Terrorist attacks in France 11/13
Ollie 
positive First it was 11 dead. Then 18, then 28. Then 35. Now >60. Makes me wish I was younger with an M16 in my hand to kick some ISIS butt ...
Robert Durana 
Philliesman Wait till some of the anti-israel people in that other thread read this. They will be jumping with joy.
God bless the victims, their families and France.
1988LJ Hearts go out to France and the folks in Paris especially our dear friends living and working there. The hostage situation is bad; chances are the terrorists are not looking for anything but terror. The French will probably not wait long. It's an American Band, the Eagles of Death from CA and I am sure the audience is from across Europe.
Closed the borders which I didn't think there could even do.
Jihad Johnny is gone. In Syria, Kweyris air base has been taken back. The effect of the Russians is being felt and the terrorists are pushing back in other countries. In Beirut 40 dead in suicide attacks. Kurds took Sinjar back in Iraq.
Hopefully we will galvanize more of the world to continue to erase these stains on the earth.
strangerdanger Someone in high power said this morning that we had Isis contained. I hope they pull their heads out of their backsides soon before we have them so contained they arrive here. God bless the people in France
So sad that Europe has opened themselves up to this. 1988LJ, you might be right. More likely that crowd and one in particular will try to twist it to fit his sick agenda when nothing can be further from the truth.
Suze Absolutely heartbreaking and my prayers go out to the citizens of France.
A coordinated global counteroffensive must happen because these zealots have made their intent clear enough.
Bonv ...but we still have millions of illegal immigrants roaming the USA. It's not what if, it's when.
GBUS
auntiel France immediately closed their borders. Good decision. I am worried about the many people I know who live there. I'm heartbroken over these acts, and all acts of violence. The terrorists must be stopped, and the European countries, along with Russia, need to make their moves together now.
maja How much longer are the nations going to contend with this? Why won't these nations unite and go in and fight? I'm not about war but it's gone too far. We and Europe have been victimized for too long.
1998LG you should relocate to Israel, you seem to care about it more than any other country in the world. I doubt anyone on this forum will be happy unlike Mosad agents in Jersey City after 9-11. I am very saddened by these attacks. Muslims were brought in from French colonization and have progressively increased in numbers and want to take over. The same thing happened in the former Yugoslavia, and it does not look good for France. Although after this they will likely implement a police state and will have to repress the Muslims leading to more anger.
In Israel, Jews were always the MINORITY and used terrorism and then a better army to take control.
iJay I guess they learned nothing from the attacks in January. It seems they closed the borders a little too late. I worry that it may not be over.
iJay you lie from every pore! No Mosad agents celebrated after 9/11 and please don't waste your time or mine with your nazi propaganda sites links. You are a piece of trash. I won't waste anymore energy on a lowlife who does nothing more than stir hate. Obviously, your life is miserable and you choose to lash out at perceived easy targets. Loser.
I'm sorry to deflect this thread. I am deeply sorry for the loss of innocent lives in France tonight.
I just heard Obama on tv call this a terrorist attack but did not mention anything about them being Muslim. I am wondering, are they Presbyterians?
Lamppost Exclusive: U.S. to open new screening centers for Syrian refugees - State Department
"The Obama administration is moving to increase and accelerate the number of Syrian refugees who might be admitted into the United States by opening new screening outposts in Iraq and Lebanon, administration officials told Reuters on Friday.
The move comes after President Barack Obama pledged in September to admit an additional 10,000 refugees in 2016 from Syria, torn by four years of civil war and disorder.
The U.S. State Department confirmed the plans to open a refugee settlement processing center in Erbil, Iraq, before the end of 2015, and to resume refugee processing in Lebanon in early 2016, said spokeswoman Danna Van Brandt".
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/06/us-mideast-crisis-syria-usa-idUSKCN0SV2SE20151106#tPLlbegqpbHE7DBl.97
RU Praying for the victims of the terrorist attacks in Paris.
Eternal rest grant unto them, O Lord,
and let perpetual light shine upon them. Requiescat in pace. Amen
Chapín French president François Hollande's statement outside the Bataclan concert hall:
"To all those who have seen these awful things, I want to say we are going to lead a war which will be pitiless. Because when terrorists are capable of committing such atrocities they must be certain that they are facing a determined France, a united France, a France that is together and does not let itself be moved, even if today we express infinite sorrow."
Hopefully it will be a united International community because no one country should stand alone at this time nor can one country eradicate this malignant tumor alone.
Suze, iJay and 1988 save your rants for the other thread. This thread is about having compassion for many people that were killed and terrorized just recently.
I join all above who are praying for the victims, their families, and all who are being threatened by terrorists the world over.
Spring Fever 
MeisterNJ Imagine going out to dinner or to a concert with a loved one or a friend..the furthest thing from your mind is that you are going to be killed by a crazy evil terrorist. I can only imagine the shock and fear of these poor people.
I will continue to pray for the victims and their families.
I am not only saddened by this but I am more disgusted and scared. Our own country the United States of America has open borders. What do you expect. Will our Government protect us from such atrocities. I don't see it. God help us all. ps, where are all the usual's who make light of and poo poo acts of terrorism??
Auntiel I agree..that's why I said that we and other countries should get together and wipe their dirty a**es out. Like I said..I'm not one for war, but we can no longer be sitting ducks for these insane, hateful people who's life mission is to destroy anyone that does not practice their beliefs.
Positive-
I don't wish to rant or even be political. I just made a quick remark.
Moreover, it's important that we keep our thoughts and prayers with those in France. My wife and I called a friend in Lyons and luckily she's alright, but it's not about me or my friends, it's about those who lost their lives today in Paris.
auntiel 100% right! The EU, and Angela Merkel will be the death of Europe. Poland, Hungary, and Slovakia get it. You won't see it happen there.
Denis "I didn't rant or be political, I just made a remark"
A remark that was a political remark. Good job 1988LJ
btownguy I am so happy to see everyone on this thread with eyes open. Hopefully this will help to open europe's eyes. Poland is WIDE AWAKE already. Now France is. The invasion must be stopped. Immigration, as if it wasn't already, just became the #1 topic of the upcoming election. And we aren't just talking about hispanics and the labor issues. OUR BORDERS ARE NOT SECURE.
The only "upside" I see to being American in these instances, is that we have 2A, with a lot of people CCW. If this had been attempted at many places in the US, citizens could have stopped the carnage before it got out of control. True enough, you won't stop a suicide bomber, but terrorists with guns? Absolutely. Yes, it would be like the wild west. And that's a helluva lot better than it being like a turkey shoot, which is what it was in Paris last night.
As someone said above- it's not a matter of IF, it's a matter of WHEN.
JeffersonRepub Many eyes are open JR, but so is the emotional spigot.
I sincerely hope that the true motivations for the terror are addressed, and not just in a "kill 'em all" way. True human nature is ugly-all around I might add.
justintime I agree, it's a multifaceted issue. But praying for the victims ain't going to stop more victims from being created. When it comes to the actual, armed threats- yes, we need to "kill 'em all."
Praying for the jews in WWII didn't stop it. Killing the Nazis did.
I could go on, but you get the idea. It's too late for actions that could have prevented where we are now; we're there. So now we have to deal with what IS.
What a cold and callous world we live in when our petty little political agendas replace our humanity.
May the victims rest in peace that we find so hard to achieve here on earth. May the families and friends of the victims of this awful attack find the strength and courage to overcome their loss.
GC JR- when has come and gone. 9/11. I guess that wasn't enough of a wake up call. How many innocent lives is it going to take? It seems 3,000 wasn't enough. 14 years later and people are still scratching their heads.
Surely you didn't wake up this morning to that realization GC?
Human nature makes for quite varied perspectives on things, as demonstrated daily on this site and every other place of human interaction, our responses depending on the relative importance we individually assign to events.
Personally I'm saddened but not surprised this happened, nor will I be surprised at the likely misdirection of anger that will come from this.
Misdirection of anger? I see you still haven't learned yet either.
What would YOU do, JIT? TALK to them? Or just wait for more attacks, more victims, and then offer more prayers? Don't be Chamberlain. It's time for Churchill.
Yep... nobody is going to make this a political issue, right?
I'm actually surprised Bloomberg's minions (MDA is financed by him) didn't blame the NRA.
The solution is most definitely more gun violence.. violence from A-10's, Apaches, and AC-130's creating ISIS confetti from the sky.
Mark Mc. How many are you going to kill JR.? Those who committed and directed the crimes? Those who share similar traits? Or why not just everyone who falls under an umbrella of your choosing, maybe an umbrella containing the word Muslim?
Just be careful who you rile up, because there are a great many people who won't be able to make the distinction...
We shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender.
Winston Churchill
How many? All of them. Or as many as it takes for them to be rendered harmless, or for them to surrender their jihad. Whichever comes first.
Change may come when we get someone new in the Whitehouse. 12 hours before the attack he's on ABC saying we have ISIS contained. Really? Who is advising him? Although I think that's part of the problem. He takes advice no one.
The only response to theis is to put a price on the terrorists heads and make it clear to the world that its open season on them no trial up just bang bang no questions asked
Caged Animal Good enough JR.
Caged, wrong! That's exactly what I was referring to, reacting emotionally based in revenge rather than targeted identification. If you know who "they" are then go collect them for trial. If not then you're advocating the targeting of potentially innocent people, which us no different than what the terrorists just did.
If innocent lives don't matter then why are we so upset about the events in Paris?
French police have the option to not to carry a firearm and the only country in the EU with border control is the UK - whilst a tragedy this is not shocking by any means.
skippy With thoughts and prayers for all of the innocent people lost in France yesterday, I would like to quote the words of Martin Luther King who said:
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness": only light can do that". "Hate cannot drive out hate"; only Love can do that".
joyful This administration is paying to bring 100,000 Syrian refugees to our shores - starting in New Orleans. How long until it's Paris Texas and not Paris France?
