President Trump
Can anyone else imagine the change that's going to happen? Republican house, Senate, and president. With trump as lotus the whole world is in for a massive and positive outcome.
Forcefed4door 
Pyc Very appropriate:
Lotus: "a legendary plant whose fruit induces a dreamy forgetfulness and an unwillingness to depart."
strangerdanger The people have spoken. Sick and tired of getting screwed by the elite class in DC. Being told what to do and what to buy. Beyond ecstatic that Hillary was defeated and hopefully her and bill disappear permanently. Hopefully some real "change" happens and start with the Obamacare disaster. He will shake things up and there will be chaos but this sends the big middle finger to DC!
LJRubi well these celebs will be leaving the country as they promised right?
Lena Dunham, Barbara Streisand, Rosie O’Donnell, Cher, Eddie Griffin, Samuel L. Jackson, John Stewart, Omari Hardwick, Whoopie Goldburg, Al Sharpton, Raven-Symone, Jennifer Lawrence, Barry, Diller, Miley Cyrus, George Lopez, Chelsea Handler, Jenny Slate, Neve Campbell, Zosia Mamet, Chloe Sevigny, Natasha Lyonne, Elisabeth Moss, Spike Lee, Kathryn Hahn, Lily Depp, Gabrielle Union, Matt Damon, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Amy Schumer, Will.I.Am, Bryan Cranston, Lena Dunham, Amy Schumer, Keegan Michael-Key, Ne-Yo
skippy 
MB 
Mariann Cautiously optimistic. I'm wondering if he'll STILL have his own party fighting him, despite holding both houses of Congress....
JeffersonRepub Last night up until 2:30am Trump supporters were called racists, homophobes, and sexists deserving of death by these people.. I hope the door doesn't hit them in the rear on the way out - please leave the flag
Philliesman "Cautiously optimistic. I'm wondering if he'll STILL have his own party fighting him, despite holding both houses of Congress...."
Yes, having to govern can be difficult. Wait til the debt ceiling comes up. Wait til they have to agree on what to replace Obamacare with. Are they going to just cut taxes again without cutting spending, like the republicans did in Bush's first term, thereby growing the deficit greatly for years to come?
jd2 
Old Gent I'd love to see cuts in taxes AND spending.... no clue if they'll accomplish it or not.
What I would like to see more than either tax cuts or spending cuts is a ROBUST ECONOMY. A robust economy will go a long way to not needing to cut taxes or spending as drastically. Sort of a "make-everyone-happy" scenario.... "it's the economy, stupid" could easily have applied to this election. If Obama had been successful in creating a robust economy, Hillary would have gotten elected.
I'm bursting with pride over my fellow Americans coming together to take this Country back! Let's all hope President Trump can get some thing accomplished.
And yes, I hope all of those people named above GTFO! LOL
Calico696 Yes, shun, make uncomfortable, or deport everyone that disagrees with you. LOL indeed.
I wonder how long before the pallets of ammo people panic bought start showing up online for super cheap? Damn I am gonna need to get a bigger safe.
Darrin Hillary may never see the inside of a jail cell. But most importantly, Hillary will NEVER sit in the oval office. To me "JUSTICE" has been served not by the courts but by the freedom to choose by the American voter.
auntiel Skippy, I think there will be lots of Democrats paying top dollar for that ammo; hold off on the safe upgrade for now (-;
ianimal Opps, sorry, was doing this for debate thread. Seems like liberal timing is a bit off lately.
OK, well, the people have spoken and the winner declared, congratulations.
Bad day to be a pollster; can't wait to hear that explanation.
Someone here may have said it best by noting all the Trump signs; a lot of folks were really jazzed up for Trump, not as many jazzed for Hillary. Darrin is right; she is not Presidential material, twice proved that she has too much baggage and history.
So, the message to the elite, from the nouveau elite, was accepted by the people. Or at least the electoral college people. And it swept the house as well although it appears Hillary may have won the popular voice so hopefully you folks will remember that as you pound your collective chests, grab some pussy, and declare you are kings of the universe. Looks like a mandate….but not quite. I think just telling folks it’s time to unite, come together, and compromise is disingenuous our recent past --- that message may need a bit more work.
JIT is right; IMO the whole thing hinges on the debt, the thing neither candidate mentioned much. Trump will have to balance spending against debt and his plans have a whole lot of spending increases and revenue reductions that are counter to reducing debt.
The bottom line: 8-years? 4-years? No, you have less than two-years to prove yourself, congratulations and best luck in your endeavors.
Scottso Just thought of this while waiting for HRCs live speech..who's going to pay those exorbitant speaking fees she and Bill demanded ? Any thoughts on that?
Denise Quote from above-Being told what to do and what to buy.
That there is too funny. What then exactly would you call the whole Trump campaign? What exactly was the purpose of all the Trump rallies?
I will say the Trump rallies were the most entertaining thing I have seen on television in a long time.
CBGB The fix was in. It was all rigged just like he said. Maybe the 2A people can fix this, I don't know. President Dump, the new POS.
RAS "Yes, shun, make uncomfortable, or deport everyone that disagrees with you. LOL indeed."
Who said that? You really don't know how to read, but you can write forever. I was talking about the people who said they would leave the Country if Trump won. They can GTFO!
Mark Mc. When you say gtFo, you politely mean voluntarily.
"magnanimity consists in enduring tactlessness with mildness".
"Violence isn’t a proper response to losing an election, and using the law to coerce one’s political enemies isn’t a proper response to winning one."
"In War: Resolution. In Defeat: Defiance. In Victory: Magnanimity. In Peace: Goodwill."
Metsman Metsman --- are you hearing fortune cookies again?
I am sure Churchill and others were trying for that .
Ugh. Waking up to this morning is like watching that oddly scary version of the future in "Back to the Future 2" where Biff is running the show and Marty's mom is Biff's concubine with breast implants.
Lots of you are dancing with joy this morning, and I guess that's your privilege. Party on.
This election was a referendum on many things. Most notably, that Hillary Clinton, while a viable candidate, was potentially the worst possible choice for the Democrats to put up. It was hers to lose. Anyone else would have likely beaten Trump. But more importantly, it was a reawakening of right wing populism. The kind that is redolent of immediacy and short term thinking without taking the long view into focus. Sure, maybe you have given the middle finger to Washington...but at what expense? Only time will tell.
I've always known there is a strong and stubborn anti-progressive, anti-intellectualism that runs deep in this country. It continues to this day with the bulk of the populated, higher educated electorate living coastal, while the rural, less educated center of whitebread America still proves that they have the power to win when they put their collective efforts behind an idea. That the idea is scented with an aroma of nativism, xenophobia and insularity in a global 21st century is no surprise. This is America's Brexit. The similarities are spot on, where urban centers, populated by younger, more diverse and more educated citizens were "trumped" by older, whiter, rural Brits. It's a new world order.
Trump as President? Who knows. Even though the majority of the country did not vote for him, he'll likely see his win and the complete control of all three branches of government by Republicans as a mandate. But here's the catch. He now has to actually deliver on his promises, or else I sincerely hope all those who voted for him will throw him out in four years. And that means he has to build that wall. He has to deport millions of illegal immigrants. He has to prove that he can bring back the kind of manufacturing jobs that are never coming back, because they were lost by a mix of mechanization and cheaper labor outside the United States. He has to overturn the ACA, and replace it with (sic)"health insurance that is better than you ever imagined, so good it's unbelievable". Can he deliver? I don't know. I've underestimated not the strength of the man, but the ignorance of the electorate. It's the same ignorance that allowed Cadillac to fleece the GM faithful by selling the Cimarron, a gussied up Chevy Cavalier made slick with faux luxury. Trump is the Cadillac Cimarron of Politics...all fake gold and glitz. And like GM, I have a feeling Trump's form wrote a check his function can't cash.
I truly hope I'm wrong. I hope the man is able to guide this country into a more robust and better union. The well being of our nation depends on it. But given his policy points which favor a retreat into 1980's era Voo Doo economics and a reversal of socially progressive ideals, it's as difficult for me to see a pathway to that well being as it was difficult for people to see a pathway to 270 for Clinton around 2 AM.
eperot Wow eperot, I never took you for the snobby type ;-)
"I've always known there is a strong and stubborn anti-progressive, anti-intellectualism that runs deep in this country. "
Hmmm, do you consider my posts to be anti-intellectual? I could see you believing they're anti progressive, but I would take great offense at being labeled anti intellectual. The reason I ask is because I consider my views here to be predominately intellectual, especially given that I'm regularly asking my fellow HLians to look beyond what they think they see to that which lays beneath. On the contrary, I would ask who in politics today *is* intellectual? Certainly not Hillary, Obama or even Trump. Progressives in particular tend to ignore the reality of what must happen in order to fulfill their agendas, so IMO progressive and intellectual don't even belong in the same sentence.
And that bit about the uneducated - really? Time for a bit of introspection I'd think...
But the election is over. Can we at least pretend to want to move forward together, as a country?
justintime Oh, trust me, JIT. I'm licking my wounds over here. This was a painful loss. And I'm willing to stand up and give Trump the chance he deserves. The election is over, he won fair and square, I accept it. But that doesn't mean I have to like it, and I don't take anything back about my belief in the relative ignorance of many people in this country. Call me a snob if you want. I've disagreed with you, but at least you can form full sentences and expand your thoughts with the depth and breadth that you do. I respect that. What I'm referring to are the people who can only hang on a catch phrase like "Make America Great Again", and then offer nothing beyond that and the vague feeling that they've been screwed by a system in a way they can't quite put into words...even if it isn't the system but their own life choices that have backed them into a corner. And that applies to both Republicans and Democrats.
tell you what is sad though - $7 BB was spent on this debacle or about $23.34 per person.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/2016-election/campaign-finance/
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/election-2016s-price-tag-6-8-billion/
actually LJRubi, the people did speak - the popular vote was for Clinton by about 210,000.
The ELECTORAL spoke - NOT the people. If it were up to the people Clinton would be President.
vote1 Eperot you have clueless people who vote on both sides. The African American vote is a joke. They just vote Democrat blindly.
I have to say I am incredibly disappointed in the supporters who do not like Trump. Trust me, I get why you are upset and you thought it was a slam dunk win. I went online to find my newsfeed slammed with comments about Trump supporters.
Supposedly anyone who supported Trump for ANY reason is a bigot, racist, rapist supporter and that we want to see little girls being attacked, the list goes on. I was hurt by people I have known since I was a little kid (I am currently 31) making me feel like this horrible human being. I do NOT agree or support the words/actions of Trump on a lot of things, however I looked at the overall picture of what he stood for, how I am tired of politicians, and I just did not personally like anything Hillary Clinton stood for. I also didn't like being made to feel like a horrible human being by Hillary and Elizabeth Warren. Because I am a female (white and educated if that makes a difference at all since it seemed to to analysts...in my mind it doesn't), I am supposed to vote for her? I would LOVE a female president and show the world what we are capable of.
We shall see what happens with Trump, how he handles everything, who he chooses, and how he works with the very Republicans who did not support him. I am just disappointed at the blatant attacks and people who dislike Trump and his supporters think we want to see little girls attacked and that we are bigots, etc.
sunshinenj Metsman, hence this:
"even if it isn't the system but their own life choices that have backed them into a corner. And that applies to both Republicans and Democrats."
'They kilt us but they ain't whupped us yit'
Kaine quoting Faulkner. The values we believe in will continue to drive our behavior and our voices will not be silenced.
yankeefan 
iRun 
SmittI can't stop smiling. And watching the mainstream media with their underwear in knot is icing on the cake.
Ollie The best was watching Van Jones almost cry on CNN. It's ok.... we're not going to die. I'm sure a woman president will be elected one day, but I'm glad it wasn't Hillary.
Van Jones called this outcome a "whitelash"...
Uh, hello! BOTH candidates were white!
I also think Hillary got a smaller percentage of African American votes than did Obama... so was his election simply a "blacklash" against Bush (since they didn't subsequently vote for the candidate in this election that shared Obama's views/policies)?
I guess that's OK, though huh?
There is such a thing as being humble in victory and gracious in defeat. Some of you need to work on your humble......
sumerrain1 "There is such a thing as being humble in victory and gracious in defeat. Some of you need to work on your humble......"
similar to how the Obama supporters were humble in 2008 and then again in 2012?
Joe Friday 
California, Massachusetts and Nevada just legalized recreational marijuana. New Jersey is probably next... once Sgt Schultz shuffles off to the Beltway. Sweeney et al were in Colorado last month looking at it from a regulatory and logistical standpoint. Why bring this up here? To give some Clinton supporters a legitimate reason to want to go on living (-;
Ironic:
Just two days before Election Day, Republican businessman Donald Trump tweeted: "The Electoral College is a disaster for a democracy."
Now it looks like Trump has lost in the popular vote and has won only because of the electoral system.
Did the Bern get more votes than Hillary in Warren county?? (as a write in) Am I looking it up wrong?? If that's so, then there are more Bern supporters in Warren county than Hillary. That's refreshing to know if true.
This is a time when Americans should be united in the expectation and hope that the divisions and mudslinging from both candidates is over, and all Americans, no matter race, religion, gender, or sexual orientation can work together to improve life in America.
Instead, I come here and find continued name calling and gloating from one side, and weeping and warnings of doom from the other half. The division is worse today than two days ago. It's pitiful.
JerryG If this election has one point of light for the Democrats, it's that the Republicans now must give up their claim to electing officials based on the moral high ground. Because you just can't really beat on Bill Clinton anymore when you just brought your own thrice married, cheating, philandering groper of p***y into the white house. And, the new first lady has been in photographed soft core porn. Try explaining that to your daughters.
Sadly, that's about the only point of light.
eperot, I agree with you there... the republicans finally DON'T CARE about the morality (or lack thereof) of their candidate... they finally stooped to the democrat's level of "playing the game" this time.
One point of darkness for Republicans...
Amy Schumer said she was "just joking" that she would move out of the country should Trump win.
That's the least funny joke she's ever told (a hard record to beat).
Iman: as true capitalists and entremanures, we don't need no stinkin laws to make us happy. Heck, nine months from now, some brown-sole shoed clean shaven pencil necked geek will knock, knock, knocking on our doors in the dead of night anyway.
"Listen Iman, ain't no wall that's high,
Ain't no ocean deep, ain't no river wide enough Iman
If you need me call me no matter where you are,
No matter how far; don't worry Iman
Just call my burner cell; I'll be there in a hurry
You don't have to worry,
Oh Iman there ain't no wall that's high enough,
Ain't no ocean deep enough,
Ain't no river wide enough
To keep stuff from getting to you Iman
Remember the day I set your mind free
I told you, you could always count on me
From that day on, I made a vow,
It'll be there when you want it,
Some way, some how"
NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!
But she PROMISED!!!!
But then, what do I expect from a democrat? ;)
you know Mark... you may be on to something there!!!!! Schumer, O'Donnell, and the rest of them.... hmm......
I found this really interesting... I'm not posting this to "poke" the losers or anything. But seriously... some of you need to think about this.... there are ALOT of people who voted for Trump who are not racist, misogynist, homophobic, or any other thing you tag them with... just as all Hillary voters aren't all ok with the reckless handling of classified information, and leaving 4 Americans to die in Benghazi, and campaign money coming from a country that sponsors terror and treats woman as 2nd class citizens....
RAAAALLLPHHH....."uh...his name is Ralph, man"... that's how I felt, this morning, LOL. Oh, and speaking of Cheech and Chong, you guys should start buying "those" stocks, ASAP. After 7 straight hours of reading... fundamentals, p/e's, on and on, I finally picked three... and they are up %50-%300...so far. They are mostly "penny" stocks, right now, so buy 10,000 shares, for a few hundred bucks. Like Trump says "what do you have to lose?"... except a couple hundred dollars... but the potential gains are making headway. Enjoy your millions, everyone !!
I was happy to hear Trump wants term limits, in the senate and Congress.
If he doesn't make healthcare a disaster, or make 20 million people lose their healthcare (think of all the people, in the middle of very expensive treatment, to survive), keeps his promise of replacing it "with something better", not mess with social security, then I will humbly apologize to all the Trump supporters. He keeps his promises? I'll eat my own words, right on this forum. Any recipes? Hahaha.... we'll see. Expect the worse, but hope for the best. Well, my friends.... this sure was a wild ride, huh?
sparksjbc1964 Tell Schumer to stop by my house so I can give her a good bye present!!;) I've got my masonry tools ready... Where we starting this wall??:). I personally am glad Clinton lost!! She is as crooked and conceited as the day is Long!! I hope president Trump is able to kick some ass!!
Mr.tone The democrats lost when the Supper Delegates (Establishment) went for Hilary over the Bern
Indie If Trump could get term limits in Congress (he won't- those people will never vote a rod against themselves), it would be the single greatest presidential accomplishment for the country since the Presidential term limit was created.
But it's not going to happen. Not yet, anyway.
Mr. Wilson Mark the date, folks...November 9, 2016...JR and I actually agree on something.
Maybe there is hope for the future. Skippy! Grab me a coke, will ya?!
iJay A full public audit of the Private Federal Reserve Bank would be the end of that scam...most important thing he could do.
imo
RU The protests happening are pointless. Bunch of sore losers. If Hillary won the election, do you think deplorable trumpsters would be getting together in cities everywhere rioting and protesting?
It would be great to have more factories here. Not everyone wants to go to college. A man could get a steady paying job with a short commute, get a modest home, marry, start a family...
The_Bishop Dump is a great divider. He was only ever speaking to half the population. It's not like he has great plans or great character (yes I know Hillary blah blah blah). He is so disgusting and repugnant. It's not the same as when Bush won the second time, I was upset yes but he won. Not sore losers, this is just unpalatable.
" If Hillary won the election, do you think deplorable trumpsters would be getting together in cities everywhere rioting and protesting?"
You are kidding, right? Not only would some supporters be protesting, but Trump would be contesting the results as well.
Well Kerri, if factories come back, it will probably be SC with an average salary of 38k. Good news! In SC, you can get a $225k house supportable on that salary.
But it won't be in NJ. For oh so many reasons.
And it probably won't be many places. Think its an empty promise. Like the return to coal or the return to steel. Can't even compete to export that stuff.
"And, the new first lady has been in photographed soft core porn. Try explaining that to your daughters."
eperot,
and where might I find that? Just for verification purposes of course.
boobalaa Here you go! Probably NSFW, although one could suggest you are just trying to learn more about the newly elected First Family.
http://nypost.com/2016/08/01/melania-trumps-girl-on-girl-photos-from-racy-shoot-revealed/
Then there's her GQ spread, a little more tame.
http://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article/donald-trump-melania-trump-knauss-first-lady-erections
Anyone that says/said they would leave the country, absolutely should.
Right now. Get out!!!!!!!
Honor your word as you expect others to honor theirs.
Maybe some time in another country would open their eyes to how good they have it here...
I am absolutely ashamed, disgusted and sickened by this, and by the fact that my neighbors can elect such an awful, hateful, bigoted, incompetent, mentally ill, incestuious, lecherous oompa lumpa Disgraceful. #NotMyPresident #NeverTrump
And no, Hillary was not my choice, while she had many years of public service, while trump only services himself, she was not without her many many problems and was far from a good choice.
We could have had Bernie. Warren County voted for him. Oh, what could have been.
alpha1beta Alpha1beta, Are u for real?? Bernie was just as big of a piece of crap as Hillary!!! She beat him in true Hillary fashion.... She had "Help".. As far as Trump he beat her fair and square... If you don't like it I'm sure there is a plane leaving for somewhere.. So get out!!!!Trump may be flawed and have no filter but at least he speaks his mind!! And as far as incompetent, awful,hateful etc.. Kinda sounds like Hillary, Bernie and Obama!!!! Obama has run this country in to the ground!!!!with the help of Bernie and Hillary!!!!
At least Bernie was honest. He was NUTS, but honest. His plans would have bankrupted the country. I have FAR more respect for Bernie than I could ever have for the lying, corrupt, reckless, above-the-peasants and above-the-law Clinton.
Had Bernie run against Trump, I honestly don't know if he could have won or not? Based on personality and a respectful campaign being run, yes. But his problem was (besides Hillary rigging the primary) that his economic/social program plans just didn't add up. Money doesn't grow on trees, and we can't print more. Bernie actually made a great statement yesterday about Trump being the president:
THIS is how you civilly disagree with someone. His supporters could take a lesson from him in that...
"Donald Trump tapped into the anger of a declining middle class that is sick and tired of establishment economics, establishment politics and the establishment media. People are tired of working longer hours for lower wages, of seeing decent paying jobs go to China and other low-wage countries, of billionaires not paying any federal income taxes and of not being able to afford a college education for their kids - all while the very rich become much richer.
To the degree that Mr. Trump is serious about pursuing policies that improve the lives of working families in this country, I and other progressives are prepared to work with him. To the degree that he pursues racist, sexist, xenophobic and anti-environment policies, we will vigorously oppose him."
I still want to know why the scuzzball, Trump won't show his taxes? He's really hiding something. I'm not sure if Pence would be worse, if Trump gets impeached, for criminal activity. At least Pence has public service experience and more self control.
Then there's the big old bully, Christie, the Trump's new Whitehouse pet, for attorney general?! Uugg... when do the little old ladies in wheelchairs, get locked up for using their marijuana cards? He's worse than Ashcroft, who went after all the medicinal marijuana users, in California.
Time to buy up real estate in Atlantic City. Those two cronies have had big plans (by taxing out the "undesirables"), from when they first walked out together during the first debates, arms around each other. Awwww.... they are just SO cute together. RRRAAAALPH!
If he shows his taxes will you then push your legislators to remove the legal loopholes Trump has most assuredly used to lower his tax burden?
Just curious because why else would anyone care to know?
http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/10/politics/calexit-donald-trump/index.html
Yes Please! Not having California politics affecting the rest of the country certainly would be a big step to making America great again...
Sounds good to me - 100 day plan.
http://www.npr.org/2016/11/09/501451368/here-is-what-donald-trump-wants-to-do-in-his-first-100-days
jr's words we never expected to see: " I and other progressives...." I know...he just pasted it....
And to all those stating if we don't like it, we should leave: After the last 8 years, why are you still here? Exactly. That's why we will be here in 4 years too.
Let the delusional celebration begin: http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2016/11/09/swastikas-trump-graffiti-in-philly.html?via=desktop&source=copyurl
http://metro.co.uk/2016/11/10/gay-man-attacked-hours-after-trump-election-win-6248329/
I think it became interesting when I saw Paul Ryan use the "mandate" word since somehow in my small mind, losing the popular vote is not exactly a mandate.
So the show is over, the game's finished, let the work begin, and best luck.
Somehow if Giuliani gets AG, Sessions gets Defense, Priebus as Chief of Staff, Carson for Surgeon General or Health, and Christie for anything.......Lord save us all.
Trump doesn't prepare his own taxes. His tax return is prepared by a Manhattan based accounting firm called WeiserMazars, the 24th largest in the nation. They are paid to get him the most breaks like every single other client they service. No one says, "I don't want that deduction, I'd like to pay more."). OK armchair accountant - is AGI is much less than what he brings in yearly. - shocker. I can pretty much guarantee you he has no idea whats on those forms other than the bottom line - this way is better for you to create imaginary drama with anyway.
http://weisermazars.com/
His personal returns will NOT show:
How much money he has
How many assets he has and what their values are (because this is done in other private entities tax returns)
How much money he has really made during the year (It will only show how much money he has allocated himself to live, e.g. everything related to his private jet probably will not appear in his tax returns and would not shock me if it is $1)
How much money he has really given to charity because, again, if he gave money from private entities the deductions will not show on his personal tax returns
Trump will not release his tax returns because if you don't understand the tax code it's really irrelevant. I would not be surprised to see his personal income being very low whereas ignorant people would probably make it a national outrage.
If Trump gets even HALF of that list accomplished in his first term, I'll be shocked. if OBAMA had proposed these items, I would have been behind them 100%. Hillary as well.
* FIRST, propose a Constitutional Amendment to impose term limits on all members of Congress;
* SECOND, a hiring freeze on all federal employees to reduce federal workforce through attrition (exempting military, public safety, and public health);
* THIRD, a requirement that for every new federal regulation, two existing regulations must be eliminated;
* FOURTH, a 5 year-ban on White House and Congressional officials becoming lobbyists after they leave government service;
* FIFTH, a lifetime ban on White House officials lobbying on behalf of a foreign government;
* SIXTH, a complete ban on foreign lobbyists raising money for American elections.
"I would not be surprised to see his personal income being very low whereas ignorant people would probably make it a national outrage."
As an example... Steve Jobs had a "salary" of $1. He drove a Mercedes-Benz SL55 AMG (which cost ~$115,000). Rich people find many creative ways to put their income into the right buckets to minimize how much they pay in taxes.
"And to all those stating if we don't like it, we should leave:"
That statement is mostly/entirely directed to people that publicly stated they WOULD leave if he were elected.
"After the last 8 years, why are you still here?"
Pretty sure, at some point in one of our firearm discussions, that sentiment (why don't we leave NJ/NY/MA etc. if we don't like the gun laws) was probably asked of us. I put my money where my mouth is and I DID leave NJ - just like I promised I would.
Oh Mark let's hope that calexit gains steam! We would be much better off without that leftist cesspool. Background checks for ammo purchases? Get real!
Actually Skippy, you may learn more from Trump's taxes than you think. Trump's taxes in the past have been an amalgamation of business and personal because he is a private not public business owner type. That's how he could lose $1B --- it looked like business, it was even other people's money he lost, but it counted as his personal loss, tax wise.
I agree that his taxes are mandated by his accountants but he does direct the decisions, if he's any kind of manager. But then again is he? He said he would be at arm's length with his company post Presidency. There would be no conflict of interest. Then he said arms length means he is turning it over to his kids. Are you arm's length from your kids? That's not a blind trust, it would be illegal as a blind trust. There is no law forcing him to really do a blind trust, just as there is no law stopping his companies from dealing with countries he is actively negotiating with.
Most Presidents since Johnson have set up blind trusts. Romney had two. However, Congress is at the less than 5% level.
I think when it comes to taxes, arms length, and international dealings, we are the ones in a blind trust.
"losing the popular vote is not exactly a mandate."
There is a disconnect between electoral and popular votes when the turnout is low - like it always is. Also, this is partly a function of states that are a "given" for a particular candidate versus "battleground" states when those two states have vastly different populations.
But one cannot assume that if the elections WERE based on popular votes that the outcomes would be flipped to match. You can't change one variable (electoral vs. popular) and expect other *uncontrolled* variables (turnout and voter selections) to remain the same. People would adjust to the new rules, and (hopefully) realize their votes are more meaningful since 1 person now = 1 vote regardless of what state you're in.
In other words, how many Republicans didn't vote in NJ because NJ is *always* going to the Democrat (and vice versa for other states).
So go ahead, get rid of the electoral college - but at the same time you would then have to get rid of gerrymandered districts for congress/senate/etc. and I don't think that's a can the Democrats want to open.
Ed Klein: Hillary Couldn't Stop Crying, Told Friend She Blames Comey and Obama For Loss
"it's always someone's else's fault"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbN4RqeSfPw
Joe even if they did get rid of the EC - I think the result would be the same. people in CA NY and pretty much any state with Tier 1 cities don't bother to come out and vote republican.
Point still is that it was not a mandate which should send literally the same message to Republicans as to Democrats. We are divided and if you don't listen across the aisle we will remain divided.
I believe these fools who are out protesting and rioting would be better off going back to school and learn the laws of the land and how our President is elected. He won by the Electoral Vote, She lost. Period, end of story. You don't like it, MOVE. I blame both Republicans and Democrats, and that includes our sitting President as well, for the awful campaign we just witnessed. In all my years, I have never seen this type of BS. Social media and the media infused much of it but out of the mouths of adults and politicians, I was embarrassed for this Country. Let the healing process begin. I remember 9/11, when we were attacked. I remember how we all came together as one nation. Flags were everywhere. What happened? Did we forget already?
justwondering you mean the Democrats that called Trump supporters a hate group are out committing hate crimes? shocker. go ahead pull the "but those aren't real Democrats" card.
"any state with Tier 1 cities don't bother to come out and vote republican"
That's true, but perhaps more Republican voters in NC and SC *would* show up to "cancel out" the lefties in NJ and elsewhere - which doesn't happen now because the votes don't go "over" state lines.
Heck, my vote didn't mean much here, because Trump was going to win SC no matter what. I still voted, but how many others may not have done so using that "safe" logic?
I think getting rid of the electoral college would also help third party candidates as well. Let them aggregate ALL of their national support instead of getting buried in small geographic pockets of voters.
yep - I don't disagree with any of that. It would be more representative of the 5% needed for the independents to get funding
To all the "never Trump" folks and protesters: l get it. You are upset by the results. I am too. But it's time to stop. Trump won, fair and square. You and l may not have voted for him, but he is our new President come January 20th. Respect our process, and don't try to delegitimize the outcome, or else you are no better than those on the right who constantly called into question Obama's nationality, religion, or place of birth. Be stoic, and remember that there is much more to life than politics. Get out there, enjoy the nice day, and get to work. Take care of your families and neighbors. Because we are all in this together. Unless you want every election from now on to be filled with this divide and acrimony. Show this world and those you disagree with that you are better than that. And by all means, stay vigilant and informed. If after Trump takes office, you disagree with some policy...then go use your right of free assembly to protest. Until then, deal.
And for the other side: have some humility. It's time to put the signs away, and yes, l'm talking to you, big plywood "Hillary for Prison" in the back of the prominently displayed pickup truck guy.
Carry on. We are a Nation before we are political parties.
Well said!
http://heatst.com/politics/canadians-dont-want-america-fleeing-american-liberals-especially-lena-dunham/
BTW Canada doesn't want "fleeing liberals"
Eperot, beautiful words of wisdom for all of us on all sides. I love the last sentence - so true. Thank you!
Spring fever If there is a "mandate" of some kind in this election, it's not that Trump won. It's that voters gave control of the presidency, senate, and house to the republicans, also giving them the SCOTUS pick.
Which will probably change in the mid-term elections. If it doesn't, then yes I'd say it's a verifiable "mandate."
This is unreal....bunch of sore loosers stomping their feet....a true adult temper tantrum......this is what we want to teach our kids????
Thise people should be embarassed for not even giving Trump a freakin chance!
This is unreal....bunch of sore loosers stomping their feet....a true adult temper tantrum......this is what we want to teach our kids????
now now Darrin you can't tell me people wouldn't be protesting if Clinton won? After months of hearing how the election was rigged and how Trump wouldn't accept the results unless he won you don't think people would be out protesting a "crooked Hillary's victory?? you know there would be protests, the only difference would there would be armed protests.
heck some were even calling for a revolution if Crooked Hillary won.
You really think the people that were chanting "Lock her up" would have accepted her victory? please
Jim L I like how Dump the new POS is "honored" to meet President Obama. Whhaaat?? Just like him and his Dump supporters I'd like to punch him in the face. Dump that is. He's so ugly on the inside and out. I rate him a negative ten.
"you know there would be protests, the only difference would there would be armed protests. "
So what? There were plenty of armed people at Trump rallies, conventions (at least outside - the arena had its own policy), etc. during the primaries - I don't recall any protesters (from either side) being shot at.
I didn't say anyone would get shot. I'm just saying they would be armed. Just like they were at the conventions and rallies.
My point was there would be protests if Hillary won so it's kinda silly calling these anti trump protestors sore losers. Would have happened either way with this divided and ugly election
You didn't have to "say" it, we knew what you were implying...
Otherwise what was your point in mentioning that at all? Could you also describe what color socks they would be wearing? I mean, if you're just saying...
Go above and re-read my post on accepting the results, drink some chamomile tea, and breathe deeply. Time to come together, folks.
"This is unreal....bunch of sore loosers stomping their feet....a true adult temper tantrum......this is what we want to teach our kids????
Thise people should be embarassed for not even giving Trump a freakin chance!"
The same Trump who spent eight years stomping his feet about a birth certificate? I think they learned it from watching him...
"My point was there would be protests if Hillary won so it's kinda silly calling these anti trump protestors sore losers."
I agree there would probably be protests, but can't say definitively how they would act. Anyone can guess, but it's just conjecture.
We KNOW the anti-trump protesters have attacked police, caused property damage, started fires, etc. I think it's perfectly fair to call those people sore losers for committing those acts.
And if trump supporters protested they would be sore loosers as well, so whats your pount jim?
Saying there would have been protests the other way around is a assumption
The turtle must go. Poster boy for term limits.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/mcconnell-hints-against-nuclear-option/article/2607015
Agreed- McConnell needs to go; has for awhile now. "Poster boy for term limits" is a perfect description.
One of the problems I have is that Dump stoked and created the great divide that is now manifesting in protests. He encouraged divisiveness he got it. Now we're supposed to "unify" ?? NO, you can't have it both ways. I'm supposed to call him "my president", mm hm like he called President Obama president? Which he did not btw. He has said for eight years he's not my president. What a dueche. He doesn't deserve to be "my president" . And he isn't, not today anyway. You get what you give. He has to prove that he is presidential then, maybe if he doesn't take us back to the Middle Ages. Uh never mind you aren't able to understand. Carry on with gloating and denigrating the people who love this country probably more than you. Will I be okay, probably but who knows what civil rights and liberties will be trampled? People are already feeling bold enough to beat up on people of color and using the n word. In a school no less. Dump is the impetus for this behavior. People are emboldened by Dumps own behavior and attitude. He is the destroyer from within. It seems to me the people who voted for Dump were complaining about their economic condition, jobs etc. I say quit whining and get off your ass and figure out what you need to do to change your situation. You know as you righties like to say "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" (see, I can do it too). So with that I'm done for awhile. I need to disconnect. Ta Ta.
"One of the problems I have is that Dump stoked and created the great divide that is now manifesting in protests. "
Oh brother. Because no divineness existed before his candidacy?
"I need to disconnect. "
Sounds like you're already pretty well disconnected to me...
Oh my.
Looks like Trump might have won the popular vote after all, according to reliable democrat-approved source, CNN:
http://townhall.com/tipsheet/christinerousselle/2016/11/10/plot-twist-cnn-now-saying-that-donald-trump-won-the-popular-vote-n2244077
Yeah trump caused the division along racial lines in this country - African Americans rioting in the the streets, burning their neighborhoods to the ground and killing police officers - meanwhile BLM was being promoted by democratic senators and congressmen on the floor of the house and senate did that. What emboldened the African Americans who savagely beat Trump supporters ? Moronic
Evil Trump strikes again. Yale professor lets students skip test in wake of Trump victory
http://nypost.com/2016/11/09/yale-professor-lets-students-skip-test-in-wake-of-trump-victory/
Yep, the liberal cupcake generation continues.
Mike L 
brendan While you all continue to bicker and gloat and make points that you've been making for over a year our President met with our President- elect in the White House. I saw a humble and deferential Trump who said he hoped he would be able to have more meetings with President Obama. I watched them shake hands and I truly appreciated the excellence of our country. Peaceful and graceful transition of power. As Churchill said, Democracy is the worst form of government, except all others.
So...the dog chased the car and caught it. It remains to be seen what he'll do with it now.
https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/1120 (view the attachment)
http://www.inquisitr.com/3696795/you-all-know-that-the-clinton-campaign-deliberately-plotted-to-get-trump-nominated-right/
"You All Know That The Clinton Campaign Deliberately Plotted To Get Trump Nominated, Right?"
Skippy, I think you're probably a nice guy. Time to focus on going forward issues. You won. Congratulations. Time will tell if you got what you wanted. But gloating this early, gloating at all, doesn't make you look like a mature person. Karma is a bitch.
Well considering almost 50% of eligible voters did not vote, whether for or against trump there's no one to blame but themselves if they're unhappy with the outcome. That's democracy. There are men and women who fought and died for our right to do so. IMO it's un-American to not vote. With that said, all the people who voted for him with no actual knowledge of how government works both in USA and abroad (trade deals,foreign policy,immigration,NATO), be careful what you wish for or should I say careful what you vote for? Statistically the the majority of his supporters will be hit the hardest by his proposals ironically. People didn't just vote for Donald trump, it's republican all around now. Not to mention a decent portion of what he said to get the votes literally can not be done(at least not in four years or without avoiding war)I'm neither shaming him for any number of shameful things nor am I singing Hilary's praises. I did my part. I voted. Who knows what will happen? No one. If you're going by his words so far it's not going to be good, if he can actually manage to work with the people and not the politicians we may have a shot.
Em Media's influence and culpability shouldn't be overlooked. I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels the same about MSM in general:
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/commentary-the-unbearable-smugness-of-the-press-presidential-election-2016/
JIT we agree here. MSM owns much of the election of a reality show President. Yet I think they have far less influence than social media for the first time in our history.
Here are some disenchanted yutes who were not happy with the results of the election.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1089291451191724&id=337624719691738
kb2755 Trump won the electoral college but lost the popular vote. Give him a chance. Wait and see what he does during his first 100 days. Then the fun begins again preparing for 2020 let alone the midterms.
Half the country is pissed right now. Go carefully!!
Jono 
Mr.tone - Politely, go f yourself. You are the sort of degenerate that makes republicans and conservative look bad. I respect many conservative ideas, ideologically, I am a centralist.
You sir (or ma'am) are an idiot. Let's break it down.
1) How is Bernie a piece of crap? Give me your reasons. You have a comment, back it up. I'll throw one point to him, regardless of your believes in anything - he has never flipped his opinion on any topic. Like it or not, he stands up for what he believes in.
Trump, can't remember his own positions from day to day (for a trivial example, look up his opinion on teleprompters)
2) I don't believe in Hillary. I didn't believe in her in 08, I have never voted for her, and I have spoken against her for years. Up against anyone else, even many republicans, I would vote for the other candidate, but not Trump.
3) Trump lost the popular vote (Maybe he didn't? I know there are many uncounted ballets left and we may not know for sure for weeks) Trump won the electoral college. Fair and square? Maybe - probably, if you don't count running a campaign where almost everything out of his mouth was a flat out lie, conflicted with previous statements or history from him. I'm not going to argue he won, I am going to protest the hell out of it and make sure my voice is heard. I believe the electoral college is a good system, but not great. I would have more votes and no winner take all. And I bet, if I had those two changes, Trump would have won by a larger margin.
4) You get out. This is my country. Unfortunately for me, it's yours' too. I'm not afraid of Trump and I sure as hell don't feel any threat from The Hill People. I'm going to fight - resist, protest and donate to causes I believe in.
5) No filter...like you? You're right however, he does speak his mind, which changes almost daily, and has said a great many things that would get him fired or arrested and convicted. I could shot a man on 5th avenue? I'd jail my political opponent without a trial? Do you honestly condone this type of speech? If so, you can't call yourself an American, these are just about the most un-American comments ever made.
6) You take any metric (I'm talking FACTS here) - with the exception of the national debt - and the entire country is in a better place than when Bush left office. Yes, there are people worse off, hell, as a 20-something, I'm one of them! But as a whole, the country is in a better place.
7) Awful, hateful, incompetent. I will not defend Hillary. She's not my candidate. I think in many respects she is incompetent. Her foreign policy is terrible. As far as I can tell, she has no beliefs at all But in this case, she is the lessor or two evils. 4 more years of Obama isn't exactly what I'd like to see - my support for him has declined drastically since he took office, but I'd rather have 4 more years of a standstill than jumping back in time 50 years.
As for Bernie, you just take back those words because clearly you know nothing about that man. He may just be the most pure hearted of any politician - agree with him or not, he wants a better life for you.
I bet you Trump won't last 4 years - by 2020, he'll be in a prison cell. I'll take bets. I lost one this week.
Serious question here: In a word or simple phrase, why did you vote trump? Economy? Religion? The hope for change? Feeling of disenfranchisement?
I voted for Bernie in the primary because I believed he had good ideas where to lead this country and believe that he was a person of principle. I voted Hillary this week, because I believe there is no single greater threat to the safety and wellbeing of this country as a whole, than Donald J Trump. I hope he proves me wrong, but having read his entire website, and tried to find logic and reasoning and any semblance of a plan for this country for over a year and a half, I don't believe he has what it takes to lead his way through a corn maze, let alone represent the best interests of anyone other than himself.
Trumpsters are not dumb enough to protest like those idiots are doing. Republicans did not protest when Obama won. Would be damn pissed if Hillary won, but not going to take it to the street burning flags and causing complete chaos. There are some sick sick leftists out there. And this is not going to end anytime soon. Very bad times ahead dealing with the nut jobs.
Peaceful but forceful protest is the way to go. Let him and the rest of the country know, he does not have our approval, and that he must earn it. Let him know where our lines are.
Quote- EM- "There are men and women who fought and died for our right to do so. IMO it's un-American to not vote."
I was a medic in the U.S. Army. I did not vote.
If you think that is un-American, I stand by my freedom to both NOT to vote and to tell you to go screw.
Did you serve your country? "I did my part. I voted." Your part?, did you actually sacrifice?, years, pain, tired, cold, hot, monetarily, emotionally, family, etc. If not, then you are waaaay less 'American ' than I am, and a hypocrite spewing self-serving rhetoric.
Josh JIT, perhaps forceful is not the best choice of words - persistent? Stern? Serious? Not backing down, not giving in or giving up and not a willy nilly sit in like occupy wall street.
Trump is actually pretty liberal. He's literally waved the gay flag; he's ALWAYS been PRO-CHOICE, he's as far from religious as you can get without admitting to being an atheist, etc. Remember, he endorsed Hillary in 2008; he praised Bill Clinton in 1998 as a great president, etc.
He wanted the presidency; he knew the only way to get it would be to run as a republican since Hillary was bound to get the dem nomination. He knew that the only way to get the GOP to nominate him was to pretend to be anti-abortion, anti-Muslim, etc.
He pulled it off!
Trump is a Leftie So what Leftie is implying is that Trump is actually a poor black man pretending to be a Rich White guy, and he's passing.
Interesting Premise, personally i just think hes Crazy and has conned a large number of folks into thinking hes only Racist.
Agust 
Never underestimate the power of Twitter. Hey, at least I won $20 bucks. Had a bet, back in the very beginning. I made a bet with my husband that Trump was going to win, just because of his antics and Paris Hilton mentality, regarding free media coverage, 24/7, which equated to 2 billion dollars worth of free advertising. My husband said "no way, how could anyone vote for such an evil person". I said "you watch, I know the power of branding, media and subliminal messages ".
We both liked Bernie, the best, but knew he wouldn't win the election, so he bet for Hillary. We were both praying I would lose the bet. Oh well, 20 bucks, and Trump. I'll have to take it... should've taken the original $100 bet he wanted to make. I thought that Trump's character and integrity was too shady, so I was afraid to up my bet. I underestimated how many people could actually resonate with someone, like Trump.
Once again, Mike Rowe gets it exactly right. It's scary how right this guy is all the time. Too bad we can't elect him as president (Mr. Smith Goes To Washington?)
[excerpt]:
I know people are freaked out, Carol. I get it. I’m worried too. But not because of who we elected. We've survived 44 Presidents, and we'll survive this one too. I’m worried because millions of people now seem to believe that Trump supporters are racist, xenophobic, and uneducated misogynists. I'm worried because despising our candidates publicly is very different than despising the people who vote for them.
Last week, three old friends – people I’ve known for years - each requested to be “unfriended” by anyone who planned on voting for Trump. Honestly, that was disheartening. Who tosses away a friendship over an election? Are my friends turning into those mind-numbingly arrogant celebrities who threaten to move to another country if their candidate doesn’t win? Are my friends now convinced that people they’ve known for years who happen to disagree with them politically are not merely mistaken – but evil, and no longer worthy of their friendship?
For what it’s worth, Carol, I don’t think Donald Trump won by tapping into America’s “racist underbelly,” and I don’t think Hillary lost because she’s a woman. I think a majority of people who voted in this election did so in spite of their many misgivings about the character of both candidates. That’s why it’s very dangerous to argue that Clinton supporters condone lying under oath and obstructing justice. Just as it’s equally dangerous to suggest a Trump supporter condones gross generalizations about foreigners and women.
These two candidates were the choices we gave ourselves, and each came with a heaping helping of vulgarity and impropriety. Yeah, it was dirty job for sure, but the winner was NOT decided by a racist and craven nation – it was decided by millions of disgusted Americans desperate for real change. The people did not want a politician. The people wanted to be seen. Donald Trump convinced those people that he could see them. Hillary Clinton did not.
ah.... a lovely thing, that liberal/democrat "tolerance"....
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/11/10/boss-tells-pro-trump-employees-to-resign.html
someone who I worked with in previous position ( very sweet granola type off the grid hippie lady ) and I had become close and long after I left. We would email each other articles of interest (both professional and current events) send each other cute pictures or our pets etc.
She emails me the morning after the election and asks if I voted for "him" . I sad yeah of course. BOOM goes the dynamite - she unloaded every bit of anger angst and frustration at me because her candidate lost. At the end she asked me to never contact her again. That hurt.
I had literally done nothing to her except admitting I voted Trump. It offended her that much. The APA has stated people are having serious mental breakdowns across the country - Yale had to cancel exams. This election has really turned brother against brother and it's sad.
Another thing i noticed is people who I have never met walking up to me (because of some piece of trump gear I had on) and striking up a conversation about a trump topic or blowing their horn and waving when they see my bumper sticker. I guess I'll make some new friends out of this election and have definitely made lots of acquaintances. I guess we really are at a pivotal junction in history - we need to put our best foot forward and unite as one people - as Obama said When he was elected - even if you voted against me - I'm your president too and will work towards improving your country.
" that liberal/democrat "tolerance".
The CEO that sent that letter then sold 90% of the stock he owned (in his own company)... Getting out before it tanks?
https://www.thecerbatgem.com/2016/11/10/matthew-m-maloney-sells-14491-shares-of-grubhub-inc-grub-stock-2.html
"The APA has stated people are having serious mental breakdowns across the country - Yale had to cancel exams."
I support mandatory background and mental health checks for liberals before they do, well, anything...
http://www.mediaite.com/online/watch-man-gets-beaten-up-by-chicago-group-yelling-dont-vote-trump/
More Hillary supporters. Or savages.
"More Hillary supporters. Or savages."
Try that down here, oh tolerant liberals...
You grab me from my car and my Glock is coming with me.
And I thought only whites were only capable of hate crimes. Well that's what the media preaches to us.......
Quote Josh "Did you serve your country? "I did my part. I voted." Your part?, did you actually sacrifice?, years, pain, tired, cold, hot, monetarily, emotionally, family, etc. If not, then you are waaaay less 'American ' than I am, and a hypocrite spewing self-serving rhetoric."
Sadly for you and me. I did. I am now blind in my right eye and deaf in my right ear. I've been in mental and physical therapy for 3 years. I have sacrificed. My family has sacrificed. My great grandfather(who came here via Ellis island) on down to me have all served. You do not need to throw the aftermath of service in my face. I'm well aware. Hence why I said IN MY OPINION. I also respect the right to not vote. If you had read what I said my point was that the 50% of people who could vote and did not have no right to complain if they don't like the outcome.
So you can tell your fellow veteran to 'go screw' and I respect your right to do so and also thank you for your service to OUR country.
Some nice post-election remarks from one Trump supporter.
https://youtu.be/xNbF9PI9Gjo?list=FLTtgRqjamnYx8wHNOqjcJpA
I'm not looking for any praise here, so read entirely before you make negative comments please.
I am a Veteran, and in addition, I have also served my community for almost 30 years. I have left blood both on the battle field and the streets here during that service. That being said, no matter who you were for or against, the election is over. Screaming, crying, rioting, causing inconvenience to others, will not change the outcome. If you don't like the results of the election, simply turn off your T.V. for the next 4years and hope for the best. By doing negative things we only hurt ourselves and those around us. Rather, use that energy to improve your situation or the situation of your town or country. Doing otherwise only continues the fear and hate that has been demonstrated leading up to the election. Lets at least show the rest of the world we are united and will move forward no matter who is in office or what issues we may have between ourselves. In the scheme of things, this is a blurb in history and its too soon to tell whether that blurb will be good or bad. In the meantime, just let it go, you cannot turn the clock back.
Now its time for a nap.
I'd also like to add that I'm disheartened that a fellow service member would throw their service and pain from after math of war in someone they presume is a civilians face. Why serve if you're just going to use it against the people you claim to be fighting for their rights,one of which is free speech? I'm actively trying to reenlist but obviously hitting some obstacles getting cleared due to injuries and mental health status. And with that said, and I have no doubt you'll be happy, I say farewell to this forum. Thank you again for your service(that goes for all veterans or currently enlisted service members ). I wish you a healthy life and hope you are able to get the help you need to deal with the consequences of your voluntary sacrifices. Today of all days I hope everyone remembers us and the people before us who have fought for them or are currently fighting for our great country. I'm off to get my free cup of coffee. Hope everyone has a good day and I sincerely hope this country will come togwther regardless of political opinion but because of what our rights afford us and common respect and decency toward fellow man.
Mark Mc.
This is what l'm talking about. Rubbing it in people's faces. This must stop as must the liberal protests. All you are doing is continuing to stoke the fire that divides the nation at this time.
Hear Hear JR " The people did not want a politician. The people wanted to be seen. Donald Trump convinced those people that he could see them. Hillary Clinton did not."
HOW THE FORGOTTEN MAN DECIDED THIS ELECTION!!
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2016/11/10/judge-napolitano-how-forgotten-man-decided-2016-election.html
sha44ss Tell you what Eperot... when people stop smashing cars, starting fires, looting businesses, and attacking police officers and other citizens (all crimes, I might add) because they disagree with the election, we'll stop posting funny Youtube videos (not a crime) because we do agree with it.
The pendulum for blame here is WAYYYYY over on the other side.
And here we go ... White racist men assembling in washington!! So Discusting and embarrassing!!! Dump Trump !!
Teena "The pendulum for blame here is WAYYYYY over on the other side."
Exactly. It's why Trump won. The "center" has moved so far left, anyone who is "normal right" is now considered an extremist. It's ridiculous. Time to move the center BACK TO THE CENTER.
You want to blame someone for Trump's win, you need to look internally.... if Obama had done a better job, perhaps Hillary could have retained his voters....
I resent the fact that both Clinton and Obama are not saying anything to stop the violence - it's pretty clear that the MSM considers it "justified" outrage and are trying to push a narrative that shows a Trump win leads to anarchy.
Great article (written by a canadian, lol) about "the future of the republican/democrat" party... it's REALLY good..... points out that Trump and Bernie actually share some planks....
https://www.theburningplatform.com/2016/02/02/is-a-new-era-upon-us/
Mark
It starts with you. I've already done my part to stop the rhetoric, accept the results, and move on with life. Will you? Or will you keep assigning blame? If you aren't part of the solution, then you're part of the problem.
"Or will you keep assigning blame?"
OMG Eperot - There is also a thing called sense of humor.
If you're equating the "blame" for posting a humorous internet video to the "blame" for destroying private property and assaulting other people I'm not really sure what to tell you.
I'm hardly "stoking the fire"... unless you think a video is sufficient impetus to commit violent crimes (hmm that sounds familiar...)
Before I take my four-year nap, just wanted to mention the alternative scenario in which Clinton would have won. Don't tell me that there would not have been Trump supporters protesting in the streets and not accepting Clinton as their president.
Wendy I find it interesting that the media opinion on why Hillary lost is because she did not get the white, middle class, non-college educated vote. One of their infamous polls? No, it just makes them feel better that only less educated people voted against her. I do believe many non-Hill voteres had college degrees. And just because a voter doesn't have a degree, doesn't mean that they are not intelligent.
maja2 http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2016/11/11/orange-is-new-black-actress-lea-delaria-says-wants-to-take-out-trump-supporters-with-baseball-bat.html
A peaceful statement from an actress. I wonder what the backlash from the msm would have been if Ted Nugent said that about liberals.
2.4MM votes on change.org petitioning the electoral college to vote based on the popular vote.
https://www.change.org/p/electoral-college-electors-electoral-college-make-hillary-clinton-president-on-december-19
Anyone care to inform those folks that even the popular vote doesn't represent *everyone*? Suppose not...
I am pretty sure that no HLer condones violence whether in protest or not.
That said, there have been pretty rough protests after many elections including the past two Obama elections. http://www.nbcnews.com/id/27738018/ns/us_news-life/t/obama-election-spurs-race-threats-crimes/#.WCX3U5frs2w
Much more and the same from 2012 can be found.
Preceding the election Trump has advocated violence against groups and individuals. Here's just one map that shows it worked: http://archives.bluenationreview.com/trump-hate-map-shows-where-his-supporters-have-harassed-latinos/
What did you expect the response to be?
And there's already been a good amount of it from Trumpeters post his election too. Swastikas, hate graffiti, shots fired into crowds of protestors (we really don't know who did the shooting), vandalism and more... http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/10/us/post-election-hate-crimes-and-fears-trnd/
First point is none of this is correct, arrest em all and lock em up, and don't believe these are the heart and soul of either liberals or conservatives.
Second is you know it will all die down soon, from both sides, until Trump actually starts doing something.
But the most important point is to listen. You won, you have it all, it's yours to fu or not. Rural American, White America, and the forgotten people have won the day, rejoice but don't gloat and certainly fight back against those who believe this is a license for hate from either side. But if you go after these people or forget these people or make their lives worse, there will be a cost not only to your plans and programs, but to America.
I think in 2010, you took back control of the House and in 2012 the Senate whereupon you stated you would block any Obama initiative. And for the most part, for six years you did. Hopefully we can do better here, but if you don't listen, you will get the same result. There's only so much you can do without a 66% Senate affirmative vote if the minority decides to gum up the works and I can't wait to see how many Executive Orders Trump unleashes.
Again, good luck and best wishes
The executive branch enforces laws. The legislative branch makes laws. The judicial branch evaluates laws.
It would be better if people targeted their anger toward the right place. Not everything is the fault of, or even under the control of the President.
The current figurehead shouldn't be assumed to do it all, and not discerning the role difference ourselves just makes things worse.
JIT, that's how it SHOULD be, but not how it is. The executive branch has been 'making laws' via executive orders as well as entering into agreements with foreign countries without proper authorization from Congress as per the Constitution (Iran). You also left out the fourth branch of government (cabinet level agencies) that legislate through regulation. IMO the government is overreaching it's original intended power all over the damn place. We need to get back to the original, founding ideas of what government is and what it should never be (among other things, a lifelong career).
BTW, the link I posted above was NOT written by a Canadian- that was incorrect (I copid and pasted an email from my sister.) It's written by Pat Buchanan, and it's very interesting...he draws some parallels and actual AGREEMENTS between the GOP revolution (that elected Trump) and the much smaller DNC revolution, which has really just begun with Bernie.
"The executive branch has been 'making laws' via executive orders as well as entering into agreements with foreign countries without proper authorization from Congress as per the Constitution (Iran). "
What laws were made by executive orders and how could we enter an unauthorized agreement?
Really makes your side look feckless to allow all this law breaking to go on during their watch. Time to boot the establishment toadies, right?
you really aren't aware of Obama's executive orders SD? I don't believe that for a second. he signed 32 of them just this year.
regarding Iran, Obama never received super-majority senate approval which is required as per Article II, Section 2, Clause 2 of the U.S. Constitution.
i'm in 100% agreement that Republicans like Mitch McConnell are completely feckless and need to go. Hopefully KY does the right thing and boots that turtle when the time comes. the great (but ultimately self-destructive) thing about the republican party is that we do call out our own party members that suck. The dems are so much better at consolidating power, covering for each other and ramming their agenda down the nation's throat.
"thing about the republican party is that we do call out our own party members that suck. The dems are so much better at consolidating power, covering for each other and ramming their agenda down the nation's throat."
Until THIS election, when they (Trump voters) ignored Trump's faults (just like the dems always do)... then the dems are SHOCKED when we won't call him out on his trespasses!!! Playing their game... it was a beautiful thing to watch, the MSM hitting him again and again and again, and his poll numbers just kept rising.
"JIT, that's how it SHOULD be, but not how it is."
Right. Why?
And if our government itself isn't held to task how can anyone possibly expect *any* law to be binding, at all?????
