Transgender bathroom policy
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2016/04/11/pascack-valley-transgender-policy/
I can't say i would be happy with a male using the bathroom with my daughter regardless if he would be interested in her or not.
Dima But that person isn't male. If that person identifies as female, then they are female. They didn't choose to just swap for the day. It's a deep and complex issue. Why don't you educate yourself a little. Here is a good place for some answers to any questions you may have.
http://www.apa.org/topics/lgbt/transgender.aspx
JelloMold I don't look at this any differently than someone having bipolar disorder or schyzophrenia. Somewhere there's a chemical imbalance causing it. Perhaps research should be done to find a way to combat these imbalances instead of changing our culture. If someone thought they were a cat would you let them crap in your cats litter box?
Metsman "The district estimates that in a student body of 2,000 there are five to seven students who identify with a sex other than the one on their birth certificate."
My only issue is that accommodations are made for a small percentage of people at the potential inconvenience of another much larger group.
D-ManPV here we go...... was wondering when this would hit HL. Here's a take:
Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity (SOGI) Laws Threaten Freedom
By Ryan T. Anderson, Ph.D.
All citizens should oppose unjust discrimination, but sexual orientation and gender identity (SOGI) laws are not the way to achieve that goal. SOGI laws are neither necessary nor cost-free. They threaten fundamental First Amendment rights. They create new, subjective protected classes that will expose citizens to unwarranted liability. Furthermore, SOGI laws would increase government interference in labor, housing, and commercial markets in ways that could harm the economy. Yet SOGI’s damage is not only economic: It would further weaken the marriage culture and the freedom of citizens and their associations to affirm their religious or moral convictions, such as that marriage is the union of one man and one woman and that maleness and femaleness are not arbitrary constructs but objective ways of being human. SOGI laws would treat expressing these widely held beliefs in certain contexts as unlawful discrimination.
Read the whole article:
http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2015/11/sexual-orientation-and-gender-identity-sogi-laws-threaten-freedom
JeffersonRepub "Bruce Springsteen and Bryan Adams Get to Follow Their Consciences, but the Baker and Florist Don’t?
Many of us think that what these corporate giants are doing is bad for representative democracy and self-government. But they have a right to do it. And yet, they want to deny the rights of bakers, florists, photographers, adoption agencies, and marriage counselors who only want the same liberty to follow their conscience.
Big business is using its market freedom to deny small businesses and charities their religious freedom. The hypocrisy is astounding.
Take the cases of Bruce Springsteen and Bryan Adams. They said their consciences require them to deny their artistic gifts and talents to citizens of states that have enacted policy they disagreed with. And, of course, they have that right.
Adams wrote: “I cannot in good conscience perform in a state where certain people are being denied their civil rights.”
He’s wrong about the laws—they don’t deny anyone civil rights. Instead, they protect civil rights. They protect religious freedom, which, as the liberal American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) once acknowledged, is a civil liberty.
So Springsteen and Adams are exercising their freedom of conscience by boycotting states that sought to protect the consciences of adoption agencies, religious schools, bakers, and florists. Do they not see the hypocrisy?"
Read the whole article:
http://dailysignal.com/2016/04/11/liberals-double-standard-on-bathrooms-boycotts-and-religious-freedom/
"'weaken the marriage culture" - What a load of crap. For someone who claims perception is everything, why not just let people go where they want. There are lots of those laws coming about that are putting people in jail because they go to the bathroom they choose. How is that not government interference? If you're against laws like that, then be against all laws not just ones in support of an opposing view point.
How is letting someone go to the bathroom an inconvenience, D-ManPV?
If you don't like someone in a bathroom, it doesn't matter who or what they are. Just go somewhere else.
Metsman - Have you seen a couple of the newer science channel type programs on the subject? They're finding out that many people are not just so one or the other. There is a whole range of gender that is completely natural and not some simple imbalance. Many times they find there are medical reasons why transgender people are absolute right about what they are trying to tell other people. For example there are people that appear to have female anatomy but their chromosomes are XY and they tell you they are male. Shouldn't that person be able to use the men's room because they identify as male?
GC Most people probably wouldn't know if a transsexual was peeing next to them, but what if a woman with no surgery done walks in a men's bathroom...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rytqZiDByJM
This is an open invitation for child molesters who will use this "excuse" for being in the ladies room.
well doneNarrow minds create big bubbles. Newsflash: Bubbles burst.
A "chemical imbalance." Really? That mind set as bad as the therapies imposed on gays to "straighten" them out.
iRun The NC law, and several others, give people the carte blanche ability to discriminate just because (presumably b/c they are uncomfortable with someone else's life choices). Where are those that have been given the ability to discriminate tested on the doctrines of the Bible, where are their life choices against these doctrines challenged because I can tell you that at least 1/2 of them will be really poor Christians. Christianity does not give you the right to discriminate - never has.
Bonv "Christianity does not give you the right to discriminate - never has."
You say discriminate- millions of others say practice religious freedom... you know, one of the things the country was FOUNDED on?
I "identify" as a newborn baby- mind if I crap on your shirt?
There are already public mixed gender family bathrooms, this isn't so much different. Most colleges also have shared bathrooms in dorms now. People can just go into a stall for privacy.
The more difficult question is about school locker rooms, where there is limited privacy and people are changing. No matter which way it goes, some group would be uncomfortable.
hktownie JR - religious freedom does not mean that you get to discriminate against other groups. That's what our country was founded on not the twisted version of discrimination.
Lamppost JR - I've asked this question many times when this topic comes up, but never received an answer. Perhaps you'd like to take a stab at it.
I just don't understand how one's religious freedom is violated by, let's say, baking a cake for a same-sex wedding. To me, you're not doing anything differently than you would if the customer is heterosexual.
In this situation, what is the viewpoint of the Christian baker? How exactly is his/her religious freedom violated?
MB Bonv-
And how exactly is this policy discriminatory? The question isn't discrimination- transgenders DO HAVE A BATHROOM THEY CAN USE- the one that matches their genitalia. No one is telling them they can't use the bathroom.
the real question here is this whole "identify as" BS.... where does it stop? I'm not kidding. There are now surgeons REMOVING HEALTHY LIMBS because people "identify" as disabled. This is a mental disorder.
I identify as a high school girl. Mind if I go use the high school girl's bathroom? Thanks.
Metsman, you're argument is very poor and closed minded. How about clicking the link and reading what the American psychological association has to say. Bring transgendered was at one point classified as mental illness, until it was realized these people are not sick, or broken. They just want to live their lives with dignity like you or I would. Perhaps yout have already peed next to one, and survived!!
You can identify all you want, but unless you physically go through the surgery of having "the change" a male is physically a male and a female is physically a female. When a child is born the Doctors (or mid wife) announce it's a boy or it's a girl. Never do they say "we will have to wait for them to grow up before that decision can be made." IMO-you can be, and have the right to whatever you want to be. Your choice, not my business. As a women the only way I will know if it's a guy or girl in the next stall is which way their feet are facing. I don't have a problem with a true physically changed transgender using a bathroom, I have a problem with pedophiles seeing this as an invitation.
auntiel Religious freedom doesn't inherently give you the right to discriminate.
Also. Just no JR. Get a clue. :D
MB- good question.
I can only answer for myself, of course. *I* personally don't feel my religious freedom would be violated by baking a cake for a homosexual wedding. However, here's a counter-question for you:
Why would a homosexual couple want to force THIER beliefs on someone who disagrees with them, and furthermore, WHY would a homosexual couple WANT a cake made by someone who doesn't want to make them a cake? This is all politics, pride, and revenge. If someone didn't want to bake me a cake- I don't care what the reason is- I'll go elsewhere.
NOW; the big question is where this stuff leads.... it has been brought up, that the govt could MAKE churches (OR... not even a church; a minister or officiant of ANY kind, like they have in these all-inclusive "marriage factories") marry homosexual couples under the anti-discrimination legislations. This would be 100% in conflict with the 1st Amendment. IDK if this has happened yet, but give it time- it will. And it will come under the heading of "since the church receives govt funds, or govt tax write-offs, they HAVE to do what the govt says." The term "slippery slope" is made fun of by many liberals on here, but it's reality. History proves it.
Wow... There are a lot of narrow minded people here. Just because something isn't what you consider "normal" does NOT mean that something is wrong with them or they have a "chemical" imbalance.
If someone started announcing to the world that they are a dog, I would think that it would be considered mentally ill. In 20 years, we will be building bathrooms around the country and spending billions on it.
Philliesman There are now people saying that they were born into the wrong race, or that they "identify" as a race that others do not seem to identify them as. Pretty soon we will have people demanding that the race on their birth certificate be changed, and if we don't do that, we are "evil". There are even people now identifying as animals and getting surgery to make them look like animals - there's a man who says he's a female dragon, a woman AND man who say they are cats, there was a man who identified as a tiger, etc. I guess we'll have to change their birth certificates, too. Sigh.
ChristIsRisen "I don't have a problem with a true physically changed transgender using a bathroom, I have a problem with pedophiles seeing this as an invitation."
That's pretty much the whole point. Good one, auntiel.
Altho there's also a "everybody is the same" damage to the culture happening. Everyone is NOT the same. It's not a BAD thing, it's a REALITY thing. THANK GOD for the differences, or none of us would even be here.
Now, in a civilized world, I get where the point is coming from- why bother having gendered bathrooms at all? If all we are doing is "using the bathroom", what does it matter what gender you are? Much like a bus, or a diner, or anything else. I do get that.
So my question is: WHY do we have gendered bathrooms in the first place? Including in public schools? WHY? I mean, if we're "all the same" and "there's nothing to worry about" and "we shouldn't discriminate", why not let the boys and girls in schools use the same bathroom?