Old Gent wheres all the outcry from the Muslim world? why do we never hear their leaders denounce these barbaric attacks? maybe because they all support it? The only time you will hear from them is when they are crying about potential hate crimes against them in the aftermath.
I read this the other day and it is a sad realization.
Time is like a river. You cannot touch the water twice in the same place, because the flow that has passed will never pass again… Franklin Graham was speaking at the First Baptist Church in Jacksonville, Florida in January, 2015 when he said “America will not come back.”
He also wrote:
The American Dream ended (on November 6th, 2012 ) in Ohio.
The second term of Barack Obama will be the final nail in the coffin for the legacy of the white Christian males who discovered, explored, pioneered, settled and developed the greatest Republic in the history of mankind.
A Coalition of Blacks [black only organizations], Latinos, Feminists, Gays , Government Workers, Union Members, Environmental Extremists, The Media, Hollywood , uninformed young people, the “forever needy,” the chronically unemployed, illegal aliens and other “fellow travelers” have ended Norman Rockwell ‘s America .
The Cocker Spaniel is off the front porch… The Pit Bull is in the back yard. The American Constitution has been replaced with Saul Alinsky ‘s “Rules for Radicals” and Chicago shyster, David Axelrod , along with international Socialist George Soros will be pulling the strings on their beige puppet to bring us Act 2 of the New World Order.
Our side ran two candidates who couldn’t even win their own home states, and Chris Christie helped Obama over the top with a glowing “post Sandy ” tribute that elevated the
“Commander-in-Chief” to Mother Teresa status. (Aside: with the way the polls were run, he didn’t need any help!) People like me are completely politically irrelevant, and I will never again comment on or concern myself with the afore mentioned coalition which has surrendered our culture, our heritage and our traditions without a shot being fired.
You will never again out-vote these people. It will take individual acts of defiance and massive displays of civil disobedience to get back the rights we have allowed them to take away. It will take Zealots, not moderates & shy not reach-across-the-aisle RINOs to right this ship and restore our beloved country to its former status. Those who come after us will have to risk their lives, their fortunes and their sacred honor to bring back the Republic that this generation has timidly frittered away due to “white guilt” and political correctness…
______________________________________
The above article was written by an American Veteran who knows all too well the agony of war, and knows further, that many in this country will taste it before, and if ever, we can enjoy what our Forefathers left in our keeping. Let those who say otherwise, revel in their thoughts of glory and peace, because it will soon pass away
. https://lorrab.wordpress.com/2015/06/04/time-is-like-a-river-and-it-has-flowed-beyond-our-reach-is-it-too-late-for-america/
sha44ss Sha44s, please take that ignorant trash somewhere else. Or at least, hold off for a while out of respect for the dead and grieving.
God bless the people of France.
Gadfly Very scary article sha44ss...
What's even scarier is that there are people in this country who agree with the author.
I guess America is for white Christian heterosexual males only, huh?
People who think like you frighten me.
JerryG Really Philliesman I've seen a couple Muslim leaders denounce the attacks on TV and social media you seem to forget that most of these attacks are against other Muslims attacks like this one is a common occurrence in the Middle East it just doesn't get the air time terrorists kill far far more Muslims than any other group truth hurts
Mel You are never going to stop terrorist acts from happening. No matter how careful you are, the world cannot live in a constant state of fear and parties hell bent on jihad will slip through the borders (or already are here in the case of the 9/11 terrorists) and you won't be able to stop it. So what is the answer? Boots on the ground? Boots on the ground where, exactly? Squash the psychopaths one place, they pop up somewhere else. Put US soldiers (or any nation, for that matter) into the Middle East again and ISIS will just melt into the backgound. you won't know who the enemy is. So then what is the answer...just kill 'em all? One and a half billion Muslims in the world my friends, only a percentage of them guilty of such vicious and hateful crimes. Can you live with the blood of that many innocents on your minds? Because I know I can't.
The Muslim world who do believe these murderers are severely distorting Islam to suit their ends need to step up and take care of their own problem.
eperot "The second term of Barack Obama will be the final nail in the coffin for the legacy of the white Christian males who discovered, explored, pioneered, settled and developed the greatest Republic in the history of mankind."
explored, or exploited? How many people suffered needlessly before the rights of all began to be considered? White Christian males brought shackled slaves here like cattle in cargo holds, remember?
Entitlement - the word resonates when one uses a tragedy as a soapbox to shout such tired rhetoric. Rome fell, we've all studied why. Maybe some introspection is needed to prevent that from happening again.
I think violent extremists need to be eradicated as well as anyone who supports. But HackettstownLife should not fall prey to ready-fire-aim until we know what happened.
Based on the events we really have no place now criticizing Obama, blaming the Syrian refugees, Muslims in general, the lack of a 2A, Merkel, or in the case of sha44ss - anyone who is different. Its a bit early unless you have another agenda beyond supporting our French friends. I especially liked Denis with his "Slovakia get it." Think you meant Slovenia but if you knew culture, you see the humor
Our friend in central Paris is safe. She choose to work from home Friday so was off the street. Otherwise she would have been way to close depending on when she left work or chose to stop. God bless the internet for connecting us rapidly.
People allowed to say screw Islam without contributing to the discussion
I say screw France
Derek113 Hey Gadfly...what does the 'article' I posted have anything to do with 'disrespect' to the dead in Paris...and I did'nt write it>>YOU are the ignorant one!
And the article Jerry G( if you even read it) was about what Franklin Graham (son of Billy Graham the Christian Evangelist) who is head of Samaritan' s Purse & has met the needs of poor, sick, and suffering people in more than 100 countries and as an evangelist for the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association, he has led crusades around the world. had to say about the future of America...
And Yes....America was founded by white "" CHRISTIAN"" males>- it is a FACT. (NOT that he believes America should be only WHITE nor do I) CHRISTIANS that made America great for the past 200 years~!
The article is stating that the coalition of leftists that have taken over this Country and imposed WHITE guilt and MARXIST tactics on the rest of us is why this Country is never going back to the way it was when we WERE a GREAT NATION and
you should be scared ..
because it is not IF we are going to get hit again like 9/11 or the Paris Slaughtering but WHEN..
Barack Obama is the Trojan Horse they used to bring this World and Country to a state of chaos, division and fear...we have no recourse against him because he is Black!
We will be looking over our shoulders for a very long time!
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/11/14/matt-drudge-slams-obama-importing-muslims-united-states/
Billy Graham...a bigoted racist who believes that unless you are a white Christian heterosexual you are going to be condemned to hell for all eternity...THAT Billy Graham?? The one who condemns everyone who doesn't share his beliefs? The one who doesn't believe in tolerance for others' beliefs?
We are a nation founded on the precept of TOLERANCE; in fact, that principle is one of the foundations of our Constitution. Ever read the Declaration of Independence? "we hold these truths to be selkf evident, that all men are created EQUAL."
Bigots like you leave me speechless.
All men are *created* equal... what they do with their lives/politics/religion/morals after that is where the problems begin...
And I thought global was the biggest threat we were facing. Please, lets put someone in charge of this country before we the "containment" of isis reaches our borders. And let's call them what they are. Islamic extremists.
Wait, but isn't France a gun free zone????
"The French government and the European Union both impose extraordinarily strict restrictions on firearm possession by civilians. In France, where owning a gun for self-defense is essentially out of the question for average citizens, even many police officers are unarmed. "
http://www.thenewamerican.com/world-news/europe/item/19877-amid-terror-in-paris-gun-control-leaves-french-defenseless
"President Obama stated not too ,long ago that mass shootings don’t happen in other developed countries, but this is the third or fourth time in less than a year that France has experienced a large scale mass shooting with firearms that are banned by French law from possession in the country."
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/11/foghorn/breaking-mass-shooting-in-paris-18-dead/
Darrin JerryG, he said Franklin Graham, not Billy Graham. Pretty strong words calling him bigoted racist. I guess you have no idea what Samaritan's Purse is all about, look it up. Shame on you for calling him that.
kb2755 SD, a valid point is a valid point regardless of the reason you want to sign it off. You can say too soon all you want, but when people are left defenseless by their country's government, I get quite upset, as should the French citizens.
It is very sad that these people had to go through this, and lives were lost. I would think many lives could of been saved if it was not for their government's decision to disarm their citizens. I pray for all the people and families involved.
Hot corner Yeah i think its too soon and inappropriate to argue the lack of the 2a in France. There's a thread for that.
""You never let a serious crisis go to waste. And what I mean by that it's an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before." - Rahm Emanuel
A message for the world today.
I am pretty sure what needs to happen but let the world decide. Not sure they will come up with the right decision.
CraftBeerBob "Yeah i think its too soon and inappropriate to argue the lack of the 2a in France."
"Too soon" may have been right after the first attacks several months ago. This is just more evidence that France doesn't have the right philosophy of trusting armed citizens in public, to disastrous effect. Just like here in our big cities, sports stadiums, theaters, etc. (i.e. the specific locations these terrorists decided to attack in Paris).
"I am pretty sure what needs to happen but let the world decide. " Please Craft Beer Bob, do tell. I think we all need some answers.
@ JerryG > Biily Graham has been called one of the most admired men in history. He was friends with MLK and even bailed him out of jail in the 1960's. He was advisor to many Presidents when America was still GREAT! He and his son have done more for the poor and oppressed and starving peoples of the World no matter what race or creed. They have succeeded where governments fail. He belongs to one of the greatest generations that ever lived. That you can call him a bigot shows your ignorance.
