National Anthem
How sad has this become. The National Anthem has nothing to do with any cause that is being protested. Yes it is a stage but a sad one at that. These professional athletes are paid an insane amount of money, given all the spoils of life to play a child's game. To kneel is to be a coward and acting like a child. Further more it is a smack in the face to our military. That is what the Anthem is about, written and sang in the war of 1814. People should boycott watching the NFL and any other sport that has its players kneeling for the wrong reason. They can protest for the right reason on their own time. Ridiculous l!
Emosewa Considering all the flack they receive, I would hardly call kneeling in that situation cowardly.
jd2 Yes, kneeling is wrong because everything else they've tried works so well right? Get a grip. They could shout from the rooftops and no one would listen- right or wrong they are getting heard now and I say it's about freaking time. Good for them! Oh and btw getting paid an "insane" amount of money to get brain damage doesn't mean you have to shut up and smile.
RAS Plenty of other circuses to spend your money on if you don't care for it. Money talks, always...
justintime 
CBGB 
Tommy>> Plenty of other circuses to spend your money on if you don't care for it. Money talks, always... <<
On target as usual, JIT!
jjmonth4 Free speech and peaceful protest IS patriotic. These players are kneeling, specifically kneeling, as a sign of respect while protesting inequality.
Gadfly76 How is this patriotic ? Kneeling during the Anthem ? Disrespecting the people who serve and have served our country ?
How about instead of kneeling, these players, many of whom are at least minor celebrities, work with the police and local governments to try and bring people together instead causing yet more division.....
Gman 
There is nothing remotely patriotic about kneeling or putting your fist up in the air during the anthem. Just because it's your exercising your first amendment rights doesn't make you a patriot. Burning the flag is protected by the first amendment, is that patriotic?? Ratings are down substantially 2 years in a row. Money is talking that's why they aren't even airing the national anthem on the networks now.
Most people are sick of this BS.
Denis +1000 Gman! These "protests " are a joke and as embarrassing and ridiculous as the women who wore hats to represent female genitalia.
If you want to enact change then do something tangible. If these football players want to protest police brutality or racial inequality let them go into minority communities and set positive examples and be positive role models. Most of these players have set negative examples for young people of color and because they can throw or kick a ball they have been coddled since high school. Show young black men that it's important to get an education, be a man and a responsible father not just a baby daddy and don't get on the wrong side of the law.
And please, all you bleeding hearts, spare me the white privilege and systematic racism bs. Democrats and liberals are the black persons biggest enemies for treating them like disabled children and imparting the victim mentality on them.
Kneeling during the anthem just shows who the real racists are and who really doesn't care about their own people either. It's all for show. Other circuses indeed. I would rather watch the flea circus, at least those parasites can't help themselves.
Suze 
Boobalaa Many football players already do a lot to be positive role models in their communities. It’s not an either or proposition. Really Suze....just shows who the real racists are?! Your rhetoric makes absolutely no sense.
And I maintain.....kneeling for the anthem shows no disrespect to the anthem, the flag, or the country.
Gadfly - are you Colin Kaepernick? Are you aware that this person who caused all of this praised Fidel Castro, a brutal dictator, wore socks at a NFL game that had cops depicted as pigs, and gave money to a legal fund to try to get free, a woman who killed cops. It is a sign of respect to STAND for our anthem. People gave their lives for our freedom, and it is simply the NFL players buying into the racist "Black Lives Matters" propaganda of the Democrats and because they do not like President Trump, as to why they are kneeling.
And lost in this is Kaepernick SUCKS as a player. He has had horrible seasons recently since Harbaugh left coaching the Niners and he is a bad football player. No one wants him on their team as he is controversial but he is an awful player and more importantly, person, for his stupidity. Fans need to stop supporting players who kneel when the Anthem is being sung as if they are doing that they are anti-American. End of story.
Oh, say can you see by the dawn's early light
What so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming.
"What so proudly we hailed" To say that kneeling, or raising your fist is not disrespectful to the anthem is absolutely absurd!!
Spot on Denis! I am a big NFL fan but I am turned off by any NFL player that does this or any coach or owner that allows such ignorant players on their team, as I am not a fan of any of those players. The NFL needs to take a page out the NBA Commissioner's book and make it official policy to stand for the pledge for every game, especially when the NFL does its "Salute to Service" for Veterans' Day in November. They better not allow any kneeling then as some of these uneducated football players need an American History and Civics class to understand what this country is all about.
Plus never liked Kaepernick. With all his tattoos, big nose and prissy behavior on the field, I never liked him. He needs to go away as he is not getting jobs in the NFL because he SUCKS at football.
Emosewa, there was no “War of 1814”. Perhaps you meant the War of 1812?
Also, your claim that the song is about is also false. It was written by Francis Scott Key as a poem before being set as lyrics, and depicts a flag standing and being visible through a battle. Which of the five stanzas/verses is your favorite? Did you even know there were five? Or were you aware the melody came from what some consider a drinking song?
Additionally, I have friends that are currently serving and their opinion of all this? They don’t care because these are still americans that are exercising their first amendment rights that they protect. That’s more important to them than to have everyone fall in line.
btownguy I respect your friends service, btownguy, but still very wrong for people to disrespect the flag. Not right at all. Stand for the pledge and I also knew the War of 1812 was when this song was created but do not try to "school" us and go away from the issue. Bottom line, it wrong for athletes who make millions to disrespect the people serving our country now and made the ultimate sacrifice throughout our history to protect our freedoms. To me, I wish this would go the 5-4 conservative Supreme Court, as they will tell you btownguy, in my history lesson, based on how they rule this is not free speech, but rather disrespect.
It is not the original poster who needs the history lesson, by the way, it is you and the NFL players who do not have the common sense to realize not standing for the National Anthem is disrespectful. Give me a break.
@btownguy, your sampling of friends does not represent the feelings of veterans across the board. Of course like any other poll you will have differing opinions, but a recent survey showed 39% of veterans will boycott, not disapprove Boycott the NFL because of this.
There were less than 10 players kneeling for the anthem a few weeks ago with 4 of those on the Cleveland Browns , that protest was dying out and going away . Then someone in Fat Fool Trump's circle of dividing moron advisors mentioned to use that before a crowd of Alerbammer hillbillys to fire up his idiot base of knuckleheads by calling NFL players SOBs . So now over 100 players kneel in a movement that was dying thanks to the Chimpanzee in Chief who still seems to resent the NFL for not letting him buy an NFL team in the 1980s .
Did anyone actually know the practice started in 2009 when the Pentagon started to throw(waste)millions at the NFL to promote the military ? In any case I'm watching more pro football than ever and there's a lot of good entertaining games .Thank you Dumb-old Drumpf !
https://thinkprogress.org/nfl-dod-national-anthem-6f682cebc7cd/
realitycheek @realitycheek, you're in the minority, because the trend is going down down down,
http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/nfl-tv-television-ratings-down-numbers-national-anthem-protests/l2x7dhlkuubk1tbeftag9ttis
That may be good if it gets rid of the worst NFL commissioner ever . Seriously the Jets get a legitimate touchdown revoked with all the replay cameras in this day and age . With all the bad calls this season it's like the replacement refs never left . The casual fan will always leave and might be a cord cutter tired of paying high cable bills . For example I can find any game I want in 720p HD on Reddit NFL streams . With a desktop , laptop , and a tablet that's 3 games I can watch at once in full HD (putting any game on my 58 inch tv when I want) without cable tv service . Why anyone not running a sports bar would stay stuck in the 90s and pay hundreds for Direct Tv Sunday Ticket is beyond me !
We agree there, Goodell is the worst. That call was ridiculous. 1 they got it wrong, 2 nobody tunes in to see the refs, or the clowns at the NFL office decide games, 3 their is supposed to be clear and compelling evidence to overturn the call on the field, no one in their right mind can claim there was, and 4 the whole touchback rule is a dumb rule to begin with.
Well Here we go I have decided to boycott foot ball till this stops and I have sent letters to manufactures and makers of product that is advertised durng the games as I will not buy from you as long as this is happening I feel that the ball club owners need to get off there butts and tell the players that they will be fined
Caged Animal If you do not like what the American Flag stands for, what the National Anthem represents and the sacrifices that many hundreds have made to keep old glory flying high then let me say this LEAVE the United States.Go to where ever you believe life is better and I will help you pack.
D. Stewart. I’m surprised you haven’t all been more vocal about JR’s flag protest over the past 8 years. I find it significantly more disrespectful than kneeling.
Millionaire blacks protesting inequality after a 2-term black PRESIDENT.
Makes sense.
And no, I won't use the term "african-American".... unless YOU are from Africa....
