Bitcoin

just wondering if anyone local is making any money buying this monopoly money on the stock market.

gambler
Dec '17

I'm waiting with interest to see the first real correction. There is literally nothing to backstop the price. Also will be interesting when the miners quit because of lack of returns and the transaction ledger slows, driving up the transaction fees. For a while there you needed to pay ~$15 just to have your transaction included in the chain. How sustainable is that?

brendan brendan
Dec '17

"Mining" is used as a term to try to make it sound like something is actually being done. The behind the scenes "algorithm" its based on is never disclosed and may not even exist. It's artificial dilution with no intrinsic value meaning it's essentially the currencies owners removing equity at their choice.

A large correction already happened - over 30% drop in a single day. But don't underestimate the pool of nefarious cash ready to flow in to prop it back up.

Sustainable? The sustainability is based on money laundering by crooks who already know they're going to lose a big percent. It sure beats "the plumbing supply business". It was never based on anything sustainable from the beginning.

There are far easier ways for it to crash than just high transaction fees. The lack of oversight means you could wake up one day and all of bitcoin could be out of real cash to distribute ala Madoff. Or some government wins the right to see the computer records and the crooks are off the exchange.


"A large correction already happened - over 30% drop in a single day." Actually there have been a half dozen crashes as, given the structure and ability to be manipulated without controls, create risk that's in the speculative range.

So if you are into spec, go for it.

strangerdanger strangerdanger
Dec '17

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-08/the-bitcoin-whales-1-000-people-who-own-40-percent-of-the-market

I’ll just leave this here - too small a group that can move the market for my liking

Skippy Skippy
Dec '17

So if this is such a racket/scam why haven't the Feds shut it down?

Why did the Chicago Mercantile Exchange begin trading futures of Bitcoin on their exchange starting December 15th?

http://www.cmegroup.com/trading/bitcoin-futures.html

It says to me - the powers that be want it around and for a long-time. They want to push everyone into a cashless society and this will get people used to it.
imo

So my little pet peeve is Bitcoin is not the only coin - there are over 1600 coins - most are crap and won't be around but if you treat as any other investment class you can make money on them.

Personally - think Bitcoin is rigged now that Wall St got involved with it on 12/15 but like I said many other good coins out there.

Good luck


When the early adopters cash out expect to see a huge correction

Skippy Skippy
Dec '17

"I invented Bitcoin"

Al Gore

4real
Dec '17

Disagree - maybe 1% of the world's population actually own them now- what happens when 10% population get in.

Blockchain technology is here and is the future of the planet so better learn about it and get involved or get run over by it. Bitcoin is just 1 coin/part of that technology.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockchain


ru --- depends on the next crash....

old Wall Street adage: when the cabbies start day-trading, it's time to get out of the market.......

Sounds to me like the cabbies are mining bitcoin to me.......

Or my adage: if you read about how to make money all over the internet, it's time to get out.....

strangerdanger strangerdanger
Dec '17

@ru - 1100% correct about "Blockchain technology is here and is the future of the planet" ---even Vanguard, UPS, and so many more have ahead started use Blockchain technology

http://www.businessinsider.com/blockchain-technology-applications-use-cases-2017-9
https://www.cbinsights.com/research/industries-disrupted-blockchain/

@strangerdanger - If you learned anything from post 2008, ALL those OLD Stock Market ADAGES have become more USELESS/just a pastime against investing in this global, technological Market of nowadays.

*BTW, your Cabbies is a perfect example...hailing a cab is now so yesterday (Uber/Lyft)

BitBlockFuture BitBlockFuture
Dec '17

Litecoin is my bet.

CraftBeerBob CraftBeerBob
Dec '17

CraftBeerBob

+1


The technology is open source so although Bitcoin was the first hundreds of copies exist with variations or in tech-speak "forks." Read the white paper, great reading but I don't advocate investing at this point as it is beyond hobby-days when full Bitcoins could be "mined" with a laptop. Like GC eluded, the mining is just a waste of electricity it is not really solving something but was an incentive in the beginning to get peer consensus (form of validation against double purchases):

https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

Just like Fiat currency it has the issue of no intrinsic value.

I do believe blockchain technology will permeate banking but since it is open source cryptocurrencies in existence today won't mean much.

The unspent Bitcoins and the like owned by "Satoshi" worth about 20 billion:

https://news.bitcoin.com/people-keep-sending-satoshi-nakamoto-bitcoin/


Ripple....

sister jane
Dec '17

So Ijay - good definition and people....

Are you happy with yourself?

I dont know with your data would you like the town to lose 30,000 percet of ROI?

Just saying your an idiot...and have no idea what your talking about.

If the town invested in only 10 bitcoins - the town would be rich!

Peace out


ru, you are the idiot. This may be one of the best SHORTING opportunities in decades.


"In Atari's last press release they said they signed a long-term licence partnership with a company active in the blockchain space to develop a cryptocurrency called "Atari Token". In exchange they're getting 15% of the capital of that unknown company for free + royalties."


The town is supposed to "invest" in Bitcoins? It would have a fortune if it invested when, 8 years ago? If it invested last month it could well be out 20% or more of it's investment. Fiscal responsibility and stars in the eyes of the young are not compatible.

Separate Bitcoin the company from the technology. The software behind it definite can be used, with oversight, by the scrupulous to good effect. That has real promise and overall worldwide finance can be improved.

But the company has so many red flags. The oversight is not there, and its not assured what exact "algorithm" is really there. It's a black box and can you trust the company to show you the real data, or data they've manipulated. That "mining" program may well be stealing your money. The article of supposed "tips" appearing is a huge sign of something wrong. Is it hidden transaction fees, the nefarious moving around vast amounts of pocket change to launder their money, or inherent random removal right off to the owner's accounts? You can't tell if it's any of all of those things.

Software is easy, people are not. Don't trust people who have nothing and all of a sudden call it something you can't live without. Anymore than not publishing algorithms or allowing independent oversight.


Just an FYI. Bitcoin is up 30% in the last 30 days.

CraftBeerBob CraftBeerBob
Dec '17

You Korean ru, LOL:

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/south-korea-students-dive-virtual-060504041.html


Is it? https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoin/

I am not jumping to the "it's got no where to go but up."

Also, some of this is being floated by terrorists and other savvy criminals

https://www.coindesk.com/ice-director-cryptocurrencies-are-increasingly-being-used-in-money-laundering/

https://cointelegraph.com/news/bitcoin-low-risk-for-money-laundering-high-for-cybercrime-uk-treasury

Think about it. One of the differences in ISIS was that unlike Al Qaeda before them, they did not rely on banks and other financial institutions. They learned that one after we crushed the AQ finances. Now ISIS uses a lot more hard cash which meant we had to find the "banks." Bitcoin has the advantage of anonymity and the ability for world transfer. https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/isis-using-bit-coin-hide/2015/11/25/id/703620/

The only thing this tells me is that regulation will be coming, at least to the point of stopping criminals from having a free financial global highway that we can not deter.

strangerdanger strangerdanger
Dec '17

Not sure how I feel about it - I’m not down with asset forfeiture or government control of finances but can’t support something that finances terror. - one thing about bitcoin is the block chain is public - so while you don’t know who owns the wallets anyone can track coin movement

Skippy Skippy
Dec '17

Blockchain is not going anywhere.

CraftBeerBob CraftBeerBob
Dec '17

Ripple XRP.X is up today 46.49% I have no position in any but I
find it intriguing. #HODL

gambler
Dec '17

Anonymous? No. The hashing algorithm used by Bitcoin was developed by the NSA.


The last time I had Ripple was in high school.

kb2755 kb2755
Dec '17

As the cabbies used to say "buy low sell high" works everytime!

Scottso Scottso
Dec '17

There’s those cabbies splaining equities again.

Strangerdanger Strangerdanger
Dec '17

Sorry IJay my bad your not an idiot got a little overzealous.
Sorry - buddy.

As far as terrorism - that is Fed jawboning - fake news. The biggest drug/terrorism money launderers are the Big banks and that will all come out shortly.

Good day

HSBC to pay $1.9 billion U.S. fine in money-laundering case

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jawboning

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-hsbc-probe/hsbc-to-pay-1-9-billion-u-s-fine-in-money-laundering-case-idUSBRE8BA05M20121211


Litecoin - LTC is your second chance at Bitcoin...it may exceed Bitcoin.
imo

Go on Coinbase and buy LTC - it will be Dynastic wealth....your grand kids will be talking about how smart you were.

Peace out

or Ethereum for long term investing - you will be dollar rich at the end of 2018.


And right now is a great buying day for LiteCoin. Remember these things trade 24/7.

CraftBeerBob CraftBeerBob
Dec '17

ru, I am not for any system creating a future elite class of dummies; the equivalent of trust-fund kids. Nothing worse than these wastes of space. Trump is a little like this and his Grandchildren might be going this route.

The whole idea when it started was to offer an alternative to tightly regulated "money." It was a natural successor to the internet which offered the validation network at little cost. It was a hobby with a good white paper(s) and where it goes it goes...


Lots of year end profit taking going on today. So much so coinbase has a backlog of sales.

CraftBeerBob CraftBeerBob
Dec '17

what can you buy with a bitcoin? can I purchase a car? or a house?

scottso scottso
Dec '17

You can probably convert it to any currency in the world quickly and then buy whatever

Skippy Skippy
Dec '17

I just don't like how it doesn't really exist, it's a imaginary currency......it could be gone like K-Mart!

Darrin Darrin
Dec '17

no clue what this is all about - someone tried to explain it - and I'm not that dumb - but.............

4catmom 4catmom
Dec '17

http://cryptocurrencyfacts.com/how-does-cryptocurrency-work-2/

Skippy Skippy
Dec '17

This is who it works...

You pull out your credit/debit card and buy something- that transaction goes to a bank that processes your transaction - BOA/Wells Fargo etc - they charge the merchant a transaction fee - they may charge you a transaction fee - it goes onto their servers and they clear the transaction.

Block Chain/Bitcoin - you buy something - you pay that person directly with no bank fees. You ask the person their block chain receiving code and send them Bitcoin directly - no bank fee- its a completed transaction.

