Now that the summit has officially happened, and an agreement (of sorts) has been signed, let's see how this goes....
The agreement is very preliminary, no de-nuclearization in it. But a journey of a thousand miles starts with the first step, right?
What I find most interesting is that the last 3 presidents could have done this. NK invited them. They all said no. They were not willing to "give" NK the "playing card" of a presidential visit without them promising to de-nuke FIRST. Trump is taking a different tact, but that's what he does: he's a deal-maker. Won't it be interesting if this leads to the de-nuclearization of the Korean Peninsula, with the reward being NK getting a seat at the big boy's table and participating in the western economy.
I have said all along this posturing has always been about that: Kim-Jong Il was crazy; his son is a brat but I don't think he's crazy. I think Un has simply been posturing, to show his "strength", because he wants to be in the popular crowd. But his ego won't allow him to come crawling.... so if letting him posture, and then negotiate from a seeming position of power (it's not) gets the job done, fantastic. And if it works out, Trump should indeed receive the Nobel for his efforts.
HOWEVER- I don't expect NK to keep their word, despite signing an agreement. Just like Iran hasn't. It won't surprise me in the least if this whole deal falls through before completion (because NK won't de-nuke), nor if the deal is completed, and a few years down the road we find them not keeping to the deal.
The threat of any real nuclear launch is, imo, non-existant. This has all been posturing. The whole point of nukes is mutual assured destruction. Only a lunatic would launch a first strike. And Un is not a lunatic. He's a KID trying to become a MAN on the world stage.
In the past we fought Germany, Japan, Vietnam, and now were are trading partners.That it is. Interesting times,
Waiting for the negative spin in mainstream media...
Aaaaand didn’t need to wait long
If anyone thinks North Korea would let themselves be completely denuclearized they are just SILLY!
Once the "BULLYING" starts up again for something, at some point (does it ever cease?), we'll be back to the starting point or near it.
Darrin, Trump is working on the threat first. After the threat is mitigated, he will work on denuclearizing the peninsula. One thing at a time.
Media a few months ago: OMG Trump is going to get us in a Nuclear war with North Korea....
Media Now: OMG Trump is actually talking to that guy?!
DUMBacrats always find a way to make a good thing bad....
(Another example being the jobs reports...They're the best they've been in 20 years BUT Liberals complain)....
So yes president d****** is friends with the dictator but is a complete ass to our Allied friends. That doesn't seem right to me. President Trump is a dictator. He is a moron a bully a racist. And I will say under investigation. Our allies hate him and there's good reason to. I can't believe people are still being fooled by him
Trump has already done more than some presidents took 2 terms to do. This guy will go done in history as the GOAT.
What has he done put children in cages lost 1500 children separate families oh yeah president Dirtbag has done a lot nothing but cause headache heartache and more racism in this country as people up to him as an example and are doing more racist stuff. Seriously what the heck are you smoking he is the worst president. The way he treats other people is disgusting especially women and minorities LOL I laugh at your comment because you're one of the people who are getting fooled by this in decent human piece of garbage
Proud liberal, typical you think the the picture of kids in the cage was taken during the Trump administrations tenure. More liberal lies, that picture was taken when Obama was president. Get your facts straight please.
Better than Republicans. Republicans are not doing it time to make it wave for the blue I can see you're still being fooled by Trump. The way he talked with the Canadian leader and the way he treats the other allies is ridiculous. He's making friends with the wrong people. Republicans are not doing it they're not cutting it anymore they're scamming the people of America and it's ridiculous. Time for change time for somebody to know what the heck they're doing. Trump it is not the guy and his boat followers are being fooled and they're pretty stupid the ones I talk to their like Hillbillies that live in the country time for a change of time for Democratic to get control of the house till things get done Republicans failing
Yeah same with the race issues. They started with Obama. Fergusson and Baltimore happened on his watch.
LOL okay you keep on being fooled. I'm not it's not even worth arguing with a trump supporter they're not well educated on what is going on.
Proud Liberal or Bobby? As in, Bobby DeNiro! You really are suffering from a bad case of TDS (Trump Derangement Syndrome)! Now you are even commenting on the Hackettstown Life Forum! LOL!!!
At least this negotiation did not require 1.4 Billion in cash to be flown to "Rocket Man" in the middle of the night. Did somebody say Iran? Owebama?
Yeah we're all toothless brain dead Neanderthals right? LOL... The arrogance of some liberals is astounding...
So funny reading proud liberal.. as usual the left, in its never ending quest for tolerance can only make points by inane name calling. The picture of the cages with children in them were of course, as we now,know, a picture from 2014 and the obama regime that the fake news tried to pass as current.
Thank you Proud Liberal for being proud of who you are, your language, lack of factual knowledge, childish name calling and a complete disregard of the facts of what is happening in the economy, our trade policies, black/hispanic unemployment, and consumer confidence provided a clear picture of the socialist/liberal of 2018.
Why are our immigrant children being put in cages and where the heck are the 1500 missing children. And toddlers and babies getting ripped out of the hands of their mothers absolutely ridiculous no reason for that type of bullying. If your family live somewhere where soldiers came in the middle of night killing your children and you having to leave with nothing but the clothes on your back and having to travel by foot for many miles and enduring hunger and having no place to go. Would you want somebody to help you and your family. Sit down and think about that the way you're treating me is people it's ridiculous. And Trump is terrible his ass needs to be in jail for the treatment he's doing do these poor people let me ask you something would you want somebody and some country to help you and your family if this was you. Being thrown out of your homes these terrible people killing your children and your family and you than having to walk many many miles without food or shelter think about it stop thinking about your selfish self and think about these poor people. These people that are in war countries that have nothing. If you wear them what you want somebody to help you and your family.?
"So yes president d****** is friends with the dictator but is a complete ass to our Allied friends."
You kiss your mother with that mouth?
Our "allied friends" (Trudeau) is being a complete ass to our president.
Had Obama done this, signed this preliminary deal, today's headlines would have read "Peacemaker Obama!" "Obama the Great Diplomat!" "Obama: a 2nd Nobel Peace Prize?"
But since TRUMP did it, it's all "Trump was mean to Trudeau", "the agreement doesn't mention human rights", "how dare he talk to a murderous dictator"
Tucker Carlson was right: the greatest thing Trump has done was send the left so far over the edge that they have lost their minds, their extreme hypocrisy on grand display for all to see...and that includes most of the MSM. It's been HILARIOUS to watch the left double-down on their insanity. They are so consumed with hatred for Trump they no longer see reality. It's been joy.
Maybe if November goes the way I think it's going to, Proud Liberal's head will explode.
Trump: bringing balance to The Force lol
You think you're funny but actually you're pretty pathetic. Just like Trump himself seriously time for the Democratic takeover! Time for a change Trump is not the answer and if you think he is a decent human being you are wrong. Just the way he talked about women should be a heads up on how this terrible human being really as sand people do not learn from that it's pretty sad that our girls have to look to him to see that his earlier. Wake up and now you're not funny I don't smoke crack apparently YouTube because you voted for Trump time for the Blue Wave to come and get this country back on track
" Time for change time for somebody to know what the heck they're doing. "
Yes, America agreed with you... on November 8, 2016.
Hmm... How about that Bill Clinton guy who recently got all bent out of shape over Monica Lewinsky and how he wouldn't do anything differently today...
You think racism is okay.? You think talk to you that women like the way Trump talks about is okay? You think snatching children away from their parents out of their mother's hand is okay? If you think any of this is okay and you support around this man you are horrendous person yourself I'm done arguing with a bunch of AirHeads there's nothing in your head but are if you think that the listed topics above is okay. We treat animals in shelters better than we do the people that are coming over to seek help from war countries. And it's ridiculous and if you support what Trump has done to these people and what he has said about women then you're just as love person as he is good day
What racism are you referring to and whose kids are being snatched? You're all over the place...
Actually JR we already know how Fox News would have reacted if Obama met with North’s Korea
Excellent! And to keep things in perspective.... Fox News (who also hypocritical, yes), is ONE of.... let's see....
ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, PBS.... so 1 of 6 MSM television outlets. 1 that leans right vs 5 that lean left... FAR left in some cases. Serious minority.
Of course that goes ditto for all the printed news outlets as well, NYT, Washington Post, etc etc etc.
Don't waste your breath arguing with a trump supporter it's like arguing with a small toddler LOL they don't get their way so they have a little tantrum just like our so-called current president
"they don't get their way so they have a little tantrum"
The only tantrums I saw were getting thrown by all the lefties who voted for Hillary. And of course 90% of the media.
Liberals....cry me a river lol! And float Obongo Hillary Podesta Holder Frigging Bernie the pathetic know nothing about economics geezer who got screwed by his own liberal communist party float them far away and help make America great again lol!!!!!
Outside. And you come on here spewing hate to people who dont agree with you. How are you any different than the person you are comming on this forum badmouthing...Yes you are a bigot.
Proud Liberals posts are absolutely hilarious.....it's like watching an ongoing adult temper tantrum......It's so amusing to watch you squirm!
God, if we said 1/4 of the stuff you are running on, and on, and on about when Obummer was in office, we would have been permanently banned from the site!
I am honestly surprised the ongoing name calling and foul language from proud liberal has been allowed to stay....better posts have been removed for far less, and it is very clearly against the forum rules...maybe you should read them something?
Russia Russia Russia!....LOL! Russia and Uranium One....not funny
You mean because I speak the truth. And people were horrible about Obama when he was president. I just how it is. Trump is racist and his supporters are too because I support that type of behavior. And it needs to stop. Trump looks down on women and minorities and it's horrible and so does his supporters. It has to change. Now he's becoming friends with the dictators of North Korea and that's not okay and he's being a jerk or to our allies that's not okay either. I tell it like it is. I've seen videos of numerous horrible behaviors about racism and they even admit because Trump is in office and they think it's okay. Well guess what it's not okay racism should not have happened in this day and age and we should be helping or immigrants who were coming from warlike countries. I bet you would want something or somebody to help you if you were coming from these countries and it's ridiculous. And the text scam is only for the rich and he's basically saying f*** you poor and f*** you minorities and he's giving the rich a tax break when we cannot afford that. I'm sorry if you don't like the way my posts are but I tell it how it is and I'm standing up with democratic because it's the way the country is being ran right now is not okay by a dictator and a racist and it has to stop. I'm a part of a group that educates what Trump is doing and I will continue to educate about the horrible things that this was so-called president is doing to the people. Especially the immigrants. Immigrant children are being taken from their mother right out of their hands and being put in cages living conditions or not good and he lost 1500 immigrant kids how is that okay immigrants are not nobody ever deserves to be treated like that. We live inside times Trump is not the answer he's probably promoting hate and he's really not doing an American people good by helping the rich get richer people are suffering because there assistance is being taken away very sad times I apologize if I offended your sensitive cells but this is not okay the way that work living right now in Trump's America terrible terrible terrible and something has to be done that. Obama when he was president horrible things was saidt about him . It's time to wake up and realize Trump is not the answer and stop living in tunnel vision Trump is racist and is a goonie
So you actually prefer a destabilized Korean Peninsula under nuke threat, higher taxes, higher unemployment, a slower economy, Hamas killing Israelis, and MS-13 flooding into the U.S.. because Drumpf REEEEEEE!
Trump is so Racist that he freed Alice Johnson from prison
Black unemployment is at an all time low and the delta between that and white unemployment is the smallest in recorded history. (See employment thread)
has growing support from the black community
Democrat tactics 101. Label your opponent as racist, sexist, homophobic, elitist, etc. Doesn’t matter if it isn’t true. Just keep pushing the angle regardless of validity.
I am still working and learning English my apologies but no need to be a bully and make fun of that
@PL "no need to be a bully"
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA....pot MEET KETTLE
Still learning English? What ever happened to that being part of the test to legally live here?
It's all making sense now.......
"I am still working and learning English my apologies but no need to be a bully and make fun of that" - ill give you kudos for attempting to assimilate in to the culture
oh the racist is also awarding a presidential medal of freedom to Dennis Rodman.
"Trump is racist and his supporters are too because I support that type of behavior. " well you support racists so I am not worried it.
You are bullies immigrants and people who don't speak English well. My case has been proven and it shows that you're just as a bully like trumpets good day
"99% of media outlets are covering the federal investigation into the Trump Campaign thats lead to charges, indictments, and guilty pleas, but Sean Hannity told me that's all a conspiracy so you libtards are crazy!" - JeffersonRepub's thought process.
Honestly do you just copy and paste the transcript of whatever Fox News says? It's crazy that people honestly believe that they won't spin literally everything in the favor of republicans and against the democrats.
All and all you failed my experiment test and you bullied immigrants especially with that meme so I can't take what you say seriously you're just like our so-called racist president
You do realize all the charges have nothing to do with what Mueller is supposed to be investigating right? He has nothing. The investigation is a farce...
And if you think putting children in cage is acceptable behavior like Trump is doing then I pray that you don't have any children
The Nogales photos were taken during the Obama administration, in 2014
No law mandates that parents must be separated from their children at the border, Under U.S. protocol, if parents are jailed, their children would be separated from them - unless you want children to be put in cages...
Nobody can stop trump as he steam rolls ahead and over the lefties. Hes even got Dennis Rodman on his side. Kidding aside Trump won his second term the minute he started his first one. I can tell everyone that one thing is certain, that Proud Liberal will in fact be very disappointed that day :)
I am a woman, I am middle class living pay check to pay check and I voted for Trump. For the past 1.5 years all I've heard is..."you support Trump, you're a racist". I am so sick and tired of the Libs calling Trump supporters racists, bullies, etc. I'd give my last penny to someone who needed it (regardless of color or who they voted for). Some of these liberals...I wonder if you'd help out someone wearing a MAGA hat or would you kick them when they were down???
You all sit there and talk about how Trump speaks about women....but you completely seem to ignore the whole topic when it comes to the Bill & Monica scandal.
Regarding N. Korea...it's a positive step in the right direction. As an American I hope promises are fulfilled and it's a success. Republican or Democrat...shouldn't we all be hoping for the same thing?? Well....I wouldn't be surprised if Crazy Hilary isn't hoping for success...
Why isn't everyone rooting & cheering for the USA & it's success??? Seems to me the libs are hoping the US fail.
Proud Liberal - how many times are you going to repeat that children are "kept in cages" under Trump after multiple people have fact checked you on that and showed you proof this occurred in 2014? Do you even read what people are responding or do you just believe every thing you see re-posted on Facebook that is meant to conjure up emotions on those who are easily swayed by propaganda? This is a serious question because you keep repeating the same thing over and over with nothing to back besides your own emotions and it's becoming frustrating to read. If you want these people to listen to you and not respond sarcastically, you need to listen to them as well when they are responding directly to the inaccuracies you are posting.
Polls show Trump’s approval growing, better than Obama’s during same period in Obama’s presidency. Obama’s disapproval numbers averaged 54-57 percent in June 2010. Obama’s approval numbers remained relatively low, and his disapproval numbers relatively high, for several years.
the American economy is booming - go look at the may jobs report thread..
Wage growth is booming, the stock market is skyrocketing and consumer confidence is at a 17-year high.
I like how you post this completely unsubstantiated stuff with no basis - with no supporting info.. No need .. Drumpf is a racist got it.
Besides, trump offered NK real estate,condos and best hotels. Who is going to put in money there when Kim himself couldn't afford his Singapore hotel stay. Trump and America cannot force EU or any other independent country to invest there with development there. It's a deal between America and NK,so what we promised NK, are we going to give them that? How do you verify and validate NK complies to denuclearization? That's altogether a long process. They must not end up blackmailing us to give in for every little baby step they take.
What didn't happened? What picture it? If they weren't caged then why was a senator not allowed in? Nothing to hide,right?
Proud Liberal. I’m married to a mexican, who was born in Mexico. We are both trump supporters. Mind blown yet? Are we both racists?
Why is Obama always a benchmark for trump and his supporter. I guess for trump he can't get over the fact that a black foreigner(foreigner to him-kid born to an American parent,even if abroad is american) dared to become potus. Why no mention of FDR as benchmark who is the 1st american potus to make America global economic and military superpower?
ok continue to fabricate reality
It’s a secure facility in a converted former Wal-Mart that’s heated cooled etc.
Merkley was admitted but couldn’t take pictures or enter with the ACLU and the rest of the clown college.
Merkley was told he could not stream it on Facebook
They use fencing to separate children from adults
That’s all from a WaPo article. Give it a rest
Philliesman: I guess proudliberal meant is every racist in America is most likely a trump supporting republican.
So, are the kids allowed to go out? Play in the sunshine like your kids, Skippy? What about their emotional balance? Putting them in bunked beds or say without the caged,, without taking them out is "home" or good enough for you if they were your kids? What about those babies and small toddlers that were separated?
The Yale, the senator was allowed to visit the sites he hsdotiginally requested. You seem to have overlooked that fact. The senator was denied access to a third site he had not previously requested. BTW, nothing was found to be wrong by the senator at the sites visited. Another fact you seem to have overlooked.
hardest working president of my whole lifetime, history and the extreme leftists can't deal with it, they only have two things in their playbook, two things they repeat like TM mantra over and over again, 'racist and womanizer', they got nothing on the substance of what is by all measures, the successful track record of this administration, and all of this is happening in the face of fierce resistance from both established parties.
we wanted change and we got it, we wanted a true outsider and we got it, hallelujah
this was a successful diplomatic trip, and your president should get credit for it,
Right on Yale. Because they are not white American kids skippy doesn't care
BC: My concern is not about the kids are caged or not. I am more concerned about the emotional well being of the kids, especially those toddlers,babies and younger kids. Do they have normal activities like other kids,your kids? They are not prisoners,right? Not prosecuted,right? Then, do they spend entire day all time in the highly secured Walmart, without seeing sunshine? Are they allowed to go out and play? How are their emotional well being taken care of? What about the other 1500 missing kids,given away by DHS to the so called vetted sponsors? And those sponsors are untraceable?!! What were those your kids? Would you have cared then??
Looks like a snow flake is having a melt down. Give him a brake, but take his guns away, Ho! that is right, he does not have any.
The only racist I see in this whole thread is Proud Liberal. Questions for you Proud Liberal: Are all white people racists because they are white? Have you ever met a white person who was not a racist? Are all conservatives racists? Even those who are African-American, Hispanic and Asian?
TheYale: Maybe their parents shouldn't have sent them across the border unattended. They could have kept their kids with them if they wanted their families to be together. If parents in NJ behaved this way towards their own children DCF would step in and take charge of them. Again, you need to look back at the prior administration for the kids in cages move that Obama is responsible for.
“So, are the kids allowed to go out? Play in the sunshine like your kids, Skippy? What about their emotional balance? Putting them in bunked beds or say without the caged,, without taking them out is "home" or good enough for you if they were your kids? What about those babies and small toddlers that were separated?”
Well their families just dragged them through the desert riddled with human and drug traffickers - I’m sure going out to play during the 72 hours they are there is not high on the Maslow hierarchy.
There getting food water shelter and medical care and most likely sent to live with familiy members in the us.
And apparently because I have fact based comments and opinions and don’t buy into your imagined agenda I too am racist. Meanwhile you are living in the greatest country in the world - as an immigrant - which protects your right to hold your completely biased opinion and spew it on to the internet. God Bless America.
I find it troubling you support someone that talks about women in terrible ways and who thinks lock in up kids is ok
That's per the international treaty that America signed to. Do you expect the kids to be sent to labor camps like in NK? Every country do what America does- give food,shelter and medical needs to refugees or illegal immigrants and their kids,but no country,not even in Europe,they separate kids,babies from their mothers. Don't try to justify that. It was done by executive order.
Did I miss something? Where are these children who are locked up by President Trump?
“Every country do what America does- give food,shelter and medical needs to refugees or illegal immigrants and their kids,but no country,not even in Europe,they separate kids,babies from their mothers. “ as was posted and linked to before - this only happens in cases where the parents are being held for criminal charges outside of the illegal entry to the US. No country in the world houses pre-trial inmates with children. Why would you even advocate for that. This is done to protect children from predatory adults.
In what other context would parents who are clearly endangering the lives of their children , including them in the commission of a crime and contributing to their delinquency be seen as victims? This problem is not unique to this administration. Regan put Central Americans in camps, Obama did the same - guess what this is a humane way we have to deal with this problem which abides by international law.
The message clearly being sent is DON’T COME ILLEGALLY.
By the way - trump denounces separating children in any form. Next
What if was your family in a war zone??? No place to go ....because they took home ..killed family...no food water....what would YOU do? To become citizen is hard and they do pay money to stay here...that's what is wrong not caring about people and putting more money in rich pockets... Trump and his friends are crazy
You don’t have to become a citizen to live here legally. How does one pay money to continue an illegal act? There are provisions for asylum seekers in that event. I certainly would not violate the sanctity of a sovereign nation and demand rights freedoms benefits and protection of their government. That was the point of the meme earlier - you don’t get to do that in any circumstance.
You need an ID to vote in Mexico - not here. Which Is another thing we need to change so this gargbage doesn’t keep getting pandered to - the only reason it’s being discussed is the democratic base consists of the deceased on the voting rolls, illegal aliens granted ID in the blue states and the elite globalist crowd who just want to make sure they have cheap household labor. Think about it
Sorry Proud, but you really need to be educated. I have some questions for you. Why did you come to this country?? Are you contributing anything?? What are you giving back to be here?? Being an American is a privilege and not a right to freeload. Did you come here to become an American and have all the freedoms we hold dear. Did you leave the land your from and not look back?? Seems to me you brought nothing but hate.
If you must know yes I'm a legal citizen if you would like to see my paperwork I'd be happy to fax it over to you. I paid taxes and my fees to become a citizen and yes I contribute to society and I volunteer so yes I am here legally and I did it the right way but unfortunately many people are suffering and these War zones and America should do more to help instead of President Trump o putting money into the riches Pockets scamming people and saying f*** you the for minorities and also God said to help those who need help well these poor people need help. I invite anybody to have some coffee and have a friendly debate and I will educate you on the Terrible Things That Trump is doing but yes if you like my paperwork I would love to fax it over to you
Keep lying! No country prosecutes illegal immigrants. These prosecution started after trump came to office. Jeff sessions is the brain behind this. There is no law to prosecute illegal immigrants before that like you claim! In other countries,they deport. Even in EU, they don't prosecute illegal immigrants. They could have deported,these separating kids and parents and prosecuting parents happened under trump and session,not before that and not in any other countries
I would love to share stories over a cup of coffee about what these poor people are going through their children are dying their family members are getting kidnapped and killed by these horrible people in the war zone countries. I extend an open invitation for coffee so I can educate you people about the heartache that these poor immigrants are going through and then maybe you'll have a heart and you realize that these people are God's people too and they deserve shelter food and water just like you have. To turn their backs on these poor people who lost their homes family members everything they have except the stuff on their backs is heartbreaking and hear people saying that these people don't matter is terrible. The lies Trump has told is ridiculous and you people are being Fooled Again I invite you for a cup of coffee on me and I will educate you about what Trump is doing and the lies he's telling and everything else that relates this topic. And the people who are making fun of immigrants and questioning me is just terrible and it just shows what kind of people you really are somebody like Trump and that is saddening. After all the Native Americans were here first so technically your families are all immigrants unless you're Native American. Something to think about. Again I extend an open invitation coffee on me so I can educate you
And for aunt. I love this country I love most of the people in this country what I don't love is the so-called president and the people who think like him. I became a citizen when Barack Obama was here I loved him and I was very sad to see him go so you choosing me of what you stated above is a lie and that just shows that your hatred towards immigrants which is so sad because I know so many great people who are immigrants who brought so much to this world of love. I invite you and anybody else to email me we'll get together and I can tell you stories of what people have suffered and go into detail and you would be disgusted on how they were treated well I would hope you would be disgusted of these poor treatment of people. I would love to meet you for coffee and anybody who's interested he wants to learn what really is going on
Even trump has to go back only till his grandpa,before that his bloodline was in Scotland and Germany. Just saying
Very true Yale and also his wife was an immigrant which I don't understand. I feel very badly for that girl because she doesn't get treated like she should by Trump it's ridiculous
Funny thing about trump is he married two legal immigrants and his wife Melania brought her parents here through chain migration. No trump voter has problem with that.Now trump get all angry and hates legal immigrants as well and chain migration. His brave voters don't question him about his wife or in laws but clapped and shout his name. Wow! That's His Royal Highness of United States of America
If trump married a legal brown Arab immigrant instead Caucasian Christian European immigrants, sure some trump voters would have asked some questions
The Yale, The children being detained after illegally crossing our border are being well cared for. They have safe shelter, good food and medical care something they lacked during their journey, a journey that placed them in danger. So they are much better off now than they were previously. Keep in mind, the separation of children from their parents after entering our country illegally was initiated during the Obama administration. However many critics of Presiddnt Trump try to place the policy on him. Lastly, Obama let tens of thousands of undocumented children be dispersed throughout the country to supposed family members. Most were never heard from again, including failure to show up for their immigration hearings. Most likely because their so called family members are also here illegally and don't want to be found for fear of possible deportation.
Yep sad but true. I think we scared off the trump lovers with correct facts! There reaction to me be an immigrant just shows their true colors and how they really are terrible people like Trump
I always thought North Korea was being punished for their behavior in regards to economic sanctions, because the leadership of the country wronged those with greatest influence over the flow of global economies. It makes me think of Great Britain, and how they would react to perceived offenders.
But, I think the economy is a separate Entity from the D.C. government diplomacy. So if the POTD wants to have good foreign relations with a specific country, there's not much preventing it from wielding its authority.
Congress on the other hand, has the most say in regards to D.C.'s dollars.
While the goal is M.A.D., this hasn't stopped any country from trying to prevent 1st strike, 2nd strike, and 3rd strike capability or to assure first strike capabilities against a country. And, while people think you'd have to be "mad" to launch nukes, the option is realistic when it involves the invasion of a nuclear armed country like Russia and the U.S.A.
Someone I know used to work at his Golf Course in Bedminster, and he saw DT and his wife in the clubhouse. I was told that he treated her rudely and without respect, and this was about the time when the golf course opened, about 10-12 years ago! (just saw the golf course opened up in 2004, 14 years ago).
Why so much bullying, belittling, name calling, derogatory descriptions and bad names about almost Everybody that doesn't think the world of him? I'd be thrown in jail and fired if I did that in the work place or out on the streets!
I've never seen anything like this in all my years of watching Presidencies.
I am sorry proud liberal, but if you in fact did it right...you should be mad at those who are trying to cheat the system....I certainly would be....because you proved yourself that it was possible to become a legal citizen...other people are just too lazy and know they can get away with it..and again what is it about ILLEGAL that you do not understand?
"I think we scared off the trump lovers with correct facts!"
You didn't scare off anyone...and if your did..it was certainly not with your delusional "facts"....Nothing you have said is correct...in fact it's just the opposite...factual info has been posted debunking your incorrect claims...yet you keep claiming it is true!!!!
And secondly.....everyone left their JOBS and went home to spend time with their family.....not everyone has the time to post every 10 minutes like you!!!!
Yep sad but true. I think we scared off the trump lovers with correct facts - name a “fact” you posted that was not debunked
@PL "Wow hack"
Um.....what? unless of course you are talking about yourself and all your debunked claims...in which case I AGREE WITH YOU!!!!!
LOL read the above message I was responding to hack residents what she said and your ridiculous I'm not going to spend waste time talking to you
I debunked you Skippy. This prosecution of illegal immigrants for just crossing started under trump as well as separation of kids. And they dared to give away someone's kids to vetted sponsors who lost almost 1500 kids as these sponsors remain untraceable! That's wrong. No country gives away illegal immigrants' kids away to other individuals
I just read an article where veterans that' they're being deported after serving this country horrible . LOL can't you read skip LOL
Trump's grandpa dodged 1 draft and ran away to America during WW1, he got kicked out of Germany,stripped of German citizenship.
Trump went to military school,played many types of sports there, then he dodged 5 drafts, he is president of United States of America, cheered upon by supporter for mocking mc Cain for returning home. Trump supporters are really patriotic. I applaud them with bow head.
If trump was German during WW1, he would have been kicked out of there 5 times. Just saying....
Sure the veterans that are being deported have not dealt with their legal status or have committed other crimes
Nobody said military service made you above the law - you debunked nothing
Yale I and others have showed you links that this was in place at lest as far back as 2014
Got links to any of that? Do you need a lesson on how debunking things works?
Trump was one of 15.4 million men who received deferments, were exempted or disqualified from service - he appeared as ordered and the military didn’t accept him.
So the basis of your position is you’re wrong and a racist - despite being shown facts
Obama removed naturalization from basic training - how about that
“Naturalization used to be part of basic training, but the laws changed, Stock says. As a result, lots of green card holders went to Iraq and Afghanistan without becoming citizens. She says the Obama administration has been aggressive about deporting immigrants who commit crimes, including veterans, though no one knows an exact number.”
Military service doesn't make you above the law unless your military service is commander in chief. Can you imagine the republican reaction if Obama or Hilary had said that they could just pardon themselves for crimes as our current president did? And yet it is ignored.
I'm genuinely curious to hear how the Trump supporters in here feel about Trump saying he could pardon himself if he were charged with something as a result of the Mueller investigation.
Yup, as mc Cain said rich kids come up with bone spurs certificate made and paid by their dads to avoid veitnam. Trump gave other reasons too- attending college,etc etc.
Patriotism is all about spirit. To fight for your country no matter what! Trump was not disabled, he gave military excuses and one of them was bone spur. Military academies should stop taking students who have bone spurs like trump(we all know that a lie
As I said, patriotism is about the spirit and courage to fight and die for your country.
Even rich kid Robert Mueller VOLUNTERRED to fight in Vietnam and got injured in one of the fiercest battle there and even after injury he refused to be released from service and wanted to go back to veitnam to fight again. He only accepted release from service because as per military rule that time, he could not get back immediately after injury to the battlefield again.
Let's face it, military service to fight for your country is not for MEEK AND WEAK trump. He was given 5 chance,he didn't take it.
“Can you imagine the republican reaction if Obama or Hilary had said that they could just pardon themselves for crimes as our current president did? “
Clinton relied on the sailors and soldiers exemption as commander in chief during his impeachment.
Trump didn’t say he could pardon himself Gulianni did - as did Allan Dershowitz a constitutional scholar and fervent liberal
Skippy, I forgot to mention - trump went to veitnam as he described with his own words- "avoiding STD with women's pu$$ies were his own veitnam war" during the actual veitnam war time period.
So you can say he is a veteran
Wow Yale. I am learning a lot and now see trump is worse then I thought. Thank you!
June 4, 2018, "...I have the absolute right to PARDON myself..." Donald J. Trump, on twitter. So what's your opinion on Trump pardoning himself if the Mueller investigation proves that he committed a crime?
You don't understand. Trump is His Royal Highness, King of USA to his MAGA base. Even if founding fathers,Lincoln, Reagan,FDR return from their graves(just saying to explain), they wouldn't care. Trump is NOT ONLY crowned KING of United States of America,but it's only founding father too, to his base. They will fight even with real actual founding fathers for trump.
To pardon himself? Only king/queen and royal family can do that! Not POTUS, POTUS is the number 1 topmost public servant. Constitution allows him to be indicted,impeached or even prosecuted. If he has constitutional rights as POTUS, Nixon and bill Clinton could have pardon themselves in oval office infront of DOJ officials instead of facing public humiliation and impeachment process,why didn't they use their constitutional rights? Because they don't have that
Except constitutional scholars have agreed thst he has thst power - what do you want me to say
Lol...proudliberal anyone coild make up anything they want and as long as it is anti trump....and you would "learn a lot"....meaning you are aparently believeing everything you hear and not doing a lick of your own research.
Now actually opening your ears and looking at both sides......that might actually teach you something as opposed to hiding behind your continual "racist" name placing.
And really....give it a break....you have been posting just about every 10 minutes for the last 8+ hours....don't you have anything better to do....and isn't this thread about Korea?!?!?!
Article II, Section 2, Clause 1, of the Constitution, under the Pardon Clause. The clause says the President “shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment. - period end
The only racist I see in this whole thread is Proud Liberal. Questions for you Proud Liberal: Are all white people racists because they are white? Have you ever met a white person who was not a racist? Are all conservatives racists? Even those who are African-American, Hispanic and Asian?
Grey I guessed you missed the meme that was posted. I married white man. So you are wrong.
What I don’t get is why you feel that others should be able to circumvent the process when you went through it legally
I am speaking for the immigrants. Get treated poorly by the so-called president and his cronies I'm not sure how that is being racist. I have been attacked by my English on here and for being an immigrant. So now I'm not racist at all but these people who are attacking me are they think like Trump which is racist
these people have no place to go they're getting killed in her home country their children are starving. They come here and their children get locked in cages and are being snatched from them they need our help. If you were in this position would you want the country that you were going to to help you? Think about being in their position and what you would want done. It's horrible situations like I said I have stories that are just mind-blowing and I would love to meet you and share this information with you over a cup of hot coffee. And Trump with his tax scam I just making the rich richer. Like I said I want to help these people or being kicked out of their homes out of their homelands with nothing but the filthy clothes on her back. Their family members are getting killed their children are hungry they have no place to go just think about it I am done for tonight I'm going to hold my children closer tonight and it's time to retire and go to bed. But please don't make fun of my English I bored very very hard to learn this language I graduated height right High School GED and put myself through college. I've done a lot and I worked hard and pass citizen test. Just things to think about before you open your mouth to degrade immigrants after all the Native Americans were here first something to think about good night
The Yale, you say, Patriotism is all about spirit. To fight for your country no matter what. If that's true, please explain why Bill Clinton and Barack Obama didn't serve. Oh that's right, Clinton received a college deferment and Obama was too busy to enlist because he was running the black militant programs in Chicago.
Ok then let’s reset - why do you feel that people
Have an inalienable right to enter this country based on whatever atrocities are occurring in their home country? Why is anyone that does not agree with your obviously self admitted biased view get labeled as being a racist? Why is trump
You’ve been provided facts and imperical evidence where Trump does not act in this manner as well as evidence that you’re using this label to further your personal agenda.
Change my view. Hold your kids close because you’re lucky to be In the greatest nation om the world. You immigrated here because of that fact. Enjoy the freedoms that our forefathers provided for you. we as Americans deserve to protect what we have created - you included.
Yale provided you sources. Holding my kids because some kids are being torn away from from parents and put in cages. I been attacked on here for being here by trump supporters look back at terrible meme. Why is trump not help in pr..still no power. Good night
I want you to say your opinion. Do you support President Trump pardoning himself if the Mueller investigation concludes that he is guilty of a crime related to election meddling? I'm not asking if you think he's allowed to, I'm asking if you would support the president if that happened. Everyone on here is so quick to say that Democrats stick together no matter what, so is this something you would stand by the president on?
Sorry you feel attacked but you hold a view which is not substantiated - have a good night
PL, minor correction to your comment. People crossing our border are not immigrants they are illegal aliens. Crossing our border without permission is illegal and being in our country without proper permissions makes one an alien. Hence the term illegal alien. Many of these people are either dragging children with them or sending the children on alone. This in itself is illegal as it amounts to child endangerment. A US citizen would be jailed for simply leaving a their child home alone let alone subjecting them to potential rape, assault, and even murder in their attempt to enter our country illegally. Also, under international law, those persons seeking asylum are to do so in the first free county they enter. In the case of those from Central/ South America the first country is Mexico not the United States.
I probably dis liked Obama as much as you people, don't care for Trump. I did not get as upset as you people do, because there is nothing you can do about. Obama went around the world apologizing for Americas actions, He never put his hand over his heart, and never whore a lapel Flag, as most Americans do. Thats where the football players got there kneeling from. Mid America noticed and MAGA. was born. There are just as many RINOs as Dems. in the swamp so he has to work around them, Politicians are not a place to look for virtue. Just look at the action of the FBI, JOD,and CIA leadership. Neal Goursh was his first main accomplishment. Maybe he will get another judge that can read the Constitution and abide by it. May you all have peace in your heart.
“Why won’t you let anyone from a terrible country come into the USA?” “Why won’t trump help PR?” Why do we have to help anyone? Can we worry about taking care of our own country?
Our roads, airports, electric power grid infracstructure are all terrible and way behind the rest of the world. We can’t be daddy for every poor soul out there and I actually wish we could. Liberals do not have a monopoly on compassion and I care about other human beings but it’s foolish to think we can help every person from every war-torn or impoverished country. I’m not being racist or mean or elitist. I’m being practical.
Anyone else on their second tub of popcorn? PL, you’re a hoot
Proud liberal "Why is trump not help in pr..still no power"
What a crock, we have spent billions on aid, and more than 99% have power. Stop getting your news from sensational headlines.
“Anyone else on their second tub of popcorn?”
Popcorn? Popcorn is white... why do you like white popcorn so much? You’re racist!
I don’t blame President Obama for not meeting with Kim. Had he done so, he would have been AGAIN accused of being by terrorist lover, an America hater, a commie, etc.
LOL your comment, it does not make any sense. I guess you did not read the part where I have white husband and my children are half white biracial. I don't support any races who support Trump in a hideous racist policies not just from white people anybody regardless of race who supports Trump's princess hideous policies I don't agree with not just white people. You need to read the full form to realize that I have white people in my family.
Proud liberal....you came on here first running your keys all over that every trump supporter is a fool and a plethera of other offensive names including bigot and racist........when someone responds to you about your actions......you suddenly were the one that was attacked.....your kidding me right?
The sky is hazy...but not hazy enough to hide your hypocrisy.
"I would love to share stories over a cup of coffee about what these poor people are going through their children are dying their family members are getting kidnapped and killed by these horrible people in the war zone countries"
And this is america's responsibility.... how?
All this nonsense can be boiled down to this:
Don't come here illegally. It makes you a criminal by default. If you bring your children, or SEND your children, it is YOU that is responsible for their fate, not the current sitting US President.
"I just read an article where veterans that' they're being deported after serving this country horrible ."
IMO, military service- HONORABLE military service- should earn you automatic citizenship.
"I am learning a lot and now see trump is worse then I thought."
Worse than YOU thought? Not possible.
"So what's your opinion on Trump pardoning himself if the Mueller investigation proves that he committed a crime?"
How about we stick to things that have ACTUALLY happened instead of hypotheticals?
"these people have no place to go they're getting killed in her home country their children are starving. They come here and their children get locked in cages and are being snatched from them they need our help."
Again: not America's responsibility, and don't come here illegally.
America does not have the resources to take in every person on the planet that is "in a troubled area." It's not that simple. We can't just print money and build them their own towns across the fruited plains. You need to learn about something called REALITY, because you're living in some hypothetical, utopian fairy-land in your mind.
"The Yale, you say, Patriotism is all about spirit. To fight for your country no matter what. If that's true, please explain why Bill Clinton and Barack Obama didn't serve. Oh that's right, Clinton received a college deferment and Obama was too busy to enlist because he was running the black militant programs in Chicago."
Of course DEMOCRATS don't count- do your homework.
"PL, minor correction to your comment. People crossing our border are not immigrants they are illegal aliens. Crossing our border without permission is illegal and being in our country without proper permissions makes one an alien. Hence the term illegal alien. Many of these people are either dragging children with them or sending the children on alone. This in itself is illegal as it amounts to child endangerment. A US citizen would be jailed for simply leaving a their child home alone let alone subjecting them to potential rape, assault, and even murder in their attempt to enter our country illegally. Also, under international law, those persons seeking asylum are to do so in the first free county they enter. In the case of those from Central/ South America the first country is Mexico not the United States."
EXACTLY!!!! Too much damned common sense in that comment!!!
And +1 to Old Gent's comment above, as usual, he's got it 100% right.
Proud Liberal - you didn't answer any of the questions I asked of you, not a single one, again the only racist on here is you. You said that President Trump is a racist. Do you have any proof or just angry invective? You said that all his supporters are racist because he is a racist. Again, do have any proof of this? You haven't provided a single shred of evidence to support your outrageously invalid claims. I asked you if people of color who supported the president are racists. You avoided answering that question. Still waiting on your answer. You cant have it both ways.
Anyhow, this whole discussion is off course, because Proud Liberal, your president had a historical and successful diplomatic visit with the leader of North Korea and you should be acknowledging that simple fact and give your president the credit he is due for this significant accomplishment
"Do your homework," why didn't trump serve....No, he got a medical deferment although he is not sure which foot was the problem...And then we have Bush who never served
Jimmy Carter United States Navy Lieutenant (navy) Served during World War II as a midshipman at the United States Naval Academy. Sea duty and stateside service 1946–1953 during the Korean War.
Gerald Ford United States Naval Reserve Lieutenant Commander World War II (1942–1945); combat on USS Monterey, discharged in 1946.
Richard Nixon United States Naval Reserve Commander World War II (1942–1945); earned two battle stars for service in the Pacific.
Lyndon B. Johnson United States Naval Reserve Commander World War II. Received Silver Star after observation mission in which aircraft he was on came under Japanese attack. This was Johnson's only observation flight, and Johnson was the only individual on it to receive an award, leading many historians to conclude that Douglas MacArthur presented it to secure Johnson's political influence.
John F. Kennedy United States Naval Reserve Lieutenant (navy) Served in combat during World War II. Received the Navy and Marine Corps Medal and the Purple Heart.
Dwight D. Eisenhower United States Army General of the Army Stateside service during World War I. Served as Supreme Allied Commander in Europe during World War II (1942–1945). Entire active-duty career spanned from 1915 until 1969 (excepting his two terms as president).
Harry S. Truman Missouri Army National Guard,
United States Army,
United States Army Reserve Colonel Stateside National Guard service in Missouri (1905–1911); served in combat in France during World War I (1917–1918); transferred to Army Reserve and retired in 1953.
Franklin D. Roosevelt
As we may note from this list only two presidents where Republican.... " Of course REPUBLICANS don't count"- do your homework.
Eisenhower was also a republican. Must be that "new math" they're teaching....
I won't go into the whole "the democrat party of yesteryear is NOT the democrat party of today" thing... true as it is... some of us have actually STUDIED history, as opposed to just listing a bunch of names republican vs democrat. *I* would have voted for some of those democrats.
"Anyhow, this whole discussion is off course, because Proud Liberal, your president had a historical and successful diplomatic visit with the leader of North Korea and you should be acknowledging that simple fact and give your president the credit he is due for this significant accomplishment"
That's all it is; the snowflakes are falling again... can you imagine how "cold" it's going to get if the republicans gain seats in the mid-terms? And if Trump gets re-elected? Get out your parkas!
And this is why the Democrats will not get regain the house or senate... You have people like Proud Liberal and Yale using the Nancy Pelosi playbook saying the sky is falling...
nice list citychick, how about Herbert Walker Bush? Isn't he a decorated vet from WWII ? What about Teddy Roosevelt? And of course Ulysses S. Grant? looks like your source may have an axe to grind with republicans. Can't deny that Bill Clinton is a draft dodger who didn't inhale.
But to your point, where are the great democrats like JFK today? Your party has moved so far to the left it is actually standing in foul territory and is actively rejecting those democrats who are more centrist and more balanced in their views on American exceptionalism, border security, business, and the economy. Where are those Democrats today? You guys are sorely missing the likes of JFK and FDR and Harry Truman.
Out of the list I gave you for your edification ,,,,Carter (d), Ford (d) Nixon (r) Kennedy (d) Eisenhower (R) Truman (d) and Roosevelt (d).....I was just going back to the end of WW11... Herbert Walker Bush was not a president, stay on topic GreyHawk ( Like your name)....Do not deny that Clinton dodged the draft, but trump lied at least Clinton is a Rhodes Scholar I am not sure trump even made it out of college.You guys are sorely missing men like Eisenhower....
Republican, never said Eisenhower was a democratic, please do not miss quote me....that leaves us with 2 presidents who served since WW11 who are Republican...That's a fact....
Thanks for the laugh citychick. You must have been asleep from 1988-1992. There is a reason why they call them Bush 41 and Bush 43. Also, Ford was a Republican.
I notice Strangerdanger has been missing. Is this forum being trolled by Proud Liberal? Maybe he did a Bruce/Caitlyn and transitioned?
It's funny but PL doesn't answer any substantive questions and keeps repeating the lie about kids in cages. No matter how many times you repeat a lie, it doesn't make it true.
"Maybe he did a Bruce/Caitlyn and transitioned?"
Or an iHob? LOL
No way, PL is nowhere near SD's skill level of obfuscate & confuse LOL. Give SD some credit.
So nice to have a president who is putting America's interest first.
Glad to see that there are negotiations between us and North Korea after so many decades.
Perhaps now we will be able to stop paying for patrolling the wall between North and South Korea.
Maybe we could put some of that money back into the budget to build and Patrol our own border wall and keep MS-13 from coming here again after we clear them out of here.
Trump has made many wonderful changes.
Imagine how many more good things could be accomplished if the GOP and the negative newscasters would stop trying to attack everything he says or does...
Trump already declared NK is NO Longer a Nuclear Threat. If he declared it,we should all believe it
Herein lies the insanity - there are people who are rooting for Kim Jong-un to back out of this deal or keep building up his nuclear weapon arsenal, and keep testing just to make our president look bad .
even worse rooting for our economy to tank, in their effort to get rid of Trump.
Bill Maher last Friday "we need a recession, and we need a recession fast. Sorry, if people get hurt, but we need a recession to get rid of Trump."
De Niro at the Tony Awards with the F-bomb a couple of times and getting a standing ovation for it.
I will go the WH or trump tower and kissed trump's feet the day UN inspection team declares NK destroyed all its nukes. If that happened, he needs to get 1000 Nobel Prizes.
Trump did a good job for atleast bringing NK to the table but the denuclearization process has not started yet and its premature to declare NK is no longer a nuclear threat.
Trump did promised Kim NK of development of hotels,condos and real estates. Are we as tax payers ready for our govt to pour in aid to invest there? All i am saying is he did a good job,better than other presidents on NK,but he should just shut up praising Kim and NK and must be careful that we don't give away too much for little baby steps they take.
Here ya go - no playing politics here eh: https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2018/06/12/fox-news-obama-trump-coverage.cnn
Both CNN and foxnews play pro and anti trumps. Nothing new! Bill maher was wrong to wish for recession and deNiro should have not cursed and used "F" word but should have said his views more thoughtfully on policies that he don't like as he is entitled to that. Everyone-celebs,news pundits,comedians;republicans or democrats : pro and anti-trump have used derogatory words to slam both obama and trump, and this should stop. Debate is good but not name calling and wishing bad for common people.
I am still wary of Kim Jong-un actually delivering but if Trump gets nuclear inspection teams in NK by October it will be huge win for the world.
with the MSM the way it is I ignore the words and just pay attention to actions.
1. there was a meeting
2. NK released hostages
3. US and SK halted war games operations.
future committed deliverables:
1.Korean war remains returned to US
2. dismantling of missile launch sites (quid pro quo for halting war games.)
left to discuss:
1. Kim Jong-un commits to a date where nuclear inspectors can show up and prove the nuclear program is dismantled , then the US will elevate some of the sanctions.
2. Kim Jong-un will allow some external businesses to operate in NK and get a taste for capitalism and trade with SK. they enjoy prosperity and this is check against China.
Capitalism a gateway drug to democracy. While the press and the left may laugh at McDonalds and hotels in NK, that and Levis brought down the USSR and does more to ensure peace then all the nuclear inspections and military operations combined.
"Capitalism a gateway drug to democracy. While the press and the left may laugh at McDonalds and hotels in NK, that and Levis brought down the USSR and does more to ensure peace then all the nuclear inspections and military operations combined."
There's truth in that. Did you guys see the movie the WH produced to basically "show" North Korea why it would be a good idea to play ball with the US/join the rest of the civilized world?
Brilliant diplomacy. I've seen CNN calling this Trump "playing" Kim, but it's not- because it's TRUE. This TRULY IS an opportunity for North Korea... and NK will be a better place, and the world will be a better place for it, and Trump AND Kim will be the heroes for it.
Yes, trump did a very good job on getting american prisoners released. That's a goodwill gesture from NK. I don't have prooblem with Trump halting war games,there's nothing lost if we halt it.And if NK returns remains of US and allies soldiers,that would be big achievement for trump with their families and the countries. And the only major concern is hugh investment in NK. Which country will invest there is big test in itself. When Kim's family has imposed so many restrictions on their people and they are so poor and on top of that brainwashed for generations. China and SK already invest there in small sectors I guess. Its unlikely that Europeans or any other country will invest there because NK is a totally different species altogether- their leaders live in paranoia and apprehension with the entire population brainwashed. I would say only time would tell. But only main thing we should be concerned about is complete denuclearization with UN inspection. If that is achieved, trump deserves every credit for that.
