Trump Third Edition
Martha I'll only vote for Trump if he's the nominee. Otherwise I'm on the Cruz/ Kasich train. I just don't think Trump has a good chance in the general.
1988LJ 
Larry 
gadfly What's sad is the number of people who will vote in November purely on party lines, even though they may dislike the candidate and their message.
I've had people tell me (and have read the same type of comments here) that "Trump scares me, but if he gets nominated I'll vote for him, I always vote Republican" or "I don't think Hillary would be a good president, but I've voted Democrat all my life."
One only needs to look to Washington (Democratic president, Republican Congress) or Trenton (Republican governor, Democratic Legislature) to see that two-party politics has become all about obstruction and nothing at all about compromise and working together for the common good.
We as a nation need people to start working together in government instead of devoting all their effort to working to obstruct the people on the other side of the aisle.
JerryG 
Hot corner 
iJay Ha! "working together" is PART OF all the corruption! Compromise for THIER sakes: "I'll scratch your back if you'll scratch mine"....
Not saying compromise isn't necessary, but it needs to be true compromise for the benefit of the American people, not for the benefit of those in power.
JeffersonRepub Exactly JR. The whole world knows the USA is corrupt but in a different form than most of the rest of the world. This form is through special interest lobbying groups. Hate to keep mentioning it, but it really is, for a large part, that simple.
History has proven that those in power do not give these things up willingly.
Fortunately, change is inevitable. Eventually all castle walls will collapse. Will the masses in this great country start to think critically or just continue to be dump consumers? If people just continue to spend their time on Facebook and the like the answer is no...
Hey Larry at least that "moron" Kasich was answering the questions last night. You had Cruz ask what he would do for women and then go on a 6min fairy tale story telling of how wonderful his mom and wife are. He was asked if he would sign a bill that is on the senate floor right now about prescription drugs and he talked about his sister instead of answering a yes/no question
Then of course you had Trump who spent the first half of his time talking about his campaign manager grabbing a woman and him putting out a pic of cruz's wife. The only thing I learned from trump was when he filed is financial papers he was told the were the greatest papers ever filed. I'm mean no one has ever seen papers like that before. They were really wonderful.
Darwin iJay,
To be clear, I think the lobbies are only PART of it. I also think the establishment- the actual elected officials themselves- will simply do whatever they need to to fill their own pockets and keep their cushy positions. I don't think the republican party cares if it loses the presidential election- they'd rather be "losers" but still be in DC, filling their pockets and living the high life, than winning or losing on principle.
Just like most union people for so many years have voted Democrat because they were told to- even if the democrat party does not represent their principles, the democrat party is who "made friends with" with unions, and gets contributions from the unions, therefore people fall into "voting for their job" as opposed to "voting for the future of the country." Selfishness and self-centered. I know of what I speak- I come from a blue-collar union family. And so does my wife. I've literally heard the words "I don't agree with him (candidate), but I have to vote my job."
Here's an excellent article on exactly who the so-called "establishment" is, and it's not just politicians....
America to the establishment: who the hell are you people???
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/election/article68042192.html
We the People, lost our common sense, and sold our power for less responsibility. We left it to others till there is nothing left but rich and poor. It was a nice experiment, for a while. History repeats it's self.
Old Gent There are things Trump says that I like, he wants to bring the jobs back, I get that.
However, I get the impression he only wants to do that for white people. I hope I'm wrong, but that's what my instincts are telling me.
Have to laugh at what Christie was saying, when he was claiming Obama had nothing to do with the economic recovery that's been going on. They sure were blaming him for everything when the recovery was really slow getting going. I remember Romney blaming Obama for high gas prices, but I heard nothing from him when they started coming down.
I often felt the GOP (and I'm registered in that party) was obstructing Obama just so a Democrat could not take credit for a recovery.
Politics is so poopadoodle.
Andy Loigu Andy,
You think Trump only wants to do good for white people, but yet you might vote for him anyway? Please tell me that's not correct.
I said I hope I'm wrong --- time will tell. I've still got until November to decide.
Certainly, I would not vote for a racist --- right now I'm not too sure just what Trump really is.
If the election was today, that would keep me from voting for him.
Andy Loigu Would you kindly explain what you mean by "he only wants to do that for white people" What exactly do you mean or imply by that? Enlighten us if you please.
Cynic
ChristisRisen Cynic, Andy clearly stated that it was an "instinct". There is no reason to justify an instinct or a gut feeling. It is what is.
I have an "instinct" that Hillary is a traitorous criminal.
I have a "gut feeling" that Bernie is on (or needs to be on) psych meds because he is at least partially insane. (he clearly was out smoking dope on the days he had Economics 101) Either that or he's getting senile.
I had an "instinct" that Obama was an anti-gun, America-hating, terrorist apologist, socialist.
So far, I'm 1 for 3. We'll see about the rest.
True JR, but without Special Interests the "establishment" will have a much tougher time.
Term limits is the answer and design of the founding fathers...
Term limits wasn't actually the design of the Founding Fathers, but I think it's a good idea. If it's good enough for the president, it's good enough for Congress and all judges as well.
Ok, not design but intent. It was their intent that serving in a federal representative position would be temporary. People would take turns representing their local constituents...
Really Gadfly, no reason? gut feel, instinct, doesn't matter, Andy said it, he owns it, can't explain or justify it, shouldn't say it, period....
I have shown that Trump’s plans are either unworkable or too expensive without anyone mounting a credible defense.
Illegal immigrant wall and deportation: too expensive and will not work. Answer: e-verify works and no tunnel or boat will circumvent. No wall is needed. Shoot, this guy can’t even build a wall around his own rallies. “Illegal sanderites” are always getting in.
Tax plan: you will be in recession waiting for trickle down and the Trump family makes a minimum of $2.6 Billion in profits.
Economics: when he brings jobs back to America by taxing US companies 35% on imports and somehow magically raises the resulting US factory job wages, someone will end up footing the bill. You can’t have good paying Union level or slightly lower paying jobs without the product costing more.
Foreign Affairs: Just a mish-mosh of stupidity backed by a team of unknown experts. Amazing how stupid on this subject Trump is especially in his desire to destroy NATO and pull back all our international support, troops, and equipment --- all of it. He knows nothing of world affairs.
ISIS: Wants to bomb everything including their families and then steal Iranian and Syrian oil for reparation. But will not nation build. Bombing won’t work, needs boots on the ground, lots of them, and it is un-American to steal the assets of people we are not even fighting.
ObamaCare – destroy it and replace with Canadian/Scottish Socialist plan or something that does not let people “die in the streets.” What?
Education, Infrastructure, etc. etc. There are no plans presented except some spin phrases capped by “I will make the best whatever you can think of because I am so smart, so successful, and such a great dealmaker.”
Pro Life: For sixty years, Trump was comfortably pro choice. As of yesterday, Trump said he would punish those choosing abortion finally bringing together America as pro choice and pro life alike condemned him. Then he said it’s complicated and therefore up to the states. Then he said if the courts abolished abortion, he would punish the doctors not the patients. Abba dabba doo?
But he answers the questions and speaks his mind. Yeah, as a pathological liar. And when caught in a lie, he lies even more: http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/ Just google Trump lies and a wealth of fabrications can be found. The man is continually and consistently lying.
Well you say: Hillary lies too and Trump is an outsider. Well no politician running for President lies like Donald Trump. No one. They all have plans, usually pretty detailed. Trump may be a political outsider, but he is a rich NYC big business establishment leader who has changed political positions more than any candidate running. Washington establishment no, establishment insider --- absolutely. And he has been buying local and national political influence for years working his establishment ties as an adroit insider --- in his own words. No one on HL has bought anything Trump for beyond books and chips. Trump caters not to us but to the same establishment fat cats he is part of. He’s just from the other side of the same street showing the ability to crossover whenever it profits him.
strangerdanger Bernie's tax plans are certainly detailed: raise EVERYONE'S taxes
http://www.youngcons.com/surprise-bernie-sanders-tax-plan-will-hurt-the-poor-and-middle-class/
JR, come on now, you need to pay your fair share so everyone can go to college for free. Money doesn't grow on trees as my father told me many moons ago.
kb2755 "so everyone can go to college for free"
Thereby negating the "value" of a college education as a competitive advantage in obtaining a well paying job. If everyone has a degree, it would be like waving around a HS diploma at a job interview... who really cares... it's a zero sum game.
Mark Mc. 
Personal profit is all Trump is about. He has never performed public service, his track record as a philanthropist is paltry. And his charitable contributions are miserly. Why do you think he avoids publishing his tax records?
How can any self-respecting Hackettstown woman support him: http://www.people.com/article/donald-trump-ad-women-read-negative-comments Trump’s response: “I never thought I would run for office.”
What’s up about advocating violence against the press and protestors? And when it happens saying: “I’ll pay the legal fees.” Or “I can’t destroy a man for that.” Are we looking to turn Trump rallies into our way of life? If he fans the fires of conflict there, what will he do when he leads the free world?
So the final defense is that he is speaking his mind although inflammatory, bigoted, and over the top. He is making a point, being theatrical, talking outsider, and will probably do the right thing that you really support. All I can say is you don’t know what will happen since this guy has supported both sides of any issue. Sometimes at the same time. You like the duckster's current twist, but if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck an looks like an ugly orange duck, odds are that it’s a huckster folks. Do you really believe that somehow he will become Presidential, practical, or sane upon election? Magically stop lying to you? Do you think the social unrest will be less upon his election and we will magically pull together as a team? Or will he set us upon each other, sit back, gather up those dying in the streets, and take no responsibility for the results. What do you really think is going to happen when what is happening in a private party closed-door, admission-only nomination process goes on the open stage as public policy, national regulations, and global administration? Fireside tweets?
I know. The rest are worse, the status quo can’t be fixed, kick the establishment out, we need racial change, ooops, I mean radical change and progressives are the problem. I get it. But Trump? Really? No plans, just performance. And one that agitates one group to target other groups and take physical actions. Take the man at his words (cause there's not much in writing, references, or personal history to go on :>)
Sd, I feel like your part of the Clinton camp. Such passion to knock trump you could right a book with all your long posts? Why bother? You should put a resume in with HC and maybe get paid for something.
Forcefed4door "Trump is a NATIONAL DISGRACE."
As is Hillary.
Hillary & Bernie are the best the dems have? And I thought the GOP field was bad....
Question: When will American voters get "Trumped out"? That is, get weaned from the "Survivor", "Big Brother", "Apprentice" and social media that he came from, his "I am winning" monotone, coupled with understandable rage at the Obama debacle?
What convinced me that Trump is unfit for POTUS was his statement about punishing women for abortion, while not attacking outfits that sell fetal body parts for profit, and his "making deals" which would promote nuclear proliferation.
DannyC To be clear, he did not say "punish women who have abortions." LET'S GET THIS RIGHT (and no I am not defending him)
He was asked a HYPOTHETICAL question: "IF abortion WAS ILLEGAL, should the women who have them be punished?"
Of course the answer is YES. Now, before all you pro-deathers jump, LISTEN:
If the act is ILLEGAL, you should be punished. It doesn't matter what the act is. Speeding, trespassing, lying to the FBI, or murder. And if abortion is illegal, that means it's MURDER.
It was a "gotcha" question, and most people are too blind in their emotional opinion on the subject to see the reality. Scammed and controlled by the mainstream media, AGAIN.
But then, those same people probably want to make all the illegal aliens legal, so..... I guess breaking laws doesn't matter to those people. Unless you smoke in public or break even minutely any law regarding firearms....
JeffersonRepub - That is BS spin. Trump said what he said because he was totally unprepared on the issue. If he can be easily tripped up by Chris Mathews, there is no reason to trust him with the nuclear codes. And what about fostering nuclear proliferation?
Trump is a terrifying prospect for the nation. Truly the least qualified candidate we have ever seen on either side. But l'm not that worried. Right now it's all about primaries, and primary voters are usually the angriest voters with an axe to grind, hence Drumpf's popularity. But once the broader populace comes out for the general election....they will likely be pulling the lever for someone else. I know l will.
Eperot No spin, unless you're a death-eater. Illegal is illegal, period. You shouldn't let your emotions on the abortion issue cloud your logic.
And I'm not voting for Trump, at least not in the primary, so as I said- I'm not defending him. And I agree he was tripped up.
JeffersonRebub - Don't you get it yet? It was not so much about the abortion issue, but about Trump's unfitness to be POTUS. And what you mean by "death-eater"? I am looking for unemotional logic in this crazy political scene and Trump is anything but that. Also, will you ever address the nuclear proliferation issue?
I don't have to address anything- I'M NOT DEFENDING HIM. FOR THE UMPTEENTH TIME. I'm not a "rabid trump supporter".... altho I must say, With all the anger and vitriol the Trump supporters have, I have seen an EQUAL amount of the same from the Trump haters.... even in my own family. ALL you people need to take chill pill.
But if someone asked me "should someone who breaks the law be punished?", the answer is YES.
It doesn't matter- unless Trump gets 1237, he won't be the nominee. The GOP has already decided to elect it's own nominee.... and it wouldn't surprise me if the GOP changes the rules before the convention to keep Trump from getting the nomination even if he DOES get 1237.
JeffersonRepub - That is about as relevant as the fact that 1237 is a prime number. All Trump talks about is winning. This is a Bizarre Sideshow (BS). Trump needs to address what is really important. Not happening now.
>>If the act is ILLEGAL, you should be punished. It doesn't matter what the act is. <<
There have been, and are, many unjust and downright insane laws on the books.
You might want to rethink that statement, JR.
jjmonth4 JR would be stuck on Stage 4 of Kohlberg's stages of moral development, Authority and Social order maintainence. All black and white. You do something against the law, you should be punished. Of course, l'm sure he's never gone over the speed limit or fudged a little on his taxes. ;)
"There have been, and are, many unjust and downright insane laws on the books."
Then the solution is legislate the laws off the books, but enforce them equally while they are there.
Letting them linger, but exercising "prosecutor discretion" to choose when/where they are applied is just a form of corruption. (See: All firearm laws in NJ)
"l'm sure he's never gone over the speed limit or fudged a little on his taxes."
And when he gets caught, is he not punished?
jj,
I don't disagree. But Matthews asked a "yes or no" question, and the way it was phrased, the answer would be "yes." But I agree- many unjust and immoral laws on the books. The problem is, getting us to agree on which ones they are....
Eperot,
You obviously don;t know me very well- I am ANTI-authority and social order maintenance! You haven't been paying attention.
So, when someone breaks in to my house, and they are armed, and I kill them dead with my gun, I don't want to hear from ANY of you bleeding hearts that I should be prosecuted "because that's the law".... (just because it agrees with YOUR opinions, of course)..... right? If I'm defending my family, should make no difference if I kill them, wound them, use a hollow point (legal, btw), or even if the pistol is unregistered.... RIGHT?
RIGHT? (come on now, let's see your consistency.... let's see you NOT be hypocritical....)
I have to agree with JR here. Obviously if something is a law, breaking that law is a CRIME and there should be PUNISHMENT, assuming I have my Dostoevsky correct. It's not a matter of whether the law in question should or shouldn't be a law; that's an entirely different argument.
Eperot, are you implying that there aren't punishments imposed for speeding and tax evasion?
ianimal "The problem is, getting us to agree on which ones they are...."
I think a reliable indicator is how many "exceptions" a law has for who it is not applicable to. If there's a good enough reason to have a law, it's good enough to apply to everyone.
MB Trump has no clear positions on anything, except his will and ability to negotiate valid, long-standing, lawful and moral positions away for the opportunities of the day. Such a deal-maker. That's entertainment today. Reality shows suck, but Trump's political run is demonstratively dangerous. God save America.
MB: Trump knew nothing about being pro-life, that is obvious from the tape. He knows now.
JR: You take Trump's statements to Clintonian levels of obtusiveness parsing plain speak into some sort of undecipherable piece of legalese. I have to agree with you however not sure you looked at the statements in a 360 mode. Sure, you can have your "He was asked a HYPOTHETICAL question: "IF abortion WAS ILLEGAL, should the women who have them be punished?" Of course the answer is YES." then you boiled that down to the philosophical essence of "But if someone asked me "should someone who breaks the law be punished?", the answer is YES."
But he was not asked your nuanced boiled down question and you are wrong on the first. If abortion was illegal, woman having them need not be punished, by law, if the law says that's the case. It's that simple. And that's what the majority of pro-lifers say. Write the law to make abortion illegal for DOCTORS to perform, thus it's the doctors who face punitive action. That's what most people who advocate pro-life and abortions bans have been saying for decades; Donald Trump just didn't know it.
He knows it now.
The reason that pro-lifers have come to this 'compromise" is that they would never win any election with the tenants of the law defined as you have outlined. Their movement would be marginalized.
Second, and you keep avoiding this, Trump also said: "MATTHEWS: What about the guy that gets her pregnant? Is he responsible under the law for these abortions? Or is he not responsible for an abortion?
TRUMP: Well, it hasn’t -- it hasn’t -- different feelings, different people. I would say no."
So a guy makes 50% or more of the decision, potentially selects the doctor, drives the patient, pays the bill, and Trump gives him the "get out of jail card free."
How's that stick in your principles? Can you say two-faced, hypocritical, unprepared POTUS-to-be.
Trump was an idiot on the subject, that's the takeaway. And his dialing it back, not one step, but two steps in two different follow ups delivered in machine-gun fashion just shows how unprepared he was on this major issue.
Makes you wonder about his other positions and plans. Good thing he does not have many actual written plans to fact check on in the future.
The Press has figured out there's higher ratings now in actually asking Trump to answer the questions. It's a new day.
Here's the text, just amazing. http://www.bustle.com/articles/151134-the-transcript-of-the-donald-trump-abortion-punishment-comments-shows-exactly-how-troubling-they-were
jd2 Possibility: Trump might say or do something illegal and be indicted very soon. With Hillary also in that shameful state, it would be a whole new election.
SD, we've been agreeing lately on some things, but again you obviously need remedial reading classes:
I AM NOT DEFENDING DONALD TRUMP. I have ZERO reason to try to make Trump "sound good" or be his apologist- I'm not voting for him.
I really don't know how much more plain I can be.
Iman, I am not arguing the right or wrong of it. Just the way it is, as opined by the groups mentioned probably for the reasons I noted. Nothing to do with your view or mine. I tend to avoid arguing positions on this one given the singular nature and the importance of this intensely personal issue.
I would note that comparisons and analogies are probably best left out the this unique moral, religious, and legal issue. Just not valid or productive.
JR, let me see if I got this right re your Trump position :>) So what? Your points stand and so do mine. Nothing about you supporting or not supporting Trump seems relative to what either of us is saying. Thanks for the update though.
I would note that methinks doth protest a bit much on this one :>) Almost trumpeting your position :>)
JeffersonRepub -
Plain, clear and understood...you are "NOT DEFENDING DONALD TRUMP", so there is no need to keep defending yourself. Now can we discuss politics without the Donald and the Clintons? Only with sane, law-abiding candidates. It could be the next scenario, and a most refreshing change.
I'm starting to wonder if it's worth the life energy to discuss politics.... nothing ever changes. Not really. We simply trade one clown for another, both parties play us against each other, they live fat and happy and give us the shaft. I'm really starting to not give a crap anymore, and just sit back and wait for the collapse- which WILL happen. It can't be avoided on this path to destruction that the govt has set.
I think I'll be packing up to go live in Old Gent's gulch.
I will say this:
The last 8 years has not worked. So if you want more of that, vote for Hillary or whoever the GOP nominates at their convention (it won't be Trump or Cruz.)
If you want to try something DIFFERENT, Trump and Cruz are the only 2 who will do that. Different good? Different bad? Who knows.... BUT I can remember SO MANY POSTERS here who were for Obamacare, despite all it's drawbacks, because "we have to try SOMETHING DIFFERENT"... OK then, elect Trump or Cruz if you want something different from what hasn't worked for 8 years.
Otherwise, continue in the squalor that is the disappearance of the middle class, and the transformation of the republic into an aristocracy.
JeffersonRepub -
I hope that you can turn that flag around before you retreat. Getting rid of Trump's insanity and the Clintons' freewheeling and illegal dishonesty gives me hope. Still optimistic about the future of the USA, sans a few nutsy politicians. Maybe you are, too. Let's rock and roll.
sans a few nuts politicians
Problem #1: they aren't nuts. They're sly as foxes. They know EXACTLY what they're doing.
Problem #2: they are a lot more than just a few... I'd say the VAST majority.
I'm ready! I was woken up along time ago... just waiting for the rest of the country to wake up, if it's not already too late..... talk to Old Gent, he's been waiting a LOOOONG time.....
>>I don't disagree. But Matthews asked a "yes or no" question, and the way it was phrased, the answer would be "yes." <<
I think we are conditioned to respond to "yes or no" questions with one of the choices the questioner has given us.
Problem is, the person asking the question in that manner is really seeking to validate his/her agenda.
My response to a manipulative question like that might be "yes", might be "no"...or might be "it depends." If the person asking the question didn't like the third option, and would not even hear your perspectives on why, I would tell them to f--k -off.
Also, I think this entire thread is a waste of lots of constructive mental energy.
How many talk-radio, and other media, shills have really influenced the outcome of this sick, dichotomous circus that we call "democracy" and "freedom of choice?"
Few, if any....and likely none.
But they do keep a lot of people enraged and engaged, just like our rulers want.
Think.
"I think we are conditioned to respond to "yes or no" questions with one of the choices the questioner has given us."
How seldom does a politician or any savvy seasoned press responder even answer the question much less with a simple yes or no. Even plain speaking Trump tried to divert his response on abortion punishments into a query on Matthew's views of the Catholic church apparently forgetting that founding father's separation thing.
The real question is has Trump jumped the shark or can he once again cauterize his recent wounds which would be mortal for the most adroit politician. His abortion debacle had to be stepped back, stepped on --- he offended pro's on both sides. That's a first. His nuclear option, rejection of NATO, and other foreign affairs freshman blunders scare anyone who believes our position in the world matters. The continued overshadowing of violence avocation, this time expressed by his own top aid, albeit a minor skirmish, still haunts him. His skewering by Wisconsin conservatives on everything from issues to decorum expected to be followed by a resounding delegate loss there will set the stage. It will be hard for him to find scapegoats in these recent affairs. He is running out of targets.
Can NY resuscitate him?
The difference in this election is that Trump using his showmanship flair and penchant for shock politics has become a media darling guaranteeing great ratings. Even top ratings if you can get the interview. Because of this he does not have to spend big money since we are funding his publicity with our ratings.
There's a great quote from CBS CEO said it "may not be good for America but it's great for CBS." That's better like better than a train wreck or a house on fire.
So we have this symbiotic relationship going on where it's in the media's best interest not to disqualify Trump by questioning him on the facts because good ratings is good for the interviewer and the network alike.. Like all good things made of little substance but great notoriety, this too has to come to an end like all fires ultimately burning out. Part of jumping the shark is that the media can make ratings now by tearing down what they helped create.
Enjoy the ride.
strangerdanger - Agree on all the showmanship and media points, but not enjoying the ride at all. Trump's mouth is his worst enemy, a loose cannon who might trip himself up in more serious ways than he already has. Will this toxic garbage fire burn itself out, or become the China syndrome for the GOP, leaving us with much worse?
jjmonth4 - Not "a waste of lots of constructive mental energy" when our children's and grandchildren's future in our country is at stake.
happiest girl - Agreed. But what can we do about it, except to wait for Trump to screw himself up big time next time? This entire "election" is a national disgrace, like many of us have never experienced in our lifetimes. "Super delegates" have changed the dialog from a "democracy" to a "representative republic", where delegate/representatives self-elect and actually are the government. IMHO, it is as rigged as Wall Street's automated programmed trading, and the only thing we can look forward to is somebody screwing themselves up with a fatal political blow. That most likely someone it Donald Trump.
The people chosen for our "free choice" vote are all sociopaths with varying degrees criminal behavior, parasitism, demagoguery and just outright misrepresentation of the facts....
The people who argue the merits of any of these assclowns, and that there are so many of them, is a NATIONAL DISGRACE.
Turn off your TV and talk radio. You are being played.
One of the greatest tragedies of humanity is that many of the better thinkers can....and have - repeatedly... be so easily turned to do the fundamentally immoral bidding of demagogic or authoritarian sociopaths.
Yeesh.
jjmonth4 - Yeesh...pretty despondent. Any positive suggestions? Understanding if your answer is "no", but not giving up on fantasies like "truth, justice and the American way" just yet, and Donald Trump represents none of the above.
DannyC - My positive suggestion is for all of us to expend our energies doing things that matter in our own sphere of influence.
This is not easy, at least for me. For instance, I am doing the same thing everyone else here is doing - trying to get people to step outside of their indoctrinated mindset and look at the status-quo differently.
It probably won't work, but I keep thinking if I could influence one person the butterfly effect might start to make things "right."
I also hope to win the lottery one day, but I seldom buy tickets anymore. The odds are stupefyingly against you.....just like thinking your vote really matters in national or even state elections.
Throughout history, far greater people than me have tried to turn the tide of mob insanity, and their success rate hasn't been that great. In the end, I'm doing the same pointless thing that you guys are.
Still....
BTW, barring any significant local races,I'm sitting out this election. Writing in my cat for state and national office might have made me feel good in the past, but it was just as dumb as others voting for the candidates chosen for them by their "rulers."
jjmonth4 - OK, so you have dropped out. Fine, but not me. Now doing everything I can to legally knock "dangerous Donald" out and win the election for a sane GOP candidate. Looking elsewhere for positive, workable suggestions and guidance. Meanwhile "things that matter in my own sphere of influence" include performing music, gardening and cooking for my family. Lots of relaxing fun, but in the larger, longer term sphere of influence, yet equally important, I believe that Trump must be stopped in his race to buy America as if it were a casino, golf course, pageant or parking lot, only to sell our country to anyone in what he sees as his best "deal". Can someone else help me out here?
"I said it twice .... and I'll say it again.
Trump is a NATIONAL DISGRACE."
I'll say it again too..
AS ARE HILLARY CLINTON & BARACK OBAMA.
"Can someone else help me out here?"
Danny,
There is no guidance available. I think a tipping point has been reached. Buy a copy of Atlas Shrugged. I'm serious- Old Gent felt this way many years ago; so it's not unusual to feel it now.... I don't know if this disaster can be turned around any longer. And as soon as I make the definitive decision that it CANNOT, I'm out. Let it burn. Not a pessimist at all- a realist. Let it burn to the ground, and start rebuilding on the other side. If we're going over the cliff, and we can't STOP it (not just slow it down)- I'm done. Rip the band-aid off, don't take 5 min to do a more painful job than can be done in 2 seconds.
I'm done voting "against" people. If I don't have someone to vote FOR, I'm not voting. I'm buying more ammo :)
Bunch of cynics. Get rid of Trump and the Clintons and it is a whole new world where sanity rules once again (not including Sanders' insanity). Pretty naïve, huh?
You say "cynic", I say realist. To recognize reality- especially when it is based on a long history- is not being pessimistic or optimistic, it is simply being realistic.
In the realm of politics, you need to not base your opinion/knowledge on only what is happening at that time- you have to temper it with everything that has happened politically in your lifetime, and in the history of the country. AT LEAST. Add human nature to the equation, and then you start to see a much larger, and truer, picture of the political world.
History repeats itself. Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. And history itself has proven this, time & time again.
Here's another good one to remember regarding all things political: fool me once, shame on you...fool me twice, shame on me.
When I was just a long time lurker on here, there used to be a "Dolly" that wrote a lot for the Dems. I was thinking of her in the present situation. She would have been over joyed over Bernie. I wounder where she is.
JeffersonRepub -
Thanks for the metaphores. Here is some history:
http://historymonocle.com/2016/03/19/brief-history-of-contested-republican-conventions/
"I'm done voting "against" people. If I don't have someone to vote FOR, I'm not voting. I'm buying more ammo :)"
Happy, happy, happy. And remember kids, this is not advocating violence, this is the realistic determination of the inevitability of history repeating itself as it always has resulting in Atlas shrugging the globe. It's JR's circle of life......or death.
Of course don't let the fact that Galt Gulch started in 2013 went bankrupt due to monetary and moral shenanigans. History does repeat itself. https://www.dollarvigilante.com/blog/2015/12/07/whatever-happened-to-galts-gulch-chile.html
Just saying....
SD,
You are truly amusing. I won't discuss the CONCEPT of "Galt's Gulch" with you, as you aren't wise enough yet to get it. I doubt you ever will be. But then, you're one of those who trusts government, so how wise can you ever be?
(No one is talking about the ridiculous place in chile, that has nothing to do with the concept.)
He did say that women should be punished for illegal abortions. Saw it with my own two eyes, heard it with my own two ears and on national television.
There's dem facts getting in the way again.
And now he says we're headed for a recession and he's the one to get us out of it. Classic, create a problem and scare so you could be the hero.
These are scary political times.
I wonder if Canada is going to close their borders!
iRun SD,
So now buying ammo is advocating violence? Well then, I'll go out now and buy some doves, since they symbolize peace. That should balance it out.
When you feel brave enough, please let us know what political blog you write for, and what your pen name is... we would all be very interested in reading reading more of your run-on diatribes at great length...
"When you feel brave enough" "as you aren't wise enough yet to get it. I doubt you ever will be" "so how wise can you ever be?"
Taunt on.
"I'm done voting "against" people. If I don't have someone to vote FOR, I'm not voting. I'm buying more ammo :)"
It's a material implication or conditional statement. If this, then that. Of course you implied the "then" to obscure the plain speak to blunt your absolute meaning. Perhaps you were just stringing independent thoughts together. Kind of like: Trump is a total liar based on the facts. I would like an Italian sub.
SD, the only one that can decipher your gibberish and knows what in the hell you are talking about is YOU.
Have fun playing with yourself.
Darrin Watch out... Walmart (and innumerable other sporting goods stores) has a whole display case of violence just waiting for someone to advocate it!
At least theirs is (mostly) behind glass. At Academy and Cabelas, the violence is so close you can *feel* it!
Buying ammo is a pretty smart thing to do, nowadays, if you shoot a lot....or hope to shoot a lot in the future. 9mm seems to be about the same price as .22 LR if you buy from certain sources.
Ever been to a cocktail hour where a fair number of people in the room were open carrying...and weren't LEO's? I have, and frankly felt way more social anxiety than fear for my life. Actually, I didn't fear for my life a whit...except for the cardiovascular risk associated with the fatty foods.
Here's the link for the most recent one, which I didn't attend...but would've liked to.
http://nhlibertyforum.com/
Challenge your beliefs, get out of the mental box you've been put in by the establishment (no, they're not "liberal...or else Bernie Sanders would be their god right now) media.
WE are so screwed if Americans don't wake up!!!
I am neither anti-refugee nor anti-immigrant, but we have allowed this to reach dangerous levels. I am PRO-AMERICA and will do my part to stop this invasion. Here's a great video on it by Jim Simpson, author of the book, "The Red-Green Axis: Refugees, Immigration and the Agenda to Erase America"
VIDEO BY JIM SIMPSON: http://youtu.be/8u4LfJXzQnw
AND AS YOU CAN SEE BY WISCONSINS FRAUDULENT VOTING RESULTS THE ESTABLISHMENT IS MOVING...
***FORWARD***
THE NORTH AMERICAN UNION (NAU), TED CRUZ, AND HEIDI CRUZ AS THE ARCHITECT VIA HER LEADERSHIP IN THE CFR--WHAT DOES IT REALLY MEAN?
If you want to know the truth about how the globalist puppet masters are positioning Ted & Heidi Cruz for a diabolical plot to open our borders to Mexico and Canada, please watch these videos. If you think we have problems now with our economy, liberty, illegals, and terrorism, and other threats to our nation, imagine the ensuing chaos!
Heidi Cruz: First Lady of the North American Union? (Interview with Art Thompson, CEO, John Birch Society)
http://youtu.be/NOx5WhDD75c
Ted Cruz: First President of the North American Union?
http://youtu.be/lNhp9H3yCsI
Former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich tells Fox News’ Bill O’Reilly at the 2016 GOP Convention in Detroit that the establishment is scared of Donald Trump because he “didn’t belong to the secret society [aka Illuminati]” and wasn’t involved in any of the 'initiation rites' associated with such groups." Yes, he actually said this. Here's the video:
http://youtu.be/QO6QwySsm-M
Keep in mind that "North America" does not refer to just the United States. North America includes the U.S., Mexico AND Canada. The North America Union (NAU) will strip us of our sovereignty! When Cruz talks about securing our borders, he is not referring to protecting the U.S. from our Mexican and Canadian borders, he is refering to the North American Union borders--around the perimeter of the newly formed union!
Trump was right about LYIN' TED!
sha44ss sha44ss - All your clips are ancient history and irrelevant. Trump was soundly defeated last night, but he is now blaming the GOP establishment for Cruz's win ("Trojan horse"). Sour grapes, no basis in reality.
It is so much more about being on one Candidates side or another DanC....America's Soverignty is at Stake and Donald Trump is not a Perfect Human Being but the only one trying to save us from the Powers that BE! Wake up!
"The video below gives a district by district view of just what the establishment and their media puppets are up to. It’s voter fraud and stealing the election, plain and simple. Why wait until things get messy in Cleveland when they can conduct their dirty deeds from the comfort of Paul Ryan and Reince Priebus’ home state?"
http://dcgazette.com/2016/wisconsin-voter-fraud-trump-leads-2x-district-district-search/#
DONALD TRUMP WILL EXPOSE THE VOTER FRAUD IN THIS COUNTRY NEXT AS HE HAS EXPOSED OUR LYING POLITICIANS AND CORRUPT MEDIA!...
https://themarshallreport.wordpress.com/2016/04/06/trump-is-on-to-the-fraud-and-not-any-happier-than-his-supporters-about-the-mess-what-will-happen/
Dubya started ISIS and the beginning of the depression . Trump is cocky like Bush Jr. with the brain of Paris Hilton. God help us if Trump is elected......
sparksjbc1964 Sparks, honestly, god help us of any of the current candidates are elected, they are all absolutly horriable. The question as usual, is who will do the least damage.
sparksjbc1964 - Ha! Quoting Paris Hilton, "That's Hot." Stupid quotes from "W" are too numerous to mention.