Can you see why the banks are screaming bloody murder - its a pier to pier transaction with no fees. Each transaction is logged on the Block Chain.

So with the Block Chain/Bitcoin what the miners do is verify all the transactions - thats all the miners do - instead of it being on Visa or Mastercard Servers its on every computer that participates in Block Chain and they throw a bone to the miner that verifies all the transaction for that day or week - confirms the block.

That's it - not hard to figure out.
imo

The reason I didn't get into it at first is where is the corruption?
You can't have a politician getting a brown paper bag full of cash - if it's on the block chain - that goes away.

It will kill the US Dollar and Banks in short order and every other fiat currency in 2018 - 19.
imo


Nope RU. Not unless we get Fed bitcoin

You listed a bunch of great reasons for bitcoin. Each has either a cost ir regulation involved.

Did you ask yourself: what do I get for those credit card charges? Or...why is that regulation in place?

Then ask yourself; if sovereign nations exist on sovereign money; what happens to sovereignty if that goes away?

Often the internet is advantaged by just avoiding safeguards.

Strangerdanger Strangerdanger
Dec '17

Long eth or ltc

BusinessGuy1984
Jan '18

ru must be drinking some Bitcoin Kool-Aid. I don't know how a wildly fluctuating imaginary currency responsible for less than 1% of the monetary transactions in the whole world will become a standard replacing fiat currency. I have mined bitcoin and am part of a consortium mining them. We own a few after years of mining. Selling them is not easy and getting anyone to trade something worthwhile for their outrageous present value is hard if not impossible. I do not see a path to replace fiat currency with the present model of blockchain currency.


Eth broke record prices today, breaking 900 level, very exciting!

BusinessGuy1984
Jan '18

I’d say get out now but you really can’t, can you?

Very exciting yes. Can’t wait for what’s next.

Strangerdanger Strangerdanger
Jan '18

my regular cashier at quick check told me today that he was buying more, says he bought at 11k and he thinks it up to 14k

when I told him you can't buy anything with bitcoins he informed me that bitcoin is an "asset class" and not a currency so that's not a problem.

scottso scottso
Jan '18

First, you can buy a lot of things with Bitcoin. Precious metals, anything on Overstock.com, cupcakes, goods and services from smaller local retailers, direct transactions (i.e., pay your hairdresser directly), gift cards (iPayYou.com), even Amazon is working on either accepting existing cryptocurrencies or creating their own (perhaps on the Ethereum network?), etc. I just bought a Ledger Nano S (a hardware cryptocurrency wallet) a few days ago using BTC.

Second, it's very easy to sell BTC. I just sold 0.06 BTC recently (11/20/17) for a quick ~$500 in my pocket. I had bought it at under $1k/1BTC last January, so not a bad ROI. I trade on gemini.com (the Winklevoss brothers' exchange).

As for BTC being 'funny money' - the vast majority of what we all use is also 'funny money' - numbers typed into a computer as either credit or debt. For example, the M0 money supply is currency in circulation--i.e., dollars printed and coins minted--and as of Nov that was about $1,514.6B USD. But, because fractional reserve banking is (somehow) legal, most of the money in your checking account is not 'cash in the vault' but 'fiduciary media' (a debt the bank owes you because it borrows your money to loan it out at interest) and if you include those amounts (a.k.a. the M1 money supply) then as of Nov there are $3,600.4B USD (more than twice as much as currency). If we add savings accounts and smaller time deposits (under $100k) then as of Nov the M2 supply jumps up to $13,804.8B USD (almost ten times the printed-or-minted-currency). M3 includes "larger" time-deposits but the FRB stopped publishing M3 data a decade ago (wonder why?). The FED only requires your local bank to keep 10% (or even less) of your checkable deposit on hand for the ATM. The rest is lent out to others at interest, and the bank gets to keep that interest profit. That means that if we all went to the local bank to get our money out, they'd run out of cash long before they met all of their liabilities. Insolvency is their business model. All that to say...most of our 'money supply'...is funny money. 90% or more of the number you see on the screen when you check your account balances is actually loaned out to your bank. The US monetary system has changed four times since 1913 (thanks to Presidents Wilson, FDR, and Nixon), and it will likely change again in our lifetime because fiat currencies, mixed with a centrally controlled fractional reserve banking system, cannot last. This is the stated reason why Bitcoin (and the blockchain) were created: to secede from central banks and the corrupt global financial system.

Cryptocurrencies are officially designated a 'digital asset' for IRS reporting purposes, but the government does not decide what is actual money or actual currency--only what must be accepted as legal tender, and what must be used to pay federal taxes. (Our Constitution had actually mandated that States use *only* gold and silver, but that has been ignored since 1913.) Anything can be currency if the two parties involved agree to it. Cigarettes are currency in prison. In some places, shells or even salt were currency. Some towns have BID coupons that are valid currency locally. If people will accept it in trade for goods and services, it's currency--a medium of exchange. Whether it's actually money, is another question.

For those who think crypto is the currency of criminals...can anyone guess what currency terrorists and gangsters around the world use more than any other by far?

Yes, cryptocurrencies are volatile and could hit $0--like many stocks did in the Great Depression, like the unbacked German mark in the Weimar Republic, like government printed greenbacks did during the civil war, and like all fiat currencies eventually do. When your savings account interest rate is a fraction of the true inflation rate, we're losing buying power by keeping it in the bank and we ought to do *something.* Keeping all of your buying power in the US Dollar is definitely a losing play long term. Just wait until all those countries back out of Bretton Woods and all those US Dollars come flooding back home...or until oil can be purchased using Euros or gold-backed Chinese Yuan instead of US Dollars.

sacred | secular sacred | secular
Jan '18

Scottso, so the guy is putting all of his savings into Bitcoin? And when it drops he will have little and then become a ward of the state in the future...


Agreed, don’t treat it so much as a currency but look at it as a security

BusinessGuy1984
Jan '18

Lots of kids playing with Tron in the last few days


Tron trx.x is up 175.64% today

gambler
Jan '18

Secular: nice treatise, took a bit, heh, heh, to convert the B's to T's.... You didn't mention excess bank reserves and how they come in play.

Also, you note the "fractional reserve banking is (somehow) legal..." That's sort of a misnomer in that without the fractional reserve requirement, there would be potentially no reserve; the banks would theoretically invest it all in loans increasing the monetary expansion one more time. It's not that reserves are legal, it's that they are a regulated requirement to preserve our monetary system in the event of a downturn.

And therein is an example of the difference in our currency and bitcoin. Our currency is managed, bitcoin is not. We put a 10% fractional reserve in having determined that's the magic number to support cash-needed on hand by the banks. Goal is to stop the runs. Then we back that up with Fed loans for emergencies. Meanwhile, the Fed adjusts the bank interest rate to hopefully manage the money supply in that too much money = inflation and too little money = recession. Bitcoin has no such management whatsoever and is in constant free float. That can lead to instability.

And here's a rub.... At the time of The Great Recession, we activated the law to pay interest on excess bank reserves. Previous to TGR, there were zero excess bank reserves. Everything the bank had turned into a loan so the bank could maximize profit. Therefore every dollar created hit the fractional reserve limit, and through the money multiplier expanded about ten times. Therefore the stimulus of $1.7T new money should have expanded to over $15T. It didn't. Why?

Because banks put the $1.7T in Excess Reserves that taxpayers now pay over $12B each year in taxes at 1.5%. One might say 1.5% sucks but realize that previously banks had to hire all those folks in all those branches to manage all those loans. Now they just have one guy who works part time counting interest and making summary charts. Loans might default, the Fed has a better record. The other thing is we regulated loans to be much more difficult to obtain. This is one reason the recovery was slow, however, we did not overheat.

This all was new at the time of TGR (although the law had been there since the 90's) and you can see if somehow some of these excess reserves hit the streets as loans, the economy would take off as the money supply truly expanded. This is also a major reason interest rates stay low, the amount of money in supply is being restricted basically.

If anyone can explain why the Excess Reserves are so high and what the future holds there I would love to hear it. I am confused for sure. Otherwise, keep an eye on any movements here as the monetary effects would be far reaching. Good thing it appears someone he thinks he is in charge doesn't seem to understand any of this because this honeypot makes all his other economic moves look paltry.

Now when you add our managed float for dealing with foreign exchange rates and you can see the difference across the globe. Money is managed, bitcoin is not and therefore subject to wild fluctuations with zero support or backing in a crash. And for expansion, it's only time till folks figure out how to borrow and loan bitcoin -----> without a fractional reserve requirement for safety.

strangerdanger strangerdanger
Jan '18

strangerdanger -- I would argue that we shouldn't need a government-mandated reserve requirement because fractional reserve banking shouldn't be legal. For centuries there was a strict legal separation between a demand deposit (basically a bailment bond), and a time deposit. The demand deposit (or bailment bond) was a storage service for which the custodian received a fee, and the owner received a receipt (or "note") for his property held. If the custodian attempted to profit from / expropriate the owner's property he would have been guilty of fraud (and at one point, in Catalonia, publicly beheaded). The time deposit contract (or loan contract) was made with a broker who had the right to use the loaned property to make wise investments earning a slightly higher rate, and returned the principal plus a slightly lower interest rate to the lender, to mature at a given date. This 'wall of separation' between demand deposits and time deposits was broken down when big bank lobbyists influenced the courts in England, from which we inherited those faulty laws. If banks were truly allowed to compete, then dishonest banks who made bad loans would suffer from market forces. The market would keep them honest and there would *never be a bank run again* because all demand deposits would actually be in the vault where they belonged. Of course, then we'd have to pay a fee to keep our money somewhere--but shouldn't it be that way, that we pay for a storage service for our property? I mean, seriously--setting up an "interest-bearing checking account" is like trusting a stranger who offers to pay *you*...to keep watch over your car for a while... There is obviously something wrong with that deal. (For an excellent survey of this stuff see chapter 1 of Jesus Huerta de Soto's _Money, Bank Credit, And Economic Cycles_ - available for free online at Mises.org).

