Part ll: Proposed drug treatment center in Allamuchy (continued)
iRun iRun... just an FYI. If you click on the "time" hyperlink to the right of a given thread, rather than the thread title, it takes you to the last post in the thread. I can't think of another reason why you would think that thread was too long unless you were scrolling through the entire thing every time. If not, then disregard.
ianimal Well, what they could build would be an upscale 55+. What is in front seems quite simple to me. Different clientele IMHO...
iJay We have not heard of any other offers for that property - and it has been on the market for a long time--
4catmom I don't think that having two 55 plus communities within an earshot makes much sense but should one come forward who knows. As 4catmom said: the property has had no other offers aside from ARS.
Darrin 55+ is no panacea either. Go ask other towns if it's really relieved their tax burden or not. Today people are having children later. I've got two different neighbors at 55 both with 3 kids in the schools. Plus all the same fire, police, and other services.
GC Normally 55+ housing means no residents under 18 and under which normally prevents them from attending school. But it looks like a lot of improvements with the roadway and utilities would be costly which explains no other offers. They could build little McMansions but I doubt they could fetch more than 500k while 2007 and prior it would be 700-800k more than likely. Anyway, look at it this way. Why is it the town's problem for it to be developed. It was an older mansion on a lot of land. So they did not get good offers, that's life...
"Normally 55+ housing means no residents under 18 and under which normally prevents them from attending school."
Have you every actually run one of those HOA's and worked with a lawyer to get something in your rules to be 55+? That's a common misconception. You can't tell people not to have kids, and you can't tell people their minor kids can't live with them.
All I know is that in Florida I have seen numerous cases where it has been enforced and of course there are exceptions. Not sure about enforcement in NJ...
I also thought that to be true in 55+ housing. Otherwise what would be the point of advertising it as such? My mother lives in a "regular" complex now and has lots of kids around all of the time. I thought a 55+ community would suit her better, but if kids would still be allowed it makes no sense for her to move. Does anyone know if the places in our area enforce the rules?
JRT Here is a good HUD link:
http://portal.hud.gov/hudportal/HUD?src=/program_offices/fair_housing_equal_opp/seniors
As far as enforcement I don't believe it is that strong in NJ. I do know personally of one community in Florida that found out about a teenager living full time in one of the units. The association give them 18 months to move out or be subject to fines. In this case they moved out...
Ianimal....thank you SO much regarding how to get to the end of those long threads. Been trying for a year! Your awesome.
sparksjbc1964 Clicking on the time of last post doesn't always work on my phone, so I appreciate the new post.
AllamuchyMom Iman, that does not work often on the Iphone. Anyone figure a way or AP to auto scroll to end of page on the iPhone. My search has either come up empty or complex solution. Ergonomic Apple user interface my sweet patooties.
strangerdanger It's a bit of a kludge but if you create a book mark on iPhone or iPad, you type in javascript for the URL. If you use the following, it takes you to the bottom of the page.
javascript:window.scrollTo%280%2Cdocument.body.scrollHeight%29%3b%0a
Christine SD, how I usually do it on the phone is I will search the page for "ago" and since the time stamp always says ago, if you go to previous on the search, it auto scrolls to the bottom...at least on my android.
The mayor is not allowed to attend the meetings and I am not sure he has offered up an official opinion on the matter as not to look like he is influencing the board.
darwin "The mayor is not allowed to attend the meetings and I am not sure he has offered up an official opinion on the matter as not to look like he is influencing the board."
Ah... if only that applied to the Federal government as well...
"Why is that Darwin?"
I'm guessing because it's a legislative meeting. Mayors lead the executive branch. If the council wants his input they can invite him to testify (or present their passed legislation for his review/signature).
Mark Mc. Rules of the process for this requested variance change require the Mayor to not be a part of the voting board. Nothing bad or illegal, just the rules of the process. The lawyer for the township stated the rules of this event at the beginning of the meeting last month.
Larry M Darst Something tells me Mayors have a way to express their opinions "off the record" more so then publically on the record.
Join us at the Allamuchy Township Meeting on May 26th at 7:30pm at the Allamuchy School, on Johnsonburg Rd. I believe this coming meeting with discuss some of the operational practices of the Rehab Center, but i am not 100% sure.
Yo did you know that there is a place like you are proposing in Mendham?
Two people escaped this place this weekend. They have now been caught.
They did some damage while on the run.
Bernie 
Bonv I don't have a horse in this race just yet - but I don't think what's proposed resembles Daytop --
Daytop in Mendham is for adolescents with substance abuse issues: http://www.daytopnj.org
Well I think they got one is this story. There were there for rehab, they left, they stole.
People are making this into something it's not. This is a zoning issue. Leave the emotional, political and ethical arguments aside.
BlazinMay 26th at 7:30 is another meeting. Regardless of what your opinion or position is, please attend this event.
Bumping this up as a reminder Thursday - Land Use Meeting Allamuchy School on Johnsonburg Road - 7:30PM.
JrzyGirl88 Daytop is a well-run facility, but people escape from these places. Fortunately, Mendham has a police force so the two escapees were apprehended quickly. Allamuchy has no police force.
Concerned I believe this Thursday evening will be the discussion of the operational aspects of the Rehab facility.
will be there - the doctor who seems to be their development/program director will be the main (possibly only if it runs as long as last time) witness............assuming I remember correctly -
DannyC My expertise isn't police protection or emergency services. But I suspect all areas of this nature will be addressed at these meetings.
Larry M Darst - Police protection and emergency services are the most important issues if the proposed rehab is allowed to be built here. And who will pay for this?
Go to the meeting DannyC voice your concerns to the Land Use Board. They need to know what concerns the residents have.
But remember that at this stage in the process questions must relate to the testimony and expertise of the witness....and voicing our opinions will come later........
Danny, I thought you were in the process of selling your property. Didn't you say you hired a Realtor in earlier posts.
kb2755 
Yeah People looking for houses are not looking deeply into these kind of things & if a rehab goes in it will be quite a while before its set up. Get s grip - has anyone been on the property? No one is scaling down a mountain side to get into someone's home. Do I want it? No but let's be realistic & not raise alarm that people will be out loose from the rehab. Go to the meeting Thursday & let your voice be heard!
DannyC , if you look at the website allamuchyrar.com, under updates it explains the format of the last meeting in great detail.
The intent of these meetings and the format moving forward was made very clear at the last meeting.
BrandyB Larry M Darst - Working with a reasonable group, allemuchyrar.com. As for your meetings, looks like a lot of listening, nothing to learn, and no possibility of voicing an opinion, but I'll waste my time by going anyway..
"As for your meetings, looks like a lot of listening, nothing to learn, and no possibility of voicing an opinion, but I'll waste my time by going anyway.."
nothing to learn? You will learn in details every aspect of their plans.
Voice an opinion? Yes the public has an opportunity to voice their opinions, there is a structure to the process that must be followed.
Waste your time? well yea for you it will be a waste because you have no interest in learning the FACTS and besides you are moving anyway so why do you care.
darwin - Why are you so apparently passionately in favor of this rehab? I just cannot stand any more bullsh:t from you or anyone else who negatively affects my current neighborhood and my property value if and when I sell.
darwin - Because some prospective buyers actually read this stupid forum.
-1 4catmom.
Can't wait for the headline: Rehab zoning OKd: Allamuchy residents run for hills!
(Oh, wait, Allamuchy is all hills just like the prospective rehab!)
And another headline for fun: Rehab rezoning plan turned down: HL returns to bathroom politics
First of all any medical facility like that is going to need approval of the NJ department of health and will have to jump through the various licensing and professional best practices organizations to be able to bill for their services - I honestly think this as low risk as any other residential treatment facility such as a nursing home or physical rehab facility. I am quite sure there will be measures put in place to ensure the safety of the patients and the community. This is most likely a moot issue
skippy skippy - Put it next to your residence (not in NJ). Going to the meeting in Allamuchy tomorrow? No skin in this game, pal.
Agreed I don't have skin in the game but you have to look at both sides of the issue and come to a conclusion
skippy, sorry, that's not the HL way. You're supposed to jump to conclusions based on unproven rumor and NEVER let the facts influence what you've already determined is the truth.
JerryG Join us at the Allamuchy Twp Meeting on May 26th at 7:30pm at the Allamuchy School, on Johnsonburg Rd. Busing will be supplied for this event if you park at the allamuchy municipal building. Yes, most of the evening will likely be a lot of listening. All part of the process for this important decision.
Interesting evening.... very few people from Warren County are expected to use the Rehab facility.
Larry M Darst - All the more reason to block this rehab: No benefits for Warren County, Allamuchy or Panther Valley residents, even if a rehab has benefits..
From a purely logical standpoint, if there's an addict from Warren County who needs treatment... does it make sense to put him in a facility at most 20 miles from his dealers?
But if we expect other communities to provide a safe place for our fallen children, should we not provide a safe place for theirs?
Danny C what if it were your child or grandchild suffering from addiction? Would you disown them n ship them to Icelands? Seriously grow a heart n never say never! You are way out of control with no sympathy for others!
I grew up a mile and a half from a major Pyschiatrict Hospital here in New Jersey in a major city. It not only did not effect my "mental being", it also never brought down the property value of my parents home.
Have some sympathy for the mentally ill. If the kidneys, heart, liver can go bad, so can the brain for it is also an organ of the body.
OriginalRealist OriginalRealist ---
A Psychiatric Hospital and a drug facility are 2 different animals.
Drug addicts break into your home and rob you ---- I know, it happened to me, in Hackettstown.
You say have sympathy for mentally ill people.
So do I.
But drug addicts are not mentally ill people.
Would you like to reimburse me for my loss????.
I don't want any drug facility near my home.
I think most people would agree.
Next meeting is June 23rd. Last night was a very eye opening experience. My favorite moment are the planned day trips into local areas for shopping, fishing, and other social activities. Hackettstown was mentioned as a really nice community. And yes, my family also has property in Hackettstown.
Really Happiest Girl? "not mentally ill" -once you live it you will see that most are you the drugs are a way of coping with the illness. Hence the reason why this is ALSO a center for those with eating disorders. They will be treated from all sides. This is not a "detox" that sends them on their way...
Lives in PV Day trips are all part of reintegrating, privileges when the patient shows enough improvement. It's all part of long term treatment. I know people who went through it. It's harder for them than it is for us speaking ill of our fellow human beings who need help,
Lives in PV -
No way. Being addicted to drugs is not the result of being mentally ill. Are you calling people who are addicted to cigarettes or alcohol mentally ill as well??
People addicted to these things are victims of circumstance.
Although difficult, many can give up cigarette or alcohol dependency --- but hard core drugs are more difficult because of the body's chemistry and dependency on them once addicted.
happiest girl:
"Is drug addiction a mental illness?
Yes, because addiction changes the brain in fundamental ways, disturbing a person's normal hierarchy of needs and desires and substituting new priorities connected with procuring and using the drug. The resulting compulsive behaviors that override the ability to control impulses despite the consequences are similar to hallmarks of other mental illnesses."
"Addiction changes the brain, disturbing the normal hierarchy of needs and desires. In fact, the DSM, which is the definitive resource of diagnostic criteria for all mental disorders, includes criteria for drug use disorders, distinguishing between two types: drug abuse and drug dependence."
Source:
https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/comorbidity-addiction-other-mental-illnesses/drug-addiction-mental-illness
Many young folks are disillusioned. You may even say depressed. When these things happen it takes little to get addicted to drugs...