JerryG - What the hell does "Someone's tin foil hat is too tight again" mean? Speaking in plain English about real issues has its advantages: People can understand you.
Anyone want to speculate about Trump's defeat in Wisconsin?
As I see it, Cruz vs. Clinton = President Cruz.
+1 dannyC - i think you're correct, she carries way too much baggage to win, the email stench will follow her , the benghazi stench will follow her; the stench of her attacking women who were abused by her husband will follow her. . . . . .
that's a big steaming cloud of stench to ignore, (but most of the posters here on HL will find a way to do it, sadly)
the entrenched libs will have to get an awfully big clothes pin to hold their noses to keep out that overpowering stench that is Hillary Clinton.
good grief !!
BrotherDog The message so far from my seat. Bernie beating Clinton. An independent beating establishment. Trump, an outsider beating establishment. Establishment supporting Cruse because they have no where to go for now, but use him to get to a contested convention, then dump him. And the world turns.
Old Gent,
BUT...... if the establishment picks Cruz over Trump...... does Trump run 3rd party? Whole new ballgame....
Tin foil hat = sha44ss.
There is no "stench" to Benghazi, BD. A tragedy to be sure, but the bigger tragedy is how people use it as a political weapon, even after the current administration has been exonerated by Republican led House Select Committees. Should there have been an investigation? Yes. But by now (what did they have...like 8 investigations?) they owe the American people an apology for wasting their time and far more importantly, our tax dollars.
Old Gent - Supporting Cruz now and then dumping him is a fantasy. It cannot be done without destroying the republican party. These politicians are not that crazy. But Trump running as a third-party candidate if the little man does not get what he wants, now that is probable, and equally disastrous for the GOP and the country.
The establishment wins in the end. Follow the money. People woke up far too late as things got out of hand. People can not survive with out, big brother. To many generations are use to big brother. Trump and Cruz are just a hiccup in the master plan.
"There is no "stench" to Benghazi, BD. A tragedy to be sure, but the bigger tragedy is how people use it as a political weapon,"
You mean how the left used the non-existing "weapons of mass destruction" against Bush after the fact? "Bush lied, people died?
Old gent,
You're not really answering tho.... establishment "Wins"? How? By losing to Hillary? Unless you mean "wins" BY LOSING, in the long run, meaning they'd rather lose and keep control of their gravy train than bow to the will of the people....
Old Gent - So God has a master plan, what you call big brother? Not buying it. People CAN survive without it, as our path to survival: small government, strong defense, moral values. God save at least one hiccup, hopefully Cruz.
Wow, JR can't understand a "material implication or conditional statement" and can only respond with a snarky sexual innuendo. Sweet.
I would think JR and Mark would be supporting Hillary so they can expend more net worth into guns and ammo for JR's expected apocalypse.
In other Trump news, if that's what you can call it, Trump announced he will begin focusing on revealing his plans indicating a pivot to the other contenders. Finally giving in to the fact that all Presidential candidates except Trump actually have plans. Trump will now knuckle under and attempt to move from the dream to reality after over a year on the trail trying to make up some plans. Good luck.
After his massive defeat in Wisconsin, many wondered why he put so much effort in losing and why he kept saying he would win. He was magnanimous in his defeat saying "“By the time my attorneys are through with you, I’m going to own your entire state, lock, stock, and barrel.” “Not that I want to own it. Wisconsin is a freaking dump.” http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/trump-says-he-will-sue-everyone-in-wisconsin
And from the archives, in 2006 Trump said: "“When it’s completed in 2008,” he said, “this brilliant $370 million work of art will be an awe-inspiring masterpiece.” Wow, them's some walls he's talking about. In 2011, he paid out 90% of $3.16M of homeowner deposits in a fraud case.
For the ladies: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/04/06/disturbing-video-of-trump-making-lewd-comments-about-baby-daughter-dug-up-by-the-daily-show.html
"I would think JR and Mark would be supporting Hillary so they can expend more net worth into guns and ammo for JR's expected apocalypse."
A whole lot more people than just myself and JR will be doing that if Hillary wins.
Found a new forum for SD, although I would almost bet he is already there
http://www.democraticunderground.com/
Illuminating Mar. Says the guy who's been know to profit regularly from purchase of bullet stocks. Do you think it's that liberal thing, that female stigma, or both that's causing it :>) Least we won't be yelling racist!
Old Gent - A whole new GOP if Cruz is the nominee. Rise of the phoenix. A return to conservative principles and values. But with Trump, it would be a lethal train wreck, resulting in the Clintons ultimately trying to run every aspect of our lives.
"A whole lot more people than just myself and JR will be doing that if Hillary wins."
I'm more concerned with ammo prices skyrocketing and availability plummeting again, than of what Hillary might do to the country. ;)
Not really- if Hillary wins, there will be another big gun control push.
"A whole new GOP if Cruz is the nominee. Rise of the phoenix. A return to conservative principles and values."
While I think that would be great, I think it's perhaps too much positive thinking lol. If the GOP for some reason picks Cruz, Trump will be so pissed he'll run 3rd party. If for no other reason to guarantee the GOP loses. And many of the Trump supporters are so rabid for #nobodybuttrump, they'll follow him instead of sticking with the GOP candidate (not to mention many Trump supporters are democrats and moderates anyway)..... IDK what happens in a 3-way race, but the only way for Trump to NOT affect the outcome is for him to drop out.... and at this point, it seems it would take something catastrophic for that to happen...
Danny, all I can say is, you have more faith in the electorate than I do.
Que sera, sera
Whatever will be, will be
JeffersonRepub -
Fine. Let the blowhard bastard run as a third party candidate. He will lose for sure, but so might the Dems with their weak, under indictment or socialist candidates. Go for it, GOP with Cruz. It may take some changes toward conservative principles and values, but they can do it for the sake of survival.
values, values, values. What might these moral values be?
JR, don't seek refuge in cheap spin of trying to make my point on Benghazi mute by comparing it to Bush, especially because there were no weapons of mass destruction. Incidentally, I, as a liberal, was not saying so after the fact. I was saying it before the Bush administration got us involved in Iraq. Anyone with half a brain could see Hussein was a paper tiger by that point. He liked to push the UN around by refusing to allow inspections but it was his only card. And we all know about the Project for the New American Century neocon morons who, with members such as Cheney, Wolfowitz, and Rumsfeld, pushed Bush into regime change in Iraq shortly after Sept. 11. They wanted it from the beginning, and used the tragedy of 9/11 to make it a reality. 4,486 US military personnel died because of it, and trillions of dollars lost. You aren't even comparing apples to oranges on that one.
Danny C, Why the Republicans loose.
Dems usually swallow hard vote the party, no matter what. Winning is everything. If Repbs think the person views are futile to conservatism, they stay home.
Goldwater wanted to end social security. Got creamed, even by his own voters and it hasn't been the same since.
. Who took us off the Gold standard and just use the printing press.?
Ike sent 2 million wet backs, back to Mexico in operation Wetback. .
Ronald Reagan signed a sweeping immigration reform bill into law. It was sold as a crackdown: There would be tighter security at the Mexican border, and employers would face strict penalties for hiring undocumented workers.
But the bill also made any immigrant who'd entered the country before 1982 eligible for amnesty — a word not usually associated with the father of modern conservatism.
None of them did anything about the border. What is the main issue today. The BORDER !! They had chances and blew it. What party woke up the sleeping giant in the middle east, nation building.?.
"JR, don't seek refuge in cheap spin of trying to make my point on Benghazi mute by comparing it to Bush, especially because there were no weapons of mass destruction. "
Thanks for proving my point.... since you are saying "nothing" happened in Benghazi either. The right is using Benghazi exactly like the left used the weapons on mass destruction not being found. what's good for this goose is good for the gander, unless you're a hypocrite.
"Incidentally, I, as a liberal, was not saying so after the fact. I was saying it before the Bush administration got us involved in Iraq."
Oh well, maybe we should elect YOU as president, since you apparently have a crystal ball to see into the future. Why aren't you on the ballot?
Old Gent -
Today is like none before. I believe that miracles happen when it's balls to the wall. The republican party can survive and thrive with Cruz, not using him as a "puppet" or "Trojan horse" and then dumping him, but changing themselves back to the right stuff. And not being afraid of the resultant strength. Not necessarily another loss this time.
Link to info about the issues.
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/us/elections/candidates-on-the-issues.html?ref=politics
I can't find the other link, but read this somewhere yesterday.
If Trump doesn't get the GOP nomination and wants to run as a 3rd party Independent, he would have to apply to run on a state-by-state basis. 11 of the states have application deadlines before the GOP nomination is finalized. Each state has a different process to follow to do this. I'm sure he has plenty of staff to take care of all the paperwork, and getting all the signatures needed, but it wouldn't be as easy as just saying, yep put me on the ballots. And, if he did go this route, he would be missing from ballots in 11 states.
His other option would be to push for a write-in campaign. After all he's a master at getting free publicity.
hktownie I didn't realize she had all her products Made in China too.
http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/04/06/ivanka-trumps-chinese-made-scarves-are-recalled/
Bonv 
"Don't tell me about China, I love China."
"How can you not love China"
"I know China."
"We have a huge trade deficit with China."
"I will fix China"
"I will bring back jobs from China." Well, he can start today with the thousands of jobs he and his family have shipped overseas.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDrfE9I8_hs
Common sense, if you like to make money and have the ability to greatly increase your revenue, make it in China. There's no argument there. Trump knows first hand it's a major problem because he does it lol. He wants to turn the problem around so even he can have products manufactured here. So there is no attack on trump for doing what everyone is also doing. But there should be major credit given to him for wanting to fix the problem.
If nothing else is accomplish this voting season. All the newbie's and others are waking up to the fact that, primaries are nothing more then a POLE.. The power brokers and Money, are always in charge.
Yes, it is common dollars and sense to produce products in low cost nations like China. For Trump, there is a difference though.
If Trump products were on Wal-marts shelves as price leaders one would expect them coming from low cost suppliers. Trump products are generally luxury products supported by the Trump brand, a brand that caters to the high end and considered top shelf class. Priced accordingly. If any product was to be made in America, one would think it would be a luxury product with high end prices and margins. At least if you believe made in America equals a potential higher level of quality. But Trump makes little in America and lots outside the U.S. including Mexico and China.
There is a difference when considering Trump products.
So I get it. If Trump becomes President he will no longer be able to reap these extra profits by making high end products in low cost nations. Of course you left out who will pick up the tab?
Trump lives on his brand and, for the most part, his brand alone. Trump didn't invent, create, and probably didn't even design most of his current products. He does not even own or manage a large number of Trump properties, there are just branded Trump. Trump Wine -- nope, not Donald, that's Eric. He just approves what to slap his brand on and no doubt what to slap the family brand on. His brand, Trump, is his chief asset and money-maker. Soon he hopes to make that brand Presidential. That's one of the money cards from the election. The brand will not go away as he ascends the throne, it will just pass to other family members already minding the store, in name at least. Of course what is said at the dinner table......
And when Trump gets his tax plan, the same family will retain over $2.5B in inheritance tax, a masterful deal if ever there was one. They will make billions more on the reductions to business taxes that he anticipates passing as President.
So he's got extra revenue coming in on the Trump Presidential brand, he cuts costs with the Trump Tax plan, yup, this Presidency think looks like a pretty good deal to finance with your own money. Especially if the master huckster can buy the press and the people on the cheap.
There is a difference but bought and sold is still bough and sold.
A huckster bar none, liar, cheat, fraud, and soon criminal, he is literally dealing your vote in direct trade and monetary gain for billions to grow and protect his personal family $10B dynasty which will grow immeasurably once the Trump brand is Presidential . Folks complain about the "establishment" and Bush/Clinton dynasty's and the rip-offs afforded them through politics. Clinton family net worth is about $110M. Hillary net worth around $30M. Most of this came from speaking and book deals and then re-investment of those dollars. Compare that to the $10B Trump net worth and the $2.58B he will directly reap from his tax plans if he becomes President. Not bad for a guy who does not really build anything or make anything any more.
There is a difference but bought and sold is still bough and sold.
strangerdanger -
One of your best bloviating rants. Add references to the movie "Wall Street", where Gecko bragged about not producing anything, just owning. Trump is hopefully just a temporary anomaly in what Old Gent calls a POLE (barber pole or strip joint pole?)
I don't care how much richer be gets or how any of it benefits him. If he even does 2 of the things he promises to the people, that's enough to cover any other one of these career politicians that do absolutely nothing , but screw the majority of the US. Obama care is just one thing that has to go. They want to provide the coverage to illigals now . It's such a shame.
Forcefed,
Better to let the illegals suffer and die than get medical care, right??
Of course, if the ACA is repealed and millions of Americans lose access to health care that's okay too, as long as "those illegals" don't get any?
Such compassion.
Gimme a break. They are literally criminals for just being here. If they want free healthcare, let them go to Europe. You don't repay people for breaking the law by giving them benefits. THAT'S THE PROBLEM. Compassion my ass. How about compassion for the LESS benefits Americans are getting BECAUSE OF THE BENEFITS being given to illegals?
I give to charities. Money and time. I certainly don't lack compassion. But when it comes to criminality and taxpayer dollars, a line has to be drawn somewhere. Where does it stop? Huh JerryG? Let's just announce to the entire world "come here we'll let you in no questions asked and give you free healthcare and other social benefits" Now THAT is some "compassion", huh?
After all, America has ALL the money in the world. Hell, we PRINT it. PLENTY of money to pay for ALL the people who want to come here.... right?
"Not Trump" for president ROFL (video)
https://www.facebook.com/RedEye/videos/10153647742253237/
Totally disagree with Jerry,
If someone is in our country ILLEGALLY, why should they reap the same benefits that the people who live here legally are entitled to......the same benefits that our income tax dollars pay for???? But yeah, lets just give it away.....great idea!
Absolutely absurd
"Compassion my ass"...right. Dems consistently try to increase their vote count with illegals, either from outside the country or via voter fraud. They have been doing it for centuries. With everything based on media these days, watch "Gangs of New York" again. Trump is much like "the butcher". No heroes, just corruption.
jr- jerryg has no top end in ways to spend your money for you, and he will look for ways to subjugate you to a lower moral standard so he can falsely claim the higher moral ground. this is how he thinks he wins the argument. by shaming people. what utter nonsense. no compassion, really? he needs to check his liberal privilege. it's poppycock of course
for jerryg - "Socialism is great until you run out of other people's money" (quote)
and +1 to this JR - "America has ALL the money in the world. Hell, we PRINT it"
spot on JR; hold onto your hats, when the fed and the big banks introduce negative interest rates on your individual savings accounts it will be interesting to see how the "compassionate ones" respond.
The way some people think are nuts right? The more people that go on Obama care and now illegals, just makes the hard working people have to pay higher premiums. I guess people don't learn anything from the negative effects of a socialist country. We're bankrupt as it is
"One of your best bloviating rants" - hahahahahahahahaha !!! best comment of the year, literally laughing right out loud now!
keep em' coming danny, love it.
and yeah, he should double down and add the wall street stuff in to flush it out a little more, because it needs more . . . it's just too short. . . . and then add even more . . . that'll be sure to win any debate . . . just tire them all out till they go away, wear them out till they're crying for mercy, or they just give up . . . and then claim victory! sweet victory! . . . victory is mine! . . . . i am the last man standing! . . . i win! . . . .up with me! . . . hooray for me! . . . .i drove them all away! . . . so it's obvious that i win!! . . .
what.a.bunch.of.crap, you are so right danny
“I didn't have time to write a short letter, so I wrote a long one instead.”
- quote often attributed to Mark Twain, but probably comes from an earlier source, anyways it's spot on.
I hate to throw some facts into the mix but:
ASSOCIATED PRESS
The Affordable Care Act is meant to expand access to affordable health care coverage, but the law excludes one group from benefiting: the nearly 12 million undocumented immigrants currently living in the United States.
Under the federal health care law, undocumented immigrants are not eligible for any assistance. For example, they are excluded from getting federal subsidies to buy health insurance, and they cannot shop for coverage in the health insurance marketplace.
U.S. Department of Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius made that clear last week while answering questions about the health care law on a Google Hangout sponsored by Voto Latino.
“You have to be a legal resident in order to be entitled to a tax credit and purchase health insurance in the marketplace,” she said.
It is estimated that more than half of all undocumented immigrants currently living in the United States don’t have health insurance. And only a few have insurance through employer-sponsored programs.
4catmom Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's illegal for hospitals turn to ANYONE away- including illegal immigrants- if they show up in need of care? Obamacare is just one part of this enormous messed-up system.... "benefits" does not mean just "purchasing Obamacare", it means ALL healthcare, education, etc.
You people going nuts about illegal immigrants and hoping Trump deports them all.....be careful what you wish for. It would be a crushing blow for countless businesses of many varieties, who depend on cheap labor in order to make a profit. Not to mention migrant farm workers. Wanna see vegetables get expensive real quick? Because it isn't Tom Joad picking your oranges these days. In large part, the jobs illegal immigrants are doing are the types of low skill, low pay, and very physically taxing jobs most "bonafide" Americans just don't want to do. It will really, really mess up the economy. Unintended consequences.
4catmom: don't put facts on the table, it leads to lengthy bloviating posts. You gotta stick to definitive unsupported statements like: "what.a.bunch.of.crap," "screw the majority of the US. Obama care is just one thing that has to go," and "One of your best bloviating rants." Better yet, add a link to unsupported conclusions from a third string blogger.
And when proven wrong, quickly pivot off subject to ""benefits" does not mean just "purchasing Obamacare", it means ALL healthcare, education, etc."
That's why the far out right loves Trump. He speaks to them in a manner they can understand. No facts, no confusing plans, just sound bytes and invectives. Just like what they do here when they can't prove their point with facts. Cuz facts can be wordy.
As long as everyone understands that illegal immigrants do NOT qualify for Obamacare. Obviously there is some confusion about that.
Always been the motto of the Democrat party. They need the votes, without them their party doesn't stand a chance. The Republican party is just as guilty, they need the cheap labor.
auntiel 4cat - "the nearly 12 million undocumented immigrants currently living in the United States." your numbers are low, that's an old estimate from about 10 years ago and it's been estimated that the numbers increase by 1 - 1.5 million a year. if you take 12 million illegal aliens and and another 10 million to it , that makes 22 million ILLEGAL aliens living in the USA. not 'undocumented', please stop playing with the words. it's beneath you, and aren't you a retired teacher? you should know better.
so the good citizens of the united states should subsidize the health care for 22 million illegals?
eperot - please don't put words in my mouth, (or anyone else's mouth) i never expressed a hope that trump would deport 22 million illegal aliens from the US. i never expressed support for trump or the idea that 22 million illegal aliens are going to be deported. i do think that liberals really need to check their 'liberal privilege' before assuming that they are the only ones capable of understanding the issues we face.
The whole illegal immigrant and benefits stemmed from "They want to provide the coverage to illigals now . It's such a shame." from Forcefed4door in case any of you bashing your normal bashees are too lazy to actualy see who brought the point up.
"Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's illegal for hospitals turn to ANYONE away- including illegal immigrants- if they show up in need of care? Obamacare is just one part of this enormous messed-up system.... "benefits" does not mean just "purchasing Obamacare", it means ALL healthcare, education, etc."
correct just as it was prior to ObamaCare. So now there are 11million less uninsured people that we have to pay for if they show up to the ER.
Eperot,r
So we are okay with "illegal" people living in our country illegally?
What other illegal things are we okay with while were at it?
Drugs?
Theft?
Speeding?
Lets just make our own rules and we will live a life that only benefits us personally, despite the law....great idea!
""benefits" does not mean just "purchasing Obamacare", it means ALL healthcare, education, etc" Once again, don't let the facts get in your way or provide any to support your ridiculous ascertain.
Undocumented workers pay taxes, about 7% at the state and local level. At the federal level, 50% - 75% pay something.
Undocumented workers do not get for welfare, food stamps, Medicaid, etc. etc. They don't get most public benefits. Even legal aliens need to be here 5 years to apply.
Undocumented workers have paid over $100B into Social Security currently without hope of seeing a dime. They are floating your retirement.
But undocumented worker's children can get benefits like education, emergency health care, and food stamps. High end estimate (right wing Heritage foundation) is $14K per immigrant household.
Here's the dicey part. If you ship em out, you can't fill the jobs which could lead to recession. First, many undocumented workers are self-employed entrepreneurs ---- you know, what the right wingers call the engine of our economy. Those jobs disappear, there is no one left to do the hiring. Second, many undocumented jobs wouldn't be filled because they are either low paying, backbreaking jobs, in the wrong geographic area, or both. Third, we don't have enough unemployed documented workers to fill the jobs, much less in the right places as meaning a geographic match with undocumented and unemployed.
If you keep em, and better integrate them into the system (not as citizens), you might gain: "A CBO report on the Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act of 2007 concluded that a path to legalization for immigrants would increase federal revenues by $48 billion. Such a plan would see $23 billion in increased costs from the use of public services, but ultimately, it would produce a surplus of $25 billion for government coffers, CBO said."
http://money.cnn.com/2014/11/20/news/economy/immigration-myths/
But hey, right is right. Right? Hate to compromise on the principle of legality just to avoid recession, reduce the deficit and the debt. Who needs salad after all?
Back on point: if you want to solve the problem, a wall is just an expensive stupid piece of showmanship. Can you say tunnel or boat? Instead, just deploy e-verify for all jobs. Problem solved and then we can focus on what to do with the ones that have been here forever and are a vibrant part of our economy.
The illegals do one step better. They pay nothing and then when they get sick or knocked up they go to the ER for free or wait around the hospital for charity care. We can't let people suffer, but we need to start the guest worker program and collect money for emergency care up front and not allow their children to automatically become citizens. We don't need a wall with Mexico (although if it actually gets paid by Mexico no problem). Guest Worker program is the answer with specifics to deal with health costs and anchor babies...
"The illegals do one step better."
As if "illegals" are evil people out to screw us. For the most part,they are just people like us, wanting to better themselves. Many or most of us, in their position, would be doing the same thing. Most of us are not better than most of them.
Having said that, I certainly agree that immigration has to be controlled, and that unfortunately there are significant limits to how many we can take.
darwin - isn't that 11 million number old and way low, now?? given the increase year over year since that number was derived, it's most likely been doubled to 22 million + illegal aliens living in the US
Brother Dog that 11million was the # that signed up for ObamaCare that previously did not have coverage and therefore we were paying for their hospital visits.
U can use whatever # u want for the # of illegals. What ever helps you feel more scared.
I think darwin was talking about documented civilians who did not have health coverage, who were now forced to have health coverage.
4catmom
Surely you realize by now that people here never let the facts interfere with their particular skewed version of the truth.
Having worked in hospitals and emergency departments for over twenty years I can assure you that there are many more US citizens without health insurance presenting themselves to Emergency Departments for urgent and routine care than there are illegal aliens. The ACA has made a dent in the number of Americans without insurance and stripping these people of their insurance will not stop them from getting sick and requiring care.
This year, more than 50,000 unaccompanied children have crossed the southern border into the U.S. If you're wondering where they've gone, you may need to look no further than the classrooms of your local public school.
On May 8, the U.S. Department of Education and the U.S. Department of Justice sent a letter to local and state school officials around the country making it clear that minors who are in the country without proper documents must be allowed to enroll in schools. If they live in a particular school district, they are supposed to go schools in that district. However, even if they can't prove they live in the district - say, no parent or guardian shows up with them at the school or they don't have valid identification - school officials have been directed to treat them as homeless students, meaning they are to be allowed to go to that school without providing a home address.
This is not just another executive order by the Obama administration. It's federal law. The U.S. Supreme Court ruled in 1982 that children, regardless of whether they are here legally or not, must have access to public elementary and secondary education.
Currently, the U.S. spends approximately $12,000 per year to educate each child in public school. And the influx of children who are in the country illegally further increases those costs. That's because more regular teachers have to be hired, and - because many students don't speak English - more bilingual teachers and resources have to be brought in as well.
http://www.heritage.org/research/commentary/2014/9/undocumented-children-a-drain-on-us-schools
...as far as illegals "paying taxes".... they certainly don't pay any payroll taxes if they are being paid in cash, which a vast majority of them are. Day laborers don't get pay stubs.
jd2, don't forget that there are a lot of people that go through the process and wait in line to come here legally. Illegals essentially cut in line; do not forget this fact...
Most likely sounds like a wishful estimate; got facts?
"Trump said on MSNBC’s Morning Joe July 24. "I am now hearing it's 30 million, it could be 34 million, which is a much bigger problem."
Host Joe Scarborough then asked Trump, "Who are you hearing that from?"
Trump replied: "I am hearing it from other people, and I have seen it written in various newspapers. The truth is the government has no idea how many illegals are here."
"The Department of Homeland Security says the number of illegal immigrants was about 11.4 million as of January 2012. Other independent groups that research illegal immigration put the number between 11 and 12 million. We found no compelling evidence that the number could as high as Trump said."
"We rate this claim Pants on Fire."
Feel the heat: http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2015/jul/28/donald-trump/donald-trump-says-number-illegal-immigrants-30-mil/
Although he said some funny stuff to get there, Ijay is right: "Guest Worker program is the answer with specifics to deal with health costs and anchor babies."
The anchor baby thing is a historical Constitutional conundrum where Congress and/or Supreme Court needs to address 14th amendment to address our current situation which is much changed since the advent of the 14th. Guest babies?
Sure, if Mexico pays for the wall, a nice addition to the landscape. But e-verify is the cure, plain and simple.
Here's the right wing Heritage Org's perspective but bear in mind, like any system, there are issues, problems and fixes needed. "With the improvements suggested in this paper and those ongoing refinements to the existing program, E-Verify can be highly effective in reducing the employment of illegal immigrants. It is possible that an eventual mandatory use of E-Verify by all businesses could eliminate nearly all of the "on-the-books" employment of illegal immigrants in the U.S.-an estimated 4 million illegal workers."
http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2008/10/reducing-illegal-immigration-through-employment-verification-enforcement-and-protection
Sure beats a wall unless it's free. Wonder why the great deal maker, business maven didn't think of it? He certainly figured out it's cheaper to product Trump products in China, China, Chiiiiiiina.
4cat - "oh lordy - glad I'm going away" - do you need any help packing? (you've offered many times in the past to help others who you do not agree with to move out of the area, very 'inclusive' of you, i must say, please do remember to check you 'liberal privilege' once in a while) and btw, that vide descibes you as well does it not? because if you don;t see yourself in that video you kep trotting out, then it's time to open both your eyes, esp the right one ;)
darwin - i see now you were talking about Obamacare signups, sorry i picked it up wrong, but my question is still legit and your comment is way out of bounds, it doesn't help me sleep at night knowing that the left is trotting out 10 year old data that never changes, i guess whatever out of context facts that fit their version of bias is what they go with?
the 11-12 million illegal alien figure is from long ago is it not? and the estimated 1 - 1.5 million more that come here every year adds to that total, correct? so does that mean that there are currently 22 million+ illegal aliens living in the US at this point?
jerryg said- "Surely you realize by now that people here never let the facts interfere with their particular skewed version of the truth." - well sir, that goes double for you, seems like you only consider those facts that fit your personal 'confirmation bias'. you do know that's wrong, right?
and for all those on the left who keep dismissing and denigrating those on the right, you all need to check your 'liberal privilege'. you guys act like you are the only ones capable of understanding the issues we all face as fellow American citizens. you're quite wrong about that and it's way past time to let up a little on the dismissive attitudes.
Look at an article about Sweden and taxes, looks good to me; especially check out the flat rate for property tax:
http://www.vox.com/2016/4/8/11380356/swedish-taxes-love
To be happy with the current state of affairs can only be if you are one of the minority who milks the system...
I never said illegals get the coverage. I said they want them to have the coverage. And it's gonna happen if the witch gets in the office. She has already said that will be one of her goals. Simple as that. We wanna Give criminals the same benefits as the average American.
On a side note they should have a law that forces legal non English speaking children to learn it before grade school. Some towns now have interpreters in the class rooms. What the heck is that carp?
Here's one of your statements, Forcefed4:
"The more people that go on Obama care and now illegals, just makes the hard working people have to pay higher premiums."
"Now illegals" sounds a lot like they are now getting coverage.
And who are the "they" that want illegals to get Obamacare coverage? Just curious.
I wonder if Sweden is sending troops around the world and helping protect and feed the world.
Jd, wish I could edit that didn't realize the mistake. Either way it's gonna happen. Once it does The next step will be giving them voting rights.
"I wonder if Sweden is sending troops around the world and helping protect and feed the world."
Good point. I say let's stop sending troops around the world, call them home, stop getting involved in places we don't belong, and turn that funding into good domestic policy for a better life here at home.
No troops, but Sweden is actually quite generous in providing foreign aid:
http://www.loc.gov/law/help/foreign-aid/sweden.php
I don't see it happening, Forcefed4.
In any case, there are always things to worry about, for those so inclined (which includes me). :(
Every four years people get all riled up about who the next president will be. The president is only in office for 8 year max, and their only significant powers are appointing federal officials and foreign policy. The Congress makes laws, passes taxes, authorizes spending for the military, etc. The president can't reduce the size of the executive branch, even if he wants to, because the agencies and departments of the executive are created and funded by Congress.
People are distracted by big personalities and 'the leader of the free world' and fail to see that power is in the Legislative branch, and congress members can hold their office for indefinite periods of time.
People on both sides say, "the system is broken, we need a new one." We aren't even using the one we've got. Voting is the Minimal amount of effort possible to be involved in civic affairs. If you have time to leave long comments on the internet, why not write a letter to your state assemblyman, do you even know who represents you in Trenton? Did you vote in the state elections? Do you even know how Hackettstown's government works? So rather than be distracted by the seemingly huge problems the USA faces, try going to a town meeting. If you think you can do better, get involved with the local parties or run for office yourself.
We're not electing a superhero that can solve all our problems, we're voting for a distraction when civic engagement at all levels of government is really the way solve problems.
And for your own mental health, turn off the cable news.
DM Lets stop comparing these Scandinavian countries to the US. Sweden has 9.5 million people about as many as NYC. All small countries that are mostly white although they have been taking in immigrants in the last decade or so. What works for them would not work here unless there is a drastic change in the ways we do things. Too much power, corruption and influence by our elected officials to make that happen.
DM, I have been writing for most of my adult life. I always got a forum letter back. They haven't caught up with Social Media yet. There mail is free. I have a file, I pull some out to show friends that voted for the lesser of two evils most of there life, where I have been, before we got in this mess. All I can say now is, I told you so, To late now.
BDog says: "the 11-12 million illegal alien figure is from long ago is it not? and the estimated 1 - 1.5 million more that come here every year adds to that total, correct? so does that mean that there are currently 22 million+ illegal aliens living in the US at this point?"
"and for all those on the left who keep dismissing and denigrating those on the right, you all need to check your 'liberal privilege'" At least for myself, I am dismissing you and denigrating Donald Trump. Why? (I found the picture later so, yeah, I guess a little dog-denigration going on there. I apologize to the dog.)
The 11.4 million is a 2012 number; not that long ago. Your 1 - 1.5 million more per year is probably very wrong knowing your penchant for accepting uncorroborated web sites, you have probably done it once again. Most researchers have seen total illegal immigrant numbers as being relatively level of from 2012 to today. Here is PEW Research: http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/19/5-facts-about-illegal-immigration-in-the-u-s/
They see Mexican immigration as declining.
While folks are still coming in, many leave in the same year leveling the total number of illegal immigrants in the US.
So do you have a source for your 1 - 1.5 million INCREASE in total immigrants?
They see undocumented workers as holding 5.1% of U.S. jobs. Current unemployment is 5.0% See the immediate issue in Trump's stupid plan? He has no backfill plan to replace the 5% of U.S. jobs that he plans to deport. This might be worse on jobs than NAFTA, although lower paying ones so the NAFTA unemployed won't even touch these jobs much less move to one of the six states that will have most of them.
"Come to NJ for excellent minimum wages...."
"They see Mexican immigration as declining."
Because they see Hilary Clinton as a candidate and realise she will destroy America?
I want to see anyone's sources for numbers of illegal immigrants in the US.....I will then ask, if you know of ILLEGAL people, why has the problem not been corrected?
I am sure any number anyone can or could come up with would be way low. How do you count something that shouldn't exist? Sure you can count what you think you know of, but there will always be more then that.
Please don't rock the boat, unless you are unhappy with the heading we are taking.
.
strangerdanger -
You could never survive on twitter with 140 characters or less. Can't you cut it down and still make your point(s)? Someone is going to have to make a new "Trump edition" thread, largely because of you. Since I like to refer to movies, remember "A River Runs Through It", where the pastor, self-teaching his son, tells him to redo his essay, "this time half as long", twice, before the kid is allowed to go fishing.
Couldn't agree more dc... you can get a point across in a few sentences not 100 paragraphs. Sd could have written multiple books if he took his rants from the threads and printed them.
Current employment is at 5%, yea based on the way the government calculates the numbers. Real number is around 10% even Bernie Sanders said so in a recent speech.
Gotta love a lurker critique. Long books banned by DannyC and F4D: The Bible, War and Peace, Atlas Shrugged, The Lord of The Rings, Infinite Jest, and Mission Earth. You know what kind of people live in a twitter world Danny; thumb talkers. I will try to tighten em up for you.