"A Black American - Smokey Robinson"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rve7N1Brcp0
"That may be good if it gets rid of the worst NFL commissioner ever ."
+1000
That jackass is fine with Kaperpunk wearing socks depicting police as PIGS, but not ok with someone wearing cleats in tribute to 9-11, or someone wearing purple cleats for domestic abuse awareness (plenty of domestic abuse in the NFL), or the Cowboys putting stickers on their helmets in tribute to murdered police officers, but A-OK with kneeling during the anthem, which if the tv ratings are any indication, is pissing ALOT of people off. There's a rule on the books the players must stand. All Goodell has to do is enforce it. He wears his politics on his sleeve, and obviously an awful lot of us are simply sick of politics- it's everywhere. It's inescapable. Especially since Trump won. We watch football to get AWAY from such things, and are OFFENDED (yes, you read that right), that the players are INFECTING our game (yes, OUR game- WE pay for it, just like we pay for government) with politics.
SHUT UP AND PLAY BALL.
SHUT UP AND SING.
SHUT UP AND ACT.
Or, suffer the consequences of your actions. Because actions HAVE consequences. Free speech does not protect you from the consequences of asinine actions. You can still "protest", and we can stop watching. See how long that lasts when team payrolls start dropping.
JeffersonRepub Hiposter, so you’re against freedom of expression eh? Interesting. I guess we should all fall in line and do as the state says? Or we could be individuals and practice the freedoms we are given.
The actions of these players and other individuals doesn’t impact me because you’re talking about a song and a piece of cloth. A piece of cloth that stands for the travesties committed by our nation as much as the actions of our soldiers. I’ll respect the men and women, not the fabric.
If you don’t like it, Change the Channel. No need to sit and try and get some attention for yourself by making a scene. At least these protestors did it silently.
I am amazed, as a black man, that so many of you really have no clue as to why they are kneeling.
Once again the message is getting lost, but you really wouldn't understand what is happening in inner city streets to young men and women being murdered in cold blood by the police. I grew up in that setting and it's actually much worse that is actually being portrayed...it's what you DON'T see that is really troubling.
It's real easy to say they are disrespecting the flag but that's the narrative and people run with it like sheep. I wish some of you really could know what it is really like to be a target...racially profiled....how it is like when as a young black man you are pulled over...beaten up and left in an alley...or worse....because they CAN and you have no voice. These are things that are happening that white people turn a blind eye too because you have not lived it, you have NO idea what it is like. I have never commited a crime in my life but have been harassed, assaulted and racially profiled in areas such as South Orange, Maplewood, Bloomfield etc...
Try to imagine what it is like from a different perspective...I know that's hard to do but you may have a better understanding why these issues need to be addressed. I'm thankful going from humble beginnings to become the successful man that I am, because the experiences are invaluable.
But to say "they" are disrespecting the flag is not what this about...I know Trump has you believing that but it's simply not true.
And before someone says it....because I read these forums and know someone is going to say it...all police are not bad, or the enemy. I have a couple of friends and family in law enforcement, my brother is a lifelong marine...so that is not the premise of my post. Some of you really need to open your eyes and see what is happening...but the truth is many of you simply don't care. For the most part people only care about the things that are important to them...which is sad but that is human nature
At first I was saying: wtf is wrong with these primadona's.... Then I saw these comments and realized what seems to be more important to the majority of HL-ers is THAT they are protesting; and that they are protesting during the SSB.
Believe it or not there is a code of etiquette here with civilians rising, turning to the flag if present and covering their heart. Military in uniform salute, and in civy's, may salute. There is no enforcement or penalty.
So there is a code and it should be respected but it's not mandatory or punishable, by law.
There also is a code of civil disobedience, as JR notes, by those who "play ball, sin, or act" especially at awards or openings.
So there is a precedent which may or may not be respected and it might be punishable, but not by law.
Thus we take it for what it's worth, case by case, time by time. As HL, we allow and rarely discuss misuse of the flag by folks like JR but rant if NFL participants do something similar. And in all of this, we post umpteen times without even discussing the protest issue: police brutality. Guess that means the protest is a bust for Hackettstown, I know it didn't bring the issue to my attention in any special way.
Guess I am just saying I am really confused on this one..... :>(
strangerdanger "Or, suffer the consequences of your actions. Because actions HAVE consequences. Free speech does not protect you from the consequences of asinine actions. You can still "protest", and we can stop watching. See how long that lasts when team payrolls start dropping."
No sport has a bigger decline in TV ratings than NASCAR and that has nothing to do with protests over social issues. So, there may be some other mechanisms at work with respect to sports TV viewership as a whole and too much correlation between declining NFL ratings and the anthem may be assumed where it's not necessarily the case.
ianimal Rickter1 I am white and I so get what you are saying and I believe it is much worse than it appears. People just don't want to believe it. I was in line at a DD at Foxwoods and some white guy starts up a conversation with me about a John Legend show he went to and how it was great but he had stuff about racism in it. This guy says to me "I really don't believe in that anymore". I'm ashamed to say I didn't ask him what he meant by that- I didn't feel like engaging with a stranger on my vacation but I think I missed an opportunity there. Whenever I think about it I'm still amazed that he said that to me. SMH
I don't have a problem with people protesting. If people feel unjustly treated, they should speak out about it. I just wish they didn't protest during the anthem. They could do it before or after the game or wherever and whenever else. I'm sure the media would cover it.
NASCAR's ratings declined because they changed the rules drastically. Even my husband, lifelong racing fan, rarely watches anymore.
Calico696 "we allow and rarely discuss misuse of the flag by folks like JR"
haha. Good one. We've been over that, and you have been weighed, measured, and found lacking on that issue... by many people other than me.
Rickter1, thank you for your post. I think many white people are not aware because they don't want to be, or simply don't care because they don't have to, it doesn't affect them or their family.
Birdie People have been protesting about it for years and years and years. And you still get Ferguson. What would you do??? You have to do something that gets people's attention and can maybe effect change otherwise more brothers and sisters will keep dying.
If you choose the wrong place wrong time to protest, your original motive will never be heard.
Unfortunately for these protesters, disrespecting our flag, our veteran's, and our nation as a whole far overweight's whatever they are protesting for. Good luck getting your point across, you're just going to further piss of the very people you are protesting.
What I want to know, and it's a honest question, because I could not find any factual evidence, and maybe I am just mislead by the media, but, what is Police on black crime vs. black on black crime?
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/451466/police-violence-against-black-men-rare-heres-what-data-actually-say
Darrin RAS,
I could tell you what I WOULDEN'T do, and that's taunt the very people you are having a problem with by disrespecting the nation, essentially creating a even bigger segregation.
@Gadfly - as they say, I can explain it to you, but I can't make you understand it. Willful ignorance is a sad and sorry thing.
Yeah Darrin. Wouldn't want to provoke more cops into shooting more unarmed black men.
@RAS - Ferguson?! You mean when a city was destroyed over the death of a criminal? Do you really expect people to feel sympathy or empathy for that?
Michael Brown was a criminal who did not listen to a police officer. He was not some gentle giant out for an innocent stroll. Talk about SMH.
Strangerdanger it was a justified shooting. Michael Brown beat on the cop. There's 2 videos out there of Brown beating on two civilians too. This wasn't some good kid randomly shot.
Metsman btownguy, these players are on the clock when they're protesting. If any of us protested at work we'd get fired. Let's get real... They can protest on their own time...
Yes, SD, it does. You come back at a cop after having just committing a crime what do you think they're going to do, hand you an ice cream cone? Like I said to GF, willful ignorance...
Suze....everyone...is the PRIME example of why players are kneeling.
Like I said earlier...blind eye to the issue.
If you can't understand how many...on camera shootings of unarmed black men and women that have escalated over the past couple of years then you simply don't want to see it, and you have a right to feel whatever way you want to about it. Some people will never care, or have sympathy for the families of these people being MURDERED by the police and getting away with it.
But the sad thing is it will never change, people like you will always be around to try to make sure we "stay in our place"
Talk about ignorance. I wasn't referring to a shooting. I was referring to the SYSTEMATIC abuse of power over the denizens of ferguson, via the actions of law enforcement, the judicial system as well as the political establishment. A broken tail light or not using a turn signal could and did result in massive fines and incarceration. Which in turn resulted in lost jobs and ability to pay such fines. All branches of civil life colluded to deprive the people of this town of their money. That's not to say that everyone living there are angels- there are bad people everywhere. But, when friends and relatives won't come to see you in your town because they can't afford the very likelihood of getting stopped for whatever reason, that seems to say it's much more than your usual policing.