Good turnout at the meeting, although not as many as the first night. While the meetings are long there is much to be learned by attending. Strong questions were asked the other night and I for one was amazed at how little research has actually been done on our community, or the rules/regulations for building a facility in NJ. I guess it is more important to build them fast (5 in 3 years) then actually research the areas chosen. While "it's a beautiful spot" is a nice sentiment, there has to be a better reason than that..
Next meeting June 23rd @ 7:30pm - Allamuchy School, Johnsonburg Road. Please mark your calendars.
Join us at the Allamuchy Twp Meeting on June 23rd at 7:30pm at the Allamuchy School, on Johnsonburg Road
This meeting should allow people to ask questions, it would be great to have people attend this event be a part of the decision process.
Hope to see you there.
As a reminder there is a PVPOA meeting tomorrow evening. Residents should attend to hear any updates or information our current Board has acquired or heard about in the last month. I encourage Everyone to attend this meeting as well as the Land Use Board meeting on Thursday. Please pass this information on to any neighbors who might not be aware of these meetings.
Just a reminder, the Allamuchy Land Use Board is holding a meeting tonight, 7/23, at 7:30 pm in the Allamuchy Elementary School gym on Johnsonburg Road to review the proposed D variance proposal submitted by Advanced Recovery Systems. It appears both the engineer and doctor will be back in attendance to answer questions from the residents before moving on to the next ARS expert to testify. Since residents do not get to vote on the proposal, these meetings are important to attend - these meetings are Allamuchy residents' best opportunity to ask questions, to understand all aspects of the proposal, and to have their voices heard.
charliedog4 Does anyone know how many members on the Land Use Board live outside Panther Valley?
goldfinch 
Dina I would hope that ALL of Allamuchy is represented on the land use board!!Not just the privileged in Panther Valley
Bug3 - Privileged? Hardly. We pay high fees to the PVPOA for nothing but abuse by the maintenance contactors, and the "architectural board", ineffective gate security, and no protective voice against measures like what is being railroaded in by the Land Use Board, destroying our property values. You are lucky if you are a free and independent Allamuchy home owner.
Danny speak for yourself. I have had nothing but good experience with various contractors and management. Further I've been to land use meetings including this evening's - haven't seen you there - so how do you know anything is being railroaded? There are a minimum of two more meetings ahead with plenty of opportunity for comment.
I thought you were listing your place for sale.........what happened? I wouldn't want to stay in a place that made me that unhappy.
4catmom - It's your neighborhood. Hopefully out of PV by September, saving lots of money. Seem to have locked in a price with the buyers, but these meetings do not help in a real estate sale. Can you understand that?
I wouldn't want to live in a community where you are told what you can and can't plant on your property!
I was unable to attend tonight, as I had a previous commitment. I was at the last two meetings and would love an update on what happened tonight!
Jersey Girl Jersey Girl - a lot of questions of the exec medical director - including many regarding statistics - many questions regarding incidents requiring a call to emergency services - success rate, patients leaving early, problems caused to the neighboring community by residents and more..........he had to make himself a long list of questions so he could get the answers for the next meeting - questions regarding staffing and security -
What's cool is that as an audience member, you can go up multiple times to ask questions.
Luca Does anyone know why the Mayor, the President of PV President Lynn, a incoming councilman and a couple of residents had a private meeting with Medical Director of Advanced Recovery hours before our town hall meeting in May? Why did the Mayor Publish the Wrong Date in the Panther Valley News Letter for the town hearing this month. Allamuchy Citizens wake up and start attending the meetings and ask questions. Our volunteer EMS and Fire Depart cannot handle a facility with 125 beds. Your safety and the well being of your family is at stake here. The medical directed stated they received 12 emergency calls in the facility in Florida. Our records show 160 calls; The Medical Director admitted under oath yesterday he made a mistake and it was 109 calls. ALLAMUCHY TOWNSHIP CANNOT HANDLE THESE CALLS.
Educate Your Self happiest girl - What really sucks about Panther Valley is that you cannot make any improvements that are on the outside of your structure, such as a cat door, electrical outlet or water hose hook-up, even if provided by a licensed contractor. They consider everything outside of your structure as their property, not yours. This also involves the plant police, who are incompetent subcontractors, not gardeners, who just want to cut everything they can as quickly as possible. So looking forward to getting out of here. The drug rehab proposal, which will probably be pushed through, is the last straw.
Danny,
I agree with you that the Rehab facility will eventually be approved. That said your comments regarding PV are for the most part wrong. I have lived here in a single family detached home for over 20 years. I replaced the roof, siding(changed colors), new windows, a deck and planted whatever I wanted wherever I chose to put them.
I needed permits from Allamuchy and PV was interested to make sure the colors were not potentially offensive or out of keeping with the look and feel of the neighborhood. Approvals took less than a month. My neighbors were happy to see the improvements. Rules and regulations are there to protect everyone. Just look at those neighborhoods that have no rules or they are not enforced so people can do whatever they want. This leads to real problems and loss of property value.
Good luck with your move.
I second the response by educate your self- we need answers to these questions:
Does anyone know why the Mayor, the President of PV President Lynn, a incoming councilman and a couple of residents had a private meeting with Medical Director of Advanced Recovery hours before our town hall meeting in May?
Why did the Mayor Publish the Wrong Date in the Panther Valley News Letter for the town hearing this month?
I wonder about the meeting as well...however the mayor has nothing to do with our monthly newsletter. Look inside the front page and you'll see who the editor and others are.......They are all PV residents. Nonetheless it's interesting that such an error was made..........and similarly interesting that this meeting took place.
I stand corrected. They mayor has a column in the Panther which had the incorrect date.
He is our misfortune! I wonder who he answers to - surely not us..............
John Egan - I don't want bump up this thread, but I must contest your assertions. There was a change in ownership and management of the PVPOA a few years ago, and not for the better. I suspect that your improvements were done before that. Even a simple job like installing paving stones, mostly to help my neighbors have a dry place to walk during inclement weather has taken two months so far to get approval by the PVPOA. One bureaucratic pain in the A$$!
There was no change in ownership and management. You haven't lived here that long. You seem to enjoy jumping from topic to topic either to complain or to offer to cook feasts that never seem to happen. Enough already.
And this thread isn't about you . It is a place for discussion of the drug treatment center with actual facts and information so homeowners can attend the meetings and educate themselves and eventually express their opinions.
This particular thread is specifically about the Proposed Drug Treatment Center in Allamuchy, which will affect all residents of the Township one way or another, not just those in Panther Valley. It is important that residents attend each meeting to hear the facts, ask their questions, and express their concerns. Please do not forget that each month PVPOA holds their BOT meetings where any comments, questions, concerns can be discussed not just about ARS but any matter that is important to them. Water problems, no responses to work orders, road issues, etc. Up until the last few months there have been very few people in attendance at these meetings including my own sporadic attendance. If nothing else this situation has made me see that it is important to attend our community meetings. If we, the residents, do not hold town board members, PVPOA board members and PV staff accountable for things that we do not feel are up to par, or that we think are not being done in a timely fashion, then shame on us. Show the board members of Allamuchy Government and PVPOA board members that our opinions count. Thank you for letting me rant, I now return you to the Rehab thread.
4catmom - Last words are all yours. Out of here. Two last words from me - propaganda and CYA for your propaganda.
There is a documentary called THE BUSINESS OF RECOVERY. This is available on Amazon & Apple itunes. This is a well reviewed movie with several awards.
www.thebusinessofrecovery.com
This is an email sent out by allamuchy residents against rezoning. This is very concerning! Please Read;
Greetings on behalf of the members of the Allamuchy Residents Against Rezoning. The next public hearing on Advanced Recovery Systems' application to put a drug rehab facility at the entrance to Panther Valley will be held on Thursday, July 28th, 2016 at 7:30 PM at the Allamuchy School on Johnsonburg Road. PLEASE ATTEND! We know the last place you want to be on a Thursday evening is sitting in a gymnasium, but we need your help.
There is much to report. At the last public hearing we heard more from Dr. Wandler, the Chief Medical Officer of Advanced Recovery Systems. Under cross examination, Dr. Wandler corrected his prior testimony regarding the number of emergency service calls we should expect from this facility from 12 a year to more than 125!! We believe this number will be much higher based upon the call evidence we have gathered. We also learned that the security measures used by Advanced Recovery will NOT prevent a patient from leaving the facility. Dr. Wandler admitted that drugs occasionally make it into their facilities. The potential detrimental effects on our community are very concerning.
At the next hearing, we will be given the opportunity to cross examine Mr. Finelli, Advanced Recovery's civil engineering expert. We believe this will be quite informative. We will also hear from an expert as to the benefits that this facility will provide. We know that this is the middle of the summer, and we are all busy. However, we ask that you attend. Please invite your neighbors, regardless of their stance on this issue.
Two closing thoughts: 1- Knowledge is power. 2- If you don't attend now, you can't complain later. Thank you for help.
Your neighbors,
The Members of The Allamuchy Residents against Rezoning
LH The difficult part is attending every meeting of this decision process. Overtime it is easy to lose interest in listening to compensated speakers who do not live in Allamuchy. It is possible there are two to three meetings left before a decision is reached. This upcoming meeting, Thursday, July 28th, 2016 at 7:30 PM at the Allamuchy School on Johnsonburg Road is critical for members of the community to attend.
It should be noted the community will finally be allowed to voice their own opinions over the next two to three meetings. Some people have attended the meetings over the past several months listening and listening and listening, waiting for moment the microphone will be opened to opinions without the limitations of legal restrictions.
As members of Allamuchy, Hackettstown, and Warren County we all have a vested interest in these meetings. Regardless of your personal opinion on this matter, please attend the next meet on Thursday, July 28th, 2016 at 7:30 PM at the Allamuchy School on Johnsonburg Road.
I'll be there - but not will bells on yet - saving those for the meeting when the public can speak express their opinions...
Larry, CVS in hackettstown took over 2 years of monthly meetings to reach a decision. Do not loose interest! When the public looses interest and stops going is when the developer gets exactly what they want.
Also don't forget to attend the PVPOA meeting on Wednesday night to learn what information they may have obtained with regard to this matter.
Larry M. Darst - Will the next meeting be video taped and then posted somewhere on the net? It would be good if it were, especially for those local homeowners who cannot attend but have a stake in the issue.
No DannyC, the meetings are not videotaped. You can however go to the town hall and request transcripts from the meetings. There may or may not be a fee involved.
JrzyGirl88 - Working nights, I am unable to attend, but glad to pay whatever the transcript fees are required for such an important issue. How hard would it be to make a video and post it? PVPOA meetings on this issue included, if the PVPOA is involved at all?
DannyC, you should direct your questions directly to the Township Land Use Board Committee and the PVPOA.
DannyC that is a great idea you should contact the Township Attorney or the Chairwoman of the Land Use Board (info available at Allamuchy Township website) and ask them how to go about getting that set up. Or possibly PVPOA board president and ask them to video it and put on PVPOA website for those who can't attend.
BrandyB - Have done that, will do it again. Sick of beaurocratic, greedy, money-making runarounds from "compensated speakers" that waste my time and effort. Better off signing a petition with The Allamuchy Residents against Rezoning. Not doing this alone. Suggest that others do the same. Read up on how this has stemmed from Obamacare, but as a new commercial venture, not in the interests of residents..
DannyC if you have written to PVPOA and asked them to video tape the meetings I can tell you for a fact that your letter was NEVER discussed at the last four board meetings. At least during the public portions of the meeting. And I know for sure that it was not requested during any of the Land Use Meetings (again during the public portions of said meetings) You should definitely attend the meeting on Wednesday to personally see if they can accommodate your request. While video of the meetings would be good to get the information out there it is really in the best interest of the public to attend the meetings, show your concern, ask your questions, support the ARAR who have been working hard doing research, attending every meeting, getting petitions signed, talking to all the neighbors, business owners, environmental groups, passing out flyers, putting up signs etc.
