarceration depravation for asylum seekers."
So let me get this straight....you are okay with spending millions to provide a "home" for people who are not even citizens and have never even paid a cent into our tax base....but you are not okay with spending millions to secure our boarder? Something that would protect the very people who pay into the tax base...then you double down by trying to make it alright claiming only a low percentile of them are gang members....um what??? How is their country being horrible America's problem? Have you ever tried to cross into Mexicos boarder illegally....know what they do to people?
@SD "Do you really think AC at 100+ degree is a luxury just because they didn't have it before?"
Uhhhhh...YEAH.....what do you consider it? Your the one that said
"No, we should rip families apart over misdemeanors and put the kids in tents in 100+ weather." trying for some emotional points like they have it so bad......meanwhile they have air conditioning, TV, video games, meals, etc in those oh so lousy tents.....maybe we should spend some more money and build a 5 star resort for them down there? That's what you seem to want...but in the meantime lets NOT take care of ourselves...something we have put on the back burner for how many years now?
It’s OOCM time (Out of Context Man…..) “The libs on the other hand endlessly play up audiotapes of kids separated from parents to tug at our heart strings.” Yeah Dude, that’s why we do it…..because we know the sustained effect of crying children. It’s a ruse. Or is it reality. Or are we are just playing to the audience who just loves to hear the sound of crying…..music to Jeff Session’s ears.
Darrin responded: “Bwahaha Mark...looking at that picture all those tents have air conditioning!!!” See, Darrin likes to cry. But let’s not pile on, he’s a new father Crying can be a good thing and he’s got more of it to come….Compassion --- nah….
Mets says: “…someone made you cry? LMAO...” “The AC on those tents looks a lot better than what I have.” Wow, man lives in worse conditions than an AC-featured tent. He should seek asylum.
Hey, I don’t mind that some here think other’s crying is funny. The kids are all right says OGent: “They are treated pretty well when judged by what other country's do. If the world followed Jesus, it would be a whole different world.” That’s right, we could just crucify them! Problem solved. As long as the kids are better off than other countries, it must be cool. Is Syria the benchmark?
MarkM struck the bottom line though, “Yeah, the porta-johns probably suck in that heat, but its still better than wiping your butt with a cactus.” Badda bing, badda boom. The ole “sure beats nailing babies to the floor” defense. Wait….we are nailing babies to the floor…..I guess as long as it’s better than living in Ecuador and cactus wiping, we are taking the high road still. You know, the shining light WE put on the hill.
Over 2,000 kids still separated. You may not want to hear it, they are still crying. Think we are putting together 6 families every three weeks with Trump-like efficiency. Parents are being deported w/o their kids, sometimes through shady practices. Injury and abuse reports continue to grow. Obviously, they can’t find the kids, the parents, or both.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQRnp8U9AJw
Yeah, the kids are all right. We are paragons of virtue.
These are asylum seekers Darrin. Use the 1967 Asylum Protocol in action and, more important, in the intent that WE THE PEOPLE not only created, but convinced over 140 other sovereign nations to comply with. Vet em, immediately deport the ones that don't vet, ankle bracelet the rest and 99% will turn up in court. Give them their rights, by the Constitution, for due process without cruel and unusual punishment. The ones that don't you probably didn't vet right so use the outages to fix the vetting process.
No tent expense, no mil-spec prison expense, no cost of additional trauma caused by this new Session's/Trump process that you applaud.
What would you do if someone did this to little D? How long would you remember? Would you say "fair and balanced," or cruel and unusual.
Well I don’t think little D will sneak into Mexico , commit voter fraud, wave an American flag, work illegally, demand free education and healthcare refuse deportation and call everyone a racist when they attempt it so there’s that
Skippy,
They can only work illegally if greedy American's hire them.
It's your own American comrades that are supplying the fuel for the fire.
You enjoy the cheap labor because it helps Americans buy things for less than they would cost if you were not so cheap and paid for American labor.
Not surprising coming from a country built on slave labor...
Who fed them over the two to three thousand mile journey?
Who gave any female over 12 years of age the Plan "B" birth control that shows up during the arrest?
George Soros "Open Society NGO" of course.
Where's the UN? Refugees are to be taken in by the 1st country they arrive at according to the UN, Geneva, or Agenda 21.
One-eyed Poacher Trump did not write the law for Caesar. He is just enforcing the law for Caesar.
( Congress) They are the ones that can fix it. We are all well aware that they don't move very fast. I just heard that a judge said they must reunite the family's in 30 days.
You know that’s spin, right OG?
I mean then why did he rescind it via EO (which he didn’t even require but its a favored phito op)??
What spin? If an eo is outside the scope of presidential power then it should be fought in the sc.
Eo’s are meant for policy orders, not overriding Congress. We should all be enraged if that’s the case.
Spot on Skippy thanks for handling my light work.
Secondly...I, as his parent would never put him through such a grueling and dangerous trip.
Yes...asylum seekers...but still crossing the boarder ILLEGALLY!!!!!!! How come this is so hard to understand?
The amount of people trying to illegally cross the boarder is staggering (i do not think you realize this).....we cannot afford to just give these people citizenship and send them on in....plus there is a law to hold them to. They could have taken legal steps...but they choose not to....some with their children.
Trump was enforcing the law just as Obama did in 2014. Don't like the law, petition your Congressman and Senator to change it.
The spin was to call mandatory incarceration and family separation “just enforcing it.” Obviously his writing an EO, which you defined quite well, does not create law but ends a policy within the law that Sessions and Trump made up to begin. Proves his “just following the law” comment was spin for the gullible. Instead he chose this method to enforce the law. Didn’t even write an EO to enact this policy. Wonder why he skipped that photo op. Sessions just whispered “make it so.”
Yes, Trump is Christlike. Christ grabbed women by the p—-y, fornicated with porn stars, lied, cheated, refused to pay bills, called people names, etc.
Trump is very Christlike. Why else do you think Christians voted for him? They saw Christ in him. And they want their children to emulate him.
"Yes, Trump is Christlike. Christ grabbed women by the p—-y, fornicated with porn stars, lied, cheated, refused to pay bills, called people names, etc."
I think I read that in 2 Corinthians.
Who gave any female over 12 years of age the Plan "B" birth control that shows up during the arrest?
——-
You prefer anchor babies? I’m surprised at you. Thar’s not very Trump-like.
“Such hypocrisy.”
Which are you referring to?
There’s so much that it’s hard to keep track.
Darrin says: "So you are claiming that you never said that you were okay with guns being taken from people before due process? I am not putting much time into your game here...you and I know exactly what I am talking about and that is all that matters."
Not sure the game you are talking but I do not claim anything. I am plainly saying that I do not understand what you are talking about. And telling me I do, or it's some kind of game, is not going to help that. I have talked about some common sense gun laws, some with my own twists, but I don't recall advocating taking guns from people before due process? Can you elaborate more than lambasting me for "gamesmanship?"
SD you know that the law has been in place since way before trump - it goes back to the 90s in fact - this policy does too - didn’t you see children wrapped up in Mylar blankets circa 2014.
@Skippy "I’m all for paying for American labor"
And I am all for prosecuting those who hire illegal labor.
Here is a thought....prosecute the illegals as well as those hiring them and create a work program replacing them with people collecting unemployment?
Skipping: where does the law call for zero tolerance mandatory incarceration and forcible separation of families because I do not see it in the 1967 Asylum Protocol that we championed and got 145 other sovereign nations to sign.
We have done many things before that we see as questionable today. That's not an answer or a rationale.
Can you cite a source?
Think that's the fake news source. Nice job JYM. Lots of source-less stuff on this thread. Et tu Skippitus?
Darrin: what people on unemployment?
Why don't you Google it, Mr. Google? I am certain most of the crap you post is made up in your twisted brain. When you're not twisting others words and avoiding direct questions. We know how you operate. By the way, when are you welcoming some refugees into your home?
Uhgg. Stop with the fake news already. You didn’t provide any more facts than the op did, sheesh.
Staring with #1, some info here with a link to a USDA 2015 info document. Do the math then come back with how far off the original statistic is:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/03/16/immigrants-are-now-canceling-their-food-stamps-for-fear-that-trump-will-deport-them/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.f4c08feb0851
Which links to here:
https://fns-prod.azureedge.net/sites/default/files/ops/Characteristics2015.pdf
I have no idea how far off the number is. What I do know if that both posting and responding in generalities isn’t always best.
JYM - If you google that meme, or better do TinEye to trace the origins of a picture it comes up as "Political Vel Craft" as a site promoting Saint Vladimir, "Father of Russia". The site also extols the virtues of Ron Paul 2012. Not only outdated, but perhaps under the "made up" category you're trying to avoid. Not a surprise JIT calls "Fake News". Even though that was declared a totally emotional response when "take the emotion out" was the mantra.
There's so much disinformation about the immigration process. The rule of law is a good starting point, but the separation of what is policy vs. law is what the EO is about. Trump spewed about law but it turned out it's Sessions policy in an effort to punish and deter by advertising what jerks America wants to be. The EO is a result of his wife being compassionate, nothing more. Trump doubled down twice about what he said was out of his hands. Then signed the EO that showed it was all about him.
Asylum vs simple illegal border crossing is exactly what the 67 law is about. It's not in any way stupidity of one countries laws but accepted world wide. You don't want some Lebanese German citizen innocent tortured in Syria to show up in Turkey when going through the checkpoint there would have landed him right back in Syrian jail. This is a world wide problem with world wide agreements. It's why we give due process - because we want due process for our citizens world wide.
The same is true of border crossings vs cases of current residents. Kids vs adults, alone vs accompanying. All of the scenarios are different and covered by different rules. Just like ICE actions when one parent is completely legal doesn't excuse complying with American law. It's not so simple, and it's not just "this is jail it's done". Just like many kids in the 16-18 range that come alone are different, so are families of people opposing drug cartels (MS13 is FUD, a US emotional knee jerk as opposed to the real problem) who are exactly what we WANT, not who we should be afraid of.
We're definitely screwed because there are no winners or losers when we are overwhelmed. The only things that makes it even worse is illegally punishing everyone and not enforcing the law. And that's by people making big statements about "the rule of law".
GC GC, my use of the term “fake news” was directed toward mg’s post telling another poster that their info was fake news. My entire point was that there were two posters making claims without any supporting info (one by simply throwing the phrase “fake news” out there).
Next time you intend to dis my views at least get them correct lol
@SD "Darrin: what people on unemployment?"
Um...anyone on unemployment...not really sure how my statement could be interpreted.
Sure...it's at an all time low (thanks to Trump) lets make it even better!
https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000
A week ago, I posted statistics that came directly from a white house news conference (it was obviously ignored)......
So far....12,000 kids have been taken in....OF WHICH
10,000 crossed the boarder WITHOUT their parents or were SENT by their parents
2,000 were removed from their parents after they broke the LAW.
So stop already with the emotional pull of kids being "ripped" from their parents.....the gross majority of them are not even with their parents to begin with!!!!!
In plain speak, justintime, please, is there a claim here that you need supporting info for. Can't tell amongst all the pronouns and strange abbreviations meant to tweak. Thank you.
GC, nice summary of my verbosity!!! +1.
I genuinely apologize if I spread fake news. And you're right, it solves nothing and helps no one by doing so.
At least I didn't publish a cobbled together magazine photo like "Time" did and try to pass it off as real news. That's the real problem when supposed trusted news sources are lying to us, knowingly and willingly.
By the way, that's not aimed at you, GC.,Again, I am sorry for misinformation that I shared.
JYM, just about everything posted here comes from third partys and is subjected to the equivalent of the game of telephone.
Context often changes between whatever initial source published info and when it hits here. IOW, don’t sweat it. At least you recognize when you may have been played; others here are so hard core that even if they discoverer proof on their own they’d ignore it because if identity politics. Must.be.right.all.the.time lol
So here’s my own tidbit for the day. Sources are in the link for anyone so inclined to trash this source:
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-07-01/fact-check-did-obama-detain-90000-children-border
I have not the time nor inclination to check for myself today, but what I do know is that the point made here - that many folks will twist “facts” to meet their personal agendas - is true way more often than not.
Did Obama detain 90000 children at the border?
Looks like yes he did. As the article makes clear it's even higher. So to be clear; Hundreds of thousands of migrant children whose parents sent them into the United States alone or with a human trafficker remained in Obama administration facilities for up to months at a time, before eventual release or repatriation.
In fact, if one adds up just the unaccompanied minors taken into custody between 2008 - 2016 (here and here), nearly 300,000 children were placed in federal housing under Obama.
And as many have pointed out, no one cared.
Thanks, justintime. You are completely correct and I take ownership for my mistakes. I would love to see others do the same. Especially those who present themselves as trusted sources, and not just people on a local forum. I can dream...
Are you really trying to say there's a moral equivalency here between Trump and Obama? Seems a false equivalency comparison to me.
Obama's kids were unaccompanied or in the hands of traffickers. Many of Trump's kids are with parents seeking asylum.
Obama's kids were held an average of a couple of weeks until a vetted parent, family member or sponsor could be found. Some of Trump's kids have been there for months, staring in May of 2018. Some of their parents have already been deported without their children.
People cared, Congress acted, nobody liked what was happening under Obama with these kids regardless of what Trump's campaign manager has told you.
GreyHawk -- do you have a source for the 300,000 children Obama placed in federal housing? I can't verify that one......
These are the links associated with the 300k number from the article:
https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/assets/documents/2017-Dec/BP%20Total%20Monthly%20UACs%20by%20Sector%2C%20FY10-FY17.pdf
And
https://www.scribd.com/document/382947965/734433
The links are embedded as hyperlinks near the bottom of the article.
Obama’s kids?
Trumps kids?
I think you’re taking this association a bit too seriously. These govt agencies existed prior to both of these presidents, so if you want to point fingers (which you do ;-)) you’d have to present the changes each administration made to policy. Some are known (those that hurt or help a partisan cause) but certainly most are not common knowledge.
@SD “Obama's kids were unaccompanied or in the hands of traffickers. Many of Trump's kids are with parents seeking asylum”
100% wrong....I have posted the factual information backing this twice already in this very thread!
Thanks JIT for the link. It looks like the writer had to go through a maze of various documents to get the information. If true, where was the moral outrage from the left.
OKids, TKids, just looking to save space.
"100% wrong...." Darrin: "As a matter of policy, the US government is separating families who seek asylum in the US by crossing the border illegally. Dozens of parents are being split from their children each day - the children
labeled “unaccompanied minors” and sent to government custody or foster care, the parents labeled criminals and sent to jail. Between October 1, 2017 and May 31, 2018, at least 2,700 children have been split from their parents. 1,995 of them were separated over the last six weeks of that window — April 18 to May 31 — indicating that at present, an average of 45 children are being taken from their parents each day." VOX news. https://www.vox.com/2018/6/11/17443198/children-immigrant-families-separated-parents
I call that: "Many of Trump's kids are with parents seeking asylum” The fact that unaccompanied minors equal about 10,000 during that time notwithstanding. Close to 20% of the total here. Plus, what do we know about the other unaccompanied minors incarceration? For Obama's kids, we know the average holding time was about 2 weeks until a family member, relative, or sponsor could be find to end the detainment.
Darrin, do you know the average holding time for Trump's unaccompanied minors? Indefinite like the asylum seekers?
JIT: it would be easier to respond if you dropped the oblique use of pronouns and abbreviations meant to tweak and just went with plain=speak names.
The 300,000 Obama kids represents unaccompanied minors, not asylum-seeking families who get their kids ripped away at the boarder, some of who are deported and may never see their kids again. Not sure what you want me to do with the second link, certainly not going to hunt n peck.
Skippy. I did not say illegal, I don't think. I may have said immoral, indecent, unnecessary, inefficient, and just downright mean, but illegal? It is a Sessions/Trump POLICY that works within the law. Sessions invented it, Trump approved its use. JIT: this POLICY did not require or use an EO to evoke. The EO used to end the POLICY was a CHOICE by Trump; there was no legal or administrative reason to issue an EO. Sessions could have just made a call to change the POLICY of mandatory incarceration with family separation for asylum seekers. Same way he started it..
In hindsight, probably Sessions is a true believer. He has ascribed biblical intentions to this POLICY more than once. Trump recognized the PR value of the detention photo op for the policy as a deterrent to border crossings which are seeing an uptick although still at historically low numbers. Especially after his build-a-wall tough talk mantra seemed to lower the crossings, thus the uptick. Thus he easily recognized where history was going with this, reversed course, and released the unnecessary EO as another PR phot opportunity.
Don't matter. DHHS has solved the issue of the 2,000 kids remaining in prison separated from their parents who are seeking asylum, few of whom have been returned since the famed EO. They will no longer issue numbers. The kids have been formally disappeared.
Everyone: there was plenty of push back on Obama over this. Congressional, journalistic, and public activists. The Obama response was to minimize the detainments time by finding family, relatives, or sponsors. What's in Trump's wallet beyond AC in the tents?
https://youtu.be/yiXSy0eBZmM
Yeah it’s absolutely new and Clinton and Obama didn’t do the same thing... Trump even used the same language
@SD "I call that: "Many of Trump's kids are with parents seeking asylum” The fact that unaccompanied minors equal about 10,000 during that time notwithstanding"
Lol...you logic is purely emotionally driven...my point was you harp on the fact that parents are being "ripped from their children" but in actuality....5 times the amount of kids parents CHOSE to separate themselves!!!!! This is obviously a non-concern for the parents.
You use the word "Many" as a trigger word...but fail to admit the reality that many MORE chose to separate THEMSELVES.
Here is an idea for you,,,,,don't break the law!
Sorry, but again...why is this our problem? America does not even have a pot to piss in financially, yet why is it okay for my tax money go towards funding people who are not even citizens???? Meanwhile when we want to make our boarders safer to protect all of America.....that is a problem? No, no no....how dare we spend money to help ourselves!!!! Really??
There is legal citizenship avenues these people can take.....but they chose to cross the boarder illegally.....this is something you try over and over to rationalize....I say B.S. Want to be a citizen...no problem....take the legal steps just like many have done....where has giving out free rides over and over gotten us?
Yes, I can see the similarities and I agree with everything said.
But if you call Obama’s and Clinton’s border policies and actions the same thing as Session’s/Trump’s zero tolerance mandatory separation of asylum-seeking refugee families followed by mandatory incarceration policy, you are very wrong. These policies were extremely different.
You do know even Trump reversed his decision and policy if splitting up the families, don’t you?
He calls that “working with the other side of the aisle.”
How many addled policies has he rolled out and then rescinded in short order since coming on office? How many ill-equipped humans has he hired, fired, in that revolving door of an administration? How many indicted so far? How many guilty so far? How many in jail as we speak?
How many lies do you need to be told before you turn your back on him?
Because while this was legal, you and he just have no moral rationale to cause this painful, traumatic, and unnecessary harm. It’s all just branding, marketing, a photo op to scare asylim-seekers as we extinguish our shining light upon the hill.
Clinton and Obama, especially Obama, made better choices here, IMO. But more important, Sessions, Trump, and you have made a poor choice of policy.
Why are we even talking about this at this point. Trump issued the order to stop it and you liberals keep bringing it up. Move on... How about your party stops colluding and sits down with Republicans to put together a real immigration package... Instead you have Maxine Waters inciting riots and people protesting for no reason at this point. You have idiots calling for the end of ICE… Really? How about those 3 kids in our own town that wouldn’t have been saved from horrible conditions had ICE not been after their father… So tired of the Left BS talking points. If you’re not going to discuss beneficial change then STFU. All you hear is Pelosi and Schumer cry every day yet they do nothing to help change anything. Pelosi and Waters have people living in tents in their jurisdictions and do nothing for them.
"Why are we even talking about this at this point. Trump issued the order to stop it." Over 2,000 kids are still separated, that's why. Sessions/Trump is looking for indefinite incarceration for families still, that's why.
Stop colluding? What do that even mean?
"Sits down with Republicans to put together a real immigration package"
Because you won't let us in the meetings; you won't let us even co-author reports. Remember, you won. Ball's in your court.
"Maxine Waters" I agree she has stepped over the line and is not "going high."
"people protesting for no reason at this point."
You're kidding right? Here's a good protest. Some Moms crowd-fund bond money for asylum-seeking Mom who is released on bond sans papers. So they can't fly her, bus her, they need to set up a car relay to get her from TX to NYC where her daughter is "detained in a family friendly environment no doubt better than her home country" except --- NO MOM in Harlem. I call that a good protest. And they will continue, please donate and you too can protest separation and support reunification. https://www.today.com/parents/how-help-immigrant-children-separated-families-t129923
" You have idiots calling for the end of ICE" Agreed
"If you’re not going to discuss beneficial change then STFU." No need for bad language, please. And no thank you, very much. Can you tell me the benefits of unnecessary mandatory family separation and incarceration. Can you discuss the benefits of this? Because I say, if you have to separate, find a family member, relative, sponsor to house the kids. But don't separate unless you have to. Just process, release with ankle bracelet if needed, and let the courts continue along the path of due process.
"All you hear is Pelosi and Schumer cry every day yet they do nothing to help change anything." You only hear this if you listen. I have yet to hear them myself. Don't like Pelosi, have called for her removal, but honestly --- I need to revisit that because I think you deserve her a little longer at this point.
Again, you won. The world is your oyster. What options have you left us beyond crying, screaming, or submitting? We would love to compromise but only if you listen. But you won't even allow us to sit at the table to discuss, much less take part in any policy or legislation discussion.
"Pelosi and Waters have people living in tents in their jurisdictions and do nothing for them" Do you have a source for this; I had not heard about the tents..
Stranger, don't waste your effort with those belligerent fools, they're not worth your time.
"But if you call Obama’s and Clinton’s border policies and actions the same thing as Session’s/Trump’s zero tolerance mandatory separation of asylum-seeking refugee families followed by mandatory incarceration policy, you are very wrong. These policies were extremely different. "
the only thing that changed is that asylum petitions must occur prior to an illegal border crossing. if you come in illegally you get separated as the adults in question are being held on criminal charges. did you see Obama's state of the union address linked above where he said the exact same thing? and yes - if you seek asylum they are detained until they can perform background checks etc on folks who have no ID whatsoever and it needs to be determined if their story pans out during this time families are not separated. we simply cannot put the entirety of the world on our payroll. below is a great video on why we cannot allow open borders.
https://youtu.be/LPjzfGChGlE
hey the socialist intellectual elite has made a return. hows things Alpha 1 Beta? ready to start calling folks names or want to have a discussion?
If you think past administrations weren’t doing the same thing with kids then you’re living in a bubble. It’s a talking point now because the Left has to move from one thing to the next to gain some kind of traction going into the elections. They keep falling flat on their faces. Citizens have their kids taken all the time or are harassed over stupid things and are threatened with removal if they don’t comply with these liberal run organizations like DYFS. It’s not like these illegal children aren’t being cared for. And I call BS on the asylum crap. Most of these people know that they can come here and work under the table and get free healthcare and schooling for their children. We all get stuck with that bill. If they were really looking for asylum they would have stopped at one of the US consolates or the embassy in Mexico and applied for it. They were trying to sneak in, got caught, and tried to use asylum as a get out of jail free card. They put their children in these positions. Its no different than a hungry family robbing a store for food and getting arrested. The kids get taken from the parents. They’re actually better off being taken because the kids will be fed and cared for. I wonder what these illegal kids were even eating or where they were sleeping walking a thousand miles through central America and Mexico. What were they wiping their butts with…. They were probably filthy when they got here.
We deserve Pelosi longer? Even several of her own party members said they wouldn’t vote for her to be Speaker if things go blue. Your party is run by dementia patients. Time for some new blood. And if that new blood is socialist democrats, good luck ever being in control again.
SD/Mr Google, you know how to find articles. They’re out there and there’s video of people living in tents in California. The state is a mess…. That’s what liberal politics creates.
Deep breaths A1B. The “fools” on both sides of our ridiculous dichotomy, belligerent or not, aren’t going anywhere.
Doctors cancel conference in san Fransisco over fears of crime, homelessness and drug use in Pelosi's district. Overall tourism is down because of this.
http://fortune.com/2018/07/02/san-francisco-streets-streets-medical-convention/
SD....what is happening at the border is no secret ....yet people KEEP COMING!!!! certainly leads me to believe what they are given is much better then what they have...either way...it's ILLEGAL!!!! There is simply no argument here.
@SD "How many lies do you need to be told before you turn your back on him?" ALL THIS AND HE IS STILL BETTER THEN HILARY!!!!!!
@SD "You and he just have no moral rationale to cause this painful, traumatic, and unnecessary harm."
Oh keep the trigger words and emotion coming...pile it on deep dude.....you just about got me to care.....NOT.....IT"S ILLEGAL!!!!!
a1b....your continual name calling has become socially amusing....I love seeing liberal's minds explode when they cannot get their way!
A1Beta --- I know it seems hard when it's 10:1 odds, there's a whole lot of faulty logic, off-topic tangents, obviously fake facts, and complicated 30K foot generalizations that Caption Obvious laughs at, on top of what often feels like an unlevel playing field in moderation. I do it to learn and playing with the info via writing helps me understand. IOW, I do it for myself.
I would agree with you but now see JIT and others saying "e-verify" so once in a purple moon, we make progress. Likewise, for all you attempting to control yourf knee jerk reaction over that, I too have learned that 10 round clip versus 15 round clip, who cares, either will do. Or --- darned if those good guys with guns do seem to predominately hit the mark. Still seems like something to do away as in "wouldn't it be better if we didn't need to be well-heeled," but as hard as I look they seem to do little harm or at least -- seldom.
Live and learn.
"Tourism is San Francisco’s biggest industry, and the SFTA estimates the city had 25.5 million visitors in 2017. That’s an increase of 2.6 million people since 2013. In 2017 alone, visitors to San Francisco spent $9.1 billion with conventions accounting for an additional $687.4 million in direct spending."
I think this passage from the article you linked to says that overall tourism is *up* by 10% from 2013 to 2017...
Skippy: did you really just invite A1Beta to call you names by calling them a name? What was that?
Skippy, can I ask you a serious question: What do you do all day? Are you retired or out of work on disability or something? I am genuinely curious in a not even to be mean way.
Thank you btw for calling me a socialist, but I do want to note I'm a democratic socialist. Got a card around here somewhere...
But, personally, I'd like to keep the insults slinging. When I want a real discussion, I'll go on twitter. Some great discussions there, not always like like minded people. Some real a holes too though.
JIT: Those deep breathes made me feel like a dragon in this heat. Hear me rawr!
I won't say Stranger is always right but I wouldn't know - honestly, sometimes I see their posts and my eyes just gloss over, but what I read generally seems to be on point to those of us with functional cerebral cortexes. Others here have what I like to deem "FoxRot". Unfortunately, it's not usually terminal.
But i'm gonna disagree with you here, arguing here is just worthless. These aren't the "good germans". We'd be better off taking our time and trying to find real solutions. Come join the resistance - you know where to find us.
Darrin, since you like to so much, here's a special shout out for you - only because you asked! You seem really concerned with illegal immigration, which is a problem sure, but aren't there bigger problems to deal with, like healthcare, or corporate tax loopholes, or even our crumbling infrastructure?
It makes me thing you must be on of the uneducated unskilled welfare leeches that's soaking up unemployment because you was replaced by an illegal who barely speaks English. And if you're job can be replaced by an illegal, well, you have no one to blame except you and your boss.
You make some valid points here and there, but for someone so concerned with law and order, aren't there some bigger problems - like you know, seeing if Russia meddled with our elections - that should be higher up your priority list?
LOL Nice try SD....A1B very obviously doesn't need any invitation, certainly doesn't need help from you...(your boarderline how it is :->) or reason to call names...he has been lashing out like a child without a lollipop since the start of this thread.
But...it's your call....feel free to drop to his level and try to relate...maybe you will loose the 4 people on this forum who still occasionally read the shorter things you post.
I was responding to being called a belligerent fool.
I’m a consultant - sit in front of a machine all day I’m don’t turn pizza into code or anything cool like that - I only called you embraced the moniker and to highlight the point of view from which you spew vitriol.
A1B, I appreciate the "normal talk"
@A1B "but aren't there bigger problems to deal with"
Just because there are bigger problems to deal with, doesn't mean we should and could turn a blind eye to a growing problem.
So to answer your questions, well more assumptions then anything.....in particular "It makes me thing you must be on of the uneducated unskilled welfare leeches that's soaking up unemployment because you was replaced by an illegal who barely speaks English"
Lets get one thing straight, you don't know me, or any one else on this forum from anyone....and your personal judgement skills are quite off! I am a engineer with 2 associates, a bachelors, and a masters....certainly not "uneducated" by any means, and certainly not unemployed....this may be a concept that is hard for a computer programmer to compute ;-)
Russia? Nothing has been proven! And even so, Russia hates Trump so what would have they really done?....but illegal immigration (what we are actually talking about) certainly has.....If you were to drop all the problems and just deal with one thing you thought was the "biggest" problem, we, as a country, would collectively get nothing accomplished.
I see you know how to google. I'm the one user on here who's not really anonymous to anyone who can work a bit of google.
Well, it seems we have something in common. Self employed?
I ask because you seem to post a lot during the day, disappear for a while around 5 or so and sometimes pop up up sometimes later. I figured you had to either not work, or more likely have a job that allows you lots of flexible time at a computer. Based on your views, I'd guess you're self employed - business owners and self employed folks seem to often have very strong beliefs about the tax burden, and that would allow you plenty of time to post.
Anyway, I was just trying to think of some of these issues from your point of view, but I can't see why you and some others focus so much energy on illegals as both the problem and the solution, besides they're you know, illegal, while not getting angry about corporate tax cheats, insane tax credits and businesses that abuse them, corrupt politicians, or even illegal drugs?
I just can't understand why, short of racism, this is such a high priority for some of you. Immigration wasn't even an issue in the 2012 election or since then until Trump made it an issue. Why aren't you this angry at the business owners who hire these illegals?
So Skippy, or anyone else, would you enlighten us to why, besides "law and order" that immigration is such a priority for you when we have so many issues? Maybe you could give a top 10 priority list of issue for you?
Here's my top 10 in no particular order:
Solving healthcare to everyone is covered at a reasonable cost, fix out of out of network billing and insane billing. Part of me wants single payer with no alternatives, part of me to open to the government competing with private corporations.
Closing corporate tax loopholes
Punishing Russian for the election meddling and prevent it from happening again
Net Neutrality - I'm open to ways other than Title II
Infrastructure upgrades and not the glamourous ones like new bridges.
Securing the communication and electrical infrastructure from cyber attacks
Redistribute certain federal and state authority - make driver license and voter registration federal
Criminal justice reform - ease penalties for some small time crimes, send drug crimes to rehab and counseling rather than jail (at least first time), end private prisons, rebuild our sentencing rules to make sentencing more logical and take the victim(s) into consideration more. Revise civil forfeiture and add automatic modifiers to crimes committed in special circumstances (For examples, Cops who commit crimes on duty should face higher penalties if convicted and traffic violations while drunk or high should severely increase the penalties)
Revise the tax system to allow people to submit taxes online on IRS.gov directly without third party software, simplify the tax code for the average americans, and provide all the tools needed online for free, potentially even use a confirmation system rather than have us submit everything, and rebuild from the ground up the rules around corporate tax breaks to prevent tax breaks until
Sensible gun control that allows for the temporary and permanent ban or holding weapons for individuals with criminal records, a federal registration system (I've spelled out how this could work safety in this forum before), funding for gun violence research, ban on large capacity magazines, bump stocks and a definitive ban on assault rifles based on ability not secondary features such as pistol grips.
Beyond that:
Opioid crisis
Early childhood education in a way that we can pay the teachers well, allow parents to work and contribute to society and give kids a safe and education early start.
A voucher system for private schools as long as they can meet certain requirements
Re-enter the Paris Climate agreement
Reform student loans
Better access to higher education, potentially free community college.
Push for more green energy
Simplify immigration process so more people apply rather than go straight to trying to enter illegally
And my big project, as president, would be a new deal type work and learn program where every citizen would be guaranteed a minimum of 2 years federal employment after high school of college, if they wanted it, so they can build real life skills and get at minimum a certificate degree. This would be paid internships basically that would guarantee jobs in a field of your choice that's offered, sometimes it would be a private job paid by the government in partnership with a corporation, other times it would be a government job. To keep said job, you would have to have a reasonable minimum grade, continue your studies, perform at least recently at the job. Education and work would total a 40 hour week + homework, year round and I think large portions, if not the entirety of this could be funded by direct cost savings.
Ideally, this could allow a larger permanent workforce as well, keeping those who wish to stay in the jobs but meet reasonable performance standards.
This could allow us to build skilled workers, especially in trades, offer education and employment to the disabled who otherwise would be welfare leeches, while providing reasonable affordable labor, reduce unemployment and push for higher quality American jobs through education and higher wages.
Immigration is a priority for this country because of the substantial cost of uncontrolled immigration. As I’ve posted above it costs us billions a year in infrastructure costs alone. It’s a priority for me because I feel we would be better served to focus on our citizens and vets who are impoverished.
H1Bs abuse effects me more directly - fortunately the type of work I do is more management consulting than IT at this point. I am sure this is something you are experiencing as someone who is in the DevOps stack.
As far as your list :
I’ll agree with a priority being the protection of OT critical infrastructure. I would expand that to telecommunications. Infrastructure.
The rest of it not so much - you make Bernie look conservative lol
alpha1beta,.
I work for the man (so to say) as well as have my own business. my 7-4 job is on computers most of the time so I always have internet access, so trying to figure out my "posting schedule" wont really get you too far.
@ alpha1beta "but I can't see why you and some others focus so much energy on illegals as both the problem and the solution, besides they're you know, illegal, while not getting angry about corporate tax cheats, insane tax credits and businesses that abuse them, corrupt politicians, or even illegal drugs?"
You do realize this thread is about Korea and immigration right? First we talked about Korea...which we all were part of...then we talked about immigration...... that's how a public forum works.... If you follow other threads about some of your other listed concerns I guarantee you will find me, as well as other concerned posters right there as well, but for the record...we do not hijack threads on specific topic just because we "personally" think something else is more important.
Diving further..."Immigration wasn't even an issue in the 2012 election or since then until Trump made it an issue."
It has always been a issue...just kept behind closed doors. It's only this big of a issue because Trump is involved, and certain people will find anything they can to blame on Trump, even if it is something that has been going on for years. Trump could literally solve every item on your list, and I guarantee you would still bad mouth him.
"Why aren't you this angry at the business owners who hire these illegals?"
Who said I wasn't? and who's angry? I am just voicing my opinion.
Darrin:
1 When a world traveler goes through a port of entry, puts two feet on American soil, claims "I'm a refugee seeking asylum," what law exactly is being broken?
2. "Russia? Nothing has been proven!" Really?
2A. Apparently, the Senate, you know, conservatives, think there's smoke https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-cyber/senate-panel-backs-intelligence-agencies-on-russia-trump-conclusions-idUSKBN1JT2YB
2B. 13 Russians have been indicted for aiding Trump win the election. No collusion yet, but getting hotter, 3 Russian companies indicted too: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/16/us/politics/russians-indicted-mueller-election-interference.html
2C. 4 convictions, a few in jail already, a few more indictments, here's your running tab of "hey, nothing's happening here..." : https://medium.com/@KeithDB/a-running-tab-of-mueller-investigation-convictions-indictments-f518b9a72827
And that's RussianGate only. There's the State Level and Stormy Daniels, Michael Cohen, either of which alone or combined could conflate into RussiaGate. I don't even count all the other cases like the Trump Foundation honeypot scandal, ZTE pay-for-play scandal and so on and so on. At 1.5 years in, I would say this is probably the most corrupt administration ever as proven by it'son the conviction and indictment rate alone.
That's on top of the worst Presidential hiring records: dozens of major staffers -- gone. Four communications directors hasta la vista. One very visible, and because of Russia, FBI director. Lost his press secretary. Had to get a new chief of staff. And, of course, his stalwart secretary of state. Scaramangler gone in two weeks, that's got to be a record. Prewitt still there, another record.
Over 42% of top White House positions turned over since Trump took office creating what the highest turnover rate of any US Presidency. https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/d35ggv/everyone-trump-has-fired-or-has-quit-the-white-house
So I beg to differ.
IMO the Russian investigation has borne much fruit so far, has disrupted this dishonest, duplicitous, demeaning little man's goal to divide the US into furious factions of faith pitting rich against poor, black against white, liberal against conservative, and we have yet to see Mueller's hand.
And I delight in hearing "end the witch-hunt, there's no collusion," coming from the Benghazi witch hunt king Trey Gowdy given 7 Benghazi investigations needed for that conclusion. Benghazi cost over $7M and took over 2 years to complete. We are now at $17M and 1.5 years in RussiaGate. However, these numbers are apples and oranges: Benghazi costs are Congressional only, the RussiaGate costs are Mueller’s FBI alone. Our top witch hunt hunter, Trey Gowdy, led the Benghazi investigation and FBI cost estimates $20M to $30M. Gowdy knows this, but does Trump’s bidding to fill your minds with innuendo and doubt. http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2016/07/05/Investigating-Clinton-How-Many-Millions-Were-Spent-Email-Benghazi-Probes
No collusion. Of course not. Mueller has not released his first report yet. And remember, we get six more tries at the apple if we deserve Benghazi parity.
Well we require visas from certain countries - if they’re here legally nothing. If they jump a fence we already discussed that law
Again, Skippy, thank you. You really know how to flatter a guy.
I actually haven't encountered issues with H1Bs or other immigrants, we've had a few non-natives apply but non made it through an interview - not that they weren't skilled, but not a large variety of skills needed for a small team. I don't know if I know any of their situations - naturalized citizens, or some sort of work visas, but the accents and resumes showed that they weren't natives.
But again, I argue, aren't there better things to fight if your concern is purely cost? How about the estimated $1 trillion dollars companies hide overseas?
A few places I'll disagree with Bernie. We don't need legalized pot, however, I think we should remove it from schedule I and allow more research and medical usage - but not through dispensaries, through regularly pharmacies.
I don't think abortion should be illegal, but we have a civil duty as one of our guiding principles is the right to life, to make it as rare as possible. Sometimes, albeit rarely, it's medically necessary, or in the case of incest or rape. I believe your right to choose means you have to right choose what you do, not how you handle the consequences.
There's probably ways to make it safe, affordable and extremely rare, starting with education; contraception covered by healthcare (and if the government runs it, no one has to let their religious beliefs get in the way because 1, everyone pays into the system and 2, corporations don't have any control; and maybe there's ways - like needing two doctors to say it's necessary. But ultimately, I'd rather see it legal than to see people take it into their own hands or go to Mexico.
But being pro-life means taking care of the sick and being humane to all people, not just those lucky enough to be born in this great experiment of democracy.
I am pro-death penalty, because that is a choice you have made to do something so bad, you have thrown your right to life away.
We all came from immigrants at once point - but when we came through ellis island, it took approximately 3 to 5 hours (according to multiple sources) - not years of paperwork and then 7 years once you become a citizen.
Darrin: This thread was amending to cover Immigration, and many many others have touched on much more - just search for "Benghazi". I put my list out there to show we have bigger problems affecting more of us directly and indirectly though the waste of our tax dollars than immigration, and certainly can be more humane to those people than we are.
You are right though, immigration is always an issue, it's just not a headliner until something bad happens.
I also don't think I've called you out directly, except for the insult, which you asked for. I believe we've agreed occasionally and I haven't seen you take the hardline, clearly wrong approach that others do.
Well you have to admit that devops labor is cheaper overseas and in regards to safe harbor money Trump is doing a lot to get companies to bring that back with incentives.
I’m also for decriminalization if drugs and pro choice so I have no argument there - the war on drugs is a money pit and we have no way to sustainably support unwanted children. I am not a fan of being forced to pay for it without recourse but it’s cheaper than paying for entitlement programs.
I think we agree on lawful immigration and we definitely need to get a better process on how that works - but it’s unfair to legal immigrants to accept others that jumped the line.
SD: 1. I see no questions from you. 2. Up until now I have been talking to alpha1beta, sorry if you feel left out...so here is one for you:
@SD "When a world traveler goes through a port of entry" That's just the problem....we are not talking about legal entry here, I specifically have stated multiple times ILLEGAL.....some immigrants are trying to sneak around the ports of entry...Further research on my part has discovered the illegal entries have now filled up the capacity of the boarder and they are being forced to turn people away....feel free to do your own research.
I will restate what I said in the message above "we do not hijack threads on specific topic just because we "personally" think something else is more important."
Do you guys have any idea the amount of people coming to the boarder? Do you honestly expect that our already failing infrastructure (as alpha1beta pointed out) can handle every single person coming to the boarder claiming to be looking for a asylum? Do you guys have any idea the cost burden this puts on the U.S.? Not saying turn everyone away, but honestly...where do we draw the line here? As I stated before...we do not even have a pot to piss in, yet we continually help people in need...morally correct, I get it....but we are digging our hole deeper and deeper...when do we worry about ourselves?
"You are right though, immigration is always an issue, it's just not a headliner until something bad happens."
And there you have it. What bad has happened? What is the immigration crisis we are facing today? Or is it just about a man, his wall, and the need to tear down anything Obama? I mean...…...
- Illegal immigrant crisis in massive numbers flooding in from all directions. Hmm, not according to the numbers which show lowest rate trend in decades.
- MS-13 killing us by the thousands? hundreds? "The gang, responsible for dozens of gruesome deaths throughout the U.S." (FOX news) And it's not hard to see these guys coming; they wear billboard announcements.
- Huge increase in drugs --- oh yeah, war on drugs crisis. That's a good one and novel too. But not true. Our opioid crisis does not emanate from South of the Border. It's closer to home than that. No matter the pain, I can't even beg for a Percodan, might as well go to the street.
- Wave of unaccompanied minors --- uh oh, tiny MS-13ers. Babes with tats. Scary monsters indeed.
- Undocumented worker tsunami --- full employment, remember. So stealing our jobs or crisis what crisis? Locking em up or e-verify --- you be the judge.
- the law. OK, good one. But how about asylum seekers treated as criminals. Is their arrival or our reception the crisis on that one
Got any more?
2,000 kids stripped of parents still incarcerated. DHHS has figured out how to fix the problem. They stopped reporting numbers for these kids.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/03/us/separated-families-countdown/index.html
NINE DAYS WITHOUT AN UPDATE ON THE KIDS.
It's America celebrating it's day of liberty so who needs a downer like kid hostages that can only be freed if we build a wall.
Is there a memo that goes out to tell you what to be irate about next?
You’re blaming Trump for Clinton's 1994 law - The only difference between the Trump admin and the Clinton/Bush/Obama admins on this is that Trump has a "zero tolerance" policy towards enforcement.
Bill Clinton's 1996 campaign platform:
“We cannot tolerate illegal immigration and we must stop it. For years before Bill Clinton became President, Washington talked tough but failed to act. In 1992, our borders might as well not have existed. The border was under-patrolled, and what patrols there were, were under-equipped. Drugs flowed freely. Illegal immigration was rampant. Criminal immigrants, deported after committing crimes in America, returned the very next day to commit crimes again. President Clinton is making our border a place where the law is respected and drugs and illegal immigrants are turned away.”
Kid hostages? Give it a rest SD the virtue signaling is transparent - the “asylum seekers are being treated as criminals because they need to petition for it BEFORE they reach US soil - like at OneNote our 19 conveniently located embassies in Mexico
https://mx.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/making-an-appointment/
SD,where were you with all this going on when Obama was in charge??? where was the MSM on this? up his rear end is where they were. . The MSM is the propaganda arm of the Democratic party, its that simple. All you do is repeat the MSM talking points to try and convince the low information voter to pull the lever for the party you represent.
We discuss that above; I refer you to that.
But I feel I must remind you, lest you forget:
1 you won the House.
2 you won the Senate
3 you stole the Presidency with Putin's help
The world is your oyster, drain the swamp, start with Flynn, Manafort, Prewitt, Tillinger, Spicer, Scaramangler, and so on and so on :>)
So blame Obama. Blame Hillary. You can fix this. I know you can. It's easy.
I mean North Korea is like denuclearized, totally. And immigration: we will build a wall and Mexico will pay for it. I know walls. They're easy. I'm a builder.
Just say MAGA three times, click your heels, and you will be in Mayberry, 1955.
Agreed 4catmom
The Pew Research Center found that MSM coverage of Trump was negative 62% of the time, while he received favorable coverage only 5% of the time. Compare that to Obama’s first year in office, when MSM coverage was 42% positive to only 20% negative.
http://www.journalism.org/2017/10/02/a-comparison-to-early-coverage-of-past-administrations/
Skippy - yep, it's twitter.com/realdonaldtrump.
As for IT talent in any area, most places would rather they come here than farm is overseas these days. There's an issue of trust of corporate secrets and espionage as well as some places have front men doing interviews and outsource the coding.
Of course the trump news coverage was negative, I mean he literally jokes about his junk and killing someone and not losing votes, was accused by 16? 17? 18? - SD what's the current count - women of various degrees of sexual assault, plus he ran a phony university. And I could go on and on and on. But we all know even all that negative attention was good attention. I took to calling him teflon Don because nothing stuck with "his base"
Meanwhile, Sean Hannity was ready to overthrow the government when Obama wore a tan suit and another time when gave a salute while holding his latte.
I can't even think of one negative thing I heard about Obama when he first ran other than "Who?"
Comparing purely negative and position coverage, out of context is pointless. It's like comparing Mr Rogers with Cops - of course one is going to be very negative.
In re coding you’re the SME in that area - I know were doing a lot of static and dynamic code reviews and installing WAFs to shore up bad apps created in parts of the world where labor is cheap l, Vietnam & India etc.
I can tell you the negativity certainly didn’t hurt his poll results. Think about your statement that Obama came from nowhere and his political experience consisted of a partial term as a senator and an endorsement by Oprah but he won the presidency and you tell me who controls the “news-speak”. As I am sure JIT will tell you - they’re two sides of the same coin.
Obama did Nothing to help American Citizens. He was polite. So what?!!!
And did you happen to see Obama panic and become a blithering idiot when his teleprompter failed?!
He was a Puppet.
Bill Clinton was 10 x worse than Trump.
(And Hillary did not Divorce this Scum- after he Humiliated her with Monica - Oh- I guess That was OK to you?!)
Regarding his Job-Trump is actually Doing his job (Not merely tapdancing to the media.) Trump is working to Accomplish the goals he outlined during his campaign, that got him Elected!!!
What a Refreshing Change!
LOL you are funny older mom. You call yourself a Christian woman according to another thread but that is false. In the Bible it says that we must accept foreigners and help them the opposite of what your beliefs is. If Jesus Joseph and Mary were to enter today the United States they would be deported. Which is not the right thing to do cording to the Bible as we must help foreigners. Read your Bible and become a real Christian instead of hypocrite. Yes Hillary did not divorce Bill the same like mrs. Trump not divorcing her terrible husband who treats her like crap even in the public eye something to think about. I find it funny you call yourself a Christian woman in another thread but really you're just a hypocrite and you're not following what God's law is really about. Time to open up the Bible and actually read it educate yourself the real way to be a Christian
https://relevantmagazine.com/god/what-bible-says-about-how-treat-refugees
Some literature for your older mom so you learn about how to be a real Christian and that stuff that you make up in your head
Facts are from FOX, CNN and the rest of the manipulative based media?
All quite biased, playing on people's emotions for ratings sake.
Unfortunately, we can't rely on so called journalists anymore, but we can rely on our own judgement. Not sure where that gets us...
Since were bringing up Christianity
Ezekiel 42:20
He measured it on the four sides; it had a wall all around, the length five hundred and the width five hundred, to divide between the holy and the profane.
Romans 13:1-7
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's
Please tell me more about what the Bible says on this issue
Your trigger words are too much SD, and your attempt at trying to justify gang members, unaccompanied minors, drugs, along with a pleathora of other ILLEGAL things is even funnier.....you are running out of straws to grasp as buddy!
Just remember...your spending all this time trying to justify something illegal!!!!
There is literally NO argument here!
Question for you liberals...how do you defend your apparent current stand on abolishing ICE? Are you guys shooting for open boarders? The way I see it right here on our home turf, if it wasn't for ICE 3 minors could have been seriously injured.
Proud Liberal you're insane... This country can't sustain taking every border jumper into this country.
SCOTUS says foreign nationals have no due process rights here.
Read. The article was written by
Matt O'Brien is the former chief of the national security division within the fraud detection and national security directorate at the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (CIS). He has also served as U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement’s assistant chief counsel in the New York District. He is currently director of research at the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR).
https://www.lifezette.com/polizette/supreme-court-says-foreign-nationals-have-no-due-process-rights-here/
And the Supreme Court has been remarkably consistent on this point over the years:
It is not within the province of the courts to order the admission of foreigners who have no formal, legal connection to the United States. "As to such persons, the decisions of executive or administrative officers, acting within powers expressly conferred by Congress, are due process of law." (Murray's Lessee v. Hoboken Land and Improvement Co.; Hilton v. Merritt)
"It is an accepted maxim of international law that every sovereign nation has the power, as inherent in sovereignty and essential to self-preservation, to forbid the entrance of foreigners within its dominions or to admit them only in such cases and upon such conditions as it may see fit to prescribe." (Ekiu v. United States)
The United States need only provide an aliens with a judicial trial when charging them with a crime and seeking a punitive sentence. (Wong Wing v. United States)
"Whatever the rule may be concerning deportation of persons who have gained entry into the United States, it is not within the province of any court, unless expressly authorized by law, to review the determination of the political branch of the Government to exclude a given alien." (Knauff v. Shaughnessy)
Unadmitted, nonresident aliens have no right of entry to the United States as nonimmigrants, or otherwise. (Kleindienst v. Mandel)
Gee, you left of the sentence directly in front of what you published: "Illegal aliens are entitled to considerably less immigration due process than their advocates would have us believe." You do see the words "considerably less" there, didn't you, when you opted to leave off the lead sentence?
Fake news comes in many forms, including spin.
Yes, they have rights. Yes, they are diminished in comparison to a citizen. And when they plant 2 feet in American soil, yell I'm seeking asylum, they are treated as refugees under our acceptance of the 1967 accords.
At that point folks are vetted to see if their request has merit; if not they are immediately deported. If so, our current policy of processing that request takes overs.
Now, you can, within our laws, enact many POLICIES for processing of asylum seekers, including Trump/Session's draconian zero tolerance mandatory family separation and incarceration which he morphed via his unnecessary, but great for photo op, EO, to zero tolerance indefinite family incarceration plan. That's a political choice that Sessions and Trump made.
If you agree with this policy, you are that type of person. If you don't, and you agree with the previous policies of either Bush, Regan, Clinton, Obama, you are another type of person. Like the Trump/Session zero tolerance, mandatory indefinite incarceration policy, it's a choice.
Day 10 and, as far as we know, 2,000 kids still detained after being ripped away from parents seeking asylum. We have no new news from out government of the status of these kids. Well, to fake news buffs, I guess no news is good news. Blinders makes all well. Mushroom people get left in the dark feeding on …… nuff said.
older mom: You do know our groper-in-chief married a woman raised in a Communist Party member family, raised as a Communist, and willing to put up with a guy publicly outed for being sexually spanked by Stormy Daniels and then putting up $130K for hush money, don't you? Just saying what a great roll model, and when grandson spouts out: "I like to grab em by the pussy," just smile and say "no locker room talk at the table, Timmy." :>)
a1beta: what a strange question, I think you need someone else for tracking sexual assault cases. I am russian to putin together data in another direction. And calling our President Teflon Don is just plain wrong. That was Ron, but perfected by Bill, the one President who not only slipped the noose every time, but usually struck back with a viper's venom. Have a good life in obscurity, Ken Starr. Hey, Newt, did they let you out from under the punishment rock yet? No, he's Teflon Con, the great huckster who can look people straight in the eye, tell them he is going to rip them off, and get them to buy even more.
It's been a good run, but if tomorrow's Friday, well that's Mueller Time. In last week's installment, Bob delays Flynn's sentencing since Flynn still has more goods to give. Sleep well Don.... Could this week be Cohen's revenge?
Teflon Con! That's great! You're a treasure, SD!
Mueller's adding more prosecutors!
Taking all bets!
I got $20 on Trump for Treason in the (Golden) Tower.
"I am strictly interested what the Bible has to say"
Glad to hear you're anti-abortion (you know, "thall shalt not kill" and all that...)
Or are you "strictly interested" in what SCOTUS has to say on that one?
And I will add trumpy dumpy just paid a company in China they make his 2020 American flags for his campaign. What happened to having jobs in America. Seriously and why is it okay for him to have immigrants do his labor but turns around and says the opposite for the country. We say hypocrite. Trump supporters aren't getting the whole picture
here is a list of challenges congress is not willing to address:
Much of the underlying law is flawed, such as the William Wilberforce Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act of 2008.
https://www.state.gov/j/tip/laws/113178.htm
interpretation of the Constitution, such as birthright citizenship in the 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. The first sentence reads: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" — needs to be interpreted by SCOTUS.
The legal community and judiciary have expanded Wilberforce to the point of absurdity by devices such as the Flores consent (unfortunately affirmed by SCOTUS). - this is just one part of why illegal alien family separations occur. (Reno v. Flores 507 U.S. 292 (more) 113 S. Ct. 1439, 123 L. Ed. 2d 1, 1993 U.S. LEXIS 2399, 61 U.S.L.W. 4237, 93 Cal. Daily Op. Service 2028, 93 Daily Journal DAR 3628, 7 Fla. L. Weekly Fed. S 73) which turned into Flores v. Loretta Lynch. The 9th circuit sided with the plaintiff and held that the decree required the government to remove both accompanied and unaccompanied minors from detention facilities within a short period, which is now considered 72 hours.
https://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2016/07/06/15-56434.pdf
Any Federal judge of thousands can legislate from the bench un-constitutionally acting in place of both legislature and executive. (looking at you Judge Watson of Honolulu). The 9th circuit judiciary insists absurdly that any person reaching US soil must have extensive due process - administrative judges, courts, and hearings; etc.
costing us millions of taxpayer dollars. Hence why we have Sessions constructing the asylum policy in this manner..
The number of Latinos living in America legally and illegally, has reach a huge critical mass (45m to 60m) such that most politicians are afraid to broach the subject.
http://www.pewhispanic.org/2017/09/18/facts-on-u-s-latinos/
The entirety of the #resistance to include the Courts, legislature, media, academia, and the democrat and portions of the GOP establishment are willing to deform the law and approach violence as a way to enforce open borders.
why you may ask?
Half of the country has adopted open borders as their admitted strategy to absorb more and more "undocumented Democrats" ( https://www.salon.com/2013/04/03/jay_leno_call_them_undocumented_democrats/). Their purpose is to render the USA into the same one-party status as has been done already in California and for almost all major cities.
http://www.apsanlaw.com/law-246.List-of-Sanctuary-cities.html
and SD is right the RINOS in office are the problem.. we have the control.
They make decisions not where they stand on the issues, but where they stand in the polls. we have republican representatives and congress people who are more comfortable spending Sunday brunch sipping mimosas with George Stephanopoulos than working through this stuff.
the RINOS in office are the real undocumented Democrats.
"And I will add trumpy dumpy just paid a company in China they make his 2020 American flags for his campaign. "
nothing burger - borderline fake news
"It is unclear if the flags were ordered by an individual business or by the official Trump campaign, "
"It is unclear whether the organization is the one to have ordered the flags revealed to NPR and, if it did, whether it planned to give the flags away at rallies and events rather than sell them."
http://www.newsweek.com/america-first-donald-trump-2020-china-1009232
"Seriously and why is it okay for him to have immigrants do his labor but turns around and says the opposite for the country. We say hypocrite. Trump supporters aren't getting the whole picture"
you do understand the difference between hiring an illegal alien in the US and contracting a Chinese company to produce a product made by CHINESE PEOPLE IN CHINA?
both sides used the vendor during the election
"also made flags for Trump and Hillary Clinton during 2016. According to NPR"
is this a slow news day or what?
I cohen-to-go $20 for Jared's 666 contract with the devil. I mean he bet his frickin soul on a building...stormy weather on that one.
no wait, it's $20 on Don Jrs, or DJ's (think twice about that name Darrin :>), meeting to solve the word's adoption crisis-what-crisis right after he fixes world hunger. Yeah, sure, that's what everyone calls KGB operatives for. Right after they call Ghostbusters...……
no wait, it's $20 on I-don't-really-care-do-u Melania turns out to be a communist still.
no wait, its $20 on Ivanka's Chinese shoe deal or the ZTE/Trump Tower deal
Shoot --- can we go for a trifecta?
One thing is certain: zero tolerance mandatory family separation and incarceration IS NOT Trump's Katrina. Puerto Rico takes that honor and we are now well over that line.
2,000 kids still held as of last report from DHHS who does not report bad things anymore. Mission accomplished.
Jeff if you must know I do not believe in abortion I don't support it and I don't like it so there you go
Well, a broken clock is right twice a day at least ;)
In all seriousness, glad to hear it.
Prewitt resigns: White House announces yuge used mattress and hand, yeah right, hand lotion sale. Plus biometric security, cone of silence, and office furniture too. Best prices ever.
In related news, 22 security guards are looking for work.
MoistureGate is over!
Cohen hires long-time Clinton lawyer. Wonder what the lock-her-up legal defense team will suggest for Cohen to do?
Illegals captured by ICE were also responsible for more than 5,000 sexual assault offenses, 2,000 kidnapping offenses, 1,800 homicide offenses and 76,000 dangerous drug offenses
ICE’s Homeland Security Investigations unit made 4,818 gang arrests in 2017.
“Abolishing ICE would mean that countless illegal aliens who pose a threat to public safety would be allowed to roam free — killing, injuring, and threatening Americans — instead of being removed from the country,”
The release also highlights the role of ICE in seizing illegal drugs, noting the agency seized 980,000 pounds of narcotics in 2017, with 2,370 pounds of fentanyl and 6,967 pounds of heroin seized.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/abolishing-ice-erase-americas-borders-open-floodgates-crime-drugs-terrorism/
In re Pruitt - he did a lot of good work but exposed himself (and the administration) with wasteful spending and stuff that is unethical - Trump responded to it and fired him.
1st-class air travel
expanded, 24-hour security detail
a sweetheart rent deal on a DC condo owned by a lobbyist with business before the EPA and a $40,000 private phone booth in his office.
I think he has 13 separate congressional and oversight inquiries - he needed to go.
Cohen is not stupid, you have to be really impressed that HRC is not wearing a jump suit in some penitentiary some where. Hiring her lawyer was a smart move. Now if he only had the connections to the injustice department she had.
Skippy, It has become apparent they do not want talking points they cannot defend....they have already ignored my ICE question:
"Question for you liberals...how do you defend your apparent current stand on abolishing ICE? Are you guys shooting for open boarders? The way I see it right here on our home turf, if it wasn't for ICE 3 minors could have been seriously injured."
You bring valid points to the table...but since there was nothing but crickets when I asked, I am assuming you will get the same treatment.
Yeah, like HRC’s and WJC’s lawyer doesn’t have payback time in mind.
Skippy, you know you can’t trust this unsubstantiated, un-sourced purveyor of continual lies wothout first vetting the numbers. Not without fact checkers, sorry.
I question people's sanity who want ICE abolished. Are we trying to welcome more crime? Those 3 children on Main St could have ended up seriously hurt or worse. You think this isn't happening in other parts of the country? If you don't think so then you're kidding yourselves...
Darrin: the reason I did not answer your profound ICE question is that this liberal does not believe abolishing ICE. Not sure because while some liberals speak out on that, all liberals do not share this belief making your point moot. And you can look up what they think, I do not speak for them either, sorry.
um.. I am pretty sure they listed the source as ICE ERO report.
https://www.ice.gov/removal-statistics/2017
sorry you cant just blow that one off.
I haven't decided yet on "Abolish ICE". But I'd be open to "Repeal and replace ICE"
Skippy quote:
"you do understand the difference between hiring an illegal alien in the US and contracting a Chinese company to produce a product made by CHINESE PEOPLE IN CHINA?
both sides used the vendor during the election
"also made flags for Trump and Hillary Clinton during 2016. According to NPR"
Although this was not directed at me, I do understand the difference
The question should be not on the legal aspect, but the patriotic one.
Skippy, which side did their patriotic duty by hiring the vendor?
Do two wrongs make a right?
Are either or both sides hypocrites?
Why support either side?
Did both sides have an option to hire an American company to make these flags, and if so, why did neither side choose to have an American company make a patriotic symbol?
Metsman: When people say Abolish ICE, I have to believe that the vast majority of them want to rebuild/replace it, maybe go back to more like INS or a different organization structure with new leadership and a reasonable respect for basic human dignity that report to the DOJ rather than the DHS.
Also, Border Patrol is a separate division - they're the ones catching people at the border.
Anyone want to chime in to define what "Abolish ICE" means to you?
@ SD Correct, except for the moot part...it is a current topic apparently warranting protesting and marches....not everything we talk about we have to disagree on, so lets talk about it and not ignore the topic simply because you (may) agree with me.
alpha1beta, ok, fish on....so why do you feel ICE is not needed? or if that is not the case, what do you feel should be the replacement for ICE?
You guys do know there are legal paths to becoming a citizen right? Not everyone deserves the "free ride" of saying their seeking asylum.....that's much like claiming bankruptcy....easy way out in my book, and our government hands out way too many easy way outs, I am glad to see them finally showing some discretion...now if they would do that with all government funding we would be on the right path!
Again Skippy: I can not accept anything on face value coming out of this WhiteHouse. They seem to lie a lot.
When Kirstjen Nielsen, DHS director, from the WhiteHouse, addressed the zero tolerance mandatory family separation and incarceration without reunification policy, she had so much spin, lies, and deceit that were even obvious to the casual observer, so I exercise caution before jumping onto the WhiteHouse fact bus. Too many WhiteHouse spokespersons have been thrown under that bus for their lies already.
So, to vet this I need to check all the WH facts against your ICE report. Hoping for fact checkers to do the work.
Meanwhile: we have new updates on the 2,000 kids being returned by DHHS who had created a blackout of status. We now have 3,000 kids suffering the results of our zero tolerance mandatory family separation and incarceration without reunification process.
There's an underground railroad started though to help our cause for family values and family freedom. Volunteers are funding bonds for release of incarcerated asylum-seeking refugee parents, then transporting hem via car pool, since DHHS has stripped whatever documentation they had, from the boarder to Chicago, NYC, and the like where the kids are most certainly not all right, to reunify families. Don't watch: these flicks may be more heart wrenching than the removals.
OK SD...your obviously reading CNN as this is the only one currently posting that number...
https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/05/politics/separated-families-border-immigrants-number-of-kids/index.html
Interesting take-away that you selectively ignored.....
"have been separated from their purported parents who were taken into DHS custody for having crossed illegally or for other reasons like concerns for the safety of the child.""
Key word....crossed illegally and other reasons like concerns for the safety of the child...exactly as we have been stating....these are people trying to skip the legal boarder crossings or other dangers doings that endanger the children....but you are oh so concerned.....
SD it’s laughable that you think all of these people are seeking asylum. These people tried to cross illegally, got caught, and then used asylum as an excuse. They came here to mooch off the system like their predecessors. I’m sure that guy who ICE caught on Main St wasn’t paying any taxes.
And you people who are against a border wall… you think those 2000-3000 kids are capable of climbing a wall? You think their parents are skilled in scaling a wall with no rope? A wall along with surveillance and manpower will put an end to this crap, but instead the liberals want to label Trump as a dictator instead of doing their damn jobs and voting for common sense measures. No one has a right just to walk into any country they desire to. It doesn’t work that way.
Libera family values and freedom ?
Like in Canada where they take your kids if you reject their preferred pronouns?
https://www.dailysignal.com/2017/06/27/new-law-canada-remove-kids-parents-reject-transgender-ideology/
So taking kids away when parents make personal choice how to raise their children is ok. But it's not ok when the parents commit a crime.
SD, even with your long posts, I cannot figure out your stance on illegal immigration. You obviously enjoy arguing just for the sake of it and ripping our President, but what is your opinion on people coming into this country illegally and what should be done with them - if anything? Are you for open borders?
“Skippy, which side did their patriotic duty by hiring the vendor?“
Failure to buy American on all counts - if it’s true that the Trumps campaign bought them it’s obviously worse since they push the buy American angle but As I stated it’s apparenly a dead issue. Have not seen more about it
http://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Final_HHP_Jun2018_RegisteredVoters_Topline_Memo.pdf
June 2018 Harvard- Harris poll found that 61% of registered voters believe that illegal aliens with children should not be allowed to stay in the United States but “sent home” to their native country.
Sixty-one percent said “sent home,” and 39% said, “stay in the country.”
In addition, the survey asked, “Do you think that people who illegally cross into the country should be prosecuted for illegally entering or not?”
Fifty-three percent said, “prosecuted,” and 47% said, “not prosecuted.”
Here is what I don't get :
“parents” come with their kids and are then separated.
- Trump is a Nazi who separated kids from their parents
"Parents" are then given due process, case is adjudicated, deportation is ordered and they are reunited with their kids.
-Trump is a Nazi who wants to send these kids back with their parents, smuggle them to a sanctuary city...
meanwhile in LA - Los Angeles on approved a $10 million fund to provide legal help to children separated from their parents at the U.S.-Mexico border - meanwhile the city has a homeless population of 58K http://homeless.lacounty.gov/
https://kdwn.com/2018/07/04/los-angeles-approves-10m-to-help-separated-children/
Oh - and they want you to pay for state-subsidized healthcare for ADULT llegal aliens.
"More than 100,000 undocumented adult immigrants in California would be eligible for state-subsidized health coverage under a major budget push announced by Assembly Democrats on Monday.
Lawmakers are asking Gov. Jerry Brown for $1 billion, a large portion of which would fund a major expansion of Medi-Cal, the state's low-income health care program. Roughly a quarter of the request – $250 million – would extend Medi-Cal to undocumented immigrant adults who are ineligible for coverage."
https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article210645664.html
this type of Liberalism is NOT sustainable
ttps://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasdelbeccaro/2018/04/19/the-top-four-reasons-california-is-unsustainable/2/#3565c28755ce"
and they want the rest of the country to pay for it.
ttps://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasdelbeccaro/2017/04/05/ca-is-heading-due-left-and-how-you-are-paying-for-it/#6896950f1dce"
stop the madness!
Oh man...… "OK SD..your (sic).obviously reading CNN as this is the only one currently posting that number..." Absolutely correct except I heard in on MSNBC, did not read it on CNN, and so, more than one source is reporting it. Beyond that, Darrin is spot on: obviously.
But WHO CARES, it's the HSS government published number and in a long diatribe he even explains it. But if you read that like I do, he is saying: "we don't have a frickin clue how big the number really is and shat if I want to be caught low balling it so I'm goin large. I mean, frack, we can't find the kids, can't put them with the parents, I don't even know where these kids are. I mean some of them are really small."
"Interesting take-away that you selectively ignored....." Beyond the simple conundrum of Darrin saying I ignored something that I did not read, did not hear, I think, my friend, additionally you know the truth.
They are "illegal" because the zero tolerance mandatory family and separation without reunification POLICY makes it illegal. So, of course, he touts the illegality. Otherwise, he has to be re-schooled by Trump...….and that's not pleasant: ask Prewitt, Scaramangler, (wow, we're gonna need a bigger post), Tillerson, Sessions (what kind of an a-wipe would take that abuse just to be able to go down as "the great separator" working for "the divider in chief." Damn, Session's past racism is starting to look good against his recent family values. Sorry, I digress....but you started it. :>)
According to the 1967 Protocol that we signed, and got 145 other nations to sign & comply with: "The Contracting States shall not impose penalties, on account of their illegal entry or presence, on refugees who, coming directly from a territory
where their life or freedom was threatened in the sense of article 1, enter or
are present in their territory without authorization, provided they present
themselves without delay to the authorities and show good cause for their
illegal entry or presence."
It's Article 31 of the Convention.
I think you know the truth because you wrote "So far....12,000 kids have been taken in....OF WHICH 10,000 crossed the boarder WITHOUT their parents or were SENT by their parents 2,000 were removed from their parents after they broke the LAW."
Or, if you don't believe yourself......
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/are-10000-children-in-u-s-detention-centers/
So you know there's a hell of a lot over 3,000 being held, and you know DHSS is parsing them out between w/wo parents. You also know that MANY, not all, but most, of the 3,000 with parents were asylum seekers that, according to our protocol, we should not penalize. Instead our protocol is expensive, ineffective, and mean-spirited POLICY that Sessions is forcing to be followed with Trump's approval.
Not your finest moment Dude. Like I told Skippy, you're on the losing side of history on this one.
I will just leave this right here...
“In March of 1993, The United States Supreme Court issued a ruling in Reno v Flores. (Yes, “That” Reno. Janet Reno, Bill Clinton’s first Attorney General who ordered that young Elian Gonzalez be torn from his family’s arms while hiding in a Miami closet. You might remember the iconic photograph.)
The Court in Flores decided that minors could not be incarcerated with the adults accompanying them across the United States border illegally. The decision was the result of a long dispute in how to best care for these children while the adults were detained for criminal proceedings.
You see, when aliens cross the border illegally, they are incarcerated until their criminal case is decided. The understandable argument at the time was “why should children be incarcerated while their parents are in jail?” It seemed a fundamental violation of international human rights. Makes sense, right?
As a result, The Flores case drew a line in the sand. Children could not be incarcerated with their parents or accompanying adult while being held for illegal immigration violations. And a subsequent 1997 agreement stipulated that children must be placed in a safer environment where they could enjoy certain privileges, including education, a clean, safe environment and other normal life cycle amenities that incarcerated individuals do not enjoy.
It was considered a “victory” for human rights. By separating adult and child, we protected the children, reducing any harm done to them for their parent’s or accompanying adult’s decisions.
A lot has happened since then. However; bottom line, these juvenile, shelters have been operating in accordance with the law, and overseen by the Department of Health and Human Services to protect those children from the hazards of parental incarceration since 1997.
So, since Donald Trump was running his real estate empire, selling wine and casinos in 1993, we are left to determine just how he managed to orchestrate this cruel “separation of immigrant parent and child” 25 years BEFORE he was President of the United States. The obvious answer is, he didn’t. He had nothing to do with establishing this United States immigration policy. Today, he simply enforces it.
This one story illustrates how important it is for us to do our research regarding today’s headlines. The Corporate Media either refuses to do the research, is incapable of doing the research or has done the research and decided to lie to you about its findings. Either way, this would make the Corporate Media lazy, incompetent or just plain deceptive. Liars, if you will.”
"DHS has stripped any documentation they had".
Has DHS admitted to doing so or are the Pro Immigration people making that claim.
SD, you really need to read what others are posting....it's getting quite rediculous! Everyone is saying orange and your yelling NO BLUE over and over! Get your facts straight dude.
I have stated (multiple times now) That the people being detained are people who ILLEGALLY crossed the boarder (to spell this out, this is people trying to sneak through the boarder)(or as also stated in CNN's article people who put their children in danger) There is ZERO TOLERANCE for this.....that is your zero tolerance policy that you are repeatedly trying to mix up with asylum seekers....even though multiple people have told you other wise.
These are NOT people walking into a boarder crossing saying I seek a asylum...this is a legal action...BUT...the problem is the facilities are so over capacity right now (costing us millions of dollars for sure (but this is okay?)) that they are being forced to turn away the asylum seekers.
Scottso: what is “your stance on illegal immigration. You obviously enjoy arguing just for the sake of it and ripping our President…..” Wow, is that how you break the ice? My question is how can you lower yourself to support this value-less man? How can you condone his actions, his lies, his cruelty?
“Are you for open borders?” Seriously, what is that beyond a brand name someone convinced you was cool? How do you define "open borders?"
My thoughts: The Session’s/Trump policy of separating families was ill conceived, badly implemented, and just unnecessary. It's a moral low ground and economically inefficient. His, and Darrin's, “it’s the law” stand followed by immediate retraction of said “law” via unnecessary, but photo-op-PR-stunt EO speaks volumes as to his lies, hypocrisy, and people’s acceptance of these low-minded values. With 3,000 kids still held hostage, this swallow still has more bad news to roost. Very bad news.
To say the answer is “build a wall, Mexico will pay lie” is just as stupid as Trump’s zero tolerance mandatory family separation followed by incarceration without reunification policy or “I can fix ObamaCare” stupid, simple claims. It is not simple, stupid won’t fix it and you can’t fix stupid either.
It’s not easy. You can’t just say “but what is your opinion on people coming into this country illegally.” There’s asylum seekers, legal job seekers, H1B’s, illegal job seekers illegal hiring by employers for both legal and illegals, MS-13, terrorists, drug runners, etc. There is no “one size fixes all.”
JIT speaks volumes when he noted: Congress won’t act. Across the aisle, without creating comprehensive immigration reform, major elements could EASILY be made law making major strides in improving our immigration policies. It's just weird.
To end undocumented workers gaining employment, mandatory, universal use of e-verify will stop 75% of the illegal worker problem INSTANTLY except for 25% problem of fake valid ID holders. That cures the lion’s share of the TOTAL immigration crisis right there. Done. Over. E-verify is decades-tested, decades proven, and I am sure we can make it perfect --- easily. No wall needed. No need to go after employers. No wall needed. Just done. Boom, problem solved.
For fake IDs, which is about 20-25% of the time, need to put IRS, DHHS, DHS, CIS and the rest of the alphabet stew together to solve the problem. IF we allow these organizations to coordinate efforts on fake IDs, boom, PROBLEM SOLVED, and this solution has benefits beyond illegal immigration.
For asylum seekers, improve the vetting process, continue rapid deportation for those who don’t vet, keep families together, avoid incarceration but assure 99% success in court appearances using ankle bracelets. Provide access to pro bono legal services. Boom, problem solved. We save all that money we are wasting on incarceration.
IF you want more from asylum seekers, we need to comply (or change) the 1967 Asylum Protocol that we established, world-wide. If we dim our largest shining light on our hill, others will extinguish theirs.
For immigration based on waiting-jobs or immigration based on desire (I just want to come to America), we need a variety of programs with measurements and metrics for success. Will cover in future entry.
Enjoy the day, see you on break :>)
"America should just take control of Mexico and Central America."
Now there's a plan....
934 posts on this thread.....I guess I'll never fully understand the logic-override of politics, religion or professional sports fanaticism.
And, being one of almost 1000, nothing I say here will make a damned bit of difference.
Yet we all still post....
jjmonth4 Nicely Stated !
"If your so concerned about the situation these people are in then sponsor a family to live in your home until they become US citizens, and pay their taxes."
Grab on to this statement liberals and put "your monies" where you mouth is "...or as the saying goes "put up, or shut up"
I am exhausted and disgusted supporting persons from other countries here illegally while my son has to pay off student loans !
steven Theres nothing more ridiculous than a bunch of suburban/rural homeowners thinking what they think makes a difference on a global scale. This is especially true if their critical thinking skills are atrophied by watching only one or two news sources. Especially if those new sources are funded by advertisers. I like this forum for tips and referrals that only neighbors can provide. I don't bother wasting time or energy reading 99 % of the posts here because it is clear that the opinions are rooted in fear of the other and wanting to fit in. Happy Sunday y'all!
JWolfe75 Darrin states: “I have stated (multiple times now) That (sic) the people being detained are people who ILLEGALLY crossed the boarder (sic)”
Again --- Many of these people are legal asylum seekers. They are not: ”this is (sic) people trying to sneak through the boarder.” If you can come up with numbers for legal versus illegal, we can discuss your point further but bear in mind that illegal crossing for asylum is a misdemeanor for first-timers. Thanks to a Trump EO, we now deport misdemeanors just like felonies. That’s not law, that's EO POLICY. And then Session’s instructs border agents to stop legal crossings whenever possible. Sweeet.
Again, I excerpted Article 31 of the 1967 Asylum Protocol that we championed and 145 other countries signed and implemented which clearly specifies: "The Contracting States shall not impose penalties, on account of their illegal entry or presence, on refugees who, coming directly from a territory where their life or freedom was threatened in the sense of article 1”
We now penalize legal and illegal asylum seekers under Trump POLICY.
As I noted, the crisis has been created by Trump’s zero tolerance family separation followed by incarceration without reunification POLICY which, if law as you feel, could not be law as it was modified to Trump’s zero tolerance family plan mandatory incarceration POLICY. Trump can not create law.
In other words, Trump has POLICY-ordered detention for legal asylum seekers by claiming all asylum seekers, whether at the port of entry or sneaking through are equally illegal acts. It is not law.
You believe an administration who lies, is known to lie all the time, and now fills your head with: “I hate the children being taken away. The Democrats have to change their law. That’s their law.” Trump lie, June 15 “We have the worst immigration laws in the entire world. Nobody has such sad, such bad and, actually, in many cases, such horrible and tough — you see about child separation, you see what’s going on there.” Trump lie, June 18 “It’s the law, and that’s what the law states.” Sarah Huckabee Sanders lie, June 14 “We do not have a policy of separating families at the border. Period.” Kirstjen Nielsen yugest whopper of all, June 17
Here’s what I am saying. Recently, WAPO concluded: “We’ve published two fact-checks about family separations, but it turns out these Trumpian claims have a zombie quality and keep popping up in new ways.” https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2018/06/19/the-facts-about-trumps-policy-of-separating-families-at-the-border/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.ad5d4b00176d
"All you zombies hide your faces, All you people in the street, All you sittin' in high places, The pieces gonna fall on you." Hooters, sorry, couldn't help myself.
At the same time, these rule-of-law gentlemen have instructed border agents to aggravate the crisis: “It’s legal to seek asylum at an official border crossing. But border agents are blocking people from getting that far.” https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/6/5/17428640/border-families-asylum-illegal
And they are looking to overturn Flores so that they can detain kids indefinably.
Darrin, if you can come up with numbers for illegal versus illegal, we can talk. Otherwise, I contend the entire 3,000 kids held hostage are legal asylum seekers, or at worse case, POTENTIAL (innocent until proven) misdemeanor criminals, a potential crime of low seriousness. It's yet another reality TV PR moment created by Trump to send a message of who were are.
these folks are exercising defensive asylum through Executive Office for Immigration Review (EOIR) in the Department of Justice. which means asylum is being applied for “as a defense against removal from the U.S.” and that absolutely falls under sessions purview.
easy way to avoid that issue - Affirmative Asylum: apply for asylum through U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services before you get caught and are in the process of removal.
the asylum seeker has ALWAYS had the burden of proving that he or she meets the definition of a refugee as codified in 101(a)(42) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA).( from 1965, also known as the Hart–Celler Act - clearly Trumpian time traveler created)
https://www.uscis.gov/ilink/docView/SLB/HTML/SLB/0-0-0-1/0-0-0-29/0-0-0-101/0-0-0-195.html
"a well-founded fear of future persecution" - as long as it's based on race, religion, nationality, political opinion, or membership in at least one particular social group"
In all cases the standard for this is the credible fear test. for individuals intercepted at the border and claiming asylum - this interview is conducted by an asylum officer during the expedited removal process.
this is directed by federal statute and regulations, plus the CBP’s policy outlined in the Inspector’s Field Manual (IFM). - again Trump the time traveler strikes again.
https://dyanwilliamslaw.com/2016/10/expedited-removal-how-does-the-process-work-at-the-u-s-port-of-entry/
This means that the person has the burden to prove that they have a “significant possibility” of establishing eligibility for asylum or other protection under the Convention Against Torture and will be referred to immigration court to proceed with the defensive asylum application process - if this burden is not met they can appeal to a judge. If the negative finding is upheld they get removed from the United States.
The number of credible fear cases is up and to the right —in FY 2009, USCIS completed 5,523 cases. Case completions reached an all-time high in FY 2016 at 92,071 and decreased to 79,977 in FY 2017.
https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/USCIS/Outreach/Notes%20from%20Previous%20Engagements/PED_CredibleFearWorkloadReport.pdf
This process can take years.
The backlog in U.S. immigration courts reached an all-time high in March 2018 with more than 690,000 open deportation cases. On average, these cases had been pending for 718 days and remained unresolved.
http://trac.syr.edu/phptools/immigration/court_backlog/apprep_backlog.php
the government can hold these folks for up to 6 months without a hearing - remember they OPTED OUT of the expedited return process and wanted to wait it out.
"Mandatory Detention. Foreign nationals arriving without proper documents
who express to the immigration officer a fear of being returned home must be kept
in detention while their “credible fear” cases are pending.13 If an asylum officer
determines that an alien does not have a “credible fear” of persecution, the alien is
removed. If the asylum seeker meets the “credible fear” threshold, they may be
released on their own recognizance while an immigration judge considers the case."
Time Traveling Trump got this one through in 2005
https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL32621.pdf
In FY 2016 - 20,455 individuals were granted asylum: 11,729 affirmatively and 8,726 defensively (Figure 1). Total annual asylum grants averaged 23,669 between FY 2007 and FY 2016.
https://www.dhs.gov/immigration-statistics/yearbook/2016/table16
meanwhile in the same time period
ICE conducted 240,255 removals.
ICE conducted 65,332 removals of individuals apprehended by ICE officers (i.e., interior removals)
60,318 (92 percent) of all interior removals were previously convicted of a crime.
ICE conducted 174,923 removals of individuals apprehended at or near the border or ports of entry.
58 percent of all ICE removals, or 138,669, were previously convicted of a crime.
ICE conducted 60,318 interior criminal removals.
ICE removed 78,351 criminals apprehended at or near the border or ports of entry.
99.3 percent of all ICE FY 2016 removals, or 238,466, met one or more of ICE’s stated civil immigration enforcement priorities.
Of the 101,586 aliens removed who had no criminal conviction, 95 percent, or 96,572, were apprehended at or near the border or ports of entry.
The leading countries of origin for removals were Mexico, Guatemala, Honduras, and El Salvador.
2,057 aliens removed by ICE were classified as suspected or confirmed gang members.
https://www.ice.gov/removal-statistics/2016
so to your statement
"Darrin, if you can come up with numbers for illegal versus illegal, we can talk. Otherwise, I contend the entire 3,000 kids held hostage are legal asylum seekers, or at worse case, POTENTIAL (innocent until proven) misdemeanor criminals, a potential crime of low seriousness."
you have the numbers for the last year available
you now understand they are seeking asylum as an affirmative defensive to avoid expedited return - ergo a mitigating factor to a crime.
you now know detention is mandatory.
none of this had ANYTHING to do with Trump Sessions.
SD, in the same post you do not answer a simple question because it's 'too complicated' then go on to list how simple each situation is to solve. So which is it, simple or complicated?
I'm trying to find common ground with you and to do so we need to start somewhere right? So again I ask a simple question...
Do you think anyone in a foreign country that wants to come to America to live should be able to do so? It's not a difficult question. It's not a complicated one. What do YOU believe? Don't tell me about Trump.
"which means asylum is being applied for “as a defense against removal from the U.S.”
...and that may be the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. It's worse than "the glove doesn't fit"
"Do you think anyone in a foreign country that wants to come to America to live should be able to do so?"
Yes. But you have to get in line, and follow the requisite LAWS to do so. PERIOD.
Just like when citizens want to drive. Or want to purchase a firearm. Or want to open a business. Or... or.... or.... FOLLOW THE LAWS. And if there's a wait, there's a wait. Period. (and those are people who are ALREADY CITIZENS)
iJay Skippy makes good points on the true history of this issue, it's not new and it is a problem that needs to be dealt with instead of ignored.
Don''t believe the repeated lies above, they are wrong and ignore true history.
Elian Gonzales in 1993. Clinton was president, Janet Reno was the AG who ordered that young Elian Gonzalez be torn from his family’s arms while hiding in a Miami closet. You might remember the iconic photograph..
The SCOTUS in Reno vs Flores decided that minors could not be incarcerated with the adults accompanying them across the United States border illegally. The decision was the result of a long dispute in how to best care for these children while the adults were detained for criminal proceedings.
You see, when aliens cross the border illegally, they are incarcerated until their criminal case is decided. The understandable argument at the time was “why should children be incarcerated while their parents are in jail?” It seemed a fundamental violation of international human rights. Makes sense, right?
As a result, The Flores case drew a line in the sand. Children could not be incarcerated with their parents or accompanying adult while being held for illegal immigration violations including asylum.
A subsequent 1997 agreement stipulated that children must be placed in a safer environment where they could enjoy certain privileges, including education, a clean, safe environment and other normal life cycle amenities that incarcerated individuals do not enjoy.
It was considered a “victory” for human rights. By separating adult and child, we protected the children, reducing any harm done to them for their parent’s or accompanying adult’s decisions.
A lot has happened since then. However; bottom line, these juvenile, shelters have been operating in accordance with the law, and overseen by the Department of Health and Human Services to protect those children from the hazards of parental incarceration since 1997.
So, since Donald Trump was not president in 1993, just how did he manage to orchestrate this cruel “separation of immigrant parent and child” 25 years BEFORE he was President of the United States. ???
This illustrates how important it is to do research regarding today’s headlines. The MSM and liberal bloggers either refuse to do the research, or are incapable of doing the research and decided to lie to you about this issue. Either way, this makes the MSM and liberal blogosphere lazy, incompetent or just plain deceptive. Liars, if you will. They lie and they continue to lie to you, repeatedly, right on this board.
And some of regular OCD commenters on this little local town forum have fallen for these lies, hook line and sinker, I call BS on their continuation of the nonsense
Keep up the good work Skippy, you are correct when others on here are not
Democrat numbers is the one true goal behind a push in re immigration
“We reform the immigration laws; it puts 12 million people on the path to citizenship and eventually voters. If we have eight million new voters who care about, and will be voting, we will be creating a governing coalition for the long term.”
Eliseo Medina member of Obama’s National Latino Advisory Council and as honorary chair of the Democratic Socialists of America.
Good for US Catholic Churches too.
But please tell us why Republicans can’t garner new Latino voters?
@SD "Darrin, if you can come up with numbers for illegal versus illegal, we can talk. Otherwise, I contend the entire 3,000 kids held hostage are legal asylum seekers, or at worse case, POTENTIAL (innocent until proven) misdemeanor criminals, a potential crime of low seriousness. It's yet another reality TV PR moment created by Trump to send a message of who were are."
Well ain't that some ass backwards logic!!!!!
Mr Google....how about you JFGI and get your own numbers???!!!!! Oh that's right, because you already know the answer, but do not want to discuss it, because it goes DIRECTLY against what you are saying!
Oh look at skippy go....Chew on that SD!!!!
And I will double quote skippy.....(Just for punctual reasons)
In FY 2016 - 20,455 individuals were granted asylum: 11,729 affirmatively and 8,726 defensively
meanwhile in the same time period
ICE conducted 240,255 removals.
ICE conducted 65,332 removals of individuals apprehended by ICE officers (i.e., interior removals)
60,318 (92 percent) of all interior removals were previously convicted of a crime.
ICE conducted 174,923 removals of individuals apprehended at or near the border or ports of entry.
58 percent of all ICE removals, or 138,669, were previously convicted of a crime.
ICE conducted 60,318 interior criminal removals.
ICE removed 78,351 criminals apprehended at or near the border or ports of entry.
99.3 percent of all ICE FY 2016 removals, or 238,466, met one or more of ICE’s stated civil immigration enforcement priorities.
Of the 101,586 aliens removed who had no criminal conviction, 95 percent, or 96,572, were apprehended at or near the border or ports of entry.
The leading countries of origin for removals were Mexico, Guatemala, Honduras, and El Salvador.
2,057 aliens removed by ICE were classified as suspected or confirmed gang members.
So what do you have to say about that????
I hear crickets coming on.....
@SD "But please tell us why Republicans can’t garner new Latino voters?"
Do you have any proof of this, or is that just your dark racist side coming out?
Darrin, you do know that Latinos are of the Caucasian race, don’t you? Just like most Republicans.
What sort of racism were you insinuating?
@SD "But please tell us why Republicans can’t garner new Latino voters?"
LOL, please tell us why the democrats can't either, unless they let them in illegally/promise them asylum and financial benefits.
And please tell us why your party wanted to vote for crazy Doc Brown (and DID vote for a crazy admitted socialist in NY) instead of the "seasoned, experienced, professional" HRC. And also why the "seasoned, experienced, professional" HRC couldn't beat someone who's own party didn't even want him. An outsider, rich (evil) guy, who can't stop putting his foot in his mouth and used the "p&*sy" phrase.
Please tell us why the "tolerant, peaceful" left has been inciting violence and riots.
In reality, no one cares: the democrat party is burning itself down. I really thought they were smarter than that, but apparently not. There's even a movement beginning now, #walkaway, that's about democrats stepping back from the insane leadership (Schumer, Pelosi, Waters, et al) of the party, because they've run off the rails, are going down in flames, and want to take the entire party with them.... and the left is SO TOLERANT they even attacked the founder of the movement...
https://www.naturalnews.com/2018-07-07-walkaway-founder-abused-by-hate-filled-left-wing-bigots-at-a-public-camera-store.html
Scottso, you originally asked: “…your stance on illegal immigration…. what is your opinion on people coming into this country illegally and what should be done with them - if anything? Are you for open borders?
As I noted – my first part covered the illegal stuff so sorry if you were left wanting more. It answered your question, but then you asked: “Do you think anyone in a foreign country that wants to come to America to live should be able to do so? It's not a difficult question.” Now, check me if I’m wrong, but isn’t that a different question? JR says: Yes. Ijay agrees. I say No. Go figure on that one, but hey, I just say there's certain people out there that shouldn't even try. No matter what their "wants" are.
As I noted in the first part, here’s the second part covering the legal stuff on immigration.
For immigration-based jobs and desire-based immigration, IMO, we need a number of different programs under the same umbrella that we should test and measure against metrics.. We would like to attract talent but at the same time want to continue our heritage of compassion for those who just want the American dream. We can create a total “budget” for number allowed and then pie-chart that budget against the different programs and targets. Targets can be as simple as: rich guys, smart guys, talented guys, guys with money, guys needing money, guys who just love American, whatever “merit” we decide upon…..but let’s keep it as local as possible rather than federal, if we can.
For example, create a merit-based green card H1B status category at the STATE LEVEL so states can target outside talent not domestically available. Now we have merit-based, where the
merit is a skill and the skill is needed IN THAT STATE. Cool.
Unlike the monolithic simplistic Trump, I don’t say merit-based is the simple answer. Steve Jobs couldn’t pass a merit-based system. Maybe another “merit,” might be service. So we, allow those who desire to serve in our armed forces easier access; you know the Foreign Legion model. There’s another target.
Meanwhile, make the Federal H1B system easy to use, rapid, and with extreme punishment for misuse. Another idea: create a pay-based merit system where you can buy your way into America. Why not? Rich guys are OK for business, create jobs. Lastly, create a targeted green card system where, at the Federal level, we can specify national talents and merits in an opportunistic fashion like all the top scientists in Russia.
Still waiting for you to answer those questions. I answered yours.
And now for something completely different: I noted that some have the attitude of "why are these people coming here, why don't they just stay home." So I looked.
While I don’t say it’s our fault, I think it’s pretty clear that our hands are not squeaky clean when it comes to our current immigration crisis now stemming from Central America.
Honduras is one of the most dangerous places on Earth basically run by rival gangs. I was struck by the picture of Wendy’s with three guys with shotguns at the door to protect patrons. What struck me wasn't the guns, it was that Wendy's is doing business there :>) It’s a gruesome place where murder, rape and worse is just an initiation rites for minors joining the gang. Sometimes they just gang rape the inductee.
Someone noted that “these people” should just say home, fix their own country or we should just take over Mexico/Central America. Fact is, we already took over Honduras, that’s the problem.
In late 1800’s, writer O’Henry coined the term Banana Republics as defining a place where American fruit corporations run the country, install all sorts of puppet dictators, and then joined with an elite class to control the peasant workers through a reign of terror. Lobbying Congress, these fruit corporations even got the US to help them via boots on the ground or clandestine activities to control the country.
After mucking about on one side or another, in 1909, we transferred massive Honduran debt to NY bankers and then the US controlled much of the country’s infrastructure and revenues. Get it? Jump ahead many puppet regimes to the 1980’s and you get Ollie North, Contras, Nicaragua, CIA-backed murder campaigns, and even boots on the ground. Good movies, right?
Meanwhile we are aghast at MS-13 sneaking in to kill us all. MS-13 originated in Los Angeles in the 1980’s. Initially they protected Salvadorian immigrants, many of who were driven from their native lands over the violence created often through our meddling in the Banana Republics. Hondurans joined as well. After deportation of gang members back to their home country, the pipeline link from Central America was firmly established. The 18th Street gang, or La 18, has a similar heritage, but initially made up of Mexican immigrants.
Add in the unintended consequence of US South American drug interdictions and now Honduras, without US drug interdiction, is the major hub enroute from South America to the US. It's like squeezing the jello tube. We interdict in South America and they move to Central America making life, on top of the gangs, totally impossible. So, if you can, you leave.
Two essays from SD and not a single touch on the numbers as requested....just as I suspected.
SD is just like the liberals who come on Tucker Carlson's show and don't answer his questions. LOL...
Well SD, they are the same question asked two different ways. Someone in a foreign country, who wants to live in America and - not through any official U.S. channels -enters our country with no plans on leaving would be doing so 'illegally'.
And the answer to the question, I agree with you, is 'No'. It is absolutely and obviously 'No'. I think JR answered the way he did because the MSM & the left has done quite an awesome job of making people feel guilty for things they shouldn't feel guilty about and that's a damn shame.
Sounds like you and I are on the same side SD. I'm all for a Visa program, granting asylum and provisions for migrant workers and for a certain amount of legal immigrants that don't fall into those previous categories every year. This is about 1.5 million new people a year according to factcheck.org. Pretty cool right?
What I'm against - and it sounds like you agree with me on this - are the 350,000 or so people sneaking into America every year, outside of established channels. Or people overstaying their Visas. Those people should be deported immediately, if apprehended, or turned away at the border. Right?
Why would I research your claim? You offering pay?
I told you my conclusion and asked you to prove elsewise.
I tlold you why presenting yourself at a port of entry and claiming asylum shoukd not be illegal according to the 1967 Accord that Trump ignores.
You came up with affirmative and defensive, well, actually Skippy did and you copied it. And then you conflated that to illegal and legal.
And your data does not cover the current crisis of the 3,000 kis who felll into Trump’s zero tolerance mandatory family separation without reunifcation policy which was never the law, but was Trump’s Policy that YOU called law even after Trump rescinded the Policy via EO
I honestly don’t know what you want until you come up with some relevant data.
The data provided was plenty relevant, say whatever you need to to attempt to dismiss it....I would expect nothing less from you.
Scottso; It depends. As I noted, e-verify should virtually end any undocumented worker issues going forward. If alphabet soup allowed to share, fake id’s will fade too.
If someone has been here for awihile, are gainfully emoloed, are virtual citizens, we’re at full employment so they aren’t taking JRs job, I think we can do better than deporting. After all, who would rent at Auntiel’s if we made all the undocumented leave. So, DACA, path to citizenship —- I can support that.
Looks like eveyone who wants one has a job. Gee, appears they never were taking our jobs after all. Go figure. Gee, just not sure how everyone here missed that....Now if we could only convince Darrin, Skippy, Jr, and JIT that its really just not practicing family values to rip kids from parents and lock them up in tent city in 100+ degrees, we be happy.
SD wants "relevant data."
Well then, it doesn't seem to much to ask of people coming here for requested asylum to provide "relevant data" that they are in fact in danger in their native land. And/Or that they are in fact the parents/guardians of the children in their care. Gotta' "prove it", right SD? That's one of your favorite sayings, "prove it."
Thus I have noted vetting, improving vetting, and support immediate return of those who don’t pass. Still no reason to rip babies from Mother’s arms. That’s rarely OK and something most people, except some conservatives here, do not support. Wrong side of history on that one. It will never turn out positive.
"I tlold you why presenting yourself at a port of entry and claiming asylum shoukd not be illegal according to the 1967 Accord that Trump ignores. "
despite everything above your still going with the illegal to claim asylum
lets review:
Migrants appear at a port of entry
Migrants have no documents or for whatever reason are "Inadmissable"
Customs and Border Protection officers take asylum seekers to a processing area for said “inadmissibles,”
Migrants ask for defensive asylum to stop the removal.
they have a credible fear interview and the process starts.
they are detained during this process
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/immigration/sd-me-asylum-detention-20170120-story.html
this pre existed Trump.
if they sneak in and get caught - they are catching charges. They can make an affirmative application for asylum
heres the process and form
https://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/refugees-asylum/asylum/affirmative-asylum-process
what is not clear about that.
in neither case is it in anyway illegal.
"...rip babies from Mother’s arms."
OK,
#1- they aren't doing that. You DID know Trump signed the EO, right?
#2- ever hear of human trafficking? It might be a mall minority of children being brought here by people other than their parents, but it HAS happened, therefore is likely happenING.
#3- wrong side of history, huh? That means the LAW is on the wrong side of history. (and it wouldn't be the first time). CHANGE IT. But trying to continually beat Trump over the head with a law he did not right, did not sign, and signed an EO to countermand (which will no doubt end up in court eventually) is pure folly. Everyone sees what your side is trying to do, and it's going to fall flat on it's face just as "russia collusion" did, the "p&*sy" remark, more gun control, Melania's jacket, this RIDICULOUS "abolish ICE" movement.... it's quite funny, really. I mean, I know you guys are frustrated, I know you got nothing valid, you're just complaining, and that's your right. But to pretend your side is holding some kind of moral high ground is ludicrous. Why do you think the #WalkAway movement has started? Even Democrats (and moderates who sometime vote democrat) have had enough of the lunacy.
If you want to talk about who's on the "wrong side of history", we need to be talking about Schumer, Waters, Warren, and Pelosi. They are punching holes into the hull as fast as they can. The democrat parties true colors are flying high and proud for all to see.... and it ain't working. Better reign in some of those extremist nutjobs or it's going to be awhile before you are able to rebuild....
SD, so is what YOU really believe that if you make it here, by any means necessary, you can stay?
Or are you just the moderator with the appointed duty of dragging these threads out ad infinitum to increase Google rankings?
@SD "and lock them up in tent city in 100+ degrees, we be happy."
SD in all seriousness, is your memory really gotten that bad or do you always completely dismiss factual info and lie through your teeth to try to grab emotion? You sound like a fake new reporter.
We already proved these tents are air conditioned (actually have been over this 3 or 4 times now).....yet your poetic tries at grabbing emotion continues...you lie through your teeth time and time again just to try to make people believe you.....you are spiraling out of control!
On top of that, factual numbers from the best source available were posted, numbers you specifically requested...NOPE dismissed by you for whatever means you could pull from your butt.
Time and time again you try to make it seem these people are walking into a legal boarder crossing and claiming asylum.....numerous people have posted multiple evidence that these people being "locked up" are people who are trying to skip out on the legal boarder entry points (ILLEGAL), or people who put their children in danger.....but all this factual evidence (that has been stated 5-6 times now) has been dismissed by you.....
You are really up in the clouds of lal la land lately hu? And common sense says, that until you come back to reality and actually listen to the factual evidence you are being presented it is a utter waste of time to even have a discussion with you.
Well, isn't this interesting.....
"Mexican President-elect Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador is planning to create a specialized border force to combat illegal immigration across Mexico’s borders, according to his hand-picked security chief.
The new force is aimed at stanching the flow of illegal immigrants and contraband from Central America and will also be deployed to Mexico’s northern border, Alfonso Durazo said, according to Bloomberg. It is part of Lopez Obrador’s broader strategy against regional violence, corruption and poverty.
“We’re going to create a border police force that will be highly specialized,” Durazo, who is set to become Mexico’s public security minister when Lopez Obrador takes office in December, told Bloomberg in an interview."
This, from the guy who says his administration is about "hugs, not bullets." What a dichotomy...
SD, so is what YOU really believe that if you make it here, by any means necessary, you can stay?
Or are you just the moderator with the appointed duty of dragging these threads out ad infinitum to increase Google rankings?
Scottso, you asked a question, demanded an answer, didn’t like it, asked another question, I answered and you dumped on me: “Or are you just the moderator with the appointed duty of dragging these threads out ad infinitum to increase Google rankings?”
And no, what you wrote is not what I believe or wrote. I said “If someone has been here for awihile, are gainfully emoloed, are virtual citizens, we’re at full employment so they aren’t taking JRs job, I think we can do better than deporting. After all, who would rent at Auntiel’s if we made all the undocumented leave. So, DACA, path to citizenship —- I can support that.”
That’s very different from what you snarky-surmised.
SD these people don't pay taxes. They’re here benefitting from things the rest of us pay taxes for to maintain. They’re kids cost tax payers around $20K a year to go to public school. Illegal immigrants as a whole cost over $100 billion a year. And the fact that 3,000 kids are being held in a 3 month period is testament to the fact that they come here in droves. We can’t sustain that. Eventually there will be an economic collapse. May not happen in our lifetimes, but could happen to our children and their children. How hard is it to stop at a US consulate or embassy along the way on their journey and apply for asylum?! No, they’re trying to cross the border illegally and only when they get caught do they use the asylum card. Look at what’s happening in our own town. 3 small children left in a disgusting apartment on main street while their illegal parents are out doing who knows what… I bet you could find more situations like that in our town if the authorities dug deeper. It’s time for the gutter trash Pelosi, Schumer, Waters, etc to be voted out or retire. As long as those old cronies with their senile rhetoric are around, both parties won’t work together.
"I think we can do better than deporting. "
You're right- we can keep them from entering in the first place, JUST LIKE MEXICO.
Skippy, I do understand what you are saying. My question is: of the families facing zero tolerance mandatory separation with incarceration without reunification now replaced by zero tolerance family incarceration for indeterminate time, how many entered illegally (across the border) and how many legally at a port of entry. You now have further muddied the waters by claiming: “Migrants appear at a port of entry. Migrants have no documents or for whatever reason are "Inadmissible"” seemingly indicates that’s what you think always happens. In all of this, my point is we don’t know what is happening much less how often it happens.
We do know that illegal crossers claiming asylum, whether fully documented or not, are now immediately put into the federal court system where no facilities for minors or families exist forcing the separation. As to what is happening after the EO, no one knows.
For legal asylum seekers at a port of entry, my understanding is that families, with documentation, were being separated and incarcerated as well.
Of the 2,000 separated kids, under this new warp-speed rescinded POLICY, we don’t know how many illegal, legal, documented, not documented, whatever. We do know that after the POLICY was modified to end the mandatory separation, that now there are magically 3,000 kids meaning we can question the count too.
You have not provided any proof to counter that except data from BEFORE Trump’s policy took effect.
“Court records and individual cases discovered by The Texas Tribune indicate that a number of asylum seekers who came to international bridges in Texas and California were separated from their children anyway” or “were not able to cross the bridge at all after encountering armed Customs and Border Protection agents on the bridge”
Much posting but no answer to the question so I contend all 2,000 are legal crossers with documentation and ask you to provide data to prove that wrong. The crisis is 2018, and since Trump/Sessions changed the POLICY to zero tolerance, mandatory incarceration, your numbers from previous administrations do not apply.
“But the Hope Border Institute has documented cases of family separation at ports of entry that go back as far as December 2016 — just after Trump’s election.”
“U.S. District Judge Dana Sabraw criticized the practice in a recent ruling on that lawsuit. “The parent has committed no crime,” He pointed out, adding, “Ms. L. is an example of this family separation practice expanding beyond its lawful reach, and she is not alone.” He went on to order the government to reunite separated families in the coming weeks.”
“It’s not clear why these separations are happening, since none of the parents appear to have been prosecuted for entering the U.S. illegally.”
https://www.texastribune.org/2018/07/05/migrants-seeking-asylum-legally-ports-entry-turned-away-separated-fami/
My point Skippy is that we really don’t know. Your numbers don’t apply to the new POLICY; I certainly have cases of legal asylum seekers being family separated, incarcerated, etc.
Beyond the human tragedy, what surprises me is that you are joyfully willing to spend all this taxpayer money for such an abominable, yet unnecessary, process of separation, incarceration, when a simple court date and ankle bracelet gives a 99% chance of court appearance. But this does make good TV and perhaps that’s the real point.
METS: can you source that before I refute the obvious inaccuracies?
My question, if there are 2000-3000 children separated from their parents(mothers mostly) why haven't the parents come forward to claim them? If they are not being held and are awaiting a decision regarding their asylum then they should be able to do so. You do know many of these children have been sent different parts of the country with 300-600 that were sent to NYC.
What do I need to source SD? Look up the cost to school a child. You think there aren't illegal kids using the school system? You know a system we all get taxed for and these people don't. You live in a bubble dude...
“seemingly indicates that’s what you think always happens. In all of this, my point is we don’t know what is happening much less how often it happens.”
Wether or not they’re documented - they don’t have the appropriate visas to be admissible. If they do have valid ID the process of identifying them is assuredly shorter.
The policies I posted were before trump - that was the point. He didn’t make this up.
The change in the policy is that now instead of catch and release - folks face federal charges - as they should. There needs to be a strong incentive to sneaking into the US.
The bottom line here is that every one of these migrants OPTED in to this process. They could remain with their families in Mexico.
"What do I need to source SD? Look up the cost to school a child...…..You live in a bubble dude..."
All righty then and thanks for the nice talk. You type to your mamma with those fingers?
Your unsourced call: "They’re kids cost tax payers around $20K a year to go to public school"
The real world: "Nationally, the most recent data indicates $11,762 is spent on public education per student. (2016) http://www.governing.com/gov-data/education-data/state-education-spending-per-pupil-data.html
I'd say you nailed that with your usual precision. Nice double down on danger, stranger. Hopefully a teachable moment.
But wait, there's more......
Given 5.5M immigrant children (PEW Research), your yuge miss of $8K per student (Mets), that's $44B off your unsourced total cost of $100B that you say, unsourced, we spend on illegal alien children. Hey, what's a 44% Met's miss amongst friends. I am your friend, aren't I? Your bubble dude?
Now my logic may be fractured there, but since you did not source, I just have to go by the numbers you presented. It's your spin after all.
As you obviously know, in NJ, where we live, school's are mostly funded by Property Tax, like 5% Federal thank you Chris. FAIRUS says $1.85B spent on aliens in NJ so now your $100B must be $54B or a 46% miss. Wonder how many other states FAIRUS screwed the pooch on education spending on aliens? I mean.....unless you can tell me how illegal aliens skip out on paying property tax that is. Democratic rental agents looking for potential voters....Illegals buying property with fake ID and then skip paying property tax. Don't think our township tax collector is missing that one.
So besides batting 100% error in the first few things I looked at, I do give you credit for doubling down on deceit. Too bad you couldn't look into the errors you were publishing. Or what we call doing the don. I will pass on the other errors.....there's a space limitation :>)
Skippy, think about my conclusions: “seemingly indicates that’s what you think always happens. In all of this, my point is we don’t know what is happening much less how often it happens.”
skippy: "Wether or not they’re documented - they don’t have the appropriate visas to be admissible. If they do have valid ID the process of identifying them is assuredly shorter." You don't know the numbers here and the old ones dont' count against a new process. FYI --- how hard is it to get a VISA to leave a war zone? Honduras killing fields? Just wondering.
skip says: "The policies I posted were before trump - that was the point. He didn’t make this up." Trump/Sessions changed the process in a fundamental fashion. They did make this up. Not with law, not with EO (until he rescinded perfection with the new perfection after 3,000 kids got separated under the rescinded policy), but they did this via a phone call, a memo, etc.
How can you not see that a new policy is in effect? Even FOX sees it: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/06/19/what-trumps-zero-tolerance-immigration-policy-means-for-children-separated-from-families-at-border.html
skip says: "The change in the policy is that now instead of catch and release - folks face federal charges - as they should. There needs to be a strong incentive to sneaking into the US." Again, we are talking asylum, 1967 Protocol, 1951 agreement, ---- claiming asylum is NOT sneaking.
"The bottom line here is that every one of these migrants OPTED in to this process. They could remain with their families in Mexico." Oh Skippy. Get with the times. It's mostly Central America at this time and for you to say they should stay in Honduras is just damned uncompassionate and frankly, downright cruel. Like young boys being gangraped for forced gang initiation. I can't even print what happens to the girls here.
What's next --- return the Syrians? Forget the Afghani? Make sure the Sudanese get home quick?
I just love the anecdote about separation taking place in the US under the guise of getting showers. Haven't heard that one in awhile....:>(
Keep supporting a POLICY of cruelty. Wrong side of history and just not going to have a good ending. 3,000 kids, I guess you can say still missing at this point. DHHS Secretary "It's important to remember that information from children can at times be unreliable," Azar said, "It's important to remember that information from children can at times be unreliable." OMG.....
"DHS secretary also said some children who are part of the nearly 3,000 may not qualify for reunification because they became separated from their parents during their journey.". OMG again...… Well, it's their fault, right Skippy? So why try...…
"Azar also said that the traditional method of verifying parental claims over a child, through documents like a birth certificate, will take too long. So the agency will be conducting DNA tests by taking a cheek swab of every child before matching him or her with a parent." Do you feel a giant "we don't know wtf we are doing" in all this?
Do we normally DNA test for a misdemeanor?
@ SD "Much posting but no answer to the question so I contend all 2,000 are legal crossers with documentation and ask you to provide data to prove that wrong."
Wait....WHAT??? LOLOLOLOL
The whole I don't have it directly in front of my face, and I refuse to look it up myself.... Soooo I am just going to make something up and tell everyone it is true coming from Mr. Google is astonishing!
@ SD "In all of this, my point is we don’t know what is happening much less how often it happens."
If that is so true, how can you continually stake your claim? I am sure the boarder patrol knows exactly what is going on.
On any given day, there are nearly 438,000 children in foster care in the United States.
In 2016, over 687,000 children spent time in U.S. foster care.
And instead of being safely reunified with their families — or moved quickly into adoptive homes — many will languish for years in foster homes or institutions.
http://www.childrensrights.org/newsroom/fact-sheets/foster-care/
"Much posting but no answer to the question so I contend all 2,000 are legal crossers with documentation and ask you to provide data to prove that wrong."
From:
https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/11/politics/trump-border-immigration-charts/index.html
It looks like the legal crossings peaked at ~30% in 2016/2017 and are now dropping below 20% for 2018. So that means ~80% are crossing illegally.
Many of those that cross at a legal port are still there without documentation.
Didn't even have to "Google" it... it was right there on CNN's front page.
https://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/education/spending-per-student-inching-toward-in-n-j/article_1ca4d6e6-fd0b-11e5-8202-6f4fa3e1b1b9.html
SD man you are just the king of spin… In NJ the cost per student is around $20K. Could it be less in other states… Of course. And the $100 billion I mentioned isn’t just schooling. It’s the total benefits paid out to have illegals in this country.
https://www.fairus.org/issue/publications-resources/fiscal-burden-illegal-immigration-united-states-taxpayers
So... there you go... here are sources... Have a nice day.
This asylum crap is BS. These people for the most part are trying to sneak in, get caught, and then say they want asylum. Wake up...
"Didn't even have to "Google" it... it was right there on CNN's front page."
BOOM.
"I am sure the boarder patrol knows exactly what is going on." Coffee spew...
Yeah, right. Way to support Trump during the government blackout of information. No news better than fake news.
My take: 3,000 kids and we still don't know soot from Shinola. We are mushrooms, keep us in the dark and feed us...….manure.
Darrin, that's an amazing belief given the anecdotes coming out of this debacle. Balanced against the constant and voluminous lies coming out of the administration, at what point do you say: enough? Do you still support this guy and what he is doing? Is he your role model?
Because Barrack Obama is a role model for me. Perhaps not a perfect catch of the day, but much better than this day-old fish who knows nothing about American history, a multiple offender draft dodger, daddy's golden spoon boy, huckster who rips off customers, employees, and investors with equal favors. Anyone who says this is the same as Obama, just mirror image, can't assess the metrics.
If government knew what was going on, then why did the boss issue an EO just days after the POLICY change. Heck, why did he even issue the EO when he could have just made a telephone call, a tweet, a memo... Unless an inept, inexperienced, corrupt government, why did he issue a travel ban to just have it rescinded so many times. Why did Scaramangler leave within hours of arriving at his government job? Why have there been so many security failures emanating from the Goldhouse? Remember how easy it would be to replace ObamaCare, build a wall, --- yeah, they know what they are doing and what's going on. It was the yugest inauguration ever. So yuge, we lost up to $50M of donations and just can't find it. Trump losing more money... https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/01/18/one-year-after-trumps-inauguration-no-one-say-how-they-spent-extra-money/1043804001/
Hey, it's only been 1.5 years; these things take time :>) Like releasing taxes.
Over 20 indictments, including Russians, numerous guilty pleas, hundreds of criminal charges, a couple in jail ---- yeah, these guys know what's going on. They're Fly-nn for the doors due to Stormy weather, better Man-a-fort. It's Cohen to be time to be Russian out of here. Revolving door of "in-the-know" "experts" leaving --- I guess they know what's going on. Highest turnover of any administration ever.
We know what's going on, we only hire the best. Like 23 indicted on over 100 criminal charges, a bunch of guilty pleas and a couple in jail. All experts who know what's going on all right. Probably just being audited just like ALL of Trump's taxes. . Just click your heels, say MAGA three times and it will all be all right......they know what's going on.
If they did know what was going on at the border, why did they have to issue the EO within days of implementing this new POLICY of …….oh, you know what I mean.
Darrin --- is this the first time you dared to say that the Federal Government knows exactly what is going on? Thanks. Good chuckle.
Mets says: "SD man you are just the king of spin… In NJ the cost per student is around $20K. Could it be less in other states… Of course. And the $100 billion I mentioned isn’t just schooling. It’s the total benefits paid out to have illegals in this country."
Thanks for the accolade. Let me point out that you said:
"They’re kids cost tax payers around $20K a year to go to public school. Illegal immigrants as a whole cost over $100 billion a year." Was I supposed to surmise that the first fact dealt only with NJ and the second one was a national number?
Perhaps if you actually linked or sourced something, you could alleviate these simple mistakes and errors. Based on your original post, mine was accurate. I can't divine what you mean otherwise given all the errors of fact.
It's hard enough with 5:1 odds to keep up, much less with frequent errors such as Mets'
Asylum seeking for abusive husband? Fleeing gangs, we have them here. I wish they would clean up their own country instead of running. I am not heartless but everyone thinks our "pocket books" are unlimited. We have American homeless sleeping on sidewalks. We have American veterans who need our help. If you are looking for people to help, look around our own country. We have American kids who need the basic necessities. We are always there for natural disasters that happen in other countries. We haven't even finished with Puerto Rico yet, and they are Americans.
justwondering In case you're justwondering, Honduras history is above. We are not exactly squeaky clean in all of this. You can google Central America Human Rights violations so you don't make the mistake of equating with things familiar in our culture. Not the same at all.
JR said “On any given day…” Good point JR. Let's remove some of your spins of omission.
"Key Findings
On September 30, 2016, there were an estimated 437,465 children in foster care (exhibit 1).
On September 30, 2016, more than a quarter (32 percent) were in relative homes, and nearly half (45 percent) were in nonrelative foster family homes (exhibit 2).
On September 30, 2016, about half (55 percent) had a case goal of reunification with their parents or primary caretakers (exhibit 3).
About half (51 percent) of the children who left foster care in FY 2016 were discharged to be reunited with their parents or primary caretakers (exhibit 4).
Close to half of the children (45 percent) who left foster care in FY 2016 were in care for less than 1 year"
Average time is around two years which is on an improvement trend even in the face of massive increases under Trump’s reign. In 2016, the number of kids exiting the system equaled about 90% of the kids entering the system. They do not need AC-tent cities either. Since the reign of Trump, the number of kids entering the system is rising from 2105 to 2016 by about 15%. Yet the number of kids held in 2016, although rising under Trump, is still less than in 2006, under G. Bush. https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubPDFs/foster.pdf
Average time held is 19 months, an improving trend, with most kids returned in about a year.
Yes, JR, there are lots of kids in foster care. And we know pretty well what is happening, where they are, who they belong to, what the trends are, and what the chances of reunification with family members is. Can you say that for the border kids? I mean they said 2,000, no 3,000, hey, it’s hard to count ---- they actually said that……
51% of exits are reunification, 7% are with other family members, 10% with guardian, 23% adopted, 8% emancipation. So far, Trump has exited so few kids, we can't have a stat if they even released information. https://www.acf.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/cb/afcarsreport24.pdf
Can you say that with these refugee kids? Recently it was announced that DNA tests would be needed. One of the reasons is that one Govt. organization took the paperwork, but another Govt. organization holds the human and, apparently, human and documentation therefore cannot be put back together again.
Parents have been deported without their children; already some of these parents are lost.
Like many Trump POLICIES and programs, this one is half-cocked and ill conceived. There is no upside here and only downside.
But a great point JR, there's a lot of kids without parents out there. Good time to overturn Roe v. Wade......:<(
"Yes, JR, there are lots of kids in foster care. ...Can you say that for the border kids? I mean they said 2,000, no 3,000, "
437,465 vs. 2,000-3,000... hate to do this to you (not really) but, FALSE EQUIVALENCY. ;)
"But a great point JR, there's a lot of kids without parents out there. Good time to overturn Roe v. Wade......:<( "
Don't worry, SD....
You are right JR. With out-of-context cut n pastes, you can certainly spin the narrative.
You say, I said:""Yes, JR, there are lots of kids in foster care. ...Can you say that for the border kids? I mean they said 2,000, no 3,000, " I said: "Yes, JR, there are lots of kids in foster care. And we know pretty well what is happening, where they are, who they belong to, what the trends are, and what the chances of reunification with family members is. Can you say that for the border kids? I mean they said 2,000, no 3,000, hey, it’s hard to count ---- they actually said that……"
I will let others judge, but I say these mean different things. That's spin.
Again you are right to say 437,465 versus 2,000-3,000 is a false equivalence given all other things being relatively equal. They are not and you know that.
One is a self-imposed government sanctioned crisis, the other is unwanted kids in America, not a government sanction crisis (unit we overturn Roe v Wade that is). One is 100% mandatory forced separation followed by incarceration, the other is unwanted kids in America with low numbers of incarcerated parents.. One has a known-interval for reunification, known-recipients, known reunification plans, the other is clueless to all of that or any plan. One will make best effort, the other makes little effort. One returns about the same number of kids it receives every year; the other has yet to return any kids, really. Most of the returns are volunteers bonding and bailing parents out, then doing the impossible research to find the kids, and then providing transport for parents-without-documentation, because the government is still holding it ---- somewhere, who knows where.
Most important, one reports out against all sorts of metrics, the other reports out spin in some spastic on/off blackout mode replete with fabrications and falsehoods.
Most US kids enter foster care "through no fault of their own, because they have been abused, neglected, or abandoned and are unable to continue living safely with their families." (AdoptUSKids) Parental incarceration is about 8% of the kids.
100% of these 3,000 kids are taken away because of parental incarceration. Some of them have legally crossed, have appropriate documentation, and have presented themselves at a US port of entry. Many of these kids face incarceration-like or worse conditions, not foster care upon mandatory separation. There is a difference.
But I agree, you have pointed out a real suck problem in America. We have a lot of unwanted kids, for whatever reason. You have unveiled something that breaks my heart. I mean half a million kids seems like a big number to me. It's .13% of our entire population and almost 1% of our kid population. That's too many unwanted kids. Those right-to-lifers are just not picking up the slack for unwanted kids. Let's overturn Roe v. Wade, oh yeah, that will help MAGA.
Thanks and I will have to figure out how to jigger my charity giving to help reduce this suck in America.
But this Trump-manufactured crisis does not have a good ending. There is no upside.
Total ignorance of Mark's link and stats.....lolololol
This is too funny!
@SD "Because Barrack Obama is a role model for me" And you want to talk about coffee spewing! HA! Glad to see your role model is someone who did absolutely nothing to help america and added the most debt out of any president. He was a total waste of 8 years.
You keep harping on the same Trump details...over and over, and over.....trying to get someone to care.....news flash....obviously nobody cares! What's doom and gloom to you...holy crap read the press news....nobody else CARES! We have heard this stuff from you almost ever post....the "How could you support" line has been so over used....GET OVER IT! Hilary LOST!
In new news....401k's are reaching a all time high (I have had the highest rate of return ever since Trump has been in office)
You know its sad to say, but I would almost rather a democrat president for the SINGLE reason of not having to constantly listen to the liberals bitch, moan, and complain....ALL the freaking time....It's like a broken record and it's no different here then it is on CNN...bunch of complainers crying crying crying.....liberal tears.
SD here's the difference between American kids and border jumper kids... The American kids have documentation. They know the kids names, social security numbers, etc. Of course it's going to take longer to reunite illegal kids with their parents. But again that's the parents fault. They try to cross illegally and get caught and this is what happens. What do you think would happen if you tried to walk across the Canadian border illegally with your kids? Guess what, you'd probably get thrown in jail and your kids put in a home until things are sorted out.
"Don't worry, SD...." sh...…...t JR, I'm just waiting for them to make contraceptives illegal. Then we can really pump the unwanted out, just like brood sows as God intended.
Or Trump's stated plan to punish folks for seeking remedy. Oh yeah baby, we come a long ways now.
"1873 The Comstock Act passed in the United States prohibiting advertisements, information, and distribution of birth control and allowing the postal service to confiscate birth control sold through the mail."
This remained on the books until 1938. Similar laws are already on the books in many states, just overshadowed by Federal Law. So, if Federal Law is revoked, the State Laws immediately come front n center.
"1916 Margaret Sanger opens first birth control clinic in the United States. The next year she was deemed guilty of maintaining a public nuisance and sentenced to jail for 30 days."
"1965 The Supreme Court (in Griswold v. Connecticut) gave married couples the right to use birth control, ruling that it was protected in the Constitution as a right to privacy. However, millions of unmarried women in 26 states were still denied birth control."
OK, that's fricking 1965...….
"1972 The Supreme Court (in Baird v. Eisenstadt) legalized birth control for all citizens of this country, irrespective of marital status."
Good timing for us 70's overindulgence types...…
"2013 After protracted regulatory and legal battles, one brand of emergency contraceptive pill (Plan B One-Step) becomes available without a prescription on drug store shelves." The anti contraceptive beat goes on. I mean, day after is still too late?
So, contraceptives are still being fought, for political as well as spiritual reasons. And they have been illegal before. Can't happen? First, Roe v Wade, then...….who knows..... maybe even make snip, snip you're safe go away. Given the fight over the Day After, one must ask, after all, when does it all start --- day after, with a wink of the eye, or even in the plumbing? After all, Trump did tell us he would fix our infrastructure...….
So, young men and women, the day after Roe V. Wade goes down, go out and buy a life- time supply so you can wait it out until we turn this SCOTUS. For Jr, you wont' need a cart, just the little basket will do :>)
https://www.ourbodiesourselves.org/health-info/a-brief-history-of-birth-control/
"What do you think would happen if you tried to walk across the Canadian border illegally with your kids?"
Let's keep it consistent... walk into Mexico, Honduras, or Guatemala illegally and see what happens. Air conditioned tents would likely be the least of your worries.
Mets said "SD here's the difference between American kids and border jumper kids... The American kids have documentation. They know the kids names, social security numbers, etc." So, we don't need to follow the 1967 Protocol calling for "no penalty" for refugees? And what makes you think they are all American kids? Suddenly undocumented workers never have unwanted kids? Damn, make those people citizens; they're more family oriented that the rest of us.....
The difference is that Americans do care about foster care kids. We work at it, we have a process, we monitor, measure, and correct.
Trump does not care about these asylum seekers, many who have legally presented themselves at a port of entry, with documentation. As for the illegal crossings, it's a frickin misdemeanor that we are remanding parents to the federal incarceration system forcing child separation placing the kid in DHHS. That's a choice, a POLICY. You could just as easily fit em with an ankle bracelet and get a 99% return to court. That's a choice too. Just as safe and a hell of a lot less expensive that what you are spending here.
The kids are then placed in federal facilities or state facilities outsourced by the Fed. Yeah, they know where they all are. That's why they gave up on finding the paperwork they took and, instead, will DNA test everyone......
" Of course it's going to take longer to reunite illegal kids with their parents. But again that's the parents fault." I'm sorry, but when the first government organization takes the papers, a second organization takes the parents, and a third organization takes the kids --- somehow this is the one time you, and others here, feel government works? efficient? knows what they are doing?
They haven't really returned ANY kids, most of the returns have been funded and facilitated by savvy, experienced, volunteers, and Trump failed, I think, to meet the court deadline for returning those under 5. Plus a number of those CAN'T be returned because we deported the parents. Yeah, they know where they are....What was that plan --- the never, never land return policy?
"They try to cross illegally and get caught and this is what happens." NO -- this is what happens under the Trump/Sessions POLICY of zero tolerance family separation followed by incarceration deemed wrong by Trump as replaced by EO. But yet the kids remain. I think Trump failed on the Court order to return youngest kids but Tuesday. First they "rephrased it" as eligible kids. You know who was illegible? Kids with deported parents can't be returned. Why --- because the government is incompetent.
"What do you think would happen if you tried to walk across the Canadian border illegally with your kids? Guess what, you'd probably get thrown in jail and your kids put in a home until things are sorted out." It depends. But you are totally wrong.
"out-of-context cut n pastes, "
Nice try. I linked to the news articles. Nothing "out-of-context" about it. Just truth. You got "nuttin honey" ;)
Jr.
Unlike your unproven characterization of me, of "subterfuge," I actually showed you the out-of-context cut n paste, defined your spin, specified your spin, and put it in writing. Probably too long for you to get through :>) It had nothing to do with your links, just your off-base characterization of what I said by creatively changing the context via your editing.
You included zero links in that post...…...
If you want to discuss that passage fine.
If you want to continue staying out of context, that's your right. Free speech and all.
"So, young men and women, the day after Roe V. Wade goes down"
Yes, yes, it's the apocalypse.
If Roe V. Wade "goes down"... get real. It was a 7-2 decision. If you REALLY think Roe v Wade is in danger, I've obviously misunderestimated your intellect. The addition of Gorsuch and Kavanaugh (Gorsuch replacing Scalia, very similar... and Kavanaugh replacing Kennedy, who PICKED Kavanaugh himself) isn't going to change Roe v Wade. That's just standard fear mongering 101, to raise money for democrat re-election campaigns and keep up the great divide in this country that keeps the 2-party system in power.
"The addition of Gorsuch and Kavanaugh (Gorsuch replacing Scalia, very similar... and Kavanaugh replacing Kennedy, who PICKED Kavanaugh himself) isn't going to change Roe v Wade. That's just standard fear mongering 101, to raise money for democrat re-election campaigns and keep up the great divide in this country that keeps the 2-party system in power."
I agree completely... nothing has fundamentally changed with the Court makeup to this point. Now, should someone take Ginsberg's pulse and figure out that she actually died sometime during Obama's first term... then the libs would have cause to be concerned.
" Now, should someone take Ginsberg's pulse and figure out that she actually died sometime during Obama's first term... "
https://babylonbee.com/news/ruth-bader-ginsburg-encased-in-carbonite-until-next-court-session/
"I agree completely... nothing has fundamentally changed with the Court makeup to this point." Really?
Given this guy's positions, Roe v Wade overturn is certainly a possibility. And it's a Trump 2016 promise along with adding punishment for those who disobey. A campaign promise is a promise, according to Trump. MAGA.
Beyond that, you don't see his Ken Starr (my God, they dragged than name back)era and beyond papers on giving the President full control of special prosecutor? Of making a sitting President immune from investigation and prosecution?
You missed the part where he feels Congress (or he, if he gets a chance) to pass law precluding sitting Presidents for investigation, indictments, civil and criminal charges, and the like
I mean there's a paper trail.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/7/11/17551648/kavanaugh-mueller-trump-executive-power-legal
Heck with Roe v Wade, we know why the Don picked this guy. He's the one guy McConnell said --- any of the other three, please. And that's McConnell.
"told Trump and White House counsel Don McGahn that Brett Kavanaugh has generated a massive number of documents during his 12 years on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit and in other roles, which he fears Democrats could seize on to delay a confirmation vote." http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/395979-mcconnell-highlighted-scotus-picks-most-likely-to-be-confirmed-to-trump
Billions of pages of information to review. And you know we want his emails, tweets, and bathroom stall utterances too.
When Mueller bears down, this guy is Trump's best defense. "I agree completely... nothing has fundamentally changed with the Court makeup." Read more Iman, please.
Meanwhile, what happened to the Republican rule about not selecting Supreme Court Justices until after major US elections? The nominee ghost of Judge Neil Gorsuch thinks he got abused.
"You missed the part where he feels Congress (or he, if he gets a chance) to pass law precluding sitting Presidents for investigation, indictments, civil and criminal charges, and the like..."
I didn't miss anything. The fact that he thinks Congress should pass a law to that end is a demonstration of his belief that there isn't any Constitutional protection regarding same. That and the fact that he's a Constitution "as written" type of guy means there's no issue in my mind. If he were a "legislate from the bench" guy, then you could have an argument... only if you could demonstrate that four other justices would go along with him.
The guy is no doubt a hard working, brilliant, jurist.
If it walks like a duck....there is no doubt his feelings for Presidential immunity from investgations and prosecutions to the point of believing the President can hire/fire special prosecutors — an incredulous idea.
He is a Constitutionalist who often writes its the job of Congress not the courts to legislate
He’s a guy at the center of most of the highest poltically charged cases in Americas history.
He’s the guy who laid the foundation for impeaching a guy for lying about having sex with a girl.
He’s the guy who worked in a case thay got a conservative elected over some chads.
Not only did those decisions seem political, they decidely topped the scales in one direction.
Has he changed his mind over judicial activism over time. I think so, not that its a bad thing.
He’s about to get a job for life. After that, he can do anything he wants without recimination or remedy.
There is little doubt the Trump/Russia investigation will end in SCOTUS over Presidential powers and, legally, he can do what he wants.
I say if it walks like a duck, and all that stands in his way of getting what he thinks the nation deserves, full Presidential immunity from investigation and prosecution, and the only thing stopping his is that nagging little concept of judicial activism, why take that risk since you can be pretty sure it will come up.
Especially considering the outcomes of a number of landmark legal battles he has not only been involved in, but that were decided in what could be called a political outcome. And they all went conservative, politically speaking.
He is a brilliant jurist, sounds like a good guy, but at this point in time, for this President, IMO just not worth the risk —- based on the record. Perhaps after the midterms I would be more sanguine about it. The duck had walked, I say don’t let it talk at this time.
Hey, now that we’ve denuclearized North Korea, ended the Syrian/Iraq/Afghan wars, destroyed ISIS, locked up kids because its better for them than than being in Hell for having such patents, fixed NATO in just two days, will fix Brexit tommorrow, got a new Macys Day balloon, we are on our way to be fixed by Putin.
Better hurry, Corey Booker needs his cape back.
"There is little doubt the Trump/Russia investigation will end in SCOTUS over Presidential powers and, legally, he can do what he wants. "
Only in your mind of preconceived and pre-concluded fears.
FWIW, I agree with (life-long Democrat) Dershowitz on this one:
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc-news/watch/dershowitz-dems-dead-wrong-to-call-for-special-prosecutor-on-russia-886102083848
...and on Kavanaugh's opinion the president is immune from prosecution:
https://www.cnsnews.com/blog/michael-w-chapman/dershowitz-kavanaugh-dead-wrong-impeachment-he-should-read-constitution
My only complaint with the "investigations" at this point is, so much taxpayer money has been spent for NOTHING. Zip. Zero. Nada. There is NO real evidence of any "russian collusion", even after 18 months. It's nothing but a diversion and a tool the democrats are trying to use as an obstructive weapon at this point. If they had any REAL evidence, we would have seen it by now. Unless they are saving it for an "October surprise" (which I doubt, because they are so foaming-at-the-mouth rabid to get Trump out IMO they couldn't hold on to the info that long), this matter should be ended. Fishing expeditions are NOT the proper practice of law, and certainly should not be paid for with taxpayer funds.
“Fishing expeditions are NOT the proper practice of law, and certainly should not be paid for with taxpayer funds.“.....unless it’s going after HILLARY HILLARY HILLARY HILLARY HILLARY HILLARY HILLARY HILLARY HILLARY HILLARY HILLARY HILLARY HILLARY....That’s all that goes along the bottom of FOX’s screen, anyway.
Trump? It’s a “witch hunt”. Hillary? “Lock her up!” FOX? “Real news”. Almost every other media outlet in the country? “Fake news”.
I’m not comfortable with all these private, back room meetings that Trump is partaking in, during his dictator school visits. I wish he would stop alienating us from the rest of the world.
Aside from the Hillary investigation no longer costing taxpayers millions of dollars day after day, it DID uncover evidence of crimes (she DID have classified emails on unclassified devices, she and her staff DID smash government property with hammers, etc). Comey just torpedoed the ability for prosecutors to act upon it.
My friend, Bernie, told me Trump now wants Europe to match the United States' military spending. Currently we spend $700 billion on defense, more than the next 10 nations combined, and end up with 30 million uninsured and crumbling infrastructure.
Instead of demanding that Europe spend more on planes and guns, why don’t we join them in guaranteeing health care to all. Why don't we make public colleges and universities tuition-free and guarantee paid family leave to working people. We have got to say: enough is enough. We cannot continue the endless military spending while neglecting the needs of people throughout this country.
The way I see it, it’s a great way to protect the ultra wealthy (a military, they can’t individually afford), and keep people enslaved in minimum wage jobs. If all those benefits were readily available, there would be a mass exodus of workers that endure horrible conditions for crap pay.
We can’t keep giving the ultra wealthy tax breaks. Roll it back to the 50’s, a time when the more you made , the more taxes you paid ...period. A time when a barber was able to support a home, family, car, college, plus.
"My friend, Bernie, told me Trump now wants Europe to match the United States' military spending. Currently we spend $700 billion on defense, more than the next 10 nations combined"
Spend the same on a percentage basis, yes...
That doesn't mean every country will spend $700B. Just match the 3-4% GDP that the US spends. Most countries are still well below the 2% that they already AGREED to spend (see all the gray lines below the dotted 2% threshold?).
Of course those countries can afford free health care... we're paying for their defense budgets.
Heck, even Obama agrees:
https://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/obama-nato-pay-fair-share-231405
"Why don't we make public colleges and universities tuition-free"
At current tuition rates, that should only raise your tax level to about 75%. Why not, right?
If you want to be a socialist, that's fine. Admit it and run with it. But don't attempt to hold some moral high ground because you believe in "free stuff" for everyone, paid for with taxpayer money, taken by force.
the bottom line is this: your "vision" of what America should be will either have vast majority support (which is does not; Trump's unlikely election is proof of that)... and it does have to be VAST majority support, a simple majority won't change the country from a constitutionalist republic into a socialist utopia. You'll have to throw out the constitution and write new one.
Maybe Ginsberg could help you with that (if she can stay wake long enough):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1S14hQNNECk
I want Europe to form their own independent military alliance without America. That would solve all the problems. Germany or Japan can build ICBM within a few months. Why should America and Europe keep arguing about money? Who neeeds NATO more? Europe have the capability and money to form their own military, political alliance independent of America. They should set up one and wrap up american military bases and missiles in Europe and sent them home. That's it, that will solve the problem.
Yeah Yale, I agree. Let's give all our friends the bomb and ICBM technology like Trump's BFF Putin gave to NK forcing Trump to stop all "provocative" (Kim's words in Trump's mouth) military training in the region. And then we will need to support them less.
"If you want to be a socialist" Roll the tape Skippy :>)
JR believes “...on Kavanaugh's opinion the president is immune from prosecution (sic).?” His name is Jefferson, you know. He's a “...tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants” sort of guy…:>(
“My only complaint with the "investigations" at this point is, so much taxpayer money has been spent for NOTHING.” I get it. Why can’t we report out now, before the investigation is completed. How else can Don defend himself. I mean we outed Hillary right before the election while keeping the investigation of Don under wraps and that was OK, right? Those Democrats! Russia meddled, Don’s folks met with Russia lookin for stolen emails on Hillary, looking for backchannels around US security, Don asked them on TV to hack away, Putin won, Don won, Hillary lost. It’s the deep Democratic state after all. Even when JR’s team has the Presidency, the House, the Senate, the Democrats are still running the place!
Yeah, we’re that good!
The deep state Demographic investigation into Trump, led by Republicans, yeah, we're that good. If you count everything and all workers contributing whatever department they are in, cost $17M --- $20M if you listen to the Don like JR does. That’s less than the Republican’s spent on Bill Clinton at this point…. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2018/06/04/fact-checking-president-trumps-attacks-on-the-cost-of-muellers-investigation/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.213e95d96734
I’m frankly surprised that JR does not want to spend more:
- 50+ unsuccessful repeals of ObamaCare, what did that cost?
- 3,000 kids detained unnecessarily, what does that cost?
- After nine months in office, the Trump family racked up $14M in travel costs, just the golf carts cost over $100,000 a year.
- What did it cost to harden Maraloser, the evil tower and Bedminster (thanks for the jobs, btw).
No, JR does not care about the Tree of Liberty, he just wants the investigation to tip its hand early for his guy. JR does not care about costs, there’s waste abounding as Trump rips the taxpayer any way he can. Stroke of the pen for tax reform nets Trump family over $3B in inheritance tax removal for only the uber rich, like 1 out of 500 people, because, after all, Don's a people person. But JR wants to focus on the $17M…..
Benghazi took 28 months at a cost of $7M but remember, Mueller is counting everything, the Benghazi count did not.
Ken Starr probe lasted 4.5 years, did he report out early? It costs close to $60M in todays dollars and they did not count everything Mueller counts.
Clinton email investigation took a year, costs over $30M for no charges. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/investigating-clinton-many-millions-were-211500881.html
JR, welcome to Team Trump, watch out if you see a bus coming, it may be Trump's final message to you.
But wait, there's more. No, not Roy.....
JR, you say “It's nothing but a diversion and a tool the democrats are trying to use” for an investigation run by and staffed by Republicans. It’s a diversion that’s yielded, please excuse my accuracy, it keeps growing, I keep losing count :>)
Over 75 charges (actually I think Manafort is up to over 100 charges just by himself) filed against 19 people and three Russian companies including charges of:
alleged conspiracy against the US
bank frauds
tax violations
identity frauds
lying under oath
So far, we've (that's you and me) have nailed former White House adviser, we harpooned three former Trump campaign aides including the campaign chair, we indicted one Russian oligarch, 12 or so Kremlin lackeys, and 3 Russian companies,
So far, 5 defendants pleaded guilty, guilty, guilty including our national security adviser and a Trump campaign aide. Two guys are currently in jail, one is the former campaign chairman.
Yet JR concludes: “It's nothing but a diversion.” Better Man-a- fort, it Cohen to get Stormy…..
strangerdanger: I don't know why you didn't understand my sarcasm. If you read my earlier comment, what I implied is our country need NATO more than the Europeans or allies need it. Who made us global superpower? Without the European support, America would be at the 2nd level like China and Russia. European countries look up to American leadership,but the day they decide they have enough of it and form their own military alliance, that day is the day America becomes Russia or China. It's a matter of trust forged through brotherhood and trust. Trump voters rooting only money and cash without even thinking about the irreparable damage he us doing to the US-European relationship is stupidity at it's best. Either we decide we want money only and exist like Russia and China or want global leadership with military bases at allies's soil. Europe won't hesitate to form a military alliance without us. Countries like Germany and Japan which were completely destroyed during WW2 have rebuild their countries and today if we push them away for money and tell them to do whatever they want. They will build ICBM and other high advance military weapons within months because they already have the capability and money and they will do it to defend from Russia or China. That's the direction trump is pushing. I hate it.
The only thing Trump is pushing is for those European countries to pay up their share TheYale. According to his press conference yesterday he succeeded with that and those countries agreed to pay more. So I don't get where you think these countries are suddenly going to kick us out where we have bases. It isn't going to happen.
Metsman: What I said are facts! We need to appreciate our allies. It's not only about money to NATO, trump has insulted the Europeans many times- from their immigration policies to their internal politics! Europe is not american territories and trump has no right to say who should be British PM or British ambassador to US or how Europe should handle immigration. He is pushing the limits! Our bases in Europe are still there because they haven't kicked us out. If they decide they want separate military alliance, they will form it. Nobody can stop it. And you are so ignorant to say trump made them pay it and military bases still there. They still paid it because they know trump is temporary, american leadership is temporary, a president come and go. And they know trump is just a phase, it's the people to people relationship they trust. And trump is testing that limit, the relationship has been strained. Do you think the relationship was not strained by trump after he continuously attacked the Europeans? Relationship matters, that's the whole point I am talking about, ignorant people like you are still talking about money.
No you're ignorant. It's like spoiled children expecting their rich dad to pay for everything. That's not the way it works and I applaud Trump for calling them out on it. They need us more than we need them.
But people like you will bitch about Trump going golfing but are ok shelling out an unfair portion to NATO which is astronomically more.
Metsman: stupid distraction from an ignorant person. Nice try to distract with golfing though I never mentioned it. As I said Europe is not scared of trump nor America. They did it because they know trump is temporary and will go and they don't want to hurt the relationship. But how long will they take the heat is something time will tell. Europe is not 3rd world countries that Trump threatens and they obey. The day they kick out America, that they we will be isolated and be like China and Russia.
They're not paying what they are supposed to be what don't you get? Each country is supposed to devote 2% of their GDP. Some are not doing that. So Trump has every right to call them out on it. What are we supposed to bend over backwards and take it? We're not the worlds piggy bank.
TheYale, The EU is already is serious about forming their own EU army, all with the support of Merkel, Macron, and Juncker. I say good, and they need us in NATO far more than the other way around. I would be totally fine with us leaving no sarcasm. We should not be allies with Turkey, and Europe is hell bent on opening the doors for invasion from the middle east, and africa without a shot being fired. I would would form individual alliances with countries in the EU. Think of all the things we could do here at home with that money. Screw the globalist fascist EU..
Metsman: I told you it's not about the money! Trump made Europe paid, they paid. If they hadn't paid, America will not be bankrupt,please don't be overdramatic! They paid because they want to keep the relationship and they know president come and go. I said it again and again trump insulting and interfering European polictics and policies,be it there immigration or polical head of states is testing the limits of Europe's patience. I never said NATO money is testing the relationship but Trump's INSULT and INTERFERENCE in their policies and head of states is straining the relationship.
Oh and the London mayor allowing a balloon of Trump going around the city is ok. Gotcha... They can say or do whatever but if Trump says something, it's the end of the world. Sounds like the crybaby liberals here.
Metsman: try as much as you want to distract from my topic. London mayor allowed based on their constitution and their british law of freedom of speech on their land in Britain! Do you want them to obey trump in their own land? What are you hallucinating about?
Did londoners or British or French or complain to America when fringed neo Nazis raised Nazi flag on American soil? They don't because neo Nazis there also raise the same flag on European soil. They all do it in the name of freedom to protest! Like the trumpbabyblimp on Brit soils. It's their people, their land. You and me have no right to interfere in what they do in their home
"british law of freedom of speech" Lol tell that to Tommy Robinson who is in jail for "free speech"
"But people like you will bitch about Trump going golfing but are ok shelling out an unfair portion to NATO which is astronomically more."
I don't think you or Trump has any idea how NATO works. We don't "pay into NATO"; we simply spend a ridiculous percentage of our GDP on defense spending. That would occur irrespective of whether or not we were a member of NATO. Nobody in NATO is forcing the US to spend $700B a year being the world's policeman; it's the military-industrial complex that makes that happen.
Even without the US, the remainder of the European NATO members outspend Russia in defense spending by twelve to one. If they think that's enough, who are we to tell them otherwise?
I'm not distracting anything. The point is these rulers of other lands sling dirt too. We don't need these people. You seem to forget the US stayed out of the 2 WW's until later in the conflicts. We were worried about our own interests in those time periods. It's no different now. Like I said, we aren't the worlds piggy bank. We don't need to be spending unfair amounts of money on things like NATO, the Paris Accord, and some of these idiotic trade agreements which don't help us. Yes Presidents come and go, but that doesn't mean Europe can take advantage of us.
ianimal I think the President and others have a better grasp of where money goes than you do.
What you "think" is irrelevant. The fact remains that Trump is a moron with no clue.
If Germany spends 2 billion dollars more next year, do you think that means we will be able to spend $2B less? LOL, that's not the way it works There is no "NATO military" that is paid for out of a common fund. It's a ridiculous assertion.
It's their land,their people and their laws permit them to protest- fly trump baby in a diaper tweeting on his phone! Can trump or America do something about it? Nope! He could have not gone, he knew this was coming. LOL! By the way, the balloon looks good
Ianimal: you hit the nail with your points.
Metsman: you said nothing has changed since WW2,well, I think everything has changed many non-nuclear European countries have the capability and money to build nuclear weapons within months,if not a year. So, that changes everything. You ignorance is abundantly visible. We are not living in WW2 era. Look at rogue states like Iran and NK, if they didn't have ICBM or nuclear weapons,we would have invaded them long time ago. What's stopping us? Nukes!
So nukes in the hands of every European countries if they leave NATO is scary thing to imagine, but they will have no choice but to opt that with Russia on their borders.
Europe has never made America bankrupt, only american leaders have made America bankrupt. You cannot blame Europe for the failure and incompetence of our country. Just because trump said so? I called that stupid. We spend billions and trillions on acting like world's only cop policing the world around during the cold war and after WW2, that consumes money. Now, if we still want to flex muscle and rule the world as only the oldest democratic superpower, that's super pricey or we can keep quiet and act like China or Russia negotiating with everyone, who has no friends and no influence on anyone. That's a cheaper option without the European. Europe never force us to be world's only supercop,they couldn't and they didn't. We did that on our own
The yale,
"Look at rogue states like Iran and NK, if they didn't have ICBM or nuclear weapons,we would have invaded them long time ago. What's stopping us? Nukes!"
Really then why didn't we invade before they had them. Maybe all the heavy artillery lined up on the Korean border long before nukes was a deterrent. That alone could turn Seoul into a pile of rubble. Maybe the 30,000 + soldiers who were killed in the first Korean war was a deterrent. Maybe the thought of Iran attacking Israel and starting WW3 served as a deterrent.
"So nukes in the hands of every European countries if they leave NATO is scary thing to imagine, but they will have no choice but to opt that with Russia on their borders."
Never mind the fact the France and Great Britain have had nukes since the 60's. I think that alone would serve as a deterrent. You have such a shaky grasp of facts that make your condescending attitude laughable.
With all this fire power available in the world, it sort of makes, Revelation 8:7-10 plausible?
Exactly Denis. These geniuses seem to forget that there are plenty of weapons all these countries have that can lay waste to population centers. As if a nuke is the only thing that does that.
Illegal aliens have to pay thousands of dollars to cross our southern border. They need money for transportation, food, housing, and bribes to Mexican officials.
During that trip, they put themselves and their families into danger to be raped, assaulted, trafficked, enslaved, or killed.
It would cost less to get on a plane and travel to a port of entry. It would be safer too. So why aren't they doing it?
they are economic migrants using asylum defensively and don’t fit the definition of refugees.
Denis,
Funny, South Korean being destroyed if US invaded NK isn't what I implied?Your brain work very slow and not fully functional. NK drops a nuke in SK, half of south east Asia destroyed Immediately and Asia, Australia and NZ will have nuclear shower rain and wind. US and Russia and China were involved in Korean war.We did went to war in Korea but never won there and as soon as we left, they were into building nukes. That was lesson that China and Russia are not and never can be our friends.
Forget about France and Britain, I was talking about non-nuclear European countries bordering Russia!
Both you and metsman don't even read or have problem comprehending
Did Britain or France or US do something when Russia took over Crimea? Nothing. Since Putin already declared that Russians in post-soviet countries can join Russia, these former Soviet countries as well as Germany, Ukraine, poland live in fear of an invasion. I am talking about them. If NATO is disbanded, every man and every country for himself to defend, they won't wait for France and Britain to go to nuclear war for them when they can develop the weapon themselves.
but wait....there's more....
I'm sorry, so sorry, in the spirit of HLife, fair play and all, I must turn myself in for spin. Yesterday I said: "Over 75 charges (actually I think Manafort is up to over 100 charges just by himself) filed against 19 people and three Russian companies" apparently sugar-coating the truth.
Today, I cann't tell how many charges for love nor money, probably well over 200, but the 19 indicted became 20 and then 32 indicted by the EOD by The United States of America. Now that's my kind of witch hunt! And I apologize for minimizing how bad this was, I did not mean to sugar coat.
President Trump, fully informed that Team Putin would be indicted a week before it happened, still boldly clamed that it's Obama's watch, Obama's failure, and that he would basically do nothing, nothing at. Less than nothing, he's still signed up for a cozy one-on-one with another despot murdering scumbag leader. Trump also knew that the indictment included the news that these Russians "corresponded with several Americans during the course of the conspiracy through the internet." Here's some quotes, and remember Trump knew about Putin's henchmen being shortly indicted when he said: "I think we would have a chance to have a very good relationship with Russia and a very good relationship with Putin” were it not for Mueller’s “rigged witch hunt.”
“I know you will ask ‘Will we be talking about meddling?" " I will absolutely bring it up,” he said resignedly. But, he said he did not expect Putin to throw up his hands and say “Gee! I did it. You got me!'” Trump threw up his hands to dramatize.
“There will not be a Perry Mason here. But I will firmly ask the question,”
https://deadline.com/2018/07/donald-trump-12-russian-officers-indicted-robert-mueller-witch-hunt-vladimir-putin-chequers-press-conference-theresa-may-1202426196/
At least we will be firm..... But the best was...."I have NATO. I have the UK, which is in somewhat turmoil. And I have Putin. Frankly, Putin may be the easiest of them all," Trump said Tuesday. "Who would think?" OK, remember, he knows about the indictments....
Roger Stone has confessed that he is one of the Americans mentioned in the indictment as "conversing," not colluding with the Russians. He says it was all innocent: you be the judge: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/roger-stone-hes-us-person-mentioned-mueller-indictment/story?id=56577300
IMO, there will be more indictments, this time of Americans. We are getting closer to the inner circle
What Trump should say to Putin is: "hey, be a friend, do the right thing, hand over the 12 indicted." And if the answer is No, walk away saying: "You have been weighed. You have been measured. And you have absolutely been found wanting. Welcome to New World. God save you, if it is right that He should do so."
"If its Friday, its Mueller time"
https://apnews.com/1ddb174446a34785becd670275fedcbf/12-Russians-indicted-for-meddling-in-2016-US-election
they recently wrapped up the Awan investigation with that BS plea deal. No problem here, nothing to see, keep moving - despite the fact that they were responsible for Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz email breach while she was chairman of the campaign.
All of the sudden we now have phantom Russians for “hacking” the DNC and Podesta. Did you read the crowdstrike report? especially in reference to speed of the data transfers which is definitively someone with physical access to the machine - like the Awan brothers....
https://www.crowdstrike.com/blog/bears-midst-intrusion-democratic-national-committee/
meanwhile the emails sent to wikileaks were confirmed to be real
https://www.inquisitr.com/3614870/clinton-confirms-that-wikileaks-podesta-emails-are-true-still-blames-russia/
in the emails:
The rigging of the primaries against Bernie Sanders
mainstream media collusion with the DNC.
Whats not in the emails:
next to nothing about Russia or other foreign countries (aside from countries Hillary took money from).
barely anything even Trump (most of the of the leaks were before Trump was even nominated.)
Who was harmed:
Hillary Clinton
John Podesta
the DNC
and the mainstream media.
http://observer.com/2016/07/wikileaks-proves-primary-was-rigged-dnc-undermined-democracy/
how can you possibly review this information and still support the DNC in any way?
I'm sorry. Are you replying to Russian Hacking saying "All of the sudden we now have phantom Russians for “hacking” the DNC and Podesta" when indictments went out for specific members of the GRU, speaking-indictment noting acts, times, places and people, all of which are in Putin's national security group? Really?
And then your conclusion is: "but what about Hillary?"
While I commend your sources, nice to see you lean left :>), I find your conclusions misplaced and a mere diversion from Russian hacking with American participation to tilt the election away from Hillary Clinton and towards Donald Trump.
And you say nothing about a chummy sit-down with the guy who orchestrated all of this...…
FYI: Jared Kushner is the owner of The New York Observer......
I just don’t understand why the left continually ignores their part in the crimes that occurred - they all need to be locked up.
The yale, you're full of BS! "Funny, South Korean being destroyed if US invaded NK isn't what I implied?"
I didn't say it was. Your statement is there for everyone to see, it's very clear no hidden implications
"we would have invaded them long time ago. What's stopping us? Nukes!",
I proceeded to explain to you why that statement is total nonsense, and there are clear and obvious reasons why we haven't, very straightforward no implications beyond that.
."Did Britain or France or US do something when Russia took over Crimea? Should they have??? Should we have? The Crimean people who are largely ethnic Russian voted to rejoin the Russian federation. Are you suggesting military invention was warranted? Seems to go against your calls for non intervention.
As far as Poland goes the biggest problem they have now is dealing with the EU. They along with a growing number of European countries refuse to be dictated to from Brussels. I have zero problem with them having a nuke. As far as Germany living in fear of invasion, that's laughable. The invasion has been going on for years from the South and Southeast. I would never want to see one drop of American blood shed defending that country. Again you should not be so condescending when clearly you are so light on facts.
Ok SD - I read the indictments - If you think Trump somehow ordered on 27th the Russian Gru to hack the Clinton campaign you are all insane. These events occurred all thorugh 2016. Including July 27th ( the first spearfphishing attempt on Clinton’s Office - section 22 of the indictment) but it all started late 2015 - way before Trump.
They apparently were hacked by phishing. Podesta's pass was p@assw0rd and a guy got in his email/twitter. These people are digitally inept.
Crowdstrike's analysis seems to be holding. I still hold it very contemptable that the FBI did not forcefully take the server for inspection and evidence but it is OBVIOUS that most of the information in the indictment did not come from Crowdstrike. My very skeptical 'Russia hacked the DNC' now truns to 'Russia seems to have hacked the DNC'.
Wikileaks had to request information from the GRU together with why it would be good to release it from them via twitter DM. My original opinion was that they were somehow connected to the GRU, now I simply believe they just have a bone to pick with the US executive branch - not shocking since the whole Snowden incident et al.
Some 'candidate for congress' got information from Guccifer. This is interesting. I am not sure if this is prosecutable. He/She solicits information but he/she was not conspiring the attack itself. It is curious if this candidate is in congress now. But I highly doubt it.
General thoughts:
I think it is self evident that: Organization 1 is Wikileaks. ‘Person with ties to the Trump campaign’ that said 'pretty standard' is Roger Stone (He released the same chatlogs a month + ago) and Company 1 is Crowdstrike.
So nothing wrong with what Stone did. If that is the extent of his contact with them, he should be safe. And why would they write to him on god damn twitter? They 100% know that msgs do not get deleted there. Maybe they wanted to implicate him?
None of what is inside seems to be related to the subpoenas or the interviews Muller was doing. It seems most of it was investigative information from the DNI + Crowdstrike. If that is the case why weren't these people indicted earlier?
This also begs the question - what is the point of this indictment? And how do the we have the names? They even have timing of when GRU agent ran certain commands on google.
An agent was looking at PowerShell commands for Windows Server? This is preposterous.
I find it highly implausible to believe they log in with their facebooks or phones. IPs cannot be specicifically associated with a name especially when used from the GRU office in Russia. Maybe the DNI has some tools we don't know about? In any way I am very skeptical about the names.
So why is Muller indicting foreign governmental actors BY NAME. i would think that SOP would dictate that such information would be kept secret so these agents are not alerted and can be tracked or arrested if they leave their countries. We just blew that - Russia will never proffer them.
It is becoming readily apparent that they picked a number of names of known GRU agents and slapped the indictments on them.
Why? Muller needs court convictions to justify the millions he is spending. He also can not have a discovery process because most of the tools used are probably heavily classified. So he indicts people that will never appear in court and gets a default judgement.
Lets also think about the timing i- very convenient. Yesterday Strzok made a train wreck of smug testimony. Page refused to honor a subpoena. And in 3 days Trump is meeting Putin. This is political.
You’re looking at 12 empty indictments for people that will never appear or be brought to justice. stellar job boys - I know you need to keep the bar low but this is for sure a nothing burger.
Denis,
What is your argument? Invading NK(if they didn't have nukes) would have destroyed SK as well as detroyed so many lives!? Right? With or without nukes, human lives would be lost in war. But if they have nukes,we can't invade them at all. My point was we should have stopped NK before they got hold of the nukes!? Did I say anything wrong there? Nope! This country has invaded Iraq to Vietnam because they didn't have nuclear weapons. Can we invade Iran now? Nope! So, we should have acted earlier before the nukes made in NK, sensible idea, whether that would work I don't know. We could have at least tried then to be threatened by a mad psycho every now and then!
Poland hates Russia more than Europe, we all know that. Russian military is deployed right next to polish borders. If you love Russia so much, maybe migrate there. I am signing off..you can continue if you want alone..by yourself... I don't argue with ignorant people who can't comprehend!
P.S.: Your profile photo looks like trump in meltdown and vomiting mode
My point was that your statement that the only thing stopping us from invading them was that they had nukes was absolute rubbish. So is your argument that we should have had an all out war on the Korean peninsula before that happened. Were you going to join the Army and go fight it? You seem to have a nonchalant view of the casualties of a conventional war. Where did I say I loved Russia, I was merely pointing out that the people of Crimea voted to join the Russian federation. I don't think it's our place, or any other Nato countries place to go to war with Russia because Crimea wants to be part of the Russian Federation. Maybe you should be a soldier of fortune.
"I am signing off" You always cop out when your ignorance gets fact checked, I was waiting for it.
SD You have zero problem with Poland having a nuke?
How about Iran?
Pakistan?
Poland shared values and an ally, yes no problem.
Pakistan that ship sailed they do.
Iran our enemy of course not.
PS it was Poland that came to Europe's defense and turned back the Ottoman Empire in the battle of Vienna, and set the stage for there expulsion of the empire from Europe.
Is there anyone else you can link that shares your thery of events Skippy: would love a second source, thanks.
Dennis; Yes, Pakistan has it, Nk has it — so shipped sailed? Can only have problems before, not after?
My problem is everytime anyone, friends or foe, gets the bomb, the world is less safe and the end of days is closer. Risk is increased, stability is lowered, and everything becomes less fun.
I would rather not live under nuclear proliferation even by friends. Remember, NATO was our friend until yesterday. Now they aren’t, they can kiss my white asymmetrical, and take care of themselves.
That was one of the reasons to become the worlds policman. I can understand asking for equal participation, but this is a damned chaotic and destructive way to do it.
The only winner here is Putin while Trump’s division diversion destablizes the world and makes us less safe. Why is Yrump going Chamberlin on Putin?
Nope as I clearly indicated it was my
Personal opinion - I never indicated it was authoritative, however, any person can avail themselves to the DNI website as well as the indictment.
Are you ok with Germany’s resistance to clean nuclear power and shutting it down in preference to Russia’s fossil fuels?
No Sd, Pakistan, a country riddled with Islamic extremists having nuclear weapons is a major concern. There is just no way of putting that genie back in the bottle that I can think of, can you? I'm not pro nuclear proliferation, but again in my view a country like Poland having a nuclear weapon is not a problem, and can be a deterrent. We have been in Nato since 1949, and the world's policeman all that time. Something I have never supported. I am all for strong alliances, but with individual countries. I really don't want to be allied with Turkey, or with a country like Germany that started both world wars, opened Europe to mass migration/invasion, and is responsible for the EU sending the billions of dollars every year to prop up the Erdoğan regime.
Of course you can’t go back; that’s the point.
And no way is the world a safer place if another country gets the bomb. Ask anyone Trump has threatened with one. Really bad things can happen with the tweet of a thumb even in the land of the rule of law. Even Poland. IMO, bend over backwards not to add bombs or countries with nukes no matter how much you admire them.
Meanwhile —- so you are also against EU aid to Turkey to support Syrian refugees. That’s harsh man. It’s also what bombs buy you —-nuclear, more so. Is that the EU funding you meant?
"Of course you can’t go back"; that’s the point. Yes but clearly Pakistan getting a nuke, or any other Muslim country is a bad idea at the outset. With Russia mutually assured destruction will always be a stark deterrent. Not so with an ideology that thinks nirvana is on the other side.
The money going to Turkey to aid refugees is a payoff from the EU for Merkel's blunders of saying there should be no limits on refugees, now migrants. Turkey actually used some of the money to build a fortified ( I hope all the liberals are sitting down for this word ) Wall, or barricade all along the Syria Turkey border to stop refugees coming in to Turkey. I guess they are not so altruistic after all. If you recall from previous debates here, i have always been against any intervention in Syria. If we butted out, the inevitable would have happened years ago, and the refugee/migrant crisis would have been at the very least minimized.
In all seriousness I don't understand this sentence so can't respond. "It’s also what bombs buy you —-nuclear, more so"
Dennis,
Let's be honest. Why do you always try to drag down EU or Merkel? She is NOT the president of United States. Europe is nearer to middle east, that's why they have these refugee crises. The migrant crisis in Europe is the failure of both Europe and America to tell the very rich Arabs-UAE,Qatar,UAE,Oman to take in refugees. Nobody is pressuring them to stop and take in the refugees. It's their responsibility too, they all contribute to destabilizing each other and proxy war among themselves.
My honest concern is the public opinion of the Europeans may drastically become anti-americans. Trump is fanning that heat and keep adding fuel to the fire he set up. Hating European trade/NATO policies is one thing,he can't stop himself from interfering and insulting them at a personal level and trump supporters keep cheering him up. I saw Laura Ingram at least slamming trump for commenting about who will be better British PM,Brexit and immigration. I don't really care if only Europeans politicians feel the insult, but that is not the case, entire British population is insulted by Trump's comments. He said so many insulting things about the Germans too. I know he doesn't like Merkel,but who are we to tell the Germans that she is not good for Germany? If the Germans elect a far-right leader, will trump and America be able to have nice relationship with that leader? I don't think so, that far-right leader is most likely more protectionist than trump and may play Trump with his own game.
If Merkel or May comes to America on a foreign visit, and lectures America who will be a better American president than trump, and comment on internal matter of America like immigration and crimes. And back in their home countries, if they keep telling their voters in Europe about how Americans are taking advantage of them and the Europeans cheered and supported their leader. Would we like the Europeans if they did the same as how trump is personally attacking their internal policies and their electoral mandate? Trump is trying hard to potray and convince the Europeans as ultimate enemy, especially the Germans and Russia as our friend. I hate it if he turns public opinion in every European country against America and americans
I drag down Merkel because she has been a disaster not only for Germany, but the future of Europe as a whole. As far as electing a far right leader, the far right AFD party already has a large share of say in the German government, something they never had, and Merkel's power is crumbling more every year. The British voted for Brexit, Italy elected a far right leader, Austria elected a far right leader, Poland, and Hungary are among many eastern european countries refusing to go along with the EU on their misguided immigration policies. I drag down the EU because the EU was supposed to be a common economic marketplace, not a dictatorship from Brussels, and Germany telling sovereign countries how to govern. Yes Trump could take lessons in diplomacy, but I was mostly speaking of my own views, and I do agree with most of what he says, but not necessarily the timing. As far as public opinion of Europeans against americans, as someone who has traveled there a number of times over the past 20 years, it's never been great..
I seriously hope and pray that your dream of a far right Germany come true. And if that is the case, they will never put America first, they will consolidate EU more as German power centre more than Merkel and then they will slap Trump's America first right on his face. Hope they will replace Merkel with someone most far right in Germany. That's my personal opinion, a far right German leader will never take order from America,will give back a tweet for every tweet,an insult for every insult
No need to tell the Germans she is no good for Germany. The Germans already know that. Plus she made the $400 billion gas pipeline deal with Russia who wbe supplying Germany with 70% of their natural gas needs. Better not piss Vladimir off as he can turn off the spigot at anytime, especially during those cold German winters.
"I seriously hope and pray that your dream of a far right Germany come true"
"they will consolidate EU more as German power centre more"
If it does I guarantee the FIRST order of business is exiting the EU, not consolidating it. Some AFD slogans from their campaign.
"It's about us, our culture, our home, our Germany."
"Get your country back!"
"Islam is not part of Germany"
From their published Manifesto
We oppose the idea to transform the European Union into
a centralised federal state. We are in favour of returning
the European Union to an economic union based on shared
interests, and consisting of sovereign, but loosely connected
nation states. We strive to live in a spirit of friendship and
good neighbourliness.
We reject the idea of a United States of Europe, as well as
that of a federal state from which an exit is impossible.
15 Europe and the Euro
We believe in a sovereign Germany, which guarantees the
freedom and security of its citizens, promotes economic
welfare, and contributes to a peaceful and prosperous
Europe.
Should we not succeed with our ideas of a fundamental
reform within the present framework of the European
Union, we shall seek Germany‘s exit, or a democratic dissolution
of the EU, followed by the founding of a new European
economic union.
And how smart are Americans who voted for trump and are complaining about Germans buying gas from Russia? They don't know they also buy Russian gas everyday. Does America don't do trade with Russia? Act on what you preach!
Lukoil and rosneft do business with us, that's ok but the Germans shouldn't do any business with them but we can!
Stupid party elected stupid president whose fans buy every stupid word that comes out of his mouth.
https://www.investopedia.com/articles/markets/100515/5-biggest-russian-oil-companies.asp?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=shareurlbuttons
Speaking for myself I have no problem with Germany buying Gas from Russia, it's far preferable in my mind to them buying oil from OPEC. Greed for oil from the middle east is the root cause of so many entanglements in the the area.
Taken from Robert Kennedy JR. Commenting on our military intervention in Syria. including map.
“When we decide to overthrow those people, if you examine the real motives, almost always they serve the interests of large United States corporations who have an economic interest in the region. And in this case that was true. If you look at the roots of this war it is a pipeline war.”
Robert F. Kennedy Jr
The Bierhallputsch slogans of AfD shouldn't mislead us into thinking they don't want a kind of Union. They specifically state "a new European economic Union" but also state the absolute sovereignty of Germany. The translation is a new Union that just has the name "Germany".
AfD is roughly 12% - is that really so large and important? None of the others big enough to get seats will even touch them in a coalition. Their rise is more likely due to the CDU & CSU fighting. Until they split, people with foreigner freudenschade seek refuge in AfD. What may seem like they are more important is they are the largest of the small fry now. That gets them government handouts they didn't have before and an inflated sense of self worth.
Portraying Merkel as a puppet master is minuscule compared to the AfD vision of German dominance. Considering Trump just gave Merkel marching orders on the pipeline and May her Brexit action list, someone just threw boulders in the glass house of telling others how to govern. By the way - the payments to Turkey are by the entire EU, and not a German thing. The aid was negotiated and orchestrated by all the EU members - Germany pays less than 15% of the overall package. Hardly something tied directly to Merkel.
I was in Hungary last year and bizarre to think they are somehow way out of step with the EU when they are a Schengen country and a full EU member themselves. Went in and out of Hungary 5 or 6 times and not a single border guard, checkpoint, or passport check. They just happen to be on the Schengen frontier so on the south side they have a border, north side, no. If you want an outlier it would be Switzerland where you run a gauntlet of gende armes.
Germany's energy dependence is tempered by Brent suppliers. The histrionics are misplaced and more likely the mistaken belief that trade deficit can be "spent". It's the equivalent of trying to pay for NATO with the Progressive Name Your Price Tool.
Good post GC, gets hard to refute this guy given his fake fakes, misplaced hyperbole, and blatant hypocrisy. Certainly can tire out the most ardent of truth seekers.
He claims Germany a captive of Russia getting 70% of its energy from Russia with a natural gas pipe deal. That's not even a misspeak; it's another lie. Germany gets 50% of its natural gas from Russia; natural gas represents 20% of Germany's total energy usage. So 50% of 20% is ---- 10%.
The definition of Trump fact checking is: shooting fish in a barrel.
Meanwhile, we import about 40% of our crude oil from foreign countries; 40% of that comes from Canada so about 16% of our total oil energy. I understand that pipelines may be involved. Guess what, Mexico and even Venezuela -- that's right Venezuela are in the mix for about 3% each. Go figure.
Our total energy usage calls for 10% -15% imports, most of that is Canadian crude. About 40% of our energy comes from oil. 16% of 40% is about 7%. And that factor rises each year as new pipelines, remember Keystone, are added.
That makes Trump's "captive" comment a little bit of hypocrisy of the first order.
"The translation is a new Union that just has the name "Germany"."
No translation is back to what it was supposed to be a common economic marketplace, not federal state dictating policy to sovereign governments.
The AFD is only 1 many new parties gaining power in Germany. Merkel's party CDU lost 55 seats and had their worst showing since 1949. The CSU you mention has less power than the AFD and their number are dropping also. The decline is not the result of infighting, it's all about immigration.
As far as the billions Turkey gets from the EU, yes Germany only pays a portion but it will always be a German thing since it's the result of Merkel opening the doors with no limits. Now other EU countries have to pay the price for her insanity.
As far as Hungary, here is a quote from their prime minister Viktor Orban
"Refugees are Muslim invaders’ not running for their lives" “The West will fall, as Europe is occupied without realising it,”
Yes you could travel freely, but as you said not on the southern border where they erected a razor wire barrier, and stopped them from coming in. The legislature is working on a law to make it a criminal offense for anyone aiding in illegal immigration, there stance is very clear
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-hungary-soros-law/hungary-aims-to-criminalize-aiding-illegal-migration-in-stop-soros-bill-idUSKCN1IU1KE
Are you sure EU funded Turkish wall? I find much right-wing blogosphere stuff, but haven't stumbled across major news outlet covering.
Does this help?
https://www.google.com/amp/www.spiegel.de/international/world/firing-at-refugees-eu-money-helped-fortify-turkey-s-border-a-1199667-amp.html
Like I said, trump declared European Union as FOE and Theresa May didn't hesitate to expose what trump told him on Brexit! If the British were given options to choose between Trump's America and EU, they would definitely chose EU.
He is hell bent in potraying the EU as enemy of America and Russia-putin as our new friend!
If trump supporters feel we can leave behind the animosities with Russia and forged a new friendship with them, do you think the Russians have gotten over the fall of USSR,loss of cold war and fall of east Germany and are full of love for Americans with open arms calling us out of trust, brotherhood and friendship? I would say never.
Thanks Bug, it helps by confirming what I have been seeing too. Often it gets conflated to what Denis believes: "Turkey actually used some of the money to build a fortified ( I hope all the liberals are sitting down for this word ) Wall, or barricade all along the Syria Turkey border to stop refugees coming in to Turkey." Also, most is guesstimates versus actual output from EU countries. Didn't see any denials either.
Yes, Turkey built a wall, as have so many places in Europe. And considering that it's just not refugees coming across the border, considering the US, EU, and others have not a clue what to do about the war (whatever our reasons, we made it worse for example) much less the refugees. How many bombs has Trump dropped, how many civilians has he killed so far. It's one place he does beats Obama hands-down while providing a news blackout to hide this ugly truth from the American public.
By August of 2017, seven months into the reign of Trump, his civilian death count in Syria surpassed 3 years of Obama fighting ISIS in Syria. Thousands more dead in 7 months than the past 36 months under Obama. We are a major cause of the refugee crisis, we are making it worse ever day. And we offer no help to these refugees except to use them as props to build a wall against Mexico. Just saying.
Meanwhile, Bug, the Spiegel article, much better source than I found, notes no EU money being spent on the wall but instead states: "Turkey has barricaded its border to Syria with the help of funding from the European Union." But be careful, it says barricaded, not the wall. Later it adds: "The EU states have provided the government in Ankara with security and surveillance technology valued at more than 80 million euros in exchange for the protection of its borders, according to research conducted by DER SPIEGEL and the European Investigative Collaborations network (EIC)."
So much EU military spending in Turkey, but directly funding the wall --- haven't found it yet. The money I think Denis is alluding to is EU funding for Turkey to house refugees --- pretty obvious why this is a good deal for the rest of the EU. Some of the money Denis is talking about was diverted from housing refugees to military boats ---- but I haven't found the wall yet.
Obviously the EU investing in military defense in Turkey is what Trump is calling for in NATO --- so should not be an issue. They also invested in getting Turkey to house $B-worth of refugees. But directly funding the wall, can't find it.
Skippy's line added nothing, but thanks too.
TheYale: Gotta admit: Russia has what, a couple of cold wars with us. Russia hacked our 2016 election trying to tip the scales towards Trump. The US is crapping all over NATA, we crap on the FBI while on foreign soil, we applaud and placate Russia at the same time.
How long is it until EU countries stop sharing information with the US? Would you trust us to protect your secrets from Russia? Who knows what goes on behind closed doors. I mean its not like Trump to declassify classified info on a whim when sucking up to foreigners face to face. Remember this one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump%27s_disclosures_of_classified_information
Barricade / Wall Tomato / Tomhato. Google image search Syria Turkey border, lots of wall images, and razor wire fence images. Either choice the intent is the same keep the refugees/migrants out, unless someone is willing to pay us off for taking them. You can't truly believe Turkey is doing it for humanitarian reasons, while the barricade and shoot refugees trying to enter the non paid route.
"We are a major cause of the refugee crisis" Agree 1000%!!!. That's what I have always said, that's why I have always called for us butting out. The refugee crisis started under Obama's watch. His CIA program to arm the rebels aka Al-Nusra was a complete and utter failure by anybody's standards, and only contributed to the refugee crisis, as did his policy of helping to overthrow Gaddafi. Keep in mind Hillary was totally on board for that, and she favored more intervention in Syria. You can not possibly try and blame Trump for this mess, and give Obama a pass. His handling of Syria failed at every level. Just a reminder I voted for the man twice, the last vote is something I truly regret, I should have gone third party.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/12/opinion/editorials/trump-nato-obama.html
Trump Got From NATO Everything Obama Ever Asked For
It begins:
Now that the smoke has cleared from the NATO summit meeting, the most tangible result is apparent: President Trump advanced President Barack Obama’s initiative to keep the allies on track to shoulder a more equitable share of NATO’s costs. Mr. Trump even signed on to a tough statement directed at Russia. For once he saw eye to eye with his predecessor. -New York Times
Who gave Obama a pass?. But your feelings towards him should not let Trump off the hook for Syrian War news blackout, dramatically increasing civilian death and refugees without that much expedite on the end of ISI, or chumming up with Putin who, along with Assad, is responsible for the lion's share of refugees.
If it's tomato, then we own many walls given our EU military donations. Although I do agree that who cares, defense is defense. But accounting wise, I can find no EU payments to Turkey to build a fall. Facts is still facts and wrong is wrong like a rotten tomato. Back to the topic at hand: summing my thoughts:
Separating asylum-seeking families, legal or illegal, for the expressed reason to incarcerate misdemeanor asylum seekers is cruel, expensive, and unnecessary.
Appropriate vetting followed by immediate deportation or court appearance date to be combined with an ankle bracelet for appearance assurance is not cruel, but compassionate and far, far cheaper. It will accomplish the goal of rapid deportation for those who don't vet and getting 99% of those who do vet to court which is far, far better than Trump’s ability to return these 3,000 kids to their parents in a timely, or even court-ordered fashion.
Further, Trump’s POLICY of human cruelty is primarily a PR move for Trump TV prime time as a Trump/Sessions marketing message to asylum seekers. It speaks volumes to his feelings about kids and what he will do to a kid just to send a message. It also speaks to his base that supports this; especially the xenophobic and racists amongst them. This is not to say all Republicans are xenophobic or racist. Or that you on HL are. Not at all. I am saying these "people" overwhelmingly now support this party and this President. Kind of like Black Lives Matter for the Dems, except on steroids and without practical purpose like saving black lives.
According to polls, most Americans, some notable, do not support this process: Trump buddy Rupert Murdoch’s New York Post said “It’s not just that this looks terrible in the eyes of the world. It is terrible.”
Billy Graham’s son, a Trumper too, called it “disgraceful.” Kellyanne Conway said on Meet the Press: “no one likes this policy.” Melania said, “We need to be a country that follows all laws, but also one that governs with heart.” Lyndsy Grahmn said “President Trump could stop this policy with a telephone call. . . . If you don’t like families being separated, you can tell DHS, ‘Stop doing it.’” Rather it is the result of a “zero-tolerance” policy instituted by Attorney General Jeff Sessions which treats every person who crosses the border illegally as a criminal—even if they are asylum seekers.” https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2018/06/18/trumps-zero-tolerance-immigration-policy-puts-republicans-in-jeopardy/
Amazingly that which Trump and other said was the law, family separation, and further blamed the Democrats for said law (which never occurred under a Democratic Presidency), was undone with a simple EO. A phone call started it, a phone call could have ended ---- it was obviously a total lie that family separation was the law. It was just a legal choice creating the Trump policy that backfired on him within a few weeks and now we can all pay for in both money and reputation.
Thousands of kids still incarcerated, Trump missing all court dates for return of kids, parents and kids lost all over the system. Like I said, there is no upside and great risk that this does not end well.
" By August of 2017, seven months into the reign of Trump, his civilian death count in Syria surpassed 3 years of Obama fighting ISIS in Syria. Thousands more dead in 7 months than the past 36 months under Obama. We are a major cause of the refugee crisis, we are making it worse ever day".
So you are saying that Trump is responsible for the increase in civilian casulities and the major cause for the refugee crisis. That's rich even from you. Unfortunately the numbers prove you wrong. How about assigning some of that responsibility to Mr. Assad.
https://www.unrefugees.org/emergencies/refugee-crisis-in-europe/
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/the-human-cost-of-the-eus-response-to-the-refugee-crisis/
http://www.iamsyria.org/death-tolls.html
http://sn4hr.org/blog/2017/01/21/31375/
"Who gave Obama a pass?" You did unless I missed it somewhere you never called him out, but you have Trump. If I'm wrong direct me to a post where you did.
You said thousands more dead under Trump than under Obama, do you have anything to back up that claim?
"Should not let Trump off the hook for Syrian War news blackout" What news blackout did Trump help, is there a blackout in Syrian media? Nothing new there. Perhaps there is less news to report since the last time Assad used chemical weapons he crossed a line in the sand that actually meant something unlike Obama's. Maybe because ISIS has been handed a series of defeats and their hold in Syria is left to only a few small enclaves.
KB -- have some more time....
" By August of 2017, seven months into the reign of Trump, his civilian death count in Syria surpassed 3 years of Obama fighting ISIS in Syria. Thousands more dead in 7 months than the past 36 months under Obama. We are a major cause of the refugee crisis, we are making it worse ever day".
"So you are saying that Trump is responsible for the increase in civilian casulities (sic) and the major cause for the refugee crisis." No. I said Trump increased civilian casualties and we are A, not the, major cause of refugees.
"How about assigning some of that responsibility to Mr. Assad." Sorry -- I was focused on the USA and it was not a comprehensive review of the refugee crisis.
But if you are being comprehensive, how about assigning refugee responsibility where it belongs: about 55% of the refugees in the world come from Syria, Afghanistan and Sudan --- hey, involvement in 2 out of 3 ain't bad :>(
To all trump voters,
Trump says America is responsible for the very bad relationship we have had with Russia for many years before he took office. It's an indirect implied kind of an apology to the Russians. So, I think you all agree with Trump that our great country is solely responsible for coldwar and for winning the coldwar and where we have entered proxy wars with Russia and for all the anomosity. You will also agree with trump that Reagan was responsible for the bad relationship he started with USSR. If trump tells America to apologise, you will agree with him too. This is your patriotism...to trump,NOT OUR COUNTRY! What a shame, a party which won the coldwar is apologizing to the Russians for the patriotism with which we won it.
https://twitter.com/ColumbiaBugle/status/1018885283914248192
40s mark -Putin says that 400 Million dollars made on Russian territory, untaxed both in Russia and the US was laundered by US intelligence to Hillary Clinton's campaign...
Remember, Blame America First. Remember how that went with Obama apologizing for America. Remember your anger then...…
It wasn't just America. That was only day one. The Don desired to denigrate as many Americans and American institutions as he could. It was Obama, The FBI, Peter Strzok, Hillary Clinton, and Professor Plumb in the Drawing Room with a Pitchfork. Everyone but Vlad.
Putin's pals, close associates, in the audience were giggling. Honestly, there will be smirks....Check the tape.
We both made many mistakes. Like when you poisoned those guys; you got caught, that was a mistake. Or when you played pocket pool with our election data, sabotaged our election with fake news diversionary tactics; you got caught, that was a very bad mistake since it tarnished my fake news brand. I got hats coming out.....
So Putin gets Crimea, Obama's fault so let it go, Ukraine --- Obama's fault so let it go. Syria --- hey, wait,Trump did good there, that one's ours..... and Putin gets to kill people in all sorts of ways in all sorts of countries, take over countries, and elect our President. Now we bend over backwards to this tin pot despot in charge of an economy about the size of Italy and fully invested in one of the worlds' largest, best equipped military and a bunch of sleazy oligarchs while the people suffer.
So we have now raised the profile of North Korea and Russia as US world equals while pissing all over NATO. Had to be Vlad's best week in 18 years, thanks Don. What's in it for America? What's next? Where's Pol Pot when you need him?
Quite a show of patriotism.
"I have great confidence in my intelligence people, but I will tell you that President Putin was extremely strong and powerful in his denial today," Well, all righty then.
But good news: to investigate TrumpGate further, to gain access to Russian data, we don't need to stinkin extradite, all we need to do is let the GRU in to examine our evidence and then Russia will do the same. Honest. Open those kimonos. Brilliant!!!
"Heh Don, here's a soccer ball as a gift, please put it in your oval office. A higher spot within ear shot of your meeting area would really make me happy Don, wink-wink-nudge-nudge."
Bill Browder made 1.5 billion in Russia never paid taxes and then moved $400 Million Dollars to the Clinton Campaign.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U95AmR3t6iU
“For instance, we can bring up Mr. Browder, in this particular case. Business associates of Mr. Browder have earned over $1.5 billion in Russia and never paid any taxes neither in Russia or the United States and yet the money escaped the country. They were transferred to the United States. They sent [a] huge amount of money, $400,000,000, as a contribution to the campaign of Hillary Clinton. Well that’s their personal case.”
Browder Fun Facts
https://heavy.com/news/2018/07/bill-browder-william/
His grandfather was the head of U.S. Communist Party in the 1930-1940's
In 1996, he founded the hedge fund Hermitage Capital Management in Moscow.
Net worth $4.2 billion dollars
Putin and Browder hate each other
Natalia Veselnitskaya (yup the one and same) announced that on behalf of the General Prosecutor's Office of the Russian Federation, she was investigating Bill Browder and Hermitage Capital, but denied working for the Kremlin
Browder was born in America, he renounced his citizenship in 1998 and moved to Russia before eventually fleeing tax fraud prosecution there and relocating to the UK. So he is NOT an American citizen and any contributions made by him would definitely be foreign in nature.
Reuters tweeted, “Putin says we suspect U.S. intelligence officials were involved in channeling $400 million from businessman Browder to Hillary Clinton election campaign.”
https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1018884329223675905
Skippy,
Why don't Putin hand over the proofs to FBI or DOJ? Oh! Russians don't trust them. Okay atleast he could have given it DIRECTLY to his newest, biggest fan- president of United States and trump would have given it to foxnews
TheYale even anchors on Fox aren't liking what Trump has been saying at this summit. You really think people that support the President can't see this isn't a win for him? There's the difference though. The liberal media will bash him for everything even when he's right. His supporters know when he's made a mistake and call him out on it. Not a strong performance for him.
First I am not liberal nor do I support left or right, especially when it comes to Russia! Why do we have nukes? Why do Russia have nukes? To protect our country and they to protect their country. Since WW2, after coldwar and many proxy wars in veitnam,Korea and Syria. Do Americans still believe Russians love for America and americans are genuine and trustworthy? Look at Putin, he made trump wsit for him for 1 hour, that's an insult in itself to this country. And then trump is bashing America infront of the world and praising Russia and Putin like crazy! Has Putin praised America or Americans? Trump is not crazy but why is he doing this and acting like putin's dog on a world stage?