No, Rickter, you can think that if you want. But I will tell you this, between me and my family we have been crime victims ranging from sexual assault to violent armed robbery - every time the perpetrators were black. That's just my personal experience, so if a majority of crimes are committed by a particular group who do you think the police are going to profile?
I will tell you quite honestly that we chose to move away from areas where we were living because we no longer wanted to live in fear. So, why is your fear more important than ours? We were victims too. You want to protest police brutality and I would love to be able to protest the criminal element that invaded my hometown. But it doesn't work that way.
You do have a choice to live a decent life or a criminal life no matter what the media and liberals tell you.
RAS - in my first post I said spare me the systematic racism bs. Yes, ignorance and bs. There are many successful black men and women. Everyone has the ability to make choices and work hard to achieve success. Not everyone chooses to do so but instead chooses to blame everything else and cry victim.
Some people will never care, or have sympathy for the innocent black babies being MURDERED by their own mothers and doctors and getting away with it.
scottso Rickter1 you said you were assaulted by police. What exactly were you doing when that occurred? I have no doubt there is a tiny percentage of bad cops out there, but to say this stuff is widespread is a load of crap.
Ok, that is fair....so let me make sure I have this right...
The majority of crimes commited are by black people u say.....therefore it's ok for the police to profile, assault, and murder black people.
AND since you have personally been assaulted by black people in your life then that in a sense makes it OK for the police to keep doing what they are doing.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you could care less if innocent black people get killed by the police. In your eyes we are all the same...it's really is a sad way too look at life but I digress.
But yes...that mentality is why black players...and white players also, are standing up to this issue. Doesn't have a damn thing to do with who someone voted for, repub or liberals, nothing to do with any of that.
To put it blunt it must really piss you off that we can vote, and can use the same water fountain as you. Hope you enjoyed Charlottesville
Rickter, you're obviously the one with a chip on your shoulder. By your thought process, all blacks are innocent and all whites are oppressors and we all owe you reparations even if our ancestors never set foot in this country until after slavery.
Waaah waaah poor victim.
Metsman on 2 occasions actually, I'm 42 now so we are talking mid 90's...early 2000's
Never arrested, but what happens is they find any reason to pull you over...illegally search you car...ask you what you are doing around here, and when they find nothing sometimes you get roughed up...you know, punched in the kidney....thrown down with a gun pointed at your head, choke holds..... it was pretty common in certain areas in nicer suburbs in Essex County.
After a while you just stop going to see friends in certain neighborhoods (suburbs) because you know pretty much if they see you they are pulling you over. The fear of the police is REAL....thank God I was never shot but there wasn't iphones back then to record what is really happening out here, that to my surprise so many is turning a blind eye to. This started out as a protest against police killings...now people have completely forgotten about that and made it about disrespecting the flag..just shameful.
If course there are successful black men and women! And that is in spite of the systemic and yes it is systemic even if you don't think so. But that doesn't mean everyone has the ability to overcome the odds that are STACKED against a person of color. Obviously your experiences were horrible and will not allow you to see another point of view. I'm so sorry those horrible things happened to you and your family. I can see where it would be easy to say, hey they're criminals and will be treated as such. The problem is, which came first- if you are consistently discriminated against and treated like a criminal when you are not, and it affects whether or not you can get a job, promotion or even a living wage, a car, a loan, a mortgage, what do you do? And you can't get justice in the courts? You just go to the soup kitchen and say oh well? Write an editorial? Say pretty please stop discriminating? It's very easy to say what you would do or not do when it's not happening to you. I'm not advocating for turning to criminality but at least try to understand what's been happening for the past two hundred years.
Suze...I believe you are the one who talked about being assaulted by black people.
BTW if you think anyone...on earth...believes all black people are innocent...when I grew up in the hood, you are completely clueless. Most of my friends are white...btw, and live in Warren/Morris county
Nice try tho, enjoy your day and wear your hood, kinda chilly out
Ok, Rickter, enjoy wearing your black panther beret ;)
RAS, I'm not denying there is racism in the world and in our society. My point is that we have come a long way and people have choices. The biggest struggle anyone has is poverty and poverty affects all colors. Think about those in Appalachia for example.
I applaud the black men and women who were the pioneers in their fields and lay the groundwork. Just like those of Asian, Jewish, Italian, etc. and women in general but there are those who choose to jump over obstacles and those who stand and rail at them and blame everyone else for their situations.
"Never arrested, but what happens is they find any reason to pull you over...illegally search you car...ask you what you are doing around here, and when they find nothing sometimes you get roughed up...you know, punched in the kidney....thrown down with a gun pointed at your head, choke holds..... it was pretty common in certain areas in nicer suburbs in Essex County."
And you were doing nothing but minding your own business when these things happened. Uh huh... That's believable...
Yes, I know that everyone points to different ethnicities and races and say, oh well they jumped over their hurdles so why can't black people? I believe it's because the size and extent of the obstacles are not comparable. It's not just one facet of society that is against black people, but all facets. Do I know this for a fact? No, I'm not black. It is what I suspect and what happened with the societal machinery in Ferguson backs that up.
RAS that's a load of crap. Chicago is a perfect example. Black on Black crime is at ridiculous levels. They need to clean up their communities and stop blaming everyone else.
Check into any and all experiments that address privilege. There is an awesome video example from "Woke Folks" on facebook, it's called What is Privilege? Especially if you don't believe in systemic racism. No there are not more racists in this country, than non racists(maybe in this town & county), but they all came out to vote in 2016!
townie I agree metsman blacks are killing blacks at an alarming rate. Percentage wise a lot more white cops are killed by blacks than that of white cops killing blacks. Do we go and burn down cities like in Baltimore? Is that a protest? Come on let's tell it like it is. There are always going to be issues that set examples but the behavior and protest is ridiculous.
"but they all came out to vote in 2016!"
Ah yes, all Trump voters are racist!
Please point me to the black candidate that the Democrats ran in 2016?
I can point to black, hispanic, and Indian (as well as both men and women) that the Republicans ran in the primaries.
I'd have voted for Ben Carson, Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, or Bobby Jindal in a heartbeat over Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders. I'd also have voted for Carly Fiorina in a heartbeat over Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders.
Amongst the Republicans (in the primaries), I didn't vote for several of them because they either had already withdrawn or I wasn't sure they were even awake half the time (hello Ben - eat a Snickers or something!). Race/sex had nothing to do with it, and constantly blaming racism for that loss is actually just a racist deflection.
Mark Mc. I still say it's the chicken and the egg scenario. But I guess we all just found out that the people who don't "believe in racism anymore". A guarantee that it will always exist. Good job everyone! Ta ta
“Nice try tho, enjoy your day and wear your hood, kinda chilly out”
It was chilly out so I did wear a hood.. thanks for the tip
Booster90 ras said - "the SYSTEMATIC abuse of power over the denizens of ferguson, via the actions of law enforcement, the judicial system as well as the political establishment. A broken tail light or not using a turn signal could and did result in massive fines and incarceration. Which in turn resulted in lost jobs and ability to pay such fines. All branches of civil life colluded to deprive the people of this town of their money. "
yes, the abuse of power by the government, local officials using the power and authority of the police force to prey upon the tax paying 'civilian' public is something that needs to be addressed.
the michael brown shooting had nothing to do with any of that, and yes i believe that young black men in this country are targeted by the cops for extra harsh treatment on a massive scale. that doesn't mean that the cops should all be shot however.
we need more level headed justice in this country, that's for sure.
BrotherDog Metsman...
Please explain how the violence in Chicago and black on black crime has anything to do with cops shooting unarmed black men and women, all over the country?
The violence in the black community needs to be addressed, I say it all the time, we are killing each other for no damn reason, it's sickening.
But can you understand why one has absolutely nothing to do with the other? Unlike popular opinion on this board there are many black people who are not monsters and "blaming others"...but we are tired of the killing of our people by cops, and nothing being done about it. We don't need to go case by case but we have all seen the videos, it's a problem.
Using the excuse of "they do it to themselves" is no excuse for what is going on, hence the kneeling. Some of you people on here really have no idea of how disgusting this behavior is, and white, black, orange, we should all stand up for unfair treatment by police officers.
It could be your son or daughter next time...it's not like we are the only ones being victimized by police brutality. But it's like anything else, until you have experienced it firsthand it doesn't register.
IMO every discussion about racism is wrong because the premise of racism is wrong. Attributing traits to *anyone* based only on appearance is impossible; the best that could be achieved is a loose relationship due to other factors like social constructs and economic status. Inference of violent tendencies, for instance, stems more from an inductive reasoning process than deductive: in some circumstance it'll be true, but obviously not in all cases and thus there's no basis in attributing violence with ones skin color.