If ONLY our greatest fear was the bigots in this country!!
Islam IS the religion of Bigotry:
"Like Ahmadinejad, Hasan Nasrallah also wants to see America destroyed: “Let the entire world hear me. Our hostility to the Great Satan [America] is absolute. ... Regardless of how the world has changed after 11 September, ‘Death to America’ will remain our reverberating and powerful slogan: ‘Death to America.’”
This chilling command is the logical extension of Islamic bigotry, and its crowning manifestation".
http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/199833/islam-religion-bigots-frontpagemagcom
A friend posted this on FB. Short, simple and true. This not just directed at the populace at large, but especially at the President of the United States.
"How about if you think all Muslims are terrorists, you're an asshole. And if you can't even acknowledge that all these terrorists are Muslim, you're also an asshole."
Blame "Junior "...this is a horrible tragedy, still stemming from "dubya's" undeclared, unreasonable, against U.N. recommendation, invasion into Iraq. Not only did he start another depression in the USA, he's managed to get almost the whole world to hate Americans. Even though this was in France, I believe these types of attacks are to send us(and the rest of the world) a message about America. I mean no disrespect to any military families. My husband was (may him rest in peace), a Marine. The soldiers are just doing their jobs, but they "ain't no senator's son".
sparksjbc1964 wow, so it's still fashionable to blame Bush, huh? You're certifiable. Keep watching MSNBC.
Read Matthew 24:6 and Mark 13:7 for answers. All battles come down to the fight for minds.IMHO.
JR, think about what you are saying, think about what motivates people to lash out? Isn't anger typically part of the equation?
Sorry, while I generally respect your views I have to point out that your blanket accusations toward a single group make ZERO sense. None whatsoever, especially when there is a tremendous amout of evidence showing continual, targeted persecution toward that group. You point out that being Muslim seems to be a common trait in these atrocities, and I think you're right, but you very convienently ignore the fact that, for many years now, that particular group has been on the recieving end of Western meddling and aggression in their societies (Bush 1, Clinton, Bush 2, and Obama ALL doing the same). You don't think that had any bearing at all, had nothing to do with creating the anger needed to push some of these folks toward retaliation?
Their religion may condone revenge, but that's not all there is to it. Heck, you want to do the same thing - act aggressively in revenge - should we all assume you're Muslim for thinking the same way?
Be careful here JR. Your logic is on extremely thin ice and if you're not careful you will start to convince people that you are exactly the same as those you seem to hate.
ISIS is attacking civilians of countries and entities who it is fighting in Syria and Iraq. Most recently, Russia (the plane), Hezbollah (ISIS bombing of Hezbollah controlled areas of Beirut), and now France.
Let's keep our eye on ISIS as the enemy. Well, Al Qaeda also, of course.
Let's NOT mix Iran into this. They are a whole separate type of entity, an enemy of sorts, yes, but not attacking us. Their Ayatollah recently said that "Death to America" means death to [what he calls] American policies and arrogance, not death to the American people.
Our war is with ISIS; Iran is a major but non-war concern to be watched. Iran and Hezbollah are actually fighting ISIS in Syria in their support of Assad.
jd2 JIT, there you go again...
What blanket statements have I made, except:
Kill all jihadists. Sounds perfectly reasonable to me. You disagree?
All the jihadists are muslims, which is true.
?
I haven't said "kill all the muslims". So I don't know where you get the data to keep repeatedly accusing me of such.
Retaliation?? Here is a post that was passed around that should explain it all very succinctly!
Lesson1
The Shoe Bomber was a Muslim
The Beltway Snipers were Muslims
The Fort Hood Shooter was a Muslim
The underwear Bomber was a Muslim
The U-S.S. Cole Bombers were Muslims
The Madrid Train Bombers were Muslims
The Bali Nightclub Bombers were Muslims
The London Subway Bombers were Muslims
The Moscow Threat Attackers were Muslims
The Boston Marathon Bombers were Muslims
The Pan-Am flight #93 Bombers were Muslims
The Air France Entebbe Hijackers were Muslims
The Iranian Embassy Takeover, was by Muslims
The Beirut U.S. Embassy bombers were Muslims
The Libyan U.S. Embassy Attack was by Muslims
The Buenos Aires Suicide Bombers were Muslims
The Israeli Olympic Team Attackers were Muslims
The Kenyan U.S, Embassy Bombers were Muslims
The Saudi, Khobar Towers Bombers were Muslims
The Beirut Marine Barracks bombers were Muslims
The Besian Russian School Attackers were Muslims
The first World Trade Center Bombers were Muslims
The Bombay & Mumbai India Attackers were Muslims
The Achille Lauro Cruise Ship Hijackers were Muslims
The September 11th 2001 Airline Hijackers were Muslims
Lesson 2(a)
Think of it:
Buddhists living with Hindus = No Problem
Hindus living with Christians = No Problem
Hindus living with Jews = No Problem
Christians living with Shintos = No Problem
Shintos living with Confucians = No Problem
Confucians living with Baha'is = No Problem
Baha'is living with Jews = No Problem
Jews living with Atheists = No Problem
Atheists living with Buddhists = No Problem
Buddhists living with Sikhs = No Problem
Sikhs living with Hindus = No Problem
Hindus living with Baha'is = No Problem
Baha'is living with Christians = No Problem
Christians living with Jews = No Problem
Jews living with Buddhists = No Problem
Buddhists living with Shintos = No Problem
Shintos living with Atheists = No Problem
Atheists living with Confucians = No Problem
Confusians living with Hindus = No Problem
Lesson 2(b)
Muslims living with Hindus = Problem
Muslims living with Buddhists = Problem
Muslims living with Christians = Problem
Muslims living with Jews = Problem
Muslims living with Sikhs = Problem
Muslims living with Baha'is = Problem
Muslims living with Shintos = Problem
Muslims living with Atheists = Problem
MUSLIMS LIVING WITH MUSLIMS = BIG PROBLEM
Lesson (3a)
**********SO THIS LEADS TO *****************
They're not happy in Gaza
They're not happy in Egypt
They're not happy in Libya
They're not happy in Morocco
They're not happy in Iran
They're not happy in Iraq
They're not happy in Yemen
They're not happy in Afghanistan
They're not happy in Pakistan
They're not happy in Syria
They're not happy in Lebanon
They're not happy in Nigeria
They're not happy in Kenya
They're not happy in Sudan
Lesson 3(b)
******** So, where are they happy? **********
They're happy in Australia
They're happy in England
They're happy in Belgium
They're happy in France
They're happy in Italy
They're happy in Germany
They're happy in Sweden
They're happy in the USA & Canada
They're happy in Norway & India
They're happy in almost every country that is not Islamic! And who do they blame?
Not Islam... Not their leadership... Not themselves, THEY BLAME THE COUNTRIES THEY ARE HAPPY IN!!
And
they want to change the countries they're happy in, to be like the
countries they came from where they were unhappy and finally they will
get hammered!
Lesson 4
Islamic Jihad: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
ISIS : AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Al-Qaeda: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Taliban: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Hamas: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Hezbollah: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Boko Haram: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Al-Nusra: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Abu Sayyaf: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Al-Badr: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Muslim Brotherhood: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Lashkar-e-Taiba: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Palestine Liberation Front: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Ansaru: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Jemaah Islamiyah: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Abdullah Azzam Brigades: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
AND A LOT MORE!And We just can’t figure out who's causing the problem.
We are all at war with Islam for THOUSANDS OF YEARS!
https://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=%2Fm%2F0v74%2C%20isis&cmpt=q&tz=Etc%2FGMT%2B5
boogey man dejour of the day
The world is made up of many different cultures.Each one has to defend it's self against some one trying to change them or capture them for the riches. They allow people in that are willing to assimilate Thats why there is such division in multiculturalism. There is not a common goal or standard. l think our fore fathers understood that in drafting the Constitution. I follows in general Judo Christian principles, and God is emblazon on the monuments around Washington.
JR, you're not kidding anyone.
"How about if you think all Muslims are terrorists, you're an asshole. And if you can't even acknowledge that all these terrorists are Muslim, you're also an asshole."
Right. I get it now. Stop it already, you're really sounding like a master manipulator and we don't need yet another one around here.
JIT. I'm not trying to kid anyone. Maybe you should stop trying to kid yourself. The statement you quoted (that my friend posted on FB), is valid. Nothing invalid about it. You sound like the mainstream media, head firmly planted in the sand. Good luck with that.
"All battles come down to the fight for minds." Won't find much fertile territory round here :>)
Sha44ss,
Adolph Hitler was NOT a Muslim, nor were the people in charge of murdering millions of Jews and others (gypsies, homosexuals, etc) in places like Buchenwald and Auschwitz.
Pol Pot was NOT a Muslim.
John Wayne Gacy was NOT a Muslim.
Son of Sam, Ted Bundy, and the Boston Strangler were NOT Muslim.
Adam Lanza (Sandy Hook, CT), Eric Harris and Dyland Klebold (Columbine High School), and James Eagan Holmes (Aurora, Colorado) were NOT Muslim.
Not a Muslim in the bunch...but mostly a lot of white Christians. Should we condemn all white Christians because of their actions? How about all Germans, just because of Hitler?
History is full of atrocities conducted by EVERYONE, not just by Muslims. Thousands were executed (and tens of thousands tortured) during the Spanish Inquisition, all in the name of the Catholic Church. The good Protestant people of Salem Massachusetts executed 24 witches.
Were the people responsible for the attacks in Paris Muslim? Apparently so -- but to condemn all Muslims on the basic of the actions of a few is like condemning all Germans on the actions of Hitler and the SS or all Catholics on the excesses of the Spanish Inquisition or the Crusades.