JeffersonRepub, I agree, but I see this as something different. Notice that gay activists have never once gone into an ultra-orthodox Jewish bakery or a Moslem bakery and demanded to have a cake made with something about gay marriage written on it. They certainly have never done this and then publicized it all over the news, while tearing down their religions. And they never will - I can guarantee you. Because it's not really about gay rights or EVEN religion, as much as it is about eradicating one religion and one only - Christianity.
I'm all for equality and letting true transgender people switch per their will. If they really feel like the opposite gender and wish to carry themselves as such, I am in no position to question their decision.
Unfortunately (for them), we live in a binary world and there are clear-cut physical definitions of male/female (i.e. chromosomes, physiology, and basically what sits between your legs). Since there are no clear parting lines defined for "transgender" (like when does a physiologically male human become female), then the opportunity for abuse by unscrupulous perverts is too great IMO. This is another matter where the potential abuse outweighs the benefit of new legislation. Leave restroom gender assignments alone and continue to decide on a case-by-case basis if individuals violate existing laws (and levy appropriate punishment for actual violators) instead of creating dozens to hundreds of loopholes that must be subsequently closed by our glacially slow and outdated legal system.
The only way to immediately solve this issue would be to make single-person restrooms without gender designation. (because just removing designations from existing group restrooms would cause a real shitstorm).
Common Sense JelloMold...If the person is born with a penis...he is a male. If that person is born with a vagina that person is a female. No education needed.kindergarten knowledge.
If they want gender neutral bathrooms why not just make it gender neutral. Why go through this whole big issue with transgender?
I'll be damned if my daughter is changing in a locker room and a transgender male is in there with a penis getting changed right next to her and same with my son and a transgender female. Does this bother me personally no but for my school aged children yes. They can be exposed when they are old enough
"The only way to immediately solve this issue would be to make single-person restrooms without gender designation. (because just removing designations from existing group restrooms would cause a real shitstorm)."
Porta-Pottys everywhere!! Johnny On-The-Spots! (or, JANE on-the-spots, as the case may be)
auntieL - "Never do they say 'we will have to wait for them to grow up before that decision can be made.' " Yes they do. My aunt was an OBY nurse, and had always said there were any number of cases where they just weren't sure. Today they do DNA testing to find out, and it's not always the answer they expected. Plus there are cases where literally the person is born half and half.
The legality is about what happens when one freedom impinges on another. Yes there is freedom to assemble, but when you assemble to block someone else to assemble, you are preventing someone else's freedom. The same when it comes to religion. People are free to practice their religion, but not take away someone else's rights. It's not allowed to close newspapers and TV stations down because they conflict with people's religion. That's the classic dilemma in Constitutionality - freedoms do have a limit up to the point where they conflict with other freedoms. The classic case of this is said to be yelling "Fire" in a crowded theater. That example is often quoted but the reasoning behind it often is not.
I find it ironic....
Years ago, discovering that people had "chemical imbalances" was a GOOD thing.. it meant their erratic behavior was not their fault. It was an actual medical condition.
NOW, "chemical imbalance" is somehow derogatory? For real???? So now, no matter what anyone does and no matter how anyone feels, it's "ok"? There is no mental illness anymore?
Maybe Stalin had a "chemical imbalance", or maybe he just "identified" as a murderous dictator....
(OH NO YOU DI-UNT!!! Yes, I did:)
"WHY would a homosexual couple WANT a cake made by someone who doesn't want to make them a cake?"
It's the principle. The whole thing is so hypocritical. Are these Christian bakers refusing service to those who have been married multiple times?
The idea of refusing service to someone because they are a sinner is the complete opposite of the message of Jesus.
And of course it's easy for you to say you would just go elsewhere. What if you're a homosexual couple in Missouri and you are turned away by multiple businesses?
IMO the law has changed and if you offer a service that is related to weddings, you either have to adapt or find a new line of work.
Trust me, gays don't want to get married in the church.
I do agree with you on the slippery slope though - once you allow businesses to turn away people for something as simple as a cake, you're opening the door for people to use their religion as an excuse to discriminate.
GC, then what about the freedom for genetically born females to have a bathroom to themselves? I guess once again women's rights take a backseat to men's rights (in this case, genetically born males who say they are women). Either way, women once again lose to male privilege.
The things that people will accept and make excuses for is beyond belief at times....
I know of a few transgender kids that attend West Morris HS. From what I was told they have been given permission to use the staff restroom so they do not have to choose. There is also a new one that I had not heard of until recently. I guess a couple of other kids at West Morris classify themselves as Pansgender. This is where they do not consider themselves male or female, but a third gender? Where does it end.....
JRT " People are free to practice their religion, but not take away someone else's rights"
So... continuing with this train of thought ... how exactly does a publicly displayed Nativity scene or Menorah "take away someone else's rights"? How exactly does saying "Merry Christmas" in elementary school infringe on someone else's rights? (yes, some schools have banned even speaking the words)
Some of you (I'm not speaking directly to you, GC) need to understand that freedom OF religion does not mean freedom FROM religion.
MB-
"It's the principle. The whole thing is so hypocritical. Are these Christian bakers refusing service to those who have been married multiple times? "
Agree.
"The idea of refusing service to someone because they are a sinner is the complete opposite of the message of Jesus. "
Agree. Jesus just wouldn't bless or be a guest at the wedding tho (technically speaking... but my personal feelings on that are for a whole other thread)
"IMO the law has changed and if you offer a service that is related to weddings, you either have to adapt or find a new line of work. "
I don't disagree with that.
"Trust me, gays don't want to get married in the church. "
Why not? "It's the principle"- YOU said it. Just wait.
"I do agree with you on the slippery slope though - once you allow businesses to turn away people for something as simple as a cake, you're opening the door for people to use their religion as an excuse to discriminate."
And vica-versa: using the law to infringe on other's freedom of religion. Works both ways.
"Pansgender. This is where they do not consider themselves male or female, but a third gender? "
Uh-oh. We're definitely going to need the Porta-pottys.....
Why not? Were you married in the church? It's a PITA (at least the catholic church). All kinds of paperwork, classes, etc. No one's going to go through all that just to make a point.
It's a moot point anyway - the churches are not going to be forced to perform same sex weddings. No one is even suggesting that they should.
" Never do they say "we will have to wait for them to grow up before that decision can be made." True. Notice how even the most STAUNCH transgender rights activist will ASSUME (in the absence of genetic testing) that a child born with a penis is a boy and with a vagina is a girl. When someone asks what sex the baby is, they do NOT say, we will let the baby decide, or we won't know until they tell us in 5, 10, 15 years.
But it always makes me roll my eyes, too, that, for example, the very first thing a man does when he says he is transgender is to put in makeup, a wig, a skirt and heels. Because clearly, womanhood is all about heels and makeup. /s/
Yes, West Morris has kids that identify as transgender, pangender, non-binary, asexual, agender, bigender, etc. And heaven help you if you don't immediately KNOW what pronoun to use with them. They will become incensed - as though you are supposed to instinctively know that a girl dressed up as a boy who is dressed up as a girl wants to be called "xie" or "jieyio" or whatever, not "she" or "he".
The best thing you wrote on the subject. Jr.
"The term "slippery slope" is made fun of by many liberals on here, but it's reality. History proves it".
Just build another Room. He/She/ It. There is no limit to what we have done already so the least of us, FEEL accepted.
Old Gent "It's the principle. The whole thing is so hypocritical. Are these Christian bakers refusing service to those who have been married multiple times? "
The hypocrisy is in the fact that one ONLY religion is being targeted; never once has an LGBT activist called to the carpet people of ultra-orthodox Judaism or Islam who share the SAME believes with Christianity. NEVER have they gone into a bakery demanding a hasidic baker make a cake for the wedding of two men! NEVER. And they won't - mark my words. But if they were truly concerned about rights, they would.
ChristIsRisen - If you somehow interpreted what I said to say transgender of one type should be allowed to choose their bathroom but transgender of another should not, then that must be the way I worded it. I was definitely not saying that men's rooms should be treated any differently than women's rooms. It was just an example when there are plenty of examples of both genders.
JR - I do understand fully. (including the statement wasn't directed to me) It's getting a bit further off topic, but I do agree that a simple public display when not financed with public funds and not on public property does not infringe on someone else's religion. You do need to be careful though about the question of being forced to say "Merry Christmas" and being allowed to say "Merry Christmas".
As I believe you're implying I personally most definitely don't believe in freedom "from" religion any more than I believe in forcing religion on anyone. That's not always an easy line to distinguish.
"Why not? Were you married in the church? It's a PITA (at least the catholic church). All kinds of paperwork, classes, etc. No one's going to go through all that just to make a point. "
Just wait. We'll get back to each other.
"It's a moot point anyway - the churches are not going to be forced to perform same sex weddings. No one is even suggesting that they should."
Just wait. This is in the UK- but it'll cross the pond, ABSOLUTELY.
http://conservativebyte.com/2015/06/gay-couple-is-suing-to-force-a-church-to-hold-their-wedding/
The NC law is much more sweeping than the bathroom "rule" and was put together in order overrule a local ordinance in Charlotte banning discrimination against LGBT people (not just transgender).
The law not only overturns Charlotte’s ban: It also prevents any local governments from passing their own non-discrimination ordinances, mandates that students in the state’s schools use bathrooms corresponding to the gender on their birth certificate, and prevents cities from enacting minimum wages higher than the State's.
The law now preempts cities from passing their own nondiscrimination standards, saying the state’s rules—which are more conservative—supersede localities.