We also shouldn't have government-set interest rates. The expansionary monetary policy of Benjamin Strong's FED is one of the major reasons we entered the Great Depression, and price and wage controls were the reason it went deeper and lasted so long. It's price-fixing by government. (See Rothbard, _Economic Depressions: Their Cause and Cure_ available free online). The interest rate should be set by the market--just like all other prices. With control over the money supply and interest rates the FED effectively has economic central planning -- bad for everyone (Hayek, _The Road to Serfdom_).

But that said, I completely agree: when I listed the 'what if' dangers to the US Dollar I forgot to mention the huge amount of excess bank reserves that have been built up since 2008 (~$2.2 Trillion USD per FRED). When that levee breaks...watch out. The central bank did the same thing after our great depression (namely, tried to expand the money supply per their proto-Keynesian strategy) but the banks responded the same way, by building up excess reserves. (See Rothbard, _America's Great Depression_ -- also available for free online at Mises.org). What's interesting about excess reserves is--as you mentioned--they get paid interest to keep it out of the economy. It's the FED's "last resort" to contract the money supply since they cannot control it once it's in the banks' hands. The is the latest attempt to control that hack Friedman's problem of MV=PY -- meaning that no one can control the (V)elocity of money. (I say "hack" because it was Friedman's 'quantity theory of money' that influenced Nixon to go completely off of gold in 1971 "we're all Keynesians now" etc. - per Stockman, _The Great Deformation_.) These problems go away with sound money, no fractional reserve banking, and no central bank to deepen the pyramiding expansion scheme (Rothbard). And we get continually falling prices to boot.

Applying this to bitcoin, one of the main attractions (and purposes) of BTC cryptocurrencies is that the supply is fixed: no more central bankers messing with the money supply. No more fractional reserve banking (because the concept of fiduciary media is impossible on the blockchain and the supply of BTC is fixed). It's not a perfect solution (and an earlier poster is completely right that BTC in particular and blockchain in general is not sustainable if only for the energy requirements). But there is no Dodd-Frank "bail-in" law with bitcoin. There is no false sense of security that comes with an FDIC which can only cover a very small fraction of its potential liabilities. The whole system is flawed and bitcoin was the first trumpet call for something radically different.
---
To answer the OP's actual question: yes, I invested in early 2017 and as of a moment ago I am up 5,713%. Keep your eyes out for Hashgraph, BTW, that will blow blockchain out of the water.

sacred | secular sacred | secular
Jan '18

With regards to Bitcoin, I would be watching out for all the other cryptocurrencies. With like 1,300 or more, much of Bitcoin's value fluctuations are due to players opting in and out of other currencies looking for the next big deal. What are you going to do with your 6,000% profit? Let it ride?

The question I have is: what is the underlying value of bitcoin. I asked the same question and, based on the answer, passed on Enron. Funny thing was many companies were actively pursuing the Enron model at the time based on it's success. I kept saying, but where's the value in the model. Could see a sustainable one. I have the same question for bitcoin.

Meanwhile again I commend your research. Think I am more Freidman follower here. But with regards to the Fed, their participation during The Great Depression unfortunately was kind of minimal as well as wrongheaded as you point out. Strong did not measure the money supply but instead went for price stability. I could have sworn his policy caused a contraction in the money supply? But you saw expansion? When the money supply contracted, people ran to the banks which had no Fed for support on a run. Let the chips fall where they may.

And then Hoover's fiscal policies did everything to tank the economy they could. He's the guy I really target although The Great Depression has many stories, some fraught with human frailty.

For example, in those days the Fed was not chartered to bail out failing banks. JPMorgan and associates covered the 1907 runs. But in 1929, there were rumors that The Bank of United States, publicly traded, was shaky. This bank had made it through 1929's market crash. In 1930, rumors continued, reserves fell 20%, a merger was called off, and against a false rumor, a run started in Dec.1930. The bank failed its 400,000 depositors, the most in the nation. JPMorgan stood back. It was run by Jews. However, the failure and the name rang across the United States fueling the panic underway.

Ultimately the bank paid off over 80% of all it's deposits. It probably would have been a good investment. There's a human weakness version of The Great Depression.

Fractional Reserve Banking is hundreds of years old. And probably older before there were banks, lenders used it. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if the Knights Templar used it. I mean once you create script, the concept is pretty much in front of your face. My point is that the FED mandates that the bank keeps something in reserve. Without the fed, like bitcoin, there is no control over how much, if any, reserve is present.

Ultimately I think you answered your own question: "There is no false sense of security that comes with an FDIC which can only cover a very small fraction of its potential liabilities." So as useless as you think it is, I have the FED; what's protecting your bitcoin wallet?

strangerdanger strangerdanger
Jan '18

Oh yeah, one more thing. As you note, Bitcoin is indeed a fixed quantity at 21m coins I think. Of course, there’s no reason for that number except it was the one picked arbitrarily by the creators with no relation to value except your belief and trust. Kind of like fiat money with a one time maximum quantity. Until is isn’t fixed. I mean, what’s to stop the creators from expansion.

Strangerdanger Strangerdanger
Jan '18

1000 people own 40% all bitcoins mined... gee I wonder what will happen to the the price of bitcoins when those 1000people decide to cash out and flood the market with millions of bitcoins????

Jim L. Jim L.
Jan '18

ru, you are one-track which leads me to easily come to the conclusion that you just post to forums to "pump" cryptocurrencies. Stocks, US or global, are the closest thing to value. As we type away and live our lives there are businesses that make it happen and most are public and issue stock. If all of the cryptocurrencies went away today life would still move on albeit the most difficulty would be for the "illegal" users of cryptocurrencies.


Well RU, I think we know what you think of money and bitcoin.

From my reading, it appears that bitcoin's basic inherent value is based on what us oldsters used to call MIPS. So you lend them your CPU, and they pay you in made-up script. The rest is in the noise. Let's face it, what's the value in a MIP? Did you have to buy anything or forgo anything for said MIP?

So there's your basic value equation: MIPS that you don't need or notice.

Now then there's other folks who see said script and decide they want some and are willing to lay down cash. The more who want, the higher the price. That's supply and demand. Right now, for some reason, mostly speculation and criminal, people want it.

And the value now exceeds the basic worth.

Meanwhile.....its the internet so there are no rules. This means lower costs of doing business as well as any protective regulations or barriers. Results include bitcoin's wild rise amongst numerous 40% and 50% crashes in value. That's because underneath it all, there is no value except what RU and others put on it. All this talk about the "next money" is just that; carney barker talk to get the rubes into the sideshow.

So I say a speculative investment with very little underlying value. That do it for you RU?

Also, those silver stories come every time the market overheats or there is a crash. Still a safer investment, unless you thrive on spec, than bitcoin.

strangerdanger strangerdanger
Jan '18

https://www.naturalnews.com/2017-12-10-evidence-points-to-bitcoin-being-an-nsa-psyop-roll-out-one-world-digital-currency.html

Read the article, this is my current belief.


Big selloff going on Cryptocurrencies!

gambler
Jan '18

Time to buy more.

CraftBeerBob CraftBeerBob
Jan '18

LOL, Bitcoin back down to $1,000 very soon.


Still crashing!

gambler
Jan '18

Selling exceeds buying --------> price drop. When there are prices that vary across the exchanges significantly something is wrong, i.e. price manipulation. Not that the regulate stock market is not manipulated, just a matter of how much.


The irrational exuberance in bitcoin makes no sense to me when you consider the whole point of bitcoin as being the first stable, transactional digital currency (which implies it would also be a store of value).

Would anyone ever use a currency that had these wild fluctuations?

Justintime Justintime
Jan '18

It is not a currency, it is a tulip.

:)


I like Fla swamp land and Enron stock myself....

strangerdanger strangerdanger
Jan '18

hit a high of over $19,800 on 12/18. 30 days later it got a low as $9090 today.

as soon as the original buyers cash out and take their millions with them the price will plummet.

Jim L. Jim L.
Jan '18

What if Hackettstown invested in it like some on this thread recommended? Well would have LOST 50% of the investment with more to follow.


Exactly Josh.
Check the Tulip market in Holland in the 1600's.

Stymie Stymie
Jan '18

Hi, I'm back - and wisely stayed away from all your "Stock-Jock" talk and "PHD" explanations on Cryptocoins & Blockchain technology & theories -

just to RELIEVE YOU of that sort with REAL PARTICIPATION & REAL RETURNS on the "NEXT INTERNET" which THEY are !!!

...even if you still believe an earlier commenter said "Blockchain is not going anywhere" [and like those who said when the Internet first came out: "I wouldn't link into it, because I heard/was warned it's dangerous"]

Here's all you need: invest/put in your regular or retirement account:
"BLOK" + start, split, or further diversify/down cost basis/buy more in dips in a sister blockchain/cryptocurrency ETF as well: "BLCN"

All said & all out, as I'm now ALL SET ...for the future/watch my$ grow, Cha-Ching

BitBlockFuture BitBlockFuture
Jan '18

You are a peddler sir.


Ah, another happy camper plays the fiddle while his asset burns. New bottom could be 5,600. Enjoy the ride, it was fun.

Sorry, but I would rather trade on currency than non-currency.... Better yet, I choose to trade on tangible businesses. It's a choice.

strangerdanger strangerdanger
Jan '18

Want a sure thing?

Invest in health care and cancer treatment equipment / medications ...the huge demand has only just begun and ( us ) the babyboomers are driving it

Steven Steven
Jan '18

Can you short BLOK or sell covered calls ? I can’t find an option

Skippy Skippy
Jan '18

sell me this pen

scottso scottso
Jan '18

Just before the election, I dropped a bundle on a Medical Index and a Defense Index. Well, I thought the Med index was nice but boy oh boy, that Defense Index went through the roof and I think we are only halfway there. Was figuring HC would be goaded into a war and the Don ---- well, he would just drop trowel to whatever any general wants.

I love index buys; like using a shotgun instead of a 22 to hit a target. Don't have to aim spot on, just be in the general area.

strangerdanger strangerdanger
Jan '18

Re: Bitcoin

I put a very little amount into bitcoin then exchanged for ripple and reinvested what i had left of Bit, into ETH and a few others on ICO. I am happy with what i did. I didn't invest a lot. But in the long run it pays off. Like any other investment they can lose value with a simple false piece written on social media with no facts backing them up.