To condemn all people of one particular race or religion based on the actions of a minority or it's members is bigotry, pure and simple.
Not to worry SF; I am here. The rest of you are there :>)
I am here more every day.
"bigotry, pure and simple". +Judging by H L alone, it's a pretty common state of mind. Is it outlawed yet?
I don't think anyone is condemning all muslims based on the action of the extremist muslim terrorrists. However, to IGNORE the fact that ALL the terrorists have been extremist muslims is foolish. Ignoring facts doesn't make you "smarter" or a "better person" than those who actually acknowledge the facts.
The fact is, regardless of the particular group they come from (ISIS, Al-Queda, Muslim Brotherhood, etc)... they are all the same in their jihadi goals: to destroy western civilization and Israel. This is a global movement, and global war frankly... WE may not have declared war on them, but they certainly have declared war on the non-muslim world.
The president is still hell bent on letting these refugees in even though we have no way to vet them and some of the terrorists in Paris were Syrian refugees. Keep your head in the sand people. So far it's working out well.
"they certainly have declared war on the non-muslim world."
Not that simple. A lot of it has to do which what they perceive we have been, and are, doing to them, in their neck of the woods.
I think it is important to understand this. Still, if it just becomes Them against Us, then I am definitely for "Us" (in case anyone reads otherwise into my comments).
"Imagine going out to dinner or to a concert with a loved one or a friend..the furthest thing from your mind is that you are going to be killed by a crazy evil terrorist. I can only imagine the shock and fear of these poor people."
Imagine going to work for a paycheck so you can feed and clothe your children....the furthers thing from your mind is that you are going to be killed by a crazy terrorist. I can only imagine the shock and fee of these 3,000 poor people.
Jerry G...is this Thread about the Terrorist attacks in France? Are we talking about mental Instability mass murderers and domestic terrorism? Although...if we are I can argue with you that almost all those people above and Terrorists have alot in common!
They are all IST's!>>Communists/Socialists/Marxists/ISlamists/= MENTALISTS= EVIL!
And not one of them was a white Christian killing and calling on the name ofJESUS!
I'm not a bigot....I have lots of friends that are black, hispanic, Jewish etc., and our neighbors are Muslims and very nice people, and they are not Jihadists!! I have friends that are Christians from Syria and know that Basir Assad is NOT the bad guy over there. Believe me they know who is supplying the arms to the 'rebels' and spreading the propaganda over there to bring the Muslim Brotherhood in control to establish their Caliphate!
But what we are talking about right here is Terrorism and how to define it! And if you can't CALL it Islamic Terrorism You CAN'T define it!
Open Borders and Unchecked Immigration to ANY Country is National Suicide! Europe is finding that out>>>can we NOT learn from it?
IF our current Administration was following our Laws we would be profiling the people who need to be profiled!
IF our current Administration was folllowing our Law our BORDERS would be CLOSED!
IF our current Administration was following our Laws ILLEGAL aliens would be being deported and we wouldn't be fighting about any of this!!
We would not be in this state of CHAOS that is causing us all to FEAR for our lives and our Future!!
It is NOT ANTI ANYONE >>> IT IS PRO>>US!! IT IS COMMON SENSE!
I think the state of mind of the 'politically correct' is what needs to be outlawed!
Ollie, I agree. I can't believe he's still going through with it. On the other hand I can believe it.
"even though we have no way to vet them".
It seems that actually we have a very good vetting system for refugees (not to be confused with illegal immigrants).
Not all Syrian refugees are Muslim. Some are Christian, some other.
I can see the concern though.
jd2 I'm afraid we don't. Homeland security has even confirmed that. I never said all Syrian refugees were Muslim. Sadly, all the terrorists have been
I hope I am not called a Bigot, But !!! How about using common sense
http://mic.com/articles/128596/isis-militants-are-suspected-of-another-attack-in-turkey#.LtAIwu8Qj
http://mic.com/articles/128551/terrorist-suicide-bombing-attack-on-beirut-lebanon-kills-43-and-injures-hundreds#.7D6i71bEg
Even if they are Muslim they deserve our help but not by bringing them here.
The Jihads/ISIS (whatever you want to call them) are very clever and do not care about dying for their cause. They will find ways to pose as refugees to get in. They shouldn't be underestimated.
Wow... Old Gent...talk about Media blackout!.... wonder why it wasn't reported on Breitbart.....hmmmmm...???
Getting harder and harder to trust ANY media anymore.
Is it only me that sees the similarities to the guerrilla war fought in Vietnam? N.Vietnamese terrorized towns and forced them to cooperate otherwise be slaughtered. If you didn't cooperate, you were an "enemy of "the people" aka the NVA & their CHICOM supporters/backers, even though the people being terrorized were in actuality "the people". You couldn't really tell friend from foe and innocents were brainwashed or forced to comply in terms of killing themselves and others via "homicide bombing".
Phil D. @JerryG everyone of the people you mentioned did not kill for religious reasons, if anything Hitler tried to suppress the influence of the church. They all killed for different reasons, and last bunch were just plain sociopath's. All the current terrorist attacks taking place ( today ) have one thing in common, they are done in the name of Islam. You resort to the usual bogus pc attempt to dig deep in to history to try and give Islam a pass. The Spanish Inquisition happened in the 1400's, a time the Radical Islamists are trying to bring us back to.
I guess we got the first wave in Louisiana already!
http://100percentfedup.com/breaking-first-10000-syrian-refugees-arrive-in-la-estimated-cost-to-taxpayers-for-family-of-four-is-257480/#
http://www.katc.com/story/30519158/jindal-demands-answers-about-syrian-refugees-arriving-to-louisiana-after-paris-attacks
Michigan Gov is suspending them coming to his state.
http://allenwestrepublic.com/2015/11/15/mi-governor-suspends-all-efforts-to-accept-refugees/
Wonder when WE get ours?...
This is the list of Cities they are being sent to from the above Louisiana Story... Camden>East Orange>Jersey City>>..............and the LAST TRAIN STOP IS WHERE???
USCCBNJ-USCCB-01: Migration And Refugee Services
Address:1845 Haddon Ave.Camden, NJ 08103Phone:856-342-4167Fax:856-342-4180
HIASNJ-HIAS-02: Jewish Vocational Service Of Metrowest
Address:111 Prospect St.East Orange, NJ 07017Phone:973-674-6330Fax:973-674-7773
IRCNJ-IRC-02: International Rescue Committee
Address:208 Commerce Place, 4th FloorElizabeth, NJ 07201Phone:908-351-5116Fax:908-351-5776
CWSNJ-CWS-02: CWS Jersey City
Address:26 Journal Square Suite 600Jersey City, NJ 07306Phone:973-722-6726
Number of refugees in Louisiana so far:
Seven Syrian refugees have been resettled in Kenner, while six have been placed in New Orleans with one placed in Baton Rouge, a State Department spokesperson said Sunday in response to a request for the numbers from WWL-TV.
14.
jd2,
"I think it is important to understand this. Still, if it just becomes Them against Us, then I am definitely for "Us" (in case anyone reads otherwise into my comments)."
IMO, it has already become "them against us"- and I base that opinion on THEIR WORDS AND THEIR PROMISES. If they are now on a mission to exterminate the western world, and/or bring them to obedience under Sharia, then we are past the point of "understanding" anything. It has become- according to them- KILL OR BE KILLED. So, with that in mind, KILL.
That's exactly where I stand.
Yet who is "them"?
Looks like we've now moved in to categorizing anyone who's a refugee as "them" (since calling every Muslim "them" hasn't worked too well) - it's a way to feel like we're doing something I guess.
Will you kill me? Do you want to see me dead?
I certainly don't want to see that for you no matter what you might think I represent or what you might think you know about me.
H -town Mama If all the parties can get together and solve Syria.....
First big pow-wow took place in Vienna this week. Russia, the US, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Iraq, Italy, Egypt, Great Britain, Germany, Lebanon, Qatar, Iran, France, China, the UAE, Jordan, Oman, the EU and the UN all took part.
Our best hope for eliminating ISIS, probably.
Yet who is "them"?
We've been over this, why you refuse to accept the answer, I don't know. Unless you're talking to someone else?
I've said it before- I don't care if you're a muslim, christian, atheist, or druid. If you wish death upon me and mine, and/or attempt to carry out such wishes, I will kill you first. Period.
I find it interesting that all of you who are crying foul at "the way muslims are being profiled", or "you can't judge all muslims by the actions of some" or "America got herself into this mess and so it's no surprise this is what's happening" seem to have zero problem with muslim terrorists targeting an ENTIRE COUNTRY- for the actions of a few. If they're pissed at Bush, or Clinton, or W, or Obama, they should target THEM, not INNOCENT CIVILIANS, right? Their actions, regardless of the motivations, make them targets. If they're willing to die for their God, well then...
If you are wondering what the Syrian refugees are thinking after the Paris attacks:
http://www.thelocal.fr/20151115/syrian-refugees-brace-for-backlash-after-paris-attacks
And 5 more released from Gitmo. I'm sure they would never go join another terrorist group.
The U.N. says 72% of the Syrian refugees are male, and 15% are women, 13% are children. And only half of them are actually from Syria....
http://therightscoop.com/united-nations-says-72-of-syrian-refugees-are-men-only-13-are-children/
I find it interesting that there aren't hordes of Christians among these refugees (at least it certainly isn't being reported), when they are now one of the the largest persecuted peoples in the region. You would think with the Muslims specifically targeting, raping, killing, and crucifying christians, they would be wanting to flee as well.... maybe they're all dead already.