Given what an embarrassment Peter Strzok is to the FBI, it doesn't surprise me by Trumps actions today. We try to undermine our own elections. Look at what Hillary did to Bernie and Strzok admitted in text messages that they had to stop Trump. What was done to Bernie is more meddling than the Russians could do. Bernie probably would have beat Trump.
Conservative commentator Ben Shapiro called Trump’s performance “self-serving and utterly grotesque,” before declaring Trump “made a fool of himself.” The BBC’s headline simply stated, “Trump sides with Russia against FBI.”
Conservative strategist Chris Barron tweeted, “Not pleased with Trump's Putin press conference. Doesn't feel like America First.”
The audacity of the president of our country, representing America and it's people, to stand on a world stage and to insult this great country for the principle,values it stand for baffles my soul. Sad part is what the Russians must be feeling when american president blames America for having a bad relationship with them for so many years!
Again, hard to take the FBI seriously when you have a top ranking official texting back and forth with his mistress talking about politically biased things. I think that's where Trump was coming from, but it was the wrong stance to take regardless.
TheYale where was the outrage when Obama asked for Japan's forgiveness for dropping the A-Bombs? Cmon... That spits on the memory of those killed at Pearl Harbor.
Why don't Putin hand over the proofs to FBI or DOJ? Oh! Russians don't trust them.
Because they are the swamp.
Okay at least he could have given it DIRECTLY to his newest, biggest fan
Because he would give it to Fox news, after the interview of Putin going on now by Fox. The winners have first dips in the pot.
.
Business associates of Mr. [Bill] Browder earned over $1.5 billion in Russia. They never paid any taxes, neither in Russia nor the United States.
They sent a huge amount of money, $400 million, to the campaign of Hillary Clinton.
We have reason to believe that some [US] intelligence officers accompanied and guided these transactions."
~Vladimir Putin, July 16, 2018
because he wants quid-pro-quo
listen to the video - hes invoking the 1999 treaty for cooperation in criminal investigations. he states the FBI/CIA can come joint interrogate the FSB guys but we have to let the FSB boys interrogate FBI/CIA guys in joint interviews too. never going to happen - start the video at 2:48
There is no substance to anything the MSM is saying about this meeting. They are opposing everything because they don't like Trump. They cannot even articulate their resistance.
HuffPo is running with a prostitute pee tape.. give me a break
https://twitter.com/HuffPost/status/1018932061980254208
So Trump's presser is treasonous, but selling US uranium production to Russia for $140 million in contributions to the Clinton Foundation isn't?
So OBAMA whispering on open mic. "Tell Vlad I will have more flexibility after the election" was what ?
here is what Shaprio said about trump
https://youtu.be/SC4UZ9jKJ9o?t=1m51s
Once again the Left takes away from the meeting what they want.
Trump is bombing Russian planes on Syrian airfields, Killing Russian mercenaries in Syria and arming Ukrainians.. hes a super Russia sympathizer.
Metsman,
Obama never apologised to Japan. Why do you always have to bring up Obama or Hillary when the topic is trump! If you can't talk about trump and Russia and Putin without mentioning Obama and Hillary,let me know.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/obama-apology-hiroshima/
Because it shows the hypocrisy by the media that likes to sensationalize everything.
What do you mean sensationalize everything? Trump and Putin invited the world media for the press conference to cover it live news. The media didn't go in there and put those words on trump's throat! They went to cover the press conference live! Who knew the president of US would insult the United States and put the blame on media for sensationalizing it by reporting the conference live on TV
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/28/world/asia/text-of-president-obamas-speech-in-hiroshima-japan.html
Why don't you read the speech TheYale. While it's not a direct apology, it pretty much is a subliminal message that the US is sorry for blowing up two of their cities. This speech didn't need to be made. And I didn't see any mention of Pearl Harbor in it.
TheYale I'm not saying anything that went on today was right. I'm just saying there's select reporting done. Obama is on video saying after the 2012 election that he could help out a Russian diplomat with something. Where was the outrage over that? There isn't any because they're liberal run news stations.
The yale "Since WW2, after coldwar and many proxy wars in veitnam,Korea and Syria. Do Americans still believe Russians love for America."
Proxy wars yes, but the first 2 were China not Russia, and we decided to involve ourselves in Syria, and country allied with Russia since the end of WW2. That one we only have ourselves to blame.Don't see how you can hang the blame on Russia. We need to take responsibility for our own misguided military interventions.
This is the greatest. All the Republicans who can't shut up about how they love Trump, capitalism, America, god, and hate communism/socialism are here to defend Russia, a country that has consistently been at odds with us every step of the way. How ironic that they call the left brainwashed and here they are defending literally everything that Trump says. Amazing. There is literally nothing he could do that would make you change your minds and you're all so proud of it.
Denis,
Thanks for confirming that Russians were,are not our enemies. They never were, that stupid Reagan started coldwar for nothing. If hadn't been stupid then we would have had Russia as our trusted allies.
I don't see anyone defending Russia - what is occurring is the left opposing peace talks in a dangerously escalating new cold war because of your hatred of Donald Trump - he is the President of the United States right now, and has to maintain relationships with N. Korea and Russia to prevent world destruction.
every MSM Talking point to day is how it is essentially shameful and Treasonous that Trump didn’t blast Putin. Or that he even dignified him with a meeting - that is blatantly moronic..
The Yale, another dumb comment since clearly I said nothing of the kind. I was just fact checking another post of yours again. It's necessary ongoing endeavor since your grasp of world history is very poor.
"That stupid Reagan started the cold war for nothing". Wow Yale, I thing you need to read some history books.
It's simple! Trump called all the past presidents stupid and foolish for keeping bad relationship with Russia. I just indirectly wrote about Reagan what trump told during the press conference with Putin and tweeted today. It's plain and simple- you are either with Reagan or Trump!
I'm not sure who you are referring to, but my comments were directed at your statement regarding a proxy war with Russia, in Vietnam, and Korea. That would be China.
Here is President Obama's take on Russia when he ran against Romney.
https://youtu.be/T1409sXBleg
https://youtu.be/EjLtkw9Q8D8
In a blistering shot at President Trump, Republican Sen. John McCain called today’s news conference "one of the most disgraceful performances by an American president in memory."
He added that it was a “recent low point” in the history of the presidency, calling the summit “a tragic mistake."
Read his full statement:
"Today’s press conference in Helsinki was one of the most disgraceful performances by an American president in memory. The damage inflicted by President Trump’s naiveté, egotism, false equivalence, and sympathy for autocrats is difficult to calculate. But it is clear that the summit in Helsinki was a tragic mistake. President Trump proved not only unable, but unwilling to stand up to Putin. He and Putin seemed to be speaking from the same script as the president made a conscious choice to defend a tyrant against the fair questions of a free press, and to grant Putin an uncontested platform to spew propaganda and lies to the world. It is tempting to describe the press conference as a pathetic rout – as an illustration of the perils of under-preparation and inexperience. But these were not the errant tweets of a novice politician. These were the deliberate choices of a president who seems determined to realize his delusions of a warm relationship with Putin’s regime without any regard for the true nature of his rule, his violent disregard for the sovereignty of his neighbors, his complicity in the slaughter of the Syrian people, his violation of international treaties, and his assault on democratic institutions throughout the world. Coming close on the heels of President Trump’s bombastic and erratic conduct towards our closest friends and allies in Brussels and Britain, today’s press conference marks a recent low point in the history of the American Presidency. That the president was attended in Helsinki by a team of competent and patriotic advisors makes his blunders and capitulations all the more painful and inexplicable. No prior president has ever abased himself more abjectly before a tyrant. Not only did President Trump fail to speak the truth about an adversary; but speaking for America to the world, our president failed to defend all that makes us who we are—a republic of free people dedicated to the cause of liberty at home and abroad. American presidents must be the champions of that cause if it is to succeed. Americans are waiting and hoping for President Trump to embrace that sacred responsibility. One can only hope they are not waiting totally in vain.”
"I read the new today, oh boy….."
So, I am listening to a Trump “Face the Nation” interview and the interviewer asks: ‘will you ask Putin for extradition for the indictments.” Trump starts by saying: ‘I hadn’t thought of that’ and then launches into a blame Obama, Hillary and the FBI rift. You know the one. Catchy beat that you can dance too. I am taken aback not by the lunacy of his theory, but by the fact we have folks filling up on this swill. What a country.
Trump knew about the indictments before the meeting, a week before. He knew about the concept of extradition before the meeting as this interview said. And yet he went PC instead. Go figure. Why would he take this meeting? What value is Russia to us?
How could Trump not think of extradition? Can’t remember the interview? Doesn’t the buck stop here? Isn’t he really the nation’s top cop for enforcing the law? How oh how could this be a new idea?
Vilify Obama on the public stage in from of Putin to his delight. Ask why would a guy who hates Trump have held back on the Russian investigation when a public outing and shaming of the Russian investigation would have cost Trump the election unless the goal was to not disturb the electoral process?
Why did Obama hold back after Hillary’s investigation was outed unless he wanted to avoid looking as if unfair to Donald J. Trump?
Why would the crooked FBI, under Obama, have outed Hillary, against normal FBI investigation process, and not outed the Trump/Russia investigation ongoing at the exact same time.
Why is the FBI, basically run by Republicans, including Trump’s pick for the top spot, collude against the Donald?
Why is what Obama did years ago rationale for what Trump is doing about it now: less than nothing that is?
Why is getting Hillary’s email to prove she really should have lost that election more important than getting Putin’s henchmen who tilted the election scales towards Donald J. Trump?
So you are saying the FBI under Obama was crooked and the FBI under Trump is not? At least Obama told the Russians to "Cut it Out" when details about them interfering with our elections surfaced. As for him not being more vocal , he says he did not want to be seen as interfering in the election. My belief is that they all had the election in the bag for Hillary and thus nothing was said.
And what Trump said today was way out of bounds and just plain sad. What a buffoon. Just my opinion of course.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/12/16/obama-to-face-reporters-friday-at-his-final-year-end-news-conference/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.2e5143715f36
Sarcasm dude, sarcasm.
A crooked FBI didn’t happen unless the Deep State is Republican. NBL.
Just another diversionary Team Trump tactic.
We would never do such a thing,........... um well it's ok because were the goodguys.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/17/sunday-review/russia-isnt-the-only-one-meddling-in-elections-we-do-it-too.html
Denis,
Oh thanks! Now patriotic trump supporters are admitting we are also evil as Russia. Remember when foxnews host bill Reilly said to trump "Putin is a murderer". And trump replied "so are we"! Russia is a saint and we are the devil who interfered in veitnam,Korea and iraq,Libya, Afghanistan with so many wars behind our back. We are the only country that went to war many times after WW2,the devil.
New indictment with russian spy, putin, nra, ahd the republicans.
We have the spy arrested. Americans have not been named yet
Manafort delays court date. Hmmmm.
Trump knew this about putin before the press conference.
A stanger damger indeed
The Yale, once again totally twisting what I said. Just pointing out the hypocrisy of the moral outrage. You sound more like a neocon with every post.
Denis,
Why? Did you choke on your thoughts?You said everyone meddled every other country's elections. Didn't you? Trump defended Putin on Fox news to Bill Reilly that "America is a murderer too"! Did you missed that or trying to forget it? I am never twisted your facts, I added more facts. If we consider the wars we fought on foreign soils,invading countries after WW2 in the name of peace. By that measure, Russia is pure virgin Mary and we are the devil! Don't like it, admit yourself in rehab, you are hallucinating on cocktail covfefe and Russian vodka
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2017/02/04/oreilly-told-trump-that-putin-is-a-killer-trumps-reply-you-think-our-countrys-so-innocent/?utm_term=.6fc813c7dbd7
The Yale you totally twisted what I said it's there for everyone to see. I think you need to change your name to the HatcheryHill, you need go back to the basics when it comes to reading comprehension. Try refuting something I actually said for once instead of your dramatic leaps of adolescent like fiction.
If you’re not complicit, I think its time to resign. Otherwise you are complicit.
We are at the tipping point.
Denis,
Let everyone see it, I never twisted your facts. You defended Putin's Russia's election meddling saying everyone do it, including us. I only added trump also defended putin saying we are also a murderer country. It's funny you don't have the foundation of rationale and you start talking about elementary school? Is that the highest level where your brain can go? Dumb as brick, even elementary school will give up on you!
kb2757,
Veitnam and Iraq..maybe you get it from Trump,tweet to him and asked him and get the list of people America murdered, he said we are murderer country too like Putin.
TheYale clearly my education went much further than yours since you can't seem to comprehend a single sentence. I didn't defend Putin, I didn't say everyone did it, I merely pointed out that we have also meddled in foreign countries elections. Do you dispute that? I find the level of moral outrage a little hypocritical. Do you dispute that we have killed people in foreign lands we are not at war with that we deem as the enemy. I don't have a problem with it when warranted which it usually is, but facts are we have done it. Facts are also there has been collateral damage with innocent civilians. Pointing out reality doesn't make me unpatriotic. Questioning what the government says, and what the media says doesn't make me unpatriotic. You really should change your name, it's an insult to Yale.
We never invaded Vietnam, again you need to get the dust off your history books.
https://www.britannica.com/event/Vietnam-War/The-U-S-role-grows
Same thing right? We meddled in other's elections! I said the same thing! Why are you outraged? Putin is a murderer, we are murderer country too like trump said it. So, what's your argument? Did I say you are unpatriotic? Never. Why do you start defending about being unpatriotic when I haven't said anything like that to you? Forget about my name, I am restating your statement and Trump's and that makes you angry??? That's your thinking capacity!? Yikes!
Kb:
Oh I remember we were invited by the royal king of south veitnam to join the war! Maybe you asked trump, he was never captured in veitnam, so he knows more...
LOL, Yale, I will call Trump in the morning to see if he knows more. Not sure if he will take my call.
TheYale, in your comment to me you implied I was saying America was evil. That would be a pretty unpatriotic view. I'm not angry, with your level of hostility I would say it seems the shoe is clearly on the other foot. As i said, I just like to fact check you, and I can't forget your name, it's the classic example of an oxymoron..
What does Putin hold over Trump and what shoe is about to fall?
Why else would he dump on NATO allies, dump on FBI, CIA, and NSA, while showing fealty to the guy attacking America?
He talks Deep State which is his appointees. He blames Hillary with allegations but denies Putins guilt supported by indictments.
What will Putin make him do next?
No one will trust us with this man at the helm.
“Do you dispute that we have killed people in foreign lands we are not at war with that we deem as the enemy. “
So would you be in favor of imprisoning our vets for war crimes? If they took part willingly in such atrocities they should be hunted down and imprisoned like the nazi hunters do to this very day. If Trump believes this, he MUST imprison our vets now to show he is serious about correcting evildoings.
TheMelvins As I alluded to, yet blotted out by the Helsinki sun, "The Justice Department just charged a Russian national with trying to infiltrate the NRA. Maria Butina was accused of trying to influence the Republican Party at Russia’s behest."
Oh my, we have Russians, ties to Putin, the NRA and the Republican Party. Does that spell collusion?
https://www.vox.com/2018/7/16/17577838/maria-butina-indictment-russia-spy-trump
"The indictment of Maria Butina, who allegedly used the N.R.A. to build ties between Russia and the G.O.P., may have ties to the Trump campaign."
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/07/is-trump-the-unnamed-political-candidate-who-met-an-alleged-russian-spy
Note to spies everywhere: no tweets, no emails..... Note to NRA -- oh come on, you bought that one....
Question: as this indictment broke, why did Manafort suddenly ask for and get a trial delay given this judge took his last request for chance of venue and shoved it right up the Alexandria Federal Lockup; a move from club Fed to the real thing. When Manafort said "never mind," the judge said: "no do-overs, you're on the bus." That judge.
"Legal Experts Say Manafort Could Be Cutting Plea Deal as Judge Suddenly Delays Proceedings" https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/legal-experts-say-manafort-could-be-cutting-plea-deal-as-judge-suddenly-delays-proceedings/
This all I learned on Maddow so: https://www.rawstory.com/2018/07/msnbcs-rachel-maddow-explains-manaforts-virginia-trial-delay-important-development-today/
"Hot town, summer in the city
Back of my neck getting dirty and gritty "
Well, I see the CNN talking points went out mere minutes after the presser was done LOL.
Same old song and dance, my friends.
"If you’re not complicit, I think its time to resign. Otherwise you are complicit. "
Obviously not a fan of the justice system.
No joke that the press is on this stuff; wouldn't you be?
So you are still going with "witch hunt" JR?
I don't know. We got a Russian spy in jail. We got collusion. We got Americans in the NRA and the Republican Party to be named. The indictment is incredibly detailed and MAY include many of the same people, bit coin payment traces, same computers, etc. etc. Just another tentacle off the same Russian octopus supporting the guy Vlad wanted to win: The Don. Manafort could be the American to be named, could be spilling his black-hearted guts, could be going John Dean.
I think you should read a bit more, marvel at the detail, check out the linkages to other Russian activities, ask yourself "why did Trump do that" for so many things and.....
if you see this as same old song, what song is that:
"...You're a martyr, taking all this time
I'm a villain, guilty of a dreadful crime
Cry me a river
All your tears and logic, you know they finally made me see
I deserve the shame, I deserve the blame, the guilt belongs to me.
Yes you're innocent
You're as pure as driven snow
You've been had, I'm a cad, at least at last I know" LWainwright III
trump won the electoral votes. Why is he still so obsessed with Hillary and Obama?
Why the secret meeting? What does trump have to hide?
Does he owe putin ? trump, show us your tax returns. Does putin have the "tape"?
Why hasn't he ever criticized putin? He criticized an American hero. Why hasn't he called him a nasty name like he does his fellow Americans?
Why does he criticize our allies and praise all the dictators?
What happened to MAGA? He just embarrassed Americans.
PBM Themelvins you intentionally took it out of context leaving out the sentence that followed. "I don't have a problem with it when warranted which it usually is"
"He just embarrassed Americans."
...because Obama never did that... on his "apology tour", when he sent the bust of Churchill back to Britain, when he told Medvedev "after my election, I'll have more flexibility"...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsFR8DbSRQE
...when he did the deal with Iran (which has been shown to be a complete joke), when he LIED directly to the American people "if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor", the list goes on....
Trump has no carte blanch on "embarrassing" or "lying". But keep pounding sand, like your side is holding some moral high ground LMAO.
JR spot on! Look at what Bush did before Obama. Justified the Iraq war with false intelligence. That's not embarrassing? Clinton almost got thrown out of office for banging an intern in the oval office and then lied about it. That's not embarrassing? Every President in the last 20+ years has done something embarrassing. Lets not act like what Trump is doing is something groundbreaking...
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/07/17/trump-says-misspoke-on-russian-meddling-during-press-conference-accepts-us-intel-findings.html
Now he is backtracking saying he misspoke. Hey it's better than not addressing it at all. He says he stand by what intelligence has found. Find another story to harass him over...
Yeah, this is just more of the same, comrades. Swamp business as usual.
Everybody’s doing the hokey pokey....
Just click your heels, say MAGA three times and it will be ok.
Sure don’t look like Kansas to me.
Keep the faith though comrades, Trump’s faithful are so very special.
He's not allowed to use the "I misspoke" card. But
"I did not have sex with that woman, not a single time"
and
"if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor"
...perfectly fine. The hypocrisy is staggering.
Someday maybe some of you will finally understand how & why Trump got elected. Hint: it's not because he ran as a republican. It's not because Hillary sucked (well, that was certainly part of it LOL). It's because many Americans are fed up with the good-cop-bad-cop, hypocritical, 2-party system BS. But you'll never hear that on your favorite MSM news sources, of course. But I've only been saying this since before the election....
and FWIW, as some of you probably still aren't getting my point, I'm not defending Trump or excusing his actions (which actions are good or bad are of course purely opinion). But to think because Trump makes a faux-pas that he is unworthy, immoral, or -pick your adjective- over the recent presidents is not only intellectually dishonest, you're lying to yourself.
There is no moral high ground here, no one escapes the "dignity test". To think only "your guys" do perfectly demonstrates the lack of critical thinking and honesty in today's political climate.
Well, I guess its OK.then.
Although even with the correction which was caveated or diverted with a “coulda been those other guys...” when our intelligence groups said: no, it sas Putin.
Nice cue cards too. Poorly Tele-prompted right from the heart.
Except that his uncorrected statement is the same statement he’s used many times as well as a number of times AFTER he knew about the indictments.
Except that even if you were so gracious as to swallow this stuff, and apparently you are, there was still enough betrayal of the nation in the rest of that interview and on his May/NATO trashing to say this guy is really unAmerican, that it would seem disengenuous to rationalize Trump’s words against past Presidents.
Your posts get longer when you ate thrashing :-)
Keep the faith though; I’m sure your hero will pull it out in the end. Personnally, I think it’s time to cut the line on this guy.
Certainly presidents are human and all make mistakes, but are you really equating fawning, treasonous statements as simple mistakes???? Really??? Wow, just wow. If this Dirtbag was a Democrat you’d have him hanged in the town square already. Open your eyes people. Russia is WINNING!
RAS Some honest advice for the Trump supporters in this thread, you should write down a few things that would need to happen in order for you to stop supporting Trump. The reason is because if I had to guess, I would bet that had you done this 18 months ago, standing at a podium next to Putin and saying that he's taking his word over US intelligence agencies would have made the list. Even if he did just "misspeak".
The man has proven he can pivot 180 degrees and then pivot back 180 again the next day. Gun control, ObamaCare, Sessions, NATO. — all 360’s in two nice 180 pivots. How often has he “misspoke” and then returned to the original lie the next day? How often does he lie.
Just like all Presidents. Hardly.
What "treasonous" statements are you referring to? Specifically?
Oh!! I FORGOT!!! Obama giving the Queen an ipod with all his speeches on it. Arrogant much?
Good grief - who is the president now --- give it a rest. Remember - 45 is on the pitcher's mound......................
Hmm.... "taking his word over the US intelligence agencies"... like the FBI? The agency that literally tried to torpedo his campaign so Hillary would be elected? Gee, I can't imagine why he wouldn't trust them LOL
And for those of you who think Trump is arrogant, I direct you to Peter Strzok.
hey 4catmom,
We'll give it a rest when you admit your side's hypocrisy. Deal?
Sorry... I forgot.... "It's BUSH's fault"..... for the last 8 years..... riiiiiiight......
C’mon man, you know neither side has cornered the market in hypocrisy. What specifically? How about standing on a world stage in foreign land not only siding with Russia over our own intelligence agencies, failing to hold Russia to account for anything. You’ve got your partisan blinders on if you can’t see that Putin just made our moron his bitch.
RAS,
"what (hypocrisy) specifically?" .... see my post above. I listed the hypocrisy.
How, exactly, is the president (whichever party he came from) supposed to "hold Russia accountable"? I'm all ears.
Secondly, as I have said- you're missing my point. I'm trying to illustrate EXACTLY that BOTH sides are full of crap. Trump is no worse than Obama was, or Bush 43, or Clinton. Just a different angle. Much ado about nothing.
Just like the nomination of Kavanaugh ... "millions will die"??? Really??? What a load of BS. Gorsuch replaced like-minded Scalia, and Kavanaugh (who not only clerked for Kennedy, admires Kennedy, but Kennedy admires him), will replace Kennedy. Like for like. Nothing to see here.
Now, if Ginsberg finally succumbs, that may be a REAL battle. The victor writes the history...
People need to stop allowing themselves to be fed their opinions by the MSM, and do a little critical thinking for themselves...
How about cornering a lack of reality jr
Hilliarys working fbi investigation got outed with prejudice on the election’s eve while Trump’s Russia investigation kept under wraps
Revisionist history.
Trump met with Putin alone for 2hours!
Why would he wouldn't want any american around him?Why? Why the secrecy?
Peetape? Millions from Russian bank? Or to request to not only meddled in mid-terms and 2020 but flipped for GOP?
It's funny... through Obama's ENTIRE first term, and at least some of his second, it was "it's Bush's fault! Look what Bush left him with!"
Nothing was EVER Obama's fault. Even when he lied to the face of the American people with "if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor".
Now that Trump is president, it's ALL Trump's fault? Interesting......
Even Putin can't provide the proofs that he or Russian banks or any Russian national gave 400 millions to Hillary! That's the most hillarious joke of the century!
But trump begging and then meeting Putin alone for 2 hours without translators is there on the record. Hope the Finnish agents or CIA had bugged the room.
How did Russia meddle again? Oh yeah, they (allegedly) provided TRUE information to Wikileaks about Hillary Clinton and John Podesta. And we have come to this conclusion without the DNC servers. But we should absolutely trust Clapper, Comey, McAbe and Strzok.
One of the most amusing parts of this whole thing is watching the Left turn in to ardent, die-hard supporters of the FBI, CIA, etc. and everything they say. Meanwhile the same DNC rigged the primary and some Russians bought some Facebook ads.
Drumpf is finished now!!
Hold him accountable by at least SAYING it JR. Cut it out or more sanctions are coming! We know what you did! ANYTHING other than what he said. He very strongly denies it! NO, Really??? Wtf else would he say? I believe him, really? Over our own people?? Really?? Even if our guys were wrong, really would you say that to our enemy?
Oh and as far as it all being his fault, NO you’ve got it all wrong, NOTHING is his fault because he takes responsibility for NOTHING!!! What a piece of excrement!
What did Strzok do that was anything worse than Trump? 22 years as our best of the best against the Russians, that!’s what, that’s why.
Strzok’s Ghost Operation destroyed the Ruskies. So what’s a little pillow talk puffery. Not like he admitted groping women, grapping by the pussy, or paying off your spanking porn stars via your Russianed up fixer. He wasn’t that bad
And his explanation seems good to me.
Another Putin win from Team Trump.
Lol a true hero - he’s so bright he is having an affair on his FBI phone while investigating a sitting president knowing the texts are discoverable. This is the very top echelon of the FBI. Think about that.
"Even Putin can't provide the proofs that he or Russian banks or any Russian national gave 400 millions to Hillary! That's the most hillarious joke of the century!"
Oh you mean just like NO ONE can provide proof of "russian collusion"?
Exactly.
Uh, I guess you missed the latest indictments. Plenty of collusion tween republicans, nra, and russians.
Its mearing end game.
"And his explanation seems good to me".
Of course it did, and you are okay with how Strzok changed the wording(on his computer) from Grossly Negligent to Extremely Careless on the Hillary investigation which basically let her off the hook.of course your okay with that.
And you can blame Anthony Weiner and Huma Abedin in for the election eve surprise regarding having classified emails found on Weiners laptop.
"We know what you did! "
But we (you) DON'T. There's NO PROOF.
Did you guys even READ the report? Or just WATCH the presser? 12 indictments yes, but:
Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein:
“There is no allegation in this indictment that any American citizen committed a crime. There is no allegation that the conspiracy changed the vote count or affected any election result.”
I was talking about Russia not our moron. Just goes to show how dark your red blinders are.
And there’s “no collusion “ because the investigation, (you know, the witch hunt), isn’t over yet! Maybe there isn’t any, hopefully not. But it’s not finished and until it is you can’t say either way. So what, we’re not supposed to have criticism about how he conducts himself or debases our country and countrymen because there’s “no collusion “? Why don’t you go and read the whole indictment and all the stupid EO’s, and the constitution, and your various news sources and then go pat yourself on the back some more. It still won’t make a difference that we have an amoral dirtbag moron for a puppet, I mean president.
Lest we forget about countries trying to affect other countries' elections...
Obama sends taxpayer money to campaign to oust Netanyahu in Israel:
"The State Department paid hundreds of thousands of dollars in taxpayers grants to an Israeli group that used the money to build a campaign to oust Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in last year’s Israeli parliamentary elections, a congressional investigation concluded Tuesday."
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jul/12/obama-admin-sent-taxpayer-money-oust-netanyahu/
Rand Paul has this whole (current) situation exactly right:
There's a simple explanation: It's all part of "Trump Derangement Syndrome," says Sen. Rand Paul.
"Any country that can spy does, and any country that can meddle in foreign elections does," the Kentucky Republican said Monday on CNN.
"All countries are doing this, but we've elevated this to a higher degree, and we've made this all about the sour grapes of Hillary Clinton losing the election, and it's all about partisan politics now. This is truly the Trump derangement syndrome that motivates all of this," Paul said.
Paul said it's important for the U.S. to continue "engagement with our adversaries." “We should look for ways to make the dialogue better.” But he also said people should focus on what truly matters.
"What I would say is that instead of making this about, everything is about Trump and accusing Trump of collusion with the Russians and all this craziness that's not true, we should try to protect the integrity of our elections," he said.
read more:
https://www.dailywire.com/news/33162/rand-paul-presidents-summit-critics-suffer-trump-joseph-curl?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_content=102516-podcast&utm_campaign=beingconservative
There is collusion in the latest indictment and arrest of the russian spy in cahoots with the nra and republicans. Americans, like in the indictment of the 12, to be named.
In the case of the 12, Stone has already confessed to being one of the Americans.
Keep on thrashing. Time to blame Hillary.
This summit has created more mass hysteria than all the other mass hysteria's combined in the past two years.
"Wow, jr defending Trump."
Wow, I see SD needs ANOTHER course of remedial reading 101.
Yes SD, RAS, and company have severe TDS. Rand Paul is spot on with his comments. Oh yea wasn't Hillary the one who sold a bunch of uranium to Russia... I guess selective outrage is the Democrat way.
" But we (you) DON'T. There's NO PROOF."
"There's a simple explanation: It's all part of "Trump Derangement Syndrome," says Sen. Rand Paul."
"Oh you mean just like NO ONE can provide proof of "russian collusion"?
"Now that Trump is president, it's ALL Trump's fault? Interesting...…"
No, you're just defending the office...… Fact is: 32 people indicted, 3 companies indicted, four former Trump advisers, 26 Russian nationals, three Russian companies, one CA citizen, one lawyer based in England. Five guilty pleas, three of them Trump aids. Two folks in jail, one Trump's former campaign manager.
Five people talking state's evidence to Mueller.
Of those pleading guilty, mostly of lying, two lied about contacts with Russian government, before and post the election.
Then there's Cohen and Stormy which unleased Cohen's cash deals for access to the President, including ties to Russians awaiting Cohen's flip to state evidence.
Yes, no direct ties of Americans working with Russians until...…..
"On Monday, the DOJ arrested and charged a Russian national who courted the NRA and the Republican Party with secretly working as a foreign agent."
That's arrested jr, we have her.
"In a sworn affidavit, FBI agent Kevin Helson said Maria Butina worked to set up “back channel” communications between Americans and the Kremlin"
"Helson said he believed Butina moved to infiltrate an American gun rights organization as part of her pro-Kremlin operations."
"“The evidence set forth in the affidavit suggests the NRA was being used by the Russian government as a conduit to the Republican Party and political leaders in the U.S.,"
“She appeared to have access to NRA leadership,”
"She predicted that an unnamed major political party—all but certainly the GOP—would ascend to power in 2016. The American responded with advice on how to cultivate relationships in that party, as well as a list of Americans she should get to know."
"She even made contact with then-candidate Trump" (OK, it's a presser, but look at the question and remark at the answer....."
An American wrote: "“Unrelated to specific presidential campaigns, I’ve been involved in securing a VERY private line of communication between the Kremlin and key POLITICAL PARTY 1 leaders through, of all conduits, the [GUN RIGHTS ORGANIZATION],” he wrote. "
Yeah, no collusion..... https://www.thedailybeast.com/russia-nra-arrest-this-is-as-close-as-it-gets-to-collusion
In other words, Americans are noted, but not named yet, the noose is hanging in plane view. I would ask, at this time, for you to say: "what would you think if this was Obama...…"
Where is the swamp now? How can you related this to past Presidents, any of them, including Nixon? Who has ever been this chummy, this cozy, this deferential, this embedded with the Russians?
Skippy: what are you talking about. Because of Peter and Lisa, how can you equate the entire intelligence community to democrats? What is your solution, purge and replace every intelligent official with trump voters?
JR: change your flag to Russia's. Trump just threw America and americans under the bus to defend Russia. We know if trump ordered you to learn and speak russian, you would defend that too! Anything trump throws,without looking at it and reasoning it, you are ready to jump in and defend him, even if that means president insults the intelligence community with Putin.
I see TheYale needs to go back to his ivy league education and also take remedial reading 101... sigh....
“Skippy: what are you talking about. Because of Peter and Lisa, how can you equate the entire intelligence community to democrats? What is your solution, purge and replace every intelligent official with trump voters?”
No my point is how does someone with poor enough judgement to appear hugely biased on a work phone with a coworker end up with that position of responsibility knowing full well that the appearance of impropriety would taint the entire investigation
Skippy:Your words,not mine!
"How did Russia meddle again? Oh yeah, they (allegedly) provided TRUE information to Wikileaks about Hillary Clinton and John Podesta. And we have come to this conclusion without the DNC servers. But we should absolutely trust Clapper, Comey, McAbe and Strzok.
One of the most amusing parts of this whole thing is watching the Left turn in to ardent, die-hard supporters of the FBI, CIA, etc. and everything they say. Meanwhile the same DNC rigged the primary and some Russians bought some Facebook ads."
So, to provide true information on a political party,hacking DNC by Russia is okay! Point noted. But don't even think the Russians didn't hack the republicans's, cos Mueller investigation has already claimed that. And they will not stop with DNC or RNC, we know it. Whatever they hack-be it power grid,nuclear networks or anything else- always remember they are doing it to get REAL information.
FBI,CIA,NSA doesn't consist of Clapper, Comey, McAbe and Strzok.! Its a shame that you will go to this length of shaming thousands of agents working day and night to protect us.
I was referring to your own words
"One of the most amusing parts of this whole thing is watching the Left turn in to ardent, die-hard supporters of the FBI, CIA, etc. and everything they say. Meanwhile the same DNC rigged the primary and some Russians bought some Facebook ads"
The left shouldn't be supporters of FBI,CIA? Only the right has the right to be supporters of these agencies and also has the right to criticize and demean them? And the left should keep quiet?
DNC rigged the primary for HRC, fallout- Bernie supporters dump HRC! Lessons learnt by democrats.
But the focus is the Russians hacking DNC and trump defending them like he is their loyal dog!
Saddest part is his voters are willingly defending the Russians to defend trump
TheYale by law members of the FBI are to be politically neutral when doing their investigations. When Strzok and Page are texting about needing to stop Trump, how is that neutrality?
SD all these indictments of Manafort and Flynn and whoever else are over issues that had nothing to do with the campaign. They went after Manafort for things he did years ago. If Mueller had anything on Trump, it would have been revealed by now. The investigation started a long time ago. Why is it the FBI could end the Hillary investigation in months, but Mueller's is going on years. Of course it isn't going to end before the midterms...
Metsman: FBI,CIA and NSA were,are neutral. Two dumb agents let's their political side out before the election,it was,is inappropriate. Nobody is arguing that. But did they really stop trump? Nope. Could they have? Never! Many people worked under and above them, if they even tried, for the sake of your argument,they would have been leaked or reported to authority concerned.
It's stupid the neutrality of agency like FBI where thousands work,based on text messages of two stupid agents. You can't malign and demean the work of thousands dedicated FBI employees based on two individuals.
"Two dumb agents "
Well... in that case.... Trump is only ONE president... I mean, there were many before him and will be many after him, but he is only ONE, so.....
"So, to provide true information on a political party,hacking DNC by Russia is okay! Point noted. But don't even think the Russians didn't hack the republicans's, cos Mueller investigation has already claimed that. And they will not stop with DNC or RNC, we know it. Whatever they hack-be it power grid,nuclear networks or anything else- always remember they are doing it to get REAL information."
they compromised decommissioned systems and may have accessed an old donor list.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/10/us/politics/russia-hack-hearing-clapper-rogers-brennan.html
big difference. of course it's not OK, but what is REALLY not OK is the DNC / HRC refusing to participate in the investigation and destroying evidence under subpoena.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/from-fbi-fragments-a-question-did-team-clinton-destroy-evidence-under-subpoena/article/2600969
https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2015/0328/Did-Hillary-Clinton-destroy-evidence-in-wiping-clean-her-email-server
you cant make collusion claims and refuse to allow the FBI which you now trust to much to investigate...
"The left shouldn't be supporters of FBI,CIA? Only the right has the right to be supporters of these agencies and also has the right to criticize and demean them? And the left should keep quiet?"
We all know the left is never going to keep quiet. It's pretty ironic that the left and the MSM propaganda arm now has an admiration for the IC / FBI? what happened to championing of the First Amendment? Remember the celebration of the Snowden leak to Wikileaks? That was less than five years ago, and again, nobody on the left seemed to care about national security. the Left now happily bows down to governmental authority because it's anti Trump - hypocrisy indeed.
"But the focus is the Russians hacking DNC and trump defending them like he is their loyal dog!
Saddest part is his voters are willingly defending the Russians to defend trump"
I don't see anyone here defending the Russians - I don't see Trump defending the Russians. Whether you like or not, both Putin and Kim Jong Un ARE world leaders.
Putin is the devil we know. We know exactly what Putin wants - money and control of Europe, and although he's willing to use force to get what he wants, he's not willing to have Mattis step on his over it. Putin wants control, not absolute destruction, and the same goes for North Korea.
Skippy: You can spin Hillary's emails,DNC Server for till the end of trump's presidency! But history and world have witnessed that majority in the Congress and Senate are GOP, president is republican. And still they can't do anything to re-open this investigstion,they better hire the Russians or NK or Iran to do it for them. As for the Pakistani IT guy, trump can snap his finger, that guy will be extradited in the next flight to US. CRY ME A RIVER OVER HOW THE REPUBLICANS HANDS ARE TIED OVER DNC/HRC SERVER!
JR:
"Well... in that case.... Trump is only ONE president... I mean, there were many before him and will be many after him, but he is only ONE, so....."
Let me help you...
....So.... HE IS THE ONLY ONE PRESIDENT IN THE HISTORY OF THE UNITED STATES TO KISS PUTIN'S RUSSIA'S FEET AND THREW HIS COUNTRY UNDER THE BUS!
That's how the rest of the world sees it! The only one US president ever!
Can the GOP somehow miracle destroyed evidence back into existence some how?
Just curious.
TheYale:
How, exactly, did Trump "throw his country under the bus?" I'm serious- you're going to need to provide specifics, if you want a real debate. Some CNN hosts' talking points will not pass muster.
Every president has done things that were not good for the country. You act like this is a "new thing"; it is not. Also keep in mind "not good for the country" and "you don't like it" are not necessarily the same thing.
So, let's hear it: how exactly did Trump "throw his country under the bus?"
(I honestly don't know why I bother asking, as you have demonstrated again and again and again you are bought-and-paid-for by the DNC and CNN. So honest, intellectual discourse will be near impossible with you.)
Just like with Korea/KJU: if OBAMA had been the one to sit down with Kim, you would have been here on HL calling for him to receive another Nobel. But let TRUMP do it, and he's "caving to the enemy." It's actually quite funny that you can't see your own blind hypocrisy. CLINTON has an extramarital affair in the oval office and it's "none of our business", but Trump has one BEFORE HE's EVEN PRESIDENT, and it's worthy of impeachment. Some of you people have an awful long way to go....
JR these people are funny... It's like they were born and skipped over decades of their life and remember things from 2016 on...
Skippy: Who said it's destroyed? Can you destroy a third party server? A proprietary of a third party company's server? Just curious! DNC is not an IT company, they pay for their server space. Server is not DNC's refrigerator, that they can destroy it. The company whosee server they used must have disaster management plan, to backup and get back all data in case of a disaster. Every IT service company are mandated to have minimal Backup and recovery plan. I hope REPUBLICANS are not trying to prove they indeed are stupid party.
Former U.S. Ambassador Jack Matlock - the intelligence community has only tentatively concluded that there was official Russian meddling of a very insignificant and ineffectual kind in the 2016 election.
Intel Report On Russian Interference "Politically Motivated" and has UNUSUAL FBI PARTICIPATION - looking at you Comey..
http://jackmatlock.com/2018/06/musings-ii-the-intellience-community-russian-interference-and-due-diligence/
here's this amounts to - $10 million spent on vague Facebook ads decrying the general condition of the country,
HRC spent $250 million on attack ads against Trump.
http://metrocosm.com/2016-election-spending/
Clapper and Brennan, as well as Comey, have all perjured themselves before Congress under oath - the best predictor of future performance is past performance. sorry if I don't hold their opinions in high regard in regards to collusion.
In re the witch hunt - as we previously discussed - we indicted unextraditable Russians and we have Paul Manafort for tax fraud many years before he met Trump. Woo Hoo! The only reason Sessions and Rosenstein are still gainfully employed is because the noise of 80 million democrats heads exploding would be deafening..
so we all have to sit here and pretend Mueller is conducting a serious investigation.
"Skippy: Who said it's destroyed? " Sounds like BS to you too apparently. thanks for making my point.
the answer provided by the DNC when the FBI requested to investigate was :
"As a result of the persistence of the Russian state-sponsored infiltration, in order to remove the unauthorized users from its network, the DNC was required to decommission more than 140 servers, remove and reinstall all software, including the operating systems, for more than 180 computers, and rebuild at least 11 servers.”
1. DNC is alleging in federal court that crimes were committed on its servers,
2. they never let the FBI investigate
3. destroyed the evidence
Comey was A-Okay with that - whaaaat!
Jan. 10, 2017 before the Senate Intelligence Committee
“Ultimately what was agreed to is the private company [Crowdstrike] would share with us what they saw… Our forensics folks would always prefer to get access to the original device or server that’s involved, so it’s the best evidence"
- James Comey
There's no evidence any meddling impacted the election. What can be proven is that Hillary ignored the battleground states where she lost. So keep talking Russia Russia Russia, it means jack... Everyone already knew about her irresponsible actions with the emails. She lost because of her own stupidity and the fact that she had no message. It also didn't help her that her husband is a proven sexual predator. We can also prove she rigged the primary with Bernie. Why don't you Libtards cry over that? You're going into 2020 with the same nonsense. No message.
Skippy: I never knew the GOP is a weak, impotent party,not only stupid! Oh! The DNC won't let us access its server! Seriously? All the GOP controlled senate and house and president could do is subpoena the company whose server DNC used! That's it. Like I said servers can't be DESTROYED! DNC don't have a single server dedicated to them! That's not how it works with companies that provide hosting services. Okay?
DNC uses a slice of the server, a replication of which will be always available in other physical servers of the company. It cannot be destroyed, either the company has to physically burn down the server which contains other customers' data as well, not only DNC, or the company has to go in and physically delete only DNC data, in that case, deleted data can always be recovered.
Why write a blog Skippy? It's the same points we discussed, why keep writing long long paragraph? If Cohen's data, manafort's data can be obtained by subpoena, why can't the senate and Congress subpoena the company? Is DNC bigger than senate,Congress and president? No! But the senate, Congress and president are making DNC bigger and powerful than themselves without the DNC knowing it.
"There's no evidence any meddling impacted the election." There's no evidence that it didn't impact the election either.
There's lots of evidence, except for Trump, that Russia meddled in our election (want to see the bitcoin funding payments?) Why Trump, even in his silly one word retraction that took him 48 hours to figure out, still says "it could be other guys...." speaks volumes.
Mets: it's hard to keep up with the over 200 charges files thus far but how you continue to support an administration with more Russian ties than Carter has pills seems partisan to say the least. It’s interesting that you like Clinton/Obama/Trump comparisons while calling for a speedy end. I mean: Clinton Impeachment, Benghazi, ObamaCare repeal ---- I would think you would be asking for more, more, more……given the success versus all your failures to date. I mean we’re tossing you a softball here :>).
You are correct: no smoking gun yet. What we do have is a campaign and an administration that is filled with Russian-beholding characters across the board. We also have indictments discussing numerous Americans with involvement. Let's focus on the indictments.
Trump surrounds himself with folks who owe their careers to the Russians. We are not talking ideals, we are talking cold cash. As in I build my career on top of Russia. They are all over the campaign, all over the administration, at this point, they are in our living rooms.
You say: "all these indictments…..are over issues that had nothing to do with the campaign."
You seem to be OK with Trump lauding, applauding, and hiring Flynn as a National Security Advisor being charged with illegal lobbying efforts on behalf of the Russians and the Turks. Flynn met with the Russians during the campaign. Since he plead guilty and turned witness, we don't know yet the rest.
And OK with Manafort, Trump Campaign Chair, facing over 100 charges, 80 years for illegal lobbying with Russia and Ukraine. Manafort met with the Russians during the campaign.
Papadopoulos, on Trump's foreign advisory board, met with a professor with major Russian government ties. That's during the campaign, with a Russian, in the parlor.
Sure seems it has to do with the campaign, and yes, much bad stuff happened earlier to set it up. And that’s before we get to the Russians, were we do seem to have collusion in this latest spy/NRA/RNC conspiracy.
My point is there’s Russian’s in Trump’s history --- his business is built on Russian financing, he has Russians as customers, and as neighbors. Really bad ones too. There’s folks with Russians all over Trump’s campaign. And there’s folks all over the Trump administration with Russian financial ties.
No smoking gun but with all that you say stop the investigation, you have had enough?
Yale - because were a country of laws - I’m fully cognizant iof how rackspace hosting works. That was the answer they gave and our former FBI Director accepted - I don’t agree with it either. I don’t call you names - I don’t see anyone else here calling you names either. the minute you resort to attacking someone personally for their beliefs you’ve lost the debate.
SD - as I said it has to play out but it’s clear that the results have been fruitless to this point. the difference between our opinions is that I feel that the guilty parties on both sides should be held accountable - it’s pretty apparent there’s only one possible outcome for this investigation in your eyes.
Skippy - I'm sure you know what AWS and a VM is. That's how CrowdStrike delivers its platform. You know there is no physical server. The tweets are all a ruse knowing already there is no server to have gotten. It's Trump/GOP talking points the same as Obama's birth certificate that Trump later admitted was bogus. It's easy to demand something you know is impossible to get.
The FBI got an image of the VM, just the same way the Russians were hacking them - they didn't hack the server but got into Amazon's image archive. The contents of the server are reproducible at any time. That's exactly the way that computer forensics does it today even on a physical machine.
Skippy, how can you say fruitless -- we got indictments, jail time, flippers, 24 foreign nasties --- I mean compared to Benghzi investigation, Clinton investigation, Clinton impeachment, ObamaCare 50 ways to repeal your lover, --- we're rolling in roses with production here. I say we sign up for another year of 30 or so indictments!!!
And then METs, there’s the Russians themselves. Why would you want Mueller to stop given all the Russian production he is getting here. I mean what would have Trump given Vlad if Mueller hadn’t dropped the second dirty dozen on him? And you say stop…….
The Russians Dirty Dozen indicted were basically internet trolls feeding you pro-Trump information while printing nasty information on Hillary Clinton." You know, the "facts" you printed as gospel but never used to make your decision -- wink, wink, nudge, nudge. No proof of it at least…. But I think I see some of your post Russian plagiarisms in there :>)
The Russian Dirty Dozen Part II were the hack. If you read the indictment, you will see the no collusion, no Americans yet. You know, the passages you love to quote. (actually that’s Rosenstein out of context, but hey, we give you the Mulligan). You will also see that there are Americans in the mix, including some in contact with highest levels of Trump campaign, there is also non-indicted "Organization 1" who arranged (with others like Stone?) the timing of the leaks for maximum damage to Clinton; probably WikiLeaks.
Remember, these emails were selected, grouped, and timed for release. Somebody over here most likely helped that planning. We have names, the process, the payments, and more. We know the machine ids, usage, you name it. None of which is in the indictments either, just alluded to.. We know there's American involvement. Mueller has just not unveiled yet.
But wait, there's more..... The new indictment and FBI arrest of Russian spy Butina is linked at the top to all of the other Russian indictments, a vast conspiracy. The new indictment comes closer to collusion than anything else given the interplay with Russia, the NRA, American 1, American 2, and the Republican party. Doesn't touch Trump? Want to see pictures? Video....
Yes, they went after people for things years ago, but they did continue meeting and we don’t know yet, what else. I believe Trump knows it but believes once he can rise once again as he has so often before. Congress just wants to get along to get along so even if the wall wavering on this last outrage, it has not cracked….yet. Mueller will defend the office of the Presidency, so he is slow rolling the American aspect, not to protect Trump, but to protect American and the Office of the President.
And so the slow dance continues. But if you don’t see Russians in the campaign, Russians all over the government, and Russians in your living room, you’re not the patriot I think you are.
Why did Obama grant citizenship to a Russian operative/spy? Butina was born in Barnaul, Altai Krai, Russia, on November 10, 1988.
Was it a lack of vetting by the Obama admin that let her in here?
Skippy: Excuse me? Did I call you names? I hope your name is not GOP. If your name is GOP, I am sorry for abusing the word GOP (didn't know your name is GOP). If a crime is committed, access to the server is not such a big deal, that you are trying to potray it to be. If FBI can't do it, senate and house should step in, they didn't,they won't! If they are not ready nor interested in getting access to the server, then it's time we stop this stupid server thing. You can't have it both ways-
1)power to subpoena anything and anybody in the US, reopen an investigation when you are majority in house,senate and your own party president
2) cry,crib and whine about being a helpless,abused,poweless party.
First, decide which one of these is the REPUBLICAN party?
Trump has been tougher on Russia than Obama ever was.
Obama told the Russians to 'Cut it out' while at the same time ordering his IT hacker investigators to stand down on investigating the Russian interference/hacking attempts into our elections. Let that sink in for a minute.
This isn't news, but it is an inconvenient truth which is ignored (like a lot of truths are by the left) by the never-trumpers who are still suffering, reeling from losing the election and will say anything to denigrate, demean, dismiss, delegitimize the guy currently in the office. Some might call that seditious, which is as valid a claim as the OCD claims regurgitated daily by those who are blindly and unthinkingly throwing out words like treason and impeachment.
You guys want to chillax a bit out there?
SD where's all this Russian dirty dozen crap that was posted? I never saw any of it. I bet most people never saw any of it. No one influenced my decision except the candidates themselves.
SD people like you won't rest until the decision of the American people is made invalid because your candidate lost. It's pathetic.
Virtue signaling, is that the only play that the absurd leftists have in their kit bag?
'. . . . you’re not the patriot I think you are.' ; and neither are you, you're not the patriot you think you are. There you go, fixed it for ya'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Manafort_superseding_indictment.pdf
Here's a copy of Manaforts case documents. This stuff all predates the campaign. So please tell me again what his indictment has to do with Trump.
GC: Sean hannity and foxnews have been convincing people it's possible to scrub servers with bleach! Can anyone please explain me how to bleach cloud servers like AWS,Azure and Watson?
GC - I know the majority were cloud based - did not know it was AWS) could as well have been Azure or ESX infrastructure). crowd strike has a number of platforms it's not limited to hosted infrastructure. in any regard I agree the FBI would normally get logs and VM snapshots - it's in the manual to take images of even Iron boxes.
https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/criminal-ccips/legacy/2015/01/14/ssmanual2009.pdf
crowdstrike alleges they gave them to the FBI.
In testimony before the House Intelligence Committee Comey complained that the DNC didn’t give the FBI direct access to the DNC’s servers - I wouldn't think he was asking for a production VM.
so which is it? legit question right
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2017/03/20/full-transcript-fbi-director-james-comey-testifies-on-russian-interference-in-2016-election/
Fidelis Cybersecurity and Mandiant, independently corroborated Crowdstrike’s assessment that the breach was C2C malware - but also in their analysis that a USB drive was most likely used to boot Linux OS onto a computer that either contained the alleged DNC files or had direct access to them - this indicates a physical chassis not a VM. There is nothing in anywhere that I have read that the Russians popped an S3 or Glacier bucket. if you have that I would love to read it.
https://theforensicator.wordpress.com/
Yale - the stuff was subpoenaed. see above
Mets - here is the indictment
http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/4598946-12-Russians-indicted-in-hacking-of-Hillary.html#document/p1
Yale - it's bleachbit not bleach..
https://www.bleachbit.org/news/bleachbit-stifles-investigation-hillary-clinton
and that comes from HRC playing dumb
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/aug/19/hillary-clinton-wiping-email-server-cloth-or-somet/
TheYale IDK about that but I know CNN and the likes have you believing anyone who voted for Trump is a racist. Just go watch Van Jones crybaby act after the election...
Skippy,
Now what? Fbi,CIA directors are trump appointed. Where is the investigation? If it was closed without proper assessment, why not reopen it? It's been nearly two years that pro-trump news outlets and trump himself have been screaming about this? Whose orders are they waiting for to start the reinvestigation? Either reinvestigate or stop this nonsense.
Yale - you gotta slow your roll a bit bud. it's still underway - they just handed down indictments.
Metsman: I don't converse with whining toddler. Bring an adult to represent you with whom I can have decent conversation with.
Skippy,
Seriously, Hillary Clinton would use bleachbit to wipe out Amazon cloud? And Jeff bezos and Amazon allowed that? Oh! Hillary Clinton went to Mars and came back with the bleachbit technology to wipe out any cloud services!
You mean Mueller's indictments? If it's others' indictments related to DNC servers, then what were you crying about? These and that. If GOP have already reopened the case, what's the fuss about in the 1st place,Skippy? Why hurry and post long paragraphs and paragraphs about DNC/HRC, if an investigation is already underway?
"you gotta slow your roll a bit bud. it's still underway - they just handed down indictments"
Skippy, be patient and practice your statements daily so you don't forget that an investigation to DNC/HRC is already underway and not post your essay here. LOL
Ok - you realize whatever you do in one cloud tenancy doesn’t effect the entire cloud right? In addition that was on her personal mail servers which were physical in her bathroom of all places
There are different things at play
The criminal investigation into HRC is over but the investigation into the data breach continues. Depending what that turns up it could be reopened.
I just said to SD it’s got to play out
Skippy- Seriously? Do you know what's cloud tenancy in the 1st place? If Hillary could wipe her AWS space without Amazon unable to get a back up of it, I mean that's an amazing feat! She deserves a Nobel prize in IT. Tenancy just implies a space in the cloud server, if any third part security breach have happened, Amazon would have known. Security features and alert system are for entire cloud, not for 1 tenant. A cyber security feature for 1 customer/tenant provided by Amazon doesn't differ from other tenants. That's not how cloud works. It's just stupid to think HRC teams could just bleachbit her Amazon cloud space without the Amazon security team knowing it.
I’m fully aware of that - are you? But nobody is saying that - her email server and smashing of blackberries etc had nothing to do with the DNC breach. You brought that up with the bleach bloviation which is clear indication that you don’t have the slightest idea what you’re talking about.
I just gotta say you guys newd to prioritze
I mean you do lnow that Obama was President and Hillary was SoS?
I mean chasing Tillerson, Russian buddy that he is, is very low on my priorities.
Am I aware? Of course, I am,spent a few years working on it. Email server, again the word server. If she smashed her blackberry, why she isn't in jail yet for destroying evidences? I would celebrate with you if she goes to jail for destroying evidences. Still her call details and emails sent through blackberry can still be obtained. My argument is when the majority republicans don't act when they can, they don't have right to complain and crib and whine. That's why I say,let the investigation finished and stop complaining.
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/294465-cnn-anchor-stunned-that-clinton-aides-destroyed-phones-with
You tell me - it was not trumps DOJ yet. That happened. She was hosting her own BES. Call records can be but email not so much.
C'mon Skippy, (BES)BlackBerry Enterprise Server (BES) software. BES is a middleware application that wirelessly connects your BlackBerry to enterprise messaging and collaboration software like Microsoft Exchange, Outlook, Novell GroupWise. So, where does her emails reside? Outlook server or Microsoft exchange server whichever she uses. BES is just a middleware, doesn't serve as email server itself, but helps to connect to other email server. So, emails can always be retrieved because they sit on other email servers like Outlook or Microsoft exchange server.
She can't host BES because it's part of blackberry software like I can't host part of Android OS
How the BES Works
The BES is a very complex application, but its core functions are very simple.
An email message is sent to your account.
Your company's email server (e.g., Microsoft Exchange), receives the message, and your desktop email client (e.g., Outlook) receives the message.
The BlackBerry Enterprise Server compresses the message, encrypts it and sends it to your handset via the internet and your carrier's wireless network.
The handheld receives the message, decrypts it, decompresses it, and alerts the BlackBerry user.
https://www.lifewire.com/what-does-blackberry-enterprise-server-do-577201
And she had an exchange server and BES. This is all on the web. I know how BES works. Do you because you’re still posting irrelevant artifacts.
Search for stonetear on reddit - the infrastructure was described in detail
Anybody can download and install exchange server anywhere in Android,iOS and windows phone. Anybody who has blackberry has BES installed on their phones by default. OMG Hillary had both exchange server and BES on her phone!! Seriously? U still buy stupid controversy. Anyone with a login and password for exchange server can have their emails obtained/accessed by the FBI from the exchange server database. Hillary can't hack and erase her emails from the exchange servers
"SD where's all this Russian dirty dozen crap that was posted? I never saw any of it. I bet most people never saw any of it. No one influenced my decision except the candidates themselves."
So, you missed the part about Russians meddling, placing false information, etc. with 12 indictments handed down for meddling, 12 indictments handed down for the hack, and now one indictment handed down for Russian spy/NRA/Republican collusion.
"SD people like you won't rest until the decision of the American people is made invalid because your candidate lost. It's pathetic." First Mets, the American people selected Hillary; the American process selected the Don.. Second, I don't think you should call us pathetic, that's not nice. And third, no, we want to impeach Trump because he is in Putin's pocket and that's betrayal of the your trust and the American way.
We do it all for you.
You're welcome.
It will be over soon.
If it's Friday, it's Mueller time!
Trump has been tougher on Russia than Obama ever was.
Obama told the Russians to 'Cut it out' while at the same time ordering his IT hacker investigators to stand down on investigating the Russian interference/hacking attempts into our elections. Let that sink in for a minute.
Length not my fault --- Trump hired these guys.....
One of the things you seem to turn a blind eye to is this administration’s prevalent number of officials with financial ties to Russian. This does not prove collusion, but it does prove that our current government swamp has an extraordinary number of people making a living off Russia, many of them documented Russian lovers. They may not be currently working openly with Russia, or even each other on behalf of Russia, but IMO --- these optics alone suck.
It runs deep and here is just the top tier, abridged. For you with hardship on reading, here’s a pic for much of it: https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/03/connections-trump-putin-russia-ties-chart-flynn-page-manafort-sessions-214868
Trump has been to Russia a lot. Much Russian business done, much financing. Real estate: flipped a property for $50M profit, 200% return with zero improvements to a Ruskie. Russians have financed some of the Towers, they own others. They live in Trump Towers NYC. No one knows where Don get his money, but he pays in cash (who pays in cash?). Trump even revealed classified info to Russians in an impromptu PR oval office meeting (you want Hillary’s email to see if she mishandled classified…)
Trump, Jr. met with Syrian group backed by the Russians during the campaign, has said Dad sees “a lot of money pouring in from Russia," met with Russians to get “official documents and Hillary dirt from Russia’s Crown prosecutor, met with Russians to discuss adoptions (code word for sanctions).
Michael Flynn, Trump’s short-timer former National Security Advisor, said: “How do we combine the US national security strategy along with Russia’s national security strategy.” Has sat next to Putin for dinner in his work with Russia.
Jeff Sessions can’t even remember all the times he has met with the Russians.
Rex Tillerson, Trump’s former Secretary of State, worked with Russians for over 20 years, is friends with Putin, was awarded Russia’s Order of Friendship in 2013.
Wilbur Ross, Trump’s Secretary of Commerce, was top shareholder/ VP at Bank of Cyprus with deep Russian ties and investors. His VP peer at the bank was ex-KGB… Probably not a good guy.
Jared Kushner has financial ties to Russia to float his real estate endeavors. He bought 666, he’s confused.
Paul Manafort and the Uranium One deal, nuff said. Oye this guy is dirty.
George Papadopoulos, Trump Campaign foreign policy advisor, met an overseas professor to get Hillary "dirt" via stolen emails." Told everyone about talking to Russians, being able to set Trump/Putin meeting." A young go-getter….
Carter Page is a wannabee spy with deep ties to Gazprom, Russia’s state-owned gas company. He’s an idiot.
Roger Stone, former Trump advisor, involved in Russian backchannel, Wikileaks, Guccifer 2.0, nuff said. Not a good guy, but a very savvy guy.
Felix Sater, former Trump Organization advisor, Russian-born Bayrock associate has extensive involvement in organized crime. Tevfik Arif who founded Bayrock, a real estate group known to have many deals with Trump, had a 17-year career in the Soviet Ministry of Commerce and Trade. Deport both of them.
JD Gordon, Trump Campaign national security advisor, met with Russian Sergey Kislyak during the Republican National Convention, He said he would like to improve US/Russia relations. He’s changed the Republican platform to be PRO RUSSIAN, less pro-Ukraine – remember that. Trump supported.
You all seem to think I have a hard-on for Trump. That was the first warning you overlooked and that’s when I got serious. I know two things in this world: when Nixon added gold epaulets to the White House Security Staff Uniforms and when Trump outfitted the White House in gold --- it’s time to depose the King.
Michael Cohen, Trump’s lawyer during the campaign and in office. pursued Moscow Trump Tower with Trump-signed letter of intent signed DURING the campaign in 2016. After swearing in, Cohen proceeded to charge Russians for access to the President.
I don't know. I see a lot of campaign, a lot of people in office, and a lot of Russian ties.
But wait……there’s more and it gets worse. (play suspenseful music)
"First Mets, the American people selected Hillary; the American process selected the Don".
I assume you don't have a problem with the America process or do you?
Yale you are just being intentionally obtuse at this point.
SD lets review:
George Papadopoulos - lied about the timing and scope of his contact with Joseph Mifsud - who was not a Russian operative. This is the one guy who actually believed he was colluding and wasn't in all reality - misdemeanor false statement charge - this guy is primarily guilty of being a 28 year old moron.
Michael Flynn - turned states on a misdemeanor false statements charge for trying to work on foreign policy before the inauguration - total threat to society here. No proof Trump even knew about it - apparently was directed by Jared.
Manafort - tax issues / money laundering prior to campaign.
Rick Gates - charged with same offenses as Manafort - turned states, made a plea deal to roll on Manafort - misdemeanor false statement charge
13 Russian nationals and three Russian companies - conspiracy to commit wire fraud and bank fraud, and six counts of identity theft - will never see the inside of a court room.
Richard Pinedo: turned states on the above charges and received Identity theft charge
Alex van der Zwaan - misdemeanor false statement charge - apparently lied about contact with Manafort and gates
Konstantin Kilimnik - witness tampering for Manafort case
12 Russian GRU officers who will never see the inside of a courtroom.
No Americans have been charged with being witting participants in this Russian election interference effort - Drumpf is totally in for it now lol
Greyhawk: trump is so tough he is the first president to praise the Russian leader Putin is a very powerful,very powerful man and that if Mr Putin had strongly denied Russian hacking,then he must be right and entire US intelligence community is wrong.
Never knew trump was toughest on Putin that Putin made him wait like his dog for 1 hour
Skippy,
I am being technically reasonable but to people who love controversy it may sound obtuse. I am from technology background, so I know it's impossible to scrub/bleachbit the cloud server,let alone hack it and scrub it. And email server data can always be retrieved and our intelligence community have more expertise and tools to get everything out no matter how much the emails were bleached.
Ok - it’s an iron chassis - you may want to rethink your hypothesis
PRN logs indicate that Combetta deleted emails and installed BleachBit on March 31. On that same day, Combetta had a conference call with Mills and Kendall. (FBI Clinton File, Part 3, pp. 18–19.)
FBI interview on February 18, 2016 (FBI Clinton File, Part 3, pp. 14–20), the recalcitrant Combetta lied to the agents, falsely telling them he did not recall deleting the emails. He also refused to answer questions about his conversations with Clinton’s lawyers, particularly the March 25 and 31 conference calls.
https://vault.fbi.gov/hillary-r.-clinton/Hillary%20R.%20Clinton%20Part%2001%20of%2023/view
Skippy,
Do your homework. Don't keep spinning about the deleted email theory. Bleachedbit or not, I said they can be recovered and has been recovered as per this right winged news report.
FBI has recovered the emails, that's why twice the federal judges have thrown out doj's case to reopen the Hillary's email case because FBI have stated the emails have been recovered.
https://bigleaguepolitics.com/exclusive-maga-movement-finds-hillarys-deleted-emails-court-orders-released/
Bleachedbit creater himself says data can be recovered. That's how Peter and Lisa texts were recovered.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/bleachbit-creator-ex-fbi-experts-question-loss-of-peter-strzok-texts
There’s no disputing that - the whole point of this was that Hillary’s team destroyed evidence while under subpoena and Comey called it a “matter” and poor judgement
Skippy,
Wow, you are diverting the topic back to square one.
1)First you talked about Hillary deleting emails and all that criminals activities you said she did by deleting the emails.
My answer remains the same- impotent and weak GOP majority in house and Senate and REPUBLICAN president must reopen the case if they are sure she committed a crime or else shut up.
2)Second, you said GOP can't get back or subpoena deleted emails, from there you talked about deleted servers and BES and bleachbit
My answer for that also remains the same, data from servers,be it cloud or traditional servers can never be deleted and always be recovered and emails sent through phone can be recovered too, even if they have smashed the phones to pieces. The emails doesn't have anything to do with the phone from which they were sent.
So, you can keep spinning from 1 to 2 or 2 to 1, my answers are always same
"My answer remains the same- impotent and weak GOP majority in house and Senate and REPUBLICAN president must reopen the case if they are sure she committed a crime or else shut up."
Ditto the witch hunt on "russian collusion." It's been a year and half. How long are we supposed to wait? Another 2 years? If they had enough evidence to impeach, they would have done so by now. If by October they do not have enough to impeach, (saving it up for an "october surprise") then it will be painfully obvious they are just on a fishing expedition, they should also "shut up". That goes for CNN et al, too.
How long are they going to investigate? 3 years into Trump's 2nd term?
The tape of the Russian spy interviewing Trump on Russia with Trump parotting Putin’s desires is priceless.
The cozy pic with NRA President peopy lepew is a keeper too
You can’t even make this stuff up. Who would believe it.
At least till midterms lol.
I know Yale because you’re intentionally being obtuse and ignoring the point
JR: Why don't you telephone Mueller or rod Rosenstein and ask them? I don't work in DOJ, I can't answer that. Trump's been in office for 2 years now, still talking about DNC server, Hillary's emails. His party is majority in house,senate and he handpicked Christopher wray and Jeff sessions,but all he and foxnews could do is cry, whine and cry for last 2 years. Maybe he will cry for next remaining 2 years more and then blame the democrats? Maybe he better hire Putin to investigate Hillary and DNC while he has time
SD,
How about the "cozy pic" of Obama and Putin? Or Schumer and Putin? Or Hillary and Putin?
You got nothing. Maybe someday you will, but right now, you got nothing. If the midterms come and go and there's no impeachment, it's over (especially if the republicans continue holding control of both houses).
November can't get here soon enough. Just so this nonsense can end, and you guys can move on to something even more ludicrous. I notice no one "cares" about the immigrant children anymore since the Putin summit... hmm....
Skippy,
You are ignorant about technology, the moment you mentioned about deleted email and servers, I felt arguing with a controversy loving person is useless. I mean what can I say, I have work with servers- traditional and cloud and I know data can't be just deleted forever. Tried my best to explain to someone who doesn't want to even look at what's what. I gave you a link where your so called bleachedbit creator says it's possible to recover data deleted through bleachedbit and gave you another right winged media link where it's been recently stated all Hillary's deleted emails have been recovered, still you are hell-bent in living in alternate world of controversy and lies. Good luck. I said what I had to say.
There’s an indictment, she’s been remanded I believe. There’s a Russian spy, NRA, Republicans and now, sex.
Keep the faith, you are a real loyal Trump fan.
But soon you will realize that a government full kf Russian sympathizers led by a man surrounded by Russians most of his life who won the election supported by Russian meddling is not in America’s best intetest.
We approach end game.
The kids ain’t all right, they are still there, we ate waiting for the next courr deadline.
And yes, that’s Trump’s forte, bigger, badder, one, just keep the ball moving.
Did you like the summit lie replaced by the one word lie then returned to the original lie. The suckers keep lapping it up. He’s amazing.
How anyone can not see the clear and present danger of this moron is beyond belief! And don’t ask how- he’s Putin’s puppet. He cannot criticize him- why not? He criticizes EVERYONE else, his own people and country! That’s more than just trying to get along or have a dialogue. One can disagree and be critical and have a discussion. The answer is obvious- he’s in Putin’s pocket somehow. Perhaps he is afraid for himself and his family. Whatever the case he is not defending the U.S like he should. Russia is continuing to attack us via cyber methods as well as playing the long game with sleeper agents and what are we doing? Separating children from their parents at the border. I feel so much safer now don’t you? NOT! Don’t count on Congress to save us either.
Omg, the investigation continues. What, mueller is supposed to leap to the end before going through logical methodical steps? I don’t believe he’s just stretching it out for political reasons. Ken Starr did that. Mueller hs produced indictments and guilty pleas! He’s working his way through the maze. And thank god is all I can say. He’s not on television stirring up controversy he’s just working the case. I do hope he does wrap it up soon though. It seems like every time he might be close that something else pops up like a new connection to Russia. But there’s nothing to see here folks. Let’s talk about Hillary’s emails some more while the fox (moron) is in the hen house!
"but all he and foxnews could do is cry, whine and cry for last 2 years. "
Pot meet kettle? Shall I list all the things the left has been crying about since the election?
"He’s amazing."
He is amazing.... in his effect on the democrat party, making them so unhinged they reveal themselves for who they truly are. Same for the media, giving them agita like I've never seen before. It's been a joy to watch.
"What, mueller is supposed to leap to the end before going through logical methodical steps? I don’t believe he’s just stretching it out for political reasons. Ken Starr did that. Mueller hs produced indictments and guilty pleas! He’s working his way through the maze. And thank god is all I can say."
Right, right... Mueller is a hero, Starr was a demon. Got it.
And BTW, that's "God".
I liken you to fiddling while Rome is burning. Nice, JR. No one will mistake you for a patriot.
"No one will mistake you for a patriot."
You mean no one will mistake me for a sheep.
Obama said "the 80s called and they want their foreign policy back, the cold war ended 20 years ago", but TRUMP is the bad guy. Got it.
Your problem is, you actually think "Rome is burning"... because that's what CNN et al is telling you, and you believe them. I had the same problem during Obama's terms. But after living through (and paying attention to) Clinton, Bush, Obama, and now Trump.... I've learned. Hopefully you will too, someday.
“It's been a joy to watch” See? That little quote indicates how Trump has divided this country, or at least let it out of the gate. A joy? More like total dismay that people actually get pleasure from unrest. I understand JR was talking about the “fake” real facts(CNN,PBS,AP,plus many more), as opposed to “real honest opinions”(Fox).
Dictators get the public to distrust the media, our government, our future and our neighbors. Even some older folks, who have lived through some pretty scary times, are saying that they’ve never seen anything like Trump’s futile attempt at running America....or did cutie Putie take over that part? Trump loves nicknames..except when it comes to Putin, hence the “cutie”. Divide and conquer. Hmmmm.....I wonder who is laughing at us, now. Trump’s a little jealous that Kim-Jong is around his sons ages and running a country. That’s why he’s been attending dictator school. Could one imagine America stuck with Trump(s), for life?! Oh...joy, joy joy. The prepper shows, should be starting up again, soon. This is some scary sh#t.
Putin’s got really damaging dirt on Trump. Like RAS pointed out, Trump loves making fun of any adversaries, but loves stroking Putin’s...whatever. Putin’s been nothing but smiles. They both love a good stroking, huh?
I made a little ditty for Trump. How much would would a woodchuck chuck ,if a woodchuck could chuck would? That’s what closed captioning looks like, attempting to copy Trump’s master of the English language. Sorry... I meant wood’nt. Hiz speling neadz work, two.
" I understand JR was talking about the “fake” real facts(CNN,PBS,AP,plus many more), as opposed to “real honest opinions”(Fox).
Dictators get the public to distrust the media, our government, our future and our neighbors."
Actually, Fox is guilty as well. I don't mention them because I know you guys don't watch Fox. Plus, there's only ONE Fox: up against CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, ABC, PBS... interestingly, Fox still has higher ratings than CNN by far... actually, HG TV and the Food Network have higher ratings than CNN lol.
Dictators get the public to TRUST (their controlled) media, the (out-of-control) govt, and in the (dismal and ill-advised) future. Just ask any holocaust survivor.
I watch Fox, also. I like to see their spins. Occasionally Fox does say something anti-Trump, but it’s rare. I’ve got relatives, holocaust survivors, and they see a dictatorship, in the making, regarding Trump. I love picking their brains. They’ve been to hell and back. Their diverse knowledge of politics is very interesting. JR, I agree with your last statement. Adding “their controlled” and “ out-of-control” puts yet another perspective on all this hoopla.
Why did Obama grant citizenship to a Russian operative/spy? Butina was born in Barnaul, Altai Krai, Russia, on November 10, 1988.
Was it a lack of vetting by the Obama admin that let her in here?
"Your problem is, you actually think "Rome is burning"... because that's what CNN et al is telling you, and you believe them. I had the same problem during Obama's terms." And you think this is some sort of shining light on the hill?
If you think this is more of the same like the last 4 or 5 Presidents , pot meets kettle, Hillary is worse, a mirror-image of Obama or other Democratic President, then I am sorry for you.
It is not the same.
The President in Putin's pocket. His fortunes built on Russian investment. His administration filled with Russian sympathizers. Knee deep in scandals, he hires Russian sympathizer incompetents, fires by tweet, his administration is a revolving door of incompetence. He does not implement well, can't defeat ObamaCare, took five tries on his Muslim ban, mistakenly put 3,000 kids in jail, and so on and so on.
You say you are not a sheep but yet support this tax plan as some sort of better-than-Reagan dream when the reality is that it's just a gift package to business and the rich netting Trump himself a cool $3B in inheritance tax relief. Who's the sheep to swallow that one.
You say its the same but we currently have CharityGate, InnaugerationFundsLostGate, VetDonationGate, GroperGate, TrumpFoundationGate, RussiaMeddlingGate, PutinPocketGate, the new SexSpyGate, CohenCashforAccessGate, StormyHushMoneyForSexGate, ObstructionComeyFiringGate, TaxPayerFundsMisusePrewitGate, and the list goes on and on.
We have the highest administration turnover in history, remember the dawning of Flynn, the in and out of Scaramangler, Manafort hear today/gone today, the fleeting of all Hope, Melania in a Tower, Melania in a hotel, Melania wearing a terrible sign-board, at least with clothes this time. We have more EOs, less legislation, than ever, hail to the King. We have more "summer WhiteHouses that we pay to harden, more travel $$$ than ever, more vacation than any President. We gave the NK more than we got. We bend over to Vlad. We ignore the crisis in Central America and focus on locking up the refugees instead. We piss on Canada. We piss on Germany. We piss on England. England...….
And now we place an inexperienced, incompetent Russian sympathizer as second in line to be able to fire Mueller.
You claim FOX is the better truth because they have higher ratings. Yeah, more sheep makes the Shepard truthful.
No JR, this isn't the same. This isn't Clinton, This isn't Bush, This isn't Obama --- by far. This isn't even Nixon. This is something completely different, and it is not better.
" I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again
Don't get fooled again
No, no!" (the who, of course)
Please don't be fooled again JR. Pick up your guitar and pray, you don't get fooled again. Someone once said: "and FWIW, as some of you probably still aren't getting my point, I'm not defending Trump or excusing his actions (which actions are good or bad are of course purely opinion)." Let it go JR, let it flow.
"I watch CNN, also. I like to see their spins. Occasionally CNN does say something PRO-Trump, but it’s rare."
Are you getting it yet?
who granted her citizenship?? russian-national-charged-conspiracy-act-agent-russian-fede...
3 days ago - Maria Butina, 29, a Russian citizen residing in Washington D.C.
Lol... it's not the same?
And then you post song lyrics from *1971* to show that it's different *now*?
Sounds like everyone has been "fooled" going on 50 years now...
Please someone give me a link to prove that Ms Butina was granted citizenship by American govt. As far as it's stated in media, she is on student visa and is presently a Russian citizen and Russian consulate in the US is trying to get access to her.
OMG you Trump haters need meds... What is this the 1950's again and communism hysteria... And SD the process for electing a President has been the same for 230 years... Hillary only won the popular vote because of California. You take that state out and Trump won the popular vote. If she couldn't win with a state that supplies 55 electoral votes then her campaign was poorly run. She ignored the battleground states and that is why she lost. It had nothing to do with Russia. The founding fathers were brilliant in their method of picking a president. If it went by popular vote, California would be deciding the elections every time out. Given the fact that every state has it's own laws, the system is fair. We're 50 little countries united as a republic.
As someone said, it will be decided at the midterms or before. Either we get the super majority to impeach by Patriots, or we will be silenced on way or another.
The dynamics, IMO, start with that the impeachment reality show is not a legal proceeding, it's a popularity contest ---- high crimes and misdemeanors --- what are those? Until there is a super majority, the Trump Republican party wall will not waver. We saw a wobbling with the Putin treasonous debacle, but it was shored up with a word. Trump has waged a good, yet strange, PR battle combined with pain for those who show discomfort or disagreement
We have contestant Boris-Karloff-Mueller who will not jump until he is sure he will stick the landing. He will investigate until it stops producing results. He has PLENTY of results: 32 of them as I type, with Cohen, FoundationGate, Stormy and SexSpyGate as side dishes. BUT Mueller protects the office of the President, not Trump, but the office and he will not publicize Trump's deeds of betrayal until forced, IMO.
We have contestant Trump who has made a career coming back from the dead. A marketing Lazarus, this amazing ability is in his DNA. He is his own true believer that he can pull this one out, even though he knows what Mueller knows. Mueller has seen the taxes, he's gotten many to talk, he knows the finances, the history, the connections, and the campaign and beyond.
Then we have the audience vote which is crucial for the reality show popularity contest known as impeachment. With a given 30% positive ratings from unshakeable fan base, it's a harder wall to crack than the Congress. Groping women didn't crack it (no pun intended), diddling porn stars didn't crack it (ditto on the bad pun), stealing charity didn't crack it, defrauding poor students didn't crack it, Scaramangler didn't crack it, nepotism didn't crack it, locking up 3,000 kids didn't crack it and now bend over to Putin is shored up with a word. Even going back on that word within 24 hours didn't crack it. JR still believes. Fans are tough to shake loose.
IMO that's the dynamics at play. So Mueller keeps pealing back the onion hoping Trump will do the right thing for the sake of the office. Republicans continue to cower because the Fan base will not waver. Trump, through Ghouliani, continues his PR campaign to win the popularity contest, or at least break a supermajority needed to impeach. And the public watches, some in disbelief at others just do not see this man for what he has always been --- a masterful huckster, but a huckster all the same.
Skippy - You state "misdemeanor" when lying to federal agents is a felony.
The list of indictments you copied is also out of date. Manafort has two separate sets of charges. One is taking the money from the Russians and turning it into even more with illegal bank fraud. The other is influence peddling a campaign position, which was supposed to turn into a government appointment but never did.
Papadopoulos lied a about who in the campaign he told, and also lied about meetings he had. The timing was critical because initially the time frame was all wrong for any possible wrong doing. The guilty plea corrected that and placed it after the emails were taken, and before that was publicly revealed. Mifsud claims not to be an operative, but he himself said he introduced both "unofficial and official channels" to Papadopoulos. Mifsud also hired his fiance for three months even though she's commented she doesn't know what she was doing there. Whether naive or not, the guy was trying his best to collude. And Mifsud sure looks like he was trying to groom *after* he found out Papadopoulos position in the campaign. It's only a matter of whether he succeeded or not. He was American, witting, and trying very hard at it.
Characterizing Flynn as just "trying to work on foreign policy" doesn't seem right. That would be something like he placed a call to ask questions to formulate "policy". Flynn fielded the ambassador's call and was conducting government business about what it would take to end Magnitsky.
On a different subject - the USB virus was supposedly introduced onto a local PC, not a server. They used that to poke around and get into the AWS snapshot archive. You don't really need much else at that point. You not only can get the who set of all computers, you can check them over a period of time.
Also Maria Butina is a Russian citizen.
Greyhawk is trying his different original spin about Maria Butina being an american citizen granted by Obama.
If she was even dual citizenship, why would the Russians try desperately to get consular access to her? Because she has only 1 citizenship- Russian. This is original spin courtesy grey hawk.
"As someone said, it will be decided at the midterms or before. Either we get the super majority to impeach by Patriots, or we will be silenced on way or another. "
ROFLMAO. You're not seriously expecting (or even hoping for) a "blue wave", are you?
Don't be fooled by the loud minority outrage being fueled by the MSM. You should listen to me- I've been there- fooled by the loud minority outrage fueled by Fox and conservative talk radio back in 2012.
IDK if the republicans will retain control of both houses or not, but I CAN tell you it's not going to be a blue wave giving the democrats a super majority.
I think the status quo will remain. Why would there be a blue wave when the economy is doing well... And look at San Francisco and the insanity they are proposing there. They are trying to make it legal for illegal immigrants who aren't even supposed to be here in the first place, to vote. If that's the type of crazy behavior the Left wants to push on the rest of the country, then no way are they going to win seats.
I had read a news report that stated she was a naturalized American citizen, that report has since been corrected, she is a Russian citizen living\working here on a student visa. Are student visas still valid for 29 year olds?
Anyway it was Obama's minions who let the Russian spy slip in here, they were asleep at the switch. That's be ob Clapper's and Brennan's watch. No surprise they try and shift blame from their own malfeasance and transfer it to someone else. Neither one of them can be believed, they both are guilty of lying to federal officials which makes guilty of a felony violation of the law, they know it and are running scared as well they should.
Greyhawk:Verify your facts before posting! And student visa was given for master's degree, she qualified and was given. Why do you blame Obama? Do Obama or CBP/USCIS know who are spies and who are not? Do russians come to the US with a spy tag on their forehead? Atleast FBI caught her, who knows they may have known her as a sleeper cell unit and let her in to track her activity or even if they didn't know who she was, investigation related to NRA may have let to her arrest. It's time to include Russia in the Trump's Muslim ban list.
Have you been outside today? It’s absolutely beautiful. Get some fresh air and enjoy it. Let’s all agree that politicians are corrupt on both sides. Both parties represent the extremists these days and the media is biased. But most importantly, if you’re over 15, you should be banned from using song lyrics to try and prove your point.
Have a lovely day.
TheYale it's not a muslim ban when Indonesia and other muslim countries aren't on the list. You are pretty much CNN's mouthpiece. Don't tell Greyhawk to verify his facts when you make a claim like that...
Virtue signaling, is that the only play that the absurd leftists have open to them? (yawn, so very tired of them gnashing their teeth over nonsense)
Quoted from two different posters above who mistakenly believe they hold the moral high-ground.
'" . . . you’re not the patriot I think you are. . . " ; . . . and neither are you, you're not the patriot you think you are. . . . There you go, fixed it for ya'.
". . . No one will mistake you for a patriot. . . . " ; . . . and no one will mistake you for one either, you're just not the patriot you think you are . . . There you go, fixed it for ya'.
"But most importantly, if you’re over 15, you should be banned from using song lyrics to try and prove your point."
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Suze, I am already outside. Yup you are right political parties are corrupt but Mr Trump is not your typical politician,he is a dealmaker who can sell anything he deem profitable to him and he made the best deal of his life- sell out America to Putin!
What a nice day... Enjoy...
Metsman: whatever you call that list of banned countries, time to include Russia
"Why do you blame Obama?" - - because Obama stopped his security team from investigating the hacking done by the Russians on his watch. Obama knew about the tampering attempts and ordered his security teams to 'Stand down'.
President Trump on the other hand has issued more sanctions on Russia than Obama ever did. Our president has been much tougher on Putin and the Russians than Obama ever was.
Obama let them get away with it cleanly, and you guys give him a complete pass on it. Trump is not letting them get away with and you guys blindly refuse to acknowledge that fact.
"It had nothing to do with Russia." You know you can't prove that just like I can't prove it does. What with do know is Russian meddled to support Trump and defeat Hillary. Ask Vlad who just said during the Summit presser, did you want Trump to win: "yes." A comrade obvious moment if there ever was one. So, Don was supported by Russia --- that's just a fact now.
"Anyway it was Obama's minions who let the Russian spy slip in here, they were asleep at the switch." Yes, this is sort correct; but I think you minimize the blame. For one, we don't know how long the FBI has been tracking; I haven't see it but know the investigation was started during Obama in early 2015, at least.... Like Operation Ghost Stories, you know the Peter Strzok amazing spy investigation lasted 10 years. In that one, the Ruskies couldn't tell they were being eavesdropped on, couldn't tell FBI had been in their house rifling through all the papers; it's an amazing piece of work from our top Russian spy hunter (fire that guy for some pillow talk puffery).
So it started on Obama's watch, as did the investigation, but the Americans involved are NRA and Republicans, so far. And that is NOT Obama's fault; it's theirs. Not to be crude, but have you seen pictures of an NRA convention? Or this Republican consultant. Call me rude, but did they really think sexing up this 29-year old, cute, Ruskie, was free love?
Did Obama let the spy corrupt the NRA? I mean did Obama let the NRA think Russia has a gun rights group? The NRA might fall for that from a sexy 29-year old with an accent offering sex, but would they fall for that from Obama? The NRA even visited Russia with this...person.
Did Obama get the Republicans to trade favors, influence for sex?
Did Obama make the Republican consultant live with her?
Did Obama let this spy infiltrate the Republican party?
You just can't imagine writing this stuff and having anyone believe you. And how JR can say it's just more of the same is amazing even if you count Weiner. I mean he's saying thank you for taking his spot in the hall of fame for stupid people.
Greyhawk: did those two angry robots Sean and Tucker told you that on Fox news!?? Lol....haha.. funniest joke ever heard - Obama stopped Russian hacking investigation!? It was all investigated through out Obama's presidency till now. The intelligence community reached these conclusion after these years of long investigation! Trump NEVER EVER DIRECTED HOW TO HANDLE OR EVEN MENTIONED WHAT TO DO ABOUT RUSSIAN HACKING ACCORDING TO TESTIMONY OF HIS FBI DIRECTOR CHRISTOPHER WRAY! He doesn't acknowledge even the fact that Russia hacked election and is actively trying now! For that he deserves a Nobel prize for being the best leader of the world. Trump never voluntarily issued sanction against Russia like how Obama did it volutarily. Trump was forced by the senate! You have no shame to lie, greyhawk! Can Obama stop Russian hacking with his bare hands? What do you mean he let them get away cleanly? Trump was the one who asked Russia to hack Hillary, they did hack both DNC and RNC as per Mueller, but they leaked only DNC? Because Obama investigated we reach this conclusion, during the last lag of campaign, when WikiLeaks were leaking all types of documents, the intelligence agencies and media were all pointing to Russia, and who was the president? Obama! Which planet were you on then? Oh! Fauxnews!
"Mr Trump is not your typical politician"
Which is one of the reasons he got elected. I've been saying it since the primaries.
"Angry robots" on the left:
Hillary
Joy Behar
Rachel Maddow
Jon Stewart
Chris Cuomo
Chuck Schumer
Nancy Pelosi
Donna Brazil
Elizabeth Warren
Christiane Amanpour
Jimmy Kimmel
Maxine Waters
Stephen Colbert
...I could go on, but I think that's plenty.
Is somebody dissing my g-g-generation?
Why don't you all f-f-f-fade away?
Good idea about the sunshine. Seen it, felt it, was iphoning in it, and now back to it!
But before I go: did you hear the one about the Ruskie, the NRA, and the Republican.....hey, I'm not trying to 'cause a big s-s-sensation.....
"Which is one of the reasons he got elected. I've been saying it since the primaries."
With the help of Russia, WikiLeaks and stupidparty
He just sold the intelligence community to Russia, Putin must be too happy that Trump gave the intelligence community on a platter for free.
We didn’t need Russia to know about Hillary’s email BS. Comey himself said she was irresponsible. We didn’t need Russia to know about the Benghazi situation. We didn’t need Russia to know she shamed victims of her husband. She was a part of the Uranium one deal that gave Russia a bunch of our uranium. We didn’t need Russia to know she had no message during her campaign. But yea lets keep blaming Russia for her losing. If that makes you lefties feel better…
This will probably take several posts due to length. I did not write it. But you should read it. You won't like it, but that's how you learn.
To all the people who let this election break up families and friends let this sink in I think the last civil conversations we had occurred just days before November 8, 2016. You were supremely confident Hillary Clinton would win the presidential election; you voted for her with glee. As a lifelong Republican, I bit down hard and cast my vote for Donald Trump. Then the unimaginable happened. He won.
And you lost your freaking minds.
I knew you would take the loss hard—and personally—since all of you were super jacked-up to elect the first woman president. But I did not imagine you would become totally deranged, attacking anyone who voted for Trump or supported his presidency as a racist, sexist, misogynistic, homophobic Nazi-sympathizer.
The weirdness started on social media late on Election Night, as it became clear Hillary was going to lose. A few of you actually admitted that you were cradling your sleeping children, weeping, wondering what to tell your kindergartner the next morning about Trump’s victory. It continued over the next several days. Some of you seriously expressed fear about modern-day concentration camps. Despite living a privileged lifestyle, you were suddenly a casualty of the white patriarchy. Your daughters were future victims; your sons were predators-in-waiting. You threatened to leave Facebook because you could no longer enjoy the family photos or vacation posts from people who, once friends, became Literal Hitlers to you on November 8 because they voted for Donald Trump.
I admit I was a little hurt at first. The attacks against us Trump voters were so personal and so vicious that I did not think it could be sustained. I thought maybe you would regain your sanity after some turkey and egg nog.
But you did not. You got worse. And I went from sad to angry to where I am today: Amused.
As the whole charade you have been suckered into over the last 18 months starts to fall apart—that Trump would not survive his presidency; he would be betrayed by his own staff, family, and/or political party; he would destroy the Republican Party; he would be declared mentally ill and removed from office; he would be handcuffed and dragged out of the White House by Robert Mueller for “colluding” with Russia—let me remind you what complete fools you have made of yourselves. Not to mention how you’ve been fooled by the media, the Democratic Party, and your new heroes on the NeverTrump Right.
On November 9, you awoke from a self-induced, eight-year-long political coma to find that White House press secretaries shade the truth and top presidential advisors run political cover for their boss. You were shocked to discover that presidents exaggerate, even lie, on occasion. You became interested for the first time about the travel accommodations, office expenses, and lobbyist pals of administration officials. You started counting how many rounds of golf the president played. You suddenly thought it was fine to mock the first lady now that she wasn’t Michelle Obama. Once you removed your pussy hat after attending the Women’s March, you made fun of Kellyanne Conway’s hair, Sarah Sanders’ weight, Melania Trump’s shoes, Hope Hicks’ death stare; you helped fuel a rumor started by a bottom-feeding author that U.N. Ambassador Nikki Haley slept with Donald Trump. You thought it was A-OK that Betsy DeVos was nearly physically assaulted and routinely heckled. You glorified a woman who has sex on camera for a paycheck.
You have learned all kinds of new things that those of us who didn’t willfully ignore politics for the past eight years already knew. For example, we already knew that illegal immigrants were being deported and families were being separated.
Some of your behavior has been kinda cute. It was endearing to watch you become experts on the Logan Act, the Hatch Act, the Second Amendment, the 25th Amendment, and the Emoluments Clause. You developed a new crush on Mitt Romney after calling him a “sexist” for having “binders full of women.” You longed for a redux of the presidency of George W. Bush, a man you once wanted imprisoned for war crimes. Ditto for John McCain. You embraced people like Bill Kristol and David Frum without knowing anything about their histories of shotgunning the Iraq War.
Classified emails shared by Hillary Clinton? Who cares! Devin Nunes wanting to declassify crucial information of the public interest? Traitor!
But your newfound admiration and fealty to law enforcement really has been a fascinating transformation. Wasn’t it just last fall that I saw you loudly supporting professional athletes who were protesting police brutality by kneeling during the national anthem? Remember how you fanboyed a mediocre quarterback for wearing socks that depicted cops as pigs?
But now you sound like paid spokesmen for the Fraternal Order of Police. You insist that any legitimate criticism of the misconduct and possibile criminality that occured at the Justice Department and FBI is an “attack on law enforcement.” While you once opposed the Patriot Act because it might have allowed the federal government to spy on terrorists who were using the local library to learn how to make suitcase bombs, you now fully support the unchecked power of a secret court to look into the phone calls, text messages and emails of an American citizen because he volunteered for the Trump campaign for a few months.
Spying on terrorists, circa 2002: Bad. Spying on Carter Page, circa 2017: The highest form of patriotism.
And that white, male patriarchy that you were convinced would strip away basic rights and silence any opposition after Trump won? That fear has apparently been washed away as you hang on every word uttered by James Comey, John Brennan, and James Clapper. This triumvirate is exhibit “A” of the old-boy network, and represents how the insularity, arrogance, and cover-your-tracks mentality of the white-male power structure still prevails. Yet, instead of rising up against it, you are buying their books, retweeting their Twitter rants and blasting anyone who dares to question their testicular authority. Your pussy hat must be very sad.
But your daily meltdowns about Trump-Russia election collusion have been the most entertaining to observe. After Robert Mueller was appointed as Special Counsel, you were absolutely convinced it would result in Trump’s arrest and/or impeachment. Some of you insisted that Trump wouldn’t last beyond 2017. You quickly swallowed any chum tossed at you by the Trump-hating media on MSNBC, the New York Times and the Washington Post about who was going down next, or who would flip on the president.
For the past year, I have watched you obsess over a rotating cast of characters: Paul Manafort, Donald Trump, Jr., Jared Kushner, Carter Page, Reince Priebus, Jeff Sessions, Michael Flynn, Steve Bannon, Sam Nunberg, and Hope Hicks are just a few of the people you thought would turn on Trump or hasten his political demise. But when those fantasies didn’t come true, you turned to Michael Avenatti and Stormy Daniels for hope and inspiration. It will always be your low point.
Well, I think it will be. Each time I believe you’ve hit bottom, you come up with a new baseline. Perhaps defending the unprecedented use of federal power to spy on political foes then lie about it will the next nail in your credibility coffin.
The next several weeks will be tough for you. I think Americans will learn some very hard truths about what happened in the previous administration and how we purposely have been misled by powerful leaders and the news media. I wish I could see you as a victim here, but you are not. I know you are smart; you chose to support this insurgency with your eyes wide open.
Now, I shall sit back and enjoy your pain.
JR: Civility ended the day trump ran his campaign and opened his mouth- all the filth that could ever come out of human overflowed. Family and friends split from then on. Trump voters are against name calling but don't mind trump name calling people. What a good way to teach trump is a role model.
Nobody is here to read a book JR!
To make it short- Comey,Assange, WikiLeaks and Russia flipped the ELECTION for Trump!
Trump personally requested Russia to get Hillary emails.
This is how the world sees it and how history will remember trump and his victory! The name trump will always be associated with Russia and Putin
Great post JR! +1, +2 and a big +3, those three posts totally nail it,
JR is absolutely right, and Yale couldn't resist proving his point within minutes. The hate-machine just keeps rolling miserably along. Good job Yale.
Greyhawk: how old are you? You sound like trumpbabyblimp now! Lying and immaturity are also traits of trump baby.
Trump can't get wait to invite Putin in his bed, 2 hours meeting Putin alone was not enough, he is already planning to come over and spend "alone" time with him.
What was that you said greyhawk? Trump is toughest president on Russia?
Putin made him wait like his dog for 1 hour and trump praised Putin as very,very powerful man. Trump doesn't think he is powerful like Putin,he is very happy praising Putin without receiving any reciprocal praise from Putin. Trump made sure he met with Putin alone to avoid leaks,he won't even tell the Americans about what they discussed in the 2 hours and wouldn't confront the Russians when the russians leaked about the meeting. If this is toughness, Putin has raised a good dog.
Don't worry Yale, the Democrats want to subpoena the translator to tell them exactly what was discussed at their meeting. Woof, Woof.
Yale - since you’re the self appointed HL cyber security and cloud adoption czar.
https://youtu.be/e26TjLmKdyo
Here’s a link to the Multiple times Trump called Russia out on meddling.
Do you honestly believe that this is the first time a foreign nation seekied to influence an election, and every election before this one? Why is this a total shock as if they just invented fire?
We bragged about doing it ourselves in 2001 with the Russians.
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/united-states/2018-03-12/us-hypocritical-criticize-russian-election-meddling
State sponsored cyber attacks are constantly underway every second of every day with people operating from every developed country.
a breach of 22 million names and private data breached by the Chinese, no one even bats an eye.
Putin got the message, BIGLY from Trump's actions.
Trump:
•publicly called out Russian election meddling over 8 times
•significantly increased sanctions on Russia
•put sanctions on Russian oligarchs and banks aligned with Putin
•kicked out 60 Russian diplomats
•launched missiles in Syria
•significantly increased USA defense spending
•sent offensive weapons to Ukraine
•is putting pressure on Germany to cancel the Russian natural gas deal
Obama:
•gave away 20% of USA uranium to Putin
•drew a line in the sand in Syria and did nothing
•did nothing when Putin took Crimea
•prior to the election told the public there was no election meddling
•prior to the election told his own intel agencies to stand down from investigating Russian election meddling
Want to talk about the numerous times Obama met alone with Putin or when he got caught in a hot microphone promising leeway after his election?
Your bias is readily apparent but the fact that you can’t hold a conversation without personal attacks reflects poorly on both tour position and your personal character
From kB...”Don't worry Yale, the Democrats want to subpoena the translator to tell them exactly what was discussed at their meeting. Woof, Woof.”
Just Democrats? Well, I guess that implies that Democrats want to know what’s going on and the republicans just don’t give a rat’s butt. Taking anything that comes out of Trump’s mouth, at face value, is a big gamble. Everyone, right, middle, left or upside down should know what our president is saying and doing.....especially with Putin or Kim-Jong. Trump’s supposed to keep OUR intel classified, instead of secret meetings with the very people that our intelligence people don’t trust. The whole thing is just weird.
What happened to the original Trump threads, that were started here? This thread is good reading, but some of us (myself, included), go on and off topic, and discuss other politics. Remember Trump 1.0 and so on?
Yale keeps demonstrating how unhinged the left has become, the illogical, far based emotionally driven personal attacks fall flat of their own weight.
quoted from JRs post above and thanks to the author, Julie Kelly, (link to her spot on piece is below):
"To all the people who let this election break up families and friends let this sink in I think the last civil conversations we had occurred just days before November 8, 2016. You were supremely confident Hillary Clinton would win the presidential election; you voted for her with glee. Then the unimaginable happened. He won.
And you lost your freaking minds.
I knew you would take the loss hard—and personally—since all of you were super jacked-up to elect the first woman president. But I did not imagine you would become totally deranged, attacking anyone who voted for Trump or supported his presidency as a racist, sexist, misogynistic, homophobic Nazi-sympathizer."
https://amgreatness.com/2018/05/30/dear-ex-friends-in-the-resistance/
Yale, you typify the deranged democrats who are still reeling after losing the election, you have never progressed past that night and lash out with irrational vitriol. You should read more, it's a good thing. As Skippy has clearly and unequivocally detailed above, Trump has been demonstrably tougher on Putin and Russia than Obama ever was.
and quoted from the linked story "But I did not imagine you would become totally deranged, attacking anyone who voted for Trump or supported his presidency as a racist, sexist, misogynistic, homophobic Nazi-sympathizer." - - - - I feel sorry for you and several other posters on this forum who consciously choose to behave this way. You do know that's wrong, don't you?
There’s no point in this discussion anymore. You refuse to see what’s right in front of you until Mueller lays it out for you in spades. I don’t give a hoot about what anyone else did in the past because the only thing that matters right now is what the moron is doing. Hopefully we’ll still have a republic left by the time the investigation is finished.
"It's because many Americans are fed up with the good-cop-bad-cop, hypocritical, 2-party system BS." Jeff do you really think that he is doing anything to mitigate that? If anything, this BS has escalated to an incredible degree - he fosters, foments and encourages it!
Just speak any politician's name in public and the spewing of anger begins - this country is coming apart with the explosion of the "good-cop_bad-cop, hypocritcal, 2-party BS...
rleaf "There’s no point in this discussion anymore. "
You got that right...
"It's because many Americans are fed up with the good-cop-bad-cop, hypocritical, 2-party system BS." Jeff do you really think that he is doing anything to mitigate that? If anything, this BS has escalated to an incredible degree - he fosters, foments and encourages it!
I never said Trump is "fixing" the 2-party system; I said the corrupt 2-party system is what helped him get elected (remember- he's not REALLY a republican; he was a life-long democrat, and even the GOP did not want him to win the primary.) Trump is a populist- he said what the people wanted to hear, and he is trying to make good on his campaign promises. He is closer to a populist that anything else. Altho, since winning, he's obviously aligned more with the GOP, which he will have to do at least some if he wants them to help him fulfill his promises.
As far as WHO is creating and fueling the divide- sorry, it's mostly the left this time around. The long article I posted demonstrate that quite well.
"this country is coming apart with the explosion of the "good-cop_bad-cop, hypocritcal, 2-party BS..."
You got that right. Only one way to solve it- either vote 3rd party or at least pull your party back from the fringes of sanity to something more moderate (both parties actually, but right now it's the left that has lost their collective minds, electing socialists, inciting violence, wishing for the president's death, etc)
I'm actually surprised some lunatic leftist/socialist/communist hasn't made an assassination attempt yet (seriously)
RAS you can't have it both ways. You can't say screw what past presidents did and then call Trump out for the same things. That's the definition of a hypocrite which people on the Left are. I believe there's a scripture that says 'pull the rafter from your own eye before you pull the splinters from your brothers'... The Left is spewing the hate, it isn't Trump. Calling politicians playful names like Pocahontas or Crooked Hillary or Crying Chuck is hardly hate compared with Maxine Waters calling for impeachment and anarchy against Trump supporters or wackos ripping MAGA hats off kids and throwing a soda in their face or a group of black people torturing a white Trump supporter in Chicago. It's people like you and TheYale that don't see what's going on in front of you.
Thanks JR, and welcome national security watchers......he didn't mean it, he does it all the time, no need to get excited, he's just trying to fan other's fires. He's always been such a quiet man..... :>)
Meanwhile.... As of today, around 250 of the over 2,500 wrongfully detained children have been returned as it becomes obvious to even the casual observer that the TrumpKids will not be returned by the court-ordered 7/26/18 date. Not only is the government is incapable of putting Trump’s humpty dumpty back together again, some of these families will never be reunited.
A shameful American act.
For the kids under 5, 50% have been returned, 50% will not be returned, some of the parents are either not the parents, criminal records, etc. I hope we don’t start stealing American kids of parents with criminal records, you know: do the crime, pay the time, lose your kids forever just does not sound American.
50% of those 50% under five not returned have parents already deported. I guess we will just keep them, some of them forever.
How to create a terrorist. First, take some young kids who are more susceptible to a terrorist message. Malleable minds with many training years ahead are invaluable to this process.
Then you need some societal disenfranchisement with the world as it is. Poverty and violence really help! Rape is good too! “Sauce for the Goose” as Mr. Spock would say.
Add in an emotionally-charged personality-affecting pivotal moment in time like a long arduous journey away from extreme violence, murder and rape followed by being ripped from your Momma’s arms and put in jail. A nice air-conditioned tent jail, but jail.
Then you need an easily identifiable target --- something or someone who holds power over you. Like the guys who separated your family. America can work for that, sure.
Lastly you need proximity, a way to get close to your target so you can unleash all the revenge bottled up, so you can avenge the atrocities that you feel befell you. Check.
I wonder if, by stealing these kids and not being able to reunite them, essentially forcing these littlest of immigrants to be trapped in US foster care, our cake may be baked for unintended, but foreseeable, consequences.
Skippy et al: I am really impressed by all your IT security stuff --- it’s so cool, I wish I could learn some of this. Meanwhile, Skip, nice list, not.
“Here’s a link to the Multiple times Trump called Russia out on meddling.” Oh come on Skip, what do we have to do, count “no meddling” versus “meddling” lies coming out of this liar’s mouth. One is a total lie and the other is Trump lying. We know what he feels and what he has been forced to say by Putin and by the American people. What he says depends on who is twisting him that day.
“Do you honestly believe that this is the first time a foreign nation” Of course not. Does that mean we should invite the GRU over to see our investigation details? Or ask Vlad over for dinner? Trump is the ONLY guy who can stroke the bear while poking the bear --- with a sharp stick. In the eye.
“We bragged about…” Shoot, wait till you see what happens if we get rid of this guy.
“Putin got the message” Oh please. Putin is delivering the message.
Trump: “publicly called out Russian election meddling over 8 times” Who can forget
The 400-pound mystery man (is this guy a consultant in NC?)
“Maybe there is no hacking”
“A laughing point”
I think it was Russia, but there could be more
“Nobody really knows for sure,” Putin vehemently denied it“
He said he didn’t meddle … I really believe that when he tells me that, he means it”
It may be Russia, or China or another country or group.
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/07/13/trump-statements-russia-meddling-719281
Really Skippy, who you gonna believe? This guy or your own eyes?
"Flag on the play. Name calling. 20 yards."
Yeah, I let one fly. Alot better than can be said for TheYale... he has sh1t all over this thread... dude's got a fetish apparently.
You're no different than TheYale... according to your own logic re: Trump and past Presidents (-;
SD What you just demonstrated is my biggest problem with the narrative, no one can really define what "Russian meddling" is. That is on purpose I believe, since "meddling" and "collusion" are two different things and the left really wants to conflate them. The left and the MSM demand everyone recognize Russian meddling, with the inference that Trump and the Russians worked together and the only reason HRC lost is because of the Russians. We both know that not to be the case - there were numerous tactical faux pas in her campaign.
"You're no different than TheYale... according to your own logic re: Trump and past Presidents (-; "
While technically correct, my ONE requires alot less TP than his plethora ;-)
That means I'm alot better for the environment.
Forget the left, look with your own eyes. If you think he's a straight shooter, God bless. I think he has deferred to Putin's desire to blame anyone but the Russians acquiescing to the truth upon occasion and then reverting back to Putin's defense.
Meanwhile.....“significantly increased sanctions on Russia” Actually this was an act of Congress that Trump called unconstitutional because it allowed Congress to veto a President’s potential sanction removal. He had no choice, they had the veto override.
“put sanctions on Russian oligarchs and banks aligned with Putin” I believe you are repeating yourself, yourself…….
“kicked out 60 Russian diplomats” Oh you mean the ones we expelled after Putin used nerve gas on that guy and his daughter? Quick – we need the formal invites, guess who's coming to dinner." After the nerve gas, Trump called Putin to congratulate him on his election. “Ya Donald, that last message I sent really put me over the top, lowered the no votes, people understand my gas….” Also, you forgot Trump’s loophole: 60 kicked out, total number can stay the same, just bring in 60 more --- we like the NRA girls…. FYI – the number is 455, since happened in March, don’t know the current total. I believe the word feckless applies.
“launched missiles in Syria” Doesn’t everyone? He’s got tiny hands, remember: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/josh-rogin/wp/2017/04/09/obamas-syria-strike-plan-was-much-bigger-than-trumps/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.b42166139e19
“significantly increased USA defense spending” Well, you got me here. We had the yugest military budget, bigger, badder, that the next ten nations put together. And some of the ten are friends, or at least were up until last week. Now, under Trump, we have the yugest military budget, bigger, badder, than the next ten nations combined. We spend over $550B; they spend $70B --- what the hell does our spending have to do with Russia? And Republicans have forgotten how to spell deficit.
“sent offensive weapons to Ukraine” A WINNER!
“is putting pressure on Germany to cancel the Russian natural gas deal.” Big deal. Merkle told him to shove it. Another feckless but delivered with an incendiary rhetoric. Nothing like a little instability amongst allies to make Vlad smile. It’s under 20% of Germany’s energy usage, not 70% like Trump lied. This is a “if pigs could fly” chance of coming and really does not matter much in the scheme of things. Obama had the same concern, just skipped the feckless and the nasty language.
One out of ten ain't good. I probably have zero facts here, all spin, right jr? Don't look, just believe.
So we're wasting tax payer money now for Mueller to investigate Cohen about a possible playboy model Trump may have been with over a decade ago... Has nothing to do with Russia or their meddling. If that is all they have on Trump then this investigation has been a big waste of time. No one cares about Manaforts dealings in the past prior to the campaign or Flynn lying to the FBI about a meeting. No one cares about Trumps flings with women as a private citizen. We've known for decades that he cheats. Time to wrap this nonsense up. They have nothing...
SD - ever consider the possibility that Trump just likes to get the left worked up?
Inviting Putin to the white house is one of the most epic troll moments in history.
heres my thoughts on the strategy:
Trump is hell bent on keeping the left in stroke range for his entire Presidency - the continued idiocy will only drives any centrists away.
The more socialist extremist, vocal, and violent you go, the more middle of the road Americans get driven away. Think it through who wants to hang out and listen to constant negativity about the country or how difficult it is for [enter daily maligned group here ] in America and its all Trumps fault.
The left is the party of division - the dividing of people by skin color or sexual orientation defining them as victims who cant succeed. Its clear that you dominate the news media, the entertainment media, and academia.no doubt. What do you do with it? Shout from the rooftops whatever the insanity du jour is.
Your message is clear - anyone that does not go along with your agenda is to shamed and attacked because they are racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamophobic, deplorable people. Don't even argue this one - two words Maxine Waters..
this is why #WalkAway is happening - people do it for the sake of their own sanity - and Trump did it to you. Think about that.
https://townhall.com/columnists/joyoverbeck/2018/07/11/how-the-walkaway-campaign-is-drowning-the-blue-wave-democrats-n2499243
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2018/07/02/the-walkaway-meme-is-what-happens-when-everything-is-viral-and-nothing-matters/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.8fe382415aa4
"So we're wasting tax payer money now for Mueller to investigate Cohen about a possible playboy model Trump may have been with over a decade ago... " Taxpayer money, yes. Mueller, no. No for Russian Spy/NRA/Republican/SEX scandal either, so far. Port Star, no. Payoffs/HushMoney/Campaign Finance - yes.
You need a road map to keep the scandals straight.
"You're certainly the expert on that, my friend." Very elementary my dear friend. With retorts like that, I can tort no more....Shut down....
"SD - ever consider the possibility that Trump just likes to get the left worked up?
Inviting Putin to the white house is one of the most epic troll moments in history. "
Trump has a lot of reasons to do this stuff as much as he just wings it based on what his tummy tells him. From Putin to personal, it's his style, always has been, the only difference is now we listen to him.
Putin coming to dinner. Can you see any upside to this besides sticking to those he hates? Is that what we've come to, revenge?
Like JR's totally evil "Now, I shall sit back and enjoy your pain," awful comment, Trump just likes to see pain in other Americans? Must really suck to be a Mexican in one of those tents then......
Meanwhile, back to Skippy's less than accurate fun filled facts.
Obama: “gave away 20% of USA uranium to Putin.” Wait, wasn’t this Hillary? Good, you’ve grown. U1 deal was for 51% of company producing 20% of US uranium sold to Russian company; technology used was not special. 51%, not 100%. So max of 10%, not 20%. But wait, there's more....
This company is worth about 10% of our production now. Multiple reviews and votes occurred across both parties, but you are right, the buck stopped with Obama. However, the company does not export rights outside of North America…. However, they did export a small amount of yellow-cake to Europe through a Canadian company which was allowed to export. You can buy yellow-cake from many places, you don't need Canada to get it. And iit’s a long ways to enriched from there.
No uranium from this deal can be found shipped to Russia unless you shipped it.
“drew a line in the sand in Syria and did nothing” Did nothing is 100% wrong but I give you the line in the sand apparently was not a line…..Did he say would or wouldn't?
“did nothing when Putin took Crimea” Not true, WE put sanctions on Russia, we got the EU to put sanctions on Russia. Even Putin-in-the-pocket Merkle put tough sanctions in place. What did you want: war?
“prior to the election told the public there was no election meddling” Being PC, we’ll go with mostly incorrect here: http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2018/jul/17/sean-hannity/sean-hannity-cites-misleading-obama-quote-coverage/
“prior to the election told his own intel agencies to stand down from investigating Russian election meddling” Need source on this one.
“Want to talk about the numerous times Obama met alone with Putin or when he got caught in a hot microphone promising leeway after his election?” In the off mic moment, didn’t Obama correct the “would have more flexibility” to “wouldn’t.” Isn’t that OK? Wait, it was just locker room talk like "I like to grab em by the pussy."
Most important, focus on happened, not what was said. You're a Trumper, like JR, you should know that by now..... Seriously, my friends, buddies, I don’t think Putin got any flexibility. Based on his actions, he got sanctions. Need sources of PRIVATE meetings to add more.
You're still failing miserably in the facts, but getting better at targeting Obama than you were showing off Trump's successes.
@SD: "Like JR's totally evil "Now, I shall sit back and enjoy your pain," awful comment,"
You don't actually READ much do you?
JR said: "I did not write this." And JR said it AT THE TOP OF THAT POST.
What was that you were saying about "just believing" whatever you want to believe? You resemble your own remark.
"This will probably take several posts due to length. I did not write it. But you should read it. You won't like it, but that's how you learn."
I am sorry. There were no quotes. There is no author listed How would I know the last sentence was not yours. How do I know what was hers versus what you added. There's not even a link to be able to check your work. And given your past history, checking is useful.
More important, why would you publish that crap if you did not believe it. OR if you had issues with that sentence, why would you not annotate it? How can we know what you believe, what you don't, if you don't tell us. Is that like throwing something against the wall just to see in any of it sticks?
Instead of your incredibly adroit repartee of sticks n stones, I'm rubber, you're glue, and pot/kettle comebacks, perhaps you shouldn't publish stuff just to be incendiary if you don't believe it. I mean why put stuff you can't stomach under your name, much less a turd blossom like that last sentence.
And quit talking about yourself in the third person: Strangerdanger does not like that :>)
"There is no author listed How would I know the last sentence was not yours. "
Why would you think it was?
You know what they say about ASSuming things.....
Actually it’s assume; what they say about assuming only you would know. Sounds racist to me ;-/. Or at keast not PC. Kind of like your last post. Without sourcing, without quotes, how would I know where Julie ended and jr began.
A classic funny movie way ahead of its time. The hysterical townspeople from 1966 have nothing on today's citizens.
https://youtu.be/IEWWRbn4zG0
And despite the negative spin from the MSM (who are 80% registered Democrats) , it's clear that your president, Trump has been much tougher on Russia than Obama ever was, and he continues to be.
Skipy's facts were spot on correct and he sourced them. Even the MSM backs him up on it. These are facts:
Trump:
•publicly called out Russian election meddling over 8 times
•significantly increased sanctions on Russia
•put sanctions on Russian oligarchs and banks aligned with Putin
•kicked out 60 Russian diplomats
•launched missiles in Syria
•significantly increased USA defense spending
•sent offensive weapons to Ukraine
•is putting pressure on Germany to cancel the Russian natural gas deal
Gh: see above on Skippys “facts.” Refute that.
I had the link in seconds, that isn’t the point. Point is w/o proper quote marks, sourcing, how could anyone know where Julie ended her thoughts and Jr’s began. It’s a proper grammer sort of thing.
Meanwhile let’s all sing for Melania: “Stand by your groperman......”. Hillary, remember Hillary guys, can offer advice on dealing with the public while married to President Cant’tkeepithispants.
Trump wins! Spends the most money on......escort silence services than any President ever. Tape at 11... Cohen to get Stormy again. Hope Melania kept her sign-board coat. Vlad, no need to bring a date, he’s going stag!
And for Dan, time for “another one bites the dust.” Rumor is Don looking for someone really incompetent for the slot. Scaramangler maybe?
You guys really know how to elect class, real class
SD- You've been shooting blanks for almost 2 years now isn't it time to see a Dr. (lol)
1. "No uranium from this deal can be found shipped to Russia unless you shipped it."
SD - come on man - heres a link to the NYT saying this stuff and yes it's Obamas fault because he approved it the sale-even if there is no uranium in Russia over it - the Clintons got paid off to let the deal go through.
"And shortly after the Russians announced their intention to acquire a majority stake in Uranium One, Mr. Clinton received $500,000 for a Moscow speech from a Russian investment bank with links to the Kremlin that was promoting Uranium One stock."
"ethical challenges presented by the Clinton Foundation, headed by a former president who relied heavily on foreign cash to accumulate $250 million in assets even as his wife helped steer American foreign policy as secretary of state, presiding over decisions with the potential to benefit the foundation’s donors."
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/24/us/cash-flowed-to-clinton-foundation-as-russians-pressed-for-control-of-uranium-company.html
and your correct about it going to Europe - apparently since it was commodity any country authorized to purchase uranium - of which Russia is one - could have bought it on the market. Hillary made the deal with Canadian 'middle man' which allowed Russia
to get uranium from the US.
https://www.nrc.gov/docs/ML1516/ML15168A230.pdf
On 17 October 2017, The Hill reported obtaining evidence that Vadim Mikerin, a Russian official who oversaw the American operations of the Russian nuclear agency Rosatom, was being investigated for corruption by multiple U.S. agencies while the Uranium One deal was up for approval — information that apparently was not shared with U.S. officials involved in approving the transaction. The Hill also reported receiving documents and eyewitness testimony “indicating Russian nuclear officials had routed millions of dollars to the U.S. designed to benefit former President Bill Clinton’s charitable foundation during the time Secretary of State Hillary Clinton served on a government body that provided a favorable decision to Moscow,”
http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/355749-fbi-uncovered-russian-bribery-plot-before-obama-administration
2. “drew a line in the sand in Syria and did nothing” Did nothing is 100% wrong but I give you the line in the sand apparently was not a line…..Did he say would or wouldn't?
Obama said in 2012 that his red line with the Assad regime would be the use of chemical weapons. Later that year, Assad's forces killed nearly 1,500 people in a chemical-weapons attack and he did zip.
http://www.businessinsider.com/obama-red-line-syria-iran-2016-8
"When the president announced his plans to attack [the Assad regime] and then pulled back, it was exactly the period in time when American negotiators were meeting with Iranian negotiators secretly in Oman to get the nuclear agreement," Solomon said."
3. “did nothing when Putin took Crimea”
well - he did something - he told them to stand down.. and I get he didn't want to get the US involved in a war with Russia - but why is it that Obama gets a pass for this and Trump trying to improve relations makes him a heretic?
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2015-08-21/u-s-told-ukraine-to-stand-down-as-putin-invaded
4. "prior to the election told his own intel agencies to stand down from investigating Russian election meddling”
https://thepoliticalinsider.com/susan-rice-stand-down/
https://www.bizpacreview.com/2018/03/09/report-susan-rice-gave-stand-down-order-to-us-intel-while-russians-were-attempting-to-meddle-in-election-611712
more stuff for you to ponder.
Obama weakened our defenses in Eastern Europe which pleased Putin.
Obama /Hillary offered Putin a "reset button", an inference the relationship would
be better than it was when George Bush was president - just like Trump just did.
As yourself - seeing as Obama / Hillary had such a great relationship with Russia - we are now asked to believe Russia wanted Trump to be our next president.... and were also supposed to consider the compromise of private emails through Phishing and insecurity are an act of war worthy of starting WW 3 over.
come on buddy - I know you are way smarter than to believe the stuff you are posting knowing you are glossing over YUGE pieces of information and playing semantics.
1. I said it was Obama's decision tyvm, however,,no uranium went to Russia, sanctions were put in place and how do the Clinton's profit from money to charity or does the charity recipient profit? Remember, this is NOT a CTF or CrookedTrump Foundation so tell me how bad dollars going to good cause is wrong in this case?
I mean if Trump lines his own pockets with Russian gold, it's good business. But if Clinton's give the money to the needy, it's a crime?
2. Again, I sort of agreed with you, at least that the line was not a line; Obama went to Congress instead and they denied him the bombs. Trump, at the time, agreed with Congress. Now he doesn't. So Obama did not drop any bombs. Instead, he: 1) got Assad to announce his massive program, 2) got Assad to agree to destroy chems, 3) got Assad to allow multinational coalition to do it. 4) got most of them, but not all.
The recent sarin attack was probably not from the 2013 stock, but we clearly did not destroy everything. Some sites were in active fighting zones and we apparently "trusted" Assad. So Obama didn't drop bombs, got rid of most of the chemicals, but not all. Did Trump do any better with either of his attacks? Who knows, which is sort of your answer. So I sort of agreed with you that a line is not a line.
3. "Trump trying to improve relations makes him a heretic?" I am all for improving relations. I would just avoid bad optics like Obama's red line. Obama did the right thing, he got rid of the majority of chems, Assad didn't use them again until Trump, I think? But the optics of the line were bad. Still are. Trump's would/wouldn't optics are the worst of any Presidency. Standing up to a strongman by bending over is bad. Being in Putin's pocket is bad.
4.Here's my read on Obama and the election. If he did what you ask for, Trump would not be President so not sure I see the point. I mean Trump knows about the Russians, now the public knows about the Russians, the whole world is watching as Trump not only offers the olive branch, but the keys to the kingdom. Calls allowing the Russians into our investigation "a fantastic idea," says no meddling, etc. etc. etc. Hey, and when he walks it back, he often reverses the walk back into a 360 within 24-hours. Hell, he has a few 720's and even a 1440. Shawn White is impressed. https://www.npr.org/2018/02/21/587614043/fact-check-why-didnt-obama-stop-russia-s-election-interference-in-2016
Back to the facts, Jack...
Recently, Senators voted 51-48 to approve Brian Benczkowski (Slavic for Bendoverputin) to be an assistant attorney general.
This guy is tied, via his private practice, to Russia’s Alfa Bank which the FBI investigated after an Alfa Bank server communicated with a Trump Organization server. Lots o money laundering there too.
After serving Alfa for years in private practice, he joined the Trump campaign, asked for a DOJ job quid-pro-quo, and didn’t get approved. Then went back to work with Alfa spearheading the Bank efforts to clean the stink raised by the Steele report. I guess they believed the Steele Report. Trump somehow decided this was the perfect guy for DOJ job although he has absolutely zero, nada, no relevant experience whatsoever. You know, the normal Trump process: "experience?" "none." "good, you're hired."
Betsy DeVos says thank you for lowering the bar; she is not the dumbest brick in the wall anymore……..
He has said he would recuse himself from any private practice overlaps, but not from other Russian investigations, like Muller’s or the one for Cohen.
He is second in line to be able to fire Mueller
He hates Mueller
His career was made on top of Russian finance.
He has never prosecuted a criminal case
He’s never prosecuted a civil case
He’s never filed a motion in a federal court.
He will be the least experienced, least competent, worst person EVER in this position OR any peer position at DOJ.
51:48 with Manchin crossing over. What the #$#$#$ are they thinking. At least pretend some of this crap bothers you. If Rosenstein goes, this guy could fire Mueller overnight.
I think I just threw up in my mouth again…..
Good post Skippy.
SD, how you can hold up all the so-called "evidence" you do regarding the Trump-Russia collusion, but yet ignore all the evidence Skippy just provided regarding the Obama-Clinton-Russia uranium deal, just illustrates the dichotomy of your logic. you're willing to give Obama/clinton every benefit of the doubt, but Trump is so "guilty" he should be in prison by now. You are ridiculous.
Beyond the niceties, you have to actually describe what you mean JR. Maybe some facts next time. You guys are the ones with the hard one for Hillary; I just try to provide some facts. Personally, I have moved on.
I do understand what Skippy wrote, first he said "gave away 20% of USA uranium to Putin." I replied with numerical facts showing Skippy was totally wrong, both on the amount and the concept. It was a lie.
Then Skippy changed the game and wrote: "yes it's Obamas fault" which repeats what I said! And then: 'even if there is no uranium in Russia over it" and that's what I said too...… and then he deviated to:: " Clintons got paid off to let the deal go through." First, and I didn't add this: there were many people, a number of different agencies, like the NRC that does not include Clinton, the Foreign Investment Committee with Clinton and some dozen separate voters, that for Skippy to claim "Clintons....let the deal go through" is just another lie. Look it up, how many agencies, how many votes, and Obama on top with the veto potential.
On the cash to Clintons. Besides the legality versus illegality of public speaking for fabulous sums, I noted " how do the Clinton's profit from money to charity or does the charity recipient profit? Remember, this is NOT a CTF or CrookedTrump Foundation so tell me how bad dollars going to good cause is wrong in this case?"
Money to Clinton directly is not illegal, obviously legal, that's our call as to how dirty you think it is. I mean Ruskie Bank to Kremlin (which doesn't exist) to Uranium One is a viable concern, bad optics, but there is no evidence whatsoever of any of the votes being changed over this. There is no evidence of any policy being changed. Actually, there are millions involved across the U1 universe going to the Foundation, and the Foundation did not publically disclose, as promised. Again, not illegal, but bad, really bad optics, and the Foundation apologized, unveiled all, within days of the NYT piece.
Agreed, not a good sign, bad optics, but the money did not go to Clinton, it went to the needy. The Clinton Foundation is about as transparent as you can get as to the use of its funds. I won't even indulge in the equivalency counterpart of Trump, the Russians, his Foundation, and the various crimes he has paid off, or are still under investigation.
Then Skippy went BACK to: " Hillary made the deal with Canadian 'middle man' which allowed Russia to get uranium from the US." WTF --- this is spin and a half. I covered the tiny amount of yellow cake, legally, via Canada, a unfortunate contract loophole. But who cares: they could have gotten this small bit of yellow cake many places, legally, no problems. And yellow cake is light years away from weapons-grade plutonium necessary for a bomb. To say "Russia to get uranium from US" while leaving out the amount and the relative ease to accomplish from many places in the world, is spin.
https://www.factcheck.org/2017/10/facts-uranium-one/
We call it discussion JR, and I am trying to present facts basically refuting most of Skippy's "facts,' just about all of his ascertains, back to the shadows if they deserve to be. He got most of this one wrong, a little right which I stated. but still continues this spin attack even with facts in his face.
Or try it this way: If Hillary was crooked, how bad do you guys suck pondwater, from the bottom of a very muddy pond, that you can't even indict, much less even convict. Citizen Clinton more powerful than President Trump, leader of the free world. You have your little hearings, call people names, but you're feckless when it comes to applying the boot heels. I mean you own the Presidency, he calls her crooked, asks to lock her up. Ask who? You own the DOJ --- can't you get a little investigation going? How impotent are you?
Just a PR move to take your focus off the facts facing you today.
“how do the Clinton's profit from money to charity or does the charity recipient profit? Remember, this is NOT a CTF or CrookedTrump Foundation so tell me how bad dollars going to good cause is wrong in this case?“
I don’t care how good it is - in no way should a charity run by a former president benefit from something that the sitting SECDEF does - talk about optics? That fails the straight face test for sure.
In regards to Obama and the election - I disagree wholeheartedly - Trump would still be president and would not be dealing with aspersions that the election was fixed. There was absolutely Russian interference but there was also internal interference - HRC ran a billion dollar campaign financed by Soros, Bloomberg and some other left leaning corporate donors. The 500K in obscure Facebook ads did nothing to effect that. The release of the emails surely had an influence as did Comey coming up with a 30 page document with everything illegal HRC did and short circuiting the attorney generals authority by saying no reasonable prosecutor would prefer charges...
Seriously what in the heck was that SD. Now Comey is on twitter saying anyone who votes republican is a traitor. Clearly there could be no motive for his actions..
I don’t know enough about the AG appointment to discuss it but will read about it though. Thanks for the info.
SOS not SECDEF: and they did not benefit from what she did. She was in one of many agencies, each agencies having it's own vote. In her agency, there were approx. a dozen voters. I am really not sure the Charity needs to recuse itself at that distance.
Not sure the second paragraph. Did I miss the Segue? Surely I am not going to go there at this point.
Sorry secstate autocorrect
Bill Clinton didn’t get 500K for a speech?
And we’re talking about optics right? Why would the Clintons accept dollar one from Russia while HRC is in public service? That whole thing looked like garbage. What level of cognitive dissonance is required to say it doesn’t and call out Trump on what amounts to conjecture?
If there was anything more than that he would be burned at the stake on Maxine Waters front lawn.
In re Hillary - if she stayed senator and didn’t decide to quit and take a cabinet position to profit from her public service she probably would be president now or could have returned without issue and actually effect change. In addition the whole server deal would have been a non event.
Obama and JFK both did it - McCain did it lost and got to go back - nope she had to play games and now signs books at Costco. Trump should just say he talked to Putin about grandkids and weddings.
I guess that Clinton stuff is totally legal, bad optics. My turn. Here’s my first list -- I call it: Trump, the early years…..
• Trump’s Organization begins to be funded by Russians
o 1984: Russian mobster buys condos in Trump Tower
o 1988: Trump begins Trump Tower Moscow search
• 1998: Deutsche Bank only bank to fund bankrupt Trump, later pays $630M in Russian money laundering racket scheme of $10B
• 1998: Russian Stock Market collapses, Russians come to NYC for real estate, Trump World Tower funded by Russians
• 2002: Russian Mobster Felix Sater/Russian Oligarch Bayrock Finance back Trump Tower Soho, many other Trump projects. Sater imprisoned over a stabbing, his father was a mobster too.
• 2002: Trump begins marketing Trump Tower NYC in Moscow
• 2005 Bayrock gets exclusive to develop Trump Tower Moscow
• 2006-2016 Trump spends $400M in real estate, in cash, 14 deals that do not have bank financing, Trump kids visit Moscow, Sater chaperones
• 2007 Trump praises Putin on Larry King
• 2008: Trump sells to Russian, pockets $45M profit for asset held for 4 yrs, no improvements, Trump JR says““In terms of high-end product influx into the US, Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets; say in Dubai, and certainly with our project in SoHo and anywhere in New York”, Trump sues DBank, but DBank continues to loan to him, weird.
• 2010: Putin’s Bank funds Trump Tower Toronto, Trump manages the hotel, Sater becomes Senior Trump Advisor
• 2013: Eric Trump says 100% of Trump golf courses funded by Russians, Trump meets with Russian oligarch in Vegas, Trump says Putin his next best friend, Trump praises Putin’s request for no US intervention with him in Syria saying: “done really a great job of outsmarting our country, “ tells Letterman: Well, I’ve done a lot of business with the Russians.” “He’s a tough guy. I met him once,” personally invites Putin to Miss Universe – Moscow, says “The Russian market is attracted to me.” “I have a great relationship with many Russians, and almost all of the oligarchs were in the room,” Trump announces Russian skyscraper development project
• 2014: Trump says: “When I went to Russia with the Miss Universe pageant, he (Putin) contacted me and was so nice,” says “Putin even sent me a present, a beautiful present,” says “And I spoke indirectly and directly with President Putin who could not have been nicer.”
• 2015: Pro Putin Ukranian donates $150K to Trump Foundation, Trump continues to admit he met with Putin
• 2015: Sater to Cohen email: “Kostin who is Putin’s top finance guy and CEO of 2nd largest bank in Russia is on board and has indicated he would finance Trump Moscow.”
• 10/2015: TRUMP SIGNS LETTER OF INTENT FOR TRUMP TOWER MOSCOW.
• 2015: Sater to Cohen “I will get Putin on this program and we will get Donald elected… Buddy our boy can become president of the USA and we can engineer it. I will get all of Putin’s team to buy in on this, I will manage this process.”
• 2016: Trump Tower Moscow stalled, Cohen reaches out directly to Putin
https://investigaterussia.org/timelines/everything-we-know-about-russia-and-president-trump
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2018/07/20/ice-just-arrested-dozens-of-illegal-aliens-the-majority-have-criminal-records-n2502180
Meanwhile in a NJ sanctuary city - middlesex county jail released a bunch of recidivist criminals with ICE detainers ignoring the hold - ICE arrests them anyway. Stellar job completely ignoring public safety. Better than separating them from their families so they can separate you from yours.
I like that site actually SD - you added a lot of your own commentary to the timeline.
and just like the Clintons - if any of that stuff was illegal trump would still probably stay in office.
let me explain how the Republicans will dominate the November mid-terms and how Trump will win re-election.
Poll after poll shows the topics over half of Americans care about are:
Immigration / Border Security
The Economy
https://news.gallup.com/poll/237389/immigration-surges-top-important-problem-list.aspx?g_source=link_NEWSV9&g_medium=NEWSFEED&g_campaign=item_&g_content=Immigration%2520Surges%2520to%2520Top%2520of%2520Most%2520Important%2520Problem%2520List
What does Trump keep talking about?
Immigration / Border Security
The Economy
Whatever it takes to keep the media riled up about anything other than points 1 & 2, or on a point counter to what the majority of Americans support in regards to points 1&2
oh - and the same poll shows that not even one percent of Americans surveyed believe the Russia issue is the most important issue facing the country.
so heres the plan direct from the God Emperor from the universe Dr. Trump - and this is just for you SD so don't tell anyone.
The media will not cover anything other than Trump-Russian collusion, anti-Trump leaks, alleged sexual allegations - you know all your talking points.
Since they pander to the left - they cannot honestly cover the economy. (Tax Cuts = Crumbs etc) because it's booming.
Any anti-Trump immigration policy coverage is wholly counter to what most Americans want
Running on an abolish ICE platform (looking at you Ms. Ocasio-Cortez) not going to help either
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/elections/abolish-ice-new-rallying-cry-progressive-democrats-n885501
You may want to take this secret knowledge back to the bat cave.
Trump will often “shoot himself in the foot" because it forces the media to 24/7 outrage report on topics Americans simply do not care about, especially when it comes to voting.
This is how Trump pulled in and continues to pull in the l middle / moderate voters. They may not be a fan of Trump, but he’s the only person talking or doing anything about the topics they actually care about -it also doesn't 't help that the left is now moving to an extreme
Once they start researching the economy and the difference between Trumps policy and what Trump says on TV they realize he is the only person making successful progress on these issues they care about.
Your former base is leaving you in droves..
The Democrats decided to part ways with Labor and align themselves with Wall street in the 1990s and Clinton sealed the coffin with NAFTA - in 25 years we went from over 860 manufacturing countries to around 320
https://www.wsj.com/articles/americas-manufacturing-towns-once-solidly-blue-are-now-a-gop-haven-1532013368
look at the momentum #walkaway is gaining
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1945356878817544/about/
https://www.walkawaycampaign.com/
4cat - I sure hope you didn't teach reading.. it was 16 that Middlesex county felt it was OK to release back into the community out of 37 total.
"These individuals range from 21 to 68 years old and all were previously arrested or convicted of a variety of offenses. Some of the arrests and convictions included: aggravated criminal sexual contact, aggravated assault, DUI, hindering apprehension, endangering the welfare of a child, battery, theft, burglary, possession of a weapon, forgery, domestic violence assault, disorderly conduct, and illegal entry."
https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/ice-ero-newark-arrests-37-individuals-middlesex-county-nj-enforcement-surge
"Why would the Clintons accept dollar one from Russia while HRC is in public service? " Hmmmm. And you think all the Russian investment into TrumpCo evaporated on 1.1.17? Ivanka's shoes stopped being made in China? Trump actually stopped running his organization? I think there is a salient difference here.
First off, I discount anyone putting money in the Clinton Foundation swayed Hillary at all, ever. As I said, the Clinton Foundation is one of the most transparent charities out there, for self preservation as one reason. Trump, on the other hand, has paid off on fraud charge on his college, admitted self-dealing from the Foundation, and will be in court on a plethora of other Foundation charges just before the midterms.... Oh yeah, the judge is strongly suggesting that they settle because it looks very, very, bad.
So one guy has admitted guilt, close down his Foundation, and will be in court with a plethora of charges and a judge strongly hinting at settle, settle, settle. For the Clintons, investigate again, fire away. I am sure you will find what you already found.
As to the Clinton speaking $$$, it is bad optics. The difference is there is no proof that anything torrid happened due to either Clinton speaking. Feel free to check out Chelsea too; she's related. I mean once Hillary ran, both Bill's and C's rates went way up; certainly worthy of investigation. In terms of Trump, first, he gets $1.5M per speech versus Bill's $.5M. Once Don did 17 of these at one real estate convention. He once got $2.5M for one speech pitching an ACN pyramid scheme, and he was giving them in 2015. Now, Bill was not in office when he spoke and you got offended, he was just related to Hillary. Trump Jr has been hitting the airwaves, getting huger rates with Daddy as Pres, he's going to foreign countries, has access to the President, and is raking it in. Eric, Ivanka, all have speaking talent agents; I have not found the money yet. So investigate away --- fair for all sides.
you mean like the governance review of the foundation in December 2010 that the Clinton Foundation had a rubber stamp board of directors and that many of its donors had “an expectation of a quid pro quo benefits in return for gifts.”
https://www.scribd.com/document/327532201/12727757-4
this transparent tax-exempt public foundation had none of the independent oversight required under federal charity law. The Clinton Foundation reported $187 million in net assets in 2011. They identified inherent conflicts of interest and the use of audits based on cash accounting rather than the federally mandated accrual basis.
They also flagged a potential problem in the charity’s IRS filing:
… the IRS Form 990, which is signed under penalties of perjury and is publicly available, asks (a) whether the Foundation has a written conflict-of-interest policy, (ii) whether directors, officers, and key employees are required to annually disclose interests that could give rise to conflicts of interest, and (iii) whether the Foundation regularly and consistently monitors and enforces compliance with its conflict-of- interest policy. The Foundation indicated on its 2010 Form 990 that it has a written conflict-of- interest policy, requires annual disclosure of potential conflicts of interest, and monitors and enforces compliance with the policy. However, we did not find evidence of that enforcement.
The auditors concluded with a recommendation (original emphasis): We recommend that the Foundation establish a gift acceptance policy and procedures to ensure that all donors are properly vetted and that no inappropriate quid pro quos are offered to donors in return for contributions.
https://www.clintonfoundation.org/files/published_results_from_corporate_review.pdf
in 2103 the new gift acceptance policy and procedures had not yet been adopted - why? HRC already left state.
The foundations director was Terry McAuliffe, Bill Clintons fundraiser and former chairman of the DNC and now Virginia’s governor.
The same McAuliffe gave the Clintons a $1.35 million gift that allowed them to buy their 11-room Chappaqua, New York, mansion in 1999.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/campaigns/keyraces2000/stories/house090499.htm
same audit in 2011 found 7% of expenditures went to charity, 10% to travel and events, and 22% on salary - click the attachment
https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/46848
you will find:
most of the foundation money is in foreign bank accounts
They spent 255 million that year:
18M on programs. and 17M on parties (training)
(18 for charity 14+ 3 for parties).
Want to tell me what the 16 million is for “other.”?
Consulting, $9 million. Doug Band got most of it, to cover his uncharged expenses at Teneo for setting up speeches for Bill.
check out Page 28.
Significant deficiency(ies)? Yes
Material weakness(es)? Yes
When Hillary was a senator, the Clinton Foundation limped along with an endowment of a couple of million and Bill was getting about $150,000 for a speech. When she became Secretary of State, Bill’s speaking fees trippled and the Foundation raised close to 3 billion dollars.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/more-money-more-problems-a-guide-to-hillary-clintons-cash-scandals/391299/
And still no one cares about Trump’s tax returns. What a long audit, huh? What’s he hiding? The longer he waits to show them, the worse his credibility becomes.
“Most likely”, “maybe “,”has the authority” is the intel I gathered, when researching the net, in reference to Mueller having Trump’s taxes. I haven’t heard it mentioned, on the news. I could have missed something, as lately I’ve been advised to stay away from news. My husband can’t take my shouting at the TV, any more. LOL. I’ll admit I could be mistaken, if I can’t find recourses I trust...like Craig’s List (just kidding). Anyone’s financial and psychological profiles are important to investigate, prior to easily handing over the keys to the kingdom and a blank check. They should have been disclosed prior to being elected.
"My husband can’t take my shouting at the TV, any more. "
That's funny! I just saw something on tv about how liberals are unhappy during any administration. Included was a picture of a women kneeling in the street with a crazy screaming face :)
maja2 "I just saw something on tv about how liberals are unhappy during any administration."
Interesting. My immediate response was "no... they were happy during Obama, right?" But then... that's when the 99%-er protests happened, Ferguson riots, Black Lives Matter.... maybe it's true, maybe they are never happy....
I got that from SD but my research shows the same as yours - I would think to conduct an investigation of this type the first thing they would do is “follow the money”
Mueller needs no judge, no subpoena, no need to inform team Trump, to get the tax records; just a call to the IRS. So, you be the judge whether he has them. I say of course.
He also, on the record, has interviewed Deutsche Bank no doubt about the Personal Wealth Division loaning millions to bad-credit-risk Trump to pay off his DB loan from the Real Estate Division while Trump was suing the bank ultimately losing over that same Real Estate Division loan during the same time that Deutsche Bank was raking it in from it's Moscow operations laundering over $10B of Russian funds for a fine of over $630M. Yeah, that money trail..... As one bank office said in the past of this savvy financial move and the Trump relationship on the bank's part: "this is #$#$#$ing crazy."
Trump is the Lazarus-whisperer thinking he can always come back from the dead as he has so many time. Unfortunately this probably means he will hand in here to the bitter end whereas most would see the writing on the wall, beg illness, and depart.
Mueller, ever notice the B. Karloff resemblance, knows his prey can't run, wants to protect the office of the President so is reluctant to throw the same mud as Ghouliani or Trump, reluctant to reveal all, and is content to continue the investigation as long as it continues to bear fruit, hoping that Trump will take the all so many hints being tossed his way.
Given that the Republicans have lost any sense of values, nerve, or balls, while a few have crossed, a few more have opined negatively after this latest Putin-pocket-adventure, neither spine nor the vote has risen to the point of deposing the King.
And so we roll on.
"The difference is there is no proof that anything torrid happened. . . ."
That knife cuts both ways, you got no proof of collusion, just hyperbolic invective and unproven speculation. Quit lying about it. Spin, spin , spin is all the unhinged left has open to them and all that nashing of teeth and irrational pearl-clutching is gonna lose them the mid-terms. lol.
IDK how anyone can even vote democratic anymore... Pelosi has dementia, Waters insights riots, and some are dabbling in socialism. Is that the future people really want? Socialism has worked so well for Europe over the last several decades...
"Given that the Republicans have lost any sense of values, nerve, or balls,"
LOL you still haven't told us what planet you're on, SD.... 'cause it sure ain't this one! ROFLMAO
This is gonna take a couple.....he's just a puppet....
To Auntiel’s delight, my Trump distrust started when he was just a NYC buffoon; I don’t watch reality TV. I started early, was dumbfounded by the financial trail, and was seen crying when you accepted the man sans tax returns. While some of the actions seem to place Trump directly in Putin’s pockets, others have other Trump benefits while perhaps making Putin smile. And that seems important to Don. Willing participant, unwitting stooge, or just likes to do things Vlad’s way --- you can be the judge, but Mueller’s piecing together of the whole story and actual, physical, ties to Putin will come into play shortly.
For me, Trump has loved Putin for decades. Being politically in Putin’s pocket started during the convention, when Trump agreed to destroy the Republican Russian aggression plank by removing lethal weapons to the Ukraine and lots of other Russian nicety’s, I got that strange Nixon-like feeling that something is just not Kosher here. I mean Trump gutted the plank. Weird. And now he delivers lethal weapons to Ukraine, go figure, weirder yet.
Trump has never condemned Putin for meddling with our elections. If he even acknowledges it, those rare occasions, he walks it back in 24 hours or less.
What does Putin want? He wants to destroy the relationships that have made the world more stable, safer, and even more egalitarian. He wants to convince you that these relationships as well as your institutions are the cause of your problems to promote Russia as a world power at our demise. Getting friends to distrust, resent, and be overly suspicious of each other’s words and actions are the metrics of Putin’s success. The following is a partial list of how Trump helps Putin…..
One of Trump’s first moves in office was to charge the State Department to develop the plan lifting all Russian sanctions, return diplomatic compounds and other Russian friendly things. That’s why Congress codified sanctions to oppose Trump’s move pulling Trump from Putin's pocket on this one.
Trump continues being against sanctions. In 2017 Trump said, “People don’t realize Russia has been very, very heavily sanctioned. They were sanctioned at a very high level, and that took place very recently. It’s now time to get back to healing a world that is shattered and broken. Those are very important things. And I feel that having Russia in a friendly posture, as opposed to always fighting with them, is an asset to the world and an asset to our country, not a liability.” Yeah, tell that to Crimea or Ukraine.
Trump believes Crimea belongs to Russia saying “Crimea is Russian because everyone who lives there speaks Russian.
Trump asked that Russia be readmitted to the G7. Why would we want an economic weakling like Russia in the G7? We already have Italy.
continued...…(somebody post something...…)
SD Trump also said Crimea wouldn’t have happened on his watch. Obama allowed that to happen. What do you want to go to war with Russia over Crimea? It’s funny there are pictures of past Presidents and members of the Senate (Crying chuck) having pow wows with Putin. No one said anything then. But Trump meets with the guy and people like you cry that the sky is falling. You really need to get help with your Trump Derangement Syndrome…
Well let me ask you this SD - serious question. Do you think Trump is somehow conspiring to align us with Russia in an attempt to destroy America? Or is it a clinton pay for access scheme ?
Putin's plan:
Elect a bafoon as US President who pretends to be nationalist and protectionist as long as he
1)not only praises him and russia but also promotes russia
2) will Undo all the ban and sanction on Russian federation
3) will give Russia a free hand in Syria and Ukraine
4) will discredit all US intelligence agencies and demoralise them
6) Strangulate EU and NATO,so they become obsolete and they are rendered powerless against Russia
7) Most IMPORTANTLY DOESN'T HAVE THE GUTS TO CONFRONT PUTIN OR RUSSIA ON ANYTHING BUT HAS GUTS TO WAIT FOR HIM FOR 1 HOUR
The Yale in need of some fact checking again.
"2) will Undo all the ban and sanction on Russian federation"
Fact the toughest sanctions imposed on Russia have been under his presidency.
3) will give Russia a free hand in Syria and Ukraine.
Trump just approved a new arms deal to the Ukraine, including lethal weapons something Obama refused to do. As far as Syria you're talking like a true Neocon again. Are you planning on enlisting to go fight Russians in Syria, a country who has been their ally since the 40's, or do you just want to see other people send their kids there to die.?
"Strangulate EU and NATO,so they become obsolete and they are rendered powerless against Russia"
Hes strengthening NATO by pushing members to kick in 2 points of their GDP...
sorry i don't see a basis for any of those claims.
the rest is just your personal conjecture.
Metsman: save the water for yourself, people who are sidekick need water as the job is demanding.
Denis,
Trump refused to sign the sanctions for a long time and was forced to signed it by the senate, we all know it. It's amazing and wonderful that you can't say anything good about trump without mentioning Obama or Hillary, without these two you would be wordless and mute,you accepted them Trump's benchmark.
Trump before the election said that Crimea has a right to join Russia and after his recent honeymoon with Putin, Putin's govt has said trump has agreed to look into possibility of referendums in Ukraine. Trump govt has never denied this agreement with the Russians. He shouldn't play flip flop policy on the Ukrainian-russian policy.
The Yale, you can speculate on his motives all you want, again your claim is false he hasn't or is not in the process of removing sanctions he made them stiffer. Obama was his immediate predecessor, so despite it being very inconvenient for your arguments, it shows that Trump has made the sanctions tougher, and increased the Ukraines ability to defend itself which is the opposite of your hollow rhetoric.
I 1000% agree Crimea has the right to rejoin Russia. Do you disagree?
Denis:How can he removed sanction? He can't! The senate made sure he can't do anything even if he wants too. He did nothing voluntarily, forced to sign. The bipartisan senate force sanction on Russia, not trump! Trump was against the sanctions, and he didn't sign it for a long time. So stop lying, your profile face already is puking,no don't puke with your words.
I don't agree with Crimea being part of Russia! If they want to joined Russia, they can always migrate there! Russia wants every part of post soviet countries,part of which are inhabited by Russians to join them, do you agree with that too? They should have migrated to Russia when the USSR broke up!
The Yale, i'm not lying about anything. You speak in motives, and perceived agenda's. I speak in the facts as they are, sanctions have never been tougher.
As far as Crimea, it's past is sorid to say the least. Center for the slave trade, from medieval to modern times. It became part of Russia after the Muslim Ottoman empire was defeated in the 1700's, and became a better place for it. The people who consider themselves Russian wanted to rejoin Russia, and voted overwhelmingly to do so. What gives you or any other necon the moral authority to tell them what to do? As far as any other former part of the Soviet Union, it would be a case by case basis, it's not a simple one size fits all situation.
I'm glad you are so continually engaged with my avatar, it is a great piece of artwork.
It's clearly mentioned that Congress and Senate passed Russia sanction,not trump! You love showering trump with all the credits for things he never supported! Wow! That's something nobody will remember, history will give credit to the Congress and Senate,not trump! But you can teach alternative facts to people, the only thing that matters is the facts that go down the history.
http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/397860-mcconnell-calls-for-senate-hearings-on-russia-sanctions
If the Russians living here demand referendums to join Russia, we should give it to them, if the blacks and natives demand their own homelands,we should give it to them applying your logic, right?
You and me have no rights to say what Russians in post soviet Baltic countries have right to! These countries have fought hard for their freedom - they didn't fight their freedom in the 1st place, to be broken up by Russia. You and me, or for that matter, any american don't have right to dictate what these Baltic states should do. We didn't go through their history or their struggle to even comment on what rights Russia have on them or what they should give up
"If the Russians living here demand referendums to join Russia, we should give it to them, "
Lol I missed the history lesson that day. I didn't know the US was part of Russia at some point in history, stretch of faulty logic much.
"You and me have no rights to say what Russians in post soviet Baltic countries have right to! "
EXACTLY, that's what I have been saying to you, none of our business, your the one who said they should migrate to mother Russia, pick a side and stay with it!
Denis,
Did'nt know you are blind,not only dumb! You are the first one to say "I 1000% agree Crimea has the right to rejoin Russia. Do you disagree?"
You never said "its none of our business".
You picked your side, so I picked mine!
Trump is not the father,mother of USSR to grant referendums on Crimea.
We don't have rights to comment on other countries' sovereignty and rights.
If referendums come here, you don't want that be it Calexit or native exit or black exit. But you think you have a right to say in other countries referendums,huh ?
TheyYale, try reading what you posted. You are the biggest hypocrite I have ever encountered on HL Once again you revert to name calling, sometimes I think I'm dealing with a kid in middle school. For years on various topics I have consistently been non interventionist, pretty much all over the world. You on the other hand railed against what happened to Crimea, what could happen in the Ukraine, or Syria, and then follow up with "We don't have rights to comment on other countries' sovereignty and rights".LOL, HYPOCRITE!!!! Like I said pick a side and stay with it. Your Calexit, and black exit are ridiculous comparisons to Crimea but then consider the source.
"Or CalExit...."
Buh-Bye! Don't let Nevada hit you in the ass on your way out!
Denis,
You being a non Ukrainian and non Russian stated openly ASKED ME "I 1000% agree Crimea has the right to rejoin Russia. Do you disagree?"
I said I disagreed and then Russia has no rights to demand referendums and trump has no business to dip his nose into Putin's offer.
If you are a big fan of referendums, then you should support it in your home country first, before commenting on other countries whose history and culture you know nothing about.
Don't worry JR, California is bigger than Nevada,it will just smash it with it's big feet in it's way out if Calexit happens! :-)
TheYale, I'm actually 1/4 Ukrainian second generation by heritage, and heard many stories about life there from my Grandmother and other family members who immigrated here.
"If you are a big fan of referendums, then you should support it in your home country first, before commenting on other countries whose history and culture you know nothing about."
Clearly I know a lot more than you about the history of the Ukraine, and Crimea. It's not that I'm a huge fan of referendums, I'm a huge fan of letting foreign countries determine their destiny without out our interference. You on the other hand knowing nothing, think the people living in Crimea should not be allowed to vote on their destiny, and anyone living there who doesn't like it should move Russia. Like i said you are the ultimate hypocrite saying we don't have the right to comment on other countries sovereignty and rights, and with the other side of your mouth telling the people living in Crimea what's right for them. I'm off to get some work done. Feel free to contradict yourself some more.
Denis,
I don't believe a word you say Denis. Sorry, to say that but I just don't trust your Ukrainian link. I know how these Baltic states suffered under the Russians. There are many Ukrainians here in these town, recent immigrants. Go and talk to them. If Russia demands referendums in every Baltic states, like how Putin has been saying for a long time that all Russian inhabited lands in post USSR countries should be part of Russia. Well, even if you have Ukrainian heritage, you don't have any right to speak on behalf of Ukraine just because of your 1/4 Ukrainian lineage. Ukraine is just the beginning for Russia. Every Baltic states live in fear of annexation by Russia using the referendum theory.
I stand by what I say, you support referendums in Crimea for Russians BUT you don't support referendums for your own countrymen in California. That's speaks for itself what hypocrisy is. Practice what you preach at home first!
kb2755: A different opinions/views from another person (different from those of trump worshippers here like JR, Skippy,yourself, Denis, that sidekick metsman,etc etc) are deemed as troll.
Thanks for letting me know.
Anyone who is not a trump worshippers is a troll here folks!
TheYale, "I don't believe a word you say Denis" How convenient, check my ancestry.com DNA, maybe they are lying too?
"you don't have any right to speak on behalf of Ukraine", Where did I do that. What part of self determination don't you understand.
"I stand by what I say, you support referendums in Crimea for Russians BUT you don't support referendums for your own countrymen in California. That's speaks for itself what hypocrisy is. Practice what you preach at home first!"
Wrong again I support the people in Crimea deciding for themselves. California has never been a sovereign state since Europeans settled here, again it's a Dumb analogy, and again consider the source.
TheYale the fact that you have to use a term “Trump Worshippers” shows you are a troll. Who are you to question Denis’s heritage? Like he has nothing better to do than to lie about where his DNA comes from. You come off as a very angry unhinged person. You should be more concerned that the Democrats still haven’t found a message. They’re more interested in chasing after the wind hoping that Mueller can do enough damage that people will vote for them than coming up with change that people want. If this 28 year old Hispanic woman from NY is the future of that party you’re in for a rude awakening.
I stand by what I say. 1/4 ukranian blood on an American who has never lived there, he doesn't have any entitlement. It's no bloody american business to give away Baltic states to the Russians. We have no rights to do that, be it a person who 1000 % american with Ukrainian blood or not.
Metsman: so you don't work, all you do is sidekick and serve others all day long? I dare say I don't believe Denis again, so what are you gonna do buddy? I don't believe a word from a flip flop mouth. I say it again and again!
TheYale I guarantee you couldn't do my job so spare me your insanity. You're twisting what Denis said. Learn reading comprehension...
Hasn't it all been said and more here by now? No one is listening - I said listening - to anyone - so what is the point? what's the prize?
There is no prize. TheYale just likes to seem smarter than everyone in his own mind.
Snowflake Metsman got offended by the term trump worshipers and said using it makes TheYale a troll and yet "trump derangement syndrome" is used throughout this thread. How is it any different?
TheYale, "It's no bloody american business to give away Baltic states to the Russians. We have no rights to do that, be it a person who 1000 % american with Ukrainian blood or not."
How did we do that? They were never ours to give away. Just curious for someone who talks so tough about how we should stand up to the Russians in Syria, Crimea ect, are you in the armed services, or have you ever been? Do you have any kids in the armed services you would like send into battle, or are you just another loudmouth necon, all talk as long as someone else does the fighting. As far as you believing my heritage I could care less at this point. It's there for anyone to see.
Metsman works here 24*7, 7 days a week. He can't help it.
P.S.: FDA just approved a drug which totally CURES for trump derangement syndrome(TDS), it's called REZINE!
Denis: if we are not going to war for Montenegro, we are not going into Ukraine or Crimea either. Period. If you approved of referendum in Crimea,maybe sent a letter of approval to Putin,CC trump.
TheYale, just as I expected. There are no Americans who I have LESS respect for than those who talk tough as long as someone else does the fighting.
Denis,
By your own logic what do you think of the most toughest mouth president trump who thinks that captured POW americans are not heroes for returning home,but he himself dodged 5 drafts after attending military college? Another hypocrisy!
TheYale, I'm talking about YOU personally, tough talking guy as long as someone else is doing the fighting. Fraud and hypocrite. Done!
Denis,
Before talking to me, I want you to take a deep breathe and apply your own logic "tough loud mouth but someone else fighting" to your GOD Trump. If you are ready to mock me for that you should also mock trump for not having fought 5 times, when he was given the chance. Why different yardstick for trump and me!??
Because hypocrisy runs in you! Trump is toughest mouth and he mocks mc cain for fighting for America and you clap and cheer trump for doing that! There goes your right to question me about my military service to this country.
Reasonable I’m not offended at all. TheYale has shown how completely unhinged he is. Or is it a she… The diagnosis of TDS is perfect. I thought this thread was about North Korea? Oh that’s right they’re not launching anymore missiles… So there’s nothing to talk about there…
If you recall the debates, Only Trump, Rand Paul, and Bernie Sanders spoke for LESS military intervention abroad. Hillary was talking more intervention, and sabre rattling. Rand Paul was my first choice, but between Hillary and Trump it was no contest. When I voted for Obama over Romney it was because I knew he was a fraud, from a family who never had a single man serve this country. I'm last person to applaud Trump denigrating McCain who is a hero. Again though I am talking about YOU, the fact that YOU are a fraud. Tough talk but never served, and I'm sure never would.
Then it turned into the children at the border, gee crickets chirping over that news topic.
"Rand Paul was my first choice, but between Hillary and Trump it was no contest."
+1
"When I voted for Obama over Romney"
Well lookee there... an OBAMA voter who voted for Trump. Hey Yale, you DO realize that's how Trump won, right? It's not a bunch of redneck hillbilly larry the cable guys who made Trump the victor... it was MODERATES who KNEW BETTER than to vote for the lying fraud that HRC is, as well as any more years of the democrat platform.
And now the new strategy is to start electing people so far left they're openly socialist?? Good luck with that.
I am so sorry, but I don't believe a word that comes out of you like "I voted for Obama"
You talk tough too Denis, have you serve? If talking tough demands serving your country in military, then have your pack of trump worshippers serve?
Bad news Yale....
"Satellite images show that North Korea has begun dismantling major facilities at a rocket launching site used to test long-range ballistic missiles, a U.S. think tank said.
The dismantlement has been made as a follow-up to North Korean leader Kim Jong Un's pledge at the June 12 summit to dismantle one of the missile test sites.
CBS News identified it as the Sohae station that Kim promised to destroy, citing U.S. government officials in June."
https://www.upi.com/North-Korea-removes-key-facilities-at-missile-launching-station/4211532415561/
source:
UPI, United Press International, rated as "Least Biased" and "Factual Reporting: HIGH"
JR: Dismantling nuclear sites doesn't meana thing as long as they have bunch of ICBMs.
Part II: the Putin puppet that Mets just loves to love :>)
Recently, Rump named his public enemy list for punitive actions, which amazingly, looks like Putin's list of American's he wants to deny free speech. Sorry Don, the only thing you will remove is America’s ability to ask these people for future help on anything sensitive --- you know --- like the important stuff these folks are experts in……
in 2017, Trump proposed cyber defense cooperation with Russia offering a joint Cyber Security team. Yeah, he did that and thought Putin's similar offer during the recent summit "fabulous." Trump denies Russian cyber-attacks on US soil, does nothing to prevent future occurrences. Trump closed the Cybersecurity Coordinator Office until Congress intervened. NSA head Admiral Rogers notes Trump won't authorize counter cyber-attacks “where they originate.”
Trump killed the 6-person State Dept. sanctions-coordination office replacing 6 with one incompetent part-time guy monitoring sanctions. Gives Putin pretty much a free hand.
Then there’s the overt acts that help destroy the alliances that kept us stronger since WWII. Whether you feel programs are right or wrong, these are acts against a world alliance towards Trump's concept of nativism. Trump trashes the Paris climate accord, the Trans Pacific Partnership, attacks NATO Article 5, all of which weakens the transatlantic alliance, Putin’s enemy. Trump publicly supports Brexit; destroying the EU is Putin’s dream. In 2018, asked French President Macron, “Why don’t you leave the EU?” saying he’s got a better deal; works for Putin. Trump is rude to partners publicly at major world-events, Merkel, May and Marron, praises Putin and Kim Jong Un. Trump threw Starburst in front of Merkel during the 2018 G7 saying: “Here, Angela. Don’t say I never give you anything.” Trump supported pro-Putin buddy, Le Pen in the 2017 French presidential election. Trump’s new Ambassador in Berlin supports right-wing pro-Russian movements. He gives top secret info on the Israeli’s to visiting Russians. Trump has sown many seeds of distrust with our allies, weakening the North Atlantic Alliance to the point where we can’t even rely on getting intelligence from them anymore.
On 1/2018, Trumpers highlight Trump signing “yugest sanctions ever” against Russia. Delays, Trump missed all sorts of deadlines, called the sanctions "unconstitutional." Trump finally, past the deadline, signed to avoid the inevitable override to codify Obama’s sanctions, not Trumps. Then he pretends it was his idea. Only under force will Trump acquiesce against Putin.
On 5/2018, Trump ends our Iran deal. This brings Russia and Iran closer together than they have been in years. Russia expands its operations and now uses Iran’s air bases to support Assad.
On 6/2018, Trump tells Jordan's King he would bring home US troops in Syria. It’s a Putin dealmaker's dream. If Russians let our boys out safely, Trump concedes any future actions against Assad. Trump supports a free reign for Putin in Assad’s Syria. We call them before we bomb.
6/2018, Trump starts EU tariffs disrupting our global economic stability moving us towards a full trade war with the EU. This taxes, without representation, American’s pocketbooks, trade wars will work to Putin’s advantage. Trump has said he wants to withdraw the United States from the World Trade Organization, an organization Putin hates.
Then there’s the grab bag of subtle things Trump does that, while they have other Trump benefits, could make Putin smile; you decide. Trump calls the press the “enemy of the people.” Recently, he announces revocation of clearances for people exercising free speech as Trump dissidents. Trump publicly defends neo-Nazis often using racially-charged language. Once he tweeted three fake propaganda videos with Muslim migrants attacking whites. Trump actively institutes discriminatory policies against Muslims and Hispanics. Trump advances a multitude of fake conspiracy theories to undermine the democratic process, our institutions, and our rule of law. Birtherism, Deep State Blues, Obama Wire Taps, Clintons, Strzok Coup d’état, Democrats in DOJ/FBI, whatever. Trump has verbally firebombed DOJ, NSA, FBI, CIA, and law enforcement officers. He has attacked the Justice Department, intelligence agencies, and law-enforcement officers as being corrupt and illegal. Destroying reputations with lies, espousing fake conspiracies seeding distrust, and tearing down our institutions without repair. Are these good for America to make us great again or good for Putin?
TheYale how convenient not to believe me again. Old time posters here will remember my many anti Romney posts, and me mentioning I voted for Obama twice.
"You talk tough too Denis, have you serve? If talking tough demands serving your country in military",
Really I talk of non intervention, quote me somewhere else were I was talking different. No I didn't serve but every male member of my family except for me, and 1 grandfather has either been a cop, or served in the military. A few including my father who I never knew paid the ultimate price for their service, so unlike you I know first hand the sacrifices they make, and realize they are not pawns in a game. That's why I am not for putting Americans in harm's way unless it's in our own imperative national interest. You on the other hand with no personal experience can talk tough as long as it's someone else doing the fighting, FRAUD!
Did Mets just "people like you" me? Really? I'm a neighbor you know, not just one of those "you people" you love to hate.
Obama reaction to Crimea takeover noted some where above. As I am sure you know, but just forgot, Obama went Constitutional on this one asking Congress to approve actions. Hard to slide this one into Bush's 9/11 Terrorist act (although I think it fits :>). I am sure you just forgot to note that the Republican Congress did not grant approval for War; you know, the Constitutional way.
Obama reacted with some of the sanctions that Trump asked so many times to remove that Congress finally codified them so Trump couldn't give Putin what he likes. Before signing, Trump delayed, called them unconstitutional and, finally, past the deadline, was forced to sign to avoid the inevitable Congressional override. Congress therefore, not Trump, codified Obama’s sanctions, not Trumps. It was then that he spun the spin to pretend it was his idea which some gullible people, I am sure not you, believed.
As to today. It appears Crimean's desire to be part of Russia over Ukraine; then again even people who support Putin would rather not talk -- it's that scary to exercise free speech, many security clearances revoked :>) and worse. It's also certain that being part of Ukraine, given Russia, is a pretty bleak future for awhile, so might as well go with Ukraine's master, Putin. Even with Putin's stinky economy, Putin has brought rampant inflation, lower GDP, and no wages, Crimean's still seem to think it's better with Putin than with Ukraine.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-03-31/crimea-pays-a-high-price-three-years-after-russian-takeover
Given that, and given we don't want to jump into war in Ukraine, I guess Obama's feckless fallback to the Constitution using the wrong-minded Congress was the right way to go, right thing to do, after all.
SD I guess time will tell if those things make us better. You're hardly an expert though claiming Putin benefits. What is he the Emperor from Star Wars manipulating everyone for total world domination? LMAO... the sky is falling nonsense gets funnier every day...
Denis,
I respect your father's sacrifice for this country. But you are not entitled to question my loyalty or my readiness to serve for this country. Nobody can question that. I never said we should go to war with Russia over the baltics, all I said is we should never entertain Russia. Not entertaining Russia doesn't mean war. Please do not try to twist my tongue about what I said and what I implied. My bro-in-law serves in the military as we speak but I do not want to use his service to question the loyalty of people who don't agree with me. That's stooping low, is not me. Nobody can question my loyalty. It's shocking that you questions my loyalty just because I oppose appeasement of Putin and Russia by trump? As I said we are not going to give the baltics and Ukraine to Russia and we are not going to entertain Russia. Call me a traitor for that, I don't care. Ukraine or Crimea is not Trump's inherited property that he can negotiate it's future.
We have his DNA, but Denis has finally shown his true colors.
Denis admits voting for Obama TWICE. His participation in voter fraud proves he is illegal alien. As an IA, he probably got a free education on taxpayer dollars without paying any tax at all until in his teens. Has Latino name: Dennis is the Latino name for......wait for it......Dennis. Probably bought the farm on welfare. One of Met's "those people" no doubt. To avoid detection as an IA, rather than shove five families, two cadillacs, and ten large screen TVs into one room, he has one family staying in a couple of houses --- PV and the farm. Ssavvy AI.....He's proven pretty smart, his Latino friends call him the AI IA.
True story Denis: My DNA story pretty much matches yours, I have more Viking and less English. However I am Slovakian and you are Ukrainian. But we are both little eddie Munsters..... Weird.
"Nobody can question my loyalty."
Of course they can. Just like you question others'. Welcome to the real world.
I never question the loyalty of denis until he started questioning mine first, JR.
Well, JR, I don't answer to trump nor his used toilet papers like you. Just keep questioning whatever you want...till you get tired..I don't answer anyone ;-)
"the sky is falling nonsense gets funnier every day..." Not quite will planned and, via Trump, extremely lucky I would say to have such a puppet helping out. IMO at least, as is:
As I said: "Like any good low-funded rebel group, Putin puts low-cost spy initiatives into play with little coordination except at the Putin level. Lots of tentacles that don’t touch each other but report back to the source. Each oligarch controls a resource (coal god, steel god, etc.), they have vast sums of the people’s money to invest and investments are made for profit and for access/persuasion --- all of which goes back to the source – Putin. Likewise, the GRU and the banks are Putin’s to play with and mix with Oligarch backing as he desires."
He got really lucky with the Don.
Another example is the Russian Spy/NRA/RNC/Sexforaccess scandal. Probably won't even touch Trump's inner circle, unless by accident, but brewing all over the NRA reaching into the Republican Party ---- all controlled ultimately by Putin.
Remember who Putin is: he just project-manages all these efforts in a centralized fashion and no one really knows what each other project is doing. He's old school KGB, training in this.
Likewise, there's the reverse situation with Americans approaching Putin. Look at Manafort's past, he's with Russians twenty years ago doing his Manafort thing. Likewise Flynn and the rest of them doing their things. Manafort gets with Trump in the 90's, both are with the Russians, but probably not through the same contacts, and not doing the same things. Same with Flynn, same destination, Putin, but different path in. But one thing is common: when you owe your career, your livelihood to the Russians, there is a very good chance you answer the phone when it rings and will try your hardest to answer your livelihoods request.
How else can you explain all this crazy stuff I have documented? I know --- crazy. Sure.
"Well, JR, I don't answer to trump nor his used toilet papers like you."
LOL. I think I hear your mommy calling you in for your nap....
Some of these stories (a great many imo) are too fantastic even for a great spy movie. Yet some believe it hook, line and sinker based on solely on the six degrees of separation Kevin Bacon game ;-)
Personally I think some folks are willfully conflating being an ahole with the belief that fantastic fictional stories are actually real. Incredible leaps of faith are needed to get there imo, and simply *wanting* the fiction to be true is enough for some to become modern-day zealots lol.
Where’s the beef???? :-)
SD too funny, probably have common ancestors. I totally was shocked being English though. Not in the family stories.
" Each oligarch controls a resource (coal god, steel god, etc.), they have vast sums of the people’s money to invest and investments are made for profit and for access/persuasion --- all of which goes back to the source – Putin. Likewise, the GRU and the banks are Putin’s to play with and mix with Oligarch backing as he desires"
they are 9th in the world in terms of economic power. where are these vast riches to invest?
https://tradingeconomics.com/russia/gdp
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2014/jul/27/lindsey-graham/graham-russia-has-economy-size-italy/
Russia has a GDP a little larger than Italy
I didn't say vast riches, I said: ""Like any good low-funded rebel group, Putin puts low-cost spy initiatives into play with little coordination except at the Putin level. Lots of tentacles that don’t touch each other but report back to the source. Each oligarch controls a resource (coal god, steel god, etc.), they have vast sums of the people’s money to invest and investments are made for profit and for access/persuasion --- all of which goes back to the source – Putin. Likewise, the GRU and the banks are Putin’s to play with and mix with Oligarch backing as he desires."
I said "each oligarch.....have vast sums of the people's money to invest"
You IT types much smarter than me, but anything really high tech going on here or is it "low-funded...low-cost...initiatives?" I think the Russian Spy/NRA/RNC/Sexforfavors might be the most expensive thing they may have discovered so far and that certainly was not high tech; the world's oldest profession meets the world's stupidest men is more like it :>)
But the money is decentralized amongst the oligarchs. The people are peasants and have very few assets. So you have Putin with Putin dollars, the next ring is oligarchs with oligarch dollars and then their protectors, experts, manager and other professionals and then the peasants....Lots of peasants. .That's autocracy for you. Case in point. Russia has about 50 billionaires and the going rate starts at about 7B for the lower tier of 25 and up to $20B for the top tier. Italy has over 100 billionaires with amounts across the board. Democracies, Republics, and even Socialists tend to have greater diversity, financial diversification with assets and wealth being less centralized and more distributed than under a autocracy.
So, small number of people holding the wealth, holding the power, and exercising it via spy programs under Putin's management, knowledge, whatever. It's the Mafia Management Model. That's Russia, IMO. (and I really have not studied it much, so other ideas more than welcome)
The one Trump desires to bring to America. At least that's who he respects. At least that's what he constantly tells us. And that's what he has modeled his business upon. A Don, his family, some experts/fixers/professionals and lots of peasants. Listen.
Interesting - so you believe the fusion GPS dossier they got a FISA warrant with is real then.
You can't be serious, SD. Your posts read like historical fiction. There was more convincing evidence to convict OJ of murder, and even he got off LOL.
Your confirmation bias is through the roof, you have let it grow into a wild monster.
I think it's all well and good to throw your arms in the air and say "historical fiction," "confirmation bias," "too fantastic," "great spy movie," echoing the administration's fake news claim. Far easier than refuting the facts, especially with facts. I get it. And it's beyond a great spy movie; I think Cohen's Trump Tower Moscow, Russian pay for access scheme, and the Russian Spy/NRA/RNC/Sex-for-favors are all in the "collusion" area and go way beyond what anyone would think could plausibly be a great spy novel. It's science fiction stuff.
JIT is correct that there's no smoking gun. Yet. Did you expect anyone to run up to the NYT and say, "I did it." The investigation will unfold, unfortunately balanced against a man who knows what Mueller knows and still remains, and a Congress that will not risk the wrath of Trump. Mueller is not going to preview what he's got to Congress as long as the likes of Trump-whispering Nunes are slithering through the halls, and he is trying his darnedest to protect the office of the President by only letting out a few hints for Trump to chew on. That's just the dynamics of this game given the players and the process.
In summary, I think I have shown that Trump and many of his associates have long business ties and massive financial backing from Russia. Many owe their total careers and livelihoods to Russia. For Trump there's Bayrock - Russian mobster, Duetsche Bank - Russian Money Launderer, and numerous direct deals with Russians. A trail of cash deals in a credit-based market.
I think I have shown that the Trump campaign had a plethora of Russian sympathizers. Many reach-outs, meetings, talks about stolen emails that a foreign nation holds on Americans, talks about creating secret backchannels for future communications, at the like. Many indictments, guilty pleas, and jail time. Nothing at the time of the campaign, yet, but then again, that's why you plead guilty and turn state's evidence because you're guilty of something larger than you plead AND you have something Mueller is willing to bargain on. So not quite innocent either.
Can you name a campaign with more indictments, arrests, and jail time BEFORE the Special Prosecutor unveils his report?
We all, except Trump, know that Russia meddled with our 2016 National and State elections. We all know that Russia has a giant disinformation program underway in America. And we all know that Trump is doing less than nothing, he is actively destroying programs that affect these actions by the Russians.
I think I have shown that the Trump administration is replete with Russian sympathizers, people at high levels that go back with the Russians, some times for decades.
Most important, I have shown a myriad of Trump administration actions that favor Russia, some meant to just sow division, distrust and hatred but often at the detriment of the security of America.
Collusion smoking gun? Of course not. Really weird to be a Russian sympathetic nation. Oh yeah, on so many levels.
Now Trump claims that the Russians will be helping the Democrats in the mid-terms. Of course, Trump offers no support, no actions, no defense, against the Russian attacks but instead claims he is the toughest ever on Russia so they like Dems better. Guess he missed Vlad saying "Don's my man," last week.....
Do you believe that one too?
SD just stop... this investigation has been going on forever and they still have nothing on Trump. If they haven't found anything by now they never will. This is just a ruse to help elect democrats for the mid-terms.
OK, I’m going full rogue here and say Peter Strzok is an American hero. And I wonder....
Why do we crucify a guy making pillow talk to a girl while we elect a guy admitting forced groping to be President? How is this treason? Tweets can be treasonable?
Strzok explained the timing of the tweets against the background of Trump tweets and actions at the same time. Makes sense to me. Reasonable doubt. Listen to his defense. Is that really treasonous?
Why do we crucify a guy for an affair while we elect a guy admitting paying off a porn star (admitting spanking involvement?), paying off a Playmate lover?
Why do we fire our best field agent, most experienced American security against the Russians while we let our President who gives secrets away to the Russians meet privately with the Russians?
Why do we crucify a guy for Trump bias when the same guy held back on Russian investigation information that would have ended Team Trump? Where’s the bias in that?
Besides pillow talk, has anyone actually found actions that show bias?
Why do we keep firing those who seem really good, really experienced at national security, especially where the Russians are concerned? Seems weird to me.
"I think I have shown that the Trump administration is replete with Russian sympathizers, "
ok, Senator McCarthy...
But still you can bring no facts to bear JR. Can you disprove ANY of my allegations re Russian sympathizers in the administration? There's a pile of them, pick one.
Meanwhile, how are you on "taxation without representation?" or tariffs? Still your guy? Now that the King has decided which Americans will face his tax, losers and winners, are you down for that one too?
Does the fact that Americans spend more on tariffed products, lose business, and now farmers will be reimbursed from a depression-era subsidy law using deficit tax dollars for their loses, sound like MAGA progress to you?
Can the auto and other heavy steel companies be far behind for stepping up to the Trump tough for a hand out due to having faced taxation without representation?
Or does it sound like we're about to fun afoul of the WTO for dumping?
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/24/trumps-12-billion-aid-for-farmers-risks-unintended-consequences.html
I don't know but this does not sound like the act of a savvy businessman much less someone who knows anything about American history.
"But still you can bring no facts to bear JR. "
I don't need to: you haven't provided any real evidence, it's all conjecture. It's like you're writing a whodunit novel.
"Can you disprove ANY of my allegations"
Again, I don't ned to: that's not how it works; YOU must PROVE guilt, "innocent until PROVEN guilty", remember?
What I find incredibly naive on your part is that you can't seem to understand that if anyone had enough evidence to impeach him, it would have happened. The only possible exception is that maybe they are saving it as an "October surprise", so as to impeach him as well as help the democrat midterms simultaneously. We'll have to wait for October to find out.
I mean, really... I remember several people here saying "he won't last 6 months!" (before he's impeached/removed) LOL. If the evidence was there, he would have been. The democrats and the press would have made sure of it. You're on a fishing expedition in someone's pool, praying that a fish somehow accidentally made it's way into the pool... because ANYTHING is possible....LOL
It's going to be a long ride for you, I'm afraid.
Exactly JR. All this investigation is, is a smudge campaign. Now they’re wasting tax payer money investigating Cohen’s tapes which have amounted to nothing more than an accusation that the President slept with a Playboy model years ago. Who the F cares… What does that have to do with his presidency?! They’re just carrying it on in hopes it’ll keep people from voting for him again in 2020 as well as for Republicans this year. We’re a year and a half into this investigation. And I think part of it was going on before Mueller came on board. Show your cards or STFU already… I’m tired of listening to this nonsense every day.
Didn't Strzok text Lisa Page two days after Mueller was appointed that there was "no big there, there.
https://consortiumnews.com/2018/07/23/moon-strzok-no-more-lisa-page-spills-the-beans/
“Didn't Strzok text Lisa Page two days after Mueller was appointed that there was "no big there, there.”
Of course. But for some, a whole bunch of “little there, there’s” is the perfect excuse to create an environment of fear, uncertainty, and doubt, using the age old “if you repeat it enough times fiction becomes fact”. And boy oh boy have they run with it for what, almost two years now. Even when it’s admitted that there’s no real “smoking gun” (aka no evidence at all, only Kevin Bacon) the FUD must persist regardless of how foolish it looks.
' . . . disprove ANY of my allegations . . . "
This is a false construct. Can't 'prove' a negative, and the question already self affirms it has nothing of substance to it. It outs itself as nothing more than 'your' 'allegations', which revels that you wrote them yourself.
I rate this method of discussion as FALSE. (Intellectually dishonest)
Looks like Trump got the EU to work on reducing or eliminating Tarifs on US products.
GreyHawk --- You are correct, I misspoke. Try disprove any of the facts shown supporting my allegations..... Of course if you had read, and put into context the rest of the sentence: "Can you disprove ANY of my allegations re Russian sympathizers in the administration." which, when you looked included the facts that many in top levels on the Trump administration have been in cahoots, financially, career-wise, for decades. The allegation is that they are Russian sympathizers, which you might dispute.
However, I have also listed a pretty good number of Trump administration actions that favor the Russians which might move some, IMO, myself included, to allege that we are in Putin's pocket.
So, I have shown facts as to:
- Trump's financial reliance on Russian investment, purchase, and sale
- Trump's administrations high number of people financially benefiting from years of work, sometimes decades, with the Russians
- Trump administration actions that favor the Russians
Those are just facts, have at em if you think in error. As to what this means, obviously I would never be able to get a smoking gun for reasons stated: guilty people don't often jump up and say "I did it."
As to whether or not you think this is hinky, or Trump's in Putin's pocket, that's what I allege and I understand where you might have a different opinion. After all, you, JR, Jit, Skippy, Mets, and KB all share something now with Melania and Hillary. And a one and a two and a...….
"Sometimes it's hard to be a woman
Giving all your love to just one man.
You'll have bad times
And he'll have good times,
Doin' things that you don't understand
But if you love him you'll forgive him,
Even though he's hard to understand
And if you love him oh be proud of him,
'Cause after all he's just a man
Stand by your man,
Give him two arms to cling to" (Tammy W)
Pretend it’s 2020, would you really vote for:
A guy who defrauded students with his fake University?
A guy who defrauded donors, gave money to politics, from his fake charity personal honeypot?
A guy who paid off fake breasts with untraceable cash from fake companies?
A guy who admits he likes groping women and grabbing them by the pussy?
A guy who deals with Russia’s Bayrock and Russian money-laundering Duetsche Bank.
A guy who will tell secrets to the Russians right from the Oval Office?
A guy who doubles his club rates, gets all sorts of foreigners and lobbyists to join and then spends his time being overheard on national security secrets while dining there.
A guy who spends more time on vacation that any other President.
A guy who kills one working nuclear proliferation deal while claiming “mission accomplished” on his own feckless deal
A guy who practices taxation without representation (tariffs)
A private Billionaire businessman that won't reveal his taxes.
A guy who passes a tax bill granting his own estate $3B in profit
A guy who strips your security clearance if you don’t agree with him.
A guy who likes to lock children up.
Well if he is running against Bernie, Elizabeth Warren or quite possibly Hillary then the choice is easy. That said, I think Trump is a buffoon but at least he is keeping most of his campaign promises. If Hillary had won, we wouldn't have found out about the nefarious actions of the so called leaders in our intelligence groups. That was the plan, remember.
KB: What nefarious actions of our intelligence groups been found guilty of? Is anyone investigating?
Meanwhile......the Russian Spy/NRA/Rep.Party/Sex-for-favors court trial activities continue. Today, the defense requested the ability to broadcast discovery material. DENIED: because of all the other investigations that they potentially touch -- foreshadowing.....cue the suspenseful music. JIT, turn away, you can't handle the scary stuff -- allegations....:>)
Defense tried to insinuate that the Russian spy should not be remanded, she is not a flight risk saying she, the 29-yr old cutie Russian FSB operative, had a stable relationship with her dowdy 59-yr old SD Republican Operative, fundraiser Paul Erickson. Kind of shot down on this (see picture) given her interviews where she basically states "get me away from this guy...." Plus the fact she offered sex for influence jobs to others sort of dimmed the light on this.
The fact that she is employed by a Russian oligarch billionaire sort of tells you where her loyalties lie --- SD 59-yr old Republican or Billionaire Russian....
Guess what --- this oligarch's son worked as a volunteer on Trump's campaign. Go figure, another Russian. He was also one of the half dozen Russian billionaires attending Trump's inauguration; you can spot them easily. He stayed at Trump's Hotel, how convenient. To spot the half dozen oligarchs cheering Trump's success, it easy. They're the ones in the front row seats...…It's good to be King.
There were zero Italian billionaires in the audience.
Meanwhile.....the NRA has not commented on their involvement with the Russians....Strange given the linkage developing between Russian money, Russian influence NRA donations, and NRA campaign financing. I would think they would be trigger happy to deny.....
Not to worry gun lovers and patriots, because about the time of Helsinki, literally on the same day Butina was arrested, Trump's Treasury ".....announced late Monday, charities and political groups still must provide the names and addresses of donors, but other nonprofits don’t. "
That's right, in a move for transparency in campaign financing, non-profits like the NRA don't have to provide donor information....Not sure which NRA this is, general or NRA-ILA --- you guys can fill in that blank. Affects the transparency of many groups include labor unions, social clubs, part of AARP, Chamber of Commerce, even Koch Bro's Americans for Prosperity.
Somehow in draining the swamp this seems like a muddy step backwards for America and any sort of campaign finance reform no matter which division of NRA and AARP this hits. The amazing part is the timing on the eave of Butina's arrest given her suspected NRA ties and infiltrations.