Do you really not know why things are so completely messed up? You really can't see it?
This is pretty funny, thearpy dogs and Play doh and crying rooms needed for the entitled child like college children who cannot fathom a president that may not be one their mommies and daddies wanted (or, their poison minded liberal professors have told them to be afraid of). Maybe their moms should have to come to college with a box of pampers too!
Whatever happened to "a little adversity will help you deal with real life"?
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2016/11/09/colleges-try-to-comfort-students-upset-by-trump-victory/
The Rhyme Animal 
Chris Christie OUT - Mike Pence to lead the transition plan. Hallelujah!
Don't want CC anywhere near there. I hope they are sending him packing back to Mendham.
let me start with my biases ... I voted for clinton both because I thought she would be a good president and because I did not like trump's positions. also, while I do believe that trump does not respect individuals who are different than himself, I do not believe that is the case with someone who supports him, since I have no idea, even if I read through every post here, what that person is really like.
for those of you this, why do you dislike "the government"? I get that you probably like having a military force. but would you truly like to live in an anarchistic world where anyone could basically do anything? for example, if I thought I could make money by buying the house next to you and building a big, open garage for toxic waste, would you be okay with that? or if I chose to use agent orange to keep the weeds down on my lawn, is that okay? my guess is no. heck, my guess is that you're not even okay if the phone company wanted to raise the bill on my monopolistic line. or if you're in a union, you probably want the federal regulation that a company must allow it. all of those controls are put in place by "the government". and how does "the government" run? by politics. just like we call a person who runs a company a "ceo" and a person who instructs children in a school a "teacher" so to have we named people who work in "the government" - they're politicians. they're objective is to work with their peer politicians to come to agreements on what is best for their represented people.
but obviously I am not in the majority on that opinion. so, honestly, why do you dislike "the government" and hate "politicians"?
Maja, my fortune cookie from yesterday reads
Education and intelligence aren't the same thing!
Let's be really honest, if everything was as great as SD and other Obama/Hillary supporters would like you to believe why did she lose traditionally blue states like Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan. Did the people of those states suddenly become racist and misogynistic, vengeful and hateful, no. It's because things have never been quite as rosy as the current administration along with help from the media have presented it. Real unemployment is closer to 10% than 4.9% and race relations are significantly worse today than when Obama took office. The country is going in the wrong direction and people were tired of being taken advantage of. Trump was the agent of change for those that felt their voices haven't been heard and were overlooked. Take a few more days to bitch and cry about it, then put on your big boy pants and move on. He's our president fair and square, he could flame out spectacularly or surprise all of us. I'm hoping for the latter.
Just remember, you voted for Trump. When he turns out to be the democrat he admitted he always has been, do NOT get angry. The evidence has been there all along.
I for one am looking forward to his presidency, b/c, unlike Hillary, who was a war hawk and would have gone to yet another war for Israel's sake, against our own interests, Trump will tell Israel to go pound salt and will NOT sentence our American soldiers to death to score political points with Netanyahu.
That statement re: Israel is completely wrong, uninformed and opposite to their respective positions.
You have a point about Trump. Time will tell. With Hillary there would be no need to wait and see.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-hails-israel-beacon-hope-130624506.html
"any peace deal "must be negotiated between the parties themselves, and not imposed on them by others".
https://www.yahoo.com/news/damascus-allies-upbeat-trump-win-await-policies-102359261.html
"- Syrian President Bashar al-Assad and his allies hope to benefit from Donald Trump’s election win, believing it has saved them from the risks of an interventionist Clinton administration."
the Israel statement seems pretty spot on
Can we concentrate on the USA. Can we stop the Billions in Middle East aid when we are 20 Trillion in debt?
Ok just sayin that it does not look like Trump is going to go to war over Palestine any time soon either
Wow. Trump is not even officially President Elect (that happens Dec 19th) and he is already breaking campaign promises. Maybe we can start a list:
1. Immediately repeal Obama Care - NOT. Maybe just some tweaks.
More to come, I'm sure. This is going to be fun to watch.
RAD If you didn't vote, you have no right to complain.
That's nonsense, this is America and we can complain anytime we want. I do believe we have something like a bill of rights and I don't recall reading anything about non-voters losing those rights.
But I wonder, how many rioters voted?
C'mon iJay, now you're just trying to cause trouble. So we own $20,000,000,000,000 in debt. We're a country of 325,000,000 people, surely we can afford it. Especially since the typical American household of 3 earns $54,000/year.
So what's that come out to? $20,000,000,000,000 of debt/325,000,000 people is just a measly $61,500 dollars of debt owned by every citizen of the country (all babies included!). Figuring the average household of 3, gosh that's only $185,000 per household. On average, of course.
With an average household income of $56,000 give or take, if every household did nothing for a little over THREE years - absolutely NOTHING except work to pay off the misdeeds of the past - the we'd be golden and good to go! No prob Bob!
But not to worry! You are not going to pay off that debt. Ever. As in never ever. That's what all the current game is all about, shifting the burden from today onto the next generation, who will attempt to do the same to the one that follows them, and so on and so on until it can't go on any longer. And when deficit spending is BUILT IN to the budget, guaranteeing spending above and beyond whatever budget our legislators claim is a good one, it should be patently obvious to anyone even remotely paying attention that the goal here is to ride this false-prosperity wave as far as we can, our kids and grandkids be damned.
That's our collective mindset. That's who we really are. Greedy, selfish Americans acting without restraint, choosing blinders over reality because if we accepted reality for what it is we probably would have trouble sleeping at night. Well, some of us would have a problem at least - the ones having even a modicum sense of being responsible stewards. The rest, the ones who close their eyes and shut off their brains daily, intentionally, would and do sleep just fine. And all it would take is a collective discussion on the subject to prioritize it. Where are the politicians again that want this discussion? Uh huh, nowhere to be found.
Ah never mind. I just need to shut up and get on the runaway train with nearly everyone else. Just wish I could, but my damned conscience keeps getting in the way... ;-)
"She email's me the morning after the election and asks if I voted for "him" .
I sad yeah of course. ( ...... yeah, that is sad ..)
At the end she asked me to never contact her again. That hurt".
........Skippy
What do you expect, supporting such a vile person.
Well, I disagree about Hillary and Israel. She was always kissing up to them. While I'm not a huge fan of Trump, at least he has already made it clear he is not beholden to their nation, but is concerned with OURS. He refused to do the traditional "run over to Israel to kiss azz and let them know their interests come first" tour, which I highly respect. Hillary, on the other hand, has always made sure to run over there and kiss major butt. You KNOW that leftist would have send American troops to be killed b/c she has no respect for our military. Trump hasn't yet been seen betraying his Christian religion by donning a yarmulke like Bill Clinton and Obama have. I'm sure Hillary would put one on, too, if she thought she could get away with it as a woman.
Trump is a Leftist RAD, that wasn't even the first walk back on campaign rhetoric.... already... typical process but more noticeable/remarkable given the extremity of the campaign plan statements....
pmnsk "What do you expect, supporting such a vile person."
Ah, so you're one of THEM. No surprise there.
Well well well....
GrubHub, the company who's CEO told his employees "anyone who voted for Trump should tender their resignations"... just lost $300 Million in stock share as a backlash... actions have consequences....
"That’s a little over $300 million dollars in share value gone, simply because the company’s CEO is a precious snowflake who isn’t mature enough to know when to keep his mouth shut.
Nevertheless, this should be a lesson that businesses would be wise to avoid entering the political sphere altogether unless they are prepared to reap the financial consequences their ideologically guided actions have sown, which generally aren’t good when you demonizeand alienate roughly half the country."
http://conservativetribune.com/ceo-bad-news-demanding-resign/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=PostTopSharingButtons&utm_content=2016-11-11&utm_campaign=websitesharingbuttons
That is why Trump has to be careful. He does not want to continually piss off half the country.
Our coddled snowflakes.
The article is spot on with today's youth in too many cases.If these young people need Play-doh.therapy dogs and coloring books to comfort them in their grief from this election,how will they cope when real problems occur later on?Therapists and antidepressants?
These people are 18 to in their 20's..This is what the everybody gets a trophy mentality causes,IMO.
Our little snowflakes should grow the **** up!However as long as they continue to be coddled as they are today,they won't for a long time and life will be a b*tch.
http://townhall.com/columnists/michaelbrown/2016/11/12/the-coddled-generation-that-wasnt-taught-to-grow-up-n2244704
Let's see if he gets anywhere with draining the swamp -> Term Limits. McConnell needs to be drained today as he has gone on record that he will not bring term limits to the floor for a vote. He (McConnell) said we already have term limits in the form of elections. With a disconnect like this, we will get nowhere on this...
"What do you expect, supporting such a vile person."
So you find it totally okay for someone to have harsh feelings, in this case have so much hatred to end a friendship because of a single vote.....sorry to say, but you ARE part of the problem.
I think it's time for people to seriously start looking at them selves here. Being angry because Trump won, by quite a bit I might add, to the point of taking angry actions is just putting yourself in the same melting pot that you originally tried to point at Trump supporters. The same goes vice versa if you had planned on protesting Hilary's winning.
Trying to condone actions to "If Trump would have won there also would have been protests" is just silly. All it goes to show, even if that assumption was true, is how divided our nation is. We need to work on this aspect, not on pointing fingers, and not on signing silly petitions.
Even if a petition was to work....then by your logic, the Trump supporters would be protesting.....so where is the win, other then just dividing our country even more?
"GrubHub... just lost $300 Million in stock"
All while the rest of the stock market is hitting record highs...
The CEO doesn't care, he sold off his stake the day before, as I posted above.
Sounds like a nice time for a few shareholder lawsuits against him.
As I hear more and more coddled and disconnected celebrities tell half the country how stupid and racist they are I'm starting to believe that most of them weren't upset that Hillary lost.What really bothers them is that they weren't as influential and enlightened as they thought, their adoring public didn't quite adore them, and that's what really rankles them. Not that it's a true barometer of one's intelligence but a lot of these nimrod's so willing to pass along their ideas about how the rest of us should live and act didn't even finish high school. one thing is for sure at least have their audience doesn't agree with them so if they want to continue the very affluent lifestyles they're accustomed to we don't need to hear you speak out, just continue to perform and maybe we'll continue to pay for your movies and concerts.
The protests will be over soon as most the community organizer jobs end this month. I did a search and found thousands, with most the hatred and bigotry ending this week.
https://850.dayforcehcm.com/CandidatePortal/en-US/communityoutreach/Posting/View/159
one-eyed poacher Ah the return of the Social Justice warrior - the illiberal authoritarians who like to morally police society.
SJW's have, unfortunately, risen to power in this country over the last 8 years - specifically in the universities and human resource areas of the country. Over the last 18-24 months they have poisoned discourse by shaming any opinion that isn't theirs and gotten away with it. The rest of us are forced to conform to "Think as you want, but behave like others" despite having perfectly logical arguments in order to remain employed and have relationships with others.
It works like this - as a hetero-sexual caucasian (more so if your male) your opinions are always met with shaming. If you don't agree word for word with the SJW's, they will call you racist, sexist, and homophobic - and God help you if you are in a position to be in this situation across a desk at work. Now that Trump is president elect and they are feeling push back they want to claim to want to be morally superior with the goal of compromise. I for one find it disingenuous.
There would have been no tolerance or quarter given to conservatives had the election gone the other way. These manipulative individuals will use whatever strategy it takes to win - and by that I mean force you to live by their "clearly higher moral standard" They are duplicitous individuals that will try to enamor themselves to you so you don't see them as a threat until such time as they can cut your throat.
I invite you to watch the following video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLG9g7BcjKs
It's about 6 minutes long but if you're lazy, skip to 3:23.
In a way, Skippy, I agree with your statement. I think particularly over the last four years there has been an intense push toward ultimate political correctness, so much in fact that it has become grating to many. Social changes take time; they don't happen overnight. And when celebrities and the politically correct are constantly pushing on people that you must accept every new flavor of diversity, even to the point of silliness or else they just won't listen to you anymore, something has gone wrong. Case in point: When students at my alma mater found out their commencement speaker was going to be Condoleeza Rice, they protested loudly and refused to have her. That refusal to listen to or even legitimize her existence is just one example of many that have caused a large chunk of this country to push back. Democrats need to examine not only how they lost, but why.
Yep - And we need not to call each other names but listen to why someone feels that way before they express themselves in a voting booth
Gadfly 
"Trump won, by quite a bit I might add" Really? No rose colored glasses on there? Because my count shows him in the bottom quintile on the Presidential landslide scale although Carter did win by a lesser margin.....
But I enjoy the blame game many continue playing targeting broad groups and affinities that are " feeling push back" now that Trump is to be President.
Again, the results are in, you win, how about focusing on the future instead of blaming people for your present.
Gadfly, Yes. And I agree that the cancelling of class and exams at many colleges and Universities is ridiculous as well. What are you teaching students at that point? Part of the college experience was and should still be preparing students for adulthood....an adulthood where things aren't always going to go your way and where when adversity strikes, you get up the next morning, dust yourself off, and get to work. A lot has changed in the 16 years since I graduated.
SD because to come together as a nation we need to evaluate how we got here - or are lessons learned unimportant to you?
First it's just some classes like when they say classes cancelled or midterms cancelled, usually it means a handful were shuffled around. Hey, it was a late night without a lot of studying being done on either side of the political fence.
It seems we are living in a twitter world where someone twitters my exam was moved and next thing you know its: YALE CANCELS MIDTERMS DUE TO TRUMP.
Second, gee, in my multiple decades of work, I have had many an "event' cancelled or moved due to internal as well as external reasons.
http://www.snopes.com/yale-cancels-midterms-after-students-were-upset-by-trumps-win/
We all just need to lighten up on the twitter-jerk reactions to everything. Probably won't happen now that we have a Twitterer-in-Chief. Next innovation: Daily Twitter-side Chats.
I have to disagree with you about Dr. Rice. Rutgers was going to honor her and people in the community objected. There's nothing wrong with that. I would agree with you if it were just a speaking engagement.
A friend sent this to me. Sums it up good I think.
Dear Democrats and Liberals,
I'm noticing that a lot of you aren't graciously accepting the fact that your candidate lost. In fact you seem to be posting even more hateful things about those of us who voted for Trump.
Some of you are apparently "triggered". Because you are posting how "sick" you feel about the results.
How did this happen you ask.
You created "us" when you attacked our freedom of speech.
You created "us" when you attacked our right to bear arms.
You created "us" when you attacked our Christian beliefs.
You created "us" when you constantly referred to us as racists.
You created "us" when you constantly called us xenophobic.
You created "us" when you told us to get on board or get out of the way.
You created "us" when you forced us to buy health care and then financially penalized us for not participating.
You created "us" when you allowed our jobs to continue to leave our country.
You created "us" when you attacked our flag.
You created "us" when you confused women's rights with feminism.
You created "us" when you began to emasculate men.
You created "us" when you decided to make our children soft.
You created "us" when you decided to vote for progressive ideals.
You created "us" when you attacked our way of life.
You created "us" when you decided to let our government get out of control.
"You" created "us" the silent majority.
And we became fed up and we pushed back and spoke up.
And we did it with ballots, not bullets.
Sites like Snopes and other alleged fact finders are so far left,it's ridiculous.
Snopes can spin all the want but...
O'Reilly had two students on his show.One was from Yale and the other was a female from another Ivy League school of which I don't recall.Both said exams were cancelled in some classes .
Philliesman, you either have a wise friend or a good researcher. Either way, thank you for sharing that.
Based upon acreage of this great country he won be an overwhelming amount. Based upon total votes he lost. Based upon the Electoral College, he won...
Eh as absentee ballots are being counted that's becoming less the case.
HG - we get you think trump is vile - thanks for the contribution. Any thoughts on how we can move forward as a country together?
My how the tune has changed: “He lost the popular vote by a lot and won the election. We should have a revolution in this country! The phoney electoral college made a laughing stock out of our nation. The loser one! We can’t let this happen. We should march on Washington and stop this travesty. Our nation is totally divided! More votes equals a loss…revolution! This election is a total sham and a travesty. We are not a democracy! Our country is now in serious and unprecedented trouble…like never before. The electoral college is a disaster for a democracy.” - Donald J Trump, November 2012
And this.... Sheriff David Clarke, a trump surrogate and supporter called for an uprising “pitchforks and torches” against the government and media if trump was to lose. And ... Scottie Nell Hughes also called for riots, saying “riots are not necessarily a bad thing.”
Bonv Republicrats Bonv, Republicrats.
What possible result could there be when people look at elections as a team sport? Red vs Blue, Good vs Bad, sweet old lady vs mean old man?
The fan(atic)s on both sides will react just as crazy sports fans do! And just like crazed sports fans some will get out of control no matter the team.
"That is why Trump has to be careful. He does not want to continually piss off half the country."
Kinda like Obama as been doing for the past eight years? Or Bush before him? Or Clinton, or Bush Sr, and so on?
See, this is the ramifications of team politics where each side takes power and then *forces* their views on the other side via laws, taxation, societal guilt, etc. Republicrats-all the same.
You would think liberals would be more understanding.....especially with their son.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/11/12/video-mom-punishing-son-8-over-school-trump-vote-leads-to-investigation.html
My take (for the umpteeth million time lol) is that all this stuff is symptomatic of the real problem of how our economic system is structured. i.e.
https://realinvestmentadvice.com/the-inconvenient-truth-behind-donald-trumps-victory/
Happiest,
"No, the *problem* is Trump.
He is a vile person."
So since he is a vile person in your opinion, it is okay for Hilary supporters to also be vile?????
This logic makes ZERO sense
You are upset someone is '"vile" so in turn be vile yourself......uh.....right......
Darrin --
Don't know what the heck you're talking about.
I never said Hillary supporters are vile.
You sound like you're losing it.
I'm horrified that Clinton and/or Obama have not stepped forward and pleaded with the protesters to stop the violence!
I think she likes it, she's flattered by it.
You may want to re read that statement i made....and keep doing so until you understand it, not really that complicated.
I could not be happier! Finally after a terribly embarrassing 8 years...I can finally say I will proud to be an American again! After Jan 1st that is! I can't wait for president Trump to restore America to a super power! I can finally have pride in my country again! Thank you God for saving America from the Clinton crime family! Now the world will stop laughing at America...we will no longer be the laughing stock of the world!! Hallelujah!
Wrong Darrin.
Trump is the vile one --- think about what he has said during the campaign --- it's not really that complicated to understand.
Browning - You got it backwards --- America is now the laughing stock of the world.
Happiest- I don't like Trump either, but you of all people have the nerve to complain that someone else is vile? If that ain't the pot calling the kettle black than I don't know what is. Lol!
positive ahhh the Darrin and Happiest Girl war has invaded another thread.
you two lovebirds really need to just get a room already :)
4catmom How are some Hilary supporters not vile?
Violently protesting, beating trump supporters, and calling for death ti Trump is in no way, shape, or form vile?
You just said above that you agreed with someones rash actions of defrending some just because of their political vote.
You need to re think your arguments.
Sorry scotto....i am over and out.....
Hilary is probably crooked. Hilary is a liar - the fact checkers at every debate proved this. But while she lied, Trump lied more often and made wilderly claims, most without any basis in reality, while the fact checkers said most of HRC's lies are rooted in truth, or were once true. The Donald lies about things he has said on twitter that can be checked instantly. I know because I did it during the debates.
Hillary has said some bad things ("deplorables" - but upon reading this thread, I tend to agree with her). Trump tops everything bad she's said in her entire life on a daily basis.
NY Times published an article of insults, compiled entirely from his twitter feed.
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/01/28/upshot/donald-trump-twitter-insults.html
A quick search shows "Crooked" shows up 201 times on that page.
Beyond the lies, Trump has said he can sexually assault women because he's a star. How the hell can any of you human beings support a guy who has said that? I have smacked friends who have said much tamer things (and things that were not illegal)
Trump invited reporters to make fun of a woman and watch her work out because she gained weight.
Trump has said mexicans coming to this country are rapists and drug dealers. (Note: Not ALL mexicans). He also implied Mexico is sending them, not that any come of their own free will.
Trump seems to never be able to say anything without black people without saying inner cities (Seriously, watch the debates). In his mind if you're black, you live in an inner city.
The list goes on...and on...and on, for most of his 70 years on this planet.
There has never been a more wretched hive of scum and villainy than Donald Trump, except of course, for some of his supporters.
And to the "US". We didn't create you. You were always there, lurking in the shadows, hiding your true feelings because they had no place in a civilized world. Trump came along and lifted up the rock. Below the dirt and worms, he found the alt right and it's clear you can find a bunch of them in Hackettstown.
We, the progressives, liberals and even the conservative left, tried to make life better for everyone by giving everyone choice, by pushing for guaranteed healthcare so you can all give healthy lives (Obama care did not go as planned, but whose fault is that after all - the right obstructionists). We want you to have your guns. We want you to have your religion, your christianity, your freedom of speech (we love this one dearly too). We didn't tell you to raise your kids soft, we want you to have the choice in how to raise them. We didn't attack your way of life, you way of life is slowly dying because you refuse to evolve.
Your jobs aren't all going to other countries, they're being replaced with robots and technology. You could learn and adapt. Start your own business, learn a new skill or trade, but you'd rather turn the whole country into a redneck welfare state than better yourselves.
"You created "us" when you decided to vote for progressive ideals."
You attack us for voting for progressive ideas? Ideas that will benefit you as well as us? You mean, we're allowed to vote when you support conservative ideas or if we don't vote, but if our opinion differs than yours we are not allowed to vote? Sweet flying spaghetti monster in the sky, that is absolutely wrong, immoral and un-American to say that.
And then you call us crybabies. You tell us to leave the country because we have new ideas, because we want change, just like you, because we try to make progress to fix the many many problems this country has, and then you refuse to make the change yourself.
We've tried to make change. We've tried to make progress. You obstruct us, and now are turning back the clock on what has been made. You push your views on all of us, while we tried to create a world we could all live in. You stand behind a monster who has all his life, mistreated hard working people, like you claim to be. You stand behind a man who has singlehandedly created a culture of violence in our once great Country. You're right. We do need to Make America Great Again. This is why we protest.
Hardship, fear, and lack of trust has created "We", which means "All of us". Let us not allow whoever is in office divide us anymore. I assume we can agree that we all want safety, a better economy and a little peace of mind.
We can't change who was elected, but we can change our division.
Soros should keep paying his protestors 15 bucks an hour to an mess up America & Hillary should keep going down on Huma...if she is alive or dead - Bill should keep going on Jeffrey Epstein's plane and molesting kids.
You liberals are lost...its over...its so over- bitches!
Really what are you fighting for ....nothing in the end!
Corruption - sexual deviancy-your old gal wont even be around if they try and steal the Electoral College...like Rats off a sinking ship!
Peace out
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Epstein
When the left says the right is morons. They're talking about you. All of you. And they're not wrong.
I don't know about every liberal, but I'm fighting for a better life for me and my fellow man, even you idiots.
Great posts, alpha 1 beta! Remember, Warren county has been traditionally "red". These Trump supporters are never going to change their points to view. In their eyes, this man can do no wrong. This was proved when he was elected .(even though,once again, the popular vote proved more people wanted Clinton)
Hillary did a great job voicing her opinions on women, children, LGBTcommunity and minorities, however, she dwelled on those subjects, way more than talking about jobs, taxing the ultra wealthy more, and appealing to the white, blue collar workers. Focused just a little too much on women becoming successful, but should've made her main focus all working men and women, and all children, having the ability to be whatever they want, not just to little girls. Whilst I think those are great areas of improvement, it doesn't resonate with everyone. She should've made her MAIN focus on healthcare, for all, jobs and taxing the ultra wealthy, proportionally. Staying on the Bernie train, instead of the Obama train (and I loved what Obama has done for the country), would've helped, as with every presidential race, people want some sort of change. She shouldn't have wasted her money with negative Trump ads. The media did that, for the last year, free! The "rigged" media and Twitter, gave Trump this opportunity to "Make America HATE again".... oops, I mean great...LOL
Anyway... people are not going to change the way they think. Trump is a maniac that scares the hell out of me, but I have no choice but to give him a chance.
"These Trump supporters are never going to change their points to view. In their eyes, this man can do no wrong."
Ditto Obama & Hillary.
I understand being upset that you lost, but all the riots, "rape Melania" signs, property destruction, et al, only make the left seem INTOLERANT, and besides the fact very sore losers and crybabies.
No riots when Obama won - with fewer states than Trump had on tuesday- in either '08 or '12. The left is showing what hateful, intolerant, foot-stomping, 2-year-olds they really are. If you think this tactic will HELP your cause at all, be it 4 or 8 years from now, I think you will find you are sorely mistaken. Time to get some decent leadership in the democrat party and start coming back towards the middle- because you're so far left you're about to fall off the edge of the world.
Or don't- that would fine too, because it'll just keep America tacking right, which is desperately needs to do do even get back to the middle, where it belongs.
" but you of all people have the nerve to complain that someone else is vile? If that ain't the pot calling the kettle black than I don't know what is. Lol!"
+1
The Man I can't believe people are still carrying on about this almost a week later. Time to get on with your lives. Can't change the outcome now
Missrx Middle America racist states voted for Trump and thats it. I guess if you dont have a daughter or have respect for woman,or people of another color you're happy with the result. His former advisor ,Gov Christie,blamed the bridge scandal on his female aid and he just raised the gas tax. Yeah great choices so far by Trump. Either way hes our President and hopefully he just doesn't bring in all his CEO buddies. But he goes with his gut,yeah that's how I want the leader of our country making decisions.
47ladybug 
This whole area is white trash . Even M&M doesn't get involved in the community,except for a fair that they give away a few bags of candy.
People care so much,how about cleaning up Main St and bringing business here. Not another Spanish restaurant or store. The same people Trump is trying to kick out of our country are lined up on Main Street every morning waiting for their ride to cut your lawns,and get paid cash under the table while we pay taxes. That just started i guess right? Sheep.
"We want you to have...", repeated how many times in your post? Think about what mindset would even type a response from that perspective.
Have you ever stopped to consider that believing *you* have a right to dictate the behavior of others, *you* have the right to control their lives through legal means, and *you* outright telling them that they are stupid beyond imagination because they choose to view the world differently than you, that it is *you* who may be received negatively, and pretty harshly at that?
In fact, that's precicely what was described above by another poster. I've called it arrogance on the part of Obama before, his looking down his nose at those who disagree with him. But it's not just him, it's the progressive mindset in general, and that is not only ignorant but extremely dangerous as well. What you're seeing now is some of the results of that mindset. As they say, you reap what you sow.
So here's a yes or no question for everyone:
Do you truly believe that, in our society, the majority is entitled to impose their will on the minority?
Think long and hard about your answer, because sometimes you'll be in the majority and sometimes in the minority. My answer is no, never. The way we should treat each other is with respect, as equals with different perspectives, allowing everyone to live their lives as they see fit unless they bring harm to others, then society steps in with laws to deal with it.
Trump is not a kind and gentle soul. His problem is that he wears it on his sleeve. Hillary is not a kind and gentle soul. Her problem is that she hides it from view to better manipulate people into putting her in power.
Republicrats just suck, period.
"Do you truly believe that, in our society, the majority is entitled to impose their will on the minority? "
Which is exactly why were are a REPUBLIC, and not a democracy. The electoral college was devised to prohibit mob rule.
"The reason that the Constitution calls for this extra layer, rather than just providing for the direct election of the president, is that most of the nation’s founders were actually rather afraid of democracy. James Madison worried about what he called “factions,” which he defined as groups of citizens who have a common interest in some proposal that would either violate the rights of other citizens or would harm the nation as a whole. Madison’s fear – which Alexis de Tocqueville later dubbed “the tyranny of the majority” – was that a faction could grow to encompass more than 50 percent of the population, at which point it could “sacrifice to its ruling passion or interest both the public good and the rights of other citizens.” Madison has a solution for tyranny of the majority: “A republic, by which I mean a government in which the scheme of representation takes place, opens a different prospect, and promises the cure for which we are seeking.”
cat lover "TRUMP keeping Obama care??"
I love how the media is already spinning this. Trump said he would "look at" Obama's suggestions on two specific items, that's it.
Just like anyone else would do to keep the peace during the transition period. There's nothing Trump can change at *this* moment so he's just biding his time.
All changes to Obamacare have to come from Congress anyway, so whatever bills they finalize are the ones he will sign.
Final thought for the morning about how to better understand all the diviciveness, and this applies to every single one of us regardless of political bent:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9Y17YaZRRvY
We will never, ever live in a society where everyone is the same.
alpha1beta - "We, the progressives, liberals and even the conservative left, tried to make life better for everyone"
What is your definition of 'progressive' please? When you call yourself a 'progressive' what does that mean to you, exactly? What are your core principles?
PREDATOR Trump's first mistake.
How can three of his kids, supposed leaders of TrumpCo, be part of the advisory team to select the next group to lead the nation?
Is that arm's length for Trump, his kids, and his company?
Or does that give TrumpCo a competitive advantage by being insider's picking the leaders who will regulate civilian and business life alike? I mean if you're a international hospitality business, isn't advising on who will be ambassador to countries you want to do business with a competitive advantage or those hospitality businesses that don't have the same inside track?
Imagine your feelings if the Clinton transition advisory team had Chelsey, Bill, and George Soros on the team.......
When is Trump going to cut the ties and be arm's length from all TrumpCo decision makers? Ans: never.
Ooops. sorry, make that four ---- his SIL is on the team too. Not to mention FL's AG that Trump paid off to avoid another Trump U state lawsuit...... Can't even imagine what he might be paying off there.
Meanwhile expect TrumpCo to settle the Trump U case just to move on. Wonder who's decision that will be: the kids, the Duck, or the entire paddling.
Blind trust --- no way. Arm's length --- not like this.
There is no requirement that a president divest control of any companies while in office, arm's length, blind, or otherwise.
You are correct Mark, I have said as much.
However, like taxes, it has become common place for those Presidents with active investments or businesses to avoid any appearance of conflict of interest.
But sure, it's as legal as any of Obama's Executive Orders.
Doesn't make it right, but like I said, as President, Trump will never be at arm's length from his business concerns.
It's also become commonplace to assume someone is a racist mysogynist bigot simply based on their voting for Trump... doesn't make it true.
Just want to share the following, which I think is an interesting take.
In today's Daily News, Linda Stasi, under a sub-headline "The Trump I know needs to stand up now" and a picture of herself with Trump and Melania, has an opinion piece that includes the following paragraph:
"I've personally known The Donald for 25 years and the man I know has little to do with the vile cartoon character he created in order to win."
Food for thought.
jd2- on that line, there is a not small part of me that wonders how much of his entire campaign was a carefully planned out game... There are several times he was criticized for doing something "insane" which turned out to be a move that backed his opponent into a corner that they didn't even realize was there... Most notably forcing every other republican to take a stance that they would support the eventual nominee by saying he would not. As well as forcing Hillary (and every media outlet) to stand up and say they would accept the election results, full stop, by not saying he would.
If it's true, it'd be impressive, because the outsider really did beat every single person at their own game (politics). But then again, in my experience, the people you find in government/non-profit are those who couldn't make it in the for profit world, so maybe it's not all that surprising.
"Obama didn't have a blind trust for his investments." Again you are correct Mark. However, Obama had nothing really to put into a blind trust, nothing to manage, no active investments or businesses. Nothing that he had was an liquid asset, business, or investment. He had some index mutuals and treasury notes. No decisions to be made, no decision would necessarily affect.
Trump on the other hand has numerous international businesses, lots of liquid assets, a huge portfolio, and the like.
There is no way that he is setting up a blind trust. Not even close to the definiton and anyone who uses the term is just flat out wrong.
Already we see that he is not even at arm's length. His kids have the leading block vote for all Trump appointments to run the government. The same people who supposedly run Trump International will be the majority vote on who runs our government.
So even if not illegal, the perception of a conflict of interest should be very high on this one even at this early date before he has legally taken office.
JD2: "Food for thought" is that Trump creates these characters for our consumption.
alpha1beta - Your empathy for Trump's alleged "victims" is a thinly-disguised attempt position yourself as morally superior. Stop pushing your idealistic moral agenda based on a hierarchy of oppression-based status. Your approach isn't to help the weak or disadvantaged, it's to attack the strong. Admit it for what it is.
Guess what - you lost your "free ticket to be toxic". "I'm offended. Change everything about yourself to suit me!" All you and those like you are doing is fueling victim mentality and dependency amongst your constituents. Stop with the weaponized emotions and the righteous indignation.
"I have smacked friends who have said much tamer things (and things that were not illegal)" - but we are forwarding the culture of violence? Check your feminist privilege sweetie.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/giuliani-advises-trump-put-businesses-blind-trust-good/story?id=43493600
Ivanka, Don Jr., and Eric, either need to run his business or be in the administration.. I agree it creates the appearance of impropriety while still being legal
skippy- If I were ever home and had free time, I'd say we should go out for a beer...
Just a thought on this notion that Trump is reversing his position on Obamacare...
Trump has always said, from the beginning. "We are going to repeal and REPLACE Obamacare". He never hid the fact he was going to put forth his own health care plan and in fact mentioned it frequently. Age of coverage & pre-existing conditions are things that any health care plan would have to deal with.
I'm not a fan of Obamacare or the idea of Trumpcare, but I fail to see how Trump is reversing his position on this...he's said all along he was going to replace Obamacare with something.
sparksjbc1964 I've lived here for 5 years. Guess that explains it. Also, I think you're dead on with HRC - She picked the wrong topics to fight for, she should have stuck with Bernie's ideas.
Ditto with Obama and Hillary? I voted Obama twice, and in the last 3 years I've come to regret that. (Snowden / NSA Spying stuff was a big part of it) While he's a respectable guy, I've come more and more to disagree with him. Hillary had no supporters (Seriously, find a Hillary sign anywhere!) and I only support her in the sense that If I can't have Coke (Bernie) I'll take Pepsi (HRC) instead of battery acid (Trump).
And there are parts of the left going way too far, fighting, destroying property in riots. I don't defend or condone them, but I understand their fear. I do wonder if they all voted...
JeffersonRepub: We're not saying any of you are racist or anything else for voting Trump, just that you were able to overlook those things.
The most absurd fact to me is that Trump said he would jail HRC. He didn't say she'd stand trial (Until much later). As a nation, we are surely better than that. Of the whole election, that may be the single most terrifying thing I've heard. I'm sure one of you will report me to the Trump police.
I'm a morally conservative, socially liberal, progressive. At the core, I believe we need to do everything we can to better the lives of every person. I believe we need to stay open to new ideas and be willing to try them, knowing some will fail and what worked before may not continue to work now; in technology and adaptation, as it tends to make our lives better; in having more personal choice, even when my morals disagree with the choices you make. (I'm anti-legalized pot, but I believe you should have the right to make the choice yourself, until your choice interferes with someone else's rights)
Apparently my write up of what I believe is too long for this site. I've been working on variations of it as a doctrine of how I live for a long time, so I will post it somewhere if you actually care enough to want to read it.
Skippy, One, I get the feeling you think I'm a woman. I'm a straight white man. (I wonder who else thought that?) I work hard for a small company, I do pretty good for myself, because I worked hard and spend most of my free time learning new skills.
By all polls and models, stereotypically I would be a Trump supporter. I came from a middle class, borderline poor family and while I am not religious, my family is and one of my direct ancestors who shares my name, founded a catholic church that my family still goes to (Mind you, my family does not live in Warren county)
As far as the I have smacked friends comment, I have given friends a decent whack and told them they've gone too far. It's one thing to say someone is beautiful, hot, etc, it's another to say you'd be willing to cheat or would cross into illegal territory, and that's where I draw the line.
I want healthcare to be a right, if you don't want it, you can waive that right. I don't go to church and don't ever want to, but I want you to be able to go to any church you can, anytime and as often as you want. I want any sane person to be able to have guns, just a slightly more in depth process to get them.
Overall, Skippy, I want a world where you can live the kind of life you want, I can live the life I want, and we don't have to deal with each other.
Thank you a1b for that. I believe most 'normal folk' are closer in spirit then we are led to believe.
Could not agree more with - " I want a world where you can live the kind of life you want, I can live the life I want, and we don't have to deal with each other." I express that sentiment as 'I have the right to be left alone' :)
What puts me off is the over zealous practice (by some) of "I believe we need to do everything we can to better the lives of every person". I believe that some, in power, overstep their bounds, through regulation and legislation, to force their definition of a 'better life' on us. I get to decide what a better life is for me as long as I'm not infringing on others rights.
I believe with all my heart that "all men (and women!) are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness"
Ok... Will the real alpha1beta please stand up.
That was a good post though. I now understand where you are coming from.
Yes, a very good post, but quite different from the previous. I guess alpha had some time to calm down and think about things. Happens to all of us. Lol
Do You Know Someone Suffering From Trump Acceptance Resistance Disorder (TARD)? Know the Signs, Spot the Symptoms, Save a Life
Trump Acceptance Resistance Disorder is a pattern of pathologically dissociative and psychotic behavior, first observed in December of 2000. The disorder went visually dormant for a number of years until a sudden epidemic outbreak in the late hours of November 8th 2016, and has been increasing in severity with passing time. Sufferers of Trump Acceptance Resistance Disorder often exhibit pronounced cognitive dissonance, sudden bouts of rage, uncontrollable crying, suicidal ideation, and extreme butthurt.
Signs and Symptoms:
People with Trump Acceptance Resistance Disorder are characterized by a persistent unwillingness to accept that Donald Trump is going to Make America Great Again. Individual sufferers often display signs of paranoia and delusion; in acute cases psychotic episodes have been observed. Trump Acceptance Resistance Disorder is different from being upset about the results of the 2016 presidential election; People with TARD are unwilling or unable to accept reality, despite irrefutable evidence.
According to the DSM-V (Diagnostic Manual and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders), individuals with TARD exhibit most or all of the following symptoms:
-Telling others they are moving to Canada
-Fixated on fantasies about the Electoral College
-Protesting an election no credible source contests the outcome of
-Exclamations that “Someone” should do “Something”
-Sudden weight gain
-Acute change in demeanor from pompous and arrogant to fearful and combative
-Claim that anyone who disagrees with them is some combination of Racist, Sexist, Bigoted, Homophobic, and Actually Hitler
-Insist rioting and killing is the only pathway to peace and love
-Resist any effort to be consoled with a trophy for finishing 2nd
Causes and Mechanisms:
Trump Acceptance Resistance Disorder was directly caused by the election of Donald Trump as President of the United States of America. For many, both in America and worldwide, this was a shocking and unexpected outcome; their preferred news sources having failed to inform them that the alternative candidate was a criminal parasite in such ill health she got chucked into the back of a van like a kidnap victim. They failed to realize their preferred candidate committed numerous felonies and was tried and convicted as "unfit" to lead this nation in the Court of Public Opinion.
Research is ongoing, but TARD appears to correlate closely with the following environmental and behavioral factors:
-Membership in the Democratic party
-Identifying as a Feminist
-Currently enrolled in college waiting for college to be free, and/or
Possession of a Liberal Arts college degree
-Cuckoldry
-Displays any level of hypocrisy
-Deflects any level of facts or truth to an unrelated topic
-Living in a densely populated metropolitan area
-Massive student debt
-Spotty or non-existent work history
-Hipsterism
Diagnosis:
Diagnosis of Trump Acceptance Resistance Disorder is straightforward. Ask the patient if Donald Trump is going to be the Next President of the United States of America. Some patients will become agitated, and may attempt to deflect. It’s critical you press them on the issue, even if they start babbling about ‘muh triggers’. A sufferer of TARD will begin to ramble incoherently, often displaying three or more of the symptoms within a short period of time.
Co- morbidity:
A diagnosis of Trump Acceptance Resistance Disorder is highly comorbid with Paraphilic Infantilism, Emotional Eating, Autism Spectrum, Bush Derangement Syndrome, and adult bed wetting.
Treatment:
The only known effective treatment is exposure therapy. The patient must be repeatedly exposed to reality, and should wear a "Make America Great Again" hat as long as they are able to tolerate it. Each exposure should increase in length, after a week the patient should be encouraged to be seen in public wearing the MAGA hat. Coach the patient to refer to Donald Trump as President-Elect Trump.
Patients with TARD are very resistant to treatment, and dangerous in large groups. Any possibility of treatment requires that they be separated from their hive-mind support apparatus; they cannot begin the process of accepting reality in the presence of encouragement towards delusion and irrationality. Separation may require the assistance of law enforcement.
If you have a friend or loved one suffering from TARD, urge them to seek treatment. Treatment MUST begin with co-existing and being inclusive to the ENTIRE world around them. Together we can beat this scourge, and Make America Great Again!
"I'm a morally conservative, socially liberal, progressive."
Agreed with a lot of your last post a1b. Well, all except for the progressive part anyway.
I happen to take the live-and-let-live mantra to its fullest potential while many often pull up short when they realize that it means the necessary restraints wouldn't be just for the "other guy".
"Thank you a1b for that. I believe most 'normal folk' are closer in spirit then we are led to believe."
I agree completely and have conveyed similar sentiments in the past. And I think most recognize this truism with anything outside of two-party politics, which is one of the reasons why I repeatedly refer to politics as a team sport.
Ditto on the world where we can live separate lives have our own morality and remain separate- good post
I have to ask, what do you all think of the post-election Trump?
IMO, he's starting to act presidential, and showing some wisdom (Except his leadership team), but while I remain hopefully, I will keep a very keen eye on everything he does. If he acted like this for the last two years, I don't doubt he would win the popular vote too.
I think he is very adept in presenting what people want to hear at any given time and is taking advantage of this lame duck period to get the most of the shock and awe factor - ergo tto is already dead . While most of the country is still reeling from wtf just happened he is already maximizing his first 100 days
Ant the adult temper tantrum continues.....when they don't get their way, what else to do then to stomp your feet harder
http://www.kgw.com/news/local/anti-trump-protesters-march-for-fifth-straight-night/351400705
Too early to say. Personally not a fan of Rince Preibus, I'll hold off on any "judgement" until he picks his cabinet, at least. I just hope he doesn't allow Rince to turn his presidency into a RINO one, and he sticks to his guns on the issues that rally got him elected: job creation/economy, and border security/illegal immigration. I don't think Obamacare was as big an item, as popular as it was at his rallies when he would shout "repeal Obamacare!" I think most of his voters will be perfectly happy with him "tweaking" Obamacare, because it's not working as-is. IF they can get it functional and affordable- with NO MANDATE, I think that would be fine with most people.
+1 JR. Now that Hillary has been defeated, the next target should be the RINOs and the country club Republicans. In so much as they need to get in line with the issues that got Trump elected, not Trump compromising with them.
"Personally not a fan of Rince Preibus"
I don't really have an opinion either way, but if it puts Trump in the good graces of Congress (Ryan and McConnell wanted him to choose Preibus) it will make it much smoother to move Republican bills through quickly, rather than in-fighting among themselves.
I think with Bannon as strategist, Trump will still stick to the issues that got him elected, though. Certainly an interesting dynamic forming here...
Now I have respect for that, Trump turned down his salary as president
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/11/13/donald-trump-60-minutes-vacation-salary/93778704/
also, he has called for protesting to stop
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/donald-trump-tells-protestors-dont-afraid-calls-hate/story?id=43513069
Hoping this is a limited response
http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2016/11/14/trump-liberal-college-campuses-michigan-yale-glenn-reynolds-column/93765568/
Gotta love a good Republicrat...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/11/11/glenn-greenwald-trump-will-have-vast-powers-he-can-thank-democrats-for-them/
Honestly as a member of the left, the scariest thing here is that fact that the right control all the federal government (or will soon enough). With a man like Trump, this magnifies the fear of abuse or power and disregard for certain groups.
I feel like there should be a requirement to always have the non ruling group as a majority somewhere. I've said this during the Obama years as well. It would help keep a balance of power, give voice to whichever group is not in power and could really lead to some interesting debate and new ideas. Of course, having more than two parties on a national scale would also accomplish much of this. The only fear would be more gridlock, like the last 6 years.
Glen Greenwald says it like it is. I am more concerned with Trump's family and their influence on Donald. Yes Donald will not take a salary but his children could easily make an enormous fortune by their access to information and ability to steer this country from the top. So Darrin, respect Donald for passing on a salary but he knows that his children will do very well. This could make the Clinton Foundation corruption look trivial...
How Did The Media Miss Suburban Women Who Hate Hillary Clinton?
By Julie Kelly
NOVEMBER 14, 2016
.
http://thefederalist.com/2016/11/14/media-miss-suburban-women-hate-hillary-clinton/
Trying to save Skippy - No again. Each senator has a different schedule. They're staggered so not all of them are up at the same time. They're separated into three different "classes" of approx 1/3 each. (33 or 34)
GC http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2016/11/14/emanuel-tells-undocumented-immigrants-chicago-always-will-be-a-sanctuary-city/
Rham wants the undocumented to come to Chicago. The city will burn itself to the ground without federal or state funds. My prediction is that this tune changes the second it jeopardizes the Lucas Museum, teachers union payments or the Obama presidential library.
Not disagreeing with you and thanks for the info - but do you disagree thats why they are staggered? the point is that changes can be made in the legislative branch as a check to the executive branch during the presidents term.
Think some folks need to take off the "we're the underdog" hats and put on "we won, we're gonna make America great again" magnanimous in victory hats.
I mean after years of bashing all aspects of the process, the parties, and certain people. And with the past year's maniacal rantings against the same, do you really feel the loser's own, much less need to drop, things like:
"-Fixated on fantasies about the Electoral College
-Protesting an election no credible source contests the outcome of
-Exclamations that “Someone” should do “Something”
I think you are the inventor's of these emotions and now you feel bad that other's have adopted your ideas?
Did you really accuse those who disagree with you of "Cuckoldry?" Is this another one of your inventions that you are transferring to the other side? Perhaps you need to let your feelings out on this one......
Although I do give you credit for personally writing such a piece. Must have taken lots of time to be so inventive Darrin. Hats off for your creative efforts. Just wonder why you took the lib off libTARD?
I've realized that I'm having a harder time processing the long winded, convoluted, side winding posts since the election. I can barely process the NYTs Trump Transition articles.The Dems are rallying to take back Washington with mid term elections and to continue protesting up to and beyond inauguration day to remove Trump from the WH. The Hitler regime will be in the USA, according to the Dems. Already some NYTs posters are finding hiding places for their children in their home, awaiting the knock on the door..
"Think some folks need to take off the "we're the underdog" hats and put on "we won, we're gonna make America great again" magnanimous in victory hats. "
It doesn't matter: Republicrats are essentially the same when you take away the emotional layer. Systematically no difference whatsoever.
There's so much spin going on in the media right now - most likely because their inability to forecast the elections - why trust them for future predictions. They are all spewing nonsense
High Schoolers and Middle Schoolers out protesting by Trump Tower. Really, get their butts back in school, grow up, learn the process and then vote. Learn to accept defeat, you all don't win a trophy.
A great solution I did hear of, altho logistically impossible to do, would be to turn off the cell phone towers so no one would be able to take selfies of themselves at a protest rally. Most everyone would leave.
Well, the cameras would still work... and there's plenty of wifi available everywhere.
Didn't Apple look into remotely disabling cameras on the iPhones a while back? Not that I agree with that in the slightest, just bringing up the scary thought...
In previous versions of iOS they had a kill switch for lots of stuff - I think they gave that up in later versions because they did not want to be subpoenaed
Some of you think some of us are ridiculous to be scared of Trump and his people - well this quote seems frighteningly timely:
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
-Martin Niemöller
In 1937 he was arrested and eventually confined in Sachsenhausen and Dachau. He was released in 1945
Who's scared? Lately, I've seen a big increase in advertising for those "prepper" foods, the ones that have a 20 year shelf life. Both on Fox (surprisingly) and on CNN. I'm scared of this man, big time.
Fascists used to beat people up, now they use social shaming. It's still violence against opposition, just not physical. It is very appropriate that you say that - the Nazis were leftists. Just a slightly different brand of socialism with an emphasis on nationalism instead of classism. Marx and Engels were definitely an inspiration for Hitler and the others who began the NASDAP movement. They were anti-communist because they considered communists as ideological competitors, not because they were "opposites".
They never had anything to do with the right, which values the concept of the Republic and individualism. Nazis are collectivists, just like Communists are.
"Lenin is the greatest man, second only to Hitler, and that the difference between Communism and the Hitler faith is very slight."
Joseph Goebbels, The New York Times, “Hitlerite Riot in Berlin: Beer Glasses Fly When Speaker Compares Hitler to Lenin,” November 28, 1925 (Goebbels' speech Nov. 27, 1925)
http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2007/11/the_nazis_were_maxists.html
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22400142
Correlation not causation: the relationship between personality traits and political ideologies.Liberal political beliefs, not conservative ones, are actually linked to psychoticism.
So go ahead.. call Trump supporters Nazis or crazy again.
also for your reading pleasure -
Those foods have been advertised on TV for quite awhile. I started seeing them a few years ago on Christian channels... But it's not because of a man, it's because of the times, regardless of who is President.
4catmom any president who'd act anything like Hitler did would be assassinated. Germany allowed Hitler in because they were at rock bottom. Not going to happen here, so go have a glass of wine when you get home from work and relax...
Totally serious. I guess some of you are choosing to skip reading certain news reports........and I assume you've never been subject to any racist, anti-semitic, or other forms of vile discrimination. It's happening, in Trump's name around the country.
You all take a breath and look what's starting to happen around and about.
I sure hope you're right but I don't feel very confident about that..........There has been plenty of hate spewed around here already.
It's also happening against trump all over the country - except those folks get paid at least
Metsman now providing astute historical political commentary. Skippy implying that every anti- Trump protester is a paid plant.
Just another day in HL World.
SD, although I appreciate your praise, as I cited in the end, that was from Facebook.
Stocks are already rising record highs since he won. The change in this country is going to be astronomical. You should be very scared, if your not a proud american.
Agreed 4catmom - but there seems to be a lack in critical thinking these days so not terribly shocking.
You honestly have not heard that Soros is funding these protests, and all you have seen in the news is discriminatory behavior and violence by trump supporters? What color is the sky in bizarro world?
Even if the anti-trump protesters are not being paid - which a great many of them are - they're criminals - so is anyone committing violent and destructive acts in trumps name. How dare you claim that they are victims and this is some how warranted behavior.
And yes bonv - we lack critical thinking skills - tell yourself that to resolve the cognitive dissonance.
What will be said/recanted when it turns out that Trump did amazing things during his presidency??
change? The stack of potential Trump appointees certainly argues for a change such that governance is in big business' hands... well, likely always has been to some degree, but now so very blatant and clear. The "minority" that is well supported and protected..... the "1%."
"governance is in big business' hands... well, likely always has been to some degree, but now so very blatant and clear"
Well, IMO it has been trending in the same direction for years and is not just a consequence of a Trump Presidency (that hasn't even begun). Lots and lots and lots of data points have showed this trend going on for at least 40 years, not coincidentally taking off when the restraint of our monetary system was unshackled in the early 1970's. Follow the money...
"And yes bonv - we lack critical thinking skills - tell yourself that to resolve the cognitive dissonance."
Agreed, but that statement applies to ALL of us and is something we should all continually work toward acknowledging and addressing. I know it sounds silly, but if we apply the scientific method to our beliefs and we would probably be surprised at what we discover.
I'm just enjoying the hell out this. The blind hypocrisy of the left being shown all through the election season, and now the foot stomping afterward. Even the hypocrisy of protesting hate and violence with...hate and violence. I thought lefties were pacifist? LOL
Yes, I was once a foot stomper. I have grown wiser. Some of you need to do the same. I had said if Clinton won, that would be it for me- I'd wash my hands of the whole corrupt mess. I'm sure many of you don't believe me, but that's of no concern to me. Trump has a chance to pull us back from the brink, and you will see from me in coming years honesty- not hypocrisy- in his efforts. I think you will find that to be true of many Trump supporters. Alot of us voted for him precisely TO pull the country back from the brink... and if he starts not delivering on campaign promises (and I'm talking about HIM not delivering; not congress stopping him), you can bet those voters will be the FIRST ones to vote him out. I think you will find the Trump voters be the biggest "watchdog" of their own candidate... if Trump turns on them, they will turn on him.... unlike the standard party-line voter of today.
But I will admit, since we're talking honesty, I am enjoying the hell out the this. The polls got it wrong (on purpose, IMO), the (propagandized) media got it wrong, and everyone in DC got it wrong. The propaganda/corruption in the election process was defeated. It gives me faith that the people haven't given up on the greatness America always has been, and that the propagandized media CAN be overcome. I find it hilarious that Fox News, who has for several years now backed off from their right-wing balance of all the other news networks, immediately swung back to the right almost the MOMENT they realized Trump was going to win. It's like somewhere around midnight on election day, they went from FoxCNN to FoxNews1996. And they call THAT "journalism"? Oh well, at least they'll now, once again, be the counterweight to the big 3 and CNN.
And yes, I am glad the 2A won't have to be worried about for the next 4 years. NJ is of course a different story, but regarding the federal govt, 2A has been taken off the target range.
On a side note, I saw where Ron Paul admitted he voted for his son LOL.
"I think you will find the Trump voters be the biggest "watchdog" of their own candidate... if Trump turns on them, they will turn on him.... unlike the standard party-line voter of today."
Count me in this crowd.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/intelligence-expert-mike-rogers-leaves-trump-transition-team-amid-shake-up-1479221847
Pence has ordered the removal of all lobbyists from President-elect Donald Trump's transition team "all team members picked by Christie were being ousted"
(joke) Breaking On CNN. 'The Racism begins: Trump Purges His Administration Of Lobby Americans and People Of Lobby.'
So, I guess Ghouliani isn't going to have a spot in the Cabinet after all? He's one of the biggest lobbying whores on the planet.
It might just really be Kushner taking revenge on Christie for prosecuting his father when he was NJ AG. Then they threw Christie under the bus as they spun it all up to be a story about the removal of lobbyists. That bus gonna need new suspension.
The TrumpCo conflicts of interest are interesting given Trump will select 4,000 people to serve at his pleasure.
I'm sorry. Trump is only finalizing the selection. The actual selection will be orchestrated by TrumpCo's business leaders. Trump's three business stooges plus Shemp Kushner, his business executive kids and his SIL, are selecting our next government, a government which will also oversee the very TrumpCo businesses they run. Both here and abroad. Blind trust my ass.
For example, Trump's DC hotel is a lease from the GSA. Trump/Trump stooges will select the next head of the GSA who will oversee the Trump Hotel GSA contract. Sounds cozy. Conflict of interest? I mean he rents a building from someone he can fire at the drop of a hat... Let's see, low rent and I get a raise, or fair rent and I need a new job......
Trump owes a minimum of $650M to the Bank of China; Trump/Trump stooges will select the next Secretary of State to oversea our Chinese relationship, and perhaps our TrumpCo/Bank of China investment relationship. China, china, china.
Of course we know precious little about all of Trump's the foreign entanglements because we know precious little about Donald Trump. For example, he says he has no ties with Russia but Trump Jr in 2008 said "In terms of high-end product influx into the U.S., Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets," he said at a conference that year, according to news reports. "We see a lot of money pouring in from Russia." Trump confirmed that in subsequent years as well.
Trump railed on Hillary for taking a few hundred thousand from Goldman for speaking, he has over $300M in debt to Goldman and his business owners are selecting the officials to oversee that relationship. An ex-Goldman banker is up for Treasury Secretary..... Destroy Dodd-Frank, loose loans, all the real estate baron's best friends.
During his campaign, Trump dovetailed political work with his grand opening for his Scottish golf course, Ivanka hyped her fashion line during campaign outings, he even opened his DC Hotel piggybacking politics and business. Mixing marketing with politics, can we add in the Church next time?
TrumpCo made millions off the campaign for the Duck's chartered air, one of the most expensive in the land, made more money for rentals at Trump Towers and the rest of his properties. Catering fees, lodging, meeting rooms charged to Trump facilities all racked up millions flowing from Trump Campaign to Trump Co. And you were worried about a few hundred thousand in speaking fees.
