I am not political- but I know many on here are.

So- this should be interesting to many of you. Please keep the conversation civil. :)

Very interesting, thanks for the link.

Yankeefan Yankeefan
Apr '17

Steve balmer thing - nice presentation - just pisses me off entirely how much taxes are

skippy skippy
Apr '17

And yet Our tax burden is relatively low compared to many other nations. Probably too low. I watched an interesting Frontline about the national debt and budget surpluses / deficits since Reagan. Of particular interest is how the three main entitlements (SS, medicare, medicaid) are going to swamp the boat entirely in just a few years, and nobody wants to address the problem....mainly because, imo, most Americans are a bit dull. They don't seem to understand that we either need to cut entitlements, raise taxes, or both if we have any chance of righting the ship. But nobody wants higher taxes, and nobody wants cuts to entitlements. Politicians know attempting either is to risk political suicide so it never happens. So we just borrow more and more.

Eperot Eperot
Apr '17

SS is NOT an entitlement. Its money deducted from our paycheck going into a fund to be paid at a later time. Welfare, now that's an entitlement. Receiving money from taxes that the person never put in. Just making a distinction.

boobalaa boobalaa
Apr '17

I would agree with you if it was capped to the amount paid in - but it's not. Fact is that the majority of people that are paying in now will never be able to collect a dime from the program since it's not sustainable. The current tax rate for social security is 6.2% for the employer and 6.2% for the employee, or 12.4% total. The current rate for Medicare is 1.45% for the employer and 1.45% for the employee, or 2.9% total. So my employer and I are paying 15% of my wages into a program I'm never going to see.

skippy skippy
Apr '17

Do you really think that what you put into SS equals what you'll withdraw?

Yankeefan Yankeefan
Apr '17

I get next to nothing out of anything the government forcibly takes from me.

I have no children. I have never taken a cent in any form of 'assistance'.

Never needed to call the police, fire department, ambulance, etc.

The roads are in poor shape everywhere I go.

Have I ever been robbed? No. So I guess police presence does something.

I get it- I served in the U.S. Army as a medic. I never went to war- but I understand having to have a ready force in case we were needed. You guys payed for me during that time.

Note- I got paid very little while in, receive no money after I got out, and will readily argue that I paid my price in suffering, pain, wear and tear on my body. The pay scale for the vast majority of the military is a joke. When I joined in 1996 I was paid $404.55 a week, which as you can imagine was well over 40 hours of work. When I left in 2000 I was paid $604.65 a week. If anyone thinks that was living high on the hog- go sign up. By comparison teachers, cops, and those in political positions are raping the system.

Lets take a step back- "Have I ever been robbed? No. So I guess police presence does something."

Have I ever been stopped and falsely accused and ticketed of a 'crime' by police that has cost me money and time? Yes. So, I guess in a way I have been robbed. Are they robbing Paul to pay Peter? That is where I claim a distinct and horrible difference.

None of you have ever been forcibly robbed by a soldier. But police routinely rob people every day, every town, every county, every state, the entire country. As does almost every other tax payer paid 'service'.

I'd really like someone to tell me what my tax dollars go for.

Example- I pay a registration fee every year on all my vehicles? Why? The registration data hasn't changed. Same car, same me, same house. Theft.

Renew my drivers license fee. Why? I am not being retested, I am using no resources- same me, same everything. In fact- I have had the same picture on my license for at least the last 10 years. Theft.

Try to justify and say I need to pay so they can pay THEIR bills and keep THEIR doors open? Not my problem.

Just because they 'need' more spending doesn't mean I need to pay more. If you disagree you are basically saying they can grow in size and/or compensation to whatever they want- regardless of the true individual cost or return on 'investment'. If I am not costing them money, taking their time, using their resources- I should not incur cost or need to pay.

I'd really REALLY like to know what I get out of my real estate taxes. I've 'owned' my home for 9 years. Over 90,000 in tax. No kids. Please tell me why? Theft.