BREAKING NEWS: Govt. at less than 50% to return kids before tomorrow's court-ordered deadline. Govt says 914 kids will never be returned by being deemed ineligible. Looks like stormy weather tomorrow.
SD were you asleep yesterday when it was announced the EU is going to make an agreement with us that should end up being more fair for trade?
http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2018/07/26/star-wars-star-mark-hamill-mocks-trumps-destroyed-walk-fame-star-in-new-tweet.html
I think Mark Hamill has gone cuckoo since having to play a horrible version of Luke Skywalker and starring in the worst SW movie of all time....
Mets, so??
Actually I did catch it but don't listen to Trump anymore. In case you hadn't noticed, he lies a lot. I mean a lot. In case JR is reading this and wants to tediously remind us it's just a reverse of Obama and Hillary, please note: Hillary was never President and no, the only reverse here is Don lies a lot, Obama upon occasion.
As of May, Trump's lies, that he was caught on, reached over 3,000 for 466 days or 6.5 lies per day. Of course that doesn't count the private lies like all of the whoppers told to Melania: "I just read Playboy, I don't look at the models....."
Flippy-Flops, Mistaken Words would/wouldn't, contradicts himself, fake news repetitions, forwarding fake videos, factual exaggerations, false credit taking and out n out whoppers; he's done em all. He even has developed a tactic where he lies, covers it with a lie, and then goes back to the original lie to cover the second lie. Liemageddon is what I call it. He just did that with the "meddling, what meddling" where forever he denied it, then he was forced to accept it, and 24 hours later he amended to "I know the Russians were involved but could have been those other guys...." Or after delaying/denying Russian sanctions, he was forced, really forced that is, to codify Obama's sanctions, he then took credit, said he was the toughest on Russia, and now claims the next Russian meddling will be for the Democrats because he so tough Putin wouldn't dare. Except 24 hours earlier, Putin said "I want Don to be President." Here's the best part. The White House video version of the Trumputin Press Conference has that part edited out. Just Putin's answer confirming the Presidential Bromance. Yeah, he lies that much.
While not illegal to lie to the public, this erodes our democracy, cheapens the office of the President making it a communications swamp, Worse yet, a nice proportion of America believes every one while the rest of American stop believing in any at all. Wonder how this affects our kids. I mean the cherry tree story kind of loses any meaning against Trump's tsunami of lies.
So I wait until the fact checkers weigh in, and then until the White House issues all the obvious corrections, at least to the casual observer. Just not Trump's observations or his true believers like Mets.
But I am glad the Trade Wars are over, the Korean peninsula is nuke free, and France/Germany/England love us again. I am sorry 11 million Arabs were on the roofs in Newark, 5 billion Mexican rapists live in Warren County, and kids like camping in tents as long as there is AC he said with extreme sarcasm.
Thanks for the heads up Mets, keep the faith baby, keep the faith.
OK, I did look Mets and what was actually said was ""We're starting the negotiation right now but we know very much where it's going," according to Trump. Then he told us all the wonderful peace, love, wood stock, things that were going to happen especially more soybeans, yuge numbers of soybeans,, so many soybean that my polls in soybean country might move from zero.
Physically, the tariffs are still in place, no soybean increases have occurred and these farmers are literally dying on the vine.
He's decided to work with the EU to fix the mess he caused plus hopefully resolve what he put the tariffs in place to resolve that didn't work. Maybe if he had been polite at the G7 meeting, he could have worked it out and skipped the stupid tariffs which, after all, are just taxation without representation to Americans. The King has said we must pay more for the good of the King. And now the King will subsidize the farmers that the King just taxed, for those taxes, all of which the King did by himself. Taxation without representation. High crimes yet? Was good enough one time in the past to get your spine up. How about now, patriot?
I think that means we accomplished the same fantastic agreement dealmaker deal that we just accomplished to free the Korean Peninsula of all nukes.
At least we didn't lock any EU kids up yet.
No, he trashed them at the expense of everyday Americans with a planned self-made media crisis event only to claim “mission accomplished” for saying “we’ll talk.” Good ratings to end Putin Week where actually, nothing was really accomplished on trade. We’ll talk.
Remember, even if there was an issue, he blew it up, everyday Americans suffered, he declared we’ll talk, the situation is the same as the neginning, and you applauded. Good ratings!
The artificial instability he enjoys causing, as the world’s 800-lb bully gorilla on the table, wrecks all sorts of havoc in the world.
I am grateful though, he’s making me rich and if he pulls soybeans back.to where they started by harvest, I will be golden. Hate to make money artificially on somebody elses pain though. Like counting cards and getting the dealer fired. Never did commodities before. He makes it so easy. Wonder how much his insiders made. Man, to have a few hours before those tarriff announcements. Probably have to be Russian though. I ain’t got no backchannel.
Glad you enjoyed the show.
I see the Goebbels technique is in full swing around here. The big lie. Say it often enough, loud enough and in different ways and pretty soon it becomes the truth.
The Big Lie technique is used by used by the MSM and the bulk of the entertainment industry on a daily basis.
Primary rules for the Big Lie technique are: Never allow the public to cool off; never admit a fault or wrong; never concede that there may be some good in your enemy; never leave room for alternatives; never accept blame; concentrate on one enemy at a time and blame him for everything that goes wrong; people will believe a big lie sooner than a little one; and if you repeat it frequently enough people will sooner or later believe it.
Don't buy it. Don't buy the hyperbole, the miss-associations, the illogical statements, the nonsensical spin. In short, don't buy into the fake news being spouted here as 'factual'. It ain't. Not by a long shot.
What nefarious actions of our intelligence groups been found guilty of? Is anyone investigating?
I see what you did there, no need to waste my time going through the Strzok, Comey, McCabe, Brennan and Clapper lies. Will anyone be convicted, of course not, most people in power don't for lying under oath.
Meanwhile Butina attended a meeting with Alesander Torshin, Russian Central Bank Deputy Governor and Obama Treasury Officials in 2015. He also mentioned that he would also be meeting with the NRA.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/23/politics/maria-butina-treasury-officials/index.html
"Primary rules for the Big Lie technique are: Never allow the public to cool off; never admit a fault or wrong; never concede that there may be some good in your enemy; never leave room for alternatives; never accept blame; concentrate on one enemy at a time and blame him for everything that goes wrong; people will believe a big lie sooner than a little one; and if you repeat it frequently enough people will sooner or later believe it."
Is that a quote from "The Art of the Deal"? Sounds like Trump to a tee... and you've swallowed it hook, line and sinker.
Surely you aren’t implying that Trump has exclusive access to “Big Lie” techniques, are you Ian?
I’d say that’s the current standard for our collective social interaction any more, thanks to agenda-driven politics and profit-driven “news”. Small truths, often times irrelevant but repeated ad nausium in a marginal context relative to the topic-of-the-day, are intended to give the public an *impression* of what the deliverer wants the truth to be. A feeling, instead of what is actually true, is the goal so that we are more easily persuaded. Psychology 101. And amazingly we, collectively, allow it.
If on the Big Lie, folks were slyly alluding to my recent entry on tariffs, there were no lies there at all, just facts. Besides, let's get real, when someone says "I see what you did there, no need to waste my time going through the Strzok, Comey, McCabe, Brennan and Clapper lies. Will anyone be convicted, of course not, most people in power don't for lying under oath" where we are looking for convictions often based on rumor, but "Trump's lies, that he said publicly, was caught red handed on, reached over 3,000 LIES for 466 days or 6.5 lies per day. Of course that doesn't count the private lies like all of the whoppers told to Melania: "I just read Playboy, I don't look at the models....." not so bad.....after all, everyone does it....
Of course, Strzok was accused of lying by some turd Representative Louie Gohmert while he tried to publicly shame him for lying to his wife over the affair, very 1950's, but no indictment. Of course Trump accused Comey of lying under oath, but he misquoted FOX, so that went no where, no indictments, I can keep going but I guess it depends on where you get your fake news. But if you are trusting rapid Representatives or Trump, I think your odds are not good. I'll take MSM over that any day of the week.
We have lots of indictments and convictions of Team Trump lying. That's getting to be common place.
Next up: looks like Don Jr. to be caught lying to Congress, under oath, on camera, and there may be confirming witnesses beyond Cohen, if they don't lie...…
We be on the inner family circle now. We have the financials, we have the financial wizard handling it all back to Fred Trump, the signals are getting stronger...…
Great quarter by the way, good jobs, GDP, etc. Too bad that's pre-tariffs...….And less than Obama's hot quarter in 2014 ---- so sad. But good news nonetheless. Now Don, pull those soybeans out of the fire: daddy needs new shoes!!! Trump economy --- better than bit coin, just as crazy.
I love SD back, it really shows us first hand how bad the liberals are loosing their minds with Trump in office....meanwhile I am sitting back, enjoying a beer and 401k increases while lmfao at the sheer panic in this thread alone!
I'm sitting back and wondering if I should tell my wife about the 5-figure raise I just got or keep that under my hat... I'm leaning towards not telling her. It'll be harder for her to spend it if she doesn't know she has it, lol.
ianimal - OMG, what kind of work do you do to get a 5-figure raise? Good for you. Not to fear, for the rest of us, Maxine Waters will probably be the dem nominee.
DannyC On one hand. I am not sitting back, watching my meager profits, while enjoying the pain of others like some people. How about those locked up kids that will never see their parents again, bet that really makes you happy. Or the farmers going broke so Don can get a meeting Make you laugh? On the other hand; alteady made some killings based on artificial Trump-economic crisis, caught soy beans going down; hope to catch it one more time snapping back.
So keep sitting around, drinking the afternoon away, watching. I got to make some real money while Trump continues to freak the market. More taxation without representation. More tarriffs. More artificial winners and losers. Can we pick on Canada again!! I need a free vacation this fall as Don becomes the only guy to have a great economy and losing his control on the US.
If its Friday, its Mueller time. You can just keep crying in your beer.
Maybe this will help those who are filled with rage: https://www.nj.com/entertainment/index.ssf/2018/07/we_went_nj_only_rage_room_and_yes_it_was_as_amazin.html?ath=63b4371e200ffc50099a99f922de8548#cmpid=nsltr_strycardrightbutton_single
Well the shortest running legal immigration policy mistake ever in US history is still not over. The zero tolerance mandatory separation and incarceration policy, that many here on HLife still support, is still bearing the evil fruit of its conception.
For donations for the children, here's a list. Of course, be careful as a Trump tragedy such as this does tend to bring out the scammers. ACLU is always safe: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/20/where-to-donate-to-help-immigrant-children-and-families-at-the-border.html
The Trump administration claims they met the court date for returning all the immigrant children they legally mistakenly separated from their parents in error only to be placed in expensive state-run tent cities and very expensive private facilities. All to send a media message how the US does not follow it's own global asylum policies, agreed upon in 1967, during the reign of Trump.
Some have said the government fudged the number by deeming anyone it couldn’t match with a parent in time as ineligible.
700 of the 2,500 kids, or about 1/3rd of them, are deemed ineligible, some with parents with court issues, the majority, 431 kids, because the parents are no longer in the country. Most of those have been deported before being reunited with their kids. These kids will enter the system and be probably be our problem for life; wonder if Trump will make them citizens under a new stolen-kid-citizenship law.
Did you hear the one about the little immigrant kid reunited with a parent they didn't recognize? 5 months at 4 years is a long time.
120 of the kid’s parents signed papers stating they did not want to be reunified; they waived their rights. Of course, the ACLU is all over this for the obvious coercion/communications issues as there’s a good chance people signed things they didn’t understand because they thought they had to.
Here’s a map of where the immigrants are, and how much it costs. Note that private facilities seem to cost more than state-run facilities. Oh yeah, I am guessing these folks have an agenda: https://www.freedomforimmigrants.org/detention-statistics/ If kept in tent cities, these 700 kids will cost $1/2M a day, $17M a month or over $200M a year. Previous to Trump's shortest-lived immigration policy in history, the taxpayer cost for many of these kids was $0.
Trump said, mission accomplished, no more North Korean nuclear threat over. Trump said: “North Korea was our biggest and most dangerous problem. No longer - sleep well tonight!” After the fourth, Trump announced “signed a wonderful paper saying they’re going to denuclearize their whole thing. It’s going to all happen.”
On the North Korea front, only hours after Pompeo claimed we’re in good faith negotiations, the North Koreans called Pompeo a gangster.
Trump, in his inevitable form, began looking for scapegoats: “China, on the other hand, may be exerting negative pressure on a deal because of our posture on Chinese Trade, Hope Not!”
The next meeting on war reparations, scheduled for July 12th, was blown off by the Koreans, rescheduled for July 15th, with no details provided beyond, “we made progress” are known.
I guess we are still talking, that’s something. But it ain’t mission accomplished or wonderful or happening…..yet.
JIT said
"Surely you aren’t implying that Trump has exclusive access to “Big Lie” techniques, are you Ian?
I’d say that’s the current standard for our collective social interaction any more, thanks to agenda-driven politics and profit-driven “news”. Small truths, often times irrelevant but repeated ad nausium in a marginal context relative to the topic-of-the-day, are intended to give the public an *impression* of what the deliverer wants the truth to be. A feeling, instead of what is actually true, is the goal so that we are more easily persuaded. Psychology 101. And amazingly we, collectively, allow it."
Why so many people (certainly a majority here on HL) cannot figure this out by now is astounding.
"Why so many people (certainly a majority here on HL) cannot figure this out by now is astounding." +1
Did FauxNews tell you to post that image? Hannity or Carlson? Or was it the Russians?
Update: Trump says there are no nukes on the Peninsula.
WAPO reports more NK ICBM missile development underway. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-spy-agencies-north-korea-is-working-on-new-missiles/2018/07/30/b3542696-940d-11e8-a679-b09212fb69c2_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.a1333172393c
And you know there's Russian technology and IP in those puppies for sure.
On the incarcerated immigrant kids: "U.S. District Judge Dolly Gee in Los Angeles ordered the Trump administration to obtain consent or a court order before administering any psychotropic medications to migrant children, except in cases of dire emergencies." (WAPO)
Oh man, how bad is this going to get.....
Meanwhile --- Manafort trial, phase 1, mostly Manafort so mostly a test for Mueller. If he loses, not good as Ghoulliani pressure PR tactics will escalate, he wins.... Only ten years involved so won't get life until phase 2.
Meanwhile --- the Russian Spy NRA infiltration to influence Republican party with sex for favors story continues: how about this: "Tennesseans know the old truism: If you lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas. The universal meaning is simple: Be careful of the company you keep. Ask Republican U.S. Rep. Marsha Blackburn." Hey, that's Tennessee. https://www.timesfreepress.com/news/opinion/times/story/2018/jul/30/sohn-nras-russilink-hties-blackburn/475893/
Gotta ask: who gets the movie rights on this one!
That's the same person(Tolshin) who met with Obama's Treasury Officials along with Butina in 2015. They seem to get around.
Yes, and then she infiltrated the NRA, traded some sex, got them to introduce her to Republican operator for some sex and then some llc formations where they cashed $10,000 donations triggering the FBI and got the NRA some Russian donations, the NRA gave 30m to Trump who was having sex with porn stars and bunnies and then convinced the NRA to help support Russian gun rights; there’s an oxymoron for you — Russian rights...
So, I’m sorry...did you say met with Obama? Got any sex, money, politics, Russians and guns in that?
Because I have tape of her asking Trump if he would bendover to Putin wirh him answering in the affirmative. Did Obama do something like that?
I-got pictures of NRA bigwigs partying up in Moscow like it’s commrade-1999.
Good luck coming out on top on this one.
SD you do realize the Manafort trial and what they charged him with has nothing to do with the campaign right?
“SD you do realize the Manafort trial and what they charged him with has nothing to do with the campaign right?”
Why would that matter? ;-)
They’re just trying to create perception. If he did this other stuff surely he did stuff during the campaign. The sheep like SD gobble it all up.
Mets: "Meanwhile --- Manafort trial, phase 1, mostly Manafort so mostly a test for Mueller" so yes....
However, in the fraud they may get into Manafort's promise to make some guy head of the Army so that Manafort could get his $16M loan so that could touch the Trump Administration. This was during and just after his work directly with Trump.
Also, as a test for Mueller, if he loses --- witch hunt. Pressure to end investigation builds. If he wins, one more notch on the gun that has a handful of notches already, investigation continues.....
Also.... I expect more and more information is presented to the American public as to the Trump/Manafort relationship over the decades which Trump has summed your truth to be "I think he only worked for me for 59 days or so...…"
Hmmmm: try this: "Although Trump is correct that the case against Manafort may not provide any direct evidence of those claims (collusion), the president may have a harder time convincing people that he was unaware of Manafort’s shadowy ties to controversial Russian-linked figures when he joined the campaign. Trump and Manafort reportedly met in the 1980s, and have run in some of the same circles since. They even once lived in the same building."
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/paul-manafort-trump-timeline_us_59f76ca0e4b0aec14679be8a
You can try other sources if this one offends you. The story is always the same, you were sold a bill of good re draining the swamp. Stone, Manafort, Trump, all running around touching each other starting in the 80's. Stone and Manafort being about as swampy as any K-streeter in the DC swamp; these are the guys who helped win your vote: swamp kings.
So this is the first trial, a warm-up for Mueller, the beginning of the end for Manafort. It's the next trial that gets more interesting and will basically give Manafort life in prison. Then we'll see what Trump does.
So basically Mueller is wasting tax payer money to prosecute people for things that have nothing to do with Russian meddling but then people like you will complain if Trump goes to play golf. It’s just a ruse to create perception that stuff happened so that some dimwits will go vote for Democrats in the Fall. They don’t have anything on Trump. It’s a joke… He just associated with some shady people as have past presidents. Oh and he may have slept with some playboy bunnies and porn stars… The latter is a shocker, it’s not like we haven’t known for decades that the guy slept around… But hey you keep wearing that tin foil hat SD. You have a better chance of being abducted by aliens than Trump being impeached.
Sounds a lot like a conclusion waiting for facts.
Kinda backwards, and I’ve always thought most would agree. Although in today’s narrative-controlled-through-media world I suppose waiting for facts before drawing conclusions is simply passé...
"Kinda backwards, and I’ve always thought most would agree. Although in today’s narrative-controlled-through-media world I suppose waiting for facts before drawing conclusions is simply passé..."
When, exactly, was the world any different? The Stone Age? Earlier?
Sorry to bust your Bubble SD Maria Butina met with Obama officials in 2015
"Butina and Alexander Torshin, the former Russian Central Bank deputy governor, met with Stanley Fischer, then-vice chair of the Fed, and Nathan Sheets, then-Treasury undersecretary for international affairs, in separate meetings in 2015."
"The purpose of the meetings was to discuss U.S. economic sanctions placed on Russia during the Obama administration. The U.S. placed sanctions on Russia multiple times during the Obama years over Russia's involvement in Ukraine, its annexation of Crimea, and the Russian government's interference in the 2016 presidential election."
per the article the meetings "reveal a wider circle of high-powered connections that Butina sought to cultivate with American political leaders and special interest groups."
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-usa-russia-butina-exclusive/exclusive-accused-russian-agent-butina-met-with-u-s-treasury-fed-officials-idUKKBN1KC0DE
John Solomon told Lou Dobbs that at that time, in 2015, he alerted the FBI to her.
"I'll tell you a little story I've never told before. In March of 2015 I observed her at several events and really cozying up to conservatives and making what I thought was a weak-handed case that she was this courageous gun rights activist going up against Putin and there would one day be a Second Amendment in Russia. There's never going to be a Second Amendment in Russia. I became very perplexed by her behavior and her efforts of going up to presidential candidates and congressional candidates. So I started to do some reporting and I called FBI and US intelligence sources and very quickly I learned, "Yeah, we know that she's somebody here as an agent of influence. She's connected to this guy Tortian (sp?) and we know what she's trying to do." And I thought, that's really interesting. Are they going to tell the people she's meeting with and it doesn't appear they ever did. I thought the role of FBI counter-intelligence was to prevent contacts from occurring that are not in the interest of the United States. It sounds like they sat around and watched this for three or four years until it was convenient to create a headline."
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2018/07/a-set-up-russian-spy-butina-was-meeting-with-obama-treasury-while-spying-on-nra-conservatives/
Who was in charge of counter-terrorism at the FBI then - Peter Strzok,
Anyone remember Anna Chapman? She did the same thing in 2011 - did it have an impact on Obama in the 2012 election? nope.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/03/anna-chapman-obama_n_1398430.html
added bonus..
NY Dem Rep Greg Meeks went to Russia with Butina Aug 4-6, 2015. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/russia-nra-spy-charges-touch-reps-rohrabacher-meeks/ar-AAAdv8W
I'm sorry, is someone really saying the Manafort trial is a conclusion in search of the facts? And who has the true narrative: MSM or Trump's mouthpiece Ghoulliani? You actually trust Trump over the MSM? Still? Most lies of any President. Still? More retractions than any other President? Still?
Claims to be most popular Republican ever? Oh Ron no. Still?
"So basically Mueller is wasting tax payer money to prosecute people for things that have nothing to do with Russian meddling" Yes, it's a waste to convict for a known crime not in your scope. Or differ to another group to waste the same tax dollars?
Read the mandate.
"but then people like you will complain if Trump goes to play golf." Well, I do complain about NJ golf since NIMBY baby, NIMBY, but generally I just complain that the taxpayer is on the hook to harden how many golf courses? how many towers? mara loser, PLUS the inordinate vacation time: more vacation time and more money spent than any other President.
So help me understand you Mets: vacation expense - good? prosecuting crime expense - bad?
"They don’t have anything on Trump. It’s a joke…" Two sex pay-offs (so far), 32 indictments (so far), 3 companies indicted, 5 guilty pleas, 4 turning state-evidence, Cohen, Daniels, Russian Spy having sex with NRA, with Russian NRA donations and $30M to Trump, to have sex with Republicans for access and favors. It's a nothing burger all righty then. I'm the sheeple......
"He just associated with some shady people as have past presidents. Oh and he may have slept with some playboy bunnies and porn stars… The latter is a shocker, it’s not like we haven’t known for decades that the guy slept around…" And he's a liar, but you knew that when you believed him. Associated? His empire is built on rubles, but you knew that. He gave the Russians classified info from the oval office, but you knew that. His administration is full of Russian sympathizers, at minimum, but you knew that. His campaign is dirty; why oh why so many meeting with Russians? Why so many attempts creating backchannels? Why did Trump ask for the second email hack publicly and the next day it happened.....Why did Trump say handing over Americans to Putin was an "incredible offer?" Why were the only punishment for Russian hack was to be Trump's forced signature on Obama sanctions? Where's the law n order beef?
I would say if you didn't know that, what else don't you know?
"You have a better chance of being abducted by aliens than Trump being impeached." Probably true. I don't think Mueller wants Trump impeached, I don't either. I would just like gone so we can begin to repair the Office of the President, take down the freakin Dark Kingdom gold curtains, chairs and crap, and reconstitute our world alliances, trade agreements, and environmental agreements. You know, all that stuff you shun in favor of Trumpian rhetoric.
Skippy: read post above. Not sure how you can equate Butina, etc. forays with Democrats with the NRA/Republican/Sex/favors/influence. In one case you have meetings and one guy's trip. In the other you have meetings, sex, Moscow conventions, sex, Russian donations, shell llcs, NRA donations, sex, Russian gun rights (oxymoron eh) Or in one case you have a sniff, in the other you get into bed with..... yeah, that's the same. As I said before, good luck on this one. Might be better to support holding immigrant kids hostage...….
SD For the Past Year, the left has Told Us That Paul Manafort Was Going to "FLIP" on President Trump... yesterday it was announced he is Taking a Jury Trial and Is NOT Cooperating with Muellers Investigation.
whats that tell you logically -
1. Manafort gets to cross-examine any/all government witnesses. expect to hear about illegal/seditious lobbying practices that have been going on in Eastern Europe as well as the Ukraine Coup that our state department (HRC) was involved in.
2. If Manafort had info about "Russian collusion" he could have copped a plea before this even started. He never would have gone to jail pretrial or had any assets seized. "First in line, first to shine." If he is that 2nd , 3rd or 4th guy with incriminating info, the lesser the deal- if he even gets one. This tells me that sharing is caring and he has some stuff to talk about.
3. They are saying Manafort owes on ~$60 million unfiled taxes. - they are going to take half plus penalties and give him 10 years in club fed and he will either get pardoned or a downward departure. this is a check he can write.
4. Rosenstein exhonerated Manafort 8 years ago for the EXACT SAME CRIMES Mueller is charging him with. whoops! Guess who is going to be their their first witness.
"Mr Deputy Attorney General - please read this list of why you declined the prosecution of these charges against the defendant eight years ago for the jury"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaknV3FMGow&feature=youtu.be
Drumpf is totally finished now folks - wrap it up HRC can still win.
Keep the faith. It will serve you well.
I will wait for the verdict.
And this case is a ten year incarceration possibility, the next one is for over 250 years.
As to why he hasn't flipped, either he has nothing, Mueller wants nothing from him, he thinks he's G. Gordon Liddy, he's innocent (good luck) or...…..it's pardon me time and he knows it (which means he really has some good dirt).
I hope it's the last one to be honest; that would be a rare moment.
If Trump didn’t want to be criticized were playing golf constantly, he should not have opened that door by criticizing other presidents for golfing.
PublicExplosionBeef Hey how about that 4.1% growth in the economy... That's because of Obama right SD... LMAO...
iAnimal, yes my naïveté is showing.
Somewhere I had been taught that human beings were a superior species with the ability to discern fact from fiction. But the past couple years this whole “Trump collusion” narrative - stories based on huuuugggeee amounts of speculation, lots of inference, and minimal circumstantial “evidence” - still amounts to nothing but a conclusion desperately seeking facts.
The sad thing is (and I hope I’m wrong because all it would do is validate the insane behavior of these folks) that the story may actually be true. But reaching that conclusion with the supposed evidence presented so far is such a stretch that it’s almost incomprehensible to me.
I’ve asked before and I guess I’ll ask again: What is wrong with withholding judgement until the process is concluded?
Again, WHEN (not if) you see any fictions in the facts I present; feel free to call them out versus a generic umbrella of righteousness. That's called discussion; what you are doing is called preaching. Not that it's a bad thing, just a different thing. Of course there's every reason to withhold judgement; I am glad you, like me, are. The investigation is not completed and will not report out until then, probably.
But the facts are that the man is a known liar, cheat, and fraud so I think "innocent until proven guilty" is a bit of a stretch; this man has been anything but innocent in life or in the Office of the President. That's a fact, jack, that you can't take back with your "withholding judgement" attract---ion.
Greatest Presidential Liar in History --- that's a fact.
Multiple Frauds --- that's a fact
Multiple Cheatings on Multiple Wives --- that's a fact
Now when it comes to Russian collusion, "reaching that conclusion with the supposed evidence presented so far is such a stretch that it’s almost incomprehensible to me." Incomprehensible? Really? I mean you're gonna be shocked if a conspiracy is discovered?
I mean we have a crime by the Russians; were there any Americans involved, that is the question. Do you expect them to jump up and say "I did it?"
We have a Trump campaign and Trump administration filled with Russian sympathizers. That's a fact.
We have lots of indictments, guilty pleas, a few in jail, and lots of plea bargains; so it's not like we're not finding crime.
We have a multitude of Russian reach-outs, shout-outs, meetings, attempts to get stolen information from a foreign source, an adversary no less. That's a fact.
We have many Trump Campaign and Administration actions benefiting Russia. Some of these are utterly incomprehensible as to a cogent rationale for action beyond favoring a foreign adversary. That's a fact.
We have a number of people facing Russian conspiracy charges pleading out to turn state's evidence ---- why, if innocent of collusion? That's a fact.
We have Cohen, Trump's lawyer, with multiple money-for-access attempts with US and Russians. That's a fact.
So sure, no smoking gun, no rush to judgement, not guilty until proven, I have said that since the beginning. But incomprehensible? To quote the prophet :>) "yes my naïveté is showing." Good luck, it ain't gonna be pretty, that's for sure.
Lol. Being a jerk isn’t a crime, for if it were this forum would be a very quiet place.
Most of your issues have nothing to do with the impression being peddled that there’s a huge Trump/Russia connection. There isn’t. None. Nada. There’s only tangentially related issues that are being used to support the irrational narrative.
The majority of the Trump Collusion narrative is a lot like being a racist. One needs to have a certain thought process to draw the conclusion that all of a certain race are XYZ (good/bad/ugly/smart/dumb etc) because some of that race are XYZ. Racists don’t care that it’s easy to dispute their conclusions, they only care that since they believe they’re right then they must be right. Same case here. Trump is a jerk but is he a criminal in cahoots with Russia? A lot of folks want that to be true because it’ll make them feel better, but want doesn’t = truth.
"There’s only tangentially related issues that are being used to support the irrational narrative.
The majority of the Trump Collusion narrative is a lot like being a racist. "
ding, ding, ding, and we have a winner!, agreed, totally nailed it! a big +1, +2, and +3
"I will wait for the verdict."
LOL, hahahaha. Funniest line in the whole thread!!! No you aren't waiting. You haven't waited and the fact that you (and so many others) believe this says more about the unhinged irrational left than it does about your President. "Your 'theories' are the worst kind of popular tripe, your methods are sloppy and you conclusions are highly questionable. You are a poor scientist" ( quote, Dean Yeager)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTwo8MWA8tg
WOW! The level of cognitive dissonance is off the charts.
Wow, you got agitated first thing this morning. And the r-word to boot; nice touch. I think you are talking past me, I will take one more shot, but need to move on in that this is not a discussion, just preaching.
And you have no words for Donald J Trump's pre-judging the investigation claiming the investigation proves no collusion, and requesting publicly that Sessions stop an ongoing investigation of the US DOJ, as ordained by Congress. Is that rush to judgement OK with you? Is that not worthy of your sermon?
"Being a jerk isn’t a crime" Actually lying is a crime in the right circumstances, but you are right --- lying in public is not a crime. If you call Presidential lying being a jerk, OK, that's your right. I believe it's a failure to follow his oath of office. And yes, that's for all Presidents. Fraud is a crime, tyvm. And yes, cheating on the wife is OK. Funny, I don't remember you jumping in with this sermon on any lock-her-up or Bill's a cur threads...…
"Most of your issues have nothing to do with the impression being peddled that there’s a huge Trump/Russia connection. There isn’t. None. Nada" is your apparent response to " So sure, no smoking gun, no rush to judgement, not guilty until proven, I have said that since the beginning." I call that talking past me.
And now you said it: there is no connection. Wow ---- that's a huge leap from collusion. There is a HUGE connection, lots of connections, and they start in 1984 when the first Russian criminal began to rent in the Tower. I have listed those facts previously, you have never disputed any of them. But you said it, you believe there is no connection between Donald J Trump and the Russians. And you think I'm the zealot.
"There’s only tangentially related issues that are being used to support the irrational narrative." Hmmm.... Connections with a US adversary are just tangentially related to potential collusion. Interesting. Tell that to Sessions. As he recused himself, just the optics alone are bad. But in Trump's case, it is a fact that he is financially wed to Russians and a Russian-money-laundering bank --- if you think investigating because of that alone is a tangent, God bless your kindness.
Then there's the fact that the Russians meddled to tip the scale to Don; that's a fact that seems a bit more interesting than a "tangentially related issue" which again you think investigating because of that, combined with the money trial, is a tangent.
I do believe innocent until proven guilty, I will never feel better to prove Trump is in cahoots with the Russians; I would have vetted him in another direction to begin with, if it were up to me. But others went another direction in their zeal to beat Hillary; they closed their eyes and said --- no crimes proven, let's skip the financial vetting and accept that Don said: "I'm good to go."
Note that most of the pre-campaign and election evidence I have presented has been around for years. It is not new, it is not disputed. The difference now is that many people, not you, are putting all the individual actions together into a tapestry of actions with Donald J. Trump financially in bed with Russian rubles; he met them in the 80's and he prospered with them starting in 2000. There's a new documentary coming out putting together these 30 years with pictures --- it will be a killer. I mean you really can't make this stuff up; you yourself are showing how no one wants to believe it. But it's still not conspiracy, nor even criminal --- yet.
So continue preaching, it's all good. Drop the r-word, that's just a stretch for effect. And let's move apart rather that talk past each other. C ya.
Facts:
Seems the judge in the Manafort trial isn't going to play Mueller's little game...
Mueller prosecutors rebuked repeatedly by trial judge with a history of colorful rulings
http://www.foxnews.com/…/mueller-prosecutors-rebuked-repeat…
SD you just don't like the guy. That's what the problem is. All these indictments have nothing to do with Russian collusion and are just separate issues that Mueller's team are digging up. It's a witch hunt and a waste of taxpayer money in an attempt to sway votes.
GrekHawk - your link was broken when you pasted it.
Here's the fix:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/08/01/mueller-prosecutors-rebuked-repeatedly-by-trial-judge-with-history-colorful-rulings.html
So their evidence against Manafort is that he likes to buy high end suits? LMAO... Is SD the prosecutor in this case?
Thank you very much Mark Mc., so my links are broken? Hmmm, that's what the girl at the picnic told me, my links are broken . . .
Yes, Mets I just don't like the guy, I believe for due cause. You just like that guy, can't imagine the cause of that which would let you overlook some of the stuff he does. I call that sad.
Most of these indictments have a lot to do with Russians, lots are on Russians having to do with a crime by a foreign adversary - Russia. A few are on Russian companies participating in said crime. Other's are due to Americans having interactions with Russians. Congress has passed sanctions, Obama's, based on those Russian foreign adversary crimes.
You just believe looking for further collusion is unnecessary basically because the investigation has not completed. Since it is not completed, you have no smoking gun and all of the indictments, convictions, jail time are just separate issues that Mueller's team are digging up. It's therefore a witch hunt and a waste of taxpayer money in an attempt to sway votes because you don't have insight into the final report.
It's neither a witch hunt nor a smoking gun until the investigation is over: period.
Like Trump, you seem to require a preview to continue, a conclusion before it concludes. We all know that's not how a criminal investigation is supposed to work. It's reality, not a reality show.
I just can't understand why any good American, based on the evidence provided thus far in the public arena, would call this an unnecessary witch hunt wasting taxpayer money given the production thus far? Why wouldn't you continue the investigation and see it through to it's logical conclusion?
Greyhawk: That's a good one and yes, I have been watching this judge send the defense to the woodshed for weeks; colorful is the word. How do you think Manafort gave up his clothes for a jumpsuit, gave up a private cozy cell with internet in Club Fed, and moved to a real Federal prison? Can't believe his name is TS Ellis..... It's just keeps getting better. I think this judge is very good, and that's good for all. The fact that he admonishes both sides for over-the-top litigating is just great.
First Manafort's lawyers asked for a delay because his Club Fed was a couple hours away and that takes time....
Judge said, not a problem, come to Alexandria.
Manafort's lawyers looked at Club Fed, looked at Alexandria, and said: kidding.
Judge said, no you're not --- move it. And thus the jumpsuits.
The transcript behind these decisions will have you rolling over. Over the denial to the defense for change of venue. Another colorful transcript for sure.
Yeah, I love this guy ---- keep it coming.
It must be really great to just be able to refute any fact by saying "Fake news! Liberal Media Bias! CNN! I only watch Fox!" because at that point, you literally can never be wrong. It's the greatest catch all of all time and Trump was able to convince his fan base that anything negative about him is fake.
What happened to all the preaching about "law and order" and "we're a nation of laws" and now you're actually supporting Manafort? So to summarize, rich political figure not paying taxes on millions of dollars is fine. People in need, living in poverty, who use government assistance is an absolute travesty? Got it.
SD because the evidence doesn't lead anywhere. These jokers have had 2 years (the investigation preceded Mueller), and what do they have on Trump himself? Nothing... Nada... Sleeping with hot models is not evidence of anything. And I never said I like Trump the person. I'm worried about what he's going to do to better my families lives. He's got the economy going better than Obama did. He's trying to fix the immigration mess which the Democrats of course don't want to. Now they're letting illegals vote in San Francisco. He made it so countries who can't vet their citizens properly aren't allowed to let them into the US. Call it a muslim ban all you want it isn't. If that were the case many other countries like Indonesia would be on the list which they aren't. He's brokering new trade deals so that we're not paying out ridiculous sums of money and getting cheated. He's already done far more than Obama has in just 18 months. People like you let personal feelings get in the way of business. A president is basically a CEO of a country. So far Trump is doing a pretty good job.
Reasonable, CNN did a good enough job on their own the last several years to make people think they don't report the truth. I never watched a second of Fox until after the election. Ever since the Trayvon Martin coverage by CNN I kept losing faith in their ability to report 100% facts. The election coverage and Van Jones white washing monologue on election night sealed the deal for me. It was obvious they were biased and had the DNC in their pockets.
“What happened to all the preaching about "law and order" and "we're a nation of laws" and now you're actually supporting Manafort?“
Who is supporting Manafort? I think most here have been saying that whatever his misdeeds are the connection to Trump/Russian collusion is marginal at best. His misdeeds stand on their own; its the connection to our sitting president that has everyone up in arms, and that’s what people have been pointing out.
That’s why I’ve referred to all of this as akin to the Kevin Bacon game because everything including the kitchen sink has been thrown at trump trying to sink him. Stay on point and you’d find that more people would agree that trump is not suitable as president. Just stop making stuff up!
"SD because the evidence doesn't lead anywhere." Wow, you've seen it? Tell us more. Or is it just "These jokers have had 2 years (the investigation preceded Mueller), and what do they have on Trump himself? Nothing..." and even though that's half the time of most of these types of investigations; far less than anything Clinton, you say exonerate because we haven't finished and you decided, without any evidence at all, that we have had more than enough time. W will follow the evidence and report out when we're done. Just like you did for the Clintons. Just like we did for Nixon.
"Sleeping with hot models is not evidence of anything." Then why are we still talking about Bill's sperm? Just asking..... Hush payments to buy a story for publication and then bagging it --- just another scumbag move? Perhaps we need to determine who paid --- Cohen, Trump, campaign financing or something else. What....let that one go too?
'And I never said I like Trump the person. I'm worried about what he's going to do to better my families lives. He's got the economy going better than Obama did." Do you let your kids listen to this fool as a role model to better their lives? Depends how you measure. Let's see: Obama was handed the Great Recession. Trump was handed an economy in recovery. Equal start off the blocks? Guess you're a big believer in Tariffs too, taxations without representation. Tariffs, walls, what's next --- blockades?
"He's trying to fix the immigration mess which the Democrats of course don't want to." That's incorrect from start to finish. Another blind myth fostered by fake spews.
"He made it so countries who can't vet their citizens properly aren't allowed to let them into the US." No he didn't, he picked some Muslim nations he didn't like, lately tossed in NK and Catholic Venezuela for rounding. Like NKoreans can come here. But he let Iraq, Chad, and Sudan off the list: why? And why are Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Turkey and the United Arab Emirates not on the list. Why does Trump do business in Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Turkey and the United Arab Emirates.
"He's brokering new trade deals so that we're not paying out ridiculous sums of money and getting cheated." What payments, what cheating, but most important --- what trade deals?
"He's already done far more than Obama has in just 18 months." Need proof.
Did you just "People like you" me....
"In 1950 when I was born
Papa couldn't afford to buy us much
He said be proud of what you are
There's something special 'bout people like us" (talking heads)
"let personal feelings get in the way of business." Guess you missed how Trump and his silly moves have made me rich. I mean half-years salary like rich. Got another killing on the block, may ever bail today.....
^
|
Another load of irrational comments based purely on personal beliefs and feelings trying to be portrayed as "truth" ..... shovel it on thick my friend, and keep repeating yourself.....maybe with some more trigger words someone will actually believe you!
"Need proof" Just look at your 401k.....proof is in the pudding!
SD better yet how about they show us the evidence? Thier cards they’re showing are they hope they can get info out of Manafort. The stuff they’re getting from Cohen is laughable and will only lead to him getting disbarred. So obviously there’s no paper trail. What Hillary did should have landed her in jail considering a US Navy guy got jailed for taking a picture of his quarters or whatever on a submarine. The FBI also said what she did was extremely careless. Any one of us would have been put in prison for what she did. But I bet you voted for her right…
Bill planted his sperm on Monica’s dress while President and lied about it under oath. What Trump did as a private citizen with women has nothing to do with his presidency. The latest accusation on the Cohen tapes led to no payment being made. Even if they did who cares.
Why would you leave it up to elected officials to be role models for your kids? You should be your kids role model.
What have the democrats done about immigration except recently to make it legal for them to vote in San Francisco? Oh and Murphy wants to pay for their college now in NJ. Screw the taxpayers who get stuck paying for their own college… They want to dismantle ICE. Yea no one will die if that happens… Yea the Democrats are doing a great job…
The ban list originated from the Obama administration. Keep up SD.
The trade deals are in process with the EU. Again keep up with current events.
Like Darrin said look at your 401K. Your paycheck. Etc.
Ah, another insightful factual discussion on the merits. Impossible to refute a paucity of facts.
I told you: I laugh at your 401K. I got Trump bucks from capitalizing on fake spews financial media events like taxes n tariffs. I mean I made 3% on Tuesday's soybeans. And it's not on paper like your 401k --- mine's in my back pocket waiting for my next vacation, donating to the ACLU to help those kids, and party, party, party ----- and I will still beat your 401K with what's left. I got Ianimal raise money ------- 'm going Crème Brule, you can keep your pudding. More guns, more soybeans, real steel, less ObamaCare ---- Yippee-Ki-Yay Darrin.
I did pass on coal though. Bad ju ju there for sure.
So there you have it then SD....if your doing so great from America's booming economy then why are you asking us for proof? Just another one of your exercises in typing?
I didn’t say that it’s Trump’s economy, I said off Trmp’s fake spews like taxes and tariffs. What proof are you thinking of? I need a noun here please.
" Just another one of your exercises in typing?" - - -
+1, yep! it's the TDS, very bad case of it, one of the worst anywheres
When you ain’t got facts, name calling suffices. Keep believing The King of the Liars.
Why oh why aren't the HL Trumpetes not heading out to Wilkesbary for the rally? You know: the lock her up media is your enemy most favorite Republican ever tour?
And an OCD issue as well, combined with the TDS it has to make for a very unhappy lifestyle
SD, panties in a bunch about GreyHawk saying TDS? Do you even know what it is? Because if anyone fits the bill it's you! Judging by the narrative you spew on here over and over again, even repeating yourself over and over....you are not getting any nibbles....time to move to a different lake with your agenda!
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Trump%20Derangement%20Syndrome
And you still need proof? Even after you posted proof yourself? Just look at what you posted, you already have your proof, you admitted it yourself and then back peddled.....Noun? Hu? .......YAWN!!!!!
SD....complains about being called a name.....next line....calls everyone else a name.....bwahahahahahahahah!!!!
You can’t argue the facts so you continue to play the name game, Darrin even likes to throudh the r-word, but he can’t even back that up. Carry on gentlemen. Keep your faith with your King of the Lies.
Update;
There are still no nukes on the Pennisula. Don’t look at thosw new missles behind that curtain
There are still 700 kids locked up. Donate to the ACLU to help.
Trump still loves Russia. He had actual Russians in his campaign.
Manafort loves snakeskin. How fitting.
MAGA is Reagan’s tag line. Give him credit.
I actually agree with you, 4catmom.... but BOTH parties are guilty. Certainly the left is far more guilty of "owning" most of the press, for example. But yes.... the Patriot Act (Bush), Obama spying on Americans, control of the press (democrats), calling some of the press "fake" (Trump).... it all falls under the same umbrella. Bigger and more government control of the people, the only difference in the 2 parties is WHAT they choose to control.
The actual reality takes work to discover, through all the propaganda.
Unemployment down under Obama: "Lies! He's spinning the numbers!" says Fox.
Unemployment down under Trump: "Lies! He's spinning the numbers!" says CNN.
Sick & tired of the hypocrisy. Can't take it anymore. Nor can I take the willful naiveté of ALOT of people...
4cat - Of course you must be referring to how your savior Obama weaponized his administration to go after American citizens, correct? And you really believe that Loretta Lynch and Bill Clinton only talked about their grandchildren?
Holy Moly dear heart, I honestly wish you would wake up a little bit, I keep holding out hope for you, others up here not so much,
BTW - How you feeling about Murphy as your governor?
No reason for me to say anymore SD, your the one that made the comment and being you did not deny it, I will go with my statement was true.
Lies....from a president....NO WAY!!!! There is a new concept for liberals Hu?
Darrin - I see the OCD is getting worse. There is medication for that, wonder if it's being taken on schedule. The only medication for TDS is more wining, which is a tough pill to swallow but it works. ;)
Yeah sure Suze, whatever.....
Facts are not clear yet, but it appears we might have our first death in the Trump immigration child incarceration without reunification program. “Reports that a child died in ICE custody at Dilley are false,” the agency tweeted. That's right, the 3 year old allegedly suffered a respiratory illness while incarcerated and died shortly after leaving jail. Details sketchy, but family has lawyered up and off we go.....
It's a blessed miracle there aren't more.
Many of the kids returned "are just not the same" say a number of the parents.
This evil program will continue to bear evil results.
Now Trump wants to reduce our refugee quota by 90% from 50,000 to 5,000 per year. Can we just tear down that outdated statue in the harbor?
JIT: you will find links posted above. Lots of them.
Darrin: you still seem unable to produce any evidence beyond your name calling of why you believe that I am a racists. You are correct it was from another thread. Very good. Come on people, it's only 4:1 odds, you can do better than this. You just got to get your snarky on!
Remember, if it's Friday, it's Mueller time!
"Lies....from a president....NO WAY!!!! There is a new concept for liberals Hu?"
Not a new concept, but your man has exceeded all expectations. And the bar was low.
"President Trump has made 4,229 false or misleading claims in 558 days" He's up from 6.x lies a day to 7.6 lies a day. In his first 100 days, he was at 4.9 per day: I guess we call that his pivot to being Presidential. He's getting better, right Darrin?
" In his first year as president, Trump made 2,140 false or misleading claims. Now, just six months later, he has almost doubled that total." Here's the database: https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/trump-claims-database/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.76f006256fdb
We got exaggerations, fabrications, bold face, sins of omission, broken promises, deception, plagiarisms, and most important --- compulsive.
Yes, I know fake news on Trump's fake spews. Except we have the list....look above, it's databased.
Yes Darrin, all Presidents, all people, lie. But we have the list: Trump in his first 100 days outpaced Obama 6:1 and that's before Trump picked up the pace.
I just find it impossible to believe that anyone wouldn't notice how big a bald faced liar this man is. I just can't see how anyone would say --- ah, they all do it. How many and how big are the Mulligans you are giving this man? Or is it as long as your 401K is rising, screw the rest? I don't even waste my time anymore listening to his spews or the puke that comes from his lackeys mouths. I wait for the fact checkers to pick though the garbage before I tune in.
I will not become a Trump whisperer divining what I think he means rather than listening to what he says.
SD, Do you even read what you post? "Reports that a child died in ICE custody at Dilley are FALSE" ....um...false means it didn't happen.....you don't need me to post the definition of false do you?
Here is the latest arcticle on it.....
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/immigration/migrant-child-reportedly-dies-after-release-from-ice-family-detention-facility/2018/08/01/6a9515ea-95a8-11e8-a679-b09212fb69c2_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.f67dc02780fd
Headline "Migrant child died after release from detention, attorneys group alleges"
After RELEASE....you need a definition on that on that one too? A kid with a respiratory problem was probably better off in the air conditioned tent then the walk back home that his parents already put them through once.....but no...it's Trumps fault.....we should give free health care to everyone, including non-citizens....but my god Trump better not add a penny to the national debt doing it.....impossible......blame Trump!!! You are so silly!
Hey you asked for snarky...but all I see is fake news coming from you, trying to make it seem like the kid dies while being held for illegally crossing the boarder.
Hey SD....direct question to you......how many kids have died trying to MAKE IT to ICE custody? How many bodies are found each month? Do you have any idea the dangers the parents put their kids in just to GET to a air conditioned tent with food, water, tv, and video games?
And produce evidence? For what? I told you now three times, you already typed all your own evidence.....even with a answer you keep asking and asking and asking....get your head together man!
Name calling? Where? Prove I called you a "name" You keep saying that, but no "names" have been slung....unlike you
Confused much or just "Drunk" LOLOLOLOLOL
So these parents take their kids on what for some is over a 1,000 mile trek through dangerous heat and who knows what they're eating, but people cry over these kids getting 3 meals a day and AC. LOL... They show up with no documents and border agents are supposed to assume these kids are theirs?
Wow Mets, that's some level of American compassion as if you're in their boots, walking their paths, true empathy. It's the parents fault. Personal responsibility, right.
You just can't imagine being in a place so bad that you would make that journey? For those born into the pits of poverty, it's just not that far a reach. Or do you think being an undocumented migrant minimum wage American is the life o' Reilly? Afraid they are here to just steal your cheese? My God man, where is your heart. Have you not enough cheese that you might spare a little for a refugee?
"Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
MOTHER OF EXILES. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
It didn't matter whether they had documents or not: zero tolerance, remember?
Yes, I cry over mandatory family separation followed by incarceration without any hope of reunification for over 400 kids from this policy alone. I cry over the world's refugees and pray for there safety, safe journey, and safe arrival. "I lift my lamp beside the golden door."
It's over 100 in San Antonio today; let's put you in a tent in those temps with 12 other people and some AC blowing to see how long you last before respiratory illness sets in. An AC'd airstream, painted black, would be better. Don't worry, 14 hours later to see a heath professional (not a DR) and you'll get the usual cure: drink water. "No ice please."
Continue to support this evil; we will remember.
Support the ACLU, we will make them pay.
SD what are you kidding me... the kids have it better in those tents then back home with no AC in 100 degree weather and probably less than 3 meals a day...
Ms. 4cat: My credentials certainly are just as good as or better than yours are , you being a retired public elementary school teacher and all.
https://yarn.co/yarn-clip/4ea7cb1a-0cb9-4642-9e29-4f6158c5e46e
https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm
157,000 new jobs in July U6 is at 7.5% as well - that’s YUUUGE.
And... May figures were under reported
“The change in total nonfarm payroll employment for May was revised up from +244,000 to +268,000, and the change for June was revised up from +213,000 to +248,000. With these revisions, employment gains in May and June combined were 59,000 more than previously reported.”
People are getting jobs and Trump is doing exactly what his base elected him to do.
Improve the economy
Reduce unemployment
Border control
H1-B reform
https://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/08/03/trump-immigration-reforms-boost-college-grads/
Blue wave? Dubious
"Blue wave? Dubious" You're correct of course that a good economy getting better should mean Democrats don't stand a chance even though it's mid-terms. Of course, that means no way with Obama's economy in 2011 could he ever win the 2012 election.
As to the rest....oye. Interesting piece but has nothing to do with undocumented workers or border crossing. It is a red herring in that regard.
Further, your Breitbart story highlights facts, figures, and quotes from CIS. Need I say more: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/center-for-immigration-studies-cis/ That part is just biased trash.
Then it jumps to the WSJ, a bit biased but OK IMO, which basically tells us that Trump has slowed the ability for foreign Master-level graduated to get jobs in America even slowing the progress of Corporate Sponsorship Master's programs for foreigners. Accordingly, "Business groups oppose Trump’s reforms because the reduced inflow of foreign graduates forces them to pay higher salaries to American graduates" which, in turn, means higher prices for the consumer.
Now I don't know the answer to this one, but it points out that immigration is much more than "build a wall," and that these knee-jerk, haphazard inconsistent polices are like squeezing jello. We say we want merit-based immigration as we stop foreign grad students from getting jobs so, more Americans get jobs (remember, it's full employment) their salaries are higher than we used to pay,, prices go up, business profits suffer, consumers suffer. So I can't even tell you it's a good thing, it's a bad thing.
I mean the story even details 29 GOP-ers quietly going around Trump to bring more foreigners in at the same time Trump's little action is attacking the merit-based people he said he was going to attract. I am confused by your story's conclusions.
Immigration reform needs to be a comprehensive plan covering all forms of immigration, work and student visas, apparently refugees, and those who have been in America as useful citizens for some period of time.
Interesting piece.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/01/atlanta-fed-predicts-5percent-jump-in-economic-growth-for-third-quarter.html
ATL fed predicts 5 point jump in economic growth in Q3.
How’s that trial going?
https://lawandcrime.com/awkward/judge-ellis-loses-all-patience-with-prosecutors-and-ends-court-early-over-major-screw-up/
How about answering my questions as opposed to using key trigger words to fit your agenda....look at the big picture for once
you say 1 kid died...(FACT....after he was released) I say How many kids have died trying to get the tents? The same tents that you say are oh so horrible....with their free meals, tv, video games and air conditioning...um...yeah...so horrible.
Your riding the same narrative over and over, even though it has so many holes it's sinking quicker then a lead balloon....whatever CNN says, you're on board with....do your own research, and as I said....look at the big picture for once!
UPDATE:
There are still nukes in North Korea.
There are still 711 kids held separated from their parents: 400 of the kids have parents who have been deported and may never be reunited. It would be a weird twist of fate if this is what gets them American citizenship. "Mission accomplished"
Meanwhile, tens of millions of dollars donated by millions of patriotic Americans: https://www.voanews.com/a/americans-angry-at-border-policy-but-no-shift-in-immigration-stance/4512341.html
Sit ins and hunger strikes: https://www.voanews.com/a/detained-immigrants-in-texas-on-hunger-strike-rights-group-says/4511442.html
Trump's move to de-fund sanctuary cites fails: https://www.voanews.com/a/us-appeals-court-rules-trump-order-on-sanctuary-cities-illegal/4509641.html
Grandmothers converge on the border in protest: https://www.voanews.com/a/4508681.html
Man, I think Trump need to defund Voice of America. I mean Grandmothers are getting grumpy, Trumpy. Like I said, there is no good ending on this and supporters are just making it worse.
So you’ve officially abandoned the ridiculous Russian collusion and are now focusing on relevant topics? Great!
BWAHAHAHAHA...more narrative.....it’s obvious your not interested in fixing the issues but instead interested in just making more issues through the means of dramatic narrative.
Morning, glories. Officially JIT? "ridiculous Russian collusion?" Certainly you can't be picking sides there and now calling the investigation ridiculous? And not relevant? Must be bad editing, right?
But yes, I am done. My six-part, well wordy, treatise is above, a tragic play in three acts.
Act 1: The early years or better named, "The Omen"
Act 2: The campaign or more aptly named, "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas."
Act 3: The Presidency or well named, "The Boss Baby."
Basically, while some saying too much repetition, what has happened over time is not so much new information hitting the airwaves, but more of a knitting together a narrative based on series of calamities that are the Don's life.
For example, how Roger Stone is a Reagan era dirty trickster, that has bonded with Trump and Manafort beginning in the 1980's. That means the Don hired the swamp right from the beginning. Actually while Don is not of the swamp himself, the facts show he was familiar with these guys and what they do for decades.
And beyond new news and new events unfolding, I think that's what we will see going forward. For example, during his two trials, I think the life-time association between Manafort, Stone, and Trump will overshadow Trump's "I barely know the guy" fake spew narrative.
New movie coming out that puts much of this together too so we'll get pictures soon too!
Meanwhile, anyone know when VOA turned liberal? That just seems strange.
UPDATE:
DACA to be up and running again according to judge but holds until 8.23 for possible Trump appeal number 3...…
On Friday, Judge "Sabraw said it was it was “100 percent the responsibility of the administration” to reunite those families. Sabraw also noted that as few as 12 of the 500 parents in question have been located. “That is just unacceptable at this point,” he said. “The reality is that for every parent who is not located there will be a permanently orphaned child.”
The Trump government admitted it's impotence and incompetence in being able to undo their job: "Stewart said the government had proposed a plan with non-profit groups in a prominent role because it believed that was the quickest way to locate parents."
https://www.voanews.com/a/judge-calls-us-efforts-to-reunite-deported-parents-unacceptable/4513491.html
And there are still nukes in North Korea, more missiles on their way too.
The judge has no right to block Trump on DACA. DACA was an executive order by Obama. Trump is within his right to get rid of it. Yet another case of a judge legislating from the bench. These kinds of judges need to go….
No that is the parent's faults who decided to try to sneak in instead of going to a US consulate or embassy to apply for refugee status.
I agree JIT, but think we are at a point where we need to establish a comprehensive plan, including DACA, the wall, E-verify, whatever... I think we have seen the problems occurring when we attempt to plug one hole in the dam when there are multiple leaks. May not have to implement all, but I think we need the semblance of a plan versus catchy sound bites and poster bullets.
Mets: that's exactly what I said when the Muslim travel ban went into place or worse yet, when King Trump put the tariffs that equal taxation without representation which is even worse than legislating from the bench.
But in this case, we have two men, Sessions and Trump, who alone decided a zero tolerance mandatory family separation and incarceration program, that would rip children from parents independent of status. They claimed it was the law; they claimed it was holy law; they quoted from the Bible.
And then they said: kidding....never mind.....but they never said sorry.
Today, they can't fix what they wrought. Reap what you sow. There is nothing good coming from this and the longer they keep sitting on their hands, the worse it becomes.
Because they can't fix what they did, we could end up with 400-700 orphans on our shores; a good test for those right to lifers looking to adopt. It will be interesting to see how we handle citizenship for those we detained. Is this what Trump means by merit-based immigration? You get a merit if we kidnap you, incarcerate you, lose your parents, and then have some white folk in Idaho adopt you?
"We kidnap the tired, the hungry, the poor....."
But you are 100% convinced they all illegally crossed as you seem to publish? What percentage crossed illegally? You make it sound like a zero tolerance, zero sum game where everyone is illegal. Did we shun people away from legal refugee presentation for days, weeks, months, forcing them to either cross the river or return to some shuthole Mexican border town forcing them to wait for us to clear the bridge or some Mexican border criminal to kill them?
Even if they crossed the river, these are refugees that you seem to enjoy treating as robbers coming to rob you in your sleep. We should treat them as asylum seekers under due process. Seeking refuge is just that. We can do a quick scan, rapid deportation for those who fail, allow prospective asylum seekers to enter. Those with proper documentation we can provide court date, ankle bracelet and release. Those without proper papers are detained but can be released, upon security clearance, with appropriate bond, court date and ankle bracelet.
There is no law forcing mandatory incarceration until court appearance. Or to force family separation. That's a policy choice that Sessions, Trump, Mets and others enjoy.
Trump offered DACA in exchange for the wall and border security. Seemed like a fair deal to me. Chucky Cheese Schumer whined even after that. Existing people could stayed and we prevent the same scenario from happening again.
Can't locate the parents? Why aren't the parents coming forward to claim their children?
4cat, whats wrong with the picture is that parent's are putting their kids in that situation in the first place.
Secondly, if you were separated from your children or child for ILLEGAL actions, and then were released, wouldn't you make some sort of attempt to be re-united?
kb2755 good point! Perhaps these were just child traffickers and not parents! If you know your child was taken the government knows where children are sent. How hard would it be for the parents to tell authorities who their child is and then find them at whatever facility they are at? People are very gullible if they think all of these adults were the parents of these kids.
or, Darrin the parents were trying to remove their children and themselves from a deadly situation.
The compassion just keeps building... Answer me this: who do you call, what do you do, if in Central America, your kid is in some jail in US, or something? Maybe you can answer your own "why are the parents coming forward?"
So who do you call? What do you do? Where do you go?
"Can't locate the parents? Why aren't the parents coming forward to claim their children?"
1. maybe they are dead, busy being raped, still in transit, lost, in jail.....
2. perhaps they don't know how to dial: 1-800-wtf-rmykids?
3. maybe they think their kids are better of in an American jail waiting to become foster kids so they can be American citizens than to be forced to return to a, what did Don call these countries? Something about a hole?
"What's wrong with the picture is that parent's are putting their kids in that situation in the first place."
1. I know it's just impossible for you to imagine somewhere being that bad, isn't it. You probably think it's all about someone coming here to steal your cheese, take your lawn mowing, dishwashing, mickey d jobs. Tell you what, move to Camden, take the kids, and then tell us if you have a clue......
2. They are just dying to clean your toilets....
3. Maybe it's just that bad to begin with that they have to leave.
"Secondly, if you were separated from your children or child for ILLEGAL actions, and then were released, wouldn't you make some sort of attempt to be re-united?:"
1. What makes you think that they haven't?
2., Or is it just the fact they are not reunited prove there are no attempts?
"How hard would it be for the parents to tell authorities who their child is and then find them at whatever facility they are at?"
1. I don't know, how hard is it?
"People are very gullible if they think all of these adults were the parents of these kids."
1. Yet, there are those amongst us that feel we should still try to reunite the families that have been separated. Seems to be better for all than keeping these illegals in jail, then foster care, then adoption, then AMERICAN citizens! Yeah, you won!!! Way to keep to illegals out of the country!
How are you going to reunite kids with parents if the adults who brought them are traffickers? what do you think it doesn't happen? You just assume the adults being deported are these kids parents.
Meanwhile a Chinese Spy was Diane Feinstein's driver for 20 years. Interesting, the report says she forced him to retire. Why wasn't he arrested?
https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2018/08/01/details-chinese-spy-dianne-feinstein-san-francisco/
4cat "or, Darrin the parents were trying to remove their children and themselves from a deadly situation."
So....is't the complaint in the picture you posted the parent's plan then? Not seeing your argument here.
SD to answer all your questions at once, (Even though you blatantly ignored my ONE question multiple times) why don't you try to illegally cross the boarder into Mexico and write back to us and let us know how they handled the situation.
Here is an idea for you....don't send your kids to the boarder with someone you don't know...if you get locked up for illegal doings, your kids would be documented at the time you are taken in.
Then there is also always the option to become a legal citizen...but no, it's so easy to try to skip out on the law and roll the dice...chances are you end up in air conditioning with 3 free meals, or get across the boarder and get to reap the benefit of all the citizen's tax money....seems like a win win on the illegal crossing...but yeah, lets all complain about how horrible they are being treated.
Any of you in for donating some money to build a massive 5 start resort for the illegal boarder crosses to live in? Nah, you woulden't do that, you would rather everyone else pay millions for other's illegal doings.
BUILD THE WALL!
The article explains that.
Unlike Trump telling the Russians classified information, true story, the investigators concluded that Feinstein did not.
And we know wjy Don wasn’t arrested. And you probably tossed him the Mulligan too. Because he’s not Hillary!
Gates is on the stand. That’s good news for Trump supporters. Means the case is not a total slam dunk at this point. You can nail him on cross.
So many rats, so little time.
Unanswered open question is why Manafort, financially in trouble, deep in debt, can’t even pay for ObamaCare, to the job with Trump for zero pay? Wonder what he thought the pay day was...
Maybe Trump promised Manafort a cooshey big buck government job; yeah, that’s the ticket. How to get rich in government.
I must have missed the conviction of Trump for giving classified info to the Russians.
Man, I really wish when I was proven wrong I could just turn the blind eye, ignore and continue on with my agenda....the life of a liberal must be so easy!
SD...wanna talk about classified information? Smash any government property with a hammer lately? That would get ANYONE arrested...at the very least fined for destruction of government property....(ANYONE but Hiillbill)
LMFAO kb2755......there is A LOT of B.S. on this thread being talked about like it is fact that we apparently missed convictions for!
IF Trump ever gave a rats azz and read some of these posts, a certain someone would get slammed for slander....you can only portray B.S. as fact for so long before it catches up with you.....
That’s terrible. What slander?
You mean when Trump gave classified information to the Russians while in the oval office? You not only missed that but call me slanderous for saying it?
You also missed the rationale for why no arrest and conviction?
President’s automatically declassify any clasdified info, that’s why.
But he still did it. And no amount your rememberence of Hillary can change that
Or you labelling me with a bad, bad word.
When Obama went off mic with the Russian, you conservatives wemt total Ghouliani on him. No secrets told, but talking candidly drove you insane.
Only you can forgive, forget, oh who cares as long as you’re winning, right? Your 401 is good so you don’t care.
Now Trump throws DJr under the bus admitting the meeting WAS about getting stolen information on his opponet from a foreign adversary. That’s an indictable crime.
Its getting deeper.
"Now Trump throws DJr under the bus admitting the meeting WAS about getting stolen information on his opponet from a foreign adversary. That’s an indictable crime."
Stollen information, boy are you buying everything hook, line and sinker. Sort of like the DNC and Hillary relying on info provided by Christopher Steele for the dossier that was used to get the FISA Warrant.
I'm sorry KB, but the hacked emails would be considered stolen. But that's not even important or germane to the issue -- it's just frosting. Trump has to be totally twisting on this tweet. Got no coulda, shoulda, to hide behind this time.
What is germane is that Donald J Trump wrote that: "Fake News reporting, a complete fabrication, that I am concerned about the meeting my wonderful son, Donald, had in Trump Tower. This was a meeting to get information on an opponent, totally legal and done all the time in politics - and it went nowhere. I did not know about it!"
OK, let's take er apart. There was a meeting. Check. There wasn't there was, and now there is! It was, according to Trump, a nothing meeting, no it was Russian adoptions, no --- now it's to get info on an opponent which is totally legal and done all the time. Check, but oops, nope Don, it's totally illegal to get information on an opponent from a FOREIGN SOURCE much less an ADVERSARY. And "I didn't know about it." That's called throwing Don Jr. under the bus. Idiot.
Of course, ignorance of the law is no excuse, but wait, there's more... Who was at the meeting: Donald Trump Jr., Jared Kushner, and Paul Manafort. OK, Jared and Don Jr. can plead ignorance of the law, but Paul Manafort has been doing this since the 1980's: there is NO DOUBT that he knew the law. And there is no doubt that all of them tried to lie-it-away and hide that they were there to get information from a foreign source --- that's telling when you go out of your way to hide the crime.
We don't even need the info, the very fact that these men met with the Russians with the expressed purpose of COLUDING to conspire to get information on an opponent is in itself in violation of campaign finance laws.
Now we step into "what did Don know" and that's where Cohen and company will come in.
Meanwhile, why hasn't Manafort caved and why did a man in total financial catastrophe take a job for zero pay? Whatever could that reason be is the $10K question of the day.
Gates probably to go on cross today; good fireworks expected. Always fun to see a defense team try to make a crook look crook-ier.
UPDATE: there are still nukes in North Korea, more missiles coming any day. Is this mission accomplished?
there is no Iran nuke agreement; we tore it up. Feel better now?
On to Ohio, here we go....
SD you are brainwashed by fake news... Trump said the same thing about the meeting a year ago. There's video of it. No one cared then.
And 4cat... that thing you posted made me laugh... Anyone with half a brain can watch CNN and realize they report nonsense...
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/ex-republican-operative-steve-schmidt-the-party-of-trump-must-be-obliterated-annihilated-destroyed-667008/
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/08/01/schmidts-break-from-the-gop-the-talk-of-dc-753107
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2018/07/31/steve_schmidt_trump_is_an_agent_de_facto_of_russia_democrats_will_take_majority_in_house.html
Want more sources?
The guy is a hack, the news is fake, the public hates Don Let’s believe in Don because he is the truth, the light and the way. According to us in an ever getting smaller crowd every day.
CNN has a much better record than Don when it comes to fakes news versus fake spews.
Don is the greatest liar of any President to date. Nixon says thank you Don. .
Schmidt is just another Republican taking a Republican stand to not stand for Trump. More every day.
Ohio will be the next test and Trump has already lost.
Oh, Steve Schmidt is affiliated with establishment Republicans? And his view is surprising how? Being aligned with “War War War” McCain should be telling enough that this guy would be anti-Trump.
What was the point of those links, exactly?
Metsman, I’m still trying to rectify his use of the term “objective truth” within his other prose that is obviously anything but objective! Opinionated, sure, but objective? Gawd that’s funny!
The guy is basically calling Trump a dictator which I find humorous. Dictators take away your guns, your rights, and your money. If anyone truly believes that is Trump’s endgame, then they are mentally ill… Oh wait… The left wants to take away your guns, your rights, and your money… hmmm….
Rectify this: the first sentence: "We're seeing someone go to mass rallies, constantly lie, to incite fervor in a "cult of personality" base.
mass rallies -- check
constantly lie --- double check with a bullet
incite fervor -- check
"cult of personality" base. -- hmmm, could be an opine, maybe yes, maybe no.
Second sentence: "we see him making victimization honorable." how many times have I asked here, "don't you remember that you won? You have the Presidency, the House, the Senate, most of the states ----- why are you still acting like losers....So, opinion perhaps but seemingly obvious to many an observer on that one.
Third, abridged: "we're seeing (lots of things) that only the leader can see" double check again with a bullet.
Honestly I think it's how you view the lies. Some of us see lies. Others see truths inside the lies. There just jokes, misstatements, hyperbole, or the latest --- it's an opinion, not an order or even request..... When you look at these lies and conclude there's a truth in there for you------ yeah, Schmidt is 100% opinion then. Even to JIT.
“Dictators take away your guns, your rights, and your money. If anyone truly believes that is Trump’s endgame, then they are mentally ill… Oh wait… The left wants to take away your guns, your rights, and your money… hmmm….”
Now *that* is objective truth! ;-)
Drain the swamp.
Don Jr - meets with Russians for colusion
Paul Manafort - savior of dictators and murderers all, in jail, going for more
Rick Gates - guilty, thinks Manafort a genius
Mike Flynn - Russian security risk
Kushner - missing in swamp
Jeff Sessions - swamp thing
Scaramangler - swamp mouth
Michael Cohen - swamp personal lawyer
Spicer - swamp whisperer
All the President’s men, bery swampy.
Wow, you have some serious issues. When I head to sleep in a few hours dreaming about Marsha, Marsha, Marsha, you'll be having nightmares about about Russia, Russia, Russia.
Now some would say I have some serious issues dreaming about Marsha but it sure as hell beats dreaming about Russia.
Thank you, Darrin and KB, for your kind thoughts on my mental health. So nice that Darrin gets up so early with StrangerDanger on his mind :>) Stuff that dreams are made of, right KB?
But you voted for this orange-haired liar in chief, Russian sympathizer, cheat, and fraud that he has been proven to be apparently because he is not Hillary. And with Hillary out of the picture, but still forever in your dreams, you still love Trump for some strange reason as he:
- Achieves winning status as Greatest Liar President in US History
- Passes tax bill allowing Darrin to drink beer, watch his meager 401K grow, while Trump nets $3B in inheritance tax repeal. You give good return on his campaign donations.
- Passes tariffs killing our Soybean market, then offers our taxes to farmers to cover his tariff debacle while trade deficits soar 7% in June with deficits rising $3B, the yugest jump since late 2016
- New steel plants and booming steel profits thanks to Trump tariffs. Unfortunately the company claiming success because the tariffs allow it to charge more and not fear the Chinese is from the EU….
- Great economy is deficit fueled outpacing 2017 by 10%, on track to be yugest deficit since 2008
- Mexico will not pay for the wall which the GAO says will overrun Trump's budget, take longer and be less useful than Trump's "Mexico will pay our underbudget and ahead of schedule" plan. Incompetence is the GAO rationale. Hey, didn't they used to work for Trump..... New report will be better :>)
Sweet dreams, LMAGA (as Ron Reagan, not Trump coined it), click your heels three times and say “there’s no place like home, there’s no God like Don”
There are still nukes in North Korea and we can’t reunite the children we separated from their parents. Iran in planning new uranium enrichment program since NPT is dead to the US. Putin is still respected by the US Administration.
And somehow missing from your list are people who have taken money from the Russians…. Bill Clinton receives half a million dollars to give a speech in Russia…. Hillary Clinton involved in the Uranium One scandal that gave Russia our Uranium and profited her…. Obama caught on camera offering to help a Russian diplomat once he’s re-elected… But that’s ok because they are Democrats…. Trump Jr sits down briefly with a Russian lawyer to hear her out and nothing becomes of it and you’re crying to the hills to impeach Trump Sr. Kushner has not been talked about having done anything, your side just throws him in the loop anyway. Manafort was indicted on charges for things that happened well before the campaign and you try to link it to the campaign. Cohen turned out to be an unethical turd taping his client, yet nothing of substance came from that that would link Trump to working with the Russians. It was just possible hook ups with models when he was a private citizen. Sessions recused himself to allow Mueller and company to do their investigation. What exactly did he do? You keep stretching for a truth that doesn’t exist SD.
I didn't vote for Trump as I have stated multiple times. My issue with you is that you slip in in false statements as facts in your diatribes and try and call you out on them.
Actually SD....since you attempted to come to your own conclusions as to what my morning concerns are....to be honest...replying to your tirade of embarrassing posts was on my mind while I was taking my morning dump.....need something to kill time while on the toilet......
+100 kb!
SD, Your side is just out of control, bitch and moan, over and over, all day long....repeat yourself every day like it is new news you just were surprised by....you show so much concern about what Trump is doing and accomplishing, but then create so many speed bumps, hurdles, and quite frankly fabricated lies that would cause even a Genie with magical powers to not be able to get their job done....but in the end, after you are done distracting, slandering, and slowing down, blame him for not getting anything done.....really!?!?!?!
Now, I understand you personally have no affect on our president and for the most part your posts are falling on plugged ears, heck some people have openly stated they skip right over your posts dude to your repetition and scandalist ways of posting...but even then you proceed with your agenda march so much so that this thread has not even made a move forward in over a week....we are STILL talking about the same thing....(liberals embarrassing themselves)
^^^ That's effectively what the asbestos company did. Trump had nothing to do with it.
The tweet, saying he "lended" his face to the product falls into the "fake news" category. Using someone's picture without their permission isn't lending anything.
You are correct, Trump is not getting paid for use of his image. However, he is allowing new uses for asbestos in America.
According to Snopes, and others Trump in "The Art of the Comeback," said that asbestos was 100% safe once applied in building construction and that regulation was a mob-based conspiracy. Yeah, that's the truth.
EPA ex-head Pruitt gave the EPA new interpretations for Toxic Substances Control Act allows “new uses” approval. You know it's a deep dive into making the environment better, safer, when your courting the asbestos manufacturing market to come up with new ideas. Maybe we'll get immigrant kids to test.....
So I guess Trump's face will shortly be on asbestos here too :>)
Breathe deep, sweet.
And Trumps “support” for asbestos comes from a his 1997 book, “The Art of the Comeback,” he wrote that he believed that anti-asbestos efforts were “led by the mob” because they owned the abatement companies
Ah, deep state blues even in 1997. Conspiracies abound. Don knows mob so just have to believe that whopper.
KB, I am sorry; I didn't see you discussing any false statements in your last post. I would be glad to discuss those once you move beyond the personal discussion of my mental health. Meanwhile, keep that day job....:>)
Mets: Assume is probably the word for what you are doing.
Bill Clinton is not President anymore. Hillary never was. But, as I have said, investigate again, and again, and feel free to indict. And yes, Bill and Hillary are not in my list of Trump Russian Sympathizer's or Trump's Russian Money Trail. Very good observation, but silly.
You are wrong. I noted Obama's off-mic statement, alluding to conservatives angst over the topic and noting he didn't disclose any classified information as Trump did. As I noted previously, you're still knicker-knotted over a nothing burger Obama innocuous statement as defense now for Trump declassifying classified information because one is just a stupid man. Lord knows what he fessed up to Putin in private.
Moving targets: you gotta keep up with Trump's lies. Ttwo meetings buddy, not one. The first one was such a nothing burger that we needed a second one to confirm the nothing-ness of the first one. You haven't a clue whether they got the info unless you believe a Trump.
Do you believe Trump on this? Which story? Which Trump?
Cohen allegedly says he can tie Trump to knowing about the meetings with others present. Time will tell.
You are wrong. I have never have been "crying to the hills to impeach Trump," quite the opposite, I have said it probably won't happen even if they tie Trump to the meetings, and the meetings to conspiracy, and the conspiracy was to obtain information from a foreign adversary.
You are right about Manafort charges, of course that's what I said. Although you will find Trump linked and the linkage closed down, correctly, by the judge. Unless you find Manafort getting a $16M loan to make some idiot secretary of the Army not a quid pro quo. And then there's the Gates' testimony about Manafort pressuring Gates for access and favors from the Trump administration. Again, and rightfully so, the judge pushed this off.
But I just don't see how you can brush off a guy who hires a guy who is in this much money trouble, a guy who is a thief and a criminal, a guy that works for dictators, murderers, and thugs, as being previously tainted but now is just Trump's guy. Why do you blithely overlook how rotten and how Russian the Trump campaign was and how many Russian sympathizers are in the administration today in your zealous defense of the greatest liar President of all time. The biggest Met's overlook is why oh why did broke Manafort take the Campaign Manager's job for zero pay?
You're right again when you Trump hired "an unethical turd taping his client," a hiring skill he tends to repeat a lot. And that's the point I am making: there's a lot of trouble in Trump's swamp. Russians, crooks, and idiots --- lots of them. Too many of them.
Very good Mets. And yes, people are allowed to grow. However, it appears that Trump lies exactly the same today as he did 21 years ago.
So that statement is as true today as it was 21 years ago.
Wait, weren't you just kvetching over Bill Clinton --- like going back to his 2001 speeches, and out to a decade after his Presidency?
Sorry, it appeared that time did not matter to you...….at least when the Democrats did it.
To be completely factual, asbestos is only hazardous when inhaled (ie when airborne), so existing installations *are* safe unless/until that asbestos is disturbed in some way...
Newsflash - Hazardous materials are sometimes used in industrial applications!
Hydrazine (for example) is super nasty stuff, but it was critical for use on the space shuttle and still IS critical on the F-16's that protect the skies.
It would be dumb to ban asbestos outright from ALL new uses. These changes just give the EPA the authority to review/approve them. Nothing is blanket approved, nothing is blanket denied. They will be reviewed case by case.
Unfortunately it's a tad more complex, simple and, risky than that, Mark. The new asbestos policy allows the EPA to review all new uses for asbestos upon notification. That review is a 90-day EPA evaluation of the intended new use.
The government can't even find 700 parents of stranded kids in 90 days; but they presume to guarantee our safety from a new use for asbestos in that time. Where do you think the data will come from in that 90-days?
Doesn't that sound like: come up with an idea, do your own studies, get a dog n pony show ready for the EPA. What can the EPA do in 90-days to either accept or refute that? You thought it was easy to get Quick Chek in our Historic District....
Remember, this is the same government that that concludes we pass on higher mileage for new cars because lower mileage, dirtier air, saves lives. That's because more people will buy newer, safer, cheaper lower mileage cars than they would higher mileage cars. I mean when was the last time you saw a Prius. One of the other brilliant assumption in this study is that more efficient car owners drive more and therefore die more often that lower mileage users who can't afford to drive. They just winked and doubled the previous assumption of driving expectations, it's magic.
How many HL hybrid owners out there have doubled what they drove pre-Prius?
Imagine what these rocket scientists would come up with if they only had 90-days to review? I am not sure I would trust these guys to review anything asbestos, much less in 90-days.
Haha… you’re going to believe a Russian company? You go from being outraged about Russian meddling to now we can trust what they say?
4CAT - Where does it state anywhere in that article that Trump has anything to do with the company using his image?
You do realize the "Approved by Donald Trump" is a quote from the logo, not the actual fact, right? (He approves that company as much as he truly approved my comment above...)
"What can the EPA do in 90-days to either accept or refute that?"
My company makes medical devices and the FDA generally only requires either 30 or 90-days to approve/deny our proposed changes. Pacemakers are still safe, right? That doesn't mean they still can't monitor, audit, or pull certification at any point in the future based on further research, evidence, or complaints.
Now, it could take months or years to perform the testing that would meet the FDA's (or EPA's) standards for acceptance prior to even submitting the request. They aren't *repeating* that testing, just taking 90 days to *review* it for accuracy and sound scientific principles.
What false statements SD, the hacked e-mails that Wikileaks published are what you are considering as stollen? No need to keep my day job as I am now happily retired.
Mark: Medical devices, no wonder you love Trump and the end o ObamaCare :>)
I can understand 90-days on product changes and enhancements, but this is for NEW USE products that can not be extensions of older products.
You are right that 90-days study means Americans will be the test bed. Breathe deep. Hey, it's not as bad as ObamaCare where all developed nations have some version. Only 60 countries ban asbestos....
KB --- try, with pictures: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/7/16/17575940/russian-election-hack-democrats-trump-putin-diagram
Or the actual Mueller indictment with the term stolen used 18 times. https://www.vox.com/2018/7/13/17568806/mueller-russia-intelligence-indictment-full-text
Then you should have had time to look this up :>)
“4CAT - Where does it state anywhere in that article that Trump has anything to do with the company using his image?”
It doesn’t, but that’s not the reason for posting it. The point is to keep the non-stop, anti-trump train rolling regardless of all else.
When in Rome do as the Romans do...
enough - I'm done biting the hook you keep tossing out.................see ya on a nice thread
Haha, it looks like you are the one that bought that tweet hook line and sinker.
Too bad it’s not a keeper.
"However, it appears that Trump lies exactly the same today as he did 21 years ago."
you mean an opinion he wrote in a book 21 years ago. he never stated it as a fact. hows that a lie?
Opinion: is that another trumpism for lie? And why does it matter, it was many posts ago, we must move on.
More asbestos, more coal, less efficient cars, viva la opinion of the day. What else can we pollute more with. Tommorrow doesn’t matter, save money today. Live cheap, breathe deep.
Who cares about the deficit. That one just sails by. Obama had a deficit too. And Trump’s is kick-a bigger. And that ain’t no opinion.
Thanks for the VOX link, where are the indictments for the Trump people that were involved? Where are the indictments for Wikileaks who released them?
kb2755 - Repeat after me: Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia
And in case you missed it: Russia ;-)
I can’t find any either, except for 24 Russians indictments, three Russians companies indicted.
Wonder what that could mean?
Ask Jit, he seems to be russian to judgement.
Uh-OH ...SD Just lost the only other person on his side on this thread LOLOLOL
Asbestos.....really? That's today's I just woke up and saw the news take away?
Asbestos has been around for years. I work around it in almost a weekly basis. It is not harmful at all if used properly and handled properly, and actually has quite a few uses where other products woulden't stand the test of time.
Move on to your next complaint.....your complaining about everything and anything anyways
Glad you're counting m friends and foes, Darrin. Good to have the coverage. But really, you need to stop obsessing with me. It's not becoming. Hopefully, you're, not your, more careful with the asbestos than your effect, not affect, on the English language :>)
Not to belabor a tired subject, the real discussion subject should be how the Trump Administration is killing us, killing the environment, all in the name of better business. And how we are letting them. But on asbestos.
Takes 10-30 years to catch; it's the gradual build up to the tipping point, and then you're dead. So you don't even have a clue as to your success in frequent contact with asbestos, only special training and safety equipment will save you. Especially if you are not a trained asbestos abatement technician. Although genetics pays a big part which is what I hope for you Darrin --- good genetics! Best luck Darrin and stay safe, it's a painful way to go.
The stats say after 40-years of EPA banning of most asbestos products for new use, more people are getting cancers from it every year. After 40 years, it's still a rising trend. More disturbing are the numbers of sick folks 40 years and younger ---- that shouldn't be happening. NJ is a higher risk state and it's not just our infrastructure age because other "older" states fare better. There was also major fallout from 9/11 recovery ---- with or without masks. IOW, paper masks are just not going to cut the dangers on a site like that. It's much more than slap a mask on and you're good to go. Think about that when frequently working with the stuff.
Might as well allow over-the-counter enriched uranium as offering "new use" asbestos products. After 40 years of no new asbestos products, why oh why allow new ones with just a 90-day review? A stranger danger indeed.
From Aaron Blake, WAPO,
“List of people charged with/pleading to crimes:
-Trump's 2nd campaign manager
-Trump's deputy campaign manager
-Trump's national security adviser
-Trump's foreign policy adviser
-Trump's 1st campaign manager (battery charges later dropped)
-Trump's first congressional endorser”
Whitehouse now considered a major crime area in DC.
speaking of meddling with elections
Six hundred and seventy ballots were cast in a Georgia precinct with 276 registered voters in the state’s primary election, according to the Georgia Secretary of State’s office.
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/08/georgia-defends-voting-system-despite-243-percent-turnout-in-one-precinct/
Atlanta City Hall staffer claimed she had to “print and deliver 500 blank absentee ballots” to an advocacy group staffer and pick up additional ballots from the Atlanta mayor’s campaign office to drop them off at an office in Fulton County.
https://www.ajc.com/news/state--regional-govt--politics/records-city-hall-staffer-claims-voter-fraud-2017-election/cPuLPgrSfBpjlyFdlCxRJK/
can we have voter ID yet?
"can we have voter ID yet?"
Remember Skippy... merely having to show ID infringes on one's right to vote (but not other rights).
72 voters over the age of 116 who “live” in Balderson’s district cast ballots in the 2016 election lol
https://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/08/08/expert-170-registered-voters-in-ohios-12th-district-listed-as-over-116-years-old/
"For eight years, I protected the integrity of Ohio elections as secretary of state. I witnessed firsthand the tactics used by the left to undermine confidence in the electoral system. Leftists attempt to cast doubt and assign sinister motives to processes and rules that have been in place for years. Many of these same rules go unchallenged in uncompetitive states."
Ken Blackwell, former Ohio secretary of state,
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2018/08/the_left_wants_to_control_ohio_elections.html
why are we not charging Soros with interfering in our elections?
"He has spent millions of dollars trying to weaken Ohio’s election security by funding efforts to both block its implementation of Voter ID and prevent the state from removing inaccurate registrations."
https://freebeacon.com/politics/clinton-lawyer-soros-back-anti-voter-id-lawsuits/
with up to and including owning the voting machine company
https://verocommunique.com/2016/10/31/george-soros-and-smartmatics-57000-voting-and-counting-machines-in-the-u-s/
if there is such a "Blue Wave" incoming why are Democrats fighting accurate elections and attempts to counter voter fraud?
LMFAO "Obsessing" ...yeah....don't flatter yourself SD! Secondly, you are the only person obsessing/and generally (on) this thread! That's like being in a room with one other person and asking why they are talking to you!
Typing from the phone....auto correct is crazy....sorry....don't give it the time of the day to go onto this site on my computer, nor to proof read!
Thanks - the CEO of the company is on the board of his charitable trust. I stand corrected
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/08/09/ben-shapiro-offers-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-10000-to-debate-her-democratic-socialist-beliefs.html
Ben Shapiro would wipe the floor with this clueless fool in a debate...
Her parents are both citizens
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/08/09/melania-trumps-parents-become-us-citizens.html
The the father in law supposedly did it to get access to better gainful employment.
https://www.townandcountrymag.com/society/politics/g9968592/melania-trump-parents-amalija-knavs-viktor-knavs/
It is what it is - she’s from an eastern block country and they’re visiting the family. I believe the current politically correct term is democratic socialist btw.
Still chain migration! Trump's in laws were foreign nationals with green cards and have been living with the president and first lady before they got naturalised! This is the first case were foreign nationals live in the WH. Strange but strangest and most hypocritical part are the trump voters who never think how Melania got her H1b. They are OK even if Melania misused and got her H1b or her parents got citizenship through chain migration but other legal immigrants or citizens shouldn't use chain migration!
H1b is for skilled workers whose positions cannot be filled by american workers, if supermodel like noami Campbell got h1b through modelling agencies, one would understand. But she wasn't supermodel when she got her H1b nor has she agreed to clarify on how she got her H1b publicly. So, there is this image she has build for herself, she got her H1b by one of those modelling agencies that abuse visas as Melania has refused to say anything publicly
Merit based immigration my sweet patooties. End of chain migration be damned. Because we need more 74-year old used car dealers.... Oh wait, it's not the law. It's "do as I say, not as I do," another role model action by the King.
This guy was not a communist, he was a party member. Perhaps a weak one, but still a member of the ruling class under communism. Melanoma was raised as one too.
Perhaps Trump has no other facilities to house them except the WhiteHouse.
Come on, Trump married a communist trophy wife and now schleps her family over, probably to keep her satisfied over his frequent dalliances, gropings, scandals, and hush money payoffs. But rumor has it that these new Americans promise to assimilate, Barron is supposedly speaking far less Slovenian these days.
It's like a stranger danger fiction; even Hollywood would turn it down for being over the top.
UPDATE: There are still nukes in North Korea. With US pulling out of Iran, there's enriched uranium coming there.
As of August 1, 572 kids, forced separated from family, remain in US custody. To answer Mets question --- on average 50% of children crossing, cross with parents. However, for these refugees, of the original 2151 kids, the government has reunited 1,979 with their parents, released to another family member or have turned 18 since being placed in government custody which is a tad higher than 50% Mets...…
Of the 572 still in jail, 493 have parents deported, parents who have left the country voluntarily, have parents released into the US or in places unknown. That's a lot of parents Mets.
Many of the volunteer leavings may not be "volunteer," as in "sign this or never see your kids again," can't speak English so signed, etc. ACLU has over 100 cases I think.
The judge has ordered the government to be responsible for any kid left behind....forever....
Remember, if it's Friday, it's Mueller time!
Since 1998, many Trump investments have been Russian based.
After his bailout by US tax payers, Trump needed money and no respectable investor would touch him. He started with the Bayrock Group – Russian mobsters and his major backer. Deutsche Bank became his major lender bank after no other bank would fund him anymore. DB fined $630M for laundering $10B Russian. Trump’s SOHO tower partners – Russian.
Trump Tower has 1/3rd of 10 floors rented to Russians/Russian LLCs. Over 60 Russians paid Trump $100M for Trump FL properties; one Russian spent $95M for a $45M Trump mansion.
Trump Tower Toronto, Russian financiers, including Vnesheconombank, the Putin Bank.
Don Jr. readily, publicly, admits Trump is Russian-backed. It is not conjecturing to say that since 1998, Donald has been financially tethered to Russia, it's all public knowledge. It’s not conjecture that being financially wed to Russia is to be in bed with Putin.
Does anyone have any facts to dispute this?
When you lie down with dirty dogs, you get fleas.
Melanoma, really? Don't even try to pretend that was autocorrect. Strange thing, you really are beyond help.
While I applaud your efforts SD and Yale, unfortunately there’s no current available treatment for the TDS that the right suffers. Bwahahaha.
And may I add, it’s BORDER not boarder. Geez you would think that once you’ve seen the written word about a million times it might, just might sink in. Apparently not. Carry on.
So there's collusion because the Trump brand conducts business with Russian individuals and companies???????
Holy cow, delusion is too kind a word for this line of thinking. Simply take that thought one step further - just one! You’d conclude, then, that every company/individual that does business with Russian companies/individuals should be suspected of collusion!
Damn, this is one sick society we’ve become if that thought process is common place simply because the people throwing the accusation are filled with hate. Sickness indeed!!!!!!
http://insider.foxnews.com/2018/08/10/mark-levin-mueller-threat-united-states-more-vladimir-putin
This guy just destroyed you SD.
Melania Trump’s Parents Become U.S. Citize
ns Using ‘Chain Migration':
https://nyti.ms/2MbfWj4
OnTheEdge lol true fact - I doubt they will be costing the tax payers anything in terms of their presence.
Chain migration or not - they obtained all the legal paperwork and citizenship.
I guess some people here would rather they snuck in illegally... then they'd be defending the Knavs family.
It's also a pretty short chain here... Melania followed by her parents. It's not like the whole town of Sevnica is moving to Pennsylvania Avenue.
Mother of anchor baby is denied entry to US and banned for 5 years because US taxpayers paid for the baby's hospital costs.
https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Mexican-tourist-denied-entry-at-Bush-after-13139345.php
see this right here is chain immigration and Fraud. This woman gamed the system. She knew exactly what she was doing. She made fraudulent statements to immigration officials to gain entry so she could have an anchor baby here.
She admits herself she could have paid the medical expenses:
"Had that not been the case, he said she would have covered her medical expenses with her family”s help and from income she receives from a rental property in Mexico. She and her husband are also regional distributors for a line of high end cookware. "
just so you can see the difference - and she was denied re-entry womp womp.
Philadelphia releases Honduran illegal who ICE had a detainer on. He then goes on to rape a 5 year5 old girl. Also caught on tape is the Mayor doing a dance when they become a Sanctuary City.
http://www.philly.com/philly/columnists/stu_bykofsky/juan-ramon-vasquez-philadelphia-mayor-jim-kenney-sanctuary-child-rape-stu-bykofsky-20180809.html?mobi=true
“there’s no current available treatment for the TDS that the right suffers. Bwahahaha.”
Sorry, I see that you are practically begging to have that statement corrected:
there’s no current available treatment for the PDS (political derangement syndrome) that the LEFT AND RIGHT suffers. Bwahahaha.
Mark Mc,
I have always said those illegals should go back and come here legally. If you check my comments in earlier threads, it's there for everyone to see and I am also against abuse of H1b visa. I have colleagues who are on H1b and I can tell you they are very talented and expertise in their area of jobs and what I told about is how Melania obtained her H1b needs to be explained by her. She shouldn't keep quiet. You don't give H1B away to every wannabe models in Europe or post USSR countries, just like candies! That was point. I already said it I don't support DACA nor illegal immigrants. My point is Melania is a public figure now, she represents america, if people questions how she obtained a highly skilled workers visa(usually issued when the position cannot be filled by Americans) as a struggling model? Who sponsored her visa? She should come clean and vindicate herself that she was skilled and was sponsored through appropriate channels. If struggling models(not well established) in Europe,Russia and all those former USSR can obtain H1B visa just for their looks, then America is in severe lack of struggling models! How she obtained her H1B visa needs to be investigated. H1b is issued to foreigners for jobs that cannot be filled by Americans after the jobs has been posted by the sponsoring companies.
Skippy,
Melania may spend for her parents need as they may or may not use tax payer benefits- healthcare. But since you and most people don't have issue with Melania's parents becoming US citizens through chain migration, you shouldn't have problem about naturalization and chain migration of naturalised US citizens(who may be from Mexico, Asia,Africa,Europe or elsewhere) and stop complaining about chain migration altogether.
Either you support it or you don't. It can't be in between like I support in Melania case but rest we should stop it after this!
I nor anyone else here said anything about being against anyone coming here legally.
I have no problem with people becoming naturalized - if you’re admitted legally bring the rest of the fam here legally - rock on more tax payers.
Skippy,
Thanks for your clarification on chain migration.
I know well educated highly qualified and skilled H1b colleagues who have been paying their taxes for years and without using any govt benefits- except for public schools for their kids,they deserve respect no matter which part of the world they come from, they came here because our country issued them visa through thorough background checks and proper verification and are sponsored by US companies.
The Yale, there are many qualified people here that have lost their jobs to people that have been granted H1b visas. It's all about dollars and cents. Companies have been abusing the system for years. Why pay someone $200k when you can pay someone 100k or less. I do think there are jobs that require people with H1bs but it is abused like every other program.
Kbb: First, most immigrants who come to the US to work are on the H1B visa; and that number has been capped at 65,000 every year since 2004. (There are other visa programs available, but the H1B is the main one, and it doesn’t all go to software engineers.) Second, rising wages should be prima facie evidence that there’s a shortage of labor. If immigrants have flooded the market, then we should see that wages have declined; that hasn’t been the case. So, how can 65,000 immigrants be taking away all the jobs? Those are very experienced people who are coming in, they don't steal jobs, they come on site in the US for projects they were already working abroad. No new jobs are created for them, they are already in the projects and are moved here for better collaboration.
I beg to differ.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/silenced-workers-who-lost-jobs-to-h-1b-visa-abuse-quietly-speak-out
https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterbendorsamuel/2017/03/20/cbs-sheds-light-on-american-job-loss-and-h-1b-visa-issues/#b8755597c792
For your first link, the foreign contractors did nothing wrong. It all depends on the company which fired workers how they want to implement the project, outsourced off-site or on site. First, most US companies outsourced their projects. But they do it legally, if they didn't do it legally, they would have been penalized by now.
https://www.scpr.org/news/2015/10/22/55178/feds-conclude-investigation-into-firm-that-provide/
Second, most US companies are MNCs, the revenue comes back to the US, and most of their operations and projects are executed abroad, that's how MNCs work-you can say outsourced, I won't called it outsourced because to be global companies these companies set branches abroad, do business with other foreign vendors
In your second link, there is case Apple, Disney, Facebook, Google, etc using H1b aggressively, of course, what did you expect? Apple, Facebook, Microsoft, Google have R&D big branches all over the world! They transfer their own employees here for the same project they are working on or different ones. Almost all H1b visa holders come here because the project is already there, and they are working on it, and most of them are internal companies transfer. Only in few cases like you mentioned, a few company decides to outsourced the project altogether and there was a senate level investigation and no wrong doing was found on the implementating companies.
Most of America tech jobs are implementated abroad, so cutting H1b is not going to create or increase jobs here. Companies will move the projects/jobs abroad because they have offices all over the world, wherever there are matching skillsets and implementation feasibility they will execute their project there.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-h-1b_us_5890d86ce4b0522c7d3d84af
Not sure TheYale HuffPo feels Trumps EO will increase wages for H1-Bs
“Damn, this is one sick society we’ve become if that thought process is common place simply because the people throwing the accusation are filled with hate. Sickness indeed!!!!!!”
We’re the sick ones……right….
Ask yourself this. Russia has the same economic size and money value as Italy; why aren’t there as many Italian sympathizers on team Trump? What's special about Russian-money ties? There are 16 million persons of Italian heritage in the US; there’s less than a million persons of Soviet Union heritage. Why so many Russian-linked white guys in Trump’s life, business, campaign, and now administration? Can you find any other country so embedded in Trump’s government? I mean we haven’t had so many foreign ties in our government since George Washington’s was full of Englishmen. It’s very, very strange that such a small economy has such access to our government.
Which country invaded Poland with the Nazis? Russia.
Which country did we face in the Indochina War? Russia.
Which country backed North Vietnam in our conflict there? Russia.
How about North Korea? Russia.
Which country did we first meet in Afghanistan? Russia.
Which country backs our adversary, Assad, in Syria? Russia
Which country, among all nations, has the most investment with the Trump organization? Russia
Which country, among all nations, beyond the US has the most associations with the Trump campaign? Russia
Which country, among all nations, beyond the US has more associations with the Trump administration? Russia
Which country meddled in our 2016 elections, fed us disinformation and lies to instill civic unrest in America? Russia
Which country continues to meddle today? Russia
Which country, beyond the US, was best represented at Trump’s inauguration? Russia
Which country since 1945 has "annexed" more countries? Russia
Which country’s weapons have killed more of our kids than any other nation in the last 70+ years? Russia
I don’t think hatred has anything to do with it. I think it's Patriotism. And Patriotism must lead us to defend our country against any and all foreign adversaries where ever they face us. I would rather face a thousand undocumented Mexicans than one Russian Spy infiltrating the NRA, Republican Party, and beyond.
“So there's collusion because the Trump brand conducts business with Russian individuals and companies???????” As I have said before, even after the job, if your Mentor calls, do you listen? Do you try, if possible, to accede to their requests? Who better knows all your little secrets than the guys funding you? Does that persuade you to do their bidding?
Yes, there is no smoking gun...yet. But there is way too much smoke on this one. To call those calling for investigation as TDS ridden, or “delusional,” is your right. But you are wrong not to look, to question, to speak out.
Skippy,
I know H1b recieves lower wages then their american counterparts. My point is simple: Most projects are already being awarded by american companies to other american multi-national companies and foreign vendors. And such projects are already in execution abroad most of the time. Many of these projects are being executed off-site abroad at the foreign vendor locations or offshore offices of the America MNCs abroad. And abroad payscale are lower as we know. And there is project coordination going on a daily, weekly basis between onshore(US) and offshore teams(rest of the world). This is how projects are executed by MNCs all over the world in any field- IT, Finance, healthcare. It's not something like how we opened and run auto-service or a small restaurant in our town, entirely with local resources.
So, in MNCs when there is need to bring in to the US, a few of the implementating team members, they are given H1b to come on site, of course they can't work here on tourists visa. And they are given salary based on the binding project contract's wages/hours (which is always expected to be lower than the american counterparts). So most of the H1b (more than 95%) have already implementating projects before they even land here, it's not like jobs are waiting for them and they are jobless and coming here for jobs. These are company transfer for team members of projects. People saying here H1b are still jobs on lower wages have no idea about how big big MNC projects are implemented, wages for these foreign workers are lower based on the project contract amount calculated on resources and other requirements.
It's good that trump is increasing the minimum wage because they will get a better pay here. If the implementating companies are not ready to sponsor their H1b, they can still implement it from abroad. Simply increasing wages for H1b will not create just jobs here.
And say if american brand hotel like Hilton's give a big project to Oracle to build a cloud based Enterprise solution. There is no guarantee that Oracle is going to create jobs for that here and implement their projects here. They can legally implement this project at any of their locations worldwide. So, reducing the number of H1b or increasing their minumum wages are not going to create jobs here.
Melania Trump supposedly came in on an "Einstein " visa: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43256318
I think the point is Melania got in on her looks; she, and her husband, chained the parents in, and now we have a card-hold communist party member residing at times in the White House with a braggart who can't keep a secret and won't even get in trouble if he tells one.
Has our White House ever been more foreign?
If this man wants us to behave in a certain fashion, why is he above what he is telling us to do?
It's not about the law, it's about character.
Meanwhile, there's still the sister who is still probably in NYC. Wonder what her status is for citizenship? Not to worry about the half-brother; Melania forgets him too.
OnTheEdge : thanks for correcting me, it's EB1(Einstein) visa issued for people with extraordinary abilities. And it's not H1b, and Melania's case needs to be thoroughly investigated how she obtained EB1, what supporting documents she submitted to obtain the visa.
And most importantly who sponsored her visa?? If she lied or obtained her visa in an abusive way, then she needs to be stripped of her citizenship and deported like every other visa fraud accused.
TheYale, are you trying to give the phrase “witch hunt” a whole new meaning? ;-)
“But you are wrong not to look, to question, to speak out.”
As long as you’re not simply making sh*t up I agree completely. So how about not creating the smoke in the first place and turning off your PDS fog machine?
Generalized statements will never stop me. Nor will your frequent name calling. I do not have TDS, PDS or any other quite little name you make up.
Try facts and we can discuss.
Yeah, but your “facts” are completely and utterly out of context!!!! You have been quite literally playing fast and loose with this and any other tidbit that you think will paint trump in a bad light. That’s just flat out wrong, and I don’t care what political association you are.
And I did not nor am I calling you names. I specifically said *Political* derangement because you’re just one of a GREAT many who’ve been getting all worked up by those in positions of power - Govt officials, party leaders, news outlets and the like - all of whom have a vested interest in seeing trump minimized!
Look, I’ve agreed time after time that the guy’s a jerk. But damn it that doesn’t mean that all of us have to be jerks too! You’re last post isn’t even comprehensible: Trump is a multi national company! One of thousands I’m guessing, that have some sort of dealings with Russia. And there’s not a thing wrong with that at all! Trading with other countries isn’t exactly an unheard of thing, is it?????
No, political derangement syndrome is here, and the majority of Republicrats with a platform suffer from it today. Sickening really how bad it has gotten.
@SD "Meanwhile, there's still the sister who is still probably in NYC. Wonder what her status is for citizenship"
Your worried about that one person....but in the meantime are willing to turn the blind eye and spend $$ on thousands of illegal Immigrants coming in from Mexico.........unreal!
SD, you have been doing anything BUT discussing....you instead continually "chant" the same thing over and over again. You have proven yourself time and time again, and more so then ever on this topic, to completely ignore what other are saying. This is the exact reason why I do not even bother discussing the topic (or really any topics) with you any more.
And by the way TDS is not name calling, it's a diagnosis....and you DEFINITELY have it!!!! Trump could fix the national debt tomorrow and I guarantee you would still have something bad to say about it......the literal example given in the definition of TDS.
Been on vacation...
I see I haven't missed anything....
Same old same old here.....
"And by the way TDS is not name calling, it's a diagnosis...."
"And I did not nor am I calling you names. I specifically said *Political* derangement "
I am sorry gents. But it sure sounds like a personal attack to me to be called "derangement" even if Dr. Darrin diagnosed me. And putting lipstick on the pig is just JIT's manner of going PC with the term; the fact that he broadened the attack to include many does not diminish the personal side of it.
And calling me a jerk JIT is name calling for sure even if you put the veil of the rhetorical about it.
The fact that TDS is meant to qualify the sanity of someone does not help your case either.
Donald J. Trump is a proven fraud, a frequent cheat, and the greatest liar of a President in US History. Your claim is that I kind find no good actions regarding this man.
One of the things Trump-whisperers say we should Trump-applaud is this fantastic economy. The economy based on the fantastic Trump tax cuts, bigger than Reagan's. Of course, he's Trump, they have to be bigger, that's the important part. Of course supporters miss the fact that the economy is, more than ever before, more than under Obama, deficit fueled with the expected $1T deficit adding to our largest ever $20T+ debt. Trump's prediction of tax cut coverage via expanding economy has not come true. It's getting worse. And we have an ever smaller cushion for a collapse, if any cushion at all.
So far for 2018, our trade deficit has ballooned, expected 5% increase in 2018. The tariffs are not helping.
My question is why do you keep supporting this fake President?
But the bottom line is that if you wish to discuss the facts, I am all game. If you continue the personal attacks, I will continue to point them out, factually. This was a personal attack, tag teaming it does not make it less so. Saying I don't discuss because I repeat myself and therefore ignore you is not true, that I am "worried" about something because I mention it, and not something else, is avoiding the discussion.
So let's do one: JIT' fact is: "Trump is a multi national company! One of thousands I’m guessing, that have some sort of dealings with Russia. And there’s not a thing wrong with that at all! Trading with other countries isn’t exactly an unheard of thing, is it?????"
JIT, when you read the previous facts I have posted, you will note that Trump does not "deal" with the Russians; his organization is funded by them or by their money-laundering banks. And then he sells things to them, sometimes at strange inflated prices seemingly without any added value for his 100% profit margins. Like they were giving him cash Tillerson dealt with the Russians and a multi-national. Trump is probably owned by the Russians, Mueller knows what's up with this, you passed on finding out and just elected him instead. That's a huge difference from just doing a little business their like Tillerson did. So no, this is not the same as what you said, not at all. FACT.
Oh yeah, the last leg of the stool, Trump-supporters cling to is immigration. What can I say about the media event, marketing ploy of mandatory family separation except that it was 24-hour's legal, until not deemed legal by the President's EO I guess which wrote law.... And then after deeming said legal action, illegal, we still have over 700 kids to deal with, probably mostly as new citizens in our foster care system. Brilliant.
And the WALL is reportedly over budget, late on schedule, and imperfect in terms of security. Of course, that's Trump's government reporting this.....must be fake spews again.... https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/gov-t-report-warns-trump-s-wall-may-bust-budget-n898066
You know if the shoe fits . . . .
"continually "chant" the same thing over and over again."
+1 Darrin, yep, it's the 'Big Lie" technique in action, the Goebbels propaganda technique, and its just not working, but the OCD compulsion to keep attempting it over and over again falsely claiming some sort of factual authority is beyond the pale.
"You have proven yourself time and time again, and more so then ever on this topic, to completely ignore what other are saying"
Again another big +1. The level of dense obtuseness clearly demonstrates a complete lack of emotional intelligence in understanding how this compulsive repeating of the 'Big Lie' Goebbels technique is coming across is off the charts.
" TDS is not name calling, it's a diagnosis....and you DEFINITELY have it!!!! "
+1, +2, and a very big +3 ! This statement is rated as TRUE.
In my view the complete idiocy in this whole thread is off the charts, how is this a discussion? It's an embarrassing way to spend so much of your precious time. Obsessive doesn't even begin to explain it.
Bring in the Nazi’s; but it’s not personal. It’s just the way you say it is. Of course.
"My question is why do you keep supporting this fake President? "
Still waiting for any reasonable proof at all of this claim. You realize this attitude essentially makes you a "birther", right? A "collusioner" I guess we'll call you, lol.
StrangerCollusioner
Really nothing more than a conspiracy theorist. My my, what does it feel like to BE exactly what you have ridiculed others for the in past?
Ah, and that makes it right for you to continure the personal attack's.
When you have facts to add to the discussion, I will be here.
Otherwise, it’s just more name-calling, stereotyping, branding noise.
Collusion; what do you call it when you meet with the expressed purpose, according to the President, to obtain stolen information, in two separate meetings, with agents of a foreign adversary. Remember, conspiracy to collude only requires intent. And we’re talking campaign law.
What do you call it when you lie to hide this from investigators telling multiple fabrications.
And that’s just in the public domain.
TDS and PDS are real things: https://www.facebook.com/DCNFthefacts/videos/632404367159482/
SD,
Did I name-call? Do you take offense at my saying you are just like the birthers were? I didn't call you a name. I suggested we change your screen name to StrangerCollusioner because that's ALL you EVER talk about, even bringing it into the Monsanto thread.
In other news...
Did CNN recently commit an act of journalism? Or is this a fake?
Good post JR! The numbers don't lie! Doesn't seem fake, it's right on CNN's website
https://www.cnn.com/videos/tv/2018/08/06/ip-wall-trump-v-obama.cnn
Yeah, must be fun to claim 'personal attack" and cry in the corner meanwhile all you have been doing is personally attacking the president and all who support him since he was ELECTED!
Smoke and mirrors my friend....we are not that dumb, nor do I think anyone else reading this thread is, you can keep trying if you might, but now lashing out is only burying you deeper.
@SD "What do you call it when you lie to hide this from investigators telling multiple fabrications. "
Add to that smashing some government property with hammers to further hide evidence and I would call it HILARY CLINTON!!!!!!!!
But no, no, no...we won';t talk about her here.....she was the best there could have been......do I really need to say more? your hypocrisy is astonishing.
Meanwhile, Trump's numbers are way better then your self proclaimed hero, Obummer's ever were....yet all this b.s. talk and some people cannot get on board with what "winning" is like LOL!
Have you guys seen the "retaliation" to Trump's star on Hollywood Blvd being destroyed??? Hilarious!!!
https://abc7.com/entertainment/dozens-of-fake-trump-stars-fill-hollywood-walk-of-fame/3926773/
The news constantly bashes Trump, but when you look at our country's progress since he's been in charge, even cynics must admit, he's turning this Titanic around.
Look at how much better the unemployment rate has gotten, and how much better the economy has become.
He has already surpassed the benchmarks he set during his campaign speeches (which were scoffed at in 2016 by Harvard's best).
He got us out of Ridiculous "deals" where USA footed the bill for nonsense.
ISIS's activity is diminished because we got out of that "antinuclear deal" that stunk, (And also because now our government is no longer sending over planes full of cash).
American People are not anti race- We just cannot afford to keep taking in people who take $ from us in the form of free housing, free electricity, free Medicaid, and Foodstamps, not to mention the $50,000 per year to educate each child under 21.
I know there are hard workers who are illegals, but most are paid cash, off the books, which they send home to their relatives. They also do not marry their live-in girlfriends, whom they impregnate, and then there are more people on the welfare.
It is upsetting that they do not contribute to our tax base, yet they feel entitled to the "Free" things taxpayers are paying for.(NOT free! We pay!)
[You might want to Google the article "Joe verses Jose" It was written several years ago by a fed up taxpayer in California. And it makes sense that Joe is upset at the unfairness. ]
Also, A tremendous amount of Nontaxed Cash is sent (by illegal immigrants and H class noncitizens and people who overstay their student or work visas) to Mexico, India, and China.
Our taxes are soaring because of Illegal immigration.
Look at the numbers.
Taxpaying citizens can not afford to keep paying for this.
It is also not OK to keep enabling this unethical behavior.
And this is why we must enforce the laws.
There are guidelines in place so people can become legal self supporting US immigrants and then citizens. My parents did it.
And stop buying into the hype- REMEMBER There are over 30 LEGAL ports of entry for people to cross from Mexico into American, where they will not be separated from their children.
There's only 1 person in the world that suffers from MDS- MUELLER DERANGEMENT SYNDROME! Whenever the president has his bouts of MDS publicly on Twitter,he accused everyone else who is critical of him of suffering TDS(trump derangement syndrome). But for TDS there is FDA certified drug called REZINE. Luckily there is no cure for MDS and MUELLER himself is immune to any kind of syndrome or derangement!
"And stop buying into the hype- REMEMBER There are over 30 LEGAL ports of entry for people to cross from Mexico into American, where they will not be separated from their children."
Oh, but that's not good enough. They want to be in here NOW. RIGHT NOW. And we should let them. ALL of them. No questions asked, no vetting done.
...especially if we can get them to vote democrat. ;)
"There are over 30 LEGAL ports of entry for people to cross from Mexico into American, where they will not be separated from their children."
Case in point! The liberals purposely ignore this VERY simple fact just to create a tirade of agenda seeking drama.....it's honestly unreal.
First, many arriving at US Ports of Entry were all separated from their parents when it was "zero tolerance mandatory separation." Even at legal ports of entry. Many a ACLU case over that one are pending. That, like JIT's, Darrin's and JR's personal attacks, was just so deplorable that Trump had to walk it back ASAP when it came to light with his fake EO deemed unnecessary but instead done for effect. Now your government seems impotent to put these Humpty Dumpty families back together again to the point that US taxpayers will be funding the upbringing, growth and development of hundreds of foster kids that you created, apparently our newest, yet certainly not happiest, citizens.
Second, after the family separation debacle, it appears that the Trump administration has instituted a mandatory slowdown at each of the legal ports of entry. Many of the legal asylum seekers are now stopped at the legal port of entry and denied access because there "is no room at the inn." Supposedly, the port of entry is oversubscribed. They are turned away. Days, weeks, sometimes for up to a month which is impossible for the asylum seeker to endure. Sleeping on the streets in Tijuana is not pleasant. Especially since after a month, the asylum seeker hasn't not a clue whether the port of entry will become available.
Trump officials do not release any asylum or port of entry statistics to show that they are oversubscribed. We have to take their word for it, and that word is often: LIE. They have not provided any additional resources to help with the crisis. Nor do they release the number of people successfully processed each day. Perhaps that's what keeps Trump's supporters happiest, not knowing, that the government is potentially processing zero asylum seekers at the ports of entry which is not being a shining light upon the hill much less one that follows its own rule of law.
"But since May 12, she has noticed a significant slowdown in the number of asylum seekers being processed by U.S. border officers at the Nogales port, to about three daily." https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/immigration/2018/06/20/asylum-seekers-face-long-waits-slow-processing-border/719670002/
These stories are as frequent fare at our Southern Ports of Entry as are the sordid refugee camps creating just South of the Ports of Entry.
Trump did not create this current refugee, asylum, crisis. It occurred because life has become intolerable in Central America. It has become intolerable, in part, because we created Banana Republics, fueled criminality with our illegal drug demand, and now brought it to Central America with our success in interdiction in South America. Trump iss just doing his best to exacerbate this crisis for his own political gain. Separating kids was just a photo op for him as a marketing message for refugees telling them: "I'm a tough guy, stay away -- we don't want immigrants."
We can be more compassionate than this.
JR: Fake President, like fake news, is defined by Trump's frequent fake spews. He is on record as the greatest lying President in US history. If you want, there is a database. The good news is that Trump has created jobs by lying so much. Now there are fleets of people tracking the lies, comparing the lies historically, and creating massive lie databases to be known as the Trump Presidential Lie-berry.
Of course, you are incapable of noticing that. I understand. It's a deplorable thing indeed.
"That, like JIT's, Darrin's and JR's personal attacks,"
Right, right... SR, the "victim." Got it.
"JR: Fake President, like fake news, is defined by Trump's frequent fake spews. "
Ah. So he's NOT ACTUALLY a "fake president." He's a legitimate president. YOUR president. LOL
"Of course, you are incapable of noticing that. I understand. It's a deplorable thing indeed."
And WE are the ones name-calling? Dude, you need help.... you've lost touch with reality.
A country without borders is not a country.
The open borders crowd is out of control and obsessed with making everything negative about their president. Unbalanced and myopically one sided they repeat their own lies all day long hoping to convince others of their false assumptions.
It's not working, and I thank god for that. The midterms will go to the Republicans and they will keep control of both houses. Most likely will pick up a couple of senate seats which is great.
The confirmation of Kavanaugh before the election will be very good for the country, and very good for constitutional law. Next step there will be to replace RBG with a solid conservative for a change.
SD HAS OFFICIALLY GONE OFF THE DEEP END!!!!
WARNING WARNING WARNING!'
again I will repeat myself....
Yeah, must be fun to claim 'personal attack" and cry in the corner meanwhile all you have been doing is personally attacking the president and all who support him since he was ELECTED!
Smoke and mirrors my friend....we are not that dumb, nor do I think anyone else reading this thread is, you can keep trying if you might, but now lashing out is only burying you deeper.
And what about the thousands of US families that have been scarred for life by the crimes committed by illegal immigrants. Murder, rape and countless other crimes. We will be picking up the tab for those low lifes.
Ah, we can add GreyHawk to the growing list of allowed name callers using this device to belittle those with different views.
JR: as to my "name calling," let me help you with the English language. First, when you pull quotes out of context, it is easy with cherry-pick to derive your own meaning from a passage.
You will note though that deplorable is an adjective clarifying the noun "thing" defined as "an object that one need not, cannot, or does not wish to give a specific name to" or "an inanimate material object as distinct from a living sentient being."
Now, as much as I would like you to fit those definitions :>), you do not. I did not call you a name; I called a thing deplorable. So what might it mean..... That's where the previous sentence comes in. "Of course, you are incapable of noticing that." And that's what's deplorable, the action of not noticing that Trump is the greatest liar of all President's of all time in America, you incapacity to notice that Trump is the greatest liar of any President, living or not.
Not you, the person, but the action itself is what I branded.
I mean, let's face it, Trump's lies are a documented number. Behind the number is not only a listing of the lies, but a full accounting of why, exactly, each lie on the long list of lies is indeed a lie. The database even goes as far as categorize the type of lies, as in, fabrication, exaggeration, typo, etc.
So unless you are a thing, I did not name call you. Hope that clarifies your confusion.
Although this does bring to mind the movement to deport anyone who can not assimilate and speak English? Not for me, since I would probably be the first to go :>), but just saying :>)
"And what about the thousands of US families that have been scarred for life by the crimes committed by illegal immigrants. Murder, rape and countless other crimes. We will be picking up the tab for those low lifes."
If criminality is the metric for being a citizen, I am afraid much of the indigenous species will have to go before the new comers.
Immigrants have lower crime rates than citizens, statistically speaking at least.
"If native-born Americans were incarcerated at the same rate as illegal immigrants, about 930,000 fewer natives would be incarcerated. Conversely, if natives were incarcerated at the same rate as legal immigrants, about 1.5 million fewer natives would be in adult correctional facilities."
https://www.factcheck.org/2018/06/is-illegal-immigration-linked-to-more-or-less-crime/
If you listen to Trump, you hear a lot of lies. If you repeat a lot of Trump, you are telling a lot of lies.
Thinnest skin with the most offensive style in forum history, bar none and blind to it, completely tone deaf and lacking the emotional intelligence to understand it. You know if the shoe fits . . . .
The OCD compulsion is off the charts here.
“First, when you pull quotes out of context, it is easy with cherry-pick to derive your own meaning from a passage.”
Finally!
JIT, now don't start thinking SD is going to actually APPLY that paradigm to HIMSELF, because he NEVER does that (takes a quote out of context to derive his own meaning from it).....
"Not you, the person, but the action itself is what I branded."
So then,
"Trump tells lies" is true (according to your testimony).
"Trump is a liar" is false (or at least, name-calling).
Got it. Thanks for the clarification.
Your right on two accounts ianimal......we are trying to help starngerdanger, and it certainly appears we are wasting our time!!!!
SD, do you follow your own "rules"
@ SD "“First, when you pull quotes out of context, it is easy with cherry-pick to derive your own meaning from a passage.”
BAHGAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! This is EXACTLY what you have been doing for years!!!!!
@ SD "belittle those with different views" Oh you mean exactly like you do to anyone who supports our current president?
Do you ever look in the mirror?
I have a genuine question for SD and the virulent anti- Trump people. Do you truly believe we would be in a better place under Hillary or Bernie?
I fail to see how anyone can say we’re in a worse place with Trump in office. The economy is booming, he’s gotten us out of wasteful programs that Obama put us in, the middle class have more money in their paychecks (you can thank the loony Dems for not voting for it to make it permanent), corporations can compete better with the rest of the world since their taxes are lowered, and we have a leader who doesn’t apologize to the rest of the world but shows strength. What are the negatives? You don’t like that he isn’t politically correct? You’re worried about extra-marital affairs he had as a private citizen? The haters go after him for stuff like that but ignore all of Hillary’s faults. She shamed all of her husbands victims. The Benghazi debacle. The email debacle. She profited off of a uranium sale to Russia. People connected to her that mysteriously die off. Her corrupt foundation. Then you have Bernie with his free college and healthcare nonsense…. If he had been elected and implemented that stuff how do you think it would have been paid for? Our taxes would have went through the roof.
Worse place? Now, no.
The better question is it sustainable? Given that the Trump boom is based on debt creation *and* tax cuts I can’t see how anyone could see this path as sustainable. Because there’s not a huge corresponding spending decrease it’s more like short-sighted thinking imo. Iow, the Trump era will likely end up as the biggest credit-card binge in history! Short term it feels great, but long term... well we all know about that too.
Nope. He’s just another Republicrat working the system so we feel good today at the expense of those who follow. As I said earlier, when in Rome do as the Romans do.
"Imagine if all of you spent all this wasted time helping others..."
LOL "all this time?" 30 seconds here, 2 minutes there? SD is the only one writing novels and "spending all this time".
Damn. There goes another 30 seconds LOL.
TDS is a real condition. I have lots of friends I call Patriots. Some may call us, them other names, but at the end of the day, we all love this country, and yet many lie in the shadows, afraid to come out. That time is past because of people like the one in the picture.
We now see the lawless and the deranged attacking our rights in other ways under this president to the point where they know they are trying a soft coup.
Wake up, things are getting ugly.
We're conservatives, "we are trying to help starngerdanger."
"And WE are the ones name-calling? Dude, you need help...."
"This is EXACTLY what you have been doing for years!!!!!"
Ah, the old you did it first so it's OK for me defense for name calling.
Speaking for the insane deranged snowflakes amongst us, I am heartened that you have honored me by following in my footsteps. When I go low, you CAN go lower. Good job. Keep up the name calling, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. And let's keep calling it out when it happens. Perhaps if we work together, we will get better.
JIT +1 --- that's what I said....but wordier.... However, he is hardly a Republicrat. A larger tax cut than Reagan's favoring the rich and business. Tariffs? Ending Trade Agreements without replacement, Deregulating Banks to allow lending/finance to be merged again, one of the actions causing The Great Recession. Defunding the CFPB that scored $12B from bank settlements for bad deeds, Reduction of North American oil and gas supplies w/o replacements, and more. Business, with so much cash on hand and not spending it during the Obama years, just took Trump's gift and did the right thing, they bought down their own debt while Trump added to his. Trump's economic plan is more like a low-horsepower car in a demolition derby as we careen from crash to accident and back again. But it's a good show, so we don't notice all the damage occurring with each chaotic crash. Chaos and the economy don't sit well and combined with Trump's massive deficit adding to our over-the-top debt could lead to a cataclysmic crash as people decide the risk of spending is too much.
"Sixty-five percent of companies responding to a Bank of America Merrill Lynch survey say they would use at least some of the repatriated cash to pay down debt."
https://www.businessinsider.com/gop-tax-bill-american-companies-to-use-repatriation-to-pay-down-debt-2017-12
So when you put a tariff on, the world reacts, and we have to cough up an unanticipated $12B in tax dollars to support all the soybeans left rotting on the ground. That's just one tariff. Meanwhile the trickle-down theory that all of this chaos is not outpacing the deficit and debt he has created.
Neither Republicans or Democrats would have played these Trumpian economic actions. It's an entropy model of economics.
https://www.thenation.com/article/5-trump-policies-leading-us-towards-economic-chaos/
No doubt Trump and Company took a loan on his $3B inheritance tax Trump rebate wind fall as well as his businesses profit from the free advertising from the Oval Office for access and more.
METS: I beg to differ on some of your facts.
“the middle class have more money in their paychecks” Forbes would differ: “How The GOP Tax Plan Scrooges Middle Class, Retired And Poor” https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnwasik/2017/11/29/how-the-gop-tax-plan-scrooges-middle-class-retired-and-poor/#4c7e7d1d6c1e
“corporations can compete better with the rest of the world since their taxes are lowered,” You do realize that Trump’s corporate tax cut affects C-class corporations only, right? That’s 5% of all businesses but 40% of all revenues. What does that mean for competition? What about the 95% covering 60% of the revenues? Now the 5% are more competitive with our domestic 95% too. So beyond 65% of these tax winners paying off their debt with the profits, some will focus their sights on the other 95% of companies that compete with them. Not quite a clean picture according to the CFR: https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/how-will-tax-overhaul-affect-us-competitiveness
“You don’t like that he isn’t politically correct?” I don’t think it’s about politically correct, never has been. We’re beyond that. We just fired our best investigator on Russian for not being politically correct. His excuse of “pillow talk” and “rational reply” didn’t fly. But the guy at the top always has an excuse – it’s was long ago, wasn’t President then, pillow talk, locker room talk, etc. It’s not the affairs anyway, it’s the hush money and its source that’s important.
But you say it’s all OK, because Hillary makes it so? That’s your rationale for your Trumpism?
Shaming – hmm, no Trump never does that…. Benghazi --- I am sorry, your side voted no support for any of the allegations ----- ten times, ten investigations.
“She profited off of a uranium sale to Russia. People connected to her that mysteriously die off. Her corrupt foundation”. This is a series of lies. Hillary did not profit, she killed no one, and she has no foundation.
We know what you say about Trump’s success, it’s better than Hillary….and then Bernie??? Why Bernie? But OK. I think my issue is that at this point in the economy, starting with the upside potential that Obama handed off (versus The Great Recession he was handed), a giant tax cut causing greater deficit and debt (even if you believe in trickle down, you just have to admit the initial effect is debt), it would be better to put money in the bank than to take more out. Point is that if we do have a downturn, there’s really not much gas left in our tank, or our bank.
Tired of hearing it’s a tax cut for the rich… The low income people get all their taxes back when they file their taxes and qualify for other programs. What is the government supposed to send them extra money? Try getting a skill that’s in demand and stop being lazy. And people like me, the average middle class, the savings per month is like an extra cart of groceries. So that may seem like chump change, but every bit helps. Taxing businesses less is a good thing. If you’re taxing some businesses 40% how in the world can that business survive? People lose jobs and it makes the economy suck.
Sorry to tire you with the truth.
Ah yes, being poor is the poor's problem. Personal responsibility, right? They don't deserve a hand. They are lazy. They are unskilled.
Because I might be worth much more than you does not make you lazy in my book. It's not because you have less skill than I. It's not because I have more education than you. I have a lot of luck. My possibility of being more affluent than you does not make you less a man. Personally, I like lending a hand, not a hand out to raise the poor out of poverty. I do it through the Church, through other charities, but find doing it through the government to be more egalitarian and not constrained by religious overtones. I find a rising tide lifts all boats. People lifted out of poverty are more fun than the destitute.
No business was taxed 40%, that's a myth. Use effective or marginal tax rate. And while, yes, our taxes were too high, this reduction is way too low. https://taxfoundation.org/cbo-report-compares-us-corporate-tax-g20/
You didn't even read the links.
Metsman why don't you try making more money? If this one extra cart of groceries is such a big deal, just make more money so that you don't have to worry about that? Seems like a simple solution to me.
SD, anyone can afford to go to a community college. You don’t pay back the loans until you are done with school. If you are low income you get Pell grants as well. So yes people who are low income that don’t take advantage of this are lazy. If they want to flip burgers or be a cashier at McDonald’s instead of making real money, then they only have themselves to blame for their situation.
Reasonable what are you talking about... I never said I'm hurting for money. I drive around a $35K 2018 Jeep Wrangler, I think I'm ok. We don't go without. The point is I have more money in my pocket to go to other things like an extra cart of groceries. That is always a good thing.
“No business was taxed 40%, that's a myth. Use effective or marginal tax rate.”
Think about that. For that to be true it means that their advertised tax rate is offset with a series of perks/gifts/lobbyist fruit/ etc that is legalized through tax code.
So what is the real solution to the taxation problem? Eliminate the offsets perhaps? Yes, I’d think so but that means everything in govt needs transparency. Therefore the best way to level the playing field is to address our Congress and change those laws that provide the benefits abused by the rich.
Or we could repeat over and over and over again to raise taxes on the rich so that they pay their “fair share” ;-)
I can't believe the old saws
"it's a tax cut for the rich"
and
"raise taxes on the rich"
is still in the democrat playbook. Altho, they DID just elect that fruitcake (who has repeatedly demonstrated her lack of knowing what's she's talking about) Ocasio-Cortez....
If you want to end up like Venezuela, by all means- elect more of those nutters!
While we do have wage gains, any wage gains currently wiped out by the increasing inflation, the money in your pocket ain't from the economy, it's from tax relief. But wait, there's more.....
Because this Republican-based plan favors Republican-based State and Local tax structures, in NJ, the tax relief not only gigs us more but really sticks it to the uber rich. Go figure, a politically-charged tax reduction.
While NJ families at $60K may save a whopping $600 a year, $250K earners will save $6,200 or ten times the amount. $1.5M NJians will pay +$29,900 more (these are NYC dollars but pretty similar to other Democratic areas)
In Dallas, it will be: $50K/0, $235K/$6,000 and $1.5M/$29K savings
Interesting how the political taxation geographic model fits the two-party plan: https://smartasset.com/taxes/how-the-trump-tax-plan-will-impact-families-in-big-cities
But I do not see NJ being the yuge winner here. Ironic ain't it. Almost defines insidious, don't it.
I think it's select, not elect JR. She holds no office that I know of.
Trump approval 50%, higher than Obama's at the same point in his presidency:
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/trump_administration/prez_track_aug14
SD a family with multiple kids making $60K ends up getting most if not all of their taxes back come tax season. So I don't see what you're trying to say. Sounds like you’re saying anyone who is well off shouldn’t get a tax cut as well which is nonsense. Those people are paying a hell of a lot more in taxes than the lower income family.
Mets, those refunds are peanuts in the grand scheme of things. They exist mostly as a psychological tool because people feel better when they think they are “getting something”, even when they would have been better off not being taxed in the first place.
Besides, if tax-and-refund is the game (it most certainly is), that inherently means that someone has the authority to pick and choose who those winners and losers will be. Surely those running the game will take as much as they can, wouldn’t you agree? In this case it means those in power, the majority of whom are the rich themselves or those who are rewarded by the rich, are doing the picking and choosing.
You know my stance: change the game! Take the power to pick and choose away (aka tax perks, many of which have been shared here by those who’ve masterfully learned how to get). That’s the only real solution to partisan politics imo, to remove the Republicrat incentive for selfishness.
You know I agree with you on the tax thing, JIT, but I don't see it realistically happening. Just one look at how divided the country is these days (which is even more divided than it was under Obama- I think MUCH more), and that says the Republicrat game is STILL WORKING. Unfortunately.
I don't see an answer. Not until after the "fire" anyway, not until after Atlas Shrugs.
I sure hope I'm wrong... I do see more and more people realizing what's been going on... but it's not enough yet, and when it is enough, will it be too little too late? Only time knows...
Holy crap!!!!
"Lawmakers in West Virginia did something Monday night that might be a first in American history: impeach an entire state Supreme Court."
Of course, since it's CNN, they report that the democrats are calling it an evil plan by the republicans.... LOL
"Democrats accuse Republicans of using impeachment as a vehicle to give GOP Gov. Jim Justice a chance to ultimately replace the justices with his appointments, so the timing of Davis' retirement is key."
https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/14/politics/west-virginia-supreme-court-impeach-trnd/index.html
I guess my point JR is that if we ignore the underlying structure - the systems that we use to “get stuff” - that causes the non-stop partisan division then thinking that we will never be divided is naïve. Reap what you sow, right? Thus the reason the more intelligent folks stay out of these threads, I think because they’ve realized the futility in the day-to-day distractions (aka news and politics) and how collectively we will never fix the real problems.
We all just keep fighting each other for pieces of the forcibly-taken money pie lol.
"the futility in the day-to-day distractions (aka news and politics) and how collectively we will never fix the real problems.
We all just keep fighting each other for pieces of the forcibly-taken money pie lol."
Or the perceived "rights pie" (I'm taking your right to X away because my right to Y is more important.)
But really, at this point, I do think it's all about "winning"- "my side must win at all costs"- I've already seen certain information sources saying "if the democrats take control of Congress in 2018, it's the end for America".... and vice-versa. Between the willful ignorance (keeping confirmation bias), fear-mongering, and perceived threat (to someone personally, or society as a whole), the division seems to be the largest it's been since the 60s.
I do think more people are waking up all the time, I seriously think that's how Trump managed to get elected. Electoral college votes (landslide) or not, it was a very close race. Will it stick? IDK....
Mets, I'm not saying anything really; the numbers are. "SD a family with multiple kids making $60K ends up getting most if not all of their taxes back come tax season." --- Not sure where you saw this, since no one is getting all of their taxes back...…
What the numbers seem to say is that the Trump tax plan favors the rich EXCEPT in places where state and local taxes are high where under the Trump plan, the rich actually pay more, a lot more, than in the past. The numbers also say this taxing situation is more likely in affluent, urban, Democratic states as if the "designers' used a map to determine a tax policy that hurts liberals more than conservatives.
That's just a beautifully insidious political thing. It also makes the "but the rich still pay more" argument moot. In some places, the rich pay far less than they used to while the middle pay a little less. That's not fair either.
So most people in the middle get some pennies, a lot of the rich get a huge Christmas gift in dollars, except in certain liberal geographies where the rich get really whacked, and whacked big time. I mean if you thought rich people fled NJ because of high property taxes, what do you think with happen to those making $1.5M when they get whacked with an extra $30K a year in Federal taxes because they live in NJ...…. Or, vice-versa, when they figure out they can save $30K by moving to PA....
The thought that this plan favors the Trump base does not seem to bear fruit when looking at the numbers. It seems, go figure, to be a lie. The plan, which also forgives inheritance tax, will also net the Trump family $3B in inheritance tax rebates based on his $10B worth. That's a yuge payday covering his investment in the campaign 100 times over. A good profit for the King.
“If, and when, Trump derangement syndrome is put in the dictionary, there will be a photo of Maxine Waters next to that definition” -Tomi Lahren
https://twitter.com/foxandfriends/status/1029686016226021376
CIA Director Brennan’s Security clearance revoked. Deemed by Trump as erratic. Finally, a decision based on experiencre of the suvject.
Update; there are still nukes in.North Korea and little kids in ac tents in Texas. Paul Manafort avoids the stand; Donald Trump avoids Mueller. Can’t take the heat of being under oath. Big men.
And in other news:
Trump pulls security clearance of ex-CIA Director John Brennan
‘Mr. Brennan’s lying and recent conduct characterized by increasingly frenzied commentary is wholly inconsistent with access to the nation’s most closely held secrets and facilities.’
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/08/15/trump-pulls-security-clearance-of-ex-cia-director-brennan-778791
SD - "I lost mine the exact same way."
Lost what? Your top secret security clearance? You must be joking.
With all the lying and collusion by the top leaders of the Obama administration, the question can now be openly asked and investigated: What did Obama know and when did he know it?
There is no way that Obama's administration clown car car of political hacks and sycophants did all of that on their own without clear direction and coordination straight from the White house.
SD, you keep repeating yourself....it's sooooooooo old dude.....
True fact.. I just searched "there are still nukes" on this web page....you have said it 7 times....same exact line...probably more if I include different variations. REPEAT, REPEAT, REPEAT......over and over again....
Mind you, I don't doubt it for a second, but get ahold of yourself man, the repetition is not needed.
We're talking with you and to you as well 4cat. Are you enjoying your extended stay here? Is there anything you require? (besides blind loyalty and complete acceptance of your all too typical Democrat/liberal/MSM talking points?)
I am so sorry Darrin; I thought the tread was on North Korea with the President telling us there are no nukes on the Peninsula thanks to his fantastic bonding with Kim Jong Un.
Now they appear to be building new missiles, big ones, and so I think it's important to check the status. Apparently John Bolton agrees when yesterday he told the President's News Channel, Fox, that they have “not taken the steps we feel are necessary to denuclearize,” and that “what we need is performance from North Korea on denuclearization.”
One of the thing Bolton is recommending is bolstering South Korea's missiles which sounds like more arms not less on the Peninsula. Meanwhile we will pursue sanctions, chasing the money, and leveraging China/Russia against NK. Since Russia provided the missile tech, results could be patchy. Just like the policy of proceeding Presidents.
Does that mean the meeting was a total bust? A failure with lies?
We did get 55 boxes of possible remains, one dog tag. It will take weeks to find out how many, if American, and possible matches. That's good news.
There are 7,700 Americans still missing from that War.
Meanwhile:
"A state review into the treatment of immigrant teens held at a Virginia detention center confirmed the facility uses restraint techniques that can include strapping children to chairs and placing mesh bags over their heads." Associated Press https://www.voanews.com/a/probe-says-treatment-of-latino-teens-not-abuse/4526652.html
"They were separated for almost four months. Although they crossed the border at a legal point of entry, Capi and his 12-year-old daughter Jamie were separated." https://www.voanews.com/a/asylum-seekers-find-following-rules-holds-no-assurances/4523566.html
As of August, the Administration has not updated the status on the kids stressing the fact that no news is good news.
"TDS is a real condition. I have lots of friends I call Patriots. Some may call us, them other names, but at the end of the day, we all love this country, and yet many lie in the shadows, afraid to come out. That time is past because of people like the one in the picture. We now see the lawless and the deranged attacking our rights in other ways under this president to the point where they know they are trying a soft coup.
Wake up, things are getting ugly."
Well, we are in agreement on the ugly...….GreyHawk apparently has not realized that his lots o' friends, Patriots, own the Presidency, the House, the Senate, 33 Governors, 32 State Legislatures.... Soft coup? That's what you did, you just can't close the deal...
You really need to up your creativity game.
Take TDS, your new rallying brand for liberals. "Hey, it's a disease, it's real, it's not name calling." Yeah, and a dog is just God spelled backwards so it's a reverse compliment.
And if we lower the mileage requirement we can create cheap cars that no one will be able to afford to drive so we can save more lives on the highway.....
Trump Derangement Syndrome is just Bush Derangement Syndrome rebranded. TDS, as a term, was stolen from the Bush era BDS. Apparently wasn't funny enough to be remembered.... Not a creative clue amongst the lot of you.
As much as folks want to believe it’s a real disease, it is not. Like your King, you can’t even be original in your labelling of dissidents. Just like when you couldn’t come up with a campaign theme, you copied Ron Reagan to get MAGA. Now you copy and re-engineer a cute little made-up sound-bite Bush-era “disease” to brand name anyone disenchanted with the current administration. Then you fire them, you vilify them from the bully pulpit, you take away their security clearance. What's next is only limited by what you can get away with; obviously the will to demean, to dehumanize, is there ---- all the way to the top, your shiningly light
Like “snowflake,” Euro-socialist, or crybaby, TDS is just a name used to make someone feel bigger when they lose it and can’t discuss issues based on the facts. IMO, it’s a deplorable thing when people feel obligated to act in this fashion.
SD he never said there were no nukes, but that NK was moving towards disarmament. Obviously NK lied. You just love spinning stuff to fit your narrative.
SD you’re the poster child for TDS. I can’t wait to see what you have to say when the Russia investigation is over and they got zero on Trump.
And what happens if Mueller finds evidence worthy of impeachment? Are you going to be a patriot or are you just going to follow your tribe?
You know if the shoe fits . . . . . It is what it is . . . . reality can be tough to come to grips with.
With all the deep state collusion by the Obama's administrations hand picked appointees, (Brennan, Clapper, Rice, Lynch, Ohrr and more) working hand and hand with a corrupted investigation managed by the top levels of the FBI and elements of Hillary Clinton campaign to interfere with the 2016 election, the question is -
What did Obama know and when did he know it?
Goeagles if there was evidence they'd have it by now. What are they waiting for? The Manafort trial has nothing to do with Russia. If they had a paper trail leading to Trump then why aren't they presenting their case? They've had plenty of time. Show congress what they have and let them decide. They're just dragging this along to influence the elections this year. Then they'll come out with nothing. It's a joke...
Goeagles: intelligent people will follow rule of law and be patriot if there is any impeachable admissable evidences given by Mueller.
“And what happens if Mueller finds evidence worthy of impeachment?”
Lol whose “evidence”?
The environment we are in allows anyone and everyone to create their own circumstantial evidence. For instance, some here would conclude guilt if Trump was friends with the nephew of an immigrant from England whose parents had once climbed over the Berlin Wall and travelled to Russia to take pictures of the Kremlin.
That’s the problem in a nut (pun intended) shell: so many have jumped the gun for political reasons and made obviously outlandish claims without any direct evidence at all that *any* additional circumstantial evidence brought forth at this time would be easily dismissed. IOW, the current crazed environment created by the political nutcases has practically ensured that any further “evidence” will be questioned as yet another political gambit.
Direct evidence is probably the only thing that would suffice at this point.
Oh my god none of you can even say that, hypothetically, if impeachment worthy evidence came out that you would stop supporting Trump? Is this so that no matter what comes out, you can still maintain your witch hunt dialogue?
Reasonable, I can’t speak for the others but I’m NOT a Trump supporter. Rather, I’m an anti-Republicrat who can’t stand political BS from any side. If the left weren’t so completely off-the-rails and the MSM wasn’t so anti-anything-conservative I’d be probably vocal about the idiotic things trump is doing too (unrestrained spending and debt creation for instance).
Reasonable if the cards they show are worthy of impeachment then sure people would support impeachment. Bill Clinton committed perjury and was saved by the Senate. That's a crime but he still finished his 2nd term. Obama is on tape offering things to a Russian diplomat during the 2012 election. I don't think that's a crime but if Trump did it, you know they'd go after him for it. Hillary used a personal server to send classified info, yet a navy sailor went to prison just for sending a picture of his quarters to someone. She also tried to destroy evidence that was requested. She committed crimes. They ruined that sailors life over something petty and you're gonna tell me Hillary wasn't guilty of anything? Then you get to Trump. What exactly did he do? We've been hearing it for 2 years now even before Mueller was put in charge of the investigation. In 2 years they have no direct evidence? Sounds like all they can hope for is that Manafort will turn on Trump and make crap up to save his own hide. Even then it's hearsay. If you don't have direct evidence, a paper trail, then there is no evidence of a crime.
Metsman/justintime,
Nobody knows what Mueller has so your speculation is unfounded. If damning evidence is revealed, we will see where you stand.
TheYale,
Trump's cult of personality and tribalism are pretty powerful. I have my doubts.
Don't tell us that. SD is the one convinced of guilt. When I see actual evidence I'll make my conclusion then.
"Rather, I’m an anti-Republicrat who can’t stand political BS from any side. If the left weren’t so completely off-the-rails and the MSM wasn’t so anti-anything-conservative I’d be probably vocal about the idiotic things trump is doing too (unrestrained spending and debt creation for instance)."
+1000 I could've written this myself.
"Nobody knows what Mueller has so your speculation is unfounded. "
Pot meet kettle.
"SD is the one convinced of guilt." I don't think I said that. I have said I don't think we will ever find him guilty; although that's light years away from innocent. But I have said there's a lot of weird stuff going on here that IMO Mueller should feel free to investigate until he thinks he knows the truth.
Remember, you started by not asking for the facts of Trump's taxes; the buck started right there. Weird that folks just didn't care. Especially given where all the money came from. Russia.
The second buck stopped at the Republican platform when Trump scaled back anything Russian to be neutered on Russia. Good for Russia, was it good for anyone else?
What I do know is in the public record. I am not guessing, it's in plain view:
- The Trump Business is built on a foundation of Russian investment; much of this money could be laundered. There are many, too many, cash deals.
- The Trump Business orbit is filled with Russians, financiers, partners, customers
- Russia is US unfriendly, they are not friendly, they are an adversary state, they are a criminal state the economic size of Italy and not due one iota extra piece of attention over that, if not considerably less. They are not even our competitors and of no value whatsoever as a partner. What's to buddy up about?
- The Trump campaign was full of people with financial interests with Russia; many careers built on Russian investment.
- The Trump campaign frequently reached out to the Russians for campaign intelligence from a foreign adversary and to set up backchannel communications to avoid US intelligence. One is illegal and the other very, very strange.
- Two meetings were held with the highest levels of the Trump campaign expressly to get stolen information on Hillary Clinton. First Trump knew of no meetings, then the meetings were about adoptions, now they happened, they were about collusion, but Trump himself, "to the best of his recollection," did not know (sounds like Trump is getting swampy legal now...."
- Trump publicly asked the Russians to hack Hillary for the 30K emails and they started immediately.
- Trump fired Comey, took Brennan's Clearance away because of the Russian investigation. He regularly issues twitter requests to stop the investigation. He regularly demeans and degrade all who work on the investigation. Message received: if you work on the investigation, your career will be modified.
- Russian oligarchs made up a disproportionate number of foreign attendees of Trump's inauguration.
- The Trump administration is full of people with financial interests with Russia; many careers built on Russian investment.
- Starting with the lessening of Russian planks in the Republican platform weirdness, there have been a number of Trump actions regarding Russia that just don't make sense including taking absolutely no action to protect against current and future Russian meddling. Most critical is Trump's denial of Russian meddling and inaction based on such meddling.
While the goal of the investigation is American complicity in Russian election involvement, the investigation can pursue all crimes uncovered. The investigation has over 30 indictments, a few guilty pleas, a couple in jail, yada, yada. A number of side investigations have dovetails: Cohen, Stormy, Omarosa, Trump Foundation Fraud, yada, yada. Some of these have campaign financing violation possibilities.
The Manafort trial was never about Russian complicity. But it did turn up some pay to play illegalities at the highest levels of the Trump administration and we did find some of the embezzled Trump inauguration funding.
If Trump continues to wimp on the interview and he is subpoenaed, that will add 6 months, minimum. If this goes the length of Benghazi, or Clinton Impeachment, buckle up buttercup, you're gonna need a bigger boat.;
I say it's over when it's over.
Stymie "Nobody knows what Mueller has so your speculation is unfounded.
Pot meet kettle."
JR,
Metsman is claiming that Mueller is dragging his feet in order to influence the midterms. What speculation did I make????? READING COMPREHENSION!!!!!!
“McGraven is my hero”
Did you mean (Ray) McGovern?
https://consortiumnews.com/2017/07/24/intel-vets-challenge-russia-hack-evidence/
GoEagles,
My point was, since NOBODY "knows what Mueller has", the people saying "impeach him!" have no more basis for their opinion than those saying "no evidence"...
With the small exception of there IS NO evidence yet, to impeach. No one knows anything, yet we've got 1700 posts on it. It's laughable.
If evidence actually arises, there will be an impeachment, congress won't be able to NOT impeach, I think. But until such evidence is actually presented, nobody's got nothing and it's all wishful thinking, identity politics, he said she said, and my political party is better than your political party.
In other words, same ol' sh1t and much ado about nothing.
Find the blue dress, catch him perjuring himself to congress, and then you'll have something.
Oh look Stymie crawled out of his hole....
SD you're a nut... So Trump only has money because of Russia? LMAO...
Stymie probably spent the summer catching up with old friends, Spanky, Alfalfa, Darla, Buckwheat and Petey, lol.
Actually, McRaven, William H. McRaven is my hero.
No basis for my opinion? My "opinion" is based on the FACTS that Trump's business is built on Russian investment, purchases, and partnerships --- that's a fact. Trump's campaign was loaded with Russian sympathizers, many requests, many meetings on getting information on his competitor from a foreign adversary, doesn't' matter if stolen or not, many meetings to set up communications backchannels with the intent to avoid national security agencies --- that's a fact. And Trump's administration is also loaded with Russian sympathizers, many totally inexperienced in either life, the jobs they have, or both --- that's a fact. And the bottom line is Trump's administration have taken a number of strange actions and inactions, all favoring Russia ---- that's a fact.
And all of these facts paint a very strange picture and a picture that has already turned up a lot of illegal acts. To me, that says continue the investigation and see what crimes it might uncover, especially if any American conspired with the Russians before, during or after the election.
We know Trump and Company had many dealings with Russia, mostly getting investment loans and the like, over the years. Their "opportunity" window is much larger than say, Mike Pence from middle America.
"My point was, since NOBODY "knows what Mueller has", the people saying "impeach him!" have no more basis for their opinion than those saying "no evidence"..."
I think I do have a tad more basis for my opinion. uh......indictments of 32 people plus 3 companies. We have smoke, we have criminality. Team Trump abounds in criminality. Trump hires a lot of bad people, criminals, Russian sympathizers and the like.
Of the 32 indictments, that's 4 Trump advisers, 26 Russians, 3 companies - all Russian, 1 CA guy, 1 British lawyer. That's a lot of Russians; that's a lot of Americans.
5 guilty pleas, 3 are Trump aides), and one case in deliberation right now, probably guilty. Why take a plea unless you are protecting yourself against something worse?
You would be right to say, "look Ma, no Russia," to which I would add ---- how many of these guilty pleas are because of Russia? Time will tell as most have turned state's evidence to avoid a bigger hammer coming down on them. I think that tips the scale a bit in the area of -----beyond something fishy, instead, something smells like decay in this swamp.
You famously say "Find the blue dress, catch him perjuring himself to congress, and then you'll have something" while noting the Senate left the guy off for lying about a girl.... And I am sorry --- how long was that investigation and was it about a dress? Doing a Clinton sperm count? I actually forget --- what was it about? Russians maybe?
At least Clinton had the balls to speak on the record. Your guy is too feeble, too scared, to even talk to Mueller. He can only talk to the Press, you know, the enemy of the people is also my friend. Hypocrite. Talks a big game but can't step into the ring like a man. Foolyani says it's to avoid "the perjury trap. Plain-speaking people call it a lie. Easy to avoid the perjury trap. Just tell the truth. But Mr. Big Balls is too chicken scat to speak on the record. Is he afraid of the truth or is he afraid of his ability to speak the truth? That's not smoke, that's a yellow streak a mile long.
So keep defending this petulant petty President as he hides the truth, fears stepping into the arena, and instead lashes out against all naysayers with whatever tools he can deploy to disparage, demean, and dehumanize dissenters. No wonder he envies Putin and Un. Role models for handling dissent.
Amarosa, Amarosa, men have named you
You're so like the lady with the reality TV smile
Is it only 'cause you're lonely they have blamed you?
For that apprentice strangeness in your smile?
Another rat leaving jumping ship. This one has tapes. Good times!
"Of the 32 indictments, that's 4 Trump advisers, 26 Russians, 3 companies - all Russian, 1 CA guy, 1 British lawyer. That's a lot of Russians; that's a lot of Americans. "
And none of them are Donald Trump.
When they actually indict TRUMP, then maybe you'll have something. If they don't do it before the november elections, that means they have nothing. So talk to me in October. Until then, you're just playing "crime mystery novelist." Having fun?
SD give it a rest... You sound like a writer for the National Enquirer... Next you'll say Trump is the spawn of aliens from Melmac...
There are published FACTS on all of that you chose to ignore. Ignore if you must, but have the courage to say you are ignoring the facts versus the continuous personal attacks you spew instead.
I mean you probably believe Trump's "Manafort is a very good man...…" mantra that he just now puked out on the eve of legally determining that Manafort is actually a very, very bad man.
It's just weird that you, in your zeal to win over Hillary, overlooked Trump's dark side of investments, partnerships, his weak-tea team -- friends and family, and now -- Presidential actions favoring Russia for some unknown reason.
I mean the Lara Trump tape is the latest example of how these Mafiosi managers handle business. And who the hell is Lara Trump but a former American television host, television producer, campaign advisor, and now Trump Fixer Whisperer. How the hell does Eric Trump's Melanoma-Look-Alike wife get to handle White House business? But no worries by the Metsman, he just goes along to git along.
Hush monies, pay-offs, cheating, fraud, surreptitious taping, pay-for-play schemes, demonization, dehumanization, petty revenge schemes, charity fraud, inauguration funds embezzlement, Russianspy/sex/NRA/Republicans, and much, much more already surround this President and yet you cry: "SD give it a rest... You sound like a writer for the National Enquirer..."
The National Enquirer is way too high a bar to set for this guy. You gotta get down in the gutter to find the appropriate rags to describe him.
“My "opinion" is based on the FACTS”
“My "opinion" is based on KEVIN BACON FACTS”
Fixed it for ya SD :-)
Time will tell about conspiracy; hopefully he will leave and save the office and you will be left with your pet names, personal attack's, witticisms and fealty to your King
But the facts I have presented as to his finances, company, companions, minons, and actions can’t be erased by snideness alone
You’ll need to do better than that.
SD what has Trump done that favors Russia... I'm confused.... He put sanctions in place! The only thing he did was have a pow wow with Russia that amounted to nothing. You spew out fiction all the time. Tell us specifically what he did for Russia to their benefit. His businesses are not what they are because of Russia. That is hilarious that you would even think that. And I'm sure he has made money from doing business with Russia, but so has Apple and Microsoft and every other company that has a product to sell. He's a builder so of course he's going to have buildings all over the world. That is not illegal and hilarious that you would think that. How about you wait till something newsworthy is out about the Russia investigation before you post about it, because at this point you have NOTHING!
I don’t trust Omarosa she killed the dude from Green Mile
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/2064169
This is right up your slimy alley SD
"This is right up your slimy alley SD" I don't have a clue what you mean and that's OK by me :>) Suze, I would recommend you just skip my posts.
"SD what has Trump done that favors Russia... I'm confused.... He put sanctions in place!" Trump has discounted Russian meddling for how long? Does he actually agree there was meddling today? Does he ever say he agrees without caveats? How many Trumpers agree there was no meddling? How many blame Hillary? How many blame the FBI, CIA, and Deep State? The bully pulpit matters.
That's a lot of it: the bully pulpit matters and Trump's pulpit is Russia friendly; just about the only world leader he hasn't slammed. The Congress is also full of Russian hawks who may hate Hillary but hate Vlad more. So when Trump takes arms to Ukraine out of his platform, the Congress puts it back. And because he has the bully pulpit, once they put it back, other countries hear Trump's call and begin to sell arms to Ukraine too. When Trump drags his feet on new/Obama sanctions, Congress veto-proofs the vote. But when Trump disowns NATO, EU, trade agreements, environmental agreements, Putin wins. These are all actions Trump has taken which help Russia while others take the actions pushing back on Russia.
"Tell us specifically what he did for Russia to their benefit." It's all noted, linked above Mets. Starting with the Republican party platform that was magically neutered in a pro-Russian fashion which was just a weird signal. Republicans softening on Russia --- go figure.
Early in his campaign when Russian spy Martina Butina asked him about lifting sanctions, he said: "I don’t think you’d need the sanctions.”
Trump just said: ""If we could develop a relationship which is good for Russia, good for us, good for everybody, that would be great." Does that make sense to you? Why would it be anything for us, much less good? Russia does not count anymore. They are a despot-run, tiny economic power, one step above Trump's shzthole countries. A fly-spec deserving of far less attention that we spend on the EU where apparently we word-carpet bomb, tariff, break agreements with and generally disdain --- Trump administratively speaking that is.
In May 2017, he invited the Russians to the oval office where he uncovered our Israeli mole sharing classified info with the Russians. We found out about the meeting from TASS, American journalists were not permitted. Is that strange?
The Russian sanctions were imposed by Congress, they were Obama's, and they had a veto-proof majority. Trump delayed signature past the schedule date calling it bogus because it overrode his "authority." Most of what he has done to be tough on Russia is to not be able to tear down Obama's moves in that area. It's like Obama's negative on Russia can't be negated by Trump so he claims Russian-tough victory. Lots of double negatives......
Trump has given Putin a free hand in Syria. Sure, we lobbed a few missiles their way, probably called first, but basically give them free reign as Trump says Assad's destruction of Syrians is a blow against ISIS. They aren't fighting ISIS, they are fighting Assad's civil war (and we are not on Assad's side).
He calls Putin his "stablemate."
He recommended Russia to rejoin the G-7 which, economically, just doesn't make sense; they are a non starter economically to sit at the table. They virtually have no economy, just a small number of rich oligarchs enslaving the people. Their expulsion was because of Crimea, which, if I remember, has not changed. This just doesn't make mathematical sense --- they are too tiny to belong in that group.
Trump congratulated Putin on his re-election victory in a crooked rigged election. That's weird.
Trump went ballistic when we deported 60 Russian diplomats/spies, more than the EU countries, when he thought we would have equal numbers over Putin's poisoning plan. They did, on an EU level. Trump was adamant that the US did not want to lead here.
After Nikki Halley announced more sanction over Putin's support of Assad's chemical weapons use, she was shut down the next day.
Trump told G7 leaders that Crimea belongs to Russia because they speak Russian.
Out of space, the rest is above.
Thank you JIT. It gets easier when people ask you to repeat yourself. Like…..
“His businesses are not what they are because of Russia.” Uh….yes they are.
“And I'm sure he has made money from doing business with Russia, but so has Apple and Microsoft and every other company that has a product to sell.” Oh no, you are talking business, I am talking investment. Trump’s empire is built on Russian investment as in, “they own him,” or at least a yuge piece of him. That’s different than selling some iPhones, Software, Trump water, steaks, or MAGA hats. Investment is the bedrock of a company’s assets; customer purchases are revenues. Without purchases, you can not maintain a company. Without investment, you can’t have a company. At least, Trump sized.
I do agree that Trump has sold some stuff, condo’s and the like, to Russians. And some of that is pretty darned funky too. I mean it’s a lot of Russians. Matter of fact, I think like 3 ½ floors of Trump Tower is Russian; find another building in the US with those stats at those prices. When you sell a $45M mansion to a Russian for $90M; I say even some Russian sales seem very, very suspect. Over 60 Russians paid Trump $100M for Trump FL properties; the neighbors call it Little Moscow.
“He's a builder so of course he's going to have buildings all over the world. That is not illegal and hilarious that you would think that.” I don’t think that and have never said that; sorry to cause you a fake laugh :>) What I said is Trump SoHo – Russian funding. Trump Toronto – Russian funding. Trump’s bank, fined $630M for laundering $10B in Russian money. Trump’s finance shop--- Bayrock --- Russian criminals. To find listings and links of these strange occurrences, try “find on page” soho” and the other financial ties should be there, dates, links, the works. It’s in timeline, list form……. There’s lots more, but that should suffice.
The difference here from a normal company business interaction in Russia is that here, with Trump, a guy, a bankrupt guy in the 80’s, walks into a bar, meets Manafort, sees a Russian, and for the next three decades, builds a $10B empire from scratch, much of it on cash deals, all primarily funded by a Russian-money-laundering bank, a Russian criminal investment house and a series of Russian partnerships.
In 2013, Eric Trump said the golf course were 100% Russian investment. 100%, Eric Trump, golf courses, on the record, google it.
Go farther in and deeper down ---- look at the golf course market and ask yourself --- what prudent investor, looking primarily for profit --- would even ever invest in a golf course? It’s a market that does not attract the typical investor, it attracts those looking for show piece investments like tee times or to siderail some cash while it comes clean for taxation or other purposes. For profit, it’s a suck market. Then you see why people invest and it gets more interesting. And then look at the financial model and you will see where real estate is a bastion for money cleansing, cash deals are the prime hunting grounds for laundering, and Trump’s golf course empire is all of that ---- potentially – with Russian rubles on top. Just saying, and yes, that’s in a conspiratorial, tin-foil hat area. But if it fits…
“You Can Always Get a Tee Time, but Turning a Profit Can Be Tricky"
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/04/your-money/owning-a-golf-course.html
When you look at the golf course industry, look at known Russian investment inot Trump Company, look at all those Russian investment dollars coming into Trump Company, and you tell me his empire is not based on Russian rubles. As to quid pro quo, access, or pro-Russian actions, you look at what Trump has done, is still doing, and you be the judge. I can prove the investment; I can prove the actions, but each of us has to determine: innocence, guilt or worthy of further investigation because it sure smells hinky. I say it smells, keep looking.
SD you sure come up with a lot of conspiracy theories... you have too much time on your hands. Russian meddling didn’t decide this election... it just didn’t. Hillary had no message and ignored the Midwest states.
Who said Russian meddling won the election? But the fact is that no one really knows the effect; heck, some don't even think it happened..... Hillary lost for many reasons; I am sure that the Russian meddling did not help her cause, I am sure it was not neutral either.
Conspiracy?
Again, the facts in the public domain show:
- Donald J. Trump's business have an inordinate amount of Russian financings. This money is suspect in that criminals abound in his investment company, his bank is guilty of Russian money laundering, and there are too many cash deals
- Donald J. Trump is in partnership with the Russians on a number of the Towers
- Eric Trump has stated that the gold courses are 100% Russian financed.
- Donald J. Trump's business sells a lot of high end real estate to Russians, some time at exorbitant profit levels.
- Donald J. Trump's campaign reached out many times, many meetings, to gain information on a competitor from a foreign adversary
- Donald J. Trump's; campaign had a lot of people, at the highest levels, with financial beholding, at least, to Russia
- Donald J. Trump's campaign reached out many times, many meetings, to create Russian backchannels to avoid US National Security from "eavesdropping."
- Donald J. Trump's administration has a lot of people, at the highest levels, with financial beholding, at least, to Russia.
- Donald J. Trump has said only favorable things about Russia, terrible things about our allies, and has taken a number of strange actions that are favorable to Russia.
These are listed above, they are from the public record, and there is no conjecture, no conspiracy theory in that; just my opinion that Mueller has a reason to continue the investigation. I think the only "conspiracy theory" in all this I noted as such. So between that and your meddling comment, not sure what you are up to or why you even bother asking for facts since your conclusion appears forgone. At least you didn't say "it's a witch-hunt."
Conspiracy only in the sense that you are using your facts to paint a picture of our President that, as of today, is quite misleading.
Perhaps calumny is the correct word rather than conspiracy???
FYI: The words Russia/Russian used almost 700 times, Trump 1340 times, in a thread about North Korea/Immigration probably lends more credence to the calumny comment than anything else ;-)
Calumny? Really ---- like I can damage this guy's reputation? I mean what part of his sterling reputation to you think I am unfairly attacking? What false accusations can you pinpoint?
Would that be the "I’m NOT a Trump supporter" aspect of my writing? No, I don't make that cop out to CYA for the inevitable.
Or is it your head in the sand using logic to sterilize reality by diminishing your ability to put two and two together?
When you are ready to discuss the facts, I am here for you. But continuing to just attack me, the person, is not becoming.
"heck, some don't even think it happened....."
...because there's no CONCLUSIVE evidence that it did.
"Hillary lost for many reasons; I am sure that the Russian meddling did not help her cause, I am sure it was not neutral either. "
Well that makes one of you. If there were conclusive evidence making people SURE Russian meddling changed the outcome of the election, you better believe it would have been all over the MSM a long time ago, and the election results would be officially called into question (they have not yet- it's been nothing but supposition and wishful thinking... as JIT satirically pointed out, "the 7 degrees of Kevin Bacon."
Where is the line for obstruction or being an autocracy?
If you are a private citizen, have security clearance, and speak out against Trump, you can lose your clearance.
If you are in service to the government, and you, or your wife, speak out against Trump, you will be put on an enemies list for possible loss of security clearance and therefore, lose your job.
If you work on the Russian investigation, you can be fired for that.
Must be tough to work in National Security and speak the truth.
Imagine this: now, basically, the US no longer has access to the knowledge and experience of these American patriots. They are untouchable. Our best Russian investigator, the management for decades of National Security, all gone. Imagine that Brennan met with "Tito" 5 times and now Pompeo needs to meet with Tito. Sorry, Mike, you can't even call John to ask him what he knows about the guy. Brennan is off limits.
So when the President attacks a private citizen for free speech, what do you call that? Legal, sure. Appropriate --- never. Distasteful --- always. Chicken-shut wimp -- absolpossitively.
Where is obstruction of justice? Is it when:
- you continually attack individuals working the investigation?
- you fire the guy investigating you?
- you fire a guy investigating you for "locker room" talk
- you attempt to stifle people by removing security clearances for speaking out against you
- you issue a misleading statement about the collusion meeting in Trump Tower not having the objective to get information about a competitor from a foreign adversary.
- you tweet to the DOJ Attorney General to shut down the investigation --- NOW.
- you ask the FBI Director to let Flynn off the hook after you know he is lying to the FBI and therefore guilty.
- you write that you are fighting back against the investigation. What is fighting back if not obstruction.....
What is happening here? Is this normal, business as usual, tit for tat OR Constitutional Crisis? Are we there yet?
"Again, the facts in the public domain show"
More personal words backed by zero credible sources.........all garbage
Ever fill out an SF-86?
the Supreme Court has held that security clearance determinations are entirely within the discretion of the Executive Branch
https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/484/518/
Any political expression in the federal workplace is a Hatch Act violation - looking at you Strok (a go fund me? Really?)
It was a clinton EO that codified this stuff
https://fas.org/sgp/clinton/eo12968.html
McCabe has the IG report. Comey improperly released information to his friend at Columbia; Clapper lied to Congress
Brennan and Hayden lost theirs for GP - (they could have just said the info is compartmantslized or they no longer have a need to know) which Trump absolutely has the power to do, however, a pretty good case could be made for attempt to overthrow the government (Q29) as Brennan was / is a communist supporter.
What this does do is prevent them from gaining work as a contractor with access to classified info - I don’t think any of them care - long story short of anyone who holds or has held clearances pulled that stuff they would be in much worse trouble.
Believe me SD I do skip your insane rants but what I meant was that the link I posted was most likely tabloid fodder like most of the garbage you post.
It’s clear to see you are beyond TDS and are just completely insane.
"More personal words backed by zero credible sources.........all garbage" Personal words --- what is that? Is that in juxtaposition to your impersonal retorts? Zero credible sources --- well, if you think that, you got me there, can't pull anything on you. Why do you continue reading if that's your conclusion. Matter of fact, why do you read anything?
"Ever fill out an SF-86?" I went to the Jared Kushner Night School on how to do that :>) You know, fail five times and keep your job.....
Strzok was not fired for Hatch Act violation. He did not violate the Hatch Act. The FBI OPR division in charge of discipline did not recommend firing; the Deputy Director overrode that for undetermined reasons.
Strzok's crime was basically "locker room trash talk, pillow talk" to his lover. Two lovers, tweeting. Nothing more. If there was more, he could have brought Trump down pretty easily given the info he had at the time. There were no actions taken to back up his boasts to his lover. No one has proof to the contrary and plenty of confirmation that he's clean on that.
Perhaps a flawed individual, certainly should have known better given his business, he was also our best investigator against foreign adversaries, especially the Russians. You are in fine company if you applaud this: Putin is very, very, happy too.
As for Brennan, what's GP? I know Trump and PG, but not GP. And "a pretty good case could be made for attempt to overthrow the government (Q29) as Brennan was / is a communist supporter. " "is" is a lie and you know that. "Was" is true as in a single instance, a single vote in 1976 while attending University. Yes, he voted for a member of the Communist Party - USA, instead of Jimmy Carter or Gerald, pardoning Nixon, Ford.
I'm sorry..... Melania was raised as a Communist; her father is a Communist Party member, and you gave them citizenship and a room in the Whitehouse..... You say I am convicting on conjecture and lack of evidence ----
And yet you throw the Hatch Act and Treason as the reason for stripping folks of jobs and clearances based on this evidence? The guy cast a protest ballot in 1976 and you want the noose because you say he was/is a Communist supporter?
I think if you use the same gauge to measure your King, he will come up far short of Mr. Brennan or Mr. Strzok.
But I applaud the use of facts to attempt to prove your ascertains. I think we agree, and I said, these acts are legal. My question is are they appropriate in order to protect the US and it's institutions OR are they just the petty ploy of a petulant President with a penchant for revenge over free speech he does not like.
The clearance stripping is purely a puerile passion for revenge. It does not comply to any of the 13 guidelines for revocation. Trump himself gave his reason, in writing, saying: "I think that whole -- I call it the rigged witch hunt -- is a sham. And these people led it! So I think it's something that had to be done." He did it because of the Russian investigation.
Later, the Whitehouse re-wrote Trump to say he said: ""Mr. Brennan's lying and recent conduct characterized by increasingly frenzied commentary is wholly inconsistent with access to the nation's most closely held secrets and facilities, the very aim of our adversaries which is to sow division and chaos."
I am sorry, but is that the President being PC to avoid saying: "he said stuff I don't like and therefore he can't know any state secrets?"
One step closer to the autocracy.
“Strzok was not fired for Hatch Act violation. He did not violate the Hatch Act. The FBI OPR division in charge of discipline did not recommend firing; the Deputy Director overrode that for undetermined reasons.“ - nobody said that you’re interjexting your personal conjecture.
As stated above - the executive branch can pull a clearance for any reason or none at all. Seeing as a clearance is necessary pursuant to the requirements of the position - they didn’t even need to fire him and in fact probably puts him in a better position since he can now sue. (Well the FAA or FLEOA can assist - not sure who controls collective bargaining for senior staff) I personally think Trump should have dropped him to the lowest non appointed level 1811 and sent him to investigate snow in the arctic circle, thereby preventing a job action suit - again totally within his purview - but you know that.
Your thoughts above above about his reasons for termination are once again conjecture.
The clearance process falls entirely within Trumps wheelhouse as codified by a Clinto EO. Those guidelines are for clearance adjudication by agencies - the president or his designee can at any time for any or no reason grant or pull a clearance. You also know that.
I have agreed three times; its legal. Legal and appropriate are two different things.
In the case of Strzok, sure, demote, he did a stupid thing in a stupid way. But how do you support his language requiring firing when the foulmouth liar in chief has your full support is beyond me.
In the case of Brennan, it may be legal, but it neither complies to the spirit or meaning of the guidelines. It is a petty personal matter.
These are the Kingly acts of an autocrat. This is not justice; its revenge
I don’t support the firing - I think it creates undue liability on the part of the federal government.
Brennan is no longer employed and as I stated above should have been reduced to ‘need to know’ which would have had the same result.
GP=general purpose - ergo because I feel like it
As far as communism - look at question 29 on an SF-86. Getting citizenship and sleeping in the White House does not give them access to sensitive compartmentalized information.
Big difference.
https://www.opm.gov/forms/pdf_fill/sf86-non508.pdf
“The Hatch Act, a federal law passed in 1939, limits certain political activities of federal employees (except members of the Armed Forces), as well as some state, D.C., and local government employees who work in connection with federally funded programs. The law’s purposes are to ensure that federal programs are administered in a nonpartisan fashion, to protect federal employees from political coercion in the workplace, and to ensure that federal employees are advanced based on merit and not based on political affiliation”
Sorry - the actors in question were partisan in their administration of their offices / actions. That’s a violation. Regardless if your posturing to your girlfriend you can’t do it on a work phone - that’s simply governance and compliance to policy 101.
This ass clown was a section chief - how can he manage his reports if he is in egregious non-compliance?
@SD "Why do you continue reading if that's your conclusion. Matter of fact, why do you read anything?"
SD, I have said it before I will say it again...don't flatter yourself...I certainly do not read what you post, but instead just skim for the liberal bias and then call you out for it....if that is upsetting, you may want to adjust your liberal bias setting.
Brennan's lost any and all credibility he may of at one time had. He's nothing more than a partisan ideologue who suffers from TDS even more than some of the nonsensical lying spin doctors who can't stop posting their made up drivel on this forum.
He's likely guilty of several crimes himself and that's why he speaks out so loudly and so often about so much, spewing his nonsense to whoever will listen.
Take a clue John, it's not working for you, it's making you look more and more foolish by the day
GH -- so stripping a guy's security clearance because you don't like him, suspect, but can't prove his criminal actions, makes it OK to treat him as a threat to America, take his clearance, just because you don't like what he says, politically, as a private citizen, and are impotent to prove criminality? What message does that send to those who protect America --- agree with the President or be punished? Banana Republic freedoms.
Did you just call me a nonsensical spin doctor liar? Prove it and stop the name calling. It is beneath you and forum.
"SD, I have said it before I will say it again." I thought you were anti-repetition? I am sorry, I am sorry, you are woefully ineffective in your mission to skim and comment. However, a deeper reading might have seen: ""More personal words backed by zero credible sources.........all garbage" Personal words --- what is that?" Could you answer the direct question of defining "personal words?" Still waiting.....
continuing..... "Is that in juxtaposition to your impersonal retorts? Zero credible sources --- well, if you think that, you got me there, can't pull anything on you. Why do you continue reading if that's your conclusion. Matter of fact, why do you read anything?" Since my sources cover the waterfront of MSM and other sources, and since you seem to believe none of it as credible, and that even includes Donald J. Trump and Eric Trump (might agree with you there....), I questioned why read at all?
Seems to me you're skimming approach to stamping out liberal bias is a flawed implementation. Try reading....oh wait, "no credible sources," never mind :>)
Skippy: not sure NTN is a choice, but agree, if indeed it's a choice. Perhaps all employees though rather than Presidential targets only might deny the terrible optics of Trump's seemingly capricious, petty, punitive act
"look at Q29." You got to be kidding. 150 pages, xx sections, each with questions. You got to radar me in closer than that..... However, give me a break. Anyone in the Whitehouse hears things, the closer to the President the more you hear. Actually I grew up in that town and, in this case, my anecdotes cover much of the Whitehouse operations staff (plumbers, electricians, etc.). They heard things all the time. And they weren't even close to the President. Melanoma is one thing, she may have never even really been a communist just like your parents were liberals and look how you turned out :>) (kidding). But this guy shouldn't touch the lawn, and go no further than the Whitehouse tour.
Review the Hatch Act again, you will never hang Strzok on that. Even on the work phones you are allowed to express opinions. However, you are correct that these two were beyond stupid, should be censored mightily, yet, being fired --- heck, even the office charged with reviewing said situations said NO. Amazing what the loins will make one do. I mean they knew better, they knew people are listening (hell, they are the listeners), and they did it anyway because...….what the heart wants, the brain forgives.
We probably agree more that disagree on this one; ain't discussion grand. Now stop that; let's get back to the name calling like the rest.
Wait taking away clearance because he isn’t liked…. That’s exactly what started this Russia investigation! The liberals went crazy because Trump got elected and started an investigation based on nothing other than propaganda. At least with Hillary there was a reason to investigate her. She had a private server in her home that wasn’t secure, emailing classified documents. What did they have on Trump? Don Jr sat down briefly with a Russian? That’s exactly what Obama did during the 2012 election and no one investigated him. We actually have sound bytes of the conversation unlike whatever went down in Trump Jr office. No one gives a crap if Trump has done business with Russia. He’s done business with tons of countries. That’s not evidence of a crime. SD your TDS is at an unprecedented level.
SD: "suspect, but can't prove his criminal actions, makes it OK to treat him as a threat to America?"
Hmm... kinda like Trump?
SD: "locker room trash talk" "Nothing more."
Hmm... kinda like Trump?
Don't forget, Strange doesn't like name calling - still refers to the First Lady as Melanoma. He might want to look up the word hypocrite.
That’s the funny thing about SD. He bashes Melania and what has she done other than be graceful as first lady. You got former first ladies Hillary and Michelle out there being toxic, and not a peep from Melania. Shows she’s got more class than those two hasbeens.
John Brennan is nothing more than a partisan ideologue who suffers from TDS even more than the nonsensical lying spin doctors who can't stop posting their made up drivel on this forum.
quoted from above:
"your daily meltdowns about Trump-Russia election collusion have been the most entertaining to observe. After Robert Mueller was appointed as Special Counsel, you were absolutely convinced it would result in Trump’s arrest and/or impeachment. Some of you insisted that Trump wouldn’t last beyond 2017. You quickly swallowed any chum tossed at you by the Trump-hating media on MSNBC, the New York Times and the Washington Post about who was going down next, or who would flip on the president.
For the past year, I have watched you obsess over a rotating cast of characters: Paul Manafort, Donald Trump, Jr., Jared Kushner, Carter Page, Reince Priebus, Jeff Sessions, Michael Flynn, Steve Bannon, Sam Nunberg, and Hope Hicks are just a few of the people you thought would turn on Trump or hasten his political demise. But when those fantasies didn’t come true, you turned to Michael Avenatti and Stormy Daniels for hope and inspiration. It will always be your low point.
Well, I think it will be. Each time I believe you’ve hit bottom, you come up with a new baseline. Perhaps defending the unprecedented use of federal power to spy on political foes then lie about it will the next nail in your credibility coffin."
As said before, if the shoe fits . . . . (it's well past time to unfog that mirror)
Yes...she’s very graceful. Especially in those sexy magazines you guys read. Speaks 5 languages. So.....what’s up, with the “Be Best” platform? That was the “best” she could do? I guess Trump wrote it, as his command of the English language is that of a 5 year old child, with the mentality to match. Mr. Trump: Be YOUR Best. Melly is going to dump you, as soon as you’re out of office. Can’t happen soon enough. If Trump was a janitor, (no offense...janitors are needed and very hardworking) at Trump Tower, beautiful 28 year old Model Melly wouldn’t have given him the time of day. People actually think they love each other? Trump only loves money, himself, Ivanka, military protection (even though he doesn’t care about the poor humans that give him that protection) and “the smell of a construction site”.
Trump is Trump. People don’t change their entire being, all that much. If he had any shred of a conscience, he wouldn’t have hurt so many people in his past. Personal and business. History and present behavior speaks for itself. God bless America, seriously!
I guess you prefer Michelle Obama who declared Jay Z and Beyoncé great role models. You know the crack dealer who shot his brother in a business deal marriage to a woman who sings about where she likes to put her fingers and does black panther formation racist performances. Of course MO also only liked to praise black girls. That was a truly graceful and wonderful FLOTUS. Then there's Hillary, where do we begin? Her defense of a child rapist or her defense of her rapist husband...one could go on but I don't have all year.
You know Melania is quite tame by comparison. Even her racy snaps are nothing compared to those of Obama's mother.
Trump, grabbing and groping 1000s of young girls in beauty pageants and on television sets, against their will, over the span of his career “ because I’m a star....they will let you”, is much more similar to “rape” than a consensual affair between a charismatic leader and a younger intern, who was completely infatuated by him. Lots of women were in love with Bill. What Bill did was wrong. All cheating is, however there’s a BIG difference between what Bill did and what Trump did (not to mention the financial ruin he left people in). Yup... I fell into the “whataboutism” trap again.
Ummmm, yeah, no....there's plenty of talk out there of Bill involved in pedophilia with his pal Epstein. Let's not forget all the Clinton scandals. C'mon, do we really want to go down that rabbit hole?
Listen, I never in my life imagined that I would defend Trump. I don't even know that I am but the left and their extremism, their violence and their bias over the last several years - certainly since Obama's second term - has left me absolutely disgusted. Their actions are indefensible.
There’s talk, then there’s historical proven facts. The way you describe the left is an actual description of most of Trump’s fans. Instead of “real honest opinions” from Fox, try PBS, AP, or other news media outlets besides podcasts on utube, which are just opinions. Some people have a hard time seeing transparency.
Gee, thanks. I'm actually aware of that and receive news from several sources. I might suggest the same for you instead of assuming otherwise.
Guilty-remnant you have no proof he groped 1000's of girls. So IDK WTF you're talking about.
Already do! Except podcasts. I’ve never seen one...just clips, which I know can get chopped up by the news, for propaganda purposes “from both sides, folks”. It’s a deal. I’ll watch a complete right wing show, if you watch VICE ,CNN,or PBS. Just record Hannity, tonight and watch CNN for one hour. I’ll do the same. Peace...
“Guilty-remnant you have no proof he groped 1000's of girls. So IDK WTF you're talking about”
Metsman...you’re right. Trump’s a choir boy. The Trump logistics are exhausting!
Guilty, if you're still posting to me, I don't watch Fox, CNN, etc . I rarely watch broadcast news. I do read print news. I am a reference librarian, so my information comes from various print media worldwide.
I suggest we discuss issues based on facts rather than by name calling, branding people with fake afflictions, or silly comparisons to other people, places, and things.
"Hmm... kinda like Trump?" And that says it all for a new low in setting the bar. How about being Presidential instead.
"Don't forget, Strange doesn't like name calling - still refers to the First Lady as Melanoma. He might want to look up the word hypocrite." JYM -- we've done this before; I think the HL name calling convention is no-holds barred for public figures to which I try to apply. At least it seemed that way during the Obama years. It's the getting personal thing, like suggesting I am a hypocrite, that I take offense to ---- from any side or angle, even my own. If I am wrong about the culture here, I will change. If not, then Melanoma is a trophy wife; a good one, but nonetheless not exactly American First Lady material. I do like the clothes though. I give her the Kennedy Award for those, even the mistakes are stunning.
As much as you want to absolve President Trump by comparing him to Candidate Clinton or Obama's wife, I am talking Trump. When you want to put facts of the table there, about Trump, we can discuss. If you want to discuss Clinton, Obama, either gender in each, find a thread and I'm yours.
METS: "TDS is at an unprecedented level." It's not nice that brand someone with a fictional disease, but the fact you say you can measure it seems really obsessive. No doubt you use a Derangementometer to do that. Wow, that's dedication.
Mark Mc: Got any facts to go with those feelings? Care to make your emotions factual?
METS: "The liberals went crazy because Trump got elected and started an investigation based on nothing other than propaganda." How did the liberals do this egregious travesty of justice given YOU own the Presidency, the House, the Senate, 33 States? Man, you guys really just can not govern, can you?
"He bashes Melania and what has she done other than be graceful as first lady." Nice qualification to avoid the sexy snaps. I like the teen-jeans pics myself....part of the hunting-for-a-sugar-daddy portfolio. But wait, what about the coat? "I really don't care. Do U?" Or the plagiarism. Or the see-through togs for the NATO summit, or check the facial expressions in this one: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/melania-trump-relationship-tweet/ Trump rates about 8th, Obama rates about 2nd amongst First Ladies, according to fake Gallup survey of fake Americans using fake questions but making up the results.
GH's list: How do you define obsess;I have never mentioned a number of these folks so you seem to be stating what is politely called a misstatement. Others on your list are in jail awaiting verdict, others are guilty, others are spies. Hope Hicks seems to be a nice person and she had to quit.
"Well, I think it will be. Each time I believe you’ve hit bottom, you come up with a new baseline." Yeah. We're the ones coming up with the new stuff..... It's all the liberals fault..... see pic.
“Listen, I never in my life imagined that I would defend Trump”
Crazy, isn’t it that you have to in order to pounce out the idiocy of the “other side”.
“The way you describe the left is an actual description of most of Trump’s fans.”
The word you’re looking for is Republicrat lol
The defense that John Brennan should retain his security clearance islaughable. He has lied multiple times. He also revoked the clearances of the Benghazi heroes. How he became the CIA Director fathoms the mind.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2014/07/31/obama-should-fire-john-brennan/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.1cfadcae4c08
SD, see the last two sentences here;
http://www.hackettstownlife.com/forum/849873#t857190
Except where’s the beef. Many here decide it’s fake or a lie because, like you, they just don’t like it. Try refutting with facts amd we might have discussion.
I mean, let’s try one. Eric Trump said the golf courses are 100% Russian financed. True fact or making stuff up?
"Just stop making stuff up!" - good point, JIT +1,
Except for the fact that it ain't never gonna happen esp with the stranglerdangler. They like 'making stuff up' because it feeds and prolongs their anger which runs unabatedly amok. They just can't stop themselves. It's OCD brought on by TDS. They have no governor on their behavior.
But the fact remains that you are still compiling nothing but circumstantial evidence, evidence that only makes sense if you first believe the outcome you want.
Haven’t I repeatedly said that we need to wait for the investigation to run its course? Do you know why I’ve taken that stance, and why I give you a hard time for doing the exact opposite?
@SD "Could you answer the direct question of defining "personal words?" Still waiting....."