JrzyGirl88 - Don't have the time or inclination for all of that, and don't care a bit any more. Not a politician, and if you are not interested in properly informing the public, then so be it, it's all on you. Same for you, 4catmom, who has been nothing but a harassment to me. "passing out flyers, putting up signs etc." --- forget it! I signed the petition, that's it. So easy to get angry with you people, but trying not to.
Danny, harassment by 4catmom who has asked legit questions? Getting angry about people giving you helpful information on how to go about addressing your concerns?
Most who've a new lease on life have a much better attitude..
positive positive - Still have significant pain, many treatments, that might persist or get worse from my disease very soon. Bad attitude. What do you expect? Sorry to change the subject from the proposed drug rehab. Could use some good pain-killing drugs myself right now.
DannyC I'm not a politician either!! BUT I HAVE been at every meeting and know first hand what is going on. I've spoken to tons of people regarding this, put in hours upon hours of research to help the ARAR after working a full time job and commuting a hundred miles a day. Attended conference calls, and information gathering sessions on weekends, stood outside at each meeting talking to residents and getting more signatures on the petition, passed out flyers, contacted press, put up signs and made some really nice friendships during the process. I haven't stood around waiting for others to do the work, so tell me what have you done? Oh yes signed a petition, that I contacted you about by the way. Now tell me again who is to blame for you not having the information??? You are unbelievable!
Thursday is the day. Makes a lot of sense to attend these meetings. In my humble opinion, this property would have made a great solar farm for Allamuchy. It would be great if everyone could benefit from this opportunity.
I am surprised Spot Zoning is allowed. Yes, I know this is not a rezoning request from residential to commercial. But I do know a business is requesting to install a commercial property inside of a residential area.
When will anyone ask what happens to 100 people living on top of that hill during a blizzard? Imagine if the power goes out for several days. These poor people have no cars to remove them off of the hill and into hotels so they do not freeze to death. If the answer is back-up generators, then the noise level of testing these generators on a weekly/monthly basis will easily wake up residents living near this place.
OK, I am done venting.
Don't forget! Land Use Board Meeting TOMORROW 7/28! We need as many people to show up as possible at each meeting to show them that Allamuchy cares!
Ask a question!
Regardless of your position on this matter, please show up.
If this meeting offered free beer, I suspect it would be standing room only :-)
Signing a petition?? It's funny because if I had to guess all of you are the first ones on local police Facebook pages talking about how the drug addicts are the cause of the crimes happening locally. Or how if they could only get help things would be better, and how it's so sad to see this happening. So It's okay that you SAY they need help, just as long as it's not in your back yard, right? Sure drugs can make their way into the facility, the same way it makes it into schools and even some of your homes without you knowing. Sure the individuals can leave, they aren't prisoners. If this were talks of a different treatment center no one would bat an eye. It's this kind of thinking that prevents people from seeking help sooner. This thinking just perpetuates the stigma attached to addiction and mental health. These individuals are sick, and as earth shattering as it may be to some of you, some people want help. It's selfish of you to not want people to have a second chance and live the life they deserve. Signing this petition is preventing the change all of you so desperately say you want for this community.
Smiley Larry M. Darst and Smiley - Well, there is at least one person's opinion on this issue on this thread. Sorry for not being able to attend tonight, but looking forward to any and all summaries of the discussions. Thanks for your efforts.
There is nothing wrong with people who have opinions that are diametrically opposed to each other. My hope is people actually do attend the meeting tonight and show support for their beliefs.
A very good documentary on this topic is "The Business of Recovery". For just a few dollars anyone can watch this movie.
If you believe this center is for the people of local community or New Jersey, then you have not been attending the monthly meetings.
You just had to be there...................I have no words for tonight's main "witness".....
Someone else will, I'm sure report thoroughly.........I just had to leave...........
The witness did exactly what she was hired to do take up time and bore us enough to not attend any more meetings.
goldfinch - Right on! Read the dialogue on allamuchyrar.com
Larry M. Darst - Why do you still appear to support this propaganda? Meetings to hear this garbage are a meaningless waste of time.
if the public doesn't show up then the board will think the public doesn't care about if it goes in or not. And thus will approve it. Staying home and complaining about it on HL alone will do nothing. But that's ok, you are moving anyway, right?
Darwin - Yes, but when will the monopolistic propaganda stop, and when will we be allowed to shout out about what a bad idea the drug rehab is? Doing this, if possible, as a promise to the new owners, who are very concerned about it.
and when will we be allowed to shout out about what a bad idea the drug rehab is?
never, you will never be allowed to shout out. you will have time to clearly speak your concerns, but you haven't gone to any meetings so you will never get that chance.
When are you having your open house, my mom is looking to move into PV?
Darwin - Sorry to your mom, but it's a done deal already. Two more meetings and I intend to shout out against the drug rehab...loudly if necessary.
The public needs to show up to voice their opinion, concerns , etc. These meetings are all about the board making a final decision on allowing a land use variance. There has been arguments from both sides, for and against the variance. There is compelling data that shows the type of burden these types of facilities put on local police and EMS. There is also information on how typical rehabs are run. It is not about whether or not rehab is good or bad. Anyone that speaks up in front of the board will be expected to do it in a courtroom like setting. I have been to every meeting so far and the process has been run in a very professional manor.
We have a lot of great residents in Allamuchy and for the most part, everyone has carried themselves in a way that we should be proud.
Dear DannyC,
I am very surprised at your comments. Remember when you and I had dinner together? You never once commented so boldly about my beliefs. Now hiding behind DannyC on a blog. This type of behavior is called Trolling. You are not authorized to speak on my beliefs since you clearly have no idea what I believe in. If you wish to have an open discussion, meet me anytime/anywhere. Normally I do not have a battle of the wits with an unarmed opponent. For you, I will make an exception.
Personally I value the freedom of speech more than I value winning or losing an argument. If I am in favor or against the Rehab center is my choice.
From what I observed on HL, it seems your beliefs depend on which way the wind is blowing.
To me you are nothing more than the southern exposed body part of a north bound moose.
Regards,
Larry M Darst
Larry M. Darst - Wow! Where did that come from? Was it the dinner at the Panther Pub for the first meeting of Panther Valley Social Group? All I can remember is that you might have been one of the nice guys there, but I could be wrong. Now you are calling me a moose's ass. Cute. BTW, I have ALWAYS been against the drug rehab proposal in Allamuchy/Panther Valley. No inconsistency here.
4catmom - when will you ever get off my back?
DannyC, you do know that you can submit a letter to your board expressing your concerns if you cannot make a meeting right? Well at least I think you can?
I think you have lost a lot of followers simply because you "express your feelings" on HL but don't walk the walk for the talk you talk.
There are many measures you can take if you are unable to make a meeting including having someone else speak for you and having a signed statement from you, or like I stated above.
But....you're moving, so why do you still care?
Darrin - As stated to others, the new owners are very concerned about the proposed drug rehab in their area, and I promised them that I would try to fight it all the way. Thanks for your advice on how to do that. Cannot close until this issue is resolved.
Wait a minute you're telling me you sold your house but the new owners are not going to close unless you are able to get the rehab project shut down? Which a decision is months away. So you're closing will be in limbo until then?
There's so much bs in that I can't handle it.
Welcome to the club, Darwin.......he doesn't even own it........need boots... Hip boots
What lawyer would accept a contract based on a third party event out of your hands? For all practical purposes, that's a non-sale.
positive and GC - The sale is pending, based upon the next two meetings on the drug rehab. Six weeks.
4catmom - What do you know that I do not?
So you are telling me the buyers are not out looking at other homes? Or you can not take other offers? You will be in attorney review for 6 weeks?
And whose to say there will even be a vote in the Sept meeting? Also I've been told that even if the land use board denies the variance the rehab could sill sue which would drag this out for months and months if not years
I got cursed out? Lol I must have missed it. Too bad I Always enough a good meltdown haha
Danny, it's a studio not prime property. I highly doubt any prospective buyer would have that contingency and patience, unless it's a family member?
Wow! You're even lying about that. Guess I'm losing it and seeing things...
Get some help Danny, seriously.
positive - WTF are you talking about? I was talking about a pending real estate sale. You? All you seem to be able to say is that I am a liar about everything. Sick of it! Geese, get out of my life!...before I really start cursing.
Ok so lets start with the "hired" to do so part regarding the last witness testimony. If you were at the meeting you would know that the witness was asked directly if she were paid for her testimony, promised employment or compensated in any way. Her response was NO. One of the few responses that was actually coherent and on point (IMHO). Wasting everyone's time is in fact true, making people not want to come to upcoming meetings definitely true. BUT it is our obligation as residents, one way or another, either for the facility or against the facility to attend the meetings and get all necessary information. And also to show the Board that this is important and matters to our Community.
As BrandyB stated everyone has an opportunity to speak at the meetings, you need to be composed and get your ideas and thoughts out in a clear, concise manner. If you do not, not only does the Board not listen to what you have to say, the other people in the room also tune you out and you just lost your opportunity to provide valuable information. At the last meeting if you had questions you wished to ask, you were provided with a specific area to sit in, so that the question period could proceed in a timely fashion.
DannyC when you are ready to ask your questions of each witness, you should have them written down, the town lawyer gives you ample time and has not started to limit anyone as far as time goes, since everyone has been reasonable. You need to ask direct questions specifically of the testifying witness and only to what he can answer (ex. don't ask the drug expert how many steps will be in the building). Try not to ask questions that have already been asked and answered. I just thought of something that could be very valuable - You eluded to the fact the other day on a different thread that you had some testing done on our water and it was not up to par, you might want to introduce that information at the next meeting since the Facility would be utilizing the water, it might be just what we need to get them to not want to build in our town and if they pull out everyone's problem would be solved.
While I'm sure the Board wants this wrapped up ASAP, I know the residents of Allamuchy do, there is no exact time frame to when it will end. It could end next month, it could go on for several more.
GC, not that I'm defending the statements, but lawyers accept contracts based on third party events all the time. Probably the most common being the mortgage commitment followed by the sale of the purchases house... But this one is probably a stretch...
Brendan Good news, this is the week to attend the Land Use Board Meeting. Yes, you can attend and ask questions. Yes, you can be a vital part of the community.
Please be the person who attends the meetings and shows support for what you believe in.
One rumor to add to this blog. I have heard about groups gathering funds for legal action to prevent the zoning change. So even if the board passes the request, it appears this battle will last a lot longer than 2016.
Personally I believe this property should be a solar farm and help pay for our electric bills. At least the entire community would benefit.
Please attend the meeting this Thursday at 7:30pm.
"Personally I believe this property should be a solar farm and help pay for our electric bills. At least the entire community would benefit."
If the property was developed as a solar farm, how would it help pay for YOUR electric bills? Would you expect to get free rehab services if the currently proposed development was approved? Solar farms benefit for-profit corporate interests, not adjacent homeowners.
Plus, I believe that the State is only allowing solar farms in "brownfields" developments going forward. The days of putting them in agricultural lands have past, from what I've heard.
"If the property was developed as a solar farm, how would it help pay for YOUR electric bills?"
Would like to know the answer to that question as well.
Rebecka If a solar farm is developed by the community. The electricity would be sold to the Electric Utility. The revenues would be distributed into the local residence.
Yes, I realize this means purchasing the land. This also means purchasing the solar equipment. Just realize solar farms have helped communities all over the USA and are still being installed as of today.
Is it a great idea? I really don't know. But at the very least these ideas should be considered as an option before reaching a final decision on this property.