JR: Fox also said so many things on obama. So, CNN is for Obama and Foxnews is for trump. We all know that. So, i guess we are done with fox,cnn here
"So, i guess we are done with fox,cnn here"
Actually, no: you should go the OTHER way: listen to ALL the sources at your disposal, and cross-reference them with each other. Removing information sources only makes one more ignorant. You have to include ALL sources, seek ALL information on an issue, so that when you form an opinion, it's an educated one.
"Actually, no: you should go the OTHER way: listen to ALL the sources at your disposal, and cross-reference them with each other. Removing information sources only makes one more ignorant. You have to include ALL sources, seek ALL information on an issue, so that when you form an opinion, it's an educated one."
Funny, well do you JR? Do you practice what you preached? Forget NK topic only,do you listen to ALL sources? MSM or fox makes your "All sources". I don't think you have or intend to. If you want to talk about CNN,please start a separate thread.
NK has $6Trillion in untapped natural resources they can’t get out of the ground and a highly disciplined cheap work force - expect to see a Foxconn fab for your iPhone there in the future
If NK prosper without the nukes, everyone will be happy and trump should take credit for destroying the nukes. A NK without nukes is world peace because a war in korean peninsula will draw in china,us and russia like it did in korean war. And Asia will have devasting effect if nuke is ever dropped on Korea. Thats why I believe trump is doing a good job in getting NK to meet at the table. An industralised NK is good for NK and its people to value democracy and their rights. Foxconn or mc donalds or steel or other industries all are welcome as long as that kim don't become paranoid about his own safety and start isolating its people again. Lets hope they choose prosperity instead of war
CNN's viewership continues to drop. You can thank the likes of Van Jones who called Trump supporters racists the night Trump won with his "White Washing" monologue. That was the last time I tuned into that station. I was disgusted after listening to that moron... Chris Cuomo and Don Lemon do a good job of pushing people away too.
MetsMan: Pls don't watch it. You don't have to. Pls use your remote to switch the channels. People who don't like fox do that,so you should do the same about cnn.
The topic North Korea is turning into a discussion on CNN,so sad! NK is more important than CNN and fox folks.
Metsman, I agree with your van jones comments. “What we saw tonight was a whitewashing!” Uh, really? The same white people in the same areas of the same midwestern swing-states voted for Obama twice. The same people. Within a 4 year span they all suddenly turned hate-filled and racist? That’s why Hillary lost? That was a surreal moment. I couldn’t believe he was saying it. Hillary was the worst candidate the Democratic Party had ever fielded. She represented to most of America the furthest we were going to let this PC/socialist/leftist experiment go. Oh, and she called half of the population “deplorable.”
lets remember - NK happened as a vestige of WW II. Korea was annexed by Japan as a colony (1910-1945). we turned around after WW II split the country at the 38th parallel and gave half to the USSR and let the 2 Koreas wage war for 3 years.. meanwhile we engaged in heavy Ariel bombardment of NK during the war. The only investment in the country was via the USSR and China - well we all know what happened to the USSR.
Skip ahead -nearly 100% of their GDP is dedicated to military spending - they have a 1.2 million member cadre military and 7.7 million reserves, it's time to close this loop and bring them into the fold beating china to the investment punch.
BlueYale the difference is Fox has 3 times as many people watching them than CNN. I wonder why... And I have used my controller. I choose not to turn on fake news. They showed their true colors since the election. Their heads have exploded multiple times.
That being said, the likes of CNN will continue to bash Trump even if he achieves what no other President has. Peace on the Korean peninsula.
"Funny, well do you JR?"
Why would I recommend it if I did not do it myself? I have even USED CNN as a link source on this forum, because I know you lefties can't disagree with it LOL.
"The topic North Korea is turning into a discussion on CNN,so sad! NK is more important than CNN and fox folks."
I agree! So what do you think of the NK agreement, BlueYale? What do you think of Trump accomplishing more (so far) than any other president regarding NK?
Metsman :I understand cnn and other MSM viewers think same about foxnews that fox is faux news,trump personal propaganda mouthpiece. Fox viewers think cnn and msm are fake news. Well this will go on and on
What can we do? Either unsubscribe cnn or change channel. I would advise Mr trump to do the same. Why waste tweets on fakenews? I mean CNN get all the attention worldwide every time he tweets about them. That will be headlines worldwide. Why give them that attention if you don't like it and it's fake?
JR: I said trump achieved so far in releasing americans,convincing NK to return the remain of allies soldiers and bringing Kim himself to the table to talk. The main point of NK- rest of denuclearization is to been seen. Its a long road ahead. If you want my opinions on NK, its all over this thread. I am signing off.
Switch off to, unsubscribe or change channel. Plain and simple
I'm pretty sure you'll find a hell of a lot more bullsh*t news articles from CNN than you will see from Fox. That's why their ratings continue to plummet.
How is "Fake News" fake when you hear it straight from the mouth or ever-changing stories and Tweets of him?
"I'm pretty sure you'll find a hell of a lot more bullsh*t news articles from CNN than you will see from Fox. That's why their ratings continue to plummet."
While I agree there is truth to that statement... the people didn't vote for Trump because HE started calling the MSM fake news, they voted for him because the people ALREADY knew that, Trump just said what they were thinking/feeling. Ditto on many of his campaign promises. That's how people get elected. CNN and leftist cronies (like Mauer, Kimmel, and Behar) try to convince people that Trump himself came up with the term "fake news", to use that as some kind of a "weapon" against him (NONE of their "weapons" have worked yet!), but he did not coin the phrase. It was in the lexicon before Trump used it.
there are so many crazy stories that come up, it seems like every other day!! one tops the next out of his mouth, to keep your ears off the last one, about what the new one is. It is called "Wagging the dog" :
The phrase 'Wag the Dog' is used to indicate that attention is purposely being diverted from something of greater importance to something of lesser importance. Example of Use: “He's wagging the dog to keep you from discovering the truth about the car wreck.”Jan 1, 2013.
at least with CNN, you hear the voice, you see the tweets, and it's concrete.
....does FOX even play the wacko occurences by audio or hard copy pictures? withholding.
Just wanted to bump this up as I enjoy reading comments from people suffering from severe cases of TDS (Trump Derangement Syndrome).
I love the comment by that idiot Acosta on CNN calling Trump and Kim a bromance. You don't get more deranged than that. What is wrong with people...
How about Acosta yelling stuff to Kim during the talks. Like the talks are not sensitive enough
"I love the comment by that idiot Acosta on CNN calling Trump and Kim a bromance. You don't get more deranged than that. What is wrong with people..."
I guess that means that Obama and the Muslim Brotherhood must have been having a bromance, judging by their visits to the White House...
Obama and the Muslim Brotherhood was more than a bromance. It was a Caligula-like orgy!
This is for P LIBERAL....
I'm sorry I'm unable to call you that. For some reason I feel the name doesn't do you justice.
I for one an a Trump supporter and as you will find I am neither a hillbilly nor am I uneducated. Perhaps and this is just a suggestion, only my opinion, that possibly you could at least write one sentence that you refrain from calling Republicans names, using vulgarity, and not be so indignant with people that don't agree with you. Possible with less opinion and more facts in your rebuttal?
I love a good debate, but I also demand the facts. Now what do I mean by facts?... Well, typically a "fact" includes the normal who, what, when, where, and how information. With a very well thought out rebuttle answer. Like for example President Trump. or in your case the one that didnt win.
At any rate i really tried to follow your posts and understand exactly what it was you were trying to say. Unfortunately you lost me with the "dreams of grandeur" you were trying to pass off as facts. I believe, now again this is only my thought, that perhaps if you studied the history of politics, presidential elections, as well as all of the U.S. presidents. Especially Lincoln, I believe he will surprise you. This one area of knowledge is the most exciting it is called what "Democracy" in our great nation actually stands for
.Then more than likely you will be better equipped to respond to the dozens of people that were just as confused as I by the unsubstantiated facts you gave only supporting them by your uninformed opinions. :)
I moved on and so should you. I refuse to waste anymore time on this thread. Anybody who disrespects our friend and Canada but says North Korea's leader is an intelligent man and Pat's on the back... I will not support. The North Korean leader murders people for watching Hollywood movies while the so-called president gave attitude to the Canadian leader who is our Allied and friend. Something is seriously wrong right there again I'm not wasting my time on this thread because it's useless. Time to move on. We will have to agree to disagree. I have no respect for Trump the way he treats people and the way that he's screwing the American people and the treatment of others. It's crazy and insane heartbreaking and ridiculous. I'm not wasting my time on this particular thread.
Nothing to do with the conversation at hand but this is what I have to go through as an immigrant. One day I went to lunch with my family my children which is 4 of them. I had this horrible horrible gentleman tell me in front of my children that Trump is going to send us back two or wherever we came from and that this restaurant does not take food stamps. I'm not saying all Trump supporters are like this at all before you lose your hat but this is what me and my fellow immigrants go through this has nothing to do with the conversation but I want to bring attention to what we have to deal with. And on a side note I do not accept any assistance as a or anything of that nature and unfortunately this is one incident that I've had encountered throughout the years. I am just enjoying time with my children in my family minding my own business
Move on already then!!!!!!
I am moving on...not wasting any more time
trump trump trump
I am moving on...not wasting any more time
trump trump trump
I am moving on...not wasting any more time
You just cannot and will not give up your false claims which you think are "facts"
I was responding to charmer thank you very much and I decided to share a story that was an inappropriate from a trump supporter. Because Trump shows horrible intentions to immigrants that people thinks it's okay because he's the leader of the country
While Justin "Sticky Eyebrows " Trudeau is PM, Canada is not our ally. He, like Merkel, is a traitor to his own people. I am thankful that Trump sees them for what they are and will not allow them to continue to take advantage of the US.
Jym so let me get this right you think the North Korean leader is a great person like Trump said?
Well charmer you are wrong. You are very wrong. You know my kind? And I did vote !! Heck yeah I voted I voted for the Democrat Party. We need to go Democratic way. There's no way in heck I would not vote and have trouble with his crazy loonies and office. And I am illegal and I do have children so that just shows you that you're wrong. Your name is charmer you should change it because there's nothing Charming about you. And I know you're kind to your party the one who are the silly Trump ad that was made in China LOL seriously you don't know anything about me and my family except that I'm standing up for immigrants and how they're treated
I'll even show you my paperwork just to prove you wrong. It's people like you who make the world a sad place. Pardon my mistake I am legal and if you would like to meet in a public place I would love to show you my paperwork
PS S... Youre English has improved drastically in the last 30 min. Ghost writer? lol
@PL " And I am illegal and I do have children so that just shows you that you're wrong. "
Ok....so you are illegal?
No to be honest with you I found out on my phone you can do the text to talk. But seriously if you're interested if you would like to meet in a public place I would love to show you my paperwork to prove you wrong because I have nothing to hide. So your allegations are false
And I will share my story with you as well as the many other stories I know from other immigrants. I would love to share it with you and others were interested
You know what the more I've been thinking about it I want to make a public apology for my curse words and my name calling I still don't like or agree with Trump or the people who support him but I should have held back on my curse words and name-calling so you know what I do a publicly apologize I think is the word that I'm looking for apologize? I have to look that word up. I still feel like Trump should be doing more for immigrants but I should have said it in a non name-calling way and I am sorry for that
Pl- After a few days of thought, I have come to the conclusion you don't know any better. As you say you have only been in this country since Obama was in office. You have no "real" knowledge of our culture. You are comparing Trump to Obama because that's all you know. You haven't lived worked or voted through any prior US Presidents. So everything you read you believe true because you have not experienced years and years of freedom and democracy. If you had, you would not present yourself as you do. There are many PL on this site. But none come across the way you do with your words. Yours are very nasty and vulgar. I don't think that's you talking. But I think it's what you read and assume it's acceptable by society to be so vulgar towards a sitting president and your fellow citizens. You have every right not to support Trump and I have no plans on trying to change your mind. If you want others to hear you and respect your thoughts and feelings, do so in your own words and don't copy the way others express themselves. It's very ugly.
Aunt read up top I did Apologize for my vulgar and name-calling I'm just very passionate I guess and when people say that I'm here illegally when it's not true kind of makes me angry but again I did apologize for name-calling and curse words
"And I am illegal and I do have children" what happened to your offer to fax documents? guess the guy in the restaurant was correct.
" I'm standing up for immigrants" - no your demanding us to ignore your criminal behavior and that of those like you. If an American citizen commits a federal crime they are going to prison without their kids why should people coming into the country illegally get better treatment
Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
build the wall
No, PL, that's not what I said. I am not a fan of Kim Jong Un. But neither do I trust Trudeau, Merkel, et.al. I don't see everything and everyone in the black and white terms like that. But I was and continue to be disgusted by the way the US became the world bank and toilet. I appreciate some of the changes Trump has made to fix that. Unfortunately, no one is perfect. But there was no way I could see to vote for Hillary and I hope that we never become like modern Europe and Canada.
I offered to fax no one took me off on that where offer I would prefer to meet in public though so I get my personal information not all over
I even have a passport! Could not do that if you are illegal. But seriously if you feel the need I would love to meet up with you show you my paperwork or my passport and I would like to have a conversation about my life and the life of my fellow friends if your interested let me know we can meet over coffee my treat. The laws have to be changed my personal feeling what are you doing this weekend you want to meet for coffee? I would love to get to meet some friends and share my story and show you my passport.
Thank you for your support reasonable I've noticed that too but I'm so used to getting made fun of by people that it doesn't even bother me much anymore but you're right. It saddens me that people think that I'm not here legally because I'm not like them but I really am and I took the citizen test and I probably know more from taking that test that many people but thank you for your support
"I refuse to waste anymore time on this thread."
You keep using that word, "refuse". I do not think it means what you think it means.
I will meet anybody in person for over a cup of coffee my treat charmer Skippy since you two seem to be the most not believing me let's meet up this weekend for coffee. I can show you that I'm legal that I'm not taking any assistance and that him and normal human being just like you with thoughts and feelings. And have the same goals that they just want to raise their family and a nice place and have their friends safe and have their basic needs met just like you do for your family. Skippy you said that I didn't offer to fax anything I'm telling you I am inviting you so you can see who I am so I can prove to you and charmer that you are wrong. I would love to share my stories with anybody who's interested you would just be amazed you really would and I think you would gain a lot of knowledge. Open invitation for anybody coffee on me
To answer Proud Liberal why Trump isn’t kissing our allies butts… That’s because they screw us in trade agreements. He wants something fair and they’re all crying about it like spoiled children. He’s being nice to Kim because he’s trying to get the guy to get rid of his nukes. How soon people forget he was calling him little rocket man and said NK would be obliterated if they made a bad move. You know what, so far that rhetoric has worked out. Kim decided he wanted to negotiate. So we’ll see where this goes, but if Kim doesn’t follow through don’t expect Trump to be nice.
Jefferson that was the case but when charmer and Skippy came back on saying these horrible horrible horrible things and they are truly truly truly wrong and I would like to prove it to them so they learn and so they can see that they are wrong and educate them that is all
Everyone take a deep breath, or better yet take break and go out and enjoy the sunshine for at least a few minutes? It's a really beautiful day out. Political views aren't reasons for anyone to 'hate' someone else, or get that worked up over. It's JUST politics... nothing more. We all need to remember that sometimes... maybe?
(Just my 2 cents.)
If you say you’re legal I believe you - you said you were not hence the post. If you came here legally more power to you
+1 Rebecka. But to be fair and truthful, PL did start this whole mess, with her potty mouth.
Jefferson did you not read my apology. And how about the people who attacked me saying that I'm here illegally when I'm not. And when I try to prove it to them all of a sudden they disappear? Like Skippy said that I offered to fax but I didn't fax well in order to fax something over I would need a fax number correct? Or I prefer to meet in person to make sure my information is not getting around so I am really just proving them wrong. And there was a horrible memes about me being an immigrant posted and also I've been attacked and accused of being on public assistance? So what do you have to think about that is it because I'm an immigrant that those things are okay? Do you have done to me
I may have had a potty mouth but I've also been verbally attacked with pictures of immigrants and horrible things saying I'm illegal and I am on assistance when I'm not none of those things are true
Thank you Skippy yes my post I made an error and they won't let you edit unless it was last post on the thread that's why I had to State it in my second thread
I said you STARTED it, which you did. Kind of hard to have sympathy for someone having stones thrown at them when they were the first one throwing.
This firestorm was of your making. Next time, maybe think before you type to ensure you aren't starting another one? Just friendly advice.
I think delusions exist because perception is encompassing reality.
Take; for example, the POTD. When he says everything is great or he gives it a 10, what do you think he means? Does he like to fight? Does he like chaos? Is it great because it means he's getting his way, maybe messing with his enemies? Does it mean it's great because he ruined something he doesn't like, in order to rebrand it and to have it done his way?
Maybe great to him, is building a mountain of corpses to rule upon his way. Or, maybe not.
Point is, you can't know unless you use Quantum Physics techniques to measure his electrical brain patterns that operate on a quantum level, and translate that quantum entanglement going on in the brain into something that could be interpreted into language.
In my perspective, he's going against a group of people that gave him a hard time. Doing business with people that were being punished by these groups. Punishing people that were probably in his view stealing with all these "bad deals".
It reminds me of the cycle of societies. It's almost done exactly like farming on plots of land.
@JR - PL apologized. You have to respect anyone who has the courage to say publicly, "Sorry, I was wrong." Forgive and forget, I say, and go get some sun. Now. All of you. ;-)
LOL you are right about one thing Jefferson about not swearing my first post that's the only thing I drive my husband about is sports teams he likes the Yankees I like the Mets so we have friendly competitions about that LOL we do have friendly bad son whose team wins the other person has to do the dishes
As a working mother in this country I worry about "home" first. The children and adults that live here are my concern. Not helping illegals. I see homeless people, I see my child's friends come to my home to eat because they are low on food. I see people losing their jobs, I see homes being repossessed, I see my child's classmates in shelters..All here in my backyard... So no, your story didn't enlighten me because I don't care.
If, which i doubt, but lets say if you are legal why not do everything in your power to accumulate yourself and your family to the ways of the USA.
You have been here quite sometime, but yet you haven't learned to read or write English, what have you done for your community, do your children know English, do they know the history? I'm saying this because all I hear from you is Trump this and Trump that? You're facts are not facts, Remember we here in America value knowledge.
I tried in my first post to speak to you in kind, but for me I am no longer charming when I hear someone put down my country and say they only care about illegals. If you care that much perhaps you should go to wherever you are from and help at home. That is unless my country offers too much for free for you and you would rather bash my president and my people. You are not a citizen, I dont need to see your green card. Marriage doesn't make you a citizen so save it for someone who cares.
I am not, will not, and have never been a follower who is politically correct. Why do I have to hide the fact that No, I dont give a rats behind about any criminals.
I lived overseas many years ago and my family didnt have the luxury of having time to learn the customs. One month you learn the language or you were ignored. They didnt bend for us, we accumulated to them or else we were screwed.
She apologized alright... on her 54th post. LOL
I'll give her the benefit of the doubt... future actions will speak louder than words...
Not that I feel like I owe you an explanation but I will share with you. I'm not in any assistance in fact all three of my older children go to a private school which we pay fully and for. I went through college got my associate's and will be taking more classes in the fall. When my 2 year old is old enough she will also attend the private school that we fully pay for. I was an American citizen before I met my husband so I debunked that yes I learned a new word reading this thread by the way. I volunteer at my churches soup kitchen and before I had my children I worked full-time but now I'm a full-time stay-at-home mother while my husband works full-time and no we do not accept any type of assistance but we do give to Charities locally and monthly we donate to the food pantry. I did take ESL classes before I went to college but as I struggled with some learning issues my English is not perfect and I'm still learning and yes my children know English they were born here and they continue to learn at their prestigious private school. So those horrible allegations you said about me are wrong just to let you know I think I answered all your questions I will go back and reread it though. I teach my children about helping and being kind to others especially the less fortunate and my children give away 10% of their allowance to a charity of their choosing. Monthly so I think I'm doing a good job being American mother.
Apparently you didn't read my first post a few up from that one you showed. Also if you read the post you quoted. It clearly states the reason I chose to speak like that.
Continue to skim the posts knowledge is power... :)
my bad Jefferson I didnt see it until my post posted... No worries Ill go back to my charming self now :)
PL well at least you like the Mets. You get to suffer with me with how bad they are.
No no... my post was directed at Yosemite Sam. I should say specifically who I'm talking to...
I wonder if they become close, if KJU will cease from k-illing his own family and staff.
from what I have heard, some of the immigrants get upset with the laws here and how we inforce them. You knew very well before coming into this country of the laws and how we inforce them. It’s been this way for years, it was even worse back then to get in. If you even had so much of a red eye they would not let you come to America, but the laws have changed a lot and made it easier for immigrants to come to the us legally, yet thousands of immigration come here and then complain about how the us is run, no one is making you come to the us illegally, people is doing that on their own accord. Yet I always hear complaints. It’s the immigrants actions, either come here legally and enjoy the American lifestyle or get booted back to where ever you are from, and that’s no ones fault but the illegals that come here. It’s the law, it’s there for a reason, it’s not there for anyone to just think they can go above it. Just by doing that proves how much respect people have for America, little to none. If they just throw this law out the window who is to say they are throwing other laws out the window. And I’m not saying all immigrants come here illegally, many of them do the correct thing and follow the law, but others seem to not know right from wrong and only want to do what they want to do no matter the consequences and then complain about it when it was their decision in the first place
And for the record I am charmers daughter:)
What's going on? Why won't anyone meet with Proud Liberal for coffee?
Isn't this something that we'd like our president to do and most importantly isn't it a civil way, the right thing to do?
"Why won't anyone meet with Proud Liberal for coffee?"
Because nobody wants to hear a tyrant of fabricated information and listen to how bad ILLEGAL immigrants are treated? PL's posts clearly showed her mindset....she reads right past any factual information on the forum, I am sure it would be no different person to person so it's not even worth the time.
Maybe because she's not being very nice. How about she drops the racism rhetoric and sounds more reasonable. No one needs third degree burns from her throwing her coffee in their face because she decides to have a breakdown.
It was just a question. Might be surprised how civil people can be when they are not at a keyboard...
It's easier for them to believe what Fox News tells them about immigrants when they don't actually know any
Proud Liberal said she was legal and charmer then proceeded to tell her she should be in jail, she's "seen her kind", that she's on food stamps, given free insurance, and that she somehow was given a free house (that's my favorite).
I wasn’t referring to Proud Liberal but rather your (and others) general comments on how we are anti “immigrant”. I don’t care how nice someone may be, if they are here illegally that’s a crime.
Reasonable....to be fair...PL also claimed (it seems unintentionally) that she was here ILLEGALLY, and that she and her family is on food stamps....just read through the posts
Went through the whole thread, in 7 different posts she states that she's legal, passed a citizen test, etc. and in 1 post she typed she was illegal (assumed to be accidental) and in her next post, corrects the mistake. You really weren't sure?
"Proud Liberal said she was legal and charmer then proceeded to tell her she should be in jail, she's "seen her kind", that she's on food stamps, given free insurance, and that she somehow was given a free house (that's my favorite)."
Which was SO MUCH WORSE than all the crap PL said above (apology or not).
Please. If you're going to dish it out, you have to be willing to take it. No double-standards, despite what you're used to. If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen.
Reasonable I clearly saw she said she’s legal, that isn’t the issue. She’s coming on here calling people who voted for Trump racists. I voted for Trump and I know I’m not racist. I’ve had relationships with women of a different race so I take offense to that. That’s as bad as Hillary calling us all deplorable. How’d that work out for her? The left continues with that rhetoric and people are tired of hearing it because it simply isn’t true. There are people who are racist on both sides. You really think some of the inner city democrats of color aren’t racist at all? Cmon… White people aren’t the only race that can be racist...
Being a Trump voter, probably white, and I'm guessing either a conservative or moderate, you don't have the privilege of being offended.
Yes JeffRep, saying racist remarks is so much worse than calling people out for saying those racist things. Is that really up for debate?
If you'd care to read the thread, you'd see PL was the FIRST person calling others racist.
I will not allow the double-standard from you or anyone else go unchallenged.
Reasonable... you are being pretty unreasonable and not following the chain of events properly.
Yawn....okay...North Korea anyone?
Not much more to say... we'll just have to wait and see how it plays out. Fingers crossed.
Oh... Trump HAS been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize, BTW.
I am telling you, Metsman, I said it yesterday- StrangerD is "transitioning".
I'm not sure what he's changing into, but it will be a doozy for sure.
Trump. Has been nominated. For the Nobel Peace Prize.
Ok I did not know that. Obviously I don't follow the news that closely.
Oh what the heck, Obama was given it before he even did anything, right? So why not, I suppose...
Holy crap my head is spinning now.
Trump and 330 other people have been nominated thus far this year. Trump was nominated by two anti-immigrant Norwegian politicians. The nomination process is pretty loose, to put it mildly.
"The nomination process is pretty loose, to put it mildly."
So must the awarding process be, if Obama got it for basically nothing:
"reaching out to the Muslim world"
"promotion of nuclear non-proliferation" (Iran deal, anyone? HAHAHA)
"So must the awarding process be, if Obama got it for basically nothing...."
Couldn't agree more as far as the "peace prize" goes. Physics and Chemistry are the only two I have any interest in.
Loose nomination policy (and awarding policy, in Obama's case) indeed. I would just wish anyone being nominated or awarded (right, left, center or from the moon) would actually have accomplished something before "Nobel Prize" gets thrown around, that's all. Trump may indeed deserve the prize if denuclearization is accomplished, but it's a little bit early to tell!
And he has since passed, but I was actually friends with a Nobel Prize winner. I just think it "cheapens" the prize if people are nominated or awarded without concrete accomplishments.
RIP Bob. You are remembered by the world for the prize you won, but remembered by those of us who knew you as the most humble, gentle and caring of men.
"Since the 1970s researchers have understood that the role of the innermost layer of blood vessels, the endothelium, goes beyond protection. In 1980 Robert Furchgott showed that the ability of blood vessels to contract or expand disappeared if the endothelium was removed. He concluded that a substance that causes expansion was formed in this layer. In 1986 he and Louis Ignarro, independently of each other, demonstrated that this substance was nitrous oxide (NO). The discovery has made possible new medications, such as those used to treat heart and cardiovascular diseases and impotence."
So, he's ultimately the one to blame for all the boner meds? Lived to the ripe old age of 93, too. A life well lived, it seems.
You got it! (And the same meds perhaps more importantly went to help peoples' heart conditions.). But now all you guys know whom to thank for your Viagra! ;-)
At least he did something good to get nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize. Kudoes to him for that! And I give him that, if things work out soon and in the long run!
On his bad side of the coin, next to see if he gets fined in any of his many defendant lawsuits, or dethroned , or wind up in jail, or impeached........that is if he doesn't attempt to use a "Criminal Pardon" on himself and a good part of his staff! what the hell is going on in this world?!?? you commit a crime, you pay, you don't pardon yourself, your lawyer, your right-hand man and many others on your staff. Don't make me ill.
some didn't want Hillary, but what the hell did his Apprentice fans vote into Head Office? UGH!!
Whitehouse responds to separating families at the border with quotes from American families being permanently separated from their loved ones murdered by illegal aliens.
There is no evidence we are treating anyone cruelly. Adults arrive here undocumented and can’t even prove these kids belong to them. The separation of the children from the adults is also for the children’s safety. The kids are getting 3 hots and a cot, along with video games and other donations - which is more than our homeless vets are getting.
"And he has since passed, but I was actually friends with a Nobel Prize winner. I just think it "cheapens" the prize if people are nominated or awarded without concrete accomplishments."
Agreed. But then, we give out "participation trophies" and play sports games without keeping score now.
I wonder when the NFL will quit keeping score?
"Lived to the ripe old age of 93, too. A life well lived, it seems."
it looks like for him the No (Nitric oxide) actually worked well. Good blood flow is good for a long life. (reducing stress also works wonders). Interesting to know and you can increase the level of No (Nitric oxide) in your blood by eating right and using a simple to make stack of vitamin supplements.
No (Nitric oxide) can be increased in the the blood stream by consuming foods that contain a lot of arginine. Asparagus and watermelon both have naturally high levels of arginine, so eat up.
Taking magnesium , zinc and B6 together (you can add an arginine supplement to this as well) will greatly increase the levels of No (Nitric oxide) in the bloodstream,
Weight lifters have known this for a long time, I pass it along to you all for your own use.,
So back on topic - Re: North Korea
We'll see what we see, the ground is set for historic and beneficial, positive changes on the Korean peninsula.
The potential upside of this is too good to ignore or dismiss just because you don't happen to like President Trump. So stop it already with the baseless racism charges, the nonsensical hate filled rants, why not give the guy credit for something positive?
".that is if he doesn't attempt to use a "Criminal Pardon" on himself and a good part of his staff! "
Sigh. He'd have to actually be indicted first, AND found guilty I think, in order to use a Presidential pardon on himself. Let's stick to things that have ACTUALLY HAPPENED instead of hypotheticals.
I mean, hypothetically, Obama could run again, win, and let the Muslim Brotherhood take over America like they have the UK. "what the hell is going on in this world?" LOL
Let me add to that - you can’t indict a sitting president. He would need to be impeached and then charged and then pence would need to do it akin to ford / Nixon. He can however pardon himself in advance but it makes no sense to do so as it’s admitting guilt
How are many of his staff are charged with things and soon/ on trial and/or in jail, and he doesn't know a darn thing about anything at all (!) and what they are charged for? Would they do things w/o his okay, concerning him. pleeze. lol.
He's told sooo many lies, you can't believe any words that come out of his mouth.
I do give him a lot of credit for the NK meeting. Let's hope something(s) come good out of it, now and forever.
"The kids are getting 3 hots and a cot, along with video games and other donations - which is more than our homeless vets are getting."
So why are our homeless vets not getting any help?
Is it the Republicans or the Democrats not helping the vets who put their lives on the line for Americans?
Would these vets been better off having "heel spurs?"
My guess is that we have been involved in a war continuously for the last 27 years and there are an overwhelming amount of veterans - I think both parties need to make veterans a priority they have been treated as disposable by numerous administrations both republican and Democrat. To use a JITism - republicrats have failed them
The law is pretty clear on the matter. The POTD can be sued in civil court within scope of the written law. Congress would have to choose to impeach, which could only be based on written reasons for impeachment as written in the law. And, according to Congress, it would only impeach if members felt like it. So, theoretically a POTD could commit an act which is impeachable, but Congress could choose to ignore/resist it. Though, I don't think Congress could legally choose to overlook the matter.
And, members of the Legislature branch both the House and Senate, should only ever enact the will of the majority of people in their State they represent. So, if you got your party elected, you call your elected official, and tell them you voted for them if you did. And, what you think on matters. Otherwise, they will just do whatever they want or what a Ranking member orders them to carry out or what some wealthy group wants that told them what they thought on matters.
And, in regards to Racism there are billions of people that think they are better than others. Just by them being more than others: more wealthier, more intelligent, more attractive, more religious, being of the proper religion, etc. I would even bet there are people in this world that wouldn't consider you "Human" if your ancestors mixed with Neanderthals.
And, slavery/racism isn't new a concept that only affects one race at a particular moment. It affects every race of people at the same time. It's also deeper than that. It's genetic. To preserve one's genetic code. It's survival.
I don't have a strong viewpoint on racism. When I see people talking about themselves, their race or another race by a color I tend to believe those people are being racist.
Nothing you have noted is an excuse.
Neither party has ever solved this issue and neither party ever will. It costs money.
Bottom line is if you want to keep your body intact you avoid the armed services as a career with "heel spurs" or something like that. Or take the risk.
Don't depend on Republicans nor Democrats to take care of you when you are hurt.
Don't expect the American public to even say nice things about you when you come back, like in Vietnam.
Don't expect after you have been shot down and were a prisoner of war to be respected by the American public like John McCain.
Your chances are 50/50 you will be loved or hated, but your body may now be less than 100%.
It's the choice of the individual. To each their own.
Can one be racist against someone who is on food stamps? I apologize, this would be class discrimination.
Not up on those social terms. Sorry.
Did not know the expectation was that I provide an excuse - you asked me why I believe it is occurring. And you’re correct - we have not had a draft in 45 years - one sure way to avoid issues is not to participate. The military is a means to an end for many and consider the benefits such as free education and social mobility to be worth the rewards, however, we have thousands of not millions of broken disabled veterans who have been abandoned by our government.
Agreed with Hackresident. First it was nobody in campaign met with Russians or Russian ambassador,then it was well they met and it is about Russian adoption and backchannel to to talk about Syria crisis. Now, trump says witchhunt and refuses to be interviewed by Mueller while his own lawyers admitted he wrote Don jnr letter. And now he wants to pardon everyone and himself. He is the epitome of truthfulness and honesty and needs a Nobel prize for most truth spoken.
Most shocking point is today trump and Rudy sent a direct message to Manafort: "Hang in there,don't speak about trump cos I am going to pardon everyone who worked for my campaign prosecuted by Mueller at end of investigstions".
Why would trump and Rudy go all over fox and other news channel to talk about pardoning everyone including manafort on the DAY Manafort goes to jail? It reflects a lot about his innocence. Manafort is being sent to jail for witness tampering and why does trump feel sad about him as he said on TV,why feel sad about a man who work for him(he claims 45days) investigated for fraud and witness tampering that he and his spokeperson cum lawyer Rudy already talking about pardoning Manafort? Next is cohen. Why would trump do that in such a hurry? We all know Manafort can speak on trump tower meeting. Trump says he is a president of law and order. Well law and order don't apply to him and his campaign aides and team. They are above law,anyone in my team goes to jail,I will pardon him(trump says it before the case even begin).
Trump WH aides' and lawyers' declarations timeline order
1)No communication with russia
2)No communication *we are aware of*
3)No *planned or formal* communication
4)Planned meeting but not regarding campaign but adoption of kids
5)Was regarding campaign but no good or useful information
6)Trump never knew about the meeting until it broke in media
7)Colluding with foreign nationals is not crime as it's opposition research
8)Trump dictated letter about Russian kids adoption aka opposition research on HRC with Russians
9) trump can shut down any investigation against him and has authority to directly fire Mueller
20) Even if crime happened, trump has authority to pardon himself or anyone related to his campaign.
This speak of the VOLUME OF THE INNOCENCE PRESIDENT OF USA TO THE WORLD AND ALSO SPEAKS ABOUT OUR COUNTRY WHICH HE TURNED INTO BEST RATED BANANA REPUBLIC THAT HAS BECOME A REALITY SHOW ON Twitter
The Yale: THANK YOU. You say it as it happened, and how it REALLY IS, this bull crap of it all.
Let him be supenoned by every "Mueller" there is for every case and issue against or about him, and let him lie (perjury), or let him tell the truth, which he never will. Would rather keep dodging the kickball with a new Guiliani every few months.
I wouldn't be surprised that he and his lawyer Cohen and Manafort were told by him to not say anything derrogatory and the real truth about what occurred, then they can still get fined and thrown in jail, and then he probably said to them that he will Pardon all of them during the witness tapering phone calls that put Manafort in a holding jail.
We should all commit those crimes (and i'm sure there are Many more we aren't aware of yet until the detectives piece together Cohen's shredded documents and get more documents of what happened in that Russian meeting! (yeah, "a Russian Adoption.....") and then write to Ms. Kim Kardashian to get us out of the slammer with a Pardon!
Again, thank you Yale. I admire that you give the facts and tell it like it is. There's a lot more of us out there, some too afraid and quiet to comment.
Hackresident, you say thank you to The Yale for speaking the truth when what you really mean is for agreeing with your liberal bias. If you two think you know so much about Trump collusion why not apply for a job on Mueller's team where it might do some good instead of wasting your liberal blather here on the Forum.
We will never know the real truth about any of it.
Lawyers stacked on top of lawyers- best liars on the planet.
Let's just say that all of these muppets, democrat and republicans, don't care one bit about the middle class and will send you down the river in a heartbeat.
Both sides are overfilled with skeletons in their closets.
You know where there WAS collusion?
Collusion to rig the democrat primary to keep Bernie from having a chance, even tho he was more popular than Hillary.
Collusion with the FBI to insure Hillary won the general election.
The only collusion revealed by the Muller investigation so far is that high ranking members of the FBI coordinated and worked with elements of the Hillary campaign and Russian intelligence to affect the outcome of a presidential election.
Manafort's indictments predate his association with Trump and have no relation to the 2016 election.
Trump is doing the job he was elected for, and he is getting results and stacking up significant accomplishments on a daily basis. This is good for America.
Too many lies and twists to have the desire to get into his circle, just to get supenoed like Trump's beautiful Model spokeswoman got (I forget her name and her title, but she got the job because she was friends with Ivanka). Now an young, pretty Actress got the job...........
To explain a bit fuller: Manafort's indictments are for alleged actions that predate his association with the Trump campaign and have no relation to the 2016 election.
Manafort got hauled into prison for contacting a witness against him.
Also in fairness, Manafort was a Democrat, working for the Podestas, at the time of the crimes he was originally charged with.
To the extent that the indictment is an attempt to extort him into attacking Trump, the prosecution is politically motivated, unfair, and highly suspect, and should probably be dismissed. But that has nothing to do with his contacting a witness after being charged which is moronic
I think you're finally answering my question skippy. No matter any evidence, indictments, charges, etc. that may arise, Republicans and the right will see any movement against Trump as politically motivated, conspiracy, deep state, Democrats angry they lost, etc.
BC: I never said trump is guilty of anything! Why do you slur people who don't agree with your views as liberals! I am not a liberal,never was! I believe nobody is above the law-NOBODY! DO YOU DISAGREE WITH THAT?
THOSE WORDS I HAVE WRITTEN in my previous comments are ALL spoken words by trump,Rudy and WH aides. My words are last paragraph regarding the banana republic we have become.If anyone wants to refute the 10 timeline as fake can do so with appropriate proofs. I am here for healthy debate,not arguments without democrats and republicans pointers.
Mr trump went on TV to say paul Manafort has been unfairly treated, why would he say it for someone charged with money fraud and witness tampering (nothing to do with trump or Russian collusion issue) on the day Manafort is sent to jail (a man he claimed to be employed for only 45days)?When asked he would pardon him, he didn't say he wouldn't and said it's too early to say anything. But he sent out Rudy on several networks to say trump would pardon everyone related to his campaign at end of MUELLER investigstions! Isn't that interfering with the investigstions?Why would an innocent man so restless to pardon everyone on his team charged by investigators? Is asking this question make me liberal? Or should I just shut up like you and watch the trump show what rudy and he says next and just watch? So are these liberals views too, trying to defame trump? I never mentioned a word about collusion or indicated as such. The timelines and statements(1 to 10) can be verified through videos and press statements given by WH or campaign aides,RUDY and trump.
Don't try to put that excuse of liberal thing down my throat! I never said anything against trump. All I did was quote him! He EXONERATED himself on Twitter and declared he could pardon himself again on Twitter. NEVER HEARD OF AN INNOCENT MAN EXONERATING AND PARDONING HIMSELF BEFORE BEING CHARGED,HAVE YOU?
P.S: Me and HackResident don't need to apply for Mueller's team jobs like most Americans and rest of world get the same informations from Trump's Twitter and interviews on Fox, Rudy's interviews on all TV channels and Sarah Sanders press briefings. These are the information sources over time from where I quoted my previous comments. I didn't know you filter information out from Trump's, Rudy's, Sarah's briefing but they are NOT LIBERALS
Nothing is politically motivated, any of this Mueller investigation wouldn't have started if trump had not asked Comey to drop(which Comey claim he did) and next day talked on TV to talk about firing Comey because Russia investigations is getting too much. If Manafort is a Democrat, why did trump hire him for running the campaign of republican presidential campaign, wasn't it about draining the swamp and purging?
Mueller is doing his job he was appointed to, if he uncovers Manafort committed money fraud,tax fraud before he came to campaign,do you mean he should just let it go?Why? Because Mueller is slurred and accused of manipulating Manafort? What is in the book of law is being done by Mueller by bringing up a tax fraud case against Manafort. Trump claimed manafort worked for him for 45 days, why would he and Rudy go out on camera talked about unfair and pardoning everyone for a man who probably have nothing damaging on trump cos he worked for 45days only? Why would trump damage his own reputation and credibility of innocence by claiming unfair on the day Manafort goes to jail? The judge must have seen enough evidence than we have to come to conclusion. Why smear her for political purposes. The only thing doing around media is Manafort hasn't spoken about Don knr meeting lasting 5-10 minutes,he doesn't have to speak on that. Nobody in this world could force him to. After all Rudy is saying all over TV trump is going to pardon everyone to clean up Mueller investigations? Why do smear Mueller? He investigated something,but uncovered another crime, should he have let it go just like that? Because people will accuse him of leveraging to use that for flipping people? Well, Manafort doesn't need to flip if there was nothing useful offered and taken in Donald jnr meeting, but he is supposed to face trial for his previous tax fraud crime and face sentence if convicted. If there's nothing wrong done in the meeting of 5-10 minutes,there will never be any evidence admissible in court even if Mueller dig up till the core of the earth.
We do live in a banana republic I’ll give you thst
Manafort's crimes, and there apparar to be many, have nothing to do with Trump.
Obama said Hillary had done nothing wrong while the investigation was ongoing. Presidential sized thumb-on-the-scale. Crickets...
Trump says anything about the ongoing investigation and everyone in the establishment screams that he's interfering and "sending signals".
Comey's team allowed Hillary's co-conspirators to sit in on her interview and none of them were in jeopardy.
Hillary's It guy was given immunity, and he lied under oath and they didn't then squeeze him for all he was worth to further the investigation. Wasted immunity.
The IRS targeted conservatives and the bureaucrats paid no penalty.
Clear pro-Hillary bias among the FBI investigators into Hillary's foundation and email system and anti-Trump bias in the fake collusion bit - that is now suddenly an "obstruction of justice" case about firing Comey. This is even though everyone agrees he should have been fired and it was recommended by Rosenstein.
Comey listed Hillary’s crimes then said “No reasonable prosecutor” would indict her even though many said they would.
IG report just released lists volumes of clear signs of bias and the clear actions taken proving bias, then lies and in summary says there is no evidence that their bias affected the investigation. There is no real justice going on here.
My answer to the question: If trump is not criminal why did he hire a criminal?
Is a question
If mueller is not biased and attempting a coup why did he hire people who said they will stop trump presidency?
Well mueller fired them.. So did trump.
This has nothing to do with his role in the campaign. The current charges are of his own doing.
Personally I hope he gets religion and pulls podesta et all further into this. People deserve go to jail for crimes. Nobody is above the law - the partial application of justice in this whole saga is a disgrace to the nation
How many of his "Great People" have been fired by him? Or quit. Can you imagine having a Government Job and accumulating retirement, and then you work with this one, and you get fired, and can't collect your pension now or it's cut down?
His promises at election time were unrealistic. He was going to get down the USA's debt, yet we are many trillions (?) or billions more in debt now. Why? lol, if he's a good businessman (who hires contractors and then doesn't pay then, then uses their work in earning money on his many Casinos and skyscrapers and buildings in NY!!!
Building a wall would cost billions. We don't have it. Don't promise and state that Mexico said they would pay. They didn't. Don't LIE LIE LIE LIE.
Didn't he get off the ownership of one of the Beauty Pagents because he did something degrading to some of them? He called one of the ones that won Fat after she gained 10-20 pounds. What a jerk. Has he looked in the mirror?
He called Rosey Odonell a Fat Pig; that female reporter, he said that she had blood coming out of her "whatever". what kind of person is this??!
What else did he say to degrade women and men in the public eye? he is a BULLY and shouldn't have been voted into office with his Unrealistic promises and by his fans. Just listen to CNN News and you will hear audio recordings of the s--t he comes out with and the b.s. tweets he pens, and how he says one thing, then changes it a few days later. Why play both sides of the coin? So you can't get in trouble, or you don't know what the heck he is doing? And that Scarramucci that he hired to insult the ones that he wanted out, on public television.
He does not have a Political Science background and is not qualified to be where he was voted because of the opponent that some didn't like, or the Mueller investigation messed up Hillary's upcoming win. Someday he may get supeneod or his staff will tell the truth, and he will wind up in jail or fined or impeached.
I am not into politics: I am not a Republican or Democrat, I don't follow what my spouse and friends may think. I just have OPENED MY EARS into what has been occurring the last 2 years by him and his unqualified, lying staff. MSNBC doesn't play those audios or say what all his tweets are -- CNN does.
Hey Yale, go back and re=read your post "Trump says he is a president of law and order. Well law and order don't apply to him and his campaign aides and team. They are above law, anyone in my team goes to jail, I will pardon him(trump says it before the case even begin)". If that's not accusatory rhetoric I don't know what is.
Hillary case is investigated by IG, they feel they need not opened her case. Who's stopping trump and republicans to open it and investigate it all over again? Why so much whining and crying like babies over it? Obama is not anymore president,trump is. Why not open the case by executive order? Is he afraid he won't be able to cry and whine over it once opened? If you want Hillary's IT guy, he can be extradited at snap of a finger, who is stopping the investigation? Trump and republicans have been in power for almost two years now, don't you think if they can't investigate Hillary and obama, then they should stop whining, so should you.
You never answered my questions. Do you think and agree with trump manafort has been unfairly treated and needs to be pardon(for a crime not related to trump at all)?
Everyone screams and shout when trump said he's gonna pardon everyone and himself in his campaign at end of investigations! Do you feel that's appropriate for a president to say that? Do you think it's not obstructing the investigations, how? Answer me Skippy, do you think he has rights to forgive everyone in his team and also EXONERATED himself and pardon himself? Isn't that abuse of power? Never heard of an innocent man exonerating himself and pardoning himself before being charged with anything,have you Skippy? Pls answer it.
Storz and page said that before Mueller even came to picture, so don't lie... Stop lying. They talked about it before trump even got elected,so MUELLER was never in the picture. He fired them when the text was discovered during investigation.
If trump fired Manafort for being a criminal, then why is going out of his way on TV to say Manafort has been unfay treated after firing him? I NEVER SAID MANAFORT SENTENCING HAS ANYRHING TO DO WITH TRUMP OR CAMPAIGN.
Why talk about PARDONING him(for a crime unrelated to campaign) and cohen, cleaning up Mueller investigation by PARDONING everyone?
You haven't answered that direct questions either.
I don't have time to beat around the bush,my questions are direct.
Trump has been saying a lot of outrageous things for attention, you don't have a problem with that either.
"Trump has been saying a lot of outrageous things for attention, you don't have a problem with that either."
I absolutely do not, as long as he does what he promised to do in his campaign. So far, he's fulfilling campaign promises left and right, with a start to the whole NK thing as the icing on top.
Before you dismiss this link/source as "too biased", here are a few thoughts:
-I have said over & over: look at ALL the resources you can, it's the only way to get to the truth. Because the truth is always in-bteween the lines of everyone's "take" on something
-He did not like Trump. He did not vote for Trump. He wasn't a never-Trumper, but he thought it was a really, really bad idea for Trump to be elected president (altho also that dog catcher would be better than Hillary).
-He is now a Trump supporter. Why? Because Trump is doing what very few politicians do: keep his promises representing the American people.
BC : I really don't know whether you have compreshension problem. Mr trump has been saying throughout the campaign that he will bring in law and order. That's good. But he seems to forget that when he interfered a judge's sentencing of Manafort as he went all out of his way to say that MANAFORT has been unfairly treated and Rudy claims trump will pardon everyone at end of investigations? Do you think they are respecting the law and order of the judge who sent Manafort to jail? Why do they want to butt in an ongoing investigation and judicial case which is ongoing? Isn't that going above the law?
JR: I don't care what outrageous thing trump said as campaign promises. But I care when he asked Obama to show his birth certificate. And all his dumb followers were dumb enough like him NOT to know that Obama will always be american no matter WHERE he was born cos his mother was american. Then Hillary and obama did this and that,all these whining and crying and complaining. You don't mind that too cos you also have been complaining like him too. Why the hell doesn't he resign if he can't get his doj,senators and congressmen to investigate them?It's almost going to be 2 years now and always crying on Twitter like his diaper is wet when he and his party have majority. Well build the wall, I don't mind whether he build the wall, but not on our money! He promised as campaign promise, Mexico will pay for the Wall, so let him beg or kiss their feet or serve as their servant,he should get money from Mexicans like he promised. For NK, I already congratulated him. He keeps campaign promises DOESN'T MEAN HE IS ABOVE THE LAW TO pardon everyone in his campaign who are being investigated by Mueller. He cannot EXONERATE himself nor pardon himself or his aides or his family. Keeping campaign promises doesn't give him authority to strangle investigation or constitution against him or his aides. KEEPING CAMPAIGN PROMISES DOESN'T ENTITLED HIM TO BE ABOVE THE LAW, COURT OR CONSTITUTION TO MISUSE PARDON POWER OR FIRE MUELLER DIRECTLY
AGAIN- you keep debating things that haven't happened. Why don't you wait until Trump ACTUALLY DOES this stuff you are worried about, THEN we can talk... (such as pardoning himself). And I agree he should not be above the law- neither should Hillary be for what she colluded in, nor Obama. Nor the FBI themselves.
