Now that the summit has officially happened, and an agreement (of sorts) has been signed, let's see how this goes....
The agreement is very preliminary, no de-nuclearization in it. But a journey of a thousand miles starts with the first step, right?
What I find most interesting is that the last 3 presidents could have done this. NK invited them. They all said no. They were not willing to "give" NK the "playing card" of a presidential visit without them promising to de-nuke FIRST. Trump is taking a different tact, but that's what he does: he's a deal-maker. Won't it be interesting if this leads to the de-nuclearization of the Korean Peninsula, with the reward being NK getting a seat at the big boy's table and participating in the western economy.
I have said all along this posturing has always been about that: Kim-Jong Il was crazy; his son is a brat but I don't think he's crazy. I think Un has simply been posturing, to show his "strength", because he wants to be in the popular crowd. But his ego won't allow him to come crawling.... so if letting him posture, and then negotiate from a seeming position of power (it's not) gets the job done, fantastic. And if it works out, Trump should indeed receive the Nobel for his efforts.
HOWEVER- I don't expect NK to keep their word, despite signing an agreement. Just like Iran hasn't. It won't surprise me in the least if this whole deal falls through before completion (because NK won't de-nuke), nor if the deal is completed, and a few years down the road we find them not keeping to the deal.
The threat of any real nuclear launch is, imo, non-existant. This has all been posturing. The whole point of nukes is mutual assured destruction. Only a lunatic would launch a first strike. And Un is not a lunatic. He's a KID trying to become a MAN on the world stage.
In the past we fought Germany, Japan, Vietnam, and now were are trading partners.That it is. Interesting times,
Waiting for the negative spin in mainstream media...
Aaaaand didn’t need to wait long
1 week ago
If anyone thinks North Korea would let themselves be completely denuclearized they are just SILLY!
Once the "BULLYING" starts up again for something, at some point (does it ever cease?), we'll be back to the starting point or near it.
Darrin, Trump is working on the threat first. After the threat is mitigated, he will work on denuclearizing the peninsula. One thing at a time.
Media a few months ago: OMG Trump is going to get us in a Nuclear war with North Korea....
Media Now: OMG Trump is actually talking to that guy?!
DUMBacrats always find a way to make a good thing bad....
(Another example being the jobs reports...They're the best they've been in 20 years BUT Liberals complain)....
1 week ago
So yes president d****** is friends with the dictator but is a complete ass to our Allied friends. That doesn't seem right to me. President Trump is a dictator. He is a moron a bully a racist. And I will say under investigation. Our allies hate him and there's good reason to. I can't believe people are still being fooled by him
Trump has already done more than some presidents took 2 terms to do. This guy will go done in history as the GOAT.
What has he done put children in cages lost 1500 children separate families oh yeah president Dirtbag has done a lot nothing but cause headache heartache and more racism in this country as people up to him as an example and are doing more racist stuff. Seriously what the heck are you smoking he is the worst president. The way he treats other people is disgusting especially women and minorities LOL I laugh at your comment because you're one of the people who are getting fooled by this in decent human piece of garbage
Proud liberal, typical you think the the picture of kids in the cage was taken during the Trump administrations tenure. More liberal lies, that picture was taken when Obama was president. Get your facts straight please.
Better than Republicans. Republicans are not doing it time to make it wave for the blue I can see you're still being fooled by Trump. The way he talked with the Canadian leader and the way he treats the other allies is ridiculous. He's making friends with the wrong people. Republicans are not doing it they're not cutting it anymore they're scamming the people of America and it's ridiculous. Time for change time for somebody to know what the heck they're doing. Trump it is not the guy and his boat followers are being fooled and they're pretty stupid the ones I talk to their like Hillbillies that live in the country time for a change of time for Democratic to get control of the house till things get done Republicans failing
Yeah same with the race issues. They started with Obama. Fergusson and Baltimore happened on his watch.
LOL okay you keep on being fooled. I'm not it's not even worth arguing with a trump supporter they're not well educated on what is going on.
Proud Liberal or Bobby? As in, Bobby DeNiro! You really are suffering from a bad case of TDS (Trump Derangement Syndrome)! Now you are even commenting on the Hackettstown Life Forum! LOL!!!
At least this negotiation did not require 1.4 Billion in cash to be flown to "Rocket Man" in the middle of the night. Did somebody say Iran? Owebama?
1 week ago
Yeah we're all toothless brain dead Neanderthals right? LOL... The arrogance of some liberals is astounding...
So funny reading proud liberal.. as usual the left, in its never ending quest for tolerance can only make points by inane name calling. The picture of the cages with children in them were of course, as we now,know, a picture from 2014 and the obama regime that the fake news tried to pass as current.
Thank you Proud Liberal for being proud of who you are, your language, lack of factual knowledge, childish name calling and a complete disregard of the facts of what is happening in the economy, our trade policies, black/hispanic unemployment, and consumer confidence provided a clear picture of the socialist/liberal of 2018.
Why are our immigrant children being put in cages and where the heck are the 1500 missing children. And toddlers and babies getting ripped out of the hands of their mothers absolutely ridiculous no reason for that type of bullying. If your family live somewhere where soldiers came in the middle of night killing your children and you having to leave with nothing but the clothes on your back and having to travel by foot for many miles and enduring hunger and having no place to go. Would you want somebody to help you and your family. Sit down and think about that the way you're treating me is people it's ridiculous. And Trump is terrible his ass needs to be in jail for the treatment he's doing do these poor people let me ask you something would you want somebody and some country to help you and your family if this was you. Being thrown out of your homes these terrible people killing your children and your family and you than having to walk many many miles without food or shelter think about it stop thinking about your selfish self and think about these poor people. These people that are in war countries that have nothing. If you wear them what you want somebody to help you and your family.?
"So yes president d****** is friends with the dictator but is a complete ass to our Allied friends."
You kiss your mother with that mouth?
Our "allied friends" (Trudeau) is being a complete ass to our president.
Had Obama done this, signed this preliminary deal, today's headlines would have read "Peacemaker Obama!" "Obama the Great Diplomat!" "Obama: a 2nd Nobel Peace Prize?"
But since TRUMP did it, it's all "Trump was mean to Trudeau", "the agreement doesn't mention human rights", "how dare he talk to a murderous dictator"
Tucker Carlson was right: the greatest thing Trump has done was send the left so far over the edge that they have lost their minds, their extreme hypocrisy on grand display for all to see...and that includes most of the MSM. It's been HILARIOUS to watch the left double-down on their insanity. They are so consumed with hatred for Trump they no longer see reality. It's been joy.
Maybe if November goes the way I think it's going to, Proud Liberal's head will explode.
Trump: bringing balance to The Force lol
You think you're funny but actually you're pretty pathetic. Just like Trump himself seriously time for the Democratic takeover! Time for a change Trump is not the answer and if you think he is a decent human being you are wrong. Just the way he talked about women should be a heads up on how this terrible human being really as sand people do not learn from that it's pretty sad that our girls have to look to him to see that his earlier. Wake up and now you're not funny I don't smoke crack apparently YouTube because you voted for Trump time for the Blue Wave to come and get this country back on track
" Time for change time for somebody to know what the heck they're doing. "
Yes, America agreed with you... on November 8, 2016.
Hmm... How about that Bill Clinton guy who recently got all bent out of shape over Monica Lewinsky and how he wouldn't do anything differently today...
You think racism is okay.? You think talk to you that women like the way Trump talks about is okay? You think snatching children away from their parents out of their mother's hand is okay? If you think any of this is okay and you support around this man you are horrendous person yourself I'm done arguing with a bunch of AirHeads there's nothing in your head but are if you think that the listed topics above is okay. We treat animals in shelters better than we do the people that are coming over to seek help from war countries. And it's ridiculous and if you support what Trump has done to these people and what he has said about women then you're just as love person as he is good day
What racism are you referring to and whose kids are being snatched? You're all over the place...
Actually JR we already know how Fox News would have reacted if Obama met with North’s Korea
Excellent! And to keep things in perspective.... Fox News (who also hypocritical, yes), is ONE of.... let's see....
ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, PBS.... so 1 of 6 MSM television outlets. 1 that leans right vs 5 that lean left... FAR left in some cases. Serious minority.
Of course that goes ditto for all the printed news outlets as well, NYT, Washington Post, etc etc etc.
Don't waste your breath arguing with a trump supporter it's like arguing with a small toddler LOL they don't get their way so they have a little tantrum just like our so-called current president
"they don't get their way so they have a little tantrum"
The only tantrums I saw were getting thrown by all the lefties who voted for Hillary. And of course 90% of the media.
Liberals....cry me a river lol! And float Obongo Hillary Podesta Holder Frigging Bernie the pathetic know nothing about economics geezer who got screwed by his own liberal communist party float them far away and help make America great again lol!!!!!
1 week ago
Outside. And you come on here spewing hate to people who dont agree with you. How are you any different than the person you are comming on this forum badmouthing...Yes you are a bigot.
Proud Liberals posts are absolutely hilarious.....it's like watching an ongoing adult temper tantrum......It's so amusing to watch you squirm!
God, if we said 1/4 of the stuff you are running on, and on, and on about when Obummer was in office, we would have been permanently banned from the site!
I am honestly surprised the ongoing name calling and foul language from proud liberal has been allowed to stay....better posts have been removed for far less, and it is very clearly against the forum rules...maybe you should read them something?
Russia Russia Russia!....LOL! Russia and Uranium One....not funny
1 week ago
You mean because I speak the truth. And people were horrible about Obama when he was president. I just how it is. Trump is racist and his supporters are too because I support that type of behavior. And it needs to stop. Trump looks down on women and minorities and it's horrible and so does his supporters. It has to change. Now he's becoming friends with the dictators of North Korea and that's not okay and he's being a jerk or to our allies that's not okay either. I tell it like it is. I've seen videos of numerous horrible behaviors about racism and they even admit because Trump is in office and they think it's okay. Well guess what it's not okay racism should not have happened in this day and age and we should be helping or immigrants who were coming from warlike countries. I bet you would want something or somebody to help you if you were coming from these countries and it's ridiculous. And the text scam is only for the rich and he's basically saying f*** you poor and f*** you minorities and he's giving the rich a tax break when we cannot afford that. I'm sorry if you don't like the way my posts are but I tell it how it is and I'm standing up with democratic because it's the way the country is being ran right now is not okay by a dictator and a racist and it has to stop. I'm a part of a group that educates what Trump is doing and I will continue to educate about the horrible things that this was so-called president is doing to the people. Especially the immigrants. Immigrant children are being taken from their mother right out of their hands and being put in cages living conditions or not good and he lost 1500 immigrant kids how is that okay immigrants are not nobody ever deserves to be treated like that. We live inside times Trump is not the answer he's probably promoting hate and he's really not doing an American people good by helping the rich get richer people are suffering because there assistance is being taken away very sad times I apologize if I offended your sensitive cells but this is not okay the way that work living right now in Trump's America terrible terrible terrible and something has to be done that. Obama when he was president horrible things was saidt about him . It's time to wake up and realize Trump is not the answer and stop living in tunnel vision Trump is racist and is a goonie
So you actually prefer a destabilized Korean Peninsula under nuke threat, higher taxes, higher unemployment, a slower economy, Hamas killing Israelis, and MS-13 flooding into the U.S.. because Drumpf REEEEEEE!
Trump is so Racist that he freed Alice Johnson from prison
Black unemployment is at an all time low and the delta between that and white unemployment is the smallest in recorded history. (See employment thread)
has growing support from the black community
Democrat tactics 101. Label your opponent as racist, sexist, homophobic, elitist, etc. Doesn’t matter if it isn’t true. Just keep pushing the angle regardless of validity.
I am still working and learning English my apologies but no need to be a bully and make fun of that
@PL "no need to be a bully"
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA....pot MEET KETTLE
Still learning English? What ever happened to that being part of the test to legally live here?
It's all making sense now.......
"I am still working and learning English my apologies but no need to be a bully and make fun of that" - ill give you kudos for attempting to assimilate in to the culture
oh the racist is also awarding a presidential medal of freedom to Dennis Rodman.
"Trump is racist and his supporters are too because I support that type of behavior. " well you support racists so I am not worried it.
You are bullies immigrants and people who don't speak English well. My case has been proven and it shows that you're just as a bully like trumpets good day
"99% of media outlets are covering the federal investigation into the Trump Campaign thats lead to charges, indictments, and guilty pleas, but Sean Hannity told me that's all a conspiracy so you libtards are crazy!" - JeffersonRepub's thought process.
Honestly do you just copy and paste the transcript of whatever Fox News says? It's crazy that people honestly believe that they won't spin literally everything in the favor of republicans and against the democrats.
All and all you failed my experiment test and you bullied immigrants especially with that meme so I can't take what you say seriously you're just like our so-called racist president
You do realize all the charges have nothing to do with what Mueller is supposed to be investigating right? He has nothing. The investigation is a farce...
And if you think putting children in cage is acceptable behavior like Trump is doing then I pray that you don't have any children
The Nogales photos were taken during the Obama administration, in 2014
No law mandates that parents must be separated from their children at the border, Under U.S. protocol, if parents are jailed, their children would be separated from them - unless you want children to be put in cages...
Nobody can stop trump as he steam rolls ahead and over the lefties. Hes even got Dennis Rodman on his side. Kidding aside Trump won his second term the minute he started his first one. I can tell everyone that one thing is certain, that Proud Liberal will in fact be very disappointed that day :)
I am a woman, I am middle class living pay check to pay check and I voted for Trump. For the past 1.5 years all I've heard is..."you support Trump, you're a racist". I am so sick and tired of the Libs calling Trump supporters racists, bullies, etc. I'd give my last penny to someone who needed it (regardless of color or who they voted for). Some of these liberals...I wonder if you'd help out someone wearing a MAGA hat or would you kick them when they were down???
You all sit there and talk about how Trump speaks about women....but you completely seem to ignore the whole topic when it comes to the Bill & Monica scandal.
Regarding N. Korea...it's a positive step in the right direction. As an American I hope promises are fulfilled and it's a success. Republican or Democrat...shouldn't we all be hoping for the same thing?? Well....I wouldn't be surprised if Crazy Hilary isn't hoping for success...
Why isn't everyone rooting & cheering for the USA & it's success??? Seems to me the libs are hoping the US fail.
Proud Liberal - how many times are you going to repeat that children are "kept in cages" under Trump after multiple people have fact checked you on that and showed you proof this occurred in 2014? Do you even read what people are responding or do you just believe every thing you see re-posted on Facebook that is meant to conjure up emotions on those who are easily swayed by propaganda? This is a serious question because you keep repeating the same thing over and over with nothing to back besides your own emotions and it's becoming frustrating to read. If you want these people to listen to you and not respond sarcastically, you need to listen to them as well when they are responding directly to the inaccuracies you are posting.
Polls show Trump’s approval growing, better than Obama’s during same period in Obama’s presidency. Obama’s disapproval numbers averaged 54-57 percent in June 2010. Obama’s approval numbers remained relatively low, and his disapproval numbers relatively high, for several years.
the American economy is booming - go look at the may jobs report thread..
Wage growth is booming, the stock market is skyrocketing and consumer confidence is at a 17-year high.
I like how you post this completely unsubstantiated stuff with no basis - with no supporting info.. No need .. Drumpf is a racist got it.
Besides, trump offered NK real estate,condos and best hotels. Who is going to put in money there when Kim himself couldn't afford his Singapore hotel stay. Trump and America cannot force EU or any other independent country to invest there with development there. It's a deal between America and NK,so what we promised NK, are we going to give them that? How do you verify and validate NK complies to denuclearization? That's altogether a long process. They must not end up blackmailing us to give in for every little baby step they take.
What didn't happened? What picture it? If they weren't caged then why was a senator not allowed in? Nothing to hide,right?
Proud Liberal. I’m married to a mexican, who was born in Mexico. We are both trump supporters. Mind blown yet? Are we both racists?
Why is Obama always a benchmark for trump and his supporter. I guess for trump he can't get over the fact that a black foreigner(foreigner to him-kid born to an American parent,even if abroad is american) dared to become potus. Why no mention of FDR as benchmark who is the 1st american potus to make America global economic and military superpower?
ok continue to fabricate reality
It’s a secure facility in a converted former Wal-Mart that’s heated cooled etc.
Merkley was admitted but couldn’t take pictures or enter with the ACLU and the rest of the clown college.
Merkley was told he could not stream it on Facebook
They use fencing to separate children from adults
That’s all from a WaPo article. Give it a rest
Philliesman: I guess proudliberal meant is every racist in America is most likely a trump supporting republican.
So, are the kids allowed to go out? Play in the sunshine like your kids, Skippy? What about their emotional balance? Putting them in bunked beds or say without the caged,, without taking them out is "home" or good enough for you if they were your kids? What about those babies and small toddlers that were separated?
The Yale, the senator was allowed to visit the sites he hsdotiginally requested. You seem to have overlooked that fact. The senator was denied access to a third site he had not previously requested. BTW, nothing was found to be wrong by the senator at the sites visited. Another fact you seem to have overlooked.
hardest working president of my whole lifetime, history and the extreme leftists can't deal with it, they only have two things in their playbook, two things they repeat like TM mantra over and over again, 'racist and womanizer', they got nothing on the substance of what is by all measures, the successful track record of this administration, and all of this is happening in the face of fierce resistance from both established parties.
we wanted change and we got it, we wanted a true outsider and we got it, hallelujah
this was a successful diplomatic trip, and your president should get credit for it,
Right on Yale. Because they are not white American kids skippy doesn't care
Proud Liberal you are a very disturbing individual with all of your assumptions.
BC: My concern is not about the kids are caged or not. I am more concerned about the emotional well being of the kids, especially those toddlers,babies and younger kids. Do they have normal activities like other kids,your kids? They are not prisoners,right? Not prosecuted,right? Then, do they spend entire day all time in the highly secured Walmart, without seeing sunshine? Are they allowed to go out and play? How are their emotional well being taken care of? What about the other 1500 missing kids,given away by DHS to the so called vetted sponsors? And those sponsors are untraceable?!! What were those your kids? Would you have cared then??
Looks like a snow flake is having a melt down. Give him a brake, but take his guns away, Ho! that is right, he does not have any.
The only racist I see in this whole thread is Proud Liberal. Questions for you Proud Liberal: Are all white people racists because they are white? Have you ever met a white person who was not a racist? Are all conservatives racists? Even those who are African-American, Hispanic and Asian?
TheYale: Maybe their parents shouldn't have sent them across the border unattended. They could have kept their kids with them if they wanted their families to be together. If parents in NJ behaved this way towards their own children DCF would step in and take charge of them. Again, you need to look back at the prior administration for the kids in cages move that Obama is responsible for.
“So, are the kids allowed to go out? Play in the sunshine like your kids, Skippy? What about their emotional balance? Putting them in bunked beds or say without the caged,, without taking them out is "home" or good enough for you if they were your kids? What about those babies and small toddlers that were separated?”
Well their families just dragged them through the desert riddled with human and drug traffickers - I’m sure going out to play during the 72 hours they are there is not high on the Maslow hierarchy.
There getting food water shelter and medical care and most likely sent to live with familiy members in the us.
And apparently because I have fact based comments and opinions and don’t buy into your imagined agenda I too am racist. Meanwhile you are living in the greatest country in the world - as an immigrant - which protects your right to hold your completely biased opinion and spew it on to the internet. God Bless America.
I find it troubling you support someone that talks about women in terrible ways and who thinks lock in up kids is ok
That's per the international treaty that America signed to. Do you expect the kids to be sent to labor camps like in NK? Every country do what America does- give food,shelter and medical needs to refugees or illegal immigrants and their kids,but no country,not even in Europe,they separate kids,babies from their mothers. Don't try to justify that. It was done by executive order.
Did I miss something? Where are these children who are locked up by President Trump?
“Every country do what America does- give food,shelter and medical needs to refugees or illegal immigrants and their kids,but no country,not even in Europe,they separate kids,babies from their mothers. “ as was posted and linked to before - this only happens in cases where the parents are being held for criminal charges outside of the illegal entry to the US. No country in the world houses pre-trial inmates with children. Why would you even advocate for that. This is done to protect children from predatory adults.
In what other context would parents who are clearly endangering the lives of their children , including them in the commission of a crime and contributing to their delinquency be seen as victims? This problem is not unique to this administration. Regan put Central Americans in camps, Obama did the same - guess what this is a humane way we have to deal with this problem which abides by international law.
The message clearly being sent is DON’T COME ILLEGALLY.
By the way - trump denounces separating children in any form. Next
What if was your family in a war zone??? No place to go ....because they took home ..killed family...no food water....what would YOU do? To become citizen is hard and they do pay money to stay here...that's what is wrong not caring about people and putting more money in rich pockets... Trump and his friends are crazy
You don’t have to become a citizen to live here legally. How does one pay money to continue an illegal act? There are provisions for asylum seekers in that event. I certainly would not violate the sanctity of a sovereign nation and demand rights freedoms benefits and protection of their government. That was the point of the meme earlier - you don’t get to do that in any circumstance.
You need an ID to vote in Mexico - not here. Which Is another thing we need to change so this gargbage doesn’t keep getting pandered to - the only reason it’s being discussed is the democratic base consists of the deceased on the voting rolls, illegal aliens granted ID in the blue states and the elite globalist crowd who just want to make sure they have cheap household labor. Think about it
Sorry Proud, but you really need to be educated. I have some questions for you. Why did you come to this country?? Are you contributing anything?? What are you giving back to be here?? Being an American is a privilege and not a right to freeload. Did you come here to become an American and have all the freedoms we hold dear. Did you leave the land your from and not look back?? Seems to me you brought nothing but hate.
If you must know yes I'm a legal citizen if you would like to see my paperwork I'd be happy to fax it over to you. I paid taxes and my fees to become a citizen and yes I contribute to society and I volunteer so yes I am here legally and I did it the right way but unfortunately many people are suffering and these War zones and America should do more to help instead of President Trump o putting money into the riches Pockets scamming people and saying f*** you the for minorities and also God said to help those who need help well these poor people need help. I invite anybody to have some coffee and have a friendly debate and I will educate you on the Terrible Things That Trump is doing but yes if you like my paperwork I would love to fax it over to you
Keep lying! No country prosecutes illegal immigrants. These prosecution started after trump came to office. Jeff sessions is the brain behind this. There is no law to prosecute illegal immigrants before that like you claim! In other countries,they deport. Even in EU, they don't prosecute illegal immigrants. They could have deported,these separating kids and parents and prosecuting parents happened under trump and session,not before that and not in any other countries
I would love to share stories over a cup of coffee about what these poor people are going through their children are dying their family members are getting kidnapped and killed by these horrible people in the war zone countries. I extend an open invitation for coffee so I can educate you people about the heartache that these poor immigrants are going through and then maybe you'll have a heart and you realize that these people are God's people too and they deserve shelter food and water just like you have. To turn their backs on these poor people who lost their homes family members everything they have except the stuff on their backs is heartbreaking and hear people saying that these people don't matter is terrible. The lies Trump has told is ridiculous and you people are being Fooled Again I invite you for a cup of coffee on me and I will educate you about what Trump is doing and the lies he's telling and everything else that relates this topic. And the people who are making fun of immigrants and questioning me is just terrible and it just shows what kind of people you really are somebody like Trump and that is saddening. After all the Native Americans were here first so technically your families are all immigrants unless you're Native American. Something to think about. Again I extend an open invitation coffee on me so I can educate you
And for aunt. I love this country I love most of the people in this country what I don't love is the so-called president and the people who think like him. I became a citizen when Barack Obama was here I loved him and I was very sad to see him go so you choosing me of what you stated above is a lie and that just shows that your hatred towards immigrants which is so sad because I know so many great people who are immigrants who brought so much to this world of love. I invite you and anybody else to email me we'll get together and I can tell you stories of what people have suffered and go into detail and you would be disgusted on how they were treated well I would hope you would be disgusted of these poor treatment of people. I would love to meet you for coffee and anybody who's interested he wants to learn what really is going on
Even trump has to go back only till his grandpa,before that his bloodline was in Scotland and Germany. Just saying
Very true Yale and also his wife was an immigrant which I don't understand. I feel very badly for that girl because she doesn't get treated like she should by Trump it's ridiculous
Funny thing about trump is he married two legal immigrants and his wife Melania brought her parents here through chain migration. No trump voter has problem with that.Now trump get all angry and hates legal immigrants as well and chain migration. His brave voters don't question him about his wife or in laws but clapped and shout his name. Wow! That's His Royal Highness of United States of America
If trump married a legal brown Arab immigrant instead Caucasian Christian European immigrants, sure some trump voters would have asked some questions
The Yale, The children being detained after illegally crossing our border are being well cared for. They have safe shelter, good food and medical care something they lacked during their journey, a journey that placed them in danger. So they are much better off now than they were previously. Keep in mind, the separation of children from their parents after entering our country illegally was initiated during the Obama administration. However many critics of Presiddnt Trump try to place the policy on him. Lastly, Obama let tens of thousands of undocumented children be dispersed throughout the country to supposed family members. Most were never heard from again, including failure to show up for their immigration hearings. Most likely because their so called family members are also here illegally and don't want to be found for fear of possible deportation.
Yep sad but true. I think we scared off the trump lovers with correct facts! There reaction to me be an immigrant just shows their true colors and how they really are terrible people like Trump
I always thought North Korea was being punished for their behavior in regards to economic sanctions, because the leadership of the country wronged those with greatest influence over the flow of global economies. It makes me think of Great Britain, and how they would react to perceived offenders.
But, I think the economy is a separate Entity from the D.C. government diplomacy. So if the POTD wants to have good foreign relations with a specific country, there's not much preventing it from wielding its authority.
Congress on the other hand, has the most say in regards to D.C.'s dollars.
While the goal is M.A.D., this hasn't stopped any country from trying to prevent 1st strike, 2nd strike, and 3rd strike capability or to assure first strike capabilities against a country. And, while people think you'd have to be "mad" to launch nukes, the option is realistic when it involves the invasion of a nuclear armed country like Russia and the U.S.A.
Someone I know used to work at his Golf Course in Bedminster, and he saw DT and his wife in the clubhouse. I was told that he treated her rudely and without respect, and this was about the time when the golf course opened, about 10-12 years ago! (just saw the golf course opened up in 2004, 14 years ago).
Why so much bullying, belittling, name calling, derogatory descriptions and bad names about almost Everybody that doesn't think the world of him? I'd be thrown in jail and fired if I did that in the work place or out on the streets!
I've never seen anything like this in all my years of watching Presidencies.
I am sorry proud liberal, but if you in fact did it right...you should be mad at those who are trying to cheat the system....I certainly would be....because you proved yourself that it was possible to become a legal citizen...other people are just too lazy and know they can get away with it..and again what is it about ILLEGAL that you do not understand?
"I think we scared off the trump lovers with correct facts!"
You didn't scare off anyone...and if your did..it was certainly not with your delusional "facts"....Nothing you have said is correct...in fact it's just the opposite...factual info has been posted debunking your incorrect claims...yet you keep claiming it is true!!!!
And secondly.....everyone left their JOBS and went home to spend time with their family.....not everyone has the time to post every 10 minutes like you!!!!
Yep sad but true. I think we scared off the trump lovers with correct facts - name a “fact” you posted that was not debunked
@PL "Wow hack"
Um.....what? unless of course you are talking about yourself and all your debunked claims...in which case I AGREE WITH YOU!!!!!
LOL read the above message I was responding to hack residents what she said and your ridiculous I'm not going to spend waste time talking to you
I debunked you Skippy. This prosecution of illegal immigrants for just crossing started under trump as well as separation of kids. And they dared to give away someone's kids to vetted sponsors who lost almost 1500 kids as these sponsors remain untraceable! That's wrong. No country gives away illegal immigrants' kids away to other individuals
I just read an article where veterans that' they're being deported after serving this country horrible . LOL can't you read skip LOL
Trump's grandpa dodged 1 draft and ran away to America during WW1, he got kicked out of Germany,stripped of German citizenship.