Isn't the land being sold for north of $3million? And how much would the solar equipment cost? So you want to add How MUCH more debt to a town that already has millions in debt? So your taxes will go up thousands a year so your electric bill be go down $50/month. Yup sounds like a good financial decision.
With all due respect, Larry, you seem to have as solid an understanding of solar farming as you do rehab facilities.
I do not know much about either subject but I do know the crime rate near solar farms and the calls to local police and EMS has to be close to zero vs. the high rate of calls to rehab centers around the country.
I believe what Larry is saying is that there are many other uses for this land that should be considered.
Everyone should attend these meetings. It is evident that the Applicant ARS , is having trouble providing accurate information regarding their existing facilities. This makes me extremely nervous about how they are going to run and operate a safe facility close to our residential homes. I would not want to put one of my family members in one of their facilities. Their key witnesses have no idea about what is really going on in their own properties. Pretty scarey.
BrandyB want to back the statement "the high rate of calls to rehab centers around the country." with some data!
All I can say is would rather have a Drug rehab place then those solar panels, especially if my taxes would have to pay for it.
Christine , this information was obtained by attending the land use board meeting. All acquired by the ARAR. Here is their website
http://www.allamuchyrar.com/updates.html.
In my opinion, safety for my family and my community would be much more important than spending more money on taxes.
Christine ~ BrandyB is not speaking out of turn with her statement "the high rate of calls to rehab centers". There have been several OPRA requests to various county agencies around the country. The Center that would be the closest in size to the one being built in Allamuchy (the one here is proposed to be larger) is in Umatilla, Florida. Dr. Wandler, Chief Medical Officer, the representative ARS sent to give us information about their faciities, TESTIFIED that the facility received 12 "emergency service" calls a year. Records prove that between Jan 2015 and April 2016 there were 20 Police Related Requests, 77 Ambulance Requests and 12 Other Requests (Florida Baker Act, requires police to transport patients to psychiatric treatment). As you can see this is much more that 12 per year - when Dr. Wandler was presented with this information, his response was "Oh that's a lot". Do you not think that this is information their "expert" witness should have been truthful about? Considering that Allamuchy does not have a police department, we share an ambulance squad with Green Twp and our Fire Department are volunteers, this is important information that the Land Use Board should have been made aware of. ARS has an obligation to the residents of this town to be truthful and forthcoming with all requested information in order for us to make an informed decision and so far all we have heard was a bunch of lies, non-answers that dance around questions and nonsense testimony.
As a fixed facility under DOH guidelines they will need to contact a private ambulance service unless it is a life threatening emergency - it's considered an Interfacility transfer.
Lots of opinions on this blog. It would be nice to see physical bodies at this event. Whatever is said on this site is good for conversation but will have no impact on the decision process if the comments are not submitted at the meeting.
Make no mistake, this event will have a very long lasting impact to the community regardless to the decision. For or against the requested changes, people need to get to this meeting.
Larry, can you explain the long lasting impact to the community if they don't get the zoning variance.
SMH no I do not live around it BUT I have said it before and will say it again they are welcome to build next to me. Not only that I wouldn't be one of those NIMBY neighbors. This is needed.
I still do not see data holding up BrandyB's statements.
iChristine - IMHO, as a non-resident of the area where the proposed rehab would be built, you have NO RIGHTS to influence the proposal. Your opinions are irrelevant.
IMHO I do have a right as it is in the state of NJ! In which I pay taxes to. I have a right to my opinion as you do. You don't have to agree or disagree. But if you are stating facts please back them up.
iChristine - The only fact I can back up is that outsider people like you are invading my neighborhood and messing up my real estate ventures.
Then move DannyC. Stop threatening that you will stop making up stories that you will just DO IT. Problem solved. Oh and I pray that your loved ones never need such a facility.
iChristine - Trying my best to get away from people like you. But it is dependent upon a house sale. If you really want me out, back off from supporting the drug rehab.
One would think that a long lasting impact if they do not get the variance is that Allamuchy made a big step in keeping to it's original plan of staying a residential and farm community. It's pretty basic.
iChristine, my info above is based on the data that the public can request at any time through OPRA requests , as JrzyGirl88 has stated. This information has been submitted to the board at the public meetings. The experts from ARS have lied about this data.
DannyC I never said I wanted YOU out! You did......many times. I personally love this area and am currently trying to stay here. If you think its better anywhere else you are quite mislead.
Christine - Are you the same as iChristine? If so, look four posts back. "Then move DannyC".
Yes one in the same DannyC......BUT go back to several different threads....you said you are selling...oh wait sold....then you said it was dependent on this property....so yeah you said it....let me repeat....."Then move DannyC. Stop threatening that you will stop making up stories that you will just DO IT. Problem solved. Oh and I pray that your loved ones never need such a facility."
Have a beer and relax!!! I personally prefer Long Island ice tea!! Goodnight
Larry M. Darst, from kb2755 - "Larry, can you explain the long lasting impact to the community if they don't get the zoning variance" Is it not a viable alternative to leave things the way they are now?
Danny why are you busting on Larru so much. You do realize he is against the rehab right? And unlike you he actually shows up to the meeting and voices his concern. Even did an interview with the news about his opposition
DannyC, I believe BrandyB answered the question which was exactly what I thought the answer would be. Everything will remain as it is today if the variance is not granted. I thought the way he made the statement it might have meant something else, thus the question.
Darwin - It is Larry M. Darsk's meetings, where he is pushing to fill the seats with non-Allamuchy/Panther Valley residents, drug facility advocates like you. I suspect that there may be some money involved here for Larry's efforts, but I could be wrong.
Where do you get that he is pushing nonresidents to show up? He is just posting the time and date of the meetings and encouraging people to attend. Where is he singling out nonresidents to show up?
Man you're so strange.
DannyC you are out of line with your comments and you make no sense with your rationale. Go spend your time trying to sell your condo instead of making nonsense remarks.
DannyC, you need to take a break. From what I see, all Larry M is doing is raising awareness of the meeting. A lot of people sit back and post their opinions on here but unless you are at the meetings, the postings are meaningless. For or against, people should show up.
Accusing someone of making money on this ?? Wow, a new low DannyC.
Oh DannyC you are sooo wrong!! What makes you think Larry is being paid? I am not involved in any of these organizations and even I know that's not true. Man you really need to step away from the forum for a while and clear your mind. Anyone who pays taxes in the State of NJ, Warren County also have a right to know or have a say what comes in there if the variances have to be changed.
Wake up, all. "Make no mistake, this event will have a very long lasting impact to the community". What? Not intimidated by this unnecessary "urgency". And money rules everything, in case you forgot.
holy crap!
dude his "urgency" is that there are only a few more meeting about this before a vote. so come and speak up now.
Again he is against the rehab and wants people to show up to voice their concern so how could he be getting paid to bring nonresidents in that are pro rehab. Man I can't even follow your logic, my head hurts
At least he is going to the meeting unless you, who even promised to go but have yet to attend. Guess your promise doesn't hold much value.
Danny - you don't belong on this thread and maybe not on the forum............you are nasty to people, you never tell the truth, and you misconstrue what you read here..........
I sincerely hope you are in fact moving for your sake and ours.
And by the way - you are beyond off base about Larry.............so please - be quiet.
Oh - and you are not listed in the PV directory............It appears your daughter owns the unit. So enough of the bs.
Perhaps a commission from the land owner for selling the property for any purpose, drug rehab, solar farm or some other useless or harmful scheme? Right now, the ARS invasion is on the table, the only thing people are talking about. Or is it about becoming a community organizer, like someone else we know?
4catmom - Amazing investigative reporting. Do you also know who holds the deed, irrespective of PVPOA's directory listing? You are one meddling B!TCH!
Calling names shows your true colors DannyC. You have lost respect from most of us on this forum. Nasty man!!
iChristine - Don't need your respect. Just want to get things done that will benefit the neighborhood and me, specifically, defeating the drug rehab proposal.
+100000000 4cat!
Danny, how dare you curse at people and call them names..I feel sorry for your daughters and your grandchildren. If they only knew what you post....
Funny how you have no empathy for people with addictions when apparently you are an addict as well..a pathological liar.
You could probably benefit from this proposed rehab..
Larry M. Darst - "To me you are nothing more than the southern exposed body part of a north bound moose." So this is how you try to recruit people for attendance at your ARS propaganda meetings? Does not work for me.
The meeting is tomorrow night at 7:30pm at Allamuchy School............If the subject is of interest or concern to you, come out...........become part of the process
I suspect his zucchini and tomato plants will be attacked by a pack of starving varmints tomorrow and therefore won't be able to attend the meeting.
WOW!!
I have never had so many emails from posters, stalkers and readers that AGREE with me about DannyC. A first for me!
Lets not feed him anymore and maybe he will disappear. No one comment on his posts. No reaction=no response.
Over and out.
kb2755 - No zucchini, tomatoes, or starving varmints here. But I did see a big black bear two days ago, though, six feet from my sliding glass doors to the patio.
On the meeting, my new buyers want to get involved, at least as observers, to the nonsense going on, so they will attend. Me, I am apparently so hated by everyone that I am not sure if I am ready for any more verbal abuse. We'll see.
I could only imagine if the land use variance was for a prison. A rehab would look pretty good then, and this forum would implode even more!
I have bit my bottom lip for too long and refused to get involved in this thread! But I just cannot take it anymore, so here are my views. Take it however you want too!
A. The drug rehab is for people who want to get better! It isn't going to bring gangs from inner cities into our town! Learn/educate yourselves about Mental Issues! Many people with mental issues have been denied Healthcare, so they self medicate by using drugs or alcohol! Ck out www.nami.org
If the heart or all other organs can go bad, remember the brain is also an organ and can go bad as well. Stop being hypocrites! Imagine if your child fell into this and there were no facilities to help him/her (because no one wants these facilities in their communities!) Stop being snobs!
Btw! I am grateful my kids are fine, but I educated myself regarding "mental issues" and "drug abuse", because that is who I am and I care about others!
B. Danny C if this issue bothers you so much show up at a meeting/state your reasoning why you are anti the drug rehab! Posting on HL, attacking others, calling them names only makes you look like a fool. I pray no one continues to engage you on HL for your posts sorry are worthless!
Good read!
http://www.nami.org/Blogs/NAMI-Blog/August-2016/Celebrities-Give-Mental-Health-and-Substance-Abuse
TODAY is a good day for a meeting, 7:30pm tonight in Allamuchy. Yes, I plan to be there.
Please attend these events. It is worth your time to be involved.
A good documentary to watch is THE BUSINESS OF RECOVERY. Both Amazon and Itunes sells this film. This documentary has been given several awards. It is a rather sad and depressing documentary of this industry. If you want to avoid paying for the documentary, I suspect a bootleg version can be located on the internet for free.
And a good article to read is here:
http://www.njherald.com/20160825/addiction-recovery-program-already-producing-results
yankeefan Careful Danny, Christine is getting emails from stalkers!!!!! Sooooooo many of them too!
This Thursday at 7:30 pm is the next meeting in Allamuchy. Likely there is 2 to 3 meetings left in this process. I am a firm believer that everyone should voice their opinion to allow a proper evaluation to take place.
Your voice matters to the Land Use Board when stated at the meeting.
Personally i have spoke at the last two meetings.
On the Panther Valley Community Facebook page it says the meeting was cancelled but does not say why or when it will be re-scheduled. Is this true?
I just saw the same announcement, below is the message.
The Advanced Recovery Land Use Board meeting scheduled for Thursday, September 22, 2016, has been cancelled.
There is no explanation of why.