We just saw a large drop due to 2 things.
1. Unfaborable social media posts. One being some country stating they are going to regulate crypto.
2. The Chinese New Year. For some reason the chineese will sell just before the new year then after the new year reinvest.

You can see a pattern.


Re: Bitcoin

Every coin is in the red - how we doing boys

Skippy Skippy
Jan '18

That’s a lot of social media.

Strangerdanger Strangerdanger
Jan '18

Doing just fine. Thanks for asking.

CraftBeerBob CraftBeerBob
Jan '18

From where i started, i am doing great. I didn't sell anything on the downward trend as some do. They pay fees then buy at the start of the upswing. When they buy they buy at a higher then market value. All exchanges do that.

I purchased some on the down swing and i am already showing a nice profit with their correction. Now to just ride it out.
Coinspot in Australia has some coins still low if you want to get in before they go up.


Thanks - way too volatile for me but best of luck with it

Skippy Skippy
Jan '18

mayday mayday abandon ship!!

selling below $9,000 man good thing the town didn't buy bitcoins :)

Jim L. Jim L.
Feb '18

I don't trust it or understand its value

LibertyThinker LibertyThinker
Feb '18

Then you’ve got it LT!

Strangerdanger Strangerdanger
Feb '18

"Bank of America Corp. may not be willing to help customers invest in Bitcoin, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t plowing into the technology underlying the cryptocurrency."

BofA Tops IBM, Payments Firms With Most Blockchain Patents

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-16/bofa-tops-ibm-and-payments-firms-with-most-blockchain-patents


Of course, blockchain is open source meaning all the crypto drops as none is the backbone of the future.


Have my sell preset for when the coins make it to that mark. As the Coins I manage go higher, I move it up. After I sell I will set a Buy mark. If I see the coin has stopped dropping before it reaches the mark. I will do a quick buy and then set my sell mark again.

I started with $1,000 2 years ago. I purchased BTC then cashed out and reinvested into some less then penny coins and a few on ICO. I made what I started with and then some. Don't forget to claim your capital gains on your taxes.


You can make money but when the "musical chairs" stops you loose 95%. When this happens, nobody knows. Just because the underlying technology can be used in many areas, don't equate this to current non-state backed crypto as having value. The long term value is only for those using it illegally, and don't think the NSA is not tracking you...


The problem with sell on the drop is what if nobody is buying...


In equities, never had an issue finding a buyer. However, with a set lower limit against a free fall, sometimes the price rendered is quite a bit lower than asked for because of the speed of the free fall.

I do the same thing in equities which is why I have none today......but lots o profit!

strangerdanger strangerdanger
Feb '18

People are buying it's up 8% in the last 24 hours and 1.75% in last hour.

CraftBeerBob CraftBeerBob
Feb '18

Why bitcoin is attractive?

http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/176380/tomgram%3A_nomi_prins%2C_how_to_set_the_economy_on_fire/#more

Justintime Justintime
Feb '18

SD, because what is the alternative to equities? Under the mattress, savings account, even Gold? Strategic real estate investment maybe for the right individual but for the masses its the stock market.


People think that these crypto currencies are illegal. I just listened to a coworker tell me it was. You take your money and invest. You make anything and claim it and pay your taxes then it isn't illegal. Just like the stock market there are ups and downs.

You still gave to claim anything you make on your taxes. I usually put aside a little more then a 1/3 of what i make to pay them.


Just asking. Technically, why do you have to report to irs? Is there any reporting going on? Do you get a 1099?

Really would put a damper on the money laundering aspect.

There are alternatives ijay; just don’t have the liquidity of equities. How liquid is bitcoin? How do you get your cash?

Strangerdanger Strangerdanger
Feb '18

SD, the IRS is getting feeds from the exchanges now.


From
https://www.bitcoin.com/bitcoin.pdf

Here's the opening sentence from a bitcoin document written by bitcoins creator:

"Abstract. A purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash would allow online payments to be sent directly from one party to another without going through a financial institution."

How can an alternate currency, bitcoin, be treated as an equity? By it's very definition, bitcoin wants to compete with the US dollar as safe, reliable medium of exchange but without the manipulation of human beings seeking to leverage it for personal gain.

I get that bitcoin would need to seek a level of value that would make it comparable to other currencies, but this whole business of trading it as a way to "make money" in and of itself goes against the very reason for its existence.

I think that most folks investing in it have no conception of why bitcoin exists in the first place.

Justintime Justintime
Feb '18

way outside my interest or expertise --- so when you all get rich with them - I'll try not to cry...........isn't life complicated enough...

4catmom 4catmom
Feb '18

Not sure anyone is saying bitcoin is an equity; just that you can buy n sell them like you can dabble any dollar. Not sure if there is an index yet but I am sure it is coming.

To say bitcoin is not manipulated by humans is to say human demand does not change the value... Matter of fact, one of the beauties of bitcoin is that there are minimal rules, minimal safeguards, which is part of it's attractiveness as a lower-cost currency. People are playing with the bitcoin market all the time. You just don't know who the insiders (Russians) really are. Probably will hurt it's growth at some point as well just as being a haven for criminal proceeds does not do bitcoin any long-term profit.

"I think that most folks investing in it have no conception of why bitcoin exists in the first place." Truer words were never spoken. Although there's many a time I have bought an asset apparently not knowing things probably obvious to the casual observer.

strangerdanger strangerdanger
Feb '18

I totally understand why it was invented so to speak. Yes if you wanted to send money to someone not using a financial institute you could but still for a fee.

However somehow it became of value and increased in value with purches and use.

Others came along and transfered faster and for lower fees. Those too gained value and incresed.

An old concept came back to new such as credits in the form of ICOs. Companies are opening ico's and awarding tokens that are to increase in value over time.

Where i grew up you could go to a bar and buy a bag of beer tokens for $5. The tokens equaled one beer. Over time the price of beer did go up but not by much. And a beer token was still transferable then. Some places may have a heart attack if you came in with a bag of tokens now there were collected yesrs ago.


What we need is the quintessential JIT 30K foot view although given the subject, probably would give him a brain leak :<(

I mean first we have money, and we know his blue sky on that :>) He thinks fiat money funny.

Funnier still must be his feelings on debit/credit cards: where we take the concept of money and, for both buy and seller additional costs, we vaporize the money and go pretty much completely digital. However, for that additional costs, there's all sorts of rules, regulations, monitoring, safeguards, and controls. IE --- you are pretty much protected. Probably gets that cartoon ear steam going when he thinks credit cards.

Really --- at it's core, bitcoin is nothing more than that, in a debit card form, without most of the additional costs and rules, regulations, and services provided therein.

As to its value; people value all sorts of things. Some with value. Some without. And some that switch from one to the other. Basically without dollars, bitcoin would have no value ---- am I right?

strangerdanger strangerdanger
Feb '18

what can you buy with ur bitcoin? nothing. The price goes up and down by the thousands. fake money!

gambler
Feb '18

Yeah Denis, that's true. But way back in 2008 when bitcoin was in its infancy one of the main points of development was about how to get away from unrestrained (fiat) currencies (which require a trusted third party to every transaction) for e-payments and instead put an electronic restraint on the currency that would be trustworthy without a third party, intentionally making it difficult to manipulate by the powerful - governments, bankers and the like. Similar to a gold-backed currency but modernized for the digital age.

The transparency of transactions is the main feature: everyone can be sure that the bitcoin was exchanged only once, the block chain technology saving the electronic transaction history. Trust in the system is achieved due to the transaction history in the block chain.

Governments don't like it because it's designed to keep third parties out of trusted two-party transactions. If bitcoin becomes popular, it's not because it's value is in dollars but because it's not.

Justintime Justintime
Feb '18

"Yeah Denis" - There is no 'Denis' anywhere in the entire thread.


CJ....

Justintime Justintime
Feb '18

Freudian? ;-)


Simpler explanation...red icon

Justintime Justintime
Feb '18

Mercedes in Morristown used to take bitcoin. There are a few places that accept cryptos.

The fact that people buy coins with actual money gives it value. There may not be a central reserve controlling the valu but that is the idea. No third party involvement.


"The fact that people buy coins with actual money gives it value. There may not be a central reserve controlling the valu but that is the idea. No third party involvement."

So does that mean that bitcoin requires currency to survive? Or just to be born?

A little bit of a misconstrue in that the central reserve alone does not exactly control the currency value; however we are in a modified free float so they certainly can modify the value to an extent. But if the fed controlled it, Greece would be rich versus destitute.

And there is indeed third party involvement with bitcoin. The market makers are there and might even be behind the recent shifts up and down. Fact is without an controls, your wild ride is a guaranteed future bet. Since bitcoin will never be coin of the realm, your ending is probably guaranteed too, even if bitcoin becomes more successful. So enjoy the ride and be sure to get off before it shuts down. (which may have been last week :<(

strangerdanger strangerdanger
Feb '18

I was pretty lucky, i sold a ton of XRP at 2.90. Originally purchased at 0.15. I kept moving the buy line down as the market went down.
I put a buy line at 0.62 and it just processed today. Now trading at 0.75 on my market program.
XRP is looking good. I dont think it will be explosive like bit. But will yeild a nice profit in the future.


Are you guys in the Litecoin split?

You get 10 times in Litecoin Cash if you hold LTC...

Good luck

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-raVquA_zQ&t=118s


From a Bloomberg hit piece:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-06/bis-chief-sees-strong-case-for-intervening-on-cryptocurrencies

“If the only ‘business case’ is use for illicit or illegal transactions, central banks cannot allow such tokens to rely on much of the same institutional infrastructure that serves the overall financial system and freeload on the trust that it provides.”

Crypto competition will eventually bring out all the central bankers of the world to dismiss them. We’ll see the same “illegal” claims over and over if cryptos continue to make headway. The only cryptos they will advocate for will be their own lol

Justintime Justintime
Feb '18

You don't think the NSA is spying, this is an experiment. The NSA has been promoting going to a cryptocurrency since the 1990s and developed the hashing algorithm used by Bitcoin. This is an experiment folks, an experiment which has made some people quite rich but the bottom will fall out at some point. Like mentioned Blockchain technology will live on but it is not tied to any cryptocurrency.