Darrin: if you don't know how many illegals, why blight the landscape even if Mexico's paying? Worse if we pay to waste money. Otherwise the estimate of 11-12 million stands as computed by numerous organizations across the political divide. Either you think we know we have a problem or you don't.
If BDog is right, then the 10% unemployment paints a far worse picture for deportation backfill. Especially if those U-4 through U-5 unemployed are not looking to come back to work. There is no proof any of them will resume looking. Much less for minimum wages in remote states.
U-3 defines unemployment as people looking for jobs; it's at about 5%. U-6 is another definition of unemployment including out of work people not looking for work, it's at about 10%. Both are correct. Since you don't know whether U-4 or U-5 people will ever return to the workforce, much less jumping to return to work to grab those minimum wage undocumented type jobs in other states, not sure that this indicates any of the deportee jobs will be backfilled. Especially the self-employed entrepreneurial ones.
SD, if you haven't already, you should seek employment in the political spin/speechwriter biz; because you are extremely good at making anything say what you WANT it to say, regardless of what it actually says. The hallmark of a good politician/political advisor/speechwriter/analyst.
God help us if SD ever starts running for public office....
I remember an old, old saying " Figures don't lie, but lier's figure" It depends how much faith you have in the source. I have little faith in mankind and even less in Caesar. .
JeffersonRepub -
Great idea, not having "War and Peace" published in huge pieces on HL, with many twisted spins. Please continue to pursue getting strangerdanger a job in what he does best. Meanwhile, any thoughts on Trump getting the GOP nomination without a contested convention? Looks like Trump may have a solid lock in New York and Pennsylvania, not quite enough for the magical 1237, but California and the great state of New Jersey might finish it off..
"Meanwhile, any thoughts on Trump getting the GOP nomination without a contested convention? "
Nope. If he gets 1237, the only thing the GOP can do to take it away from him is change the rules... and his supporters will, justifiably, destroy the convention. And possibly the republican party along with it (at least for THIS go-'round)
OH NO there goes JeffersonRepub again, "advocating violence"... oh the humanity....
If he doesn't get 1237, there's a chance the GOP might align behind Cruz, but all bets are off in a contested convention... the GOP doesn't want Trump OR Cruz.
Meanwhile, Cruz keeps beating Trump, and i see reports every few days of Cruz continually gaining more delegates in some way, with Trump losing them in some way....
I really don't where this is going to end up at this point.
To quote Crash Davis, "I wouldn't dig in if I was you. Next one might be at your head. I don't know where it's gonna go. Swear to God."
SD I don't see how your response to my post has anything to do with what I said?
My point was, how can people be putting numbers to something that should not (legally) exist?
That is like trying to put a number to illegal drug issues by simply counting the number of people who have visited rehab, far from a honest number I am sure.
It's also like when the government tries to put a number to food stamp fraud....well if you know there is fraud why is it still happening....shouldn't that number be 0?
The cycle of illegal workers taking jobs off the books eats into the income taxes our government collects. On the flip side, those very jobs could be filled with the people who are struggling to find work and are on unemployment, also on the government's dime, so it is a double edged sword. The government is loosing taxes twice, and is paying for people who cannot find a job.
Income taxes in a week are tenfold more then what someone spends for good/products/services and the government collects from the state tax.
interesting read on the "Trump says Cruz stealing delegates" thing....
http://www.redstate.com/california_yankee/2016/04/11/playing-rules-cruz-trump-wont-learn-reagan/?utm_source=rsmorningbriefing&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=nl
I guess because, somebody has to eventually be president (or senator, or congressman....)
And it's not JUST the GOP- the democrats are exactly the same.
JeffersonRepub and Old Gent -
Good reference. I get it now, the GOP is just a "club" that can do whatever it wants, under no scrutiny from anyone. So be it, so why even watch it? We are powerless.
Danny and my posts got flipped...
anyway, "why watch it" indeed, which is why I'm not really. Oh, I keeping up with the delegate count, and when something "happens" like Trump's tirade about Cruz "stealing" delegates, I look it up to see what it's about, but I haven't bothered watching a debate since the 3rd one... how many did they have? 117 at last count? ;)
When the NJ primary (which doesn't matter) comes, I will exercise my right to vote. And when the general election comes, it'll depend on who the GOP puts up that will decide if I bother. I have followed politics long enough to not buy into the "lesser of two evils" scenario anymore. I'm done voting against people. If there's not someone to vote FOR, I won't. I suspect it might be better that way anyway- if we are going off the cliff, let's get it over with. Perhaps things getting worse even faster will wake even more people up (altho it may still be too late, even then)
Darrin: I really can't understand what you are saying. On one hand, you seem to believe if it's illegal, it can't be counted. We estimate many things we can't necessarily view under a microscope. All the time.
And that somehow if someone can estimate a number that they should be able to arrest the offenders. You are right that deportee jobs represent job opportunities. My point was three-fold. 1. It would represent more opportunities than we have willing bodies to fill. 2. the bodies are not geographically located where the opportunities are and travelling long distances for a minimum wage back-breaking job may not happen in a timely fashion and 3. many of these jobs are self-employed entrepreneurs; such jobs are not vacant, help wanted, but instead just gone. Again more difficult to backfill.
Your last paragraph needs clarification, can't get it at all: "Income taxes in a week are tenfold more then what someone spends for good/products/services and the government collects from the state tax."
Meanwhile, yes it appears that both Democrats and Republicans have a set of primary rules defeating a simple majority rule. Apparently, the deal-master general was not prepared to make that deal and now he is whining foul.
Like calling on Daddy to fund his first development project or giving his kids VP slots or buying them companies, he is looking to a higher authority to fund his way and bail him out from his failure at making the deal. He needs a government bailout from his primary bankruptcy at the delegate bank.
He say's it's rigged, he says it's not a democracy. Well Don, you knew the rules, you just couldn't make the deal. And Don, it's a Constitutional Republic, not a Democracy.
But we know what you mean: waaaaaaaah !!!
"Your last paragraph needs clarification, can't get it at all: "Income taxes in a week are tenfold more then what someone spends for good/products/services and the government collects from the state tax."
I think he's referring to the argument that illegals "contribute" by still paying sales tax...
What he means is that sales tax is small potatoes compared to payroll taxes. Say I pay $20K in income tax per year... I'm certainly not buying $300K worth of goods each year that would make up for lost revenue (at 7% sales tax) if I was paid off the books.
" And Don, it's a Constitutional Republic, not a Democracy."
I'll remember that the next time you post some statistics about X% of Americans supporting something... just saying... ;)
SD,
"Income taxes in a week are tenfold more then what someone spends for good/products/services and the government collects from the state tax."
Is a response to the numbers times I have heard that illegal residents pay taxes one way or another.
Nj income tax ranges from 1.4% to 8.97% of our gross
And federal is about ~10-20%
https://smartasset.com/taxes/new-jersey-tax-calculator#qepMU4Mijd
^ You can use this site to play around with different gross incomes ^
So illegal residents are not paying fourward ~11-30% of their check like the rest of us do. That is a big loss for the feds.
On top of that, we all pay sales tax, property tax (one way or another) etc....
Last I heard $10 per hour was the going rate for illegal workers....
So to put this into perspective, if a worker makes $10 a hour for 3/4 of the year (lets say they couldn't get work all year just for the benefit of the doubt) they are grossing roughly $15,600 per year tax free...
Using that site I mentioned above, the feds are losing:
Federal: $530
FICA:$1,993
State: $204
For a total of $1,927 PER illegal worker (that only works 3/4 of the year)
Well just throw a number out there, last estimate given on this site was 12 million illegals, lets say 1/4 of them work (3 million) (just for calculation sakes), that is $5,781,000,000 in taxes, per year, that our nation is losing to illegal workers. 5 TRILLION A YEAR! thats a lot of tax dollars man
5 Trillion is certainly a lot of tax dollars... but 5,781,000,000 is Billion, not Trillion.
Looking at Darrin's numbers and assumptions:
A person earning $15,600 a year usually won't be paying any federal income tax after deductions and exemptions anyway.
And not paying FICA gets washed against the fact that the illegal worker can't get paid social security in later years. So that evens out.
"And not paying FICA gets washed against the fact that the illegal worker can't get paid social security in later years. So that evens out."
Oh well in that case, we should legalize them all instantly and open the border wide... after all, 2 wrongs make a right, right?
"Oh well in that case, we should legalize them all instantly and open the border wide... after all, 2 wrongs make a right, right?"
I am amazed at the excuses people are providing to basically "look the other way" here... it's OK to commit a crime as long as everything washes out even.
Mind if I steal your car? You weren't using it anyway...
So one person provides faulty facts.
Then the person who provides factual corrections gets jumped all over for things that he neither said nor implied. Strange, isn't it?
jd2: actually if paid on the books, the illegal is charged FICA but will never collect SS, Medicaid or Medicare. That's 7.65% of their pay. The SS account stands at over $100B currently. Illegal alien kids may get Medicaid.
My point Darrin was rebutting was illegals do pay taxes; jd2 points out that many pay as much as if they were legal. This would not change under Trump's tax plan. Would get worse actually since his no-pay bar is higher.
My additional point, also made earlier, is that illegals are floating our SS by adding over $100B to our retirement without hope, at this point, of withdrawal.
So why would deporting 11 million workers cause recession. First part is when jobs are not backfilled causing either products to be scrapped (like harvests) or prices rising due to higher labor costs of hiring emergency short term relief. Second part is when 11 million people vacate what is left behind is 11 million people's worth of for rent signs and 11 millions people worth of buying power. Even if another 11 million people take the jobs that does not change. Now you have rising prices plus less consumer demand for housing, goods, and services.
Perhaps not a Tsunami of inflation and unemployment but certainly does not help an economy and if the economy is at a tipping point......
jd2:
http://www.efile.com/tax/do-i-need-to-file-a-tax-return/
Filing Status Age Minimum W-2 Income Requirement Minimum Self-Employment Income Requirement
Single Under 65 $10,300 $400
65 or older $11,850 $400
Head of Household Under 65 $13,250 $400
65 or older $14,800 $400
Married Filing Jointly Under 65 (both spouses) $20,600 $400
65 or older (one spouse) $21,850 $400
65 or older (both spouses) $23,100 $400
Married Filing Separately Any age $4,000 $400
Qualifying Widow(er) with Dependent Children Under 65 $16,600 $400
65 or older $17,850 $400
I am not seeing it the same way as you are, unless you are married and filing jointly, and my number holds true.....but...
If you are married, and have deductions (kids) I highly doubt you will be supporting a family on the $15,600 a year I came up with, chances are the income at that point would be higher. I just based my calculations off a single worker, working 3/4 of the year.
I'll take Hillary's Captain Kangaroo (although that's a stretch) over Captain Cornsilk any day of the week.
Darrin, you found the minimum need to file taxes. That does not equate to what you pay.
IF undocumented get paid direct as self-employed and file taxes:
The low rate for filing self employed is to collect the FICA tax; a little over 15%. Golly, single and married w2 holders pay that too, it's just off your wages before you get paid.
Personally since undocumented workers will never get Social Security, I am not sure I would pony up the 12.4% the FED is asking for here out of the 15%.
But if I did, then back at the income level......wow, they are the same. They still pay no income tax...
And the self employed have the ability to take many more deductions like the mileage to walk to the corner of Main Street because.....they are self employed....
I agree, you are not seeing it as we are :>)
Points for perseverance though !
SD,
You are talking out of both sides of your mouth, comparing legal workers who pay taxes to illegal non-tax paying workers
If you are legal, you will get SS, if your not, you won't
I didn't realise all 11 million illegal workers were self employed and do not work at the same location year round.......wait......do you know this?
My point here is that it is not for us to decide. Everyone should be taking the proper, LEGAL steps to filing honest taxes, and it seems it is safe to say that illegal workers are not. You have to remember, the annual salary I threw out there was for a single person, working 3/4 of the year, 40 hours a week, at $10 a hour. This may not be the case across the board. I would think it is safe to assume some workers may be working longer days, or more days per week, or dare I say, all year....
Darrin, I think your federal income tax figure for a single worker (you didn't specify single) making $15,600 is correct. I suppose most are not single(?). Certainly it is a good point that being paid under the table, whether to legals or illegals, is a big drain on the Treasury. Yes, everyone should pay their taxes per the law.
I can't resist adding that the very wealthy should stop influencing tax law in their favor, which is a big drain on the Treasury also!
I would agree that everyone should pay taxes.
But I thought we were discussing: "Is a response to the numbers times I have heard that illegal residents pay taxes one way or another." to which I say yes, they do.
To which you seem to be saying they are slipping the income tax.
To which I say, not that much.
And a wall and mass deportations won't stop people from paying people off the books; it just takes the illegal alien out of it. So would e-verify although much more efficiently and effectively.
We have not even touched how illegal workers take money out of our country. so if you wanna keep trying to talk the issue down by saying
"To which I say, not that much."
or
"won't stop people from paying people off the books"
All you are doing is trying to make a wrong a right. You cannot right a wrong without taking the illegal part out of it. Continue on with the blinders America, where has that gotten us?
(Obviously NOT saying this is our only issue) BUT blinders, political correctness, and media most certainly IS, at least IMO
Don't put words in my mouth. I am not trying to make a wrong a right. I am not suggesting wearing blinders and certainly you can't be accusing me of being politically correct.
I said Trump's wall is a fools mission; Mexico won't pay for it, it doesn't stop anything as long as there are boats and tunnels. Can Trump say e-verify as a solution instead? Illegal problem solved. What an idiot. And golly jeepers, it only defends against Mexican rapists, of which most Mexicans are, but not against illegal Muslim terrorists, of which all Muslims are, Hondurans --- where Trump makes stuff, Chinese -- where Trump makes stuff ---- any illegals except from Mexico. Why does Trump only want to stop illegal Mexicans. Heck, they can take a plane to Canada and walk across there. Seems short sighted.
But more importantly, deporting 11 million people, some of which have been part of our economy for a decade or two is pissing our money away. I mean this one is beyond stupid even for the Don. It will cost hundreds of billions to do. We can't backfill the jobs, yada, yada, yada. Don't have to make them citizens but a work permit program would be a legal manner from saving the economy from Trump's stupid deportation plan.
And when folks bring up that undocumented folks are only drains on the economy and offer no benefits --- I say BUNK, factually that is.
But I did like your, if you can't arrest em, you can't count them theory. Makes me wonder if you can't arrest them, doesn't that make it really expensive to deport them? Just saying :>)
I was not saying I am for the wall or against the wall, I was showing the issue that illegal workers in Americas cause, and the burden they are putting financially on our government.
Sure it would be disastrous to throw them all out at once, you have expressed believable reasons to allude to that, but whats the other option, keep allowing them in?
The road America is walking on is a down hill spiral....how do we correct that?
National debt cannot keep spiraling out of control.....what will end that?
There are many questions that most Americans seem to ignore, and that is what I meant by "blinders"
Remember, these people come on the basis of cutting in line; breaking the rules from day one. Do you expect them, in large numbers, to follow the rules once here???
"Remember, these people come on the basis of cutting in line; breaking the rules from day one. Do you expect them, in large numbers, to follow the rules once here???"
This is really the crux of the whole thing; much like "passing more laws" will "help stop criminals".... when criminals don't follow laws, which is WHY they are criminals....
You are here illegally, that makes you a criminal. Period. We HAVE immigration- get in line and wait. When all these pro-amnesty people talk about how "America is a melting pot" and the country was "built by immigrants" yada yada yada.... yes: LEGAL immigrants. Who waited in line, followed laws, and came here LEGALLY.
And even then most of them ASSIMILATED into American culture: something else that is somehow considered to be "racist" or some other such PC nonsense.
"We should insist that if the immigrant who comes here does in good faith become an American and assimilates himself to us he shall be treated on an exact equality with every one else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed or birth-place or origin.
But this is predicated upon the man’s becoming in very fact an American and nothing but an American. If he tries to keep segregated with men of his own origin and separated from the rest of America, then he isn’t doing his part as an American. There can be no divided allegiance here. . . We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language, for we intend to see that the crucible turns our people out as Americans, of American nationality, and not as dwellers in a polyglot boarding-house; and we have room for but one soul loyalty, and that is loyalty to the American people."
-Teddy Roosevelt, 1907
‘I don’t go so far as to think that the only good Indians are dead Indians, but I believe nine out of ten are, and I shouldn’t like to inquire too closely into the case of the tenth.’ - Teddy Roosevelt
yeah, of course that invalidates everything he's ever said or done. But then, I could do that to YOU, or to anyone else.
Ian, instead of debating actual points, you debate for debate's sake. Like winning is what matters, not the points being made. You and SD must be roommates.
Debating what point? You posted a quote by Teddy Roosevelt; I posted another one. Do you think your quote is more valid than mine? Or should one take the whole body of work and base their opinion of a man on that rather than something cherry-picked that happens to coincide with our own beliefs?
Teddy was also a racist eugenist, which you have harshly criticized Margaret Sanger for in a different thread. Somehow it is ok to use that to disqualify all the good things she did for the women's movement... but Teddy Roosevelt should be given a pass? Why? Because you like his quote about immigrants?
"I was showing the issue that illegal workers in Americas cause, and the burden they are putting financially on our government." OK, no problem, but I don't think you have or I have provided information saying at least "not quite so"
JR - we rewrite laws all the time and what is legal is illegal and vice-versa. The "legal" basis that we arrived changed all the time and many of us came illegally. When you needed a You have no basis that Latinos are any more less inclined to assimilate than anyone else. The history of immigration had all sorts of rules for legality including deporting lone women without a man waiting at the dock, literacy tests, unaccompanied children, those who had others pay for passage, those without sponsors, etc. Timing was everything since half of my relatives would have been blocked by these exclusions.
So the answer is certainly not a stupid wall on the Mexican border, a large percentage of current illegals coming in aren't even Mexican. Tunnels, boats, many ways around a wall: ask the Chinese. Usually the Great Wall was broached right through the main gates. The answer is e-verify, problem mostly solved.
For those illegals here the choice is pretty binary --- stay or go. If they go ala Trump, we economically lose, perhaps even a recession. Hundreds of billions to deport and you can't backfill the jobs. Matter of fact I would daresay not many HLers has one of these jobs today. If they stay, sure, don't have to make citizens, let em get in line, pay a fine for cutting in line, get a work permit and let's move on. Personally I am just not so principled as to punish myself and you for someone else's crime especially when a fine seems to resolve all.
Or how much pain do you think is appropriate for the terrible crime of coming here and taking jobs we don't want?
As far as not assimilating, ah, you have no proof beyond your prejudice. I do agree that bilingual is pc bogus; can't say bilingual is bad, but that's my opinion. We speak English here and should in the future. But saying that Latinos desire separation more that other groups? Where does that come from? All I can say is when one branch of my family came to work in your dangerous steel mills they met a nation of "Irish Need Not Apply" signs and were forced to live in a shithole nicknamed "whiskey row." One generation later they started working for the railroads in the stations and beyond. Two generations later they hung a sign on the station door: "only Irish need apply" as generations following the jobs of their fathers. It has always been that way in America and yet, almost all have assimilated once we let them. Four generations later they were marrying non-Irish across religious boundaries. Assimilation takes time and longer when there is pushback from the ruling tribes.
Feeling like he might lose, Trump wants to change the Republican party into a pure Democracy.
With a giant lead, Trump wants to change the Republican Party so that he can win even if he does not have the agree-upon plurality.
If he wins, Trump will take the Republican Party money in a New York billionaire minute.
Current rules are an artifact of states rights; Trump wants to bring them national.
Does he realize that if it's majority rules, then you don't need either delegates or a convention?
What happened to the winner deal maker general?
What's next? Does he now disagree with the Founding Fathers writing of the Constitution and desires to turn that into a democracy as well? Think we have to go back and let Al Gore be President?
Ian,
MY point is- YOU never have one. Your only point here on the forum is to go around attempting to invalidate EVERYONE'S points, as if not having a point of your own and simply "proving" everyone else is full of shit - regardless of what side they are on- makes you superior to everyone. You, mistergoogle/strangerdanger, and gadfly. It's debate tactics 101- invalidate ONE thing anyone else says, and that means EVERYTHING they say must be called into question.
Which would mean, the entire human race. Including you (surprise surprise)
If I was a psychologist, I'd say it was some kind of inferiority complex.
And for the record, I'm not a "fan" of TR- TR the man, yes. TR the president, not so much. But I agree with him on immigration.
I can't imagine who you're going to vote for, as no one will ever be perfect enough for you. Oh wait- you're probably too intelligent to think voting makes any difference, my bad.
GC GC, speak for yourself
hate to say it, but ian has become known for "busting" on people.
Darrin, I suppose that's somewhat better than "being known" for posting and reposting the same exact arguments over and over and over again, like you and JR are known for. Mistergoogle at least uses humor to break up the monotony, but you guys give him shit for that, too... as if being boring AND repetitious is the only acceptable way to behave on here, lol.
So, I post on these types of threads any more only when I feel there is a larger potential for actual thought. Certainly not by JR, I'm convinced he's incapable of it... but by others who may be reading.
Darrin - No one has to explain to me what ianimal does. I can see for myself.
JR - His point was what a hypocritical statement Roosevelt made. Roosevelt had no room for anyone but himself, others just like himself, and the rest it would seem should be put to death. Insisting everyone else in the world conform is an ultimate form of discrimination.
"So, I post on these types of threads any more only when I feel there is a larger potential for actual thought"
O HAIL the great Ian, KING of "actual thought" ROFL
(I was going to say "God", but you probably don't believe in those silly things)
GC,
We are talking about immigration, and a quote about native Americans is relevant, how?
TR was wrong on the NA's, for sure. And he was wrong on his imperialist view of the world. But AS AN AMERICAN, he was 100% correct on immigration.... there's no discriminatory policies in his statement on IMMIGRATION. Which IS the subject. Come here legally, learn english because that's what we speak. Assimilate into the culture if you want to help it. There's nothing discriminatory there AT ALL. Unless you're a bleeding-heart, brainwashed liberal who thinks our borders should be open and free to the world.
IAN,
"Darrin, I suppose that's somewhat better than "being known" for posting and reposting the same exact arguments over and over and over again, like you and JR are known for. "
Sorry, but no, being know for being a "bully" (in attempts to not use a offensive term) is definitely not better, well maybe in your mind.
Cyber-bullying......There is a difference between "correcting information" and correcting information while being snoody about it
Case-in-point > "Certainly not by JR, I'm convinced he's incapable of it... but by others who may be reading."
"Assimilate into the culture if you want to help it."
Just like we assimilated to the Native American culture, right?
MB,
Not disagreeing. What we did to the NA's was horrible. But I think trying to compare NA's "America" to what America was by the time TR became president is a non-starter. When the pilgrims arrived (and others before them), they were already more technologically advanced than the NA's. To "assimilate" would have been to forget all the advances made by civilization up to that point. Apples and oranges.
How about fast-forwarding over a century, and discussing Trump in the context of current media technology?
"Hey, JR, did you see that Hamilton, not Jefferson, has the smash Broadway show currently running?"
Now you're starting to sound like strangerdanger. No, it's not a compliment ;)
Danny-
Honestly, what is there to say at this point? Trump will either get 1237 or he won't. Maybe NJ's primary WILL actually matter this time LOL.
Trump becomes the nominee or he doesn't. If he doesn't, does he run independent? That's it. Not much more too it. Everyone has already decided if they "love" "hate" or "tolerate" the man... not much more to talk about (altho strangerdanger will no doubt write another tome vehemently disagreeing with this LOL)
JR is quoting from me, but I deleted my post in less than a minute. Sorry. Not sure how long anyone else could see it.
MB makes the connection... thank you. Irony is a wonderful thing. Not only did we NOT assimilate into the Native culture, we committed genocide against them.
Darrin, referring to using sarcasm online in a largely anonymous setting such as this as "bullying" is ridiculous. It's also demeaning to real victims of real bullying whether in person or online.
Now, if you want to call me an "a-hole"... that's fine. But don't pretend that you and especially JR don't engage in the same tactics with dismissive labels and such. Take this recent exchange... I asked him a legitimate question regarding the apparent double standard he has toward Teddy Roosevelt versus Margaret Sanger when it comes to being a racist eugenist; his response was to tell me I have an inferiority complex and that I'm probably too intelligent to vote. But, he's your buddy, so you take all that in stride and concentrate on my response instead. I get that... no big deal.
Poor Ian.... being bullied :(
All I want is to hear some of YOUR ACTUAL OPINIONS on these topics we discuss, instead of your finding ways to dismiss everyone else's. That would be a nice change of pace. Actually participate in the discussion, instead of acting like everyone but you "doesn't get it." Must suck being you, surrounded by all these lesser beings.
JR, I've given MY ACTUAL OPINIONS on ALL of these topics DOZENS of times. To keep reiterating them over and over may be something you enjoy; it's not something that I find to be worth the time and effort. Now, if my "bullshit meter" goes off during the course of reading through the same old arguments for the umpteenth time, I might take the time to chime in... or I might not.
JR - You just got his opinion, you still don't want to hear it, all the while acting like everyone else just don't get it.
PS. The argument that technological advancement is a reason to force someone's language on another is the non-starter. I thought we had freedom of speech. Otherwise you pretty much proved ianimal's point about being dismissive of TR by the whole "non-starter" statement.
Ian, In light of recent discussions, I have tried to refrain from needing to use derogatory terms, or hurtful names to have a discussion, or to get my point across. If you cannot get your point across without it, the person is not worth the effort to talk to, IMO
But I highly doubt seeing you and JR chase each other from forum to forum happens to be a coincidence.
And for the record, I speak for how you have responded to me at times. How you treat others is between you and them, doesn't mean I can't agree though.
Surfing the forum only to post when "you" see BS is quite a negative place to be, try to be more positive and helpful to others, a few years ago you were very helpful in the Bergen tool thread and helping me understand certain things.
Please start another thread, call it "HL verbal wars" or something like that, and get off this one, which was started to discuss the Trump phenomenon in today's unprecedented culture, an important topic in this historic election. Thanks.
"Surfing the forum only to post when "you" see BS is quite a negative place to be, try to be more positive and helpful to others, a few years ago you were very helpful in the Bergen tool thread and helping me understand certain things."
You misunderstood what I wrote. I was speaking specifically about the "argument" threads. I definitely try to be helpful when someone has a problem or question anytime that I think I may be able to. You can also find me in the food and sports threads if you find yourself missing me (-;
ianimal et al -
You seem to have way too much time on your hands. Do something productive, or at least get out and enjoy the warmer weather. Get to work, and get a life. I am trying to understand what is going on with Trump, and finding no intelligent analysis here.
ooh.... Danny's getting testy guys.... ;)
BTW, I HAVE been talking to you about Trump, Danny.
JeffersonRepub -
An intelligent analysis(?): "Trump becomes the nominee or he doesn't. If he doesn't, does he run independent? That's it. Not much more too it." NIMO. There is much more going on behind the scenes that we all could benefit from understanding. BTW, I agree that "NJ's primary WILL actually matter this time." Getting involved.
JeffersonRepub -
Yes: For starters, the GOP is indeed a rigged club that needs big changes toward the goal of "one person, one vote" being instated (not reinstated, since the same corruption has been going on for a long time, but many of us were not as aware of it), even if this benefits Trump, not the most desirable result. After that it is about solid, clearly defined programs, policies and unity, but clean-up is needed first, lest the Dems win in November. And the great state of New Jersey WILL make a difference this time.
Danny, your analysis lacks depth and facts perhaps because it's so short. Don't you find twitterites to be somewhat vacant of any deep thought? Able to converse only with their thumbs is a limitation fer sure.
The country is not a democracy, for good reason at least according to the Founding Fathers, so why should the Republican party be one?
Bet you never thought you'd be in a strangerdanger linking did you Iman, heh heh.
As to Jr, Darrin, feeling picked on, it's not your spin or the fact your are regressive, ooops, I mean conservative. My bad. Perhaps it's the disqualified links you frequently have posted (but might be getting better) and a lot of inaccurate facts and generalizations. Check your facts gents, check your facts.
Quotes are the best since anyone says almost anything at some time. Need to be sure the background supports the quote.
Danny, Both partys don't care about one man one vote. If you don't like them, leave them. There main interest is to control the money and power and self preservation. Its that way in most country's.The national election is more meaning full. but still not one man one vote. Thats what gerrymandering is about. We are a REPUBLIC. With unequal Representatives. and equal Senators. Those that get worked up have something to win or loose. When its over, I just try to figure out how I am going to survive as do most of the world. My grand parents made a decision and I had more opportunity's. Keep the Faith my friend. Thats a firm promise.
That's the pessimist view. The optimist says these parties are controlled at a state level which most think is a good thing. The state parties determine the primary and delegate process and it's "arranged" so that the party will be supported for the good of the party and for the good of the party's continued existence. At one level, for the good of the party. At another to retain adherence to a consistent party platform.
Not really taking sides but I can understand why an organization would be into self perseveration. .
Again, not picking on anyone but because I looked into it, when you see how the NRA picks it's board of directors, while there is a vote by the members, it really doesn't matter given the process the NRA has set up to select those that will govern the organization, it's message, and it's activities.
Pretty hard to find a democracy in this world anywhere. And there might be a reason for that beyond organizational preservation.
"The country is not a democracy, for good reason at least according to the Founding Fathers, so why should the Republican party be one?"
But, as it has been shown, the political PARTIES actually have nothing to do with the actual government- THEY are not, and are not required to be, democracies. I'll bet they STARTED that way, but then very quickly thereafter those in power in the parties started writing new rules to ensure only established/vetted/corrupt nominees would be chosen. The whole thing is a bit of a farce, it seems. But the good news is, what's happening with Trump is now SHOWING a lot of people what a farce it is- they are learning- they are waking up. TRUE political change can only come from the PEOPLE up, not the officials down.
So if Trump loses does that mean all your precious thoughts are wrong.......democratically speaking of course :>)
"established/vetted/corrupt" I do not think these three words are inexorably linked as you have written. Perhaps today, in your mind, you feel that is the way but I assure you not every single last politician is corrupt.
There's always Joe Biden and John Boehner.......oh wait, the zealots drove him out for not being corrupt. My bad again. Man, it's rough being a conservative. Tough crowd.
JeffersonRepub -
"TRUE political change can only come from the PEOPLE up, not the officials down." So EXACTLY how in 2016 election might this happen? Trump's revolution? Like to see the mechanics of any such scenario which does not destroy our political system, albeit undemocratic as you say. Nobody has a historical reference or precedence for this yet. Totally new territory.
SD,
A more politically twisted mind perhaps never existed. Be we've known that quite awhile now. I'm telling you- you should get a job writing political commentary, you're a pro at making anything say what you want it to say. I'll bet if Trump gunned down a dozen people on the street, if hired to, you could find a way not only to get him off the hook, but for America to understand what he did was somehow righteous and necessary and they would love him again. You're THAT good. And that's not a compliment (in case you couldn't figure that out)
Danny,
The only things *I* see in the Trump revolution are this:
-people have woken up enough to want a non-republican as a nominee (come on, he's not really a republican, every knows, it's ok, ok? ok.)
-people are so fed up with politician leadership they are willing to elect a non-politician to the highest office in the land. Call it anger, call it stupidity, call it a warning shot across the GOP's bow, it'll depend on which political dogma you follow
-based on the 2 items above, if the GOP is PERCEIVED as disenfranchising their own party members (doesn't matter what the rules are- if the rules are BS, and if the rules are unknown to the constituency- the PERCEPTION is all that matters), it could very well be the effective end of the GOP- they'll never win another presidential election.
(and, frankly, I'm shocked we haven't heard more of the same from the democrats here... Bernie has been cleaning Hillary clocks with votes, but continues to get fewer delegates.... the democrat primary "rules" may be more corrupt than the GOP's.)
What I meant by "true change comes from the people up", I mean enough people have to become aware and educated to all this stuff we have been discussing... then those people have to get elected to public office, and RETAIN their principles they ran on. If enough of that happens, the GOP changes, whether they want to or not. But it's an extreme uphill battle, thanks to the entrenched establishment elite and their cute "rules" they keep coming up with to ensure they stay in power.
...and let's not forget people.... 1237 doesn't neccesarily mean ANYTHING. The GOP can changes the rules before the convention. No one can stop them. Public pressure theoretically could, but I think perhaps their arrogance has gone way beyond public pressure. I guess we're going to find out.
Remember 1237 is a prime number, that is all that matters mathematically. Cynics rule, and rules make cynics. Go New Jersey, where the big tomatoes grow!
Yeah JR, between you and me, you picked me to defend Trump and to defend for people being gunned down in the street. Talk about twisted.
Danny won't read your tome. Its too long.
Tome? No, tone, or as we say in choir, "pitch, pitch, pitch." Trump changes everything, monopolizing the media focus on himself, replacing basic enjoyments such as classical music, fine cuisine, gardening and quality time with family and friends. So sick of his ego-shit. Wish I could just turn the blowhard moron off.
Driving home on I-78, I saw a white pickup truck with a handwritten chartreuse sign taped to the back window that read: "Ted Cruz" above the word "Honorable" with a big, smiley face underneath that. Not one to miss an opportunity to experience abject lunacy, I sped up and pulled alongside him. Sure enough, it was a white guy in his 50s, grinning ear to ear and waving at me like a maniac. My visit to the window at the monkey house complete, I let off the gas and returned to the real world.
ianimal - WTF does that mean? Be careful driving. Difficult to see your real world.
jjmonth4 - Thanks again for this clip on Trump, as relevant today as it was four months ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XriXDtfqCg
"Trump changes everything, monopolizing the media focus on himself, replacing basic enjoyments such as classical music, fine cuisine, gardening and quality time with family and friends. So sick of his ego-shit. Wish I could just turn the blowhard moron off."