From the Mayor's page for October, 2016, on the Mendham Borough website:
"Mr. Merkt continues to work with the management of Daytop Village to assist in curtailing the number of calls to the facility where our first responders feel vulnerable to aggressive behavior by some of the facilities residents. It appears that residents of the facility now include a mix of patients from suburban areas and some of the state’s larger city and metropolitan areas. It is critical to the Borough’s first responders that they feel safe when answering calls to the facility and their safety will not be compromised."
OnTheEdge Daytop Village has nothing to do with the proposed center in Allamuchy. Completely different company, patient population and management. Not even sure why you posted that.
We all know why it was posted. Our drug problem is bemoaned on multiple HL threads. Yet a treatment facility, of which there are far too few, is attacked, opposed and shunned. These facilities are vital and the hysteria is disappointing. Security issues are manageable and negotiable. And human benefits aside, Allamuchy has a large debt to service and ultimately repay, and the taxes the facility will pay are not inconsequential.
I was not attacking, opposing or shunning the facility. I posted it because it involved first responders in Mendham. If first responders wouldn't be involved in Allamuchy that's great.
If in fact responders are required I assume they would bill for their services as is done by ambulance and in many cases fire departments today. I'm reminded of the Allamuchy resistance to purchasing Rutherford Hall. Vitriolic and hysterical. Many of the most vocal opponents now make a nice living from managing events there. Many more are very happy with the educational experience their children are receiving.
Any idea what direction this is going to go? I was able to attend the first meeting but have not been able to after. I see the pros and cons of each scenerio.
There is a meeting this coming Thursday October 27th. More testimony will be heard with regard to the variance request. Now is a good time to attend the meetings, hear the rest of the testimony, ask your questions, voice your concerns/opinions.
My question was to those that have been attending. Are there minutes/summaries from the meeting? I can't attend the meetings. Seems like there was a lot of noise about this and it has died down a bit. I am curious as a resident but hoping to seek out info aside from the meetings.
@ LIves in PV you can request a copy of the minutes from the meeting from Town Hall, speak to the Land Use Secretary.
Tomorrow night (Tuesday 11/29/2016) the meeting is at 7:30pm at the Allamuchy school. This meeting will allow people of the area to voice their opinion. This is the 1st time the local residents will be allowed to give their opinions on this matter. Please attend this event. The time for voting by the board is very close.
Please attend this event.
Next meeting which will probably include the board voting on this...4th Thursday in January at the firehouse
Important that we All Attend! All Allamuchy Residents should have their voices heard! The decision/vote to place a Drug Treatment Center in very close proximity to an Elementary School, Senior Living Community and Residential Neighborhood, may occur on Thursday January 26th. Please be present at the meeting to voice your concerns, The Meeting is scheduled for Thursday, January 26th at 7:30 p.m. at the Allamuchy Township Firehouse. Please note: The meeting is not being held at the elementary school this time.
I'll be there - but I believe the time for public comment ended at the last meeting.
This is the time both attys will present their summaries. I presume the board will then vote.
I look forward to this passing. If there is anyone astute on the Board, they will have thought to include a few rehab scholarships per year for local residents in need as part of the rezoning deal.
The broader local economy needs this. Allamuchy needs the tax revenue. The property owner needs a buyer. And those struggling with addiction *everywhere* need the additional beds.
Those who oppose this are both woefully uninformed and pitifully self-interested. IMHO of course.
If they haven't provided enough parking as well as proper traffic access and security, there are a few different reasons why it could be denied. It might mean they would have to scale it way back to get approval.
I also understand some people are for a treatment center, but not this particular company.
Based on 2 girls who died this past week from addiction I would think we would want to give it a chance. One was 30 who was found in the Quickchek bathroom in Washington and another 17/18 year old.
This area has lost a lot of young people to addiction. Something has to change.
Nosila 
Darleen The email I received from the group 'allamuchy residents against rezoning' did state that the meeting on Thursday January 26fth at the allamuchy firehouse, may be the last chance residents have to voice their concerns, as this may be the last meeting before a decision is made. I'm for drug rehabilitation facilities, as I believe all people are. The issue is that it should not be placed down the road from an elementary school or residents, (Especially a senior living community). This will have a huge impact on our community. In prior meetings, it was discussed about the hundreds of calls this facility will generate to 911, police dispatch. Allamuchy does not have a police department. This alone is cause for alarm, for many reasons.
Please do your own research of what this facility will bring to allamuchy. And please speak out to protect our community.
Here's an article which should put your mind at ease, LH.
http://hub.jhu.edu/magazine/2016/spring/nimby-drug-treament-centers/
GC, I would suspect those (and other potential concerns) would be part of a negotiation with the company, but they would not provide a legal basis for denying the application.
This is a for profit company - stating it's not for either teens or anyone under court order to attend rehab. It, from everything said, is not designed for local teens who are sadly addicted. It will be private pay or insurance so it is not clear how it will help those most in need in the area. Attending would be the best way to learn a bit about it and the company wanting to build it.
Thanks for the article Rebecka. You will find a combination of articles that support drug treatment facilities and those that oppose. As 4catmom' stated you have to be present at the meetings to really hear how ill prepared, they are in answering any questions regarding this facility. In addition they are not forth coming, with details of security, traffic or any of residents concerns. Please attend the meeting, before drawing conclusions about what we are in for. And once the facility is there, it will be too late, to reconsider. Keep in mind this is a well suited big business coming in (looking to further line their pockets).
What are the numbers for the expected tax benefits this place would bring to Allamuchy?
D-ManPV Compared to 40 additional homes projected to be built on this site, no addt'l tax benefit. Also if facility fails could be sold to a non-profit which would leave homeowners paying more in taxes.
I don't see an issue with this. We can't see the building...traffic impact will be minimal as the residents will not have cars....Sadly there is a need for these facilities and it gives our loved ones and local option.
If you research these treatment centers a common core concept is to take the individuals out of their current environment as part of the treatment plan. A "local" option is not the best option...
"A "local" option is not the best option..."
This is misinformation. There are many factors that play into the decision as to where an individual gets treatment. Local can indeed be the right choice for many people.
Agree Rebecka....regardless we the last thing people should be worried about are these people in treatment affecting the community. There are plenty of people in PV abusing and dealing drugs.
What people don't realize is individuals struggling with addiction are everywhere. A good majority of them hold down full-time jobs. You might interact with them on a daily basis, but wouldn't even know it. They work as chefs, mechanics, lawyers, small business owners, etc., etc. Many of them have unwarily become addicted because of doctors overprescribing pain meds, and prescribing them without giving due warning about the addictive properties of opiates. They deserve to be treated, and not discriminated against.
Additionally, on a related note, I think Hackettstown and/or Mansfield should have something akin to the C.L.E.A.R. program now available at the Newton police station ( http://clearprogram.org/ ) to help our locals who wish to get clean. Is anyone here connected with CLEAR or the local police? (Feel free to PM me.)
Rebecka, you seem to care a lot about this issue. What do you do in your spare time to help combat this problem? Serious question.
And yes, I care a LOT about this issue. One might assume that I have dealt with addiction myself, or had a family member struggle with it. As it turns out, neither happens to be the case. But for some reason I have a ton of compassion for people struggling with this disease, so I'm going back to school to become licensed to help them. (My degrees are in psychology - but I studied abroad; I could be a licensed psychologist in any country in Europe, but not here, so I'm going back to school. In the meantime, I can volunteer, and perhaps help set up a CLEAR-type program.)
Old Gent Proud is the perfect word. Tremendous work here. God bless your heart and soul
CraftBeerBob Honestly there are so many people who do more than I do. I'm just kind of trying to shed light on the fact that most people who have addiction issues aren't what some people's stereotype of an addict is. And they deserve treatment and not judgement.
Good for you Rebecka..I most certainly agree. People are so quick to judge, many not acknowledging their own issues. We all have them regardless.....
Rebecka, I agree we everything you said. I wish more people were as compassionate as you are. I've never heard of "CLEAR", but it would be a great start, if we had something like this. Darren Tynan, a Hackettstown police officer, is very involved with the community. He would be the one to talk to, about this, and see if he is interested in getting something like this off the ground.
I believe the disconnect is compassion versus responsibility. An addict must take responsibility and if he continues as an addict for an extended period of time blaming everyone but himself/herself that is where I and many others have a problem. Compassion Yes, but a blank check on addict responsibility No...
Ijay, if you actually experienced withdrawals, you would think differently. When I read about older folks, getting arrested for heroin, it's usually because they have had many injuries and/or surgeries, were prescribed narcotics, then cut off. What we really need is more education, starting at a young age, how dangerous withdrawals are. It can actually kill a person, that's how much havoc it causes. The media, and shows like "Intervention", only show how to buy, prepare, consume, and how great it makes them feel. The pharmaceutical companies, told their rich media buddies, to keep mum, on the reality. Most people just equate drug addiction, to chocolate, potato chip, gambling or sex addiction. Not even close to narcotic addiction. There's a thing called "physical dependency". Anyone, taking opiates, for chronic pain, will become physically dependent.... legally or not. Honest, chronic pain patients, will suffer greatly and possibly die, if suddenly stopped their medications. Very hard to comprehend, if not personally experienced, or lived with someone who has gone through the horrors. So, when a person feels like they are dying, survival instinct kicks in. You really think people would want to steal from their loved ones, to support a "habit"? Propaganda can be blinding to the truth. If people knew the reality? I believe they would avoid narcotics, unless absolutely necessary. Educating at an early age, showing the REAL effects of "dope sickness", would be a deterrent.
The topic at hand is building a commercial (medical facility) in a RESIDENTIALLY zoned neighborhood in a town that is not suited to handle the amount of EMERGENCY services that this facility will require, as was demonstrated under the direct testimony of Dr. Wandler, Chief Medical Officer from ARS.
If you were at the meeting you would have heard Dr. Wandler TESTIFY to the Land Use Board and the residents of Allamuchy that the facility in Florida (which is smaller then the one proposed here) received 12 "emergency service" calls a year. When in fact the records prove that between Jan 2015 and April 2016 there were 20 Police Related Requests, 77 Ambulance Requests and 12 Other Requests (Florida Baker Act, requires police to transport patients to psychiatric treatment). As you can see this is much more that 12 per year - when Dr. Wandler was presented with this
information, his response was "Oh that's a lot". For a town that doesn't have our own police department, a volunteer fire department and shares a first aid squad with another municipality this is more than a lot.
For the residents whose homes are less than 200 yards from the property line, this isn't what they signed up for when they purchased their house. Homes that they can't even put up a fence up to separate the property line. They purchased in a RESIDENTIAL neighborhood, yes maybe one day they would have another home close to their backyard but not a commercial facility. One that in fact will have large trucks making deliveries with that horrible backup beep at who knows what time, garbage pick up probably every day, tractor trailers attempting to make it up the steep driveway holding up traffic into and out of the main street for our community. Let's not forget the security lighting that will be shining into their windows at night.
It isn't about whether or not people need help with their addictions, or demonizing them for their issues. The bottom line is that the property being proposed is in a residential area, it was zoned residential for a reason and should remain so for the benefits of the tax paying citizens that already live here. I'm sure that the CEO's, Investors and Planners for ARS could find a much more suited property in the area, just like in Cherry Hill.
In regards to houses closest to the facility (I assume these would all be PV homes), how steep is the hill down to where the houses are?
The vast majority of people do not suffer from the various addictions out there. Those who take a chance to experiment and or abuse these addictions will suffer the consequences and should get help. As for pain medication the drug industry and "bad" doctors do not monitor there patients close enough to ensure they do not fall into the trap of dependency. It is very easy to become addicted to abusing pain medication and very hard to escape it's wrath. Anyone experiencing severe pain, taking pain medication and not closely monitored by doctors, pharmacists, spouses, family, close friends or co-workers should watch out.