Trump went to military school,played many types of sports there, then he dodged 5 drafts, he is president of United States of America, cheered upon by supporter for mocking mc Cain for returning home. Trump supporters are really patriotic. I applaud them with bow head.
If trump was German during WW1, he would have been kicked out of there 5 times. Just saying....
Sure the veterans that are being deported have not dealt with their legal status or have committed other crimes
Nobody said military service made you above the law - you debunked nothing
Yale I and others have showed you links that this was in place at lest as far back as 2014
Got links to any of that? Do you need a lesson on how debunking things works?
Trump was one of 15.4 million men who received deferments, were exempted or disqualified from service - he appeared as ordered and the military didn’t accept him.
So the basis of your position is you’re wrong and a racist - despite being shown facts
Obama removed naturalization from basic training - how about that
“Naturalization used to be part of basic training, but the laws changed, Stock says. As a result, lots of green card holders went to Iraq and Afghanistan without becoming citizens. She says the Obama administration has been aggressive about deporting immigrants who commit crimes, including veterans, though no one knows an exact number.”
Military service doesn't make you above the law unless your military service is commander in chief. Can you imagine the republican reaction if Obama or Hilary had said that they could just pardon themselves for crimes as our current president did? And yet it is ignored.
I'm genuinely curious to hear how the Trump supporters in here feel about Trump saying he could pardon himself if he were charged with something as a result of the Mueller investigation.
Yup, as mc Cain said rich kids come up with bone spurs certificate made and paid by their dads to avoid veitnam. Trump gave other reasons too- attending college,etc etc.
Patriotism is all about spirit. To fight for your country no matter what! Trump was not disabled, he gave military excuses and one of them was bone spur. Military academies should stop taking students who have bone spurs like trump(we all know that a lie
As I said, patriotism is about the spirit and courage to fight and die for your country.
Even rich kid Robert Mueller VOLUNTERRED to fight in Vietnam and got injured in one of the fiercest battle there and even after injury he refused to be released from service and wanted to go back to veitnam to fight again. He only accepted release from service because as per military rule that time, he could not get back immediately after injury to the battlefield again.
Let's face it, military service to fight for your country is not for MEEK AND WEAK trump. He was given 5 chance,he didn't take it.
“Can you imagine the republican reaction if Obama or Hilary had said that they could just pardon themselves for crimes as our current president did? “
Clinton relied on the sailors and soldiers exemption as commander in chief during his impeachment.
Trump didn’t say he could pardon himself Gulianni did - as did Allan Dershowitz a constitutional scholar and fervent liberal
Skippy, I forgot to mention - trump went to veitnam as he described with his own words- "avoiding STD with women's pu$$ies were his own veitnam war" during the actual veitnam war time period.
So you can say he is a veteran
Wow Yale. I am learning a lot and now see trump is worse then I thought. Thank you!
June 4, 2018, "...I have the absolute right to PARDON myself..." Donald J. Trump, on twitter. So what's your opinion on Trump pardoning himself if the Mueller investigation proves that he committed a crime?
You don't understand. Trump is His Royal Highness, King of USA to his MAGA base. Even if founding fathers,Lincoln, Reagan,FDR return from their graves(just saying to explain), they wouldn't care. Trump is NOT ONLY crowned KING of United States of America,but it's only founding father too, to his base. They will fight even with real actual founding fathers for trump.
To pardon himself? Only king/queen and royal family can do that! Not POTUS, POTUS is the number 1 topmost public servant. Constitution allows him to be indicted,impeached or even prosecuted. If he has constitutional rights as POTUS, Nixon and bill Clinton could have pardon themselves in oval office infront of DOJ officials instead of facing public humiliation and impeachment process,why didn't they use their constitutional rights? Because they don't have that
Except constitutional scholars have agreed thst he has thst power - what do you want me to say
Lol...proudliberal anyone coild make up anything they want and as long as it is anti trump....and you would "learn a lot"....meaning you are aparently believeing everything you hear and not doing a lick of your own research.
Now actually opening your ears and looking at both sides......that might actually teach you something as opposed to hiding behind your continual "racist" name placing.
And really....give it a break....you have been posting just about every 10 minutes for the last 8+ hours....don't you have anything better to do....and isn't this thread about Korea?!?!?!
Article II, Section 2, Clause 1, of the Constitution, under the Pardon Clause. The clause says the President “shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment. - period end
The only racist I see in this whole thread is Proud Liberal. Questions for you Proud Liberal: Are all white people racists because they are white? Have you ever met a white person who was not a racist? Are all conservatives racists? Even those who are African-American, Hispanic and Asian?
Grey I guessed you missed the meme that was posted. I married white man. So you are wrong.
What I don’t get is why you feel that others should be able to circumvent the process when you went through it legally
I am speaking for the immigrants. Get treated poorly by the so-called president and his cronies I'm not sure how that is being racist. I have been attacked by my English on here and for being an immigrant. So now I'm not racist at all but these people who are attacking me are they think like Trump which is racist
these people have no place to go they're getting killed in her home country their children are starving. They come here and their children get locked in cages and are being snatched from them they need our help. If you were in this position would you want the country that you were going to to help you? Think about being in their position and what you would want done. It's horrible situations like I said I have stories that are just mind-blowing and I would love to meet you and share this information with you over a cup of hot coffee. And Trump with his tax scam I just making the rich richer. Like I said I want to help these people or being kicked out of their homes out of their homelands with nothing but the filthy clothes on her back. Their family members are getting killed their children are hungry they have no place to go just think about it I am done for tonight I'm going to hold my children closer tonight and it's time to retire and go to bed. But please don't make fun of my English I bored very very hard to learn this language I graduated height right High School GED and put myself through college. I've done a lot and I worked hard and pass citizen test. Just things to think about before you open your mouth to degrade immigrants after all the Native Americans were here first something to think about good night
The Yale, you say, Patriotism is all about spirit. To fight for your country no matter what. If that's true, please explain why Bill Clinton and Barack Obama didn't serve. Oh that's right, Clinton received a college deferment and Obama was too busy to enlist because he was running the black militant programs in Chicago.
Ok then let’s reset - why do you feel that people
Have an inalienable right to enter this country based on whatever atrocities are occurring in their home country? Why is anyone that does not agree with your obviously self admitted biased view get labeled as being a racist? Why is trump
You’ve been provided facts and imperical evidence where Trump does not act in this manner as well as evidence that you’re using this label to further your personal agenda.
Change my view. Hold your kids close because you’re lucky to be In the greatest nation om the world. You immigrated here because of that fact. Enjoy the freedoms that our forefathers provided for you. we as Americans deserve to protect what we have created - you included.
Yale provided you sources. Holding my kids because some kids are being torn away from from parents and put in cages. I been attacked on here for being here by trump supporters look back at terrible meme. Why is trump not help in pr..still no power. Good night
I want you to say your opinion. Do you support President Trump pardoning himself if the Mueller investigation concludes that he is guilty of a crime related to election meddling? I'm not asking if you think he's allowed to, I'm asking if you would support the president if that happened. Everyone on here is so quick to say that Democrats stick together no matter what, so is this something you would stand by the president on?
Sorry you feel attacked but you hold a view which is not substantiated - have a good night
PL, minor correction to your comment. People crossing our border are not immigrants they are illegal aliens. Crossing our border without permission is illegal and being in our country without proper permissions makes one an alien. Hence the term illegal alien. Many of these people are either dragging children with them or sending the children on alone. This in itself is illegal as it amounts to child endangerment. A US citizen would be jailed for simply leaving a their child home alone let alone subjecting them to potential rape, assault, and even murder in their attempt to enter our country illegally. Also, under international law, those persons seeking asylum are to do so in the first free county they enter. In the case of those from Central/ South America the first country is Mexico not the United States.
I probably dis liked Obama as much as you people, don't care for Trump. I did not get as upset as you people do, because there is nothing you can do about. Obama went around the world apologizing for Americas actions, He never put his hand over his heart, and never whore a lapel Flag, as most Americans do. Thats where the football players got there kneeling from. Mid America noticed and MAGA. was born. There are just as many RINOs as Dems. in the swamp so he has to work around them, Politicians are not a place to look for virtue. Just look at the action of the FBI, JOD,and CIA leadership. Neal Goursh was his first main accomplishment. Maybe he will get another judge that can read the Constitution and abide by it. May you all have peace in your heart.
“Why won’t you let anyone from a terrible country come into the USA?” “Why won’t trump help PR?” Why do we have to help anyone? Can we worry about taking care of our own country?
Our roads, airports, electric power grid infracstructure are all terrible and way behind the rest of the world. We can’t be daddy for every poor soul out there and I actually wish we could. Liberals do not have a monopoly on compassion and I care about other human beings but it’s foolish to think we can help every person from every war-torn or impoverished country. I’m not being racist or mean or elitist. I’m being practical.
Anyone else on their second tub of popcorn? PL, you’re a hoot
1 week ago
Proud liberal "Why is trump not help in pr..still no power"
What a crock, we have spent billions on aid, and more than 99% have power. Stop getting your news from sensational headlines.
“Anyone else on their second tub of popcorn?”
Popcorn? Popcorn is white... why do you like white popcorn so much? You’re racist!
I don’t blame President Obama for not meeting with Kim. Had he done so, he would have been AGAIN accused of being by terrorist lover, an America hater, a commie, etc.
LOL your comment, it does not make any sense. I guess you did not read the part where I have white husband and my children are half white biracial. I don't support any races who support Trump in a hideous racist policies not just from white people anybody regardless of race who supports Trump's princess hideous policies I don't agree with not just white people. You need to read the full form to realize that I have white people in my family.
Proud liberal....you came on here first running your keys all over that every trump supporter is a fool and a plethera of other offensive names including bigot and racist........when someone responds to you about your actions......you suddenly were the one that was attacked.....your kidding me right?
The sky is hazy...but not hazy enough to hide your hypocrisy.
"I would love to share stories over a cup of coffee about what these poor people are going through their children are dying their family members are getting kidnapped and killed by these horrible people in the war zone countries"
And this is america's responsibility.... how?
All this nonsense can be boiled down to this:
Don't come here illegally. It makes you a criminal by default. If you bring your children, or SEND your children, it is YOU that is responsible for their fate, not the current sitting US President.
"I just read an article where veterans that' they're being deported after serving this country horrible ."
IMO, military service- HONORABLE military service- should earn you automatic citizenship.
"I am learning a lot and now see trump is worse then I thought."
Worse than YOU thought? Not possible.
"So what's your opinion on Trump pardoning himself if the Mueller investigation proves that he committed a crime?"
How about we stick to things that have ACTUALLY happened instead of hypotheticals?
"these people have no place to go they're getting killed in her home country their children are starving. They come here and their children get locked in cages and are being snatched from them they need our help."
Again: not America's responsibility, and don't come here illegally.
America does not have the resources to take in every person on the planet that is "in a troubled area." It's not that simple. We can't just print money and build them their own towns across the fruited plains. You need to learn about something called REALITY, because you're living in some hypothetical, utopian fairy-land in your mind.
"The Yale, you say, Patriotism is all about spirit. To fight for your country no matter what. If that's true, please explain why Bill Clinton and Barack Obama didn't serve. Oh that's right, Clinton received a college deferment and Obama was too busy to enlist because he was running the black militant programs in Chicago."
Of course DEMOCRATS don't count- do your homework.
"PL, minor correction to your comment. People crossing our border are not immigrants they are illegal aliens. Crossing our border without permission is illegal and being in our country without proper permissions makes one an alien. Hence the term illegal alien. Many of these people are either dragging children with them or sending the children on alone. This in itself is illegal as it amounts to child endangerment. A US citizen would be jailed for simply leaving a their child home alone let alone subjecting them to potential rape, assault, and even murder in their attempt to enter our country illegally. Also, under international law, those persons seeking asylum are to do so in the first free county they enter. In the case of those from Central/ South America the first country is Mexico not the United States."
EXACTLY!!!! Too much damned common sense in that comment!!!
And +1 to Old Gent's comment above, as usual, he's got it 100% right.
Proud Liberal - you didn't answer any of the questions I asked of you, not a single one, again the only racist on here is you. You said that President Trump is a racist. Do you have any proof or just angry invective? You said that all his supporters are racist because he is a racist. Again, do have any proof of this? You haven't provided a single shred of evidence to support your outrageously invalid claims. I asked you if people of color who supported the president are racists. You avoided answering that question. Still waiting on your answer. You cant have it both ways.
Anyhow, this whole discussion is off course, because Proud Liberal, your president had a historical and successful diplomatic visit with the leader of North Korea and you should be acknowledging that simple fact and give your president the credit he is due for this significant accomplishment
"Do your homework," why didn't trump serve....No, he got a medical deferment although he is not sure which foot was the problem...And then we have Bush who never served
Jimmy Carter United States Navy Lieutenant (navy) Served during World War II as a midshipman at the United States Naval Academy. Sea duty and stateside service 1946–1953 during the Korean War.
Gerald Ford United States Naval Reserve Lieutenant Commander World War II (1942–1945); combat on USS Monterey, discharged in 1946.
Richard Nixon United States Naval Reserve Commander World War II (1942–1945); earned two battle stars for service in the Pacific.
Lyndon B. Johnson United States Naval Reserve Commander World War II. Received Silver Star after observation mission in which aircraft he was on came under Japanese attack. This was Johnson's only observation flight, and Johnson was the only individual on it to receive an award, leading many historians to conclude that Douglas MacArthur presented it to secure Johnson's political influence.
John F. Kennedy United States Naval Reserve Lieutenant (navy) Served in combat during World War II. Received the Navy and Marine Corps Medal and the Purple Heart.
Dwight D. Eisenhower United States Army General of the Army Stateside service during World War I. Served as Supreme Allied Commander in Europe during World War II (1942–1945). Entire active-duty career spanned from 1915 until 1969 (excepting his two terms as president).
Harry S. Truman Missouri Army National Guard,
United States Army,
United States Army Reserve Colonel Stateside National Guard service in Missouri (1905–1911); served in combat in France during World War I (1917–1918); transferred to Army Reserve and retired in 1953.
Franklin D. Roosevelt
As we may note from this list only two presidents where Republican.... " Of course REPUBLICANS don't count"- do your homework.
Eisenhower was also a republican. Must be that "new math" they're teaching....
I won't go into the whole "the democrat party of yesteryear is NOT the democrat party of today" thing... true as it is... some of us have actually STUDIED history, as opposed to just listing a bunch of names republican vs democrat. *I* would have voted for some of those democrats.
"Anyhow, this whole discussion is off course, because Proud Liberal, your president had a historical and successful diplomatic visit with the leader of North Korea and you should be acknowledging that simple fact and give your president the credit he is due for this significant accomplishment"
That's all it is; the snowflakes are falling again... can you imagine how "cold" it's going to get if the republicans gain seats in the mid-terms? And if Trump gets re-elected? Get out your parkas!
And this is why the Democrats will not get regain the house or senate... You have people like Proud Liberal and Yale using the Nancy Pelosi playbook saying the sky is falling...
nice list citychick, how about Herbert Walker Bush? Isn't he a decorated vet from WWII ? What about Teddy Roosevelt? And of course Ulysses S. Grant? looks like your source may have an axe to grind with republicans. Can't deny that Bill Clinton is a draft dodger who didn't inhale.
But to your point, where are the great democrats like JFK today? Your party has moved so far to the left it is actually standing in foul territory and is actively rejecting those democrats who are more centrist and more balanced in their views on American exceptionalism, border security, business, and the economy. Where are those Democrats today? You guys are sorely missing the likes of JFK and FDR and Harry Truman.
Out of the list I gave you for your edification ,,,,Carter (d), Ford (d) Nixon (r) Kennedy (d) Eisenhower (R) Truman (d) and Roosevelt (d).....I was just going back to the end of WW11... Herbert Walker Bush was not a president, stay on topic GreyHawk ( Like your name)....Do not deny that Clinton dodged the draft, but trump lied at least Clinton is a Rhodes Scholar I am not sure trump even made it out of college.You guys are sorely missing men like Eisenhower....
Republican, never said Eisenhower was a democratic, please do not miss quote me....that leaves us with 2 presidents who served since WW11 who are Republican...That's a fact....
Thanks for the laugh citychick. You must have been asleep from 1988-1992. There is a reason why they call them Bush 41 and Bush 43. Also, Ford was a Republican.
I notice Strangerdanger has been missing. Is this forum being trolled by Proud Liberal? Maybe he did a Bruce/Caitlyn and transitioned?
It's funny but PL doesn't answer any substantive questions and keeps repeating the lie about kids in cages. No matter how many times you repeat a lie, it doesn't make it true.
"Maybe he did a Bruce/Caitlyn and transitioned?"
Or an iHob? LOL
No way, PL is nowhere near SD's skill level of obfuscate & confuse LOL. Give SD some credit.
So nice to have a president who is putting America's interest first.
Glad to see that there are negotiations between us and North Korea after so many decades.
Perhaps now we will be able to stop paying for patrolling the wall between North and South Korea.
Maybe we could put some of that money back into the budget to build and Patrol our own border wall and keep MS-13 from coming here again after we clear them out of here.
Trump has made many wonderful changes.
Imagine how many more good things could be accomplished if the GOP and the negative newscasters would stop trying to attack everything he says or does...
Trump already declared NK is NO Longer a Nuclear Threat. If he declared it,we should all believe it
Herein lies the insanity - there are people who are rooting for Kim Jong-un to back out of this deal or keep building up his nuclear weapon arsenal, and keep testing just to make our president look bad .
even worse rooting for our economy to tank, in their effort to get rid of Trump.
Bill Maher last Friday "we need a recession, and we need a recession fast. Sorry, if people get hurt, but we need a recession to get rid of Trump."
De Niro at the Tony Awards with the F-bomb a couple of times and getting a standing ovation for it.
I will go the WH or trump tower and kissed trump's feet the day UN inspection team declares NK destroyed all its nukes. If that happened, he needs to get 1000 Nobel Prizes.
Trump did a good job for atleast bringing NK to the table but the denuclearization process has not started yet and its premature to declare NK is no longer a nuclear threat.
Trump did promised Kim NK of development of hotels,condos and real estates. Are we as tax payers ready for our govt to pour in aid to invest there? All i am saying is he did a good job,better than other presidents on NK,but he should just shut up praising Kim and NK and must be careful that we don't give away too much for little baby steps they take.
Here ya go - no playing politics here eh: https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2018/06/12/fox-news-obama-trump-coverage.cnn
Both CNN and foxnews play pro and anti trumps. Nothing new! Bill maher was wrong to wish for recession and deNiro should have not cursed and used "F" word but should have said his views more thoughtfully on policies that he don't like as he is entitled to that. Everyone-celebs,news pundits,comedians;republicans or democrats : pro and anti-trump have used derogatory words to slam both obama and trump, and this should stop. Debate is good but not name calling and wishing bad for common people.
I am still wary of Kim Jong-un actually delivering but if Trump gets nuclear inspection teams in NK by October it will be huge win for the world.
with the MSM the way it is I ignore the words and just pay attention to actions.
1. there was a meeting
2. NK released hostages
3. US and SK halted war games operations.
future committed deliverables:
1.Korean war remains returned to US
2. dismantling of missile launch sites (quid pro quo for halting war games.)
left to discuss:
1. Kim Jong-un commits to a date where nuclear inspectors can show up and prove the nuclear program is dismantled , then the US will elevate some of the sanctions.
2. Kim Jong-un will allow some external businesses to operate in NK and get a taste for capitalism and trade with SK. they enjoy prosperity and this is check against China.
Capitalism a gateway drug to democracy. While the press and the left may laugh at McDonalds and hotels in NK, that and Levis brought down the USSR and does more to ensure peace then all the nuclear inspections and military operations combined.
"Capitalism a gateway drug to democracy. While the press and the left may laugh at McDonalds and hotels in NK, that and Levis brought down the USSR and does more to ensure peace then all the nuclear inspections and military operations combined."
There's truth in that. Did you guys see the movie the WH produced to basically "show" North Korea why it would be a good idea to play ball with the US/join the rest of the civilized world?
Brilliant diplomacy. I've seen CNN calling this Trump "playing" Kim, but it's not- because it's TRUE. This TRULY IS an opportunity for North Korea... and NK will be a better place, and the world will be a better place for it, and Trump AND Kim will be the heroes for it.
Yes, trump did a very good job on getting american prisoners released. That's a goodwill gesture from NK. I don't have prooblem with Trump halting war games,there's nothing lost if we halt it.And if NK returns remains of US and allies soldiers,that would be big achievement for trump with their families and the countries. And the only major concern is hugh investment in NK. Which country will invest there is big test in itself. When Kim's family has imposed so many restrictions on their people and they are so poor and on top of that brainwashed for generations. China and SK already invest there in small sectors I guess. Its unlikely that Europeans or any other country will invest there because NK is a totally different species altogether- their leaders live in paranoia and apprehension with the entire population brainwashed. I would say only time would tell. But only main thing we should be concerned about is complete denuclearization with UN inspection. If that is achieved, trump deserves every credit for that.
JR: Fox also said so many things on obama. So, CNN is for Obama and Foxnews is for trump. We all know that. So, i guess we are done with fox,cnn here
"So, i guess we are done with fox,cnn here"
Actually, no: you should go the OTHER way: listen to ALL the sources at your disposal, and cross-reference them with each other. Removing information sources only makes one more ignorant. You have to include ALL sources, seek ALL information on an issue, so that when you form an opinion, it's an educated one.
"Actually, no: you should go the OTHER way: listen to ALL the sources at your disposal, and cross-reference them with each other. Removing information sources only makes one more ignorant. You have to include ALL sources, seek ALL information on an issue, so that when you form an opinion, it's an educated one."
Funny, well do you JR? Do you practice what you preached? Forget NK topic only,do you listen to ALL sources? MSM or fox makes your "All sources". I don't think you have or intend to. If you want to talk about CNN,please start a separate thread.
NK has $6Trillion in untapped natural resources they can’t get out of the ground and a highly disciplined cheap work force - expect to see a Foxconn fab for your iPhone there in the future
If NK prosper without the nukes, everyone will be happy and trump should take credit for destroying the nukes. A NK without nukes is world peace because a war in korean peninsula will draw in china,us and russia like it did in korean war. And Asia will have devasting effect if nuke is ever dropped on Korea. Thats why I believe trump is doing a good job in getting NK to meet at the table. An industralised NK is good for NK and its people to value democracy and their rights. Foxconn or mc donalds or steel or other industries all are welcome as long as that kim don't become paranoid about his own safety and start isolating its people again. Lets hope they choose prosperity instead of war
CNN's viewership continues to drop. You can thank the likes of Van Jones who called Trump supporters racists the night Trump won with his "White Washing" monologue. That was the last time I tuned into that station. I was disgusted after listening to that moron... Chris Cuomo and Don Lemon do a good job of pushing people away too.
MetsMan: Pls don't watch it. You don't have to. Pls use your remote to switch the channels. People who don't like fox do that,so you should do the same about cnn.
The topic North Korea is turning into a discussion on CNN,so sad! NK is more important than CNN and fox folks.
Metsman, I agree with your van jones comments. “What we saw tonight was a whitewashing!” Uh, really? The same white people in the same areas of the same midwestern swing-states voted for Obama twice. The same people. Within a 4 year span they all suddenly turned hate-filled and racist? That’s why Hillary lost? That was a surreal moment. I couldn’t believe he was saying it. Hillary was the worst candidate the Democratic Party had ever fielded. She represented to most of America the furthest we were going to let this PC/socialist/leftist experiment go. Oh, and she called half of the population “deplorable.”
lets remember - NK happened as a vestige of WW II. Korea was annexed by Japan as a colony (1910-1945). we turned around after WW II split the country at the 38th parallel and gave half to the USSR and let the 2 Koreas wage war for 3 years.. meanwhile we engaged in heavy Ariel bombardment of NK during the war. The only investment in the country was via the USSR and China - well we all know what happened to the USSR.
Skip ahead -nearly 100% of their GDP is dedicated to military spending - they have a 1.2 million member cadre military and 7.7 million reserves, it's time to close this loop and bring them into the fold beating china to the investment punch.
BlueYale the difference is Fox has 3 times as many people watching them than CNN. I wonder why... And I have used my controller. I choose not to turn on fake news. They showed their true colors since the election. Their heads have exploded multiple times.
That being said, the likes of CNN will continue to bash Trump even if he achieves what no other President has. Peace on the Korean peninsula.
"Funny, well do you JR?"
Why would I recommend it if I did not do it myself? I have even USED CNN as a link source on this forum, because I know you lefties can't disagree with it LOL.
"The topic North Korea is turning into a discussion on CNN,so sad! NK is more important than CNN and fox folks."
I agree! So what do you think of the NK agreement, BlueYale? What do you think of Trump accomplishing more (so far) than any other president regarding NK?
Metsman :I understand cnn and other MSM viewers think same about foxnews that fox is faux news,trump personal propaganda mouthpiece. Fox viewers think cnn and msm are fake news. Well this will go on and on
What can we do? Either unsubscribe cnn or change channel. I would advise Mr trump to do the same. Why waste tweets on fakenews? I mean CNN get all the attention worldwide every time he tweets about them. That will be headlines worldwide. Why give them that attention if you don't like it and it's fake?
JR: I said trump achieved so far in releasing americans,convincing NK to return the remain of allies soldiers and bringing Kim himself to the table to talk. The main point of NK- rest of denuclearization is to been seen. Its a long road ahead. If you want my opinions on NK, its all over this thread. I am signing off.
Switch off to, unsubscribe or change channel. Plain and simple
I'm pretty sure you'll find a hell of a lot more bullsh*t news articles from CNN than you will see from Fox. That's why their ratings continue to plummet.
How is "Fake News" fake when you hear it straight from the mouth or ever-changing stories and Tweets of him?
"I'm pretty sure you'll find a hell of a lot more bullsh*t news articles from CNN than you will see from Fox. That's why their ratings continue to plummet."
While I agree there is truth to that statement... the people didn't vote for Trump because HE started calling the MSM fake news, they voted for him because the people ALREADY knew that, Trump just said what they were thinking/feeling. Ditto on many of his campaign promises. That's how people get elected. CNN and leftist cronies (like Mauer, Kimmel, and Behar) try to convince people that Trump himself came up with the term "fake news", to use that as some kind of a "weapon" against him (NONE of their "weapons" have worked yet!), but he did not coin the phrase. It was in the lexicon before Trump used it.
there are so many crazy stories that come up, it seems like every other day!! one tops the next out of his mouth, to keep your ears off the last one, about what the new one is. It is called "Wagging the dog" :
The phrase 'Wag the Dog' is used to indicate that attention is purposely being diverted from something of greater importance to something of lesser importance. Example of Use: “He's wagging the dog to keep you from discovering the truth about the car wreck.”Jan 1, 2013.
at least with CNN, you hear the voice, you see the tweets, and it's concrete.
....does FOX even play the wacko occurences by audio or hard copy pictures? withholding.
Just wanted to bump this up as I enjoy reading comments from people suffering from severe cases of TDS (Trump Derangement Syndrome).
1 week ago
I love the comment by that idiot Acosta on CNN calling Trump and Kim a bromance. You don't get more deranged than that. What is wrong with people...
How about Acosta yelling stuff to Kim during the talks. Like the talks are not sensitive enough
"I love the comment by that idiot Acosta on CNN calling Trump and Kim a bromance. You don't get more deranged than that. What is wrong with people..."
I guess that means that Obama and the Muslim Brotherhood must have been having a bromance, judging by their visits to the White House...
Obama and the Muslim Brotherhood was more than a bromance. It was a Caligula-like orgy!
This is for P LIBERAL....