Are you saying that Trump has you so mesmerized that you're unable to stop watching him on TV at the detriment to your quality of life and the things that bring you joy? If so, your daughter should stage an intervention, because you are way off the deep end with this.
Conspiracy Theory 101: heard this the other day, think latest is a NYT view.
Starts with thinking that Trump really didn't expect to be President but threw his hat in the ring to see what would happen. Wasn't going to spend much but what the heck, keeps him in the news. Did he really want to be President or did he just lust for some limelight? Since it didn't matter, he just shot off his mouth to create a buzz.
A miracle happened.
The obstructionist Republican Congress had set the stage by stifling the government's initiatives in the economy leaving us with lagging employment, low GDP growth, wage decreases, the continued collapse of the middle class and zero action from a Congress divided and impotent. This created an even stronger anti-establishment voter (throw the bums out) and a brand name celebrity brash outsider was just the populist answer for the people. Republicans hate politicians with a passion today.
The media followed it's desire for rating. All press was good for the candidate and good for the press. They pumped up any outlandish messages spewing from the top outsider brand rarely fact checking or questioning the lies spewing forth. Just mention Trump and your ratings rise; get an interview and they jump. So dont' rock that boat, just repeat after Don.
For the Republican party, the obstructionist swallows had come back to roost in the form of the anti-Republican outsider. Republicans didn't like Republicans any more. The media was eating it up with a free ride.
It was the perfect political storm.
Same happened to the Democrats, but here the outsider being more civil was not as newsworthy. The establishment candidate was much better entrenched in the center of the party.
But does Trump want it?
Stuff happens. Trump led the votes and the delegates but the master deal maker, the master planner, just didn't bother to plan, much less work the deal so he's at a loss to negotiate the intricate state-level delegate selection rules. Blame the party as he will, Trump screwed up. If the guy wanted it, don't you think he would have planned for the win by winning at making delegate deals?
But he might actually win so he has re-engineered his organization hiring establishment pro's and con's. Con's meaning his new head, Wiley, who worked for the Koch's in 2008, ran the GOP budget in 2012, helped Giuliani lose with a $2.4M debt, recently helped Walker's meteoric rise and fall with a $1.2M debt. Somehow this guy has failed into a huge promotion by the guy who prides himself in his hiring skills. Is he trying to win or trying to lose?
Something tells me that Donald would be perfectly happy with a contested convention, having the rug pulled out, riding off into the outsider sunset and writing books, hosting fox news, doing rallies, and coming up with some more Trump brand products. The Palin business model. He will still be a winner, the crusading outsider, and can claim he was robbed by the establishment. Probably will sell more by doing it.
Otherwise he will either lose in a dramatic fashion or, worse yet, actually have hard labor and a very visible chance to fail and never have his failure be forgotten.
Conspiracy 101.
strangerdanger -
Conspiracy 101: Not bad at all, objective, not much spin, worth taking the time to read, and no personal attacks. Looking forward to Conspiracy 102, after Trump assimilates his new hires...or fires them.
Local TV Anchor Exposes Top Biz Execs Pushing Open Borders...exposes "Partnership for a New American Economy"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAeAbX4RLns&feature=youtu.be
What government initiatives were stifled that would have lead to higher employment, higher GDP growth and wage increases for the disapearing middle class?
"What government initiatives were stifled that would have lead to higher employment, higher GDP growth and wage increases for the disapearing middle class?"
For example, the ones that Republicans and Democrats normally roll out during a recession. Your side does have some good ideas, so does mine ----- the obstructionists have stifled all post the stimulus package.
and the ""Partnership for a New American Economy" whose membership is comprised of many of the biggest business leaders in America will continue to push wages and living standards down lower and lower for middle America, as they advocate for more and more and more cheap foreign labor, which will outsource American citizens by having honest citizens train their cheaper replacements, (Like Disney and many other big firms are doing)
hold onto your careers folks, your CEOs are looking for ways to oust you for half-salaried foreign replacements
time to wake up and smell the coffee.
Would the Keystone XL Pipeline fall into that category the obstructionists have stifled?
Yes and no. Short term jobs to build pipeline and then no jobs and no oil. Not the best deal.
OK, all you expert pundits. After NY, Trump needs 400 delegates or 15% to run the table. Do you think he will do it, when, where and why? And opposing the Clintons, who wins? Just curious. Such a ridiculous election, but great entertainment.
I got 53% for Trump......of the remaining delegates.
Hillary at 28%, 44% if you x out the supers.
Hillary got more votes than all the Republican candidates combined in NY yesterday.
Farther along indeed. The price of exclusion.
http://www.270towin.com/news/2016/03/18/new-feature-candidate-delegate-maps-percentage-remaining-delegates-needed_246.html#.VxemkBH2Yy7
Another thing to stir the pot up. The goverment cant afford to back them any more.Good question for the canadates. Allow them to do it or fire up the presses.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/get-there/wp/2016/04/20/one-of-the-nations-largest-pension-funds-could-soon-cut-benefits-for-retirees/
I calculated that Trump needs 58% of the remaining 674 to get to 1,237 if he's currently at 845.
But happiest girl, he's just a HUGE fan of slurpees. ;-)
DannyC - Winning NY was an absolute must for Trump to get enough to close out the nomination. Even with it, it's not likely he's going to get to enough for 1237 he needs. His problem is California is not a lock even though he should get quite a few with the statewide all or nothing part. But the individual Congressional district part he's likely to not get a bunch of them. The other problem is Indiana, a high delegate count state next to Ohio where Trump really tanked. He's going to pick up some of the delegates there, but not enough to put his total into the sure win territory. He's got several states like PA that are a lock, but he's got even worse issues in Washington and Oregon that look very strong for Cruz. In the end I'd say Trump ends up with about 1150. Even if he does better in CA or IN, it's still probably not 1237. But a really interesting thing could happen if the count is more like 1200 or so. Some states have delegates specifically not pledged. On a first count it's quite possible if he only needs a few that he could get those from the unpledged.
As for Hillary vs Donald, the electoral college makes it a far different picture. It's not a race in states like Texas asking Democrats or Vermont asking Republicans. No closed votes so all the independents now join in, and the whole all-or-nothing comes into play. Hillary for example easily wins NY. The picture there looks very easy for Hillary against Donald. While she loses a lot of small, conservative states, she gets California and NY without a big problem. But the big prize she's likely to get is Florida. She does very well there if it's Trump but probably loses if it's Cruz. Each state is a bit different but that's the biggest one that really matters. Cruz is also more competitive in some of the toss up states which is why that race is much closer.
Old Gent: this one is complicated since it's managed by a quasi-government organization called the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation (PBGC started in the mid 70's. It's also an underreported dirty little secret that has been getting worse since 2000 and terrible since 2008.
Pensions are not, and have never been guaranteed by the government. Each pension pays pension insurance money to PBGC to protect against default. There is no tax money allocated. However, and here is the catch, the money paid in can never cover a massive default by the entire pension community. The PBGC is running a deficit. Last year they bailed out close to 200 pension funds.
Around Bush Jr time, pension funds were really underfunded; Bush team got some legislation though to force companies to improve situation but 2008 downturn killed pension investments.
This 2014 law allows companies to frankly sneak out of the pension by slowly bleeding pensioners by smaller cuts versus one single "its all over." They just say, we done bad investments, sorry. Next it will be, but you are living longer, sorry.
Good luck in getting taxpayer dollars to cover pensions since most voters don't have one to begin with.
Good luck trying to sue your old company when they default on the pension. Usually they don't have much to sue by that time anyway and the suit loses power over a cut versus a total default.
The deal to protect yourself gets muddier in that even if you can take a lump sum and leave your pension behind, the data you would use to make that decision can be antiquated, by law, so you have to really guestimate how solvent your pension fund is. Meanwhile the payout from the pension is much more than you can spin off from the lump sum so you have to figure out how to use the lump simultaneously as an investment-for-profit engine and an annuity where you are drawing down funds hopefully resulting in either a zero balance or a little left over on the day you die. Tough math.
If there is any leftover, that goes to your heirs, probably kids, as a beneficiary IRA and then will immediately take RMDs (distributions) no matter how old they are. (I know, too much info.....)
Its worse for public employees. The States figured they could never go bankrupt without somebody bailing them out so they never bothered with any insurance. NJ is in intensive care looking more critical by the day.
"Hillary got more votes than all the Republican candidates combined in NY yesterday."
Gee, you're telling me there are more Democrats in NY than Republicans?
Want to really blow my mind and calculate the R/D split by geography (NYC vs everywhere else).. or better yet, I hope you're not asking me to believe that there will be a heavy Democrat turnout in NJ...
"But the big prize she's likely to get is Florida."
I don't know GC...
Clinton got 1M votes (out of 1.66M Democrat votes total) in the Florida primary.
Trump got 1M votes (out of 2.27M Republican votes total) in the Florida primary.
That's a much larger Republican pool that would not only have to abandon Trump, but also vote *for* Hillary for her to win.
Mark, there are 12 million registered voters in Florida: 4.4M R, 4.6M D and 3.2M "other".
You can't really extrapolate the results of the primaries to the general election and assume that only the people who voted in the primaries will vote in the general. Especially since the Democratic primary wasn't even competitive; Hillary won 2:1...
In Florida you aren't allowed to vote in the primaries as an Independent (must be registered as R or D).
That means R turnout in the primaries was 51% and D turnout was 36%.
Pretty good for both considering the last primary with 30%+ turnout was way back in 1992. But the R's look a bit more energized.
General election turnouts in Florida have bounced between 50 and 75% for the past few elections. D's have some work to do to catch up.
Florida also tends to flip-flop back and forth in the generals. R for a few years, then D for a few years. 2008 and 2012 were D (those must have been "flop" years). There hasn't been a D "3-peat" or more since 1948. I think it's time for a flip.
3 million plus registered democrats in NYC vs 460,000 registered republicans. Statewide total is 2 to 1 dems vs repubs.
Thanks for the correct numbers and analyses. The only positive I see in this election is exposure of how rigged our two-party political system is (or now, hopefully, was). Enlightening. The rest is entertainment, with a few basic math and probability exercises.
this is of significance to this election:
"According to Pew, 35.3 million, or 64 percent of the total number of the Latino immigrant population are Mexican-origin. A 2008 Pew report said that more than half of the immigrants from Mexico were illegally in the United States."
PEW research is saying that more than 17.65 million immigrants from Mexico are here illegally.
that's certainly higher than that tired and over-used 11 million number that everybody and their mother keeps trotting out for well over a decade running now.
that 17.65 million number from PEW research is just the illegal aliens from Mexico and does not include illegal aliens from other countries/continents which would add even more to the total.
estimates are that there are easily more than 20 million illegal aliens in the country right now, and more coming every day.
When I look this up using PEW Research, I get 11.3 million, as of 2014. Here is the link:
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/19/5-facts-about-illegal-immigration-in-the-u-s/
Where does PEW Research say 17.65 million?
I'm willing to believe that there could be a large margin of error, either way.
jd2 - it's in the statements quoted above from the pew reports, do the math, if the exalted and revered PEW research center is all over the map on these estimates, then what does that say about accurately defining the real number of illegal aliens living in the USA right now? with such wide variations in numbers from the same organization in their different reports, one might conclude that they really don't know how many are here.
the fact that everyone keeps quoting that 11 million number for well over 10 - 12 years now should raise red flags and be subject to question.
does it seem reasonable to you that the number of illegal aliens living in the US has not changed in over a decade?
that dog just won't hunt anymore, maybe it's time for us to wake up and smell the coffee?
what do you think jd2?
Is there a link to support where you say PEW says 17.65, from Mexico alone? I provided a link where PEW says 11.3 in total.
BDog, something tells me if you dared to actually post the link with your stated number that the error of you ways would become glaringly apparent. Not that you have ever post a right wing whopper before but this sounds like anti-immigration spin. So post away instead of tossing allegations.
Last time I backtracked a HUGE discrepancy in this, 11 million resulted as the agreed-upon number by most experts ----- for and against immigration. Only the math challenged anti immigrant zealots dreamed a larger number.
"the fact that everyone keeps quoting that 11 million number for well over 10 - 12 years now should raise red flags and be subject to question. does it seem reasonable to you that the number of illegal aliens living in the US has not changed in over a decade? that dog just won't hunt anymore, maybe it's time for us to wake up and smell the coffee?"
Geez, first you complain that all the jobs are going to Mexico and then you complain all the Mexicans are coming here for jobs :>) (kidding) Just because you want a larger number and time has passed does not make it so. After all, there's only so much lettuce to pick.
Actually BDog "everyone" explains all that if you read up on it. Part of it is people come, people go. Also, people looking for jobs are less likely to migrate to a place in the deepest recession since the great depression.
BD, looks like a quote from someone else allegedly quoting PEW, not a quote from PEW itself. Without direct support, given the large discrepancy with the direct link to PEW I provided, we have to assume the information you provided is false.
Its the same trash number I disproved before. Even most conservative think tanks don't agree. He just likes to trot unsubstantiated statistics on a regular basis.
Cruz & Kasich campaigns now officially working together in an attempt to stop Trump from getting to 1237:
http://therightscoop.com/breaking-cruz-and-kasich-campaigns-now-officially-working-together-to-stop-trump/
Don did tell them that deal making is important :>)
Don't blink; might be the only time you see Cruz compromise....
A thought: The Cruz/Kasich alliance, with GOP approval, will backfire. American voters are not stupid enough to go along with this obvious political manipulation, and it will only help Trump, which is neither their objective nor mine. Dumb and dumber, especially in this era of the populist outsider revolution. But we'll see for sure if it works or not tomorrow night.
I don't think tomorrow night will be the bellwether, Danny. Trump will still win the northeast handily. This 'alliance" is more geared toward the remaining Midwest and Western states..
I agree with Danny, the alliance might piss more people off than it relieves/energizes. And Trump is PLAYING it exactly right, if you've heard any of his statements today.
I think this move hurts Cruz irrevocably long-term. You can't say "I'm not a politician" and then pull something like this, lol...
IDK about "irrevocably", the Cruz supporters are just as steadfast as the Trump supporters... Cruz supporters are mostly constitutionalists, and see him as the only true constitutionalist of the bunch. Which he is.
But it was just bad timing for Cruz... as much support as he has, this is simply Donald's year. And all of the disapproval and downright hatred for politicians in current times is playing right into Trump's hands. It's like the perfect storm. NOT being a politician this time around is a candidate's #1 strength.
(and we won't go into "of course he IS a politician", because it doesn't matter: the people do not SEE him as a politician, they see him as the ANTI-politician... it seems all of his flip-flopping on issues, and previous life as a democrat, and large contributions to the Clintons, don't matter.)
Bad timing for Cruz is BS. He says, and you agreed, that he was a big time outsider even though a sitting Senator. Cruz supporters might be nuts, but they don't make up lies to fill in for Trump's lies. They're extremely conservative, but not stupid.
Trump is like an internet hoax. The more they debunk it and expose it for the lie it is, the more the believers dig in. It's like saying milk is the ultimate poison because no other mammal other than humans would ever drink another animals milk. And 10 million people go out and say "yeah, yeah, yeah" and chest bump. And quietly in the corner is a guy saying "cats". They escort the cat guy out but it's not enough so someone in the stands gives him a sucker punch. And Trump promises to pay his legal fees. And then doesn't really. And then says again he'll pay the fees. And still doesn't. Then tweets at 2AM that he did pay the fees even though he didn't.
GC,
What I'm saying is, if Trump weren't in the race, and doing YUGELY well, that a lot of those people would probably be voting for Cruz.... instead of the more "establishment" candidates... that's what I mean by bad timing (for Cruz).
It remains fact that out of the "politicians" Cruz is still the least establishment: he doesn't play ball. Unlike Rubio, Kasich, and the rest. Cruz is a hard-liner. Which is what people want this time around.... it's ironic, early on Trump WAS campaigning as a hard-liner, which is what everyone grabbed on to, but at this point he has softened, and even waffled, on his positions from earlier.... his supporters are too blind to care, apparently. They wanted some kind of hard-line "beast" to "kick DC's butt", and who they are ending up with is someone who will DEAL far more than Cruz will. (for better or worse, that's a matter of opinion... my POINT is that many of the Trump supporters will not be getting who they THINK they are getting)
ok GC, as maddening as all this has been, I am grateful for the laugh that your post gave me!
pmnsk ianimal -
From ABC News (for what it's worth):
"Hillary Clinton's campaign has responded to a recent ABC News interview with billionaire Charles Koch, in which the GOP donor suggested he might prefer Clinton over the remaining Republican candidates."
"'Not interested in endorsements from people who deny climate science and try to make it harder for people to vote,' the campaign tweeted on Clinton's account."
LMFAO!
jd2 - the point i am inexpertly trying to make is that the pew numbers don't even agree with the pew numbers. and if that is the case, then no one really knows how many illegal aliens are here in the usa. pew has issued many reports over the years and with very wide variations, they don't support each other, one report say 11.3 million, other reports indicate many more, see the quote above for details and apply a little math to determine what those reports taken together indicate. those pew reports indicate a much higher number of just Mexican illegal immigrants.
so sorry for the confusion on this, i am not making any definitive statements myself as to the actual number of illegal aliens resideng in the US, but am pointing out variations in the reports from the same organization. this much revered and respected PEW research center is taken by too many at face value with no one questioning their results, methodology or their possible preferences for a certain result.
"According to Pew, 35.3 million, or 64 percent of the total number of the Latino immigrant population are Mexican-origin. A 2008 Pew report said that more than half of the immigrants from Mexico were illegally in the United States."
more than half of Mexican-origin (35.3 million immigrants) are illegally in the United States. (these are all PEW research numbers)
If you use the figures from the above quotes (all are from PEW research reports), they indicate that more than 17.65 million immigrants from Mexico are here illegally. These PEW numbers do not include other illegal aliens from europe, the mid-east or china who are here illegally. which would add considerably to that total. Question: (and i don't know the answer), does that total get to 20 million illegals? 22 million? maybe more? who knows? (answer: no one knows for sure)
so if anyone says they have disproven a higher number than this over-used and very comfortable (for political discussion purposes) 11-12 million figure, make them show you the data and the methodology, (hint: they can't since there is no real way to verify the 11 million or 20+ million estimates from other sources)
it seems to me that reasonable people can sense that these numbers are being manipulated for political gain.
it also seems to me to be unreasonable that the number has remained relatively steady for over 12 years running.
jd2, you have always been one of the more 'reasonable' minds on HL (along with a few others) Does it make sense to you that we have the roughly the same number of illegal aliens for this length of time?
BD, we've asked you several times for a link to the source material to what you say are PEW numbers, but you continue to decline to do so. Therefore we don't believe the numbers you are presenting, and the discussion on this topic cannot proceed.
"Does it make sense to you that we have the roughly the same number of illegal aliens for this length of time?" I do not know except we still have 50 states. There is still only one President, and 32 degrees is still freezing. Many things don't change with time, some things go up, some things go down and some do one or more of these as time goes by.
Please stop BDog, you are embarrassing yourself. We did all of this earlier, perhaps in other threads, and yet you persist.
He won't admit it, but BDog seems to be quoting The Washington Examiner 2016 story which, instead of using PEW's latest estimate of 11 million illegal aliens, took the latest census number for total Latino's in America, a mix of legal and illegal. Then they grab a different report which calculates 61m immigrants in America, another report that says 64% are Mexican and then a very old 2008 PEW report that says more than 50% of Mexican immigrants are illegal.
Instead of amalgamating different facts from different reports and sources from over the past decade, they could have just used PEW's 2015 report which states: "The number of unauthorized immigrants in the U.S. has stabilized in recent years after decades of rapid growth." Amazingly the peak was 2008 when the Examiner pulled the rate of illegal immigrants they used for their 2016 estimate. Of course that statistic was shot to shat during the 2008 Great Recession when illegal immigrants returned home in expanding numbers combined with a far lower influx to the US.
If BDog and The Washington Examiner bothered to look at PEW's recent research they would have seen:
"There were 11.3 million unauthorized immigrants in the U.S. in 2014. The population has remained essentially stable for five years, and currently makes up 3.5% of the nation’s population. The number of unauthorized immigrants peaked in 2007 at 12.2 million, when this group was 4% of the U.S. population."
"Mexican Unauthorized Immigrant Population Declines Since 2007 Peak. Mexicans make up about half of all unauthorized immigrants (49%), though their numbers have been declining in recent years." Note that Mexicans make up half of UNAUTHORIZED IMMIGRANTS not all immigrants as computed by BDog's Examiner. Uh oh, there's the rub.
I am sorry BDog but there is a word defined for repeating the same stupid thing over and over and you are repeating yourself....again.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/19/5-facts-about-illegal-immigration-in-the-u-s/
it's on their web site JD2 - Pew's immigration reports are all over the place with wide variations in numbers leading to multiple conclusions.
"Since 1960, the nation’s Latino population has increased nearly ninefold, from 6.3 million then to 55.3 million by 2014. It is projected to grow to 119 million by 2060, according to the latest projections from the U.S. Census Bureau (2014). The foreign-born Latino population has increased by more than 20 times over the past half century, from less than 1 million in 1960 to 19.3 million in 2014. On the other hand, while the U.S.-born Latino population has only increased sixfold over this time period, there are about 30 million more U.S.-born Latinos in the U.S. today (35.9 million) than there were in 1960 (5.5 million)."
"But with the arrival of large numbers of Mexican immigrants in the 1980s and 1990s, the Mexican share among Hispanics grew, rising to a recent peak of 65.7% in 2008 and staying about steady since then."
http://www.pewhispanic.org/2016/04/19/statistical-portrait-of-hispanics-in-the-united-states-key-charts/
More than half (55%) of the Mexican immigrants in this country are unauthorized. Overall, Mexicans comprise about six-in-ten (59%) of the estimated 11.9 million unauthorized immigrants in the U.S.
http://www.pewhispanic.org/2009/04/15/mexican-immigrants-in-the-united-states-2008/
so "55.3 million by 2014" ; "Mexicans comprise about six-in-ten (59%)" ; "More than half (55%) of the Mexican immigrants in this country are unauthorized."
these numbers are different yet from the ones in the original article i quoted and give even more reason to suspect all of these reports for being inaccurate.
55.5 million * 59% Mexican origin = 32.745 million immigrants of Mexican origin,
"More than half (55%) of the Mexican immigrants in this country are unauthorized."
32.745 million immigrants of Mexican origin * 55% (or more) here unauthorized = 18.00975 million illegal aliens of Mexican origin living here in the USA
all of this is from PEW reports, and shows that they are all over the map themselves. No one , and i mean no one has an accurate account of how many illegal aliens from all countries are actually here in the USA
I am saying that the much bally-hued number of 11-12 million seems unreasonable given all these factors,
I know it's politically expedient to just keep repeating the mantra of 11million, 11 million, over and over and over again, until it becomes 'common knowledge' , but i feel it's time to get a better, more realistic handle on what is actually going on.
pew's own numbers say that there are 18 million illegal aliens of Mexican origin living in the USA. this conflicts with pew's reports that there are 11.3 million illegal aliens from all countries living in the USA. They both cannot be right.
OK, now you or The Washington Examiner are clearing lying.
As I said before, you are combining 2008 estimate ratios against 2016 totals. You are factoring against total Latino's versus total Mexican immigrants using a ratio for Mexican immigrants, not total Latino population.
You completely ignore using the current PEW estimates for illegal aliens generated in 2016 in order to fabricate a false 2016 estimate using 2008 factors with different definitions that PEW does not currently support for 2016. Its a mish mosh of data from over a decade of PEW reports.
Then you pretend to quote PEW when you are quoting The Washington Examiner's mish mosh of PEW statistics cherry-picking certain pieces of data from over the past decade in order to generate a complete statistical lie for 2016.
You can't take the total Latino population that are not all immigrants and then multiply it against a fact for illegals amongst immigrants. Total US Latinos and Total Immigrants, Latino and other --- are two very different things. Not to mention using the 2008 ratio against the 2016 total.
I posted the actual 2016 PEW estimates above. The fact that you show different PEW numbers because of your inaccurate definitions instead of just using the actual current PEW numbers does not substantiate your lie. And claiming PEW has many different numbers is a lie too; you are the only one posting different PEW numbers because you made them up.
So now we have to verify BD's numbers, I guess, time and adequate motivation permitting. Let's start with BD's 55.5 million, which I guess is supposed to be Hispanic immigrants, per his formula.
I can't find that exact number in the links he provided. But I do see a number close to that, which is not immigrants but total hispanics, including, and primarily, U.S. born.
So that would seem to be a misreading on BD's part that throws the rest of his calculations completely off.
jd2 - not my numbers, all of them are from PEW reports, look em' up, i gave you the links,
the data appears to contradict itself, which is the point ; PEW doesn't really know how many illegal aliens reside in the USA
look if the government is cooking the books, and pew uses it as a source , that's a problem, if when asked if they here legally or not, an illegal alien is not likely to give an honest answer, so they remain hidden in the census data which also should be suspect.
jd2, with PEW relying on the feds massaged data and inaccurate or outright dishonest answers on census surveys means their reports cannot be reliable.
the fact that so many give so much credibility to these reports is shocking.
BD, can't you see what I told you? You are starting with a 55 million number as representing all hispanic immigrants. But PEW clearly states that their number is total hispanics, including US born. NOT JUST IMMIGRANTS. So you are misinterpreting or misrepresenting PEW's numbers.
I guess I have nothing more to add.
"The foreign-born Latino population has increased by more than 20 times over the past half century, from less than 1 million in 1960 to 19.3 million in 2014."
BD, THIS is your starting number for total Hispanic immigrants, not 55.3M.
Out of that total 19.3M, 11.9M are illegal (62%). Out of the 11.9M illegals, 59% are Mexican (7M).
jd2 - yes, i see what you are saying, yes it looks confusing.
here are PEW's data for 2014;
Since 1960, the nation’s Latino population has increased nearly ninefold, from 6.3 million then to 55.3 million by 2014. The foreign-born Latino population has increased by more than 20 times over the past half century, from less than 1 million in 1960 to 19.3 million in 2014.
Date----|----Mexican Origin----|----Non-Mexican Hispanics
2014----|-------64.0%-----------|----------36.0%
http://www.pewhispanic.org/2016/04/19/statistical-portrait-of-hispanics-in-the-united-states-key-charts/
of 19.4 million (foreign-born) in 2014, PEW is saying that 64% of them are of Mexican-origin; that's not American born that's foreign born,
19.4 million * 64% = 12.416 million Mexican-origin hispanics are living in the USA.
if as PEW claims 55% or more of them are here illegally, then 12.216 * 55% = 6.8 million Mexican-origin hispanics are living in the USA.
yes i see what you are saying, and i thank you for it, but do you see what i am saying jd2? these reports are all over the place and the numbers contradict themselves,
it is hard to believe numbers and so called 'facts' that come from federal bureaucrats cooked books that are purposely underreported for political expediency, and then also put stock into census data that relies on the honesty of illegal aliens to truthfully declare they are here illegally. really? you buy into the census data as accurate? (please answer this question JD2). illegals aliens are not wont to be honest with census takers are they? they will try to hide as 'legal'. that skews PEW's report data doesn't it? the real number has to be higher, but how much higher is open to debate.
no one knows the real number, not you jd2, not PEW research, and not me, that's what i was trying to say inexpertly, hope it's more clear now.
And the tin foil hat award once again goes to.......
Its not that you used the wrong numbers Bdog. Its that you used the numbers wrongly.
I tried to tell you that The Examiner clearly imdicated their definitional mistake, but noooo, you judt loved the lie. Kept saying that the number just had to go up due to time. Think you had already built a wall.
Due to my subscription to MLB Extra Innings and watching local Pittsburgh commercials during Pirates games, I've seen Trump campaign commercials, which I haven't seen on local broadcasts (probably because NY was never in doubt). I have to say... Bernie Sanders has nothing on him when it comes to ridiculous plans with no way to pay for them.
But the man without plans has much experience with big debt resulting in boom or bust with his largest asset to date being the brand he is once again leveraging to those born every New York minute.
Now he is touting his zero college debt program, a hair weave nod to the Bern to suck up to the millennials. Wanna bet he has to dial that one back when he gets the joe six pack feedback.
One thing is for sure, the NE love trump. That victory last night was one for the record books. To win 99.9% of all the counties in the 5 states, according to the political pundit professionals, is unheard of. Even that nasty rachel maddow on msnbc couldn't help but comment on it last night. Good luck with your crooked Clinton stranger danger :-)
It's good you have a man without a plan FF4D, may your wall be high and your Mexicans removed, may you shun all Muslims. Gotta ask yourself: how do you go from broke to $10B net worth without being a crook somewhere along the line?
Trump Airlines: Loan default, company turned over to creditors, everyone fired
Trump Vodka: Ceased production due to low volume. Factory line fired.
Trump Entertainment: Bankruptcy three times, many fired including the Don being replaced as CEO. Trump sued to reclaim Trump Casino name. Lost. ""Other than the fact that it has my name on it — which I'm not thrilled about — I have nothing to do with the company," he said. He resigned from Trump Entertainment soon after that third filing, and in August of that year he, along with an affiliate of Beal Bank Nevada, agreed to buy the company for $100 million. The company reported it emerged from bankruptcy in July 2010." Once they got rid of the Don, things got better....
Trump Marriage: First wife publically cheated on, marries mistress for a few years, now on trophy wife number three.
Trump Mortgage: "Trump told CNBC, "Who knows more about financing than me?" Apparently, plenty. Within a year and a half, Trump Mortgage had closed shop. The would-be lending powerhouse was done in by timing (the housing market cratered in 2007) and ironically enough, given Trump's Apprentice TV show, poor hiring. The executive Trump selected to run his loan company, E.J. Ridings, claimed to have been a top executive at a prestigious investment bank. In reality, Ridings' highest role on Wall Street was as a registered broker, a position he held for a mere six days."
Trump the Manufacturer: ""The problem with our country is we don't manufacture anything anymore," Donald Trump told Fox News a year ago. "The stuff that's been sent over from China," he complained, "falls apart after a year and a half. It's crap." That very same Donald Trump has his own line of clothing, and it's made in ... China. (O.K., O.K. — not all of it. Salon, which reported this intriguing, head-scratching fact, notes that some of his apparel is from Mexico and Bangladesh.)"
And going forward, the Don will try to nationalize being crooked: "So, we steal an oil field?" Trump responded, "Excuse me. You're not stealing anything. You're taking — we're reimbursing ourselves."
http://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,2068227_2068229_2068345,00.html
Did I mention the college scam, the Mafia connections, or his public works scams? Or all the stuff he did for 9/11 recovery ----- oh wait that's nothing.
Ted Cruz is making a "major" announcement today at 4pm. Some are speculating he is going to name his VP candidate, and are thinking it will be Carly.... if he does that, that will be his nail in the coffin IMO
Good post, SD.
If Trump becomes president, I'm sure he'll constantly be telling all of us what a great job he's doing.
SD,
Nothing you can say about Trump could possibly make him any worse than Hillary- we KNOW how Hillary behaves in public office, because we've LIVED it. Trump may end up sucking, but Hillary ALREADY sucks.
Frankly, SD, IDK why you are still writing term papers here on how bad Trump is- are you scared of him or something? Doesn't almost every poll have Trump LOSING against Hillary? You should be ROOTING FOR Trump.... I smell something fishy.....
You probably just realize that, with the current zeitgeist- the president and congress with record disapproval ratings- and the anti-establishment fire that's been lit- and Trump's momentum, and all the ammo he is going to have against Hillary, when they go toe-to-toe, he'll be able to tarnish her far more than she will him- because his supporters don't care. He's bulletproof. But turn even SOME of the Hillary supporters against her (by simply speaking her track record), and they'll either switch to Trump, or stay home = Trump wins.
Strangest damn election cycle in my lifetime, that's for sure.
Very impressive foreign policy speech by Trump today. Many valid points. If they are believable, and that Trump will follow through enforcing them, then there is no better choice for POTUS. Just my opinion, of course.
Yes I am scared of Donald Trump attempting to run the country. The real question JR is why aren't you?
Steal the oil from countries we are not even at war with.
Respect Putin as a strong leader.
Ban a sizeable portion of the developed world from entering the country for any reason.
Bomb the families of terrorists.
Boots on the ground in the middle east.
Don't rule out using nuclear arms in Europe.
End NATO.
Deport 11 million people or using JR's whack-doodle number over 30 million.
Lie, lie, lie.
I think your suck-o-meter is broken and pointing the wrong way.
strangerdanger - I agree with all the foreign policy issues you disagree with. No "lie, lie, lie." An intelligent debate during a world-historic presidential election.
SD is your head in the mud? What is our foreign policy now and for decades? Essentially a colonialism policy without actual colonialism. It all comes down to controlling others. Too many folks on this board need to wake up and see what we are doing and have done...
I have a theory that Trump will be one of the greatest presidents this country will ever have, or will be one of the worst, and in end getting himself impeached. The reason I am siding with him, is because he wants to take care of the border issue. Open borders makes a country defenseless. The first duty of goverment in the constitution is to defend. Europe is realizing it now. Under the liberals plan the entire country will soon be a banana republic except for the 1% of course. Donald will put a delay in the Alensky and Binderberg Group goals, to destroy us. The patriarch of the Rothschild banking family once said: "Give me control over a nations economy, and I care not who writes the laws." Kinda where we are now with Wall Street and Banks running the show.
With North Korea completely defying the US and its allies pursuing nukes .Iran doing as they please There are nukes all over the world. We need a strong leader to defend us.