GC-
And so what if it IS on public property? I mean, what's the complaint? A nativity in a public park is forcing anyone to practice that religion. If the argument has something to do with "taxpayer dollars", well then- we have a HUGE problem, because there's ALOT of crap *I* don't want to pay for! lol
But seriously- as a Christian, I take no offense at a Menorah, or whatever the decoration is for Ramadan, or even if the atheists want to erect a "clear plastic box of nothing"- I take no offense, public property or not. It's not infringing on anyone's freedom of religion.
Now, the "separation of church and state" , while related, is another topic... and imo NOT the same thing as the 1st Amendment. But I don't want to derail too much here....
GC, Sorry if my comment came off that way; it was not directed toward you. Just a rant about how women's rights to safety, security and privacy are once again to be brushed aside for another group. Same old story for tens of thousands of years!!
"The law now preempts cities from passing their own nondiscrimination standards, saying the state’s rules—which are more conservative—supersede localities."
Now THAT would be an interesting discussion for another thread. Not just THIS law, but ALL laws.
JR - Public property is an issue for a completely different reason other than the display itself. It's because if the tax money was collected from 10,000 people, there are 10,000 different religious views. It's impossible to accommodate everyone, so just let individuals do their displays on their property, time, and $.
Just wait. This is in the UK- but it'll cross the pond, ABSOLUTELY.
http://conservativebyte.com/2015/06/gay-couple-is-suing-to-force-a-church-to-hold-their-wedding/
Of course it will. Because the real agenda is to tear down Christianity. Again, please note that it is now and will only be churches - not synagogues or mosques - that will be targeted like this.
"NEVER have they gone into a bakery demanding a hasidic baker make a cake for the wedding of two men! NEVER."
Christisrisen - how do you know that? Perhaps they just baked the damn cake and that's why you haven't heard about it.
so tell me JR where does religious freedom stop can toll takers refuse to take your money and not let you enter there state can cops or firemen refuse to help on religious grounds can a DR refuse to help where does religious freedom stop TELL ME
"Yes, West Morris has kids that identify as transgender, pangender, non-binary, asexual, agender, bigender, etc. And heaven help you if you don't immediately KNOW what pronoun to use with them. They will become incensed - as though you are supposed to instinctively know that a girl dressed up as a boy who is dressed up as a girl wants to be called "xie" or "jieyio" or whatever, not "she" or "he"."
What? This is so confusing. Sigh.....
Calico696 Because haredi Jews are very observant and are 100% against homosexuality, that is why! They would NEVER bake such a cake, but gay people would NEVER try to force them to. That's the hypocrisy.
GC- well, in that case, what am I to do about govt funding of abortion? If other people's taxpayer dollars should not be used to display religious beliefs, perhaps other people's taxpayer dollars should not be used to VIOLATE religious beliefs?
(and no, I don't want to get into an "abortion" discussion... I'm just talking about the "equality"of the subject being discussed)
Calico, it's true; several gay kids quit their LBGT club because even some of the gay kids do not believe in the whole gamut of new genders that are being thought up. The club is in danger of closing down now, I think, over it.
Christisrisen - OK, find me a haredi Jewish baker and I will go in there and ask for a cake for a same sex wedding.
JR - Too far afield and not wanting to get into that other discussion is right. I have an opinion on that mind you, but not the time or place on this thread.
http://www.jewocity.com/jewish-business-directory/results.php?keyword=chareidim+bakery&where=
Here's a list - Remember to videotape it. Oh, and don't forget to go into observant Moslem bakeries, too.
I won't hold my breath, lol.
As an old friend, co-worker, and do-wop singer extraordinaire, Ronald "Squeaky" Littlejohn often said, "wherever you be, may your pee be free."
DannyC Actually auntiel, the doctor may pronounce you as one sex when your genitals are rather ambiguous, as they sometimes are. There was at least one famous case (that I was I remembered the name of) where someone was raised as one sex due to that very reason and the doctor saying "it will be easier this way". Followups by doctors and psychologists claimed that it worked and all was well, however the book written by the acual person they "studied" claimed quite the opposite and that they were in continual torment until they finally had a sex change.
There are a number of transgender people who commit suicide due to not feeling "right" in the body they grew up in. It's more than just a chemical imbalance and in many cases it's a genetic issue. Yes, there are some who claim to be transgender, (often later in life) that perhaps due have mental health issues or some younger that their environment has played a large role in making them feel out of place in their skin. There are no easy answers, but yes, of course there are the few that will claim they are transgender to gain access, like the guy they just caught filming recently, but that is someone who is a perverted criminal more likely than not and is highly unlikely to be a true transgender person.
I'm speaking from the experience of both knowing people who were transgender and having a transgender family member, so I'm not making assumptions or talking out of my a__. I also read Chaz Bono's book, which gives the story of life from the perspective of someone who thought they liked other women because they were a lesbian, only to finally realize and be at peace with themselves only after realizing that they should have been a man. The struggle to have sexual (or gender) reassignment surgery is long and involves taking hormones and undergoing counseling as well as dressing and acting the part of the gender you are going to assume after surgery and that includes using the bathroom of the gender you are going to become physically while dressed as that gender, while still having the "equipment" of the gender you still are physically.
Phil D. "come on JR where does religious freedom stop ?"
According to the Constitution, it doesn't. You fought to uphold it, you should study it sometime. Being serious- not trying to be sarcastic. You should not only read it, but study it and the founder's original intent, WHY it says what it says.
With the obvious caveats of MURDER and the other crimes that have been illegal since the founding, religious freedom doesn't stop. It's one of the MAIN CORNERSTONES the country was founded on.
So I've been reading this thread and after hearing a caller on a radio show discussing this very topic, I'll try and paraphrase what she so eloquently said:
Children's brains are not fully developed until they are 21 years old. Sometimes children perceive irrational things as true. An example would be suicide. A child can actually believe that the world will be a better place without them and think that suicide is ok, when the reality couldn't be further than the truth. She went on to say that these children might be perceiving themselves as transgendered, when in fact, they are not. Adding a bathroom for transgendered children could be compounding the confusion.
I wish I could replay her call because she made so much sense with discussing children's perceptions versus realities and the confusion they must be experiencing.
3wbdwnj We really need a law for this? Lots of offenses out there?
My take is if the "wrong" person is in the bathroom, there will be a lot of yelling and screaming real fast.
Otherwise chances are no one will notice so why bother.
Meanwhile, who's doing the patrolling and how do they search? Stop n frisk?
strangerdanger Let's all say that these transgender people deserve the right to use that bathroom for the sex that they most identify with (not saying I agree). Who will prove that the person in the bathroom with others having different genitalia than they do is really transgender and really identifies with that sex? Or maybe they just identify with hanging out in a bathroom with people of the opposite sex? Who makes that distinction? This was first brought up in school locker rooms. Would you want your daughter taking a shower and in walks the captain of the football team swinging in saying "don't mind me, I identify with you". Oh, no problem then. Come on! In the context of a bathroom, the word sex has to do with you physical makeup and not your mental. This makes me uncomfortable. Is anyone worried about me being uncomfortable? I am being discriminated against because I prefer to pee in the same room as those of the same sex! I kind of identify with "old school" like that.
JB400 
lucy Using a bathroom is a physical act, not a mental or emotional act and therefore you should use the facilities that go with your physical appearance, not how you feel mentally or emotionally. Besides, how much time do you spend in the bathroom anyway that you are so mentally or emotionally weak that it will traumatize you. I do not know how we can ignore the tangible facts of the situation. You have certain parts that identify you as male or female. Until you change those parts, that is what you are.
3wbdwnj: You are so right. Children are still growing and figuring out the world and their identity. They are not emotionally or mentally mature enough to decide sexual orientation. they are what they are.
JBJSKJ You can't just choose your gender. You are given XY chromosomes if you are a man and XX if you are a woman. This is not something you can choose or can be changed. Regardless of surgery or how you dress/identify, birth sex is final.
Being transgendered basically like darkening your skin, wearing a sombrero, changing your name to Juan and declaring you're Mexican. It just doesn't work that way.
1988LJ Wow. Guess you folks aren't up on surgical advances.
Maybe we can just have genitallia-correct IDS made.
But if Caitlin Jenner turns up in my John, I'm gonna freak. (Just kidding)
Ok strangergoogle Your wife and six yr daughter walk in the ladies room, there's a 6'2" scraggly haired and bearded guy with a fat gut, dirty jeans with chains hanging off and he says "don't worry lady I'm just feeling my feminine side today so it's legal for me to be in here. Or, it's a slim little guy maybe effiminate looking (I'm sure I'll get in trouble for that one) and so not very scary looking. In either case, may be there WON'T BE TIME for screaming and yelling, then it's too late for your wife and child or perhaps someone else's family, that ok with you? after all you gotta protect the RIGHTS of that "person" first and foremost. The NC Governor is 100% correct, this situation is simply about common sense and protection against predators.
"You can't just choose your gender. You are given XY chromosomes if you are a man and XX if you are a woman."
Unless you're not...
http://anthro.palomar.edu/abnormal/abnormal_5.htm
ianimal ianimal, that's extremely rare, and the vast majority of transgendereds do not fit that bill. Most are inbalanced and confused people.
ianimal - That's not even the half (pun intended) of it. Wait until people find out they have chimera syndrome. In that case half your DNA could be XY, the other half XX because you are made up of two eggs when born.
http://pictorial.jezebel.com/one-person-two-sets-of-dna-the-strange-case-of-the-hu-1689290862
That's why it's not quite so easy to take the kindergarten view that gender is either one or the other.
joyful Depending on the specific syndrome, rates of frequency are anywhere from 1-3 out of every 1,000 live births. So, there are probably anywhere from 10-30 affected people in Hackettstown alone. I don't know that I would call that "extremely rare".