But until Trump actually DOES something that you're suggesting, you're just wasting bandwidth. All this talk of his big mouth doesn't mean a thing.
The Yale, You stated; "Do you think they are respecting the law and order of the judge who sent Manafort to jail? Why do they want to butt in an ongoing investigation and judicial case which is ongoing? Isn't that going above the law?" and to that I say no, it's not butting in or going above the law. It's called expressing an opinion, something we all have in common and a right to.
You seem to have a problem with all things Trump. Trump could say water is wet and you would find fault. You criticize him for speaking about Manafort as if it's somehow unlawful. However, you also criticize the president for upholding the law, specifically immigration laws, of which you and I shared comments earlier in this thread. You can't have it both ways without being labeled a hypocrite. And if you're not a liberal as you say, you certainly espouse rhetoric similar to most liberals. Maybe you're just a pseudo-liberal. Either way this thread is about Korea and the recent efforts by the Trump administration to seek peace with the North. The initial meeting between Trump and Kim was a good starting point. There is more work ahead and we, as Americans, should be pulling for successful negotiations that bring peace. Many Koreans, both from the North and South want it to become a reality too. So even if you don't care about success yourself, have some empathy for those Koreans who do.
JR: Then you should also agree that he should just shut up about PARDONING everyone in his campaign and not let his DOG RUDY BARK about PARDONING everyone in the media. Cos that sends a message directly or indirectly to Manafort and Cohen that they maybe pardon if they don't cross paths with Trump. And you also agree that Hillary nor Obama colluded with anyone or did anything illegal as per Trump's own IG, well if you don't agree then you can still write to the spineless republicans in the hill why haven't they start investigating Hillary and obama?
You are NOT the one who decide that Trump can talk big talk and it doesn't MEAN A THING BECAUSE HE IS THE POTUS,every word he farts from his mouth means BIGLY, even threatening to pardon everyone. If he was a homeless beggar, you could have said what you have said,but he is POTUS and he is responsible for his words too cos this country runs on his words, threatening to pardon everyone is screwing the constitution and law of the land by hinting what he might do and affecting those who are already being investigated and facing trials. Don't you think he should just shut up for the good of everyone in his campaign, if he isn't going to act on his words?
“ Do you think it's not obstructing the investigations, how? “
No there are no requests for information denied by Trump or his legal team.
“Answer me Skippy, do you think he has rights to forgive everyone in his team and also EXONERATED himself and pardon himself?”
I think the constitution grants POTUS the absolute right to do so - the jury is still out as it were on pardoning himself but I think he would be a fool to do so as you pointed out this is poor optics - the POTUS would need to be impeached before he could be charged criminally as was discussed and if things went that far pence would pardon him ala Ford and Nixon - I did answer this before btw.
Trumps statement was designed to redirect the news cycle. Very few people think that "self-pardoning" is a thing. I think his statement was meant to get Anti-Trump people's “knickers in a knot.” And clearly it worked - He knows he has nothing to pardon himself for. He has been under surveillance for 3 years.
Meanwhile - back at the ranch - there was supposition that HRC could do the same thing
Do I feel that this SHOULD be the case legally?
Yes. Note that I am not in favor of authoritarianism. Rather, I believe that if we get to a scenario where the President pardons himself, is not immediately impeached, and retains the support of the voting public.
The onus of preventing such an act should be squarely placed in the responsibility of the representatives of the people, and the people must maintain an eternal, vigilant watch on those representatives. The day such vigilance erodes is the day democracy becomes terminal, and nothing can save that. Look to the example of Brazil as support for democracy has eroded to a minority due to the economic suffering of the region.
Those representatives have the absolute right and authority to bring forth articles of impeachment if they feel that Trump is obstructing Justice.
Just a reminder - POTUS is the chief law enforcement officer of the US and therefore cannot obstruct a DOJ investigation as the DOJ derives their power from him. He can ,however, obstruct a Congressional investigation as Congress's power is separate from and equal to him in some ways, inferior in others, and superior in yet others (checks and balances) - but yet there’s no articles of impeachment because this is a “nothing burger”.
It is the will of the electorate that Trump be allowed to continue - simple as that.
I hope that answers your questions
Is he the first pres that hasn't studied Political Science and what you need to know about the Laws(sss) of our land?
and he got on the political map by fabricating and degrading Obama that he wasn't born in the US. and his followers love that he makes fun of almost everyone in his path.
and how did Jared Kushner get a Secret clearance in the first place, and then taken away, and given back after all the omissions and lies on his application? did you hear that he wants to build about 800 townhouses or condos in East Hanover area? It's in the Morris County Daily Record a lot -- the paper didn't say it was to be build by him, until a month later. didn't he screw over a lot of his tenants in buildings that he owns in NJ/close to NY?
Ok - most presidents are not political science majors it has no bearing or relevance to the job
Meanwhile Trump was a Democrat and has been politically active since the 80s - Clinton lost three “blue wall” states — Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin — along with the 2nd Congressional District of Maine because she didn’t bother to campaign hard there and Trump did. Not to mention a lot of Bernie supporters were pissed that the DNC handed her the primary and voted for Trump.
Yeah seriously Hackresident... posting stuff from CNN is about as credible as the National Enquirer...
A citizen of a Democracy would be under the law though contract. A People of a Republican Democracy of a State would be under grace. That's how I see it.
I don't see how the President has the Authority to pardon himself. It's clearly stated in law that the POTD is immune to the courts while in Office with the exception of civil lawsuits brought against him. If the POTD is immune to courts, then in essence he can't pardon the POTD.
And to the best of knowledge anyone Impeached by Congress can't be pardoned.
yeah - constitutional scholars are up in the air about it as well. it's a complex issue.
JR: When is trump getting a Nobel prize for medicine for curing cancer?And where's the party to celebrate it?
P.S: Maybe debating realistically and healthily is not your type when you run out of alternative facts. No worry, I am good at punchlines and memes too if you wanna get there.
the left cant meme..
Democratic Platform for midterms and 2020:
-rooting for the the economy to fail
-high joblessness and unemployment
-higher taxes and lower wages for all
-promote Islamification of the west
-open borders / mass illegal immigration
I think he thinks He has the magic wand of highest power, and he's pushing every single crazy button he can, to see if he can change everything, anything, even the dumbest @$$ things. i can't keep up with the ridiculous crap that comes out of his mouth (or tweets). i'm not the only one thinking this, if you have an open mind and just listen and admit it. If Hillary did and said all these things, she'd be ridiculed, etc.
Democratic platform for 2020: UNDO TRUMP. Then again, we may not have to wait that long :) (Hurry it up, Mueller!)
Is it sad I voted for someone in a primary - a close call personally between them and their opponent - by considering which one would be more likely to vote for impeachment?
Interesting numbers given at the briefing tonight...and by the way they were quite clear about how WELL the children are being treated...now for those numbers...
So far....12,000 kids have been taken in....OF WHICH
10,000 crossed the boarder WITHOUT their parents or were SENT by their parents
2,000 were removed from their parents after they broke the LAW.
so.....10,000 parents CHOSE to be separated from their kids without even breaking the law themselves....probably knowing very well that the USA would take better care of their kids.
So everything else posted by PL and other leading up to this......MYTH!
"Maybe debating realistically and healthily is not your type when you run out of alternative facts. "
ROFLMAO! Pot meet kettle!
The truth is I just don't suffer fools anymore, it's not worth the energy required to do so.
"by considering which one would be more likely to vote for impeachment?" -alpha1beta
Impeachment for what exactly? The left keeps harping on this and it has been said multiple times over by legal experts he has done nothing that warrants impeachment proceedings to be filed. Just because you personally don't like his rhetoric doesn't mean it is grounds for impeachment.
http://www.businessinsider.com/immigration-children-diapers-2018-6. Illegal or not these are children and they're not getting the proper care when they are being separated. Children have everything to take care of children? If you're going to separate the children at least make sure they're properly cared for and use their name instead of a number
A teenage girl should not have to be changing the babies Diaper where are the adults are supposed to be supervising these children? If you're going to take them away from their parents at least make sure they're getting the basic needs met like a baby should not be sitting in a poopy diaper that's child abuse. What happens if this teenage girl was not in the same cage as his toddler would she be sitting in her own poop and urine for days? I'm sorry but this is unacceptable legal or not these are children not freaking animals.
He in higher-archy doesn't seem to care.
he said he likes commotion or something like that.
1. Poor farmers are approached by “people” who say they can get their kids into the US for a better life, but it will cost them $10K
2. Of course, they don’t have the $10K, so they hand over the deeds to their property as payment.
3. Mid-teens are trafficked to the US and put to work as slave labor. They are ostensibly paid $600 per week, but the traffickers keep $550 per week to pay for what they owe for passage.
4. The kids are kept on isolated farms where they work and live a dozen or so to a trailer. They also deposit them in public schools, but they are so dog tired from working that they can’t do anything at school.
5. Kids are told that their parents will be killed, lose their farm, or both if they make any noise about the situation.
"A teenage girl should not have to be changing the babies Diaper where are the adults are supposed to be supervising these children? " - wait it's wrong for a 16 year old to baby sit and care for younger children - oh the humanity...
Skip e-tron for the so-called supervisor of the children of these camps to not provide care for children. That is what's wrong. If you're going to take away children from their parents they should provide accurate care for these children. Illegal are not they are still children. They are human beings. So yes the supervisor should be changing diapers and caring for these babies that are being taken away from their parents. I read one article where they took away an infant while the mother was breastfeeding. I'm sorry uncalled for and Humane and if you think that's okay shame on you and I hope there's no children in your life because that would make you a horrible person. Like I said illegal or not they're still Trill dhryn and they need to be cared for. The supervisors who are supervising the children need to change diapers Feed the Children bottles. Horrible horrible horrible situation for these little guys I think I read where the youngest was 4 months. Are the supervisors beating them every 2 hours are they getting changed every 2 hours? Probably not because they don't care. And that would be child abuse
It's wrong for supervisors not to provide decent care for these children. If that 16 year old did not change the diaper would that diaper have been changed? I highly doubt the supervisors would do it. Do you think a child should sit in a diaper for days on end without being changed?
All of the smoke around him and Russia is grounds for impeachment (Impeachment, not necessarily removal). Impeachment would just guarantee we have to get to those answers and that the general public finds out the answers, not some report that goes to the DOJ. There's also grounds for impeachment on multiple fronts of obstruction of justice. Again, impeachment is just like an indictment, its a charge, not necessarily guilty in a court of law. If he weren't president, he's be awaiting trial by now.
I have no doubt there was attempted "collusion", or you know, the legal charge - treason.
And I know, you wing nuts won't agree, but just wait and see. If you are even slightly patriotic then you should be demanding answers to the Russia investigation, which is not a witch hunt, and has lead to indictments. Anyone against the Mueller investigation is a traiter, plain and simple.
With the trade deals, trade war, and NK, there's some suspicious dealings too. He's certainly the personality type to try to enrich himself at anyone's expense. Trump Tower Pyongyang will be unveiled any day now.
I want answers. I'm 99% sure those answers are that the Russia helped the Trump campaign, with their knowledge, and played the worst segments of the American population to help swing the election in his favor, both to have a president they can blackmail and/or bribe into doing their bidding as well as put an idiot in office whom they can walk all over.
Trump might as well be named Donaldov Trumposco, because he sure thinks like a Russian.
No doubt, huh alpha? Me thinks you’re mistaking suspicion for evidence. But hey, if that’s the kind of justice you want in these great United States then you should feel quite happy and content because we certainly have a lot of that ;-)
here we go - more words from the race-baiting, lying, divisive left..
The children are not only being protected from criminally abusive adults, but the conditions of these homeland security facilities are far superior to any conditions these kids have ever experienced.
Chain linked fences are not cages. They surround most American schools and countless institutions.
Easy way to solve this.
1. Stop using kids as a security blanket to come to this country.
2. freeze trade with mexico until they help stop allowing these people to cross over.
The law is the law and there are plenty of families here separated from their children because they've been murdered by illegal aliens.
Did you see any of the House hearings this morning? All you had to do was see Cummings (who began crying) and Nadler to know what the democrat HQ narrative for this week was. So mind-numbingly obvious, contrived, and repetitive.
But I'm all ears to hear why this is an actual issue and how its Trumps fault.
This administration is doing the same things as the prior administration and the one before that.. it goes back to 2002.
A 2015 ruling by a 9th circuit district court cited the Flores Decree (upon which this statute was based I believe) in finding that kids must be separated from parents who are detained for illegal entry:
here is the actual ruling..
allow me to deal with the inevitable counterargument that this only applies to “unaccompanied” children as stated in the statute - the 2015 9th Circuit ruling held that it must also apply to children who enter illegally with their families. - boom clase closed - not Trump..
You are barking at the dog whistles your media masters are giving you as is evidenced by the House hearing today
let me be clear:
The ISSUE itself isn't necessarily manufactured but it is not new. The outrage and theatrics ARE manufactured, and somehow using the issue as yet another reason n to blame Trump is manufactured.
stop being a witless puppet to the left. The weekly manufacturing of outrage is comical - there IS a time and place to debate policy and enact common sense law, including reforms. To use media to screech at opportune moments when you simply want to distract from real issues is disgusting and not the proper forum.
Talking about diaper not getting changed by the person. In charge. And who knows what really is going on behind those doors. And they're in a cage they're surrounded by Chain fence acting as a gate. I don't care if the child has black white hispanic or any other race they deserve to be treated properly diaper changed babies need to be fed every 2 hours and they're probably not my post is the care of children Nott about anything else. It's about how the children are getting treated. This is inhumane having a 16 year old child changing the infants or toddlers diaper when it should be the person who's supervising the children. This is my case this is what I have a problem with. The 16 year old should not have to do it it should be the adult in charge. Very very sad times
What happens if that older child was not in there. With a diaper of that child been changed? Probably not I don't trust these supervisors trusting good care to these kids. It doesn't matter if you're legal or illegal children are children and should be cared for
Coming to America to seek Asylum is not illegal by the way. I don't know if you knew that or not but anybody coming to America to seek protection it's legal. Also that's just an excuse to separate the kids from the parents. When the kids are crying. Please don't let them take me away you know something is up. That's just an excuse from Trump and his crazy cronies. And no it's not racist like you had stated up above Skip it's called compassionate that you don't take it like that away from a mother who's breastfeeding. That's horrible. Excuses Trump and his crazy cronies excuses tempos nothing but why and his supporters are doing fooled. The treatment of these children is inhumane and I hope people who support that don't have any children in her life cuz I'll be very sad. No child illegal or legal should be treated like this. That's my baby would probably still be in a wet diaper if it wasn't for that 16 year old girl. Where are the supervisors. Why would they not let the Senators into that camp after they said that they would be light in 5 minutes? They're hiding stuff things are being hit that they're not telling the public and it's very scary who knows what's happening to these poor children. And anybody who supports the way these children are being treated or horrible people because of baby deserves to be changed and a timely matter. Trump and stuff even said the only way he'll help the families as if he gets funding for his walk his ridiculous wall. This just shows you what kind of person he is he only does stuff when he get something he's ridiculous. He's an embarrassment. Even other countries people do not like what he's doing and he's making a fool of the United States people but really it's just him and his little followers But You Keep On Believing him and his wise if that's what makes you happy.
Whether you're left, right, or somewhat in between here's what I don't understand.
How do you get upset about people taking a knee during our national anthem but NOT get upset at the very country it is the symbol for being torn apart from the inside with corruption, anti-American policy changes, massive giveaways of our tax coffers to corporations rather than going to the schools, bridges, tunnels, and military that so badly need them.
How do you get upset about the flag being disrespected while not get upset when the very principals the country it symbolizes are being destroyed? This country was built by hard-working immigrants (and well, slaves who were forced immigrants).
If you're conservative patriotic type how do you support our country slowly being given over to our greatest enemies (Russia, North Korea) and our friends/allies being pushed away? We're being sold down the river because some guy on the other side of the world has a tape of some other guy doing bad stuff, among other things. How many lies will it take being exposed for people to see that clearly?
No matter what your views, how do you defend the United States of America keeping children in internment camps in 2018?
We're on the Hitler/Nazi plan. It all started like this back in the thirties, before they got around to the even more evil stuff. Read your history. It's no different.
Those children are getting better care now then they did in their cesspool country
These cages are the same as fences around schools? You get no credibility with arguments like that. Actually I don't see schools with fences around them, but anyway, inside those fences are acres of open ground, places to learn and play and loving adults to care and nurture kids, bathrooms and cafeterias and education materials, sports fields, comfortable furniture, on and on.
Inside these small fence cages are packed humans, no bathrooms, no food. cold hard floors paper-thin space blankets, people with guns (to shoot the occupants, not protect them) hatred and fear.
You can walk right on out of a school. Not an internment camp made for children, from fences.
Bh2 you are a hundred percent right. And also the mothers and fathers would change their children unlike the supervisor who's supposed to be watching the kids period instead a 16 year old child how to be in charge of the baby's care. At ridiculous these poor children are suffering and scary as it sounds who knows what else is going behind closed doors. And to think Skippy and others like him are okay with this just boggles my mind
"These cages are the same as fences around schools? You get no credibility with arguments like that. Actually I don't see schools with fences around them, but anyway, inside those fences are acres of open ground, places to learn and play and loving adults to care and nurture kids, bathrooms and cafeterias and education materials, sports fields, comfortable furniture, on and on."
do they have any of that stuff in there current environment? weren't we just crying that this is a war zone and they have no choice but to cross the desert?
So how many kids were taken from their parents from 2008 to 2018??? You don't actually cross a border when you SEEK ASYLUM.
And now the orange monster is going to leave the United Nations human rights seriously so sad. What the heck is wrong with the so-called president. She's making the United States look like a bully with their allies
were never going to see middle ground on this..
think this is the biggest difference between the left and conservatives...
Liberals see a parent who breaks the law and is then separated from their child, and they blame the law. Conservatives see a parent who breaks the law and is then separated from their child, and they blame the parent.
We are a democracy, and we have laws that must be followed. You don't get to choose which laws you will and will not obey, that isn't how the system works. And, if you choose to break the law, then you will suffer the consequences of that choice.
Accountability. You are responsible for the consequences of your actions. The world does not exist to accommodate you and your bad choices.
Say what you want about their "cesspool country" Philliesman, but it seems clear that these kids are loved by their parents and brought here out of love and their parents wanting a better future for them. They no longer have that love now that they are caged in internment camps in the USA. That's not better care. Go with the false stories that they're actors (like Sandy Hook?), or fake kids with fake family members (sure does seem like they're well trained to wail and cry and call these fake family members Momma and Daddy), or the older ones are MS-13 (which I'm sure if it was true they'd be paraded with their tattoos and all but we're seeing NONE of that so obviously that's BS).
Don't forget, Philliesman, unless you're a Native American, once upon a time your family members and mine were the same uneducated, talked funny, dressed funny, dirty, desperate, and often illegal immigrants coming here for a chance at something better for their children and grandchildren and ultimately that's how you and I got here. Thank God the wonderful country that we used to be gave them a chance.
That was. Notmy question skip if that 16 year old girl was not in that cage with that small baby... Would that baby's diaper been changed are they doing what they're supposed to be doing and making sure those kids are safe?
The thing I don't understand about Trump's new zero-tolerance policy that has caused this, and all the talking points about how we're a nation of laws and the laws must be enforced, is why don't those same principals apply to the daily on-camera breaking of laws by the President, his family, and the administration? How many examples do we need to see of them lying to congress, practicing corruption, lying to the FBI, gratifying themselves at the taxpayer expense, misusing their offices for profit, etc?
I thought we were a nation of laws? Why aren't the media asking this every single time they say we're a nation of laws and the laws must be followed and enforced?
Okay, Skippy, let me put you in a chain link fence and see how you like it.
Around schools? Holy bear poo, you're stupid. First, most schools don't have fencing surrounding it. Second, not fencing that high, third the fencing there is to prevent balls from going into roads and parking lots and not to hold people against their will. I realize going to school might be against your will, but that's only because you steadfastly refuse to educate yourself.
Unlike you, I was actually in school as they were securing them post 9/11 and the biggest things were to keep people out - not in! Most schools use a school ID to open doors, and may have closed some doors off or prevented them from being opened from the outside.
Now, I'm going to agree with the Trumpeters for a rare occasion and agree that kids are separated from parents when parents commit crimes, but there's major differences as to HOW.
1) Kids aren't locked up, at worse they go to foster care system or under the care of relatives but never do they go to jail or are put in cages.
2) Most people arrested, especially since bail reform in NJ, are not keep in jail. They're booked and released with a court date.
3) The majority of these illegals are charged with misdemeanors, for which you may never see the inside of a jail cell in some places.
Also, there's a difference between policy and the law. Separating kids and putting them in CAGES (Here's some definitions for you https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cage) is a POLICY of the TRUMP administration. Jailing illegal before their trial date is a POLICY of the TRUMP administration, unlike that policy of catch and release (under Bush and Obama) that applies to the vast majority of criminals even beyond illegal immigrants.
Skippy: "Accountability. You are responsible for the consequences of your actions. The world does not exist to accommodate you and your bad choices."
I'm going to frame that. You're responsible for voting in Trump and everything that came with it, including the increase in literally nazis, the "tax cuts" increasing the wealth divide, and turning America into a laughing stock of the world, among a very long list.
Speaking of accountability, let's talk about the fact that republicans - the ultimate hypocrites - don't know the meaning of the word accountability.
Let's blame illegals because they took my job. Translation: I'm so worthless that someone who doesn't live here legally and doesn't speak english, can take a job from me, a "superior" American. Also, my boss is such a turd that he's willing to hire illegal workers for below minimum and certainly a fair livable wage, in an effort to increase his profit margin. That said boss is likely not up to all kinda of other crap like avoiding safety regulations as well.
Accountability again: President Tiny Hands: I can do anything
Also President Tiny Hands: BLAME THE DEMOCRATS FOR SEPARATING PARENTS FROM THEIR CHILDREN, I CAN'T DO ANYTHING (Even though my administration created the policy and this has only been happening since I took office)
To take your "Accountability" and shove it
Proud Liberal we get it - we completely get it from your 10 posts today....you don't agree w/ a 16 year old changing diapers
Hackresident: "PTOD" is a typo, sorry. Should have been POTUS. I usually triple check everything, but I'm only human. At least now you know i'm not A.I., I can't even tell a bad joke.
Joe Friday: Congress can impeach for, "for whatever reason whatsoever". Basically, when his conduct deserves it, impeach. At the same time, Congress has to choose to impeach. And, they may not always want to do it even when the conduct deserves it. This is when you vote the current Congress out.
Seeking asylum is different from crossing the border and laying low. Every incident must be investigated. To find out if it's a case of human trafficking or illegal border crossing. I'm not surprised if they just separate first as a safety measure. For some reason those cages remind me of a hard border to prevent further entry into the Country. Not to mention the fact there wasn't a lot of pre-existing structures for this type of detainment in the first place.
It's sad, really. People should arm the Mexican citizens and have them deal with their own revolution against the drug cartels that took over their Country.
Of course, it's impossible to speak for all People. There's bound to be some corrupt types in every level of everything.
Proud liberal: calling a person names; for example,"orange monster" is offensive and childish; and doesn't add weight to your opinion. A lot of the committees at the U.N. are a joke and an offensive to many a people. It's a political mechanism at its worst, and a place where countries work together at its best.
And it degrades to name calling and Nazi references - how cute. Definitely and Indication you have lost the debate..
Well Skip and his friends approve of the way that the children are being treated, which is ridiculous so my question Still Remains unanswered
Speaking of those glorious "peanuts & crumbs" tax cuts, hold onto your hat, they're going to evaporate quickly as you're about to start having to pay a whole lot more for everything.
Not to mention that they were bought with 1.5 trillion in debt that will have to be paid back by...wait for it...tax increases at some point (soon) or the removal of the medicare and social security benefits that Ryan is itching to accomplish and which we paid into our whole lives.
I'm old enough to remember when we put tariffs on the Japanese cars that were coming in. The American automakers said "thank you very much" and quickly took advantage of it by jacking prices up and cutting waaay back on quality.
I'd pay money to see Skippy in a cage. Maybe we can even put a quarter into those feed dispensers and get him to eat out of our hands.
Also: Laws are not absolute and just because something is the law does not make it just, legal, constitutional or moral.
The constitution is not either. It's been amended 27 times including one amendment that repealed another!
States have legalized marijuana to various degrees, but it's still illegal federally.
Laws get repealed and replaced....speaking of which, weren't you idiots just trying to repeat and replace some law for the past 8 years....funny how they're on the side of the law when it's the law they like. Just like "states rights" and laws about slavery.
How about a few others:
The Runaway Slave Act
The national maximum speed law
Many Jim Crow laws (I bet you folks would love to see those back, judging by your opinions on everything else)
Chinese Exclusion Act
Various state and federal laws limited gay marriage, interracial marriage, and sodomy (Thank god, because some of you need to get sodomized!)
Many of the "Blue laws"
How about other "laws" like Executive orders? How about 9066 - the Japanese internment - we even gave these folks money and a formal apologize after we screwed this one up.
(Little known fact, Canada followed our lead and did the same both in jailing and offering compensation)
The law is alive and every changing, both due to the growth of humanity and decent, changes in technology, and sadly as people and corporations find new ways to abuse and exploit others.
How do we know that 16 year old child wasn't that babies mother. I don't understand what the uproar is. Obama did the same thing on his watch, as did Bush and Clinton. When criminals break the law their children are always taken away. To keep them safe from their parents criminal behavior. Remember Janet Reno and Waco. Weren't those children torn away from their parents. Oh that's right Janet Reno had them gunned down along with their parents. Remember this little kid? Where was the uproar then from the left?? Oh that's right it was during Bill Clintons presidency. We have laws in this country that need to be followed. Not only by Americans, but for anyone who comes here.
No the 16 year old child was separated from her parents just like the baby was separated from her parents. The supervisor did not change the diaper so the wonderful 16 year old child took it upon herself to take care for the infant. It doesn't matter if your legal or not legal when it comes to children. Children need to be cared for. Children should not be treated like this this is where I'm going at legal or not legal . The treatment of children needs attention at these children are being uncared-for. And if you think that this treatment is okay just because they're illegal children then I hope you don't have any children in your life because that's just despicable heartbreaking disgusting and unforgivable if you think that way just because they are illegal they still are human children. Yes that's right children innocent children
Here's some dumb laws
so go turn yourselves in soup slurrpers!
How about you cigarette smokers who smoke leaning against public buildings! We chase away people daily from doing this on our building at work because these scum makes our windows and awning dirty. It's illegal within 25 feet of a public building, which encompasses every sidewalk on a main street ever. Should we put them into a black site and torture them?
How about we tag your cars with a license plate on the roof and use satellites to write you a ticket automatically every time you speed. I bet none of you would be upset about us ENFORCING OUR LAWs then.
Y'all just a bunch of law abiding saints right?
I agree if the parent is an actual criminal the kids should be separated - HUMANELY, not in internment camps of chain-link cages.
These people are guilty of misdemeanors, crossing outside of an official border crossing. You are guilty of a misdemeanor everytime you get behind the wheel, assuming that like 99.9% of people you break the speed limit. Should you be arrested and your kids ripped from the car and put in cages?
As far as the misdemeanor, they cross where they do for several reasons. First, the border stations that the right-wing talking points keep urging them to cross at are blocked. There are US agents at the roads and bridges to them actually blocking the way, saying they're all full (when actual on site witnesses say they're anything but). So after trekking all that way what are they going to do? They willingly surrender themselves as the law provides for those seeking asylum. Some just don't know any better. And, in many cases, the areas around those border crossings are extremely dangerous, as bad people lurk there waiting to do bad things to them.
The incidents of separation under Bush, Clinton, Obama were few and far between. This is MASS INCARCERATION OF CHILDREN IN INTERNMENT CAMPS. We should all be ashamed.
You said laws have to be followed. What about the ones about lying to Congress, corruption, abuse of office, profiting from public office, etc?
Again, ask yourself if your dirty, uneducated, funny-talking ancestors were given a chance in this country and how thankful you should be that we do that.
Ask yourself if you want to live in a country that forces you to salute the flag or dear leader. Ask yourself if you want to be forced into a particular ideology or unable to speak out against it, fearing for your life or your children's, or getting locked up.
Because that's where we're heading. This guy doesn't worship at the alter of dictators and despots for nothing. We're on a fast track to facism. Read up on the early days of Hiitler, Mussolini, and countless other beloved right-wing "nationalists."
Because one day, they may come for you, because you're "different" in some way. Perhaps you're a Catholic and not a Protestant. Or some such. It may be you or those you love someday.
BH2 you're insane... Don't bring up a guy in Hitler that killed millions of people in camps and also caused a war that killed tens of millions of people and compare him to Trump.
A1B - let me break this down for you.
If you are knowingly, illegally entering a nation, without grounds of guaranteed protection, nor compiling to the criteria to be considered refugee, being that you are the legal guardian of the child or sworn protector, are you not knowingly putting your child at risk?
That is a form of abuse..
The entire world knows full well the dangers that exist for their child in the event of illegal entry and or the subjected environment that child must endure in the acts leading up to and after illegal entry.
That is known as neglect.
Therefore, it follows suit that children should be separated as the parents KNOW they are, at the very least, putting their child at risk leading up to illegal crossing. In addition medical assessments and treatment must be performed and these children must be protected from other ADULTS who wish to do them harm.
stop virtue signaling and engaging, character assignation and threats/ because you cant logically support your position.
Metsman: Hitler didn't do that overnight. Trump has the full potential to do the same and sure as hell seems to be reading the "How to be a dictator" manual. Or at least the picture book version.
alpha1beta you're insane too... You will never see Trump gather people up into camps, starve them, and then throw them into furnaces.... You won't see him invading neighboring countries trying to take over the world. I can't believe the nonsense I'm reading...
@alpha1beta "Y'all just a bunch of law abiding saints right?"
So your trying to sell your ideas by "justifying" breaking the law?
I L L E G A L....is it really that hard to understand?
But no...lets forget the fact that the parents put their kids in that situation to begin with....there is only so much money and so many people to help...proud liberal...maybe you should go work the boarder and help by changing diapers....maybe that would give you something to do during the day, as you clearly have no job and nothing better to do then post every 5 minutes....again.
Look at the town pool! A fence with barbed wire around it! Oh no the poor people...
A1B et..rejoice, unlike anyone you would have elected, Trump is actually proposing a solution to end the practice of separating children from their 'parents' at the border.
I'm sure you know by this point, but have refused to respond to, that this practice has been going on to a much greater extent for many years prior to the Trump administration. Your unwillingness to support an actual fix to the issue really, really betrays to sensible people how ingenuine your supposed heightened compassion really is.
Trump's solution may not be ideal in your eyes, but it is a comparatively cheap, effective and proven solution that has many other benefits. In a less insane time I'd like to believe that your supposed heightened sense of compassion would lead you to concede to the plan of a legitimately elected president for the sake of the separated children rather than jump from thinly veiled outrage to outrage.
In a weeks time this story will recede out of your consciousness, just like the 'seven days' hate' receded out of your consciousness last week. No ground will support your standing because it melts away beneath you under the lightest amount of scrutiny. Therefore you jump from unstable island to island, desperately searching for some saving grace; some minuscule bit of leverage to supplant the formless, amorphous, capricious value system you ironically call universal morality.
the kids are going to get post-traumatic stress disorder, why make the kid's lives and health sick?
FE: Global Warming - he goes against as a fraud and untrue.
As of today, he's leaving the United Nations' Humans' Rights.
What next? Almost every day there is something else. Does something ridiculous, and he does the next thing to take the diversion off of it (especially if the press ridicules it. (Look up "Wag the Dog").
some doctors that have gone on TV and the press have said on TV that this moron is mentally ill. G-d get him out of this high perch and take away that dictator wand. he makes me want to puke.
How did his wife get into this country? wasn't she working in the US as a model without the proper, legal paperwork?
The school I went to in the late 30s and 40s had a fence around it. We used to climb the fence after school hours and weekends to play in the yard. The cops knew we did that and never did anything because we didn't destroy anything. We played baseball with a tennis ball. We took the widest part of the grounds and put a strike zone on the building with chalk. Then we would look for chalk on the ball to settle disputes. We would hit the coal shute door with a fist and it would open so the smallest guy could go around and open the door. Then play basket ball in the gym.and get a drink. It is called respect. If any of us did anything wrong, our parents would whack us with the strap. And the cop was never wrong. Many were bulled, you learned to deal with it and most times others would step in. Ho!! my, God forbid such actions today.
Metsman - tyranny happens very slowly. Read up on Hitler's path, and the rest of them. The gameplan Trump is following is exactly the same one as the dictators he idolizes. Nobody ever thought Hitler was capable of ANY of that in the early days. Nobody knew he was a narcissistic psychopath then. With Trump, it's evident from the start. He's practically *begging* to be appointed leader for life. That doesn't scare the hell out of you?
For Pete's sake, how clear does he have to be that he wishes he had the same ability and control as they do, to punish those who do not properly worship at his feet, praise him. You're really not seeing that in him? You don't see a man that would do anything, anything to YOU for his own personal gain? He's come very close to getting reporters killed or injured.
Remember. The playbook says first divide the people with hatred and suspicion. Then take out the media. Then take away their weapons. Then get rid of everyone who disagrees or doesn't fit your image of a "citizen".Trump is on baby step two. He'll keep on trucking until people wake up and realize what's going on.
I'd argue that it's happening quickly. We're only a year and a half in and already we have internment camps for children in the United States of America. It's like a bad movie already.
BH2, bingo! Glad to see someone else is aware of the history. People thought Hitler was a joke and that his talk about the Jews were just him ranting on. Even citizens of Germany had no idea what was actually going on, and the majority of the soldiers weren't Nazis.
I think this will play out a bit different. The Russians are on the side with the nazis this time.
Also, the nazis are really stupid this time around.
Do the head-man followers still claim they support what he does, so they don't look bad or a "traitor"? (so to speak, I can think of other words to use, but won't).
I look at these college kids at his rallies on TV, and the people that voted for him with the belief that "he will make America Great Again". I can't help but wonder if they are deaf or haven't dealt with B.S.-ers in their short or long lifes, or are gullible and nieve.
Do you think he's made America better? HOW??? He gave us a little more in our checks, only to be taxed more in other areas, and our fuel has gone up about 30 cents a gallon, thanks to whomever did that. All these tariffs to other countries are going to make the US lose business, not gain. Am I right? Has he saved jobs? I don't see any.
There's one nutsy issue after another. IT DOESN"T END!!! And those poor babies and young children w/o their parents: SHAME ON HIM!!!
now he is praising KJU as BFFs. Why?
BH2 You are following the talking points of the Builderbergs nicely. The One World Order is coming and you will have nothing to say about anything..
Obama is a Nazi too? Why did the leftist media only bring it up now? It's pure propaganda meant to divide people.
Here is something to get behind - Children should not be smuggled into countries like drugs. They're humans.
Bill Clinton Receives Standing O In 1995 State Of The Union For Tough Stance On Illegal Immigration
Obama Calls for Immigration Reform
And Hillary Clinton in 2014 saying that children should be sent back with their illegal parents.
from the HuffPo - one of your authorized sources of liberal propaganda..
Deportation Separated Thousands Of U.S.-Born Children From Parents In 2013
Can't wait to hear your counter-argument.
It's was called the Alien Transfer and Exit program back in 2015
Vox - another left leaning source - "To be clear, there is no official Trump policy stating that every family entering the US without papers has to be separated. What there is is a policy that all adults caught crossing into the US illegally are supposed to be criminally prosecuted — and when that happens to a parent, separation is inevitable."
Admit you have no clue. You haven't actually done any research into this. You're just parroting and cutting-and-pasting talking points.
Skippy, I'll have you know, I don't even have cable, I don't watch live TV. I do watch a little netflix and catch some Colbert monologues on youtube, but those are solely because he's funny as hell (and right).
I do have a subscription to the Washington Post and read it daily. I don't need to copy and past talking points when the DHS Website says all you need to know.
I have spend many nights reading source documents, from the manafort indictments to 200 of the 300+ pages of the congressional interview with fusion GPS (That one was a real snooze). I'll even turn on the live streams for some of the better congressional interviews (Comey and Sessions. Although honestly, I could just listen to Sessions saying "I do not recall" on repeat for 6 straight hours and get the exact same thing out of any testimony he's given).
Plus, when literally every major news source says something and Fox news says the opposite, any human with a functional brain (even half functional) should know what's up.
Did you know the policy was a Jeff Sessions announcement, not Trump?
Here's a video of the moron actually announcing it.
This article lays things out pretty nice including history, something your side likes to ignore.
Mods: Can we dig up Skippy's IP and make sure it's not from Russia? I have a sneaking suspicion the old wives' tale about Russian sleeper agents may be true.
JR: Chill out,bwhy always in argument mode? You started posting meme,I did, then others too...pls show your humor minus the sarcasm... By the way you won, I am kettle and pot,happy?Have fun while it last
Good points Skippy. Reading this thread is disturbing. The level of hate and vitriol coming from alpha1beta and Proud Liberal is incredibly astounding. I am disturbed and concerned why these personal attacks from alpha1beta are allowed to remain up. They are as offensive as they are repugnant. Aphal1beta has clearly violated the published terms of service that this forum operates under.
Why is he allowed to get away with this?
Actually, Trump has a much easier path than Hitler and others did. He's already got a government that's capable of (and using) complete surveillance of its citizens. He's already got a TV network acting as state TV, espousing the propaganda and talking points of his administration, and yes, lying to us every day. Hitler didn't have that yet at this stage in the game. Add in the Sinclair network and its army of allegiance-professing drone anchors.
We're creating another generation of kids who hate America with good reason, due to the treatment of them and their parents. Rather than thankful future citizens who owe us a debt of gratitude and pay into our social security and medicare/medicade system without being able to use it (thank you, immigrants, for helping fund my retirement with your hard work), we're creating a whole new army of future Osama bin Ladens. It might be me, you, our kids, or grandkids that pay the price for our hateful treatment of these individuals that only want to come here for a better life.
They're trying to do this right and legally. They're *trying* to get to the checkpoint stations. We've intentionally understaffed those so that they're overcrowded, or else lie to them about there being no room, knowing full well we are directing them into the arms of the dangerous coyotes who will then show them how to cross the river. Then we say we're trying to save them from the "dangerous journey".
Pure evil. And as we know, evil doesn't go unpunished. Especially when you do evil in the name of God.
And if you say they'll never come for your guns, or else you'll be some kind of militia person like in those cool movies and websites, think again. If you try to combat the armored personnel carriers and military weapons that are prevalent around the country in police forces with your puny Bushmaster AR-15, a drone strike will fix you up quickly.
In Mueller we trust.
BH2, You stated; "The thing I don't understand about Trump's new zero-tolerance policy that has caused this," when in actuality it's not Trump's policy that has cause the situation. It's people illegally crossing the US border. Typical liberal way of twisting the facts to suit your narrative. Fortunately most people can see through your BS.
Look at what your president says
"I'm automatically attracted to beautiful [women]—I just start kissing them. It's like a magnet. Just kiss. I don't even wait. And when you're a star they let you do it. You can do anything ... Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything."
“your puny Bushmaster AR-15”
Wait, I thought AR-15’s were “high powered weapons of war”.
Grayhawk I'm concerned that people like you are getting brainwashed but people like Trump and his cronies. You know what I'm concerned about the children can wet missing I'm concerned about the children who are in cages. That is who I'm concerned about and rightfully so. Trump is a very scary scary man to realize they hate us he's becoming buddy-buddy with a dictator. He's doing business in China that has nothing to do with the United States it's just going to get him richer. That is what I'm concerned about. I'm very concerned because the scary man is going to do terrible things to her country and he already is like putting children in cages and not getting the children properly taken care of. That's what I'm scared of I'm scared of what happened to those 1500 children that are missing and nobody can find them that is what I'm concerned about. And people like you who are brainwashed by Trump's lies that's who I'm concerned about you have your concerns all mixed up I'm not sure how anybody can support a horrible horrible man who wants to grab women's pussys and who treats women garbage and minorities like garbage that's what's concerning. I don't want my daughter to grow up saying this so-called leader saying horrible things about women. Trump is not right he's a horrible horrible person open your eyes and see what he's doing he's a terrible horrible man get your priorities right and people who attacked me where not with it in the guidelines of how you're supposed to act on these forms oh but that's okay because I'm a minority right? So are you staying the only people who agree with you can break the rules and still stay on this board? Because I was attacked with Mema is horrible horrible things were said to me and nobody got off this board because I still see people writing another forms interesting how you didn't say that they should be removed from this board just something to think about but is it because I don't agree with you? And only people who agree with you should be allowed to say those things
Nobody address my concerns about these poor children being treated terribly by supervisors and having other children and their cages having to care for them. Is it because you don't know what to say? Because maybe you think I am right? Because the supervisors are not doing what they should be doing protecting the children legal or not legal children. Are children. And when they're ripped away from their parents arm and they're crying and they're not being consoled not even by the supervisors that is heartbreaking. But obviously you people don't care about the kids
BH2, you stated; "Say what you want about their "cesspool country" Philliesman, but it seems clear that these kids are loved by their parents and brought here out of love and their parents wanting a better future for them." You do realize that the majority of these illegal alien children are sent on their own to cross the border. Where is your compassion for children when their "loving parents" place their child/ children at risk of violence, rape, etc, by sending them off to illegally cross the border with coyotes. That's a form of child abuse. Also, many of the adults are not the children's parents or can't prove that they are. So for you it's proper to have children placed in harms way but it's a crime to have them housed in safe quarters where they get food, shelter and medical aid. Once again any sense of rationality you might possess is being clouded by your liberal bias. Face it, this same policy took place while Obama was president and you liberals had no complaint then. The only reason why you complain about it now is because of your dislike of Trump. You and liberals like you are nothing but a bunch of hypocrites.
alpha1beta, I'll give you credit for one thing, spewing garbage. You stated; "Accountability again: President Tiny Hands: I can do anything
Also President Tiny Hands: BLAME THE DEMOCRATS FOR SEPARATING PARENTS FROM THEIR CHILDREN, I CAN'T DO ANYTHING (Even though my administration created the policy and this has only been happening since I took office)" Got news for you, the policy of detaining illegal alien children who cross the US border was approved and enacted by a democratically controlled congress and has been law since the Bush administration. So get off your phony rhetoric soapbox where the only people who care what you say are your fellow Trump hating liberals.
Seems like there's plenty of vitriol, hate and propaganda coming from a lot of people. You can open any HL political post and see the usual suspects... kind of odd perhaps they should start their own site or visit one of the millions of political ones out there.
Scary to see how utterly insane these people have become. Talk about hate mongers. Wow.
Scarey you accept children be in horrible living conditions. Trump and his followers ...scary .....scary world trump making it.
#9 seems kind of appropriate
We should discuss, not name call. That's when people stop listening.
BC: There's irrefutable evidence that this system has been designed to deny them the legal process of coming to a processing station and *force* them to enter other ways. When they do, they present themselves for asylum and are arrested for a misdemeanor, jailed without the normal release and trial date (no they don't disappear, after all they've now got GPS ankle bracelets attached) and their children are ripped away.
Mark Mc: The AR-15 is puny versus .50 calibre turret or helicopter guns and drone strikes. Whole different situation when it's used against defenseless kids in schools. It *is* a weapon of war, just on the lower scale in a real war. I'm sure you already know that. I'm 4th generation military, Vietnam era Vet and my son the Marine machine gunner 0331 did several tours in Afghanistan.
BC: the kids are typically sent in caravans with other adults, safety in numbers, just like the one we all watched in recent months with embedded reporters. Sure it's dangerous, but even the evil people on the roads on the way here never ripped them away. Only in Amerika now. Their parents send them out of love, for a better life. Read the rest of the posts today, we already covered a lot of your points.
I agree with BH2 and am open to discuss things without personal attacks - who is with me?
Obama jailed innocent immigrant children in large holding cages :
Greyhawk those were older kids who were part of a large number who showed up all at once unaccompanied. They spent a very short time there before being moved to better facilities. Not screaming little kids ripped away from their parents permanently and put in cages.
Corey Lewandowski just said wah wah about a 10 year old with down syndrome being taken from her mom. He did it live on TV. Only a monster would do that. How is anyone ok with that? Can you be ok with it and say you're a patriotic American?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/migrant-children-in-cages-2014-photos-explained-2018-5 and they were working on finding appropriate housing for these people. And they were coming over by themselves they were not being taken away from their parents especially babies when breastfeeding and and an officer taking them right away as they were being fed. Also a 16 year old girl to not have to change a diaper of an infant because the supervisors did not do it. Inhumane treatment. Trump way of doing things is wrong inhumane terrible. Obama was trying to to control the situation of it over growing number of older kids coming over so yep you got debunked
BH2, You stated; "There's irrefutable evidence that this system has been designed to deny them the legal process of coming to a processing station and *force* them to enter other ways." To that I say you're wrong. The proper and available way for these people to ask for asylum is to go to the consulate in their country and request it. If you are fleeing your home country seeking asylum you are to do so in the first country of entry, in which case for South/ Central Americans is Mexico not the United States. But these people are being told they don't need to comply with the law and all they need do is show up and they'll be given asylum. Many who are spewing these lies are democrats who set up shop in South/ Central America and Mexico to assist and encourage illegal border crossing. The United States admits over a million new citizens into our country last year. Immigrants who followed the law and went through proper channels to obtain citizenship or Green Cards. If they could do it legally then so can others.
You further stated; "the kids are typically sent in caravans with other adults, safety in numbers, just like the one we all watched in recent months with embedded reporters. Sure it's dangerous, but even the evil people on the roads on the way here never ripped them away. Only in Amerika now. Their parents send them out of love, for a better life." To that I respond, parents don't send their children off on their own "out of love." They send them on ahead because they believe the children will be granted asylum easier than the parents. And once that happens, the children can request their parents to join them in the United States. That's the tactic and it's been well proven.
And then there is the issue of who pays for all of this. It's United States tax payers that's who. And in case you're unaware, many law abiding American citizens are having trouble making ends meet as it is and don't need/ want additional financial burdens placed on them. Many Americans are homeless and in need of care but are unable to pay for it. However,we as tax payers are forced to pay to support illegal aliens through border security costs and support for families with children once they are here. Bottom line is many tax payers are fed up with paying these costs and that's part of the reason illegal aliens are not welcome.
PL, "Seeking help is legal." Correction, seeking help legally is legal. Over a million people did that successfully and were granted US citizenship and/ or Green Cards last year. They didn't try to jump ahead in line. There is a legal method and it needs to be enforced.
PL, "Scarey you accept children be in horrible living conditions. Trump and his followers ...scary .....scary world trump making it." But I guess it wasn't so scary when Obama did it. Right?
Photos of border detention facilities from the Obama-era, taken during 2014, look nearly identical to the ones taken during the Trump era.
Again read the article that I posted and also what bh2 had said. And Trump is inhuman by having people. Taking children away from their mother while they're breast-feeding. And also supervisors not changing diapers. This is not okay and if you think this is acceptable that is very sad. No child should have to go through this. The article states that they were older children who were here unattended and were not taken from their parents. And no wonder why Trump pulled out of the United Nations human treatment because they did not like what he's doing. So that is why he pulled out because he knows he's doing a horrible horrible thing that is not approved by the world. Seriously so sad I trialed as a child and these are scared. Do you think it's acceptable to put a child away from the breast of a mother you taking food from that child nourishment. And if that child is only used to breastmilk the child's going to have a very difficult time being Fed without the mother if breast milk is what is what they used to. The supervisors aren't even taking care of basic needs of changing a diaper what do you think of this? Do you think you have two acceptable for these children to be treated like this legal or not legal they are children innocent children. They do not deserve this and they're going to have long range psychological issues because of the so-called leader and his cronies. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that a child needs to be with their parents and it coming here to seek help from danger is legal. He is a horrible horrible person to let this happen period in 2018 that should not happen in America
The supervisor of the children are not even consoling a children when they cry. This is not okay especially the young young children who have no idea what's going on and have no idea where their parents are and if they will ever see them again heartbreaking
We have provided links and imperical evidence that this has been going on for nearly 20 years - why are we blaming this admin. Feel free to ignore as your overlords have instructed
Poor treatment of children. Trump ordered. Masses of families...
Also it was stated info about what last President did and why and that was better then horrible trump doing now and lack of services to the children.
