DNA Story
Who has done the DNA genealogy thing? Honest to God, I can actually say I had to hang up my lederhosen; granny may have claimed Pennsylvania Dutch, but she sure as heck was not German.
Now we have a mystery!
strangerdanger 
Luca Not doubting the accuracy; just not sure what granny's story was; might be Vikings involved :>)
It's a Scam or...just be careful! - 1) Only accurate as much you believe in it...like getting info from a Psychic 2) If you haven't heard, the DNA genealogy thing is something like a hidden "Patriot Act" law the govt (FBI, etc) uses to capture (increase) its DNA pool for unreported/criminals not on their list to link to unsolved cases.
mgitti Interesting article supporting mgitti's point.
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/what-you-re-giving-away-those-home-dna-tests-n824776
Greg mgitti denies the science and uses urban legends to discredit DNA testing. DNA is accurate and used in every court in this country. The tracking through mitochondrial DNA has been around longer as they have using that in anthropological studies to track DNA found with archeological digs. I had mine done and it was 100% accurate. My oral history from relatives was as correct as I thought. You can pay to access the health markers and add as much info as you choose to give up as far as that goes. What does stealing my DNA profile get anyone? They can't leave it at a crime scene, they can't get a credit card on it. It has no financial info attached so I could be rich or poor but my DNA profile does not contain that. If the government wants to keep my profile in case I commit a crime they are welcome to it.
MK Greg - Both that article and mgitti's FakeNews are worth re-reading. On the one hand mgitti says DNA is clairvoyance and then says the FBI is secretly collecting it and going to identify criminals with it. Either it works or it doesn't.
The article doesn't support people outside of the companies selling the results without your permission. In fact they're actually very jealous with the results because they want to make money of additional optional services. If you're worried about someone else getting your information, don't shake hands, have a drink at McDonald's, pee, poop, smoke, or leave your house. Gathering DNA is easy.
When you do those tests there aren't just the generic consent forms, there is a whole section of things you either opt in or out. There are genetic studies, there are places that do further reporting, there are people searching for long lost relatives. I think the point of the article is vary valid, once you have the data it's a very valuable thing. Don't treat it lightly, keep it safe and don't give it out to just anyone. Including blanket use for medical studies or anything you're not sure of.
GC my brother and his wife have been doing family research including DNA - and all so far has proven very accurate based on information we already had from family...........
through Ancestry my brother has been able to find lots of verifiable information.........
4catmom Back to the original question - sounds to me StrangerDanger that you've seen the ancestry page called "Viking in the Room" for a particular reason. ;-)
My mother already has her results back, and I'm waiting for mine from both Ancestry and 23&me. I decided to have two different ones to compare and needed to do Ancestry like mom's so I know how hers and mine compare there.
I've done extensive research into our family since I was 14 so I know my way around our tree. There are two main things that come out of these services, the geographical make up and your matches to relatives. You can get health information as well, but that's optional. I did not order that but give my experiences if you want it.
On the relative matching all I can say is it's extremely accurate. My mom's matches were instant and the ones that are close (from siblings to 3rd cousins) I instantly recognized all the names. The 4th cousins listed have all turned out to be related just needed to go cross ways a bit further in research to get the relationships to match. Ancestry is particularly good at this because the more people they can compare, the more they get matches. And judging by the 1000+ matches my mom got, they're making HUGE $ with the amount of tests they've sold.
Geographical identification is clearly not the same. It's only as accurate as the baseline you are comparing too. If you have 10 people who are supposed to have ancestors going back 10 generations only from the country they live in, you may get good results. But all it takes is one of that control group to have an unexpected ancestor from somewhere else like great grandma was actually Russian and not German at all. Then when they tell you you're German, they're actually telling you you're 88% German with 12% Russian. And it goes down hill from there.
At Ancestry the number of times English people have come back as Scandanavian is so often they had to create a whole web page in response. The jury is till out on that. Either they've found something interesting of just how much interaction there has been between eastern coastal England and western Norway. *Or* they just blew it and have a bad control group.