I just could not bring myself to read this thread in full...........after just a few posts I got dizzy from shaking my head.
I just HAVE to tell those that are worried about "it" opening up the door to pedophiles..
I honestly think you have to worry MORE about the WONDERFUL neighbor that your family has known for years and wouldn't think in a million years would molest a child, or the "uncle" that is just SO GREAT WITH THE KIDS...........or the owner of a business in town that is JUST WONDERFUL with the customers AND his under age employees.
I'm not saying it's not possible that a pedophile ends up in a bathroom (actually they ALL do, cause they all pee and poo., but it's ALL the folks above, that NONE of my family would have EVER thought of were the pedophiles, and NOT the weirdo's that they were afraid of.
AND just so you know WOMAN can molest girls AND MEN can molest boys. How about instead of worrying over transgender using what bathroom, WATCH your kids in a public restroom when they are young AND teach them that NO ONE is allowed to make them feel uncomfortable ANYWHERE!
littlelu Littlelu-Don't forget all those "good" Christian priests and ministers who were molesting children right under their concerned parents' noses. I totally agree with your post.
I'll tell you why this science is BS... You had an Ancient Greek culture where homosexuality was rampant and accepted. They chose to live that way. They weren't born with x y z or whatever stupid chromosome. This is a mental condition.
Do you know how many people I come across that I have no idea what gender they are? That's not going to stop my need to relieve myself when it arises.
It's a bathroom with separate stalls, just go and be done with it....
positive People who feel the need to drink too much would (should) identify as an alcoholic. That doesn't mean that they can go around drinking and driving. Although some do, the healthy thing to do would be to fight that urge and unfortunately we all have to live with fighting different impulsive urges in our life. Could be alcohol, chocolate cake, cheating on a test... Anything. This world shouldn't be a free for all. We all need to practice self control
Leapyear79 What about this woman who says she is a cat, what happens when she starts demanding things like no dogs on her side of the street. Where is the line drawn, what is the level where you tell someone, at the risk of being labeled and ridiculed, that you cannot be a cat or a tree.
The world has truly gone crazy where anyone can demand anything to be "fair". Where common sense and the good of the many has been completely twisted to be racist.
Woman says she is a cat trapped in the wrong body - she hisses at dogs, hates water and claims she can even see better at night
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/12127067/woman-says-she-is-a-cat-trapped-in-the-wrong-body.html
Mark Some schools and businesses have a few gender neutral bathrooms. Something to think about.
real1 Fun fact: Transgender people don't want to molest your wife or kids. They just want to go pee.
rdl Oh here we go, now our bathrooms will have to install litter boxes and fire hydrants. lol
quoted from above; "gay activists have never once gone into an ultra-orthodox Jewish bakery or a Moslem bakery and demanded to have a cake made with something about gay marriage written on it. They certainly have never done this and then publicized it all over the news, while tearing down their religions. And they never will - I can guarantee you. Because it's not really about gay rights or EVEN religion, as much as it is about eradicating one religion and one only - Christianity."
+1, and spot on, it is becoming 'illegal' to be a christian, and if you're 'white', then it's a double blow,
positive said : "It's a bathroom with separate stalls, just go and be done with it...."
+1 to that positive, i go into a bathroom to use the facilities, i don't look around to see if there are people in there who shouldn't be in there. who has time for that? anyways, i think it's creepy to be 'looking' at others in a public restroom to determine what it is they have or not have.
and yes to the science/biology of all of this as there are some folks whose chromosomes/dna mix is all over the place. that is not a lifestyle choice that they have made, but rather that is the body that was given to them to live their life in. if all things come from god, (as i believe) then these folks have every right to be who they are, and to live as freely as they can. our bodies are the vehicle that our souls possess to travel through this life. (and as it says in the good book, god breathed 'life' (that is our souls) into the flesh that was raised from the ground). so that being the case, all of us should show a little compassion and empathy for those around us who travel through life in those bodies that actually have a different chromosome mix.
now, i believe that there are others whose dna mix is not confused and who do make lifestyle choices for many different reasons, i am not smart enough or wise enough to accurately determine this so i take them at their word.
it would be smart for those on the other side of this to show a little compassion for the christians who are raising questions; christians deserve the same compassion and accommodation that is being demanded by the transgender community.
BrotherDog Cynic: it's strangerdanger thank you very much.
I guess I was not clear but my main thought was about the NC law and that don't we have enough laws already on the books to protect us in bathrooms?
Sure, I think any gender might be taken aback by the picture you painted. But let's talk the subject on a reality basis.
First, let's say I enter the men's room and its empty but looks like the aftermath of a three day heavy metal festival when supplies ran out on day one. I probably wouldn't think twice about knocking on the girl's room and if no answer, sauntering in.
Next, lets take the transgender example, we'll go boy/girl since that appears to be the dangerous one. A surgically adapted TG in full feminine regalia. Sorry, but who's gonna know? This person is going to feel pretty scared in the men's room, no one will notice in the other, so what do you expect to happen, law or no law.
A non surgical TG under meds in FFR, same story unless her trouser trout is breaking the surface.
Anything else as it approaches your example is going to illicit a far different response which I am sure current law adequately cover.
So I guess my point was don't we have enough laws on the books to cover this and who's gonna really follow the law anyway since the potential for being caught is minimum unless the police start profiling this class.
Perhaps our model for the future needs to be different. Male or Female group bathrooms, and single bathrooms where anyone can participate, one at a time.
These forums never fail to reinforce the notion that Hackettstown is nothing but a close-minded and bigoted town full of wannabe rednecks. To anyone reading this who has ever felt discriminated in our washed up town, I urge you to get out. The world is so much bigger than these boring middle aged wonderbread conservatives.
**NEWSFLASH** A transgender person who has undergone transistion from male to female, or vice versa, just wants to feel comfortable, like ANY OTHER HUMAN BEING, when they go to use the restroom. If a fully transistioned male-to-female transgender walked into the men's bathroom, it invalidates who they are and THAT would make everyone involved uncomfortable, because guess what? That person is a woman! And women don't belong in the men's room! Your kid is no more likely to get molested when walking into the bathroom than any other day. Creeps exist in the world and abuse things for their evil - but have some compassion and realize that these PEOPLE just want to be comfortable in their own skin, and there is nothing wrong with that. It is a basic human right.
peachy No one is denying that peachy. What we are talking about is a school that is allowing *children* to do this.
I think it is very problematic that schools are actually enacting policies like this. It normalizes something that a very small minority of people experience and it should be handled by the schools on a case by case basis. That's my .02.
As far as adults go - many places have a family bathroom that they can use and hey, regardless of the genitalia if a man identifies as a woman and dresses like one and feels safer using the women's bathroom - I'm not going to complain! Vice versa. Unless we're going to have a bouncer outside of bathrooms who's going to be checking, what's the difference?
somechik peachy said - "women don't belong in the men's room"
well, that's true, unless of course if a woman 'self-identifies' as a man, then they could go into the men's room, correct? don't we want a woman who identifies as a man to feel comfortable? we certainly shouldn't care about the 'feelings' of the 'wonderbread wannabe rednecks' should we? (wow! they are so pathetic they can't even make it to being real rednecks)
please check your liberal privilege, your overarching pejorative judgements are way out of line.
"please check your liberal privilege, your overarching pejorative judgements are way out of line."
The new BD buzz spin.... sigh.
So who exactly are you to be checking people's "privilege", BrotherDog? Who checks any one of your half dozen "privileges"? Just because we disagree with someone else calling everyone "wonderbread" doesn't mean we bully them off the forum. There definitely has been quite a share of that type of sentiment but it's definitely not everyone around here. Either way no one has to check with anyone to say what they want.
Too much emphasis has been put on the semantics of "identify". It's just a way to say what someone them self says vs what others think for what ever reason. When someone dresses, acts, and looks like a man and also says "I am a man", that's self-identifying. Do we really need a DNA test or a medical exam to take their word for it? We're not talking about making people comfortable, it's about denying who they are. What man here wants someone to come along and say "no you're not" and demand a medical exam?
I've been told by BD to check my "liberal privilege" too...seems to be his new schtick. I could just as easily ask some of the people here to check their conservative privileges. But l guess since HL is the AM talk radio of the internet, l would just be bullied off the forum.
As far as the bathroom issue...there are bigger fish to fry. Safety issue? As far as l know Jerry Sandusky was a guy, identified as such, and just loved men's rooms. There are bad people everywhere. All the rest of us just wanna pee and get on with our day.
Eperot it's telling and right in character for the resident libs up here to call me out while giving a complete pass to peachy's statements:
" bigoted town full of wannabe rednecks" and "The world is so much bigger than these boring middle aged wonderbread conservatives"
oh my, where's the tolerance, the consideration, the accommodation?
yep, needs to check his?/her? liberal privilege, that's for sure.
and so do the rest of you who are ok with peachy's overarching pejorative judgements that only label and attack one side and let the other side go free and clear, no issues, and is supported and encouraged by you who are not on the right. you guys know that's wrong, don't you?
but i am glad to find that you guys are thinking about this stuff, it's a good thing
btw; i wonder what these good people would think about being labeled "wonderbread conservatives"?? : http://www.ranker.com/list/republican-and-african-american-or-the-black-republican-list/famous-conservatives
Who are you talking to BD??
I didn't give anyone a pass and said this:
'Just because we disagree with someone else calling everyone "wonderbread" '.