"like I said you can get on the train or get run over by it but you have approximately 6 weeks to learn and buy Crypto Currencies - think March 1st is the drop dead date before the whole thing explodes and you wont be able to afford them or buy with US Dollars. " - RU on 1/7/18

So let's see when you made this claim bitcoin was over $16k. it just had another awful week where's its down over 20% and is at $9k. So down over 40% from when you made your claim.

Jim L Jim L
Mar '18

I don't know that those claims aren't all that true. If I invested in anything that lost 40% in only six weeks, I'd say it exploded and I got run over by a train.


Good things our buildings are low :>)

strangerdanger strangerdanger
Mar '18

It's called buy low sell high. Like stocks when you have sharp or steep increase in value it will then correct its self. Like stocks when news comes out it can help or hurt. Rumor of coinbase picking up Ripple took ripple up and then coinbase released on Twitter that it would not causing it to go back under a dollar.

If you use gatehub for ripple a good tool to use is to sell or ask at a high amount. What ever you are willing to risk. Then hold on and buy when it corrects.

Recent drop in crypto currencies was brought on by requirements to regulate them. Some have already registered for regulation during their ICO period and are not as affected by the other markets.


lots of selling!

gambler gambler
Mar '18

Sold some ripple at $0.70 and bought some Ripple at $0.58. Now on the way up. Waiting to reach the set limit to sell half of what I just bought to buy again at the lower limit.


like I said you can get on the train or get run over by it but you have approximately 6 weeks to learn and buy Crypto Currencies - think March 1st is the drop dead date before the whole thing explodes and you wont be able to afford them or buy with US Dollars. " - RU on 1/7/18


Again Bitcoin was over $16k when you made this claim. it's almost the end of March and its below $8k as of this morning.

Jim L Jim L
Mar '18

I think they be drinking the Ripple.....

Florida swamp land, now there's a market.

Have to sell my Enron to get some.

Hey, wanna buy a mortgaged-backed derivative.....

strangerdanger strangerdanger
Mar '18

Jim I think the references were to Crypto in general which there are thousands of. Not just Bitcoin which is one of many Crypto Currencies.

CraftBeerBob CraftBeerBob
Mar '18

not likely but ok craftbeerbob, then name a crypto that we can no longer afford to buy with US dollars as RU stated would happen?

Ripple is down 80% since his claim
OMG is down 53% since his claim

so tell me which crypto I can no longer afford? Which crypto has exploded to the point we can't afford them? because the investor in me sees the entire crypto has fallen since he made his ridiculous claim that crypto would be taking over the world.

The very fact that there are thousands of cryptos goes against the very notion that bitcoins would replace the US dollar as some have claimed. 1 world currency to replace all government back securities is a joke now that there are so many useless cryptos out there. You're buying tulips, hopefully you bought the right tulip and are smart enough to get out before there are too many types of tulips in the market.

Jim L Jim L
Mar '18

I look at cryptos like stocks. I don't think they will replace currency.
You can buy when they are being sold as an ICO which gives you a percentage more then the developer's starting price. Some crypto currencies have learned that once it goes live, the ICO coin holders sell immediately devaluing the currency so they get the guaranteed percentage they invested in. Now they're putting in rules and regulations where you can only sell certain percentage of that coin bought in ICO over time to control the value better.


well March came and went and cryptos are still affordable. In fact they are below $7k or a whole 60% cheaper from the price RU told us to get on board or get run over. I have noticed he hasn't been back on this thread since the cryptos have started their crash.

The DJIA as crazy as the last few weeks have been is only down 8% in the same time frame.

Jim L Jim L
Apr '18

Now it only needs to post a minor 125% gain... to break even.

Jim L - Don't knock it, there are some good deals in the MagiC BeanS market right now. You should look into it. ;-)


Check out private ledger blockchain for smart contracts - if I was going to invest it would be in etherium - IBM hyperledger has some great stuff coming out too

Skippy Skippy
Apr '18

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/03/bitcoin-price-worst-q1-2018-in-history-119-billion-value-wiped-off.html

Jim L Jim L
Apr '18

I have cashed out what i had started with already and then some. I have been selling high buying low with a few thousands coins on the XRP markets. Sold some yesterday at 50 and bought today at 46. It increases the volume i control. I keep some cash liquid in that account with a really low buy just incase it were to hit that low.

2 years ago a big investment would have turned up big even at the current lows. But everytime someone says regulate or investigate they tank. Then they pick back up.


Remind me again about the infallible security of cryptos? The English translation of "up 30,000%" turns out to be "down 1%". Bitcoin is in the 6700 range for down 14% from just a few days ago. Waiter!! Reality check please!


"If the town invested in only 10 bitcoins - the town would be rich!" - ru Dec 2017


sorry guys I put all the town's money into Bitcoins when it was at $20k. Now that it is at $6700. we are going to have to raise everyone's taxes 200% to recover. LOL can you imagine???

Jim L Jim L
Jun '18

Any smart invester does not invest and let it ride. Watching other markets and news articles regardless of how creditable they are will help you decide when to sell, hold or put to buy again.


Too easy for hackers to steal. One cannot be comfortable to save it over time unless you are a techie and even then someone liken doesn't like it as I have no recourse. Good for spending money, bad to save. But good for a while to make money on the wave until you get crushed. Tulip frenzy part deux...


"Go on Coinbase and buy LTC - it will be Dynastic wealth....your grand kids will be talking about how smart you were". ru Dec 2017 when LTC was at $300. Its now at $82 aka down 73% yikes

Jim L Jim L
Jun '18

But Jim L, it was at 80 yesterday!! It's up, it's up!! We just got a 2% win!! How can you deny a win like that in just one day!!

Only 363% left to go. Just to break even again.


I'm HODLing

friendlyMcFriendly
Jun '18

I have been pretty successful watching the coins and selling when others start dropping. Then buying at a lower price to sell higher again. I dont think you will see the big increases like we have seen in the past. Maybe Ripple or ETC if they get added to coinbase like BTC did then the dropped.


the problem with crypto trading is the lack of volume, on a good day trading volume for bitcoins is around 12k, compare that to a future 500 stock company that sees volumes of in the multi millions each day. 12k people trading bitcoins is nothing, you would probably see more trading at a Pokémon card show. All the hype Bitcoin got in 2017 is over and no one is jumping in.

Ripple sees high volume because it's less than a dollar so people are willing to gamble with a few bucks to see if it takes off. But bitcoin is dead. Trading at $6,000 when six months ago it was trading at $20,000. yikes

Jim L Jim L
Jun '18

1/1/2018 Bitcoin = $14,112
11/15/18 Bitcoin = $5,482

Jim L Jim L
Nov '18

Jim L, indeed. Only invest in bitcoin if you can stomach horrible losses. Sure there's big upside, way too many unknowns. Probably should only invest in it if you can afford to lose everything you put in!

Route 46
Nov '18

So yesterday i saw the DOW start to drop so i sold and watched then bought low.

I sold around 4am this morning after reading a projected 100 point drop at the start. Cryptocurrencies followed, i watched and bought after they dropped. They are back up.

I have mainly traded XRP. Once profits are made i then buy into smaller coins or start up stocks from a start up company promotion page.

Mind you i started with a few bucks. I wouldn't concider myself a wale but i have made a few good grabs.


1/1/2018 Bitcoin = $14,112
11/15/18 Bitcoin = $5,482
11/26/18 Bitcoin = $3,768

Jim L Jim L
Nov '18

The state of Ohio may take bitcoin for tax payments. Even if bitcoin takes off it seems like an irresponsible decision that could hurt all taxpayers.

maja2 maja2
Nov '18

Bitcoin
Jan 22, 2018 $10,944.50
Jan 22, 2019 $3,575.08


LiteCoin
Jan 22, 2018 $180.28
Jan 22, 2019 $31.21

OMG Omisego
Jan 22, 2018 $15.66
Jan 22, 2019 $1.28

Ripple
Jan 23, 2018 $1.35
Jan 22, 2019 $0.32

Still waiting for RU to explain when these cryptos are going to get too expensive for us to buy


"Personally - I buy LTC Litecoin and OMG Omisego every chance . OMG is going up 30,000% according to Cliff High in 2018. -ru 1/7/18"

up 30,000% ?? More like down 98% in 2018. yikes I would probably lose my job if I was off by that much in my prediction.

Jim L Jim L
Jan '19

Jim,
It's about buying low and selling high.
It's not a get rich quick, you have to put work into it.

I know that XRP goes up before their big conferences on speculation and drop once their conference starts. Buya qeek before sell an hour or two before conference.

Also don't forget to set your stop limits


"It's not a get rich quick, you have to put work into it."


Look above CJ - ru, bitblockfuture (etc), and others all disagree. Otherwise if you have to put that kind of work into it, the word is no longer "investing".


GC

I invest only for a few minutes or hours.
I don't believe we're going to have a coin make major gains like Bitcoin did ever again.


"It's about buying low and selling high.
It's not a get rich quick, you have to put work into it."

Thanks for the investing tip CJ, I only have a degree in Finance and a Series 7 & 66 so I was unaware of this buy low sell high investment strategy you came up with :)


But Bitcoins were being sold as a get rich quick scheme, The Hype was ridiculous and novice investors were told to jump in without knowing anything about them. the public was told that Bitcoins were going to replace the US Dollar and disrupt the global way of banking. Well shocker, they turned out to be a tulip and everyone that jumped in at the end of 2017 lost. Sure you can day trade them ( just like any other commodity) and there is opportunity to make some money on them short term but the risk is not worth the reward, the days of huge upswings in their price is gone. On a good day there are a few thousand people trading cryptos. 2017 was all hype and that hype is gone.

Jim L Jim L
Jan '19

Bitcoin is going to run this week - over 8K already will really lift of in June till end of year - will be 20K to 100K by the end of the year. Keep your eye on it.
imo

https://coinmarketcap.com/

Litecoin will run to - that's what ive been told - may get busted down before Thursday but after that you won't be able to touch it - weak hands are out.

Peace out


Silver will run as well...JP Morgan is getting exposed for their Silver price manipulation...Trump is not doing anything...beg to differ - what did Obama or Bush do about this - nothing,,,50 dollar Silver by the end of the year.
imo



How ex-JP Morgan silver trader’s guilty plea could boost manipulation claim against bank

John Edmonds, a 36-year-old Brooklyn resident, pleaded guilty in October to fraudulently manipulating the precious metals markets from 2009 to 2015.