Sure...even though you historically ignore mine.....it's quite simple, I thought for sure you could figure it out, but (roughly) 95% of the claims you have made have not been backed by any credible sources by you, you are just throwing sh** at the wall to see what sticks at this point.....(nothing is sticking) but long story short these posts you claims as "facts", having zero credible sources makes them "personal words".
Not to mention, nobody cares about 3/4 of the things you are all up in arms about.....now it's Russian golf courses? really man....nobody cares.
" Many here decide it’s fake or a lie because, like you, they just don’t like it. "
>STOP<
>REWIND to 2008-2016<
>PLAY<
...except now it's YOU and the left.
It really would be helpful if you learned from history and experience, rather than playing the confirmation bias game ad nauseum. You may not be tired of it, but the rest of us are (well, the rest of us except for Stymie and Guilty-Remnant)
Cannot fully express the pleasure I am deriving from watching El Presidente’ unravel.
Slow motion train wreck.
Support beginning to peel off.
Har Har Har...
Lemme guess...
But Hillary......
Can’t make this stuff up...
Har Har Har....
^
|
Styme, so you are saying you like nothing better to see this country's demise and a collapse of our president? Interesting.........
and FYI, Trumps aproval rating jumped 3% up last week, as well Trumps approval rating is currently 42% Obamma's was 44% at this same time, Bill Clinton was 41%...sooooooo not seeing your claim
https://news.gallup.com/poll/203198/presidential-approval-ratings-donald-trump.aspx
I just love when people like you say he is loosing support...how about some factual evidence, because every time I look, there is no support loss, and in fact it is the total opposite, really makes me laugh that you have to make stuff up to try to make a point.
"Cannot fully express the pleasure I am deriving from watching El Presidente’ unravel."
Excellent! So now you know what the rest of us have been enjoying for almost 2 years, watching all the snowflakes melt and develop TDS.
But Darrin...
Don’t you know that “the truth isn’t the truth”?
That polls lie?
That what you see and read isn’t what is going on?
Who you gonna believe, him or your lying eyes?
Guess bald faced liars are good with you.
That says a lot.
November can’t get here soon enough for me; for many of us....
We’ll see....
Darrin and the Hawk: I just can't fathom why you keep reading much less responding.
If all of my sources have no credibility; then I have zero credibility in that you do not believe any MSM outlet plus a number of right-leaning sources as well. You also hold Donald J. Trump, and Eric Trump as not being credible since their quotes are the sources for some of the points I make.
No need to respond, I don't need the waste of your or my time in discussion.
Meanwhile, over 550 kids still separated from their parents as this administration is incompetent to put humpty dumpty back together again. Over 150 of these parents have signed waivers basically giving up their kids. Think there might be any problems with those papers? The ACLU does given the numerous accounts of coercion and deceit by our agents. Hope the judge comes down on all of this very soon.
Manafort goes into day four of deliberations which has to make prosecutors nervous. Everyone expects conviction of all or most of the counts, but...….
Butina is moved to the same prison as Manafort --- good to have all the Trump associated jailbirds together at last.
Papadopoulos recommended for 0-6 months for lying, but there's a twist. He did not cooperate. His wife said he is thinking about backing out of the deal he did not really participate in. Since the prosecutors got nothing from him, whether he backs out or not, I guess the government is able to unleash whatever they want against the guy for deeds done, starting with the lying. Sounds like he's useless to the prosecution and they will just proceed to try for the 6 months. Sentencing on 9/7 for the lying.
There are still nukes and now, new Russian-technology-based mussels in North Korea, no talks are scheduled. It was a fantastic meeting, great photo ops.
Here we go the liberals take one line and twist it into their ridiculous logic train...
He's afraid of the perjury trap, so he won't be interviewed.
What is a perjury trap? Is that the politically correct way of saying lying?
Is Trump really saying he's afraid of lying?
He's afraid.
Where's the trap in telling the truth?
He's afraid.
Maybe he's afraid people like you will twist what he says to fit their own narrative. Can't blame the guy.
I just want to hear the tapes that Omarosa supposedly has. Put it out there and let us all decide for ourselves. Really interesting is this week how the justices of NJ have decided that the police car cameras are now off limits to the Open Public Records Act. What's the matter, got something to hide? What about the attorney in Morris County court who was caught on the audio recording in the courthouse stating " I have the prosecutor in my pocket." Lot's of justice going on there.
The justice system, the lawyers,police, etc, you don't know what to believe. Personally I like the video and audio recordings. It catches them all, the democrats, the republicans, those who claim to uphold the law, those that don't and never will, the dogs that are doing tricks in my house....
https://www.nj.com/morris/index.ssf/2015/06/attorney_on_tape_says_morris_prosecutor_in_his_poc.html
Do republicans and democrats both agree on this?
https://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/news/crime/courts/nj-supreme-court-rules-police-dash-camera-recordings-not-public/article_47a7b534-da35-5cc1-be16-639352a70144.html
No worries.
The “Groper in Chief” will be handcuffed by a divided House come 2019.
Hallelujah!!!
He is afraid people will twist what he says to fit their own narrative conjecturally making stuff up out of thin air which is known as lying. It's the Goebbels Technique in action. They make a lifestyle out of it. They do it so much, so often, they think it's a legitimate method, but it isn't, not by a long shot.
"Giuliani is senile."
He might actually be beginning that journey....
"No worries.
The “Groper in Chief” will be handcuffed by a divided House come 2019.
Hallelujah!!!"
Maybe. Maybe not. I'm not foolish enough to make a prediction either way in this highly volatile political atmosphere. "Handcuffed" is certainly what the republican congress did to Obama for 6 years LOL. I can't wait for november, not because I'm expecting a particular thing, but because then we will KNOW what we're dealing with, instead of all the "speculation royale" that's been going on in this thread!
@SD "Darrin and the Hawk: I just can't fathom why you keep reading much less responding"
If we didn't post something, it would just be you saying the same sh** nobody reads over and over again! (Without any credible sources to back anything you say up of course)
Way to attempt to "shut up" the opposition though! Nice try!
@SD "Over 150 of these parents have signed waivers basically giving up their kids"
Bwahahahah! Well there you have it, case in point, so some parents WANT to be separated from their kids because they know with that loop hole their kids will have a better life in America.....on America's dime....but those air conditioned tents don't have leather couches!!!!!! your so silly sometimes.....
"No worries.
The “Groper in Chief” will be handcuffed by a divided House come 2019.
Hallelujah!!!" -Stymie
Delusional much? Supposed coming "blue wave" is a joke.
The real fireworks will happen if the Dems win the House and can subpoena Trump's tax returns.
So, Stymie, you really believe Hillary would have us in a good place? All I have to do is look at Europe and know that the muslim invasion of that continent, which she and Bernie would have welcomed, would be terrifying. The Dems are already trying to allow it from the inside in various elections.
I’ll admit my stupidity.
I didn’t realize that Alzheimer’s was a communicable disease.
Is tRUMP getting it from Rudy?
Or visa Versa?
Yes, GreyHawk, it's all a deep state conspiracy supported by our vast fake news network, the FNN, using Nazi techniques twisting your narrative making things up to lie. You're right, it's a lifestyle choice and stymie, a1b, m4c, and the rest of us libs not only legitimize Nazi techniques, we all met regularly to devise plans to ruin your lives.
It's not the Russians you need to fear......we're the cancer you need to cure.
Maybe Mueller can give Papadopoulos the same deal he and Comey gave Sandy Berger for stealing top secret classified documents from the National Archives. Pleaded down to a misdemeanor with a small fine.
What's in your pants?
https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2005/apr/4/20050404-084700-5791r/
Agreed, you are the cancer that needs to be cured. A very honest and revealing statement.
Thanks so much for making the point for me, it's much appreciated.
Release the recordings, Omarosa, then there is no "spin" to talk about. Truth is truth. Unless Omarosa, you are lying, and there are no recordings.
I like hard facts when making a decision. Video, pictures, audio. As much as I can get.
Everything else is a potential lie.
"If we didn't post something, it would just be you saying the same sh** nobody reads over and over again! (Without any credible sources to back anything you say up of course)"
I am sorry but this seems to make less than zero sense. Talk about giving pause for the cause, it's Darrin, fighting continual against sh** that people never read...….Watttta guy.
"Release the recordings, Omarosa, then there is no "spin" to talk about. Truth is truth. Unless Omarosa, you are lying, and there are no recordings.
I like hard facts when making a decision. Video, pictures, audio. As much as I can get.
Everything else is a potential lie."
Agree 100%. A outright lie at worst or an "incomplete/biased" "truth" at best.
Wow, Stranger, I am glad you're finally realizing the truth! YES,you and those who think like you are indeed a cancer. Finally, some self awareness. Maybe it's a start.
SD people get annoyed just seeing how long your posts are. Then they read them and oh boy...
Mets, SD tries to make everything look like it has to do with Trump....it's like he is talking to people who are just not here.
SD, remember there is a three post timeout...if it wasn't for us, you could only post three times....then what do you do with all this time on your hands?
Mets; you don’t know that. His case may be taxi’s and bank fraud, the sky’s the limit on what he delivers I think.
Or it may be the crime of still having a Blackberry
What we do know is law enforcement shares data so what ny sees, Mueller sees.
And no pardon capability here from the President.
Darrin, he’s Trump’s personal lawyer and fixer; if you don’t think Trump is in need of a new suit over this, you’re dreaming
Dream on.
What's he going to deliver SD? Unless he has hard evidence what will any potential testimony mean? Anyone could go on the stand and make crap up if the prosecution wants them to.
JYM,
Of course, Mueller is a great patriiot, greater than anyone who is demeaning him here. He volunteered in Vietnam and was not drafted like trump. Trying to spin a theory about a lifelong republican like Mueller to Hillary as if he is her husband is overdose on covfefe and foxnews. Trump appointee rodsenstein to wray to sessions are all standing behind Mueller in support of him. And mark my words, Mueller hasn't even spoken publicly yet after all abuses thrown on him, going by his track record in public service,be it military or as public prosecutor, I bet he will speak his 1st word publicly in courtroom!
What do they call Alexandria Federal Prison?
Trump’s Friends and Family plan.
Nixon thanks you for moving him up the scandal ladder.
You go JYM, keep fkogging that dead fish, we got some live ones in the pan, cooking, frying friends.
manafert comes in guilty and Don may go Scanners on us. May do the Howard Dean scream.
TheYale what military branch did Obama participate in? Oh that's right he didn't. See I can play that game too.
So what?
Whats next...the guy that cuts Trump's hair?
Maybe a guy who checked him out once at bottle king?
How can all you republicans still firmly believe there is no way that Russia may have influenced our election? This is the second time that JYM has posted some random picture, that I would bet they found on Facebook, designed to illicit this exact response. I'm not saying that the pictures she posted is from a Russian influence, but it doesn't matter, they were influenced by something as simple as these random pictures that get shared thousands of times.
JYM also then defended the posting, saying it's not even that bad and that other trusted media sources are just lying.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/08/21/michael-cohen-to-plead-guilty-face-jail-time-as-part-deal-with-federal-prosecutors.html
Includes 3-5 years in prison with no cooperation with prosecutors toward any future case. So there's your sky is the limit SD. LMAO...
Metsman,
I am talking about Mueller, Obama and Mueller are not same person. If you have nothing to say about Mueller, good! You can talk to me about 'Obama' when I talk about 'obama', ok?
Metsman is sending profanity laced emails to my yahoo account.
This is acceptable???
Really, Reasonable? You must have seriously failed reading comprehension because that's not at all what I said! I apologized for posting incorrect information and implied that doing so on a piss ant forum like this is no comparison to a major media outlet like Time magazine spreading false information. Do you understand the difference? Is that too hard to comprehend? Shall.... I...type..s..l..o..w..e..r?
As for Mueller being a patriot or more so than anyone here, who knows? That's not so easily quantifiable. Just because he served in Vietnam? While I applaud and respect that, so did McCain and his record is far from stellar as a public servant.
Oh, and reasonable (not) that Time magazine cover was a fake cobbled together picture of a child that was not held in a detention camp. If you need a coloring book and crayons too, they're probably on sale at the Dollar Store.
TheYale just saying if you're comparing a President to a former FBI director with a history of law enforcement and military in his background that's kind of dumb. The last President who fought in a war was George HW Bush.
Stymie I already posted what I said. It wasn't laced with anything it was one word.
Metsman,
Don't divert the topic to Obama or any president. If president should only compare and insult other president, tell that moron POTUS to stop attacking Mueller. If you want to talk about only presidents comparing them eyeball to eyeball, then open a separate thread
Then the so called president cadetbonespur nor his supporters here shouldn't abuse a law enforcement official,a veteran like Mueller here. The president and his supporters should stop demeaning a man whom he cannot compete with to begin with as far as public service is concerned. JYM says Mueller is a crony, how? Why? Because trump says he is thug and disgraceful? All because trump abuses him, his voters do the same? What kind of logic is that? If you can provide lawfully abiding proofs that Mueller is a disgrace and crony, I will apologise but I won't stand silent if people insult such a honorable man as Mueller.
His investigation is a disgrace. He's supposed to be investigating the Russian's meddling in the election and all he has to show for it is guys evading taxes from past transactions that have nothing to do with the scope of his investigation.
Where were you when Rosenstein appointed Mueller to investigate obstruction of Justice in Comey case with full authorization with wherever the investigation lead to! He was not appointed to investigate Russian meddling in the first place. Mueller didn't give himself the power to investigate everything under the sun,DOJ gave him that authority and why attack him for doing the job that he was assigned to do by the DOJ?
Why did Mueller as FBI Director and Comey as Assistant Attorney General let Sandy Berger plead down to a misdemeanor for stealing classified documents from the National Archives? No jail time and a small fine. He also lied to the FBI. There was no information that they needed from him to incriminate others. Close associate of the Clintons? Equal justice under the law, I think not.
Manafort guity. Wow, Trump’s Campaign Chair. That’s another guy who was in The Russian meeting at the tower.
Dominoes falling.
“Manafort guilty.”
...on less than half of the charges against him. Do the words “Russia” or “Trump” appear anywhere on the 8 indictments that stuck?
“Do the words “Russia” or “Trump” appear anywhere on the 8 indictments that stuck?”
Not sure Russia what you’re Russia taking about Russia. Can you Russia elaborate Russia? :-)
Kb:
If Comey had done anything wrong with limiting the scope of the case, he would have been investigated by the DOJ, senate and house run by republicans. Blaming Mueller doesn't solve the problems, if Mueller discovered physical proof of existence of Manafort several overseas accounts in tax fraud case, do you think he should just let him go because people like you would accused him trying to trap him for trump? Nope! Manafort doesn't have to opened his mouth on trump, nobody is asking him to. Only Manafort can decide his future course of action! Both Manafort and cohen have committed fraud with their taxes and nobody is forcing them to say anything about trump but the cases against them cannot be dropped because they may turn against the president
"In coordination with and at direction of a candidate for federal office"
The President of the United States has been implicated under oath of a federal crime.
The first of many, I'm sure.
TRUMP directed the payments to be paid.
OH, That can’t be the truth...
Truth is:
NORTH KOREA continues to move forward..
NO BETTER AND CHEAPER HEALTH CARE...
NO INFRASTRUCTURE BILL...
WE’RE AT WAR WITH RUSSIA—BUT EL PRESIDENTE’ can’t respond because Putin has him by the short ones...
VOTE
VOTE
VOTE
VOTE
The Yale, my post had nothing to do with Manafort. My point was that they let Cohen cut a deal for info on Trump. Why did Mueller and Comey in their roles at the time let Sandy Berger plea down to a misdemeanor and serve no jail time for stealing classified documents and lying to the FBI. There was nothing to gain from offering the plea except maybe to let one of Clinton's former associates and former National Security Advisor off the hook for his crimes. Do you think that was okay?
If these people committed crimes they should be punished for them and that goes for Trump also. As I said, equal justice under the law, I think not.
Well, intelligence states as fact that they are firmly implanted on our power grid and that they CONTINUE to attack our election process in a variety of ways.
I guess that if someone continues to physically confront you and you don’t respond- you’re technically not in a fight .
That makes you a (p) wussy.
Unless you’re the 300 lb. person in your Mom’s basement.
Yeah, right.
Yes, A1B, and it’s a felony for an unindicted conspirator candidate 1 in campaign contribution violations to tip the scale of election results. Not once, but twice.
Stand By Your Man.
Yes, 8 out of 18 counts found guilty. Last I checked, 8 out of 18 guilty means guilty, guilty, guilty.
It’s probably Hillary as the unamed candidate, right? She’s the one with that Yuge grin right now cackling away.
KB-yes, convict them all for whatever crimes you find. Kust can’t be Russian to justice all the time. You gotta go where that stinky smell leads you.
What’s that - five guilty, couple in jail.
Now, if we bring the conversation back to one of the original topics. Reports are that the murderer of Mollie Tibbetts is an ILLEGAL immigrant. Knowing this, there's no way I support the democrats policies. No. Way!
just wondering how many murders have been committed by illegal aliens vs good old US citizens - just wondering
I'm guessing you would know 4cat, bunkered down in that gated community you moved to after living off us taxpayers and moving out here from the more crime ridden eastern areas (you know where there are more minorities).
Oh, 4cat, you've given us all the details. Unless you lied. Of course that's when you're not here to shake your head at posters. LOL
Did someone just say minorities = more crime? Getting very close to the line there. Got stats for that?
If Manafort only scored 8 out of 18 convicts, does that mean he won?
We now have five witches caught. More hunting please. And we have collusion tween Trump and Cohen, a minority member. That’s almost Russian :-)
4cat, it is quite simple, if they weren't here they couldn't have committed the crimes against US citizens. Get it?
We now have conspiracy to rig the election; sworn and corroborated, money trail, text messages, by Mr. Cohen, Mr Trump, and perhaps The National Enquirer.
4catmom:
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2015/07/illegal_aliens_murder_at_a_much_higher_rate_than_us_citizens_do.html
Note the pass thru link to the GAO stats here:
https://www.gao.gov/assets/320/316959.pdf
California GOP Congressman just indicted for $250,000 campaign fund theft.
BOY OH BOY,
Both chambers maybe??
Republicrats Stymie. Or do you usually ignore the antics of your own party?
Either way, Shirley you’re not surprised?!?
Oh,no.
I realize holding a government position has little to do with public service and is nearly exclusively about self enrichment.
It’s just that the GOP pushes it (our treasure)
blatantly to the top 1%, and the Dems try to spread it around a little more.
All crooks, by and large.
But I abhor racism and bigotry, and if you’ll look those terms up in your Funk and Wagles, you’ll find a picture of the hump, err...tRUMP.
Agree with your stated positions Stymie, with one exception:
https://i2.cdn.turner.com/money/dam/assets/161221173430-inequality-piketty-1-780x439.png
Can you spot the years where your favored group reduced the wealth divide?
As I said, the big picture screams “Republicrats”. One in the same.
Just wondering, why are the Dems out of their mind that foreigners have influenced our elections and then going out of their way to allow illegal foreigners to vote in local elections in certain jurisdictions.
Why didn’t the dems care when Obama influenced the Israeli election? No one cares about anything until and unless it affects what is supposedly important to them.
Suze,
Thanks for letting us know that Trump voters don't care our elections were meddled with because Obama meddled Israeli elections. So, why don't we officially invite the Russians and other foreign govts to officially meddled in our next elections? The republicans don't mind it cos they say Obama did it to Israel and other govt, they can ask the Russians to take over the RNC, Russian national committee officially
TheYale, thanks for letting us know that Dems don’t care what wrongs their party committed and may still be committing because that doesn’t matter now. They just hate Trump so much that no matter what they’re gonna get ‘em!
Suze,
If you want to get to the itsy bitsy of party politics, I can give a list of wrongs committed by republicans in the history of this country! The lists are longer than what Obama did! But I didn't and don't want to get there because I believe it's about time we look beyond the party politics to defend our country from a foreign adversary like Russia! It's shocks me american can defend an attack on our democracy by bringing up Obama govt's action! I have a dirty laundry list of human lives lost, regime change in foreign countries under the REPUBLICAN presidents. But I don't blame them, maybe they did it in the best interest of our country and democratic values it was founded on.
Gee, I guess that the bullet that Cohen was referring he’d take for tRUMP was in fact that kitchen appliance we see advertised on TV.
“Lay with dogs and you get fleas”
Hope they have Benadryl on Air Force 1
Hallelujah!
Why is it no one has said anything about Russian meddling in the past? You think they haven’t tried to do stuff since the existence of the internet and even before that? It’s kind of funny people think it’s something new. But if you think that got Trump elected you’re amusing individuals. Trump got elected with his drain the swamp and MAGA speeches. What did Hillary provide? She spent more time bashing Trump than coming up with a message that the people wanted to hear. Only Californians voted for her overwhelmingly. She won by 4 million votes there. Hmmm if Russia caused Trump to win wouldn’t the results be different there? Or are we saying people they are smarter than the rest of the country and saw the Russian subliminal messages.... lol... I think not. They have a lot of loony toon policies there. Trump ran a better campaign plain and simple!
"Not sure Russia what you’re Russia taking about Russia. Can you Russia elaborate Russia? :-)"
That's about the size of it, LOL
“WE’RE AT WAR WITH RUSSIA”
It's 1980 now?
"Just wondering, why are the Dems out of their mind that foreigners have influenced our elections and then going out of their way to allow illegal foreigners to vote in local elections in certain jurisdictions."
"Why didn’t the dems care when Obama influenced the Israeli election? No one cares about anything until and unless it affects what is supposedly important to them."
BINGO. We have the elephant in the room... avert your eyes! Avert your eyes!
"TheYale, thanks for letting us know that Dems don’t care what wrongs their party committed and may still be committing because that doesn’t matter now. They just hate Trump so much that no matter what they’re gonna get ‘em!"
And that, ladies and gentlemen, sums up the ENTIRETY of the last 18 months.
The 7 degrees of Vladimir Putin continues....
Unless voting machines were hacked to change a vote, "meddling" does not mean anything. Raise your hand if a facebook ad changed your vote. I will thank you for your honesty, and pray that tomorrow you don't wake up stupid again.
In Mansfield, you check the electronic AND paper version of your vote before you cast it. Good backup.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/08/22/mollie-tibbetts-murder-suspect-worked-less-than-3-miles-from-where-was-staying.html
Can we finally admit we need more border security…. This guy passed an everify check and was still illegal… SD and company are worried about kids sitting in AC who are getting 3 meals a day, meanwhile an American citizen can’t even go jogging without the fear that some person who shouldn’t be here will kill them… So add Mollie Tibbets to an ever growing list of people. Oh but SD and company will say, but Americans kill Americans too…. Please… Don’t diminish this girls life just because there are killers who were born here as well…. Is that what you’re going to say if one of your children meets their end this way?! You have a better chance of it happening in NJ since this state has one of the larger population of illegals.
“Raise your hand if a facebook ad changed your vote.”
Even simpler, has anyone here on HL changed there vote because of information presented on the site? Better yet, has anyone changed their political outlook based on anything posted here?
My guess is maybe 0.1%, if that. And those may have been for reasons other than “fake news” lol.
"Even simpler, has anyone here on HL changed there vote because of information presented on the site? "
Not yet, but elections happen infrequently.
"Better yet, has anyone changed their political outlook based on anything posted here?"
Yes. I have, and I have had people email me who told me theirs changed from reading my posts. So it does work, to some degree, but they are likely a "silent" group.
Which, by the way, is why the insanity of wanting social media to censor their sites is ridiculous. The voices and opinions will always be there even when those wanting censorship are found with their fingers in their ears lol.
"As I said, the big picture screams “Republicrats”. One in the same." Whilst you might point out many a similarity, I can equally point out many a difference. Viva la difference.
"But if you think that got Trump elected you’re amusing individuals." Again...you are correct, but it is also correct to say you can't prove it didn't get Trump elected either, can you?
However, the new news ---- sworn in court, documented, money trailed, etc. is that Trump, individual 1, as an unindicted co-conspirator violating campaign finance laws to rig the election in his favor. It's a federal crime, it's a felony. On this one, it is pretty easy to say he influenced the outcome of his own election. The only question is what's next --- indictment, impeachment, both or something else. Hopefully, in a less than perfect world, Mueller will now whisper the dark secrets to Team Trump in Congress and Team Trump will convince the President to protect the office, to protect his family, that he goes quietly into history. Pence can even pardon him for anything else that's in the works. Let's just move on.
"Raise your hand if a facebook ad changed your vote." I see the Russian disinformation game changing our opinions every day, both sides. I see a Russian Spy infiltrating a all-to-willing NRA to gain access to a few Democrats and many Republicans with the possibility of a sexual relationship to gain further influence. I see a campaign that asked the Russians to meddle, and they did that day. They asked the Russians for damaging info on a competitor, and now the President is linked to that little soirée with documentation to follow. What's open is did they get any info, did they orchestrate the delivery times of that info to the public, all things that Mueller has a better handle on no doubt.
I think it will be some time, much reflection and study, to determine the true effects of the Russian meddling and Trump corruption had on the electorate. Right now, based on no study whatsoever, is no influence to the point of changing the result. I can live with that, for now. The question is --- isn't it still wrong to try?
"Better yet, has anyone changed their political outlook based on anything posted here?" Yes, it happens all the time. Especially, for me, with guns my outlook has a number of changes. Also on the fiat money system systemically causing inflation and loss of value over time ---- you did that.....
JIT --- the censorship should be about lying, not ideas. Even for white supremacy and Nazism.
Back to immigration for a moment. The situation in Venezuela is horrible. Colombia needs to send some hit men in. The leadership is worse than bad. They are so bad, it is bizarre.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/Venezuela_bridge
Their hyperinflation is crazy. I heard on the radio yesterday that it will soon be 1,000,000%, even with the arbitrary lopping off of zeros from their currency!
Or to be kinder,offer Maduro a nice life on an island if he resigns and proper elections can be held.
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/07/12/illegal-immigrant-crime-wave-evidence-is-hard-to-find.html
With Manafort jury hung on 10 counts, a couple of things.
1. don't think it really affects the penalty --- the eight counts held the lion's share
2. will be interesting to see if the fed refiles the case for the 10 counts, no real need given point 1, but if only one juror hung it, might be long hanging fruit for another conviction.
Even the first case doesn't really matter except to give Mueller some street creds; it's the second case that puts Manafort away for life, at least what's left of his.
Too many pardons, too little time.....
The witch hunt is far from over but with five guilties, a couple convictions, the concept that Trump hires well is moot. Another lie.
" the concept that Trump hires well is moot. Another lie."
Agreed that he does not hire well. But it's not a lie LOL, it's just wishful thinking.
The fact that he brought Omarosa into the white house gives me even more serious questions about his lack of judging character.
Goebbels said, tell a lie enough, people will believe it. And with the media being accomplices of the lefts madness, they regurgitate the same crap made to get people believing a lie. By the way Goebbels was a NAZI.
4catmom give me a break... losing one life due to illegals is too many. But it isn't one it's many. A 17 year old MS-13 gang member killed 4 people on long island and was just convicted.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/08/22/ms-13-gang-member-in-us-illegally-pleads-guilty-in-brutal-quadruple-killing.html
4catmom, the article I posted was about murder rates, in response to your original comment, which are higher per capita for illegal immigrants.
Overall crime rates are, like you said, not necessarily higher for the group.
GH loves to drop that Nazi card, doesn't he. I guess he doesn't notice his King's penchant for bullet-point name-calling branding, demeaning, demonizing, repetitions because: "he likes it, Mikey, he likes it." I think you take the cake when it comes to repetition.
Meanwhile....
JIT – read your immigration piece slowly since it differed from what I knew. Point one is: American Thinker is a tad biased.
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/american-thinker/
Hoven is an engineer with a proficiency for the numbers. Unfortunately, he, as well as others, are dealing with a lot of apples and oranges, which, being an engineer, he readily admits. No one I can find takes on his numbers directly, and I just can’t take the time to pull apart his convoluted math processes. Many think this is not true and I provide a dialog from both sides.
https://immigration.procon.org/view.answers.php?questionID=000782
As a fact check, I come out, as does FactCheck.Org, that immigrants perform crimes, or at least get caught, less than natives. https://www.factcheck.org/2018/06/is-illegal-immigration-linked-to-more-or-less-crime/
That does not diminish the terrible tragedy that Mollie Tibbets, others, and their friends and families are going through nor undermine that we can solve the most of the illegal immigration literally overnight via nationwide, mandatory implementation of E-Verify and stop the need for this discussion. And I agree with Mets, NJ has more illegals than most states. However NJ is one of the best states to avoid crime in so go figure, right Mets? Seems to be a fly in your ointment, eh?
“The State of New Jersey reported 245.0 violent crimes and 1,544.6 property crimes per 100,000 inhabitants for 2016. New Jersey’s violent crime rate is 33.8 percent lower than the national median, and the property crime rate is 40.2 percent lower. New Jersey has a similar proportional makeup of crimes by type to the national median.” https://muninetguide.com/u-s-state-crime-rates/
Beyond extra pages, it just provide the baseline where Hoven extrapolates, and I used the term loosely, from there. Same bottom line for me; I just don't have the time to struggle through the myriad of assumptions that Hoven has put on top of the GAO and the GAO is clearly not saying or assuming what Hoven does.
Hoven is biased, so grain of salt time and I produced many pro's and con's that perhaps you should peruse.
And the 'Big Lie' technique rears it's ugly head once again, good work propaganda minister;
E-verify failed Mollie Tibbets, if E-verify had worked as designed her illegal immigrant murderer would not be in the country.
Build the wall, Make America Great Again, the good woks started with Ronald Reagn (bless his soul) with it's continuing success being shepparded by Donald J. Trump
You guys do realize that Lanny Davis (as was stated before was Clintons lawyer) had his client plead guilty to two non existent crimes.. there was no adjudication here.
the NDA payments to stormy daniels were absolutely legal as they were not spent out of the campaign - any one else curious where the FEC is on all of this? Why is a prosecutor in SDNY running with this?
here is the plea agreement.
https://www.scribd.com/document/386776638/Michael-Cohen-Plea-Agreement-August-21?campaign=SkimbitLtd&ad_group=725X700959Xd98802690786534f30c30819db635690&keyword=660149026&source=hp_affiliate&medium=affiliate
it contains a total of eight counts claimed by the SDNY as unlawful activity. However, one count is entirely political and not supported by the Federal Election Commission.
the first five charges tax evasion 2012 - 2016. The sixth bank fraud charge, - lying on a credit application. The seventh charge - structuring financial transactions through a corporation.
The charge of an illegal campaign contribution is completely baseless - even the FEC does not consider the $130K paid to Stormy Daniels and $150K paid to Karen McDougal a campaign contribution.
"Obama's 2008 campaign was fined $375,000 by the Federal Election Commission after the campaign failed to provide a 48-hour notice for nearly 1,300 contributions that totaled more than $1.8 million" and nobody batted an eye.
https://www.politico.com/story/2013/01/obama-2008-campaign-fined-375000-085784
meanwhile real campaign finance fraud may have happened in the 2016 election - but it's ok they are democrats..
"A new legal complaint filed with the Federal Election Commission alleges that the Hillary Clinton campaign and the Democratic National Committee used state chapters as strawmen to circumvent campaign donation limits and laundered the money back to her campaign." - to the tune of $84M
http://thefederalist.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/feclawsuit.pdf
https://www.investors.com/politics/commentary/the-anatomy-of-hillary-clintons-84-million-money-laundering-scheme/
as far as Manafort - he got jammed up on a 2005 tax case - everything else was a hung jury - Rosenstein let him off of these exact same charges back 06 while working for the Podestas but now it's a crime because he worked for Trump for 3 months.
Can you honestly sit there with a straight face and say this is in any way not politically motivated?
Notice that only links that Stranger doesn't post or agree with are "biased"? Huh, that's odd.
When does he get fitted for an orange suit, maybe one that matches that fake mop on his head?
Oh, and I don't really care, do U? This could be the best campaign slogan ever!
Meanwhile Lanny Davis goes on the Megan Kelly show and asks the Public to contribute to a GoFund Me he set up for Michael Cohen. The audience laughs him off the show.
And as Skippy has correctly pointed out, there is no there, there, as the fake news is orgastically swooning by repeating outright lies over and over again ad nauseum, and you suckers are buying it hook, line and sinker
Talk about confirmation bias, holy moly, just wow
They have to prove the funds for the payoffs came from campaign funds. If it is Donald Trumps personal money, no crime was committed.
GH "Mollie Tibbets, if E-verify" come on man, they are still investigating the failure, if there was one. Let's wait for the full story before you throw the baby out with the bathwater. Put down the flamethrower and figure out first whether the systems needs to be burned down. Most feel E-verify is pretty secure.
JYM: I don't have a clue what you are referring to. Are you from the Ghouliani school of rhetoric?
"Why is a prosecutor in SDNY running with this?" Because Mueller deftly handed it off to avoid the politics and to block Donald J. Trump's Presidential power's meddling. Basically Cohen fessed up to all this stuff, including implicating the President in a felony. Can you source the FEC's decision on whether this is a campaign contribution.
On the Hillary $84M, you may have one there, at minimum it is wrong, but doubtful you will legally nail her on taking advantage of a law fostered by Republicans and confirmed by the conservative part of the SCOTUS to allow it to happen. Hoisted on your own petard is more like it. See McCutheon decision for better info. FEC decisions take time, they may be back on 2012 for example but this one is worthy, IMO, of investigation. MSM has dropped the ball here, but let's face it, much news is being dropped now-a-days from all perspectives.
Yeah, there is no there, there. it's all baseless, click you heals three times and say MAGA. Otherwise, Skippy, it's only politically motivated if you don't believe..... :>)
You are right, it is not the beginning of the end. It is, however, the end of the beginning. It is clear there are a lot of witches in Trump land and Mueller is just getting started.
SD Cohen was facing a lot of time. There was obviously enough evidence against him for other stuff besides the payoffs to the women that he didn't want to risk losing and be stuck behind bars for a long time. I believe one of the charges was for a taxi company that he runs that he evaded taxes on. So Cohen could plead down like he did and not be guilty of what he plead down to. It happens all the time in the court system. They offer these deals to save money on prosecuting cases. If there were payoffs to these women it was most likely out of Trumps pocket not campaign funds. Therefore no crime was committed if that is the case. And even if it was campaign funds, Obama got fined for the same thing with a much higher sum of money being used. All you'd have to do as an attorney is site that case. John Edwards was acquitted for the same thing. It's a nothing burger...
The FEC stuff was in the plea agreement - regardless of muller they should be prosecuting the campaign stuff - not the SDNY
You’re right - Obama and the DNC actually committed fraud by hiding donors and paid the largest fine ever paid to the FEC.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/obama-campaign-to-pay-375000-fine-for-omitting-some-donors-names-in-2008/2013/01/04/78973402-56bb-11e2-8b9e-dd8773594efc_story.html?utm_term=.e7063e1ea62e&noredirect=on
"JYM: I don't have a clue what you are referring to. Are you from the Ghouliani school of rhetoric?"
"It's obvious you don't have a clue, stranger. Painfully obvious."
Hmmmm. And I still don't have a clue what you are referring to. I did already know that you feel I am a brick shy of a wall. I perfectly understand you there. But let's keep not discussing, it's less than illuminating, tyvm.
Skippy: I believe the FEC is a civilian authority and, as such, can not prosecute, just fine. Fact: President Trump is an unindicted co-conspirator in a campaign funding violation felony admitted guilt by Mr. Cohen. Fact: Cohen says Trump directed Cohen to commit the felony. That's a felony that needs to be investigated and probably adjudicated. Fact: There is a money trail; whether it's from the campaign or not may not matter. A personal payment might be considered an in-kind contribution.
There is a crime, Cohen committed it. He said so. Cohen says it's Trump-directed.
There is a money trail starting from Trump.
I thought Cohen/Davis said Cohen had documented the directive via texts but now it sounds like he meant the money-trail. Perhaps my bad, perhaps they walked it back. Tthat is where Trump's he-said, he-said leverage might exist until more disastrous details drop. Or, it may not matter, the money trail, personal or not, may be enough. It's a classic Mafia pay-off where the soldier takes the action, the money leads to the Don, and right now, that's where it ends.
Obviously even if stone-cold guilty holding the smoking gun, we still would not rush to indict because of the immediate Constitutional crisis that would ensue. Yes, Presidents are special, DJT has proven that. He has lied, cheated, specifically to rig and win the election and because he won, he may "legally" get away with it in plain view.
We all know who told who to do what...… Don told Mike to pay off to hush up the girls he was diddling so they wouldn't go public and he could therefore win the election. They further roped The National Enquirer in to act as go-between to get the goods in one case as IF they would publish (that was the deal), and then had the media source sit on the news.
It is a felony and I don't think the FEC will be the one adjudicating it or prosecuting it. It's Federal Law, not civil authority regulations.....I think.
For the record: President Obama, President Hillary ----- investigate and prosecute them all. Still does not absolve Donald J. Trump. You, and Congress, are entering a Faustian Agreement to overlook Trump's culpability in this and to not immediately open a Congressional investigation. This IS about a rigged election.
And on top of the Russians, this will, at minimum, continue to show the pattern of how Donald J. Trump goes through life destroying the lives of those who work for him and disillusioning those who enter into the Agreement with him. Good luck!
SD, if you really think anything the Russians may have done influenced a meaningful number of people to vote for President Trump, you're only fooling yourself. The only way this Russian theory will mean anything is if evidence shows they actually changed votes --- after they were cast. What excuse are you Liberals going to use when President Trump is re-elected?
there is a difference between debating whether Trump is a legitimate president and continuing to express concerns about the legitimacy of the election - you have failed Trump has been elected - deal with that fact
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYvKcAh1zdo
bonus pager video on immigration
I have a sincere question for supporters of the current holder of the office of POTUS. Can you tell me what you admire about the man? Without mentioning the Clintons (either of them), the Obamas (either of them) or any other politician.
summerrain1 Aren't all political commercials done to try and influence an election. Was the Access Hollywood tape released to try and influence the election or was it a Public Service announcement? If the payment was made from his funds or his corporate account it is legal as per Alan Dershowitz and Mark Levin. These things happen all the time, people sign agreements(NDAs) take their money and walk away. When asked what made Cohen flip, Lanny Davis said Helsinki, lol.
Trump is definitely a douchbag but the hysteria is unbelievable.
"If the payment was made from his funds or his corporate account it is legal as per Alan Dershowitz and Mark Levin."
Did you expect these two to argue against Trump?
Trump's intention was to not disclose an in kind campaign contribution. John Edwards did the same but he succeeded in claiming that the payoff was for personal reasons. Unfortunately for Trump, he's already making the argument that it was to help the campaign.
Some on here are no better than the very politicians and fake news casters you've been complaining about.
Resorting to low blow personal attacks on posters that happen to have an opposing view? You know who you are.
I guess a mature healthy debate is out of the question.....
Nice..
Anything that Cohen tells SDNY or Mueller has to be corroborated with evidences admissable to court, be it regarding trump foundation to his business dealings. And Mr Mueller is a man who won't show his cards until there is sufficient evidences to back them up in court.
And personally no american or for that matter no POTUS has been born who is above the law of the land. And we should respect the court of law to decide the fate of the legal and lawful investigation.
kb2755 said:
"Aren't all political commercials done to try and influence an election. Was the Access Hollywood tape released to try and influence the election or was it a Public Service announcement? If the payment was made from his funds or his corporate account it is legal as per Alan Dershowitz and Mark Levin. These things happen all the time, people sign agreements(NDAs) take their money and walk away. When asked what made Cohen flip, Lanny Davis said Helsinki, lol.
Trump is definitely a douchbag but the hysteria is unbelievable."
Fantastic post. Right on the mark. I would add all media sources as well (trying to influence an election): Fox, Limbaugh, Hannity trying to "help" the right, and everyone else trying to help the left. True journalism is virtually dead in the United States of America. Just ask Brian Williams.
“And personally no american or for that matter no POTUS has been born who is above the law of the land. And we should respect the court of law to decide the fate of the legal and lawful investigation.”
Agreed. But sadly reality has always been a bit different.
NDA’s are a strange beast, legal agreements meant to keep secrets. All too common and backed by law. Used by nearly every company as a standard business practice to prevent the loss of intellectual property, and anyone in a decision making role has likely signed one at some point in their careers. But they can be and are abused, as is the case here. The point is that it’s not uncommon by any stretch and happens every day, and there’s nothing illegal about them.
Payoffs used in conjunction with NDA’s to keep people quiet - to keep secrets - are also very common, sadly.
Reputation management leading up to an election isn’t exactly a news flash either. Every candidate does it in one way or another. With money. Lots and lots of money.
So besides the confirmation that Trump is a slimy politician just like the rest of them (like anyone needed confirmation lol) the big news here is whether or not the money came from the campaign. That would be an illegal act for sure.
One further thought is about our major media outlets who’s businesses exist only because of *advertising* money. The more people watch the more money they make. And anyone who was breathing during the last election knew two things: Republicrats spent more money than ever on Reputation Management, and the major media outlets were about 6 stations to 1, 4 news outlets to 1, for the Licrats over the Repubs. If there really were entities influencing our election it was them. But since they failed and Trump was elected anyway, I find it excruciatingly funny that those same outlets have been blaming Russia for their own failure to sway the public the way they wanted. And people eat it up like candy!
"and the major media outlets were about 6 stations to 1, 4 news outlets to 1, for the Licrats over the Repubs. If there really were entities influencing our election it was them. But since they failed and Trump was elected anyway, I find it excruciatingly funny that those same outlets have been blaming Russia for their own failure to sway the public the way they wanted. And people eat it up like candy!"
In a nutshell!
That's been my big positive take away from this ENTIRE election (and even the 18 months following): the election of Trump despite the DNC, GOP, and 90% of news outlets being against him. That means the people are learning that the news can no longer be trusted... people are learning to make up their own minds instead of believing what they are fed. I think the social media platforms have played a large roll in that. As bad as they are for "fake news", they are also just as GOOD for getting truth out there... because the MSM sure isn't interested in telling the whole, unbiased story. As I said, journalism isn't journalism anymore, it's borderline propaganda. The election system, for the time being, still works- if someone like Trump (love him or hate him) can be elected with the WHOLE political system and 90% of the media against him, that stands for something.
Unfortunately, the republicrats are probably "already removing the safety features of their weapons, and they won't make the same mistake twice" (NAME THE MOVIE!)
And all that goes ditto for his popularity rising, despite the continued onslaught from the MSM. People aren't listening. CNN's ratings have dropped to below that of HGTV and the Food Channel LOL.
when those are paid off for wrongdoings and it's done so to be hidden from the press, which will influence who votes for whom when it's (not) in the News, it is a crime for a candidate.
just another unethical thing he's done! he pushes until he gets away with it. just like Steven Tyler from Aerosmith: He was told to (not) use Tyler's songs at his ralleys in writing, yet he continues to do so. What will stop him from obeying?
now he's got those (Cohen) telling the courts the TRUTH and what DT's done and said (and it 's on audio tape too!), because Cohen will now be going to jail, along with all the others that worked under him going to jail. (Manafort, etc. in the future).
Possibly jail, heavy fines and impeachment is due - next. his followers don't give a s--t what he does and says. Those with a moral brain do.
"the big news here is whether or not the money came from the campaign. That would be an illegal act for sure."
It doesn't matter if the money came from the campaign or not. If it came from Cohen or Trump Org, it's an in kind campaign donation, one that helps the campaign but is not a direct financial contribution. The law was broken because it exceeded the 2,700 dollar limit. What makes the action criminal is that Trump knew and intended to hide it.
Trump now claims that he did not know about the payment but Cohen has him on tape discussing it. He also says that Obama violated campaign finance laws. This is true but Obama's was a filing error and not an outright attempt to conceal, making Obama's a civil regulatory case and Trump's criminal. There is no comparison.
"This is true but Obama's was a filing error and not an outright attempt to conceal, making Obama's a civil regulatory case and Trump's criminal. There is no comparison."
Confirmation bias runs wild.... Obama has a halo, while Trump has horns.
Riiiiiiight.......
BTW, I have this wonderful piece of oceanfront property in Arizona for sale, if you're interested....
1. the FEC isn't involved in Cohen's case
2. there is no way those charges would have stuck if they were the only counts in the indictment.
3. Just because Cohen pled guilty to something is NOT the same as proof that it occurred beyond a reasonable doubt.
Just a reminder Clinton paid Paula Jones 850k in an NDA as a sitting president...
This Harvard Law Review takes a good look at the context and the precedent here, drawing heavily from a highly analogous case against John Edwards.
https://blog.harvardlawreview.org/the-coming-storm-hush-money-and-the-federal-election-campaign-act/
"At trial, the Government’s case against Edwards faltered because prosecutors were unable to prove that Edwards’s wealthy benefactors, Rachel Mellon and Fred Baron, made the payments “for the purpose of influencing” the 2008 election (as opposed to, say, helping their friend Edwards conceal the affair from his cancer-stricken wife)."
"On the other hand, it does seem somewhat harder to prove that the payment is a campaign “contribution” if its original source was Trump’s own personal funds, but for reasons that are more atmospheric than legal: it strikes me as harder to convince a jury that such an expense is fundamentally about the election (rather than about personal, reputational harm) when the candidate himself ponies up the cash, even if the timing is suspicious."
what does this mean?:
Edwards didn't have a public image outside of politics, so it's a much harder to case to make that the payments were made for apolitical reasons - and it still failed.
Paying off Stormy was something Trump would have done normally even if he weren't running for election, this isn't a campaign finance violation. Trump has done this with pretty much every woman he's slept with that he didn't marry - remember the playboy bunny?
Trump-supporter poster child... what a dope, lol.
https://www.lehighvalleylive.com/news/index.ssf/2018/08/biting_a_dildo_to_ward_off_a_b.html?__vfz=medium%3Dtray_notification#
"3. Just because Cohen pled guilty to something is NOT the same as proof that it occurred beyond a reasonable doubt."
Especially if it's a plea deal. Plus, any statements he makes about Trump need to be corroborated with, you know, actual evidence. (I'm guessing the "at the direction of" comment was Trump saying something like "Mike, make this go away", not "Mike, transfer funds out of campaign contribution account XYZ and illegally use them to pay off person A.")
Now, on top of this, a juror in Manafort's trial basically said they threw out Rick Gate's testimony in their deliberations, because he took a plea (therefore not trusting the integrity of his statements). So, I would expect a similar reaction to any comments/testimony from Cohen should they be used in any upcoming cases.
From: https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/23/politics/paul-manafort-juror-paula-duncan/index.html
"Some of us had a problem accepting his testimony because he took the plea. So we agreed to throw out his testimony and look at the paperwork, which his name was all over," Duncan said. "I think he would have done anything to preserve himself -- that's just obvious in the fact that he flipped on Manafort," she later added."
So, is Cohen similarly trying to "save himself"?
Exactly Darrin - but of course Liberals are not concerned with personal financial planning - they're all too happy to rely on the Government's dime. What those folks fail to understand is that dime was really their dollar to begin with.
Look at all the liberals heads spinning… If John Edwards isn’t guilty then neither is Trump. Move on with your lives… It’s pathetic how many people are hoping the President gets impeached. You’re basically hoping our country fails. There’s something wrong with people like that… You didn’t get your way in 2016. Boo hoo… Come back out in 2020 and try again. If you want to look at campaign fraud, then look no further than what Hillary did to Bernie. Some of you are blind. It’s like a Jedi mind trick is being played on you when it comes to corruption by Hillary… “This is not the candidate you are looking for”… With a wave of the hand… LMAO…
Personally I’m glad Trump was elected because it’s showing that the DOJ and FBI are corrupt. These are institutions we should have trust in and now that trust is shaken. We know the Hillary investigation was led by a Trump hating tool Peter Strzok. He then was involved initially with Mueller before being re-assigned elsewhere for his bias. Now he’s fired. I applaud that move. These agents are supposed to be unbiased. Whatever happened to true justice? Then there’s the dossier funded by the DNC that kicked off this whole Russia investigation. These people are desperate and it’s pathetic. Cohen pled down to what he did because his taxi business was fraudulent and he was going to see significant time in jail. What he pled down to isn’t necessarily based on any facts. It’s a smear campaign. Trump was on TV in the last 24 hours stating that campaign funds were not used. And good luck proving paying those women was in an attempt to sway the campaign or just keep it out of his wife’s ear… The audio with Billy Bush was an attempt to sway the campaign. Gee, I wonder where that came from. The handful of women who came forward, some from the 1980’s claimed Trump sexually assaulted them. Gee, I’m sure Hillary’s campaign had nothing to do with that. Did those things stop Trump from being elected? No. So please tell me how paying these two women swayed the election if these other things didn’t…. In the end Hillary sucked as a candidate and had no message. Stop trying to stretch things that can’t be stretched any further. That is what insane people do.
Darrin, that's multiple times you have said you like/admire/forgive Trump because you got a pay-off in your 401K. I guess we know where you stand on hush money....
Folks are in defense mode, tomes are getting quite wordy this morning :>)
Let's go total opinion --- IMO ---- let's start with a theoretical landscape made up of:
- those who pay fealty to their King, got a few of them here....
- those who hold their nose, support the King, but think he smells....got a couple here
- those who hate the guy, some always have, some based on this experience, got a couple here too.
- a Congress of the same sorts, but mostly serfs and silent nose-holders supporting the King and now terribly afraid of Trumpian backlash and/or massive pre-election disruptions -- so basically stay the course, don't rock the boat.
- Mueller playing the role of super cop, but respecting the Office of the President and the difficulty of indicting due to Constitutional crisis, so unwilling to tip his hand as to actual crimes if he can avoid it, I think he just wants Trump to go Nixon so he keeps offering hints, shots across the bow
- Trump believing he is above it all, above the law, above our time-honored institutions, smarter than all, but most important ---- able to come back from any downfall, the alpha-Lazarus. He never stops swinging because he knows he can come back from anything.
If you look at the actions befalling Trump, who is to say that most of it is not orchestrated by Mueller who is attempting, via shots across the bow, to sway the nose-holders in the public, but more importantly Congress, to realize the stink is rising. The Cohen deal is brilliant. First Mueller throws it over the wall to a place Trump can not pardon. Worse yet, while Trump is walled off, there is a hole where Mueller automatically gets all the info he needs from Cohen without Trump knowing what he got. Trump, walled off, resorts to his typical response for defectors and totally pisses his top soldier Cohen off. That's just plain old brilliance on Mueller's part outplaying Trump on every move.
The Russian indictments on the eve of Helsinki, another brilliant stroke that took Trump off-center where he performed like a loon during his Helsinki and surround moments.
Now he's got Trump running to FOX to make such outlandish statements that even FOX questioned some. Trump is back to the 1am and beyond ALL CAPS looney-tweets again too. Really knocked off-center by a situation spinning out of his control.
That's the landscape IMO and Mueller will not indict Trump until he has no choice; we are waiting for Congressional nose holders to unclench and unleash their disgust. Ditto with the public, not sure whether the Cohen pleas will do that but while other Mueller shots have been across the bow, this one hit --- only question is above or below the water line.
We are beyond the law; we are waiting for enough votes to impeach, which, as we all know, is not about the law. It's a popularity contest to see if you're voted on or off the island. Trump and Giuliani have been there for over a month taking the fight to public opinion looking for supporters to show their fealty to the King and force those waverers to take a deep breadth and clinch those noses harder.
And so it goes, IMO, until a Mueller shot finally hits below the water line, Congress grows a values-spine, and the President is convinced he's better off out than in. Might happen pretty darn quick after November for other similar reasons, but not nose holding....
“already removing the safety features of their weapons, and they won't make the same mistake twice" (NAME THE MOVIE!)
The Hunt for Red (coincidence??) October
"Just look at your 401k"
You must really admire Clinton and Obama then. The Stock Market increased by 225% under Clinton and 150% under Obama. It's only up about 30% under Trump.
"I’m glad Trump was elected because it’s showing that the DOJ and FBI are corrupt." Or that a few people in a huge organization are corrupt or made mistakes. Or that Trump and his supporters are corrupt and totally morally bankrupt, just saying, it's a hypothetical, you know I love ya.........
"that trust is shaken." Only if you believe the King hanging on every word as if a prophet.
Yes, Strzok damaged himself by using the work phone; however, he is allowed to have opinions. But he didn't damage anything else, except in your mind.
"Whatever happened to true justice?" Oh come on, Mueller is a life-long Republican, soldier, patriot who has given his life in service to our country. Trump is a life-long lying narcissist that even uses his own charity foundation as a honey pot. And you know, I think there may be one or two other conservatives in these institutions. While I know you fear the Deep State bogeymen, I ask you why are your guys such wimps not to speak out and nip the terrible Deep State injustices right in the bud.
"Then there’s the dossier funded by the DNC that kicked off this whole Russia investigation." Not a fact in evidence, sorry. More Deep State conspiracy stuff.
"Cohen pled down to what he did because his taxi business was fraudulent and he was going to see significant time in jail. What he pled down to isn’t necessarily based on any facts." Except when it's corroborated by documentation, second sources and the like --- oh darn, that's all there.....
"Trump was on TV in the last 24 hours stating that campaign funds were not used." And that's the guy you believe?
" And good luck proving paying those women was in an attempt to sway the campaign or just keep it out of his wife’s ear…" Good point. Bring on the investigation!!
"The audio with Billy Bush was an attempt to sway the campaign. Gee, I wonder where that came from." Uh, Donald J. Trump's mouth?
" The handful of women who came forward, some from the 1980’s claimed Trump sexually assaulted them. Gee, I’m sure Hillary’s campaign had nothing to do with that." Yeah, Hillary forced Don to boink the babes.
"Did those things stop Trump from being elected?" Sadly no and even worse....
" No. So please tell me how paying these two women swayed the election if these other things didn’t…." Uh, then why did the Don do it? I mean the same thing can be said about protection Melanoma. Why bother, she already knows he boinks anything that move, she didn't leave for all those other things and much, much more.
"In the end Hillary sucked as a candidate and had no message." This is mostly true but has absolutely nothing to do with removing Donald J. Trump from office for high crimes and misdemeanors.
"Stop trying to stretch things that can’t be stretched any further. That is what insane people do." Trump, Ghoulliani, and yourself are perfect example of this, tyvm.....
Enjoy the weather, time to enjoy!
"This is true but Obama's was a filing error and not an outright attempt to conceal, making Obama's a civil regulatory case and Trump's criminal. There is no comparison.
Confirmation bias runs wild.... Obama has a halo, while Trump has horns."
Unlike what Giuliani claims, the truth has no bias.
"If John Edwards isn’t guilty then neither is Trump."
Can't argue with that legal analysis. I think you missed your calling.
"Just look at your 401k"
I guess you're willing to sell out your country for a few thousand bucks.
thats misleading
https://www.macrotrends.net/2481/stock-market-performance-by-president
this data shows 29% but Trump has still seen the largest market gain at the same point in his presidency
https://www.forbes.com/sites/johndorfman/2017/10/30/trump-ranks-sixth-in-stock-market-performance-behind-obama-and-clinton/#5fb63f56644a
Trump has had 9 out of 10 months of positive gains
That's all well and good, skippy... but the other two have already "posted their scores and are sitting in the clubhouse". Trump has to maintain and beat his current pace for the next six years to even come close. With the economy already at full throat, I don't think the growth opportunity is there.
Add the fact that we're at full employment and he's still choosing to run trillion dollar deficits... well, you don't need justintime to tell you how that's going to end.
Even if one claims Obama set the stage; Trump has not screwed it up and the ramp continues.
But you ignore the issues of his debt fueled economy, massive deficits, highest debt ever and increasing trade imbalances.
Plus zero trickle down as meager wage increases outpaced by highest inflation on years.
Note to kids: inflation can be your best friend in that you are in the best position to get yuger % pay increases due to your lower salary, the need to keep pace. Full employment helps to. Good times to push for more money. Older guys; nah, they don’t even talk inflation %% match, its all in $$.
Seems like every time someone makes a statement concerning Trump, the response is about Obama. That alone sounds like an admission of guilt since those who write that don't like Obama, plus 2 wrongs don't make a right.
Also, not everyone who does not like Trump liked Obama either, or Hillary for that fact.
The 401k comments- anything can be propped up- You can make a wet fire look good by throwing gasoline on it for a minute. But you better cook quick cause that fire is not going to last long. It is good for the old goats, they get a bump and cash out quick, the younger ones will have to deal with the aftermath. It's not surprising at all that old goats would like this.
Those who wish to get rid of Trump should be more concerned with who is going to replace him. The democrats need to find a good candidate themselves-that in itself is proving to be very difficult.
you believe anything he says? lol
look at all his contradictions = a liar. he says one issue/statement on both sides of the coin. so which way was and is it? can't trust him for s--t.
well logically Trump can only be compared to other presidents - Obama was his predecessor - how do you arrive at admission of guilt?
"The Hunt for Red (coincidence??) October"
DING DING DING DING DING!
"Unlike what Giuliani claims, the truth has no bias."
What truth? Who's truth? Where you go wrong is in thinking that YOUR truth is THE truth. I agree that THE truth has no bias... but truth, like everything, applied to personal convictions/emotions/bias, becomes not-truth.
So CNN tells the truth but Fox does not? Obama told the truth but Trump does not? Because this has certainly been your stance in this entire thread... and to not see the ridiculous bias of that line of thought is telling.
Most of what he says is not accurate, aka 'the truth'. he says what gets him out of things that he gets himself into! if it was the truth of actuality, he wouldn't flip the coin ever-so-often to get him out of being guilty. don't you see this? Fox Omits things freaking "tweeted" by him.
I listen with my ears. you can't have it and play it both ways ----- forever!
I respect opinions given by everyone else here but I wouldn't take a president if he committed a crime willfully no matter how good is my 401k. Trump says he shouldn't be impeached because of economy. If I were him and If I know I have done nothing wrong, I wouldn't even talk like him on the mueller investigation. Trump talking about various things related to comey and cohen has led him into trouble. He only said it on TV that comey was fired because russia investigation was becoming too much over the head and when asked on TV again about cohen's payment,he said he does not know anything and tells everyone to ask his lawyer cohen
Look at the bright side, no one is talking about the Russians anymore!
And we have a corroborating witness.
Mueller has Trump pretty much unhinged; its going to get frisky for a bit. Like the seven stages of grief, Trump is nudging towards the inevitable course of self awareness for the survival of his family amd company.
Shall we tee up Pence or too soon yet ;-)
"What truth? Who's truth? Where you go wrong is in thinking that YOUR truth is THE truth. I agree that THE truth has no bias... but truth, like everything, applied to personal convictions/emotions/bias, becomes not-truth."
Rudy, is that you?
Truth is truth and facts are facts. People can have a version of a story but there is only one truth supported by EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE.
Here's one: Trump is an unindicted co-conspirator in a criminal case. Obama never was. These are unbiased facts supported with evidence from the Federal Election Commission (Obama) and the Southern District of New York (Trump) . It's not bias when the facts don't support your guy. It's just the TRUTH.
Goeagles until they show the paper trail that proves the case I'll take it with a grain of salt. You libtards are just looking for any reason to get rid of this guy. For now he says the money came from his own funds. No campaign violation and you can’t prove he did it to sway the campaign unless there’s something other than Cohen’s word. The Jurors on Manaforts case pretty much discounted his associates testimony. The counts he got convicted on were based on actual evidence.
"What truth? Who's truth? Where you go wrong is in thinking that YOUR truth is THE truth. I agree that THE truth has no bias... but truth, like everything, applied to personal convictions/emotions/bias, becomes not-truth." Rudy, is that you?
WTF, times 4000+ !! it's getting crazier as the months and mouthpieces go on. is he crazy? some psychiatrists on TV actually think so. get a load of that! the more he talks, the more he sticks his own foot in his own big contradicting mouth. (maybe that's a good thing for most in the end. 8-D
One of the Majority - these days.
"Truth is truth and facts are facts. People can have a version of a story but there is only one truth supported by EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE. "
I agree, so let us know when you want to start using FACTS and EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE to support your position. ;)
" It's not bias when the facts don't support your guy. It's just the TRUTH."
You keep saying it, but I do not think it means what you think it means. Especially judging from your comment:
"Trump is an unindicted co-conspirator in a criminal case."
That's what DEMOCRATS have labeled Trump, with no proof or "truth", in an effort to forestall the Kavanaugh hearings.
I tell you what: if Trump is indicted, he will be an indicted ALLEGED co-conspirator. THAT is the ACTUAL truth, not the truth you are praying for, not the truth based on your assumed guilt of Trump. Actual, real, verifiable truth. Not opinion. So when that happens, THEN you & the democrats will have actual ammo. Until then, it is NOT truth, it is, as I have illustrated, wishful thinking, opinion, and slander politics as usual.
But right now, they'll use any port in a storm....
The editor for the National Enquirer is being offered immunity now in exchange for testimony. This is just silly at this point... They're trying to take down a President for paying women he MAY have had affairs with before he was in office... That goes to show the Russia investigation was bullsh*t... If anyone thinks this is worth impeaching a President over, they need medication...
Remember a certain big blue dress with a little white stain? This is definitely bigger than that...
Really how so? Cuz Clinton banged her in the oval office then lied and perjured himself. Nice try. It isn't.
Put Trump under oath. How many nanoseconds will it take before he perjures himself for the first time?
Metsman:
Trump: I know nothing about that woman.
Trump: I know nothing about that payment.
Trump: He made that payment without me knowing
Trump: I made that payment.
Trump: That payment wasn't in relation to the election
Cohen: Trump directed me to pay these women
National Enquirer CEO could be questioned under oath and can be subpaeoned but we don't what was discussed between Pecker' lawyers and NY prosecutors after Cohen claimed Pecker was also involved in the payoff scheme.
So,what goes around,comes around- KARMA
They're trying to go after a sitting president for women he potentially slept with years before he was president. How do you not see how stupid that is... That's like me telling you that you can't do your job because you banged some chick when you were younger. Like they did with John Edwards, they have to prove where the money came from and his intent. They couldn’t prove it was anything more than hiding it from his wife. So please just stop already. You just don’t like the guy and are disgruntled and want him gone.
Metsman,
Libtard??? Classy.
Did I say anything about getting rid of him? I'm not getting ahead of myself but merely pointing out facts. If Trump weren't president, he'd be indicted along with Cohen. Would I love to see him go? Of course, he's unfit for the office and an embarrassment but I know the political reality that the majority of Republicans are more interested in power than principle and that a sitting president won't be formally indicted.
Nonetheless, things have really turned against Trump this week and in the grand scheme of potential problems for him, the Cohen and Manafort issues are small potatoes. It's what they have to say to Mueller that keeps Trump up at night. In the near future, Mueller's report will come out and the Dems will win the House and have subpoena power. When the truth is revealed, the political pressure will be so great that impeachment is the only option. Do I know this for certain? No but I'm not blind.
You're ridiculous, JR. I guess it must be another federal candidate that Cohen has on tape.
Metsman, how do you not see that a sitting President with secrets to hide that can cause him to be compromised by others IS a BIG problem?
Yeah Mets, a guy lied about having sex with a girl. How unAmerican of him. And he did in on the job (of course, he works 24x7....) I guess Ken Starr's investigation was based solely on sperm. Was that the Special Investigator's charter?
But I love: "They're trying to take down a President for paying women he MAY have had affairs with before he was in office... That goes to show the Russia investigation was bullsh*t..." First ---- MAY --- in caps --- wow, you are a grain-of-salt guy. Even Melanoma laughs at that one....
That's some logic you gots there Mets: Pres has extramarital sex, a lot of it, and therefore --- no Russian involvement. I think the NRA is trying to make the same claim...…"look, we stick our guns in American women only, lots of them, and therefore, no Russians...." Makes sense to me but I suggest you stay faithful Mets, you're terrible at the cover up :>)
We could care less what Don does to Melania and his family. In this scandal, we are trying to take the President down as an unindicted co-conspirator to Cohen who testified, under solemn oath, with a money trail and documentation, that Donald J. Trump directed him to commit the crime of making cash money payments to two different women for the main purpose of influencing the Presidential election.
Period. This appears to be a crime accepted by the prosecution, defense, and judge.
Question: if Cohen's payments are a crime and Donald J. Trump knew about said crime before it happened, directed Cohen to make the illegal payments, and then reimbursed Cohen for his criminal payments, isn't Donald J. Trump a co-conspirator to the crime?
I mean is the guy who plans the bank job, directs the participants, supplies the money, but does not appear at the job; isn't he as guilty as the on-site perpetrators?
So I think you need to say that Cohen's guilty plea is Fake Law......Good luck.
And now there is another co-conspirator getting immunity for "flipping" Same story as Cohen, different angle, adds The National Enquirer not only taking a pivotal role but also putting a "catch and kill" program together with Cohen and Trump starting just after he announced his candidacy in mid 2015. Given Pecker has just dumped on his own company as allowing Cohen to edit all Trump stories, pretty sure he traded immunity at the bankruptcy of his own company. That's guilty......
Yeah, let's rush to put Trump's guy on SCOTUS just before SCOTUS rules on Trump. That's a prudent plan.
Metsman, this has NOTHING to do with who he slept with, or when. Why are you not at all troubled by the constant lies he's told since taking the oath of office? WHILE he's been POTUS.
First, he knew nothing about the woman (women). Then, on tape, aboard Air Force One, he knew nothing about the woman or the payment. Then, after Rudy shoots from the hip....he did know about the payment. Then the tape surfaces where he discusses how the payments are to be made.....he did authorize the payments but not from campaign funds.
I just don't understand how the non-stop lying, lying, lying, lying, lying while he's the POTUS, about things large and small don't bother you.
Please explain, without using the names CLINTON or OBAMA, why this constant prevarication is okay with you.
First off you can't say don't use Clinton or Obama because that's just it they all lie they're politicians. And who are any of you kidding... you'd lie to protect yourself from being found out about an affair. Nice try...
WHO CARES ABOUT THESE WOMEN.... My god you all that are fixated on this are ridiculous. I want to see actual crimes. You know the ones that had Russia involved. The reason this investigation was put in place. This witch hunt makes the US look weak. This stupid investigation is nothing but a ploy to influence the midterms. You want to talk about Russian interference... This kind of garbage is what influences elections.
I think The National Enquirer Guy adds new perspective to the case. Apparently he was at many a meeting, noticeable because whenever he did not appear, Trump would say: "We have 20 white guys in this room but no Pecker....." ba dum bump...… Come on, sooner or later we have to laugh at all this.... At least those of us who went through Nixon and Clinton scandals. We can put this together again, without Russia, and even with Mike Pence (wait, is that a small trickle of blood coming from the corner of SD's mouth). Yes, even with Pence he said pensively.
Tell me again how no drama Obama was worse that this? Oh I know, your 401 is swell (as I told Darrin, heck with that, I've been betting on Trump weirdness for far greater gains than riding the 401 train: I'm talking TrumpBuck).... Just dumped my second pass at Soybeans, got a lot going down, but not quite the rebound I hoped for. Looks like the Don is manipulating the market with another round o' tariffs. Oh boy, it's options time!! I never could do this under no drama Obama, very boring.
However at 3,453 days of the bull market, a few on Trump's watch and 8 years on Obama's watch, I guess Trump is the great one. Not. Keep swimming, next scandal any day now. Right after this commercial break.
Metman,
If any tom,dick and harry lied about an affair, it does'nt matter. But when POTUS only admits after being exposed by his lawyer is a YUGE THING. The US president must not be weak with secrets that he can't count how many he has- women,knowing about meeting with russia or hacked emails or any of his financial dealings. American president should not be such a ridiculous fool with so many secret baggages that he is susceptible to blackmail by any foreign country to influence policies-trade,diplomacy or any other sector in international relations
Oh so you mean Hillary wasn't qualified to be President. Ok thanks... Hypocrite....
“First off you can't say don't use Clinton or Obama because that's just it they all lie they're politicians.”
Not sure about others but that’s always been an issue for me. Step back and look at how these political conversations *always* go (think “big picture) : The Republicrat in power always agitates and accuses the Republicrat not in power, and vice versa.
The issue isn’t that they’ve done anything wrong, because they ALL have. It’s that the roles of Repub and Licrat flip flop so easily and repeatedly that it can’t be any more obvious that the ENTIRETY of duopoly politics must mandate this insane behavior by EVERYONE. And when I say insane I really mean it because year after year, election after election, it’s ALWAYS THE SAME THING!
So surely this is as obvious to everyone as it is to me? I mean, strip away the titles and the behavior, accusations, disbelief, etc are always exactly the same!
Metsman,
People here are trying to be nice and decent in debating with you. If you still want to be rude and good luck being the MAD-MAN in HL
Give it a break Yale ---- personal is personal. I believe infidelity is not a crime and if blackmail was an issue, the world would be blackmailed.
The crime is as I stated above, for this scandal.
Certainly there are more scandals to follow if past is prologue to the future. I mean, how many days, how many scandals, how many lawsuits?
Do we even remember this case: https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/25/politics/emoluments-case-donald-trump-washington-dc/index.html
Sure, any nutcase can file a case but this is DC and Maryland in Federal Court. This guy is so deep in swamp mud that we forget the myriad of pending cases that would sink any other President.
I do give him credit as a juggler.
Metsman,
You do realize this is a nation that believes in the rule of law, right? You might do better in Saudi Arabia.
I explained myself clearly in the best reasonable way I can. Everyone knows who is the hypocrite here MAD-MAN!
"not the truth you are praying for, not the truth based on your assumed guilt of Trump. Actual, real, verifiable truth. Not opinion. So when that happens, THEN you & the democrats will have actual ammo."
I don't need to pray for truth. The facts are what they are. I never said he was guilty. It is not biased to point out that the president has been implicated in a crime. Again, reading comprehension is becoming an issue with you.
"Put Trump under oath. How many nanoseconds will it take before he perjures himself for the first time?"
That would indeed be scary.
"You're ridiculous, JR. I guess it must be another federal candidate that Cohen has on tape."
Until we hear the tape, it doesn't exist, also until we hear it, there's no proof of any condemning evidence. Just like Omarosa. Wishful thinking (that may prove to be true... but UNTIL it's proven true, it's not.)
As for "you can't use Obama or Hillary as examples".... WTH happened for 8 YEARS when Obama was president? It's Bush's fault! Look what Bush left him with! BUSH BUSH BUSH BUSH. The only thing that's been worse than has been RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA.
Now.. FFWD to if Trump gets impeached.
1) do you think a republican congress will actually remove him, when a republican congress didn't remove democrat Clinton? For not only perjury under oath, but lying to the American people's faces on live television, as well as obstruction of justice?
(not forgetting the other 2 impeachment charges that didn't make it out of the house:
a second perjury charge and a charge of abuse of power.)
2) if they do remove him, you get Pence... who I bet my bottom dollar will not only continue the Trump agenda, but will actually go at it even harder. Have fun with that. At least you won't have to deal with the twitter nonsense LOL
" It is not biased to point out that the president has been implicated in a crime. Again, reading comprehension is becoming an issue with you."
Nice try. YOU said "unindicted co-conspirator", which BTW is an oxymoron. He can't be a co-conspirator until proven guilty of such. I know it's a little complicated for you, so think slowly and you'll figure it out.
As far as "implicated in a crime", how many rapes and sexual assaults was Bill Clinton "implicated" in again?
Goeagles rule of law... yea.... if that were the case Hillary would be in jail. Any one of us would be in jail if we did what she did. Nice try...
Stymie is the madman. Nice try...
BTW, what happened to "Russia Russia Russia"??? You guys finally give up on that one? No joy? You smell blood in the water over Cohen and drop the "Russia collusion" like a hot potato? LOL Hey, anything to get the guy out of office, right? ANYTHING. I'm actually surprised some left-wing wackjob hasn't tried to assassinate him yet, a la the Congressional baseball game shooting...
In my crystal ball:
Democrats take House.
House forces release of tRUMP’s tax returns.
Huuuuge money laundering and influence peddling
crime family exposed.
Jerome “ Jowls” tRUPM has a phony “ health episode” and resigns.
Curtain falls.
History is written.
tRUMP brand is relegated to trash heap.
No more tRUMP.
Back to watching Suprano’s reruns.
Oh yeah, tRUMP develops bleeding ulcers yet still lives to the age of 104.
Metsman.
Keep doing what you’re doing with the personal emails and YOU may be in jail .
Ah yes, more pretzel logic; there is no rule of law because Hillary is not in jail.
Almost as silly as the “all things are the same” or “they all lie, Trump is just another politician.”
That one is especially rich given why you voted for him.
Aww poor slimey…
SD you shoot down what your side does on a daily basis but want to go after the other side for every little thing. Stop making me laugh...
Hey Jeff Rep.
“Big wheel keep on turnin’....”
Russia investigation keeps moving forward, steady relentlessly and on track ...to the truth.
Scary isn’t it?
Not that the truth matters
There is no truth, right?
"Nice try. YOU said "unindicted co-conspirator", which BTW is an oxymoron. He can't be a co-conspirator until proven guilty of such. I know it's a little complicated for you, so think slowly and you'll figure it out."
Unindicted co conspirator
Definition:
An unindicted co-conspirator is a person who is identified by a law enforcement officer to have engaged in a conspiracy, but who is not charged in the indictment charging that person’s fellow conspirators. Prosecutors may name persons as unindicted co-conspirators for: grants of immunity, pragmatic considerations, and evidentiary concerns. The term unindicted co-conspirator was familiarized in 1974.
Looks like poor JR got confused. Reading comprehension is difficult for you. Do you know what unindicted means? Do you know you can be called this and not be found guilty? Do you know what an allegation is? Do you know Richard Nixon was called this because prosecutors didn't want to indict the president? Maybe if you weren't such a condescending blowhard, I would have let this one go. Lightweight.
Hey Stymie,
"There is no truth, right?"
Not until it's proven there isn't. Time will tell. If it's actually proven, you won't see me fighting and spinning truth like your side has been doing for 18 months... I will not resemble you and your side.
So, Goeagles, I guess that makes you an undicted liar, right? I'm "implicating" you in lying on this forum, so I guess than means you're liar. Where there's smoke there's fire, right? "Unindicted" means "just a matter of time", right?
I would implicate you as being an Eagles fan, but that would be even worse. ;)
(no offense, Calico lol)
"Maybe if you weren't such a condescending blowhard"
That's rich coming from you. Oh but wait, the rich are evil, right? I don't want to "implicate" you as being rich... that would be THREE implications in the last 2 posts alone!! OMG!!! Call the press!!!!
Such a load of pearl clutching bull shhhh!
Political office holders....L-l-l-li--ieeeee!? They have affairs?! Eeeeeek!
Find me a politician and past president who isn't corrupt. That would be more of a miracle than the baby Jesus.
Again kb, when I you want to change the HL convention for public figures, I am all in. Until then, I abide by the name calling differentiation tween public and private.
Remember I never called the Trump’s anything except exactly what you did to the Obamas for over a decade now and the Clintons for longer
Gee, I like this “its all the same” game. Republicrats ho!
Mets; once again, not a clue what you mean, but I hope you aren’t daring to call me “slimey.”
Ntw, as Trump unravels it will get better and better. His FOX interview is a hoot as he explains the law ala “Law and Order.”
It’s goverance at a MSTV education level.
“I went to the best schools, Reality TVU.”
Nice try, while I despised the Clinton's and Obama (not Michelle) I did not resort to the type of name calling you have. No need to be calling the First Lady names who has done nothing related to this investigation.
Looks like JR doesn't have a retort of any substance because he didn't know what "unindicted co conspirator" meant. He was just so sure of himself for some time there with his glib remarks. Poor guy, looks so silly.
I was just stating the facts. I have consistently disclosed when I was giving opinion or making predictions because I didn't have all the information. Just because Trump is involved in a criminal matter doesn't make the people that discuss that fact inherently biased.
Sorry kb, replace you with youse all. I can’t do one on one name calling comparisons, too tedious. And we are all the same, either side, ask JIT. His fav is Republicrat. Covers all sins which, incidently are all the same, all eight of them.
Can someone open a new thread or teach me to auto scroll to end of page on an iphone. I’m getting screen ruts :-).
" I have consistently disclosed when I was giving opinion or making predictions because I didn't have all the information"
You have not. But that's ok, your side CAN'T - because it's ALL conjecture and hearsay at this point. But by all means, carry on.
"I was just stating the facts."
"co-conspirator" is not yet a fact. While "unindicted" is- YOU are "unidicted." I am "unindicted." EVERYONE HERE is "unindicted" lol. Nice try at creating the narrative out of whole cloth tho. "Unindicted co-conspirator" is nothing but a soundbite to plant a seed for people to think "he's guilty- it's just a matter of time." and it may be. Or may NOT be. But what it ISN'T is a fact. Keep trying.
I'm "implicating" you again, GE
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/eagles-fans-are-the-absolute-worst-and-here-are-9-times-they-proved-it/
SD, add a bookmark for any webpage. Then go to bookmarks and edit it. I called mine “End”, then replace the web page text with this java script:
javascript:scroll(0,document.getElementsByTagName('body')%5B0%5D.scrollHeight);
Then just click that bookmark and it will go to the end of the current web page.
We can try this again. I understand you have reading comprehension issues so I'll try to be patient and hope you won't be so obtuse. Try it more slowly? Please follow the logic.
Unindicted co conspirator:
An unindicted co-conspirator is a person who is identified by a law enforcement officer to have engaged in a conspiracy, but WHO IS NOT CHARGED IN THE INDICTMENT CHARGING THAT PERSON'S FELLOW CONSPIRATORS. Prosecutors may name persons as unindicted co-conspirators for: grants of immunity, pragmatic considerations, and evidentiary concerns. The term unindicted co-conspirator was familiarized in 1974.
The Cohen Plea Agreement describes the co conspirator as "Individual 1" The real name is not used because he/she is not indicted, hence unindicted.
VERBATIM FROM THE COHEN PLEA AGREEMENT:
"In or about January 2017, Cohen left the Company and began holding himself out as the 'personal attorney' to Individual-1, who at that point had become the President of the United States."
Who became President of the United States in January 2017? Who is the only person that could be Individual-1?
This is a really bad night for you, JR. Proven wrong twice.
They're going to jail and being charged all around him. I wonder if the head honcho is part of these conspiracies......................what do you think?!
"This is a really bad night for you, JR. Proven wrong twice."
Using your definition of "truth", I guess so ;)
Now for the actual facts:
" Investigators led by District Attorney Cyrus R. Vance Jr. would look at how the company accounted for its reimbursement to Cohen for the $130,000 he paid to Stormy Daniels, who claims to have had an affair with President Trump, the New York Times reported. Two officials with knowledge of the matter told the Times that the possible action was still in its early stages and no decision has been made on whether the state investigators will go after the Trump Organization. "
Now that we know the current actual facts, NOW we can start "supposing":
If Trump was stupid enough to use campaign funds to pay off Daniels (paying Cohen back), he's could be in trouble. If he used personal funds, this isn't going anywhere.
If Cohen paid Daniels with HIS money, then Trump hired Cohen and "paid him back" with extra salary (from campaign funds), there might be something there, but I think you will all find out that's pretty thin... unless Cohen has Trump on tape actually saying it.
But, as usual, I will wait to hear actual FACTS before making sweeping predictions about the end of the Trump presidency, or the coming "blue wave", or any other non-fact-based wishful thinking.
I figure if Clintons can get away with everything they've gotten away with over all these years, this is pretty small potatoes by comparison. And continuing to use Nixon as a comparative is silly- the world was different back then; that was a world before sitting presidents deposited bodily fluids on interns in the oval office and then lied about it under oath and on national television. But I understand all the drooling from the left; that's what happens when rabid hatred overtakes critical thinking.
It will be what it will be; but it ain't nothing... yet.
" Investigators led by District Attorney Cyrus R. Vance Jr. would look at how the company accounted for its reimbursement to Cohen for the $130,000 he paid to Stormy Daniels, who claims to have had an affair with President Trump, the New York Times reported. Two officials with knowledge of the matter told the Times that the possible action was still in its early stages and no decision has been made on whether the state investigators will go after the Trump Organization. "
This is a reference to whether the Manhattan D.A. will go after the Trump Organization under New York state law, not the Federal case in which Cohen pleaded guilty and Trump has been named as an unindicted co conspirator. Don't muddy the waters, Rudy. You're either confused or just bending the facts to fit your narrative.
"If Trump was stupid enough to use campaign funds to pay off Daniels (paying Cohen back), he's could be in trouble. If he used personal funds, this isn't going anywhere. If Cohen paid Daniels with HIS money, then Trump hired Cohen and "paid him back" with extra salary (from campaign funds), there might be something there, "
The problem is that even if Trump used personal funds or the second scenario you describe which is pretty close to what's in Cohen's plea agreement, it's an in kind campaign donation, meant to influence the results of the election, and he concealed it. Trump put himself in legal jeopardy with that action. Is he guilty yet? No. Is it biased to state this? No.
But, as usual, I will wait to hear actual FACTS before making sweeping predictions about the end of the Trump presidency, or the coming "blue wave", or any other non-fact-based wishful thinking.
Who's making predictions in this discussion? If a person makes the prediction of a blue wave caused by Trump's legal issues, that's a fact based prediction. It may not come to fruition but it is fact based. Just because it isn't on Fox News doesn't mean it's not real.
"I figure if Clintons can get away with everything they've gotten away with over all these years, this is pretty small potatoes by comparison. And continuing to use Nixon as a comparative is silly- the world was different back then; that was a world before sitting presidents deposited bodily fluids on interns in the oval office and then lied about it under oath and on national television. But I understand all the drooling from the left; that's what happens when rabid hatred overtakes critical thinking."
This is all "whataboutism". Stick to the subject. The Nixon reference was just that he was named as an "unindicted co conspirator". That's it. You're taking it to the next step. When involved in a cult of personality, blind allegiance overtakes critical thinking.
" Now that we know the current actual facts, NOW we can start "supposing" he says, quoting FOX quoting the NYT. Hmmmm, a double MSM chain of "truth" because it supports JR's bias.....Interesting. Actually, none of JR's "IMO's" are in the story, which says:
"The organization reportedly recorded the reimbursements to Cohen as a legal expense, but the former Trump attorney admitted Tuesday that he used the money to ensure the adult-film actress didn’t reveal the affair she allededly had with then-candidate Trump during the 2016 presidential election."
"According to prosecutors, the reimbursement payments were phony legal invoices that were connected to a nonexistent retainer agreement. Cohen reportedly issued sham monthly invoices for $35,000 in “pursuant to retainer agreement.”
The former Trump attorney, who pleaded guilty to federal campaign finance charges, didn’t actually do any legal work concerning the issue.
“On its face, it certainly would be problematic,” one official familiar with the district attorney’s office review told the Times, adding that such reimbursement scheme could be considered a felony under state law."
"But a state investigation is likely to face obstacles and delays due to other open inquiries related to Trump and his associates, including the federal investigation into Cohen, the probe by the special counsel Robert Mueller, and a lawsuit that the state attorney general brought against the Trump Foundation."
IOW, this is one possible case, a state felony, and a fairly small jail time one, in a slew of active cases as well as other cases including the possibility of indicting the President for campaign finance violations, in this case, a federal felony. Just another potential case, does not erase Cohen's fessing up to Trump himself as an unindicted co-conspirator in a federal felony violation.
So on one hand there's the Cohen Conspiracy which may involve Trump. There's also the Trump Organization's role in the payments which is where your current quotes are coming from. Same crime, different criminals in the conspiracy.
More critical is Pecker's flip for immunity. That's immunity for a guy they caught cold with the smoking gun in a crime that the President could not pardon. Why would prosecutors leave him off the hook and for what information? That's not a deal, that's a done deal, and that has got to be real risk for your King.
Between all of this, you have Trump, Trump's family, all now at legal risk, big time.
And rumor has it there's 30,000 catch-n-kill stories in that safe. If the Russians can get them, we would like to see them. Release the contents of the safe Don. Might as well put the tax returns in them. You know the state has all of this, you know Mueller has all of this, if it's germane to his case.
With a single juror hanging the 10 counts for Manafort, "Prosecutors have until Aug. 29 to notify the judge if they are going to retry Manafort on those counts."
It will be interesting to see what they do with this given Manafort's other trial probably won't have "the Trump effect" from the bully pulpit to sway potential jurors. For some insane reason, Manafort lawyers agreed to a DC trial. Good luck finding a Trump supporter there.
Manafort's second trial will essentially give him life. I will be mightily impressed if Manafort pulls a G. Gordon Liddy here. Don't really think he's got the stuff, but then again, he agreed to DC trial, so who knows what the heck is going on there.
So it will be interesting to see what the prosecutors will do here in the refile of charges in that the odds are on conviction if they refile. I am pretty confident they can plug the hole that this juror saw to hang the first trial. Yet with the second trial probably getting life, perhaps they will choose to save us taxpayers the money to pile on from the first case refile.
Goeagles the John Edwards case couldn't prove if he paid his mistress off to sway results or to hide it from his wife. So unless they have a damn good piece of evidence regarding Trump's situation, it isn't going anywhere...
"This is a reference to whether the Manhattan D.A. will go after the Trump Organization under New York state law, not the Federal case in which Cohen pleaded guilty and Trump has been named as an unindicted co conspirator."
Right- because that's the only place FACTS exist yet. "Unindicted co-conspirator" has not come come from any legal source, it came from democrats trying to color public opinion. When I see a news report that the DOJ is "considering pressing charges", THEN we will have facts. You said you like facts, right? Until then, it's all conjecture. You guys are playing a chess game 5 moves ahead, hoping it goes your way.
"Who's making predictions in this discussion?"
from above (and this was just the easiest one to find by scrolling up, there are more):
In my crystal ball:
Democrats take House.
House forces release of tRUMP’s tax returns.
Huuuuge money laundering and influence peddling
crime family exposed.
Jerome “ Jowls” tRUPM has a phony “ health episode” and resigns.
Curtain falls.
History is written.
tRUMP brand is relegated to trash heap.
No more tRUMP.
Back to watching Suprano’s reruns.
Oh yeah, tRUMP develops bleeding ulcers yet still lives to the age of 104.
-Stymie
If you want to talk about "truth", which means REALITY, here's some homework for you:
https://bigthink.com/stephen-johnson/unindicted-co-conspirator-what-president-trumps-new-label-means
So, when the INDICTMENT comes down, THEN we can talk.
"With a single juror hanging the 10 counts for Manafort, "Prosecutors have until Aug. 29 to notify the judge if they are going to retry Manafort on those counts.""
They should NOT refile charges on those counts. Save them for State courts in the event Trump tries to pardon this scumbag. The mistrial works in the prosecutors favor in this case.
The orgastic frenzy of you guys wishing and hoping for trumps downfall is as funny as the day is long. Even top level Dem don want to impeach him, but keep smoking that impeachment weed. You're all highe than kites and lashing out is feeding frenzy
Even CBS pollsters are saying they don't see a blue wave coming, they see the Republicans holding onto the house this midterm.
This is from Townhall :
CBS News Pollster: I Don't Think We'll See A Blue Wave
"We’ve been hearing it for months: the blue wave is coming. The Democrats are going to retake the House. The Democratic ballot advantage is significant. Well, if that does occur, a blue wave, congressional Democrats will move to impeach President Trump on bogus charges. There is still zero evidence to suggest the president’s campaign colluded with the Russians. Oh, what about campaign finance? The Obama campaign was fined for violations. Did he ever face impeachment charges? It’ll be a circus, a pervasive parade of nonsense, hyperbole, and liberal whining the likes of which we’ve never seen. And we’ve seen a lot of tantrums since Hillary Clinton’s epic loss in 2016. "
"The media overreach is another issue. For even the most skeptical Republican, the media overreaction has caused them to move closer to the Trump camp. The man won the election. Give him room to govern. He’s not bringing about the next apocalypse. He’s actually lifting the economy to new heights. We’re at four percent economic growth, U.S. worker pay is at its highest in 10 years, the U.S. has regained its position as the world’s most competitive economy, three million news jobs, over three million workers receiving bonus checks averaging $1,000 or more, the highest consumer and small business confidence numbers in years, and the lowest unemployment rating in 18 years; black unemployment has dropped to historic lows. Donald Trump is a good president. He’s surprised me for the better in almost every major fight. In doing so, the return on investment is a booming economy. That’s fine by me. And for people, especially within the GOP who are still put off by his rhetoric or how he says things on Twitter, just get the hell out. Go re-register for the Democratic Party because if you still don’t get it, you’re in a bubble denser than that of Hillary-land. "
Matt Vespa
GE, here's some more enjoyable reading for you, from (no doubt) your favorite news source: CNN:
"And so, if Cohen admitted he broke the law and testified that he did it at the direction of the President then, well, isn't Trump in deep trouble?
Probably not. And the reason is that special counsel Robert Mueller's office has apparently signaled to the President's legal team that they will abide by longstanding Justice Department regulations that stipulate that a sitting President can't be indicted. "All they get to do is write a report," Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani told CNN's Dana Bash in May. "They can't indict. At least they acknowledged that to us after some battling, they acknowledged that to us."
"To be clear: There is a debate in the legal community about the prohibition on indicting a sitting president, but it seems unlikely Mueller would push for an indictment as a direct result of his investigation.
The more likely threat to Trump -- and this is as true following the Cohen plea deal and Paul Manafort's conviction as it was a week ago -- is the possibility that the House takes up articles of impeachment against him."
SO, that brings us back to a republican-controlled House bringing him up on impeachment charges, and then a republican-controlled senate finding him guilty. As I said, a republican- controlled congress didn't even impeach Bill Clinton, so... fat chance. Unless the timing of all of this could be handled to affect the november elections, giving control of BOTH houses to the democrats... but that's alot of IFs.
Good luck with your "blue wave."
read the entire article:
https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/22/politics/donald-trump-impeachment-indictment/index.html
I think you are right that the Edwards case will feature prominently should Donald J. Trump be indicted.
The Edwards case started when Edwards rich buddy made a hush payment and hinged on whether the payments political or personal with Edwards arguing they were to protect the information from his wife, not the public therefore personal not political. Apparently the jury bought that his buddy was making a deal to protect his marriage, not win the election; the prosecution failed to make it's case. Let's face it, Elizabeth's cancer made the concept of protecting the marriage much more believable I would surmise.
Here we start with what Cohen said:
Used his money to make “hush” payment Daniels 10/2016. A second payment, in collaboration with Pecker, to McDougal 8/2016. That's two incidences and two collaborators.
Then Cohen said “in coordination with and at the direction of a candidate for federal office,” He then said he did it "for the principal purpose of influencing the election.” for president in 2016. That's a yuge difference. No one said that in the Edwards case.
He did this under perjury charges possibility, the prosecutors have to fess up if they think he is lying, and so his risk for lying is most severe.
Most of the Edwards payments were made in the calendar year before the election, one made after he had dropped out made his story more believable. Trump's payments were a month or two before the election and after the Access Hollywood debacle almost derailed the campaign.
Edwards basically had no witnesses to a crime, one was dead and the other too old to testify. Cohen has provided a list of witnesses a mile long and one has already gained immunity --- that's full immunity BEFORE his information is even used. Pecker had already confirmed payments and Trump's full knowledge of the deals.
So I agree if they indict, it is a trial, anything can happen. And the Edwards case will be used for defense, no doubt. But they are not the same and assuming Edwards means Trump is not potentially guilty would be a disservice to your King who looks a heck of a lot more guilty that Edwards did at this juncture of a possible case.
More likely is that everyone will do everything in their powers not to indict a sitting President, before or after office. Hopefully, another solution will reveal itself.
Remember, if it's Friday, it's Mueller time and tipping a tall one would be a killer blow at this point in time. Is Mueller ready to Congress-whisper yet? Will he go public? Or will he continue to let it percolate as things seem to be progressing to a rapid boil all in good time. .
"the John Edwards case couldn't prove if he paid his mistress off to sway results or to hide it from his wife. So unless they have a damn good piece of evidence regarding Trump's situation, it isn't going anywhere..."
Cohen's statement as part of the plea deal, made under oath and accepted by the SDNY, states that Trump directed Cohen to make the payment in order to influence the election. The timing of the payment is also problematic for Trump as is the tape of Trump and Cohen discussing the payoff. We do not have all the information yet but it can't be easily dismissed as you would like.
"We do not have all the information yet but it can't be easily dismissed as you would like."
I agree it can't be easily dismissed; the difference is, you are assuming guilt/indictment/impeachment, while we are waiting for the actual facts to support that stance to appear. So far, they haven't. Even CNN says so. You're (you're "side" is) jumping the gun in a foaming-at-the-mouth, rabid frenzy. LOL
GoEagles --- plus Pecker. plus the other witnesses Cohen called out.
"They should NOT refile charges on those counts. Save them for State courts in the event Trump tries to pardon this scumbag. The mistrial works in the prosecutors favor in this case." I agree, however, not a lawyer so don't understand the rules of the game.
If I could, I would refile but have it fall after the second Manafort trial so I could drop the refile after the second conviction. Avoid wasting taxpayer money over a pile on for an old man.
Hate to say it, but in DC he's guilty before he even gets to the court house. On so many levels. 95% Clinton voters. Primarily black. Whites mostly liberal (if I remember, Repubs in VA, Dems in MD/DC. Such a strange move by Man's defense team.
Mueller is just rounding up all the evidence he can now w/o saying why, when, for what. it may be just a matter of the right time.
it's one crazy issue of what was said and/or done after another!!!
JR,
Your article proves nothing because it is already known that DOJ guidelines state that a sitting president cannot be indicted. That's why Trump is an "unindicted co conspirator". This is not news. You're having a really hard time with this concept. Keep Googling.
Steve Bannon is now pushing the narrative that the midterms are crucial in order to save the Trump presidency. Why?
A Dem takeover of the House results in subpoena power and that spells trouble for Trump. No more cover from Trump's allies in the House. All that is needed to impeach is a simple majority. Now you need 2/3 of the Senate. Keep in mind that the Senate is the more moderate body compared to the House. Overwhelming evidence from Mueller, coupled with Trump's new involvement in a criminal matter could free Republican senators to vote for impeachment. There are a lot of moderate Republicans out there that are not part of the Trump cult. Don't be so sure that political party allegiance will keep Trump in the White House. Ask Richard Nixon about that. Yes, this is a prediction but it is plausible and fact based.
"you are assuming guilt/indictment/impeachment, while we are waiting for the actual facts to support that stance to appear."
Other than my last comment in which I specifically state for those with reading issues that it is a prediction, tell me where I assume the president is guilty? Hate to break the news to you that your boy is in trouble. By trying ignore this reality, you're revealing your own bias.
"Hate to break the news to you that your boy is in trouble. "
Talk about "reading comprehension", I never said the possibility didn't exist. But he's not "in trouble" yet. That's your error. I'm willing to wait for ACTUAL trouble, where you are pre-ordaining it.
"By trying ignore this reality, you're revealing your own bias."
I haven't ignored anything, except your CONJECTURE and rabid hope that he's "in trouble." He might be. We are going to find out, won't we? Then we'll KNOW, instead of guessing/hoping.
If Trump was caught on tape actually planning to commit a crime with campaign finance funds, then yes he's in trouble. So far, that remains heresay. And Obama was only fined for campaign finance infractions, so we'll see how the current DOJ and republican-controlled congress "handle" it.
I have said it over and over: the midterm elections will be very telling, not only in who takes actual control of the 2 houses of congress (which has a very large bearing on "how much trouble" Trump might be in), but also a gauge on public opinion... while it is usually customary for the opposite party (in this case, the democrats) to take control of one or both houses, with the atmosphere today (most MSM is known for being left-leaning and trying to influence public opinion), and the Trump Derangement Syndrome running amok.... it might not go the way you think it's going to. We'll see. It's going to be interesting.
November could mean Trump's impeachment, or it could mean the entire matters dies, out of steam, just like "russian collusion." See, I like to deal with ACTUAL reality... in today's political atmosphere, playing the "if...then" game is just a waste of time. ANYTHING can happen (as the 2016 election showed us).
And that's the other error you (and your side) keep making:
I'm not "defending" Trump. I'm not saying he didn't do something. I'm saying until there's real evidence (like a taped conversation) proving it, it doesn't matter if he did it or not. (and even if there is, that doesn't mean anything will come of it, in the end.) I deal in realities, not conjecture. Your error is in ASSUMING I "love the man", and am "ignoring truths", and "defending him to the end" or some such nonsense.
I'm not. I never have. Just because I voted for him over the trainwreck-that-is-HRC does not mean I "believe everything he says" or "think he's a saint" or some other such nonsense. You have fallen into the trap of identity politics: left vs right. White vs black. Right vs wrong. Us vs them. It's a shame, as in reality, most people understand that except for the fringe elements of both sides (let's say, Bannon & Pelosi), there are many shades of grey in-between... at least for those of us who employ critical thinking instead of relying on left-leaning media and emotions (or right-wing talk shows and emotions) to help us make our political analyses.
"Unindicted co-conspirator" has not come from any legal source"
Except Cohen's Plea Deal
The don't specifically name the unindicted but tell me, was there another person elected president in January 2017? Did Cohen work for another federal candidate? Would Trump be indicted if he weren't a sitting president? Could Trump be indicted the day he leaves the presidency? Again, I'm not claiming he's guilty but Trump is implicated in a crime, by Cohen, who was under oath. That looks bad for him. That's all I'm saying. That's FACT. Because you support Trump, you're ignoring what's right in front of you, cherry picking stories parts of news articles, and putting words in my mouth.
Walls are closing in on the crime family occupying the White House.
Karma my friends, Karma...
Yeah and Rick Gates took a plea deal implicating Manafort and the jurors didn't take him seriously. They went off of hard evidence. That's why they didn't get him on every count. Cohen could be lying.
"Yeah and Rick Gates took a plea deal implicating Manafort and the jurors didn't take him seriously. They went off of hard evidence. That's why they didn't get him on every count. Cohen could be lying."
And that is why I'm not saying he's guilty. It doesn't mean I'm going to ignore the reality that Cohen is a problem for Trump. A lot of people connected with this are being granted immunity. That is a FACT.
Uh, juror, not jurors. Jurors voted overwhemingly, just not universally, to covict on 18 counts.
Bets on conviction for refile if they even bother given how guilty for round 2 anyways.
When I see hard evidence I'll take it seriously. But then again Hillary destroyed computers and cell phones and deleted emails to obstruct justice and didn't get indicted on anything so....
Look like Commander Bonespurs will soon have to attend a funeral that nobody wants him to attend and everyone present at hates him.
A day that will be a study in extremes——-
Respect for a patriot that sacrificed
Disdain for a coward that ran and hid
Walls are closing in on the crime family occupying the White House.
Karma my friends, Karma...
No, it's not Karma. Its evidence and people doing their jobs. I also agree with JRepub about Hillary being crooked as well.
The only way to get an honest politician is to elect a 4th grader from Hatchery Hill.
"I never said the possibility didn't exist. But he's not "in trouble" yet. That's your error"
You just don't want to discuss it because it looks bad for Trump. Omission reveals bias. Subtext might be a hard concept for you.
"And Obama was only fined for campaign finance infractions, so we'll see how the current DOJ and republican-controlled congress "handle" it."
You're missing the fact that Obama's infraction wasn't intentional or major. There are allegations, made under oath, that Trump's were serious and intentionally concealed.
"You have fallen into the trap of identity politics: left vs right. White vs black. Right vs wrong. Us vs them."
This is what you have recently written:
You're (you're "side" is) jumping the gun in a foaming-at-the-mouth, rabid frenzy. LOL
You have not. But that's ok, your side CAN'T - because it's ALL conjecture and hearsay at this point. But by all means, carry on.
Looks like you're the one obsessed with "sides" and division. You're missing the point that discussing Trump's problems isn't partisan. That's you're doing.
"there are many shades of grey in-between... at least for those of us who employ critical thinking instead of relying on left-leaning media and emotions (or right-wing talk shows and emotions) to help us make our political analyses. Your error is in ASSUMING I "love the man", and am "ignoring truths", and "defending him to the end" or some such nonsense. "
A simple reading of your comments on this thread alone shows that you are not some moderate, independent thinker but instead a consistent defender of Trump and his right wing policies. Along with reading comprehension issues you're also disingenuous.
Keep paddling that Hillary canoe Mets.....
Trump CFO gets immunity in Cohen case. May explain why Cohen didn't get immunity, this one was already baked....
Do you think that's to get Cohen, smaller fish or something larger....?
Trump CFO was Fred Trump's money man too; he knows where any financial skeletons lie for two Trump generations.
Remember, Mueller gets whatever is pertinent, probably at the speed of light, from any of this whether of value in Cohen case or not.
More important is that we can pretty much say that this Mueller shot is indeed below the water line. The rats are jumping ship.
Hang on kids, could get a little rocky as Trump will totally freak now that the money trails are in his house, in the family. He certainly knows, not that his lawyers have a clue yet, what Mueller knows. And you know how he hates it when people get this close.
Most certainly. They are in the investment mix, that’s public knowledge, and the possibilty of laundered funds is high once they can pinpoint the transactions
However, we may never know as the info is not germane to the Cohen case at this point unless the hush funds came from a Russian honeypot. It may just go into the Mueller vault
that we probably will never see either. Hopefully that is.
Thought you were being cute, didn’t you :-). I’ve got a Russian for all seasons, even the NRA
"You just don't want to discuss it because it looks bad for Trump."
UM, we've been discussing it for DAYS, lol. You CAN read, correct?
But no, I'm not wasting my time discussing "maybes" and "what ifs". Knock yourself out. Just don't have a meltdown when what you want to happen, what you think is going to happen, doesn't. Wouldn't want to have to "implicate" you again- for having TDS.
Over at CBS News, their pollsters and number crunchers are more bearish on the prospect of a blue wave. The series of special election wins Democrats have clinched this cycle mean nothing. The national polls don’t matter, just the ones in the handful of districts, which are being targeted this year. They see this whole thing as a toss up. They can see Democrats gaining 20 seats, but with the GOP remaining in control of the House. So, one of the Big Three (CBS, NBC, and ABC) is saying blue wave could end up being low tide:
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2018/08/23/cbs-pollster-i-dont-think-well-see-a-blue-wave-n2511812?utm_source=thdaily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=nl&newsletterad=&profileid=
"UM, we've been discussing it for DAYS, lol."
Deflection and denial are not discussion.
"I'm not wasting my time discussing "maybes" and "what ifs"
Right. You only do that when the discussion is pro-Trump/conservative: Here's some of your greatest hits from this thread.
"And if it works out, Trump should indeed receive the Nobel for his efforts."
"Maybe if November goes the way I think it's going to, Proud Liberal's head will explode."
"If by October they do not have enough to impeach, (saving it up for an "october surprise") then it will be painfully obvious they are just on a fishing expedition, they should also "shut up"."
"If you REALLY think Roe v Wade is in danger, I've obviously misunderestimated (NOT A WORD) your intellect. The addition of Gorsuch and Kavanaugh (Gorsuch replacing Scalia, very similar... and Kavanaugh replacing Kennedy, who PICKED Kavanaugh himself) isn't going to change Roe v Wade."
And when the discussion makes Trump look bad:
"So what's your opinion on Trump pardoning himself if the Mueller investigation proves that he committed a crime?" JR: How about we stick to things that have ACTUALLY happened instead of hypotheticals?
"We are going to find out, won't we? Then we'll KNOW, instead of guessing/hoping."
Hypocrite.
Goeagles has nothing better to do than spend lots of time scrolling up looking at JR quotes... Can't wait till this nonsense is over and you libtards don't get your way...
Too busy regurgitating what someone else says rather than looking big picture...
Always classy, Metsman. You must admire Duncan Hunter. I guess the college baseball season is over.
JIT, my regurgitation of JR's comments serves as a microcosm of conservative thought. Shouldn't you be on the lookout for black helicopters?
What if tRUMP does this?
What if tRUMP does that?
The guy is crapping in his courdorys.
Very simple deduction.
Eff him before he eff’s us.
He’s gotta know that the skeletons are gonna come out. BIG TIME.
Like the end of Terminator 2
Goes into a vat, squeals, moans and turns himself inside out.
Then, he’s gone.
It’s happening right before our eyes.
Karma, babe, Karma.
The blue wave is faltering right before our eyes, the republicans are likely to hold onto the house, NJ is poised to elect a Republican senator to replace the crooked Menendez
Trump won't be impeached over this, its just not gonna happen. Even if the house goes to the Dems, the senate is not gonna vote for impeachment over this, It's just not gonna happen.
JR has been discussing this, with everyone on this forum, you don't like or agree with his responses, that's on you, but a robust discussion has and is taking place right here.
https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/democrats-want-to-impeach-a-republican-president-what-else-is-new/
Democrats have filed articles of impeachment on every republican president for the last 40’years - 35 times against GWB alone - it’s never worked.
In fairness, the Republicans have also filed for impeachment of at least the last 2 Democrat presidents as well.
Both parties act like petulant children. The difference is that only one of them has the support and of the media.
"JR has been discussing this, with everyone on this forum, you don't like or agree with his responses, that's on you, but a robust discussion has and is taking place right here."
As long you toe the party line.
"In fairness, the Republicans have also filed for impeachment of at least the last 2 Democrat presidents as well." How is that fairness to look at EVERY Republican President, but only look at the last 2 Dems to draw your "fair and unbalanced" view.
No wonder you don't get media support...….
Or how about opening it to all Quixotic political quests:
- over 50 ObamaCare repeals
- over 10 Benghazi investigations
Congress spent more time investigating Benghazi than they did for 9/11...…
This dialog about everything is the same as the other, your side did it so mine's OK, all politicians lie so get over it, or the non-fact that they are all Republicrats is just hogwash IMO. Similarities abound, as do differences. Just like you and I are similar yet very different. Only JIT is the same as everything :>) And only JR rises above and, in his own humble words, "will wait to hear actual FACTS before making sweeping predictions." Of course, this is from the guy who also said: "I'm actually surprised some left-wing wackjob hasn't tried to assassinate him yet, a la the Congressional baseball game shooting..." Wait, isn't that an egregious sweeping prediction predicated by another shooting that has absolutely nothing in common with JR's predictions? I believe that's called a "leap of faith?" Way to wait for those actual facts......
A few yoho's in The House launching an impeachment salvo is just that; a couple of yoho's in The House. That IS the founder's design; let the House be the voice of the people, all people. If it gets to the Senate, now we're talking. Ask Bill Clinton.
If that wasn't true, explain the over 50 ObamaCare repeal attempts beyond structural insanity and process lunacy.
As I have said, impeachment is a beauty contest, a reality show to vote someone on or off the island. That's the founder's design so that we could use it frequently and liberally. It avoids some of the bloody refreshing of the tree of liberty that JR expects on a frequent basis.
Trump knows this and, apparently with facts in hand that we don't have, has started to wage his final campaign against impeachment using Ghouliani and others to sway public opinion which has absolutely nothing to do with any legal proceedings. Ask Manafort. His latest rationale: you can't impeach someone delivering a great economy. Hmmmmm, works for Darrin..... Not for me.
IMO, impeachment proceedings are premature, wait for Mueller, and instead pray that we find a simpler, voluntary departure to honor the Office of the President and protect Trump's family as best we can. The fact that we are in the inner circle leaves only the family on the island. The other rats have left.
I assume that all these accomplices of his are being supenid and/or given immunity for questioning for a reason!! they are being investigated to see what other crap he did illegally. probably just piling it up!
hope he gets what he deserves. (and his kids involved in the Russian meeting and other treasonous things, such as requesting for the Russians to hack the emails of HC and to see that she loses (thus -- and he wins)). and that son-in-law innocent phony. they're allowed to have Top Secret Clearances? risky. one unqualified that just gets multiplied.
In the spirit of fair and balanced...…
Good news for Trump supporters: seems that Lanny Davis is walking back the CNN story that Cohen could corroborate Trump's knowledge of the Tower Meeting in advance of the meeting. Not knowing would match Cohen's Senate Testimony, so admission that he lied would be bad for Trump, bad for Cohen too.
Now it's just bad for Davis and for CNN.....
The chance of Trump not knowing about this meeting arranged by Trump's long-time buddy and including his son, his campaign manager, son-in-law is nil; however, proving it will take a rat's confession and thus far, no one has stepped forward.
CNN blatantly lied about that and other fake news outlets reported the lie as well. CNN has yet to even admit that they falsely reported this.
https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/michael-cohens-lawyer-walks-back-cnns-bombshell-2016-trump-tower-meeting-claim/
https://nypost.com/2018/08/23/cohen-told-congress-he-doesnt-know-if-donald-knew-about-trump-tower-meeting/
Blatanly?
They did, but let’s wait the response as to the blantancy. Does not look good for them.
In my book, the fact that Don didn’t go immediately apeshoot speaks volumes to blatant. Almost seemed like he believed it.....
Too bad, that would be the corker on the Ruskies.
I laughed so hard thinking about the actual head explosion from the left if this scenario were to ever really happen. It reminded me of an episode from "In Living Color" when Michael Bolton's head exploded. Kaboom!! Just a little humor for you Trump haters, don't get hot.
Lied? Meh, just a little twisting of the truth to fit an agenda.
Manipulating opinions is what CNN does.
lol auntiel, very funny and quite apropos , if pence ever became president their liberal heads would explode they need to be careful what they wish for, they know not what they do
Trump's not gonna be impeached over a couple of payments to old girlfriends, its just not gonna happen
He's being investigated for a lot more than 'keep it out of the press payments', just before an election.
or don't you know because you don't watch or read all the news website regarding the whole stories(sss) News broadcasts.
"Manipulating opinions is what CNN does." Perhaps, but then again, who doesn't. But this one is either a lie or not. It can even be an untrue fact, but the story can still be valid, just untrue. There are either multiple qualified sources or not. We don't even need to know who, but CNN owes it's readers/watchers the feedback that journalism guidelines were followed here. There is a need for detailing what happened.
Most of us probably believe that Donald J. Trump knew about the meeting in advance. He's a typical Mafia Don, who would dare to hide this meeting from him, much less DJr or Manthefort? But believing the obvious does not mean waiving basic journalism guidelines and winging it.
It was a big story. Due diligence beyond the minimum number of sources is required for such a story OR you are out on a limb. Multiple sources. Qualified sources. If they lied, they lied, but are they ever there or did CNN take a flyer based on a unqualified single source?
Given where CNN is in terms of Trump's fake Fake News narrative, CNN should be getting out in front of this and speaking out as to what happened.
I can not find any CNN feedback.
Getting very close to blatant lie, very close.
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2018/08/25/fox-smith-cavuto-baier-turn-trump-nr-vpx.cnn
Some commentators are even turning on Pinocchio as a downright liar.
Yes, we realize Pence is up in the batting order and that's OK.
We can tolerate differences of opinion, losing/compromising on things, and don't expect Pence to play King forgetting we are a nation that stands on a rule of law, not EO's, proclamations, and tweet storms.
I would expect Pence to return some of the dignity of the Office of the President that we have left on the curb for now.
And I expect him to pardon Trump from future Federal offenses, let's just begin to heal by forgetting this guy to the annals mistaken adventures.
If he gets pardoned by the new President (Pence) if there is an impeachment, does he still stand trial for all the allegations, jail, fines, etc.? or does 'pardoning' get him out of everything (trials, jail time, fines, etc.)?
Everything Federal but I don’t think the NYS cases pending for Charity Fraud, Campaign Financing Felonies, and whatevet scandal breaks next
Already setting tecords for scandal, crime, and conviction, this is one corrupt Presidency.
Bill Clinton thanks you for moving up the scandal ladder one rung.
Awfully quiet on the twitter today; must be war rooming it..:..maybe asking family advice..::
hackresident, it takes 2/3 rd's of the senate to vote for impeachment, and that's just not gonna happen here, and thanks for confirming that you ultimate goal is not to investigate Russian collusion but to investigate Trump as an individual and remove him from office for any reason,
Invalidating the results of a presidential election is your true goal, isn't it? You're still upset that Trump had the nerve and audacity to run for president and he employed the skill to win the election and for that, you can never forgive him and must see him destroyed by whatever means it takes.
Lovely POS for a president:
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/as-a-nation-mourns-mccain-trump-is-conspicuously-absent/ar-BBMu0bU?li=BBnb4R7
No Grey Hawk: 4000+lies. Is it up to 5000 lies now? Can you trust him? No! you can't trust a damn thing he says. Someone of KNOWLEDGE, substance, trust and good values who would be a good leader does not flip flop constantly.
HE IS NOT QUALIFIED FOR THIS TOP JOB IN A CATEGORY HE IS NOT EDUCATED FORMALLY IN ! (not in his "Trump University" - lol)
Why don't you apply for jobs as a Pilot, Car Mechanic, or Electrician, or Welder, that is, if you don't already have a license in it. Will you win? = some of you are just his Apprentice or 'Insulting Humanity/ tough man" fan and don't give even a glance as to what his qualifications are (not). look at all of this mess, not included in what ridiculous promises he made that he's trying to do.
Enjoy.
Amazing how an American Hero’s passing accelerates the diminishing stature of our “ Groper
In Chief”.
He’s down to Minion size and rapidly approaching the size and stature of garden gnome. ( and garnering the same respect)
Question is- during the Hero’s final services will ole’ Bonespurs be cheating on a round of golf in Fla or be arranging for a payoff for another infidelity?
BTW- flag at White House is NOT at half staff.
Classy guy - the Stubby Fingered loser in office.
VITE VOTE VOTE VOTE!
Trump’s tweet: “My deepest sympathies and respect go out to the family of Senator John McCain. Our hearts and prayers are with you!”
That’s just tacky. Other, more distinguished, politicians, from around the world, have been commenting on McCain’s service to our country, the horrible 5 years of torture he endured, and offering comfort to his family, via interviews or speeches. Trump cannot even pretend to act like an adult. Better off he doesn’t attend services. All the children there would have to babysit Trump and make sure he behaved himself. I could imagine Trump’s eulogy: “My thoughts and prayers to the family. No need to feel sad, folks. I can’t stop winning! WIN WIN WIN! Unemployment, repealing the ACA, locking up Hilary, wealth, wall, and war. Who’s service was this supposed to be for? McCain? He’s no hero. He got caught! I never get caught. ( yes, present tense) I’m a hero. I keep getting distracted with so much WINNING!”
Yup...better off with a little tweet. It’s the 5am “TTs”...toilet tweets, when the rampaging begins.
"Lovely POS for a president:
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/as-a-nation-mourns-mccain-trump-is-conspicuously-absent/ar-BBMu0bU?li=BBnb4R7\"
Sigh. You guys know McCain himself is the reason Trump is staying away, right?
(and I can't say that I blame him, but get the story straight. It's McCain's request.)
"In Washington, even death is political -- a fact McCain well understood as a sought-after eulogizer himself, and by planning his funeral rites to exclude the President"
https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/27/politics/mccain-message-trump/index.html
Jeff Rep- explain the WH flag at full staff.
Even your “ creative writing” and your ability to dredge up the most flimsy excuses in defense of this putrid coward can explain that away.
( but I’m sure you’ll try)
“Interesting choice of words.”.......not really, when you consider who/what I’m talking about. You think Trump’s never been tacky? I call it the way I see it. There’s some sarcasm to my previous post, however, based on his past and current, insane behavior, I think he’s just way too tacky and criminal for the title of POTUS. I sense Trump is jealous of McCain’s reputation. He’s jealous of lots of intelligent, experienced, and mature people. After having interacted with Trump, viewing behaviors that indicate instability, I cannot blame McCain for un-inviting Trump to his service. It would just turn into another rally...McCain knew it.
" tacky and criminal"
Criminal? LOL you indeed are suffering from TDS.
Interesting how all the liberals love REPUBLICAN McCain now... since McCain hated Trump. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend", huh?
Stymie-
I don't need to explain anything; they aren't my actions. I didn't agree with Trump when he did that whole "McCain got captured" crap on the campaign trail, and I dont agree with everything he does. You obviously haven't been paying attention.
Now, on to the FACTS about the WH flag:
"President Donald Trump lowered flags at the White House to half-staff to honor Sen. John McCain Saturday night, a posthumous mark of respect for the former Republican standard-bearer whom Trump had feuded with as president. (after the Arizona senator died of brain cancer Saturday. )"
So, McCain passed on saturday, Trump had the flag lowered on saturday. Where's the beef? That he didn't lower it instantly? Obama did the same thing after a mass shooting at a recruitment office. Much ado about nothing, as most of this thread is.
“You think Trump’s never been tacky?”
Didn’t say that. In fact tacky is too mild a word quite honestly.
I thought your choice of words was interesting because literally everyone else is doing the same thing: gushing over McCain when previously they were likely just as hard on him, if not more so, than Trump.
What I find tacky are the obvious untruths that most politicians who’ve been against McCain in the past are saying about him. All feel-good nonsense for political gain, for if it weren't we would not have all the continuous turmoil in our politics.
People should say what they truly feel (like Trump does). Only then will we know the true measures of their character and thus be able to choose the right folks to govern us.
"People should say what they truly feel (like Trump does). Only then will we know the true measures of their character and thus be able to choose the right folks to govern us."
Utopia (which is synonymous with truth) doesn't, can't, and will never, exist.
Human nature will never allow it.
Yeah, games people play...
Good song btw :-)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SLi7Ljcy6n8
"I didn't agree with Trump when he did that whole "McCain got captured" crap on the campaign trail, and I dont agree with everything he does." Wow, what a cop out to enable a guy who clearly is over-the-line often and should be dumped like yesterday's news.
It's one thing to not a agree with someone; it's another to eat crap because you like other aspects. He spews crap and you accept him, with a few reservations.....Where is your line?
"People should say what they truly feel (like Trump does). Only then will we know the true measures of their character and thus be able to choose the right folks to govern us." And when the things they say are below the line of common decency, on a frequent basis, or lies beyond comprehension in both scope, number and repetition --- when you know the true measure of your King, you just git along to git along, don't you. "well, I don't like everything he says...…" Sorry, no absolution for enablers of crap.
And no, this isn't Republicrat, this isn't "it's all the same," this isn't "he did it, so can I;" this is crap, unique and singular crap, to one man ---- your King.
In the case of McCain, the statement is fine, given what a load of crap he spewed earlier, he could do no better. Stay away, whether McCain ordered it or not, don't even send Pence or Melanoma ---- they're all tainted by the spew at this point. And getting the flag right -- forget about it; we already know what you think.
Mets: if the libs are off their meds, then why are you in such copious defense mode. Looks like the conservatives, although not true ones, are out typing the libs three to one ------ and that includes me!
I'm not in defense mode, people like you are just desperate to get your way. Hillary wasn't a good candidate so you can't blame anyone for voting for Trump. She has plenty of skeletons in her closet too.
"explain the WH flag at full staff."
Per 4 U.S.C. § 7(m) flying the flag at half staff for a Senator is only required for the day of death and the following day. So, Saturday and Sunday in this case.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/4/7
(m) The flag, when flown at half-staff, should be first hoisted to the peak for an instant and then lowered to the half-staff position. The flag should be again raised to the peak before it is lowered for the day. On Memorial Day the flag should be displayed at half-staff until noon only, then raised to the top of the staff. By order of the President, the flag shall be flown at half-staff upon the death of principal figures of the United States Government and the Governor of a State, territory, or possession, as a mark of respect to their memory. In the event of the death of other officials or foreign dignitaries, the flag is to be displayed at half-staff according to Presidential instructions or orders, or in accordance with recognized customs or practices not inconsistent with law. In the event of the death of a present or former official of the government of any State, territory, or possession of the United States, the death of a member of the Armed Forces from any State, territory, or possession who dies while serving on active duty, or the death of a first responder working in any State, territory, or possession who dies while serving in the line of duty, the Governor of that State, territory, or possession may proclaim that the National flag shall be flown at half-staff, and the same authority is provided to the Mayor of the District of Columbia with respect to present or former officials of the District of Columbia, members of the Armed Forces from the District of Columbia, and first responders working in the District of Columbia. When the Governor of a State, territory, or possession, or the Mayor of the District of Columbia, issues a proclamation under the preceding sentence that the National flag be flown at half-staff in that State, territory, or possession or in the District of Columbia because of the death of a member of the Armed Forces, the National flag flown at any Federal installation or facility in the area covered by that proclamation shall be flown at half-staff consistent with that proclamation. The flag shall be flown at half-staff 30 days from the death of the President or a former President; 10 days from the day of death of the Vice President, the Chief Justice or a retired Chief Justice of the United States, or the Speaker of the House of Representatives; from the day of death until interment of an Associate Justice of the Supreme Court, a Secretary of an executive or military department, a former Vice President, or the Governor of a State, territory, or possession; and on the day of death and the following day for a Member of Congress. The flag shall be flown at half-staff on Peace Officers Memorial Day, unless that day is also Armed Forces Day.
" . . . people like you are just desperate to get your way . . . "
+1 Mr. Mets, spot on correct. Trump had the audacity to run for president and he put in the hard work to win the election and they can't deal with it.
The Russian Collusion investigation has morphed into a get Trump at any cost crusade, and the haters are not only gonna hate, they are gonna spew their hatred everyday, all day long, which is what we're seeing here.
Truth is that the CBS election pollsters see the Republicans holding onto both the house and the senate this midterm. Now haters are gonna hate and they are gonna continue the hatred, but there is little to no chance trump is going to be impeached over this nonsense.
We didn't elect a choir boy, we elected an outsider who is doing the things we elected him for. The libs are clearly losing their collective sh*t over the policy changes, but these are policy changes that I and many others have been advocating for over 50 years at this point .
President Trump is finding ways to effectuate changes that other Presidents only gave lip service to. The libs know this is true and so they attack, attack, attack, not only trump but all of his supporters. They try to drum them out of the public square, they think only the 'progressives' hold the moral high-ground (what nonsense), they believe only they have the intellectual rigor to do the critical thinking needed to evaluate current events. (surely those low brow , Neanderthal right -wing lug nuts, don't , they cant even think their out of a paper bag)
So the goal now is not to just investigate Russian collusion, but rather to expand the scope to find something, anything to bring down Trump. That's their true goal and we all know it. To bring him down, period, it matters not what for, that's immaterial, just get him gone is their true goal.
Isn’t that what they did to Bill Clinton?
Whitewater Real Estate investment leads to sexual situation ( stated delicately)
tRUMP - election collusion investigation will lead ( in the very least) a MASSIVE money laundering sceme and tax evasion.
Just my opinion now.
But as the investigation continues- will be irrefutably documented.
Hence the panic by Bonespurs.
Just a matter of time.......
Ssssh Stymie, Mets and the Wolf get all defensive when you do a "you did it first, worse, higher and harder...."
Besides we're all Republicrats, we are the same liars, cheats and thieves. And it doesn't matter anymore, we don't call that stuff out anymore when our side does it. We just blame the other side for doing it first.
Besides look at all the great things Trump has done to not screw up the Obama economy. Hopefully, he can keep it up during the rest of his term so he can finally own it.
Of course, they stopped looking at the deficit and debt. After all, Obama has the debt first, it's his fault Trump is jacking it up to be NUMBER ONE! With deficits running around $500B the last four years, Trump will probably cross $1T this year putting out deficit at The Great Recession levels and boosting out debt to over $20T last year and over $21T already this year. You just gotta admit: Don knows debt. Funny thing is that Dad or Uncle Sam won't be there for him on this crash.
Yeah, Trumps' doing great things but you really should examine the bill. It's NOT like Obama's --------- it is a far, far, worse situation. There's no cushion for the next crash, you will take it like a man...….or not.
“Besides we're all Republicrats, we are the same liars, cheats and thieves.”
Only if you put yourself into one of the two standard buckets by blindly following your party’s line. Like if you find yourself parroting every little thing that the party leaders say, that would be a good clue. ;-)
Now if you are willing to question the party line...good for you!
I gotta say, out of this entire thread, my fascination lies with the continued use of "tRUMP" by Stymie
"Now if you are willing to question the party line...good for you!" because blindly not following a party is the guarantee of righteousness in the black n white world of obvious results from predetermined prejudices. Not.
Could the party line ever be right?
Could questioning ever be wrong?
Just because you are party contrarian does not mean you are not a blind follower or a parrot. Nor does following a party line mean certainly that you are "standard," "blind," or even a "parrot."
You tend to label anything not you as Republicrat. To me, that is not only untrue but a gross simplification at best. At some level, we are all individual. At another level, we are all the same. You seem to tend to "sameness" over "individuality" thus living in a world of Republicrat. I see a yuge difference between the two parties.
That's the theme on all of this.....
Like I said many months ago on this thread, how much more in debt are we now than 1-1/2 years ago? I thought the debt was supposed to go down per promises.
I think this June headline says it all:
"National debt at highest level since after WWII" Thank You Donald J. Trump and all you folks reveling in the glow of reduced taxes without foundation.
"Despite President Trump's declaration that he would eliminate the national debt over eight years, the debt-to-Gross Domestic Product ratio has reached its highest level since after World War II, according to a new report from the Congressional Budget Office (CBO). And if current law and spending levels remain unchanged, national debt will be nearly the size of the economy by 2028."
"The national debt topped $21 trillion for the first time in U.S. history earlier this year.
Republicans railed against the national debt during the Obama administration, when it nearly doubled from $10.6 trillion to $19.9 trillion. But Republicans — with few exceptions — have been more muted about the debt under Mr. Trump."
Muted......well, that's politically correct way of saying it.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/national-debt-at-highest-level-since-after-wwii/
"It's one thing to not a agree with someone; it's another to eat crap because you like other aspects. He spews crap and you accept him, with a few reservations.....Where is your line?"
You're going to have to cite examples, SD... I don't answer to vaguery.
"Could the party line ever be right?"
In this discussion, regarding you, Stymie, et al... "ever" isn't the correct term... in your cases, it would be "always." In which case, the answer is NO.
"You're going to have to cite examples, SD... I don't answer to vaguery." Or, more likely, vagary, but hey, who's counting. If you haven't noticed any crap spewing from the King's mouth and need direction to find the right stuff then, Houston, I think we have a problem here. JR no see crap when standing in a yuge pile of it.
I sincerely doubt you're going to draw a line on this; I mean if the McCain sliming only elicited a tame, lame "I didn't agree with Trump," does anyone here really believe specific examples will change you. I mean if you can't see it yet, I don't think my pointing it out will matter. But nonetheless, it's an easy task for anyone who cares to look.
"He spews crap and you accept him, with a few reservations."
Try this: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2018/06/01/president-trump-has-made-3251-false-or-misleading-claims-in-497-days/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.4a353752f2bf
Only over 3,000 things you have accepted to choose from...….
Or....
a top ten list (there are many top ten lists, so let's say top 100, buy I show 10 only): https://www.forbes.com/pictures/flji45elmm/7-lightweight/#31a3e1f0e162
Or....just a cacophony of pet names, sometimes, especially for blacks, they really are pets: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/08/13/trumps-nicknames-for-rivals-from-rocket-man-to-pocahontas.html
Hard to believe you needed a roadmap to find your way to the Trump gutter. I mean the Trump crap is piled so high that people have had to database it, categorize it, and then sorted it according to different parameters.
Now, be a gentleman, disown this piece of gutter trash, and step up to stand on the edge of the curb with me :>)
Jeff Rep.
The problem is that the Republican Party had what, 8 to 10 candidates competing for the nomination, several that I would have considered voting for.
But your party settled for the lying, morally bankrupt, coward, draft dodging, bully, racist d-bag that now occupies the office.
I guess deficits only matter when a Black Man sits in the White House?
You cannot be proud of the way this jackass is conducting himself.
Or can you????
The flag code dictates that flags be flown at half-staff for desceased Congressmen and Senators on the day of their death and the following day. That is why the flag was raised after midnight early Monday morning. Flag was lowered Saturday after his passing and Sunday.
Trump then cam along and ordered it to be half mast until his internment and provided honor guards etc.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/statement-from-the-president-2/
Yep. The flag was handled exactly in accordance with the US code requirements that I linked to above.
I’m surprised nobody blamed Russia for this “issue” too.
Let’s remember how much hate McCain had from the left in 2008 - now because he disagreed with Trump he’s the poster child for why Trump is horrible. Meanwhile if Trump did anything more to honor him it would be seen as reversing himself.
" If you haven't noticed any crap spewing from the King's mouth and need direction to find the right stuff then, Houston, I think we have a problem here. JR no see crap when standing in a yuge pile of it. "
Nice try, SD. Just like the investigators in the "Russia Russia Russia case", you got nothing. Let me know if you'd like to talk about something specific re: "Trump vs me."
"Jeff Rep.
The problem is that the Republican Party had what, 8 to 10 candidates competing for the nomination, several that I would have considered voting for."
As I did (vote for someone else in the primary.) But let's not fib, Stymie- no one here believes you would have voted for anyone but HRC or Bernie.
"But your party settled for the lying, morally bankrupt, coward, draft dodging, bully, racist d-bag that now occupies the office."
There's where you are wrong, and refuse to listen, because the truth takes all the wind out of your sails regarding me: I am not a GOP member or blanket supporter. I do not consider myself a republican (party). I've only said it a hundred times. Not my problem if you don't want to listen. But then, you guys are very good at that (not listening) unless it's something you already agree with.
"I guess deficits only matter when a Black Man sits in the White House?"
Racism card won't work with me. I have never given ANY indication race plays ANY role in who I support... because, like DR MARTIN LUTHER KING, I judge people on the content of their character, not the color of their skin.
Get me a (insert race and/or gender here) libertarian constitutionalist, and I'll vote for them!
More winning from an accomplished president:
STOCKS SMASH RECORD ON NEW NAFTA DEAL
TENSIONS WITH MEXICO EASE
S&P 500, Nasdaq jump to record highs as US and Mexico strike trade deal
The S&P 500 and Nasdaq hit all-time highs, led by gains Caterpillar, Boeing and auto stocks.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/27/us-stocks-to-open-higher-after-powell-signals-further-rate-hikes.html
JeffersonRepub--
You started this thread on June 12th. It's so long. Why don't you do a "Part II" for these topics(sss), now to include Mueller's investigations (or name it whatever).
Thank you.
JR --- you're loosing me on this one. You ask for examples, I gave them, you dithered. I don't have a clue what you want.
Skippy: you have to refresh me on my hatred of John McCain in 2008, don't seem to remember that one.....
Meanwhile: while you are absolutely correct as to the proper half-staff flag etiquette. you apparently left out, twice, the precedent for Presidential proclamations to extend the period until interment.
You know, like other Presidents have routinely had the class to use. You know, just like Trump did for John Glenn and others...….
But this time, he chose to forget.
Until he was reminded.
Then he took credit for doing the right thing he should have done in the beginning.
And he took credit for it, in writing, as our savior...…
Class is class. You either have it, or you nurse useless grudges.
SD you don’t remember him running against Obama in 2008 with Palin as VP on the ticket ...
https://www.thenation.com/article/mccains-kremlin-ties/
The left pulled the same “Russia” card
He was mentally unfit per wapo - here’s a snapshot
In 2008 John McCain was a "known white supremacist". He was portrayed as a Palpatine-esque character noted for referring to Asians as gooks and his deep, deep corporate & DC connections via marriage - don’t play dumb. You’re virtue signaling
Jeff Rep.
I’d vote for Kasich against a “generic” Dem.
I believe him to be stand up and honest.
Experienced in government mechanisms.
tRUMP is despicable.
I’m sorry but The Nation, The Puffin Institute, are a little left of Bernie. and an uncited WAPO inqoted quote doesn’t ring a bell
U need to do better.
I do remember the brilliant Palin choice, how she knowsRussia, and bomb bomb Iran.
And yeah, it’s the same Russia card. John McCain made his fortune from Russian investments In Budweiser, surrounded himself with Russian symphathizers, and then asked the Russians for stolen Obama emails. At least in your dreams it’s all the same, it’s all Republic-rats, we are one, ook ook cha choo. I AM THE Walrus.
It’s always simpler when it’s all the same.
All the same - boy am I happy to see you’re finally realizing the futility of partisan politics!
Years pass, decades, with the same recycled accusations. Sure the individual details change, but the outcomes? Always the same. While Republicrats argue amongst themselves, those who control the levers of real power - the unchanging systems of government like our monetary system (debt based) and tax system (carrot on a stick pseudo-perks for the masses, real perks for the rich) carry on. Repubs spend trillions on waging warfare, Licrats on playing Robin Hood (or so they’d like us to think). Either way, Republicrats spend spend spend more than we have and pass the burdens onto the next generation (who will do the same of course).
So yes, at the end of the day they’re all the same. Glad you are finally getting it! ;-)
Yes, if it's all the same and we all get it just like you get it, then everything is easier to understand.
Even the moneyary system underwent a yuge sea change starting in 2008 that apparently you missed.
Missed it? Did you forget that I was front and center bitching and moaning about it back then?
And the system didn’t change, it only got more extreme, more of the same but on steroids! More greed-driven might be a way to describe it as well. And before you complain about that description remember that you yourself just validated the whole problem a few posts ago: unrestrained debt creation. You blamed trump, mistakenly I might add, for the necessary debt expansion needed to maintain it. Hillary or Bernie or whoever would have needed to do the same thing because that’s how debt based money works.
SD,
None of the "examples" you listed have anything to do with me. If you have an example of something he said or did that I then APPROVED of (that in your mind was wrong, but then we're getting into opinions, aren't we?), I'm all ears.
You act like if Trump says ANYTHING, and I don't come on here and condemn him for it, that means I am automatically agreeing with him? (and you have said as much many times)... you sir indeed have a severe case of hatred and TRS that can not be helped even with meds. You are a lost cause.
FWIW, I didn't hear you condemning Chris Cuomo for this, so I guess that means you think it's A-OK, right?
(sorry, I had to use The Wrap as source; apparently CNN chose not to highlight the issue enough for a google search to pick it up):
https://www.thewrap.com/chris-cuomo-defends-antifa-after-violence-not-to-be-judged-the-same-as-the-bigots/
So that means you're pro-violence, right SD?
https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2008/07/bill_clinton_hints_mccain_unst.html
You don’t recall clinton painting McCain mentally unstable attributing it to his time as a POW?
SD the left is merely using this against Trump and you know it
I think Carlin was on to something. Hope ya' all can view this short video:
https://www.facebook.com/standupcomedysstandup/videos/251404542088514/
"Missed it? Did you forget that I was front and center bitching and moaning about it back then?" I don't remember you even noticing the sea change event to the monetary system structure in 2008, so no.
"None of the "examples" you listed have anything to do with me. If you have an example of something he said or did that I then APPROVED of (that in your mind was wrong, but then we're getting into opinions, aren't we?), I'm all ears."
The NIMBY of lies. If it don't touch me, then I am not 'all ears.'
"You act like if Trump says ANYTHING, and I don't come on here and condemn him for it, that means I am automatically agreeing with him?"
Actually, it was you who asked for Trump spews as in: SD says: "It's one thing to not a agree with someone; it's another to eat crap because you like other aspects. He spews crap and you accept him, with a few reservations.....Where is your line?"
"You're going to have to cite examples, SD... I don't answer to vaguery"
So I provided over 3,000 examples of Trump lies for you to pick from to show us your line. And you ask for more specificity.
I can understand your inability to pick a lie you disagree with from over 3,000 of them, or some name calling you disagree with from over 500 names --- I am sure it's a difficult task for you requiring you to ask for my help.
But that was the issue to begin with, wasn't it?
Skippy, that's a good one is that I agree that Bill was being pretty damn low with that remark. Although that is the sort of spot-on trigger comment given John's bomb, bomb, Iran and other sort-of, a bit loony statements.
But Bill Clinton, in Aspen, helping Obama? speaking for the entire left: hardly.
Yes, McCain was in the opposing party, and you know his party wasn't 110% behind him at any time either. So yes, we have differing views and we voice them. Likewise, when McCain stood up against Trump, because of conservative views, we applauded. Why not. You said you would replace ObamaCare, you failed miserably, and McCain pointed that out with his righteous vote. Were we wrong to applaud that? Millions with 2018 healthcare insurance say we were right to agree with a true Conservative. But to say: "the left is merely using this against Trump and you know it" is blatantly untrue, not called for, and ridiculous. Trump's actions are what we hold against Trump. Trump's words and actions against John McCain are what we hold against Trump. McCain's life as a soldier, statemen and gentleman is what we are celebrating, not our disagreements with McCain, much less even thinking about Trump......except when Trump won't let us think of anything else.
And his supporters, accepters, and enablers can do whatever they want.
"So I provided over 3,000 examples of Trump lies for you to pick from to show us your line. And you ask for more specificity. "
Was it 3000? I didn't count. LOL
As I said, TWICE now, if you'd like to show me an example of where *I* was "eating crap", in your words.... because let's not forget, this all started with your comment:
"It's one thing to not a agree with someone; it's another to eat crap because you like other aspects. He spews crap and you accept him, with a few reservations.....Where is your line?"
As I have said, again- TWICE, just because someone doesn't come on here and lambast and hate and disagree with Trump on every word that comes out of his mouth (like you do), does not mean we "agree with him." You are projecting. But that's what you ALWAYS do. It gives you something to be outraged about, instantly. How convenient.
Are you ready to condemn Chris Cuomo's statement now? Because if you don't, by your logic, that means you AGREE WITH Antifa's violent actions.... be careful....
"Was it 3000? I didn't count. LOL" LOL, because the lie count and days covered ARE the title of the piece you didn't even look at the title, much less click on..... because "As I said, TWICE now, if you'd like to show me an example of where *I* was "eating crap", in your words.... because let's not forget," that I asked you, based on Trump's spew, where was your line.
And then I gave you over 3,000 examples of lies, over 500 name calling incidents, and more for you to show us where your line of decency was established and you essentially said: help me find my own line....
I can't help you JR, you have to help yourself.
And Cuomo's opining about Anifa's actions is a red herring; I will pass.
"And Cuomo's opining about Anifa's actions is a red herring; I will pass."
Interesting. Your own logic doesn't apply to you. Not surprising tho. You can't even live up to your own standards. A shame.
What standards could you ever be talking about? The "thou shall respond to every red herring thrown out there" standard?
LOL, you know very well what I'm talking about. But by all means, continue with your projection, TDS, and rabid hatred of Trump and everyone you assume "accepts everything he is and does".. BTW, you got a little foam coming out of your mouth there LOL
TDS on full display. Isn't doing "your side" any favors....
Bottom line: if you don't condemn Cuomo, then you agree with, accept, and support ("eat crap?") everything he said. It's tough being you.
"LOL, you know very well what I'm talking about." No I don't. What standard are you talking about.
And calling me deranged, twice, really won't help the discussion.
As much as you revere me as "the number #1 Trump hater," or the HL alpha liberal, I really don't speak for "your side" as you like to call it on your kinder, more compassionate days, usually just before you lash out with some more name calling.
"Bottom line: if you don't condemn Cuomo, then you agree with, accept, and support ("eat crap?") everything he said. It's tough being you." It's good to be King, eh JR.
I find it funny that the liberals think because we voted for Trump that we support every little thing he does. Talk about TDS... I don't think there's been a President in my lifetime where I can say I agreed with everything they did.
"It's good to be King, eh JR."
It's good to have principles I live by, not ones I don't live by yet hold others to.
BTW, I didn't call you deranged- not once. Writing fiction again, SD? I said you have TDS, which is actually a real mental disorder, you should probably talk to someone.
Actually, I see therapists have now re-branded the condition "Trump Anxiety Disorder" (TAD). So, my heartfelt apologies for "implicating" you as "deranged", when in fact, you have an anxiety disorder. It's still serious, and worth talking to a therapist. Good luck.
https://patriotpost.us/alexander/57485-therapists-rebrand-trump-derangement-syndrome
I think you are attempting to put lipstick on a pig.
Maybe it's not that we believe you support every little thing he does, who would?
Maybe, for me, it's just what I actually said: "It's one thing to not a agree with someone; it's another to eat crap because you like other aspects. He spews crap and you accept him, with a few reservations.....Where is your line?"
Some people don't seem to know the answer to "where is your line" anymore. So let's try the three questions JR is unable to answer asking instead for me, the numero uno Trump hater and HL alpha liberal, to show him the way. Amazing. So....
Does he (Trump) spew crap?
- I think, based on his own words, he is the greatest Presidential spew of total crap in all of American history. This is not "your's did it, so does mine," but a total spew of crap, all the time, every day.
Do you accept him (Trump)?
- There's a big difference between "I don't support everything he does" and holy batshat Batman, that's total bat crap and stepping across the line of basic decency in how to comport yourself as a gentleman, much less President of the United States of America: I do not accept that..
Where is your line?
Wow to SD’s last comment.
Pop quiz to see who’s been paying attention.
Which very wise HL poster wrote the following?
“Just pass by the North Korea thread here on HL. 98% of that thread is pure conjecture and biased opinion. Yet it is being stated as absolute fact and gospel.”
that's the new MO Mets - they shame you personally and justify violence against you
they consider Trump a Fascist and if you have no opinion or worse yet support him you deserve no quarter.
https://www.nationalreview.com/the-morning-jolt/maxine-waters-political-violence/
The Left maintains that "hate" speech doesn't qualify under free speech.
https://www.mrctv.org/videos/cuomo-scoffs-left-wing-violence-antifa-has-moral-upper-hand
you have CNN reporters validating that ANTIFA has the moral upper hand and that their violence is justified.
“That's why people who show up to fight against bigots are not to be judged the same as the bigots, even if they do resort to the same petty violence,” he argued, before addressing “the hateful few who take solace and encouragement from the president’s efforts:”"
here is a good Ben Shapiro article about it
https://www.dailysignal.com/2017/08/15/the-3-step-argument-the-left-makes-to-justify-violence-against-conservative-speakers/
as ffar as the quote it was Greg in the McDonalds thread - what do I win
http://www.hackettstownlife.com/forum/860182#t860262
Greg... and he's absolutely right. The people on both sides of these arguments are absolutely deranged, lol.
"Does he (Trump) spew crap?"
Don't they all? In my entire 25 years of following politics closely, there have been VERY FEW politicians who don't "spew crap". Including your beloved Obama. You error is in trying to identify Trump (and all republicans except McCain recently lol, but most especially Trump) us "unique" in this regard. He is not.
"Do you accept him (Trump)?"
You'll have to be more clear. Are you asking me about some policy? Or what? I accept him as President of the United States, yes, because he won the election. You don't, which is a major symptom of TAD.
As for your "line", I'm not sure exactly what you are talking about, you'll have to be more precise. I THINK what you asking is "what will it take for you to hate Trump like I do?", which is just another glowing symptom of TAD.
It's not unique to NOT agree 100% or disagree 100% with someone. Actually, I think it's the norm 99.99% of the time. You are trying to make the entire issue black/white, right/wrong, like you always do- left/right, republican/democrat, you can't compute when someone actually thinks critically and therefore doesn't pick a side. Politics, the world, and everything.... all shades of grey my friend. Black & white only at the extreme fringes. Shades of grey.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/08/28/fbi-agent-says-bureau-leaked-stories-then-used-them-to-get-fisa-warrants.html?repost
Apparently the FBI leaked info to the press and use the articles as the basis for the FISA warrants used to spy on the Trump campaign.
So we are learning the FISA warrant used to surveil POTUS was obtained ILLEGALLY. We aren’t headed towards 1984, we are living in it.
This right here is your election interference - Will people be held accountable?
"So we are learning the FISA warrant used to surveil POTUS was obtained ILLEGALLY. We aren’t headed towards 1984, we are living in it.
This right here is your election interference - Will people be held accountable?"
STOP TALKING ABOUT OBAMA, HE DOESN'T MATTER. HE'S NOT PRESIDENT ANYMORE. LOL
https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/kushner-cos-fined-210k-york-false-documents-202708312--politics.html
keep on doing the same things until you get legally caught. like father/like son-in-law/ like sons?----thoughts boys?
Skippy, you're reaching and speculating even more than SD. Plus the story you linked to doesn't say what you say it does. Take a deep breath and step away from the computer for a little bit (-;
Thank you Iman, and exsqueeze me: speculating? I asked three questions, how is that speculation?
Does he (Trump) spew crap?
Do you accept him (Trump)?
Where is your line?
How can those questions be speculating anything except that people will not respond except with deflection, name calling, branding and the like?
As to the rest: I need to push back. Sure, I do not like Trump the man, or Trump the politician, and I hate Trump the King. But what I have said is:
- Trump's fortune is based on a foundation of Russian Investment
- Trump's Campaign and Administration is filled with Russian sympathizers
- Trump's Campaign and Administration has some strange actions that favor the Russians
In each case, I have backed up what I said with facts. Not conjecture, not speculation, but facts.
I have agreed that Russian collusion, while highly possible, much smoke, is not proven and will not be until Mueller unveils his results.
I invite anyone to point out any speculation, guessing, and fake news. Fire away instead of playing your little name calling brand naming games.
JR finally provided his brave answer; congratulations on standing up.
Does he (Trump) spew crap? JR answer: Don't they all?
SD: JR is drawing a moral equivalency between Trump and other politicians which I think is the root of his acceptance of the situation. Apparently can't argue his opinion even with the facts clearly indicating that no, JR, Trump spews much more crap than any other President. Quality and quantity.
Do you accept him (Trump)? JR answer: As President, yes. (fair enough, me too). As to policy, you have to ask specific policies (I take that as a general yes, on balance. Is so, fair enough answer, hard to argue). And JR believes SD is crazy. (thank you very much for the needless color. You were doing so well, too.)
Where is your line? JR answer: "I THINK what you asking is "what will it take for you to hate Trump like I do?". (fair enough answer and you are right.)
Yes, I find Trump a morally vacant vile little man and I wonder what will it take for you to feel the way I do. No doubt about it. But given Trump's track record for disgusting, demeaning, dehumanizing behavior, I wonder if and when we will find ourselves in the same rowboat pulling together on the oars. And IMO, his policies are also BS, not to mention how he mostly invokes them as King rather than by law. So while I can easily give a general thumbs down, I can understand a generalized thumbs up with the request for more specificity.
Thanks JR for the answers, takes bravery to respond beyond the petty petulant name calling so imbued in other responses here.
WOW SD, you have taking adding narrative to people's posts to a whole new level! It's no wonder people refuse to answer your questions!
Now say it with me: RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA...over, and over, and over again..........continue until everyone, including yourself believes it
UPDATE: There are nukes on the Korean Peninsula, but wait there's more. We don’t prepare ourselves via practice drills there anymore. Trump stopped all War Games on the peninsula as being provocative. Point one: Un.
Pompeo called home by the President over lack of progress. Point Two: Un.
It will take time until we know more about the 55 remains, if they are even Americans. Net ball: Trump.
565 immigrant children are still in government custody from the Trump zero tolerance mandatory family separation and detention process deemed illegal by Trump who called it legal before Trump made it illegal after making it legal, so Trump could take Trump credit for fixing the Trump mistake Trump ordered made. Confused?
A total of 366 kids, 6 under 5 years, have parents already deported. The government concluded it has no clue where they are or how to find them. They told the judge that it’s the ACLU’s job to do that. The court said BS to that.
The government further asserted reunification is only possible in the country of origin which calls for kids to give up asylum claims in order to be reunited with their parents in a cruel arm-twisting game by the government against little kids. Tough choice for a kid, like to see how they manager the 5-year old’s decision on that one.
In 163 cases, the government states that the parents did not want reunification. Many of these cases are disputed, in court, with parents claiming coercion, inadequate communication, and duress. A number are parents already out of the country or deported.
I see a “Sophie’s Choice” Trumpian movie in all this……dramatic tragedy of course, no happy ending.
Meanwhile…..
Manafort trial refile happens tomorrow. Should be a no brainer UNLESS Manafort second trail a no-brainer life sentence (which it is), or pending plea deal on the table (already being talked about). Since I am guessing Mueller pretty much knows everything, any Manafort deal will be a good one. Ask Papadopoulos.
Manafort second trial in 9/7 in DC, moved to 9/17 I think. Given DC is 95% Hillary country, dead man walking…..no Trumpian holdout juror expected here. Oh yeah, there’s plenty of Russians in this trial; some of the documentation will need translation.
Papadopoulos sentencing is also 9/7; Fed asked for the max 6 months because Papadopoulos is useless as a flipper. Oh yeah, that was Russians in his lies..
Cohen at home waiting for December sentencing…..unless other shoes drop like from Trump’s financial wizard or his best friend, the publisher, both flippers. .
Many NY cases pending against Trump Co officials, Trump kids, oh boy, the whole family is involved now. It’s a designated crime family like the Corleone’s.
SD you haven't proven that Russia is the foundation of Trump's fortune. That is actually laughable. In fact if you look at this list of things with his name on it, I don't see Russia anywhere.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_things_named_after_Donald_Trump
SD and all these charges have nothing to do with Russian collusion. Have fun gloating over it. Meanwhile crap the Dems did, Mueller just looks the other way. If you think our justice system is fair and balanced then you live in a fantasy world.
You're surprised that the list does not include the word Russia and so find Russian investment laughable. Great research of a Captain Obvious level.....
My publicly available sources are all listed above. They detail billions of Russian funds going into Trump properties, some of which are on your list, but none of which include "Russia" in the Trump property name.
Trump Jr.'s quote about all of the golf courses being built on Russian funding is also linked above.
Trump's only financing bank's, Deutsche Bank, history of Russian money laundering and Trump's strange ability to still get funds from any bank are also linked and sourced above.
Trump's major investment house funding him, Bayrock's funding sources (Russina oligarchs) and human resources (Russian mobsters) are also sourced and linked above.
As are a number of really questionable sales to Russians like the $95M sale of a $45M property to a very generous Russian oligarch are also linked and sourced above.
Or go with your list of Trump names proving no Russian involvement.
Or do your own research and tell me where else Trump might have gotten his investment.
Mets: what specific charges are you talking about? Because Papadopoulos lies were all about Russia...... https://www.justice.gov/file/1007346/download Uh oh, the word Russia appears 100 times...….
As I noted, Russia will be all over second Manafort trial.
Unless Putin is bankrolling anything who gives a crap... What is it illegal to do business with people from Russia all of a sudden? What about the Uranium One nonsense that involved Hillary or Bill making $500K off a speech in Russia. See I can pull rabbits out of hats too SD.
JIT --- when you have facts, we can talk, otherwise just keep porkin' it, seems to suit your critical thinking patterns and discussion style.
Mets: I am sorry, but why would Putin matter? I think you have issues with the definition of "foreign adversary, Russian collusion" and the like. I have no issues with doing legal business in Russia beyond the normal ethics decision of how to deal with a corrupt nation with massive human rights issues. The ole, "do you pay the bribe if everyone does it to do business there" type of ethical business questions.
But you threw your ethics out on 11/16 now didn't you :>)
And yes, you pulled $1/2M for a one-time Bill Clinton, private citizen speech; I pulled hundreds of millions, if not billions out from decades of taking money for investment from the Dark Empire. Not exactly in the same ball park, a one-time deal for services rendered versus decades of investment to derive future returns. Although if you no likely Bill's actions, it certainly makes one wonder why you could ever support Trump's Russian financial actions as being 100% Kosher without even a look-see. When we review Trump's dealings at the level of scrutiny put forth for the Clintons, then we'll have a comparison.
You pulled a one time payment and some hokey U1 deal that you can't even explain, much less convict on, and call me speculative. Pretty funny.
And who said Trump's Russian investment was illegal? I just said it happened, it is worthy of further scrutiny (along with his tax records), and some of it seems mighty strange. I mean when your financier went to jail for jabbing someone with a broken glass, shouldn't one do a little more due diligence than say, a loan from Fidelity Investments?
Illegalities, money laundering, quid pro quo's, influence peddling, access peddling ---- all to be determined. Even Trump's bank $640+M fine for BILLIONS in Russian money laundering does not mean that Trump got some of that money OR that he got special favors from the Bank because of the Russian influence (which the fine shows as being a fact). Even the fact that no other bank would touch Trump does not make him guilty of anything beyond being a shxthead to deal with. At least that's what the bankers say.
As is the new fact that most of our top Russian investigators have either been fired or are under extreme duress of losing clearances and being fired, may also figure in to this, yet to be determined by the Mueller probe. But can I say Russia has a hand in that ---- NO. That would be speculative.
Chinese Proverb: If the river is too clean, you will catch no fish.
I will let you figure that one out; but seems to certainly apply to you and others supporting Trump.
Found this SD:
https://express.google.com/product/8209771307538827775_10015268894456905865_5586167
He looks like a Russian version of Trump! How funny is that?!!! ;-)
That's SD alright... He can stretch himself and narratives so far that business deals with Russia become the reason Trump is rich.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/08/29/judge-dismisses-all-charges-against-3-extremist-muslim-new-mexico-compound-suspects.html
Meanwhile SD is worried about the kids who enjoy 3 meals a day and AC yet there's no justice in this case...
Why that’s just deplorable thinking Mets, go figure
Of course, it takes a true Trumper to think jail with AC is just like being home with the folks.
Or to see your parents again, all you have to do is forget about asylum. You probably think that’s a fair shake too.
I guess that’s because so many Trump associates end up in similar conditions.
http://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/404061-russian-oligarch-justice-department-and-a-clear-case-of-collusion
Here’s some more collusion
Christopher Steele - worked as a subcontractor for Russian billionaire and banned Russian election meddler Oleg Deripaska at the same time he wrote the dossier. Steele's work for evolved to the point where he was interfacing with the Obama administration on his behalf.
Steele and Bruce Ohr communicated extensively about the Russian Oligarch as recently as February 2016, which included efforts to obtain a Visa for Deripaska to attend an Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation meeting in the US.
To recap: Bruce Ohr = the #4 official at the DOJ, met with a billionaire friend of Vladimir Putin, in a sit-down arranged by Christopher Steele. Steele and the DOJ, meanwhile, were accusing Donald Trump of collusion with Putin - while the Obama administration used Steele's dossier to obtain a FISA warrant to spy on Trump campaign.
The only collusion revealed so far is that high ranking members of the FBI, who were sharing classified information with their girlfriends and wives who were working and partnering with elements of the Hillary campaign, who actually colluded with Russian intelligence operatives to interfere with the 2016 presidential election.
I think you're chasing the wrong people, but your terminal case of TDS prevents you from opening both eyes.
JIT, Greg and Skippy have the right view of this. Sadly, overly verbose rank partisans do not, but they should come around in time. I hold out hope for them,
Yes, our top Russian mob investigator, a researcher by results, met with Russians.
How did Trump know to ferret this guy out ---- I mean he's really under the radar. Except.......Putin's.
But we will see where it goes. Investigate, make our criminal warfare against the Russians transparent, vilify and demean him and his "beautiful" wife, and ruin his career of service to America. Fire away, investigate and take appropriate action.
Matter of fact, at this point, based on Trump firing of Comey for Russian meddling, talking Brennan's clearance away, more Russian implications, Strzok, another top Russian killer, fired for using the company phone to talk Trump trash, and the rest ---- you better investigate the entire DOJ, FBI and CIA for collusion. I think Trump already has the list prepared......
Hey, I don't have a clue on this one, I need a roadmap and white board to figure it out. In the meantime, try this backgrounder on the guy before you prepare the cross for crucifixion: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2018/08/16/who-is-bruce-ohr-why-does-trump-keep-tweeting-about-him/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.a515e93b55cd
"Now say it with me: RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA...over, and over, and over again..........continue until everyone, including yourself believes it"
+1 Darrin, it's the Goebbels 'Big Lie' propaganda technique in action. Repeat a lie often enough and pretty soon it becomes the truth. This was used to devastating effect to demonize the Jews in WWII and it's being used today by the progressives to demonize republicans, conservatives, etc. It's is being used by them to demonize and delegitimize a duly elected president of the united states, which is, in itself, election interference. Maybe they should look in a mirror to find out who interfered in the election.
Don't you think it's unusual that a few around him are going to jail for a long time: one, Cohen directed by him to do illegal things, and those doing his dirty-work are going into the slammer.
Greyhawk really thinks he knows what it feels like to be a Jew in Hitler’s Germany. Way to channel it for poor put upon Drumpf. Ironic ain’t it.
Always remember Hawk: you won. You own the government. Deal with it.
You had your chance as the loser. Remember 50 repeal attempts, birtherism, 10 Benghazi investigations and the rest.
Now it’s our turn in the loser box. Deal with it.
SD why can’t you admit that there is a deep state and corruption on both sides of the isle - why I support trump is that he is Not a career politician and took a step down to accept the office - we need to clean house and divest the government of people who mean to do all of us harm. We need to remove the influence on both sides and get back to the path our founding fathers set forth for us. I love America - do you ? Join me in going back to that idea .
Step where? He takes home $3B on his tax plan alone. He doubled his rates for mara loser, he is being sued for stealing all the foreign hotel business in DC. Yeah, he losing it all right
Do you know how much money you can make if you know the tariff plan. I made 30% in a couple weeks on Soy alone and I knew nothing. Imagine if you had a heads up and were a tad unscrupulous.
Took me 18 months to do that on his budget plan.
How would you know its a step down? See his tax returns? Or did he tell a truth....not.
And I said investigate away. I said to Punish all lawbreakers so you can give the preaching a rest
But Deep State cuz a guy uses a company phone to sex up his affair with some Trump trash talk. Or just starts the Russia investigation. Deep all right.....not.
You’re being overly dismissive there is definitive proof that career government folks are at play here.
What do you care what he makes - that’s on estate tax and so what he can’t enjoy it fromthe grave . You can leave the same to your progeny if you earn it.
Why don’t you enjoy your 30 point ROI due to the tariffs and say hey - Trump is helping me achieve value for my goals.
Would you rather there be no comfdex value
On investments?
I don’t get what you want here - apparently your garnering value from Trump being in office.
How do I know he took a step down ? His gig before this was diddle super models eat Big Macs and Diet Coke on a better plane appearing on TV occasionally for a laugh. He has zero Fs to give SD.
@SD "Just deal with it" ...... Sometimes I wonder if it would be easier to deal with Hilary then then constant TDS from the lefties.......it's sooooooo annoying and childish....have you ever thought about "just dealing with it" yourself? Maybe if the left didn't put on such a constant song and dance the President could actually get something productive done, but no, you will try all you can to slow him down, topple him, completely ruin him if you could, all at the expense of tax payer money....but you will blame him for that.
You complain about spending out of one side of your mouth, but then create so much b.s. roadblocks that create spending out of the other side of your mouth.... but yeah, you still feel good about what you do.
Can't wait to see how much this b.s. witch hunt costs us....and then put all that spending on the shoulders of those who caused it. But I am sure you will have some azz-backwards way of thinking of how it was okay, and that you did the right thing.
@SD " I said to Punish all lawbreakers so you can give the preaching a rest " oh, so can we start with Hilary? She got away with destroying evidence scott-free....known fact, no assumptions there.
"You’re being overly dismissive there is definitive proof that career government folks are at play here." Really? By saying: "investigate away. I said to Punish all lawbreakers" I am being dismissive?
Or is it by not jumping on a conservative opinion piece by a biased reporter many times fanning many a conspiracy theory? Or not jumping on any bandwagon driving by the likes of Meadows and Nunes. These guys are proven Trump whisperers so I will wait for the facts.
"What do you care what he makes - that’s on estate tax and so what he can’t enjoy it fromthe grave . You can leave the same to your progeny if you earn it." Yet the fact remains that by changing the law, Donald J Trump gains $3B that would have been heading to the Tax General Fund. The lion's share of those proceeds would have been used for national defense. So, Trump changed the law, we are weaker in National Defense and his estate is richer SOLELY because of Trump's change to the law. That's a pretty damn good ROI on his investment in the Presidency.
As to whether inheritance tax on the UBERriche is fair or not, we can differ. However, the fact will remain that Trump changed the law, Trump benefited.....massively.
"Why don’t you enjoy your 30 point ROI due to the tariffs and say hey - Trump is helping me achieve value for my goals." Sure, I like making money. I seem to be OK at doing it. But I appreciate making money the old fashioned way more than gaming the system.
Tariffs are nothing more than "taxation without representation" where the President, or King if you will, singlehandedly decides who wins and who loses while we, the people, pay his new tax. There is nothing created here, there is no business being done. It's just a paper game resulting in wild market fluctuations allowing folks to game the system to make some false profits.
But gaming the system allowing me false profits has a price. Soybean farmers are destroyed, Trump has to bail them out using YOUR tax dollars putting us further in debt for the King's tax. (certainly not his $3B....), so real people feel real pain.
It's easy money so I will continue, but I can think of better ways to make money. They are just not as easy.
"How do I know he took a step down ?" With $3B in his pocket, his property profits, you just don't know.
For a conspiracy lover, I am surprised you don't see the Putin's and the President's possible revenge in all this. From the President offering up Americans for Putin to interrogate, to Trump offering to share intelligence and, worse yet, intelligence methods with Putin, to the ever growing list of our Russian-fighters being singled out for persecution. Ohr is very good at his job and has to be on Putin's hit list. How did he find his way to Trump's radar is the question. How did this low level middle manager end up at the top of the list?
Or.....how did Strzok get fired for using a company phone for anti-Trump texts? Especially after the FBI discipline office suggested demotion and 60-day suspension? I mean if we get fired for talking trash on company equipment, how is the King at the top of the trash pile still there?
Meanwhile...…..another surprise Trump tweet firing, this time McGhan. Sessions is next. Must be great to work at a place where you leave your cell phone at the door, everybody is taping everybody, and you get fired by tweet
If Darrin and Iman want to try some facts, I am all game for discussion.
Iman --- if you can point out any untrue facts or even wild accusations, I am game to discuss.
But just throwing generalities and forgone conclusions of your own mind aint' worth discussion, much less pushing back on.
Is the mainstream media the 'enemy of the people'?
The verdict: No contest. Numbers are twisted, facts omitted, lies spun like thread in order to pile the dirt on the man who defeated Hillary.
President Trump’s ‘constant attacks’ – as the outlets call them – are nothing more than the response of a person who simply will not be bullied.
Ninety percent of all the news items are an attack on President Trump and his success in making America great again. Libelous, frivolous and outright lies are bandied about by the media in their pursuit to undermine and destroy the President.
The media has lied about the immigration, the wall, ICE, First Lady Melania and has stooped to the gutter in attacking her young son, Barron. The media adopted a ‘no-holds-barred’ position on the president and assumed the role of Grand Inquisitor. Mr. Trump has been called every dirty epithet in the book. Numbers are twisted, facts omitted, lies spun like thread in order to pile the dirt on the man who defeated Hillary.
The darling of the media, Hillary Clinton, was defeated by the man who was not supposed to come close to her. The crowned princess of the leftist media was shown the door and the media just can’t come to terms with their false assessment throughout the election process.
Didn’t they manipulate the polls to drive the point that Donald Trump has no chance of ever becoming President? Even on election night, the forecasters were determined to influence the very last voters that Hillary is a shoo in, a lie eventually exposed right there on the big screen. How could Trump wrest the golden staff from their darling? We must, therefore, destroy him in every possible way.
And the lying circus continues. Just watch CNN’s Jim Acosta as he goads White House Press Secretary, Sarah Huckabee Sanders.
CNN, MNBC, CBS, PBS -.every mainstream news outlet joined the lynching and the call for impeachment. The fabricated stories were spun and spun and laid down as gospel….and the lies have yet to recede.
The role of a journalist is to report the news. The journalists’ job is to make sure that the citizenry gets the precise truth of what is going on.
What would you call a media who is so hateful of the president, it simply forgot that its mission is to report to the public and instead, is resorting to fabrications, manipulations of a story, fibbing on facts, digitally changing pictures and has no interest in seeing any light breaking through the thick clouds of gloom it is projecting?
What do you call a media who considers every policy accomplishment and success to be a sham while the American people who do benefit from that ‘sham’ are happier than ever and clearly don’t understand the media’s ugly bias and disrespect?
What do I call the media? Don’t make me laugh. It’s obvious. The majority of Americans are sick and tired of the ugly conspiracy to destroy the president, a campaign led, nurtured and driven by the media, the same media that has turned Americans against it and now begs to differ. It’s too late. Enough!
Three-hundred editorials (or six-hundred, if it comes to it) in its own defense don’t change the ugly fact that President Trump is right.
The verdict? No contest.
The mainstream US media IS the enemy of the people.
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/22655
ianimal he's spot on. Guess you haven't been paying attention. The liberal media is the enemy of the people.
I've been paying attention. The wackadoodles on the left AND right are the enemy of the American people, some of whom are employed by left-wing news agencies, some of whom are employed by right wing news agencies. Sean Hannity is as much an enemy of truth, justice and the American Way as Rachel Maddow is. Many enemies aren't even IN the media; they're everywhere in Trump's Cabinet.
The media isn't a problem at all, as much you Trump lovers like to think they are. I think it's important that they keep track of Trump's constant lying and hold him to account. I think its also important that they be policed as well and be called out when they are less than truthful. Sunlight is the best disinfectant.
Conspiracy aside - I’m all for letting the investigation play out - however - any criminality needs to be treated in an equitable manner under the rule of law - not partisan politics. You have to admit there has vertically been different rules for different people In regard to prosecution.
CNN and other MSM outlets on the right and left have abandoned journalistic integrity and are now creating echo chambers pandering to their base. The fourth estate has abandoned us.
GreyHawk.: First, the convention is to quote other people's words when you quote them or copy/paste them. Even if you add the link. Let's others know that you did not write these thoughts.
Your Judaism bias is showing again. Last time you "channeled" being Jewish in Nazi Germany to describe "being Trump," this time you use an Israeli media source that is right-biased and linked to religious Zionism, to defend Trump's demeaning desecration of American journalism. Go figure, Israeli press does not like American press; no reason for bias there he said sarcastically.
And you conclude: "The mainstream US media IS the enemy of the people." Just like your Liar-In-Chief. Wow. That is so un-American....
"Have you have been an un-American?
Just you and your idol singing falsetto 'bout
Leather, leather everywhere, and
Not a myth left from the ghetto
Well, well, well, would you carry a razor
In case, just in case of depression?
Sit on your hands on a bus of survivors
Blushing at all the Afro-Sheeners
Ain't that close to love?
Well, ain't that poster love?
Well, it ain't that Barbie doll
Her heart's been broken just like you have
All night
All night was a young American
Young American, young American, you want the young American
All right
All right you want the young American" (David Bowie)
"Yet the fact remains that by changing the law, Donald J Trump gains $3B that would have been heading to the Tax General Fund. The lion's share of those proceeds would have been used for national defense."
he raised the cap from 5.49 to $22M for estate tax - his estate will still be writing a YUUUGE check for anything not in a trust - which was legal before he was president.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-05-15/trump-tax-overhaul-doubles-estate-tax-exemption-for-super-rich
I am going to need to understand how your coming up with that $3B number..
"Trump changed the law, we are weaker in National Defense and his estate is richer SOLELY because of Trump's change to the law" didn't we have an a spirited debate about defense spending and you felt that it was a waste ? you're flip flopping and virtue signaling.
"I appreciate making money the old fashioned way more than gaming the system." OK so you can opt out of it - if you are exploiting an inefficiency which brings you gains how is that Trumps fault? it's also bolstering our GDP as China stocks up on soybeans and crude oil.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/11/business/china-us-trade-war-surge.html
IN 2017 the US imported roughly $500B from China. Thus, in total this now represents nearly 50% of product. In other words, Trump wants to equalize trade in total dollars, and in actual tariffs. This is what free trade really is. And yet we only hear from talking heads who are either capitulating cowards or completely out of their element to understand the fundamentals of healthy free trade between countries - I have no idea what you are talking about taxation without representation.
"Ohr is very good at his job and has to be on Putin's hit list. "
yeah - his wife Nellie worked for Fusion GPS - received $44K for it
https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/status/1034484925599240192
or he was the DOJ handler for Steele - both of those things would certainly get him on the radar SD.
https://twitter.com/RepMarkMeadows/status/1034622819060076549?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1034622819060076549&ref_url= https%3A%2F%2Fwww.breitbart.com%2Fbig-government%2F2018%2F08%2F29%2Freports-bruce-ohr-testimony-reveals-more-fbi-corruption%2F
"how did Strzok get fired for using a company phone for anti-Trump texts? Especially after the FBI discipline office suggested demotion and 60-day suspension? I mean if we get fired for talking trash on company equipment, how is the King at the top of the trash pile still there? "
Why is Hillary not in prison ? it's good to be king - you get to make the rules.
we had this discussion before - I don't think he should have been fired either - they should have transferred him to an undesirable assignment.
North Korea not ending their quest for weapons. That was easy to guess. USA has not shown itself to be friendly to those that disarmed. Actions speak louder than words.
SD you're worried about Strzok losing his job when many Americans lose their jobs for petty things all the time. This isn't something new.
ianimal no argument on Hannity, he does go into conspiracy theory territory a lot. But Tucker puts liberals on all the time and they look stupid with what they spout out.
Peter Strzok violated the FBI data security policy by sending a search warrant to his personal email account.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/13/us/politics/peter-strzok-fired-fbi.html
"Strzok was also fired for his involvement in defrauding the FISC with the Carter Page FISA warrants and for making what appear to be false statements during his Congressional hearing."
https://saraacarter.com/the-real-reasons-peter-strzok-was-fired-from-the-fbi/
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2018/07/newly-released-fisa-docs-contradict-strzoks-sworn-claims-he-had-nothing-to-do-with-carter-page-fisa-warrant/
It had nothing to do with misuse of FBI resources (the phone)
@ Ianimal "The media isn't a problem at all"
I have to disagree. People who cannot gather their own facts and findings simply follow the media, meanwhile the media portrays topics in such a way to meet a political agenda, so they have the power to "sway" a crowd. There is no such thing as "unbiased" media anymore, they all use emotional triggers as well as repetition to make their points.
When all people do is sit on a couch watching the news all day, it is quite easy to become wrapped up in all the b.s.
Darrin, I don't disagree with your thought process, but I disagree with your conclusions. I blame the people who sit on the couch all day blindly believing everything they hear on the TV or read on Facebook without corroborating anything and then disseminating that information as fact.
And for the record, there never was any such thing as unbiased media. Human beings are incapable of being unbiased and the media has always been used to sway public opinion from print newspapers to radio to television and now the internet. Only the technology has changed (and the sheer VOLUME of the seemingly incessant coverage). It only becomes an issue when the media's bias doesn't agree with your own (-;
Ianimal, your concise writing style is appreciated and I wish we could all communicate as well as you do.
Following on the recent tangent, see here a Media Bias Chart:
http://www.adfontesmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Media-Bias-Chart_Version-3.1_Watermark-min-2.jpg
Like many things in life, not everyone would agree with these ratings but I think they are at least representative of the information disparity we regularly face.
IMO MSNBC and CNN should rate below the yellow box, but the fact they are at the bottom of the category is ok.
The author has an approach to the news that I think we should all consider:
http://www.adfontesmedia.com/about/
from Rassmusen: Trump Approval 48%
"The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Thursday shows that 48% of Likely U.S. Voters approve of President Trump’s job performance. Fifty-one percent (51%) disapprove.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/current_events/politics/prez_track_aug30
"SD you're worried about Strzok losing his job when many Americans lose their jobs for petty things all the time. This isn't something new." Well now I feel better, thanks Mets for yet another Captain Obvious moment where you unwittingly admit Strzok lost his job, like many Americans, for petty things. I know that's always a pick-me-up when I fire someone for a petty reason.
"North Korea not ending their quest for weapons. That was easy to guess." Really??? Why all the meetings? Why give up the right to practice War Games?
The press is our enemy, just another Trumpian red meat diversion for those who don't like the current sound of the news. There is a reason for that and it ain't liberal bias. I love the chart JIT, surprised WAPO not off the chart... Also, would love to see each half since it might show the bi-modal qualities of each "side."
Not only is there human bias, there is (as JITs chart shows) organizational bias, capitalism bias,(ratings), sexual bias, you name it. The goal is to rise above the bias and report the news.
Also, we have many more "blends" of news and opinion where the dividing lines are purposefully blurred, sometimes just for the entertainment value. Call it cable news or the news beverage division of the fruit juice network. Only 10% juice/new, 90% sugar water/opinion. Here I take exception and feel there should be a icon, lower right corner, to say "opinion," "analysis," or "wacko words" to let unaware Americans have a clue they are getting an IMO moment. Or in the case of Fox or MSNBC, go the other way and put a an icon for the rare occasion they are doing hard news.
But in terms of "enemy of the people," them's Constitutional fightin words.
https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/household-income-trump-economy/
“Economy: Median household income is up more than 4%, the economy is growing fast, optimism is at decades long highs.”
Nothing changes (surprise, surprise) anything and EVERYTHING strange disagrees with is "biased!" Waaah, waaah! Talk about a snowflake.
Talk about me lover, I'm biased for you :>)
-----------------
Pretty funny Skipsternopolis, that’s twice I listened to Donald J. Trump and now he’s thrown me under a bus….twice. I believed his campaign promise "No family will have to pay the death tax,” a statement he still makes today so you know where he is going with this. Thus the $3B (30% of 10). After the tax bill passage, he said: “we are finally ending the crushing, the horrible, the unfair estate tax” so I continued taking him at his word. I should have checked, it's Trump, I know better :-)
Apparently there was a compromise and the joint cap moved to $22M until 2024. Therefore my numbers are bogus and the rest, moot. Thanks.
PS: National Defense spending and ear marking funds to it are two different things. Just because the money goes there does not mean I support it. And virtue signaling? WTF is that…
"OK so you can opt out of it” I am sorry, what did you say about virtue? No, I don't invest based on virtue. Sorry. .
“This is what free trade really is.” Tariffs are the opposite of free trade. Established by one man alone, the tariffs are ultimately passed, as a tax, to consumers. Thus, our President, acting as a sole authority, a King, taxes us without our representatives being part of the process.
Virtue signaling - the action or practice of publicly expressing opinions or sentiments intended to demonstrate one's good character or the moral correctness of one's position on a particular issue
Ergo - I’ll take the gains presented by an efficiency in a market but then complain it’s dishonest or complaining that trump is weakening national defense by not paying a death tax.
As far as investment - Trump provided you value in the form of net gain on your comdex trade. How does that remove your representation at any level of government?
Got your definition for yas, yet another signaling term however your example neither fits the definition or accurately portrays what I said. Since the $3B was bogus, this is all moot (except for my profiteering off the King's tax instead of real effort). Very memetic of you.
Meanwhile.....“yeah - his wife Nellie worked for Fusion GPS - received $44K for it” First the meme-shaming, now you are taking a Politico writer’s tweet as news, what's next :>). Ohr knows Steele, has for decades, but he’s a pretty small fish in all this to get this much notice except by those who really notice. It is a typical story in DC, two people involved in Russia meet, get married, one works in public arena in DOJ, the other in the private sector as a country-expert. The one in DOJ has associates, spies, whatever involved with his topic: Russia. The one in the private sector works for a company that is preparing a Trump database, much of which deals in Russia --- that alone should raise some eyebrows outside of your current concerns, but heh, let's focus on the small fish... Some, like Steele, are long-term friends. And now they all have conflicts of interest. Time will tell if they exceeded the laws.
“Why is Hillary not in prison?” Maybe I need another YAS-like acronym like YOIASTHTC for You Own It All So Take Her To Court or HINPNW for Hillary is Not President, Never Was. Hillary is not in prison, if she deserves to me as you say, because your side is ineffective, incompetent, and impotent to do so...… I give you credit for perseverance though. Or is it your grudge?
“I don't think he should have been fired either” Hallelujah. Ohr either, based on today’s info, but we are losing our brain power when it comes to Russian Organized Crime…rapidly. If you believe in experience, we’ve already lost a few hundred years of experience while the brain-drain clock keeps ticking.
IMO, what you said about Strzok is true. It's in the IG report with recommendations not to fire. The “dangerous top secret info” was the Weiner indictment draft so I can understand the recommendation. Your source Sara Carter is a Fox hack and since Bowdich has not issued a statement, we know no reasons that Bowdich did not take the Discipliary Divison’s recommendation for reprimands OR followed the FBI’s normal process, as promised by Wray. Hard to find deviation of this FBI disciplinary process of NOT overreaching to personally fire Strzok. You’re right about my phone assertion for the same reasons, but the report seemed to focus on that. While Bowdich did the deed, obviously Wray authorized this seemingly politically motivated firing.
We all are owed a reason for this firing from FBI management in the spirit of transparency and accountability. Since there is a chance that is was for something really bad that was recently learned or withheld, we may never know, but even that could be said safely. The firing is legal, there is no tenure. It’s just that the method of firing is one that you would have difficulty finding another example. Optics smack of political.
Trump's witch hunt to disable the DOJ, FBI, CIA continues as long as Mueller's investigation continues. I just wonder where Trump gets his list of targets? And yes, SD lovers...., there is speculation in this tome, can you find it?
I don't think we are owed anything in a personnel matter unless Strzok wants to share them - it's not really our business. as stated above there were reasons out side of the recommendation the OPR may have fired him. we wont know unless he shares it.
we agree on the firing but for different reasons - firing him is consequences of magnitude - he has legal recourse now. pulling his clearance gun and credentials and sticking him the parking garage does not. it creates a liability on the US.
are you denying that Nellie worked for Fusion GPS? the times agrees she did - in any regard the commonality here is that people in positions of responsibility, Ohr, Strzok, Clinton, Comey need to be held just as accountable - possibly even more so for securing confidential information and upholding the standards of their office.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/02/us/politics/trump-fbi-memo.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=a-lede-package-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news
nobody is above the law
we agree he should not have been fired....there's a difference :>)
It's a public office in an organization that Trump himself has said is politicized. I think we are owned a communication. They can shield the national security facts, if any.
Of course Mrs. Ohr worked for GPS as well as others; think she worked on the Steele document too. She's a subject matter expert on the subject. That's just step one, nothing wrong yet. However, the chance for conflicts of interest abound.
Strzok, Clinton, and Comey HAVE been held accountable, in some cases, as you have agreed, wrongly IOurO :>) Only Ohr is the open case at this point. As is Russian collusion, Cohen, Manafort, Trump who have ongoing open cases, in one case --- numerous. Also, with Manafort if you bet the trifecta of crime you win: open cases on trial, convicted by jury, and locked up in jail --- all at the same time. I made more money here than on Trump's soybean fu-fa-ra (kidding).
I have no problem with people in government being held accountable. Have at it as shall I. Just need to keep perspective in the current environment to avoid hyper-politicizing non-political institutions more so than they are naturally. I mean Comey seems, according to the President, fired for that Roosia Thang. That's political talk. I find the Strzok things, as you, to be a strongly reprimandable event. Has political optics. Ohr, we'll see but seems very low on the food chain, IMO, to even be chasing from the bully pulpit of the President. Seems a tad beneath the pay grade for the Pres, even a petty petulant one. And Clinton, give it a rest ---- decided, adjudicated or just let it go. She's not coming back as any source of power. You killed her. Let it go.
"And Clinton, give it a rest ---- decided, adjudicated or just let it go. She's not coming back as any source of power"
I'll believe it when I see it....she just keeps trying and failing for office...over and over again, wouldn't put it past her to try again
Darrin, stick a fork in her... its Chelsea you have to worry about at this point (-;
You understand the difference between a political appointee that serves at the pleasure of the president - Comey and someone who has tested for and and was selected for an 1811 position and rose through the ranks under the law? Strzok has certain protections under law Comey has none.
None of us are entitled to know what is in Strzoks
Personnel file unless he decides to tell us. I expect a book to be forthcoming since he has lots of time on his hands. At that point the FOIA restrictions are lifted and it can be investigated for validity. I am actually surprised you’re on the side of outing people like that .
I am pretty sure it was Comey that politicized that depeartment when he cut the AG out of prosecutorial discretion on his clinton findings.
Once again - talk about optics - the stuff most of these people are guilty of is the appearance of impropriety and failure to be independent in their decision making. Ohr couldn’t find another SME besides his wife? Strzok couldn’t find another girlfriend and had to conduct his relationship on his job phone? He needed to send work documents to his gmail? At some point you have to ask your self - should someone who is in flagrant disregard of the policy’s they have to enforce on their reports be entrusted with critical decision making.
Bottom line - either they’re incompetent or corrupt - either way they need to go.
Here, the FBI submitted an application for a warrant based on a dossier that it knew was phony, unverified, and paid for by the Hillary Clinton campaign to secure a warrant to spy on not just any American citizen, but a member of the opposition party presidential campaign in the middle of an election. And what about that due process? Oh that's right, the judges, who are supposed to be the bulwark against abuse, didn't even bother to hold hearings.
Worse yet, we wouldn't even know about any of this if Hilary had won.
Iletw look at the statistics https://epic.org/privacy/surveillance/fisa/stats/
Agencies applied for 41,026 FISA warrants between 1979 and 2017. Of those, the FISA court rejected 81, a mere 0.019%.
They are a rubber stamp
It's time to shut this whole charade down. No more clandestine hearings. Make the prosecutors go before a district court judge or magistrate, with hearings, transcripts, and consequences to get their warrants. Make the process adversarial. Assign a group from the federal public defender's office to review the applications and challenge probable cause in court. The process must be out in the open because they've shown they can't be trusted to continue doing it in secret. Sunlight is the best disinfectant.
It's pretty obvious at this point Hillary should be prosecuted. If this were any Tom, Dick, or Harry, they'd have been put in an orange jumpsuit.
https://www.scribd.com/document/387512501/Judicial-Watch-v-FISA-Court-No-Hearings-No-Transcripts
Here is why I’m saying no hearing
“the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court held no hearings on the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) spy warrant applications targeting Carter Page, a former Trump campaign part-time advisor who was the subject of four controversial FISA warrants. “
Speculation Alert: giving you fair warning.
Old Facts: Trump inauguration raised $107M; the largest amount ever. The previous record was held by Obama at $57M in 2009, $43M in 2013. All foreign donations are illegal, by law.
1.8M attended Obama's, 8ooK attended Trump's. Trump had Toby Keith, Jon Voight, Michael Flatley, 3 Doors Down, Rockettes, The Frontmen of Country, The Piano Guys and Jackie Evancho --- MAGA for sure. Obama had Springsteen, Mary J. Blige, Bon Jovi, James Taylor, Mellencamp, Groban, Herbie Hancock, Brooks, Stevie Wonder, U2, Pete Seeger, and Beyoncé.
Trump gave $26M to Melania's friend to manage while hiring the same firm as Obama to manage the event. Charged Obama $6.5M. Melania is not friendly anymore. Gates was “shadow” chair planning and getting the big donations; the committee was presided by Tom Barrack, billionaire Middle East investor with Finance Vice Chairs Sheldon Adelson, Steve Wynn (accused of sexual abuse), Elliott Broidy (hush money payments/Playboy model), and Scaramucci (obscene but not heard).
So fine cast of characters, more money, less people, less talent...…where did the $107M come from and go to? It took $1M to attend Trump hotel’s “Leadership Luncheon” at Trump’s hotel, $500,000 to dine with Pence, and $250,000 for a Trump candlelight dinner at Union Station. Normal low level access dollars.
Speculation: Trump's inauguration committee "misplaced" over $50M from the event.
New Facts:
Andrew Intrater, CEO Columbus Nova, paid Cohen fake LLC in 2017 for a $1M “consulting”contract, affiliate company to larger one owned by Viktor Vekselberg, Andrew’s Russian oligarch cousin and Putin sycophant. Intrater donated $250,000 to Trump inauguration. Intrater and Vekselberg were among yuge Russian group of inauguration attendees, more than any other foreign nation.
At the Manafort conviction trial, Rick Gates testified in court that he possibly made off with some of the funds.
And now Sam Patten, GOP lobbyist, has turned state’s evidence admitting he steered foreign funds into the inauguration for Presidential access, so far admitting to steering $50K for four tickets. Much more to come on his involvement with the money and the Russians but now we know that Mueller knows much more about the event.
Russian Trump Inauguration celebration goers include:
Viktor Vekselberg – Oligarch good for $250K for party favors.
Leonard Blavatnik – Ukrainian-born American/British citizen was there after porking over $1M for his party favors.
Alexander Shustorovich, Russian-born American was there for $1 million in party favors. Less than 20 years ago, Republicans returned his cash for Russian government conflicts of interest
Alexander Mashkevitch, Soviet-born, in for a million. He settled his money laundering charges out-of-court with Belgium.