Time to check your privilege for sure.
ok GC, thx, gotcha, i did see that you did not accept the pejorative labeling and that's a good thing, what would you have me do to check my privilege? (asked in all sincerity, not sure i have any to be honest with you as i come from a very humble background in life)
"That person is a woman! And women don't belong in the men's room! "
Why not? Who are you to judge whether she's even a woman, or if she is, whether she thinks of herself as a man? I thought you argued for the right of people to identify with whatever sex they want to. So we can't say she doesn't belong! We can't even say "she", b/c you just can't know. Which brings me to my next point; if you ever have a child, you should not DARE to tell people, if asked, that the baby is a boy or girl, b/c how can you know? Remember, there are all kinds of genetic issues with X and Y chromosomes, and even then, you can't know which gender they will identify with. According to new progressive ideology, you have to wait until the child is 2 or 3, watch which shirt the child puts on, the type of toys the child likes to play with, and then, based upon your own preconceived notions of gender, tell that child they are "transgender". Yep. People like Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt take us back a good 50 years on gender issues, b/c apparently, the new mantra is no longer that girls can play with trucks and have short hair, and boys can play with dolls and wear pink; the new mantra is that if they do this, they simply MUST be "transgender". Women used to fight against being told that womanhood is all about long hair, makeup, and high heels. Now we have men who, the first thing they do when they declare that they are actually women is to dress up in the equivalent of black face, by putting on makeup, a long wig, and high heels. Congrats. You've taken women right back to the dark ages, "progressives".
We are in the twenty first century, year 2016. For far too long we have discriminated against transgender people, and this discrimination needs to stop. Though I understand that I cannot change anyone's ideologies and we have the freedom of speech, I protect myself with the first amendment. To begin with, transgender people need the support to truly be themselves, just like everyone else. Also, they should be allowed to go to the bathroom where they feel ID the correct place for themselves. None of these people will do no more harm than everyone else do in the bathrooms. Furthermore, no one looks at each other in the bathroom, except at the sinks. You see that person for only a mere three seconds of time in your life, and you may never have to see them again. If a person feels that they are in the wrong body, then they should have the right to express themselves freely just like the rest of the human population. The bigotry in this country us starting to become ridiculous and needs to be stop, before we revert back to the years of the civil war.
Freedomisnotfree Wanting to use a restroom with members of your own gender is not discrimination its not bigotry. This has gotten so out of hand. Where does this stop? No one is being denied the right to use a restroom. If you are a male use that restroom - female the other one. This has worked since the existence of restrooms. I feel like I'm living in some warped social experiment. Never a dull moment in these wacky times!
They should identify with what equipment they have. If they identify female, but still have a male equipment, do they sit in the toilet or still stand when peeing?
Shirley So if someone who is 40 feels they are in the wrong body age-wise, can they go to your kids' elementary school and enroll, and then use the same bathroom as your kids? How about sleepover parties? After all, maybe the person truly "identifies" as 7 rather than 40. Who are we to judge?
What if one decides they like little children? They are physically attracted to young ones... "this is who they are" Noone wants that for themselves. Do we accept that as a social norm? I'm sick an tired of the big government making these issues our norm. We are forced more rapidly to not only tolerate it, but for it to infringe upon us.
I say if they want the recognition....let "them" pay for their own bathrooms, giving them all the privacy they could possible need.
Steven As a single Mom /now grandmother ...my question would be: what does a Dad do if his daughter has to use thee restroom?????? I can only assume either choice may be wrong in someone else's ideals ! NOT EVEN VENTURING INTO THEE TRANSGENDER POOL?!?!?!?
This issue is absolutely ridiculous to me. I don't agree with it, don't like it, I am being made to feel uncomfortable about using a public restroom all to pacify some. It has always been if you have one, you belong in the men's room, if you don't have one, the ladies room is for you. If he goes through the surgery and doesn't need a urinal any longer, fine. Will we now have urinals installed in the ladies room and do I need to see that, NO. How do I know if it is some male who is identifying or is just a creep or worse? The businesses should be forced to provide a unisex toilet for those who don't care, I do. As any woman can attest, the lines for the ladies room are always super long at public venues i.e. theaters, sports functions, the circus. I bet when "she" sees those long lines, "she" will then identify with a "he" and head off to the men's room.
justwondering I don't use men's rooms, so I can't comment on that.
But seriously, how do any of you who use the woman's room know what equipment anyone in there has? I don't believe I've ever used a public restroom with another person and knew what equipment she had. For all I know I've been peeing in a stall next to transvestites for years.
Maybe I'm strange, because I just get in there, do my business, clean up and get out. Often I don't even make eye contact with the others in there, let alone look them up and down for an Adam's apple or listen to the tinkling in the next stall to determine if it's coming from on high. To be honest, it's a little disconcerting to think people may have been paying so much attention to me in there.
Maybe I've been doing it wrong all this time.
Aquarius You see, this issue isn't going to end anytime soon. Once you're conditioned to accept transgender or really just members of the opposite sex in your restroom, you'll be told that you're a bigot if you're uncomfortable to have them in your locker room, then shower. Its just part of an absurd liberal agenda. Whatever, I guess a few trips into the mens room at my work would make any female transgender reconsider their new privilege. It's kind of gross in there.
Caged Animal Do we really need a law. What have all these people been doing all these years. It's just PC nonsense, so we are forced to treat them as special. We have cameras all over for safety. Put them in bathrooms.That will treat everyone equally. I never check out people in a bathroom. I do my business and get out. If one came in, in a dress I might give a glance. There is no privacy in public. Big brother is watching!!.
I may or may not check who's in the restroom when I use it but I can tell you that you better believe I do check who's in there when my young daughter needs to use it. When that door closes you don't know what's waiting on the other side.
I wondered if anyone in Hackettstown might be precariously preoccupied with transgender people occupying bathrooms. Do you think it is the gender or the room that of more interest or importance?
Of the 116 entries to date, the winner is...wait for it.....JeffersonRepublic who holds the transgender bathroom response record of 20 fascinating insights into transgender people in bathrooms. Hackettstown's resident transgender expert, he has provided an in-depth series of transgender toilet tomes. He just loves this stuff owning 17% of the total entries and folks, he is not concise when it comes to transgender toilet customs. He is a wealth of information with his deep dives into transgender's in our bathroom's.
Just behind JR in the transgender toilet is ChristIsRisen with 13 delectable diatribes and 11% of the total. Appropriate that ChristIsRisen is breathing down JR's submission neck in the transgender bathroom experience.
That's right folks, almost one-third of Hackettstown's transgender preoccupation is held by only two righteous posters.
Hamlet
"Madam, how like you this play?"
Queen
"The lady doth protest too much, methinks"
Good post by Curt Schilling. People need to get a life...
https://38pitches.wordpress.com/2016/04/19/the-hunt-to-be-offended/#comments
Greg That's funny. Isn't Curt Schilling the guy who went out of his way to try to ruin the lives of a couple guys who said things about his daughter on Twitter that "offended" him? Hypocrite is what he is.
@ianimal, Interesting perspective, grown men tweeted about raping his underage daughter with various objects, and they lost their job with the Yankee's. So he defended his daughter which I think most fathers would, and it's his fault these denigrates lost their jobs, not their own. It also means should gives up his right to voice his opinions. Yes that makes sense.
Denis I don't know if I'm remembering the specifics exactly, but I'm pretty sure the knuckleheads in question were college students and the girl was an incoming freshman. So, it was more on an equal social footing than "grown men" and an "underaged girl".
And no, I don't necessarily blame him for going after those guys. But the lesson there is that your words have consequences. So, don't whine when something stupid that comes out of your own mouth has negative effects on your own life.
"But the lesson there is that your words have consequences. So, don't whine when something stupid that comes out of your own mouth has negative effects on your own life."
But it seems you don't feel that way for the "knuckleheads"? Or am I reading you wrong?
If the "knuckleheads" can say whatever they want, so can Schilling. And if the "knuckleheads" suffer consequences, so be it- it's on them. Ditto Schilling.
Absolutely I feel the same about them. Your last two sentences mean the exact same thing that my comment that you quoted does, as far as I can tell. Do you see some distinction between the two that I don't?
Aw, strangerdanger is upset. He also has nothing better to do than track how many comments people make. How sad.
LOL!
But for the record, then, I am putting YOU in the category of those who hate naturally born women and do not feel they have a right to a bathroom of their own.
JeffersonRepub & ianimal -
Here you go again -.parsing each others words on yet another meaningless topic, trying to defend your self-proclaimed literary or journalistic skills. What are your actual positions on the topic, if any? My position is that transgender bathroom policies do not matter when there are so many other life threatening issues today. Parse this: Why do I read this tripe?
It's the human interest part of a possible budding bromance intertwined with uncertain gender identities that peaks our prurient interests DannyC. I mean on one hand we have JR's over-the-top fascination with transgender bathroom politics followed by his special "feelings" for knuckleheads.
On the other we have Ianimal attacking Shilling for defending his daughter because words have consequences, a strange story in itself since Shilling, in a rare moment, was right.
Our resident trans aficionado, JR, is putting Shilling forth as some sort of font of knowledge and principals when, mostly, this guy is ignorant on most issues except baseball, and some question that. A poster child for "words have consequences" Shilling most certainly is, but not for this extremely rare and perhaps singular positive example.
Shilling basically outed a bunch of slimeballs for maligning his daughter. Bully for him. I guess they though they were anonymous but probably were not, by their own words again no doubt. Their words were shameful and untrue; his were fair, legal, and deserved.
