2018/19/20 Town Pool Thread

I see that therr are no longer grills around the town pool. Are they getting replaced with new ones.

Dog walker Dog walker
Jun '18

For an accurate answer, I would contact the Hackettstown rec department.

From the town website:

Please direct any questions to recreation@hackettstown.net or call and leave a voice message at (908)852-4095


No the grills are not being replaced. Just removed

Jim L Jim L
Jun '18

I thought that. I believe there is only one left at Alumni pavilion as well.


So will you be able to bring outside food in now and not have to purchase from that consesion stand inside pool fence. Because unless the town is making a big cut of that it does not seam right. Especially since it is supposed to be green acers.

Dog walker Dog walker
Jun '18

Probably a liability issue, though I could be wrong.

Anecdotally, there are more and more people who will bring their families to a municipal pool, spend quite a bit of time there...and kind of not watch their kids.

Regulation density for public recreational bathing areas has increased, again. Other state agencies have either kept pace or stepped up enforcement....because there's money, or justified jobs, in it.

You've got the "tragedy of the commons," opportunistic "communities" and a bunch of lawyers and insurance companies ready to square-off at the first opportunity - personal responsibility be damned.

The old models don't seem to work anymore. Not hard to figure out why....

jjmonth4 jjmonth4
Jun '18

Thousands of people use the Town Pool each Summer. How many grills were removed 8? In my opinion I think there were many complaints by visitors wanting the use of a grill but none were available so they were removed. A HUGE headache!! Green Acres has zero to do with grills
Enjoy the Pools

LittlePiglet LittlePiglet
Jun '18

You can still bring outside food. Just no grilling. Grills have nothing to do with green acres

Jim L Jim L
Jun '18

Umm how hard is it to pack sandwiches and when it's lunch time go outside the pool area sit in the nice grass area just just outside area seriously what's the freaking big deal

Proud liberal Proud liberal
Jun '18

I don't think you are allowed to bring your own food into the pool area.
There are great grills at Stephens State Park. Maybe that's a better place to picnic.

Older Mom Older Mom
Jun '18

Maybe some of the over saturation of people in that grassy area will decrease. Those grills were always used. People that don't have portable grills may go somewhere else now. Fine with me...

Metsman Metsman
Jun '18

Agreed metsman...growing up, the pool was an enjoyable place. Now a days, people are literally elbow to elbow in the pool. Not sure if there is a max limit...but there should be.

There has also been an uptick in crime at the pool in the past few years. I know this has been said before, but there are a lot of NY plates in the parking lot. I am by no means saying that all of the crime is non residents, but why drive all the way to htown to swim? There are plenty of public pools along the way. Removing the grills may help with the overcrowding and crime (though I am sure it will not completely solve it) .

Htownres40+yrs
Jun '18

I was floored last summer dropping and picking up my kids for sports and such at HS. I couldnt believe the amount of over crowding. People setting up lunch in the parking lot. Also I agree so many cars from NY. I really dont understand. I could never b able to enjoy myself with my family with the abundance of people, the grills should be the last problem they have.

Curious Curious
Jun '18

The NY plates are probably friends and family of residents. That should be controlled or capped somehow.


I glad we found out to buy badges. cheaper than to pay everyday. Grills were good. nicer pool then in NY

scootora
Jun '18

Glad there are no grills. if you go during the week, it is mostly locals.

Sport
Jun '18

The town pool had its time. The 80s and even early 90s it was great. Been a horror show for a long time now. Much like Horseshoe Lake in Roxbury, people WILL ruin a good thing. The lake is (has been) a joke and so is the pool. Removing more and more and charging more $. Not I, said the cat

SiaP
Jun '18

Some people are not good about picking up their trash. And I can just see someone standing in the pool waist deep and eating.. then you're swimming along and oh! there's a soggy french fry...

There's a good reason why no food is allowed in the pool area.

hktownie hktownie
Jun '18

Yahooooooooooooooooooooo

stephen stephen
Jun '18

Many locals have been forgoing their memberships and looking to swim elsewhere. Bathing suit rule is not enforced for years, people swimming in shorts and tank tops. The bathroom is horribly hot and dirty.The week days are just as crowded as the weekends, unless you go for two hours during dinner time. All the pool has to do is not allow busses anymore. Very simple.

oldschool oldschool
Jun '18

"All the pool has to do is not allow busses anymore. Very simple."

??????

Jim L Jim L
Jun '18

Wait a minute. . . they removed all the girls from the pool? And there is only one girl left at the Alumni pavilion?

GreyHawk GreyHawk
Jun '18

Fill with Cement and clorox, then salt the earth.

Denis Denis
Jun '18

Good one, Grey Hawlk!

Spring fever Spring fever
Jun '18

Those grills have been there for 20 plus years . It’s a shame to see them gone because of a few complaints .

Michael Michael
Jun '18

A "few complaints " Michael? Have you been by there on a hot summer weekend? It's an out of control situation in that picnic grove, way too many people, literally crammed in there, and when there's no more room, they set up portable grills and picnic on the high school property and in the parking lots. It's become a weekend destination for those from East of here, including NYC. They should have removed those grills at leat 3 or 4 years ago. Return the facility to a community swimming pool, not a weekend resort.

Bruce juice
Jun '18

Grew up going to the pool in the 80s. Great times! Will never return. Was there 3 yrs ago with my child and it was unsafe. Overcrowded pools, many patrons in street clothes, patrons eating all over the place, alcohol being consumed, people yelling and intimidating the entrance cashier, adult patrons and their children not respecting lifeguards, etc.

If you need to have police patrolling the grounds inside the fence then something seriously needs to change. State parks close off admission after reaching full capacity. How come the pool can't? Complete shame.

Harris Harris
Jun '18

The “out of towners”took over the playground as well. I hope this helps bring it back to a nice neighborhood

Ilikeflowers Ilikeflowers
Jun '18

That's what happens when you accept Green Acres Funds.

kb2755 kb2755
Jun '18

" State parks close off admission after reaching full capacity. How come the pool can't? Complete shame."

They do.

Jim L Jim L
Jun '18

Exactly!! kb2755

auntiel auntiel
Jun '18

I walk out my front door to the zoo.... One year people set up a food table behind my vehicle in the apartment parking lot. Every week they make an arrest. Last year some guy climbed the tree by the baseball field and took a leak off of it. People get caught with alcohol. Sometimes there are drug arrests.

Metsman Metsman
Jun '18

Are there town ordinances against the behavior being complained about: pop-up tents in the parking lot and grass area, loud music, grills, etc.? Would this fall under general public nuisance? If not, pass them. If so, enforce them.

No regrets
Jun '18

Jim L - interesting that the pool has a maximum capacity limit. What is the max number? I went to the town website and could not locate this information.

Harris Harris
Jun '18

Green acres funds means a ghetto of a pool experience. We stopped going 3 years back. The cost is reasonable the animals that attend no so much.


Sorry I don’t know the max capacity number off the top of my head. Also there were only a handful of incidents last year mostly during the 4th of July weekend.

Jim L Jim L
Jun '18

Hey BruJu,

As you know someone was getting paid to keep portable grills from being used and not set up on school property. He was also responsible for enforcing other behavioral issues. He was supposed to patrol and report if he couldn't get people to obey. He didn't do too well.

He saw police drive through the lots and didn't flag them down...… remember?

Jim L.,

you're right all public pools have a capacity. The short formula is sq. feet of pool surface area/ 8. I just looked it up in the NJ Bathing Codes.

scootora
Jun '18

Come on Jim L, check the police Facebook again! There were incidents all summer long, even an arrest after school had started when some visitors from East of here were busted in the school parking lot with drugs. They had come intending to go to the pool.

Bruce juice
Jun '18

I used to buy the family pool passes every year... Until about 2 years ago... The unsupervised children allowed to run around and do whatever they want... Urinating in the bushes.. The picnic area is almost impassable due to the families that essentially take up residence there for the day.. Making it a big mud pit with horrible music. Fire started by someone's grill they dumped in the bushes. Drugs in the parking lot.... I would rather spend 3x the money on season passes to land of make believe... Which is what I have done for my kids the past 2 years and will continue to do so.... I don't think the town pool will ever be the same again...

Samiam Samiam
Jun '18

Why isn’t there a police officer dedicated to be onsite. Especially in weekends?

Philliesman Philliesman
Jun '18

I would recommend our foot patrol officer, Vic moves from Main street to the pool on the weekends. That would be a start.


When people from everywhere are allowed to go there, this is what you get.

Metsman Metsman
Jun '18

The problem is not that "people from everywhere are allowed to go there," but rather, people, no matter who they are, are allowed to do whatever they want. Enforcing the rules (or making new ones if needed) may deter attendance if they know its not a "free for all."

No regrets
Jun '18

Our town cops are caught up in busting college kids on soft pot arrests to churn the system. The last thing they want is a racial profile case in a small town by busting out of towners looking for some weekend fun. It's all about the politics.


There are literally 200 people on the grassy area alone during a busy pool day. You'd need half a dozen cops devoted to the pool area.

Metsman Metsman
Jun '18

Oh Jim L(sigh), how is it that you are a councilman and there is sooo much about town that you do not know, yet you are always interjecting your 2 cents.

How did not know that daily busses and large vans of loosly supervised children and adults "camp" at the pool.
End the busses and you can control the crowd a lot better. Very simple.

oldschool oldschool
Jun '18

Correct me if i am wrong but I believe I heard somewhere that some of the profits from the pool support other projects the rec department has. If that is the case then great. I also believe that the amout of town residents that use the pool would not be able to support the what it costs to maintain and the fees would be pushed off in the form of taxes, increased fees for the swimming club and admission.


I could be wrong but it seems to me that intolerance is rampant. ALL pool patrons are equally good....they are also equally responsible for causing the relatively few problems. The veteran adult staff can confirm these facts. The locals do not have a monopoly on goodness and the non residents don't own the problems. I hope Hackettstown Life does not reflect the Town in general because it colors the town a bit judgmental.


There is a new trend..... if something doesn't work perfectly tear it down. A kid gets hurt on a swing set- tear it down...grills are used-tear them down....don't get a job you coveted-tear down your former employer.

There may be more snowflakes or just plain flakes than we think.

scootora
Jun '18

We never use the pool during the afternoons or on weekends. Only during the 30 minutes after lessons end and sometimes at the end of the day when it is quiet.

I am astounded by the crowds, and consequently the junk that ends up in the pool. It seems incredibly unsafe from a lifeguarding perspective. Can't a maximum limit be enforced??

Spence Spence
Jun '18

I don’t understand why rules can’t be enforced. Of course a 16 year old life guard isn’t expected to lay down the law for the animals that show up there. Uniformed officers needed

Philliesman Philliesman
Jun '18

I can't help but to correlate swimming in that pool when crowded to Andy Dufrense trip through the pipe in Shawshank Redemption to freedom.

"Andy crawled to freedom through five hundred yards of s*** smelling foulness I can't even imagine, or maybe I just don't want to. Five hundred yards... that's the length of five football fields, just shy of half a mile."

Red


or this scene from Raising Arizona

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRzTTE41a8M


@scootora "ALL pool patrons are equally good....they are also equally responsible for causing the relatively few problems. " "The veteran adult staff can confirm these facts"

Your facts are not facts at all. You need to go through last years Hackettstown Police blotter, arrests almost every other weekend pretty much exclusively out of towners.

Denis Denis
Jun '18

Scootora sounds like Nancy Pelosi when she said MS-13 are not animals like Trump said they were. Invite these people into your home and lets see how comfortable you'll be...

Metsman Metsman
Jun '18

"I could be wrong but it seems to me that intolerance is rampant." Scootora....that is just what I was thinking....

It sickins me to see some of these comments on here about "these people".