So enter our family as an example of that. Ancestors are very PA German on mom's father's side, but a bit of very very English thrown in. On her mother's side it's Irish and English with possibly French/Alsatian as well. So we get the big news that Scandanavian comes back as the highest percent. The other bits we expected. Now if you swapped English for Scandinavian then all the pieces fall right into place of what we expected.
I will be very interested to see what 23&me comes back with as a test of a bad control group or just how close some English & Norwegians are.
As a side note, there are other resources out there for people that do this and want even more info. There are very scholarly sites that will compare your DNA to historical/ancient things like hunters vs gatherers, European Geo-Location, or Ancient Civilizations. I tried the Euro Locator and it does far better than Ancestry - highest hits are in Northern Germany, South East England, Holland, Galway, Scottish Hebrides, Switzerland, and Basque in that order. That's exactly what I would expect.
So all of that country makeup is not as set in stone as the relative matches are.
I saw a report, forget where, where they took sets of identical triplets and sent their DNA to three different companies. They all came back different. Shouldn't that be impossible?
Calico696 Keep in mind that these are Mormon companies that keep the world's largest database of geneolpgy
Daw The triplets came back identical on the overall genetic material. The minor discrepancies came when they went into how much of each genetic group they came from. One was 18% Scandinavian, another 22%, and the third around 20%, so not an earth shattering difference on a deep dive into your ancestors. If you need more detailed or correct info on a deep dive into your makeup there are more expensive options through your doctor.
Daw - The Mormon owned site is familysearch.org, which has the LDS data on it. Ancestry has some companies they bought that were owned by Mormons but not owned by the Mormon church like familysearch. Ancestry has access to that LDS data (IGI) which means its master index is actually bigger now that the IGI itself. It definitely was the biggest in the past though. Neither MyHeritage nor 23andMe is Mormon.
In somewhere around 6-8 weeks or so I should be able to tell you how closely my genealogy research (done over the last 40+ years) matches what my DNA results say. I took advantage of the 30% off special. Of course, like all of Ancestry's quest for billions, they try to sucker you into an expensive membership by offering a low price for the first 6 months with automatic renewal at their "regular" price from then on.
Phil D. Right now, some company having your DNA is probably not much of a big deal. But one might ponder what can/will be done with it, in the future, when that information gets hacked and is available to everyone. It's bad enough, now, that a person, company, or government can look up so much information about a person, simply by using Google.
JerseyWolf 23 and (maybe) Me appears to be a rip-off. They give a 50% chance the test is accurate - they have one job and 50% is really not good is it?
Ancestry appears to be better.
Inside Edition did a test with multiple identical triplets and quadruplets including Dr. Phil's daughter in law who is a triplet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyfWZZ7uPuE
ru Thanks everyone, some interesting stuff. Will be looking into that Scandinavian thing and thanks for the heads up that I am not alone. As far as having my DNA; I am so old it can't matter; really doubt I will be leaving my DNA at a crime scene for a match up; if they tell me I am incurable, others would say natural causes :>) But I agree, issue for the younger folk perhaps.
Yes, the Mormons are FamilySearch that's Mormon but just don't use the tree and you'll be OK.
I didn't know you can use Ancestry to find relationships via DNA; I did not sign up beyond freebies, can folks say more. Can I use my DNA, but the library's Ancestry account to do the same: doubtful but.... And tell us more about how you pursue this and what happens. Do 5th cousins end up emailing you?
Does Ancestry list "the rules' somewhere on what the definitions are? For example, what is a European Jew? Certainly that can't be the country of origin for Judaism or special European Jewish DNA ---- so what's the definition?
In my case, Pennsylvania Dutch Granny Hinkle is not German. Our Irish side always seemed so proud of "stealing" a PADutch woman like we forced some sort of religious conversion. As in, yeah, this was a verified urban myth. According to the DNA, I am in GC's Scandinavian neighborhood. Now what..... I am back to 1800 but still in America on this so going farther back gets more difficult, much less finding country of origin. I am sure this DNA report is accurate, according to their "rules" and definitions, so my real question is: "what's up with that Granny --- why did you lie about the German or what??? Too bad we didn't talk heritage in my family and there's no one left to ask....Maybe I need those cousins? Just can't figure out why the family urban myth is off on this one. Might be adoption, might be some weird advantage to being thought of as German, might be a disadvantage to be Scandinavian. Got any other ideas?