'Owned' is in '_' because it is a falsehood. When I pay off the 30 year mortgage I won't own the house. What will taxes be by then? 20k? 25k? Regardless- if I don't pay them- they will kick me out and if I don't leave they will forcibly remove me with guns.

Disclaimer- when I started this thread and said I am not political, by that I meant that I am not one to claim affiliation with any political party, sports team, religion, etc. I feel that one should not attach themselves to a group, when there are pieces of many individual groups. My brother in law- he loves the Giants, hates the Cowboys- but I say- that guy you are rooting for on the Giants- wasn't he a Cowboy last year? Get my meaning?

To say, quote- "mainly because, imo, most Americans are a bit dull. They don't seem to understand that we either need to cut entitlements, raise taxes, or both if we have any chance of righting the ship."

We do NOT need to raise taxes. Our money is forcibly taken from us every day- for countless reasons that defy logic, reason and justification.

Literally we just accept it because everyone else does and that is 'just the way it is'.

Go talk to a young kid- tell them that when you grow up, between all the taxes and fees you will need to give 30-40%+ of what you WORK FOR to other people. Tell them you won't have a choice, and no, you don't get to ask or have a say in what they do with it. Anyone who argues else-wise is drinking the kool-aid. Yes we get to vote. Do you really think that matters? Amusing.

Yup had a couple drinks prepost. :)

Taxation isn't theft it's extortion. Theft implies taking something through stealth and sneakery. Extortion is under threat of force.

skippy skippy
Apr '17

Josh, I feel you, man. No kids here either so I'm paying most of my property taxes for schools that I will never use...BUT, education is a positive thing and it's all part of the social contract. Should schools be funded differently? Perhaps, but that's another tread.

As for my statement about the need to either raise taxes or cut entitlements as a means for attaining long term sustainability (read: reduce borrowing money from other countries) you can't really argue with it. You either have to do one, the other, or both. We as a people seem to want it all without paying for it...and right now we don't pay that much versus the drain we put on our retirement and medical systems. Something has to give. I'm not injecting politics into it, just a numbers game.

eperot eperot
Apr '17

I disagree on your oversimplified concept that all our tax dollars come down either to a raise or cut entitlement when an extreme amount is simply wasted. We don't want it all without paying for it. We want what we pay to go to 'IT' that we use, and that it is intended for. The lack of accountability is mind boggling.

The entire system is broken and corrupt. Hospitals, schools, politics, cops, paving the road costs, etc...

So- the link above, although clunky in my opinion- shows hard numbers of where our money actually goes.

Josh, I'm not going to argue that there is a ton of are correct about that. But you are also oversimplifying it if you don't believe that the funds for what is promised just aren't there, even if we did root out all corruption.

Anyway, I don't want to argue with a fellow veedub guy :)

eperot eperot
Apr '17

Social Security has been robbed by the government since L.B.J to balance budget deficits ...They tell us there is no money, yet, no one demands to know where the monies have gone !

We are robbed every day .

Steven Steven
Apr '17

I agree that taxation is in need of overhaul. And aside from any general humanity or other-directed argument, people need to be less simplistic, less reactive, in order to work together toward any overhaul. But... we see extremes again, truly oversimplification - So very easy to look only at yourself - only at the direct deductions/contributions to your pocket. Would you not educate children? Education having indirect and direct impact on the world around you....You don't have children, but people all around you, providing services you use, inventing/creating things, healing, making, growing things - people that are part of your daily existence - they were children and were educated and you benefit.... Would you not have a fire department, police department, roads and infrastructure? Would you not have a healthcare system in place should you need it? Would you not have any government? Would you determine that others should not have the same?

pmnsk pmnsk
Apr '17

Waking up an revisiting this post makes me wonder why I even wrote all that. I mean besides the beer. ;)

We can't win no matter what we do, how we feel- so it pains me to think about it, and trust me I normally try not to.

I hope everyone has a wonderful enjoyable day today. Hopefully the sun will come out, and it should be warm.

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