"with the Muslims specifically targeting, raping, killing, and crucifying christians, they would be wanting to flee as well.... maybe they're all dead already"
this is correct, the ethnic cleasning of the christian minority continues at an accelerated pace
but i would separate out the religious extremists form the Americanized and assimilated Islamists who live among us peaceably. i have several friends who are like this and they are shocked and dismayed at what is happening.
and the ISIS/Islamist extremists are coming here, they are already here and more are on the way over; (due to the open borders polices of our apologist president); they are making plans to attack us on our soil, in our cities, it's no longer a question of 'what if', it is only a question of 'when' does it happen.
so keep your heads up, your eyes open, if you go into the city, have a good situational awareness about your surroundings, look around, don't go out there blind and assuming that nothing is going to happen. mayor debalsio (or as i call him, 'Lurch') is not going to protect you, he can't do it, NYC is less safe since he has been in office. carry the means to protect yourself with you. be prepared.
BrotherDog I think what happened is that Merkel said Germany would take as many Syrians as wanted to come. Just Syrians. But of course now many others, Afghans, East Europeans, etc, are mixing in. Germany intends to send the others back. Easier said than done!
As to a breakdown by religion of the migrants, I doubt if this can even be tracked yet (if ever).
Note also that a million Syrian refugees are in Lebanon. That country has a large Christian area that presumably many Syrian Christians would go to first if possible.
"Is it only me that sees the similarities to the guerrilla war fought in Vietnam?" No, I do not see the Vietnam similarities in that ISIS is a subhuman group of very evil men intent on bringing enemies to them to fight. To bring us in and to continue operations, ISIS destroys the region and now, when losing ground, reaches out to bring that destruction to our front doors. ISLAM has nothing to do with it, it's not about religion but about their hatred for Western Nations and humanity in general. To fuel that hatred, they need money to operate. At their core, they are just brutal killers with no other agenda.
They torture and kill anything; they steal and sell anything, they destroy everything. There are no boundaries on their cruelty, no religious or moral code except death and destruction. They recruit anyone who wants to do the same and like-minded evil people are attracted. Perhaps it's hatred of the West but really it's about hatred of humanity with a level of barbarism beneath that which is human.
ISIS promotes ethnic cleansing on a historic level against non-Arabs and Non-Sunni Muslims alike executing thousands. Even Sunni's have been dragged out from their houses on holy days to help ISIS rob their banks. These are not religious men but evil men using religion as an excuse to destroy, torture and kill.
The situation is muddied by the fact that ISIS was born and financed to bring down Assad. This brought in money from Saudi, Kuwaiti, and Qatari donors Syria is Sunni so anti Sunni money was coming in too. Today, the Saudi's have made donations illegal but Qatar still provides a few funds.
The situation is further muddied in that beyond Assad, it's still about the oil, not that much but oil critical to Russia.
To destroy ISIS you really need to remove the reason known as Assad which means Russia must feel that they will continue to get the oil without Assad.
Except for evil idiots, no one likes ISIS and everyone is scared of what they do. To make money beyond donations, they kidnap, ransom, rob banks, plunder historical and sacred objects, pillage anyone they conquer, sell black market oil, and illegal drugs. First thing upon capturing new land is to rob the banks and steal everything that the citizens have; everything. Later, they even tax and sell utilities to conquered citizens.
Arab nations are fighting ISIS. Arab nations flying sorties in Syria include Bahrain, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and the United Arab Emirates. Jordan's King Abdullah himself has flown missions. These countries have put themselves in harm's way especially if ISIS expands it's theater. Another half dozen Arab nations provide other resources against ISIS including: Bahrain, Egypt, Iraq, Kuwait, Lebanon, Oman, Qatar and the United Arab Emirates. There is some duplicity here in that a small number ISIS donations are still flowing from Qatar and perhaps Kuwait and the UAE.
So here we are, ISIS has reached out to Western shores. We are bombing them and taking ground back. We have shrunk their cash flow. We have many allies helping and some allies like Russia and Iran kind of helping. What to do next? Do we send in the troops, go broke and take the casualties, remove Assad somehow without offending Russia and then begin another failed process of rebuilding a nation? Do we flatten the region destroying enemy and innocent alike? If you believe like me that the goal of ISIS is to draw us in to do exactly that, I am not sure doing what ISIS wants is our best solution.
The world is always at risk from a few men with guns and bombs who can kill many soft targets. These sub-humans have shown their willingness for evil. I suggest that we continue to focus on defeating that. There was a professional group that we did not see. There is professional bomb maker with a small factory. There was a conduit for a small arsenal. I think we will find a number of security flaws that the French and other Euro nations can fix. As well as the U.S. As some have noted, their EU open border might be a good idea but the process is not working. We need to better be able to listen to terrorist communications breaking the code on the dark web so they can't talk in private over the web.
IMHO, in Syria, we need to avoid being the lone ranger and world's top cop. Need to continue to build the coalition now that NATO has been attacked, promote and support NATO's boots on the ground efforts to rid the region of ISIS. We need to eradiate these evil men and their financial supporters, but I hope we will not put boots on the ground unless part of an international effort that includes removing Assad.
That was the most awful speech/question and answer session I have heard thus far. I am hoping he takes some 5 hour energy drink before going to the summit. I wanted to shake him and tell him to speed up the talk. It is hard to believe that Mr. Obama is leading this nation. it was like he was constantly searching for the words. Scary.
justwondering Funny some people on a another thread are crying because they feel some company isn't respecting the religious beliefs by not putting anything on a cup they feel like there is a attack on their beliefs some of them turn right around on this thread and say how we need to turn away people bomb them don't let them in really you cry about you feel your under attack by a coffee cup then feel perfectly okay to do it to someone else's religion the baby Jesus would be proud of you all following his teachings
oldred. I have found that many,many people that call themselves christian, have no idea what Jesus said. Just as many Muslims don't know what there religion says. Hence they all get high jacked for there own purpose.
If we had a president with a set of balls this would not be a problem like it is now!!
Kind of interesting:
http://www.dw.com/en/hamas-hezbollah-islamic-jihad-denounce-paris-attacks/a-18850966
You are right Dadof3
if only the president would spend hundreds of millions of dollars trying to kill these people from the air. Oh wait he is doing that you're another one of these boots on the ground guys which you think is a perfectly good idea as long as it's not your boots another armchair general. So tell me general Dadof3 With your vast experience in combat how do you propose we do it if you go in with boots on the ground they will just blend back into the population and disappear
Agree Dadof3. But then again I'm just one of those bitter clingers. Clinging to my guns and religion.
This man is delusional. He called what happened in Paris a "setback." I'm sure the family members of those killed and hurt will be glad to know that.
He's not delusional. All part of his plan to "fundamentally change America". Uh-huh.
States refusing Syrian (et al) "refugees" after Paris:
Arizona
Alabama
Arkansas
Florida
Illinois
Indiana
Louisiana
Maine
Massachusetts
Michigan
Mississippi
North Caroline
Ohio
Texas
..but don't worry, Christie is Obama's hug buddy... we'll take all you can stuff in!
You're absolutely right oldred- we should do nothing. Just let them continue their worldwide caliphate, after all it's our fault they are doing it right? Just let them go, they can make it over here, start changing our culture, and before you know it they will bring the wonderful Sharia law to the great US of A! But we should just let them, even help them... we should voluntarily submit to Islam and Sharia, that way no one has to die- we won't have to kill them for trying to terrorize bomb and kill us, and they won't have to kill us because we will willingly submit to their jihad. Great idea. Don't know why no one's thought of it before.
The President said ISS is under control, clean out Gitmo. Relax. (He is delusional)
Sen Finestein from the intelligence committee just said she has never been more concerned.
@olderd i want to say after reading your comment you changed my mind. Sorry i think the president is taking the right approach to this. Sitting back letting the Russians take the lead on this. They are doing a great job of bombing empty fields. And oh yes Obama has a great foreign affairs strategy. Open our door to all the refugees we can handle, great plan. Just bring them to us, no need for them to find a way here.
States are allowed to refuse admission to people who have been issued a visa by the federal government?
And your other rant is predicated on the assumption that old red (or anyone, for that matter) has said that we should "do nothing". Can you point out where anyone said anything of the sort?
That said, a "well-regulated militia" is looking more and more necessary all the time. Concealed carry should become the law of the land at the federal level.
ianimal Send all of the Syrians to Washington DC.
After all, only 1 in 8 got into France posing as a Syrian refugee. They should be able to weed out those odds.
Let the White House handle this JV team.
YoumustbeaDUMBacrat @strangerdanger you found it particularly amusing my comment "Poland, Hungary, and Slovakia get it", and no I didn't mean Slovenia, you do realize they are 2 separate countries?? Or are you that clueless? You can include Slovenia in that mix too. How so, because they don't want to turn the future of the children, and grandchildren, to Muslims, and Islam? They don't want Merkel dictating the future of their countries. Don't blame muslims, when it's muslims who are commiting all these terrorist attacks. Don't blame Merkel when she is the won who opened the flood gate, and said she wouldn't put a limit on them. Don't blame refugee invasion when at least one of the terrorist has been confirmed to be a so called refugee. Your living in a delusional PC world. Your part of the problem!
As far as the jihadists go, do some reading from their former leader.....
“Our talks with the infidel West and our conflict with them ultimately revolve around one issue; one that demands our total support, with power and determination, with one voice, and it is: Does Islam, or does it not, force people by the power of the sword to submit to its authority corporeally if not spiritually? Yes. There are only three choices in Islam: [1] either willing submission [conversion]; or [2] payment of the jizya, through physical, though not spiritual, submission to the authority of Islam; or [3] the sword, for it is not right to let him [an infidel] live. The matter is summed up for every person alive: Either submit, or live under the suzerainty of Islam, or die.”