Skipped you feel it's okay to take a child from a breast of a mother when they're not even done eating. And that child is breastfed so how is he or she going to be able to feed without the mother? Do you think it's okay that the supervisors are not changing diapers but there have another child change diapers what happens if there was not an older child in the cage with the younger child with a sit in a poopy repeat Iver days on in? Do you think that's okay
Obama administration prosecuted nearly 500,000 illegal immigrants between FY 2010-FY2016. They referred 1/5 of illegals for prosecution, which often resulted in family separations.
I wonder if they separate the boys from girls, over age 11 , in these mass bedrooms. and no pillows either (least of their issues). why doesn't his wife and daughter stand up against this?
The confirmation bias is strong with this one (Proud Liberal)
Bush signed the law, Obama had a similar situation happening- as admitted by a democrat- the MSM just kept it hush-hush so it wouldn't make their golden boy look bad.
You want to change the law? Tell congress. It's not Trump's job. He'll sign it if congress passes it.
Glenn Beck was discussing this yesterday. Not only did he discuss this back in 2014, he WENT DOWN THERE to hand out toys and other things to the children. He tried to bring light to the situation, but no one wanted to listen. Now that Trump's president, and the Russia narrative has failed, they bring this to the forefront as a weapon. Standard politics 101. Gotta' love those "caring" democrats, letting this issue rot in the sun until they could use it to forward their agenda (which at this point, is nothing but for 1 thing: remove Trump. The couldn't care less about the children, or anything else happening in today's America. Of wait- guns. Get rid of Trump and guns.
Let's make something clear. Yup. Obama, Clinton, and Bush separated *some* families. Obama deported more people than anyone. But as far as separating kids, the numbers were minuscule. It happened when the parent had warrants and rightfully should be arrested for those. It was a TINY number of separations and out of necessity. Few and far between. Not mass separations that we see now, taking children away from people who are committing misdemeanor offenses because they are actually being forced to by the games this administration is playing to deny them the ability to do this the right, legal way.
BC - if a kid comes over and the parent later, so what? Again, we need these folks. We're at full employment. They do the horrible, nasty work spoiled Americans won't do. They provably statistically work their asses off, commit incredibly low levels of crime, and again contribute to our social security and medicare coffers without being able to collect. The taxpayer money spent on this, when done right, is *tiny*, especially compared to the 1.5 trillion dollar tax giveaway to corporations, who gave it to their execs and wealthy sharholders rather then create the jobs they promised to (most, like mine, just used it to lay off workers). It's also *tiny* compared to the money being stolen by this corrupt administration, people like Trump and Pruitt, who are looting us daily. How many millions have we spent for golf carts, expensive luxury rooms, security, meals, etc for the huge entourage this President takes to his golf resorts, which then go straight into his profits? That's not disgusting? It's our bleeping money! You can get behind *that* guy, who would screw you out of your life savings for a scam "university" and laugh at you in a heartbeat? That's your hero? Not to mention what he'd do if left alone in a room for a few minutes with your daugher, if she happened to be of a certain age and attractive.
This country was built by immigrants, including the slaves. The United States accepts far fewer immigrants than the majority of countries (shame on us). We're never going back to that vision of 1940's America where everyone is white and toting a lunchpail to their sweet factory job.
I'll remind you that Melania Trump used the family unification act to bring her family here. OH MY GOD, THE HORRORS!
Also remember that the last few years (including under Obama) more non-citizens left than came in. The net immigration was NEGATIVE. So the false talk about "infestation" and immigrants pouring over our borders is just lies. So is the MS-13 scare tactic. They're still looking for one to use as an example. Nada. They are, however in Staten Island and other places. Why not look there instead?
Taking babies and small children (any children) from their parents, who have tried to do things legally and have only committed a misdemeanor, is pure evil and horrific that it's happening in our beautiful country. What a national disgrace. So again, anyone here mad at those evil black people taking a knee during the national anthem and not offended by the shame being brougnt on our country and flag by this?
I don't think anyone *likes* what is going on in this situation. And I think we can all agree there must be a better way to fix it (building the wall/securing the border would fix it, because it would PREVENT it from happening in the first place). But this isn't about "who built the country" or "slavery"... let's try to stick to the actual issue at hand and not obfuscate the issue with emotional diatribe.
It's frustrating because this HAS BEEN HAPPENING. We didn't know it, thanks to the democrat/MSM ignoring it for political reasons (to protect Obama's reputation). But the hypocrisy of "it's all Trump's FAULT!" is falling flat, and frankly borders on deception. It's been happening for years.
OK. So. Let's fix it. Get on the horn to your democrat buddies in congress and tell them to get on board and write a bill that will fix it- and "catch and release" is not acceptable. Congress makes law, president signs into law. This ball is in congress' court now. If the problem is not addressed, the oneness falls not on Trump- it falls on Congress.
Laughable try, frankly, "p%Ssy gate" didn't work, "russia gate" didn't work, "tax gate" didn't work, so here comes "child gate"...
If your side is serious about this, start calling congress. If a solution other than "catch & release" crosses Trump's desk, he'll sign it.
At this point I am completely convinced that Proud Liberal is either illiterate and cannot read any actual FACTS posted on this site, or just plain lives in a alternate reality.
My god....just keep repeating yourself over, and over, and over....despite how many times people have posted factual info PROVING you COMPLETELY WRONG....if you truly are the "liberal mindset" of the future...we are in VERY big trouble.
I cannot believe your consistently incorrect blinded information is being allowed to stay on the forum.
All the pictures I posted are from Obama's policy to stop families crossing illegally. BHO wanted parents to know they faced the consequence of being separated from their children.
Personal accounts from immigration lawyers tell a tale of Obama being equally concerned about unaccompanied minors traveling to the border and wanting to create a deterrent.
Here's another pic from Obama's administration:
If immigrants wants to come here *legally* to find jobs that Americans won’t do, that’s fine.
Allowing them to *illegally* sneak across the border in the dead of night because you want cheap corn on the cob is NOT fine.
The "wall" is not the solution. It's the most ridiculous idea yet. It was just a Game of Thrones style 'prop' to get a lot of people who don't know better fired up on the campaign trail.
Walls don't work. ANY wall, no matter what it's made out of, can be climbed over, tunneled under, or compromised in other ways. It's an insane waste of So much much money that could be used to fix our roads, bridges, tunnels, schools, and so many other desperate actual needs.
You do realize that inexpensive technology is readily available in the form of balloons, drones, etc to neatly lift small numbers of humans over that stupid wall? It's just a prop for Trump to keep his base all excited.
The drugs aren't coming over the border in backpacks. they're coming in ships, planes, and trucks and mostly from China and the Middle East. So are the people. Those being smuggled in via trucks, planes, etc are laughing at the silly wall.
So illegals can afford to fly over the wall in a drone or a balloon but can’t afford to come here legally.
Walls are certainly a deterrent. BH2 you seem to be assuming that Trump is just thinking strictly about a physical wall. Nothing could be further from the reality. Virtual walls enforced by implementing high tech are all part of our presidents plans to secure the border. Dismissing all of that to try and make a point is self-limiting your perspective as to what is actually being proposed,
And yes, physical walls do help, and of course you're correct that no security system is perfect, but the very porous border we have right now can and should be shored up substantially.
It's hard to deny the simple to understand fact that a country without borders is not a country.
Americans should want their president to secure the borders, not sure why this is so much of a challenge for so many to understand and agree with.
"Walls don't work. "
Firstly, I said "wall/border security". We DO need border security. Whether it's a wall, or more/enhanced surveillance/apprehension/etc, we need it. If we didn't need it, these detention centers wouldn't be full of people. A secure border is not an unreasonable goal for a country to have. Bush ignored it, Obama ignored it.
Secondly, the people are sick and tired of the issue being ignored, and that's a very large reason Trump got elected.
You can continue on with your confirmation bias all you want, "walls don't work", "we don't need border security", "America needs to accept everyone from everywhere" etc.... but the American people, by electing someone as non-likely as Donald Trump, sent a message loud and clear that they do not agree with you. You really have to try to understand that- this wasn't a GOP darling, not a governor, or a senator, this was a GUY- a rich guy with an arrogance problem- that even the GOP did not want- that got elected PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. You need to understand that demonstrates how sick & tired the people are of DC establishment/"business as usual."
And, where were you back in 2014 when all this was happening? Lemme guess.... you weren't aware of the problem. Hmm.... I wonder why THAT is....
the photo posted by some filmmaker on Twitter that made this go viral is apparently fake.
Jrepub, skippy, Grey Hawk,
I provided a link to employment stats for undocumented immigrants, it's a bit dated.
It's my theory that many of these immigrants come here to work.
It's my theory that red blooded Americans are hiring them.
It's my theory that if we heavily prosecuted these American businesses the amount of undocumented workers would fall dramatically on their own.
How do you feel about prosecuting these employers (who know exactly what they are doing when they hire illegals) by seizing their businesses, homes, equipment, capital and equity?
Do you feel that someone who hires an illegal/undocumented worker is Anti-American?
Do you feel that someone who hires an illegal/undocumented worker is putting the safety and security of America at risk, and if so, what do you think would be an effective deterrent to such hiring activity?
BTW I am not against added border security, so lets leave that out of this particular discussion.
JeffersonRepub - the insane amount of corruption happening right before our eyes by the Trump administration is not "business as usual" for DC? It's "business as usual" on steroids. It's the swamp he promised to train on steroids. Trump and his minions are robbing us blind. That doesn't upset you? At all?
On border security: I'm all for it if the money is spent wisely, but we have far bigger priorities. Your loved ones take their lives in their hands just driving on our roads, bridges, tunnels every day.
Again, we are experiencing a NET OUTFLOW of illegal, undocumented people for the last several years now: http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2017/apr/26/ron-kind/yes-experiencing-net-outflow-illegal-undocumented-/
Most countries that have walls have them to keep the people IN. If this facist regime ever accomplishes their mission, you may regret that wall very much. Again, step one is turn the people against each other. Step two shut down the media. Step three take away their weapons. Step four build walls so they can't escape. Step five begin the persecution and then incarceration or deportation of anyone that doesn't fit your idea of a citizen. That would be YOU if you're not a very wealthy, straight, Protestant, white male. Almost all of you fail at least two of those criteria. They've already shown how they feel about everyone else, including women and now children.
"Country without borders is no country" Um, how many countries have walls around them and why were they built? Think about that. Every other civilized democratic country does just fine without walls. They take in the desperate people and make them patriotic, tax paying citizens.
"Every other civilized democratic country does just fine without walls. They take in the desperate people and make them patriotic, tax paying citizens." -BH2
How's that working out for Germany at the moment??
Here are more lies you're being told about this by your President.
1. We have to detain them. If we give them a court date, they never come back for the hearing. NOT TRUE. The rate of returns for court appearances has been extremely high historically. Recently the administration has made it harder, but they are attaching GPS monitors so we always know exactly where they are and they know we know so of course they're coming back for the hearing.
2. Infestation. This is cyclic/periodic depending on time of the year, migrant job availability, etc. Net immigration is *down* for several years now. The number of immigrants showing up is down also.
3. They're MS-13 gang members. Oh please. If they find just *one* believe me, they'll be parading that person around like crazy. They're easily identifiable due to tattoos. These are desparate families.
4. They're fake families or actors. If you believe this, you need help. Seriously. I doubt anyone here really does, this is major tin-foil hat Devin Nunes/Jim Jordan stuff.
5. They're not coming to the points of entry and dong this legally. They are, actually but we're creating false shortages of help there or lying to them about there being no room and turning them away.
There's more, that's off the top of my head. The point is, your President (and his propaganda TV network) are lying to you. You're okay with that?
How long before one or more of these poor kids dies due to the lack of proper medical attention and trauma? Yeah, it could have happened on the horrible journey, but if it happens while they are in the care of the United States of Ameria, in cages? What will the blowback be like then?
A country that picks and chooses what laws they are going to obey, is no country for very long.
A country that makes laws that do not make any sense is asking for it's citizens to disobey laws.
I personally don't have any firearms. Don't care to. Not opposed to those who want them.
There is a thread on this forum about magazine size.
There are those who have magazines over the new limit just signed into law.
I wonder how many of those who have these magazines are going to follow the new law and turn them in.
So to those that are going to hide them, claim they were stolen, lost or damaged, you are a criminal just like the illegal that runs over the border, am I correct Old Gent, based on your statement? Can't have it both ways.
"A country that picks and chooses what laws they are going to obey, is no country for very long."
I agree, which is what upsets me about watching this administration break some very serious laws every day, the ones that hold our country together, the ones that were laid down by the founders and spelled out by our constitution and bill of rights.
Do you agree?
It's called "The pursuit" of justice for a reason.
You don't always catch it.
And all of the administrations have broken very serious laws, not just the current one.
Those who write the laws (especially those who take dirty lobbyist cash) have the ability to make those laws that are in the best interest of the few vs the best interest of all.
For example, the USA cannot negotiate drug prices for senior citizens AKA Medicare.
Trump ran on that premise. Still nothing done about it. It was under Bush's watch in 2003 and is still in place. Can't have free trade with lobbyists controlling Congress.
In this case. Trump had nothing to do with this Law. It has been in the books before he became President. It is the way this country has been going for a while. For instance, All of a sudden we have this desire to care for youngsters. Where is the concern for the millions who have been taken from their mother’s wombs for convenience?
dodgeball - Yes, agreed. Those who knowingly employ illegal aliens should be prosecuted to the full extent that the law requires,
BH2 - there is so much wrong in your false assertions that I don't have the time to respond to each and every one of them. I will say that in my opinion your perspective is heavily influenced by a terminal case of TDS.
AB1's posts are so over the top hateful they are not worthy of any response other than public shunning which i recommend all posters think about doing.
It sure seems that most conservatives care more (much more) about the unborn then they do about living, breathing children. If they cared half as much about existing kids who are suffering as they do about abortion we would live in a much better world.
Old Gent, regarding "this law has been on the books", so I'll ask how you'll feel if suddenly the citizens of this country are arrested en mass for violating other "laws that have been on the books" such as the speed limits, fudging on your taxes, not crossing at the crosswalk, and so forth?
Those are more serious laws than the misdemeanor laws we're using to rip these kids away from their mothers and fathers. Not to mention that they're trying to do this lawfully and being pushed away by government officials knowing full well they're sending them into the arms of coyotes who will do it the unlawful way.
You're ok with that mass arrest and incarceration when they come to get you for violating the laws of our roadways? After all, we're a nation of laws, and the laws should be enforced, and a nation of laws is no nation at all.
"the insane amount of corruption happening right before our eyes by the Trump administration is not "business as usual" for DC? It's "business as usual" on steroids. It's the swamp he promised to train on steroids."
...says CNN. ROFL
If you actually believe that, you've got quite a few more years of "paying closer attention" to do before you fully realize what is, and has been, going on.
"I agree, which is what upsets me about watching this administration break some very serious laws every day"
And yet, when they FOLLOW the law as written, you also have a problem with it. See, there's the problem: there's no winning with you people, because you will accept nothing other than impeachment and removal of Trump. That's not going to happen.
The House will be voting on a bill thursday which would solve this problem. Let's see how many democrats get on board (I won't hold my breath.)
I agree as well, but what should be the "full extent of the law?" If the penalty is insufficient, what is the disincentive? To me, it needs to be severe in order to work.
This is why I believe that good cop/bad cop is in play.
Company hires 100 illegals, makes 10 million in profits. Company wins
ICE raids place, arrests illegals(Yay, good job, woohoo) ICE staff paid millions of taxpayer dollars and get to play good cop. Taxpayer loses, Cops win. Illegals lose.
Feds step in, Fine company 500k. Company ahead, Company wins.
Feds play good cop, Taxpayer pays, Taxpayer loses.
Rinse Recycle Repeat, over and over again.
Winners: Company,(profits) Police, Justice System(make money and look like hero's)
Losers: Taxpayers,(fools) Illegals.(just plain losers)
American public: Losers, because they can't even see they are being fleeced by their own Government. But those who despise illegals feel they are getting some sort of justice so I guess they feel they are getting something for their tax dollars...
dodgeball - Yes, agreed. Those who knowingly employ illegal aliens should be prosecuted to the full extent that the law requires,
The best way to change bad laws is to vigorously enforce them.
Using your magazine size analogy, I bet we wouldn’t HAVE magazine size limits if they didn’t make exceptions for law enforcement, TV hosts, etc. Arrest a few grandstanding politicians holding illegal items because they are trying to make a point (thus they have some imaginary immunity) and they’ll think twice about passing laws that only “everyone else” has to follow.
Remember when people were virtue signaling and destroyed their guns by cutting barrels off, etc? Slap them with a felony for having unregistered short barreled rifles (SBR’s) and perhaps they’d begin to see the folly (because the mere act of possessing something with a short barrel didn’t make them any more intent on using it to commit a crime).
The main gist is - if we have a law it should be enforced. No questions or exceptions. Cross the border illegally, you get detained. We don’t care why, what you did is simply illegal.
One problem-they do make exceptions for law enforcement.
They do not arrest politicians, tv hosts, rich individuals- and if they do, the penalty is never the same. Eg: a female teacher hooks up with student, gets 2 years, male teacher does same thing , gets 15 years.
Judges in America have way way way too much latitude on sentencing.
Also penalties (financial) don't affect all the same.
A lawyer making 500/hr getting a 30 dollar parking ticket is less affected than a clerk at the grocery store. Sure it's an equal dollar amount, but one suffers far more than the other.
Jail time for that parking ticket on the other hand- who would be suffering more now, the clerk or the lawyer?
I'll add they are not US citizens. They have no constitutional rights at all. NONE!! Including the children. When a parent endangers the life of their child they better know the law. This law has been on the books since the 90's. It has never been enforced. Now we have a President who is doing his job by enforcing this law and he's the bad guy.
Did BH2 seriously say not crossing at a crosswalk is worse than border jumping? LMAO....
Why bother painting crosswalks?
We should just float across the street on balloons and drones.
JeffersonRepub - so the stuff that swamp monster Pruitt is doing, so much corrupt swampy stuff it's hard to keep track of, is all made up by CNN?
"The main gist is - if we have a law it should be enforced. No questions or exceptions" so you haven't broken the speed limit today, Mark Mc?
auntiel - and which country did your desperate forebears come to this gracious, welcoming-to-immigrants country from? If not for our goodness, many of us would be destitute and living on potato farms in Ireland and elsewhere.
When Mueller is done we'll have a complete, long list of very serious laws broken by this monster President. What kind of fools sit at home in their shacks obeying the rules while someone like him ignores them and fleeces people like us for years and years?
Yeah, I get it, you get your racist agenda acted on from him, but that's just a carrot to lead you into getting fully screwed in the end. Unless you're planning to NOT collect your social security and medicare.
"so you haven't broken the speed limit today, Mark Mc?"
Sure, and if I got caught I would expect a ticket.
Trump promised Mexico to pay for the wall, they said F off to him. Now he is separating family in name of law and prosecuting them(parents) to blackmail politicians from both parties for his wall.
Let me be very clear, let's leave aside the trauma and pain kids and families go through with this separation process and let's look at it's practicality.
Will this building wall and prosecution of migrants deter the and demoralise or stop illegal immigration from entire south America? Answer is nope. Wall , what if they dig 20-30 mile tunnels next to the wall on the other side. You separate families,keep them feed them,house them,provide all necessary things you provide to American inmates and ultimately deport after years of sentences instead of directly deporting them the families immediately. So you spend tax payers money to build prisons and shelters for kids,feed and house them and then after spending lots of money on them for years, deport them. What do they do after deporting? They come back. This cycle will continue
There is only one way to reduce drastically the number of immigrants coming through the Mexican borders every day. Only Mexico can do, America CANNOT. Mexico has to shut close it's southern border permanently to stop illegal immigration into Mexico. Unless Mexico do that, this illegal crossing will never ceases from South abd central America. How America can make an independent country like Mexico shut close it's borders and monitor that they are enforcing that completely with all of it's resources is an impposible task for America. But that's the only way to reduce this numbers drastically.
I'm agreeing with TheYale, BH2, and ProudLiberal:
Can't wait to see the democrats vote YES on the House bill tomorrow that will fix this injustice!!! It's going to be a great day!
Then it can go to the senate, where it will require some democrats to also vote for it- the quicker the better!!! God Bless those democrats, they know how to solve a problem!
Then, Trump signs it. Win Win Win
And we'll have the DEMOCRATS to thank for it!!! Thanks for making the country aware of it (since they forgot to during Obama's tenure), thanks for getting it passed in the house, thanks for getting it passed in the senate. O HAPPY DAY!!!
“Yeah, I get it, you get your racist agenda acted on from him”
There’s a sickness going on here if racism is once again being used as a distraction from the fact that the executive branch of government is doing their job by enforcing the law.
If the law is wrong then why hasn’t the word “Congress” been used more in this thread as it’s the branch of government that is responsible for creating the laws being enforced?
TheYale why is it up to Mexico? They somehow can deter people but we can’t? A wall with motion sensors and other surveillance along with border patrol is what will get the job done. We shouldn’t need Mexico to do anything.
IF the dems sign it JR. If they do, it goes against what they really want. Amnesty for millions of illegals.
A concrete wall alone cost 30 billions, which we were promised Mexico will pay. If you want to put in motion sensors and seismic underground activity detectors and set up control rooms and hire more resources to monitor them for entire coast to coast borders, go for it,but not on American dime and taxpayers money
"Do you feel that someone who hires an illegal/undocumented worker is Anti-American?"
"Feel" has nothing to do with it. They are breaking the law, and should be punished accordingly. And the illegals deported (and their families with them if they came together). Laws mean things. They are SUPPOSED to, anyway.
Don't like the arrangement? Elect a congress who will change the law.
We already pay over $100 billion a year on these people coming here illegally and you're worried about the cost of a wall... give me a break...
"IF the dems sign it JR. If they do, it goes against what they really want. Amnesty for millions of illegals."
LOL obviously I was being a bit sarcastic there- of course the dems won't sign it. BUT if they really cared about the children, they WOULD.
How's that "feel", democrats? Do you REALLY care about the children or don't you? You'll have the opportunity tomorrow to fix this problem- and take credit for it. Will you?
"A concrete wall alone cost 30 billions, which we were promised Mexico will pay. If you want to put in motion sensors and seismic underground activity detectors and set up control rooms and hire more resources to monitor them for entire coast to coast borders, go for it,but not on American dime and taxpayers money"
Oh good. Then you agree an actual wall is the best and most affordable solution. Cool.
This just in: Trump is caving and making a big production out of signing an executive order to stop separating parents and kids, rather than just calling Sessions and saying "stop". He'll call himself the hero. If I set my home on fire with my family in it, then put the fire out, should I expect a statue erected of me in downtown Hackettstown?
Ok, so all you law and order Trump supporters, what do you think? Your boy just caved. Because he knew this was wrong and it was costing him politically. Because it was another poorly thought out stupid idea, like the Muslim ban and so many others. Lord help us get through the next 2.5 years or however long it takes Mueller to make clear exactly what kind of corrupt monster he is.
The only thing Trump has to do is go on National TV and ask for donations from the public. He would get enough money to build 2 walls. The people that don't believe it are the same people who thought he wouldn't get elected.
"Because it was another poorly thought out stupid idea"
...passed by a democrat congress, signed into law by Bush, and ignored by Obama.
Actually, this is GREAT: now the democrats have no more ammo on this issue, and DC can get back to business as usual. INTERESTING how this whole issue (which was going on through Obama's entire tenure as president), only surfaced after Trump's great "victory" of getting North Korea to the table, and starting what appears to be negotiations in good faith... "pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!!!"
Wag that dog.
That's actually a good idea, Auntiel. If he hadn't actually said "Mexico is going to pay for the wall", I think it would totally work.
I'd rather pay for the wall than for abortions, that's for sure.
JR: U are dumb as a brick, I already said if people are not afraid to die to get in,they will scale wall or dig tunnels,Wall or not! Only Mexico can restrict number of human flow through it's borders
"How do you feel about prosecuting these employers (who know exactly what they are doing when they hire illegals) by seizing their businesses, homes, equipment, capital and equity? "
I absolutely think they should and have a proposal.:
Inspecting every employer is way beyond the ability of any of our enforcement agencies to do, and tips are uncommon.
Enter Whistleblower benefits.
Penalties per illegal laborer assessed on employers should be steep enough to make them rethink hiring even one -- perhaps $250,000 per illegal laborer.
Any employee giving information to law enforcement that leads to successful prosecution of an employer for illegal immigrants, provided that employee was the first to give that information, will be awarded 10% of the total penalties that the employer is assessed -- that is, if they have 10 illegal immigrants working for them, the employer is fined $2.5 million, and the whistleblower is awarded $250,000.
And what's more? If the whistle-blowing employee is an illegal immigrant, the whistleblower gets fast-tracked to citizenship if they want it, and immediate green-card status regardless.
"awarded 10% of the total penalties"
Dang... would have loved (if this were the law) to be the one to turn in Asplundh last year... they were hit with a $95M penalty.
The other administrations didn't separate families except in the extremely rare circumstance that someone tried to cross that had warrants and a kid. Sorry.
The poorly thought out stupid idea was the racist team of Sessions, Stephen Miller, Bannon (he's still advising), and Trump thinking this would be anything but a disaster.
You're calling North Korea a win (getting back to the subject of this thread)? Trump got *completely* played by Little Rocket Man.
"Trump got *completely* played by Little Rocket Man."
At least you're back on-topic, lol.
Whew. Who needs SD, HappiestGirl, and Stymie when you've got Proud Liberal, BH2, alpha1beta, and The Yale?
I'm confused. For a week now the President told us that ONLY Congress can stop the massive scale separating parents from their children. It was echoed by Sarah Huckabee Sanders, Kirstjen Nielsen, and other administration members again and again, clearly.
Now he's saying he's going to stop it today. But he said only Congress can stop it. Was he...lying to the American public (again)?
TheYale you're the dumb brick thinking Mexico has more power to stop the flow of illegals than we do.
"So I want to be clear on a couple of other things. The vast majority, vast, vast majority of children who are in the care of H.H.S. right now — 10,000 of the 12,000 — were sent here alone by their parents. That is when they were separated. So somehow we’ve conflated everything. But there is two separate issues. 10,000 of those currently in custody were sent by their parents with strangers to undertake a completely dangerous and deadly travel alone."
STOP CALLING IT "FAMILY SEPARATION." IT'S FACTUALLY NOT FAMILY SEPARATION IF 90 PERCENT OF THESE CHILDREN ARE NOT RELATED TO THE PEOPLE THEY ARE BEING SEPARATED FROM.
CNN in 2014 covering the "Trump created" child-separation border crisis – CNN June 24, 2014 10:00am-11:01am PDT
The poorly thought out stupid idea was the racist team of Sessions, Stephen Miller,
When you are loosing. bring in the magic word. RACIST
BH2, "if a kid comes over and the parent later, so what?"
The point is there are coming here illegally and at US taxpayer expense.
What don't you understand about that simple fact? Is it you're too clouded by your liberal bias to understand it?
"They provably statistically work their asses off, commit incredibly low levels of crime, and again contribute to our social security and medicare coffers without being able to collect."
The crime statistics for illegal aliens are well know and it's high like one third of all incarcerated in federal prisons are illegal aliens. As non-US citizens they are not eligible for a Social Security card, therefore they can't legally pay into Social Security or Medicare unless they are using a stolen or fraudulent SSN.
"This country was built by immigrants, including the slaves." Yes, legal immigrants. Not illegal aliens.
"I'll remind you that Melania Trump used the family unification act to bring her family here. OH MY GOD, THE HORRORS!"
You seem to ignore the fact that Melania came to the US legally as did her family.
Once again you appear to have a comprehension problem with legal versus illegal.
"Taking babies and small children (any children) from their parents, who have tried to do things legally and have only committed a misdemeanor," Right there you contradicted yourself by first stating these people tried to do things legally and then go on to state they committed a misdemeanor. Exactly how did they try to do things legally? Did they apply for asylum at their local consulate? Did they seek asylum in the first free country they entered, which is Mexico? The answer to both is no.
Boy - came to this high traffic topic expecting to read N Korea and amazed to see the segue into Immigration. My 2 cents ... holding employers accountable for hiring illegal workers is the best way to dissuade people from coming and might even encourage the 11 million that are here illegally to leave. That'll free up some $$$ to build the Hudson tunnel instead of a wall.
"Much higher grade than a dumb brick"
Right then. Let me know when you get out of class (and you have something productive to add to the conversation) and we'll chat.
Here's a lesson for you: when you start name-calling the opposition, that means you are out of anything substantive to say. Out of ammo. Let me know when you re-load.
oh and.... psst.... the "racist" card doesn't work anymore. That's what happens when something is overplayed, especially when it's overplayed and false. You should read "The Boy Who Cried Wolf" sometime...
BC - the majority of these folks tried to do it legally by presenting themselves at a processing checkpoint at the border. However, the administration created shortages of people to process them and used the excuse that "we're full" to push them away. It was lies, they had been allocated plenty of capability to process these folks. They knew what they were doing.
For what it's worth, what Obama was doing was evil too. He got called out for it by CNN *and* the Democrats in Congress. They didn't hide like the Republicans are, and CNN called it out, as opposed to Fox, the propaganda network.
If you're worried about taxpayer expense, this new "policy" is far, far more expensive than the way it was being done before.
Oh, for those worried about the rule of law and order, more corruption exposed today, good old wealthy corrupt white Trump administration official Wilbur Ross got snagged doing a little insider trading. Such a wonderful group of people representing us.
Say what you want about Obama, and I didn't agree with him on everything, but at least he made sure he and his administration had integrity, for the most part. Now we have none at all. They're driving us into massive debt while robbing us blind. It's scandal after scandal every day now for over a year and a half.
No matter what party colors you wear, how is anyone on board with that?
JR: Nothing substantive to say, opposition name calling, out of ammo, I give you
Crooked Hillary, Pocahontas, Cryin Chuck Shumer, Liddle Bob Corker to name a few and the list goes on and on ... ....
"Say what you want about Obama, and I didn't agree with him on everything, but at least he made sure he and his administration had integrity, for the most part. Now we have none at all" - BH2
Oh come on, you HAVE to be trolling us all with that statement.
Joe Friday - nobody went to jail from the Obama administration.
Yeah, they tried to "lock her up" with years and years of investigations that never actually found enough to lock her up (I'm not a Hillary fan by any means). But again, nobody was convicted of anything.
Let's see how that turns out for this crew. It's not looking good and we're early in the game.
here you go - you got an EO.
Here's what the executive order would do, according to text circulated by the White House:
It orders Nielsen "to the extent permitted by law and subject to the availability of appropriations" to keep families together during criminal proceedings.
The measure says the administration does not have to keep families together "when there is a concern" that detaining a child with a parent "would pose a risk to the child's welfare."
It directs Attorney General Jeff Sessions to file a request with a federal district court in California to change a legal settlement that curbs the government's ability to keep children in detention.
It orders Sessions to prioritize criminal proceedings for cases involving families.
Trump is correcting the previous administrations failure to act on this issue.
Just because someone doesn’t go to jail doesn’t make them innocent. Come on. Obama’s administration has a lot to answer for.
Suze: every administration has a lot to answer for. Needless wars, you name it.
But what illegal/corrupt acts did the Obama administration do and why weren't they held accountable by the Republicans, who were in control of Congress for most of it? What evidence (non-tin foil hat evidence) was there?
good old wealthy corrupt WHITE Trump administration official Wilbur Ross
There he goes again. Right out of George Soros talking points.
Let's see, IRS scandal, NSA, Fast and Furious to name a few. Remember, not one of these people go to jail or are held accountable for their actions. Happens on both sides of the aisle. At the end of the day, all politicians suck and are only looking out for themselves in my opinion.
BH2, "the majority of these folks tried to do it legally by presenting themselves at a processing checkpoint at the border."
Answer, that's not the legal method for requesting asylum. You make arrangements in your home country. You don't simply show up on the US doorstep and expect asylum. Again, if they're fleeing South/ Central America, their responsibility is to request asylum in Mexico not the US.
"If you're worried about taxpayer expense, this new "policy" is far, far more expensive than the way it was being done before."
Yet another false statement. There is no "new" policy. It's the same policy that has been in effect for the past ten years, although not well enforced then. The costs are based on the number of illegal aliens crossing the US border due to processing and housing whether separated or not.
And although you seem to want to expand beyond this thread by griping about Wilber Ross or anyone else that's off message and I won't be baited into a discussion with you.
Lastly, you stated; he (Obama) had integrity, for the most part. Now we have none at all. They're (republicans) driving us into massive debt while robbing us blind.
You seem to selectively forget that Obama was sued over his Executive Orders three times and in each case the Supreme Court sided against him. That's known as lawlessness. DACA was a lawless EO too. Obama also nearly doubled the national debt, adding close to $10Trillion with his spending programs. Thus far the republicans have added just under $2Trillion. Not much of a comparison.
The Yale, You had a good comment earlier in this thread, suggesting Mexico should do a better job of securing their (southern) border. If they did, it would cut down on the tremendous number of illegal aliens making it to the US southern border. Excellent comment.
- Benghazi Benghazi Benghazi
-Fast and Furious
-Meeting on Tarmac
-Deleted 33,000 Emails
-"Call it a matter" - Lynch
-Comey calling it a matter
-"It was caused by a video"
-Unmasking Anthony Scalia
-Illegal Back Channel Server
-Obama changing rules to leak
-$1M Clinton Check from Qatar
-500K Clinton Check from Russia
-Rigging election against Bernie
-Paying cash for hostages in Iran
-Spying on your political opponents
-Susan Rice unmasking Americans
-Comey losing evidence and devices
-U.N. Ambassador unmasking Americans
-Comey giving all of Hillary's team immunity
-Smashed phones and tablets with hammers
-Taking meetings for donations at State Dept
-Hillary keeping her Classified clearance out of gov
-Colluding with the Media, getting debate questions
-Hillary hiring DWS after being caught rigging election
-Millions in donations to Clinton Foundation from same members
-Comey not calling a special counsel after Lynch met with Clinton
-Comey going on TV and saying there was no intent for Hillary case
-20% of all future Uranium production to Russia company owned by Putin
-Obama and Susan Rice failed to protect America from Russian influence in our election
But surely if there were even a possibility of illegal activity, the Republicans would have investigated the heck out of those things and brought charges. Well, they did and found no evidence of wrongdoing.
How long did they investigate Hillary for, years and years and nada? Mueller is only a year into it and the Republicans are panicking and saying it's taking too long. And he's already got a boatload of guilty pleas and indictments (not the good stuff though, they're saving that for the big reveal and I have a day's worth of popcorn ready for that show).
I do concur with kb2755 about the general nature of these folks holding office, no matter their party. We need term limits and a severe reduction in all the beneifts they've granted themselves so it's not as attractive to narcissistic, greedy, unethical, opportunistic individuals. Set it up so it attracts those that want to be there for the right reasons, not a bunch of lawyers and corporate types who all want to climb the ladder and take money from lobbyists.
It's over. He signed the EO. That's what you wanted. Done. Over. Problem solved.
Next! Any further talk of this issue will be moot. (until it gets challenged in court, as is already being predicted, and EO countermanding an actual law). So at THAT point, it will be... ding ding ding! ... CONGRESS' job to pass new LEGISLATION. That is the only thing that will change this permanently.
So... nothing new to report on NK, and the "family separation" issue has been solved, albeit only temporarily....
I'm so happy. We did it we call the congressman and everybody in office and we got Trump to sign to let the family stay together. We must unite and stay strong and hope these people this just shows that if we gather and rally and things can happen I'm so excited we did it liberals we got president no heart to do something finally good. This is the best thing that ever happened since no heart president took office. This just goes to show that we have to be together and unite and things will get done. Hopefully next impeach
alpha1beta For your information. I turned off Hannity and Rush off years ago, when they bent over backward defending the first Bush. I even wrote to them, telling them so. All so I am retired living in my Man Cave.
I've never heard such sh-t coming out of a Leader. We must be laughed by other countries, and I should cover my ears and eyes due to friggin' shame, but don't because I need to know what he does next. so horrible.
let's see if his ex Cohen spills the beans. let's see what happens if he takes a lie detector test for knowing about theh pay off of the porn star and for sleeping with her.
HOW CAN SOMEONE, ESPECIALLY IN HIS POSITION, JUST LIE, FIB WITH B.S. COMING OUT OF THAT MOUTH ALL THE TIME AND GET AWAY WITH IT so far. HIS EGO WILL DROP AND EVENTUALLY SOME THING WILL OCCUR, OR A SERIES OF LIES AND WRONGDOINGS UNDER OATH OR IN COURT, OR WITNESSESS (PAST FRIENDS, LAWYERS AND COWORKERS) WILL EVENTUALLLY SQUAL ON HIS WRONGDOINGS, THAT WILL LAND HIM IMPEACHED, HEAVILY FINED. SO MUCH CRAP EVERY DAY, SOMETHING NEW ALMOST EVERY DAY THAT IS CRAZY.
Michael Cohen and the Russian Investigation, Stomy Daniels, and all the rest. Cohen resigned his position and attached the DT administration today. Hope he "flips" fully and cooperates with Federal Investigators. Why go to Jail for covering up for him!
alpha1beta, hope you didn't strain your arm while patting yourself on the back for being so conceited.
I agree with JeffersonRepub (what the...?). We've beat this separation thing to death and it looks like except for some ugly loose strings that will hang around for quite some time, it's done with.
I'm gonna back away from this thread now (do I hear applause?). Sorry I overposted these past two days, I was on a break. Now I have to get back to work, my boss is an ahole slave-driver liberal. (I work for myself).
I did really enjoy the discussion, all sides. We're all together on this blue marble hurtling through space-white, black, brown, rainbow. Who knows what's out there waiting for us.
Metsman: Of course, they can if they want to! To what extent depends on how we have treated them over the years and how much money and resources they want to put in to make the flow of human thinner for America.The real journey for America starts in in Mexico. All Central and southern american illegal immigrants don't fly economy class into here,they travel through land via Mexico.so Mexico can restrict number of these foreigners, why not?
Sorry, borrowing my line doesn't make you a smart brick
JR: why are you so offended by a meme about KKK if you have not taken Ambien?
You can't offend me. I would have to give you space in my mind for that to happen. And that will never happen.
And if I want to read about KKK members, I'll look up old democrats like Robert Byrd.
JR. Good, don't waste any space in your mind on us, I'd be afriad you'd have to forget something important, like English, or Russian, or maybe how to breathe.
"oh and.... psst.... the "racist" card doesn't work anymore. That's what happens when something is overplayed, especially when it's overplayed and false. You should read "The Boy Who Cried Wolf" sometime..."
JR: You directed this to me after I posted a meme about KKK and Ambien. What triggered you think it's implied to you or anyone else here? Making fun of KKK is racist!? Never knew it until you mentioned it JR! Why don't you ask Arthur Jones,GOP candidate and a white supremacist from Illinois
So what’s your point, racists aren’t allowed to run for political office?
The issue raised above had to deal with accusatory racism being used far to often without any proof whatsoever. Coincidently, I just learned there’s a word for when folks do that: calumny.
That wasn't me- I didn't provide you with that link, no wonder you don't know what you're talking about.
TheYale Mexico can't even control the drug cartels that kill thousands of people every year and you want them to stop illegals? That's funny...
Welp, looks like Trump botched the fix. Are you sick of the winning yet?
Now it's getting out that they're shipping these kids all over the country on commercial airplanes, buses, trains, etc and it turns out that from being incarcerated in these internment camps that have no showers/bathing facilities there's widespread spreading of lice, bedbugs, chicken pox, measles, and other fun diseases.
All being sent to a town near you (yeah, they're being sent to NJ too) courtesy of your Dear Leader. How many ways can they botch this? You might want to get to the CVS and buy yourself some Nix and a lice comb before they're sold out or jack up the price.
If you're against the administration allowing these dirty immigrants into the country, it has to really upset you that they're facilitating the spread of disease among them and then shipping them around the country to hasten epidemics.
Way to go, really smart thinking by the great dealmaker himself.
What's funny? Trump cannot reduce the number of immigrants from Central and south America WITHOUT the help of Mexico. They can filter out the immigrants there. You trying to deflect the issue on drug cartels is another example of excuses. didn't you remember when trump threatened Mexico to break up immigrants caravans and Mexico did it? Well,it all depends on how we have treated them over the years and whether they want to put in money, resources and manpower to do it for America
Yeah, I bet that being placed into foster homes (or even DHS detention facilities) with air conditioning, food, water, shelter, etc. is such a drag after the 5-star accommodations they surely had crossing the Chihuahuan Desert on foot.
If it's so bad here they should be glad to go back, right?
"Trump cannot reduce the number of immigrants from Central and south America WITHOUT the help of Mexico. They can filter out the immigrants there."
So, it's OK if Mexico does what Trump does, but not for Trump to do what Trump does? Basically, you agree with what's happening in principle, you just want someone else to do the dirty work?
TheYale, so you expect Mexico to shore up their southern border, but people like you could care less about our own. That's ingenious let me tell you...
Stop using illegal aliens as political footballs. You are race-baiters and think you can only win when they divide everyone up, and foment hate and anger.
Trump asked Mexico to stop caravans and illegals on Twitter,if he could have stopped it from here,he wouldn't have asked
So well if you think trump alone can fix it,then good luck
Illegal immigration rises for third straight month despite Trump crackdown http://thehill.com/latino/391079-illegal-immigration-rose-in-may-despite-trump-crackdown-report
I never baited on race,it's a shame that you feel offended by a meme on KKK, I never knew some people here will try to imply KKK means "White" people. I never meant it that way cos i am white. So, I apologise to few white people here who think I baited race and offended them when I posted a meme joke about KKK and took it personally and implicitly implied themselves as KKK meant it's them
Did I use illegals as political football? Never! I have always said deport them directly instead of separating and keeping them and then deporting them later. It's common sense, that illegal crossing need to be controlled on both sides of borders-mexico and US. They shouldn't have let in all the southern and central americans to travel up to the US -Mexican borders. It's just common sense. Not race baiting nor politics.
"Illegal immigration rises for third straight month despite Trump crackdown http://thehill.com/latino/391079-illegal-immigration-rose-in-may-despite-trump-crackdown-report\"
Which is precisely why we need THE WALL, and increased border security. Thanks for making our side's case for us.
It's the only thing we HAVEN'T tried. Perhaps (of course) we should.
heres some more stellar geopolitical fake news - UN poverty report
"The U.N. report’s main contentions read like an attack on the Trump administration by the Democratic Party: America has 40 million poor people, including 18.5 million who live in extreme poverty; U.S. policies regarding the poor are “cruel and inhuman;” the Trump tax cuts aren’t working and will worsen inequality; and the U.S. needs to spend less on defense of our nation and more on social programs."
"the U.N. report’s main contentions are based on the U.S. Census Bureau’s official poverty measure data for 2016 – the last full year of President Obama’s second term."
so somehow Trump is so influential - he is responsible for poverty figures before he took office.
Illegal immigration is the largest driver of poverty for the black communities in america.
JeffersonRepub - we've been trying walls for a long time. They're an outdated, dumb idea. The money could be spent on much better ways to try to control illegal immigration. Have you seen what it would cost, including all the lawsuits since a lot of the land is privately owned?
Oh geez, I forgot. Mexico is paying for it! Wasn't that the promise made to a bunch of crazed, foaming at the mouth chanting wall fans? What happened to that?
perhaps this President will realize that they way to get help from your neighbors and friends is NOT to alienate them by being a rude, obnoxious idiot. Do you think Mexico, Canada, or any of our Eurpean allies are in a helpful mood toward the US these days?
Maybe his boss in Moscow will help pay for the wall. It will keep us comrades from fleeing when he makes his authoritarian move (as soon as Mueller drops da big bomb).
BH2, Obama did the same thing by dispersing illegal alien children throughout the US. The problems at that time, such as the spread of disease and parasites were the same. Wait until the new public school year begins later this year when these illegal alien children will be attending. Likely there will be outbreaks of disease including unusual viruses and parasites resulting from exposure to the illegal alien children. Same thing happened during the Obama administration.
Cal Thomas today."If emotion is to supersede law, then just about any law can be circumvented if the emotional level is high enough." Good by to the republic.
BC - we're talking about a few drops from the faucet under Obama compared to the fire hydrant that Trump has opened. I'll guarantee you that if Obama sent kids around, they were given medical exams first and made sure to be free of parasites. This effort is the usual rushed, bumbled, botched effort by the Trump group (see: Muslim ban).
Trump & co are panicking now because the reporters are demanding access to where the little kids and girls are, so they're rushing to ship them all over the country to hide them, parasites, diseases and all. I'm sure you all appreciate that. they dont care about your kids.
There was no muslim ban BH2. You'd have to include Indonesia, the largest muslim country, if you were banning all Muslims. Get a life... You're just spinning things to fit your narrative...
June 13, 2014-'Taxpayers are paying for relocating 90K children this year who are illegally crossing the border without their parents.' Rep Cuellar (D) "The problem is the Obama administration doesn’t want to give info to Congress. It’s like they don't want the public to know"
I heard that t here are many newborns and young children missing, that they didn't wind up where they were supposed to (like hundreds (300) were supposed to go to NY, and they can only count 90 newborns & babies & young kids (approx.) in NY. what happened to the rest of them?
"Good luck with the wall which will and must be paid by Mexico as Trump promised"
I don't care who pays for it, better to pay for walls than abortions.
"we've been trying walls for a long time. They're an outdated, dumb idea. "
So when are you be moving into your tent?
Metsman - you didn't hear Trump say he wanted to ban ALL Muslims many, many times during his campaign and early Presidency? Your point is correct, it's just not practical, which is why it was so stupid. The courts agreed it was stupid (again, and again, each time they tried.)
My point is that the attempted Muslim ban was another botched effort by Stephen Miller and Trump. They rushed it out and screwed it up, just like this "zero tolerance" border policy. Measure twice, cut once, someone should tell them. But they're not capable.
And thank you, I did "get a life", it's pretty great.
First off the courts were lefties that blocked it. Second, the countries on the list couldn't be vetted. North Korea and Venezuela were on the list too. Only thing stupid is your logic.
JR: "I don't care who pays for it, better to pay for walls than abortions."
Well, to keep campaign promise on wall means Mexico and only Mexico paying for the Wall. How that's done is up to Trump! Either keep the campaign promise or not, America is not paying a dime for the Wall trump shouted many times"folks, believe me, Mexico is paying for the Wall"
Mexico pays or No Wall! Simple as that. Trump can go to Mexico,beg them, kiss their feet,cry and beg them,do whatever he wants,get his 30 billions for the Wall,then only he gets his Wall. That's what he promised many stupid number of times. He can start building the wall by donating his entire wealth while he negotiates with Mexico
The inability to have a discussion without calling people stupid or saying they need to get a life reveals a lot about a person. They're incapable of understanding that people stop listening when they start throwing insults. It displays a lack of emotional control. Is that logical enough?
You’ve posted some pretty outlandish stuff. Starting to think Proud Liberal and you are related.
"Mexico pays or No Wall! Simple as that."
Boy, I'm glad politics is so "simple", the rest of country hasn't figured that out yet. LOL
If *I* don't care who pays for it, I think you will find MANY Trump supporters will not either. As I said, alot of us would rather pay for a wall than abortions. Or many other wasteful programs.
Besides, if things continue going as they are (up; his popularity continues to climb, this "alien child gate" was the only bump in the road so far), he's got 6 more years to get the wall going :)
And to be CLEAR- let's all agree, for sake of argument, and to lessen typing over and over and over again, "wall" means "secured border." Walls in some places, increased security in others, whatever it takes.
oh, and allow me... "oh no no no no no no!!!!! A wall means A WALL!!! And if Mexico doesn't pay for it, NO GO!"
I'm actually surprised the dems launched this "alien child gate" so soon... they waited 8 years (Obama's entire tenure), you would think they could have waited a few more months, so they could spring it right before mid-terms.... the "october surprise"
JR- this child gate is no more than a smoke screen. The dems using these children as shields like ISIS is disgusting. The only difference, thank God these children are not being killed. Cowards, nothing but cowards.
If anyone here is really serious about prosecuting employers for hiring illegal aliens, you don't have to look far. All those farms on the muck hire them every year and knowingly, and have been getting away with it for years. Oh sure, they check if they have a U.S. issued ID card, which are mostly forged. Same for any SS cards they might show, all easily bought in bulk. The employers aren't required to go any further than asking for a card, even though they know they are fraudulent. They've been doing it for many years.