Natalia Veselnitskaya and Rinat Akhmetshin, Russian intelligence linked, of the famed Tower Russian Meeting was there even attending CA’s Republican Rep. Dana Rohrabacher’s, Russia-lover, party.
Boris Titov, Putin’s pick for Russian president was there
Speculation: You have tens of millions “missing” from the inauguration fund, a lot more Russians attending than other inaugurations. You have Russians and Russian ex-pats pouring big bucks into the fund. Rick Gates stealing from the fund too. Patten has admitted taking $50K from Russians as an illegal inauguration donation. And a lot of Russians, for some reason, at the parties. Question is how did each of the Russians get the $12,000+ per ticket without hitting the legal radar and where did all the money go in the new swamp we call Trumpland.
https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2012-title11-vol1/pdf/CFR-2012-title11-vol1.pdf#page=128
There are no rules limiting how the money can be used. The 2016 Inaugural Committee, like the ones before it, is not required to disclose its spending to the Federal Election Commission – only the names of those who donated
“The price of Inauguration Day and the week leading up to it could top $200 million, based on the cost of inaugurations past and estimates by officials planning the week’s events.” They also noted that the cost of security alone could be as high as $100 million. “About 28,000 personnel from three dozen state, local and federal agencies, including the Secret Service, the F.B.I. and the National Guard, will be on watch this week, and that is not cheap,”
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/17/us/politics/trump-who-pays-for-inauguration-cost.html?_r=0
so whats missing?
Remember when the MSM demanded to know where every extra penny of Obama's Inauguration fund ended up? Me neither..
https://sunlightfoundation.com/2013/01/09/after-the-inaugural-balls-where-does-extra-money-go/
this is some Rachel Maddow fake news
“I'll believe it when I see it....” aye, keep the home fires burning, laddie, keep a candle in the window. And Chelsea, not if she’s smart; the village people will burn her as a witch too.
“You understand the difference,” that’s the same for Strzok, except at the Director’s level. I think these FBI roles may be “excepted service” roles and thus not normal civil service protections. Nor sure about Ohr and his wife is private service.
Sure, there is no law on transparency for Strzok’s firing, but the optics really demand it given how “special” this firing was and how unusual the process. Not just aborting the standard process but reneging on management’s own statement of process.
Who cares who politicized the organization. If that’s what’s happening, they should take extraordinary measures to stop it. If Comey did it, obviously Trump has overshadowed him with his firing alone much less all the tweets. FYI Ohr didn’t hire his wife as an SME --- Fusion did.
No, they don’t need to go; reprimand is what the process calls for, as you agreed with Strzok. Ohr is tbd based on the evidence that unfolds.
“They are a rubber stamp.” You may be right but cannot state that based on the evidence. If you looked at my record for stealing $1M budgets, you would see an overwhelming success, based on the results. Fact is I did not go for approval unless I knew I had it in advance. And yet, still lost a couple.
Judicial Watch is a questionable right-wing media bias source, off the chart to be exact, so move on unless you have a second --- not biased --- source.
“Here, the FBI submitted an application for a warrant based on a dossier that it knew was phony, unverified, and paid for by the Hillary Clinton campaign to secure a warrant to spy on not just any American citizen, but a member of the opposition party presidential campaign in the middle of an election.” As we are talking recent Russian investigation firings, not sure where you are going with this point. However, it has not been determined what is phony or not about the Steele documents. Plus, the Steele dossier did not launch the FISA application, it is part of the application. And the Russian investigation launch, that’s Papadopoulos. You’re just fixated on the Trump fake deep state faker tweet stuff fakest fostered by Meadows and Nunes. Also, the Steel dossier was funded initially by Republicans.
First up was The Washington Free Beacon, funded by a Marco Rubio supporter, until May 2016 who funded Fusion GPS to start compiling on Donald J. Trump. That's May of the November election year. Then, the DNC’s law firm, Perkins Cole picked up the mantle and Steele was hired for the Russian component. The DNC paid for Perkins Cole services but there is no smoking gun of Hillary’s involvement, knowledge, nor illegal reporting of payments for either her or Rubio beyond your assumptions.
You might have a glimmer of a point re the Steele Document and the Cater Page FISA application, but pretty sure, based on your own assumptions as well, that it would have flown without the dossier anyways.
Are we caught up? :>)
Judicial watch posted the original document on ScribdD - they are not the source - you don’t get to deny reality because you don’t like where it came from.
Sorry Skipster, whenever I see sources that are off-the-bias measuring scale complete with a heavy hand on the fake news scale (and before other SD watchers scream “you too,” I have numbers….:>), I can’t even skim then for correction anymore, ain’t worth the click.
OK, we have two topics here, neither of which seems germane to FBI malfeasance or whatever we had been discussing unless you're going with deep state targeting of Carter Page in order to nail Trump as being a no no. Given Carter Page's history, that's just legal fine lines. Viewing Carter Page before the surveil, IMO most Joe America's would say "listen in to the Russians for this guy....".
First topic though: legally, can the FISA court operate without hearings?
Title 5, Rule 17: "The Judge to whom a matter is presented or assigned must determine whether a hearing is necessary and, if so, set the time and place of the hearing." http://www.fisc.uscourts.gov/sites/default/files/FISC%20Rules%20of%20Procedure.pdf
“judge…..must determine whether a hearing is necessary.”Remember, transparent surveillance is not surveillance….. :>(
As to is FISA fair and just; remember 9/11. That's why we have FISA, right or wrong. Remember FISA needs a foreign asset to surveil, it can not operate with just American citizens. That said, should it be more like our other court surveillance warrants? Perhaps. Should it be exactly tike them: no. That's a discussion that's well beyond Carter Page.
Unless you got more, FISA operated within the letter of the law from the time it was created. Judicial Watch has an interesting point, but as a point of law for Carter Page (and Flynn) they have a nothing burger.
NTWorry --- Trump fixed FISA in January; I read the tweet today, oh boy.
What is that, ready, fire, aim? I show you a huge honeypot, the most Russians of any inauguration ever, a guy admitting in court he probably took some of the honeypot, a guy pleading guilty in directing Russian funds into the honeypot, $26M spent on a friend for nothing in return, and more and I ask: “how did each of the Russians get the $12,000+ per ticket without hitting the legal radar and where did all the money go in the new swamp we call Trumpland.”
Your initial response is 1) it’s legal, 2) an pre-inauguration apples comparison in a orange world, 3) how about Obama and 4) Rachel Maddow fake news.
1. It is legal under the law, except for the illegal parts I mentioned. That does not make it right or unquestionable. Like revealing your taxes, it should be just something that one does for transparency. Team Trump said they would be forthcoming, we are talking around $50M leftover, but I fear it is like the taxes, all over again.
2. You added the government matching funds and expenses above and beyond the donations, apples and oranges, and then posted a NYT article done before the event which concluded: “It will be difficult to compare costs until after the week is over.” How about the story coming after the event: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/15/us/politics/trumps-inaugural-committee-paid-26-million-to-first-ladys-friend.html which shows over $100M coming in, and just over $50M going out with another $5M to charity. The other costs, borne by the taxpayer, are listed too so you can see the oranges, the apples, etc.
3. I believe Obama has documented his funding and expenditures; the funding amounts are 50% of Trump’s, the event much larger, it’s obvious Obama spent about what Trump did and therefore would have far less leftover.
4. RM did spearhead much of this dialogue. Hats off to a free press since I believe this story still has legs. Mueller knows what Patten/Gates know and Patten/Gates knows this honeypot. Let’s face it, RM already helped understand Gate’s testimony and Patten’s plea bargain over misusing this honeypot which would have been like from outer space without her reporting.
Where I am bemused is that with all this money, all this missing money, all these Russians attending but illegal for them to donate to get those front row seats, all those admitted illegal dips into the honeypot, that you don’t come away with ---- “interesting, perhaps we should investigate.” More flabbergasting is your premise, it’s legal, what about Obama, fake news, move on.
I mean I gave you the mulligan for Ohr n wife and said investigate on.
You do know that Russia is an adversarial nation, right? As in they do things against our interests that actually hurt. You do realize that they have been economically and physically against us for almost a century? That most of our missiles are pointed their way and, if Russia disappeared tonight we could have less missiles, soldiers, etc. immediately. I can understand giving them a fair shake, a chance to change. I am sure the people are just super and that it's the Putin government. I just can't see why you support letting them into the living room if you know they just want to crap on our carpet and wipe themselves on our curtains.
Nope, I say this story has legs and RM will put them to use, tyvm RM.
Lol on the crap and curtains - all I can say is we shall see what Muller comes up with. I am certainly not pro Russia - I just think this whole thing is a dog whistle purprpotrated by the Partisan media (alt left and right) to drive ratings. Once again the 4th estate has failed us.
I get that the Judge has the discretion not to hold a hearing - but much like you said about transparency it’s something that a prudent person would do due to the gravity of the situation and the players involved.
"I can say is we shall see what Muller comes up with." And that's all one might ask...
except for Mueller in my case :>)
Although as I unceasingly, unendingly, and with massive amounts of verbiage, point out --- it sure seems weird to have all these Russians hanging about, going to meetings, setting up communications backchannels to skirt US intelligence, bringing the NRA over for a gun-love-in, sleeping with them, living with them, lying for them, living in our towers, our condos, and golf clubs, taking their dollars, marrying communists, and now, getting the red carpet treatment at the inauguration, and more. Not that there's anything wrong with that except in the cases they are already going to jail, already in jail, or turning state's evidence for being guilty.
Yeah, it sure seems weird to me yet I too can wait for Mueller and hope you get your Ohr family separation investigation :>) Meanwhile, I am glad Maddow sunk her teeth into this one like a junkyard dog. I mean I never would have noticed that picture of all the Russians at the inauguration, (Maddow did not have this I think) that just floored me and I honestly think her broadcasting and sticking to this one might have helped uncover Patten. It is good a good example of good reporting. .
Meanwhile the number of Trump associates being indicted, going to jail, pleading out with guilty for things Russian keeps growing. More witches from the hunt every day.
Looks like Little Rocket Man is not going to give up his little rockets after all..
And Donald J Trump is not giving up his newly adopted 500 kids either. Matter of fact, he's trying to get the courts to grant him longer jail times, oooops, I mean more hot's n cot's ---- I forgot ---- being incarcerated is a good thing for many alt-righters here.
Yeah, yeah, that's the ticket...
3 hots n a coat ----- better than momma
locked up ---- better than collusion
lying ---- it's what we do, unless you work for Trump then you can't hide your name
hush money ---- it's not just for breakfast anymore
Russians ---- they're everywhere but they're not that bad
Deep State --- they're everywhere, even my appointments
Mexicans ---- they're all rapists & murderers, except the guys who mow MaraLoser
MS13 ---- they're everywhere, a wall will stop them....
Kids --- lock em up, it build character
Hillary --- where the true fault lies, lock her up
Yeah, yeah, that's the ticket.
DATELINE: Trumpland…..how I spent my summer vacation….
June 13, “Just landed - a long trip, but everybody can now feel much safer than the day I took office. There is no longer a Nuclear Threat from North Korea. Meeting with Kim Jong Un was an interesting and very positive experience. North Korea has great potential for the future!”
Phew, we are safe at last! Thank goodness for our President.
July 3, “Many good conversations with North Korea-it is going well! In the meantime, no Rocket Launches or Nuclear Testing in 8 months. All of Asia is thrilled. Only the Opposition Party, which includes the Fake News, is complaining. If not for me, we would now be at War with North Korea!”
Of course, the talks went badly, Un was still pursuing nuclear warheads and missiles.
Aug 24: ““I feel we are not making sufficient progress with respect to the denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula.”
And he pulls Pompeo from the talks. Mission unaccomplished.
Sept 9: “North Korea has just staged their parade, celebrating 70th anniversary of founding, without the customary display of nuclear missiles. Theme was peace and economic development. “Experts believe that North Korea cut out the nuclear missiles to show President Trump...... .its commitment to denuclearize.” @FoxNews This is a big and very positive statement from North Korea. Thank you To Chairman Kim. We will both prove everyone wrong! There is nothing like good dialogue from two people that like each other! Much better than before I took office.”
Nothing like a good parade to soothe the savage soul. If either gent actually had a soul……
Yesterday, Sarah says: ““The recent parade in North Korea, for once, was not about their nuclear arsenal…” “The president has achieved tremendous success with his policies so far. And this letter was further evidence of progress in that relationship.”
And a one, and a two…..
”Lonely days are gone, I'm a-goin' home
My Rocketman, just-a wrote me a letter
Well, he wrote me a letter
Said he couldn't live without me no more
Listen mister, can't you see I got to get back
To my Rocketman once-a more” (apologies to The Boxtops)
Having totally lost site of our objective, we decided to double our efforts…… You can’t make this stuff up.
Dateline: Texas
Sept 6, 416 kids still not reunited with parents, 304 of the parents already deported without their kids, 14 are under 5-years old, supposedly 199 waived rights to be reunited; most of these are going to court for coercion.
SD what did Obama or his predecessors do? Nothing. Even if this turns into a failed effort at least Trump tried. Time to take your horse blinders off.
While I like comparisons, in actuality, what matters is what we are doing in this case, because what we did was very bad, very wrong.
Actually though, in comparison, Obama did much better than Trump.....on the numbers....and on the compassion....
"Obama holds the record for deporting more immigrants than any president, with more than 2 million deportations over eight years — though he scaled back enforcement in the last two years of his administration"
"Obama in 2014 took a mostly punitive approach to border crossers. Trump in 2018 took an entirely punitive one. But Obama was reacting partly to circumstances; Trump was reacting solely to his own desires."
"Reversion to the Obama-era norm isn’t what the Trump administration wanted, though. The president took a ton of pride in the low number of border crossings in the early months of his term — he kept bragging about it even as apprehensions crept back up in fall of 2017. When he started realizing that people were still coming in to seek asylum, he got upset that the US couldn’t just shut down the border — and pushed into action a policy agenda that would crack down on anyone trying to come to the US without papers, especially if they crossed into the country illegally."
A comparison for you: https://www.vox.com/2018/6/21/17488458/obama-immigration-policy-family-separation-borders.
" Even if this turns into a failed effort at least Trump tried." If that's your metric for success, gosh save you. First, he didn't have to do anything; the numbers were only up because they were at their lowest levels in decades. The real concern prompting this action was Don's pride. Petty, petulant, prideful reaction. And Sessions and his immigration Nazi's had the cure ready in hand. They had a deterrence that was cater-made to generate a "we are tough" message of cruelty that would be heard world-wide.
Second, as I have said, the solution is relatively easy: make e-verify standard for all companies and illegal immigration problem virtually solved. No work, no come for most of these crossers. For asylum seekers, immediately vet and return fakers (we do that today), put the rest in the court system, give em a bracelet, you will get approx. 95% return to court for final disposition. The 5% is probably mostly mis-communication failures. At least that's been the experience.
This is a more effective, efficient, and economic program without the scar of being the bully who rips kids from mommas' arms and tosses them into jail just because Trump got all worked up to the point where you figuratively threw the baby out with the bath water.
Don’t think the Electoral College is gonna give the serial Molester much of a lift in November.
"Second, as I have said, the solution is relatively easy: make e-verify standard for all companies and illegal immigration problem virtually solved. No work, no come for most of these crossers."
Won't work, SD. They are cheap labor, and companies like cheap labor. So here is how it works.
You hire them. Make 100m profit. Govt watches for 3 years building a case, everyone getting paid to observe and document, they profit. Police come, they profit. Court case, they profit. Govt fines 30m, they profit-financially and also in the media as they are "enforcing the law, removing criminals." Illegals get tossed back. Net profit for company is 70m, Govt makes 30m and looks like "heroes", they profit. Taxpayer and consumer pays for the whole show.
I had posted that these companies should be seized, all assets, and owners not sheltered with corporate laws, but some on the forum called that "tyranny." A law without teeth is a very expensive joke, and corporations have very good protections in place.
SD all that drivel you just wrote and I was only talking about Trump's efforts with NK... Man you need some ADHD meds or something...
So sorry that your complete lack of clarity placed a verbose fog on my response which appears, in turn, to have gotten your knickers severely knotted to the point that you believe your cure is to give me drugs. Perhaps the drivel starts at home if you are so emotionally frustrated over your own communications abilities.
But, in answer your now-explained originally confused query: sanctions, Obama used the same ones Trump claims credit for, and not much else. Thus Obama saved all those wasted travel bucks Trump wasted returning absolutely zero results except a great photo op for Un. An inferior ROI to Obama's investment.
For all the money he's wasted on NK, not to mention the angst he gifted to millions over there with his chaos diplomacy style, he's gotten a great photo op for Un, and gotten absolutely nothing for the US and ROW except a bag of bones, still unidentified at this point.
Now, on this one, I say Trump should stay the course in that he may actually get a win here IF that's Un's plan all along. But Trump going deeper, going higher, does up the risk of Trump going total Serena upon failure and entirely destroying the region because he's peeved at his poor results. Unless, of course, his trusted lie-detected, Trump selected, superior quality yet loyal staff hides the secret launch codes from him :>)
Stand by you man, Mets, you know Melania forgives him, why not you. And let me know when you want a serious discussion instead of just lobbing the name calling stuff you do across the transom. I do not suffer from ADHD because you can't write well.
How about you let some time elapse kind of like you want for the Russia investigation...
“serious discussion”
You admitted in an earlier post that you’re just fine with speculation. As you know, it’s my view that most of your Trump-Russian collusion posts are mere speculation until legitimate authorities have conducted their transparent investigations.
So I’m curious, is that how you define “serious discussion”, speculative dialog?
Jit: No I didn’t, no they aren’t, and fact-based unlike your mistatement of fact, as noted.
I would elaborate more but we know you are just baiting me for effect and argument by mistateing what you obviously read carefully.
I will pass tyvm.
"If you look at Saddam Hussein, he killed terrorists. I'm not saying he was an angel, but this guy killed terrorists." Trump
“They ought to look into Judge Curiel, because what Judge Curiel is doing is a total disgrace,”" Trump
"The U.S. cannot allow EBOLA-infected people back. People that go to far away places to help out are great - but must suffer the consequences!" Trump
"When you see the other side chopping off heads, waterboarding doesn't sound very severe." Trump
"(It) has been stated by numerous legal scholars, I have the absolute right to PARDON myself" Trump
“Our current libel laws are a sham and a disgrace and do not represent American values or American fairness.” Trump (So let's change the libel laws so you can't lie about me by telling the truth anymore.)
“Two long running, Obama era, investigations of two very popular Republican Congressmen were brought to a well publicized charge, just ahead of the Mid-Terms, by the Jeff Sessions Justice Department. Two easy wins now in doubt because there is not enough time. Good job Jeff.” Trump
“Many people have said, ‘You should fire him (Sessions)” Trump
“I still believe we have the institutions of government that would restrain someone who seeks to exceed their constitutional obligations,” Mr. McCain said. “We have a Congress. We have the Supreme Court. We’re not Romania.”
Not yet...….
And SD continues with his Trump Derangement Syndrome.... You need to get some help buddy...
I owe, I owe, it’s off to tax cut I go. Buy some plains, take corporate tax profit gains, I owe, I owe....
Keep that yuge deficit feeding the debt while you piss on your Chinese lenders with great abandon. Living the good life ain’t ya.
You say I’m derranged? What are your plans for the largest debt in history; larger than Obama's and he had The Great Recession to deal with. Larger than WWII’s and, well, they had a WW to pay for.
As you cut and spend us to death, you got any plans whatsoever to even deal with this, much less solve it? Or you just stupid silent on this most important question of the economy?
Honest question:
At what point do you decide to quit cutting taxes for corporations and the top .0005% and make our bridges safe, our rails efficient and our roads passable.
Or does that also go on the credit bill to be paid by our children?
I’m sure the Orange Coward has a plan....
(Hmmm, bankruptcy how many times???)
On Netflix, is a very interesting documentary called “We’re Not Broke”. It’s several years old but still relevant, especially now. It’s only an hour long. Kind of scary, how we are following a similar pattern that led to the fall of the Roman Empire and the Great Depression. Watch it....it’s an eye opener and a confirmation of what may be troubling a lot of folks, lately.
Did you expect in a year and a half that the national debt would be eliminated? It’s Obama’s fault its as high as it is and that was with taxing us more than what we currently pay. Let’s see where we are around 2020. And Stymie the statement that this is a tax cut for the rich is hilarious. Taxes were cut across the board. Poor people don’t pay taxes. Whatever comes out of their paychecks goes back to them come tax season. Sure the middle class didn’t suddenly get tons of money, but it works out to an extra cart of groceries for my family every month. That’s hardly insignificant. Then you’ll say it isn’t a permanent cut. Yea because the yahoo Democrats you support didn’t vote for the bill. Had enough voted for it, it would have been permanent. And look at NJ… Most overtaxed state in the country. The economy here is crap. Businesses have been moving out of here for years. The only people who do well here are the rich and the upper fringes of the middle class. Everyone else is just surviving.
@SD "Keep that yuge deficit feeding the debt while you piss on your Chinese lenders with great abandon. Living the good life ain’t ya. "
According to you, adding to the deficit was a good thing during the 8 years of obummer, you said so yourself......now it is suddenly a "yuge" problem?
Fact check......Obamma added $1.652 trillion in his first year....you said nothing...everything was GREAT...yet Trump plans on adding $1.233 trillion...($419,000,000,000 LESS then your self proclaimed hero did in his first year) and that is HUGE OMG HOW COULD HE News???!!!!!
Seriously dude?
Darrin, you really don't understand the difference between necessary deficit spending when the economy was in a huge recession teetering on a depression in order to keep people working and being able to feed their families and now continuing to spend a trillion dollars more than the government is taking in when the economy is at full strength... primarily to give huge tax breaks to himself and his buddies?
If you don't think we should pay down the debt during exceptional economic times, then when should we?
I understand it just fine ianimal, thank you for asking.
What you do not seem to understand or know is that I do not agree with the apparent common conception that just because someone "makes a lot of money" they should have to pay a higher percentage of taxes to the government then everyone else....and I also do not agree with just because someone does not make a lot of money, they should get to pay nothing. I am all for leveling the playing field.
Unemployment is at a all time low. When we were in the recession, there were jobs, but we were too busy giving them to other people because "we" did not want to work them...maybe because government funding is just so easy to get...and so much easier then working.....maybe something else....
Ianimal the recovery took place during the early part of Obama’s term. Why didn’t he do something to stop the bleeding? We’re a year and a half into Trumps term. Judge him at the end of it.
Sssssh, numbers confuse them. Let them have their emotional economy.
Wait, the debt is Obamas but the great economy is Trumps? Unfair but unbalanced that is.
Equal percentage income tax seems “fair” to Darrin when, mathematically, it’s a regressive tax unfairly taxing the working poor a disproportionate amount. Look it up. Or do the math Even looks worse when you look at discretionary dollars which, of course, one must look at when measuring fairness.
Or you can just spew some living off the dole fake facts, check off the win and move on. Or tell us to be patiemt, its Obama’s fault that you own the latgest debt in history and you continue to borrow at some of the highest rates ever during the best economy ever.
Having complained about Obama’s debt being too high, we decided to best him by running it higher, faster than he could ever do it. Hey, remember Atlantic City; I know debt. And there's always my pal Vlad just waiting to help us out......for a price.
Strangerdanget You guys are right. Emotional diatribe is more fun than a fact-based discussion. Carry on.
Actually, he did stop the bleeding somewhat... and I'm by no means a fan of Obama. But, he did get the budget deficit all the way "down" under $500B in FYs 2014 and 2015, before creeping back up slightly in 2016 and 2017.
US Federal Spending Deficits in billions
2009 - $1,413
2010 - $1,294
2011 - $1,295
2012 - $1,087
2013 - $679
2014 - $485
2015 - $438
2016 - $585
2017 - $665
However, the economy is better than its ever been (according to Trump) so WHY would we need to run HUGE deficits for 2018? If you want to cut taxes, fine... but in an economy like this, you also need to cut spending even more... not increase spending on top of lowering taxes. That's insane.
The actual factual reason is Trump’s tiny character always gets in the way of good governong. He wanted cuts, it was his promise, they sell well, be damned the numbers. But he could only be satisfied if the cuts were bigger than Reagan’s. And his defense spending was even bigger. He had to be bigger, be damned the numbers, be darned the effects.
And then be sold the rubes on trickle down without them being smart enough to figure how much we would have to be making up for spending deficits while waiting for it. Bad math that is. I mean he’s at 100% employment telling the rubes he’s bringing factory jobs and they can’t figure out there’s no one left to take the new jobs....The number of new jobs, lower than Obamas. The great quarterly GDP growth rates, we had higher under Obama.
Its all great advertising for an empty suit.
And how do you rack up 1 trillion in debt during this kind of year unless you are burning cash needlessly at the Federal level via tax cuts. Heck, he had to rob $10m from FEMA just to support his tiny character tent cities to house our new 500 forced separation now orphaned American Latino citizens.
Its just crazy.
A turd by any other name is still a turd. One may be runny and the other mushy, but that’s simply small degrees of seperation.
Just the fact we’re talking deficits says trillions.
I dunno. Seems there’s a lot of people accepting the polish job on this turd as being something altogether different. Even tasty!
And for the record, I did not love Obama's debt but I understood and appreciated that he began the process of starting to reign it in.
We should get back to that instead of the total abandonment budgeting we have now. We have decades of thrift in front of us to fix this and entitlements. Let’s get to work.
That’s fine and dandy but given the past decades of duopoly rule can you produce any evidence whatsoever that members of either major party are interested in getting debts under control?
As you consider your answer think about ianimal’s post above; he’s talking about one turd’s small improvements in *deficit* only - the money we have to borrow just to make our monthly payment on the previous money we’ve borrowed. How can anyone look at the past 45 years and think that getting debts under control is on anyone’s agenda?
I know I’m a broken record about this, but I’ll maintain that what both party’s are doing is a requirement of our monetary system. A feature if you will. Ours is a system that mandates continuous growth because any contraction necessarily removes money from the economy, meaning someone will be poorer. We all know who that will be (not the rich).
No, a turd is and will always be a turd.
I do agree with your turd philosophy, even a polished turd is just a turd, but I donot agree with much else. First, deficit is greater spending than receipts in a given planning year. It is not solely used to pay off debt interest premiums. Second, the monetary system does not force anyone to create a Federal Account debt. You can have Federal debt in a fixed-asset monetary system, no problem.
They only difference is whether the money supply is fixed to an asset like Gold or not. In either case, further debt can be created based on "our good name," if we so choose and investors believe.
I think Jackson was the only one to pay off the debt, and that's in 1835.
When it comes to debt, I will use the deficits, percentage wise, and the winners are: Reagan (157% increase), Bush (57%), Obama (57%), Bush (36%), Carter (36%) and those who "lowered the amount of increase" the most are Clinton (1% DECREASE) and Coolidge (26% DECREASE) ---- at least these last two guys tried. Obama too lowered the rate of increase, but frankly, too little, too late to be in the same camp as Clinton and Bush ---- plus with his continuation of the Bush tax cuts, nope ---- he's a major increaser first, then and only then, attempting to do the right thing.
FDR was over 186% in debt increase to fight The Great Depression, perhaps putting Obama's move into perspective.
https://www.thebalance.com/deficit-by-president-what-budget-deficits-hide-3306151
Dollar-wise, Obama clearly in the grand winner.
When it comes to debt reduction, it's been 50 years since we bothered to pay down the debt. Truman made 3 payments, Eisenhower made two. Beyond that I think only Obama and Clinton have lowered the rate of increase ---- for Clinton that's a sin not to pay down some debt. For Obama, that's a brave man doing the right thing at a very, very tough time to do it. But he should have gone full stream and balanced the budget.
https://blog.josephscott.org/2009/03/26/presidents-that-have-reduced-the-federal-debt/
Admittedly there are many ways to measure our debt as well as the conundrum of when to start counting against each President who is handed a finished budget as they enter the office. So, time-wise, count by inauguration date or start one year later? And then there's the "what is zero debt" debate saying some amount of debt, like unemployment, will always be in the system so is zero really zero? Likewise, at what portion of GDP is debt even relevant, another debatable question as to the nature of zero debt.
No matter how you count it, it's too high right now. The monetary system, IMO, does not force that, fiscal and financial discipline forces it. And we have no discipline at the moment having giving up the glimmer of a chance that Obama provided. Worse yet, we were conned into believing a tax cut to the rich and corporate would somehow trickle down and fire up the economy while we continue to spend like a drunk in a whorehouse. Didn't work before and won't again.
You know the debt is terrible when I applaud a decrease in the increase of the deficit; that's a bogus achievement really if you're trying to reduce the debt. But if you look at the Federal expenditures in the pic I posted, you can see the craziness The Great Recession caused, you can see Obama trying to put the brakes on, and Trump just putting the pedal back to the metal. Now consider his tax cut on top of this spending and you can see, one thing is not the same as the other, and we are screwed but won't be smiling.
Now add in total debt, credit, and you can see a reckoning coming with the guy at the top totally ill-equipped, undermanned, and without any financial resources to help us out when that day comes.
The question was:
“...can you produce any evidence whatsoever that members of either major pajrty are interested in getting debts under control?”
If I understand your answer then I think we are in agreement about spending being partisan-blind.
Btw, I like your FRED graph but it has been stripped of its source. Can you please provide the link?
The reason I ask is because the scale it’s drawn at is misleading about the true scope of the problem. I’d like to provide the same graph style but with the entire date range. I think the real issue will be glaringly obvious in that case and jump from the page.
Anyone who believes that Barry offered a glimmer of hope at debt containment or reduction with the 9-10 trillion he added to the historical debt of 10 trillion to date from 1776, should never answer questions from the FBI.
Think I showed a few attempts. The thing I stick on is these parties, or even the people in them, are not the same. Nor are the conditions they face. So to conclude there are seems a simplistic rationale to avoid the complexity of reality.
Nor do I think spending is partisan blind, and not all spend the same amount, or the same way. Sorry about the chart --- it is Federal Spending, hopefully in constant dollars, from FRED. But I saved n pasted before I noticed the stripping. The left tail was flat, added nothing except to make the right tail a straight line, hockey stick style. What I edited to shows the differences amongst the more recent Presidents when it comes to spending.
You can see the Obama spike, you can see him trying to taper, and you can see us off to the races again starting 2016 (which is really Obama).
Ah, you're lucky --- here is the unedited: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FGEXPND
And here's the 1992 start date covering the most recent Presidents, again, showing The Great Recession effect, the attempt to ramp down, and now, under Mr. Business Donald J. Trump, we're off to the races. That's before you pile the tax cuts on top giving you an idea how screwed we are with Trump's deficit.
The man was always good at losing other people's money.
Mixing subjects SD. Your first graph’s data started at about 1900 or so and it looks like the portion shown is only for the past 18 years. notice how in that relatively short time period whatever that index is more than doubled, about 2.4x. If you can post the entire range we could then see how quickly the doubling time is changing (compressing). Big picture that data confirms things aren’t great at all.
Anyway, the link you posted is for an unrelated data series and for a much smaller time frame. Would be very interested in where you found that first one so we can dig into it more.
I see NY elected (primary) another "Democratic Socialist".... I figured Cortez was a fluke, but no- they've lost their collective minds. I don't think they understand what socialism actually is- all they have to do is look at Venezuela to see how well it works.
So, is this the future of the democrat party? Even further left? Any more left than this, and you actually are moving into communism territory. It'll make the GOP look like democrats LOL.
In other news, Facebook BANS the leader of the #JustWalkAway movement. (this is the movement encouraging democrats to walk away from the current democrat party because they have lost their collective minds; this has not been "your grandparent's democrat party" for a very long time) Facebook is turning into FascistBook.
All this is so fascinating... some dems had to vote for Trump in order for him to win. Dems who no doubt identify with the message of the #JustWalkAway movement. If the republicans do well in November elections, I wonder if the D party will double-down on socialism or pull back to common sense? And if the dems do well in November, buckle up, because it's going to get very ugly very fast. The canyon between left and right is being driven even further apart, intentionally, by the left at the moment. You can't say by Trump- because as I said, no way he wins without some dems voting for him. He appealed to middle America- and by middle I don't mean income, I mean dems who aren't socialists and repubs who aren't being represented by the GOP anymore.
Interesting time to be alive, politically. I just hope IF the dems do not do well in november, there aren't riots and violence... already had a democratic socialist threaten to mass-shootup a MAGA event.... a college professor shot HIMSELF "in protest of Trump" LOL.... and of course there was the left-wing shooter at the senate baseball game. What's next?
Yeah, yeah.
Let’s all vote Republican so the White Nationalists
can “keep us safe”,“maintain order” and retain our “purity” like Europe in the 30’s.
Remember, when you point a finger, there’s always three pointing back at you.
"Let’s all vote Republican"
Who said that? I certainly didn't. That's part of your problem: you are PROJECTING.
Trump voter automatically = racist, bigot, homophobe, religious nut, white nationalist, etc.
You guys really need to get over that problem if you ever want to exercise critical thought. If you ever WANT to....
Ghost in FRED's machine JIT... I am pretty sure it's the same data, different start dates. Federal expenditures. Wants to save in some weird extension file, but you can shift to .png or something which I gather is why stuff gets stripped. Think both versions I post were same date, the first one had a later start time (left side of axis), the second one I started in 1992. Again, I think if you go farther back you just get a flat tail because the amounts are so, so, much smaller. Guess that says something right there about the size n scope of government.
Meanwhile... " I figured Cortez was a fluke" If you had looked you would see the DSA has a number of candidate in the race in a number of places beyond NYS. If they had claimed "Independent," like Bernie, you would have branded them Socialists anyways, just like you did Bernie.
But it's nice to see you've moved beyond your Euro Socialist shaming on to Venezuela shaming; much lower class of country. Of course, you left out all the failed Democracies, many puppets to us, in the same region....
Even an idiot realizes that there are some pretty nice countries that are based on Socialism; your fractured fairy tale of the domino theory of Socialism to Communism is your myth, a lie. Matter of fact, a number have higher quality of life stats than we do. Certainly they all have better access to healthcare than we do.
Perhaps, 'You guys really need to get over that problem if you ever want to exercise critical thought" by actually looking at what policies and platforms the DSA candidates support instead of jumping to the hate wagon by branding with your guilt by association shortcuts to critical though that you expressed here.
With more critical thought, you come up with: "The canyon between left and right is being driven even further apart, intentionally, by the left at the moment" determining that it's all our fault. Takes two to tango my friend. Now there's some critical thinking for you :>)
Fact is you have the worst Presidential polling numbers ever for the bestest economy evers….according to your pussy-grabbing King. How do you do you blame the Democrats for that scenario? Maybe by a guy who only reaches across the aisle to hand grenades? In the realm of "what has this guy done for us," even with the economy, we're in negative territory.
Sorry buddy. Think you will need to gin up the Pelosi hate machine because she's coming and Elton will be singing her inauguration song:
"I'm a bitch, I'm a bitch oh, the bitch is back
Stone cold sober as a matter of fact
I can bitch, I can bitch 'cause I'm better than you
It's the way that I move, the things that I do oh" (Taupin/John)
I have not been a Pelosi fan since 2010 and what she had done to you for two years. Now I can't wait.
Here comes Slimey again... Yeah I will vote Republican because the Democrats have lost their minds.... When did Republican start equaling white nationalist.... You're a piece of work dude...
Ah, the name caller returns...…
For the record, and maybe you want to take notes, we, at HLife do not say: "Trump voter automatically = racist, bigot, homophobe, religious nut, white nationalist, etc."
We say: racist, bigot, homophobe, religious nut, white nationalist, etc. automatically = Trump voter.
There is a yuge difference, albeit from a nuance of your putting the cart before the horse.
Manafort to plead guilty today hoping to reduce his sentence We don't know if there's any flipping to really shrink it down.
"All in all it's just another brick in the wall."
Most corrupt campaign and administration.....ever.
Oh no, Manafort will collude with Mueller. Don Jr. Is toast unless Don Sr acts quick. But how can he pardon a flipper?
If it’s Friday....
Gonna be an interesting weekend at the West Wing.
I think if Manafort had anything that would save him from the first 15 month legal trial, he would have offered up and used it already.
I'm not worried at all about Manafort cooperating, because I don't think theres anything for him to cooperate about.
Mueller has access to every text, email, phone record, and has interviewed hundreds of people who were involved with the campaign. If there was any trace of collusion, it would have been publicized by now. Paul Manafort isn't going to reveal some grand conspiracy at this point.
So we should probably hear what George Papadapalous and Carter Page have to say about the suspicious meetings that they were drawn into with figures linked to western intelligence and the Clintons, who were asking leading questions about Russian emails.
after watching the investigation unfold slowly over the past two years - It started with leaks from the FBI and IC, and has continued to periodically invigorate it with selective leaks. Everyone has been trying to find or show collusion, no one has been able to do it. Why would I think it's getting more likely to happen now?
Carter Page was the first one to call the Dossier a fabricated piece of trash, and that has borne out quite well in retrospect. Not one piece of it alleging collusion or conspiracy has been verified. We all made fun of him when he would go on media tours without a lawyer and just lay out everything he knew and thought - but he's not being charged with anything, and he hasn't been shown to be wrong about anything - and he's right about the dossier.
In re:"suspicious meetings."
Read any of the interviews George Papadapalous has given over the past week. He denies ever discussing Hilary Clinton Emails/Dirt with Alexander Downer, which is the whole supposed lynchpin and impetus of this entire investigation. Downer is linked to the Clintons, Stephan Halper - the paid confidential informant who made contacts with Page/Papa and asked them to tell him about Russia's hacking has extensive ties to western intelligence, here he is in the UK giving a speech on geopolitics skip to the end and watch him sit down next to Alexander Downer and joke around with him.
https://vimeo.com/59137878
Joseph Misfud, who the FBI says is a "Kremlin linked professor" has ties to western intelligence / MI6 - he was a professor at a school in Rome that taught spycraft to europeans and regularly attends diplomatic events - if the FBI / MI6 actually thought he was "kremlin linked" he would never be in that position.
Papadapalous has started to be more vocal about it, check out his twitter feed. There was no reason for Downer to reach out to him, for Misfud to reach out to him, for Halper to make contact with him - some organization or entity directed them to, and we know the FBI was handling Halper, so the question is who was handling Downer and Misfud.
https://twitter.com/GeorgePapa19
"Ah, the name caller returns...…"
says StrangerDanger????
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Good one, SD. And you can argue semantics all you want, you're the same as Stymie: projecting your opinions onto others instead of searching for truth. Because that's the only way to make the world the way you want it to be, to play your narrative, to fit your confirmation bias. Same old sh1t with you. Which is why I ignore you most of the time these days, you're a lost cause and not worth the effort. I've told you before: willfully ignorant is no way to go through life.
Yeah..."Let’s all vote Republican so the White Nationalists"
Comments like that gain you zero respect and certainly no credibility.....
Kind of funny... When you google Stymie it means "to prevent or hinder the progress of". Yeah that's exactly what the Democratic party does to minorities. And then you look up StrangerDanger.... which comes up as "the idea or warning that all strangers can potentially be dangerous". You two guys picked some winning screennames. LOL...
Skippy et al, you’re probably right on Manafort’s plea bargain. Mueller probably took the deal even though, like many believe, Manafort had nothing of value to offer since, you’re probably right, there’s no there, there. Mueller, based on his progress thus far, knows he doesn’t stand a chance of winning so getting nothing in return for a guilty plea for reduced sentence probably looks much better than a loss. Phew!
The fact that he’s getting a max on ten years on the plea versus life proves Mueller gets nothing and was really over a barrel. And you know Manafort, who loses all his forefitures of property, is the real winner here.
How do you like your new bridge?
"You two guys picked some winning screennames. LOL..."
Says the guy who picked "Metsman"....LMFAO
Mueller team turns a profit thanks to Manafort $60m forfeiture . Obtains enough cash to operate in the black for another year.
Manafort pleads guilty to 2nd trial, all the first trial including the hung part, and even more. And you say no there, there. We’re talking hundreds of years if he renegs, no trial.
6 witches hunted down; all turning state’s evidence. Can’t get much higher in the organization.
Manafort is leader of the Republican platform change favorable to Putin. Mueller now knows the background on this one.
Manafort a major in the Tower meeting; if there was any fruit here or if Don knew what Djr was doing, Mueller knows.
And more.
Let’s face it; we are extremely close to end game.
ianimal better than being a Pirates fan. They haven't won a World Series since 1979 and endured like 20 losing record seasons in the 90's and 2000's. The Mets have at least been in 2 world series and 6 NLCS series since they last won.
SD if there's evidence of collusion then why wasn't Manafort charged with that as well as the tax evasion stuff that isn't related to the campaign? They're just trying to drag this along in hopes of affecting the mid term elections.
You do know that Cohen just turned Federal, don’t you. Oops, there goes amother one Maude.
To answer, Yes, because that’s in the best interest of Republican prosecutor Mueller to have Democrats win. Sarcasm alert.
Because Mueller had not fessed up to those unmade charges. Those decisions to charge or not charge have not been completed plus Manafort now has immunity on those charges, if made. IOW, they let him off the hook for future charges IF he fesses all, truthfully and completely. If he holds back, all deals are off.
You may be right, there may be nothing more. However, why would Mueller make a deal like this for nothing. Why would he give a pass on future charges for nothing in return when Mueller had Manafort cold on 18 pages of charges plus the 8 open hung jury charges for like 300 years of jail time.
No, Team Trump is guilty all over the place, one even implicates the President in open court. Now only the top guy, his family, and the original question are left to be answered. Everyone is talking; but chances are we will never know the truth. But it will be ending soon, all the rats have jumped ship.
SD you need actual evidence. It doesn't matter what Manafort says if there is no paper trail. If there's a paper trail then they don't really need Manafort. The jury is on record having said they didn't believe Rick Gates. Manafort was convicted on actual evidence. The stuff that they needed Rick Gates for got dismissed. So it's the same thing if Manafort uses hearsay against Trump. It won't stick in a court of law, but what it could do is sway some votes. What better way to influence unsure voters than turn a guy who was once close to Trump and have him say things that aren't true to damage the brand. This investigation is like watching a hamster run in a wheel. It's not gaining any traction on Russian collusion, but veering off in other directions for stuff no one gives a crap about. Go investigate Nancy Pelosi. I'm curious how she's worth almost $200 million on a congress salary. Would you really be shocked if her and other members of congress cheated the government out of taxes in deals they made?
Oh yeah, at this point that is ALL this "Trump collusion" thing is: an election-influencer. They've got nothing, but they will keep it alive as long as possible, in hopes of getting that ONE MORE seat that will allow them to lock up further legislation.
Ditto on Kavanaugh... they have nothing, but they will continue to the bitter end, trying to destroy his character in an attempt to make it look like THEY "care for the country" HAHAHAHA, in an effort to gain ONE MORE SEAT in november.
November can't get here fast enough. Unfortunately, the game of politics has now turned into 24-7-365. The lies and propaganda don't stop, the jockeying for position doesn't stop, the campaigning doesn't stop, as if THESE PEOPLE are ALL that American life is. As if OUR VERY LIVES depend on who we vote for. They have duped America.
I actually do wish a ginormous (yes, it's a word now, ridiculously), tornado hit DC and took them ALL out. I almost think I'd prefer chaos to this. Almost. Death by a thousand cuts.
The Kavanaugh crap is ridiculous. They get some woman to come forward that he forced himself on her in HS right as the confirmation process is reaching it's end?! Is there proof of this or we're just supposed to believe the woman... Just unbelievable the tactics the Dems use. That's how they defeated Roy Moore, and then they go on TV stating how it was a fair election. LMAO... The Dems are the party of sneaky tactics. They also screwed Bernie. There's more evidence of unethical practices by them than Russian collusion.
My personal interpretation of all political news these days:
Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia
Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia
Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia
Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia
Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia
Yes, I think that just about sums it up :-)
The fact that the GOP would not even let Obama’s nominee GET A VOTE— renders ( in my opinion) Kavanaugh a totally illegitimate nominee.
If he assumes a seat on the court- it and he will be forever tainted as just another bogus masthead of American democracy.
“Everything that tRUMP touches, dies”.
I know you keep forgetting, but let me remind you once again. You won the Presidential election, the house, and the senate. You keep acting like you lost and the Democrats rule the day. Not true, you are in control. Deal with it.
Yes, the Democrats want to keep the "collusion thing" going to sway the mid-terms. As keeper of the dozen Benghazi investigations, the over 50 ObamaCare repeals, you have taught us well. And you do know, if we even had collusion, we wouldn't roll it out now..... And Mueller is the chief Democrat leading this charge....except he is a Republican. As are many on his staff, in the FBI, in the DOJ (which you run, remember)….. Yup, it's all Deep State, the Dems rule the Deep State, and you are up against it. Halloween is real too.
One more vote to lock up legislation? What's legislation? You guys don't have a clue how to get legislation completed, you can't even do it when you stack the Congress. You're nothing more than a bunch of EO's, pardons, tariffs and whatever else your King can do himself without legislation or legislators. Maybe that's what you really want --- " I actually do wish a ginormous (yes, it's a word now, ridiculously), tornado hit DC and took them ALL out. " And then your King can rule correctly, right?
Frankly, if your King was really a tough guy, he would take the interview with Team Mueller. But he can't, he's afraid he can't tell the truth, a pretty high hurdle for your guy. We would trick him because he is weaker than us.....he should grab himself :>)
And now you have convinced yourselves that the Democrats are dirtier in the collusion game than Trump because there, suddenly, magically, you have the evidence to convict. Not exactly a high hurdle given you think Trump walks on water. So I say, just do it (oh wait, you can't say those words in the White House anymore.....sorry :>) Remember, you own the Congress, the DOJ, the Oval Office. I am just Spartacus.
How deluded have you made yourself over this? "SD you need actual evidence. It doesn't matter what Manafort says if there is no paper trail. If there's a paper trail then they don't really need Manafort. The jury is on record having said they didn't believe Rick Gates." Actually, we don't need squat to impeach, don't need Manafort, don't need paper, do even need evidence. Just need a supermajority for vote yes. The jury, as you call if, consisted of a single juror hanging the 8 counts ---- which Manafort just pleaded guilty to by the way.....guess you missed that too.....
And the Manafort/paper trail/direct evidence theory you just stated is just whack. Pretty funny that ole pretzel brain to come up with those if/then's.
You keep talking "court of law." As I started, you do know we will never get to a court of law on the final charges don't you? You do know there's a good chance the public won't even know the final charges, don't you?
This is about removing a President for high crimes and misdemeanors, and, as I have said from the beginning, impeachment is not court, it is a beauty contest, as the founders intended. In a perfect world, Trump will just up and leave like Nixon and you will convince yourself you did the right thing. Because unlike Clinton, there is a there here. It's coming and it's time for you to pull a JR and start saying: just because I voted for him doesn't mean I advocate.....
So far, we have a half dozen of his top campaign staff pleading guilty to a variety of crimes. Now the cheese stands alone and the rats are talking. We have the history, we have the money, we have the scandal vault, we have the accountant, and now, we have the campaign. You have nothing to fear except FEAR itself.
Kavanaugh --- sure, he's a legitimate nominee, especially if you are a President about to go before the SCOTUS on privilege. And this sounds like it could be a trick or some stupid HS thing and nothing more. Hey, you stole your base, now our runner is looking to steal one. Fact is, according to your "new rules," we should wait until after the election so the people can be heard. Another fact is, they should stop, investigate to see if others pop up, and then move on. Just like for any nominee.
"I actually do wish a ginormous (yes, it's a word now, ridiculously), tornado hit DC and took them ALL out. I almost think I'd prefer chaos to this. Almost. Death by a thousand cuts."
JR, Second time in a week I have agreed with one of your statements.
Natalia Veselnitskaya, the Russian contact in the trump tower meeting, was given special clearance by Obama's department of Justice to enter the US for the meeting. https://www.google.com/amp/thehill.com/homenews/administration/341788-exclusive-doj-let-russian-lawyer-into-us-before-she-met-with
She met with a Fusion GPS representative before and after the meeting. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/11/07/fusion-gps-official-met-with-russian-operative-before-and-after-trump-jr-sit-down.html
If you'll recall, Fusion GPS was paid to produce the Trump dossier compiled by Chris Steele. Steele was used as a source for the Obama administration to get a FISA warrant on Carter Page. https://www.npr.org/2018/07/23/631343524/what-you-need-to-know-about-the-much-discussed-carter-page-fisa-document
Fusion GPS was on the Democrats payroll at the time despite being initially hired by Trumps Republican competition. The stuff Manafort went for occurred when he was part of the Podesta group - again the democrats.
Podesta was given immunity to rat out manafort.
How can you say that Clinton et al are clean?
Everyone is cooperating with the Mueller investigation. The White House has provided over a million pages of documents upon request and many interviews. Source: https://www.npr.org/2018/01/25/580637953/white-house-touts-unprecedented-cooperation-amid-mueller-interview-talks Trump and Mueller have negotiated back and forth on a Trump interview which is still ongoing, but the fact of the matter is that the WH is cooperating.
To this day, there is no evidence of collusion even though everyone is cooperating with the probe. Wishful thinking aside, there is nothing there to find. Even Bob Woodward agrees.
There’s 2 things at play here:
1. the mueller investigation is nothing more than cleaning up the Clinton mess. So many immunity deals made to Clinton associates it's not even funny.
2. Cry Russia till midterms.
Meanwhile - Obama’s White House council also failed to register as a foreign agent. HE gets deferred prosecution. Tell me again how this is not a political hit job
https://ktla.com/2018/09/14/federal-prosecutors-mull-charges-against-ex-obama-white-house-counsel-in-manafort-linked-probe/
Video from Google Execs the day after the 2016 electon. Also e- mails showing how Google Exec tried to sway Latino vote in certain states. . And people are concerned about Russian collusion. Just think of how the Social Media companies can influence elections.
https://www.cnn.com/videos/cnnmoney/2018/09/13/google-video-trump-election-2016-breitbart-orig-js.cnn
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/emails-show-google-executive-discussing-effort-to-encourage-latino-vote-surprised-so-many-voted-for-trump
"JR, Second time in a week I have agreed with one of your statements."
I'll bet we have more middle ground than you realize. But that's a BIG part of the whole problem- when you have SD and Stymie deciding who you are, instead of listening to what you have to say, because their confirmation bias won't let them think critically, it's not only what causes the great divide America is now experiencing, but is making it wider. People need to stop pre-judging others, and LISTEN. I think alot more of America is alot more "together" than the MSM is letting you realize. All we have to do is stop listening to THEM, and start listening to EACH OTHER - and without pre-judgement (like here on HL), and I think you would find a majority of Americans want to run them ALL out of town on a rail.
Like him or hate him, that IS what Trump's campaign slogan was - and it IS why so many people (including democrats) voted for him. Maybe it was a bunch of a crap- I haven't seen any "swamp draining" yet- but that IS why people voted for him, and I think that's very telling. A non-politician, someone the GOP tried to beat in the primaries, someone who we were told was a joke, an idiot, you name it.... and the people STILL voted him in. However it turns out, it gives me faith that alot of people out there are finally realizing we're being played- by BOTH sides.
Mike Rowe for president!
It’s always someone else ain’t it JR.
Thank Gid fir giur perfection and sorry I am the cause of all your problems with my lack of critical thinking.
Actually the one fact you tried to get out in your swampy diatribe of personal philosophy——of course is wrong. The people voted for Hillary or at leasy more of them did; the electoral college elected Trump. The thought that this was amy message beyond “you barely snuck by, you better listen to all sides”
What I wonder is how any critical, open minded, non-judgemental person such ad youself cpuld vote for a man like Trump. “Like him or hate him.” That’s a quality you vote for,huh. Sounds brilliant.
Mike Rowe is too smart/decent to be president (or ANY political office).
Not that someone smart/decent isn’t what we need, it’s just that doesn’t seem to be what politics are about anymore. Now you only run/win in order to “stick it” to someone that wronged you, get your own “personal/popular” way (even though most protected rights are not subject to the popular whims of the day), or enrich yourself and your lobbyist friends.
JR- the fact that I believe tRUMP is a $hitbag and a lying $cum transcends party politics.
Anyone that can excuse, justify or condone his behavior is in a severe state of denial. (JMHO)
How can anybody look their family members in the eye and make believe you’re OK with this boorish “child” with the temperment and emotional IQ of a 7 year old?
( meanness, ethics and racism aside)
“Only stupid people pay taxes”. Definitely me and probably you.
“I prefer people that weren’t captured”.
How about those that paid the ultimate sacrifice? Are they losers, too?
I DO have to hand it to him on his jobs plan—has a lot of people now working for Mueller.
Exactly. which is why we need a "Mr. Smith". (Mr. Smith Goes To Washington, Jimmy Stewart).
Of course, today's swamp would grind up and spit out a true Mr. Smith... which is why Trump "works", for now. But if enough people wake the F up, and start electing officials (and I'm talking all the way down to the local levels) who are Mr. Smith's, AND those Mr. Smith's don't get corrupted, AND they continue to higher offices, America really could be saved.
I know. I'm dreaming. A little bit of hope for a sunday morning.
I firmly believe it all begins with campaign finance reform-but that’s just me.
Public office and public service were,at one time,
synonomus.
Now they are just a cash grab- no more than a career path where earnings must be maximized.
Wow, Skippy, you really worked to come off the rails this time :>) First question: is there anyone out there that expresses your theory? Just wondering..... OK, here goes:
"Natalia Veselnitskaya…." might be worth investigating. But first, this is America's DOJ, not the ODOJ unless you think it's TDOJ. I am sure Trump does not feel that way. Second, she was not give the VISA for the meeting; she had a court case for a Russian client. Don't matter, Manafort will tell all.
"She met with a Fusion GPS representative..." This has got to be the best FOX story I have ever read. The first meeting was in a courtroom -- want to guess who's trial. The second, alleged by anonymous. According to the story, "Simpson and Fusion GPS were hired by BakerHostetler, which represented Russian firm Prevezon through Veselnitskaya" so there's one reason for the meetings.
But I think the story sums it up with the WAPO quote: ""What we are finding out is that there is a lot of Russian influence in Washington, and a lot of money flowing in to influence our political process in Washington," Marc Thiessen, a Washington Post columnist and former Bush administration official, said. "It's going into Hillary Clinton. It's going to Fusion GPS. It's going into a lobbying campaign up on Capitol Hill against Magnitsky."
I have no problem with investigating all; especially Fusion since it seems they may be playing folks and being played by the Russians at the same time. Then again, they might just be researchers.... But we should know since they are playing with a known adversary who meddles in our affairs. Hillary too, but sure looks like you are drilling a dry well there.
"If you'll recall...." a spin nicely done, "a source" is right. They would have gotten the surveil anyway......at least based on your tracking. This is weak tea.
"Fusion GPS was on the Democrats payroll" So? And "Podesta was given immunity to rat out manafort." is Tucker Carlson spin. What he said was "offered," not accepted. I don't think Podesta has immunity.
"Clinton was clean" Again, I was talking President Clinton where the there, there, was a lie about a stain..... Don't see high crimes and misdemeanors in that one. If you do, then how could you vote for serial philanderer and frequent pussy groper Trump?
"Everyone is cooperating with the Mueller investigation." Yeah, they did, but they sure as heck are not anymore unless you call Rudy a cooperator.... You can bet Trump regrets the earlier decision.... Nixon did.... "Trump and Mueller have negotiated back and forth on a Trump interview which is still ongoing," oh come on, wanna put a bet down on a voluntary interview. I can give odds.
"To this day, there is no evidence of collusion even though everyone is cooperating with the probe. Wishful thinking aside, there is nothing there to find." Now there's the train coming right off the rails. Robert Mueller has not completed the investigation, he has not reported even a status. Therefore, your conclusion that no news is good news is just not valid. In the meantime, there's plenty of smoke here, including the guilty pleas, IMO to continue investigating.
I think what you have showed is that the Russians are everywhere and many US citizens are joyfully taking their money for services where sometimes the services can be hinky. After all, they are an adversary but many here forget that as they take their money.
There’s 2 things at play here:
"1. So many immunity deals made to Clinton associates it's not even funny."
Show us please. Link please. Especially since you went down in flams on Carlson's spun allegation.
"2. Cry Russia till midterms." Yes. And perhaps thereafter as well.
My turn, all assumptions not based in fact:
1. Perhaps he's guilty as hell or guilty of at least of knowing and not stepping up.
2. He is an idiot who basically filled his sandbox with broken toys
= No reasonable person would work for him
= So he blindly hires "broken toys" corrupt with Russia but also used to working autonomously doing whatever they felt like doing. But I bet in this case, he knew in time to step up and do the right thing.
3. He is an idiot who didn't have a clue what was going on; even his own son and SIL's did not keep him up-to-date.
4. He's innocent and all these Russian connections were coincidence in which case his major crime is being an idiot not to recognize it.
IOW he may just be the victim of circumstances of Russians being everywhere, of hiring "broken toys.". But that's still guilty. And I doubt he is just a casual observer.
An interesting tidbit:
The words “Trump” and “Russia” (including the variant “Russian”) are the two most populous words on this thread?
Curious that I’m not surprised in the least :-)
And does Strangerdanger come in third ;-)
Actually: the, a, is rate higher as does snowflake....heh, heh.
Lol me too - scary.
SD of course it’s all conjecture because there’s no status.
Lisa Paige:
The FBI couldn’t prove collusion before Muller appointment
http://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/406881-lisa-page-bombshell-fbi-couldnt-prove-trump-russia-collusion-before-mueller
“Page’s statement signals that the nation’s premier intelligence court may not have been given a complete picture of the evidence — or lack thereof — as it approved an extraordinary surveillance intrusion into an American presidential nominee’s campaign just weeks before Election Day.
There was no fault to the FBI checking whether Trump was compromised by Russia; that is a classic counterintelligence responsibility.
The real fault lies in those leaders who allowed a secret investigation to mushroom into a media maelstrom driven by official leaks that created a story that far exceeded the evidence, and then used that false narrative to set a special prosecutor flying downhill ahead of his skis.
No matter where Mueller ends his probe, it is now clear the actions that preceded his appointment turned justice on its head, imposing the presumption of guilt upon a probe whose own originators had reason to doubt the strength of their evidence.“
“No matter where Mueller ends his probe, it is now clear the actions that preceded his appointment turned justice on its head, imposing the presumption of guilt upon a probe whose own originators had reason to doubt the strength of their evidence.”
There is no justice here this is kabuki
“And does Strangerdanger come in third ;-)”
Haven’t figured out how to list number of posts per poster. I’m fairly certain you’re numero uno in that context :-)
But we should probably be glad that the old over-used trigger word, terrorist (terrorism), has been downgraded.
Makes one wonder what the next trigger-word used to over-saturation will be? Things that make you go hmmmm...
I am really starting to wonder the "bias" of The Hill after reading these "opinion" pieces. Let me make it simple why the investigation should continue.
You are talking May of 2017, so who cares is the real question. What I wonder about is why this rocket scientist waited until September of 2018, the Sunday after the Friday capitulation by Manafort. Almost seems as if a favor, PR wise.
Or are you insinuating that because they did not have Trump locked up in 2017 that an investigation should not taken place in 2018? Because if this guy and you are right, Mueller ain't never working as a lawyer again.
No, I will vote Mueller when it comes to getting the goods. Seems his batting average is pretty high. I mean maybe it is all a nothing burger, but there are enough coincidences that it stymies (like that?) belief that there's not only no there, there, but that Mueller continues to continue.
I mean here you have the oddest collection of maverick autonomous players all with Russian connections, some spanning decades and hundreds of millions of dollars as architects of the Trump campaign.
You have Russians reaching in offering to help Team Trump.
You have Russians probing about looking for access across the Government.
You have Trump campaign officials reaching out looking for stolen dirt on their opposition
Basically you have offers of marriage coming from all directions from people who have been dating for decades with the only missing thing being the documentation of consummation of the affair. Pretty hard to get pictures of that :>) And now the top dog, keeper of the dorm room door knob messaging sock, telling all. And the all he is telling won't be about Page, Pappydappy, or Cohen --- well, maybe Cohen ----, no, the telling will be about Trump and the family --- Jared and DJ. There's no one left, the rats have all gone state's evidence. Again, with no there, there, Mueller will be retiring after this, no book sales.
IMO, we've been in end game for awhile. You seem to think there isn't even a game yet. I see Russians everywhere, you can't even see Russians in this sentence :>)Unless he's lying, Manafort is the coffin's nail, and he has also sent a strong message to anyone potentially involved as to what happens when you play Mueller and wait too long. Anyone who knows anything is probably not going to sit on it now waiting for a better deal or a potential pardon. Don should pay heed to that little smoke signal. Manafort's plea is a dog down, legs in the air submission by Mueller who got nothing except avoiding a life sentence. How close he comes to time served strictly depends on who he can serve up and how.
It's virtually over except Don doesn't seem to get it.
He’s got nothing to offer up or he would have already. There’s no way he’s getting time served and mueller busted him out - that’s the real goal here.
Who cares? I thought you wanted justice ? Fruit of the forbidden tree good sir - you don’t get to disregard the constitution when it’s politically expedient.
I don’t have a clue what you aretalking about. Manafort hoping for better deal, that’s why he waited. He screwed up, again. Mueller took the plea cuz he’s getting bigger fish. Constitution what?
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/statement-press-secretary-34/
Trump declassified key FISA documents, text messages in FBI Russia probe.
Great, now we and the Russians can know exactly what Congress knows many months after they knew it and said no there, there.
Just in time to be breaking news for your crack The Hill reporter. And grist for Hannity’s alt universe theories.
It is about time he did so(declassify). All it will mean to this post is a 10,000 word soliloquy by SD telling us how we have it all wrong and that he has all the true facts at his literary disposal which he will be more than happy to share with us.
“It will be simply: “I told you so.””
I really hope that’s not the case. Rewarding speculative behavior, even if it’s proven true, will beget more of the same. I can’t imagine even you wanting a society like that.
Let's see if the FBI/DOJ actually follow the order..... part of it is declassifying all the Strozck emails UNREDACTED.
I know you (SD) are thinking "these documents will show what I have been saying all along"... but they could also show what OTHERS have been saying all along.... that the FBI COLLUDED to keep Trump out of the White House, that they have gone rogue. Why else would Trump order them released? He's trying to protect himself, if those documents show collusion of any kind no way he's ordering them declassified/unredacted. Think, man, think.
It's all very interesting, but there is no "I told you so", not until what happens actually happens... and if the documents Trump has ordered be declassified show the FBI in any negative light, they will fight it. Delay it. They will use the excuse "we cannot allow declassification for national security reasons", but it'll just be a CYA.
It could be a long time before (if) they actually get released, unredacted. If they ARE released quickly, I will be surprised. This is just another move in a very long chess game. A little early (a LOT) for "I told you so" LOL
Like a tide that slowly creeps up the beach, the collusion investigation has gradually zeroed in on the tRUMP boys.
Desperation begins to engulf the West Wing.
Like near the end of the Sopranos- hold up in that beach house-gloom and depression, miserable existence.
That light st the end of the tunnel is another train comin’ head on.
“Casey Jones...err, tRUMP you’d better watch your speed..”
“ Trouble ahead, trouble behind...”
A thing of beauty is a joy to behold!
"I can’t imagine even you," Now there's a guy looking for a friendly discussion..... Be careful when dismounting that high horse you came in on. I have done nothing that I wouldn't do again going forward. I can't imagine even you understanding that. But you will understand that special "I told you so..."
When speculating, I attempt to call it out. You have denigrated me, even you, for those passages as speculation. Good move Captain Obvious. As I have said to you in the past, if you see it, call it out. Otherwise, take your broad brush personal attacks and keep them to yourself.
"I know you (SD) are thinking "these documents will show what I have been saying all along"... " You're kidding, right? Or are you tag teaming me with JIT, sort of a Captain Obvious, Caption Oblivious version of good cop, bad cop:>) Of course he's trying to protect himself by feeding the deep state conspiracy theorists. Of course, these documents have nothing to do with finding a smoking gun against the Russians --- it's too early in the timeline.
What amazes me is how you high minded men of morals, including those on their high horses of judgmental thinking, can abide by a President, while legally allowed, releasing confidential documents in an investigation of himself. That one just slides on by you in your lust for vengeance. Presidential legal selfies are A-OK with your moral's?
As folks have said in the past, what would you be saying if this was Obama?
The reality is Nunes, Meadows, and the rest have seen these documents. They would have run any smoking guns over to the White House and more by now. Most who have seen the documents have said the surveillance was justified, with or without the Steele Dossier. Their sycophantic mission of deep state conspiracy has run up against the Manafort flip and they need more ammo.
Of course, releasing his tax documents, well that's a classification we can't break and you still just don't care as long as your King is on the thrown.
"if those documents show collusion of any kind no way he's ordering them declassified/unredacted. Think, man, think." It was as of May, 2017 or earlier. Think man, think. No one was even indicted until Oct 2017.
This is a egregious abuse of power in a defensive move designed to discredit the investigation from the beginning as in saying there was a trumped-up reason to have one to begin with. Trump thinks this is "Law and Order" and if he can say he wasn't properly Mirandized, we can throw the entire case out.....
What happens if he's right, do we let everyone out of jail, drop the indictments, and say "have a nice day?" With his sycophants Meadows and known-liar Nunes fanning the tabloid fire, the President will use his powers, and powers that he alone has, to try to extricate himself from his own investigation. Or fog it up to the point that his supporters in Congress will not act, will not flip.
Well, we are done with Flynn, he can be excused now. Sentencing time where we will see how good a pigeon he was, speculation wise, that is.
Mueller? Mueller" Mueller?
It sure is nice to have two experts here on HL who had all this figured out MONTHS ago...
Now if only the country were smart enough to believe them, we could make quick work of all this, appoint HRC president, and get on with the work of making America socialist again.
It's shame we still have due process in America.... so far.....
What is due process about releasing confidential information for an ongoing investigation? Where's your shaming in that.
They just skip over due process with the Democrats and say they are innocent. It's ok for Bill Clinton to have a secret discussion with Loretta Lynch while his wife was being investigated, but if Don Jr has a 20 minute meeting with a Russian lawyer just to hear her out it must be collusion. Oh and if a woman comes out and says a teenage Kavanaugh tried to rape her, we must automatically believe her because it's not like Feinstein wasn't aware of it in July... Their other sneaky tactics didn't work, so they get a registered Democrat woman who was drunk at a party in 1981 try to finger him. Funny she didn't report it to the police and make a report. Meanwhile several people who went to high school with him and who dated him have nothing but praise for him.
I mean due process, as opposed to you, Stymie, and most of the MSM pronouncing pre-guilt before actual evidence proving guilt has been produced. As if America has now become The Minority Report. It hasn't.... yet.
And good points on the democrat hypocrisy, Metsman. FOUR women accuse Bill Clinton of sexual assault & rape, and they are "trailer trash" "bimbos" just trying to hurt him. But Anita Hill and Christine Blasey Ford are to be believed out-of-hand, #MeToo
Did you just equivocate Loretta Lynch with Natalia Veselnitskaya? Like two peas in a pod? Wow, have you learned nothing in all this about the Russians? Remember, in the end, they will probably treat you like they did their Polish allies in WWII
"Oh and if a woman comes out and says a teenage Kavanaugh tried to rape her, we must automatically believe her because it's not like Feinstein wasn't aware of it in July... " What would you do? How do you suggest handling the allegation.
"so they get a registered Democrat woman who was drunk at a party in 1981 try to finger him. Funny she didn't report it to the police and make a report. Meanwhile several people who went to high school with him and who dated him have nothing but praise for him." Wow, just wow. Something tells me you don't have a pussy hat much less a MeToo t-shirt.
It was not "several people," it was 65 girls from his High School career that vouched for his character.
He went to Georgetown Prep, it's an all male academy.
The girls went to Holton Arms, all female academy, 10 miles away across town.
OK stud muffins: HL survey time. How many of you, OK -- us :>), might get 65 High School girls to vouch for you even in a co-ed school? Please note whether you were unaffiliated (regular student), sports hero, or political wonk as in ---- was there a special reason for your popularity.
I am not even close and my High School was in the middle of these two kid's schools. They barely knew any of us, we didn't count in their book. But we knew them.....and their little suits.....and their fancy cars......but we were not bitter, we crashed their parties too.
My comment wasn’t intended to be meant negatively, just that I’d assume that a bright guy like you would already know that mud slinging rarely represents what’s truthful and real. “Muddying the water” is a fairly apt phrase, and you’ve done your share of tossing the brown stuff ;-)
Regarding your other comment, every horse must seem high when you’re always playing in the the weeds, wouldn’t you think?
SD what are you wowing about? This sets a dangerous precedent where now anyone who doesn't like a candidate or judge can come forward and make accusations. If there's not a police report or evidence of the incident then I find it ridiculous that someone should have their career ruined over it. Because if he can't serve on the Supreme Court then I guess you have to impeach him as well from his current position. Like JR said, Clinton had 4 women accusing him AND he lied about his relationship with Monica. I'd tend to believe those women over this woman accusing Kavanaugh, because there's at least some circumstantial evidence with Clinton. There's nothing with Kavanaugh. If anything he's lived the life of a boy scout prior to this coming out. Clinton had scandal after scandal.
"a registered Democrat woman who was drunk at a party in 1981 try to finger him." - I think you have that backwards... or he's kinkier than we thought, lol.
In Nov 2016 Dems requested full release and declassification of ALL Russia related docs. why is this horrible now?
meanwhile the MSM and the left:+
FISA REDACTIONS! TREASON! HURRICANES! IMPEACH 45!
reality - tariffs on $200 billion worth of Chinese foodstuffs go into effect next week and the Chinese economy is collapsing on itself because they are losing their back-door NAFTA access
MSM:
HEY DID YOU HEAR KAVANAUGH MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE TOUCHED A GIRL'S BOOB IN HIGH SCHOOL!
Apparently you would know your own negativity if it was the nose on your face.
I have put a lot of facts on the table. You call them mud. Over and over.
I have speculated at times, often I highlight it as such. Do you?
I honestly thought you would go "you too," rather than the "weeds" route. "Mud-slinging, lying, tossing the brown stuff, muddying the water," without actual facts or examples sure seems personal to me. A lot of allegations without any support.
How about you get out of the gutter and step up on the curb with me. Softer?
Whenever you are ready to debate the facts, the issues, and the like, I am all yours. Likewise, you want to point out any mudsling, lying, brown stuff, muddy water, and I am all yours to discuss. But I find the personal stuff unnecessary and certainly not advancing your ideas. Generic slams are just the name game uplifted, seemingly becoming your MO.
I know, I know, I started it, I do it worse, it's all me, me me...… Like I said, whenever you are ready.
Given all the folks being indicted, arrested, jailed, pleading guilty, flipping, Russian careers, Russian researchers, Russian money, Russian spies, Russian meeting, Russian back-channels, and Carter Page :>) ...…..what does it take to have some folks agree: "There's something happening here. What it is ain't exactly clear. There's a man with a gun over there. Telling me I got to beware. I think it's time we stop, children, what's that sound. Everybody look what's going down. " (BS....as in Buffalo Springfield)
I think you need a vacation SD. Seriously, I’m truly concerned about your health at this point. Can you not see that SD is to hammer as Russians are to nails?
Anywho, did you happen to forget that I favor the 10,000 ft view when I post, that I prefer avoiding the daily noise and look for the big picture? Consider my posts from that perspective and I hope you’d realize to not take my comments personally (except my last one-I kinda thought is was deserved this time ;-)).
Something certainly is happening here SD... The Democrats can't accept the election results so they're doing all they can to try and influence the upcoming elections and taint enough minds to get people to vote Trump out in 2020. Or if you listen to crazy Maxine, impeach... impeach... impeach...
Often i find the most obnoxious posters have the thinnest skins. They are the same posters who habitually say the most offensive things and then act all hurt and offended when they get their own back. The proof is right here in this thread.
on another subject: Liberal Logic:
"Trump is releasing these documents is for his personal gain"
Wait, the only way Trump gains, is if the items declassified show he was targeted by Intel agencies that were weaponized.
Which is why the swamp is scared.
Thank you for your kinds words. May the Karma that you bestow be returned ten fold.
I can understand your hesitation to debate actual issues and facts instead retreating to your higher position because it infers a higher level of thinking and is mostly unassailable because it is basically obvious to the casual observer. "Though not the only use or misuse of this phrase, “the 30,000-foot view” is often uttered by pompous managers who believe they see the big picture that the rest of us are somehow missing. We get it, okay, you want us to believe you’re considering every outcome of a particular decision. The origins of this phrase, which is meant to describe the view from a commercial airplane (flying at 30,000 feet), have become so misunderstood that we often hear our colleagues refer to everything from the 5,000-foot view to the 100,000-foot view – clearly different views. The AskTheManager replacement phrase leaders should use: The Big Picture (we know this is also clichéd, but at least everyone will understand the meaning)." https://askthemanager.com/2008/11/the-25-most-annoying-business-phrases/#.W6ExivZFw2w
And no. Whether 30,000, 10,000, or at sea level, I will take all personal comments personally, if you don't mind, as that is my belief as to your intent. Otherwise, why bother. As you use your high-minded, obvious, non-specific examples to define your world that we, mere mortals, with our diminished capacity, can barely even understand, I will continue with the pedantic exercise of current facts and figures and what they might mean while occasionally daring to walk where angels fear to tread. It is my belief that is your intent. Elsewise, why would you bother.
SD, you write all of that and still cannot see the view I present?
Vacation. You really, really need one.
JIT: why would you say I can't see your view? All I have to do is look up.
Sure, Mets, if that's your name of the day for liberals. And you are Metsman. But you will have to do better that to get a rise. Keep trying.
I am really interested in hearing what your guys hopeful outcome of all this insinuation is?
I mean I know obviously you would love nothing more for Trump to be impeached.....but don't you think that would have happened by now?
This whole thing has gotten so out of control, any little thing that comes up, even if it is just hear say, is just blown so incredibly far out of the water by the left it is just plain silly.
Over and over again you find nothing, you try to make a big deal out of things that superiors have proven to be nothing...you guys literally order a cavity search on Trump, and when they find nothing.....order it again and again.........it's getting very old guys, just let the man be president already....give it up....he won.
Careful Darrin, thoughts like that apparently make you look snobbish or some such thing ;-)
I read this morning the FBI and DOJ plan to REDACT the documents, even though they were ordered to release unredacted docs... no surprise. Wouldn't want to incriminate oneself (as I predicted, using the excuse "national security"). The FBI has gone totally rogue.
It's pretty obvious some of these FBI and DOJ people are corrupt. Hopefully the Republicans keep control and Trump starts cleaning house. Sessions and Rosenstein need to go.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/09/19/kavanaugh-accuser-christine-blasey-ford-demands-full-investigation-by-fbi-before-testifying-in-letter-from-her-lawyers.html
So this happened so long ago that the woman can't remember key details. How the hell can the FBI do any kind of investigation if she can't remember when and where this happened?! What a joke.... She's either lying or has Alzheimer's disease... If this truly happened then how do you forget these kinds of details... They keep comparing this to the Clarence Thomas/Anita Hill crap... Not even close...
Ford: I demand an FBI background check on Kavanaugh!
FBI: We did 6 background checks on Kavanaugh.
Ford: I demand to be heard by the committee!
Grassley: Come in for a hearing on Monday.
Ford: I demand an FBI background check on Kavanaugh!
Ok people, hard fact, the FBI does not investigate rape unless it was something to do with kidnapping, or a serial rapist. So this whole notion that the FBI will take a look is insane.
Add to that, they already said they had no interest.
Add to that, that he has already had 6 intensive background checks done on him as he moved up through the judiciary. 6 people and nothing like this popped.
Now factor in, that the Dems knew about this since July. Had her do a lie detector test. Had all this info, all while calling for more documents pertaining to Kavanaugh.
Think of the hypocrisy that they wanted something and had info they didn't share.
Add to it, they are now worried about Trump releasing the FISA documents, because they say they will benefit him.
Of course they will benefit him, you used those agencies as weapons against him. Now he wants to clear his name.
And your house of cards continues to fall.
Mission Control: we have Joe....
"Ok people, hard fact, the FBI does not investigate rape unless it was something to do with kidnapping, or a serial rapist. So this whole notion that the FBI will take a look is insane." It's a background check, and it can be authorized by either the committee or the White House.
"Add to that, that he has already had 6 intensive background checks done on him as he moved up through the judiciary. 6 people and nothing like this popped." Did any go back this many years? The FBI one did not. And Grizzly knew that when he popped off.
"Now factor in, that the Dems knew about this since July. Had her do a lie detector test. Had all this info, all while calling for more documents pertaining to Kavanaugh.
Think of the hypocrisy that they wanted something and had info they didn't share." While they can claim they were waiting for the FBI to uncover, nah, you're right, this is politics. Still no reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
"Add to it, they are now worried about Trump releasing the FISA documents, because they say they will benefit him." That's the least of the worries over the King releasing classified documents for an ONGOING investigation of the KING. That's the autocrat lover in you thinking.
"Of course they will benefit him, you used those agencies as weapons against him. Now he wants to clear his name." Again, all the Trump sycophants on the JC saw them. Nunes has run up any valuable information for Trump's continued propaganda program against Team Mueller.
"And your house of cards continues to fall." Really...…
- Indictments against 32 people and 3 companies including
= four former Trump advisers,
= 26 Russian nationals
= three Russian companies
= one California man
= one London-based lawyer.
Six guilty pleas including the four Trump aides have pleaded guilty and are singing to the Feds.
- One Foreign Policy Advisor
- One Campaign Chair
- One Campaign Aide
- One National Security Advisor
Two spin-off trials with guilty pleas and Fed-singing involved Trump's personal lawyer, and a lobbyist.
Add that to the revolving door of malfeasance in the Trump administration racking up a world record for departures and dismissals, often for cause. I mean who can forget the 4 days of Scaramangler….. The list is so long, so unprecedented, that entire chart packs are needed to describe. One thing is certain: this guy's hiring skill DEMANDS we do our vetting twice as much because, frankly, he sucks at selecting qualified people for the job.
Here's the list including comparisons with other Presidents, although there really isn't any need to compare to conclude what an abysmal hiring record President Trump, your King, has. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Trump_administration_dismissals_and_resignations
SD how many of those indictments and convictions had anything to do with Russian collusion. I'll wait for your answer... I'll be waiting awhile...
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-southkorea-summit/north-koreas-kim-agree-to-inspections-in-bid-to-salvage-nuclear-talks-idUSKCN1LY30R
Kim Jong Un has agreed to allow Nuclear inspections, subject to final negotiations, and to permanently dismantle a test site and launch pad in the presence of international experts.
The two Koreas also agreed to pursue a bid to co-host the 2032 Summer Olympic Games, and actively work together in other international competitions including the 2020 Olympic Games in Tokyo.
Wasn't SD criticizing the NK situation not too long ago? Gee who'd have thought stuff like this might take some time...
There's a good chance Un wants to join the world with him having more fun outside NK that in NK. But what situation --- you mean the expensive meeting situation resulting in no progress except failure by Trump after declaring mission completed? Did anything change with that? Pompeo break through? Has anything besides talk between NK and SK happen here? Plans? Dates? Has anything different even been said? Or do we give Trump credit for what NK and SK do? Do you think this has anything to do with Trump or is it a slap to Trump showing that he can't get it done? It's a start, I am glad NK and SK could agree, have no idea what sort of deal this is (the last one apparently sucked) and wonder why Trump was left totally out of this loop except to claim credit. Trump throwing SK under the bus has made for strange bedfellows which I hope does not spell more issues for us going forward. Whatever, it's better than bad talk and as long as we get out of Dodge, that's the first priority. As far as I know, nukes still on the Peninsula, Un still making bombs and rockets.
"You know what? Maybe Mrs. Ford was assaulted. Where was T-Bone that night?" You must be God's gift to women.
"SD how many of those indictments and convictions had anything to do with Russian collusion. I'll wait for your answer... I'll be waiting awhile...." Actually, the longer we wait, the better. We want to get them all. However, it's a list of major players on both sides with one side in complete capitulation coughing up potentially higher ups. To say there's no there, there is to wonder why all these fine fellows of innocence yelled "I'm guilty" so fast, so soon. Seems a silly thing unless you have something to hide, something to share.
You are right, all that's missing is the consummation of the act. There is no stained dress yet. But there are plenty of Russians all over these indictments, both sides and in the middle. That's why we have an investigation.
I will give Trump continued credit for stamina. Think most men would have crumpled by now. But then again his forte is being Lazarus, always coming back from the dead. He may be having difficulties believing that we won't bail him out this time. I just hope he doesn't wait too long to escape with some dignity (to the office that is).
I am Spartacus. And I think Corey Booker is fun! Hope he doesn't run yet though.
You think Cory Booker is fun, well that made me laugh. Just another empty suit politician who is good at saying a whole lot and saying nothing.
And by the way, why has John Kerry meeting with top Iranian officials? Evidently has met with them 3 times.
“You must be God's gift to women”
Allegedly. Let’s ask the FBI. I hear it’s their job to investigate everything now.
Well gee... NK isn't launching missiles for one...
Yea cuz people will do anything to avoid lengthy prison sentences. Rick Gates is a perfect example. He testified again Manafort and the jury disregarded his testimony. Oh yea... look at that smoking gun... In the end you can only prove what you have actual evidence on. Maybe in the SD playbook hearsay is proof. It isn't with rational people.
And John Kerry is an idiot. He shouldn't be meeting with Iran.
tTUMP coming back from the dead?
He’s in a death spiral.
Electorate is fed up with the buffoon.
Fat man has about 6 more weeks with total national party control.
Then, break out the nappies.
They’re gonna squeeze him like a grape
BTW- presidency is taking a huuuuge physical toll on the serial groper
Looks puffy, looks fat, looks beat up.
And I , for one, am enjoying watching his sloooow motion train wreck
End game for his life of thievery, lying, bullying and duplicity.
Karma is da B
https://www.pressherald.com/2018/09/19/analysis-republicans-seem-to-have-votes-to-move-forward-with-brett-kavanaugh/
Looks like we’re moving forward with Kavanaugh - I miss hallelujah Srymie. Break that out once in a while
"Electorate is fed up with the buffoon.
Fat man has about 6 more weeks with total national party control."
Too bad the rest of the world doesn't have access to your crystal ball. The midterms will tell the story.
The dems have pulled out every trick in the book on the Kavanaugh thing. The bottom line is this: did it happen? Only 2 people know. Which of those two people are invited to DC to testify on monday? Both of them. How many of those 2 people will show up? 1.
She has a chance to testify. If she's a no-show, it doesn't matter the reason, it's apparently not important enough to her. she expects the dems and the FBI to do her work for her. Not good enough. At least she is ALIVE to testify, which is more than we could say for Mary Jo Kopechne.
"You have stated repeatedly that Dr. Ford wants to tell her story. I sincerely hope that Dr. Ford will accept my invitation to do so, either privately or publicly, on Monday."
-Chuck Grassley, Chairman
Letter to Ford's attorney:
1 of 2
A hearing at this point is he said/she said. That’s why an investigation is needed. For corroborating witnesses or not. A hearing at this juncture is a farce. Just rubber stamp the guy like you were always going to and move on. Nothing good will come of her going to a hearing- just ask Anita Hill. F*ing old white guys will “stick it” to you every time.
But next time you’re the victim of a crime, don’t go crying to the police to do it for you. I guess now you’re supposed to be you’re own investigator?
That's a very partisan view of it JR. For a guy who prides himself as rising above the parties, claims to see the world through the open eyes of the critical thinker, a guy who constantly reminds us of this, and how the rest of us have failed, that seems even more partisan.....
You are a trumpet --- blow that horn proudly.
"The dems have pulled out every trick in the book on the Kavanaugh thing." Who's on first? The guys who are rushing to judgement to slam a yes-vote before the mid-terms or else, or the guys attempting to not do that?
"The bottom line is this: did it happen?" This is what we are saying. And this would be great if that's what you wanted. But based on the rest of your rhetoric, that does not sound true for you. Because bringing her, with him, to Congress is certainly not a quest for the truth. And you know that, and you would be screaming that, if it were not for Trumpism.
"Only 2 people know." Not true, and how can you not know that. There's at least one other guy in the room, he says he does not remember, he says he drinks to blackout, and he says he does not want to testify. Let's grill that guy. There's others who have come forward, like a classmate who remembers hearing about it. Let's find those folks. There may be others, you have to admit, based on what we know already today.
"Which of those two people are invited to DC to testify on monday? Both of them. How many of those 2 people will show up? 1." I hope so if this is what Congress feels is an adequate investigation. It isn't. It isn't fair, equitable or just. If you think hauling an armature to compete with a professional judge in a legal debate with the committee chaired by the adversary, a committee owned by the adversary, with no judge to avoid any of that, is fair.....there's that bridge for sale still.....
In the Anita Hill case, witnesses were allowed to testify before Congress.
"She has a chance to testify." She already has, read the letter....
"If she's a no-show, it doesn't matter the reason, it's apparently not important enough to her." This is a non sequitur and just not true. You are asking her to take an unlevel playing field that is even more unfair than the Anita Hill case where an FBI investigation was done, multiple witnesses testified, and more. IMO, that's reason enough not show.
"she expects the dems and the FBI to do her work for her." Actually what she has said that SHE is be brave enough to let the FBI, under threat of lies being a criminal offenses, investigate. Congress, Kav, and you seem to be missing the fortitude to do that. No, you favor the partisan spectacle of the Congressional Arena. You want Spartacus.
Along the way, you somehow missed the witnesses not to be called, you missed that in the Anita Hill case, the FBI did more than the background check that the Kav FBI did; they did an investigation. They have specialists, they do this all the time. For Anita Hill, two of the current JC members still present in today's decisions said it is right and the proper process to do an FBI investigation into, frankly, less evil charges than attempted rape…. "Back then, Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-UT) — who was and still is a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee — called it “the very right thing to do.”" Grassley made a similar lame quote at the time. Today, both men, and you, tell us "the FBI does not do investigations like this" so Congress owns the responsibility.
According to younger Grassley and Hatch, that's just pure bull.
"Not good enough. At least she is ALIVE to testify, which is more than we could say for Mary Jo Kopechne." Another false equivalency for the JR bone pile. However, sure seems that Teddy jiggered the game on that one. But if you are gung ho to repeat that fiasco, stay your course, open thinker, stay that Republican gotta get him in before November course. Because let's face it, that's what's on first here.
"For corroborating witnesses or not."
The only people (according to Ford) who were in the room were herself, Kavanaugh, and Judge. Two of them deny that it occurred. Who else could corroborate it (based on personal observation and not what Ford told them - which isn't independent corroboration)? I don't think the FBI can jump into a time machine to go collect evidence at the scene.
"don’t go crying to the police to do it for you"
Especially not 30+ years later without a *single* shred of evidence that Kavanaugh was at *that* party or in *that* room at *that* time (which she can't even remember herself..) it might have been in 1982 in a house located *somewhere* in Chevy Chase, Maryland. That really narrows it down.
SD what planet do you live on? Ford can’t remember when and where the so-called incident occurred. Kavanaugh and Judge said the incident never happened. What exactly is law enforcement supposed to investigate? Grassley has invited Ford to a public or closed door hearing. She so far has chosen not to do anything and instead expects a full blown FBI investigation when there’s no merit for it. The first step would be for her to talk to the Senators. If she refuses to do that then oh well. Time to vote.
Besides, if the Maryland police want to investigate this then they are free to do so.
It's not the jurisdiction of the FBI. It *is* the jurisdiction of the Senate committee during the nomination process of the candidate, and they have invited all parties to testify as part of that investigation. Only one person has accepted that invitation.
Then why did Grassley and Hatch order and applaud the FBI investigation into Anita Hill's less evil charges of sexual harassment?
Why did Grassley and Hatch call it the proper process, the right thing to do for sexual harassment, but not appropriate for rape?
Jurisdiction? Find a better word....
She is willing to face jail for lying to the FBI; she only wants to have them investigate the truth before Congressional testimony. Why is everyone else afraid of this? In a hurry for some reason? Got to move fast even if that means not attempting to learn the truth.
And now they have jiggered the field to expect her to deliver her written testimony by 10 am Friday so Kav and company can have the whole weekend to prep the rebuttal. Is this fair as we define fairness in America?
At the bare minimum, at least you guys are consistent in your support of sexual predators.
Why is anyone surprised that women don't come forward about these things when they are immediately told they're making it up, or that it was their own fault for drinking? Her psychiatrist has notes from 2012 about the incident so it sounds like this has had a pretty lasting effect on her life.
You continue to show the opposite of your name Reasonable. You’re automatically labeling the guy as a predator. The Senate and President both want to hear her side of the story and she isn’t coming forward. What more do you want? She never filed a police report and forgets key details. Meanwhile Juanita Broaddrick who has for years accused Bill Clinton of raping her, gets dismissed by liberals. Bias much….
In the end, we ALL get just what we deserve.
WE put these clowns, ALL OF THEM, in control of our government.
We vote them in, REPEATEDLY, while they lie, cheat and steal from us.
BOTTOM LINE IS:
*Work hard at a vocation you enjoy
*Support the charities you find worthy
*Be kind to neighbors, the elderly and the infirm
*Learn your way around the obstacles the government ALWAYS puts in front of you to prevent your success and diminish your happiness
So, I’m done giving a $hyt what any of them have to say
Making money and living (?) the dream.
The nominee should be a woman. Sigh. Since that is not the case, the nominee needs to be judged on adult behavior. Has he become a good person, who will act based on law? Are there nicer candidates? Surely, but the same people will oppose anyway. If Clarence Thomas, clearly an adult pig, got on the court after Anita Hill's testimony, the bar is low. Dr. Ford, believable, should have confronted Kavanaugh decades ago. I hope she finds peace.
How can someone who sat for a polygraph not be ready to tell their story?
She’s a clinical psychologist - I think she will be fine. Feinstein leaked the letter and asked for a hearing - they got it. Time to be heard or withdraw the accusation. Call the vote Tuesday.
BTW Spartacus groped a girl and wrote about it in 1992
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/09/20/bookers-push-for-kavanaugh-vote-delay-called-out-over-his-1992-column-detailing-teenage-groping.html
Juanita Broderick didn’t get an FBI investigation either. Let’s do that one first.
Based on the evidence, I have no issue with having the FBI investigate Broaddrick's claims. Not sure of how one would proceed to order an investigation, legally, but I am sure it starts with Broaddrick's desire to do so. And I believe she wants this. Legally, I think you may have a conundrum here given statue of limitations, etc., but morally, I have no issue with proceeding. Seems like the right thing to do if we are interested in the truth or tired of the allegations.
Let the FBI do it under Federal penalty for lying, then perhaps we can put this to rest, one way or the other.
However, timewise, Clinton does not have a lifetime assignment to adjudicate all of our laws in the offing.
"At the bare minimum, at least you guys are consistent in your support of sexual predators."
Assuming you are talking about republicans (as opposed to democrats), I have 2 words for you: BILL CLINTON.
"The nominee should be a woman."
So you're a sexist. It's a free country. And there WAS a woman on the short list, but she no doubt wouldn't have met the democrat's approval, due to her religious beliefs.
At this point, Ford should stay home; the Dems should abstain the vote and we can move forward with that on the record.
I also agree with your post, Stymie.... altho I will now wait for all of your posts to start practicing what you are preaching (which would require a non-partisan look at everything... non-partisan does not describe you at all, based on your HL output.)
As for Kav...
-allegations to not equal guilt (Duke University is a perfect example, thanks Mark).
-she has been invited to testify... the republicans have even offered to GO TO HER. If she is not willing to testify, it's dead. It must not be important enough (or perhaps true enough) for her to talk under oath.
-the left just can't stand the thought that Trump gets ANOTHER justice confirmed to SCOTUS, with a possible 3rd in the future (based on RBG's age and inability to stay awake)
If Ford continues choosing not to testify, don't be surprised if .... voila!.... another woman is found with a similar story before the confirmation vote. Because this is not about actual events, testimony, or truth. This is about trying to turn public opinion. That's ALL it's about.
The #MeToo movement is great, but allegations do not equal guilt. This is a very dangerous road to go down. "Me Too Must Be True".... very very dangerous. If Ms. Ford is telling the truth, she OWES IT TO AMERICA to show up and testify under oath. Otherwise, it's all just a smokescreen and a bluff.
shes definitely tweeted she wants it and I agree about the statute of limitations
https://twitter.com/atensnut/status/1042237963848110080?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
anything you say in an FBI interview carries with it that penalty. (18 U.S.C. § 1001)
no Clinton was just president and got to appoint RBG - no gravity there at all.
any who..
A court of law REQUIRES proof before action can be taken. A confirmation hearing does not. A confirmation hearing just requires a majority of people saying "yes." or not. Kavanaugh has to convince the senators that he's right for the job, and they're permitted to take any evidence into account that they want. - there is nothing to be gained or lost by holding this up except a stall till after mid terms
@Reasonable "Her psychiatrist has notes from 2012 about the incident so it sounds like this has had a pretty lasting effect on her life."
Yeah....such a lasting affect that she waited her whole life for a few days before the guy was going to become a public figure to say anything about it....yeah sure........lasting effect......more like money grab personally.
My problem is when things like this happen and it seems 9 times out of 10, as soon as someone is famous.....these hush hush people come running out of the woods....with stories from 20+ years ago.
Your time to speak was then, not now when you think you can make a bunch of money from it.....PLEASE!!!!
Secondly, I am all for a court date prior to a investigation. She needs to give a statement of what happened while under oath.....that's how the process goes....no skipping steps here.
Actually she made the allegation back in July to the Washington Post and to her Representative. She also did it anonymously, so how exactly would that equate to her making a money grab?
Any other men want to chime in about how women should act in response to getting sexually assaulted?
"Any other men want to chime in about how women should act in response to getting sexually assaulted?"
Maybe report it to law enforcement (or parents, guidance counselor at school, etc.) at the time, not a senator (in a state where it didn't happen) and a newspaper 30 years later. Has she submitted a complaint to the Maryland police (state or local) regarding this alleged crime yet? It is their jurisdiction to investigate.
Now you're telling 15-year old girls how to react to being sexually assaulted? This isn't a criminal investigation at this point; it's a question of the character of a man who is about to be appointed for life to the highest court in the land. But I guess if pussy grabbers can be President, why not SCOTUS justices too?
So men can have no opinion on sexual assault, or abortion - anything else you want to silence half the population about to push your agenda?
If this was truly about violence against women we would be mentioning Keith Ellison, who is being accused of abuse right now, not when he was 17.
I am sure she will be fully ready to testify on Wednesday, November 7. I am sure that Feinstein will suggest that that the Senate delay voting on Judge Kavanaugh until January 3, 2019 when the new Congress is sworn in to reduce trauma.
Essentially what you are saying is we need to respect her privacy and not look into her history and presume the motives for coming forward 36 years later are totally apolitical. We should definitely not use common sense and question her motives and the curious timing the allegations becue were male... got it.
No you're more than welcome to have an opinion, but considering you're not a woman and physically incapable of having an abortion I would say you shouldn't be in charge of deciding what a woman's reproductive rights are. As far as sexual assault, same thing. You can have your opinion, but men/women who have been a victim of sexual assault are the only people who can choose how to react.
"Now you're telling 15-year old girls how to react to being sexually assaulted?"
not at all - I question Fords motives and the curious timing the allegations 35 years later.
"This isn't a criminal investigation at this point; it's a question of the character of a man who is about to be appointed for life to the highest court in the land"
1. Ford has stated she can’t remember the time or location of the alleged incident.
2. Ford contacted both The Washington Post via a tip line and her Representative Anna Eshoo on July 20 - Eshoo decided to take the matter to Senator Dianne Feinstein who got her lawyered up had her write a letter and sent her for a polygraph in august (who is paying for that? bet its a George Soros or Bloomberg backed org)
3. Feinstein sat through the committee's four-day public confirmation, her private meeting with Kavanaugh, a closed session in which Kavanaugh met with the full committee and said nada..
4. On September 12 she leaked it to "the Intercept" - then and ONLY THEN did Feinstein refer Ford's letter to the FBI, which redacted Ford's name and forwarded the letter to the White House who sent it back to the very committee Feinstein is on..
tell me more about how this is about the victim and not political strategy.
if anyone was concerned about his character this would have come out immediately. this was the insurance policy
Curious timing? When would be a more appropriate time to "out" the guy who sexually assaulted you then right before he was about to be appointed to one of the most powerful positions in government? Not an elected position that he could be voted out of, mind you... but a lifetime appointment? Should she have done it 15 years ago when nobody knew who he was and she had no idea who or where he was?
Your sleuthing reminds me a lot of SD's personal Russia investigation. I guess Trump must be guilty on all charges, too.
Ok Ford aside -
How about if Feinstein reported it July 20th when she knew and it could have been investigated ? That would be pretty good there
You may be right about Feinstein and her motives. I have no idea and no interest in speculating. I'm interested in whether Kavanaugh did what this woman alleges that he did. If so, he has no business being on SCOTUS; I don't care that he was only 17 at the time.
She should absolutely show up for the hearing and testify under oath. The person she alleges was in the room should be forced to do the same. It's easy to say "I don't remember that happening" when there's nothing on the line. Let him get sworn and say it under oath.
Bingo - 100% agreed there. It was handled horribly and by doing it at the last minute - we may not have that information before this goes to a vote. That’s my whole point.
Ford seems willing now to testify sometime next week. If she can't remember things though, I don't see how it does anything to affect Kavanaugh's confirmation. People do make things up. I'm sure when RBG retires or croaks, we'll be going through this same circus again with the next nominee.
"Any other men want to chime in about how women should act in response to getting sexually assaulted?"
IMMEDIATELY.
"This isn't a criminal investigation at this point; it's a question of the character of a man who is about to be appointed for life to the highest court in the land. But I guess if pussy grabbers can be President, why not SCOTUS justices too?"
Well, after Byrd the KKK member (Democrat), Kennedy the philanderer and manslaughter-er (Democrat), and Clinton the perjurist, philanderer, cad, adulterer, and alleged rapist (Democrat), does it matter any more?
"Your sleuthing reminds me a lot of SD's personal Russia investigation. I guess Trump must be guilty on all charges, too."
Remember Ian- it's (still) INNOCENT until PROVEN guilty..... that goes for Kavanaugh, Trump, and anyone else you care to mention, either political party. Kavanuagh's character remains intact UNTIL it is PROVEN it's not. Anything else is just opinion, and irrelevant (except in the counrt of public opinion, where there is no due process)
"She should absolutely show up for the hearing and testify under oath. The person she alleges was in the room should be forced to do the same. "
It's not necessary to "force" Kavanaugh- he'll be there, he WANTS to be there. SHE'S the one that apparently needs to be "forced". I don't think the "other guy" was even invited? But yes- agreed- subpoena him.
"Remember Ian- it's (still) INNOCENT until PROVEN guilty..... that goes for Kavanaugh, Trump, and anyone else you care to mention, either political party. Kavanuagh's character remains intact UNTIL it is PROVEN it's not."
You're confusing this with a criminal proceeding. You don't need to be convicted of anything to have your character sullied and suspect. If this woman testifies and they find her testimony credible, then what? It's still a "he said, she said" situation that would never result in a criminal conviction, but it could certainly give someone a reason to vote not to appoint him.
"Well, after Byrd the KKK member (Democrat), Kennedy the philanderer and manslaughter-er (Democrat), and Clinton the perjurist, philanderer, cad, adulterer, and alleged rapist (Democrat), does it matter any more?"
You're comparing elected officials who can be voted out of office at any time to a SCOTUS appointment that is for life. Big difference.
Maybe some event in the earlier part of her life made her uncomfortable with a bunch of white guys trying to force her to do things.
Yes it absolutely does matter. Shouldn't we at least try to progress as a society towards having people in important positions that haven't tried to rape someone? The past is the past, I'm talking moving forward.
"You're comparing elected officials who can be voted out of office at any time to a SCOTUS appointment that is for life. Big difference."
It's not that big a difference- presidents appoint SCOTUS judges, and Senators approve them. Also, when applying principal evenly across the board, there is no difference. Good character or bad, doesn't matter whether you're voting for mayor, president, senator, or anything else.
BUT also on that note, I'm all for term limits on ALL judges across the board- not just SCOTUS. AS WELL AS FOR BOTH HOUSES OF CONGRESS. If it's "good enough" for the president, it's good enough for EVERYONE.
"The past is the past, I'm talking moving forward."
How... convenient, since it currently serves you. Too bad the democrats didn't feel that away about Obama when they were blaming Bush for everything during his 8 years. But that's SOP.
I agree with your sentiment, I felt that way back during Bill Clinton's campaign for president. But apparently it didn't matter then. On HL and in the MSM, it only seems to "matter" when it's a republican being accused, interestingly....hmm....
“white guys” used four different tones in this post, numerous other times on other posts.
Am I allowed to say that I find this reference just as ridiculous as any other racist comment?
“a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race”
You can, it's just ironic that when people post racist comments on here they pretty much come and go without anyone having a problem with them. And then if you mention white guys, people seem to get triggered.
Who has made a comment other than me Reasonable? No one that I can think of actually. And I’m not “triggered”, just confused by its seemingly frequent use when racism is being (rightfully) denounced daily in other areas of conversation.
Here it comes....
Cohen just went down for over four hours with Team Mueller, uh oh. He has had a number of sessions Probably no talk about Russians. My goodness, Cohen may be trying for redemption.
Trump tries for October surprise with unredacted FISA classified document dump; first time a President has declassified intelligence sources and methods for an ongoing investigation on himself. Gonna be some law written on this one.
Ford testimony is not a trial, it is not an investigation, under oath, under penalty of perjury, by professionals. There are at least two other witnesses not currently scheduled to appear as the Republication’s November rush to judegment rolls on unabated. She must divulge her testimony tommorrow so Kav and Repubs get discovery; Ford doesn’t. Don’t matter. Someday the truth will come out from whatever witnesses are out there and we can deal with any perjury there.
Kav and Repubs are afraid of the FBI and lying. Ford is brave and just asking for due process. They are afraid of November’s Trump effect so no time for prudence.
She didn’t want to come forward.....EVER. She went to Feinstein for anonymity. Feinstein went to ethics committee to see if anonymity could be assured. Thus, the Feinstein interval.
If this doesn’t tell you why women don’t come forward, then look at the Trump women, look at the Clinton women, look at what is happening to Ford.
Give this women a level playing field. Let the FBI do what it is trained to do, not the untrained Congress looking for their next vote. Gather any other witnesses the FBI can find. That’s all she is asking for. And remember, she says, and everything about her seems to back it up, she did not want to remove anonymity.
I mean, if she’s right, then this sob covered her mouth, and there’s little question as to rape attempt in that, blackout drunk or not. And even if High School, that -(2()head should not be on SCOTUS.
Oh yeah, JeffRep...
I almost forgot.....
You’re a Libertarian...
And I’m an ordained minister....
HaHaHa
I don't know, but aren't 14 year old little girls getting drunk and hanging with boys older than her considered "Tramps" anymore. I am sure in the 80's when she was whoring around, there were more boys then this one. Who else nailed her? Just saying.
"Oh yeah, JeffRep...
I almost forgot.....
You’re a Libertarian..."
It shouldn't matter which political party you are from: in America, you are INNOCENT until PROVEN guilty. Political party does not apply (except that's the problem: it DOES.)
“Give this women a level playing field. Let the FBI do what it is trained to do, not the untrained Congress looking for their next vote“
The FBI investigates crimes - this is a job interview -
https://www.npr.org/2018/09/20/649853869/fact-check-can-the-senate-enlist-the-fbi-to-reopen-a-kavanaugh-investigation
The senate has a trained investigative body and has conducted them since the 1790s.
https://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/history/common/briefing/Investigations.htm
This is not done by the senators themselves but they can request to interview parties directly.
Giving her a level playing field would have been to report the allegation immediately - are you honestly trying to tell me that the senate does not have a mechanism to deal with sensitive investigations and crimestein had to interviene? Not buying it sir - political maneuver.
Skippy; sure, its all political maneuvers, but remember, you have the lead. Both sides are jockeying. Just be fair.
Your article shows exactly how the JC can start the FBI up; the Exec branch could jump start it too. Not criminal? Attempted rape? Whatever. Check the article.
Being allowed to do investigations does not necessarily mean professional. If the Anita Hill saga shows; there were no professionals in that room those days.
The FBI has trained professionals for investigating sexual abuse cases; that’s what they do. Grassleys staff do not.
The lead Grassley investigator is at #confirmkavanaugh. Really.
Or why don’t they just follow the same process that Trump is using for his testimony in front of Team Mueller. His not talking doesn’t seem to bother the trumpets at all.
Remember Cohen; Hell hath no fury ad the conspirator scorned.
Guess what. Turns out there’s no statute of limitations on this crime. Go Grassley go, there’s apparently another forum. Worse yet, they’re liberal. Heh heh heh.
No, this crime, rape. The crime of rape Not this particular case.
But point taken
What it says SD is that the FBI could take an advisory role.
“Judiciary Committee Chairman Chuck Grassley, R-Iowa, could ask President Trump to instruct the FBI to become involved. The bureau reports to him in the organizational structure of the government, and for these purposes acts as a kind of "contractor" for the White House, as former FBI assistant director Ron Hosko told NPR.”
The FBI got this referral and sent it to the White House - they did not feel it was in their wheelhouse and sent it to the whitehouse who referred it back to the judiciary committee.
The victim here does not have any right to demand the law enforcement agency of her choice investigate.
Democrats Yesterday: "Prof Ford has to be heard"
Democrats Today: "How dare you ask Prof Ford to testify"
pick a lane.
GRASSLEY "I have offered her the opportunity to testify in: (1) a public hearing; (2) a private hearing; (3) a public staff interview; or ( 4) a private staff interview. I am even willing to have my staff travel to Dr. Ford in California or anywhere else-to obtain her testimony,”
https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/2018-09-19%20Grassley%20to%20Feinstein%20-%20Original%20Ford%20Letter.pdf
let me put it another way since you seem to prefer prose..
He asked her to testify on a box, he asked her to testify with a pair of socks, he asked her to testify with a bagel and lox, but she said she would not testify, Grassley I Am. He asked her to testify in a car, he asked her to testify near and far. She will not testify near and far, she will not testify, Grassley, I am.
“The (alleged) crime of (attempted) rape”
Actually, is that what she accused him of? Or was it sexual misconduct? Not sure if there was an actual legal charge filed-was there?
I think she just wrote a statement - the charges would be determined by the agency / prosecutor. Nobody outside the FBI and White House and 2 senators has seen it
Seeing as there is no statute of limitations on the offense in Maryland where this allegedly occurred - Why is Dr. Ford and her counsel not persuing that route if the interest is justice.
The left is circumventing due process - Kavananugh has denied the allegations under oath.
If the left cared about women - why are you ok with the fact that Ford requested to remain anaonymous and her name was leaked to the media so crimestein could start this circus?
If you don’t want a republican on the court challenge his ideas and past rulings - you don’t get to destroy multiple peoples lives to Get your way.
Did a little catch up reading this am: “sexual assault” is the accusation, not rape or attempted rape.
"Skippy; sure, its all political maneuvers, but remember, you have the lead. Both sides are jockeying. Just be fair. "
No, to be TRUTHFUL (what is "Fair" anyway?), the democrats are jockying. The republicans nominated a qualified candidate, and want to have a confirmation vote. The hearings are over. EVERYTHING else is political jockying by the democrats at this point.... even BEFORE this stuff with Ford came up... even RBG said the current process is "wrong" .
Ginsburg laments modern-day contentious confirmation hearings"
Washington (CNN)-Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg said that modern-day Supreme Court confirmation hearings have become a "highly partisan show."
"The way it was, was right," she said, referring to her own hearings in 1993 when, as a former lawyer for the ACLU, she was confirmed 96-3.
"The way it is, is wrong," she added.
Sotomayor confirmed 68-31
Elana Kagen 63-37
Obama got his two. Time for Trump to get his 2nd.
ALL the rest of it is nothing more than an attempt to delay/derail the nomination, dirty politics (but then most politics are dirty), and an effort to affect the midterm elections. You can try to claim the moral high ground with "#MeToo", but the bottom line is, if Ford won't testify, then the issue is dead. She has been invited. She has been told it could be done in private. She was told they would GO TO HER for the testimony. "No", "no", "no." Well then, you lose your right to protest.
If she won't testify, given all the opportunities she has been given, I call bluff. Or at the very least she's unsure of what the truth is, how it really happened, if it was even Kavanaugh. The GOP has done all the are required to do, and if she doesn't show on monday, they should move forward with the vote.
...providing ANOTHER "victim" doesn't come out of the woodwork, which would not surprise me in the least... the dems probably already have one in the bullpen...
And as far as MeToo, must be true.... here's another one.... (from 2013, not that that makes any difference)
"let me put it another way since you seem to prefer prose..
He asked her to testify on a box, he asked her to testify with a pair of socks, he asked her to testify with a bagel and lox, but she said she would not testify, Grassley I Am. He asked her to testify in a car, he asked her to testify near and far. She will not testify near and far, she will not testify, Grassley, I am."
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
PERFECT!!!
Well, this is interesting.... and it's HUFFPOST, so it MUST be credible! lol
In three HuffPost/YouGov surveys ― one taken entirely before the scandal broke, one after the revelation that an allegation had been made against him and the third after the accuser, Christine Blasey Ford, publicly stepped forward ― opposition to confirming Kavanaugh has ranged between 31 and 34 percent."
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/brett-kavanugh-sexual-assault-allegation-public-opinion_us_5ba23ce2e4b013b09780d1b3
SO... for whatever reason, the dems don't seem to be succeeding in "Judge Roy Moore-ing" Kavanaugh. Perhaps it is just desensitization- the boy who cried wolf one too many times- the people are finally realizing all politics is like this, and therefore each new "crisis" holds less and less water.
But make no mistake- that IS what this is about. They are trying to use Kavanaugh- even if he gets confirmed- to "Roy Moore" the midterms, in hopes of gaining control of the House, so they can impeach Trump. They play several moves ahead- it's time we start doing the same.
hear her out and call for the vote, sit him on the court on October 1st, get it done already
“Show me the man and I’ll find you the crime.”
"Alan Dershowitz discusses his time litigating cases in the old Soviet Union. He was always taken by the fact that they could prosecute anybody they wanted because some of the statutes were so vague. Dershowitz points out that this was a technique developed by Beria, the infamous sidekick of Stalin, who said, “Show me the man and I’ll find you the crime.”
https://www.cato.org/policy-report/januaryfebruary-2010/criminalization-almost-everything
This Stalinistic technique is on full display by the out of power Democrats who will do anything and say anything to derail the nomination of a qualified judge.
Ya all should know that this is just wrong. All of you.
"If you don’t want a republican on the court challenge his ideas and past rulings"
Sure, just release the documents and we will. Just like you overlooked Trump's tax forms, to get your man in, and get him in fast, you are avoiding thousands of pages of documentation. We can't challenge what you choose to hide.
"Burck, a private attorney, is a Kavanaugh associate who works for George W. Bush and worked with Bush’s presidential library and is helping oversee the decisions about which documents from Kavanaugh’s time as Bush’s associate counsel should be given to Congress or made public."
"Republicans said at the end of August that they had received 415,000 pages of documents, 147,000 of which were deemed to be “committee confidential,” meaning they could be viewed by any senator but not publicly disclosed. Typical Trumpian transparency that all trumpets enjoy.
Then, on Friday, the White House said it would not release an additional 101,921 pages to the panel, so even senators haven’t seen them. Finally, hours before the hearing, the White House sent 42,000 pages to the committee with instructions that they be kept confidential by senators who viewed them."
"“Careful,” a second White House official responded in an email that was sent to Kavanaugh. “These e-mails will all be disclosed in 12 years.”
“Not if Brett can help it,” the first White House official responded."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/the-story-behind-the-withheld-documents-of-the-kavanaugh-hearing/2018/09/04/55336a2a-b05c-11e8-a20b-5f4f84429666_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.9c66e1928b02
I found some additional prose for Skippy to have fun with.
"The left is circumventing due process" Like avoiding the due process Grassley and Hatch promoted, used, and applauded for Anita Hill when allegations of this sort arise. Let's face it, it's all a Republican ploy to hide the fact that Cohen is singing out loud. And the Libertarians are in full compliance....with something. It's the Dumb State taking over.
You don't have the balls to face the FBI under penalty of lying just like Trump don't have the balls to face Mueller under the penalty of his normalcy. You talk due process, fair play and the like but when it comes down to it, you're a bunch of winners who continually act like whiners. Here's today's sampling of some winners amongst the whiners.
"This Stalinistic technique is on full display by the out of power Democrats who will do anything and say anything to derail the nomination of a qualified judge." Yeah, like the technique you call for is due process......
"Just unbelievable the tactics the Dems use. That's how they defeated Roy Moore, and then they go on TV stating how it was a fair election." METS commented on his tragic loss of Roy Moore, his hero.
"SO... for whatever reason, the dems don't seem to be succeeding in "Judge Roy Moore-ing" Kavanaugh." JR on how Roy Moore is the Democrats fault, not his hero Roy Moore.
"But make no mistake- that IS what this is about. They are trying to use Kavanaugh- even if he gets confirmed- to "Roy Moore" the midterms, in hopes of gaining control of the House, so they can impeach Trump." JR on Democratic strategy of using his hero Roy Moore wrongly.
"I don't know, but aren't 14 year old little girls getting drunk and hanging with boys older than her considered "Tramps" anymore. I am sure in the 80's when she was whoring around, there were more boys then this one. Who else nailed her? Just saying." AUNTIEL, well, heck, let it stand for itself because, yes, their is a word for this person.
JeffRep.
“They play several moves ahead, it’s time we start doing the same”.
So much for your hiding behind the shield of “I’m an Independent “ or “I’m strictly a Libertarian”
Bull crap.
Admit it, you’re a line walking Republican.
Nothing wrong with that.
What’s wrong is when you scurry behind that shield when things go bad in the GOP kitchen.
Phoney Baloney
“Show me the man and I’ll find you the crime.”
Dershowitz points out that this was a technique developed by Beria, the infamous sidekick of Stalin, who said, “Show me the man and I’ll find you the crime.”
The Democrats shamelessly employing the techniques of the Stalin Regime. Sad, very sad . . . .
Ya' all should know that this is just wrong, sadly you don't. (pathetic)
“Obama got his two. Time for Trump to get his 2nd.” Trump stole one. Time to steal one from Trump. Wait for the mid terms, what do you fear except “FEAR” itself.
Cohen to be some Stormy weather out there, better Mana-fort.
Stymie, there are no more line-walking Republicans, very few true conservatives, just a bunch of trumpets: brassy little instruments with flared ends and penetrating sounds like the loud shrill cry of an elephant.
"Admit it, you’re a line walking Republican.
Nothing wrong with that."
I used to be.
But I'm not any more. Makes no difference to me whether you believe it or not. Because I wised up. You should do the same, especially considering your post above which was quite well thought-out.
BTW, I have NEVER said I am a member of the Libertarian Party or "strictly libertarian" (your use of quotes was in error.) I am a libertarian in principle, unfortunately 99% of the time we aren't talking about a libertarian CANDIDATE, so I have to apply my libertarian principles to the choice of democrat or republican, and choose accordingly (or choose to not choose at all).
On THIS PARTICULAR issue, yes- I side with the republicans. Meaning, I don't believe or disbelieve Ford, but she has been given an opportunity to testify. If she chooses not to, that's ON HER. The democrats feigning the "moral high ground" falls on deaf ears coming from the party of Bill & Hillary Clinton.
Kavanaugh is qualified. Period. Just like Gorsuch was. Just like Sotomayor and Kagen were. Period. SCOTUS is not a "popularity contest" like elected positions are. Judges are not supposed to be political.
If this event actually happened, it's Ford's DUTY to show up and testify. If she doesn't, it's done. You can BLAME HER for not following through.
BTW, some republican issues I DISAGREE with:
The Patriot Act
never-ending war on terror
never-ending war on drugs
passing spending bills without cutting spending (both parties)
the TSA/increased surveillance of the populace (both parties)
So... STYMIE.... let's hear some issues on which you disagree with the democrats on? Got ANY?
Just saying: "Republican Senators Orrin Hatch (R-UT) and Jon Kyl (R-AZ) with Democratic Senators Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) and Chuck Schumer (D-NY). The Public Safety and Cyber Security Enhancement Act was introduced on September 20 to the House by Republican Rep. Lamar Smith (R-TX) The Intelligence to Prevent Terrorism Act was introduced to the Senate on September 28 by Senators Bob Graham (D-FL) and Jay Rockefeller (D-WV)." WIKI
98 votes for. Senator Russ Feingold of Wisconsin was the only senator who voted against the Patriot Act on October 24, of 2001.
There are a number of versions, iterations, and I may have the wrong bills against the vote shown, but suffice it to say ---- about as bilateral as they get.
Same with The War on Terror. You can own the others, just note the last one is somewhat, if not totally redundant with the first.
Just saying.
And do you really disagree with The Patriot Act? As in abolish?
When did Roy Moore become my boy? He's just another one who got accused by women of things from decades ago that each of these women chose not to do anything about just like Ford did with Kavanaugh. What are all women that afraid to make police reports? And just so happens Moore's accusers suddenly came out just before the election to stonewall him and got the Democrat elected. To think this stuff isn't political you have to be blind as a bat.... Now Ford wants Kavanaugh to testify first... Um it doesn't work that way. She's the one making accusations. Tell us your story or go away....
Only you can answer when Roy Moore "became your boy." We don't track Moore supporters.
"What are all women that afraid to make police reports?" There's many reasons, one is you, your attitudes, and your resentment of women stepping up. But try shame, denial, minimalization, fear of the consequences, low self-esteem, feelings of helplessness, drugged, and more: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-compassion-chronicles/201711/why-dont-victims-sexual-harassment-come-forward-sooner
"And just so happens Moore's accusers suddenly came out just before the election to stonewall him and got the Democrat elected. To think this stuff isn't political you have to be blind as a bat...." That's right, it's political. Sometimes, as much as abused women don't want to relive this hell they tried so hard to forget, politics gets them to step up and be political.
Maybe if you don't like it, then quit having a-wipes like Moore enter the arena.
"Being allowed to do investigations does not necessarily mean professional. If the Anita Hill saga shows; there were no professionals in that room those days."
It's not 1991 any more. There is no one in that chamber who would DARE treat this woman in any way, shape or form the way Ms. Hill was treated.
It's a brave new world and the Vocal Minority Social Media Justice Warriors would DESTROY any Senator who attempted to paint her as a liar or a tramp or whatever... she should go tell her story when she's invited to do so or the committee should deem the allegation as not credible and move onto a confirmation vote. She also shouldn't be making demands. She's not special.
SD he was never my boy. And I would expect my daughters to come to me or the police if something happened to them. Your claims about my views are ridiculous... No one is going to belittle a woman who files a police report. You need to go back in hiding because you bring a level of big time irrationality with each post you make...
Why is it that Republican politicians, especially in light of the current national debate, can't process any sexual misconduct issue without attacking the credibility of women indicting the famous and powerful men under question instead of using our foundational value of a human's right to a fair hearing, and one that is conducted with sensitivity, compassion, and care?
Do we have to hear about genital shape and size again?
In what universe do you say, they don't dare when fairness is defined as: "OK, turn up in six days, have your written testimony here in 4 days. We will lock Kavanaugh up in the White House War Room for the full six days prepping instead. Here's his testimony: "I didn't do it." Get chopping little accuser.....get chopping. Oh, yeah, and to make it easier for you, no witnesses to confuse the issue with clarity. But we will have a full chamber of white men, televised across the world and with much experience nailing a little chippy like you. Not to worry dear, you are not Anita. We've gotten better since then. But not much.....
We were going to investigate like Anita Hill, but nah... Then we were going to have a trial, but nah.... We were gonna have witnesses like Anita Hill, but nah... Instead we are just going to listen to your written testimony, which we have already, tyvm, since we took the last 96-hours with the entire staff to prepare our adversarial, partisan, FEAR, I mean fair questions, to which you can not plead the 5th, you can not object ---- this is not a trial, remember..... Oh yeah, our Committee Head thinks you're mixed up, but he's as fair as he was the last time he did this. Good luck little girl, heh, heh, heh.
Wait, wait, you don't have to do it here. We will send our investigators out. Where's Mike Davis my top guy.... Oh here's his twitter: "Unfazed and determined. We will confirm Judge Kavanaugh." @ ConfrimKanvanaugh #SCOTUS from Mike Davis, Grassley's lead investigator on the case and good buddy, no doubt, with Peter Strzok and Lisa Page.
"There is no one in that chamber who would DARE treat this woman in any way, shape or form the way Ms. Hill was treated." Ianimal the magnanimous....not. Really, would they not say:
“We got a little hiccup here with the Kavanaugh nomination. We’ll get through this and we’ll get off to the races.” Heller zoom zoom zoom.
On fairness: “You know, I don’t fall for it anymore. I hope the American people aren’t falling for it. These allegations, 99 percent of the time, are just absolutely fabricated.” McDaniel
On plausibillty and openness: "Well, in high school you did this.’ High school? Give me a break.” Rohrabacher
"The problem is, Dr. Ford can’t remember when it was, where it was, or how it came to be,” Cornyn
"This has been a drive-by shooting when it comes to Kavanaugh . . . I’ll listen to the lady, but we’re going to bring this to a close.” Graham and the lady....
On keeping it light “Did you hear about this? Ruth Bader Ginsburg came out saying she was groped by Abraham Lincoln.” Norman on women.
On the ills of prejudgment: "The judge, who I know very, very well [and] is an honest man said this didn’t happen,” Hatch said, adding that there is “some question” about if Ford was “mixed up.” No forgone conclusions there, let's have a hearing.....
On due process: “Republicans extended a hand in good faith. If we don’t hear from both sides on Monday, let’s vote." Corker
“She’s not in really a position to make conditions in my view.” Corner
And in conclusion, no one would dare say: "I have no doubt that, if the attack on Dr. Ford was as bad as she says, charges would have been immediately filed with local Law Enforcement Authorities by either her or her loving parents. I ask that she bring those filings forward so that we can learn date, time, and place!" Trump
I am Spartacus!
"No one is going to belittle a woman who files a police report." METS
Are you delusional?
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/womens-blog/2014/nov/21/police-letting-rape-victims-down-too
Just google "do women who file police reports get belittled" or anything close and have your eyes opened. We expect a your report soon :>)
quoted from above:
"Ford's attorney, Debra Katz, is an anti-Trump activist and Democratic donor who has previously defended Democrats accused of sexual assault.
During the Clinton Administration, Katz actively defended Bill Clinton against charges Paul Jones was sexually assaulted. Katz likewise defended Al Franken after he was accused of sexual assault. She's donated more than $25,000 to Democratic candidates, and has described Trump supporters as "miscreants." More recently she was scheduled to appear at a fundraiser for Sen. Tammy Baldwin (who is one of the senators proclaiming their belief in Ford's story), but which was canceled after receiving media attention."
SD you're one of the reasons why Trump got elected. There's a lack of rationality on the left. You expect candidates to be burned at the stake without evidence or in this case a coherent story. I fear the day your version of America takes hold. It won't be the United States of America anymore. It'll be the Socialist States of America.
" I fear the day your version of America takes hold. It won't be the United States of America anymore. It'll be the Socialist States of America." - - - Metsman
It is Stalinist what these Dems are doing for sure. And it was a communist Beria, the infamous sidekick of Stalin, who said, “Show me the man and I’ll find you the crime.”
"In what universe do you say, they don't dare when fairness is defined as: "OK, turn up in six days, have your written testimony here in 4 days. We will lock Kavanaugh up in the White House War Room for the full six days prepping instead. Here's his testimony: "I didn't do it." Get chopping little accuser.....get chopping. Oh, yeah, and to make it easier for you, no witnesses to confuse the issue with clarity. But we will have a full chamber of white men, televised across the world and with much experience nailing a little chippy like you. Not to worry dear, you are not Anita. We've gotten better since then. But not much..... "
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/09/21/trump-kavanaugh-christine-blasey-ford-charges-834664
she doesn't want to fly - apparently they are going to let her drive - that's cool the entire country will wait till Thursday for you to meander out here... that's why you have the delay.
they offered to get her a female special council to ask the questions so she did not have to hear from 11 men - her attorney denied that
"The senator added that Republicans are not inclined to agree with Ford’s lawyers that she should only be questioned by lawmakers – not an outside counsel."
this is all a moot point if the dems wanted an investigation it would have happened in July, when Ford turned over the allegation to Feinstein.
let me know when Ford decides to drive in circles in Topeka until November. lol
This is a damn joke. This woman is ridiculous. Just tell your story. How hard is that... You're a grown up. Put your big girl pants on.
I hope for SD sake there isn't a women from his past (no matter his age at the time) that accuses him of rape without proof. I'm sorry she doesn't need proof, accusation is good enough to destroy him and hang him out to dry. Let's hope his wife and lovey children would be able to handle it.
She will probably get around 3 flat tires along the way and not make it there when she is supposed to. Her and her lawyer shouldn't be allowed to dictate the terms of the meeting.
In all seriousness I would think for her safety they woud insist she be on a plane next to a capital police officer / Marshall - lot can happen I’m 5K miles
Meanwhile video of her attorney just surfaced and she is a member of the Resist Movement.
binge drinking was all the norm for her highschool years:
https://conservativefiringline.com/report-scrubbed-yearbooks-from-christine-fords-school-years-allegedly-show-faculty-approved-drinking-promiscuity/
She and her friends were indeed party girls in highschool :
HOLTON FACULTY APPROVED BINGE DRINKING
Scribe 84 is the yearbook for her senior year. Her name was Christine Blasey in high school, often referred to as “Chrissy”. In the image below, Blasey is pictured at a Halloween party in her junior year. The caption on the right says:
“Lastly one cannot fail to mention the climax of the junior social scene, the party. Striving to extend our educational experience beyond the confines of the classroom, we played such intellectually stimulating games as Quarters, Mexican Dice and everyone’s favorite, Pass-Out, which usually resulted from the aforementioned two.”
https://cultofthe1st.blogspot.com/2018/09/why-christine-blasey-fords-high-school_19.html
“And do you really disagree with The Patriot Act? As in abolish?”
IMMEDIATELY!!!!! That bit of legislation is about power, plain and simple. It’s actually pretty sickening when you delve into the guts of it because of how much control it shifts from the people to the government, and especially damning when you look back at what it really did to the fabric of our society. It’s a brain-dead piece of legislation that only religious followers of the pillars of government can justify. And if you disagree with that comment I’d ask if you really know what the act is vs how you simply *feel* about it. Remember when and why it was passed as you consider my words.
As to the rest of what’s being posted in this thread lately: HOLY COW! I think the Patriot Act or some other legislation mandates the addition of a hallucinogenic to the public water supply, or at the very least that of anyone who lives and breathes bipartisan politics!
Pop quiz for SD especially, but for all really. Name the word which the following words define:
“true understanding of the relative importance of things; a sense of proportion”
That word doesn’t mean the same as dismissive btw so please don’t confuse the two. It only means that if the deed was so incredibly harmful to the person reporting it that a delay of 35 or so years to take action should raise some eyebrows, especially because the only possible reason for reporting it *now* is for political gain. The ONLY reason. The singular reason. The duopoly political reason. The odds for any other reason, given the timing, are so infinitesimally small that this a slam-dunk politically motivated character trashing, a typical Republicrat move.
If this incident doesn’t scream “ALL REPUBLICRATS ARE TRYING TO MANIPULATE YOUR THOUGHT PROCESS” then we really do deserve what we get for being dumb-ass Americans!
Friday was certainly not Mueller time. Looks like Hamlet’s Rosenstein and Guildencrantz Are Dead is playing this week. Will Trump fire away? Is the Twitter HR machine ready?
Auntie: Tell the truth: I really doubt you are hoping anything good in your personal attacks but leave my wife and children out of it please. That’s beneath even you.
“Obama got his two. Time for Trump to get his 2nd.” Trump stole one. Time to steal one from Trump. Wait for the mid terms, what do you fear except “FEAR” itself.
JIT: way to take a stand below 30K feet; odd that this one just buggers your imagination. Must be perspective. I mean you, and others, seem to be unable to consider how if “the deed was so incredibly harmful to the person reporting it that a delay of 35 or so years to take action should raise some eyebrows” as if you, or others, have never seen such a sexual abuse result and, from your perspective, you have raised eyebrows. Your perspective concludes “especially because the only possible reason for reporting it *now* is for political gain. The ONLY reason. The singular reason.” Not much wiggle room in that perspective since “The odds for any other reason, given the timing, are so infinitesimally small that this a slam-dunk politically motivated character trashing, a typical Republicrat move.” Well, when you come down from 30K feet, you sure go for the hard landing :>) Sure, once the topic is broached, and it is decided to head to Congress, there will be politics involved. But as to politics involved in the initial decision: that's conjecture on all our parts. You taught us that :>) Remember.
Could it be that seeing Kavanaugh after all these years, being promoted to a life-time assignment affecting every law in our land, an assignment that demands the highest level of spotless integrity in our Republic, that seeing this might have just irked her beyond her ability to remain quiet all these years? It’s not like she underestimated the Hell she was entering.
Clearly you have not researched sexual abuse and the effects. https://cmsac.org/facts-and-statistics/
Perspective: “No one who understands the nature of trauma and sexual assault thinks that it’s a big deal when women don’t tell an authority for months or years about an assault.” No one. Your shaming and blaming the victim alone might give anyone pause about coming forward.
“Not every woman wants to upend her life in the pursuit of justice, or even deal with criticism about “playing the victim” from their peers or institutions.” Ditto that based on our thread and the Republican quotes attacking the victim that I have noted above.
“In fact, in cases like Ford's, there's no excuse to resort to old victim-shaming tropes. We have the tools now. We must use them.” Somehow, I don’t think that’s what’s happening here, but then again, that’s my perspective.
https://www.glamour.com/story/read-this-before-asking-christine-blasey-ford-waited-tell-brett-kavanaugh-story
What I wonder about is, if Ford is so ready to go, why not file a court case? I mean she’s ready, there are at least two other witnesses, she may have more, and, according to HL research, there’s plenty of people engaging in these frequent drunken events that could certainly paint a picture of the accused and the accuser. Better yet, let the Republicans vote for Kavanaugh while he’s in an attempted rape case. Bet there will be plenty of money available for a most thorough investigation then. I just wonder why they haven’t jumped-shifted to that approach. I mean it’s Montgomery County, he’s guilty already in that court :>)
SD all anyone wants is to hear Ford's story. Now she's playing games with her lawyers. This woman is supposedly a clinical psychologist and can't cope with testifying.... makes ridiculous requests like having Kavanaugh testify first... What's he going to say other than what he already has said that this didn't happen.... You need her story in order to interrogate him. And so far what we know is she can't even give a location or when it happened. This is all just a political stunt. And if the shoe were on the other foot and it was the Republicans playing the same game the Democrats are, because lets be honest this woman and her lawyers are Democrats, I'd be saying the same thing. The American people are tired of BS like this....
Does anyone know if the other girls that were in the house at the time of the attack have come forward
"Does anyone know if the other girls that were in the house at the time of the attack have come forward" I think you're a fair person, Maja, but think about what you just asked and how that might be taken. My question is the have any of other men in the house have come forward....actually it's has anyone come forward, right?
The answer is who cares, it's Congress....there will be NO witnesses even though there are enough of them out there.
"Cristina Miranda King wrote in a later-deleted Facebook post that, while Blasey Ford was “was a year or so behind me,” in their high school, “I remember her. This incident did happen.”Miranda King’s post added: “Many of us heard a buzz about it indirectly with few specific details.”
"Chairman Chuck Grassley said Republican committee staffers had sought interviews with two other unnamed “alleged witnesses,” in addition to Blasey Ford, Kavanaugh, and Mark Judge, the latter of whom Ford alleges was in the room during the alleged assault."
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/blasey-ford-attorney-multiple-witnesses-should-be-heard-at-hearing
Kinda funny really given my high school was smack dab in the middle of both of these elite institutions, or should I rephrase that: institutions of the elite. And yeah, it's all true. I am Spartacus, open the wine, let's party. Actually, we tended to avoid the drinkin rich.
One thing that strikes me as odd about the Ford affair is how totally inept Congress seems to be in terms of process, procedure, and therefore, professionalism.
Wouldn't you think that after Anita Hill that Congress would have created a governance model to formally structure the process and the process owners as to what happens when accusations fly. Instead Grassley is not only winging it, he's in complete, 100%, total disagreement with the earlier model created by......amazingly....Grassley.... Hatch too. Not only that, but the process model for Hill included witnesses, FBI investigation, discovery windows and a number of other operational procedures Grassley has specifically denied this accuser.
I mean practice makes perfect, and in terms of a need for a standardized process seems readily apparent given all the claims in Congress. Here's just a couple dozen at the highest levels of our government. https://www.govtrack.us/misconduct If you filter by sex abuse, you can see the list of participants.
Meanwhile our President, not exactly process oriented outside of the Trump-process, suggests his process: ""I have no doubt that, if the attack on Dr. Ford was as bad as she says, charges would have been immediately filed with local Law Enforcement Authorities by either her or her loving parents. I ask that she bring those filings forward so that we can learn date, time, and place!" Guess the Trump process is finished, game over, mission accomplished, let's vote. Oye again.
Seems that some pre-agreed-upon governance model would be taking over the process rather than Grassley's process including now his Twitter communication channel....oye…
I'm sorry SD if what I said upset you. I really did not intend to. Honestly, I was just pointing out how a rumor or a false accusation can ruin a man and his family. As has been pointed out with Duke Lacrosse and how can we all forget Tawana Brawley. This is the part of all these false J'Accuse cases that can destroy people and their lives that upset me. You were offended just by me using you as an example, and I don't blame you. It was a low blow because it was false!! Not nice and again I apologize. We as a civil society should not tolerate this, nor should we tolerate actual accusations that are true. Women can be just as vicious and evil as men. And when it comes to J'Accuse involving sex it's quite simple, planting the seed is all it takes.
Enough SD... She's been given several options and so far hasn't agreed to anything. What's the hold up? Does she have to wait for the planets to align properly.... All this crap is, is a political stunt to keep Trump from getting a justice confirmed. I expect more of the same even if Kavnaugh isn't confirmed and he picks someone else. You're ok with this because you're a liberal and don't want the guy on the Supreme Court. Stop skirting around everything and just admit that.
Men in the house have said it did not happen. That's why I asked. As a woman, if I was there, and it happened, i would be saying so..
Really? You would just jump up and ask the press over to your front lawn, have your life turned upsides down, threats, demands to testify to Congress, total examination of every facet of your life against half the nation asking WTF is wrong with you for waiting 35.years and Auntiel calling you bad names as a test.
Just saying. Tis brave.
"As a woman, if I was there, and it happened, i would be saying so.."
Ford better start getting some better "witnesses" if she wants to have *any* actual, credible evidence. So far from those she claims were at the party:
Kavanaugh (the accused): "I categorically and unequivocally deny this allegation."
Judge (the other "accused"): "I have no memory of this alleged incident"
Leland Ingham Keyser (Ford's friend): "she has no recollection of ever being at a party or gathering where he (Kavanaugh) was present, with, or without, Dr. Ford."
Patrick J. Smyth (another male "at" the party):"I have no knowledge of the party in question; nor do I have any knowledge of the allegations of improper conduct"
https://www.weeklystandard.com/john-mccormack/blasey-fords-female-classmate-her-last-alleged-witness-denies-ever-attending-party-with-kavanaugh
From the article: "All of Ford's named witnesses of the party, both male and female, have now denied any recollection of attending such a party."
Thank you Mark Mc. That's the information I could not find.
Strangerdanger, I would have shared any information. Just gone to DC, met, left.
I had believed Ford. Maybe she has the wrong guy. Now, true or not, her story is a story. The only witnesses are non-supporting. I could be convinced that the men are lying. Her friend, no.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/witness-named-by-kavanaugh-accuser-denies-being-at-party?_amp=true
SD, aka Spin Doctor, as I mentioned in my post a bit of perspective doesn’t mean the same thing as being dismissive.
Let her file her charges and let the process play out in the court system. If he’s guilty then it will come out using due process, not the court of public opinion. But this is the clearest case of Republicrat character attack I’ve ever seen.
What I hope comes from this mess:
Vote them ALL out. Every last one of them!
SD if you're not prepared to have your life changed, then don't come out with a bombshell report. What are you kidding me... She's getting criticism because her story so far is full of holes. Come clarify it or STFU...
"SD, aka Spin Doctor, as I mentioned in my post a bit of perspective doesn’t mean the same thing as being dismissive." "But this is the clearest case of Republicrat character attack I’ve ever seen." JIT, "Spin Doctor<" you are a name calling charlatan afraid to look deep into your own mirror.
Yes, there's a lot of prejudging here, both of the victim whom many of you shame and blame incessantly as you hurry her to your "fair n balanced" Congressional testimony supplanting any concept of due process as Grassley changes his own process on his political whims.
Then you jump all over me even as I say: "What I wonder about is, if Ford is so ready to go, why not file a court case? I mean she’s ready, there are at least two other witnesses, she may have more, and, according to HL research, there’s plenty of people engaging in these frequent drunken events that could certainly paint a picture of the accused and the accuser." Yeah, JIT, I agreed with you before you came up with the idea.....
Some have looked for witnesses, I provided, you denied, and instead looked at your witnesses, not under oath, and accepted them as proof for your victim shaming. You even accepted the self-professed blackout King's MSM account. Shouldn't that be a double negative in your assessments?
Some have even made fun of her not wanting to fly as in that's a character flaw just like Madden's character flaw....
Well, for some reason, she's coming to Congress on Thursday, some details will be ironed out today. I really don't understand why she doesn't pursue this through the court system since Congress will just be a he said, she said circus where we already know the outcome ---- 51 - 49, the arena spectacle notwithstanding.
I am Spartacus.
"SD, aka Spin Doctor"
It's really amazing, the talent level. I have always said he should be working as a "journalist" in the MSM somewhere.... or even better, as a press secretary/damage control for the DNC.
Name calling pile on...…. When you can't debate, name your hate.....
But if that's the best you've got, see Auntiel for training :>)
I wonder if the current Justices realize that this guy being granted a seat along side them on the Supreme Court will cheapen the legitimacy of the Court as an institution.
The guy “ mislead” and had multiple “ lapses of memory” during the hearings - regardless of the disposition of the topic at hand.
Though they would never admit it I’m guessing the message bubble above their heads reads {{{please withdraw yourself from consideration}}}
It was a compliment SD! Consider it recognition for all of your years of hard work on this site, and for the nearly infinite volume of information you’ve shared (the vast amount of which has been factually accurate but often irrelevant, aka circumstantial, to the topic at hand) while trying to persuade others to follow “the one and only way” :-)
All joking aside, I was serious when I mentioned that you should take a break from politics for a while. You might be amazed what you’ll see about duopoly politics if you look at it from a non-Republicrat POV.
“I wonder if the current Justices realize that this guy being granted a seat along side them on the Supreme Court will cheapen the legitimacy of the Court as an institution.”
Given the news cycles of modern society I don’t think there’s any semblance of legitimacy in any government institution any more.
"I wonder if the current Justices realize that this guy being granted a seat along side them on the Supreme Court will cheapen the legitimacy of the Court as an institution."
Considering one of your heroes, Ruth Bader Ginsburg's, take on it, I'd say not.
JefersonRepub, 2 days ago:
"...providing ANOTHER "victim" doesn't come out of the woodwork, which would not surprise me in the least... the dems probably already have one in the bullpen..."
Looks like I've learned their playbook pretty well... or maybe I have a crystal ball like Stymie does LOL :
https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/24/politics/kavanaugh-new-allegation-supreme-court-future/index.html
https://www.thedailybeast.com/michael-avenatti-i-represent-a-woman-with-credible-information-on-kavanaugh
How convenient this has happened RIGHT AFTER the initial confirmation hearings, and RIGHT BEFORE the vote.
I'll have to remember that the very next democrat woman, regardless of who she is, who gets nominated to run for President or sit on SCOTUS, sexually assaulted me 35 years ago. At some house some where during some party neither of us can really remember. #MeToo
JeffRep.
You haven’t a clue as to whom my heros are.
Oops, guess you’re not an “ independent” or “ libertarian” today.
And tomorrow?
I’ll guess whatever is a more convenient for you.
No heartfelt convictions?
Didn’t think so....
So once there was proof via Kavanaughs calendar that he wasn't there, another accuser, whom doesn't clearly remember if it was him or not has come out of the woodwork.
Forget the fact he has been in the public eye for years as a judge.
Forget the fact that to be a judge and move up through the judiciary, he had no less than six yes six background checks
All which showed nothing of him exhibiting predatory behavior. Because as they allege that's what this is.
And all the others whom have come out in Kavanaughs defense say he drank in moderation and was always in control.
I guess his crime is he is a conservative judge. Actually the problem is the far left liberals whom are throwing a temper tantrum about losing.
They are using what ever tactics possible to keep the Trump administration off balance.
“It was a compliment SD!” Not many friends, right JR? At least the ones you think you are complimenting… Not to worry. I always consider the source.
“You might be amazed what you’ll see about duopoly politics if you look at it from a non-Republicrat POV. “ Wow, to have you riding above us all, announcing your judgements from on high. Do you ever wonder how it is that we disagree on almost every topic? Am I always wrong and you are always right? I mean how much duopoly politics have you seen from your very special POV that has changed your perspective from consistently choosing Trumpian stands on almost every topic? Or have you ever seen a liberal idea that you can get behind. So sure, it’s my bias you have an issue with, not yours, you rise above that…..right….sound the trumpet.
“Given the news cycles of modern society I don’t think there’s any semblance of legitimacy in any government institution any more.” You got your glass half full types, you got your glass half empty sort of guys, and then you have JR…….he’s got no glass whatsoever….glass-less.
Yes, yes, here we have those brave HL libertarians and supposed free-thinking, open-minded cloud walkers who somehow always lean to King Trump, the Putin-lovin autocrat, while claiming the left is of closed-mind with their blind allegiance.
Given Trump’s hiring record, what’s the chance that his SCOTUS selection is not qualified for some, usually torrid, reason? Roll those stats.... The list of bad hires has to be over three dozen for the highest positions in our government that Trump has personally selected, vetted, and vouched for…..in less than two years. I mean, given Trump’s hiring record, why would you openly trust anyone he brings on board. Can you spell Scaramangler? Must be the most high-level crash and burns in Presidential history…. How many pled guilty? How many in jail? How many indicted? Sure, trust him to hire well based on his own track record. Nice.
Lest you forgot, and hopefully have an hour or two to kill: Trump’s departure list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Trump_administration_dismissals_and_resignations
“It was a compliment SD!” Not many friends, right JR? At least the ones you think you are complimenting… Not to worry. I always consider the source. "
I think you have confused posters you think you're replying to... a little early to be hittin' the sauce SD....
Still getting over the weekend. It was a tough Friday and let's face it, all you anonymous old tighty-whitey guys look the same :>) Speaking of pasty, I have the answer for Rod.
Things that Rod Rosenstein needs to get on the record under the tagline: hey, it worked for me:
1. I didn’t say what you heard. No really, I just didn’t say what you heard. No really….
2. When I left the island, everyone was alive and OK.
3. I said the word ‘would’ instead of ‘wouldn’t.’
4. That’s so silly because it’s somebody’s version of the truth. Not the truth. Truth isn’t always truth.
5. I didn’t do it, the Democrats did. Lock her up.
6. I was only kidding
7. It’s locker room talk
8. It’s a joke, get over it
9. It’s tough talk, get over it
10. Heck, I’ve called Sessions worse
11. It was 35 days ago, I have changed
12. There is a need for some clarification. It should have been obvious.
Farewell Rod, can't wait to see what happens next. I think the Barron's next in line for the job......
SD, filter out the political bull crap and believe it or not we agree on many things. The differences are predominately in method of execution, and in that regard you already know where I stand.
“Yes, yes, here we have those brave HL libertarians and supposed free-thinking, open-minded cloud walkers who somehow always lean to King Trump, the Putin-lovin autocrat,“
King Trump. Putin-lovin. Your words, not mine, and 100% incorrect. It just looks that way to you because you refuse to reflect on your own behavior, or the behavior of those in power (that goes for republicans too).
“while claiming the left is of closed-mind with their blind allegiance. ”
That part should be obvious to everyone I should think. How else should people view the democratic party leadership when every day is just another round of throwing the kitchen sink at trump when all they should have to do is point out the obvious stuff? In case you’ve forgotten, ive said on many occasions now that trump is an idiot and provides plenty of reasons to go against him. But it’s not his fault that “your side” is so party-blind that they have to continuously invent additional stuff to paint him badly. It’s not needed and only serves to make them look like fools. And by regurgitating the latest dose of party doo doo you’ve chosen to join them on the playground. Cut that out and I’m sure things would be different.
IDK how anyone can take you seriously SD when you use terms like King Trump. You sound foolish.
Grassley should toughen up and call for a vote, it comes down to Flake, McCaskill and Collins, we can lose one of them and still get a 50-50 tie in the full Senate which VP Pence can cast the deciding vote
time to pull the curtain on this kabuki theater mess,
its the 1600's all over again and all you need to have is a little girl wagging her finger for someone to be burned at the stake, that's all the proof necessary, no difference here in this
wow, just wow
Kavanaugh was interviewed by Fox yesterday. Him and his wife you could see were visibly choking back tears. He also said he was a virgin in HS and College. This is just a smear campaign and very sickening. You have Ford who can't remember when and where this event happened. You have a new woman Ramirez that wasn't sure it was Kavanaugh who assaulted her until she spent 6 days with her lawyers and suddenly it became clear. You have to be a special kind of stupid at this point to believe any of this is true and is not a tactic by the Dems to prevent this guy from getting confirmed. I hope everyone around the country is paying attention. Time to vote out POS like this. Like Greyhawk said, this is the Salem witch trials all over again. It's a joke.
...and in the meantime:
https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/24/politics/republican-party-favorability/index.html
New HL poll: "He also said he was a virgin in HS and College." Got any takers out there? I sadly must vote NO. Given we had so few takers on the stud muffin survey of men who could have 65 women from High School say "he's a great guy," I expect a lot of Yes's here.... :>)
Clinton looked innocent on TV too. Trump lies, lies a lot, on TV. Apparently it's not hard to do.
Meanwhile, I say just man up, do it right, have the FBI take a couple of weeks, investigate under penalty of law for lying, and complete a short investigation. It's the only way to remove the smear, punish the guilty, including Avenatti if he represented a liar as credible.
Or continue on with the old-white-men-ask-sex-questions circus with no different outcome than that which we have today. We have Kavanaugh's testimony; we know what Ford will say, there will be no witnesses, no investigation report, a lot of partisan questions and then people will decide based on, basically, what they already know from the MSM, including FOX, today. Many, including the President, have already voted. And if that's the way we roll, then we know that all the witnesses, etc. will be investigated and ultimately, seated or not, the truth will be, like Kavanaugh, exposed.
Meanwhile, here come Avenatti with a stable of accusers, one to come forward in 48 hours is both a Judge/Kavanaugh witness and a victim. https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/24/politics/michael-avenatti-brett-kavanaugh-cnntv/index.html
Man up, do the investigation, prove them liars, prove the Democrats as playing dirty pool ----- all good stuff I would think you would like.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/09/25/ted-cruz-heckled-by-radical-protesters-in-dc-restaurant-video.html
People really are insane... I can see it now... Kavanaugh gets confirmed and idiots like this will start rioting...
We need the list of these restaurants. I bet that they have good eats.
Meanwhile...…
JIT, filter out the political bull crap and believe it or not we don’t agree on much beyond the debt risk. And where we do agree, we differ mightily in method of execution. And, based on the personal attacks, it's pretty obvious that you just don't like me. I can live with that because I love you, man.
King Trump. Putin-lovin. Your words, not mine, and 100% incorrect.
Trump’s father used to tell his boys: "You are a killer, you are a king,"
King Trump:
- Demands fealty from the serfs working for him
- Issues taxes without Congressional representation
- Believes he is above the law: has said it often, Rudy says it too.
- Issues more proclamations as law, EOs, without Congress, double that of Obama and the most since LBJ. What did folks call Obama for his EOs?
- Has to have gold trappings festooned all over the White House. I remember Nixon and the gold epaulets on the White House guards. Little things that matter.
Putin Lovin Trump: look above to find Trump’s Russian lovin antics starting with changing YOUR platform to be kinder, gentler, more compassionate to Putin over the Ukraine and Crimea.
Let me see if I can sum it up in words you might better understand: Trump just looks democratic and not like a king to you “because you refuse to reflect on your own behavior, or the behavior of those in power.”
“That part should be obvious to everyone I should think. How else should people view the…” democratic (republican) party leadership when every day is just another round of throwing the kitchen sink at Trump (Hillary) when all they should have to do is point out the obvious stuff? In case you’ve forgotten, ive said on many occasions now that Trump (Hillary) is an idiot and provides plenty of reasons to go against him (her). But it’s not his (her) fault that “your side” is so party-blind that they have to continuously invent additional stuff to paint him (her) badly. It’s not needed and only serves to make them look like fools. And by regurgitating the latest dose of party doo doo you’ve chosen to join them on the playground. Cut that out and I’m sure things would be different.” Works for me :>)
I can see SD is STILL completely off the rails........
Repetition...yes keep repeating it....maybe people including yourself will believe it....
your posts do not even make sense anymore
So now with the first woman to accuse Kavanaugh we know that she listed 3 other people in the room with her.
All three including one woman (on of Dr Fords close friends) have been interviewed and all deny it happened. And the women witness says she never met Kavanaugh.
Wait how could that be? She was at a party with him according to the accusations.
No, now according to his family calendar, he was no where near there.
Now onto the second accuser.
She called around and asked friends if she was at a party prior to alleging the accusations.
No one remembered him.
Yet she plodded along with the story. But just as the New Yorker ran it, she has already walked back her accusation.
Then we get to all the people that actually know Brett Kavanaugh, and they all say the same, had he done any of these things, we would have heard, because...........that would have been out of character for him to behave that way.
Already 200 women that know Kavanaugh have come out in support of him......let that sink in
So when added up, what do we get???
A wild goose chase to derail a confirmation with no regard for a man's life.
Mommas dont let your sons grow up to be politicans or judges, because this is the new weapon and could happen to your little junior.
See they cant win elections of late, as their ideas have been proven to be failures.
So they turn to the courts to have judges that legislate from the bench in their favor.
But having an originalist judge ruins that outcome as well.
All they have, the left are false accusations.
Sad to see the party of JFK go so far down the tubes
"old-white-men-ask-sex-questions"
Actually, they have a female attorney who will be asking the questions.
Democrats complained about the "old white men asking questions" (although what does race have to do with it?) and then they also complain that a single female will be asking the questions. Can't have it (or not have it) both ways now... just more fodder to delay, delay, delay....
"there will be no witnesses"
EVERYBODY that Mrs. Ford herself has identified have claimed that they either have no specific recollection of the event(s) occurring as described and/or they didn't happen at all. The Republicans HAVE contacted those people who have provided written statements (which are subject to perjury penalties if the are lying to the Senate)... more than we can say for the Democrats.
Did SD really compare Kavanaugh to Clinton? Wow... You're right Darrin. Time for a straight jacket and a mental health eval for this guy...
Kavanaugh goes on Faux news to pitch his case??
What, was Al Jezzera booked?
And he’s purporting to be an INDEPENDENT arbitor of our nation’s most delicate legal cases?
Duh.
As they say detective circles- “ he’s blown his cover”.
B-bye frat boy.
Gee Clarence Thomas pitched his case. How'd that work out Stymie... You can be next on the mental health eval... You and SD are a match made in heaven...
SD - racist sexist much and agist? How many times will you slam “old white” men? You are such a hypocrite. It’s ok for you and those you agree with to use this language and terms but anyone else is a bigoted racist! By the way, how come no one is going after Keith Ellison who has beaten his girlfriend? Why aren’t you liberals and dems upset about that since you care sooo much about women?!
So does anyone have the 10-20 on Mrs. Ford? She should be hustling across the country by now.
"SD - racist sexist much and agist? How many times will you slam “old white” men?"
Hey SD, please correct me if I'm wrong... aren't YOU an "old white man"?
(of course I guess it would depend on the definition of "old"...)
"By the way, how come no one is going after Keith Ellison who has beaten his girlfriend? Why aren’t you liberals and dems upset about that since you care sooo much about women?!"
Exactly. When the dems put up or shut up with Ellison, no one is listening (except the pink pussy hat wearers, like SD lol)
Supposedly Ford did graduate work at the University of Hawaii. Did she take a boat there since she's so afraid of flying? Now the hearing on Thursday is in doubt. Fords lawyers keep complaining about details. If this isn't a stall tactic IDK what is....
If Ford doesn't show up thursday, she forfeits. The republicans have gone out of their way to accommodate her, the ball is in her court. If she's a no-show for ANY reason other than hospitalization, it's all a bunch a BS (which most of us suspect it is anyway). She forfeits. And I hope the republicans treat the situation that way. At this point, they've done everything they can to accommodate her, and I do not believe would suffer any negative repercussions in the midterms for moving on without her.
Of course, that may be EXACTLY what the democrats are/have been planning... some people question whether Ford was EVER meant to, or ever intended to, testify.... if she does, she can't be used as a weapon anymore; "The evil republicans won't let her tell her story! They are anti-woman! Protecting an attempted-rapist!"
If they can get the numbers to nominate him and she doesn't show, then time to vote. Sorry but if she were credible there wouldn't be excuse after excuse about the hearing.
“it's pretty obvious that you just don't like me.”
Not at all. You’re obviously very intelligent and well read and there’s a lot to like...if we could ever get past that delivery method of yours ;-)
Do I think you’re a partisan “hack”? Based only on your posts, yes I do.
Do I disagree with the one and only solution you ever present to deal with our problems - using the government and the power it yields to force the outcome *you* want? Absolutely.
Unlike you I happen to think people are generally the same albeit with different backgrounds and perspectives on life. It’s the natural state of things and isn’t something to be controlled by force. Allow the differences, but prevent everyone from doing the exact thing you always want to do: forcing others to bend to their will.
Anyway, this thread has gotten even more ridiculous than ever. Please please please take my advise and take a break! You’re going to have a coronary and at the end of the day nothing will have changed.
Meanwhile Trump spoke to the UN and said we'd only give aid to countries who are our friends and allies and would no longer be footing the bill for 25% of the UN budget. There's some of your spending cuts right there. Not sure what that amounts to, but certainly has to be many billions. This is one of the reasons we're so far in debt. We just mindlessly send money off to foreign institutions.
BTW, what happened to "Russia collusion"? Did the FBI/DOJ ever release the unredacted emails as instructed by the president?
(both rhetorical questions, of course LOL)
In the Cozby trial, wasn’t his questioner an inexperienced prosecutor; a black man without a legal degree? Comforting indeed.
"Not at all." Well JIT, like you say, I guess it must be true that I should feel the love......unless I take umbrage at "it's just the delivery," or the "partisan" hack comment or, your saying I have a sole reliance on forced outcomes (we call it rule of law and The Constitution, but hey, delivery....partisan....) whatever. Yeah, beyond those duplicative comments, I am still working on ignoring your God-like generic judgements that some have mastered to lord moralistic superiority over others. You must be right though and I can feel the love when you say "Unlike you I happen to think...…" "You’re going to have a coronary and at the end of the day..... All I can add to your fair compliments and good tidings is "Because he ain't heavy, he's my brother....."
Well, we should be hearing from the third Brett Kavanaugh victim soon, this one from the Treasury Department, ala Michael Avenatti. She is allegedly both a Kavanaugh victim and a witness; a double play for Avenatti who is also placing Stormy Daniels at risk by picking up this high profile client. So pretty important on many fronts that he gets this one right. Kavanaugh victim number 3 claims to have a tale of targeting different women for "pulling the train" gang rapes.
Avenatti's tweet on Brett's FOX interview: "Brett Kavanaugh is a liar." That's pretty blunt.
Meanwhile..... I do apologize for the "tighty whitey, old white men" "racist" comments even if they are as true a set of facts as is Grassley parting the sea with Moses. Orin rows another boat however :>) I heartily apologize to the women of the JC who apparently I ignored in my listening to MSM on this. The JC is more than just tighty whitey old men. I was wrong in that and I apologize.
Turns out there are: 22 members of the JC, half n half party wise. Using the 115th Congress, sans Al Franken for, of all things, sexual abuse (ironic, ain't it), 11 are Republicans, all of the Caucasian race, with the average age of 62. The average age of our current Senate is 62 so, age wise, that's not too bad. Diversity wise, it just sucks. It is a bunch of old white men who LEAD this committer. That’s not racism, that’s just a fact. Given the lack of investigation, witnesses, and such -- I'd say tighty is spot on too.
However..... however, if you add in the Democrats, you get some diversity, You get 4, count em 4 women, one whom is African American and, of course, Spartacus. But with diversity, comes age because with the Democrats, the average age rises to 64 now….
So, the Judiciary Committee is old, no matter how you look at it. It is totally white, in terms of the leading party, and pretty much white in its entirety. Diversity wise, the JC is 9% Black against a 6% Senate and a 13% America – so halfway there, but better than the Senate. Bravo! However, the JC is very male, no matter how you look at it. For women on the JC, it’s just 18% against a 46% Senate and a 51% America --- you gots a long way to go Baby. Especially since if Franken hadn't resigned, you would be at a 14% level which is shameful against the Senate's or America's demographics.
I do apologize for the crass comments. But "bigoted racist?" As much as I would love the redundancy of those two words conjoined, I don't think so. The Judiciary Committee, on the facts, is not very diverse, it is very white, pretty damned old, and gender-wise, age-wise --- total lack of diversity and totally unbalanced. Thank goodness for Spartacus.
For the ruling party, they have no balance at all when it comes to the JC.
It shows.
If you disregard the 110-year old Grassley and Feinstein, I'm sure that average age comes down quite a bit...
Haha... Avenatti has to find some other BS to hitch his wagon to (to stay in the headlines) since his defamation case with Stormy Daniels is about to get tossed out.
"Avenatti's tweet on Brett's FOX interview: "Brett Kavanaugh is a liar." That's pretty blunt."
Don't put too much stock in Avenatti's "witness"... he got PUNKED
https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2018/09/25/holy-wow-if-this-is-true-wait-is-this-why-michael-avenatti-locked-his-twitter-account/
(just one link of MANY on this story...)
So let me get this straight.....Ford said there was how many people in the room when she was restrained and feared that she would be raped? And they all did nothing.....there is so many holes in this story it is just plain stupid. Just democrats fighting for straws....
Saw a report that says Dr. Ford recovered this memory during a therapy session. Both sides get the benefit of doubt in my book, but this story seems to get sketchier by the day. We need to hear her full story to make a fair decision.
I think a fair and balanced investigation is all Dr. Ford is looking for. This Congress is not a fair and balanced investigatory institution. At least this one.
GH -- "he New York Post is a daily tabloid type newspaper from New York City. This source can swing very far to the right, but does occasionally provide a balanced account. The New York Post typically uses very sensational headlines such as: It’s time for Bill Clinton to take a walk in the Chappaqua woods. They also have a questionable record with fact checkers. The New York Post is not a very credible news source." https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/new-york-post/
Darrin: two guys toss her is a locked room, Kavanaugh attempting rape, the other, Judge, a blackout king that is a 53 year old career drinker who looks 70..... she says she escaped when Judge jumped on Kavanaugh.
WAS -- I don't think she "recovered" this memory in therapy. I believe she recounted it. At least that's what I saw in the stories I read.
Of course, without witnesses in Congress, our conclusions post Thursday will probably be the same but tempered by their demeanor during testimony.
Avenatti will undoubtedly throw a few wooden shoes into those gears starting this afternoon. Contrary to JR's alt-right fake news that he loves to spew as fact with his proof positive being "(just one link of MANY on this story...)" JR --- each story is "linked" to the original 4Chan post just like most of these fake alt-right stories. There is only ONE source for this story --- 4Chan. I thought you claimed "free thinking" and "open thinking" creds. You should try legitimacy and second sourcing.
As of this moment, Avenatti is still on to unveil this evening.
Meanwhile --- did anyone catch Don's stand-up routine at the UN? From South China Post: https://www.scmp.com/news/world/united-states-canada/article/2165746/laughing-trump-here-are-7-other-jaw-dropping-un
OK --- he's better than Bush!
SD I don't think you honestly believe any of this BS. You're just loving it because a conservative pick is being blocked. Who are you trying to kid...
"You're just loving it because a conservative pick is being blocked. "
Not for long...
+1 Metsman, you are spot on correct
It's a 1600s style witch hunt. All they need is for a woman to point the finger and all due process flys out the window. No need to face your accuser, no need for corroborating evidence, non need for anything else. Just raise the finger, point it at a man, and then the towns people can burn him at the stake.
The Dems have been doing this for decades to Republican court nominees and its past time they be called out for it.
Partisan hacks gave Bill Clinton a complete pass on this. The very same partisan hacks are currently giving Keith Ellison a complete pass on this. Different standards are being applied based on which party the accused belongs to.
Ya' all know deep down that this is just wrong but not all of you are honest enough to admit it.
Actually, it does not matter what I believe as to these particular allegations. What I do have a passion for is the process of addressing such allegations. This Congress is not following their own process. Old Grassley is not following young Grassley's process.
No witnesses.
No FBI investigation into the charges and the witnesses.
And now the chicken-senator "accusers" of the accuser are bringing in a photo-op ringer to front for them in the interrogation, sorry, I mean interview.
So yeah, I don't believe any of this bs. But I am looking at Congress, you are looking at the alleged victim.
Poor Kav,
So are the allegations true or not? Who knows, women lie just as much as men do.
The courts have never gone far to protect ordinary men from women who lie, nor have they even attempted to convict them for perjury. She will walk either way.
He is now tainted-it's over for him.
NK- Trump was never going to get the nukes from him-he played Trump like a fiddle. Those tests will provide NK scientists with plenty of data to perfect what is an already working system. The hard work is done. NK is successful, they have the real deal, have tested it, have built it, and it does work. No putting that genie back in the bottle.
Didn't the FBI already say they didn't want any part of this? Even so, the woman has yet to publicly speak her side of the story. How about she gets that over with then it can be decided if an FBI investigation is warranted...
Those “thuds” you’re hearing is the sanctity and respect for the Supreme Court bouncing off your basement floor.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/09/26/vintage-biden-clip-on-fbi-fuels-gop-pushback-on-kavanaugh-probe.html
All you have to do is listen to Joe Biden in 1991.
Here is Joe Biden regarding the FBI during Clarence Thomas hearings.
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2018/09/25/enjoy-this-clip-of-joe-biden-telling-clarence-thomas-that-an-fbi-report-isnt-worth-anything/
"Those “thuds” you’re hearing is the sanctity and respect for the Supreme Court bouncing off your basement floor."
Too late. RBG did that long ago.
And no one cares that real victims of sexual assault and abuse will suffer because of this. Even those supposed pro-feminism namby pamby types like SD. That’s the real tragedy.
Women who make these allegations are TO BE BELIEVED.
Except for Paula Jones.
And Kathleen Willey.
And Juanita Broderick.
And Leslie Milwee.
And Keith Ellison’s ex-girlfriend Karen Monahan.
Hmm... see a pattern? (hint: all those accused of assault are DEMOCRATS.)
Or Crystal Gail Mangum (Duke Lacrosse accuser).
How about 5 years in prison based on a LIE?
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/wrongfully-imprisoned-banks-career-nfl-article-1.2090727
I think it's his lies about the excessive degree of his alcohol consumption that will sink him in the end. Moderate drinkers in their early 50s don't typically have gin blossoms all over their face. Plus, there might not be many people who saw him grope anyone, but apparently lots have seen him falling down drunk...
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/kavanaugh-yale-roommate-drunk_us_5baa0c62e4b0375f8fa04108
"Didn't the FBI already say they didn't want any part of this?" No. Even if they did, the FBI has no say. It's up to Congress via the Whitehouse or the Whitehouse to authorize the investigation just like they did for Anita Hill through Grassley..... They own that process.
" Even so, the woman has yet to publicly speak her side of the story. How about she gets that over with then it can be decided if an FBI investigation is warranted..." Really..... so that's fair and balanced as a part of due process. Public oratory of the events? Do we use the pillory for it. "Hey you, affected by a crime, can you tell us?" Skip the police, you must twitter first..... Oye.
Nice fake stats fake news Mark.
But the QOD (quote of the day), so far --- goes to Suze: "And no one cares that real victims of sexual assault and abuse will suffer because of this. Even those supposed pro-feminism namby pamby types like SD. That’s the real tragedy." Now we gots some real name calling going on. "Stone cold sober as a matter of fact." Oh yeah, she's back. The day someone calls me "namby pamby" will be a rare day indeed with this quote from a rare breed indeed.
Actually Suze, I do care about the effects of failure on other victims if Dr. Ford is not believed. It's a risk/reward world in that if she does succeed, then maybe others will attempt to fight the Suze's, Met's, JR's, and others not willing to grant a fair and balanced investigation of charges.
Sixteen states have no statute of limitations on rape ----- take em to the mat there.
Iman --- nothing worse than the roommate scorned. Getting back for all those sleep-disturbed nights as Brett-the-drunk stumbled in, totally frustrated at getting no sex once again.
ianimal and the article says the roommate is good friends with the accuser. So I'll take his word with a grain of salt. Perhaps he didn't like Kavanaugh... If it were a neutral source I'd find it more credible.
"but apparently lots have seen him falling down drunk..."
Falling down drunk in the PAST is better than falling asleep in the present (RBG) lol
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/09/26/avenatti-releases-graphic-kavanaugh-allegations-calls-for-new-delay.html
Ok so lets say these allegations are true... NONE of these women filed a police report after being raped!? I mean cmon... If this stuff is true then its criminal... Why would anyone let this slide if it indeed happened?! And if it didn't happen, what kind of scum are these people to try and ruin a man's life and his family's because they're paranoid over Roe vs Wade being overturned... You know what... wear protection when you have sex... It's not hard to avoid pregnancy...
"And no one cares that real victims of sexual assault and abuse will suffer because of this. Even those supposed pro-feminism namby pamby types like SD. That’s the real tragedy.
Just something to think about from another column, a different perspective:
"The prospect of a professional death penalty for any long-forgotten episode from a bygone era will fundamentally change how men and women interact, and I cannot see women coming out ahead here.”
I seriously considered, even before my divorce was on the horizon, what benefit there was to dealing with females in any LT relationship. Professional and even familial.
Personally, there is nothing a female can provide me long term through marriage that I can’t source cheaper on as needed basis.
And that is true without even accounting for a probability weighted risk of asset and income impairment in the event of divorce.
Household maintenance, adolescent educational support, meals, sex. The only item is the actual birthing of children for which I only need a uterus for 40 weeks. Find one to rent. I fully anticipate that to happen in the not too distance future.
Professionally, women complain about the gender gap. Easiest way to close that is through mentoring and building strong relationships, and that means time together. I used to travel with junior female colleagues all the time. Grabbing dinner then drinks at the bar the night before a meeting in the hotel out of town was standard fare. What sane male these days would even consider that? He11, I wouldn’t even share a rental car with a professional female colleague now.
These movements have made females toxic to any male with half a brain and anything to lose (ie, any male of interest personally or professionally to a female). Males will interact with females the least amount required on purely a transactional basis, professionally and personally. Females have dehumanized themselves. They are not colleagues or partners any more, just risks that males need to manage.
Makes me feel badly for the white bread, whole milk little girl next door whose future lifestyle is getting undercut by the puzzy hat crazies and their cohorts. Not that the crazies care."
As far as I am concerned victims deserve justice and the guilty deserve fitting punishment.
I just don’t see it on a partisan basis - unlike some.
Am I reading this right?
Mrs. Ford's polygraph test consisted of only *2* questions?
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/kavanaugh-christine-blasey-ford_us_5babcac1e4b0353bd2d0489b
Also, how did she get from CA to MD and back in August? I'd be curious to see her fuel receipts since she had to drive, right?
Just a coincidence that the Hilton Hotel where the polygraph was administered is literally right next door to a major airport...
Oh yea... lets go off a polygraph with 2 questions asked. LOL...
Bet you if they subpoena her bank and credit card records, they will show purchased airplane tickets...
"I just don’t see it on a partisan basis - unlike some."
I agree. However, the train has left the station and will not be returning. The die has been cast.
"Ok so lets say these allegations are true... NONE of these women filed a police report after being raped!? I mean cmon... If this stuff is true then its criminal... Why would anyone let this slide if it indeed happened?!"
"And I would expect my daughters to come to me or the police if something happened to them. Your claims about my views are ridiculous... No one is going to belittle a woman who files a police report. "
Mets, I honestly hope to God that none of your children: boys or girls, are ever sexually harassed, or even worse, sexually assaulted. Despite your claims to the contrary, your daughters might very well NOT come to you with the news that they'd been assaulted/raped.
Why? They're embarrassed, they've been threatened, they (wrongly) feel somehow responsible for what happened, they're afraid of getting a "reputation" for being easy, they're traumatized, they're afraid you'll be disappointed in them, and more.
There are myriad reasons why someone won't talk about what happened, particularly back when these allegations took place. In today's "me too" culture, women might feel more comfortable about coming forward. Back then-it was a whole different story.
The pain that a parent feels when their daughter has been assaulted or raped is so deep, visceral, agonizing, debilitating, that girls might not want to put their parents through that. How do I know? Because I have daughters who were victimized by sexual assaults-through NO fault, or leading on, or encouraging of their own. In these cases, they did tell us, and I can tell you that it still brings me to tears and sometimes to my knees to think about what they were feeling and experiencing as it was happening.
Please don't be so glib about a woman who finally has found her voice to talk about what happened to her, and how she felt at the time. And comments like the ones I'm reading are EXACTLY why many women don't come forward, even to their parents or the police. The things I'm reading here send a very strong message that they won't be believed, even by their parents.
And can anyone, anyone, anyone tell me what they think these women had to gain by coming forward with their stories? They could have remained silent, and their lives would have gone on as they were in July of this year. Now~not so much.
Summerrain1 the problem is there are holes in Ford’s story. She doesn’t remember when and where the incident happened. There’s no evidence it took place. Female classmates of Kavanaugh have come on TV saying these kinds of things didn’t happen. No one around from back then is backing her story.
Now you have a woman Julie Swetnick saying Kavanaugh was part of gang rapes at at least 10 parties she was at, yet she didn’t report it and no one has heard anything about this in over 30 years. Also she was in college going to high school parties? She was in her early 20’s letting kids rape her? What.... It is impossible for this to be kept a secret for so long. It’s not believable. What’s next, he was a pimp running a prostitution ring...
Let's also be careful with "guilty until proven innocent." America is not Russia or the Islamic middle east (or even the UK where you can be imprisoned for WORDS.) It's NOT #MeToo,MustBeTrue (as illustrated above in this thread.)
IDK how old summerrain1 is, or any of you other democrats/liberals who believe this woman it's 3 women now), unsubstantiated, but did you also believe
Paula Jones, Kathleen Willey, Juanita Broderick or Leslie Milwee- the 4 women who accused Bill Clinton of sexual assault, and in 1 case, RAPE? Not attempted rape- RAPE.
I assume you DID believe them, and thought Bill Clinton should withdraw from running for President. Right? Or, were they just "bimbos" who, like James Carville said at the time "Drag a hundred-dollar bill through a trailer park, you never know what you'll find."
I'm sure you also no doubt believed Crystal Gail Mangum (the Duke Lacrosse accuser), because "accusers don't lie", right? "We believe survivors!".... how'd that one play out?
In any event.... a new wrinkle this morning.....
"Two men have told Senate Judiciary Committee staffers that they believe they — not Judge Brett Kavanaugh — had the sexual encounter with Christine Blasey Ford which is the basis of her sexual assault allegation against the Supreme Court nominee."
"Documents released by majority members of the Senate Judiciary Committee on Wednesday evening threw a new wrinkle into the accusations against Kavanaugh, the night before he and Ford are scheduled to testify about the situation."
https://www.theblaze.com/news/2018/09/27/senate-staff-talked-to-men-who-believe-they-not-kavanaugh-had-1982-encounter-with-ford-docs-show
The democrats are saying "it's not fair to release this information so close to Dr. Ford's testimony".... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Seriously?
I will say this... while I HATE politics now, the BS, the lies, the subterfuge, the character assassination, the game-playing.... it does make for an interesting chess game... every day it's "like a box of chocolates- you never know what you're gonna' get."
The plot sickens...….
Well, if this is game over, where's the fireworks? Why have the testimony? Just bring on the police for game over...…
Two guys, independently, admit doing it. Still need to determine if they did it together, alone, same place, time, etc. but they do have a statement from one of them.
Really makes you wish for a real investigation, right? I mean....when I went up against committee staffers, ITC in my case, what a joke. They were kids getting their Masters on the government dime and waiting to graduate into the real world of business.....Nice kids, smart kids, they had me cold on the facts, but they asked the wrong questions so I told the truth to their questions and skipped out of there without having to divulge the bad stuff. Piece of cake, not sure why I missed all that sleep :>)
Too bad they can't do this the right way, a fair and balanced way. Does make for better kabuki theater though. So who will gain the midterm advantage from this: Team Spartacus or that new band: Old White Men.....?? Hiding behind the skirt might not have been the best move.....
crazy idea, but how about these allegations get vetted as they should be and, if he’s convicted, the judge is removed from the scotus?
Surely there’s a way to remove a sitting judge?
Yes, you impeach them, just like the president:
The term "good behavior" is understood to mean justices may serve for the remainder of their lives, unless they are impeached and convicted by Congress, resign, or retire. Only one justice has been impeached by the House of Representatives (Samuel Chase, March 1804), but he was acquitted in the Senate (March 1805).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supreme_Court_of_the_United_States
Just hold, investigate, and move on...… Anita Hill investigation took four days. If Grassley didn't have his head up his Grassley he would be done by now....
Meanwhile...…...one thing I don't understand is why Ford et al haven't filed charges. I mean if they really were Democratic operatives, why not just file charges. That would stop the hearings dead.
Given all the airplay, I wouldn't be surprised if Montgomery County doesn't file their own charges. Especially against the two confessing men.
Just weird all around.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/interactive/2018/09/27/christine-fords-prepared-testimony.html
Here is Ford's statement. Funny she remembers vivid details that night but can't remember whose house she was at and even an approximate date this happened... How convenient...
Not that funny for me. I have had many nights like that.
Losing my car in Georgetown for example. Want to bet I couldn't find that house again in a million years......
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/09/27/bill-clinton-rape-accuser-juanita-broaddrick-slams-dems-for-biggest-double-standard-on-kavanaugh.html
Straight from a victim that guys like Crying Chuck Schumer ignored.
Had a discussion on Facebook. It's really insane how many people want to rip up our constitution because there was slavery and women didn't help write it back then. We are heading down a path to Socialism and its really alarming.
You are right. Terrible double standard. Awful
Does that mean you are saying that since we failed on Broderick, then we should avoid investigating anything similar against conservatives in Metman's world o justice.
Gee, for someone asking us to take their word on 36 year old memories she can't even recall things from a month ago...
Whose idea was it to take a polygraph? Mucho lawyer objections to this question...
Did you (Ford) pay for the polygraph? No
Who did? I don't know...
Who selected the polygrapher? I don't know...
Was it audio recorded? I don't know...
Was it video recorded? I don't know....
Also, the polygraph was taken the day of/after her grandmother's funeral. I'm sure there are recommendations that polygraphs aren't administered so near to other emotionally trying events.
For someone afraid to fly she's flown an awful lot...
Flew to the "mid-Atlantic" region recently (Delaware)...
Then flew from BWI to New Hampshire.... assuming from there back to CA.
Has flown to Hawaii, Costa Rica, and other pacific islands for surfing...
Flew to this hearing...
I guess the driving excuse was just to delay things.
Stated that she would have preferred to have the hearing/interview done in California. Grassley offered to do that a week (or more) ago. Just more delay tactics?
“Just hold, investigate, and move on...”
Why, if not for political reasons?
Move on *and* investigate. Why not allow the investigation to continue knowing that a sexual assault charge can be used to undo his nomination? After all, these are unsubstantiated accusations at this point (the whole reason for wanting an investigation). I can’t see why the very systems of government already in place can not be used here.
As I said earlier, this is 100% political character assasination at this point. If proven true then we already have ways of dealing with him.
But that’s later and people want a conviction today. For political reasons. Very very sad state of affairs.
"this is 100% political character assasination at this point."
why yes it is, and th Dems excel at this, it's their SOP and they've been doing this for 40 years hat i can recall.
This is standard stuff from their dirty tricks playbook.
We should hear her out, hold the vote tomorrow and have the full senate confirm him on Monday.
Btw, I can’t believe this hearing is being shown on tv. Can you get any closer to a real “court of public opinion” than this?
Preventing sway-by-emotion justice is the whole point we have a legal system, the whole reason for the separation of powers in government.
This entire nomination process, and in fact the ways that we all interact socially, are so diametrically opposed to the way our government is supposed to operate that I continue to be amazed that so many people are ok with this. Craziness all around!!!
VOTE THEM ALL OUT!
So basically, this hearing was called to "hear from the victim", right?
Why are the Democrats spending 95% of their time just bloviating on generalities of their own opinions instead of actually asking her questions? They can do that on their own time.
Seems like the Republicans are the only ones "investigating" here (while the Democrats bitch and moan about them actually asking questions of Mrs. Ford).
Maybe the more questions she answers with "I don't know" or "I don't remember" isn't making such a great case here...
She also whips out detailed explanations of the biological processes where memories are imprinted into her hippocampus, but is easily confused by the simple question "did anyone speak on your behalf" to Congress/Senate in the past few weeks.
Also, I'm sure Rachel Mitchell's resume on dealing with victims of sexual abuse is MUCH longer than Senator Hirono's (who tried to talk down to Mitchell's involvement in the questioning).
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/09/27/kavanaugh-accusers-fear-flying-comes-under-scrutiny-at-hearing.html
She has a fear of flying but yet flies all over the place... LMAO... What a circus...
She says she’s afraid to fly but then she also went to the university of Hawaii.
She said there was a group of people, then she said there was just two.
She then said a guy named Leland was at the party and then she said he wasn’t.
She contradicts her own doctor whose records say she claimed 4 people were at the event, but she now claims there was only two and that her doctor was “confused.”
She then said there was a conversation between her rapists but then she said she just assumed it happened and there was no proof.
She then said she tried to say hello to one of her rapists, even though this was allegedly such a traumatic event for her.
She doesn’t remember how she got to the party and she doesn’t remember how she got home.
First she says she only discussed this with her husband, but then she says she was talking about it with people on the beach.
She says she was given a polygraph, on the day of her grandmother’s funeral, which is a very emotional event and the last time you’d want to take a poly.
She states she was surprised at how long the polygraph test took, but then she says they only asked her a few questions.
She claims she doesn’t know who paid for the polygraph test. She says she doesn’t remember if the polygraph was captured on video or recorded, even though this is standard procedure.
These are the lies of Dr. Ford that Mitchell elucidated for us today:
1. I have a fear of flying
2. I chose my lawyers
3. This alleged assault is the only thing contributing to my PTSD
4. I did not give my therapist medical record to anyone
5. The people in living room couldn't hear me scream but I could hear them conversing
6. The Senate would not come to me
Wow
Good old Corey Booker got her a cup of coffee when she finished. Great photo op for when he runs for President.
Yeah, I think he channeling McCain. I have always loved that little Southern bomber. Or Sessions2 as he is auditioning for his new job. While I don’t love his conclusion, his story is pretty spot on. But then again, Grassley could have taken all this off-line. Bogus process.
He said, she said, somebody’s lying. Somebody should be punished from this.
Where’s the elephant on the room? Where’s the third man?
Why so afraid of fbi investigation? Took 4 days for Anita Hill.
Anita HI’ll Was a federal employee alleging that another federal employee committed a crime against her on federal property. That’s in the FBI’s jurisdiction.
Very simple question here. How come *none* of the accusers have brought forth any criminal complaints Where these crimes were alleged to have occurred?
2018- The current FBI wouldn't know how to investigate an empty paper bag. It would take them years. Nothing but a laughable joke.
Waiting to see SD's head explode when Kavanaugh is confirmed. Someone film it please. LOL...
“Very simple question here. How come *none* of the accusers have brought forth any criminal complaints Where these crimes were alleged to have occurred?”
Probably didn’t have any time to actually file, although if any had it would have supported their positions better.
Perhaps this article will help some understand - https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/09/copaken-kavanaugh/571042/?utm_source=fbb
“Probably didn’t have any time to actually file”
Blasey-Ford has been lawyered up for weeks, if not months.
Does a phone call to Chevy Chase PD really take that long?
The “prosecutor” also had a good point (being very familiar with sex crimes investigations). Why was the first recommendation to Ford to take a polygraph and not a forensic interview by someone specifically trained to get initial statements/memories from victims documented properly?
That’s fine and all 4catmom, but undeniably the reason for bringing it up now is what? That’s all that many are saying.
File the charges to be taken seriously, and allow the legal system to work. Not a single person would be negative about that. But making it political degrades all of that and turns it into. circus.
"That’s fine and all 4catmom, but undeniably the reason for bringing it up now is what?" If true, to keep a complete scumbag from being appointed to the highest court in the land?
Judge Kavanaugh’s paranoid partisan rant fully exhibits that he is incapable of serving the court impartiality and fairly.
{out}
"complete scumbag"
Which would be fine, were there any actual evidence. Even someone to corroborate her story. Even ONE friend who remembers "yeah she told me about this when it happened." Or a police report. ANYTHING. She's got nothing but her word. Nothing. Except the DNC and MSM "got her back", based on... nothing. Based on the hope they could destroy his character enough to get a few more democrat votes in the midterms... this has much less to do with SCOTUS than with the midterms.
“If true”
Well, the easy way to do that is present actual evidence, especially corroboration from HER friend, that she specifically said was at the same party. This friend who then said (under penalty of perjury) that she was NEVER at a party with Kavanaugh.
I really do think “something” happened to Ford. Either that, or some very good coaching to still, at 50 some years old, speak like a meek little teenager. This person with several degrees can pull words of the day (like norepinephrine, hippocampus, and sequelae) into casual conversation, but then gets seemingly very confused when asked simple questions (by a woman with a very calm, even, patient voice).
Be sympathetic all you want... it doesn’t implicate Kavanaugh AT ALL except on her word alone.
“If true”
Russia anyone? Besides, were you a witness 35 years ago? If not how can you jump to any conclusion whatsoever? The way we find out isn’t with a public show in our modern version of a coliseum, is it?
File the charges, go through the legal system, then punish him if found guilty. Is that not how our society works? Of course, but it’s only in the political arena that the rules the rest of us play by go out the window.
So, if your daughter got raped and it was her word against her attacker... that would be your position? Let him go?
One thing I took from today is that if this guy is this unhinged when sober... I'd hate to see him drunk.
Ms. Ford and Mr. Kavanough have both been used by our elected official ( dem & republican) for purely political purposes. Our elected officials are all a bunch of snakes that should be voted out of office. They are surely in a world of there own.
Indy “that would be your position? Let him go?”
Not if I had omniscient powers and knew it to be “true”, but that would likely be the justice system’s position in the absence of all other evidence.
(You’ll note that Blasey’s father only reluctantly offered a luke warm statement along the lines of “I love my daughter and she has a great resume”.)
Ianimal look at it from a son POV. Would you want your son convicted on no evidence?
"So, if your daughter got raped"
This was not rape.
So now Ford is the DNC's daughter? That explains everything.
I admit that it all comes down to credibility. Kavanaugh lost that when he lied and said that he's never been blackout drunk. There ain't a DKE on the planet who can say that with a straight face.