I'm sorry I'm unable to call you that. For some reason I feel the name doesn't do you justice.
I for one an a Trump supporter and as you will find I am neither a hillbilly nor am I uneducated. Perhaps and this is just a suggestion, only my opinion, that possibly you could at least write one sentence that you refrain from calling Republicans names, using vulgarity, and not be so indignant with people that don't agree with you. Possible with less opinion and more facts in your rebuttal?
I love a good debate, but I also demand the facts. Now what do I mean by facts?... Well, typically a "fact" includes the normal who, what, when, where, and how information. With a very well thought out rebuttle answer. Like for example President Trump. or in your case the one that didnt win.
At any rate i really tried to follow your posts and understand exactly what it was you were trying to say. Unfortunately you lost me with the "dreams of grandeur" you were trying to pass off as facts. I believe, now again this is only my thought, that perhaps if you studied the history of politics, presidential elections, as well as all of the U.S. presidents. Especially Lincoln, I believe he will surprise you. This one area of knowledge is the most exciting it is called what "Democracy" in our great nation actually stands for
.Then more than likely you will be better equipped to respond to the dozens of people that were just as confused as I by the unsubstantiated facts you gave only supporting them by your uninformed opinions. :)
I moved on and so should you. I refuse to waste anymore time on this thread. Anybody who disrespects our friend and Canada but says North Korea's leader is an intelligent man and Pat's on the back... I will not support. The North Korean leader murders people for watching Hollywood movies while the so-called president gave attitude to the Canadian leader who is our Allied and friend. Something is seriously wrong right there again I'm not wasting my time on this thread because it's useless. Time to move on. We will have to agree to disagree. I have no respect for Trump the way he treats people and the way that he's screwing the American people and the treatment of others. It's crazy and insane heartbreaking and ridiculous. I'm not wasting my time on this particular thread.
Nothing to do with the conversation at hand but this is what I have to go through as an immigrant. One day I went to lunch with my family my children which is 4 of them. I had this horrible horrible gentleman tell me in front of my children that Trump is going to send us back two or wherever we came from and that this restaurant does not take food stamps. I'm not saying all Trump supporters are like this at all before you lose your hat but this is what me and my fellow immigrants go through this has nothing to do with the conversation but I want to bring attention to what we have to deal with. And on a side note I do not accept any assistance as a or anything of that nature and unfortunately this is one incident that I've had encountered throughout the years. I am just enjoying time with my children in my family minding my own business
Move on already then!!!!!!
I am moving on...not wasting any more time
trump trump trump
I am moving on...not wasting any more time
trump trump trump
I am moving on...not wasting any more time
You just cannot and will not give up your false claims which you think are "facts"
I was responding to charmer thank you very much and I decided to share a story that was an inappropriate from a trump supporter. Because Trump shows horrible intentions to immigrants that people thinks it's okay because he's the leader of the country
While Justin "Sticky Eyebrows " Trudeau is PM, Canada is not our ally. He, like Merkel, is a traitor to his own people. I am thankful that Trump sees them for what they are and will not allow them to continue to take advantage of the US.
Jym so let me get this right you think the North Korean leader is a great person like Trump said?
Well charmer you are wrong. You are very wrong. You know my kind? And I did vote !! Heck yeah I voted I voted for the Democrat Party. We need to go Democratic way. There's no way in heck I would not vote and have trouble with his crazy loonies and office. And I am illegal and I do have children so that just shows you that you're wrong. Your name is charmer you should change it because there's nothing Charming about you. And I know you're kind to your party the one who are the silly Trump ad that was made in China LOL seriously you don't know anything about me and my family except that I'm standing up for immigrants and how they're treated
I'll even show you my paperwork just to prove you wrong. It's people like you who make the world a sad place. Pardon my mistake I am legal and if you would like to meet in a public place I would love to show you my paperwork
PS S... Youre English has improved drastically in the last 30 min. Ghost writer? lol
@PL " And I am illegal and I do have children so that just shows you that you're wrong. "
Ok....so you are illegal?
No to be honest with you I found out on my phone you can do the text to talk. But seriously if you're interested if you would like to meet in a public place I would love to show you my paperwork to prove you wrong because I have nothing to hide. So your allegations are false
And I will share my story with you as well as the many other stories I know from other immigrants. I would love to share it with you and others were interested
You know what the more I've been thinking about it I want to make a public apology for my curse words and my name calling I still don't like or agree with Trump or the people who support him but I should have held back on my curse words and name-calling so you know what I do a publicly apologize I think is the word that I'm looking for apologize? I have to look that word up. I still feel like Trump should be doing more for immigrants but I should have said it in a non name-calling way and I am sorry for that
Pl- After a few days of thought, I have come to the conclusion you don't know any better. As you say you have only been in this country since Obama was in office. You have no "real" knowledge of our culture. You are comparing Trump to Obama because that's all you know. You haven't lived worked or voted through any prior US Presidents. So everything you read you believe true because you have not experienced years and years of freedom and democracy. If you had, you would not present yourself as you do. There are many PL on this site. But none come across the way you do with your words. Yours are very nasty and vulgar. I don't think that's you talking. But I think it's what you read and assume it's acceptable by society to be so vulgar towards a sitting president and your fellow citizens. You have every right not to support Trump and I have no plans on trying to change your mind. If you want others to hear you and respect your thoughts and feelings, do so in your own words and don't copy the way others express themselves. It's very ugly.
Aunt read up top I did Apologize for my vulgar and name-calling I'm just very passionate I guess and when people say that I'm here illegally when it's not true kind of makes me angry but again I did apologize for name-calling and curse words
"And I am illegal and I do have children" what happened to your offer to fax documents? guess the guy in the restaurant was correct.
" I'm standing up for immigrants" - no your demanding us to ignore your criminal behavior and that of those like you. If an American citizen commits a federal crime they are going to prison without their kids why should people coming into the country illegally get better treatment
Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
build the wall
No, PL, that's not what I said. I am not a fan of Kim Jong Un. But neither do I trust Trudeau, Merkel, et.al. I don't see everything and everyone in the black and white terms like that. But I was and continue to be disgusted by the way the US became the world bank and toilet. I appreciate some of the changes Trump has made to fix that. Unfortunately, no one is perfect. But there was no way I could see to vote for Hillary and I hope that we never become like modern Europe and Canada.
I offered to fax no one took me off on that where offer I would prefer to meet in public though so I get my personal information not all over
I even have a passport! Could not do that if you are illegal. But seriously if you feel the need I would love to meet up with you show you my paperwork or my passport and I would like to have a conversation about my life and the life of my fellow friends if your interested let me know we can meet over coffee my treat. The laws have to be changed my personal feeling what are you doing this weekend you want to meet for coffee? I would love to get to meet some friends and share my story and show you my passport.
Thank you for your support reasonable I've noticed that too but I'm so used to getting made fun of by people that it doesn't even bother me much anymore but you're right. It saddens me that people think that I'm not here legally because I'm not like them but I really am and I took the citizen test and I probably know more from taking that test that many people but thank you for your support
"I refuse to waste anymore time on this thread."
You keep using that word, "refuse". I do not think it means what you think it means.
I will meet anybody in person for over a cup of coffee my treat charmer Skippy since you two seem to be the most not believing me let's meet up this weekend for coffee. I can show you that I'm legal that I'm not taking any assistance and that him and normal human being just like you with thoughts and feelings. And have the same goals that they just want to raise their family and a nice place and have their friends safe and have their basic needs met just like you do for your family. Skippy you said that I didn't offer to fax anything I'm telling you I am inviting you so you can see who I am so I can prove to you and charmer that you are wrong. I would love to share my stories with anybody who's interested you would just be amazed you really would and I think you would gain a lot of knowledge. Open invitation for anybody coffee on me
To answer Proud Liberal why Trump isn’t kissing our allies butts… That’s because they screw us in trade agreements. He wants something fair and they’re all crying about it like spoiled children. He’s being nice to Kim because he’s trying to get the guy to get rid of his nukes. How soon people forget he was calling him little rocket man and said NK would be obliterated if they made a bad move. You know what, so far that rhetoric has worked out. Kim decided he wanted to negotiate. So we’ll see where this goes, but if Kim doesn’t follow through don’t expect Trump to be nice.
Jefferson that was the case but when charmer and Skippy came back on saying these horrible horrible horrible things and they are truly truly truly wrong and I would like to prove it to them so they learn and so they can see that they are wrong and educate them that is all
Everyone take a deep breath, or better yet take break and go out and enjoy the sunshine for at least a few minutes? It's a really beautiful day out. Political views aren't reasons for anyone to 'hate' someone else, or get that worked up over. It's JUST politics... nothing more. We all need to remember that sometimes... maybe?
(Just my 2 cents.)
If you say you’re legal I believe you - you said you were not hence the post. If you came here legally more power to you
+1 Rebecka. But to be fair and truthful, PL did start this whole mess, with her potty mouth.
Jefferson did you not read my apology. And how about the people who attacked me saying that I'm here illegally when I'm not. And when I try to prove it to them all of a sudden they disappear? Like Skippy said that I offered to fax but I didn't fax well in order to fax something over I would need a fax number correct? Or I prefer to meet in person to make sure my information is not getting around so I am really just proving them wrong. And there was a horrible memes about me being an immigrant posted and also I've been attacked and accused of being on public assistance? So what do you have to think about that is it because I'm an immigrant that those things are okay? Do you have done to me
I may have had a potty mouth but I've also been verbally attacked with pictures of immigrants and horrible things saying I'm illegal and I am on assistance when I'm not none of those things are true
Thank you Skippy yes my post I made an error and they won't let you edit unless it was last post on the thread that's why I had to State it in my second thread
I said you STARTED it, which you did. Kind of hard to have sympathy for someone having stones thrown at them when they were the first one throwing.
This firestorm was of your making. Next time, maybe think before you type to ensure you aren't starting another one? Just friendly advice.
I think delusions exist because perception is encompassing reality.
Take; for example, the POTD. When he says everything is great or he gives it a 10, what do you think he means? Does he like to fight? Does he like chaos? Is it great because it means he's getting his way, maybe messing with his enemies? Does it mean it's great because he ruined something he doesn't like, in order to rebrand it and to have it done his way?
Maybe great to him, is building a mountain of corpses to rule upon his way. Or, maybe not.
Point is, you can't know unless you use Quantum Physics techniques to measure his electrical brain patterns that operate on a quantum level, and translate that quantum entanglement going on in the brain into something that could be interpreted into language.
In my perspective, he's going against a group of people that gave him a hard time. Doing business with people that were being punished by these groups. Punishing people that were probably in his view stealing with all these "bad deals".
It reminds me of the cycle of societies. It's almost done exactly like farming on plots of land.
@JR - PL apologized. You have to respect anyone who has the courage to say publicly, "Sorry, I was wrong." Forgive and forget, I say, and go get some sun. Now. All of you. ;-)
LOL you are right about one thing Jefferson about not swearing my first post that's the only thing I drive my husband about is sports teams he likes the Yankees I like the Mets so we have friendly competitions about that LOL we do have friendly bad son whose team wins the other person has to do the dishes
As a working mother in this country I worry about "home" first. The children and adults that live here are my concern. Not helping illegals. I see homeless people, I see my child's friends come to my home to eat because they are low on food. I see people losing their jobs, I see homes being repossessed, I see my child's classmates in shelters..All here in my backyard... So no, your story didn't enlighten me because I don't care.
If, which i doubt, but lets say if you are legal why not do everything in your power to accumulate yourself and your family to the ways of the USA.
You have been here quite sometime, but yet you haven't learned to read or write English, what have you done for your community, do your children know English, do they know the history? I'm saying this because all I hear from you is Trump this and Trump that? You're facts are not facts, Remember we here in America value knowledge.
I tried in my first post to speak to you in kind, but for me I am no longer charming when I hear someone put down my country and say they only care about illegals. If you care that much perhaps you should go to wherever you are from and help at home. That is unless my country offers too much for free for you and you would rather bash my president and my people. You are not a citizen, I dont need to see your green card. Marriage doesn't make you a citizen so save it for someone who cares.
I am not, will not, and have never been a follower who is politically correct. Why do I have to hide the fact that No, I dont give a rats behind about any criminals.
I lived overseas many years ago and my family didnt have the luxury of having time to learn the customs. One month you learn the language or you were ignored. They didnt bend for us, we accumulated to them or else we were screwed.
She apologized alright... on her 54th post. LOL
I'll give her the benefit of the doubt... future actions will speak louder than words...
Not that I feel like I owe you an explanation but I will share with you. I'm not in any assistance in fact all three of my older children go to a private school which we pay fully and for. I went through college got my associate's and will be taking more classes in the fall. When my 2 year old is old enough she will also attend the private school that we fully pay for. I was an American citizen before I met my husband so I debunked that yes I learned a new word reading this thread by the way. I volunteer at my churches soup kitchen and before I had my children I worked full-time but now I'm a full-time stay-at-home mother while my husband works full-time and no we do not accept any type of assistance but we do give to Charities locally and monthly we donate to the food pantry. I did take ESL classes before I went to college but as I struggled with some learning issues my English is not perfect and I'm still learning and yes my children know English they were born here and they continue to learn at their prestigious private school. So those horrible allegations you said about me are wrong just to let you know I think I answered all your questions I will go back and reread it though. I teach my children about helping and being kind to others especially the less fortunate and my children give away 10% of their allowance to a charity of their choosing. Monthly so I think I'm doing a good job being American mother.
Apparently you didn't read my first post a few up from that one you showed. Also if you read the post you quoted. It clearly states the reason I chose to speak like that.
Continue to skim the posts knowledge is power... :)
my bad Jefferson I didnt see it until my post posted... No worries Ill go back to my charming self now :)
PL well at least you like the Mets. You get to suffer with me with how bad they are.
No no... my post was directed at Yosemite Sam. I should say specifically who I'm talking to...
I wonder if they become close, if KJU will cease from k-illing his own family and staff.
from what I have heard, some of the immigrants get upset with the laws here and how we inforce them. You knew very well before coming into this country of the laws and how we inforce them. It’s been this way for years, it was even worse back then to get in. If you even had so much of a red eye they would not let you come to America, but the laws have changed a lot and made it easier for immigrants to come to the us legally, yet thousands of immigration come here and then complain about how the us is run, no one is making you come to the us illegally, people is doing that on their own accord. Yet I always hear complaints. It’s the immigrants actions, either come here legally and enjoy the American lifestyle or get booted back to where ever you are from, and that’s no ones fault but the illegals that come here. It’s the law, it’s there for a reason, it’s not there for anyone to just think they can go above it. Just by doing that proves how much respect people have for America, little to none. If they just throw this law out the window who is to say they are throwing other laws out the window. And I’m not saying all immigrants come here illegally, many of them do the correct thing and follow the law, but others seem to not know right from wrong and only want to do what they want to do no matter the consequences and then complain about it when it was their decision in the first place
And for the record I am charmers daughter:)
What's going on? Why won't anyone meet with Proud Liberal for coffee?
Isn't this something that we'd like our president to do and most importantly isn't it a civil way, the right thing to do?
"Why won't anyone meet with Proud Liberal for coffee?"
Because nobody wants to hear a tyrant of fabricated information and listen to how bad ILLEGAL immigrants are treated? PL's posts clearly showed her mindset....she reads right past any factual information on the forum, I am sure it would be no different person to person so it's not even worth the time.
Maybe because she's not being very nice. How about she drops the racism rhetoric and sounds more reasonable. No one needs third degree burns from her throwing her coffee in their face because she decides to have a breakdown.
It was just a question. Might be surprised how civil people can be when they are not at a keyboard...
It's easier for them to believe what Fox News tells them about immigrants when they don't actually know any
Proud Liberal said she was legal and charmer then proceeded to tell her she should be in jail, she's "seen her kind", that she's on food stamps, given free insurance, and that she somehow was given a free house (that's my favorite).
I wasn’t referring to Proud Liberal but rather your (and others) general comments on how we are anti “immigrant”. I don’t care how nice someone may be, if they are here illegally that’s a crime.
Reasonable....to be fair...PL also claimed (it seems unintentionally) that she was here ILLEGALLY, and that she and her family is on food stamps....just read through the posts
Went through the whole thread, in 7 different posts she states that she's legal, passed a citizen test, etc. and in 1 post she typed she was illegal (assumed to be accidental) and in her next post, corrects the mistake. You really weren't sure?
"Proud Liberal said she was legal and charmer then proceeded to tell her she should be in jail, she's "seen her kind", that she's on food stamps, given free insurance, and that she somehow was given a free house (that's my favorite)."
Which was SO MUCH WORSE than all the crap PL said above (apology or not).
Please. If you're going to dish it out, you have to be willing to take it. No double-standards, despite what you're used to. If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen.
Reasonable I clearly saw she said she’s legal, that isn’t the issue. She’s coming on here calling people who voted for Trump racists. I voted for Trump and I know I’m not racist. I’ve had relationships with women of a different race so I take offense to that. That’s as bad as Hillary calling us all deplorable. How’d that work out for her? The left continues with that rhetoric and people are tired of hearing it because it simply isn’t true. There are people who are racist on both sides. You really think some of the inner city democrats of color aren’t racist at all? Cmon… White people aren’t the only race that can be racist...
Being a Trump voter, probably white, and I'm guessing either a conservative or moderate, you don't have the privilege of being offended.
Yes JeffRep, saying racist remarks is so much worse than calling people out for saying those racist things. Is that really up for debate?
If you'd care to read the thread, you'd see PL was the FIRST person calling others racist.
I will not allow the double-standard from you or anyone else go unchallenged.
Reasonable... you are being pretty unreasonable and not following the chain of events properly.
Yawn....okay...North Korea anyone?
Not much more to say... we'll just have to wait and see how it plays out. Fingers crossed.
Oh... Trump HAS been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize, BTW.
I am telling you, Metsman, I said it yesterday- StrangerD is "transitioning".
I'm not sure what he's changing into, but it will be a doozy for sure.
Trump. Has been nominated. For the Nobel Peace Prize.
Ok I did not know that. Obviously I don't follow the news that closely.
Oh what the heck, Obama was given it before he even did anything, right? So why not, I suppose...
Holy crap my head is spinning now.
Trump and 330 other people have been nominated thus far this year. Trump was nominated by two anti-immigrant Norwegian politicians. The nomination process is pretty loose, to put it mildly.
"The nomination process is pretty loose, to put it mildly."
So must the awarding process be, if Obama got it for basically nothing:
"reaching out to the Muslim world"
"promotion of nuclear non-proliferation" (Iran deal, anyone? HAHAHA)
"So must the awarding process be, if Obama got it for basically nothing...."
Couldn't agree more as far as the "peace prize" goes. Physics and Chemistry are the only two I have any interest in.
Loose nomination policy (and awarding policy, in Obama's case) indeed. I would just wish anyone being nominated or awarded (right, left, center or from the moon) would actually have accomplished something before "Nobel Prize" gets thrown around, that's all. Trump may indeed deserve the prize if denuclearization is accomplished, but it's a little bit early to tell!
And he has since passed, but I was actually friends with a Nobel Prize winner. I just think it "cheapens" the prize if people are nominated or awarded without concrete accomplishments.
RIP Bob. You are remembered by the world for the prize you won, but remembered by those of us who knew you as the most humble, gentle and caring of men.
"Since the 1970s researchers have understood that the role of the innermost layer of blood vessels, the endothelium, goes beyond protection. In 1980 Robert Furchgott showed that the ability of blood vessels to contract or expand disappeared if the endothelium was removed. He concluded that a substance that causes expansion was formed in this layer. In 1986 he and Louis Ignarro, independently of each other, demonstrated that this substance was nitrous oxide (NO). The discovery has made possible new medications, such as those used to treat heart and cardiovascular diseases and impotence."
So, he's ultimately the one to blame for all the boner meds? Lived to the ripe old age of 93, too. A life well lived, it seems.
You got it! (And the same meds perhaps more importantly went to help peoples' heart conditions.). But now all you guys know whom to thank for your Viagra! ;-)
At least he did something good to get nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize. Kudoes to him for that! And I give him that, if things work out soon and in the long run!
On his bad side of the coin, next to see if he gets fined in any of his many defendant lawsuits, or dethroned , or wind up in jail, or impeached........that is if he doesn't attempt to use a "Criminal Pardon" on himself and a good part of his staff! what the hell is going on in this world?!?? you commit a crime, you pay, you don't pardon yourself, your lawyer, your right-hand man and many others on your staff. Don't make me ill.
some didn't want Hillary, but what the hell did his Apprentice fans vote into Head Office? UGH!!
Whitehouse responds to separating families at the border with quotes from American families being permanently separated from their loved ones murdered by illegal aliens.
There is no evidence we are treating anyone cruelly. Adults arrive here undocumented and can’t even prove these kids belong to them. The separation of the children from the adults is also for the children’s safety. The kids are getting 3 hots and a cot, along with video games and other donations - which is more than our homeless vets are getting.
"And he has since passed, but I was actually friends with a Nobel Prize winner. I just think it "cheapens" the prize if people are nominated or awarded without concrete accomplishments."
Agreed. But then, we give out "participation trophies" and play sports games without keeping score now.
I wonder when the NFL will quit keeping score?
"Lived to the ripe old age of 93, too. A life well lived, it seems."
it looks like for him the No (Nitric oxide) actually worked well. Good blood flow is good for a long life. (reducing stress also works wonders). Interesting to know and you can increase the level of No (Nitric oxide) in your blood by eating right and using a simple to make stack of vitamin supplements.
No (Nitric oxide) can be increased in the the blood stream by consuming foods that contain a lot of arginine. Asparagus and watermelon both have naturally high levels of arginine, so eat up.
Taking magnesium , zinc and B6 together (you can add an arginine supplement to this as well) will greatly increase the levels of No (Nitric oxide) in the bloodstream,
Weight lifters have known this for a long time, I pass it along to you all for your own use.,
So back on topic - Re: North Korea
We'll see what we see, the ground is set for historic and beneficial, positive changes on the Korean peninsula.
The potential upside of this is too good to ignore or dismiss just because you don't happen to like President Trump. So stop it already with the baseless racism charges, the nonsensical hate filled rants, why not give the guy credit for something positive?
".that is if he doesn't attempt to use a "Criminal Pardon" on himself and a good part of his staff! "
Sigh. He'd have to actually be indicted first, AND found guilty I think, in order to use a Presidential pardon on himself. Let's stick to things that have ACTUALLY HAPPENED instead of hypotheticals.
I mean, hypothetically, Obama could run again, win, and let the Muslim Brotherhood take over America like they have the UK. "what the hell is going on in this world?" LOL
Let me add to that - you can’t indict a sitting president. He would need to be impeached and then charged and then pence would need to do it akin to ford / Nixon. He can however pardon himself in advance but it makes no sense to do so as it’s admitting guilt
How are many of his staff are charged with things and soon/ on trial and/or in jail, and he doesn't know a darn thing about anything at all (!) and what they are charged for? Would they do things w/o his okay, concerning him. pleeze. lol.
He's told sooo many lies, you can't believe any words that come out of his mouth.
I do give him a lot of credit for the NK meeting. Let's hope something(s) come good out of it, now and forever.
"The kids are getting 3 hots and a cot, along with video games and other donations - which is more than our homeless vets are getting."
So why are our homeless vets not getting any help?
Is it the Republicans or the Democrats not helping the vets who put their lives on the line for Americans?
Would these vets been better off having "heel spurs?"
My guess is that we have been involved in a war continuously for the last 27 years and there are an overwhelming amount of veterans - I think both parties need to make veterans a priority they have been treated as disposable by numerous administrations both republican and Democrat. To use a JITism - republicrats have failed them
The law is pretty clear on the matter. The POTD can be sued in civil court within scope of the written law. Congress would have to choose to impeach, which could only be based on written reasons for impeachment as written in the law. And, according to Congress, it would only impeach if members felt like it. So, theoretically a POTD could commit an act which is impeachable, but Congress could choose to ignore/resist it. Though, I don't think Congress could legally choose to overlook the matter.
And, members of the Legislature branch both the House and Senate, should only ever enact the will of the majority of people in their State they represent. So, if you got your party elected, you call your elected official, and tell them you voted for them if you did. And, what you think on matters. Otherwise, they will just do whatever they want or what a Ranking member orders them to carry out or what some wealthy group wants that told them what they thought on matters.
And, in regards to Racism there are billions of people that think they are better than others. Just by them being more than others: more wealthier, more intelligent, more attractive, more religious, being of the proper religion, etc. I would even bet there are people in this world that wouldn't consider you "Human" if your ancestors mixed with Neanderthals.
And, slavery/racism isn't new a concept that only affects one race at a particular moment. It affects every race of people at the same time. It's also deeper than that. It's genetic. To preserve one's genetic code. It's survival.
I don't have a strong viewpoint on racism. When I see people talking about themselves, their race or another race by a color I tend to believe those people are being racist.
Nothing you have noted is an excuse.
Neither party has ever solved this issue and neither party ever will. It costs money.
Bottom line is if you want to keep your body intact you avoid the armed services as a career with "heel spurs" or something like that. Or take the risk.
Don't depend on Republicans nor Democrats to take care of you when you are hurt.
Don't expect the American public to even say nice things about you when you come back, like in Vietnam.
Don't expect after you have been shot down and were a prisoner of war to be respected by the American public like John McCain.
Your chances are 50/50 you will be loved or hated, but your body may now be less than 100%.
It's the choice of the individual. To each their own.
Can one be racist against someone who is on food stamps? I apologize, this would be class discrimination.
Not up on those social terms. Sorry.
Did not know the expectation was that I provide an excuse - you asked me why I believe it is occurring. And you’re correct - we have not had a draft in 45 years - one sure way to avoid issues is not to participate. The military is a means to an end for many and consider the benefits such as free education and social mobility to be worth the rewards, however, we have thousands of not millions of broken disabled veterans who have been abandoned by our government.
Agreed with Hackresident. First it was nobody in campaign met with Russians or Russian ambassador,then it was well they met and it is about Russian adoption and backchannel to to talk about Syria crisis. Now, trump says witchhunt and refuses to be interviewed by Mueller while his own lawyers admitted he wrote Don jnr letter. And now he wants to pardon everyone and himself. He is the epitome of truthfulness and honesty and needs a Nobel prize for most truth spoken.
Most shocking point is today trump and Rudy sent a direct message to Manafort: "Hang in there,don't speak about trump cos I am going to pardon everyone who worked for my campaign prosecuted by Mueller at end of investigstions".
Why would trump and Rudy go all over fox and other news channel to talk about pardoning everyone including manafort on the DAY Manafort goes to jail? It reflects a lot about his innocence. Manafort is being sent to jail for witness tampering and why does trump feel sad about him as he said on TV,why feel sad about a man who work for him(he claims 45days) investigated for fraud and witness tampering that he and his spokeperson cum lawyer Rudy already talking about pardoning Manafort? Next is cohen. Why would trump do that in such a hurry? We all know Manafort can speak on trump tower meeting. Trump says he is a president of law and order. Well law and order don't apply to him and his campaign aides and team. They are above law,anyone in my team goes to jail,I will pardon him(trump says it before the case even begin).
Trump WH aides' and lawyers' declarations timeline order
1)No communication with russia
2)No communication *we are aware of*
3)No *planned or formal* communication
4)Planned meeting but not regarding campaign but adoption of kids
5)Was regarding campaign but no good or useful information
6)Trump never knew about the meeting until it broke in media
7)Colluding with foreign nationals is not crime as it's opposition research
8)Trump dictated letter about Russian kids adoption aka opposition research on HRC with Russians
9) trump can shut down any investigation against him and has authority to directly fire Mueller
20) Even if crime happened, trump has authority to pardon himself or anyone related to his campaign.