A previously secret guilty plea by a former commodity trader at J. P. Morgan Chase, who admitted that he rigged precious metals markets, has drawn the attention of a lawyer who has already accused traders at the nation’s largest bank of similar conduct.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/12/ex-jp-morgan-silver-traders-guilty-plea-could-boost-manipulation-suit.html


It goes up and down. Sell before the correction. Bought a few lit at 80 and sold an half an hour ago. Holding to buy a few alt coins after the correction.
Had a fun time buy and selling
Tfuel and Matic during their ups and downs. Made a few even got in on PHB and sold before the drop.


Bitcoin only took off due to the illegal uses initially. We still don't know the founder(s) and I say it is likely the NSA. It is just an experiment, that eventually will die away. Government backed crypto is next but no wild swings as it will be backed to a currency. It has taken off as it the dream of many to have a currency not backed by a government.


1/1/2018 Bitcoin = $14,112
11/15/18 Bitcoin = $5,482
11/26/18 Bitcoin = $3,768
05/27/19 Bitcoin = $8,920

LocalBitcoin LocalBitcoin
May '19

To each his/her own...

justintime justintime
May '19

"Government backed crypto is next but no wild swings as it will be backed to a currency"

Well that doesn't make any sense considering 'currency' isn't backed by anything other than ignorant faith.

Meaning the vast majority of common people don't really understand money in many aspects- true worth of what you are holding, interest, debt forgiveness, free college, etc..

There is no 'government backed'- if most people were taught the realities of money, the entire *global* system would collapse.

We can diverge that into numerous topics. Most pertinent for us in this country is simply that most people overspend, over buy, sign bad contracts, save very little- and even those that think they save are probably making bad choices and getting robbed.

Example see- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvZSpET11ZY

And on the other end of the spectrum (yes end of, so worst case), just for fun- lets hit the east coast, country, or even the world with an EMP, knock the power out on a sliding but still mass scale for a solid month to be gentle and see what happens.

The larger the area and the longer the time period and watch how vicious some people become, how worthless 'money' is, and it literally can turn real ugly real fast.

Government backed indeed.

Most people today can't do what your AVERAGE person could 100 years ago. Survive without comfort, a fridge, a supermarket, everything easy access within a 10 minute drive.

Start a fire, grow a garden, chop a tree, drink non-bottled water, ...

And amusingly I know I sound like a conspiracy weirdo or at least an alarmist- and I am not.

I just am aware of what was and what is.

I am ok with where I am even in today's world- but I can see where others are not taught, don't pay attention, are taken advantage of.

Yea it is in 'their' best interest to keep the masses stable and happy- but it wouldn't take *that* much for it all to fall apart.

Am I off topic? Maybe slightly- but that doesn't mean I am wrong- which means this guy saying 'government backed crypto' really needs to open his eyes.


a currency has to be backed by an asset that is scarce and requires work to produce. gold & silver metals were these original assets. Required hard work to produce and the yearly supply was pretty much limited by that work. The limited supply put a cap on inflation. in more modern times it became impracticable to carry around physical gold & silver so we created paper notes that represented that PM. Back in the day you could take that paper note into a bank and walk out with a fixed amount of physical gold. back in the day a note was not printed unless it had a physical piece of gold to back it (and inflation of the currency was in check). In 1972 the final blow was delivered which decoupled the dollar from gold. Now dollars can be printed at will with no regard for inflation - need a trillion dollars - type 1,000,000,000,000 on a keyboard and hit enter and poof ya got a trillion dollars. so yea, the dollar is doomed, your grocery bills are going up because the dollar is going down. Cryptocurrency, in particular Bitcoin, has all the characteristics of an asset with limited supply and requires work (mining) to produce it. Bitcoin's inflation is predictable into the future. 1 bitcoin will always equal 1 bitcoin. no one can type 1,000,000,000,000 on a keyboard and create a trillion bitcoin's. When the dollar finally dies a new currency will need to be adopted, since we are in the digital age a digital currency most likely will win over carrying around a gold coin. perhaps a digital currency backed by gold/silver evolves. And the only backing a government has is fear and physical force - not good faith. a government should never be trusted.

LocalBitcoin LocalBitcoin
May '19

"with limited supply and requires work (mining) to produce it"

Who says? It literally starts with no assets at all. The originators say they limit it but the amount of "mining" may or may not be limited. And if it's work or not who knows, it's all kept anonymous. The only big difference is that if there was that huge influx someone would yell and it would all be dumped. Otherwise a bunch of the crypto story is simple myth.


So using your analogy (trading in a dollar for a physical gold coin) what can I trade in a Bitcoin for? A big bucket of heat that the graphics processor produced during mining? A drawer full of kilowatt-hours?

Mark Mc. Mark Mc.
May '19

Sounds like a legit well managed legal market to me......No chance of scam he said sarcastically.....Aren't any players with money to burn manipulating the outcome. Nah.

strangerdanger strangerdanger
May '19

For those that really want to understand Bitcoin read "The Bitcoin Standard".

GC - you have no idea what you are talking about.
Mark Mc. - I can buy a new car faster with Bitcoin than you can with Gold.
strangerdanger - scams are everywhere, how many times are people ripped off buying coins at a dealer? gold & silver prices have been manipulated for decades.

LocalBitcoin LocalBitcoin
May '19

We’ll see where the bigger scam is.

StrangerDanger StrangerDanger
May '19

"Mark Mc. - I can buy a new car faster with Bitcoin than you can with Gold."

That wasn't my question. You indicated that the problem with dollars is that they are no longer "backed" by anything . I asked you what "backs" a Bitcoin?

Buying goods with a currency isn't the same as having something backing it's value. I can buy a car pretty fast with cash too.

Mark Mc. Mark Mc.
May '19

If you want to make money just follow chatter on twitter and reddit. Look for the pumps and dumps in the alt coins. Just like trading stocks they go up and down. The only difference is that you can't trade stocks on the weekends. Buy a coin low with people talking about a pump or bull on the rise. Set your sell limit and wait. Once you sell move on. Just like an ex don't look back on how it did. With every big gain comes a correction. If you wait to long you may lose more.
I watched a co worker buy a stock based on information on twitter. It of course went up but was below the starting price by noon on Monday.


“I can buy a car pretty fast with cash too.”

Yeah, but don’t get pulled over on your way to make the purchase because your friendly neighborhood LE will likely confiscate your currency (and your current vehicle too) on the assumption that you’re an up-to-no-good criminal because, as you probably know, it’s practically illegal to use actual currency to make large purchases these days.

Regardless, Bitcoin wasn’t intended to be an “investment” to make money on. It was intended to provide an alternative to un-backed, un-restrained, government controlled money creation. The difficulty in creating bitcoin at the time (time required and computer cycles needed “mining” bitcoin) was supposed to be the restraint system to prevent it from being abused. Too bad that technology has made that aspect moot, which also makes bitcoin moot imo.

justintime justintime
May '19

please let me know what dealership you want walk into an buy a car with bitcoins

And like JIT said Bitcoins weren't sold as investments when they came out they were sold as a new currency that was going to replace the dollar and gold standard. The problem with that is there is too much volitility in cryptos for then ever to be considered real currency. Currencey needs to be stable for people to use it. You guys are just trading beanie babies at this point, once those holding large sums of bitcoins sell out and flood the market with supply there won't be enough demand to keep the price up.

move already move already
May '19

"please let me know what dealership you want walk into an buy a car with bitcoins"

Woohoo! There's a Subaru dealer in Oklahoma that takes Bitcoin!

https://cryptodaily.co.uk/2019/02/bitcoin-adoption-in-the-automotive-industry-buy-a-car-with-bitcoin

Actually - there's about 40 total across the nation that will accept crypto-currency (none in NJ or PA).

Meanwhile, I have my choice of approximately 16,700 other new car dealers in the US that take cash/credit/etc. Who will have an easier time buying a car?

Mark Mc. Mark Mc.
May '19

Years ago Morristown Mercedes took bitcoin. They were one of the first dealers to accept it as payment.


Even if they do, the price of the car is still based on the value of US dollars, so what are you gaining by using a different currency? Basically (like justintime said above) you're simply using Bitcoin as an investment vehicle, not necessarily a true "currency". You have to convert (or at least determine the value of) the Bitcoins to dollars when you execute the purchase transaction. Maybe the car will cost 1 bitcoin today, or maybe it will cost 2 or 3... you never know until you lock in the exchange rate.

With that logic, I could say that I'm buying a car in "baseball cards" or "Incan matrimonial headmasks".

Mark Mc. Mark Mc.
May '19

Since currency is tantamount to life for a sovereign state, doubt you will see bitcoin, or anything else, become anything more than an alternative currency vehicle with the added advantage of being digital.

A "world currency," of any kind, might cure many ills that crop up with each sovereign state having it's own currency pegged to this or that, managed by who-know-who, etc. The dollar is as close as we've come and it won't become a "world currency" either.

Meanwhile, you're just playing in an unregulated market of manipulation. Might as well be buying FL swampland; just on a bigger scale. Best luck and please turn your principal into cash ASAP while continuing to invest the profits. Don't bet the farm.

strangerdanger strangerdanger
May '19

Don’t they have bitcoin ATMs in California? I was surprised to see so many car companies taking bitcoin. I could see crypto currency putting cash out of business, altogether, especially if the government accepts it. Then, every penny, spent or gained can be tracked. There’s so many crypto companies, I wouldn’t know which one would actually make it. Bitcoin is WAY too risky, for me, at this stage of the game. All investment trading is one big online gambling business. I’ll stick with Disney, until the healthcare system grabs what’s left. Then I’ll be broke...again. The economy is “booming”, but I don’t see it. Has anyone’s life really changed for the better, since 45? Sorry, a little off topic. It just flows out when there’s any kind of money threads.

Guilty-Remnant Guilty-Remnant
May '19

All wasting time and efforts (and your hard-earned $$$) chasing this Bitcoin chase.