Remember there for the grace of God go I.
Jono Spark, I would not include a scenario of a senior in true pain 24x7. This is obviously outside the normal attendees of these rehab centers. I am not sure what the treatment would be once hooked for someone in severe pain at 75 -- life or death at this point...
D-ManPV yes the houses along Bald Eagle, I would have to go through notes and transcripts to see if the exact grading was ever discussed by the engineer or planner.
A few other things I want to clear up from some posts above. PVres states that "we can't see the facility" - residents have stated that they can see the main house from their yards. So when the eight (8) 5600 sq. foot multi-level "cottages" are built they will probably be hard to miss.
Also to the "traffic impact as the residents won't have cars" - this is not true, the clients can have vehicles there, their keys will be taken when they check in, but the facility won't be able to stop them if they want to leave - As per testimony given at the meetings.
Again...traffic impact will be minimal regardless...this isn't a major shopping center. I guess I'm just not seeing the big deal for this. The country needs more of these facilities bottom line. It sucks for the people if they will see the cottages but it's not their land so it could be developed by another person at anytime and it could be worse than cottages! It's the same issue as living in the meadows and having constant construction. You have no say if you don't own the land.
+1 JrzyGirl88. Put the money making commercial property somewhere else nearby where commercial establishments belong.
After all the false and incorrect testimony given by the ARS employees and their witnesses , I do not trust that they can run a safe business for their clients and our surrounding area.
Dr Wandler , one of their key witnesses , had no idea what was going on at one of their major facilities. The residents of Allamuchy had to inform him of the stats from his own facility. I would not trust a loved one to get proper care at any of their facilities. They have only been in business a few years and have no real data base of how many clients they have actually helped. All very scary.
Everyone knows that addiction is very real and many addicts in our area need help. I just do not trust ARS. They have been lying and are full of false data.
So Brandy B, what is it? Put it somewhere else, or you don't trust ARS? Are you saying another rehab organization that you trusted should be allowed there?
It doesn't belong in the middle of a residential area period. There are many other places they can build it.
Looks to me more like it's in the middle of a large undeveloped wooded area, with a sizeable golf club and restaurant to the north and a strip mall to the east. Am I looking at the wrong site on google earth?
Oh. So that's your argument?
You know, I don't think we should have a Country Club right in the middle of a residential area. So many errant tee shots on the 15th tee. Dangerous to the drivers on Bald Eagle.
Look at in on Zillow, you can see the property line better. A gem of a property. Obviously the previous owners were wealthy for the time but their decedents are not or not interested...
YankeeFan, I do not agree with putting a commercial establishment in the middle of a residential area. So yes, another rehab business should not be allowed there. At the same time, after attending all of the meetings and listening to ARS and their witnesses, I do not trust them and would never send a loved one to any of their facilities.
Please head the warning of how this will exhaust and excessively strain the state police, and the volunteer ambulance and firefighters!
APR should seek real estate directly next door to a hospital for safety of their clients and religious organizations to help support their recoveries-away from the
elementary school where straffic and safety of the children is of the highest priority!
Children first!!
The local religious organizations should speak up and be heavily involved at the facility located very very close to a hospital as well!
AND
Yes a bed and breakfast would be most appropriate!!
Donna Donna I really think you need to wake up with the comment about children. Your point is valid regarding fire and police resources....however there is known drug activity going on in Panther valley as well as many addicts.
Helloworld,
Several children in PV have died because of drug overdoses. We also have had some in jail for a variety of reasons tied to drugs. No area is safe from this scourge.
As for drug activity it is going on all the time. Just watch your kids and ask them why they do not hang out with certain people. Maybe they will tell you.
Most people I know have gone into rehab out of state and far away. They like it when they go thru the program with fresh atmosphere and people. 80% or about never moved back to town.
Treatment Centers are needed and this is the perfect place as the have serene atmosphere. Our young are dying!! Wake up TREATMENT IS NEEDED!
Jono
I totally agree with you. I just see some of the comments tied to "fear" of the residents coming out of the facility and into the community. I just find that unrealistic as well as people need to understand its going on in the community anyway. Other reasons make sense for not wanting the facility but the fear of the occupants in not valid inot the current state.
Putting aside the current prospect of type of use for the land, the issue first is changing the zoning. Changing to commercial from residential. The current prospect bringing tax dollars to Allamuchy. If this facility decides to sell or possibly be bought out for example to Atlantic Health in the future it could become tax exempt and as a town we would have no tax advantage. To move forward into the issue of lack of security and police presence. The state police monitor the town. I have lived in Panther Valley for two years. The security vehicles mean nothing in Panther Valley. I have visibly seen the State Police on basic patrol twice in two years, that was prior to the homicide occurring in the meadows last year. While I respect the State Police, they simply do not seem to have the ability to perform as a local police department does at a small town level. This adds to the issue of what the current proposal of land use is to be for.
A PVResident When they finally get their way and build it, everyone in PV and immediate area NEEDS TO FILE A TAX APPEAL!!! This facility will affect your property value. TELL THEM TO JUMP ON THE HIGHWAY AND BUILD IT IN THS FRIGGIN POCONOS!!!
And why don't they just knock the house down and build condos there anyway? They are sure to sell..Propert tax per unit would be over 5K a piece, the town makes $...Or maybe they have other plans after new rezoning laws take effect, hmmm
Itiswhatitis - Good luck with that. If everyone files an appeal, your taxes will not change. Your assessments all would go down by an equal amount of the increase in the rate needed to cover the change in total rateables. And if they built condos, even if they could get past any potential Skylands hurdles, the $5k a piece wouldn't cover the cost of the high school expansion needed. And there's additional cost for the State Police coverage on top of that. Even worse, what if the condos made it so prohibitive to get police coverage that you had to go back to your own higher cost police? Or in order to cover the expansion of Princess Towers, Hackettstown decides to eventually end the agreement for Allamuchy high school students. Then you get a $20 mill bill for a new high school. That doesn't sound so good for your taxes either.
Be careful what you wish for.
Hackettstown makes way too much profit from the sending district to ever consider dropping that agreement
You folks need to think what happens if this rehab company goes bust, then what will happen with the facility? Does it go to a non-profit, does it become a religious retreat while nice might try to be non-profit and pay no taxes. Be concerned. These rezoning challenges is a micro example of the problems we have at a macro level. Closing your eyes and doing nothing won't make it be good, and that goes for praying too -- but it couldn't hurt...
I don't think they could build THAT many condos to make a school/police difference...but I'm sure your right with them messing with assessment etc...either way, BUILD IT IN THE FRIGGIN POCONNOS!
Enlightened effort...
http://www.njherald.com/20170207/state-senate-advances-bill-requiring-insurance-companies-to-cover-drug-treatment#
YF --- I don't really understand this new law unless its a punt against the demise of the ACA. I really don't expect this place to be built if the ACA falls.
Before the ACA, one of the easiest ways for the poor to afford Drug Treatment was through incarnation. That is until the 2008-enacted MHPAEA mandated coverage for group plans followed by the ACA extending MHPAEA to exchange plans and Medicare plans as well.
You can see the rise in new facilities as the result.
So you see, if Trump cancels the ACA, I am guessing that the facility will only be built if NJ passes such a law. Of course, that will not lower healthcare insurance costs for the rest of us, but there's always drugs to make us forget the pain....
Another Trump triumph --- he can lower the number of people looking for substance abuse treatment centers overnight. You see JITsofacto, I can look at things from "the other side."
Through incarnation? Don't even have to go though re- first? :) Or would that be second?
I don't think Repeal and Replace is going to happen in the near term...I could of course be wrong, but even Andrew Dice Trump was waffling yugely in the O'Reilly interview.
This Thursday 23rd of February is the meeting to attend to voice your opinion. The meeting is at 7:30pm. Location is the Allamuchy Fire Department. This is likely the last meeting before the Land Use Board is voting.
Please attend this event.
Last Chance! To voice your concerns, Larger the crowd, the better. Please be at this last meeting, before the board votes. Thursday 2/23/17 Allamuchy Township Firehouse at 7:30pm.
Email below from Allamuchy Residents Against Rezoning
ARS has had nearly a year to present its ill-prepared, badly presented case for placing their substance abuse and eating disorder treatment facility right in the midst of our town.
They have been less than forthcoming with the details regarding the day-to-day operations of their other facilities. At one point during the proceedings, they made reference to concessions that would be made, should the variance be granted. However, based on past history, we have no proof that they will follow through on promises made.
Make every effort to stand up and make a statement about why the Land Use Board should turn down the ARS variance proposal. If we all don’t rise to this challenge, all we will be able to do is talk about what “coulda” and “shoulda” happened to defeat this commercial invasion and assault on our privacy.
Please reach out to your friends, relatives and neighbors, so that we pack the house and have a groundswell of comments opposing ARS.
Lindy I just checked the aras Facebook site. Nothing saying the meeting was canceled. Where did you see that its cancelled? Ty
Larry M. Darst - I went to the expense and difficulty of moving out of PV due to your promotion of the ARS debate. Now it looks like it was not worth it? Can't even get a monthly meeting going after a year. Give it up.
The communication came from the attorney. They do not have enough board members again.
Danny I do t understand your post. The Land Use board and the applicant set the meetings. Neither of which Larry is affiliated with. He is just a resident trying to keep the public informed of the meeting and get people to come. Plus it's pretty clear what his view of the plan is which I'm not quite sure you understand he is against it.
Also the meeting will eventually happen and a vote will eventually take place so go thing you moved I guess
Jim L +1 Jim L . Many concerned residents have reached out to remind the public about these ARS meetings. For some reason DannyC has decided to stalk and harass Larry on HL.
DannyC- evidently you have no clue regarding the entire process of the meetings, the board involvement, attorneys, etc. It's not surprising at all. Nice to hear you were able to leave PV.
DannyC - it you moved away then why in the world are you back complaining about it? Complaining does not help the cause & only makes you look like a very sad person.
Jim L., BrandyB and Luca - Only complaining about the cost and trouble of moving out of PV, probably because of being freaked out by the ARS proposal and the likelihood that it would be accepted by the liberal morons in PV. I got a reasonable price from selling the condo, but it could have been much better for me without the ARS debate.. Glad for the new owners. That's it.
You still make no sense. These meetings are still taking place whether Larry "promoted" them on this site. The ARS debate is still going on so not sure how that benefits your new owners. They will continue
You do realize Larry has nothing to do with this plan other than being a resident that wants people to come to the meetings and voice their opinions? I mean at one point you were calling them "Larry's meetings" and accusing the guy of getting paid for the # of people that attend like he's some sort of nightclub promoter.
Danny C, do you think it's possible for you to discuss anything maturely, and without throwing out ridiculous political slurs? Grow up.
Tracy I think Danny just likes to stir the pot and then sit back and watch! Ignore him and maybe he will go away for good.
Why would you sell your home because of a proposal..somethings not right here. But then again, welcome to HL, where not right is the norm, LOL.
Bessie Real Estate 101, ladies. I got out when the getting was good, possibly saving tens of thousands in loss of property values if the ARS proposal went through. Now I just don't care. Good luck to you all.
The next meeting is scheduled for March 23rd. I hope we have a large attendance from our community.
This Thursday 23rd of March is the meeting to attend to voice your opinion. The meeting is at 7:30pm. Location is the Allamuchy Fire Department. This is likely the last meeting before the Land Use Board is voting.
Please attend this event.
My belief the ARS requested the meeting to be delayed until April. I personally have no 1st hand knowledge of why this meeting was delayed.