This speak of the VOLUME OF THE INNOCENCE PRESIDENT OF USA TO THE WORLD AND ALSO SPEAKS ABOUT OUR COUNTRY WHICH HE TURNED INTO BEST RATED BANANA REPUBLIC THAT HAS BECOME A REALITY SHOW ON Twitter
The Yale: THANK YOU. You say it as it happened, and how it REALLY IS, this bull crap of it all.
Let him be supenoned by every "Mueller" there is for every case and issue against or about him, and let him lie (perjury), or let him tell the truth, which he never will. Would rather keep dodging the kickball with a new Guiliani every few months.
I wouldn't be surprised that he and his lawyer Cohen and Manafort were told by him to not say anything derrogatory and the real truth about what occurred, then they can still get fined and thrown in jail, and then he probably said to them that he will Pardon all of them during the witness tapering phone calls that put Manafort in a holding jail.
We should all commit those crimes (and i'm sure there are Many more we aren't aware of yet until the detectives piece together Cohen's shredded documents and get more documents of what happened in that Russian meeting! (yeah, "a Russian Adoption.....") and then write to Ms. Kim Kardashian to get us out of the slammer with a Pardon!
Again, thank you Yale. I admire that you give the facts and tell it like it is. There's a lot more of us out there, some too afraid and quiet to comment.
Hackresident, you say thank you to The Yale for speaking the truth when what you really mean is for agreeing with your liberal bias. If you two think you know so much about Trump collusion why not apply for a job on Mueller's team where it might do some good instead of wasting your liberal blather here on the Forum.
We will never know the real truth about any of it.
Lawyers stacked on top of lawyers- best liars on the planet.
Let's just say that all of these muppets, democrat and republicans, don't care one bit about the middle class and will send you down the river in a heartbeat.
Both sides are overfilled with skeletons in their closets.
You know where there WAS collusion?
Collusion to rig the democrat primary to keep Bernie from having a chance, even tho he was more popular than Hillary.
Collusion with the FBI to insure Hillary won the general election.
The only collusion revealed by the Muller investigation so far is that high ranking members of the FBI coordinated and worked with elements of the Hillary campaign and Russian intelligence to affect the outcome of a presidential election.
Manafort's indictments predate his association with Trump and have no relation to the 2016 election.
Trump is doing the job he was elected for, and he is getting results and stacking up significant accomplishments on a daily basis. This is good for America.
Too many lies and twists to have the desire to get into his circle, just to get supenoed like Trump's beautiful Model spokeswoman got (I forget her name and her title, but she got the job because she was friends with Ivanka). Now an young, pretty Actress got the job...........
To explain a bit fuller: Manafort's indictments are for alleged actions that predate his association with the Trump campaign and have no relation to the 2016 election.
Manafort got hauled into prison for contacting a witness against him.
Also in fairness, Manafort was a Democrat, working for the Podestas, at the time of the crimes he was originally charged with.
To the extent that the indictment is an attempt to extort him into attacking Trump, the prosecution is politically motivated, unfair, and highly suspect, and should probably be dismissed. But that has nothing to do with his contacting a witness after being charged which is moronic
I think you're finally answering my question skippy. No matter any evidence, indictments, charges, etc. that may arise, Republicans and the right will see any movement against Trump as politically motivated, conspiracy, deep state, Democrats angry they lost, etc.
BC: I never said trump is guilty of anything! Why do you slur people who don't agree with your views as liberals! I am not a liberal,never was! I believe nobody is above the law-NOBODY! DO YOU DISAGREE WITH THAT?
THOSE WORDS I HAVE WRITTEN in my previous comments are ALL spoken words by trump,Rudy and WH aides. My words are last paragraph regarding the banana republic we have become.If anyone wants to refute the 10 timeline as fake can do so with appropriate proofs. I am here for healthy debate,not arguments without democrats and republicans pointers.
Mr trump went on TV to say paul Manafort has been unfairly treated, why would he say it for someone charged with money fraud and witness tampering (nothing to do with trump or Russian collusion issue) on the day Manafort is sent to jail (a man he claimed to be employed for only 45days)?When asked he would pardon him, he didn't say he wouldn't and said it's too early to say anything. But he sent out Rudy on several networks to say trump would pardon everyone related to his campaign at end of MUELLER investigstions! Isn't that interfering with the investigstions?Why would an innocent man so restless to pardon everyone on his team charged by investigators? Is asking this question make me liberal? Or should I just shut up like you and watch the trump show what rudy and he says next and just watch? So are these liberals views too, trying to defame trump? I never mentioned a word about collusion or indicated as such. The timelines and statements(1 to 10) can be verified through videos and press statements given by WH or campaign aides,RUDY and trump.
Don't try to put that excuse of liberal thing down my throat! I never said anything against trump. All I did was quote him! He EXONERATED himself on Twitter and declared he could pardon himself again on Twitter. NEVER HEARD OF AN INNOCENT MAN EXONERATING AND PARDONING HIMSELF BEFORE BEING CHARGED,HAVE YOU?
P.S: Me and HackResident don't need to apply for Mueller's team jobs like most Americans and rest of world get the same informations from Trump's Twitter and interviews on Fox, Rudy's interviews on all TV channels and Sarah Sanders press briefings. These are the information sources over time from where I quoted my previous comments. I didn't know you filter information out from Trump's, Rudy's, Sarah's briefing but they are NOT LIBERALS
Nothing is politically motivated, any of this Mueller investigation wouldn't have started if trump had not asked Comey to drop(which Comey claim he did) and next day talked on TV to talk about firing Comey because Russia investigations is getting too much. If Manafort is a Democrat, why did trump hire him for running the campaign of republican presidential campaign, wasn't it about draining the swamp and purging?
Mueller is doing his job he was appointed to, if he uncovers Manafort committed money fraud,tax fraud before he came to campaign,do you mean he should just let it go?Why? Because Mueller is slurred and accused of manipulating Manafort? What is in the book of law is being done by Mueller by bringing up a tax fraud case against Manafort. Trump claimed manafort worked for him for 45 days, why would he and Rudy go out on camera talked about unfair and pardoning everyone for a man who probably have nothing damaging on trump cos he worked for 45days only? Why would trump damage his own reputation and credibility of innocence by claiming unfair on the day Manafort goes to jail? The judge must have seen enough evidence than we have to come to conclusion. Why smear her for political purposes. The only thing doing around media is Manafort hasn't spoken about Don knr meeting lasting 5-10 minutes,he doesn't have to speak on that. Nobody in this world could force him to. After all Rudy is saying all over TV trump is going to pardon everyone to clean up Mueller investigations? Why do smear Mueller? He investigated something,but uncovered another crime, should he have let it go just like that? Because people will accuse him of leveraging to use that for flipping people? Well, Manafort doesn't need to flip if there was nothing useful offered and taken in Donald jnr meeting, but he is supposed to face trial for his previous tax fraud crime and face sentence if convicted. If there's nothing wrong done in the meeting of 5-10 minutes,there will never be any evidence admissible in court even if Mueller dig up till the core of the earth.
We do live in a banana republic I’ll give you thst
Manafort's crimes, and there apparar to be many, have nothing to do with Trump.
Obama said Hillary had done nothing wrong while the investigation was ongoing. Presidential sized thumb-on-the-scale. Crickets...
Trump says anything about the ongoing investigation and everyone in the establishment screams that he's interfering and "sending signals".
Comey's team allowed Hillary's co-conspirators to sit in on her interview and none of them were in jeopardy.
Hillary's It guy was given immunity, and he lied under oath and they didn't then squeeze him for all he was worth to further the investigation. Wasted immunity.
The IRS targeted conservatives and the bureaucrats paid no penalty.
Clear pro-Hillary bias among the FBI investigators into Hillary's foundation and email system and anti-Trump bias in the fake collusion bit - that is now suddenly an "obstruction of justice" case about firing Comey. This is even though everyone agrees he should have been fired and it was recommended by Rosenstein.
Comey listed Hillary’s crimes then said “No reasonable prosecutor” would indict her even though many said they would.
IG report just released lists volumes of clear signs of bias and the clear actions taken proving bias, then lies and in summary says there is no evidence that their bias affected the investigation. There is no real justice going on here.
My answer to the question: If trump is not criminal why did he hire a criminal?
Is a question
If mueller is not biased and attempting a coup why did he hire people who said they will stop trump presidency?
Well mueller fired them.. So did trump.
This has nothing to do with his role in the campaign. The current charges are of his own doing.
Personally I hope he gets religion and pulls podesta et all further into this. People deserve go to jail for crimes. Nobody is above the law - the partial application of justice in this whole saga is a disgrace to the nation
How many of his "Great People" have been fired by him? Or quit. Can you imagine having a Government Job and accumulating retirement, and then you work with this one, and you get fired, and can't collect your pension now or it's cut down?
His promises at election time were unrealistic. He was going to get down the USA's debt, yet we are many trillions (?) or billions more in debt now. Why? lol, if he's a good businessman (who hires contractors and then doesn't pay then, then uses their work in earning money on his many Casinos and skyscrapers and buildings in NY!!!
Building a wall would cost billions. We don't have it. Don't promise and state that Mexico said they would pay. They didn't. Don't LIE LIE LIE LIE.
Didn't he get off the ownership of one of the Beauty Pagents because he did something degrading to some of them? He called one of the ones that won Fat after she gained 10-20 pounds. What a jerk. Has he looked in the mirror?
He called Rosey Odonell a Fat Pig; that female reporter, he said that she had blood coming out of her "whatever". what kind of person is this??!
What else did he say to degrade women and men in the public eye? he is a BULLY and shouldn't have been voted into office with his Unrealistic promises and by his fans. Just listen to CNN News and you will hear audio recordings of the s--t he comes out with and the b.s. tweets he pens, and how he says one thing, then changes it a few days later. Why play both sides of the coin? So you can't get in trouble, or you don't know what the heck he is doing? And that Scarramucci that he hired to insult the ones that he wanted out, on public television.
He does not have a Political Science background and is not qualified to be where he was voted because of the opponent that some didn't like, or the Mueller investigation messed up Hillary's upcoming win. Someday he may get supeneod or his staff will tell the truth, and he will wind up in jail or fined or impeached.
I am not into politics: I am not a Republican or Democrat, I don't follow what my spouse and friends may think. I just have OPENED MY EARS into what has been occurring the last 2 years by him and his unqualified, lying staff. MSNBC doesn't play those audios or say what all his tweets are -- CNN does.
Hey Yale, go back and re=read your post "Trump says he is a president of law and order. Well law and order don't apply to him and his campaign aides and team. They are above law, anyone in my team goes to jail, I will pardon him(trump says it before the case even begin)". If that's not accusatory rhetoric I don't know what is.
Hillary case is investigated by IG, they feel they need not opened her case. Who's stopping trump and republicans to open it and investigate it all over again? Why so much whining and crying like babies over it? Obama is not anymore president,trump is. Why not open the case by executive order? Is he afraid he won't be able to cry and whine over it once opened? If you want Hillary's IT guy, he can be extradited at snap of a finger, who is stopping the investigation? Trump and republicans have been in power for almost two years now, don't you think if they can't investigate Hillary and obama, then they should stop whining, so should you.
You never answered my questions. Do you think and agree with trump manafort has been unfairly treated and needs to be pardon(for a crime not related to trump at all)?
Everyone screams and shout when trump said he's gonna pardon everyone and himself in his campaign at end of investigations! Do you feel that's appropriate for a president to say that? Do you think it's not obstructing the investigations, how? Answer me Skippy, do you think he has rights to forgive everyone in his team and also EXONERATED himself and pardon himself? Isn't that abuse of power? Never heard of an innocent man exonerating himself and pardoning himself before being charged with anything,have you Skippy? Pls answer it.
Storz and page said that before Mueller even came to picture, so don't lie... Stop lying. They talked about it before trump even got elected,so MUELLER was never in the picture. He fired them when the text was discovered during investigation.
If trump fired Manafort for being a criminal, then why is going out of his way on TV to say Manafort has been unfay treated after firing him? I NEVER SAID MANAFORT SENTENCING HAS ANYRHING TO DO WITH TRUMP OR CAMPAIGN.
Why talk about PARDONING him(for a crime unrelated to campaign) and cohen, cleaning up Mueller investigation by PARDONING everyone?
You haven't answered that direct questions either.
I don't have time to beat around the bush,my questions are direct.
Trump has been saying a lot of outrageous things for attention, you don't have a problem with that either.
"Trump has been saying a lot of outrageous things for attention, you don't have a problem with that either."
I absolutely do not, as long as he does what he promised to do in his campaign. So far, he's fulfilling campaign promises left and right, with a start to the whole NK thing as the icing on top.
Before you dismiss this link/source as "too biased", here are a few thoughts:
-I have said over & over: look at ALL the resources you can, it's the only way to get to the truth. Because the truth is always in-bteween the lines of everyone's "take" on something
-He did not like Trump. He did not vote for Trump. He wasn't a never-Trumper, but he thought it was a really, really bad idea for Trump to be elected president (altho also that dog catcher would be better than Hillary).
-He is now a Trump supporter. Why? Because Trump is doing what very few politicians do: keep his promises representing the American people.
BC : I really don't know whether you have compreshension problem. Mr trump has been saying throughout the campaign that he will bring in law and order. That's good. But he seems to forget that when he interfered a judge's sentencing of Manafort as he went all out of his way to say that MANAFORT has been unfairly treated and Rudy claims trump will pardon everyone at end of investigations? Do you think they are respecting the law and order of the judge who sent Manafort to jail? Why do they want to butt in an ongoing investigation and judicial case which is ongoing? Isn't that going above the law?
JR: I don't care what outrageous thing trump said as campaign promises. But I care when he asked Obama to show his birth certificate. And all his dumb followers were dumb enough like him NOT to know that Obama will always be american no matter WHERE he was born cos his mother was american. Then Hillary and obama did this and that,all these whining and crying and complaining. You don't mind that too cos you also have been complaining like him too. Why the hell doesn't he resign if he can't get his doj,senators and congressmen to investigate them?It's almost going to be 2 years now and always crying on Twitter like his diaper is wet when he and his party have majority. Well build the wall, I don't mind whether he build the wall, but not on our money! He promised as campaign promise, Mexico will pay for the Wall, so let him beg or kiss their feet or serve as their servant,he should get money from Mexicans like he promised. For NK, I already congratulated him. He keeps campaign promises DOESN'T MEAN HE IS ABOVE THE LAW TO pardon everyone in his campaign who are being investigated by Mueller. He cannot EXONERATE himself nor pardon himself or his aides or his family. Keeping campaign promises doesn't give him authority to strangle investigation or constitution against him or his aides. KEEPING CAMPAIGN PROMISES DOESN'T ENTITLED HIM TO BE ABOVE THE LAW, COURT OR CONSTITUTION TO MISUSE PARDON POWER OR FIRE MUELLER DIRECTLY
AGAIN- you keep debating things that haven't happened. Why don't you wait until Trump ACTUALLY DOES this stuff you are worried about, THEN we can talk... (such as pardoning himself). And I agree he should not be above the law- neither should Hillary be for what she colluded in, nor Obama. Nor the FBI themselves.
But until Trump actually DOES something that you're suggesting, you're just wasting bandwidth. All this talk of his big mouth doesn't mean a thing.
The Yale, You stated; "Do you think they are respecting the law and order of the judge who sent Manafort to jail? Why do they want to butt in an ongoing investigation and judicial case which is ongoing? Isn't that going above the law?" and to that I say no, it's not butting in or going above the law. It's called expressing an opinion, something we all have in common and a right to.
You seem to have a problem with all things Trump. Trump could say water is wet and you would find fault. You criticize him for speaking about Manafort as if it's somehow unlawful. However, you also criticize the president for upholding the law, specifically immigration laws, of which you and I shared comments earlier in this thread. You can't have it both ways without being labeled a hypocrite. And if you're not a liberal as you say, you certainly espouse rhetoric similar to most liberals. Maybe you're just a pseudo-liberal. Either way this thread is about Korea and the recent efforts by the Trump administration to seek peace with the North. The initial meeting between Trump and Kim was a good starting point. There is more work ahead and we, as Americans, should be pulling for successful negotiations that bring peace. Many Koreans, both from the North and South want it to become a reality too. So even if you don't care about success yourself, have some empathy for those Koreans who do.
JR: Then you should also agree that he should just shut up about PARDONING everyone in his campaign and not let his DOG RUDY BARK about PARDONING everyone in the media. Cos that sends a message directly or indirectly to Manafort and Cohen that they maybe pardon if they don't cross paths with Trump. And you also agree that Hillary nor Obama colluded with anyone or did anything illegal as per Trump's own IG, well if you don't agree then you can still write to the spineless republicans in the hill why haven't they start investigating Hillary and obama?
You are NOT the one who decide that Trump can talk big talk and it doesn't MEAN A THING BECAUSE HE IS THE POTUS,every word he farts from his mouth means BIGLY, even threatening to pardon everyone. If he was a homeless beggar, you could have said what you have said,but he is POTUS and he is responsible for his words too cos this country runs on his words, threatening to pardon everyone is screwing the constitution and law of the land by hinting what he might do and affecting those who are already being investigated and facing trials. Don't you think he should just shut up for the good of everyone in his campaign, if he isn't going to act on his words?
“ Do you think it's not obstructing the investigations, how? “
No there are no requests for information denied by Trump or his legal team.
“Answer me Skippy, do you think he has rights to forgive everyone in his team and also EXONERATED himself and pardon himself?”
I think the constitution grants POTUS the absolute right to do so - the jury is still out as it were on pardoning himself but I think he would be a fool to do so as you pointed out this is poor optics - the POTUS would need to be impeached before he could be charged criminally as was discussed and if things went that far pence would pardon him ala Ford and Nixon - I did answer this before btw.
Trumps statement was designed to redirect the news cycle. Very few people think that "self-pardoning" is a thing. I think his statement was meant to get Anti-Trump people's “knickers in a knot.” And clearly it worked - He knows he has nothing to pardon himself for. He has been under surveillance for 3 years.
Meanwhile - back at the ranch - there was supposition that HRC could do the same thing
Do I feel that this SHOULD be the case legally?
Yes. Note that I am not in favor of authoritarianism. Rather, I believe that if we get to a scenario where the President pardons himself, is not immediately impeached, and retains the support of the voting public.
The onus of preventing such an act should be squarely placed in the responsibility of the representatives of the people, and the people must maintain an eternal, vigilant watch on those representatives. The day such vigilance erodes is the day democracy becomes terminal, and nothing can save that. Look to the example of Brazil as support for democracy has eroded to a minority due to the economic suffering of the region.
Those representatives have the absolute right and authority to bring forth articles of impeachment if they feel that Trump is obstructing Justice.
Just a reminder - POTUS is the chief law enforcement officer of the US and therefore cannot obstruct a DOJ investigation as the DOJ derives their power from him. He can ,however, obstruct a Congressional investigation as Congress's power is separate from and equal to him in some ways, inferior in others, and superior in yet others (checks and balances) - but yet there’s no articles of impeachment because this is a “nothing burger”.
It is the will of the electorate that Trump be allowed to continue - simple as that.
I hope that answers your questions
Is he the first pres that hasn't studied Political Science and what you need to know about the Laws(sss) of our land?
and he got on the political map by fabricating and degrading Obama that he wasn't born in the US. and his followers love that he makes fun of almost everyone in his path.
and how did Jared Kushner get a Secret clearance in the first place, and then taken away, and given back after all the omissions and lies on his application? did you hear that he wants to build about 800 townhouses or condos in East Hanover area? It's in the Morris County Daily Record a lot -- the paper didn't say it was to be build by him, until a month later. didn't he screw over a lot of his tenants in buildings that he owns in NJ/close to NY?
Ok - most presidents are not political science majors it has no bearing or relevance to the job
Meanwhile Trump was a Democrat and has been politically active since the 80s - Clinton lost three “blue wall” states — Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin — along with the 2nd Congressional District of Maine because she didn’t bother to campaign hard there and Trump did. Not to mention a lot of Bernie supporters were pissed that the DNC handed her the primary and voted for Trump.
Yeah seriously Hackresident... posting stuff from CNN is about as credible as the National Enquirer...
A citizen of a Democracy would be under the law though contract. A People of a Republican Democracy of a State would be under grace. That's how I see it.
I don't see how the President has the Authority to pardon himself. It's clearly stated in law that the POTD is immune to the courts while in Office with the exception of civil lawsuits brought against him. If the POTD is immune to courts, then in essence he can't pardon the POTD.
And to the best of knowledge anyone Impeached by Congress can't be pardoned.
yeah - constitutional scholars are up in the air about it as well. it's a complex issue.
JR: When is trump getting a Nobel prize for medicine for curing cancer?And where's the party to celebrate it?
P.S: Maybe debating realistically and healthily is not your type when you run out of alternative facts. No worry, I am good at punchlines and memes too if you wanna get there.
the left cant meme..
Democratic Platform for midterms and 2020:
-rooting for the the economy to fail
-high joblessness and unemployment
-higher taxes and lower wages for all
-promote Islamification of the west
-open borders / mass illegal immigration
I think he thinks He has the magic wand of highest power, and he's pushing every single crazy button he can, to see if he can change everything, anything, even the dumbest @$$ things. i can't keep up with the ridiculous crap that comes out of his mouth (or tweets). i'm not the only one thinking this, if you have an open mind and just listen and admit it. If Hillary did and said all these things, she'd be ridiculed, etc.
Democratic platform for 2020: UNDO TRUMP. Then again, we may not have to wait that long :) (Hurry it up, Mueller!)
Is it sad I voted for someone in a primary - a close call personally between them and their opponent - by considering which one would be more likely to vote for impeachment?
Interesting numbers given at the briefing tonight...and by the way they were quite clear about how WELL the children are being treated...now for those numbers...
So far....12,000 kids have been taken in....OF WHICH
10,000 crossed the boarder WITHOUT their parents or were SENT by their parents
2,000 were removed from their parents after they broke the LAW.
so.....10,000 parents CHOSE to be separated from their kids without even breaking the law themselves....probably knowing very well that the USA would take better care of their kids.
So everything else posted by PL and other leading up to this......MYTH!
"Maybe debating realistically and healthily is not your type when you run out of alternative facts. "
ROFLMAO! Pot meet kettle!
The truth is I just don't suffer fools anymore, it's not worth the energy required to do so.
"by considering which one would be more likely to vote for impeachment?" -alpha1beta
Impeachment for what exactly? The left keeps harping on this and it has been said multiple times over by legal experts he has done nothing that warrants impeachment proceedings to be filed. Just because you personally don't like his rhetoric doesn't mean it is grounds for impeachment.
http://www.businessinsider.com/immigration-children-diapers-2018-6. Illegal or not these are children and they're not getting the proper care when they are being separated. Children have everything to take care of children? If you're going to separate the children at least make sure they're properly cared for and use their name instead of a number
A teenage girl should not have to be changing the babies Diaper where are the adults are supposed to be supervising these children? If you're going to take them away from their parents at least make sure they're getting the basic needs met like a baby should not be sitting in a poopy diaper that's child abuse. What happens if this teenage girl was not in the same cage as his toddler would she be sitting in her own poop and urine for days? I'm sorry but this is unacceptable legal or not these are children not freaking animals.
He in higher-archy doesn't seem to care.
he said he likes commotion or something like that.
1. Poor farmers are approached by “people” who say they can get their kids into the US for a better life, but it will cost them $10K
2. Of course, they don’t have the $10K, so they hand over the deeds to their property as payment.
3. Mid-teens are trafficked to the US and put to work as slave labor. They are ostensibly paid $600 per week, but the traffickers keep $550 per week to pay for what they owe for passage.
4. The kids are kept on isolated farms where they work and live a dozen or so to a trailer. They also deposit them in public schools, but they are so dog tired from working that they can’t do anything at school.
5. Kids are told that their parents will be killed, lose their farm, or both if they make any noise about the situation.
"A teenage girl should not have to be changing the babies Diaper where are the adults are supposed to be supervising these children? " - wait it's wrong for a 16 year old to baby sit and care for younger children - oh the humanity...
Skip e-tron for the so-called supervisor of the children of these camps to not provide care for children. That is what's wrong. If you're going to take away children from their parents they should provide accurate care for these children. Illegal are not they are still children. They are human beings. So yes the supervisor should be changing diapers and caring for these babies that are being taken away from their parents. I read one article where they took away an infant while the mother was breastfeeding. I'm sorry uncalled for and Humane and if you think that's okay shame on you and I hope there's no children in your life because that would make you a horrible person. Like I said illegal or not they're still Trill dhryn and they need to be cared for. The supervisors who are supervising the children need to change diapers Feed the Children bottles. Horrible horrible horrible situation for these little guys I think I read where the youngest was 4 months. Are the supervisors beating them every 2 hours are they getting changed every 2 hours? Probably not because they don't care. And that would be child abuse
It's wrong for supervisors not to provide decent care for these children. If that 16 year old did not change the diaper would that diaper have been changed? I highly doubt the supervisors would do it. Do you think a child should sit in a diaper for days on end without being changed?
All of the smoke around him and Russia is grounds for impeachment (Impeachment, not necessarily removal). Impeachment would just guarantee we have to get to those answers and that the general public finds out the answers, not some report that goes to the DOJ. There's also grounds for impeachment on multiple fronts of obstruction of justice. Again, impeachment is just like an indictment, its a charge, not necessarily guilty in a court of law. If he weren't president, he's be awaiting trial by now.
I have no doubt there was attempted "collusion", or you know, the legal charge - treason.
And I know, you wing nuts won't agree, but just wait and see. If you are even slightly patriotic then you should be demanding answers to the Russia investigation, which is not a witch hunt, and has lead to indictments. Anyone against the Mueller investigation is a traiter, plain and simple.
With the trade deals, trade war, and NK, there's some suspicious dealings too. He's certainly the personality type to try to enrich himself at anyone's expense. Trump Tower Pyongyang will be unveiled any day now.
I want answers. I'm 99% sure those answers are that the Russia helped the Trump campaign, with their knowledge, and played the worst segments of the American population to help swing the election in his favor, both to have a president they can blackmail and/or bribe into doing their bidding as well as put an idiot in office whom they can walk all over.
Trump might as well be named Donaldov Trumposco, because he sure thinks like a Russian.
No doubt, huh alpha? Me thinks you’re mistaking suspicion for evidence. But hey, if that’s the kind of justice you want in these great United States then you should feel quite happy and content because we certainly have a lot of that ;-)
here we go - more words from the race-baiting, lying, divisive left..
The children are not only being protected from criminally abusive adults, but the conditions of these homeland security facilities are far superior to any conditions these kids have ever experienced.
Chain linked fences are not cages. They surround most American schools and countless institutions.
Easy way to solve this.
1. Stop using kids as a security blanket to come to this country.
2. freeze trade with mexico until they help stop allowing these people to cross over.
The law is the law and there are plenty of families here separated from their children because they've been murdered by illegal aliens.
Did you see any of the House hearings this morning? All you had to do was see Cummings (who began crying) and Nadler to know what the democrat HQ narrative for this week was. So mind-numbingly obvious, contrived, and repetitive.
But I'm all ears to hear why this is an actual issue and how its Trumps fault.
This administration is doing the same things as the prior administration and the one before that.. it goes back to 2002.
A 2015 ruling by a 9th circuit district court cited the Flores Decree (upon which this statute was based I believe) in finding that kids must be separated from parents who are detained for illegal entry:
here is the actual ruling..
allow me to deal with the inevitable counterargument that this only applies to “unaccompanied” children as stated in the statute - the 2015 9th Circuit ruling held that it must also apply to children who enter illegally with their families. - boom clase closed - not Trump..
You are barking at the dog whistles your media masters are giving you as is evidenced by the House hearing today
let me be clear:
The ISSUE itself isn't necessarily manufactured but it is not new. The outrage and theatrics ARE manufactured, and somehow using the issue as yet another reason n to blame Trump is manufactured.
stop being a witless puppet to the left. The weekly manufacturing of outrage is comical - there IS a time and place to debate policy and enact common sense law, including reforms. To use media to screech at opportune moments when you simply want to distract from real issues is disgusting and not the proper forum.