I've always had a hard time when someone states that an entire group of people do this or that..........Just because, say a man from Paterson, gets arrested for drugs does NOT mean every person from Paterson is a problem

I love to see people enjoying themselves at the pool....even the ones that don't share my taste in music......or those that swim in shorts instead of a bathing suits (big deal)....or the large groups of family or friends enjoying a meal together outside of the pool area...

I personally don't go on very hot days because of the crowds, but that is my choice, I'm NOT going to begrudge others for going and having a good time....Im not going to wish they could be turned away.........or wish they could make the pool a "residents only" pool.

Scootora.......NOT everyone from Hackettstown is intolerant. :)

LIVE AND LET LIVE

littlelu littlelu
Jun '18

intolerant of grown men peeing from tree's, peeing in bushes, telling the lifeguards to go F themselves, drinking in the pool, doing drugs in school parking lots, yep put me down as intolerant.

Denis Denis
Jun '18

I agree Denis! It was the end of school last June I believe that the principal jumped on a car because they were doing drugs in HS parking lot. It was a NY and they were at the pool. It made for a delay of our students leaving the parking lot. HMMMM. Live and let live..... like Hackettstown doesn't have a big enough drug problem?????

Curious Curious
Jun '18

Denis some of these people don't get it. People who can behave themselves while enjoying the pool are welcome. I personally don't want to have to worry that some fool is going to take a piss on my $35,000 jeep... Excuse me for wanting to feel my possessions are safe. Or I also have a toddler that enjoys the park. Should she be subjected to stupidity like that too? I love the people who come on here and throw intolerance out there and try to make it stick...

Metsman Metsman
Jun '18

Being intolerant of criminals is one thing, but to group ALL out-of-towners into that catagory is wrong.....that is my poiint.

littlelu littlelu
Jun '18

The issue will not be solved until people start discussing the issue.

Rebecka Rebecka
Jun '18

Ahhh the problem with society today. Live and let live. Who cares about the rules or law. Poor people from the city just looking to have a good time. Nothing wrong with anarchy

Philliesman Philliesman
Jun '18

yup...stereotyping makes some people feel good, maybe even superior.

scootora
Jun '18

I think it's been pretty well established that a majority of the undesirables and animal like actions have occurred with out of town people. The frustration is that our misguided little town bit the apple took green acre funding which means no private pool for us. Want to go to a nice pool, go to Chester it's private costs more and the people won't piss on your plate or steal out of your cars. Nothing like living in a nice town, but need to use the services from other towns that have a clue.


I guess if being disgusted by watching drunk grown men pee through my fence, pee from a tree branch, pee all over the pool field, selling and doing drugs behind my house and in the high school parking lot, parking all over the grass at the school, on the field and blocking me and my neighbors in our driveways, screaming profanities that can be heard inside my house all day long, grilling on the street in front of my house and then leaving all their garbage, food packaging, cups, beer cans, cigarette butts, and dropped food on my grass and in front of my and my neighbors houses (so we have to go out every night with garbage bags and gloves to clean up their mess), LOUD boom boxes each playing a different LOUD song and/or sitting in their cars, with their super stereo systems blaring at full blast, drunken fist fights behind my house, my kids long-time friend coming over to tell me that people were having intercourse in the pool in front of everyone (he will NEVER go back!) and that it freaked him out, and not being able to swim in my own town pool all weekend due to severe overcrowding by people who would do all the above makes me intolerant, well then I wear that badge proudly, I AM intolerant of this.

Laurel Laurel
Jun '18

+1,000,000 Laurel!

Metsman Metsman
Jun '18

+1,000,000 Scootora

"yup...stereotyping makes some people feel good, maybe even superior."

The INTOLERANCE of an entire GROUP of people (out-of-towners) because of the actions of a few is what I find unacceptable!

littlelu littlelu
Jun '18

Take the blinders off for once

Philliesman Philliesman
Jun '18

We no longer join the pool , half of the people there are from out of town ! I have seen drinking in the parking lot at the high school , and from the New York travelers ! I guess impaired people are allowed in the pool, somebody needs to do a head count , and test the water more often ! What happened to our town, it gets more like the city everyday , too bad, welcome to the new Dover !

All American All American
Jun '18

I guess a murder has to take place before people wake up... I just hope a bullet doesn't go through one of my windows or front door and kill someone in my family... I wouldn't be shocked if someone has come packing to that pool.

Metsman Metsman
Jun '18

Your right Metsman ! They really need police presents , between the pool, the parking lot and the train station ! Do people really think drugs are not being sold , perfect cover for a dealer! Anyway not my problem , glad we swim elsewhere !

All American All American
Jun '18

Our town cops are too busy making soft arrests for pot. Wake up they love to fill up the blotter with just how safe they made it busting a 20 year old with less than 2 grams of weed. Unless they're beating up woman at the beaches or pummeling a man standing outside 8 against one, they really don't do much protecting and serving. More like revenue generating and fear presence.


Laurel-- do you know what the penalties are for seeing everything you claim and Not calling the cops? If you see something/say something. Right? A year later?----- Very questionable civic responsibility...……..

scootora
Jun '18

Scootora give me a break... Where does she say she didn't call the cops? If you call after the fact and the people are gone, what are the cops supposed to do?

Metsman Metsman
Jun '18

Scootora probably arranges the buses to come from Hillside and Irvington to use the grills and encourages the urination out of trees. Sees no problem with savage behavior please.


scootora at least half the things she mentioned were reported on the Hackettstown police FB page last year, and all the arrests were people from out of town.

Denis Denis
Jun '18

Lets use Don's logic. Since he feels the local Police are worthless. Let's disband them, and when a problem arises, call Don. He knows exactly what to do and how to prioritize crime..

Boobalaa Boobalaa
Jun '18

Don some of your points are valid, but the beating up of unarmed people? Cmon... The idiots that get beat up are resisting arrest. That's their own fault.

Metsman Metsman
Jun '18

True Metsman true, but what about the recent even in Mesa, AZ? 7 on 1 they knocked the guy out he was looking at his phone, oh by the way he was black. Shocker. I know it's not every cop. There are more good than bad, but something stinks in the culture of that career path. Something needs to be changed because they are losing respect. And once that's gone it's going to be pretty hard to be a police officer.

https://www.npr.org/2018/06/07/617827228/arizona-police-officers-on-leave-after-video-showed-them-punching-unarmed-man


Yeah and the cop landing the blows on the guy is also black. We don't know what went on prior to the event either.

Metsman Metsman
Jun '18

scootora, there are absolutely no penalties for Laurel seeing those things and not reporting. New Jersey does not have civilian "Duty to Act." Please post the statute to which you are referring that leads you to believe otherwise.

No regrets
Jun '18

Sure we don't know what went down. But he wasn't armed, and they out numbered him like 7 to 1 plus i'm not sure but I thought this was outside a courthouse. The excuses for these above the law cops is getting thin. If you can look at that video and see that the cops are using the acceptable amount of force for the situation, then I question your judgement.


“In fact when the 3-4 cops we have can set up click it ticket campaigns and hide in bushes to pull over drivers to gain revenues,”

Wait you think we only have 3-4 cops in town?

Jim L Jim L
Jun '18

All in it's probably more like 20 with all the sgts and if you count the dog. I was being somewhat facetious. In fact for the size town we have, and considering Mansfield and Washington, and Independence all have their own force, I question why we can't consolidate.


I would say the black cop repeatedly punching him was excessive. I didn't see the other guys hitting him. They just kept him in position. Hey it happens, there are tough guy cops that go over the line. I've never heard of any of our cops doing this. So IDK why this is even a topic to be discussing. Are you afraid one of them will go Rocky Balboa style against someone?

Metsman Metsman
Jun '18

Our cops do not do this. I'm just pointing out that a society that has above the law cops and courts to protect them is a bad precedent to set and sends the wrong message. We can go back to discussing the pool now for which we agree. :)


Don.....why is using the grills an issue????

I don't get it.

I'd like to know how the heck does anyone know where the people are from who use the grills, or play music...........

All American.....how do you know that HALF the people that use the pool are out-of-towners?????

These are the points that make me shake my head at the thought process of some posters..I am NOT saying I think it's right for anyone to break the law, but I keep seeing over and over people that are against folks just eating with their friends and families and playing music....

littlelu littlelu
Jun '18

Maybe scootera and littlelu would like to invite all the people causing these problems around to their homes. You know, see how they enjoy this behavior up close and personal.

My family stopped going to the pool several years ago. Seriously, even an Intex from Walmart is a better option.


littelu, the fact is that of the multiple arrests made in an around the pool last summer, almost all if not all were out of towners. That's not speculation, those are facts as their town addresses were posted on the HPD page. You can shake you head but facts are facts, If there is a problem with people breaking the law at the pool, and the people arrested are from out of town it's not a leap of intolerance to call it as it is.

Denis Denis
Jun '18

If you really wanna see Hackettstown residents' head's explode, ask them which brings more crime to the area, the new CVS or the public pool?

Reasonable Reasonable
Jun '18

littlelu every person who camps out on that grassy area are Hispanic. They camp out there the whole day. If these people were from around here they'd spend a couple hours there and go home.

Metsman Metsman
Jun '18

Wonder if they'll still allow the pop up tents this year.

concernedparent concernedparent
Jun '18

I guess taking the grills out worked. Some guy asked my fiancé about the grills and said he won't be coming back. This opening weekend was not crazy at all.

Metsman Metsman
Jun '18

Over the time that I have lived in Hackettstown (20 yrs) the pool complex went from being a lovely, well-used but comfortable place for our family to being an overcrowded cluster ..... of so many people that the water "warms" up and is dirty and gross by early afternoon, such a shame that it is so overwhelmed that it is no longer used by many of the town's own residents.

rleaf rleaf
Jun '18

The new America based on statistics:

"Nationally, the new projection posits a “majority-minority” population by 2043, but for younger age groups, the tipping points will come much earlier: 2018 for children under age 18. This reflects the recent growth of younger new minority populations including Hispanics, Asians, and those identifying as “multiracial.”

So basically White old goats (declining) and young Hispanics and Asians plus Multiracial. (increasing WOW 2018!!)

While whites have been enjoying game rooms and vacations, Hispanics and Asians have been having children. You will need teachers to teach all of these children, they need to be paid well, and homeowners will be taxed to make sure they are educated.

With Social Security and Medicare going bankrupt, the heat is on.



https://brook.gs/2Mw2DqO

Dodgebaal Dodgebaal
Jun '18

Like buying a house near an airport.
If you don't like being near a noisy, rowdy pool, don't buy or rent near one.

Botheredbyuu2 Botheredbyuu2
Jun '18

Botheredbyuu2 you're kidding right... an airport and pool are two different things. The airport stays within its boundaries. When people are setting up food tables behind your vehicle or pissing off trees on school property or selling drugs that's a problem. Thank god they got rid of the grills....

Metsman Metsman
Jun '18

Botheredbyuu2 - I PURPOSEFULLY bought my house 28 years ago BECAUSE I had been to the pool many times throughout the 1970's and early 80's with family members who lived in Hackettstown back in the day and I loved it so much. The pool was the REASON I bought my house.

I LOVED living near the pool for the first 23 years. It was fun to watch people diving off the high dive from our deck, listening to the kids having fun splashing and convenient for my husband and I to pop in for a quick dip or (in his case) swim some laps after work.
Later, when we had our kids, the pool became a godsend. They spent their entire summers running back and forth with their friends to the pool all summer long. Both my children learned how to swim there and my son was on the swim team. My husband trained for the swim section of his triathlon there.