JR: U can cry and brag about trump supporters not caring for who pays for the Wall. Doesn't matter, wall cash is not going to pass in house or senate. So I don't mind people bragging or taunting here about not caring who pays for the Wall as long as money is not passed. ROFL
Of course,but remember there are some republicans in DC who don't support giving 30 BILLIONS for the WALL which was promised to be paid by Mexico by president
TheYale, Obama sent $150 billion to a country that sponsors terror that could build a wall 6 times over and you're worried about $20-30 billion?! We shell out over $100 billion annually to illegal immigration because of these people being here. We have so much other waste in government and yet this is something you don't want done which would cut down a large amount of this nonsense?! The logic of some is mind boggling... I bet everyone living along that border want the wall. They deal with this crap daily. People in Warren County NJ don't have a clue!
"How much MORE is the U.S.A. in debt now"
Your going to worry about this NOW??? The debt is so deep the U.S. barley can pay the interest without going further into debt!!!!!
Trump has added the least amount of debt over other presidents in this same time frame
In perspective in the first month in office Trump DROPPED the debt by $12 billion.....in comparison...Obummer INCREASED the debt by $200 billion in the same time frame.
Plus....the stock market has been higher then it has in 8+ years....and unemployment is at a all time low....should we go on?
If you want to know how good you are doing financially...just look at your 401k.....mine is better then it was in any of the 8 years of obummers run....but no....can't be Trump!!!!
Barking up the financial tree is a loosing battle for you HR
For those interested in the FULL story, and how these detention centers and "kids in cages" was going on back in 2014 (Obama's tenure), here's a boatload of 2014 pics:
Glenn Beck was reporting on this in 2014. His audience raised 3 MILLION DOLLARS to buy toys and such to take down to the children, and Glenn & his crew did just that. But nobody cared then... it's too dirty of a story to tell with a DEMOCRAT as a sitting president. SHAMEFUL.
Now, I'm not saying it's ok (the situation is a difficult one, with no clear, easy answer), however blaming Trump for it is false, and likewise blaming Obama for it is false. The only people to blame here is the media who IGNORED the story in 2014 (to help Obama save political face), and the same media who is pushing the FAKE NEWS that's it's "all Trump's fault" today, to cause him political harm. It's borderline lies.
And that goes for all the people buying the fake news story hook, line, and sinker; based not on facts but only their hatred of Donald Trump and total belief in the liberal media talking points. They are not truth-seekers.
As far as "yeah, but Obama didn't ENFORCE the law" (like that's a good thing)... the 9th circuit created the whole "catch & release" program, which led to some children being placed with human traffickers.
"Are you a family?"
"Yes" (when they were not)
"oh, ok then, you're free to go"
The crazy 9th circuit (the most overturned court in America) endangered children with this policy.
The truth matters. Some of you should seek it. It will set you free.
@JR "The only people to blame here is the media who IGNORED the story in 2014 (to help Obama save political face), and the same media who is pushing the FAKE NEWS that's it's "all Trump's fault" today, to cause him political harm. It's borderline lies. "
Couldn't agree with you more JR....it's no lie this has been going on for years....but suddenly it's a problem and totally Trumps fault!!!!!! Oh the humanity!!!! How dare Trump!!! Unbelievable really that the left is so hypocritically blind!
These media sources are moderately to strongly biased toward conservative causes through story selection and/or political affiliation. They may utilize strong loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using appeal to emotion or stereotypes), publish misleading reports and omit reporting of information that may damage conservative causes. Some sources in this category may be untrustworthy. See all Right Bias sources.
Factual Reporting: MIXED
Notes: The Daily Caller is an American news and opinion website based in Washington, D.C.. It was founded by Tucker Carlson, a libertarian conservative political pundit, and Neil Patel, former adviser to former Vice President Dick Cheney. The Daily Caller produces sensational headlines and has a right wing bias in reporting and has made false claims according to Snopes and Politifact. (7/19/2016) Updated (4/21/2017)
I don't think ironic is a strong enough word for how you perceive all negative media about Trump as being left leaning, liberal biased, fake news while encouraging others to look for other sources. You basically keep telling everyone to only read articles that support your opinion. This whole forum is like the Alex Jones writers room.
I'm not saying The Daily Caller is some bastion of 100% unbiased reporting. But pictures don't lie. And those pictures were corroborated by Glenn Beck, who WAS THERE IN 2014. Pictures are not "opinion." Unless of course you are putting forth the "opinion" that those pictures were taken in 2018 and TDC is LYING. In which case I'd have to say: "prove it." Show me they are lying ABOUT THOSE PICTURES AND WHEN THEY WERE TAKEN, and I'll give you a mea culpa. But I'm not worried.
Like I have been saying- you need to get your info form ALL sources. If you just listen to CNN because snopes says they're "unbiased" LOL, you're missing a HUGE chunk of the truth. You can lead a horse to water... by they just keep burying their head in the sand as to not upset their normalcy bias.
Nice thing to say about someone who raised $3 million for the cause we are discussing.
"If you just listen to CNN because snopes says they're "unbiased" LOL, you're missing a HUGE chunk of the truth" -JR
Irony is that people believe Snopes isn't biased when it has been proven they are just as biased as any media outlet. That's why it is so important to consider ALL sources, as you state, before forming an opinion. International news sources give a different perspective too which sometimes really makes you think.
If you're serious about learning more about the truth...
"I practically begged and pleaded for people to wake up to what was going on. We had to shed light on how our immigration system was being manipulated by people breaking our laws, and they were using kids as pawns to get it done."
"On Saturday, Beck was in McAllen, Texas, bringing with him $2 million worth of food, supplies and toys to churches in the area that are providing relief for undocumented immigrant families being held at detention centers there."
U don't get it. I don't have problem with building the wall but Mexico must pay for it. It's not coming from govt tax payers money. I said trump can start building the wall with his entire wealth and then he could also do public crowd funding drive from all his supporters and all those who want wall along the southern borders and people living there can donate and build the wall. Nobody is stoping that. But what was promised must be respected. Trump has no right to demand american taxpayers money when he made several promises that he will make Mexico pay directly or indirectly
What Obama did was wrong too. No doubt about it. But, it was a tiny, small couple of cases where the adult who brought a kid had warrants. What Trump is doing is mass incarceration of children who came here fleeing horrible conditions and asking for asylum. They try to go to the legal crossing stations but lied to and pushed away.
The Daily Caller is about as legit as the National Enquirer. It's a joke. Yes, JR, pictures DO lie. They're often photoshopped, have incorrect captions, not of what they say they're from, or when, or where.
Question for all of you "we're a nation of laws and we gots to follow the law" folks. It's not evident that in their panicked rush to send these traumatized kids, some of whom have diseases and parasites, all around the country to hide them from us, they're breaking a litany of federal, state, and local laws. Where's the outrage about all of the illegal activity.
Question for all you fiscal conservatives: Have you seen the numbers on what this botched new "policy" is costing? Many, many times what the prior policy was costing. They're blowing money on commercial flights, paying private prisons and juvenile centers for space, etc. That's your tax money flying out the window. Could be spent to fix the roads, bridges, tunnels that people you love risk their lives on every day.
And no, it wasn't catch and release. over 70% showed up for their hearings and with the newer system it was 96% and they're using GPS ankle monitors now.
TheYale you don't get it... I'll gladly chip in to the wall through taxes. What's $30 billion distributed amongst everyone... And Mexico will pay for it simply. Just don't send them aid and get out of bad deals with them....
BH2 you're a broken record... don't talk to us about bad spending when Obama sent the deficit to historic levels... Every administration has done something dumb.
"These media sources are moderately to strongly biased toward conservative causes through story selection and/or political affiliation. They may utilize strong loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using appeal to emotion or stereotypes), publish misleading reports and omit reporting of information that may damage conservative causes. Some sources in this category may be untrustworthy. See all Right Bias sources."
LOL....4 cat is going to show concern about right leaning and word choices?!?!?!
What is your source of choice!?!?!
Hint: we have been saying this about left wing sites for YEARS....
"But, it was a tiny, small couple of cases where the adult who brought a kid had warrants."
Do you know how to read?
"The Daily Caller is about as legit as the National Enquirer. It's a joke. Yes, JR, pictures DO lie. They're often photoshopped, have incorrect captions, not of what they say they're from, or when, or where."
It DOES say the pictures are from 2014.
"Here they are, taken in 2014 during a media tour of Obama-era detention facilities in Brownsville, Texas, and Nogales, Arizona."
Did you even READ the article? Apparently not.
Prove that they're lying (that the pictures are fake, photoshopped, or not from 2014). Glenn Beck's testimony corroborates the story. You SHOW ME that TDC or GB is lying, and I'll buy you dinner. But for you to ASSUME it's automatically a lie IS THE ENTIRE PROBLEM. You obviously have no interest in searching for the whole truth. You have a story/narrative you agree with (because it further justifies your hate for Trump), and you're sticking to it, facts be damned.
So, who's to say CNN hasn't lied, hmm? There are all kinds of examples of CNN, ABC, NBC, ABC lying. Easy to google. Oh but I guess in their case it wasn't lying, they just made a mistake, right? Mmm-hmm.
I'm providing you with alternate sources- meaning, sources OTHER than the ones you have chosen to believe: CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC. Alternate sources with different information, or perhaps more accurately, sources that are reporting the information the MSM is not.
If you're not interested in searching for the truth, then you're not interested in honest debate, or what's best for this country. You remind me very much of a certain former poster who hasn't been around in awhile....
You go ahead and keep your hatred-colored glasses on, and I'll keep searching for the truth. But your attitude shows us you are no longer worth debating with.
You still don't get it.Those who want the wall must not put it down the throat of those who don't want it to pay it through taxes. There are many who believes trump should keep his promised and get the wall money from Mexico like he promised stupid number of times. That was his campaign promised, if his fans doesn't care about the source of money then they can pay it out of pocket, crowdsource and do fund raising but should never put it down the throat of people who believe trump should pay with Mexican money.
Yale I'm against the wall as well but that argument only opens up the opportunity for the other side to say that they didn't want to pay for President Obama's policies. Which is a fair point to be honest. I think the right should be more upset that he did promise we wouldn't pay for it many times but that's a promise they have to be okay with him not keeping.
Spending taxpayers money on policies are different
from campaign promises of a politcal party. There's a difference. He made campaign promise to be built with Mexican money, if he can get that money from Mexico, I don't mind him building the wall. Building wall with our tax money is unacceptable. They can't argue about policies, bush spend millions on finding WMD in Iraq, nobody's saying anything cos that was policies and not campaign promises. Bush never promised in his campaign that he's gonna used Mexican money to invade iraq. Campaign is made by political party, in this one, trump repeated himself many times Mexico will pay directly or indirectly, so let him go and get the money
"You still don't get it.Those who want the wall must not put it down the throat of those who don't want it to pay it through taxes." this is the first Tax I have ever heard of a liberal being against..
If you don't want a wall and added security then you'll just see years from now how this country will collapse as a power economically... Again... There's so much other waste in government and you're worried about a damn wall... There's something seriously wrong with people like that...
Personally, I don't feel wall is going to reduce illegal crossing. They are already scaling steel metal wall with bare hands and those tall concrete walls with tall ladders. And they are digging tunnels from Mexican town to american town on the border. So, like I said earlier, I feel that efforts to stop illegal crossing has to be put in 100% on Mexican side as well. But I don't mind if trump builds wall with Mexican money to keep his campaign promise.
I mean I'm not sure there will be much to see considering the general consensus is that immigration is a benefit to the economy.
"Those who want the wall must not put it down the throat of those who don't want it to pay it through taxes."
Oh good. Then you feel the same way about taxpayer money going to fund abortions? Fantastic. The Hyde Amendment went a long way towards that goal, but the democrat party wanted to repeal it as recently as 2016.
Reasonable yeah legal immigration helps not people coming here illegally and not contributing to the pot...
The Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) argues that the answer is clear: illegal aliens cost U.S. taxpayers more than $100 billion each year.
I think we have bigger problems and bigger criminals to worry about. Wall Street for one. The Trump administration for another.
Republican (Let's be real here, the people are the top typically vote republican in hopes of lowering their taxes) business owners who hire illegal immigrants knowingly and in mass, to avoid paying people well and their fair share in taxes. We're not talking about picking up an illegal per-diem to work on your house, we're talking about the systematic hiring of illegals, mostly in southern/red states to keep costs down and profits up.
Trump is the one ruining this country as a world power, by pissing off every civilized country and pulling us out of international agreements.
The other big one is the companies who outsource labor, who are literally putting money and power into the hands of another country. Don't agree? Well, just think what would happen to the US if China suddenly matched out minimum wage (minimum wage there is roughly $2-$3 an hour US)
Long Story short: we'd still buy stuff from them, but costs for more than triple on the vast majority of goods, especially elecontrics.
If we increased wages of lower income workers, we'd put more money into their hands - money that would be spent, not saved, which would means the average citizen has more buying power, and could afford to buy American products made by highly skilled Americans. Business owners could afford to raise prices a little bit, and hire higher paid workers, reduce the need for illegal immigrants and the opportunity they have.
And yes, some lower paid workers would lose their jobs if minimum wage rose, but I for one thing that's a good thing. I rarely ever go to the Hackettstown McDonalds, but the people working there have literally never gotten an order right. The customer service would be improved by dealing with robots, and assuming those people could find almost any other job, it would probably be an improvement for them too, vs flipping burgers. So yes, raise minimum wage to $15 an hour, come down heavy on businesses hiring illegals, and I think everyone would be better off - but it might be a rough transition period (Costs of building factories, hiring and training workers etc) and we'd have to stick to the plan and get through it.
Companies who benefit from the government (at minimum personal liability protection for ownership) have an ethical duty not to hurt the country who protects them and business owners have an ethical duty to pay taxes and obey laws.
Think about what $1 an hour (net) increase would do for you - an extra $2000 a year. What would you do with it?
Did you feel the same way about taxpayer money going to fund WMD in Iraq? Funding abortion is policies like the number of times GOP took us to many middle East war! I never went to policies because if we try to compare policy by policy,this argument will never end. Trump's own party congressmen and senators are voting against his wall because they want him to get money from Mexico for his campaign promise
So then it seems like the logical conclusion would be, how can we make it easier for immigrants to come here?
I like how JeffersonRepub keeps trying to nonchalantly switch the conversation to abortions lol
A liberal quoting the GEORGE BUSH Institute?!?!?!
hahahahahahahaha Now I've seen everything. I thought the dogma was "it's Bush's FAULT!" ROFL
I have to quote Obama now...
"With respect to the notion that I can just suspend deportations through executive order, that's just not the case." -March 2011
The problem is, is that I am President of the United States. I'm not the emperor of the Unites States. My job is to execute laws that are passed." (which is what Trump has been doing) -February 2013
"...essentially I would be ignoring the law in a way that I think would be very difficult to defend legally. So that's not an option." -Sept 2013
"The easy way out is to try to yell and try to pretend I can do something by violating our laws." -Nov 2013
"I would be derelict in my duties if I did not try to improve the system that everybody acknowledges is broken." (this is what trump has been trying to do with legislation) -November 2014
As you can see, even Obama knew he couldn't "executive order his way" out of this. Nor can Trump. His EO will be challenged, as it countermands written law. The LAW must be changed. That's Congress' job. But they seem unwilling to do it, they would rather play political football with the issue. BOTH sides.
"So then it seems like the logical conclusion would be, how can we make it easier for immigrants to come here?"
Actually, the logical QUESTION would be, "how can we secure our borders so that we can enforce our laws, and have only LEGAL immigrants?" We don't want ILLEGAL immigrants, we want LEGAL ones. And blanket amnesty 24-7-365 (open borders) is NOT the answer. That won't fly at all. We MUST control our border.
That's a big misconception (oh what the hell, I'll use BH2's term for it: LIE) that your side continues to hold, because for some reason you WANT to believe it: that all Trump supporters want a wall to stop ALL immigration, we don't want anyone coming here, because we are racists, or at least not very nice people. THAT is where you go wrong. We have no problem with LEGAL immigration. We have no problem with people coming here LEGALLY for the opportunities the US (and no one else) can provide. But you have to follow our laws. You must do it legally.
I really don't understand the issue your side has with law. It's like you feel you can just ignore the law whenever it suits you. That's not what "law" means.
You like legal immigration and hate illegal immigration? So your solution is to make it harder to immigrate legally, to push people to break the laws and immigrate illegally?
Immigrants have a lower crime rate than native born Americans so maybe they will have a good influence on us.
"The people are the top typically vote republican in hopes of lowering their taxes) business owners who hire illegal immigrants knowingly and in mass, to avoid paying people well and their fair share in taxes" - the basis of this is what exactly?
by income the parties are pretty equal.
"raise minimum wage to $15 an hour" - well another socialist bastion Seattle did this. lets see how that went.
minimum wages in Seattle increased from $11 in 2015 to $13 in 2016 and $15 in 2017 for large employers.
the study found that higher minimum wages caused a 9.4% reduction to total hours worked by low-skilled workers, or roughly 14 million hours per year. Given that a full-time employee works 2,080 hours per year, that's equivalent to just over 6,700 full-time equivalents who have lost their jobs, just in the city of Seattle. Oh and the pay hikes weren't nearly enough to offset lost hours...
"Importantly, the lost income associated with the hours reductions exceeds the gain associated with the net wage increase of 3.1%. Using data in Table 3, we compute that the average low-wage employee was paid $1,897 per month. The reduction in hours would cost the average employee $179 per month, while the wage increase would recoup only $54 of this loss, leaving a net loss of $125 per month (6.6%), which is sizable for a low-wage worker."
You like legal immigration and hate illegal immigration? So your solution is to make it harder to immigrate legally, to push people to break the laws and immigrate illegally?
There's another one of your problems:
"secure border = making it harder to immigrate legally". It's a "false equivalency" as my nemesis used to say. That would be like saying locking my doors at night make it harder for people to come into my house uninvited.
And our laws & border security doesn't "push" anyone to break our laws. Another false equivalency. That's like saying "well officer... if there wasn't a speed limit, I wouldn't be forced to break it." Nonsense.
JR: Ur arguments falls flat,like I said with majority in house and Senate,trump can't pass his Wall money . So SAD! I am waiting till mid term is over like you to told me to wait.....
Metsman you can refer to the same link I sent you before from the Bush Center.
guess we can add time to the fake news list.. great job.
child was not "torn" from anyone's arms, she was set down so the mother could be patted down.
child and mother were not even separated.
mother willfully SEPARATED HERSELF from her other kids left behind. and this one from her father who was opposed to the move - but he has no rights in this construct..
mother had $6,000 in savings, employed husband, children, but wanted better economic opportunities, so she paid to get to the border, cross a river illegally and sneak in and lied in her claim of "asylum"
Now we get to pay to house her and her child for a year for her due process hearings - unreal.
I mean are you just gonna refute all facts because you hate the minorities at the pool?
Ok so it's ok to let MS-13 stroll on in here and kill people... Thanks for clarifying that. I guess the dead bodies piling up don't matter since you want Mexico to write a check for the wall...
You are not going to "deport" MS-13. First of all, it originated HERE. That would be like deporting Asian tiger mosquitoes. Both are here to stay...
"Mara Salvatrucha (MS), also known as MS-13 (the 13 representing their Sureño affiliation), is an international criminal gang that originated in Los Angeles, California, in the 1980s"
"Immigrants have a lower crime rate than native born Americans so maybe they will have a good influence on us" true fact nobody has an issue with immigrants.
100 % of illegal immigrants are criminals.
For the first improper entry offense, the person can be fined (as a criminal or civil penalty), or imprisoned for up to six months, or both. This is considered a misdemeanor under federal law (18 U.S.C.A. § 3559).
For a subsequent offense, or a reentry (or attempted reentry) after exclusion or deportation, the person can be fined or imprisoned for up to two years, or both. (See 8 U.S.C. Section 1325, 1326, I.N.A. Section 275, 276.) This is considered a felony under federal law (18 U.S.C.A. § 3559).
You are not taking into account their population size - they have an extreme amount of crime for their portion of the population. In 2011, the Government Accountability Office delivered a report on criminal activity by unauthorized immigrants.
They located the arrest and sentencing records of roughly half the immigrants in local jails and state and federal prisons, and then sampled them to estimate what they contained. :
An estimated 25,000 of these undocumented immigrants serving sentences for homicide
A cumulative total of 2.89 million offenses committed by these undocumented immigrants between 2003 and 2009
Among those offenses: An estimated 42,000 robberies, 70,000 sex crimes, 81,000 auto thefts, 95,000 weapons offenses, and 213,000 assaults
Much like the population - the crime is disproportionately concentrated in border states
the below Texas Department of Public Safety report estimates that the illegal immigrants in Texas prisons had committed a total of 2,993 homicides in a state that typically suffers between 1100 and 1400 homicides per year.
"foreign aliens committed 611,234 unique crimes in Texas from 2008 to 2014, including thousands of homicides and sexual assaults."
"From October 2008 to April 2014, Texas identified a total 177,588 unique criminal alien defendants booked into Texas county jails. These individuals have been identified through the Secure Communities initiative, in which Texas has participated since October 2008."
so are they giving rape and murder lessons down there or what?
hey Dodgebaal- Mara Salvatrucha means “Salvadoran gang" here is the FBI report on it.
"(U) According to Los Angeles Police Department gang investigators, El Salvadoran
nationals traveled to the United States from war-torn El Salvador in the 1970s and 1980s and settled in the Rampart area of Los Angeles, California, where they integrated with other Hispanic immigrants. These El Salvadoran immigrants established the gang Mara Salvatrucha (MS) in the early 1980s in response to continual persecution by other Hispanic gangs (specifically the 18th Street Gang). "
once again - you are incorrect.
“You still don't get it.Those who want the wall must not put it down the throat of those who don't want it to pay it through taxes.”
Someone better tell progressive dems. Nearly everything they want ignores this basic concept...
Far more people were killed in this country by white supremacists than MS-13 or illegal aliens, including at least one on live TV last year. Anyone doing anything about that?
I laughed so hard I spit out my drink about the ridiculous comment about somehow these refugees from horror ruining our standing in the world economy--while our President does stuff every day to do exactly that with the idiotic tariffs, alienating our trading partners (and the rest of the world), and giving away $1.5 trillion to corporations that we'll have to finance with more loans from China and upcoming tax hikes on all of us.
100 % of illegal immigrants are criminals.
100% of those who employ illegal immigrants are criminals.
100% of those Americans who employ illegal immigrants are traitors...
The natives have been infected with the MS-13 virus. It is now replicating here even with white American born females.
Your point is moot. Unless you deport American citizens that are infected as well....
BH2 you live in a bubble, so because citizens are killing people it's ok not to do anything about MS-13? With logic like that it's no wonder the Dems are tone deaf...
77 between 1995 and 2015 - that’s comparable. Got any more of that fake news ?
My point was that it was started by foreign nationals to go to war with other foreign nationals. It was not started by US persons as you alleged.
Trumps parade today said Illegal Immigrants killed, 5,300 Americans since 9-11. Just saying.
“Far more people were killed in this country by white supremacists than MS-13 or illegal aliens, including at least one on live TV last year. Anyone doing anything about that?”
From here, there were supposedly only 9 murders recorded in 2016 in the hate group category (no indication of group affiliation so maybe dig into the links:
“Crimes against persons (Based on Table 2.)
Law enforcement reported 4,720 hate crime offenses as crimes against persons. By offense type:
44.7 percent were intimidation.
35.7 percent were simple assault.
18.5 percent were aggravated assault.
0.7 percent consisted of 9 murders and 24 rapes (all 24 rapes were submitted under the UCR Program’s revised definition of rape).
(See Methodology for more details about changes in the definition of rape in the UCR Program.)
0.4 percent involved the offense category other, which is collected only in NIBRS.”
Why doesn't he just stop the chaos already? stop pushing so many limits in so many categories to see what happens, and there has been so many protests in so many categories.. Too much bad is being made into crazy issues (like babies and children separated from parents), it doesn't stop with new (negative) issues. no other one in his position --- without knowledge of US and worldwide and political issues --- ever acted so wrecklessly and crazily.
there is no way he could get voted in again. so many bad issues he's created and he's out there in political rallies in these time of crazy crises trying to get his ego up for another 4 years' win, and this 4-year term isn't even done yet. it's nutz.
Now I see why my friends don't watch TV or read the news any more. If it's not one bad new decision, isn't another bad new decision. and so many flip-flops that you don't know if his head or @$$ is up.
The ignorance of the LLDC on this thread is beyond crazy. They are committing National suicide and don't even know it, yet they vote and breed.
@PL "White people kill .....all school shootings white males"
Wow....Proud liberal...you truly are racist
Secondly...you should fact check yourself on that one!
Here is an idea....any one caught ILLEGALLY crossing the boarder gets death penalty......done deal
Does PL *really* want to get into what race kills the most people?
OK... what say you FBI?
Short version (in case you don't bother reading the link): Black/African American, despite being 13% of the total US population, commit 52.2% of murder and non-negligent manslaughter. In fact, as a race they are *over* represented by at least 200% in ALL categories of crime except DUI and drunkenness. At least they can hold their liquor.
Look it up see for your self. Not saying only whites do but that case so far... Just like you say immigrants are criminals... You kinda hypocritic
"there is no way he could get voted in again."
I wouldn't place any bets on that if I were you. Let's not forget:
"he can't win the primary"
"he'll never win the general"
"he'll be impeached soon"
As long as the Dems, Hollywood Elites, Media bias, and the small minded keep running their mouths. He's a shoe in. They are sinking their own ship and don't even know it. It happened once right under their noses because of their arrogance and it will happen again.
I am married white man test to see how many of you hypocrites. You bash immigrants who seek to be safe. You would do the same. You are racists. If you were in there shoes you would do the same.
You left off part of there names off. "Illegal" That changes the the meaning, Proud liberal
Fk it, proud you have said you are an immigrant before. You have made many many posts. I don't agree with what your doing. You just pull a new trigger word and go on and on. Then you spout some sort of name calling. That won't help.i know it's a lot
But post links.
The invasion of Europe from Central Africa and Middle East...is an agenda.
The invasion of the US from Central and South America...is an agenda.
Any free trade agreement from the first world to the third world...is an agenda.
Erase borders - erase the middle class unions of the west to compete with third world workers making nothing w/no benefits ...is an agenda. Who signed NAFTA - Billl Clinton - oops liberals...
A drive to a 1 world government UN - a 1 world order by the Elites UN ...read your bible peeps it's all in there. Trump may have set them back a few years but the Elites want you chipped and dipped by the UN!
I was responding to old gent comment where he said immigrants kill....all races have killed saddly and cause crime....good and bad people in every race. Just like charts showed.... Not just immigrants.... immigrants come here to seek someplace safe. So the people are passing immigrants and that's okay but if somebody says that another race also commits crime its racist? That's a hypocrite like I said before there is good and bad people and every race and in every culture. It's legal to come here to seek protection I can't believe some of the horrible things that I have seen and stories that I've heard about what the immigrants are going through. Trump signs a statement saying the families can now stay together the problem is it's going to be very hard to locate the kids and the parents because there was no formal paperwork that has been done and people are profiting off of immigrants staying at these places I think it was like 770 a night per person to stay at these places. If they just kept the families together it would have been a lot cheaper. These people are fleeing horrible living conditions. People Are People and they need our help. After all your family was an immigrant 2 unless you're Native American. Just think about what these poor people are going through. The government needs to do more to help that's poor people and anybody that needs help this will be my last post just remember this God said help those who are hungry help those who are thirsty and help those who naked. And d a r r i n e or the mortgage rates as you said some pretty horrible things about immigrants. So I will not even talk period death penalty really wow that's terrible people are seeking protection that's really terrible of you period going back to Christianity That means to help all people and Trump says he's a Christian but he's not living by the Christian morals God bless and have a blessed night
"White people kill .....all school shootings white males" Proud Liberal
You do realize that the 911 massacre was from non-whites. The massacre in France from non-whites. I can go on and on, but it's too much to post.
I usually stay away from these type of threads, however your hypocrisy is so evident, I just couldn't keep quite.
You have added to our ongoing problem of division.
Does your white husband know about or read this thread?
Mass killers have been white,brown and black from ancient times till today.. It's sickness and mental breakdown of the head,nothing related to skin tone. We should stop prejudging and stereotyping people based on skin color as black,brown or white
Positive I was responding to how this thread is only blaming immigrants 4 problems. Like I said before there is evil people in both races. I'm tired of seeing this thread being blamed on immigrants. Not all immigrants are bad watch this post is reading. I think it's a heartbreaking and ridiculous how people think that all immigrants are terrible but they're not. I'm done with this thread. People Apache immigrants and I think it's horrible and when me posting an article about white current crimes people things is terrible but guess what white people commit crimes to not just immigrants. Both races have evil people in it and that is what I'm trying to get it. Like the example of a horrible horrible school shootings this is the point I'm trying to make not just immigrants commit crimes they're all racist have some evil people. And Trump they can office people think it's okay to express hatred and racism because he is. He makes fun of the disabled and he has called some minorities some horrible names this is not okay this is dividing the country. I simply was making an argument out all Races have bad people in it don't make this harder to see then you are.
There were no words to describe what happened on 911. It was truly awful and horrible and some people after it happened blamed Muslims for being bad. The people who did that horrible thing were horrible people but not all people in that race are bad this is the point I'm trying to make. And for a long time and till this day these people are getting harassed and treated terribly because people think that they're all bad in this race, and that is not the case. Yes the people who did 9/11 were bad however there are good people in that race do you understand what I'm saying?
Since Trump took office, and he acts were really towards other people or not white other people are thinking that's okay. Yes racism also took place before Trump but now it's more out there like the white supremacist and their tiki torches remember that. People saying that they could be mean to minorities because Trump is president stuff like that which is terrible when people bash immigrants on this thread it's okay and people don't stand up for them but as soon as white people are mentioned in the in a bad way then it's bad. Which should not be the case for either or any races because there's bad people in every race. This is the point I'm trying to make. As well.
Also what's up with Mrs trump coat and why do you need one in Texas?? I hope one day all races treated the same because they are not. White privilege look it up. I am no longer reading or responding on this. Good day and god bless America
Willful ignorance is a sad, and dangerous thing. And with revisionist history (or at least incomplete history) being taught in our schools, ignorance has become an indoctrination.
ru knows what he's talking about. This plan has been in motion a very long time. It's the "how to boil a frog" method. Thank God many Americans have woken up- and are hopefully waking their children up. Truth is what is needed. Not political parties.
We need more Ron/Rand Pauls, more Charles Krauthammers. We need more Washingtons and Jeffersons and Lincolns. More Marquis de Lafayettes.
"I am no longer reading or responding on this. "
Are you sure this time?
"Good day and god bless America"
That's God - capital G (if you're a true believer). And amen.
“You left off part of there names off. "Illegal" That changes the the meaning, Proud libera
Amazing the context that one little word can provide.
Also, best post of the day:
“As long as the Dems, Hollywood Elites, Media bias, and the small minded keep running their mouths. He's a shoe in. They are sinking their own ship and don't even know it. It happened once right under their noses because of their arrogance and it will happen again.”
auntiel, I’m not sure he’s a “shoe in” but in general a agree with the point of your post.
Folks really need to step back and realize how they are behaving: almost as bad as they think trump is behaving. Arrogance needs push back, no matter from which “side” it stems: Idiot (yes, idiots!) actors, politicians, tv talking heads, opinion writers, FBI agents whose job requires impartiality, emotionally off-the-rails internet trolls- you get the point. They are creating, through their own hatred, the exact conditions needed to re-elect Trump. Personally I’d consider voting for him just as an FU to all those blowhards mentioned above.
Bottom line: just because Trump’s personality is childish doesn’t give the rest of you permission to behave the same. Act like adults and trump will be out, of that I’m sure, but continue to act like children, like Trump himself, well then all bets are off. He could very well have another term.
"Personally I’d consider voting for him just as an FU to all those blowhards mentioned above."
And I've said all along, that is a BIG part of why/how he got elected.
Proud Liberal has poor reading comprehension. No one has said all illegal immigrants kill or commit horrible crimes. The same with muslims. No one said that either. But the problem is there are some that do and we let these people in unchecked and some of them ending up killing people. A lot of these people that call for so-called asylum have for many years just take off into the country before their hearing and never show up to it. Yeah um... that tells me they have no respect for law and order. Tell the family of Kate Steinle or the family of the victims at the Pulse nightclub in Florida that illegals and muslims are good people. They had to bury their loved ones because we have no borders and don't vet people well at all. The FBI and law enforcement have also dropped the ball many times with these school shooters. They get info prior to the events that should alarm them enough to take action and do next to nothing about it.
Let's vote in a QUALIFIED candidate: One who's gone to college for Political Science and Law and other categories of what you need with requirements. To have pure, deep knowledge of and about Politics -- prior -- to lead our whole country of states and the world, who's been IN politics prior to becoming a building tycoon, and then the President. someone who's been a Mayor, then Governor or a political lawyer. not one that is on On-the-Job-Training.
Ronald Reagan didn't act like this.
I wonder if his 1.5 years of chaos is considered experience for a new term? :-(
@ PL "Just like you say immigrants are criminals"
Umm...we have been saying ILLEGAL immigrants....huge difference.
@ PL "You are racists"
Pot calling the kettle black
@ PL "Its legal to seek protection"
Not if you do so ILLEGALLY!!!!!!
@PL "I am no longer reading or responding on this."
WE HAVE HEARD THAT BEFORE!!!!!
At this point I have no words for Proud Liberal....I cannot believe the mods have not banned her for her continual blunt racist remarks. Proof is in her posts that it is possible for people other then "white males" to be racist.... just look at her comments!!!!
Better people have been banned for far less on this site.....
After reading proud liberal's posts I actually WANT to vote Trump in for another term!!!! People like her (self privileged) are the problem in our country.
The chaos is mostly self-induced emotional turmoil though. That’s the problem in a nut shell.
The potus’ job is to *enforce* laws. Ignoring his juvenile antics, why can't we stick to looking at the law when discussing his actions? If the law is faulty then all of these crazy (borderline insane I might add) emotional outbursts should be directed at Congress, not the person whose job is to enforce Congress’ laws.
With a little help from his dictator buddies. Trump wants military parades. Unlimited term limits. The ability to pass the throne to Ivanka. His staff,along with the rest of the country, to bow in his presence. Cry and pray to his photo. He’s been going to dictator school for months now. He wants to be Kim-Jong or Putin. His behavior is indicative of a dictator. How can the Trumpers not see it? Trumpers are not supporters. They are fans. Draining the swamp and filling it with reality TV stars or golf caddies. He’s great at playing the shell game with all of us. Trump’s lies so much it’s confusing his fans and they aren’t even aware of it. To certain people, Trump’s great at hitting certain receptors. Something he learned from the celebrity life. Horrible at helping our country. Fox News says “real honest opinions” Opinions! And out of the thousands of news outlets, Fox is the only one that is not fake news. Those opinions are taken as fact! Hilarious!
I agree with you justintime....but the problem is as soon as you start spewing that "self-induced emotional turmoil though" on others....you create a problem....especially when you are pointing fingers at all the wrong people, and continually ignoring facts....all put together with changing what people said or how things were said to meet your agenda, and name calling. "Racist" gets thrown around because you have nothing else to say....etc.
I mean, heck...proud liberal is so far out there she actually believes people on this thread have a problem with "immigrants" ever single person who stated a problem said ILLEGAL immigrants.....yet proud liberal will believe what she thinks she hears because she is just on that high of a horse.....come down to reality and talk like an adult already.
Serious question - “QUALIFIED candidate: One who's gone to college for Political Science and Law” why are you hung up on the poli Sci major. Do you want career politicians ? I would hope not
Guilty-Remnant, Fox is number 1 in the ratings for a reason. They have triple the viewership that CNN does. People are turned off by the propaganda of CNN. It's so obvious when you watch those nitwits... As far as your other comments... lay off the crack...
I see you live in Lala-land if you think Trump is trying to rule for life and pass things down to Ivanka. FDR was the only President to have more than 2 terms and he is regarded as one of the best Presidents ever. Oh and he stuck Japanese Americans in camps. People that were actually citizens. And was a Democrat! You should read up on history...
One must pay attention to the demographic, those with the most time to lay around and watch tv news all day. A substantial amount of viewers for Fox are the same viewers that still have a landline phone, Lazy Boy, a VCR, and a house that smells like Rhiengold beer. Along with a walker and an AARP card.
Anyone younger gets their news/info from Google news....
"Fox is number 1 in the ratings for a reason. They have triple the viewership that CNN does."
I ducked back in quick because something's been nagging at me.
Zero tolerance for asylum seekers who are locked up and their children taken away even when they do it the correct and legal way. When they're lied to and denied access to the checkpoints, and surrender themselves at other places, they get arrested for the MISDEMEANOR and then jailed/kids taken without a bond hearing as required by law.
Zero tolerance, the heroes all say. The law is the law, and those who break it must be arrested. we're not a country if we don't follow our laws.
But...where's the zero tolerance of the undeniable, clearly documented cases of so many Trump personnel and family members lying to Congress and lying on their FS-86 security clearance forms? Those are both FELONIES.
SF-86. And got any links for that ?
Jarred had his interim revoked and had to do an addendum which he did and it was granted.
If an American citizen got arrested for a federal misdemeanor and could not prove residency or post bail guess what happens - welcome to the MDC and you can’t bring your kids. Stop virtue signaling
We thought Trump would never win because we thought America was better. Turns out we were wrong.
" We thought Trump would never win because we thought America was better. Turns out we were wrong."
Hard to take moral supremacy from the group that believes killing 600,000 babies in the womb every year is ok.
(the number is the most recent reported number, which is from 2014)
At least the number is decreasing- it's the lowest number since Roe v. Wade, which shows what direction American's opinions on the issue have been going, despite all the pink p*&sy hats and vile words at protests.
It’s hard to take moral supremacy from the party who ushered in Roe versus Wade in 1973. Yes, it was a Republican led Supreme Court that voted for abortion. Most of the Republican justices voted for it while most of the Democrats voted against it. Now you tell me who is morally supreme ? Hint - it’s not the Republicans.
“We thought Trump would never win because we thought America was better. Turns out we were wrong."
More than likely you thought that because of :
The 3 extra electoral votes California has due to illegal immigration (One electoral vote for every ~700,000 people and there are ~2.4 illegal immigrants in California.)
Your fellow socialists rigged the election (podesta and Huma Abedin) and she still lost
Right on JR.
Also the Time magazine cover played directly into Trump's fake news narrative. It's obvious that the hysterical anti Trump contingent, in addition to being against the majority of Americans on issues like abortion and open borders are not too bright.
The 600k number is disgusting and gross but I am so grateful it is moving in the direction it is. Praise to whatever God you believe in!
You are talking political parties. I am not, I am talking people. YOUR GROUP of people.
Hillary lost for many reasons. Feel the burn supporters got burned. 25 yrs. of the Clintons was long enough for those of us who remember them well. The list goes on and on. Half the country said enough is enough. What most people don't seem to understand, we've had President after President for the past 50 years who has been a "qualified" candidate. Has gone to college for political science and law. They've been polished, well groomed, schooled and trained for the Presidency. How many of those "qualified" candidates are lawyers?? Let me ask you this, as a Nation are we any better off? Are we as a people unified after all these "qualified" candidates? When I personally look across our Nation I see unrest, despair, hatred like never before. You mean to tell me one single man who was not a "qualified" candidate caused all this. I think not. The people of this Nation have been played with years and years of "qualified" candidates and their handlers.
I've never seen so much hate groups, killings, bullyings, unrealistic promises and lie after lie after lie (no wall built becasue Mexico never agreed to pay for it!!, and calling people from Mexico rapists and whatever else that was said)) to get people to want him, and more debt now in the US. Wait until you try to collect Social Security in the year 2034. LOL.
NO ONE SHOULD BULLY, MOCK, DEGRADE AND BELITTLE OTHERS, (ESPECIALLY HIM). what kind of Role Model is he? disgusting to have my kids and family listen to this almost daily, or read it in Twitter, the internet, the news, and everything in-between.
it was a popularity contest. who's more popular now in the entertainment industry? Would Oprah win? Would Beyoncé win? Taylor Swift and Selina Gomez have millions of FANS. G-d forbid any of the below enter the race, and the winner will be who has the most FANS........
Great post Auntiel. Agree 100%. The fact that Trump was NOT a career politician was a large factor in his appeal. He's no "Mr. Smith" ("Mr. Smith Goes To Washington"), but he's alot closer than anyone else in a very long time.
“I've never seen so much hate groups, killings,
Bullyings” - where is this happening ?
Anyone can run.
Oprah Winfrey would win on popularity. is she qualified?
let me apply for a job to be a train mechanic or a pilot --- and let me do on-the-job training. yeah baby. you think this is different?
he built and sold buildings. and is a Reality Star (lol). something that was released to the press said that he's about (don't quote exact amount) 0ne-half million ahead (incorporating all his "loses"). I thought i'd see he had a billion dollar empire or even a 50 million dollar empire.
enjoy this thread.
You are all talking about the presidents character. There are very few that I would like my children to emulate.
Wow Mexico beat and detained this US marine for 214 days for making a wrong turn but we should obviously give deference to illegal aliens fleeing their country
Old Gent, pertaining to character, well three come to mind, Ron, Abe and Jimmy (I know, not a good president, but he had morals).
"Thanks OldGent for the wise and honest opinion about MOST president's characters"
Fixed it for you.
So lets see... FDR put Japanese citizens in camps during WW2, Andrew Jackson was in power for the Trail of Tears where thousands of Native Americans died, and everyone before Lincoln allowed slavery. But yea lets label Trump as the most villainous president of all time for trying to secure our borders. You lefties don't pay attention to history I guess. And your mouthpieces Pelosi and Waters just continue to spew out one ridiculous thing after another and are making it easier for Republicans to win come election time later this year. If you think Democrats like that have the answers, then you must be high all of the time...
How about the tolerant left kicking out Sarah Sanders and her family from a restaurant in Virginia, disrupting DHS Secretary Nielsen's dinner at a restaurant in DC and harassing Florida General Pam Bondi attending a film documentary in Florida. The sad part is that this type of behavior is being encouraged by Maxine Waters.
Yeah and then people like her will bash a business that doesn't want to make a cake for a gay marriage. One is standing up for their religious belief the other just doesn't want to serve people because of their political stance. The latter is no different than when people didn't want to serve black people decades ago.
Is that a joke Metsman? Refusing someone service because of their political belief is the same as being denied service because of your race? But being denied service because of your sexual orientation is okay? I can't imagine the mental gymnastics you have to do to justify that statement.
To be actually reasonable, flip that statement around- the same holds true in reverse. Mental gymnastics indeed.
And to be clear on the SCOTUS "cake ruling", if I understand correctly, it wasn't baking the cake that was denied- it was the message they wanted on the cake that was (a homosexual wedding). He would have baked them a cake, just not put the message on it. It's similar to how some teachers are having kids recite a prayer Allah in public schools. You want to teach my kids the history of Islam, fine. I have no problem with history. But making them pray to a different God and giving them "prayers rugs" as homework projects... no effing way
Reasonable, well the Supreme Court sided with the cake owner. So guess what. You’re wrong. If the couple just wanted a plain cake then the gay couple has an argument. I believe the owner offered that and these two morons decided to cry discrimination. Whereas you have a restaurant that doesn’t want to feed a paying customer because they’re affiliated with Trump. There’s no laws or basis to back up this restaurant. They’d lose that battle if it went to court. That is discrimination.
Bzzzt wrong answer - you can’t discriminate based on political ideology in public accommodations
The American Court system is quirky.
It votes strongly for a man who's religious beliefs won't allow him to bake a rainbow colored cake.
It votes strongly for trans gender bathrooms. Pseudo men and Pseudo women in the same bathroom.
How is it going to vote on alien rights? The illegal ones, the little green ones ???
By the way felons, turn in your magazines. Your government made you felons with the stroke of a pen..
My recent choices were Harry Truman and Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan. from a character point of view. I am afraid the young people would not be aware of many before Harry. They are to busy tearing down statues and erasing history. They don't want to be reminded that the world is not pretty place. They may have only heard of Harry only for, dropping the bomb.
Forget the supreme court ruling for a second, that was about the trial anyway. All I am saying, is that snowflake Metsman is upset because they were denied service at a restaurant, and is saying that is EQUALLY as bad as the histroy of treatment of African Americans in America. Just want to make sure I'm getting that right.
No meathead, I said it was the same as not serving them. Both are discrimination.
JR: TRUMP'S character is like fart,like it or not!
JR: U can't fix trump's character and morals! Forget his presidency result, as a human being, he is horrible idol for any kids! If you want to teach your kids to emulate, trump,go ahead...nobody has issue with that. But don't try to butt in when two people are talking. I am still waiting for midterm, so that the majority the GOP has in house and Senate,they will still have it,but they can't deliver the wall now,let's see if they get majority after midterms and deliver the wall.
JR: Or did you miss me roasting you easy peasy here, that you won't let me talked to someone else and butt in to get my attention?
So you'd have you kids idolize Bill Clinton and his sex scandals? You'd have your kids idolize Bush who used BS intelligence to start the Iraq war? You'd have your kids idolize Obama who allowed a race war to start?
lets emulate Maxine Waters,Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer - the Face of the Democrat Party who are calling for harm to supporters of a sitting president.
In March, she told HuffPost that the horribly violent Los Angeles riots in 1992 were a “defining moment in the way that black people resisted.”
She also said, “These were people who had been basically forgotten”:
“And because of Rodney King’s beating and the current emotion that was stirring in that, it was like people were saying, ‘We’re here. You can’t do this to us. Look what you’re doing, look how you’ve been. Not only have you been with this consistent police abuse but the same people don’t have access to opportunities and jobs and health care and on and on.”
you want bike locks vs Glocks? because this is how you get it.
Metsman: Did I say that? Anything about bill or Obama?Nope! Was I speaking to you?Nope! Are you JR's sidekick? If I wasn't speaking to you or JR, why do you butt in? Can't handle my conversation with anyone that you seek my attention to start your fart class talk again? Bark somewhere else more appropriate, I don't entertain empty vessels or gibberish! And indicate who are you speaking to!
The Republicans are coming for your social security, medicare, and healthcare. Their $2.trillion tax giveaway and resulting US debt to China will jack your taxes eventually, the piper must be paid. The idiotic tariffs trade wars will ensure you pay far more for everything else, way more, probably about the time the recession kicks in.
The 1% Republicans don't care, they're set for life (thanks for the subsidized health care, they said). Are you set for life?
Putiin's ploy to bust apart the alliances that stop him from his plan to reassemble the USSR and likely world domination, destroy NATO, separate us from our allies, is all on track and going nicely. The alliance of Russia, North Korea, China, Iran, Syria, and others will be great for us, won't it? Payback's a you-know-what.
How's that 401k looking today? Just missed the worst losing streak since 1978 on Friday, but today is ominous.
Are we tired of all the WINNING yet?
Thanks to the tariffs Harley Davidson is moving production overseas.
Corporations are not patriotic. Well, maybe they were when many of the posters on here were not retired. American made as a brand has no value anymore. The greedy car companies that used planned obsolescence in their designs and the greedy workers there led us to where we are now.
Good job American greatest generation and boomer folk. You sold out your country. All you have left now is to have your local/regional public workers to bleed you out the rest of the way. Bankrupt Social Security, Medicare and rising taxes will be your legacy. A good number of you will live to see this happen-thankfully.
"JR: Or did you miss me roasting you easy peasy here, that you won't let me talked to someone else and butt in to get my attention?"
Do you even know what you're talking about? Because nobody else does LOL
"The Republicans are coming for your social security, medicare, and healthcare."
And the democrats are coming for the rest of it through higher taxes. Just ask Bernie: at least he's HONEST about it.
JR: people just need to read the thread to know what I am talking about.
All you know and have been showing is sarcasm,sad
Dodgebaal: I agree with you corporations are greedy. But I still don't understand why Trump's isn't trying hard to bring back manufacturing. China manufactures everything that are sold here. It will be difficult to bring back everything but at least certain percentage of manufacturing must be brought back, raw materials can be bought at cheaper rate but the cheaper labor there has killed the american manufacturing industries. The govt should have not allowed to export more than 80-90% of manufacturing, there should have been certain regulations. These corporations will tell they have to double/triple price, if they have to manufacture here based on operating,labor costs and other things. Sad, manufacturing has been lost like this by both the political parties
"All you know and have been showing is sarcasm,sad"
Have you finished your homework yet? No homework- no dinner!
After they're done kicking all the brown people, gay people, etc out of the country will you sit back in your easy chair satisfied, until you run out to get a gallon gas and a loaf of break, each of which will be $5?
I have plenty of problems with the Democrats too. But this guy just went full-on dictator mode today by coming right out and saying he's willing to violate the constitution and rule of law. I'd take ten more years of a normal republican even like G.W. or Reagan if we can just get this nut-case out of there before he unveils his plan with Putin to take complete control of our country.