Politicians all lie, and tell us what they think we want to hear, till they are elected. You can keep your heath Ins. comes to mind. I tend to think he is not going to be an R or a D, but will do what he thinks is best for our country and try to protect, freedom. I have seen over generations, where the self severing public servants, have taken us, $18 trillion debt, comes to mind. We are as divided now, nearly as much as we were in the Civil war times. Just fighting over the spoils. Let them eat cake comes to mind. The party's are organizations, I doubt he will make it through the process if the leaders don't want him. I think, either way it goes, they loose. Thats just the way it goes in Caesars world.
I'm willing to give Donald Trump my vote. I think he has the, POTENTIAL !!! for greatness, as I Pray for this contry
Donald defines the 1%. One of his firsts act as President, his tax plan, will save $2.8B for the Trump estate. Not a bad payday for becoming President. Next he will bomb Syria and Iraq and steal their oil in an overt act of colonial theft that he calls reimbursement for helping out. His plans are seen by conservative think tanks and pundits as adding over $1 Trillion per year to the deficit.
http://fortune.com/2016/03/08/donald-trumps-tax-plan-primary/
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/433249/donald-trumps-budget-tax-hikes-or-deficits
His foreign affairs speech is more of the same, long on nationalistic slogans and bullet points, short on substance, and all very expensive with little economic or security benefit.
And no Ijay, foreign policy is not about controlling others, it's about living with others. Search for the win-win, not the win-lose. It's "walk softly and carry a big stick," not bay at the moon while beating them with your stick.
No different then the Clinton's, He is a Politician now.
.
Charles Krauthammer on Hillary Clinton
Recently, Charles Krauthammer alluded that he had no doubt some of the 30k emails Hillary deleted from her private e-mail server very likely had references to the Clinton Foundation, which would be illegal and a conflict of interest.
The Clinton Foundation is "organized crime" at its finest
Here is a good, concise summary of how the Clinton Foundation works as a tax free international money laundering scheme. It may eventually prove to be the largest political criminal enterprise in U.S. history. This is a
textbook case on how you hide foreign money sent to you and repackage it to be used for your own purposes. All tax free.
Here's how it works:
1. You create a separate foreign "charity." In this case, the Clinton's set
it up in Canada.
2. Foreign oligarchs and governments, then donate to this Canadian charity. In this case, over 1,000 did -- contributing mega millions. I'm sure they did this out of the goodness of their hearts, and expected nothing in return. (Imagine Putin's buddies waking up one morning and just deciding to send untold millions to a Canadian charity).
3. The Canadian charity then bundles these separate donations and makes a massive donation to the Clinton Foundation.
4. The Clinton Foundation and the cooperating Canadian charity claim Canadian law prohibits the identification of individual donors.
5. The Clinton Foundation then "spends" some of this money for legitimate good work programs. Unfortunately, experts believe this is on the order of 10%. Much of the balance goes to enrich the Clinton's, pay salaries to untold numbers of hangers on, and fund lavish travel, etc. Again, virtually
tax free, which means you and I are subsidizing it.
6. The Clinton Foundation, with access to the world's best accountants, somehow fails to report much of this on their tax filings. They discover these "clerical errors" and begin the process of re-filing 5 years of tax
returns.
7. Net result -- foreign money goes into the Clinton's pocket tax free and untraceable back to the original donor. This is the textbook
definition of money laundering. Oh, by the way, the Canadian "charity"
includes as a principal one Frank Giustra. Google him. He is the guy who
was central to the formation of Uranium One, the Canadian company that
somehow acquired massive U.S. uranium interests and then sold them to an organization controlled by Russia. This transaction required U.S.
State Department approval, and guess who was Secretary of State when the approval was granted.
As an aside, imagine how former Virginia Governor Bob McDonnell feels.
That poor schlep is in jail because he and his wife took $165,000 in gifts
and loans for doing minor favors for a guy promoting a vitamin company.
Not legal but not exactly putting U.S. security at risk.
Sarcasm aside, if you're still not persuaded this was a cleverly structured way to get unidentified foreign money to the Clinton's, ask yourself this:
Why did these foreign interests funnel money through a Canadian charity? Why not donate directly to the Clinton Foundation? Better yet, why not
donate money directly to the people, organizations and countries in
need?
This is the essence of money laundering and influence peddling. Now you know why Hillary's destruction of 30,000 e-mails was a risk she was willing to take. Bill and Hillary are devious, unprincipled, dishonest and
criminal ,
Charles did not write this Old Gent and it is a blend of fact, guesses, and out n out lies.
SD, you quote what our foreign policy should be. History has proven otherwise with us backing bad regimes that were favorable to us...
I will accept your fact, since I didn't check it, but many Pols seem to do pretty good no matter the party. Its a pretty lucrative career if you are willing play the game. Most being lawyers says a lot, to me. "Schemers" comes to mind
SD This part is true after looking it up., This is enough for me speculate .
This allegation is mostly true.
The Clinton Foundation stopped accepting donations from foreign governments while Hillary Clinton served as secretary of state. But the Wall Street Journal reported in March 2015 that individual donors with direct ties to foreign governments had made millions in donations while Clinton was in office:
All told, more than a dozen foreign individuals and their foundations and companies were large donors to the Clinton Foundation in the years after Mrs. Clinton became secretary of state in 2009, collectively giving between $34 million and $68 million, foundation records show. Some donors also provided funding directly to charitable projects sponsored by the foundation, valued by the organization at $60 million.
There allegations are smoke without fire. Legally, so far, they have done everything right.
You can't prove that Hillary ever profited from anything that her husband's Clinton Foundation has done. I am not sure they even have joint accounts, they most certainly have separated their finances. Nor can you prove any quid pro quo from money you can't tie to actual actions she has taken in office.
You can't even prove Bill profited from the foundation either.
So you trot out the fact that private citizens who happen to be tied to foreign governments donated to a charity that you can not prove financial benefited Hillary or changed her vote. You can't prove that these individuals did nothing more than contribute their own money to a worthy charity. You can't prove government funding at all.
And you buttress that by saying some of these donors actually contributed around the Foundation directly to the charity projects and that proves somehow Hillary is guilty of accepting the bribe. Pretty thin.
Luckily you don't have this issue with Trump since he basically does not believe in charity. The Trump Foundation, for which Trump has taken money for quid pro quo, does not really give any money out. He never offered charity to any 9/11 victims for example. Now ask yourself, where did the Don's money raised for the vets go? Nobody knows: half of it seems missing: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/what-ever-happened-to-all-that-money-trump-raised-for-the-veterans/2016/03/03/fbafd9a0-e0b2-11e5-8d98-4b3d9215ade1_story.html
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/04/08/veterans-charities-reportedly-receive-fraction-money-raised-by-trump-event.html
Are you printing lies again Old Gent? Much less kvetching about a kid working for Dad on on thread about Trump, the King of nepotism.
Do I really have to correct you or can you self-correct this time.
I will leave with this. Clinton Foundation is a non-profit 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organization. The other is a tax paying profit making Company.
I have not a clue what you meant and what is has to do with anything OG.
The money game….. How much is the Presidency worth to Donald Trump and why his fanatics can’t see it when he is literally telling them “I am ripping you off?”
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/04/19/donald-trump-s-right-that-the-game-is-rigged-for-him-to-make-money-by-running.html
It’s the beauty of the shell game when the con man shows you the pea right in front of your face before ripping you off.
His tax plan nets the Trump estate $2,800,000,000 in inheritance tax relief, the largest pay-out of any U.S. President. At $250,000 a speech, that’s 11,200 speeches. Good starting pay for winning the Presidency and there’s certainly more where that comes from.
Trump once told Fortune Magazine: ““It’s very possible that I could be the first presidential candidate to run and make money on it.”
He claims funding his own campaign which is both true and false at the same time, another shell game. As I have shown before, once again the Don is playing the shell game for the suckers. He is using the prime directive in business: don’t spend your own money and don’t put personal assets at risk.
Here’s how it works:
First, don’t spend a dime of your own money. Instead of spending your own money, you write a loan to cover costs. This loan can be repaid at any time using your money (if you win) or donations either from the Republican Party when you become the Republican candidate and they turn all party donations over to you. OR you can always repay it with supporter donations when you lose. You have years to collect these funds and I doubt the loan holder will call in the chit.
But wait, you say the Duck no take donations; he ain’t in anyone’s pocket, he’s his own man. Yeah, his own con man for the suckers. As I have been telling you, there’s a HUGE donate button on his home page. The Duck likes your dollars. He’s already covering 30% of his travel costs, his largest expense, through supporter donations. So much for self-funding. Liar.
Second when you spend money, you spend it first on yourself and profit. So Trump buys an airplane. He outfits it in gold and leather creating a $100 million plane, or so his accountants say, which usually sells for $20m. Then you charge 30% more than other charters to fly said plane and you basically use supporter donations to fund your airline to fly you around at inflated profits to yourself. Pretty cool huh. And it really helps with the stamina to fly 1% airlines while the suckers pay and pay.
Trump does the same thing when he rents space from himself for staffing and events. He pays himself for much of his public event services surrounding his galas. Every time you hear, “live from Trump Towers” or some other Trump resort, it’s cha-ching, inflated charges and extra profits paid to Trump from Trump and ultimately the suckers. It’s all a giant shell game where you loan yourself money to buy things from yourself at inflated profits for yourself. Then you get the sucker supporters to pay off the loan.
And you tell the suckers you are self-financing which you are, kind of, right up until the point where you lose and then you aren’t. Magic. If you lose, you get the suckers to foot the bill and then go on the media circuit selling your nationalistic discontent via speeches and books. If you win, you pocket $2.8B instead.
It’s a financial windfall win-win. And whether you win or lose, the suckers foot the bill. And in the hallmark of the con man, the suckers will thank him for his efforts.
"The money game", says it all. It always has. Thats what lawyers do. They write laws, with many loop holes in them for a reason.. We have different strokes, for different folks, in our justice system. Don't expect me to have faith in Government like you do. The people are beginning to wake up, realizing they are loosing hope in a better day coming. How is that Hope and Change working out.? Hence we have Bernie and the Donald stirring things up from two different perspectives. Details don't mean anything to them..
They don't know, that were are headed in the direction of the New World Order. I don't think you do either. They are working through the UN to circumvent our Constitution. There biggest problem with us is, the second amendment. After that, they have free sailing, since we already have a lower standard of living. They are working now on, the UN Agenda 21. The Donald is there biggest threat at this time to there plan. The leaders will see that he doesn't get the nomination if they can help it.
There is nothing to get so upset about. You said it "whether you win or lose, the suckers foot the bill" . Did I ever think I would hear the word Negative Interest. Nope. I didn't plan for that.
I knew it on day 1, but still had to wait for the dumb media to give in. It's official to finally say trump is the GOP nominee. Cruz finally flopped, it's over. Hopefully republicans will warm up if you weren't exactly for him, and get trump in the Whitehouse. Thanks for reading, have a wonderful day people :-)
Hopefully Trump never sees the Whitehouse unless he's a guest. He has zero substance and will be an international policy disaster. For the record, don't much like Hillary either, but she's probably the most moderate of the candidates. Too little too late from Kasich. I like a lot of what he has to say and he seems to be the most reasonable candidate.
MeisterNJ The president takes there advice from the experts, and they tweak the outcome. Exactly what hillary or trump will do. Trump has a good vision of cause and effect. That's what the potus must have. Iraq war is one for instance that hillary was In favor of. The man is by far from stupid. He's not gonna start a nuclear war lol. He is most likely going to make the biggest changes, in a positive way, that no other president has done before.
Yeah his cause is Trump and the effect of his Presidency will be a windfall inheritance profit of $2.8Billion. Now that's a big change he can dance to.
Just read the tax plan.
And guess who covers the tax revenue shortfall. The suckers who think he has good vision.
"How is that Hope and Change working out.?" Not as well as expected.
New World Order, UN circumvent Constitution, Agenda 21. You gots to love the tin foil hat crowd when they tell you the UN is taking over in partnership with a world-wide cabal of the rich......Suddenly the feckless, ineffective do-nothing UN becomes the world power pulling all our strings. Or maybe it's the New World Order, you know, where a rich cabal schemes together to steal your cheese. Hard to imagine the rich in the US getting together much less across the globe. Bloomberg and Koch Bro's in collusion, that's a rich one for sure.
Or better yet, it's the rich cabal pulling the strings of the UN to pull our strings........ Yeah, it's over all right.
Sd, you've said that a million times . Nobody cares haha. Hillary is not gonna win, relax.
I look at what The Bilderberg Group seeks, since it has been formed in 1994, and how it has affected this country. It’s made up of all the leaders of the western world, both R & Ds, For one thing, in my observation; it was during this time that the R and Ds began to really act alike. The first Bush already started the gulf war. Then 9/11 happened and we really became unified for a while. Then the monetary crash happened and divided us into the have and have nots. So much happened to change our way of life. The haves were bailed out against the normal rules of business. The have nots were expected to get the trickle down help. A funny thing happened. The jobs were already going over sea’s, helping to fill the goal of the group. (Equality and control of the western world, and there resources. UN Agenda 21)
Now we are having an election that is very unusual. I know what to expect from the Clintons. They have been invited to the group. The Donald has not, (as far as I can find), so he is trying to preserve our power and independence.
In a few months we will see what direction we go, and make plans accordingly.
It's great to see a really informed person on this thread -- one who researches and has not drank the Koolade. The bush and Clinton's are one in the same, are both part of the elite "one world order" crowd.
Good for you Old Gent for doing your homework. People like strangerdanger/mister google probably don't even have a clue about what your talking about because they go on emotion and don't really want to know any facts - just follow their party line!
Heidi Bush and Clinton, one world order, agenda 21, UN takes over Topeka, thank goodness for Donald Trump, savior of Atlantic City, protector of the poor, rescuer of 9/11 victims... it's all good.
Self funding with only $12M in donations to his self fund. Will reap $2.8B windfall in taxes upon election, largest payout of any President.
...
Ted Cruz's Dad killed Kennedy. I saw the tabloid facts today oh boy. Obama does not have US birth certificate. Area 51, Heinz 57, John Kerry, all connected in one world odder.
Sd, just imagine what kinda Clinton conspiracy he throws out there. Awesomeness
How can conservatives in one breath A: justify the actions of the 1% and condemn the poor as "takers" who have nothing to offer... and then in the next, B: start bemoaning the New World Order and how it's going to enslave the world.
If you truly believe that there exists a New World Order, who the hell do you think is behind it? The poor?
That’s the way it goes in Caesar’s world. inamail. My bible says, the poor will be with you always.
I remember the days when the husband could provide for his family, and was considered middle class. As more in the family went to work, the leaders said, I can take that problem off your hands. Just give me the money. With each transaction, you gave up a little freedom. The more you gave up, the more powerful they became, and the less freedom you have. They were having such a good time they were screwing each other, trading junk, and we had a monetary crash. The real powerful 1% said that's OK , because we will bail you out, because you created more sheep for us.
And the world turns.
reality check for this nation, time to get rid of career polititions, vote them out, term limits........go trump!
tigerx Looks like the GOP is going to unify behind Trump (presuming he gets to 1237, which shouldn't be any kind of a problem now):
http://reason.com/blog/2016/05/03/republicans-are-coming-around-to-donald
All, that is, except for one: Mr. certifiable, Mr. pipedream, Mr. wrench-in-th-works, the LUNATIC EGOMANIAC, John Kasich:
http://www.allenbwest.com/michellejesse/rnc-chair-calls-for-party-to-unite-behind-trump-kasich-responds
+1 Danny, no conservatives left in the race. "Help us, Obi-Trump Kenobi, you're our only hope".....
Congrats to the Presumptive. America will be incredible, great, and awesome again. In his own words starts about 3 minutes into the clip; first minute or so is funny too. We will be awesome together: http://www.cc.com/video-clips/1w6qq8/the-daily-show-with-trevor-noah-donald-trump-s-presidential-posturing---black-trump-s--they-love-me--rap-video
Kasich is reportedly dropping out today at 5 PM.
strangerdanger - Love the rap! Can you rhyme your rants? Bring it on, pal. 'Tis the season for funny entertainment.
"In a thread about Trump you're calling Kasich a lunatic egomaniac? Oh the irony."
LOL. Oh, they're both certifiable; Kasich is just better at hiding it than Trump is. Kasich is a MEGA-insider, and as far as he's concerned it's "his turn dammit!!!!" ... as he stomps his foot, pounds his fist, and sticks his lower lip out.
JeffersonRepub -
Kasich is history. Like strangerdanger, maybe try to rhyme your rants. Humor rules now in this Trump vs. Clinton(s) election. We all could use some funnies, having nothing else.
ok, DannyC is on to something, rhymes and humor, cause for true this is a circus except without elephants (whoops! might be wrong about the no elephants thing) -
ok, i'll play with you guys - - - -
can the pants suit frump ever beat donald trump?
can the frumpster beat out the trumpster?
billary vs sillary; who.will.win ?
can clintonisims actually be more witty than trumpisms? (i see this going both ways)
can a dinosaur beat out a blowhard ? (you guess who's who here)
did Canada close it's border to Hollywood elites yet? they need the wall i think
Not as funny but consider the author: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2esMbHDpfqA
There's also the famed f-trump rap out there but in decency I won't post the link.
And now for something completely different: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cP6VqB4klpQ
BrotherDog - Not bad at all for openers. Pretty good, actually.
strangerdanger - Yes, something completely different: "I don't believe in ghosts, and I don't believe that hair." Priceless. How about some original work?
I keep looking for Hillary tunes but apparently, she's just not funny.
Think this one is one of the best:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tu1otiBLPko
strangerdanger - Got to agree Trump is a better target for laughs, but it is all a joke now. Are you a poet and don't know it? Have fun.
The Man 
In today's Trump news or hey, let's go crazy....
Trump now has a finance team looking to clear $2B in outside donations. His team leader is Steven Mnuchin, a 20-year Goldman Sachs EVP in charge of mortgages, U.S. governments, money markets, and municipals in the fixed income, currency, and commodities. He then owned a bank leveraging the bailout in the most nefarious of manners. Check out this video on the guy: http://www.goldmansachs666.com/2011/02/goldman-sachss-steven-mnuchin.html
Mnuchin is a Soros man and has routinely donated huge bucks to Hillary. Something tells me he is not going for the $27 a donation market. The worm is turning for Trump self-funding; the big Trumpian 1% world order agenda 21 donor class is coming to town.
Trump may be the first candidate ever to profit from his primary run. How? He has never spent a cent of his own money. Instead he loaned himself money which, if he pays off the loan from donations will mean The Don spends nothing while simultaneously profiting from the interest on the loan. Profit you say? Sure, the donors will fund the interest on the loan (probably charged 20% interest) as well as any for-profit services Trump bought from Trump like the airplane (donors fund 30% of this already), use of Trump facilities like the Trump Tower victory speeches, all that Trump water handed out, and anything else Trump bought from Trump. And going forward, what pays Trump for the Trump profits ---- donations. No one before Trump has ever profited from a primary run, brilliant for Trump, not so brilliant for his supporters.
In other news, The Don announced his latest flip-flop in that he will be looking to raise minimum wage in a liberal fashion. "Trump added that “you have to have something that you can live on” and that his willingness to entertain a wage increase showed he was “very different from most Republicans.”
In still other news, The Don announced he would be raising his taxes on the rich from his proposed tax plan: "“You know, when you put out a tax plan, you are going to start negotiating,” he said. “You don’t say, ‘OK, this is our tax plan, lots of luck, folks.’ There will be negotiation back and forth. And I can see that going up, to be honest with you.” Note that 67% of the Trump tax plan cuts went to the top 20% including a whopping $2.8BILLION in tax savings to the Trumps.
That's right, Trump will not only profit on his primary run, but his Presidential payday is $2.8BILLION based on his tax plan. Brilliant for Trump. Not so brilliant for his supporters.
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/donald-trump-flip-flops-taxes-wages-he-turns-focus-general-election
And then in his most dangerous statement yet, The Don offered to bargain down the National Debt saying “I would borrow, knowing that if the economy crashed, you could make a deal.” The magnitude of danger of this simple statement can not be understated. It is financial suicide on a global basis when the top world economic power says: "thanks for the loan, but we may not honor our debts."
First recognize that the largest owner of the National Debt is you. Social Security owns about 16%. Does The Don want to pay you less?
The second largest owner is foreign governments at 13% but foreign entities own 35% of the debt. Now when 35% of our loan holders decide en mass that investing in the US is higher risk than other investments, our economy will collapse. Inflation will be rampant and your savings and asset values (like your house) will go in the toilet. You think $4 a galleon is a lot, just wait. And if Donald thinks God will give him a bailout, let me tell you, the response will come from a much lower place and we will all be joining him there.
This is by far the most dangerous thing Donald has ever uttered and even the mere uttering may be enough to toss us into overnight recession. As a potential leader of the free world, his mere words could crash the world economy. Currently we are the best investment in the world, The Don has just clearly stated: that is not true going forward.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/07/us/politics/donald-trumps-idea-to-cut-national-debt-get-creditors-to-accept-less.html?_r=0
Integrity, principles, America first. Trump is standing on all sides of any issue some times simultaneously. So far only the wall and deportation are his only two unwavering planks. Sure, he will be change but you don't have a clue as to whether it's liberal, conservative or just plain down right crazy.
And this latest economic nuclear threat is financial suicide on a global level. I have never seen a more dangerous statement made since Hoover was in office.
And so it goes in Caesars world. Not much little old me can do about it. We will see where the dust settles. Maybe we should look for that guy in Panama.
"I have never seen a more dangerous statement made since Hoover was in office."
You remember the Hoover administration? Holy crap, how old are you? He left office almost 90 years ago.
"But credit earned for reading that far."
HAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Damned straight!!!!!!
Your acting like Trump is the first person to loan money to his campaign. It has been by many people throghout the years. Do I like it, no, but Congress writes the laws and don't they always seem to favor themselves.
Most people who loan money to their campaign do expect to be repaid. There is, and IMO, should not be anything illegal in that.
None of them have made the claim to be SELF FUNDING much less turn that into some sort of outsider anti-establishment religious mantra.
None of them have used their own for-profit companies to spend said loans, now donor dollars, to reap the benefits of said personal loan at a profit.
" But credit earned for reading that far."
ianimal must have a grudge against himself.
I could not imagine anyone reading all of SD's BS. I would rather have toothpicks shoved up my fingernails.
Yes, the horror of reading. Especially when I can dismiss as BS even though there is no BS is that entry. Vote Trump.
Why would anyone assume that because I read the last sentence that I read every sentence that preceded it? It just popped out at me while reading Old Gent's post below (-;
Parsing each others words and sentences again. Anything serious to say? If not, how about some funny rap-like poetry for this ridiculous political situation in our country?
Sure they expect to get repaid, with future campaign contributions or other events even after the election has passed. They can also write them off on their taxes if they are not repaid.
But they don't profit from the loan transaction or profit on spending transactions. Trump will make interest on the loan to himself. Interest paid by donors. Trump will profit every time he buys services from himself. The donors will pay the profit dollars. That means donors will pay interest and profit on every dollar Trump spends say on his plane. That's like getting screwed twice by one Duck.
Other candidates take loans. They don't necessarily get interest back for doing it. Not many camdidates buy services from their own companies at a profit. And no candidate has ever done both at the same time while beating up on othet candidates for not being self-funded while planning to seek donor dollars all the while.
Another Trump shell game
Where are those tax readouts?
If he wants to get repaid on those loans he needs to make it up in $2700.00 chunks before the convention. Highly unlikely, Clinton had the same issue running in the 2008 race for President.
SD, any solutions on your side? Is Hilary that much better? A career politician bought and sold long ago, and bought and sold for life...
kb: not sure the timing on repayment but think it's up to the loan owner (Trump) and don't think campaign financing laws have a time limit. Also not sure if going forward, Trump can not use RNC election donations to pay back the primary costs; I am pretty sure he can. The HUGE cash prize is the Republican Party cash fund that they have been building and spending at a national level since the last election. It's the largest Presidential cash machine seen to date, and it's about to get bigger with Trump's support.
The RNC has already raised a record $135M, has $20M on hand, and is raising over $12M a month BEFORE Trump was presumptive. That's where the Donald is focusing his hired Goldman Sachs robber barron expertise to support. The amount the RNC has on hand covers most of the Donald's current debt. The Donald is about to claim he is still self funding but is accepting RNC money which is different than huge cash donations to himself (a campaign financing fact true for Clinton too). But he will say he is still self-funded, wink wink, nudge nudge, because the RNC is funding the RNCandidate.
The other fund the Donald will tap is the Super Pacs. This is a red herring to the loan repayment, but critical to the self-funding-nobody-owns-me fable Trump has spun. That won't repay his debt but will allow HUGE donations to be made and unfettered Clinton attacks (as Clinton will do to Trump). This is the political quid pro quo machine everyone gets upset about (and right that they should IMO). So far the Don who asked for all Trump PACs to cease, raised and spent only $3M in SuperPac dollars. Hillary is at $68M. Point is that Trump will gen up the SuperPacs and most likely catch up and outpace Hillary's fund. If his only input to the SuperPacs is his own rolodex, I think the funding party is over and the Don will have many hands in his pockets.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/05/04/donald_trump_can_t_self_fund_so_he_s_about_start_fundraising_relying_on.html
Main point is Trump's self-funding claim is and always has been a lie for the suckers and to use as a wedge against opponents. It's about to be washed away but he will still find a way to satisfy supporters that it's OK and proper.
Second point is that win or lose Trump will be the first candidate to make money either way, a miracle. If he wins, he will take home the largest cash prize in history: $2.8 BILLION dollars to the Trump dynasty ------ MINIMUM. No way can Hillary touch that, past present and future included.
If Trump loses: debt repaid, makes interest profit on the loan, makes additional profit for all Trump services like the $20M plane that he says is worth $100M and he pays accordingly, plus profit on top, for each chartered flight. He has spent over $2M in plane trips already that would be $60M to any other candidates on normal chartered planes of the same type. So he profits twice on each dollar he spends on Trump services; pretty neat accounting trick. Then, after he loses, he writes the bestseller, "The Game Is Rigged," goes on tour, starts a reality show where people run for office and debate the issues of the day...... Trump brand skyrockets in sales. It's all good.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/03/01/donald-trump-is-paying-himself-to-run-for-president.html
Trump wins: he takes a MINIMUM of $2.8B in tax savings based on his tax plan. MINIMUM. Trump brand skyrockets in sales.
Let's face it, Trump only cares about money. His only metric of success is the balance sheet. Nothing about his past actions would say different and everything about his current speeches changing that defies gravity. Puts him in a unique position where he just doesn't care what happens. Like when you are playing poker at a table of say, eight, and you take in a HUGE pot: luck or skill, doesn't matter. Suddenly the game, your speech, your betting habits change ---- you just don't care if you win or lose at that moment. Trump is there is perpetuity for this race.
So iJay asks, is Hillary better. Not at theft she is not. Trump will win the day there. And, IMO, and I know you disagree, he wins the lie contest too. It's just that he has no political track record of public service to count in the lie debate.
The campaign financing laws do have a limits regarding loans made to your Primary campaign as I stated prior. So Trump makes good use of having his own planes that are used to ferry staff to events instead of flying commercial. Are you saying he should not be able rack that up as an expense of his campaign? Clinton and the others candidates all used private charters to ferry themselves and staff to campaign events and rack up expenses. Unfortunately none of them have private airplanes otherwise they would all do what Trump is doing. Trump needs the abolishment of the Estate Tax to reap in 2.8 billion as you state. That needs to pass Congress which may or may not happen. I assume he won't be the only rich person to benefit from it. While I do not agree with abolishing it, I think the baseline amount needs to be raised from the current $5,560,000 which does not include the States take if you live in a State that levies one. Too many people, specifically Farmers whose estates are rich on paper that require family members to sell off huge amounts of their land just to pay the Estate taxes.
Pretty funny Trump brings up Cruz's father being involved with Oswald/JFK./Bay of Pigs/CIA and he runs for the hills the next day.
lol
Jim Garrison was investigating Cruz's old man and he ran to Canada so he wouldn't have to testify before the US Congress....that's why Cruz was born in Canada..
Next...Hillary - they are like cockroaches - shine a light and they get the hell out of Dodge.
Peace out
RU How come SD posts are starting to repeat the same info within that very post?
SD, are you getting the feeling nobody is reading, so you keep posting over and over again?
I will tell you right now, pretty much anyone that has their mind set on voting for trump, you are not going to sway to hilary with your "info" so give it up!
Off course nobody is reading SD's posts. They are too long for a generic forum such as this...
Starting Darrin? for years, the sd's (formerly the googleman) posts, have been nothing but utterly verbose repetitious self-indulgent left wing know-it-all drivel about most any subject posted on the forum.
"“It’s very possible that I could be the first presidential candidate to run and make money on it,” Donald Trump
KB: It's an intricate web, but primary loans don't have a top end if you forgo public financing; not sure where Trump is on that. Can be repaid up until the final election day or the national convention: I have found conflicting facts. After that, only an additional $250K can be repaid. Now given the amounts, I am sure Trump can cover just from the Donate button on his website worth $12M so far. He only needs around $30M. Don't think the RNC can repay the loan.
Going forward, he will tap into the RNC dollars to save face re the self-financing myth by spinning some sort of "its not breaking self-financing rules have the RNC fund the ticket (not the individual)"
It's not the fact that Trump loans himself money; it's the manner of how he might pay himself back with interest from donor dollars. That flies in the face of the self-funded man story he has been beating competitors with.
It's not the fact that Trump uses his own services as a benefit. Nor that he puts 25-cents of every dollar spent into his own pocket. It's the fact that the self-funded man uses donor dollars to pay himself egregious profits. He uses inflated prices for gilded services and profits extra on the extravagance. It's not that he has his own plane, it's that he charges donors 30% per mile more than any other charter.
So the self-funded man potentially will use donor dollars to not only pay back but reap profit on his "self-funding." He further will use donor dollars to buy expensive services where he personally profits on the additional expense.
Sometimes the self-funded man will do both simultaneously to double-down on the profits. He may be the only candidate to come out of this with a profit, a profit totally paid by his supporters.
Now you bring up the need for Congress to pass the tax plan so not a done deal. That's true and true for everything and everyone. And you're right, he will not be the only beneficiary. A grand total of .14% will be affected resulting in a $246 Billion loss in tax revenues. He's probably had these people over for dinner at some time and just guessing that not one is a farmer.
Point is that these are things Trump has said and these are things that Trump proposes. It's a Trump phenomena that followers often don't believe what he says and imagine their own end result as the probable outcome. Thus he is not a racist, misogynist, or rabble rouser; he just says that for effect. It's showmanship. His lack of plans and the fluidity and lunacy of the paucity of plans he has announced isn't important, it's just the first step in a beautiful outcome which will be completely different because he is an outsider.
Even you KB says the outsider plan has to go through the insider Congress so it might not be what the outsider wants and not so bad. Think about that.... Sounds like going the long ways round the barn to close the door....
If he means what he says and does what he says, this is what he stands for and this is what is going to happen. Now the fact that he "deals" which is Trump non-PC talk for he weasels, he changes position radically, and he lies, just makes it absolutely impossible to determine what might really happen, but this is what he says and plans to do. He has no history of doing anything for the public so you just have to start somewhere.
"If he means what he says and does what he says, this is what he stands for and this is what is going to happen. "
Yup. That's what all the Trump voters are COUNTING on.
(actually securing the border, stopping the flood of illegal immigrants, perhaps a moratorium on muslim immigrants, being pro-business so as to create actual jobs in the private sector, not more jobs in the public sector, sucking on taxpayer dollars, re-strengthening the military, getting rid of common core which is an unmitigated disaster..... evil stuff......)
Frankly, I'm not a huge Trump-as-president fan, BUT I don't feel like he's the lesser of 2 evils as the choice has been in previous elections. As stated, if he does what he says he's going to do, I think he will be at least an adequate president, if not a good one. If he ONLY stops the flood of illegals and secures the border, he'll do more than has been done to help this country in the last 8 years. I'm really hoping as we get into the general election campaign that he does NOT waffle on his stated goals, and that the American people continue to wake up.....
Sometimes you know it's a lie even before you spend the five seconds to prove its a lie. Good job DannyC
http://www.snopes.com/hillary-clinton-benghazi-msnbc/
strangerdanger - MSNBC worked even harder and longer than you to spin Hillary's lies while USSOS during the Benghazi attacks. But the truth, not the spin prevails. She should be indicted for her lies and her heartless, unpatriotic defense of her lies, as should MSNBC. On this issue alone, Hillary Clinton is an easy target for Donald Trump.
Both Hillary and Bill Clinton are a target-rich environment. Count on this: Trump will strike.
There have been seven Congressional Hearings into Benghazi mostly led by Republicans, none of which "indicted for her lies and her heartless, unpatriotic defense of her lies." They all concluded there was no wrongdoing and plenty of tragic mistakes. MSNBC was not involved in those hearings or conclusions.
SD - Echo, echo - Five weeks of blaming it on a video, and then "What difference does it make at this point?" Who else bought that besides diehard Hillary Clinton supporters and MSNBC? The ineffectiveness of the congressional hearings is part of the reason voters have distaste for congress, and the voters will rule in this election, mostly voting for Trump.
Yeah, Republican commissions in a Republican Congress let Hillary off the hook. That's rich. It's important to discount those who disagree with you yet somehow I don't think Trump will move Congress. At least that's what Paul Ryan is signaling. And if it goes down the way I hope it will, Trump will cost conservatives the house and senate.
I do agree that Hillary weasel-worded the video blame in legalese but if you listen very closely you will hear that she always hedged the bet between that and terrorism. Unfortunately even a Secretary of State answers to a higher authority and must toe the line upon occasion on the orders of the boss. But she was very careful to couch her words about the tape --- if you listen very carefully and have a lawyer decipher it for you.