It is only in the last 5 years - the last 3 being the worst - that the pool has gotten TOTALLY out of hand. The overcrowding, the class of people (I don't care where they or from or what color they are...they are rude and obnoxious), the total disrespect shown to the property around the pool, the drug use and drug sales in the parking lot and fields, the garbage left strewn all over the place, the loud fighting and swearing, turning Warren Street into a BBQ area, public drinking and pot smoking (and the ensuing drunken brawls that follow), the loud music and general boorish behavior, obnoxious attitudes and total disrespect for anyone or anything is A NEW ISSUE, ONLY IN THE LAST FEW YEARS AND GETTING WORSE EVERY. SINGLE. YEAR.

Why this type of behavior is being ignored and why it seems acceptable to some of you on here is beyond me. We NEVER needed police guarding the pool area, parking lot and the fields before. I guess this is what you and the others on here that are fine with this crap consider "progress."

And it's my fault for buying a house near the pool? That's just dumb. Who would have ever thought that the beautiful Hackettstown pool would turn into this? I am hoping this year is nothing like the last 3 years. I am hopefully optimistic.

Laurel Laurel
Jun '18

Amen Laurel,

When there needs to be multiple officers on foot patrolling the pool area....something needs to change. As my SN states, I am 36 years old. I was born here in town....raised here in town. The pool used to be so much fun. Both of my parents worked. From about 7th grade on, my mother would drop me off at the pool during her lunch break. I would swim there from 1 until 5. I also attended teen night there.

Now I have 3 children of my own. I brought my older 2 to the pool last year and was in shock by how much things have changed. Not only was the pool overcrowded, the swearing, the lack of respect for life guards who tell you "walk"...it discusted me. Never again.

EG_1982 EG_1982
Jun '18

The rules are clearly posted for the pool area. There should be something added to make it clear rules also apply to the surrounding area.

Then the rules need to be enforced and people ejected if necessary. Once word gets around about that, hopefully things will get better.

Who pays for the enforcement? I guess it's town taxpayers. Or increase the cost to enter the pool, to cover the cost of the bouncer.

hktownie hktownie
Jun '18

The state of the pool has gone completely inner city. It's no longer appropriate to go as a family or take small children. The people that come from who knows where have brought an element with them. You can call it racial bias all you want, but pigs are pigs no matter what the color of their skin. They are sub-human and have the ability to ruin an entire community pool. Hackettstown is non too glad to take their money. Spend the money to go to Chester or Panther Valley, they haven't sold out to the welfare system.


The crowds changed on ONE DAY in 2015 thanks to two things:

1. Hopatcong State Park closed on July 4th due to over crowding

2. Thanks to social networks, the overflow came to the pool, word spread and The Town and Rec. Commission has been dealing with issues ever since.


The Town removed the grills, raised all of the prices including Senior Citizens, and the police are giving tickets. The pool can close its doors to additional customers whenever the manager decides to.



Give the authorities a chance.

scootora
Jun '18

The numbers should dwindle now that the grills are gone. These people would make a day out of it with their food spreads. Now it’s a less attractive place for them because they’ll either have to buy food there or leave the property to eat.

Metsman Metsman
Jun '18

Hope so Metsman hope so...I'd love to come back to the pool, years ago when we moved to Hackettstown, we enjoyed it, and used it for swimming lessons and weekend outings. Let's see what kind of grilling goes on in the parking lot, from what I can remember people brought their own small grills and took care of business in the lots.


It really makes me want to cry. My children learned not to fear water in the baby pool and graduated to the "frog pool," and then on to all the pools. It was so much fun. Four years ago my sister brought my niece here from San Francisco and remembered all the fun it was bringing my kids to the pool and wanted us to take my niece. We were there maybe 1/2 hour when we had to leave. My sister was SHOCKED and was asking what the hell happened, "Is this the same pool?!?!?" It was total bedlam, rude people, big kids knocking over the little one's in the baby pool, twenty-somethings making out all over the place (laying on their blankets practically having sex in front of everyone, ewww), garbage and tons of hair, band aids, even a tampon floating in the pool, people in non-bathing attire and babies in regular diapers in the pools -- just GROSS. It was a sad day and I was embarrassed and felt so bad. It was the last time I stepped foot at the pool, sadly.

The glory days are over and it really upsets me that there are people on this thread and people in this town that think this is somehow a good thing.

Laurel Laurel
Jun '18

Like i said earlier in the thread. The profits from the pool help fund other things for the rec.


Oh boy I just signed my children up for lessons should I not send my children there

Proud liberal Proud liberal
Jun '18

C.J....for the sake of tracking money..... what do the actual profits of the HT pool fund for the rec dept? As a mom of a 2nd grader who plays softball, soccer and basketball for the rec...I pay $5 per sport. I know they pay for the tee shirts.....but the coaches are volunteer. I am aware they have a 1st aid kit and and some balls for soccer and basket ball. We bring our own helmets and bats for softball
Am I missing something?

EG_1982 EG_1982
Jun '18

Maybe field repairs insurance I'm sure the town needs to have 4 players in case they get hurt? I could be wrong but this is what I'm thinking

Proud liberal Proud liberal
Jun '18

So we have a pool that locals can't use due to outsiders abusing it so a few local kids can play sports. Lovely!

John C John C
Jun '18

CJ. - so are you saying that ruining the pool and surrounding area is justified because some of the (ill gotten) money goes to the rec??? What exactly is your point?

Is there someone who says to themselves, "Hey, I know this is totally ruining the pool and the people who live around there are suffering and our own townspeople can't use the pool anymore, but hey, we get money for softball so its worth it"? And, why was the pool able to sustain itself beautifully all those years with just the residents paying dues and now they can't?

I also don't understand what exactly changed in the last 5 years or so that the pool and the pool experience went down hill so fast and so badly. What was the change that occured, anyone know?

Laurel Laurel
Jun '18

There’s no reason why they can’t charge the prices other towns do for sports. You get what you pay for with that $5. You’re just paying the salaries of the Department head, the guys who groom the fields, and the officials with those profits. This isn’t the ghetto where people can’t afford to enroll their kids in sports programs. I don’t understand why they do it this way. Instead we create a ghetto at the pool so little Johnny can play baseball cheap.

Metsman Metsman
Jun '18

Everyone needs to go to the town meetings, are taxes go up and the services go down ! How many people swimming pay taxes to this town , compared to outsiders !
The police need to give out tickets, and a head count taken every hour to shut the oool down ! Drinking , smoking, and peeing on trees and lawns are reasons for tickets !
They should also bring in the Canjne unit for drugs! That's what happens at city pools, lets make them feel at home !

All American All American
Jun '18

I agree jack up the admission for out of towner's to the point where they go back to opening up hydrants back where they came from.


Pool /Rec management needs to step up and enforce policies. Bottom line is that someone needs to step up and do their job.

I recommend - Pool Guidelines should be provided for each guest in English/Spanish. If people don't comply with the rules/guidelines they will be politely escorted from the property - regardless, Age, Race, Ethnicity.

Pool Patrons are guests Htown Pool and visiting our pool is a privilege - and they/we are all guests.

htownnewbie htownnewbie
Jun '18

@Proud liberal, forget about all the disgusting nonsense that happens around the pool. If you got the test results for what's in the water you wouldn't want them swimming in the pool. To all the people who say that's why they put chemicals in, with the size of the crowds, you can't possibly keep all area's clean the entire time its open. Chlorine might kill germs but I still wouldn't want my kids swimming in sweat, urine and fecal matter. I'm sure your pediatrician would back me up.

Denis Denis
Jun '18

Just to speak to the issue of trash, I run through the pool and high school parking lots daily. Our high school students and visiting guests for athletic events and performances do a remarkable job of keeping the parking lots clean. The amount of trash increases substantially when the pool opens. This includes used many swim diapers,

My suggestion is that Hackettstown outsiders be charged to park, in addition to the fee to enter the pool. This money should go directly into the beautification of the area, and repairing the sidewalks and curbs around the school.

H-town Runner
Jun '18

“As a mom of a 2nd grader who plays softball, soccer and basketball for the rec...I pay $5 per sport. I know they pay for the tee shirts.....but the coaches are volunteer. ”

EG your $5 doesn’t even cover the cost of the t shirt. They cost $10. So the rec covers the uniform, equipment, league fees, ump/ref fees, insurance. The hard cost comes out to close to $100/ kid. So parents pay $5 per kid and the rec covers the rest.

And Metsman the pool $ has to go towards rec programs we can’t used that money for anything else. Green acres funding requirement

Jim L Jim L
Jun '18

Wow! I recently moved here and found this site and was so happy to see there was a town pool until I read the comments! I'm shocked really that out of towners all the way from NY or Paterson find their way up here and are allowed to use the town pool. I specifically moved to these parts to avoid those people and the issues that come with them. I remember when I was a child my aunt lived in Paramus where there was a town pool with strict regulations regarding who could use could the facility which was limited to the town residents and a limited number of their friends. I expected that's how it would be here. I read something about funding of some sort in the comments. Is that why it's open to anyone? I would've liked to go but doubt I will after reading this.


The conditions of the pool water are most certainly in question. No doubt they let those pools run at unsafe levels. They need to be shocked and treated on heavy days which would require patrons to leave the pool while deep cleaning occurred. They really just want the money and bodies and could care less about sanitary conditions. Not to mention the savages that truck themselves out here would bathe in raw sewage just to cool down. But I bet if you charged parking and double the fee at the door it would keep them in their urban jungles.


The pool water is tested throughout the day. If there was a problem, it will be dealt with.

Sport
Jun '18

"Not to mention the savages that truck themselves out here would bathe in raw sewage just to cool down."
-Don

What the hell is wrong with you? With an attitude like that along with the painfully obvious abundance of ignorance you spew is reprehensible. And YOU are judging others. Unbelievable.


Jim L...my taxes are nearly 14k...I live on Carriage Rd. Hunters Brook....so 5 bucks means nothing to me either......I pay my dues......

EG_1982 EG_1982
Jun '18

EG you asked what other fees there are for rec sports so I explained it to you. No your $5 fee does not cover the actual costs for your kid to play Rec sports. And yes other towns have high taxes and still charge $50-$100 per sport for their town rec programs. Hackettstown charges $5.

If you think a “first aid kit and a few balls” are all that is needed to have a Rec program then you are misinformed.

Jim L Jim L
Jun '18

The water exercise classes are great with music and certified water exercise instructors. A great way to get a cool, low impact workout. All ages can benefit. Swim lessons for the kids are great there also.

Ragdoll. Ragdoll.
Jun '18

Have lived in Warren County over 50 yrs, just outside of Hackettstown. I always thought the pool was for residents only and limited of friends, like ALL the other Town Pools I knew.

Removing the grills might help...Or think about along the Delaware they bring in gas grills strapped to top of their cars... The areas in Easton that they can't control the people parking all over, and like the Delaware leave terrible trash all over..I went to Crater Lake last year on a Sunday..It was filled with cars with NY Plates..They had Pop Ups and coolers the size of freezers, dogs running without leashes,,young kids in water NO ONE watching them..Loud music.. Hey they were staking their claim of their spot...Sure they had been there since Fri night by the debri around them. People were sleeping under and on top of tables, tents set up...

When any of Us go into the city we appreciate it, won't trash it and respect it. Why is it too much to ask of them to do the same...OR SIMPLE stay away. !

Smile every day Smile every day
Jun '18

Let's be thankful the pigs don't live here , for now ! We work hard to keep our town clean and trouble free, let's get some support on this! Police need to get involved and start writing tickets and telling them to leave ! It's that simple !

All American All American
Jun '18

Have the Town return the Green Acres Funds they received for the Community Pool. Problem solved.

kb2755 kb2755
Jun '18

I can just see how this will turn out. The Police will be pressured to step up patrols and enforcement. They in turn will write tickets and attempt to stop the rude behavior, until someone screams racism is the reason for the Patrols and tickets. Then the following lawsuit. Its a shame but that's the direction our country is taking. We turn a blind eye until its so in our face something has to be done. And an incident happens, no doubt started by the perpetrator, someone videos it all, leaving out what started it all, and now the Police are the bad guys.