However, since you DO need a Dollar and your Bitcoin Dream, here's the best/safest Bitcoin play:

Just a quick reply to @LocalBitcoin's last comment: My play Knows what I'm talking about, My liquid ETFs can buy (many/more different) cars faster than your Bitcoin, and No Scams here (...unless the manager is another Madoff)

TPAY, KOIN, LEGR, FINX, PLAT, BKCH, GFIN, BLCN, BLOK
(As an equally weighted Basket / Portfolio)

~Playing it, Been up, without the sweat or hassle / to get better Bitcoin sleep~

Go to www.etf.com ie: (adding the symbol at the end or type the symbol in its search tool at its main site) https://www.etf.com/GFIN
for a detailed description/investment objective.

GL!

ftcfda@aol.com ftcfda@aol.com
May '19

Don't do what ftcfdc said.


What is the US Dollar now backed with?

Either use our currency or we will kill you - see Sadam Hussein - Muamar Gaddafi both dead wanted to get off the petro dollar and go to a gold back currency. Suspect Iran is next

Bitcoin is unencumbered by debt - what is the US 20 trillion in debt - what is the US Banking exposure to derivatives - have heard quadrillions.

Watch Deutsche Bank - once that bank goes will bring down every bank in the world within a week.

This was 2016 and things have gotten much worse for the bank - they are the AIG of 2008.

"Last week, the IMF said that, of the banks big enough to bring the financial system crashing down, Deutsche Bank was the riskiest. Not only that, Deutsche Bank's US unit was one of only two of 33 big banks to fail tests of financial strength set by the US central bank earlier this year."

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-36723034

Physical Gold/Silver/or Bitcoin - only way to protect yourself. The Central Banks are buying Gold hand over fist and the private Whales are buying Bitcoin

Peace out


Deutsche Bank is the Canary in the Coal Mine - once that bank goes down you may have a week tops to get your money out of the US banking system.

And you can do your own research on that - their Derivative Book will fold every bank - credit union and piggy bank in the US within a week - ive read their DB is measured not in Trillions but Quadrillions.

and their stock price - don't look to good. Pull a chart - they are the AIG of 2008.

Good luck

Thats the global economy that Hillary, Obama and Bush's all pushed for - enjoy.


What backs Bitcoin - Lets see what AMPEX has to say:
https://www.apmex.com/education/investing/what-backs-bitcoin

Investopedia:- Why do Bitcoins have value:
https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/100314/why-do-bitcoins-have-value.asp

The simplest way for newbies to get their feet wet is to establish a Coinbase account (www.coinbase.com) - it's a registered US exchange headquartered in San Francisco, CA. Create an account for free. You can by fractions of bitcoin - like 0.10, 0.01, 0.005, 0.0025 (or any other fractional amount). today 0.005 of a btc is ~ $43 USD.

Do your own research, learn about bitcoin & the blockchain and why it's a global store of value. Everything you need to know is on the internet.

LocalBitcoin LocalBitcoin
Jun '19

06/01/19 - two 1oz Silver Eagles $35.85 - 0.005 BTC $42.75

LocalBitcoin LocalBitcoin
Jun '19

“What backs Bitcoin - Lets see what AMPEX has to say”

They have the same thing to say that I do... NOTHING backs Bitcoin...

From the article:

“That Bitcoin is backed by “Time” is a great story, but time isn’t something with a cash value.”

“Another feature of Bitcoin, related to its *lack of backing by any commodity* or government, is that it is a decentralized currency”

“should Bitcoin fail, to whom would a carrier of Bitcoin appeal? There is no one to phone or e-mail. There is no office to go to. No person or persons ultimately take responsibility for Bitcoin.”

It’s awesome that the other article has to start out with 5 big assumptions in order to make any sense... effectively “we are going to assume that Bitcoin has value in order to explain why bitcoin has value...”

Bitcoin may/may not be a great investment (it has proven to be BOTH at various points just within the last couple of years), but there is no way to know what, if any, underlying value it actually has. Businesses (through stocks) have market cap, tangible assets, intellectual property, inventory, etc. Even if they were to start failing, there is generally *something* to say they are still worth at least “X” million/billion dollars.

If, one day, Bitcoin is hacked (whether by “cracking” the overall block chain or just “breaking” your individual coins so they fail to validate) or a large investor bails out, that could just be it... poof.

Mark Mc. Mark Mc.
Jun '19

Good articles, thanks.

I loved reading one tracker saying June is traditionally a good month for bitcoin because, well because it's not May or July..... Sounds like a reasonable tip for investing.…..

strangerdanger strangerdanger
Jun '19

Seeing that we all walk around with paper in our pockets that we all agree has *value* I’d be more inclined to believe that *value* is ascribed and not inherent (and certainly not uniform). If and when enough folks believe that bitcoin has value then it will have value. The trait the bitcoin folks are looking for, I think, is a medium of exchange that cannot grow in quantity faster than population or economic growth. Put another way, what’s desired is something that is inherently constrained (by time and effort in this case) so that abuses can be minimized.

Does our fiat currency meet that requirement? Of course not, thus the interest in an alternative...

justintime justintime
Jun '19

It takes time and energy to create a bitcoin, it takes your time and energy to earn a dollar - it takes no time nor energy for the feds to create a trillion dollars. No one can create a trillion bitcoin. fiat is a hoax, we believe in something that absolutely has no value. fiat can never hold value because it can be created out of thin air. When a paper note was backed by gold it had value, because it takes time and energy to mine gold. gold was never poofed into existence, bitcoin can't be poofed into existence. fiat is a hoax and deep down you know it is.

LocalBitcoin LocalBitcoin
Jun '19

“That Bitcoin is backed by “Time” is a great story, but time isn’t something with a cash value.”

cash = fiat = worthless / so yea time has no cash value.

Time is the most valuable commodity in existence - bar none. If time could be given it would be priceless.

LocalBitcoin LocalBitcoin
Jun '19

Bitcoin can’t be poofed into existence. That’s a good one.

jIT, are you wishing that or is that how it actually works? Seems different than what the article says.

StrangerDanger StrangerDanger
Jun '19

OK, so come back and see me when things start getting priced directly in Bitcoin, not just an exchange rate to the equivalent dollars when you want to simply “pay” in bitcoin.

Dollars may lose value over months/years, but bitcoin payments have a *15 minute* window where their value is locked in (until you need to try/submit payment again).

Mark Mc. Mark Mc.
Jun '19

Note - I’m not saying dollars are the perfect currency. It’s just interesting to me that people say the solution to a fiat currency that is potentially volatile is another currency that is 1000x as volatile.

Mark Mc. Mark Mc.
Jun '19

Bitcoin WAS poofed into existence. Somebody wrote it with a computer program.

Just like somebody drew a picture on a piece of paper and made cash.

Both are only worth something because somebody else trusts in it enough and gives you something for it.


Anybody still watching?

BTC up $1191.09 this week
LTC up $20.02 this week

Good times!


"Note - I’m not saying dollars are the perfect currency. It’s just interesting to me that people say the solution to a fiat currency that is potentially volatile is another currency that is 1000x as volatile."

There is a finite amount of Bitcoin that will ever be mined...can you say that about the dollar?

Once Nixon took us off the Gold Standard in 1971 - think it was 1971...the dollar was tied to how much Gold existed in the US Reserves - they couldn't print anymore dollars than existed in Gold. After Nixon took us off the Gold standard the clock started ticking on when the US Dollar would fail.

I mean your argument is laughable and shows your ignorance of how the US Dollar works and how crypto- currency's in turn work..do a little research.

There can only be 21 million Bitcoins that ever can be produced - how many US Dollars can ever be produced? lol

Oh yeah and

BTC up $1191.09 this week
LTC up $20.02 this week

Good times!


"BTC up $1191.09 this week"

It also fell ~$1,200 a couple weeks ago. Hence my "volatility" argument, which is hardly laughable if you just take a look at the BTC trend chart (especially a couple years ago when it spiked and then crashed).


"There can only be 21 million Bitcoins that ever can be produced"

This is true... for now.

https://www.investopedia.com/tech/what-happens-bitcoin-after-21-million-mined/

From the article:

"Once Bitcoin miners have unlocked all the Bitcoins, the planet's supply will essentially be tapped out, unless Bitcoin's protocol is changed to allow for a larger supply."

What's to stop someone (whoever "owns" the protocol) from just deciding to increase that number? (Hint: nothing)

Mark Mc. Mark Mc.
Jun '19

... and in case you don't believe me, the Bitcoin website itself says this:

"Because Bitcoin is still a relatively small market compared to what it could be, it doesn't take significant amounts of money to move the market price up or down, and thus *the price of a bitcoin is still very volatile*."

https://bitcoin.org/en/faq#economy

Mark Mc. Mark Mc.
Jun '19

The value in crypto lies in its ledger for contracts between untrusted parties. We will see it being used for identity and access management in our lifetime

Skippy Skippy
Jun '19

Actually Mark, I think a number of these crypto's have governance models on how and who votes to expand the supply. It is ridiculous to believe the supply is "capped." There are caps, but usually there is a governance and voting model on how to expand the cap.

And which crypto are we talking about: all of them, any one in particular. Anyone see a potential problem with competing crypto's? Perhaps a Highlander scenario?

It's air supported by a group with money to burn, hide, and launder......and the fools trying to make a quick hit without the hard work. And a very few believers.

strangerdanger strangerdanger
Jun '19

Musical chairs. Get your money while you can and don't be left out! Problem with Bitcoin is the network can only handle so many transactions per day, if a major downturn occurs it will become worthless real fast. Facebook backed crypto on. par with the dollar will take over the space except for the criminals.


06/01/19 - two 1oz Silver Eagles $35.85 (0.00%) - 0.005 BTC $42.75 (0.00%)
06/16/19 - two 1oz Silver Eagles $36.42 (1.59%) - 0.005 BTC $46.50 (8.77%)

easiest way to get some crypto is to register with coinbase.com - do it and grab yourself some bitcoin or litecoin. silver will be at $17 and bitcoin will be at $17,000 - and i'm being generous to sliver, real generous.

LocalBitcoin LocalBitcoin
Jun '19

@iJay - facebook is the criminal - and "on par with the dollar" equals what is called a stable coin. a stable coin is not a store of value. ya gotta know what you're talking about before you yabber a bunch of garbage.