“So, if your daughter got raped and it was her word against her attacker... that would be your position? Let him go? ”
I’m surprised at your thought process Ian. If it was *my* daughter I would fight like hell to punish him, yet funny enough a peon like me would still have to go through the justice system. It would take time regardless of what I wanted. What your saying, though, is that for expediency sake I should make my own justice.
So I agree that what you’re saying is true, that’s precisely why these allegations were brought forth now, to harm someone without having to use the legal system. And gee whiz it just so happens that the Licrats can use the allegations to their advantage for political gain. How very convenient.
""So, if your daughter got raped" This was not rape."
Agreed that the allegation was not rape, but the standard of proof is the same, so the question remains valid. If you are so glib about the standard of proof for a girl who's been violated, I'm sure you would leave your guns locked up and swallow your pride as he smiles at you on his way out of the court room to his ski holiday in the Alps, right? That's your world, not mine. He'd never make it to the plane. But then, you dont have a daughter, do you?
As a victim of sexual assault, I have to say, this situation absolutely sickens me. I feel like this has become a sport for the public to consume and the politicians to use to their advantage. Shame on all involved. It didn't have to come to this.
And Ford has credibility? How's that? Her story has changed since this thing has gone on, and the ONE friend she produced to corroborate instead REFUTED her account.
It's right back to he said she said. Which means the whole thing is a wash, and the senate will vote along party lines, if he's confirmed it'll likely be by the "nuclear option", which incidentally was a democrat rule change.
As I've said- if you think this was mainly about SCOTUS, you're naive. It WAS about denying Trump another court pick, regardless of who it was. Had it been Amy Coney Barrett, the democrats would have produced someone who claimed they saw her performing a satanic ritual or sacrificing a baby calf LOL.
If they could stop the appointment, that's gravy. This was a play for the midterms. They want the house, so they can start impeachment proceedings. Altho they'd have to get the senate TOO in order for it to actually go anywhere.
Goal #1: deny Trump another SCOTUS pick, because we hate that guy
Goal #2: take back the House in the midterms (and the senate, if possible)
Gaol #3: impeach Trump (which would likely fail, but would help them with their base in 2020)
So all it takes is for you to get mad to justify and dispense you’re own justice Ian. Alrighty then...
No, your lack of critical thought is showing. There is NEVER a way for a girl to PROVE rape. Its ALWAYS he said, she said... unless the attacker is black, then there doesnt seem to be that much of a problem for her to be believed.
"Had it been Amy Coney Barrett, the democrats would have produced someone who claimed they saw her performing a satanic ritual or sacrificing a baby calf LOL."
The cover of Kavanaugh's calendar DID have half a dozen pentagrams on it... he and Amy were probably in the same cult, lol.
“No, your lack of critical thought is showing.“
Like blindly believing what you heard on the news without any investigative proof whatsoever? You consider that critical thinking??
Look, here’s the deal: it doesn’t matter what anyone *thinks*. It only matters what one can prove. It sucks sometimes, sure. And you’re right about rape allegations being difficult to prove. But consider if we used the ianimal method of justice; no more courts, no more lawyers (not a bad thing :-)), just pick what you believe, whose “side” you’re on, and dispense justice. I think we had that once, in a time called the dark ages wasn’t it?
"Ianimal look at it from a son POV. Would you want your son convicted on no evidence"
Who's on trial? Nobody.
But... I certainly will use this as a teaching moment in the future that no matter how young you are, acting like a scumbag can always come back to bite you in the ass.
Maybe she liked Brett and he ignored her and her memory was distorted to the point where he was the wrongdoer not just the ignorer? Believe me, I have seen this before. I am not saying that rape in high school and college does not occur, it does, but not every case is.
Looking at news stories this morning...
Kavanaugh's chances of confirmation dropped after Ford's testimony.
Kavanaugh's chances of confirmation rose dramatically after his testimony.
But then, predictions and polls have been wrong before... VERY wrong, lol President Trump.
If this wasn't the democrat's "October Surprise", I wonder what they have up their sleeve for the next 4 weeks before the midterms....
"But... I certainly will use this as a teaching moment in the future that no matter how young you are, acting like a scumbag can always come back to bite you in the ass."
I think it's more accurate to say "being accused of being a scumbag, whether you did it or not, can always show up to bite you in the ass, especially when there's political motivation behind it."
So really, there's no defense in this #MeToo world, this
#The OppositePolitcalPartyMustBeStoppedAtAllCosts world, this #ItsOkToDestroySomeoneForThePercievedGreaterGood world.
Very dangerous ground we are on now. Soon, you'll be imprisoned for hate speech, like in the UK. You'll be guilty until proven innocent. You'll be tried by public opinion instead of by a jury. We've come a long way, baby.
Confirmation schedule (assuming the dems don't pull anyone else out of the woodwork)
Fri - committee vote
Sat - motion to procede on senate floor, file cloture
Mon - Cloture vote
Tue - final vote
Kavanaugh on court by wednesday (if confirmed)
He will b confirmed on tuesday with several Democratic senators voting for him,
Wonder what the betting line in vegas is on this one, anyhow , we'll see, I'm gonna go out on a limb and predict 54 to 46 in favor of confirmation on tuesday
What's your best guess?
Last weeks FISA documents release is this weeks Kavanaugh is next weeks Trumpian reality tv drama.
Not as bad as Anita Hill, but low day even for Congress as Dems delay, Lindsey politics for next job as Attorney General, Spartacus tries looking Presidential, amd Grassley keeps his head up his Grassley.
What was that process? Only girls can ask girls questions, the boys hide behind the skirt, but when questioning the prospective sex offender, a guy, we sit the professional sex offender girly prosecutor down and let the boys come out and play? That was their idea of fair and balanced?
We don’t need no stinking witnesses; we have a lawyerly-constructed statement. We don’t need no FBI investigation, we got he said, she said. We got staffers to investigate, well, a few less now that we tossed the sex offenders on staff. It’s the Democrats, it’s the press, it’s the Clintons —- yeah, he really blamed the Clintons. Its a strangerdanger indeed when we forget fair play, civility, and decorum. Can’t wait till he takes his revenge from the bench. Fun times.
What a spectacle -- great theater manufactured by the Democrats. If they had any interest in the truth, that would not have sat on the accusation for weeks.
I have no doubt something happened to Dr. Ford. But, no one could fairly conclude Judge Kavanaugh is the person who did it, based on yesterday's testimony.
What a circus, and God help the next person that goes through the process!
"great theater manufactured by the Democrats. If they had any interest in the truth, that would not have sat on the accusation for weeks. "
I think these are the 2 "hinge pins" it rests on, combined with no evidence or corroborating witnesses.
No evidence/corroborating witnesses
Political theatre
Holding the letter for weeks to spring it at the last minute = obviously a politically-motivated move, not a truth- or justice-seeking move.
Bt there's still days to go before the final vote; would not surprise me in the least if another "victim" magically appears and accuses him of... jeez, what's left? Pedophilia? Human trafficking? Murder? (oh no wait, that was Ted Kennedy)
I don't think witnesses were allowed, were they? Just statements constructed by lawyers were there I think, weren't they? Then they pulled the special sex crimes prosecutor just before their special sex offender took the chair. Wasn't that a bit weird?
Political theater? I believe conservatives ruled the day on that one: nicely done.
Holding the letter ---- yeah, hoping for a miracle and trying to protect anonymity and....of course, delay. According to Feinstein "“Yes, I did receive a letter from Dr. Ford,” Feinstein, the California Democrat, said. “I held it confidential, up to a point where the witness was willing to come forward.” So take her word for what it is. But we did learn about delay and dirty tricks from the experts ---- remember the over 365 delay days of Garland.
Point is we can't prove who the liar is. We don't apparently care. And there is a liar here. But Congress will look no further; they HAD reached their conclusion without an FBI background check into the allegations. You have taught us well Obi Wan.
But the real mystery here is how did JR hit the trifecta with three posts in a row? Time to play the lottery JR...… Oh wait, if you won that would be a socialist entitlement :>)
Rachel Mitchell sat with all 51 Republican Senators and told them that this kind of case would be thrown out in a criminal court. Case closed. Time to vote.
Nothing rests on a hinge pin. They're non-load bearing. Properly lubricated, they just slide right out.
Machiavellian intent by the Democrats aside; the guy's a creep and a drunk. Surely nothing that has been provided can prove criminality, but plenty has been provided to show that he is anything but the choirboy of impeccable character that he was originally portrayed as. The question is whether 50 Republicans are ok with a creepy drunk on the bench for life. I'm guessing they are. So let it be done.
Well that seems fair and balanced to have your hired "agnostic" special prosecutor pick sides.
Cabel News Race
Wed Sept 26 2018
Foxnews Hannity 4,450,000
Foxnews Tucker 3,622,000
MSNBC Maddow 3,462,000
Foxnews Ingrahm 3,413,000
Foxnews Baier 3,405,000
Foxnews The Five 3,265,000
MSNBC O'Donnell 2,668,000
MSNBC Hayes 2,221,000
MSNBC Hardball 2,196,000
CNN Cumo 1,583,000
CNN Cooper 1,428,000
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/kavanaugh-nomination-slated-vote-friday-morning-senate-committee/story?id=58107011
The Dems walked out like a bunch of spoiled children.
Ianimal stop… anyone who goes after a guy for drinking in high school and college is a hypocrite. He hasn't denied that he drank beer. What were you a choir boy in your youth? Somehow I doubt it having to watch the Pirates lose for 20 straight years. LOL… If we go by your standard then no one would be good enough for the Supreme Court. Fords allegations are full of holes and no one can back up her claims. There’s no reason to not confirm this guy unless someone comes forward with evidence.
good point Metsman, in this toxic environment both MLK and Gandhi would fail to win approval.
http://dailycaller.com/2018/09/27/lindsey-graham-mike-lee-orrin-hatch-personal-information-doxxed-wikipedia/
a house staffer doxxed republican senators - does the left have any rules?
Metsman, there are plenty of people who didn't drink at all in high school or in college. Certainly plenty of people who weren't falling-down drunks. These are the types of people who are fit to be Supreme Court justices, not people like you or me or Brett Kavanaugh.
Yeah, Iman --- but how many don't have sex?
"Our words and actions have consequences" Ted Cruz --- Kavanaugh vote summation.
Oh bull.
“I don’t get angry often. But you mess with my wife, you mess with my kids, that’ll do it every time. Donald, you’re a sniveling coward. Leave Heidi the hell alone.” Cruz
“What was he doing with Lee Harvey Oswald shortly before the death? Before the shooting? It’s horrible.” Trump
"President Trump is doing what he was elected to do: disrupt the status quo. That scares the heck out of those who have controlled Washington for decades, but for millions of Americans, their confusion is great fun to watch." Cruz
"Ted has my complete and total Endorsement" Trump
Just bull. I can take the vote. The lying chest thumping is killing me.
Sure, Kavanaugh, post college, has been a squeaky clean family guy. The question is for a SCOTUS, do we accept a guy who has a murky record in high school and maybe college. He likes beer, He has had too many beers on occasion. He said as much. He said way too much about beer. But he does not know how many beers are too many beers. He said that too. Strange ---- I can pick a number pretty quick and I don't drink.... He never had sex until after college. Stranger yet.
Kavanaugh is a judge who knows how to lie. He claims Ford was refuted by the three witnesses. That's a lie and he knows it. They said they can not recall. That's a huge difference and Kavanaugh knows it fully.
No one knocked Ford on her story. No one disproved her story. No one fully investigated her story. Seems that something happened. It may have been one of many, it may have been the only one. Does it matter? She is no political operative. She in no way did this for politics; politics did it to her. She has an old story that she is still grappling with and a man who will ascend to a post that she feels her story should be part of. So begrudgingly she came forward. She was blamed, shamed and then tamed by a hired gun that the Republicans used out of fear and then removed her when their gunslinger came on the floor. Strangest still.
It takes a week or less to run the investigation. If Grassley had done this, we would be complete a week ago. It's a background check. Yes, he had six. He had six background checks that focused on post-college so if we believe heinous acts in high school might preclude you from one of the highest positions in the land; if you believe heinous acts in high school should not result in your getting a job for life, then you would take a breadth --- run the background check and let the chips fall where they may.
Montgomery County MD is a unique place so we will see what happens next.
I laughed so hard when the Dems walked out...real adult, and a real good way to have the board hear your opinion....way to teach our younger gen that if you don;t like something you can just walk out.....bunch of cowardly fools
I am still not buying the story....she held onto the secret for how many years...told absolutely no one....but the day the guy has the spotlight and everyone knows who he is....THAT is when Ford decides to bring it up.....sorry but not buying it.
Also, not that it makes it right, but damn is she trying to put the hard sell on how "emotionally distraught" this whole nothingness made her....what did he supposedly do again......tried to take her clothes off and covered her mouth when she screamed? Nothing more.....he never actually raped her...he never forced himself on her (according to her accusations) Please!!!!! If this even actually happened, they were teenagers fooling around.....this world is turning into a bunch of whining losers it makes me sick. I was born in 1985...not old by any means (at least I tell myself) and stuff like this went on all the time....you were kids screwing around....nothing more then that. Seems to me she has bent what happened (If it did even happen) out of shape so far in her mind even she is beginning to believe it.
SD what do you want investigated? All potential witnesses say it either didn't happen or know nothing about it and she doesn't know when and where it happened. Mark Judge sent in a signed letter stating it didn't happen. That investigation would be done in an hour because there is nothing to investigate.
They should have walked days ago.....
"she held onto the secret for how many years...told absolutely no one...." She told a number of people well before Kavanaugh was nominated, or even on the conservative think tank's list.
""emotionally distraught" this whole nothingness made her" that's a low comment. Really low. Let's Ned Beatty you without the penetration and talk about nothingness.....
"what did he supposedly do again......tried to take her clothes off and covered her mouth when she screamed? Nothing more.....he never actually raped her..." there's a special place in Hell for thoughts like these.
"they were teenagers fooling around.....this world is turning into a bunch of whining losers it makes me sick." OMG..... let's neuter your kid before it's too late.
You sound like the people who just let this crap slide. I would have blacklisted them just for spiking the punch. My friends and acquaintances would never accept the behavior you apparently condone. If these boys jumped a girl, we would have made sure they certainly did not have sex until after college. Even in the wild n wooly 60's and 70's.
My goodness Darrin. Do us a favor, show that post to your wife and report back......It's a teachable moment on how to be a real man. You should walk that one back and claim beer blackout :>)
"SD what do you want investigated? All potential witnesses say it either didn't happen or know nothing about it and she doesn't know when and where it happened." No, they said they didn't recall. Renate has had a change of heart for some reason. The reason you investigate, by pro's, not staffers, is to change recall to refute AND/OR to perhaps uncover other leads that will collaborate Ford's or Kavanaugh's story. One week to shut everyone up. What are you afraid of? Need a female to front for you?
So you want these people questioned again because you think they'll suddenly change their minds? LOL...
Apparently R-Jeff Flake is calling for a limited FBI investigation, not to exceed a week. The funny thing is even if they come back with nothing more, the Dems still won't vote for Kavanaugh and will come up with some other BS.
SD, I will be very clear and say this only once...DO NOT talk about or involve my wife...or my son.....especially not "neutering my son" WTF is wrong with you? I don;t talk about your family do I? That is crossing the line.
Secondly if there was any valid proof to Ford's statements, or she didn't wait 35+ years...it would be much more believable....too little too late and at a opportune time just has too much running against it in my opinion....and even if it was true what was the crime? He was under age, and he didn't actually rape her.....so it wouldn't even be a chargeable offence...gasping at straws.
But, with that being said....go ahead and investigate, i welcome this just so this clown show can be over, I am so tired of hearing about it every day non stop....whoever is lying...lock them up...for a VERY long time either Ford or the Judge, and anyone else lying under oath trying to cover for others...I hope they do HARD time.
SD is a hypocrite. He got irate when someone mentioned his family a week or two ago. Now he's doing the same thing...
Yes the CLOWN SHOW goes on. Will Booker have another hissy fit? Will Graham have a nervous brackdown. Tune in next week for more drama. Think about it, we elect these people.
So the investigation must be *complete* by October 5th.
We'll see how much patience the FBI has in trying to interview Dr. Ford if she (or her lawyers, who apparently withheld information from their client) try to delay some more.
It would already be over if just old Grassley had listened to young Grassley and had done what he had said should have been done when he did it before.
Grassley is BI.
Beyond Insane.
Old guy got rut stuck. Couldn’t shift gears. After an emotional morning where America could learn much about the effects of this type of abuse, stirring for most. Then broke process and Lyndsey, who had been gritting his teeth while sitting on his hands since 9:30 am, ejactulated politically about politics. Grassley took a cigarette break after that. Then we came back to a rough n tumble session, rally speeches from the right, pleadings for invesigation from the left, and the most unjudge-like red-faced bully in the middle. (bad coaching there). Congress was normal for Congress; I hope he was an anomoly with those emotions. I’m more into cool and dispasionate for my SCOTUS.
Did we just have to pay for half day for the hired gun? I mean she was benched for the second half. She could of been home in Arizona for dinner.
I feel for Kavanaugh’s family but we must listen to women; try our hardest to determine the truth in a much more compassionate way to ALL parties than this episode. That was in Grassley’s authority too.
Exactly Mets, but with the Communist left it's, "Do as I say, not as I do". I do not believe that "paid for" pig Ford. Any women who experiences what she claims can remember exactly "ALL" of what happened, right down to the smallest detail. Hell, they can remember what color underwear they were wearing. The women's group I belong to have discussed this in great length, and we all come to the same conclusion, she is a liar. It could be because we are all white, Christian, female heterosexual's.
Apparently, the Ford "team" has rejected the 1-week investigation... they don't want a deadline (of course... because as I said, this is all about the midterms).
So McConnell tweets:
"Today, with the unanimous support of my conference, the senate will proceed to the nomination of Judge Brett Kavanaugh to serve as Associate Justice on the Supreme Court of the United States."
That's a little vague... is he going to do the investigation? Or maybe not now since Ford's "team" isn't agreeing to the terms (which is irrelevant; they are finished. They have no more play in this matter) ?
Absolutely ridiculous... it took 3 days in 1991. They’re getting 5 days in 2018. Sorry but it isn’t going to take the FBI longer than that with there being no evidence in the first place...
Mark Judge said he'll cooperate with law enforcement. So that means just another re-affirmation of Kavanaugh's story. What's Ford got? Can she even remember who's house it was yet?
So the dems have a week to magically pull something else out of their asses. They probably have it ready to go already...
11 years in prison, innocent. Victim says "I was 100% sure he did it... but I was wrong."
https://www.theblaze.com/video/powerful-rape-survivor-speaks-out-eyewitnesses-can-make-mistakes
Per the Montgomery county chief of police and states attorney the allegations if true would have been a misdemeanor and the statute of limitations expired in 1983.
Can’t wait for the headlines
CNN: “Montgomery Officials do not recognize Dr. Ford as a sex crime victim”
MSNBC: “How statutes of limitations, written by old white men, are problematic for minorities and women”
Just change to assault with intent to rape and you are 1982 felony again. Talk to the hand.
SD, please read the attachment to Skippy’s post...
“Talk to the hand”
Right comment, just a bit premature...
So here’s a thought.
Dems keep asking for more delays... unending investigations... whatever.
Trump pulls the plug on Kavanaugh and nominates Barrett (a woman).
She claims she is a victim of sexual assault.
How could anybody NOT fully support her?
Any NO votes would be bullying a survivor (remember, no actual evidence is needed).
Well, the rest of my plan still stands.
As we’ve seen from the Dems, once someone merely claims they have been assaulted they are politically untouchable.
Oh yeah, I've already decided the next democrat to run for president sexually assaulted me 35 years ago. Even if it's a man. lol
The FBI will investigate, come up with nothing, and the Dems still won't vote for him and continue to bash him. Watch video clips from July. They trashed him back then before the hearings even took place. The Democratic party is a joke and thank god Jeff Flake is not running again for the Republicans. He is spineless. SD will come on here and say the investigation wasn't thorough enough. Lets be real... there's next to no way you can confirm Ford's allegations are credible.
I agree with Metsman....there is nothing that can be done or said to clean this man's reputation. The police could travel back in time....see that Ford is full of b.s. and the Democrats would STILL claim it happened....it is that bad....you know my saying....repetition until you believe it yourself.
So much for innocent until proven guilty.....you know.....that little LAW we are suppose to abide by....but yeah, I forget...the Dems can make their own rules....they do not have to follow the book.
This whole debacle further highlights the problem with our Country's two party political system. Everything is voted straight down party lines. You will never convince me politicians on both sides vote their conscience 100% of the time. No matter how this ends, our country will continue to be divided by red and blue. We desperately need leaders who are willing to negotiate, compromise and vote as individuals.
Clearly I’m already taking to the hand SD
The Democratic Caucus Chair of Montgomery County, Maryland reported a potential 35 year old crime she heard about through the media and on TV. She doesn’t personally know the person claiming to be the victim and the output was that letter.
Thanks for proving that the left doesn’t care about the legality of any of these accusations. So the FBI is investigating - let me play Karnak the great and read you the report now.
“It's a potential state level misdemeanor 30 years past statue of limitations, with no evidence and witnesses who coraberate the allegations”
“I agree with Metsman....there is nothing that can be done or said to clean this man's reputation.”
“So much for innocent until proven guilty.”
The goal was to irreparably harm his reputation. The proceedings were not a legal process and therefore presenting the truth wasn’t the intent. In fact, Schumer out right admitted so during an interview when he specifically said that there “is no presumption of innocence or guilt” required for the matter because it was NOT a legal proceeding.
As I said before, this is a circus meant simply to distract people emotionally (it really does work every time) in order to direct the outcome in the direction the Republicrats wanted. Just look at all the wasted time talking about this on our piddly little hometown forum. I’d say “mission accomplished” far beyond expectations.
Well, we have another "I told you so" moment coming up I see.....
"Right comment, just a bit premature..." Apparently. I saw a story that said if the complaint was lodged as "assault with the intent of rape," then that's a felony under 1982 Montgomery County MD law. I now think that story was wrong. "Ford’s allegations could, however, lead to other felony charges that have no statutes of limitations in Maryland, including assault with the intent to rape, according to Thiru Vignarajah, Maryland’s former deputy attorney general." https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/09/maryland-statute-limitations/571507/
My take is probably not unless some legal jockeying of the charges could be made. Moot point really given the FBI investigation continues.
"the Dems still won't vote for him." Most but probably not all, red states.... Fact is Dems precluded him based on his opinions on Executive Privilege which push on the edges of the Constitution. His opins on Row v Wade ain't too comforting either. Others may be voting no because of the missing documentation that the Republicans are holding back unless Spartacus helps out again... :>)
"SD will come on here and say the investigation wasn't thorough enough." Perhaps, perhaps not. Certainly you will come on and say something about SD, personally; that's for sure. You always hate the one you love :>)
"Ford's allegations are credible." Don't have to. Just have to prove Kavanaugh is a liar; it's advice and consent, not innocent until proven guilty.
"Everything is voted straight down party lines" uh....Jeff Flake....how many Republicans have thanked him.....
"Thanks for proving that the left doesn’t care about the legality of any of these accusations" There you go again complimenting me as being the voice of the entire left... Thank you even if totally untrue. Fact is I did care, I do care for you very much Skippy. I had looked up your letter, found a story, reported out, and you pounced on me as being the alpha liberal.....again. See above as to your explanation....
It is a circus, it is the arena, there are politics put on top. Even the Flake kumbaya moment is political theater. And what's with the crying men.... This is Congress, there's no crying in Congress.... I am sorry, I am all for equal rights, showing our feminine side, but men crying in public. Come on, we need to hold on to some of our unique manliness. We're killers, not criers. I mean Kavanaugh soft-sopping his speech....how much practice did he have....doesn't work for Dick Vermeil either... And Coons, come on, man up for gosh sakes or get a room.....
Fact is we will run the paces and see where we come up. Many, myself included, think Kavanaugh will come a cropper on a few of his truths about sex, drinking, and his fast times at Georgetown Prep.
All good I’ve been known to jump the gun too - I don’t understand why anyone would feel it’s ok to ruin someone’s life to further a political
Agenda. The left has alienated a lot of their constituents with this stuff. Remember the Anita hill stuff is what gave us Andrew Breitbart
Jump the gun? Hey, I just reported what the former Deputy Attorney General said. And I am still in the perhaps mode, looks like mode.... I mean he was the DAG.....
Yeah, well now you got Avenatti.
Seriously though.... I tried to renew the Florence thread to get the status from the ex-pats. We get no news up here. How's it going? Still got water? (use Florence thread).
As you stated - this is not a criminal investigation because a federal crime was not committed, this is only another background check. They can ask for some things, but without a subpeona they won't get them.
Based on the "current allegations" they can get 302s from the people named in Ford's statement, that's about it. So 7ish or something. We won't learn anything.
Thing is the FBI can go, I believe, where the facts lead them. So, for all we know, when they question Judge, he says he can't recall, but maybe he recalls some other folks there ---- question them. etc. etc.
I am not only looking for the truth of Ford's allegation statements, especially the timing/Safeway/etc aspects but also the truth of Kavanaugh's statements such as:
- I was a virgin through college (wonder what broke his record...)
- I only partied on weekends during the summer
- I never blacked out or drank to excess
- I was never violent when drunk
- Was he not in Colorado as he claimed
- The real meaning of Ralph, Renate and the like
Sure, each of these alone may be a little lie, but on the SCOTUS: Vitam impendere vero. After all, a lift time appointment should require a life time of truth.
And IMO, there's a real difference between having a lawyer draft your statement and having that Crown Vic drive up and unload those besuited sleuths of the FBI. So we will see, but to me, it's not the possible mistake of 17-year old Kavanaugh but the possible lies that Judge Kavanaugh may have told to cover it up.
We’re all human. Imperfect as that may be.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions.
Kavanaugh is free to hold his opinions regarding the Clintons, perceived backlash against tRUMP or a vast right wing conspiracy and “dark money”.
He may surely hold them as his truths and he is free to do so.
But in order to give the “ appearance” of a fair and unbiased judge - HE CANNOT STATE THEM.
His Friday afternoon rant shows us all that he cannot be impartial and unbiased.
Despite any findings by the FBI, or any other investigatory body RE: alleged predatory conduct
He (IMHO) showed himself to be incapable of impartiality and absent of the temperment required for a position on the High Court.
I’m sure that many ( most?) of the current sitting Justices wish he would just go away- his obtaining of a seat will cheapen the standing of the entire court.
As I noted before, I, for one, am hopeful Thursday's un-judge-like rant was an anomaly foisted on Kavanaugh by his handlers although his fervor seemed a bit sincere. He is a trained debater in the art of adversarial roles so he might just have been good at his job. Given his reputation not to be like this, I can toss the mulligan.
That said, this one is for JIT :>)
SPECULATION ALERT:
Brett Kavanaugh has led an exemplary life of service to America, no speculation there.
Brett Kavanaugh may have made a terrible mistake as a teen when he practiced binge drinking and went too far with a woman. Why would he do that, one wonders, if he was going for the virginal record books? Nonetheless, very good chance he has made no other mistakes. But, if he did do this, he did not pay for this mistake except perhaps in his personal life which has been exemplary. We will never know if some of that's in remorse.
Christine Ford was attacked and her life was forever altered on that night. The attack may have caused some personal changes, it may have exasperated other changes underway, maybe the changes would have happened anyway. Speculation. But after the incident her life was inexorably changed.
"It was horseplay," "nothing really happened," whatever ---- once the door was locked, the hand over the mouth ---- it's beyond horseplay, we have a real problem here. The fact that Bill Clinton or anyone else did it does not exonerate any perpetrator of such a heinous act. One thing Ford showed us was even this act, tame as some have posited, leaves a lifetime scar.
Now with that speculation, the question of fitness for SCOTUS comes in. If the allegations are false, he gets in. If they are true, do you preclude him for this one mistake so many years ago? This a question worthy of debate and I am sort of on the fence. It was a terrible mistake, they were kids, and he’s lived a spotless life of service. Has he been paying for the crime that Ford is still serving time over? That’s my speculative question and another one at this point that will never be answered.
IOW, what if Kavanaugh went over the line, kicked himself ever since for it, dedicated himself to a life of service, religion, and volunteerism --- because of it --- did so for over 35 years --- and fessed up immediately to the act and to his acts of contrition ---- then how would I vote? Again....we will never know --- speculation.
However, beyond that theoretical nature of the question, it doesn’t matter. Kavanaugh made a choice when this came up. He chose to say it didn’t happen, he drank too much sometimes but never to excess, no one can recall anything so therefore it didn't happen, ugly written, sexual innuendo's were either kid stuff or misinterpreted as to meaning, he’s was a virgin through college, and the like. And if any of that is not true, there’s the rub. The measure here is not innocent until proven guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt. The measure here is advise and consent for a life time position on the SCOTUS to be responsible for interpretation of all of our laws against the Constitution. And with that comes a long list of elements that MIGHT be considered deeming one unfit and hardly an element imagined that can’t be considered. Lying under oath to Congress is a no-no for most.
That is what this FBI investigation is about and that is what will, if anything, preclude Kavanaugh from sitting on the bench. Most of this was his choices: perhaps one in High School and this one at the peak of his career about his mistake in High School.
Or perhaps it was about her choices, that is, to falsely accuse. Again, at this point, we can never know so we look to further investigation to see if we can shine the light on who is telling the truth.
The good of this is that we will perhaps learn how to better proceed in these affairs. This was actually better than Anita Hill’s experience but, obviously, we have a long, long ways to go.
All Americans should be congratulated for having endured 8 years of Barak Obama. The latest debacle with Ford and Kavanaugh should pass more quickly. Yearning for normalcy and sanity in our country.
She's a few years older than he.
At the time of the alleged incident, wasn't Ford of legal consent age, while Kavanaugh was not of legal consent age?
Why doesn't Ford know WHO paid for her lie detector test?!
And why were there only 2 questions?!
Fishy stuff.
"Little lies point to bigger lies."
https://www.yahoo.com/news/comey-weighs-kavanaugh-probe-apos-232859425.html
Happiest girl give me a break... Like James Comey is a credible person... And as for Stymie and SD... The man has had his whole life trampled over by allegations that can't be proven and allegations that are full of holes. You think his temperament makes him unfit? That's laughable. No man would sit by and take that abuse. No judge deals with that in a courtroom. If anything his time as a judge has been exemplary. You start attacking a man's character and tarnish his legacy and everything is fair game. Sorry. Clarence Thomas did the same thing when he was attacked. I guess that's ok though because he's not a white man. The left has turned this into white men are evil.
Wouldn’t you want a judge who displays righteous indignation in the face of injustice and who applies only legal principals in defense of liberty?
So let me get this straight, the Senate Democrat leadership attempts to politically assassinate a man and his family through a coordinated smear, this man defends himself and they now are criticizing his temperament?
Sorry doesn’t hold up.
His temperament shown in that meeting was deplorable. He knows the system. He knows DC. He has seen this a hundred times. Give me a break.
And I gave him the mulligan on that, IMO, so back off and learn to read.
As far as a life trampled. Yes, you are correct, kind of. Christine Ford has had her life turned upside down by this man. If she is wrong, her life is ruined.
Or this man had his life upturned by Christine Ford. If he is right, then he gets a job for life, not exactly a ruined life.
Who went first and who did what ---- that's the question.
You say it's up to her to prove. She's got a polygraph. Likewise, it's up to him to defend. He refuses a polygraph. Again, this is advise and consent, not innocent until proven guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt. Both participants have strange aspects as to their retelling. One can't remember party facts after a lifetime of trying to forget. She had no friends in the room and no one can recall much of anything. She didn't bring charges or tell folks for years. The other can remember everything, has a diary/calendar, and has iron clad defenses for every single item except: "I really like beer." But, even here, he doesn't even have a clue what define drinking too much is.... He claims to never have had sex until after college: weird. He claims he never partied on a week night during the summer: weird. He claims it's the Clinton's revenge for Trump ---- bwhaaat??? The "Devil's Triangle" is a drinking game: weird. "Renate Alumnius" is complimentary: weird.
I think an investigation is appropriate, even this short one if it is not constrained or limited except for time. Met's feels his reputation is ruined unfairly. Perhaps we will learn he never had the reputation he so deserved. Time will judge the judge if Judge comes forth, not Mets.
Funny thing is I can find SNL freakin fabulously funny and you must have to turn it off.....
.
Exactly Skippy. And you have a Dem Senator calling himself Spartacus in a defiant manner, but a Judge isn't allowed to stick up for himself...
"Little lies point to bigger lies."
Little lies like being afraid to fly?
Little lies like not knowing the Senate offered to travel to California? (Although this would have probably *exposed* more lies, since I don't think she was IN California at the time).
Little lies like installing a second front door for escape (when it's really for the attached rental space for Google interns)?
Little lies like claiming the assault happened in the early, mid, and late 80's?
The real crime is that this tiny house is valued at 2 to 3 million $$ (hence the need for some rental and GoFundME income to help with the mortgage?).
Temperament in how you conduct yourself being accused of a sex crime is far different than temperament you would show as the judge in a court case.
Not even the same ballpark.
He is a human being. No one is claiming he is superhuman. He has every right to get upset when someone is attacking his character. This is why Judges recuse themselves from overseeing a case that is personal to them. This was not a court case, this was a man who believes in law and order, our Constitution, justice and fairness. What he was expressing was frustration, anger, possibly hurt over the utterly unjust and unfair situation he was put in. He’s had 36 years of exemplary service to the judiciary - nobody has attacked any of his opinions.
He wasn't sitting as a Judge to rule over anyone. He was sitting as a man who sees all of this for what it is and is upset his name is being run through the mud and his family being dragged with him.
Cory Booker(Spartacus) the self admitted groper. Where is T Bone?
cory_bookers_lost_youth_it_looks_like_spartacus_ha.html
Irregardless of the “investigation “ finds.
He stated through his words and showed through his conduct ON FRIDAY that he cannot be fair minded nor display the demeanor necessary for the position.
But really, who cares?
I don’t have a daughter that may have to rely on less safe procedures- many of you do.
And the wave reaches Tsunami proportions.
Can’t wait to see tRUMP’S taxes!!!
“People suck”, or at least “others suck more than me”
‘Bout sums it up
http://www.danoah.com/2013/04/9-big-ways-all-people-suck-at-least-occasionally.html/2
Stymie you're delusional dude.... What they put him through was ridiculous. If you can't see that then I feel sorry for you...
The problem here isn't the Democrats; the problem is the process. Congress should have a better way to handle these types of concerns rather than in open debate in Committee, on the floor, and in the press. Whole thing should have been taken off-line in a private investigation before anything was discussed in open forum. Grassley screwed the pooch on process, his own process, one he used before..... He could have made it better, he did it worse. Far worse than he even did before.
"Grassley screwed the pooch on process, his own process, one he used before."
Feinstein screwed the pooch by holding the first allegation for ~6 weeks and not sharing it with the majority side. If she had notified Grassley on day 1 there would have been a confidential investigation (whether by senate staffers or FBI) *prior to* even Kavanaugh's first hearing and private meetings with the senators.
But, that's not what she wanted.
Ford's lawyers screwed the pooch by not informing her that the SJC would have traveled to California for a confidential interview.
But, that's not what they wanted.
Grassley owns the process.
Feinstein holding, whether valid or not, and at least of major portion of that time is a valid hold on behalf of her constituent, does not change that nor does it change the ability to do that. If Grassley added the entire 6 weeks, the only thing lost is 6-weeks.
Once Grassley showed his hand to rush the vote, I would not accept a staffer-session in CA either. I mean if Grassley's public circus is proof, what would you expect the private staffer session to look like?
When it comes to the process, Grassley is the only one to one it. I mean if he had to have Flake and Coons bail him out, some process owner......
Fienstien had the information for 2 months proceeding the hearing, and had available to her several methods of dealing with it privately in accordance with Dr. Ford's wishes. She did not, and instead "conveniently" leaked it at the most damaging possible moment to cause delay - so there's that... sure sounds like a democrat problem.
Why is Sparticus on the Senate and the judiciary committee when he's admitted to sexual assault and wrote about It? potential conflict? Democrat problem.
Why is the Senate not demanding further investigation into Keith Ellison when there's credible evidence against him and is actually actionable (it happened last year) - until then he should recuse himself. Democrat problem.
"He wasn't sitting as a Judge to rule over anyone. He was sitting as a man who sees all of this for what it is and is upset his name is being run through the mud and his family being dragged with him."
How well did he see the Ken Starr/Bill Clinton investigation for what it was? Seems to me he went out of his way to make that as uncomfortable and mud dragging as possible. Now that the shoe's on the other foot, he wants to cry foul?
And who dragged his wife onto Fox News? He did. Who brought his daughter into this by saying that she was "going to pray" for Dr. Ford? He did.
He's a political whore and it's funny that you've been suckered into thinking he's somehow genuine in any way. I know you probably think that this will be a nice long nail in the coffin of the anti-2A'ers... and I can appreciate that sentiment. But there are better people out there who will accomplish the same end.
"Why is Sparticus on the Senate and the judiciary committee when he's admitted to sexual assault and wrote about It?" What's the statute of limitations in CA and what's was the law at the time of the offense?
"Why is the Senate not demanding further investigation into Keith Ellison..." "Democrat problem" As I keep telling you, but you keep whining to forget....you own the Exec branch, the Congress, most of the States ---- so it's your problem. Do something except whine about it....
Feinstein followed her constituents desires to remain private until the Press began to out Ford forcing her hand to change her privacy desire. You're shooting the messenger. And if you don't like it, do something besides whine about it.
I have never seen so many issues revolving around the concept of a fair and impartial investigation. I mean Ellison, Clinton, Booker, --- who else you gonna drag out to make you feel better? And I really don't think I will be coming out with the upper hand here UNLESS Kavanaugh has egregiously lied big time about his "habits" meaning the lie, not the habits may end up being his downfall in advise and consent.
did you see the memo he wrote in the Clinton investigation?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/brett-kavanaugh-memo-detailed-explicit-questions-for-clinton/2018/08/20/c0854616-a488-11e8-8fac-12e98c13528d_story.html?utm_term=.20afbca7099a
Kavanaugh essentially calls Clinton a self-centered liar who used taxpayer-funded political and legal resources to carry out and help cover up an affair in the Oval Office.
Kavanaugh writes:
“I have tried hard to bend over backwards and to be fair to him and to think of all reasonable defenses to his pattern of behavior. In the end I am convinced that there really are none. The idea of going easy on him at the questioning is thus abhorrent to me.”
“It may not be our job to impose sanctions on him, but it is our job to make his pattern of revolting behavior clear — piece by painful piece — on Monday.” He considered anything less an effort to “conspire” with Clinton.
sorry that gives him even more credibility in my eyes - this is not a guy who has rape skeletons in his closet.
I honestly don't believe he is a political whore.. I think he the White House is doing this stuff - they are not going to let him hang. I think his handlers did that - but I see your point - he was raised in DC and was always political - so I don't really have an argument there.
I was hoping that Amy Coney Barrett would have been the nominee but shes on the bench for when Ginsburg pulls a Scala and wakes up dead.
SD - they’re not going to do anything about it because the Dems really are shooting themselves in the foot with this. Forget independents, this circus is even turning away lifelong Democrats.
It is becoming readily apparent to mainstream America that The Dems believe “the ends justify the means”, and lack principles. Sorry - your team grossly overplayed this hand when they decided false rape accusations were an acceptable tool to defeat their political enemies.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - whether its advise and consent or beyond a reasonable doubt. It’s just not there.
Skip, it wouldn't be the first time that a penitent rapist went overboard on attacking another scum bag. I mean his virulent attack is about a guy having consensual sex. If that raises his hackles, maybe he's just trying to make up for his own actions.
As far as Dems turning away, once Lyndsey exploded, all was forgotten.
I honestly don't have a Kavanaugh temperament issue, I threw my mulligan on that.
To sum that "It’s just not there" I think is a bit premature. Polygraph yes for her, no for him. He's holding the "not valid in court of law" defense. Many allegations by many who knew him flying all ways. The senate just interviewed, accepted "I don't recall" and then Kavanaugh --- who as a judge knows better --- magically turned no recall into refuted. IMO, we wait to see what the FBI finds.
I do think he did some crazy stuff as a kid and IMO there's a very good chance he made this mistake with Ford. If so, he went a Hell of a lot farther over the line than your Booker confession. Since then, I think he's lived an exemplary life beyond that and don't hold a bit of drinking, even binging, or partying against him at all. But if he locked that door, if he put that hand over her mouth, then he can rot in Hell. And if he has lied, which I am pretty sure he has, about the drinking, the partying, his virginity, his culpability, then the lying alone should disqualify him --- given the nature of the job. I won't even get into the other resume lies he has already told, the focus is on the Ford testimony and what lies might be uncovered there. Because if he lied, then probably his anger was partly an act, and we just don't need this crap on SCOTUS.
Hilliary never cracked
And she has withstood the barrages for years.
Kavanaugh cracked like an egg in ONE AFTERNOON.—(weakling)
His seating will debase the Court for years to come.
Should withdraw his name and keep his current day job.
she didn't crack? no she just threatened her husbands accusers..
The Today Show interview with Matt Lauer on January 27, 1998
“This is—the great story here for anybody willing to find it and write about it and explain it is this vast right-wing conspiracy that has been conspiring against my husband since the day he announced for president. A few journalists have kind of caught on to it and explained it. But it has not yet been fully revealed to the American public. And actually, you know, in a bizarre sort of way, this may do it.”
“I think we’re going to find some other things. And I think that when all of this is put into context, and we really look at the people involved here, look at their motivations and look at their backgrounds, look at their past behavior, some folks are going to have a lot to answer for.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FG0V6ue8oSw
https://www.c-span.org/video/?99377-1/today-tuesday#
(Today Show video hosted by C-SPAN, comment at 13:00 mark.)
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2016/02/25/the_trashing_of_bills_accusers_what_did_hillary_do_--_and_why_did_she_do_it_129787.html
"In 1991, for example, when a woman named Connie Hamzy emerged to accuse Bill Clinton of having an affair with her, Hillary Clinton said, “We have to destroy her story,” according to Stephanopoulos. He then set about arranging affidavits from people who could back up Bill Clinton’s story: “We’d survived our first bimbo eruption,” Stephanopoulos recalled.
Later, Stephanopoulos wrote, he wondered whether he had been “complicit” in Bill Clinton’s behavior “because my defense of Clinton against past bimbo eruptions had been predicated on my belief that he wouldn’t create new ones.”
https://www.amazon.com/All-Too-Human-Political-Education/dp/0316929190/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=
was that a better strategy?
here is a good synopsis
https://www.dailywire.com/news/9585/9-times-hillary-clinton-threatened-smeared-or-amanda-prestigiacomo
Hillary cracked up the night she lost the Presidency of 2016. She left her constituents in the dark. She "LEFT" them. She was so cracked up she couldn't even come out from behind the curtain and thank them for their service, their stead fast support, their devotion to her campaign. Nothing. She owed them that and couldn't deliver. Thank God she did not win. Her character that night was proof she was unfit to be POTUS.
Lmao. Woman on a news interview going on and on and on about Yale boys spiking the punch at a party. I don't care where a college student was politically. If there wasn't alcohol in the punch, there was another party to try! Never once saw any guy anywhere force alcohol on a girl. Some drank, some didn't. And, shocker, girls who threw a party added grain alcohol to the punch too! Beware, beer in the keg contained alcohol. What has the American political system/media become? A 3 ring circus! Left, right, media.
"Never once saw any guy anywhere force alcohol on a girl"
"I am sure in the 80's when she was whoring around, there were more boys then this one. Who else nailed her? Just saying."
"I do not believe that "paid for" pig Ford. Any women who experiences what she claims can remember exactly "ALL" of what happened, right down to the smallest detail. Hell, they can remember what color underwear they were wearing. The women's group I belong to have discussed this in great length, and we all come to the same conclusion, she is a liar."
I just love this place....."In the U.S., one in three women and one in six men experienced some form of contact sexual violence in their lifetime" (NSVRC). Because this group, for some reason, has never been part of the stats....
UPDATE: 500 kids still detained at the border as Trump's attempts fail and they seem to give up on reunification. They have contacted over 300 deported parents, but about 100 cannot be found. At prevailing rates, this could cost us $375K a day, $137M per year or, if the average age is 10, about $2B until they age out as newly minted US citizens. Nice job to spend billions where very little needed to be spent at all.
However, the separations continue. According to NYT reports from Congressional leaks, at current there are over 13,000 detained kids. In May, 2017, there were 2,400. Shelters are operating at 90% capacity meaning basically there’s no more room at the Inn. And the kids are being held for an average of 2 months, twice the normal interval of the past. IOW, we are losing ground during a period when border crossings are significantly down in general.
At a cost of about $1.8B a year for the taxpayer. The 400 cot city has expanded out to 3,800 at the taxpayer's expense. Some here call three hot's and a cot a pretty good deal. The kids think they are being punished and incarcerated. They yearn to be free again.
In the dead of night, under the cover of darkness, the government is moving thousands of kids to tent cities in Texas. There are no schools at tent city. Workbooks are available but school is not mandatory. There are tents, porta potties, infirmary and dining tents. But mental and medical health facilities are in demand so routine health checks are skipped. At the shelters, there were activities, maybe some birthday cakes, and the like. At tent city, there is none of this. Kids are not told in advance, basically they get a touch on the shoulder as they sleep. Now, for these particular traumatized kids, imagine what this means from their cultural experience to be hauled away in the dead of night.
Meanwhile, in North Korea news, China and Russia have asked Trump to pull back on sanctions. Nicki Halley has said Russia has been cheating anyways. Trump is yelling about Obama starting a war in NK claiming only the election of Trump stopped it. Trump goes before the UN, gets laughed out of NYC. Basically, we met, NK said OK – no nukes, mission accomplished crowed Trump. then talks broke down, so NK met SK and said mission accomplished without Trump, Trump claimed credit and now we can have another photo op meeting. It’s like Roseanne all over again.
That an alcoholic, gang rapist, ice thrower, can graduate cum laundr from Yale and be considered for the Supreme Court after 30 years of exemplary service either clearly illustrates Kavanaugh's ability to multi-task or the allegations are false.
Good point skippy, you don't get to be 1st in your class at high school, 1st in your class at college by being a falling down, blacked out drunken buffoon.
That just doesn't happen.
But the hate continues unabated with no regard for the facts.
Fact is Kavanaugh was 1st in his class for a reason, he was focused on his school work and excelled at it. You don't excell at school work like Kavanaugh did and become 1st in your class as Law school if you are constantly drunk. It just doesn't happen.
And Dr Ford clearly lied about her fear of flying as we now know she has flown all over the country this summer. If she lied so easily about something this simple, wonder what else she has stated that may be untrue. Lies like this brings her entire testimony into question.
"ice thrower"
The Democrats will want a further delay until the FBI can locate the ice cubes in question.
It also exhibits a pattern of behavior. Every winter prior to that event Kavanaugh would throw snowballs at other people.
Good one Mark, coming from the team who went after a guy for financial crimes and came away with a stained dress from a BJ for $70M and 6 years of investigation.
As the allegations mount up, the facts showing "he likes beer" a freakin lot, he likes groping in multiple instances, he may have attempted witness tampering, you cry for more speed, less investigation, because you are satisfied you know the truth.
You can't even release the governance model for the investigation. It's a secret and we only have Trump's word for what is being done ---- that's a very low bar for truth.
Now you're complaining about an investigation that's totally under your control. A Republican caused it, a Republican stopped it, and now you have your knickers knotted because you can't "plow right through." Boo hoo, boo hoo. Who's making this political now?
"Now you're complaining about an investigation that's totally under your control. A Republican caused it, a Republican stopped it, and now you have your knickers knotted because you can't "plow right through."
... and that means the Dems are out of cards to play. This investigation is to satisfy Flake, Collins, and Murkowski only. If they are good with it, then Booker, Harris, and Hirono (et al.) can whine all they want, their votes wouldn't be changing no matter what the FBI finds or doesn't find anyway.
"Good point skippy, you don't get to be 1st in your class at high school, 1st in your class at college by being a falling down, blacked out drunken buffoon."
Based on the world, this is just blatantly untrue. There are plenty of functioning drunks at the highest levels of our society and they are much sharper in their younger days.
And no one is saying that this went deep into his adult years.
In the end, if he is cut loose, it will be for his multitude of lies and his politically biased demeanor, not his legal qualifications, charity work, family life, or his high school and college years as a blackout drinker, bar fighter and serial groper.
In any other job requiring a high level of security clearance, he would be zapped already. Only you guys are lowering the bar for your SCOTUS dream child.
WTF did he lie about SD? Man you are the king of spin. Ford's testimony is full of holes and you call the man a liar? You're just saying it because it fits your narrative.
SD - back to the kids.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/30/us/migrant-children-tent-city-texas.html
here is the article I presume you are referring to - who knows you didn't link it.. after reading it I see why.
2500 of the kids are due to the zero -tolerance policy. the rest showed up by themselves.
"The system for sheltering migrant children came under strain this summer, when the already large numbers were boosted by more than 2,500 young border crossers who were separated from their parents under the Trump administration’s zero-tolerance policy. But those children were only a fraction of the total number who are currently detained.
Most of the detained children crossed the border alone, without their parents. Some crossed illegally; others are seeking asylum.
Children who are deemed “unaccompanied minors,” either because they were separated from their parents or crossed the border alone, are held in federal custody until they can be matched with sponsors, usually relatives or family friends, who agree to house them while their immigration cases play out in the courts."
should we just release them without having a sponsor to care for them? I guess you would prefer these children to become victimized in the streets and preyed upon.
"The camp in Tornillo operates like a small, pop-up city, about 35 miles southeast of El Paso on the Mexico border, complete with portable toilets. Air-conditioned tents that vary in size are used for housing, recreation and medical care."
ac and medical care? that more than many american children have...
"“Close to 80 percent of the individuals that are either sponsors or household members of sponsors are here in the country illegally, and a large chunk of those are criminal aliens. So we are continuing to pursue those individuals,” Mr. Albence said."
sorry the process is not moving fast enough for you - should we release the children to criminals?
Holy Spin batman
Sorry. I did say separations contined, you are right, they came alone. But the fact we are overwhelmed is spot on; the fact we are holding for double the average time is true, the fact these facilities offer less than our normal shelters os true, the fact we freak these kids out by surprise moves in the nigjt is true.
Mr. Albence lies; where are the numbers?
Not that much spin. But hey, they’re just immigrant kids, wtf cares.
Dr Ford clearly lied about her fear of flying as we now know she has flown all over the country this summer. If she lied so easily about something this simple, wonder what else she has stated that may be untrue. Lies like this brings her entire testimony into question.
Good Grief..........Grasping in desperation ??
Lot's of people are afraid of flying, including me, but we still get on a plane.
This should ruffle your feathers:
"More Yale Classmates Come Forward Claiming Kavanaugh Has Been Lying"
https://www.yahoo.com/news/more-yale-classmates-come-forward-153941633.html
I agree we’re overwhelmed and the emergency shelters are needed for the overflow - the article states they move the kids at night so they don’t lose any - it’s for their safety since we are responsible for their welfare. The only thing the article mentioned as being different was education but it’s an emergency stop gap measure.
They’re holding for double the time because they can’t get safe sponsors for the children - this is not a Trump policy issue but a de facto issue of being responsible for the safety of minors - not sure why you don’t care.
As far as Albance lying ask the NYT in the article you referenced - I have no idea where the numbers are.
In re Kavanaugh - I want to hear from his junior high and elementary school teachers and classmates. There has to be something. Playground rumor he threw a ball at a girl too hard! Monster.
happiest girl, I bet they all vote for Democrats too. Hearsay doesn't prove anything. Does someone have video tape or photos? Bring in actual evidence, then there's a reason to prevent his confirmation. This is all about him being the swing vote on the court. Plain and simple...
How did Brett lie about it? From his testimony to the committee:
“I drank beer with my friends. Almost everyone did. Sometimes I had too many beers. Sometimes others did. I liked beer. I still like beer. But I did not drink beer to the point of blacking out, and I never sexually assaulted anyone.”
He admits right there that sometimes he drank too many beers. As pretty much *everyone* has at some point(s) in their life - especially in college. That doesn't make everyone guilty of sexual assault. He also said there were things that happened (as a teenager) that would make him cringe today. Perhaps being involved in a bar "fight" by throwing ice is one of those... perhaps puking at the beach is one of those... He then became an adult, graduated (from a prestigious university while being involved in more extra-curricular groups/sports in one year than many people do their whole lives), and has led an exemplary life in public service with no allegations of personal misconduct (just political disagreements) for ~35 years.
SD, my only point was that if there was punch at a party, boys weren't secretly spiking it. People knew. Not saying what anyone did or didn't do if they got tipsy. Just saying drinks back then were generally freely taken. Today's talking head made it sound like alcohol was secretly added. Every party, all of the time. Why have such a stupid interviewee. For drama is why.
So Metsman, there has to pictures or video of a rape/attempted rape in order to come to a conclusion about whether it happened? It's already pretty obvious that the Kavanaugh supporters in this thread will find a way to justify any negative findings by the FBI. It's all hearsay, FBI is corrupt, the democrats are making it up, this is because they don't like Trump, etc.
You've all tried to justify supporting a sex offender before, you'll do it again. I shouldn't be surprised by this but there is an insane amount of morally terrible comments in this portion of the thread.
Reasonable how about ANY evidence? Let me ask you something, do you believe this Julie Swetnik woman? If you do I'd question your sanity.
None of us supported a sex offender. You are comical... Who are you referring to Roy Moore? He's the same kind of case. Accusations from 30 to 40 years ago by random women. Not a shred of evidence to prove it. Guy loses an election over it. Gee, did those women file a police report when they came out and accused him? Of course not. Their cases would be thrown out by a court. If that is how you want things run going forward then every time it is politically helpful someone will accuse a candidate of something. And if we have to believe them every time then you're looking at a real mess. But it's funny Keith Ellison isn't being investigated. That's because he's a Democrat. It's a different standard when one of your own is accused....
It was never about the FBI investigation.
It was never about Dr. Ford.
It was never about the documents.
It was about obstruct and delay.
To actually be a sex offender you need a crime to have been reported, investigated , and adjudicated none of that’s happened here - I know you jumped to thst conclusion the minute it was in CNN but that’s not now our judicial system works.
To answer your question you don’t need pics or a video but you need a place , time, and preferably some evidence or collaborating witnesses and most importantly you need to actually have made a report to a law enforcement agency empowered to act.
Skip: the care is why hold for twice the average rate. While your cya explains nothing except that they are being held longer. Of course you want a safe sponsor. Are you saying that up until this year, no safe sponsors were selected? It doesn't ring true; Trump frequently lies, and people working for Trump lie all the time to stay in his good graces.
I started drinking, pretty heavy at times --- like 2 beers, in sixth grade Skip, it happens. Funny thing the next year I stopped until High School..... Location, location, location.....
Maja --- there is spiking and there is spiking. No, I am sure everyone knew it was spiked. But with a good spike and the right person, you can change the future. Especially if you are targeting and getting the drinks. Used to bar tend catered parties. To get it rockin and rollin, all I had to do was serve 3/4 shots in the first round of drinks. The guys would come up for the second round with that "man, I can really handle it tonight" look in their eyes. Then, especially for those men who looked like career drinkers, you would double-shot the next round. After that, they were putty in your hands to get them very happy or as drunk as I wanted. Just target the turd for fool patrol and dose him up. And the women were just as likely to get a little more hammered than they expected that night when the ole Doctor started mixing them free free free drinkie poo's.
Hey, it was a long night, I needed something to do...… Guess who I learned it from: a rich kid from that Bethesda, River Road area.....
"Does someone have video tape or photos?" OK, that's gots to be one of the dumber HL statements we have seen to date.
For two years of serial rape by the same fellows without getting caught --- that's a hard one to swallow. Two years of different guys using the similar MO --- not as hard.
Dr./Mrs. Ford lied about flying to DC what else has she lied about? Brings her whole testimony into disrepute.
and sorry, but it's unreasonable to think that a functioning alcoholic would be able to rise up to become 1st in his class at Yale Law school, that just doesn't add up.
someone who likes beer is far different from the falling down, blacking out drunk that the loonely leftists are trying to paint here, and even if that was the case , that type of person doesn't rise to become 1st in their class at Yale Law school, that just doenst happen, time to get real about what's happening here,
And she lied about flying, make no mistake about that, she lied to us and got away with it scott clean, why would that be?
Some Trumputin news --- not that we didn't already know it.
Trump got 413 Million from his dad, much from tax dodges including outright fraud.
https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2018/10/02/us/ap-us-trump-inheritance-taxes.html
h g - Good for him!!! I wish I had a relative who'd give me a couple hundred million. The shame is the government knows and will keep trying to get as much of it as it can. Only an idiot would cheat on their taxes if they were of any significant worth. You don't see many paroled tax cheats with their fortune intact.
As for punch spiked with Quaaludes, that would be incredibly dangerous akin to Russian Roulette. There is no way to verify that each cup would get the correct amount which could easily result in one or more deaths that night.
Kids always made punch with grain alcohol because it was cheaper that 151 and didn't take as much to make 10-20 gallons.
"Does someone have video tape or photos?" OK, that's gots to be one of the dumber HL statements we have seen to date.
No SD people like you coming on convicting this guy with no evidence are the dumb ones...
“For two years of serial rape by the same fellows without getting caught ”
That’s the problem right there, in a nut shell: Please name the person who accused him of rape. One name along with the statement.
You’ve presented your conclusion yet again with your usual confidence, meaning the S(pin) D(octor) is doing his thing again. But you do it not because you already know you’re wrong, you do it to be manipulative, because it’s the *impact* of the statement that you’re really after by leaving the negative impression that you so desperately wish to leave the reader.
Do you work for the govt or the media? If not you’ve certainly got their schtick down to a science!
I know he's way out there sometimes but Is it just me or Is Trump acting like the only grownup in the room when it comes to Kavanough. Booker, Gramme, Shummer, McConnell? Think they really care what we think? Bunch of idiots. All our current incumbents should be voted out of office.
Sen. Kennedy is really an interesting guy.
Jit is paranoid....again.
I love it when you spin while accusing me of spin. You snagged that out-of-context tid bit of a quote like the pro you are. Changed the very meaning of what I wrote. Nice. Fair. Very Trumpian of you....as usual. And the unveiled insult. Beautiful.
Justin time is the least paranoid and one of the most level headed commenters on here. Of course the fact that a complete and utter nut job like SD thinks that of you must mean you are doing something right!
SD be fair - you cherry picked that article a bit. I’ve been guilty of it too and you remind me I’m better than that. You are too.
Which article skip?
Good one Suze. Very METS of you.
You guys really need some creativity with your name calling. So tame, so lame.
“Nut job, spin doctor, manipulator, dumb one, loony left —-how boring.
“—- that’s a hard one to swallow.”
But wait, there was even more....
And you know it. Unless it’s a very poor attempt at manipulation.
I find the most obnoxious posters have the thinnest skins. They are the same posters who habitually say the most offensive things and then act all hurt and offended when they get their own back. The proof is right here in this thread.
Loony doesn't even come close to describing the noxious nonsense that is presented as 'fact checked'.
Turns out Brett did know he was Bart. In his own hand in writing. Matter of fact, he was Bart for years. Everyone knew it. And Bart knew Brett was loud, obnoxious drunk and prolific puker.
Now the question is not about sex abuse or high school illegal drinking, now its how big a lie under oath to deny one SCOTUS. How contentious of the law can a SCOTUS judge be?
Why did he lie about his high school drinking habits?
More than 500 Law Professors -- including 8 from Yale Law School -- condemn Kavanaugh in a signed letter to the US Senate.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/more-500-law-professors-condemn-010208585.html
So I assume those 500 professors can point to specific *judicial* decisions affected by that temperament they don’t like? This hearing was the Dems attacking Brett Kavanaugh the (high school) person (who has, along with his family, been subjected to death threats and presumption of guilt as a serial gang rapist with no evidence), not Judge Kavanaugh.
Under those conditions I’d be more concerned if he *wasn’t* furious. Even Senator Jeff Flake has said as much, and he’s no solid BK fan.
Clarence Thomas didn't show good temperament when he accused the Democrats of a High Tech Lynching during his confirmation hearings. Were there 500 Law Professors that signed a letter and sent it to Congress?
This hearing was Ford's revelation about what Kavanaugh did to her to bring to light Kavanaugh's character.
Ford has been subjected to death threats for telling the truth.
Ford’s case has fallen apart. Grassley is still slapping her lawyers around about witholding evidence (further “encrypted” conversations she had with WaPo) and potential perjury about her polygraph (claiming she never coached anybody but the committee having received a letter from a friend claiming she did exactly that).
That’s why they’ve switched attacks to alcoholic ice thrower.
Party at Brett’s house after he’s confirmed.
Here’s the boyfriend’s letter to Grassley:
https://www.scribd.com/document/389992060/Declaration-Redacted-Ford-Friend
Here’s Grassley’s letter to the lawyers:
https://www.scribd.com/document/389989823/10-02-18-CEG-to-Ford-Attorneys-1
LOL
Try to get the facts.
Meanwhile, Kavanaugh is likely on the verge of a heart attack.
One-eyed poacher -- watch what you wish for. Do you not know that the money came from sham corporations & tax evasion?
The N.Y. State Tax Department is "reviewing and vigorously pursuing all appropriate avenues of investigation."
Signing off -- to watch Colbert for a good laugh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
“Try to get the facts.”
So enlighten us... what developments have come out supporting Ford’s case (or any others)?
Keep this in mind, the committee pretty much ignored obvious false “facts” (even those from the two men claiming it was them which would exonerate Kavanaugh). Do you not think a Grassley already had people confirming what he is asking Ford’s lawyers for, as well as the veracity of the boyfriend’s letter - which contains actual names, dates, locations, dollar amounts, and job application info that can be verified (maybe the FBI spared a few agents for this)?
Why do you think Rachel Mitchell *specifically* asked Ford during her hearing how she got there (fear of flying that doesn’t appear to exist at all) or if she had ever given tips to *anyone* about polygraph tests (which this letter claims she did)? Don’t ask questions you don’t already know the answer to in legal hearings... remember what you said earlier about little lies?
The worst you got on Brett at the hearings is that he was mad.
"Meanwhile, Kavanaugh is likely on the verge of a heart attack."
LOL it still amazes me (a little) how you guys just make up your own reality out of whole cloth when you don't like how actual reality is going. "I reject your reality and substitute my own!"
You guys REALLY should have waited to try this "scorched earth" technique for RBG's replacement, instead of blowing your cover with it on Kavanaugh. Because next time you try this ridiculousness, it'll be "the boy who cried wolf".
As for THREATS, this is a good one.... and it's people like this- PUBLIC statements like this- that won Trump the election, and could very well hold back your "blue wave"... until the left realizes how insane they've become, they don't have much of a future... and if Trump being elected doesn't make you realize that, I'm not sure what will...
Georgetown professor calls for murder and castration of Kavanaugh supporters. Emotions much?
https://www.chronicle.com/article/Georgetown-Professor-s/244708
Dr./Mrs. Ford flew to Hawaii for work and back east for vacation in August, so when did that “fear of flying” start and when did it stop? She lied about this, wonder what else she is lying about? This little white lie brings her whole testimony into question.
I still think he gets confirmed 54 to 46, any other predictions ? Come on now, take your best guess, make you best prediction, go out on a limb, what have you got to lose?
And one more thing, when they take the actual floor vote in the senate I wouldn't be surprised if these nut job senators make some kind of a resistance demonstration, either walking out or staging a sit in or something else just as inane
You all look more and more desperate the more antics you pull trying to derail this valid , qualified nominee.
"Dr. Ford clearly lied about her fear of flying as we now know she has flown all over the country this summer." I am never the passenger in any car. For good reasons. It's about righteous fear. Yet, if you want, you can find trips where I was a passenger. If I was going to speak to Congress, you can bet I would be driving. Do I lie? I don’t ride with other drivers, yet I have….
It’s a whopper for sure. Not. Again Skip, you are playing lawyer when you should be playing Senator: advise and consent. You are applying court-room metrics when we aren’t allowed to court-room question the witness. Otherwise, Brett would have had to answer many of those questions that he ducked or diverted away. Even then: Kavanaugh lies:
Christine Ford’s allegations are ‘refuted.' A judge knows "can not recall" is not refuted. He lied, lied knowingly, and lied to advance his case.
Kav said he did not attended any gathering ever like the one described by Ford" And furthermore, he never ever partied except on the weekend. His calendar says different on both accounts. He lied.
“She and I did not travel in the same social circles.” Ford was at Holton Arms and a year behind Kav. Squi dated Ford for awhile. At other times, Kav noted all his wonderful girls, who were only friends, from Holton-Arms.
"I never blacked out." From his email of 9/10/2001. “Excellent time. Apologies to all for missing Friday (good excuse), arriving late Saturday (weak excuse), and growing aggressive after blowing still another game of dice (don’t recall). Reminders to everyone to be very, very vigilant w/r/t confidentiality on all issues and all fronts, including with spouses.” Hmmm, growing aggressive, don't recall, but be discrete when you do.....
‘The drinking age was 18 in Maryland’ Again, he's a judge... Plus, what kid doesn't know the state drinking age..A lie, why? To advance his case.
‘Boofs’ ‘Devil’s Triangle’ and Renate Alumnis --- give me a break. His wife might be asking about his “boofing it.”
‘Beach Week Ralph Club, Biggest Contributor.’ Kav’s testimony says it’s spicy food. Spicy lie is more like it.
‘No connections to Yale’ except for Grandad when Yale take 25% in legacy students.
Mark Judge’s memoir was ‘fictionalized’ From the book, “This book is based on actual experiences.” for "Bart O’Kavanaugh (sound familiar?) vomits on someone’s car during Beach Week and passes out." Ralph Club, Biggest Contributor, Blackout, Passed out... What’s the chance that Brett never asked his best friend who Bart was…..
Turns out Brett Kavanaugh signed a beach-note describing their week of obnoxious drinking and prolific pukers ----- as Bart. Another lie.
He is a serial liar, under testimony, about what? High School binge drinking all those many years ago. Given the testimony, given the accusations, given the facts: why would he even bother to lie about that?
Remember, this is about Ford or the other accusers. It's about Brett Kavanaugh being fit to be a SCOTUS judge. If lying is a red line, he has crossed it and crossed it after a week of preparation for his righteous indignation which looks less righteous every day.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/brett-kavanaugh-lies_us_5bb26190e4b027da00d61fcd
Uh oh....somebody let Don's financial cat out of the bag. And NYS is already looking at a civil suit for tax evasion --- no statute of limitations today.
"But the more than 100,000 pages of records obtained during this investigation make it possible to sweep away decades of misinformation and arrive at a clear understanding about the original source of Mr. Trump’s wealth — his father.
Here is what can be said with certainty: Had Mr. Trump done nothing but invest the money his father gave him in an index fund that tracks the Standard & Poor’s 500, he would be worth $1.96 billion today. As for that $1 million loan, Fred Trump actually lent him at least $60.7 million, or $140 million in today’s dollars, The Times found."
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/10/02/us/politics/donald-trump-tax-schemes-fred-trump.html
"The Trumps’ tax maneuvers show a pattern of deception, tax experts say"
"Donald Trump began reaping wealth from his father’s real estate empire as a toddler"
"That ‘small loan’ of $1 million was actually at least $60.7 million — much of it never repaid"
"Fred Trump wove a safety net that rescued his son from one bad bet after another."
"The Trumps turned an $11 million loan debt into a legally questionable tax write-off."
"Father and son set out to create the myth of a self-made billionaire."
"The Trump parents dodged hundreds of millions in gift taxes by grossly undervaluing the assets they would pass on."
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/02/us/politics/donald-trump-wealth-fred-trump.html
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/christine-blasey-ford-ex-boyfriend-says-she-helped-friend-prep-for-potential-polygraph-grassley-sounds-alarm
Can't wait to see SD try to spin this story...
Ford is a Doctor of research/experimental psychology with peer reviewed research about how to create memories from hypnosis.
Her whole career revolves around manipulation of psychology to include coaching others to pass the exams which she lied about to the committee.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/christine-blasey-ford-ex-boyfriend-says-she-helped-friend-prep-for-potential-polygraph-grassley-sounds-alarm
The left can go start another dumpster fire now - this one appears to be under control.
It's funny, you go on CNN's site and there's no mention of this stuff... Doesn't support their narrative. That's why they are fake news...
Things have just gotten really pathetic now... So now you're not allowed to go to parties and have a good time or drink anything. If you do you're disqualified to be a Supreme Court Justice. If you dug into the pasts of the current sitting justices, I bet they all went to parties and drank too much at times as young people. This holier than thou BS from the Left is disgusting. Meanwhile Blumenthal lied about service in Vietnam, Cory Booker has admitted to groping a girl in HS, Dianne Feinstein employed a Chinese spy for years.... This should be about his service as a judge prior to this nomination. Not what his drink of choice when he was 18 was...
Democratic operative and anti-trumper Ford lied about flying , she lied about the polygraphs, wonder what else she is lying about?
For me the point is we heard nothing about the merits of kavanaughs opinions for the last 30’years - were they even reviewed? I would think that’s critical.
"Can't wait to see SD try to spin this story..." Metsman . . . .
+1 , spot on, the nut jobs on the losing side of this know no other way other than blind partisanship, and it is all about control and power for them, the virulent libs cannot abide a conservative supreme court and they will do anything, will say anything, lie about anything, to keep him off the court,
here's a clue, and they will have to go long to catch it, (don't think any of them have the stones to do it actually) ; Kavanugh will be seated on the court by Monday, so they will continue to make up some more stories and tell tall lies about them , repeat ad nauseam, over and over and over again, it's the Goebbels technique of propaganda in action, they are well practiced in employing it, but this time their BS isn't working and inside I think they know it but they just can't deal with it,
what a friggin' joke . . . .
Skippy you would think that is what the main issue should be. But then again the Dems resisted against him before he even had a hearing. It's all about preventing the swing vote from being a conservative leaning judge. SD can come up with all kinds of speculation, but that is the REAL issue at stake.
The Dems were saying they'd vote no to any Trump nominee before they were named.
I doubt they even read any of his opinions (except anything even tangentially related to Roe v. Wade or guns).
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2018/10/03/christine-blasey-ford-changing-memories-not-credible-kavanaugh-column/1497661002/
Whelp the left just dropped her and apparently Feinstein wants the FBI report sealed. What a difference a day makes
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/avenatti-emerges-with-new-sworn-allegations-against-kavanaugh-amid-questions-over-1st-client
Conveniently another person comes forward with hearsay. Anyone could come forward and say stuff without fear of prosecution because there's no way to corroborate it either way.
Wouldn’t it be nice if government was allowed to function without constant partisan obstruction.
I find gross generalizations with one-sided focus to be disheartening. First, just like conservatives, you must realize that all liberals are not cut from the same bolt. In liberal circles, I am not even a leftist. We are of many hues, of many attitudes on almost every subject. So are you, so act like it. I know – pot/kettle, clinton/obama, you-did-it-first….. sigh.
Second, at the root of it all, this is not court, it is not about law and order and the like. It is about each Senator answering the question: is this man deemed fit to hold the position of Supreme Court Justice. Being fit goes well beyond party affiliation or court case opinion legitimacy. The founders had two views: one which desired strong executive control, the others fretting about authoritarian control, wanted a strong Congress. Advise and consent is the win-win compromise. Beyond that there are very little guidelines from the Constitution.
I think the Founders desired a clear majority for selection, I am not sure when the supermajority was determined needed. And today we have the nuclear option so back to majority rules. The point of the supermajority was to augment selection of mid-stream candidates versus either of the extremes. Thus, the advise and consent role has re-taken the place of the super majority as the only means to modify and mediate the choice towards the middle. How do you like the process so far? Working for you?
And now we have a nominee that on his career merits seems to pass muster although there is the shroud of un-looked-at-documentation that covers the nominee as well as some “less than truthful” portions of his testimony on record in the many testimonies he has in his lifetime. Given the process, probably would be a shoe-in except....at the penultimate moment....character allegations were made from his High School and then College Days. Drinking, date-rape sorts of things.
There have been allegations made by three women so far as to sexual abuse of differing natures, but all featuring teenage sexual, ribald to some here, behaviors juiced up by alcohol but yet not forming any sort of pattern except being drunk. They may or may not be true, the participants may or may not be lying about part or all of it. But the allegations have been made.
Kavanaugh has responded, he has denied all. Yet in his response, he chose to lie about a number of issues contained therein. A number of these lies occur in areas that a judge knows better, a better judge would have not made these lies. There seems no real reason to lie about the fact he drank in High School, got drunk upon occasion, he pretty much said this. But he avoided any question about getting silly, being known to hurl, and probably has had a hangover or two. He purposely lied on a number of these questions while deflected others avoiding the direct answer that would have been compelled in a court of law.
I hope we can agree that advise and consent has nothing to do with the veracity of the accusers claims. However, the accused, lying under oath to Congress, while attempting to secure a lifetime assignment for the top job in the legal industry, should be considered a different matter. That is the matter the Senators must advise and consent upon; not on whether Ford lied or not.
That’s the rub of it. The accusers don’t matter; the partisan sides don’t matter; his exemplary life does not matter; his youthful drinking indiscretions don’t matter, even his assault/whatever allegations don’t matter. All that matters is whether this man is fit for this position and what is the Senate’s advice for consent on that matter. We know he lied in his testimony under oath; the question is do we accept some level of lies rom this man this man for this office.
Terrorists just tried to assassinate Defense Secretary Chaos Actual in Afghanistan - you didn’t hear about it because Kavanaugh drank beer in college
Kavanaugh never had sex in High School or College. He's the one! He's that guy.
I mean if you're getting stinking drunk while getting girls stinking drunk, what's the point?
From the article I saw:
“Fortunately, Mattis and Stoltenberg had already left the airport hours earlier”
Check the date on that article, JIT... sounds like an attack that happened on September 27, 2017, not today.
Just saw what today? The attack that happened over a year ago? That's why nobody's reporting it, not Kavanaugh, lol.
https://popularmilitary.com/assassination-attempt-mattis-chief-navy-operations-thwarted-pentagon/
My error someone sent him ricin
I read that it was whole castor beans and not processed ricin, but I dont know for sure if that's true. I also read that it was traced to a former sailor, so I dont know that it was an act of terror per se or just revenge from a disgruntled ex-employee. But I HAVE seen stories about it, irrespective of Bart's prevalence in the 24-hour news cycle.
The best thing that can happen to this guy at this point is if he doesnt get confirmed. If he does, he's going to be hounded and harassed by left wing nut jobs for the rest of his life.
“We know he lied in his testimony under oath”
Admittedly I should be well read already, but just what did he lie about. I saw some video of his deflection during the hearing, ie not answering direct questions, but didn’t hear or read what he lied about. Have a link?
"I can't believe you admit to watching Colbert" --- Metsman
I can't believe you DON'T watch Colbert !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"f he does, he's going to be hounded and harassed by left wing nut jobs for the rest of his life."
Eh... doesn't matter. They can TRY to use him as a punching bag to "rally their troops" if they want, but he's a SCOTUS judge- lifetime appointment- nothing they can do.
Unless they are foolish and naive enough to attempt to impeach him HAHAHAHAHA (because that's the only way to remove a SCOTUS judge, short of murdering him)
The Clarence Thomas debacle hasn't harmed him one bit. This was nothing more than a Bork-ing, except (if he's confirmed), it's one they lost. Kav won't suffer any ill effects from it, except nonsense from the radical left pussy hat wearers and lifetime politicians (like Feinstein)... as you said, "nutjobs".
"I can't believe you DON'T watch Colbert !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Yeah, he's a real Plato, that one.
(Plato being one of the great political thinkers of all-time, for those of you not familiar with history)
As i said before they will say anything to try and derail this eminently qualified nominee. Pelosi comparing Kavanugh to Putin and Kim Jung Un is as dispicable as it comes and is just one more glaring exapme of how deranged the Dems are. they have truly lost their minds.
And for the record, nobody, and i mean nobody of sound mind should be watching Colbert, or that other nut job Jimmy Kimmel, neither of them have anything of value to offer, (as Warner Wolf used to say; "You could have turned your sets off there"), (lol)
"I can't believe you DON'T watch Colbert !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" -happiest girl
So, that's where you regurgitate your talking points from. Makes perfect sense now.
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/409786-senators-will-view-fbi-report-on-kavanaugh-thursday
Alternating physical copy? Sounds like something that Feinstein doesn’t want leaked..
"Alternating physical copy?"
There's a memorandum of understanding that defines how these BI reports are secured and reviewed by the appropriate staff (not everyone is allowed to see them).
Here's just a cover sheet I managed to find in one article... I'm guessing there's probably several pages behind that with specifics.
LMFAO....the dems were already making excuses and staking other claims....even before the results of the FBI investigation they demanded were out.......you have to be kidding me with these children.
Ugh... my screen shot skills are slow this morning...
Here's the link that has images of the MOU pages.
https://twitter.com/senjudiciary/status/1047174704111542272
"Pelosi comparing Kavanugh to Putin and Kim Jung Un is as dispicable as it comes and is just one more glaring exapme of how deranged the Dems are." Really....given who your King is, that's where you draw the line?
Pelosi said: " "I guess there's a similarity that people have with the people that they respect. [Trump] is crazy about [Vladimir] Putin, in love with Kim Jong Un, and thinks Kavanaugh is a great, outstanding person." You appear to have an issue with the King's English and the King's truth.
Worse yet, she never compared Kavanaugh to Putin or Un and she knows how to use spell check.....
"Alternating physical copy? Sounds like something that Feinstein doesn’t want leaked." Skip, skip Skip.... It's Grassley's process, you won, remember.....:>(
Kavanaugh on Kavanaugh: "To be a good judge and a good umpire, it's important to have a good demeanor—to walk in the other's shoes, whether it be other litigants in the case or the other judges, and to keep our emotions in check, and to be calm amidst the storm."
"On the bench, to put it in the vernacular: Don't be a jerk. I think that's important to be a good umpire and a good judge. Don't be a jerk—in your opinions, to demonstrate civility. I think that's important as well, to show that you're trying to make the decision impartially, dispassionately, based on the law and not based on your emotions." (GQ)
Yeah, that was the guy we saw giving the over-the-top partisan, passionate, emotionally laden, conspiratorial testimony. Or did we she a "jerk" who lies?"
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2018/10/01/john-oliver-brett-kavanaugh-christine-blasey-ford/1490485002/#/questions
My fav is: "if you took a shot every time Kavanaugh lied in his testimony, you'd be as drunk as Kavanaugh in the summer of '82...."
"someone who likes beer is far different from the falling down, blacking out drunk that the loonely leftists are trying to paint here, and even if that was the case , that type of person doesn't rise to become 1st in their class at Yale Law school, that just doenst happen, time to get real about what's happening here,"
You and Trump sure love to brag about this guy's academic successes. Just to set the record straight... Yale Law doesn't rank their graduates, so to say he finished 1st in his class is an outright lie. His undergraduate degree was "cum laude", which puts him in the top 35% of his class but nowhere near the top. It's certainly something that a functioning drunk could accomplish.
Minimizing a top 35% Yale degree says what exactly? I couldn’t accomplish that whether sober or drunk!
You seem to be hung up on his youthful exuberance. Can I ask why that’s such an important aspect of passing judgement of his character?
Everyone grows and matures from a youth to an adult, and to think that ones behavior when they’re old will be the same as when they’re young is 100% misleading at best. Simply reflecting on our own lives should prove that, and if you disagree I’d call bs in a heartbeat. Thats called life!
Now if he’s lying about things or if the sexual misconduct accusations are proven to be true the ok, criticize away. But youthful drunkenness? C’mon, that’s just silly.
"Minimizing a top 35% Yale degree says what exactly? I couldn’t accomplish that whether sober or drunk!"
justin, I disagree-if you were driven and focused, it would happen. It's more about drive and attitude than anything else-unless there is something else about you that is not visible in your posts, at least from what I can see..
"Everyone grows and matures from a youth to an adult, and to think that ones behavior when they’re old will be the same as when they’re young is 100% misleading at best."
Agree 100%
Cum Laude at Georgetown Prep means top 1/3rd. Or top of the second third if you are a weak Cum Laude..... It's Georgetown Prep; where you pay dearly for a good education amongst a very "special," elite, by the very nature of their numbers.
Think Blair Academy times a snob factor of 4 or more..... It defines exclusive, you pay for it, and you reap the rewards. 100% college acceptance rate so the only question is where. While you might say, well, it's because the attract a smarter crowd and that may be true ----- but what is 100% true is that they pay big money, over $1,500 just to apply ---- $57K for tuition for 500 kids literally guaranteed to hit the big time in college selection.
Are they really that smart? You need to be only in the top 80% of your school to quality, but smart alone doesn't help with the finances --- there are no scholarships. None. SATs average 1386. Or the "fit." Don't think it's easy to get in. There's interviews, essays, and the like to assure "fit." "Fit" is very, very important to these schools. That's where poor Mom and Dad couldn't get me to conform.....fit. I would dump those essays with gusto even at the Friends Schools. (don't think we could afford it, Mom just had snob desires....had to love her for it.) Don't think Dad ever shed a tear even though he was Ivy (GI Bill).
Ranks fourth amongst 25 top most expensive and most exclusive schools. Blair is 15.
The drinking is no big deal. Kavanaugh’s testimony, however, was the worst acting job I’ve ever seen. I watched it live, before the spinning could start. I’m pretty sure that anyone who deals with the public and/or has a degree in psychology, could see it clearly.
I agree, the drinking, the high school hijinks all nothing. The sex abuse allegations --- worth investigating but beyond potentially drunken abuse, there is no real pattern here and certainly nothing turned up so far post school daze.
It's the testimony, the lies, the demeanor ---- all choices by our perspective candidate. I wouldn't hire this guy for any customer-facing job, period. I mean it's not like he isn't going to have any stress up on the bench if selected. Not like the firestorm will go out.
Plus, doesn't he have to now recuse himself from anything with Democrats? anything with Clinton? anything political? He's made himself a very narrow candidate with those emotional outbursts.
Guilty-Remnant and Ford's was so straightforward and truthful? Her testimony was like swiss cheese....
Yes Mets. And I would not vote for her for SCOTUS either
Not remembering is different from lying, screaming, talking over, and being very, very partisan.
NYS begins to investigate Trump Tax fraud stemming all the way back to Fred Trump's businesses.
Excellent.
Looks like over $400M in the offing for the public good. TY Donald J.
Why are people so hung up on the fact that he drank in college...GASP!!!! Who the hell cares! News flash!
And as for Ford's testimony.....you mean the one that she could remember not a single detail???? Okay.....
Hey here is an idea....maybe if you didn't wait 35+ years to say something precisely when the man is becoming a public figure you would have remembered some of the details.....if it is even true.
And again....according to her accusations he didn't rape her, he didn't even take her clothes off...according to the testimony...he apparently tried and that was it...far from rape, and not even a chargeable offence when they were 15 years old, let alone now!
OK, he didn't do anything, she can't remember everything.
But he did lie. He did falter from a SCOTUS judge's proper demeanor. And he drools a bit when angry. And he is a very, very, angry man.
SD, I’m not asking you to do my hw or anything but you keep stating he lied as if there’s no doubt about it. Since I’m coming up short in my search can you please provide a link that shows he was/is lying? Thanks
"different from lying, screaming, talking over"
I guess the mulligan you gave him didn't last so long after all...
"being very, very partisan."
That can happen when *every* Democrat is against you before the process even starts.
"doesn't he have to now recuse himself from anything with Democrats? anything with Clinton? anything political? "
Will RBG recuse herself from anything Trump related? I mean, she has had some pretty partisan comments of her own on that topic.
Yea ok SD... Says she has a fear of flying yet is on an airplane more than the average person. Not recalling key details to me either means she’s got early stage Alzheimer’s or is lying. If you believe what her ex-boyfriend has said, she is lying. Can I say 100% she is lying, no. But you can’t say the same about Kavanaugh either.
Ah, just searched backwards and found this link:
https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5bb26190e4b027da00d61fcd
I guess I would have seen it if not for the constant out-order posts, due to some sort of moderation going on...
Yup... I definitely believe “the Swiss cheese”. Kanavaugh was lying so much, it was phantasmagoric. Victims, of a sexual assault, that occurred long ago, usually can remember details of the actual attack. I have personal experience with this. The victim remembers what happened to her, in detail. The trauma is so significant that the victim can have a hard time recalling trivial things, like exact date, time, weather, etc. The victim is so scared during the heinous behavior, they are not focusing on little things. She didn’t try and filibuster, like Kavanaugh did. I loved watching Kanavaugh get all flustered when asked if he’d be okay with an investigation. The only thing Kanavaugh didn’t have to fake was his narcissism, regarding his school and sports or his anger about getting questioned. He’s just an angry person, in general. I saw him really lash out, a couple of weeks ago, when one of the representatives went to shake his hand and congratulated him on the nomination. Kavanaugh had evil in his eyes. Some folks are better than others, when it comes to spotting an equivocator.
Once again, Trump steps in doo doo, getting another Supreme Court pick. Now, we just wait for the stench of it. For all the evil things that Trump has done, all the people he’s hurt with loopholes, bankruptcies, women he cheated on, and even current disasters killing thousands, he keeps getting a break. Dumb luck, for the richest piece of trash I know. And I thought “ Dubya “ was bad....OMG...SMH.
Enjoy your swiss cheese then... Her best friend couldn't even remember being at a party with Kavanaugh. You just want to believe the story because you're a Trump hater.
"Kanavaugh was lying so much, it was phantasmagoric"
Can you provide proof of his lies?
"The trauma is so significant that the victim can have a hard time recalling trivial things, like exact date, time, weather, etc. The victim is so scared during the heinous behavior, they are not focusing on little things."
And when recalling the events, said person is constantly changing her story and changing details?
"And I thought “ Dubya “ was bad....OMG...SMH."
Your bias is showing, might want to cover it up a bit.
"Minimizing a top 35% Yale degree says what exactly? I couldn’t accomplish that whether sober or drunk!"
For a person born into wealth and privilege and afforded all of the advantages that come with that, including an exclusive secondary school education... maintaining a B average while matriculating to a BA degree in History? I'm not overly impressed... no.
Darrin has really gone above and beyond to show us why women may hesitate or never report things like this.
"If this even actually happened, they were teenagers fooling around.....this world is turning into a bunch of whining losers it makes me sick." Basically saying victims are whining losers.
"And again....according to her accusations he didn't rape her, he didn't even take her clothes off...according to the testimony...he apparently tried and that was it" Completely downplaying attempted rape.
And nobody except SD calls him out for these comments. But no you guys go on about how it makes no sense that she didn't report it or tell anybody.
It's hard to believe her because there are a lot of missing facts. I'd be more inclined to believe someone who has a complete story and has people backing her... The problem with SD and others is they want to convict based on no evidence. That isn’t how it works. It appears the FBI report has come to the conclusion that there is no corroboration. Let the whining continue….
So did anyone else see Feinstein’s “body language” after reading the report? For your viewing pleasure...
https://youtu.be/z3kkRjfSx9U
Grassley is also (still/again) asking Ford’s lawyers for more records (that they claim support her position yet so far refuse to provide). Only this time he wants them to include ALL communications they had with Senate and staffers AS WELL AS communications with her “witnesses” and the other accusers.
Why, you may ask? Because it’s coming out that Leland Keyser is claiming that Monica McLean (the former FBI agent whom Ford assisted with her polygraph, and lives in Rehobeth DE where Ford claimed she wrote her letter to Feinstein unassisted, and who was present at the hearing) contacted her to try to have her change her testimony.
Long story short, we may be heading into criminal complaint territory (witness tampering) and Feinstein is feeling some heat (what else did the FBI report uncover?)
“And nobody except SD calls him out for these comments.”
Because no one was there. Because no one knows what happened, we only know one side of a story. Because what Darrin wrote could be just as plausible as any story. Because the right way to handle this is through the court system. Because the court of public opinion is, quite obviously, completely wrong, especially when that court is based on partisan identity politics.
Because we are living in the strangest times where the ability to reason by independent-minded people has been lost. Gone. Exterminated by brain-dead political worshiping.
Should ask these women who are getting in the face of the Senators, do they have the details for their attacks.... I would guess they do.
This is what I find hilarious... people are complaining Ford and Kavanaugh were not re-interviewed... They were on national television stating their sides. What else does the FBI need from them unless one of the witnesses revealed something new? They grilled all the main people. Nothing. Case closed. It's like the Dems are trying to squeeze water from a stone.
I stand corrected ianimal, i had read several articles that stated he was 1st, but i now understand that Yale law school doesn't rank their students, so thanks for that one.
JFK must be rolling over in his grave given how low the Democratic party of today has fallen, 'advise and consent' has been turned into 'search and destroy' by these loons.
And it's taking the wind out of their sails for a blue wave, polls are seeing a ground swell of Republican sentiment, the Dems have clearly overplayed their hand and it's gonna hurt them bad at the ballot box this November.
I'm still sticking with my prediction that Kavanuah gets confirmed 54 - 46. Any one care to hazard their best guess on the voting? Is there a betting line in Vegas on this one?
You completely missed his point. He said, "If this even actually happened, they were teenagers fooling around.....this world is turning into a bunch of whining losers it makes me sick."
So he's basically saying, hypothetically, if two men force a young girl into a room, prevent her from leaving, hold her down and attempt to take off her clothes, and cover her mouth when she tries to yell for help, they were teenagers fooling around. And also she's a whiny loser.
Mark --- OMG you are right.... It was a Mulligan take back... Because of the flag on the play, I had time to listen again and found it much worse the second time. This is not a man angry, this is a repressed rant of revenge complete with alt-right conspiracy theory. The part that really struck home is how many cases that this man will have to recuse himself on because of this rant. Yes, I 180'd and changed my mind.
And his WSJ article seems to indicate that he too, while not apologetic, knows he went way over the line.
Feinstein crying: Is that your some-kind-of defense for the earlier Kanavaugh episode? IMO -- there's no crying in Congress..... Kav, Bohner, Ryna, or Feinstein. We need Spartacus!
It's too bad that your Senators aren't able to be Senators and ask Senatorial questions in a Senate hearing choosing to hide behind the skirt until they pulled her off the mound for the second inning with the Democrats.
It's too bad that you decided you choose a nominee by precluding and burying 90% of his written record.
It's too bad that you opted for a expanded, yet limited, ultimately even abbreviated from it's very short time target, opaque investigation rather than a short, transparent, open investigation. You didn't even dare release the governance model for the investigation; that's police state stuff.
We had a moment, a moment where we could have worked together for a common goal of discovering the truth, the whole truth. We were heading to agreement in a process that would have determined who is lying. Instead, well, looks like you will get your revenge by selecting the most partisan, ranting, raving, supreme court justice ever who promises pure justice unless he's stressed out. It's the stuff that compromise is made of.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/read-the-executive-summary-of-the-fbis-supplemental-investigation-into-kavanaugh-allegations
So according to this, ALL people who were mentioned as having FIRSTHAND knowledge were interviewed. That is a thorough investigation I'm sorry. If none of those people give you any info, then what good does it do to interview others? the Dems are idiots... They'll do anything to regain power...
How I think we can prevent this in the future - I would like to know your thoughts.
1. President selects nominee
2. FBI does background check a real one - SSBI with lifestyle poly.
3. Open period for congress to review and and develop list of questions and concerns.
4. NOW Congress can interview to advise purely on professional record
In other words, do a character background first, open to input, but without a public lynching.
Once complete close that and move to qualification review which is much more pertinent anyway.
OK w me Skippy, skip the poly, and still not that simple. First, the President should be forced to use advise before he makes his selection. While some have used this, others --- like Trump --- not only avoid it, but get "advise" from their own partisan think tanks --- not even from their own Congress....
Second, need to add special process for "allegations" where background check can be reopened, process can be taken off-line, and "allegations" can be brought to ground.
Third, if we are to continue to ask invasive questions, we may want to evaluate doing the entire interview process off-line. Kill the camera's to avoid the mob rule and airing of ugly secrets that should have been kept secret. With 22 Senators, 1/4 of the body, half from each party, I really doubt that closed doors means lack of transparency. Especially if transcripts are released.
Bring back the supermajority for Federal and SCOTUS judges. Forces any party to the middle where our judges should be anyway. The only zealotry we want to see is to the Constitution and the country.
"the Dems are idiots... They'll do anything to regain power..." You are right. I am so tired of the elitist status quo ole politicians that are in office. We need to drain the swamp of Schumer, Pelosi, Grassley, Turtle-boy McConnell, Young, and Hatch. And then drain the new entitlement spoiled rich-kid worse-than-the-swamp cabal of Trump, Kushner, Pritzker, Ross, DeVos, McMahon, and Munchkin.
The best part of Kavanaugh is that Mueller can work uninfringed for awhile.
I wonder where the NYTimes got 100,000 pages of Trump financial material....
"Here is what can be said with certainty: Had Mr. Trump done nothing but invest the money his father gave him in an index fund that tracks the Standard & Poor’s 500, he would be worth $1.96 billion today. As for that $1 million loan, Fred Trump actually lent him at least $60.7 million, or $140 million in today’s dollars, The Times found."
It's a beautiful con when the con man looks you right in the eye and says "I am a con man," and you say, "give me more, I love it."
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/10/02/us/politics/donald-trump-tax-schemes-fred-trump.html
"The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Friday shows that 51% of Likely U.S. Voters approve of President Trump’s job performance."
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/political_updates/prez_track_oct05
This bodes well for the midterms.
Susan Collins is a class act. I could have done without the 50 minute lead-in, but I must admit it was thorough and I learned a few things from it.
"If turtle boy McConnell would just stop talking, I would support Kavanaugh."
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA yeah, he is!
LOL I just saw this meme online and immediately thought of this thread.
Life is short Make sure you spend as much time as possible on the Internet arguing with strangers about politics.
Holy spot on Batman.... LMAO!!
Greg Why do so many people on this forum try to be comedians? Serious issues require serious contemplation and comments. Anything less is not a joke.
Sickening how people are tearing Collins apart. Her speech was very common sense oriented. People have lost their minds... I can't wait until Trump replaces Ginsberg and possibly Breyer. Both are in their 80's. The Left will go completely insane... Sotomayer and Kegan will be the only liberals left on the court.
“Sickening how people are tearing Collins apart.”
That’s because the complaints have nothing to do with her: she just happened to get in the way of the outcome others wanted. Remember, the ends always justify the means regardless who gets stepped on.
Speaking of which, have any formal charges been filed against Kavanaugh yet so that a real investigation can happen and the accusers can get the justification they are due?
"Life is short Make sure you spend as much time as possible on the Internet arguing with strangers about politics." Hmmmmmm, Strangerdanger…..I wonder :>)
JIT: my question all along indeed. I would think if it were gonna happen, it would have to happen before 5 pm today....or sooner. At least if she was a Democratic operative backed by Democratic dollars. And/or if she had a cause. There is some fogginess about limitations statute or whether appropriate assault charges with no statute of limitations can be filed.
But this knife cuts two ways --- have any formal charges been filed against Ford yet so that a real investigation can happen and the accusers can get the justification they are due? I mean if Kavanaugh sits on the bench, then she must have perjured herself under oath to Congress, right?
Law and Order, right? My guess is that Grassley is just too old to find his balls to do this one. Congress is better at baying at the moon than actually doing anything about it. I mean here it is, Grassley's and Graham Cracker's chance to end this chicanery foisted upon us by feckless females ruining reputations of these massive men on a feminine fancy. Come on Lyndsey, attractive alliteration aside, take her down. Take her down hard now and send a male message to the others looking to get even for High School antics against fine, fun-loving, upstanding, gropers everywhere. Groper for President in 2020.
PS --- My, this crow is tasty! Scarred you though, didn't we :>) Well, we'll always have Russia.
"Speaking of which, have any formal charges been filed against Kavanaugh yet so that a real investigation can happen and the accusers can get the justification (??) they are due?" Are you suggesting this entire democrat backed and organized attack was anything but a witch hunt orchestrated to burn at the stake whomever was nominated. (wonder what they would have done if the nominee was a woman) Formal charges?? seriously, do you think any law enforcement or prosecutor would bring charges based on a total lack or any credible evidence whatsoever, hearsay and the bs of kook brought forth by a Trump hating lawyer? Why the hell do you think no charges were ever brought before? Because this was all a hitjob staged entirely for the political stage and the dimms are shocked it failed and now don't know whether to s*** or go blind so they just continue their mindless attacks. This whole sorry affair will backfire against them come November 6th.
Collins:
“Some of the allegations levied against Judge Kavanaugh illustrate why the presumption of innocence is so important. I am thinking in particular not of the allegations raised by Professor Ford, but of the allegation that, when he was a teenager, Judge Kavanaugh drugged multiple girls and used their weakened state to facilitate gang rape.
This outlandish allegation was put forth without any credible supporting evidence and simply parroted public statements of others. That such an allegation can find its way into the Supreme Court confirmation process is a stark reminder about why the presumption of innocence is so ingrained in our American consciousness”
Wow. There are people in power that do remember that the entire basis of our justice system is innocent until proven guilty. I’m amazed!
There is a simple solution to this. Just bring back the 60 vote majority for confirmation. The Dems under Obama started the 50 vote for the lower courts, then the Reps under Trump decided they could do it with the Supreme Court. 60 votes takes the politics out of the confirmation process.There would have to be a fairly moderate candidate to be confirmed by members of both parties. But this will never happen now because of this crazy partisanship. Only solution is to vote all these idiots out of office.
YES!! The Kavanagh confirmation is a victory for the sober republicans, and a crushing defeat for the loudmouth (drunk? paid?) democrats who tried to disrupt the Senate hearing even after the vote was taken. Now the supreme court may be able to function normally, and there are many important issues to address.
Saw that Pelosi has vowed to get a hold of FBI documents... These people love to rile up their base with bullsh*t... There's nothing to be found. The main witnesses couldn't corroborate anything and Kavanaugh and Ford both gave testimonies. The Dems even if they get control would need 2/3 vote to impeach the guy. It isn't happening.
"There are people in power that do remember that the entire basis of our justice system is innocent until proven guilty." Yes. Too bad they didn't realize this was advise and consent and not court.....
Indy --- 100% concur on both. Dems should have never started it.
Crushing defeat? Shocked at it failed" You are kidding, right? The only surprise here was that it made Trumpets wake up for the election. But that would have happened too once the King got on his dog whistles.
"These people love to rile up their base with bullsh*t..." Yeah, right, we're the leaders in this all righty.
Hey, and you got to say Pelosi three times......you know that will just make her come back, don't you.
“Pelosi has vowed to get a hold of FBI documents”
“There's nothing to be found.”
Good. Let her file the FOIA request. Wonder if Feinstein will oppose it... there *was* something in the report that darn near brought her to tears... I don’t think just a “lack” of corroborating information would do that. Did somebody have info on the leak maybe?
https://youtu.be/z3kkRjfSx9U
SD so any time a person comes forward in a nomination process with the senate with baseless accusations they should automatically disqualify someone? Sorry that isn't how our country works. I don't care if the nominee is liberal or conservative. You just can't pull BS like this in the United States of America without due process...
“Yes. Too bad they didn't realize this was advise and consent and not court.....”
Exactly, thanks for confirming that this was a circus, plain and simple.
I voted for Trump primarily over the Supreme Court appointments and here we get two in the first term. Amazing !!!
Pelosi is wacked. Her side is the ones that turned this confirmation into a circus...
"SD so any time a person comes forward in a nomination process with the senate with baseless accusations they should automatically disqualify someone? Sorry that isn't how our country works. I don't care if the nominee is liberal or conservative. You just can't pull BS like this in the United States of America without due process..."
If your side had any balls whatsoever, they would indict her for perjury over "baseless accusations" made under oath to Congress. That's the way to stop the "circus" as JIT likes to call it. But we know McConnell's shriveled up and Ryan's ascended upon his ascent to the speakership. So come on, call for it, write your Senator...… :>)
Of course JIT, the supermajority reinstatement would end the circus too. But hey, you guys don't want process to get in your way now do you?
Hey, as the game is played, we lost, according to the rules. So be it. Let's move on and let the healing begin. The Trump Ford imitations, the Graham Cracker "I think the roles were reversed: The slut whore drunk was Kavanaugh," all intended to bring us together by demeaning the losers so well. Good thing you taught me that it's our fault, we started it...…
Although I think this :>) says it all: https://politics.theonion.com/chuck-grassley-scratches-christine-blasey-s-a-slut-in-1829460008
We get it Chuck. We must lift ourselves up by putting others down. We get it. Build those walls. MAGA. Or at least, your A.
"Her side is the ones that turned this confirmation into a circus..." Well, if we give you the rule, we give you the process, seems a weak tea that you couldn't control anything except how to constrain the background check.
The Democrats are fomenting violence and mob behavior and it's wrong. Think about this...
Republican Senator Rand Paul's wife, Kelley Paul, writes an open letter to Democrat Senator Cory Booker about how her family has received intimidation and threats due to his, and the Democrat Party's, calls for violence:
An open letter to Senator Cory Booker:
It's nine o'clock at night, and as I watch out the window, a sheriff's car slowly drives past my home. I am grateful that they have offered to do extra patrols, as someone just posted our home address, and Rand's cell number, on the internet -- all part of a broader effort to intimidate and threaten Republican members of Congress and their families.
I now keep a loaded gun by my bed. Our security systems have had to be expanded. I have never felt this way in my life.
In the last 18 months, our family has experienced violence and threats of violence at a horrifying level. I will never forget the morning of the shooting at the congressional baseball practice, the pure relief and gratitude that flooded me when I realized that Rand was okay.
He was not okay last November, when a violent and unstable man attacked him from behind while he was working in our yard, breaking six ribs and leaving him with lung damage and multiple bouts of pneumonia. Kentucky's secretary of state, Alison Lundergan Grimes, recently joked about it in a speech. MSNBC commentator Kasie Hunt laughingly said on air that Rand's assault was one of her "favorite stories." Cher, Bette Midler, and others have lauded his attacker on Twitter. I hope that these women never have to watch someone they love struggle to move or even breathe for months on end.
Earlier this week, Rand was besieged in the airport by activists "getting up in his face," as you, Senator Booker, encouraged them to do a few months ago. Preventing someone from moving forward, thrusting your middle finger in their face, screaming vitriol -- is this the way to express concern or enact change? Or does it only incite unstable people to violence, making them feel that assaulting a person is somehow politically justifiable?
Senator Booker, Rand has worked with you to co-sponsor criminal justice reform bills. He respects you, and so do I. I would call on you to retract your statement. I would call on you to condemn violence, the leaking of elected officials' personal addresses (our address was leaked from a Senate directory given only to senators), and the intimidation and threats that are being hurled at them and their families.
Sincerely,
Kelley Paul
Sorry, gotta ;)
Stymie (on Kavanaugh NOT being confirmed):
“B-bye frat boy.” 9/25/2018
No worries
Please note:
Mr. “ Honest Abe” Kavanaugh TESTIFIED that
Roe v Wade was settled law.
Let’s see how that pans out....
Supreme Court now relegated to the status of Municipal Road Dept.
Can’t wait to see tRUMPS taxes.
Soon.....
Battles will continue.
Kelley Paul's letter to Cory Booker says it all about the state of the Democratic Party in recent times. Confronting people while their out to dinner with family, intimidation tactics at Airports in the halls of Congress. Releasing home addresses, personal cellphone numbers, etc. None of the leaders of the Democratic Party are calling for these tacics to stop but are actually encouraging it, unreal.
I've heard that now a days, the only reason the Suprime court nominees are so important is that Congress hasn't made any major decisions in years and everything ends up in court. WE NEED TO VOTE ALL THESE FAT CATS OUT..........
Agreed Indy. Congress is finally working and earning their keep. Something I haven't seen in over 40 yrs. The work they are doing is to get Trump out of office. What a waist. If they were to spend that much energy working for the American citizen as they were elected to do, we as a Nation would be better off. And maybe just maybe we would all get along and it's citizens could live in harmony.
Kavanaugh will be busy as an Associate Justice.
Already has his first few cases lined up...
https://archive.fo/WzrgC
Soros makes his money by destabilizing countries and shorting their currency. That's how he made his billions. That's open information. How long are we going to allow someone to continue funding the destabilization of the United States.
The US dollar is his coveted short. It's his life goal to ruin us at a profit.
It's incredible to me, I guess it shouldn't be with a worldwide liberal media & worldwide normalcy bias run amok, that so few people actually know what Soros is all about, hell I'll bet most people have never even heard of him, yet he is a very large puppet master behind so much that is going on in recent times.
"Mr. Soros, much like the Koch brothers, funds causes he cares about. There’s nothing wrong with that, but democracy is better served if we follow the money on the right and left and find solutions where they are likeliest to lie: in the middle."
Hmmmmm - liberal causes - Soros, Koch bros -hmmm opposite ---
One's bad, one's good?? interesting pov
JR. I would guess perhaps 1 of 100 people know who George Soros is and what he's about and I think he's probably the single most dangerous person in the country. Is he going to go out shoot personally someone, no, but he's a guy who hates this country and has given some 18 billion - that's b for billion of his 25 billion personal fortune to subversive causes - his money is behind most of the chaos happening today. How the hell he keeps his citizenship (dual U.S. and Hungarian) is astounding - I imagine he owns most of the dem politicos and swamp creatures in justice and state. There was a petition out there to revoke his citizenship some time back but was probably squelched by the left wing social media types. At least he's 88 years old and hopefully will croak soon.
“One's bad, one's good?”
Don’t recall anyone writing that.
Both are equally invasive in areas they shouldn’t have any influence imo.
I would agree with that, jit - would love to see all big money out of politics - not likely tho
Not with this Supreme Court...…
Soros/Koch Bro's, the individual, give away, right up to the limits. Soros/Koch the "organization," yeah, let's get organizations out of funding --- they have no human souls --- just like the NRA, ACLU, etc. Change the financing laws to remove organizational funding and unlimited funding of any kind to org's like SuperPacs.
Meanwhile --- Soro's destabilizes US? That's a new one. No sources on that huh.....???
@SD "No sources on that huh"
This coming from the guy who makes up stuff and posts it as fact, and then continually ignores other's asking him from sources ALL THE TIME!!!!!!
You should be quite embarrassed how the dems treated Mrs. Ford....they exploited her to attempt to meet their political agenda, and if it was anyone that didn't care about her, it was the dems themselves, who just used her and then disposed of her when that tactic didn't work......your cards have been shown
strangerdanger - How could you not know that shorting currencies for profits on a massive scale, as Soros does, destabilizes economies, which is part of the process and his strategy...uninformed, naïve or just plain stupid?
I do realize the potential, just not "Soros makes his money by destabilizing countries and shorting their currency. That's how he made his billions. That's open information. How long are we going to allow someone to continue funding the destabilization of the United States. The US dollar is his coveted short. It's his life goal to ruin us at a profit."
It's funny that you pick on Soros' manner of making money but just close your eyes to King Don's affairs of business. (See NYTimes info above....all over)
Skippy seems to be drawing a linkage between currency speculation and US politics. Plus, I did not realize the facts led to Soros speculating in US dollars to the point of destabilizing the United States. Apparently you and Skippy have this one locked down, but are unable to source.
England, his fabled currency short in the 90's, is still there last time I checked. "Although it was a bitter pill to swallow, the pound came back stronger because the excess interest and high inflation were forced out of the British economy following the beating."
https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/08/george-soros-bank-of-england.asp
Not that I favor the hedge man or hedge activities, but sometimes these things point out financial weaknesses, in awful, painful, glaring manners, speeding up the inevitable. I believe Soros dropped a Billion on his Trump/US Stock Market
speculation; that was just 2017......
That is because Soros wrongfully speculated that Trump's programs would tank the markets. He was very wrong and exactly the opposite happened. Too bad Soros can still afford such a loss. Soros is one very bad man who thrives on others' pain.
And King Don isn’t worse? Hasn’t he been the guy leading the “but it’s legal” defense?
How many tax dollars has he stolen? How many different States has he robbe?
How many tenants has he caused pain because of their skin color?
How much pain did he cause NJ and the US over his Atlantic City takeover?
Give me a break; Soros is an angel next to your King.
Give me a break...Soros has unmercifully inflicted pain for profit GLOBALLY far more extensively than Trump. He can...he is richer.
Advocating killing a SCOTUS judge.... she needs a visit from the Secret Service.
Other democrats need to get on her @ss and tell her people LIKE HER is why the democrat party is in the shape it's in, and is losing it's mind. Only the democrats can save their party... but they just keep punching holes in the hull....
#WalkAway
“Once upon a time, I was a liberal,” Straka says in the six-minute video, looking directly toward the camera. “For years now, I have watched as the left has devolved into intolerant, inflexible, illogical, hateful, misguided, ill-informed, un-American, hypocritical, menacing, callous, ignorant, narrow-minded and, at times, blatantly fascistic behavior and rhetoric.”
https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/meet-brandon-straka-gay-former-liberal-encouraging-others-walkaway-democrats-n902316
March on DC Oct 26-27
“And King Don isn’t worse? Hasn’t he been the guy leading the “but it’s legal” defense?”
Nope, not worse but the same. Legal is legal, and every rich person works to maximize their profits. He’s a bigger jerk, sure, but business wise just the same.
“How many tax dollars has he stolen? How many different States has he robbe?”
None if it’s done legally.
“How many tenants has he caused pain because of their skin color?@
BS unless you can prove it. That’s just kitchen sink stuff to get folks worked up.
“How much pain did he cause NJ and the US over his Atlantic City takeover?”
Done legally it not?
“Give me a break; Soros is an angel next to your King.”
Thanks for the laugh!
Btw, if our representatives worked to remove the legal loop holes you’re complaining about wouldn’t that help? Assuming you agree then why hasn’t it been done yet? Can you say Republicrats? ;-)
(reads 9,000 pieces of evidence detailing the ways Trump is mixed up with Russian interests) - that doesn't mean nothing... purely circumstantial... speculation... liberal spin.
(reads unsubstantiated conspiracy theories regarding George Soros on right-wing propaganda sites) - SEE... this guy's the anti-Christ and is trying to ruin America... that's a FACT... and anyone who doesn't believe that is naive, delusional, or a libtard...
Fascinating times we find ourselves in...
ianimal - For once I agree with you. Soros is "the anti-Christ and is trying to ruin America... that's a FACT... and anyone who doesn't believe that is naive, delusional, or a libtard..." Well said, man.
“reads 9,000 pieces of evidence detailing the ways Trump is mixed up with Russian interests”
Except that NOT what has been being said. Russian *collusion* is the disputed point Ian, not the other stuff. But you know that and I’m once again finding myself surprised at a comment of yours.
“reads unsubstantiated conspiracy theories regarding George Soros on right-wing propaganda sites”
Yeah, there’s a lot of ridiculousness out there. But his involvement in a lot of geopolitical activities does make for some good story telling, and there’s little doubt about his influence in a great many things. Unless you’re saying he’s not in a powerful and influential position?
"None if it’s done legally." Apparently someone has not been keeping up with their NYTimes reading..... It's all alleged, backed up by some pretty hot Trump, as in written by Team Trump, documentation this time.... Think we are up to 5 States following up with investigations.
"BS unless you can prove it." Apparently someone has not been keeping up with their NYTimes reading: "The Justice Department undertook its own investigation and, in 1973, sued Trump Management for discriminating against blacks. Both Fred Trump, the company’s chairman, and Donald Trump, its president, were named as defendants. It was front-page news, and for Donald, amounted to his debut in the public eye." "The judge dismissed both the countersuit and the contempt-of-court charge. After nearly two years of legal wrangling, the Trumps gave up and signed a consent decree. As is customary, it did not include an admission of guilt. But it did include pages of stipulations intended to ensure the desegregation of Trump properties."
"It required that Trump Management provide the New York Urban League with a weekly list of all its vacancies."
"A few years later, the government accused the Trumps of violating the consent decree. “We believe that an underlying pattern of discrimination continues to exist in the Trump Management organization,” a Justice Department lawyer wrote to Mr. Cohn in 1978." You remember Roy Cohn, right....McCarthy hearings.....
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/28/us/politics/donald-trump-housing-race.html
In 1992, the Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino paid a $200K fine for moving blacks and women dealers as a favor to their gambler’s prejudices."
"Done legally it not?" I am sorry. Is legal pain better than illegal pain? What silly concepts you have at 30K feet of theoretical. And yes, loopholes, Republicrats, etc. --- you finally have a winner with your fetish political party.
Both men have used the system. One might argue that Soros is expediting the pain that would happen over time anyway. He is only pinpointing and accelerating what would be a natural effect over time. Trump, on the other hand, just likes the pain of getting ahead at others expense. IMO.
Except DannyC has not even a link to support his suppositions which, amazingly, his new hero Kavanaugh thinks are boofing materials :>)
More important, neither DannyC, Skippy, and now JIT have shown any evidence that Soros ever manipulated the US dollar. Just spin so far boys, you gotta come up with a link at least.
Evidence? What evidence? Still waiting for "evidence" instead of conjecture (on the russia collusion thing.) Interesting what you apparently choose to call "evidence", Ian. But then that puts you right in with the current times; see: Kavanaugh hearings LOL
I guess the libs can go back to Russia Russia Russia now that they've lost the SCOTUS battle.
I'm still waiting to see if they have an October surprise up their sleeves, or if Kavanaugh WAS the October surprise... they only have about another week or so to effectively spring another one, if they have one...
SD, I only made one comment about Soros, and it was nothing like what you just attributed to me.
And yet you’ll still wonder why you see things differently: it’s because you see what you want to see, with the presumption that yours is the only way to see it. Shades of gray rule my friend.
"Interesting what you apparently choose to call "evidence", Ian. But then that puts you right in with the current times; see: Kavanaugh hearings LOL"
Everything is "evidence". Exactly what it is evidence OF is always a matter for discussion. I'm not advocating for or against either Trump's or Soros's innocence or guilt in any specific matter or overall malevolence.
My point is that your "sensitivity" for believing "evidence" against Trump is at about an order of 10^6, while your standard for "evidence" of Soros's evil deeds are about 10^-12.... i.e., nothing short of Trump coming up and confessing to you personally is ever going to convince you and you ALREADY believe any crackpot conspiracy theory attributed to Soros, even if you haven't read it yet.
"It's incredible to me, I guess it shouldn't be with a worldwide liberal media & worldwide normalcy bias run amok, that so few people actually know what Soros is all about, hell I'll bet most people have never even heard of him, yet he is a very large puppet master behind so much that is going on in recent times."
Please provide incontrovertible proof of this statement... or admit that you're no different from those on the left who make wild accusations without proof.
JR -- see above....many times. Many sources. Many countries he's done it in. There are so many instances of Russia money being funneled into Trump properties it's pathetic. There's Russian investments, there's Russian purchases, there's Russian rentals, there's Russian memberships, you name it. Most are oligarchs; many are criminals, a number have have killed.....
Trump Toronto --- Russian
Trump SOHO ---- Russian
I would keep going, but you can read up to catch up.
But I know, you will next say what's wrong with dealing with other countries. Except when they are criminals looking to launder funds and you choose to look the other way because you are too greedy to do due diligence.. DBank did the same thing, took $10B of their money too and paid $630M in laundering penalties when due diligence was done. Heck Trump's Ross even worked as the Cypress Bank VP, his associate was a Russian killer and they have been chasing laundered funds at Cypress Bank for decades now. Won't catch Ross; he was just a whore hired to make the bank look more legit.
Give me a break. Just read.
TY JIT. Now I understand so much better who I am due to your insights. Thank God you are here to judge us. "I only made one comment about Soros, and it was nothing like what you just attributed to me." Really, because a I thought I was quoting you on Soros:
"He’s a bigger jerk, sure, but business wise just the same." Bigger jerk than who? Could you mean...…….Soros?
But his involvement in a lot of geopolitical activities does make for some good story telling, and there’s little doubt about his influence in a great many things." Hmm, you only mentioned once, so is this not Soros? And hey, where's the allegedly…...oh yeah, forgot, it's JITsofactso.
Ever notice how when someone says "my friend," they aren't...….
"Thanks for the laugh!" Wait....were you laughing at......could you mean.....Soros.....
Three on a match. Good luck.
Accusations without proof? About Soros? I'll tell you what: you give me incontrovertable proof that Trump colluded with the russians to win the election, and I'll do the same for Soros' activities. That way, NEITHER of us will be doing what you claim ;)
But we both know you're just being silly, you're smarter than that, you know how this stuff works. Just another in a long line of Ian's "gotcha!" moments, which really are the only moments you seem to have around here anymore. Incontrovertible proof of 90% of what is discussed in this thread isn't available... it might exist, it might not... but no one's produced it yet.
I can't wait to accuse the next dem presidential nominee or SCOTUS nominee with a pedophilia accusation; after all, it'll be my word against theirs, right? NO EVIDENCE OR PROOF NEEDED. And especially not "incontrovertible" proof!
As for Trump, I stand by my claim: there is no evidence linking him to "russia collusion", if there were, we would have it by now. Unless the dems release it in november as their "surprise", that ship has sailed. You can keep waiting for it to re-port all you want, but it's gone.
Yes, I'm smarter than that, I know how this works... and you're a hypocrite who pontificates on how you're above all of it, how you've "moved on from the Republicrat duopoly" and how you're fed up with partisan politics... when the simple fact of the matter is that you're still just a partisan hack on the extreme right-side of the Republicrat coin.
Embrace it. Quit trying to be the person you think you should be and accept yourself for whom you are.
Kavan-AUGH YEAH
Atta boy Donny, keep racking up those supreme court justices. Abortion for any reason, at any time, will be illegal in no time. People have a God given right to be born once they are in their mommy's womb, don't they? Back to sanity. MAGA!
The left can keep rolling out the celebs all they want. It's firing up the right way more than the left anyway. Stephen King? that old drunk...don't make me laugh. Amy Schumer getting arrested only after a cop asked her if she wanted to? LMAO. Oh no Taylor Swift is now endorsing candidates? The MSM is fully apoplectic and it's hilarious.
SD and Ian - if you don’t want to believe that both soros and the Koch brothers are not Bond villains - that’s on you. This is the real cause of division and influence on elections. All of the information is readily available. I’m not proposing anything strange or unusual.
So, Soros is Goldfinger, the Koch brothers are Jack and Sarafimmo Spang... I guess that makes Trump The Manchurian Candidate, lol... as long as life imitates bad 1960s/1970s cinema.
Hey JIT.... you'll appreciate this!!!
Truth in advertising:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxQbV0VfJ4o
Skippy :
"SD and Ian - if you don’t want to believe that both soros and the Koch brothers are not Bond villains - that’s on you. This is the real cause of division and influence on elections. All of the information is readily available. I’m not proposing anything strange or unusual."
EXACTLY.
Ian:
"Yes, I'm smarter than that, "
Well, I could be wrong.... and I'm certainly beginning to question that particular opinion.
Ian:
"I know how this works... and you're a hypocrite who pontificates on how you're above all of it, how you've "moved on from the Republicrat duopoly" and how you're fed up with partisan politics... when the simple fact of the matter is that you're still just a partisan hack on the extreme right-side of the Republicrat coin. "
Now who's pontificating LOL.
At this point in history, the right side of the Republicrats' two identities is more reasonable, with the left side more hysterical. Especially on the Russia & Kavanaugh issues. So yes, right NOW, I'm agreeing with the right more. But let's wait until the left is back in power (2020? 2024?) and see how things change.... I have stated in this thread things the right has done I do not agree with. I am no longer a "card carrying" republican. Believe it or don't- it's of no matter to me. But I have illustrated in recent years, if you've been paying attention- and without your confirmation bias clouding your thinking- that I'm almost as fed up with the republicans as I am the democrats. And I'd say alot of republicans feel the same way, or someone as unlikely as Trump would not have gotten elected.
And for the record, I'm not "above" it all, I just finally see it all for what it actually is (see the video in post directly above). I thought you had reached that point too. Apparently I was wrong. Carry on.
JR is right about this. The loons and nut jobs on the left are more hysterical right now. This is from a google executive:
"Google UX design lead Dave Hogue wasn't happy about Justice Brett Kavanaugh's confirmation to the Supreme Court on Sunday. He took to Twitter to express himself. And he did so in the most classless of ways. Thankfully though, everything that's ever posted on the Internet lives on...forever.
“You are finished, @GOP. You polished the final nail for your own coffins. F--K. YOU. ALL. TO. HELL,” Dave Hogue wrote on Saturday. “I hope the last images burned into your slimy, evil, treasonous retinas are millions of women laughing and clapping and celebrating as your souls descend into the flames."
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/bethbaumann/2018/10/08/google-exec-loses-it-over-kavanaugh-confirmation-fk-you-all-to-hell-n2526664?utm_source=thdaily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=nl&newsletterad=&bcid=d44cbf48eb313ab34cc5fb772ab63232&recip=21095195
If you think this type of uncontrolled, viciously angry vitriol doesn't affect the way this guy manages his part of the google empire you are sadly mistaken. Google is top heavy with left leaning partisan hacks and it absolutely affects the way they do business.
The unbridled hatred and out of control angry vicious reactions from the left continue unabated by reason, common sense and any shred of human decency:
""Whatever happens, I'm just glad we ruined Brett Kavanaugh's life" (quote from Ariel Dumas)
In a social media post on Saturday, a writer for CBS's "The Late Show with Stephen Colbert" seemingly celebrated the damage done to Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh's reputation during his bruising and bitterly partisan confirmation battle.
"Whatever happens, I'm just glad we ruined Brett Kavanaugh's life" , the writer, Ariel Dumas, posted on Twitter.
https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/stephen-colbert-late-show-writer-im-just-glad-we-ruined-brett-kavanaughs-life
"At this point in history, the right side of the Republicrats' two identities is more reasonable, with the left side more hysterical."
So if Obama had gone out of his way to praise everything Russian and denigrate America's law enforcement agencies and intelligence services, then you would have leaned left? LOL, sure... face it, you're a toadie for the Republican party. No matter what they do... you will ALWAYS find it more reasonable than the left.
And, your self-promotional back-patting statements to the contrary, you obviously have no clue about the nature of the Republicrats. The right side isn't more reasonable; it's specifically geared to pander to right-wing nut jobs, just as the left side is specifically geared to pander to the left-wing nut jobs. Which side you agree with is predicated upon your own internal bias. It's all a dog and pony show and you're still being distracted by the shiny objects they dangle in front of you.
Keep working on it... eventually the clouds will lift and you'll realize that Trump is a scumbag, even though the Democrats think so, too. Some truths are universal and transcend party lines. Hillary is also a scumbag. I've tried to imagine what this country would be like if she had been elected; I don't imagine it being any better, certainly. I can't believe it would be much worse, either. Republicrats.It just doesn't matter...
" face it, you're a toadie for the Republican party. No matter what they do... you will ALWAYS find it more reasonable than the left."
Not true... you want to discuss social issues? Gay marriage perhaps?
Or how about unending wars that can't be won?
the Patriot Act?
I'm all ears, let's go....
ianimal did you even pay attention to the Peter Strzok and Lisa Page nonsensical texts? The FBI tarnished it's own reputation. As far as police across the nation, Trump has praised them. Right now the Republicans are showing more class than the Democrats.
Oh and lets not forget about Comey who thinks it's ok to leak classified info and grandstand saying Hillary shouldn't be prosecuted when it isn't up to him to say such a thing... Getting rid of Comey and Strzok was definitely a GOOD thing for the FBI.
"Not true... you want to discuss social issues? Gay marriage perhaps?"
No thanks, I already have a wife. I'm flattered, though (-;
Kidding aside, I would probably enjoy discussing whatever with you in person, although it probably won't ever happen with my schedule (and I'm sure yours is plenty booked as well). I just don't have the time on my hands that some people do to sit and write lengthy arguments that have no real tangible benefit to me... my time is very dear these days. Hence, my occasional "one-off" comment when something strikes me as odd... otherwise, no thanks. You guys can have at it. Enjoy.
@ianimal "I just don't have the time on my hands that some people do to sit and write lengthy arguments that have no real tangible benefit to me"
.......yet, here you are.......
"This is the real cause of division and influence on elections. All of the information is readily available. I’m not proposing anything strange or unusual" The real cause.... And do you completely ignore, as does the Emperor, Russian meddling? SuperPacs, Pacs, Taylor Swift? You may laugh at the last one, but 65K new Tenn. voters in 24 hours of her announcement. TX gained as well.
So, "the real cause..." doubtful. That seems a bit factually unfounded but conspiratorially well done.
"EXACTLY." see. Proves it.
"And for the record, I'm not "above" it all, I just finally see it all for what it actually is" "Well, I could be wrong.... and I'm certainly beginning to question that particular opinion." " I thought you had reached that point too." "Apparently I was wrong." …"I was wrong." …"wrong."
New Trumpian scandals brewing: Trump recently met with Rosenstein, basically the acting Attorney General overseeing the investigation into Donald J. Trump, in an airplane, for just over 39 minutes, on the tarmac. Sound vaguely familiar? After the anal probe, presumably to check for wires, Don and Rob had a nice chat about their Grandchildren (Rob reminded Don that he has some) and then golf with absolutely nothing about collusion or Russians or nuttin, honey.... wink, wink, nudge, nudge. No, the rest of the conversation was about Hillary.
Next: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/08/us/politics/rick-gates-psy-group-trump.html "A top Trump campaign official requested proposals in 2016 from an Israeli company to create fake online identities, to use social media manipulation and to gather intelligence to help defeat Republican primary race opponents and Hillary Clinton,"
But wait, there's more:"Ex-GOP strategist says Mueller probing hack of personal email account: Report https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/oct/2/cheri-jacobus-former-gop-strategist-says-mueller-p/ Wow, now they're hacking their own folks.....
That's a lot to investigate. And it just keeps coming.
I think what ianimal is saying is that he doesn't have a half hour or hour at a time to put together long winded posts like SD.
"Taylor Swift? You may laugh at the last one, but 65K new Tenn. voters in 24 hours of her announcement."
I do laugh at it and I laugh at the left, who over and over again think celebrities are going to bring them the White House or Congress. They won't. Why don't you try championing issues that most Americans care about. Like jobs.
OMG I think Jim Carey just drew another mean picture of Trump - that'll get you votes for sure (NOT).
Ohhh, you always hurt the one you love. xoxoxoxo to Mets and Scottso although I see that Mets is already taken.
"Why don't you try championing issues that most Americans care about. Like jobs." Really ---- what's unemployment. like 3.7%, and yet you still are harping on jobs. Like if you still need a job, I don't think caring about it is really going to help now is it? I mean just think about all the jobs Trump has created:
- thousands of legal positions to defend the, I think, 4,000 active lawsuits, hundreds of federal cases filed since inauguration.
- hundreds of accounting positions to untangle his finances; I mean if this was easy, then the government would have finished at least one Trump audit.
- thousands of latino child care specialists --- must like Texas
- new TSA reps to determine Musliminity for incoming visitors
- 24x7 editing service tweet center specialists for correcting misspells on twitter in real time
- all of Trump's cabinet, DOJ, and FBI positions require one person ready-to-go in background mode for explosions, implosions, and "he's a @@@#@# idiot" moments. No experience needed. Loyalty oath required.
- exalted legal position for hush money bagman, must be able to work with sluts, law degree not required
- new campaign chair for 2020 election, actually entirely new campaign staff at this point, must speak Russian
- foreign ambassadors --- no experience needed; WAH possibilities
Now these new jobs must be balanced against the loses like the massive lay-offs for wall builders, infrastructure workers (we talk roads and airports, we fly AirForce 1 so we don't care), ObamaCare replacement staff, and EPA monitoring personnel -- nature can take care of itself; I mean what company would pollute; that would just mean a loss of customers....
-
Wow SD, you have really lost it. There are tons of business down here in NC looking for help. I was even approached by a member of the Rotary Club which I recently joined asking if I was looking for work. He even offered me part time work knowing I just retired at 24 dollars an hour. I told him thanks but I promised myself that I would be taking 6 months off after I retired but would maybe entertain the offer after that if it was still available.
The problem down here and I guess in a lot of places is that they can't find enough qualified people.
"Wow SD, you have really lost it." Another trying to win friends and influence people....
Hate to say it but hey, no duh, go figure that at full employment, companies are looking for people because ------- crap ---- everyone is working.... Or is it just because we Americans care so much about jobs that employers feel they must offer them?
Or are you now saying that "Why don't you try championing issues that most Americans care about. Like jobs" actually means employers?
enuff said. Why would I champion a cause that has been fixed? Seems somewhat more useless than trying to discuss issues on HL.....
guess what happens next ----- if employers can't find people because our giant "care-about" is cared for --- guess what happens next...… do you hear jeopardy music.....
it's a good thing fyi....unless you don't like the inflation that comes with it.
sigh
No just pointing out that you were putting an emphasis on the jobs created were attributable to Investigations into Trump and his policies. Carry on my wayward son.
Any credence to an economic” sugar high” created by ADDITIONAL 1.7 TRILLION DOLLAR DEFICIT STRAPPED TO THE BACKS OF YOUR CHILDREN AND GRANDCHILDREN?
Errr....you betcha.
Stymie: what are you referring to ----- the stimulus from Obama OR some sort of tax-cut deficit for some period of time?
Whatever you conspire to make up is what's next...…
Remember, mob rules.....Mitch told us, Don told us. We are the mob now!!!
The "dims" as he calls us are too dangerous to govern, too wacko....we are radical socialists ready to turn you into Venezuelans.
Democrats will steal your money, give it to latinos, make you have abortions, and take your guns..... Don told us
Don told us that Democrats will favor "open border socialism," a term only a dog could hear the meaning of.
"Democrats are also pushing massive government control of education, private-sector businesses and other major sectors of the US economy" said Don who is a Pelosi doppelganger in his off hours.
Lock her up, lock her up (her can be Clinton or now, new and improved Feinstein can be used.....)
The Press is the enemy of the people, one down, thousands to go, Saudi's --- Don loves those guys...."I like strong rulers."
Shamanism --- keep listening to the whistles, avoid the facts, demean and diminish the press as enemies of the people and MAGA --- you just got to believe. I mean just suspend all truth and believe.
"What's next for this woman." Indeed.
Well that's just it, isn't it? It's convenient to have no witnesses and no evidence when you are under oath... you can't be tried for perjury, because without eyewitnesses or evidence of some kind, it's unprovable. Just like the story you are telling is.
Only 2 people know if the event happened: Ford & Kavanaugh. Fortunately for Kav, there were no witnesses and no evidence in the accuser's case. Unfortunately (or fortunately, if the story was created or remembered incorrectly) for Ford, there were no witnesses and no evidence in the accuser's case.
Convenient, wouldn't you say? No matter the outcome, Ford couldn't be hurt. And she's even amassed quite a nice sum on 2 GoFundMe accounts from "supporters".... hmm....
Last time I looked, the total was north of $700,000
wow that's total bullsh*t... why would people give her all that money... Too many stupid people in this country...
Three people witnessed, not two, no witnesses allowed by Grassley; yes, my story is a lie - it has Trump quotes; if stupid people gave her $1m; then how many stupid people did Don con for $10B — like 10,000 times more....
Your math, your assumptions ;-)
https://www.scribd.com/document/390521673/The-Good-Censor-GOOGLE-LEAK#from_embed
A leaked Google briefing in which the company admits a "shift towards censorship"
"Three people witnessed"
Nope. Only 2. The 3rd denies it happened, therefore... can't be a witness to nothing. Uncorroborated.
Next.
Kav has a GFM too? Nice!! It'll be interesting to hear what Ford & Kav do with their donations....
hmm... interesting...
snopes has a page verifying that a Go Fund Me page was indeed started for Judge Kavanaugh.
BUT... no such verification on snopes that Christine Blasey Ford also had a (two actually) Go Fund Me page started for her.
they ruined the lives of me and my family and all I got was this stupid go fund me page!
Scottso: depends on the beer :>) and the consumption :>)
Well, then there is only one witness...… No corroboration --- only based on the Senate hearing and the limited FBI investigation. Was it limited - you betcha. Your rules - just saying. I mean somehow they believe Ford on her story of being abused, they just draw the line at her abuser..... Same person, one story, two conclusions.
Well she has to be "new and improved" if she's the Hillary lock-her-up replacement. I would just love to see you yo-ho's in the rally audience screaming "lock her up" and the other zombie slogans. Seig Heil 2020, Seig Heil 2020...
"He’s got to have astronomical legal fees" Why, isn't he a lawyer?
He abuses her for the money Scottso.
Let's all move on from this as a teachable moment: Congressional advise and consent process sucks. More so when you change it ad hoc. Let's let this sleeping dog lie until he makes his first bonehead decision to let the Pres. off da hook.
Limited investigation? Who else were the FBI supposed to interview besides the people named to be present at the supposed party? Ford couldn't even tell you whose house they were at, when it happened, how she got back and forth from it... LOL.... What's limited is her recollection of the event.
OMG....the man likes beer....wait whats this
https://newsone.com/playlist/barack-obama-beer-moments/
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/barackobama/11657788/Why-is-Barack-Obama-drinking-beer-at-11am.html
(I could be here all day posting links)
Now what?
Oh...I forgot.....that's alright, because you like him.....
Hypocrite
Eric Holder just said that the old saying "when they go low we go high" is to be replaced with " when they go low, we kick them". Nice, also Hilary said yesterday in London that is impossible to be civil with a Party that wants to destroy what you stand for, unbelievable. Also, the Antifa mob taking over streets in Portland while the police just watch, all under the control of the left wing Democratic mayor.
https://www.westernjournal.com/antifa-shut-intersection-threaten/
Western Journalism, your MSM source, has a far right media biases with mixed levels of fake facts. I’m not sure your other stuff is true either
Did you watch the video?, the video doesn't lie.
The other stuff.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/09/politics/hillary-clinton-civility-congress-cnntv/index.html
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2018/10/10/eric-holder-says-michelle-obama-wrong-when-they-go-low-we-kick-them/1593189002/
Thanks.
Holder and Clinton, especially Clinton are pretty tame calls to arms compared to the Trumpisms flying about to the chants of the sycophants.
The tape. Got date, place? I just see people running about and the text added little. Says the group is called Toronto....
kb, sorry about that; somehow I got linked to another tape, perhaps even another place, frankly I can't recreate. It's weird.
Antifa should be arrested for any violence against persons or property. Democrats should not condone, even smirk, at such actions. Even the ole whipped cream pie in the face, a perennial chuckler, should be treated as a violent act, punishable by law. Any Democrat that supports their actions should be voted out.
Portland is the Antifa epi-center since about 2007 I think; surprised that people just don't avoid the confrontation by avoiding the areas. I believe there were no charges in this event so far even though police presence was supposedly everywhere. Another weird. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/09/the-rise-of-the-violent-left/534192/
However, linking Antifa to Clinton, Holder, or frankly any worthy Democrat OR the Democratic Party is just not true. It's more like: https://www.thedailybeast.com/gop-has-a-white-supremacy-problem-dems-dont-have-an-antifa-problem
Unbridled, needless debt starting to negatively affect the market?
Or could it be flatlined middle class incomes combined with inflation?
Market negativity to tariffs?
Who knows.
“trade wars are easy to win...”
Who declares bankruptcy running a casino??
Multiple times??
UH OH....
https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/kanye-west-segment-on-cnn-labeled-racist-for-calling-singer-token-negro-of-the-trump-administration
I guess it's ok for CNN to be racist. No wonder their ratings are in the gutter...
Maybe, just maybe....it's not OK to be racist for anyone.....IMO...at least for me. But is CNN being racist or is it a dog whistle to the Trump mob which includes most of the voting racists in America?
Given the statistics, wouldn't any black person associated with the Trump administration be considered a token? Or is just saying the word token considered racist now? Can't use the t-word anymore? My, my it seems the Trumpians amongst us are getting very politically correct......when it serves them.
I mean where's the dictionary definition of racism as in "prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior. Or "the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races" in that?
Factually, the Trump administration has zero blacks in senior administration roles; I think there's about 30 positions presently. America is 12% African American which, if Trump cared about diversity, would be 3-4 senior advisors. Based on Trump's current qualification metrics, I would think any inner city African American would have the appropriate skill set to match his Trumpian peers :>) I mean if Betsy DeVos got a job...… Remember Scaramangler? He got a job for an hour......
This story seems to be growing as I type. If anyone has WSJ subscription, you can probably get better reads. If Flynn fessed up to an association, then we do have an example Trump Campaign to Russia collusion, whatever that is.....
And yes, we finally have a death in the Russian investigation --- will conspiracy theories follow?
And yes, yes, we don't have the final link of what Mueller knows --- that is, Flynn's involvement which would seal the deal.
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/410815-late-gop-operative-who-sought-clinton-emails-had-ties-to-flynn-report
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/timothy-j-barnett/why-democrats-lost-big-in_b_6126968.html
democrats did the same thing in 2014 - Nov. 10, 2014 - HuffPo: It appeared Democrats might hold the Senate, but lost in a landslide to the GOP. Why? Spiral Silence Theory. Voters unhappy with the increasingly radical voice of the Dems made themselves unavailable to pollsters or shielded their real views
I think the angle that the democrats have taken in the last few years has become so widely divergent from moderate voters that it's not reparable. Those who voted for Obama or HRC because they wanted to be part of electing the first black or first female president are no longer listening.
The issues that mattered to them a few years ago (e.g. gay marriage) have already been settled by SCOTUS. The focus in the last 4 years has turned to the economy and jobs and things are booming. I would not count chickens.
With this volatile political environment:
-the 2 sides HATE one another,(at least that's what the MSM makes it look like),
-the dems have lost their minds (calling out for "resistance" against the sitting president),
-the fact that the party of the president USUALLY looses in the midterms (but not always),
-the economy doing better,
-the Kavanaugh spectacle...
...anyone with a prediction is taking a shot in the dark. And we KNOW the MSM "polls" can't be trusted (hello President Trump!)
Nothing would surprise me. Still waiting for the dems October surprise, assuming Dr. Ford wasn't it.
But for all you MSM fans.... if the "Blue Wave" does not materialize like the MSM has been predicting for months.... what will you learn? What will that help you realize about the MSM? About their trying to shape the outcome with polls and reporting, instead of actually being JOURNALISTS and sticking to reporting what actually happens?
Did 2016 teach you anything? Will 2018 teach you anything?
SD what did you forget that Ben Carson is in Trump's Cabinet? As far as Don Lemon's show, you really think if Hannity allowed talk like that, that the Left wouldn't be calling him racist? Van Jones pulled the race card on election night 2 years ago. It's disgusting. These people are so out of touch with reality, that it's no wonder Trump won. They still don't get it and apparently neither do you. Now the Dems want the people to commit violence. And it's not one person saying it, it's several now. God help us if the Dems win control, we're doomed...
Metsman, "CNN" didn't make the comment in question; an individual did... said individual being a black woman who is also a self-described conservative Republican.
ian - perhaps you missed this gem from Bakari Sellers (in that same article):
"Kanye West is what happens when Negros don’t read."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakari_Sellers
He is a former state rep (Democrat) and vice chairman of the South Carolina *Democratic* Party. He's also a CNN political commentator, so yes they rightfully should take the heat for whatever he says on the air.
What do you think the response would have been if a white guy said that? Certainly not laughter and additional racist comments from the woman you are referring to (Tara Setmayer)
Well, look at that... Kanye West bringing liberal Democrats and conservative Republicans together to find the common ground that he's a complete tool. Bravo...
I know that some white people are still bent over the supposed double standard that black people can use the word Negro and such and they can't... get over it, it's pretty much settled propriety at this point. If it makes you feel better, you can call me a cracker and no one will bat an eye (-;
I think the fact that Conservatives have made West a cause celeb says it all. You complain about MSM while living your reality TV political theatre. Every day a new episode, a new diversion, the same ole chants, all designed to amuse the 8th grade mind of the average American television consumer.
Trump ratings are down, his ralleys less crowded.
Remember, tomorrow is Friday and Friday is Mueller time. Drink up buttercups.
Mets, we are both right. By "senior administration," I meant Senior Advisors and my data is correct. Of course I did note the incompetent Cabinet Member Betsy as a qualification role model so I pretty much screwed the pooch on that one.
The cabinet has, I think, 15 representatives of which Ben Carson is one (see my comments on skill set :>). So the cabinet has 6.6% blacks in a 12% US demography. Funny thing is who the heck has heard from Carson. The man fell off the earth. He's the Clarence Thomas of the cabinet, another silent minority member apparently.
So, that's 6.6% for the cabinet, 0% for Senior Advisors and a top shelf average of 2% for cabinet and senior advisors combined. It was 4%, but......she left....with tapes....and a yuge grudge. (what was I saying about Reality Show Administration?)
Steller. As Trump says: 'what have you got to lose?" Apparently high level jobs in the administration to begin with.
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/rep-steve-scalise-when-eric-holder-other-dems-call-for-violence-thats-a-direct-threat-to-our-democracy
Good piece by Steve Scalise...
A partisan piece that could have been great if fair and balanced. But instead it was a one-sided hate piece intended to excite you to vote. Fact is that political threats and actions are up across the board. I contend that they start at the top where the buck is supposed to stop.
Neither Holder or Clinton preachec violence unless you feel getting kicked when you’re down has to mean violence. Give it a rest.
And if I see shoutouts to Paul’s neighborhood scuffle as being politically motivated, I may text scream. He was just a nut. But yes, Paul did have another threat as well.
Don’t be misled by your MSM outlets feeding you half a loaf.
How about believing it when it comes from her own mouth? The only time Democrats can be civil, Hillary said, is when they are in power. This is all about them taking back control of this country. According to Hillary," That's why I believe if we are fortunate enough to win back the House and/or the Senate, that's when civility can start again. But until then, the only thing that the Republicans seem to recognize and respect is strength.," Hence, calling out the mob to show Republicans the Democrats' strength.
Remember during the debate when she said she would accept the results of the election? When do you think she will start to do that? Nearly 2 years and we are still waiting.
"Don’t be misled by your MSM outlets feeding you half a loaf."
Says the guy who links to the onion like it's legit news.
Says the guy who sees the ;-) and says; wow, that means the guy is being serious ;-)
Warren has Native American lineage.
Trump to pay $1m to charirty.
Unless he lied......
It shows “strong evidence” of a single ancestor going back 6-10 generations. It’s a very thin analysis, and does not support the headlines.
From The Globe online edition
https://web.archive.org/web/20181015103125/ https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/politics/2018/10/15/warren-addresses-native-american-issue/YEUaGzsefB0gPBe2AbmSVO/story.html
The Globe acknowledges how weak the DNA findings are:
"The inherent imprecision of the six-page DNA analysis could provide fodder for Warren’s critics. If her great-great-great-grandmother was Native American, that puts her at 1/32nd American Indian. But the report includes the possibility that she’s just 1/512th Native American if the ancestor is 10 generations back…."
then they printed a correction - that the math should have said 1/1024 Native American.
Warren is not making the original data available, only the interpretation of that data by the person she selected to review it.
"To make up for the dearth of Native American DNA, Bustamante used samples from Mexico, Peru, and Colombia to stand in for Native American"
Trump’s bet was to not only take the test but show she is Indian. Since she is now demanding he pay up she is effectively declaring that 0.097% to 3% is enough to claim status.
She is no where near qualifying to be a member of the tribes she has claimed ancestry for. Delaware is an 1/8 degree blood quantum and Cherokee is simply any degree of blood with a descendant being a tribal member.
http://thorpe.ou.edu/OILS/blood.html
what was Warrens intent when she received benefits due to this "Native American Heritage?"
changing her ethnicity from white to “Native American” at UPenn
Listing herself as a "woman of color" at Harvard
self Identifying as "racial minority" in American Dir. Law Teachers
allowing Harvard to tout her "native american" status to boost their diversity programs.
so does the left now want to bring back the "One Drop" rule?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule
SD I bet we could find a tiny fraction of native American in you if we dug deep enough... LOL...
Beats the welcher King you elected. Welches on Paris Accord, welches on Iran Peace, welches on ObamaCare it’s easy replacement, and now on yet another charity. Wonder if the vets ever got their telethon donations or did he welch on them too. Maybe his Foundation can help; opp’s: closed down for welching.
We know who votes bull around here tyvm.
Well if you want to be technical, my vote didn't decide Trump winning. But you don't see me crying about the electoral college. Hillary seems to think California's overwhelming support for her should have won it for her you know instead of campaigning more in Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, and Wisconsin where she lost.
Using Warren’s definition wouldn’t that make nearly everyone eligible to enroll as a minority in higher education institutions? We are a nation of mutts after all.
I’m thinking that by doing so it kinda misses the point of giving minorities special privileges.
Well Skippy, I'm glad one minority group in this country realizes the Dems are full of it...
"Well if you want to be technical, my vote didn't decide Trump winning. But you don't see me crying about the electoral college."
Huh? Why would you cry about it? Your guy won.
MB I wouldn't be crying if Hillary won. That is the process in our country. You don't campaign for the most votes, you campaign to win states.
"Still, a deal is a deal."
"To make up for the dearth of Native American DNA, Bustamante used samples from Mexico, Peru, and Colombia to stand in for Native American."
fake news...
Amazing how whenever you mention Trump, the Trumpets think Hillary. Weird fascination with losers.
But this is about Trump’s own words and you know these folks don’t care about a man standing up for what he says anymore.
So they rationalize, divert, etc.
Leave it to the Groper in Chief to weasel out of a bet.
His mouth always engages before his PEAbrain.
The fact that his “ base” can turn a blind eye to his racism, overlook his LIES on health care and carry on their backs the tax “reform” - GIVEN TO THE TOP .0005% of the country speaks volumes about our crumbling education system.
Stacked a needless 1.7 TRILLION on the next generation
And by the way— Great Painting
I guess Walmart was out of the ‘ole dogs playing poker.
He just oozes class.....
Cherokee Nation Secretary of State Chuck Hoskin Jr. "Sovereign tribal nations set their own legal requirements for citizenship, and while DNA tests can be used to determine lineage, such as paternity to an individual, it is not evidence for tribal affiliation," Hoskin continued. "Using a DNA test to lay claim to any connection to the Cherokee Nation or any tribal nation, even vaguely, is inappropriate and wrong. It makes a mockery out of DNA tests and its legitimate uses while also dishonoring legitimate tribal governments and their citizens, whose ancestors are well documented and whose heritage is proven. Senator Warren is undermining tribal interests with her continued claims of tribal heritage."
Not wanting to pile on, but you have to admit this is pretty funny:
“Hilariously, Warren’s only Native American ancestor may have actually lived at the time of Pocahontas.”
Interesting subject, ancestry.
From here:
https://www.quora.com/What-percentage-of-the-US-population-carry-Native-Americans’-DNA
“The White American average genetic makeup is 98.6% European, 0.19% African, and 0.18% Native American.”
If the author is to be believed, the average American has 0.18% Native American, so wouldn’t that make Warren completely average and thus the use of “Natuve American” to get into colleges and get loans be a form of fraud?
I believe that she believes it, so fraud would be a stretch, but the small amount doesn’t help her in the least imo and only proves that she’s just an average American.
Why would he be weaseling out of a bet. She has proved nothing as others have stated. Maybe 1 in 512 or 1 in 1024 chance there MIGHT be some sort of Native American lineage. That does not give her the right to say she is Native American when applying fo college. She has also stated her Husbands parents were against them marrying because of her mothers Native American lineage and they had to run off and elope. Another load of bs.
From JIT's linked article:
"But, you also have to understand that this is based on aggregate figures. Most families would have no Native ancestry at all."
jd2 Good point jd2. If the average is so small, and most families have 0%, then there must be very, very few with significant ancestry for the average to be so small.
But because she’s near the average, doesn’t that also work against her? I don’t see how it couldn’t given the context of her using her ancestry for personal gain in the past.
We’re all stupid here.
Her tRUMP said do.
He plainly stated that only STUPID PEOPLE PAY TAXES.
So, I’m POSITIVE I’m stupid.
As is everyone else on this board.
VOTE
VOTE
VIOTE
VOTE
Parse it any way you want, a deal is a deal.
But this is about Trump’s own words and you know these folks don’t care about a man standing up for what he says anymore.
So they rationalize, divert, etc.
Actually, what he said was that if he were debating Pocohantas he would pull out a dna kit and challenge her to prove her claim. If she could prove it, then he would pay a million dollars to charity.
1. he was not debating Elizabeth Warren
2. she has not proved that she is Cherokee
If you are going to claim he's a liar, at least be sure of your facts and able to prove that it's true.
Just curious what the reaction would be if Trump got a DNA test that said he had 1% African decent and he made the claim that he is now the 2nd black president.
By the way, I missed the whole bet thing but if he lost then great! Just be careful what you wish for because I could see that working to his advantage as well. He is, after all, quite the manipulator.
Facts don’t matter to the left they are non player characters at this point endlessly chanting
Orange man bad
Orange man racist
Meanwhile Alec Baldwin is calling for the overthrow of the US Government under Trump.
Elizabeth Warren made a fool of herself, again.
Judge threw out Stormy Daniels defamation suit against Trump.
The liberal tears must be flowing. No wonder a-hole Baldwin is losing his mind even more than before.
Rosie; I believe you chose Trump’s latest statement as he jiggers the deal now that his head is firmly planted in his yuge behind.
His original statement is as I stated.
Like his lies over releasing his taxes where he continues to renegotiate what he says for the never ending audit, he is changing his new Warren replies as he sees fit. He started with “no, I didn’t say what you have on tape.”
Why Rosie and others are willing to only listen to his latest lie that erases his earlier lies is beyond me. The stuff is taped; you really just have to look. But trusting Trump’s latest version is usually even stupider than trusting his first version.
I don’t even listen anymore. It’s easier to let the fact checkers take the first utterance apart. So many lies from this President. Like what, 5,000 by now?
Actually, I chose to go directly to the source and looked up his statement from when he made it. I listened to the tape before I reached my conclusion unlike most of the haters on here. If you want to talk about liars, how about Booker, Menendez, Obama, Rice, Hill and Bill, Blumenthal, and Schumer to name a few. Here's the link:
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2018/07/05/trump_offers_1_million_for_pocahontas_elizabeth_warren_to_take_dna_test.html
"I shouldn't tell you because I like to not give away secrets," Trump said. "But let's say I'm debating Pocahontas. I promise you I'll do this: I will take, you know those little kits they sell on television... learn your heritage!"
"A guy says he was born in Scotland, turns out h was born in Puerto Rico, that's okay, that's good, you know. A guy ways he was born in Germany, he was born someplace else."
"And in the middle of the debate, when she proclaims that she is of Indian heritage because her mother said she has high cheek bones, that is her only evidence, her mother said we have high cheek bones," Trump continued.
"We will take that little kit -- but we have to do it gently. Because we're in the #MeToo generation, we have to do it gently," the president trolled. "And we will very genlty take that kit, and slowly toss it, hoping it doesn't injure her arm, and we will say: I will give you a million dollars to your favorite charity, paid for by Trump, if you take the test and it shows you're an Indian."
Warren's "ancestry" is a joke. Most European Americans have 2x the Native American DNA she does. It'd be like say *I* am a Founding Father because my great great great great grandfather fought in the Revolutionary War.
Even the Native Americans themselves know it's a joke:
from the NY Times, a trusted source by the left:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/15/science/elizabeth-warren-native-american.html
But hey- maybe she just "identifies" as a Native American... that counts, right?
In other news, judge dismisses Stormy Daniel's defamation case against Trump AND orders her to pay his legal fees LOL.
https://thehill.com/homenews/news/411539-judge-dismisses-stormy-danielss-defamation-case-against-trump
news source : https://www.kjrh.com/news/local-news/cherokee-nation-issues-statement-on-sen-elizabeth-warren-s-dna-test-results
official sauce: http://www.cherokee.org/News/Stories/20181015_Cherokee-Nation-responds-to-Senator-Warrens-DNA-test
Cherokees call the test a mockery and that they undermine tribal interests.
JR - How well did you read the NYT article? How she "identifies" is *exactly* what the article says does count. It talked all about how there is a difference between ancestry, your DNA and a "cultural identity". It also specifically talked about how the science was very good and it did prove Warren's story that she has Native American ancestors. But that does not change how her parents brought her up.
As an aside that was discussed elsewhere, has anyone else done genetic testing? Not only the Ancestry.com/23andMe but Y-Seq or NGS? It's producing some very interesting history. There's a far better website for information about genetic distance, centiMorgans, or TMRCA:
https://isogg.org/
It explains what something like Warren's 5 segments and 12.3 cM means. And it's nothing to sneeze at. My matches at that level give me anywhere from 6th to 3rd cousins. They say the autosomal tests like Ancestry.com are only good to about 7-8 cousins yet I have a 10th cousin verified by genealogy records. Yet there are some 3rd cousins that have such low amounts of shared DNA they only are matched if you lower the threshold commonly used. The GEDMATCH site makes that very easy to do if anyone has done testing and wants to investigate it.
For me, particularly for us guys, the most interesting part has been Y-DNA testing. Most DNA (99%) is the same for everyone. Even the other type of testing is looking at only 1% of the total. But Y is even more the same since it's passed down without the recombination. So any variation points back a hundred years or more for just one single DNA value. Mine has turned out to be interesting because of an extremely specific marker for Scots-Irish migration. I have an even rarer marker further defining my male ancestry to an even more specific geographical group.
"JR - How well did you read the NYT article? How she "identifies" is *exactly* what the article says does count."
Well, in that case, I "identify" as a Senator.... so I should get to vote on the next SCOTUS pick, AND get their gold-plated healthcare plan, along with their salary. Thanks. I'll let you know where to send the check.
Even the Cherokee Nation has disavowed and disowned the phony poser Warren.
Why would they do this? Because they have more self respect and a higher sense of honor than she does, or ever will have.
The Cherokee know a phony and a poser when they see one. And Elizabeth (Pocahontas) Warren fits the bill.
Of course JR does not believe in science; he’s Trumpian through and through. ;-)
Rosie; I still have not figured out whether Trump is an evil genius or the luckiest blowhard on the planet. You found the original wager that only a master weasel could construct. Mine is the quote contained therein. You’re not out of the woods yet since we know Trump repeats himself and who knows what he said at other rallies. Time and the fact checkers will tell but for now the ball is in your court.
But no, even if you added all the lies from the long list of liberals mentioned, it would be dwarfed by Trump the liar. Has to be the yugest Presidential liar in US history.
Science? What science? Since when has "identifying" become science?
I identify as a scientist, and I declare "identifying" is NOT science.
JIT has it right. Claiming "heritage" (which Warren did not even KNOW at the time), when it is only 1/1024th, and then receiving preferential treatment for it, "misses the point of giving minorities special privileges." It CHEAPENS the entire thing, and hurts those who those laws were created for.
JIT also right:
"Just curious what the reaction would be if Trump got a DNA test that said he had 1% African decent and he made the claim that he is now the 2nd black president."
Even when you are proved wrong, you can't admit it. Bloviated opinions are not facts. I believe that Obama is the worst presidential liar of all time. You think it's Trump. As long as the President continues to do the good work that he is doing I will ignore the hatemongers and support him.
SD so the woman is 1/1024 Native American and you can't see how hilarious that is? You could be an albino with that much African American in you, doesn't make you black. LMAO....
Yawn Rosie. I conceded the point; I wasn’t wrong, just not fully informed. And Yrump is indeed the greatest lying President in history.
You call me a hater and hatemonger. Thanks.
Bloviated? Really?
If you can’t do better than that, stand down with the weak name calling.
Meanwhile Bill Clinton has one of the most famous lies in American history... "I did not have sexual relations with that woman"... And SD voted for his wife who tolerated that behavior and degraded the women who accused him. Yet you go on and on about Trump's supposed behavior and Kavanaugh's based on zero corroborating evidence. The day in the life of StrangerDanger... Oh what a magnificent spin cyclist you are... LMAO...
Wow, if anyone did anything wrong, then what Don does is f-ing Ok with Mets. You found your one love that can’t do wrong.
How about lock them all up starting with Trump.
Yet on the lying aspect Trump rules. It’s just that for Mets, size apparently matters.
Trump is the most prolific liar of any American President. Not one of you has proof to the contrary.
Journalists are enemies of the people. Punch that guy in the mouth, I’ll cover the court costs. I just love strong rulers.
Guess somebody was listening.
Words matter. Truth matters. Lies are morally wrong. Justice matters. Mets calls it spin.
So according to some, “Family lore” is a justifiable reason to claim minority status in order to gain favored status in scholastic endeavors and monetary compensation.
Glad to hear as I have a child filling out college applications now. Receiving minority status will go a really long way to keeping things affordable!
The left is so screwed here with this one. They have two options...
1. Support her knowing its a lie, and destroy their entire platform of identity politics. If shes Indian, then every white person is and no white person has "privilege" anymore. Political checkmate.
2. Disavow her and destroy a darling of the left. It would annihilate ANY possibility of her running for president and may even cost them her senate seat in the future.
Right now, those two camps within the democrat party are warring over this issue, right before the midterms. Stellar job folks.
Fake news jit, move on.
Course your King claimed rags to riches based on a mere $1m gift from Dad. His college summer jobs at home nettted him over $1m in todaus dollars and I think the NYT hard copy financials has Dad’s “gifts” at hundreds of millions.
Keep focusing on the small stuff and never drill down on your Lord.
SD does he really lie though or just likes to exaggerate? Then you have Obama’s famous line “You can keep your doctor”. What’s Trump’s line? Stating his inaugural crowd was bigger than Obama’s? LOL… None of these guys are squeaky clean, but please… worst liar in history… that’s laughable…
Actually this one shoukd be innocuous except for your desire to draw blood and burn witches. Win at all costs.
She never got anything for it that I can see.
If you do genealogy, this is a so-what. Happens all the time. I have Asian, European Jew and other inconsistencies yet family lore about being Jewish.
Only Trump made it a focal point for the suckers to fixate on as their daily cause celeb. Heck, many of you have linked it nor only to Hillary, but even hooked Bill into your penny drama.
Is it time to mention Trump and Hitler both are German.
What? I listed them out above - she claimed minority status at UPenn and Harvard and took a slot through affirmative action for one.
This would have been a non event if Warren didn’t have to start calling Trump on the “bet” along with the entire left - including you. When folks looked into it the test sample size was skewed along with various other discrepancies.
SD, that phrase came directly from the NYT article above, the one where GC said:
“How she "identifies" is *exactly* what the article says does count. It talked all about how there is a difference between ancestry, your DNA and a "cultural identity".”
So fake news? I think not!
Claiming, big deal. Trump has more untrue claims. Got a position because of it —- where?
@theDNC Wow did he claim affirmative action status to secure a job - you know she’s wrong here
Jit: Just can’t imagine she was seriously going for favored status nor can I find where she got any, at least according to Snopes. I think Skippy has her opening a casino ;-)
If she got favored status then throw the bum out.
If she just lied, well, lying is bery bery Trump now. Ask Rosie; she believes :-/
Doing genealogy, I have learned that family lore usually turns into something else. Best one I have is actually the native American nose as proof. I believe it turned out to be membership in some group, like Mohican Sons which turned out to be racist. Pretty funny.
Stranger- no reasoning with frightened Caucasians that are soon to lose their majority status and, they feel, a pinch of their White Privilege.
They LOVE the lies.
They LIVE a lie- denying that their privilege exists.
They’re crapping in their courdorys- desperately reaching out for any turd General Bonespurs will toss them to try and stay afloat.
SAD SAD SAD
VOTE VOTE VOTE
VOTE VOTE VOTE
We still going with Snopes as valid?
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/31/elizabeth-warren-native-american-heritage_n_1558838.html
Third time - now from HuffPost
the Harvard Crimson reported in 1998 that she was the university's only tenured minority as a "Native American.
she was listed under the minority section of a law teachers for-hire directory. Harvard later promoted her Native American heritage.
How about cultural appropriation for gain - she took a slot someone who was actually a minority could have occupied.
After the initial report the media was clearly going to be complicit in her spin that this showed somehow she really was native American. Thanks to real Native Americans it backfired in her face spectacularly, and they media had no choice but to back track, even the non stop Trump bashing CNN. It's been fun to watch!
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/trump-could-be-the-most-honest-president-in-modern-history/2018/10/11/67aefc5a-cd76-11e8-a3e6-44daa3d35ede_story.html
Wapo - Trump most honest president in modern history
http://archive.is/S9j4j
WSJ - Us is worlds most competitive economy for first time in a decade
Funny, a decedent of Pocahontas was on TV last night saying Warren owes all American Indians an apology. The Dems just keep shooting themselves in the foot.
Still waiting for the profit Warren gained by being native American. Yes, she listed it; yes, the college used it. But how did she profit?
Plus, was she wrong or just Trumpian legal? I mean pretty obvious she will not be Chief, but that’s not illegal nor wrong for her to claim a bloodline.
As far as Skippy bemoaning the loss of a native American slot at Harvard, that’s pretty funny since I have a pretty good idea as to his opinion on equal opportunity initiatives, but tell us Skippy, how many native American slots were mandated for the Institution.
Fact is she has native American heritage, albeit one instance, many generations back, and Trump made one heck on of weasely bet to rationalize his insulting misogynistic attacks on yet another woman.
Game on Tiny.
“Trump made one heck on of weasely bet”
He should pay up, 1/1024th of the initial bet to match Warren’s 1/1024th Indian DNA.
I think he can afford $976.
SD he's talking about a spot for a minority being taken which she clearly is not. When less than 1% of your DNA is a minority you are not one. Give me a break... Doesn't have to be Native American. There could have been an African American or Asian American that could have taken the spot. And what do you mean she didn't profit?! I'm pretty sure Harvard professors make some good coin....
I don’t get the game on Tiny reference and I have no idea about how many EO slots there are at Harvard - she got smacked, tried to back it up with a dubious test and lost even more credibility - right before midterms. She violated values the left holds dear regarding EO and is being held to the fire for it. Simple as that. It’s just hilarious how the left now needs to backpedal now to condone this behavior.
This nukes the lefts identity politics from orbit. If we can now identify as whatever 1% we are, there are no more protected groups - it’s foolish to condone her behavior.
And I’m still waiting on the “ special gifts” Melania possessed to deserve special visa.
{{{ crickets }}}
What’s that “ goose and gander “ thang??
To use a tactic of the left right back at them:
"this isn't about Melania". ;)
Skippy claimed: "she took a slot someone who was actually a minority could have occupied." Apparently he "assumed."
My point is, at this point, I don't know that Warren did anything illegal in claiming blood that she seems to have. Now if I have one ancestor that is Native American, can't I say I have Native American blood? I know of no other metric for declaration for EO purposes, do you? Nor do I believe, as Skipping assumed, that she took a slot at Harvard. Heck, at that time Harvard had too many white males in teaching and administration, at least according to critics. I believe there were plenty of slots available. Plus, I don't know whether there was a EO quota for this. I just don't know. Neither does Skippy when he makes his assumed claim.
Game on Tiny (you will just love it when you figure it out)
" When less than 1% of your DNA is a minority you are not one." Is that the law Mets. Are you sure...….
How much Communist blood do you have to be Communist? Does consorting with First Communist Lady Melania mean Don has colluded with Russia? Aha!!! We have him. Mueller can rest.
It ain't a tactic JR, it's called focus or diversion or...… whatever.
+1 Skippy for pointing out the self-defeating nature of the left's identity politics. If everyone is special - no one is special.
SD you come up with some deranged reasoning.... If everyone went back far enough in their family bloodlines, chances are there's some kind of minority strain in it. If you have to go back 400 years to find one in your DNA how does that make you a minority... LMAO... Warren is white. Case closed.
Nobody said it was illegal - ethically wrong? For sure. I got the stormy Daniels joke lol.
"How much Communist blood do you have to be Communist? Does consorting with First Communist Lady Melania mean Don has colluded with Russia? Aha!!! We have him. Mueller can rest."
Your insult to Melania aside, thanks for proving our point: just because SOMEBODY talked to Russia at SOME time, does not mean Trump colluded with Russia. Exactly right.
Trump didn't collude.
Warren isn't a Cherokee Indian (just ask the Cherokee).
Kavanaugh didn't commit sexual assault.
Clinton didn't cause Benghazi (she just lied about it).
And Bill Clinton "did not have sex with that woman, not a single time".. oh wait, scratch that one. ;)
“It ain't a tactic JR, it's called focus or diversion or...… whatever.”
Perfect summary of the entirety of duopoly politics.
O B F U S C A T I O N
lol
"As far as Skippy bemoaning the loss of a native American slot at Harvard, that’s pretty funny since I have a pretty good idea as to his opinion on equal opportunity initiatives, but tell us Skippy, how many native American slots were mandated for the Institution. "
https://hls.harvard.edu/faculty/index.html/
you probably already know this but ill point out where she benefited.
look where the faculty received their JDs from that are employed by Harvard Law School. they are all Yale Law School and other ivy league and top 10 ABA programs.
now comes warren Warren ( Rutgers Law class of ’76) who wants you to believe Harvard appointed her based on her scholarly ability..
Rutgers has always ranked in the 60s and often the 90s. When warren was hired it was #82
https://law.rutgers.edu/news/rutgers-law-school-ranked-62nd-nationwide-annual-us-news-world-report-graduate-school-rankings
She listed herself as a minority in the Association of American Law Schools directory and was recruited based on that - they touted her and she received tenure in 2 years - unheard of...
“Although the conventional wisdom among students and faculty is that the law school faculty includes no minority women, [then Harvard Law spokesman Mike] Chmura said professor of law Elizabeth Warren is Native American,” the Harvard Crimson reported in 1996. The Herald also pointed to the student newspaper’s claim two years later that Warren became “the first woman with a minority background to be tenured.”
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/us_politics/2012/04/harvard_trips_on_roots_of_elizabeth_warren_s_family_tree
no benefit? come on good sir. is it reasonable to believe that Harvard made a huge divergence in it's hiring practices because Warren was such a stellar teacher? or they wanted her because she fit 2 EEOC check boxes.
Again Skippy, according to the school, her bloodline had nothing to do with her hiring or Harvard’s bad rap for E O that they had even after hiring Warren. A demographic view does not prove different.
If they were window shopping minorities, why did they not complete the job? Why, in your listing, are there not other examples? Why did they do this and still have a bad EO rap.
Mets; and given your rainbow of choices, why did you conclude white? Anti one drop advocate only when it suits you.
Again, nothing illegal here although IMO Skippy has a point on the morality. Still a saint versus her tormenter.
"Why, in your listing, are there not other examples?" - did anyone else lie about being native american? the point was not to vet harvards hires. perhaps we should have Muller investigate?
The point was there is no illegality here; there seems to be no profiteering from it, according to the school, and there is nothing wrong with claiming you have native American heritage when you do. She never claimed to be an Indian nor to take afvantage from it. At most, an exaggeration of the amount.
It’s not like the “rags to riches” brilliant $10B businessman hogwash Trump voters swallowed up from our weasel better in chief. His “tiny” lie is OKdoky with you. Heck, you’re doing more vetting on Warren than you did with Trump.
Speaking of Mueller, details should be released soon from that investigation. Waiting for SD's head to explode when it turns out to be nothing...
“Speaking of Mueller, details should be released soon”
Prediction (I’m usually wrong though):
Before mid terms if there’s anything there.
After mid terms if there’s nothing there.
Exactly because they want to get people on the fence to vote Democrat. If you release it before then it could sway people to vote Republican if nothing of substance is in the report. Politics as usual...
She absolutely claimed to be Native American - what do you think listing it in her bio is
Yes, the Republican Mueller has a vendetta against the Republican Trump. Typical hard right bias, right jit :-)
Always with the exploding heads Mets. Such violence from the right. And such fascination with me personally. You should find more diverse targets to persecute. Perhaps pulling wings off flies....
Crikey Skippy, Trump said she was Pocahantus, Warren didn’t. She claimed native American heritage, not full blooded. And she is part native American. What do you claim; 100% of each portion of your bloodline. Or do you give specific percentages for each factor?
There is no proof she profitted. There is no proof Harvard selected her for this. And there is certainly nothing illegal. If you don’t like her values in this selection, how can you continue to tolerate your King? He’s a tiny man, Tiny Don. Man, that hurts. He better show us the truth real soon. Heh heh.
Give it a rest. You’re just polishing a turd at this point.
4,000 Russian twitter accounts with over 9,000,000 tweets targeting Trump voters and you say no meddling, not rigged, and voters unaffected.....
I wonder why advertisers even bother.... Wait, because it works.
Looks like rigged election, no collsion.....yet
Rosenstein announces that investigation results will be worth the investigation cost. Not in my book....so far. Foreshadowing?
I've never seen such bending-over-backwards to spin a 1/1024th truth into actual truth.
By that measure SD, you must love Trump at this point. After all, there hasn't been any collusion, he's created jobs, the economy has gotten better, ISIS hasn't been heard from in quite awhile.... there's gotta' be at least 1/1024th "good" in there somewhere, which OF COURSE means he's been good for America, right? I mean, it only takes 1/1024th truth right? Hell, *I* now love Obama, going by that standard LOL.
What surprises me (and not much does anymore), is that Warren actually thinks that this 1/1024th was some kind of a victory? Somehow makes her look righteous instead of like a fool? Even in the game of politics, it's one of the thinnest "proofs" I've ever heard; I mean, at least it wasn't a complete lie like the Russia Dossier was, but trying to hold yourself up with righteous indignation because of 1/1024th? Does she not have advisors with enough brains to tell her "Liz, uh... you don't want to publish that- it's not a victory- it's going to make you look like an 8-year-old child arguing with their mother, it's not going to make you look good.... on the contrary, people are going to laugh..."
The only people that are "with her" on the issue are the ones who she didn't need to lobby for votes to anyway... This one goes on record as being as bad as Bill Clinton's "it depends on what the meaning of the word 'is', is." ROFL
more NYT:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/17/us/politics/elizabeth-warren-dna-test.html
Chicago Tribune:
She’s just an old liberal white woman who wanted to be president and became a clown instead.
But what if she’d tried to become Greek instead of Cherokee? What if she had she tried to appropriate my own proud and ancient Hellenic culture?
Would I have been understanding?
No.
Sen. Warrenopoulos: Greek Princess.
In typing those four words, I became physically ill.
It’s a nightmare, really, thinking of Sen. Warrenopoulos shouting Opah! and explaining the flaming cheese thing to strangers.
And wearing black, bragging how she always keeps at least a dozen lemons at the ready in her kitchen. Pretending to like garlic, and spitting three times when Sen. Lindsey Graham crosses her path, and really spitting. Greeks don’t really spit to ward off the evil eye. We pretend-spit, dryly.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/kass/ct-met-elizabeth-warren-kass-20181017-story.html
So Jr, when you talk about your heritage, do you leave out rhe small numbers. Even if you family lore includes them?
I do not support Warren for 2020 at this time. I just support her right to claim she has native American blood in her heritage.
It wasn’t even an issue except for the jerk political hack Doug Brown bringing it up and your Swamp King Trump using it to brand her racially in an insulting misogynistic fashion which, of course, is of absolutely no problem at all to the faithful Republican Trumpets like youself.
Game on Tiny.
Came back to check in on happenings....see that SD is still in the sky is falling mode and claiming things that have no backing as true....my my times have not changed at all!
News flash....if Trump was so obviously guilty, the cry baby left wing nut jobs out would have walked out until he was put on trial and proven guilty....hell it only took a month for Kavanaugh to be investigated by the FBI 7 times!
Give it up already dude!
This is a nonsense issue, and Warren opened the door - shes not the victim here. Did she honestly expect to poke the troll king and not get this response? she shot herself in the foot - the only reason this is amusing is the contortions the left has to perform to resolve the cognitive dissonance created when they try to make this Trumps fault.
Wow, The big K investigated seven times in a month. Or is Darrin lying again. Or perhaps his failure in use of the language....he touts his Confederate pride with his flag; proud makers of octoroon-level scrutiny and one drop theory. (Probably didn’t spell that right, cannot check right now). Who even makes up a word like that....
I agree it was a stupid thing to check the box Skip. Said it before, ask Darrin, he, like Mets, stalks me like a jilted lover spewing emotion over fact regularly. Only jit can’t see that; monopoly—-tidycrats all.
But Skip, the rest is Trump. He made it the issue, he made the impoosible weasel bet, and now he will find some other women to demean. She does have the blood, she does have native american heritage, she did nothing illegal, she did not profit from it. ——-move on, next Trump soap opera episode please.
But you avoided the question; do you ignore the small stuff in your heritage? Do you drop off the family lore?
Ok, let me try...
Weird about that competitive report given borh skyrocketting debt and deficit. Usually a great economy fuels government revenues; Trump has apparently fixed that.
He has turned off the trickle in trickle down. He finally found a leak he can stop!
Isn’t anyone concerned with what follows tax-cut fuelled expansion and the fact that its doubtful that the Chinese will belly up to the bar to save us if one happens?
"So Jr, when you talk about your heritage, do you leave out rhe small numbers. Even if you family lore includes them?" -SD
Is JR using his supposed family lore to take advantage of a system for personal gain? And before you say it, personal gain does not always pertain to financial gain which you seem to be alluding to in your previous postings.
SD you have actual American Indians calling her out as a fool and yet you stand by what she has said. Amazing... You're a lemming waiting for the slaughter... Critical thinking isn't your strong suit.
What gain might you be alluding to... Harvard bio creds?
I know, let’s ask General Bonespur, Mr. millions of Muslims cheering from the rooftops, what the truth is......He never stretches the truth; he invents it.
That’s Native Americans Mets.... And both Warren and the Native Americans are correct.
What's correct is Warren is insane going around touting her Native American legacy when it's the tiniest fraction of who she is. She just an old liberal white woman.
Let’s put it this way...
Humans have more genetic similarity to frogs (about 1,700 out of 24,000 genes) than Warren does with Native Americans.
Cute. I’m back six days and nope. Don’t see it. However, I am known to slip, lots of bad spelling, granmer and such.
It’s still Native American no matter who is speaking Skip.
Of course I am a Skins fan so my goose is cooked anyways.
Let’s talk more about Warren’s mortal transgression and moral fallacy. Oh boy....
He's a liberal Skippy. It's ok if he's not PC. He just calls it out on others. LOL...
hahahah , lol !! Pocahontas lost this one, so has the liberal mob that keeps pushing her as a person of color, what a friggin' joke you guys are!! (lol)
The Cherokee Nation has distanced themselves from her and from the liberal mob who are relentlessly pushing her American Indian bonifides, because they know a phony and a poser when they see one.
And make no mistake about it Elizabeth (Pocahontas) Warren is a phony and a poser. According to the DNA data available, the average American has twice the amount of Native American blood in them that Elizabeth Warren has.
And she did use this charade to differentiate herself when she was younger. Claiming minority status this way is insincere, immoral and intellectually dishonest as is usual with her.
Like the Cherokee, those among us with actual Tribal status and recognition are outraged and offended at her attempt to appropriate a culture under false pretenses. 1/1024th % does make not make one come from a Cherokee background as she falsely claimed. Not even close, if fact the average Amercian is twice as close as she is. Just laughable that she thinks this is a good way to go.
The fact that the libs can't see this for what it is laughable, and the adnauseum arguing from HLs resident clown just keeps proving how out of the touch the dems are this election cycle.
I am honestly LMFAO at the thunderdome approach taken by this resident charlatan.
Sorry Mets. Continue to troglodyte, you wear it well.
And I am not PC at all, never have been. I just endeavor to persevere.
But you really need to stalk someone else. Or start talking issues and facts versus emotions and venting.
How about that competitive report?
No. I didn’t. That was her claim.
Mark: source?
But like I said, I do slip. And mentioning and “calling out” ate different things. For now on, when Mets screws up PC wise, I will let him continue to be a horse’s patootie.
OMGoodness, the Trumpets are worried about a possible Warren fib which isn’t a fib because she profited when she didn’t profit as they fully support the greatest lying President in history.
Tiny bubbles....
You guys have spent WAY too much time arguing over this Elizabeth Warren/Native American business. Good grief. You all need hobbies.
“Mark: source?”
https://www.livescience.com/6379-frogs-surprisingly-humans-genetically-speaking.html
1700 / 24,000 = 7.1%
All human beings, regardless of race, share 99.9%.
7.1% > 99.901% - 99.93% ?
Moving to Montana soon, gonna be a fat a$$ fake blond hair tycoon.
The boy loves his rallies. Fox don’t no more. Trumpets letting Fox and Trump down. Can’t watch The Big Bang Theory either, it has science.
Avenatti needs a score, 0 and 2 looking bad.
Mueller time will be cancelled tomorrow due to pending election. Prepare for the post mid term coming out party hosted by The No Collusion Band and the Trumpets. Rick Gates, Paul Manafort, and the really bad lawyer Cohen will be singing their number one with a bracelet — He ain’t heavy, He’s full of bullsquat.
I never said she wasn’t human, ianimal, just not Native American.
She is only 0.0976% Native American (or Indian, whichever term people prefer).
Just to clarify, from Mark's linked article:
"At least 1,700 genes in the African clawed frog genome are very similar to genes in humans that are associated with specific diseases, such as cancer, asthma, and heart disease."
They're just talking about genes related to disease. The similarity to humans must be much greater than 1,700/24,000.
Last night, Trump applauds candidate for body slamming a journalist.
Somewhere, Saudis smile
This is wrong for America.
Oh mean like how Maxine Waters told people to "resist" and harass Trump administration officials?
Or how Chris Cuomo said he was fine with Antifa violence?
You're right- this is wrong for America.
Republican politicians, their staffers and the offices where they work have become a recurring target for political violence.
Here are eight times just this year that Republicans faced such attacks.
California congressional candidate Rudy Peters, who is challenging Democratic Rep. Eric Swalwell, narrowly escaped a stabbing attempt in September. Peters’ attacker, Farzad Fazeli, shouted disparaging remarks about Republicans before attempting to stab the GOP candidate with a switchblade, police said.
https://dailycaller.com/2018/10/17/republicans-attacked-2018-list/?fbclid=IwAR1RK6jg-70div5s_MXC2xClu717Df3vHSnMKHiL0ZHrbj4tVNfU-p2-ccM
This is America??
Just when you think Groper in Chief can’t debase this country any further, he does.
Unbelievable- but a throng toadies in Warren County.
VOTE VOTE VOTE
VOTE VOTE VOTE
VOTE VOTE VOTE
I find it interesting that during Obama's reign, everyone was FINE with the Saudis.... even fine with Obama bowing to the Saudi king.... but now all of a sudden the Saudis are enemies. Kinda' like the Russia thing (Russia used to be our friends when Obama reigned but now that Trump is prez they are enemies.)
As if this is the first time the Saudis have murdered someone LOL.
At least the left is staying true to their "guilty until proven innocent position"
Cognitive dissonance + confirmation bias = nonsense.
Are they President? Wow.
The ole “but they did it, so the Don’s OK because when you go low, we get violent.” But if Don lies big time all the time, don’t let Warren embellish.....that’s a line jr can’t cross. No, no, no. That would be fair and balanced.
Cuomo is not fine with antifa violence, he qualified it in regards to the white supremacists you seem to be supporting. Read up and let’s discuss what he actually said.
And resist and harass is not physical violence.
But they are not the Leaders of the Free World. Of course, at this point, your King abdicated that too.
Just about the only time your Emperor has extended American values across the world is to defend his Saudi fat cat buddies innocence after proven, oops, I mean until proven guilty, beyond a shadow of a doubt. After all, we need their hundreds of billions in arms sales. YAL — yey another lie. A big un.
Gh— look at increasing violence on all sides and who supports and advocates it. A one sided spotlight leaves you in the dark.
"he qualified it"
LOL. sure. of course. "Sorry, what I meant is not what I said".... all is forgiven. He let the truth slip, then had to do damage control. There was a time when I thought you had a rational mind, SD...
I wonder, did Obama ever "qualify" his "bitter clingers" comment? Did HRC ever qualify her "deplorables" comment"?
Saying what you really mean, then "qualifying" it, is politics 101. They teach that in 1st year law school- doesn't matter if it's objected to, stricken from the record, or if the judge directs the jury to ignore it; IT'S ALREADY OUT T HERE.
Since your return from sabbatical, you seem to have also returned to your foaming-at-the-mouth, irrational, illogical, confirmation bias, spinmeister, self.
Wait- I didn't mean that; allow me to "qualify" that:
We just disagree. That's all I meant. ;)
PUBLIC SCHOOL TEACHERS BEHIND VIOLENT ANTIFA GROUP
Public school teachers are behind a leading far-left militant group that is part of the Antifa network that federal officials say is committing “domestic terrorist violence.”
By Any Means Necessary, which has played a key role in riots in Berkeley, Sacramento and elsewhere, has dozens of public school teachers among its members, including among its most prominent leaders.
https://dailycaller.com/2017/09/01/public-school-teachers-behind-violent-antifa-group/
It was his original discourse. You qualified it in your spin.
And thanks, but you lie. You never thought me rational. That’s just your set up to call names.
SD IDK what you are on, but the vast majority of violence has been sparked by the Left.
1. Crazy Bernie supporter shoots up a Republican baseball practice and nearly kills Steve Scalise.
2. Some wacko beat the crap out of Rand Paul in his own yard breaking multiple ribs and damaged a lung.
3. Maxine Waters inciting people to harass the administration and republicans.
4. Eric Holder saying to kick people.
5. Hillary telling people not to be civil and calling half the nation deplorable.
6. Dem Senators trying to throw due process out the window.
7. Chuck Schumer funding an accused pedophile and solicitor of prostitutes Menendez's campaign, but hypocritically denouncing Kavanaugh. There was a hell of a lot more to go on with Menendez than the judge....
You seem to ignore the insanity of the left and your only retorts are to make fun of Trump. I'll tell you what, if you hate the guy so much, then donate the extra money you're getting in your paycheck and 401K and investments that you like to brag about to charity.
Define “vast majority.”
Anecdotes are fun, but they are not statistics. Anecdotes are a major tool of the spinner.
Is the left out of control or are we out of control?
I can match almost every anecdote the hawk listed. (I can not come close to matching the Scalise tragedy).
I just desire a wholistic versus one-sided view.
Remember the child shooting examples I used to post? It was fun to tweak you but really proved little.
So do you tweak or do you look for the truth?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckdevore/2018/10/16/the-trump-manufacturing-jobs-boom-10-times-obamas-over-21-months/#4875eaa85850
The Trump Manufacturing Jobs Boom: 10 Times Obama's Over 21 Months
" That’s just your set up to call names."
LOL. Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you the wonderful story by renown playwright and novella-ist, strangerdanger, "And The Pot Called The Kettle Black."
SD list the violence incited by Republicans in the past year. I bet you'll come up with next to nothing. Oh and I forgot how Comedian George Lopez decided to grab a Trump supporter by the back of the neck because the guy was heckling him. That was real classy.
@ SD "Define “vast majority.”
Easy enough....
the vast majority (of something)
used when you want to emphasize that something is true about almost all of a group of people or things
https://www.ldoceonline.com/dictionary/the-vast-majority-of-something
;->
No, you call many more names than I, JR. Many more.
Support Constitutional Pillars, not Saudi Killers.....
Mets, you are such a sensitive man. First, wanting to date Ianimal, then stalking me, and now this..... sweeet. I have no intention of matching tit for tat inn anecdotes. And I am sorry if that excites you :>) From incitement to exclusion, your side, JIT"s side, have stoked the fires and blocked any input from my side. You are in power and you call us the devil, the mob, and worse. JR is the leader of the name calling on HL for example. He can not rise out of the primordial ooze to even have a discussion. Skippy and JIT do give discussion full measure, 90% of the time (which is probably better than I :>).
Meanwhile:
Being honest, this is a punt. Overall, since the dawn of man, the right is more violent. Period. Can you say Oklahoma bombing? Can you spell lynching by white supremacists? Gays nailed to fences? It's a yuge number of rocks and pushes to equal those. But at this point, who cares. The hub bub now is on the left, the only relevant time for our discussion is 2018 and I can find little big picture views of America in 2018. So here’s some stuff, but not the wholistic picture I am looking for.