Thanks everyone, this is great stuff and very fun. It's like a jigsaw puzzle. Right now I am putting together Dad's WWII experience; found his journey, can see the big battle that bit him, and ---- not sure this is good or bad, but can see where he is injured and out just before his group starting freeing the POW camps and other camps in Germany. I am sure the POW moments were glorious, not so sure he's not better off missing the other. I do know it was killing him not to be there for his buddies. But that's for the genealogy thread which I hope more of you will starting sharing your experiences and source websites on.
If we keep it up, we'll need to have a meeting/meal to share. heh, heh.
I believe it's very accurate, I've done both ancestry, and Helix National Geographic
Geno 2.0, and both results were pretty much the same. My daughter did 23 and me, and got results as expected. My only surprise was that this dual Irish citizen who runs an Irish business is actually 21% British? Explains the arguments I have with myself.
One of the cool things with the Geno 2.0 is it shows connection with famous people in history who you share common ancestors with. Also how much neanderthal DNA you have, I come in at 1.5%. Lots other cool things too. https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/
Ancestry helped me get in touch with relatives I didn't know I had, and found out much more about the family history through them, including very old pictures.
Denis The Golden Gate killer was just caught because his relative used one of these DNA sites. Police submitted the criminals DNA. Got a close relative match. Checked the family tree. Followed the most likely suspect. Boom!
maja2 Probably one of the most significant stories of late, Maja. I've never been so conflicted reading about one arrest. Relief for those that live in that area and happiness that the families of his victims may finally see justice done, and.... bone-chilling thoughts about where we are headed with DNA use.
Anyone have misgivings, or greater misgivings, about sending in DNA for testing now?
Anyone also watch Black Mirror?
Rebecka 
eapos 
Rebecka.
I love it, at get-togethers, when the subject comes up, and people ask me "where did you come from" or "what's you're heritage", and I say "America. It's American"... "but no, I mean, where did you COME FROM?" LOL I think they get annoyed (tough crap) when I continue giving the correct answer, which is "America."
I'm American. I was born here. My father was born here. His father was born here. HIS father was born here. Beyond that, it doesn't matter to me. While ancestry is interesting, my culture is AMERICAN. I don't need to know where my ancestors came from, *I* came from America.
And where there's smoke, there's fire: anyone who thinks this whole thing isn't a "soft opening" on DNA cataloging is fooling themselves. Of course they'll eventually get all of it anyway, I'm surprised the govt doesn't require DNA cataloging at birth yet (wait for it- it WILL come). But we have to normalize it first.
Here, govt: please- take my fingerprints, take my DNA, require a license or tax for exercising my rights (except for voting rights- you should let everyone on earth vote in our elections), , please take care of us! LOL
JeffersonRepub I have no interest in my DNA. I know all I want to know about my family history. I have no known relatives living in other countries. Me and my father and mother, and brother were born here. All of our male's served. Enough said.
Old Gent @JR - "DNA cataloging at birth..." - yes, I agree it's coming, and bet we will see that requirement in our lifetimes. Makes one want to move to Timbuktu. Like, now. And I don't even have anything to hide! But the extent of the surveillance and available electronic tracking and data mining is incredible already. Combine those elements with your DNA fingerprint and you've got a big enough Brother to make Orwell roll over in his grave.
Rebecka - Did you shake hands recently? Have you eaten at a restaurant, have you used the grocery store cart, has allergies gotten to you recently? If so, like the killer you've left your DNA all over the place. It's already there with out you sending it anywhere. Testing is up to you but for purposes like prosecuting crimes it's not necessary. It's not the testing but who you decide to share it with that opens up so many different doors. Some of them are good, and what people are hoping for. Others are quite the opposite.
No, it's not a conspiracy issue, it's easy to just turn a button on and none of that happens. But when you decide to allow literally anyone in, that can be more intrusive than people planned. The same thing has been going on for years with genealogy that is not DNA based. People's files of living relatives have been used any number of times for identity theft.