Nobody's paying attention to the huge warning signs? anybody study up on Germany in the 1930's? Nobody worried about what kind of world your kids/grandkids will grow up in under Dear Leader His Eminence Donald J. Trump?
Better wake up and stop it now, because it's a slippery slope and we're already half way down it.
“After they're done kicking all the brown people, gay people, etc out of the country”
Um, you mean those who have arrived illegally (nice try continually painting a negative picture while ignoring reality)
“until you run out to get a gallon gas and a loaf of break, each of which will be $5?”
It’s called debt-based money. It requires (as in mandates) inflation. Surely you’re not just realizing that now?
“But this guy just went full-on dictator mode today by coming right out and saying he's willing to violate the constitution and rule of law”
Sorry, I don’t watch the news. Which part of the constitution did he say he’s going to violate? Regardless, in case you haven’t noticed he tends to say some pretty outrageous things; the real test is if he does them. What’s his score on that so far? (Saying va doing illegal things)
“Nobody's paying attention to the huge warning signs?”
Of course, but they are not what you think they are. Hint: it’s the economic system that’s destined to implode, and trump is full steam ahead! Gimme 110% Scotty! But she’s gonna blow Captain! Lol
“Better wake up and stop it now, because it's a slippery slope and we're already half way down it.”
Right theme, wrong reason. But I agree.
The ignorance of reality from the left is astonishing.
Right: Illegal Immigrants are Illegal
Left: You hate everybody you are a racist......
It is literally gotten that bad.....SMH
"After they're done kicking all the brown people, gay people, etc out of the country will you sit back in your easy chair satisfied, until you run out to get a gallon gas and a loaf of break, each of which will be $5?
I have plenty of problems with the Democrats too. But this guy just went full-on dictator mode today by coming right out and saying he's willing to violate the constitution and rule of law. I'd take ten more years of a normal republican even like G.W. or Reagan if we can just get this nut-case out of there before he unveils his plan with Putin to take complete control of our country.
Nobody's paying attention to the huge warning signs? anybody study up on Germany in the 1930's? Nobody worried about what kind of world your kids/grandkids will grow up in under Dear Leader His Eminence Donald J. Trump?
Better wake up and stop it now, because it's a slippery slope and we're already half way down it."
The EXACT same things were said about Obama. I know- I said some of them. I resembled you at one time, just on the other side of the isle. But that was before I learned and grew wiser. You too will learn, as time goes on, if you really want to.
Obama was a socialist dictator comparable to Hitler and it was going to be the end of the country as we know it. Well, we're still here. Only now the other side is in power, so the roles have reversed. Time immemorial. The pendulum swings.... it's just good cop/bad cop, from the other side....
But I must also admit, it's been an absolute JOY watching the democrats/liberals lose their collective minds this last year and a half... and they just keep digging the hole deeper, now with elected officials calling for "harassment" of opposing party members.
Skippy, your stupidity is showing.
The 3 extra electoral votes California has due to illegal immigration (One electoral vote for every ~700,000 people and there are ~2.4 illegal immigrants in California.)
1) You have no proof. No one has proof. It didn't happen. Your entire argument is based off a tweet even Trump has not tried to back up. I don't think you could find one reputable source who would even say this is possible.
2) You really believe Trump who lost CA to Hillary 2 to 1 had a chance there? California has always been a democratic stronghold. And that somehow he lost by 3 million votes and somehow that exact same number of illegals voted for HRC? George H.W Bush was the last republican to win CA, with only 51.1% of the vote. CA had more total votes in 2008 than in 2016.
3) Trumps own voter fraud commission disbanding, taking no action and finding no vote fraud.
4) Pure math even punches a hole in your story. In a state with a total population of around 40M, and around 18M registered voters - so you are saying that 17% of the registered voters are illegal? That's just impossible numbers.
You are far beyond just ignorant, but stupid, gullible and a threat to the very existence of this country, since you can't tell what is even remotely possible to be true or not.
Quite frankly, you are treasonous as your vile stupidity is helpful to all of America's enemies.
You are harmful to the county, civil discourse, and yourself. You desperately need mental health help.
JR,"The pendulum swings...it's just good cop/bad cop,from the other side" Very much agree with that.I urge all you to read this book "The Creature from Jekyll Island" by G.Edward Griffin. It is about the formation of the Federal Reserve in 1913 (and the history of central banking in the U.S..) There have been over 37 printings of this book and it is a Ron Paul must read. It is thru the printing of money and control of the monetary system that enables government and Wall Street to control all of us. It is how Bernie Sanders can shout from the roof tops that "It's FREE!" and have millions of young idiots all come out and vote for him because it is free (or is it?) The base of the Democratic party is all about free. SNAP,Obama Phone,Section 8 housing ,Welfare,Obama Care,Medicare,SS,HUD and the list goes on and on.By reading this book you will find out how we are all being played by big government and big money. The bottom line, it is free until it isn't but owe boy when that day comes, that is when the bill comes due and that is when we all pay for FREE. "Nations are not ruined by one act of violence,but gradually--and in almost imperceptible manner by the depreciation of their circulating currency,thru excessive quantity" Nicolaus Copernicus- 1525
Learned some things:
There are over 30 legal ports of entry along Mexico border where people can ask to come in, and not be seperated.
Some of the unaccompanied kids were not with adults who were actually their parents.
And lots of "kids" (under age 18) are in MS13.
Hosting each illegal costs as much as most college tuitions, per person, per year.
That's a lot of money.
If we snuck into Mexico, they'd put us in jail. If we ran up hospital bills in Mexico, They'd keep us there until the bills were paid by us, or our relatives. That's not fair.
And sneaking is not a good thing.
"The EXACT same things were said about Obama. I know- I said some of them. I resembled you at one time, just on the other side of the isle. But that was before I learned and grew wiser."
Thanks for the chuckle this morning. I needed that.
Here’s the thing about that: The U.S. Census Bureau counts illegal aliens as part of the 10-year census that is then used to apportion the number of House seats in Congress to each state. That is important because each state’s Electoral College votes are aligned with the number of congressional districts they have.
Illegal Immigrants Distort Congressional Representation and Federal Programs | Federation For American Immigration Reform
HRC's popular vote margin came from California - the state gave her all of its 54 electoral votes
California has the largest number of illegal immigrants in the United States, with an estimated 2.4 million unauthorized immigrants making up about 6.3 percent of the state’s total population, according to the Pew Research Center.
The Migration Policy Institute estimated the number of illegal immigrants living in California to be much higher than the Pew Research Center's estimate. The Migration Policy Institute estimated a little more than 3 million undocumented residents living in the state. Of those, 70 percent are from Mexico. About 412,000 come from Asian countries. Another 480,000 come from Central America and China.
By comparison, the state of Texas, as of 2010, had about 1.8 million illegal aliens. And though Trump won there by a wide 9-point margin, his victory was only about 800,000 votes—so you could make the same argument that the state’s electoral votes are outsized.
got any more of that data?
The majority of your arguments are emotional appeals that lack any form of substance. stop using faulty metrics. It's funny that someone resorting to personal attacks in an attempt to discredit those that hold opposing views considers me to be a threat to society and social discourse.
To that end I am glad the free speech thread had some impact - apparently were pretty much unmoderated now as the post above violates the letter and spirit of the TOS in several areas.
What the hell are the mods doing on this site?
My posts are being removed for speaking nothing more then factual happenings.....meanwhile in liberal-land.....alpha1beta's delusional threatening rants are allowed to stay??? are you kidding me?.....it is quite apparent whoever is approving this site is allowing their political views to choose what information stays and what information goes.
Until the "uppers" can keep their hands off a honest discussion.....it's not worth having.
“After they're done kicking all the brown people, gay people, etc out of the country will you sit back in your easy chair satisfied, until you run out to get a gallon gas and a loaf of break, each of which will be $5?”
OMFG BH2 what insane asylum did you crawl out of? No one is kicking brown people or gays out. People of various skin color and sexual orientation come to this country LEGALLY and no one says anything. What don’t you get? You can’t just walk into any country illegally….
Very surprised some of alpha1beta’s very insulting posts are allowed to stay up. Are the mods taking a nap?
Still want to know where this whole racist thing comes from. It seems like those pushing that meme might be the ones with racial biases...
I think A1s steak sauce must have gone rancid. WOW! What anger issues he displays. Can't believe personal attacks like that are allowed to stay up on this community forum. Think he needs some serious anger management classes, or an intervention before he hurts himself or somebody else. .
This New York Magazine article explains the liberal paradigms concerning racism.
1. The Civil Rights Movement was the last time they were relevant - the new breed of millennials in the party have no where near the tenacity nor the efficacy that the party did in the 60's They are perpetually looking to chase that dragon therefore we have the liberal implicit demand that racism never die despite the fact that it's not prevalent in society.
2. the socialist liberal narrative actually supports Plutocracy. (looking at you Maxine "poverty pimp " Waters)
“the left’s racial analysis of conservative politics might lend itself to careless or opportunistic, overreaching accusations of racism.”
" racial hatred plays a small role in the motivations of the major players. For them, it’s all about greed. Their policies are pitched to protect their own wealth and privilege at the expense of the poor."
the liberal worldview sees political activity as class war - straight out of the playbook of our friend, Karl Marx.
The Communist Manifesto - “The history of all hitherto existing societies is a history of class struggles.”
In bizarro world every move Republicans make must represent an attempt to kick a democrat out of their moms basement - regardless if it's better for the country.(you know - claims that good economic policy when combined with a well-ordered social structure is actually good for everyone.) To Marxists, the determination of conservatives to move on comes across as obtuse because they are still beating that drum. This also explains their tendency to vitriol and violence because they honestly believe themselves to be soldiers in some class war.
Ill leave you with this article from HuffPo on the 10 Ways White Liberals Perpetuate Racism
In other related news, the Supreme Court has just upheld the legality of the travel ban (which includes North Korea).
Very interesting skip. So racism isn't all one sided, as we are led to believe or accused of. Who would have thought such a thing? lol
It sure was nice of trump to sign an agreement that forces SOUTH Korea to disarm (e.g.”Korean Peninsula” refers to North AND South Korea., I always knew that Donald Trump was a liberal - i’ve always heard that only a liberal would want the good guys to be disarmed, knowing full well the bad guys never actually comply with laws....
GreyHawk: How about you and your kind stop hurting the entire world with your idiotic ideas.
You don't get it do you? I've taken to coming down to your level. I can't go low enough to meet you.
You're type doesn't like us "elites" talking down to you, so I'm jumped into the swamp to come down and argue with you, and talk to you on the level you're use to - cursing, personal attacks, childish nicknames - all the strategies of your President that you cheer for!
Yet you resent me, while others on the forum and your President say worse, spread outright definitive empirical
provable lies, ignore, at minimum attempted treason from within the country and ignore a foreign power messing with our elections. This isn't even about policy but basic Democracy.
You have sold - no, you haven't even sold, you've given away the very basics of America - open and free elections, without a care in the world, because you're side is currently winning.
You no leg to stand on, now or ever, until you address that fact.
Hypocrisy is the core and only republican value - you've given all the others away.
the only ones using personal attacks here seem to be the socialists - you in the lead.
got any of those "provable lies" ? Everything you have provided has been proved to be without merit.
Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it.” Thomas Sowell
I'm not a republican, your assumptions are wrong, dead wrong. In my view your anger level is off the charts. The way you viciously lash out at everyone tells me you have trouble dealing with your anger. I can refer you to some competent sources for help with your anger problem if you would like.
"cursing, personal attacks"
LOL you've cornered the market on that in this thread, I'm afraid.
Insults are the last resort of insecure people with crumbling position trying to appear confident. And/or you've got serious anger issues like GreyHawk said, along with extreme confirmation bias to go along with it.
Alpha strike us down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side shall be complete!
Whether you swing right or left.. This article is well thought out and well written. While it is an opinion piece, anyone who paid attention to history knows that it is repeating itselfm
“You have sold - no, you haven't even sold, you've given away the very basics of America - open and free elections, without a care in the world, because you're side is currently winning. ”
Ok, say what? You really need to follow through on that thought because on the surface it sounds like 100% bs. What are you talking about?
If that's what helps you sleep at night, have fun!
I can't help but laugh at your kind for dozens of reasons, so I guess we're not even!
In 20 years, it won't matter. We'll either be living in a post apocalyptic wasteland, in a autocratic dictatorship, or your kind will be dead or in nursing homes, enjoying national healthcare, social security, and tapioca pudding.
Not exactly a neutral opinion piece peder. There are some assumptions one would have to hold dear to agree with his position, namely that we don’t have immigration laws needing to be enforced. As I’ve said before, if the laws weren’t there and trump was targeting folks without basis then ok. But there *is* a basis, and if folks don’t agree with that basis then their ire should be directed toward the entity responsible: Congress.
Trump is an idiot, but he’s doing the job of enforcement, as it should be.
The Mexican Repatriation was a mass deportation of Mexicans and Mexican-Americans from the United States between 1929 and 1936. Estimates of how many were repatriated range from 400,000 to 2,000,000.:xiii:150 An estimated sixty percent of those deported were birthright citizens of the United States.:330 Because the forced movement was based on race, and ignored citizenship, the process arguably meets modern legal definitions of ethnic cleansing.:6
Widely blamed for exacerbating the overall economic downturn of the Great Depression, Mexicans were further targeted because of "the proximity of the Mexican border, the physical distinctiveness of mestizos, and easily identifiable barrios." While supported by the federal government, actual deportations were largely organized and carried out by city and state governments, often with support from local private entities
True Story! We kicked out actual citizens.. People who were born here.
JIT, finally, someone who is right on this thread.
Trump is an idiot (also known as a very stable genius)
He is actually doing his job of enforcing laws. (Normally his only interaction with laws is spitting in their face.
As I've stated in previous posts, there's plenty of unjust laws some have been overturned. Some haven't yet.
I won't try to make the case for open borders - I don't think that's the right answer, but I think the US has a position of leadership and a formerly firm stance on human life that we should consider when thinking about how to change these laws.
Also, the particular problem I and many others had was policy, not law, of separating and jailing kids and parents, sometimes in different locations (I have heard even in different states, but haven't seen enough proof of that - maybe someone here has the real facts on this?)
Here's a few suggestions to improve the process:
1) the issue of this pretrial detention is interesting, because its a misdemeanor, which for most of us may we may not even see the inside of a cell. However, having been caught at least sometimes, fresh over the border, it is hard to say well, here's your court date now be on your way. Jail is harsh for a misdemeanor. So what's an acceptable middle ground? Maybe there's a more humane way such as keep families together and build slightly nicer camps, where a family could have a primal cabin, some tiny bit of privacy and dignity? We could also work to speed up trials so people get to plea their case faster, are, if needed, sentenced faster and can be deported faster (Plus, I'd rather see my tax dollars going to Judges than to private prisons!)
2) Make it cheaper and easier to apply for citizenship or a visa. The average american could not afford to immigrate here. This is not saying to let people in easier, but to make the process to start easier. I also think its pretty insane that it takes 7+ years to become a citizen, but that's another discussion.
3) offer the ability to seek asylum at our consulates and embassies, so if you are in real danger, we can take you out of that danger quicker, not have you risk lives trying to get here illegally, and not need waste as many resources rounding up illegals.
4) add more legal border crossings. There's 48 for just under 2000 miles of border.
5) Start removing reasons to want to come here - not by making life hell for those who do, but getting to the source of the problem. I'd rather see my tax dollars used to hunt down and penalize businesses who hire illegals, than to chase down a handful of illegals.
6) I'm going to break with the liberals and say we need to stop giving handouts to illegals. No in-state tuition at college and such Now, visa holders, legal tax payers, sure. However, we need to give them a path toward citizenship or the legal means to leave ASAP. The Dreamers need a legal path too, immediately. These legal paths should not be harder than any others.
I mean, we're giving corporations who hide money overseas a break, why shouldn't we give humans the same chance to play it fair?
JIT, any ideas to how we could start to actually solve this problem permanently?
Just another stray thought...a federalized and automatic voter registration at 18 could cut down the *potential* for illegals to register to vote. You wouldn't have to register at the DMV and such.
See something, say something...and I am saying alpha1beta is completely off his stability chair....like possibly the next nut case we read about in the news (I certainly hope not)....the things you post here (as well as other outlets) speak wonders about your mental stability.
I really don't mean to be offensive...I am genuinely concerned....the hate you spew here time and time again is incredibly concerning. You literally cannot even have a real conversation without trying to convince yourself you are better then everyone else and part of a "elite" class....give me a break!!!!
Peder,that article you linked was anything but well written. He is calling Trump a fascist what lunacy. The left is having a melt down. You people are nuts! Go listen to Maxine Walters if you need more convincing.
The "handouts to illegals" is at the crux of the problem. We can't afford it. The cost is staggering.
Why do middle class republicans go after people living below the poverty line, struggling to survive and feed their family, who utilize government assistance? A lot of people here are probably one spouse losing their job away from probably being in a little bit of financial trouble and still the immigrants are the problem.
Sean Hannity made $36 million dollars in 2017 convincing you that your financial woes are the fault of the immigrants. God forbid somebody needs help once in a while. Of course there will be people who abuse the system, all systems have abusers. But this ridiculous claim that their handouts are the problem is kinda the problem in itself.
@Reasonable "God forbid somebody needs help once in a while."
That is not the problem....the problem is the people who RELY on that help because they know it is there.
Sure you can lend your friend $20....but when you yourself are in more debt then you can ever physically pay off.....do you still hand out $20 to your friends or say "sorry I do not have it?"
It's a handout of assistance....it is by no means REQUIRED for a government to do. And the unfortunate part is the general (general!!!!) mindset has become...i will just apply for financial aide.....as opposed to EVER even looking for a second job and trying to fix the problem themselves (just one example)
Bankruptcy has become a get out of jail free card.....aid has become a easy out card....it's time for this stuff to go back the other way....it is costing our government more money then they have.
Debt = all part of the plan. Keep us working = more taxes = more $$$ for govt.
If the govt had their way, they'd take ALL our money, and give us meager allowance, while they provided housing, healthcare, food, clothing..... sounds alot like marxism to me. A classless society....well, not really.... 2 classes: the ruling and the peasants.
In the 50s (when having only 1 household income was very common) it was predicted that by the 80s we would be working only 30 hours a week. It went the opposite way... now more often than not, BOTH homemakers must work to make ends meet. And we OWE...
...on our homes, our cars, credit cards, college degrees...... and even if someday you somehow manage to get all that paid off, you still owe property taxes, and they'll take your home away if you don't pay them.
Sure sounds like planned indentured servitude to me.
Can’t speak for others, and since I don’t associate as republican I'm probably not the one whose answer you're looking for, but here’s my take: You’re asking why certain people have no “generosity”, are so cruel hearted and selfish. But by asking the question that way you are ignoring that the method you’re choosing to implement said “generosity” is through governmental force and in reality is based on the threat of injury, loss of freedom or even death. Personally it’s the method I despise, not the desired outcome.
Most people I know are generous individuals and are more than happy to “voluntarily” help others in need. It’s only when someone else (politicians for instance) orders them to, with the threat of force behind it, that the wall goes up.
Choice, or in the case of government action the lack of choice, is the answer to your question. Forced vs voluntary. IMO of course.
And, to burst your bubble further, republicans give more money to charity than democrats, who prefer the "redistribution of wealth" (read: FORCE) method...
All righty then: let’s do immigration.
- Illegal immigration has been down for years, not up as Trump tells you to believe
= if you think it's higher, you are living a lie and have been for two years, check out PEW studies.
- Illegal immigrants have lower criminal rates than us indigenous citizens, far lower
= if you think they have higher rates than you, you are living a lie and have been for two years, Texas study
- MS-13 rates amongst illegals are about .1% of illegals. MS-13 represents 1% of US gangs. Recent ICE gang sweep caught 1,000 members, 7% were MS-13, 70 guys out of 1,000 gang members. Yes, these are awful guys --- but they are not streaming in as Trump tells it. If you believe they are, you have been living a lie.
- How can illegals be taking our jobs? We have been at full employment 95%) since Obama was in office; now we are even more fully employed. Ask yourself, what happens if illegal workers leave given there's no one left to employ?
The biggest whopper: Trump's commissioned study, which he has shelved, finds illegal immigrants added to government revenues, not detracted as Trump has told you to believe. Not only lied to, but the truth has been hidden from you by Trump. Look it up. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2017/09/19/white-house-nixes-study-benefits-refugees-report-says/681913001/ This was at the end of 2017. Nice.
It's not lies if you just click your heels and say MAGA three times and it will be OK..
And now North Korea. Thank he who loves that rascally NK leader who..."He speaks and his people sit up at attention, I want my people to do the same." HE has completed the agreement for denuclearizing the peninsula paving the way to remove our nukes from the region. The agreements says: "we will denuclearize," mission accomplished!
And that's only what we can see from the sky, thank god for our new Space Force, like that won't cost you and arm and a leg.
Need I say more?
Yea. But he is way behind the times. NK is old news. It is exciting times. There is a new issue every week.
And none of that matters, re: immigration. The border is not being controlled, we want it controlled, that's why people voted for him. Just like you voted for Obama because you wanted "universal healthcare". The people vote for the candidate who says they are going to do what THEY want done. We call them elections.
You're just bent because he did something no other president was able (or wanted to) do. Tough titties.
And BTW, that's God .... capital G.
well, give him a break... he's got a YUUUGE read to read thru.... LOL
Actually....Don started the Space Force, lower case g....
We all want border control; the question is how do we construct the barrier --- useless physical wall or smarter deterrents. Mandatory incarceration of asylum seekers, splitting up families of asylum seekers; these do not achieve that goal.
I react to the imperative for immediate incarceration, separation of families, and the like and, I am sorry to say, the facts just don't support what the President is saying. The law does not support what he implemented, and the unintended bad results continue to accumulate.
People seeking asylum turn up for court 75-80% of the time. Of the ones who don't, a large number have just moved and don't know how to inform the court. Others skip because lack of legal representation makes skipping seem less risky than appearing and with good reason. Those without representative usually end up deported for some reason.
My point: if representation were better provided, or the process made for dummies, my guess is the 75-80% would increase to less than 5% skip.
These kids, who we used to not house, cost us up to $1,000 a day that we didn't use to spend. That's $2M a day. 3/4 of a Billion $$ per year. That does not include the cities we have built, the extra personnel, all the costs involved in Trump's new prison system that we didn't use to pay for with a 80% appearance rate that, I am sure, can be made "full appearance" given some representation support.
Now Trump wants to avoid due process to speed up deportations. He is against hiring judges to speed up deportation. Does skipping due process seem OK to you?
Once the US championed asylum rules across developed nations throughout the world. Now we begin to turn off that shining light on the hill. This is asylum, not illegal immigration.
Factually, spiritually, morally, economically, you are on the wrong side of history on this one and it can only get worse for you. Already there are stories of parents who signed papers to be deported immediately. What do you think was offered to accomplish that little ditty after a 2,000 trek on one of the most dangerous treks in the world? The facts are coming in and it looks really creepy and unAmerican.
Personally, I would suggest you reconsider your stand on this one, based on the facts.
This is lovely... I suppose the children should be in jail cells with their parents according to liberal logic...
On 6/27/18 at approx. 8:04AM the Hackettstown police assisted the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement with serving an ICE warrant on 30yro Luis Froilan Ortega-Calle of Hackettstown, NJ who lived at an apartment on the 100 block of Main St. The officers knocked on the door and a 6-year-old female answered. The officers observed the apartment to be disheveled and unclean. It was determined that she was left home alone with her 9-month-old and 3-year-old sisters. As the officers were standing outside the apartment building, the officers observed Luis F Ortega-Calle and 26yro Josselyn Eneida DeLeon-Garcia of Hackettstown, NJ turn the corner onto Main Street from the alley way next to Marley's Gotham Grill. When they saw the officers, they turned around and ran back down the alley way. The officers caught up to them on Sharp Street next to municipal lot #2. Ortega-Calle was taken into custody by ICE officers. Through an investigation it was determined that Ortega-Calle and DeLeon-Garcia left their children without care or supervision while they went to work from June 26 at approximately 11:30 p.m. to June 27 at approximately 8:30 p.m. The Division of Child Protection and Permanency took custody of the children from the scene. Both were charged with 3 counts of second-degree child neglect. DeLeon Garcia was lodged in the Warren County Correctional Facility. Ortega-Calle was lodged in the Essex County Correctional Facility.
What should happen to their employers?
If they are illegals, then it would be illegal to hire them, do you agree?
Do you agree that we teach those that hire illegals get a real lesson?
Seize their property, bank accounts, houses, businesses, etc?
If illegals had no jobs to go to, they would have been home with their children, or even all the way back from where they came, do you agree?
6% of the NJ population is illegal. I guarantee there are a lot of them on Main St.
Guess that means there are a whole lot of employers that need to go to prison.
You probably frequent some of these businesses.
Maybe your favorite eatery. Or something else. Maybe your friend's business.
These illegals are being hired by your fellow "Americans."
They are just as much criminals as the illegals are.
What do you think should happen to those Americans that hire illegals?
Maybe they will wave a flag on the 4th of July as true patriots.
"Seize their property, bank accounts, houses, businesses, etc?"
No. But they (the employers) should be prosecuted for breaking the law, LIKE ALL CRIMINALS (and, illegal aliens being criminals by definition)
What is the rule of law for?
Or do you only like the rule of law when it's going against someone you dislike?
He's back! My scroll down button has gotten dusty. He is who he is. I would rather have SD back than what's been here lately. With SD it's kind of a Love/Hate relationship. Welcome home!!!
the landlord should get a massive fine as a example,they knew what was going on.
Maybe they should go after the people who hire illegals, as some previously posted. If there’s no work waiting for them, they won’t want to come here. They work off the books , for peanuts,14 hour days, picking produce, in horrible weather, so they can send a few bucks back to their family. Some traveled for thousands of miles, to escape even more dangerous conditions, than enroute to America. A lot of them probably still think America is a warm and fuzzy place to be. Big companies like Wal-Mart or Whole Foods may have to hire people, already here legally to work in their fields. At least minimum wages, benefits extra book keeping, etc..That’ll go over, like a lead balloon. Why isn’t anybody questioning the ultra wealthy, who hire cheap, illegal, low wage, no benefits help? It was the wealthy greed that fueled (and still does) people to come to the land of opportunity. Need to start at the top 1%. Look into their hiring practices and every employee they govern.
the landlord is responsible for the renters,that is why we have leases..i am sure they did not,maybe Hackettstown and the zoning office should pay more attention instead of a blind eye...the heath dept. should now inspect the apt's for deplorable and un sanitary conditions.
building trades are the biggest offenders -
“the landlord is responsible for the renters”
How so? Is it like e-verify but for landlords?
Speaking of e-verify, is asking employers to be an extension of law enforcement still optional in nj? Last I heard it was still voluntary.
JR and Metsman are in agreement.
Those that hire illegals should be punished. Yet they are against this"
"Seize their property, bank accounts, houses, businesses, etc?"
This would be a great deterrent-so why be against this?
It's a matter of national security. These employers are risking American lives, bringing in , as has been stated , MS-13 type characters into the USA.
What real Red blooded American would not consider these employers traitors?
Bottom line is these employers, that Metsman and JRepub want punished by law, really know that the current law makes the punishment so lenient that it is clearly ineffective. It's like giving Trump a parking ticket.
These employers need jail time, and all of their property and assets forfeited. The illegals would go home with no work, and no wall would be required, (we could build one anyway just for fun, I'm ok with it..
Anyone who is not willing to SEVERELY punish these employers are not really interested in solving the problem, they want to enjoy the benefits of cheap labor, then look like American hero's thru virtue signaling.
LMFAO...look who came crawling back!!!!
Now back to ignoring him!
But just one thing stuck out....@SD "Does skipping due process seem OK to you? "
Hmmm....you seemed fine with this when it came to gun laws......
“What real Red blooded American would not consider these employers traitors”
Red blooded American? And jail time and asset forfeiture?
Keep piling it on lol. Maybe some more trigger words will help!
"This would be a great deterrent-so why be against this?"
Because it's not "punishment", it's tyranny.
And no, they are not "traitors", any more than any other criminal is a traitor. They broke a law, they didn't share top secret state secrets. "Traitor" is reserved for very specific actions.
Why not just start chopping of people's hands if they get caught shoplifting? After all, it would be a great deterrent. Hey, the muslims do it....
TY Auntiem, I think....
"This is lovely... I suppose the children should be in jail cells with their parents according to liberal logic..." No, we should rip families apart over misdemeanors and put the kids in tents in 100+ weather. Then we tell the parents, sign this or never see your kids again, and then we deport them without their kids. I suppose you think that's better. Now we want to take judges out of the equation and just process em in some manner as desired by the President completely obliterating their rights and the rule of law. Lovely indeed.
"Time to do a clean sweep of Main St. This town is getting ridiculous..." What are we sweeping here Mets? Pedophiles? Illegals? Latinos? Men? One or more of the above? Can we come to your house to check under the beds? Is this the same guy that the ICE guys got?
Undocumented workers. I have said for years, just make e-verify the law of the land, problem solved. Right now 20 states have partial or full support. No wall needed for that. No need to police employers for every hire. Just make e-verify work, ez-to-use, and universal --- just like we do gun control, heh, heh... E-verify seems like a pretty good system in pretty good shape, make it so. It's not perfect but AZ has used since 2008 and I would gather a wall-builder could make e-verify run smooth as silk: http://money.cnn.com/2017/02/28/news/economy/e-verify-immigration/index.html
Asylum seekers: quit separating families, quit incarcerating, just vet, release with a court date. We will save BILLIONS, 80% will turn up for court, we can get to 95% with better representation process, perhaps some ankle bracelets, whatever ---- but let's stop building a new prison system. These folks are less criminally inclined than the indigenous peoples, so let's just move on.
“LMFAO...look who came crawling back!!!!” My, that seems a tad rude, no? “Hmmm....you seemed fine with this when it came to gun laws......” Whatever do you mean?
“Yea. But he is way behind the times. NK is old news. It is exciting times. There is a new issue every week.” Good to see you again too. Yes, a Trump tactic to keep the new ball rolling works well when folks look at yesterday’s news as passé or superseded.
Did you click your heels, say MAGA three times and salute when you act like he wants you to act? Because while you may have agreed with the repeater-in-Chief that the peninsula, including SK which apparently we think for, denuclearize, I think it’s just some locker-room talk and hope you will not agree with what he says about North Korea.
So far it’s really just a photo op.
Perhaps the fact that NK proceeds to expand nuclear research facilities is old news. Is that because you believe the mission is accomplished? Reactors are being made ready to produce fissionable materials like plutonium.
There is no plan, there is no planned meetings, there isn’t even a North Korean counterpart to Pompeo for these negotiations.
But the real reason for relevancy here is this question, to which none of us have the answer: “what’s Trump’s next move when he doesn’t get what he said he would.”
80% WILL SHOW UP IN COURT...lol ....2 different people on Main street..The kids are better off with child services than with these parents.
Why is it ok for other countries to randomly ask for paperwork but if we do it here it's racism? People, mainly liberals need to pull their heads out of the sand...
"80% WILL SHOW UP IN COURT...lol" Apples and oranges of illegal immigration, asylum seekers, and two child abusers on Main Street. Sorry and yes, these kids are not all right and child services is a good idea.
However.....ripping kids from parents over a misdemeanor is not only cruel and unusual, but also expensive, inefficient, and ineffective. Most of these families, around 80%, will turn up to court. The 20% gap can probably be closed via better representation and some leg bracelets. My link: http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2018/jun/26/wolf-blitzer/majority-undocumented-immigrants-show-court-data-s/
Point is asylum seekers are first vetted for authenticity. If we vet correctly, they are most likely seeking asylum as we vetted. If they have representation, and the vetting is good, chances are they will be granted asylum, over 50% make it. If they don't have representation, chances are they will be deported, 90% are deported.
So, if we vet well, if we create a better representation system (or one that does not require it), if we bracelet track any higher-risk folks, we could spare the family being ripped apart, a few billion $$$ of year we JUST STARTED spending for our new prison tent farms, without destroying America as we know it, IMO.
@SD "My, that seems a tad rude, no? "
Your the one that said bye for good....then came back not even a month later.....
"“Hmmm....you seemed fine with this when it came to gun laws......” Whatever do you mean?"
Your already going to start playing like you have no idea what I am talking about...man sometimes I wish I was a liberal....life must be so much easier to answer to when you just "selectively" forget things you said.
Here is an idea for everyone.....it's no secret that the boarder is hammering down....so how about NOT trying to illegally cross it with your KIDS no less??
SD, you are worried about the kids in 100 degree heat...in a tent??? Do you have any idea what it takes to attempt to cross the boarder? Compared to the trip and endangerment their parents just put them through that's a 5 star resort! Misdemeanor? The parents should be jailed for child endangerment!!!
You say we cannot spend any tax money on a wall, but it's totally fine to be dumping millions on the thousands of people trying to ILLEGALLY cross our boarder...and give them air conditioning already!!!!!! Really???? You have to be kidding me!!!!!!!!
so your proposal is to release these folks into america and hope that 6-8 out of 10 show up for court. meanwhile how are they supporting themselves?
"The report used figures from the Executive Office for Immigration Review, which is tasked by the Justice Department with handling immigration court proceedings, appellate reviews and administrative hearings. Between 2003 and 2012, the percentage of all immigrants who failed to appear in court after being released has bounced between 20 percent and 40 percent, settling in at about 30 percent at the end of that time span. (No data for children specifically is available from this long-running data set.)"
But the real reason for relevancy here is this question, to which none of us have the answer: “what’s Trump’s next move when he doesn’t get what he said he would.”
I would never try to second guess him. So far a great Supreme court pick and exposing the Swamp that been filling up for years. It will take years to drain it. If he gets the wall built, That would be great. The first rule for Government is to protect us.
Gee, it seems the EU leaders (who regularly criticize Trump) are also setting up immigrant "processing centers" for asylum seekers and completely turning away (or shipping off to Libya) what they call "irregular migrants".
Maybe enforcing our laws against illegal immigration isn't such a crazy/unique idea after all?
"put the kids in tents in 100+ weather."
Tents with air conditioning...
Yeah, the porta-johns probably suck in that heat, but its still better than wiping your butt with a cactus.
I'm really enjoying all the fake Christians on this site. Wonder how Jesus would treat these "criminals" trying to escape hellish conditions in their home country to give their kids a better life. The lack of compassion and empathy shown by so called Christian on this site is pathetic
I never advocated removing body parts for shoplifting, enough with the drama. Just financial and jail sentences, this is not capital punishment.
"They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists."
a person who betrays a friend, country, principle.
That does qualify based on what the president says about illegals.
And how does taking away ill gotten gains rise to the level of tyranny?
Obviously the "punishment" that exists is not enough to keep Americans from hiring illegals, but putting someone in jail for it is tyranny? We do that to kids with a joint, why not to someone hiring an illegal who, as many have stated, are criminals, cost taxpayers money, and are, as Trump stated, are rapists and drug dealers.
I guess you are fine with a slap on the wrist, then business as usual, as long as you benefit from the cheap labor provided. Would you rather jail drug users than drug dealers-the drug is the money provided by these employers, the dealers are those that hire.
Because it's not "punishment", it's tyranny.
And no, they are not "traitors", any more than any other criminal is a traitor. They broke a law, they didn't share top secret state secrets. "Traitor" is reserved for very specific actions.
Why not just start chopping of people's hands if they get caught shoplifting?
Bwahaha Mark...looking at that picture all those tents have air conditioning!!! Good catch!!!
SD=FOOT IN MOUTH
"Your the one that said bye for good....then came back not even a month later....." Tell me about it, he who's claims to ignore me.... Way to double down on your snarky retort. You know exactly why I was departed, we conversed with some private email, feel free to share more of our private emails, please do.....because then I can feel free to share exactly what you have said. That's cool.
""“Hmmm....you seemed fine with this when it came to gun laws......” Whatever do you mean?"
Your already going to start playing like you have no idea what I am talking about..."
I asked the question; you deflected on answer. Perhaps I just ignored you before....Can't you answer? Back up your comment, please, if you will.
I find it a stranger danger that Darrin admits he wants to double down on the incarceration depravation for asylum seekers. Do you really think AC at 100+ degree is a luxury just because they didn't have it before? Many of these folks are not illegally crossing, they are seeking asylum --- legally. "The parents should be jailed for child endangerment!!!" Come on, tell us that was blunder type? You don't really think these folks are making this journey because they are child abusers, do you? Do you really think they are not fleeing something even worse than the trip topped off by the cruel and unusual punishment that you want to mete out once they get here?
Skippy, given the inaccuracy of the surveys due to lack of data tracking, both our numbers are in the ballpark. You missed the part where no-shows are often do to being lost because they moved OR because of a lack of representation that most feel will get the numbers in the 9-10 out of 10 range. Some bracelets might even improve that and we can save BILLIONS each year we are spending to create tent cities. Point is we can create a asylum system that reflects our 1967 Asylum Protocol based on the 1951 Refugee Convention confirmed by 145 member states.
You know, back when we were a shining light upon the hill who convinced others to act humanly and compassionately and provided an example beacon to follow. Now we just piss on many previous agreements, conventions, and institutions in a truculently chaotic irresponsible fashion. Now we hold kids hostage for a PR stunt.
Your links are interesting and I agree, we should, like EU, process asylum seekers. Matter of fact, vetting is crucial and turning away those who do not vet can be appropriate. However, your sources do not mention mandatory incarceration for parents, they do not mention physical separation of families, or even children at all. So I don't see how they relate to my IMOs......
Since they are "criminals" Under Caesars laws, Jesus said Give unto Caesar the things that are Caesars and unto God the things that are Gods. They are treated pretty well when judged by what other country's do. If the world followed Jesus, it would be a whole different world. IMOP
"Your links are interesting and I agree, we should, like EU, process asylum seekers. "
And we are... by catching them at the borders and making sure they don't skip town.
You glossed over the part where they want the Libyan Coast Guard to intercept the boats and bring them directly back to Africa though. Maybe Europe is finally starting to realize that borders actually mean something.
Peace B with U that doesn't mean continue to let everyone in unchecked because their country sucks. The AC on those tents looks a lot better than what I have. I'm guessing they didn't even have AC in their country.
SD so you disappeared because someone made you cry? LMAO...
I love reading hyperlocal sites like this to see whether neighbors behave any differently from the national crassness. Sadly, from the tone it doesn't seem to be going well. People on the right want the wall or sic ICE on the illegals. Gotta show there's a new sheriff in town. The libs on the other hand endlessly play up audiotapes of kids separated from parents to tug at our heart strings. In the meanwhile, as others have pointed out, e-Verify could stop this nonsense. That giant sucking sound of illegals leaving when jobs evaporate. We need to hold congress' feet in November to fix immigration once and for all and allow only legal workers into our farms and industry. We can still be that shining beacon on the hill and get back to being neigborly.
" In the meanwhile, as others have pointed out, e-Verify could stop this nonsense. That giant sucking sound of illegals leaving when jobs evaporate."
Agree. Things like eVerify and prosecuting those who hire illegals would go a long way.
Some would rather they get in, make someone 500k in profits with a 10k penalty (net 490k), then cheer when ICE takes them away. It really does bring some sort of pleasure it appears.
There needs to be a real deterrent for those that hire illegals, not a watered down penalty that a bean counter can use to reward bad behavior. I suggest this and it is called being tyrannical. The penalty should be mandatory prison time. This would stop those from hiring illegals dead in their tracks. No work, they won't come here.
"There needs to be a real deterrent for those that hire illegals"
Dodgebaal - I googled the topic and see that there are already escalating criminal penalties in place including jail time. Perhaps these are not enough and there needs to be something like 3 strikes to shut down the business ... who knows.
But my bigger point was... perhaps, as members of this small local group, we need to back off the incendiary track and discuss solutions civilly without imputing motives. Speaking for myself, I have found more satisfaction in the ordinary and mundane on the Hackettstown forum and would hate to see that degrade.
"there needs to be something like 3 strikes"
3 strikes to me is excessive.
This is basically a license to allow it 2 times first. No excuse for not using eVerify except for greed.
These businesses know exactly what they are doing, they are taking advantage of cheap illegal labor, which encourages more illegals from jumping the border.
They are not minor players in this, and our president, who attacks Harley Davidson, does not put legislation against owners of these corporations who hire illegals. The loopholes such as hiring "contractors" without liability has to stop.
From MtDude’s link:
“What If the Illegal Immigrant Is Using a False or Stolen Identity?
Illegal immigrants who seek employment often engage in identity theft in order to work in the United States. Employers are required to make a good faith effort to make sure that their employees are legally permitted to work in the country. Good faith efforts include checking social security numbers and making sure the numbers are valid.”
A good faith effort is kinda vague, which is why in reality it’s nothing more than a built in loop hole. E-Verify is supposed to deal with that, but since our representatives in Congress refuse to mandate its use the above loophole remains in effect.
So once again, if we as a nation wanted to truly deal with this problem then our reps would mandate e-verify use because that system is already built and available to all employers. The problem is Congress, as usual.
That said, I don’t really believe that this Congress wants to stem the flow of illegal immigrants. The value of that labor pool is too great in some sectors of the economy for our “bought and paid for” (aka lobbyist controlled) Congress folks to act.
A loophole,lobbyist controlled, is a manipulation of the normal flow of capitalism.
Medicare spent $2 billion for one drug, Acthar, as the manufacturer paid doctors millions,
117,000 per year for one medication alone. Lobbyists are not your friend. It costs roughly 200k to raise a child, but 117k for one year's worth of medication.
This bleeding will only increase as the boomers continue to retire and drain the benefit pool.
Lobbyists and the corporate manipulation of our government is a really big problem.
@SD """“Hmmm....you seemed fine with this when it came to gun laws......” Whatever do you mean?"
So you are claiming that you never said that you were okay with guns being taken from people before due process? I am not putting much time into your game here...you and I know exactly what I am talking about and that is all that matters.
@SD "I find it a stranger danger that Darrin admits he wants to double down on the incarceration depravation for asylum seekers."
So let me get this straight....you are okay with spending millions to provide a "home" for people who are not even citizens and have never even paid a cent into our tax base....but you are not okay with spending millions to secure our boarder? Something that would protect the very people who pay into the tax base...then you double down by trying to make it alright claiming only a low percentile of them are gang members....um what??? How is their country being horrible America's problem? Have you ever tried to cross into Mexicos boarder illegally....know what they do to people?
@SD "Do you really think AC at 100+ degree is a luxury just because they didn't have it before?"
Uhhhhh...YEAH.....what do you consider it? Your the one that said
"No, we should rip families apart over misdemeanors and put the kids in tents in 100+ weather." trying for some emotional points like they have it so bad......meanwhile they have air conditioning, TV, video games, meals, etc in those oh so lousy tents.....maybe we should spend some more money and build a 5 star resort for them down there? That's what you seem to want...but in the meantime lets NOT take care of ourselves...something we have put on the back burner for how many years now?
It’s OOCM time (Out of Context Man…..) “The libs on the other hand endlessly play up audiotapes of kids separated from parents to tug at our heart strings.” Yeah Dude, that’s why we do it…..because we know the sustained effect of crying children. It’s a ruse. Or is it reality. Or are we are just playing to the audience who just loves to hear the sound of crying…..music to Jeff Session’s ears.
Darrin responded: “Bwahaha Mark...looking at that picture all those tents have air conditioning!!!” See, Darrin likes to cry. But let’s not pile on, he’s a new father Crying can be a good thing and he’s got more of it to come….Compassion --- nah….
Mets says: “…someone made you cry? LMAO...” “The AC on those tents looks a lot better than what I have.” Wow, man lives in worse conditions than an AC-featured tent. He should seek asylum.
Hey, I don’t mind that some here think other’s crying is funny. The kids are all right says OGent: “They are treated pretty well when judged by what other country's do. If the world followed Jesus, it would be a whole different world.” That’s right, we could just crucify them! Problem solved. As long as the kids are better off than other countries, it must be cool. Is Syria the benchmark?
MarkM struck the bottom line though, “Yeah, the porta-johns probably suck in that heat, but its still better than wiping your butt with a cactus.” Badda bing, badda boom. The ole “sure beats nailing babies to the floor” defense. Wait….we are nailing babies to the floor…..I guess as long as it’s better than living in Ecuador and cactus wiping, we are taking the high road still. You know, the shining light WE put on the hill.
Over 2,000 kids still separated. You may not want to hear it, they are still crying. Think we are putting together 6 families every three weeks with Trump-like efficiency. Parents are being deported w/o their kids, sometimes through shady practices. Injury and abuse reports continue to grow. Obviously, they can’t find the kids, the parents, or both.
Yeah, the kids are all right. We are paragons of virtue.
These are asylum seekers Darrin. Use the 1967 Asylum Protocol in action and, more important, in the intent that WE THE PEOPLE not only created, but convinced over 140 other sovereign nations to comply with. Vet em, immediately deport the ones that don't vet, ankle bracelet the rest and 99% will turn up in court. Give them their rights, by the Constitution, for due process without cruel and unusual punishment. The ones that don't you probably didn't vet right so use the outages to fix the vetting process.
No tent expense, no mil-spec prison expense, no cost of additional trauma caused by this new Session's/Trump process that you applaud.
What would you do if someone did this to little D? How long would you remember? Would you say "fair and balanced," or cruel and unusual.
Well I don’t think little D will sneak into Mexico , commit voter fraud, wave an American flag, work illegally, demand free education and healthcare refuse deportation and call everyone a racist when they attempt it so there’s that
They can only work illegally if greedy American's hire them.
It's your own American comrades that are supplying the fuel for the fire.
You enjoy the cheap labor because it helps Americans buy things for less than they would cost if you were not so cheap and paid for American labor.
Not surprising coming from a country built on slave labor...
Who fed them over the two to three thousand mile journey?
Who gave any female over 12 years of age the Plan "B" birth control that shows up during the arrest?
George Soros "Open Society NGO" of course.
Where's the UN? Refugees are to be taken in by the 1st country they arrive at according to the UN, Geneva, or Agenda 21.
Trump did not write the law for Caesar. He is just enforcing the law for Caesar.
( Congress) They are the ones that can fix it. We are all well aware that they don't move very fast. I just heard that a judge said they must reunite the family's in 30 days.
You know that’s spin, right OG?
I mean then why did he rescind it via EO (which he didn’t even require but its a favored phito op)??
Is Trump a Christlike figure now?
What spin? If an eo is outside the scope of presidential power then it should be fought in the sc.
Eo’s are meant for policy orders, not overriding Congress. We should all be enraged if that’s the case.
Spot on Skippy thanks for handling my light work.
Secondly...I, as his parent would never put him through such a grueling and dangerous trip.
Yes...asylum seekers...but still crossing the boarder ILLEGALLY!!!!!!! How come this is so hard to understand?
The amount of people trying to illegally cross the boarder is staggering (i do not think you realize this).....we cannot afford to just give these people citizenship and send them on in....plus there is a law to hold them to. They could have taken legal steps...but they choose not to....some with their children.
Trump was enforcing the law just as Obama did in 2014. Don't like the law, petition your Congressman and Senator to change it.
The spin was to call mandatory incarceration and family separation “just enforcing it.” Obviously his writing an EO, which you defined quite well, does not create law but ends a policy within the law that Sessions and Trump made up to begin. Proves his “just following the law” comment was spin for the gullible. Instead he chose this method to enforce the law. Didn’t even write an EO to enact this policy. Wonder why he skipped that photo op. Sessions just whispered “make it so.”
Yes, Trump is Christlike. Christ grabbed women by the p—-y, fornicated with porn stars, lied, cheated, refused to pay bills, called people names, etc.
Trump is very Christlike. Why else do you think Christians voted for him? They saw Christ in him. And they want their children to emulate him.
"Yes, Trump is Christlike. Christ grabbed women by the p—-y, fornicated with porn stars, lied, cheated, refused to pay bills, called people names, etc."
I think I read that in 2 Corinthians.
Who gave any female over 12 years of age the Plan "B" birth control that shows up during the arrest?
You prefer anchor babies? I’m surprised at you. Thar’s not very Trump-like.
Which are you referring to?
There’s so much that it’s hard to keep track.
Darrin says: "So you are claiming that you never said that you were okay with guns being taken from people before due process? I am not putting much time into your game here...you and I know exactly what I am talking about and that is all that matters."
Not sure the game you are talking but I do not claim anything. I am plainly saying that I do not understand what you are talking about. And telling me I do, or it's some kind of game, is not going to help that. I have talked about some common sense gun laws, some with my own twists, but I don't recall advocating taking guns from people before due process? Can you elaborate more than lambasting me for "gamesmanship?"
SD you know that the law has been in place since way before trump - it goes back to the 90s in fact - this policy does too - didn’t you see children wrapped up in Mylar blankets circa 2014.