Talking about diaper not getting changed by the person. In charge. And who knows what really is going on behind those doors. And they're in a cage they're surrounded by Chain fence acting as a gate. I don't care if the child has black white hispanic or any other race they deserve to be treated properly diaper changed babies need to be fed every 2 hours and they're probably not my post is the care of children Nott about anything else. It's about how the children are getting treated. This is inhumane having a 16 year old child changing the infants or toddlers diaper when it should be the person who's supervising the children. This is my case this is what I have a problem with. The 16 year old should not have to do it it should be the adult in charge. Very very sad times
What happens if that older child was not in there. With a diaper of that child been changed? Probably not I don't trust these supervisors trusting good care to these kids. It doesn't matter if you're legal or illegal children are children and should be cared for
Coming to America to seek Asylum is not illegal by the way. I don't know if you knew that or not but anybody coming to America to seek protection it's legal. Also that's just an excuse to separate the kids from the parents. When the kids are crying. Please don't let them take me away you know something is up. That's just an excuse from Trump and his crazy cronies. And no it's not racist like you had stated up above Skip it's called compassionate that you don't take it like that away from a mother who's breastfeeding. That's horrible. Excuses Trump and his crazy cronies excuses tempos nothing but why and his supporters are doing fooled. The treatment of these children is inhumane and I hope people who support that don't have any children in her life cuz I'll be very sad. No child illegal or legal should be treated like this. That's my baby would probably still be in a wet diaper if it wasn't for that 16 year old girl. Where are the supervisors. Why would they not let the Senators into that camp after they said that they would be light in 5 minutes? They're hiding stuff things are being hit that they're not telling the public and it's very scary who knows what's happening to these poor children. And anybody who supports the way these children are being treated or horrible people because of baby deserves to be changed and a timely matter. Trump and stuff even said the only way he'll help the families as if he gets funding for his walk his ridiculous wall. This just shows you what kind of person he is he only does stuff when he get something he's ridiculous. He's an embarrassment. Even other countries people do not like what he's doing and he's making a fool of the United States people but really it's just him and his little followers But You Keep On Believing him and his wise if that's what makes you happy.
Whether you're left, right, or somewhat in between here's what I don't understand.
How do you get upset about people taking a knee during our national anthem but NOT get upset at the very country it is the symbol for being torn apart from the inside with corruption, anti-American policy changes, massive giveaways of our tax coffers to corporations rather than going to the schools, bridges, tunnels, and military that so badly need them.
How do you get upset about the flag being disrespected while not get upset when the very principals the country it symbolizes are being destroyed? This country was built by hard-working immigrants (and well, slaves who were forced immigrants).
If you're conservative patriotic type how do you support our country slowly being given over to our greatest enemies (Russia, North Korea) and our friends/allies being pushed away? We're being sold down the river because some guy on the other side of the world has a tape of some other guy doing bad stuff, among other things. How many lies will it take being exposed for people to see that clearly?
No matter what your views, how do you defend the United States of America keeping children in internment camps in 2018?
We're on the Hitler/Nazi plan. It all started like this back in the thirties, before they got around to the even more evil stuff. Read your history. It's no different.
Those children are getting better care now then they did in their cesspool country
These cages are the same as fences around schools? You get no credibility with arguments like that. Actually I don't see schools with fences around them, but anyway, inside those fences are acres of open ground, places to learn and play and loving adults to care and nurture kids, bathrooms and cafeterias and education materials, sports fields, comfortable furniture, on and on.
Inside these small fence cages are packed humans, no bathrooms, no food. cold hard floors paper-thin space blankets, people with guns (to shoot the occupants, not protect them) hatred and fear.
You can walk right on out of a school. Not an internment camp made for children, from fences.
Bh2 you are a hundred percent right. And also the mothers and fathers would change their children unlike the supervisor who's supposed to be watching the kids period instead a 16 year old child how to be in charge of the baby's care. At ridiculous these poor children are suffering and scary as it sounds who knows what else is going behind closed doors. And to think Skippy and others like him are okay with this just boggles my mind
"These cages are the same as fences around schools? You get no credibility with arguments like that. Actually I don't see schools with fences around them, but anyway, inside those fences are acres of open ground, places to learn and play and loving adults to care and nurture kids, bathrooms and cafeterias and education materials, sports fields, comfortable furniture, on and on."
do they have any of that stuff in there current environment? weren't we just crying that this is a war zone and they have no choice but to cross the desert?
So how many kids were taken from their parents from 2008 to 2018??? You don't actually cross a border when you SEEK ASYLUM.
And now the orange monster is going to leave the United Nations human rights seriously so sad. What the heck is wrong with the so-called president. She's making the United States look like a bully with their allies
were never going to see middle ground on this..
think this is the biggest difference between the left and conservatives...
Liberals see a parent who breaks the law and is then separated from their child, and they blame the law. Conservatives see a parent who breaks the law and is then separated from their child, and they blame the parent.
We are a democracy, and we have laws that must be followed. You don't get to choose which laws you will and will not obey, that isn't how the system works. And, if you choose to break the law, then you will suffer the consequences of that choice.
Accountability. You are responsible for the consequences of your actions. The world does not exist to accommodate you and your bad choices.
Say what you want about their "cesspool country" Philliesman, but it seems clear that these kids are loved by their parents and brought here out of love and their parents wanting a better future for them. They no longer have that love now that they are caged in internment camps in the USA. That's not better care. Go with the false stories that they're actors (like Sandy Hook?), or fake kids with fake family members (sure does seem like they're well trained to wail and cry and call these fake family members Momma and Daddy), or the older ones are MS-13 (which I'm sure if it was true they'd be paraded with their tattoos and all but we're seeing NONE of that so obviously that's BS).
Don't forget, Philliesman, unless you're a Native American, once upon a time your family members and mine were the same uneducated, talked funny, dressed funny, dirty, desperate, and often illegal immigrants coming here for a chance at something better for their children and grandchildren and ultimately that's how you and I got here. Thank God the wonderful country that we used to be gave them a chance.
That was. Notmy question skip if that 16 year old girl was not in that cage with that small baby... Would that baby's diaper been changed are they doing what they're supposed to be doing and making sure those kids are safe?
The thing I don't understand about Trump's new zero-tolerance policy that has caused this, and all the talking points about how we're a nation of laws and the laws must be enforced, is why don't those same principals apply to the daily on-camera breaking of laws by the President, his family, and the administration? How many examples do we need to see of them lying to congress, practicing corruption, lying to the FBI, gratifying themselves at the taxpayer expense, misusing their offices for profit, etc?
I thought we were a nation of laws? Why aren't the media asking this every single time they say we're a nation of laws and the laws must be followed and enforced?
Okay, Skippy, let me put you in a chain link fence and see how you like it.
Around schools? Holy bear poo, you're stupid. First, most schools don't have fencing surrounding it. Second, not fencing that high, third the fencing there is to prevent balls from going into roads and parking lots and not to hold people against their will. I realize going to school might be against your will, but that's only because you steadfastly refuse to educate yourself.
Unlike you, I was actually in school as they were securing them post 9/11 and the biggest things were to keep people out - not in! Most schools use a school ID to open doors, and may have closed some doors off or prevented them from being opened from the outside.
Now, I'm going to agree with the Trumpeters for a rare occasion and agree that kids are separated from parents when parents commit crimes, but there's major differences as to HOW.
1) Kids aren't locked up, at worse they go to foster care system or under the care of relatives but never do they go to jail or are put in cages.
2) Most people arrested, especially since bail reform in NJ, are not keep in jail. They're booked and released with a court date.
3) The majority of these illegals are charged with misdemeanors, for which you may never see the inside of a jail cell in some places.
Also, there's a difference between policy and the law. Separating kids and putting them in CAGES (Here's some definitions for you https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cage) is a POLICY of the TRUMP administration. Jailing illegal before their trial date is a POLICY of the TRUMP administration, unlike that policy of catch and release (under Bush and Obama) that applies to the vast majority of criminals even beyond illegal immigrants.
Skippy: "Accountability. You are responsible for the consequences of your actions. The world does not exist to accommodate you and your bad choices."
I'm going to frame that. You're responsible for voting in Trump and everything that came with it, including the increase in literally nazis, the "tax cuts" increasing the wealth divide, and turning America into a laughing stock of the world, among a very long list.
Speaking of accountability, let's talk about the fact that republicans - the ultimate hypocrites - don't know the meaning of the word accountability.
Let's blame illegals because they took my job. Translation: I'm so worthless that someone who doesn't live here legally and doesn't speak english, can take a job from me, a "superior" American. Also, my boss is such a turd that he's willing to hire illegal workers for below minimum and certainly a fair livable wage, in an effort to increase his profit margin. That said boss is likely not up to all kinda of other crap like avoiding safety regulations as well.
Accountability again: President Tiny Hands: I can do anything
Also President Tiny Hands: BLAME THE DEMOCRATS FOR SEPARATING PARENTS FROM THEIR CHILDREN, I CAN'T DO ANYTHING (Even though my administration created the policy and this has only been happening since I took office)
To take your "Accountability" and shove it
Proud Liberal we get it - we completely get it from your 10 posts today....you don't agree w/ a 16 year old changing diapers
Hackresident: "PTOD" is a typo, sorry. Should have been POTUS. I usually triple check everything, but I'm only human. At least now you know i'm not A.I., I can't even tell a bad joke.
Joe Friday: Congress can impeach for, "for whatever reason whatsoever". Basically, when his conduct deserves it, impeach. At the same time, Congress has to choose to impeach. And, they may not always want to do it even when the conduct deserves it. This is when you vote the current Congress out.
Seeking asylum is different from crossing the border and laying low. Every incident must be investigated. To find out if it's a case of human trafficking or illegal border crossing. I'm not surprised if they just separate first as a safety measure. For some reason those cages remind me of a hard border to prevent further entry into the Country. Not to mention the fact there wasn't a lot of pre-existing structures for this type of detainment in the first place.
It's sad, really. People should arm the Mexican citizens and have them deal with their own revolution against the drug cartels that took over their Country.
Of course, it's impossible to speak for all People. There's bound to be some corrupt types in every level of everything.
Proud liberal: calling a person names; for example,"orange monster" is offensive and childish; and doesn't add weight to your opinion. A lot of the committees at the U.N. are a joke and an offensive to many a people. It's a political mechanism at its worst, and a place where countries work together at its best.
And it degrades to name calling and Nazi references - how cute. Definitely and Indication you have lost the debate..
Well Skip and his friends approve of the way that the children are being treated, which is ridiculous so my question Still Remains unanswered
Speaking of those glorious "peanuts & crumbs" tax cuts, hold onto your hat, they're going to evaporate quickly as you're about to start having to pay a whole lot more for everything.
Not to mention that they were bought with 1.5 trillion in debt that will have to be paid back by...wait for it...tax increases at some point (soon) or the removal of the medicare and social security benefits that Ryan is itching to accomplish and which we paid into our whole lives.
I'm old enough to remember when we put tariffs on the Japanese cars that were coming in. The American automakers said "thank you very much" and quickly took advantage of it by jacking prices up and cutting waaay back on quality.
I'd pay money to see Skippy in a cage. Maybe we can even put a quarter into those feed dispensers and get him to eat out of our hands.
Also: Laws are not absolute and just because something is the law does not make it just, legal, constitutional or moral.
The constitution is not either. It's been amended 27 times including one amendment that repealed another!
States have legalized marijuana to various degrees, but it's still illegal federally.
Laws get repealed and replaced....speaking of which, weren't you idiots just trying to repeat and replace some law for the past 8 years....funny how they're on the side of the law when it's the law they like. Just like "states rights" and laws about slavery.
How about a few others:
The Runaway Slave Act
The national maximum speed law
Many Jim Crow laws (I bet you folks would love to see those back, judging by your opinions on everything else)
Chinese Exclusion Act
Various state and federal laws limited gay marriage, interracial marriage, and sodomy (Thank god, because some of you need to get sodomized!)
Many of the "Blue laws"
How about other "laws" like Executive orders? How about 9066 - the Japanese internment - we even gave these folks money and a formal apologize after we screwed this one up.
(Little known fact, Canada followed our lead and did the same both in jailing and offering compensation)
The law is alive and every changing, both due to the growth of humanity and decent, changes in technology, and sadly as people and corporations find new ways to abuse and exploit others.
How do we know that 16 year old child wasn't that babies mother. I don't understand what the uproar is. Obama did the same thing on his watch, as did Bush and Clinton. When criminals break the law their children are always taken away. To keep them safe from their parents criminal behavior. Remember Janet Reno and Waco. Weren't those children torn away from their parents. Oh that's right Janet Reno had them gunned down along with their parents. Remember this little kid? Where was the uproar then from the left?? Oh that's right it was during Bill Clintons presidency. We have laws in this country that need to be followed. Not only by Americans, but for anyone who comes here.
No the 16 year old child was separated from her parents just like the baby was separated from her parents. The supervisor did not change the diaper so the wonderful 16 year old child took it upon herself to take care for the infant. It doesn't matter if your legal or not legal when it comes to children. Children need to be cared for. Children should not be treated like this this is where I'm going at legal or not legal . The treatment of children needs attention at these children are being uncared-for. And if you think that this treatment is okay just because they're illegal children then I hope you don't have any children in your life because that's just despicable heartbreaking disgusting and unforgivable if you think that way just because they are illegal they still are human children. Yes that's right children innocent children
Here's some dumb laws
so go turn yourselves in soup slurrpers!
How about you cigarette smokers who smoke leaning against public buildings! We chase away people daily from doing this on our building at work because these scum makes our windows and awning dirty. It's illegal within 25 feet of a public building, which encompasses every sidewalk on a main street ever. Should we put them into a black site and torture them?
How about we tag your cars with a license plate on the roof and use satellites to write you a ticket automatically every time you speed. I bet none of you would be upset about us ENFORCING OUR LAWs then.
Y'all just a bunch of law abiding saints right?
I agree if the parent is an actual criminal the kids should be separated - HUMANELY, not in internment camps of chain-link cages.
These people are guilty of misdemeanors, crossing outside of an official border crossing. You are guilty of a misdemeanor everytime you get behind the wheel, assuming that like 99.9% of people you break the speed limit. Should you be arrested and your kids ripped from the car and put in cages?
As far as the misdemeanor, they cross where they do for several reasons. First, the border stations that the right-wing talking points keep urging them to cross at are blocked. There are US agents at the roads and bridges to them actually blocking the way, saying they're all full (when actual on site witnesses say they're anything but). So after trekking all that way what are they going to do? They willingly surrender themselves as the law provides for those seeking asylum. Some just don't know any better. And, in many cases, the areas around those border crossings are extremely dangerous, as bad people lurk there waiting to do bad things to them.
The incidents of separation under Bush, Clinton, Obama were few and far between. This is MASS INCARCERATION OF CHILDREN IN INTERNMENT CAMPS. We should all be ashamed.
You said laws have to be followed. What about the ones about lying to Congress, corruption, abuse of office, profiting from public office, etc?
Again, ask yourself if your dirty, uneducated, funny-talking ancestors were given a chance in this country and how thankful you should be that we do that.
Ask yourself if you want to live in a country that forces you to salute the flag or dear leader. Ask yourself if you want to be forced into a particular ideology or unable to speak out against it, fearing for your life or your children's, or getting locked up.
Because that's where we're heading. This guy doesn't worship at the alter of dictators and despots for nothing. We're on a fast track to facism. Read up on the early days of Hiitler, Mussolini, and countless other beloved right-wing "nationalists."
Because one day, they may come for you, because you're "different" in some way. Perhaps you're a Catholic and not a Protestant. Or some such. It may be you or those you love someday.
BH2 you're insane... Don't bring up a guy in Hitler that killed millions of people in camps and also caused a war that killed tens of millions of people and compare him to Trump.
A1B - let me break this down for you.
If you are knowingly, illegally entering a nation, without grounds of guaranteed protection, nor compiling to the criteria to be considered refugee, being that you are the legal guardian of the child or sworn protector, are you not knowingly putting your child at risk?
That is a form of abuse..
The entire world knows full well the dangers that exist for their child in the event of illegal entry and or the subjected environment that child must endure in the acts leading up to and after illegal entry.
That is known as neglect.
Therefore, it follows suit that children should be separated as the parents KNOW they are, at the very least, putting their child at risk leading up to illegal crossing. In addition medical assessments and treatment must be performed and these children must be protected from other ADULTS who wish to do them harm.
stop virtue signaling and engaging, character assignation and threats/ because you cant logically support your position.
Metsman: Hitler didn't do that overnight. Trump has the full potential to do the same and sure as hell seems to be reading the "How to be a dictator" manual. Or at least the picture book version.
alpha1beta you're insane too... You will never see Trump gather people up into camps, starve them, and then throw them into furnaces.... You won't see him invading neighboring countries trying to take over the world. I can't believe the nonsense I'm reading...
@alpha1beta "Y'all just a bunch of law abiding saints right?"
So your trying to sell your ideas by "justifying" breaking the law?
I L L E G A L....is it really that hard to understand?
But no...lets forget the fact that the parents put their kids in that situation to begin with....there is only so much money and so many people to help...proud liberal...maybe you should go work the boarder and help by changing diapers....maybe that would give you something to do during the day, as you clearly have no job and nothing better to do then post every 5 minutes....again.
Look at the town pool! A fence with barbed wire around it! Oh no the poor people...
A1B et..rejoice, unlike anyone you would have elected, Trump is actually proposing a solution to end the practice of separating children from their 'parents' at the border.
I'm sure you know by this point, but have refused to respond to, that this practice has been going on to a much greater extent for many years prior to the Trump administration. Your unwillingness to support an actual fix to the issue really, really betrays to sensible people how ingenuine your supposed heightened compassion really is.
Trump's solution may not be ideal in your eyes, but it is a comparatively cheap, effective and proven solution that has many other benefits. In a less insane time I'd like to believe that your supposed heightened sense of compassion would lead you to concede to the plan of a legitimately elected president for the sake of the separated children rather than jump from thinly veiled outrage to outrage.
In a weeks time this story will recede out of your consciousness, just like the 'seven days' hate' receded out of your consciousness last week. No ground will support your standing because it melts away beneath you under the lightest amount of scrutiny. Therefore you jump from unstable island to island, desperately searching for some saving grace; some minuscule bit of leverage to supplant the formless, amorphous, capricious value system you ironically call universal morality.
the kids are going to get post-traumatic stress disorder, why make the kid's lives and health sick?
FE: Global Warming - he goes against as a fraud and untrue.
As of today, he's leaving the United Nations' Humans' Rights.
What next? Almost every day there is something else. Does something ridiculous, and he does the next thing to take the diversion off of it (especially if the press ridicules it. (Look up "Wag the Dog").
some doctors that have gone on TV and the press have said on TV that this moron is mentally ill. G-d get him out of this high perch and take away that dictator wand. he makes me want to puke.
How did his wife get into this country? wasn't she working in the US as a model without the proper, legal paperwork?
The school I went to in the late 30s and 40s had a fence around it. We used to climb the fence after school hours and weekends to play in the yard. The cops knew we did that and never did anything because we didn't destroy anything. We played baseball with a tennis ball. We took the widest part of the grounds and put a strike zone on the building with chalk. Then we would look for chalk on the ball to settle disputes. We would hit the coal shute door with a fist and it would open so the smallest guy could go around and open the door. Then play basket ball in the gym.and get a drink. It is called respect. If any of us did anything wrong, our parents would whack us with the strap. And the cop was never wrong. Many were bulled, you learned to deal with it and most times others would step in. Ho!! my, God forbid such actions today.
Metsman - tyranny happens very slowly. Read up on Hitler's path, and the rest of them. The gameplan Trump is following is exactly the same one as the dictators he idolizes. Nobody ever thought Hitler was capable of ANY of that in the early days. Nobody knew he was a narcissistic psychopath then. With Trump, it's evident from the start. He's practically *begging* to be appointed leader for life. That doesn't scare the hell out of you?
For Pete's sake, how clear does he have to be that he wishes he had the same ability and control as they do, to punish those who do not properly worship at his feet, praise him. You're really not seeing that in him? You don't see a man that would do anything, anything to YOU for his own personal gain? He's come very close to getting reporters killed or injured.
Remember. The playbook says first divide the people with hatred and suspicion. Then take out the media. Then take away their weapons. Then get rid of everyone who disagrees or doesn't fit your image of a "citizen".Trump is on baby step two. He'll keep on trucking until people wake up and realize what's going on.
I'd argue that it's happening quickly. We're only a year and a half in and already we have internment camps for children in the United States of America. It's like a bad movie already.
BH2, bingo! Glad to see someone else is aware of the history. People thought Hitler was a joke and that his talk about the Jews were just him ranting on. Even citizens of Germany had no idea what was actually going on, and the majority of the soldiers weren't Nazis.
I think this will play out a bit different. The Russians are on the side with the nazis this time.
Also, the nazis are really stupid this time around.
Do the head-man followers still claim they support what he does, so they don't look bad or a "traitor"? (so to speak, I can think of other words to use, but won't).
I look at these college kids at his rallies on TV, and the people that voted for him with the belief that "he will make America Great Again". I can't help but wonder if they are deaf or haven't dealt with B.S.-ers in their short or long lifes, or are gullible and nieve.
Do you think he's made America better? HOW??? He gave us a little more in our checks, only to be taxed more in other areas, and our fuel has gone up about 30 cents a gallon, thanks to whomever did that. All these tariffs to other countries are going to make the US lose business, not gain. Am I right? Has he saved jobs? I don't see any.
There's one nutsy issue after another. IT DOESN"T END!!! And those poor babies and young children w/o their parents: SHAME ON HIM!!!
now he is praising KJU as BFFs. Why?
BH2 You are following the talking points of the Builderbergs nicely. The One World Order is coming and you will have nothing to say about anything..
Obama is a Nazi too? Why did the leftist media only bring it up now? It's pure propaganda meant to divide people.
Here is something to get behind - Children should not be smuggled into countries like drugs. They're humans.
Bill Clinton Receives Standing O In 1995 State Of The Union For Tough Stance On Illegal Immigration
Obama Calls for Immigration Reform
And Hillary Clinton in 2014 saying that children should be sent back with their illegal parents.
from the HuffPo - one of your authorized sources of liberal propaganda..
Deportation Separated Thousands Of U.S.-Born Children From Parents In 2013
Can't wait to hear your counter-argument.
It's was called the Alien Transfer and Exit program back in 2015
Vox - another left leaning source - "To be clear, there is no official Trump policy stating that every family entering the US without papers has to be separated. What there is is a policy that all adults caught crossing into the US illegally are supposed to be criminally prosecuted — and when that happens to a parent, separation is inevitable."
Admit you have no clue. You haven't actually done any research into this. You're just parroting and cutting-and-pasting talking points.
Skippy, I'll have you know, I don't even have cable, I don't watch live TV. I do watch a little netflix and catch some Colbert monologues on youtube, but those are solely because he's funny as hell (and right).
I do have a subscription to the Washington Post and read it daily. I don't need to copy and past talking points when the DHS Website says all you need to know.
I have spend many nights reading source documents, from the manafort indictments to 200 of the 300+ pages of the congressional interview with fusion GPS (That one was a real snooze). I'll even turn on the live streams for some of the better congressional interviews (Comey and Sessions. Although honestly, I could just listen to Sessions saying "I do not recall" on repeat for 6 straight hours and get the exact same thing out of any testimony he's given).
Plus, when literally every major news source says something and Fox news says the opposite, any human with a functional brain (even half functional) should know what's up.
Did you know the policy was a Jeff Sessions announcement, not Trump?
Here's a video of the moron actually announcing it.
This article lays things out pretty nice including history, something your side likes to ignore.
Mods: Can we dig up Skippy's IP and make sure it's not from Russia? I have a sneaking suspicion the old wives' tale about Russian sleeper agents may be true.
JR: Chill out,bwhy always in argument mode? You started posting meme,I did, then others too...pls show your humor minus the sarcasm... By the way you won, I am kettle and pot,happy?Have fun while it last
Good points Skippy. Reading this thread is disturbing. The level of hate and vitriol coming from alpha1beta and Proud Liberal is incredibly astounding. I am disturbed and concerned why these personal attacks from alpha1beta are allowed to remain up. They are as offensive as they are repugnant. Aphal1beta has clearly violated the published terms of service that this forum operates under.
Why is he allowed to get away with this?
Actually, Trump has a much easier path than Hitler and others did. He's already got a government that's capable of (and using) complete surveillance of its citizens. He's already got a TV network acting as state TV, espousing the propaganda and talking points of his administration, and yes, lying to us every day. Hitler didn't have that yet at this stage in the game. Add in the Sinclair network and its army of allegiance-professing drone anchors.
We're creating another generation of kids who hate America with good reason, due to the treatment of them and their parents. Rather than thankful future citizens who owe us a debt of gratitude and pay into our social security and medicare/medicade system without being able to use it (thank you, immigrants, for helping fund my retirement with your hard work), we're creating a whole new army of future Osama bin Ladens. It might be me, you, our kids, or grandkids that pay the price for our hateful treatment of these individuals that only want to come here for a better life.
They're trying to do this right and legally. They're *trying* to get to the checkpoint stations. We've intentionally understaffed those so that they're overcrowded, or else lie to them about there being no room, knowing full well we are directing them into the arms of the dangerous coyotes who will then show them how to cross the river. Then we say we're trying to save them from the "dangerous journey".
Pure evil. And as we know, evil doesn't go unpunished. Especially when you do evil in the name of God.
And if you say they'll never come for your guns, or else you'll be some kind of militia person like in those cool movies and websites, think again. If you try to combat the armored personnel carriers and military weapons that are prevalent around the country in police forces with your puny Bushmaster AR-15, a drone strike will fix you up quickly.
In Mueller we trust.
BH2, You stated; "The thing I don't understand about Trump's new zero-tolerance policy that has caused this," when in actuality it's not Trump's policy that has cause the situation. It's people illegally crossing the US border. Typical liberal way of twisting the facts to suit your narrative. Fortunately most people can see through your BS.
Look at what your president says
"I'm automatically attracted to beautiful [women]—I just start kissing them. It's like a magnet. Just kiss. I don't even wait. And when you're a star they let you do it. You can do anything ... Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything."
“your puny Bushmaster AR-15”
Wait, I thought AR-15’s were “high powered weapons of war”.