Boobalaa Boobalaa
Jun '18

Oh that’s definitely going to be the outcome - make this a law enforcement issue and then criticize the methods of enforcement and a constant demand for body cam footage - this is a microcosm or what’s going on in society right now.

Skippy Skippy
Jun '18

The rec programs.are not there to make super stars out of your children. You can do that by paying for private lessons and joining travel leagues.

The rec programs i think do a great job getting kids out of the house moving around. They also help bridge the gaps with the kids in different schools. It allows them to take on challenges recieve instruction and yes criticism.
Some families in town can't afford more then $5. Just because they live in a nice house and drive nice cars doesn't mean they are not having trouble making ends meet. I am glad that the rec programs only charge $5. It really builds lasting memories with the kids and that is who it is for.


If a state park can turn people away when its full. How does a community pool not become full.(I imagine the town pool and parking would fit inside the state park) Cars park all over the school lots and not in parking spaces. Maybe limiting the pool to the number of legal spaces would help

Justpassinthru
Jun '18

I can see the pool is looking like our town, turn a blind eye and it's no longer our town ! So sad to see what's going on ! There is a reason there are so many homes for sale , think about it !

All American All American
Jun '18

I tell alot of people hackettstown is becoming the new Dover. Most of them agree. There is nothing wrong with that, but how does this happen. It was shifting slowly, but seems to have sped up a large amount past few years.

Forcefed4door Forcefed4door
Jun '18

“Have the Town return the Green Acres Funds they received for the Community Pool. Problem solved.”
-once a project is green acres it is forever. Can’t decide to not make it public. The loan has been paid off a long time ago


“If a state park can turn people away when its full. How does a community pool not become full“
- it does and they do. The pool has a limit and when they reach it they stop letting people in

Jim L Jim L
Jun '18

Jim L - then the quota needs to be lowered. Have you ever seen the pool on a Saturday in July??? Cars parked ALL OVER (on the grass in the pool field, packed into the HS lots, on the HS grass, up and down Warren Street and over into Madison), The pools completely full of people -to the point that nobody can "swim," its just hundreds of people bobbing in a crowd. The police back and forth, frustrated lifeguards, people peeing in the bushes, spilling out into the fields...

I want to know what the limit is.

Whatever it is, it needs to be lowered by 150.

I really wish you would stop making excuses and stop defending what's happening over there the last few years. I don't care what the "reasons" are, its totally unacceptable and is ruining the pool. If you are involved with the rec department you should try to make this better, make changes, improve this...not make excuse after excuse.

Laurel Laurel
Jun '18

Jim L when people overflow into the apartment parking lot and are grilling on Warren St and overrun the HS parking lot, they should have stopped letting people on the property a lot sooner. Time to have someone take a head count at the entrance of the parking lot.

Metsman Metsman
Jun '18

C.J., I agree. For $5 bucks they are making memories. I just disagree with people saying the pool offsets the rest. Tax money paid by residents who live in town pay for the rec dept to mow the fields, buy equipment, etc. Not the pool. The pool is a separate entity.

EG_1982 EG_1982
Jun '18

I'd rather see them take the pool money and make better playing fields. How about putting up fences for the baseball and softball fields. Build a nice little football field on Warren St. Stuff like that. CJ that's ridiculous to say people can afford nice houses and cars but can't come up with money to pay for sports programs. I don't make a ton of money and we have nice cars and I just shelled out hundreds of dollars last month for my son to play in a summer collegiate baseball league. I think people can scrounge up with $100 or less like every other town and pay for the programs.

Metsman Metsman
Jun '18

Metsman, i know a few people who have moved to town that were in a good place but lost a job or had a medical issue in the family. Locked into a mortgage and car leases and were pretty close to losing it all.
One family i know the husband took on a new job then lost it 8 months later and didn't have the old job to go back too. Got a new car to make tge commute. Now he works two jobs just to keep everything going. The wife is also working more now.

Things change businesses move and down size.


EG 1982

As Jim said, yes the fees from the pool off set the costs. Did you ever wonder where the difference in fees for the Resident and non resident come from for TSA? It would be nice to get that to put towards Jr Tiger Lacrosse.


By LAW pool fees can not and they do not go toward sports fees. The profit, if any, must be used for Green Acres facility maintenance and upgrades only.

All of this talk about fees is nonsense.

scootora
Jun '18

If that's the case then there should be plenty of money judging by how overcrowded that pool is with non residents....lol. We should build an indoor pool with a retractable roof for our swim team with that money lol. ;-) residents only of course!

EG_1982 EG_1982
Jun '18

It is a great idea (posted above) for the parking lot to have an attendant right as you turn in off Warren street and for them to be able to turn away cars once all designated blacktop spots are full. Sure they can still find a spot along Warren or other nearby street, but once word gets out that it is no longer a free for all, the crowds will reduce.

What the town allows is what will continue.

Harris Harris
Jun '18

Laurel I am not making excuses I am giving you facts. People make statements but they are factually wrong:

1) "just jack up the price for non town residents": you can't, by law out of town pricing can't be more than double the price for in town residents. So Rec would have to raise the price on Hackettstown residents in order to raise the price of out of town residents.

2)By LAW pool fees can not and they do not go toward sports fees: The profit, if any, must be used for Green Acres facility maintenance and upgrades only. - Wrong they can be used for the town's recreation program as whole

3) Give the Money back and make it not green acres anymore: It is green acres for life, can't back out of the agreement.

http://www.nj.gov/dep/greenacres/pdf/regs.pdf

7:3625.10 Public access to and use of funded parkland

"Did you ever wonder where the difference in fees for the Resident and non resident come from for TSA? it would be nice to get that to put towards Jr Tiger Lacrosse".: TSA is not a rec program it is a club sport

Jim L Jim L
Jun '18

The only solution is for residents NOT to spend their money on the town pool. Let it fill up with undesirables and animals and let the pool staff worry about what to do. Let the cops worry about what to do. Spend your money elsewhere, for the privacy, cleanliness, and proper behavior. In life you get what you pay for, this was cheap sell out way for the town. I believe the pool wouldn't survive without the residents, the trash doesn't drop in until the weekends. They aren't utilizing it for swim lessons. Maybe stage some ICE appearances to "round" up what shouldn't belong.


Jim,
TSA is a sports program and receives money from the rec program in Hackettstown. That was from the previous director of rec. And a TSA member mentioned it as well when a non resident parent was asking why they had to pay more then a resident. "Have your rec program pitch in to lower the cost."


So Jim L, what you are saying is, there is nothing anyone can do...

"Sorry, not sorry; learn to deal Hackettstown folks, the 3 year transition period from beautiful, clean, family friendly town pool to inner city, drug infested slum will be complete in 3...2...1..."

Laurel Laurel
Jun '18

There should just be a no grilling policy. That'll get rid of the rest of the people who bring portable grills. The undesirables will just find another spot to ruin.

Metsman Metsman
Jun '18

why are people allowed to bring grills and endanger local residents properties of fire?


"So Jim L, what you are saying is, there is nothing anyone can do..."

Did I say that? The town removed the grills, that was a good start. The Rec needs to enforce their rules and the police need to monitor the area. Which they did last year.

but we can not turn this into a town only pool, or raise the rates on non town residents without raising in town residents. I suggest you call the police anytime you see what you said you saw happening again..

Jim L Jim L
Jun '18

Sounds like the HTown community needs to get together with the HPD - voice concerns about our children's safety, pollution, pool over crowding, Parking etc. and request action now. Put our tax money to work? enough is enough. time to take a pro-active stance instead of passively complaining on this forum. Protest in front of the pool ? Or in front of the Rec. Dept.?

Who is ready? to take a stance... (crickets???..)

htownnewbie htownnewbie
Jun '18

It's interesting people complain but they don't go to the town hall meetings. If you're concerned about the safety because of the pool go to the town hall meetings express your concerns. Also come up with ways in order to help suggested to the board

Proud liberal Proud liberal
Jun '18

Who wants to go in on a food truck with me? I wonder is zoning allows it. We can call it grill works.


I'm ready. My neighbors and I are the ones who finally got the town to paint the curbs next to our driveways yellow. We bitched on here, called the town, called the police called the mayor and went to multiple town meetings. I'ts just frustrating that everyone knew what was happening (people LITERALLY getting blocked in their driveways - not just a little) The police would drive by and see it, and did nothing. It took a lot to get it taken care of. Now with the pool...does the town and the police not know what's happening - sure they do. But, we have to protest and march to get this fixed? Hmpf...

Laurel Laurel
Jun '18

So when a town takes "Green Acres Money "....then they own you... and you can't control your town for saftey issues..well being of residents...that pay crazy taxes and now they don't have any say ?.

Will read up more on Green Acres and of course look for the money trail...

Sure most of you know about the Columbia Dam, others on the hit list... look to previous take overs...example is White Lake. All the restrictions are blamed on the Rec Dept....Really ? Did they come up with can't put your toddlers toe in the water ? ... The conversatory..and what ever they call them selves have their own agenda..and they are paid by tax payers ..restrictions put in, gates put up...

Voters did not want the removal of Columbia Dam...But who over ruled them and went ahead anyway..Why put it to VOTE...PEOPLE WHO PAY...have enjoyed the lake for generations and now that is taken away...

Oh yes, one last thing..Those Groups only pull out their what ever turtles and frogs when it means big bucks for them and loses big time for People or towns that already bought the properties... Follow that money trail......

Smile every day Smile every day
Jun '18

When you are at the pool, just driving by or in your yard and see illegal activity or inappropriate behavior (like having sexual intercourse in the pool or on the pool/school grounds, alcohol, drugs, public urination, etc.) call the police and tell the pool Management. If the pool is way overcrowded, patrons are in street clothes, tell the pool Management. If everyone just leaves the pool disgusted and doesn't voice their concerns about the problems or acts, then we contribute to allowing the pool to be what it has become today. If the police and Management get bombarded with substantiated complaints then the town has no choice but to make changes.

I would support an increase in the out of town and in town rates for the pool. A couple of dollars increase may be just what it takes to keep out the trash.

I truly hope the removal of the grills helps, but it is so much more than that - I just can't see the grills making that big of an impact. Its definitely a great decision and a small step in the right direction though.

Here's to remaining hopeful that one day soon we will get our great town pool back.

Harris Harris
Jun '18

Smile every day - there is no beach access at White Lake, it is not a swimming lake but a host to a unique marl ecosystem and a paradise for anglers and outdoors people. There is no need to swim there - river wading can be enjoyed at many access points along the Paulinskill trail or Footbridge park nearby. Rare plants like pitcher plant, lady slipper, and a host of turtles, loons, and other interesting natural wonders can be observed and enjoyed much better without setting up a swim area.
Columbia “lake” became a sludgy, murky, oxygen-depleted retention basin that was filling in rapidly with phragmities/small islands like any “landlocked” body of water will do. The last time I tried kayaking upstream from the dirt road there, it was unpleasant and full of vegetative growth. The Paulinskill River had flowed freely through there and will again.
Responsible Land management has nothing to do with Pool management.

kepa
Jun '18

Jim L
The state park turns people away when the lots are full. The town pool does not as is evident by the parking. If the town did this and not wait til the inside reaches the overcrowded mess the problem would be alleviated greatly.

Justpassinthru
Jun '18

And then when a Hackettstown resident walks to the pool and gets turned away because the lot is full, they're gonna come here yelling about how "it's unfair", and "I've been living here since the great depression", and wahh wahh whatever you people find to complain about every single day.

Reasonable Reasonable
Jun '18

Fill it in with concrete, then build a new one at one of our parks.. And no green acres this time.