@Skippy "I’m all for paying for American labor"
And I am all for prosecuting those who hire illegal labor.
Here is a thought....prosecute the illegals as well as those hiring them and create a work program replacing them with people collecting unemployment?
Skipping: where does the law call for zero tolerance mandatory incarceration and forcible separation of families because I do not see it in the 1967 Asylum Protocol that we championed and got 145 other sovereign nations to sign.
We have done many things before that we see as questionable today. That's not an answer or a rationale.
Can you cite a source?
Interesting if it had a source.
Think that's the fake news source. Nice job JYM. Lots of source-less stuff on this thread. Et tu Skippitus?
Darrin: what people on unemployment?
Why don't you Google it, Mr. Google? I am certain most of the crap you post is made up in your twisted brain. When you're not twisting others words and avoiding direct questions. We know how you operate. By the way, when are you welcoming some refugees into your home?
Uhgg. Stop with the fake news already. You didn’t provide any more facts than the op did, sheesh.
Staring with #1, some info here with a link to a USDA 2015 info document. Do the math then come back with how far off the original statistic is:
Which links to here:
I have no idea how far off the number is. What I do know if that both posting and responding in generalities isn’t always best.
JYM - If you google that meme, or better do TinEye to trace the origins of a picture it comes up as "Political Vel Craft" as a site promoting Saint Vladimir, "Father of Russia". The site also extols the virtues of Ron Paul 2012. Not only outdated, but perhaps under the "made up" category you're trying to avoid. Not a surprise JIT calls "Fake News". Even though that was declared a totally emotional response when "take the emotion out" was the mantra.
There's so much disinformation about the immigration process. The rule of law is a good starting point, but the separation of what is policy vs. law is what the EO is about. Trump spewed about law but it turned out it's Sessions policy in an effort to punish and deter by advertising what jerks America wants to be. The EO is a result of his wife being compassionate, nothing more. Trump doubled down twice about what he said was out of his hands. Then signed the EO that showed it was all about him.
Asylum vs simple illegal border crossing is exactly what the 67 law is about. It's not in any way stupidity of one countries laws but accepted world wide. You don't want some Lebanese German citizen innocent tortured in Syria to show up in Turkey when going through the checkpoint there would have landed him right back in Syrian jail. This is a world wide problem with world wide agreements. It's why we give due process - because we want due process for our citizens world wide.
The same is true of border crossings vs cases of current residents. Kids vs adults, alone vs accompanying. All of the scenarios are different and covered by different rules. Just like ICE actions when one parent is completely legal doesn't excuse complying with American law. It's not so simple, and it's not just "this is jail it's done". Just like many kids in the 16-18 range that come alone are different, so are families of people opposing drug cartels (MS13 is FUD, a US emotional knee jerk as opposed to the real problem) who are exactly what we WANT, not who we should be afraid of.
We're definitely screwed because there are no winners or losers when we are overwhelmed. The only things that makes it even worse is illegally punishing everyone and not enforcing the law. And that's by people making big statements about "the rule of law".
GC, my use of the term “fake news” was directed toward mg’s post telling another poster that their info was fake news. My entire point was that there were two posters making claims without any supporting info (one by simply throwing the phrase “fake news” out there).
Next time you intend to dis my views at least get them correct lol
@SD "Darrin: what people on unemployment?"
Um...anyone on unemployment...not really sure how my statement could be interpreted.
Sure...it's at an all time low (thanks to Trump) lets make it even better!
A week ago, I posted statistics that came directly from a white house news conference (it was obviously ignored)......
So far....12,000 kids have been taken in....OF WHICH
10,000 crossed the boarder WITHOUT their parents or were SENT by their parents
2,000 were removed from their parents after they broke the LAW.
So stop already with the emotional pull of kids being "ripped" from their parents.....the gross majority of them are not even with their parents to begin with!!!!!
In plain speak, justintime, please, is there a claim here that you need supporting info for. Can't tell amongst all the pronouns and strange abbreviations meant to tweak. Thank you.
GC, nice summary of my verbosity!!! +1.
I genuinely apologize if I spread fake news. And you're right, it solves nothing and helps no one by doing so.
At least I didn't publish a cobbled together magazine photo like "Time" did and try to pass it off as real news. That's the real problem when supposed trusted news sources are lying to us, knowingly and willingly.
By the way, that's not aimed at you, GC.,Again, I am sorry for misinformation that I shared.
JYM, just about everything posted here comes from third partys and is subjected to the equivalent of the game of telephone.
Context often changes between whatever initial source published info and when it hits here. IOW, don’t sweat it. At least you recognize when you may have been played; others here are so hard core that even if they discoverer proof on their own they’d ignore it because if identity politics. Must.be.right.all.the.time lol
So here’s my own tidbit for the day. Sources are in the link for anyone so inclined to trash this source:
I have not the time nor inclination to check for myself today, but what I do know is that the point made here - that many folks will twist “facts” to meet their personal agendas - is true way more often than not.
Did Obama detain 90000 children at the border?
Looks like yes he did. As the article makes clear it's even higher. So to be clear; Hundreds of thousands of migrant children whose parents sent them into the United States alone or with a human trafficker remained in Obama administration facilities for up to months at a time, before eventual release or repatriation.
In fact, if one adds up just the unaccompanied minors taken into custody between 2008 - 2016 (here and here), nearly 300,000 children were placed in federal housing under Obama.
And as many have pointed out, no one cared.
Thanks, justintime. You are completely correct and I take ownership for my mistakes. I would love to see others do the same. Especially those who present themselves as trusted sources, and not just people on a local forum. I can dream...
Are you really trying to say there's a moral equivalency here between Trump and Obama? Seems a false equivalency comparison to me.
Obama's kids were unaccompanied or in the hands of traffickers. Many of Trump's kids are with parents seeking asylum.
Obama's kids were held an average of a couple of weeks until a vetted parent, family member or sponsor could be found. Some of Trump's kids have been there for months, staring in May of 2018. Some of their parents have already been deported without their children.
People cared, Congress acted, nobody liked what was happening under Obama with these kids regardless of what Trump's campaign manager has told you.
GreyHawk -- do you have a source for the 300,000 children Obama placed in federal housing? I can't verify that one......
These are the links associated with the 300k number from the article:
The links are embedded as hyperlinks near the bottom of the article.
I think you’re taking this association a bit too seriously. These govt agencies existed prior to both of these presidents, so if you want to point fingers (which you do ;-)) you’d have to present the changes each administration made to policy. Some are known (those that hurt or help a partisan cause) but certainly most are not common knowledge.
@SD “Obama's kids were unaccompanied or in the hands of traffickers. Many of Trump's kids are with parents seeking asylum”
100% wrong....I have posted the factual information backing this twice already in this very thread!
Thanks JIT for the link. It looks like the writer had to go through a maze of various documents to get the information. If true, where was the moral outrage from the left.
OKids, TKids, just looking to save space.
"100% wrong...." Darrin: "As a matter of policy, the US government is separating families who seek asylum in the US by crossing the border illegally. Dozens of parents are being split from their children each day - the children
labeled “unaccompanied minors” and sent to government custody or foster care, the parents labeled criminals and sent to jail. Between October 1, 2017 and May 31, 2018, at least 2,700 children have been split from their parents. 1,995 of them were separated over the last six weeks of that window — April 18 to May 31 — indicating that at present, an average of 45 children are being taken from their parents each day." VOX news. https://www.vox.com/2018/6/11/17443198/children-immigrant-families-separated-parents
I call that: "Many of Trump's kids are with parents seeking asylum” The fact that unaccompanied minors equal about 10,000 during that time notwithstanding. Close to 20% of the total here. Plus, what do we know about the other unaccompanied minors incarceration? For Obama's kids, we know the average holding time was about 2 weeks until a family member, relative, or sponsor could be find to end the detainment.
Darrin, do you know the average holding time for Trump's unaccompanied minors? Indefinite like the asylum seekers?
JIT: it would be easier to respond if you dropped the oblique use of pronouns and abbreviations meant to tweak and just went with plain=speak names.
The 300,000 Obama kids represents unaccompanied minors, not asylum-seeking families who get their kids ripped away at the boarder, some of who are deported and may never see their kids again. Not sure what you want me to do with the second link, certainly not going to hunt n peck.
Skippy. I did not say illegal, I don't think. I may have said immoral, indecent, unnecessary, inefficient, and just downright mean, but illegal? It is a Sessions/Trump POLICY that works within the law. Sessions invented it, Trump approved its use. JIT: this POLICY did not require or use an EO to evoke. The EO used to end the POLICY was a CHOICE by Trump; there was no legal or administrative reason to issue an EO. Sessions could have just made a call to change the POLICY of mandatory incarceration with family separation for asylum seekers. Same way he started it..
In hindsight, probably Sessions is a true believer. He has ascribed biblical intentions to this POLICY more than once. Trump recognized the PR value of the detention photo op for the policy as a deterrent to border crossings which are seeing an uptick although still at historically low numbers. Especially after his build-a-wall tough talk mantra seemed to lower the crossings, thus the uptick. Thus he easily recognized where history was going with this, reversed course, and released the unnecessary EO as another PR phot opportunity.
Don't matter. DHHS has solved the issue of the 2,000 kids remaining in prison separated from their parents who are seeking asylum, few of whom have been returned since the famed EO. They will no longer issue numbers. The kids have been formally disappeared.
Everyone: there was plenty of push back on Obama over this. Congressional, journalistic, and public activists. The Obama response was to minimize the detainments time by finding family, relatives, or sponsors. What's in Trump's wallet beyond AC in the tents?
Yeah it’s absolutely new and Clinton and Obama didn’t do the same thing... Trump even used the same language
@SD "I call that: "Many of Trump's kids are with parents seeking asylum” The fact that unaccompanied minors equal about 10,000 during that time notwithstanding"
Lol...you logic is purely emotionally driven...my point was you harp on the fact that parents are being "ripped from their children" but in actuality....5 times the amount of kids parents CHOSE to separate themselves!!!!! This is obviously a non-concern for the parents.
You use the word "Many" as a trigger word...but fail to admit the reality that many MORE chose to separate THEMSELVES.
Here is an idea for you,,,,,don't break the law!
Sorry, but again...why is this our problem? America does not even have a pot to piss in financially, yet why is it okay for my tax money go towards funding people who are not even citizens???? Meanwhile when we want to make our boarders safer to protect all of America.....that is a problem? No, no no....how dare we spend money to help ourselves!!!! Really??
There is legal citizenship avenues these people can take.....but they chose to cross the boarder illegally.....this is something you try over and over to rationalize....I say B.S. Want to be a citizen...no problem....take the legal steps just like many have done....where has giving out free rides over and over gotten us?
Yes, I can see the similarities and I agree with everything said.
But if you call Obama’s and Clinton’s border policies and actions the same thing as Session’s/Trump’s zero tolerance mandatory separation of asylum-seeking refugee families followed by mandatory incarceration policy, you are very wrong. These policies were extremely different.
You do know even Trump reversed his decision and policy if splitting up the families, don’t you?
He calls that “working with the other side of the aisle.”
How many addled policies has he rolled out and then rescinded in short order since coming on office? How many ill-equipped humans has he hired, fired, in that revolving door of an administration? How many indicted so far? How many guilty so far? How many in jail as we speak?
How many lies do you need to be told before you turn your back on him?
Because while this was legal, you and he just have no moral rationale to cause this painful, traumatic, and unnecessary harm. It’s all just branding, marketing, a photo op to scare asylim-seekers as we extinguish our shining light upon the hill.
Clinton and Obama, especially Obama, made better choices here, IMO. But more important, Sessions, Trump, and you have made a poor choice of policy.
Why are we even talking about this at this point. Trump issued the order to stop it and you liberals keep bringing it up. Move on... How about your party stops colluding and sits down with Republicans to put together a real immigration package... Instead you have Maxine Waters inciting riots and people protesting for no reason at this point. You have idiots calling for the end of ICE… Really? How about those 3 kids in our own town that wouldn’t have been saved from horrible conditions had ICE not been after their father… So tired of the Left BS talking points. If you’re not going to discuss beneficial change then STFU. All you hear is Pelosi and Schumer cry every day yet they do nothing to help change anything. Pelosi and Waters have people living in tents in their jurisdictions and do nothing for them.
"Why are we even talking about this at this point. Trump issued the order to stop it." Over 2,000 kids are still separated, that's why. Sessions/Trump is looking for indefinite incarceration for families still, that's why.
Stop colluding? What do that even mean?
"Sits down with Republicans to put together a real immigration package"
Because you won't let us in the meetings; you won't let us even co-author reports. Remember, you won. Ball's in your court.
"Maxine Waters" I agree she has stepped over the line and is not "going high."
"people protesting for no reason at this point."
You're kidding right? Here's a good protest. Some Moms crowd-fund bond money for asylum-seeking Mom who is released on bond sans papers. So they can't fly her, bus her, they need to set up a car relay to get her from TX to NYC where her daughter is "detained in a family friendly environment no doubt better than her home country" except --- NO MOM in Harlem. I call that a good protest. And they will continue, please donate and you too can protest separation and support reunification. https://www.today.com/parents/how-help-immigrant-children-separated-families-t129923
" You have idiots calling for the end of ICE" Agreed
"If you’re not going to discuss beneficial change then STFU." No need for bad language, please. And no thank you, very much. Can you tell me the benefits of unnecessary mandatory family separation and incarceration. Can you discuss the benefits of this? Because I say, if you have to separate, find a family member, relative, sponsor to house the kids. But don't separate unless you have to. Just process, release with ankle bracelet if needed, and let the courts continue along the path of due process.
"All you hear is Pelosi and Schumer cry every day yet they do nothing to help change anything." You only hear this if you listen. I have yet to hear them myself. Don't like Pelosi, have called for her removal, but honestly --- I need to revisit that because I think you deserve her a little longer at this point.
Again, you won. The world is your oyster. What options have you left us beyond crying, screaming, or submitting? We would love to compromise but only if you listen. But you won't even allow us to sit at the table to discuss, much less take part in any policy or legislation discussion.
"Pelosi and Waters have people living in tents in their jurisdictions and do nothing for them" Do you have a source for this; I had not heard about the tents..
Stranger, don't waste your effort with those belligerent fools, they're not worth your time.
"But if you call Obama’s and Clinton’s border policies and actions the same thing as Session’s/Trump’s zero tolerance mandatory separation of asylum-seeking refugee families followed by mandatory incarceration policy, you are very wrong. These policies were extremely different. "
the only thing that changed is that asylum petitions must occur prior to an illegal border crossing. if you come in illegally you get separated as the adults in question are being held on criminal charges. did you see Obama's state of the union address linked above where he said the exact same thing? and yes - if you seek asylum they are detained until they can perform background checks etc on folks who have no ID whatsoever and it needs to be determined if their story pans out during this time families are not separated. we simply cannot put the entirety of the world on our payroll. below is a great video on why we cannot allow open borders.
hey the socialist intellectual elite has made a return. hows things Alpha 1 Beta? ready to start calling folks names or want to have a discussion?
If you think past administrations weren’t doing the same thing with kids then you’re living in a bubble. It’s a talking point now because the Left has to move from one thing to the next to gain some kind of traction going into the elections. They keep falling flat on their faces. Citizens have their kids taken all the time or are harassed over stupid things and are threatened with removal if they don’t comply with these liberal run organizations like DYFS. It’s not like these illegal children aren’t being cared for. And I call BS on the asylum crap. Most of these people know that they can come here and work under the table and get free healthcare and schooling for their children. We all get stuck with that bill. If they were really looking for asylum they would have stopped at one of the US consolates or the embassy in Mexico and applied for it. They were trying to sneak in, got caught, and tried to use asylum as a get out of jail free card. They put their children in these positions. Its no different than a hungry family robbing a store for food and getting arrested. The kids get taken from the parents. They’re actually better off being taken because the kids will be fed and cared for. I wonder what these illegal kids were even eating or where they were sleeping walking a thousand miles through central America and Mexico. What were they wiping their butts with…. They were probably filthy when they got here.
We deserve Pelosi longer? Even several of her own party members said they wouldn’t vote for her to be Speaker if things go blue. Your party is run by dementia patients. Time for some new blood. And if that new blood is socialist democrats, good luck ever being in control again.
SD/Mr Google, you know how to find articles. They’re out there and there’s video of people living in tents in California. The state is a mess…. That’s what liberal politics creates.
Deep breaths A1B. The “fools” on both sides of our ridiculous dichotomy, belligerent or not, aren’t going anywhere.
Doctors cancel conference in san Fransisco over fears of crime, homelessness and drug use in Pelosi's district. Overall tourism is down because of this.
SD....what is happening at the border is no secret ....yet people KEEP COMING!!!! certainly leads me to believe what they are given is much better then what they have...either way...it's ILLEGAL!!!! There is simply no argument here.
@SD "How many lies do you need to be told before you turn your back on him?" ALL THIS AND HE IS STILL BETTER THEN HILARY!!!!!!
@SD "You and he just have no moral rationale to cause this painful, traumatic, and unnecessary harm."
Oh keep the trigger words and emotion coming...pile it on deep dude.....you just about got me to care.....NOT.....IT"S ILLEGAL!!!!!
a1b....your continual name calling has become socially amusing....I love seeing liberal's minds explode when they cannot get their way!
A1Beta --- I know it seems hard when it's 10:1 odds, there's a whole lot of faulty logic, off-topic tangents, obviously fake facts, and complicated 30K foot generalizations that Caption Obvious laughs at, on top of what often feels like an unlevel playing field in moderation. I do it to learn and playing with the info via writing helps me understand. IOW, I do it for myself.
I would agree with you but now see JIT and others saying "e-verify" so once in a purple moon, we make progress. Likewise, for all you attempting to control yourf knee jerk reaction over that, I too have learned that 10 round clip versus 15 round clip, who cares, either will do. Or --- darned if those good guys with guns do seem to predominately hit the mark. Still seems like something to do away as in "wouldn't it be better if we didn't need to be well-heeled," but as hard as I look they seem to do little harm or at least -- seldom.
Live and learn.
"Tourism is San Francisco’s biggest industry, and the SFTA estimates the city had 25.5 million visitors in 2017. That’s an increase of 2.6 million people since 2013. In 2017 alone, visitors to San Francisco spent $9.1 billion with conventions accounting for an additional $687.4 million in direct spending."
I think this passage from the article you linked to says that overall tourism is *up* by 10% from 2013 to 2017...
Skippy: did you really just invite A1Beta to call you names by calling them a name? What was that?
Skippy, can I ask you a serious question: What do you do all day? Are you retired or out of work on disability or something? I am genuinely curious in a not even to be mean way.
Thank you btw for calling me a socialist, but I do want to note I'm a democratic socialist. Got a card around here somewhere...
But, personally, I'd like to keep the insults slinging. When I want a real discussion, I'll go on twitter. Some great discussions there, not always like like minded people. Some real a holes too though.
JIT: Those deep breathes made me feel like a dragon in this heat. Hear me rawr!
I won't say Stranger is always right but I wouldn't know - honestly, sometimes I see their posts and my eyes just gloss over, but what I read generally seems to be on point to those of us with functional cerebral cortexes. Others here have what I like to deem "FoxRot". Unfortunately, it's not usually terminal.
But i'm gonna disagree with you here, arguing here is just worthless. These aren't the "good germans". We'd be better off taking our time and trying to find real solutions. Come join the resistance - you know where to find us.
Darrin, since you like to so much, here's a special shout out for you - only because you asked! You seem really concerned with illegal immigration, which is a problem sure, but aren't there bigger problems to deal with, like healthcare, or corporate tax loopholes, or even our crumbling infrastructure?
It makes me thing you must be on of the uneducated unskilled welfare leeches that's soaking up unemployment because you was replaced by an illegal who barely speaks English. And if you're job can be replaced by an illegal, well, you have no one to blame except you and your boss.
You make some valid points here and there, but for someone so concerned with law and order, aren't there some bigger problems - like you know, seeing if Russia meddled with our elections - that should be higher up your priority list?
LOL Nice try SD....A1B very obviously doesn't need any invitation, certainly doesn't need help from you...(your boarderline how it is :->) or reason to call names...he has been lashing out like a child without a lollipop since the start of this thread.
But...it's your call....feel free to drop to his level and try to relate...maybe you will loose the 4 people on this forum who still occasionally read the shorter things you post.
I was responding to being called a belligerent fool.
I’m a consultant - sit in front of a machine all day I’m don’t turn pizza into code or anything cool like that - I only called you embraced the moniker and to highlight the point of view from which you spew vitriol.
A1B, I appreciate the "normal talk"
@A1B "but aren't there bigger problems to deal with"
Just because there are bigger problems to deal with, doesn't mean we should and could turn a blind eye to a growing problem.
So to answer your questions, well more assumptions then anything.....in particular "It makes me thing you must be on of the uneducated unskilled welfare leeches that's soaking up unemployment because you was replaced by an illegal who barely speaks English"
Lets get one thing straight, you don't know me, or any one else on this forum from anyone....and your personal judgement skills are quite off! I am a engineer with 2 associates, a bachelors, and a masters....certainly not "uneducated" by any means, and certainly not unemployed....this may be a concept that is hard for a computer programmer to compute ;-)
Russia? Nothing has been proven! And even so, Russia hates Trump so what would have they really done?....but illegal immigration (what we are actually talking about) certainly has.....If you were to drop all the problems and just deal with one thing you thought was the "biggest" problem, we, as a country, would collectively get nothing accomplished.
I see you know how to google. I'm the one user on here who's not really anonymous to anyone who can work a bit of google.
Well, it seems we have something in common. Self employed?
I ask because you seem to post a lot during the day, disappear for a while around 5 or so and sometimes pop up up sometimes later. I figured you had to either not work, or more likely have a job that allows you lots of flexible time at a computer. Based on your views, I'd guess you're self employed - business owners and self employed folks seem to often have very strong beliefs about the tax burden, and that would allow you plenty of time to post.
Anyway, I was just trying to think of some of these issues from your point of view, but I can't see why you and some others focus so much energy on illegals as both the problem and the solution, besides they're you know, illegal, while not getting angry about corporate tax cheats, insane tax credits and businesses that abuse them, corrupt politicians, or even illegal drugs?
I just can't understand why, short of racism, this is such a high priority for some of you. Immigration wasn't even an issue in the 2012 election or since then until Trump made it an issue. Why aren't you this angry at the business owners who hire these illegals?
So Skippy, or anyone else, would you enlighten us to why, besides "law and order" that immigration is such a priority for you when we have so many issues? Maybe you could give a top 10 priority list of issue for you?
Here's my top 10 in no particular order:
Solving healthcare to everyone is covered at a reasonable cost, fix out of out of network billing and insane billing. Part of me wants single payer with no alternatives, part of me to open to the government competing with private corporations.
Closing corporate tax loopholes
Punishing Russian for the election meddling and prevent it from happening again
Net Neutrality - I'm open to ways other than Title II
Infrastructure upgrades and not the glamourous ones like new bridges.
Securing the communication and electrical infrastructure from cyber attacks
Redistribute certain federal and state authority - make driver license and voter registration federal
Criminal justice reform - ease penalties for some small time crimes, send drug crimes to rehab and counseling rather than jail (at least first time), end private prisons, rebuild our sentencing rules to make sentencing more logical and take the victim(s) into consideration more. Revise civil forfeiture and add automatic modifiers to crimes committed in special circumstances (For examples, Cops who commit crimes on duty should face higher penalties if convicted and traffic violations while drunk or high should severely increase the penalties)
Revise the tax system to allow people to submit taxes online on IRS.gov directly without third party software, simplify the tax code for the average americans, and provide all the tools needed online for free, potentially even use a confirmation system rather than have us submit everything, and rebuild from the ground up the rules around corporate tax breaks to prevent tax breaks until
Sensible gun control that allows for the temporary and permanent ban or holding weapons for individuals with criminal records, a federal registration system (I've spelled out how this could work safety in this forum before), funding for gun violence research, ban on large capacity magazines, bump stocks and a definitive ban on assault rifles based on ability not secondary features such as pistol grips.
Early childhood education in a way that we can pay the teachers well, allow parents to work and contribute to society and give kids a safe and education early start.
A voucher system for private schools as long as they can meet certain requirements
Re-enter the Paris Climate agreement
Reform student loans
Better access to higher education, potentially free community college.
Push for more green energy
Simplify immigration process so more people apply rather than go straight to trying to enter illegally
And my big project, as president, would be a new deal type work and learn program where every citizen would be guaranteed a minimum of 2 years federal employment after high school of college, if they wanted it, so they can build real life skills and get at minimum a certificate degree. This would be paid internships basically that would guarantee jobs in a field of your choice that's offered, sometimes it would be a private job paid by the government in partnership with a corporation, other times it would be a government job. To keep said job, you would have to have a reasonable minimum grade, continue your studies, perform at least recently at the job. Education and work would total a 40 hour week + homework, year round and I think large portions, if not the entirety of this could be funded by direct cost savings.
Ideally, this could allow a larger permanent workforce as well, keeping those who wish to stay in the jobs but meet reasonable performance standards.
This could allow us to build skilled workers, especially in trades, offer education and employment to the disabled who otherwise would be welfare leeches, while providing reasonable affordable labor, reduce unemployment and push for higher quality American jobs through education and higher wages.
Immigration is a priority for this country because of the substantial cost of uncontrolled immigration. As I’ve posted above it costs us billions a year in infrastructure costs alone. It’s a priority for me because I feel we would be better served to focus on our citizens and vets who are impoverished.
H1Bs abuse effects me more directly - fortunately the type of work I do is more management consulting than IT at this point. I am sure this is something you are experiencing as someone who is in the DevOps stack.
As far as your list :
I’ll agree with a priority being the protection of OT critical infrastructure. I would expand that to telecommunications. Infrastructure.
The rest of it not so much - you make Bernie look conservative lol
I work for the man (so to say) as well as have my own business. my 7-4 job is on computers most of the time so I always have internet access, so trying to figure out my "posting schedule" wont really get you too far.
@ alpha1beta "but I can't see why you and some others focus so much energy on illegals as both the problem and the solution, besides they're you know, illegal, while not getting angry about corporate tax cheats, insane tax credits and businesses that abuse them, corrupt politicians, or even illegal drugs?"
You do realize this thread is about Korea and immigration right? First we talked about Korea...which we all were part of...then we talked about immigration...... that's how a public forum works.... If you follow other threads about some of your other listed concerns I guarantee you will find me, as well as other concerned posters right there as well, but for the record...we do not hijack threads on specific topic just because we "personally" think something else is more important.
Diving further..."Immigration wasn't even an issue in the 2012 election or since then until Trump made it an issue."
It has always been a issue...just kept behind closed doors. It's only this big of a issue because Trump is involved, and certain people will find anything they can to blame on Trump, even if it is something that has been going on for years. Trump could literally solve every item on your list, and I guarantee you would still bad mouth him.
"Why aren't you this angry at the business owners who hire these illegals?"
Who said I wasn't? and who's angry? I am just voicing my opinion.
1 When a world traveler goes through a port of entry, puts two feet on American soil, claims "I'm a refugee seeking asylum," what law exactly is being broken?
2. "Russia? Nothing has been proven!" Really?
2A. Apparently, the Senate, you know, conservatives, think there's smoke https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-cyber/senate-panel-backs-intelligence-agencies-on-russia-trump-conclusions-idUSKBN1JT2YB
2B. 13 Russians have been indicted for aiding Trump win the election. No collusion yet, but getting hotter, 3 Russian companies indicted too: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/16/us/politics/russians-indicted-mueller-election-interference.html
2C. 4 convictions, a few in jail already, a few more indictments, here's your running tab of "hey, nothing's happening here..." : https://medium.com/@KeithDB/a-running-tab-of-mueller-investigation-convictions-indictments-f518b9a72827
And that's RussianGate only. There's the State Level and Stormy Daniels, Michael Cohen, either of which alone or combined could conflate into RussiaGate. I don't even count all the other cases like the Trump Foundation honeypot scandal, ZTE pay-for-play scandal and so on and so on. At 1.5 years in, I would say this is probably the most corrupt administration ever as proven by it'son the conviction and indictment rate alone.
That's on top of the worst Presidential hiring records: dozens of major staffers -- gone. Four communications directors hasta la vista. One very visible, and because of Russia, FBI director. Lost his press secretary. Had to get a new chief of staff. And, of course, his stalwart secretary of state. Scaramangler gone in two weeks, that's got to be a record. Prewitt still there, another record.
Over 42% of top White House positions turned over since Trump took office creating what the highest turnover rate of any US Presidency. https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/d35ggv/everyone-trump-has-fired-or-has-quit-the-white-house
So I beg to differ.
IMO the Russian investigation has borne much fruit so far, has disrupted this dishonest, duplicitous, demeaning little man's goal to divide the US into furious factions of faith pitting rich against poor, black against white, liberal against conservative, and we have yet to see Mueller's hand.
And I delight in hearing "end the witch-hunt, there's no collusion," coming from the Benghazi witch hunt king Trey Gowdy given 7 Benghazi investigations needed for that conclusion. Benghazi cost over $7M and took over 2 years to complete. We are now at $17M and 1.5 years in RussiaGate. However, these numbers are apples and oranges: Benghazi costs are Congressional only, the RussiaGate costs are Mueller’s FBI alone. Our top witch hunt hunter, Trey Gowdy, led the Benghazi investigation and FBI cost estimates $20M to $30M. Gowdy knows this, but does Trump’s bidding to fill your minds with innuendo and doubt. http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2016/07/05/Investigating-Clinton-How-Many-Millions-Were-Spent-Email-Benghazi-Probes
No collusion. Of course not. Mueller has not released his first report yet. And remember, we get six more tries at the apple if we deserve Benghazi parity.
Well we require visas from certain countries - if they’re here legally nothing. If they jump a fence we already discussed that law
Again, Skippy, thank you. You really know how to flatter a guy.
I actually haven't encountered issues with H1Bs or other immigrants, we've had a few non-natives apply but non made it through an interview - not that they weren't skilled, but not a large variety of skills needed for a small team. I don't know if I know any of their situations - naturalized citizens, or some sort of work visas, but the accents and resumes showed that they weren't natives.
But again, I argue, aren't there better things to fight if your concern is purely cost? How about the estimated $1 trillion dollars companies hide overseas?
A few places I'll disagree with Bernie. We don't need legalized pot, however, I think we should remove it from schedule I and allow more research and medical usage - but not through dispensaries, through regularly pharmacies.
I don't think abortion should be illegal, but we have a civil duty as one of our guiding principles is the right to life, to make it as rare as possible. Sometimes, albeit rarely, it's medically necessary, or in the case of incest or rape. I believe your right to choose means you have to right choose what you do, not how you handle the consequences.
There's probably ways to make it safe, affordable and extremely rare, starting with education; contraception covered by healthcare (and if the government runs it, no one has to let their religious beliefs get in the way because 1, everyone pays into the system and 2, corporations don't have any control; and maybe there's ways - like needing two doctors to say it's necessary. But ultimately, I'd rather see it legal than to see people take it into their own hands or go to Mexico.
But being pro-life means taking care of the sick and being humane to all people, not just those lucky enough to be born in this great experiment of democracy.
I am pro-death penalty, because that is a choice you have made to do something so bad, you have thrown your right to life away.
We all came from immigrants at once point - but when we came through ellis island, it took approximately 3 to 5 hours (according to multiple sources) - not years of paperwork and then 7 years once you become a citizen.
Darrin: This thread was amending to cover Immigration, and many many others have touched on much more - just search for "Benghazi". I put my list out there to show we have bigger problems affecting more of us directly and indirectly though the waste of our tax dollars than immigration, and certainly can be more humane to those people than we are.
You are right though, immigration is always an issue, it's just not a headliner until something bad happens.
I also don't think I've called you out directly, except for the insult, which you asked for. I believe we've agreed occasionally and I haven't seen you take the hardline, clearly wrong approach that others do.
Well you have to admit that devops labor is cheaper overseas and in regards to safe harbor money Trump is doing a lot to get companies to bring that back with incentives.
I’m also for decriminalization if drugs and pro choice so I have no argument there - the war on drugs is a money pit and we have no way to sustainably support unwanted children. I am not a fan of being forced to pay for it without recourse but it’s cheaper than paying for entitlement programs.
I think we agree on lawful immigration and we definitely need to get a better process on how that works - but it’s unfair to legal immigrants to accept others that jumped the line.
SD: 1. I see no questions from you. 2. Up until now I have been talking to alpha1beta, sorry if you feel left out...so here is one for you:
@SD "When a world traveler goes through a port of entry" That's just the problem....we are not talking about legal entry here, I specifically have stated multiple times ILLEGAL.....some immigrants are trying to sneak around the ports of entry...Further research on my part has discovered the illegal entries have now filled up the capacity of the boarder and they are being forced to turn people away....feel free to do your own research.
I will restate what I said in the message above "we do not hijack threads on specific topic just because we "personally" think something else is more important."
Do you guys have any idea the amount of people coming to the boarder? Do you honestly expect that our already failing infrastructure (as alpha1beta pointed out) can handle every single person coming to the boarder claiming to be looking for a asylum? Do you guys have any idea the cost burden this puts on the U.S.? Not saying turn everyone away, but honestly...where do we draw the line here? As I stated before...we do not even have a pot to piss in, yet we continually help people in need...morally correct, I get it....but we are digging our hole deeper and deeper...when do we worry about ourselves?
"You are right though, immigration is always an issue, it's just not a headliner until something bad happens."
And there you have it. What bad has happened? What is the immigration crisis we are facing today? Or is it just about a man, his wall, and the need to tear down anything Obama? I mean...…...
- Illegal immigrant crisis in massive numbers flooding in from all directions. Hmm, not according to the numbers which show lowest rate trend in decades.
- MS-13 killing us by the thousands? hundreds? "The gang, responsible for dozens of gruesome deaths throughout the U.S." (FOX news) And it's not hard to see these guys coming; they wear billboard announcements.
- Huge increase in drugs --- oh yeah, war on drugs crisis. That's a good one and novel too. But not true. Our opioid crisis does not emanate from South of the Border. It's closer to home than that. No matter the pain, I can't even beg for a Percodan, might as well go to the street.
- Wave of unaccompanied minors --- uh oh, tiny MS-13ers. Babes with tats. Scary monsters indeed.
- Undocumented worker tsunami --- full employment, remember. So stealing our jobs or crisis what crisis? Locking em up or e-verify --- you be the judge.
- the law. OK, good one. But how about asylum seekers treated as criminals. Is their arrival or our reception the crisis on that one
Got any more?
2,000 kids stripped of parents still incarcerated. DHHS has figured out how to fix the problem. They stopped reporting numbers for these kids.
NINE DAYS WITHOUT AN UPDATE ON THE KIDS.
It's America celebrating it's day of liberty so who needs a downer like kid hostages that can only be freed if we build a wall.
Is there a memo that goes out to tell you what to be irate about next?
You’re blaming Trump for Clinton's 1994 law - The only difference between the Trump admin and the Clinton/Bush/Obama admins on this is that Trump has a "zero tolerance" policy towards enforcement.
Bill Clinton's 1996 campaign platform:
“We cannot tolerate illegal immigration and we must stop it. For years before Bill Clinton became President, Washington talked tough but failed to act. In 1992, our borders might as well not have existed. The border was under-patrolled, and what patrols there were, were under-equipped. Drugs flowed freely. Illegal immigration was rampant. Criminal immigrants, deported after committing crimes in America, returned the very next day to commit crimes again. President Clinton is making our border a place where the law is respected and drugs and illegal immigrants are turned away.”
Kid hostages? Give it a rest SD the virtue signaling is transparent - the “asylum seekers are being treated as criminals because they need to petition for it BEFORE they reach US soil - like at OneNote our 19 conveniently located embassies in Mexico
SD,where were you with all this going on when Obama was in charge??? where was the MSM on this? up his rear end is where they were. . The MSM is the propaganda arm of the Democratic party, its that simple. All you do is repeat the MSM talking points to try and convince the low information voter to pull the lever for the party you represent.
We discuss that above; I refer you to that.
But I feel I must remind you, lest you forget:
1 you won the House.
2 you won the Senate
3 you stole the Presidency with Putin's help
The world is your oyster, drain the swamp, start with Flynn, Manafort, Prewitt, Tillinger, Spicer, Scaramangler, and so on and so on :>)
So blame Obama. Blame Hillary. You can fix this. I know you can. It's easy.
I mean North Korea is like denuclearized, totally. And immigration: we will build a wall and Mexico will pay for it. I know walls. They're easy. I'm a builder.
Just say MAGA three times, click your heels, and you will be in Mayberry, 1955.
The Pew Research Center found that MSM coverage of Trump was negative 62% of the time, while he received favorable coverage only 5% of the time. Compare that to Obama’s first year in office, when MSM coverage was 42% positive to only 20% negative.
Skippy - yep, it's twitter.com/realdonaldtrump.
As for IT talent in any area, most places would rather they come here than farm is overseas these days. There's an issue of trust of corporate secrets and espionage as well as some places have front men doing interviews and outsource the coding.
Of course the trump news coverage was negative, I mean he literally jokes about his junk and killing someone and not losing votes, was accused by 16? 17? 18? - SD what's the current count - women of various degrees of sexual assault, plus he ran a phony university. And I could go on and on and on. But we all know even all that negative attention was good attention. I took to calling him teflon Don because nothing stuck with "his base"
Meanwhile, Sean Hannity was ready to overthrow the government when Obama wore a tan suit and another time when gave a salute while holding his latte.
I can't even think of one negative thing I heard about Obama when he first ran other than "Who?"
Comparing purely negative and position coverage, out of context is pointless. It's like comparing Mr Rogers with Cops - of course one is going to be very negative.
In re coding you’re the SME in that area - I know were doing a lot of static and dynamic code reviews and installing WAFs to shore up bad apps created in parts of the world where labor is cheap l, Vietnam & India etc.
I can tell you the negativity certainly didn’t hurt his poll results. Think about your statement that Obama came from nowhere and his political experience consisted of a partial term as a senator and an endorsement by Oprah but he won the presidency and you tell me who controls the “news-speak”. As I am sure JIT will tell you - they’re two sides of the same coin.
Obama did Nothing to help American Citizens. He was polite. So what?!!!
And did you happen to see Obama panic and become a blithering idiot when his teleprompter failed?!
He was a Puppet.
Bill Clinton was 10 x worse than Trump.
(And Hillary did not Divorce this Scum- after he Humiliated her with Monica - Oh- I guess That was OK to you?!)
Regarding his Job-Trump is actually Doing his job (Not merely tapdancing to the media.) Trump is working to Accomplish the goals he outlined during his campaign, that got him Elected!!!
What a Refreshing Change!
LOL you are funny older mom. You call yourself a Christian woman according to another thread but that is false. In the Bible it says that we must accept foreigners and help them the opposite of what your beliefs is. If Jesus Joseph and Mary were to enter today the United States they would be deported. Which is not the right thing to do cording to the Bible as we must help foreigners. Read your Bible and become a real Christian instead of hypocrite. Yes Hillary did not divorce Bill the same like mrs. Trump not divorcing her terrible husband who treats her like crap even in the public eye something to think about. I find it funny you call yourself a Christian woman in another thread but really you're just a hypocrite and you're not following what God's law is really about. Time to open up the Bible and actually read it educate yourself the real way to be a Christian
Some literature for your older mom so you learn about how to be a real Christian and that stuff that you make up in your head
Facts are from FOX, CNN and the rest of the manipulative based media?
All quite biased, playing on people's emotions for ratings sake.
Unfortunately, we can't rely on so called journalists anymore, but we can rely on our own judgement. Not sure where that gets us...
Since were bringing up Christianity
He measured it on the four sides; it had a wall all around, the length five hundred and the width five hundred, to divide between the holy and the profane.
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's
Please tell me more about what the Bible says on this issue
Your trigger words are too much SD, and your attempt at trying to justify gang members, unaccompanied minors, drugs, along with a pleathora of other ILLEGAL things is even funnier.....you are running out of straws to grasp as buddy!
Just remember...your spending all this time trying to justify something illegal!!!!
There is literally NO argument here!
Question for you liberals...how do you defend your apparent current stand on abolishing ICE? Are you guys shooting for open boarders? The way I see it right here on our home turf, if it wasn't for ICE 3 minors could have been seriously injured.
Proud Liberal you're insane... This country can't sustain taking every border jumper into this country.
SCOTUS says foreign nationals have no due process rights here.
Read. The article was written by
Matt O'Brien is the former chief of the national security division within the fraud detection and national security directorate at the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (CIS). He has also served as U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement’s assistant chief counsel in the New York District. He is currently director of research at the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR).
And the Supreme Court has been remarkably consistent on this point over the years:
It is not within the province of the courts to order the admission of foreigners who have no formal, legal connection to the United States. "As to such persons, the decisions of executive or administrative officers, acting within powers expressly conferred by Congress, are due process of law." (Murray's Lessee v. Hoboken Land and Improvement Co.; Hilton v. Merritt)
"It is an accepted maxim of international law that every sovereign nation has the power, as inherent in sovereignty and essential to self-preservation, to forbid the entrance of foreigners within its dominions or to admit them only in such cases and upon such conditions as it may see fit to prescribe." (Ekiu v. United States)
The United States need only provide an aliens with a judicial trial when charging them with a crime and seeking a punitive sentence. (Wong Wing v. United States)
"Whatever the rule may be concerning deportation of persons who have gained entry into the United States, it is not within the province of any court, unless expressly authorized by law, to review the determination of the political branch of the Government to exclude a given alien." (Knauff v. Shaughnessy)
Unadmitted, nonresident aliens have no right of entry to the United States as nonimmigrants, or otherwise. (Kleindienst v. Mandel)
Gee, you left of the sentence directly in front of what you published: "Illegal aliens are entitled to considerably less immigration due process than their advocates would have us believe." You do see the words "considerably less" there, didn't you, when you opted to leave off the lead sentence?
Fake news comes in many forms, including spin.
Yes, they have rights. Yes, they are diminished in comparison to a citizen. And when they plant 2 feet in American soil, yell I'm seeking asylum, they are treated as refugees under our acceptance of the 1967 accords.
At that point folks are vetted to see if their request has merit; if not they are immediately deported. If so, our current policy of processing that request takes overs.
Now, you can, within our laws, enact many POLICIES for processing of asylum seekers, including Trump/Session's draconian zero tolerance mandatory family separation and incarceration which he morphed via his unnecessary, but great for photo op, EO, to zero tolerance indefinite family incarceration plan. That's a political choice that Sessions and Trump made.
If you agree with this policy, you are that type of person. If you don't, and you agree with the previous policies of either Bush, Regan, Clinton, Obama, you are another type of person. Like the Trump/Session zero tolerance, mandatory indefinite incarceration policy, it's a choice.
Day 10 and, as far as we know, 2,000 kids still detained after being ripped away from parents seeking asylum. We have no new news from out government of the status of these kids. Well, to fake news buffs, I guess no news is good news. Blinders makes all well. Mushroom people get left in the dark feeding on …… nuff said.
older mom: You do know our groper-in-chief married a woman raised in a Communist Party member family, raised as a Communist, and willing to put up with a guy publicly outed for being sexually spanked by Stormy Daniels and then putting up $130K for hush money, don't you? Just saying what a great roll model, and when grandson spouts out: "I like to grab em by the pussy," just smile and say "no locker room talk at the table, Timmy." :>)
a1beta: what a strange question, I think you need someone else for tracking sexual assault cases. I am russian to putin together data in another direction. And calling our President Teflon Don is just plain wrong. That was Ron, but perfected by Bill, the one President who not only slipped the noose every time, but usually struck back with a viper's venom. Have a good life in obscurity, Ken Starr. Hey, Newt, did they let you out from under the punishment rock yet? No, he's Teflon Con, the great huckster who can look people straight in the eye, tell them he is going to rip them off, and get them to buy even more.
It's been a good run, but if tomorrow's Friday, well that's Mueller Time. In last week's installment, Bob delays Flynn's sentencing since Flynn still has more goods to give. Sleep well Don.... Could this week be Cohen's revenge?
Teflon Con! That's great! You're a treasure, SD!
Mueller's adding more prosecutors!
Taking all bets!
I got $20 on Trump for Treason in the (Golden) Tower.
"I am strictly interested what the Bible has to say"
Glad to hear you're anti-abortion (you know, "thall shalt not kill" and all that...)
Or are you "strictly interested" in what SCOTUS has to say on that one?
And I will add trumpy dumpy just paid a company in China they make his 2020 American flags for his campaign. What happened to having jobs in America. Seriously and why is it okay for him to have immigrants do his labor but turns around and says the opposite for the country. We say hypocrite. Trump supporters aren't getting the whole picture
here is a list of challenges congress is not willing to address:
Much of the underlying law is flawed, such as the William Wilberforce Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act of 2008.
interpretation of the Constitution, such as birthright citizenship in the 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. The first sentence reads: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" — needs to be interpreted by SCOTUS.
The legal community and judiciary have expanded Wilberforce to the point of absurdity by devices such as the Flores consent (unfortunately affirmed by SCOTUS). - this is just one part of why illegal alien family separations occur. (Reno v. Flores 507 U.S. 292 (more) 113 S. Ct. 1439, 123 L. Ed. 2d 1, 1993 U.S. LEXIS 2399, 61 U.S.L.W. 4237, 93 Cal. Daily Op. Service 2028, 93 Daily Journal DAR 3628, 7 Fla. L. Weekly Fed. S 73) which turned into Flores v. Loretta Lynch. The 9th circuit sided with the plaintiff and held that the decree required the government to remove both accompanied and unaccompanied minors from detention facilities within a short period, which is now considered 72 hours.
Any Federal judge of thousands can legislate from the bench un-constitutionally acting in place of both legislature and executive. (looking at you Judge Watson of Honolulu). The 9th circuit judiciary insists absurdly that any person reaching US soil must have extensive due process - administrative judges, courts, and hearings; etc.
costing us millions of taxpayer dollars. Hence why we have Sessions constructing the asylum policy in this manner..
The number of Latinos living in America legally and illegally, has reach a huge critical mass (45m to 60m) such that most politicians are afraid to broach the subject.
The entirety of the #resistance to include the Courts, legislature, media, academia, and the democrat and portions of the GOP establishment are willing to deform the law and approach violence as a way to enforce open borders.
why you may ask?
Half of the country has adopted open borders as their admitted strategy to absorb more and more "undocumented Democrats" ( https://www.salon.com/2013/04/03/jay_leno_call_them_undocumented_democrats/). Their purpose is to render the USA into the same one-party status as has been done already in California and for almost all major cities.
and SD is right the RINOS in office are the problem.. we have the control.
They make decisions not where they stand on the issues, but where they stand in the polls. we have republican representatives and congress people who are more comfortable spending Sunday brunch sipping mimosas with George Stephanopoulos than working through this stuff.
the RINOS in office are the real undocumented Democrats.
"And I will add trumpy dumpy just paid a company in China they make his 2020 American flags for his campaign. "
nothing burger - borderline fake news
"It is unclear if the flags were ordered by an individual business or by the official Trump campaign, "
"It is unclear whether the organization is the one to have ordered the flags revealed to NPR and, if it did, whether it planned to give the flags away at rallies and events rather than sell them."
"Seriously and why is it okay for him to have immigrants do his labor but turns around and says the opposite for the country. We say hypocrite. Trump supporters aren't getting the whole picture"
you do understand the difference between hiring an illegal alien in the US and contracting a Chinese company to produce a product made by CHINESE PEOPLE IN CHINA?
both sides used the vendor during the election
"also made flags for Trump and Hillary Clinton during 2016. According to NPR"
is this a slow news day or what?
I cohen-to-go $20 for Jared's 666 contract with the devil. I mean he bet his frickin soul on a building...stormy weather on that one.
no wait, it's $20 on Don Jrs, or DJ's (think twice about that name Darrin :>), meeting to solve the word's adoption crisis-what-crisis right after he fixes world hunger. Yeah, sure, that's what everyone calls KGB operatives for. Right after they call Ghostbusters...……
no wait, it's $20 on I-don't-really-care-do-u Melania turns out to be a communist still.
no wait, its $20 on Ivanka's Chinese shoe deal or the ZTE/Trump Tower deal
Shoot --- can we go for a trifecta?
One thing is certain: zero tolerance mandatory family separation and incarceration IS NOT Trump's Katrina. Puerto Rico takes that honor and we are now well over that line.
2,000 kids still held as of last report from DHHS who does not report bad things anymore. Mission accomplished.
Jeff if you must know I do not believe in abortion I don't support it and I don't like it so there you go
Well, a broken clock is right twice a day at least ;)
In all seriousness, glad to hear it.
Prewitt resigns: White House announces yuge used mattress and hand, yeah right, hand lotion sale. Plus biometric security, cone of silence, and office furniture too. Best prices ever.