Iow, belief in racism - attribution of traits to an entire group based ones race - can never be logically argued and is, quite frankly, used as an easy way to view hard problems. Collectively we should put that one to bed and concentrate on the real reasons for angry and violent portions of our society.
Promulgating racism needs to stop, no matter who's using the term. It only exists because people *believe* it's true, some acting on that belief. Time to stop focusing on it, perpetuating it, and focus on what's really the problem.
It's a peaceful protest to bring light to the situation, so regardless if Kaepernick plays another down in the NFL at least it's not being ignored anymore.
This will all be forgotten in a couple of months anyway. Casuals who enjoy being fake outraged will have moved on to something else
If you have enough nerve to attack them, then you deserve to be shot. Why should they have their lives endangered because some thugs don't want to comply... Your hands can be deadly weapons too. People of all races get shot. Sometimes cops mess up. Those ones get fired and in some instances like the cop from South Carolina who shot a fleeing black man, they go to prison.
"The violence in the black community needs to be addressed, I say it all the time, we are killing each other for no damn reason, it's sickening."
You pretty much answered it right there. A large portion of the black community don't know how to act, which leads to a certain response by police.
Wow --- way to go guys. Now we is talkin some issues. OK, tongue firmly implanted in cheek....
"Think about those in Appalachia for example." What? Are cops shooting always-armed coal miners in Stumptown again? :>)
"we have come a long way (baaaaby) and people have choices. " Did those unarmed guys choose to be shot? "and those who stand and rail at them and blame everyone else for their situations." ......are you typing in a rail-of-a-blog blaming others for your situation called our society?
"enjoy your day and wear your hood" but don't wear a hoodie, because round here, that's shootin apparel.
"Black on Black crime is at ridiculous levels. They need to clean up their communities and stop blaming everyone else." Because I wouldn't frickin lend a hand to this community even if you paid me (like being a cop :>) PS--what is a ridiculous level for black on black crime anyways? I think this diverts us from the real problem in Hackettstown. That's white on white crime. I mean unless we import more black criminals, our white on white crime rates will be double that of the nation and 500 times that of Detroit. Contribute at #blackcriminalsneededcrowdfunding so we can improve our diversity image.
" I believe it's because the size and extent of the obstacles are not comparable. It's not just one facet of society that is against black people, but all facets." Aye there's the rub. What if it's two things? First, the human need to feel better in the resolute knowledge that there is someone who has it worse. And second, hey, they're black, let's pick on them. Everyone else can blend, can hide. We call it assimilation........ Or for the highbrows, prejudice and assimilation.
I've done this before but here's an anecdotal timeline of prejudice and assimilation: one branch of family tree came here in 1865 from Northern Ireland to work as laborer in the steel mills while forced to live on Whiskey Row with the other Irish. All kids, even at age 16, in schools. First marriage out of Irish Catholic fodder was our third generation Irish American. First college entry was 1946, post WWII, so might have been a few years earlier if no war plus a scholarship which would have been there. That's basically 80 years and a few generations to get off the factory floor, Whiskey row and get the education to get you to Wall Street. That's even when the first generation of kids stayed in school until college. Now, granted, "Irish need not apply" signs met them as they started their journey but within one generation they infiltrated a business, started hiring mostly Irish, and after that married outside the faith and heritage, and then a few generations later, got advanced education at a good school.
"One generation got old, One generation got soul
This generation got no destination to hold
Pick up the cry
Hey, now it's time for you and me
Got a revolution"
Oh wait, that's talkin bout my generation.....back to my story....
Now, they didn't have their family structure, culture, religion, etc. etc. etc. not only SHATTERED but literally beaten out of them to the point of suffering the most severe case of Stockholm Syndrome ever imagined. One hundred years of destruction. My ancestors could read, write, and do sums; they we not uneducated. And they most certainly were not totally uneducated. And, after a pretty short time, they could look and act just like any other American; they did not have to stick out as different IF they so chose.
Just saying I can only judge from what these folks say is happening and it sure seems like it's not just a-ok, or "we've come a long ways baby," or please take care of me. It sounds like you do not have equality, not only in law, but throughout our society and culture at RAS+1 just said. I am not without prejudice against more than just conservative ideals :>) I am not there yet. Two sides of the street with groups of teens I need to pass through. Black or white ---- choose your side. I still choose.
"Sometimes cops mess up. Those ones get fired"
Not all of them, that's the problem. If the "bad apples" would be recognized and punished as such, the divide would be greatly lessened.
MB @Ricter1, no one needs to be told by Trump that sitting, kneeling, or putting your fist in the air during during our national anthem is a sign of disrespect to our flag and country. It's common sense, and that's why Kaepernick was greeted with a chorus of boo's at every visiting stadium. The ratings started tanking last year. Personally whatever your message is, if you choose to disrespect our flag and country as of form of protest, I'm not listening.
btownguy your ignorance speaks volumes. If you do not get why it is not right what these NFL players (or thugs) who disrespect the flag are doing by kneeling, you need more of an education in history than what you have. It is wrong, period and I am right on this issue and nothing you say will change that. The players should be giving more money to military organizations that support our troops as well. It is anti-American to do this and I am sure the ratings going down has everything to do with people, actually being American, patriotic and turned off by these players.
Once again, Kapernick is a thug and an untalented player. He should save his money as he will never play football again. And believe me, I have stopped watching a lot of football as it is a turnoff when players, who have no education, or patriotism do this in front of fans giving their hard-earned dollars to watch the game and they are disrespecting our veterans. You are totally wrong and very ignorant with your statements.
Aaaaaaaannddd, Mistergooglestrangedoofus wins the award for cherry picking and taking words out of context once again, oh and of course posting a ridiculous diatribe. Seriously, as I've said before, like a toddler with a stinky diaper that desperately needs changing but at least the toddler has a good excuse, SD just desperate for attention.
hlposter you do realize they started kneeling in 2016... aka during the Obama years.
Jim L. "Once again, Kapernick is a thug and an untalented player"
what exactly makes him a thug?
He was a 4.0 student in HS. Graduated Univ of Nevada with a BS in Business Management. very religious (most of his tattoos are bible verses), has never been arrested... so what exactly makes him a thug?
My whole question is why do people think Soldiers are so sensitive? If we are offended we say something, if we don't care we say that too. It's an individual decision to agree or disagree with this movement. Now people acting like they are super supportive of troops even on this thread I call bs. I'm not for the kneeling personally but I'm not for prosecuting them for doing it either. All these opinions are great but I don't see anyone standing up at home when the anthem is played, showing respect for the flag (it is put out and often destroyed, not protected, touching the floor, you know disrespectful stuff)
Be the change, support a veterans organization, support the local police, support educating others on the law, support people exercising their rights, work on having a real conversation and not this rhetoric.
David T. Next year the NFL will have rules in place banning anthem protests since the owners see it eating into their bottom line - probably not as much as cable cord cutting , but whatever . Commissioner Greedell wants the NFL's 2016 14 billion dollar per year revenue to rise to 25 billion by 2027 - good luck with that ginger boy ! As far as Kaepernick goes all he had to do was remain on the 49ers and collect 14.5 million , but he quit and now an obsolete run/read option QB (who won 3 games in 2 seasons) can't get an job in the NFL(I'm guessing those pig socks had a lot to do with it) and is suing them for collusion . Kap will never be an NFL QB again(after suing the NFL) , the NFL will have talks with the players this week to end the protests and maybe actually do something about the issues influencing them , but to be sure their main concern is massive profit . To be continued......
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-anthem-policy-unchanged-after-lengthy-meeting-between-players-owners/
I am SSS so sorry suze. Guess I was a bit too close to homey? Diatribe? I like to think of that more as a happy philippic. Kinda pops, don't it. Philippic. I would take more credit, but I am so sorry. It's your words. I'm just the color commentary, and again, sorry if that word offends you :>) Out of context --- well, sorry once more. There is a space consideration.....
Have a peaceful evening and I am indeed glad, even if at times I disagree, that you are talking the why's versus the what's.
@David T. There are plenty of soldiers who can't say anything because they paid the ultimate price.
I all goes back to the justice system. Different strokes for different folks. Just as it is with those making the laws. Everyone today is offended in one way or the other because of the Justice system in Caesar's world.
Old Gent Denis you are still missing the point.
I'm not going to insult you, you just clearly don't understand the point of it all.
Rickter1, I think it is you who is missing the point. They might have a very just cause, but that doesn't change the fact that what they are doing is disrespectful to the anthem, flag, and country.
Denis, in your OPINION...YOU believe it disrespects the anthem, flag, country. Many people agree with you, but many others do not. Simple as that. As with many many other hot button issues going on in our country, we as a nation are divided as to what is and isn't fill in the blank. And no matter how insistent you or anyone else is on your opinions or how loudly you shout you are right and they are wrong, more than likely you aren't going to change the mind of the opposition.