John C John C
Jun '18

“The state park turns people away when the lots are full. The town pool does not as is evident by the parking.”

The parking lots are not the town’s property they are the schools. Nor are they just used for the pool

Jim L Jim L
Jun '18

So the solution is to do nothing and let the parking be out of control?

Justpassinthru
Jun '18

Sorry, John C... that wont work either. Once you sell your soul to Green Acres, they exert control over your entire inventory of recreation and open space facilities, not just the ones they directly contributed to.

ianimal ianimal
Jun '18

And who is going to pay for the new pool John C. these are not 10k specials...


Justpassinthru If they are legally parked in the parking lot or on a Public road what do you think the town should do?

Jim L Jim L
Jun '18

So if the lot is the school's property and people are parking there and are not'at a school function that is tresspass. No different if you walked threw an unlocked gate and walked on the running track at the stadium.


Nope not at all CJ. Obviously the school and the town have an agreement in place to allow use of those parking lots.

Jim L Jim L
Jun '18

The cars are parked along the edges of the lot and in spots that are not spaces. Hence over filled lots. So what will the town do?

Justpassinthru
Jun '18

Jim L seems to really like the fact that the pool and surrounding area is turning into Detroit. If he has anything to do with the rec dept, I think he has to go - he obviously doesn't care about our town.

Police blotter full all summer with news of arrests for various illegal activity at the pool, trash strewn all over, people peeing everywhere, fights, drug use/sales, people parked on the grass, in non spaces, in the field, drunken brawls, loud profanities being screamed all day long, multiple and varied LOUD music playing constantly,the pool itself overcrowded and dirty, police needing to be at the pool and in the parking lots, bedlam on surrounding streets and at the apartments, etc, etc,. Yet Jim seems to be fine with it. Not one suggestion.

Laurel Laurel
Jun '18

Reasonable, by posting “and wahh wahh whatever you people find to complain about every single day” means that you’re complaining about other people complaining. Crap, now I’m complaining about you complaining about someone else complaining. Where’s the Tylenol?! Lol

SiaP
Jun '18

Jim L ,

Pool revenues are Absolutely not , by law, usable for running rec. programs and are not used for that purpose. Please do not rebut what you lack knowledge of. The state will be happy to audit the town if you persist.


Pool staff does enforce rules. When people don't listen the cops are called. When cars are parked illegally, that is an ordinance violation and they are to be ticketed and towed.

scootora
Jun '18

So glad we stopped going. If for nothing else with all that humanity bathing in those pools there is no way for them to properly balance the ph. Oh, yes there was the one time they actually whistled everyone out because they water became unsafe and needed to be treated after a fecal incident. How fun.


sccotora thanks for the advice but sorry I know what I am talking about. fees collected can be used for the rec program as a whole. I didn't say they are used for running rec sports but they don't have to be used just for the pool itself:

(d) A local government unit or nonprofit shall use any fees it collects for the use of funded parkland or a recreation and conservation facility on funded parkland for operating, maintenance, or capital expenses related to its funded parkland or to its recreation program as a whole. A local government unit shall establish a separate
account to serve as a repository for the fees, if permitted to do so by law.

http://www.nj.gov/dep/greenacres/pdf/regs.pdf

7:3625.9 Fees for use of funded parkland and recreation and conservation facilities on funded parkland

We can not use the fees to hire a police officer or pave a road but we can use it for rec program. Case in point, the Rec dept agreed to put $75k toward the new lights at Tannery field improvement project. Which is all public information shared at both Rec and Town Council public meetings. The Rec money is kept separate but can be used for other rec needs not just the pool.

"Jim L seems to really like the fact that the pool and surrounding area is turning into Detroit. If he has anything to do with the rec dept, I think he has to go - he obviously doesn't care about our town."

Really Laurel where did I say that???? People are throwing out suggestions on what the town should do and I am stating why we can't do those suggestions. It's easy to say the town should do this.. or the town should do that but the are reasons we can't do what most have suggested such as raise the fees or give back the green acres $ and make it town only or have a parking attendant at the entrance of the parking lot. .. As for my own suggestions, I make them at Rec and Town council meeting where the decisions are actually made not on a dopey online forum. Funny of all the problems people state we have we didn't get a single member of the public show up to at any rec or council meeting last year to discuss them. Not a single person. hmmm

To help you out Laurel the next town rec meeting is Monday July 2nd 7:45 at the community center. And the next town council meeting is Thursday June 28th at 7pm at the municipal building. I will be at them, will you? If not then which one of us "doesn't care about this town" ?

Jim L Jim L
Jun '18

Jim L, can you tell us the amount of Green Acres funds(loan) that the Town received and what those funds were used for. Thanks.

kb2755 kb2755
Jun '18

sorry kb2755 I don't know the figure off the top of my head as the pool dates back decades. the money received was for the purchase of the land and the construction of the pool. Those are the only things green acres funding could have been used for.

I can tell you, regardless of what scootora says, the rec program has used pool fees to make numerous upgrades to other recreation projects. Including the new playground next to the pool, the exercise equipment along the Riverfront Park walking trail and fixing the tennis courts. Money collected from the pool goes towards the recreation program as a whole not just the pool.

Jim L Jim L
Jun '18

This is not really that uncommon. Not fun, I agree, but this can happen at any pool where small children are present.

"Oh, yes there was the one time they actually whistled everyone out because they water became unsafe and needed to be treated after a fecal incident. How fun."

Dodgebaal Dodgebaal
Jun '18

All I know we built our own pool precisely because of our town pool. We as a family could not even tolerate being there. The behavior is exactly what people on HL are saying. I occasionally go and meet up with friends at Belviderepool and its always quite nice.

For all the residents that would like to have that once beautiful pool and great family time back, we as residents need to take it back. Get together go to the meetings, call police when you see something. There however is 1 thing I dont understand is during school hours cops are all over at HS, why during summer are they extinct????

Anyway complaining on HL is not getting anywhere unless our voices are heard at the upper level.

Curious Curious
Jun '18

I think "common" describes the pool perfectly.


Funny Jim L, I guess either you weren't at the meetings yourself last year, or you forgot; but I, and my neighbors, DID attend the town hall meetings last year regarding the parking, the pool, the crowding, etc. .

If you are trying to tell us that the town has no idea any of this is an issue you are lying. I personally have made it known to the proper people what is going on (as if they need to be told - where are they, they don't notice???).

So, the residents of Hackettstown have to go to meetings to beg, plead and yell to get a remedy to a situation that is well-known in town? They know about it, why not just figure out how to fix it?

Laurel Devine Laurel Devine
Jun '18

Jim L you take the time to read the comments on here, how about you do your job and do something about it.

Metsman Metsman
Jun '18

"Funny Jim L, I guess either you weren't at the meetings yourself last year, or you forgot; but I, and my neighbors, DID attend the town hall meetings last year regarding the parking, the pool, the crowding, etc. . "

That is not even close to being true. I was at all but 2 meeting. The Jan 1st meeting and the Oct 12th meeting I missed. At no point at any meeting in 2017 did a member of the public get up to discuss the pool. The meetings are recorded and the minutes are noted online. Find me the meeting you attended.

http://www.hackettstown.net/governing-body/

Jim L Jim L
Jun '18

I guess my neighbors and I were tripping when we complained about the craziness regarding the pool in the summer and the and the football games in the fall and how the parking and craziness were off the charts the last 3 years.

So, Jim L, are you saying that the town and the police don't have a clue that the pool is a problem?

If I go to the next meeting they are going to be SHOCKED that this is going on at the pool and surrounding area?

Is that what you're saying???

Laurel Laurel
Jun '18

"I guess my neighbors and I were tripping when we complained about the craziness regarding the pool in the summer and the and the football games in the fall and how the parking and craziness were off the charts the last 3 years"

I guess so because none of you actually were at a meeting in 2017. Laurel, The last meeting you attended was the Sept 22, 2016 meeting and that had nothing to do with the pool, just football parking on Warren. Didn't see you all of 2017.

Jim L Jim L
Jun '18

With all due respect, I don't feel Jim is stating that at all. He merely pointed out that in the official records of the council meetings, the minutes, there is no evidence of a citizen attending a meeting and standing up and formally addressing the board regarding the pool issues et al. If that was the case it would most certainly be recorded in the minutes.

I gather the town officials have heard mention of the atmosphere at the town pool the last few years. Clearly they have begun to remedy it in part by removing the grills.It is a start.


I was responding to Jim L stating that the citizens need to attend meetings about the pool.

I am trying to figure out why.

Do I have to go to the meetings because the town doesn't know there is a problem? Are they not informed about this after all this time?

If they don't know, that's pretty odd.

if they do know, why has nothing been addressed, other than the grills being removed?

Jim L keeps avoiding my question.

And the last thing I am going to say on this (as I am getting nowhere anyway) I did got to the meeting with 2 neighbors, I don't care what the minutes say.

Laurel Laurel
Jun '18

" Funny of all the problems people state we have we didn't get a single member of the public show up to at any rec or council meeting last year to discuss them. Not a single person."

Are the only suggestions taken seriously the ones that are made at meetings? There are many ways to communicate, and having identified yourself as a member of the town government you should welcome all methods, not belittle them (on what - to many people - appears to be THE Hackettstown forum). Do you not take phone calls, emails, or letters seriously either?

Quite frankly, your dismissive attitude here towards the residents of "your" town PLEADING for you to help fix something (where you'd rather just focus on taking attendance) is very disappointing.

Mark Mc. Mark Mc.
Jun '18

Hey Jim L how do I find the public forum section of the council meetings? I just looked at the minutes for the meetings I attended and the ones I know my neighbors attended and NONE of our names or what we spoke about are on any of them (or any other resident for that matter and there was a guy having a fit about something right after I spoke and its not there either...?). Where do you find that info, I would like to see how they portrayed our speeches. How do I find that?

Laurel Laurel
Jun '18

Hackettstown government at it's finest. Good ol' boys getting nothing done. Maybe you can give Mango a third job in charge of picking swim diapers out of the pool on weekends. All it takes is looking at the corruption of a small town to see the larger picture of corruption across all of government.


Meeting minutes do not always reflect every comment or discussion. They are only required to include official action that was taken. Many times it will only say "there were 4 members of the public in attendance who addressed the council."

No regrets
Jun '18

Laurel if you look at the minutes you will see near the beginning where the public forum of the meeting took place. It will say:

"Mayor DiGiovanni asked if anyone from the public would like to speak at this time."

And then directly below that will list the name and address of the person that got up and a brief summary of what they spoke about.

If you think you attended a meeting and you were on listed in the meeting then that is an issue. You can request a audio tape of the meeting from the town clerk to hear the

But I will tell you no one came to a 2017 meeting to discuss the pool



To answer your question that you say I keep avoiding, the town is aware the pool has gotten busier and we have patrolled the parking lot more and have a police officer patrol the inside of the pool area as well throughout the weekends. Last year July 4th weekend was crazy, yes no doubt about it, didn't help that the state parks/beaches were all closed that weekend Do they catch every infraction? probably not. We got rid of the grills this year so to say the town is not doing anything is not accurate. You even pointed out the arrests and the police presence which shows we as a town are patrolling the area more.

Jim L Jim L
Jun '18

The Hackettstown Pool is a wonderful facility. On a hot, humid weekend afternoon of course it is going to be crowded. (Probably every public pool within 50 miles is!) The pool is used for swimming lessons, exercise classes that are a great benefit.

I've here for 37 years - the pool has been a great blessing to my family.

EVV


The pool is great for swimming lessons, they close it to the public for that. And if you don't work and can use it during the week on an afternoon or early evening, it may be fine. Just avoid on weekends when it goes inner city Camden style.


Okay well, I know we can't go back to the idyllic, wonderful Hackettstown pool of 20 years ago, but as long as the town is seriously trying to make this better I'm good.