“They will overturn everything we’ve done and they will do it violently,” Trump has spoken and you have listened……(remember, he lies a lot… but Mets believes all).
““They use their media to assassinate real news,” the woman’s voice says scornfully. “They use their schools to teach children that their president is another Hitler. They use their movie stars and singers and comedy shows and award shows to repeat their narrative over and over again.” NRA recruitment video
Want some more incitements to violence; I can list the Top Ten just from Trump alone……
First, as a nation in the world: https://www.fastcompany.com/90212938/the-u-s-is-getting-more-violent-by-the-numbers More competitive and more violent ---- hmmmm.
Then, as a country politic: from the left: “The Anti-Defamation League’s Center on Extremism reports that right-wingers and white supremacists were responsible for 74 percent of the murders committed by political extremists in the United States over the past decade. Only 2 percent were committed by left-wing radicals”
From the libertarians: “Cato Institute, has calculated that “terrorists inspired by Nationalist and Right Wing ideology have killed about 10 times as many people as Left Wing terrorists since 1992.”
But that is not 2018.
And some viewpoints: https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2018/09/28/right-wing-warnings-pose-far-more-danger-america-than-left-wing-violence/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.f87253996f6b
And a viewpoint: https://nypost.com/2018/09/13/whats-really-behind-the-rise-in-political-violence/
So, still looking……
Violence is synonymous with the left as is racism- since the dawn of the Democrat Party violence at the polls was a typical occurrence in every election. How about the span of 200 years where Democrats used violence to maintain political control over black Americans and those that supported them?
if you are going to say McVeigh was evidence of "right wing" terror - what about ANTIFA, BLM, Furgeson riots & Police shootings in Dallas?
The left still encourages mob rule to regain power
Since you went WaPo I am going Breitbart - the founder of WaPo.
603 Acts of Media-Approved Violence and Harassment Against Trump Supporters
https://www.breitbart.com/the-media/2018/07/05/rap-sheet-acts-of-media-approved-violence-and-harassment-against-trump-supporters/
Eric Holder, speaking at a political event for Stacy Abrams (running for governor in Georgia) Told the crowd, “When they go low, you kick them,”
https://youtu.be/u_9YD4M4Juk
Maxine Waters incites violence against Trumps cabinet.
Cory Booker pleads for activists to “get up in the face of some congresspeople.”
Hillary Clinton says “you cannot be civil with” Republicans" and “civility can start again” after Democrats win."
The MSM is the propaganda arm of the left and when incidents occur media minimization that follows.
"Violence is synonymous with the left as is racism- since the dawn of the Democrat Party violence at the polls was a typical occurrence in every election. How about the span of 200 years where Democrats used violence to maintain political control over black Americans and those that supported them?"
A political party didn't use violence; PEOPLE did. And those people who committed those atrocious acts of violence were ACTIVELY RECRUITED by the Republicans in the late '60s and the GOP has been the party of choice for Southern racists ever since. To compare the political ideology of today to the time pre-Civil Rights movement based on the NAME of the parties is ridiculously disingenuous.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy
Hmmm, approaching the 10% eh.....
Uh...in case you missed it, I am looking for 2018 stats across the board. Those pieces are just where the info was; no other bias intended, just looking for stats. Thanks for listing, again, another time, the left's loony comments, which, again, one more time, we will not support. However,
"Eric Holder, speaking at a political event for Stacy Abrams (running for governor in Georgia) Told the crowd, “When they go low, you kick them,” Can we see the tape one more time.... Yes, this is low.
"Maxine Waters incites violence against Trumps cabinet." Daily, monthly? Just a generalized call to war? Nukes? Gotta do better than that.
"Cory Booker pleads for activists to “get up in the face of some congresspeople.” Oh no, free speech in a public place. Oh, the horror of it all, the cad...… You're in my face all the time.....:>)
"Hillary Clinton says “you cannot be civil with” Republicans" and “civility can start again” after Democrats win." Since when does civility equate to violence except in the overly fearful?
" The MSM is the propaganda arm of the left and when incidents occur media minimization that follows." Wow, and you only have the Presidency (he farts, they cover), the Congress (50 more Trumpet clones), the House (many voices, many states), you poor suffering fearful one, you.
You know, I asked, politely, "Want some more incitements to violence; I can list the Top Ten just from Trump alone……" Did you really have to say YES so loud?
I just wanted a discussion on "is political violence getting worse in America OR is the Wolf right to say "those nasty, nasty dems are the root of all evil." But if you want a fight, I'm your Buttercup.
Game on Tiny.
America for Hoosiers, not Serial Abusers (going regional this time)
"No, you call many more names than I, JR. Many more. "
Somebody caught a pic of you, SD
Yes I do. And always have. And always will.
Sarah says “"The president does not support violence against anyone or anything” That's like JR did not support armed insurrection against Obama. Well, he said it "could, maybe, didn't really mean it" happen when pushed.
Mash up time.....and wait, there's more...…just tell me more about the left's stupid thing and I will puke up Trump's tiny slings. Or we can discuss, is political violence increasing in 2018 America. And the King yells to the cheers of the faithful:
Lock Her Up Release 1. For Hillary, hey, that's pretty damned uncivil in my book.
Lock Her Up Release 2. For Maxine. Is it better or worse the second time? Come on haters and hatemongers (Rosie's words, not mine) --- tell us.
"I'll beat the crap out of you."
“any guy who can do a body slam, he is my type!”
"I don’t know if I’ll do the fighting myself or if other people will."
"Try not to hurt him. If you do, I'll defend you in court. Don't worry about it."
"Maybe the Second Amendment people" can stop Hillary “
“They used to treat them very, very rough, and when they protested once, they would not do it again so easily,” he said, before "we've become weak."
Art of the Deal “
"Even in elementary school, I was a very assertive, aggressive kid," “In the second grade I actually gave a teacher a black eye — I punched my music teacher”
“You know, part of the problem and part of the reason it takes so long is nobody wants to hurt each other anymore, right?"
"Maybe he should have been roughed up because it was absolutely disgusting what he was doing,"
"If you see somebody getting ready to throw a tomato, knock the crap out of them, would you? Seriously, OK? Just knock the hell ... I promise you I will pay for the legal fees. I promise, I promise," (They did what he said, did he?). Assailant claimed he was “Trump inspired.”
"The audience hit back and that's what we need a little bit more of."
"I'd like to punch him in the face, I'll tell you."
"When you see these thugs being thrown into the back of a paddy wagon, you just seen them thrown in, rough. I said, 'Please don’t be too nice,'
"Like, 'Don’t hit their head and they’ve just killed somebody, don’t hit their head.' I said, 'You can take the hand away, OK?'
Freedom's Words Not Trump Turds (keep polishing boys, keep polishing)
SD it's funny you call him king when FDR who is regarded to be a great president, was elected to 4 terms and died in office. Only President to ever serve as long. Yet Trump will walk away after two terms. These little names you give are childish.
https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/oct/18/texas-democrats-ask-noncitizens-register-vote/
Dems attempting to influence the midterms - can’t do anything without cheating.
Texas Dems ask noncitizens to register to vote, send applications with citizenship box pre-checked
"Thanks to all of you for helping make the term “Republicrats” mainstream! ;-)"
It's a perfect term!! Congrats!
" That's like JR did not support armed insurrection against Obama. Well, he said it "could, maybe, didn't really mean it" happen when pushed."
You're getting good at telling little white lies, taking lessons from HRC (oh no, that would be BIG lies), and Warren? I never supported such an action. I said it could happen, I said it wouldn't surprise me, I even said that IS what the 2nd Amendment was written for. I never supported it, I ALWAYS say "God forbid" when discussing that subject. I pray we NEVER have to go there.
But hey- if you want to go with the "1/1024th makes it true" rule, then yeah, I guess you "got me" LOL. "It could happen" = "I support it". There must be 1/1024th in there somewhere LOL.
I've never seen anyone on this forum deny reality as strongly as you, SD. Even your cohorts know when to stop pounding sand.... you just keep pounding.... They admit reality... they don't like it, they bitch about it, but they admit it... you might want to consider giving that some thought. The truth will set you free. It'll suck like hell at first, but in the end, it'll set you free.
The caravan of 4,000 Hondurans headed our way is stopped at the Mexican border. Clashes are happening as I write this. I wonder who is funding the caravan.
Guess Trump made a good deal with Mexico with the revamped NAFTA if all of a sudden Mexico is stopping people.
If the first thing they do is break laws coming into this country what hope do we have that they will follow laws later? What about others that patiently wait in line for years?
Cleo The absolute first thing? Every single blessed one? And then on to a life of crime. My goodness, we have much to fear. How does this affect the ones who wait for years? Bad stigma from the fearful?
Oye, and now we will hear the song stylings of our favorite duo: generalizations and hysteria; hit it boys.....
Well I assume they don’t have visas SD - so yes the first thing they would do during entry is break the law
Bingo. You win the impossible bet award. You obviously can structure Trump’s next bet to Warren :-)
Kb; how Trumpian in that Trump just said he knows a guy who knows a guy who said the Dems are doing it. Can’t tell you who the guy is, Trump loves unnamed sources ;-/ And Obama not born in America. And no global warming. And Puerto Rico is restored. No dead. You guys believe anything.
Mets; King Trump the taxation without representation tyrant because of tarriffs and his loyal band of agreeing right winger tories is where he got that name. King is not a factor of time. Conservatives loving tarriffs, incredible.
Really JR: tree of liberty tomes don’t ring a bell?
Breaking News: Well its not Mueller time but indictments flew on more Russians today about meddling in 2018 elections. Mostly pro Trump, anti Dem crap. What was it; 3,000 facebook accounts and 9,000,000 posts. Breitbart, WND, InfoWars, many right wing MSM outlets accepted news plants. Worse than fake news, you’ve been reading Pravda News. Did I see all of JRs memes in the Russian troll posts? I think I saw JITs fed reserve comments in there, maybe. Think we’re gonna need to check visa’s soon.... :-).
You’ve been punked, we need to work together to stop the interference —-by anyone. Trump’s response was its not his campaign, there in no collusion and Hillary colluded in 2015 with the Russians. Its 2018 Don; these are 2018 indictments for 2018 elections. Psst, You’re not running this year.
@ SD "The absolute first thing? Every single blessed one? And then on to a life of crime. My goodness, we have much to fear. How does this affect the ones who wait for years? Bad stigma from the fearful?"
So judging by you poking fun at this statement I take it you are absolutely okay with people illegally crossing our boarders?
Darrin - must suck to be you - living in fear..
Life of crime?
Or picking your vegetables?
Life of crime?
Or plucking your poultry?
Life of crime?
Or mowing your lawn?
“ To those that much is given, much is expected.”
There will be a “ special” place for you....
and it won’t be at the head of the table.
Greed is a sin.
Cowardice is sad.
Yet SD and Stymie will gladly see you thrown in jail if you have that dreaded 11th round loaded into a metal box because a pin wasn’t epoxied in... how’s that for a life of crime?
As long as they get their tomatoes picked and law mowed cheaply it’s all good.
So... Saudi Arabia....
What a sticky wicket. An enemy of our enemy is (not really) our friend.
I don't care about the journalist. When you find out who he was related and connected to, it becomes obvious this is MUCH bigger than "he was writing bad things about us." This was not simply a matter of freedom of the press getting someone killed.
He was not a US citizen. It's none of our business, really.
On the flip side, we shouldn't be selling arms to them. On the flip side of that, they are the big power over there helping to keep Iran reigned in, and on the flip side of THAT, they also sponsor terrorism.
As usual- not a black & white situation as so many wish it to be, so they can play identity politics with the issue. All shades of grey. Over a VERY long relationship.
Saudi Arabia is not our friend. They are our ally (a business arrangement), but they are not our friend.
As for Trump's decision to "accept SA's explanation", LOL- whatever. It's a tough position to be in, there's isn't a "right answer". Because.... shades of grey....
Geopolitics: one very large game of Jenga; move the wrong brick, and alot of it comes tumbling down...
Both Darrin and Mark are wrong in my case, not sure what Stymie thinks. Darrin knows I support asylum, without mandatory family separation, and everify to stop illegals from working which ends the need for your stupid wall or having to deal with Russian sponsored caravans. At least like I heard from an unnamed source, just like Trump heard it was the Dems. Nor, beyond the illegal entry, do I think these people arw destined to a life of further crime. Rednecks are morw likely to be criminals than these folks And I have said the NJ law is a waste if that’s what Mark is avoiding plain speak to try to spin; however, I am all for ending LCM’s for private use which NJ already has capped at 15.
Naybe let’s discuss rather than pick fights.
@ Styme "Darrin - must suck to be you"
You don't even know me
Correct Mark, the double standard is at a all time high, and it takes some severe blinders to not see it.
So (adding some narrative straight from SD's play book) SD is fine with people crossing the boarder illegally, and Styme doubles down on that statement with the reasons we need to let people cross the boarder illegally...too bad the best reasons Styme could muster up were some picked tomatoes, plucked chicken, and some cheap lawn mowing......
Sorry but I hunt my own food, grown my own tomatoes, and I even mow my own lawn :->
Tell the truth in plain speak please. Hunt some of your own food, grow some of your tomatoes and assume I am fine with people crossing the boarder illegally.
Worse yet than you purposely making up what you say you assume I think, you know the truth, but, for some stranger reason, just seem to want to pick a fight. HAND.
Yeah JR, a sticky wicket in that even though we need them for squat (they don’t do squat about Iran and they always buy less arms than they say), if they hold on the oil, our prices go up even though we don’t need it.
But maybe instead of crafting excuses for them (rogue agents, give it a rest), at least some verbal condemnation might be in order... A call for a transparent full investigation maybe.
Not our business. I agree. We extinguised that shinning light on the hill on 2017.
One of your better rants :-)
And this is where some are in our country today - What ugliness - someone opened the cave door and let the vile out: https://apnews.com/e7d6a41a335b477698e818cae7c4e032
Now 7000 migrants heading for US border.
The democrats no doubt hoping for violence (especially since Trump has said he'll send the military down to protect the border), or at the very least bad press in hopes of winning just enough seats to control the Senate in midterms (it looks like they already have a good chance of winning the house)....
October..... SURPRISE !!!!
(interesting timing, no? I wonder who is financing this trek, hmm?)
http://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-central-american-caravan-mexico-20181021-story.html
Trump says he knows a guy who knows a guy who knows the Dems are sponsoring it. Trump just loves un-named sources, you love conspiracy theory, and getting your daily Pravda news. Tell us more Commrade.
If the military goes down there to stop those BREAKING THE LAW....family separation is going to be the least of your concerns SD.....
Really...tellus us more oh subtle one....
I note both of you boys opted to ignore the deficit. Interesting.
One of the top issues for Americans is health care. I have summarized Trump’s and the Republican’s plans below;
“Blame Obama.....”
Un-named sources... you mean like the kind CNN and the rest of the MSM uses all the time to trash Trump...
15 more days until Mueller unleashed...…
No, Mets, I mean like the one's Trump makes up that you swallow whole every time. Um, tasty. Just like you feel the press is the "enemy of the people" as your King has decreed.
As of the beginning of September, Trump had cleared 5,000 official, documented, full on lies. That's 10 lies to every physical assault Brietbart collected.
And add one more conservative who doesn't have anything to say about the deficit.
Are you afraid of snowflakes……
Trump tells you: “They will overturn everything we’ve done and they will do it violently,”
Your beloved NRA, the ones who protect what protects you tell you: “They use their media to assassinate real news,” the woman’s voice says scornfully. “They use their schools to teach children that their president is another Hitler. They use their movie stars and singers and comedy shows and award shows to repeat their narrative over and over again.” Did they say schools teach that Trump is Hitler……
Your local thought leaders tell you about 600 examples; it’s all Republicrat duopoly, and other fearful thoughts. The Russians continue to fill your airwaves and your heads with fake facts you make your own.
Yeah, there’s a lot of pushing and shoving going on; people on both sides are calling people making trash talk, and then there’s the real damage of Steve Scalise, but overall, “The Anti-Defamation League’s Center on Extremism reports that right-wingers and white supremacists were responsible for 74 percent of the murders committed by political extremists in the United States over the past decade.”
But wait, there’s more…..
“Terrorists murdered 3,342 people on U.S. soil from 1992 through August 12, 2017. Islamist terrorists are responsible for 92% of all those murders. The 9/11 attacks, by themselves, killed about 89% of all the victims during this time. During this time, the chance of being murdered in a terrorist attack committed by an Islamist was about 1 in 2.5 million per year.
Nationalist and Right Wing terrorists are the second deadliest group by ideology, as they account for 6.6% of all terrorist murders during this time. The 1995 Oklahoma City bombing, the second deadliest terrorist attack in U.S. history, killed 168 people and accounted for 77% of all the murders committed by Nationalist and Right Wing terrorists. The chance of being murdered in a Nationalist or Right Wing terrorist attack was about 1 in 33 million per year.”
That’s the CATO institute’s numbers, a center right media bias organization with a high factual content. So until you come up with some numbers, give it a rest…..
“These narratives about aggressive left-wing violence aren’t just distorted. They are dangerous, because they set the stage for replacing democratic institutions with authoritarian rule. Provoking street violence and blaming it on their opponents is exactly how totalitarian regimes have gained power in the past. The 1931 to 1932 crisis in Germany that culminated in Hitler’s takeover is a case in point…..”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2018/09/28/right-wing-warnings-pose-far-more-danger-america-than-left-wing-violence/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.3e32b5c36c07
https://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2017/08/21/which-ideology-has-inspired-the-most-murders-in-terrorist-attacks-on-u-s-soil/#5f27bae91e74
Whenever you consider whether America should help immigrants trying to escape terrible situations in their own countries, you should be reminded of that great quote on the Statue of Liberty: "No more brown people, America is full."
“Pravda news”
Lol lol lol
Edit for clarification:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ksb3KD6DfSI
SD I turned off CNN when I saw how ridiculous they were during the 2016 election. It also started earlier than that with all the unfair coverage of police. I don't need Donald Trump to tell me it's fake news. I see it on my own. It's all about influence of power.
Reasonable there are ways to come here legally if you are oppressed. Trying to walk over the border isn't the proper way. These people just know they can take advantage of the system that is broken. who are you trying to kid...
Yeah, how about that deficit...…
Come on, I see your sources and how they compare in their level of factual reporting to CNN. And, in case you missed it, I have not watched CNN since Wolfe declared Boston a ghost town as a parade of SUVs passed by.... I do use their hard copy news and have yet to find a fake one in the ones I have read. No one here has disputed any of those sources either. You are deluding yourself with acceptance of The Great Liar's stupid claims: "enemy of the people" my sweet mashed potatoes. With over 5,000 documented lies, faked news is mostly fake because it reports what Trump says.... But you seem to accept Russian meme's, news, and conspiracies (like the mythical Democrat mob you shudder from), no problemo, right? You even deny it even happened. Certainly, your Great Protector didn't do diddly about it, did he. Too busy chasing Latinos and, after all, the meddling only helps him now doesn't it. Wonder who funds that?
So far, the hoard ain't here, so you are alluding to alleged illegality, but sure, whatever you are so afraid of, I can go with that. One would think we could develop a humane way to deal with the situation; not as if we didn't have the planning time..... But that would not be political canon fodder then would it?
Are you really saying that, in your opinion, this caravan is more important than the $1T deficit your King, his tax policy, and his economy, have created? Wow.
Lots of FOX in there JIT...… And another conservative passing on a deficit discussion: I really was holding our hope that JIT was the shining fiscal light upon the hill ----- oh heck, fake news is so much more sexy......
Does anyone even have a statistic on fake news. Perhaps by total occurrence. Or by news outlet?
SD, we are propagandized to daily. That’s the point. You worry about the Russians, as you’ve been told to do like a good little partisan, but clearly, clearly you can’t see the forest through the trees. Stick with the motto of “question everything” and you might be surprised.
Regarding the deficit (never mind the actual debt) my position hasn’t changed and in this we are on the same page. Where we differ is that I’ve come to the conclusion that political party doesn’t matter, so whether it’s trump or the next dem in office the debt must increase because of our debt based monetary system mandates it. The time to change it with little pain has passed and so we do what our generation has always done: more more more until something big breaks. After that who knows?
SD are you high? The tax plan hasn't even been in effect for a year. Where are you coming up with this $1 trillion? And what was paying higher taxes doing for this country? Obama racked up the highest debt in history with those taxes. Did you forget about that? The problem is the swamp creatures we elect just spend wastefully...
Mythical Democrat mob.... LMAO... There's plenty of video to show you are wrong on that one dude...
Jit; you might start with “the Russians did meddle; the Russians continue to meddle. And if you see that independent assessment issued by Republican controlled Executive, Congressional, and Judicial institutions seems to reek of Democrat bias —- I think you need to listen to your own motto. You already suprised me with that judgement call.
And ditto on accepting Dem and Rep deficits as equal. One was stimulus to help the masses ease through the Great Recession; this one is tax cut for the rich and corporate to supercharge the recovery artificially. One saved people, yours saved companies and people who didn’t need it. One was trickle up; this is yrickle down. Huge difference in effect and results.
Mets; throttle back your rudeness please. No, I am not high. Clearly economics not your bag. Not going to help you with that except to say the numbers come from the Trump administration. And they were linked. Your numbers.
Trump did not put us $1 trillion in debt. I've heard that's what SOME experts say will happen over the next decade, but they also didn't factor in economic growth. If the current trend stays in place, close to 4% growth each quarter, then it's hard to believe there will be massive debt.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/188185/percent-chance-from-preceding-period-in-real-gdp-in-the-us/
Look at this growth chart from 2011 to 2018. Trumps economy has been more steady than Obama's. Sure Obama had a few high quarters but he also had a few with negative growth. I'm no expert but I'd say the lack of consistency is why he got us in so much debt.
Mets; the tax plan is for 2018. Savvy taxpayers and all corporations began taking action in 2017. 2018 Corporate profits, and mine, are already taking advantage of the reduced 2018 tax payments. That’s why the Federal tax revenues are down and corporate profits are up.
Trump’s administration is already calling for $1T yearly deficits for years to come. He may easily beat Obama’s debt at this point.
Trickle down has never worked.
Pravda? The Los Angeles Times is now owned by the Russians?
The only sources I post anymore are ones that pass the liberal litmus test, LAT, NYT, CNN, and any of the major networks (except Fox), and you STILL won't accept them. Reality must be a very painful thing for you, SD (we all know it is, it's ok, you can admit it)
Sorry Mets, Trump put us in $779 of debt, his number, and we still have a quarter to go; his experts say $1T a year for a few years forward. It’s year two, he owns it.
The economy was rolling in 2017; he just tax-cut supercharged it for 2018. As expected, by economists, the rich and the corps. pocketed the profits and the only trickle dow was Darrin’s beer drool ;-)
And don’t say wait for more time; you’ve been saying mission accomplished, greatest economy ever, for two years now. Or at least your Debtor King has.
JR; you as of late have indeed turned to the Dark Side and do seem to rely on fake news MSM — or is it legit if you are using it?
However in general, you rarely link or source. You’re more of a “trust me” kind of guy.
You also have focused on the meme lately as your news outlet of choice. Memes are produced at an alarming rate by the Russian Troll Farms because they are so readily accepted by the Trump idolatry crowd. So congrats on the shift to Real News MSM. Now if we could just ween you away from your Russian Trolls with funny pictures... ;-)
In other news, Trump's approval rating (47%) is 2 points higher than Obama's was (45%) at this time before his midterms (2010).
It's going to be interesting to see how much weight the "rule of thumb" of "the president's party loses in the midterms" holds.
Rule of thumb vs approval rating.
Russia investigation vs job growth.
Stormy vs Gorsuch.
Kavanaugh character assassination vs telling the U.N. the way it's going to be.
Democrats shooting up republican baseball games vs.... uh.... Democrats screaming at Sarah Sanders in a restaurant, no wait.....
vs.... democrats torturing Trump voters live on Facebook, no wait, uh.....
democrats declaring themselves Spartacus, dammit, hang on, I'll come up with something.....
“Democrats shooting up republican baseballs games.”
You want to erase that one? Please do so. Besides so many lies; the rudeness of this rhetoric appalls me. Pull it back and erase this.
There is no way to have any discussion at this level.
At Stranger Danger, it was democrat that did shot up the Baseball game just outside of DC.
I do have a question though, If Trump's America is such a hateful, racist place why are there thousands of people walking over 2500 through Mexico to get here?
Irishresq "You want to erase that one?"
Can't erase truth.
"There is no way to have any discussion at this level."
Boy, you got that right, reality-denier.
That's easy Irish " America the Land of the Free" Everything!! Singing "their" National anthem, caring "their" flag. I saw the total is up to 14K and growing. That's more than Hackettstown's population. Sounds more like an invasion to me. Who's feeding them, who's giving them water, where are they defecating? I am concerned about the diseases they will be bringing with them, I worry about the health of our own children, the poor, our seniors. How much of a strain will this put on our health care system, our special services?? Giving everything free to a population the size of Hackettstown is financially irresponsible and reckless for the well being of our own citizens.
https://theweek.com/articles/802798/how-mueller-fairy-tale-ends
Good opinion piece on how the Mueller investigation plays out
Antiel- financially irresponsible?
Like the 1.7 TRILLION vaporized into thin air (aka the top .0001%)?
Really?
Get your head out.
Admit it - to you it has nothing to do with the color green- just the color brown.
oh boy... Stymie playing the racist card..... you libs really need to come up with a new playbook...
Hey, Col. Bonespurs delt this hand.
Ya need new material JR.
Yesterday, you exposed yourself as just another caustic partisan.
Partisan- no worries.
Caustic-troubling.
But please, try and vacate the persona of fair minded libertarian.
Save your costume for Halloween.
Takeaway from the article Skippy linked to:
"The fantasy of a piece of paper that would explain away the painful reality that a buffoonish television host beat a former secretary of state and senator in the 2016 presidential election simply by running a better campaign is not coming true."
"We are now a mere 469 days away from Democrats' 2020 Iowa caucuses. It is time for them to give up on fairy tales and find a candidate who can actually beat this guy."
I don't understand why the democrats haven't seized upon this realization yet, and acted accordingly... I mean, I understand why the rabid followers (like SD) haven't, but the politicians are smarter than that... I thought....
They better get to grooming someone, unless they want a Hillary or Warren ticket in 2020... and I THINK they are smart enough to not want that....
JR says: “Democrats shooting up republican baseball games.” When told “You want to erase that one? Please do so. Besides so many lies; the rudeness of this rhetoric appalls me. Pull it back and erase this. There is no way to have any discussion at this level,” he says: “Can't erase truth…..Boy, you got that right, reality-denier”
It is this type of mindless, name-calling incendiary lies that take the class out of classlessness. They dis our discourse. JR has set a low morality bar without any human compassion whatsoever for his fellow Americans; just like his King practices. And now JR practices it too. Kick the dog, kick him harder when he’s down --- that’s JR’s mantra. He must continue winning even after he as won it all.
Democrats do not shoot up republican baseball games Jr. A single gunman, a supporter of the Independent trying to win, but didn't, the Democratic Primary, shot up a single Republican baseball game. So far, no other Democrats have participated and only a single baseball game was the scene of this terrible tragedy that you now demean and trivialize for your own political fodder of painting the Democrats that you hate in a bad light. The light was bad for all Americans that day, JR, not just for your future spin.
You lied, you spun, and now it's all undone. Totally tasteless deleterious diatribe only meant to inflame those you consider “departed from realty,” or that you consider just “ rabid followers” of that you which you don’t believe.
I know, pot-kettle, Hillary did it first, Obama did it worse, lock her up, locker room talk and all the other little rationales you tell yourself to feel better.
JR's King just promised the middle class a 10% tax break by the time of the mid terms. Good thing he's not a slithering excuse of a putrid politician just looking to buy your vote. No class, no shame.
OH....Congress does not have a clue what the plan is for this
OH... Congress is out and won't vote on anything until AFTER the mid terms
OH.... And Mets was wondering where the $1T 2018 deficit might come from, he said, give it time to perk. Time indeed. Seems to be perking South my friend....
OH....But all politicians lie (wait, Trump's not a politician.....)
OH.... guess Trump finally told you that his tax plan DID FAVOR the rich and the corporations. Do you believe it now? JIT doesn't believe because he has not seen the w2's of all the rich people or the tax returns from the Fortune 500 in order to computerize the results to be sure he can believe his own freakin eyes :>)
Hey Stymie why don't you and SD house some of this caravan coming up to the border since you care so much about the issue... Stop being a lame-o and dragging race into things....
JR likes to incite violence; to inflame people not like him. Nothing better than putting pain in a stranger for JR. He advocates violence, embraces it, practices it, and now attempts to share his fears with others on HL. He feels it is a normal American occurrence and he is proud of his part in it as a master inciter and major hater. Anyone who does not think correctly, JR’s way, is a “rabid follower,” “reality-denier,” “snowflake,” or other little pet names. And then he says it’s OK, it’s pot-kettle you know, Hillary did it first, locker room talk……
It is not OK to have this language in our discourse. It is rude, crude, and without moral attitude. He is not a Kingsman; I am Spartacus. And this is NOT how we have civil discourse on HL. (this goes for Stymie's little diversions as well)
The man who perpetrated this horror may have been a Democrat. “Records show that Hodgkinson registered as a Democrat in the last three presidential primaries, and that for primaries between 1992 and 2008 he did not register with any party. He voted last November, the records show.” (CNN) But Democrats do not shoot up Republican baseball games. One man did. JR's was just a tasteless inflammatory lie intended to make JR feel better by abating his overwhelming fear of those who are different from him. And JR, being the gunny that he is, is completely familiar with this concept of group identification. JR, it’s the man, not the gun or the party affiliations. You use this same rationale all the time in your rants about the 2A.
But here, he just uses it here to inflame those different than he through his tasteless, heartless, crude comments about a terrible tragedy JR is using to make his own political point out of pure spin. "Democrats shooting up republican baseball games" is one big grab bag of hate that JR has created himself for his own purposes. It is a lie.
So far, the act has not been repeated, no one is shooting up Republican baseball games, it was one event. But JR extends this heinous deed to all Democrats who are different from him because he is afraid.
The shooter was politically obsessed; he was a Bernie Sanders supporter. Bernie Sanders is a Independent, a Socialist, who ran in the Democratic Primaries.. He is not a Democrat. The shooters facebook page has the tag line: ““Democratic Socialism explained in 3 words: We the People.”
“Democrats shooting up republican baseball games" is a lie. It is a heartless lie without any compassion. You were politely asked to walk it back. You doubled down on your lie. And now the best you will do is to weasel-word your meaning just like you walk back your frequent calls for violence and insurrection.
When all else fails, pull the race card. It's in the "How to be a Liberal" handbook ;-)
Yeah seriously, how could people possibly make the gigantic leap to racism?
Also, I included the last screenshot only because Darrin misspelled "border" as "boarder" like 40 times in this thread after criticizing someone else's English.
The fact is that a liberally progressive registered democrat did shoot up the republican politicians at a baseball practice. Sorry if the facts are getting in the way of your liberally spun suppositions about how morally superior you are. Maybe consider stepping off your soap box with the all the pontificated lecturing all the time. You don't walk your own talk that's for sure. (hypocrite is what that is)
So stop it already with all your lying, you really put the 'Dis' into civil discourse.
JR is spot on when he says "They better get to grooming someone . . . "
Good point, a big +1 to it for sure. Consider this from Michael Goodwin at the post: (quoted from Katie Pavlich at townhall, link is below):
"Let us run through the parade of likely applicants, starting in the Senate: Bernie Sanders, Cory Booker, Kamala Harris, Elizabeth Warren, Amy Klobuchar and Kirsten Gillibrand. Anybody stand out? While there is political talent, none strikes me as a heavyweight contender who could lead the party and go toe to toe with Trump," Goodwin wrote in a recent column. "Sanders is running on vapors, Booker is a lightweight who embarrassed himself with the Spartacus shtick and Gillibrand is a do-nothing hack. As for Warren, CNN, showing its usual tin ear, moved her to the top of the Dem field just before she imploded with her disastrous DNA test. Her silly repetition of the now-disproven claim that she has significant Native American ancestry opens her to endless ridicule and further diminishes her already narrow appeal."
"Others advertising their availability include Joe Biden, Eric Holder, Montana Gov. Steve Bullock, Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti and former Massachusetts Gov. Deval Patrick," he continued. "Same question: Does anybody in the group look like a champion in waiting? Not to me and, to judge from the lack of great enthusiasm, not to big funders or hot-shot consultants."
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2018/10/22/oped-hillary-should-run-again-and-is-the-only-real-option-democrats-have-n2530786?utm_source=thdailypm&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=nl_pm&newsletterad=&bcid=d44cbf48eb313ab34cc5fb772ab63232&recip=21095195
“Democrats do not shoot up republican baseball games Jr. A single gunman, a supporter of the Independent trying to win, but didn't, the Democratic Primary, shot up a single Republican baseball game.”
But yet every act of racist violence is Trumps / the GOPs fault including the OKC bombing. Got it
You can rationalize JR's malfeasance any way that makes you feel better Skippy; it is what it is.
"The fact is that a liberally progressive registered democrat did shoot up the republican politicians at a baseball practice. Sorry if the facts are getting in the way" Sorry, Grey, while I find your statement abhorrent, that is not what JR said. He attributed this violence to the entire Democratic Party covered baseball games, not game. IOW he attributed a single occurrence to a trend by the entire group of Democrats. While I find your political spin bad enough, his is well below the line of decent discourse. But, that is JR's way:
JR loves to incite violence and then run away from it whenever pushed back. “I never supported such an action. I said it could happen, I said it wouldn't surprise me, I even said that IS what the 2nd Amendment was written for. I never supported it, I ALWAYS say "God forbid" when discussing that subject. I pray we NEVER have to go there.”
He sure sounded a little more manly when he penned what would happen if you touch his 2A: “mark my words (my namesake's actually)... the tree of liberty will be fertilized with the blood of patriots and tyrants, AS THE FOUNDERS INTENDED. Guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens. Buckle up, butter cup!” Do you hear the lack of support? A God forbid? Is “buckle up buttercup perhaps a prayer?
After all, JR constantly says violence is natural: “TJ (Thomas Jefferson) buy (by) all means. I especially like this nugget of advice & wisdom from him: " The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it's (its) natural manure." Advice and wisdom, blood of patriots and tyrants. No prayer, no lack of support. He likes this nugget of advise and consent…
Yet, JR does not like to openly admit his passion for violence, he seems to fear others finding him out. He denies all when pushed, saying: “People don't want to admit it, because it seems so "barbaric", but the main reason for the 2nd Amendment was so the people could suppress a tyrannical govt with another armed revolution, if required.” Or, he parses his passion: “I hate to say it, but it's going to happen. God forbid. I pray to God Jefferson was wrong when he said "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
“I hate to say it, but it's going to happen.”
“I hate to say it, but it's going to happen.”
I hate to say it, but JR frequently advocates violence as a natural event preordained and envisioned by his namesake, a word nerd who never stood on the field of battle or even a skirmish. Can't even find a fist fight. This little journey inside JR's mind (or lack thereof) was just based on a “tree of liberty” search. Wait until you see what he says next…..because he said it, he says it all the time.
Reasonable, is it reasonable to photoshop posts out of order without the relevant context?
" JR has set a low morality bar without any human compassion whatsoever for his fellow Americans "
Woooooooooooo! LOL what planet are you on, dude? Addicted to outrage you are.
I got THREE tome's dedicated to ME!!! Musta' touched a nerve.....
"JR frequently advocates violence as a natural event "
Advocates, no.... PREDICTS, yes. Big difference. Now please- another tome'!!!
“OH.... guess Trump finally told you that his tax plan DID FAVOR the rich and the corporations. Do you believe it now? JIT doesn't believe because he has not seen the w2's of all the rich people or the tax returns from the Fortune 500 in order to computerize the results to be sure he can believe his own freakin eyes :>)”
Come on now, stop making stuff up again. I get that it somehow makes you feel better but really???
Really....aren't you the one that has to have it signed, sealed and delivered before you accept the fact that it's a letter..... And, of course, you did not answer the question either. Just your usual diversionary tactics. But really? I just wondered if you finally figured it out that the Trump tax plan favors the rich and corporations or whether more proof is needed. And no, your usual clap trap does not make me feel better.
Meanwhile......
“Mueller Looking Into GOP Researcher Who Secretly Raised $100,000 to Find Clinton Emails”
“Peter Smith, because he implied to those whom he tried to recruit for the effort that he was connected to several Trump campaign officials — including Steve Bannon, Mike Flynn and Kellyanne Conway.”
“Smith died 10 days after revealing his efforts to the Journal in an apparent suicide.”
Yeah, right…..can you say……:P U T I N. Seems to be a lot of apparent suicides with people this guy knows.
https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/mueller-probe-clinton/2018/10/07/id/885237/
“GOP operative who sued Trump says FBI referred hacking of her email to Mueller “ Don’t even know where this one can be filed…..
And, of course, Trump decided NOT to fire Rosenstein…..for now.
On September 17th, Trump ordered declassification of many FISA documents relating to Page and company. On the 21st, he changed his mind, or what he calls his mind….. https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/21/politics/donald-trump-fisa-declassification-walk-back/index.html
Makes policy choices on a whim and changes them twice as frivolously.
You'll have to explain to me the context in which the phrase, "Muslims need to be eradicated. There's no other answer." is an acceptable point of view.
"....died 10 days after revealing his efforts to the Journal in an apparent suicide.”
Yeah, right…..can you say……:P U T I N. Seems to be a lot of apparent suicides with people this guy knows. "
Replace "Putin" with "Clinton" and this has been going on since James MacDougal/Vince Foster days.
IF you're being intellectually honest, instead of a partisan hack infected with confirmation-bias-spin worthy of inclusion with the grandest conspiracy theories.
Lee Harvey Oswald ring a bell. Democrat who shot and killed President John F Kennedy. Hey Spartacus, how's that shoe fit.
It does not fit well in that you are propagating yet another lie as you are apt to do on a regular basis Auntiel. Probably originated from one of your Russian Troll friends. Oswald was never a Democrat that I can see but he was a Marxist by the time he shot JFK. Marxism is more up Trump’s ally as he respects and honors current Matxist leaders as “strong.”
At least you didn’t slum as low as JR who once again rationalizes his lies by saying “you did it first,so I’m OK.” Since someone has mostly done everything once somewhere, JR can rationalize any heinous behavior when it suits his spin. The Man therefore has no moral fiber, just a big bag of excuses, fake spews, and fake rationalizations. With a streak of violence agitation sprinkled on top.
Typical Trumpets both OK with over 5,000 lies, in writing, in less than two years by their King. They just live to be lied to, they love to lie themselves.
How do you like that Trump health care. Spiffy huh. How about that soaring deficit. Up 20% from year one, the Obama hand-off year. Fiscal maven my sweet tangerine. How many wars did he end? Two years and we still fight then all; we just don’t honor our soldiers enough anymore to even talk about it. Shameful dishonor of our soldiers by Republicans that just don’t care now that Trump truths are in town.
I can't even post on this thread anymore... SDs long winded rants have my eyeballs ready to pop out...
“the Trump tax plan favors the rich and corporations”
I think you’ve got me confused with someone else. I’ve never said - not once - that I disagree with the above statement. Of course Trumps tax cut is for the rich!
What I’ve said over and over again is that in order to prevent a skewed tax benefit (tax code favoring the rich) is to REMOVE all the perks, the carrots-on-a-stick exceptions, that allow the imbalance in the first place. Since you prefer to just steal the money back via *more* taxation (additional taxes while allowing the original perks) I kinda see why you regularly miss my point.
Regardless, take a break dude. You’re going to wind up in the hospital with an aneurism over this stuff.
Oh here we go about deficit again
Money used to protect our country...SD mad and can;t see the point, we are happy
Millions spent on freebies and handouts....SD jumping for joy, we are mad
It's so black and white its rediculous.
You claim we "ignore"all while you are blatantly ignoring the fact that a angry mob is currently marching towards out boarder demanding entry......are you freaking kidding me right now SD?
Your grasp of money is nill.
Why would you think I am ignoring the walking crowd. Mike Pence says in any crowd this large, there has to be terrorists. Donald Trump says he knows a guy who knows a guy who said the Dems are paying for it. You have decided they are angry and have demands. I heard those lies. My comments are noted above.
Today, not in the past, we need to concentrate on attracting educated immigrants. Manual labor jobs will decline over time so the majority of these people will just add to the legions requiring social programs to live, not adding value to this great country...
I admit I goofed. I typed quickly before I left the house in a hurry. #1 I forgot JFK was a Democrat. Not like the militant Democrats of today. #2 Lee was not a Democrat, he was a registered Communist. At the time the Democrats accused Lee as being a Republican. Sorry iJay, I don't know if your old enough to remember the details or not, but the conspiracy theories have been debunked many moons ago. That's ok. I heard on the news (ABC) the total is 7,000 (could be fake). Who knows where all these people are from, making their trek to America. Now my question is to SD what do we do with 7,000 people?? Do we open PV's gate and let them enter and let Allamuchy taxpayers worry about taking care of them??
Why was he (Lee Harvey Oswald) killed execution-style by Zionist Jew criminal Jack Ruby?
@SD "My comments are noted above"
I must have missed them while skipping over your numerous posts that are nothing but a baseless broken record....lets be serious here....you have completely consumed this forum with essay long posts chanting the same thing over and over, and quite honestly you have lost a lot of readers, including me.
With that being said...if you did in fact post your feelings on the walking crowd I am not going to even attempt to find it, you can re post if you want to discuss as I am all for having a discussion, but if your going to continue to attempt to "beat" your feelings into people, i am not interested in getting involved with you....hence my stood back approach to you lately.
But if were gonna discuss, I will start with this
https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/video/3955909-mexico-border-gate-torn-down-as-migrant-caravan-heads-north-towards-us/
yeah...real peaceful....already tearing down boarder gates
Some more:
https://www.npr.org/2018/10/21/659327955/migrant-caravan-grows-to-5-000
a interesting take from the arcticle...."Reporter James Fredrick was in southern Mexico and spoke to NPR's Lulu Garcia-Navarro on Sunday. He observed officials stopping migrants from crossing the bridge that stretches over the Suchiate River, which is the legal crossing between Guatemala and Mexico. Mexican Federal Police, however, did not stop those migrants who crossed the river by swimming or using rafts.
A group of Central American migrants cross the Suchiate River aboard a raft, on the the border between Guatemala and Mexico, in Ciudad Hidalgo, Mexico on Saturday. After Mexican authorities slowed access through the border bridge to a crawl, hundreds of migrants are boarding the rafts or wading across the river and crossing into Mexico illegally."
so mexico tried to control this crossing, and these people took to rafts and just crossed illegally
I can continue on, but don't want to overwhelm you with actual facts
Here's a thought... how is this group of 7,000 people eating and drinking? Someone must be funding them.
iJay- I remember seeing it live on television. I think it was more of an assassination because it was political. Although it was carried out as an execution.
What political cause? Cuba, US Mafia, Israel, CIA, Right-Wing Coup. One would figure all of the documents should be released right...
Look, we’re supposed to support asylum. If we still do, then follow what I believe to be the process under Obama. They first fast track review claims and send the croppers home. Vetted asylum seekers go to court, get a date, get a bracelet and return on their court date where final syylim status is determined by the court
Implement everify nationally and no illegals get work without complete fake ID. If you can’t work, why come.
"Look, we’re supposed to support asylum."
Due process.
Get in line. Wait your turn. Fill out the forms. Wait. If this means families are unfortunately separated in an effort to protect the children, and you have to live in air-conditioned tents, then that's what it means, while your case for ASYLUM (not legal immigration/green card) is reviewed. If you are found to have an actual case for asylum, we will grant it.
You expect gun owners- American CITIZENS- to follow a plethora of laws, and jump through any number of hoops- one of which is submitting to a background check- before they can purchase a firearm. I find it highly hypocritical that you have no problem letting in 10,000 unknown people with little to no due process.
Any anyone who thinks this is some kind of "organic" happening, "just a bunch of poor people who want our help".. ALL AT THE SAME TIME... and that this wasn't planned and does not have an ulterior/political motive.... I'm not sure you're intelligent enough to keep the right to vote. Perhaps, fill out some forms, submit yourself to a background check, then wait at least 6 weeks for a voter ID card, so we can be sure you can be "trusted" with the power that is the vote.
Uh Oh.- JeffRep had nightmares last night.
He woke up with a plan to decide WHO can vote and what hoops he decides are necessary to jump through to EARN the right to vote.
Hemrhoids still bleeding? Or is that from your ulcerated soul?
See your Doctor.- Medical or otherwise.
"At the president's discretion, I spoke to President Hernandez of Honduras," Pence said. "He told me that the caravan that is now making its way through Mexico, headed for the southern border, was organized by leftist organizations and financed by Venezuela"
-VP Mike Pence
But, he's probably just LYING, right? Pretty specific for a lie.
Interesting that the great socialist mecca that is Venezuela can't afford to feed it's own people, can't afford to provide running water for all it's people, but it can afford to finance a great migration across Latin America to our southern border.
source: ABC news
https://abcnews.go.com/US/trump-admits-proof-middle-easterners-caravan/story?id=58686056
Stymie-
Actually, you missed the POINT. Apparently you don't get sarcasm well; likely because you're too blinded and consumed by your hypocrisy.
" I'm not sure you're intelligent enough to keep the right to vote." What a jerk-wad of a statement. If ignorance is bliss, you are the most blissful person here. Between you and Darrin, you really work on keeping the conversation going….. This is not how to achieve that goal. (I know pot/kettle, I did it first, you are so, so, picked upon...poor baby....)
JR, there is no legal reason that an asylum seeker can't present themselves at the border. That is the law. Think about it, asylum, the concept and the need. You want to demand to shelter in place while waiting on the paperwork. Sitting, waiting, sort of flies in the face of needing asylum in many cases, don't you think?
Both methods of processing asylum seekers, yours and mine, are "legal." Mine is just more compassionate, yours is less so. Mine is just less expensive, yours is more expensive. Both guarantee about the same level of people following the process and returning to court. In either process, there is no need to separate families, that's a choice.
I find it humorous that you jump on the Pence Honduras (whom Trump is about to cut off for not being our friend) Venezuelan funding bandwagon wholeheartedly believing the biggest liars in Presidential history upon message receipt. For the record:
- Trump blamed the Democrats for funding the caravan.
- Pence said they arrest 10 Middle Eastern terrorists a day at the border, that's up from the 7 a day he claimed earlier this year.
- Trump said there are middle east terrorists in the caravan
- Pence added that in any crowd of 7,000, you will find Middle Eastern terrorists
- Trump said there are mostly criminals in the caravan
- Trump said Democrats want to give the caravan people cars
- Trump and Pence said Californians are rioting in sanctuary cities
These are all blatant lies so I find it incredulous that you would immediately suck up and accept the Venezuela story immediately upon receipt. A sheeple on steroids perhaps. May I remind you that the Trump lie meter has exceeded 5,000 since he entered office. That's close to 10 documented lies a day coming from this administration. Documented. We have the list. In writing. I would have to imagine that in this election cycle, we are way above that average. Waaaaay.
Size wise, this caravan represents 70% of Hackettstown or two of High Schools the size I matriculated from. If everyone of them needed asylum, I am pretty sure the US can suck this one up. The point is can we follow the law and, if possible, in the most humane way that's economically feasible. In this care, we can evensave money by being more compassionate rather than artificially being mean.
Game on Tiny. Only two weeks until Mueller time returns......
-
"JR those two are blinder than bats. It's really pathetic."
Another guy who delights in civil discourse and getting people to open up. Won't be happy until he's the only guy in his echo chamber.
SD you really think 7000 people just decided one day to start walking up here? Someone organized this crap. Someone organized food and shelter for these people on their trek. If not a lot of them would be dying along the way. You're in your own echo chamber if you can't see that.
Who's Tiny?
"Won't be happy until he's the only guy in his echo chamber."
YOU must be VERY happy then, SD. Well, you do have Stymie for company...
https://calmatters.org/articles/homeless-in-california-what-the-data-reveals/
if admitted where do you think these people are going SD? most likely California.
California has almost 25% of the nation's homeless population at about 135,000 which is up 14% in 2017 from 2016. Los Angels County has 55,000 alone.
But...lets just let everybody in?
https://nypost.com/2018/10/23/trump-uses-old-obama-clip-to-make-immigration-point/?utm_source=facebook_sitebuttons&utm_medium=site%20buttons&utm_campaign=site%20buttons
Gee it was ok when Obama made a statement like this. Now if Trump or the Republicans say it it's racist and inhumane.... Give me an effing break...
It is desperation JR. All the Dems were the same way.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/democrats-illegal-immigration-tune-has-changed-over-years-despite-incoming-caravan
You folks are listening for the dog whistles from your self-anointed Nationalist leader, who happens to also be white. I take it, like Trump, you all are Nationalists too. You are in fine company as other recent famous Nationalists, from WIKI lists, include:
Tomislav Nikolić (Serbia) Aleksandar Vučić (Serbia)
Viktor Orbán (Hungary) Narendra Modi (India)
Rodrigo Duterte (Philippines) Vladimir Putin (Russia)
Dmitri Medvedev (Russia) Xi Jinping (People’s Republic of China)
Mohammed bin Salman (Kingdom of Saudi Arabia) Donald J. Trump (United States of America)
Rubén Berríos Martínez (Puerto Rico) David Orchard (Canada)
Gerry Adams (Ireland) Mark Durkan (Ireland)
Nick Griffin (United Kingdom) Mel Hurtig (Canada)
Maude Barlow (Canada) Jared Taylor (United States)
Nigel Farage (United Kingdom) Juan José Ibarretxe (Basque Country)
Meir Kahane (Israel) Toshio Tamogami (Japan)
Harry S. Weeks (United States) Plínio Salgado (Brazil)
Augustus Invictus (United States) Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud (Saudi Arabia)
How many of these are Kings, Dictators, or just tater-heads. Mob rule indeed.
"Cal had a proposition to secede"
PLEASE!!!! BUH-BYE!!!! lol
------------------------------------------------
You realize that California has the 5th largest economy in the WORLD, right? Only the USA, China, Japan and Germany have a larger GDP. It represents one-seventh of the total USA GDP. Their secession would probably be disastrous for the US economy.
Yeah and it's also bigger in square miles than most countries and has 40 million people. What's your point? Let them be their own country. Who cares... The state is wacked... Nancy Pelosi and Maxine Waters would be gone. It would be a good thing.
Mets, you little spinner you. As you conflate illegal immigration with asylum with family separation with dreamers as all things being the same, you miss the reality of the big picture to focus on your surreal interpretation of what is happening.
No one is for continued illegal immigration, never will be, never have been.
Asylums is different than illegal or legal immigration.
Family separation is NOT about following the law (Trump proved himself a liar on that one), it is about sending a message of meanness. Advertising why you don't want to come here because we are subhuman enough to do that.
As I said, the process is something like you declare asylum. Then they are incarcerated and put through an expedited removal, or deportation proceedings. Those that don't vet go home.
Those who vet then get further vetted on their way to court where they either are deported or continue the process, released, hopefully with the bracelet, and to return for final court case and disposition (now the lawyer get involved).
Those deported, and any other non asylum seekers are free to attempt to immigrate in the normal fashion, normal paperwork.
But, according to our treaty, we have open doors for people to attempt the asylum process whether you come by car, boat, or caravan. Non asylum seekers use normal immigration processes.
And then you have the illegals. No one has an issue no letting these folks in. I think we all agree on that. Some of us have an issue tossing out the ones who have been here for some time, those born here, and those who can proved themselves valuable and viable citizens. To stop illegal workers, the answer has been painfully obvious as ep-verify being the answer. Why both sides are not making this the law of the land should be where you ire is placed. Why are not McConnell and Ryan screaming about this and anyone who just says NO. With e-verify, illegal workers will be out of work literally overnight. Why we even argue about this is beyond me.
So, given the differences in reactions to the different types of immigration, I just don't know what your problem is except by conflating them together to scare the heck out of yourself. We actually agree about asylum except as to the process of asylum especially as it relates to families. I see no reason to go out of our way to be cruel to someone who is in danger and looking for safety. We also agree that illegal immigration should be stopped. I just see the wall as an utterly stupid notion and you can't understand e-verity apparently. I also don't see this current caravan as a tsunami of immigrants looking to drown out our middle class. Even if we let this entire group in no questions asked, it's like adding two good sized High Schools to America. We have 20,000 High Schools today. What's two more. I don't think we would notice any overcrowding really. As far as public safety, these folks, historically and statistically are safer than your normal average redneck, yuppie or millennial in terms of crimes committed.
So, I think we are closer on this one than you are indicating, it's just that you seem to be treating all the different elements of immigration as one and therefore come away with some different attitudes by mis-assessing the situation. I think.
Really, Metsman? Do you think that if they left, that we would need to spend LESS money on National Defense? The answer is no. So how do you propose to make up for the $400-500 billion that California pays in federal taxes? Obviously some of that money is spent back in the state, but CA is one of the biggest losers when it comes to federal spending versus federal taxes.
Russia is 42 times the size of California geographically, has 3.5 times the population (145M, give or take) and has a GDP that is about HALF of what California's is. CA GDP per capita is $69,500; Russia's is less than $11,000.
90-99% of our fruits and nuts (pun not really intended) and vegetables come from California. Are we going to start growing them in Kansas now?
You've got a very narrow worldview and aren't seeing the big picture.
Yeah and how many people in California are collecting welfare and from other federal programs. There's your money made up right there.
Well as ianimal said, California is actually one of the least dependent states in terms of federal assistance (ranked 39th). Interestingly enough 4 out of the 5 most dependent states are Trump states (Kentucky, Mississippi, Alabama, and West Virginia). So maybe if we want to spend less in welfare like you're suggesting, we should remove those states from the country.
https://wallethub.com/edu/states-most-least-dependent-on-the-federal-government/2700/
"Asylum is different than illegal or legal immigration"
Agree, but when most of those in the caravan were asked why did they want to come to America. the answer was jobs. In fact one guy said he wants to build houses in Los Angeles. No doubt they will be coached up before they reach the border to say asylum.
I am sure you meant to say, most who were asked versus your "most of those in the caravan....." since I doubt they covered 3501 people in their survey :>)
Coached, uncoached, paid by Democrats, paid by Venezuela, terrorists, arabs, nabbing 10 terrorists a day at the border ----- FACT IS -- we should know. Seems strange that we know more about the Jamal Khashoggi murder than we do 7,000 people at our back door. Why doesn't Trump know more? Might be a nice idea before we plunk down a few thousand soldiers. Better yet, why doesn't he set up an expedited removal or deportation proceeding triage area right where the caravan is today so we can turn back the non-asylum candidates ASAP.
Seems to not be very much proactive happening besides fear mongering lies and political pontifications happening. Perhaps some real action.....might be warranted.
Sorry, got to get away from the job and back to the mob. Dinner's waiting...… Game on Tiny.
You don’t think someone is funding it? Answer these questions:
• When was the last migrant caravan crisis timed politically?
• How did 4,000 migrants march from Honduras to the US border in just a couple weeks, exactly timed to coincide with mid-terms?
• How was the caravan supplied? Do you know the logistics required to supply a 4,000 person caravan for thousands of miles? Food, water, clothing, shoes, etc?
• Why did the caravan have top of the line designer strollers and liberal US t-shirts in English?
This entire thing is a “wag the dog” worthy political stunt, orchestrated by someone with democratic interests (doesn’t have to be the DNC directly) to make Trump look bad right before midterms.
Thanks to the Don and all the Don has done for America, his BFF Vlad has issued: "Thank God, this situation of a unipolar world, of a monopoly, is coming to an end," Putin said. "It's practically already over." noting the US as a falling to second rate superpower status: "Putin added that he wasn’t trying to offend anyone with his remarks and that he believed the end of American dominance would make the world more balanced and allow for more international dialogue."
Of course, Don has very little to say back.....Sit Don, Good Don
https://abcnews.go.com/International/putin-us-dominance-ending-mistakes-typical-empire/story?id=58611354
This came after Vlad walked all over tough guy Bolton who somehow is decidedly un-tough today in face-to-face with Vlad after his Trump neutering. Vlad started by asking Bolton: ""I have a question: Has your eagle picked all the olives and only has arrows left?" Putin asked with a laugh" Bolton took it like a man...…and then struck back:
“I hope there isn’t any meddling at all,” Mr. Bolton said, referring to the November vote, which will determine with party controls the U.S. House and Senate.“We will be examining all the information on the ongoing basis, but particularly after the elections,” Mr. Bolton said." I guess Bolton missed the new indictments shooting his hope right in the change purse. Idiot.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/bolton-says-trump-would-welcome-meeting-with-putin-next-month-in-paris-1540327189
Quit wasting our time and money on this Russian fool with his piss-ass economy and warped reality on human rights. Why even give him any time at all on the world's stage.
"This entire thing is a “wag the dog” worthy political stunt, orchestrated by someone with democratic interests (doesn’t have to be the DNC directly) to make Trump look bad right before midterms."
You do know that caravans have been coming for years now, don't you? Why is this one so different in terms of organization and funding? How did the others make it without support from Democrats, Venezuelans, or the Muslim terrorists?
And yet you can't see a glimmer of light for Russian collusion...…
And yet you can't see a dark side in over 5,000 lies in less than two years...…
But don't show you his taxes, that would be telling and you can't see that.....
When you get some proof, any proof, let us know. Meanwhile, and I know conspiracy buffs like yourself don't want to know the news, since it's all fake except what you post :>) but as far as how the caravan is organized.....
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2018/10/24/migrant-caravan/1747721002/
And they've been doing it for 15 years: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/who-s-behind-migrant-caravan-drew-trump-s-ire-n862566
You just can't stand to find the facts: https://www.politico.com/story/2018/10/23/migrant-caravan-facts-trump-border-881006
Could just as easily be Putin, trying to make the Democrats look bad, by giving Trump something to point to and say: "See. The Democrats are trying to make me look bad." As for the strollers and t-shirts they were probably made in the factory in China next to the one where Trump's ties are made and the t-shirts with the liberal messages are obviously a frame job. Do you think they're that stupid? If they have all this cash, why would they not just give them non-descript t-shirts?
Not that I believe the above, but absent evidence, your suppositions are just as empty. Where's the proof? SD draws a far more plausible picture of Trump being Putin's sock puppet than you do of the caravan being the Soros Central American tour... not that I believe him either, but your side is equally as nutso.
I think it's ridiculous to think either party is funding this for the record. But if any party was funding it, wouldn't it be the Republicans? A caravan of immigrants heads towards the border and big, strong Donald Trump is here to protect America from the scary brown people? And wearing liberal US t-shirts? I mean you don't think that's a little over the top?
Again, for 15 years, there have been caravans. Why would the financing have to be any different for this one? Wouldn’t it be more plausible for this caravan to be funded the same way?
And Iman, show me the crazy? Really; I will be nice ;-). I say its “nutso” not to believe in something in what I have uncovered. Someting?
I wouldn’t expect anyone to believe the entire circumstantial aspects but the fact base is stellar. And yes, he is a financial fraud and cheat. He has made billions from Russians. He has taken millions in Russian investment. His bank launders Russian money. His Campaign Managers are criminals with deep ties to Russia. There were many Russian meetings, Muslim/Russian meetings, and a number of pro-Russia campaign and Federal decisions made that are strangely pro Russian. These are all factually supported so where you go from there is based on how you view it circumstantially.
So, show me the nutso...;-/
DJIA down another 600 points (-2.5%) today and the NASDAQ is down another 325 (-4.5%). On the bright side, if this keeps up, the caravan is gonna turn around and go home...
Just remember that a major component of GDP is government spending, and much of that is really fueled by debt.
So what is California’s debt to gdp ratio? Additionally, the question should be asked what debt is not included? Are unfunded liabilities in the mix?
At least debt to gdp gives any gdp number some sorely needed context imo because it tends to neutralize the typically obfuscated reality of gdp that’s driven by debt-fueled government spending. Which, btw, I maintain is not healthy (excessive govt spending) because the govt has only two primary methods of funding: take from its citizens or take in debt. Neither of those options is good in the long term imo.
"not that I believe him either, but your side is equally as nutso."
You know what else is? Believing thousands of people, all at once, decided to cross 3 countries to get to America... together.... by midterms. LOL There's nothing "organic" about this, it was planned... regardless of organized it (altho I do have to say, "community organizing" is a hallmark of the LEFT....)
The fact remains that we can’t keep letting just anyone in. And this stupid law that we have to let these people go off free into our country after a certain amount of time is insane. Those people are probably never heard from again. Some of them commit crimes. Some of them murder people. Sure there are some good people mixed in, but are you willing to take that chance? It’s pretty obvious we have illegals in Hackettstown. We just had an ICE bust over the summer. If SD lost one of his kids to an illegal immigrant he’d be pretty upset. You still gonna call for letting every person claim asylum…. because it’s disingenuous… They’re here for jobs and to take advantage of the crappy systems we have in place that they’ll benefit from. Some are here to smuggle in drugs. Some are here to be part of MS-13. Lets stop with the stupidity. You can’t polish a turd and have it be something better.
1.. The organization behind the caravans is called Pueblo Sin Fronteras. - they ran the last one too. It is readily apparent hat they were/ are timed intentionally for the elections. The stared mission of this organization is certainly a political one. This is a deliberate act to enact political change.
http://www.pueblosinfronteras.org/viacrucis.html
Now, who's funding them? I don't know.. Frankly, it doesn't matter who's funding them. It's a leftist / open border group that is deliberately trying use this caravan as a message during the election. (read influence / meddle ) Who has categorically donated to open border / socialist / left wing groups? Soros - certainly, but there is also Hollywood, Bloomberg and a whole host of others.
What is the real distinction we are making here? Are we going to say that the DNC is behind it? No. Clearly SOME Democrats have to be behind it - many are in support for sure.
2. Now use some critical thinking here - it is dubious that they are providing 10,000 people with food and transportation across Mexico on grass-roots donations.
a.. They only have ~10,500 Facebook likes and ~3500 Twitter followers, which doesn't really add up to an organization that can "Grass-roots" fund something like this on small donations. It stands to reason that there are either other orgs and donors are involved in some way.
the above is based on the following:
What is this organization?
https://www.influencewatch.org/non-profit/pueblo-sin-fronteras/
"The Pueblo Sin Fronteras (“People Without Borders”) is a project of La Familia Latina Unida, a Chicago, Illinois-based 501(c)(4) illegal immigration advocacy organization formed in 2001 by Elvira Arellano, an activist for immigrants living illegally in the United States. The organization is affiliated with the Chicago-based 501(c)(3) pro-illegal immigration groups Centro Sin Fronteras and Pueblo Sin Fronteras."
La Familia Latina Unida? Who are they?
https://www.influencewatch.org/non-profit/la-familia-latina-unida/
Elvira Arellano, an illegal immigrant from Mexico, former fugitive from U.S. immigration authorities, and activist for illegal immigrants in the U.S., formed La Familia Latina Unida as an expansion of the Centro Sin Fronteras.
Centro Sin Fronteras now? Who are they?
https://www.influencewatch.org/non-profit/centro-sin-fronteras/
The Centro Sin Fronteras (“Center Without Borders”), officially the Centro Sin Fronteras Community Services Network, is a left-wing 501(c)(3) illegal immigration activist organization. The Center was founded in Chicago, Illinois in 1987 by Emma Lozano.
OK. - critical thinking time again. why would one person have several non-profits sharing the same mission? It certainly wouldn't be to create a difficult to investigate web of organizations and people?
Centro Sin Fronteras has been around the longest and is the "parent" corporation so lets look there:
Who is on their board of directors?
The Centro Sin Fronteras board of directors includes Cecilia Garcia, Anita Rico, and Walter Coleman. Cecilia Garcia is president of LULAC Council 5311, the Chicago affiliate of the League of United Latin American Citizens (LULAC).
What's LULAC?
https://www.influencewatch.org/non-profit/league-of-united-latin-american-citizens/
The League of United Latin American Citizens (LULAC) is a left-of-center organization founded in 1929 that advocates on behalf of left-of-center Hispanic interests. LULAC’s initiatives are executed through programming, political advocacy, and individual member participation at the local level.
Who runs LULAC?
Sindy M. Benavides is the chief executive officer of LULAC and replaced previous CEO Brent Wilkes. Previously, she was a political director for the 2012 campaign of U.S. Senator Tim Kaine (D-Virginia) and served as a director of community outreach at the Democratic National Committee.
So a board member at Centro Sin Fronteras is President of LULAC, whose CEO was Tim Kaine's campaign directed and Director of Community Outreach at the DNC?
But this isn't a left wing funded migrant caravan at all. It's just a non-political migrant caravan that happens to be funded by left-wing organizations out of Chicago with ties to Tim Kaine and the DNC.
Centro Sin Fonteras' webpage
https://fluenglish.wordpress.com/about/
"Founded by Emma Lozano in 1987 to keep the legacy of her brother Rudy Lozano alive, Sin Fronteras is one of Chicago’s oldest existing Mexican organizations. For years, Sin Fronteras led the struggle to end school overcrowding, for adequate housing and health but soon found itself in the middle of the fight for legalization. Sin Fronteras brought thousands of petitions to Congressman Luis Gutierrez in 1997 urging him to introduce the first bill for legalization – which he did. The partnership between Sin Fronteras and Congressman Gutierrez, who has become the leader in this cause in Congress continued and grew stronger over the years."
So now we have a direct correlation to a sitting representative https://gutierrez.house.gov/
Back to Pueblo Sin Fronteras - lets look into Walter "Slim" Coleman, the husband of Emma Lozano the current executive director.
Turns out, this guy has been a high profile left-wing activist in Chicago for decades. He seems very well connected. He speaks at Harvard, he went to Harvard in fact, he released a book in 2012:
https://fluenglish.wordpress.com/2012/07/29/rev-colemans-70th-birthday-celebration-makes-his-new-book-available/
In his book you will find "he helped start the Harold Washington Coalition which propelled Obama to the White House and the national immigration struggle, the betrayals, the sell outs – and the faith of ordinary people which surrounded a champion, Luis Gutierrez, in order to win at least temporary protection for the people TO CONTINUE THE STRUGGLE…"
Who is Harold Washington?
The first black mayor of Chicago - "Slim" per his account was in his inner circle,
What is the "Harold Washington Coalition"?
a series of voting groups that claim to have led to Obama's election victory. In addition "Slim" is claiming deep ties to various Chicago groups helped get Obama his start.
So, to summarize:
1. We have a caravan organized and funded by a left wing Chicago-based non-profit, 2. Said director of this organization is married to a long-term left-wing activist in Chicago who claims to have helped Obama get started in politics.
3. This non-profit is closely linked to another non-profit Centro Sin Fronteras,of which one of their board members is the sitting President of LULAC,
3. the same organization whose CEO was Tim Kaine's campaign director and Director of Community Outreach at the DNC.
Now tell me again how is this caravan is sponsored by Putin.
"And this stupid law that we have to let these people go off free into our country after a certain amount of time is insane. "
ABSO-F&*KING-LUTELY.
But that's when happens when common sense has been sacrificed in the name of political power and politician's careers.
Break out the tin foil. We have ignition!
Houston, we have a problem.
I see no signs of intelligent life.
Get your hands off me, you damned dirty ape.
In the end, Highlander, there can be only one.
Game on Tiny.
Guess you can’t spew anifa trash talk anymore....How many bombs, how many places?
A lot of these crazy assumptions are based one one little tidbit:
When migrants get to the US border, are they strolling up to the nearest border entry point and claiming asylum or are they trying to bypass the gate and sneak in?
Assuming the caravans will choose option one then I have to wonder if that’s actually the perfect cover for other not-so polite folks to choose option two. Would be interesting to find out the count of both.
Why not SD? All assassinations in the US so far have been done by the left or that one anarchist in 1890 or something like that. Every few years a right wing-nut will bomb an abortion mill, but that's the exception not the norm. The left has the market cornered on direct action against the collective.
Asylum is for political distress or war zones, and if Chicago doesn't qualify as a war zone then Central America doesn't qualify. Unless those homeless camps out West were a result of Baltimore and St. Louis riots, arson, and looting. However they didn't get asylum either. So if you want to come to the US, get in line and don't tell us what we owe you because we can't even help our own citizens.
And then there’s gate closures, bridge blocking, extended gaye waits, immediate deportation based on bad communication—-many reasons one might say screw it abd gead for the river. If asylum seeking, they immediately say....and end up on a different asylum process. Skippy can detail. He knows this.
Much evidence of US pushback at the crossings. Whole system needs a cleaning. Probably pretty rough jobs.
Jit, I seem to renember you crapping all over me for using the debt/gdp ratio the first time I rolled it out a few years back
I’m so proud of your adoption; giant tear forming in keft eye ;-/
What I like in how it normalizes debt across the ages like when we used to say: mortgage should be 25% of take home...:
In this case we normalize to; we haven’t been this $@@&’ed since WWII and at least we were smiling on that one :-(. This time we just don’t care and that’s a very dangerous thing.
"Guess you can’t spew anifa trash talk anymore....How many bombs, how many places?"
hmmm.
For the last two years Hillay, Schumer, Waters, Warren, and other DNC leaders have been encouraging and stirring up their useful idiots into a frothing rage.
"When you see a member of that cabinet, get in their face" - Maxine Waters
"I want you to get in their face" - Obama
"We say no peace, no sleep. No peace, so sleep. " - Maxine Waters
"If you see anybody from that Cabinet in a restaurant, in a department store, at a gasoline station, you get out, and you create a crowd, and you push back on them, and you tell them they’re not welcome anymore, anywhere.” - Also Maxine Waters
"If we are fortunate enough to win back the House and or the Senate, that's when civility can start again," - Hillary Clinton.
Kavanaugh and his wife received multiple death threats.
Steve Scalise was shot.
Rand Paul attacked in his yard.
Rand Paul threatened to be killed and chopped up with an ax.
I wont even include the multiple attempts on Mattis.
How many threats made against Trump including multiple arrests? Ricin etc
Meanwhile Antifa & BAMN is either being either ignored or justified by every single MSM Liberal with a camera and air time.
We are supposed to believe right wing terrorists suddenly mailed 6 crudely made pipe bombs to democrats not currently in power as well as CNN and Soros - two weeks before an election - all with conspicuously obvious explosives, all were easily screened and discovered without incident. Exposed timer buttons that could be pressed during transit change the detonation change or prematurely setting of the explosive
sure seems like something designed for maximum political/media optics, not maximum damage.
predicted CNN reports:
"Although it could not be tied to President Trump or Lindsay Graham, we are reporting that it may be the work of nationalist Republicans who resemble a new form of ISIS ideology.
Jim Acosta is up next, Jim?"
“I’m so proud of your adoption; giant tear forming in keft eye”
Sorry to burst your bubble, but due to how gdp is calculated (it includes, albeit indirectly, lots of govt debt) I frown on both references. Debt to GDP just indicates how much of gdp is driven by borrowing from the future vs real economic growth.
It's surprising to you that three of the people/organizations (Obama, Hilary, and CNN) that Trump can't stop bashing is mailed three bombs? And you think the democrats mailed themselves bombs?
AIso, I thought you didn't like to use the actions of individuals to characterize the larger group?Just curious, would you classify the Charlottesville nazi terrorist who drove his car into a crowd of people protesting a nazi march, a democrat or a republican? I know it's hard to figure out who was the bad guy there since Trump said there were bad people on both sides of that one.
Ssssh Reasonable......when they lose they whine, when they win, they whine. There’s a similarity there but I just can’t grasp it.....
And now everything is the Dems fault. Caravan coming; this one’s sent by Dems. Bombs away; sent by Dems. No Healthcare, its the Dems killing ObamaCare. I told you they like to eat their own. How did Pelosi get inside that Emassy with a bone saw. Oh yeah, burka. No wall, its the Dems. What about that Hurricane: Dems. The best was Hillary in a Putin Pantsuit bashing on the Don for losing world dominance.
You poor, poor conservatives. Running out groups to whine about.
I think whomever did this is crazy and not representative of the larger group - thst ebjng my point. I also don’t think they went through mail processing -the postage was insufficient and they would have not made it that far.
Reasonable what makes you think the Nazi is affiliated with any party? I love how people assume the guy is a Republican. I don't remember reading anything linking the guy to a party. They did however link the Scalise shooter to being a deranged Bernie supporter. We don't know who's responsible for the bombs. That's why the authorities are doing an investigation.
And besides.... why would you send bombs to people who don't matter anymore, and aren't in govt. or up for re-election? It's not like the baseball game where the guy was trying to take out SITTING representatives. Scalise (and all the other republicans there), Paul, Mattis.... all CURRENT representatives.
Obama, Clinton, Soros (hell he's not even IN govt), Holder... not even currently serving.
Only Watters, Schultz, and maybe Cuomo (he claimed to have gotten a suspicious package too, but I haven't seen that verified yet, maybe it has been) are actually currently serving.
Besides insanity, what's the point of killing Obama, Clinton, Soros, and Holder? If not insanity, it's only to make the republicans look bad. How convenient this happens during the caravan, and shortly after the Kavanaugh debacle.... ALL within a month of midterm elections... but that's just a coincidence, I'm sure.
Let's wait and see what the investigation turns up (I have a feeling it won't turn up anything.)
Oh, NOW I get it... republicans sent the bombs to democrats, knowing that the democrats would blame the republicans, then the republicans are using reverse psychology to show they wouldn't have sent them in order to make it look like the democrats sent them.
Or maybe the democrats sent them to themselves, knowing the republican would get blamed, and then use reverse psychology, which would make it look like the republicans were "protesting too much", hence guilty.
Maybe the GOP sent those bombs, to try to make Trump look bad, because they really want him gone too, so that way the GOP will help the dems win the House, knowing if they do they will impeach Trump, the interloper. LOL
I just think it's quite interesting that all this has happened within earshot of a very close midterm election...
-Kavanaugh is a serial gang rapist 35 years after it allegedly happened.
-10,000 people are heading for the border, where Trump has said he'll "use military" to keep them from entering illegally.
-all of a sudden, after TWO YEARS, a handful of Democrats get bombs mailed to them.
And besides, if you were really a republican looking to kill some democrats, after all that has happened recently, wouldn't Pelosi be on the top of your list? LOL
Remember when all those wait staff who claimed they had racist comments left on their receipts were proven false? The Muslims who had faked attacks? These bomb scares all reek of the same stink. A certain group looking to garner sympathy and or outrage. So convenient with elections just around the corner.
Most of the bomb experts that have come out have said that these are clearly not real bombs and essentially designed to be discovered. The typical pipe bomb does not have wires coming from both ends. Another point that was made the timer is typically inside the pipe and they have insufficient postage to reach their destinations, and they were all discovered at 4:30 am, there were 6 stamps on the envelope which comes out to about $3. What some have pointed out is that most bombs use steel. USPS ships packages by weight and they start with a base price of around $13. Just between the non cancelled stamps and the lack of stamps for the weight of this package raises all kinds of red flags. It is odd.
There is lot more to find out here before any far reaching conclusions can be reached.
But anifa, well they’re Democrats; that’s for sure.
And Rand Paul was attacked by his neighbor for blowing grass in his yard; a Democrat plot for sure.
And Scalise being shot by a guy who spported an Independent Socialist means its the Democrats.
Two years of Democrats weak tea verbal response to Trumps in-your-face direct calls to violent actions proves the Dems started it. He’s an angel.
You didn’t wait for investigations here. Your rush to judgement in rationalizing the violence is epic. Everything that happens is the Dems fault. It’s all about the Democratic conspiracy aided by the enemy of the people MSM’s fake news to assault your beleagered King. You said the same thing at Charlottesville. You said the dame at Chicago. As the world comes apart, the Don and his sycophants fiddle away.
Remember how we all came together after 9/11?
How about after the Scalise shooting.... https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/after-shooting-baseball-brings-democrats-republicans-together-n773061
And now look at these conservatives above coming together for the cause of America.....
"So convenient with elections just around the corner."
"And besides, if you were really a republican looking to kill some democrats, after all that has happened recently, wouldn't Pelosi be on the top of your list? LOL" LOL plus an incitement to violence. What if someone had died? Party?
"why would you send bombs to people who don't matter anymore, and aren't in govt. or up for re-election? It's not like the baseball game where the guy was trying to take out SITTING representatives."
"So you're saying after two years of violent leftist acts. People on the right suddenly chose the last two weeks before an election to get violent."
"Meanwhile Antifa & BAMN is either being either ignored or justified by every single MSM Liberal with a camera and air time."
"sure seems like something designed for maximum political/media optics, not maximum damage."
"For the last two years Hillay, Schumer, Waters, Warren, and other DNC leaders have been encouraging and stirring up their useful idiots into a frothing rage."
"The left has the market cornered on direct action against the collective."
Compassion. Justice. Liberty. Freedom. America. Is winning so important to you that you have to lose your humanity? Are you willing to sacrifice what you believe in just to further your misaligned cause? These statements are inhuman, every one.
SD the Democrats already said there's no coming together unless they are in power. Talk about the spoiled brat routine....
Reasonable the far Right does not represent the Republican party. Sorry. However more Dems are moving to the far Left. You have Bernie, Cortez, and many in the house and senate that once called for border control and its enforcement calling for allowing illegals in and dismantling ICE. As long as they keep moving further Left we'll never see both sides come together. This isn't the Democratic party of 10-20 years ago. They've gone to the dark side...
So all Dems decided together, as one, that there’s no coming together? Does that even pass the sniff test?
And now you basically say that the Dems include anything to the left of Jeb Bush. We own the socialists, the antifa, blm, everything.....
But call Republicans the party of Nationalism, of racists, of Nazis, well now, that ain’t proper. Even if Trump said it, that’s the lie you can actually call a lie huh....
Well you don’t need a weatherman to know where the mad bombers blow.
Grey Hawk,
Let's not forget that the bombs had a label on them that said "get er done."
https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2018/10/25/06/5390842-6314725-image-m-11_1540445828605.jpg
“Compassion. Justice. Liberty. Freedom. America. Is winning so important to you that you have to lose your humanity? Are you willing to sacrifice what you believe in just to further your misaligned cause? These statements are inhuman, every one.”
You know it’s bad if SD swings for the bleachers with the 100% OMG the sky is falling emotion card.
You do realize SD that 99% of your posts would result in the government forcing others to bend to your will, right? Sacrificing others to get what you want is soooo noble though this you completely ignoring that fact. Sheesh, the bull crap is piling high today!
So for context how about a response to my earlier post where I wrote:
“When migrants get to the US border, are they strolling up to the nearest border entry point and claiming asylum or are they trying to bypass the gate and sneak in?”
Which is it?
If the caravan folks walk up to our door and knock asking for asylum, don’t we have *laws* and a process to deal with that? Yes we do, of course, so if you don’t like those laws then why in the hell do you keep obfuscating your displeasure of existing law with partisan politics instead of screaming to Congress (whose job it is to legislate these things)??? I already know why, as I’m sure a great many others do too. Just waiting for you to catch up...
And if the carsvaners choose to sneak in? Then their status is *illegal* and guess what, we have laws for that too!!
Lol, thanks for the continuing validation of the term REPUBLUCRATS!
"You know it’s bad if SD swings for the bleachers with the 100% OMG the sky is falling emotion card." I can see where a man like you would not get emotional over those statements. Makes sense to me.
"You do realize SD that 99% of your posts would result in the government forcing others to bend to your will, right?" I actually don't have a clue what you are alluding to.
"So for context how about a response to my earlier post where I wrote:
“When migrants get to the US border, are they strolling up to the nearest border entry point and claiming asylum or are they trying to bypass the gate and sneak in?”
Obviously you once again asked a question that can't be answered, at least for another month or so. And I indicated all the push-backs that you conveniently forgot.
But in actuality, whether they are legal or not, once caught they can claim asylum and enter the process. Many illegal crossers literally walk up to border patrol and say "asylum." Perhaps this will help: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/06/19/the-series-of-choices-faced-by-immigrants-fleeing-central-america/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.331feaf66723
The ratio is 2:1, affirmative over defensive (defensive is the illegal crossings)
However, as I said, there is much involved in the ratio. If the border is blocked, what do you expect? You know that will happen this time. If they cross, put their hands in the air, and yell "asylum," how illegal is that: misdemeanor is what it is ---- legally.
Which is it? illegal and immoral or just illegal?
"why in the hell do you keep obfuscating your displeasure of existing law with partisan politics instead of screaming to Congress" What the heck are you talking about with these gross misconceptions and rash assumptions. I listed, without politics, the current and past (my preferred) legal processes. Where's the partisan in that? And what makes you think I am as impotent as you and that I don't press my legislators on each and every issue?
"And if the carsvaners choose to sneak in...." Yes, affirmative and defensive status: and will see if you look above that I referred you to Skippy, our resident expert in both......
"Lol, thanks for the continuing validation of the term REPUBLUCRATS!" The only Republican here is you spewing your partisan hack views without even perusing my inputs which covered your misplaced emotional rantings here. You really need to take a break, get some lithium, before you go full scanners on us again like in the past. How about we discuss some facts rather than this hogwash you swill.
Again my point is violence or calls to violence should not be tolerated by either side - this includes the purposeful misdirection and falsehoods spread by the MSM. How many years of painting Trump and republicans to be Nazis and racists does it take before someone feels justified in becoming a domestic terrorist? Didn’t Madonna advocate blowing up the White House? That was supposedly taken out of context.
MOB action is not denounced by the Democrats or the MSM and is encouraged by their leadership.
Trump has called for nothing less than civility.
This is a critical point - the media has the opportunity to paint a positive picture of things, to promote good relations between people, and to try and mend gaps. Instead, they have become sensationalized and all they do is promote hate and division for ratings.
“We own the socialists, the antifa, blm, everything....”
Then separate yourself from them as a party and denounce their actions - BLM was invited to the White House for God sake
Why, when you start talking to both sides, do you always fall back to only one side as the culprit? Which dog barked first in this dogfight?
Violence is wrong, by anyone.
Inciting violence is wrong, but often protected by the 1A.
Our President should be a thought beacon, not an emotional emergency strobe light signaling violence with every flash. Look at his statements I posted above and tell us how the Democrats perpetrated:
"the purposeful misdirection and falsehoods spread by the MSM." source please because I've got FOX and the Russian Troll farms to see what you've been reading..... As JR, he's a troll farm subscriber.... :>)
"How many years of painting Trump and republicans to be Nazis and racists does it take before someone feels justified in becoming a domestic terrorist?" Answer should be forever..... And for the record, I have never said this. I said most Nazis, or the vast majority as Darrin likes to say, and racists are Republicans. Not most Republicans are Nazis and racists.
"Didn’t Madonna advocate blowing up the White House? That was supposedly taken out of context." And this makes it OK? What are you even trying to say with this.... That Madonna says stupid things? That Madonna speaks for all Democrats?
"MOB action is not denounced by the Democrats or the MSM and is encouraged by their leadership." That's not true, you conflate and inflate it. Of course, leading Democrats have denounced mob actions from anyone. And most of those statements you cling to are not exactly calling for violence. Not being civil is not being violent. Getting in their face is an American tradition last time I checked.
"Trump has called for nothing less than civility." Sorry, I threw up in my mouth a little on this one. I am sorry --- you are a big liar on this one.
"This is a critical point - the media has the opportunity to paint a positive picture of things, to promote good relations between people, and to try and mend gaps. Instead, they have become sensationalized and all they do is promote hate and division for ratings." That's what happens when you cover Trump authentically, realistically, and factually. And I have to say, in my study of journalism, this never came up as a tenant for the profession.
It starts where the buck stops. Get your house in order. Curb your dog.
"Trump has called for nothing less than civility." This has to be a joke right?
And what's wrong with BLM being invited to the white house? An organization against violence and systematic racism towards black people. How terrible.
"BLM was invited to the White House for God sake"
Trump's first exodus from the US: to embarrass himself with the Saudi's
Trump respects, in words, Un, Erdoğan, and Putin.
Trump's Putin news conference --- a God's sake for sure.
At least BLM is American.
Because BLM is a joke.... two cops were shot and killed recently by black men and they don't condemn those acts, but if a cop shoots a black man who is hostile suddenly it's all about racism even if the cop who pulled the trigger is black.
The squeaky wheel always gets the oil. Rarely is the true problem fixed by adding oil, but hey if the noise goes away...
Also funny how there’s always another squeak to be pointed out by politicians or others in positions of power.
Wash, rinse, repeat Republicrats lol
So, SD, you think comments calling for Barron Trump (a child) to be beheaded and sodomized - by Peter Fonda are showing compassion?
Comments like the ones saying that they want to destroy Kavanaugh by a writer for a late night show and a head at Google? Those are acceptable?
Hmmm....some double standard. I would say no comparison to the statements made by the people whom you quoted from HL. Not even close!
US soldiers deaths increased in 2017, for the first time in 6 years under the Presidency of Donald J. Trump.
48 total deaths were claimed, up 20% from 2016 and the first time the death toll has risen in the last 6 years.
We doubled our troops in Somalia, up to 500 now and had our first death since "Black Hawk Down."
For some reason, we are even losing people in Niger.
We are back up to 14,000 troops in Afghanistan, a multi-thousand man increase over previous year.
We added approx. 2,000 men in the Middle East bringing our total to around 9,000.
I am sorry, did Trump commend each of these 48 lives given to support his policies that are virtually "blacked out" from the US press and public?
For 2018, once again Trump is looking to set records in military deaths in his now secret wars in Afghanistan, Somalia, Syria, Yemini, and Iraq, all with boots on the ground. This doesn't count the drone strikes in another half dozen places.
And you think Dems not calling out BLM is a tragedy...… Our sons and daughters dying silently is the tragedy.
https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/4067711/BIE-Redacted.pdf
I dunno - maybe because they’re assessed as a domestic terror organization by the FBI along with other organizations.
Trumps call for civility
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/10/24/suspicious-devices-what-donald-trumps-message-maga-rally/1754177002/
Of course not Suze. Frankly, surprised you even had to ask.
Don't think other Democrats support that kind of stuff either.
The Dems tried to bury a guy off half a story from a woman. Nothing they do would surprise me at this point.
It's insane and delusional to blame this on the president. The blame needs to be on those who perpetrated the attacks, Trump called for unity , he called for civility. He did the right thing here. Get a grip.
"Inciting violence is wrong, but often protected by the 1A." so when the left does it - constitutional right - but "Our President should be a thought beacon" so lets talk about how this started with the last thought leader. This started with Obama dividing the country along racial lines:
1. furthering the idea of “privilege,” and purporting that white males consistently have an advantage and oppress protected classes and minorities.
2. accusing the police and justice system at large of racism;
https://www.dailywire.com/news/7305/what-obama-said-about-cops-hours-dallas-massacre-james-barrett
3. furthering the idea that a "wage gap" exists blaming again white male patriarchy.
4. and my personal fave - portraying Islamic radicalism as a legitimate response to perceived discrimination.
https://www.dailywire.com/news/1245/cnn-panel-agrees-gops-islamophobia-causes-islamic-robert-kraychik
there are 2 things at play here:
1. the Left has continued this rallying cry furthering the idea that pervasive oppression exists. This has caused the "useful idiots" to become more militant, hostile. It is abundantly clear that at this point in time the left is only willing to make demands and not willing to engage in meaningful dialogue due to their sense of entitlement and victim-hood.
2 This has caused the alleged perpetrators of the perceived discrimination (see basket of deplorables) to feel wrongly accused for problems that are not their fault. Shockingly enough the right is thus less willing to engage meaningful dialogue with people who not only perpetually label and falsely accuse them of wrongdoing but threaten their safety as well.
https://www.breitbart.com/the-media/2018/07/05/rap-sheet-acts-of-media-approved-violence-and-harassment-against-trump-supporters/
meanwhile - funnily enough African Americans are doing better under Trump in every metric
labor force participation
the percentage of people below the poverty line
real median income
number of people on food stamps
percentage of home owners
business ownership (up 400%)
https://www.nationalreview.com/2016/03/black-americans-barack-obama-going-backwards-under-president-obama/
vs
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-04/black-and-hispanic-unemployment-in-america-reach-record-lows
Joe Biden said he wanted to take the President behind the shed and beat his ass. Robert De Niro said he wanted to punch the President in the face. Maxine Waters has stated on several occasions that she was going to take the President out. Rosie O’Donnel has threatened violence against the President many times. Kathy Griffin took a picture holding the severed head of the President. Jimmy Kimmel said he wanted to pound the President. Madonna said she wanted to blow up the White House. Mickey Rourke said he would love 30 seconds in a room with the little bitch (President Trump). He also said how he would love to give the President a Louisville Slugger. Larry Wilmore said he didn’t want to give the President any more oxygen. And asked for someone to give him the pillow used on Justice Scalia and he will do it himself. Jonny Depp asked when was the last time an actor assassinated a President. Then went on to say it needed to happen again. George Lopez, Marilyn Manson, Moby, and snoop Dogg have all threatened violence against the President. Several politicians have threated violence against the President as well. This list could go on for several pages, but you get the picture.
Yes Suze, there are Democrats that support bad things just like there are Republicans who are White Nationalists, Racists, and worse. It happens. Yet, your King is a self-avowed Nationalist who frequently calls for violence against his opposition, consistently soft peddles the world's most brutal leaders, calls the press the "enemy of the people, and more. He is the world's leader, he has the world's bully pulpit, and his worse incite violence, demean others, and are divisive by definition, purposely and with gusto. No mistakes.
I think the bad language scale severally tips in your direction.
Skip, if you can't see how the President is the world's supreme leader and how his words and actions matter more than Maxine's, Chuck's or Nancy's, then I can't help you to see the truth.
Nice sourcing:
Daily Wire --- extreme right wing bias
Factual Reporting: MIXED
World Press Freedom Rank: 45/180.
Breitbart.com ---even more extreme right wing bias
Bias: Extreme Right, Propaganda, Conspiracy, Failed Fact Checks
National Review --- right wing bias
Factual Reporting: MIXED
World Press Freedom Rank: USA 45/180
Bloomberg News --- left of center bias (not bad)
Factual Reporting: HIGH
World Press Freedom Rank: USA 45/180
Except for Bloomberg, basically purveyors of right-wing fake news. Not good, as usual.
Yes Greywolf — freedom of speech is a wonderful thing. Yet, not one of these people are leaders of the free world. Not one has the bully pulpit, constant news coverage of every utterance, and the world-wide reach. And not one of these people has issued the constant venomous violent spew that you now rationalize by saying the other side uses violent rhetoric.
If you stop it, we will too. If you don’t, we will vote tou out.
Breaking news: Mueller closes in on Stone connection to stolen emails in conspiracy with the Russians before public release. Getting closer.
SD Everything in those sources above refers to outside sources - you can’t blatently ignore facts because you don’t like who reported it - one of them references the Clinton news network.
I agree with you about the Presidents words having gravity - we agree then that when Obama was the leader of the free world and preaching division and Police / Judicial corruption that started this ball rolling.
This is why there will never be a middle ground - you remain in your echo chamber of the MSM and Drumpf haters
Division, police/judicial corruption. No sources and not a clue what you’re whining about it being Obamas fault again crap.
And no, I’m not reading fake news low value sources to cherry pick nuggets from manure. Sorry.
“If you stop it, we will too. If you don’t, we will vote tou out. ”
Children speak and act like that. If that’s the mindset of any politician they should be voted out. Immediately.
But since we are collectively glued to msm news sources, and those sources would never accept some boring adult in a position of leadership, it means we will likely always have this stupid duopoly of idiots running the show.
Again, not a clue what you are saying. Children, MSM, duopoly, No drama Obama was boring, we got Trumpians, alt righters, Republicans, tea partiers, independents, democrats, democratic socialists, greeners and more. Its a virtual cacophony if only you take the time to listen. Or you can hear two sides only. Your choice.
So the response from the member of the progressive enlightened part is “la la can’t hear you “
"So the response from the member of the progressive enlightened part is “la la can’t hear you “
Yes how very... progressive LOL
Twelve bombs sent to the left and counting....
"Joe Biden said he wanted to take the President behind the shed and beat his ass" they sent him two bombs
" Robert De Niro said he wanted to punch the President in the face" he got a bomb
"Maxine Waters has stated on several occasions that she was going to take the President out.: she got two
"Several politicians have threated violence against the President as well. This list could go on for several pages, but you get the picture." Yeah, it's OK to bomb if you're feelin's are hurt... Yeah, we get the picture, the bombings are all right, the kids are all right, enemy of the people ho!!!!
"the Left has continued this rallying cry furthering the idea that pervasive oppression exists. This has caused the "useful idiots" to become more militant, hostile. It is abundantly clear that at this point in time the left is only willing to make demands and not willing to engage in meaningful dialogue due to their sense of entitlement and victim-hood." Get your hands off me you damned dirty ape theory of why its OK to bomb.....
"purporting that white males consistently have an advantage and oppress protected classes and minorities." Skippy, you have entered the racist zone.....purporting? Science denial again? No wonder you support the bombers....
"The Dems tried to bury a guy off half a story from a woman. Nothing they do would surprise me at this point." Conspiracy control, we have a theory....Right after funding the caravan, the mob got busy building bad bombs..... Mets nailed it and he has no sources to prove it so it must be true....
" Trump called for unity , he called for civility. He did the right thing here. Get a grip."
Or did he...
“Funny how lowly rated CNN, and others, can criticize me at will, even blaming me for the current spate of Bombs and ridiculously comparing this to September 11th and the Oklahoma City bombing,” Ah, unity....no blame game here.
I mean, Trump, like you, wants to find the culprit: "“The media also has a responsibility to set a civil tone and to stop the endless hostility and constant negative — and oftentimes, false — attacks and stories." No blaming the victim like they did Ford...…
"Once again the press gets gamed, giving saturation coverage and agonized commentary to a minor event. It's not major news that a country of 325m has a few malicious jerks who (correctly) anticipate 15 minutes of notoriety with a vindictive stunt." Ah, but an Antifa pushing contest is a major mob of insurrection. I get it....the target determines the crime....
Kids, it's either all right or not right. There is no middle ground, no innocent until proven guilty, there's only 12 bombs delivered to the left and the right-guy at the top giving lip service following years of calls to arms against his perceived enemies. The guilty had a list and we all knew who's on it and where it came from. He called them enemy of the people, approves body slamming them, shows tapes of him beating the stuffing out of one while he laughs and laughs, offers to pay legal charges for violence, asks people to punch protestors, and so on and so on. There are pages more, but you get the idea...…
Antifa is nothing compared to the snowflake bomber....
SD, I believe you confused me with someone else. Trump is not my king. He is, however, our president and I would be a fool to want him to fail.
The things SD comes up with to attempt to pit people against Trump are laughable.
+100 Suze
SD would like for nothing more then this country to fall on its face....and even if it had nothing to do with Trump, SD would be blaming him.
“no innocent until proven guilty”
BS to the extreme.
If we don’t have innocent until proven guilty in this country then we are no more than savages pretending to be civilized.
Which side do you want to be on? Believing everything you are told by those in power or trusting in the process of discovery and in the truth that Justice is blind?
Trump called for unity , he called for civility. He gave props, recognition and thanks to law enforcement. He denounced the actions of this nut job. He clearly stated these are unacceptable. He did the right thing here. Get a grip
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/menendez-in-trouble-new-jersey-senate-race-moved-to-toss-up-by-cook-political-report
Hate to break it to Bobby but there was enough evidence to take him to trial over his escapades at night. Yet he's someone who bitched that the FBI didn't investigate enough of the half story Ford had against Kavanaugh... LOL... I'm voting Hugin all the way. Drain the swamp...
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-hails-quick-arrest-pipe-bomb-suspect-vows-swift-certain-n924871
Lol so we support this moron now - did you guys miss med pass this morning?
https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/nbc-news-raises-eyebrows-by-sitting-on-info-that-contradicted-michael-avenatti-client
So this confirms even more so what a scumbag Avenatti is. I heard he's SD's hero. LMAO...
“no innocent until proven guilty”
BS to the extreme.
"If we don’t have innocent until proven guilty in this country then we are no more than savages pretending to be civilized. "
Jit,
This train has already left the station. Instant social media will be the final nail in the coffin. The whole country is like a Jerry Springer show, except now instead of watching- Anyone gets to participate using a cell phone.
3 hits to the starboard side and taking on water now....
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/migrant-caravan-members-reject-offer-stay-mexico-n925171
So much for the “asylum” claims - If they're applying for asylum they'd have stopped when they entered Mexico and applied there. These people are economic migrants -Economic opportunity is not a valid claim for asylum.
SD if you don't believe in innocent until proven guilty then I'd love to see your reaction if someone accused you of doing something that you didn't do and by your logic you're just automatically guilty and go to prison. This isn't North Korea or some other 3rd world country. If that is how we do things going forward then we are not the greatest country in the world. Heck why don't we get rid of police and have public lynch mobs while we're at it...
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/mike-pence-claims-hes-learned-migrant-caravan-funded-by-outside-groups
Like Pence said, you need 60 votes in the Senate. So those saying "Oh the Republicans are in control, it's their fault".... Yeah um no.... get educated. Nothing is getting done because some Democrats need to be on board. All they are doing is obstructing. So for us in NJ, get Menendez out of the Senate. Vote Hugin. We need to have the Republicans majority to be at 60 at least. As long as Crying Chuck is in charge no Democrat will vote with Republicans on immigration.
Is the "caravan" a big problem? Why add more troops when they cannot use their weapons? Are we going to shoot possible innocents? How do we stop massive numbers of people from simply walking or rushing over our border?
it is my belief that they need the combat engineers and civil affairs folks to provide the facilities and organize the thousands of asylum claims. they will need a ton of infrastructure support to include food, clean water, medical care as well as care / custody (detention) folks to manage something of this scale. this is in addition to establishing a protective perimeter.
The military is equipped to handle this mission whereas civilian agencies are not.
https://apnews.com/e7ffd2d5764244cdb1d1474bd895a863
the ROE seems to be logistics support.
Good article Skip; actual journalism ;-)
If you believe in our asylum treaty, they are coming.
If that’s the case, I would think the issue is logistics; effective and efficient processing.
For example, if I were king..., I would set up ‘asylum’ triage stations, do the expedited deportation investigation, id the living crap out of these folks and let the asylum passers get on a bus and tell the others - go home, do it right, don’t cross - you have been id’d. Save some money, weed out the ez stuff and move on. Once in US, after initial vetting and court appearance, release with bracelet and sabe the housing costs. Mkst show up for second court appearance.
Implement e-verify across 50 states and will be pretty impossible for illegls to work just ending most if the immigration crisis right there.
Decide whether long-time illegal citizens (assimilated, working, playing well) deserve a path since who wants their jobs and expensive to bus em out.
Re-evaluate asylum treaty with other nations. Think the immigration waves are getting larger and the landing beaches are getting smaller as the societal distance between developed and 3rd world becomes greater but the physical distance becomes smaller.
Really can’t understand why we can’t compromise and solve this one. At least up to the treaty modification remedy.
Asylum in this situation is a poor quality bandaid. Do we absorb all of the good citizens of these countries, leaving only criminals to populate these areas? Someone needs to stand and fight, with the help of neighboring countries. People need a reason to stay where they are, reasons similar to why they come here.
The only reason the left cares about immigration is because it increasing share of its votes from immigrants and people of color—the point is to change the demographics of the US. US immigration law strongly favored Europeans - not so much any more.
the costs imposed by large-scale low-wage immigration of groups of people that have no intent towards assimilation is detrimental to America.
https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/illegal-immigration-democrats-open-borders/
The only reason the right cares about tax cuts is so that white nationalists have more money to buy pickup trucks to drag black people from.
See how ridiculous that sounds? Your comment sounds just as ignorant, skippy.
It is a theory Skippy. It is a valid point, but to say that it is the only reason is a little extreme. My view of the left is that they are dreamers and do not consider the costs involved in such dreaming; someone has to pay, money doesn't grow on trees and the streets are not paved with Gold in the USA...
"The only reason the right cares about tax cuts is so that white nationalists have more money to buy pickup trucks to drag black people from.
See how ridiculous that sounds? Your comment sounds just as ignorant, skippy."
Actually, it's your overreaching analogy that sounds ridiculous and ignorant.
I find it interesting that the same people who think we should just "let everyone in" "because the Statue of Liberty says" and because "Americans won't take those low-paying jobs" are likely the same people who want a national minimum wage of $15/hour.
So, which is it? Can't have your cake an eat it too.
Really? Because I thought Skippy was talking about the whitening of North Carolina...
I think immigration is your Nationalist issue Skip; I think Dems more interested in Health Care. Saying the Dems favor Open Borders is another Trumpian lie you swallow. It is just not true. Most Trumpians can not even define what Open Borders mean.
Wow that got some reactions
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/07/the-democrats-immigration-mistake/528678/
immigrants are increasingly coming from Hispanic countries, are more often people of color and vote Democrat once they gain citizenship - hence the push for a path / DACA etc. they also have children here who are citizens who tend to vote democrat.
https://thepoliticalinsider.com/whoops-congressman-accidentally-reveals-democrats-really-want-amnesty/
Nothing in that statement or the ones above is anything other than statistics and an opinion on political strategy. We haven’t dragged anyone behind a truck in months here. Carry on
Democrats used to be fervently against illegal immigration as it undercut US union labor
“Americans… are rightly disturbed by the large numbers of illegal aliens entering our country. The jobs they hold might otherwise be held by citizens or legal immigrants. The public service they use impose burdens on our taxpayers.” - Bill Clinton 1995 State of the Union address:
"One study by a Harvard economist examined the effect of the mass migration of Cuban refugees to the US in 1980 and found that less-educated American workers in Miami saw their wages fall by 10 to 30% after the refugees arrived."
ttps://sites.hks.harvard.edu/fs/gborjas/publications/working%20papers/Mariel2015.pdf"
why the switch?
" 22 million people now reside in the United States illegally. Older studies have estimated the number to be around 11 million."
ttps://insights.som.yale.edu/insights/yale-study-finds-twice-as-many-undocumented-immigrants-as-previous-estimates
Democrats plan to expand rights for all illegal immigrants living in the United States
https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/republican-and-democratic-party-platforms-reflect-parallel-universes-immigration-policy
illegal aliens are overwhelmingly democrats
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/07/22/are-unauthorized-immigrants-overwhelmingly-democrats/
the largest landslide election in US history was decided by 17M votes.
https://www.270towin.com/1972_Election/
still sound ridiculous and ignorant.?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUU2iWxrH2M&feature=youtu.be
Prager U video talking about this - had to remove H from some of the links so they would post
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/san-francisco-spends-about-6326-for-each-non-citizen-voter-to-sign-up-for-local-election-report-says
This is just the beginning. They have illegals voting in local elections. This is the Democrat playbook going forward. They want these people to pour in to keep their power. If you don't think that is the case then you're living in a fantasy world...
Wildly misleading headline, pretty standard for Fox News though. They're letting people with children in the school system vote on matters related to the school system. Also, whether or not to allow this was voted on last election. And the residents voted to allow it.
OMG --- 49 of them and for school board only..... the horror of it all. Definingly, as goes the San Francisco California school board, so goes the nation of Democrats. It's Mets' reality of the alt right.....
Look, you guys got the white guy vote, your male vote, the old guy vote, the rich guy vote, the rural vote, the undereducated vote, and all of that Russian media support telling you what to think. We only got the female vote, the millennials, the black vote, the Asian vote, the Hispanic vote, the poor vote, and the well-educated vote with no Russians to help us, just Soros and you have both Koch Bro's.
I mean your ongoing voter suppression efforts, without the Democratic minority vote, who would you suppress. The whole effort would be useless.... https://www.npr.org/2018/10/23/659784277/republican-voter-suppression-efforts-are-targeting-minorities-journalist-says Who's gonna stop the little old ladies from getting off the bus to early vote in Georgia? https://www.vox.com/identities/2018/10/17/17990110/georgia-senior-citizens-bus-removal-black-voters-matter-suppression
Perhaps a wiser person might look at the demographics above and consider, just consider, that the issue ISN"T the Hispanics, the issue is you. You are Nationalists. Your plans, programs, and visions are of Nationalism. And White Nationalists tend to support you too because of what you say and do. Of course, non-whites and newcomers will not like your Nationalist policies. These policies tend to hit close to home for these citizens.
"One study by a Harvard economist examined the effect of the mass migration of Cuban refugees to the US in 1980 and found that less-educated American workers in Miami saw their wages fall by 10 to 30% after the refugees arrived." Makes you wonder how they define minimum wage?
Skippy, if the Hispanic vote scares you this much, after you solve it, do you continue your push to go after all those other Demographics? I mean they hate Nationalism too.
And if the Hispanic vote is so, so fearful --- what happened in Texas? Do you really feel California would change without the Hispanic vote? Or NJ? Or NY? Amazingly, you might not even witness a difference. Could happen...
And thanks for bringing up the 72 Nixon election. Very poignant to today's times :>) Foreshadowing? You say: "the largest landslide election in US history was decided by 17M votes. still sound ridiculous and ignorant.?" Why yes, it does. But only because it is.
Did you account for population growth? In 72, 17M was 8% of the population; today it's 5%. 11M would be 3%, only 22M only reaches 7%. But that's counting each Hispanic vote, as if they have 100% turnout, as not going Nationalist. 100% turn out not gonna happen, Democrats are afraid that even legal citizens will be too scared of ICE to even bother to vote. Also, even your stats show a sizeable number of Hispanics not voting Democratic; it's not a zero-sum game as you assume. At least according to your sources. So your math is fractured and your assumptions not pure. Sorry.
"Democrats plan to expand rights for all illegal immigrants living in the United States. " Your source states: "the platform endorses a path to citizenship for law-abiding unauthorized immigrants." I don't see a vote in that. What is your plan for law-abiding illegals who have assimilated?
Some of your sources:
The 22M study is new, time will tell.
Migration Policy - leans left, highly factual. good.
PEW -- no bias, highly factual
Prager U --- nice try, Tucker Carlson is a radical right sort of guy....
So, good try, but assumption set is fractured and, most important, does not encompass changes due to time which renders your conclusion --- busted.....sorry.
vox has a left bias
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/vox/
"These media sources are moderately to strongly biased toward liberal causes through story selection and/or political affiliation. They may utilize strong loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using appeal to emotion or stereotypes), publish misleading reports and omit reporting of information that may damage liberal causes. Some sources in this category may be untrustworthy"
it's Tucker appearing on Prager which has a right center bias
"These media sources are slightly to moderately conservative in bias. They often publish factual information that utilizes loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using appeal to emotion or stereotypes) to favor conservative causes. These sources are generally trustworthy for information, but may require further investigation."
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/salem-radio-network-news-srn-news/
"Skippy, if the Hispanic vote scares you this much, after you solve it, do you continue your push to go after all those other Demographics? I mean they hate Nationalism too." - your conflating the Hispanic vote with the immigrant vote there Mr. spin - and that's not what I said.
the Hispanic vote is not going 50/50
"Latinos are not monolithic. Slightly less than a quarter of Latinos (23%) identify as Republican or describe themselves as leaning Republican. "
http://www.pewhispanic.org/2018/10/25/more-latinos-have-serious-concerns-about-their-place-in-america-under-trump/
"Half of Hispanic adults (49%) are foreign born, and as a group they have stronger concern than those born in the U.S. Immigrants are more likely than U.S.-born Hispanics to say they have serious concerns about their place in U.S. society (57% vs. 42%), and they worry a lot or some about deportation (66% vs. 43%). Foreign-born Hispanics are also more pronounced in their criticism of the Trump administration: 71% say White House policies have been harmful to Hispanics as a group, compared with 63% of U.S.-born Hispanics who say the same."
so tell me more about them facts..
lets look at what NPR is calling voter suppression - voter ID
"Since the 2010 elections, 24 states have implemented new restrictions on voting. Alabama now requires a photo ID to cast a ballot. Other states such as Ohio and Georgia have enacted "use it or lose it" laws, which strike voters from registration rolls if they have not participated in an election within a prescribed period of time."
people with registration issues had to vote in person
"What was happening, as people were submitting voter registration applications, if their names on the voter registration forms didn't exactly match other state databases, these voters were sent a letter telling them that their applications were pending and they needed to provide more information to election officials.
This was very confusing to people, because even though these pending voters could show up and vote at the polls with the correct ID — they couldn't vote by mail but they could vote at the polls — if you got a letter in the mail that said there was a problem with your registration, you probably would think that you weren't eligible to vote"
so what you are complaining about here is Georgia in an attempt to maintain the integrity of the election process - asked people with suspect registrations to appear in person at the polling place with ID. oh the horror.
Nationalism is not Racism - it is long over due that we focus on the sovereignty of our nation and transcends ethnic, cultural, and religious boundaries - it is the opposite of globalism. There is nothing wrong with loving America and wanting us to prosper. you may want to try it.
meanwhile - this was found to be massive voter fraud in Georgia. A review by the Secretary of State (and even an independent investigator) of a complaint for “pending” voters (filed by Democrat Stacey Abrams.)
The GA Secretary of State has completed his review, including hiring an independent reviewer, and his findings are as follows:
The ‘Pending’ list (as of 10/17/18) was 75,105
9,224 are ‘pending’ because the person is 17.5
2,935 used a fake address
3,393 are ‘pending’ because citizenship could not be verified
5,842 are ‘pending’ because they match another active voter file
After you remove underage, fake addresses, duplicates, and non-citizens, you have roughly 46,000 ‘pending’ on the list, not 53,000.
75% are on the list because they failed Social Security Number verification. Stacey Abrams' group New Georgia Project is responsible for 23% of those, or 11,024 voters.
Those 11,024 voters had their registration filed in 2014 by the New Georgia Project. None of those 11,024 voters have ever attempted to vote or contact a local board of elections to provide the correct social security number. (thanks Obama - he did that)
In other words, 75% of the people provided the wrong last four digits of their purported social security numbers and 23% were actually filed not by the voter, but by a group associated with Stacey Abrams."
meanwhile - you can vote with your bus pass or school ID AND they issue free voter ID's
http://sos.ga.gov/index.php/general/information_for_pending_voters
I highly doubt you are affected by voter ID laws so it probably seems so easy and simple to you. The issue here is that the laws were created as a "solution" to a basically non-existent problem, with the outcome being that it can be extremely prohibitive for certain groups of people to vote. So basically, the laws have little to no benefit, it only prevents eligible people from voting.
They offer free voter IDs for valid citizens. That way, no one can say it discriminates against the poor.
A lot of other countries have voter ID - including Mexico and I haven't heard a peep out of Amnesty International about how horrible that is.
67% of viters polled want them
http://m.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/september_2018/voters_want_ids_at_the_polls_don_t_see_them_as_discriminatory
In re the Nixon election validity - thst was the LARGEST margin - meaning others were closer - it’s absolutely relevant.
What’s racist is saying that impoverished people of color and lawful immigrants don’t have the cognitive ability to get a free ID. Sounds to me like you want to pitty then not uplift them.
It has nothing to do with cognitive ability, who is saying that? To obtain the ID's there are costs associated with obtaining the underlying documentation required such as birth certificates. If they don't already have a license it means they can't drive, which means finding transportation to the offices where they can get the ID. In some rural areas, low income neighborhoods may be located more than 150 miles from the nearest office.
The ID is free and you need the above documentation to get any other form of ID, public assistance and they accept bus passes and school ID. They would have to take the same bus to the polls - in a post 9/11 world there’s nothing you can do without valid ID especially when they can get the for free. Sorry it’s not a valid barrier to entry
It is literally a barrier to entry. Obtaining the ID is the barrier.
"They would have to take the same bus to the polls" Umm you know they aren't necessarily the same place. Can anyone around here can go to the Hackettstown High School to obtain a government issued ID?
Regardless, the overarching theme is that there is no benefit to the policy. Despite what Trump says, voter fraud is not rampant. It is to prevent minority citizen groups from voting.
No benefit to this policy?
"Those 11,024 voters had their registration filed in 2014 by the New Georgia Project. None of those 11,024 voters have ever attempted to vote or contact a local board of elections to provide the correct social security number".
If true, are you okay with having a possible 11,000 people vote that did not provide the proper credentials to register to vote? Seems odd that 11,000 would not know their social security number.
I think election integrity and eliminating the potential for accusations of meddling would certainly be a benefit
“It is to prevent minority citizen groups from voting.”
Just curious if that should have included “legal” or “illegal” in there somewhere. It’s hard to tell because so many discussions happen where the context isn’t clear.
More on Stacy Abrams.
https://www.ajc.com/news/state--regional-govt--politics/voter-drive-raised-millions-but-abrams-won-say-from-whom/8eYeUD80WFSaCYO3Y3ANdL/
How can it be targeted to a specific group if the rules are for the entire state ?
You can’t develop legislation and governance based on the potential for outlier population - ergo some people live 150 miles from where they need to get docs and don’t drive. In addition - birth certs are available for low or reduced costs via mail - I would bet they can even get them for free or close to free since legal status is a requirement to apply for and receive public assistance - you absolutely for sure can use a public assistance ID to vote since it is a government issued ID card.
Sorry I don’t see where you are coming from
Just curious if Reasonable supports ID requirements for another particular Constitutional right or if it’s only an “infringement” to voting...
When a law has almost affect on a certain group of people, and has a disproportionately large negative effect on a certain group of people, then the only purpose was that negative affect. Just because you're applying the rules to everyone doesn't mean certain groups aren't specifically targeted.
I just don't understand why people who always complain about overreaching government would want restrictive laws on a fundamental aspect of democracy.
Mark I'm sure you're talking about guns, since that seems to be a few people's obsession on here. When a legal citizen who is registered to vote casts a ballot and kills 59 people, I'll agree with getting more strict. Elections just don't happen as often as legal gun owners killing a bunch of people.
Regardless of what you do with an ID it’s either prohibitive to acquire or it’s not.
So you support disproportionately infringing on low income people to exercise their right to bear arms and defend themselves, based on absolutely nothing regarding their propensity (or history) of committing crimes but merely on their ability, or lack thereof, to acquire a photo ID?
“When a law has almost affect on a certain group of people, and has a disproportionately large negative effect on a certain group of people, then the only purpose was that negative affect.”
Yes and no I’d think.
The estimate I saw was about 3.5% of the US population is here illgally. 3.5% is a decent voting block in an election and it’s not out of the realm of possibility that one of the major party’s would want to covet that group. I also read that the majority of that group, about 75%, leans Democrat.
Is it a just a coincidence that the D’s would want to make it easy for that group to cast a ballot?
Need to take a day off from work and go to Walgreens to see if my Smallpox and Leperacy inoculations are in stock and covered under my insurance policy.
I mean, really?
If you believe that, I’ve got a bridge to sell you.
And that should be an easy sale.
You went for tRUMP UNIVERSITY hook, line and sinker.
Damn.
Smallpox shot not covered.
They gave me some stupid excuse .
They said The World Health Organization declared it an eradicated disease over 30 years ago.
Like that’s a legitimate reason?
And the lies continue unabated.
VOTE
VOTE
VOTE
VOTE
https://www.axios.com/trump-birthright-citizenship-executive-order-0cf4285a-16c6-48f2-a933-bd71fd72ea82.html
Trump targeting birthright citizenship with executive order
I have no problem with birthright citizenship if someone (even a non-citizen) is here legally. Boating across a river to avoid a legal border crossing and having a baby on the other side shouldn't count.
(You can't say they aren't going to try... this picture is from less than a week ago from this latest caravan illegally crossing into Mexico. You think they won't find/build a raft by the Rio Grande?)
There is no invasion. It is a Nationalist ploy to get Trump's base to the polls.
There is no invasion. If we let all of these people in to live in NJ, it would be like adding two High Schools. Would we even notice two additional High Schools in all of NJ? And we are nowhere close to letting everyone in. There is no invasion, it’s a political wedge to whip you up emotionally in order to get you to vote.
There is no invasion of disease epidemic. They don’t have smallpox, no one does. FOX lies, your President lies. They don’t have leprosy, that’s not that contagious anyways, you have to exchange fluids… There is no epidemic, that’s a political wedge to get you to vote.
There is no invasion. Caravans have been coming for over 15 years. 15 years, we have handled them, and no invasion has happened, massive numbers of terrorists are not there, massive numbers of ms13 are not there, and for 15 years we have handled the caravans as if there was no invasion.
We are NOW placing, and financing, over 5,000 American troops on the border to have a one soldier for every man, woman, and child that will be here close to a month AFTER the election. That’s a deployment of like 1/3rd of the soldiers we have in Afghanistan where I am sure they could use a few more to help in an actual war…..with people with guns……instead of women and children.....without guns.
Now that Trump has had to move off his divisional " mob versus jobs hate speech," he realizes the 10% tax break for the middle class won't happen in time, he is clinging to his immigrant hate speech as the galvanizing dog whistle to his base. Caravans have been coming for 15 years, but this one, once claimed by Trump and Co. to be sponsored by the Dems, then he claimed there were terrorists from the Middle East in the group, then he went to the MS13, murderers, and rapists schtick, a dog whistle always guaranteed to elicit tearful anecdotes, but zero confirming statistics. He is a liar, but you know that, accept it, and like to pick out the nuggets of what you determine to be truth, for you, from his speech compost pile.
No President has ever lied at this magnitude, and no electorate has ever allowed such a grandiose level of lying to exist unchecked.
OK, we know we need to fix immigration, fix illegals amongst us, and perhaps even re-engineer how the world treats refugees. But this is a political stunt, a play meant to divide us, inflame us, and get you to the voting booth. A couple of High Schools of people is not an invasion, they are not terrorists, not murdering rapists, they are not an epidemic and, most important, they all don’t get a pass to get in IF we honor our commitment to the Asylum Treaty that we signed. We have the laws, the process, to do this humanely, efficiently and effectively. Or we can go the Trump route, make people miserable and worse, get us all fighting each other, and, the real reason -- to excite you to the point you get off your keister and vote.
Meanwhile, while voter ID may be a good idea, although the stats seem to say meaningless, when the new rules collide with a pending election, and many people start falling into the cracks, it appears those people overwhelmingly don’t vote for Trump, and that smacks of suppression. IF WE really cared about voting, that wouldn’t happen. Native Americans in ND don’t have fixed addresses on the reservation. So suppressing them because of this just does not seem fair. In GA, the “pending list” is 80% minority voters. That seems like suppression. If it’s not suppression, then why isn’t GA pushing to close the list and allow prospective voters to be able to vote? Why the slow roll?
Why did GA stop the bus load of elders from voting? They didn’t even know who they were voting for. Why the slow roll? Why does it seem that GA is pressing to get less voters, not more?
Why did Kansas City close all it’s polling places except ONE new one that’s located outside the city? Doesn’t that seem like suppression?
I think we want everyone to vote, that’s the American way. I don’t mind voter id, voter registration, but shouldn’t our laws be implemented with programs designed to get people to vote rather than preclude them from their Constitutional right? 15th amendment, 1870….. And if the implementation of the law seems to preclude large blocks from voting, isn’t that suppression?
Trump states that only the US has a "birthright" citizenship right.
He lies.
Over 30 nations have it.
Just saying.
He lies.
I suppose "lie" is not exactly accurate. He doesn't know it to be untrue. He doesn't know the facts, often, and doesn't care. He makes things up as he goes along and if something turns out to be false, he'll just rail against the media for saying so and therefore being against him, as he sees it.
SD you lie to yourself every day when you think your side isn't inciting violence or harassment...
https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/actor-james-cromwell-warns-of-blood-in-the-streets-if-democrats-dont-win-election
Another special Hollywood nutcase...
It’s a bald face lie. Its not a misspeak, its not an exaggeration, its not an ommission, its not even a tiny white lie, its a bald face lie.
He calls Warren a liar; she has DNA evidence. Where is his bar? Where is yours? (Rhetorical; I know the right has dropped the bar, their moral imperative has been back-burnered to beat Hillary..... still.... ongoing.... now....way of life. “Get your hands off me, you darned dirty apes.” I am Spartacus.
OMG SD.... She had less than 1% of Native American DNA. There tons of people with that... Just stop already...
"No President has ever lied at this magnitude, and no electorate has ever allowed such a grandiose level of lying to exist unchecked. "
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
You had me there for a second, like you were serious or something.
Trump lies, Warren did not.
Where did I say the left isn’t getting violent and that some has said wrong things and others has said things wrongly? Or are you wishful?
I did say that you have no place using this one-sided vitriolic attack to divide now that you own the largest assassination attempt in US history and, plenty of smaller actions you conveniently ignore as you blame it on Democrats. Or you blame the entire left when looking to include antifa and the like.
Don’t be afraid. It will get better in Jan....
“I think we want everyone to vote, that’s the American way.”
I think we want every (legal) citizen to vote, that’s the American way.
How has the right gotten away with calling the left snowflakes and saying they're too sensitive for so long? The same people who repeatedly say, "Who cares what celebrities think?" get extremely upset every time a celebrity (or really anybody) says something against Trump/republicans. Republicans are the real snowflakes apparently.
Ok, got illegal ones—show us the vote!
Got a yuger lying President; show us or sit down. Good luck. I have a database with over 5,000 lies. What you got.
Pointing out a celebrities stupid statement or hypocrisy is not the same as needing therapy dogs and play-doh parties to help cope when we lose an election.
"now that you own the largest assassination attempt in US history "
Do tell?
Its OK if you need those things Mark; it will get better....
JR- mailbombs to how many sitting public officials? Here's your comparison to that: https://scholarcommons.usf.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer= https://www.google.com/& httpsredir=1&article=1665&context=jss
I am sure you can refute this because you are so much more than just a big bloviated bag of hot air :>) I'm rootin fer ya big guy
Now, your turn --- well, actually you appeared to skip your turn by deflecting with another issue, as is your way. So now, show us a bigger Presidential liar than your King Trump as a President, sitting in office, lying at a dozen a day or so...… Use either the quality or quantity metric as you so choose. Although quality is going to be very subjective and, at some point, Trump's quantity actually also speaks to his quality. He is that far off the legitimacy scale.
Good luck, again, I is rooting fer ya.
"now that you own the largest assassination attempt in US history "
"Or you blame the entire left when looking to include ANTIFA and the like. "
hypocrisy much?
1. for starters - for it to be an attempt - you need to actually have the intent to commit harm with something capable of that result. you know like the individual who fired shots into the Daytona Republican Party Office - see that's an attempt.
https://www.facebook.com/VolusiaCountyRepublicanParty/posts/1315064415300720?__tn__=-R
2. "There is no invasion. If we let all of these people in to live in NJ, it would be like adding two High Schools. " last I heard there were 7500 in the carivan - you admit to 5000 "We are NOW placing, and financing, over 5,000 American troops on the border to have a one soldier for every man, woman, and child that will be here"
Passaic County Technical Institute is one of the largest high schools in the country, and the largest in NJ with 4,500 students - with an $82M budget lol - drop in the bucket!
the list of media approve harassment and violence against trump supporters is up to 632..
https://www.breitbart.com/the-media/2018/07/05/rap-sheet-acts-of-media-approved-violence-and-harassment-against-trump-supporters/
3.. "There is no invasion of disease epidemic. They don’t have smallpox, no one does. FOX lies, your President lies."
did you check?
“The number of tuberculosis cases in New York City suddenly jumped by 10 percent last year — the largest increase since 1992.”
“TB disproportionately affects foreign-born New Yorkers — accounting for 86 percent of all cases in the city.”
oh - from where in particular?
“Many of the infected city residents came from China, the Dominican Republic, Ecuador, India or Mexico.” Some of the same countries participating in the migrant caravan
https://nypost.com/2018/03/26/nyc-tuberculosis-cases-soar-seeing-largest-increase-in-26-years/
the point is - none of us knows what they are carrying or not.
https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/fox-news-channel-beats-msnbc-cnn-combined-in-october-viewership
Yea um SD.... I don't think that blue wave is coming if these ratings indicate anything. Fox gets more viewers than CNN and MSNBC combined. It shows people are fed up with lefty leaning media.
"Its OK if you need those things Mark; it will get better."
I don't know what you're talking about... those "things" were needed by the liberal snowflakes when the Democrats lost the election.
Just one example:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/college/2016/11/15/heres-how-universities-are-offering-support-to-students-after-trumps-election/37424377/
Wow, things have really changed since I went to college.
Boston University's Center of Gender, Sexuality and Activism also hosted a "Post Election Recovery" meeting.
"We had the overhead lights off and Christmas lights on, so it was really relaxing. People just sat around and chilled and drank egg nog and hot chocolate and ranted and stuff," said Isabel Stevenson, a Boston University sophomore and a co-liaison for BU CGSA. "It was very comforting."
Still waiting JR.......link diversion doesn’t slip the noose...meanwhile, we continue on Skippy’s reality tour....
1. You ate kidding, right? Are you really saying since it was not effective, he had no intent? Hey, we told you your education demographic...
2. I said the size of two High Schools, somehow you converted the cost of education to the cost of immigrants? Then you switched gears to leftist violence using a totally discredited news source. You need to write these before you start drinking....
3. I quoted Trump’s fear of invasion smallpox and lepers, you jump to TB to show us how Trump is right and then post the multi-counrty NYC sources, none of which include the vast majority of the caravan. OK, different disease and different countries — but hey, proves me wrong, I get it.....
Your final point: nobody knows is also wrong. We have 15 years of caravans, we know. We know Hondouras, we know what they have.
Skippy et al; you have nothing to fear except what Trump tells you to fear. And he lies. All the time. Every day. Twice on Sunday. There is no invasion. There is a caravan. We have had them before. We survived. We thrived.
And you’re in fine company, Mets is judging election results by comparing ratings between the single right wing MSM and one of the million leftist MSM outlets. And happy hour analysis.
JR’s trying to figure out how the internet works: hint—frink less. (sometimes the blue thingee does not work and u need to copy/paste outside the blue).
And Mark can’t figure oht why he is afraid except that snowflakes were first.... Of course. Foreshadowing. It will be alright Mark. It will be Mueller time only two Fridays from now.
SD, I'm serious. That link/those links do not work for me, I'm getting 404 errors. Please repost.
I tried copy/paste the 2 links that you carelessly posted, individually; I could not get either to work.
What exactly is it that you are alluding to me being afraid of SD?
You are making less sense than usual.
And that’s what stops you from answering.....sure.
It’s one link: copy/paste at the second https to the end and that should work.
Not to worry Mark, no worries.
https://www.breitbart.com/border/2018/10/30/report-central-american-migrants-set-fire-to-mexican-immigration-facility/
Some more of that peaceful caravan just seeking to be free.
Central American Migrants Set Fire to Mexican Immigration Facility.
Clearly ALT-RIGHT fake news. total lies. These are loving families and anybody who doesnt want the mob.... er, um... loving group of undocumented democra.... er, um... people to bring us their loving diversity is racist.
CNN proposed headline
Honduran Engineer and Scientist demonstrates the inadequacy of Current Mexican Civil Engineering Code.
On 10/22 Breitbart publishes Caravan burns American Flags, Swasticas, etc. Fake news.
So I will wait for second source before accepting what you readily do.
VOX may lean left, strongly left, but has factual reporting. Breitbart has a lot of fake news. You can do better.
panic setting in for the GOP.
Vote to liquidate Health Care over 60 times?
Yet plenty of $$$ for top .0001% tax cut?
Gimme a lie, any lie to deflect from reality.
Was going to post that both the VOX story and the Breitbart stories used a story by others to justify their left/right positions by continually nipping out our emotional jugulars. See the linked stories and google the rest to see what I mean. IOW, they both suck, equally.
But then I read another all-emotional post and I think “do I really need to post that these news reports are nothing but emotional triggers?”. Sadly it’s mission accomplished, for both sides, again. VOX and Breitbart have succeeded in their goal by manipulating nothing burgers into something the facts are not.
I really do hate manipulative media.
Another assassination attempt from the unhinged left. Maybe SD and Stymie should take a more 'civil' tone as their rhetoric is clearly ginning up their team to violence. Shameful, just shameful :
Political Violence – Republican Party Headquarters Shot Up in Florida
At least 4 bullets were fired through the windows of the Volusia County Republican headquarters late Sunday night or early Monday morning.
At the time of the shooting, no one was in the building. Workers arrived Monday morning to find the windows shot out of the South Daytona building. The shooting happened on the same day that gubernatorial candidate Ron DeSantis was scheduled to visit the location.
https://www.ammoland.com/2018/10/political-violence-republican-party-headquarters-shot-up-in-florida/?utm_source=Ammoland+Subscribers&utm_campaign=6b92343806-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_6f6fac3eaa-6b92343806-21229169#axzz5VVaGy5oT
So this is SD's argument:
the recent "mail bomber" perpetrated "the largest assassination attempt in US history "
Not sure how you can make that claim, you only have to go back to ANY of the recent school shootings to find an "attempt" that not only DID kill people- but could have killed more than the mailbomber (there's your "attempted" part.) I mean, after all- 30 round magazines = 30 attempts, right?
EDIT: or the guy that shot up the Synagogue. MUCH bigger "attempt" (and more successful), than the mail bomber.
Oklahoma City to find a much higher- SUCCESSFUL (not just attempted)- mass murder.
Hell, even Jeffrey Dahmer had bigger numbers.
As far as who "owns it", so not sure where you're getting "we own it" (whoever "we" is) from. Well, yes I do- you're unhinged, foaming with rage, and completely overcome by confirmation bias. You're trying to CREATE "news" instead of just accepting the facts... just like the MSM.
I'll tell you what: when you take responsibility ("own") the torture of a Trump voter on FB, Trump voters being attacked, all the CURRENT death threats against Trump on twitter RIGHT NOW, and all of this:
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/07/05/democrats-civility-1960s-violence-218948
https://nypost.com/2018/07/29/when-will-democrats-condemn-the-lefts-growing-turn-to-violence/
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/09/the-rise-of-the-violent-left/534192/
https://spectator.org/normalizing-democrat-violence/
...then, maybe, we can talk.
Tiny.
Jit: both Skippy and I use Media Bias reports to judge bias and level of factual content. I am sure you know better so once you show us your database we’ll use you as the source....
JR — so, I am talking mail bomber and you post a meme about Israel. Interesting that American Jews in Pittsburgh left Trump on the tarmac rejecting his visit because of his rhetoric of violence. I am sure you are right about the Israeli’s but not sure the relevance to tour already fractured logic. MAGA not those Israeli giveaways by Trump. Some dealmaker.
Then you take another logical leap and start comparing assasination to mass murder and school shootings. Interesting approach. What’s next, the mail bombings not as bad as WWII? Even more people killed there.
I find your argument that since the bombs didn’t go off it does not count ludicrous especially from a guy overwhelmed by the level of violence of people getting in other people’s faces in public spaces. It was the largest assasination attempt. Attempts to violence are violent according to your own code which you conveniently forgot when it suits you.
And then to complete your fantasy logic, you roll it to the entire left as the violent culprit. Is antifa part of the Democratic Party? Does that mean you are owning the Tree of Life shooting and all the heinous acts of the alt right White Nationalists in America as part of the right and part of the Tepublican party?
Rand Paul was not attacked by his neighbor for political reasons, it was grass clippings. And you lnow that but went there anyways.
The NYPost is Trump's political ally; that’s a hack job op ed; not news or facts.
And Democrats have called out violence from all sides.
Yes, we have a violent past, the left has a violent past, and that violence has been directed against both sides upon occassion and every time, is wrong IMO. In the 60’s, we had been lied to, for many years, by both sides. Our kids were dying in Vietnam for a lie, a lie covered up by the domino theory, a theory proven false over time. And the protestors were being killed too. We were coming apart.
But none of that is assasination; neither is the synagogue mass murder. You are conflating things to make your point.
When you get on point, if you can, let’s discuss.
Can we just get this election over.... I am jonesing for some Russian collusion news…. Mexidone is just not a great alternative to mainlining the good stuff.
:>)
SD what would you call thousands of people showing up at the border, claiming asylum, are free to enter our country before a court date, and then don’t show up for it… Are you kidding me… These people are invaders. They’re taking advantage of a broken system that your side refuses to help remedy. What’s the current total of illegals up to…. 22 million last count? What do you think is going to happen if this continues on for decades to come? This country will collapse from taking in so many poor people who leech off public assistance. You also have people who purposely fly in here from other countries to give birth to their children so that they are citizens which then entitles those children to come back at any point in their lives and collect off the system if they so choose. The amendment this talks about is being taken out of context. It was meant to make sure freed slaves and their children would be citizens not for people to border jump or fly in to make their unborn kids citizens. But you know what, you’re the party that wants activist judges and open borders and would love to rip up the constitution if you were able to and start over. The whole world is invading us instead of going through the proper channels and Mr Horseblinders that you are doesn’t seem to care. The rest of us are racists and bigots right? God help us if Democrats are ever in control again…
https://www.wired.com/story/mail-bomb-scares-misinformation-storm/
Here’s a good article in wired about how misinformation from both sides has effected the mail bombing issue
“But the lack of evidence as to the perpetrators didn't stop the outrage machine on the left from blaming the attempted attacks on their opponents on the right. Nor did it stop fringe voices on the right from calling the bomb scares "false flag" attacks.”
The enemy here is the media and how both sides have their dog whistle echo chambers.
Fact is a number of the devices were fake - employees opened them and took pictures - the one that went to Soros got hand carried into the woods lol. The right dosent own this just like the left dosent own the guy who shot up a baseball game - with the current state of the media people who are already mentally ill get triggered.
Wired’s article basically says to wait for actual evidence before speculating because without the results of an investigation most of what’s talked about is fake news lol.
Great advice imo!
I don’t know why Mets ascribes every leftist ill he perceives to me; his apparent alpha liberal. I would rather talk issues and facts, not generalities and personal attacks like when you scream that I am Mr. Horseblinders. At least, spell your slurs correctly....
Mets says “what would you call thousands of people showing up at the border, claiming asylum, are free to enter our country before a court date, and then don’t show up for it… Are you kidding me… These people are invaders” Apparently I should call them invaders… But did you look for any facts before you made your knee-jerk assumption?
“According to Justice Department data from the last five available years, around 60 to 75 percent of non-detained migrants have attended their immigration court proceedings.” OK, I can say this is most, you can say it's terrible. However, that’s all migrants, not just asylum seekers.
“While the data is scarce, they show higher rates, compared to when all migrants are tallied together. One source of data comes from an Obama-era program that released asylees from detention and matched them with case managers who encouraged compliance with court-ordered obligations. As of April, the Family Case Management Program, or FCMP, had 630 enrolled families. Before the Trump administration ended the program in June, participants had a 100 percent attendance record at court hearings. They also had a 99 percent rate of check-ins and appointments with Immigration and Customs Enforcement, according to a Department of Homeland Security Office of Inspector General report.” Uh oh, your knee-jerk is looking weak....
Other assessments are that asylum seekers have a very high rate of attendance, and all of this is WITHOUT mandatory bracelets. You can look up other sources, the data is pretty similar IF you bothered to look:
www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2018/jun/26/wolf-blitzer/majority-undocumented-immigrants-show-court-data-s/
“They’re taking advantage of a broken system that your side refuses to help remedy.” METS, even the hardest alt righter Nationalist will say it’s both sides: even JIT :>) (not an alt righter, but indeed a Nationalist)
“What’s the current total of illegals up to…. 22 million last count?” 11M except at one Ivy League institution and your knee-jerk.
“What do you think is going to happen if this continues on for decades to come?” At his rate, 11M which has held pretty steady for over a DECADE. Again, you only need to look...…try PEW.
“The amendment this talks about is being taken out of context. It was meant to make sure freed slaves and their children would be citizens not for people to border jump or fly in to make their unborn kids citizens.” Are we shifting course again? This from a 2A and Kavanaugh supporter. Suddenly we need to take the Constitution in it’s context of our times, not it’s words as written in their times. Can you spell “militia?” P E R S O N A L D E F E N S E.
“ But you know what, you’re the party” Yeah boy, I’m the party, I’m the party….. I've got the whole party in my hands, I've got the whole party...…
“ that wants activist judges and open borders” Like you don't want activist judges.... Come on, tell the truth. By the by, what ARE open borders. Can’t wait to hear you on that one.
“and would love to rip up the constitution if you were able to and start over.” You know, I can remember the last time I said that: NEVER. Another Metrumpian conclusion of hate.
“The whole world is invading us instead of going through the proper channels.” We got the whole world, invading us. We got the whole world invading us….. Mets, every channel I have recommended is proper. I don't know what your problem is.
“ Mr Horseblinders that you are doesn’t seem to care.” Yeah, I just want to follow the law, be decent, and treat people like I would like to be treated. But you seem to relish the hate-speak, the rash-talk, and especially some solid scapegoating. What’s your story? Oh wait, you told us yourself: “The rest of us are racists and bigots right?” Whatever you say Mets. You do realize that Latino’s are Caucasian, right? So you need to adjust your hate-speak on that one.
"Then you take another logical leap and start comparing assasination to mass murder and school shootings. "
What's the difference? Cold-blooded murder is cold-blooded murder. What makes "assassination" any worse? (answer: nothing. Because it isn't.)
"And Democrats have called out violence from all sides. "
As has the White House, officially, re: the mail bomber. Not only calling ALL political violence bad, but then catching the guy in 2 days.
You are conflating things to make your point.
...says public aggrandizer #1. "Biggest assassination attempt in US history" LOL. You make up things out of whole cloth. Well, maybe not totally.... you probably have 1/1024th of actual fact in there.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/migrants-traveling-to-us-sue-trump-government-claim-violation-of-constitutional-rights
So somehow these people walking through Mexico were able to file a suit in Washington? Yea um, obviously Democrats or their supporters are involved. And why would anyone of sound mind want people we know nothing about walking around our country before they have a hearing? A large portion of these people never show up for their court dates. Would you let strange people you don’t know have access to your home? If you think there aren’t criminals mixed in with regular people then you are blind. I don’t know why ALL people can’t see this isn’t a good situation just letting everyone in. If you have nothing to hide then follow the process correctly and come here the right way. Until then it’s just people who know they can take advantage of a broken system. The Presidents call for a tent city is the only way to guarantee people won’t take off and skip their hearings. I don’t want hear, “Oh it isn’t humane”…. Says who? If you have food, shelter, and a place to go to the bathroom it’s like camping. We can’t ignore stories like the one of the illegal who shot and killed two police officers in California and then said he’d break out of prison and kill more. We can’t ignore the senseless death of Kate Steinle. We can’t ignore all the bodies that pop up from MS-13 killings. We can’t ignore those who have died from drunk driving illegals. Our first priority are citizens. If some of these people in these caravans become citizens then welcome to the family. This is about rule of law. If you don’t have a country with that then it isn’t a country.
I guess it's the old story - do you make changes the easy way, i.e. the president just does it, or the hard way - change the law.
Not sure how someone who is not a citizen can make these claims...…. However, you are severely challenged when it comes to the facts. And you left out the smallpox.
"And why would anyone of sound mind want people we know nothing about walking around our country before they have a hearing?" Has some actually asked for that? The process calls for an expedited deportation element combined with an initial hearing before release.
"obviously Democrats or their supporters are involved" Trump colludes with Russians too.... :>) Same level of certainty.
"A large portion of these people never show up for their court dates." Not true, see above.
"Would you let strange people you don’t know have access to your home? " With 800, no 5,000, no 15,000 armed soldiers with Trump's shoot to kill orders for thrown rocks, invading the home of Texas, I think you might be asking the wrong people.
"If you think there aren’t criminals mixed in with regular people then you are blind." How many criminals are you saying there are? Because asylum seekers are less criminal than your friends.
"If you have nothing to hide then follow the process correctly." This is not true. They are following the process correctly; the asylum process. Its even an international treaty which I am sure Nationalists like you disown.
"The Presidents call for a tent city is the only way to guarantee people won’t take off." City? You have to create a prison for that guarantee. You can get 99% return rate without doing any of that expense. And then you can save the freakin $50M for the soldiers.
"We can’t ignore stories like the one of the illegal who shot and killed two police officers in California and then said he’d break out of prison and kill more." Anecdotes do not a truth make; there is no statistic in your story. You can't prove that asylum seekers have a worse criminality rate than your friends.
Your President is lying to you, more and more as the election comes nearer, the Nixon grand jury impeachment roadmap is released, Stone comes under the microscope and looks to be a Russian collusion conduit, Bannon emails are leaked to throw Stone under the bus, and more. HIs entire campaign executive staff is in jail, his businesses are all being investigated for tax fraud, his accountants and lawyers have turned state's evidence. He is desperate, he is losing. And he needs a scapegoat that you will believe in.
And now the Pentagon Caravan Papers are released showing the Military thinks this deployment is a waste of time, a waste of money. Gee, Mets. I would believe them before I believe Trump or his sycophants like you. They are more worried about your crackpot militias streaming down there because Trump has called than they are from your crime-ridden MS-13 caravan. The papers show
Property Crime - Moderate
Crimes Against Persons
San Diego - Moderate
Nogales - Low
Militias - Many reports of these fools stealing arms and such
Protest - Usually peaceful unless extreme right or left participation
So, why did the military leak this if they were gung-ho to go to the border? https://www.newsweek.com/trump-administration-migrant-caravan-border-troops-1196855
"U.S. military intelligence analysis documents obtained by Newsweek reveal that defense officials do not believe there are terrorists or other national security threats present within the so-called “migrant caravan.”"
"These documents show that U.S. troops are preparing for encounters not so much with the asylum seekers, but with armed white supremacist American crackpots at the U.S. border. Because they are ones with all the guns. Not the migrant caravan."
https://boingboing.net/2018/11/01/u-s-military-bracing-for-for.html
The problem is you have two sides that are idiots that won't work together. You need 60 votes in the Senate to pass immigration reform. So unless some Dems vote yes it's dead in the water. I can't blame the President from taking action. Wasn't it Obama who said "I have a phone and a pen"... Talk about a double standard...
Last month, 250,000 jobs were created and wages rose more than 3% for the first time since the recession!
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/02/us-created-250000-jobs-in-oct-vs-190000-jobs-expected.html
Additionally...
Employment rose to a record high of 156.6 million.
Labor force participation rate increased by 0.2 percentage point to 62.9 percent in October
Employment-population ratio edged up by 0.2 percentage point to 60.6 percent in October and has increased by 0.4 percentage point over the year.
Trump approval rating 51%
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/political_updates/prez_track_nov02
meanwhile - here is the actual suit - they are claiming a violation of their due process under the Fifth Amendment. there is nothing cognizable in this suit before the courts since they have not been stopped or denied an asylum request yet.
https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/5026840/11-1-18-Pineda-v-Trump-Complaint.pdf
Trump is making a stand on an issue that almost 70% of Americans want addressed.
as I have stated repeatedly - jobs, economy immigration are key. everything else is smoke- as you can see above it's working
SD why is it so hard for you to believe criminals also come in with the regular people? You are in some major denial.... MS-13 is a myth right? In your mind Trump made them up. The stories we hear about people who lose loved ones because of illegals... Another thing Trump had made up right? You have this so-called compassion for people we know nothing about, but citizens get killed and it's like, ah just another lie by Trump in your mind...
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/voices/2018/08/23/illegal-immigrant-molly-tibbitts-murder-crime-column/1074055002/
Stories like this are made up right SD? If you don't think this is a problem, then I feel sorry for you. We're not talking about the murder rate by white, black, and Asian citizens. We're talking about murders by people that don't belong here. That is preventable with proper immigration reform.
Yup, you're in like Flynn, Skippy.... Mission accomplished. Almost impossible to believe a loss would ensure given this economy. Makes you wonder why Trump only campaigns in Trump country.
Perhaps because outside of Trump country, except in a few pockets like Warren County, the Trump effect is not only not seen, but things seem to be going backwards.
Seems like the Trump rose has wilted on Wall Street as well.
For example, the loss of the property tax deduction means most of NJ is making less as is CA, NY and a few other higher profile states. So, while the wage increase, given the employment rate, was a long time coming, and is a great thing, our joy should be balanced against Trump's tax code that is sucking the life out of it here. Yet, finally it's time to look for a new job! And given the inflation and interest rates, you better be looking too!
It is good news Skippy, Yet none of this detracts from the fact Trump has debt-fueled his way here. It's fake financial news. It's an artificial stimulus targeting the uber rich and the corporations who then convince you to feel good. He tax cut his way to glory while kicking the can down the road. Sure, don't believe me, but his pandering to the middle class during the election cycle with a 10% tax cut pretty much confirms his current tax target is NOT the middle class.
Meanwhile, Trump has increased our national debt to it's highest level ever, that's highest EVER. He has reached a $1T per year deficit, this years bill will be the highest deficit in six years. That's higher than the second half of Obama's reign.
Trump has raised our inflation rate 300% from 2015 and our interest rates three times higher too. Sure, around 3% seems small, but ask JIT what that does to the value of money over time. Our trade deficit, where we are punished like a tax with all those tariffs, is at its highest rate since 2015. Our 2018 goods deficit has reached a new world's record. This sucks away most if not all of any wage gain, especially in NJ-like states.
So, prepare yourself, there's a very dark cloud surrounding this silver lining. And this time Trump does not have Daddy or the taxpayer to bail his bad debts and development out.
Mets, I understand that you don’t believe asylum seekers have a legitimate, legal, and moral reason to be here. You are a Nationalist. It makes sense.
I don’t agree and the law, our international treaties, and our national heritage agree with me.
My point though is you’re not talking crime rate at all; you are sharing anecdotes. Of course I feel bad about anyone suffering violence. But anecdotes are not statistics. You are using these examples to generalize about an entire demographic as a fact. That is not truth. That’s fear mongering especially given the actual facts.
If your metric is: I heard of some instances of bad behavior and therefore the entire class must go, then will you just stop at asylum seekers?
Asylum seekers do belong here. There is nothing illegal in asylum seeking. There is nothing wrong with walking to a port of entry and declaring. Even if you cross illegally, throw your arms in the air, claiming asylum, it’s a frackin misdemeanor, not a felony.
Asylum seekers are generally not criminal. Like I said, you probably have a greater criminal element amongst your friends and family. Statistically speaking that is. Factually speaking, you are actually criminally safer every time we add an asylum immigrant to your indigenous American pool.
You are conflating asylum seekers with illegal alien and other immigration issues in order to create your big bag of fake fear to amplify your scapegoating. The facts don’t support you on a number of levels
SD We're not even 2 years into his first term. Obama had quarters with negative GDP. If the GDP remains steady there's no way with all the new jobs which adds tax money that we'll continue to add debt unless there's reckless spending.
Yeah, I thought that one would take you some time. Try this, and look for the words, tipping points, inflation, boom and bust... https://www.thebalance.com/trump-plans-to-reduce-national-debt-4114401
The real problem will be Trump's problem if we get into a problem. He views national debt as personal debt and feels he can "deal' his way out of any problem like he has in the past. It does not work that way..... Sovereign debt reacts differently than personal debt or corporate debt.
Trump, like you, has been blowing air kisses during the campaign about how he will pay down the debt saying enhanced GDP will continue, tariffs will pay off, etc. Most economists say he's full of it. http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2018/08/06/Trump-Says-Tariff-Revenue-Will-Help-Pay-Down-National-Debt-Heres-Real-Math
But you believe.
So in your little world we should be taxed to death. What’s funny is even with higher taxes the debt was dramatically increased. You provide no solutions and just complain SD.
"So in your little world we should be taxed to death." That's what you say because you have nothing factual to say. I never said that: its fake Mets.
" What’s funny is even with higher taxes the debt was dramatically increased."
Again, you have no facts, no numbers, and not even a time frame. Our forum does not refuse pixels, but yours are the factual voids of the Nationalist.
This time the tax side, next time the spend side.
Actually, fiscally, I am much more conservative than you or your King without being a simpleton about it. While you feel any tax is too much tax, I believe a fair tax balanced with profitable spending is best. Yours is the vision of the simpleton, see a tax, it's bad whereas mine requires quite a bit more work and effort to quantify all the qualitative variables. What is fair? What is profitable? Takes work. Much easier for the simpleton to just say NO.
So you come up with: "So in your little world we should be taxed to death." First, "little," cute dig. "Taxed to death," I can't win on that one since you feel any tax is death. Too simple.
Then: "with higher taxes the debt was dramatically increased." when, how much, what are you talking about? Since any taxes in our lifetime were higher than now, you certainly opened a wide data set to pick from. Since we have a dramatic increase, you gots to be right somewheres. Again, a point I can't debate. It's simple.
Of course in your simple views, you overlook The Great Recession versus the current expansion. Ask yourself this, why in Trump's expansion do we see "dramatic increases" to the deficit resulting in the highest debt in the entire world in our entire history --- owned by Trump and company? Or why during The Great Recession when we were "taxed to death" did Obama match and exceed many of Trump's fiscal numbers and trends? How can this ever happen given your economic model and assumptions. Do you think there might be something more than simple at play here?
Economically, it may look like wine and roses, you got your tax rebates, Darrin has beer money, everybody got a job, and now salaries are even rising. But we are on a fiscal precipice where we no longer have a safety net. There will be NO stimulus when the bough breaks. There will be no China to bail us out when the limb cracks. You can print money, but what is the worth when the world turns away? You have a tax-cut, debt-driven, fake expansion which is a bubble fake fiscal promises that can only lead to one thing: bust. A hemorrhage without a cauter.
Then again, I could be crazy :>)
Oh SD, what a shame you aren't teaching the young skulls full of mush Economics 101 at Centenary. I'm sure they could benefit from your illustrious wisdom and life experience in these matters.
Where were you when Obama doubled the debt? Now you complain that Trump hasn’t fixed it yet and added a little of his own... I can at least wait patiently and see what happens. You are ready with your pitchfork and torch ready to oust him from office. You’re a funny little man.
Thanks JR, that was most kind of you. Hopefully you will be complimented ten fold in kind on that.
Mets, I guess that means you can't answer the question in numbers? Empty hat.
Funny how you were all up-in-fiscal-arms during 2008 to 2016, Trump promises $0 debt in 8 years and now that in year 2, you issue your now oft rationalization: "wait patiently and see what happens." Suddenly, according to Mets, $3T additional debt is a case of: "Trump hasn’t fixed it yet and added a little of his own." A little $3T on top of $19T is a 16% increase or 8% per year. So, for those with less patience, Trump is on track to double the debt before his second term is over and is on track to do exactly that.
Unless you believe there's magic.
On top of that, you both ignore any scholarly estimate of the future in lieu of listening to Trump truths and being patient.
Have you even seen the GDP you would need to make Trump truth --- actually true? Of course not. You don't have a clue that the current or estimated GDP growth will have the effect you've been told and believe will happen. You don't even have a clue that was you say is even close to true, much less true. No numbers. You are patient, I will give you that. Patient like a sheeple.
Here is a thought for you, maybe if you crazy liberals would actually let the man do his job instead of putting up wall after wall and march after march that he has to keep paying police to man the debt would actually be less then it is now?
You continually complain (over, and over) out of one side of your mouth, but meanwhile the actions that you condone (marches, protests, rallies against trump) are costing this country money....so which one is it?
You cannot complain about spending while being a cause of the spending....Look how much this whole stupid migrant caravan is going to cost this country! Yet, you...condone it......unreal!
I mean, not for nothing, but how much do you think this whole Judge Kavanaugh ordeal cost us? Oh yeah...and HE STILL GOT APPOINTED...but because the democrats put up walls (and you condoned it) guess how much the country had to spend.....but keep complaining about the debt my friend...all while back door creating it....
Wow, it’s just like Nixon all over again!
If ony those “crazy liberals” would get out of the way.... Its the protests that are increasing the debt? That’s a good one.... He is sending more troops than we have in Afghanistan, like more than half of all of Chicagos police force, like 1.5 times all of Hackettstown, and to police liberal protests is eating up the budget? Condone the caravan? All I said was there is nothing illegal about asylum. You’re the one who wants to crush refugees fleeing from terror. You’re the one who supports ripping babies from mothers. How much money did you waste on that totally ineffective and apparently illegal actions that Trump had to walk back?
Think of all the money we would save if we didn’t security harden all his golf clubs, if he actually stayed at the Whitehouse working instead of vacationing and campaign rallying. Wouldn’t need all those fighter jet millions to fly over NJ.
Now he wants a 10% tax cut for the middle class before EOY pretty much telling you who dodn’t get the last tax cut but also cha-ching, more deficit.
No Darrin, the big effect is the tax cut on the revenue side and the Trump budget overspending, mostly on Defense, on the spending side. He has added $3T to the debt and there is no end in sight. A great economy and our deficits are growing.
And you blame some marchers and a Senate investigation. Wow. It is just like those Nixon years; efette snobs, damned hippies, all over again. Cool.
Darrin- don’t think it costed as much as the Benghazi circus.
Or as much as voting to kill the Affordable Care Act
Over 60 times.
And if stifling free speech and the right to protest are “budget busters” might I suggest the Coward in Chief cut back on his golf game at Mar-A-Embarrassment?
When they come for your SS and Medicare it will be too late.
And you know they are.
McConnell pretty much stated that as a necessary “ adjustment”
omg . . . I can't even . . . with all this nonsense . . . blue wave petering out as we speak . . . red tide, unforcasted and largely ignored gaining steam as we speak . . . get ready for some surprises Tuesday night . . . over and out !
SD I got a tax cut so I don't know what you're talking about. If he wants to give us more back great. You're the one bragging about all the returns you get back on investments. I'm guessing you're not a regular middle class person and will be fine regardless of whether there's a tax cut or not. A middle class person could be making $50K a year or $200K a year. The variance is large. Now you're worried about troops costing money at the border. Yeah how about the over $100 billion it costs every year to deal with illegals flowing in here... Yet liberals cry about a $25 billion wall. So I guess you're ok with fentanyl flowing through here and killing our young people, the criminals that come in with the poor people and kill our citizens, and the extra money it costs us to educate the illegal children. You offer no solutions to fix the problem, so I guess it's ok to you.
"I got a tax cut so I don't know what you're talking about." Of course you got a tax cut, just apparently not a good one. Or is Trump just buying votes? But did you get a fair one? Most say NO. Most say NJ suffered more than most due to SALT deduction being cut. But hey, maybe less is enough for you and maybe you don't have much of an income or house. Heck, we're suing him because it's that bad. https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/17/politics/new-york-tax-lawsuit/index.html
Meanwhile if you haven't figured out his tax cut gives Darrin some beer money, and the corporations, and the uber rich, not rich, but uber rich huge breaks and returns without cutting much loopholes, well, again, I can't help you.
"You're the one bragging about all the returns you get back on investments." Ain't bragging this week, and have pretty much stopped investing. We're into fixed assets again! No one will be fine if the wells come off and the way Trump is driving the bus fueled by Obama-like stimulus-level debt, those wheels are getting quite loose.
"Yeah how about the over $100 billion it costs every year to deal with illegals flowing in here..." Got numbers for this or just empty hat again? Because I have numbers showing the profits. I mean.....think those fruit farmers are taking a loss on this?
"So I guess you're ok with fentanyl flowing through here and killing our young people" Do you seriously think your wall is going to stop the drug traffic. Again, I can't fix that opinion for you.....
"the criminals that come in with the poor people and kill our citizens" how many, got numbers for that, again, or do you just have some more tragic lurid anecdotes. Cuz I got some doozies about the alt right, hard right and right wing attacks on civilians, business, media, and politicians. Opinions, stories, or statistics; let's try statistics. Got any?
"and the extra money it costs us to educate the illegal children." Boom --- OK, on this one you don't have you back it up; I agree, it's an issue.
"You offer no solutions to fix the problem, so I guess it's ok to you." Bull. I have a number of recommendations above. One, e-verify, ends the illegal alien issue, literally overnight. But you favor a wall which will do absolutely nothing except provide King Trump a photo op or two. I have also addressed the asylum issue showing how to reduce the massive waste of money you presume to be the only way while assuring seekers don't fade into the woodwork before trial. Any other greater adjustment to the asylum process needs to be handled by treaty and you know Trump is incompetent when it comes to deal making or working with others so that ain't happening during this reign. But it's all above, and you have even commented on it I think. You just conveniently forgot because you were focused on liberals crying, bragging, worrying, and being OK with illegal drugs. You know, the important demeaning stuff.
Let us know when you are ready to bring facts and statistics to the table versus your empty hat.
Muttsman,they should have spent a little money educating you.
The fentanyl you speak of comes from CHI-NA-
Confirmed by the US government.
You must have feathers- you squawk like a parrot-
A parrot of Tass...err, faux news
Stymie, Metsman used fentanyl as an example of why defense spending is justified to control the southern border where drugs from many countries come into ours. China included.
But to fully control drugs coming to the US we’d have to firewall every package: UPS, FedEx, USPS, etc. Can I ask what your proposed solution to that entry point is? How should the President handle that, and would the solution be a partisan one or a goal-based one?
Seniors are going to need that Fentanyl thanks to the drug addicts who disrupted the normal supply of pain killers to those who have legitimate needs.
Now we just need the Chinese to get those other drugs we need for less money, such as epi pens that are worth 2.50 but we are extorted to pay 500.00 for. You know, the drugs with pricing schemes that Trump said he was going to do something about- but does absolutely nothing. At least the Chinese are trying to help. And the Dems-Obama let the criminal bankers go when he had them red handed- and Clinton who eliminated Glass Steagall- And Bush with the real estate schemes.
Funny how so many pick sides-it's like good cop, bad cop. The two party system is so corrupt it is disgusting. What do you expect-they are all lawyers- and lawyers are taught to be greedy, obfuscate, withhold, and deceive- that's what makes a good lawyer, one that tricks the other side.
Hey Dodgeball,it was the Community Reinvestment act sponsored (1979) by Barney Frank and Chris Dodd (who was in bed with Anthony Mozillo of Country Wide Financial fame) and signed by Bill Clinton that got the whole ball rolling for the 2008 crash not George Bush. The Republicans did not have the nuts to stop the freight train rolling down the tracks but they knew this was not going to end well.
Hammer,
No arguments from me. If you say so I will take your word for it.
They are all a bunch of cretins.
Nuts to stop it, naaah, they just found a way to profit from it as well, allow it to happen, then blame the other side.
It's all one giant criminal enterprise, run by a bunch of shady lawyers.
Just wait till they ask for a constitutional convention-under the guise of eliminating anchor babies-once they open that door-kiss the rest of your constitution goodbye-your right to bear arms will be the next target-don't say I did not warn you. The muppets will think it's only for that one issue-anchor babies- then go along with it. You open that door a 70 car fully loaded freight train will be will be plowing right through what is left of the constitution. You won't recognize it when they are done.
That's always the risk; at some point it is inevitable but god help us that it isn't under Donald J. Trump...
ijay...libertarian is like Trump, on steroids! It’s not liberty, liberal, democrat or republican. It’s a misleading title: libertarian
“In North America, the term libertarian means what everywhere else is called a Classical Liberal. This is a person who essentially pushes for the rights of big business at any cost. The Libertarian party was, not surprisingly, started by the billionaire Koch brothers. Two key unspoken tenets of North American libertarianism: companies should never be regulated because the Little Guy must fend for himself, and companies should be free to pollute at will. This is a true and accurate description of North American libertarians attitudes although they always try to appear virtuous and intellectual. They are neither. In their effort to appear intelligent, libertarians is argue that in a free market (which has never existed) everything is fair. Not so. In any country that doesn't protect the little guy, big companies can pummel them into submission, particularly in the courts but also when the little guy is a shareholder or employee or a voter. Corporations power lets them get away with almost anything. Even economist Adam Smith would have rejected corporatism, because he believed companies should always be small.”
How did you take the tenets of libertarianism and come up with that
https://mises.org/sites/default/files/For%20a%20New%20Liberty%20The%20Libertarian%20Manifesto_3.pdf
For a New Liberty: The Libertarian Manifesto by Murray Rothbard - . Rothbard lays out the libertarian position and how it applies to a wide variety of issues.
“How did you take the tenets of libertarianism and come up with that”
Because it’s eaier to demonize an ideology than to understand it.
Koch’s support Libertarian and Conservative Think Tanks and Republican candidates.
I have yet to see much Libertarian social policy espoused around here. Usually HLers seem to go the other way. Folks here seem more about less regulation, fiscal conservatism, and smaller government versus the full Libertarian program.
And HL seems to be getting very political itself with more and more ad funding coming from a certain clientele.
I don’t think anyone agrees 100% with any party program - you pick what’s most important to you and go with that side. - we only get 2 choices.
IMO, its more about personal branding. Its not stylish to affiliate with the dulopoly these days. There are more registered Independents than either Dems or Repubs for a reason. Affiliation. Let’s face it, saying your a Libertarian is cool. Rebellious. Trendy. and much safer than saying Socialist ;-) No one ever picks on a Libertarian ;-). Except if they shoot their grass clippings on your lawn.
And amazingly, when push comes to shove, they vote conservative. At least the Infependents swing both ways :-)
But to claim Libertarianism and shun every social policy is disingenuous, that’s not picking and choosing. That’s more like “I lean towards Libertarianism but have never attended a meeting or donated time or money.” Probably wrong on my assumption, but....
The Libertarian movement was started many decades ago when the Republican Party went off on a tangent. Libertarians embrace the true Republican mindset. Take a look I doubt anyone could disagree with them, unless you are on a lot of social programs and not working:
https://www.lp.org
I think it’s the same with socialists - they vote democrat to have their voice heard and not take away from a candidate that they absoloutely don’t hate. I wanted Gary Johnson in 16 but I’m my opinion it would have been a wasted vote. As you know I and others feel the government should have no mandate on drugs or abortion and I hate that about the GOP. I guess what I am trying to say is we all have to chose the least horrible option in a given election.
Seems to be a fly in this ointment. I disagree with them often. Everyone is on a lot of social programs and everyone who wants is working....
Skippy, we all play lesser of evils, I holding my nose over the stinkin BM vote myself. But not agreeing to an entire social policy platform pretty much says you're part Libertarian at best. Just saying that is seems less government, less regulation, less taxes, more guns, is the mantra around here versus a true Libertarian movement. Perhaps leaning right from Republicans but certainly not in the Libertarian rowboat, except in self-identification. Again, could be wrong, judging a book based on a few excerpts posted here.
Who is this guy Hugin ---- a Democrat? These are not Trumpian policies.... Too bad he's got so much hate speak behind him that I just can't believe his promises. The prostitute stuff is a low unproven allegation, a card a real man would not have played.
Too bad. Either the Dems in the primaries or the pub's in the election could of flushed BM, he may be not guilty but he sure ain't innocent either. He's in Kavanaugh country.
"I guess what I am trying to say is we all have to chose the least horrible option in a given election."
Which is why the 2-party system is BS.
And why many people feel the Libertarian platform is even less horrible than either R or D.
less government, less regulation, less taxes, more guns - definitely critical to me. I honestly don’t care for the legislation and enforcement of anyone’s morality - ergo LGBT marriage rights and that abortion of a bathroom bill we had.
I don’t care what others do and feel that as Americans we need to treat them equally and the government should not be involved in anything do do with ones body either.
In re Hugin - no idea - menendez could be dead 3 days and still win. It’s not a product of Trump either - it’s just how NJ rolls.
SD I've posted links many times about the cost of illegals. So google it.... And remember Molly Tibbets from a few months ago... Killed by an illegal. Kate Steinle.... killed by an illegal. The list is quite a few people so don't tell me to provide facts. The facts are there. You choose to ignore them.
Not disagreeing with you JR, but if we didn't have our 2 party system, wouldn't you still pick lesser of evils? Just more to pick from?
That's my point Skippy; your big government, personal responsibility kick in and Libertarians speak to you. But on social issues, social programs, you basically opt out for something else. That could make you a Tea Partier too.....
I think the best is JR's affirmation that he's a JFK-Democrat which, in modern times, means Republican. But let's face it, JFK-Democrat is so much cooler sounding.
I, myself, claim Clintonian-Democrat. Stop the bus, hold that knee-jerk, not Hilary, but Bill. That is, socially progressive and fiscally conservative --- perhaps not as conservative as some of you (I will never believe in fiscal absolutes, just say no fiscal policies, or Constitutional balanced budget and I love to spend money if it makes profit -- ie good tax programs). Clintonian Democrat as a brand does not seem cool though, even less after 2016, like Libertarian or JFK-Democrat, but hey, I thought it might catch on and it does describe who I think I am.
Here is some libertarian social policy
http://www.policyofliberty.net/e-books/Libertarian%20Social%20Policy.pdf
“Libertarians oppose proactive policies instituted by states: universal health care, public schools, the war on drugs, gun control, welfare and Social Security, environmentalist social policies, progressive income taxation, the Federal Reserve System, the draft (slavery), and aggressive wars—just to name a few policies (see http://www.lp.org/issues/issues.shtml).”
See... even the libertarians jump the shark sometimes. Opposed to PUBLIC SCHOOLS? lol
Yeah there’s a lot there not to agree with - I don’t think anyone fits an exact party line mold
Heck, the Paul’s believe FEMA budget should be passed to the states which I just find ludicrous.
I like a more balanced approach blending state’s rights with federal reach, personal responsibility with the “village,” socialism with capitalism. What I reject is one mantra solves every problem.
That’s why I reject things like “no new taxes” or Constitutional balanced budget amendment because there never is onky one answer.
I don't agree with every aspect of the LP, usually it is due to the challenges of our modern day. Healthcare is a big one. In the past the LP, say you were on a farm, would expect you to pay for the reasonably priced doctor to come to your house or seek medical assistance via religious based institutions; not the government. Things are different today along with technology and medical equipment that radically changes healthcare.
What’s regularly missing about libertarian views vs other views, at least in my mind anyway, is one simple baseline:
Do we choose to achieve societal goals through mutual, voluntary agreements or through the use of force? And if the answer is “both”, which direction should be favored?
Well, the use of force (or at least the constant threat of force) is currently the baseline for all modern political systems, and while there’s definitely some justification for it imo it’s completely wrong for us as a society to completely ignore that reality (our society is one based on the constant threat of force) just because we want stuff. Because people are inherently selfish. And that’s the only logical conclusion someone looking from the outside at our political system could make by watching how our politics plays out. Discussions and/or arguments today are never “should we impose our will over our neighbors?”. That’s always a given, that democracy is the right way to force others to bend to the will of the majority. Which is why politics is so flippin ridiculous because everyone just wants to argue over what they can get for themselves or their favored group, and what they can prevent others and their favored groups from getting. Republicrats really are the same in substance because Republicrats live and breath getting stuff and preventing others from having stuff, all under the threat of force of course.
IOW, I’ve always viewed the libertarians as having a different baseline from which their views stem, one based on non-aggression and voluntary action instead of the constant threat of force and mandatory participation.
"seek medical assistance via religious based institutions"
That's funny. I'd rather seek medical assistance from Amazon.
You mention the "constant threat of force." Yeah, this is what America is based on, laws and force. It has gotten to the extreme where a simple beer party in the woods with kids resulted in helicopters being dispatched from the State police to bust a kid with a bottle of beer in the woods, while granny is blind as a bat, demented, and driving a 5000 lb vehicle (weapon) down the road without being retested. Same kids that are ordered by law to sign up for selective service, get a gun and shoot somebody- they are mature enough to fly a 20 million dollar helicopter into battle, but too immature to drink a beer.
Where has all of the common sense gone?
How exactky does the LP get rid of the major elements of governmental force that you oft lament laboriously about.
Libertarian is about Liberty, and it also implies some level of self reliance. What to do about those who are not self-reliant? Yes we need a safety net but it is being abused today. Will limited Socialism work -- problems is that it never stays limited...
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/5-senate-longshots-who-could-surprise-the-midterm-elections
So are you voting for Menendez SD? Anyone who blasted Kavanaugh over Ford's half of a story allegations and then votes for Menendez is a hypocrite. There was actually evidence gathered by the FBI and he only got off because the jury couldn't come to a unanimous decision. That's a far cry from being not-guilty...
Wait, so Menendez got a full investigation, a trial and a jury, and Kavenaugh/Ford got a partial investigation, a partisan hearing controlled by pro-Kavenaugh forces, no trial, no jury and you think that’s the same?
I think you are in no place to call names.
And I am not voting for amyone; I already voted.
She named witnesses. They were interviewed. They had no clue what the woman was talking about. What exactly needed to be investigated after that? Yes sir, if you voted for Menendez then all your words and posturing on here are laughable.
“How exactky does the LP get rid of the major elements of governmental force that you oft lament laboriously about.”
The LP, in my opinion, does not present a workable solution in this day and age. However, that doesn’t mean that the party’s starting point of non-aggression, individual freedom and voluntary consent isn’t what we should all work toward.
Do you disagree with those starting points?
Compare LP goals to the goals of Republicrats who maintain power by, believe it or not, maintaining the status quo. And what’s the status quo? The systems of government that are of questionable moral quality and are circular in nature. What I mean by that is:
Murder is wrong for the average Joe, but if you work for the government it’s OK whenever they say it’s OK.
Theft is wrong for the masses, but if you work for the government it’s not only acceptable but necessary for its existence.
Lying is punishable in a court of law, but it’s justified as “national security” and accepted in courts specifically meant to bypass the systems for the citizenry.
Torture is unfathomly wrong, except can somehow be justified as acceptable when used by the government.
Value is undeniably a personal decision yet the government fully believes it can coerce value without consequence.
So what I’d really love to see is a public who looks at their baselines, the behaviors they condone and those they find are unacceptable, and vote for representation who will keep their baselines in mind when legislating. Exceptions exist, of course, but exceptions should never be the status quo.
"Lying is punishable in a court of law" sure, in theory,but almost never really happens.
I am not fond of the LP party as well
Looks like we need a common sense party.
One can only dream...
Mets, you seem angry. Chill. There is a difference in a Senate hearing and a court trial. There is a difference in a full fbi investigation and a five day limited review. One guy is innocent in a court of law, the other is affirmed by the swamp. Not the same.
I said Menendez should have been challenged in the primaries, he is tarnished. Kavenaugh is likewise blemished and should have never been affirmed. There were plenty of good conservative candidates on the HF list. Of course, none of them love executive branch privilege like the K does. So they held their noses and affirmed. Likewise, over a Republican who mouths the Democrats story, I held my nose and voted Menendez.
And what really pushed me over the edge wad the underage prostitution hate ads. That was a slur going to far. Just ticked me off. That one didn’t even make court and you guys ran with it. Just sick.
JIT: sorry but I am feeling dense today. Where was the force in all that?
You really think the Dems wouldn't have pulled stunts with the other candidates? They were going to blacklist whoever Trump picked. They don't want judges that utilize the constitution. A lot of them would gladly rip it up. Ford's story was bullsh*t and Avanatti and Swetnick was the biggest pile of crap in the whole confirmation process. If you believe cockamamie stories like that then you must believe in Santa Claus and Leprechauns... They made a mockery of actual victims. Now Ford supposedly has a book deal... What's she going to write? She can't even remember half the story... Is she going to leave half the pages blank... LMAO... No surprise there that you voted for a pedophile SD since he was a Democrat. Have fun with that on your conscience. Kind of interesting the guy took free trips from a guy who is now serving a life sentence for sex trafficking. I wonder how much money Chuck E Cheese in NY funneled to jury members to get them to cause a hung jury.... Not saying that's what happened, but some of them obviously thought he was guilty based on the evidence. I guess we'll never know...
No, but I was talking about baselines, starting points.
If any of what I wrote has truth then surely it must be obvious how little thought most people give to what it means when they ask the government to exercise the use of force on their behalf. That’s the one baseline I have in common with the LP, their recognition of the reality of government action.
The other party’s never, ever broach the subject because it sheds an uncomfortable light on most of what they believe.
What I would love to see are requests of government intervention discussed with the reality of what that intervention means, which is essentially the majority using force over the minority to get what they want. Someone is *always* on the short end of the stick, and completely ignoring that has, imo, led to the same thought process in all areas of our society.
Remember Ianimals monkey sphere reference from many moons ago? Kind of like that. If we close our minds to anyone outside of our immediate circle then this is the result: you don’t matter and thus I don’t care if you’re hurt by what the government does.
Mets, you really seem angry. You may pop a gasket tomorrow night.
Show us your evidence of underage prostitutes by Menendez and sex trafficing by Melgen. Love to see it. Especially against Menendez.
Of course, Trump’s sexacades that you voted for is a different story eh?
Jit, https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/how-can-i-charge-someone-with-perjury--2448888.html
Some responses from the website, here are 3. The answer is no one bothers to charge for it.
"It is the DA who brings charges. Once the person commits perjury, you would have to convince the DA that said person lied under oath about something material. Good Luck! Perjury is difficult to prove."
"Many times even the most blatant and obvious incidences of perjury go uncharged. It would have be a serious example of lying under oath or else prosecutors will not bother."
"The DA files criminal charges but it is very rare to see someone charged with perjury."
Mets,
A woman will get away with this every (almost) time. She will be untouchable and yes, will most likely make money off of it. Everything to gain, nothing to lose.
Well, one muppet tried and lost, but only because of an extremely limited mental capacity. Link: https://hellbeasts.com/meri-jane-woods/
Then again, in the case of Ford, she might be right.
Without a full investigation, we will never know. All witnesses were not interviewed. No one has looked at her motives for lying. Did the Dr need money? Attention? Zealot?
It is what it is. Kavenaugh is innocent. Menendez is innocent. So it goes.
SD there is nothing to investigate if your witnesses don't know anything and you can't place where the incident happened and when. Stop with the insanity already... This case if given to police would have never made it to court. The Senators who voted to confirm Kavanaugh did the right thing, because we don't live in a country where rumors should determine anything. You voted for Menendez and there is a hell of a lot more proof that he did something. I wasn't old enough to vote in 1992, but I'm sure you voted for Bill Clinton even though he had women accusing him of misconduct. Stop being a hypocrite.
Absolutely sir. By the same token, not guilty. And if you look into the allegations; you got a recant and other facts pushing back against the allegations. But the biggest one is the one you note; the prosecutor did not press charges. Why? Because there was no case.
Mets; that’s your opinion and you are using Kavanaugh to prove me a hypocrite for voting for Menendez. Point is, if that’s the case, you have the same hypocrisy for supporting Kavenaugh. They are both innocent, according to our laws.
And therefore I find your ads flaunting underage prostitutional sex totally repulsive. Repulsive enough to vote Menendez when I could have not. The fact you put a guy who at least parrots the Democrats was, for me, notwithstanding given those tawdry ads.
Now you can continue calling me names over that, but beyond venting your spleen, not sure how that advances your cause.
Dude you were on here blasting Roy Moore as well and at least the voters chose not to vote for him, but here in NJ if you're a Democrat it doesn't seem to matter... You've said women should be believed but apparently that's not the case when it's a Democrat. You sir are indeed a hypocrite.
"And therefore I find your ads flaunting underage prostitutional sex totally repulsive. Repulsive enough to vote Menendez when I could have not."
As repulsive (and uncorroborated) as claims of sexual assault and gang rape in regards to Kavanaugh? Perhaps we should call for another FBI investigation of Menendez... you know, just to be sure he wasn't standing near the punch bowl.
Wait: Russia! It was Russia!
Or maybe just the same set of facts (aka speculation) that have been used to blame Russia for the clog in my kitchen sink!
Yeah, so I blasted Roy Moore, demanded a full investigation for Kavanaugh and when it was over, said "so it goes," and voted for the innocent, yet very tarnished Menendez whom I said I wouldn't have if either a Dem in the primary or you put up someone decent. No matter what comes out of your guy's mouth, once that hate ad ran, the jig was up. Lesser of evils. Sorry, you support Trump, our groper in chief, our whoremaster general; you have no grounds to be throwing stones.
"As repulsive (and uncorroborated) as claims of sexual assault and gang rape in regards to Kavanaugh? Perhaps we should call for another FBI investigation of Menendez... you know, just to be sure he wasn't standing near the punch bowl."
So what's the point in that Mark -- it's OK as long as I find an example elsewhere to rationalize your hatred? Stay on point....
But to just say: Ford's claims should have been fully investigated, not in a courtroom, but in the Senate. K-man is in, it is over, he has been affirmed innocent. Your ramrodding it through the Senate really just says that you condone this crap as long as it happened a long, long, time ago and they were kids. Not even worth a full investigation. Hopefully your daughters will never be groped. But that has absolutely nothing to do with Menendez where the sex charges were so weak that they couldn't bring a case to court, and, in the court case, they could find no quid pro quo and so --- innocent after trying your darnedest to prove him guilty. Bad Menendez optics -- you betcha, especially in this climate. So put a decent guy up against him and quit the lying, cheating, repulsive hate ads ---- if you want my vote. And saying xyz was worse won't cut it with me.
Oh yeah, the other charges on Kav beyond Ford were extended and probably did not help Ford's case at all, probably hurt, bad optics again, if not totally ridiculous. Full investigation there too, and hurt those lawyers who bring trash to court.
No hatred, just pointing out how your excuses for Menendez are basically the exact same thing if you substitute in the word Kavanaugh.
I.e alleged, uncorroborated, not proven, therefore they got your (or in Kav’s case, the Senates’s) vote.
I'd love to hear what your version of a full investigation is SD. If you have nothing to investigate then how wasn't it a full investigation? You really think they were going to find anything else out of that swiss cheese story from Ford? Her story was on record. Witnesses were interviewed. Nothing was found to pursue it any further. I sure do hope you don't think Swetnick's story was worth investigating further... she couldn't even keep her story consistent. Another woman may face charges for her accusations. Whereas Menendez wasn't innocent. A hung jury does not make someone innocent. That means some found him guilty and others did not. It wasn't unanimous which is the precedent needed in a trial. That just says the prosecutors didn't do a good enough job convincing all the jurors either way. Had all 12 said "Not Guilty" at the end, then Menendez would have had vindication. I don't know how you can even compare the two cases. It's apples and oranges.
You voted party lines - that’s cool it is what it is - however the Dems gave you a bad candidate. I really feel they should have replaced Menendez. His grandstanding about how all women should be heard are completely hypocritical
One vote for Murray Sabrin down, 1.4 million to go for the win. I'm gonna be busy today, lol.
"No hatred, just pointing out how your excuses" What, that I said both were innocent -- some excuse..:>) And thank you for saying my vote and the Senate's vote were equivalent ---- now I need to shower off, I feel so dirty :>)
"I'd love to hear what your version of a full investigation is SD." https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/10/5/17940738/fbi-investigation-kavanaugh-thorough-limits
https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/04/politics/fbi-investigation-parameters-kavanaugh/index.html
It is what it is, it is what was agreed to. It was a background check, not a criminal investigation. Menendez was a criminal investigation.
I pass on the other two allegations and suggest they go after the lawyers.
"Had all 12 said "Not Guilty" at the end, then Menendez would have had vindication." Uh, 10 out of 12 to acquit.
"I don't know how you can even compare the two cases. It's apples and oranges." Pretty funny since you were the one who started the comparison.
"You voted party lines." No, I voted for Menendez. I voted for Republicans too. And I explained that IF your side hadn't run the sex charges as uncontested fact, I might have voted your way. However, this thread really makes me feel great about my choice. Thank you all.
"I really feel they should have replaced Menendez." I said the same, multiple times, but do I get creds? However, I said it without the lack of looking at his voting record that you presume based on your "hypocritical on women" comment to which I heartily disagree. Unless you are again referring to the unsubstantiated underage prostitution allegation being touted in the ads as gospel.
I just don't know how you can call Menendez on underage prostitution given:
- not enough evidence to bring to trial
- anonymous tipster is the source, not a prostitute, but his pro's denied they were
- the other two women alleging sex recanted during the investigation claiming they were paid (by your side no doubt, you do a lot of payments for hush and tell, don't you, it's seen by your side as Presidential - yeah, we can all play the "you did it worse" card if wanted)
- two military men at the parties said there was no prostitution seen
So besides the fact that the prosecutor couldn't find a case based on an anonymous tipster, that of the four women - two denied and two recanted saying you guys paid them to squeal, and the fact that party witnesses witnessed no prostitutes --- hey, maybe you're on to something. Based on this evidence, I would say Kavanaugh looks pretty damned guilty if that's all you need...….
SO I am confused.....the democrat's pick has aqusations of sexual misconduct.....are you freaking kidding me?
After the MASSIVE hissy fit you guys through over "allegations" on Kavanaugh!!!
HAHAHAHA! The democratic party is literally the laughing stock of America at this point! You guys should be ashamed of yourselves
Woah - the FBI provable cause affidavit above called menendez out for being a pedofile (visiting underaged prostitutes? Little spin)
The anonymous tip - was later identified the FBI conducted Interviews - the 302s for the minors names were redacted.
Nobody recanted either - those were the daily caller prostitutes. You’re just blatantly making stuff up at this point.
“In 2015, the Obama Justice Department said it had specific, corroborated allegations of Menendez engaging with sex acts with minors and that they “were not so easily disprovable.” In fact, the FBI detailed additional allegations that showed Melgen’s ties to women, even his own pilot described as “young girls” who “looked like escorts.” The FBI was able to verify young women with financial ties to Melgen as being in Casa de Campo at the same time as Menendez.”
Come on Skippy, why then no charges. What’s the magic.
The FBI saw smoke.
The FBI investigated.
The FBI dropped it.
There were no charges.
Four Pinnochios Skippy. WAPO.
Really, google it.
You got the senate, we got the house, trump’s life has changed. 59 squashed subpoenas by Nunes will be reopened as Nunes benched. Its Muller time.
Chances are: Pelosi is back.
You make it sound great. It wasn't great before and the same now. This two lame party system really blows...
Yes, but it blows less today IMO. Here comes Nancy, and she’s a bit upset.....and she knows what to do....
No charges? It's apparently a known fact he paid (what we would consider) underage prostitutes, in a country where it is apparently legal, so I am not quite sure what charges that would incur, other then just plain having MORAL!
BUT.....that's apparently okay with you guys, the democrats have made it very clear that their moral compass stops at the "law", and that compass absolutely cannot get in the way of getting their candidate in office.... So it's okay that your candidate had sex with children, but its oh so bad that someone allegedly held a girl down, and drinks beer.....riiiiiiighhhht......
Biggest bunch of hypocrites I have ever seen....keep telling yourself that Trump is a groper "because he admitted to it" and strutting around like you are right.....your making a fool out of yourself and are apparently proud of it!
All I can do is laugh at this point
I am sure you have a Source please. Good luck.
Check media bias and fact metrics before. Just saying.
“The FBI Affidavit states: “During the course of this investigation, the FBI has confirmed many of the details Mr. Williams and the have provided.” Affidavit page 7, Paragraph 16. “
http://www.themenendezfiles.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/FBIAffidavit.pdf
“The Brief states, “Presented with specific, corroborated allegations that Defendants Menendez and Melgen had sex with underage prostitutes in the Dominican Republic, the Government, responsibly and dutifully investigated those allegations.” Brief at page 4.”
http://www.themenendezfiles.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Document83.pdf
“Corroborated details include that Menendez was in the DR in February and May of 2009, May of 2010 and December of 2011 matching the allegations of one of the underage girls. Affidavit page 7, paragraph 17.”
“The FBI also corroborated the statements about attendees at the parties. The FBI interviewed YF, a young Dominican woman who admitted she was a “girlfriend” of Melgen and attended a number of parties at his house with other young women and officials from the Dominican Government. She also met Menendez at Melgen’s house twice. Affidavit pages 7-8, paragraph 20.”
As we discussed the other day - he was accused, the FBI found probable cause - it was not prosecuted. This is Obama’s justice department as well - so it can’t be blamed on Trump.
We can go back to being proud to say we live in the "GARBAGE" State once again. It's been many, many years. Congratulations SD on your guy winning.
Sorry SD I posted on the wrong thread, it should have been on the Election Day thread. Now that we have two Trump bashing threads shouldn't one be shut down? This NK issue old news.
Both parties are bought and sold by special interest groups. Our representatives represent the special interest groups first and us a far second...
Again Skippy,
The FBI smelled smoke.
The FBI investigated.
The FBI dropped it.
There were no charges because there was no case.
Obama’s/Trump’s DOJ does not matter. There was no case.