–Osama Bin Laden
(The Al Qaeda Reader, p. 42)
Apparently Christie has blocked "Syrian" "refugees." Thank you, Mr. Christie.
Updated list: now 22 states
Alabama
Arizona
Arkansas
Florida
Georgia
Illinois
Indiana
Kansas
Kentucky
Louisiana
Maine
Massachusetts
Michigan
Mississippi
Montana
New Hampshire
New Jersey
North Carolina
Ohio
Tennessee
Texas
Wisconsin
I wish he would be as enraged with the terrorists as he is with republicans. What an embarrassment
FYI Glenn Beck
46 mins · Facebook Mentions · Edited ·
All the homeless vets should claim to be Syrian refugees. That way Obama will make sure they get housing, healthcare and cash.
--GB
JR, you realize that it's nothing but a political ploy, right? Governors have no such power to "block" anyone. People are free to come and go as they please once the federal government grants them a visa.
I work for a large French company and today we found out that one of our colleagues was killed and four others are in critical condition. It is incredibly sad to know that all of these people were just enjoying a Friday evening and had their lives stolen for absolutely no reason.
So sorry for the loss of your colleagues Bonv. I cannot imagine having to deal with such a trajedy in my family or circle of friends. My heart aches for those people who lost loved ones, and for the ones who are maimed for life their pain is beyond comprehension. We have to have faith that they are at Peace for Eternity now and know that is God's Promise!
That their lives were ended for no reason is the fault of their Government who have left their doors wide open welcoming the Evil that preys upon the innocent. WE are in danger here at home now too more than ever since even 9/11 because we are afraid to OFFEND! Unless we learn from Europes mistake the whole World will be destroyed.
"THE WORLD WILL NOT BE DESTROYED BY THOSE THAT DO EVIL BUT BY THOSE WHO WATCH THEM WITHOUT DOING ANYTHING! Albert Einstien
Ian,
Individuals, yes. But in Europe refugees are being settled en masse. I can only assume the same plan would apply here. Why not? In Germany, a village of 102 people are being saddled with 750 refugees..... those aren't 750 people coming in one at a time, that's 750 people being settled there by the German govt. It is these kinds of actions the Governors are trying to stop.
Before now, the flow of refugees has been...normal. Several hundred here, several hundred there.... 10,000 spread out over the entire nation..... BUT... if the US is planning to begin letting in the numbers that Europe has, it's a different ballgame. I think 10,000 landed EN MASSE here in the US just last week. That's not a year- that's one "shipment".... how many of these are we going to have???
And lemme guess- they'll be able to take advantage of all of our social programs as well... putting a larger tax on the system than is already there......
jerryg wrote - "We are a nation founded on the precept of TOLERANCE; in fact, that principle is one of the foundations of our Constitution. Ever read the Declaration of Independence? "we hold these truths to be selkf evident, that all men are created EQUAL."
and i agree with this of course, but the ISIS/Islamists do not share this belief. and we are letting them walk into the country through the UN refugee program. (there is no vetting process to weed out dangerous terrorists, they are being shipped here daily at this point)
our president talks about our core values, our shared values, but he seems to have no awareness that these people do not share our core values,
the ISIS/Islamists do not believe in free speech, they do not believe in tolerance, they do not believe in equal rights for women,
they just do not share our values, at all, and they are working hard to eradicate them through the practice of genocide and forced submission (slavery).
in Paris alone there are 47 Mosques that teach Sharia Law, that's where these terrorists are finding safe haven, the local Sharia communities in France, England, and the United States want a change in the culture and laws of their new host countries.
They do not share our common values of free speech, equal rights, and 'tolerance' .
we all need to be strong enough to not allow that to take place, "that I will not allow" said Morgan in TWD recently,
i think that's good advice . . . . .
JR needs to do a little fact checking before launching his usual rant...and to all of you Obama haters blaming him for the current situation, ok, so...what's your plan? You have a solution?
From Snopes:
A 16 November 2015 Associated Press article (which ran in the Winston-Salem Journal) titled "McCrory: Cease Sending Syrian Refugees to North Carolina" carried paraphrased comment from Gov. Pat McCrory, clarifying that just under 60 total individuals had arrived in the state from Syria between January 2014 and November 2015:
McCrory told a news conference in Charlotte on Monday that the concerns are warranted in light of last weekend's terrorist attacks in Paris. He said the concern was that some terrorists would pose as refugees to gain access to the country ... The governor said that from January 2014 through last month, North Carolina has accepted 59 refugees from Syria. He said the state has received almost no security information about the refugees, including their identities.
By Gov. McCrory's estimate, North Carolina took in an average of 2.6 Syrian refugees per month in the period cited. In a response to separate rumors about vast numbers of Syrian refugees in New Orleans, CNN referenced Department of State figures which placed the total number of Syrian refugees arriving in the U.S. between 2011 and late 2015 at 1,500:
A total of 1,500 Syrian refugees were brought to the United States between 2011, when the conflict in Syria erupted, and September 2015, according to CNN. It was expected several hundred more would arrive in the final three months of this year — part of the 10,000 expected by October 2016.
yankeefan Just to continue the fact-checking, here is an informative article about the refugee resettlement plan. It is from back in September.
http://www.businessinsider.com/afp-how-the-us-plans-to-welcome-10000-syrian-refugees-2015-9
Note that they are to be checked out for at least 18 months BEFORE they come over, in order to weed out those who are unacceptable.
If we decide not to take any now, it should be done with regret.
Let's stick with opinions and ideas and skip the personal stuff like "are you that clueless?" or "Your living in a delusional PC world. Your part of the problem!"
With a couple of Slovakian grandparents, I am pretty sure I realize it's a separate country and one that allows refugees, albeit a small number of Syrian Christians only. Yet they are accepting refugees and I can understand where they are coming from.
The cultural humor I referred to is that Slovakia historically has been a major crossroads and intersection for every imaginable conquering people. It is Europe's premier melting pot. Starting with the Celts moving the indigenous Slovaks to the hills, they have been "immigrated" by Dacia, Rome, Germany, the Huns, Vandals, Slavs, Avars, Hungarians, Turks, etc. etc.
From shipboard records and census records my grandparents have listed multiple birth countries and they all may be correct! Until 1918, they were born in Austria-Hungary (pick one), 1918-1938 Czechoslovakia, 1938-1945 - Germany, 1945 - Ukraine......
So I hope you can understand where I was coming from when I said "f you knew culture, you see the humor."
1000 likes JR...save you and a few others ....the rest are clueless.
The media is not showing the persecution that the Muslim ''refugee's inflict upon the 'infidals'. http://shoebat.com/2015/10/28/guess-what-else-muslim-so-called-refugees-are-bringing-into-germany/
Those 102 people that are being saddled with the refugees are then preyed upon> like Wolves being integrated with sheep!
they do not share are common values, period.
an eclectic, tolerant, and modern day Europe is allowing the influx of refugees because it's a humane act, to help your fellow man when he is trouble.
and that's a good thing, except that the only trouble with it is these refugees and immigrants are bringing their own culture with them, a culture that does not recognize free speech, freedom of assembly or freedom of religion. you know what? That's three strikes right there on our very first amendment!
rather than assimilate into the host countries that have generously let them in, they go out and work hard to change the culture of their new host countries to be more like the places they have come from for sanctuary! ? !! that means: intolerance of others religions, no equal rights for women; and they keep attempting (with increasing successes) to implement Sharia law in their communities. this is happening in Paris (and all across France), Germany, England and other places in Europe, Sweden, Denmark, Belgium, the list goes on and on. it's a relentless march to convert/conquer/kill/enslave those who are not like themselves, and change the culture, no more free open societies, that's history.
and they want to do the same thing here in the United States, (first to go there will the kardashians, some of you may be ok with that one)
Obama spouts off about 'common shared values' - like free speech, freedom of religion, freedom of Assembly, with no acknowledgement or understanding of what these twisted Islamist factions really want,
(hello? is there anybody in there??)
Hamas, Hezbollah and Islamic Jihad denounce the attacks. I wonder if they would do so if all those that died and were injured were Jews. I think we all know the answer to that.
Crazy right Justin. I wonder how your feelings will be when they set off a nuclear or chemical device in one of our cities. Keep sticking your head in the sand.
Brother dog. Didn't we already prove back in January that those "no go" zones you were talking about were complete bs.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/nogozones.asp
Darwin BD, you fail to recognize that the overwhelming majority of the immigrants are families...women and children...running for their lives. They are caught in a war between a brutal dictator who has zero problem killing his own people, and the lunatic ISIS forces who are even more barbaric. Bombed out of their homes, starving, frantic to get out of harms way. Certainly not in the least interested in anything more than survival. Your paranoia has overcome your humanity.
@Strangerdanger I am aware of the history of the area, and my Grandmother had the same identity problem. That in no way negates what I said in Slovakia gets it right, and no I don't see the humour of a Christian country, which Slovakia is, and no I didn't mean Slovenia, fighting to maintain its values, and stop the spread of Islam into its borders. I'm glad it is amusing to you.
darwin/ YF ; you both missed the point as usual, focusing on things unsaid instead what is said.
shared values was the point, that's what our president keeps saying over and over again,
obama says we have core values, and he is right, but what he (and you two) cannot come to grips with is the values that reside in these communities all across Europe are very different than our own.
a culture that does not recognize free speech, freedom of assembly or freedom of religion. That knocks out our 1st amendment right there.
look at the facts of what's happening, time to get real about what is going on,
the mastermind of this operation is a Belgium citizen who was born and raised in Belgium, look at the communities in Belgium and in France where he has found support and succor for his violent radical views,
after 9/11, were you guys not shocked at the cheering for the attack on us? they were cheering in London, in Paris, in Copenhagen and other European cities across the continent, or did you all miss that? some right here in the USA, did you forget about the group in Paterson who were very happy we were attacked? they cheered for days, and they are still there in Paterson, NJ,
doesn't any of that mean anything to you guys? or is it something else we just need to ignore?
the shared values and principles we hold dear here in the USA are not the same common core values that are being implemented in these communities.