Tracy "No sport has a bigger decline in TV ratings than NASCAR and that has nothing to do with protests over social issues. So, there may be some other mechanisms at work with respect to sports TV viewership as a whole and too much correlation between declining NFL ratings and the anthem may be assumed where it's not necessarily the case."
Not arguing that specific point, just that actions- be it the protests, or perhaps all the new "grey area" rules (what IS a "catch" these days??? Depends on which referee makes the call, apparently.....), or the prima-donna asinine rockstar behavior (ehem, Odell)... actions have consequences. Odell wants to "posture dog pee" after a touchdown? His consequences are less people wearing his jersey, less people watching the game, and a fine.
But with regards to the NFL specifically, I think it's pretty undeniable the kneeling has made a LARGE PART of the "dent" in the NFL's sinking ratings.
While I think the issues are important, I find the whole to-kneel or not-to-kneel controversy humorous. I mean our VP flies out to a game for the expressed reason of making a show about leaving on the taxpayers dime. I mean he knows they are going to do it and he goes anyway just so he can leave and we can foot the bill for the optics. You just have to see the humor......
Guess it's better than Trump's cabinet member who flew to Alaska for a steak dinner. Gotta love this guy.
I mean no one is congratulating our kneeling football players in getting more Americans to stand and salute the flag than ever before. The freakin military should be giving them medals of valor. You just have to see the humor.....
I mean Kaepernick didn’t trample the flag, he didn't spit on it, he didn't burn the Flag. All he wants to do is honor the flag by showing that it does not cover all Americans equally. He wants to salute it's real meaning of liberty and justice for all which he sees police brutality as destroying.
I don't like mixing religion and politics. But as Christians, I think we need to start putting things in proper order. Since when do Christians put country above everything. When will patriotism ever replace family, community, and brotherhood except in the time of the tyrant? Since when is a slight against our country a betrayal of American ideals. I say it's time for Christians to stop putting country above that which we believe as Christians. I say it's not only time for us to say, we can take it. But also time to say, we can solve it.
Today it seems even a simple smuge against a US symbol represents an act of betrayal. I mean America is a great place. We do many good things in good ways. We do big things in big ways. We also are not perfect. Since when has pointing out imperfections been more about the method than the message? As Christians shouldn't we be focusing on helping others versus blind nationalistic idolatry to a piece of clothe and a song? Instead, let's focus on the cross and ask ourselves ---- "In all of this, would Jesus talk about patriotism or police brutality?"
That's why, even with the disagreements, the jibs n jabs, the two sides third-party armchair analysis, I was heartened to see this thread turn on topic versus continuing down the rat hole of what they did, are doing, and what that act means to patriotism. In the scheme of things, I think it means far less than even one American who feels they are getting less than equal justice and liberty, under the law.
We have big problems in America. It's time to work together to get going again.
the flag represents freedom for the patriot and the protester who are one and the same.
just coach @just coach, it represents freedom, but by no stretch of the imagination are patriot and protester one and the same.
Merriam Webster: Definition of patriot
:one who loves his or her country and supports its authority and interests.
Kinda funny n sad at the same time... The media makes a giant issue about this by publicizing it!! If a bunch of overpaid crybabies can’t show respect to a country that has been very good to them they should leave!!! Go make a living playing football in Iraq or one of those amazing countries.. If they want to protest and bring awareness to causes they believe in do it on their own time!!!!!! JJ Watt used his celebrity for a great cause.. Mabey some of these other victims/ crybabies should follow his lead!!!!!!!!!!
Me. Tone The kneeling is a red herring to divert attention away from what will eventually destroy the NFL. CTE - the majority of it's players are likely brain damaged.
Yeah that's what it is . Black people are being shot by the poe-lice because dem smart cops can see EX-NFL brain damaged players with a glance as well as other black citizens meaning to do them harm before they actually do anything .
How about pocket cameras installed on all police with flash drives that can't be erased that record everything ? I 'm not black , but when working OT on afternoon shift I got pulled over all the time for BS lying excuses like you went over the line , 4 mph over the speed limit with said officer looking furtively in the car for anything incriminating . Those a-hole cops remind me of the retard president who looks for anything to make him popular . When in truth he's just a big fat infected pimple getting ready to pop !
Oh hlposter, your closed mind is hilarious. “I’m right and you’re wrong”. Sure, be childish about this. If you believe people shouldn’t have the right to protest, then that’s your right:.. to be an idiot. If you’re in support of limiting freedom and expression, then you’re not really very American.
Maybe I’ll take a knee at the next Memorial Day parade just for you.
In every one of those videos where a cop shoots someone, it starts with the person not cooperating with the Officer. I have to guess but I would say I haven't seen one video yet where the suspect completely gave up, said nothing , was handcuffed, then shot. Every one starts with suspect arguing , and then resisting arrest by fighting or running away. Some of these should not have been shot I grant, however it would never have gotten that far if the person just cooperated. If they feel their rights are violated, they can always sue later. Now we have created an atmosphere where minorities are encouraged to resist no matter the issue and police are turning a blind eye instead of ending up hurting a law breaker in any way. No wonder the murder rate and assaults are way up. They will continue to increase until Police are allowed to do their jobs and some people learn to live in a civilized society.
No boobala, you’re absolutely wrong. And as an officer, I would think you’d be better informed.
Here’s a video of a black man shot and killed in Walmart for carry a toy gun, a toy that was for sale in that very store, in an open carry state. Shot before he could even react to any instructions that were given....if any were. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BtPt6GrnE6s no officers were charged in the shooting.
Here’s a video of black man shot by an officer during a traffic stop. The cop asks for the guys license. He reaches back in the car for the license and the officer begins firing. He shoots the man while the mans hands are in the air. In this case the officer went to jail.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oYa7Fe-u28Y
And it's not just the shootings (though there are many to be named). What about cases like this? The officer didn't receive any consequence whatsoever.
http://www.theroot.com/jacqueline-craig-leaked-police-body-cam-video-shows-fo-1791644642
I am glad the players are bringing our attention to race relations in America by highlighting alleged targeting and brutality by our police. I am glad HL is talking so openly about it.
I think there is little doubt that America is racially better off than we have been in the past and I think there is little doubt that we have quite a distance to go before we can say "mission accomplished." If you see one side of the spectrum, racial relations are skippy. If you only see the other side, we have not yet begun. And that is the point. Neither is true. Nor is this solely an artifact of poverty; there's more going on.
I understand the fears of the welfare state, anti-discrimination bias, affirmative action overkill, and the like --- and, more often than not, these programs are not the panacea and have been broken over the years. But at the same time, after hundreds of years of systematic destruction of the African American family, culture, religion, education, and society, I can understand the need to lend a helping hand in order to reduce discrimination to tolerable levels. A helping hand. Not a hand out.
Poverty is the root of many evils and it's a major cause of the issues here. But there's more going on, and, of course, it's complex. That is crystal clear from the stats. First off, most not only feel there's something happening here but that it's getting worse: http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/08/29/views-of-racism-as-a-major-problem-increase-sharply-especially-among-democrats/ Sure, perhaps the snowflakes are more sensitive here, but more important --- blacks feel they are unfairly discriminated against and that's no way to live. Worse --- they are right. How would any of us fare going through life with that sitting on your shoulder? Would we take a knee?
Yet, on a thoughtful side, we've certainly come a long way. And in the scheme of things, football players have achieved the American dream at a young age. Anecdotally, in my life I remember in the 60's and 70's remarking on TV coverage of race relations, why is it that African Americans can't speak proper English (at least the "man in the street)." Perhaps it was me. As Ferguson brewed, I noted how well spoken the men and women in the street were, at least on average, especially to what I had experienced in my earlier years. Honestly, I blamed TV black sitcoms and Will Smith but appeared to me that much lingual assimilation had taken place 1865-1970-2014. 150 years......
Here's a more thoughtful and scholarly editorial on my anecdote: https://www.brookings.edu/articles/black-progress-how-far-weve-come-and-how-far-we-have-to-go/
When it comes to our justice system, from legislation to police control to incarceration, it sucks to be black. If you are, you are at a severe disadvantage. Statistically, that's just a fact. And unless you are tin foil enough to believe blacks are inferior in some way, there's something else going on here. "African-Americans make up 12 percent of the U.S. population, but today compose 40 percent of all prison inmates and 42 percent of those sentenced to death." There's something else going on here; it's more than poverty.
http://www.crf-usa.org/brown-v-board-50th-anniversary/the-color-of-justice.html
Now if you don't believe any of this trickles into police work, you could be arrested for smokin something. But not to worry, unless you are black.........