Grayhawk I'm concerned that people like you are getting brainwashed but people like Trump and his cronies. You know what I'm concerned about the children can wet missing I'm concerned about the children who are in cages. That is who I'm concerned about and rightfully so. Trump is a very scary scary man to realize they hate us he's becoming buddy-buddy with a dictator. He's doing business in China that has nothing to do with the United States it's just going to get him richer. That is what I'm concerned about. I'm very concerned because the scary man is going to do terrible things to her country and he already is like putting children in cages and not getting the children properly taken care of. That's what I'm scared of I'm scared of what happened to those 1500 children that are missing and nobody can find them that is what I'm concerned about. And people like you who are brainwashed by Trump's lies that's who I'm concerned about you have your concerns all mixed up I'm not sure how anybody can support a horrible horrible man who wants to grab women's pussys and who treats women garbage and minorities like garbage that's what's concerning. I don't want my daughter to grow up saying this so-called leader saying horrible things about women. Trump is not right he's a horrible horrible person open your eyes and see what he's doing he's a terrible horrible man get your priorities right and people who attacked me where not with it in the guidelines of how you're supposed to act on these forms oh but that's okay because I'm a minority right? So are you staying the only people who agree with you can break the rules and still stay on this board? Because I was attacked with Mema is horrible horrible things were said to me and nobody got off this board because I still see people writing another forms interesting how you didn't say that they should be removed from this board just something to think about but is it because I don't agree with you? And only people who agree with you should be allowed to say those things
Nobody address my concerns about these poor children being treated terribly by supervisors and having other children and their cages having to care for them. Is it because you don't know what to say? Because maybe you think I am right? Because the supervisors are not doing what they should be doing protecting the children legal or not legal children. Are children. And when they're ripped away from their parents arm and they're crying and they're not being consoled not even by the supervisors that is heartbreaking. But obviously you people don't care about the kids
BH2, you stated; "Say what you want about their "cesspool country" Philliesman, but it seems clear that these kids are loved by their parents and brought here out of love and their parents wanting a better future for them." You do realize that the majority of these illegal alien children are sent on their own to cross the border. Where is your compassion for children when their "loving parents" place their child/ children at risk of violence, rape, etc, by sending them off to illegally cross the border with coyotes. That's a form of child abuse. Also, many of the adults are not the children's parents or can't prove that they are. So for you it's proper to have children placed in harms way but it's a crime to have them housed in safe quarters where they get food, shelter and medical aid. Once again any sense of rationality you might possess is being clouded by your liberal bias. Face it, this same policy took place while Obama was president and you liberals had no complaint then. The only reason why you complain about it now is because of your dislike of Trump. You and liberals like you are nothing but a bunch of hypocrites.
alpha1beta, I'll give you credit for one thing, spewing garbage. You stated; "Accountability again: President Tiny Hands: I can do anything
Also President Tiny Hands: BLAME THE DEMOCRATS FOR SEPARATING PARENTS FROM THEIR CHILDREN, I CAN'T DO ANYTHING (Even though my administration created the policy and this has only been happening since I took office)" Got news for you, the policy of detaining illegal alien children who cross the US border was approved and enacted by a democratically controlled congress and has been law since the Bush administration. So get off your phony rhetoric soapbox where the only people who care what you say are your fellow Trump hating liberals.
Seems like there's plenty of vitriol, hate and propaganda coming from a lot of people. You can open any HL political post and see the usual suspects... kind of odd perhaps they should start their own site or visit one of the millions of political ones out there.
Scary to see how utterly insane these people have become. Talk about hate mongers. Wow.
Scarey you accept children be in horrible living conditions. Trump and his followers ...scary .....scary world trump making it.
#9 seems kind of appropriate
We should discuss, not name call. That's when people stop listening.
BC: There's irrefutable evidence that this system has been designed to deny them the legal process of coming to a processing station and *force* them to enter other ways. When they do, they present themselves for asylum and are arrested for a misdemeanor, jailed without the normal release and trial date (no they don't disappear, after all they've now got GPS ankle bracelets attached) and their children are ripped away.
Mark Mc: The AR-15 is puny versus .50 calibre turret or helicopter guns and drone strikes. Whole different situation when it's used against defenseless kids in schools. It *is* a weapon of war, just on the lower scale in a real war. I'm sure you already know that. I'm 4th generation military, Vietnam era Vet and my son the Marine machine gunner 0331 did several tours in Afghanistan.
BC: the kids are typically sent in caravans with other adults, safety in numbers, just like the one we all watched in recent months with embedded reporters. Sure it's dangerous, but even the evil people on the roads on the way here never ripped them away. Only in Amerika now. Their parents send them out of love, for a better life. Read the rest of the posts today, we already covered a lot of your points.
I agree with BH2 and am open to discuss things without personal attacks - who is with me?
Obama jailed innocent immigrant children in large holding cages :
Greyhawk those were older kids who were part of a large number who showed up all at once unaccompanied. They spent a very short time there before being moved to better facilities. Not screaming little kids ripped away from their parents permanently and put in cages.
Corey Lewandowski just said wah wah about a 10 year old with down syndrome being taken from her mom. He did it live on TV. Only a monster would do that. How is anyone ok with that? Can you be ok with it and say you're a patriotic American?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/migrant-children-in-cages-2014-photos-explained-2018-5 and they were working on finding appropriate housing for these people. And they were coming over by themselves they were not being taken away from their parents especially babies when breastfeeding and and an officer taking them right away as they were being fed. Also a 16 year old girl to not have to change a diaper of an infant because the supervisors did not do it. Inhumane treatment. Trump way of doing things is wrong inhumane terrible. Obama was trying to to control the situation of it over growing number of older kids coming over so yep you got debunked
BH2, You stated; "There's irrefutable evidence that this system has been designed to deny them the legal process of coming to a processing station and *force* them to enter other ways." To that I say you're wrong. The proper and available way for these people to ask for asylum is to go to the consulate in their country and request it. If you are fleeing your home country seeking asylum you are to do so in the first country of entry, in which case for South/ Central Americans is Mexico not the United States. But these people are being told they don't need to comply with the law and all they need do is show up and they'll be given asylum. Many who are spewing these lies are democrats who set up shop in South/ Central America and Mexico to assist and encourage illegal border crossing. The United States admits over a million new citizens into our country last year. Immigrants who followed the law and went through proper channels to obtain citizenship or Green Cards. If they could do it legally then so can others.
You further stated; "the kids are typically sent in caravans with other adults, safety in numbers, just like the one we all watched in recent months with embedded reporters. Sure it's dangerous, but even the evil people on the roads on the way here never ripped them away. Only in Amerika now. Their parents send them out of love, for a better life." To that I respond, parents don't send their children off on their own "out of love." They send them on ahead because they believe the children will be granted asylum easier than the parents. And once that happens, the children can request their parents to join them in the United States. That's the tactic and it's been well proven.
And then there is the issue of who pays for all of this. It's United States tax payers that's who. And in case you're unaware, many law abiding American citizens are having trouble making ends meet as it is and don't need/ want additional financial burdens placed on them. Many Americans are homeless and in need of care but are unable to pay for it. However,we as tax payers are forced to pay to support illegal aliens through border security costs and support for families with children once they are here. Bottom line is many tax payers are fed up with paying these costs and that's part of the reason illegal aliens are not welcome.
PL, "Seeking help is legal." Correction, seeking help legally is legal. Over a million people did that successfully and were granted US citizenship and/ or Green Cards last year. They didn't try to jump ahead in line. There is a legal method and it needs to be enforced.
PL, "Scarey you accept children be in horrible living conditions. Trump and his followers ...scary .....scary world trump making it." But I guess it wasn't so scary when Obama did it. Right?
Photos of border detention facilities from the Obama-era, taken during 2014, look nearly identical to the ones taken during the Trump era.
Again read the article that I posted and also what bh2 had said. And Trump is inhuman by having people. Taking children away from their mother while they're breast-feeding. And also supervisors not changing diapers. This is not okay and if you think this is acceptable that is very sad. No child should have to go through this. The article states that they were older children who were here unattended and were not taken from their parents. And no wonder why Trump pulled out of the United Nations human treatment because they did not like what he's doing. So that is why he pulled out because he knows he's doing a horrible horrible thing that is not approved by the world. Seriously so sad I trialed as a child and these are scared. Do you think it's acceptable to put a child away from the breast of a mother you taking food from that child nourishment. And if that child is only used to breastmilk the child's going to have a very difficult time being Fed without the mother if breast milk is what is what they used to. The supervisors aren't even taking care of basic needs of changing a diaper what do you think of this? Do you think you have two acceptable for these children to be treated like this legal or not legal they are children innocent children. They do not deserve this and they're going to have long range psychological issues because of the so-called leader and his cronies. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that a child needs to be with their parents and it coming here to seek help from danger is legal. He is a horrible horrible person to let this happen period in 2018 that should not happen in America
The supervisor of the children are not even consoling a children when they cry. This is not okay especially the young young children who have no idea what's going on and have no idea where their parents are and if they will ever see them again heartbreaking
We have provided links and imperical evidence that this has been going on for nearly 20 years - why are we blaming this admin. Feel free to ignore as your overlords have instructed
Poor treatment of children. Trump ordered. Masses of families...
Also it was stated info about what last President did and why and that was better then horrible trump doing now and lack of services to the children.
Skipped you feel it's okay to take a child from a breast of a mother when they're not even done eating. And that child is breastfed so how is he or she going to be able to feed without the mother? Do you think it's okay that the supervisors are not changing diapers but there have another child change diapers what happens if there was not an older child in the cage with the younger child with a sit in a poopy repeat Iver days on in? Do you think that's okay
Obama administration prosecuted nearly 500,000 illegal immigrants between FY 2010-FY2016. They referred 1/5 of illegals for prosecution, which often resulted in family separations.
I wonder if they separate the boys from girls, over age 11 , in these mass bedrooms. and no pillows either (least of their issues). why doesn't his wife and daughter stand up against this?
The confirmation bias is strong with this one (Proud Liberal)
Bush signed the law, Obama had a similar situation happening- as admitted by a democrat- the MSM just kept it hush-hush so it wouldn't make their golden boy look bad.
You want to change the law? Tell congress. It's not Trump's job. He'll sign it if congress passes it.
Glenn Beck was discussing this yesterday. Not only did he discuss this back in 2014, he WENT DOWN THERE to hand out toys and other things to the children. He tried to bring light to the situation, but no one wanted to listen. Now that Trump's president, and the Russia narrative has failed, they bring this to the forefront as a weapon. Standard politics 101. Gotta' love those "caring" democrats, letting this issue rot in the sun until they could use it to forward their agenda (which at this point, is nothing but for 1 thing: remove Trump. The couldn't care less about the children, or anything else happening in today's America. Of wait- guns. Get rid of Trump and guns.
Let's make something clear. Yup. Obama, Clinton, and Bush separated *some* families. Obama deported more people than anyone. But as far as separating kids, the numbers were minuscule. It happened when the parent had warrants and rightfully should be arrested for those. It was a TINY number of separations and out of necessity. Few and far between. Not mass separations that we see now, taking children away from people who are committing misdemeanor offenses because they are actually being forced to by the games this administration is playing to deny them the ability to do this the right, legal way.
BC - if a kid comes over and the parent later, so what? Again, we need these folks. We're at full employment. They do the horrible, nasty work spoiled Americans won't do. They provably statistically work their asses off, commit incredibly low levels of crime, and again contribute to our social security and medicare coffers without being able to collect. The taxpayer money spent on this, when done right, is *tiny*, especially compared to the 1.5 trillion dollar tax giveaway to corporations, who gave it to their execs and wealthy sharholders rather then create the jobs they promised to (most, like mine, just used it to lay off workers). It's also *tiny* compared to the money being stolen by this corrupt administration, people like Trump and Pruitt, who are looting us daily. How many millions have we spent for golf carts, expensive luxury rooms, security, meals, etc for the huge entourage this President takes to his golf resorts, which then go straight into his profits? That's not disgusting? It's our bleeping money! You can get behind *that* guy, who would screw you out of your life savings for a scam "university" and laugh at you in a heartbeat? That's your hero? Not to mention what he'd do if left alone in a room for a few minutes with your daugher, if she happened to be of a certain age and attractive.
This country was built by immigrants, including the slaves. The United States accepts far fewer immigrants than the majority of countries (shame on us). We're never going back to that vision of 1940's America where everyone is white and toting a lunchpail to their sweet factory job.
I'll remind you that Melania Trump used the family unification act to bring her family here. OH MY GOD, THE HORRORS!
Also remember that the last few years (including under Obama) more non-citizens left than came in. The net immigration was NEGATIVE. So the false talk about "infestation" and immigrants pouring over our borders is just lies. So is the MS-13 scare tactic. They're still looking for one to use as an example. Nada. They are, however in Staten Island and other places. Why not look there instead?
Taking babies and small children (any children) from their parents, who have tried to do things legally and have only committed a misdemeanor, is pure evil and horrific that it's happening in our beautiful country. What a national disgrace. So again, anyone here mad at those evil black people taking a knee during the national anthem and not offended by the shame being brougnt on our country and flag by this?
I don't think anyone *likes* what is going on in this situation. And I think we can all agree there must be a better way to fix it (building the wall/securing the border would fix it, because it would PREVENT it from happening in the first place). But this isn't about "who built the country" or "slavery"... let's try to stick to the actual issue at hand and not obfuscate the issue with emotional diatribe.
It's frustrating because this HAS BEEN HAPPENING. We didn't know it, thanks to the democrat/MSM ignoring it for political reasons (to protect Obama's reputation). But the hypocrisy of "it's all Trump's FAULT!" is falling flat, and frankly borders on deception. It's been happening for years.
OK. So. Let's fix it. Get on the horn to your democrat buddies in congress and tell them to get on board and write a bill that will fix it- and "catch and release" is not acceptable. Congress makes law, president signs into law. This ball is in congress' court now. If the problem is not addressed, the oneness falls not on Trump- it falls on Congress.
Laughable try, frankly, "p%Ssy gate" didn't work, "russia gate" didn't work, "tax gate" didn't work, so here comes "child gate"...
If your side is serious about this, start calling congress. If a solution other than "catch & release" crosses Trump's desk, he'll sign it.
At this point I am completely convinced that Proud Liberal is either illiterate and cannot read any actual FACTS posted on this site, or just plain lives in a alternate reality.
My god....just keep repeating yourself over, and over, and over....despite how many times people have posted factual info PROVING you COMPLETELY WRONG....if you truly are the "liberal mindset" of the future...we are in VERY big trouble.
I cannot believe your consistently incorrect blinded information is being allowed to stay on the forum.
All the pictures I posted are from Obama's policy to stop families crossing illegally. BHO wanted parents to know they faced the consequence of being separated from their children.
Personal accounts from immigration lawyers tell a tale of Obama being equally concerned about unaccompanied minors traveling to the border and wanting to create a deterrent.
Here's another pic from Obama's administration:
If immigrants wants to come here *legally* to find jobs that Americans won’t do, that’s fine.
Allowing them to *illegally* sneak across the border in the dead of night because you want cheap corn on the cob is NOT fine.
The "wall" is not the solution. It's the most ridiculous idea yet. It was just a Game of Thrones style 'prop' to get a lot of people who don't know better fired up on the campaign trail.
Walls don't work. ANY wall, no matter what it's made out of, can be climbed over, tunneled under, or compromised in other ways. It's an insane waste of So much much money that could be used to fix our roads, bridges, tunnels, schools, and so many other desperate actual needs.
You do realize that inexpensive technology is readily available in the form of balloons, drones, etc to neatly lift small numbers of humans over that stupid wall? It's just a prop for Trump to keep his base all excited.
The drugs aren't coming over the border in backpacks. they're coming in ships, planes, and trucks and mostly from China and the Middle East. So are the people. Those being smuggled in via trucks, planes, etc are laughing at the silly wall.
So illegals can afford to fly over the wall in a drone or a balloon but can’t afford to come here legally.
Walls are certainly a deterrent. BH2 you seem to be assuming that Trump is just thinking strictly about a physical wall. Nothing could be further from the reality. Virtual walls enforced by implementing high tech are all part of our presidents plans to secure the border. Dismissing all of that to try and make a point is self-limiting your perspective as to what is actually being proposed,
And yes, physical walls do help, and of course you're correct that no security system is perfect, but the very porous border we have right now can and should be shored up substantially.
It's hard to deny the simple to understand fact that a country without borders is not a country.
Americans should want their president to secure the borders, not sure why this is so much of a challenge for so many to understand and agree with.
"Walls don't work. "
Firstly, I said "wall/border security". We DO need border security. Whether it's a wall, or more/enhanced surveillance/apprehension/etc, we need it. If we didn't need it, these detention centers wouldn't be full of people. A secure border is not an unreasonable goal for a country to have. Bush ignored it, Obama ignored it.
Secondly, the people are sick and tired of the issue being ignored, and that's a very large reason Trump got elected.
You can continue on with your confirmation bias all you want, "walls don't work", "we don't need border security", "America needs to accept everyone from everywhere" etc.... but the American people, by electing someone as non-likely as Donald Trump, sent a message loud and clear that they do not agree with you. You really have to try to understand that- this wasn't a GOP darling, not a governor, or a senator, this was a GUY- a rich guy with an arrogance problem- that even the GOP did not want- that got elected PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. You need to understand that demonstrates how sick & tired the people are of DC establishment/"business as usual."
And, where were you back in 2014 when all this was happening? Lemme guess.... you weren't aware of the problem. Hmm.... I wonder why THAT is....
the photo posted by some filmmaker on Twitter that made this go viral is apparently fake.
Jrepub, skippy, Grey Hawk,
I provided a link to employment stats for undocumented immigrants, it's a bit dated.
It's my theory that many of these immigrants come here to work.
It's my theory that red blooded Americans are hiring them.
It's my theory that if we heavily prosecuted these American businesses the amount of undocumented workers would fall dramatically on their own.
How do you feel about prosecuting these employers (who know exactly what they are doing when they hire illegals) by seizing their businesses, homes, equipment, capital and equity?
Do you feel that someone who hires an illegal/undocumented worker is Anti-American?
Do you feel that someone who hires an illegal/undocumented worker is putting the safety and security of America at risk, and if so, what do you think would be an effective deterrent to such hiring activity?
BTW I am not against added border security, so lets leave that out of this particular discussion.
JeffersonRepub - the insane amount of corruption happening right before our eyes by the Trump administration is not "business as usual" for DC? It's "business as usual" on steroids. It's the swamp he promised to train on steroids. Trump and his minions are robbing us blind. That doesn't upset you? At all?
On border security: I'm all for it if the money is spent wisely, but we have far bigger priorities. Your loved ones take their lives in their hands just driving on our roads, bridges, tunnels every day.
Again, we are experiencing a NET OUTFLOW of illegal, undocumented people for the last several years now: http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2017/apr/26/ron-kind/yes-experiencing-net-outflow-illegal-undocumented-/
Most countries that have walls have them to keep the people IN. If this facist regime ever accomplishes their mission, you may regret that wall very much. Again, step one is turn the people against each other. Step two shut down the media. Step three take away their weapons. Step four build walls so they can't escape. Step five begin the persecution and then incarceration or deportation of anyone that doesn't fit your idea of a citizen. That would be YOU if you're not a very wealthy, straight, Protestant, white male. Almost all of you fail at least two of those criteria. They've already shown how they feel about everyone else, including women and now children.
"Country without borders is no country" Um, how many countries have walls around them and why were they built? Think about that. Every other civilized democratic country does just fine without walls. They take in the desperate people and make them patriotic, tax paying citizens.
"Every other civilized democratic country does just fine without walls. They take in the desperate people and make them patriotic, tax paying citizens." -BH2
How's that working out for Germany at the moment??
Here are more lies you're being told about this by your President.
1. We have to detain them. If we give them a court date, they never come back for the hearing. NOT TRUE. The rate of returns for court appearances has been extremely high historically. Recently the administration has made it harder, but they are attaching GPS monitors so we always know exactly where they are and they know we know so of course they're coming back for the hearing.
2. Infestation. This is cyclic/periodic depending on time of the year, migrant job availability, etc. Net immigration is *down* for several years now. The number of immigrants showing up is down also.
3. They're MS-13 gang members. Oh please. If they find just *one* believe me, they'll be parading that person around like crazy. They're easily identifiable due to tattoos. These are desparate families.
4. They're fake families or actors. If you believe this, you need help. Seriously. I doubt anyone here really does, this is major tin-foil hat Devin Nunes/Jim Jordan stuff.
5. They're not coming to the points of entry and dong this legally. They are, actually but we're creating false shortages of help there or lying to them about there being no room and turning them away.
There's more, that's off the top of my head. The point is, your President (and his propaganda TV network) are lying to you. You're okay with that?
How long before one or more of these poor kids dies due to the lack of proper medical attention and trauma? Yeah, it could have happened on the horrible journey, but if it happens while they are in the care of the United States of Ameria, in cages? What will the blowback be like then?
A country that picks and chooses what laws they are going to obey, is no country for very long.
A country that makes laws that do not make any sense is asking for it's citizens to disobey laws.
I personally don't have any firearms. Don't care to. Not opposed to those who want them.
There is a thread on this forum about magazine size.
There are those who have magazines over the new limit just signed into law.
I wonder how many of those who have these magazines are going to follow the new law and turn them in.
So to those that are going to hide them, claim they were stolen, lost or damaged, you are a criminal just like the illegal that runs over the border, am I correct Old Gent, based on your statement? Can't have it both ways.
"A country that picks and chooses what laws they are going to obey, is no country for very long."
I agree, which is what upsets me about watching this administration break some very serious laws every day, the ones that hold our country together, the ones that were laid down by the founders and spelled out by our constitution and bill of rights.
Do you agree?
It's called "The pursuit" of justice for a reason.
You don't always catch it.
And all of the administrations have broken very serious laws, not just the current one.
Those who write the laws (especially those who take dirty lobbyist cash) have the ability to make those laws that are in the best interest of the few vs the best interest of all.
For example, the USA cannot negotiate drug prices for senior citizens AKA Medicare.
Trump ran on that premise. Still nothing done about it. It was under Bush's watch in 2003 and is still in place. Can't have free trade with lobbyists controlling Congress.
In this case. Trump had nothing to do with this Law. It has been in the books before he became President. It is the way this country has been going for a while. For instance, All of a sudden we have this desire to care for youngsters. Where is the concern for the millions who have been taken from their mother’s wombs for convenience?
dodgeball - Yes, agreed. Those who knowingly employ illegal aliens should be prosecuted to the full extent that the law requires,
BH2 - there is so much wrong in your false assertions that I don't have the time to respond to each and every one of them. I will say that in my opinion your perspective is heavily influenced by a terminal case of TDS.
AB1's posts are so over the top hateful they are not worthy of any response other than public shunning which i recommend all posters think about doing.
It sure seems that most conservatives care more (much more) about the unborn then they do about living, breathing children. If they cared half as much about existing kids who are suffering as they do about abortion we would live in a much better world.
Old Gent, regarding "this law has been on the books", so I'll ask how you'll feel if suddenly the citizens of this country are arrested en mass for violating other "laws that have been on the books" such as the speed limits, fudging on your taxes, not crossing at the crosswalk, and so forth?
Those are more serious laws than the misdemeanor laws we're using to rip these kids away from their mothers and fathers. Not to mention that they're trying to do this lawfully and being pushed away by government officials knowing full well they're sending them into the arms of coyotes who will do it the unlawful way.
You're ok with that mass arrest and incarceration when they come to get you for violating the laws of our roadways? After all, we're a nation of laws, and the laws should be enforced, and a nation of laws is no nation at all.
"the insane amount of corruption happening right before our eyes by the Trump administration is not "business as usual" for DC? It's "business as usual" on steroids. It's the swamp he promised to train on steroids."
...says CNN. ROFL
If you actually believe that, you've got quite a few more years of "paying closer attention" to do before you fully realize what is, and has been, going on.
"I agree, which is what upsets me about watching this administration break some very serious laws every day"
And yet, when they FOLLOW the law as written, you also have a problem with it. See, there's the problem: there's no winning with you people, because you will accept nothing other than impeachment and removal of Trump. That's not going to happen.
The House will be voting on a bill thursday which would solve this problem. Let's see how many democrats get on board (I won't hold my breath.)
I agree as well, but what should be the "full extent of the law?" If the penalty is insufficient, what is the disincentive? To me, it needs to be severe in order to work.
This is why I believe that good cop/bad cop is in play.
Company hires 100 illegals, makes 10 million in profits. Company wins
ICE raids place, arrests illegals(Yay, good job, woohoo) ICE staff paid millions of taxpayer dollars and get to play good cop. Taxpayer loses, Cops win. Illegals lose.
Feds step in, Fine company 500k. Company ahead, Company wins.
Feds play good cop, Taxpayer pays, Taxpayer loses.
Rinse Recycle Repeat, over and over again.
Winners: Company,(profits) Police, Justice System(make money and look like hero's)
Losers: Taxpayers,(fools) Illegals.(just plain losers)
American public: Losers, because they can't even see they are being fleeced by their own Government. But those who despise illegals feel they are getting some sort of justice so I guess they feel they are getting something for their tax dollars...
dodgeball - Yes, agreed. Those who knowingly employ illegal aliens should be prosecuted to the full extent that the law requires,
The best way to change bad laws is to vigorously enforce them.
Using your magazine size analogy, I bet we wouldn’t HAVE magazine size limits if they didn’t make exceptions for law enforcement, TV hosts, etc. Arrest a few grandstanding politicians holding illegal items because they are trying to make a point (thus they have some imaginary immunity) and they’ll think twice about passing laws that only “everyone else” has to follow.
Remember when people were virtue signaling and destroyed their guns by cutting barrels off, etc? Slap them with a felony for having unregistered short barreled rifles (SBR’s) and perhaps they’d begin to see the folly (because the mere act of possessing something with a short barrel didn’t make them any more intent on using it to commit a crime).
The main gist is - if we have a law it should be enforced. No questions or exceptions. Cross the border illegally, you get detained. We don’t care why, what you did is simply illegal.
One problem-they do make exceptions for law enforcement.
They do not arrest politicians, tv hosts, rich individuals- and if they do, the penalty is never the same. Eg: a female teacher hooks up with student, gets 2 years, male teacher does same thing , gets 15 years.
Judges in America have way way way too much latitude on sentencing.
Also penalties (financial) don't affect all the same.
A lawyer making 500/hr getting a 30 dollar parking ticket is less affected than a clerk at the grocery store. Sure it's an equal dollar amount, but one suffers far more than the other.
Jail time for that parking ticket on the other hand- who would be suffering more now, the clerk or the lawyer?
I'll add they are not US citizens. They have no constitutional rights at all. NONE!! Including the children. When a parent endangers the life of their child they better know the law. This law has been on the books since the 90's. It has never been enforced. Now we have a President who is doing his job by enforcing this law and he's the bad guy.
Did BH2 seriously say not crossing at a crosswalk is worse than border jumping? LMAO....
Why bother painting crosswalks?
We should just float across the street on balloons and drones.
JeffersonRepub - so the stuff that swamp monster Pruitt is doing, so much corrupt swampy stuff it's hard to keep track of, is all made up by CNN?
"The main gist is - if we have a law it should be enforced. No questions or exceptions" so you haven't broken the speed limit today, Mark Mc?
auntiel - and which country did your desperate forebears come to this gracious, welcoming-to-immigrants country from? If not for our goodness, many of us would be destitute and living on potato farms in Ireland and elsewhere.
When Mueller is done we'll have a complete, long list of very serious laws broken by this monster President. What kind of fools sit at home in their shacks obeying the rules while someone like him ignores them and fleeces people like us for years and years?
Yeah, I get it, you get your racist agenda acted on from him, but that's just a carrot to lead you into getting fully screwed in the end. Unless you're planning to NOT collect your social security and medicare.
"so you haven't broken the speed limit today, Mark Mc?"
Sure, and if I got caught I would expect a ticket.
Trump promised Mexico to pay for the wall, they said F off to him. Now he is separating family in name of law and prosecuting them(parents) to blackmail politicians from both parties for his wall.
Let me be very clear, let's leave aside the trauma and pain kids and families go through with this separation process and let's look at it's practicality.
Will this building wall and prosecution of migrants deter the and demoralise or stop illegal immigration from entire south America? Answer is nope. Wall , what if they dig 20-30 mile tunnels next to the wall on the other side. You separate families,keep them feed them,house them,provide all necessary things you provide to American inmates and ultimately deport after years of sentences instead of directly deporting them the families immediately. So you spend tax payers money to build prisons and shelters for kids,feed and house them and then after spending lots of money on them for years, deport them. What do they do after deporting? They come back. This cycle will continue
There is only one way to reduce drastically the number of immigrants coming through the Mexican borders every day. Only Mexico can do, America CANNOT. Mexico has to shut close it's southern border permanently to stop illegal immigration into Mexico. Unless Mexico do that, this illegal crossing will never ceases from South abd central America. How America can make an independent country like Mexico shut close it's borders and monitor that they are enforcing that completely with all of it's resources is an impposible task for America. But that's the only way to reduce this numbers drastically.