I do have three suggestions that maybe someone can bring to the proper person that could implement them...and they would simply be
1) Lower the occupancy allowed.in the pool
2) Parking only in the parking lot and only in an actual lined parking space
3) No eating except in designated picnic areas

I believe these three things would be allowed under the Green Acres rules and would fix 75% of the issues causing the turmoil. The other 25% could be handled inside the pool by enforcing the rules and throwing people out when they break them.

Laurel Laurel
Jun '18

I have to laugh at people telling Jim L to do his job. He is only one person and there are others that sit down there on Stiger that you all keep reelecting.

Jim Cant just go down to the police station and tell the officers to do this and do that. Just like the school board member can't walk into a classroom and tell the teacher how to teach. There are rules involved. Now i am sure our police chief has done a few things to try to get a hold on things. I am sure there were a few things they learned from last year that will help them enforce ordinances and laws this year. Let's hope we don't end up in the news with some of our enforcement or with an ordinance that my be deamed unconstitutional.

It's NJ anything weird can happen.


Laurel, your ideas are nice in fantasyland, but look no further than Seaside as to what would happen if hordes of people that just drove from NY were turned away at the Pool. Well, I believe you may get your headlines, Mr. Ismay.

SiaP
Jun '18

Quite frankly, I don't know why Jim L gets on here and tries to talk common sense. Judging from these comments, you'd think many of you were the Alpha and the Omega.

How do you propose Jim changes an agreement with Green Acres that was implemented far before his time? That I am fairly certain, was before anyone that is currently on the town council voted on the project? Unfortunately, the consequences of those prior votes are beyond those who are in power to change them.

You ask why town council/government members listen more to those who show up to meetings in person, give their name, address, and list their concerns for the record? Seriously? Is that a real assertion?

Perhaps because there are many people on this board posting behind pseudonyms. (like me, to prove the point) I could live in town, out of town, or be an internet troll from Pakistan.

Perhaps because there are many people on this board that assert one thing in person, one thing on this board, and another when faced with leaving a name and address for the public record?

I find it interesting how many names seem to change here, from different forums, different posts, or topics, yet the grammar and syntax are remarkably similar? Remarkable coincidences.

There are problems at the pool. They are being addressed, change doesn't happen overnight, and must operate within the law. I see talk of the Chester pool. I the median sale price for a home in Chester is $580,000. Hackettstown, $270,000, if memory serves. Think that might make a smidgen of a difference?

You speak of corruption, as if you know what it means. Are you asserting that because Jim L is on this forum, attempting to give answers to these questions, that he is dishonest? Committing some sort of fraudulent conduct with his absolute power? Give me a break.

Looks like the folks you keep "re-electing" make about a $4,000 stipend for the year. Looks like they have paid off the town debt from another forum, with taxes increasing ever so slightly due to a large decrease in ratables on the town level. County taxes, and school taxes make up the vast majority. Taxes in New Jersey are a massive problem, period. It is not a Hackettstown problem.

Seems to have a decent rec sports program, that is cheap enough for all children to participate, a few nice, well maintained parks, and a BID district that puts on at least a few nice events for the year.

Perhaps you should take a look at how other towns spend their money, their debt levels, and actually consider that towns don't all have the same amount of resources, regardless of how much you think "this town was great back at X date."

Perhaps even think about the fact that because you believe that everything "was" perfect back then, through your rose colored glasses, that the inability to adapt to the changes we have seen has put the town exactly in the situation that you rail against? You can't have it both ways.

Hell, maybe you could even thank Jim L for the job he is doing, as a part of the local government. Certainly beats the keyboard warriors hiding behind their pseudonyms bashing every decision from the armchair quarterback position. The irony being that some of the most vocal critics on this board might just take a paycheck from the town?

How's that for irony?

The pool is not perfect, the town is not perfect. That being said, I think the attempts are being made at improvement, judging from this forum. Half of your concede that the local government is taking action in the midst of your complaints...

That means that for all the kicking and screaming people seem to be doing about the town doing nothing, change is being introduced, albeit slowly, according to the wishes of the residents.

Storms_End Storms_End
Jun '18

16 paragraph diatribe, hmmm who could it be behind that pseudonym. That's an easy one.

Denis Denis
Jun '18

Who has time to read it?


I don't think it's who you think he is.
I understood every paragraph.
If it were who you think it is, he would have lost me by the second paragraph.
Unless he's changed to a new writing style to throw everyone off...

Spring Fever Spring Fever
Jun '18

I should have said he/ she in above comment... Sorry!

Spring Fever Spring Fever
Jun '18

Thanks for making my point Ijay. It's easy to get on here, and spew whatever ridiculousness you'd like.

Confronted with facts, opinions, and other nonsense. Jim shouldn't even waste his time. 16 short paragraphs is too much bother, but these people talk about town budgets hundreds of pages long, NJ Law/Codes, as if you knew it like the back of your hand.

Such authoritative experts on the matters at hand. Right.

I hope everyone has a fantastic evening.

Storms_End Storms_End
Jun '18

You might be right Spring Fever? I didn't see the numerous links that usually are included.

Denis Denis
Jun '18

Members are being let in at 11:30 M-F this summer. Nonmembers at 12.

Older Mom Older Mom
Jun '18

the pool was opened in 1975. I'm sure those who decided to go with Green Acres funding way back then didn't think that many out of towners would know about it since that was 14 years before there was an internet and 30 years before social media blew up.

Jim L Jim L
Jun '18

Riverfront Park Green Acres too?

scootora
Jun '18

Everything in their ROSI (Recreation and Open Space Inventory) has to comply with Green Acres regulations, even if it didn't receive any Green Acres funding...

http://www.nj.gov/cgi-bin/dep/greenacres/facproc.pl

ianimal ianimal
Jun '18

So, yes?

scootora
Jun '18

Without Green Acres funding there would be no pool. Years ago the town could not support the cost.

Sport
Jun '18

No scoot, Riverfront (aka Seber's grove) was donated to the town. It didn't cost them a dime. Just a couple of back room deals and they acquired it in 2001.

auntiel auntiel
Jun '18

oh. big relief. Thanks auntiel

scootora
Jun '18

Auntel- I may be wrong but I understood all of the improvements to the land such as the fields, courts, gate,.parking lots, pavilion, trails etc,etc, was done with Green Acres monies. Perhaps just the acquisition of the land was a deeded gift.


oh. that was done during the internet age?

scootora
Jun '18

So the town sells out back in the day to put a charity case pool in. Today the town's residents pay to go to Panther Valley and Chester all while paying ridiculous property tax. This makes me think that the people who sit on boards have zero clue and no foresight.


Don, who are you to judge the people who sat on those boards "back in the day"! Why don't you sit on a board and see what it is all about? People make decisions based on what is needed at that time as well as the foreseeable future. Who knew that camps and people from out of town would come like they are. The pool staff need to keep on top of the crowd by hiring more staff, if needed to keep people safe and patrolling the grounds diligently.

Sport
Jun '18

Maybe we should make our own fund for our own private Town pool. Go to the town meeting and bring up that idea. Then we could have some degree of control over who comes and goes. Members only, with guest passes, and permits for special small gatherings.

Older Mom Older Mom
Jun '18

My mom grew up in Glen Rock (Bergen County NJ) and we still have friends/family there. They have had a town community pool since my mother was a kid (the 1950's!) which is still going strong. It's a beautiful, clean, relaxing town pool. You must be a resident and must have pool passes. There is no daily fee, only season passes for Glen Rock residents. Residents can bring a guest, but the guest has to purchase a pass for the day, that says in big bold letters, GUEST. There is a pavilion that can be rented for parties for a few hundred bucks but if there are any non-residents invited to the party, they have to have a party guest pass that costs extra.

The pool is clean, relaxing and never crowded. That's what Hackettstown pool was for it's first few years.

Never get the government involved in anything!

Laurel Laurel
Jun '18

Hey the town has had no problems in keeping up raising property taxes to stay in line with every other NJ town. I sure the board back then thought they were getting over by putting in a town pool and selling their soul for it. Maybe the town back then didn't have the tax revenue or resident backing to put in a private pool. But surely whoever made this decision then, knew what it meant for keeping the pool private. Maybe they never saw it coming, but knew the risks.

Wayne also has a nice private pool. This is problem with Hackettstown, it gleams of sell out. Check cashing stores and cash for gold stores on Main St. Pool open to any and all. Stores that can't stay open for longer than a year before fading away. And all for the practically the same tax base as Roxbury and Mt. Olive and in some cases less.

The pool is a shinning example of what too much government brings.


Panther Valley lets non- residents use the pool ? Do they have problems ?

Janster Janster
Jun '18

We often go to nearby state parks that run by "government" funds. All of them on a hot summer day crowded but NEVER look out of order. All have grills. The difference is - they ALL ENFORCE order. Lifeguards acknowledge every offence to swimming rules, even the smallest ones. If their requests are not followed, the troopers or police are called immediately and summons are issued. People often complain how strict rules and how steep fines are. And because they don't like it, they go to less strict places - to Hackettstown pool. Enforce rules, summon or arrest everyone who is not following orders and much less people will come. Town doesn't have adequate police staff - call state troopers. Unfortunately it will never happens. Pool brings huge income, that's why pool administration doesn't want to lose revenue and decrease number of visitors.

Pool is not open when it can't get a huge crowd that brings income - stop by in the evening during week: parts of pool are closed or pool is closed early. I am glad it opens for members at 11:30AM as someone mentioned above. What about members who are working and can come only after work day, at 6PM, 7PM? What about members who come just to swim regardless if it's hot day or a cloudy one? Who cares about them? They are not "money making machine".


The pool is awesome.

scottso scottso
Jun '18

Panther valley lets non-member use the pool and golf course. It used to be private but now they do memberships. Pool only, pool and golf with various clubhouse privileges if you choose to add that.

http://www.panthervalleygolf.com/membership_types

I haven't kept up with the costs, but it does become pricey if you add food. But it is private to those who can afford membership.


So if I want to use the pool at Panther Vally, I just need to go to the Security Gate and tell the attendant I want to use the pool? I don't think so.

kb2755 kb2755
Jun '18

I say we all go to the town meeting June 28th at 7. I feel for the life guards. People are pretending to drown. The rules needed to be posted in English and Spanish and it should be clear that people that engage in inappropriate or dangerous behavior (clearly listed on a sign entering the pool) will be removed from the pool and not be refunded their money. The consequence for multiple offenses should be no re-entering for the rest of the summer. One of those should be fake drowning, arguing with lifeguards or pool staff, littering on the grounds, in the parking lot or in the pool. Radios and music should not be permitted. (Last year there were soda cans in the deep end). As residents, I think we should start saying things to people at the pool when they are engaging in rude and obnoxious behavior like teenagers cursing really loud or are making out in the pool or knocking kids over. Maybe we can close the pool at 6:30 and everyone has to leave. Non-residents can re-enter until 7:30?

just a thought just a thought
Jun '18

What about just no busloads? Maybe make an exception for busses of local camp children? It just seems odd to me to allow busses loaded with non-members to enter the pool. Or, just get rid of the daily fee.

Don, does Panther Valley allow busloads of people?

Laurel Laurel
Jun '18

I think they solved the problem with taking the grills out and I just noticed there are 'no grilling' signs up which also prevents people from using portable ones. Today is a good day to swim and there is a very controllable crowd and no one on the grassy area. The two weekends before and after 4th of July will probably be the most telling of whether they solved the problem entirely or not.

Metsman Metsman
Jun '18

It would be good if they would enforce the maximum capacity. Members should arrive at 11:30, and be counted.
Rules need to be enforced. There is a huge sign that states that children who cannot swim are not allowed to go down the big yellow slide, yet some people disregard that.
They speak perfect English. It is not a language issue, it is a " I don't follow the rules" issue.