Carry on. Good discussion.
And in each instance of these videos the person or persons are doing something dumb. Who walks around a store with a gun toy or not…. Who dives into their vehicle really fast to get their license…. Why is the woman getting nasty with the cop just because he told her to teach her son not to litter…. The cops in the Dallas area are probably especially edgy after 5 of their own got assassinated by a nut. People need to learn how to act and you’ll see far less of these incidents.
OMG Metsman I know you are not going to try to justify this.....you know what why waste the energy....carry on.
Some of you are truly unbelievable
Have anyone here actually had a police officer draw a gun on them? I have... because I made the stupid mistake of opening my car door during a traffic stop. Totally stupid on my part, but I can tell you when the cop yelled "Put your hands where I can see them!!!" I did just that. I followed directions, I apologized for being stupid, and things ended well for me. I was a 22 year old white girl.
Jesse341 
PBM I was playing with a pellet gun at the Stroudsburg Walmart when I was 19 and got kicked out. That's an open carry state. You're not supposed to be handling them without an employee present.
police training needs to be revamped, if a cop orders someone to get their license , they ought to be prepared for them reaching into their car or glove box for it.
if a cop ask you for your license and it's in your gym bag or glove box, tell the cop first, it's in my car, i have to go in and get it, then wait for the cop to say ok go get it.
simple training on both sides will go a long way to saving lives here.
that walmart story bothers me to no end, the panicked inaccurate call to 911 set up the aggressive police response, it was a toy gun that walmart sells that was taken off the shelf, many times toys are already out of the box, not sure who took the toy bb gun out of it's original packaging, but in any case a lawful order by an armed cop to put down the weapon should be be immediately obeyed, right or wrong, the dynamics of that situation requires the citizen to be wary of the consequences of any delay in following instructions, cops say they told him to put it down, why argue with that at that particular moment? one has to realize and be aware of the immediate potential for catastrophic consequences in that situation.
there are too many of these events in modern day america, cops need better training and it needs to be reviewed on a yearly basis. citizens have to know that a cop still has the individual right to defend his/her own life in these charged situations, and act with deference.
BD....if you watch the actual security footage from the Walmart shooting, you’ll see that the victim never even reacts to Police orders. It seems most likely that orders were not given, or were given an instant before shots were fired.
By the way, you can also watch youtube videos of white guys strolling through Walmart with actual loaded AR rifles, excericising their rights in this open carry state. Amazingly, none of them were shot.
Suze, do you even think about these things before you post them? It’s so clearly, mind numbingly, impossible for what you posted to be true, that I don’t no how you could have posted it. Was it laziness or ignorance? A black person has a 97% chance to be killed by another black person? That’s beyond absurd.
I agree that many of these folks are less than compliant with police which seems like a stupid thing to me. I agree, it's stupid for anyone to walk around in public with a gun at any time. I mean all those good guys in the Dallas shooting running around the active-shooter streets with their long guns just slowed police down and put everyone at a higher risk of a tragic mistake Then again, if my really-hard-to-hide race stood at 15% in the country but 40% of those incarcerated in the country's jails and almost half of those waiting on death row, I might say WTF...... I mean what do you feel when you have been taught all your life not to run because it's dangerous.....anywhere. This stuff must weigh you down. I know my odds are so much better than that and I still was known to rouse a few rabbles during the early 70's even causing a gun show or two, a billy club bump, and some very uncomfortable rides in government vehicles. But I didn't care; I knew the police weren't going to fire. Just knew it in my DNA.
I think it's way different when you live with this stuff everyday, everywhere, at all times, no matter how you acquit and comport yourself. I think the same holds true today as in the 60's --- perhaps less risk, but still......... grab a new upscale car, Mercedes or better, be black, put on some casual clothes, and drive across America. Can you make the journey without seeing any racism. Sadly, I think the answer is still no. You are not as free as I am.
"A black person has a 97% chance to be killed by another black person?"
Actually you have to say so what? I mean what's the percentage of a white dude being killed by another white dude.
About 5 points of difference between the races on this one Suze, but you knew that I bet.
Now, what's the chance of police mishandling a black arrest versus a white arrest. Now there's a difference that will bring you to your knees.........
Yes, Gadfly, I do. I believe someone else also stated that black on black crime was out of control. Maybe not in Hackettstown but Chicago? Theses protests are nonsense. Like I said initially, let them go into their communities and work with young men and women and set positive examples. If they had done this kneeling one time fine but it's a load of bs and posturing. I know I'm wasting my time on you but the truth is the truth.
Well, then I guess African Americans don’t have to worry about heart disease, cancer, diabetes, car accidents, or really anything but other African Americans. According to you they make up less 3% of African American deaths.
Gadfly, why don't you do some research for yourself if you don't believe me? Plenty of articles on line. You don't want to take my word for it, fine. Remain uninformed. But I just did a very quick Google search and found several articles. Google "black on black crime statistics ". Very simple.
just shaking my head - perhaps some need to be reincarnated as a person of a different race- a little reality testing perhaps??
some bigotry - definitely
some hate - more than enough I'm afraid
so just smh
4catmom And my point is proven by violence in Chicago. Maybe there's a reason cops are edgy around black men. They kill each other in droves. You want real change then they need to clean up their communities. Kneeling during an anthem just divides people.
yeah 4cat, you're the only white person with any empathy or understanding, nobody else has a clue, and i guess you're the only white person who is not a racist as well, all others are guilty as assumed.
wow!
Oh, 4cat you keep shaking that head in your very gated community. LOL. Hypocrite much?
4catmom - I've always said I wish more people have had the experience of living in a third world country where they were the minority. People staring at you everywhere you go, looking at what groceries you buy, becoming a spectator sport.
GC Gadfly, are you REALLY trying to defend the male that was walking around a store with a gun (toy or not doesn't change the stupidity of this guy)
Did you listen to the 911 call?
The store people told 911 that the male was walking around the store pointing the gun at people.
From the news voice "Police were dispatched to the store thinking they were headed to a active shooter situation"
Seems to me like you only want to listen to what you think happened, when in reality, with the way things are today, anyone would have gotten shot in this situation.
You do dumb stuff around cops and you get shot.....would happen to anyone! Why does every one of these occurrences have to be about race, and every single video I am told to watch within 5 seconds I can point out what the suspect did that got them shot?
just shaking my head - perhaps some need to be reincarnated as a person of a different race- a little reality testing perhaps??
some bigotry - definitely
some hate - more than enough I'm afraid
so just smh
You will get attacked for this post...but it is spot on 4catmom
Oops...I took to long to respond....seems they already started attacking you
Yup, holding a toy, in a sell that sells that toy, should get you shot.....when even if the gun were real, he would be allowed to carry it. Yup Darrin, makes sense to me. Smh
First off a toy gun is easy to spot. A pellet gun, which I believe is what he had, not so easy.
So Darrin a cop pulls up...tells the guy to get his license...the guy goes to get his license...the cops shoots him 8 f'n times??????
Somebody said he went to get his license too fast wtf? These are supposed to be trained police officers. So what is the exact mph to get your wallet? He followed the order the cop gave him and for that he gets killed.
Of course...again....no weapon in the vehicle.
The fact that some of you can watch something like that and justify it is horrifying...
He’s another good one.....
Th eofficer is only facing consequences bc of the video.
http://nypost.com/2017/08/29/cop-who-violently-beat-man-in-traffic-stop-had-past-complaints/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daVhasi95c4
skip to 2:58...
This was not a toy gun in a Walmart...yet they don't automatically shoot these people...wonder why
There are more guns out there than there are people in this country.
I can't blame the Police for being a little "nervous".
Too many guns.
Untrained owners.
Recipe for disaster.
Stymie Are you kidding me gadfly... the woman is yelling "listen to them".... He's resisting. Some of you need to wake up. All he had to do was let the officer cuff him and if he felt his rights were trampled on, he could have filed a complaint later, you know what most of us would do in a situation like that....
Gadfly,
"Toy" guns legally have to be marked with a ORANGE tip, any store selling a TOY gun would have a orange tip.....no orange tip seen here proving it was not a TOY but instead a BB gun or pellet gun, which can injure people and should not be treated or handled like a toy (walking around a store swinging it around)
Secondly Rickster, I did not watch the second video, nor did I try to justify it because the cop was charged for his actions....correct????? Where is the argument?
"This was not a toy gun in a Walmart...yet they don't automatically shoot these people...wonder why"
Because there was not a 911 call detailing the person as pointing the gun at people....leading the cops to believe they had a active shooter?????