"The ineffectiveness of the congressional hearings is part of the reason voters have distaste for congress,"
+1.
"but if you listen very closely you will hear that she always hedged the bet between that and terrorism. "
LIE. Yes, I'm calling you a liar, since you feel free to call me one. "if you listen VERY CLOSELY".... only if you listen with DS's twisted, confirmation-biased mind. What a bunch of BS.
SD - Trump has nothing to lose - there are no effective conservatives the house and senate. Trump is Trump, and millions are behind him. Against such a pathetically flawed opponent, her impeached ex-president husband, plus intense disgust for the political establishment in both parties, most voters are willing and capable of figuring things out for themselves, not needing or wanting a lawyer to decipher it for them. Ergo, Trump wins big time. Wake up and feel the horror.
I do have to say, nothing would surprise me- in today's voting America, it would not surprise me if Hillary won, or if Trump won by a close margin, or if Trump won by a landslide. The electorate is so divided and so unpredictable, it's not worth even trying. It sure SEEMS like Trump is headed for a win, based on most media reports Ive seen, and most people I know/talk to, despite the polls saying the opposite. BUT, never discount the democrats' advanced strategy of bussing people to polls, and having dead people vote in droves :)
Nothing would surprise me. Actually ONE thing would- if somewhere along the line, Trump changed his mind and dropped out. But other than that, nothing would surprise me.
It is worth noting that both Trump and Hillary supporters are RABID- and for the exact same reasons- because "anybody but the other person". The people NOT rabidly supporting either candidate will decide this election, and it'll be interesting (for better or worse) to see how much common sense the American people have left, if any.
Trump being Trump, that's all. Tough to fight such a man. He knocked Jeb Bush out so easily it made him look like a baby; and he always thought that he was more qualified than "Dubya" so what a downer...
The Clinton juggernaut (Hilary for America Committee) has raised $187MM and has spent $158MM. Also, let's not forget the Hilary Victory Fund.
"What a bunch of BS" Prove it jr. Maybe you can post one of your famous links of fiction.
No, DS, I'm saying what YOU post is a bunch of BS. It's nothing more than OPINION- "but if you listen very closely you will hear that she always hedged the bet between that and terrorism. " That is OPINION, not fact.
"Against such a pathetically flawed opponent, her impeached ex-president husband"
So we are just rewriting history?? I don't recall Bill Clinton being impeached.
No rewrite- he WAS impeached. He was also acquitted.
Bill Clinton, the 42nd President of the United States, was impeached by the House of Representatives on two charges, one of perjury and one of obstruction of justice, on December 19, 1998. The charges stemmed from his extra marital affair with former White House Intern Monica Lewinsky and his testimony about the affair during a sexual harassment lawsuit filed against him by Paula Jones. He was subsequently acquitted of these charges by the Senate on February 12, 1999.[1] Two other impeachment articles – a second perjury charge and a charge of abuse of power – failed in the House.
Why must you continually brand people with silly names. Has Trump let your inner rudeness out?
I have posted the Hillary story before, you have not. But here it is again....
"New e-mails disclosed by the House Select Committee on Benghazi were among the most newsworthy elements at the 11-hour hearing on Oct. 22 featuring Clinton. But a review of Clinton’s public statements indicates that she was generally careful to separate remarks about the attack and the protests. However, there may have been a different story concerning her private remarks to the families of the victims, according to recent interviews."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/10/30/is-hillary-clinton-a-liar-on-benghazi/
Let me be clear on my opinion: "I do agree that Hillary weasel-worded the video blame in legalese but if you listen very closely you will hear that she always hedged the bet between that and terrorism. Unfortunately even a Secretary of State answers to a higher authority and must toe the line upon occasion on the orders of the boss. But she was very careful to couch her words about the tape --- if you listen very carefully and have a lawyer decipher it for you."
Further, IMO, She hedged, she weaseled, she did not lie. But oh so close. Obama's re-election was the cause of the dance and Obama called the shots, but Hillary could have chosen another path than listening to the boss and saving the election for the party she so fiercely defends.
And no one can say Trump will lie less; he has been caught in lies from day 1 and is on record as being the liar of the year --- 2015 and will win this year as well.
So prove your point jr. See if you can do it without calling names.
Darwin - Lying as the commander-in-chief of the USA is not acceptable, both for Bill Clinton and for Hillary Clinton, acquittal or "getting off the hook" notwithstanding. No lies allowed in this position.
"Why must you continually brand people with silly names."
"See if you can do it without calling names."
Lead by example, SD.
Think about the thousands of employees Trump has. I'm pretty sure some are in a union, which he hates, some probably complain about making $8.25 an hour to clean his toilets. And to think of how he is what he is... will run America, like a corporation. I still recall the CEO of JP Morgan, telling Reagan to "speed it up", during his inauguration speech. What nerve... but Reagan and banking went together like bacon and eggs. Trump's best friends are big banks.... not you, the average Joe. He will definitely put this country over the edge. Good thing Trump "loves the uneducated". They have no idea that they are voting against their own best interest(unless you're worth millions). The media gave him 24/7 free branding, which they were instructed to do from the start. Him and the Koch brothers, own the media, so spun, makes me sick. Trump's finger on the nuclear button scares me. Trump is a male version of Paris Hilton. Her bad behavior made her a "God" to young girls, made her very rich and famous. Trump's behavior is very similar, only he got divorced for always cheating on his wives. Take another look at Atlantic City... see what Trump's lapdog, Christie did. Look at the property values and tax history.... since they can't use eminent domain to claim all the property, to start(again, after Trump went bankrupt down there), their little 75 million dollar revamp of the place... so they are taxing them into homelessness. America will be the next Atlantic City, God forbid.
Prove my point... that you talk BS. (which means you are presenting your political OPINION as fact, and challenging that your OPINION be disproved.) You can't prove OR disprove the OPINION.
BTW, I think you'll remember, that several of us DID prove you talk BS.... very recently in fact.... :)
strangerdanger - I read you as stating that the Benghazi video distraction was under orders from the "boss", Obama, during his reelection campaign. I agree with this. But does it make Hillary Clinton more qualified to be POTUS, or a cover-up artist? The Benghazi issue will not go away.
In your own minds you proved it; I proved you wrong.
Again, post some facts, not conjecture, and skip the hyperbole. I posted facts, her words, and The Washington Post translated it for you. Match or drop.
She did not lie. I can understand what and why she did what she did. That does not say I believe it was the best or honorable choice. As Trump would say: politics is a dirty, nasty, game. He has proven himself the best at it willing to go where angels fear to tread.
Trump is the liar of the year for 2015; he has a lifetime of lying. He even tells you straight-up that he plans to deal everything which is Trump-code for don't believe anything I say, nothing is sacred. When he gets caught in a lie, he tells you a different story, usually another lie. You trudge forward in your belief that he, as an outsider, will make things better only because he is an outside, not because of what he says or plans to do which most agree are mostly lies. Ask Atlantic City and the workers there ---- do you feel better now? Ask his Chinese, Mexican or other foreign workers --- getting a leg up on the future working for Trump? Ask the illegals he hired in NYC or FLA --- did you get made great again? Ask the students at Trump University --- are you suing because you're happy in the Trump truth? Ask the multitude of women he's divorced, oh wait, they did get a big pay-off for being screwed, never mind.
So prove it, match or drop.
sparks: not to rain on your Trump parade, but while Trump and Koch are all master media spinmeisters, the Koch brothers hate Trump. They say he's so bad for business they might support Hillary as they watch all their brilliant and well-executed work at the local level over the past 8 years go down the Trump toilet.
" I can understand what and why she did what she did. That does not say I believe it was the best or honorable choice. As Trump would say: politics is a dirty, nasty, game. He has proven himself the best at it willing to go where angels fear to tread."
Now we get down to it: the bottom line is, you are willing to forgive/ignore lies and collusion so long as it's done by "your" team. You have shown this over and over again.
As for me, I'm done with anyone who has PROVEN themselves unfit for elected office based on their performance in elected office. Hillary qualifies in more ways than just Benghazi. The difference between Hillary and Trump is that while Hillary has LIED to the American people (under orders or not, I don't care), and FAILED as a secretary of state, Trump, while he may be a liar, hasn't proven himself as a liar or failed the American people ... yet. He may well do so. I seem to remember you being real big on the "give him a chance" line when Obama was running.... but yet, you won't give Trump a chance- you'll vote for a failure and a liar instead.
You party bias shows itself constantly; it doesn't matter how many words you type, everyone knows it now. Everyone knows it to the point that they don't even read your full posts anymore, already knowing they are the ultimate in political spin and confirmation bias. I've said it before, you're talented enough at it to work for the government.
"Now we get down to it: the bottom line is, you are willing to forgive/ignore lies and collusion so long as it's done by "your" team. You have shown this over and over again. " You have once again embellished upon what I said in your own words. I said I understand. I did not say forgive, I did not say ignore. And gosh knows what collusion you're talking about. I am still waiting for you to prove she lied. But continue on your feckless way without facts if you so choose.
"I seem to remember you being real big on the "give him a chance" line when Obama was running.... but yet, you won't give Trump a chance- you'll vote for a failure and a liar instead." Oh, is that one of your principle thingy's again where if you said it once, even 4 years ago, it's not only true today but true for anyone running for office? There were plenty of Republicans I would have given a chance during the primaries. How many Democrats are you good for? Maybe you should remember your "just give em a chance" next time you are denigrating whatever group of the week you choose to pick on.
Well, I ran out of facts. Better find me a funny Trump picture......
Hey sd, big ut o for your savior , Clinton.. the polls show big trouble for her and billionaire trump has barely started the onslaught.
DS - "Well, I ran out of facts."
Aw, hell... you did that a long time ago....
+1 for 4catmom!
So where are your facts on Hillary lies over Benghazi jr? All you got is your feckless approach of calling names, "Trumpinizing" people through false branding, and your loud howling at the moon.
Meanwhile what you support, or don't, or can't quite decide, or whatever you feel in your last post re: Trump: http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/few-stand-in-trumps-way-as-he-piles-up-the-four-pinocchio-whoppers/2016/05/07/8cf5e16a-12ff-11e6-8967-7ac733c56f12_story.html
and so on, and so on.
Well... Trump did declare we had no business in Iraq. Who else has the balls to admit the truth. The truth that Neocons and Zionists pushed us into this war costing trillions of dollars, thousands of lives, and tens of thousands injured.
This is important shi! that is overlooked by all of the other candidates...
iJay - This is important shi! that is overlooked by the warring posters on HL as well. Kudos for keeping reality in the picture.
iJay - In reality Trump didn't say a word for well over a year. Then Trump said he was for it, just wished they had done the job right the first time. (ie during Kuwait continued towards Baghdad and took him out) Just after invasion Trump is calling it a great success and predicts a huge upswing on Wall St. (which is all he seemed concerned with other than how he couldn't build his tower in Chicago as high as he wanted) Trump against invasion is a complete work of fiction now in the perfect 20/20 hindsight of 2016. Just go back and listen to his past interviews, Howard Stern, Fox News, etc. He was against bungling it, not doing it.
Trump is exactly what 4catmom's link said. Not just alternate reality but he's functionally equivalent to an internet hoax. "Milk is poison, every disease known to man is caused by it, no other mammal drinks another animal's milk". The supporters all go "yeah, yeah, yeah" and fist pump. Quietly some guy in the corner says "cats". But the hoax continues to be perpetuated even though second graders poke holes in it. But the worst part as was previously mentioned here, no one cares. They don't care it's a hoax, the myth is what some people really want to be truth and alternate reality sinks in.
GC - Trump is against any and all American failures. On the first Iraq war, he was for finishing it off properly, bringing down Hussein in the end game, which GHW Bush did not do. On the second Iraq war, as you said, he was against bungling it again, but for doing it to finish the job. American failures are causes for concern. They are dangerous. Obama's failure in Iraq, leading to ISIS emergence, is a horrific case in point. Obama's shady deal with Iran is even worse, possibly leading to a multi-national nuclear middle east, ready to attack the US on several fronts, under several flags, and in several new and heretofore unthinkable ways.
GC, Bush senior was smart and new it would take at least 800k troops to do it right, so Gulf War I stopped short. At the end of the day you cannot occupy another country and then get involved with regime building. How would we like that -- if another country came in and built a new regime for us? We have backed lot of bad regimes that were good for us. Iran become a problem because we tried to control their oil. This is a fact, do your research. This is still the greatest country in the world. It just needs to be taken back by people that are not bought and sold by special interest groups, especially special interest groups representing foreign countries.
Again, I say anything is better than the status quo in Washington, it is disgusting. If the founding fathers could look on they would all vomit...
DannyC, and the latest trend is attempt to equate anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism. This is purely disgusting how these Zionists will use any tool at their disposal to continue with their illegal and immoral actions in Palestine.
Take a look at this, makes a lot of sense...
https://youtu.be/p2QMQi-m63E
iJay - Thanks for warning everyone the video is David Duke. There's a couple of eggs and some toast I'll never get back again. The rest I wouldn't dignify.
DannyC - I'm not sure I agree with all of that but let's stick to the subject of Trump. Sure he's against failure but the whole point of mentioning 20/20 hindsight is how do you know ahead of time? Trump being against the Iraq invasion is fantasy. He's only saying that now because it's politically expedient. He's stuck between a choice of starting wars like Isis and seeing if he does/doesn't win or 4 years of "America Under The Dome". His isolationist policy he had Jeff Sessions cook up for him loses. All the threats of the world go unchecked, including helping both the Russian and Chinese economies.
Thanks for the laugh Ijay, now I need a coffee-spew free keyboard :>) "Trump did declare we had no business in Iraq. Who else has the balls to admit the truth." Never thought I would see Trump and truth so close together.... And then DannyC doubles down with "This is important shi! that is overlooked by the warring posters on HL as well. Kudos for keeping reality in the picture." Trump and truth and reality......
Trump has the advantage of selective memory on most subjects combined with finding ways to be on more than two sides of any given fence simultaneously. He also has the advantage of never making any public service decision. He didn't even take action for 9/11 recovery. He has just been a political wonk.
Before the war Trump supported going in and probably, if he ever did anything for public service, would have voted for it. However, shortly after the war, Trump was against it seemingly because of personal economic reasons. Behind the scenes in all this was Trump's personal finances, troubled times in Atlantic City and the need to float some junk bonds to remain afloat. Can't have a war get in the way of junk bonds now can you.
http://www.factcheck.org/2016/02/donald-trump-and-the-iraq-war/
On Hillary and the war Trump initially said: "Don’t forget that decision was based on lies given to her.’ “She’s very smart and has a major chance to be our next president." The full text is even more damning. There's got to be a TV ad on this one coming.....
Beyond his reasons, Trump was for the war before it began and against the war shortly after it's initiation. Here's my point: Trump wavers on most topics and his policy stands. His actions are very unclear and unpredictable until he takes them. He has had a lot of personal success. He has had a lot of totally cataclysmic failures where people got hurt. And he has zero success or failure in operating in the public service sector. So far he has told us little except nationalistic pabulum and wavered on most of the things he has said. He is conservative and liberal, sometimes both at the same time. He has offered the nuclear option and now, worse yet, has offered the economic nuclear option that will destroy the U.S. economy overnight.
Going nuclear: it's all part of the deal. And for 60 years, it has only been a good deal for Trump.
I never said Trump was perfect but IMHO he is the least worst and he is the choice for those who are fed up with politics as usual. What are your options, Hilary LOL...
I find it humorous that folks slam Hillary for staying in her marriage after Bill’s infidelities much less Trump calling her an "enabler." How many of our HackettstownLifers are in a similar infidelity boat with and choose to remain married? Better yet is when folks use it in a post talking Trump like there is a point of comparison between the two in traditional marriage. If Hillary is an enabler, what does Trump enable with his words and deeds?
Trump does believe in traditional marriage. Three times more than most. As a 1-percenter deserving more than us commoners, he has bought and paid for 3… let’s be polite and call em wives, so far at a cost of over $1 million per year to be able to freely move on and drill a new well. He prefers to shop for his younger, thinner, better halves in Europe by marching over one Slavic nation after another like another well-known German. Call it his personal immigration plan with full assimilation opportunities.
Trump’s first marriage to Ivana had a mere 24-year age gap. That's just Trump change in years. But for us, I have kids 24-years younger than I. Trump has kids and wives. After 13-years and three kids, Ivana runs away with $25M for her efforts. Rumor has it the payout was upped 1/4 million per kid. Acrimonious memorable-quote ridden front page divorce based of Donald’s public dilly dalliances with Marla Maples. Tiffany born out of wed lock before second marriage lasting 6 years to Maples, 18-years his junior. Donald settled this matter for $2M. Must have looked like a bargain. 58-year old Donald then marries 34-year old Melania and so far 11 years, one kid, and counting. Watch out Melania --- three on a match.
Now Trump has made Bill's sex life fair game in his campaign against Hillary. So next we'll look into the sex lives of Ivana, Marla, and Melania. Ought to be great fun!
Trump is great because he is honest. He's not super polite, but that's beside the point. When 3 40 year old African Americans on Watters World could not identify George Washington, and didn't even know what war he helped us win, I wanted to puke. (I am Swedish, and I knew the answers.)
He wants to make this country great again. AND he is not beholden to any special interest groups.
keri "Trump is great because he is honest." Actually he is a very good huckster. That's why the sucker's see that he's lying but think it's OK.
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/
He racks them up so quick you need a score card: http://www.dailywire.com/news/4834/trumps-101-lies-hank-berrien
Every fact check organization out there agrees: Trump lies like no other liar has lied before. And that ain't no lie.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/2015-biggest-lies_us_56787039e4b014efe0d66a79
And the amazing part is even when caught in a lie, the Donald often replaces it with another lie. He's pathological. http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2016/03/3-insights-about-donald-trumps-constant-lying.html
So Trump is the most honest person in the world to some people who obviously see something beyond the lies that outweighs the truth. That's what hucksters depend upon to succeed.
keri -
A president who is a racist and degrades women and people with disabilities will make this country great again?? Trump is the one who should make you puke.
Since we have a Swedish writer , this might interest Her/Him. I said before, this election is about,One who wants to make this country great again. The other for one world order. If they win, you have to choose what European forum of goverment you would choose for America. President Obama made his choice Friday.
’
http://www.mrctv.org/blog/obama-put-nordic-countries-charge-while-because-they-could-clean-things
happiest girl,
"Trump does not want to deport any particular person because they may be hispanic or any other race. He wants to deport people who are illegal aliens. If you think the term 'illegal alien' has the same meaning as the term 'hispanic', then you are the racist here not Donald Trump.
Shockey Obama better hurry if he wants to get that New World Order before he loses command as leader of the free world. Think your tin foil hat will last till then? That article not only had some erroneous conclusions, it even dared to quote Obama saying something different. Amazing.
Lucky for you Trump just wants to Make America Great Again like we used to be. That's called Old World Order or OWO. OWO should not be mistaken for Old White Order.....:>)
I dunno Shockey, wherever those aliens are coming from, Trump's gonna deliver em to Mexico....... Course he could of lied.
"All Mexicans are rapists."
Funny thing, according to Don's ex-wife and a number of his workers and beauty pageant contestants call him. Guy says he's not a politician but pays off more women than the Kennedys.
shockey -
Why are you bringing up deportation?
I said Trump is a racist and he is.
He said Mexicans are criminals and rapists.
Then, he added Latinos to the list, saying they are criminals and rapists too.
I notice you also avoid addressing Trumps disgusting and degrading statements about women and his making fun of people with disabilities.
And for DannyC: I think you'll figure the tune :>)
Trump walks triumphantly to the stage
With trucker’s brim pulled down low
Ain't no sound but the sound of his rage
Machine gun mouth ready to go
Are you ready? Hey are you ready for this?
Are you hanging on the edge of your seat?
From the podium the insults rip
To the sound of deal man’s beat
Dump, Dump, Dump
Another one dumps the Trump
Dump, Chump, Trump
Paul Ryan dumps the Trump
And McConnell is gone, and Graham is gone
Another one dumps the Trump
Hey, Bush gonna get you too
When Trump bites the dust
How do you think conservatives will get along
Without you, when you're gone
You took them for every principle they had
Then kicked them when they’re down
Are you happy, are you satisfied?
How long can the party stand the heat
From the podium the insults rip
To the sound of deal man’s beat
Dump, Dump, Dump
Another one dumps the Trump
Dump, Chump, Trump
Pataki dumps the Trump
And Ridge is gone, and Paul is gone
Even Glenn Beck dumps on Trump
Hey, even Cruz gonna get you too
When Trump bites the dust
With heartfelt apologies to Queen and John Deacon
happiest girl - All of those things are pretty minor compared to Trump refusing to rent to blacks in the 1970's.
strangerdanger,
Now you are showing some real talent! How about one to the tune of "We Are The Champions"?
GC-
Yes, I forgot about that. I guess something so abhorrent as that got blocked out of my memory.
Does anyone know what happened to the Kelly-Trump interview that was supposed to air tonight at 8:00 on fox?
positive 
DannyC: for this to work, you have to imagine Trump at the podium surrounded by the Trump girls in their little, expensive, black dresses, fire-engine red lips and heads bobbing......frightening
Requiem to a Trump supporter
With apologies to Robert Palmer
"Your lights are on, but you're not home
Your mind is Trump’s to own
You see his tweets, your body shakes
Keep America Great is all it takes
You can't sleep, you can't eat
You have no doubt, Hillary’s a creep
Your throat is tight, you can't breathe
A slur filled speech is all you need
Ohh oohh
You like to think that you're immune to the stuff, oh yeah
It's closer to the truth to say you can't get enough
You know you're gonna have to face it
You're addicted to Trump
You see the signs, but you can't read
You laugh when he says Meghan bleeds
Your heart beats when it’s insult time
Another tweet and you'll be mine, a one track mind
You can't be saved
A huge wall is all you crave
If minimum wage’s left for you
You don't mind if you do
Ohh oohh
You like to think that you're immune to hate stuff, oh yeah
It's closer to the truth to say you can't get enough
You know you're gonna have to face it
You're addicted to Trump
Your lights are on, but you're not home
Your will is Trump’s to own
You’re job’s OK, America’s fine
Yet another tweet and you'll be mine
Ohh oohh
You like to think that you're immune to hate stuff, oh yeah
It's closer to the truth to say you can't get enough
You know you're gonna have to face it
You're addicted to Trump
Might as well face it, you're addicted to Trump
Might as well face it, you're in love with a chump
Might as well face it, orange grandpa’s a grump
Might as well face it, Trump’s gonna get whumped
Might as well face it, you're addicted to Trump
"When you don't like the message......"
Implying ad hominem?
So why, in literally your very next sentence, do you take a jab at Trump's family?
The women, no less... Why do you hate women SD?
When you don't like the message is not an ad hominem; when you don't like the message, shoot the messenger is not an ad hominem. There was only one sentence, so the next sentence was in the next post and was not an ad hominem.
Yet you are calling me names left and right. Now that's some ad hominem, lots of them. I am sorry but if you don't see Robert Palmer's Addicted to Love as an allegory to Trump at the podium surrounded by his female portion of the family, you have little imagination. In any event, again, not an ad hominem much less indicative of hatred of women.
Ask and you shall receive:
Hallelujah
apologies to Jeff Buckley and the Lord...
Well I've heard there was one world order
That Hillary used and it pleased the Lord
But you don't really care for liberals, do you?
Well story goes like this:
The Bush, the Cruz, the Rubio fall and the Trump will lift
The deal man king mispronouncing Hallelujah
Hallelujah
Hillary will use ya
Hallelujah
Hilary will rule ya
H a l l e l u j a h
strangerdanger - You owe an apology not only to Robert Palmer, Queen and John Deacon, but to the rest of us as well. I apologize for suggesting that you rhyme your rants, looking for decent humor, but yielding the same old vitriol instead. My lesson: "Be careful what you ask for."
Gee, going back on something you said. How odd for the principled class. What was your intent? Were you just baiting me so you could have this moment?
Yes, I apologize to everyone that you asked me directly to rhyme and then expected something completely different and new in tone. As far as vitriolic, please show us exactly what you meant.
I note I don't need to Jeff Buckley. No double standard there eh.
"When you don't like the message is not an ad hominem; when you don't like the message, shoot the messenger is not an ad hominem. There was only one sentence, so the next sentence was in the next post and was not an ad hominem.
That is EXACTLY what an ad hominem is. You don't like Trump, so you took a jab at his daughters and other family.
So because you created two posts it wasn't your next sentence?
strangerdanger - Look up "vitriol", and then state that you did not assert it in your posts. This thread is all yours alone. Tired of jousting with no jokes. Out of here.
Yes, I did imagine them as the backdrop for the music video based on the manner Trump rolled them out supported by the Rolling Stones. No music video image there for sure. Pretty evil stuff especially viewed against your name calling.
DannyC: I looked up vitriolic and nowhere in those song parodies did I see "filled with bitter criticism or malice." much less any bitter criticism or malice. A lot was just commenting on what Trump himself said. What jousting? All I did was ask you to support what you said so I could know what you meant.
Perhaps you are "out of here...."
Dismissed.
I think misterg may have had a senior moment and confused ad hominem with non sequitur? Damn Latin phrases will get you every time (-;
The Robert Palmer song parody was great, BTW... not sure what DannyC was looking for.
misterwho? et tu ianimus.....
With many years of Latin I can fill a bar with German (latin) drinking songs or dirty ones. Had to sing each holiday season and teacher demanded volume yet liked to keep it interesting. Seems most of the lyrics revolved around drinking till you spew because you will be dead tommorrow. Although my favorite is probably a most subtle sage advice ever: semper ubi sub ubi.
It's amusing to see the rantings of the left wing loons become more and more strident as the realization that their savior - Emperor Haile Obama the 1st, will soon be history (bad history at that) and their savior to be - Queen Hilary (the anointed one) is bound for the dustbin as well. Whatever will the poor strangergoogle have to sling his barbs about, it must be so hard, being the smartest guy in the room afterall and all the dummies just don't get it.
Think about all the businesses he owns. He has many HR departments. Full of lawyers fighting unions, denying workman comp or disability claims, all day long. That's how America Inc. will be like. One more giant business he can use to his own agenda.
Think about the racketeering and fake charity called the clinton foundation. Is that how hillary will run the country? Oh wait, hillary hasn't really run anything. 4 years of bad judgement, inappropriate favors, and endless scandals. Hillary ain't running for president to make my life better and that I can tell you. I'll be fine voting for Trump.
Might as well face it, Ravi's addicted to Trump.
Gee, if Hillary hits the dustbin, indeed, whatever will this "loon" have to talk about.....Many conservatives live in a black n white world; you're either with them or a "left wing loons." No strident name calling there.
Clinton Foundation has been accused of much, guilty of naught but hot air so far.
However Trump's Mafia decades-long ties are well-known: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/mar/02/ted-cruz/yes-donald-trump-has-been-linked-mob/
http://thefederalist.com/2015/07/28/how-close-was-donald-trump-to-the-mob/
So why hasn't Trump put out his tax returns? There is absolutely no legal reason for him not to produce them before or during an audit. The worst that can happen is we would also see what a shabby bookkeeper he is.
How bad can it be? We all know he doesn't pay taxes, that's not going to be news as he sloughs it off saying he used the laws well. Most know that he is a crappy philanthropist and his charity contributions will be lower than yours. There must be something else really juicy in there like a hair transplant deduction :>)
Worse yet, why can't he release past returns. Presumably those audits have completed since he is well documented as saying he is audited every year.
Hillary has released the past 8 years of her taxes. What's up Don? Whatcha hiding this time?
Just because someone doesn't like Trump doesn't automatically mean they like/support Hillary.
sparks64 - definitely in the "low information" column. By the by, I don't care for Trump either but, it's time to break the back of the one worlders and he's the only person in the right time and place to do so, otherwise this once great country may be gone - forever.
I am not following what a candidate putting out their tax returns has to do with anything.
And to say "we all know he doesn't pay taxes".....um....what?
"Hillary has released the past 8 years of her taxes. What's up Don? "
Individual income tax returns including those of public figures are private information, protected by law.
Maybe you can show us a law stating otherwise.
Trump is the one that strongly encouraged Romney to release his when Romney was against the idea. Therefore, he needs to take his own advice and release the returns. Frankly if it were Clinton or Sanders refusing to do so those on the right would be screaming bloody hell.
Man,
You're correct in stating there isn't a law requiring presidential candidates to release their tax returns.
However, every other candidate for the past 40 years has released their returns. Like Bonv says, he needs to take his own advice that he so freely gave Mitt Romney four years ago and release his.
I think the question that needs to be asked is WHY is he being audited every year? What has he done in the past that causes a red flag to go up with the IRS every year?
"I think the question that needs to be asked is WHY is he being audited every year?"
Do you know if he is the only rich person being audited every year?
If he does will you actually read them and believe them?
Better yet has any one read Hilllary's and BELIEVED them?
Does anyone read their own and believe them?
"I think the question that needs to be asked is WHY is he being audited every year? What has he done in the past that causes a red flag to go up with the IRS every year?"
Ummm.....
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#safe=off&q=donald+trump+net+worth
"Better yet has any one read Hilllary's and BELIEVED them?"
She has at least released hers for scrutiny. For goodness sake if Nixon released them while under audit + every other candidate in the last 40 years + Trump on record telling Romney they had to be released = what is the real issue? He is either creating more drama (which he thrives on) or there is some questionable information in the returns.
"Do you know if he is the only rich person being audited every year?"
No, but not every "rich person" is running for President.
kb2755 - Sanders released the Form 1040 a long time ago, and the full return with all the schedules in April.
Darrin - a bunch of off shore accounts doesn't hurt either, does it?
The Man - The Clintons paid over 30% in income taxes. That not only makes it easy to believe, it makes you wonder why they don't get better tax attorneys. Compare that to Romney at 13%. That's a potential fast track to an audit.
PS. I'm guessing the "he pays no taxes" is a nod to Leona. After all, no way Donald is gonna be caught being one of "the little people". ;-)
"Darrin - a bunch of off shore accounts doesn't hurt either, does it?"
With America having the financial stability of a sinking ship, if I had that amount of money, I would diversify it too
And you may want to read this:
http://www.forbes.com/2010/07/26/offshore-bank-accounts-irs-ubs-fbars-personal-finance-robert-wood.html
Point is it standard practice for presidential candidates to release tax forms. They all have done it for the past 40 years.
Trump said he would release his taxes except that he's under audit. There is nothing legally that precludes him from releasing his taxes. Unless he's afraid of publicizing a correction or getting caught for cheating on his taxes by releasing them showing the cheat.
Trump stated he pays very little in taxes which is why I noted we would not be surprised at that. We also know from his past that he gives very little to charity. I do not think his supporters would care much about either of those.
There is also nothing stopping Trump from releasing earlier years since those audits have already been completed. Makes one wonder what stinky little secret Trunp is trying to keep a secret.
No Darrin, not investments, and not personal accounts. The game is played by creating a foreign company, let the foreign company do the deal let's say like buying a huge yacht. You lease it back to your US company or yourself so it's actually an expense. The foreign company is in a jurisdiction that doesn't have corporate taxes so the profit it makes on the lease and the sale is tax free. You just can't bring it back to the US or it incurs income tax. So you let it sit, tax deferred, until ready to take the profit when you have losses to offset it.
Did you miss the whole "repatriated cash" bashing Trump himself did? The idea is he's all over a company like Apple yet just as big a culprit of it as they are. That's why he wants to essentially give an amnesty rate of only 10% (originally it was scott free) to "repatriated cash".
But your article shows exactly why Trump doesn't want to give over the tax returns. Even if it's tax free, he has to declare all of the accounts and foreign companies in the return.
It's funny the stuff some of you will nitpick at Trump over, yet turn a completely blind eye to the massive lies and corruption that is clinton. All bent over Donald not releasing his tax forms, but couldn't have cared less (at the time) when Obama couldn't produce a birth certificate. You people are transparent as hell...we can see right through you.
Not saying the Trump people aren't turning a blind eye to their boy either- they are- but in "the battle of the lesser of two evils", putting political party blind loyalty aside, Trump wins in spades. And as far as that- political parties- have you figure out yet that people aren't voting for Trump because he's a republican? The people voting for Trump are almost as mad at the GOP as they are at the democrats. Trump stepped into, and then helped further fuel, the perfect storm.
"It's funny the stuff some of you will nitpick at Trump over, yet turn a completely blind eye to the massive lies and corruption that is clinton".
" You people are transparent as hell...we can see right through you."
+1
Prove any "massive lies and corruption that is Clinton." All you have is innuendo, alleged wrongdoings without conviction, and your wild conspiracy theories. Or you go after Bill.
Its funny the trump stuff you think is a nitpick, yet completely turn a blind eye to the massive lies and corruption that is trump.
How can you say taxes are a nitpick? You haven't seen them yet have you? But somehow you already know it's a nitpick......
We call that blind faith.
Oh no, the birthers are back and there's gonna be trouble...... Obama released his birth certificate, short form, on June 12th, 2008. So that gives the Duck less than four weeks to match or drop.
I would like to see his emails.. And let's reveal all his paid-for private speeches too.
As a retired accountant (MS Accounting&Taxation) and forty years in the field, I find it amusing to read comments about Trump's "taxes". Comments mainly from people who do not have a clue, period and think that they being experts afterall, will be able to immediately glean deceit and fraud from their "expert" review . One - Trump's personal and business tax filings are completely and totally different returns. Two - Trump's personal and business returns will have been prepared by a team of professionals, financial and legal from a large firm such as Deloitte, PWC, etc. Does anyone seriously think these firms would condone cheating and fraud? remember Arthur Anderson? A tax professor I once had said "tax avoidance is legal, tax evasion is not" If you could minimize your tax liability to lowest possible amount wouldn't you? Why shouldn't Trump or are you just hypocritical? Three - Trump's personal and business tax returns will be audited each and every year by a large case team and keep in mind the IRS left wingers have an ax to grind here. Finally, I don't care about Trump's tax situation, it's none of my business and none of yours either.