Even Trump admits to foreign conflicts of interest. In December of 2015, Trump said: ""I have a little conflict of interest 'cause I have a major, major building in Istanbul. It's a tremendously successful job. It's called Trump Towers—two towers, instead of one, not the usual one, it's two." It's two, two I tell you, you just gotta go....
And you were worried about the Clinton Foundation eroding our government.....
strangerdanger, you are right on, though you left out the less important but certainly entertaining Ivanka advertising / selling the gold bracelet she wore on 60 Minutes on her website (after she sold the dress she wore at the rnc). as for "draining the swamp", there's a former lobbyist fighting social security heading that transition, the former economist at bear stearns heading up economic transition, the goldman sachs lobbyist who's in the lead for treasury sec, Pfizer lobbyist heading transition, the chair of the committee to dispel the myths of global warming heading the epa transition, and the Verizon consultant heading the fcc transition. and the whole lack of a blind trust could hurt us.
finally, as for much of the nonsense ... I've heard trump supporters say they didn't whine like this when Obama was elected. that's not true on a general level. first, and most importantly, the panic when Obama was elected was for things that he never said, like stockpiling guns when it was only something republicans warned against to try to capture the vote. of course it never ended up happening, because it was fiction. the issues people are raising are a direct result of what the candidate and his appointees have / are saying.
The president and the vice president, despite being executive branch employees, are exempt from Title 18 Section 208 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/208. (as are members of Congress and federal judges)
DOJ agrees
http://fas.org/irp/agency/doj/olc/092074.pdf
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/nov/16/rudy-giuliani/giuliani-president-trump-will-be-exempt-conflict-i/
"Trump will have to comply with financial disclosure requirements, however, and he will not be able to take in any income from foreign governments."
"like stockpiling guns"
Oh, the horror! People went shopping after Obama was elected! Businesses and manufacturers (of one of the few things still made in the USA) earned money. So un-American!
Oh, and by the way, where have you been for the past 8 years? Obama has pushed for and/or supported every single firearms restriction proposed during his tenure. He didn't have to "say" it... some of us can read context clues.
And I believe the comment was you didn't see "riots" like this after Obama was elected.
Confidence...fading...please hurry up and finish these appointments...and do something Donald....
*demoted Krispy Kreme - great!
*appoint Reince Priebus chief of staff - bad!
*paul ryan is officially speaker of the house again - bad!
*mitch mcconnell officially head of the senate republicans again - bad!
*rudy g rumored for sec. of state - WTF? bad bad bad.
You are correct Skipster, the are legal.
And like I said, "The TrumpCo conflicts of interest are interesting."
Remember, the Clinton Foundation is legal too and, surprisingly, very transparent.
TrumpCo, aka the family, not so transparent. You don't know where they are, who they owe, who they own, how much they are on the hook for (debt wise), or anything else. Are they doing well, are they not. Or, were they doing badly and suddenly are OK... And they are lots of places. And their owners are picking your government. And their government is only a phone call away from telling the owners what's up and what to do next. Think I'm kidding, here come the company kids, this is what they run: http://qz.com/461688/a-list-of-everything-donald-trump-runs-that-has-his-name-on-it/ That's a HUGE family to feed and I am sure someone is always very, very hungry.
Now really. Can you tell me it's not a conflict to have 4 of your own business owners on the selection team for our government? Not only your business, but 3 of them are your kids, the other an in law. Not only the inner circle, but 4 votes from one business, one family. Four votes for the people who rule YOU. Legal, sure. Bad form, sure. Can we get him for it. Nah.
Trump's move --- a bad sign.
Fact it's not distressing to many --- worse.
No point in "worrying" about any of this stuff until he's ACTUALLY president (surely none of you actually think enough protesting is going to get the election overturned or re-done LOL).
No, I'll wait to pass judgement until Trump is actually IN A POSITION TO ACTUALLY DO something... and actually DOES something.... no point in playing The Minority Report, unless you want to raise you BP and stress levels.
I predict that by January 20, 2017 strangerdanger will have penned a veritable NOVEL in these forum pages... all built on conjecture and guesses. No thanks, not playing that game. Talk to me when Trump ACTUALLY DOES something as president, then we can talk.
I'm not 100% happy with all of his cabinet appointments either. But no one is ever 100% happy in politics, are they?
We need to raise the voting age to 21,maybe 25;if these snowflakes need Play-Doh and therapy dogs.They have no business around a voting booth.
I don't think Trump will nominate Ted Cruz for the SCOTUS, and I don't know if Ted would accept, (Congress has made is pretty clear he'd probably get confirmed rather easily... probably because it gets him out of the GOP lol), but IF that were to happen, Trump's presidency would be a successful one, to me.
Word on the street is that there will be 3-4 SCOTUS seats to fill tho...
"During the next four years, the new president will likely nominate not only Scalia’s replacement but also an additional 3 new justices. Since 1971, the average age of retirement for a Supreme Court justice has been just under 79 years. Ginsburg is 83, Kennedy is 80, and Breyer will be 78 in mid-August. "
Brave new world, indeed... even *I* find the proposition of one president picking so many justices rather scary. However, it hasn't happened until it happens, and I think you will find Trump is not as extreme right-wing as so many of you have made him out to be....
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38003747
Trump ditches reporters and goes out to dinner.
In what way is a pack of media following someone around all the time protective?
Seems to me it's intrusive and annoying no matter who you are.
hktownie The more Trump pisses off the media, the more I smile. I hope this is a sign of things to come for the next 4 years - the media getting pissed over ridiculousness like this.
Now, as for Trump's "public outings".... apparently he mentioned he would like to "go home to NYC every weekend"... we can't have that. Too expensive, too dangerous. You're going to be president, Donald- the White House is YOUR house now for the next 4 years. Get used it. You wanted the job- you got it. Sit your butt down LOL
Yeah agreed SD but he will have to divest the foreign payments which is new in my statement - also as someone who has held a security clearance it has always annoyed me that foreign relatives and owning foreign interests are cause for denial on an SF-86 but senior leaders are exempt lol
"no point in playing The Minority Report"
And then all of 7 minutes later:
"I don't think Trump will nominate Ted Cruz for the SCOTUS"
Nice try JR.
ianimal - That was my first thought too, but ken e really brought that point home. I'm really surprised in all of this supposed swamp draining and cabinet picking how the name Newt Gingrich hasn't come up yet. Where is the committed holding the feet to the fire in that?
And so the internet memes and blame game before it starts and "my hoax is better than your hoax" continues. That's the answer about the question of "divisiveness". It won't end until there are some adults around. The debates weren't adults, the primaries had big issues, and it continues on this thread. When America collectively grows up is when that heals and we can go back to being a group of people with healthy differences of opinions. Now it's just a play ground with kids pretending the other kid is the one who has a problem and needs to grow up.
"nice try"? LOL do you have your safety pin on, GC?
I'm not "worried" (which is precisely what I said) about Trump nominating or not nominating Ted Cruz. Unlike all of you who are already trying to call his presidency a failure before it's already begun.
It's going to be a delightful 4 years.....
This has nothing to do with Trump, but it's related, and just too funny not to post....
More nonsense:
http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Hundreds-walk-out-of-Stanford-classes-demand-10617192.php
These are supposedly educated people, right? What I continually fail to understand about this is why so many smart people are advocating law breaking. Why the continual abhorrence to the Executive branch of the government doing what it is supposed to do, simply *enforcing* the law, as that is it's sole purpose and mandate? Wouldn't it be smarter (and correct) to work to *change* the law rather than just exercise their rights to act like petulant children? These protests are addressing the problem completely wrong IMO and just come across as very naive.
Outrage culture is the new hotness - can't wait till the special snowflakes lose their pell grants and fafsa money so the documentation challenged can move into their dorm rooms. Think they will give up their cafeteria passes too? This is a city that pays bar staff $15/hr and adds a fee to your bill for their health insurance because 1 bedroom apartments are like 4K a month lol.
two versions - the news article about the walk out - and skippy's version - hmmm
still angry eh? your guy won...........sit back and relish it........while you can
These are the special cupcakes that we were told can't be spanked. Good job DYFS and every other state agency throughout the country. You created monsters.
The Electoral College votes on a president on Dec. 19.......there is still time to remove the garbage....it is already starting to smell.....
zentravl To quote my wife (prior to the actual election, in reference to the candidates themselves):
"We deserve this [the candidates]. As a society, for years we have failed to hold people accountable for their actions, and this is what we get."
"These are the special cupcakes that we were told can't be spanked. Good job DYFS and every other state agency throughout the country. You created monsters."
Kids smart enough to get into Stanford and well-adjusted enough to have a social conscience are "monsters"? I'd be a hell of a lot prouder of my child for that than whether or not he can hit a friggin baseball....
1 - I had no version I stated an opinion - this is not like what rutgers is doing where they don't ask when you register what your immigration status is - this is hiding literally hiding people " curtails the ability of federal immigration officials to conduct raids without permission in “sensitive locations,” such as schools."
2 - legality - 8 USC section 1324 deals with those persons who knowingly conceal, harbor, or shield undocumented aliens - not to mention failure to cooperate with federal agents - here is a link because I know the apple dumpling gang here likes proofs
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1324
"Any person who . . . encourages or induces an alien to . . . reside . . . knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that such . . . residence is . . . in violation of law, shall be punished as provided . . . for each alien in respect to whom such a violation occurs . . . fined under title 18 . . . imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both."
See also - Section 274 felonies under the federal Immigration and Nationality Act, INA 274A(a)(1)(A):
3 - universities receive federal funding which could be withheld should they actually go through with this.
How we should feel: "Learn to accept defeat, you all don't win a trophy."
"I understand being upset that you lost, but all the riots, "rape Melania" signs, property destruction, et al, only make the left seem INTOLERANT, and besides the fact very sore losers and crybabies."
"You liberals are lost...its over...its so over- bitches! "
Who we are: "These are the special cupcakes that we were told can't be spanked."
"sore losers and crybabies"
"can't wait till the special snowflakes lose their pell grants and fafsa money so the documentation challenged can move into their dorm rooms."
" just exercise their rights to act like petulant children?"
"these snowflakes need Play-Doh and therapy dogs."
"The blind hypocrisy of the left"
You do know that if Trump enacts his proposals that many of us special blind hypocritical snowflakes will benefit financially way ahead of you cupcake wannabes, right? You won, why do you feel you need to keep playing that blame game?
http://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/S-F-cops-admit-car-theft-victim-was-wrongly-6810705.php?t=6ef12070250a4808f6&cmpid=twitter-premium
same city disciplined the police for turning a car theft victim over to ICE - why? outstanding warrant for deportation against him. they should have all federal funding pulled until such time as they get in compliance with federal laws.
If HRC had won and Trump's supporters protested and were investigating the electoral college, the backlash would be far worse than what is currently being reported by the media for these snowflake children. As a matter of fact, the media and the Dems would be having a field day with it!
What I am confused about is what will protesting accomplish?
I guess all these protesters could care less about what the other ~1/2 of the country wanted?
Their way or the highway?
Stranger danger
Those people were not arrested for obeying the law..p.s. it's not the protest that was illegal..it was actions during game the protest
"You won, why do you feel you need to keep playing that blame game?"
It's all yours, the House, the Senate, the Oval Office. You have owned the State and Local for 6 years or more so what's your problem with local law and order. Run with it and leave us alone.
This is what a week or two of booze and antidepressants make one look like
Hillary looks like she has had a few rough days since the election.This loss has been devastating for her.
Hair not done,less make up and looking so tired and older.
I ALMOST feel sorry for her.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/16/politics/hillary-clinton-childrens-defense-fund-speech-post-election/index.html
Theory: the continued protests being used as an attempt to pressure some delegates to change their votes... only 29 states REQUIRE the delegates to vote as the people did; I guess the other 21 states do not. I have heard (from my niece, who lives there) AZ delegates are being "campaigned" to change their vote (the vote that ACTUALLY elects the president, in December).
I can't imagine such a plan actually working, unless the govt wants armed revolt on their hands, because that is what they will have of they overturn the vote in this manner. I have always said- once the people decide their votes DON'T MATTER (which would be the case if a delegate changes their vote after the general election)... all hell is going to break loose.
well here's a shock for ya.... https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2016/11/17/facebook-fake-news-writer-i-think-donald-trump-is-in-the-white-house-because-of-me/?tid=sm_tw
Clyde Potts ton of fake news this election on both sides. people are looking mainly interested in information that comports with their preexisting notions
"62% of U.S. adults get at least some of their news from social media, and 20% of social-media users say things they read online have changed their views on an issue or candidate"
http://www.journalism.org/2016/05/26/news-use-across-social-media-platforms-2016/
Here's a piece that IMO best describes the whole fear-of-trump thing. It's a bit longish but makes some good points:
http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/11/16/you-are-still-crying-wolf/
I just love the Hillary feels and looks bad pictures. I am sure you all would buck up in minutes after that loss given the realization that it was probably the last time you could try.
Can we roll out some George Bush hides out at the farm using paint-by-numbers to cure depression pictures? Melania's got nothing on that family :>)
Let's keep blaming and beating on. It's good to feel better because someone else feels worse. Feel proud of that one.
Team Trump, aka the Trump kids with the President-Elect just met privately with Japanese Prime Minister. Kushner and Ivanka promised not to talk business, wink-wink, nudge-nudge. So Trump business leaders get prime time with prime minister.....
Japan is outraged, not at Trump, but at it's Prime Minister for breaking all protocols for how Japan governs.
America does not care, we're cool with the Trump kids having this level of access. Just remember, "No point in "worrying" about any of this stuff until he's ACTUALLY president." Wink-wink, nudge-nudge.....
conflicts of interest?? potential problems? http://money.cnn.com/2016/11/18/news/donald-trump-wall-street-journal-liquidate/
MeisterNJ there is no President Trump...he, and that, are oxymorons......how could we let such a disgusting man into our government, our lives, our white house, our world order, our concept of humanity......may he disappear from our lives, as a bad dream often does after it is recognized as one.....
How much more awful can it get??? "...jeff Sessions, attorney general of the United States. The man who was too racist to be a federal judge. Thirty years ago. That is, he was too out there for the racial sensitivities of 30 years ago. And now he’s going to be the boss of every federal judge in the United States.
I remember the Sessions judicial nomination as it unfolded in real time, remember that he said he thought the Ku Klux Klan was all right until he found out some of them smoked dope, that he said the ACLU and NAACP were commie front groups. His nomination was rejected by the Senate Judiciary Committee, making him the first Reagan federal bench appointee to be so rejected."
good thing you live in the Democratic Peoples Republic of NJ - you have state rights already kicking in. SD told you so.
"You have owned the State and Local for 6 years or more so what's your problem with local law and order. Run with it and leave us alone."
General James Mad Dog Mattis meeting with Trump tomorrow
http://freebeacon.com/national-security/the-best-from-mad-dog-mattis/
My prediction is Sessions' focus will be on overall law enforcement with immigration being as the top of the list. I don't see him accepting continued violation of federal law for "compassionate" reasons. He is a sensible, aggressive centrist who now sits on the Senate Judiciary Committee that did not confirm him..
"Sessions has joined with Democrats to support criminal justice reform legislation like reducing the disparity between sentence time for crack and powder cocaine (although civil rights advocates say more recently he opposed a bipartisan criminal justice reform package that in part reduced federal sentences.) In 2010 he teamed up with Sen. Claire McCaskill (D-Mo.) on a proposal to put strict limits on non-military federal spending"
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/11/18/10-things-to-know-about-sen-jeff-sessions-donald-trumps-pick-for-attorney-general/
Archie Bunker (from "All in the Family, for you millennia guys out there, who never saw the show), would be in absolute heaven, right now. Meathead and Gloria would be devastated...
The real Meathead, Rob Reiner is in meltdown mode. Even Chris Matthews had to cut him off.
4catmom you are losing it. I think you need to go into your safe space with pillows, soothing music, candles and sympathetic staff.
Jeff Sessions is not a racist and there is no proof. The thing in '86 was a hit job based on hearsay. You know, back when the left calling everyone a racist worked.
Gerry Herbert is not a credible source and, ironically enough, has been scolded by higher courts for bringing frivolous cases based on EXAGGERATED CHARGES OF RACISM. In one, the court ruled:
"A properly conducted investigation would have quickly revealed that there was no basis for the claim that the Defendants were guilty of purposeful discrimination against black voters"
http://www.leagle.com/decision/19971543125F3d1418_11353/U.S.%20v.%20JONES
Calling everyone in the Republican party a racist is getting old fast. If everyone is a racist, no one is.
I congratulate President-elect Trump on a fantastic choice for Attorney General.
I guess this is fine with you?? https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/10/25/white-high-schoolers-in-mississippi-put-a-noose-around-a-black-students-neck-and-yanked-naacp-says/
It's all about point of view. Some are concerned about what Trump will bring. Others are concerned about our country being hijacked by special interest groups for many many decades...
4CM - of course that's not ok - what does that have to do with cabinet appointments? - pause the outrage for a second.
ZT - vote. Voter turnout in this election was the lowest it's been in 20 years. Stop making it everyone else's issue.
unless you're a member of Congress, the most effective thing you can do to fight Donald Trump is to pull up your calendar, flip ahead to November 6, 2018, and write in something like this:
VOTE
That's the date on which 33 senate seats, all 435 seats in the House of Representatives, and 14 governorships currently held by Republicans will be up for reelection
If you are so outraged by the outcome of the election you have 2 years to rally.
Btw - sessions desegregated schools in Alabama and got the death Penalty for the head of the KKK.
I dont know whats more amazing. The fact that the media is still spewing its lies or that otherwise intelligent people still believe them.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3496002/posts
We have not had a standup choice since Ron Paul. But remember that the President's role is that of a manager. He really can't even launch nukes since the command has to be approved in pairs all the way down to the operators of the nukes...
How about the DNC talking about putting in Keith Ellison as its Chairman. The former member of the Nation of Islam and disciple of screwy Louie Farrakhan. Anti Semite?
More Disrespect
https://www.yahoo.com/news/mike-pence-booed-at-hamilton-addressing-him-cast-says-it-fears-trump-team-will-not-protect-us-063728742.html
OK, it's been a week and a half. It's time for the crybabies to put on their diaper pins...uh, oh, sorry... SAFETY pins..... and get on with life.
Please educate yourself, good background understand for the times ahead:
https://youtu.be/nFYEfq6QSQM
"More disrespect" Gee, that's tough. Maybe it's something he said?
Trump lawyer says: "“While we have no doubt that Trump University would have prevailed at trial based on the merits of this case, resolution of these matters allows President-elect Trump to devote his full attention to the important issues facing our great nation" as conman in chief forks over $25M to close out CA and NY cases. He bought off FL for much cheaper.....
Just calling themselves Nation Of Islam doesn't make them Islamic. This group is unaccredited and should never be considered Islamic.
http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/656/viewall/what-s-in-name-problem-with-nation-of-islam/
Re Darrin's link about Pence's experience at the Broadway show "Hamilton", the booing by some in the audience was disrespectful and wrong, agree. But the message delivered to him by the cast was respectful.
A bit of a digression: The Alexander Hamilton in the show is considered America's second most important founding father (after Washington) and the best looking! Sad ending, though. :(
I don't know....there's something about that Pence......just can't put my finger on it....
Enjoy the last day of summer!!!!
Suddenly I was watching some old James Bond on TCM and it all became clear where I remember Pence from......
Then I saw some old WWII photos and suddenly I realized why everyone boo'd....
Skippy - That's an interesting Googilian Slip. The notes you mentioned after the fact about Sessions are the talking points of the *Breitbart* 15 Things to know about Sessions. Instead your prior post was a link to the *Washington Post* 10 Things to know about Sessions. The Post does go into his seemingly contradictory private and public actions and statements. But it also throws cold water on the Free Republic claim he's "centrist".
CBGB - The other thing about NOI that is pertinent is the role as the main originator of the Million Man March. That's what Keith Ellison was doing in 1995, organizing local marchers but not as a member of NOI. Particularly when Chuck Schumer is a supporter of Ellison, the whole idea of antisemitism doesn't seem very strong. Unless you read Breitbart last week who called him " a former disciple of Louis Farrakhan and the Nation of Islam". Is there an echo in here....
"OK, it's been a week and a half. It's time for the crybabies to put on their diaper pins...uh, oh, sorry... SAFETY pins..... and get on with life."
It's been almost 8 years and the Obama crybabies never even slowed down. I wouldn't expect anything different from the other side, unfortunately. This is the way it's going to be going forward and will probably get worse, not better.
Just came home past Trump Golf course in Bedminster. No parking signs up 1/2 mile before and after the main entrance. Funny thing was the four protesters out front holding signs that the KKK is now in the Whitehouse! I just slowed up and laughed and told them to get a job and that the election was over! How many people would be protesting if the sea hag had won? Not many because we have to work for a living
Catskinner GC are you saying it is more a case of guilty by association than actual fact when accusing Ellison of antisemitism?
I think I would agree. Not that I am overly familiar with the man.
CBGB - I'm definitely no expert on the guy either, but I've definitely heard of him because of his religious convictions and those that want to use that for FUD. You have to be able to see the difference between the Mohammad Ali's and the Malcom X's. I did see 8 years ago during his election he put out official statements saying he was never an actual member and his original interest was really in the DC march. Afterwards it seemed like he was saying he was invited to become a member but then researched it and came to the same conclusion as others - the anti-semitism was clear and he wanted no part of it. And that was the end of it. I wouldn't even be so sure of guilt by association because it seems his "association" isn't even as strong as is being portrayed in the NMSM.
From CNN, experts are suggesting that Clinton challenge election results, but don't the results also possibly suggest that where votes are manually counted, the counters may be cheating? Always something with politics.
"they believe there is a questionable trend of Clinton performing worse in counties that relied on electronic voting machines compared to paper ballots and optical scanners, according to the source."
Trump has the blood of armchair warrior Dick Cheney:
http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/22/politics/trump-grandfather-germany-friedrich/index.html
And correct animal, people think change will drop prosperity in their laps. You know what, you got to go out there and get it. In fact, most of are here as a result of ancestors going out to get it...
Obama destroyed the democatic party in 8 years, and Trump will do the same if he fails with a Republican house and senate
judy Michigan certifies Trump but MI popular vote drops to a 10K lead for Trump. Wisconsin filed by Green Party for recount, expect PA and MI to be filed for recount as well whether by Green Party or Clinton.
Probably won't do much except extend the pain for the loser's and further highlight the man's lack of mandate for the winners which given the Congressional and local wins, might fall on deaf ears.
Meanwhile Trump continues to drain the swamp by dredging the political halls and dumping a good amount of the swamp bottom sludge directly into his administration. Being an outsider and draining the swamp turns out to be two different things. Starting at the top:
Mike Pence --- Congressional Swamp Rat who was chairman of the House Republican Conference for years. At 57, he is a whippersnapper, but not a swamp drainer nor an outsider.
Jeff Sessions -- Believe it was Sessions who invented the swamp with over 20 years in Congress, he's still Junior, and around 35 years in government. If you get any more inside than Sessions, you would be outside. Guy's like 70 years old.
Betsy Devos -- Rich and politically active, this philanthropist ran her state's Republican Party for decades living at the swamp's Michigan backwater. She dropped that activity when the party fragmented away from core Republican beliefs. Guess that makes her an insider swamp builder..... At 59, she can sit at Mike's kiddie table...
Mike Flynn -- Trump's first swamp drainer from the outside, Flynn was ousted for not playing well with others from his Obama administration national security job. So, only 4 years in the swamp and didn't like it. Of course his political and financial ties with Russia, Turkey may prove sticky. Another 59-yr old for the Pence table....
Mike Pompeo --- Five years in the swamp, this Tea Partier Congressman is an unknown for a swamp drainer since he's done not much except live there. Best known for his Clinton rants. Probably trying hard to be an insider from the other side not he's totally inside..... At 54, he is our government's future.....
Nikki Halley --- At 44, she bumps Pence from the head of the kiddie table, she is a State Governor, an outsider, but as UN Ambassador, who cares, what can she do to drain the Washington swamp. A rising star in the party, and certainly it's future, Trump is just taking her out of the limelight for 2020; it's swamp management.
Kathleen “KT” McFarland --- At 66, she is holding up better than the men but beyond that, just not sure a myriad of defense support jobs and being on FOX puts her in the swamp or not. Certainly not a swamp drainer....
Donald McGahn --- will continue on as Trump's counsel. Guy's a campaign legal specialist, just not even sure why he's there, but he's a lawyer and that's just swampy right there.
Swampy for sure.
Oh, and if you have 3 children (or more) or if you are a single parent, your taxes are going UP UP UP.
Because Trump loves you so much.
Yup..just read that, happiestgirl. Said he's going to lower taxes on the middle class families, with both parents still together, but raising taxes on single parents more. DUH! I would think, that most single parents who are not extremely wealthy, would need it the most.
Trump lies and flip flops all over the place. He is not prepared. Knows very little about public service. He's draining the swamp, and replacing it with a cesspool.
Let's just hope that some of his gang still has a soul, and maybe he will flip flop, in doing what's right, for this country.
Let credit card interest be tax deductible. I don't think ultra wealthy worry about being in debt, with credit cards. Repeal the Reagan and Dubya's, tax cuts, on the ultra wealthy. Take off the SS cap, which a lot of people don't even know about. All earned income, up to $128k, is taxed on SS. Then it freezes, at that point. So the average family contributes to SS, more than Trump does. He's only taxed on the first $128k. Billions of dollars, earned, goes untaxed, in this country. A kind of tax system, that protects, the ultra wealthy only, is what creates a third world country and a great depression. I still like the flat tax idea. To be a great country, we all have to contribute, fairly and equally, percentage wise.
Well, like they say..." we may be through with the past, but the past ain't through with us" History always repeats itself.
sparksjbc1964
Credit card interest used to be tax deductible. I forgot which administration/Congress ended up changing that, but it definitely didn't help at the time to not be able to claim it as a deduction anymore.
Phil D. Give the man a fair chance! Just like we did for Obama and after 8 years He blew it and has destroyed America! Trump will make America great again! Give him a chance and ignore main stream media who will lie! As will all liberals on this thread!
Sparks- there is a cap to how much you can get out of social security, why shouldn't there be a cap on how much you have to put in?
Remember what Obama inherited. Things are better than when Bush was in charge. Obama, spent the last eight years trying to undo all the damage Dubya, did, fighting congressman and senators, every step of the way. Obama worked very hard for us. And now Trump wants to undo everything Obama worked so hard for. He didn't want a mandate, for healthcare, but that was the only way the house would put through the first step of nationalize healthcare. We have police and emergency services, for "our safety". Why not healthcare, for "our safety"? Why stop there? It's not like it's a luxury, or anything. Should be totally free, just like members of our government receive. The government is supposed to be"for the people, by the people", but yet "the people" very rarely get to vote on what our government does. The branches of government do, instead.
Trump still has sleazy things up his sleeve. We will see if he makes the country more united, or more divided , which can be dangerous. His kids, having control of his businesses and access to top secret security clearances seems a little fishy to me. We'll see. I pray, for the good of our country, that I'm wrong, yet the more I hear about Trump, the more dismal things look. If Trump would just stop lying, for once in his life, we could see what kind of president he may be.
Phil... it was probably Reagan, but not sure. Little things, to chip away the middle class and working poor families, yet help the already ultra wealthy save more on THEIR taxes. The government is supported by Americans, so all Americans should have a right to vote how the taxes get spent. Getting rid of just one more deduction, like credit card interest and removing the luxury tax, on million dollar purchases of cars and yachts, was another move, in the best interests of the ultra wealthy. Like they need more tax breaks, so the working class people have to make up the difference.
What was all the hullabaloo earlier about TRUMP not saying he'd accept the election results? All the outrage? Hmm..... And didn't Hillary say she WOULD accept the election results?
Right, right... Hillary isn't asking for the recount, JILL STEIN is... uh huh... right.
Well, if Dump said the election was rigged if he didn't win then the rest of us can say it was because he DID win. Dump the new POS created this situation all by himself. Wow, such a great guy, not. He could be the greatest POS there ever was but it doesn't change the fact that he is a disgusting piece if excrement. He's classless and sleazy and deceitful and has already walked back everything he promised that helped get him your vote. Also the people he's picking for his administration are f'ing scary. Good job America, good job. Not.
Typical to not respond to the point made. Sore loser? Perhaps. From my point of view it's me being scared to death of what Dump will and has done to this country. Jackass.
Of course it would irrational for someone to feel the same way about Hillary.... LOL
Hypocrite much?
Yes, it would be irrational to think Hillary would be worse than Dump. But I get it you feel how you feel. I did not see anyone being scared of what she might do though. Seemed more like anger to me. Not the same thing IMO. Look at what's happened already, the veracity of our democracy being questioned, hate crimes on the rise, conflicts of interest, extremist persons in the administration. Children in the administration? Are you kidding me??? And as far as the protests and all, I have no doubt that it will change nothing but it's the satisfaction of saying you are NOT our president and deserve no respect whatsoever because you're disgusting and never gave Obama any in eight years. Oh except for now cause now you're finding out how hard it really is and are crapping your pants. Did you see the look on his face coming out of a meeting? Shell shocked is how I would describe it. And probably just as he accused the system of being rigged he was probably right but not the way you think. And btw you're still a jack ass as well as a hypocrite (one of your favorite words). Oh wait I forgot your other favorite, LOL.
Ras is suffering from a serious case of post election Liberal butt hurt.
BTW,Jimmy Carter is happy because Obama will go down as one of the worst Presidents in history even making him look good!
RAS, you've been busy I see!
https://www.rt.com/viral/368348-dump-tower-trump-google-maps/
Trump Tower renamed Dump Tower, by someone who is eminently enlightened I'm sure -;)
Taxes....always a great topic... On one side it's government theft evil compounded by incompetent spending. On the other is Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr. and others talking about "Taxes are what we pay for civilized society, including the chance to insure."
IMO, whether legislating or paying taxes: it's an art form. The goal is to create an image that pleases you. IOW, we take your money while at the same time we make you feel good about it. Tough goal to be fair to all when the basic premise is no fair to anyone. To increase those "good feelings," we roll in incentives for doing "the right thing" for our society: loopholes for the rich to make them feel better about paying more, incentives to the less rich for doing certain things deemed "civilized," all incentives designed to make you feel like you got a deal for doing the "right" things.
I'm all for that given we all agree, generally, as to what the "right things" are.
Issue today is that we've been putting more "good things" in every year since Reagan and the tax code today is more convoluted than it was before Reagan stripped the code to it's basics. We don't even know what the "right things" we agree to are any more. IMHO, we need to scrap it all, and restart the process.
A few technical points Sparks.... First, SS while taken as a payroll tax, in actuality is an insurance payment. That is, you pay in and if you live long, you prosper. If you don't, thank you for your contribution. Just like life insurance in operation and auto insurance in being legally mandatory, but only if you work. The main reason that it's implemented as a tax is Constitutional; that's the process that flies with the Supremes. And you're right, that's why ObamaCare uses the tax code to implement. Let's it pass Constitutional scrutiny just like SS.
Second, the Reagan/Dubya tax cuts are really the Dubya/Obama tax cuts. To reach across the aisle, Obama extended them (to which the right immediately shoved up his whatever blaming him for higher taxes....). Cut the tax cuts? Trump plans to amp them up by about 4 times the Reagan level for the largest tax cut in history. (don't worry, we'll make it up with magical new revenues, smarter government workers, and less immigrants.....)
I agree that Health Care should be something we provide as a nation, just like education. But that's the rub. Many don't feel we should all pitch in together as a team to keep everyone healthy. I have often said it's all about not letting someone go down the financial drain just because they got sick. To me, that's the minimum bar we need to set. Using the tax system for financing is as good as anything.
Where I think Obama caved in all this was removing the public option. He caved to the greedy insurance companies and the silly Tea Partiers who saw death lists in the public option. If we had that, we would reduce the tax credit payments to cover private insurance as well as making private insurers become more competitive.
Credit Card interest disappeared in 1986 with Reagan. When we decide on deductions, we need to really think about what we are incenting. Incenting borrowing via high priced credit card interest may not be in the best interest of "civilization." I am guessing the deduction was there as much to spur the credit card business as it was to give taxpayers a break. And while IMHO this is very close to the "in the public good" line, I guess it's appropriate to use the tax code to grow industries can be in the public good: even credit cards. Credit cards didn't really take off until the late 70's and I am guessing by 1986, we realized the pitfalls of incenting this behavior as public policy.
But once the industry was established, IMO this is an example of a bad deduction. We, as a nation, should not incent wide-open consumer debt so thank you Mr. Reagan.
But not to fear Sparks; if you can take a Home Equity loan, just grab one, use the money to pay off the credit cards and enjoy paying lower interest PLUS the incentive of getting tax deductions on your interest paid. Up to $100,000K of debt.
http://keywiki.org/George_Soros
"In 1994, George Soros stated: "Just right that the former Soviet Empire is now called the Soros Empire."
The following are George Soros' seven steps for bringing down a regime and causing a currency collapse:
Step One: Form a shadow government using humanitarian aid as cover.
Step Two: Control the airwaves. Fund existing radio and TV outlets and take control over them or start your own outlets.
Step Three: Destabilize the state, weaken the government and build an anti-government kind of feeling in the country. You exploit an economic crisis or take advantage of an existing crisis — pressure from the top and the bottom. This will allow you to weaken the government and build anti-government public sentiment.
Step Four: Sow unrest.
Step Five: Provoke an election crisis. You wait for an election and during the election, you cry voter fraud.
Step Six: Take power. You stage massive demonstrations, civil disobedience, sit-ins, general strikes and you encourage activism. You promote voter fraud and tell followers what to do through your radio and television stations. Incitement and violence are conducted at this stage.
Step Seven: Outlast your opponent."
Transcript:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/2010/11/11/glenn-beck-five-step-plan.html
Scary stuff - this is actually playing out
Of course the devil is in the details and we don't know what they are yet, but possibly very good news. Carrier has struck some sort of deal with the Trump administration to keep jobs in the U.S.
http://money.cnn.com/2016/11/29/news/economy/trump-carrier-deal/
Trump:
"I will be holding a major news conference in New York City with my children on December 15 to discuss the fact that I will be leaving my great business in total - in order to fully focus on running the country in order to MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!
While I am not mandated to do this under the law, I feel it is visually important, as President, to in no way have a conflict of interest with my various businesses. Hence, legal documents are being crafted which take me completely out of business operations. The Presidency is a far more important task!"
Hmmm, and what does Carrier get in return? Probably a tax break or subsidy, which is paid for by, wait for it... The taxpayers.
And if you read it literally JR, he's only trying to avoid the "appearance" of conflict of interest, you know, even though he doesn't have to. Douche. How do you like that Commerce appointment? A billionaire, LOL. Can anyone honestly say that the people being appointed are going to be thinking of the average Joe's needs? I got a bridge to sell ya.
Carrier's parent company has a lot of government contracts. I'm sure the loss of that income was dangled in their faces. Good. You want some, give some.
While I am not a fan of granting tax breaks, States and Cities do it all of the time. Would you rather have a 1,000 people unemployed and going on the system. Who is paying for that, the taxpayers of course. Those 1,000 people will be paying federal and local taxes. Also, what about the local businesses that count on the Plant for their livelihood. How any of those people would be out of work and a business taken off the tax rolls. It has a domino effect.
well, RAS, if you want to get LITERAL about things, how about Hillary sponsoring a bill to punish those who burn the American flag? How about Hillary saying not accepting the election results was a direct threat to democracy? How about Obama's "if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor"?
Take your liberal blinders off, you're embarrassing yourself.
You really need to dig a little deeper into the facts before you make up your spinful narrative Jr. Hillary's bill was a pretty narrow definition of a flag-burning crime. Specifically, "The law would have prohibited burning or otherwise destroying and damaging the US flag with the primary purpose of intimidation or inciting immediate violence or for the act of terrorism."
On a far grander scale, Trump calls for fines, imprisonment, and/or loss of citizenship for any flag burning. Not even sure how you implement loss of citizenship; where do you deport un-American Americans? Hey, he's only going against two, count em, two Supreme Court decisions: one on the freed of speech to burn the flag, and the other on the use of citizenship as criminal punishment. Idiot.
This on top of his current blacklisting of certain reporters allowing only "the good ones" to ask him questions and his stated desire to lower libel laws for an easier time to sue the media.
As far as the Carrier Plant goes, I agree, the devils in the details. But one thing is clear. Price is determined on a number of factors: cost is a major. Generally, more cost equals higher price. No way around that one. So, either you pay the piper for the product or you pay via taxes to subsidize the product. There is no magic here; lower costs are lower costs. And lower costs equal lower prices.
Now many companies will begin to announce thoughts on plants moving overseas. Why not, just announcing will be a cost-cutting move...... And guess who at the very end of the value chain will foot the bill?
On the other side, there's all those high paying jobs saved..... We're at 4.9% unemployment --- that's actually a fairly normal level meaning jobs are available. Average Carrier pay = $23 an hour, about $48K a year. Average income in the US is $44K. Sounds to me that, money-wise, these jobs are pretty damn replaceable by numbers or availability.
That said, yes, there's always personal tragedy when there's a closure. Awful stuff happens and things change. But you can't tilt at the lower cost windmill by subsidizing the higher costs forever. Otherwise, you will become Cuba with a closed, protectionist, economy and all that results.
Did Hillary contest the election? I missed that one.... But I did here what the Trumpers said re an election contest. From Kellyann: "And so he said he wouldn’t rule it out. He said it’s just not his focus right now. I think he’s being quite magnanimous and at the same time he’s not undercutting at all the authority and the autonomy of the Department of Justice, of the FBI, of the House Committees, who knows where the evidence may lead if, in fact, it were — if the investigation were re-opened somewhere.
But this is the president-elect’s position right now and I would say he has been incredibly gracious and magnanimous to Secretary Clinton at a time when for whatever reason her folks are saying they will join in a recount to try to somehow undo the 70 plus electoral votes that he beat her by. I mean this — you know, I was asked on CNN and elsewhere, goodness a thousand times, will Donald Trump accept the election results? And now you’ve got the Democrats and Jill Stein saying they do not accept the election results. She congratulated him and conceded to him on election night. I was right there. And the idea that we are going to drag this out now where the president-elect has been incredible y magnanimous to the Clintons and to the Obamas is incredible."
Oh yeah, ask for a recount according to the process and the President of the United States will come after you with everything he's got...... Ain't Amerika Great Again?
RAS, when you get over your hypocrisy, and start accepting reality, let us know, and maybe we can have a reasonable discussion. Until then.... enjoy the next 4-8 years :)
"RAS, when you get over your hypocrisy, and start accepting reality, let us know, and maybe we can have a reasonable discussion."
RAS made a comment about Trump... to which you responded "but Hillary and Obama did this". I'm doubting that will ever be the basis for a reasonable discussion.
RAS made a comment on things being "literal", to which I gave him some other literal examples that he chooses to ignore.
Not my problem if hypocrisy is his version of "logic."
I posted some possible good news in the most non-confrontational way I could. It took a grand total of 1 post to devolve into partisan politics. One thing I've come to realize this election cycle (i'm slow on the uptake) is labeling people makes most discussions a non-starter. Seems like only after the labels are dropped that civilized discussion is possible.
Can we talk about how awesome it is when women paint their nails instead? ;)
Scottso,
I recall you calling me irrelevant and a special snowflake. Tell me again how we shouldn't label one another.
@mb, as I stated in my post I just came to realize this. I humbly apologize. I was wrong. Definitely not the first time and I'm sure not the last.
You should apologize. Bringing a knife to a gun fight and then whining about all the fighting going on..... :>)
Meanwhile what would have happened if Obama had saved those Carrier jobs?
"why, that so n so keeps using the government to pick winners and losers."
"that muslim amerikin birth certificate wannabee using taxpayer money to bailout the fat cats again."
"Just another case of government seizing control of the economy."
How 'bout that "Mad Dog" Mattis, eh?
“I come in peace. I didn’t bring artillery. But I’m pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you f--k with me, I’ll kill you all.”
Sounds like a good SECDEF to me.
(video; 7 of his most famous quotes)
https://www.facebook.com/heritagefoundation/videos/10154758997204481/
"Meanwhile what would have happened if Obama had saved those Carrier jobs?"
I believe you have advocated many times that sometimes tax incentives for the "greater social good" are quite admirable. Now just because Trump/Pence does it, it's bad?
"government to pick winners and losers"
Perhaps Obama just picked too many losers... and if this Carrier deal ends up losing I fully expect that nobody will be shy to point that out no matter what "side" they are on.
Also, until we know the details, nobody can definitively say whether it's a winner or a loser. A small incentive to keep jobs in America (and that "incentive" may have included government contracts going to someone else other than United Technologies) is likely to be considerably different than a government incentive to simply prop up a failing company, such as Solyndra.
Yes, I like public interest tax incentives that would not be accomplished in a free market. However, there's too many of these out there right now and its way beyond out of control in complexity, confusion and a lack of purpose. My point is that you would have been raging if Obama had done this. Heck, Obama saved the US auto industry and still gets hate mail for doing it.
"Perhaps Obama just picked too many losers... and if this Carrier deal ends up losing I fully expect that nobody will be shy to point that out no matter what "side" they are on." And then there's facts. First the Carrier deal only saved 50% of the jobs; that's a loser statistic and yet you remain shy. Second, what did we save? We saved average paying jobs that, in a 4.6% unemployment world, have replaceable alternatives. After the Union capitulated a few years back, a number of these folks make $14 an hour, hardly a good paying job.
I do feel for those affected, it's tough to lose any job even if alternatives exist. But Trump stepping in to do a one-off sets a stupid precedent. Companies have no idea what to expect or plan for since it's ad hoc deal making. Just have to call Trump to find out. In the case of Carrier, Trump did nothing that his "plan" called for: there were no punitive tariffs, no VAT tax added, no threats of an administrative holy war against Carrier --- nope, no program. He did it the old fashioned Trump way, by using someone else’s money, ours. He bought them off for 7M taxpayer dollars.... As Palin herself said, it's "crony capitalism."
And you did rage against Obama's machine claiming Trump's deal is "likely to be considerably different than a government incentive to simply prop up a failing company, such as Solyndra." Really? Because Trump reached in to save a failing company with tax subsidies with a one-off pay-off deal versus any sort of systemic program to save factory jobs. Obama created an $51B clean energy stimulus program to stimulate an entire industry while cleaning up the environment. In that program, Solyndra failed and we lost $535M. That's a two-day price tag for the Iraq decision......
This program jump started an industry, completed large projects that would never have seen the light of day, and helps clean up our air. The downside: some coal miners will need new skills to seize new opportunities. Propping up Solyndra along the way did not affect the program outcome except in optics for the blind.
The program, including the Solyndra loss, was economically and financially successful. It’s a poster child for a progressive government program to serve the people, industry, and the economy. We are $30M in the BLACK for these loans. It's a government program that did better than breakeven. Including Solyndra, the program turned a profit. Default rate on the $51B loans was a low 2.3%. That's better than any Trump business risk. The program created 60,000 jobs, weatherized about a million homes, increased CA share of solar to 30% of what goes across their grid and there’s a lot more good news factoids.
"Two months ago, a spokesman for NRG Energy Inc. (which owns three solar power plants) told Reuters, "The loan program has been successful in bringing to market good projects with good credit support that absolutely would not have been built" if not for those loans."
"Post-Solyndra, a plant in Colorado produces photovoltaic energy (a form of solar power) - reputedly the largest of its kind in the world. A plant in Kansas produces cellulosic ethanol from non-edible waste. There are solar thermal plants and wind farms in California and Arizona. Some projects have reportedly inked deals to sell clean power to utility companies. One project in California has already paid back its $450 million nearly 10 years ahead of schedule."
http://www.newsworks.org/index.php/local/national-interest/77664-the-obama-solar-success-story-that-nobody-talks-about
I have previously posted solar production and solar power plant production numbers which have an incredible growth rate although still a drop in the nation's energy. In almost every metric, the Solyndra mistake was part of a prudent free market support program from the government to kick start an industry that the private sector would not ignite, creating cleaner jobs and environment.
On the other side, you have the coal clean air restrictions. All I can say is breathe deep for now. http://www.climatecentral.org/news/power-plant-emissions-fall-lowest-level-decades-20357
So we have tens of thousands of new jobs, a new industry, cleaner air, profit, and a Solyndra failure versus 800 jobs at Carrier in Indiana.
"So we have tens of thousands of new jobs, a new industry, cleaner air, profit, and a Solyndra failure versus 800 jobs at Carrier in Indiana."
ROFL. All that political spin aside... Trump isn't even president yet, and he's "saved 800 jobs." Let's see what happens over the next 4 years, then we can compare.
BTW, as for failures, don't forget Obamacare. Obama lied, people lost their doctors. Obama lied, people's premiums went up.
I think you'll see history will not be kind to Obamacare, in the end. Unless you've got a bunch of commie libs writing the history books (which is usually the case) LOL
As usual no rebuttal other than conspiracy theory and name calling. Let's see how you "spin" it when Dump starts a couple wars by making stupid ass phone calls. LOL
"As usual no rebuttal other than conspiracy theory and name calling."
What name calling (other than the ones in most/all of your comments)?
And what "names" did I call anyone other than Dump? It fits and at least I capitalize it. I don't recall calling anyone else a name except in response to the usual libtard, bleeding heart libs, crap. Hey, but maybe I did it's just not something I usually do. JR however, seems to denigrate, and demean in *most* of his posts. Go ahead and tell me I'm wrong. I'm sure you will cause you have your blinders on. Um hypocrite much, LOL, and all that stuff right back at ya.
"Obama saved the US auto industry". At what costs, 100,000 retail investors lost 27 billion dollars in savings and it cost the US taxpayers between 11 and 12 billion dollars. Not to mention the other investors that lost about 60 billion dollars.
So you don't call anyone names... "except" when you do. Your own words there, RAS. Nice logic.
RAS, where did I call anyone "names" in my last 2 posts???
Right... NOWHERE. Enjoy the next 4 years :)
(unless you're referencing "commie libs"... in which case, for something to be considered "name calling", it has to be UNTRUE... you lose again. :)
I would hardly compare me calling Dump a name to every denigration you dish out to people on HL. And, saying something is "true" and therefore not name calling is disingenuous.
On another note, I do agree with you on one thing and that is this country is in distress because of Dump. I would add an upside down American flag to my moniker if I knew how.
Sorry JR is probably the last one to call someone an derogatory name - he's pretty even keeled from my reading
The site uses http://en.gravatar.com/ for pics next to your name - it's tied to your email.
BTW, RAS.. you've noticed I have NOT removed my "distress flag" because Trump won? That's because I'm not a "Trumpist", a republican, or under any illusions that Trump is some kind of "savior". He will have to prove himself to me before I believe the country is out of the danger it is currently in. Time will tell. How is that for "objective"?
Also BTW, when Obama won, I wasn't rioting in the streets and burning things down. I wasn't calling for arbitrary recounts, or running what amounts to "campaigns of hate" like I see all over Facebook in the last month from the Trump haters.
Generalize much? So every Hillary supporter riots and burns things? So very objective of you. Go ahead and pat yourself on the back for your great objectivity. And no, I've never said Dump supporters were "deplorable".
And BTW, there are many, many instances where JR has spoken in a down his nose tone that was directed specifically to democrats or liberals but he won't own it. Just wait one more post or two and it will come out again. He can't help himself cause he's so wonderfully objective. And lest anyone think I'm name calling, remember as JR said if it's true then it can't be that.
Oh geez, I just thought, with much chagrin, of how I called JR a jack ass a couple times. At least I didn't call him a stupid jack ass. And it was only twice I think. Sorry JR. I guess what bugs me is you do say in a lot of your posts the dems this and libs that. While you claim to be objective I don't see the same disparaging remarks about the other side. It may not be name calling but it takes away from your message. Unless I suppose that is your message. But to each his own. I guess I will have to get a thicker skin. And not throw stones while living in a glass house!
RAS, apparently you haven't been here long, as I have railed against the GOP as well. I'm pretty much with JIT (Justintime) on ths: there is very little difference between democrats and republicans, in the grand scheme, over time. Republicrats is a good name for the 2-headed snake they have become.
I am a libertarian (in philosophy, not in party), leaning conservative fiscally and leaning liberal socially. I don't believe in political parties anymore (learned that from G. Washington, who had it right over 200 years go). We have become an oligarchy.
From JR above: "Also BTW, when Obama won, ....I wasn't running what amounts to "campaigns of hate" like I see all over Facebook in the last month from the Trump haters."
Hmm, interesting. Have I only imagined the unending demonization of President Obama coming out of JR's posts for years?
Hey, nothing wrong with demonizing a politician... firstly, that's what free speech is. Secondly, they probably deserve it. I pretty much demonize anyone arrogant or egotistical enough to run for public office LOL. But saying Obama is a socialist who wants to make the country Euro-Merica, and saying Trump is the incarnation of Satan himself, who is going to strip gays of their rights or put people into camps is a little different. Gee, you'd think Trump was FDR (Democrat) or something ROFL
But no one was rioting and burning things when Obama won- EITHER time. Or costing the taxpayers millions for recounts that don't matter.
JR I can now understand your point of view better. Thanks for that.
As far as the recount that doesn't matter- would it have mattered if he lost and demanded one because of a so called rigged system? I agree the recount will not change the results but it just may help restore some faith in the election process. Then again it may do just the opposite. I mean if one side has been pounded about rigged outcomes then why can't it be true for the other side? Why is it that only democrats have "millions" of illegal voters? I know you haven't been saying that but that kind of rhetoric was tossed around every time he was behind. And I'm sitting there saying yeah it could be rigged by, take your pick of a few unsavory characters.
"I agree the recount will not change the results but it just may help restore some faith in the election process."
Interesting... because Trump winning DID restore faith in the election process, to HALF the country. Seriously- nobody wanted him. Even the GOP tried to stop him. But he still won. Despite being constantly torpedoed by the GOP (at least until the general election, and even then many republicans said they would not vote for him). But the PEOPLE wanted him, and they voted him in.
Hillary's recount amounts to crybaby sore-losering. Sure sure- Jill Stein is behind the recount. Uh-Huh. LOL
Look, eve *I* understand Al Gore's FL recount and "hanging chads"... but this recount is childish. Especially since everyone knows it won't amount to a hill of beans.
RAS, like I said: HALF the country. HALF felt the election process still works. The other half may not, but the only way they can think that is to disagree with the electoral college, and would instead prefer mob rule/popular vote. And remember: you can't just want the popular vote when YOU get it (but still lose with the electoral college), you have to want it for ALL TIME- including the next time YOU LOSE the popular vote, but win the electoral college...
the bottom line is this:
Clinton was not a motivating candidate. People didn't want to vote FOR her. They were merely voting against Trump.
Trump WAS a motivating candidate, and an awful lot (IDK a percentage) of his people were voting FOR him- they weren't just voting to keep Hillary OUT, they were voting to put him IN.
That was the difference in this election. You can take all the emails, Benghazi, the p%^sy grabbing, all of it, and throw it our the window. The bottom line is Trump energized his supporters and Hillary did not. So, rather than spending millions of taxpayer dollars on recounts in blind hope of some kind of election overturn, the dems should instead be looking in their ranks for people who CAN energize the voters- Bernie certainly did! He was just too stark-raving mad (fiscally) to be electable. Obama certainly did- and not just because he was "the first black president"... people genuinely LIKED him. Even moderates. Nobody LIKES Hillary. Never have. If the dems want to win the next one, especially if Trump does well (in which case I don't think it's possible for him to lose), you need to find a candidate people feel good about voting FOR, instead of just someone "better then they have."
From above: "Hey, nothing wrong with demonizing a politician... firstly, that's what free speech is."
Definitely we should not be demonizing politicians or anyone else. Few people are as bad as all that, and for those that are, they will demonize themselves. Sure, free speech means we have the legal right to do it, but having a right to do it does not mean that doing it is therefore a good thing.
JR I disagree. The electoral college is necessary for exactly the reasons you stated. I never said the system didn't work. Dump was insinuating that it is suspect but only if he lost. Talk about wanting to have it both ways. The reason I have doubts is because I cannot believe half the people would vote for a disgusting piece of filth. And with every new appointment I get more horrified. God help us because I sincerely doubt Dump will. And yes she is no angel but come on, isn't EVERY politician a crook in one way or another? That's the way it works unfortunately.
Trump is going to do away with Medicaid, altogether. 5400 people, in Warren county alone, are going to lose access to healthcare, shelter and food. A lot of these folks are working at minimum wage, part time jobs, due to lack of available full time jobs. Some people just fall on hard times, through no fault of their own, and our government is FOR THE PEOPLE, by the people. Not for the wealthy, by the wealthy, by giving them so many tax breaks, that our country just doesn't have the funds to help those, without a voice. Another fellow human being, that feels pain and suffering, just like all of us. Stop Medicaid, right off the bat? What kind of heartless, sleazy thing to do... and announces around the holidays. God only knows what he's got planned, next. Funny... his advisors are mainly bankers and business owners. Not independent financial planners or auditors. He has a business partner, who is connected to the keystone pipeline, so he's pushing it along. Letting his kids run his businesses, like he's never going to talk to them? Yeah... right. Not showing his taxes. Who cares, you say? Well I do. It's a traditional thing that presidential candidates do. What's he hiding? If nothing, then it shouldn't be a problem. I just can't believe SO many people are turning a blind eye, to obvious conflicts of interest. Do you Trump supporters really think voting in a wealthy, trailer trash, money boo boo, who has a meltdown over twitter, into the Whitehouse, is going to make this country great? For ALL Americans? OMG...
"The reason I have doubts is because I cannot believe half the people would vote for a disgusting piece of filth."
And half the country can't believe the other half voted for a lying, corrupt, criminal with blood on her hands. But then, that's why we have elections.
"Trump is going to do away with Medicaid,"
Sure. ok. Let us know when he does that.... (BTW, he's never said it, it's not what his platform is- look at his website-, and it's not going to happen. Unless he comes up with a universal/socialist healthcare system that makes medicaid redundant and unnecessary, and that is very unlikely- VERY unlikely- to happen.)
How about you haters let the guy get sworn in before you trash him for things he hasn't even done yet...
I just wish Trump wasn't so easily butt-hurt by any form of criticism. Sending out tweets complaining about Saturday Night Live and Alec Baldwin's impression of him? Really? And complaining that China didn't show President Obama respect by giving him a metal staircase to Air Force One, and insisting that if he doesn't have a red carpet on the stairs when he gets to China, he'll just close the door and fly back home...Really? This guy has the thinnest skin in the world.
"And complaining that China didn't show President Obama respect by giving him a metal staircase to Air Force One"
To be fair, there were several people in Obama's staff (and other world leaders) that also complained about the whole reception in China, as the red carpeted stairs WERE rolled out for other visiting presidents/prime ministers/etc. the next morning.
Nothing happens by mistake in China at these kinds of events.
"before you trash him for things he hasn't even done yet..." Because this guy Trump likes to toss crap to see if it sticks. Not haters, just providing feedback as his bombastic statements are intended to illicit.
And you're right, Trump's plan calls for "following free market principles and working together to create sound public policy that will broaden healthcare access, make healthcare more affordable and improve the quality of the care available to all Americans." Sounds nice, makes me want to weep. Until you think about healthcare and free market principles. Anyone else feel they are in a free market as they pack you into the ambulance and carry you away? The healthcare market will never follow free market principles except for discretionary treatments. Nice idea though. Sounds good, looks swell, we need a hat.....
Trump's numero uno action is to "1.Completely repeal Obamacare." Trump got feedback on that crap. It won't stick, he lied. Today that apparently means repeal the parts of ObamaCare that either don't work or that we don't like. Keep the good stuff.... How do you define good stuff? Depends who tweets The Donald.
His second priority: "2.Modify existing law that inhibits the sale of health insurance across state lines. As long as the plan purchased complies with state requirements," Uh....it can be sold today across state lines as long as it complies with state requirements..... Success Donald! Keep knockin em out of the park. I am pretty sure this "state requirements" statement was added to the original web site plan recently no doubt after Trump got the feedback.