Also the guy is clearly not pointing the gun at anyone....he also listens to the cop, places the weapon down, and sits down
Maybe...just maybe that could be it?
"yeah 4cat, you're the only white person with any empathy or understanding, nobody else has a clue, and i guess you're the only white person who is not a racist as well, all others are guilty as assumed.
wow!"
BD - how on earth did you get THAT from 4cat's post? Dramatic much? She specifically said "some". Would you not agree that some people here need more empathy?
Metsman, I mean I get the concern that there are trigger happy cops, cops that are on edge, etc, heck there certainly is also bad cops, just like there are bad people.....but most examples given, and it seems like 90% of the cases out there are trying to be lumped into this motive, meanwhile they have true cause, and obvious affects.
The cases that I see that are unwarranted, the cop was charged for their actions, so I am not seeing the argument here.
I am sorry, but I just cannot get on board with this
also, as factual info on my post a bout orange tips on TOY guns:
"Laws. In the United States, federal law and regulations indicate that all airsoft guns transported or imported into the country must have a 6mm-wide blaze orange tip or a blaze orange stripe 1-inch (2.54 centimeters) thick on both sides of the barrel."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toy_weapon
Although these athletes are kneeling peacefully to raise awareness about police brutality, I understand if you have not been subject to something, you don't think it is real.
Easy for some to miss what is right in front of them when internally that is what they want to see.
But what I do know about life is that we will all face something, and when it is your turn it will become real to you.
Maybe next the police will start raping white women at an alarming rate. I wonder how some would feel if/when that started happening.
Or maybe LGBT?
Of course hopefully these things never happen but in America we have the right to protest social injustice...I understand when you are or have not experienced these things then it doesn't make sense....etc the thinking "these people deserve what is happening to them".
Millions opposed the civil rights movement too...and there are still people to this day (see KKK) that believe black people should still be slaves, not be able to vote and are somehow inferior because of the color of our skin. Racism is real, some use it as a crutch as to why they are not where they want to be in life...which I disagree with but that's just my opinion. Others are trying to get people of all colors to come together and open their eyes as to what is happening.
I personally do well for myself, a white man signs my checks, I love my white friends, I strongly dislike white blindness. Again, just an opinion from someone who knows how it REALLY is and has lived through it...
So far
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_Klux_Klan
5,000-8,000 members of the Klan wouldn't even half fill Madison Square Garden. They're a tiny fraction of the population. They're used to be up to 6 million members in the 1920's! Racism is not what it was. Lets be real.
BTW I forgot who said it earlier but although we disagree, at least the discussion is happening here and across the world.
Opinions may not change but at least it's not being hidden in the dark.
Kaepernick is already a multi-millionaire and a hero to many...he will be fine. What he did took amazing courage, and I applaud him for standing up to this problem by kneeling, while under I'm sure is immense scrutiny.
Wearing pig socks and all that crossed the line for me personally...why antagonize a police force that we need to protect us all. it sends the wrong message that black people think all cops are bad, when that is simply not the case for an overwhelming majority of us.
And it's funny...since he started this I actually think progress has been made...albeit small
"Racism is not what it was. Lets be real."
So, what's your point here? That we shouldn't strive for further improvement?
Meanwhile 21 police officers were killed in ambush style attacks in 2016, but there is no public or media outrage for them or their families. Police officers still stand and salute the flag of a country that has a media, and large sections of the public who demonize them.
When the New Orleans Saints held a moment of silence for Marcus McNeil a Cop who was fatally shot, a large part of the team took a knee during the moment of silence before the anthem. Marcus MCNeill was black, but that doesn't matter because he was a cop. When the Jaguars played in in England, they took a knee for the anthem, but stood for God Save the Queen! It's no coincidence that their last home game was the lowest attended since 2009. You can argue back and forth about crime, and post video's nothing changes the fact these players have no respect for the country, or those that have given their lives to protect this country home and abroad.
So that gives him the right to disrespect his country? You liberals are something else. And you wonder why Trump got elected...
If I earned his money, I would have paid that much in taxes too. But thanks Captain Obvious, aka ianimal, and unlike Kapernick I wouldn't be grandstanding and crying if I lost my career after walking out on my job which I was not good at anyway.
No, the Constitution gives him that right. Did you sleep through Civics class? Just cutting through the BS and getting to the crux of it. Does it put Kevlar on the back of a soldier or food in the mouths of his children when your dumb ass stands up in your living room before the Mets lose another game? No. Whether or not you think he's disrespectful, he has done WAY more for our military than you ever will. Admit it.
Just because you have a right to disrespect it doesn't make it morally right. So you sir are the dumbass...
Paying more in taxes because he earns more doesn't mean he supports them. There's quite a difference.
Genius, so now patriotism is defined by who pays the most compulsory taxes to avoid going to jail. If I hit the lottery tonight I'll instantly become a true patriot.
yes, metsman, if you continually say "disrespect" then it begs the question and speaks to your blinders - the right to peacefully protest is fundamentally American, patriotic and respectful.... many police and armed forces individuals have concurred - that they fight, protect, the right to protest - Are you really arguing for the government to limit our individual rights? Or is it that YOU want to be the one to decide which protest/perspective is allowed? Well..... that is NOT respectful of the fundamentals of this country.
rleaf I didn't say he was a patriot; I said he's done more to "support the troops" in a literal and tangible way than all of you put together. The fact that you are all too stupid to realize that his protests have absolutely nothing to do with disrespecting the military is an entirely different story altogether.
What do you expect from a Pirates fan. That 2 decades without a playoff appearance dulled his senses. LOL
No he's just disrespecting police by wearing pig socks and calling them slave labor enforcers. That's ok though...
Because someone is not an active Klan member makes racism any less of an issue? Hey, here's the thing. White people do not get to decide for black people if racism is a "thing" or still exists. Just because someone is not an active member of the KKK does not mean, in any way, that they are not racist or at the very least, biased in some way. Just look at all our great neighbors on this thread! And, as a white woman married to a black man with children of color, you would be SHOCKED as to what racist crap people I have worked with OR just people on the street have said to me as a "fellow white person" not knowing my family dynamic.
What about the nasty things you say disrespecting hard working child protective services workers? Is that ok?
@rleaf, "the right to peacefully protest is fundamentally American, patriotic and respectful." So by that logic the westboro baptist church members who protest soldier's funerals, and hold up signs saying God hates fags are patriotic, and respectful.
You like so many others confuse people who exercise their right to free speech with patriotism. Yes you can say what you want, burn the flag, hold a Nazi rally. Using your right of free speech does NOT make you patriotic!
ianimal the 39% of veterans cited earlier in the poll who will boycott games because of this disgusting display might take issue with your point that it has nothing to do with the military.
So, 61% of them "won't" boycott games? I'd say that's a pretty solid majority. Kind of lines up with Trump's approval/disapproval rating, oddly enough.
Denis, you do know that people that hang God hates fags signs are not peacefully protesting right...
That's inciting a riot..
You don't understand that?
"What about the nasty things you say disrespecting hard working child protective services workers? Is that ok?"
Hard working at pushing their liberal agenda on people who don't deserve to deal with them.
Look at the poll again, that's those who will boycott. Only 26% support the their exercising their right to protest this way. The public at large is making it very clear in ratings, and attendance how they feel.
That's not true, Rickter. One can only incite a riot if that riot actually occurs or there is a clear and present danger of a riot occurring. I don't think anything of the sort has ever happened at a WBC rally. Just because a message is filled with hate, that doesn't make the demonstration "non-peaceful", which I know is somewhat counterintuitive.
@rickter sorry that's free speech, disgusting but free speech. I could claim many of the slogans shouted at BLM rallies are inciting a riot. You don't get to cherry pick.
Denis, NASCAR has been very vocal about their opposition to the anthem protests and their ratings and attendance are also way down. So, like I said before, I'm not sure the correlation is there.
I know zero about NASCAR, so I have no idea why their ratings might be down. I think the NFL knows there is a correlation, that's why Goodell is flip flopping like a fish out of water on a daily basis.
Wait. I'm still stuck on Iman being a liberal.....that means I must be so far left that I am lapping you Trumpers. Holy Sufferin Snowflake Batman.
I just gotta say. "Around here if you don't join them, lock, stock, and flippin cop-killing gun barrell, then you're a liberal."
Denis; there's a yuge uproar over cop deaths across the land and right here on HL. It's called common sense gun control. Heh, heh.
However you spell it, NFL commiss or whatever Goodall got it right today; we support standing and salutes. Let's work the issues with the players in the community. You know I was working late with his team at the firm when he got the nod for the job. They were all so happy. New opening :-) Sorry, tangent....