LocalBitcoin LocalBitcoin
Jun '19

@skippy - "The value in crypto lies in its ledger for contracts between untrusted parties. We will see it being used for identity and access management in our lifetime"

IBM & Microsoft have projects already in the works for identity and access management - will revolutionize how we interact with systems - imaging having one identity and that is all you need to access any bank account at any bank, your social media accounts, your investment services anything and everything - no bazillion accounts and passwords to remember. I don't know about you but i'm ready for that.

LocalBitcoin LocalBitcoin
Jun '19

Sell your bitcoin and let it ride on Dutch Tulip Bulbs.
Guaranteed winner....

Stymie Stymie
Jun '19

Of course it is not a store of value, but it will address simplicity to pay others around the globe. Bitcoin goes from a few cents to 20k on what? It was generation 1.0 of crypto technology. The electricity used is far too excessive. The "digital" mining is a joke. You are a bit too young, read a little history...


"Bitcoin goes from a few cents to 20k on what?"

vapor


I’m definitely ready for that - Accenture has a patent on private ledger blockchain for financials. It’s going to be big for IoT as well

Skippy Skippy
Jun '19

Can’t you have single identity today either by choice of just one id or by a pw ap that offers single id access but a multitude of ids downstream?

Has anyone here made money on bitcoin? What kind of % and $’s are you seeing?

StrangerDanger StrangerDanger
Jun '19

sure but that's insecure and you wouldn't want to use that type of authentication on an account that could say modify nuclear reactor settings or take air traffic control systems offline.. blockchain for IAM does not require a trusted 3rd party for auth.

https://arxiv.org/pdf/1905.04021.pdf starts around pg 6.

also smart contracts are going to be big - were going to see that used for everything from credit cards to train tickets - in the future you will be "enrolled" in the ledger at birth and that will be your identity.

skippy skippy
Jun '19

There is NO LONG TERM INVESTMENT/NO BACKING VALUE in BITCOINS, it's traded under PURE SPECULATION & due to it's LIMITED/DEFINED AMOUNT of Bitcoins to have, it's categorized as a COLLECTABLE or what you're buying is simply NOSTALGIA.

At best, you can use or tag any value to it the way you would on a BARTER SYSTEM.

Even if there is any such CURRENCY or CIRCULATION of Blockchain Tokens tied to something like the USD Dollar, it's COMPLETELY CONTRARY to have it, a bitcoin, cost or be valued $1 one day and $10 dollars the next day, week, or month ... then/or a penny.


Keep in mind, the main purpose or point or creation of a Bitcoin is the support of a decentralized peer-to-peer payment network that is powered by its users with no central authority or middlemen. ...through a “digital wallet,” which exists either in the cloud or on a user's computer. Where the wallet acts as a kind of virtual bank account that allows users to send or receive bitcoins or tokens (other crypto-coins) to pay for goods or save their credits for future transactions.

...just to support the point it is just a new hi-tech ONLINE "BARTER SYSTEM" ...where or why Bitcoins are best categorized as a COLLECTABLE or what you're buying/trading is simply NOSTALGIA ~ imho

ftcfda@aol.com ftcfda@aol.com
Jun '19

Lol RU cheering LTC was up $20 last week. It finished the week at $131. It was at $350 when he told us to buy it and our grandkids would be talking about how smart we were. RU you have missed every prediction you made on this thread.

Jim L Jim L
Jun '19

Hanging on to some Zil and Link with the announcement from Facebook coming tomorrow on who they will be partnering with. I have held a sinificant amount of xrp too. Who knows. I have my stop losses set too.


Hope you don’t catch the falling knife on those lower limits.... :-(

StrangerDanger StrangerDanger
Jun '19

I have made money back frommwhatbi started with. I also reinvested some of my cash outs into some start up companies.


@LocalBitcoin: Looks like your 'local' Bitcoin was just bested by a new 'nationwide' Libra one... (pun intended, yet, pls see)
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/17/facebook-announces-libra-digital-currency-calibra-digital-wallet.html

@CJ: While you're "making your money back from..." I'm all in the GREEN on my TPAY, KOIN, GFIN, and other bitcoin/blockchain ETFs you told the forum not to look at or do

There's no 'perfect' formula to make money in the Market; just the person with the one that (consistently or less volatility) generates more winners than losers. So good luck on your start-up companies investment plan - and everyone else's on their's and notes/comments during this forum. Thx

ftcfda@aol.com ftcfda@aol.com
Jun '19

"I have made money back frommwhatbi started with" Now there's a investment goal: I made my money back!

"There's no 'perfect' formula to make money in the Market; just the person with the one that (consistently or less volatility) generates more winners than losers." But there is the difference in value versus speculation. And while all investments are speculative, some are more so than others; especially the one's with no real value at their foundation. With bitcoin, there are no assets except the dream, the vision. And while that may pay off, it probably won't or at least not across this many suppliers.

One of the "values' investors tout on bitcoin is the fact they are "capped" supplies. While kind of true, but not absolutely true, the fact still remains that there is zero caps on the number of suppliers offering bitcoin...… Thus, the new names popping up all the time for the next BBD. Wanna bet they all trace back to the same guy?

strangerdanger strangerdanger
Jun '19

https://www.cnet.com/news/facebook-aims-to-shake-up-finance-with-its-libra-cryptocurrency/

Bitcoin and the like will disappear, only to be used by rogue persons (trying to) hiding from governments...


The "i made my money back" ment this. When ever you invest in something you start at a negative. That being said, the money i started with i was able to make back. I pocketed that when i made it and then some. Sure i could have reinvested it but i wanted to pay a loan off. The money i profited from it i kept moving around by buying and selling. Setting buy and sell limits. With those profits i moved into some start up companies through different start up sites. At this point its kinda fun. I have some long holds that have worked out nicely. Others, i read the news and twitter posts. There are more investments into BTC from China now with their currency going down in value. Libra is trying to do what Ripple has been doing. They just have the facebook name backing it.

What ever you decide good luck. Like with stocks they can change with the right or wrong news.


"Bitcoin and the like will disappear, only to be used by rogue persons (trying to) hiding from governments..."


they make up phantom 'cryptos' now.


CJ --- so, you have a minimum of 100% profit in your pocket, I gather, a very short time frame. And now you are still profiting by investing just the profit. Have you tripled yet?

That's pretty hard to do on the stock market and virtually impossible in other markets. At least in those time frames.

What were your timeframes for doubling and then tripling (which I gather you have done) your investment? Is the return's pace static, accelerating, or slowing?

strangerdanger strangerdanger
Jun '19

I downloaded a wallet for BTC in
Back in 2003 and bought a few. Cashed out of half in 2016 bought into XRP when it was starting and 2017 cashed out the rest of btc. As XRP was going up i kept moving the sell limit up as it would increse to gatehub's max. Slowly i took from it and put into LTC and a few others. I lost track and one night xrp and a few others went through the roof and then dropped. It hit all my sell limits. I ended up buying them for less then my sell and then invested in my first start up. I bought into BNB when that started that has now gone up. I found out that some coins are doing great and they do better with anticipation. When the facts come out it may give them a bump but they eventually return. If you see good news buy and set a stop loss or a sell.where you want to profit. Some coins you can profit up to 35% on news alone. In the long run they are not ones you want to hold for a long run. I think Libra is going to slow things down. Unless you are in a group that manipulates the markets i don't see it being what it was and is now down the road.


So are you saying you started in 2003 and doubled by, what, 201x?

I mean, you put the money in on x date, and you doubled on y date, covering z number on months/years...…

And has the pace become static, falling, or accelerating?

(ever notice how gamblers and investors speak in non-numerical or interesting rounding formulas when discussing returns and losses?) Me too, fyi.)

I mean, I have realized 20% in six months this year tween gains n dividends, OK, 18% really, which is annualized to 40%. Given there is a bear in the bull pen, most of what remains has break-even stop loss limits, if the market drops, my returns will plummet by 5%, 5 points, but I won't take many losses at all.

And this rate, I will double every 2. 5 years which is an impossibility, even in this market.

The biggest gain I have is 30% in 6 months this year; guns, you gotta love em, and this is a year where it's near impossible to lose.

So, just interested if you are talking doubling in 12 months or 12 years.....

strangerdanger strangerdanger
Jun '19

BTC - $10,725.00
LTC - $142.68

Gold - $1400.00
Silver $15.35

We have a break-out!


What’s taking you so long?

StrangerDanger StrangerDanger
Jun '19

Once people realize Bitcoin was put out by the NSA as an "experiment" it will drop like a rock.


06/01/19 - two 1oz Silver Eagles $35.85 (0.00%) - 0.005 BTC $42.75 (0.00%)
06/16/19 - two 1oz Silver Eagles $36.42 (1.59%) - 0.005 BTC $46.50 (8.77%)
06/23/19 - two 1oz Silver Eagles $37.42 (4.38%) - 0.005 BTC $53.46 (25.05%)

Silver's on a tare....... it actually is....

LocalBitcoin LocalBitcoin
Jun '19

Libra...... why this is not a cryptocurrency and not a threat to bitcoin and others is out there.... you have to educate yourself..... the book "The Bitcoin Standard" is a great place to start. There are tons of videos on youtube also. Strong Hands.

LocalBitcoin LocalBitcoin
Jun '19

Libra ia going to be a problem. Just imagine the companies who have bought into Libra deciding as a whole to devalue one country's currency on trades. Just look at the companies involved you can see how easily they can manipulate the market. Imagine one of the companies receiving fines or told that they could not operate in a country then them going back to their board and changing exchange rates to favor themselves and to hurt that country.

Not to mention those said companies that have purchased to be part of Libra will be making money on interest in the Libra coin wallet.

I have already authored a letter to a representative at the SEC with my concern. I was writen back and we are moving forward with this.


So wait CJ....when you can’t see the manipulators, it’s OK. When you can, you say you need to regulate.

Think about it.

I am glad u all getting rich, but who isn’t? Old NYC saying; when the cabbies are picking stocks, it’s time to get out. Hope you packed your parachute....

StrangerDanger StrangerDanger
Jun '19

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