Most often when Shilling speaks beyond the pitcher's mound, he balks the message. Lately, and to keep on issue, Shilling was involved in this tweet battle: "shared a post that showed an overweight man wearing a wig and women's clothing, but parts of the T-shirt were cut out to show his chest. Next to the photo of the man was text that read: "LET HIM IN! to the restroom with your daughter or else you're a narrow minded, judgmental, unloving, racist bigot who needs to die!!!" Schilling then added: "A man is man no matter what they call themselves. I don't care what they are, who they sleep with, men's room was designed for the penis, women's not so much. Now you need laws telling us differently? Pathetic." (FOX Sports)
That one got him fired from ESPN: yes, words do have consequences. Enjoy your liberty in the blogosphere Curt. Carry on :>)
strangerdanger -
Analysis of HL posters is not what I was looking for, and just makes matters worse on this thread. The point is that issues are not addressed and should be, even if they do not matter that much. Get off the "poisonality" kick, please.
The transgender bathroom issue is meaningless, and Cruz is hurting himself for taking a position on it. He should drop the subject.
Sorry you didn't get what you want and that you feel that I have made things worse for you by analyzing the "poisonality" of it all.
I did mention Shilling's comments on the subject and the response he go for it. No DannyC bonus points for that nuanced segue back to topic eh....... Tough crowd. :>
You completely missed my point, Mrg. I wasn't attacking Schilling for defending his daughter. I too thought it was the right thing to do and would have done it myself if it was my daughter and I had the necessary resources.
I called him a hypocrite for using "the media" to get revenge on someone who offended him and then later whining about "the media" attacking him for offending others. You can't have it both ways.
Danny,
I don't what to say man, you seem to have a problem with people commenting on all these threads, wanting to know "what can be done about it".... what are YOU going to do about it? I mean, we're just having a discussion here, but that doesn't seem "productive" enough for you....
...all due respect, and all.....
Ian,
got it- we're on the same page. Was just making sure you weren't being a hypocrite, calling "hypocrite!"
"Our resident trans aficionado, JR, is putting Shilling forth as some sort of font of knowledge and principals "
Please illustrate where I did anything of the sort?
I slapped myself; words do have consequences :>) Actually.... (ever notice how actually really means, "you're wrong bonehead and I'm gonna show you why.....:>), well, actually he used the "new media" of the internet and the rest used themselves. I think the brilliance was how he "tracked" down the posters proving the first and second rules of anonymous posting. 1. nothing's really anonymous on the internet and 2. if you used a pseudonym but tell folks where you live, what you do, who you're friends are, chances are --- you can be easily found.
Unlike the topic we're on now where someone has to look under your dress to be able to enforce these stupid laws.
What I love is England has posted travel advisories for North Carolina and Tennessee telling folks these are not friendly places and telling LBGT-ers how to act appropriately to avoid danger in those states if they just have to be there. But otherwise, just avoid the states.
North Carolina has the most to lose as their economy will be feeling the dollar effect soon from a lack of entertainment (which will drop tourism too), major sports events like the all star b-ball game being cancelled, companies opting out, and I am sure more soon. Even if they do nothing with the law, the major arenas will have to address the issue themselves or start looking at smaller revenues. Other businesses will suffer next and certainly new investments in the state will be reduced even if for no other reason than "all things being equal, we'll avoid NC and go to the alternative choice."
Note this is not economic PC warfare by liberals but PC common sense economic survival by businesses run by all sorts of political persuasions.
As far as being "our resident trans aficionado," I posted your numbers above for how often you post on this thread. Of course you do machine-gun post. My bad on the rest, I misread things all together. Sorry bout that.
CIR: "But for the record, then, I am putting YOU in the category of those who hate naturally born women and do not feel they have a right to a bathroom of their own." Hmm, not sure what you mean "naturally born women?" Got to be one of the wackier HL conclusions so far. How do you define that? Going for type of delivery, chromosomes, genitalia or something else?
JeffersonRepub - As Cruz should do: Drop the subject of transgender bathroom policies and address real life threatening issues. Start with ISIS, both embedded in the US and crossing the border from Mexico. What can or should anyone do about where people take a shit? Nothing more from me on this thread. Out of here.
At least my "machine gun posts" are short and to the point- no one needs to go take a pee break before reading mine like they do before starting one of your run-on novels...
...uh-oh.... but which bathroom to use????
@ianimal there is a big difference. The posts were made by adult males, one who already graduated college, and directed at underage girl still in High School. Any father would be furious. I can't post the tweets here, but you might want to look them up yourself. Him defending his daughter from vulgar sexual tweets, including innuendos to rape, does not mean he no longer is entitled to his opinion on other issues.
Man, that strangerdanger guy sure is long winded. Can someone just do a recap of his posts? I just can't devote this much time to reading this stuff. Let me sum it up for everyone boys have a penis, girls have a vagina. There's a sign on the bathroom door that determines what room you go into. If you're unsure , look down your pants. I fugured this out when i was 2. This is nothing more than a liberal power play.
Said it before....."If these transgenders want bathroom privilege's because they are special...let them pay to build their very own for the use."
Everyone "wants", because they are entitled...let them pay for it.
Are you sure about that Ravi; you better check. But we will abide no fugering out on HLife. Stop that.
"This is nothing more than a liberal power play." Pretty amazing that a Republican law to control something that has never been an issue because no problems exist is somehow a liberal power play. All I know is too much government control Republicans want to spend police time and money, as Ravi would say, "look(ing) down your pants."
I don't care who uses what bathroom. If there is a line for the ladies room and the men's room is empty, I'm using the men's room. Why are people so concerned about who is in the next stall??
I am WAY more concerned about the number of people who don't wash their hands after using the bathroom.
gpg Denis, there is no difference. Whether you are a drunken frat boy tweeting vulgarities at 3 in the morning or a middle-aged ex-ball player with a big mouth and no self control, you are responsible for the things you write online. Whether you are being offensive to a single 17-year old girl and her father or thousands of transgendered people and their loved ones, there are going to be consequences for your need to voice your "opinion" in a public setting. You can argue whether or not that "should" be the case, but it really can't be debated that it is the current reality.
Now, if Curt still had "f-you" money, he would be free to spout his asinine opinions to his heart's content. But, since he blew all the money he made playing baseball on an ill-advised foray into the video game development market, I have a feeling that he really needed that job at ESPN that his big mouth lost for him. Maybe he'll learn something from this, but I doubt it... especially since he's taken to blaming the victims of his offensive comments.
ianimal since you think there is no difference between adult males tweeting vulgar obscenities including references to rape to a specific under age girl, and him tweeting about the absurdity of the new bathroom laws I'm sure we will never agree, so no need to debate further.
Denis, I'm not saying that one isn't worse than the other in a matter of degree. But, there is no fundamental difference in that employers don't want anything to do with people stupid enough to do either one. That's why they all got fired... and deservedly so.
Just because you can relate to a father's love for his daughter but can't relate to a father's love for his transgendered daughter, that doesn't give Curt Schilling the right to mock and denigrate transgendered people without having to face the consequences of his actions. Those consequences are between him and his employer.
Stpehan A. Smith ( who I'm a fan of ) can make a comment insinuating a ray rices girlfriend was partially to blame for getting knocked out, Rob Parker can insinuate Robert Griffin is a Uncle Tom because he is engaged to a white woman but they get suspended. I'd say both of those comments were pretty stupid as well, didn't result in firing. I actually don't have a problem with firing Schilling, my problem was with you calling him a hypocrite for defending his daughter. If I had a transgender kid I'd still love them, but I wouldn't want them imposing their distorted view of reality on everyone else.
Denis - "If I had a transgender kid I'd still love them" + "their distorted view of reality" = I don't believe you.
GC why? My kids have to see the world the way I do in order for me to love them? Maybe that's how your family is, but not mine.
Denis, I believe that GC is saying that if you truly loved them, you wouldn't dismiss their existence as "distorted reality" and "love them anyway". You would believe them when they relate their gender identity issues to you and understand that your own personal experiences do not constitute the whole spectrum of humanity.
ianimal, I get what GC is saying. I can believe someone identifies how ever they choose, but that doesn't change basic psychical facts, and the laws of nature. Reality is not based on my own personal experiences, by the same token its not based on how someone chooses to identify. It is what it is.
target stores new transgender bathroom policy has driven away over 500,000 customers who have signed a pledge to boycott Target stores.
Target is slated to close stores this year due to poor sales, can they really afford to lose another half-million paying customers?
One thing confuses me...
Conservatives frequently use the argument that criminals by definition don't follow the law so gun laws are largely pointless and punish only the law abiding. I completely agree with the sentiment and it's one of the most rational arguments the conservatives have.
But, they have no problem turning around and making the argument that we need laws to keep transgendered people from using the bathroom of their choice because it will allow sexual predators to use them? If a rapist wants to attack a woman in a bathroom, will fear of punishment of breaking the law forbidding him to enter a women's bathroom be a deterrent? It's probably the most ridiculous stance ever.
So which is it? Should we punish the law-abiding in a futile attempt to stop crime or not?
And I realize that liberals are just as hypocritical... only in the reverse.
Ian,
Good points- and that begs the question asked earlier, why have "sexed" bathrooms AT ALL? Just have unisex bathrooms (or would that be OMNIsex?) If no one is worried that "someone will try something", then why do we have gender-identified bathrooms in the first place?
auntiel - So what do you do with someone who has *both*? There are such people. What about people with neither? John Bobbitt for one. Not to mention that's against the law in NC. There it doesn't matter what you have, it's what ever was on your birth certificate, even if it was wrong. Even if the doctors operated on some poor kid without the parent's consent and altered their sex only to be discovered later. That's actually happened more than once.
Denis - "the laws of nature" That's the whole point Denis. Science is finding out more about how gender is not something simple. It's not just one or the other. There are all of the cases I pointed out before where some people are neither male nor female, or they're both, all because of the laws of nature. Gender is not 100%. Not accepting what your family says about something so basic as gender isn't the same as arguing over politics or who has the best pizza in town.