Jumping to number 6: "6.Block-grant Medicaid to the states." That's the discussion point on Medicaid. Especially since combined with ObamaCare repeal, this would deny Medicaid to millions currently covered by the ObamaCare Medicaid Expansion component. Might want to workaround that one. The rest of the discussion for us is the basic federal versus state management via block grants discussion but to help your assessment realize that insurance companies like block-grants....
Since Trump's plan went in place (and the edits....) Trump appointed Price to lead HHS who believes that insurance should be deniable based on pre-existing conditions. That, as well as other Price gems, seems worthy of discussion since he hates all of the ObamaCare things most people agree with. He also has a bill on file to repeal ObamaCare including the Medicaid expansion component. This would deny Medicaid to millions in 31 States that took advantage. His plan seems worthy of discussion given he will lead Trump's healthcare efforts.
And then Trump appointed a Consultant, wait isn't that like a Lobbyist without a cause? A consultant to run Medicaid, Seema Verma put a Medicaid plan together for Price in Indiana to take advantage of the ObamaCare Medicaid expansion which hallmarks Medicaid recipients pitching in on the costs. They call that "personal responsibility." Patients call it too complex to be workable. Additionally bad choices like repeat visits to ER carry penalties. There are also incentives for preventive healthcare. What is preventative healthcare? A yearly physical. What else? Hmmm, personal responsibility operational via paying more with government-chosen penalties and incentives at the point of the Federal Gun.... Oh well, they're poor... So, favored expansion but wants the poor to pay more --- mixed bag.
There might actually be merit to this if it expands Medicaid to the other 19 states. However, the Pence/Verma Medicaid Experiment is too soon for results so Trump is picking the untested and unproven here in many ways. Again, all well worthy of discussion.
IMHO, there's a number of worthy discussion points in Trump pre-swearing-in activities and plans especially given his penchant for testing ideas via his own policy statements.
These are the types of folks we need to put in Jail and/or deport:
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2016/12/alleged_brothel_enforcer_pleads_not_guilty_to_2_mu.html#incart_2box_nj-homepage-featured
Anyone else tired of the stuff going on with no end in sight. These criminals from third worlds are like parasites that need to be dealt with -- not ignored...
Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see where the article stated this suspect was an immigrant. Do you know something more than the article states?
My niece lives in AZ. Violent crime by illegal immigrants is frequent there. She sees it all the time in the local news. No surprise MSM media isn't interested.
"It took TIME three paragraphs to accuse Trump of racism. It took TIME four paragraphs to compare him to Joe McCarthy."
This was a hit piece.
Via TIME Magazine:
"This is the 90th time we have named the person who had the greatest influence, for better or worse, on the events of the year. So which is it this year: Better or worse? The challenge for Donald Trump is how profoundly the country disagrees about the answer.
It’s hard to measure the scale of his disruption. This real estate baron and casino owner turned reality-TV star and provocateur—never a day spent in public office, never a debt owed to any interest besides his own—now surveys the smoking ruin of a vast political edifice that once housed parties, pundits, donors, pollsters, all those who did not see him coming or take him seriously. Out of this reckoning, Trump is poised to preside, for better or worse."
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/12/time-mag-names-donald-trump-man-year-vicious-hit-piece/
check out the TIME covers for person of the year from 1992, 2000, 2004, 2008, and 2012 (all for clinton, bush, and obama)...all regular looking covers and they all have 'PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES' to describe them...and no backhanded moniker like 'president of the divided states'
Meanwhile, companies and countries are already lining up to speak with Trump. It has become apparent that Obama had no interest in making an impact and they were waiting on the sideline for a change. This is a renaissance moment for the United States and the world.
Now there are players all over the world that feel they can get a piece of the pie. This is their one moment to make their pitch. To get their piece they must provide incentives to the the American people.
With each negotiation Trump completes, the more momentum he will gain. Companies are already looking at Carrier, Boeing and Softbank and analyzing what happened in those situations. So far, it appears, Carrier and Boeing aren't fully buying in. They are waiting to see what support they will receive. They will soon realize they either make deals that appease the American people or they will be passed over in time. Softbank is a company that seems to gets it. Make a real commitment and get a place at the table. There's going to be lots of Softbank's in the future.
Trump seems totally open to discussion, with anyone including Pakistan, Taiwan and Russia. He seems to be opening a dialogue with every country that wishes to collaborate - giving them a clean slate and hearing what they have to say regardless of some unspoken rules concocted during a different era in history.
I'm really excited for this country going forward.
Trump names Scott Pruitt to head the EPA. Is there any doubt that he will soon be naming Charles Manson to head the FBI's Behavioral Analysis Unit?
Just shows you how dumb some of those lawyers (Pruitt) are, no logic just case law. Denying that Climate Change is occurring and man is contributing to it is like believing in a fairy tale...
Just read the reefer madness situation may be coming to a screeching halt......Thank god if something can destroy this country from the inside out its a stoned populace...I wonder if that was part of the plan???
Hagopian And believing that solar and wind (and NOT nuke) will power the planet is like believing in a fairy tale.
BTW- you know where the power comes from that "environmentally friendly" electric cars run on? Coal, Gas, and Nuke. ROFL
Jr. musings that sound about the same in or out of context. Self-inflicted hit piece LOL, ROFL, :>)
“All that political spin aside...” What spin? You mean facts that don’t fit your narrative?
Unlike the razor sharp no-spin in-your-face analysis of the Carrier factory save, “BTW, as for failures, don't forget Obamacare.” How about New Coke. Now there was a failure…. Or maybe the Titanic.
“Unless you've got a bunch of commie libs writing the history books (which is usually the case)” Which is why Jr. don’t need no stinkin history books. Jr. believes incongruent facts are spin and just loves a red herring :>)
“for something to be considered "name calling", it has to be UNTRUE...” Ah, the Jr. Acid Logic Test. Yup, he acts like he's on acid.
“Also BTW, when Obama won, I wasn't rioting in the streets and burning things down.” You must be name calling because this is just blatantly UNTRUE. http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/presidential-campaign/305749-republicans-employ-double-standard-to-discredit Plenty more for other protests, hate crimes and acts of violence.
“I wasn't calling for arbitrary recounts” Ah, you mean like Florida in 2012….
“I am a libertarian…leaning conservative fiscally and leaning liberal socially.” Coffee spew alert! Turns out, I am a liberal who is fiscally conservative and liberal in social programs. Once difference: I don’t lean. There's no ambivalence. Would love to hear Jr.’s socially liberal leanings…..at least one. I don’t know what oligarchy means but anyone saying after the Trump election that we are in one is ____________ (fill in this blank with any name you like since it is true.)
“Or costing the taxpayers millions for recounts that don't matter.” How much, millions? I thought Stein was paying.
“Interesting... because Trump winning DID restore faith in the election process, to HALF the country.” Actually, perhaps HALF of the voting country but certainly no where even remotely close to 50% of the country…..more like 25%.
“Hillary's recount amounts to crybaby sore-losering.” Name calling so it must be true :>) Now do you mean that or are you just leaning?
“The other half may not, but the only way they can think that is to disagree with the electoral college, and would instead prefer mob rule/popular vote.” Yes, if you disagree with the electoral college, you prefer mob rule which is the same as the popular vote…. Makes sense….Acid Test.
“Clinton was not a motivating candidate. People didn't want to vote FOR her. They were merely voting against Trump.” It’s like Jr. is in our heads with all he knows about other people. Amazing.
“Nobody LIKES Hillary. Never have.” Not even her mother? That’s so sad…
But the best was last: "And believing that solar and wind (and NOT nuke) will power the planet is like believing in a fairy tale. BTW- you know where the power comes from that "environmentally friendly" electric cars run on? Coal, Gas, and Nuke. ROFL" Actually electric cars also run on sun and wind generated solar too. But again, that's a red herring when the discussion is about the success, which is a fact that you call spin, of the Stimulus energy program as noted above.
And yes, I believe in fairy tales like evolving off of fossil fuels into cleaner forms of energy. Renewable forms would be best. You perhaps are busing leaning over for big oil and coal.
I think my head is exploding - and - unfortunately - in these times - that may be the good news
Hey, SD- I totally believe in developing alternate fuel sources, INCLUDING NUCLEAR.
What I am against is the murder of the fossil fuel industry BEFORE we HAVE a viable alternative. Right now, the only viable alternative is nuclear, which the hippies/lefties/progressives don't want either. Sorry, but solar and wind ain't going to power the world, at least not yet or in the near future. And since we don't have any of John Galt's motors in existence yet, the energy has to come from somewhere.
Trying to regulate and tax coal (et al) out of existence to "force people" (give them "incentive") to use alternate forms of energy is like making the cost of antibiotics prohibitive in an effort to force people (give them "incentive") to stop spreading venereal disease.
BTW- I haven't seen a fighter jet or tank yet that runs on electricity. Still gonna' need that evil fossil fuel....
More jobs and more confidence coming back to America. And Trump hasn't even been sworn in yet.
http://money.cnn.com/2016/12/07/technology/translux-manufacturing-trump/
Hmmm this sounds like a win win. I'm sure SD will come out with a negative spin on it.
"About 60% of Trans-Lux's production was already in the U.S. -- in a 68,000-square-foot plant that employs 75 people in Des Moines, Iowa. Trans-Lux had been planning to shift more production back to the U.S., and a few months ago it begin using a refurbished former Ford Motor factory in St. Louis, Missouri."
If 60% of production is performed by 75 employees, does that mean this will result in an increase of 50 factory jobs? I guess we can cancel the unemployment program, lol....
The point is ianimal, if enough companies do this, it is a good thing for our country.
50 jobs at $12.50 an hour. I think it's safe to say that America is great again, lol.
https://www.glassdoor.com/Hourly-Pay/Trans-Lux-Hourly-Pay-E1039.htm
It's pretty great for those 50 people that now/still have a job.
$12.50 is a heck of a lot better than $0.00.
Well, at least we know you're a liberal now Ian. Despite all your talk of being some kind of moderate/libertarian. We've actually known for awhile, but you're extremely good at hiding it.
Trans-Lux is, I believe, time will tell, a marker of things to come. In the grand scheme, they could considered a small business (altho nowhere near as small as mine! LOL), and it's not secret that the current administration has NOT been a friend to small business... actually, business of any kind... except for ones who promote "clean energy" then go bankrupt and cost the taxpayers 2.2 BILLION dollars...
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/apr/27/obama-backed-green-energy-failures-leave-taxpayers/
I'm a liberal because I can perform simple arithmetic? I didn't know that was a primary criterion. Conservatives must be even more stupid than people suspect.
You're a liberal because you always paint the blackest picture of the conservative side of any argument, yet I have not seen you perform the same favor for the liberal side of any arguments. But as I said, you hide it well.
If somebody pointed to 50 essentially minimum wage jobs created by Obama as a major accomplishment, I would ridicule that as well. As would you...
Besides, what happened to your espoused theory that I was an "arrogant know-it-all" BECAUSE I ridiculed both liberals AND conservatives? Remember that one? Make up your mind...
Considering $51,000 per year is the average annual household income, I'd say a lot of people would take $12.50 per hour. Two people making that average that much per year. I was let go from a job at the end of 2013. I knew in June of 2013 that my office was closing down. I didn't find anything in my field until September of 2014. A lot of jobs I interviewed for I was overqualified for. For 3 months prior to that, I had to work a minimum wage job or I would have had no income coming in. I would have gladly taken $12.50 per hour while I looked for work in my field. So don't minimize this ianimal. You don't know how bleak it is until you have to go through it yourself.
Actually, I'm a pretty well-outed libertarian who hasn't changed much politically in the last 15-20 years. You're a wanna-be libertarian who talks about bringing down the Republicrat duopoly and then blindly votes Republican in every election. You're one of those self-loathing Republicans; you know in your heart of hearts that Republicans are scum and you don't want to associate yourself with them. But yet, there you are. It's probably the primary source of your anxiety.
Yup...I expected a thread about anxiety, soon after that deplorable, trailer trash Trump was elected. Six bankruptcies (that we know of), three marriages and 9 kids (that we know of). Yet, never worked at a minimum wage job. Amazing.... really anyone CAN be president!
Now the guy he wants to head up the Department of Labor, is the CEO of restaurants and is AGAINST raising the minimum wage... more conflicts of interest. Attacking the union leader.... the guy who can't even afford decent teeth, for collecting union dues?
Trump is draining the swamp and replacing it with a cesspool. People who love "dirty pollutants", running the EPA... that don't even believe global warming is REAL. The noble peace prize is not given out, based on "opinions".
Hillary won by 2.5 million votes, but a two hundred year old law gave Trump the election. Are we sure Trump used to be a democratic? Maybe, but he did admit that if he were ever to run for president, he would run as a republican, because "republicans are dumb enough to believe what republicans tell them." Now, all the republicans that denounced Trump all summer, are his buddies again. I knew all that fighting was part of his "reality show", put there for our entertainment purposes only. And for more free "branding".
"Hillary won by 2.5 million votes, but a two hundred year old law gave Trump the election."
Except the popular vote lead was not spread evenly across all states. Losing CA (for example) whether by 1 vote or 4 million is the same thing, so why would he waste time scrounging for 2.5 million there when that time is better spent *winning* other states altogether?
Is it the team that has the best inning that wins, or the one that has the best overall game?
Can anyone tell me how this CEO who is against wage and overtime protection is gonna help the average worker? Oh let me guess, when he stacks the deck in favor of businesses making their profits even bigger, they're gonna let it trickle down to the workers, uh huh. Do you know why businesses and banks and Wall Street need to be regulated? Because you can't count on ANY one of them doing the right thing. Good luck getting a good paying job! Hardy har har.
Sparks, pretty sure that Trump quote about dumb republicans is bogus.
Also, since popular vote is not the contest to be won, we probably should not use the word "won" when describing Clinton's larger vote total. Okay to say she got the most votes, though.
As to whether Trump would have won the popular vote if that was the contest, it's plausible, but Clinton would have campaigned differently also. So Clinton would be a favorite to have won it, I think, but we'll never know of course.
Trump's first official action as President will be to pardon Bernie Madoff and appoint him head of the Treasury.
This is hilarious. It reminds me of the Vote for Sanjaya movement that Howard Stern started. Trump appears to be deliberately appointing the worst possible person for each position, lol.
ianimal, please tell me you're joking.
Are we all part of some elaborate "punked" episode?
Tracy Draining the swamp, Make Amerika Great Agin, everybody need a high paying factory job? He's so rich he doesn't need to steal your money....
Trump's hotels meanwhile are booking lavish government functions as players try to woo Trump via money in his pockets. Trump continues to work in the free world and will be the Executive Producer for next seasons Celebrity Apprentice starring Governor Arnold... Ivanka stopped working in the free world and has stepped down from Trumpco although she probably still retains ownership making her as removed from the business as The Donald. Not. Now she and hubby Jared can take on important roles in Trump's administration. Ivanka may become first lady in residence as Melania will be in NYC. Jared and Ivanka are moving to DC to become swamp-owners.
You remember Ivanka: she and Jared participated in a meeting between Trump and Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe while simultaneously negotiating with Japanese company Sanei International which owned in part by the Japanese government.
Trump's administration will be the richest in history. We are being led by the silver spoon brigade. Trump has supposedly sold his stock portfolio although there is no real proof except Donald's word and that's worth crap. His cabinet will be allowed to divest all conflict of interest holdings without paying any capital gains --- there's taxpayer loss number one while the cabinet profits and profits....
In the Carrier deal, important to note that Trump is a stockholder....
Watch the Deutsche Bank deal, Trump's largest and last remaining loaner that he has been in for billions. Other banks have avoided him but given he indicates a free hand for them, they might come around. Deutsche Bank is facing a $14B settlement with the US Gov and has other financial woes beyond getting paid by The Donald. We will see how far loyalty goes with what the new AG does with this.
Trump has probably already profited off the election and is quoted as saying he might be the first President to run and make money on it. He used mostly TrumpCo facilities to travel, communicate, feed, and house his campaign running up millions in expenses paid to TrumpCo, no doubt at exorbitant fees. His charter has one of the most expensive per mile rates for example.
His tax plan will net his family $3B in tax relief representing a total loss to you, the taxpayer who gets no relief which will make him the largest profiteer from the office to date. The stock market run up is already the effect of his beginning to pick the winners and losers and so far, infrastructure, finance and real estate seem to be the HUGE winners and the rest of the free market --- not so much so far. Hope you bought some Fannie Mae stock.....
Donald Trump just announced that Phillip Morris CEO Andre Calantzopoulos will be the next Surgeon General. His first action will be to take those silly warning labels off of Marlboros because it's bad for business and costs jobs. Just think how many more jobs there would be if we got the smoker percentage back up close to 50%. 17% isn't great and it isn't creating jobs.
I wonder how much the ticket costs to travel to whatever planet SD lives on... 'cause it certainly ain't this one!
"In the Carrier deal, important to note that Trump is a stockholder...."
So, wouldn't allowing them to move to China have been a *better* decision as a stockholder? Reduced labor costs = higher profits = better stock price, right?
Besides, your favorite web site says that claim is false anyway... if anything he makes a whopping $2-5K in interest on previous holdings.
http://www.snopes.com/donald-trump-carrier-stock/
"Just think how many more jobs there would be if we got the smoker percentage back up close to 50%. 17% isn't great and it isn't creating jobs."
Where's that Libertarian in you? Shouldn't it be a personal choice to smoke or not?
Contrary to some here, I think SD's latest is informative and entertaining. (His posts are often too long, agree, on the other hand a lot of issues require more than 140 characters.) :)
" Where's that Libertarian in you? Shouldn't it be a personal choice to smoke or not?"
Of course it should. Where did I say that it shouldn't?
"Where did I say that it shouldn't?"
Inferred from your sarcastic comment about cigarette warning labels. To me that implies that you feel the government should be involved in the smoking "discussion" in some manner.
So what if the next surgeon general DID remove that labeling requirement? Doesn't that put the decision (and responsibility to determine the risks) back between cigarette companies and private customers again? Which, to me, would be the Libertarian position.
A label doesn't infringe upon someone's ability to smoke. There is nothing contrary to libertarianism about being informed about potential hazards and making a personal decision (and accepting responsibility for that decision) based on facts.
But that has very little to do with the joke I was making... which was that Trump's obvious choice for Surgeon General is the head of the world's largest tobacco company.
can it get any better than this? https://www.yahoo.com/news/potential-trump-cabinet-pick-defends-spreading-fake-stories-im-not-a-news-source-160007693.html?soc_src=social-sh&soc_trk=fb
Yes, it can.... let the SPIN begin!!!
http://freedomdaily.com/obama-said-no-terror-attacks-happened-on-his-watch-on-u-s-soil-heres-complete-list-lets-remind-him/
New rule: when you use the word "spin," you have to prove it....
Example: I said: "In the Carrier deal, important to note that Trump is a stockholder...."
Mark Mc. responded: "Besides, your favorite web site says that claim is false anyway... if anything he makes a whopping $2-5K in interest on previous holdings. http://www.snopes.com/donald-trump-carrier-stock/\"
I think he could have labelled that spin and he backed it up nicely.
Mark: yes, I went a little jr-ian in that although nothing I said was false, he does own stock or did until very recently. It just wasn't the complete story (I was saving space :>) I had read how little it was worth, did have any quid-pro-quo, even a qpq theory, and frankly, I have already noted that Trump had said he sold his portfolio although there is no proof as to what that means or did it really happen.
Yes, JR, the site you posted is spinning it. Obama did not say what they say he said. Read the quote.
Still, he should not have gone there, so I agree with that part of it.
Speaking of spin, Trump is the master having spun Cruz's fathers involvement in the Kennedy assassination, McCain's not being a hero, etc., etc. Some pretty outlandish crap that he has spun his way in to and out of.
But there may be a reason. It may be that Trump supporters are just stupid.
New poll: http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2016/12/trump-remains-unpopular-voters-prefer-obama-on-scotus-pick.html
Some highlights: "40% of Trump voters insist that he won the national popular vote to only 49% who grant that Clinton won it and 11% who aren't sure."
"29% (of Trump supporters) don't think they (the state of California) should be allowed to count (in the popular vote), and another 18% are unsure."
"73% of Trump voters think that George Soros is paying protesters against Trump"
"14% of Trump supporters think Hillary Clinton is connected to a child sex ring run out of a Washington DC pizzeria. Another 32% aren't sure one way or another"
"67% of Trump voters say that unemployment increased during the Obama administration, to only 20% who say it decreased."
"Only 41% of Trump voters say that the stock market went up during the Obama administration. 39% say it went down, and another 19% say they're not sure."
You can't make it up.
A poll is a snapshot in time. It is very possible, likely even, that Hillary was winning (i.e. ahead) at various moments in time before the election. That doesn't make the poll "wrong". The poll does not predict.
Survey of 1,224 registered voters of which 46% were Democrats, 59% considered themselves very liberal to moderate. HMMM.
Your point, kb?
My point is that a poll showing Clinton ahead (not "winning") at some point in time may have been fine. I'm certainly not saying that all the polls were fine. Obviously some were pretty well done and some were not.
My point is SD and the polsters were making a point of how stupid the Trump supporters were, yet 46% of those responding were Democrats and 59% were considered liberal to moderates. Clearly the poll was not just taken from people that voted for Trump.
What it does show is that there are a lot of real dumb mother$*&#@$s in this country, on both sides.
Something we all agree on - I'll take these moments where they happen - dummies for everyone
Hmm... maybe there WAS some voter fraud/hacking being done... but not by "the Russians", lol.... but by the Department of Homeland Security... of course, it could have been made to LOOK like that by hackers, but it's still a scary precedent.
http://www.theblaze.com/news/2016/12/09/georgia-says-it-has-traced-a-voter-hacking-attempt-back-to-the-dhs/
I prefer to say closed-minded and selfish people, not dummies per se. Reason being most folks perspective is necessarily "what am *I* getting, rather than recognizing the varied nature of human beings' individual perspectives and that it's impossible for any one person to know what's best for anyone else. Regardless of team choice btw.
Looking at the current environment it is blatantly obvious, to me at least, that emotion is driving *everything* today. Everything. Not sure what else could be the case when our collective focus is based on pure, unadulterated propaganda (aka BS) on all sides. Talk about scary!
Reality seems to be something that doesn't exist in our society, for we collectively allow our news sources to keep doling crap instead of insisting on unbiased and real information that is untainted by "their" opinion, whoever "they" may be.
Polls? Polls are never accurate unless you have a representative sample which, in the case of human beings, is nearly impossible when the poll is about an emotional subject. Cognitive dissonance indeed!
You say "close minded" but that sounds rather PC and overly polite.
"nearly impossible when the poll is about an emotional subject. "
Except job numbers and stock market figures are not "emotional subjects" but facts.
If a person (liberal, conservative, whatever) believes that the stock market has gone down under Obama's two terms, or that unemployment has gone up since 2008, then you are either a terribly uninformed or willfully ignorant person. Stupidity is saying one thing when reality contradicts what you've said with cold, hard facts.
You are just too kind, JIT :)
"Polls? Polls are never accurate unless you have a representative sample which, in the case of human beings, is nearly impossible when the poll is about an emotional subject. Cognitive dissonance indeed!"
Alrighty then....
As jd2 noted, polls are a snapshot in time. In this case they called for a 3-point Clinton win with a trend for Trump closing that gap on her. In a close single-point spread, given the electoral college, the unfavorable ratings for both candidates, the lack of voters response (undecided) to the pollsters, the fact that the polls were off by a few points in the popular but by a electoral mile for the Trump win is not exactly a breakdown in polling.
The final score was within the polls margin of error.
The poll I provided was also a snapshot in time. "My point is SD and the polsters were making a point of how stupid the Trump supporters were, yet 46% of those responding were Democrats and 59% were considered liberal to moderates." Well, KB makes an interesting point that this poll included Democrats. However, the data points I gleaned were only Trump supporters and did not include Democrats. Actually when you looked at the Hillary voters only, they did not share the same fact base as Trump supporters to the point that when you looked at both Hill/Don voters, the answers were not stupid. It was only when you parsed out the Trump supporters did you find brilliance like California's votes should not count in the popular tally and the other brilliant responses.
"What it does show is that there are a lot of real dumb mother$*&#@$s in this country, on both sides." While I am sure this is true, did you actually see that in this poll? Because I do not.
Just because both sides responded does not mean they responded the same. The poll did reveal an interesting look on reality by Trump supporters at the percentage points shown. Not all Trump supporters feel that way. But few Hillary responders were even in the ballpark of believing the facts as a good percentage of Trump supporters see them. And I theorize that this might be why Trump can get away with the lies and spin that he abundantly blasts out over the airwaves.
Like saying the Carrier Union head is a useless, incompetent spokesperson who is doing such a bad job that the members should ask for their dues back. His Trump crime was accurately correcting Trump's blatant lies on the number of jobs saved. I mean this guy just lost hundreds of jobs even with the Trump save and Trump is wailing on him for being right...... And Trump gets away with wrongly bashing this blue collar worker. He gets away with it because they believe. They believe some really weird stuff.
"They believe some really weird stuff."
This may be because some on the right (e.g. talk radio) have been bashing traditional news sources for years, such that many now go to alternate sources. And the resulting problem then may be summarized by re-purposing a Churchill quote, as follows:
The mainstream media is the worst source for news, except for all the other sources.
"Word is that Exxon CEO Tex Tillerson will be named Secretary of State. A man with no experience in government but who's company will benefit from a half trillion dollar business deal with Russia that previously could not be completed due to the economic sanctions against Russia. So here you have it, Russia got what it wanted. Tillerson will lift the economic sanctions against Russia so they can complete the business deal and begin drilling. Tillerson just happens to also be the recipient of the highest award that a non Russian citizen can receive for being the strongest friend to Russia."
"An extraordinary breach has emerged between President-elect Donald J. Trump and the national security establishment, with Mr. Trump mocking American intelligence assessments that Russia interfered in the election on his behalf, and top Republicans vowing investigations into Kremlin activities."
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/10/us/politics/trump-mocking-claim-that-russia-hacked-election-at-odds-with-gop.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0
Tex is an interesting choice, don't think the Russian connections will slow him down much. Also don't think having only one job will matter given the magnitude of his work in different positions in the Exxon environment. Certainly this is a swamp drain and it remains to be seen whether the first SoS without any diplomatic experience will work. Time will tell. Could be extraordinary.
Guy has been a social trendsetter in the Exxon environment. Actually might be the best oil man on global warming, has made a number of concessions to that as head of Exxon. Unlike Trump, he supports the Paris agreement for example. Fostered acceptance of gays for the BSA organization. Supported Jeb Bush for President.
When it comes to swamp draining, this will be a nice test of whether that makes sense.
True or not,I'm glad the info came out no matter who is responsible.
It's this or that and now the Russians as an excuse for HC losing the election.
With Hillary and her followers,it's always someone else's fault.
How about the fact that voters in 32 states felt she was a lousy candidate with a lot of baggage?
Enough with the loss excuses.
All I can say is I finally agree with Hillary when she said...
People really believe the whole Russian thing? No doubt there's some normal spy stuff going on (same as we are doing) but to say they influenced the election - all this "fake news" nonsense? Would need some definitive proof before I'd believe that...
Generally where there's smoke there's fire and it's hardly coincidental that there are so many nominations with extremely close ties to Putin or that he has significant financial links to Russia. Whether the intent was to help him win who knows - those ties should be examined and the outrage from the right would have been deafening had it been Clinton/Obama. Evan McMullin has had some good tweets and even Joe Walsh had a moment of lucidity http://www.mediaite.com/online/joe-walsh-goes-on-tweetstorm-against-russian-hackers-and-no-one-can-believe-it/. If there's nothing to see then an investigation should be a no-brainer.
Lots of speculation and still waiting for some facts. The CIA "report" isn't exactly factual as much as it is speculative, even if there is basis for the speculation.
But even if Russia stoked the fire it was no more so than all the internal BS that was peddled within the US during the lead up to the election.
Just remember that propaganda knows no borders. Let me repeat that: Propaganda knows no borders. There was (and still is) so much crap peddled as truth that all of it is in reality nothing more than cherry-picked facts dressed in Red or Blue flavors. IOW, the big picture still plays second fiddle to duopoly politics.
BTW, since I despise the use of the phrase "conspiracy theory" because it's used primarily to emote a certain response, I won't use it here. However I will say that suspecting links to Russia on the part of Trumps nominees comes awfully close to my wanting to use it. ;-)
Bigger picture is that Trump is on track to do some real damage to our economy. Not just because he's putting big business in the driver seat but because he's full-on crazy when it comes to fiscal irresponsibility, at least based on his statements to date...
of course the left is foaming at the mouth still about this election.
She won the popular vote! (irrelevant)
Russia chose to only make Hillary look bad so Trump would win! (no evidence)
and on and on...
I find it hilarious that the left thinks/claims the russians hacked into or election to help Trump win, but that all of Hillary's classified emails on her personal server were COMPLETELY SAFE AND UNSEEN BY ANYONE.
ROFLMAO
It hurts to see such alternate realities at work. Can we agree on anything? How about these:
- It is not hard to believe that Russia wanted to see Trump win, for starters because he has thrown into doubt the necessity for NATO, which Russia detests.
- SOMEBODY hacked into the DNC and provided troves of e-mails to Wikileaks.
- The CIA has not said that Trump won because of Russian interference, only that the intent was there.
- It's possible that Clinton's server was hacked. So far no evidence of that has been seen. She was very wrong to use her own server.
Anything to disagree about here?
This article gives a good overview of the DNC and John Podesta's e-mail hacks. Needless to say what they found is disturbing from my point of view. Politics is a nasty game.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-john-podesta-emails-released-by-wikileaks/
Alternate realities? How so?
Your points are fine I think. My personal disagreement is with the extrapolation of those points that results in news outlets conveying Russian involvement as *fact* based only on circumstantial information. And of course all the resulting actions that stem from the non-confirmed "evidence" (pending legislation based on this current witch hunt, for instance).
As with most "conspiracy theories" there's always some truth but the conclusions are still BS until proven.
"It hurts to see such alternate realities at work."
That's my point- you know that, right?
Russia most likely DIDN'T hack into our election to help Trump win, and Hillary's private server probably WASN'T hacked for classified information. But any port in a storm, when you're trying to vilify the other side. It just burns me when people (in this case, the left) acts like the latter is "no big deal", but the former "is almost a reason to re-do the election."
While I'm certainly glad Trump won, I am under no illusions- I won't be a "Trump fanboy" unless he puts into place policies that actually start turning the country around. Until then, he's just another guy (now we can call him a "politician") with rich friends- JUST LIKE ALL OF THEM, ON BOTH SIDES.
As I have said from the beginning- no one KNOWS what is going to happen- everyone has educated (or not) GUESSES, and no one will know until we know... if America over the next few years starts improving (regardless of who Trump appoints for his cabinet), then he will be re-elected. If it doesn't, he won't.
from NJ News 12:
"Gov. Christie was offered several positions in President-elect Donald Trump's cabinet, but turned them all down.
CNN confirmed the report by NJ Advanced Media.
The list of rejected offers included Homeland Security secretary, Veterans Affairs secretary and U.S. ambassador to Italy. "
http://newjersey.news12.com/news/gov-christie-rejected-several-positions-in-president-elect-donald-trump-s-cabinet-1.12741699
I, for one, am GLAD. I don't trust Christie as far as I could throw him (pun intended.)
From above: "My personal disagreement is with the extrapolation of those points that results in news outlets conveying Russian involvement as *fact* based only on circumstantial information.", and
"Russia most likely DIDN'T hack into our election to help Trump win"
So what I am hearing from traditional media sources is simply that the CIA is saying that there is substantial evidence that the Russian government did some things with the intent of trying to help Trump win. It's per the CIA, which has a lot of information we don't know about. I agree that doesn't make it fact, but isn't it definitely something that has to be investigated further? How can we already say that the Russians most likely did not do this?
Note that I have heard no responsible source say that Trump won BECAUSE of Russian interference. Personally I don't believe they tipped the scales. (Well, maybe in Michigan, say, since it was so close there.)
" It just burns me when people (in this case, the left) acts like the latter (Hilary email server) is "no big deal"" Yeah, yeah, yeah, and you say Hillary supporters are just a bunch of crybaby whiners over losing the election in what Trump calls the greatest defeat in history.... As you whine about Hillary's transgression being ignored.... “The election ended a long time ago in one of the biggest Electoral College victories in history. It’s now time to move on and ‘Make America Great Again." ABC quoted the Trump team. A long, long, time ago..... Sleep, sleep my pretties....
""There's been no conclusive or specific report to say" Russia was trying to muddy the election." uh.....pants of fire? http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/dec/11/reince-priebus/priebus-falsely-claims-no-conclusive-report-whethe/
Yes, Hillary had an email server which was vulnerable yet no one can prove anything was stolen.
Yes, the Russians hacked the DNC but there is no proof their goal was to elect Mr. Trump.
Yes, the Russians hacked the RNC but did not glean any good information.
In all cases, many, as well as Trump, declare that we really don't know this because our intelligence community is flawed using the Iraq WMD reports as proof. Apparently since 9/11, according to Trump, our intelligence community has not improved in it's ability to gather intelligence. Hopefully he will clean house there.
“These are the same people that said Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction,” “ABC quoting Trump team.
Personally I don't think they changed the outcome, however they do appear to have messed with our collective heads. They "outed" private emails which we all joyfully read as soon as they were posted. We seem to have no problem with any of that. Instead what the Russians got was a SoS that has been brokering deals and making billions with them for decades.
Bottom line: Russia hacks us and we spend our time crapping on each other. Trumpless but expected. When the message does not fit Donald's paradigm, then we crucify the messenger. Matter of fact, skip the intelligence briefings, Trump don't need no stinkin intelligence. Just call him if something big comes up.....
But my head exploded when Penis Riebus said: "Well, it might unnerve people who think that the best route for our country to go is to ignore people and to have an enemies list and adhere to that list. But look, I just don't believe, and neither does the president-elect, that solving the world's biggest problems are best done by ignoring people and having, you know, crummy relationships across the globe. And so we just don't believe that talking to people and having relationships is a bad thing."
Wait a second.....who's the liberal now? Isn't this Obama's line? And what happened when Obama opened discussions with.......
" I agree that doesn't make it fact, but isn't it definitely something that has to be investigated further?"
Of course, and that's why the CIA is and should be investigating. But like so many other things in today's world, speculation becomes fact in some people's mind when it's intertwined with opinion, and when that opinion comes from traditional media then it's clear we need to ask if what's being reported is fact or fiction. Or both (IMO true most of the time). Or if highlighting the speculative part is really just a way to further someone's agenda (nearly always true IMO).
It's pretty clear that Russia hacked us with the intent to disturb our election. Or our entire intelligence community is flawed.
It's conjecture as to whether they wanted one side or the other to win and whether there's a quid pro quo in Trump's SoS selection or other maneuvers. Pretty clear that they messed with us and while the effect can not be measured, no one can tell me that the WikiLeaks did not have a negative effect on the campaign. Yet combined with Hillary distrust, email server, foundation lies, foundation access to Hillary, impossible to measure. It certainly had effect if not for just being one more stone in the wall of Hillary negatives.
Just amazes me that Trump's approach is to kill the messenger instead of focusing on the guys fracking with one of our most sacred processes --- the election for President.
I mean Trump had enough info to out Ted Cruz's father for his involvement in the Kennedy assassination. He had enough info to see millions of Muslims cheering from the rooftops. He could see McCain as a loser for being captured. He could tell Mark Rubio's size by looking at his hands. But the Russians ---- man, don't you be saying bad stuff about them without proof and the CIA, DHS, and the other 15 intelligence agencies ---- well, that's not proof. They made a mistake once.
The CIA HAS investigated, now it's time for Congress. If the CIA is wrong, some kind of personnel change there is needed. If right, then the question becomes, what action needs to be taken.
If the government is going to just ridicule the findings, like Trump has done, then we may as well do away with the CIA and save the cost.
The CIA never said they had definitive proof, did they? Russian "actors" they are sure of based on the electronic trail, but the ties to the Russian government are not substantiated, are they? I think they were pretty clear about it too, or am I wrong about that? That's the last I heard about it.
Surely bad intel conclusions happen (WMD's anyone), especially when those conclusions help to justify a desired position. No?
Just look at how other posters in this thread present the info as 100% truth when in fact it's nothing of the sort. Like I said, fitting facts to a desired view is nothing new...
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/808299841147248640
"Can you imagine if the election results were the opposite and WE tried to play the Russia/CIA card. It would be called conspiracy theory!"
So because WaPo writes daily headlines that align with liberal views their anonymous sources are some how fact now? Even WaPo said the source doesn't have any direct evidence of the accusations. MSM has eroded their credibility to nothing, they are obviously pushing false stories just to fit the narrative they pushed previous to the election..
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2016/12/tell-russia-hacked-election.html
The NSA executive who created the agency’s mass surveillance program says this the Russians were not involved.
(parroting all the talking heads on the left, with the email server scandal and Benghazi):
NO PROOF! There's no proof. You have no PROOF. Drop it.
LOL
Everyone on here keeps saying that "the CIA said..."
First off, the CIA did NOT say anything of the sort (just try to find one source or interview...). It was a supposed "LEAK" by one, unnamed "member" of the CIA. But who?
I was watching MSNBC last night and they were talking about this as fact, but not one person on the panel said WHO from the CIA said this. And if the CIA REALLY feels this is true why had not ONE CIA member come forward, on the record in an interview anywhere to say "yes we think Russia was involved."
I can't believe we are all at the point where as long as someone states something that fits out narrative we believe it, without one single shred of real evidence, proof or professional vetting. It's to the point that someone from CNN can conjure up any bogus thing they want and as long as they say it in the context of the nightly "news" and have a "panel of experts" discussing it...well it MUST be fact.
Heidi JIT - Each incident doesn't always have the same source or probability of who did it. But the Podesta case they have made a direct link to Russia's Foreign Intelligence (GRU) unit called 'Fancy Bear'. Podesta got a fake link in an email that used a commercial service to shorten the link and hide that it wasn't really Google. As commercial, they turned over the origin of who created the link. They have the origin of the email, the origin of the creator of the tiny link, and the location of the website the link pointed to. They're not just "unknown Actors" located somewhere in Russia. They're a very specific organization with a trail right back to the Kremlin. They've been named both by the CIA as well as outside security companies. The attempts to hack the RNC isn't as clear but occurred at the same time, and the origin seems to be another GRU group called 'Cozy Bear'. That attack is suspicious and the evidence more circumstantial, but the Podesta attack is pretty well dead to rights.
kb's CBS News link above goes into part of it. This NY Times article talks about the independent outside verification:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/21/us/private-security-group-says-russia-was-behind-john-podestas-email-hack.html?_r=0
jd2, I already agreed with you that it should be pursued.
All I'm saying is that those who are "managing their message" are conveying their accusations based on circumstantial evidence AS FACT. Is that how we should base our collective decisions, on suppositions? Suppositions, mind you, that are the basis that those same people have been using to identify "fake news" as of late. What's good for the Goose is good for the Gander?
Believe what you want of course. Just recognize what your basing your belief upon.
Jill Stein's (ridiculous) recount effort has unearthed DEMOCRAT voter fraud (bet she wasn't expecting that, eh?)
http://www.youngcons.com/jill-steins-recount-just-accidentally-exposed-serious-voter-fraud-in-michigan-2/
I had heard of Fancy Bear and the Podesta emails GC, but thanks for the post.
Not sure that changes the gist of my initial post though, which is that people will cling to anything that appears to support their argument, fully vetted or not. All I'm saying is to not just take things at face value - look beyond to see motivations and justifications that are likely using said facts for personal gain. Isn't that the definition of propaganda lol
I can agree with that sentiment, JIT, and I believe we're at least partially saying the same thing. I thought it important to be able to separate the pure fact that in one case the direct tie to the government, not just Russians, was made. Yet what that means and for what purpose will always be a strict matter of opinion.
I guess this is the last thing I will say about this.
I jumped into this thread because I was surprised that some were so quick to dismiss the report. I was careful to say that what we seem to have is a serious concern to be looked into, not proof.
Yet what I get in response is things like "Believe what you want of course. Just recognize what your basing your belief upon."
Those who are quick to dismiss seem to be the ones with the strong beliefs (!); I just would like the matter to be investigated by Congress to see what we can find out about it. Beyond that, no beliefs.
So JR, that matter in Detroit also looks like a serious matter that needs to be looked into further, just like the Russian thing.
jd2, you're not getting arguments from me... I just want the people who thought Hillary's Benghazi and email scandals weren't worth looking into to feel the same way about the "russia hacking" thing. Let's see if the "Trump had russia's help" screamers also scream about the democrat voter fraud uncovered in MI...
These are dems being backed into a wall before the electoral college does what it's supposed to do and officially vote Donald Trump in as our next POTUS. They're sweating and will grasp at anything possible before they hit the wall. Personally I would like an investigation but didn't Obama say the results won't be released? What does that say? It says this will fuel speculation for the MSM to launch into a frenzy. Keep turmoil going as much as possible, for as long as possible.
"here was (and still is) so much crap peddled as truth that all of it is in reality nothing more than cherry-picked facts dressed in Red or Blue flavors. IOW, the big picture still plays second fiddle to duopoly politics" absolutely!!! Proof is irrelevant in this current media, rumor mill political climate -
Jeff - Stein's campaign has been reporting on DNC fraud all election... you must have missed it...
Trump Says He Doesn’t Need Daily Intelligence Briefings "I don’t have to be told the same thing in the same words every single day for the next eight years."
- Good point. The world is not rapidly changing and dynamic. It is static, and so are the briefings. I shouldn’t be sharing this, but I’ve actually seen today’s daily briefing:
England still insisting on imposing taxation with representation. '
Same as it ever was!
Obama would skip them as well if there was no new information- both of them have claimed separately that much of it is redundant. Breaking information gets right to them - both the president and president elect have faith in the intelligence agencies apparently
Most used phrase to work up the peeps. "Unnamed source's said", It is not fact. No sense looking for the source.
So many fun issues around this. First, JIT makes a good point: "when that opinion comes from traditional media then it's clear we need to ask if what's being reported is fact or fiction." NEW RULE: Media, traditional or not, needs to identify when they are reporting news or not. News has a particular model to follow where opinion and conjecture either does not appear or is labelled as such. News has general rules for sourcing and while unnamed sources can be used, multiple sources are required for any complex or controversial issue. Unnamed attributed sources, as in Deepthroat heard this from a friend, would be of low news value without conformational sources. If you are taking a flyer on a single unnamed source and you are wrong, you should lose your job.
Talk shows merging news with opinion should be labelled and recognized as such.
Fake news has always been with us, used to call it scuttlebutt, now we call it gospel.
We, as consumers, also have to be able to recognize the difference between news and opinion, fact and fiction. The latter getting a bit hard in our current times.
" I just want the people who thought Hillary's Benghazi and email scandals weren't worth looking into...." Who are those people? Certainly no one here, right?
"about the democrat voter fraud uncovered in MI..." I'm sorry. Did Jr find widespread voter fraud in MI that resulted in a whopping 162 vote change? It seems, although I could be wrong, that he was using fake news again. Because Wisconsin found no widespread voter fraud and the "serious" fraud you alluded to with hundreds of miscounts in Detroit seems to be your mistake. At least based on the final report.
Elections Commission Chairman Mark Thomsen said there was no evidence that any of the voting systems that were used to tabulate the votes on election night were hacked or tampered with.
And yet after the report, jr still says "Let's see if the "Trump had russia's help" screamers also scream about the democrat voter fraud uncovered in MI..." Oye. Even you're story couldn't conclude it was fraud or incompetence --- that one was on YOU and your paranoid paradigms.
Brian Williams open his show(the 11th Hour with Brian Williams) last night saying that all of the intelligence agencies have said that the Russians tried to influence the outcome of the election. Clearly not the truth.
Brian Williams ?!?!?! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
There are a MILLION of them! And for good reason!!!
Speaking of facts, it kinda bugs me that everyone says that the dnc was hacked, that Podesta was hacked. In the broad sense of the word it's true of course, but the reality is much more simple in that he and the others freely gave up their passwords. It's more akin to freely handing your house key to a fraudulent locksmith than it is to having a clandestine burglar break your door down. A minor point I suppose, but one that imputes some responsibility on those who were "hacked".
So a reminder to our kids: Don't blindly click on links without at least a little bit of thought!
https://goo.gl/gieBPN
lol Skippy.
Just trying to be funny. Hope you didn't think I'd really post a link to a virus or malware!
They hack us. We hack them. Our intelligence agencies should work on preventing it, not reporting it. Hillary lost the election on her own anyway.
Let's focus on more important mysteries. How is it that Kanye is blonder than the Donald???!!!
O Canada.....What a cabinet:
Minister of Health is a doctor.
Minister of Transport is an astronaut.
Minister of National Defense is a Sikh Veteran.
Minister of Youth is under the age of 45.
Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food is a former farmer.
Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness was a Scout.
Minister of Innovation, Science and Economic Development was a financial analyst.
Minister of Finance is a successful businessman.
Minister of Justice was a crown prosecutor and is a First Nations leader.
Minister of Sport, and Persons with Disabilities is a visually impaired Paralympian.
Minister of Fisheries and Oceans, and Canadian Coastguard is Inuit.
Minister of Science is a medical geographer with a PhD.
New titles include
Minister of Immigration, Citizenship and Refugees was an Immigration critic.
There are scientists in the cabinet, and it is made up of 50% women.
No didn't think that but if you send me a link and mention phishing in the same post ... I expected a Rick roll
I tell you what punjabi warriors are like midevial navy seals dude
You get the point. No need to prove your intellectual immaturity. Already demonstrated.
thanks for posting, Yankeefan - had seen that today and had cabinet envy at the least
Pay for play is apparently okay when it comes to the Trumps. "Yet Reuters later confirmed that Ivanka Trump — who is a key player in the family business — was also on the call. The very next day, the investment group building the $100 million Trump-branded tower in Buenos Aires announced that they were moving full speed ahead, and that they “just barely need to take care of a few administrative details.”
https://thinkprogress.org/there-is-a-lot-more-to-the-trump-argentina-story-e4a5026a959c#.xzbpsep3u
Yankeefan, I think they're crapping their pants right now. How about this one; give me all the names of the people who worked on climate change... Nothing nefarious there. All I can say is holy s**t! This is waaaayyy worse than could be imagined. Dump isn't even in yet and we're f****d already.
That does seem to be a pretty good cabinet there, up in the great white north. Cabinet envy indeed. But let's be honest- if some of you are able to be- it's not just miles above Trump's picks, but ALSO OBAMA's. And Bush's, for that matter. I don't even remember Clinton's cabinet at this point, but it could probably be included too.
So far, Trump seems to have gotten some right-
Gen. Mattis - SecDef
A retired four star Marine general, Mattis commanded US forces in the Middle East and Southwest Asia from 2010 to 2013, capping a career as a combat commander that earned him the nickname "Mad Dog." A scholar of warfare, he is said to have a particular interest in the challenge posed by Iran.
Gen. Kelley - Homeland Security
The retired Marine general most recently led the US Southern Command, which covers US military operations in Central and South America. He is expected to be very tough on illegal immigration and the illicit drugs trade.
WOMAN Betsy DeVos - Education
DeVos is a champion of alternatives to local government schools, backing a movement that advocates the use of tax credits and vouchers to allow parents to opt out of the public school system.
Health & Human services - former ortho Tom Price,
The Georgia lawmaker and former orthopedic surgeon is a robust critic of President Barack Obama's signature health care reform law, the Affordable Care Act.
...a good pick IF YOU RAN ON GETTING RID OF OBAMACARE.
Scott Pruitt - EPA...
The attorney general for the state of Oklahoma is a known climate change skeptic, and an ally of the fossil fuel industry. Before accepting the nomination, Pruitt spent much time battling the agency he is tapped to lead.
...actually, again- a good pick IF YOU RAN ON A PLATFORM THAT THE ALTERNATIVE ENERGY PUSH AND CONSEQUENT JOB LOSS AND HIGHER COSTS WERE BAD.
National Security Advisor - Gen. Flynn
A top military counsel to Trump, the retired three-star general, a veteran of America's wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, has courted controversy with extreme statements that critics say border on Islamophobia, but has taken a more flexible line on Russia and China.
...of course, the "line" where islamaphobia is drawn moves vastly depending on who is drawing it... and AGAIN- Trump GOT ELECTED by being hardline on islamic extremism, as everyone SHOULD be.
...Trump has picked FOUR women so far, one who is "other than caucasian". And of course his campaign manager was the first WOMAN to ever win a presidential campaign... but I don't hear you libs cheering those picks.
But the proof will be in the pudding. Y'all can sit here all day and type/criticize/pick apart his choices, but until they actual START WORKING, you have no idea how they will do. I can tell you this, as an examples:
if Pruitt gets those coal plant regulations straightened out, bringing those jobs back/keeping them from disappearing, the rust belt will go to Trump again in 2020.
http://www.governing.com/gov-data/energy-environment/coal-plants-to-shut-down-from-EPA-regulations.html
If there are no further attacks on US soil under Trump, he has a VERY good chance in 2020 (this would go to both Mattis and Kelley).
If Obamacare gets either replaced or tweaked, and it's performance improves because of it, 2020 will be his.
And he keeps saying he's going to build the wall. No one knows what that means, but if he actually GETS CONTROL OF illegal immigration (which both Bush and Obama IGNORED), then he's a lock for 2020.
But... Carson for Housing and Urban Development? And the Exxon CEO for SecState? Even I am puzzled by some of his choices. Oh well- nobody could be worse than Clinton/Kerry, so....
"Dump isn't even in yet and we're f****d already."
Hmm... I guess that means the OTHER HALF of the country was f***d the last 8 years, but I'm sure you're perfectly fine with that.
And the pendulum SWINGS BACK, "righting" itself. Don't worry- it'll start swinging back left in about 8 years, I figure...
"Exxon CEO for SecState?"
I'm guessing Trump wanted someone with international negotiating experience under their belt... Supposedly he was recommended by Condoleeza Rize (former Secretary of State) and Robert Gates (former Secretary of Defense) so there's something there other than "business friend of Donald".
"So far, Trump seems to have gotten some right..." Is that "roughly right" or pretty much wrong?
"Trump has picked FOUR women so far, one who is "other than caucasian". Really? Which one?
Trump top four cabinet posts are white males. Last time this occurred was 1989. Tillerson is an interesting pick, think the Russian connection will go away, and time will tell. Likewise for Mattis. Sessions is a terrible call and Mnuchin is at best, same old, same old where Treasury is run by Goldman Sachs. For cultural diversity we have an Asian-American, one African-American and two Indian-Americans. While one would be "blinded by the white" in this cabinet, and while Trump has not found a good Latino yet, I would be more concerned about the talent, a lack of experience in some major roles, and some downright crazy selections.
Pudzer has so many anti-labor views that his choice for Labor Secy boggles the mind. Perry for Energy is just funny. Devos for Education will bring God into our schools, as long as you are Christian as she tries to match Sharia Law with Biblical Law. And the rest of her school design is just horrendous. Carson, HUD, OK, that's just funny. Is it because he's black because don't see anything in his resume showing aptitude for the job. McMahon for Small Business seems like a quid pro quo for Trump's past sins with a resume of total loss trying to be elected and the single accomplishment of marrying Vince and being on a school board for about one year....
I am sorry but I am in the "you can't make this stuff up" area already..... I don't think the pendulum is swinging back, it just veered completely off course.
SPIN ALERT "If Obamacare gets either replaced or tweaked." Ah...... soon "tweaking" will be synonymous with replace as jr. continues to spin Trump's actual plan :>) Fact is that "tweaking" was not the Don's intention that you voted for.
Eight years? I would say it's all in the economy but I think Trump will set a new standard for that. Just not sure we, as a country, will accept the crap he is about to unleash on us even with an improving economy.
Mark:
Thanks for that, I was unaware. Certainly makes a little more sense now.
Yankee:
to borrow a tactic from the left: "Perry isn't the president elect. What does he have to do with anything? Let's stick to the ACTUAL people who are/have been elected."
"And he keeps saying he's going to build the wall. No one knows what that means"
Really? You really have an issue with the definition of WALL. I think Trump pretty much told you what that means, over and over and over.
Or is this like ObamaCare where replace means tweak so now wall means stopping illegals from crossing the Rio Grande?
NEW RULE: Words now mean what I define them as at that moment and are subject to change at any time.
"NEW RULE: Words now mean what I define them as at that moment and are subject to change at any time."
Well... do you (specifically you) want to go back to words meaning exactly what they meant when they were written? Because I think that re-opens a whole bunch of conversations we have had on another topic... Scalia-esque originalist now?
I seem to recall you advocating for words taking on different meanings through the lens of whatever social norms/popular opinion is in effect at a given time.
You're grasping-at-straws pathetic. If "wall" AT LEAST means "no more illegal immigrants flowing into the country unchecked", that definition will be A-OK with me and at least half of all Americans. I don't care how they do it- wall, electric fence, drone strikes, minefields.... (I kiid, I kiid...)
A border has to be SECURE, or it's not a border.
Damn. Mark always "Trumps" me lol
Yeah SD- I'm ALL FOR words meaning EXACTLY WHAT THEY SAY, and not being "interpreted".... so let's apply that to 2A, shall we? Judge's opinions are irrelevant, we will take the Founder's at their word, in both the Bill of Rights AND in their personal writings which describe EXACTLY WHY 2A was included in the Bill of Rights.
Oh yeah, and: "if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor."
For JR, guess you missed this--
Perry, the former Republican governor of Texas, is expected to be nominated to lead a department whose name he once famously forgot while pledging to eliminate it. He has said that climate change is just a “theory that remains unproven” and that climate scientists have “manipulated data to keep the money rolling in.” A few years ago, Perry’s top environmental officials in Texas removed all mentions of climate change from a report on rising sea levels in Galveston Bay. There are already signs that the Trump team wants to undertake a climate purge at the Energy Department; transition officials sent a questionnaire to the department last week, asking for the names of employees who had worked on the issue.
Certainly was the lie of the year and it was the law itself that did it. Insurance companies knew it, pushback from fact checkers happened as soon as he said it, and he really screwed up. Looks like about 2.5M lost their plan as plans that did not fit ObamaCare were cancelled since they would lose grandfathered status if they modified so makes sense to start with new. Not all of these folks ended up losing their doctors in the new plans. Unknown number for folks losing doctors but it was a mess for millions even at the plan level.
So what. This does not excuse jr. or Trump going forward. It is not a reason to continue lying or saying it was OK since others do it.
And yes, I do agree word meanings change over time, Supreme Court has legal responsibility to assess legal meaning, and have no problem with starting at "originalist." Yet what we are talking about is the acceptance of changing meanings on a spin whim. That is not what I had said in the past.
Wall, as far as I know, still means wall. While I can accept jr.'s definition of a "virtual wall" as in a variety of fashions to "wall off" America from Mexicans, I am pretty sure Trump defined a physical, Trump-style, extra high structure.
I am also sure that many things Trump told you are lies, that he will change them going forward and either deny he said the original or re-define what he said as being something else and that you will accept them as what he meant all along.
- Repeal ObamaCare means tweak it.
- Build a wall means lessen illegal immigration
- Deport all illegals means deport the one's Trump does not like
- You will see my taxes after the audit means no you won't
- I will divest myself from my business means no I won't
- It's all Hillary's fault means it's all Hillary's fault
- Anyone who disagrees with me is a @#$%@#% until I need them, then they at freakin-a-skippy
- Deny all Muslims access to the US means only from bad places means extreme vetting means who the heck knows
- Fix the inner cities means thank you for your vote
- Fix the tax code means give more back to the rich
- Fix the economy means take a HUGE loan, spend it on roads, guns, and rich people and then pray it gets better
- Drain the swamp means Goldman Sachs runs the Treasury, Exxon runs State, Rothschild octogenarian runs Commerce, the KKK runs our legal system. We have a Burger King in charge of Labor, Education run on Bible law, Small Business chaired by WWE bimbo, Energy by oil-run Texas bimbo; basically the swamp is now a bunch of old rich white guys.
etc. etc.