Older Mom Older Mom
Jun '18

It's a " I don't follow the rules" issue. Unfortunately this has permeated our society on all levels today. It's a crying shame.

kb2755 kb2755
Jun '18

So even when parents are tired, it would be good if they would obey the rules, -even the small ones, -so their children will do well moving forward.

Older Mom Older Mom
Jun '18

I think the pool is a great resource for the town and others

Crankyoldlady Crankyoldlady
Jun '18

There have NEVER been buses except for camps from Long Valley and groups from Randolph. Now, if the pool is good enough for Randolph...………………….

Also... most of the pool rules that I read today say N.J.A.C. after them. If the swimmers don't obey and then are spoken to by pool staff and ignore them, aren't they breaking a state statute (in essence)? Ticket or arrest them... or both= teeth...…...

scootora
Jun '18

Nazareth Pool is great for ALL Dayers. Great picnic setup and Lots of Slides!!

Older Mom Older Mom
Jun '18

I am enjoying the irony of older mom complaining about out of town and out of state people coming to our pool and then recommending going to an out of state pool. I wonder how the residents of Nazareth feel about all the NJ plates in their parking lot. :)

Jim L Jim L
Jun '18

LOL good observation Jim

Proud liberal Proud liberal
Jun '18

Nice catch Jim! She's not the only one. How about those who wrote that they went to Chester or Panther Valley?


HCP will be just fine! Great staff, beautiful, clean and very well run.

scootora
Jun '18

Was visiting an old neighbor there. Nazareth liked me just fine. I didn't pee in any trees or leave a trail of trash in my wake.

Older Mom Older Mom
Jun '18

Went today at 12 to try it out. Never would go on a Saturday last year especially on a very hot day. It was wonderful. Not tons of people, lots of swimming room and staff standing around the sides of the pool and in the stands. They even closed the bathroom for 15 minute cleaning. (Still afraid to go in there though so don't ask if it was clean or not.) Definitely happy with the pool today.

just a thought just a thought
Jun '18

Guess getting rid of the grills discouraged the urbanites who like to grill, from coming.

Metsman Metsman
Jun '18

Laurel why live on near there if you are so unhappy. Move. The pool is great.

Esmer Esmer
Jun '18

Hey Esmer...who ever said the pool wasn't great? I think you need to go back to school to learn how to read. You missed the entire point of this thread.

Yes, the pool is great.

The people urinating on our grass, dumping their litter on the sidewalk, selling pot in the parking lot and in the pool field, having drunken brawls behind the houses, climbing the trees and peeing on each other, blasting their stereos to the point that the windows are vibrating for 8 hours straight are the problem -- not the pool.

Are you really that stupid not to understand the difference?

So instead of cleaning things up and stopping the insanity, people should just move and allow this to continue - this is what you want for Hackettstown?

Shall I send them over to your house to pee on your grass and dump their garbage on your sidewalk, since you like that stuff so much? Or, maybe you were the person who climbed the tree last year and urinated on people as they walked under it. You seem to defend that behavior.

Laurel Laurel
Jul '18

Right now I am very grateful to the Hackettstown police. The pool has been closed to any additional swimmers because they are crowded. The police are on Warren Street and it looks like they have things under control. Great start! Thank you!

Laurel Laurel
Jul '18

Glad to hear, Laurel. I hope you enjoy a peaceful summer!


Dang- wish I saw the above post. Just saw...oh well:)
Then we got to see a wrong way driver coming down 46 as we were heading home...
FYI- Budd Lake Beach is packed. Probably overflow from the pool....

Blackcat Blackcat
Jul '18

Had a couple making out under my kitchen window yesterday. Time to fence off the opening so these people don't come onto the apartment property...

Metsman Metsman
Jul '18

Metsman, you should have hosed them down with the sink spray hose, lol.

ianimal ianimal
Jul '18

Yeah that would have been fun. LOL...

Metsman Metsman
Jul '18

I live in MO and I belong to Hackettstown Pool. Mostly it's wonderful, I bring my kids and we've never encountered nasty people (I don't usually go on weekends, mostly weekdays.) The camps come during the week and that can make it pretty crowded.
We have the same issues with our splash park and residents are complaining of out of towners ruining our park. I pay WAY more for rec sports than $5. I don't recall the soccer price it's been a while (i think it was like $150) but I paid $450 for LAX that did not include the stick. Hackettstown Pool IS a PUBLIC pool you can pay daily and don't even need a membership. So it really isn't a community pool.


So with the official end of summer having come to a close, did the removal of the grills solve the problems that were occurring last year? I don't recall any police blotters regarding patrons at the pool. Hopefully this worked and all who live near the pool had a better summer.

Walking Girl Walking Girl
Sep '18

Yes it did. There were never any big crowds on the grassy area this year like last year.

Metsman Metsman
Sep '18

Glad to hear Metsman!

Walking Girl Walking Girl
Sep '18

Now those same people are probably trashing state parks and leaving their garbage everywhere.

Metsman Metsman
Sep '18

"those same people" ????????

scootora
Sep '18

Yea the people who were peeing in the bushes and trees, bringing alcohol, bringing feasts of BBQ, dealing drugs in the parking lot, etc... that are now no longer around.

Metsman Metsman
Sep '18

oh, that's great. Thanks Metsman.

scootora
Sep '18

I just want to say how thrilled I was with the pool this summer. I was literally petrified, worrying about having the crazy, messy, loud, obnoxious crowds again. I am glad to report that the removal of the grills brought back the sanity on Warren Street. Even most weekends were a pleasure and were like the old days. I have to admit, I was skeptical at first thinking it would not be enough, but it actually worked! There were only 2 or 3 days that got insane all summer...I can live with that!

I appreciate the town and the police for taking this seriously and taking steps to remedy the situation, thank you.

Laurel Laurel
Sep '18

Glad to hear it worked. I didn’t see any reports and this thread was quiet so I was hoping that was the case. Our new Rec Director did a great job this year.

Jim L Jim L
Sep '18

Might actually consider going back to buying pool memberships next year, instead of taking my money out of town as I have done the last 2 years! Really glad to hear it!

pleasedaspunch pleasedaspunch
Sep '18

It appears there will be folks bused in to enjoy the town pool this year. Sounds as if it could get a bit crowded there this summer.

"While studies and repairs will keep the Newton Pool closed this summer. Recreation officials in Hackettstown will welcome residents of Newton, Andover and Green to enjoy their pool. Town officials in Newton have coordinated with the Newton School District to provide a bus and certified driver. Thor Labs has agreed to donate $12,000.00 to cover gas and transportation expenses so the bus ride to Hackettstown will be free. The bus will run Monday through Thursday in July and August. The only expense Newton Pool users will have is the admission cost to Hackettstown's Pool. This is a very nice example of how two towns, a school district and a local business worked together to benefit the community. I hope people who would normally enjoy the Newton Pool see this as good news and fill up that bus."


Thank god for the Chester pool.


Yeah but the riff raff that grill and pee off of trees won't be there. Last year was great without all those people.

Metsman Metsman
May '19

Starting when Hackettstown community pool will be open daily? There are no dates on Recreation Dept. or pool's website.


Pool won’t open daily until after Hackettstown has their graduation

Mommyof3 Mommyof3
Jun '19

https://hackettstown.recdesk.com/Community/Page?pageId=17443

Opens daily June 27th

Jim L Jim L
Jun '19

Very dissapointed

Tulip Tulip
Jun '19

Wow I'm surprised they didn't wait until labor day to open it to the public.


Hey, you only lost a few days given this weather. Second year in a row in 20 years I have opened on or after Memorial Day. I wish I had delayed more. And I am closing later as the seasons seem to be slipping.

And have a handful of days running AC in the day, heat late at night. Weird.

StrangerDanger StrangerDanger
Jun '19

Personally, pools are for Florida, CA, AZ and other warm weather states. Not worth the cost and effort for less than 3 months of pleasant weather in NJ. And that's when it doesn't rain all summer.


The pool cannot open daily until after school lets out anyhow, regardless of the weather.. When school is in session, the parking lots are not available to the pool patrons.

deviljet
Jun '19

Pools need lifeguards, who are often students. It's always been this way. School will be out soon enough.

hktownie hktownie
Jun '19

They do this every year so not sure why you would be disappointed. Opens on weekends starting Father's Day weekend and then opens daily the day after school ends.

Like others above have stated, need to wait until school is out to have the parking lot space and also lifeguards aren't available during the week unti school is out.

Jim L Jim L
Jun '19

Chester pool has been open since Memorial Day. I guess privacy has its privileges. No riff raff, clean and how a pool should be run. Once again always taking my money out of town.


"The Chester Area Pool (CAP) opens on Memorial Day weekend (for weekends only). The pool will be open daily once the Chester Schools are closed for summer vacation. The last day of the pool season is Labor Day."

Wow so a few extra weekends, big deal.

It also costs you $560 to go there vs $120. So yea those 3 extra weekends really are worth it.

Jim L Jim L
Jun '19

There's also a 1 time nonrefundable membership fee of $455 to join Chester, so you are comparing apples and oranges with Hackettstown.

Jim L Jim L
Jun '19

The pool wasn't overpacked last year as it was in previous years due to grilling being done away with. So not sure why people are complaining about the pool here.

Metsman Metsman
Jun '19

because Don complains about everything

Jim L Jim L
Jun '19

It wasn't only my complaint. It was years of complaints, and only until last year was something done about it. What was it really Jim L, loss of revenue to the town's pool over the years? I'm sure it took that to remove the grills. I'm sure lot's of town council folk gathered around and debated for months about the "cause and effect".


Not to mention if Hackettstown has such an award winning and progressive strategies when it comes to recreation, why didn't Chester and other towns solicit the green acres funding approach? Did Hackettstown win the lottery to get that done?


no you weren't the only one complaining, but you are always complaining..

And Town Council has no say in Rec facilities. The Rec board hired a new Rec Director, he spent his first year assessing the pool and made his recommendations to the rec board on changes he would like to see and they followed his recommendations.


He has done a great job since taking over the position and i'm confident he will continue to make imporvements where he sees they are needed.


And Chester decided to use tax payers money to build their pool and then still charge a high seasonal membership to their residents. So their residents pay double, once in the form of taxes and second in the form of high membership. The town is still $1.5mil in debt. Hackettstown decided not to use resident taxes to pay for the pool way back in 1978 and used green acres funding instead. The town is debt free and residents pay a low seasonal membership fee to enjoy the pool. So its a balance of affordable vs private. Hackettstown went affordable, Chester went private.

Jim L Jim L
Jun '19

Private seemed to win in the long run when Hackettstown residents sought Chester and Panther Valley. Ah, the decisions to save a few dimes while gouging in other ways. We must save a ton on not expanding our roadways too. I'm sure we save all sort of money by continuing to have cars pile up at the silly four corner intersection with lights that allow no traffic through. We save with all the empty store fronts too, and empty industrial parks. We save so much money I should see a reduction of my property taxes.

Meanwhile the local police force increases for what? And new cruisers on our dime. 3 square mile town, should have a shared service police force with Mansfield.

God I cannot wait for town and school consolidation. What NJ does not need are 585 municipalities all with people wasting money with blindfolded decisions.

I haven't even begun to complain. And if you disagree with any of this you are part of the problem not the solution


Chester also has a lot more well off people than Hackettstown does so they don't care if they have to spend a little more.

Metsman Metsman
Jun '19

That is true Metsman. NJ in would be a lot more affordable in general if we didn't have to pay for duplicative services.


Don -

Did you file to run for council this year? Your expert insight in these matters would surely be welcome. A keen, thoughtful statesman like you comes along only once in a generation at best.