I'm agreeing with TheYale, BH2, and ProudLiberal:
Can't wait to see the democrats vote YES on the House bill tomorrow that will fix this injustice!!! It's going to be a great day!
Then it can go to the senate, where it will require some democrats to also vote for it- the quicker the better!!! God Bless those democrats, they know how to solve a problem!
Then, Trump signs it. Win Win Win
And we'll have the DEMOCRATS to thank for it!!! Thanks for making the country aware of it (since they forgot to during Obama's tenure), thanks for getting it passed in the house, thanks for getting it passed in the senate. O HAPPY DAY!!!
“Yeah, I get it, you get your racist agenda acted on from him”
There’s a sickness going on here if racism is once again being used as a distraction from the fact that the executive branch of government is doing their job by enforcing the law.
If the law is wrong then why hasn’t the word “Congress” been used more in this thread as it’s the branch of government that is responsible for creating the laws being enforced?
TheYale why is it up to Mexico? They somehow can deter people but we can’t? A wall with motion sensors and other surveillance along with border patrol is what will get the job done. We shouldn’t need Mexico to do anything.
IF the dems sign it JR. If they do, it goes against what they really want. Amnesty for millions of illegals.
A concrete wall alone cost 30 billions, which we were promised Mexico will pay. If you want to put in motion sensors and seismic underground activity detectors and set up control rooms and hire more resources to monitor them for entire coast to coast borders, go for it,but not on American dime and taxpayers money
"Do you feel that someone who hires an illegal/undocumented worker is Anti-American?"
"Feel" has nothing to do with it. They are breaking the law, and should be punished accordingly. And the illegals deported (and their families with them if they came together). Laws mean things. They are SUPPOSED to, anyway.
Don't like the arrangement? Elect a congress who will change the law.
We already pay over $100 billion a year on these people coming here illegally and you're worried about the cost of a wall... give me a break...
"IF the dems sign it JR. If they do, it goes against what they really want. Amnesty for millions of illegals."
LOL obviously I was being a bit sarcastic there- of course the dems won't sign it. BUT if they really cared about the children, they WOULD.
How's that "feel", democrats? Do you REALLY care about the children or don't you? You'll have the opportunity tomorrow to fix this problem- and take credit for it. Will you?
"A concrete wall alone cost 30 billions, which we were promised Mexico will pay. If you want to put in motion sensors and seismic underground activity detectors and set up control rooms and hire more resources to monitor them for entire coast to coast borders, go for it,but not on American dime and taxpayers money"
Oh good. Then you agree an actual wall is the best and most affordable solution. Cool.
This just in: Trump is caving and making a big production out of signing an executive order to stop separating parents and kids, rather than just calling Sessions and saying "stop". He'll call himself the hero. If I set my home on fire with my family in it, then put the fire out, should I expect a statue erected of me in downtown Hackettstown?
Ok, so all you law and order Trump supporters, what do you think? Your boy just caved. Because he knew this was wrong and it was costing him politically. Because it was another poorly thought out stupid idea, like the Muslim ban and so many others. Lord help us get through the next 2.5 years or however long it takes Mueller to make clear exactly what kind of corrupt monster he is.
The only thing Trump has to do is go on National TV and ask for donations from the public. He would get enough money to build 2 walls. The people that don't believe it are the same people who thought he wouldn't get elected.
"Because it was another poorly thought out stupid idea"
...passed by a democrat congress, signed into law by Bush, and ignored by Obama.
Actually, this is GREAT: now the democrats have no more ammo on this issue, and DC can get back to business as usual. INTERESTING how this whole issue (which was going on through Obama's entire tenure as president), only surfaced after Trump's great "victory" of getting North Korea to the table, and starting what appears to be negotiations in good faith... "pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!!!"
Wag that dog.
That's actually a good idea, Auntiel. If he hadn't actually said "Mexico is going to pay for the wall", I think it would totally work.
I'd rather pay for the wall than for abortions, that's for sure.
JR: U are dumb as a brick, I already said if people are not afraid to die to get in,they will scale wall or dig tunnels,Wall or not! Only Mexico can restrict number of human flow through it's borders
"How do you feel about prosecuting these employers (who know exactly what they are doing when they hire illegals) by seizing their businesses, homes, equipment, capital and equity? "
I absolutely think they should and have a proposal.:
Inspecting every employer is way beyond the ability of any of our enforcement agencies to do, and tips are uncommon.
Enter Whistleblower benefits.
Penalties per illegal laborer assessed on employers should be steep enough to make them rethink hiring even one -- perhaps $250,000 per illegal laborer.
Any employee giving information to law enforcement that leads to successful prosecution of an employer for illegal immigrants, provided that employee was the first to give that information, will be awarded 10% of the total penalties that the employer is assessed -- that is, if they have 10 illegal immigrants working for them, the employer is fined $2.5 million, and the whistleblower is awarded $250,000.
And what's more? If the whistle-blowing employee is an illegal immigrant, the whistleblower gets fast-tracked to citizenship if they want it, and immediate green-card status regardless.
"awarded 10% of the total penalties"
Dang... would have loved (if this were the law) to be the one to turn in Asplundh last year... they were hit with a $95M penalty.
The other administrations didn't separate families except in the extremely rare circumstance that someone tried to cross that had warrants and a kid. Sorry.
The poorly thought out stupid idea was the racist team of Sessions, Stephen Miller, Bannon (he's still advising), and Trump thinking this would be anything but a disaster.
You're calling North Korea a win (getting back to the subject of this thread)? Trump got *completely* played by Little Rocket Man.
"Trump got *completely* played by Little Rocket Man."
At least you're back on-topic, lol.
Whew. Who needs SD, HappiestGirl, and Stymie when you've got Proud Liberal, BH2, alpha1beta, and The Yale?
I'm confused. For a week now the President told us that ONLY Congress can stop the massive scale separating parents from their children. It was echoed by Sarah Huckabee Sanders, Kirstjen Nielsen, and other administration members again and again, clearly.
Now he's saying he's going to stop it today. But he said only Congress can stop it. Was he...lying to the American public (again)?
TheYale you're the dumb brick thinking Mexico has more power to stop the flow of illegals than we do.
"So I want to be clear on a couple of other things. The vast majority, vast, vast majority of children who are in the care of H.H.S. right now — 10,000 of the 12,000 — were sent here alone by their parents. That is when they were separated. So somehow we’ve conflated everything. But there is two separate issues. 10,000 of those currently in custody were sent by their parents with strangers to undertake a completely dangerous and deadly travel alone."
STOP CALLING IT "FAMILY SEPARATION." IT'S FACTUALLY NOT FAMILY SEPARATION IF 90 PERCENT OF THESE CHILDREN ARE NOT RELATED TO THE PEOPLE THEY ARE BEING SEPARATED FROM.
CNN in 2014 covering the "Trump created" child-separation border crisis – CNN June 24, 2014 10:00am-11:01am PDT
The poorly thought out stupid idea was the racist team of Sessions, Stephen Miller,
When you are loosing. bring in the magic word. RACIST
BH2, "if a kid comes over and the parent later, so what?"
The point is there are coming here illegally and at US taxpayer expense.
What don't you understand about that simple fact? Is it you're too clouded by your liberal bias to understand it?
"They provably statistically work their asses off, commit incredibly low levels of crime, and again contribute to our social security and medicare coffers without being able to collect."
The crime statistics for illegal aliens are well know and it's high like one third of all incarcerated in federal prisons are illegal aliens. As non-US citizens they are not eligible for a Social Security card, therefore they can't legally pay into Social Security or Medicare unless they are using a stolen or fraudulent SSN.
"This country was built by immigrants, including the slaves." Yes, legal immigrants. Not illegal aliens.
"I'll remind you that Melania Trump used the family unification act to bring her family here. OH MY GOD, THE HORRORS!"
You seem to ignore the fact that Melania came to the US legally as did her family.
Once again you appear to have a comprehension problem with legal versus illegal.
"Taking babies and small children (any children) from their parents, who have tried to do things legally and have only committed a misdemeanor," Right there you contradicted yourself by first stating these people tried to do things legally and then go on to state they committed a misdemeanor. Exactly how did they try to do things legally? Did they apply for asylum at their local consulate? Did they seek asylum in the first free country they entered, which is Mexico? The answer to both is no.
Boy - came to this high traffic topic expecting to read N Korea and amazed to see the segue into Immigration. My 2 cents ... holding employers accountable for hiring illegal workers is the best way to dissuade people from coming and might even encourage the 11 million that are here illegally to leave. That'll free up some $$$ to build the Hudson tunnel instead of a wall.
"Much higher grade than a dumb brick"
Right then. Let me know when you get out of class (and you have something productive to add to the conversation) and we'll chat.
Here's a lesson for you: when you start name-calling the opposition, that means you are out of anything substantive to say. Out of ammo. Let me know when you re-load.
oh and.... psst.... the "racist" card doesn't work anymore. That's what happens when something is overplayed, especially when it's overplayed and false. You should read "The Boy Who Cried Wolf" sometime...
BC - the majority of these folks tried to do it legally by presenting themselves at a processing checkpoint at the border. However, the administration created shortages of people to process them and used the excuse that "we're full" to push them away. It was lies, they had been allocated plenty of capability to process these folks. They knew what they were doing.
For what it's worth, what Obama was doing was evil too. He got called out for it by CNN *and* the Democrats in Congress. They didn't hide like the Republicans are, and CNN called it out, as opposed to Fox, the propaganda network.
If you're worried about taxpayer expense, this new "policy" is far, far more expensive than the way it was being done before.
Oh, for those worried about the rule of law and order, more corruption exposed today, good old wealthy corrupt white Trump administration official Wilbur Ross got snagged doing a little insider trading. Such a wonderful group of people representing us.
Say what you want about Obama, and I didn't agree with him on everything, but at least he made sure he and his administration had integrity, for the most part. Now we have none at all. They're driving us into massive debt while robbing us blind. It's scandal after scandal every day now for over a year and a half.
No matter what party colors you wear, how is anyone on board with that?
JR: Nothing substantive to say, opposition name calling, out of ammo, I give you
Crooked Hillary, Pocahontas, Cryin Chuck Shumer, Liddle Bob Corker to name a few and the list goes on and on ... ....
"Say what you want about Obama, and I didn't agree with him on everything, but at least he made sure he and his administration had integrity, for the most part. Now we have none at all" - BH2
Oh come on, you HAVE to be trolling us all with that statement.
Joe Friday - nobody went to jail from the Obama administration.
Yeah, they tried to "lock her up" with years and years of investigations that never actually found enough to lock her up (I'm not a Hillary fan by any means). But again, nobody was convicted of anything.
Let's see how that turns out for this crew. It's not looking good and we're early in the game.
here you go - you got an EO.
Here's what the executive order would do, according to text circulated by the White House:
It orders Nielsen "to the extent permitted by law and subject to the availability of appropriations" to keep families together during criminal proceedings.
The measure says the administration does not have to keep families together "when there is a concern" that detaining a child with a parent "would pose a risk to the child's welfare."
It directs Attorney General Jeff Sessions to file a request with a federal district court in California to change a legal settlement that curbs the government's ability to keep children in detention.
It orders Sessions to prioritize criminal proceedings for cases involving families.
Trump is correcting the previous administrations failure to act on this issue.
Just because someone doesn’t go to jail doesn’t make them innocent. Come on. Obama’s administration has a lot to answer for.
Suze: every administration has a lot to answer for. Needless wars, you name it.
But what illegal/corrupt acts did the Obama administration do and why weren't they held accountable by the Republicans, who were in control of Congress for most of it? What evidence (non-tin foil hat evidence) was there?
good old wealthy corrupt WHITE Trump administration official Wilbur Ross
There he goes again. Right out of George Soros talking points.
Let's see, IRS scandal, NSA, Fast and Furious to name a few. Remember, not one of these people go to jail or are held accountable for their actions. Happens on both sides of the aisle. At the end of the day, all politicians suck and are only looking out for themselves in my opinion.
It's so funny to see the left's head exploding. It's like popping a zit. Yikes!!
BH2, "the majority of these folks tried to do it legally by presenting themselves at a processing checkpoint at the border."
Answer, that's not the legal method for requesting asylum. You make arrangements in your home country. You don't simply show up on the US doorstep and expect asylum. Again, if they're fleeing South/ Central America, their responsibility is to request asylum in Mexico not the US.
"If you're worried about taxpayer expense, this new "policy" is far, far more expensive than the way it was being done before."
Yet another false statement. There is no "new" policy. It's the same policy that has been in effect for the past ten years, although not well enforced then. The costs are based on the number of illegal aliens crossing the US border due to processing and housing whether separated or not.
And although you seem to want to expand beyond this thread by griping about Wilber Ross or anyone else that's off message and I won't be baited into a discussion with you.
Lastly, you stated; he (Obama) had integrity, for the most part. Now we have none at all. They're (republicans) driving us into massive debt while robbing us blind.
You seem to selectively forget that Obama was sued over his Executive Orders three times and in each case the Supreme Court sided against him. That's known as lawlessness. DACA was a lawless EO too. Obama also nearly doubled the national debt, adding close to $10Trillion with his spending programs. Thus far the republicans have added just under $2Trillion. Not much of a comparison.
The Yale, You had a good comment earlier in this thread, suggesting Mexico should do a better job of securing their (southern) border. If they did, it would cut down on the tremendous number of illegal aliens making it to the US southern border. Excellent comment.
- Benghazi Benghazi Benghazi
-Fast and Furious
-Meeting on Tarmac
-Deleted 33,000 Emails
-"Call it a matter" - Lynch
-Comey calling it a matter
-"It was caused by a video"
-Unmasking Anthony Scalia
-Illegal Back Channel Server
-Obama changing rules to leak
-$1M Clinton Check from Qatar
-500K Clinton Check from Russia
-Rigging election against Bernie
-Paying cash for hostages in Iran
-Spying on your political opponents
-Susan Rice unmasking Americans
-Comey losing evidence and devices
-U.N. Ambassador unmasking Americans
-Comey giving all of Hillary's team immunity
-Smashed phones and tablets with hammers
-Taking meetings for donations at State Dept
-Hillary keeping her Classified clearance out of gov
-Colluding with the Media, getting debate questions
-Hillary hiring DWS after being caught rigging election
-Millions in donations to Clinton Foundation from same members
-Comey not calling a special counsel after Lynch met with Clinton
-Comey going on TV and saying there was no intent for Hillary case
-20% of all future Uranium production to Russia company owned by Putin
-Obama and Susan Rice failed to protect America from Russian influence in our election
But surely if there were even a possibility of illegal activity, the Republicans would have investigated the heck out of those things and brought charges. Well, they did and found no evidence of wrongdoing.
How long did they investigate Hillary for, years and years and nada? Mueller is only a year into it and the Republicans are panicking and saying it's taking too long. And he's already got a boatload of guilty pleas and indictments (not the good stuff though, they're saving that for the big reveal and I have a day's worth of popcorn ready for that show).
I do concur with kb2755 about the general nature of these folks holding office, no matter their party. We need term limits and a severe reduction in all the beneifts they've granted themselves so it's not as attractive to narcissistic, greedy, unethical, opportunistic individuals. Set it up so it attracts those that want to be there for the right reasons, not a bunch of lawyers and corporate types who all want to climb the ladder and take money from lobbyists.
It's over. He signed the EO. That's what you wanted. Done. Over. Problem solved.
Next! Any further talk of this issue will be moot. (until it gets challenged in court, as is already being predicted, and EO countermanding an actual law). So at THAT point, it will be... ding ding ding! ... CONGRESS' job to pass new LEGISLATION. That is the only thing that will change this permanently.
So... nothing new to report on NK, and the "family separation" issue has been solved, albeit only temporarily....
I'm so happy. We did it we call the congressman and everybody in office and we got Trump to sign to let the family stay together. We must unite and stay strong and hope these people this just shows that if we gather and rally and things can happen I'm so excited we did it liberals we got president no heart to do something finally good. This is the best thing that ever happened since no heart president took office. This just goes to show that we have to be together and unite and things will get done. Hopefully next impeach
alpha1beta For your information. I turned off Hannity and Rush off years ago, when they bent over backward defending the first Bush. I even wrote to them, telling them so. All so I am retired living in my Man Cave.
I've never heard such sh-t coming out of a Leader. We must be laughed by other countries, and I should cover my ears and eyes due to friggin' shame, but don't because I need to know what he does next. so horrible.
let's see if his ex Cohen spills the beans. let's see what happens if he takes a lie detector test for knowing about theh pay off of the porn star and for sleeping with her.
HOW CAN SOMEONE, ESPECIALLY IN HIS POSITION, JUST LIE, FIB WITH B.S. COMING OUT OF THAT MOUTH ALL THE TIME AND GET AWAY WITH IT so far. HIS EGO WILL DROP AND EVENTUALLY SOME THING WILL OCCUR, OR A SERIES OF LIES AND WRONGDOINGS UNDER OATH OR IN COURT, OR WITNESSESS (PAST FRIENDS, LAWYERS AND COWORKERS) WILL EVENTUALLLY SQUAL ON HIS WRONGDOINGS, THAT WILL LAND HIM IMPEACHED, HEAVILY FINED. SO MUCH CRAP EVERY DAY, SOMETHING NEW ALMOST EVERY DAY THAT IS CRAZY.
Michael Cohen and the Russian Investigation, Stomy Daniels, and all the rest. Cohen resigned his position and attached the DT administration today. Hope he "flips" fully and cooperates with Federal Investigators. Why go to Jail for covering up for him!
alpha1beta, hope you didn't strain your arm while patting yourself on the back for being so conceited.
I agree with JeffersonRepub (what the...?). We've beat this separation thing to death and it looks like except for some ugly loose strings that will hang around for quite some time, it's done with.
I'm gonna back away from this thread now (do I hear applause?). Sorry I overposted these past two days, I was on a break. Now I have to get back to work, my boss is an ahole slave-driver liberal. (I work for myself).
I did really enjoy the discussion, all sides. We're all together on this blue marble hurtling through space-white, black, brown, rainbow. Who knows what's out there waiting for us.
Metsman: Of course, they can if they want to! To what extent depends on how we have treated them over the years and how much money and resources they want to put in to make the flow of human thinner for America.The real journey for America starts in in Mexico. All Central and southern american illegal immigrants don't fly economy class into here,they travel through land via Mexico.so Mexico can restrict number of these foreigners, why not?
Sorry, borrowing my line doesn't make you a smart brick
JR: why are you so offended by a meme about KKK if you have not taken Ambien?
You can't offend me. I would have to give you space in my mind for that to happen. And that will never happen.
And if I want to read about KKK members, I'll look up old democrats like Robert Byrd.
JR. Good, don't waste any space in your mind on us, I'd be afriad you'd have to forget something important, like English, or Russian, or maybe how to breathe.
"oh and.... psst.... the "racist" card doesn't work anymore. That's what happens when something is overplayed, especially when it's overplayed and false. You should read "The Boy Who Cried Wolf" sometime..."
JR: You directed this to me after I posted a meme about KKK and Ambien. What triggered you think it's implied to you or anyone else here? Making fun of KKK is racist!? Never knew it until you mentioned it JR! Why don't you ask Arthur Jones,GOP candidate and a white supremacist from Illinois
So what’s your point, racists aren’t allowed to run for political office?
The issue raised above had to deal with accusatory racism being used far to often without any proof whatsoever. Coincidently, I just learned there’s a word for when folks do that: calumny.
That wasn't me- I didn't provide you with that link, no wonder you don't know what you're talking about.
TheYale Mexico can't even control the drug cartels that kill thousands of people every year and you want them to stop illegals? That's funny...
Welp, looks like Trump botched the fix. Are you sick of the winning yet?
Now it's getting out that they're shipping these kids all over the country on commercial airplanes, buses, trains, etc and it turns out that from being incarcerated in these internment camps that have no showers/bathing facilities there's widespread spreading of lice, bedbugs, chicken pox, measles, and other fun diseases.
All being sent to a town near you (yeah, they're being sent to NJ too) courtesy of your Dear Leader. How many ways can they botch this? You might want to get to the CVS and buy yourself some Nix and a lice comb before they're sold out or jack up the price.
If you're against the administration allowing these dirty immigrants into the country, it has to really upset you that they're facilitating the spread of disease among them and then shipping them around the country to hasten epidemics.
Way to go, really smart thinking by the great dealmaker himself.
What's funny? Trump cannot reduce the number of immigrants from Central and south America WITHOUT the help of Mexico. They can filter out the immigrants there. You trying to deflect the issue on drug cartels is another example of excuses. didn't you remember when trump threatened Mexico to break up immigrants caravans and Mexico did it? Well,it all depends on how we have treated them over the years and whether they want to put in money, resources and manpower to do it for America
Yeah, I bet that being placed into foster homes (or even DHS detention facilities) with air conditioning, food, water, shelter, etc. is such a drag after the 5-star accommodations they surely had crossing the Chihuahuan Desert on foot.
If it's so bad here they should be glad to go back, right?
"Trump cannot reduce the number of immigrants from Central and south America WITHOUT the help of Mexico. They can filter out the immigrants there."
So, it's OK if Mexico does what Trump does, but not for Trump to do what Trump does? Basically, you agree with what's happening in principle, you just want someone else to do the dirty work?
TheYale, so you expect Mexico to shore up their southern border, but people like you could care less about our own. That's ingenious let me tell you...
Stop using illegal aliens as political footballs. You are race-baiters and think you can only win when they divide everyone up, and foment hate and anger.
Trump asked Mexico to stop caravans and illegals on Twitter,if he could have stopped it from here,he wouldn't have asked
So well if you think trump alone can fix it,then good luck
Illegal immigration rises for third straight month despite Trump crackdown http://thehill.com/latino/391079-illegal-immigration-rose-in-may-despite-trump-crackdown-report
I never baited on race,it's a shame that you feel offended by a meme on KKK, I never knew some people here will try to imply KKK means "White" people. I never meant it that way cos i am white. So, I apologise to few white people here who think I baited race and offended them when I posted a meme joke about KKK and took it personally and implicitly implied themselves as KKK meant it's them
Did I use illegals as political football? Never! I have always said deport them directly instead of separating and keeping them and then deporting them later. It's common sense, that illegal crossing need to be controlled on both sides of borders-mexico and US. They shouldn't have let in all the southern and central americans to travel up to the US -Mexican borders. It's just common sense. Not race baiting nor politics.
"Illegal immigration rises for third straight month despite Trump crackdown http://thehill.com/latino/391079-illegal-immigration-rose-in-may-despite-trump-crackdown-report\"
Which is precisely why we need THE WALL, and increased border security. Thanks for making our side's case for us.
It's the only thing we HAVEN'T tried. Perhaps (of course) we should.
heres some more stellar geopolitical fake news - UN poverty report
"The U.N. report’s main contentions read like an attack on the Trump administration by the Democratic Party: America has 40 million poor people, including 18.5 million who live in extreme poverty; U.S. policies regarding the poor are “cruel and inhuman;” the Trump tax cuts aren’t working and will worsen inequality; and the U.S. needs to spend less on defense of our nation and more on social programs."
"the U.N. report’s main contentions are based on the U.S. Census Bureau’s official poverty measure data for 2016 – the last full year of President Obama’s second term."
so somehow Trump is so influential - he is responsible for poverty figures before he took office.
Illegal immigration is the largest driver of poverty for the black communities in america.
JeffersonRepub - we've been trying walls for a long time. They're an outdated, dumb idea. The money could be spent on much better ways to try to control illegal immigration. Have you seen what it would cost, including all the lawsuits since a lot of the land is privately owned?
Oh geez, I forgot. Mexico is paying for it! Wasn't that the promise made to a bunch of crazed, foaming at the mouth chanting wall fans? What happened to that?
perhaps this President will realize that they way to get help from your neighbors and friends is NOT to alienate them by being a rude, obnoxious idiot. Do you think Mexico, Canada, or any of our Eurpean allies are in a helpful mood toward the US these days?
Maybe his boss in Moscow will help pay for the wall. It will keep us comrades from fleeing when he makes his authoritarian move (as soon as Mueller drops da big bomb).
BH2, Obama did the same thing by dispersing illegal alien children throughout the US. The problems at that time, such as the spread of disease and parasites were the same. Wait until the new public school year begins later this year when these illegal alien children will be attending. Likely there will be outbreaks of disease including unusual viruses and parasites resulting from exposure to the illegal alien children. Same thing happened during the Obama administration.
Cal Thomas today."If emotion is to supersede law, then just about any law can be circumvented if the emotional level is high enough." Good by to the republic.
BC - we're talking about a few drops from the faucet under Obama compared to the fire hydrant that Trump has opened. I'll guarantee you that if Obama sent kids around, they were given medical exams first and made sure to be free of parasites. This effort is the usual rushed, bumbled, botched effort by the Trump group (see: Muslim ban).
Trump & co are panicking now because the reporters are demanding access to where the little kids and girls are, so they're rushing to ship them all over the country to hide them, parasites, diseases and all. I'm sure you all appreciate that. they dont care about your kids.
There was no muslim ban BH2. You'd have to include Indonesia, the largest muslim country, if you were banning all Muslims. Get a life... You're just spinning things to fit your narrative...
June 13, 2014-'Taxpayers are paying for relocating 90K children this year who are illegally crossing the border without their parents.' Rep Cuellar (D) "The problem is the Obama administration doesn’t want to give info to Congress. It’s like they don't want the public to know"
I heard that t here are many newborns and young children missing, that they didn't wind up where they were supposed to (like hundreds (300) were supposed to go to NY, and they can only count 90 newborns & babies & young kids (approx.) in NY. what happened to the rest of them?
"Good luck with the wall which will and must be paid by Mexico as Trump promised"
I don't care who pays for it, better to pay for walls than abortions.
"we've been trying walls for a long time. They're an outdated, dumb idea. "
So when are you be moving into your tent?
Metsman - you didn't hear Trump say he wanted to ban ALL Muslims many, many times during his campaign and early Presidency? Your point is correct, it's just not practical, which is why it was so stupid. The courts agreed it was stupid (again, and again, each time they tried.)
My point is that the attempted Muslim ban was another botched effort by Stephen Miller and Trump. They rushed it out and screwed it up, just like this "zero tolerance" border policy. Measure twice, cut once, someone should tell them. But they're not capable.
And thank you, I did "get a life", it's pretty great.
First off the courts were lefties that blocked it. Second, the countries on the list couldn't be vetted. North Korea and Venezuela were on the list too. Only thing stupid is your logic.
JR: "I don't care who pays for it, better to pay for walls than abortions."
Well, to keep campaign promise on wall means Mexico and only Mexico paying for the Wall. How that's done is up to Trump! Either keep the campaign promise or not, America is not paying a dime for the Wall trump shouted many times"folks, believe me, Mexico is paying for the Wall"
Mexico pays or No Wall! Simple as that. Trump can go to Mexico,beg them, kiss their feet,cry and beg them,do whatever he wants,get his 30 billions for the Wall,then only he gets his Wall. That's what he promised many stupid number of times. He can start building the wall by donating his entire wealth while he negotiates with Mexico
The inability to have a discussion without calling people stupid or saying they need to get a life reveals a lot about a person. They're incapable of understanding that people stop listening when they start throwing insults. It displays a lack of emotional control. Is that logical enough?
You’ve posted some pretty outlandish stuff. Starting to think Proud Liberal and you are related.
"Mexico pays or No Wall! Simple as that."
Boy, I'm glad politics is so "simple", the rest of country hasn't figured that out yet. LOL
If *I* don't care who pays for it, I think you will find MANY Trump supporters will not either. As I said, alot of us would rather pay for a wall than abortions. Or many other wasteful programs.
Besides, if things continue going as they are (up; his popularity continues to climb, this "alien child gate" was the only bump in the road so far), he's got 6 more years to get the wall going :)
And to be CLEAR- let's all agree, for sake of argument, and to lessen typing over and over and over again, "wall" means "secured border." Walls in some places, increased security in others, whatever it takes.
oh, and allow me... "oh no no no no no no!!!!! A wall means A WALL!!! And if Mexico doesn't pay for it, NO GO!"