We should do the same as the NFL guy said. Matter of fact, I committ to not shooting any minorities today. Its a start.
Too soon for jumping the shark? Unpatriotic to joke about? Did I forget to call names?
Still a bad example Denis....in no way, shape or form is a player silently kneeling during the anthem inciting anything...
has nothing to do with BLM slogans or anti gay slogans.
KKK members had the constitutional right to have their rally...and they did..
But again, what they are protesting should be the focus here.
Nobody likes to see Roger the Dodger squirm more than I do, but I don't think they "know" any more than we do. They just see a slight downward trend (from two years ago where popularity was at an all-time high and probably unsustainable) and the media volume surrounding the anthem is definitely high.
The drop in ratings may actually be due to the Daily Fantasy sites like Fanduel and Draft Kings being outlawed in states all over the country. The apex of those sites corresponds to the all-time high in NFL popularity. The people who were interested in watching only for gambling purposes may have stopped watching.
ianimal - you think you know it all and always are holier than thou on all threads. Get over yourself. You are wrong. Just because Kapernick paid taxes on an income he and many athletes do not deserve does not mean he supports the troops as his kneeling is anti-American and nothing you say will convince me otherwise.
You are showing in your statements you are not for President Trump and that is your right but he is our President and I applaud him for taking the stand he took against what players like Kapernick are doing.
I took Civics class and have taught Civics as a teacher and a professor so you do not need to lecture. me. You should know how arrogant you come off in this thread and all the threads like you are a know it all and it really makes you look bad.
http://nypost.com/2017/09/26/all-that-kneeling-ignores-the-real-cause-of-soaring-black-homicides/
Says enough for me...
You have the nerve to say that some of your fellow Americans don't deserve their salaries and you call ME arrogant? LOL... typical.
@Rickter, not a bad example, you just don't like. All my comments were about disrespect shown by the players, you were the only who brought up inciting anything. I never claimed they were inciting anything. You choose to focus on what they are protesting, as I said before it they choose to do it in a way that disrespects our country, soldiers, and police, I'm not listening to the message from them.
"You don't get to cherry pick." Exactly Denis - YOU don't get to cherry pick - or decide which peaceful protest is allowable ...
Holier than thou? Man, you are really a euro socialist snowflake now. What's next, breakfast with Chelsey :>) I say you hit an interesting point with the tax thing; folks just missed it in lieu of you not being a patriot :>) Funny thing, he supports the troops in this manner more than Trump, heh, heh.
Metsman concludes "Says enough for me..." based on a Trump-buddy-owned, in his back pocket NYPost story. Probably Trump's idea to write just keep us stirred up. Because really, isn't that what this is all about. Not talking about his collusion with Russia, how bad they hacked us, how much his team is ripping us off, and why cry for bankrupt Puerto Rico? (I mean, Trump never went bankrupt and then got hit by two hurricanes). As I was reading Met's piece, obviously this is op/ed, but what I hate worse than a lack of sourcing and support is fake sourcing and fake conclusions without support. Have to say, we at HL are better than this....
So I grabbed one of Met's factual sound bites based on that. From the article, try "Four studies came out in 2016 alone rebutting the charge that police shootings are racially biased. If there is a bias in police shootings, it works in favor of blacks and against whites. That truth has not stopped the ongoing demonization of the police — including, now, by many of the country’s ignorant professional athletes."
Hmmm. Sounds factual.....
First warning: that's a real mouthful based on no authors, no titles, no accreditation. Remember there is NO federal database for this stuff so the studies are probably not based on primary research.
Second warning: wait, did all four studies reach those conclusions?
Whatever, lets take them at their word and suggest that the Hackettstown Life QM, Question of the Moment is the question Mets just answered with this wealth of knowledge
QM: are police racially biased in America?
Come on, join in. Take a shot at answering that, only that. Here's the fun. There is little, in any, primary research answering just that question. That means there's a lot of fodder out there.
I kind of ambushed Mets, taking just a piece of his link, but let's just say that's the first shot at saying, no --- they are not racially biased. So we have the NYPost answer supported as such. But Mets you get the Mulligan if you want to search on for a better shot. (of course it's HL, who doesn't get a million mulligans until the mods give a time out.... :>) uh, feel one coming :<(
Here's my shot; think it's a 12 gauge birdshot.
QM: are police racially biased in America? You betcha. But not out of meanness, it's a failure to of training. Well Mets, I'll see your 4 2016 studies, anonymous and un-named as it is and raise you 14 more, all named, sourced and linked. That's right, here's 18 studies confirming my answer. The conclusion is that there is racial bias not compensating for dangerous areas or conditions. Two of the studies, one from 2016, found no bias.
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/07/data-police-racial-bias
Any takers?
I'll bite on #1 in that article SD. Perhaps they get shot more because a higher percentage of their population doesn't know how to behave. Let's not act like the cream of the crop is getting shot.
@rleaf, "You don't get to cherry pick." Exactly Denis - YOU don't get to cherry pick - or decide which peaceful protest is allowable .
Where on this thread did I say it's not allowable??? Point went right over your head. I said it's disrespectful multiple times. I'm not cherry picking, all the examples I cited are protests that in my mind are disrespectful, some outrageously so, but protected by the first amendment. Exercising that right doesn't automatically make make you a patriot by any stretch of the imagination.
I myself find it comical that tRUMP is so much more " outraged" by NFL players kneeling on the sidelines during pregame ceremonies then he is by skin head mobs marching with tiki torches mimicking Nazi marches circa 1939.
Maybe comical is the wrong word- predictable is probably more appropriate.
Playing his base like a Stradivarius.
Thank you rleaf, an apology for a accidental misrepresentation is a very rare thing to see on HL forum.
Stymie, the fact that you think Trump's base agrees with skin head mobs shows how clueless you are. I don't know how many times the guy has to denounce these people before people like you realize he isn't for them. Clean the crap out of your ears.
I always wondered why articles like this never came up during the election.
The "act of God."
The irony of how God would affect one side, but not the other, or, ok, both sides but only if the other mortal had a "force majeure" clause in their contract.
Sanctimonious bull all around.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/05/business/05norris.html
Dodgeball "Stymie, the fact that you think Trump's base agrees with skin head mobs shows how clueless you are. I don't know how many times the guy has to denounce these people before people like you realize he isn't for them. Clean the crap out of your ears."
I agree, Stymie has it backwards if you look at it wrongheaded like Metsman. It's not that Trump agrees with Skinheads, Mets, it's just that Skinheads agree with Trump. After that, he just blows the dog whistle like he does for his other base members while sporadically quasi-condemning them. But always the code words. But Mets, Stymie correctly noted Trump's weird reaction to Charlotte. It is not often that a US President would say: "“We condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence on many sides. On many sides.” That's not exactly denouncing skinheads now is it.
I mean he can say Islamic Terrorist, he railed against anyone who didn't say those words. Why does he have a problem calling out these domestic jerks. It's call White Supremacy Don, and it sucks. So say it instead of saying "on many sides...." White Supremacy is not a side Don, it sucks worse than taking a knee.
But now we have Trump's Benghazi moment where he forgot to tell us we went to war in Niger. Where is Niger and are they planning to attack America? Of course, when you blow the call to the parents of the fallen, it might help if it wasn't to the one black guy on the doomed team if you don't like those racist optics.
Still waiting for that yuge Trump plan to reclaim the cities and save all the folks there. Still waiting.....
How's that infrastructure.....like the new airports and bus terminals?
Lol CBGB. I didn't see that one, but the first two are regularly ignored. Here's a reminder:
1: Be Nice.
2: You must not abuse, harass, threaten, impersonate or intimidate other users.
.....and his taxes.
Pathological liar in chief.
Disgrace to the office
Embarrassment to the country.
( except metsman)
Oh I'm sorry SD, he told it how it was at Charlottesville and that isn't acceptable to leftists because their leftist group Antifa got linked to the violence too. It takes two to tango.
Stymie you want to know what's an embarrassment to this country.... People like you who think it's ok to call half the country racists.
50%
Who said that and what does that number represent?
Sounds like you have the same difficulty with the truth as YOUR shythook lying head of state.
COOLAID- does it taste good???
Still say coward, draft dodger in chief will resign before the end of "its" term.
That would be just before the trial.
it was obama who deployed the troops in Niger after the schoolgirls were kidnapped, lord only knows what the mission statement is now, i sure don't, doubt if anyone other than the warhawk McCain really knows why we are there and what we are doing,
oh, wait a min . . . . let's get back on track . . stand for the anthem, stand for the flag, let's stand and work together for a better america.
It took a while for this to turn into a let's blame Trump for all of our ills. People must have been to occupied working on those shovel ready jobs.
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