"you fail to recognize that the overwhelming majority of the immigrants are families...women and children."
Perhaps a little fact check ON YOURSELF is in order?
75% Men. Only 51% from Syria:
https://refugeeresettlementwatch.wordpress.com/2015/09/07/unhcr-data-confirms-it-75-of-the-so-called-refugees-arriving-in-europe-are-men/
from the EU: 72% Men. Only 20% from Syria:
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/eu-of-600000-refugees-only-20-are-syrian-72-men/article/2573083
from the UN: 72% Men
http://newobserveronline.com/un-confirms-72-of-nonwhite-invaders-are-men-isis-boasted-500000-strong-invasion-force/
The IOM has confirmed the UN’s figures of the invasion force being overwhelmingly adult males. In one country alone, Macedonia, the IOM reported that the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia’s Ministry of Interior, between June 19 and September 7, 2015, a total of 64,522 invaders were registered, out of which 43,671 or 68% were men; and only 8,857 women; 10,386 were children accompanied by a family member, and 1,608 unaccompanied minors.
The IOM added that the “current average arrival rate at the southern border [of Macedonia] is estimated at more than 3,000 per day.”
* The UNHCR report also revealed that only half of the “war refugees” are coming from actual war zones. According to the UN figures, 50% of registered “Mediterranean sea arrivals” come from Syria, 13% from Afghanistan, 8% from Eritrea, 4% from Nigeria, 3% from Somalia, 3% from Pakistan, 3% from Iraq, 2% from Sudan, 1% from Gambia, and 1% from Bangladesh.
It is clear therefore, even according to UNHCR figures, that the vast majority of this nonwhite invasion force do not qualify in any way as “refugees” or asylum seekers—as defined by the UN’s own rules.
Core Value:
“Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.”
And JR, I disputed your statement that "I think 10,000 landed EN MASSE here in the US just last week. That's not a year- that's one "shipment".... how many of these are we going to have???
Not the gender of the refugees... and in these cultures, it would be the men (fathers, husbands, brothers) who went first...and then if possible send for the rest of the family.
" some right here in the USA, did you forget about the group in Paterson who were very happy we were attacked? they cheered for days, and they are still there in Paterson, NJ"
it makes for a nice story but in 14yrs I'm still searching for video, pictures, first hand accounts of that actually happening. You would think there would be some video of that right? please find me some real data that it actually happened because I cant find any and would like to know if this was true or just urban legend
You (yankeefan) said:
"you fail to recognize that the overwhelming majority of the immigrants are families...women and children."
You have an opinion not based on facts. SHOCKER.
The King of Jordan gets it: (altho personally I disagree with him on the "refugee" situation, but hey- nobody's perfect lol)
http://news.yahoo.com/king-jordan-warns-world-war-against-humanity-161351407.html
The constitution needs to be re written. It's not the 1700's anymore when we needed immigrants because there was not a large enough work force. Enough already.
According to Bernie Sanders, John Brennan, and John Kerry. Global warming is to blame for ISIS bombing France, and all the refuges fleeing the dessert. I blame the acid our leaders dropped back in the 60's, and I blame the crack our younger leaders are smoking today, for these stupid, stupid words coming out of their mouths and these stupid ideas in their heads. God help our children.
The US government has already spent $500 million training the Syrians to over throw Assad, but the people they trained turned over their weapons to terrorists then fled to Europe every time they crossed into Syria. If they aren't willing to fight for their country after being trained, armed, and supported, why should we pay tens of thousands of dollars per person to give them a better life than the homeless in the US get right now? What makes a homeless veteran who has already fought for the United States of America less deserving than economic migrants unhappy with which part of Sweden they've been given free houses in?
Their "government" is the Free Syrian Army, the United States and its allies fighting against ISIS and Assad for the future of THEIR country, or anyone else that wants to see something other than a fundamentalist hellhole in Syria. ISIS is made up of less than 50,000 fighters. The Syrian Army is desperately short of manpower. There are over 800,000 Syrians flooding into Europe with videos showing seas of military age men with no women or children in sight. That isn't even counting the millions in Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt, or Turkey.
If France, the UK, or some other Western country with close ties to Arab states can't raise an army to fight for the future of Syria from the endless sea of military age Syrian men, why should western nations be spending $23 billion euros just on those trying to reach their preferred destination of Germany - rioting when they aren't given the deference they demand?
Proposed Solution:
Raise an army of Syrians to take back Syria from Assad, ISIS, or whoever else trained by Western powers, China, Russia, or whoever, and help them take the country back accordingly. This isn't complicated. They have been at war for thousands of years.
If they don't want to fight for the future of democracy in their country, we should have no obligation to help them. If we can't trust them enough to train them as a force for Syria, we can't trust them to live next to our homes and our children.
Until we cure our own problems of homeless, hunger, and abandoned veterans, we have no business putting Syrians before our people. It is as simple as that. If you can find money for Syrians, you can find money for Americans. I am not against immigration. I am against putting economic migrants before our own citizens including homeless veterans who actually fought for the freedom these Syrians are so desperate to enjoy without fighting for it themselves.
The population the US is selecting the 10,000 from are in Middle Eastern and North African refugee camps and are registered with the UN. The UN has identified a subset of them as vulnerable and needing to be resettled somewhere safer (unaccompanied minors, single-mothers with children, the infirm, torture survivors, those subject to religious persecution, etc).
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/10/21/us/where-syrian-refugees-are-in-the-united-states.html?_r=1
The refugees have been arriving from Syria since 2012 have been placed in 130 towns and cities. They are among the most vulnerable people in the war: single mothers and their children; religious minorities; victims of violence or torture. ... Refugees trying to reach the United States must apply through the United Nations, and before being accepted, they are screened by the F.B.I. and through databases run by the Defense Department. So these people are about as well vetted as you can get. The argument that terrorists are hiding amongst them only works when you're talking about refugees traveling into Europe in groups so large and unorganized that it's impossible to background check them all. That's simply not the case for the US.
"The constitution needs to be re written. It's not the 1700's anymore when we needed immigrants because there was not a large enough work force. Enough already."
Wow wow!
Ok then, how would you re-write it? Would there be any type of individual liberty at all "allowed" to the peasantry? Or would it be dictatorial in nature?
Oh, and another WOW for good measure!
Still no reason for the personal stuff. Religion aside the humor was in the ethnically pure aspect of Slovakia where along with the conquests, a number of religions have flowed through during the years Today it is the last EU nation without a Mosque and may have about 10K Muslims but at times had many more. Used to have a couple hundred thousand Jews but WWII ended that sadly. A fair number did emigrate thank goodness. Good number of Rom in Slovakia too and even though Christian, they are unfortunately singled out anyway.
Slovakia is economically a pretty poor place by Western standards and except for Germany, queen of the pigs amongst the old Eastern Bloc nations GDP per capita wise. Basically political upheaval and the failure of the mines is what brought us here. Thanks to the Velvet Divorce and the Czech need for labor, the Slovak economy is bolstered by daily or weekly commutes across the border for blue collar jobs. One of the jokes was that the only thing the Revolution created was more dust because of the back up at the new Czech border on the way to work. For the most part, it's a blue collar country.
So yeah, I find the closed minded religious mindset funny in a people so diverse in background, however, like I said, "I can understand where they are coming from."
I think, for the world, the refugee crisis can only be solved by removing Assad and ISIS allowing the Syrians to return. It's not just ISIS, Assad must go too. Until then, moving across the Ocean seems highly disruptive and straddling the economically suffering EU is not the good answer given it's a huge group of people who don't want to be there and would rather be home.
Too bad an Arab nation with land could not ante up some space and allow the world to temporally shelter the refugees there while we remove Assad and kill ISIS. Given we get our act together to accomplish those goals, it might be economically prudent and less disruptive to the refugees. Just spit balling.
Well many of us disagree and we all have our strong opinions on this. However I'm sure we can all agree that we want peace to be the ultimate outcome.
Problem is, positive, that the reactions here are *precisely* what terrorists intended. Just look up the definition if you don't believe me!
Bad people should be punished, of course! Everyone will agree to that!
But what's happening here is much more frightening, the loss of common sense when people think that entire groups (refugees in this case) are all out to get us and so we must first get them. HELLOOOOOOOOO! A small percentage of that population, sure, I'll give you that, is probably bad folks. But the majority? No friggin way. If you've ever studied statistics, bell curves, std deviations and the like you'll quickly - and I do mean quickly - realize the extent of overreaction that is taking place.
I'm not worried about terrorists (they can always be dealt with), I'm worried about their success in causing fear and the absolute loss of rational thought that stems from that fear.
Yes, there are bad people out there. The worst thing we could do is allow them to succeed. Many here should take one look in the mirror and ask if your choices are being directed by the fear loosed by these bad people and if those choices play right into their hands.... The answer seems pretty clear to me.
Yes I agree, the terrorists have created shear panic, in turn many people are not thinking logically but emotionally. I admit..that my initial reaction was purely based on emotion. You made a good point.
By us reacting illogically and fighting amongst each other..we are giving the terrorists what they want and weakening our unitariness.
Just wanted to add JIT, I appreciate your perspective on different issues. You seem to always be looking outside of the box, unlike many including myself.