My view also Cynic. It all part of the legal tax game. Flat Tax Please.with a floor starting at a certain number. You will soon see how much people pay attention to spending, without all these special deductions.
Old Gent - Agreed, flat tax is something the populace is now paying attention to.
Cynic - Come out of retirement and help us all.
It's just a norm that candidates release their taxes. But Trump, who said he would release before the election today tells a different story and now says he won't because he agrees with you that the reason is that there is nothing to learn.
The man consistently says one thing, then another and then another. And I guess that's the reason he can't release anything earlier either.
I say choosing not to release pretty much assures there's a good reason not to which for a guy who consistently lies is saying a lot.
Face it, if there was nothing unbecoming in his taxes, then it would be a no-brainer to release.
What might we learn:
- sources of income (like speeches to wall street)
- off-shore banking like is he pulling some panama paper action
- a glimpse into his business in terms of revenues/looses paid to Trump
= is his brand really worth what he says
= are his businesses as healthy as he claims
= his charity in giving to support needy Americans
= his deductions, like does he deduct as business what you and I would call pleasure
Mostly what I expect is that we will see again that Trump lies, he conflates his worth and success. This won't matter to many but since it is the norm, I would like to know.
"THE DANGEROUS ACCEPTANCE OF DONALD TRUMP"
No where as near as dangerous as the Neocons getting us into wars we had no business being in. Thousands of US soldiers killed, Tens of Thousands injured, Trillions spent. This is the current "Par". I don't see how Trump can be anything but better...
Case in point, we all know strangergoogle thinks he's the smartest guy in the room but he's obviously been drinking the kool aid again. Trump's 1120, F1040 - 2 pages, probably has 100 to 1000 more with required schedules and underlying documents. The F1120 of the Trump companies - a PRIVATE corporation with 500+ subsidiaries
probably runs to tens of thousands of pages. Yet the strangergoogle with all his expertise, all his financial acumen, all his vast knowledge of every subject (according to him) could just take a glance and immediately determine the answer(s) to every question - need I say more. As I've said before, I really don't care for Trump personally, but he's the right guy in the right place at the right time to break the backs of the extreme left wingers bent on destroying our country and the rest of the political hacks who have no goal other than staying in power and feeding at the public teat.
While I agree with alot of what Trump said he is a snake just like Romney was all lies. His words may sound great but in the end like most Republicans it will be about keeping the 1% more wealthy. That being said our other option is a women who thinks it's the gun manufacturer fault for a person shooting someone, and releasing private emails is acceptable all the while giving our resources and money to people who do nouthing to get it. These are our options? None of them will do anything great or help us just bury our country further in debt and take away more of our rights or try to "fire" Putin and put us in ww3. We need to change the election process get rid of career politicians and stop putting filthy rich people in charge. Money corrupts everyone. And that's one place we don't need it. But it will never change so its all useless. I think it's all rigged they already know who is going to be president money will make sure of that.
The fact we won't "determine the answer(s) to every question" is intuitively obvious to the casual observer.
"Face it, if there was nothing unbecoming in his taxes, then it would be a no-brainer to release."
The fact that you don't care is obvious too. You don't even know whether Trump is really even successful or just a bag full of debt. His disclosed balance sheet hides his real debt, he reports revenue at gross levels, and a myriad of other murky math samples that you can do when you put together your own asset sheet as a PR exercise.
http://fortune.com/2016/03/23/donald-trump-debt/
Liberals have destroyed your country -- that's rich. Can you say Bush?
Since you are such a financial maven, you do remember that Trump's tax plan nets his family 2.8 Billion minimum. That's the most gluttony at the public trough that any politician has ever gone for.
That's like Trump taking 580 miles of new four-lane highway out of the public budget. Pretty good accounting on that one.
So stay blind. I would like Trump do what every other person running for President has done as common practice over the past 40 years. What's he, and you, afraid of?
As noted since it's open season on Presidential spouses, let's quote Melania: “I would be very traditional, like Betty Ford or Jackie Kennedy.”
What can I say: a picture worth a thousand humina, huminas.....
Looks like Trump has secured the magical prime number of 1237. What say you, experts?
kb2755 - I don't get your medical reference. Looking for voluminous comments from the likes of strangerdanger and JeffersonRepub, just for fun.
For DannyC on his special day when Trump nails the nomination. Speaking of things Trump nailed, there’s more Trump dump on potential first lady Melania…
- We got lots of naked photo shoots that I just can't post
- We even got racy teenage pics; she started early
- We got Dad the Communist child support shirker who looks exactly like Trump. That's right, Melania grew up Communist and married a guy that looks like Dad and is the same age.
- We got first lady-like zounds bites galore like: “We have incredible sex at least once a day” (Zounds!) Well that's important to know.
- We got a really creepy kid who looks like a blond Damien from “The Omen.” All the money in the world can’t protect against old men shouldn’t have kids genetic disorders.
Melania Trump’s father was a listed member of The League of Communists in Slovenia. It wasn’t like he had to join. Only 5% of Slovenian males did. Because of Dad’s party affiliation, Melania and family lived well above the country’s average income. Nicer house, Mercedes in the driveway, not opulent but well off compared to neighbors. Pays to be part of the establishment. Dad once charged with tax evasion. Very Trumpish. Dad is only five year’s Trump’s senior. He could be the Don’s twin. Put Dad, Don and The Barron in a line-up and it’s freaky creepy.
Melania’s Dad has a bastard son he tried to have legally aborted. Daddy has since tried to avoid child support in every court in Slovenia. He doesn’t argue legitimacy, he just doesn't want to pay. Melania doesn't even know her own half-brother. Saves on xmas cards.
Melania does know about Trump: “We know the truth. He’s not Hitler.” “He wants to help America. He wants to unite people. They think he doesn’t but he does. Even with the Muslims, it’s temporary.” Thank Allah for that. She also has said: “Maybe he needs to say it in a softer way.” Just whisper “all Mexicans are rapists.” It takes the edge off.
Melania insists “I would be very traditional, like Betty Ford or Jackie Kennedy.” I just don’t remember Betty or Jackie showing so much skin so often to make money. Melania has been taking sensuous scanty clad pics since her early teen years. There’s plenty of good stuff out there to keep us titillated for at least two terms. Much better than a dose of Bill. I don’t dare post a lot of it lest the moderators take offense at our potential future first lady. If Trump wins, just don’t ask your kids to do their school report on the first lady. At least not with pictures. Probably don’t want quotes either.
Like Jackie or Betty, Melania is understated: “I like beautiful stuff,” she conceited. “I live the life.” I smell an expensive White House makeover for sure.
Party on DannyC.
That was Trump's wife!? The one standing next to him, with the giant ta-ta's, very tight red dress? I thought it was Kaitlin Jenner.
So now it comes down to the prospective first lady or first gentleman and their patriotism. Hilarious. Thanks for the laughs.
Strangerdanger, the way you mix actual unsourced quotes (plagiarism fyi) with your feelings, innuendos, opinions, and personal quotes, makes your posts quite the hard read, and hard to differentiate between facts, feelings, and fiction. If you are going to slander/ discredit someone, at least back it up with sources....to at least protect your character (if you even care to at this point)
That's funny coming from you Darrin. How often have you posted bogus things coming from actual links that just didn't do their homework, and neither did you?
How often have you been asked to source and you have ignored the request?
How often have you caught me in a bogus quote, or fact for that matter. Sometimes, but rarely.
Sorry, but I tried to keep it short and that's what happens. Folks always ask for more info, sources, bibliographies, footnotes, and more... :>)
Why in this case? You can google any of this to discover that Melania was raised of Communist, has pandered her body for cash from an early age, and marred a guy who is her father's age and looks just like him.
You could have googled almost any of the quotes as well as the picture. Hits come up in the very first entry. Like “I would be very traditional, like Betty Ford or Jackie Kennedy.” hits http://www.warriorzen.com/if-donald-trump-president-first-lady-2.html but of course there were many other sources.
"We know the truth. He’s not Hitler.” “He wants to help America. He wants to unite people. They think he doesn’t but he does. Even with the Muslims, it’s temporary.” = http://dujour.com/news/melania-trump-interview/
"“We have incredible sex at least once a day” = http://nypost.com/2015/08/16/melania-trump-would-be-a-first-lady-for-the-ages/
“I like beautiful stuff,” “I live the life.”= http://www.townandcountrymag.com/society/politics/news/a6235/melania-on-donald-hes-not-hitler/
Probably the rest of the facts I noted were in those stories too, I did not double check them at this time. Some may have been in other accounts.
As to the opinion, yup you got me there. I have mixed facts and opinion because that's what we do here on the forum. We voice our opinion. We discuss facts and opinions with our neighbors (at least we hope they're are neighbors). I just like to explain how I feel with some facts. You should try it sometime :>) Sorry if it confused you even though you have mixed fact and opinion as well. I think I even saw some in your last post like lack of a link, mixed facts and opinions, impugned by anonymous character. But thanks for helping me protect my anonymous character. Hope that helps. (I think you should suggest "Darrin's rules of submission" to the moderators....:>)
So does all this mean you respect Melania Trump as our next first lady?
I will debate, no I won't debate, I will debate, no, I won't debate...
bwack bwack bwack!!!
pmnsk - Welcome to the internet.
Send them to Monty Python's Argument Clinic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnTmBjk-M0c
GC - Belly laughs, especially in the context of first lady qualifications. Seems like there are no discussions of important issues any more. But thanks for the humor.
Sd, i have always sourced info i have used from others, show me where i have not....
So, okay, sometimes you have found sourced info wrong....i wasent the one who wrote them, so big whoop!
That was you trying to keep it short???? Well my god, wouldent want to see you trying to make it long!
"Sd, i have always sourced info i have used from others, show me where i have not...." There are many times I have asked you for sources. Sometimes you respond, sometimes you don't. As to sourcing every quote, I will take you at your word although I often find that the self-righteous claiming 100% compliance are usually wrong --- but I take you at your word.
So what? There is no hard rule on sourcing anything here so next time just make the request in a kinder, gentler fashion. There is no need to fabricate some kind of character issue.
Of course, none of that adventure into red herring land detracts from the fact that Melania will be a unique first lady with a Communist history to boot if that comes to past.
strangerdanger - I like herring, especially pickled with cream sauce. I also like your persistent bloviating on things that don't matter.
I too am glad. Glad you have learned at least one 50-cent word that you repeat incessantly. Makes you an easy read. Also glad that the fact you like herring and I don't and that I have the freedom not to swallow it nor some of the posts you spew.
You're a big boy too so just pass over the posts you don't like. Like if you feel it's OK for Melania to be the first lady of America, well gosh bless you then, skip my passages. One man's cheap trick is another's role model.
strangerdanger - Wish I could be more of a "vulgarian". The operating phrase was "things that don't matter". Please find issues that do matter in this historic election. That would be informative, refreshing and useful. Thanks.
I am sorry that you feel a discussion of the resume for the First Lady is "vulgarian" and part of "things that don't matter".
It matters to Trump which is why I felt it was topical.
What I meant is that there are important issues that are no longer being addressed in the Trump vs. whoever campaign: terrorism, foreign policy, immigration, JOBS! Nobody talks about this any more. As for "vulgarian", I was talking about myself, and the gifted and talented vulgarian I could be if allowed to on HL.
DC: got it.
What I meant was that the important issue being discussed tween Hillary and Donald was woman's rights. Then Trump digressed. When Hillary accused Donald of not being a supporter, he felt the gloves were off to talk Bill and Bill's history from three decades ago. He leveraged Bill's transgressions into Hillary being an enabler of Bill's infidelities. That's Trump-code for she forced him to do it because she is, well, you fill in the torrid blank.
So I say the gloves are off and let's talk Melania. Boy, is there a lot to talk about, a lot to take some guilty peeks at, some very juicy quotes for our listening pleasure, and a family history that's pretty damned ugly.
IMHO, the First Lady is an elected position of high importance in America as our American Presidential spousal representative to the world. Trump has made it brutally clear that spouses are an important issue. I have only responded and, most certainly, not in kind. Otherwise I would have called her a .........
I think when Trump goes after Chelsea and I start to cover the silver-spoon club and the weirdness that is The Barron, you can rightfully complain about defocusing on the issues.
I'm still laughing after that Trump press conference. It's about time someone took the mainstream media to task.
Ollie I also think it's good Trump is calling out the press, however, in this case, the press was doing it's job as watchdog so I am not certain, beyond circus theatrics, what Don actually proved here.
Trump had not dispersed most of the money until last week as if the bad press has made him do it independent of the lame excuses made. His track record for philanthropic monetary dispersal is abysmal based on his own foundation which holds more money than it distributes.
Trump did not even put in his million that he said he would until last week apparently holding his own cash as long as he could before the Press called him out.
Trump did not raise the $6M he committed to. He has an excuse though. Those other guys let him down. Guess the master dealmaker can't get folks to honor the deal.
And in typical Trump fashion, Trump held the press conference at Trump Towers meaning he used campaign donations to pay Trump Inc. for use of the building so Trump actually personally profited on the press conference from campaign donations. Bet he gouged his donors on the price he charged himself too. He is the expert at getting good press from bad news and making money the sleazy way no matter what he does.
Many Vet groups still say Trump stinks on this so some might say "what took the press so long" to fulfill it's watchdog responsibilities.
It is fun to watch the name calling though, isn't it? Too bad we didn't have some cripples, Muslims or Mexicans to make fun of.
That press conference made me yell out loud, "YEAH, FINALLY SOMEONE WITH SOME BALL$!!" The political media is a bunch of liars who only report what fits their agenda and have been for years. FINALLY someone had the guts to ACTUALLY SAY IT ON CAMERA! Let's face it, it's what everyone has been thinking for years - both left and right - but there goes Trump again, just putting it right out there!
Yeah there's nothing like a grown man having a temper tantrum because he's being questioned about his position/lies.
"Yeah there's nothing like a grown man having a temper tantrum because he's being questioned about his position/lies."
When being unfairly "questioned"... then sure...
The media is digging into his donations. They want proof, receipts, ledgers, etc. showing where every penny went.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/31/politics/donald-trump-veterans-announcement/index.html
Yet, from that same article:
"She (Hillary) said "of course" she had contributed personally as well. But she didn't provide further details, such as how much she donated and to whom."
That's it... a little one liner at the end. Why not dig into HER claims with as much ferocity as they've tried digging into Trump's (even though many veterans groups HAVE confirmed large donations from Donald)?
@Mark - they should absolutely dig as much but as far as I can tell Hillary hasn't made the amount of contributions a BIG deal like Trump has. Just like he has made his net worth a big deal and now refuses to release his returns.
I am sorry but Trump's defense of his contribution issues being that Hillary gives less is not a great defense.
First, one of the main reasons Trump is not revealing his taxes is because they will show what an uncharitable 10 Billion dollar miser this guy really is. So if he wants to have Hillary show line-item level contributions, let him show his taxes in line item form for the charities at least.
Second, Trump's history of giving stinks although he tries to hide it with his lies: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/a-portrait-of-trump-the-donor-free-rounds-of-golf-but-no-personal-cash/2016/04/10/373b9b92-fb40-11e5-9140-e61d062438bb_story.html
http://newsexaminer.net/politics/donald-trump-the-least-charitable-billionaire/
His own charity foundation has more cash on hand than it has given away. His last contribution to his own foundation was in 2008. I guess his philanthropy has not recovered from the recession until it was politically expedient to give a little to the vets.
So sure, dig into Hillary's contributions; her level of charitable giving is about 11% of her income. What's Don's?
Sure, 50% of what they give goes to the Clinton Foundation. The Clinton Foundation puts 89% of it's funds into charity. Industry average is 75%. What's the percentages for the Trump Foundation. Good luck finding an answer. For the Trump Foundation, you'd be lucky to find them giving any money to charity. They seem to like to save it for a rainy day.
http://www.factcheck.org/2015/06/where-does-clinton-foundation-money-go/
While we're digging, let's get Hillary to share her private speeches to Goldman Sachs and others. Right when the Don shows his. Can't wait to see what HE has said when privately paid. Especially when he has been paid $1.5M to hear him speak ---- that's got to be some good insults. One point five million dollars worth. One speech. Wonder if he gave any to charity?
I'd only wished the media spent as much time scrutinizing Obama as the have Trump. And I include the rightwing media as well.
The Clinton Foundation has plenty of baggage and shady dealings associated with it, I guess you missed reading those stories,
Infantile temper tantrums and childish mockery, how very presidential. I guess we should expect more of the same as this goes along and he becomes more closely scrutinized instead of being treated as an entertainer as he has for much of this process.
"The Clinton Foundation has plenty of baggage and shady dealings associated with it, I guess you missed reading those stories" You can say that about almost anything Clinton. Nothing has stuck to date except allegation and innuendo. I have avoided that same argument against the Trump Foundation or the Don's latest lies about the Vet fund or the delays in disbursing the contributions.
What I had shown above was basically the numbers which show that, to date, Trump has been a miserly philanthropist, the Clintons have been active philanthropists. Donald works for Donald; Bill works for the underprivileged. Don gets rich, Bill does not go poor.
The Don exaggerated, to be kind, how much was raised for the Vets and withheld distributions until the press basically outed him.
Historically the Clintons have given a respectable portion of their income away. Trump refuses to be transparent in this regard. The Clinton Foundation books are open; what we know about the Trump Foundation is in dribs and drabs and details a charitable foundation that holds more money than it gives away. The Clintons do give a good portion of their charity through their Foundation (eat their own dog food): the last time the Don funded his own foundation was 2008.
There is a difference by the numbers and by the level of transparency.
What's presidential? Running end games around congress and ignoring the constitution? Taking selfies at funerals?
So now we are to judge people based on how much money they give away???? Who are we to tell someone, or to judge someone for giving away or keeping their money, and what does that even have to do with the presidential race?
Maybe if America would stop giving away money it doesn't even have to give away, we could actually start working on our debt issue!
Uh, this is charity Darrin, not state-funded foreign aid so not sure your point merging the two.
There's no now about it when it comes to judging folks based on charitable giving. In days of old, people would tithe to the Church and, indeed charity was a public manner that people were judged by man and God combined.
Today, it's a time honored tradition to view the tax returns of Presidential candidates and amounts given to charity are just part of that. For Billionaires, most have their philanthropy under review, it's the price of fame.
We, as Americans, have always judged our Presidents by a number of factors, including character. Charity is part of that.
From 2003 through 2014, 99% of their charitable donations went to their Fondation. Most of the remaining 1% went to Clinton associated charities. I would say that is more than a good portion, more like the whole pie. Not bad for somone who cried about being poor when they left the White House.
Hmm, Trump supporters attacked by violent protesters?? Yet Trump is the one who is condoning violence.....
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/2016/06/02/trump-san-jose-rally-protesters/32639803/
It's pretty ironic people who do not support Trump got violent while holding signs stating make america hate again.
Ironic? Stupid, unfortunate and illegal is more like it. There was violence taken or baited from both sides but probably those against Trump rule the day. Unlike Trump, both Democratic candidates condemned it quickly.
"The Clinton's love charity as long as they are on the receiving end of it." Pretty ballsy to say this on a Trump site given the HUGE receiving end he's been on: bankruptcy bailouts, tax loopholes, and probably being the only Presidential candidate in history to turn a profit from the suckers.
"From 2003 through 2014, 99% of their charitable donations went to their Fondation." Kind of true, kind of not, mostly misleading. First, this is The Clinton Family Foundation, not The Clinton Foundation that Bill runs. The Clinton Family Foundation is a charity clearinghouse where the only donors are the Clintons. So, of course, that's where their charity dollars go. In 2014, only 50% went to The Clinton Foundation, a much smaller number. Not that any of that matters.
What matters is the Clintons donate 10.8% to charity whereas the Don choses not to disclose. I think we all know why he does not disclose based on the record for The Donald Trump Foundation. Bill's foundation, The Clinton Foundation gives about 89% to charity versus overheard, that's above the industry average. The Clinton Family Foundation is a clearinghouse, presumably most of the money passes through.
The Trump Foundation basically holds more money than it gives out. The money it got is mostly from Trump advertising for others; Trump no longer donated to his own foundation. Once we see his tax records, we'll no doubt find out he donated to no one. Public interest is not exactly his forte. Smoke are mirrors are. The money The Trump Foundation distributes mostly profits Trump directly. Not illegal but not exactly the best philanthropic model. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/a-portrait-of-trump-the-donor-free-rounds-of-golf-but-no-personal-cash/2016/04/10/373b9b92-fb40-11e5-9140-e61d062438bb_story.html
Trump has not released administration costs for The Trump Foundation; it's private of course so good luck. He's actually probably pretty good on the costs. It's just that his foundation does not really give to charity, if it gives at all.
Strangerdanger - When it comes to charities you don't really have to guess all that much. Just go to the public records for IRS 990 Forms because. Clinton's charity definitely isn't a simple pass through, they do a lot of direct services including internationally. That's why it looked like the Trump camp thought they could say the Clinton Foundation was sitting on $, because they don't see it in the grants going out. But there are a lot of direct employees providing services according to the filings.
Trump's foundation is the one that's all pass through. They get in $1000, they give $1000 to charities of their choosing. It's a far smaller operation, Trump is president, 3 kids are directors, and their lawyer is the treasurer. No employees, no salaries, the expenditures are all give aways, just get the money and donate it. But get it from others, not the Trumps themselves. Their customers seem to be the big donators, NBC and WWF in particular. It's similar to the recent vets event - get others to donate, then turn around and say you give out lots of $ to charity.
GC - So it sounds like Trump's foundation is a lot more straightforward. He draws in donations using his name/image/popularity (donations which might otherwise not occur without that notoriety) and then disperses them to various organizations.
Why do the Clinton's funnel their personal donations through their own organization? If I want to donate to Red Cross (for example) I write a check to the Red Cross. I don't give a check to Mark's Foundation, skim some administrative costs, and then have them write a check to the Red Cross... to a layperson that almost sounds like laundering.
GC, you have to study this stuff and even then I am not sure all the data is available.
First, I think you are referring to The Clinton Foundation which is Bill's baby. Proper name is now Bill, Hillary & Chelsea Clinton Foundation since 2013. It's public which is why you can see it and the gifting rate is about 89%, above industry average as I said. Because of how they do things, like the direct services you noted, the books can get "interesting."
But that's the wrong foundation. The foundation they give 99% of their donations to is The Clinton Family Foundation which is the clearinghouse where the pass-though occurs to a variety of charities including to The Bill, Hillary & Chelsea Clinton Foundation of which 50% of their denotations ended up in 2014.
Transparency is not their forte
Trump's is private and the details are only available in dribs and drabs especially since he lies. I would agree that it looks like administration costs are low. But pass though ---- you gots to be kidding. Of their choosing, oh come on. It's Don's deal of the day. Read the WP piece. The money passes through right into Trump's pockets with more quid pro quos than Carter has pills. Read the financial shenanigans including why the donators donate. Plus, Trump has given squat to his own foundation since 2008. Plus, the foundation sits on a pile of cash until Trump can find a good deal with quid pro quo. Read it. And then send me the link for the 990. Love to see it.
He can't spell transparency.
So you got the Clintons giving about 11% to charity through The Clinton Family Foundation which donates about 50% of that to the Bill, Hillary & Chelsea Clinton Foundation which has an 89% giving rate which is about the national average.
Then you got Trump who gives about who-the-hell-knows to charity and runs The Trump Foundation which probably has a really good giving rate but sits on all of its cash and conducts many "donating" and "giving" exercises that profit Trump's personal bottom line directly. The last time Trump gave to his own foundation was 2008.
I think that's what we know.
Pretty ballsy SD? Sorry, maybe my name confused you, but I don't have a set. But I still believe the Clinton's dealing are a little shady to say the least. So bottom line I'm voting Trump. No need to reply. I'm signing off this post. No one is going to change anyone's mind and it's gotten a little tiresome.
Well, not that it matters one way or the other but I'm so sick and tired of everyone behaving so selfishly that all I want to do is upset the apple cart and scream at everyone to look in the mirror. And I do mean everyone, not just the politicians (all of whom lie without any reservation, as do the majority of us peons). When every single subject revolves around nothing but imposing control over those who disagree with you, and there's narry a reference about "do no harm" in our laws (rather, all laws seek pre-cognitive control these days-on the assumption that everyone must be up to no good-then it's time to just let it all go to hell so it can be rebuilt when the pain of what passes as logical thought today becomes glaringly apparent. The concept of innocent until proven guilty is completely gone when all modern laws are implemented on the assumption of guilt and seek to prevent any possible negative human interaction in order to "prevent" even the most benign (the proposed transportation of firearms limitations comes immediately to mind). When statistically irrelevant events are treated as life and death situations, and we all turn off our brains and say YES, I do beleive that collectively we are pretty much toast.
If that means voting for trump then so be it, I really don't give a rats behind any more. Selfish sob's we are. Every last one of us if we support most of the nonsense that passes as legislation these days. Pushing us closer to the cliff means we can rebuild sooner.
justintime secret service is about to dump the inside story on Hillary and Bill Clinton:
from Drudge:.
Former Secret Service officer Gary Byrne reveals what he observed of Hillary Clinton's character and the culture inside the White House while protecting the First Family.
The secret project is causing deep concern inside of Clinton's campaign, sources tell the DRUDGE REPORT.
"What I saw in the 1990s sickened me," Byrne explains.
Well ain't that a surprise BD? Looking forward to reading that story for sure. I think the dems already handed the election to trump due to the rioting thug leftists. Burning American flags while waving Mexican flags and attacking innocent supporters. This will only energize anyone on the fence to get the hell out and vote vote for Trump.
"Burning American flags while waving Mexican flags and attacking innocent supporters."
agreed, they are actually driving votes and support to trump, and by doing this, they are losing the election for the democrats, and that's a very good thing.
Yes, the good thing about Trump is Bill's life a few decades ago.
Don't worry that Trump's wife was a Communist. Don't worry about nekid First Lady pictures. It's all OK because there's Bill a few decades ago.
And in today's Trump news, some quotes:
"Oh, look at my African-American over here. Look at him," Trump said. "Are you the greatest?" http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/03/politics/donald-trump-african-american/
"“The judge, who happens to be, we believe, Mexican, which is great, I think that’s fine.” In an interview with The Wall Street Journal, Trump went on to say that Curiel’s “Mexican heritage”—he was born in Indiana—should disqualify him because “I’m building a wall. It’s an inherent conflict of interest.” http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/06/the-problem-with-calling-out-judges-for-their-race/485732/
But Paul Ryan has endorsed Trump responded: "Ryan reacted said during a radio interview Friday that the reality TV personality’s comments were “out of left field.”
“It’s reasoning I don’t relate to. I completely disagree with the thinking behind that,” Ryan said. “And so, he clearly says and does things I don’t agree with, and I’ve had to speak up on time to time when that has occurred, and I’ll continue to do that if it’s necessary. I hope it’s not.” http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/paul-ryan-donald-trump_us_5752dde5e4b0c3752dcdc7e3
The Don also said Muslim judges would be unfair too. I think he's calling for the goosestep litmus test for judges.
"Gary Byrne reveals what he observed of Hillary Clinton's character and the culture inside the White House while protecting the First Family.
The secret project is causing deep concern inside of Clinton's campaign, sources tell"
it's about Hillary's character, Hillary the wilde-beast shrew of politics, will make an awful president, she is angry, vengeful, vindictive and power hungry,
Not to mention she is downright annoying when she talks. She's a screeching monotone (didn't even know it was possible) and doesn't actually talk to the people, she instructs them. That alone disqualifies her. Could probably blame her totally authentic teleprompters that talk for her everywhere she goes.
Sanders hits Clinton Foundation over foreign donations
Democratic presidential hopeful Bernie Sanders criticized the Clinton Foundation for accepting donations from foreign governments in an interview aired Sunday, calling it a conflict of interest.
"Do I have a problem when a sitting secretary of State and a foundation run by her husband collects many, many dollars from foreign governments — governments which are dictatorships?
"Yeah, I do have a problem with that. Yeah, I do," Sanders said on CNN's "State of the Union."
When host Jake Tapper asked if he thought it was a conflict of interest, Sanders said, "I do."
http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/282261-sanders-clinton-foundation-engaged-in-conflicts-of
Great article
http://www.npr.org/2016/06/04/480460947/trump-self-proclaimed-outsider-was-new-jersey-political-insider
hillary involved in many conflicts of interest while she was secretary of state says bernie sanders,
bill clinton ran the foundation that got millions in foreign donations from countries that were being negotiated with by Hillary while she was secretary of state;
conflict of interest and unethical to use her office of secretary of state to influence foreign governments to give donations to the Clinton foundation. what a racket, wow!
Hello! anybody in there? wake up! she's as dirty as yesterday's dish towel, vote bernie on tuesday and send her home
Got any sources BDog?
Meanwhile keep supporting your racist son of a racist who wants the blood test for Mexican and Muslim heritage because these Americans can judge Trump fairly.
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/trump-racist-morning-joe-223927
Sure, Republicans are starting to walk their endorsements back. Bump, bump, bump, another one dumps on Trump.....
Mark Kirk dropped him. Scott Walker is backing off.
Longer list of condemnation Republicans.
Meanwhile Universitygate keeps getting worse:
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trumpuniversity-idUSKCN0YT2M2
http://www.newyorker.com/news/john-cassidy/trump-university-its-worse-than-you-think
The fact that Donald Trump says "he had been intimately involved in how the product was promoted, he had had little to do with deciding its ingredients and, despite the marketing claims, had been “completely absent” from the company bearing his name that produced and sold it."
So if Trump University was selling Trump's secrets to success but Trump says he had zero input to ingredients, hiring or operation, what was he selling? Sounds like the con man is trying to have it both ways.
http://time.com/4101290/what-the-legal-battle-over-trump-university-reveals-about-its-founder/
Who's the criminal con man now?
Trump is imploding...I love it, especially when he does his "Mussolini" stance. It's the "Hitler" mentality that's really scary.
People just love drama and reality shows. America should be neither. A politician should behave with a little dignity, not a spoiled trust fund baby. Trump's just a brat. The "Trump university" thing is hysterical. How would that look on my resume? LoL..
"Sure, Republicans are starting to walk their endorsements back. Bump, bump, bump, another one dumps on Trump..."
I guess you don't understand, It's the people who will decide not the politicians. The people are fed up with them, you can relate to that right?
Exactly, The Man. I could care what the spineless Republican's think. I believe it was a record turnout of GOP voters yesterday.
You mean the same people who selected these leaders amd the obstructionist tea party?
But you are right in Trump securing the anti-establishment vote. Just a little weak in any other area of diversity.
Arnold voted for Kasich.
Matter of fact, Trump un-candidates who already quit took double-digits in most gop races last night. That's a pretty good message of disgust.
Wait to the Clinton's Universitygate gets some play in the press. Or maybe it won't which wouldn't surprise me.
Bernie is still actively in the race as of tonight and had a slight mathamatical chance as of tuesday's vote.
Perhaps DC primary would prove your point.
sparks..you're reading too much 'fake' liberal blogs...Trump is up against the whole Obama Administration/ the CORRUPT AND POWERFUL CLINTON DYNASTY and the Progressive GOPe who along with our Media has been bought and paid for to 'overthrow' our American way of Life by Dr Dvil of the World himself George Soros! BUT The PEOPLE are FINALLY AWAKE!!
http://www.frugal-cafe.com/public_html/frugal-blog/frugal-cafe-blogzone/2010/09/07/profile-of-a-liberal-sociopath-billionaire-george-soros-helped-nazis-murder-steal-from-jews-feels-no-remorse-or-guilt/
thahttp://www.breitbart.com/2016-presidential-race/2016/06/07/report-trump-university-judge-linked-group-calls-boycott-trumps-businesses/
TRUMP GAVE THE BEST SPEECH EVER~>
https://themarshallreport.wordpress.com/2016/06/08/trump-gave-the-best-victory-speech-ever/
LOOK FOR HIS ANTI CLINTON SPEECH' ON MONDAY!
Still talking about the "show" I see.
His ridiculous this all is in the grand scheme of things, watching this freak show without stepping back to consider what it takes for it to even happen: a breakdown of morals that's turned into a society-wide grab for the spoils of government theft by taxation. Sickening.
SD, you are delusional if you think Benie is going to win the nomination. Believe me, I wish he would.
Not even close to what I said Ollie.
Speaking of exaggerations, sha44ss blames "sparks..you're reading too much 'fake' liberal blogs" leading to her ascertain that "Soros betrayed other Jews and helped steal their property and send them to their tragic deaths to spare himself."
Of course her tin foil hat stopped her from taking the mere minutes to discover:
http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=43876
or the apology from the originator of the story:
http://mediamatters.org/research/2010/09/20/toronto-sun-corrects-soros-nazi-smear/170877
And yet she has no problem supporting the Scotch-German heritage racist son of a racist who married a woman raised as a communist and still, today, uses the Presidential nominee pulpit to say, as the Republican nominee to the Presidency, that Mexican judges are out to get him in a personal civil case because he is building a wall that Mexico will pay for. This was stated against an American judge of Mexican heritage who has been under death threats from the Mexican cartels and who was born in Indiana. Most people would call that man --- hero.
Sure, maybe it was a mistake, just one of those things, or was it......