In related news, 22 security guards are looking for work.
MoistureGate is over!
Cohen hires long-time Clinton lawyer. Wonder what the lock-her-up legal defense team will suggest for Cohen to do?
Illegals captured by ICE were also responsible for more than 5,000 sexual assault offenses, 2,000 kidnapping offenses, 1,800 homicide offenses and 76,000 dangerous drug offenses
ICE’s Homeland Security Investigations unit made 4,818 gang arrests in 2017.
“Abolishing ICE would mean that countless illegal aliens who pose a threat to public safety would be allowed to roam free — killing, injuring, and threatening Americans — instead of being removed from the country,”
The release also highlights the role of ICE in seizing illegal drugs, noting the agency seized 980,000 pounds of narcotics in 2017, with 2,370 pounds of fentanyl and 6,967 pounds of heroin seized.
In re Pruitt - he did a lot of good work but exposed himself (and the administration) with wasteful spending and stuff that is unethical - Trump responded to it and fired him.
1st-class air travel
expanded, 24-hour security detail
a sweetheart rent deal on a DC condo owned by a lobbyist with business before the EPA and a $40,000 private phone booth in his office.
I think he has 13 separate congressional and oversight inquiries - he needed to go.
Cohen is not stupid, you have to be really impressed that HRC is not wearing a jump suit in some penitentiary some where. Hiring her lawyer was a smart move. Now if he only had the connections to the injustice department she had.
Skippy, It has become apparent they do not want talking points they cannot defend....they have already ignored my ICE question:
"Question for you liberals...how do you defend your apparent current stand on abolishing ICE? Are you guys shooting for open boarders? The way I see it right here on our home turf, if it wasn't for ICE 3 minors could have been seriously injured."
You bring valid points to the table...but since there was nothing but crickets when I asked, I am assuming you will get the same treatment.
Yeah, like HRC’s and WJC’s lawyer doesn’t have payback time in mind.
Skippy, you know you can’t trust this unsubstantiated, un-sourced purveyor of continual lies wothout first vetting the numbers. Not without fact checkers, sorry.
I question people's sanity who want ICE abolished. Are we trying to welcome more crime? Those 3 children on Main St could have ended up seriously hurt or worse. You think this isn't happening in other parts of the country? If you don't think so then you're kidding yourselves...
Darrin: the reason I did not answer your profound ICE question is that this liberal does not believe abolishing ICE. Not sure because while some liberals speak out on that, all liberals do not share this belief making your point moot. And you can look up what they think, I do not speak for them either, sorry.
um.. I am pretty sure they listed the source as ICE ERO report.
sorry you cant just blow that one off.
I haven't decided yet on "Abolish ICE". But I'd be open to "Repeal and replace ICE"
"you do understand the difference between hiring an illegal alien in the US and contracting a Chinese company to produce a product made by CHINESE PEOPLE IN CHINA?
both sides used the vendor during the election
"also made flags for Trump and Hillary Clinton during 2016. According to NPR"
Although this was not directed at me, I do understand the difference
The question should be not on the legal aspect, but the patriotic one.
Skippy, which side did their patriotic duty by hiring the vendor?
Do two wrongs make a right?
Are either or both sides hypocrites?
Why support either side?
Did both sides have an option to hire an American company to make these flags, and if so, why did neither side choose to have an American company make a patriotic symbol?
Metsman: When people say Abolish ICE, I have to believe that the vast majority of them want to rebuild/replace it, maybe go back to more like INS or a different organization structure with new leadership and a reasonable respect for basic human dignity that report to the DOJ rather than the DHS.
Also, Border Patrol is a separate division - they're the ones catching people at the border.
Anyone want to chime in to define what "Abolish ICE" means to you?
@ SD Correct, except for the moot part...it is a current topic apparently warranting protesting and marches....not everything we talk about we have to disagree on, so lets talk about it and not ignore the topic simply because you (may) agree with me.
alpha1beta, ok, fish on....so why do you feel ICE is not needed? or if that is not the case, what do you feel should be the replacement for ICE?
You guys do know there are legal paths to becoming a citizen right? Not everyone deserves the "free ride" of saying their seeking asylum.....that's much like claiming bankruptcy....easy way out in my book, and our government hands out way too many easy way outs, I am glad to see them finally showing some discretion...now if they would do that with all government funding we would be on the right path!
Again Skippy: I can not accept anything on face value coming out of this WhiteHouse. They seem to lie a lot.
When Kirstjen Nielsen, DHS director, from the WhiteHouse, addressed the zero tolerance mandatory family separation and incarceration without reunification policy, she had so much spin, lies, and deceit that were even obvious to the casual observer, so I exercise caution before jumping onto the WhiteHouse fact bus. Too many WhiteHouse spokespersons have been thrown under that bus for their lies already.
So, to vet this I need to check all the WH facts against your ICE report. Hoping for fact checkers to do the work.
Meanwhile: we have new updates on the 2,000 kids being returned by DHHS who had created a blackout of status. We now have 3,000 kids suffering the results of our zero tolerance mandatory family separation and incarceration without reunification process.
There's an underground railroad started though to help our cause for family values and family freedom. Volunteers are funding bonds for release of incarcerated asylum-seeking refugee parents, then transporting hem via car pool, since DHHS has stripped whatever documentation they had, from the boarder to Chicago, NYC, and the like where the kids are most certainly not all right, to reunify families. Don't watch: these flicks may be more heart wrenching than the removals.
OK SD...your obviously reading CNN as this is the only one currently posting that number...
Interesting take-away that you selectively ignored.....
"have been separated from their purported parents who were taken into DHS custody for having crossed illegally or for other reasons like concerns for the safety of the child.""
Key word....crossed illegally and other reasons like concerns for the safety of the child...exactly as we have been stating....these are people trying to skip the legal boarder crossings or other dangers doings that endanger the children....but you are oh so concerned.....
SD it’s laughable that you think all of these people are seeking asylum. These people tried to cross illegally, got caught, and then used asylum as an excuse. They came here to mooch off the system like their predecessors. I’m sure that guy who ICE caught on Main St wasn’t paying any taxes.
And you people who are against a border wall… you think those 2000-3000 kids are capable of climbing a wall? You think their parents are skilled in scaling a wall with no rope? A wall along with surveillance and manpower will put an end to this crap, but instead the liberals want to label Trump as a dictator instead of doing their damn jobs and voting for common sense measures. No one has a right just to walk into any country they desire to. It doesn’t work that way.
Libera family values and freedom ?
Like in Canada where they take your kids if you reject their preferred pronouns?
So taking kids away when parents make personal choice how to raise their children is ok. But it's not ok when the parents commit a crime.
SD, even with your long posts, I cannot figure out your stance on illegal immigration. You obviously enjoy arguing just for the sake of it and ripping our President, but what is your opinion on people coming into this country illegally and what should be done with them - if anything? Are you for open borders?
“Skippy, which side did their patriotic duty by hiring the vendor?“
Failure to buy American on all counts - if it’s true that the Trumps campaign bought them it’s obviously worse since they push the buy American angle but As I stated it’s apparenly a dead issue. Have not seen more about it
June 2018 Harvard- Harris poll found that 61% of registered voters believe that illegal aliens with children should not be allowed to stay in the United States but “sent home” to their native country.
Sixty-one percent said “sent home,” and 39% said, “stay in the country.”
In addition, the survey asked, “Do you think that people who illegally cross into the country should be prosecuted for illegally entering or not?”
Fifty-three percent said, “prosecuted,” and 47% said, “not prosecuted.”
Here is what I don't get :
“parents” come with their kids and are then separated.
- Trump is a Nazi who separated kids from their parents
"Parents" are then given due process, case is adjudicated, deportation is ordered and they are reunited with their kids.
-Trump is a Nazi who wants to send these kids back with their parents, smuggle them to a sanctuary city...
meanwhile in LA - Los Angeles on approved a $10 million fund to provide legal help to children separated from their parents at the U.S.-Mexico border - meanwhile the city has a homeless population of 58K http://homeless.lacounty.gov/
Oh - and they want you to pay for state-subsidized healthcare for ADULT llegal aliens.
"More than 100,000 undocumented adult immigrants in California would be eligible for state-subsidized health coverage under a major budget push announced by Assembly Democrats on Monday.
Lawmakers are asking Gov. Jerry Brown for $1 billion, a large portion of which would fund a major expansion of Medi-Cal, the state's low-income health care program. Roughly a quarter of the request – $250 million – would extend Medi-Cal to undocumented immigrant adults who are ineligible for coverage."
this type of Liberalism is NOT sustainable
and they want the rest of the country to pay for it.
stop the madness!
Oh man...… "OK SD..your (sic).obviously reading CNN as this is the only one currently posting that number..." Absolutely correct except I heard in on MSNBC, did not read it on CNN, and so, more than one source is reporting it. Beyond that, Darrin is spot on: obviously.
But WHO CARES, it's the HSS government published number and in a long diatribe he even explains it. But if you read that like I do, he is saying: "we don't have a frickin clue how big the number really is and shat if I want to be caught low balling it so I'm goin large. I mean, frack, we can't find the kids, can't put them with the parents, I don't even know where these kids are. I mean some of them are really small."
"Interesting take-away that you selectively ignored....." Beyond the simple conundrum of Darrin saying I ignored something that I did not read, did not hear, I think, my friend, additionally you know the truth.
They are "illegal" because the zero tolerance mandatory family and separation without reunification POLICY makes it illegal. So, of course, he touts the illegality. Otherwise, he has to be re-schooled by Trump...….and that's not pleasant: ask Prewitt, Scaramangler, (wow, we're gonna need a bigger post), Tillerson, Sessions (what kind of an a-wipe would take that abuse just to be able to go down as "the great separator" working for "the divider in chief." Damn, Session's past racism is starting to look good against his recent family values. Sorry, I digress....but you started it. :>)
According to the 1967 Protocol that we signed, and got 145 other nations to sign & comply with: "The Contracting States shall not impose penalties, on account of their illegal entry or presence, on refugees who, coming directly from a territory
where their life or freedom was threatened in the sense of article 1, enter or
are present in their territory without authorization, provided they present
themselves without delay to the authorities and show good cause for their
illegal entry or presence."
It's Article 31 of the Convention.
I think you know the truth because you wrote "So far....12,000 kids have been taken in....OF WHICH 10,000 crossed the boarder WITHOUT their parents or were SENT by their parents 2,000 were removed from their parents after they broke the LAW."
Or, if you don't believe yourself......
So you know there's a hell of a lot over 3,000 being held, and you know DHSS is parsing them out between w/wo parents. You also know that MANY, not all, but most, of the 3,000 with parents were asylum seekers that, according to our protocol, we should not penalize. Instead our protocol is expensive, ineffective, and mean-spirited POLICY that Sessions is forcing to be followed with Trump's approval.
Not your finest moment Dude. Like I told Skippy, you're on the losing side of history on this one.
I will just leave this right here...
“In March of 1993, The United States Supreme Court issued a ruling in Reno v Flores. (Yes, “That” Reno. Janet Reno, Bill Clinton’s first Attorney General who ordered that young Elian Gonzalez be torn from his family’s arms while hiding in a Miami closet. You might remember the iconic photograph.)
The Court in Flores decided that minors could not be incarcerated with the adults accompanying them across the United States border illegally. The decision was the result of a long dispute in how to best care for these children while the adults were detained for criminal proceedings.
You see, when aliens cross the border illegally, they are incarcerated until their criminal case is decided. The understandable argument at the time was “why should children be incarcerated while their parents are in jail?” It seemed a fundamental violation of international human rights. Makes sense, right?
As a result, The Flores case drew a line in the sand. Children could not be incarcerated with their parents or accompanying adult while being held for illegal immigration violations. And a subsequent 1997 agreement stipulated that children must be placed in a safer environment where they could enjoy certain privileges, including education, a clean, safe environment and other normal life cycle amenities that incarcerated individuals do not enjoy.
It was considered a “victory” for human rights. By separating adult and child, we protected the children, reducing any harm done to them for their parent’s or accompanying adult’s decisions.
A lot has happened since then. However; bottom line, these juvenile, shelters have been operating in accordance with the law, and overseen by the Department of Health and Human Services to protect those children from the hazards of parental incarceration since 1997.
So, since Donald Trump was running his real estate empire, selling wine and casinos in 1993, we are left to determine just how he managed to orchestrate this cruel “separation of immigrant parent and child” 25 years BEFORE he was President of the United States. The obvious answer is, he didn’t. He had nothing to do with establishing this United States immigration policy. Today, he simply enforces it.
This one story illustrates how important it is for us to do our research regarding today’s headlines. The Corporate Media either refuses to do the research, is incapable of doing the research or has done the research and decided to lie to you about its findings. Either way, this would make the Corporate Media lazy, incompetent or just plain deceptive. Liars, if you will.”
"DHS has stripped any documentation they had".
Has DHS admitted to doing so or are the Pro Immigration people making that claim.
SD, you really need to read what others are posting....it's getting quite rediculous! Everyone is saying orange and your yelling NO BLUE over and over! Get your facts straight dude.
I have stated (multiple times now) That the people being detained are people who ILLEGALLY crossed the boarder (to spell this out, this is people trying to sneak through the boarder)(or as also stated in CNN's article people who put their children in danger) There is ZERO TOLERANCE for this.....that is your zero tolerance policy that you are repeatedly trying to mix up with asylum seekers....even though multiple people have told you other wise.
These are NOT people walking into a boarder crossing saying I seek a asylum...this is a legal action...BUT...the problem is the facilities are so over capacity right now (costing us millions of dollars for sure (but this is okay?)) that they are being forced to turn away the asylum seekers.
Scottso: what is “your stance on illegal immigration. You obviously enjoy arguing just for the sake of it and ripping our President…..” Wow, is that how you break the ice? My question is how can you lower yourself to support this value-less man? How can you condone his actions, his lies, his cruelty?
“Are you for open borders?” Seriously, what is that beyond a brand name someone convinced you was cool? How do you define "open borders?"
My thoughts: The Session’s/Trump policy of separating families was ill conceived, badly implemented, and just unnecessary. It's a moral low ground and economically inefficient. His, and Darrin's, “it’s the law” stand followed by immediate retraction of said “law” via unnecessary, but photo-op-PR-stunt EO speaks volumes as to his lies, hypocrisy, and people’s acceptance of these low-minded values. With 3,000 kids still held hostage, this swallow still has more bad news to roost. Very bad news.
To say the answer is “build a wall, Mexico will pay lie” is just as stupid as Trump’s zero tolerance mandatory family separation followed by incarceration without reunification policy or “I can fix ObamaCare” stupid, simple claims. It is not simple, stupid won’t fix it and you can’t fix stupid either.
It’s not easy. You can’t just say “but what is your opinion on people coming into this country illegally.” There’s asylum seekers, legal job seekers, H1B’s, illegal job seekers illegal hiring by employers for both legal and illegals, MS-13, terrorists, drug runners, etc. There is no “one size fixes all.”
JIT speaks volumes when he noted: Congress won’t act. Across the aisle, without creating comprehensive immigration reform, major elements could EASILY be made law making major strides in improving our immigration policies. It's just weird.
To end undocumented workers gaining employment, mandatory, universal use of e-verify will stop 75% of the illegal worker problem INSTANTLY except for 25% problem of fake valid ID holders. That cures the lion’s share of the TOTAL immigration crisis right there. Done. Over. E-verify is decades-tested, decades proven, and I am sure we can make it perfect --- easily. No wall needed. No need to go after employers. No wall needed. Just done. Boom, problem solved.
For fake IDs, which is about 20-25% of the time, need to put IRS, DHHS, DHS, CIS and the rest of the alphabet stew together to solve the problem. IF we allow these organizations to coordinate efforts on fake IDs, boom, PROBLEM SOLVED, and this solution has benefits beyond illegal immigration.
For asylum seekers, improve the vetting process, continue rapid deportation for those who don’t vet, keep families together, avoid incarceration but assure 99% success in court appearances using ankle bracelets. Provide access to pro bono legal services. Boom, problem solved. We save all that money we are wasting on incarceration.
IF you want more from asylum seekers, we need to comply (or change) the 1967 Asylum Protocol that we established, world-wide. If we dim our largest shining light on our hill, others will extinguish theirs.
For immigration based on waiting-jobs or immigration based on desire (I just want to come to America), we need a variety of programs with measurements and metrics for success. Will cover in future entry.
Enjoy the day, see you on break :>)
"America should just take control of Mexico and Central America."
Now there's a plan....
934 posts on this thread.....I guess I'll never fully understand the logic-override of politics, religion or professional sports fanaticism.
And, being one of almost 1000, nothing I say here will make a damned bit of difference.
Yet we all still post....
Nicely Stated !
"If your so concerned about the situation these people are in then sponsor a family to live in your home until they become US citizens, and pay their taxes."
Grab on to this statement liberals and put "your monies" where you mouth is "...or as the saying goes "put up, or shut up"
I am exhausted and disgusted supporting persons from other countries here illegally while my son has to pay off student loans !
Theres nothing more ridiculous than a bunch of suburban/rural homeowners thinking what they think makes a difference on a global scale. This is especially true if their critical thinking skills are atrophied by watching only one or two news sources. Especially if those new sources are funded by advertisers. I like this forum for tips and referrals that only neighbors can provide. I don't bother wasting time or energy reading 99 % of the posts here because it is clear that the opinions are rooted in fear of the other and wanting to fit in. Happy Sunday y'all!
Darrin states: “I have stated (multiple times now) That (sic) the people being detained are people who ILLEGALLY crossed the boarder (sic)”
Again --- Many of these people are legal asylum seekers. They are not: ”this is (sic) people trying to sneak through the boarder.” If you can come up with numbers for legal versus illegal, we can discuss your point further but bear in mind that illegal crossing for asylum is a misdemeanor for first-timers. Thanks to a Trump EO, we now deport misdemeanors just like felonies. That’s not law, that's EO POLICY. And then Session’s instructs border agents to stop legal crossings whenever possible. Sweeet.
Again, I excerpted Article 31 of the 1967 Asylum Protocol that we championed and 145 other countries signed and implemented which clearly specifies: "The Contracting States shall not impose penalties, on account of their illegal entry or presence, on refugees who, coming directly from a territory where their life or freedom was threatened in the sense of article 1”
We now penalize legal and illegal asylum seekers under Trump POLICY.
As I noted, the crisis has been created by Trump’s zero tolerance family separation followed by incarceration without reunification POLICY which, if law as you feel, could not be law as it was modified to Trump’s zero tolerance family plan mandatory incarceration POLICY. Trump can not create law.
In other words, Trump has POLICY-ordered detention for legal asylum seekers by claiming all asylum seekers, whether at the port of entry or sneaking through are equally illegal acts. It is not law.
You believe an administration who lies, is known to lie all the time, and now fills your head with: “I hate the children being taken away. The Democrats have to change their law. That’s their law.” Trump lie, June 15 “We have the worst immigration laws in the entire world. Nobody has such sad, such bad and, actually, in many cases, such horrible and tough — you see about child separation, you see what’s going on there.” Trump lie, June 18 “It’s the law, and that’s what the law states.” Sarah Huckabee Sanders lie, June 14 “We do not have a policy of separating families at the border. Period.” Kirstjen Nielsen yugest whopper of all, June 17
Here’s what I am saying. Recently, WAPO concluded: “We’ve published two fact-checks about family separations, but it turns out these Trumpian claims have a zombie quality and keep popping up in new ways.” https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2018/06/19/the-facts-about-trumps-policy-of-separating-families-at-the-border/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.ad5d4b00176d
"All you zombies hide your faces, All you people in the street, All you sittin' in high places, The pieces gonna fall on you." Hooters, sorry, couldn't help myself.
At the same time, these rule-of-law gentlemen have instructed border agents to aggravate the crisis: “It’s legal to seek asylum at an official border crossing. But border agents are blocking people from getting that far.” https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/6/5/17428640/border-families-asylum-illegal
And they are looking to overturn Flores so that they can detain kids indefinably.
Darrin, if you can come up with numbers for illegal versus illegal, we can talk. Otherwise, I contend the entire 3,000 kids held hostage are legal asylum seekers, or at worse case, POTENTIAL (innocent until proven) misdemeanor criminals, a potential crime of low seriousness. It's yet another reality TV PR moment created by Trump to send a message of who were are.
these folks are exercising defensive asylum through Executive Office for Immigration Review (EOIR) in the Department of Justice. which means asylum is being applied for “as a defense against removal from the U.S.” and that absolutely falls under sessions purview.
easy way to avoid that issue - Affirmative Asylum: apply for asylum through U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services before you get caught and are in the process of removal.
the asylum seeker has ALWAYS had the burden of proving that he or she meets the definition of a refugee as codified in 101(a)(42) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA).( from 1965, also known as the Hart–Celler Act - clearly Trumpian time traveler created)
"a well-founded fear of future persecution" - as long as it's based on race, religion, nationality, political opinion, or membership in at least one particular social group"
In all cases the standard for this is the credible fear test. for individuals intercepted at the border and claiming asylum - this interview is conducted by an asylum officer during the expedited removal process.
this is directed by federal statute and regulations, plus the CBP’s policy outlined in the Inspector’s Field Manual (IFM). - again Trump the time traveler strikes again.
This means that the person has the burden to prove that they have a “significant possibility” of establishing eligibility for asylum or other protection under the Convention Against Torture and will be referred to immigration court to proceed with the defensive asylum application process - if this burden is not met they can appeal to a judge. If the negative finding is upheld they get removed from the United States.
The number of credible fear cases is up and to the right —in FY 2009, USCIS completed 5,523 cases. Case completions reached an all-time high in FY 2016 at 92,071 and decreased to 79,977 in FY 2017.
This process can take years.
The backlog in U.S. immigration courts reached an all-time high in March 2018 with more than 690,000 open deportation cases. On average, these cases had been pending for 718 days and remained unresolved.
the government can hold these folks for up to 6 months without a hearing - remember they OPTED OUT of the expedited return process and wanted to wait it out.
"Mandatory Detention. Foreign nationals arriving without proper documents
who express to the immigration officer a fear of being returned home must be kept
in detention while their “credible fear” cases are pending.13 If an asylum officer
determines that an alien does not have a “credible fear” of persecution, the alien is
removed. If the asylum seeker meets the “credible fear” threshold, they may be
released on their own recognizance while an immigration judge considers the case."
Time Traveling Trump got this one through in 2005
In FY 2016 - 20,455 individuals were granted asylum: 11,729 affirmatively and 8,726 defensively (Figure 1). Total annual asylum grants averaged 23,669 between FY 2007 and FY 2016.
meanwhile in the same time period
ICE conducted 240,255 removals.
ICE conducted 65,332 removals of individuals apprehended by ICE officers (i.e., interior removals)
60,318 (92 percent) of all interior removals were previously convicted of a crime.
ICE conducted 174,923 removals of individuals apprehended at or near the border or ports of entry.
58 percent of all ICE removals, or 138,669, were previously convicted of a crime.
ICE conducted 60,318 interior criminal removals.
ICE removed 78,351 criminals apprehended at or near the border or ports of entry.
99.3 percent of all ICE FY 2016 removals, or 238,466, met one or more of ICE’s stated civil immigration enforcement priorities.
Of the 101,586 aliens removed who had no criminal conviction, 95 percent, or 96,572, were apprehended at or near the border or ports of entry.
The leading countries of origin for removals were Mexico, Guatemala, Honduras, and El Salvador.
2,057 aliens removed by ICE were classified as suspected or confirmed gang members.
so to your statement
"Darrin, if you can come up with numbers for illegal versus illegal, we can talk. Otherwise, I contend the entire 3,000 kids held hostage are legal asylum seekers, or at worse case, POTENTIAL (innocent until proven) misdemeanor criminals, a potential crime of low seriousness."
you have the numbers for the last year available
you now understand they are seeking asylum as an affirmative defensive to avoid expedited return - ergo a mitigating factor to a crime.
you now know detention is mandatory.
none of this had ANYTHING to do with Trump Sessions.
SD, in the same post you do not answer a simple question because it's 'too complicated' then go on to list how simple each situation is to solve. So which is it, simple or complicated?
I'm trying to find common ground with you and to do so we need to start somewhere right? So again I ask a simple question...
Do you think anyone in a foreign country that wants to come to America to live should be able to do so? It's not a difficult question. It's not a complicated one. What do YOU believe? Don't tell me about Trump.
"which means asylum is being applied for “as a defense against removal from the U.S.”
...and that may be the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. It's worse than "the glove doesn't fit"
"Do you think anyone in a foreign country that wants to come to America to live should be able to do so?"
Yes. But you have to get in line, and follow the requisite LAWS to do so. PERIOD.
Just like when citizens want to drive. Or want to purchase a firearm. Or want to open a business. Or... or.... or.... FOLLOW THE LAWS. And if there's a wait, there's a wait. Period. (and those are people who are ALREADY CITIZENS)
Skippy makes good points on the true history of this issue, it's not new and it is a problem that needs to be dealt with instead of ignored.
Don''t believe the repeated lies above, they are wrong and ignore true history.
Elian Gonzales in 1993. Clinton was president, Janet Reno was the AG who ordered that young Elian Gonzalez be torn from his family’s arms while hiding in a Miami closet. You might remember the iconic photograph..
The SCOTUS in Reno vs Flores decided that minors could not be incarcerated with the adults accompanying them across the United States border illegally. The decision was the result of a long dispute in how to best care for these children while the adults were detained for criminal proceedings.
You see, when aliens cross the border illegally, they are incarcerated until their criminal case is decided. The understandable argument at the time was “why should children be incarcerated while their parents are in jail?” It seemed a fundamental violation of international human rights. Makes sense, right?
As a result, The Flores case drew a line in the sand. Children could not be incarcerated with their parents or accompanying adult while being held for illegal immigration violations including asylum.
A subsequent 1997 agreement stipulated that children must be placed in a safer environment where they could enjoy certain privileges, including education, a clean, safe environment and other normal life cycle amenities that incarcerated individuals do not enjoy.
It was considered a “victory” for human rights. By separating adult and child, we protected the children, reducing any harm done to them for their parent’s or accompanying adult’s decisions.
A lot has happened since then. However; bottom line, these juvenile, shelters have been operating in accordance with the law, and overseen by the Department of Health and Human Services to protect those children from the hazards of parental incarceration since 1997.
So, since Donald Trump was not president in 1993, just how did he manage to orchestrate this cruel “separation of immigrant parent and child” 25 years BEFORE he was President of the United States. ???
This illustrates how important it is to do research regarding today’s headlines. The MSM and liberal bloggers either refuse to do the research, or are incapable of doing the research and decided to lie to you about this issue. Either way, this makes the MSM and liberal blogosphere lazy, incompetent or just plain deceptive. Liars, if you will. They lie and they continue to lie to you, repeatedly, right on this board.
And some of regular OCD commenters on this little local town forum have fallen for these lies, hook line and sinker, I call BS on their continuation of the nonsense
Keep up the good work Skippy, you are correct when others on here are not
Democrat numbers is the one true goal behind a push in re immigration
“We reform the immigration laws; it puts 12 million people on the path to citizenship and eventually voters. If we have eight million new voters who care about, and will be voting, we will be creating a governing coalition for the long term.”
Eliseo Medina member of Obama’s National Latino Advisory Council and as honorary chair of the Democratic Socialists of America.
Good for US Catholic Churches too.
But please tell us why Republicans can’t garner new Latino voters?
@SD "Darrin, if you can come up with numbers for illegal versus illegal, we can talk. Otherwise, I contend the entire 3,000 kids held hostage are legal asylum seekers, or at worse case, POTENTIAL (innocent until proven) misdemeanor criminals, a potential crime of low seriousness. It's yet another reality TV PR moment created by Trump to send a message of who were are."
Well ain't that some ass backwards logic!!!!!
Mr Google....how about you JFGI and get your own numbers???!!!!! Oh that's right, because you already know the answer, but do not want to discuss it, because it goes DIRECTLY against what you are saying!
Oh look at skippy go....Chew on that SD!!!!
And I will double quote skippy.....(Just for punctual reasons)
In FY 2016 - 20,455 individuals were granted asylum: 11,729 affirmatively and 8,726 defensively
meanwhile in the same time period
ICE conducted 240,255 removals.
ICE conducted 65,332 removals of individuals apprehended by ICE officers (i.e., interior removals)
60,318 (92 percent) of all interior removals were previously convicted of a crime.
ICE conducted 174,923 removals of individuals apprehended at or near the border or ports of entry.
58 percent of all ICE removals, or 138,669, were previously convicted of a crime.
ICE conducted 60,318 interior criminal removals.
ICE removed 78,351 criminals apprehended at or near the border or ports of entry.
99.3 percent of all ICE FY 2016 removals, or 238,466, met one or more of ICE’s stated civil immigration enforcement priorities.
Of the 101,586 aliens removed who had no criminal conviction, 95 percent, or 96,572, were apprehended at or near the border or ports of entry.
The leading countries of origin for removals were Mexico, Guatemala, Honduras, and El Salvador.
2,057 aliens removed by ICE were classified as suspected or confirmed gang members.
So what do you have to say about that????
I hear crickets coming on.....
@SD "But please tell us why Republicans can’t garner new Latino voters?"
Do you have any proof of this, or is that just your dark racist side coming out?
Darrin, you do know that Latinos are of the Caucasian race, don’t you? Just like most Republicans.
What sort of racism were you insinuating?
@SD "But please tell us why Republicans can’t garner new Latino voters?"
LOL, please tell us why the democrats can't either, unless they let them in illegally/promise them asylum and financial benefits.
And please tell us why your party wanted to vote for crazy Doc Brown (and DID vote for a crazy admitted socialist in NY) instead of the "seasoned, experienced, professional" HRC. And also why the "seasoned, experienced, professional" HRC couldn't beat someone who's own party didn't even want him. An outsider, rich (evil) guy, who can't stop putting his foot in his mouth and used the "p&*sy" phrase.
Please tell us why the "tolerant, peaceful" left has been inciting violence and riots.
In reality, no one cares: the democrat party is burning itself down. I really thought they were smarter than that, but apparently not. There's even a movement beginning now, #walkaway, that's about democrats stepping back from the insane leadership (Schumer, Pelosi, Waters, et al) of the party, because they've run off the rails, are going down in flames, and want to take the entire party with them.... and the left is SO TOLERANT they even attacked the founder of the movement...
Scottso, you originally asked: “…your stance on illegal immigration…. what is your opinion on people coming into this country illegally and what should be done with them - if anything? Are you for open borders?
As I noted – my first part covered the illegal stuff so sorry if you were left wanting more. It answered your question, but then you asked: “Do you think anyone in a foreign country that wants to come to America to live should be able to do so? It's not a difficult question.” Now, check me if I’m wrong, but isn’t that a different question? JR says: Yes. Ijay agrees. I say No. Go figure on that one, but hey, I just say there's certain people out there that shouldn't even try. No matter what their "wants" are.
As I noted in the first part, here’s the second part covering the legal stuff on immigration.
For immigration-based jobs and desire-based immigration, IMO, we need a number of different programs under the same umbrella that we should test and measure against metrics.. We would like to attract talent but at the same time want to continue our heritage of compassion for those who just want the American dream. We can create a total “budget” for number allowed and then pie-chart that budget against the different programs and targets. Targets can be as simple as: rich guys, smart guys, talented guys, guys with money, guys needing money, guys who just love American, whatever “merit” we decide upon…..but let’s keep it as local as possible rather than federal, if we can.
For example, create a merit-based green card H1B status category at the STATE LEVEL so states can target outside talent not domestically available. Now we have merit-based, where the
merit is a skill and the skill is needed IN THAT STATE. Cool.
Unlike the monolithic simplistic Trump, I don’t say merit-based is the simple answer. Steve Jobs couldn’t pass a merit-based system. Maybe another “merit,” might be service. So we, allow those who desire to serve in our armed forces easier access; you know the Foreign Legion model. There’s another target.
Meanwhile, make the Federal H1B system easy to use, rapid, and with extreme punishment for misuse. Another idea: create a pay-based merit system where you can buy your way into America. Why not? Rich guys are OK for business, create jobs. Lastly, create a targeted green card system where, at the Federal level, we can specify national talents and merits in an opportunistic fashion like all the top scientists in Russia.
Still waiting for you to answer those questions. I answered yours.
And now for something completely different: I noted that some have the attitude of "why are these people coming here, why don't they just stay home." So I looked.
While I don’t say it’s our fault, I think it’s pretty clear that our hands are not squeaky clean when it comes to our current immigration crisis now stemming from Central America.
Honduras is one of the most dangerous places on Earth basically run by rival gangs. I was struck by the picture of Wendy’s with three guys with shotguns at the door to protect patrons. What struck me wasn't the guns, it was that Wendy's is doing business there :>) It’s a gruesome place where murder, rape and worse is just an initiation rites for minors joining the gang. Sometimes they just gang rape the inductee.
Someone noted that “these people” should just say home, fix their own country or we should just take over Mexico/Central America. Fact is, we already took over Honduras, that’s the problem.
In late 1800’s, writer O’Henry coined the term Banana Republics as defining a place where American fruit corporations run the country, install all sorts of puppet dictators, and then joined with an elite class to control the peasant workers through a reign of terror. Lobbying Congress, these fruit corporations even got the US to help them via boots on the ground or clandestine activities to control the country.
After mucking about on one side or another, in 1909, we transferred massive Honduran debt to NY bankers and then the US controlled much of the country’s infrastructure and revenues. Get it? Jump ahead many puppet regimes to the 1980’s and you get Ollie North, Contras, Nicaragua, CIA-backed murder campaigns, and even boots on the ground. Good movies, right?
Meanwhile we are aghast at MS-13 sneaking in to kill us all. MS-13 originated in Los Angeles in the 1980’s. Initially they protected Salvadorian immigrants, many of who were driven from their native lands over the violence created often through our meddling in the Banana Republics. Hondurans joined as well. After deportation of gang members back to their home country, the pipeline link from Central America was firmly established. The 18th Street gang, or La 18, has a similar heritage, but initially made up of Mexican immigrants.
Add in the unintended consequence of US South American drug interdictions and now Honduras, without US drug interdiction, is the major hub enroute from South America to the US. It's like squeezing the jello tube. We interdict in South America and they move to Central America making life, on top of the gangs, totally impossible. So, if you can, you leave.
Two essays from SD and not a single touch on the numbers as requested....just as I suspected.
SD is just like the liberals who come on Tucker Carlson's show and don't answer his questions. LOL...
Well SD, they are the same question asked two different ways. Someone in a foreign country, who wants to live in America and - not through any official U.S. channels -enters our country with no plans on leaving would be doing so 'illegally'.
And the answer to the question, I agree with you, is 'No'. It is absolutely and obviously 'No'. I think JR answered the way he did because the MSM & the left has done quite an awesome job of making people feel guilty for things they shouldn't feel guilty about and that's a damn shame.
Sounds like you and I are on the same side SD. I'm all for a Visa program, granting asylum and provisions for migrant workers and for a certain amount of legal immigrants that don't fall into those previous categories every year. This is about 1.5 million new people a year according to factcheck.org. Pretty cool right?
What I'm against - and it sounds like you agree with me on this - are the 350,000 or so people sneaking into America every year, outside of established channels. Or people overstaying their Visas. Those people should be deported immediately, if apprehended, or turned away at the border. Right?
Why would I research your claim? You offering pay?
I told you my conclusion and asked you to prove elsewise.
I tlold you why presenting yourself at a port of entry and claiming asylum shoukd not be illegal according to the 1967 Accord that Trump ignores.
You came up with affirmative and defensive, well, actually Skippy did and you copied it. And then you conflated that to illegal and legal.
And your data does not cover the current crisis of the 3,000 kis who felll into Trump’s zero tolerance mandatory family separation without reunifcation policy which was never the law, but was Trump’s Policy that YOU called law even after Trump rescinded the Policy via EO
I honestly don’t know what you want until you come up with some relevant data.
The data provided was plenty relevant, say whatever you need to to attempt to dismiss it....I would expect nothing less from you.
Scottso; It depends. As I noted, e-verify should virtually end any undocumented worker issues going forward. If alphabet soup allowed to share, fake id’s will fade too.
If someone has been here for awihile, are gainfully emoloed, are virtual citizens, we’re at full employment so they aren’t taking JRs job, I think we can do better than deporting. After all, who would rent at Auntiel’s if we made all the undocumented leave. So, DACA, path to citizenship —- I can support that.
Looks like eveyone who wants one has a job. Gee, appears they never were taking our jobs after all. Go figure. Gee, just not sure how everyone here missed that....Now if we could only convince Darrin, Skippy, Jr, and JIT that its really just not practicing family values to rip kids from parents and lock them up in tent city in 100+ degrees, we be happy.
SD wants "relevant data."
Well then, it doesn't seem to much to ask of people coming here for requested asylum to provide "relevant data" that they are in fact in danger in their native land. And/Or that they are in fact the parents/guardians of the children in their care. Gotta' "prove it", right SD? That's one of your favorite sayings, "prove it."
Thus I have noted vetting, improving vetting, and support immediate return of those who don’t pass. Still no reason to rip babies from Mother’s arms. That’s rarely OK and something most people, except some conservatives here, do not support. Wrong side of history on that one. It will never turn out positive.
"I tlold you why presenting yourself at a port of entry and claiming asylum shoukd not be illegal according to the 1967 Accord that Trump ignores. "
despite everything above your still going with the illegal to claim asylum
Migrants appear at a port of entry
Migrants have no documents or for whatever reason are "Inadmissable"
Customs and Border Protection officers take asylum seekers to a processing area for said “inadmissibles,”
Migrants ask for defensive asylum to stop the removal.
they have a credible fear interview and the process starts.
they are detained during this process
this pre existed Trump.
if they sneak in and get caught - they are catching charges. They can make an affirmative application for asylum
heres the process and form
what is not clear about that.
in neither case is it in anyway illegal.
"...rip babies from Mother’s arms."
#1- they aren't doing that. You DID know Trump signed the EO, right?
#2- ever hear of human trafficking? It might be a mall minority of children being brought here by people other than their parents, but it HAS happened, therefore is likely happenING.
#3- wrong side of history, huh? That means the LAW is on the wrong side of history. (and it wouldn't be the first time). CHANGE IT. But trying to continually beat Trump over the head with a law he did not right, did not sign, and signed an EO to countermand (which will no doubt end up in court eventually) is pure folly. Everyone sees what your side is trying to do, and it's going to fall flat on it's face just as "russia collusion" did, the "p&*sy" remark, more gun control, Melania's jacket, this RIDICULOUS "abolish ICE" movement.... it's quite funny, really. I mean, I know you guys are frustrated, I know you got nothing valid, you're just complaining, and that's your right. But to pretend your side is holding some kind of moral high ground is ludicrous. Why do you think the #WalkAway movement has started? Even Democrats (and moderates who sometime vote democrat) have had enough of the lunacy.
If you want to talk about who's on the "wrong side of history", we need to be talking about Schumer, Waters, Warren, and Pelosi. They are punching holes into the hull as fast as they can. The democrat parties true colors are flying high and proud for all to see.... and it ain't working. Better reign in some of those extremist nutjobs or it's going to be awhile before you are able to rebuild....
SD, so is what YOU really believe that if you make it here, by any means necessary, you can stay?
Or are you just the moderator with the appointed duty of dragging these threads out ad infinitum to increase Google rankings?
@SD "and lock them up in tent city in 100+ degrees, we be happy."
SD in all seriousness, is your memory really gotten that bad or do you always completely dismiss factual info and lie through your teeth to try to grab emotion? You sound like a fake new reporter.
We already proved these tents are air conditioned (actually have been over this 3 or 4 times now).....yet your poetic tries at grabbing emotion continues...you lie through your teeth time and time again just to try to make people believe you.....you are spiraling out of control!
On top of that, factual numbers from the best source available were posted, numbers you specifically requested...NOPE dismissed by you for whatever means you could pull from your butt.
Time and time again you try to make it seem these people are walking into a legal boarder crossing and claiming asylum.....numerous people have posted multiple evidence that these people being "locked up" are people who are trying to skip out on the legal boarder entry points (ILLEGAL), or people who put their children in danger.....but all this factual evidence (that has been stated 5-6 times now) has been dismissed by you.....
You are really up in the clouds of lal la land lately hu? And common sense says, that until you come back to reality and actually listen to the factual evidence you are being presented it is a utter waste of time to even have a discussion with you.
Well, isn't this interesting.....
"Mexican President-elect Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador is planning to create a specialized border force to combat illegal immigration across Mexico’s borders, according to his hand-picked security chief.
The new force is aimed at stanching the flow of illegal immigrants and contraband from Central America and will also be deployed to Mexico’s northern border, Alfonso Durazo said, according to Bloomberg. It is part of Lopez Obrador’s broader strategy against regional violence, corruption and poverty.
“We’re going to create a border police force that will be highly specialized,” Durazo, who is set to become Mexico’s public security minister when Lopez Obrador takes office in December, told Bloomberg in an interview."
This, from the guy who says his administration is about "hugs, not bullets." What a dichotomy...
SD, so is what YOU really believe that if you make it here, by any means necessary, you can stay?
Or are you just the moderator with the appointed duty of dragging these threads out ad infinitum to increase Google rankings?
Scottso, you asked a question, demanded an answer, didn’t like it, asked another question, I answered and you dumped on me: “Or are you just the moderator with the appointed duty of dragging these threads out ad infinitum to increase Google rankings?”
And no, what you wrote is not what I believe or wrote. I said “If someone has been here for awihile, are gainfully emoloed, are virtual citizens, we’re at full employment so they aren’t taking JRs job, I think we can do better than deporting. After all, who would rent at Auntiel’s if we made all the undocumented leave. So, DACA, path to citizenship —- I can support that.”
That’s very different from what you snarky-surmised.
SD these people don't pay taxes. They’re here benefitting from things the rest of us pay taxes for to maintain. They’re kids cost tax payers around $20K a year to go to public school. Illegal immigrants as a whole cost over $100 billion a year. And the fact that 3,000 kids are being held in a 3 month period is testament to the fact that they come here in droves. We can’t sustain that. Eventually there will be an economic collapse. May not happen in our lifetimes, but could happen to our children and their children. How hard is it to stop at a US consulate or embassy along the way on their journey and apply for asylum?! No, they’re trying to cross the border illegally and only when they get caught do they use the asylum card. Look at what’s happening in our own town. 3 small children left in a disgusting apartment on main street while their illegal parents are out doing who knows what… I bet you could find more situations like that in our town if the authorities dug deeper. It’s time for the gutter trash Pelosi, Schumer, Waters, etc to be voted out or retire. As long as those old cronies with their senile rhetoric are around, both parties won’t work together.
"I think we can do better than deporting. "
You're right- we can keep them from entering in the first place, JUST LIKE MEXICO.
Skippy, I do understand what you are saying. My question is: of the families facing zero tolerance mandatory separation with incarceration without reunification now replaced by zero tolerance family incarceration for indeterminate time, how many entered illegally (across the border) and how many legally at a port of entry. You now have further muddied the waters by claiming: “Migrants appear at a port of entry. Migrants have no documents or for whatever reason are "Inadmissible"” seemingly indicates that’s what you think always happens. In all of this, my point is we don’t know what is happening much less how often it happens.
We do know that illegal crossers claiming asylum, whether fully documented or not, are now immediately put into the federal court system where no facilities for minors or families exist forcing the separation. As to what is happening after the EO, no one knows.
For legal asylum seekers at a port of entry, my understanding is that families, with documentation, were being separated and incarcerated as well.
Of the 2,000 separated kids, under this new warp-speed rescinded POLICY, we don’t know how many illegal, legal, documented, not documented, whatever. We do know that after the POLICY was modified to end the mandatory separation, that now there are magically 3,000 kids meaning we can question the count too.
You have not provided any proof to counter that except data from BEFORE Trump’s policy took effect.
“Court records and individual cases discovered by The Texas Tribune indicate that a number of asylum seekers who came to international bridges in Texas and California were separated from their children anyway” or “were not able to cross the bridge at all after encountering armed Customs and Border Protection agents on the bridge”
Much posting but no answer to the question so I contend all 2,000 are legal crossers with documentation and ask you to provide data to prove that wrong. The crisis is 2018, and since Trump/Sessions changed the POLICY to zero tolerance, mandatory incarceration, your numbers from previous administrations do not apply.
“But the Hope Border Institute has documented cases of family separation at ports of entry that go back as far as December 2016 — just after Trump’s election.”
“U.S. District Judge Dana Sabraw criticized the practice in a recent ruling on that lawsuit. “The parent has committed no crime,” He pointed out, adding, “Ms. L. is an example of this family separation practice expanding beyond its lawful reach, and she is not alone.” He went on to order the government to reunite separated families in the coming weeks.”
“It’s not clear why these separations are happening, since none of the parents appear to have been prosecuted for entering the U.S. illegally.”
My point Skippy is that we really don’t know. Your numbers don’t apply to the new POLICY; I certainly have cases of legal asylum seekers being family separated, incarcerated, etc.
Beyond the human tragedy, what surprises me is that you are joyfully willing to spend all this taxpayer money for such an abominable, yet unnecessary, process of separation, incarceration, when a simple court date and ankle bracelet gives a 99% chance of court appearance. But this does make good TV and perhaps that’s the real point.
METS: can you source that before I refute the obvious inaccuracies?
My question, if there are 2000-3000 children separated from their parents(mothers mostly) why haven't the parents come forward to claim them? If they are not being held and are awaiting a decision regarding their asylum then they should be able to do so. You do know many of these children have been sent different parts of the country with 300-600 that were sent to NYC.
What do I need to source SD? Look up the cost to school a child. You think there aren't illegal kids using the school system? You know a system we all get taxed for and these people don't. You live in a bubble dude...
“seemingly indicates that’s what you think always happens. In all of this, my point is we don’t know what is happening much less how often it happens.”
Wether or not they’re documented - they don’t have the appropriate visas to be admissible. If they do have valid ID the process of identifying them is assuredly shorter.
The policies I posted were before trump - that was the point. He didn’t make this up.
The change in the policy is that now instead of catch and release - folks face federal charges - as they should. There needs to be a strong incentive to sneaking into the US.
The bottom line here is that every one of these migrants OPTED in to this process. They could remain with their families in Mexico.
"What do I need to source SD? Look up the cost to school a child...…..You live in a bubble dude..."
All righty then and thanks for the nice talk. You type to your mamma with those fingers?
Your unsourced call: "They’re kids cost tax payers around $20K a year to go to public school"
The real world: "Nationally, the most recent data indicates $11,762 is spent on public education per student. (2016) http://www.governing.com/gov-data/education-data/state-education-spending-per-pupil-data.html
I'd say you nailed that with your usual precision. Nice double down on danger, stranger. Hopefully a teachable moment.
But wait, there's more......
Given 5.5M immigrant children (PEW Research), your yuge miss of $8K per student (Mets), that's $44B off your unsourced total cost of $100B that you say, unsourced, we spend on illegal alien children. Hey, what's a 44% Met's miss amongst friends. I am your friend, aren't I? Your bubble dude?
Now my logic may be fractured there, but since you did not source, I just have to go by the numbers you presented. It's your spin after all.
As you obviously know, in NJ, where we live, school's are mostly funded by Property Tax, like 5% Federal thank you Chris. FAIRUS says $1.85B spent on aliens in NJ so now your $100B must be $54B or a 46% miss. Wonder how many other states FAIRUS screwed the pooch on education spending on aliens? I mean.....unless you can tell me how illegal aliens skip out on paying property tax that is. Democratic rental agents looking for potential voters....Illegals buying property with fake ID and then skip paying property tax. Don't think our township tax collector is missing that one.
So besides batting 100% error in the first few things I looked at, I do give you credit for doubling down on deceit. Too bad you couldn't look into the errors you were publishing. Or what we call doing the don. I will pass on the other errors.....there's a space limitation :>)
Skippy, think about my conclusions: “seemingly indicates that’s what you think always happens. In all of this, my point is we don’t know what is happening much less how often it happens.”
skippy: "Wether or not they’re documented - they don’t have the appropriate visas to be admissible. If they do have valid ID the process of identifying them is assuredly shorter." You don't know the numbers here and the old ones dont' count against a new process. FYI --- how hard is it to get a VISA to leave a war zone? Honduras killing fields? Just wondering.
skip says: "The policies I posted were before trump - that was the point. He didn’t make this up." Trump/Sessions changed the process in a fundamental fashion. They did make this up. Not with law, not with EO (until he rescinded perfection with the new perfection after 3,000 kids got separated under the rescinded policy), but they did this via a phone call, a memo, etc.
How can you not see that a new policy is in effect? Even FOX sees it: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/06/19/what-trumps-zero-tolerance-immigration-policy-means-for-child