Here's the real point. There is no problem except in your mind. There is precious little evidence of a crime except in your mind.
So you are creating a crime for which there had been little or no offense except in your mind. You are protecting yourself against that which has rarely happened by creating a different crime for someone who had done nothing wrong that ever mattered to you before you created a new crime to protect you from a non existent crime.
I think that's called fear.
+1 GC. For most, this is simple. But for some it's anything but.
Sometimes, the doctors have operated on the child with the parent's consent, choosing the gender that seems the most "likely." Only to find out later that what seemed likely at the time probably wasn't the right choice. I have a family member like that. Assigned at birth to female, with the surgery performed, and it wasn't until much later when puberty occurred and there was no menstruation that the choice came into question.
Sorry GC, the examples you point too extremely rare. For 99.9% of the population gender is that simple. I can accept that someone identifies some way, and support them. That doesn't mean I have to pretend that someone who is born a Man, ( and has no rare medical condition ) is a woman because they say so. Some things in life you don't get to choose. Since when does a parent have to agree with life choices there kids make to still be capable of loving them.
Syou're saying that something that only occurs in one birth out of every 1,000 (actually between one and three) is unworthy of recognition? Let's eliminate and invalidate everything with a similar frequency of occurrence? Should we defund juvenile cancer research, is that what you're saying?
Ianimal clearly you missed the point, and your comment about defunding juvenile cancer research is beyond ludicrous! Even If I go with you 3 in 1,000 that still makes it extremely rare, and doesn't mean that now everyone else is free to choose what sex they are, and have everyone else accept it as fact of nature. It's just nonsense.
No, ianimal isn't missing the point at all. He's got the point. Transgender people ARE rare. Juvenile cancer is just as rare but because it's "acceptable" it's considered something worth making a big deal over.
ianimal - It's even worse than that because each one of those conditions has at least a 1 in 1000 rate, some twice that or more. Put them all together and the rate gets as high as something like IBD - Crohn's/Colitis. How many people know someone like that? How many people here have met me personally, or Christine, or the others on HL with IBD? Are all of us going to be denied our medications because we don't exist?
The conditions listed were just the ones with a genetic basis. What about other hormonal issues? Or those surgically altered? And other medical issues? Those kind of numbers all together start to look like 3+ million people in the US alone. That's at least one to two people for every graduating class at the high school each and every year. How much is enough to get over the rarity hurdle and get out of denial?
That's an excuse.
Sorry it's you guys living in denial of some of the most elementary biology 101. Curious what sex would you classify Bruce / Caitlyn Jenner?
Yes, yes, yes. Perfectly put, GC.
Just because these conditions make people uncomfortable, that doesn't make them less real.
Christine Biology isn't "elementary"; it's actually extremely complex. Perhaps that belief is the fundamental problem you're having with accepting reality. Luckily that ignorance appears to be diminishing generationally.
If I told you that my father believes pretty much the same nonsense that you do and that "I love him anyway", would that impact your overall opinion on the subject? My guess is not, but that's ok... time marches on, and so does progress.
ianimal we are pretty much going around in a circle here, I feel your point of few is nonsense as well, and I feel it's you who doesn't want to accept reality. Not much point going on.
Christine, based on what?
Joe M I'm sure my family member wishes biology was "elementary." If it was, the decision to assign "female" on the basis of a superficial examination of immature genitalia would not have caused a lifetime of pain and doubt.
It would be nice and comforting if things were that simple, but sometimes they are not.
Aquarius, thanks for sharing your personal story here and introducing some actual reality to this discussion. I'm sorry your loved one has to deal with the lack of compassion demonstrated in this thread. Fortunately the world is changing for the better in some respects.
Gadfly It would seem only Christine wants to answer the Bruce / Caitlyn Jenner question, ( the only person of questionable sexual identity I that we all know ) but does not want to divulge how she came to that conclusion.
Kaitlyn Kardashian's motives are suspect. However, that doesn't have any bearing on the legitimacy of any other transgendered individual.
That's like saying that because of any misconduct by a police officer, that it invalidates any authority any police officer is entitled to anywhere.
My point is who cares. If there is jo crime, why do we need a law creating one?
ianimal, first it was juvenile cancer research, and now it's comparing Caitlyn's motives to police officers. Stop with the ridiculous metaphors and stay on topic if you still want to carry on. I notice you dodged the question assuming that you can question his her motives. On the other hand no should question a a man who says he identifies as a woman and want's to use the female bathroom, or high school kid who wants to shower with the girls?
This is the guy behind all this bathroom crap....
"Terrence Patrick "Terry" Bean is an American political fundraiser, a civil rights activist, and a pioneer of the LGBT rights movement. He is known for co-founding several national LGBT rights organizations, including the Human Rights Campaign, the Gay & Lesbian Victory Fund and the National Gay Games (external reference needed to support co-founding of Gay Games). As of 2012, he is the CEO and President of Bean Investment Real Estate and resides in Portland, Oregon."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Bean
$200,000 offer ends 'gay' Democrat's child-sex charges
"Democratic Party fundraiser and gay activist Terry Bean made sex-abuse allegations with a 17-year-old boy disappear on Tuesday thanks to a $200,000 settlement offer.
Terry Bean, 67, faced child sexual-abuse charges over a September 2013 incident that allegedly occurred at a Eugene, Oregon, hotel with his ex-boyfriend, 25-year-old Kiah Lawson, and the teenager. Lane County Circuit Judge Jay McAlpin dismissed the case when Lane County Chief Deputy District Attorney Erik Hasselman said the teenager declined to testify, the Register Guard reported Wednesday."
http://www.wnd.com/2015/09/200000-offer-ends-gay-democrats-child-sex-charges/
RU Thanks, Gadfly. I know my family member has struggled both internally and externally with reactions to this issue for more or less her whole life. Even among those who knew the facts, for the longest time, it was something to deny. Some went to their grave with that denial. I think it was with the best of intentions, but still.
It is heartening to see things changing.
Wasn't Jesus the accepting type on how you were made? Or am I missing something? (Before it's taken the wrong way, I mean how you feel on your own personal level that no one but you can feel).
I guess Denis thinks that schizophrenics, manic-depressive, or some other brain issue will change the way he feels about a child. I am not saying that a transgender person has anything wrong with them but I do know that what they feel is a real as can be. They think like the other sex, they want to be the other sex, and nothing will make them happy unless they can be the other sex. I am happy they have choices and it makes no difference to me if someone is a woman or a man in name only using a bathroom as they are dressed and acting. All of the transgender people I have met do not look odd or out of place in their manner of dress or how they comport themselves. I have met more effeminate men who people might suspect of being a transgender then a transgender who does not look the part. Appearances are deceiving and confusing at best.
MK SD said,
"Here's the real point. There is no problem except in your mind. There is precious little evidence of a crime except in your mind.
So you are creating a crime for which there had been little or no offense except in your mind. You are protecting yourself against that which has rarely happened by creating a different crime for someone who had done nothing wrong that ever mattered to you before you created a new crime to protect you from a non existent crime.
I think that's called fear."
Now, if you will only take that and apply it to your gun control beliefs.....
pmnsk Denis, I've heard estimates that she stands to profit somewhere in the neighborhood of 500 million dollars, which would probably be enough to get YOU to don a dress and wig.
I was thinking that JR - if gun buster signs don't work why would bathroom signs lol
skippy MK another person making a weak metaphorical leap, and it sounds like you you are lumping in transgender people with people suffering severe mental illness.
ianimal no one doubts he she is a media, and money whore. I did notice you still don't want to answer the question.
Denis: what problem is this law protecting you from and do you have examples of transgender's transgressing on someone's rights in the toilet? Like does this happen at the 1% level?
I just don't understand why Republicans just have to have a law for everything that hints of gender or sex. Why be transfixed on transgender? I mean we have JR for that, we don't need another law. I mean for the party that's been most often caught in the loo with their proverbial pants down, it would seem this law is just aimed at shooting themselves in the gender bender.
Ok then we are clear you think Jenner is a female. This is the same person who won the decathlon in the Olympics, and feat I'm sure even you would agree that would be impossible for a woman to achieve competing against men. Someone who produced offspring as a male, and who as far as you know still has all of the original anatomical bits a pieces of the male anatomy. Just because Jenner now wears' dresses, and fake boobs "she" is a woman. This must be "extremely complex biology" you speak of. I'm the one who has a problem accepting reality, yeah ok!
LOL... I knew you had a tirade just waiting to be ejaculated. Did it feel good to finally get it out?
I think Jenner thinks she is female and is living her life as a female. As such, and since it doesn't have any impact on my life or anyone else's but hers, I'll refer to her using feminine pronouns.
But no, she isn't one of the true genetic anomalies. So what? That doesn't mean that they don't exist.
ianimal the hypocritical nature of your argument has been exposed. Your narrative begins to fall apart based on your own statements. Now you resort to crude comments and insults. So typical, and lame. Carry on with out me.
What are you talking about? What crude comment? How did I insult you? And go ahead and feel free to point out my hypocrisy if you can. You're the only person here with a leaky narrative.
Denis you missed the point of my post. I was trying to point out that you disregard the mental aspect saying that if you are born one way that is what you are. People are a combination of mental and physical which you dismiss as "complicated". You cannot separate the way a person is and how they feel and only take the physical biology as the person. You entirely dismiss any consideration that a person is not what natal biology says they are.
strangerdanger I don't think I made any comment in reference to any particular law, and for the record, I'm a former Republican, I've been registered as an independent for a long time.
MK, I didn't miss that. I have no doubt that some people feel that way. I don't understand the connection to mental illness, and the leap to my feeling on the subject you made.