Are we all ready to feel great again? While a few of his selections are interesting, there's a lot of ? on the roster while probably bodes ill for success.
Mark Levin doesn't like Tillerson, and he gives some pretty convincing arguments....
"Tillerson has close ties to members of the ruling class establishment. His nomination was praised by the likes of Condoleezza Rice, Robert Gates, and James Baker — luminaries of the Bush administration and, in the case of Rice and Gates, lobbyists for Exxon-Mobil. Additionally, his close relationship with Vladimir Putin is a major cause for concern.
Fundamentally, Tillerson is the wrong man for the wrong job at the wrong time. As Levin read from Conservative Review Senior Editor Daniel Horowitz’s piece today:
Trump should have appointed a secretary of State who regards the current State Department with as much disdain as Scott Pruitt regards the EPA. The problem we have at the State Department is not a management crisis. We have a moral and intellectual problem with the State Department that has persisted for decades. It stems from a deep-rooted culture of moral relativism and an “America-last” mindset. As such, we needed a man with a strong ideological rudder who understands the issues, is on the right side of them, and willing to bust up the entire State Department structure and the global foreign policy apparatus.
Tillerson is wrong on the issues. He’s pro-Putin at a time when Russian aggression threatens the peace and stability of eastern Europe. He agrees with the Left on global warming at a time when the nation’s top diplomat needs to stand up to big international climate agreements."
Yeah, that's why I think he's an interesting choice.
SPIN ALERT: Levin tells us in his quasi-news-commentary that he has a decades old moral and intellectual issue with States with their moral relativism and an “America-last” mindset --- deep rooted into the culture. Wow. Wonder whatever he means by moral relativism; a broad topic where at some level, everyone almost applies. But the real question of fact is: if we had a America-last mindset for decades ----- are we last yet? If not, State must be really bad to mess up the one main thing deep rooted in their very culture.
Based on this Levin concludes "As such, we needed a man with a strong ideological rudder who understands the issues, is on the right side of them" No shoot Sherlock! I always like my guy to be on the right side of the issues. Wouldn't have it any other way. Unless of course his ideological rudder displays a real bent for moral relativism :>)
Levin's factoids on Tillerson dovetail with why I think he's an interesting choice. Sure he was Exxon first, America second with his off-shore dealings but I am sure he is capable of putting America first. Not a giant shift. I give him a jury's still out, hope it works rating...
I'm surprised you're OK with Tillerson, SD. Big-time capitalist, corporation guy, no govt experience, "rich white guy"..... the fact that you kinda' like him has me even more concerned LOL
But seriously, I'm thinking Tillerson isn't a great choice. I'm sort of with Levin on his point of "Trump should have appointed a secretary of State who regards the current State Department with as much disdain as Scott Pruitt regards the EPA", because Obama's state dept has, frankly, SUCKED- so moving as far away from that as possible would be a GOOD thing, imo.
But, like all his picks, I'm willing to give him a chance. Short leash tho- on ALL of them. Except Mattis; he gets a very long leash, after 8 years of the defense dept being on a very short leash.
I have no problem with Mattis. However, legally, he is not qualified for the "civilian" position of SECDEF because he's only been retired from the military for 3 years instead of the requisite 7 years.
10 USC 113 states that: "(a) There is a Secretary of Defense, who is the head of the Department of Defense, appointed from civilian life by the President, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate. A person may not be appointed as Secretary of Defense within seven years after relief from active duty as a commissioned officer of a regular component of an armed force."
So, while I have great respect for the man, I have greater respect for the tradition of keeping control over the military in civilian hands.
No problem with Mattis.Congress would have to pass a simple waiver on the duration of retirement for Mattis just like what was done for Gen George C Marshall.
Democrat President Harry Truman appointed Gen. George Marshall to the position in 1950,
Again, with all due respect to General Mattis, who is by all accounts a gentleman, a scholar and a leader of men... he's no George Marshall. And after granting the exception to General Marshall (who by nature of the Army's treatment of all 5-star generals would have been considered to be on active duty for life and thus never eligible to hold the position), Congress issued this statement:
"It is hereby expressed as the intent of the Congress that the authority granted by this Act is not to be construed as approval by the Congress of continuing appointments of military men to the office of Secretary of Defense in the future. It is hereby expressed as the sense of the Congress that after General Marshall leaves the office of secretary of defense, no additional appointments of military men to that office shall be approved."
It's pretty clear that it was meant to be a one-time deal for an exceptional candidate, who never would have been eligible otherwise.
Perhaps, perhaps not. Doesn't matter to me; I have no problems with the man, like I said.
But when you look at Trump's appointments, he's got a bunch of bad ones, a couple of terrible ones, more than a few egregiously bad ones and one illegal one that could potentially be filibustered in the Senate. There aren't any that he's actually gotten right.
I don't mind most of his appointments to date but not very happy with the Perry and Tillerson pics.
However,those pics may turn out ok.
Part of an editorial from NJ.com-
The Secretary of Energy under George W. Bush, Samuel Bodman, had a doctorate in chemical engineering from MIT. The first man who held that cabinet post under President Obama, Stephen Chu, won the Nobel Prize in Physics. The current leader of the Department of Energy, Ernest Moniz, ran the physics department at MIT.
That doesn't mean they are perfect public servants who knew how manage a huge bureaucracy, but they came equipped with a baseline knowledge of our nuclear stockpile, naval reactors, energy conservation, radioactive waste disposal, and genomics - which are the principal job requirements.
The next Energy Secretary is an oil man and climate change denier who attended Texas A&M - where he flunked Organic Chemistry II, got D's in Organic Chem lab and Organic Chem I, and C's in physics and chemistry - before growing up to believe that the Department of Energy should be abolished.
Science isn't really Rick Perry's thing. There's no shame in that. Certainly, Donald Trump doesn't think so.
But as Rep. Frank Pallone (NJ-6th) put it, "It is deeply unsettling that our current Secretary of Energy, a renowned nuclear physicist, could be succeeded by a contestant on Dancing with the Stars."
Harsh, but true: You generally want a scientist to run a federal agency founded on scientific principles, not someone who has such contempt for science that he calls evolution "just a theory that's going around."
Trump nominates Navy SEAL and dean of the Naval Special Warfare graduate school as Interior Secretary
http://www.guns.com/2016/12/15/trump-nominates-pro-gun-navy-seal-as-interior-secretary/
the way things are shaping up I may be picking up a supressor sooner than I thought.
The birth certificate is back - Joe Arpaio says he can prove the document is forged.
http://www.abc15.com/news/region-phoenix-metro/central-phoenix/sheriff-joe-arpaio-to-talk-obama-birth-certificate-investigation
"You generally want a scientist to run a federal agency founded on scientific principles, not someone who has such contempt for science"
Unless the goal is smaller government (a platform on which Trump ran, and won)... and then you want a "closer".
Wonder if any politician ever read the Aesop's tale of The Boy Who Cried Wolf?
Pushing the "fake news" meme didn't seem to work, now pushing the Russian element to an extreme. How about real proof instead of "conspiracy" based speculation?
What I do know is that those in power are pushing us toward something that will not end well. Dumbasses, every one of them.
Mark, closer? Laughable. The only thing that will close is visibility into energy deals. Perry's largest super PAC donor is the CEO of Energy Transfer Partners. Oh, and Perry is on the board.
"Perry's largest super PAC donor is the CEO of Energy Transfer Partners"
...and 80% of the donation was refunded when Perry's presidential bid came to an end. Seems to be a pretty honorable and responsible use of PAC money, no?
Being on the board of an energy organization would be a resume builder for anyone else though, right?
Are we forgetting that under Perry's governorship of Texas, that state became the nations #1 generator of wind power (growing >9100% during his term). I hear Texas also has a little bit of gas/oil in the ground too... Perhaps Perry knows a little something about energy and/or managing bureaucracies dealing with energy.
Speaking of laughable... now he appoints his bankruptcy attorney for the Israel Ambassadorship - the same attorney that received lots of $$$ from the Kushner family and advocates building up the West Bank with the Kushner/Trump families apparently pushing for the building contracts.
Trump is on course (LOL) with the Ambassador to Israel. Let Israel do whatever they want, end the two state solution, do what many other "regimes" have done in the past including us (USA).
Just one hitch though, stop taking our money and steering this country towards wars on Israel's behalf. Israel can do what it wants but stop manipulating Big-Brother USA.
Will Trump make good on MAGA which is NOT about sending billions of dollars and costing American soldiers' lives???
Is America not great anymore?
How ungrateful are we?
Do we suck......pond water......from the muddy bottom of the great country pond?
If we're not great anymore, who is great now?
Maybe we're just Queen of the Pigs.......
Is all that we need to be great again less Mexicans, Muslims, media, taxes, regulations, laws, experienced legislators, people in government, journalists, and more good $12 factory jobs, national debt, tweets, richer rich people for trickle down, guns, people carrying guns, and Russian disinformation news?
Will we be grateful when we are great again :>)
"Do we suck......pond water......from the muddy bottom of the great country pond?"
Well, yes actually. But it's not pond water, it's "fake" prosperity made possible by exponentially increasing debt, prosperity only possible by borrowing it from future generations. Mind you, it's not just us but the rest of the world as well so I guess that makes it OK :-(
But that's in the past, the future is what we need to be concerned about. Will the new administration play nice with the delicate (im)balance of managing total existing debt with a functioning society? Of course we won't know until we know, but the talk of dramatically increasing our borrowing because we are in a state of ZIRP, assuming that the new borrowing will increase the monetary velocity to a self-sustaining level, will lower our debt burden? IMO there is NO chance that will happen, and the reason is because of the nature of our debt-based system. The deck chairs would be rearranged yet again, no real solutions to be seen.
Scarier yet (for me - a saver - anyway), it seems ever more likely that we will be moving to a fully digital currency where restraints would be further removed, and the ability to shift debt burdens to anyone (never mind the benefit of 100% taxation) not willing to play the same risk game as everyone else made trivial. Will Trump's administration reside over this change? I think yes. Zero interest rates around the world (something extremely difficult to manage in the US due to our having the "worlds currency") are a canary in the coal mine I think. Bitcoin being "allowed" to exist is another canary, given that typically competing currencies are immediately and harshly suppressed, most likely because it being a R&D platform for what to do (and not to do) as an electronic currency.
That IMO will be Trump's real legacy. Well, that and how he will probably reside over the next recession/depression, especially if he does the things he says he wants to do without considering the consequences.
"less (illegal) Mexicans, (extremist) Muslims, (dishonest) media, taxes, (excessive) regulations, (unconstitutional) laws, experienced (in corruption) legislators, (career) people in government, (editorializing) journalists, and more good $12 factory jobs (for teenagers), national debt (not going to other countries), tweets (who cares), richer rich people for trickle down, guns (for those never accused/convicted of crime), people carrying guns (for personal defense), and Russian disinformation (only releasing what the DNC says behind closed doors) news? "
Fixed most of these for you... that's what would make America great again.
SD, when the majority of Americans have little savings and will have to rely on Social Security to survive (which it is not designed for) but the media and government are more concerned with other issues far more trivial (TO Americans) WTF?
All righty then.... JIT thinks we are doing worse than sucking pond water.... He sees ZIRP (after it's over and the FED started raising rates.....:>) and worse possibly yet to come... Seems to kind of know, kind of not, that after monetary policy brings you to ZIRP, you have no monetary policy. You are left with fiscal policy leading you to quantitative easing and stimulus and the like as the favorite economic policy kick start.... For Trump that means Defense build up, infrastructure build up, and more spending. That leads to more debt praying that these actions fire up the economy to levels that bring down the debt which JIT says "no chance." I agree. Then he goes off the deep end ruing the end of the world due to digital currency and Bitcoin.... I do agree that Trump's plans will bankrupt us unless our economy continues to pick up to the point of covering his bad acts. As to the rest.....different President, same paranoia, gotta love consistency :>)
Mark, a true Trumpet, says "Fixed most of these for you..." He's great again!!! A true believer...
iJay --- not sure what you want the media and government to do. There are frequent news articles about savings rates and the effects on our economy and individuals. Should I go conservative and talk about personal responsibility and getting a better job? Savings rates, while still low, have been rising. Actually rising to the point where some economists are seeing it as the reason for the recent economic lag ---- people are saving more and therefore spending less. Before the 80's, we saved at a 10% level, during the 90's fell to 5% and headed to 2% just before the recession (2008). In the recession, jumped to between 6% and 8%, fell a bit and today we have leveled off at about 6% ---- still too low but better.
However, think about this: when Trump slashes our taxes at TWO TIMES the slash rate of Reagan. Will taxpayers, especially the rich who reap most of the benefits, create jobs or increase savings? Given current trends, we will save more meaning less fuel for the economic engine Trump's tax cuts are intended to fire. Meanwhile, Trump will increase Defense spending to Iraq/Afghan war levels, will drop a fortune in infrastructure, and gosh---- has to be spending money on the inner cities unless he does not want to be re-elected in 2020. Bringing jobs home will increase costs and prices which just looks like inflation to the consumer. I got all this from the media Ijay, wasn't too hard.....
I do agree that this is a major American problem but as we are twitter-fed Trump spin swill to slurp up, how will he help?
- lower taxes --- yeah, right. here's a chart on who really makes the money with Trump's plan http://www.cnbc.com/2016/12/08/chart-shows-exactly-how-trumps-tax-plan-could-affect-you.html
- pensions going away --- nah, nothing but love for the 401K there....
- health care pension benefits ---- nah, nothing happening there so good bye health benefit
- minimum wage increase ---- not bloody likely
- bringing good paying factory jobs home ---- haven't seen a good one yet.....those days are gone, gone, gone
- lower health care costs ---- no real plan here and repeal ObamaCare is getting muted to prepare for the spin of repeal/replacement looking very, very, ObamaCare-like
Don't see any changes here iJay, it's up to each American to figure it out but for any HLers expecting to retire with only SS coming in ------ not going to be good if you try this.
Meant to write negative interest rate policy in the second half of my post, would've thought it was obvious given the context of my post. Sorry for the write-o.
And "deep end"? Play nice now. Everyone else has been, no need to turn that corner yet again. I'll once again remind you to pop up out of the weeds for a minute and look at the bigger trends as that's where my view comes from, as you already know. The trends do suck pond water, do they not? Well, at least from the perspective of the average citizen they do, but not perhaps you if can play and participate in the game and enjoy taking from the future "us" to enjoy yourself now. Perspectives, remember?
BTW, anyone know how to make a raised eyebrow emoticon, ala Spock lol
"Mark, a true Trumpet, says "Fixed most of these for you..." He's great again!!! A true believer..."
I'm an anti-Hillary, not a pro-Trump (not that this negates happening to agree with him on some issues).
I did notice you avoided commenting on the substance of my additions though at the opportunity to simply toss out some snarky names (as usual). Not that this is surprising, as you (I'm assuming) purposely left out the preceding adjectives that I added back into that list of items to align them with Trump's platform.
"frightening"
Well, it's an opinion piece at the NY Times... no surprise it's anti-Republican.
Just remember, the gentlemen that wrote it (an economist, so he should have a pretty good grasp of financial markets) claimed on election night that stocks would crash and "never" recover if Trump were to be elected.
The DOW has hit record highs since. Not the best batting average there. Take his political opinions with a big grain of salt - they may be just as accurate as his market prediction...
Seems like Krugman has a bit of a checkered past:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/ralphbenko/2014/07/14/is-paul-krugman-leaving-princeton-in-quiet-disgrace/#67cf2dcd2da7
"Krugman consistently misrepresents his opponents' positions, constructs fictive straw men, addresses marginal figures, and ignores inconvenient truths..."
OMG we found strangerdanger!
"The Dow has been moving upwards for years. Nothing to do with Humpty-Trump."
Whether it does or doesn't, its recent performance refutes the (apparently frequent) hyperbole employed by the author of the opinion piece that frightened 4catmom.
Ah, smear the writer.... But his past isn't the point is it? The point is whether the points he makes are valid or not based on history and the present. Nothing he said seemed "out there" to me. Rather than try to discredit him for his past, what do you think other than it figures he's anti replublican.
Krugman is a debt-based idiot. Sorry if that sounds mean, but I can't find any other word to describe the level of dedication he has to a system that is designed to steal from the lower classes and reward those in charge. There's no other way to explain his ranting and raving over the years except in the context of him always, often desperately, pushing the easy-money (Keynesian) agenda, believing that restraint in any form is the enemy that is killing our economy. He is actually correct on that point, but he ignores that the piper will need to be paid at some point, that we can't continue for perpetuity the act of "borrowing" from the future to pay for things today.
Even when he gets what he wants (and he's definitely gotten a lot as Keynesian's have presided over monetary policy for many decades) and the results still don't work out the way he envisions, he's too singularly focused on his religious attachment to Keynesian economic policy to see that the last forty plus years have been a nearly solid trend - a continuing widening divide between the rich and the poor and a path riddled with monetary manipulation meant only to keep the system going. Ask yourself why is all the constant monetary fiddling necessary if the system is so great? Think about that for a moment. The answer lies with "follow the money".
The stock market can only trend up when policy is to continually "grow" the economy via debt. It can't be any other way. And that's fine and all, but the main issue is the dog-chasing-its-tail methodology that he and other supposed "intellectuals" think is great because it offers rewards to those who play the game while ignoring who is penalized, harmed. The Occupy movement didn't come into existence over nothing.
"Ah, smear the writer."
Well, when one writes an "opinion" piece, with no quantitative data, almost all you can do is point to previous critique of his opinion to establish whether it appears valid or not. Krugman doesn't seem to fare well in that regard.
Plenty of other people raked him over the coals in the comments section of the NY Times page too... pointing out where he lied or tearing down his straw man arguments.
Alright, Trump officially has the electoral votes. Now he just has to be sworn in, and we're done here. (right)
At least then you snowflakes can start complaining about things he's ACTUALLY DOING AS PRESIDENT, instead of about things he has not yet done LOL
Oh you mean like making stupid ass comments about China? He doesn't have to actually be president yet to cause damage. LOL
The truth is not decided by the number of people subscribing to it. Whether or not certain ideas are “out of the mainstream” is besides the point. A correct conclusion is also not necessarily reached by embracing some middle ground between two opposing viewpoints (i.e., the logical fallacy of “False Compromise”).
"Ron Paul has some serious ideas which deserve serious consideration. Wrong for media to ignore him."
I would love to see Dr. Paul appointed Fed Chairman.
Yes, to all that- but again, how about commenting on this particular opinion piece. I would love to hear what all you critical thinkers have to say about this piece. And I mean that. Thanks. I remember in school learning about the Roman Empire and what scares me is the notion that all republics eventually fail. And the fall of Rome was the example. I don't know if that's me making it up or if that was really the example. We've made it over 200 years and I sincerely wonder when (not if) our downfall will be.
For anyone interested in an in-depth look at the rise and fall of the Roman Republic, you should check out the series Death Throes of the Republic from Dan Carlin's podcast, Hardcore History. He is, in my opinion, one of the greatest storytellers of the digital age.
http://www.dancarlin.com/
Krugman is right about the basic premise, but what he fails to mention is that the period of instability in Rome began in the late 120s BCE with the rise of ambitious popular figures who sought to reverse the decades of accumulation by which the Roman aristocracy had acquired a larger and larger share of the land wealth of Roman Italy - an important indicator of economic inequality in an agrarian society. As these popular figures (the Gracchi brothers for those interested) were murdered by senatorial mobs or run out of the city, large landowners began to consolidate wealth, and the citizen-farmers were displaced to the cities where they were left un-or-underemployed and at the mercy of powerful local figures for protection and wages, or state grain-doles. This situation was exacerbated by periods of war in which draftees who left their farms saw their homes destroyed and promised land-settlements gobbled up by the increasingly huge, slave-operated plantations that further eroded the Roman citizen-farmer base.
Correlations I see:
Desperate plebeians willing to follow the increasingly imperious and increasingly wealthy generals and politicians who challenged each other for power, and were willing to commit violence in the streets on their behalf.
Romans greeted the Augustan establishment of the principate/empire with enthusiasm and acceptance after decades of instability, inequality, and political violence.
Krugman is wrong in placing the problem at the feet of partisanship per se. He is vehemently opposed to the thought that the market dynamics that have brought us to this point are actually the result of neoliberal policy.
"We've made it over 200 years and I sincerely wonder when (not if) our downfall will be."
When people think "a pen and a phone" is the way around Congress.
When "majority rules" determines social policy, ignoring the Constitutional limits placed on government.
When the answer to every problem is more government, not less.
When illegal immigrants and other nations receive more protection and benefits than true citizens of this country.
See, for many of us, the last 8 years have been the downfall.
From above: "When illegal immigrants and other nations receive more protection and benefits than true citizens of this country.
See, for many of us, the last 8 years have been the downfall."
A big part of the problem over the last eight years is believing things to be true, that are not true.
"Ron Paul has some serious ideas which deserve serious consideration. Wrong for media to ignore him."
I would love to see Dr. Paul appointed Fed Chairman.
+1000
As much as you think the anti Trump folks are a bit melodramatic, in my opinion to consider the last 8 years the downfall is way, way, over the top melodramatic. I mean really, do you not have your guns, your house, your car, food to eat, your freedom to move, to dissent, to have this forum for discourse? Did Obama ever seek to silence you or threaten retribution to naysayers or anti Obama folks? I mean that right there is extremely frightening and more dangerous to our republic than anything Obama could have ever done. Where is your outrage over Dumps actions and threats of revenge and retribution? That alone makes him a disgusting, vile anti democratic piece of you know what. THAT is a great beginning to our downfall.
"In 104 years, 2 or more electors have never abandoned a candidate. SEVEN abandoned HRC yesterday. " so much for that campaign
RAS,
So... you don't think the anti-Trumpers are being "melodramatic"?
-Russia hacked into the election and made sure Trump won
-he will do away with Planned Parenthood and overturn Roe v Wade
-he's going to put all the muslims into "camps"
-he's going to do away with medicare/medicaid
...I could go on, but what's the point? None of that was, is, or is going to be true. You'll still have your abortions, and your muslims walking around shooting up birthday parties and driving trucks into crowds, you're medicare/medicaid....
Believe me, I know what it's like to think the end of America is near... I felt like that the last 2 elections. But it hasn't ended yet, it won't end with Trump, and if we're all lucky, the economy and homeland security will actually IMPROVE, for a change.
MMc, sorry bout that, I misread your passage as "it is" rather than "it should be." Thus, the rightful moniker Trumpet for a true believer was misused, my bad.
Although, on the "substance," if you think Trump's sweep will only catch the illegal, extremist, and dishonest, you are smoking something. Heck, he's not even going after the illegal --- he only wants felons now. And did you even see the tax plan? Use link above to see a pictorial depiction of who gets rich and who gets the shaft. Hint: it's YOU. Do you really feel the rich are taxed more "excessively" than the rest of us? So why do they deserve the bigger break? Do you really feel he will only target unconstitutional laws? Like clean air, water and earth? Those unconstitutional laws against pollution. How about your blanket statement that experienced legislators = corrupt ones? That career people are somehow bad for being experienced? And that the $12 factory jobs are only for teenagers? That other countries are responsible for our national debt? That guns are only transferred to law abiding citizens? And that a foreign government releasing private emails is OK since it wasn't the RNC?
Perhaps not a Trumpet but certainly an orange-tinted sunglasses view.
For example, here's a look why bringing factories home might, just might, increase your price at the counter... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/08/average-cost-factory-worker_n_1327413.html To combat that, factories returning to the US will mostly land in the SE where NC and SC for example have the largest factory labor increases in the US due to lack of Unions, benefits, and low wages. No, $12 ain't just for teenagers anymore, they will be the prevailing wages for most Trump great American jobs. It's all smoke by a reputable liar who spins everything as either his victory or someone else's fault. Oh hell, he doesn't spin, he boldly lies where no man has dared lie before.
Like Trump's landslide claim when he won by a smaller margin that the last 45 elections. Not even roughly right.
SPIN ALERT: To say strangerdanger "consistently misrepresents his opponents' positions, constructs fictive straw men, addresses marginal figures, and ignores inconvenient truths..." is a nice generalization but untrue. Of course, you have no facts to back it up so it's just more of your branding-type spin.
And "deep end"? Play nice now. Everyone else has been," Yeah, so don't get upset when someone says: "pop up out of the weeds for a minute and look at the bigger trends as that's where my view comes from" because that's not snarky or arrogant like saying "Krugman is a debt-based idiot" because he can't think of other words for it..... Ah, so that's the metric!
It's not that I disagreed with what you said. Its more like it was difficult to understand your "bigger trends" due to confusion, obfuscation, and spin. Lots of spin.
"See, for many of us, the last 8 years have been the downfall." Wow.... I can only hope you turned 18 in 2008 and missed the previous 8 years from your conclusion. But NTW, you're going back to the future ---- in spades.
JR, you exaggerate the opinions of most, though not all, people who abhor Trump.
A great part of the problem is that, as you yourself have said on more than one occasion, no one knows what Trump will do. A huge problem, no?
We cannot just assume that things won't end with Trump. I think it's unlikely, but certainly possible. And in a way Trump is a symptom of a larger problem, which is the excessive polarization now existing in our country. A lot of opinions are now based on beliefs that are not reflective of reality.
"I mean really, do you not have your guns, your house, your car, food to eat, your freedom to move, to dissent, to have this forum for discourse?"
Yes, because we've fought back against the attempts to the contrary.
Just like you're free to fight back against any Trump policies you don't agree with. The difference is, more people (electorally, except in California) agreed with Trump this time.
"JR, you exaggerate the opinions of most, though not all, people who abhor Trump. "
And the other side isn't doing that exact thing WITH TRUMP?? ROFLMAO
Exaggeration and fear mongering was the left's ENTIRE CAMPAIGN
But JR, I'm not basing my opinions on the fear mongering left- it's what my own two eyes and ears have seen and heard from Dump that scares me. It is plain for all to see what Dump is all about. Oh but only if you take your blinders off. ROLFMAO!
"he's not even going after the illegal --- he only wants felons now"
To start... and perhaps I'm mistaken, but being a felon implies something illegal occurred, correct?
"Do you really feel he will only target unconstitutional laws? Like clean air, water and earth?"
Whether he "only" does it, or does it at all is still a good thing to me. As others have pointed out, the excessive regulation on the environmental side promoting as-yet undeveloped technologies at the expense of what we need today, while perhaps not unconstitutional, can be optimized.
"That career people are somehow bad for being experienced?"
Depends on the nature of that "experience".
" factories returning to the US will mostly land in the SE where NC and SC"
Good for me... every factory that opens near me means more manufacturing engineering jobs to go with it. Engineers become higher in demand... pay goes up.
"And that the $12 factory jobs are only for teenagers?"
Low paying, entry level jobs *should* be entry level. Just raising wages isn't the solution (without an accompanying raise in job responsibility).
"That guns are only transferred to law abiding citizens?
Of course not, but most of the laws proposed had nothing to do with (or would be less than useless at) curbing illegal transfers.
"And that a foreign government releasing private emails is OK since it wasn't the RNC?
Hey, if they've got nothing to hide... right? I think they were more pissed that people saw the *content* of those emails than the fact that they were hacked to begin with.
"Exaggeration and fear mongering was the left's ENTIRE CAMPAIGN".
I was going to say: another exaggeration. But why always talk about "sides". If a side you don't like is doing something wrong, does that make it okay to do it ourselves? Let's forget about "sides" and just address what someone in this forum is specifically saying. It's the only way to try to come together a little bit, which I hope is a goal we all share, ultimately.
RAS, I wouldn't use the term "Dump"; it will just anger people without there being any benefit. I do agree that some of us with our own eyes and ears see someone who appears to be entirely unsuitable for the presidency, in knowledge and temperament, never mind policy.
"But JR, I'm not basing my opinions on the fear mongering left- it's what my own two eyes and ears have seen and heard from Dump that scares me. It is plain for all to see what Dump is all about. Oh but only if you take your blinders off."
And now you know how the rest of us felt for the last 2 elections. Talk about blinders....
Sure felon is a subset of illegal, but last I heard, undocumented was illegal too. Got a point there? Ah, the answer to all questions: it depends.... Might be good for you, but is it good for America to pay higher prices only to support $12/hour average jobs, not starter jobs, where we will have to also pony up for food stamps probably. But really: "Hey, if they've got nothing to hide... right?" That's really your principled guideline for invading privacy? Whether the victim has something to hide? Sounds like time for NEW RULE to cover that one.
At this point there are many actions to grade Trump on. Conflicts of interest, cabinet appointments, third grade twitter behaviors, whatever --- since the election he has many an action I think setting the stage for what will happen next.
You sold out and soon you will "owe my soul to the company store...." Trump's cabinet net worth just passed $13B; that's greater that 50M Americans --- combined. It's the least diverse cabinet in decades; mostly old white rich men many with platforms that would never allow them to make the national stage. There is no attempt to mirror the diversity of America --- it mirrors Trump.
No, I think there's plenty to talk about before January since that leaves over a week of Trump mouthing off. In tweet time, that's 10 duck years.
"Sure felon is a subset of illegal, but last I heard, undocumented was illegal too. Got a point there?"
Yes - That getting rid of illegal and/or felonious immigrants is a good start. You're making a huge leap by claiming that's "all" he will do, when it's just where he wants to "start".
"Ah, the answer to all questions: it depends."
If you do something wrong for many years, you have a lot of "experience". That doesn't mean it's good experience.
"Might be good for you, but is it good for America to pay higher prices only to support $12/hour average jobs, not starter jobs"
If the quality of products is commensurate with the cost, sure. I'd rather buy one item for $10 than get it for $8 only to replace it quickly thereafter.
"That's really your principled guideline for invading privacy? Whether the victim has something to hide?"
You do realize that was a sarcastic rebound of something WE have heard plenty of times in our discussions on illegal search/seizure, etc. Whether you personally have used that phrase, I can't recall, but I definitely remember it being someone defending the government's actions (probably buried somewhere in our 2A threads). Turnabout is fair play.
"Turnabout is fair play."
Well, if that ain't this election in a nutshell, I don't know what is LOL
Read this article - and keep telling me there's no cause for concern: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-flynn-freedom-party-nazis_us_5859367ee4b08debb78af7c2
Hmm, I guess I need to brush up on the definition of snarky. If an analogy concerning perspective viewpoints is snarky then I guess I'm guilty! Sorry you mistook my words as an attack though (not everyone does that ya know), it really wasn't intended to be negative. If I had used the word grass instead of "weeds" would that have made you feel better? ;-)
Regarding Krugman, I did apologize as I used the phrase even though an apology isn't needed. The trends of our debt-based, perpetually growing economic system are becoming more glaringly obvious as the years go by - do you disagree?
And all Krugman can talk about is more, more, more debt to keep a monetary system alive that absolutely needs more and more debt to survive. And him reminding us poor peons that we aren't doing our part by spending beyond our means more than we already are isn't helping at all. So, he says, the poor government (us, really) simply must take up the slack to keep the party going. But since *we* are the government, we're paying regardless. Duh.
I don't think I've ever once read or heard that man discuss the need to fix the existing system, or better yet replace it. No, all he knows how to do is regurgitate Keynesian talking points. Oh, and now's a good time to remind everyone who the winners really are in a Keynesian system - the wealth gap and Occupy Movement anyone???
Once again we're just disagreeing over a perspective difference. Viewed from the weeds, err, the short-term time frame, I think anyone can get what Krugman is saying. Viewed from the longer term, well, when you get to that point I'll be more than happy to regurgitate my own talking points yet again lol ;-)
Hit piece 4catmom. I think the libs have been calling that "fake news" as of late lol.
Unless, that is, the author thinks that someone who despises antisemitism is a Nazi...
Austria’s far right party signs a cooperation pact with Putin’s party and meets with Trump's team in New York. https://twitter.com/Evan_McMullin/status/811238929429098497
I have said this before but I honestly believe we all agree more than we think - you can't tell a persons tone or inflection on here - it's liberals arguing with people so liberal they wrap around and become conservative - most of us who are labeled as right wingers here are constitutionalist libertarians.
I've been chastised several times for continuing to post after leaving the area - this right here is the reason why I do - worthy intellects- people who earnestly believe in there position, are well versed and like to engage in intellectual debate - I miss that here in NC.
Trump's Nazi Followers Are Already Openly Targeting Jews In Montana
Trump is not even president yet and his most fervent followers are already living out their revenge fantasies.
Justin Rosario
Dec 19, 2016
Yes there are articles about this piece of loveliness - want to defend this?
Skippy, you gave up on intellectual discourse and intelligent debate to save a few bucks on property taxes or what? ;)
4catmom,
Don't have to. Trump hasn't called, either directly or indirectly, for the persecution of jews, and you apparently holding the opinion he did is ludicrous and laughable. Those on the right abhor racism just like you do, whether you choose to believe it or not. No sane Trump supporter is going to agree with or defend those nutjobs.
But by all means, keep believing ALL Trump supporters are Nazis... it shows your true colors.
Yay... now I have to have a twitter account, to hear what lie he's going to tell next. The only thing worse than a crooked politician, is a crooked businessman, who is also a politician. I still want to know when the "routine audit" is done. His daughter will be the first lady, living in the Whitehouse, with dad, yet trump will have NO idea how his companies are doing? Yeah... right. Why do you think she's meeting world leaders, with daddy?
Then there's "drain the swamp". He out right admitted that he lied. He said "it sounded hokey, but the crowd loved it, so I tried it. Doesn't matter, anyway. I won the election." And the crowd cheers, after being told that. No more "lock her up", he likes the Clintons and Obama now. Doesn't matter..." that's in the past..as long as I won".
I still can't even say the prez word in front of his name. He's already stirring up too many conflicts. Is this going to be dubya on steroids? Oh God speed us all.
Come on JR... you know the only groups where the actions of a few represent ALL is gun owners and Republicans.
...but you're racist or xenophobic if you point out the race/religion of a criminal or terrorist (unless they are white, then it's Trump's fault).
Actually he said, at least at one time, he would start with felons and see where it goes. Also said amnesty or something that looks like it but does not sound like it, might be a possibility in the future. He has claimed many different approaches to the point of having no approach at all except what's in your mind as you have translated his grab bag of everything into your own paradigm. That's very Trumpian of you.
"If the quality of products is commensurate with the cost, sure. I'd rather buy one item for $10 than get it for $8 only to replace it quickly thereafter. " Well no duh to that conjecture, but of course you have no way to predict. But I am betting you still go for the $8 quite often. At least that's what you did last time making off-shore production what it is today. You know it wasn't as if one day they made it here, the next they didn't. You had your chance to buy American before and you blew it.
Nope, missed the sarcastic humorous ode to the 2A thread all together and took you at your word.
And for the best....."If you do something wrong for many years, you have a lot of "experience". That doesn't mean it's good experience." Wow. Well, it doesn't mean it's bad experience either. Matter of fact, it might be a mixture of bad and good, or maybe more bad, or maybe more good. Point was, and is, that experience is not tantamount to bad.......except for manufacturing engineers. The experienced ones are all bad, need to be weeded out, fired, and replaced with folks who have no experience or training at all but are just rich, white, old, businessmen, soldiers, and bankers.
"Actually he said, at least at one time, he would start with felons and see where it goes."
And as I said, that's a good start.
"But I am betting you still go for the $8 quite often. At least that's what you did last time making off-shore production what it is today. "
Considering that manufacturing has been declining since the year I was born (1978), you have a lot more time under your belt purchasing the foreign goods. When it comes to high dollar items that I buy new (anything from tools to cars) I prefer made in USA. My Sierra is from Indiana, my F150 is from Michigan. Sorry though, my KTM dirt bike was made in Austria Out of all my guns, I think only two were made anywhere but in the USA (Arizona, New Hampshire, Connecticut, New York). Funny that one of those is Austrian too...
"Matter of fact, it might be a mixture of bad and good, or maybe more bad, or maybe more good. Point was, and is, that experience is not tantamount to bad."
And equivalently, it's not tantamount to good.
"Donald Trump added another billionaire to his presidential transition team on Wednesday: Carl Icahn, the 80-year-old activist shareholder and long-time friend who once helped Trump keep control of his troubled New Jersey casinos. Icahn will be a special adviser to the president-elect overseeing regulation, according to the transition team." Makes sense since his Atlantic City casinos were so lucrative for him personally - others not so much.
sparks...no account needed to read Trump tweets:
www.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump
You still seem to not get it why someone might think you were being negative. I really hope you don’t think use of an analogy has anything to do with that.
I guess you’re just in the weeds, head in the sand, fuzzy thinking your way through this. Given your penchant for principled-driven pontifications of past puerile posts, one might think you more sensitive to others. I emote but it's only alliteration so it's OK.
Snarky or analogy: you be the judge. OH wait :>) It’s OK again now.
All kidding aside, one more time…the issue…in a nutshell, the point, whatever. Just take from it what you want but please end the conversation here, please.
The point is that someone might be offended by your slight defamation of being in the weeds on an issue as your proclaimed reason they could not understand your point of view. Funnier yet as you were throwing the "play nice" card at the same time. Guess you missed my subtle nuance there. Attack? No, don’t think I said that. I was pretty clear. And no, I really have no feelings about this whatsoever. Keep it up as you may.
My apologies for upsetting you SD. That was not my intention. I'll go back to skipping past your posts, trying my hardest to not read them so that no replies from me will be directed toward you. Kindly do the same, thanks.
I sincerely hope you have a happy holiday SD and that life brings you happiness in all that you do. I do mean that btw.
SD complaining that one of his opposing posters isn't "playing nice".... what is the world coming to.....
Carl Icahn as special advisor on regulatory reform...wow, this really is shaping up to be a bunch of foxes guarding the hen house. I wonder how long the "regular" Americans who voted Trump will keep defending him as it becomes increasingly clear he has zero interest in them and only cares about increasing the wealth of the (already) super rich.
Again, I am not upset, nor do I think it was an attack. I am merely pointing out that some might take offense at your statements which is doubly funny combined with the admonition to "play nice" followed by some real conjecture and spin.
You just chose to chastise me to "play nice" while backhandedly telling me I had "my head in the weeds" at the same time. My head was in the weeds becasue you felt that I could not see your point. My point, beyond all that was, IMO, the passage my weed covered head couldn't see was: "It's not that I disagreed with what you said. Its more like it was difficult to understand your "bigger trends" due to confusion, obfuscation, and spin. Lots of spin." But again you chose to discuss the part that might be offensive to some, my overt sensitivity to it, and the pain it must be causing me rather than that factless paragraph full conjecture and confusion.
If you can't see it, or the humor in being blatantly two-faced, or that someone might take offense at that "weeds" statement, much less that statement combined with the recommendation to play nice, or support your nonsensical info that followed, OK then, your choice.
"After campaigning on a promise to clean up Washington and rid it of special interests, Donald Trump has stacked his team with the likes of former Goldman Sachs banker Steven Mnuchin and ExxonMobil CEO Rex Tillerson.
Now, just weeks before taking office, Trump has decided to sideline his pledge to “drain the swamp,” his ally Newt Gingrich said Wednesday.
“I’m told he now just disclaims that,” Gingrich (R-Ga.) the former House speaker, told NPR’s “Morning Edition.” “He now says it was cute, but he doesn’t want to use it anymore.” Shocking.....What else, that some of you were excited about, is going away...
So Mr. Trump, how is that swamp draining going?
"I'll tell you, it's going terrific, fantastic, you know, I said I'd drain the swamp but then I looked at it a little better and thought, Swamp is good, swamp is good, this is a good swamp, believe me, good swamp, it's full of good swampy people, they are good people, I tell you. It's going to be terrific how we transform this swamp into a beautiful, I tell you, beautiful resort.....just wait and see. It's going to be a beautiful swamp resort with gold and trump signs everywhere, beautiful, even Putin told me it's going to be beautiful, I believe him, beautiful, terrific!
I'm still waiting for Trump to pay back all the people he stiffed ---- including the owner of the Freehold NJ music store who sold him $100,000 worth of pianos.
Trump said he didn't have the money to pay him.
Trump is a piece of garbage.
I'm still waiting for people to be able to "keep their doctors" with Obamacare....
What a heartless as well as ridiculous comparison, JR. Not surprising coming from you.
Trump put countless people in financial ruin by stealing from them. He has the money to pay them but doesn't. He is nothing more than a thief and belongs in jail.
If you walked out of a store with merchandise and did not pay for it, the police would be called to arrest you.
Trump is a piece of garbage.
Oh, but happiest, that's just good business dontcha know? Did you also know that the guy asked him if he could at least give the pianos back and was told NO.
FYI ( The Swamp)
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/cruz-to-introduce-constitutional-amendment-for-term-limits/article/2609265?custom_click=rss
Yes, hapiest. I'm heartless. A heartless conservative, that's why I have rescue animals, reached out to the community to save orphaned birds in my yard, donate to local shelters, local charities, as well as national/global charities. It's why I started a thread "how to give back", and cooked food for a Thanksgiving feast for people who were without one. That's why in the past I've been a bell ringer for the salvation army, and buy toys for tots. Yes, heartless JR. That's why I help old people in my neighborhood who can't get up and down their driveway anymore by bringing their garbage cans down to the road, and carrying their mail up for them.
Yes, that's me- heartless.
How 'bout you?
a loud mouth rich boy with zero experience in government is going to "lead" our country. god help us. i think half of the country at least is already sick of hearing about his every move.
LOL !!
Hope you didn't forget anything, JR!!
Lots of us do the same, including me ---- but we don't feel the need to boast about it.
No boasting- just illustrating how ignorant you are, with your stereotyping of people who disagree with you, with your apparent opinion that if someone is a conservative, republican, Trump voter, or doesn't agree with you politically, that they are some kind of rich/white/"heartless" bastard. Oh- I forgot: racist/bigot/misogynist/did-I-forget-anything? But then- that's the liberal M.O. - they are so loving and kind that they want to destroy anyone who isn't as loving as they are. You democrats have a real identity problem, and with this election a real stereotyping problem. Just because someone doesn't agree with you, doesn't mean they can't be good people.
But I don't expect you to figure that out. Shame.
I know people who voted for Hillary, I don't think lesser of those people for doing so; I simply disagree with them. You guys losing this election really has exposed the WORST of you.
Now, since you are apparently such an "authority" here on the forum (calling out which people apparently have character flaws LOL), I think a little gloating IS in order....
“NO WAY can Trump win.”
“Trump running means you better get used to saying madame president”
“God help America if he is elected. But no worries, it won't happen.”
-hapiest girl
Y'all lost. Get over it. Or it's going to be a very looooong 4-8 years for you. Just ask me- I know.
"Y'all lost. Get over it. Or it's going to be a very looooong 4-8 years for you. Just ask me- I know."
So you didn't get over it, but we should. Why is that?
Also, just because you do charity work doesn't mean you can't be heartless. That's like saying you can't be racist because you have black friends.
If Trump doesn't turn out the way you had wished then don't get fooled twice --> Vote Libertarian next time...
"Also, just because you do charity work doesn't mean you can't be heartless."
Actually, it does. It's a SELFLESS act. And the fact that you're not logical enough to work that out is pretty scary.
iJay- I'm with you, man... Trump wasn't my 1st choice. Just the better of 2 unbelievable choices. Couldn't vote for Johnson- not because he couldn't win, but because I would trust him EVEN LESS with the presidency than Trump. Johnson was about half an idiot, unfortunately.
And no- I'm not going to vote libertarian just to get them equal funding in the next election; not when someone as dangerous and (imo) evil as Hillary Clinton is running. I simply couldn't do that.
"So you didn't get over it, but we should. Why is that? "
You're absolutely correct. But I have LEARNED. Hopefully some of you will, too. Otherwise this nation will remain as starkly divided as it is already. Had Hillary won, you wouldn't be seeing me in the political threads; I would have dropped out of politics, until the next go-round. America didn't end with Bush, or Obama, it's not going to end with Trump. (altho I do believe it could have ended with Obama+Hillary back-to-back).
And right back at you: all I heard for 4 years was "give him a chance"... why not practice what you were preaching not-so-long-ago?
But, I learned. You'll notice:
1) I don't defend Trump. I only defend against the ignorant stereotype that Trump voters are racist/sexist/bigot/homophobic/mysogynists. And the idiocy that Trump is already destroying the country when he hasn't even been sworn in yet LOL.
2) my flag is still in "distress mode"... while I'm happy that Hillary lost (note I did not say that Trump won), I am under no illusions that this guy is some kind of savior (like most of you thought about Obama). If things improve, good. If they don't, he won't get re-elected. But he's got to prove himself.
Remember, the Libertarian party embraces the true Republican sprit -- that's why it was created. And I agree that Gary Johnson didn't cut it. I really wish we will get a true Ron Paul successor in the future...
I could have voted for Rand, even tho I don't trust him 100%, and he's no Ron....
"true republican spirit" - yes, that's why my screen name is JeffersonRepub. I consider myself a Jeffersonian Republican. (and please, don't start with the trolling "oh- you must think owning slaves is ok then" ridiculousness. It only shows your IQ matches your shoe size, and your wisdom is non-existant.)
"No boasting- just illustrating how ignorant you are, with your stereotyping of people who disagree with you" Yeah baby, cuz I would never do that: "But then- that's the liberal M.O." Oh, wait, was I stereotyping people who I disagree with? Not me, I would never generalize and say "You democrats have a real identity problem, and with this election a real stereotyping problem." Nope, I would never even slyly do things like call you stupid "But I don't expect you to figure that out."
"I know people who voted for Hillary, I don't think lesser of those people for doing so" unless they are liberal or democrats, in which case they are liberal... Even though "losing this election really has exposed the WORST of you." Every last one of you. You guys. All of you.
JR response of the day: "Um yes you did how about backwards and stuck in the past. LOL"
Amazing to me that some are still bashing Hillary and even Bill while telling their supporters to let it go....... Or continuing to use Hillary stories to defend Trump. Haters gotta hate, even charitable ones. Last I knew, Peter doesn't give you a pass to heaven just because of some charity. It's just one part of living a good life.
I mean this women just publically lost the biggest game in the world. Worse than that, everyone thought she would win, even Trump. That's just gotta hurt. And yet many keep kicking that dog even to the point of screaming "lock her up" and even "execute her." Are the Hillary for Jail signs still up? No one bothers Bush who retreated in shame to his man-cave at the ranch. Seems we are in the season where you feel better you have to have somebody to blame.
Is America Great again yet?
PANTS ON FIRE ALERT: "Had Hillary won, you wouldn't be seeing me in the political threads; I would have dropped out of politics"
"America didn't end with......Obama" Really? Somebody grab jr refuting himself... Oh wait, he means if it did end with Obama, we would be called Americobama.
1) you need to check your reading skills, SD: it's not me you're quoting.
2) as I said, *I* learned. Maybe, in time, YOU will too. Good luck.
You know things went bad when 5 Democratic electors went away from Hillary.One even voted for a spotted eagle over her.3 other electors were replaced because they wouldn't vote for Hillary.
Add in Hillary broke a 104 year old record of 5 Democratic electors not voting for her.
It is a Merry Christmas!
JR, i'm more into Hamiltonian Democracy than a Jeffersonian Republic. And therein lies the basic divide that led to the civil war. And we all know how that ended up.;)
From the looks of Trump's latest tweets, America may end on his watch if he really pushes with expanding the nuclear arsenal. Of course, nuclear proliferation experts are trying to pull Trump back in line but when has Trump or any of his followers listened to an expert on anything? This is what is most frightening to me, that we live in an era where facts don't matter and people who actually know what they are talking about are ignored. From nukes to climate change and everything in between.
Nice, very nice. It's the season so why not a Mulligan figuring a little early to the egg nog....
"I sincerely hope you have a happy holiday..." "...and that life brings you happiness in all that you do. I do mean that btw."
Follow
Donald J. Trump
✔ @realDonaldTrump
The United States must greatly strengthen and expand its nuclear capability until such time as the world comes to its senses regarding nukes
11:50 AM - 22 Dec 2016
Merry Christmas!
election poem
The election is over, the talking is done
Your party lost, my party won
So let us be friends, let arguments pass
I’ll hug my elephant, you kiss your ass
While I'm all for re-building the military to an extent, IDK where the hell all this nuke stuff came from... I think the world has enough nuclear weapons, thankyouverymuch.
Now... nuclear POWER PLANTS, THAT'S what we should be building, if y'all want to get off the fossil fuels... because solar and wind ain't gonna' do it.
Arms race- outmatch them. Is that what he just said?
Suddenly my life flashed before my eyes and I remembered the school alarm and being marched out to the hallway to lay face down and cover my head with my arm.
I guess you do need to have been around in the 1950s.
It all just keeps stupidly repeating .
I believe it's because the US nuke system is antiquated.
It needs to be modernized.I believe Russia has the latest nuke tech and Trump want to do the same.
Well,why take the chance.
Modernize the system so no one thinks they have the advantage and uses nukes.
Because the 7100 probably includes a large number of aged weapons. The weapons, after so many years, need to be refurbished. Also the 7100 nuclear weapons are sized for a cold war environment. Today the need is for more tactical nuclear weapons; i.e. smaller weapons that can fit into cruise missiles, small missiles, and smaller re-entry vehicles. This is not to say we don't need the city-busters, it's to say we probably need a wider mix of weapons. And to re-address the city-buster missiles, the missiles may need to be resized to fit efficiently into today's delivery systems.
Another thing, which I don't really know anything about, but it has been mentioned in some articles. That is that most of the people involved in the cold war production of nuclear weapons are now retired/passed away. Today, there may be an issue with the availability of nuclear weapons engineers and scientists to renew and redesign tomorrow's nuclear weapons.
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-nukes-silos-20141110-story.html
and the LA Times is a Liberal newspaper
I did mean that, sincerely, when I wrote it. I tried to cut you some slack around the holidays, thinking that you really did just misunderstand my post. And then you did your thing and so I changed my mind. So consider my comment rescinded.
Here's to hoping that you reap what you sow, that the vibes you put out to the world come back full circle, and that the arrogance you show to others is returned in full plus interest.
For everyone else, Happy Holidays!
Even if only a smaller percentage of those 7100 nukes are functional, they're still enough to basically destroy every major city worldwide and make the earth uninhabitable. So why would we need more?
Oh, wait...there I go using common sense again.
When the moment arrives and you need to use them, do you want and try and figure out which of the so called small percentage are actually functional. Or just launch them all and hopefully the functioning ones are able to hit the target(s) you want to go after.
I have been seeing a number of opinion articles that compare Trump to Kaiser Wilhelm II of Germany, a comparison that has validity, unfortunately, IMO. Here is a link to one from Australia:
http://www.smh.com.au/comment/trumps-belligerent-bluster-triggers-alarms-on-centenary-of-wwi-20151217-glpv8p.html
Though a year old, it pretty much reads like it was written today.
Here's another, from Germany.: http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/wahl-in-amerika/narzissten-warum-donald-trump-so-gefaehrlich-ist-wie-wilhelm-ii-14447455.html
I would have preferred 2-3 other GOP candidate but I'll take Trump over a corrupt,untrustworthy etc HC.
Trump surrounds himself with such wonderful, pleasant and philanthropic people. "Millionaire slumlord turned failed New York gubernatorial candidate turned Donald Trump New York campaign chair Carl Paladino has apprised the New York alt-weekly Artvoice of his wishes for 2017: He would like Barack Obama to die of mad cow disease and Michelle Obama to “return to being a male.”
"Solar, Wind, Tidal, Geothermal systems can take over all needs..."
Not yet they can't.
JR...I read all the charitable things you've done, and I think that's great. Question: Do you think all Americans should have access to affordable or free, unlimited healthcare, regardless of income? I'm interested in your opinion , regarding this matter, if you would be so kind, as to share your insight. No worries, if not.
I saw this swamp coming a mile away. He already said it was B.S. The guy is a showman. He knows what people want to hear. He's the only guy, that can outright lie to an entire country, and word it SO perfectly and subliminally, to make the supporters cheer, that they were just lied to. Hahahaha!!!...I just have to laugh at some of those people... or I start throwing things at the TV, in frustration, how blind some people are. We should've just elected Christie. What's the difference?... besides wealth.
For you investors out there, you might want to buy a $30k condo, down in Atlantic City. They are doing a $75 million(last I heard) revamp, the land has been getting cleared a lot quicker, lately. They are taxing out the poor,(check Zillow), so the state can get the "undesirables" out, and get their property for pennies on the dollar. I knew something was up, when I saw Christie and Trump, walking into the first debate, arms around each other. Both scum.
Those poor people, down there. There lives turned into shambles, after scrubbing toilets for 15 years or dealing with rich gamblers yelling profanities at them, for years, while rich CEOs walked away with millions.
I watch a documentary about how Hitler rose to power. The verbal and physical actions were very similar to how Trump ran his campaign. I think he watched ALOT of Hitler stuff, to gather info, how to win. Quite interesting.
LOL, JR.
I will say it AGAIN:
Equating "the choice of a doctor" to people who have been robbed and are suffering financially because of Trump's thievery is a heartless comparison.
When you don't agree with someone, you respond with your *oh-so-predictable* childish outbursts.
And you lie.
I never said that you --- or anyone who is a conservative or republican, is [ to use YOUR words ] a "rich / white / heartless bastard / racist / bigot / misogynist."
So Cut your Crap !!
YOU are the one who calls people names and labels them as you wish.
You sound like a very angry person to me.
@sparks - yes you're right with the comparison. I watched the video posted on the venting thread and was struck by how similar it was to the 30's - there are also a lot of similar tirades towards black/muslim/latin people. Similar to what was done in Germany - it initially began with Jewish shopkeepers/professionals being verbally assaulted, confiscation of property, physical assaults, torture and murder. So called "good" citizens would watch the attacks and do nothing because ultimately Jews, and other groups targeted by the Nazis, were less than human. Watch that video or any one of the ones available and you'll see the same thing - the victims are not being viewed as human (after all they are not 'Americans') and therefore the attacks are justified.
Here’s a poem by Michael Rosen:
I sometimes fear that
people think that fascism arrives in fancy dress
worn by grotesques and monsters
as played out in endless re-runs of the Nazis.
Fascism arrives as your friend.
It will restore your honour,
make you feel proud,
protect your house,
give you a job,
clean up the neighbourhood,
remind you of how great you once were,
clear out the venal and the corrupt,
remove anything you feel is unlike you…
It doesn’t walk in saying,
“Our programme means militias, mass imprisonments, transportations, war and persecution.”
Yup... that's what's happening right now. And whatever you do... don't say "happy Holidays", anymore .It's not P.C. It's" Merry Christmas", da*it! People actually will bark that back to me, in my face, angrily, as if I'm to assume, every single person, in American celebrates Christmas. So.....MERRY CHRISTMAS everyone. Doesn't apply? Eh....
P.S. the above season greeting was sarcastic. I'm hoping you ALL have a wonderful holiday season... however or whatever you celebrate.
hapiest- MY crap? ROFL. You need a diaper for your mouth, so much crap comes out of it.
As I said: standard liberal M.O.: you must HATE everyone you PERCEIVE as being less loving than you are. It's a mental illness if I'm being generous, and a deep hatred if I'm not. Much hatred in you I sense, hapiestgirl. Being tempted by the dark side, you are.
sparks-
I have been against so-called "universal healthcare" from the beginning. However- it seems like something that at this point is unstoppable, so if it's going to happen, I would like it to at least be a FUNCTIONING system, not what we have now. So, I would say this: if you want some kind of single-payer (govt paid for) healthcare, START WITH THE VETS. They deserve it more than anyone else, their VA system is so broken as to be an embarrassment and an insult, and if they can figure out a way to fix the VA, then MAYBE they can use that model for the country.
But no- I do not, have never, and will never, believe it to be a "right", because it's NOT. That doesn't mean the country can't HAVE a universal healthcare system, but calling it a right is simply FALSE. Because it isn't. And trying to use the Constitution to say that it is (with the line "promote the general welfare") is weak AT BEST.... you might as well even say no one should ever have to work, because the govt should "take care of us" cradle-to-grave...I mean, that IS "general welfare", right?