Barnacle Bill
Jun '19

"We must save a ton on not expanding our roadways too. I'm sure we save all sort of money by continuing to have cars pile up at the silly four corner intersection with lights that allow no traffic through."

Its sad how little knowledge you have. All the traffic lights in town are on either state or county roads. Town does not control the timing of the lights. There is not a single traffic light on a town owned road. Which roads are you complaining we didn't expand? Mountain Ave? thats a state road.. Main St? that's a state road. Nothing the town can do on those roads.

Jim L Jim L
Jun '19

Will Hackettstown Community Pool re-open today? The restrictions are lifted starting today.


Pool is closed for the season. Announcement that is on the pool's website

HACKETTSTOWN POOL WILL REMAIN CLOSED FOR THE 2020 SEASON



After much thought, discussions and consideration, it has been decided that the Hackettstown Pool will remain closed for the 2020 season. This decision was not at all an easy one to make, however the following had to be considered.


First and foremost, the health and safety of everyone who utilizes the Hackettstown Pool, both Hackettstown residents and visitors from out of the area. As well as the employees and staff of the pool and Town.


The logistics of monitoring the restrictions of COVID -19; reduced capacity of attendance, social distancing, maintaining restrooms, locker rooms, etc. with the increased restrictive policies, would be cost prohibitive and extremely difficult to maintain the quality daily operations of the pool.



Again, our ultimate goal is the health and safety of all concerned. We wish everyone a healthy summer and look forward to the 2021 Hackettstown Pool Season.



Mayor Maria DiGiovanni


Hackettstown Pool should have been opened to those with memeberships only. That is what most town's are doing.


Google " green acres" space in NJ. Then you will understand.


I think you can limit entrance to members only and still not violate the Green Acres regulations.

As long as non-residents are given the opportunity to purchase memberships at no more than "x" percentage points higher than residents are paying ... that's perfectly fine.

ianimal ianimal
1 week ago

It's a good thought ianimal and TY however you can't just limit it to members and you can't just have seasonal membership with Green Acres. You have to offer daily rates too:

7:36­25.9 Fees for use of funded parkland and recreation and conservation facilities on funded parkland

(a) A local government unit or nonprofit may establish a fee schedule for the use of funded parkland or for the use of recreation and conservation facilities on funded parkland, provided that the fees conform with (b) and (c) below.
(b) The fees shall not be so excessive as to discourage
reasonable public access.
(c) The fees may be established in the following
categories:
1. Yearly, seasonal, monthly, weekly, daily, single use or hourly. However, if the local government unit or nonprofit establishes yearly, seasonal, monthly and/or
weekly fees, it shall also establish daily or single use fees;
2. Individual, group, team or family;
3. Local government unit resident or non­resident.
However, the fee charged to a non­resident who lives in the State shall not be greater than two times the fee charged to a local government unit resident;

https://www.nj.gov/dep/rules/rules/njac7_36.pdf


Jim, nowhere does that say that preference can't be given to seasonal members when capacity is limited.

ianimal ianimal
1 week ago

"However, if the local government unit or nonprofit establishes yearly, seasonal, monthly and/or weekly fees, it shall also establish daily or single use fees;

you have to have daily/ single use fees options. Plan and simple. Can't prevent someone from trying to go for the day. Now if you're at capacity you can prevent them from going in but as soon as someone leaves you have to allow the daily user to enter and can't have a "member" jump ahead of them. It's happened before when the pool hits its normal precovid capacity. ppl waiting in line go first come first serve even if there is a "member" waiting to go in behind them. and yes that "member" gets pissed.


Ianimal - exactly! For years it was OK to close pool to public because of sport activities and competitions.


Jim is 100% correct.

Jim KIng
1 week ago

Due to the need for social distancing and the dangers inherent in 100 people milling around waiting to be let into the pool when someone leaves... you establish an online reservation system.

Then all season pass holders can simply reserve a spot every day of the summer. Single day clientele can then try to find a day where demand is low and reserve their spot accordingly.

ianimal ianimal
1 week ago

What other local pools are doing is putting time limits on how long people can stay so someone can’t go and camp out there the whole day. PV pools are 2 hour blocks of time.


That would make way too much sense

Philliesman Philliesman
1 week ago

Why would the pool open, permit (by law) non-residents to come, run in the RED and then debit the Town account to subsidize non-residents?

That place can not pay its bills with limited patronage. It is big, lots of water and large highly trained professional staff.

No. It's not all about the Benjamins. The Rec. Commission, as a courtesy to its employees, made a decision so the staff could find other work. The State permitted pools to open 6 days before the scheduled opening date. Who strings people along that long?

With a crystal ball we'd all be experts.

Jim KIng
1 week ago

Out of curiosity, what is the history? The pool was built I think back in 1974? 75? with Green Acres Funds. So Hackettstown has to comply with Green Acres regulations. This we've been hearing for years.

Does the pool still get annual funding help from Green Acres? If not, any chance we could have a fund drive and pay Green Acres back so the town can have more control over the pool policies?

hktownie hktownie
6 days ago

"If not, any chance we could have a fund drive and pay Green Acres back so the town can have more control over the pool policies"

no chance, once you make a deal with the devil its for life. Once green acres, always green acres.


(h) Repayment of the loan in full does not terminate the Green Acres restrictions on the local government unit's funded and unfunded parkland.


Fill in the pool, create another sports field in its place and build a non-green acres pool at riverfront. Save the but your taxes talk...blah blah blah. The only thing having a "green acres" pool in town has done is provide people from out of town a place to swim and cause trouble. Jim, I know you are newer to town (under 20 years "ish").... back in the 80's and 90's, the "town pool" was actually enjoyable. Now it is a s...t show. Glad they removed the grills, but as late as last year, people were crammed in there like sardines. Is there a capacity limit? If so, it has not been followed in the past!

Sickofit
6 days ago

Yea there is a capacity limit. And yes it it followed. But it’s a big space and therefore it’s a big capacity limit. And I’m sure before the internet and outsiders knowing about it it was much quieter and more local. I wasn’t born when the pool was built so no clue why they went that way. I’m just giving facts as of today. Once green acres always green acres. And all Rec property is considered green acres including riverfront so if you build a pool there it will still be green acres. It is what it is and we just have to Figure out how to make the best of of it or continue to bitch about it for eternity. Perhaps time limits per person, member hours, stuff like that but saying fill in the pool And start over is not a realistic option.


Chester has a pool. $600/year membership. No outsiders. Rich town like hackettstown.

Jim KIng
5 days ago

Interesting Jim L; always thought if you had enough money, you could buy your way out of Green Acres. Perhaps you can buy your way out of farmland preserved, but not parkland preserved??

I guess Htown could always open another pool with restrictions IF the demand is there, which it won't be considering we couldn't even pressure Centenary to keep their pool open for the public. Demand just not there either.

strangerdanger strangerdanger
5 days ago

At the time the pool was just a thought, the town could not afford a pool on its own. Hackettstown did not have the population to be able sustain a pool. Look at the years of fun the kids, (and adults), have had. We need to stop being so negative and be glad we have this.


+1000 sport.

Jim KIng
5 days ago

Pool was built after the Sand Bar was closed.

Green Acres funding was the only way the town could afford it.


Jim L - The Grove, Sandbar, and Alumni field areas have belonged to the Town since at least the 1930's, and Alumni is actually owned by the BOE and leased to the town for I believe $1/yr in exchange for the BOE office building. Why would they be considered Green Acres?

Barnacle Bill
2 days ago

Re: 2018/19/20 Town Pool Thread

Because once you accept green acres funding all your recreational land falls into the state’s “ROSI” Recreation Open Space Inventory


There is a provision for "disposal or diversion of funded or unfunded parkland" from the ROSI. Difficult but not impossible.

Barnacle Bill
2 days ago

It's a shame that because someone doesn't want "outsides" from urban areas use the pool and local police is not able to control crowd and enforce pool rules and limit attendance, residents are not able to use community pool as well. There are people who have used pool for years and usually come after work to exercise. Why not to make 3.5-4 hour sessions with a short cleaning break between. Eliminate season membership, have only session passes (different rate for residents and non-residents) and allow to buy passes for a few sessions (it will eliminate the crowd at the entrance). Do something, don't just say "it's too hard to do anything so we decided to do nothing".


Sebers Grove was donated to the town 2001. Previous owner was Vincent Spina. He owned all the land from the Grove to Rustic Knolls.

auntiel auntiel
2 days ago

The Town Grove (across the River) was donated to the town in the early 1900's. Most people don't know it's even there.

Barnacle Bill
2 days ago

According to the town tax map, there is no Hackettstown property located across the Musconetcong River.


You are correct, the land across the river was donated. River park was donated 2001.

auntiel auntiel
2 days ago

Greg - It's Mt Olive Block 8500, Lot 27, otherwise known as 32 Parkway Drive. It's just a hair under 11 acres.


Ah.Thanks GC. I was thinking perhaps it was in Mt.Olive. Very nice of the family to donate that land.

I didn't realize some of Riverfront park was donated as well. I seem to remember some Green Acres monies used on that project. I think it was for the improvements to the land and not the purchase of the land itself. I just don't recall.


To correct...no property was donated for the purchase of and development of Riverfront Park. The 50 acres was purchased and developed with a combination of Green Acres, Town of Hackettstown, Hackettstown Municipal Utilities Authority and Warren County Concervancy Trust fund contributions.
The property was close to purchase by Hovnanian(Brook Hollow/Hunters Brook) but the Spina family did not want to wait on partial payments over a period of time. The Town closed on the property and handed the family a check for the full amount.
Great foresight and vision on the part of all contributors!


Reading all this is embarrassing that our town was basically a sellout trying to compete with Morris county towns. In a way this town still does. It’s a slow backwards place that constantly robs Peter to pay Paul. Anyone know any green acres funded places in Morris county?


I say close the dang pool permanently. Clean up the Sandbar. Sebers Grove and Saxton Falls and swim in the river like we did when we were kids. Them saying the river is polluted back then was just a political stunt to get the town pool and tax money.Enough said.

Bob Kunkel Bob Kunkel
1 day ago

Roxbury Township is on Green Acres rolls...


https://www.nj.gov/dep/greenacres/openspace.html
Steve you can search by county. Morris county is filled with green acres property.


Actually, Morris County has historically been the largest benefactor of Green Acres Funding in the state of NJ.
And Washington Twp. (Long Valley) has been the largest benefactor in that county.
Most of those purchases are land banked Green Acres- open space, walking trails, parks or land where the development rights have been purchased by the State and will remain “Green Acres”.


Eliminate season membership, have only session passes (different rate for residents and non-residents) and allow to buy passes for a few sessions (it will eliminate the crowd at the entrance). Do something, don't just say "it's too hard to do anything so we decided to do nothing".

Lena please explain how eliminating season passes will help? Most season passes are purchased by hackettstown and surrounding town residents. The pool is pretty quiet on weekdays. It's the daily out of towners that crowd the pool on weekends so how will your plan solve that issue?


It's an interesting point that M-town can afford more than H-town and therefore our pool had to be Green Acres which gave us less exclusivity. Of course, on the other hand, without Green Acres, H-town would have no pool.

Like I said, want to change it, build a new pool. You know you get all the locals who are paying at the current pool. Can estimate how many more and roll that business plan. Better yet, build an indoor pool. Even I would subscribe to that and I have a pool.....

strangerdanger strangerdanger
20 hours ago

Jim - the same way as movie tickets are sold.


But that is not preventing out of towners from coming to the pool. Which seems to be the biggest issue for the ppl on this thread. They would still be able to purchase daily passes. All that does is limit the amount of people entering which already happens since there is a capacity limit. The people That are complaining Want it to be just for residents which it will never be.


Down discount the additional spending the out of area visitors may make.
Sub Pub, 7-11, maybe gas and liquor store.
Could add up for area businesses.


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