I'm actually surprised the dems launched this "alien child gate" so soon... they waited 8 years (Obama's entire tenure), you would think they could have waited a few more months, so they could spring it right before mid-terms.... the "october surprise"
JR- this child gate is no more than a smoke screen. The dems using these children as shields like ISIS is disgusting. The only difference, thank God these children are not being killed. Cowards, nothing but cowards.
If anyone here is really serious about prosecuting employers for hiring illegal aliens, you don't have to look far. All those farms on the muck hire them every year and knowingly, and have been getting away with it for years. Oh sure, they check if they have a U.S. issued ID card, which are mostly forged. Same for any SS cards they might show, all easily bought in bulk. The employers aren't required to go any further than asking for a card, even though they know they are fraudulent. They've been doing it for many years.
JR: U can cry and brag about trump supporters not caring for who pays for the Wall. Doesn't matter, wall cash is not going to pass in house or senate. So I don't mind people bragging or taunting here about not caring who pays for the Wall as long as money is not passed. ROFL
Of course,but remember there are some republicans in DC who don't support giving 30 BILLIONS for the WALL which was promised to be paid by Mexico by president
TheYale, Obama sent $150 billion to a country that sponsors terror that could build a wall 6 times over and you're worried about $20-30 billion?! We shell out over $100 billion annually to illegal immigration because of these people being here. We have so much other waste in government and yet this is something you don't want done which would cut down a large amount of this nonsense?! The logic of some is mind boggling... I bet everyone living along that border want the wall. They deal with this crap daily. People in Warren County NJ don't have a clue!
"How much MORE is the U.S.A. in debt now"
Your going to worry about this NOW??? The debt is so deep the U.S. barley can pay the interest without going further into debt!!!!!
Trump has added the least amount of debt over other presidents in this same time frame
In perspective in the first month in office Trump DROPPED the debt by $12 billion.....in comparison...Obummer INCREASED the debt by $200 billion in the same time frame.
Plus....the stock market has been higher then it has in 8+ years....and unemployment is at a all time low....should we go on?
If you want to know how good you are doing financially...just look at your 401k.....mine is better then it was in any of the 8 years of obummers run....but no....can't be Trump!!!!
Barking up the financial tree is a loosing battle for you HR
For those interested in the FULL story, and how these detention centers and "kids in cages" was going on back in 2014 (Obama's tenure), here's a boatload of 2014 pics:
Glenn Beck was reporting on this in 2014. His audience raised 3 MILLION DOLLARS to buy toys and such to take down to the children, and Glenn & his crew did just that. But nobody cared then... it's too dirty of a story to tell with a DEMOCRAT as a sitting president. SHAMEFUL.
Now, I'm not saying it's ok (the situation is a difficult one, with no clear, easy answer), however blaming Trump for it is false, and likewise blaming Obama for it is false. The only people to blame here is the media who IGNORED the story in 2014 (to help Obama save political face), and the same media who is pushing the FAKE NEWS that's it's "all Trump's fault" today, to cause him political harm. It's borderline lies.
And that goes for all the people buying the fake news story hook, line, and sinker; based not on facts but only their hatred of Donald Trump and total belief in the liberal media talking points. They are not truth-seekers.
As far as "yeah, but Obama didn't ENFORCE the law" (like that's a good thing)... the 9th circuit created the whole "catch & release" program, which led to some children being placed with human traffickers.
"Are you a family?"
"Yes" (when they were not)
"oh, ok then, you're free to go"
The crazy 9th circuit (the most overturned court in America) endangered children with this policy.
The truth matters. Some of you should seek it. It will set you free.
@JR "The only people to blame here is the media who IGNORED the story in 2014 (to help Obama save political face), and the same media who is pushing the FAKE NEWS that's it's "all Trump's fault" today, to cause him political harm. It's borderline lies. "
Couldn't agree with you more JR....it's no lie this has been going on for years....but suddenly it's a problem and totally Trumps fault!!!!!! Oh the humanity!!!! How dare Trump!!! Unbelievable really that the left is so hypocritically blind!
These media sources are moderately to strongly biased toward conservative causes through story selection and/or political affiliation. They may utilize strong loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using appeal to emotion or stereotypes), publish misleading reports and omit reporting of information that may damage conservative causes. Some sources in this category may be untrustworthy. See all Right Bias sources.
Factual Reporting: MIXED
Notes: The Daily Caller is an American news and opinion website based in Washington, D.C.. It was founded by Tucker Carlson, a libertarian conservative political pundit, and Neil Patel, former adviser to former Vice President Dick Cheney. The Daily Caller produces sensational headlines and has a right wing bias in reporting and has made false claims according to Snopes and Politifact. (7/19/2016) Updated (4/21/2017)
I don't think ironic is a strong enough word for how you perceive all negative media about Trump as being left leaning, liberal biased, fake news while encouraging others to look for other sources. You basically keep telling everyone to only read articles that support your opinion. This whole forum is like the Alex Jones writers room.
I'm not saying The Daily Caller is some bastion of 100% unbiased reporting. But pictures don't lie. And those pictures were corroborated by Glenn Beck, who WAS THERE IN 2014. Pictures are not "opinion." Unless of course you are putting forth the "opinion" that those pictures were taken in 2018 and TDC is LYING. In which case I'd have to say: "prove it." Show me they are lying ABOUT THOSE PICTURES AND WHEN THEY WERE TAKEN, and I'll give you a mea culpa. But I'm not worried.
Like I have been saying- you need to get your info form ALL sources. If you just listen to CNN because snopes says they're "unbiased" LOL, you're missing a HUGE chunk of the truth. You can lead a horse to water... by they just keep burying their head in the sand as to not upset their normalcy bias.
Nice thing to say about someone who raised $3 million for the cause we are discussing.
"If you just listen to CNN because snopes says they're "unbiased" LOL, you're missing a HUGE chunk of the truth" -JR
Irony is that people believe Snopes isn't biased when it has been proven they are just as biased as any media outlet. That's why it is so important to consider ALL sources, as you state, before forming an opinion. International news sources give a different perspective too which sometimes really makes you think.
If you're serious about learning more about the truth...
"I practically begged and pleaded for people to wake up to what was going on. We had to shed light on how our immigration system was being manipulated by people breaking our laws, and they were using kids as pawns to get it done."
"On Saturday, Beck was in McAllen, Texas, bringing with him $2 million worth of food, supplies and toys to churches in the area that are providing relief for undocumented immigrant families being held at detention centers there."
U don't get it. I don't have problem with building the wall but Mexico must pay for it. It's not coming from govt tax payers money. I said trump can start building the wall with his entire wealth and then he could also do public crowd funding drive from all his supporters and all those who want wall along the southern borders and people living there can donate and build the wall. Nobody is stoping that. But what was promised must be respected. Trump has no right to demand american taxpayers money when he made several promises that he will make Mexico pay directly or indirectly
What Obama did was wrong too. No doubt about it. But, it was a tiny, small couple of cases where the adult who brought a kid had warrants. What Trump is doing is mass incarceration of children who came here fleeing horrible conditions and asking for asylum. They try to go to the legal crossing stations but lied to and pushed away.
The Daily Caller is about as legit as the National Enquirer. It's a joke. Yes, JR, pictures DO lie. They're often photoshopped, have incorrect captions, not of what they say they're from, or when, or where.
Question for all of you "we're a nation of laws and we gots to follow the law" folks. It's not evident that in their panicked rush to send these traumatized kids, some of whom have diseases and parasites, all around the country to hide them from us, they're breaking a litany of federal, state, and local laws. Where's the outrage about all of the illegal activity.
Question for all you fiscal conservatives: Have you seen the numbers on what this botched new "policy" is costing? Many, many times what the prior policy was costing. They're blowing money on commercial flights, paying private prisons and juvenile centers for space, etc. That's your tax money flying out the window. Could be spent to fix the roads, bridges, tunnels that people you love risk their lives on every day.
And no, it wasn't catch and release. over 70% showed up for their hearings and with the newer system it was 96% and they're using GPS ankle monitors now.
TheYale you don't get it... I'll gladly chip in to the wall through taxes. What's $30 billion distributed amongst everyone... And Mexico will pay for it simply. Just don't send them aid and get out of bad deals with them....
BH2 you're a broken record... don't talk to us about bad spending when Obama sent the deficit to historic levels... Every administration has done something dumb.
"These media sources are moderately to strongly biased toward conservative causes through story selection and/or political affiliation. They may utilize strong loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using appeal to emotion or stereotypes), publish misleading reports and omit reporting of information that may damage conservative causes. Some sources in this category may be untrustworthy. See all Right Bias sources."
LOL....4 cat is going to show concern about right leaning and word choices?!?!?!
What is your source of choice!?!?!
Hint: we have been saying this about left wing sites for YEARS....
"But, it was a tiny, small couple of cases where the adult who brought a kid had warrants."
Do you know how to read?
"The Daily Caller is about as legit as the National Enquirer. It's a joke. Yes, JR, pictures DO lie. They're often photoshopped, have incorrect captions, not of what they say they're from, or when, or where."
It DOES say the pictures are from 2014.
"Here they are, taken in 2014 during a media tour of Obama-era detention facilities in Brownsville, Texas, and Nogales, Arizona."
Did you even READ the article? Apparently not.
Prove that they're lying (that the pictures are fake, photoshopped, or not from 2014). Glenn Beck's testimony corroborates the story. You SHOW ME that TDC or GB is lying, and I'll buy you dinner. But for you to ASSUME it's automatically a lie IS THE ENTIRE PROBLEM. You obviously have no interest in searching for the whole truth. You have a story/narrative you agree with (because it further justifies your hate for Trump), and you're sticking to it, facts be damned.
So, who's to say CNN hasn't lied, hmm? There are all kinds of examples of CNN, ABC, NBC, ABC lying. Easy to google. Oh but I guess in their case it wasn't lying, they just made a mistake, right? Mmm-hmm.
I'm providing you with alternate sources- meaning, sources OTHER than the ones you have chosen to believe: CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC. Alternate sources with different information, or perhaps more accurately, sources that are reporting the information the MSM is not.
If you're not interested in searching for the truth, then you're not interested in honest debate, or what's best for this country. You remind me very much of a certain former poster who hasn't been around in awhile....
You go ahead and keep your hatred-colored glasses on, and I'll keep searching for the truth. But your attitude shows us you are no longer worth debating with.
You still don't get it.Those who want the wall must not put it down the throat of those who don't want it to pay it through taxes. There are many who believes trump should keep his promised and get the wall money from Mexico like he promised stupid number of times. That was his campaign promised, if his fans doesn't care about the source of money then they can pay it out of pocket, crowdsource and do fund raising but should never put it down the throat of people who believe trump should pay with Mexican money.
Yale I'm against the wall as well but that argument only opens up the opportunity for the other side to say that they didn't want to pay for President Obama's policies. Which is a fair point to be honest. I think the right should be more upset that he did promise we wouldn't pay for it many times but that's a promise they have to be okay with him not keeping.
Spending taxpayers money on policies are different
from campaign promises of a politcal party. There's a difference. He made campaign promise to be built with Mexican money, if he can get that money from Mexico, I don't mind him building the wall. Building wall with our tax money is unacceptable. They can't argue about policies, bush spend millions on finding WMD in Iraq, nobody's saying anything cos that was policies and not campaign promises. Bush never promised in his campaign that he's gonna used Mexican money to invade iraq. Campaign is made by political party, in this one, trump repeated himself many times Mexico will pay directly or indirectly, so let him go and get the money
"You still don't get it.Those who want the wall must not put it down the throat of those who don't want it to pay it through taxes." this is the first Tax I have ever heard of a liberal being against..
If you don't want a wall and added security then you'll just see years from now how this country will collapse as a power economically... Again... There's so much other waste in government and you're worried about a damn wall... There's something seriously wrong with people like that...
Personally, I don't feel wall is going to reduce illegal crossing. They are already scaling steel metal wall with bare hands and those tall concrete walls with tall ladders. And they are digging tunnels from Mexican town to american town on the border. So, like I said earlier, I feel that efforts to stop illegal crossing has to be put in 100% on Mexican side as well. But I don't mind if trump builds wall with Mexican money to keep his campaign promise.
I mean I'm not sure there will be much to see considering the general consensus is that immigration is a benefit to the economy.
"Those who want the wall must not put it down the throat of those who don't want it to pay it through taxes."
Oh good. Then you feel the same way about taxpayer money going to fund abortions? Fantastic. The Hyde Amendment went a long way towards that goal, but the democrat party wanted to repeal it as recently as 2016.
Reasonable yeah legal immigration helps not people coming here illegally and not contributing to the pot...
The Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) argues that the answer is clear: illegal aliens cost U.S. taxpayers more than $100 billion each year.
I think we have bigger problems and bigger criminals to worry about. Wall Street for one. The Trump administration for another.
Republican (Let's be real here, the people are the top typically vote republican in hopes of lowering their taxes) business owners who hire illegal immigrants knowingly and in mass, to avoid paying people well and their fair share in taxes. We're not talking about picking up an illegal per-diem to work on your house, we're talking about the systematic hiring of illegals, mostly in southern/red states to keep costs down and profits up.
Trump is the one ruining this country as a world power, by pissing off every civilized country and pulling us out of international agreements.
The other big one is the companies who outsource labor, who are literally putting money and power into the hands of another country. Don't agree? Well, just think what would happen to the US if China suddenly matched out minimum wage (minimum wage there is roughly $2-$3 an hour US)
Long Story short: we'd still buy stuff from them, but costs for more than triple on the vast majority of goods, especially elecontrics.
If we increased wages of lower income workers, we'd put more money into their hands - money that would be spent, not saved, which would means the average citizen has more buying power, and could afford to buy American products made by highly skilled Americans. Business owners could afford to raise prices a little bit, and hire higher paid workers, reduce the need for illegal immigrants and the opportunity they have.
And yes, some lower paid workers would lose their jobs if minimum wage rose, but I for one thing that's a good thing. I rarely ever go to the Hackettstown McDonalds, but the people working there have literally never gotten an order right. The customer service would be improved by dealing with robots, and assuming those people could find almost any other job, it would probably be an improvement for them too, vs flipping burgers. So yes, raise minimum wage to $15 an hour, come down heavy on businesses hiring illegals, and I think everyone would be better off - but it might be a rough transition period (Costs of building factories, hiring and training workers etc) and we'd have to stick to the plan and get through it.
Companies who benefit from the government (at minimum personal liability protection for ownership) have an ethical duty not to hurt the country who protects them and business owners have an ethical duty to pay taxes and obey laws.
Think about what $1 an hour (net) increase would do for you - an extra $2000 a year. What would you do with it?
Did you feel the same way about taxpayer money going to fund WMD in Iraq? Funding abortion is policies like the number of times GOP took us to many middle East war! I never went to policies because if we try to compare policy by policy,this argument will never end. Trump's own party congressmen and senators are voting against his wall because they want him to get money from Mexico for his campaign promise
So then it seems like the logical conclusion would be, how can we make it easier for immigrants to come here?
I like how JeffersonRepub keeps trying to nonchalantly switch the conversation to abortions lol
A liberal quoting the GEORGE BUSH Institute?!?!?!
hahahahahahahaha Now I've seen everything. I thought the dogma was "it's Bush's FAULT!" ROFL
I have to quote Obama now...
"With respect to the notion that I can just suspend deportations through executive order, that's just not the case." -March 2011
The problem is, is that I am President of the United States. I'm not the emperor of the Unites States. My job is to execute laws that are passed." (which is what Trump has been doing) -February 2013
"...essentially I would be ignoring the law in a way that I think would be very difficult to defend legally. So that's not an option." -Sept 2013
"The easy way out is to try to yell and try to pretend I can do something by violating our laws." -Nov 2013
"I would be derelict in my duties if I did not try to improve the system that everybody acknowledges is broken." (this is what trump has been trying to do with legislation) -November 2014
As you can see, even Obama knew he couldn't "executive order his way" out of this. Nor can Trump. His EO will be challenged, as it countermands written law. The LAW must be changed. That's Congress' job. But they seem unwilling to do it, they would rather play political football with the issue. BOTH sides.
"So then it seems like the logical conclusion would be, how can we make it easier for immigrants to come here?"
Actually, the logical QUESTION would be, "how can we secure our borders so that we can enforce our laws, and have only LEGAL immigrants?" We don't want ILLEGAL immigrants, we want LEGAL ones. And blanket amnesty 24-7-365 (open borders) is NOT the answer. That won't fly at all. We MUST control our border.
That's a big misconception (oh what the hell, I'll use BH2's term for it: LIE) that your side continues to hold, because for some reason you WANT to believe it: that all Trump supporters want a wall to stop ALL immigration, we don't want anyone coming here, because we are racists, or at least not very nice people. THAT is where you go wrong. We have no problem with LEGAL immigration. We have no problem with people coming here LEGALLY for the opportunities the US (and no one else) can provide. But you have to follow our laws. You must do it legally.
I really don't understand the issue your side has with law. It's like you feel you can just ignore the law whenever it suits you. That's not what "law" means.
You like legal immigration and hate illegal immigration? So your solution is to make it harder to immigrate legally, to push people to break the laws and immigrate illegally?
Immigrants have a lower crime rate than native born Americans so maybe they will have a good influence on us.
"The people are the top typically vote republican in hopes of lowering their taxes) business owners who hire illegal immigrants knowingly and in mass, to avoid paying people well and their fair share in taxes" - the basis of this is what exactly?
by income the parties are pretty equal.
"raise minimum wage to $15 an hour" - well another socialist bastion Seattle did this. lets see how that went.
minimum wages in Seattle increased from $11 in 2015 to $13 in 2016 and $15 in 2017 for large employers.
the study found that higher minimum wages caused a 9.4% reduction to total hours worked by low-skilled workers, or roughly 14 million hours per year. Given that a full-time employee works 2,080 hours per year, that's equivalent to just over 6,700 full-time equivalents who have lost their jobs, just in the city of Seattle. Oh and the pay hikes weren't nearly enough to offset lost hours...
"Importantly, the lost income associated with the hours reductions exceeds the gain associated with the net wage increase of 3.1%. Using data in Table 3, we compute that the average low-wage employee was paid $1,897 per month. The reduction in hours would cost the average employee $179 per month, while the wage increase would recoup only $54 of this loss, leaving a net loss of $125 per month (6.6%), which is sizable for a low-wage worker."
You like legal immigration and hate illegal immigration? So your solution is to make it harder to immigrate legally, to push people to break the laws and immigrate illegally?
There's another one of your problems:
"secure border = making it harder to immigrate legally". It's a "false equivalency" as my nemesis used to say. That would be like saying locking my doors at night make it harder for people to come into my house uninvited.
And our laws & border security doesn't "push" anyone to break our laws. Another false equivalency. That's like saying "well officer... if there wasn't a speed limit, I wouldn't be forced to break it." Nonsense.
JR: Ur arguments falls flat,like I said with majority in house and Senate,trump can't pass his Wall money . So SAD! I am waiting till mid term is over like you to told me to wait.....
Metsman you can refer to the same link I sent you before from the Bush Center.
guess we can add time to the fake news list.. great job.
child was not "torn" from anyone's arms, she was set down so the mother could be patted down.
child and mother were not even separated.
mother willfully SEPARATED HERSELF from her other kids left behind. and this one from her father who was opposed to the move - but he has no rights in this construct..
mother had $6,000 in savings, employed husband, children, but wanted better economic opportunities, so she paid to get to the border, cross a river illegally and sneak in and lied in her claim of "asylum"
Now we get to pay to house her and her child for a year for her due process hearings - unreal.
I mean are you just gonna refute all facts because you hate the minorities at the pool?
Ok so it's ok to let MS-13 stroll on in here and kill people... Thanks for clarifying that. I guess the dead bodies piling up don't matter since you want Mexico to write a check for the wall...
You are not going to "deport" MS-13. First of all, it originated HERE. That would be like deporting Asian tiger mosquitoes. Both are here to stay...
"Mara Salvatrucha (MS), also known as MS-13 (the 13 representing their Sureño affiliation), is an international criminal gang that originated in Los Angeles, California, in the 1980s"
"Immigrants have a lower crime rate than native born Americans so maybe they will have a good influence on us" true fact nobody has an issue with immigrants.
100 % of illegal immigrants are criminals.
For the first improper entry offense, the person can be fined (as a criminal or civil penalty), or imprisoned for up to six months, or both. This is considered a misdemeanor under federal law (18 U.S.C.A. § 3559).
For a subsequent offense, or a reentry (or attempted reentry) after exclusion or deportation, the person can be fined or imprisoned for up to two years, or both. (See 8 U.S.C. Section 1325, 1326, I.N.A. Section 275, 276.) This is considered a felony under federal law (18 U.S.C.A. § 3559).
You are not taking into account their population size - they have an extreme amount of crime for their portion of the population. In 2011, the Government Accountability Office delivered a report on criminal activity by unauthorized immigrants.
They located the arrest and sentencing records of roughly half the immigrants in local jails and state and federal prisons, and then sampled them to estimate what they contained. :
An estimated 25,000 of these undocumented immigrants serving sentences for homicide
A cumulative total of 2.89 million offenses committed by these undocumented immigrants between 2003 and 2009
Among those offenses: An estimated 42,000 robberies, 70,000 sex crimes, 81,000 auto thefts, 95,000 weapons offenses, and 213,000 assaults
Much like the population - the crime is disproportionately concentrated in border states
the below Texas Department of Public Safety report estimates that the illegal immigrants in Texas prisons had committed a total of 2,993 homicides in a state that typically suffers between 1100 and 1400 homicides per year.
"foreign aliens committed 611,234 unique crimes in Texas from 2008 to 2014, including thousands of homicides and sexual assaults."
"From October 2008 to April 2014, Texas identified a total 177,588 unique criminal alien defendants booked into Texas county jails. These individuals have been identified through the Secure Communities initiative, in which Texas has participated since October 2008."
so are they giving rape and murder lessons down there or what?
hey Dodgebaal- Mara Salvatrucha means “Salvadoran gang" here is the FBI report on it.
"(U) According to Los Angeles Police Department gang investigators, El Salvadoran
nationals traveled to the United States from war-torn El Salvador in the 1970s and 1980s and settled in the Rampart area of Los Angeles, California, where they integrated with other Hispanic immigrants. These El Salvadoran immigrants established the gang Mara Salvatrucha (MS) in the early 1980s in response to continual persecution by other Hispanic gangs (specifically the 18th Street Gang). "
once again - you are incorrect.
“You still don't get it.Those who want the wall must not put it down the throat of those who don't want it to pay it through taxes.”
Someone better tell progressive dems. Nearly everything they want ignores this basic concept...
Far more people were killed in this country by white supremacists than MS-13 or illegal aliens, including at least one on live TV last year. Anyone doing anything about that?
I laughed so hard I spit out my drink about the ridiculous comment about somehow these refugees from horror ruining our standing in the world economy--while our President does stuff every day to do exactly that with the idiotic tariffs, alienating our trading partners (and the rest of the world), and giving away $1.5 trillion to corporations that we'll have to finance with more loans from China and upcoming tax hikes on all of us.
100 % of illegal immigrants are criminals.
100% of those who employ illegal immigrants are criminals.
100% of those Americans who employ illegal immigrants are traitors...
The natives have been infected with the MS-13 virus. It is now replicating here even with white American born females.
Your point is moot. Unless you deport American citizens that are infected as well....
BH2 you live in a bubble, so because citizens are killing people it's ok not to do anything about MS-13? With logic like that it's no wonder the Dems are tone deaf...
77 between 1995 and 2015 - that’s comparable. Got any more of that fake news ?
My point was that it was started by foreign nationals to go to war with other foreign nationals. It was not started by US persons as you alleged.
Trumps parade today said Illegal Immigrants killed, 5,300 Americans since 9-11. Just saying.
“Far more people were killed in this country by white supremacists than MS-13 or illegal aliens, including at least one on live TV last year. Anyone doing anything about that?”
From here, there were supposedly only 9 murders recorded in 2016 in the hate group category (no indication of group affiliation so maybe dig into the links:
“Crimes against persons (Based on Table 2.)
Law enforcement reported 4,720 hate crime offenses as crimes against persons. By offense type:
44.7 percent were intimidation.
35.7 percent were simple assault.
18.5 percent were aggravated assault.
0.7 percent consisted of 9 murders and 24 rapes (all 24 rapes were submitted under the UCR Program’s revised definition of rape).
(See Methodology for more details about changes in the definition of rape in the UCR Program.)
0.4 percent involved the offense category other, which is collected only in NIBRS.”
Why doesn't he just stop the chaos already? stop pushing so many limits in so many categories to see what happens, and there has been so many protests in so many categories.. Too much bad is being made into crazy issues (like babies and children separated from parents), it doesn't stop with new (negative) issues. no other one in his position --- without knowledge of US and worldwide and political issues --- ever acted so wrecklessly and crazily.
there is no way he could get voted in again. so many bad issues he's created and he's out there in political rallies in these time of crazy crises trying to get his ego up for another 4 years' win, and this 4-year term isn't even done yet. it's nutz.
Now I see why my friends don't watch TV or read the news any more. If it's not one bad new decision, isn't another bad new decision. and so many flip-flops that you don't know if his head or @$$ is up.
The ignorance of the LLDC on this thread is beyond crazy. They are committing National suicide and don't even know it, yet they vote and breed.
@PL "White people kill .....all school shootings white males"
Wow....Proud liberal...you truly are racist
Secondly...you should fact check yourself on that one!
Here is an idea....any one caught ILLEGALLY crossing the boarder gets death penalty......done deal
Does PL *really* want to get into what race kills the most people?
OK... what say you FBI?
Short version (in case you don't bother reading the link): Black/African American, despite being 13% of the total US population, commit 52.2% of murder and non-negligent manslaughter. In fact, as a race they are *over* represented by at least 200% in ALL categories of crime except DUI and drunkenness. At least they can hold their liquor.
Look it up see for your self. Not saying only whites do but that case so far... Just like you say immigrants are criminals... You kinda hypocritic
"there is no way he could get voted in again."
I wouldn't place any bets on that if I were you. Let's not forget:
"he can't win the primary"
"he'll never win the general"
"he'll be impeached soon"
As long as the Dems, Hollywood Elites, Media bias, and the small minded keep running their mouths. He's a shoe in. They are sinking their own ship and don't even know it. It happened once right under their noses because of their arrogance and it will happen again.
I am married white man test to see how many of you hypocrites. You bash immigrants who seek to be safe. You would do the same. You are racists. If you were in there shoes you would do the same.
You left off part of there names off. "Illegal" That changes the the meaning, Proud liberal
Fk it, proud you have said you are an immigrant before. You have made many many posts. I don't agree with what your doing. You just pull a new trigger word and go on and on. Then you spout some sort of name calling. That won't help.i know it's a lot
But post links.
The invasion of Europe from Central Africa and Middle East...is an agenda.
The invasion of the US from Central and South America...is an agenda.
Any free trade agreement from the first world to the third world...is an agenda.
Erase borders - erase the middle class unions of the west to compete with third world workers making nothing w/no benefits ...is an agenda. Who signed NAFTA - Billl Clinton - oops liberals...
A drive to a 1 world government UN - a 1 world order by the Elites UN ...read your bible peeps it's all in there. Trump may have set them back a few years but the Elites want you chipped and dipped by the UN!
"White people kill .....all school shootings white males" Proud Liberal
You do realize that the 911 massacre was from non-whites. The massacre in France from non-whites. I can go on and on, but it's too much to post.
I usually stay away from these type of threads, however your hypocrisy is so evident, I just couldn't keep quite.
You have added to our ongoing problem of division.
Does your white husband know about or read this thread?
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