Universal healthcare is not a right, but it might just be an idea "who's time has come." And I'm actually alright with that- because there are alot of ideas "who's time has come", constitutional carry being one of them... and at least IT actually does have a specific amendment declaring it a right...
So how about this: the left can have their so-called "right" of universal healthcare, and the right can have our actual right of constitutional carry. Deal?
"and at least IT actually does have a specific amendment declaring it a right."
I think everyone should be required to purchase a new firearm each year, or have a tax penalty applied if they don't.
I mean, if we're going to go down the path of mandating what rights we must exercise/fund, it only makes sense. Besides, everyone is in the militia, so it's probably Constitutional to require everyone be armed.
"Besides, everyone is in the militia, so it's probably Constitutional to require everyone be armed."
Hey, that's how Sweden does it- and we all know Europe is always "more correct" than America!
more moral imperatives which cannot be deduced from empirical observation, and deliberately introducing logical fallacies again?
With the Israel matter, I can't resist circling back to the comparison of Trump to Kaiser Wilhelm II.
It is said that the European countries stumbled into the catastrophe of WW1 blindly, and that the Kaiser was as much or more responsible than anyone.
After the assassination of that Austrian Arch-Duke, Wilhelm, confident of German power, basically gave its ally Austria a blank check, i.e. whatever you want to do, we'll back you. This gave Austria the nerve to threaten Serbia, which roused Russia, and ...........[other stuff].......... the war was on.
Will Trump give Israel a blank check also? No doubt there are powerful elements in Israel that want to make the West Bank part of Israel, without giving equal rights to the Arab population there.
Israel has been unfairly targeted and when they've tried to make attempts at peace that included freezing settlement building or removing settlements all together, they've only been met with more aggression. Israel is being treated like the bad guy here, when they didn't start the war of 1967 & they didn't choose to have terrorist attacks happen in their country post evacuation of Gaza. They are the only Democracy in the Middle East and the only country that shares our values.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War
"Nasser induced Syria and Jordan to begin attacks on Israel by using the initially confused situation to claim that Egypt had defeated the Israeli air strike. Israeli counterattacks resulted in the seizure of East Jerusalem as well as the West Bank from the Jordanians, while Israel's retaliation against Syria resulted in its occupation of the Golan Heights."
The recent U.N. resolution directed that Israel's territories seized during the 1967 war are to be considered "occupied Palestinian territory". East Jerusalem or the West Bank specifically. These territories did NOT belong to Palestine in 1967. They were territories seized from Jordan.
it is the equivalent of New Zealand showing up to the U.N and saying that Mexico should have Arizona returned to them, calling a vote and the other nations in the U.N. agree.
1. Israel was attacked, they weren't the aggressor in this war and are being treated as if this was their choice.
2. They seized territory from Jordan as a means to get the 1967 war to stop, and to prevent future wars from starting.
Stop the Arab equal rights garbage - Obama just threw a long time ally under the bus to get back at Netanyahu, during a lame duck period, knowing FULL well this is not what the incoming administration wanted. We all better hope that Trump can fix this quickly.
Skippy, Israel started the war:
https://youtu.be/9zQDiTmu-YI
The Zionists don't want you to know the truth. What did they gain:
West Bank - High ground above a narrow section of Israel with historical significance for Jews
Golan Heights - Highest land, water reserves, buffer.
Talk about TRUMP starting another war with russia....LOL
Obama expels 35 Russian diplomats, gives them 72 hours to flee the country...puts sanctions on Russia.... gee, nothing like leaving the new president with a "mess"...
http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/29/politics/russia-sanctions-announced-by-white-house/
Obama, the intelligence community, democrats and republicans all appear to be supportive. The "mess" that Trump naively (or purposely) ignores requires action. More action than Trump blaming computers. When Obama leaves office, Trump is free to reverse the actions.
Take a look:
https://youtu.be/dq1LK2qMwLA
Then see 2-5. You want your taxpayer money going to this?
You're trying to say that Obama is creating "a mess" for Trump to deal with? Russia fixed a United States election! You don't think we should do anything about it? No probably not, since your happy with the outcome. Trump probably feels the same way.
Israel smishrael, any concept of a two-state solution is over as Rabbi Friedman, Trump's bankruptcy lawyer savior, takes over as ambassador in January. No conflicts, nothing swampy here. "“Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day.”
The two-state concept, envisioned in 1937, was U.N. sanctioned in 1947, but not implemented due to war where Israel ended up with a larger chunk of land than sanctioned. The two-state solution has been supported by U.S. Presidents for decades. Although we have disagreed with Israel over this, we have continued to overwhelmingly support them while condemning them for any maneuvers against a two-state solution.
Now Trump seems to offer Israel a free hand in the matter.
“Presidents of both parties have long called for a two-state solution that envisions eventual Palestinian statehood, and Netanyahu says he agrees. Friedman does not. He's called the two-state solution a mere "narrative" that must end.” http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/12/26/trump-pick-for-ambassador-to-israel-has-all-sides-on-edge.html
"Russia fixed a United States election"
Stated as fact without context. Real Proof without supposition?
Are you not paying attention to current events, or just dismissing the events that don't fit your narrative? I suspect the latter.
"Stated as fact without context." Really? Somebody living under a rock? Means, motive, opportunity? Read the report, they are even naming names..... https://www.us-cert.gov/sites/default/files/publications/JAR_16-20296A_GRIZZLY%20STEPPE-2016-1229.pdf
“Talk about TRUMP starting another war with russia....LOL” Oh give us a break. Another war? Over 35 spies, I mean, diplomats. What you smoking now?
“You're trying to say that Obama is creating "a mess" for Trump to deal with.” Of course, Trump wants to avoid this. If he admits the hack, he has to give up his self-proclaimed greatest political landslide victory in the history of U.S. politics. Putins, I mean puts a damper in his more beloved than Washington mindset.
Now he is right that the intelligence community has been wrong before. Iraq II, Iraq I, Vietnam, --- some pretty big ones and only one good one. There is no way that those occurrences mean you dismiss them out of hand. Read the report Trumpidiot.
Now Putin, who is an evil genius, has responded that he won’t respond. Nice master play. Uh oh, does he know something we don’t. Has someone been playing “let’s make a deal?”
Here’s the funny part. If there was communication twixt Trump n Putin, it’s International. That means, under the Patriot Act, it’s free game for NSA listening and you know they were listening. Heck, he’s just a citizen, not even President yet. No harm, no foul, legally speaking.
Think someone may have just gotten a chit at the gaming table. Wanna bet Trump stops slamming intelligence going forward?
The latter, but it's due to long-term "narrative" manipulation by Republicrats. The Boy Who Cried Wolf only works so many times, so with the only "evidence" being circumstantial (even if true) I'm sticking to my position. Kindly provide a link that isn't based on circumstantial evidence and I'll be more than happy to change my mind.
I'm at the point where "show me" is the only thing that gives credibility to whatever narrative is currently being pushed by the government. There's too much history we are being asked to conveniently forget to just go along with the current saber rattling and war mongering.
So blindly follow your leaders' direction based solely on their say so. I'll watch for a bit and judge for myself, thank you.
BTW Gadfly, while you're at it please define "fixed" when you say the Russian government "fixed the election", stated as fact of course. I think you mean "manipulated" the election, but that doesn't quite emote the same thing, does it?
“It’s a pity that the current U.S. administration is finishing their work in such a manner”, adding that Russia refuses “to sink to the level of this irresponsible “kitchen” diplomacy.”
Putin ended by congratulating U.S. President-elect Donald Trump, and the American people on the New Year and invited the children of U.S. diplomats to a holiday celebration at the Kremlin.
With one statement, Obama lost the diplomatic war to Putin
When it comes to Putin....Obama doesn't realized that he is way over matched.
Yet,I'm sure Obie is not done making a fool of himself.He has 20 or so more days of moronic behavior to go.
Gadfly, show us the evidence that Russia FIXED the election. Do you mean that the Russians gave the hacked e-mails from the DNC and John Podesta to Wikileaks? I have not heard that this has been stated as fact. Also, none of what was released by Wikileaks have been disputed by anyone, at least not yet. Did they influence the outcome of the election, maybe, maybe not. Didn't the Obama administration try to influence the outcome of the Israeli election? I agree that this type of activity needs to be stopped regardless of which side you're on.
People (like Gadfly) keep repeating the line "The CIA an the FBI have stated that Russia Hacked the DNC." Funny thing is, NOT ONE CIA employee or FBI employee has come out, in person, in any interview stating this as fact, not one.
Even a guy on MSNBC's Rachel Maddow show (a very Liberal station and host) who was from the CIA would only say "they are pretty certain" that Russia was behind the hacking. He even admitted (on television, on MSNBC to Rachel...) that they don't yet have any "hard evidence," they just "know Russia is behind this..."
But those who want it to be true, with every fiber of their being, keep stating it as an actual proven fact - when it's still all conjecture as of now.
"People (like Gadfly) keep repeating the line "The CIA an the FBI have stated that Russia Hacked the DNC." Funny thing is, NOT ONE CIA employee or FBI employee has come out, in person, in any interview stating this as fact, not one."
Lol. Oh yeah? You think that's how the intelligence community works? They're just gonna come out and do an interview on FOX, maybe invite you behind the scenes to show you their evidence, just so they can convince Heidi and kb2755? You think that's how the CIA functions? That's funny Heidi.
"Funny thing is, NOT ONE CIA employee or FBI employee has come out, in person, in any interview stating this as fact, not one."
Well, it's not funny, because these agencies, especially the CIA, do not report to the public. The people they DO report to are for the most part saying they are convinced.
Can any of us be positive? No, not 100%. But there is plenty to go by.
Washington, DC -- Today President Obama sanctioned Russia and expelled 35 Russian diplomats from the United States based on the release of the intel community's thorough intelligence report outlining all the details of Russia's involvement in interfering with the 2016 presidential election.
However, the publicly released report has been criticized by many.
"I find it very difficult to believe that the president of the United States would use this report to take the action he did in response to what is just a general description of how Internet scams operate," said one expert. "Who put this report together, the hackers?"
The intelligence community claims this is exactly what happened. The hackers were so good, they hacked the report.
"The problem with this so-called intelligence report is there is no actual intelligence," said another expert.
James Comey of the FBI explained: "The reason our released report looks so lame and stupid is because the hackers actually hacked the report and made it look stupid."
McCain is one of the few doing the right thing (January 5th hearing). The intelligence agencies are united on their information that Russia was involved. To brush off the information WITHOUT speaking to the heads of the key agencies and without demanding more information speaks volumes about the Republicans and especially Trump as he continues to praise his BFF, Putin.
"In the past week, Donald Trump has routinely attacked the assessment of the CIA and 16 other intelligence agencies that the Russian government sought to actively influence the outcome of the American election. It must warm to cockles of whatever Vladimir Putin calls a heart to hear the president-elect of the United States attacking America’s intelligence agencies, and defending the GRU, SVR, and FSB. He has reportedly begun to indulge in a theory that the intelligence community is “out to get him.” http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/12/19/trump-has-churchill-rolling-in-his-grave.html
So did the Russians hack into the voting machines to change votes casted from Hilary to Trump? Or are you fixated on the Wikileak e-mails which clearly showed how corrupt the DNC was and what a real weasel John Podesta is.
Even if they did hack th DNC or hillaries email for that matter - it's not tantamount to throwing an election. Again I think this is a distraction from something else as much of the MSM is now.
Obama is clearly punishing those who went against the Democratic Party in the election and were perceived to be meddlers, most notably Israel and Russia
This is what we've come to.....Russia fixed our presidential election and may well have changed the outcome, and neither the GOP Pesident Elect nor the GOP supporters on this forum care one whit. How could that be? Because they won, and they don't really care how it happened, even if it was Putin who selected our next President.
The fact that they did hack emails, released them and actively tried to create instability in the election process is a problem. It's not a problem specific to the DNC - it's a problem for Donald, the RNC and entire country.
It's odd and pathetic that so many people are willing to buy the craziest conspiracy theories but because they like the fact that Donald won any manipulation by Russia is either not true or important.
Define "they" Bonv. And Gadfly, still waiting for the links with more than just demonstrative "proof".
So far, there is evidence pointing to a Russia-based group(s) that did the actual hacking (although technically, all they did was take advantage of folks who give up their personal info *freely* without *questioning* the source - maybe they should invest in some tin foil since the thinkers tend to be lumped in with that group lol). The group(s) is suspected of being directed by the Russian government due to other documented attacks where it was also believed the Russian government had played a role. Those previous suspicions are being extrapolated to the current event by our intelligence agencies. They may be good conclusions - in fact probably are good conclusions - even though there is no actual proof. Only speculation. Right?
The bigger issue here is hissy-fitting politicians who are now threatening actions that are, by far, much worse than mere suspected meddling by the Russian government. Because even if all the accusations are true, in the end that's all the email releases amounted to - meddling. No "fixing" of the election, not even close.
Funny, though, that Russian government meddling (if proven) didn't present "fake news" or false information at all. In fact, every bit of the released information has been confirmed as *true* - no speculation or assumptions needed.
So in the end, all this narrative is trying to do is to convince everyone to focus on placing blame for the hacking instead of looking at what *is* real: The outright manipulation and misrepresentation of political information presented to the public by the DNC (and the RNC, I'm sure). IOW, is shows how utterly disgusting and dysfunctional the two party system of politics is. That's why the continued narrative, to distract from the reality of how the system works and how it's operators behave.
Trump praising the man who murders journalists, annexes countries, murders Syrian civilians and freely initiates state takeovers of public companies. Trump's loyalty to the United States takes a back seat to his hero worship of Putin. Going to be an ugly four years. Buckle up.
1. Of course it is "fixing".
2. Proof? The CIA is never going to give you proof of anything JIT. Of course you know that, but you chose to set a impossibly high bar for credibility to suit your own position.
3. If the Russian hacking had been designed to help Hillary, and she had won, you would be taking a very different position, and you know it.
You do realize our country and many other try to hack into other countries email and other systems.
Germany's Merkel was not happy with Obama's administration bugging her phone years ago.
You do realize HC lost to a reality TV billionaire because of her baggage and not because of alleged Russian leaked emails,
The leaked emails which showed how crooked and racist the DNC is along with Podesta but you Libs don't seem to care.
Ok Gadfly, please define "fixing" in the context you're posting so I can understand better. "Fixing" to me implies an outcome that was accomplished by deceit. If voters chose their candidate because they were exposed to the truth, would truth become your definition of deceit???? If so then we'll have to continue to disagree.
No, most I think are mad because the truth makes their team looks bad. And of course pretending to be the good guys is really important during election season lol.
As I've said probably a hundred times now: Republicrats just suck, so I'm all for truth across the board and am hoping the next round exposes the other "side" too.
Reports are that Obama knew about the hacking of e-mails as far back as October of 2015 but chose not to do anything because they were sure Hilary was going to win. Enough said.
I'm with JIT on this - it's not a fix it you expose the content of someone's strategy to influence the populace - party x did not influence electors or tamper with ballots - they exposed writings that a party would like to have remained out of the public view - and to date that is all still circumspect
As to your other points
"2. Proof? The CIA is never going to give you proof of anything JIT. Of course you know that, but you chose to set a impossibly high bar for credibility to suit your own position."
The CIA, FBI, and the entire government essentially hate daylight. They operate under the cover of darkness and justify it with claims of national security. True or false? You seem to trust them implicitly, which is a personal choice and fine if that's your thing. Others, those who are typically thrown into a generic "conspiracy theorist" bucket by the never-question-anything-the-government-says, just-beleive-what-we're-told folks, tend to ask questions. And if those questions are met with answers like "just trust us, we're right", I personally believe there is room for doubt (as should anyone I'd hope). Throw in known events that were proven to be false after the fact (glaring of course is the WMD claims that were used as the basis to start the LONGEST WAR in our countries history), I think a little bit of skepticism is not only needed but quite healthy. So to answer your question, yes, I demand proof for without it very hefty and costly decisions are made on what is most likely partisan speculation.
"3. If the Russian hacking had been designed to help Hillary, and she had won, you would be taking a very different position, and you know it."
Lol, do you not read my posts Gadfly? I'm a bit insulted by that comment! I would hope to have taken the same exact position, because it's the only logical one given my perspective on the crazy world we live in.
Actually Gadfly, I believe you should stop deflecting. You know precisely the point I'm making and are trying hard to ignore it.
Your are using the word "fixed" just as the talking heads of the blue team have been doing: "fixed the election" as in the Russian's actions resulted in Hillary's loss and Trumps win.
That is simply a false statement, even if the Russian's did have a hand in releasing the DNC emails. If the emails had any influence at all, it's because the truth in them caused some people to finally get how idiotic both R&D's have become in the modern world. You're saying that your team lost because the Russian's meddled and informed the US public of the truth. How ironic is that?
Now if the claim was "well, yes our team is a bunch of smucks but the other team is more schmucky than we are!" then OK. I'll agree with that all day long, except I'd clarify that I don't want ANY schmucks and would prefer they all went the way of the dinosaur, thus I have no love for either D's or R's.
Rather than bickering over semantics, it is clear that there was an attempt by Russia to influence the election. There is a strong consensus that this is factual. Trump chooses to praise the Russian leader rather than condemn him. The hacking, successful in impacting the election or not, was an attack on our democratic institutions and to defend the perpetrator is nothing short of treason.
"it is clear that there was an attempt by Russia to influence the election."
That's the point being debated. Tell me why it is so clear! And "because I say so" isn't a valid answer ;-)
And Yankeefan, to be more clear, even if it is proven true that Russian attained and provided the truthful information, you do know that it is US policy to do exactly what you just claimed is treason. IOW, be introspective of your claims because the translation is that it's perfectly fine if we meddle in the affairs of other countries (well documented meddling in the case of the entirety of the middle east for example) but treasonous if the same act is done to us. IMO meddling is just wrong, period. But I think Republicrats call people who don't want to meddle "isolationists" or something like that, right? So we're non-isolationists but everyone else must be isolationists. Got it!
And I've said multiple times that if the Russian's were behind the hacking we should deal with it. But by keeping evidence to themselves, the government just looks like a bunch of idiots by making claims and stirring the bees nest for partisan reasons. Easy to fix: provide the evidence.
Sorry, but you're trying to change the definition of the word "fix" and change the topic of conversation (whether Obamas sanctions were warranted). You'll forgive me if I don't play along with either of your atttempts to deflect.
Lol Gadfly, if you say so.
Hope you have a nice New Years. 2017 is shaping up to be quite interesting.
So, Gadfly...The guy from the CIA went on Rachel Maddow show on MSNBC (far cry from FOX, not sure where you came up with that one) for what then? You said they don't report to the public? Really? There are CIA and FBI spokespeople on both cable and network news all the time. He was on the show to talk about the supposed Russian hacking. I understand they might not want to divulge their sources or tell the public how they know that it was Russia -- but he CLEARLY SAID "We don't yet have any hard evidence, but we are sure Russia is behind this..."
So the CIA doesn't have any "hard evidence" but Gadfly knows something secret that the CIA doesn't???
By all reports the CIA has evidence of Russia's involvement. How much can they share with the public - probably very little but that's why the politicians and Donald should be demanding hearings. The fact that there is such a lack of interest is odd and troubling.
"....But proving that case to the public at large will get complicated. The discussion about the cyber intrusions and what U.S. intelligence agencies know about them goes directly to some of the most sensitive questions in the business: the best way to protect sources and methods, and how to use clandestinely acquired information to resolve a politically charged issue. ..." https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/12/27/why-its-so-hard-to-prove-russia-was-behind-the-election-hacks/?utm_term=.7ed66068e189
Heidi, go ahead and post a link to your clip and I'll be happy to look at it. I can't seem to find it, and a search of your quote yielded zero results.
Never thought I would see the day you guys would side with Putin over...........anything
"Have you seen the saucers?"
No, it's all just those republicrats.
"There goes the neighborhood..."
Obama is a complete joke...just leave!
Globalist Stooge - can't wait for him and his lady man get the hell out of the Whitehouse...yup she is a dude and you knew it
Go Joan Rivers...she actually died not much after this...but not really...Fake News - Yo!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Et38_Ufv-Jw
For JIT and others seeking parts of the hacking evidence. And yes, I have no doubt the US is involved in cyber escapades as well. The difference being, loudly, that the leaders of those countries we cyber spy on don't praise us. They aren't that stupid.
https://www.us-cert.gov/sites/default/files/publications/JAR_16-20296A_GRIZZLY%20STEPPE-2016-1229.pdf
Gadfly "Are you not paying attention to current events, or just dismissing the events that don't fit your narrative? I suspect the latter."
ROFLMAO if that's not the pot calling the kettle black (for the last 8 years), nothing is.
http://arstechnica.com/security/2016/12/did-russia-tamper-with-the-2016-election-bitter-debate-likely-to-rage-on/
White House fails to make case proving Russian hack
"Never thought I would see the day you guys would side with Putin over...........anything"
Not being (mis)led by politicians to a politically desired conclusion isn't "siding" with anyone. It's called thinking - maybe you should try it sometime.
FYI, I use the term Republicrat to describe folks that care more about team politics than about reality. They are easily spotted as they will blindly follow and regurgitate any and all talking points put forth by their team's leaders. Ask yourself if you fit that description and if that's why it's so hard to believe anything the other team has to say.
And also btw, several times I have specifically made it a point to say that the conclusions made by the blue Republicrats could very well be true. But because this issue is being used as a political football as an *excuse* why the blue quarterback fumbled and lost the game I call bs. Show the instant replay tape!
So the game continues, and the Republicrat pawns will do their part...
Like Trump,Obama is a petulant child.too.
Obama's full-blown, year-end temper tantrum
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2016/12/30/obamas-full-blown-year-end-temper-tantrum.html
Gadfly...how about you show us ONE clip of a CIA or FBI spokesperson saying they HAVE PROOF that the Russians hacked anything...
Oh, you can't?
That's right, because there isn't any. You just like to make things up.
The official releases:
https://www.dhs.gov/news/2016/10/07/joint-statement-department-homeland-security-and-office-director-national
https://www.us-cert.gov/sites/default/files/publications/JAR_16-20296A_GRIZZLY%20STEPPE-2016-1229.pdf
A lot of discussion about the hacking itself, but the connection of APT28 and APT29 to RIS is simply stated as fact with no supporting discussion. Again, while that connection may be 100% true we are being asked to just trust the govt here. Independent companies have made the same conclusion so I am at a loss as to why the government refuses to expsnd on this connection, especially since the entire episode is playing out as politically divicive.
Thanks for the link Yankeefan, I happened across it this morning myself.
Per my previous post, all the report does is outline the actual cyber intrusions, something I don't believe has been in question. The question has been whether or not the Russian government directed those activities, but there's not a peep about that in the report. Rather, there's simply a statement that APT28 and APT29 are run by the RIS, presented as a forgone conclusion stated as fact. That's the question everyone has, not the specifics of the hacking that has obviously occurred.
What links APT28 and APT29 to Putin and his government?
China welcoming in the year of the Rooster. Looks A little like Donald LOL...
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-38456410
Here is Matthew Sheffields take on the JAR.
http://www.salon.com/2016/12/31/down-the-rabbit-hole-governments-first-report-on-russian-hack-is-woefully-inadequate/
As for Joe's link to Obama's "petulant child" antics ... I believe his actions as of late are totally on point, but not because l'm a JIT "republicrat" who just blindly follows a team. I agree because these are actions l would personally like to see done. Russia hacking the U.S.? Hold their feet to the fire about it. Donald Trump obviously not going to be a champion for the environment? Protect it as much as possible while you can. And it's long overdue for someone to tell Israel to suck an egg. Stop being morons and building settlements in Gaza, West Bank, and East Jerusalem.
I'm sure Putin is shaking in his boots and this administration has never been a friend to Israel. So his actions of late are lame
What Israel is doing is both strategic and biblical (for them). If you got the balls go for it. Instead, they manipulate our country to back them and give money and dead Americans to the cause. A quite one-sided relationship they try to spin as otherwise...
A message from our president-elect:
"Happy New Year to all, including to my many enemies and those who have fought me and lost so badly they just don't know what to do. Love!"
The only one Trump loves is himself. "Period!"... as he would say. Not you. Not me. Not our neighbors. Not even our planet.
If I remember correctly, Hillary called the GOP her enemies and we were all a basket of deplorables. Were you all so outraged then?
It may be time to realize that Hillary lost and to upgrade your name blame. But if you just can't let go, at least get the context right.
Saw that one too jd. Was that real?
SD, yes, straight from his twitter feed. I got it as well. Our PEOTUS has the intellect and emotional maturity of a nine year old. And Ollie, she said half of Trump's supporters were in "the basket of deplorables". Not all. You are free to self identify.
How does this idiot hope to bring us together?
Freakin thin-skinned 2nd grader sandbox mentality.
Yes, that's true, Yankeefan.
Every time Trump opens his mouth he makes a bigger fool out of himself.
I'm a huge deplorable!!! And I have no shame in identifying myself as one. And evidently, many of us felt the same, hence exactly why Hillary lost. In four years if things aren't to your liking you can head to the ballot box and vote again. As for now, it's going to be President Trump, so suck it up like we did for the last 8 years.
Another expert at "sucking up" heard from. Heidi-ho neighbor.
"Not being (mis)led by politicians to a politically desired conclusion isn't "siding" with anyone. It's called thinking - maybe you should try it sometime." Sweet thoughts from a nice "thinking" man. He really thinks big time.
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc-news/watch/mccain-schedules-hearing-on-russian-hacks-845962307505 but the Trump knows better................really..............
Inaccurate Joe - It's called thinking............
4cat,Hillary lost and life goes on.
Now if you're going to root for Trump to fail causing the country to going down even farther,shame on you.
Both candidates were awful but Hillary was corrupt and dishonest and that was the difference for me.
15-20 years ago neither would dare to run.That's how far down the country has gone.
Why not give Trump a chance?He may suck or he may surprise.
The country needed a change.Among other things,the PC was getting ridiculous.
simple - Joe- I don't trust someone who constantly lies - who speaks in such miserable ways about human beings - who is buddy buddy with Russia - who thinks he knows everything about everything - well that's just the start of a list longer than I wish to waste my time on................oh - can't leave out his encouragement of hatred and violence - that's high on the list -
and Hillary is honest?C'mon!
The DNC was honest?Ask Bernie.
How about the DNC and Podesta's racist comments in the Wikileaks emails?
Deplorables isn't a miserable term for Trump supporters?
Putin...I don't mind Trump having a decent relationship with a super power.
Putin played Obama like a violin.Embarrassed Obama for the world to see.
Remember the Obama red line?
I preferred 2-3 other GOP candidates over Trump.I will give Trump a chance.
He can't be much worse than what we've had the last 16 years.
Ultimately many people that opposed Trump would prefer him not to fail but unfortunately, he continues to prove that he has no interest in being President but rather his interests lay in making more money for himself/family, rewarding his $$$ supporters through cabinet nominations, garnering the limelight and distracting everyone with his twitter "fights". He had an opportunity to step up and try to at least act Presidential but his continual tweets demonstrate how much he thrives on drama and negativity.
As for sucking it up, maybe Hillary supporters will take a page from the last 8 years and suck it up as non-graciously as those opposed to Obama have done.... from changing his name, lying about his birth, lying about his religion, flying the American flag upside down and so on.
Bonv, you'll note my flag is STILL upside down....
...and will remain so on Jan 20th, 2017, and until I feel America has finally taken a turn away from the cliff it's been driving towards at high speed. I have made no bones about Trump: better than Hillary? By a longshot. America's savior? Doubtful. How successful he will be, in reviving the economy, the consumer confidence, and keeping us safe on our ow soil, remains to be seen...
Pleeeeeze!
You can't compare what was done to Obama to what is being done and has been done to Trump.
Obama has had 90% of the media in his hip pocket.He could do no wrong when it came to the MSM.
I really believe the MSM is a big reason why Trump won.People just got sick of the MSM constant Obama masterbation.
"Obama has had 90% of the media in his hip pocket.He could do no wrong when it came to the MSM."
100% truth.
"I really believe the MSM is a big reason why Trump won.People just got sick of the MSM constant Obama masterbation."
Totally agree- it was a backlash against the propagandist MSM.
And so it begins...
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/house-republicans-gut-their-own-oversight-233111
“the Russians” succeeded in sabotaging the presidential election to hand President-Elect Donald Trump a victory?
http://townhall.com/columnists/jackkerwick/2017/01/03/politics-on-the-cheap-the-russians-hijacked-the-election-ii-n2266305
Still blaming Hillary even though you won, still running against Obama like he was running for President this time, still crazy after all these years.
"People just got sick of the MSM constant Obama masturbation." You just have to tell HLer's how that works and why jr. can be in total agreement with this picture. Takes two to tango but...... And I think it would serve Trump, Joe, and jr. to remember that the "people" did not "just got sick....." The people voted for Hillary with an electoral college override. Legal and just, according to the laws of our Republic but not the landslide Trump, and perhaps others, see.
If anything, Trump should kiss the Koch Bro's feet since they were very responsible for the local actions that brought Republicans to State power which tilted redistricting to their side which brought Trump to us over the popular vote. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/03/opinion/sunday/the-great-gerrymander-of-2012.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
"Obama has had 90% of the media in his hip pocket.He could do no wrong when it came to the MSM."
"100% truth."
Of course we conveniently forget that the MSM paid for Trump's victory with conspicuous free advertising through 24/7 Trumptweet coverage.
"He can't be much worse than what we've had the last 16 years."
Lofty bar no doubt. Congress starts by putting bill to neuter House Ethics through committee and onto the floor. If you can't see the swamp, it must be drained LOL.
For Obama's reign of American terror, many of the stats are positive including, from Steve Rattner:
"– The economy has added about 10 million jobs since he took office
– Jobless rate, which peaked at 10% in 2009 is down to 5% now
– Incomes are finally beginning to rise – after several years of decline and stagnation, in 2015, real median household income grew a solid 5.2%
– Budget deficit has fallen by ~$1tn
– US growth has significantly outpaced that of every other advanced nation
– Auto industry is back – the auto bailout saved over a million jobs – and the industry added a record 17.5 million jobs in 2015, up from 10.4 million in 2009
But the economy still has a lot of problems:
– Labor force participation is stuck at 1977 levels
– Incomes are finally inching up but remain below pre-recession levels
– Income inequality has improved but remains at historically high levels – with the top 1% taking in about 18% of the nation’s income
– Globalization and automation have left many people (esp those without college degrees) jobless and anxious – leading up to the Trump phenomenon
On balance though, the President will be judged to have done a tremendous service by dealing with the financial crisis, turning around the economy and putting the nation on the right track."
gutting the Ethics Committee - that should drain the swamp well - don't ya think: http://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/02/us/politics/with-no-warning-house-republicans-vote-to-hobble-independent-ethics-office.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0
The left not only lost the presidency but have also continued to lose seats in the house and the senate over the last 8 years. The people of America have been tired of the left's agenda and went to the voting booth to vote against their dissatisfaction. Stop blaming the messenger and blame the message.
"gutting the Ethics Committee"
Not really, the "House Ethics Committee" stays right where it is.
They are just rolling a relatively new "office" (created in 2008) under their jurisdiction. So question, why did we need both an Ethics Committee and an Ethics Office? Why not just have one group that does the job properly (and follows due process as outlined in the Constitution)?
The right track?
over 56% of of people polled say the country is going in the wrong direction with Obama.
Steve Rattner of the NY Times.
THE NEW YORK TIMES!
Why not the Huff Post too?
Jobless rated 5% is a joke.
It's actually 9%
The U3 is 5% but the U6 is 9%.
https://www.thebalance.com/what-is-the-real-unemployment-rate-3306198
A new study by economists from Liberal Harvard and Princeton.
https://m.investing.com/news/economy-news/nearly-95-of-all-job-growth-during-obama-era-part-time,-contract-work-449057
Obama has done so well that...
As President Obama prepares to leave office, his legacy will include an increase in the number of Americans using food stamps.
The number of food stamps recipients went up by 10.7 million people, a 32 percent jump, since President Obama took office in 2009, according to data released by the Department of Agriculture (USDA).
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/12/27/under-obama-10-7-million-more-use-food-stamps-a-32-percent-jump/
Obama,a net loss of 1,042 state and federal Democratic posts, including congressional and state legislative seats, governorships and the presidency.
That's one hell of a legacy.
"still running against Obama like he was running for President this time, still crazy after all these years."
Oh, you mean like how all the problems with Obama's presidency was Bush's fault, right? Or is only the LEFT allowed to play that game?
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/01/worst-president-ever-obamas-massive-20-trillion-debt/
Obama is leaving a legacy of $20T in debt "This means that Obama will have added to the US debt as much as all prior 43 presidents have done cumulatively."
eperot, and here I thought this thread was going to veer toward phallic size lol
Re Obama's accomplishments:
What type of jobs (90 something percent part time I think it was)?
What was the cost of those jobs? (Think debt/GDP- almost doubled iirc since he took office)
Actually he did a decent job of keeping the wheels on the bus. The systems we have are going exponential but he helped to keep things going, keeping the charade going for a bit longer.
And the way Trump is talking, he'll do just as well at keeping the exponential functions rolling along. No worries, it's all good! ;-)
Yes, CNN needs to use made up BS to support their made up BS..
https://www.yahoo.com/news/cnn-uses-screenshot-fallout-4-show-russians-hack-190753731.html
Ahh.. 4catmom... the fact that he wasn't *successful* doesn't mean he (and various states) didn't *try*.
The latest attempt... if you can't balance a check book you can't have guns.
http://www.latimes.com/nation/politics/la-na-gun-law-20150718-story.html
(There are newer articles, but I figured you would dismiss some of them just because of the site they were reported on.)
do you not think this part of the piece is appropriate?? "....................if they lack the mental capacity to manage their own affairs, "
That decision should be made by family or a physician not by broad sweeping government regulations
"do you not think this part of the piece is appropriate?? "....................if they lack the mental capacity to manage their own affairs, "
Then they forfeit their Constitutional rights? No, I find that highly IN-appropriate. What's next, IQ tests before one can vote?
I'm with Mark on this one- I'm a fiduciary for someone who is absolutely capable and would be a responsible gun owner.
Mark, do you have some kind of bat-signal that shines over your house the moment the word "gun" is typed in by someone on HL? It seems to be the most imortant concern in your life.
I agree and said as much: "....the economy still has a lot of problems," the largest being our national debt. I have yet to see what any of you would have done differently. If you're answer is spend less, then what would you have cut: ongoing wars? auto industry? banks? food stamps?
As JIT said: "Actually he did a decent job of keeping the wheels on the bus." As to the "charade," crap, if your business is failing and you don't have enough money for food, if someone was to give you a loan to remain afloat, and you though you could turn it around ---- would you take the loan?
So sure, I think pointing out those parts of the Obama legacy are valid. What I don't see as valid is blaming Obama for every single one of your ills. That's not making America Great again, that's just grating on America.
OK, unemployment. U6 may be the "more real" stat but both U3 and U6 are accurate and both have their weaknesses. The problem will U6 is first, it is self reported (are you discouraged? well no duh!!) and second counts a number of people who will not return to the job force as unemployed.
However, it doesn't matter because unemployment is a relative factor. What is the "right" unemployment number to strive for: 0%, 5% or 10%? What really matters is where you were, where you are, and the direction you're heading. U3 and U6 pretty much correlate with u6 being double u3. So if you like, Obama took U6 from 20% to 10% --- feel better?
"The number of food stamps recipients went up by 10.7 million people, a 32 percent jump, since President Obama took office in 2009." SPIN ALERT: Sure, food stamps are up. There was a very huge recession and the working poor are last to feel the trickle down, if they ever do. But inside your numbers are 33M SNAP recipients in 2009 and 44M today. You are accurate. However, the height was 2013 at 48M and today, 2016 -- it's 44M, a 10% drop from the spike. The trend line is moving in the right direction.
Add to that the working poor. That is, of the SNAP recipients expected to work, almost 50% are employed. Is the lack of a living wage, i.e. minimum wage, Obama's fault or that of Congress who has not raised the minimum wage since 2007.
And then there's "A new study by economists from Harvard and Princeton indicates that 94% of the 10 million new jobs created during the Obama era were temporary positions...."
Talk about spin --- I just love the conservative approach to media. First, Investing.com publishes this story ---- good luck finding the link to the study, good luck finding the 95%. Then, no fewer than 20 right-wing internet news, or whatever, outlets run the story verbatim or with added emphasis but absolutely zero fact checking....
Here's the report: https://krueger.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/akrueger/files/katz_krueger_cws_-_march_29_20165.pdf
And I quote from the report's conclusion: was part time work Obama's fault? "Many possible factors could have contributed to the large increase in the incidence of
alternative work arrangements for American workers from 2005 to 2015 that we have
documented in this paper." It's just that the people Joe reads, don't read...
Continuing: "it is plausible that the dislocation caused by the Great Recession in 2007-2009 may have caused many workers to seek alternative work arrangements when traditional employment was not available. Although we cannot assess how much of the rise in alternative work arrangements occurred in the aftermath of the Great Recession, if this is the case then one might
expect a return to a lower percentage of workers employed in alternative work arrangements over time, as the effects of the recession continue to fade."
And the icing on the SPIN cake is that the jobs uncovered in this report are mostly older, experienced workers, who are making some very good wages for their efforts. So congratulations Obama for creating this possibility and Joe for unconsciously uncovering the truth. LOL
JIT eats this up adding: "(Think debt/GDP)" Wait, stop da boat.... I thought debt/GDP was a silly statistic in JITonian lore? "Have you seen the saucers?" No matter, the real change was about 25% increase, not 100% son......iirc, it's 87 in 2009 to about 104 today. Don't matter, it's too high. And while it has peaked as of about 2013, we still don't have a downward trend line. More like a plateau.
"Obama is leaving a legacy of $20T in debt." Again, what would you have done? Well, now's you're chance to make America Great Again and most of the trend lines are in your favor so don't screw it up.
Except the "affairs" that they are talking about (and identifying someone as "prohibited" to own a firearm) are pension and disability payments, not debilitating mental or physical disabilities (which would be a topic for a different argument).
They are using someone's poor math/financial skills, via the Social Security Administration, to deny an enumerated Constitutional right that the government is prohibited from infringing on for any reason. Nobody said Obama isn't creative...
"do you have some kind of bat-signal that shines over your house the moment the word "gun" is typed in by someone on HL"
Yes.
"What's next, IQ tests before one can vote?"
Democrats/liberals/progressives (call them what you want) would be nothing if not logically inconsistent. ANY barrier to voting (even a mere ID card) is a horrible infringement, but they never saw a gun ban, waiting period, storage/purchase law, etc., they didn't like when it comes to guns (which, if I'm not mistaken, are mentioned much earlier in the Constitution than voting rights are - 2nd vs 14th/15th Amendments).
Although Obama *almost* had it right in a recent quote:
"It is untenable over the long term for the Justice Department or the DEA to be enforcing a patchwork of laws, where something that's legal in one state could get you a 20-year prison sentence in another."
Oh wait... that was for drugs. Having a patchwork of gun laws is fine and he loves the fact that NJ can put you in the slammer for something that you can literally buy in Walmart in 95% of the rest of the country.
"Democrats/liberals/progressives (call them what you want) would be nothing if not logically inconsistent" As opposed to the party of "ethics...."
"Oh wait... that was for drugs. Having a patchwork of gun laws is fine and he loves the fact that NJ can put you in the slammer for something that you can literally buy in Walmart in 95% of the rest of the country." Help me Marky.... Are you now opposing State's Rights in lieu of a Federal Mandate? Oh right....now that Prince Donald wants to begin chipping away at them because, well, because he will be King, it's OK....
Dude, is it even possible for you to communicate normally with others without the condescending edge?
As for the rest, I'll again mention my baseline for nearly everything I post: big picture trends. They ain't pretty, they ain't changin', and in fact are a result of how our political and economic systems are configured. We already know you don't care for or agree with that because you've poo poo'd my comments every time I try to talk big picture.
Your continued "solutions" are to keep on truckin', push through the obvious incongruities of thought just to make sure the money keeps on flowing. Fine, but I'll say it again that you're solutions ARE causing the long-problem and that IMO you are ok with that because you are reaping benefits today, not caring one bit anyone's future but your own. I can't say I blame you as we've had it pretty good in this country, but I'll be damned if *I* could ignore the obvious consequences of how and why we've had it so good.
Recall my mentioning in the past that my job is problem-solving? Nearly every day that's what I do, and I'd like to think that I've gotten pretty good at it. Don't mistake that for me saying I always have the answers: more often than not I don't and have always readily admitted it. What I do know is that problems only get solved by fixing their root cause, and the root cause we have here is our economic system and its unrestrained abuse by our legislators- with our collective permission I might add. It's a difficult problem to solve within the current two-party system because BOTH are rewarded in the current structure. And most normal people (I'll fully admit to falling outside the normal curve on that one lol) have too much going in in their lives to be bothered concerning themselves with the details and instead must rely on what they are told in the media. My stance is that our legislators no longer care about good stewardship, only their piece of the big game that runs on the built in reckless monetary policies and laws that allow them.
So you want solutions? Here's one: Tear those systems down by choice and rebuild them with checks and balances instead of waiting for, what should be clear to anyone even remotely paying attention, the wheels to finally come off. They are coming off, and even if it's not today or tomorrow we're on a path in which the trends tell a singularly disastrous outcome. Again, THE TRENDS before you get all uppity again about my not praising you for your intimate knowledge of how to grow gass (sounds better than "weeds", right?;-))
But... I guess I should be just like everyone else and go about my life as best I can and not worry about it. Surely there are smarter people than me who are noble and willing to do "the right thing", surely "they" will fix it. Yeah, I'm sure there must be someone, Trump perhaps? ;-) (Lol NO on that one)
"Are you now opposing State's Rights in lieu of a Federal Mandate?"
If those State's Rights are in violation of the Constitution, then yes.
The 2nd Amendment doesn't say "Congress" or "The Federal Government" can't infringe on the right, but it's OK for states to do it. It simply says "shall not be infringed" and upon incorporation of the Constitution to each of the states, they are also bound to that prohibition.
But you also avoided the crux of my post... that Obama finds it "untenable" to have a patchwork of drug laws but says nothing about the patchwork of gun laws. I mean surely if he (or the left in general) is only about "common sense" gun laws then there has to be *at least* one that even they find to be beyond common sense, right? Funny that I haven't heard them ever say "You know what? That law would be pretty stupid or ineffective" when it comes to guns. They support each and every one 110% even if it's completely opposite of what other states are doing.
JIT- Generalissimo of generalities, Viceroy of vague, Overlord of the opaque. I've responded to your comments several times, each time asking for specificity...granularity, to no avail. Against my better judgement, and since.I'm sitting in my Dentist's chair waiting for the novacaine to kick in, I'll ask again. Tear down WHAT systems? Replace them with WHAT? Looking forward to reading your reply while under the influence of nitrous oxide. :)
"Are you now opposing State's Rights in lieu of a Federal Mandate?"
If those State's Rights are in violation of the Constitution, then yes.
Perfection.
What specifically are you looking for JIT is speaking in broad terms - links are summarily disregarded for one reason or another here anyway. Good rhyming though - reminds me of the dispatcher from bringing out the Dead lol
I agree
Now why don't you run down to Trenton and show them where they made their mistake.
It's funny how the left always tries to make the right (and this season, Trump supporters) out as some kind of hate-crime populace....
Trump supporter kidnapped and tortured live on Facebook:
https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/5m25we/breaking_chicago_teens_kidnap_and_torture_a_trump/?sort=top
Yes, it's real:
http://www.fox32chicago.com/news/crime/227116738-story
If the races in the news story I posted were reversed, it would be a global news story right now...
Sure. As big a story as the cop walking free after shooting an unarmed black man eight times in the bsck. On video. Reverse the races and think about what your reaction would be. On to confirming Jeff Sessions. The racism in this new administration is frightening and dangerous. I recall the full page ad Trump took out demanding the death penalty for the kids arrested in the central park rape. Those kids served yesrs in prison before dna exonerated them. Trump may take us all right back to the seventies. And those were scary and ugly days.
Yankeefan, it would take a long time to convey the context within which I post, but the common theme is this: Our collective "problems" are merely symptoms of loose monetary policy and unrestrained (especially since 1971) government action in a world where money = debt (advertised on every paper currency-"This note is legal tender for all DEBTS, public and private). This is the same debt that makes up a good portion of our pension plans, IRA's and Social Security.
If you really want to understand then I'll ask you to please watch the following. IMO these folks have presented the info pretty well and is worth considering the long version of you can make the time.
Short version
https://www.peakprosperity.com/crashcourse/accelerated
Long version, very good IMO.
https://www.peakprosperity.com/crashcourse
Just looking at the English, and not getting into anything more substantive, the phrase "This note is legal tender for all DEBTS, public and private" would seem to simply mean that the currency can extinguish debt, not that it equals debt.
The Federal Reserve creates money to buy debt, whether it be government debt or private, thus our debt-based monetary system. No new debt means no new money. Conversely, money is destroyed when debts are paid off.
The only way to "grow" the amount of money in our economy is to continuously create more debt, which is why monetary data trends are exponential.
Well they sell treasury bills which the treasury pays interest on and they direct the mint to print money - so they can also devalue the currency which does not increase debt but it also has its own destabilizing effect
I can't believe that someone wouldn't be furious about that white teen being assaulted by those thugs. Minorities get away with everything.
1988LJ JIT, really very little to disagree with here... and very little that hasn't been expressed by many others for many years. It also appears that he's been touting gold and silver for years. http://www.businessinsider.com/the-screaming-fundamentals-for-owning-gold-and-silver-2011-6
What I take away is that he's selling his services and his premise is essentially that our current course is not sustainable. For a price, he'll tell us what to do.
Invest in community – In the end, no one can ever be 100% prepared for everything. The #1 factor in your success in weathering any future shocks will be the strength of the community supporting you. Make and deepen relationships with those important to you. Be sure to know what role you play and why others will value it if difficult times arise.
2.Protect the purchasing power of your financial wealth – Given the extreme economic risks we’ve detailed in this video, we recommend everyone own at least some gold & silver to protect against the probability of a currency crisis. For similar reasons, we’re not big fans of “paper investments” like stocks & bonds right now. But if you do own them, we recommend working with a professional money manager who understands the risks posed by the Three Es. If you can’t easily locate one on your own, we know a few good ones.
3.Reduce your dependence on fossil sources of energy – This includes both decreasing your personal energy footprint, plus potentially generating some of your own energy (for instance, adding a solar hot water heater to your house). With a little practice, you’ll realize that a small number of changes to your current behavior can dramatically reduce your vulnerability to the price of oil and other fossil fuels.
4.Source more of your calories locally – The produce in most grocery stores often travels thousands of miles to arrive there. Finding local food providers, plus possibly growing a small percentage of your food yourself, goes a long way to reducing your exposure to price spikes due to increased transport costs. Plus, you’ll find your food is a lot healthier and better tasting.
5.Boost your emergency readiness – The one thing we can say about a future defined by the Three Es is that there will certainly be surprises along the way. The difference between being even a little prepared for these versus not at all will prove massive. Use the time you have now to put in place emergency supplies for Add food, water, power, health care and other essentials. Hopefully, you won’t need to tap them – but if you do – you’ll be very grateful you had the foresight to put them in place.
6.Improve your health – a future of less energy means a future of having to do more things ourselves. In certain cases, medical care may either be too expensive or even unavailable at any price. Staying healthy – both physically and emotionally – will take on an entirely new, and heightened, importance.
1988LJ--Really?
From Human Rights Watch:
“The new incarceration figures confirm the United States as the world’s leading jailer,” said David Fathi, US Program director at Human Rights Watch. “Americans should ask why the US locks up so many more people than do Canada, Britain, and other democracies.”
The new statistics also show large racial disparities, with black males incarcerated at a per capita rate six times that of white males. Nearly 11 percent of all black men ages 30 to 34 were behind bars as of June 30, 2007.
In May 2008, Human Rights Watch released its report, “Targeting Blacks: Drug Law Enforcement and Race in the United States,” in which it documented racial disparities in US drug law enforcement, with black men 11.8 times more likely than white men to enter prison on drug charges, despite the fact that blacks and whites use illegal drugs at similar rates. Although whites, being more numerous, constitute the large majority of drug users, blacks constitute 54 percent of all persons entering state prisons with a new drug offense conviction.
“Decisions about drug law enforcement play a major role in creating the staggering racial disparities we see in US prisons,” said Fathi. “The ‘war on drugs’ has become a war on black Americans.”
By failing to treat this as a hate crime they just gave confirmation to anyone with any kind of racist mentality - on both sides. It both legitimizes their behavior as an outlet for rage against oppression and fuels the desire to treat African Americans more harshly in the judicial system - great job Rham
JIT says: "Conversely, money is destroyed when debts are paid off."
So, I pay for a laptop at Best Buy with a credit card. At the end of the month, I pay off the balance. I have no debt. Best Buy has my payment. No money destroyed as far as I can tell.
"No money destroyed as far as I can tell."
You also didn't *create* the money... unless you're paying with YankeeBucks.
"Dude, is it even possible for you to communicate normally with others without the condescending edge?" Very hard to do for morbidly stupid, thin-skinned, PC-focused, humorless martyrs to the cause. I will "endeavor to persevere."
Solutions? "Here's one: Tear those systems down by choice and rebuild them with checks and balances instead of waiting for, what should be clear to anyone even remotely paying attention, the wheels to finally come off." OK, so I think we're talking about debt-based money, loose monetary policy and, unrestrained government action -- whatever that is and the resultant end of days.
And then we roll Martenson out to substantiate the claim. First, yes the debt is too high and the deficit, while lower than before, is still a deficit. Second, sure, who would disagree with fixing loose monetary policies and unrestrained government actions. A Captain Obvious moment.
Chris Martenson is a smart guy who feels the wheels are coming off, the end is near and it's time to make alternative plans to living in our economy. Think he started feeling this way since 2000 but has yet to tell us when the rapture will occur so that he can claim credit for every speedbump along the journey. The US went into debt for the first time in 1790. Despite the ominous trend starting then, we are still here. Even though we were on the Gold Standard, we still had debt. Today, our debt/GDP is at 100%. It was at that level in 1945 too. Yet we came back and we are still here today.
So what did Chris do: "We moved to a more rural area where support from the community was far stronger than the impersonal suburban area we left behind. We began to grow a portion of our own food, shifted our saved wealth away from traditional paper investments and towards our health and home, always with the goal of decreasing our dependence on the potentially fragile systems that deliver our energy, food and water." Got your victory garden in JIT? Better start making your own seeds too.
But remember Chris's unstated prime rule. Have a HUGE pile of assets that you can convert to community, home and away from all that nasty paper that made you rich to begin with while you transfer away from our fragile systems to your strong community-based real-value systems.
What does Chris specifically recommend:
"1. Invest in community" you may need to bum off them tomorrow.
"2. Protect the purchasing power of your financial wealth" Well that pitch didn't take long to get to --buy gold, buy silver, according to Chris. Heck, I say put in a HUGE oil tank, and then a gas tank, all worth more than gold in the apocalypse. Oh yeah, and "If you can’t easily locate one on your own (financial advisor), we (Chris, that is) know a few good ones." (hopefully in your community lol) Sink the rest in solar panels and guns; you gonna need them when you're the only one with a garden.
"3. Reduce your dependence on fossil sources of energy" OK, I'm down for this
"4. Source more of your calories locally" Not sure my home-grown $5/lb tomato is the more efficient and effective model, but I like to garden so I'm down for this too.
"5.Boost your emergency readiness" See, makes that oil tank look better than gold don't it.
"6. Improve your health" OK with that. Hope the DR can be paid off in oil.
So for close to two decades, Chris has been profiting by preaching doom, having a victory garden in bum fart CT (that's rural?), and selling gold. And he's right, our economy will see tragedy and travail in the future. Frankly, that can be said about JIT's utopian economic model as well.
Amazingly what Chris left out, and it belongs even in a high level view, is the effect of fractional reserves in monetary expansion as well as the new interest bearing excess reserves held by the banks. How else do you explain the creation of close to $2T in debt-spending not causing rampant inflation? $2T expansion, hardly any inflation, and Chris does not even mention the phenomena that was initiated for the first time in history in 2008. This is a major faux pas for one describing the economy and the end of days.
Here's one guys contra view on oil and tomatoes: http://www.shawnalli.com/failure-of-chris-martenson-crash-course.html As to the economy, beyond lack of a discussion of excess reserve interest payments, the main fault is the conclusion that the end is near, it is absolute, and unstoppable. Sort of like admitting the Clinton years were impossible. Improbable yes, impossible no.
Sorry for any "condescending edge" that might make you condensate but while IMO our debt is way too high, debt in itself is not bad. And national debt and debt-created money are two different things; related but not on a exclusive basis. http://www.pbs.org/newshour/making-sense/why-debt-and-money-created-out/
Because that's not federal debt - when the fed authorizes the mint to print money they concurrently tell the treasury to release bills normally - when they determine they want the economy to shrink they destroy an equivalent amount of currency as those vest - other ways they Control it are cash on hand regulations And prime rates. If they don't take that money out of circulation they devaluate the fiat currency
Strangerdanger, here's a tip... If you want people to read your posts... Shorten them to a meaningful paragraph. You remind me of a Peter Jackson film where he adds an hour of unnecessary footage in his directors cuts...
Martha So let me get this straight...
If you yell "f*ck white people" while torturing a white special needs kid, the city of Chicago won't call it a hate crime, and the superintendent will say it's "just a bunch of kids".
If you yell "Allah Akbar" right before blowing yourself up in a public area, or shooting your co-workers, POTUS won't call you an Islamic terrorist.
If you burn down cities and destroy property, you're a misunderstood protestor fighting oppression.
But if you voted for Trump, you're a violent racist and white supremacist.
And the left wonders why they lost, why there is a such a backlash against "political correctness" and the mainstream media.
Anthony Bourdain- LIBERAL- one of the few these days with a brain apparently- got it right:
"I’ve spent a lot of time in gun-country, God-fearing America. There are a hell of a lot of nice people out there, who are doing what everyone else in this world is trying to do: the best they can to get by, and take care of themselves and the people they love. When we deny them their basic humanity and legitimacy of their views, however different they may be than ours, when we mock them at every turn, and treat them with contempt, we do no one any good."
Read the whole article:
http://rare.us/story/anthony-bourdain-last-of-the-real-liberals/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4091036/Call-disgusting-attack-Obama-s-yard-exactly-Trump-hating-race-crime-against-defenseless-white-man-young-black-Americans-shame-country.html
"PIERS MORGAN: Call this disgusting attack in Obama’s back yard exactly what it is... a Trump-hating race crime against a defenseless white man by young black Americans who shame their country"
Even Piers - who is as far left as is humanly possible is calling it a hate crime. Kidnapping, torturing, attempting to scalp, and forcing a mentally handicapped man to lick a toilet bowl is NOT just kids being kids. Meanwhile no FBI hard target investigation of the federal crimes that occurred here either.
Still resent the now-vanquished, JR?
Here's another opinion piece you may like as well as the one you posted. It's from the New York Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/05/opinion/why-rural-america-voted-for-trump.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-right-region®ion=opinion-c-col-right-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-right-region&_r=0
Huh? Resent? WTH are you talking about? Just illustrating WHY "your side" lost... if you want the Dem party to rebuild itself, you best take advice from those like Mr Bourdain, and not from those like Mr. Schumer and Ms. Cryptkeeper...uh, I mean Pelosi.
But hey- it's your "funeral." The dems will still tally your deceased votes anyway.
3 months ago it was all "Trump is the death of the republican party".... ROFLMAO.
Me? I'm just glad the pendulum swung the other way, because it needed to. I doubt I will ever see a worthy president in my lifetime. The populace has been to brainwashed by the 2-party system, worked into a hateful frenzy that shows no signs of letting up anytime soon.... as the republicrats intended.