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-racist-examples_us_56d47177e4b03260bf777e83
Of course, under the guise of not being politically correct, Trump has issued many offensive quotes. This is not better than being too politically correct, this is just plain not being presidential and being totally in poor taste and wrong.
http://presidential-candidates.insidegov.com/stories/5187/23-ridiculously-offensive-donald-trump-quotes
It's funny (more like sad) that they both have their scandals, and certain people can just look beyond these while bashing the other side, and trying to make one side look worse then the other. Meanwhile, their choice isn't any better.
http://townhall.com/tipsheet/connorhoffman/2016/06/09/the-two-evils-america-is-stuck-with-n2176194
And even that Story is Skewed Darrin!
THERE IS NO TRUTH ANYMORE!
BOTH THE LEFT AND THE RIGHT ARE AGAINST TRUMP!
Trumps Ego and Outspokeness and 'mistakes' he made in **Business is NOTHING compared to the the Ruthless Ambitions and Inhumane tactics of the Clintons! The World is on Fire because of them..hundreds of thousands of men women and children in the mideast and our own Sons and Daughters in the Military have died because of them!
They have LIED CHEATED AND KILLED AMERICANS TO SELL AMERICA TO OUR ENEMIES TO GET WHERE THEY ARE and they care NOTHING about the AMERICAN PEOPLE!
From our Gov't to our Churches Our 'Shephards' have opened the Gates to the Wolves!
Trump is the only one that has a chance to CLOSE The Gates!
Uuuggg....forget it. Reality show mentality is hard to break. The only gate Trump wants to close is the ones on his mansions. Sha....a lot of people have amnesia, regarding Reagan and Dubya. They are the ones you're talking about. Junior opened a bee's nest in Iraq, against the recommendations from the U.N. and his own Dad. He created ISIS, when his war took away many homes and jobs, from the Iraqi's.
Bill was concentrating on getting Osama bin Laden, and the terrorists in Afghanistan. Bush just ignored all the warnings, and concentrated on his golfing. His answer to terrorist warnings, while Bill was trying to warn him, was "Watch this drive " and golfed into the Gulf, but the wrong country and for the wrong reasons. He shut down the airports, and flew all the bin Ladens out of here, immediately, before they could be interrogated. He wanted to get control of their oil fields, which just burned away, along with the Iraqi government... that created ISIS.
My goodness when it comes to body count, the Clintons pale in comparison to their Conservative counterparts.
I do think Hillary is more hawkish than I would like possibly because she needs to appear more tough than a guy. Shouldn't be that way but that's life.
Trump on the other hand is a lunatic who already inspires jihad, defeats purposeful work with our allies, draws lines in the sand based on bravado and not brains, and has already queued up wars on a world-wide level.
Proposed enhanced interrogation techniques including waterboarding and way beyond.
Hunting down and killing terrorist families and relatives.
Open to letting South Korea and Japan have nuclear arms
The list goes on but this does not look like a saving lives program.
Oh yeah, I forgot my favorite piece of Trump war lunacy. He was to take the oil to pay for the war against ISIS. So how does that work?
ISIS has no country so we go to war to obliterate them, their families, their relatives and anyone in the vicinity.
Then we steal Syrian and maybe Iraqi oil to pay for the war basically stealing something from someone we were not fighting with.
Well that's all American Trumpism for you. Sure to curry favor across the world.
Your posts on this topic crack me up SD
"I do think Hillary is more hawkish than I would like possibly because she needs to appear more tough than a guy. Shouldn't be that way but that's life"
Yup, just turn the blinders on to your savior Hilary and list of stuff she has done and keep trying to exploit Trump to your fullest extent to make your lady look better.....I get it
If I was exploiting Trump, I would have some extra cash. Sadly I do not.
If Trump's proposals on war crack you up, I find that sad. I believe more of our kids will die under Trump than under Clinton and not for good purpose.
SD, I said your posts crack me up.....not "Trump's proposals on war crack you up"
Not sure what you did not find clear about that
You know what strangergoogle? despite all your vitriolic twaddle, my vote is going to cancel out yours and Darrins will put Trump up by one. So there. And by the way, as I've said before, I don't like Trump but I despise her.
More kids will die SD? Trump criticized the Bush war machine which caused a lot of death and misery among OUR population for a war that Israel wanted, not us.
My vote goes to the one who will call a spade a spade. People are tired of the "normal" which is just plain manipulation. Do you like to be manipulated, then just vote for a typical mainstream candidate...
CYNIC:4U > A VERY GOOD READ
HONESTLY, WHY WOULD ANYONE VOTE FOR TRUMP?
Donald J. Trump - Breitbart Red State Newsmax Drudge Report
A few days ago someone I don't know asked this question on ... Facebook and a mutual friend (knowing I am a Trump supporter), tagged me and asked me to answer the question. Here was my reply:
I am a Trump supporter for several reasons. I believe that our country is at a critical tipping point and we don't have another presidential term to figure this out.
Health care costs are out of control, our labor participation rate is at a 50 year low, we have no borders, jobs are leaving by the thousands, the debt service on our national debt is nearing a point we cannot pay it.
The average person hasn't had an increase in pay in 12 years. Over half the black men in our country are out of work. We are more divided than I can ever remember and I'm over 60 years old. We are at the brink of losing our country.
On top of that we spend money we don't have fighting wars we shouldn't be in, and cannot win. We pay over a hundred other countries billions of dollars a year and our military are the policemen for the world. We must fix this mess ASAP.
Now, before I give you my reasons, I need to share my perspective. I am an evangelical Christian but I don't believe it is the role of government to legislate morality. I am a service connected disabled veteran having served in the US Army as a paratrooper.
I started my second career as an auto mechanic and worked my way up to owning 12 auto repair franchises. I then sold them and began a new career in real estate, building my own company to over 150 agents.
Then in 2003 I invented a technology that put me on CNN and I began selling that software to real estate agents internationally. I've written 14 books, thousands of trade articles and have trained over 1,000,000 real estate agents in specific professional skills.
I've employed over a thousand people during that time, and until a month ago have been a registered democrat. Okay, now that you know where I'm coming from, here are my reasons:
First, his resume. Of everyone running for president, Trump is the only one who has ever employed anyone. He is the only one who has any experience in international trade. He is the only one who understands the impact of our tax laws and government regulation on companies and jobs.
Trump has made a fortune turning around failed companies. He's worked complicated deals all over the world, negotiating with governments, labor unions, and international financiers. These skills are not learned overnight and we don't have time for another life-long politician and attorney to get up to speed.
Second is his character. He is tough as nails. His children are pretty awesome. You can tell a lot about somebody by their kids. He is brutally honest as opposed to being politically correct. His employees and his ex-employees have nothing but praise for him. Even his ex-wives have nothing bad to say about him. Check it out.
cont'd next post:
Third is his success. He has built hundreds of successful businesses. One of his companies declared bankruptcy (chapter 11 or reorganization) four separate times before ultimately saving the company. All creditors were paid and jobs were saved. Bottom line is he is just a very good businessman.
Fourth is that he is a great negotiator. In fact, he wrote the book on negotiation -- The Art of the Deal, an international best-seller. If we are to save this country we need someone who can work with people of differing opinions. Congress is grid locked. We need to work new trade agreements with other nations. We need to renegotiate treaties.
Fifth, Trump is a nationalist and not a globalist. He believes that our country comes first. We need to enforce our borders and the rule of law. He believes it is not our job to defend the whole world. He believes that if we do help countries with their defense, we should be paid for it.
Sixth, he has great instincts. He predicted the rise of Osama bin Laden. He predicted a terror attack on a major US city. He opposed the war in Iraq although every other candidate but Bernie Sanders was in favor of the war. He opposed it because it would destabilize the middle east. He got out of the gaming industry before it crashed. Great instincts.
Seventh, he is a natural leader. Even those who don't like him are following his lead. He has single-handedly set the agenda for this election cycle. He is respected internationally as well as in our nation. He oozes leadership.
Eighth, he is a great communicator and persuader. He is a master at using the media to advance his narrative. He totally understands the media. He built the most successful reality show in the history of television. These are skills he will need if he is to turn this country around.
Ninth, I have studied him. I read his first book in 1987 and realized he was a brilliant businessman. I've watched hundreds of hours of speeches, media interviews, read thousands of articles about him, several of his books, and studied his successes and his failures. He is the real deal. I challenge anyone to study him and not support him.
Finally, I have to look at what motivates him. Most politicians are motivated by money and/or power. Trump already has both. He has a history of being a patriot, from his military high school, to now. He has a huge ego, like every other candidate running. The difference is he is honest about his.
I think he sees our nation at a critical place and he knows that he has the unique skill set to fix the problems. If he does, he will go down in history as being one of the greatest presidents ever.
If you understand him, you know that his legacy is important to him (his name on all his buildings and companies). I even believe he is funding his own campaign so he won't owe favors or loyalties to special interests. When you evaluate his motivations you can't help but admire him.
I remembered one more reason. Everyone is about to blow a gasket over him. The establishment republican party hates him and has actually been actively trying to take down their own front runner. The establishment democrat party hates him because they know he will crush Hillary in the election, and the establishment media hates him because he totally controls the news cycle and they cannot control him. Even the donor class hates him because he cannot be bought. If all these people who I cannot stand hate him, that only makes me love him more.
You know who loves him? The regular people in this country. The ones who work their asses off every day and haven't had a pay raise in over a decade. The ones who pay the taxes and watch as their jobs get shipped overseas or across the border. The ones who see their property values going down because corrupt Big Banking blew up the housing market. The ones whose retirement is in jeopardy because social security has been raided and their 401Ks have been decimated by corrupt Wall Street.
So, again... these are my reasons. Today's primary election is probably the most important election in your lifetime. This is not an exaggeration. If you agree with me on any of these reasons, please get out and vote and together we can Make America Great Again!
Think about this: We've had politicians running our country for way too many years and look at the results. Isn't it time we give a business person the opportunity to show the way a country should be run.....like a business, because that's what our country is!
--
Fred L Anderson
sha should read the Onion:
TAMPA, FL—Saying they had been so swept up in the excitement of the moment that they hadn’t been paying attention to what they were shouting, the crowd at a Donald Trump rally in Tampa reportedly came to the realization Wednesday that they had been chanting the phrase “We are frightened and helpless” for the past half hour. “Looking back on it now, I guess we all started chanting ‘We’re so, so scared’ as soon as we got into the auditorium, and then when Trump came out onstage, it really picked up and we added the part about feeling completely impotent in the face of change,” said Trump supporter Colby Swanson, 45, who explained that, after thinking back, some attendees had started chanting “Rage is my only outlet” on and off while they were waiting in line to enter the event. “Boy, we were chanting it really loud for a while, especially after Trump said our country doesn’t win anymore and that we shouldn’t let Muslim refugees into the U.S. Come to think of it, towards the end there, I remember just yelling ‘The world has passed me by’ over and over again.” After recognizing their embarrassing blunder, the Trump supporters were said to have collected themselves and returned to their traditional chant of “Build the wall.”
Yankeefan Run the country like a business? By a man who's business plan has included four different bankruptcies????
How about we find a businessperson who DIDN'T have to declare multiple business failures?
Coffee keyboard spew alert!
"My vote goes to the one who will call a spade a spade." And a lot worse no doubt :>)
He has "a great relationship with the blacks,"
"Trump criticized the Bush war machine which caused a lot of death and misery among OUR population for a war that Israel wanted, not us." A little revisionist history here I presume. First, we voted for that way, including liberals. Bush lied, we all made mistakes in the aftermath of 9/11 and we took our eyes off the ball that was Muslim extremist terrorism. Trump included. "Stern asked Trump directly if he supported going to war with Iraq, and Trump hesitantly responded, “Yeah, I guess so.” He did change his mind early but if was a financial decision designed to line his pockets with gold. http://www.factcheck.org/2016/02/donald-trump-and-the-iraq-war/
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/02/donald-trump-says-he-was-against-the-iraq-war-thats-not-how-i-remember-it/462804/
"People are tired of the "normal" which is just plain manipulation. Do you like to be manipulated, then just vote for a typical mainstream candidate..."
Two spews for the price on one! Somehow thinking that Trump is not the master of all master manipulators seems to prove the point. That's the triumph of the master con; that the mark disavows it even happened. The list of folks feeling manipulated by Trump is endless. Start with Trump U. payers, I mean students, out to the vast number of contractors Trump didn't pay but offered future contracts to.
OK, let's be honest. Aren't we all manipulators? Don't we even attempt to manipulate or avoid being manipulated by our closest relations at some non-evil level?
But Trump is a con man, he makes his money by creating value out of thin air. He is the self-proclaimed master of the deal. He is a winner. Those who compete with him or differ are losers while competing and valiant when vanquished. What is Trump Water --- value or con?
His main manipulation is fear. Let's face it, whether you're selling product or the Presidency, fear is the greatest motivator and therefore manipulator on the face of the planet. Donald Trump fans the fear fires like no other. Other Trump tricks:
http://highexistence.com/12-psychological-tactics-donald-trump-uses-to-manipulate-the-masses/
The best part is Trump has proved your point, in a weird way, of how the media is biased, this time through manipulation.
http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/why-trumps-manipulation-media-matters
And yes, you can cite similar things for Hillary although her fear usually does not come at the cost of certain demographic downtrodden. And yes, I am sure we can blame each other of some of these things at some times as well. Psyche 101.
I agree that Trump is not the "ideal" businessperson, but if you think about it very few ever make a lot of money without screwing people -- this is capitalism.
Unfortunately, insulation from deals that go bad are needed, otherwise nobody will engage in risky projects if their personal wealth would be in jeopardy. This is just a fact, think about it. Trump is all about construction projects and real estate, these deals can go bad; this is not a family run furniture business in North Carolina.
Again, it is all about voting for a candidate that is refreshing and not 100% fake like Hilary. Someone that gets 500k to speak in front of Goldman Sachs for an afternoon is... fake.
WOW sha44ss. These people do not know what free markets are. It has Sucess and failures. Simple as that. Two of the companies I worked for, failed.and they were big ones.
"I agree that Trump is not the "ideal" businessperson, but if you think about it very few ever make a lot of money without screwing people -- this is capitalism." Hard to disagree with this but I think the difference is that, over time, Trump's contribution to society is plastering his name over other people's good without much quality control. So clothes from China, Mexico and worse. Trump water, steaks and other crud which may be good, may just be trying to leverage the name.
"I like thinking big," Donald Trump
The beginning for Trump was a huge silver spoon. Not only $1M in seed money, but his first deal was a $70 million loan funded by a co-signed bank deal arranged by Dad with Dad's friends and with Dad signing a project completion clause in case the Don stumbled. The real question is: given that pile of cash, difficult to see where a complete failure is possible. By the time Atlantic City rolled around Trump was putting in more cash and racking up personal liabilities --- a business 101 no no rule that Trump broke. His first bankruptcy was personal, he had almost $1B in personal assets at risk and it cost him his yacht, airline, and 50% of the casino. Trump learned from that and never put personal assets at risk again plus he moved away from development and operations management and into "branding" based on the Trump name which is currently valued, by Trump and no one else, at $3B of his $10B worth. He is not really about construction and real estate any more.
In the end, his businesses were often funded with junk bonds, thousands were let go, thousands of investors got pennies on their dollar, many small time contractors just didn't get paid. This last part is important since Don's friends, the big time investors and mafia contractors, got their dollars back. Only the little guys got screwed, those farther down the Trump trickle down ladder.
"Smith saw about $91,000 evaporate from his retirement account when his investment in Trump bonds soured." http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/news/donald-trump-in-atlantic-city-jackpot-or-crackpot/article_7ae16c2c-3d14-11e5-aa3b-5b415c6c45e9.html
" had the good sense — and I've gotten a lot of credit in the financial pages … I left Atlantic City before it totally cratered,"
Sure, insulation against bankruptcy is needed; it's supposed to protect creditors and workers as well. And all those losing investments and payments can take deductions as well. Still does not satisfy the pain that Trump just does not feel. He has not risked his own money in decades, he walks away financially intact every time. He left without being cratered like those he left behind.
Now here's the big news. Trump claims thousands of bankruptcies each year, they happen all the time. Wrong..... Trump's MAJOR US COMPANY filed for bankruptcy more than any other major US company in 30 years.
"fewer than 20% of public companies with assets of $1 billion or more have filed for bankruptcy in the last 30 years, according to data from Bankruptcy.com and S&P Capital IQ." http://money.cnn.com/2015/08/31/news/companies/donald-trump-bankruptcy/
I believe that makes Trump --- the biggest loser.
And lastly: "not 100% fake like Hilary. Someone that gets 500k to speak in front of Goldman Sachs for an afternoon is... fake." How about Trump. “The Donald earned a staggering $1.5 million per speech at The Learning Annex’s ‘real estate wealth expos’ in 2006 and 2007,” according to Forbes. “Trump appeared at 17 seminars and collected this fee for each one.” http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/washingtons-highest-lowest-speaking-fees/story?id=24551590#1
Coming full circle, the Trumpster sues Trump Casino to remove his name. It appears it's making Trump Water look bad......
SD All the leftist hatchett jobs are not going to stop Trump~!...and Hillary is going to Prison!
Americans are sick to death of what * Liberals have done to this Country!!
His Speech at the Faith and Freedom Coalition was Amazing including live (Entertainment by 'Code Pink Protestors')
Check it Out!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8Q65kszkCk
Sad but true, the latest terror attack is more fuel for Trump. Clinton can't even say what these attackers are.
Yes, Trump has gotten money for speaking, bur at least it is not a majority of his income; like it is for Bill and Hillary Clinton. For example, yes Trump has done Wendy's commercials but it is not a lot of money to him but if Hillary did it then she would "owe" something to them.
At the end if the day, it is whether "Quid pro quo" exists. Trump has done it for his business dealings but has been clear that was business. Hillary does it all of the time and makes no differentiation SD...
"Clinton can't even say what these attackers are."
That's OK. The FBI did... now they have released his name. It appears the religion of peace has struck again.
...and Bernie Sanders has already called for more gun control. Nevermind that this occurred in a statutory gun free zone (assuming the nightclub served alcohol).
"Clinton can't even say what these attackers are." +1 to that mark,
Hillary being unable to string the words "Islamic Terror Attack" together will lose her this election,
Uh oh, Clinton has a 12 point poll lead over Trump.
Double down or pivot center?
Poor Trump got himself deposed ........(ha-ha)
https://www.yahoo.com/news/back-to-court-for-trump-now-in-his-suit-against-chef-zakarian-173052254.html
so worth listening - please give it a chance: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/06/13/watch-ken-burns-anti-trump-speech-at-stanford.html
I love ya, I support ya, you're fired!
My kids made me do it.
I am not a liar.
The good news is I am funding my own campaign.
The great news is I am rich.
The bad news is we're broke.
Toto, I've a feeling we're not in primaries anymore........
Wow. Loses a campaign manager and the campaign is nearly broke. Looks like this is the week the Trump Train officially derailed. Yay!
Today Ben Carson said Evangelicals like Trump because he will fight for religious freedom.
American Muslims across the country cheered.
Great quote, don't have the source...
"Trump has written several books on successfully running a business. Unfortunately, they all end in Chapter 11."
Trump's campaign chest may be broke, but he spent $6 million of it enriching himself
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/9f7412236962464f9f2c0a8d2696ba25/trumps-campaign-cycles-6-million-trump-companies
scared Trump gave a great speech today about crooked Hillary. Finally someone calling her out on all her and Bill's shady deals.
Now you've really done it Ollie.....
Just tip of the iceberg on Trump lies which apparently he has a 4 to 1 lead over HIllary.... http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/fact-checking-trump-s-speech-n597051
More lies. Imagine how this will pan out after a day of checking..... http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/23/us/politics/donald-trump-speech-highlights.html
Really bad teleprompter speaker too.
Trump is such an expert, when it comes to bankruptcy, that now he wants to tell any country, who owes us money, or who doesn't like his policies, to f-off. Our country's money will be worth pennies on the dollar, ruin our credibility regarding investment bonds. America is not one of his casinos, where he can just tell the rest of the world, that invests with our country, to go f themselves.
Now we have Hitler combined with Mussolini, trying to pull off a full blown depression and probably name some other country to blame or worse yet, nuke. Remember his temper.... very important when dealing with other leaders of the world. Oh , I forgot. He has some Muslim, black and Hispanic friends... so... "EVERYONE " loves him. Not!
Yankeefan...loved your quote!!
He is the richest man in history, to ever run for president, yet his campaign fund is broke. Spent $6 million of his campaign fund to pay family, friends and his companies, where he holds his rallies. To pay $8.00 an hour to his employees, to clean up after his rallies.
Ollie... you don't think Trump has ever been involved with a shady deal!?.. ha ha ha...
who checks the fact checkers? NYT's ? really? NBC? REALLY?????
they decide which statements to fact check and they don't pursue ones that don't fit their predetermined meme', they are democrats who are in the tank for Hillary, seesh, enough with the nonsense already. many of these so called fact checks are subject to flawed analysis anyways, they assume things, take thing otu of context, blow things out of proportion, etc, etc, etc, they ones who write this stuff should be called out for their institutionalized bias,
4 to 1, sure if they ignore what you don't like, she lies, all.the.time, call her out for it in equal measure, but they don't; because they do.not.want.to period.
these so called fact check comparisons are bunk, total bunk,
'That's Right! I said it!'
Now you're getting it Sparks, nice tie in. To add a couple of points, once Trump indicated that he would be looking into "dealing down our debt." That's even worse than banging on the folks who owe you, that's banging on the folks you owe. Once our funders flee, we collapse, the world follows and it's worse than the 1930's overnight. The gunnies and survivalists will be able to say "I told you so."
To show you how dangerous this financial nuclear threat is, try to find it in the media. Barely covered. Try to find Trump repeating it in other speeches. It's as if he was greeted in the dead of night and told to cease and desist......or else.
It's that dangerous since only the mere whisper hint that we might possibly maybe default or pay down on T-bills can end the world as we know it and no one can stop it once it starts.
On the shady part, there's plenty of documentation of Trump deals with the Mafia whether it be in hiring illegals in NYC for construction, to land purchases in AC. Heck, Trump U seems to be a consumer shady lane. He's also paid off many a complaint over the years.
On the money end, don't be fooled by broke and unable to get donors ---- it's a smoke screen and a feint. Trump is soliciting donations big time, just not to the Trump campaign. Instead, he solicits on behalf of the RNC. After the convention, those funds will be distributed and he will be flush again. Historically the RNC and DNC funding is the major source for the candidates.
Meanwhile the first feint is to make the Hillary campaign feel he is strapped. Trump can muster billions in free advertising. It's a strength he will use to make it to the convention and then grab the real money and unload. Meanwhile his kids are negotiating to start superpacs which I am sure are chomping at the bit to start.
The second feint is by playing poor, Trump can get the suckers to pony up and donate via his website. The way the con works is 1) Trump Company lends Trump Candidate himself on which he charges interest. 2) TrumpCan uses a lot of this money to buy goods and services from TrumpCo ---- like those steaks we saw, the most expensive chartered plane in the world --- Sheiks laugh at him, and even the front hall of Trump Tower when TrumpCan has a press conference. All profit to TrumpCo paid for by TrumpCan on a interest-bearing loan from TrumpCo.
It's a beautiful thing how money can just generate money.
But wait, there's more. Then TrumpCan gets the suckers to donate via his website because "I'm broke, I'm broke, the 10 Billion Dollar Don is broke." Then, and he has to do this right around or shortly after the convention, TrumpCan uses the sucker cash to pay the loan and interest to TrumpCo.
Essentially he might be the first Presidential Candidate to turn a profit on the primary process.
And then TrumpCan will claim he is still self funding but taking money from the RNC because they are funding the Republican Presidential Candidate who just happens to be TrumpCan. TrumpCo will retire from the process counting the profits on the loan and the goods and services. I bet he didn't even ask for a discount.
Meanwhile Trump has the gall to claim Hillary and The Clinton Foundation are shady. Let me see:
Hillary Clinton
- raised and gives millions to the needy and like causes
- supports the needy on a world-wide basis in third world countries
- helps kids too
- spent a lifetime in public service
- is worth $45 Million
- made a lot of speeches for money
- provides tax returns for decades
- won't share speeches or email, but all depositions are public
Donald Trump
- only gave and raised a few million to vets while running for President, had to embarrass him into distributing the money which was less than advertised
- has a foundation which looks more like a Trump profit machine than benefactor
- hires the needy to make his products on a world-wide basis in third-world countries
- hires kids too
- never raised a finger to help the public
- is worth $10 Billion
- made ten time Hillary's speaking money
- hides tax records for decades
- won't share speeches or email, and is trying to block making depositions public
So who is the more shady one?
Actually NPR and several more independent publications fact check and Trump consistently tells the most lies. Honestly it doesn't even take a fact checker Trump enjoys telling ludicrous lies and misstatements and always has. He then falls back on the 'I didn't say that' excuse.
Ollie you've drunk the Kool-Aid so it's doubtful even God himself would be objective enough for you.
And Ollie and B-Dog believe whatever Trump says. After all, he's a rich outsider.
Yes, because I don't agree with you I'm a kool aid drinker. Better to believe an outsider than what we've had. Hate to disappoint you but I mean that from both political parties. And I don't feel the need to speak to anyone about what I believe religiously. So please keep your God comments to yourself.
I have to laugh at the people who continue to call Trump an "outsider."
What comes out of his mouth is the same as what comes out of every politician's mouth: he tells his followers what they want to hear in order to get their votes, despite (like most politicians) having no clear cut plans on how to make those promises come true.
The only difference is that he has yet to win an elective office. Other than that, he's just another politician, except that he has played "business politics" instead of "public office politics."
I'll take a business politician any day. At least he's created jobs. What jobs has Hillary created besides government ones. So laugh all you want.
The only fact we can agree on is, we know what way the Supreme Court and the country will go, by our decision Nov.7th Thats THE Question.
Much as I hate to resurrect this thread, I'm posting a link to an entertaining column about Boris Johnson, who one could say is the British Trump. It is entitled "With Boris Johnson, a clown makes his exit".
I can still see the possibility of Trump exiting the scene in a similar way.
http://www.dw.com/en/opinion-with-boris-johnson-a-clown-makes-his-exit/a-19370143
Is Trump anti-Semitic?
http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/04/politics/donald-trump-star-of-david-tweet-explained/
He may not be anti-Semitic since I am sure he will take anyone's money but you tell me; is his staff Germanic or what........ I mean talk about white bread.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/dan-scavino-statement-clinton-star-tweet
Apparently Trump might be anti-Semitic or he might just have extremely bad tasted, poor judgement and a fondness for cut n paste before you vet. Hmmm, no wonder he's Jr's man :>)
"Saddam Hussein was a bad guy, right? He was a bad guy. Really bad guy. But you know what he did well? He killed terrorists. He did that so good. They didn’t read them the rights, they didn’t talk. They were terrorists - it was over. Today, Iraq is Harvard for terrorism."
Hindsight is great isn't it? But the problem is Trump always conflates dissenters with terrorists. Saddam was brutal towards those who opposed his regime - Shias, Kurds, within his own govt as the Mukhabarat hunted down and murdered rivals. It did not matter if they opposed him politically or through armed uprisings.
And its not the first time - Trump praised the Chinese govt for massacring the Tianamen protestors calling them "thugs" as they fought for their civil rights and paid with their lives.
This seems to be recurrent feature. Dissent has no place in a Trumpian world.
"mmm, no wonder he's Jr's man :>)"
News flash SD, he is going to be everyone's man who has half a brain to realise HillBill is 10 times worse.
On the contrary to what you WANT to think, I can bet a good number of people voting for Trump will be voting for him not because they think he will be a good president, but because they KNOW Hilary will be THAT BAD of one.
You are absolutely right Gadfly. But missed my point.
Don't judge people by who they are voting for just because it does not agree with who you would vote for. Many on here make conclusions on fellow posters based on who they are voting for. My point being, even though they are voting for them does not necessarily mean they agree with everything that candidate thinks, feels, or says, it could mean they just dislike the other candidate THAT much.
Heck our resident SD has even claimed to feel the assault weapons ban will be ineffective, yet still supports the lady who wants it. You don't hear me bashing him for that....
My point being, I am so tired of hearing people who say, oh you support Trump....you must be a racist, you must be a _______ fill in the blank really. No, I do not support Trump, but I do despise Hilary and Trump is the only other viable option at this point.
"Dissent has no place in a Trumpian world." So true.
And that is my major problem. Beyond all the lies, the racism, the stupid plans, the name calling and belittling of dissenters, what scares me most is at his core, Trump is a charismatic authoritarian narcissist who just does not accept dissent or critique. And when given the power of the Presidency, we have seen what can happen. I fear fascism.
Sure, you can turn this around and say the same sort of thing about Hillary and no doubt that she is quicker than many to go to war (Iraq vote, Libya, and she would have been firmer in Syria), but I don't see fascism in Hillary's future.
Using the term fascism is almost as bad as referencing Hitler, used for the emotional hit more than anything.
A component of fascism requires dictatorial control, something I think would be exceptionally difficult in the US I'd think, so I can't really see the reason for fearing it here. Now becoming a corporatocracy...
"Apparently Trump might be anti-Semitic or he might just have extremely bad tasted, poor judgement and a fondness for cut n paste before you vet. Hmmm, no wonder he's Jr's man :>)"
I don't think he's truly anti-Semitic; after all his daughter recently converted to Judaism and married a Jewish person. No true anti-Semite would ever allow that to happen, especially by a daughter whom he wouldn't mind dating himself (-;
I think he's just completely oblivious to what is glaringly obvious to someone with even an average intellect. Say what you will about his business acumen, when it comes to common sense, he ain't the brightest knife on the tree.
skippy where ianimal lives the trees have knives! must be very dangerous outside during autumn :)
Scott B Anybody but Trump works just as well.
I actually don't think that he is anti-Semite BUT he and his staff spend too much time validating white supremacist groups and leaders. Did his staff get this picture from the white supremacist site?
It's going to be soooo great when Trump loses. Maybe this will be the wake up call the Republican party needs if they ever hope to win a Presidential election again. You just can't win when you've marginalized and pissed off anyone who isn't white and disgruntled.
Yes, let's show those republicans by letting Hillary win. Deleter in Chief would be great for America
ok so we have 2 options - neither are great but at least trump does not have the criminal investigations, confirmed lies and integrity issues Clinton has.. come on guys
Eprot - the majority of the country is white and disgruntled just FYI.
Trump is being investigated for crimes too and none of these investigations are politically motivated. Tons of other reasons including most likely suffering from Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
What crimes would they be? If that was true I'm sure the MSM would be all over it. Most likely suffering fro NPD? Pretty sure that's what our commander in chief has and you don't seem to mind it. I guess it's better than an inept, lying secretary of state who wants to be commander in chief.
You may not like Obama but he does not even remotely possess any of the signs of NPD whereas Trump always has and now much more evident with the limelight. Re: investigations the rape lawsuit is the most recent but it appears to be in civil court- http://www.snopes.com/2016/06/23/donald-trump-rape-lawsuit/
Ollie - There are 3 separate class action lawsuits in New York, California, and Florida under RICO for fraud related to Trump U. He's also had a complaint lodged against his campaign for soliciting members of foreign governments. Trump apparently sent email solicitations to every member of the parliaments of the UK, Canada, Iceland, Australia, Denmark, and Finland.
Civil is a lot different than criminal and show me one time that trump has lied under oath during a criminal invest - it's sad that we have come down to this but it is what it is - Clinton has by the director of the FBIs statement made numerous false utterianxes a while under oath and at the minimum obstructed justice - stop being partisan for a minute - think about that - so you really wa t a president in office who completely disregards our justice system and fails to admit their mistakes - giving her the benefit of the doubt
" I think he's just completely oblivious to what is glaringly obvious to someone with even an average intellect." I think we agree that it's stupidity but the egregious part is doubling down. Is this behavior to be how we run the country? By twitter, cut n paste, and double down on stupid?
Here's one reason he should be jailed: http://thenewyorkcrank.blogspot.com/2012/11/donald-trump-commits-felony-makes.html
I think Comey let him go; kidding..
Trump, like many a rich businessman, distances himself from the dirty work but frequently partners, hires, or is supported by criminals. Most of the cases brought directly against Trump are civil. He uses his superb legal team to drag it out and drain the financial resources of the victims and then settles for an undisclosed pile of money, a gag order, and no apology. Cases settled include sexual misbehavior, racial discrimination in housing, tenant intimidation, hiring (and shorting) undocumented Polish workers, spousal rape, breaking AC casino rules when his father floated him some operating cash.....in chips, antitrust violations, condo hotel consorting with the mafia, multiple failure to pay cases, plagiarized materials at his "college,"
Now I think these are mostly cases settled for money, fines, etc. Not included are Trump's multitude of deals with criminals, the mafia, and other unsavory partners. That's another long post all by itself.
Much of this talks to the deal of the art; it's often a dirty deal that makes the most profit. Cutting corners, ripping off suppliers, pushing people around, all in search of a personal profit.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/06/donald-trump-scandals/474726/
So given his history, how will he handle being the most powerful man in the world?
I know. Hillary is worse. She had an email server in her house.
She lied multiple times under oath, not just having an unprotected server in her house.
Skippy, nevermind the fact that white people will probably become a minority by 2044...l'll cede to you about whites currently being a majority. But don't even begin to think that majority is full of disgruntled people who are going to pull the lever for Trump. A significant number of that white majority (myself included) cannot conceive of a worse candidate, a bigger joke, and a more dangerous threat to our nation than a paper-thin skinned crybaby man-child with NPD, aka, the Donald. Now consider that the majority of females, a vast majority of the Hispanic population, virtually the entire black community, most in the LGBT community, and others will be avoiding Trump like the plague. There's just no way he's going to win.
Ok I wish you luck - my boots on the ground report reveals that the milineals support Bernie who is a dead issue and will be converted to bill/hill and the rest who oppose bill/hill republicans disgruntled libertarians etc who represent the majorit
Commenting is no longer available.