Try WAPO fact checker to see where you went off the rails.
Bad smell on the free trips sure; quid pro quo no, underage prostitutes — scurlous lies by partisan hacks. Be like me re-litigating Kav over and over and over.
Both deemed innocent, one by Congress, the other on court. Move on please.
Strange that same FBI investigation that found nothing for kavanaugh was not good enough for you.....they found nothing, yet you still felt he was guilty...of holding a woman down....nothing more, oh yeah...drink beer too
Your candidate has sex with children in a another country and you see nothing wrong
You are a huge hypocrite with a moral compass that stops at your political affiliation, you have proved it hands down yourself.
Prepare yourselves, with the CA shooting last night the news cycle will be the same old predictable constitution-attacking diatribe.... a state with the most restrictive gun laws in the nation.... I know it's an old saw, but: gun control doesn't work.
Today's funnies:
Trump gave what he's been getting for 2 years: Jim Acosta suspended from White House pressers.
“The FBI dropped it” - incorrect - DOj prosecutors rolled it up into the bigger corruption / bribery case which he walked on with a hung jury - shockingly enough in Newark. He was never charged separately.
Here’s a time line
https://www.northjersey.com/story/news/new-jersey/2017/08/31/bob-menendez-trial-timeline-events-leading-up-corruption-trial/620176001/
I didn’t go off the rails - everything I posted above happened - they’re quotes from the FBI Court documents for Gods sake. I don’t need wapo to relieve my cognitive dissonance that I just elected a kid toucher / exploiter. Awesome Job. Tell me more about how all women need to be believed and have a voice.
"I don’t need wapo to relieve my cognitive dissonance"
Cognitive dissonance, confirmation bias....
Critical thinking: the OTHER national deficit.
"DOj prosecutors rolled it up into the bigger corruption / bribery case which he walked on with a hung jury - shockingly enough in Newark."
Not that I want to spend time defending Menendez - I don't - but what is this "rolled up" thing? Was he charged with sex violations or not? I believe not.
And so what if the trial was in Newark? It's a federal trial, for which the jury pool comes from all of North jersey, correct?
They didn’t charge him with it - it was mentioned in his other trial. I’m not sure how they pull federal jurors.
The point being it’s its a blue state with federal judges and prosecutors appointed by a democrat.
I don’t think what he did was illegal in the DR
Wow, you guys can’t let go, like junkyard dogs sinking your teeth into the ankle of the truth. With Darrin ratcheting up his typical name calling personal attack daring to judge my moral compass. This from a guy with a huge stockpile of guns and a proudly displayed Confederate flag. Him judging me. JR just jumps on board because……his “open minded” un-Republicrat mindset demands he leaps without looking…..
Dispatching Darrin: “Strange that same FBI investigation that found nothing for Kavanaugh” is a bald-faced lie you refuse to source. Repeatedly. You know the truth and look elsewise. Darrin, Menendez had a full FBI unbounded, unabridged, criminal investigation that lasted about FIVE YEARS. Kavanaugh did not have an FBI criminal investigation: he had a ONE WEEK background check with many LIMITATIONS on inquiry placed by Trump’s Whitehouse who wanted a man who was their man to protect the President --- not the Constitution. I think that’s different, don’t you?
As I said, both deemed innocent, one in a court of law, another by partisan Senators.
On the rest of your name calling rant, you can apologize at any time.
It's not all Skippy: Amazingly, I can not find an indictment stating “underage, prostitution or sex in your posted source.” As if it wasn’t there and it’s your post, you must have known it. So I went to the indictment and ---- it’s not there either: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/1699736-menendez-indictment.html
What do you call it when the facts are right in your face and you choose instead to believe a narrative put forth, unsubstantiated, by partisan hacks. Hook, line, and sinker. What do you call it when you believe a lie that even your sources confirm as a lie? When you refuse even to look at a source that might change your mind? And Darrin name calls me over it, amazing. JR just jumps on for the ride…his curious open-mind nailed firmly shut and bent hard to the alt right..
“There’s still no evidence Robert Menendez slept with underage prostitutes. A new attack ad says it anyway. “
“Among other charges, Menendez was accused of securing U.S. visas for Melgen’s foreign girlfriends.” There you have your indictment.
“Ultimately, however, the allegations that Menendez slept with sex workers, underage or otherwise, did not make the cut and were not part of the indictment or trial.” Hello, McFly, anybody in there…..
“To accuse a rival candidate of maybe sleeping with underage prostitutes, solid evidence is an absolute must. The evidence for Hugin’s ad fails the test. There’s nothing new in the ad except for a dark descent into corrosive haze.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2018/10/17/theres-still-no-evidence-bob-menendez-slept-with-underage-prostitutes-new-attack-ad-says-it-anyway/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.3602efe832f7
Keep polishing that turd boys, polish away.
"The point being it’s its a blue state with federal judges and prosecutors appointed by a democrat."
Whether blue or red, appointed by the president, right?
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/sarah-sanders-accused-of-circulating-doctored-video-of-jim-acostas-interaction-with-white-house-intern
Give me a break... her arm moves at the same speed as his and they say it's doctored... Acosta clearly made contact. He deserved what he got. Guy is a troll....
LMFAO!!!! There it is @SD "This from a guy with a huge stockpile of guns and a proudly displayed Confederate flag"
So two things, well actually thee....your tell tail single judgement statement about me that you just love to throw out there when you have nothing else to say....like it's suppose to be some sort of insult to me HA!
So with that being said..."huge stockpile"? you have no idea how many guns, or gun....I own...so we all know what they say about assuming.......but ass away, it looks good on you
Secondly, you love claiming I display a confederate flag....where do I display this flag? I have zero issues with the confederate flag as I have stated here many times, but the picture you try to paint of me when you have nothing else to say and want to apparently try to take a low ball is just a assumption, borderline lie, and plain hilarious to watch you continually stoop to these levels......but carry away
Name calling rant? Ummm...right.....i said your a hypocrite because what you are doing is very hypocritical....everyone here knows it....so essentially it is not "name calling" but instead describing an action...a action that you brought onto yourself....one which you openly showed the forum and now are too embarrassed to talk about, so instead you start crying name callers and slinging mud at everyone else....typical SD.....typical liberal.......
“It's not all Skippy: Amazingly, I can not find an indictment stating “underage, prostitution or sex in your posted source.”
Um.. I’ve said at least 3 times he was not indicted for that . What I said was the FBI issued forth a probable cause document that indicated there was probable cause to believe it happened. So not sure why your posting the indictment - I don’t dispute that.
So... either you didn’t look at the documents I posted or most likely don’t care - but don’t look to me to resolve your cognitive dissonance surrounding the hypocrisy of the left.
Think about what your are saying. There was an actual criminal investigation done - 302s and everything and the affidavit was delivered to the DOJ prosecutors and the Court - this affidavit indicated Menendez not only visited prostitutes and violated the public trust by accepting these visits - but some were underage.
Forget the underage thing for a minute - menendez went to the DR with his buddy and visited prostitutes... you cool with that? Don’t feel that’s exploitation of women? Do you think the scouts run that operation? These are exploited women here... hello?
Where does it say he visited prostitutes? I didn’t see anything beyond allegations from shaky sources and the fact they were in the same locale at the same time.
And you keep acting like we differ when I say:
The FBI smelled smoke
The FBI investigated
The FBI found no case
The FBI droped it
Thinj we said the same thing except you harken probable cause leading no where to mean guilty. Nice.
Now you drop the underage; how can you do that? This whole discussion was predicated your side running a Willy Horton like ad re Menendez/underage prostitutes hacking me off enough to vote Menendez into office.
Now you want to move the marker away from that and talk about something else? And you want to discuss my feelings about prostitution and explotation of women ? Move on. He’s innocent, no prostitution in the indictment, no underage prostitutes anywhere, your guy lied, your guy lost, move on.
Darrin; I think thou protest too much and we know you can’t back it up by admitting your arsenal size and flag preferences. That’s Ok, and continue on with the name calling since you rationalize it so so well. Not. I loved the “crying” part; tasteful. If you post any facts for discussion; I’m your daisy, otherwise bugger off please.
"Wow, you guys can’t let go,"
LOL. Tell that to the Broward County elections board... violating court orders, not allowing video to be taken, lawsuits filed.....
You are ignoring the point SD....has nothing to do with the FBI and everything to do with you and the other liberals. Sure the FBI dropped both cases, but you and the other liberals hang on to Kavanaugh regardless where or just letting the other one go.....aka...... hypocritical .
And let me get this straight, your defense to making assumptions that essentially slander someone is that I have should have to prove otherwise? What type of world do you live in where that’s okay?
So tRUMP states yesterday that he’s never spoken to Matt Whitaker.
Then , in a clip of a tRUMP call in Faux News, he states that he called him, has spoken to him and thinks he’d do a great job.
So which is it?
A)-tRUMP is a lying sack of dung
B)- Alzheimer’s
C)-tRUMP cannot keep track of his lies
D)-brain freeze
E)- both A and C
DING DING DING
correct answer is (E)
Both A and C.
And as an aside- seems Mueller has hard evidence that el Chito had a DIRECT HAND in paying hush money to his “ consorts”.
Walls beginning to close in on the Coward in Chief?
And don’t think for a minute that International Leaders don’t realize that our Coward’s strength is ebbing and ebbing.
KARMA Is a “Bee-ach
“You are ignoring the point SD....has nothing to do with the FBI and everything to do with you and the other liberals…..you and the other liberals hang on to Kavanaugh regardless where or just letting the other one go.....aka......
hypocritical .”
Great, cuz I thought you might be getting personal or castigating a whole class of people in a broad mass untrue generalization. As I said: “If you post any facts for discussion; I’m your daisy, otherwise bugger off please.” You chose to offer no facts to support your newest claim, fyi. So, nice opinion, but wrong in my case. Some facts:
And I previously said, as I said, numerous times, in response to Skippy initially bringing up Kavanaugh to make some arcane point about Menendez::
“As I said, both deemed innocent, one in a court of law, another by partisan Senators. On the rest of your name calling rant, you can apologize at any time.” Seems I am trying to move on… ".just when I thought I was out, they pulled me back in." "Forget about it Stranger, it's Hackettstown...…"
And
“Both deemed innocent, one by Congress, the other on court. Move on please.” Think I pretty much said it. Multiple times. But wait, there's more. Want to see some more? Or do you just want to “hang on to Kavanaugh regardless where or just letting the other one go.” What do you call your recent actions? And then you once again lump all liberals together, sweet, but obviously not true in this case. At least for me.
Meanwhile…. ”your defense to making assumptions that essentially slander someone is that I have should have to prove otherwise?” You got me. Because I just can’t figure out what you are trying to say this time to rationalize name calling again. You name called, you rationalized it, I know you can’t divulge your armory or favorite banners (that was a joke. I really don’t want to know about your vast arms stockpile. And I don’t even know if you have the flag in your house anymore.) I suggested and still suggest we discuss issues using facts instead of name calling. I am really getting bored with the personal stuff for other HLers. Including my liberal-in-kind, Mr. Stymie.
Can we finally move on now? Seems to me we are on the precipice of a Constitutional crisis where your Electoral King has anointed his new Knight of Justice without checking in with the round table for confirmation. Doesn’t help that said Knight is inferior to everyone he manages, said Knight is being investigated by the police arm of the roundtable that he also manages for dastardly deeds, and said Knight has already made himself judge, jury and executioner to the sole Knight standing in defiance to the King BEFORE he even saw the facts.
The "I love you, Man," played against "I see nothing, I know nothing, I don't know this man" concluding in "this is the bestest man I have ever known that I do not know." moments are priceless. Gonna be some great mash-ups and SNL moments on this one.
How many more lies and Constitutional insults will you accept before standing up to your King?
I am Spartacus.
"I am Spartacus."
THAT EXPLAINS EVERYTHING. You're Corey Booker. We should have had it pegged earlier, but you were too sly for us. But we got you now!! When are you announcing your presidential run for 2020?
Darrin-please enlightenment the entire board.
What is a TYPICAL liberal?
What is a TYPICAL conservative?
And now the tricky part.
Which one are YOU?
And Skippy.
I’ll bet you than God each and every night for the Clintons.
Without them you’d have to go back decades for a foil to deflect and excuse the White House’s current crime family occupants.
SD I have no problem moving on as long as you actually move along with the fact that Kavanaugh was proven innocent, because up until now your posts said otherwise.
Styme, here is a site for you to find any definitions you may be looking for, feel free to enlighten yourself....
www.google.com
Figures Darrin.
Emptiest vessel always makes the most noise.
All hat and no cattle, huh?
Constitutional Crises, I see you're listening to Chuck Schumer and received the daily Democratic talking points memo.
Really? You don’t see any issue with the President hiring a man with a less than steller legal career, not that it isn’t very good, just not stellar, to be the top cop, top legal eagle and a top Constitutional lawyer in all of America. Like if youlisyef the top 12, he wouldn't be on the list?
A guy who has stated the variety of ways he would close down Mueller based on what you and I know, nothing more who says he is not prejudicial and does not require recusal. All this before he even weighed the evidence.
A guy not yet given Congressional approval will decide our nation’s judicial fate when there is a list of folks who have Congressional consents for their current DoJ or Government appointments.
A guy under criminal FBI investigation; an FBI he currently manages.
Only Nixon dared come close to this, but Nixon didn’t even come close to this, and after the Saturday Night Massacre, Patriotic Republicans rose up and shut him down.
Do you really think this is legit; it certainly ain’t normal to basically hire the top cop who says he will close down the investigation into you without Congressional hearings so that our DOJ is currently opetating without the Constitutionally mandated advise and consent.
Like I said, last time was Nixon and he didn’t even come close to this blantant attempt at obstruction of justice.
Really, Nixon ordered AG Elliot Richardson to fire Special Prosecutor Archibald Cox. He refused and resigned. He then ordered Deputy AG William Ruckelshaus to fire Archibald. He also refused and resigned. Did Trump order Sessions to fire Mueller? I agree he shouldn't have made this guy acting AG but to say this doesn't even come close to what Nixon did is laughable to say the least.
Laughable? If you are there, so be it. I do not think the Founding Fathers would be in your rowboat pulling on the oars in that same direction.
Nixon, in the Saturday Night Massacre, operated within the Constitution. All his provisional appointees replacing the fired had been Congressionally appointed for high ranking DoJ positions. Whitaker has not, never has been. He is unconstitutionally appointed. Yes, Nixon fired Cox, and yes it was a quid pro quo for a Bork SCOTUS seat, but the quid pro quo part was not revealed until Bork’s death. Wonder what the quid pro quo here is: oh yeah, becoming AG….. Beats being a talking head on cable.
The Saturday Night Massacre was the turning point for the Watergate investigation as the public and Patriotic Republicans rose up and said “enough.” Impeachment proceedings began. Where are those brave folks now? Has even one HLer Trump voter changed their mind about Trump support yet? This time, sure, Trump has not fired the Special Prosecutor yet. He has fired the head of the FBI because of the Russian Investigation, according to his own words. He has unconstitutional hired a guy on record stating he would destroy Mueller.
Now he has installed a Attorney General, within minutes of firing the recused Sessions, outside of Congressional approval which is outside of the Constitution. You can’t have our top cop be unsanctioned by Congress, that’s unconstitutional.
Article II, Clause 2: “He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the supreme Court, and all other Officers of the United States, whose Appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by Law: but the Congress may by Law vest the Appointment of such inferior Officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in the Courts of Law, or in the Heads of Departments.”
This unconstitutional appointment was a bridge too far even for Nixon.
The fact that his unconstitutional appointee is an inferior lawyer (to many other choices in DoJ and elsewhere), a vacuous cable talking head with a known agenda, notwithstanding, the fact that he has specifically stated how he would end the Mueller investigation, using multiple approaches, should give any patriot pause to consider. Especially since he is already operating outside the Constitution with a clear intent to obstruct justice by destroying, not concluding, a Constitutionally-mandated Special Investigation, an obstruction that started with the Comey firing.
Not laughable in my book. My question is how much more will you allow before realizing this is not our Republic as envisioned by the Founding Father’s Constitution.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/undocumented-immigrant-released-from-jail-charged-in-triple-murder
NJ is such a sh*t hole... Now 3 people are dead because of the BS policies guys like Murphy have in place. Good job to people who vote for these idiot Democrats that make sanctuary policies....
Mets; this ain’t NJ; this is Middlesex County in NJ. Every other NJ county would have complied in rhe detainer, according to ICE.
Sanctuary issues stink of politicking and plenty of blame, shame and obfuscation all around. For example, why didn’t FOX report on the ICE statement that Middlesex is the only NJ county that does this with ICE detainers and that all other NJ countiea would have complied.
I would guess Middlesex will follow other NJ counties in the wake of this and the summer round up which spotlighted their issues multiple times over.
Not sure what other sanctuary elements NJ has; I am sure there are some.
SD it's coming for the rest of the state. Who are you kidding... Murphy stated he'd make the whole state a sanctuary.
Metsman - Did you read the part of the article that said ICE bungled the paperwork? The county said they were perfectly willing to turn him over but they needed the authorization forms filled out. ICE never replied. When the county replies at all that's certainly no sanctuary. He was let go because of ICE ineptitude, that's all.
"Murphy stated he'd make the whole state a sanctuary." That should keep my landscaping and produce bill down a bit. Wan't to update my kitchen, maybe I can get some help.
Now if I only knew some that could make me an Iphone, that would be awesome. Then I would not have to pay a 600% markup. Although I have profited from child labor when I bought Apple stock. It's for the children I guess...
GC, I don't see anything in that article about bungling paperwork. The issue is that normally counties honor the detainer request, but this county, as of last year, will only honor the detainer requests if there is an order of Deportation. ICE never gave them that order, so they didn't honor the detainer request. Other counties would have still honored it without the order of deportation. The article has the quote in the wrong place, but here it is in the correct order:
"In an email to the Associated Press, Middlesex County officials said the detainer wasn't honored because it didn’t meet the necessary criteria.
The county said it adopted a policy last year of honoring detainer requests from ICE if the inmate has convictions for first- or second-degree offenses or is ordered deported by a federal judge.
During Perez’s stint in jail, ICE never requested an order of deportation against Perez, county officials wrote.
“This order would have authorized Middlesex County to turn over custody of Mr. Perez prior to, or upon completion of his sentence,” they wrote. “Instead ICE officials chose to do nothing, which places all responsibility of Mr. Perez’s actions squarely upon ICE.”
Rich They're pointing fingers at each other. Point is this crap needs to stop. If ICE wants to deport an illegal then hand the damn guy over when its time. Not that deporting does much anyway cuz these people come back several times in some instances. Our border is a joke...
Rich - It's still bungled paperwork. The only thing a detainer does is delay the release by 48 hrs. The guy was in jail for way longer than that - there's no difference.
They still need a warrant of arrest or a deportation order, whether immediately or after 48 hrs. All the specific forms are listed on the Middlesex web page. The detainer just gives time to get those orders. ICE never made a move to comply and get any of those required pieces of paperwork. Even after being let go they could have filed to arrest him. They never did. That makes it "paperwork".
Sanctuary Cities, Sanctuary States, what does it all mean. It’s clever branding to make folks deadly scared of illegal aliens most who have Latino heritage. By extension, our fear transfers to all Hispanics. For example, many confer from this that all Latino’s on Main Street are illegal and bad.
Mets, I provide the following, not in judgement, but as consideration points to your thought process. You said: “NJ is such a sh*t hole... Now 3 people are dead because of the BS policies guys like Murphy have in place. Good job to people who vote for these idiot Democrats that make sanctuary policies....”
First, what do you define by “sanctuary polices? I, myself, don’t have a clue. I have read about the issues of Sanctuary Cities which seems to be more about budgets, neighborhood vs. federal policing, state’s rights and control than it is about creating an inviting environment for illegals. But I really don’t understand what is meant by sanctuary state. This would be a great discussion for HL, even for a new thread.
What is a Sanctuary City, where are they? Are there really sanctuary states?
Are all Sanctuaries structured the same way or are there differences?
On to the case at point and Mets comments on Murphy, democrats, and life in NJ.
Second, you do realize this happened based on a 2017 illegal alien release and that Murphy took office in 2018 and that, as of Sept 2018, not one immigration sanctuary law change has taken place in NJ. So your statement on BS turns out to be…..well.. It was under Christie that this offense took place.
How unsafe are sanctuary states? Do illegals cluster in Sanctuary Cities and States. This guy fled Sanctuary State NJ to Red State Missouri which has a specific law against Sanctuary Cities. Why did he flee sanctuary to go to anti-sanctuary? What was the issue drawing this killer to Missouri? You also had a number of NJ Republicans in the Congress, that you control, so who's on first?
GC et al: clearly Middlesex handles ICE requests differently that every other NJ county. No matter who’s at paperwork fault, no other NJ county would have stiffed ICE like this. I would gather after this tragedy, that will change. For ICE, it’s virtually impossible for ICE to comply to the Middlesex request by putting forth a deportation order before being in front of a judge. It's a Middlesex Catch 22. Paperwork, status communication, process determination, whatever, seems to be an issue both ways. Why couldn’t Middlesex inform ICE as to the status? ICE would have been there to pick the guy up if they knew the release date. Why didn’t ICE find the release date themselves? ICE knew how Middlesex operated, why didn’t they compensate? ICE busted all sorts of Middlesex releases of offenders during the summer; they didn't understand the Middlesex process after that? Couldn’t be budget, ICE’s budget has grown dramatically under Trump. Trump even stole $10M from FEMA to add to ICE. PR thanks Trump for that….. I am guessing there is much politicking in the assignment of blame here, but the bottom line independent of that is that no other NJ county would have been in this situation; they would have complied with the ICE order.
Finally, do you know how many Republicans I can find that have shot this many people? Each year. Every state? Until you have statistics METS, anecdotes do not a trend make. My anecdotes say illegals are safer than rednecks, what do the statistics say?
Again, points to consider and I would love to learn about what Sanctuary Cities mean and what the real issues are.
Don’t believe I blamed Murphy for this situation, but I do blame him if more municipalities and eventually the state follow the lead of Middlesex county… He campaigned with the promise of making this a sanctuary state. This is only his first year in office.
Oh yea let’s ignore the deaths inflicted by illegals because we have citizens who kill as well… brilliant argument SD. I’m sure the families of these 3 slain people, Mollie Tibbets, Kate Steinle, and the many others affected will sleep easier knowing rednecks and hoodrats kill more people than illegals…
"Don’t believe I blamed Murphy for this situation," "Now 3 people are dead because of the BS policies guys like Murphy have in place. Good job to people who vote for these idiot Democrats that make sanctuary policies....” Gee, sure seems like you blamed Murphy's "BS policies," both of which are not true. You also blamed anyone who voted for him, I believe name calling them "idiots." But hey, maybe I am just being thin-skinned. Or you are Trump's doppelganger :>)
"Oh yea let’s ignore the deaths inflicted by illegals because we have citizens who kill as well… brilliant argument SD" Did I say "ignore," well did I..... Of course not, and since I know you are a follower, how many times have I said I feel for the tragic loss of these families? Plenty. What I did say was "Until you have statistics METS, anecdotes do not a trend make. My anecdotes say illegals are safer than rednecks, what do the statistics say?"
So, since you seem unable to find the truth, let's go to the tape: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/06/19/two-charts-demolish-the-notion-that-immigrants-here-illegally-commit-more-crime/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.93f0a63433ad The charts are pretty revealing.
Sure, you can blame WAPO, those liberals, however, the CATO Institute rates right of right center on the ole media bias chart with highly factual reporting.
The truth can set you free, if you let it in.
Look forward to having a real, factual, discussion on Sanctuary Cities, reasons, pro's n con's, and such whenever you are ready to move beyond, albeit very tragic, anecdotes that seldom make a factual trend.
"The truth can set you free, if you let it in."
No truth was ever discovered by endless yammering.
Facts aren't going to make Metsman less racist SD. He loves to use the, "Just because it's not a widespread issue doesn't mean we shouldn't address it" logic when it suits him. Then, when minorities are the victims, he uses the argument of, "It's not even a widespread issue, it's just sensationalized" as shown in this screenshot.
Reasonable there’s a big difference between illegals killing people in cold blood and a police officer shooting someone who poses a threat. Police also do make mistakes and end up being punished for it. There’s no such thing as a perfect police force. But what’s stupid is government agencies not cooperating and getting rid of a foreign violent felon. Keep your name calling to yourself. I’m not racist.
Read host posts.
A frightened little “ man”.
Afraid of his own shadow.
But “ brave” enough to send profanity laced emails direct to your mailbox.
A perfect example of what is wrong with the current electorate.
JIT yea right... typical liberal response. If they don't like what you say you're a racist or bigot....
Yeah I don't like what you say because what you say is racist. You constantly make broad generalizations about minorities and attempt to portray them in a negative light, as shown here in the latest collection of Metsman quotes.
My personal favorite (at least the funniest one) is the one here where you try to assert that there's some correlation between people who ride bikes and do laundry, to their immigration status.
To get ahead of the whole "What about context?" argument, racist comments are racist comments, regardless of context.
How can you be racist and name yourself after the Mets? I mean talk about minority love.....
Still, better to point out the actions and words that make him act and sound like a racist than to name call him as a racist. I still have hope he can see the light that words do matter, and beyond the laments of yammering, free speech does not equate to hate speak or mean speak.
I know pot-kettle, I did it first, I did it worst, yeah yeah, yammer, clamor, and stammer on. Some people like free speech, just not too much of it :>)
LMAO you're too much.... You're a classic example of a person in today's culture that yells out RACIST every time a truth is stated. Yes a higher percentage of black people kill each other than other races. That's a known fact. Yes I would feed my children before illegal children. Yes we have illegals in town who ride bikes. That does not make me or anyone else racist who points it out. I don't spew hatred towards these people. If I had a magic wand that could cure all ills I would wave it. You're an extremely narrow minded individual....
Well, to be fair (in regards to the first few quotes you posted about Black/African American crime rates) FBI data backs that up.
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/topic-pages/tables/table-21
African Americans constitute ~13% of the US population but are arrested for 27% of crime overall and greater than 50% for murder and robbery. As a race, they are (sometimes vastly) over-represented for what one would statistically predict in all crime categories except those that are alcohol related.
President Trump skips Veterans Day. Claims rain affects bone spurs.
Trump lays down the Nazi card to Marcon because Marcon does not want to pay for Us protection; instead wants to roll his own; Trump retaliates and threatens to tarriff French Wine in revenge move since Trump doesn’t drink being naturally drunk.
Kelly on outs with Melanoma; both believe they’re best at being in Karloff horror film.
DHS Kiersten is on outs with Trump. Just not bitter enough.
Trump says he will close down government unless he gets his wall.
Think we will get our 10% middle class tax break? Somehow I think it got swept to sea in the Blue Wave.
Weeeee; having fun yet?
No worries SD, HRC has apparently decided to run again in 2020. Not sure what Biden, Bernie, and Beto will have to say about that, but she'll save us all.
Reasonable- thank you for confirming Muttsman’s racism and bigotry to those new to these parts.
Several questions:
During his “ executive time” does the Coward in Chief pee in his diaper or hold his breath until he passes out like the petulant infant he’s revealed to be?
Darrin- where’s your next 10% tax cut?
Does that come after the infrastructure plan or the “ new, better and cheaper” health plan.
What happened to the invading “Caravan”?
You know, the one bringing Smallpox and Lepers to invade us?
El Presidente’is crumbling under the pressure-laughing stock of the western world and roiled by the electorate.
Let me hide a Mar-a-Blotto while I send those that serve to our boarder to film “Wag the Dog II”?
Prediction—in ten years you will not be able to find one person that will admit to voting for this LOSER.
You should be ashamed of yourselves.
They say a dog is man’s best friend – but Donald Trump could become the first US President for nearly 130 years not to have a canine companion in the White House. He’s just not good with living things. I saw a great bumper sticker: “ MAKE THE BAD MAN GO AWAY” I laughed and cried at the same time! Funny...yet true and scary. Trump’s regard for our veterans is disturbing. That $716 billion for the military is to build more bombs and ships (like we really need more), not to build veterans hospitals or housing (unless he made a deal, like his dad...using government funds to build and profit from public housing) . What the hell is Trump doing? Why does he insist on alienating us from our allies and making USA the laughing stock of the world? If he were in Russia, for their version of Veterans Day, he would’ve been out in the rain...walking arm in arm with Putin.
CNN is suing Donald J.Trump, along with a few of his cronies, for violating the 1st amendment. I watched the press conference go down. Fox reporters, with their pre-approved questions, had very little trouble getting a polite answer. CNN reporter? “Shut up, sit down, no...not you, you’re a racist (almost blew the funny fuse, on that one, coming from Trump), pivots, lies or ignores them, yells profanities at them. The reporter DID NOT call Trump a racist. It was the other way around, because the reporter wanted Trump’s opinion on the word “nationalism”.
I’ve never seen, or heard of, a USA president that behaves as bad as Trump. Cmon...who wouldn’t own a White House pet...not even a goldfish on his desk? He, along with his family, only like large, wild animals...dead, of course.
Like I said some time ago, we are in end game, those dark days when the future is obvious but not accepted.
Had a friend doing electrical at the White House during the Carter and Nixon years; he said at the end if Carter was coming, they’d jump into a closet —he was heads down, isolated, and brusque, Nixon was always open and friendly. Think we are more in the Carter mode here with everyone ducking for cover.
Strange days ahead for sure and stranger yet post January when impeachment picks up steam.
Outside the box didn’t pan out well for the Tea Party who is actually inside the box as elitists now and OTB is not working well for this Presidency either. Look for more economic distortions as markets react to his crap as well. Protect youself; pick up some fixed assets.
"You should be ashamed of yourselves."
LOL nothing like a little self-identification to start your day, Stymie.
I thought one of Stymie’s more insightful tomes. Even throttled back a bit on the namecalling.
Remember JR, if you live in glass houses, don’t throw Stones. Roger that! Stormy weather ahead, Cohen to get snowed, Manafort for protection against the elements.
“To get ahead of the whole "What about context?" argument, racist comments are racist comments, regardless of context.”
Right. Use any race term in any context and of course it’s a racist comment. Because it references race. Duh.
But what you mean to say is that *you* view every comment that references race as being hateful. So I’ll agree about “context” being important but disagree with your assumptions as to the intent of any comment that references race.
Seems to me that you’re taking the eay way out by lumping everyone into a category of your own definition. Doesn’t that way of thinking sound eerily familiar to you???
“You should be ashamed of yourselves.”
As should every single person that took Trump’s lead and gave as good as they got.
What we should be ashamed of is our collective choice to act like children on a playground. Trump certainly doesn’t hide behind being politically correct, but the mob thrashing about with him (and making all sorts of money by continually talking about him btw) and acting in similar ways should take a long, long look in the mirror.
Adults lead by example, and I’d really like to know where the adults are today.
So, are you saying the entire left, by standing up, voicing dissent, are children?
Gee, where were you during the Obama years with this rhetoric?
Why does "open minded" on HL seem to mean "leans right?"
Which phrases are you referring to SD? The FBI uses race-based statistics and those were referred to above-is that what your asking about?
Anyway, would you consider the phrase “old white guy” to be a racist comment? It seems to me that phrase is being used almost exclusively these days to indicate that anyone who is male, white, and old is like Trump -hungry with power and out to get anyone who looks different - and is nothing more than a racist blanket statement itself. Exactly the thing the people who use the phrase say they are against! Talk about hypocrisy!
I bet all those claiming that we are racist just loved what Don Lemon had to say about white guys a week or so back...
"Make the bad man go away" - if that doesn't sound like a child, what does?!
Answers your question pretty simply SD. See, it can be done without a 20,000 word diatribe.
“So, are you saying the entire left, by standing up, voicing dissent, are children?”
The way it’s being gone today? Absolutely! Our Congressional leadership is pitiful the way they act on the national stage. But remember, I’m an equal opportunity commenter and apply this to all Republicrats ;-)
The prevailing method of dissent today is to take any little thing and manipulate it into a reason/justification for or against one’s core beliefs, no matter how petty. And don’t forget to deflect! Can’t debate today without deflection, especially if you can deflect by name calling or by using the “trigger word of the day” to get peoples emotions riled up.
Speaking of which, I was taught (and wholeheartedly agree with) that important decisions should only be made when not in an elevated emotional state, to step away and return to a problem once you’ve calmed down.
Can you honestly tell us that our leadership prefers a calm, rational citizenry over folks that are in a heightened state of emotion? If you disagree I’d ask you to do the big-picture thing you so dislike.
After reading through the last week of posts, I yearn for the rational discussions at AlienCon last weekend, lol...
Mark it's only racist when people who vote for Republicans say something. You didn't get that memo... Reasonable and Stymie are stuck in a bubble...
JYM ---except I did not say "make the bad man go away." Some other "child" said that. Short enuf?
"Which phrases are you referring to SD?" uh....the one's Mets posted that are prominently displayed above and that all the recent racist bruhaha has been about, yours included. I generally refrain from the racist argument; you can't fix stupid. Is "old white men" racist, it depends. Depends on context. After you review the Met's lines, you can judge the difference between demographic statistics that the FBI releases and something more with context. You tell us.
"But remember, I’m an equal opportunity commenter and apply this to all Republicrats ;-)" No you lean right IMO. An "open-minded" person would have said "in many cases" or the like and not "absolutely and then try the ole Republicrat CYA.
"Can you honestly tell us that our leadership prefers a calm, rational citizenry over folks that are in a heightened state of emotion?" I'm sorry. Are you saying No Drama Obama favored "heightened states of emotion?" I would agree that Trump is over-the-top, where's that caravan, hope the kids doing nothing on the front line are having a great Thanksgiving, and Trump has lowered the bar below sea level. I would agree there's a list of folks engaging likewise, on both sides, but I can not, given the status of the MOST POWERFUL man in the world, blame them all the time for their efforts. Just some of the time, and, IMO, the list is pretty short, and longer on the right.
TY for leaving me out Mets. Appreciated.
Thanks for including me Iman. Remember, I still have the wedding pic and now I know how to photoshop :>)
So how about that new AG; least qualified ever. What's next, Eric for Department of Defense?
The three of you bubble people totally twisted my earlier posts out of context, kind of like how people like you said Trump said ALL Mexicans are rapists and murderers when that isn't actually what he said or when he called MS-13 animals and Pelosi said he called immigrants animals. There's really no helping the delusion some of you live in....
Well, so much for the ty; that didn’t take long :-)
I never called Mets a racist. I haven’t even judged your statements as being racist; I have refrained because its a red herring to my interests.
I have asked JIT his opinions as to your statements, figure he’s more objective given his rising above the Republicrat plane. ;-).
Sorry for the comprehension confusion Mets; I am sure it is my bad editing.
Murphy signs Cory’s Law allowing Cory to run for pres w/o giving up senate seat. Score one Spartacus
https://www.foxnews.com/us/dashcam-video-shows-moment-illegal-immigrant-suspect-opens-fire-on-arkansas-police-officer
This is the kind of person who also enters into this country with the women and children people feel sorry for. You really think guys like this go to asylum court appearances... The Dept of Homeland Security has identified people like this within these incoming caravans. Oh but I forgot, we have a lot of scary white people... How dare anyone be concerned that this could happen in our town... People concerned are racists right...
https://www.foxnews.com/us/more-than-650-illegal-immigrants-crossing-southern-border-detained-in-arizona-over-two-days
And this is why we need a wall.... Half a million people in one year! This keeps going on and we'll be a 3rd world country in 50 years...
Yea ok SD... try implementing it with landscapers and such... regular companies like mine already use it.
Make it law; help them out.
Ariz is good example; except some small bus. Like landscappera not included which messes up companies that do comply.
Walls don’t work either.
@SD "Walls don’t work either."
Using this logic...we might as well take down all the speed limit signs, because they don't work either hu?
Ever look up the success (as far as keeping people from crossing, not talking about the reasons it was put up here) of the berlin wall SD?
"In the West, the Berlin Wall was regarded as a major symbol of communist oppression. About 5,000 East Germans managed to escape across the Berlin Wall to the West, but the frequency of successful escapes dwindled as the wall was increasingly fortified."
https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/berlin-wall-built
Darrin, not sure about your speed limit sign equivalence to border walls, but, generally, walls, blockades, and even penalties don’t stop the flow of things. Never have. It was not the Berlin Wall that stopped people, it was the surround. Walls may limit, as did the Berlin Wall, but is that what you want for your money --- just to limit? And at what cost? Let’s look at the Berlin Wall story.
Yes, the Wall reduced the flow to about 5,000. Others put the number “The construction of the Berlin Wall that year reduced the number of escapees by 75% to around 2,300 per annum for the rest of the decade.” But I think the 5,000 is the accepted norm, I just note the reduction, noting the end %%. So, it severely limited but did not stop. In our case, do you really think our wall will match that?
Remember, the Berlin Wall was not a wall, but a cage. They were surrounded. Our wall is not, you can easily go around by sea. You can enter through other borders like Canada. Or you can just go in the 1,200 miles that will not have the wall. Our wall is not a cage. It is not even a wall.
To set the stage, the exodus of 1941-1950 was over 12 million from Eastern Bloc countries. Another 3.5M left as immigrants specifically from East Germany. By 1961, 1,000 people a day were crossing. That's why the wall went up. Everyone was fleeing the USSR. 3.5M from a 19M population much smaller than that today’s South America, Central America, Mexico, and the Caribbean basin and a population reduced by 25% before the wall. In other words, many people escaped before the wall went up. That’s why it went up.
After the Wall was put up, it did indeed reduce the flow to 5,000 through the wall. But the population had already been reduced by about 20%, over 3 million souls were treated as asylum seekers…. Get that Darrin, asylum seekers. At 100 miles, this wall is far shorter than Trump’s possible 2,000-mile version which, since he won’t do it all, will probably be around 1,000 miles or 10x the Berlin Wall.
The Berlin portion comprised of a 27 mile stretch surrounding separating East West Berlin. It is really two walls. Ready for that? The big one was a 12 ft concrete barrier with 302 guard towers, manned by troops with a 160-foot kill zone between the walls. An inner cleared kill zone. 55,000 mines were laid down, over a million along the entire 100-mile wall. 3,000 guard dogs, 10,000 troops manned the Berlin section from 302 guard towers with shoot-to-kill orders.
So are you ready for 3,000 guard towers, 100,000 troops, 30,000 guard dogs, and ½ million mines?
Darrin, are you ready for this implementation across our 2,000-mile border? 6,000 towers, 200,000 troops, and millions and millions of mines? Are you ready for a kill zone and shoot to kill orders? Because the Berlin Wall proved that just having a wall failed, you need much, much, more.
And when it was done, the USSR had constructed its namesake, the iron curtain, and was forever seen as one of the most repressive countries in history. Heck, they needed a wall to keep people in. Are you ready for your new reputation?
My plan calls for removing the reason most come: work. With EZ pass, no illegals will be hired. Game over. Only under-the-counter workers need apply. Asylum seekers can me treated by our laws. Today's laws. Trump is now denying asylum access to border jumpers, I think we need a judge on that since that would mean all those great Blue Blood episodes and the like where the Ruskie jumps up and says: “I want asylum,” will be met by laughter in Trumpland. And that’s just not American. Then we are down to drug runners and criminals. Do you really think your Trump wall will stop them at 900 miles? You just know that's not true for the drugs, probably not for dedicated criminals, so think about the rest and think about is there perhaps a better way than Trump's publicity stunt?
What can I say: brutal juice.....
Do not be drinking while watching to avoid keyboard spews.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTb3GR6yrQI
https://www.foxnews.com/us/migrant-caravan-may-be-in-tijuana-for-the-long-haul-while-u-s-shuts-down-san-diego-area-crossing
So Homeland Security has counted around 500 criminals and most are not women and children, they just get pushed toward the front to make it look that way.
Fox News is far right bias with mixed factual reporting. Based on the narrative, I would second source this since does not jive with current narrative as to caravan makeup or timing to reach the border.
Also, while they might see single males, how exactly do they determine criminality?
gotta thank tRUMP for vaporizing the GOP.
Dems received in excess of +7 on the popular vote.
Wicked Witch of the West- “ I’m Melting....”
B-Bye...
Caravan still going to spread Smallpox in the US ( disease eradicated in the 70’s)
Or has Faux moved on to some more threatening buzzword that they’ll pour out of the TV have their shrinking demo lap up.
Nielsen analysis
96% white
Average age 67 yrs.
They’ll all be dead in a generation.
Call ‘em generation geriatric
AND OH, YES—IVANKA TRUMP JUST BUSTED FOR USING PERSONAL EMAIL TO CONDUCT GOVERNMENT BUSINESS.
HAHAHA—- can’t make this stuff up
LOCK HER UP!
LOCK HER UP!
Nice try SD. So it doesn't fit your narrative of innocent peasants looking for a better life so it must be wrong. Obviously Homeland Security has a better idea of what's going on than you and Slimie.
Gonna be +9 by the time its all over.
While it still might be a white Christmas, gonna be the hotest January in history. Trump’s sweating already. Fire Mueller and he just becomes a witness to the House Judiciary.
Wonder if he’ll grind it through impeachment or just take the money and run.
Nice try Mets; Nielsen is on the bubble under threat of firing; she lies all the time, and you just swallow her tweet swill. Of course you swallowed it before on the forced family separations when she told you it’s the law of the land just before Trump ended it via EO which would have been impossible if Nielsen was telling the truth.
Get a second source.
Find out how they know. Spies? Self-reporting?
so Ivanka is Secretary of State, and sending Codeword Clearance / Top Secret national security intelligence information pertaining to armed forces operations through a server in her bathroom? Did she smash it when the federal bureau of matters asked for it?
Yep, too bad Hillary/Comey set the precedent that it’s OK (as long as you didn’t *mean* to do anything wrong) to send (and subsequently destroy) sensitive information.
Sounds like Ivanka used the email to ask what time was good for lunch...
As long as she didn't do this, lest we forget how Hillary messed up her political career:
The FBI on Sept. 2 released a two-part summary of its investigation of Clinton that said the former secretary of state’s emails were deleted “sometime between March 25-31, 2015.″ That was about three weeks after the House Select Committee on Benghazi served Clinton with a subpoena on March 4, 2015, to produce any emails related to its investigation into the deaths of four Americans in Benghazi in 2012. - from factcheck.org in case this is fake news
"so Ivanka is Secretary of State, and sending Codeword Clearance / Top Secret national security intelligence information pertaining to armed forces operations through a server in her bathroom?"
How's the Kool Aid today Skippy? Got yourself a yuge glass?
Ivanka is a top White House official, perhaps the closest person to the President. It's like she's his favorite daughter. Does that Trump SOS whom Trump fires regularly?
We don't know what she sent. Her lawyer says it was all transitional logistics stuff. He also said no classified. Well, we know you believe that one.
She did not use a private server. Well Skippy, what can you tell us about her server? It's Microsoft but where is it? What country? In a nuance only true libery seekers might know, the Patriot Act allows much listening on Domestic communications where servers are located outside our borders. And they have a lot to listen too.
So, much to investigate, bring on January and until then, lock her up, lock her up. Game on Tiny.
switch (circumstance) {
case hillary:
printf("No one cares about some dumb email server. Get over it!");
return;
case avenatti:
printf("We must wait until all the facts are in before making a judgement.");
return;
default:
printf("Orange man bad!");
}
“And I’ve got a bridge for you to buy, Marky-Mark”
What bridge?
Ivanka’s lawyers provided all requested emails for retention.
No blackberry smashing with hammers or bleached rags required...
wake me when they are classified, leaked to enemies, get people killed, then deleted when subpoenaed.
It's early yet, wait until January when a full investigation with subpoenas can be launched to find out the truth behind this transgression.
Probably nothing because Microsoft is very secure and only has hundreds of thousands of its servers located overseas in foreign countries, some of which are hostile to US interests. I am sure she was on a US one. And besides, Business Trump looked at each email for security through it's corporate security package so it's not like they were mixing business with pleasure with government secrets. I mean I am sure Putin hasn't hacked Don's business yet. It's not like Russians are all over Trump Tower or something. It's not like they freakin live ten feet from his wire.... I mean Trump promised to stay arm's reach from his business and Ivanka has very tiny arms.
Mueller might have some extra time by then. He can help.
Great so now yet another Liberal judge trying to prevent the administration from protecting our border... I'm sorry SD I don't know what planet you people live on, but continuing to let thousands upon thousands of people in and then having to release them after a certain amount of time before they get a hearing is stupid policy. We're just turning this country into a 3rd world if this continues. It's a slap in the face of people waiting in line to become citizens. No one has a right just to walk in. Even Mexicans are getting pissed off at these people. I guess they're racists too right...
Maja with the killer post. Take note JR and Skippy --- that's how it's done!
May not agree, but will have to do a lot of work not to since she nailed that one down hard and fast.
Huh? I haven't said anything about Ivanka's emails, first I've heard of it was this thread LOL
BTW, what's the deal with the judge giving HRC 30 days to produce some answers? I thought her case was done... apparently not?
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/court-rules-hillary-clinton-must-answer-more-questions-about-her-emails
I'm sure nothing will come of it, HRC being old news now. She's in the has-been category. That is until she runs for president YET AGAIN. I still think the DNC is going to have a very large problem with that LOL
You thought I was talking about Ivanka’s emails in that last post? No, sorry, I was providing a spotlight on how to construct a great post supported well. Good luck.
Is the Coward in Chief still touting stock market “ gains” as a true indication of his righteous leadership?
Timber.........
Turmp just announced it's OK for Saudi Arabia to kill that journalist because we need their arms contracts, their investments in the US, and lower oil prices.
Not that we can be bought and sold.
So on one hand the left says $100 Billion in tariff charges on China will destroy the world economy yet they want us to sacrifice $450 Billion in exports because they want to turn the Kashoggi murder into some type of international incident. He was a heavy player in Saudi Politics, and when the Prince was put in charge he got whacked.
People are killed in the middle east as well as many other countries (China comes to mind), all the time, and the MSM is silent - Now, because it is a U.S. ally, they pretend to lose it. We have very few allies left in that region.
Saudi Arabia is a monarchy and a totalitarian state. ANY alliance with Saudi Arabia is an effectively an endorsement of their regime. Historically, the USA has been allied with Saudi Arabia for a long time. Trump is continuing that relationship for the good of the nation because the pros outweigh the cons. Not every decision is rainbows and sunshine. But I get it - orange man bad.
No, but orange man lie and you say “please sir, can I have some more?”
Where do you see 450B in exports? Trump?
Ivanka was never that smart, but she became less smart after converting essentially becoming a baby-producing machine...
...and don't forget that our Chief Coward's mother came from Scotland to be a domestic servant. He needs to remember his roots. No shame in her work, honest blue collar work, but he needs to tone it down a bit.
No shame- no shame
tRUMP’s base of uneducated, racial majority ( but not for long!) , low earning , hate mongering underachievers know no shame.
Trash Gold Star parents
Trash Navy Seal Hero’s
Trash disabled, OK in your face wonton murder of a US journalist
Trash women
All OK with them
History will not be kind to you
LMFAO!!!! Look how up in arms SD is about Ivanka's emails, yet there was not one peep out of him when Hilary did it.....not a single peep when Hilary smashed GOVERNMENT PROPERTY with hammers......just crickets.....hypocrisy at it's best!
I say investigate them all, treat them all equally, and lock them all up! I mean at this point of FBI investigation demands, why not just investigate everyone!
LOL what makes you think all his supporters are low earning.... I guarantee there are more low earners flocking to the democrats, you know the ones looking for handouts that think the Democrats have their backs. Trumps supporters actually work for a living... Ah the Gold Star argument, sorry but that guy grandstanded at the Democratic Convention and trashed Trump. Now we're supposed to feel sorry for him because Trump asked why his wife didn't speak... You're funny Stymie....
Yes, I’m up in arms. Oh the horror of it all.
I am sure she did the stupidest thing a Trump could do beyond losing her birth certificate or admitting the tax audit is complete, any tax audit just to make Hillary feel better. Listen to Trump’s rationalizations. And I’m the hypocrite.
I’m the guy who says, go ahead, investigate Hillary.....again and again. It is your way. Benghazi ho! The only thing you like more than ridiculous redundant repeat investigations is 50 repeals to leave your lover.
I think you should be proud of getting me to agree with you about the scourge of private emails and Ivanka. Lock her up. Lock her up. January House investigation.
Wait till they find her email server is overseas...
Don’t worry; there’s a bottleneck expected on pending investigations. Yuge bottleneck.
Well well well....
(and before StrangerAlternateReality tries to impune the source:
DW news: LEFT-Center bias, as per Media Bias Fact Check)
"The EconPol Europe study calculates that Chinese exporters are bearing approximately 75 percent of the costs, meaning that eventually a net gain of $18.4 billion will be added to the US economy."
" Let's be clear that tariffs are nothing else but duties that have to be shouldered by foreign producers and domestic consumers," co-author Gabriel Felbermayr said in a statement.
He points out that US consumer prices for affected Chinese imports will most likely rise by 4.5 percent, but confirms that the US economy as a whole will profit from the protracted trade spat.
"The problem with protectionism is that can indeed be economically beneficial for the United States," Felbermayr said.
https://www.dw.com/en/no-winners-in-us-china-trade-spat-says-who/a-46372019
Jr: is thus about emails; caravan, forest fires or are you just posting any highly factual source you can find! Wow, you finally found a reasonable source and now you cover Euro Socialist Economists. Interesting choice. Not sure what response you are looking for and really wondering if you have taken altered reality to heart....
Yeah JeffRep- and the tax cuts will more than pay for themselves.
Hey, I’m gonna live forever- so far , so good....
Right
You guys got nothing, your points are shown wrong, or at least spun, at every turn. Yet you won't accept truth. You live on conjecture, hope, and political spin. You shun anything that remotely disagrees with your world view. You sound like children of a Schumer-Pelosi union.
As far as "what response I'm looking for"- none you can provide. Because as I have said over & over again, I want the TRUTH. Not guesses, not conjecture, not political obfuscation and spin. I have disagreed with republican platforms. Have you ever disagreed with a democrat one? If so, I've never seen it. I search for the truth, whether it means I'm proven right or wrong. Using the "trade war" as an example, all I've heard is the right say it's a good thing and the left say it's a bad thing, as predicted. BUT NOW I find a left-leaning source that says it's a good thing, and that is NOT the status quo talking points of the rest. I'm interested. Seems to me that source is also searching for the truth, EVEN IF IT GOES AGAINST THEIR POLITICAL LEANINGS.
Learning you're wrong sometimes is the only way you learn gentlemen. You should try it sometime. The truth will set you free. It'll probably really upset you first, but in the end it will set you free.
+1000 JR
@SD "Lock her up. Lock her up"
Yes, correct...this makes you a hypocrite!
Where were you when Hilary smashed government property with hammers? Now suddenly you claim that you always said to go ahead and investigate her....you never did such a thing! She should have been locked up simply for destroying government property....where were you for that!
And secondly, I find it hilarious that you think just because I do not agree with you on a continual basis, I must obviously agree with every single thing Trump does.....your rationalization is like a loose cannon!
Stymie's post above is a hilarious insight into the a$$-backwards liberal way of thinking and says it all "Muttsman The fact that you are OK with ALL I’ve listed above Convinces me that you and your ilk are in for a hard fall."
FYI first off Styime, you seem to have a problem typing....it's Metsman...or is that a funny thing to do? GROW UP!
Secondly, case in point....Metsman didn't even acknowledge what Stymie said, and the constitutes Stymie coming to the conclusion of "The fact that you are OK with ALL I’ve listed above".....REALLY!!!!! LMFAO!!!!! You didn't even read my post, so this MUST be what you think ....WOW you and SD are one in the same!!!
Must be the new hip "liberal" thing to do :->.....if people don't take the bait it's obviously because they are "okay with what you have said" or agree with trump, or yeah....they are also RACIST!!!....you guys are unreal!
All I can say is STILL BETTER THEN HILARY!!!!
I find it funny Stymie thinks we should be up in arms about the Saudis killing a journalist, but him and SD won't acknowledge the problem with illegals killing citizens here. Between MS-13 and just plain criminal illegals, I guarantee more people die each year than police shoot unarmed black men. BUT.... we're supposed to believe the death of a journalist and shot unarmed black men is a bigger problem... RIGHT.... Liberals are funny people...
Let’s dissect JR’s piece and commend his on his highly factual source with a focus on the players, winners and losers. The main groundbreaking news is that: “The EconPol Europe study calculates that Chinese exporters are bearing approximately 75 percent of the costs, meaning that eventually a net gain of $18.4 billion will be added to the US economy.” I believe this is correct, except for the values, but not sure it helps the consumer.
Using your article, we need to list the players and who gets what. The US govt charges a tariff on China and gets 100% of the profits of said tariffs. So, does that money grow the economy? Depends where it comes from, but guaranteed, the government does grow its revenues and they never save any money as would consumers save (a wee bit maybe). Tthe govt spends everything they get ---- so additional government funds (like tariffs and taxes), grow the economy at the fastest possible rate unless they pay down the debt. (hmmm, an argument for higher taxes or why tax cuts don’t grow the economy as fast as taxes? But the theory is business and consumers invest and spend more wisely that the govt).
China is not passing the whole tariff on to consumers, instead it is voluntarily eating 75% of the tariff, meaning they are only raising the price for the other 25% and taking the profit hit of the 75% --- their economy takes the hit for this, but remember, they probably have margin room to move and they can change the 75% any time they want. So Chinese economy shrinks, ours grows.
Generally, the engine of price stickiness slows all artificial price increases as the owners attempt to “suck it up” and hold price. Inevitably, the price wall falls, and new, higher, efficient pricing is established commensurate with the new costs.
Meanwhile, consumers eat 25% of the tariff in 4.5% increased prices and either lose money or must find alternatives. They either lose or break-even if perfect alternatives exist. If perfect alternatives existed, the Chinese wouldn’t have the market they have today. So, consumers lose something -- money, quality, features, something....
I believe that’s the crux of it with the US growth dependent on the Chinese eating 75% of it which is voluntary and can change at any time. Also, I am guessing this number is the "survey" part so, face it, probably self-reported by Chinese manufacturers, an average, and if you were asked, what would you say: "hell yes, I'm jacking the price of everything and sticking it to the US consumer...." But there it is, seems factual.
He’ s got some other interesting facts, all probably true, but kinda flying in the face of our economic blue bird of Chinese economic happiness. And he does not even mention the concept of retaliation where, perhaps, the Chinese dump their t-bills in reaction to tariffs. That would really affect our economy, might even use the word tailspin. But here we go on the other comments:
“Chinese exports to the US are bound to decrease by 37 percent because of higher duties, the study says, and this will eventually lead to 17 percent drop in China's trade surplus with the United States.” So, on a 4.5% price increase, China is a big loser on many economic levels, makes sense. How long will they take the loss and continue to eat the tariffs?
"Let's be clear that tariffs are nothing else but duties that have to be shouldered by foreign producers and domestic consumers," (get it, consumers; this does not sound like an economic blue bird to me – same study…..)
“the search by companies based in the US and China for suitable substitution for certain tariff-affected goods is benefiting Malaysia in particular, but Japan, Pakistan, Thailand and the Philippines are also among the beneficiaries. OK, that’s the big one; there are alternatives, they are being used. If they are perfect, then China gets replaced, the US govt. gets bupkus, and prices return to normal for consumers. Uh, he didn’t mention that little wrinkle now, did he?
I could be wrong as to the reason he sees the US economy growing, I did not find the study to read the rest of his story. But I think I got it. And it’s what he leaves out that is interesting: that the 75% can change at any time, that consumers will suffer even if the economy benefits, and that it’s all moot if there are perfect alternatives and there are plenty of alternatives. While factually correct, that’s the spin, I think, if my assumption as to where the economic growth comes from.
Like that JR? Feel more open now?
good points, It's a convenient self-serving manufactured faux outrage from the self-deluded ideologues who have never accepted the results of a legitimate election.
The Dems can't accept defeat, just look at Ga. , at the nonsense in Broward County, they can't give the winner any credit or legitimacy. They refuse to accept the results of the election.
Whatever happened to great democratic party? Where's the likes of JFK, Harry Truman and FDR in the paty today? No one with their solid character is around anymore and that's a bad thing. The party needs folks of that caliber and they just aren't there.
Yes American democracy is under attack, its under attack by rank partisans who will do anything and say anything to keep the other side from gaining power. Just look in this one thread, SD is the biggest offender here and he thinks he's being balanced and clever. It's not true but he is blind to it. (sadly)
It's a sad commentary on the state of America. The fact that SD and Stymie and a few others here fall into this so easily is alarming. Thank the good lord they aren't in charge of anything. Just blowing off steam is all they have accomplished.
"Like that JR? Feel more open now?"
Well, at least you've got a well-thought-out reply this time, instead of your usual
"They're wrong, because Trump is an evil racist who needs to be stopped and therefore nothing with Trump's name on it can come of ANY good. CNN, Rachel Maddow, and Stephen Colbert told me so."
So, he says yay... you say maybe nay (but you're not sure)... which leaves us exactly where I always say it leaves us: NOBODY KNOWS. Lots of "expert" opinions flying around on all sides, but nobody KNOWS. Just alot of people who THINK they know.
So if you'd continue realizing that with your posts (like you just did) instead of continually thinking you actually DO know geopolitics and world economy better than the experts, things would go alot better. :)
Have a good Thanksgiving, StrangerAlternateReality
Yawn. Just not true.
You just want a world that agrees with you and hates the left.
Best luck.
@ SD "Yawn. Just not true.
You just want a world that agrees with you and hates the left.
Best luck."
And what exactly is it you want?
"And what exactly is it you want?" -Darrin
A world that agrees with him (SD) and hates the right. That's how tolerant the left is.
Solve world hunger. Give the poor a hand-up, not a hand-out. Party on Wayne.
If I wanted the world to agree with me; I would be posting on HL :-)
Earlier Trump told us how many billions he made from the Saudi’s; today the same answer from Trump’s lips is zero, nada, zip. Now he tells us how we need to suck up a little dismembering by team Saudi because we need their billions and their oil. Wonder what his number will be tomorrow. And didn’t he just tell us he freed us from foreign oil. Isn’t WV just rolling in coal dollars; who needs oil.
It’s confusing for sure. Best to forget everything except what he just said.
US unemployment rate 4.0
WV rate = 5.2
Worst state in the Union.
Dig baby Dig. Two years and coal In’t back —employment wise.
Greyhawk, please get off you soap box.
Fact- neither party has the discipline to do what needs to be done to right this ship- the USS United States.
As I’ve stated many times before- a career in politics has morfed from public service—serving the public- to a money grabbing exercise in self aggrandizement.
I know that, and I think WE ALL KNOW THAT.
Having said that- tRUMP has revealed himself to be a liar of the highest magnitude- a bully- a racist - a coward-no class egomaniac who is woefully unqualified to occupy the Oval Office.
Every day that passes his inadequacies are magnified.
He’s zoning out- the walls are starting to close in on him- and the disloyalty he has shown to those he surrounds himself with is now coming back to him like a boomerang.
He’s a wounded animal.
Has nothing to do with his political affiliation- we all know that he’s not a Republican.
He’s been relegated to circus sideshow- or maybe a more apt visual would be a Circus elephant shytting in the middle ring of a three ring circus.
I find it hard to believe that anyone- of ANY political stripe would trade the reputation and currency we have developed as a society in return for one or two Supreme Court Justices.
Not an equitable exchange.
"Solve world hunger. Give the poor a hand-up, not a hand-out."
Then YOU should take PERSONAL actions on your own to help those causes... not vote to force others to pay for YOUR charitable wants. I take personal actions and use PERSONAL money for the charitable causes I favor, I don't vote to force others to pay into my charitable causes. But that's what liberalism-turned-progressivism really is: fascism. You can try to paint the right fascist as much as you want, the truth is it's the LEFT who is intolerant, the LEFT who wants to force others to follow their societal wants by force of law.
The right does it too- WAR is a perfect example. I get some people don't want to pay for wars. I don't want to pay for most of it anymore. But TODAY, in the 21st century, it is the LEFT campaigning on bigger govt, higher taxes, spending MORE money, more regulation ("your electric bill will, necessarily, skyrocket"- Barack Obama), letting EVERYBODY in and PAYING FOR THEM, all with taxpayer money- all in the faux name of "helping people" or "saving the planet". All it is is so-called "social justice" rule by force. Fascism.
“To those that much is given, much is expected”
John Fitzgerald Kennedy
“I got mine, not my job”
JeffRep
"Then YOU should take PERSONAL actions on your own to help those causes.." Who died and made you Pope? You be da judge that knows my charitable works and donations? Assume a lot?
"I take personal actions and use PERSONAL money for the charitable causes I favor," Well hat's off to your personal pat on the back. TY.
"You can try to paint the right fascist as much as you want" Thank you, but I have never done that.
"bigger govt, higher taxes, spending MORE money, more regulation ("your electric bill will, necessarily, skyrocket"- Barack Obama), " such a boring generalization that has absolutely nothing to do with me. And given your spending, your deficit, your wars, -- yeah, you own it now ---- two year rule, I would be careful given the glass house you have constructed.
Good job going for the factual stuff; one post in a row!
So SD is ok with illegals killing citizens but one journalist gets killed and we're supposed to cut off all ties to Saudi Arabia... Right... I think I'm more worried about what happens on our own soil...
http://m.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/trump_administration/prez_track_nov21
51% approval rating
What lind of person would accuse another of being ok with illegals killing Americans?
Who said we should cut all ties with the Saudi’s?
Come on Mets.
"What kind of person would accuse another of being ok with illegals killing Americans? "
The same person that argues that it is a waste of money to secure our boarders and make America safer?
Met's is just using Stymie's rational of coming to conclusions....you didn't say anything when Stymie did it.....
Roberts dumps on Trump over Obama judges comment. Ouch, where did that come from. I thought Roberts was mute...
Trump says to Saudi’s, who cares we need the money. Saudi’s say: what money?
Trump says he writes own answers to Mueller; how—crayons ? No, he tweeted them ;-)
Says there’s perjury traps all over them. Ez way to avoid Don. Its called the truth. Tru it some time.
Judge squashes Trump’s asylum ban. To bad Trump’s incompetent when it comes to legislative matters and, of course, the Constitution. I thought this one had merit and actually might improve things while saving a few lives.
Pelosi clears her path to Speaker. Oh yeah, that’s how you git er done. Life’s a Mitch, Don.
"such a boring generalization that has absolutely nothing to do with me."
Great! Then you should take a LIBERAL dose of your own advice and realize that not everyone who disagrees with you is a "Trump loving no matter what cause he's always lying radical right wing nut job who wants to start a trade war and starve ILLEGAL immigrants."
Thank you very much.
Ok. Got it. Keep on doin what I’ve been doin. Got it.
But you want me to call you a facist? Seems a bit harsh. I don’t like that.
I think I must be reading this incorrectly?
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/statement-president-donald-j-trump-standing-saudi-arabia/
He's not actually saying that we as a country will overlook the murder of Jamal Khashoggie because it makes monetary sense to do so, right?
Because I can't fathom that such a suggestion could be put forth by a sitting President. But I don't know how else to interpret these words. Please help.
Especially interested in thoughts on this from
the smart conservative and independent voices on this site. (Liberals will only confirm what I'm reading because of their dislike of Trump, which I understand. But I'm trying to NOT believe it is possible for a sitting US President to say it's okay to dismiss State-sanctioned murder when it makes economic sense to do so.)
Rebecka goes liberal-whisperer; I thought you were open minded.... THIS liberal would say most Presidents, of any persuasion, would take similar actions but no experienced manager would ever frame it with those stupid, stupid, Trump words combined with all those factual monetary, let’s call them misstatements. They might also throw a “stop order” on the arms sales knowing they could re-start later or some other face-saving sanction.
No one is going to attempt to hold a Saudi leader to task. But only Trump would frame it as a cash for crime deal.
OK—-for all you fake news Trumpian believers and those saying NRA says CDC lies about guns being our hugest death cause, This Thanksgiving...... double down on the salad. Bon apetit ;-)
after the gold standard fell, we made a deal with the Saudis to back them so oil could only be purchased in USD. If you want oil you need USD reserves handy.
It is not a coincidence OPEC'S currency is indexed with USD.
People need to stop thinking only Trump has an interest in KSA. Regardless of who is president the same outcome would have happened.
https://www.investopedia.com/articles/forex/072915/how-petrodollars-affect-us-dollar.asp
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2016-05-30/the-untold-story-behind-saudi-arabia-s-41-year-u-s-debt-secret
That being said - Much of the Muslim world is already showing signs of improving relations with Israel, including Saudi Arabia. The Crown Prince has said that Israelis have a right to their land. Saudi businessmen have traveled to Israel. There’s been talk of intelligence sharing. Israel is even showing signs of support to the Saudi Egyptian bridge project that they could be objecting to on rights of navigation grounds. The Saudis have political and religious concerns regarding the Palestinians and Holy sites, so that been a diplomatic sticking point, but relations are currently at something of a high and there is a broader peace process going on with us and many other countries.
There was not much else Trump could do.
I'm with Rand Paul on this one.
Saudi Arabis is not our friend. We should not selling arms to them. Price of their oil (and our gas) be damned. Altho, from what I understand, we now produce more of our own oil than we buy from SA, so...
Whoever the sitting president is is irrelevant. Political party is irrelevant. SA is not our friend. But yes- pretty sure Trump sees this as a business deal.... but then so did Obama and every president before him. No president has stood up to SA. Hell, we fought Gulf War One over the price of oil.
As for Jamal, couldn't care less. He's a straw man people are using to try to make Trump look bad (worse than other presidents in regards to SA). What SA did is nothing new. It's just the first time such an act was discovered and highly reported. Jamal was not an American citizen. None of our business. If you do a little digging you will also find out he was HIGHLY connected in the arms game, he was not some "idealistic journalist looking to save the world by taking on SA rulers." WAY more too it than that.
The easiest way to wash the whole thing away? Stop arming SA.
BTW- America does state-sanctioned murder all the time. You don't hear about it in the media of course, but it happens. Hell, an argument could be made every drone strike we carry out is state-sanctioned murder, since we do not have a declaration of war.
there's no way to game this out. You start regime change, you have no idea how it will end.
Here's an article: https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-statement-on-khashoggi-reveals-dark-secret-of-us-policy-2018-11
I think a good question is why is this partnership with Saudi Arabia so powerful that not a single president democrat or republican, can break it despite most of the 9/11 terrorists being from there.
Google the "Petro-Dollar".
The fact that KSA oil is only tradeed with the US Dollar currency artificially creates an inherent value to the US currency that has propelled foreign nations to hoard it, giving us the supremacy of our borrowing position.
When Iraq was opening to trade in the Euro in 2001 is why we invaded them even though Iraq had nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks.
Maintaining KSA's allegiance to the petro-dollar is vital to the health of our nation as #1 economy of the world. Once the oil is traded on other currency, our foreign debts become much more difficult to pay back.
A good read on the subject is: Confessions of an Economic Hit Man
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confessions_of_an_Economic_Hit_Man
I'd also suggestion, that rather than attributing economic growth to presidents, just take a moment to look at the cost of the Barrel of Oil to "Boom / Busts" cycles. Cheap energy is #1 indicator for Business Activity.
I like you Rebecca so i will attempt to answer your question. Trump condemned the murder unequivocally: "this is an unacceptable and horrible crime"
"this is an unacceptable and horrible crime. King Salman and Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman vigorously deny any knowledge of the planning or execution of the murder of Mr. Khashoggi. Our intelligence agencies continue to assess all information, but it could very well be that the Crown Prince had knowledge of this tragic event – maybe he did and maybe he didn’t!"
President Trump did not dismiss State-sanctioned murder because it makes economic sense to do so, as he said (in his words): "this is an unacceptable and horrible crime"
The intelligence community is not completely sure but has valid probable suspicion that certain individuals in the Saudi Royal family were involved at some level. They are still gathering data.
Our relationship with the Saudis is deep, long and complex. Not every relationship the US has is going to only be with individuals/nations of upstanding character. As President Trump has said:
"In any case, our relationship is with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. They have been a great ally in our very important fight against Iran. The United States intends to remain a steadfast partner of Saudi Arabia to ensure the interests of our country, Israel and all other partners in the region. "
Trump is putting US interests first, which is his job as president. US Interests are not only economic, but there are legitimate security issues to be considered as well.
More sanctions/reactions and strong responses may be coming from the US to the Saudis on this. It is not over and not a done deal. The situation is still unfolding.
“This Thanksgiving...... double down on the salad. Bon apetit ;-)”
Thats harsh, even for you.
To the rest of HL, hope you all have a happy and relaxing Thanksgiving!
"Once the oil is traded on other currency, our foreign debts become much more difficult to pay back."
Give Trump credit on this one, he is right-Americans don't have the guts to stand up to Saudi Arabia. They need cheap oil to lubricate the lifestyle they enjoy and rang up the debt on, just like state employees need taxes to lubricate their lifestyles. Plenty of lubrication going on, and if Trump tampers with the lubrication, the pain begins, hard and fast. That would make him the worst president in history, and his image is everything to him.
Tulsi Gabbard tweeted "Hey @realdonaldtrump: being Saudi Arabia's bitch is not 'America First,'" wrote Gabbard, a 37-year-old Iraq War veteran.
The lady has a point. Americans talk Mike Rowe, but don't want to live like Mike Rowe preaches, they know there is no money or prestige cleaning septic tanks-and American women want men who make money. Trump is smart enough to know this, and like other politicians, will kick this can down the road. Why should he take the heat for something that has been going on for years?
In an unrelated matter, the Chinese have recently taken over the port of Djibouti- a very strategic port-and are making lots of friends in the area with their donations of money that American consumers have gladly spent on Chinese products needed to fill American McMansions. Delayed self gratification has really helped the Chinese move forward. Americans want same day Amazon delivery, it's like heroin to the middle class consumer.
Thanks Donald Trump, for making sure the cheap oil continues to flow. Wanna have a little more fun before the whole thing comes crashing down.
Thank you all. Good food for thoughtS.
These are not easy times for America by any stretch. I have have a hard time wrapping my head around it, to be honest. I'm very much tuned out of the day-to-day back and forth. But every so often I read a news article, and my head spins. I just really wonder who is going to be standing when all this dust/vitriol settles.
I suppose only time will tell. Let's hope in the end we become a more peaceful, less angry Nation. (Divided we fall and all, right?)
I suppose only time will tell.
Yea, and it is out of our control. All we have is our vote and even that is questionable in many of Caesars places.
"I suppose only time will tell. Let's hope in the end we become a more peaceful, less angry Nation. (Divided we fall and all, right?)"
If ever there were a prayer for America, that is it.
The building is on fire, and burning like the California wildfires, fueled by both our own politicians and the media. The question is, is it too late to put the fire out? Or is it so big now it has to run it's course, destroy everything, and we will have to rebuild on the other side?
Time will tell.
"All we have is our vote and even that is questionable in many of Caesars places."
Ain't that the truth. All of today's advanced tech, and they still can't get the vote accurately counted in 24 hours? It's not only ridiculous, it's suspicious. I have said if the American people start to not trust the vote, that will be the very beginnings of a revolution of some kind. Without a TRUE vote, we are no longer America, we are no better than Russia in that regard, with their faux elections.
“I consider it completely unimportant who in the party will vote, or how; but what is extraordinarily important is this — who will count the votes, and how.”
-Joseph Stalin
Hey JIT: I didn't post it on the Xgiving thanks pages, lighten up....
JR, Really, I do agree. I mean how else could Trump lose the majority vote and still get into office.
I would worry less around the count and more about the Russian meddling which we do absolutely nothing about except to praise Putin (why is that?) and gerrymandering which we all like to do, JR's side has the lead right now, and really poisons the well.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/democracy-post/wp/2017/02/10/gerrymandering-is-the-biggest-obstacle-to-genuine-democracy-in-the-united-states-so-why-is-no-one-protesting/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.dbab72e41fa7
Without a “TRUE” vote?
Insinuating that the current vote is “FALSE”?
Sour grapes on the menu today, huh.
I am of the opinion it is too late, JR. I *wish* there were a way to put the fire out, but in my heart of hearts, I really don't believe there is. Every forest needs a good fire from time to time, though. It's just the cyclical nature of things. I admire the optimism, courage and convictions of those who continue to try to contain it, but I myself am standing way back, just watching... in speechless awe of the flames which consume our once great civilization.
As Rome went, so shall we.
"JR, Really, I do agree. I mean how else could Trump lose the majority vote and still get into office. "
Oh boy, here we go again... you need a refresher course in Civics 101 and why the electoral college was invented.
"I would worry less around the count and more about the Russian meddling"
What Russian meddling? Still waiting for ANY proof on that one.
"Sour grapes on the menu today, huh."
The republicans hold the presidency and the senate. What sour grapes? The house is hamstrung, can't complete anything they start w/o the other two. No worries.
Rebecka, I agree with your entire last post. After 30 years of closely following politics, while the state of the country has it's up & downs, like the stock market, over the decades it goes down (unlike the stock market). And it seems everyone agrees on that... just depends on what "side" you are on as to what you call an "up" or a "down". I long for the years of Reagan, personally. And if JFK were running today, I'd vote for him as well (altho he was well before my time). Some people may not believe it, but that IS how Trump is viewed- as a change from the status quo of R&D, that's how an unlikely, unlikeable, unpolitician was able to win the presidency. And I've been saying that the whole time too. While he ran as a republican, the GOP did not even want him because he's NOT REALLY a GOP Republican. He's a populist. And if there's something DC hates more than a libertarian, it's a populist.
So now we'll have 2 years of trying to impeach Trump, if it goes far enough we'll have the hearings and the senate find him not guilty, but it's going to be a circus. And even bigger one than these past 2 years. The democrats will make sure of that. All an elaborate ruse for votes the next go-round. They need to decide who they're running next time tho, as the campaign for 2020 will be starting immediately.
The opinion of "we are past saving it", has had me thinking of turning off all news and not voting. Not out of despair, just out of practicality. If we're going to burn, let's get it over with so we can get out the other side and get on with the work of rebuilding. I sometimes think it would be a good thing if a "Designated Survivor" scenario actually happened... rather than our current "death by a thousand cuts".
(Designated Survivor was a TV show where the Capital building was bombed, with everyone in it, and the person who had to take control of the country was the director of housing and urban development). Ultimate chaos, but the swamp is gone, sort of pouring gasoline on the fire to get it to the end game faster.
"that IS how Trump is viewed- as a change from the status quo of R&D, that's how an unlikely, unlikeable, unpolitician was able to win the presidency. And I've been saying that the whole time too. While he ran as a republican, the GOP did not even want him because he's NOT REALLY a GOP Republican. He's a populist. And if there's something DC hates more than a libertarian, it's a populist."
+1 nailed it! "Those who have eyes, let them see . . . "
JR he's a funny little man. Had Hillary lost the popular vote and won the Presidency, he'd be saying how great of a system it is. This is how we've done things since the birth of this country. Orange county in California shouldn't be deciding all our Presidential elections. We are a republic of 50 countries United together. If you want to say popular vote should decide the election, then I guess every state should have the same laws too. People who can conceal carry a firearm in PA and other states should also be able to do so in NJ if that's the game people like SD want to play. Until then this is our system. Each state gets it's say and electoral votes represent approximately the percentage of the population each state has in the United States.
"I am of the opinion it is too late, JR. I *wish* there were a way to put the fire out, but in my heart of hearts, I really don't believe there is. Every forest needs a good fire from time to time, though. It's just the cyclical nature of things. I admire the optimism, courage and convictions of those who continue to try to contain it, but I myself am standing way back, just watching... in speechless awe of the flames which consume our once great civilization.
As Rome went, so shall we."
Rebecka, I agree as well. Just look at the legacy we are leaving for our children-all started by greed and gluttony, and look at the age of those that started this-the youth are the result of the actions of adults. It's all fun to say "watch it burn" when your life is coming towards it's end, it's another to watch it happen when you have a children in elementary school.
None of this was necessary. Plenty to go around for all.
"Orange county in California shouldn't be deciding all our Presidential elections." Not sure what you are saying here in that I agree. OC is fiercely Republican although this year.....
And I was joking: I am fine with the electoral college, a change from my pre-HL days although on my own research as to the intent as to the Founder's intent. Frankly, I have become an advocate of almost any action to take the mob out of it, more so with today's mob. So, against nuclear option, bring back the super majority requirement, electoral college be OK with me, etc.
Even support 'advise and consent," especially for our Attorney General. Anything else would be, well, just unconstitutional.
Mets, if you want to put gun controls under popular vote, I might suggest you should be careful what you ask for.....survey and stats, man.
"Rebecka, I agree with your entire last post." Except we are no where near the schism caused by our choices in Vietnam from 1965 - 1973 and then some. Not even close. The system will force compromise if we let it; things like the nuclear option, Presidential edicts, and the like push against compromise creating further division. Trump's words, most of them, are a complete buzz-kill to working together. Win/lose as a way of life creates both winners and losers. We need to work towards win-win where everybody is equally pleased/unhappy as to the result. IMO.
"You can get anything you want....." Arlo.
"What Russian meddling? Still waiting for ANY proof on that one." Really.... Let me help you with your Trumpian defense: it's no collusion. There's plenty of meddling; even your King agrees.
"What sour grapes? The house is hamstrung, can't complete anything they start w/o the other two. No worries." You heard him folks, no worries. Let's see how long that lasts starting 1/1/2019. Heh, heh.
Again, just mouse-ing you on that post, but I think you knew that.
Nice to see some adults posting here this morning with well thought out and intelligent views.
“Hey JIT: I didn't post it on the Xgiving thanks pages, lighten up....”
You wish a potentially deadly bacteria, E. coli O157:H7, and the harm it can bring on your neighbors and you tell me to lighten up? Really?
Anyway, Who is John Galt?
(All three movies currently included for free with Amazon Prime :-))
John Galt went broke scamming believers.
I am Spartacus and a yuge supporter of Corey's Law, a NJ best. Run Corey, run. Life is like a box of chocolates, better if you read the map :>)
"You wish a potentially deadly bacteria, E. coli O157:H7, and the harm it can bring on your neighbors and you tell me to lighten up? Really?"
Wow, that's some specificity there Jitster. No, I highlight the humorous juxta positioning of Trump fake news believers, MSM haters, the oft-Trump-hated CDC, and the recent MSM-publicized recall of anything Romain. I apologize that my attempt at humor still eludes you.
I wished nothing except "Bon Appetit" for no one; that's on you.
So yeah, lighten up. Really.
After the NYT unleased its report indicating that Trump pressured "his" Justice Department, Spring 2018, to investigate Hillary and Comey, lame duck GOP-ers on the House Judiciary Committee issued subpoenas to Comey and Lynch to appear before Congress BEHIND closed doors.
Comey says sure, but how about in the sunlight in front of all of America.
"Happy Thanksgiving. Got a subpoena from House Republicans. I’m still happy to sit in the light and answer all questions. But I will resist a ‘closed door’ thing because I’ve seen enough of their selective leaking and distortion. Let’s have a hearing and invite everyone to see,”
And the beat goes on.....
I humbly submit that you may be poorly placed to point fingers about phenomena which "go on." You yourself are a wonder unto this Universe of such a phenomenon. I'm afraid we will never reach nor know the true bounds of your talent to produce words. Indeed, your abilities may extend into infinity and go so far as to push the boundaries even there. ;-)
Think I am a little old to be labelled a phenomenon, so I am guessing this is for someone else. Sweetest sarcasm seen since Summer. Great effort.
StrangerDanger, You were in competition with this thread-even this did not go beyond infinity-guess that means everything is on the table now.
"Mind. Blown. By for having the you-know-whats to ask that question of a woman he has never met on a very public forum in 2018.
Thank you, sir, for pushing the envelope of free speech and keeping it WIDE open.
Need to recover from my shock and find a keyboard to reply to both you and DogOwner before my last attached digit falls off."
"What Russian meddling? Still waiting for ANY proof on that one." Really.... Let me help you with your Trumpian defense: it's no collusion.
Oh, so now you'll settle for "meddling"? Kinda' like how "global cooling" turned into "global warming" turned into "climate change"? Or how "democrat" turned into "progressive" then into "liberal", then back to "progressive" and now back to "liberal" again?
IDK how "meddling" is going to help your case against Trump, but whatever helps you sleep at night...
" You heard him folks, no worries. Let's see how long that lasts starting 1/1/2019. Heh, heh. "
First of all, the new House isn't seated until Jan 3, 2019.
Second, while I am sure you are going to enjoy all the noise the House makes, be prepared for 2 years of gridlock... just like under your boy Obama.... then you can get your rocks off blaming the republicans for "obstruction" LOL.... just like under your boy Obama.... this is going to be fun to watch. Better stock up the bar, comrade.
"be prepared for 2 years of gridlock."
I agree JR, that's exactly what will happen, and then other countries move ahead of America as our Repukes and Democraps urinate on each other.
The 2 party system is worthless. The children suffer while the adults throw scat at each other.
Only thing everyone in America ever agrees upon or waves a flag over is when we go to a foreign country and blow up a bunch of people. We wave a flag for an hour, then turn on the tube and watch the game.
"First of all, the new House isn't seated until Jan 3, 2019." I think the lady doth protest to much. Worried already?
I'm sorry, did you just say "just like under your boy Obama," I mean did you just actually say "your boy Obama?" concerning our first black President? Let's call that a tragic mistake, a mondo stupido, rather than you tipping your real hand. Because if you see a boy, you better tip him a fiver, Dad.
I continually remark how your 2016 total victory has, for some strange reason, continued to seem to leave you feeling like total losers. I mean you view the upcoming obstruction as a mirror to 2010 when, in actuality, you have been gridlocked since 2017 after taking all three branches, including a double-play in Congress. You have been gridlocked in your own party. That's why no health care, you can't even get an infrastructure bill passed. The only major legislation has been the tax advantage for business and the uber rich bill and where's his 10% to the middle class he promised......can't even do that.
Just of bunch of EO's, ludicrous appointments, and inflation-sparking trade-war tariffs leaving you still feeling that great feeling of loss you have had since 2010 when the man who led us out of the largest recession since the Depression was vilified by the likes of you. Boy.
"I agree JR, that's exactly what will happen." You are right, but won't be the same. The two party system isn't to blame IMO, it's the money. Stop the paper chase for cash and much will be better. The founders set us up to force compromise and avoid mob rule, or rule based on what's fashionable at the moment. They forced, pause, consideration, and the ability for the minority to be heard. And it's always been and us or them game. Things like the nuclear option, unleashed now by both sides, should be rescinded. 66% for passage forces us to a win-win. Likewise for the electoral college, Congressional structure, and keeping the Judicial at arms length --- all limit the ability of both mob rule and single-person rule. Good stuff IMO.
"Only thing everyone in America ever agrees upon," as understood by most pols who roll it out whenever the pols poll goes down. Clinton was a archetype for this. Stain on dress, bomb Kaddafi….
"We wave a flag for an hour, then turn on the tube and watch the game" No, I say it's much worse than this. Under our new President who doesn't like to kiss n tell (he just pays em off instead), I have to imagine that few HLers even know the countries we are engaged in war with this year. Nor do they know how many kids we have sacrificed in those countries we don't even know we are in. Did you know we have lost more kids this year than in each of the SIX previous years? Hey, it's still only a handful, right? We still go to the parades, right?
Where are we now?
Somalia --- 500 kids, up from 250 last year
Niger --- yeah, that's right, we have folks in Niger
Libya --- yupper, we at war in Libya again
Afghanistan --- 14,000 kids, up thousands over last year
Yemen --- yup, we lost folks in Yemen this year
Iraq --- 7,400 kids, up 1,00 this year
Syria --- 1,500, up 500 this year
What did Trump say about foreign engagements? How easy what this to solve? And is he still using the Bush 2002 Military Authorization to fight Al Qaeda? Who we fighting: AQ, ISIS, Houthi, Taliban, Haqqani, Assad regime, al-Shabab, and unnamed ISIS wannabees in Niger. Did anyone here know that?
I can understand Trump's new blackout during war. This ain't war. This is our everyday in America since 2002. Why hide it. Everyone we are fighting knows more than Americans do. And I think they care more too. Sigh.
Focus on this and the debt and don't let any partisanship silence you.
Here are those who paid the ultimate price: https://thefallen.militarytimes.com/
suze is correct, Rebecca wins HL for 2018
on another note:
By Jeff Foxworthy:
If plastic water bottles are okay, but plastic bags are banned, — you might live in a nation (state) that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.
If you can get arrested for hunting or fishing without a license, but not for entering and remaining in the country illegally — you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.
If you have to get your parents' permission to go on a field trip or to take an aspirin in school, but not to get an abortion — you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.
If you MUST show your identification to board an airplane, cash a check, buy liquor, or check out a library book and rent a video, but not to vote for who runs the government — you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.
If the government wants to prevent stable, law-abiding citizens from owning gun magazines that hold more than ten rounds, but gives twenty F-16 fighter jets to the crazy new leaders in Egypt — you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.
If, in the nation's largest city, you can buy two 16-ounce sodas, but not one 24-ounce soda, because 24-ounces of a sugary drink might make you fat — you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.
If an 80-year-old woman who is confined to a wheelchair or a three-year-old girl can be strip-searched by the TSA at the airport, but a woman in a burka or a hijab is only subject to having her neck and head searched — you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.
If your government believes that the best way to eradicate trillions of dollars of debt is to spend trillions more — you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.
If a seven-year-old boy can be thrown out of school for saying his teacher is "cute" but hosting a sexual exploration or diversity class in grade school is perfectly acceptable — you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.
If hard work and success are met with higher taxes and more government regulation and intrusion while not working is rewarded with Food Stamps, WIC checks, Medicaid benefits, subsidized housing, and free cell phones — you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.
If you pay your mortgage faithfully, denying yourself the newest big-screen TV, while your neighbor buys iPhones, time shares, a wall-sized do-it-all plasma screen TV and new cars, and the government forgives his debt when he defaults on his mortgage — you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.
If being stripped of your Constitutional right to defend yourself makes you more "safe" according to the government — you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.
You know the old saying: "If you can’t argue the facts – attack the messenger." No matter how subtle, polite, or obtuse one may be, a sarcasm laced passage is not arguing the facts, just the relative merits of the person.
Guess we are run by idiots. Never going to change. Join a union, cheat on your taxes, write off your daughter's birthday party and your wife's new Suburban as a business expense, deduct your new game room off your taxes, hire illegals and pay them off the books or hire legals as self contractors, pay no insurance, etc.
America is a free for all, do what you want, pay a minimal fine if you get caught. Profit...
Adults 65 and older will soon outnumber children for the first time in America's history, it has been revealed.
The US Census Bureau released new projections this year that showed the country's changing - and aging - demographics.
By 2030 all baby boomers will be older than age 65 and one in every five Americans will be retirement age.
The Census Bureau said that deaths will 'rise substantially' between 2020 and 2050, meaning the country's population will naturally grow very slowly.
Projections also revealed that America will become more racially and ethnically diverse, with the country's share of mixed-race children set to double.
The non-Hispanic White-alone population is projected to shrink from 199 million in 2020 to 179 million in 2060.
Meanwhile, the 'Two or More Races' population will be the fastest growing over the next several decades.
While the projections did touch on race, this time the Census Bureau did not mention when white Americans will fall below half the population.
'It was just us getting back to sticking to data,' a Bureau spokesman told the New York Times.
The Census Bureau made headlines in 2008 when it projected that non-Hispanic whites would drop below half the population by 2042.
And three years ago the Bureau released a new graphic that showed white Americans would lost their majority status by 2044.
Many academics criticized how the Bureau was presenting its data, fearing it could stoke white nationalism.
Former Census Bureau director Kenneth Prewitt was so concerned by the graphic that he organized a meeting with the chief US statistician.
'Statistics are powerful,' Prewitt said. 'They are a description of who we were as a country.'
'If you say majority-minority, that becomes a huge fact in the national discourse.'
A 2014 study also found that white Americans who were assigned to read about the changing demographic were more likely to report negative feelings toward racial minorities.
So story time...since we are talking about Corey Booker
I was working on a job in Newark that Corey Booker visited as part of his campaign or whatever, don't really know why he visited honestly, but that's not important to the story. Well, this turd walk out of the building and directly into wet concrete the workers were laying and literally lost his shoes. He immediately demanded his security team got him new shoes like they were his servants and left without even saying sorry to the workers for messing up their concrete, he actually berated the workers....moral of the story.... real great guy to support SD!
(This IS a true story)
SD said:
"You know the old saying: "If you can’t argue the facts – attack the messenger."
Yes- you do this all the time with news sources that oppose your predetermined view.
Dodgebaal said:
"Repukes and Democraps urinate on each other."
HAHA!!! Good one!
"The 2 party system is worthless. The children suffer while the adults throw scat at each other."
...and cash their big checks, pocket their bribes, get gold-plated healthcare, and set themselves up for a lifetime of ease.
George Washington warned us to not develop political parties. He knew. From the very beginning.
"However [political parties] may now and then answer popular ends, they are likely in the course of time and things, to become potent engines, by which cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men will be enabled to subvert the power of the people and to usurp for themselves the reins of government, destroying afterwards the very engines which have lifted them to unjust dominion.
The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism. The disorders and miseries, which result, gradually incline the minds of men to seek security and repose in the absolute power of an individual; and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction, more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of Public Liberty
Without looking forward to an extremity of this kind, (which nevertheless ought not to be entirely out of sight,) the common and continual mischiefs of the spirit of party are sufficient to make it the interest and duty of a wise people to discourage and restrain it.
It serves always to distract the Public Councils, and enfeeble the Public Administration. It agitates the Community with ill-founded jealousies and false alarms; kindles the animosity of one part against another, foments occasionally riot and insurrection. It opens the door to foreign influence and corruption, which find a facilitated access to the government itself through the channels of party passions. Thus the policy and the will of one country are subjected to the policy and will of another.
There is an opinion, that parties in free countries are useful checks upon the administration of the Government, and serve to keep alive the spirit of Liberty. This within certain limits is probably true; and in Governments of a Monarchical cast, Patriotism may look with indulgence, if not with favor, upon the spirit of party. But in those of the popular character, in Governments purely elective, it is a spirit not to be encouraged. From their natural tendency, it is certain there will always be enough of that spirit for every salutary purpose. And, there being constant danger of excess, the effort ought to be, by force of public opinion, to mitigate and assuage it. A fire not to be quenched, it demands a uniform vigilance to prevent its bursting into a flame, lest, instead of warming, it should consume."
-George Washington, Farewell Adress, Saturday September 17, 1796
JR,
Good luck checking this govt. It can shoot you in the dark from 100 miles away. If you are on some form of social media, it knows who all of your friends are. There was a great show on this on Netflix called Terrorism Close Calls. In it, an Israeli operative is quoted as saying "If you ask me, and probably any other Israeli expert, what is the one measure that is more important than anything else? Intelligence, Intelligence, Intelligence. More data is being gathered on Americans now than at any other time in history. The Israelis know how to thwart any terrorism, including an uprising. If America gets to this point it is over.
George may have been right, but we are not fighting with muskets anymore. In another couple of years you might be stung to death by a mini drone in total darkness. Your AR or AK is useless then.
Welcome to the future.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CO6M2HsoIA
"Yes- you do this all the time with news sources that oppose your predetermined view." I'm sorry, but which "messenger" am I personally attacking? author, news sources, you? Got an example? I do realize whatever I accuse, I use, and that I do it faster, higher, and better. I got it. But this one is unclear.
Example??? LOL all over this thread. You don't have to scroll up far....
But GreyHawk has it right where you are concerned: "there are none so blind as those who refuse to see", AlternateRealityDanger
http://insider.foxnews.com/2018/11/26/illegal-immigrant-charged-death-texas-teacher-amanda-ferguson
Yet another death that could have been prevented. Bet the liberal media paid no attention to this...
"there are none so blind as those who refuse to see" WHAT....I can't hear you....
"all over this thread" Then it should be ez. I said I didn't understand WTH you meant so, "swing away Merrill, swing away."
"AlternateRealityDanger' what'd I say about when you can't intelligently discuss, you attack the personality? Thanks, LOL, you don't have to look far...…
"Bet the liberal media paid no attention to this..."
USA Today covered it
ABC/NBC TV and all other networks covered it on local news, Fox was local too
DailyMail UK covered it
How much we betting?
CHRISTMAS MAY COME EARLY FOR WARREN COUNTY GOPers!
Unarmed HUMAN BEINGS may be shot by American Military for merely seeking asylum!
Boy oh boy, ain’t General COWARD BONESPURS One tough cookie?
And the “other”67% is watching and will remember.
Maybe one of El Duche’s sons can come back from safari and stand ready ( before they report to the slammer).
Can’t make this stuff up....
"Can’t make this stuff up...."
Not without forgetting to take ones pysch meds anyway.... that's certainly what your post reads like LOL
SD find it for me on CNN's website. Nowhere to be found. You know the network of Jim Acosta who feel like they cover the truth....
Stymie go throw rocks at your local police and see how long before they take you down by force.
SD what the hell kind of post was that? Fighting with your alternate reality again?
https://youtu.be/T5AIpuAeAps
San Diego USBP Chief - vast majority are adult males push women and children to the front throwing rocks and assaulting agents. Majority don’t meet asylum qualifications.
Sorry, I was dealing with immetsure reality.
Let him without sin, cast the first stoner.
So Skippy, the first screening should return them as not applicable. Won’t even get to a judge.
Strange that we seem not to able to handle a crowd. Didn’t Trump order shoot-to-kill? No riot gear? Is this the same caravan? I thought it was still in the middle of Mexico.
Has anyone been processed?
Not sure which of the several caravans this is but the same agents under Obama did the SAME THING when attacked in 2013. But Orange Man bad.. we get it don’t let facts get in the way.
https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sdut-border-patrol-rock-throwing-san-ysidro-2013nov25-story,amp.html?__twitter_impression=true
No joke Skippy. But how about all those armed volunteers all amped up over the President’s political rhetoric. Did they hear the dog whistle? Time will tell.
First of all they have a standard ROE - he never issued a “shoot to kill order”. Most of the troops are not armed and his words are irrelevant to how the ROE works
https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2018/11/02/here-are-the-rules-of-engagement-for-troops-deploying-to-the-mexican-border/
Since you like song parodies - here’s a little Bonnie Tyler
Turn around
Every now and then I see a mother and child, but the rest of them are men
Turn around
Mexico offered you asylum but you thought you’d cross right over our border and then
Turn around
Every now and then I see some rocks get thrown by these peaceful migrants fleeing in fear
Turn around
Every now and then I see 6 year old kid with no shoes, a diaper on its rear!
And you have to go back tonight!
And you have to go back forever!
Because you do not have the right
To rush through our border together
And we’re only protecting our rights
And you’ll never belong
Together we protect our border, holding the line
Until that wall is built and we’ll watch it shine
You have to go back tonight!
Or the border will close up tight
Our border’s gonna close up tight
Once upon a time there was no caravan
And now we should be letting them win
Nothing you can say
We’re never letting them in!
Turn around migrants, Turn arouuuuund
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ocasio-cortez-compares-members-of-migrant-caravan-to-jews-fleeing-nazi-germany
Just the stupid things that come out of this woman's mouth are amazing... The liberals like to bash Trump when he misspeaks... You got one of your own who I guess doesn't realize Jews were thrown into furnaces and starved to death in camps. What a joke this woman is... We've reached a special kind of stupid with the voters in NY and NJ as well...
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/mueller-faces-new-complications-in-final-stretch-as-targets-balk-and-trump-turns-up-heat
This investigation is a joke if it's true they want Manafort to lie. Desperate Dems....
And you accepted that spew from that source? I mean they didn't even fact check Trump, they just run it..... $30M my sweet fat white a$$. Lying dog.
Mueller broke the deal because Manafort lies. Both have asked for immediate sentencing. You have to ask yourself:
1. why would Manafort lie to the FBI in a plea deal. Look it up as to the statistics on how rare this is. Everyone knows that if you break a plea deal you will face much harsher sentencing than if you went to court in the beginning.
2. IF you were to break such a deal, like Manafort did, why would he ever ask for immediate sentencing? In a hurry to go back to jail; hopeful that you might outlive your sentence (not) OR is Manafort expecting something else immediately after sentencing?
3. Manafort has lost all his money, now he is opting to lose his freedom too. Seems weird in that to get his freedom back, all he needs to do is tell the truth. Not like he's protecting his fortune or his reputation --- he's already guilty of many things.
At the same time, Jerome Corsi, has turned down a plea he was in process of accepting. He too, caught red handed, has opted to face the music. Makes one wonder about the encore.
Time will tell why these boys suddenly got a stiff upper lip but I really doubt Manafort has signed up for a life sentence.
And I certainly doubt any source that accepts Trump communiques as gospel. The man lies all the time. He only lies. I am not sure he has ever told the truth.
GM closing plants in Michigan and Ohio- 15K+ jobs lost. Additional job losses will ripple through these communities.
Will the Coward in Chief make up for these losses with additional coal jobs?
HARDY-HAR-HAR!!!!
As the stock market teeters and the deficit spirals out of control.
And how long should I wait for that 10% middle class tax cut???
Feeling had yet Warren County GOP’ers???
https://www.businessinsider.com/how-much-does-russia-investigation-cost-robert-mueller-2018-5
"The DOJ said $6.7 million was spent in the first 4 1/2 months of the investigation, which began in May 2017. Another $10 million was spent within a six-month period between October 2017 and March 2018"
that's 16.7 M
With that burn rate being primarily salaries and other fixed costs - it is reasonable to speculate that another 10M was spent between April 2018 and October.. So were looking pretty damn close to $30 M - and that is just direct costs.
Manaforts assets come in at more than $30m so it's pretty much a wash.
Bush, Clinton and Reagan all had one or more special investigations running against them for multiple years. They let it run its course, and got out fine - I wouldn't get too excited SD. this is going to go on until 2024.
"The economy added 3.2 million jobs, unemployment fell to the lowest level in 18 years, and the number of job openings grew larger than the number of job-seekers for the first time on record."
Hmmm.... 3.2 million - 15,000 = 3.185 million net jobs created.
I'll take it.
But, but.....
The deficit continues to spiral.
Tax cuts were supposed to pay for themselves.
Spirals not when the country is in the grips of a historic recession- spirals at a time of “ full employment”.
And, and...wage increases equal or incrementally
outpace inflation.
So, what do future generations receive in exchange for the additional massive piling on of debt?
( you know- that 1.7 TRILLION DOLLAR gift to the top .00001%).
Put the glass pipe and think of a coherent response.
"GMs are junk cars..."
Uh, oh... watch out for Darrin, Metsman... them's fightin' words, lol.
"Put the glass pipe and think of a coherent response."
What, you can't do simple math?
You know what other presidents increased the deficit? (see pic; and Reagan isn't there only because he is dead).
And another hint: it goes WAY back further than that..
https://www.thebalance.com/deficit-by-president-what-budget-deficits-hide-3306151
No President has ever assumed this amount of debt and stupidly reduced the tax revenues simultaneously while engaging in a world-wide trade war and sheilding us from the real wars he has going in over a half dozen foreign nations.
Now the President’s men have taken to lying in exchange for a stiffer semtence than if they stayed silent and went to court to begin with.
And Skippy expects to roll on to 2024. OMG, the Trumpians amongst us. He must have been snoozing during the mid-terms. Can’t wait to hear his excuse if Trump can’t get his racist elected in Mississippi.
Wow, this is getting really crazy. As I have said, or surmised, or guessed, because who really knows: on one side you have Trump who has almost always slipped the noose, one way or another. That idea is in his DNA. He keeps thinking he will escape and will prosper like he has never prospered before.
You have Mueller the bulldog, who, IMO, has the stuff to prove Trump or Team Trump guilty but wants to protect the office of the President as would anyone who truly believes in the value of public service, the Constitution, and our country. I truly believe that Mueller would rather Trump just resign rather than put a feather in his own cap by taking him down publicly.
It now appears that Trump, Trump lawyers, had communication access to Manafort all during the plea process giving them perfect insight as to any Mueller/Manafort discussions. From the Manafort side, this is helping the person being investigated WHILE he promised to only help the DOJ. That may be illegal. Questionable legalities here from the Trump side too, over obstruction, plea for pardon issues, and even by the bar for Trump's lawyers indiscretions, and certainly not in the best interests of an investigation for America.
Then Manafort, for some reason, goes completely off the rails, and tries to lie his way through his plea bargain. He gets caught and should be facing really severe life-in-jail type penalties so why would he reject the plea? Did he not realize that even IF he gets a pardon, which given the discussions during his plea, seems less likely, he must realize that the State will just take over and put him back in jail anyway.
Meanwhile Corsi has also rejected working with the investigation and is fabricating the most odd stories how he really didn't know anything in advance and just divined that Podesta's emails would be next (Podesta would have been my guess: Podesta who?).
And so the beat goes on....or does it. Suddenly, out of no where, reporting comes out of UK that Manafort met Assange with timing to allow him to know about the stolen email leaks in advance, and even in time to organize the order and timing of distribution. This does not bode well as it puts Manafort directly in the crosshairs for owning the whole thing while letting Don off the hook. One has to wonder when it might dawn on Manafort that Don can just let him be the patsy and take the fall.
Corsi's own emails proving he and Roger Stone lied about how they DID know about things before they could know about it, unless they were colluding, at least with Assange over Clinton's and Podesta's emails.
My point: ask yourself, how do these things dribble out just when it looks like Mueller is drilling a dry well? I mean, he doesn't leak, does he? Makes you wonder that if Trump knows what Mueller knows, and if Trump sees how Mueller deals with Manafort, wouldn't you think --- if there was wrong doing --- that Trump could figure out the end game by now? It seems that Mueller keeps providing hints, keeps upping the game every time, and is proceeding at his own pace.
When it's all over, and when Trump is gone, will we all be able to laugh that the President was taken down over the dirty trick of printing actual emails? I mean what's really the harm of re-printing emails. I mean she said it, she wrote it, and someone read it. In the scheme of things, that's not exactly the worst dirty trick we have seen in our lifetimes. Hope we can all see that humor if it happens.
Yea ok SD keep dreaming.... you need to find better things to consume your time with. Trump isn't going anywhere. You don't know that these guys are lying. They were on Fox last night telling their side of the story. The one guy said he didn't recall an email at the time and then when it was shown to him it jogged his memory. Good luck proving he lied. People don't remember every detail of their life.... If that's all you got is guys being accused of lying because they don't recall details, then Mueller has nothing. There's zero evidence of Trump being involved with anything. Move on with your life.
Meanwhile what's being done at the border is nothing new. Obama did the same stuff shooting tear gas. There are videos of people throwing rocks and bottles at border agents. You need to take off your rose colored glasses. Most of these people won't be granted asylum and just use that as an excuse to escape into the illegal population since court dates could take years to materialize. I applaud Trump for doing something about this nonsense. It doesn't make him a racist, it makes him a strong leader.
As JR- the “Libertarian” continues to paddle down the De-Nile.
Libertarian?
...and I have a thousand acres of oceanfront property to sell you in Wisconsin.
"I see SD has the spin cycle on high today (everyday LOL)" You know I said that was a guess, an opinion. But yet again, you choose to attack the person. You can do better, can't you. At least you can try.
" You don't know that these guys are lying." Which guys? Are you actually saying Trump is not a liar? Really like to see you step into that one. Or even tell us he lies as much as the next guy; would love to see you commit to even that.
"There's zero evidence of Trump being involved with anything." You know, I think you're really on to something with this incredible belief of yours. I agree, there is ZERO evidence of Trump being involved with anything except Trump. How's that correction? Tell us, how do you define sheeple and are you there yet? Do you find yourself yelling "lock her up" upon command. Start salivating too?
"...and I have a thousand acres of oceanfront property to sell you in Wisconsin." Is this a global warming statement :>)
"As JR- the “Libertarian” continues to paddle down the De-Nile.
Libertarian?
...and I have a thousand acres of oceanfront property to sell you in Wisconsin."
You get that from me criticizing ALL presidents and BOTH parties? LOL You have a funny way of thinking there Stymie ol pal... some might even say an "alternate reality"... you and SD neighbors?
"You know I said that was a guess, an opinion."
As ALL your posts are, yet you continually tout them as "facts" or "truth"... that's (the majority of) HL's entire problem with your debate tactics.
"But yet again, you choose to attack the person."
Just like you attack news SOURCES but not their FACTS. Exactly. Glad you're learning.
You never attck the facts; I do quite often. With facts.
And yes, both Skippy and I note, not attack, but note the media bias and factual reporting metric for sources.
Perhaps you just feel your sources are attacked because they are often proven biased liars. Or just like Suze, no amount of sourcing or facts really matters to you.
But as I have said to you so many times, feel free to point out any misstatements or bad facts. Still waiting for something beyond your generalizations.
SD I'm not talking about Trump. But I'd love to hear all these thousands of lies... It's probably stupid crap no one cares about unlike the infamous "You can keep your doctor" line or "I did not have sexual relations with this woman"....
Oh dear. Someone got their panties in a wad. Funny how you refuse to accept the “facts” from any source other than those you approve of SD. Confirmation bias, like I said, Mr. Google.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/border-patrol-agent-appeared-to-be-ambushed-by-illegal-immigrants-bashed-with-rocks-before-death
Gee such poor asylum seekers... Give it a rest SD...
"Perhaps you just feel your sources are attacked because they are often proven biased liars. "
You mean like CNN has. Got it.
My sources aren't attacked... except by YOU. Because you apparently see ME as your nemesis. I'm flattered.
Funny you include Skippy WITH YOU in your "intellectual admission" of news sources being biased... I've only been saying that for a long time now, and psst.... me and Skippy, we actually think alot alike. ;)
Democrat Mantra 2000-2008 "It's Bush's fault!"
Democrat Mantra 2008-2016 "It's Bush's fault!"
Democrat Mantra 2016-20?? "It's Trump's fault!"
Democrat Mantra during next democrat president's term: "It's Trump's fault!"
...with alot of "Republican obstructionist congress!" thrown in for good measure... LOL
Suze, you’re all talk and zero proof.
JR; Again, I only print the assessment as to bias and lies as measured by Media Bias. If you feel your sources are attacked, you can review their metrics.
You and Skippy may agree, but think alot? Try Suze, her emotional rants and personal slurs are more in alignment with you.
And Suze, I have no issues with your facts if you ever get around to posting some.
Mets; goggle it. Not hard. And then find us the comparable 6,000 Obama lies. Can’t wait. Yet another response unanswerable.
Can’t believe you still stand by your man.
You got a source for those Obama excuses JR? Heh heh....
Thank you, SD. I take the JR comparison as a huge compliment as I consider him to be an intelligent person with common sense to boot.
As for you... I took a few minutes and looked over your posts here . Your sources most often: the Washington Post (left leaning) and CNN bwahaha! Just an embarrassment. Will they be sticking Anderson Cooper in a ditch again anytime soon?
Remember that facts aren’t static. They can change. That’s a fact.
SD go watch Obama on tour. He’s taking credit for everything Trump has done. He’s lying. What kind of lies did Trump tell that his inauguration crowd size was the biggest ever? Haven’t you watched the old comedy skits of Trump private citizen where they’d make fun of him for calling everything he builds fabulous and luxurious? The guy exaggerates. Did he say you can keep your doctor? No. Did he sleep with someone while President and lie about it? No. But yet those two guys are your heroes....
I can see where the alt right might find me to be in an alternate reality. The question is “who’s on first?”
Suze says: “Your sources most often: the Washington Post (left leaning) and CNN bwahaha! Just an embarrassment.” So, hating to be embarrassed, I looked.
Searching on CNN delivered our first notation. It’s JRs post: “ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, PBS.... so 1 of 6 MSM television outlets. 1 that leans right vs 5 that lean left... FAR left in some cases. Serious minority.” Hmmm, news outlet fetish or what…. Turns out NONE of these media sources leans “FAR left,” except to JR Possibly because he leans alt right, in a libertarian sort of way :>). In all cases these news sources are seen as leaning left-of-center. That’s one notch off top-dead-center. And they are all rated as highly factual sources, except CNN which gets a mixed factual rating. FOX, on the other hand, has a hard-right bias. That’s two notches off center and one notch away from Extreme Right Bias. Fox also has a mixed factual reporting metric. FYI – I accept mixed ratings but might look at other sources before proceeding. Especially from a far right or left organization.
Meanwhile, JR, Suze’s doppelganger, mentions CNN at least 50 times. Get a room already.
On to the postings: for CNN, Skippy posted 8 citations, SD-6 so not exactly a CNN powerhouse over the rabid right. Frankly, the alt right depends on CNN much more than I do (not Skippy, but the rest of you, even JR). For WAPO, actually I was surprised: SD was 14 times and Skippy 10 times. I was surprised in that much of WAPO is for pay, so funny we keep finding the free stuff. Yes, I use CNN and WAPO. The right uses them as much as I do. Even JR.
Suze, on the other hand, “you’re all talk and zero proof.” In over 30 opportunities, Suze cited one source: USA Today. She did however post these interesting “fun facts.”
“could be buddies with Kino Jimenez.” “if you’re over 15, you should be banned from using song lyrics to try and prove your point.” “Are you drunk this early in the morning” “This is right up your slimy alley” “most likely tabloid fodder like most of the garbage you post.” “It’s clear to see you are beyond TDS and are just completely insane.” “racist sexist much and agist?” “You are such a hypocrite” “supposed pro-feminism namby pamby types” “Of course the fact that a complete and utter nut job”
Your “facts” are not sourced, you are an emotional name caller, and if you decide to change, I would be glad to further the discussion with you. But not this way, if you don’t mind.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ex-trump-attorney-michael-cohen-pleads-guilty-to-lying-to-congress-in-russia-probe
This is what Cohen pleaded guilty to.... lying about an abandoned project to build a Trump tower in Russia... My god... WTF does this have to do with Russian collusion... It's as if Mueller is just setting up perjury traps to make all the stupid people out there believe Trump was part of some elaborate scheme... Sorry SD, your guy and his team full of Democrats are just trying to fool people with no common sense.
"Turns out NONE of these media sources leans “FAR left,” except to JR Possibly because he leans alt right, in a libertarian sort of way :>). In all cases these news sources are seen as leaning left-of-center. That’s one notch off top-dead-center. And they are all rated as highly factual sources, except CNN which gets a mixed factual rating. FOX, on the other hand, has a hard-right bias. That’s two notches off center and one notch away from Extreme Right Bias. Fox also has a mixed factual reporting metric. FYI – I accept mixed ratings but might look at other sources before proceeding. Especially from a far right or left organization. "
Perception is an amazing thing.
"and if you decide to change, I would be glad to further the discussion with you. But not this way, if you don’t mind."
Actually, SD, I don't think ANYONE would mind you not addressing them! LOL
Your "brand" of debate and "fact" has worn very thin. It's like the boy who cried wolf... we've heard it so much, most don't listen anymore. You know, like CNN (just look at their ratings! LOL)
How is Fox a far right news source?! I don’t see them supporting racism or white supremacy… Guys like Tucker Carlson are actually very common sense oriented. Don Lemon and others on CNN basically call groups of people racists any chance they get. Chris Cuomo recently called people who don’t want illegals jumping the border unchristian-like. You hear the same nonsense on MSNBC. That’s why Fox ratings are better than those 2 networks combined… People are tired of listening to BS like that. And sadly SD, you’re exactly like the anchors on those networks.
Right JR. The delivery and presentation is just as important as the information being shared.
Speaking of SD style presentation, did you read about The Guardian’s article claiming Manafort visited Assange in the past, of course throwing in the Russians for good measure? What a sickness we have if we are excpected to believe these stories at face value without supporting facts.
Here’s a decent retort by The Intercept summarizeing all the questions that should be asked, also mentioning that The Guarduan probably doesn’t care as along as the desired *impression* is made. Crazy times we are in...
https://theintercept.com/2018/11/27/it-is-possible-paul-manafort-visited-julian-assange-if-true-there-should-be-ample-video-and-other-evidence-showing-this/
I would be elated for you to never address me again, SD. Most recently on the Tax Payer for Illegals thread I answered an opinion question and you emotionally attacker’s me for my answer as you’re often prone to do. I’ve neither the time nor inclination to go back and read your ridiculous childish rants. Again, I thank you for the comparison to JR, and very happy to no longer engage with you.
"Did he say you can keep your doctor? No."
Well, he did tell people in Ohio last year that their autoworker jobs were "all coming back". That turned out to be a whopper of a lie.
"Perception is an amazing thing" Spin this... https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/methodology/ You don't even look before you spew, do you? You just know it all, damn the research, darn those facts.....
Or just continue to bay at the moon, whine about not being able to take the heat, and Hillary. Always Hillary.
"Actually, SD, I don't think ANYONE would mind you not addressing them! LOL" Perhaps your friends.....but ANYONE? Wow, what do I do with my fan mail?
But keep not responding, I am all for that. Or if you just stop with the unsourced, make-believe, we can save 50% of your rhetoric, 99% for Suze..... Only Skippy takes a shot at legit fact-based discussion. Most of the rest --- empty hats.
Today it's determined Trump working Russia deal deep into 2017 and well after stating "I have no business dealings with Russia." Another exaggeration perhaps. Or just another bald faced lie.
Yet Mets says his King lies as much as my heros --- Clinton and Obama. Of course, he has no facts, empty hat. Here are mine: 6,400 as of the start of November, but it's been a busy month for lies.... https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/trump-claims-database/?utm_term=.3e10f4b1bd97
You can search by date, topic, and source.
Let me know when you post the same for Obama and Clinton...…. There's that Met's factual silence...…...again...…
"It's as if Mueller is just setting up perjury traps to make all the stupid people out there believe Trump was part of some elaborate scheme..." I just love this one. What is a perjury trap? Got an example? Hey, I know a fool proof way for Trump to avoid these perjury traps...…..the truth.... Can't wait for you to not show us what you don't know on this one.
" Your "brand" of debate and "fact" has worn very thin." I bet it has. The truth can be very tiring for some. Especially Trumpers who exist on a steady diet of "exaggerations." Hey, it wasn't a surprise now was it?
Hold on that isn't a lie, GM just pulled a fast one. And their product also sucks. He tweeted about taking away any money the government is giving them as backlash.
Just curious SD, but you do understand that the “bias” scale you were commenting about is directly proportional to the desires of those outlet’s target audiences, right? Gotta get people to watch before you can sell them something... Anyway, left, middle, right - the news is tailored, aka spun, depending on the attention span of the audience.
Hit the heart strings and you’ll get the left learners. Hit the govt-is-out-to-take-from-you strings and you’ll get the right learners. It’s not rocket science.
Ever take a business marketing course? Does every company lie in its marketing strategy, or do they find ways to manipulate the “truth” to fit their narrative, mostly by leaving out facts that would work against their goal? Following your logic, only the companies *you* are biased toward tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, while every other company outright lies.
Bottom line is this: Facts without context, without perspective, are complete BS. The bigger picture should always be included when drawing any conclusion.
"Hold on that isn't a lie, GM just pulled a fast one."
It's the exact same thing the insurance companies pulled on Obama, yet that's always your go-to when you need to point out something he "lied" about.
Can't have it both ways... it's either an example of an egregious lie by Trump or you need to quit playing the "keep your doctor" card.
"factual reporting metric" - I call BS on this, who makes these arbitrary determinations and what bias do they bring to the table? Who checks the fact checkers?
"When determining bias, there isn’t any true scientific formula that is 100% objective. There are objective measures that can be calculated, but ultimately there will be some degree of subjective judgement to determine these. On each page we have put up a scale with a yellow dot that shows the degree of bias for each source. "
They state this with a straight face while not allowing for their own predetermined bias that they bring to their own subjective ratings. It's junk science with a heavy does of personal opinion thrown in.
I have included a pic from Sharyl Atkinson which has major differences in the rating of these news sources, you will note that NPR leans hard left and/or far left.
Yea um sorry ianimal but GM is the only car manufacturer doing this. Maybe it’s just a matter of their product sucks and they’re losing money. Obama saying you can keep your doctor and then it doesn’t happen, he was talking out of his ass… He had to of known it was BS. Then the guy has been going around saying the current economy is his not Trumps… The guy blamed Bush for all the bad stuff during his two terms and now takes credit for the bolster in the economy that’s going on with Trump… He goes around bragging his administration had no indictments…. Yea um maybe because it was corrupt and pandered to him and cleared Hillary when at the very least she should have been indicted for destroying evidence and obstructing. Those Obama holdovers are the ones that kicked off the Mueller investigation with a fake Russian Dossier. Sorry… That’s bigger lying than Trump has done. Trump lying about crowd size is just dumb and exaggerative. Those are the types of lies he says which are just childish and most normal people brush off. If you listen to CNN and MSNBC and the other liberal networks, according to them he’s always lying. When I hear him speak, I don’t see it. I just see the stupid stuff that he exaggerates about. They say he’s lying about the caravans…. Uh no he isn’t. There are a lot of bad people mixed in. Who the hell throws rocks and bottles at border agents if their intent is to seek asylum? Who carries around their countries flag trying to get into the US if that country is so bad? Most of these people don’t qualify for asylum. Seeking jobs and prosperity is not grounds for asylum. Get in line like everyone else…. No instead they make their fake claims and then take off before their hearing takes place. Great system….
You spin me right round baby right round
Like strangerdanger baby right round round round
You spin me right round baby right round
Like mrgoogle baby right round round round
So if your spin is to the left of CNN, with some predrawn conclusions, alternate reality, and conspiracy theories added... where do you sit on the bias scale?
Excellent point JIT. Reminded me of a time several years ago when I interviewed at a PBS Station. The woman I met with spoke about how, as a public broadcasting system without commercials their news and programming did not have to reflect advertising dollars and what advertisers want. Therefore, unlike network news that use advertisers they don’t have to placate them which obviously CNN MSNBC and Fox etc. all have to do
JR, keep baying and yelling your names at the moon; I'll get back to you when you start talking issues and actually source some evidence. Oh right, can't take that heat....
Greyhawk: I posted their methodology above. A number of us have been using this source. Love to hear your review of that. Your version is interesting, but I see no methodology. And, of course, bias is subjective. Agreed on the obvious, that's why I listed the methodology. You can claim BS, but should take a look first perhaps.
"Bottom line is this: Facts without context, without perspective, are complete BS. The bigger picture should always be included when drawing any conclusion." You mean a pound is a pound the world around is complete BS? Facts without context are complete BS. Well, Suze loves that, but me......not so much so. I mean it's like you are begging for some spin......
I think you should always point out lies, exaggerations, manipulations and the like. I am waiting for you, and many others here, on that one. Lots of complaints, little evidence. As many have said, you can have your own opinions, but you can't have your own facts. In this imperfect world, we may never have enough facts for you on any subject. We may have too many facts, but facts are facts, and spin is the weaving of facts, hopefully honestly and fair. Yet we all bring emotion, we all bring bias, we all bring baggage, we all spin as we try to weave individual facts into a tapestry of understanding. And everyone will have their own tapestry even if they use the same facts.
Point is that spin is the art of weaving facts into a compelling story. It can be evil propaganda, it can be clownish, it can be compelling. Our job as readers is to not kill the spin because you will never kill the spin. Our jobs as readers is to critically assess said story, evaluative said story and bring new facts to the discussion in order to steer the spin towards your own compelling story. In a perfect world, as some point we will agree as to the final chapter.
As that's what's often missing here. We skip the discussion and jump to belittling, name calling, and a complete lack of a substantive, fact-based discussion.
Example (finger points..) "Hold on that isn't a lie (conclusion, no facts), GM just pulled a fast one (assumption, no facts) And their product also sucks (opinion). He tweeted about taking away any money the government is giving them as backlash (a rationalizing guess --- spin). Pretty obviously a fact-less spin piece.
So, yeah, good companies spin well and we ultimately vote the truth of their spin with our wallets. "Brand New" in a star cluster in the upper corner of the box never sold anyone and $9.99 is hardly ever seen as 9. Nude body outlines in ice cubes never got someone to buy their whiskey. News outlets have been for profit from the beginning, they have spun for profit, for politics, for power, and for personality (fancy alliteration, eh...). We spun our way into a Revolution, we spun our way out of Vietnam. Our job is to critically assess what we read, like you did in the Manafort/Assange story and we, together, move the discussion forward.
Or we can whine and call each other names like "baby" as we decide to disagree before we even know what the discussion is about.
this quote is from your biased, slanted ranking site, its a copy and paste from their own page
"When determining bias, there isn’t any true scientific formula that is 100% objective. There are objective measures that can be calculated, but ultimately there will be some degree of subjective judgement to determine these. On each page we have put up a scale with a yellow dot that shows the degree of bias for each source. "
Your biased news ranking site states this with a straight face while not allowing for their own predetermined bias that they bring to their own subjective ratings. It's junk science with a heavy dose of theirs (and yours apparently) personal opinion thrown in.
I call BS on these junk science sites, their determinations are subject to the vagaries of their own musings.
Who checks these so called 'fact checkers' ? It's all so much donkey dust.
Real truth is in the eye of beholder, this is still true today, and is why those long lists of 'lies' from the likes of the ultra-liberal NYTs is looked at with a jaundiced eye by so many, because the determination of just what is a lie is subjective. Obama told a lot of lies just yesterday and he gets a pass because the NYTs doesn't think covering or listing his lies is newsworthy, it's all so subjective it's laughable on the surface. So you have to consider the source when these lists come out and are touted as 'truth'. Maybe you should reflect a little deeper on your own personal bias used to obsessively trumpet this subjective BS all the time,
Seriously SD? even a blind man could see the JR was posting song lyrics.....hmmmm wonder who else always does that on this forum???
Yet again I find it very hypocritical that you have a problem when people do exactly what you do to everyone else.......
In case you need to GOOGLE it........
https://www.google.com/search?q=You+spin+me+right+round+baby+right+round&oq=You+spin+me+right+round+baby+right+round&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i64.247j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Thanks, Greyhawk. I was referring to a PBS channel from NY. Don’t know if we got wires crossed. Not NPR.
I don’t doubt NPR is far left biased.
Guess tRUMP’s Mama never taught him that “ when you lie with dogs you get fleas”.
Yes, character matters.
Yeah, yeah, I know he didn’t no nothin’ they’re out to get him...yada yada yada....
Let’s see you tRUMP groupies spin your way out of his tax returns- “Coming soon to a theater near you”!!
HarHarHar
" Position on the chart doesn’t necessarily imply credibility or lack thereof. Sources on far right and far left have, in many instances, produced excellent, factually correct information at times. " - - - - Sharyl Attkisson
Greyhawk,
yes... that's what people need to understand; ALL news sources are important.... and ALL are right (and wrong) sometimes. To dismiss a news source because it doesn't agree with your pre-conceived "truth" is to literally not WANT the truth. That's a hurdle alot of people can't seem to get over. Which is one of the main problems with American politics today, too many people believing what they are told, not thinking critically for themselves, and being led along by their noses... happily. But most American are all about CONVENIENCE... "yes, please tell me what to think and feel, so I won't have to figure it out for myself... that's too much work."
This is why political discussion in today's America has turned into a feeding frenzy of "I'm-right-you're-wrong", "I disagree with you, therefore I hate you", and "MY side must win at all costs, ends justify the means.... whatever it takes, because WINNING is more important than the truth."
And I don't see it getting any better any time soon. What it has done is shut down political discussion between friends and family. And that's never a good thing.
Oops, Trump was trying to broker a deal in Russia, working with Russians, working with Russian government types, types who report to Putin, deep into 2017 when he “exaggerated” that fact to you as well in order to get your vote.
I just love his retort: “well, if I did it, it’s OK, because I didn’t do anything wrong.”
I just don’t see how this man could ever be caught in a perjury trap. He can’t even figure out whether he did something or not.
Would the election have changed if he had told a truth? Where do you draw the line? .
Come on, tell us how Obama did worse. Tell us how Uranium One was worse for President Hillary.
Don’s bank, the only one willing to do business with him for some strange reason, raided for money laundering....again. Wanna guess with who? Small world.
The nothing burgers pile up as Trump’s lawyer for 30 years, a stupid, weak, idiot, according to Trump, that once “did me a favor,” pleads guilty, implicates Trump as co-consprator, and turns to being state’s witness for Mueller
If it’s Friday, it’s Mueller time. Gonna be a hot one, drink up my little Trumpets.
JR said - "To dismiss a news source because it doesn't agree with your pre-conceived "truth" is to literally not WANT the truth"
+1 agreed, good point
Trump signs trade deal that is 100% new name, 90% NAFTA in reality, to replace NAFTA, “the worst trade deal in history.” Apparently not.
Trumpet’s laud new deal as vastly superior because it has that “brand new” sticker in the upper corner of the box. Deal to take effect in 2020 because, hey, what’s the hurry to teplace “the worst deal ever.” No worries. Except GM blames Trump’s deal, Trump’s tarriffs, for their 5 plant closures and 15% layoffs. MAGA.
I know that channel Suze (WLIW ) and thanks for agreeing with me that NPR (and WNET) are both far left of center. Not even a question about them being in the middle anymore,
Yes, Greyhawk, those definitely are. And despite PBS not having advertisers as such they take sponsors and donations which dictates their biases. Absolutely left leaning. Just look at Sesame Street!
Without getting into an argument about bias, PBS and NPR are very good sources of news, about as good as it gets in this imperfect world, IMO.
I do think PBS news is a more neutral source than most but still lean to the left. NPR not so much.
I should clarify that I don’t think NPR is neutral. Looking at Greywolf’s chart it’s quite worrisome how most media is left leaning. How do we get a balanced viewpoint? Very little available.
"How do we get a balanced viewpoint? Very little available."
Suze, the best we can do is read many sources, biased or not, then put the "facts" together for ourselves... Also, the more you learn about geopolitics over the years, as well as the standard media knee-jerk/sensationalism, you start to know what's BS and what's at least partially true. It's why so many people are more than happy to just be TOLD what to think and feel; it's easier. It's alot of work to learn politics and the game the play, to learn it's not really about the good of the country as much as it's about "how can we use this to better OUR (democrat, republican) cause & get re-elected.
The New York Times for decades was always considered a "reliable" source to the left; but in recent months, I've posted NYT articles that showed the left wrong on several things; now, for a left-leaning source (ore even if they were a neutral source) to come out and admit the left is going too far... well... there's got to be some truth there. Ditto for right-leaning sources.
I try to ignore (as much as I can) the partisan knee-jerk hate and pre-drawn conclusions, and wait for ALL the data before proceeding ... that's how you find out the truth. A good example just happened to me yesterday. There was an NBC story about how the VA said they were not going to pay vets what they owed them (that's the short version)... well, of course here come the lefties "It's Trump's fault! He doesn't care about anyone but himself! Blah Blah Blah." Now- NOBODY wants vets shorted, I don't care what party you are in. But these people immediately turned it into a "Trump's fault!" party. I suggested the wait and see what happens, since the news story was released only hours prior. "No! We won't wait! Trump is a monster! I can't believe you're defending him!" I'm not defending anybody. I'd simply like to wait to see how this develops.... you've got to give them a CHANCE to look into it. "Trump lover! You're blind! He hates vets! etc etc etc".....
24 hours later, same news source: both parties of Congress applied pressure to the VA, who then backtracked and said they would indeed pay what was owed.
So some of this "finding the truth" game takes time... at least a little! Don't let anyone break a news story and then come up with their biased, pre-drawn conclusions. But that's politics, and media, and partisanship these days:
Thurs:
VA says it can't/won't repay money owed to vets.
Trump's fault! He's an a-hole! Impeach! He's ruining our country! He doesn't care about vets!
=non-truth, conjecture, hate, emotions guiding thought, and confirmation bias
Fri:
After both parties applied pressure, VA backtracks, WILL pay vets what is owned them.
TRUTH.
I even had one of them, after I showed them the following day's story, about BOTH parties being on the same page, their reply was "really? And who's in Congress? More Dems. LOL" Like, WOW- now we're moving from confirmation bias into reality denial.
1) Congress has a republican majority.
2) The dems WILL have the majority, but not until 2019.
3) Just as I said, and NBC verified, BOTH parties got involved, not ONLY democrats.
Sorry, I sort of sidetracked from media bias into reality denial LOL. BUT: the heavy media bias is a large reason WHY we have reality denial, confirmation bias, and heavy partisanship.
When a story breaks, like the Cohen story... this morning, I went to Fox News. Not a word about Cohen on their front page. Then I went to CNN. ALL Cohen on their front page! So, rest assured, the TRUTH lies somewhere in the middle. Where? We won't know until we know (if he's convicted or sings or whatever), but RIGHT NOW, no one knows much of anything, yet the left acts like "we got him! Ha! Impeachment Blvd, baby!!!"
It would actually be quite humorous, if it weren't so blatantly stupid.
“Remember that facts aren’t static. They can change. That’s a fact.”
That’s a view of the world that seems worth discussing. I say facts cannot change, but that the truth changes all the time. IOW, as new facts come to the table, our view, or our truth, can change. This is more likely in history and the softer sciences than in hard science and math because bias comes into play and the process to gain repeatable results impossible.
The world is flat, the world is round. How could that fact change?
Well, really, the truth was always in front of them, they just picked the wrong fact to create their truth. The right facts were always right there. Different seasons, different stars, different sunsets at the same time at different points on the map would be enough repeatable observations that the Earth is not flat. The “facts” behind a flat Earth were not wrong. It’s just that new facts came to the table that did not change those facts, it changed the truth. All of these facts were always there, they are static, they did not change. Our truth, our picture of the world did.
Scientific facts are repeatable observations. Historical facts have a much more slippery slope in that not only does our “history truths” change over time, but it readily appears that the facts do to because of bias.
Slavery is bad delivered a completely different set of facts than slavery is good and perhaps in a non-repeatable form. I contend that, if a historical fact changes, it was not a fact to begin with and that bias has come into play falsifying the fact. IOW, it was not a fact, but a lie.
Much harder to separate the wheat from the chaff in the “softer sciences” like history or politics. Even in science, bias can come into play. Ask the Church about Copernicus and Galileo or ask Trump about environmental scientists. For me, the concept of facts is pretty much resolute in most sciences but a little squishier in the softer subjects, like history or politics, where bias comes more into play and you can’t have repeatable observations.
I wouldn’t say the facts aren’t static, I would say it’s our biases that change over time.
Excellent advice, JR. I do try to read Different sources both in print and online. Truth is I don’t trust anyone anymore. Or I trust very little.
Sorry for calling you Greywolf, Greyhawk that’s autocorrect for you.
SD, remember you weren’t going to communicate with me? I would appreciate you be a man and keep your word. I no longer intend to reply to you and/or regarding your posts. You “debate” and discuss in a manner which I do not want to be involved with. Thank you.
JR , one of your better posts, yeah its long, but it's spot on, thanks for taking the time to detail it all out, you make some powerful points there
Suze, no worries about the name, it's all good and i agree with you that its hard to know who to trust which is why we gather data from a variety of sources and it's up to each one of us to separate the wheat from the chaff to determine what is true.
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/New-Jersey-to-Restrict-How-Local-Law-Enforcement-Works-With-ICE-501678601.html
Get ready for more raids due to the new AGs order
“Unless granted permission by the state attorney general, however, law enforcement agencies are also prevented from entering into or renewing Section 287(g) agreements with federal authorities, which allow state local agencies to enforce federal civil immigration laws.
Officers also cannot stop, question, arrest, search, or detain a person simply because they believe that person may be undocumented.”
“"factual reporting metric" - I call BS on this, who makes these arbitrary determinations and what bias do they bring to the table? Who checks the fact checkers?” he says, hawkishly….
I point, for the third time, to the “methodology” which said: "When determining bias, there isn’t any true scientific formula that is 100% objective. There are objective measures that can be calculated, but ultimately there will be some degree of subjective judgement to determine these.” No duh. The hawk claims: “It's junk science with a heavy dose (sic) of personal opinion thrown in.” Pages of methodology follow, there is a process for anyone to comment, add corrections, and facts are checked by a slew of fact checking organizations if the Hawk had just continued to read.....
Each media outlet assessed has an analysis as to the results. Without reading the full methodology, the hawk comes back: “I call BS on these junk science sites"
Hawk posts the Sharyl Attkisson media chart. This is the fake news chart that launched Trump’s Google fake vendetta that withered on the fact vine. Brilliant! The Hawk notes: “"Position on the chart doesn’t necessarily imply credibility or lack thereof. Sources on far right and far left have, in many instances, produced excellent, factually correct information at times. " - - - - Sharyl Attkisson.” Technically, the chart only provides a “measure” for left or right bias, it attempts zero metrics for either credibility or level of factual reporting. None.
Sharyl Attkisson is a journalist turned right-wing talking head; her chart probably started here: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/how-biased-is-your-news-source-you-probably-wont-agree-with-this-chart-2018-02-28
It’s not really a chart, but an illustration. It’s a mash-up from three different sources and the author: The Pew Research Center, Lorain County Community College media list, and your feedback. The LCCC list probably came from a list from Santa Rosa JR College. Says Attkisson: “The placement is based on perceived overall tone and audience. Position on the chart doesn’t necessarily imply credibility or lack thereof.” Overall tone and audience sure sounds subjective to me. Left/right bias is determined by who tunes in. Shoot, that makes me a tighty righty :>)
The y axis has no measurement except “I have loosely placed more traditional information sources in the top half of the chart working down toward aggregators, fact-checkers, opinion sites and less news-related sources. (This posed some position challenges since most of traditional information sources are left-leaning.)”The x axis also has no measurement besides left or right so saying xxx is this much farther right than zzz is pretty much a crap shoot. If you have a long enough name, you can cover more bias ground…..
But the most important part Hawk science: “Compiling such a chart is obviously difficult for many reasons, some of them having to do with space. The spacing should be considered relative and not an indicator of absolute position. A number of the information sources technically belong on top of one another.” Bwhaaaaaat??? Admitting that placement does not matter…. Admitting sources are in the wrong place… Incredible. In other words, placement is more about real estate than it is about measurement. It’s a picture, an illustration depicting a list from a Community College. God Bless capitalism.
She lists her three top alternative for this type of information. It’s journalism.org, Infowars. Com and mediabiasfactcheck.com
Hawk concludes: “Real truth is in the eye of beholder, this is still true today, and is why those long lists of 'lies.' And then he, JR, and she-who-will-not-be-named begin to rate different media sources themselves fa la la, fa la la…. Mission accomplished.
Nope. Not me. I will read anything legitimate, right or left, but if it’s far right or left, or mixed factual reporting, I read with a huge grain of salt. If it’s extreme bias, right or left, or low or very low factual reporting, I am sorry JR, I will pass. Life is too short. And as much as I value your, she-who-can’t-be-shamed, and the Hawk’s opinion picking the bias and factual nature of different leftist outlets, I am sticking with mediabiasfactcheck.com to cover both sides until the Hawk can actually PROVE a better source or actually disproves the methodology posted beyond saying something that is subjective, is, after all, subjective…..
"Officers also cannot stop, question, arrest, search, or detain a person simply because they believe that person may be undocumented."
Well, while at first glance, "restricting how LE works with ICE" is certainly a bad idea... we all know "Murphy's New Jersey" would be a sanctuary state if that ahole got his way.... I have to say, I agree with the above quote pulled. Stopping someone because they "are mexican/Guatemalan/whatever" smacks of "show me your papers!" of Nazi Germany. I like liberty, and I don't think anyone should have to provide proof of anything...UNTIL they have committed a crime....
For example, a cop should not be able to pull anyone over and demand ID "just because"... that person would need to have sped, crossed the yellow line, not stop at a stop sign, etc... and that includes EVERYBODY. Now, if you do those those things, they have every right to stop you and ask for ID.
Similar: if a landscaper hires illegal workers, and one of THEM gets stopped for something like the above, and it is discovered they are illegal, deport them, investigate the business owner and his whole crew, and throw the book at the business owner.
Even tho being here illegally IS committing a crime, I am uncomfortable with asking people for ID "just because". That's not America. Which is why we need border security... none of this would be necessary if we actually CONTROLLED our borders. Wall/drone/camera/whatever that damn border!
Now, as far as the feds (ICE) themselves are concerned, I think they SHOULD be able to ask for proof of legality... because that is literally their job. They are actively seeking illegal immigrants. I have no problem with that. But they fry very large fish, usually- large businesses. They aren't walking down the street asking people for documentation, they already have suspicion/evidence of something illegal going on.
What was the story in Hackettstown not too long ago? Illegal mom & dad leaving a 6-year old at home alone all day or something? I forget how that got discovered, but in that case, if someone called the authorities (which I imagine to be local LE), they should NOT be restricted from telling ICE about the situation- that is stupidity and madness, but's exactly what the left is on the issue of immigration: stupid and mad. Thank God ICE was able to come and take care of that situation... AS IT SHOULD BE.
(IDK how that whole scenario went down, and if someone could refresh my memory, it would be greatly appreciated.)
I agree with you JR about the stops - I believe that refers to raids on job sites and “muster zones”. I have no problem with authorities rolling up and demanding to review everyone’s I9 and running the socials.
The only answer to this is fix our immigration laws, protect our borders (smartly, not a stupid wall), and end, once and for all time, the reason most come to American illegally ---- work under the table by working above the table...…
Anything else, like this decision, or even ICE raids, is just a band aid on a problem that will keep occurring as long as illegal can get work.
The problem is NJ has a lot of immigrants and a lot of illegal immigrants all living in the same communities. What you do to illegals effects the legal making our local law enforcement much more difficult and dangerous.
Illegal immigration is NOT a local responsibility, it is a Federal one, so asking for voluntary help, without providing additional resources, is hard both on a limited-resource basis, and by making local law enforcement more difficult and dangerous over a Federal issue.
So, thorny issue no matter which way you apply the band aid.
In New Jersey, E-Verify is voluntary for all employers, so you can guess the results. Donald Trump would support blindly hiring illegals here because it's "legal" not to check. There are over 820,000 small businesses alone in NJ, 10,452 use e-verify voluntarily.
Lance tried to float the bill to get mandatory e-verify. Call your state representative at the state level, Congress people at the Federal level. Demand mandatory e-verify for both IF you want to seriously curtail illegal, undocumented, workers and all the fu fa la that follows.
JR adds: “To dismiss a news source because it doesn't agree with your pre-conceived "truth" is to literally not WANT the truth.” This is his famous lament is to cover his frequent POS sources and blogs. We are supposed to dig through crap looking for the kernels of truth. No, JR, when your sources feature an extreme right bias combined with documented sketchy facts and blatant lies, I will not search for gems amongst your dirt. Please do that before you post so you can support your sources instead of flinging feces at the wall.
Quoted from Skippy's linked article: "Federal agents with Immigration and Customs Enforcement since April have conducted at least three major raids across New Jersey, arresting nearly 190 people suspected of being undocumented immigrants.
That followed a 12-month period during which ICE's Newark, New Jersey, field office increased its arrest rate 42 percent during fiscal year 2017, according to an analysis by the Pew Research Center.
Now, a day after New Jersey's attorney general announced new rules restricting local law enforcement officers' interaction with immigration agents, ICE is threatening even more raids.
A spokesman for the Newark office said in a statement Friday to NBC Philadelphia that New Jersey should expect increased arrests because of the new rules."
Thank goodness that ICE is stepping up to the plate here in NJ. It's a good thing that is sorely needed. The AG may have overstepped his authority, don't think he has the authority to order local police on how to do their jobs and clearly has overstepped telling them all not ot cooperate with ICE. Many local cops and county sheriffs will choose to become part of the resistance to extreme liberal unlawful overreach by Gov Murphy and the New Jersey attorney general. Good!
Last week In Mueller speak
- In court, Cohen admitted he and a group in Trump’s employ negotiated with top-ranking Russians for Trump Tower Moscow during the 2016 presidential campaign.
- In pleading guilty to lying to Congress, Cohen implicated Trump as a co-conspirator.
- In 2016, Trump denied all of this while Team Trump and Russia had open lines of communication via a secret communications backchannel
- Kushner was trying to create another backchannel for use after the election
- Putin knew of Trump’s lie and that he could, at any time, destroy his candidacy. Trump was compromised by a foreign adversary.
- In 2016 Trump neutered the Republican platform in regard to Russia, praised Putin multiple times, and responded publicly to Russian spy Maria Butina with “I would remove Russian sanctions.”
- Trump, in writing, told Mueller there were no dealings, no communications with Russia. Perjury trap?
- All of the recent Mueller actions were on hold until after the midterms and, more importantly, after Trump formally responded, in writing. Then the bricks began to fall
- Manafort plea deal goes down the tubes, Muller says he lies.
- Manafort's lawyers talking to Team Trump about Manafort’s confessions. Not illegal, but….
- Corsi rejects plea agreement which covers his/Stone’s/others contacts with Assange and his inside dealings over the emails. Claims his comments proving exactly that are pure braggadocio and that he divined that Podesta would be the other emailbox hacked. Good guess.
- Manafort reported to have met with Assange in London just before the email leak. As JIT noted, needs corroboration and funny that none has been found in the most highly surveilled city in the world, London, beyond anonymous sources at this time.
- Trump has not ruled out a pardon for anyone and these two boys, plus Stone gonna need one.
- After decades with Trump, Cohen got his own escape route.
"Now, a day after New Jersey's attorney general announced new rules restricting local law enforcement officers' interaction with immigration agents, ICE is threatening even more raids."
Actions have consequences, Gov. Murphy.
Coming up this week in Mueller time:
Mueller to release Manafort report this week on his specific lies; could be a barn burner as Trump reviews his own written responses against Manafort lies for consistency.
George Papadopoulos heads to jail for his two week stint
14 sealed indictments have hit DC court since September, a very high number
Flynn sentencing December 18, probably more info released in those docuements
Butina continues ongoing talks for her plea bargain
Ecuador continues taking actions that weaken Assange’s ability to remain
Stone expects to be indicted, so he says.
Sealed indictment pending for Assange.
Manafort, now Trump’s mole, is off the table but new charges will be pending if he does not try to relent
Corsi is likewise off the table, for now, so expect charges to be filed
New Jersey has one of the highest undocumented immigrant populations in the nation, with an estimated 500,000 people living without legal citizenship as of 2014, according to the Pew Research Center.
"New Jersey has one of the highest undocumented immigrant populations in the nation, with an estimated 500,000 people living without legal citizenship as of 2014, according to the Pew Research Center."
That's fantastic, now if we can get them "free" legal help, heck maybe Murphy can even figure out a way to get them on welfare, food stamps, and medicaid... New Jersey would be UTOPIA!
500,000 is nearly halfway to the total number of votes that won Murphy the election! Maybe if we can make NJ a sanctuary state, the democrats can rule it forever!
MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
A nation without borders is not a nation. A state that allows and protects illegal immigrants is a sanctuary state, period.
Worse, what’s a nation look like that picks and chooses which laws to enforce? Why bother with laws then? And what are the social consequences when the people realize only some laws are enforced for specific parts of the population? Not very “fair” in those cases, perhaps leading to some animosity? And societal divisions?
"And societal divisions?"
The swamp FEEDS OFF OF animosity and societal divisions. It's their job security.
Many PEOPLE feed off the same thing: it's their confirmation bias, it makes them think they have the righteous and moral high ground. They are "better than you."
And Americans (the majority who aren't on the radical ends, meaning most), are getting really tired of it. I'll say it for the umpteenth time: that is exactly how the unlikely candidate Donald Trump got elected.
IMO, America is more divided now than anytime since the MLK Jr. days. More divided than during the Vietnam War. And that's exactly how the republicrats (and in recent years, especially the CRATS) want it.
"Worse, what’s a nation look like that picks and chooses which laws to enforce?" Now, who wouldn't disagree with that generality? Can you be specific about what law NJ is violating? The one where, on their own dime, they need to VOLUNTARILY, not by force of law, but voluntarily support ICE efforts that make local law enforcement both more difficult and more dangerous? What law is that?
I am not saying I support Murphy and co. in this, I do understand the concept though.
"IMO, America is more divided now than anytime since the MLK Jr. days. More divided than during the Vietnam War. " I am just guessing that you were not alive then.....because IMO, not even close.
"and in recent years, especially the CRATS) want it." because you're a libertarian, right?
"A nation without borders is not a nation. A state that allows and protects illegal immigrants is a sanctuary state, period." Everyone agrees we need strong borders. It's just that some of us think your wall is stupid. Plus, your wall does nothing to solve the problem of DACA, undocumented and the like. And if we solve undocumented with e-verify, I am not sure we even really need to spend our dollars on cement since we will be down to drug runners and criminals, workers won't be crossing anymore.
If getting people legal aid or not raiding our local communities as if they the third-world banana republics you seem to imagine, change the Federal Law. That's where it starts, not with Murphy.
Hi folks! This is my first comment ever on Hackettstown Life. I read it from time to time and find it interesting and informative. However, after reading all this back and forth from Proud Liberal, I must comment. This poster’s thought processing is a big part of the problem in our Great Country! They call themselves “liberal”, but that is a gross misnomer. They are not liberal at all! They are closed-minded and attack anyone with opposing thoughts or ideas. They should at least listen to different opinions and consider what prompted them. I am an old conservative white guy, one of the latest targets of this misinformed group. I could go on and on, but sometimes feel that it is just futile. I just Pray that Socialists don’t gain control of our Country. God Bless America! 49er
49er 
Surprised Corsi ducked on theis one, seems pretty damning to me.
http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/documents/politics/draft-jerome-corsi-statement-of-offense/3324/
"The swamp FEEDS OFF OF animosity and societal divisions. It's their job security.
Many PEOPLE feed off the same thing: it's their confirmation bias, it makes them think they have the righteous and moral high ground. They are "better than you." " - - JR
+1, they sure do, too many think they are "better than you" , that they alone own the "righteous and moral high ground" . Very sad.
Scuse please....aren't you the swamp now? I thought you owned it all for the past two years.… I mean if JR's right, and he's very right, and the CRATS are the worser of the problem, what's your problem draining the swamp ---- you had all the power and two years..... Wouldn't draining the swamp and winning the mid-terms be job #1?
Whining winners, so sad. (ok, that's a name call; I own it.....but really....sign)
"I have nothing in Russia, I have no deals in Russia."
"Everyone knows about the deal, they know that I was dealing."
Do you think that if Putin had told the truth about this in 2016 instead of unleashing the Summer surprise of Hillary's emails that he would be President today. I realize you have to overlook it today in your partisan zealotry, but really, would you vote for a guy dealing dollars in secret with Putin while he solicited your vote?
When did Melania renounce her communist birthright?
Yes, I just love the “oh that Proud Liberal” and therefore all liberals are......
This proud liberal would of had a good chance of voting Jeb Bush if you hadn’t savaged him before trashing him. Put that in your open mind and spin it.
agree with you 49er, may God truly bless America, thanks for a good post, you are spot on correct.
Feeling open minded today?
Kremlin confirms emails that Trump making deals in Russia during 2916 election.
Makes you wonder why Russians choose to out Trump at this time. Are they done with him in the realization that Trump is impotent to kill the Obama sanctions.
Would Hillary have won if we knew Trump’s truth of 2016 in 2016.
If we didn’t know this one, then what else don’t we know?
“And Americans (the majority who aren't on the radical ends, meaning most), are getting really tired of it. I'll say it for the umpteenth time: that is exactly how the unlikely candidate Donald Trump got elected”
Nailed it, JR. So tiring and exactly why Trump got elected. I was a democrat until Obama ‘s second term. But that party is unrecognizable and certainly doesn’t represent me. Not to say the extreme right does either but no way can I support the leftist ideologies as they currently stand.
And welcome 49er. Nice post.
But would have Trump been elected if America had known the truth about his business dealings not only in Russia, but with powers in the Kremlin and the stolen emails had not been illegally leaked.
Sure seems like a case of rigged election to me.
Sure seems that many involved are either in jail or shortly heading that way.
Sure seems that we are now circling the inner circle, the family and that things will be heating up over the dinner table.
Sure seems that the Red Wall is wavering; getting hard to say "it's just business," or "it's totally legal," with a straight face anymore.
What else didn't we know in 2016. My take is we will never know, he will resign and that end is very near.
IMO, I expectt there's a very good chance that when Trump and Trump lawyers review the Manafort lies as detailed by Mueller next week and compare those, now publicized lies, against Trump's previously submitted written answers that a lightbulb will go off as to their futures.
I will say this for Mueller; his is organized and he is dropping the dominoes in a very determined fashion. Trump just can't take the hints and continues to believe he can bounce back one more time.
Now if he does resign over the Manafort lies being consistent with his stated truths, we may never know the details, for a few decades, what was in those written answers protecting the Office of the President from the slime that is the new swamp. IMO that is Mueller's goal.
I hear that from so many people Suze! when you say " I was a democrat until Obama ‘s second term. But that party is unrecognizable and certainly doesn’t represent me." It rings so very true for so many who have told me they regret voting for Obama and have switched. Thanks for ringing in with your perspective.
Past power players offering positive reminiscences
Of Pres. Bush has a multiplying effect on what an empty vessel now resides in the Oval.
Even his buddy Putin is crapping on him now.
Tired of winning yet????
Yeah, Greyhawk (and Suze)... what happened to the JFK democrat? EXTINCT!!! *I* would vote for JFK in today's world...
Why do you think a communist killed him. It had to be done to open the door for communism. Communism is alive and well, going strong and at full throttle.
Trump opened the door to communism when he married one, made billions off others, and rigged the election with some more.
Allegedly.
Wouldn’t you love to see his NJ membership list! Da!
"Why do you think a communist killed him. It had to be done to open the door for communism. Communism is alive and well, going strong and at full throttle."
Well, in that case, wouldn't they have killed Reagan? He ended (won) the Cold War...
" what happened to the JFK democrat? EXTINCT"
agreed, JFK was another honorable member of the greatest generation, today's democrats cant hold a candle to the likes of JFK and Harry Truman.
Cohen was Trump’s personal lawyer and fixer for over a decade. He lied to Congress about Trump’s business dealings in Russia with Kremlin officials. Wasn’t Don knowingly complicit in said lies? Didn’t Don do absolutely nothing as his lawyer lied away to Congress and America about his business dealings in Russia? Did Don not know what his company was doing in Russia?
You don’t mind that Trump lied to you about his business dealings in Russia, right?
We live in socially liberal times.
North Korea will meet with Trump early next year. Meanwhile, commercial Satellites have picked up over a dozen undeclared NK open-air missile sites; a new development since NK used to keep these underground. Mission Accomplished. Feel safer yet? Apparently SK military knew about these sites but the American public was shielded from the information by the Trump administration.
How many kids did we just adopt from the "Trump by-law-mandatory-forced-separation act which was immediately replaced by the by-law-not-separated act? Ans: more than 200 look to be retained. Having been stolen from their parents, should they become American citizens?
ABC fires liberal program executive Channing Dungey who cancelled both the Roseanne show and Last Man Standing :
"I canceled Last Man Standing for the same business and scheduling reasons that I canceled Dr. Ken, The Real O'Neals, The Catch and American Crime," ABC Entertainment president Channing Dungey told reporters Tuesday ahead of her upfront presentation to advertisers. "Last Man Standing was a challenging one for me because it was a steady performer in the ratings, but once we made the decision not to continue with comedies on Fridays, that was where we landed."
So cancelling popular money earning programs for the network actually results in management changes by the corporate parent, imagne that, decisions have consequences in the real world. In a television field chocked full of anti-Trump venom – form Saturday Night Live, to virtually every late night show, to news outlets like MSNBC and CNN – the last thing many Americans want is another Trump hate-fest.
Glad to see that ABC made the right move here for a change.
"the last thing many Americans want is another Trump hate-fest."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9q3QBnCnJbQ
Game on Tiny.
Mets: I keep getting fan mail, so someone beyond you is listening.
Sorry. But love the boycott. Keep it up. Silence is golden. Silence is acceptance. Glad to have you on board.
Greyhawk I can’t even begin to tell you how happy I am that ABC fires Dungey. Unfortunately it was too little too late after she destroyed Roseanne Barr for a joke taken out of context.
Money talks though and happily they are feeling the pain of loss of revenue.
Often the rigid right likes to scream that most of the fake news media sources are socialist lefties with a scant number of media sources available from the right. Well folks, social scientists have recently statistically determined the cause. We all know about the education shortfall of the rabid right nationalist movement, demographically speaking.
While Republicans hold their ground owning high school or less education levels, Blacks/illegals/poor/atheists/gays/Latinos/millennials have increased Democrat college graduation to 54% over the overwhelmingly white Repubs at 39%. Many Repub's, like over 10%, do try college but have to drop out.
On a post Grad level, thanks to Democrat's heightened minority status, Dems lead Pubs by a 60% to 30% margin. Undoubtedly, many of these are welfare Moms popping out voting babies while in school.
In studying the education effect on the partisan nature of media outlets, the fact that many Republicans lack advanced reading skills cuts deeply into the demand curve for news. Word of mouth, memes, and thumb-speaking are more in tune with this demographic. On the supply side, not being able to write effectively really hurts the numbers. Even if they could find readers, there are not enough rabid writers to fill the void. Just a typical case of market supply and demand. See above for examples :>)
Suze, she's the same addled PC correct liberal executive who cancelled 'Last man Standing' even though it was a ratings winner for ABC which ranks last in viewership among the top 4 broadcasters. And because of her poor decisions ABC is losing revenue and advertising dollars. Glad to see they made right decision here to fire her. There are rumors floating around around ABC corporate right now to bring Roseanne back to the Roseanne show as she is a ratings winner.
Gee ABC ratings suck. CNN ratings suck. These liberal stations should get a clue and realize America doesn't want to watch their liberal agendas.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/conservative-writer-corsi-files-complaint-against-mueller-alleges-bid-to-seek-false-testimony
Good for Corsi. Very brave of him to risk going to jail to fight back against this circus of an investigation. All Mueller's team of Democrats are doing is setting perjury traps for people because they have nothing else. This has got to be the biggest joke of an investigation in American history...
Wow, do you have an example fo any of these perjury traps you know are being placed?
If they have nothing, then why are so many people and companies indicted? What, are we up over 30 by now? Why are so many people in or on their way to jail? Why have so many pleaded guilty?
Seems to me that Team Trump is Team Crook, there are crooks everywhere and now Mets and Trump are whining about an investigating LED by a lifetime Republican, who was put in place by a lifetime Republican who was appointed by......wait for it, your TOP Republican who obviously is less than lifetime.
They lie to America, lie to Congress, lie to the court. They rip off our tax receipts for fancy trips, fancy offices, and other garbage they shouldn't steal. Trump charges us to security harden Trump Tower, Trump Mara Loser, Trump Bedminster Golf and more, and then spends weeks there with full entourage while the suckers pay and pay to gain access to him on the links or at lunch. We might be over $60M in Trump vacation dollars so far. Over 4 times Obama's rates which you lambasted vocally. No criticism now though, right?
The White House is for sale and open for business. And business is very, very good.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/census-confirms-63-percent-of-non-citizens-on-welfare-4-6-million-households
Yea lets just let more of them come on in. We're the ones paying for them.
Mets, "that's a lie" ROFL
Washington Examiner is biased right, so anything they say can't be trusted. LOL
Oh sorry I have to put on my rose colored glasses to read it properly. LOL... It really says illegals are the backbone of the country.... LMAO...
According to the AP news a Cleveland “Baby it’s cold outside”because it offends them list that’s the libtards ban anything they think is offensive.
CIS, who wrote this "report," is an extreme right wind hate group frequenting in extreme bias, blatant propaganda, and very little credible information.
It is a fake news outlet.
But let's look at what Mets and JR accept, hook, line and stinker. The conclusion:
"In a new analysis of the latest numbers, from 2014, 63 percent of non-citizens are using a welfare program, and it grows to 70 percent for those here 10 years or more, confirming another concern that once immigrants tap into welfare, they don’t get off it."
OK folks, we can't even accurately count how many illegals are here, but somehow NOW we can even tell who's on welfare by looking at census numbers. Do you really think non-citizens, especially illegal ones, are 100% forthcoming on this survey? I have traced my family's Census History since the late 1800's and am amazed how often they ducked the "country of origin" question. I can't imagine it's changed today.
But then, they say: "it grows to 70 percent for those here 10 years or more, confirming another concern that once immigrants tap into welfare, they don’t get off it." Confirming. Really. Or maybe they were off welfare for 9 years and only joined for the first time, in the year being studied.
Here's what CATO said last time: "The Center for Immigration Studies (CIS) released a new report this morning on immigrant welfare use. CIS found that immigrants use far more welfare than natives do. CIS’ methodology, parts of which are suspect, is what produced this result – as we’ve pointed out to CIS multiple times. They also omitted a lot of information that would make for a better comparison between immigrants and natives. Simply put, the CIS study does not compare apples to apples but rather apples to elephants." https://www.cato.org/blog/center-immigration-studies-exaggerates-immigrant-welfare-use
Why does Mets and JR love to source known Hate Groups? Is this the new Trump Nationalism in focus? https://www.mediamatters.org/research/2017/03/23/hate-groups-explanation-why-its-not-hate-group-exemplifies-why-its-hate-group/215796
HuffPo dubs Rudolph The Red-Nose Reindeer "Seriously problematic"
https://www.washingtonpost.com/arts-entertainment/2018/12/02/people-are-upset-about-rudolph-red-nosed-reindeer-heres-why/?utm_term=.0957d6968f27
Pretty soon there will be calls to ban "A Christmas Story" because little Ralphie gets a BB GUN. Or because he fought back against a bully with physical violence. OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Didn’t you see someone complained about Charlie Brown making Franklin sit on a deck chair. True. Idiots.
Anyone have the line on whether Flynn's sentencing memo documents will be sealed or not?
If not, it will be Mueller's next message of nasty activities from his first witch. The documents will include a description of "Flynn's evil deeds,' no doubt sending a broomstick up Trump's alley if made public. Expect much twittering.
Wow, it's only Tuesday and it's Mueller time!
Things are heating up. You guys gonna need a bigger hater's support group.
I saw this on the news....are we really raising our next generation to be that big of sissies?
Trump dumps on Cohen calling him weak, stupid and a liar. Didn't Cohen work for Trump as a lawyer for over 12 years? Then he says Cohen should get a full and complete sentence....
Then he turns are praises Roger Stone not helping investigators as "“Nice to know that some people still have ‘guts!’."
Soon after Trump gets a reply from Kelly's husband: "“Witness tampering: File under ’18 U.S.C. §§ 1503, 1512,’” wrote George Conway after retweeting the president’s post, listing the number of the federal criminal statute about “tampering with a witness, victim, or an informant.”
This guy has changed corporate bottom lines on an utterance; sent message to Russian hackers via his rally's, and now attempts to bully his way through the justice system. Enough of Oranagman. ,
I assume CNN will not be reporting this, LOL
Protestors in France are chanting "we want Trump!"
http://redstateobserver.com/article.asp?id=143610&fbclid=IwAR0V36Yd5P9qn1svZerxf7_zr5jXSOIMWvu-AEKUwkB-wUcSzrEVTNLwNuM
And in a linked story, protestors in the US heard chanting: “take our Trump please, take our Trump please”
4 weeks until the Blue Wave hits the banks of the Potomac and we bring values and truth back to Washington. Or at least some values and some truth back.
Flynn memo from Mueller today; hope its not sealed. Can’t wait to see what two Republicans and a gang of angry Democrats can cook up. Heh, heh.
Did Skippy move from NJ just to take part in a rigged election?
Republicans rig another election, allegedly. Wonder how they got the illegals to vote.
In world news, France's Macron is in trouble....
First, I read the protestors were rioting about the new gas tax (the Paris Accord/global warming nonsense), then I heard it was also about wages. I can only imagine SOME of the anger must also be about the Muslim caliphate (France is loaded with muslim refugees now, there are places the police won't even go)
"Macron says he will impose a #StateofEmergency against the #gilletJaunes.
The firefighters turned their backs.
Now the police remove their helmets to show solidarity with the French people AGAINST Macron. "
Viva la revolution?
https://twitter.com/kthopkins/status/1069308643038896133
It's nice to see that JR did not get his "news" from a known hate group this morning.
OMGoodness though, now he is using "twitter news." His source: "Katie Olivia Hopkins (born 13 February 1975) is an English media personality, columnist, radio presenter and businesswoman. She was a contestant in the third series of The Apprentice in 2007 and following further appearances in the media she became a columnist for British national newspapers." WIKI
Freaking apprentice wannabees. How come JR didn't believe Omarosa?
"the Paris Accord/global warming nonsense)" Global warming nonsense. Another scientist heard from.... Pay now, pay more later, but global warming, it's on and you will pay for it one way or another.
Guess what, JR missed the real news which is: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/france-backs-down-delays-tax-increases-after-paris-riots-n943381
Seems to be deep-rooted as a protest against the govt. favoring the rich against the middle class. Sound familiar? MAGA....
Sweden has had enough also, apparently...
Swedes protest against mass muslim migration in front of parliament
https://voiceofeurope.com/2018/12/it-is-time-to-bring-out-our-inner-vikings-swedes-start-protesting-against-mass-migration-in-front-of-parliament/#.XAU5F5FneXY.twitter
"the police remove their helmets to show solidarity with the French people AGAINST Macron"
Macron is in big trouble over his draconian taxes on fossil fuels. He is literally trying to tax gasoline so high that no one can use it anymore. He is out of control, but as we can see, life finds a way . . .
Seeing is believing . . .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMBsv0EzGak
I wonder if nationalists can have an international forum where all you boys can get together and share ideas how to wall yourselves off from each other :>)
Nationalism --- it worked so well for Europe last time :<(
Gotta give it to JR, he is consistent in his approach and research sources. YAHN, pronounced "yawn," for Yet Another Hate Newsie.
Voice of Europe: "Overall, this site is Questionable due to extreme right wing bias, promotion of propaganda, conspiracy theories and poor sourcing." Seems like anyone you know?
There is no known ownership for the site with may be Russian trolls or Erik De Vlieger is the financier and founder of the site, you can look up his creds, oye. JR has found his anonymous news outlet! We not only protect our sources, but we protect our writers, owners, financiers...…. Best not to come into the light.
"Voice of Europe reports stories from European media and frames and spins them in a misleading way that always turns out negative for immigrants and the European Union: “Almost 98% of gang rapists in Sweden have a migrant background”, “Sweden reports highest number of murders in fifteen years” Voice of Europe also has a poor track record with fact checkers." but a fantastic review by JR who says ---- "if you look hard enough, there might be a fact in that POS."
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/voice-of-europe/#/
Keep the faith brother.
Good point JR, and I've known this for a long time as I have family over there. The Swedes are starting to learn that they have had quite enough of this open migration nonsense. Good for them in figuring this out, that they are losing their culture and their nation due to their own open door policies. They are coming to the realization that this is self-inflcited and are starting to make amends for it. Good for them, it's about time.
"Good point JR, and I've known this for a long time as I have family over there. The Swedes are starting to learn that they have had quite enough of this open migration nonsense."
Your family is obviously extreme right-wing, hate-filled, racist, russian operatives. ;)
You said it JR, not I.
I said your sources are troll traffickers of hate spew, perhaps Russian, but certainly unnamed ownership. I would never say Greyhawk's family anecdotes are anything but anecdotal data since that's what they are. I don't think Greyhawk's family is anonymous, unnamed, and unsourced. Nor have I any indication that they are troll-like hatemongers looking to propagandize their filth using web site forums. Now, Grayhawk himself, well......that's a different case altogether and the jury is out, at best light.
If you accept this trash from unknown sources written by unknown authors working for an unknown owner, as gospel, so be it, but don't think pointing our your biased sources, as in over-the-top bias, is wrong or will stop. Trash is trash and if you are a believer of conspiracy theorists, hate mongering, and the like ---- that' on you.
I think it's great that you totally ignore your sources on reliability, credibility, and even responsibility; it's says so much about character.
Regardless of the sources, you have to be be living under a rock if you don't believe Europe has serious issues with immigration.
https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/cnn-panel-trashes-trump-after-u-s-capitol-visit-to-honor-george-h-w-bush
These people just can't help themselves.... It's supposed to be about Bush 41 and they find a way to take jabs at Trump. Get over yourselves no wonder your ratings suck....
"Caravan migrants begin to breach border as frustration with slow asylum process grows"
https://www.foxnews.com/world/caravan-migrants-breach-us-border-amid-anger-from-slow-asylum-seeking-process
How anyone can think that the U.S. can support this type "free" influx is beyond me.....people complain how much Trump spends, but turn the blind eye to B.S. like this.....total overlooking the bigger issue. From the day asylum seekers get into this country, it costs us money.
Hmm... someone who accuses everyone else of personal attacks is engaging in personal attacks... hey Greyhawk, any idea who that might be?
"How anyone can think that the U.S. can support this type "free" influx is beyond me"
Obama didn't. Until he did. Is that like "I voted for it, before I voted against it?"
(BTW... even Snopes says it's true lol)
Sad but true. You know how liberals love a double standard. Michelle Obama loves the crack dealer pimp Jay-Z but Trump's words are so shocking!
Back and forth- back and forth- back and forth.
I just wanna see the COWARD IN CHIEF’S taxes.
That’ll connect all of the dots.
Let’s see the bootlicking GOPers spin their way out of that.
LOL, JR. The one who accuses everyone of personal attacks... yeah that's nothing new! But remember...the reams and reams and reams of fan mail! LMAO!
"Regardless of the sources, you have to be be living under a rock if you don't believe Europe has serious issues with immigration." I agree, except for the rock part, Europe's immigration issues are ++like us, except different. Their Syrian issue is worse than our SOTB issues. Their EU borders are more unprotected than our States. And nobody likes newbuddies, especially the Nordics. However, words are important, sources are important, and trash is trash.
"It's supposed to be about Bush 41" I agree; make it about Bush, an American hero.
"How anyone can think that the U.S. can support this type "free" influx is beyond me....." Hey, at 60 a day, it's a slow down a Union boss would cheer. I can see frustration especially since if you illegally cross, put hands in the air and yell asylum, essentially you start the process. As to law, money, etc. it's our duty to honor our international agreements started post WWII with our 1948, 1951, and 1967 International Agreements. Asylum as a concept goes back to 511AD.
I, for one, will not dishonor my parents by turning a blind eye and calling this BS. It is not BS to want asylum. It is BS to want to find a bigger issue to replace it with. We are bigger than that, we are better than that, we should be the light on the hill, not the black hole of some nationalist's mind.
JR --- you show us the personal attack in all that. Please, I would like to apologize and improve. Hit me with your best shot, fire away. The only name calling I see if you against the Hawk when you said: "Your family is obviously extreme right-wing, hate-filled, racist, russian operatives. ;)" Now, that's a name plethora.
Why does JYM revel in a good reaming? Interesting outlook.
So true JR so true....
And JYM, that picture says it all! I heard about this last week on the news and I couldn't even believe it. Rudolph the red nosed reindeer is now going to possibly get the cut because he gets bullied? The whole point of the song is to outshine the bad in our life.....but for some reason that is not something we want to teach our youth?
Re: Rudolph and piggybacking on your post Darrin, clearly the bullying is shown as wrong and Rudolph’s difference is celebrated. You would think the libs would applaud that?
I honestly think they just want to tear down anything and everything that has gone before. It’s a mass mental illness. They’re not even loyal to their own which is the only light at the end of the tunnel and hopefully the madness will end before they do too much damage.
There are places I have been to…..
from my new friend....
“LOL, JR. The one who accuses everyone of personal attacks... yeah that's nothing new! But remember...the reams and reams and reams of fan mail! LMAO!”
What’s a ream anyway? Some troglodyte tool no doubt. Maybe I was wrong and all my screens of email are only from one source…some fan mail from a flounder. I wonder…..
“I notice Strangerdanger has been missing.”
“I am telling you, Metsman, I said it yesterday- StrangerD is "transitioning". I'm not sure what he's changing into, but it will be a doozy for sure.”
“I think so. They've never been seen in the same room. ;)”
Ah, the missing and the lonely. I hear that you always hate the one you love……Let the moderator-approved names begin to flow
“I am certain most of the crap you post is made up in your twisted brain”.
“Strange thing, you really are beyond help.”
“He might want to look up the word hypocrite”
Wow, Stranger, I am glad you're finally realizing the truth! YES,you and those who think like you are indeed a cancer.”
“It's obvious you don't have a clue, stranger. Painfully obvious.” “Talk about a snowflake.” “Strange yammering.”
All I can say is: “Something kind of hit me today
I looked at you and wondered if you saw things my way
People will hold us to blame
It hit me today, it hit me today
We're taking it hard all the time
Why don't we pass it by?
Just reply, you've changed your mind
We're fighting with the eyes of the blind
Taking it hard, taking it hard. (Bowie –We are the Dead)
Have a swell night.
Kick back , have a glass of Merlot, a scotch neat, or a doobie- whatever your preference.
Wait on the Groper in Chief’s taxes.
All soon to be revealed.
Agreed, very good points Suze and Darrin. This PC culture is completely out of control. Banning "Baby its cold outside" and throwing stones at "Rudolph the Rednosed Reindeer" ? Really? There is nothing wrong with either of them.
The PC police are banning things faster than the moral majority ever did . . . (think i'm gonna start a new thread, maybe call it 'Current Events' since this thread is toast)
Agreed GreHawk, this thread is also taking forever to load, although we are still hitting on the topic of immigration when news is released.
"Nov. 1: “So far, there are over 270 individuals along the caravan route that have criminal histories, including known gang membership.” (DHS fact sheet)
Nov. 19: “We’ve identified more than 500 criminals travelling with the caravan flow.” (DHS official told reporters on a press conference call)
Nov. 26: “We have confirmed that there are over 600 convicted criminals traveling with the caravan flow.” ( DHS Secretary Kirsten Nielsen wrote in a Facebook post)
Nov. 30: “And you see what’s happening when you have MS-13 and these gang members, and look at the caravan. Now, they have over 650 people that are absolutely stone-cold criminals.” (Trump to VOA’s Van Susteren)
“This number changes,” a DHS official explained during the Nov.19 press call. “People enter and leave that caravan flow throughout the journey. But we are very confident in our assertion that there are criminal elements within the caravan seeking to exploit it to gain entry into the United States or to actually to exploit other individuals in the caravan.”
Actually, as to how it is figured out: "“Some of the details are law enforcement sensitive, so we can’t release those publicly,” DHS press secretary Tyler Houlton said last week." Really, "law enforcement sensitive," like if you tell then the bad guys will react.....how?
In reality, they are talking at the high end of 8,000 migrants, 600 is 7.5%. At 6,000, it's 10%.
"The criminals were among a total of 396,579 undocumented border crossers in 2018. So, 4.4 percent were criminals and 0.3 percent were gang members."
"A report issued by DHS in August about the 2014 immigrant surge is consistent, saying that 5 percent of the people apprehended at the southern border had a criminal record. "
And what type of criminal --- Mets would have you believe they are MS13 raping murderers. Reality says: "DHS data show that 32 percent of the undocumented immigrants deported in fiscal year 2014 as “criminal aliens” were convicted of illegal entry. Sixteen percent were removed for drug offenses; 14 percent for traffic offenses; 10 percent were removed for assault; and 1.7 percent for sexual assault."
Even haters like rabid right JR-source CIS says: "A new study by the immigration hard-line group Center for Immigration Studies says that based on publicly available source material, “15 suspected terrorists have been apprehended at the U.S.-Mexico border, or en route to it, since 2001.”
This administration is a lying fearmongering entity of evil. And, like Mets and Jr, does not even check their own facts. https://www.voanews.com/a/number-of-criminals-in-migrant-caravan-does-it-matter-/4687576.html
Dude I see an article every week about an illegal killing someone who's a citizen. I don't care if they are a low percentage of the people coming in, the point is they don't belong here. We have enough problems that we don't need other countries garbage as well.... What don't you get.... You try to equate it as a non-issue and you sound foolish. You say a wall won't work which is nonsense. All we have now are fences that anyone can climb. A pregnant woman climbed one this week and gave birth to her child here. A wall doesn't have chain links and posts you can grab onto to pull yourself up. So unless you have rock climbing equipment, you're not getting over.... We have drugs like fentanyl coming in that are killing thousands of Americans every year because our border is a joke. Thousands die every year because our border sucks. We see people in our own community dying from the stuff. You need to get a reality check SD. The wall needs to be built and people like you and the Dems have blood on your hands if you think we should do nothing. e-verify is only part of the solution. It doesn't stop the drugs from coming in.
Trump and illegal immigrants: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/06/us/trump-bedminster-golf-undocumented-workers.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage&login=smartlock&auth=login-smartlock
4catmom so it says they used phony documents which obviously fooled their employer and most likely Trump knows nothing of it. You really think he knows about low level hires? Go ask a CEO of any company. I bet the CEO of my company has no clue who our new hires are.
All I was saying is that you are needlessly terrified of numbers less than the murder/rape rates of citizens. And you let your irrational fear guide your decisions.
I agree we only want citizens and legal visitors here. How we protect the border is where we differ. I just think the wall is a PR stunt. There are better ways. Why doesn’t Trump put 1/10th the wall effort into making everify the law of the land.
Everify stops the working class. Numerically, that’s most of it.
Do you really think a wall will stop drugs and criminals?
Are you suggesting a gulf to pacific wall? If not, won’t criminals and drug mules just move to non wall areas. If yes, how many billions. Then how far into the water to stop the swimmers. Its just so stupid.
Don’t matter. You can’t have it. Compromise and find another way.
Stated that one of Trump's staffers helped these people get phony papers - It's part of their way of doing business..................and this isn't the first time it has been reported. He just doesn't think any laws or rules apply to him and his businesses.
4catmom ok maybe they felt sorry for them and wanted to help them. I worked in a situation like that 20 years ago at the Chester Shoprite. The managers knew they hired illegals but do you really think it got to coorporate? Coorporate is worried about profits. They leave it up to store managers to hire people. They don’t know what’s going on.
"All I was saying is that you are needlessly terrified of numbers less than the murder/rape rates of citizens. And you let your irrational fear guide your decisions. "
You mean like how you & all the left are ranting about "mass shootings"?
Same result both times. And if the world be republicrats, how do label yourself.
I’m sorry; how many pols get tarnished, lose office, all over a illegal nanny, lawnmower and such.
Trump has been pegged for this before. He hired basically slave labor for some NYC buildings. Don’t you think him smart enough to tell his people not to do this.
This isn’t about money. This is about a guy who is a liar and crook by his basic nature. He ignores the law because he can. And he can’t help himself.
And he is rewarded for it by his followers.
Every other President divested everything. This guy lets Saudi’s buy 500 hotel rooms at a clip and thinks he’s just a great businessman where everyone else sees a get-out-of-jail-free card future quid pro quo support over an awful deed but his followers see “everyone does this.”
No they don’t. They don’t mix personal business with governing like this. They don’t lie like this. They don’t name call, demean and diminish like this. They don’t publicly pick winners and losers in American business and society like this.
Planes can fly over walls. Boats and other watercraft can get through rivers and tributaries. Humans can dig pretty far underground. Mules can make it over dangerous terrains. There’s thousands of ports of entry for all kinds of vessels. Prop planes and speed boats are common place, in the south. The wall funding doesn’t justify the means. If it’s part of the “war on drugs”, that’s ridiculous...for the reasons listed above.
Trump Organization, an umbrella company, is a multitude of different companies. Could a large construction company be one of the “holdings”, by chance?
You do realize you can install sensors to detect underground tunneling right? Waterways are what we have the coast guard for. The air the air force. Even if you don't put up a wall, we don't even have nearly enough border agents. Even that the Dems don't want to pay for. They just want to reshape America so that they can keep their power.
"You do realize you can install sensors to detect underground tunneling right? Waterways are what we have the coast guard for. The air the air force. Even if you don't put up a wall, we don't even have nearly enough border agents. Even that the Dems don't want to pay for. They just want to reshape America so that they can keep their power." So we gots all this stuff that makes tunneling, swimming and flying impossible. But we still need a wall?
What do you mean, not enough agents, Dems won't pay?
Our borders have within 500 border agents of their all time high in 2012 - 2014 under Obama. Trump cut them by 1,000 in 2017. So why do you need these extra guys when you have the wall: same budget request..... Fear mongering, that's why.
2017 saw a 25% decrease in illegal border crossings, a new 5-year low. Without a wall.
2018 saw an uptick, still down from 2016 and more in line with status quo. E-verify will lower these numbers far more than your stupid wall. Far more in that the criminality rate is under 5%; most of the rest are illegal workers. Why not pick the low hanging fruit first. Will also save Met's job from illegals as a fringe benefit for fringe workers.
Doesn't matter. You can't have your wall. Find another way. Compromise. Or remain gridlocked. You can not have your way anymore; you can only have OUR way, the people's way, all the people. Deal with it.
GR, that line of "logic" is ridiculous. So because of all those things you mentioned, we should do absolutely nothing to prevent illegal entry/invasion onto our sovereign soil. Why is it OK for other countries around the world to have border walls but not OK for the US? It is such hypocrisy and a double-standard coming from the left.
Sorry Mets, forgot the chart, you know --- facts.
Joe -- no, start with e-verify and then "smarten" up the border and, more important, domestic investigation and deportation for illegals.
"Why is it OK for other countries around the world to have border walls but not OK for the US?" I don't know, why is it? And do they work? We know the Berlin Wall worked but it's not hundreds of miles long, heavily armed, with shot to kill orders.
Why would the US build a wall just because other countries around the world have them? Some might say that's "such hypocrisy and a double-standard," but I wouldn't. What's next, adopt other wall-serving country attributes like those from Botswana and Zimbabwe, Pakistan and Afghanistan, China and North Korea, because that's where the long ones, like the one you propose for the US are located.......
Speaking of immigrants, and Europe, I'm thinking Macron will be out by the end of next week. He is getting it from the left and the right. It's not getting nearly the media attention it deserves but all hell is going to break loose in France tomorrow...
Yes, things in Paris are worse than the world news is reporting. MANY law enforcement officers are siding with the yellow vests. And Paris has been burning for days.
No instead the Dems will let people throw rocks at agents and scale the pathetic structures we have up... Then they'll cry asylum and disappear into our country. Real affective...
https://www.wcnc.com/article/news/politics/elections/ncgop-calls-for-new-election-in-9th-district-if-early-voting-numbers-were-leaked/275-622943321
Migrant group demands Trump either let them in or pay them each $50G to turn around lol
Yeah they're really legit asylum seekers.... They're all coming here for economic gain. That doesn't qualify for asylum.
What a joke Skippy!!!!!
And these are the people the liberals support...........unbelievable!
Funny, skippy's link took me to an article about potential election fraud by the GOP in a North Carolina Congressional district. It didn't mention anything about migrants and extortion.
I guess neither of you guys went so far as to actually attempt to read the article... just blind belief in whatever claims you read on the internet? (Not that I'm saying that skippy's claim is incorrect... just that you two never even bothered to double check it.)
"you two never even bothered to double check it"
Well, that link goes to a dynamic page that loads other articles below it... and those aren't always the same articles if you re-load the page.
So, perhaps at the time, the content skippy saw is different than what you or I see.
I fully concede that point, Mark Mc. My point was that Darrin or Metsman would have seen the exact same article that you and I did had they bothered to click on the link.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/caravan-migrants-in-mexico-demand-trump-either-let-them-in-u-s-or-pay-them-50000-each-to-go-back-home
Here you go ianimal.... I read this this morning so I didn't need to click on Skippy's link.
They don't need no stinkin articles, they have divine interpretations. I knows it in my bones.
https://nypost.com/2018/01/13/we-already-have-a-border-wall-and-it-works/
Here's proof that walls or well done fences can be effective. Nothing is full proof but when you have some areas with nothing, sorry that just doesn't cut it. Add man power and sensors and it would work even better.
Interesting but you have to ask did the wall work or did people just walk around it. Given the numbers nationally did not change, one should surmise they walked around it.
Do Walls work? Yes and no, it depends. For example, trying to keep people in or keep people out? Wiling to kill for it? How long? Complete or with gaps?
Sometimes when Walls work they just exacerbate root cause problems (for JIT), or create new ones.
Often, Walls are put up for political reasons to garner support amongst a constituency. Sound familiar? Stir in some fear and you have an election!
Which is more effective, wall them off or remove the reason to come? And if you do the later, do you need the former. Let's look at some cases:
- Coming for economic reasons: this is most everyone with a handful of criminals and druggies. E-verify stops that, no wall needed
- Asylum: if someone really needs asylum, they are coming. I agree with Trump on this that we should change our laws to accept them ONLY if they present themselves at a port of entry. Any caught in country can be deported, unless claims of being physically unable to apply at a port of entry can be made. That stops those border jumpers
- Criminals and druggies: Dude, tell us here and now that you honestly believe that your Wall is stopping the drug trade or criminals. Only the stupid ones. Otherwise, it's useless. You got to go to the source and police domestically to curtail this one, and you will never stop it. Especially with a wall.
Where is the caravan. Was Met's lied to......again?
Here’s the problem…. The Dems don’t want to make e-verify the law of the land. Right now companies just do it on their own. How do you propose stopping the drug flow? E-verify does nothing for that. And a fortified border manned and with surveillance absolutely would stop drug flow. How are they going to get in if you have sensors that detect tunneling? This isn’t 1950. A combination of a wall and technology would stop it.
Oh man, why do you make me do this... Why can't you do your work? Why can't you show your work.....
Met's said: "The Dems don’t want to make e-verify the law of the land." SD says: "Farm groups strongly opposed the defeated employee verification system. Those groups represent huge swaths of the Central Valley districts of House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy, R-California, and Rep. Jeff Denham, R-California, who have been leading immigration efforts in the House.
https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/congress/article213791734.html#storylink=cpyRight now companies just do it on their own.
McClatchyDC is a least biased, highly factual source that Mets should never believe.
Mets said: "How do you propose stopping the drug flow? E-verify does nothing for that." SD says, at the risk of repeating what you are responding to: " Criminals and druggies: Dude, tell us here and now that you honestly believe that your Wall is stopping the drug trade or criminals. Only the stupid ones. Otherwise, it's useless. You got to go to the source and police domestically to curtail this one, and you will never stop it. Especially with a wall. "
OK, we get it, e-verify stops >90% of flow; leaving criminals and druggies. You want to build a wall, fortify it, man it, sound sensor it, surveillance it, for $5B to solve less than 10% of the people problem? . What's the real price tag? 2,000 miles of impenetrable --- that's got to be hundreds of billions. Will you put in mined kill zone with shoot to kill orders that made the Berlin Wall and others so good at keeping people in?
To stop less than 10% of the flow?
You are kidding, right? Israel has a wall, how are their drugs: not good: http://www.antidrugs.org.il/english/pages/1315.aspx Afghanistan/Pakistan wall was to stop drugs: it's didn't.
Nope, put in e-verify and most of the illegal immigrant problem (that's what we're solving, right?) goes away instantly. Get your Republican buddies off their duffs. I gave you the starting list.
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/marc-thiessen-democrats-negotiating-strategy-can-be-summed-up-in-one-word
Wow is compromise even a word in the English language any more... This just makes so much sense.
SD the Republicans are losing control. Lets see the Dems tackle it. Bet they won't. You still need a barrier that can't be cut or climbed and seismic equipment that can detect tunneling. You need people on the ground as well to respond. It's not all e-verify. An effective approach uses a variety of methods.
There’s two sides in this. Dems can ask or Trump could offer. Who goes first.
Who is the great deal maker, chuck, nancy, or Don.
Doesn’t matter. The wall was never about security anyway. It isn’t still.
If you were married to Melanoma; would you Stormy? Almost fitting that women will bring the Don down. “You know, they’ll let me do anything.” Heh, heh. Yeah, sure Don.
Not sure where to post this, but since I know it was discussed here I figured why not lol
This is one of the reports requested by the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence. "The data sets were provided by the three primary platforms to serve as evidence for an investigation into the Internet Research Agency (IRA) influence operations. "
https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthelper/533-read-report-internet-research-agency/7871ea6d5b7bedafbf19/optimized/full.pdf#page=1
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