To me the real problem isn't the companies, or the testing, it's people uneducated about the choices they are making.
Lol eapos!
The government has my prints for global entry. I have to behave anyway. If I did do the DNA ancestry thing, I'd use a money order & a fake name :)
It's sketchy to me, unless there is a warrant. But it is a plus for victims.
On a different note, my DNA story has gone off in a different direction recently. After taking my results off to a company specializing in health information (far cheaper than the generic services) I found I have a very specific Y chromosome marker related to Scots Irish migration of the O'Neil clan. There is a group of genetic scientists studying that pattern and have very specific DNA mutations that track who went where when. Because of the marker I've become part of a larger overall study of about 3000 people and now need to do some more in depth and specific testing only on the Y chromosome. This is producing some really interesting research because it is so specific to just the male lineage.
For more information about the specific history involved, this is an overview:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niall_of_the_Nine_Hostages
Oh and btw - EMR (electronic medical records)... also laying the "it's acceptable" groundwork for DNA cataloging. Relatedly, I was floored when DH casually mentioned that he (and all NJ docs, and many in other States, too) could use any internet-connected device see what controlled prescriptions someone is or has in the past used, in like... 3 clicks. You don't need someone's SS#. Just their name and birthday*. And the same data... yup, shared with Federal agencies. We kissed our medical privacy rights away years ago. Not many people seem to know or be that concerned, though.
*Note - medical professionals can only legally do this when you are asking to be a patient or are a patient of theirs. But anyone working in their offices could violate this-- not to mention the potential for the system to be hacked!
When your DNA is used to prevent you from getting health/life insurance or a job people will take notice more. Your predisposition to disease directly effects the financial health of your employer/insurance companies.
It's just capitalism. People with diseases should pay more because they cost more to insure and take more days off from work.
Dodgebaal @GC - fascinating. And DNA testing for medical reasons is the one reason I'm interested.
@maja - I have an ancestry kit that's been sitting around, and have thought of doing the same thing with the fake name lol!
Add all of the above to facial recognition software-(your face is documented everywhere) and just by looking into a camera everything about you will be visible.
Got Herpes? Diabetes? Hmm, you're just not qualified for the job.
Don't forget the fact that 14 year old Asian kids are better than 55 year old Americans at software security.
Welcome to the world you left for your children.
Free DNA test.
"Drivers in a southeastern Pennsylvania town were forced off a local street and into a parking lot, so a federal contractor – aided by local police --could quiz them about their road habits and ask for a cheek swab, in a replay of an incident last month in Texas.
The checkpoint, in downtown Reading, was one of several conducted by the Pacific Institute for Research and Evaluation, which was hired by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy. Although the questioning and cheek swab were voluntary, local residents said they were directed by police to pull over, and that the questioning was persistent."
The checkpoint, in downtown Reading, was one of several conducted by the Pacific Institute for Research and Evaluation, which was hired by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy. Although the questioning and cheek swab were voluntary, local residents said they were directed by police to pull over, and that the questioning was persistent."
Am I being detained?
Am I being detained?
Am I being detained?
GET A WARRANT.
The ignorance of the populace will be their downfall, and it'll be too late to do anything about it after the fact. Future generations won't know HOW to do anything about it.
Death panels too.... one look at the UK in the last couple of days shows that...
Logan's Run, anyone?
maja2 - One of the things that isn't going to make people with privacy concerns feel any better is how they didn't need any warrants for what they did. They didn't trace anybody that didn't say yes to having their DNA results available. And they didn't need the guy himself to take the test. They didn't even need to have relatives all that close to him to end up catching him.
All you needs is a few starting points to see where there is overlap of shared DNA. Then you go backwards and find others who also have bits of that overlap. That's one of the features of these testing sites - you don't just see your relatives, you can pick one of them and see a list of who you and they have in common. If I take a person who I already know is related on my mother's mother side I can see all the other people that are specific to the maternal grand mother. That's what they folks did with the DNA. They got links to both mothers and fathers side and then check people who had given their family tree as well as the DNA. That let them to the specific family, and knowing the suspect is male to just a couple of brothers as suspects. With the number of people that have now done these tests and a price still dropping to do it, this is no longer all that difficult to do.