H-town Mama Hello all,
I have been following this challenge and recently found out that WE, the residents of Green Township will be facing a similar challenge in the near future.
A preliminary design of a facility by a company called AMBROSIA has been presented to the land use board.
Ours issue will require re-zoning of a residential property.
Any constructive comments will be appreciated.
Thanks Austin Neary
Austin Neary Austin Neary - In Allamuchy/Hackettstown, after a year and a half of meetings on re-zoning, the proposal from Advanced Recovery Systems seems to have fizzled out for good, thankfully so. Good luck keeping similar money-hungry predators out of your area.
4catmom - What do you expect to be the outcome of the meeting which you claim is scheduled in Allamuchy next week? Another lack of decision, or another cancellation?
Looks like another drug treatment center wants to open in our area - Green Township. Check out link below. What will the competition do to the ratables?
http://www.njherald.com/20170502/green-residents-not-happy-with-proposed-inpatient-drugalcohol-rehab
observer3 Interesting insight on a competitor.
http://www.njherald.com/20170525/locked-out-sunrise-house-staff-rallies-over-working-conditions-contract-talks
observer3 - "We have no security here." I'll bet there are plenty of drugs flowing into the place where the consumer market for junk is max, especially during the lockout. Pushers are badass entrepreneurs.
I would like to know if, after18 months of "meetings", the ARS proposal is now officially dead.
The public hearing regarding the variance for Advanced Recovery Systems WILL NOT be held this month.
The Allamuchy Land Use Board is scheduled to meet on Thursday September 28, 2017 at 7:30pm at the Allamuchy Firehouse. This meeting is for the zoning of the drug treatment center.
Please attend and voice your opinion.
All must attend this plan must be abolished or house prices in PV will sink so all should be concerned and attend.
paul thompson Next meeting September 28, 2017 7:30 pm Allamuchy Firehouse. ALL PV Residents must attend this meeting as this is urgent now. Stop this plan now.
The Allamuchy Land Use Board is scheduled to meet on Thursday September 28, 2017 at 7:30pm at the Allamuchy Firehouse. We are asking that you please attend. This will likely be your last opportunity to express your opinion regarding the placement of a drug rehabilitation center at the entrance of Panther Valley. The applicant (Advanced Recovery Systems) will be giving its closing summary for the Board. The ARAR will also be giving its summation. We will discuss all the reasons we believe that this facility is not right for us as outlined in Mr. Vargo’s summary (see attached document). It is likely that the Board will vote following the close of this testimony. We know that this meeting has been scheduled and cancelled numerous times. Despite the delays, this application is still pending! We need your help and support to help convince our Land Use Board that placement of this facility, in this location, is not right for us.
We would like to point out the recent success in Green Township where a similar application was withdrawn. There the applicant (Ambrosia) faced significant opposition from the residents of Green Township. The Land Use meetings were very well attended, filling the school gymnasium with 200+ residents. We need to do the same in our final push opposing this. We are asking that you talk to your neighbors and your friends and ask that they attend the meeting on the 28th. Thank you.
"house prices in PV will sink " -That's a ridiculous statement in my opinion.
I for one hope this project moves forward. It is a much needed facility. That location is well suited for it as well. Impact to PV if any, would be extremely negligible.
Greg Given the status of ObamaCare, do you really expect people to continue to invest in building these facilities?
It's economics. Like the Keystone pipeline approvals, great ------> but without oil companies needing the oil, it will continue to sit dormant. So they got approval but now have no market.
Rehab centers have prospered of late because it's included in ObamaCare coverage regulations to sell heath insurance. Without ObamaCare, that regulation will not be in place. Or, look at it this way --- if repealing ObamaCare is about providing choice of insurance package, and if choice is all about packaging specifically to your personal needs, how many insurance packages will be sold without addiction coverage? It's goodbye coverage time and goodbye rehab centers to follow.
With ObamaCare potentially going belly up at any moment, why would anyone invest in anything that stands the chance of not being covered? After, and because of, ObamaCare, this was an expanding part of healthcare at over 5% or more per year.
So sure, they will still go through the paces of getting approvals, but just watch the ObamaCare vote since once that goes down, you will see how much we care about this. And without the coverage, no need for the facility.
My understanding is the majority of people using this proposed for profit facility will be self paying or relying on insurance. The type of person using this facility is likely not to be on Obama Care or medicaid. This facility will be for people wishing to improve their health situation, preserve their privacy and for the most part operate under the radar. They really do not want the world to know that they have a substance problem or eating disorder. Should this facility be no longer for profit that may become a problem.
Am I right with this? Looking for the pros and cons of this proposed facility as I am undecided.
Due to supply and demand, like many other rehabs, this could possibly turn into a drug distribution center, partially run by criminal pushers. I cannot believe this would not negatively impact home prices and the quality of life for residents in the area.
4catmom and Rebecka - Are you going to the next (and perhaps the last) meeting to promote the rehab? If so, I have six neighbors plus myself who oppose the proposition and are going to the meeting. See you there. Maybe we can talk about something more sensible, like cooking?
Well - Danny - I have been at most of the meetings and you haven't - in fact you told us you moved out of Panther Valley some months ago. You do not know my position on the rehab so don't assume............
Danny you told us you were gonna go to meetings and then every one you made up an excuse why you didn't go
You told us the sale of your house was in limbo until these meetings concluded but then you told us you moved
You told us non PV residents should mind their own business and stay off this thread. Yet here you are commenting as a non PV resident
Figures that you would attack me as opposed to the issues. I was dumb enough to share some of my personal info on this thread, all of which is now an easy target.
Go and visit some actual rehab facilities. There are quite a few in Asbury Park and Patterson. They are revolving doors for addicts. And the overflow from Patterson will absolutely come here. And some places let the addicts bring their children with them. You need to visit some actual facilities. I have a relative who has been to 6 NJ rehabs in less than 4 years. They do not work, and the addicts often take off and become "homeless" and relapsed in their new neighborhoods. Not good for property values.
Lili Lili - Not to mention the fear and loss of quality of life for elderly unarmed residents when "the addicts often take off and become 'homeless' and relapsed in their new neighborhoods". Hey, older people, if this proposal goes through, arm yourselves.
Yes lili, PV already has a huge homeless problem. Don't want to make it worse ;)
And DannyC; I am not sure I see the personal attack in pointing out falsehoods. Seemed spot on with your commemtary.
The issues? Danny you never wanted to discuss the issues. You had your mind made up the second you heard about it. You didn't attend a single meeting heck I'm sure you didn't even bother googling this company. But you say you are attending the next meeting. Ok good maybe you will get some facts although my bet is you won't attend.
Just don't understand Danny, you moved and now you have so much land and seem to be very busy planting a fantastic array of trees, flowers and vegation. Also you are apparently very busy grilling, cooking and pushing your culinary skills on other posters (one in particular who I will not mention).
Why are you still involved in the Alamuchy/Panther Valley rehab proposal?
Just keep digging..it's just getting deeper and deeper every time you post....
Jim L - Did attendance at previous meetings over the past year and a half accomplish anything? Hopefully this will be the last, and ends this ridiculous proposal.
positive - My tenants live in my old place in PV, and I am concerned for them, as well as the property values in the area.
You'd know SD.
Anyway, glad this drug rehab is being built up there. Couldn't think of a more open minded, down to earth, loving community (LOL). Karma's a bitch indeed.
Darrin - As stated to others, the new owners are very concerned about the proposed drug rehab in their area, and I promised them that I would try to fight it all the way. Thanks for your advice on how to do that. Cannot close until this issue is resolved.
DannyCDannyC ✉
Aug '16
Darwin - Yes, but when will the monopolistic propaganda stop, and when will we be allowed to shout out about what a bad idea the drug rehab is? Doing this, if possible, as a promise to the new owners, who are very concerned about it.
DannyC
Jim L., BrandyB and Luca - Only complaining about the cost and trouble of moving out of PV, probably because of being freaked out by the ARS proposal and the likelihood that it would be accepted by the liberal morons in PV. I got a reasonable price from selling the condo, but it could have been much better for me without the ARS debate.. Glad for the new owners. That's it.
DannyC
Feb '17
Oh, what a tangled web we weave...
Liars need good memories. (French proverb)
To get back on point, I hope this rehab goes through. I would hope it would go through if it were being built in my own backyard. The scaremongers have presented zero factually-based reasons to oppose it. Their claims are nothing more than smoke-and-mirror statements aimed to disguise their prejudice towards and (mis)judgement of individuals seeking recovery from addiction.
Greg - Why do you give a flying fart about my real estate disclosures? So very important to you?
Jim L - Due to the sale not going through, we decided to keep the property and rent it.
Danny - you have absolutely no credibility with any of us..............as we remember your various conflicting stories ------------------ perhaps you should go back to the beginning and read all your posts................
"You'd know SD." --- quality humor :>(
Credibility ---- yupper. +! 4cat. I say let's wipe the slate clean for DC. Every dog deserves a new start. Rehabilitation is crucial to the process. Let's see if it sticks.
What if it was your child, grandchild, niece, nephew or your best friends child dealing with addiction? We need these rehabs for the Opiod/heroin addiction right now is out of control. I just watched sadly 5 young people locally lose their life to addiction. All of which came from good families.
Is it that you feel DannyC that you are too good for this type of facility in your neighborhood? If so. Where do you think this type of facility should be placed? For it's much needed! It has to be built in someone's neighborhood. Your arguments carry no weight for I don't see you posting links to prove your arguments.
Let's not forget that after rehab many "clients" move into "transitional" housing, aka sober living facilities aka halfway houses. Of course when ARS was asked if these facilities would be in their plans for the future, that question was really not answered.
I personally do not want my neighborhood turning into rooming houses for recovering addicts. I had a very long conversation with a gentlemen in Florida when this facility was first proposed as Florida has become one of the major hot spots for "Luxury Rehabs". He told me flat out it's not the facility you have to worry about, it's what happens after treatment. For those who are doubting that this will happen in our community just google Sober Living Homes Delray Beach. Here is a few to start with..
http://www.mypalmbeachpost.com/sober-home-invasion/
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/palm-beach/delray-beach/fl-sober-homes-arrests-20161117-story.html
http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/08/10/537882989/beach-town-tries-to-reverse-runaway-growth-of-sober-homes
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/20/us/delray-beach-addiction.html
All of this will be great for a community that A. Does not have a police department B. Has a volunteer fire department C. Has a mutual aid (shared) volunteer first aid squad
I also find it troublesome that since December of 2013 ARS has built or taken over the eight facilities listed on their website, the new facility in Ohio (not listed on site), and the new facility being built in Cherry Hill. That is 10 facilities in less than four years. This is a money making opportunity, with Wall Street Players and you can't tell me they don't want returns on their investments.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-03-30/private-equity-rehab-romance-rages-amid-health-law-turmoil
Do your research, come to the meetings, ask your questions, voice your concerns..
Because once this happens there is no turning back.
JrzyGirl88
Most of the links you shared are from other states!
I personally have a family member living in a sober free "house! My family member holds a bachelor's degree! Believe it or not! The ones living in a "Sober House" have to hold down a job, contribute to the household financially and physically plus attend several meetings a week! It has done wonders for my family member. Who in which was and always will be a beautiful soul!
Never say never! For one day someone close to your heart may fall and wind up in one of these rehabs!
I'm happy you are strong! But not everyone is strong!
JrzyGirl88 - The lack of police, fire and first aid may be why PV is so attractive to ARS.