Denis, my bad. I figured you were on topic and not off the reservation.
The law is Republican independent of your particular political bent. Just pointing out they ate making law where thete has been no crime.
SD: "Can you explain how I would ever do that JR?"
Come on, we all know know you know..... you can do it.... pmnsk "got it", skippy "got it"... surely "the great and powerful strangerdanger" can figure it out....
Yes SD your bad, I was directly responding to specific posts here. What is my particular political bent?
I know I wouldn't be at all uncomfortable using the woman's room with Caitlyn Jenner.
Aquarius, you may feel comfortable but many women and Mom's with children would not be. Just my opinion of course.
kb2755 kb2755, would they be more comfortable explaining to their kids why there's a woman using the men's room?
Good point I guess it would be confusing to the kids trying to explain why the "woman" is peeing in a urinal.
How am I being hypocriticall here. By not understanding what you seem uneilling to express in plain Emglish?
SD,
Plain english? I'm surprised you know what that is, given your postings.
Elli Personally, I don’t object to transgendered people using the restroom of their choice. But there are serious flaws in the way many of these laws are being written. My objection (and it has absolutely nothing to do with being a bigot against anyone in the LGBT community) is that these laws LEGALLY ALLOW non-transgendered people to use any facility of the opposite sex. There is no method to determine whether a person truly ‘identifies’ as the opposite sex, so everyone has to be admitted into any facility (restroom, changing room, shower, locker room) at his/her own word. Questioning that person’s motives would never be tolerated.
With these laws, a person who looked 100% male (male swim trunks, bare hairy chest, facial hair, etc) could enter the changing room at Camel Beach waterpark with no recourse while women and girls were changing out of their swim suits.
Is this a transgendered person who identifies as female? Is this a pedo who likes to leer at 5yo naked girls? A pedo who likes the more mature 14yo? A sicko who gets off on exposing his junk to little girls? Who knows? Who has the right to question it? No one.
What can these women and girls do? Complain to the owners? Call the cops? They would get a big SHRUG – TOO BAD. As long as this person hasn’t assaulted you or was CAUGHT taking video or pictures (good luck determining whether the cell phone in his hand is actually recording...) you are out of luck. Removing that man or questioning his motives would lead to lawsuits against the owner/police. He is legally allowed to be there if he claims to identify as a woman.
I don’t mind men peeing in the next stall, but I do have a problem with men in the women’s locker rooms at school, gym, and other public changing places.
How do we write laws to protect TRUE transgendered people from violence while peeing (apparently male to female TG get beat up in the men’s room?) without trampling the rights / safety of everyone else? I haven’t heard the solution yet.
I am inspired by Hank Arthur so I am going to start posting more often. I admire his is eloquence and in depth commentary.
I am also inspired by Saint Clement so I will try to combine these two influences whenever I post.
There is one river of Truth which receives tributaries from every side.~~~St. Clement
CBGB "Hank Arthur"??? There's no one posted here by that name. Just what exactly is "his is"?? I think the game is up.
How about getting rid of the concept of gender? As in nobody can be transgender b/c there is no gender. There is no male or female, man or woman, boy or girl. Just people. No more gender recorded on birth certificates or driver's licenses, marriage certificates, etc.
That will probably be next anyway, so why not start now?
ChristIsRisen - Just got to wait it out until people get into their 70's. No libido left, and difficult to pee, albeit every 3 hours. God has his ways of fixing things.
Lol DannyC. Well, laughing for now anyway. Maybe someday, not so much!
I don't care if a Transgender uses my restroom. They just better be dressed for the part. Makeup, shaved legs, with another girl of course, because we all go in groups, appropriately disgusted by pee on the seats. The real deal.
maja2 IDK what everyone is worried about, I mean, there's nothing to worry about... nothing is going to happen.....
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2016/05/02/florida-women-films-the-moment-she-chases-alleged-voyeur-out-of-target-store/
[of course, this is totally irrelevant because the incident didn't happen in the actual bathroom, right? Uh-huh.]
Yeah, that proves it. There's a transgender bathroom crime spree for sure. He had women's razors in his basket, a sex change waiting to happen.
Since I think everyone is stuck over identifying a transgender over a non-transgender person (and everyone's personal rights) - so much we have to make a transgender bathroom over a regular men/women's one - I'd simply think {just like kids had a "hall pass" to go to the bathroom, but more real how the State have people registered a driver's license to drive.....and disabled people have a WheelChair/disabled card, and etc.} once a transgender qualifies (for a card...issued by an official state doctor or person provides other official documentation) and/or registered (like it states on our Driver's ID (same for Non-Driver's ID card or Passport) that a person is a "T" (compared to a "M" or "F") or without a T simply identify a Male "considered" person a "F" or vice versa [whichever that T person identifies him/herself does], that should clarify and properly differentiate (and explain to those people with such question) - Where all perpetrators (people driving without a driving license....using the wrong bathroom without proper documentation) will learn by the long arm of the law - Otherwise, I do not have a problem having a transgender person using the same bathroom with me or my kids - Obviously, just like there are times/cases/people where a male can be caught in a male bathroom doing the wrong thing (but not stereotyped or discriminated like a transgender is, which is mainly raising this its issue), anyone can call authorities about that, the same way.
Let's not take "legally identifying" people (via like a marriage license, fishing license, plumbing license, driver's license, MD, DDS, PHD, etc.) as a form of discrimination or breaking people's "Freedom to ... rights" - as Humans have already/aslways "respectively" identified others (with certain rights over others) over thousands of centuries, so Don't be so Perturbed, fellow citizen ...King sir, Madam Lord of Welch, or etc.
LLC I didn't say it "proves" anything... but he could have walked right into the womens bathroom for his "discussion" with a woman had he wanted to. Target has said so.
Loved the balls on that woman!! " Mother--cker!!! Keep runnin' mother--cker!!!" LOLOLOLOL
Stop the bus JR. Aren't you the King of "I have never shot anyone, nor planned to commit a crime with a firearm, yet you want to make sure laws get passed to restrict my rights IN CASE I decide to do such. It's EXACTLY the same thing. It's the Minority Report."
But here you have: "IDK what everyone is worried about, I mean, there's nothing to worry about... nothing is going to happen.....[of course, this is totally irrelevant because the incident didn't happen in the actual bathroom, right? Uh-huh.]"
leading to "but he could have walked right into the womens bathroom for his "discussion" with a woman had he wanted to."
Sounds like a request for a law without a crime........
But I am sure your principles wouldn't allow you to jump to that conclusion.
DS,
Ha! Nice try. I haven't "requested" any law.... if you read above, you'll even see that I asked why we even have gender bathrooms in the first place.
For me, my position on the issue has nothing to do with "crime". For me, it's about what the people AT LARGE want.... and just because govt or Target says so, doesn't mean it agrees with the people. Target's stock has dropped, and they are now "meeting with" the boycotters for a "talk".... hmm..... I always say it: actions have consequences.
Personally, I think the individual business should do what it wants: in ALL matters. If Target wants to have anything-goes restrooms, fine. If a million people boycott them and cause their stock to drop, fine. If another business wants to have gender restrooms, fine. And if people boycott THEM because of it, fine.
It's all about actions and consequences. There is no discrimination here. If you are a woman, go in the ladies' room. If you are a man, go in the men's room. As far as hermaphrodites, all I can say is, we don't seem to have needed a specific law for them EVER, so I don't see why we need one now. This whole "identifying" nonsense is just that- nonsense. And should have no bearing. IMO.
The only way to REALLY "fix" this issue, and "keep everyone safe", is to, indeed, have INDIVIDUAL bathrooms. Everywhere. I can just see the bills now for retro-fitting the public school system with individual bathrooms..... that's ok, we'll just plant some of those Bernie Sanders money trees to pay for it.
I would "identify" as strangerdanger, but that would require me to write another 16 paragraphs, and I simply don't have the time.
littlelu, pretty sure if every bathroom/locker room/changing room was a private stall such as those porta johns, nobody would care.
"STOP THE BUS" DID DS JUST TRY TO MAKE A CLAIM USING PRINCIPLES FROM ANOTHER THREAD!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
oh man you are such a hypocrite, it's absolutely unreal, the same exact thing when done to you, you cry to mommy.....and start calling everyone names....keep punching air DS...it's getting you nowhere
Darrin You always hurt the one you love. Name calling suits you jr. And now you've begun a new branding campaign using Trumpanisms. How low will you go?
Do you really want to continue down your current path Darrin and join jr. in his demeaning name calling campaign?
You want to discuss topics, fine. Keep the rest to yourselves.
"Do you really want to continue down your current path Darrin and join jr. in his demeaning name calling campaign? "
Well, I guess if you say it enough times, someone will believe you.... you're taking a page from the politician's/mass stream media's playbook..... the only "name" I called you was "the great and powerful strangerdanger". And I said your postings are too long. For me, (and apparently others) anyway.
Unless you are talking about my re-naming you "DoubleStandard", which of course was in the OTHER thread, and OTHER threads, and things said in them, have no bearing on THIS thread....right??? Or are you practicing your double standard again? You really need to make up your mind, mg/sd/ds.
If you are talking about DS, it is more of a classification then a demeaning name. And if you are so offended by it, chances are you also are feeling guilty of it.
Other than that, to say JR is calling you demeaning names is a "purposeful lie"
Forum views aside, you have made statements about not calling others names, then yet are the first one to cast stones....also a double standard.
Loretta Lynch is too busy suing North Carolina than trying to get the death penalty for the man responsible for the deaths of four Americans in Bengazi.
Right on, kb2755. The Benghazi issue will never die, despite ridiculous transgender diversions.
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