Its not just based on getting lucky that someone's first cousin did a test. Just two people with 3rd cousins will get matched really quickly. These tests tend to be good up to about 6th-7th cousin range. It might take longer to triangulate but getting to the identity of a random person based on DNA is still going to happen. There are so many results already there and shared with everyone that you don't have to get tested and they will still track you down. This recent case shows the time when DNA matching works has already come and gone.
Dodgeball, your medical records are protected by HIPPA. That info is not allowed to be shared with anyone unless they have your permission to do so. It is a HUGE violation to share medical info, that is why you have to sign a release before doctors can share your records with other doctors, etc...
Jesse341 Rebecka - If all you want is the health part it's really quite easy to get what you want without exposing anything to anyone else. You should get the test done, but set all of your privacy options to "not share" at all. You can get the raw results when they are in, download it, and then delete the kit from Ancestry. The downloaded data can then go on a different site (I use Promethease) where you upload and get a very long report about any markers that indicate health issues. Those sites are not about family history or geographic origins, etc. so they never share with anyone. Besides, you download the health report and then delete it from their site. The health reports are more about what are you going to do if you found something in it? If there's a real concern you need a genetic counselor immediately. Some people that really worry about that kind of thing needs someone to discuss what the probabilities are and how much of a concern it really is. But I guess when it comes to counseling you've got resources you're already aware of. ;-)
As for sending under an assumed name, part of the whole point of the recent case is it wouldn't do you any good anyway. Given enough time and just a little bit of know how, the amount of data out there today is enough to figure out your identity based on your other relatives that were tested.
That reminds me, the Bone Marrow donor peeps have my cheek swab. It was an acceptable risk for me.
Dodgebaal - That's part of the problem with DNA. Other than specific genetic defects, it most often does not indicate a disease. More often it indicates likelihood of the kinds of diseases that you are susceptible to. Denying coverage, or raising rates just because someone has a 20% increased risk of a disease is a far cry from actually being sick.
Jesse,
Do you really think someone from a foreign country who hacks in and takes information cares about HIPPA?
There are quite a few medical facilities that have had their whole computer systems seized, with ransoms needed to be paid, in order to restore information.
Sometimes data is encrypted, sometimes it's not, sometimes it does not matter.
Hackers accessed Equifax- that's a big deal.
Plus thousands of corporations.
All it takes is one muppet with a high security clearance. Plenty of those out there.
Just look at the "Commissioner" with her fancy degree from Georgetown Law.
Plenty of letters after her last name, zero common sense, massive arrogance.
As George Carlin once said, " A feeling, an illusion of safety, in order to placate the middle class."
This is very interesting, pretty sure I have an unknown half sister or two out there. It might be nice to find new family. But after reading this thread, not quite ready for the swab!
hktownie GC,
Yes you are right. Remember, however, a predisposition for a disease can add up to a probability.
Insurance companies calculate your car insurance on your credit rating.
You think the rate you would get for disability / health / life insurance would not be different based on genetic risk? If not now, it probably will go there in the future.
The science is only getting better. Now there is CRISPR, where the smallest segments of DNA can be clipped out/modified. In the future, evil entities can use this to design a method to kill/injure someone based on race, ethnicity, sex, and if it gets advanced enough, to target a single individual.
Could be a new Black Mirror episode.
JeffersonRepub
You do realize in Pennsylvania, police do not require a warrant to search your car.
https://lancasteronline.com/news/local/supreme-court-pennsylvania-cops-no-longer-need-a-warrant-to/article_6a407fc6-d077-11e3-8025-0017a43b2370.html
There's a state in the union that has something WORSE than NJ does? I'm shocked.
I'm also shocked it's not CA.
JR,
Don't worry. I'm sure there's a bill pending somewhere in NJ that will restrict your rights for something you even haven't thought of yet.
The Genetic Information Nondiscrimination Act law that specifically prohibits companies from discrimination based on your genetics. Insurance companies can not increase your rates, deny coverage, etc. based on your DNA and businesses can not use your DNA as a reason not to hire you.
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