We now know that Russia has hacked and manipulated our election.....if it had not, it is clear that Hillary Clinton would have won....what we must now do is reverse the results and remove Trump and all he has done to besmirch this country in the eyes of the world and our own people, even before he has taken office.....it's not too late.....and the election of a majority of Republican congressmen is also in serious question....we have seen the measure of this man throughout his candidacy.....we know who and what he is.....this could not be any clearer.....how can we accomplish this before our country is destroyed?....we need answers and we need action to erase this horrendous turn of events.......the sooner the better......
Russia did not go into our voting machines and steal the election.Hillary lost because she was a horrible candidate. You can stomp your feet and carry on like a spoiled child who didn't get what they want. The only way to reverse the results is 4 years from now nominate a decent candidate and go vote.
Funny liberals are all concerned about cyber security now that they have been exposed.
It's all Bushes fault 2000-2008. Still Bushes fault 2008-2016. It's all Trumps fault 2017. Hmmm.
Every liberal here swore up and down that Hillary was not hacked nor was the DNC - now you want to throw out the entire electoral process
Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi, who declined to prosecute Trump University not long after receiving a sizable and illegal donation from the Trump Foundation is set to join his administration. Another pay for play lackey.
http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/oct/24/clintons-top-10-pay-play-allegations/
The Clinton's practically invented that
Except that is nowhere even close to what he actually said 4catmom.
The word "interpret" was never uttered in his interview, and he said his response to someone hypothetically asking him "as a scientist, how can you not believe in certain things" is maybe that "thing" the other person believes as fact is indeed not truly scientific or is possibly propaganda.
So that "quote" is a mischaracterized conglomeration of about 4 or 5 sentences that he actually spoke, while adding in a word or two that he didn't say.
Brilliant, perhaps. Guy goes high risk with joined twins willing to risk his career for just a glimmer of a chance at a normal life for these kids. But thinks there's no risk in global warming so why even cut back on the pollution (which might have caused the joined twins to begin with). Weird.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/politics/2015/11/13/siamese-twin-separation-that-launched-ben-carson-fame-ended-poorly-for-twins/miZSU7XaINfDWFXWsfYLDO/story.html
Trump is the only one who can even begin to undo the mess America has evolved into since the '60's when civilized people were told to embrace new ideas. We need to get back to being one nation under God. This means, honoring the body (marry 1 person, and then make babies), working and earning an honest day's wage, and taking care of each other. And weekends should be for church and family, not drinking and drugs.
Good Christians voted Trump in.
Merry Christmas.
Yup...That describes Trump perfectly. "Marry one person, work hard and make an honest days wage" (ripping off contractors and ruining their lives don't count, nor does going bankrupt, at least 6 times, while holding on to his billions, or cheating on spouses, spewing vulgarities. Oh wait... he's a good Christian because when he was a kid, he "drank the wine and ate the little cracker". He does honor the body.... certain parts so much, he'll just grab them, because he can.
Right. Hillary wasn't hacked, it was "laughable" to think HER server was insecure, but the RNC was "hacked by the Russians". It's the only "reasonable" explanation why half the country disagrees with their presidential choice. The double standard and hypocrisy being exhibited by the left must be so embarrassing for them.
Well...a little less than half of the voters, not the country, right?
And then there's this...
CNN reports President-elect Donald Trump’s transition team has indicated to Republicans in Congress that the incoming administration would like to fund a long-promised wall at the Mexican border through the appropriations process. Throughout the campaign, Trump promised that he would get Mexico to pay for the wall. Transition officials have told House GOP leaders in private meetings they’d like to pay for the wall in a funding bill, a senior House GOP source told CNN. Early Friday morning, Trump tweeted: "The dishonest media does not report that any money spent on building the Great Wall (for sake of speed), will be paid back by Mexico later!" It's not yet clear how he intends to arrange that retroactive payment by Mexico.
Feeling just a little bit conned?
The socialist/liberals will be whining, complaining and talking incessantly about every sneeze, facial expression and tweet that President Trump makes for at least the next four years. We have to remember that they are now insignificant and should be paid no mind. We have a very short time to begin to piece together our once great country.
Let them flee to their safe spaces and twist and turn in the wind. We have work to do, in so many areas, lets focus our efforts on returning our country and constitution.
Mark That's funny. Like being a good "Christian " is equal to being a good person. I know a few good Christians who are despicable. Conversely I also know some atheists who are the best people I have ever met.
Exactly Mark! And all you Hillary supporter's will be very glad to know she plans on hanging around.. She may run for the mayor of NY!! Wouldn't that be fun to watch.
I can see a big demand for comfort dogs.May be a good time to buy Hasbro stock as Play doh sales will be amazing.
Put your big boy/girl pants on people.
Trump is the President.Stop crying and give the guy a chance.
Of course you can hope he fails even if it causes the country sink down even farther.You know,party over country.
The last 8 years has turned people into pansies.It's a shame and many don't see it.
"Well...a little less than half of the voters, not the country, right?"
Same difference. In a presidential election, the ones who vote ARE the country. If you don't vote, don't expect your opinion to count.
As far as "less than half", we've had the discussion on the electoral college already- it's not going anywhere, thank goodness. Despite what you say NOW (having lost), you would NOT want the popular vote to decide the presidency. You can keep emphasizing "less than half" all you want for the next 4-8 years, doesn't matter, won't matter. We aren't a true democracy, we are a representative republic...with an electoral college.
Oh for the days gone by. Our country needs to return to the kind of values it was founded on. Back before civilized people sitting on the verandah drinking lemonade were told they couldn't own other human beings to do their work for them. Good God fearing Christians who weren't yet told they had to accept new "ideas" like the 1965 voting rights act, or the 1964 civil rights act. I mean, negroes had their own drinking fountains and everything was just fine. Sure, their churches may have been burned down or bombed, but that's only because they weren't "real" Christians. Everyone knows Christ was a blonde European looking man. And now is our chance to put Jesus in the driver's seat again through the divine inspiration of Donald Trump. Now if you'll excuse me, l'm about to go impregnate my wife yet again. I may not be able to afford a 6th child, but it has nothing to do with my taking no personal responsibility for the events in my life through handing over all my decisions to the Lord. Instead, l think l'll blame it on Obama. Thank God savior Trump is only 2 weeks from the Nuclear codes.
please, you people displaying your stupidity in standing up for this elected monster......go to the library and read, will you?......you might just learn something before this matrix gets put in place.....
We have a thing called the internet making the library obsolete - any more apocalyptic predictions? Tell us more about how stupid we are.
And Eperot - what does the "Jim Crow" south or Christianity have to do with any of this? Straw Man?
Wow. Kerri wants to jump right into the 50's. Sorry, I need a weekend of drinkin and drugging to process that one. Least you got your little army of McCarthy wannabee's in this administration so you're off to a fabulous 50's start.
"Hillary wasn't hacked, it was "laughable" to think HER server was insecure, but the RNC was "hacked by the Russians" Unravel that pretzel logic....
"The double standard and hypocrisy being exhibited by the left must be so embarrassing for them." Nah. We just use you as the poster child titled "it can't get any worse than this."
Speaking of jr.'s embarrassing hypocrisy: "Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump · 4h4 hours ago: The dishonest media does not report that any money spent on building the Great Wall (for sake of speed), will be paid back by Mexico later!" Right after I show you my taxes and untangle myself from my financial holdings with an arm's length kiddie contract.
"We have work to do, in so many areas, lets focus our efforts on returning our country and constitution." So let's start pulling together as a team:
"Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump · 3h3 hours ago
Wow, the ratings are in and Arnold Schwarzenegger got "swamped" (or destroyed) by comparison to the ratings machine, DJT. So much for....being a movie star-and that was season 1 compared to season 14. Now compare him to my season 1. But who cares, he supported Kasich & Hillary" Compassion.
"Hillary and the Dems were never going to beat the PASSION of my voters. They saw what was happening in the last two weeks before the......and knew they were in big trouble - which is why they cancelled their big fireworks at the last minute.THEY SAW A MOVEMENT LIKE NEVER BEFORE" Of course, I thought I was going to lose but......
"Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump · Jan 5
The Democrats, lead by head clown Chuck Schumer, know how bad ObamaCare is and what a mess they are in. Instead of working to fix it, they...do the typical political thing and BLAME. The fact is ObamaCare was a lie from the beginning."Keep you doctor, keep your plan!" It is.......time for Republicans & Democrats to get together and come up with a healthcare plan that really works - much less expensive & FAR BETTER!"
Feeling great again? Only had EIGHT FREAKIN YEARS, over 50 repeals, he, DonnyDumpster, knew it was a lie from the onset, and yet......."time for Republicans & Democrats to...come up with a...plan that really works - much less expensive & FAR BETTER!" Yeah, maybe we can put our heads together and come up with something.....Let's see, been thinking about it for eight years. There must be a clue around here somewhere. Let's call Romney......
And from another Trump galaxy, far, far away: "So I’m very liberal when it comes to healthcare. I believe in universal healthcare. I believe in whatever it takes to make people well and better."
"Have you seen the saucers?"
eperot, a little early to be hitting the bong, isn't it?
Or maybe that's your thing: "wake and bake" LOL
“Elections have consequences.” It’s the political way for winners to tell losers: “Tough luck, you lost. Get over it.”
President Obama infamously espoused this view shortly after his 2009 inauguration, during a meeting with congressional Republicans about his economic proposals. Mr. Obama was later quoted as telling GOP leaders that “elections have consequences,”and, in case there was any doubt, “I won.”
Yes, Obama said it once. Trump and you folks like to say it everyday in everyway over and over and over..... Sometimes with a twist like "I won but more important to me, you lost, big time, the biggest loss ever, huge, fantastic, and I knew it all the time."
Trump 2020: "Get Over Hillary Again."
No one is disputing that, Joe. Trump is PEOTUS. His promises and policies are fair game, as were Obama's. And he's walking into a better situation by far than Obama did in 2008. If you recall.
Worth a look...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/keith-olbermann-trump-supporters_us_586f0eede4b02b5f858825ca
Yankeesfan,I'll be honest.
I got through 4:30 of the video.
Again,for me there wasn't a choice this election.Though I hated the PC of this administration,I didn't vote for Trump but am glad he won.
I could never accept HC as President but I wouldn't be on forums knocking her if she won.I'd deal with it even though she was too crooked and untrustworthy to me to be CIC.
I didn't like Bush and hated Cheney but never carried on with negativity after they were elected twice!.
I would have accepted Biden over Hillary in a heartbeat.
Sanders is too much of a socialist for me.
I believe Obama brought the country down and also believe it will be tough for anyone to be worse than he but we will see.
I do wish people would give Trump a chance but the far left and it's MSM just won't do it in hoping Trump fails even at the cost of the country going down farther.
He gets the same chance Obama got. Unrelenting obstruction and disrespect. I believe in country first and I and many others aren't simply going to roll over. I considered Trump unfit (primarily but not exclusively on an intellectual level) before the election and nothing I've seen has altered my perspective.
JR, It's called satirical humor, exaggerating another post above mine. I can't help that it was lost on you.
eperot, I think you've spent too much time at strangergoogle's school for political satire writing
C'mon Yankee.Total BS.
Obama had it easy right from the start.
He had both Houses and was a instant MSM darling that could do no wrong and it has stayed that way for 8 years..
You know that's not the effect of political correctness albeit the Webster definition - it's saying that trump supporters tarnish the reputation of BLM https://youtu.be/ORKvOPRxI7k
Looking Back: the Obama Legacy
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/the...acy-2017-01-05
Here's the Cliff's Notes:
Quote:
According to the Wall Street Journal, the expansion that began in June 2009 has been the weakest since World War II, with real gross domestic product growth averaging 2.1%. At 7 1/2 years and counting, it is also among the longest on record.
Quote:
In the eight years since he (Obama) was first elected, Democrats have lost more than 1,000 seats at the state and national level. Republicans now control 4,170 state legislative seats compared with 3,129 for the Democrats, an all-time low.
Republicans now hold 33 governorships and will have full control — governorship and both houses of the state legislature — in 25 states compared with five for the Democrats.
Democrats lost 12 governorships, 13 Senate seats and 69 seats in the House of Representatives during Obama’s two terms, highlighting “a devastation up and down the party across the nation,” according to The Hill.
Quote:
Eight years of leading from behind has left America’s standing in the world diminished, its moral authority compromised and its foreign policy in tatters.
The wars Obama inherited are still going on. The Taliban has made a comeback in Afghanistan. Syria is in shambles. And Secretary of State John Kerry has been so ineffective that no one even bothered to invite him to the Syrian cease-fire negotiations among Russia, Turkey and Iran.
Quote:
Obama has promoted the idea of a police force biased against blacks. He vehemently denied FBI Director James Comey’s explanation for the surge in violent crime and homicide rates last year as a result of the “Ferguson effect,” with law-enforcement officers pulling back from proactive policing following the 2014 fatal shooting of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Mo.
Chicago, Obama’s hometown, witnessed 762 homicides last year, the most in two decades, and 1,100 more shootings than in 2015. Obama’s protestations to the contrary notwithstanding, the reason is the Ferguson effect, according to the Manhattan Institute’s Heather MacDonald. What’s more, statistics show that police are three times less likely to shoot unarmed black suspects than white ones.
Quote:
Radical Islamic terrorism. Obama has spent eight years deftly avoiding using those three words to call an act what it is. He has intellectualized his position by claiming the phrase “equates Islam with terrorism,” which is counterproductive to U.S. counterterrorism efforts.
Instead, Obama prefers terms such as “workplace violence,” even if the terrorists in question pay homage to Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, leader of the Islamic State. A terrorist act provides an opportunity for the president to lecture the nation on the need for stricter gun-control laws.
I'll add race relations are now just about what they were in the 60's.
Al Sharpton 80+ visits to the White House.
Obama endorsing BLM.
Calling something what it is may not solve the problem, but avoiding it makes Obama look silly.
Taken together (read the original article), Obama's legacy is one of undelivered hope and failed change, but worse, his term has gutted our foreign policy, relegating us to insignificance - if not a joke - on the world stage. His domestic policy has set us against one another, where not even the police who are hired to protect us are safe on the streets. Murder rates are WAY up, largely the result of random shootings. Our economy is in shambles, with the worst economic growth record in over sixty years. Unemployment is up, the result of layoffs, business failures, and shipping our economy overseas where it is at the mercy of third-world nations, most of which we can't count on as allies.
Me? I'm ready for a change. Whether Trump is it remains to be seen, but meanwhile it's difficult to imagine something worse than the past eight years.
__________________
I can keep going but let's start with the economy. You are right, Obama's GDP record (and a lot of other stats) suck when looked at on the average. I mean when your GDP transition gift is THE GREAT RECESSION, your average GDP batting stats will be tarnished forever by a single point in time.
You get a different picture if you start by standing in the hole and seeing how far you have come. Like the economic gift Reagan got transition wise, Obama's was just three times bigger.
Worse than Obama's anemic GDP growth rates is who benefitted, if anyone. The rich got richer and the poor got ObamaCare "stimulus" to add previously unaffordable health insurance. Just those rural blue collar white really continued to take it on the chin. Shoulda kept those Unions....
Good luck getting buyers for that "worst President ever" lament. No doubt there's tough times, but worse ever.... not bloody likely. Here's a Presidential view of economic management that perhaps provides a more balanced view: http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/data-mine/2015/10/28/which-presidents-have-been-best-for-the-economy
Joe- selective amnesia coupled with delusional ravings. Easy? An inherited economy bleeding 700,000 jobs a month. A war in Iraq. An obstructionist House from day one. I could go on but you like your kool aid so keep chugging it. I predict you'll start choking on it soon. Trump changes positions faster than you can swallow.
Evan McMullin one of the few conservatives putting country ahead of party and is killing it lately. "It's important that @realDonaldTrump not be let off the hook for claiming he knows something about the hacks "that other people don't know." Hmm PETrump was supposed to fill us all in on November 4th - guess he's still waiting for his orders.
Remember when Obama told Mitt Romney during the 2012 debates that "The 80s called and want their Foreign Policy back". Also, the Chinese hacked the records of 4 million current and former US Federal employees from the office of Personnel Management in 2014. What actions did Obama take against China for the massive breach? That's right, nothing.
You mean nothing you're aware of. No reports of Chinese hacking since then, I believe.
I am sure he would have made everyone aware of it, that's his MO, my opinion of course.
Actually quite the opposite. It"s your boy that has the restraint and judgement of a two year old.
I don't want to hear anymore nonsense that Russia influenced the election.... Hillary threw a lot of her own dirt out there about Trump and in the end enough people didn't care because it was obvious Hillary had no real message for the American people. If Hillary wasn't careless with her email server the outcome would probably have been different. So unless Russia magically changed votes in the system to Trump, Hillary lost fair and square. Get over the fact your candidate lost and move forward. If Trump sucks after 4 years, vote him out. If he delivers, then STFU...
Amazing. Russia fixed an American presidential election and the so called "conservatives" could not care less.
"Russia fixed an American presidential election"
Zero actual facts here.
There is as much evidence that the Clinton's have a "death toll" or Obama was born in Kenya. So I guess both of those things are also true, right?
The assessment is that Russia actively tried to help Trump win, and Clinton lose, and that they succeeded in some of their hacking and releasing information efforts, etc. However, to what extent, if any, did their efforts actually influence the election? The CIA makes no assessment on that, and it is in fact unknowable.
My own judgment is that Trump would have won anyway.
Our election system has some serious deficiencies not attributable to Russia!
JR, It must be so difficult for you to navigate through life with absolutely no ability to distinguish fact from fiction. It's amazing that you haven't given all of your money to some Nigerian prince.
Trump and supporters continue to obscure Russia's ongoing attack on American democracy on his behalf. Russia's tactics were to prop up one candidate over the other but what's more critical is that Trump is going out of his way to stand up for Putin and Russia at the expense of the US. That he claims to know more than the US intelligence community. http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/313108-declassified-report-putin-ordered-election-interference-to-help
Try Russia attempted to fix our election. Think that's what most agree with.
Yes, Russia hacked us. Yes, Russia "outed" private emails from one political party only.
Did Russia tamper will votes? Not likely
Did Russia make Hillary lose? Not likely
Did Russia influence our election? Absolutely. There is no way that the Podesta email releases on top of Hillary's email scandal did not influence voters on both sides. And there is no way that Putin did not know.
"Who the hell cares?" Now that the whiners have become winners they continue to whine about anyone who speaks out against Russia's actions. For folks willing to punish other folks at the drop of a hat, suddenly Russians are hands-off best buddies with the same Putin presumption of innocence we only offer to our citizens.
Last election Obama influenced the outcome by sandbagging Benghazi reports attempting to redirect the conversation to that internet movie. And what did you do? Seven Congressional investigations on top of the State Department investigation. Congress found no one culpable and State suspended four for later reassignment. As late as November of this year, our jr. historian and conservative whiner without any party allegiance (heh, heh) said: "Hillary voters aren't all ok with....leaving 4 Americans to die in Benghazi," speaking once again for liberals as he is want to. Yeah, teach us how to forget our pain......thank you.
Meanwhile, 60 ObamaCare repeals costing taxpayers over $90 million. So tell us how not to be whiners.......
Meanwhile, on the issues, there's plenty beyond Russia to focus on. Where are the tax returns? Is this the longest audit in history? Must be some good dirt there if it takes that long? How deep is he invested for personal profit on issues like the Russian connection? I mean if the guy was willing to lose the election over what's in his taxes..... Then, let's see his arm's length divesting of the Trump empire. Hell, everything he owns has Trump plastered on it, how could he ever be arm's length. Foreign dignitary coming to see Trump: wonder where he will stay? Would he, and his huge support staff stay there if Hillary was Queen? And while we're at it, keep those kids out of the government. Arm's length works both ways. Remember the stink when Hillary, who was highly qualified, worked in Bill's administration. Oh, the horror of it all. Remember? Now we get at least two kids angling for Trump jobs supposedly leaving all that business behind them. Remember the horror of first lady Hillary working heath care?
With Trump we get a whole family of help and no financial arm's length to stop Trump from helping the family.
Ok so what was hacked. That's like me saying I saw a sasquatch with no video or any real evidence. So because Obama says we were hacked we're supposed to believe it? What did Putin give to Trump supporters to make their decision? The answer is nothing.
Gadfly, you delicate snowflake, It must be so difficult for you to navigate through life with the impression that fiction IS fact. My points stand. No proof Russia "fixed" the election... no more proof than Obama was born in Kenya or the Clintons have a death toll. How does it feel to believe in conspiracy theories? (something you and your "buddies" have accused me and others of routinely)
Better get yourself a tinfoil hat so you'll be properly attired for the next 4-8 years....
Lol.... you think that whacko alt-right "news" websites and viral Facebook posts shared by your crazy uncle carry equal wait to consensus findings of the entire US intelligence community. And that is why you'll never really understand what's going on in this world.
What there is agreement amongst the intelligence leaders and community that Russia actively played a role in undermining an election and one particular candidate - whether that candidate was a Republican, Democrat or 3rd party should not matter. What matters is that this was a coordinated attack on our Democracy, what matters is what we do now and going forward. What really matters is that Trump is Russia's staunchest supporter and going out of his way to undermine US intelligence and minimize their information and efforts.
SD plenty of damaging stuff was released about Trump to give the people a fair view of both candidates. Everyone already knew the emails were an issue before they were even released. If Trump has issues with his tax returns, then the government can audit him.
"Ok so what was hacked." Really? Live under a rock?
"That's like me saying I saw a sasquatch with no video or any real evidence." You have got to be kidding, right? No evidence? No recommendation from intelligence groups here and abroad.
"So because Obama says we were hacked we're supposed to believe it?" Yes, it's only Obama and Obama-zombies saying it. No conservatives, no intelligence, no foreign country leadership, nah --- just a bunch of Obama acolytes.
"What did Putin give to Trump supporters to make their decision? The answer is nothing." Really. So the Podesta emails had no galvanizing or snowball effect on top of Hillary's email scandals and general untrustworthiness. No wonder "grab some pussy" man does not bother you. You just ignore anything outside your paradigm.
"President-elect Donald Trump rang in the new year together with Joseph "Joey No Socks" Cinque — a convicted felon with ties to notorious Gambino crime family boss John Gotti, a recently released video has revealed."
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/trump-appears-mobster-affiliated-felon-new-year-bash-article-1.2932315
Party on Wayne.....
Sorry Yankeefan, he is not my boy, not a Trump supporter, did not vote for him. He is a buffoon, I jut happen to despise the Clinton's and most politicians in general.
Gadfly, you be sure and let us know when this PROOF you HOPE exists of "Russia fixing the election" surfaces, ok? We'll wait.....
Did you know that Elvis is still alive? And the moon landing was faked?
In the words of Joe Biden, "It is over." Why all of you are whining the president is having a big good bye party for himself. Pretty much sums up the last 8 years.
Karma will be coming to bite a bunch of you on your arses...................just waiting patiently ---
So now we are supposed to be outraged by an unproven allegation that the Russian Government hacked John Podesta, Sid Blumenthal and Hillary Clinton. (who set up and knowingly used a non-secure, private server to conduct a substantial amount of official business.) and when we're not you wish "karmic reprocussions" upon us.
This allegation is as "unproven" as Bin Laden's location and many other tips that the intelligence community acts on every day. Most people should be interested, invested and demand that the PE take this seriously instead of diminishing the community who at the end of the day is working to keep Americans safe. If you want to be outraged too that's fine.
Yankeefan - I don't think it's karma but rather precedent. To his supporters and party, it doesn't matter that he's corrupt because he's their guy, pay for play doesn't matter, divesting personal businesses with conflicts of interest not important, taxes no longer a requirement, employing an entire shadow network of fake news - not a problem, political involvement by a hostile country - check, stock price manipulation - check.
Remember the NYT published illegally obtained old Trump tax records and the pu**y tape was also surreputously obtained but Trump accepted the disclosure and addressed what had been revealed. The Dems absolutely cannot accept the fact that a non-career politician defeated Hillary due to her own corruption. Will you be less embarrassed if we give you all an honorable mention trophy?
What do Donald Trump's past taxes have to do with his policies and visions for the future of America? he filed the required disclosures.
http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/TrumpFinancialDisclosure20150722.pdf
"Fake News" is the new "Racist". The liberals realized that calling people "racists" is no longer an "I win" button, so they invented the term "fake news" as an alternative. When Trump won, conservatives immediately started started telling Dems they were fooled by the MSM. Of course the MSM had to flip the story, and retake control of the narrative, and it must be true - you have facebook, Twitter, and Reddit on board to give to give your claims the appearance of validity. LOL
So let me see if I can grasp your point. Hillary Clinton was telling the truth and she only deleted emails pertaining to yoga lessons and Chelsea Clinton's wedding and there was no breach..
Oh wait now the breach made her lose the election? Not the fact that she lied to the FBI. violated the Federal Records Act, destroyed government documents that she had an obligation to preserve., violated the Espionage Act and removed classified information from a secure environment, making it available for foreign hackers to steal... Keep going down the election tampering road - we may see her in prison yet kids.
4 cat - Think Progress, is the media wing of the leftists Center for American Progress - FAKE NEWS
they literally get their info from parody sites.
http://www.rawstory.com/2014/07/crazy-racist-bachmann-story-so-believable-liberal-websites-fall-for-parody/
"Our intelligence agencies have already publicly shared evidence about the nature of these hacks even before this report, and before last week:
Complete DNI report: https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/ICA_2017_01.pdf
Here is what FBI & DHS shared last week: https://www.scribd.com/document/335307386/JAR-16-20296#download
And here is what was shared previously by Crowdstrike, FBI, DHS, Microsoft and SecureWorks:
- FANCY BEAR and COZY BEAR, two government-sponsored Russian hacking groups, on the DNC servers, discovered by multiple parties, including Crowdstrike and the FBI.
- Microsoft, whose OneDrive service was used to ferry the stolen information back to Russia, confirmed Russian involvement on both sides of the transfer based on logs.
- Matt Tait discovered user metadata revealing that Guccifer 2.0, who claims to be Romanian, was communicating exclusively in Russian and incapable of using Romanian. User metadata contained reference to an alias related to the KGB and emails demonstrated direct connections with the Russian government.
- The machine controlling the malware used to break into the DNC is owned by the Russian government and was used previously to hack Germany’s parliament.
- SecureWorks, a cybersecurity firm, gained access to the Bitly-based automated system FANCY BEAR was using to coordinate its attacks and tracked its efforts against the DNC from that route as well.
Acknowledging the glaringly obvious facts and making some kind of effort to counter future attacks, condemning Russia’s actions, would make Trump look good, not bad. It looks a hell of a lot worse to keep ignoring it. I don’t get the weird cognitive dissonance among Trump supporters (and Trump himself) who seem to want to pretend this never happened. Hiding his head in the sand and attacking our own intelligence officers doesn’t help.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/07/politics/michael-hayden-russian-intel-report-cnntv/
"Michael Hayden, a former head of the CIA and National Security Agency, said Saturday that the newly-released intelligence report describing Russia's efforts to undermine the US election was "a brick short of a load."
and that's from the Clinton News Network - the intelligence experts seem to think it's not true. Any more glaringly obvious facts?
The DNC never mentioned alleged Russian hacking until Assange announced upcoming HRC-related emails.
An October Esquire profile of CrowdStrike cofounder, Dmitri Alperovitch (a Russian expat btw), explains that he talked to WaPo in June at the behest of the DNC who wanted to use Russian hacking story to hurt Donald Trump:
http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a49902/the-russian-emigre-leading-the-fight-to-protect-america/
Trump accused the Democrats of being behind 'Guccifer 2.0' the very day the supposed hacker materialized!
http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/283693-trump-accuses-dnc-of-lying-about-hack-leaking-oppo
Assange has hinted that both 'Guccifer 2.0' and DCLeaks are false flag operations to blame the Russians:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6qlc3lStM4&t=18m (18 minute mark)
The DNC and CrowdStrike should be investigated.
RT changed the outcome of the election!
I mean, it's not like every US main stream news outlet was biased toward one of the candidates. Nah, that couldn't be because news outlets only report the news and never try to influence outcomes, right?
Here's a simple test, one where I think a majority would come up with the same result:
Make two columns. On the left list the candidates. On the right list all the MSM networks. Now draw a line from each network to the candidate they presented in the best light.
Without actually writing them down, I'm thinking a 10-1 ratio. And I guarantee everyone here already knows who got the 10 side lol.
With that obvious conclusion made, in what possible context would RT be labeled as influencing the election? By trying to make the ratio 10-2 instead??? What about Fox News? They must be directed by Russia too!
That report is more of the same- "Trust us, we're from the government". Again, if they want to be taken seriously just SHOW THE DATA!
Meanwhile members of Congress and even Trump's advisors, point out that the report and information is credible. It’s only trusted, reasoned sources like the Putin, Assange and Trump himself who are putting up a spurious fight.
So Skippy thinks Assange is credible. No motive for an alleged rapist seeking asylum from some country, any country, to lie.
Trump thinks the intelligence community, who unanimously confirm Putin and his minions directed the hacks, completely lacks credibility.JR and JIT as well as many others here miss the point. Whether or not the election was impacted by the hacking or not, there was clearly an attempt by a foreign government to try. That should be considered an act of war by every American. But instead of outrage, we get their stale old sixth grade responsesl..."suck it up, snowflake, you lost". Meanwhile, the House votes, before anything else, to do away with ethics oversight. No outrage, crickets. Oh, and now it's the taxpayers, not Mexico, that will build that wall. More crickets. You've rolled over and assumed the position with smiles on your faces. A cabinet stocked with unqualified billionaires. Crickets. I'm beginning to believe maybe we SHOULD have an IQ Test qualification to vote.
"Whether or not the election was impacted by the hacking or not, there was clearly an attempt by a foreign government to try. That should be considered an act of war by every American. "
Would that be the same Americans who look the other way when we do it, or only those who don't want to know we do it?
Look, I think this is nothing more than business as usual being called out due to sore losers not getting what they wanted. Period.
Should we as a country address foreign hacking? Of course! Duh. But "why now?"is the right question, and those crying about it are doing it for purely political reasons. Personally I think they need time to reflect...
see now your changing the topic - I said Assange was talking about more emails being released and it seems to coincide with the complaints of election tampering - I also said Assange alludes to a false flag attack being blamed on the Russians - there is not even an accusation so there is nothing to be credible about. I certainly have not given you any responses as you have indicated above. And if someone can prove it was a foreign actor I am sure that it will be responded to - however - that has not happened yet.
Who cares who hacked the emails of Podesta? It was the content and correspondence of the emails that was the most damaging for the Dems. It wasn't Russia's fault that the DNC rigged the primary for Clinton, was it?
since you want to talk about ethics oversight.. Do you know how many people that ethics office found guilty in 2016? Zero, That's why constitutional lawyers should be in charge of congressional ethics, not politicians, of any party.
https://oce.house.gov/about/board-staff/
Note - They are all litigators and are non partisan.
The fact is that the power to investigate is being taken away from nonpartisan professionals and given to partisan politicians. This is not a good thing. It doesn't give the House Ethics Committee any more power than it had, it only is removing an additional safeguard in the Office of Congressional Ethics. The OCE investigated members of Congress and in most cases they publicly released recommendations. Now they can be told by the House Ethics Committee not to conduct an investigation if they get a solid lead or they can have the findings of their investigations swept under the rug - I agree - flies in the face of draining the swamp.
speaking of cabinet appointments and leaks - one month before the Presidential election of 2008, the Wall Street giant Citibank submitted to the Obama campaign a list of its preferred candidates for cabinet positions. This list corresponds almost exactly to the eventual composition of Barack Obama’s cabinet.
https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/8190
at least Trump is picking his own - I am all for IQ tests to vote - it will eliminate the 3 million fraudulent democrat votes in 2020 - do you have to show ID to take the test?
how about the the 60k felons that voted in VA for HRC - do they have to pass the test too?
Why not now? Because you perceive the timing is politically motivated? Ridiculous. Now because it must be stopped regardless of who it may or may not have benefitted.
Is the US using hacking to alter elections? Possibly to destroy Iranian centrifuges, or was that Israel? I hardly believe we do it in countries that have democratic elections. It's clear the US needs to focus in a major way on cyber security, regardless of the either naive or criminal downplaying by PEOTUS.
"Why not now? Because you perceive the timing is politically motivated? Ridiculous."
why not before? this was known before the election - the only thing that changed is the outcome.
I am all about making cybersecurity a priority, albeit for selfish reasons (gainful employment) as well.
the US is the undoubtedly the most prolific meddler in foreign elections
"LEVIN: Well, for my dataset, the United States is the most common user of this technique. Russia or the Soviet Union since 1945 has used it half as much. My estimate has been 36 cases between 1946 to 2000. We know also that the Chinese have used this technique and the Venezuelans when the late Hugo Chavez was still in power in Venezuela and other countries."
http://www.npr.org/2016/12/22/506625913/database-tracks-history-of-u-s-meddling-in-foreign-elections
would you not agree that if the US should have solid evidence before we confront another superpower?
Thank you jd2 for your unbiased account on what is actually known..rather than resort to speculation.
"Why not now?"
Now is fine. Just extremely interesting, the timing of action that is. No chance all the whining and crying had any influence whatsoever, right? The phrase "squeaky wheel" is quite appropriate here.
"Is the US using hacking to alter elections? "
Of course we have "hacked" elections, but through money and guns and not necessarily computers. Well, we may have used computers but it hasn't been reported anywhere that I'm aware of.
"I hardly believe we do it in countries that have democratic elections."
Oh sorry, I see that you already acknowledged that the act of influencing elections is ok. Just not when it's your candidate on the losing end. Got it!
"It's clear the US needs to focus in a major way on cyber security"
Of course, and our government has been working many years toward just that - see Mr Snowdens wonderful revelations on the subject. But according to you and others they couldn't possibly have been. Why? Because in your mind the release of TRUTHFUL AND ACCURATE information is why your candidate lost. Suck it up and get on with life already and stop listening to your idiot crybaby politicians who simply lost.
"regardless of the either naive or criminal downplaying by PEOTUS".
I don't like Trump one bit, but when he says you have to be an idiot to threaten the use of force against Russia because you don't like the outcome of the recent election then I have to agree.
I agree positive, and for those who don't agree I'll ask them to hop on over to dictionary.com and look up the word "assess".
Russia is not being punished because of the outcome of the election. It's because of what they did.
The US has tried to meddle/influence Israeli elections from both sides over the years.
http://freebeacon.com/issues/u-s-embassy-met-with-group-trying-to-influence-israeli-elections/
http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/13/politics/israel-elections-benjamin-netanyahu-obama/index.html
"Russia is not being punished because of the outcome of the election. It's because of what they did."
If it weren't for all the frenzy (also on dictionary.com) post election I'd agree with you.
"So what. If we meddle in any country's affairs then they are free to punish us"
Being dupliciuous doesn't bother you RAS? It bothers some people, myself included. Now that you mention it though, that could very well be the primary reason for people to constantly argue and bicker: Do as I say, not as I do, right? One standard for you, one for me. Lol, that sounds like a good reason to choose to be a Republicrat!
http://www.hackettstownlife.com/forum/769688#t775725
No comment about my little test? Are the results too obvious? ;-)
Russia didn't write those emails and they certainly didn't prevent HRC from going to Wisconsin - Democrats lost 10 Gubernatorial seats (28 to 18) over 1,000 Statehouse seats control of the House and the Senate - so yeah RAS lets start WW 3 because your candidate lost - again nobody cared about this until after the election
oh BTW we interfered in Israels election.
http://www.cnsnews.com/blog/michael-w-chapman/state-dept-350k-group-built-campaign-structure-used-against-election-israels
and clinton wanted to rig elections in Palestine.
http://observer.com/2016/10/2006-audio-emerges-of-hillary-clinton-proposing-rigging-palestine-election/
so it's cool when a democratic controlled america does it.. gotcha.
how about the fact that HRC tampered with the election? everything from conspiring with the DNC to steal the primaries to receiving debate questions early.. that is all cool too right?
Honestly think about why you are upset and feel this way - and honestly it's not your fault - you are succumbing to the propaganda that passes for news these days.
I guess what I'm saying is yes, we all "know" every country meddles in others affairs ostensibly to further or protect their own interests. But there's a difference between "knowing" and proof. And every country points the finger from their "higher" ground ( because after all we don't behave like that only others do). Are we duplicitous? Yes. Do I mind, yes. But will we survive as a sovereign nation if we don't give as good as we get ? Hell no. I used to think we were the good guys- I think we're better than the rest but have no illusion that we're angels.
I think we have enough proof to punish. We certainly shouldn't REWARD Putin with "warmer" relations. Unless it's in OUR best interests (not Dump's). Then go ahead cozy up.
"But there's a difference between "knowing" and proof."
That is exactly right. And there's no proof Russia had any influence on the outcome of the election, so you guys should just drop it until there is... THEN, we can talk.
And if we wanted to kick out all the ambassadors from countries who have "done stuff" to us, we would have to exile the entire U.N. (which would be absolutely fine with about half the country.) Singling out the Russians after losing the election just shows Obama (and all the left) as the sore loser he is, throwing a temper tantrum... because it's not POSSIBLE the democrats LOSE an election...
Of course there's no proof of *influencing* the results of the election. But there is proof they hacked. End of story.
Your last statement is utterly ridiculous. Take your blinders off and look back a couple elections ago.
The same intelligence community that said Iraq had WMDs!
As of late, what I find interesting is that Trump's appointments really vary in their personal views. This is refreshing, but could also lead to a lot of fighting among themselves...
RAS, I can agree with s lot in your last post, and once again I think the majority of us are a lot closer in thought than some may thinking. This silly bickering would go away if only our government weren't so secretive.
RAS you mentioned above about not meddling in a "democratic" process, but in order to be democratic everything must be out in the open. That has NOT happened in this case, and the more the government tries to convince us that they are "right" without providing anything of substance the more they look like idiots. Anyone can "assess" based on the information available. Problem here is the government not giving us information, other that "trust us". My personal opinion is that's one reason Trump got elected: Too much "trust us" propaganda from our own government and nowhere near enough supporting facts. Why? Because the things that are done in the name of "national security" would probably cause us to question our collective morality.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence No one in the intelligence community is seriously suggesting Russia hacked the election. They are claiming that they breached the DNC and Podesta and leaked the emails. The US electorate was well aware that the leaks may have come as a result of foreign interference, since October but no one cared. The DNC emails published by Wikileaks were obtained by a leak (a DNC staffer who had legal access to the documents) not a hack. Thus has been explained by Assange and by Craig Murray, the intermediate who transferred the documents between the source and Wikileaks. The Podesta emails were likely obtained through a phishing scam,
It must be asked if it really matters how one arrives at the truth. “What if the grapes really are sour?” circumstantial ad hominem. The truth is not decided by the number of liberals subscribing to it.
"Of course there's no proof of *influencing* the results of the election"
THAT is the "end of story" (regarding the election). Thank you.
As for "hacking", my post stands: if we wanted to kick out the ambassadors from every country that has hacked the US, it would be a long list... starting with CHINA. I got no problem getting the ENTIRE U.N. out of the US, and as I said, about half the country wouldn't have a problem with it either.
I agree JIT. But as you might imagine there's a fine line between the public' s right to know and not tipping our hand. I was surprised that they let go of the fact they traced the hacks back to Cyrillic keyboards, but I suppose anyone more sophisticated than me would recognize it as a possible point of evidence.
""Of course there's no proof of *influencing* the results of the election"
THAT is the "end of story" (regarding the election). Thank you."
When it comes to Russia, we all know how important it is now to treat them as innocent until proven guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt. jr. is a huge supporter of that.
Trump has doubt as to the veracity of what he is being told by his intelligence community. He has known intelligence to be wrong before, look at what his intelligence team initially said about the future of Atlantic City. So if they got Atlantic City wrong, Trump has great doubt that they are right about Russia today. Someday he may actually look at the facts, but for now, let's just assume innocence. No need to hurry, it's just national defense.
The year is 2006. Georgia votes to integrate into the UN; Russia slaps em with sanctions and deportations.
2007: Russia plants their flag and claims sovereignty over the North Pole.
Later that year Putin pulls from the 1990 arms treaty laying the groundwork to deploy troops and heavy equipment across Europe.
2008: Russia begins war games off the US coast. Russia shoots down drone over Georgia, Russia supports anti-West separatists, skirmishes break out by summer Russia is rolling the tanks into Georgia.
2009: Russia stops piping gas to Ukraine. Later that year, Russia and US update 1991 nuclear non-proliferation Start Agreement --- A New Start.
2011 -- Syrian Civil War Starts. Russia Vetos UN Syrian Resolution.
2013 -- To avoid US intervention, Russia proposes stockpiling Syrian chemical weapons. They never complete the job.
2014 -- Russia invades Ukraine
2015 -- Russia enters Syrian war, bombs anti-Asad rebels claiming they are hitting ISIS.
Here, from your very own conservative Heritage Organization is the plan which foreshadows the hacking incident: http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2016/09/understanding-russias-concept-for-total-war-in-europe
So you continue to believe innocent until proven guilty beyond any shadow of a doubt. Don't believe until you get 100% transparency of everything your spies know and did. Believe Putin and Assange over your own intelligence community. Or no election fraud, therefore hacking not an issue.
Of course, you didn't play the game by those rules for Hillary on Benghazi, the Foundation or the Email Scandal. In that case, she was guilty even after being proven innocent ---- 8 times in regards to Benghazi alone. Of course you had no problem using Hillary's private emails for your political gain. And those you believed beyond a shadow of a doubt never imaging that perhaps edits had taken place. After all, it's the Russians and unless the Americans prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that those hacked, private emails, are not authentic ---- then they must be true!
Face it. The only reason this has even a blip on the twitter screen is because The Donald thinks it might mar his largest landslide victory in US history.
"Have you seen the saucers?"
RAS, agree again and I've already said that I think their conclusion is likely correct. Personally I don't happen to like being told "just trust us" when history has plenty examples of why we should question our leaders.
SD- all good points. And RIGHT BACK AT YOU: this has been my point ALL ALONG:
The left is showing it's extreme hypocrisy. Russia hacked and affected the election, "we know" they did, proof or no. But regardless of what evidence was piled on to Hillary, Benghazi, and emails, all THAT stuff was a wild goose chase of lies and conspiracies. It works both ways. You can't have your cake and eat it to.
JIT, exactly, we agree. I am questioning our soon to be "Leader".
As for the hacking, I never said it affected the outcome, I've been consistent in my posts...the fact that an enemy of America did in fact attempt to influence our election is enough to warrant sanctions. Overt and covert. Our soon to be leader seems to be on the wrong side of this one. Again.
Except for those damn facts that you are so willing to overlook.
Benghazi ----- 7, count em, 7 Congressional Investigations and Hearings. Lots of Reports. One State Department investigation. Report. OK, you don't believe. Got it.
Email Scandal ---- Cleared twice by the FBI. OK, you don't believe. Got it.
Foundation --- Multiple FBI investigations, no smoking gun.
Basically in all cases, authorities cleared Hillary. You did not.
Now in the Russian hack case, the authorities claim Russia is guilty. You say not proven.
So actually whenever the government says something, you disagree, basically because they have been wrong before. But whatever Trump says is freakin-a-skippy with you even though he is a liar, 24x7.
Mexico will pay for the wall
We will repeal all of ObamaCare
Deport 11 million illegals
Muslims cheering from the rooftops
Greatest Landslide in Political History
Oh heck, here's 500 of the most recent..... http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/11/05/toronto_star_compiles_list_of_almost_500_trump_lies_during_campaign.html
Dude - how can you say the email breach did not occur than say It sabotaged the election in the same post
SD- and you be sure and let us know where the FACTS come out about Russia's hacking the election... same ol' SD, pretending to see both sides, but only ever seeing one....
"how can you say the email breach did not occur than say It sabotaged the election in the same post"
Wait... we weren't supposed to vote based on yoga schedules and baby pictures? Ah, crap.
"Dude - how can you say the email breach did not occur than say It sabotaged the election in the same post." Wow. Did I say it SABOTAGED the election? Cool.
Duuuude..... Maybe there were two email scandals. One with a breach and one with a private server, unbreached.
Duuude. You see when Hillary and email are together --- it's guilty until proven innocent. When Putin and email an together ---- it's innocent until proven guilty.
That's because you trust Putin.
"But as you might imagine there's a fine line between the public' s right to know and not tipping our hand"
Of course, but would you also agree that there's a fine line between blind faith in our government "assessments" and the truth, especially when that faith (not that long ago) resulted in the invasion of a sovereign country under false pretenses and resulted in the longest and costliest period of war that our country has ever known and set the Middle East tumbling like a set of dominos, creating a refugee crisis the EU has never experienced? That's the kind of thing that sticks with people, wouldn't you agree, and the only way to regain that trust is to be forthcoming and truthful.
So yeah, the vibe I'm getting today is one of obfuscation, with enough partial truths thrown in to make an "assessment" believable but still giving the nagging feeling that there's more to this whole thing. And the punctuation mark for me is the war-mongering duo of McCain and Graham- they are on the war path again (or is it "still" lol). When those two are beating the drums then I KNOW we should question everything!
Do we let up on North Korea since, after all, are we really sure those are nukes and missiles being tested. I mean nothing's been blown up.
What do we really know about what's going on in Syria? I mean those videos might be fake.
And does ISIS even exist. I mean have you ever met one?
Bengazi, lets not forget the lies told to the American public about it being the result of a film. The lies went on for quite some time with Obama addressing the UN General Assembly two weeks after it happened repeating the same lie. JIT is right, we all should be able to question what we are being told by the government regardless of what party we align with.
SD you mean one wasn't a Leak and one was phishing with a remote access Trojan I believe
Iraq having WMDs was once considered a fact by the intelligence community. How'd that turn out? Hillary lost because she wasn't a good candidate and many people were tired of the Clinton's. Hillary did plenty of her own smearing of Trump. Her emails being released by WikiLeaks made everything fair game. It doesn't really matter where they came from. It just proves she used an unsecure server for foreign nations to hack and shows her poor judgement.
happiest, would you expect anything different from a room full of democratic pat-themselves-on-their backs individuals. They should all donate their entire bankroll and support the world. As far as the pedestal, yep they all put themselves up on one, hence the number of award shows there are.
"hence the number of award shows there are."
... and if people aren't winning enough awards, they just create more obscure categories to "compete" in.
So tell me this, if he wasn't making fun of the disabled reporter then what was he doing?
What's worse... making fun of a disabled reporter or sending a couple thousand soldiers to their deaths based on BS intel... I think people need to wake up to reality. The Clintons, Obamas, and Bushes put us in this mess.
Too bad her heart didn't break for the disabled man who was tortured for hours last week by the 4 African Americans. Guess that didn't fit her agenda.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_E-EdGul8nI
or
http://www.wnd.com/2016/05/hillary-horror-get-those-f-ing-retards-out-of-here/
KELLYANNE CONWAY: I'm glad Meryl Streep has such a passion for the disabled because I didn't hear her weigh in or I didn't even hear her use her platform last night, Ainsley, to give the shoutout to the mentally challenged boy who last week was tortured live on Facebook for half an hour, by four young African-American adults who were screaming racial and anti-Trump expletives and forcing him to put his head in toilet water
"Too bad her heart didn't break for the disabled man who was tortured for hours last week by the 4 African Americans. Guess that didn't fit her agenda."
EXACTLY. Hollywood can eff off- "famous" doesn't mean "wiser" or even "more aware", but it does apparently mean "more arrogant and self-important."
Man, I am so glad the conservative right has abandoned being politically correct.
Metsman: So when your wife gets raped, do you blame her for not carrying a gun to defend against her stupidity?
"So tell me this, if he wasn't making fun of the disabled reporter then what was he doing?" He was showing the world how to act Presidentially politically incorrect. Now we can all feel free to denigrate anyone just for being different. So cool.
"What's worse... making fun of a disabled reporter or sending a couple thousand soldiers to their deaths based on BS intel... I think people need to wake up to reality. The Clintons, Obamas, and Bushes put us in this mess." Yes, it was Hillary who made Duckhead into a boorish bully who vents his silver-spooned spleen with vicious vulgar abandon for perceived quantum transgressions on his ego. Ah....so that's what we need to make it all OK. Something worse......
"Too bad her heart didn't break for the disabled man who was tortured for hours last week by the 4 African Americans. Guess that didn't fit her agenda." See, there's something worse out there and now Trumpian adventures in being an a-hole just do not matter anymore.....
Apparently, to some, if you don't give a full reckoning of every possible offense in the universe, how the hell can you dare to complain about something the President Elect did. That's even more offensive. Try this next time Meryl: "Donald Trump's debasing of a disabled man just because Mr. Duckface has more power, money, and position really sucks. As do all the other evils in the universe." There. Now you are politically correct for the Trumpian World.
God forbid they hold one event they don't turn into a platform for their personal agenda . I love movies and TV , but seriously, I can never honestly watch Ben Affleck or George Clooney again without thinking about their nonstop, shameless attempts to push their leftist rhetoric.
"too bad her heart didn't break for the disabled man who was tortured for hours last week by the 4 African Americans. Guess that didn't fit her agenda." ----- Ollie
Were you really unable to comprehend her message, Ollie?
"disrespect invites disrespect, violence incites violence. And when the powerful use their position to bully others, we all lose." ---- Meryl Streep
So when Hillary called Trump supporters "deplorables", that didn't count as disrespect? She insulted millions of people.
metsman:
It was Trump's fault.
"disrespect invites disrespect, violence incites violence. And when the powerful use their position to bully others, we all lose." --- M.S.
Trump brings out the worst in people.
I can't imagine how people will behave once he is in control.
And to use your logic, making fun of the disabled, labeling all immigrants as rapists and criminals, denigrating women and being a self described sexual predator is sooo much worse than that. But that's okay because that doesn't fit into your agenda.
Metsman -- are you for real? You declare RAS lost credibility .....
Let me remind you that .....
*You*, Metsman, wrote:
"Hillary lost because she wasn't a good candidate."
Hillary Clinton's list of accomplishments is extraordinary.
It is You, Metsman, that have lost all credibility.
She didn't say Trump supporters were "deplorable." You just lost.....
And she walked the comments back, apologized, at least to the point of regretting her comments.
Trump not so big a man as Hillary.
How is Meryl Streep stating her beliefs any different from every person pontificating on this thread? Just as the First Amendment protects you, it protects her. Her celebrity doesn't eliminate her right of free expression. Trump lovers don't whine when Trump's A- listers criticize Dems. A- listers like Ted Nugent and Scott Baio, and umm well, I'm sure there are others.
Meryl Streep, she of the moral high ground.
How soon we forget:
In 2003, she gave convicted child molester Roman Polanski a standing ovation after he was awarded an Oscar at the Academy Awards. She saluted a child molester – a deviant who had sex with a 13-year-old girl after drugging her.
How special.
Something Trump has been accused of. You
know, Mr. Grab em by the pu**y high ground. Streep has every right to voice her opinion. You don't like it, don't listen.
"And she walked the comments back, apologized, at least to the point of regretting her comments."
She regretted saying that "half" of Trump supporters were deplorable. She didn't regret the overall gist of the comment. Such an improvement... only insulting something less than 31 million people.
"Just as the First Amendment protects you, it protects her."
Nobody here even remotely suggested that she be jailed for her comments, so this isn't a 1st Amendment issue. The 1st Amendment offers no protection over people calling someone a buffoon for what they do have the right to say. All the comments above do say is that her celebrity (as an actress) doesn't make her political opinion any more valid.
In fact all the Hollywood Libs give the pedophile a big ovation.
http://truthfeed.com/flashback-meryl-streep-gave-rapist-roman-polanski-a-standing-ovation-in-2003-oscars/45883/
"If Hillary was a good candidate, she would have beaten Trump." ----- Metsman
hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Gee ----- don't you have some serious issues with Obama, Metsman ????
According to your **logic** Obama was the best candidate since he won!!!
LOL
I didn't vote for Trump but do prefer even him over the untrustworthy,corrupt,scandal after scandal HC.
Ok, Bill Clinton and Trump sexual predator statuses.
The guy Hillary stayed married to after being embarrassed by him time after time.
Especially with the BJ on the Oval Office...in the Oval Office and gets caught!
well,she had to so they both could keep collection cash and her holding on to bill's coattails for political offices but not the last one...thank God!
Funny thing is I was a big fan of Bill as President.
speaking of sexual predators..
Roman Polanski drugged, raped and sodomized a 13 year old girl and Streep gave him a standing ovation.
and go...
Ill start "you gotta understand: Meryl was applauding the visionary artist Polanski, not the convicted pedophile Polanski. A big difference. One has nothing to do with the other."
shes an actress - with the right to express her opinion - but it is not what she is paid to do and it turns many people off - stick to entertaining not pontificating.
"…Cuomo called out Trump for mocking a disabled New York Times reporter during a 2015 rally. But Conway insisted that’s not what he was doing. “That is not what he did and he has said that 1,000 times,” she said Monday morning. “Why can’t you give him the benefit of the doubt?”
Cuomo shot back, “He can say it a million times but look at the video… he’s making a disgusting gesture on video.”
“Why is everything taken at face value?” she asked. “You can’t give him the benefit of the doubt on this and he’s telling you what was in his heart, you always want to go with what’s come out of his mouth rather than look at what’s in his heart.”"......................swell.............he can lie if there's something else in his heart..........smh
"Hillary Clinton's list of accomplishments is extraordinary."
Apparently not, or, at least, apparently half the country disagrees with you, and/or does not view her "experience" as "accomplishments"... or perhaps more accurately, as NEGATIVE accomplishments.
No, there will be no "madame president" for you this time around, HG, and I predict NEVER for Hillary. She's damaged goods.
Yankeefan ---
Yes, they voted for Trump, the sexual predator.
He even brags about it.
One of a long list of vices.
He even talks about his daughter inappropriately. Poor Ivanka must be so humiliated.
She pulls away from him when he kisses her -- and how about his hand going
for her butt.
Disgraceful.
Trump brings out the worst in people. And who would that be exactly? The Trump haters, the anti Trump crowd? Trumps supporters? The Meryl Streep's of this country. Four African American's attacking a helpless man with disabilities. Who exactly are they?
It cracks me up when people say they would rather have the most disgusting, deplorable douchebag for potus rather than a crook- hahahahahaha! THEY ARE ALL CROOKS! But I'll go with the king of douchebags AND a crook. Bwahahaha!
"Trump brings out the worst in people"
Well he's certainly bringing out the worst in all the liberal progressive democrats!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
But I suspect ANY Republican president would have. With the exception (maybe) of Rubio. If any other republican had won, you'd still be screaming bloody murder.
http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/01/09/congress-reintroduces-kates-law-illegal-immigration-legislation
looks like some of your constituents in sanctuary cites may be in trouble.
+1 Kate's Law. Always was a good idea. I hope it passes. Anyone who thinks it's a bad idea is...... deplorable.
Mark, or any less valid. Skippy, I'm pretty sure Meryl doesn't need your advice. She seems to be doing just fine without. Meanwhile PEOTUS takes to twitter to lash out. Looks to me like he watched the Globes and got his poor feelings hurt. Aww.
auntiel --
The answer is ANYONE.
Frightening, isn't it.
So far I have seen no violence from anti-Trump people.
But Trumps words filter into the minds of prejudice people.
Just today, for instance, in Clark HS was the Black Puppet whose neck was hanging by a string.
It will go on.
Well the fact that Streep stupidly applauded Polanski does not make Trump's comments OK or her comments on Trump wrong. Perhaps she has grown since 2003. Trump, on the other hand, is still grabbing women all the way out to 2013. That we know of.
Hillary did not exactly say what you remembered Joe, actually she said: "“Last night I was ‘grossly generalistic,’ and that's never a good idea. I regret saying ‘half’ — that was wrong," as in she was wrong to generalize and to say half of them.
Then she added: ""But let's be clear," she wrote, going on to rattle off a list of Trump's offenses. "[W]hat's really ‘deplorable’ is that Donald Trump hired a major advocate for the so-called ‘alt-right’ movement to run his campaign and that David Duke and other white supremacists see him as a champion of their values. It's deplorable that Trump has built his campaign largely on prejudice and paranoia and given a national platform to hateful views and voices, including by retweeting fringe bigots with a few dozen followers and spreading their message to 11 million people."