Dannyc
Allamuchy does have a First Aid Squad! Again! Prior to posting do your homework! :)
Why I know this? Because someone really, really close to my heart is a volunteer EMT!!
https://www.95rescue.org
Ooh! Look! They also have a fire department ;)
http://www.allamuchyfire.com
Since you care sooooo much about your "Community" did you ever consider volunteering your time and life?
#firstresponder #volunteer #lovethem
Realist I am very much aware that the links are from out of state. As I wrote in my post I had a conversation with someone who lives in FLORIDA, where these LUXURY rehabs are now common place. I used these links specifically to demonstrate how a once beautiful community has been over run by the sober living facilities. ARS the company that wants to build here is based out of Florida... Hence the correlation.
Please do not preach to me about loved ones in rehabs and sober homes. I know plenty about it. I have an EX, private school, college educated, who has been in and out of more "high end" rehabs than you can count on your fingers and toes. Doing a great job for him ~ NOT. Hence the reason he is an EX - oh that and the broken hand I got after one of his slips.
A cousin, highly educated from a wealthy family in and out of rehab since 15 now 40. Steals whatever he can get his hands on, begs his elderly grandmother for money, but mommy just keep paying for rehab and bailing him out of trouble.
Another cousin overdosed heroin, after she broke into her parents house and stole her mothers jewelry not a child but a grown woman.
So trust me, I am very empathetic to those in need, but a residentially zoned neighborhood in a small community like Allamuchy with volunteer emergency services and no police department is not the right place for this facility.
Realist, that's good to hear. You are blessed.
A sober house is completely different from a rehab though. Our relative never went to one. And has been medically "detoxed" 4 times since January. There is a shot that can block opiates, but it also blocks alcohol and lots of other meds.
The problem with the rehabs seems to be that in NJ people who would have been imprisoned (for drug related crimes)are given the option of rehab/halfway houses.
SO many are not really trying to get better.
We have been trying for 14 years to get our relative to live in a sober house. Ours chooses not to. Doesn't really want to change.
I have to admit JrzyGirl88 and Lili you do bring up some good points. But... Mental illness is a disease. Just like heart disease, liver disease, cancer, etc. If every other organ in the body can go bad n acceptable why can't the brain go bad? For the brain is also an organ in the body? I'm a supporter of NAMI. I'm sure all the people you put down don t choose to live that way! Their brain is their enemy!
Hats off to JrzyGirl88 for joining the HLers' that actually support their ascertains via research. Good job pointing out a potential issue with a drug treatment center in your town. I can easily see the NIMBY outcome of your research. And poor Delray Beach ---- tell you the truth, makes me want to oxy my way down to the beach for a free winter's vacation........Guess the folks liked the tax revenues from the treatment centers too much to look at potential downstream ill effects of their success.
Like I said, I think it's probably moot for us. Sure, the industry has been blooming since a 2008 law provided greater coverage and ObamaCare even more ---- expanding this industry overnight. Yet investors must be wary given the shaky status of ObamaCare, especially to sink capital investments in new buildings and plants. They will still go through the planning process since the future is uncertain. Or, as goes Trump, so goes this facility. Trump in, ObamaCare repealed, flexible insurance plans allowed, facility out.
I read the articles and poor, poor Delray beach. Frankly, a lot of the blame, as indicated by the articles, is the stupid state of Florida to begin with. "Why did this happen? For one thing, Florida, a state famous for insurance fraud, disdains regulation and was ground zero for the prescription drug epidemic. But the proliferation of fraudulent sober homes was in part also the result of two well-intentioned federal laws." (your NYT link)
This place has been ground zero for insurance fraud for decades.
Note that sober homes are not covered by insurance; one would think that alone would curb much abuse. But shady operators have discovered how to get illegal kickbacks from shady treatment centers for housing patients. Often this leads to a planned process for relapse and another round of recovery. Get hooked, get treatment, go to sober party house, get hooked, get treatment..... And insurance covers multiple relapses so well-meaning, good intentions just add monetary fuel to the fire.
So, JrzyGirl88, looks like a valid point to me yet a situation that can easily be mostly remedied through regulations. Just curtailing the illegal kickbacks alone will close most of the sober party houses down. Florida has done exactly that: http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/state--regional/new-sober-home-regulation-starts-saturday-with-new-florida-law/cdIUQ9PBEyeDOhLhi3SBsO/
Uh oh, this was mentioned in one of your articles but you left that out of your analysis. Further, many states already have the same regulations Florida just passed to curb abuse, which in turn, curbs neighborhood trauma over sober houses: https://www.statnews.com/2016/05/10/sober-homes-state-crackdown/ And they don't suffer what Delray Beach suffered.
I do not know NJ's status on sober house regulations but I am guessing there are regulatory safeguards. Does anyone know?
Good research JG, brought up an important issue to be recognized and understood. Just fell short of looking for remedies already in place or in motion. I believe this risk can be mitigated. No one will ever be guaranteed safe in this, but as someone noted, we aren't safe from it without a treatment center or sober houses. Question is whether NJ regulations are in place to avoid the Delray Beach experience.
Sure these do not help SOME, but they do help others....that approach won't get you far
I think of the world I grew up in. We only had to deal with wine'os. The town had poor house's out by the dumps, where Newark Airport is now, and the Salvation Army was big in helping them. My wife had an uncle who was one of them. The big thing in my children's life was Qualudes. They didn't die unless they had accidents. The drugs today seem to be certain death. There is a lot of desperation out there in the rich and poor. That is very difficult to deal with.
Bless you all for trying.
Advanced Recovery Systems has postponed the planned September 28th meeting because the Land Use Board will not have 7 members available.
Watch for future announcements regarding this very important community issue.
Way to go Land Use Board! Now why not eliminate this ridiculous proposal for good, and save us all the time and aggravation of considering it? Got to help one of our goats who just gave birth to 4 kids. So much more rewarding than this crap.
This must be a tactic the board is using at this point. I'm hoping so...if not it's embarrassing
Way to go land use board? What. They come off looking incompetent that they can't get enough members to attend their once a month meeting.
And sadly this is not a Tactic it seems there is one board member in particular that travels for work and he is the one having difficulty attending these meetings. Unfortunately it's too far in the application process for the mayor to replace him
Jim L: I reiterate - Why not eliminate this ridiculous proposal for good, and save us all the time and aggravation of considering it?
because that's not how reality works Danny... you can't just throw out something you might not agree with without a fair application process. This applicant like any other is entitled to their legal right to get a fair and unbiased application hearing and then once the FACTS are heard they are entitled to a vote from the land use board.
So they only way to get to the end of this is to have enough land use board members to attend their once a month meeting so they can hear this application to the conclusion and then vote based on facts not emotions.
The next meeting is scheduled for Thursday October 26th at 7:30pm, at the Allamuchy Firehouse.
From Allamuchy residents against rezoning:
Friends and Neighbors,
Please attend and ask everyone you know to join you for the important meeting on Thursday night. Although the meeting agenda is not what we originally anticipated, we need to show maximum community support. Thank you.
"we need to show maximum community support" for what? I despise the drug rehab proposal. Is this what you are looking to support? Forget it! I hope the Allamuchy residents against rezoning have their way.
DannyC, I thought on one of your posts from way back, you said you were leaving the area as you were so ticked off with things. I assumed you lived in PV, but I guess not if you have goats giving birth. Do u even live in this area?
Nature Lover The drug rehab proposal in Green was denied, because of the large presence of residence against the plan.
We need the same turnout in Allamuchy, to show the board our community is against a Drug Rehab in town.
The Green Twsp proposal was not denied, the Company withdrew its application to build the rehab facility. The community presence at the meetings was a major factor in their decision I believe.
DannyC. The post asking for community support was "From Allamuchy residents against rezoning".
That would imply they are asking for support opposing the facility.
maja2 Nature Lover - Why are you so concerned about my personal life? FYI, I work in Independence, taking care of livestock and a large garden, but still have "skin in the game" in Panther Valley, and very concerned about the loss of real estate values there as the result of this rehab proposal..
Danny----your stories don't always add up - and some of us have quite good memories.............
Just that you got quite mean in some of your posts to different people. I really couldn't care less about your personal life, but just wondering ...
Nature Lover - "Just wondering" what extremely negative outcomes would precipitate from this rehab proposal.
Example of how mean you are ....August 16 response to 4catmom, where you called her a B.... Apparently you lived in PV, whined about property values, etc etc, moved out, still whining. End of this blog for me.
Nature Lover - I am attending what is hopefully the final meeting on this ridiculous and possibly very damaging rehab proposal...will you?
4catmom - Admittedly not looking forward to confronting all of the liberal morons who support this rehab proposal, with no regard for the adverse consequences.
Greg - Sorry, but if I hear BS, I will probably not be able to just "listen respectfully".
The 10/26 meeting regarding the rehab facility has been cancelled. New information will be posted in the future. Please visit http://allamuchynj.org/event/1706/ for confirmation.
Here we go again. How long has this nonsensical debate been going on? 18 months? When will the ARS proposal threatening Allamuchy go the way of the Green Township proposal and just be withdrawn?
Why don't they just build it in the poconos? It's right down the highway. Go away with this crap here.
Stop talking about it. It isn't going to happen. If you want answers ask the mayor or land use board why the meeting cancel at the last minute. Hilarious
The meeting was cancelled by ARS. I am not sure why but it will be rescheduled before the year ends.
jono - Another rescheduling by ARS? This is getting close to two years of this nonsense. Just drop it.
Only ways to “drop it” is either the applicant withdraws their application or for the Land Use Board to finally have the meeting where the public gets to give their testimony and then they vote. If the application keeps asking for the meeting to get pushed or if the land use board needs to cancel due to lack of board memeber able to attend then this can go on for a long time.
Guarantee the meeting doesn't take place till January - with Thanksgiving & Christmas coming up - no way.
Luca - If that is the case, it would make six straight months of no meetings on the ARS proposal...or longer than six months? I lost track last August, but July was a no-show.
So just to clarify the information being discussed here, the application was heard for the first time in March 2016, the last meeting with regard to this matter was December 2016. The meetings have been cancelled by both the Township as well as the Applicant. One reason being that the Land Use Board did not have enough members to make up the quorum needed for a vote.
As of last night this application was tentatively put on the Land Use Board docket for November 30th. there was not a representative for ARS at the meeting to approve this date, so it may be subject to change but as of now that is the new date.
Only on HL can someone be criticized for not attending ARS meetings that don't exist. Nothing in 2117 so far!
ARS - Please consider dropping your proposal for a drug rehab in Allamuchy. If there ever is a meeting in 2017, you may be very unpleasantly surprised. While you have done nothing to involve the public, the public has been organizing to oppose your proposal.
I didn't realize we are already in the year 2117??
Trying hard to sit on my hands as well 4catmom!
It surely isn't easy..........
So many stories........ Hard to distinguish imaginary to reality.
iJay - Not that it is any of your business, but I still have skin in the game in Allamuchy.
I heard that the Rehab in Allamuchy is no more.
Also heard that the same company was looking at another property in Hackettstown.
Anybody hear about this?
mom with kids Correct - from the Facebook page of the Allamuchy Residents Against Rezoning:
From our esteemed attorney...
Dear Members of the ARAR,
It gives me great pleasure to report to you that Advanced Recovery has elected to withdraw its application for the placement of a drug treatment facility outside of Panther Valley. Advanced Recovery could always attempt to reapply in the future, but this would appear unlikely.
I thank you all for your assistance and time in attending the meetings. I also thank you for your trust in allowing me to handle this important matter on your behalf. I would like to thank those who assisted in obtaining records for the applicant's other facilities. I know this information was very influential in this outcome. We should all be proud of the manner in which we came together to do what was right for our town.
I'm sorry to hear the facility won't be coming. Hopefully another location in the area will be found.
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