"I won't stop calling out bigotry and racist rhetoric in this campaign," she went on, but she offered an olive branch of sorts to downscale Trump voters. "I also meant what I said last night about empathy, and the very real challenges we face as a country where so many people have been left out and left behind. As I said, many of Trump's supporters are hard-working Americans who just don’t feel like the economy or our political system are working for them. I'm determined to bring our country together and make our economy work for everyone, not just those at the top." "But let's be clear," she wrote, going on to rattle off a list of Trump's offenses. "[W]hat's really ‘deplorable’ is that Donald Trump hired a major advocate for the so-called ‘alt-right’ movement to run his campaign and that David Duke and other white supremacists see him as a champion of their values. It's deplorable that Trump has built his campaign largely on prejudice and paranoia and given a national platform to hateful views and voices, including by retweeting fringe bigots with a few dozen followers and spreading their message to 11 million people."
The rest is history. Donald won on a basket of lies, showing disdain for many, empathy to few, and immediately hired a basket of uber rich, status quo business wanks to rule the nation for the benefit of the top.
Trump cabinet is the richest, most financially entangled, whitest group of our American aristocracy ---- $14B and counting. That's like the GDP of Jamaica.
G. Bush's cabinet --- $250 million. Obama's 2.0 billion.
We got Exxon, Amway, Ameritrade, Goldman Sachs, Carl's Jr.'s/Hardee's fast food, Breitbart News, and counting. Draining the swamp by filling the cesspool.
Ohhhh, that Streep! I see now, it's the one who makes her living pretending-the more fake she is, the more believable, then the more kudos, awards and money she gets. Yes, definitely someone worth listening to, after all her fame and wealth is directly correlated with how well she can convince an audience that what's fake is actually real! ;-)
Btw, this is in no way a comment on her views, just a statement of how idiotic it is to look to an expert manipulator to validate ones views. No thanks, I'll pass lol
"So far I have seen no violence from anti-Trump people."
young white male kidnapped, beaten, tortured, forced to drink toilet water, and threatened with death, as his kidnappers scream about Trump and repeatedly insist that he denounce Trump -- his kidnappers livestreamed their racist hate crime on Facebook as if it was perfectly natural
15 year-old beaten by 4 classmates for wearing MAGA hat, punched, thrown to the ground and kicked, charges filed -- https://www.google.com/amp/amp.usatoday.com/story/93991178/
69 year old woman left with bloody head wound after 27 year old man brutally beats her with a chair for supporting Trump -- http://www.observer-reporter.com/20161201/election_argument_ends_with_assault_donora_police_say
tolerant leftist Matthew Pugh charged with attempted homicide
man beaten by multiple assailants for voting Trump as they taunt him -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZ4_zVa2Uw4
hispanic man chased and beaten by a mob for wearing MAGA hat -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRSrH5SxADk
elementary student beaten by classmates, left in crutches for voting Trump in mock election -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52EoprTSouU
female in high school being beaten by another student for posting pro-Trump Instagram comment, as classmates cheer -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgHt0s2UQHQ
bloody violence against Trump supporters outside San Jose rally -- https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/06/03/ugly-bloody-scenes-in-san-jose-as-protesters-attack-trump-supporters-outside-rally/
teen chased by mob, tackled, hit multiple times for supporting Trump at a rally -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTrYhrHsG-s [two arrested]
man sucker punched, knocked to ground for supporting Trump at a rally -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlF1B1KeWJI
man struck with object from behind ends up bleeding, for supporting Trump at a rally -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmBXNE8gZvI
man left bloody for attending a Trump rally, rocks thrown at cars, etc, in Costa Mesa, -- https://youtu.be/8K1wEgDdO64 (17 arrests from the riot)
62 year old man beaten with crowbar for wearing Trump shirt, in front of witnesses -- http://www.nj.com/essex/index.ssf/2016/08/man_attacked_by_stranger_who_questioned_his_trump.html
"makes her living pretending" ---- justintime
So you are saying you hold no value for the arts?!!
That an actor is nothing more than a fake person???
Pretty sad.
And for the record, she was not acting last night. She said nothing **fake**. She stated facts.
Greg Skippy ----
All because of what Trump stands for.
The flip side of Trump supporters is multitudes more extreme in terms of hate crimes
People voted for him -- now suffer the consequences.
truly intolerant people accuse others of being sexist, misogynist, or racist who express different viewpoints
http://aristocratsofthesoul.com/complete-guide-to-dealing-with-social-justice-warriors-sjws/
"now suffer the consequences."
We will... hopefully with nationwide concealed carry, elimination of gun free zones, and unregulated silencers (among other improvements)...
Anti-Trump violators better get their kicks in while they can...
Oooh scary marky mark. Unbelievable how that two inch phallus scarred you for life.
"So you are saying you hold no value for the arts?!!
That an actor is nothing more than a fake person???
Pretty sad"
happiest, I think I was pretty clear by saying I wouldn't look to someone who is exceptionally skilled at pretending (which by definition means lying) to validate my personal views. As far as enjoying the arts for *entertainment*, of course. You don't see the distinction? When I'm being entertained I expect it to be fake, as it always is.
Actors have their place in our society. Being mouthpieces for political agendas isn't one of them, and quite frankly I'd be pissed off if I ever allowed myself to listen to someone just because they're famous. Talk intelligently and without bringing team sports mentality into the mix, well then ok. But that's NOT who most "celebrities" are, most just use their fame as a pulpit to preach to their world view to their deciples.
I agree with Greg, the quick scan I read earlier about her lecture was entirely opinion.
Skippy ----
How dare you say that about me.
How DARE you.
I never said violence is appropriate.
You continue to take the low road.
I stand for peace.
It is Trump and his extreme followers that have no regard for humanity.
It is tragic. I fear for terrible things to come.
mods must be asleep lol - this is stellar. You honestly think their violence is justified and you can end others' free speech because it contradicts your message.
lets review for the scroll challenged -
"So far I have seen no violence from anti-Trump people. " - HG
million links to violence perpetuated against trump supporters - Skippy
"All because of what Trump stands for. The flip side of Trump supporters is multitudes more extreme in terms of hate crimes. People voted for him -- now suffer the consequences." - HG
"So first you didn't see the violence now the violence is appropriate" - Skippy
"Yes Skippy, it is sad that you identify with an intolerant person named Trump." - HG
now your indignant? perhaps you should stand for peace elsewhere...
JIT, by your definition Trump is the world's greatest actor.
But your view of acting is narrow and pedestrian. True actors illuminate and become their character, giving life to what was written and expanding on it. Great performances are transendant and iconic. Hardly "lying".
justintime ---
Just as I thought.
You really don't get it.
Art is not "entertainment".
Hmmm, you know in the past I used to think, yeah who cares about what so and so thinks in about whatever. Like I should care because they're famous. I hadn't really thought about it until now but it's not so much that their view is so much more important because it isn't. The point is they have the means and the venue to bring a cause to light or to be the one to stand up to injustice or give strength to the oppressed. I read recently that it was one man who stood up to Joe McCarthy during that horrible era by saying "have you no decency sir". And that was the beginning of the end of McCarthyism. So say what you want about Meryl but it takes someone to stand up to powerful bullies.
Wait - isn't the whole point of being "fine arts" that it's beauty is in the "eye of the beholder"?
Damn, this whole time no one told me it was really predetermined by *your* eye lol.
"JIT, by your definition Trump is the world's greatest actor."
He's actually a terrible actor, but I agree with your point I think.
This was no acting ... and --
NO one should ever forget.
Trump is a Sexual Predator.
"People voted for him -- now suffer the consequences."
HG- you are deplorable. Own it. You are a disgrace to society with an attitude like that. And you wonder why the nation backlashed against the "tolerant' and "accepting" PC left?
If blacks across America had been beaten and tortured for voting for Obama, would you have said the same thing? Your double-standard and hatred are exactly why the country is in the shape it's in.
I think we can all agree that neither supporters of, nor the antis, have a monopoly on violence. We can post a thousand links demonstrating violence on both sides. And I thought the backlash was against establishment politics? But I see that every chance you get you throw in left, and dems, and liberals and politically correct. You do realize that both the right and the left have each done good and bad right? No one party has a monopoly on good works or bad. But I do think a certain person can bring out the worst in people. Both sides. And you can probably post new links every day to support that. And that's a sad thing for sure.
RAS- of course. I haven't been a "card carrying" republican for years now, but I can see how it might look like I am, with all my illustrations of the left's hypocrisy since Trump's election win.
I have said repeatedly- Trump is not MY 1st choice, and I don't see him as any kind of "savior" to "undo the evils of Obama" or anything like that. You'll note my flag is still upside down: I am under no false illusions that things are going to get better... but, like all the Obama voters these last 2 elections, I have "hope." Time will tell. I DO think he can't be worse than Obama or Hillary, so at least there's that.
As for the backlash, it was against establishment politics, but it was also against the left-leaning (bordering on the propaganda arm of the administration) mainstream media outlets, as well as the PC culture run amok. People are sick of ALL of it. It was the perfect storm for a non-politician like Trump to get elected.
Agreed RAS. That's what happens when the political focus of Republicrats is to find evermore creative ways to force people into behaviors that those in power feel are appropriate.
The commonality here is the application of force through legal means.
I know not a single person who likes being forced into behaviors that are outside of their nature, so the greater the force applied (i.e. Laws) the more turmoil there will be.
I guess I still don't see how putting some one so disgusting and vile and dishonest and creepy and childish and scary is the right answer. For me this isn't the same as when Bush won the second time. And I voted for him the first time around. The second time I was upset and concerned about certain issues but I wasn't scared out of my mind like I am now. Although I could say from day one I was sure he would find a way to attack Iraq and he did. But this guy, my lord there's so much he can f**** up in a very big way for a lot of people and the planet. And he seems intent on doing so. I mean c'mon maybe you didn't like Obama as a choice but were you really scared for your safety and well being? No, you were probably worried that Alaska was off limits for drilling or something like that. That's not scary. That's a difference of opinion. I'm just trying to put it in perspective why at least my reaction to this election is so visceral. I can't speak for others but I suspect it's similar. He is just that freaking scary.
Like the last 8 years of pay exhorbinant taxes or we will jail you. give up your guns or we will send someone with a gun to come take them. oh you made a clerical error on a 4473 ? Felon. dont even get me started on what the ACA has done to people. We've been compelled by force to follow this agenda for the last 8 years and finally have had enough
" I mean c'mon maybe you didn't like Obama as a choice but were you really scared for your safety and well being?"
Actually yes- re: the 2nd Amendment. And he DID try- VERY hard- to further the unconstitutional gun control agenda, and thanks ONLY to the pushback of the grassroots efforts of the American people did he fail, miserably, thank goodness. Between the push for fewer rights and the militarization of the police, things have gotten very scary.
Also, the entire socialist agenda scared me, it's not who we are or have ever been, and JIT has explained it, fiscally, extremely well many times over. We are at a tipping point that may not be recoverable, and socialist policies cannot save us, and will even hasten our descent into collapse. At least the pro-capitalist agenda of Trump MIGHT be able to revive the economy.... we'll see.... I still don't think it's savable, in the end, there's no way for a recovery/boom like we saw in the 80s.
As far as another cold war, it seems to me Obama's actions are more in that direction than Trump's have been. What happened to the left of the late 70s who wanted to befriend Russia, and talk to them instead of resist them? But you don't want to do that now that Trump is the one doing it? Communist Gorbachev was A-OK but Putin isn't? Come on....
LOL, I'm old but not that old JR. I don't know the political history you speak of. But okay, you're scared to. Understood.
Good news from The Onion:
WASHINGTON—In an effort to reassure citizens ahead of a planned effort to overhaul the U.S. healthcare system, Republican congressional leaders promised Monday that Americans would still be able to keep their current medical conditions if the Affordable Care Act is repealed. “Whatever health problem you have right now, you will absolutely still be allowed to continue having it once Obamacare has been dismantled,” said House Speaker Paul Ryan, adding that the repeal of the landmark healthcare legislation would in no way prevent patients from maintaining their existing medical issues or even adding to their afflictions. “Let’s say you have lymphoma. Under our plan, you can still have lymphoma. You could even expand on that into other forms of cancer. In fact, for the vast majority of Americans, repealing Obamacare will actually increase the number of significant medical conditions available to them.” Ryan added that under the new system, millions of Americans would also see a 100 percent reduction in their health insurance premiums, copays, and coverage.
RAS- it's a good point to make. Everyone is "scared" (or at least concerned) at least half the time, depending on which party is controlling DC (and it's not just the presidency, the Congress actually has even more power)....
The problem is, this concern is turned into fear- and even hatred- by BOTH sides. And the PEOPLE of BOTH sides fall for it, every time. I linked to an article by Anthony Bourdain above- you should read it- he's no Trump fan, but he also recognizes the frenzy of unreasonableness and hatred coming out of the left, especially since Trump won. We are all just trying to get on with life, and most of us are good people (altho I question some on here- justifying and being OK with torture of innocent kids because of who they voted for), and I dare say if we all just met in a room and had a REASONABLE conversation about the state of the union, we would actually agree alot more than we realize. I mean seriously...
NO ONE wants another cold war
NO ONE wants more terrorists attacks on American soil
NO ONE wants to send more Americans to die
EVERYONE wants the economy to improve, housing market, jobs, etc
EVERYONE wants more liberty and freedom (a sticky wicket tho: everyone wants it for THEMSELVES, but some: seemingly not necessarily for EVERYONE)
I'm a libertarian mostly (the philosophy, not the party): you leave me alone, and I'll leave you alone. You do what you want and I'll do what I want. Smallest possible federal govt, you keep most of what you earn, and you don't get handouts in perpetuity. Stop policing the world and take care of HOME first. Protect the constitution... if you want to change it, change it- AS IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE DONE: with a constitutional convention, not with go-arounds like SCOTUS decisions and executive orders.
Of course, if we get to the point of financial collapse, none of this matters. It'll be like The Walking Dead, just without the zombies LOL.
"I guess I still don't see how putting some one so disgusting and vile and dishonest and creepy and childish and scary is the right answer"
He's not the right answer IMO. But it's more of what he's NOT than what he is, an he's not the status quo. I personally believe he will accelerate our core problems (even if in the short term it may not look that way) and that, IMO, isn't a bad thing based on the fact that, as I'm sure you know from my posts, the trend our country has been on has been one of financial self-destruction. If it takes a guy like Trump to get more people thinking big-picture then so be it, because in my view the current dialog addresses the completely wrong subjects.
Either way, we're on this path so let's keep moving instead of sitting idle and complaining about it...
JIT: two words on actors and your disbelief in any of their opinions: Ronald Reagan.
"HG- you are deplorable. Own it. You are a disgrace to society with an attitude like that. And you wonder why the nation backlashed against the "tolerant' and "accepting" PC left?" hey jr., good you can discover another reason to be rude. Oh I'm sorry. I mean intolerant and unaccepting. Your words.
Now we have 36-yr old SIL Kushner as top aid de Duck. Trump says: well, if Hillary could do it. I wonder when it will dawn on him that Hillary is not and was not President....ever. I wonder when it will dawn on you.
"and socialist policies cannot save us..." Uh, they just did smart guy. Can you say 2008 financial meltdown?
And yeah, there are many that have a bone to pick with Kate's Law. And they are not all deplorable jr. Some may even be considered to be conservative. You should try it. http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/09/kates-law-mandatory-sentencing/403990/
"Communist Gorbachev was A-OK but Putin isn't? Come on...." Remember who jr. really supports. Got to be the funniest thing he has postulated. But yes jr., Putin is not A-OK. See aggressive acts above......
" I personally believe he will accelerate our core problems (even if in the short term it may not look that way) and that, IMO, isn't a bad thing based on the fact that, as I'm sure you know from my posts, the trend our country has been on has been one of financial self-destruction."
What a sweet thought.
"Think of all the hate there is in Red China!
Then take a look around to Selma, Alabama!
Ah, you may leave here, for four days in space,
But when your return, it's the same old place,
The poundin' of the drums, the pride and disgrace,
You can bury your dead, but don't leave a trace,
Hate your next door neighbor, but don't forget to say grace,
And you tell me over and over and over and over again my friend,
You don't believe we're on the eve of destruction."
Sweeeeet.
SG
haha. Weak attempt to defend a deplorable person who has no problem with people people beaten and tortured because of who they voted for. She has shown herself to be despicable, and not worthy of further dialogue.
At least you veil your attempts at logic in endless word-marathons that obfuscate and divert the the facts... that takes some talent. But I think even you wouldn't stoop to the level of "you voted for him, now suffer the consequences" in a conversation that was about VIOLENCE being perpetrated by candidate's supporters. Skippy did an excellent job of showing the FACTS on that one- which HG ("deplorable girl" from now on) is willfully turning a blind eye too- and even worse- CONDONING it. She is the worst kind of person.
wait what? that was in response to telling us that since we voted for trump we deserve violence in the streets -“argumentum ad baculum” (the “appeal to force”) - HG attempts to negate the validity of out position by pointing to violence that will befall anyone who takes said position - and calling her out is a legitimate emotion in the face of injustice.
No surprise because promoting strife at every opportunity is an actual campaign strategy. Almost the entire message of the Democratic Party to large swathes of the electorate is, "Everybody who doesn't look like you hates you except us."
do you mean the bail out in 2008 that Bill Clinton caused?
The Glass-Steagall act was formed after the 1929 crash. It prevents banks from gambling with depositors money, like the big investment banks, such as Goldman-Sachs (you know the bank Hillary received huge speaking fees from). It was repealed during the Clinton administration, in order to allow more money to be pumped into home-purchase incentives for people who could not afford them.
SD, you may remember this one? Seems amazingly prescient.
RANDY NEWMAN
Political Science Lyrics
No one likes us, I don't know why
We may not be perfect but heaven knows we try
But all around, even our old friends put us down
Let's drop the big one and see what happens
We give them money but are they grateful?
No, they're spiteful and they're hateful
They don't respect us so let's surprise them
We'll drop the big one and pulverize them
Asia's crowded and Europe's too old
Africa is far too hot and Canada's too cold
And South America stole our name
Let's drop the big one, there'll be no one left to blame us
We'll save Australia
Don't wanna hurt no kangaroo
We'll build an All American amusement park there
They got surfin', too
Boom goes London and boom Paree
More room for you and more room for me
And every city the whole world round
Will just be another American town
Oh, how peaceful it will be we'll set everybody free
You'll wear a Japanese kimono and there'll be Italian shoes for me
They all hate us anyhow, so let's drop the big one now
Let's drop the big one now
What defense jr? I was just calling your words rude, intolerant and unaccepting. You have such a thin skin. OH NO --- reap what you sow. Awful, shameful language. The horror of it all.....
Just because there are too many words, you are diverted and obfuscated. I can understand your difficulty. And yes, too many words are a dead giveaway of fact diversion. Known fact. Slow talkers should be blamed as well. And stutterers.
And violence to candidate's supporters..... Here's 200 of them in the 4 days after the election..... Probably just a quid pro quo over the pre-election crap: http://heavy.com/news/2016/11/trump-hate-crimes-violence-election-hoax-fake-donald-muslims-supporters-attacks-protests-riots-islam-racist-graffiti-nazi-california-new-york-louisiana-philadelphia-chicago-video-photos/
Wait, how about just against women --- you know --- pussy grabee's: http://nymag.com/thecut/2016/10/violence-committed-against-women-by-trump-supporters.html
Of course, Duckface calmed them down with "You people were vicious, violent, screaming, 'Where's the wall? We want the wall!' Screaming, 'Prison! Prison! Lock her up!' I mean you are going crazy. I mean, you were nasty and mean and vicious and you wanted to win, right?" Trump said Friday. "But now, you're mellow and you're cool and you're not nearly as vicious or violent, right? Because we won, right?" Because you won you are not nearly as vicious, right? That's the spirit needed to make Amerika grate again.
And for a little white-on-black Trump fan-fare, there's: http://www.ibtimes.com/trump-nation-whites-only-20-horrific-acts-violence-against-minorities-president-2446458
It's good to specialize when you are in the hate crime business.
If you think RR is s reason to convince me that actors are necessarily good at their job I'll agree fully. And also point out that he was so skilled, such a great actor, that he managed to convince everyone that prosperity at the expense of debt was the way to go, something most still believe today. He was, after all, the president who fully embraced debt as a means to appease the masses.
To be truthful though, he was only part of it: a great many other "actors" in political office are just as skilled, if not better.
"do you mean the bail out in 2008 that Bill Clinton caused?" Wow. Tin foil hat hurt much? Tight tinfoil fit causing revisionist history?
Glass-Steagall started as The Banking Act of 1933 setting up the FDIC, depository insurance and separating banking and finance operations. That's the bedrock of the legislation. That's Democrat Roosevelt cleaning up Republican Hoover's spew.
In 1987, the first allowance for combined banking and securities operations was allowed. This is Reagan country Skipster, not Clinton....Paul Volcker, appointed by Jimmy Carter, voted NO.
During the presidency of Bush I, Greenspan (appointed by Reagan) and Treasury Secretary James Baker (another Reagan man) further weakened Glass-Steagall allowing financing with higher risks to be sold by banks, sometimes as "risk-free."
And yes, Clinton added to this with the 1999 Financial Modernization Act which basically gutted Glass and completed the Republican efforts to deregulate the entire financial market that started with your man Ron. All Republicans except Richard Shelby of Alabama voted YIPPEE!!! Democrats Boxer, Mikulski, Harkin, Bryan, Feingold, and Wellstone voted no way.
But cause the meltdown? Obviously not by himself nor by only destroying Glass-Steagall. If you remember, the leaders of the meltdown were MorganStanley, Bear Stearns, Lehman Brothers and the insurance company, AIG. Not one of these had banking operations at the time, much less combined banking and investment operations.
I know, too many words, must be obscuring the facts for you......
oh hey - while we were busy arguing over nothing (Russia fake news) The FBI released a new batch of documents cataloging the investigation of my friend and yours - Hillary.
https://vault.fbi.gov/hillary-r.-clinton
sure looks like someone is building a federal case including the preservation of records, evidence chain of custody, and listing seized items.
check out page 235 - the FBI admits the Office of Inspector General found classified materials on Clinton’s server. This means the FBI knew about this leak well before anything was made public — and while Clinton was publicly lying about it.
Don't forget the ACA included insurance companies not refusing pre-existing conditions and no lifetime cap.... what put someone like Christopher Reeves, into poverty. Robin Williams (may him rest in peace), paid off his medical bills, without making it a publicity stunt.
Healthcare is a right.... not a privilege. And that's all the republicans are REALLY harping on. So much for basic human rights and principles. If they can replace it with something better? Go for it! Obama tried, for years, and kept getting shot down by the house and senators. They are to blame, for the problems and costs of the ACA.
Now, if the taxing system, went back to pre Dubya and Reagan? Things could be worked out, to make everyone happy... except the people with hundreds of millions of dollars. The gold plated toilet seats are WAY more important, than paying their fair share of taxes and increasing pay, for their employees, to allow for inflation.
Trump just reeks of "conflict of interest"..... probably the rotten smell of his swamp.
"Healthcare is a right.... not a privilege"
Lol now that's pretty funny. The last time I checked "rights" were intimately personal, IOW our rights do not require the indentured servitude of others to fulfill!
"oh hey - while we were busy arguing" you were busy looking at July 2016 FBI transcripts and concluding something new! Luckily we have a-holes like http://www.cbsnews.com/news/congressional-republicans-will-continue-to-pursue-hillary-clinton-email-investigation/ to continue chasing your valient cause of liberty and national security instead of defending the USA against Trump's buddy, Putin's phising campaign of disinformation or what you like to call: NEWS. Putin will make America Great Again.
Next expensive investigation: Email Street--- Part 3 --- Why not look again?
Can we have: Return to Benghazi --- The Sixth Investigation?"
"The last time I checked "rights" were intimately personal, IOW our rights do not require the indentured servitude of others to fulfill!"
Really? Rights are Intimately personal? Hard to argue an idea that just does not make any sense. He's so indentured to his servitude.
Enough about Obama's ACA disaster. Just repeal it. Or to using the Trumpian definition of repeal it all: just repeal the parts Trump no like. You know, the bad parts. Not the good parts. And then after you partially repeal it, replace it entirely. Complete replacement means Trump just replaces parts with those better alternatives that you have been planning for well over a decade. You know: the better things.
Remember those better things.... like selling insurance across state lines ending the State's Rights to govern insurance so that we can only buy what the Federal Government says is OKwTrump and that guy on his cabinet from AIG.
Or how about all those old plans that don't meet our new standards; we gotta bring those back.
Or end the mandate so you don't need to buy insurance anymore and can just go to the ER for free. It's a deeply personal choice to take the intimately personal choice against responsibility so that when you get your free ER service, the rest of us can not make the deeply personal choice to cover your debts with our premiums. Freedom!!! Personal Choice!!!
Allow you to deduct insurance premiums which is not the same as providing tax credits like the ACA. Cool. Now you can save less than 10% on that insurance you can't afford to buy in the first place. Problem solved.....
Open up HSA accounts to those who can't afford them to begin with. Excellent for the rich though.
Allow individuals to shop for the best prices. That's right, you can google hospitals right from the ambulance!!!
Block grants for Medicaid. Hey, if that matters to you, get a job. Even Forbes says this one is a dog that don't hunt. http://www.forbes.com/sites/brucejapsen/2016/11/27/why-trumps-block-grants-for-medicaid-face-opposition/#37e60f7320f9
Wow ---- now that's a replacement plan that makes America sick again.
Part 5 of the investigation docs was posted 1/8/17 - new file 299 pages..
The first document in the file is the initial report titled “Opening of Full Investigation on a Sensitive Investigative Matter (SIM),” which is dated July 10, 2015. It states the investigation is designated as a SIM because of the “connection to a current public official, political appointee or candidate,” which kept the status of the case out of the public domain. - could not be released until now..
The entire time she was testifying under oath, the FBI knew she was lying about the server and the emails. Abedin has been and is still under criminal investigation since 2013. the investigation was classified as a "federal crime" an/or a "threat to national security".
https://www.rawstory.com/2017/01/jason-chaffetz-promises-to-pursue-investigation-into-hillary-clintons-emails-its-not-going-away/
I sincerely hope she runs for mayor of NYC
http://www.hackettstownlife.com/forum/769688#t776085
Hey SD, what's the meaning there, behind that little set of prose you posted? There's an implication that's nowhere near true, and it would be nice if you clarified. Thanks!
https://twitter.com/SenTedCruz/status/818927370384080900
Trump, Pence, Cruz, Paul.... Its like a new set of founding fathers has returned.
Why it's Barry McGuire's one hit wonder "Eve of Destruction." Very appropriate for our times. As to the exact meaning, I will leave that up to you. It's considered art so meanings may differ dependent on the viewer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfZVu0alU0I
You just can't beat the NYT reporting on Buzz Feed's unverified reports about Trump's Russia.......
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/10/business/buzzfeed-donald-trump-russia.html?_r=0
https://www.buzzfeed.com/kenbensinger/these-reports-allege-trump-has-deep-ties-to-russia?utm_term=.onmk8xJdYL#.aumDpZ2g8E
We got Bro's, we got romance, we got Communists.... It's Bromocom Gate.
When Trump asked if there was any truth to the allegations, he said: "Da nyet, navernoe!"
Good NYT article, SD, discussing the problem of what to publish and what not to publish. So, they are NOT publishing the allegations, since they can't corroborate them.
Since the press gets bashed all the time in this forum, I say, good work.
I'm not reading the buzzfeed link since the report is unsubstantiated and I don't know buzzfeed to be a reliable source.
Trump just ate the MSM for lunch. They used to get away with these fake news stories and finally someone is calling them out on it. And to add injury to insult all this fake news about Trump and Russia took the wind right out of the president's farewell speech.
Trump's attorney spoke nearly twice as long as he did LOL.
Bumbling fool doesn't begin to describe his performance in this, his FIRST press conference since winning the election. Ate the MSM for lunch? He ran away from questions, rambled about a wall, rambled about Hilary and Kasich and how "yuge" his rallies were, still bragging about his campaign because he never thought he'd get this far. I wonder how Putin's hand felt during that conference, as it was so far up his ya-know that I'm pretty sure we were looking at his fingernails instead of Trump's teeth.
" no question for you ... you're Fake News! "CNN LOL
"BBC...another beauty" but he took the question..
No one should jump to conclusions based on unverified intelligence; however, there's certainly enough smoke going back to Donnie Junior's 2008 quote of: “Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets. We see a lot of money pouring in from Russia.”, to launch a full-scale Congressional investigation including the subpoena of all of his financial records, not just his tax returns. The intelligence also needs to be verified one way or the other. If it's false, great... but we need to know.
Yes and you know what certain people have said, at least where it came to HRC, where there's smoke there must be fire! Bring on the many, many, many investigations! We have got to get to the bottom of this!
Meanwhile back at the ranch better start learning Russian ;)
Yes,Hillary the lying corrupt,murdering,untrustworthy,marriage for political and monetary gain sham,highest negative rating of any Dem that ever has run for CIC etc is as clean as Mother Teresa.
Yet,she lost to an ego maniac,sexual predator,blowhard etc Trump which makes her look even worse.
Even the fact that she has a vagina and many women voted for her ONLY because of that and she still couldn't win.Probably one or two here.
The most embarrassing loss in Presidential election history.
Even broke the record for negative elector votes with 5 and 2-3 others who voted against her but were replaced with electors who voted for her..
Even a s spotted eagle got a vote over her.LOL!
My gosh what an ass this man is. I am truly embarrassed to think this blowhard will be our President in less than two weeks.
Just for 4 years.
I don't think he would do 8.
The Dem party effed up.
They screwed Bernie who may have won but he's a nut case.
They should have talked Biden into running.He would have won in a landslide.
"Just for 4 years.
I don't think he would do 8."
uh....
1) he's an egomaniac: they ALL are. Even Bernie.
2) he mentioned doing 8 years in his presser today.
Of course he's going to say that and he may really feel he will.
However,he is is 70 and 71 in June.With the stress of being President,I can't see him doing 8 years even if he could be re-elected but at this point,who knows for sure.
.
LOL. You guys better go get a big supply of play doh and find your safe space before next Friday. It's going to be a long 8 years for you.
C'mon, Ollie, you really think he's going to make it past a year without getting impeached?
Clinton was impeached!
Bill Clinton and Andrew Johnson are the only two presidents ever impeached and neither were convicted. Nixon may have been convicted had he not resigned. The senate requires a two thirds majority to convict which is a rather high bar.
It's humorous and pleasing to see the press get the amount of respect they actually DESERVE.
ROFLMAO
BTW Reagan was almost 70 (69 and 11 mos.) when elected.
"BTW Reagan was almost 70 (69 and 11 mos.) when elected."
... and almost completely senile when he left office.
Yes, I did make a point, JR. Can you figure out what it was? Or do I need to go into strangerdanger mode and lead you to it?
Please listen to John Lewis - especially those of you who have short memories of history: https://youtu.be/OUeX0vPKvVw
...different twist but essentially the same thing going on this moment in the Middle East...
4catmom, Rep Lewis gave a nice history lesson (neatly his entire speech) but what in the world does that have to do with Sessions?
It seems to me that many are assuming Sessions will be biased, but I ask why? Because of a couple of old comments? What is his stance today that is so negative that this Representative felt the need to give a history lesson? Sorry if there's current info on this, I've only come across old stuff
JIT, really not that difficult to find...
http://votesmart.org/candidate/key-votes/443/jeff-sessions-iii#.WHdy3LUzVD8
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/jeff-sessions-says-he-handled-these-civil-rights-cases-he-barely-touched-them/2017/01/03/4ddfffa6-d0fa-11e6-a783-cd3fa950f2fd_story.html?utm_term=.0c9afe89594e
ianimal, he had the beginnings of Alzheimer's . Evidently you have never experienced having a loved one suffer with this horrible disease. And with your harsh attitude towards President Regan I hope you never do. Believe me it's not something I wish on anyone. You should be shamed of yourself.
MB, sorry keep dreaming but I have no doubt he will ever be impeached. You people keep throwing anything and everything against the wall and nothing sticks.
We finally have someone who won't take the crap from the left and I hope the GOP is paying close attention.
Signed.. one huge deplorable who is getting a charge out of watching all this!!
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/12/us/politics/health-care-congress-vote-a-rama.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0
In its lengthy series of votes, the Senate rejected amendments proposed by Democrats that were intended to allow imports of prescription drugs from Canada, protect rural hospitals and ensure continued access to coverage for people with pre-existing conditions, among other causes.
I just watched Trumps speech from yesterday early this morning. I applaud him for calling CNN "Fake news". I can't tell you how often over the years I've been outraged with some of their reporting. They are one of the networks that has incited the race war with police over the past few years. They tried to influence an election. This kind of nonsense happens in our own country, but we're worried about Russia or whoever hacking the DNC and getting Hillary's emails?! Deal with the problem at home first. The problem with foreign nations is less complicated. Build a better firewall so these foreigners can't get in...
Ollie - we'll have to wait and see. I don't think it's dreaming. Where there's smoke, there's fire and there's been an awful lot of smoking pouring out as of late. I'm sure a lot of it is fabricated, but it's hard to believe there's nothing to the Putin connection.
I would think by now if there was a real connection the Clinton machine would have found it. If he really has connections why make it public knowledge? Wouldn't it be wiser to keep it under wraps while investigating? Just a thought.
Actually, Ollie, I'm quite familiar with Alzheimer's and have no harsh attitude toward Ronald Reagan. I'm not sure how you made either leap from my comment. Perhaps you don't recall him saying "I don't recall" or "I can't remember" 88 times during the Iran-Contra hearings. So, either he was senile or a liar who perjured himself under oath. I prefer to believe the former, although you're free to think of him as a liar if you prefer.
"So, either he was senile or a liar who perjured himself under oath."
Wow... sounds familiar... seems we dodged another senile person in office.
http://www.mediaite.com/election-2016/heres-all-40-times-hillary-clinton-told-the-fbi-she-couldnt-remember-something/
I am so sorry that you have been taking crap from the left for so long that you have turned bitter yet happy in your deplorableness. It's a badge anointed you by a loser and you should be proud.
And now Trump dropped the N-word to be forever associated with our intelligence community.
Of course Trump had this information last week as given to him by his N-word intelligence chiefs. It was in report form though, not a tweet so many words and hard for some to comprehend. He does know Nazi though. Drumpf.
Intelligence had this info during the summer but could not deem it credible at that time so held back. Putin says it's a lie so rump is going with that.
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3259984-Trump-Intelligence-Allegations.html
Where is Comey now?
"Perhaps you don't recall him saying "I don't recall" or "I can't remember" 88 times during the Iran-Contra hearings."
Oh, well in that case, Hillary started senility a long time ago!
on Whitewater hearings....
"During her husband’s administration when she served as First Lady, Hillary Clinton was questioned under oath during the investigation into the Whitewater scandal. According to reports about her testimony, the then First Lady had a great deal of difficulty remembering anything at all, using the “I don’t recall or I don’t remember defense” a number of times. For Clinton having a photographic memory and testifying truthfully would not be a good thing at all. "
But, for a more recent example: her FBI questioning on the email server:
"In the three hours-plus that Hillary Clinton spoke with FBI investigators about her private email server on July 2, she cited more than three-dozen things that she could not recall." (I think the number was 39 times)
Thanks yankeefan, but other than the old accusations what does any of that have to do with the "history of racism in the united states" video 4catmom posted?
I ask because IMO Rep Lewis' "testimony" didn't address anything other than to imply that Sessions is an extremist racist. He may have racist tendencies, I don't know, but c'mon. That was a little bit more than over the top, and IMO very slanderous without proof.
JIT, Sessions is also very concerning to me (and others) in terms of his stated positions on Roe vs. Wade, (and Women's rights in general) Voting Rights, LGBT equality issues, and more. Perhaps Rep. Lewis failed to make the very valid point that Sessions represents (again, check his voting record as Senator) an ideology that in my opinion moves the country backwards rather than forward.
justintime - it seems to me that racism has come out of the closet since the election - incidents of hate have escalated in a truly frightening way - so it is more than appropriate to remember ............with hopes that any in the federal government will work against it.
And from the land of wink-wink, nudge-nudge, Duckhead Rump completely separated from his business by not separating from his business. Going forward, he will step two steps to the left, and one to the right, from the TRUMP business which will be run at "arm's-length" by his sons.
In related news, both of Trump's sons have gone for plastic surgery to receive alligator arms. Trump has also promised, wink-wink, not to talk business with his kids going forward and to stay alligator's arms length away from them. Also, his prize possession, the brand name Trump, will be kept at arm's length from the Presidency to avoid confusion between the business and the public office. TRUMP will be the name for the business but now President Trump will be known as Lord Grabber or just Lord for short.
Ivanka has also stepped down so she can enjoy Federal Subsidies, a new sandwich made by local-realtor-turned-global-gadfly, Jared. Trump says he likes the way Jared counts, he's Jewish so he can advise. Ivanka will become the first lady, and the first daughter to become first lady. Melania will stay in NYC to rub Barron with Melania’s Caviar Complex C6 moisturizer every night after his bath. “It smells very, very fresh,” Melania, who launched the skincare line exclusively in Lord & Taylor this week, told ABC News. “I put it on him from head to toe. He likes it!”
Now to be fair, the Duckface has said he will no longer talk business with the boys. Wink-wink. Honest. "I could actually run my business and run government at the same time," Trump said. "I don’t like the way that looks but I’d be able to do that." Heck yeah. And he could run your business at the same time too. Watch him.
Trump's assets, yeah he has a couple of assets, will be put in a blind trust like every other President. Ooops, sorry, I meant Trust unlike every other President who uses the normal blind trust process. In other words, Trump's trust ain't blind but he promises not to talk business unless an alligator's arm length away from the kids.
Trump has committed to the business having no foreign deals during his Presidency. So much for not controlling the business.......
So,
No arms length separation from business
His own kids run the business
Other kids run the government
No blind trust for assets, just trust
Still making global business decisions
No release of taxes
No release of even the notice that he is actually being audited
Mexico will pay for the wall......someday.....meanwhile the taxpayers will cover
Repeal ObamaCare....no, just the bad parts....replace it with something better TBD (10 years to figure out, still counting, still waiting for the description of something better)
Bigger tax cuts than Reagan, biggest ever, Trump sized cuts (less revenue)
Huge infrastructure investment, now including the WALL (more spending)
Rebuild military to Iraq/Afghanistan levels (even more spending)
Deport 11 million workers (more spending, less workers)
Seems like a lot more spending involved here and zero divesting from conflicts of interest. Just a tip of the ole iceberg: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38069298
JIT - The lesson from Rep Lewis wasn't just about racism but specifically aimed at the connection to the Voter Rights Act. IMO that's relevant because they're bringing up Session's *current* views on it including Session's 2013 statements in support of the SCOTUS gutting it. It's not just racism either, Session's view on the same act is also being questioned in relation to revoking Muslim's right to vote as well as immigration questions about birth right citizenship and potentially revoking current citizenship. Those are all current issues, not old ones. You can make up your own mind on the answer, but the valid question is will he really hold to the Equal Protection Under the Law part of the Constitution?
Sessions, while technically qualified, should have never been nominated because he has consistently politicized constitutional issues. Still a racist? Not overtly. Think you can question his voting rights stance, call for religious litmus test, and other current event as discriminatory which is unconstitutional.
Hey, Reagan's Senate Judiciary Committee denied Sessions for racism before, now it's Trump's party's turn.
On the positive side, Sessions will crack down on minor drug offences stating once that "reduced prison populations increase crime." That, plus his possible willingness lose some justice departmental independence to be closer to the oval office while enjoying a little of that "meal best served cold" that both men so dearly love just might turn the tide faster than prohibition created the "speak ezy :>)"
Good thing the executive branch (where Sessions will sit) doesn't create laws, just upholds them. It doesn't matter what Session thinks about marijuana, he'll never be in charge of making laws, only upholding the laws that the legislative branch makes.
He is against same-sex marriage. So what? He doesn't make the laws.
He also stated he will uphold the law regardless of his personal beliefs - here is his testimony on Roe V. Wade http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/10/politics/jeff-sessions-roe-v-wade-abortion-hearing-response/
Good point skippy. But will he uphold all the laws, say like the ones that may go against a certain someone's businesses or interests?
only time will tell but he seems pretty committed to doing the best job possible regardless of his beliefs personally - he definitely has a wide breadth of experience in the law.
"Oh, well in that case, Hillary started senility a long time ago!"
No, JR... Hillary is a liar.... a very prolific one.
Scary how quickly and easily we make the assumption that our law makers would so easily break the law.
I think that says a lot about the current state of our nation....
But we were called paranoid nutjobs when we suggested that for the previous administration...
justintime, the populace believing that lawmakers would easily break the law probably dates back to whenever the first law was written; it's nothing new. Hell, Jehovah had no problem breaking his own commandments, did he?
Oh you're definitely still a paranoid nutjob. That clearly remains consistent regardless of the administration.
"But we were called paranoid nutjobs when we suggested that for the previous administration..."
Yup. Some of us are wise enough to distrust ALL govt- no matter the party.
lol, so now everyone admits that politics is pure bs. About freakin' time! Does that mean we can all stop ridiculing and criticizing each other then, since no one here could possibly have a clue? ;-)
Btw, I should have stated more clearly in my previous posts that the topic of discussion here relates to a job that falls under the executive branch and not the legislative, meaning the position requires Sessions to *enforce* the law, not make the law. Any comments about his views as it pertains to law *making* isn't really applicable, except through the lens that implies he would intentionally not follow laws he personally disagrees with. We can joke about that all we want, but that thought process can't possibly be good in the long run...
Btw, thanks for your post above GC. It has nothing to do with the video being discussed but at least cuts through the purely emotional stuff being thrown about.
JIT, sorry to rain on your happy dance, but I'm fairly certain many of us don't think "politics is pure bs". When elected officials work together to craft laws and policies designed to benefit the common good, that isn't bs, it's government working effectively. This applies at the Federal, State and Local level. To be sure, it doesn't always work well, but on the other hand, politics produced the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
George Washington warned of the "continual mischiefs of the spirit of party" making it the "interest and duty of a wise people to discourage and restrain it."
http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/16/opinion/alexander-washington-george/
Yup. I've been saying it for awhile now: political parties are BAD. George saw it before ANYBODY. What he predicted has come true (and a long time ago)
Yankeefan, not sure anyone could tell given how polarized and narrow minded the majority of us are. One word I've repeated often enough -perspective - is all it takes to stop the confrontational dialogue and start a rational discussion. When do you figure that will happen?
No, most people just want to impose their world view on others. Nothing thoughtful or logical about that.
Love Mattis but for Trump he is 180 degrees from his talk on the Iran deal and US embassy leaving Tel Aviv.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/frankminiter/2016/12/05/the-surprising-thing-about-gen-mad-dog-mattis-that-could-add-a-manly-dose-to-american-culture/#707e06514a2b
I especially love "“Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.” –This was some of Mattis’ advice to his troops in Iraq"
Here's a perfect example of political bs...
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/republicans-health-care-reconciliation-233561
McConnell said he won't bring term limits to the floor for a vote. He is a DC career assho!e...
I got this from iJay's link. Pretty interesting about the tabloids we see at the supermarket.:
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/01/tabloid-newspapers-trump-media-propaganda-214627
...since you asked there is Politco New Jersey. Check this out on the latest rising (full of shi!) star of the Democratic Party:
http://www.politico.com/states/new-jersey/story/2017/01/newark-watershed-fight-emerges-over-disclosures-from-bookers-former-law-firm-108680
Yankeefan, re: your previous link, can you now see the reason for my calling politicians "Republicrats"?
The rules of the game have been so twisted over the years that politics is more about 2-party power than it is what's truly good for this country.
And since you referenced an article about the ACA, I'd like to ask you to focus on the leading A and inquire if it really is "affordable" or if the ACA was designed to merely "find" external sources of money to provide the benefits yet keep the well documented and ridiculously expensive medical industry intact? The answer should be pretty clear IMO. We tried to have it both ways, but unsurprisingly it doesn't work.
JIT, I think you get a little tangled up in semantics...you can call politicians whatever you like, "republicrats", a "team", whatever. The fact remains that there are substantial group of voters who share similar goals and values. Today those voters are loosely grouped into Democrat or Republican blocs. There are many smaller blocs (libertarian, green party), as well, who share common goals and objectives. If you can move past the labeling, you might see the forest.
As for "Affordable", again, semantics. The overall cost of health care has actually slowed it's ascent in recent years. I can cover my children until they are 26. Pre-existing conditions cannot prevent you from getting covered. If the "Republicans", had devoted more time to improving the law, i.e., attacking prescription drug larceny), instead of voting something like 60 times to repeal the law, we'd likely be in an even more "affordable" place.
I understand (I think) that you on principle don't call universal healthcare a "right". Fair enough. I think a progressive country should seek to provide a basic safety blanket to each of it's citizens, and to me, healthcare certainly falls into that safety net, along with Medicare and social security. Congress could and should have been devoting their energies to relentlessly attacking waste, fraud and spiraling costs instead of twiddling their thumbs. Now Congress get to repeal the law and they don't seem to have a clue what to replace it with. Shameful.
Like it or not, life is full of "teams". Because, at least in theory, a team is stronger than just one individual.
Actually yankeefan, I tend to use the term when discussions become absurd - when people are making team-based claims that, by the very nature you just described, make no sense. The article you linked to, for instance, makes a good point about the use of reconciliation as a tool to push an agenda, arguing that there's a dual-standard in play. They're right IMO, and that was my point: It's the systems of government, in this case points of legislative procedure, that are in place that allow for Republicrat abuses, work-arounds and short-cuts that are not in the interest of the good of the country but only for the interest in two-party power plays.
And of course there are varied perspectives on the world. In case you hadn't noticed, I may have mentioned that a few (hundred) times ;-)
At the end of the day all I would like to see is *recognition* of this kind of thing instead of the typical my-team-vs-your-team stuff that is what we normally see. So many folks get worked into fits of hysteria (mention the name TRUMP is a good trigger these days lol) yet the single, most beneficial thing they could do to relieve said hysteria is to stop and recall that there is more than one way to view the world. Talk instead of yell, discuss instead of dictate, open their minds to solutions instead of closing them like steel Republicrat traps.
For instance, maybe there is something to be gained by not wanting war all the time, as suggested by Trump. Maybe "affordable" health care could be something available to all if we actually held the medical industry to 15 U.S. Code § 13, "Discrimination in price, services, or facilities" (have you seen your medical bills before insurance gets involved!), for starters, instead of ignoring the problems in healthcare pricing that has zero basis in reality. Problems, for instance, where insurance companies play middleman, taking a portion of the cost of healthcare off the top for the privilege of just getting in the middle of a transaction.
Anyway, sorry for the longish comment. We agree more than you may think...
As a followup, is there anyone on here who knows where to find direct, contributing evidence to refute the following *opinion* piece? Of course I've heard all the same rhetoric about Trump, just as everyone else has, and I know there is some truth to it. However, how much of it is exaggerated to make a (emotional) Republicrat point? This blogger's *opinion* is interesting only because I personally haven't seen or read the actual accounts from which all of these talking points originated...
http://takimag.com/article/top_10_trump_myths_gavin_mcinnes
I knew that I would be scared, going into my "Golden years".
Healthcare is a right, not a privilege. If we have to pay taxes for police "to keep us safe ", why draw the line, there?
No one complains about paying to educate humans, up to age 18. After that? Won't stand for it! There's so many things people are taxed on, that they may never use. For example, a guy murders a bunch of people, in a bar. Lots of witnesses, caught in the act, and obviously guilty. What is his "reward", for his behavior? Free attorneys,unlimited medical and dental treatment, a roof over his head, a hot shower, a bed, basketball courts, cable and internet .... all free, on your dime. And no one complains.
Then you have decent, honest, hard working folks who can't get insurance, for whatever reason, forced to suffer and die, for lack of money. Republicans and the public, in general, don't see a problem with this?
not sure what you want to discuss here - the Prison Industrial Complex or gaps in healthcare.
Amazingly we agree on some things. But to start, I am not sure you have got the correct definition for the term Republicrat.
The ACA was intended to do many things, including lowering costs. I think it's safe to assume it's "lowered the amount for the increase" but that's as good as it gets. http://time.com/money/4503325/obama-health-care-costs-obamacare/
However one of the main objectives was to get more people covered, safer from catastrophic illness and financial disaster. Yes, they chose insurance as the mechanism, yes insurance plays a weird middleman between doctors, patients, and yes, discriminatory pricing certainly indicates that this is not an open and free market, never will be. That's one of the inherent initial problems that will never change.
Yet if you think insurance is just about a middleman then you have never really needed insurance. The middleman is a weird affect of the healthcare market showing how the market is not open. Insurance is also about gambling. You are gambling you might get very, very sick and the insurance company is betting the opposite. Guess what, the house always wins but those few players who hit the big time keep all of us at the betting table.
That said, the ACA has slowed the price increases and provided lower cost insurance to millions of less affluent, yet hardworking, Americans. It has also insured millions of lower risk, yet since not risk free, younger Americans of all economic strata's.
The problem with the Trump repeal is it's a combination of a weasel-worded repeal-me, repeal-me-not buttressed by a total inferior alternative. Bottom line: nothing really changes except millions of Americans lose insurance.
If you see these facts as team-based, how sad.
Refuting the opinion: you have got to be kidding, right? That piece of writing could be improved by any of us. It was amateur at best.
Healthcare as a right. IMO it's a part of our national security to feel "relatively" safe that getting sick will not send our family's to the poor house. Just as we feel "relatively" safe that bad guys, domestic or foreign, will not kill us in our sleep (except for jr, mark, and skipping who stand armed guard all night long :>) Personally I have no issue with chipping in for that cause even though I never plan to reap any personal financial advantages.
The rest is process and insurance can work, and does, in many places in the world. Sure, the ACA is far from perfect. Yet it is a perfect system in that the issues are fixable and workable for the future.
The Trump plan, having a decade to consider, is NOT even full replacement and is in no way comparable much less superior. It's a loss.
donald....why don't you skip the inauguration like all the other A-listers will?.....you will get your biggest endorsement and even some love, for which you seem to sorely need.....we will salute you with more than just our middle fingers.......
They said the same thing about Obama and nothing happened. I believe any politician has to be concerned about this, you don't get into politics if you have thin skin but thick skin won't stop bullets...
Obama never had the same hatred against him. Everyone gave him the benefit of the doubt and a decent shot at success. Not so with Trump...I think they are going to kill him. Hope he is not stupid enough to attack the Secret Service.
We have an unhinged, Twitter-obsessed, impulsive pending President-elect entering The White House this week.
I wish us all luck, especially with the new Cold War he has created and his repeal-yet-to-reveal health care plan.
We also have to add the plan to defund Planned Parenthood because we also have to revert back to the 1950s when it comes to women's rights, and the 1980s when it comes to Russia, not to mention trickle-down, Trumped-down economics.
Yes, this is change but change that goes backwards.
Congrats to all.
iRun - "Cold War" with whom? China? Russia? Mexico? Plus killing human embryos for profit is humane? Congrats to you.
"Obama never had the same hatred against him. Everyone gave him the benefit of the doubt and a decent shot at success."
Ha, ha, ha, ha.......
Best joke I heard all day.....
http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2016/11/when-obama-was-elected-outpouring-of.html
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/27738018/ns/us_news-life/t/obama-election-spurs-race-threats-crimes/#.WHvPM5dLU2w
If they only looked at MSM every once in awhile....
But we should compare apples to wing nuts.
http://www.attn.com/stories/13264/how-post-election-hate-crimes-compare
You see, both Obama and Trump elections spurred hate crimes. Unfortunately, in both cases the same minorities were targeted by the same deplorables.
Still proud to be deplorable?
Planned parenthood is not about abortion! Yes, that's a sliver of it but it's about women's healthcare and education!!! Wake up!
Ollie ---- America IS Great.
You got duped by the sexual assaulter's asinine mantra.
If you think another country is *greater* why don't you leave America????
Right there with them Bonv- was planning to be at the New York March next Saturday - till my back went kerflooie - hoping to make it - as well as making many more donations to organizations who will fight for the things I believe in.
"Obama never had the same hatred against him. Everyone gave him the benefit of the doubt and a decent shot at success. "
Hmmm.... I guess that means liberal progressive democrats are MUCH bigger haters, and NOT willing to "give someone a chance", moreso than conservative republicans... hmm.....
I didn't say any other country was greater. I never said I would leave. That would be all the leftist nuts who always say the would leave the country yet they are still here. 5 more days and we will be great again!!
Spot on : http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15024879.World_reacts_to____brilliant____Trump_inauguration_synopsis_in_Sunday_Herald_TV_listing/?ref=mrb&lp=1
President Trump: The Inauguration
4 pm, BBC One/ STV
After a long absence, The Twilight Zone returns with one of the most ambitious, expensive and controversial productions in broadcast history. Sci-fi writers have dabbled often with alternative history stories – among the most common is the “What If The Nazis Had Won The Second World War” setting – but this huge interactive virtual reality project, which will unfold on TV, in the press, and on Twitter over the next four years, sets out to build an ongoing alternative present. The story begins in a nightmarish version of 2017 in which huge sections of the US electorate have somehow been duped into voting to make Donald Trump president. It sounds far-fetched, and it is, but as it goes on it becomes more and more chillingly plausible. Today’s feature-length opener concentrates on the gaudy inauguration of President Trump, and the stirrings of protest and despair surrounding the ceremony, while pundits speculate gravely on what lies ahead. It’s a flawed piece, but a disturbing glimpse of the horrors we could stumble into, if we’re not careful.
yes, poor Ollie ..... in for a rude awakening .....
Rude Awakening #1 - Ollie will help to pay for the wall (fence) because Mexico will not.
The sexual assaulter LIED to you, Ollie.
boy, some of you people posting on this topic are so stupid....I hope I'm not one of them....we all think we're not....
Ollie, I'm convinced that in a former life you lived in Troy and you convinced your pals to open up the gates so you could bring the Trojan horse in.
don't worry guys - you get to live in the new great America too - not too late to jump on the trump train for the big win! Get these folks a coat!
Well I guess Planned Parenthood, is going to have to change their name to "Unplanned Parenthood". I took my son's girlfriend to Planned Parenthood, so she could get on birth control, thus allowing her to finish school, and get a career. Better than the alternative. People who are not ready to be parents, shouldn't be forced to reproduce. Planned Parenthood helps prevent child abuse.
Yankeefan..believe what you need to about me. 5 more days till we make America great again!
Ollie....looks a lot like you are one of the very stupid....do you have a clue about this?....or are you pulling some chains?... either way, you lose....
So today America isn't great. But in five days America will be great. Does that happen at the stroke of midnight? 8am? By lunchtime? Or does he need the whole day? You make magical thinkers look like scientists. Well, really looking forward to a day of miracles. And Toby Keith. Oh, and 3 Doors Down. Party!!
Planned Parenthood isn't abortions? You could've fooled them...
"Planned Parenthood, the nation’s largest abortion provider, performed 327,653 abortions in one year, according to the latest data published in its 2013-2014 report.
From Oct. 1, 2012 to Sept. 30, 2013, Planned Parenthood performed 327,653 abortions. Over the course of those 365 days (or 8,760 hours), that averages out to 898 abortions per day and 37 abortions per hour."
@sparksjbc1964: Thank you. One of my points.
Narrow minds just think Planned Parenthood is pro-abortion and ignore the sex education/birth control component, plus low-cost mammograms and annual exams, necessary for breast and reproductive cancers, which if undetected cost unnecessary lives. So yes, I invite anyone who thinks of Planned Parenthood as an abortion facility to dare visit one. Step outside your comfort zone and open your eyes and minds.
Go ahead. Then we can talk.
But then again this is HL, a mostly right-wing forum where I'm wasting my time when I could get the same feed on FoxNews or any other right-wing media.
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