They also want to incite Arab hatred and an Arab uprising against the West. The best way to do that is for us to start killing innocents through carpet bombing or a long police action with boots on the ground. France needed revenge but doubt it did much. Sure, 50% of ourl planes come back with their bombs but we are being very sure to avoid the innocent. Takes longer.
Need to stay the course of financial strngulatin and enemy attrition. Perhaps imcrease the risk and bomb some more questionable targets. Must break the dark web. I am surmising thats a major weakness they exploited in this attack.
Unfortunately the best deterrent to homeland terror is defense not offense. We had weaknesses in our defense that were exploited in France. We need to find and fix. At this point the evil will always be here and I agree with jit that fear just strengthens them. Likewise wholesale war plays right into their hands creating more evil and more allies to evil. Its a longer process to surgically extract them from this earth but I think its the best course to get the job done without sacrificing another generation.
Here are some refugees in Holland that don't like their living conditions and are threatening to go back to Syria.
http://conservativetribune.com/refugees-threaten-back-syria/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=BizPacReview&utm_content=2015-11-14&utm_campaign=manualpost
Buckle up, buttercup.... video of the refugee invasion into Europe:
And make no mistake: were it not for the severe popularity of the idea, and the upcoming elections, Obama and Kerry would make this happen here in the US:
http://buzzpo.com/this-is-the-most-disturbing-muslim-refugee-video-you-will-ever-see/
The REALLY scary thing is: hypothetically, were something like this to happen in the US, it would turn into a bloody war... we have 80 million gun owners in this country, who will not hesitate to step up and protect themselves and their own when law enforcement can't. Even something as relatively small as Ferguson brought out the legal gun owners, what do you think something like this would do?
Actions have consequences. Don't kick the bull in the balls and then be surprised when he charges.
JR, did you ever admit how absurdly wrong you were to claim that 10,000 refugees arrived in the US last week? Or are you still trying to pretend you didn't say that?
I didn't claim it, I said "I THINK"... it. I was misinformed. Which in no way disreputes anything else I've said... but since that's all you got, you keep harping on it, drawing that one last desperate straw. How about moving forward with other evidence I've posted about how "well" the "refugee" influx into Europe is going?
BTW, several GOP candidates, quite a few DEMOCRATS, and 26 state governors agree with me.
Goebbels, Chamberlain, we have the guns....... come on guys, let's stick to ideas and opinions and healthy discussion and leave the rest at the curb.
The Germans suspended a soccer game over concrete threat. No arrests yet.
Russian estimate two pounds of explosives took down the plane. That's like a wine bottle full. $50M award offered and Putin vows justice as they begin more intensive bombing Syria targeting ISIS instead of Assad opponents.
Turkey is blocking NATO actions so France will probably not ask until that clears.
So now the French have found a second cell, much arms and explosives. Shortly the French President will tell us more. Like I said, "Unfortunately the best deterrent to homeland terror is defense not offense. We had weaknesses in our defense that were exploited in France. We need to find and fix." We had shared intel with the French on parts of the first cell. The French had detained the leader a couple of times before the attack --- we need to fix the failures where the detainment did not result in arrest. For the world.
Dark web warnings on encrypted cell phones came from Homeland Security/FBI since May of 2015. Government has been pursuing but up to know has not been confrontational. Congress will hopefully quickly turn up the heat at least getting Apple and others to break the encryption themselves and share intel upon request. Patriot act serves, Snowden returns, Apple scores. Not sure but many assume dark web was used in France.
The French continue to pummel mostly empty buildings with little civilian damage so far. Yet to know what the Russians are targeting. There are some reports that since ISIS hides during attacks that women are taking advantage of catching some sun without being covered. But ISIS headquarters is in a stadium filled with civilians. Doubtful they will hit that. Juxtapose this with U.S. strikes that take out ISIS leaders in their cars. And even we missed once killing 60 civilians.
Neither Russia or France has committed field soldiers as of yet.
I personally would love to see the Syrian refugees "parked" in a Muslim nation with the goal being either repatriation to Syria or immigration to other countries. For those small numbers we opt to take, the question should not be shall we let them in but can we safely let them in. It only takes two or more to wreak havoc if they are so inclined.
The current process is a 18 to 24 month vetting process. Multiple agency interrogations, a process developed and used for years with Iraqis. Currently there are 2,000 Syrians here; 50% are children and 25% are over 60. Only about 2% are men of combat age. Male/female mix is about 50/50. Right now most the immigrants are settled by volunteers with volunteer money from faith-based organizations. The downside is we know nothing about these folks; there is no record. This extends the vetting period but there is risk.
The world is moving quickly. For the world, find and fix defensive flaws learned from France. Figure out how the heck a bomb got on board in Egypt and mark certain airports as unsafe. In Syria, I still believe stay the course with intensification by taking more target risk. Convince Russia to remove Assad. If Russia decides to commit soldiers or if NATO acts, everything changes. As I have said, our issue is justifying targets under such strict rules of engagement that 50% come home with their bombs. We don't trust our foreign feet on the ground's assessment of targets and smart bombs need spotters. With Special Ops, we are intensifying our actions, and have been since France, I would gather by getting our trusted guys to spot the targets. Booyah!!!!
"what I do have are a very particular set of skills, skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you." We're coming and there's more of us now.
"no, the Syrian refugees are NOT like Jews fleeing Nazi Germany....
pundits are invoking the plight of Jewish refugees fleeing Adolf Hitler’s Germany in an effort to soften American hearts.
The first, and most obvious, difference: There was no international conspiracy of German Jews in the 1930s attempting to carry out daily attacks on civilians on several continents. No self-identifying Jews in the early 20th century were randomly massacring European citizens in magazine offices and concert halls, and there was no “Jewish State” establishing sovereignty over tens of thousands of square miles of territory, and publicly slaughtering anyone who opposed its advance. Among Syrian Muslims, there is. The vast majority of Syrian Muslims are not party to these strains of radicalism and violence, but it would be dangerous to suggest that they do not exist, or that our refugee-resettlement program need not take account of them."
Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/syrian-refugees-arent-1939s-jews
I'm not so sure we should encourage Assad's removal. Removing Saddam Hussein is what started the ISIS mess in the first place. Most of the leaders of ISIS are former Iraqi officers and intelligence agents who saw the opportunity left by the vacuum we created. Secular barbarians are always preferable to religious ones...
Anyone ever seen the movie called Munich?
Even though it focused on an event back in 1972, the message is still very important to consider.
Andy Loigu Not planning to be contributing much or anything to this thread in the future.
However, if anyone is interested in a Biblical perspective to the world's situation, feel free to email me using my envelope. The church I attend has recently has begun a study on Revelation at the Sunday service and The prophet Jeremiah Wednesday nights. May God bless you all, even my past, rather heated, debating/ discussion partners...Peace!
Spring Fever - Just curious, do people really believe that this is the "end of the world"? Or is it a coincidence that your church has begun this study?
Calico696 Again - I think we should spend the money repatriating these refugees to Syria rather than relocating them.
JR, why is it so important to you to make a distinction between Syrian civilians fleeing war and Jews fleeing war? Does that really matter? These are human beings running for their lives, true during WWII, true today.
I doubt it is a coincidence.
What is happening now has all been spoken of by the prophets and in Revelation.
In my opinion, the current world situation has most definately brought us deeper into Biblical prophecy and the " end times " scenario, if one believes in the truth of the Scriptures, which I do.
I am going to tonight's study. I think the men out number the women there. If you or you and husband, or anyone else reading this, wants to sit in on this very informal study, please email me and I will give you time and location. I will introduce myself to any new comers. It last an hour and there is no pressure to come out to our church service.
I prefer doing this privately via email, so any more questions can be addressed at that time.
Thanks for the invite Spring Fever, I appreciate it. As an Atheist, I'm not interested in Biblical prophecy. I was just curious if this was arranged because of the recent attacks. Thanks for the info and enjoy your workshop. :-)
yankeefan, you need to do more research, and stop listening to the mainstream media for your information. Watch the video I posted above. Do those looks like "poor, tired, hungry, people 'running for their lives'" to you?
While I have no doubt some of these people are indeed refugees fleeing for their own good, I also have no doubt a great many of them are not, and frankly, imo of course, we cannot take that risk when discussing these people coming onto our shores. Trojan horse.
It only took TWO to pull off the Boston Marathon bombing. We don't know how many it took to pull off the Paris attacks, but only a relative handful. Whether some of you want to believe it or not, we ARE at war- jihad has been declared on us. We must be very careful with bringing people into this country...
Which is why a Republican with a strong immigration reform policy is going to be the next president of the United States. Because Americans are DONE with insecure borders, and now add to that the threat of more terrorism on our own soil, and you've just awoken a sleeping giant. Finally.
According to this article, the number of state governors who have claimed that they will refuse to accept Syrian immigrants is now up to 30... but like I said previously, the article also notes that they have zero authority to make that claim and they likely already know this... making their remarks nothing more than pandering to potential voters, or as the author states, "bluster". Not surprised to see Christie on the list... "bluster" is his forte, lol.
If their actions help to educate more people on the issue, it's good. If public outcry continues to grow, it'll shut the program down. Which, at the point in history, is most likely a very good idea.
I'm surprised that the Native Americans don't call for all of us to be repatriated to our countries of origin with all the bloodshed we have caused them. LOL!
Oops, forgot to post the link to the article...
http://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2015/11/no-the-governors-cant-stop-syrian-migrants-000321
I'm not sure how "educational" their actions are, considering they're probably based on the same misinformation you had, i.e. the arrival of 10,000 refugees last week with the expectation of tens upon tens of thousands more in the upcoming months with very little vetting such as is happening in European border nations. The facts are far, far different and this posturing is solely to feed on the fear of the voters and to pander for votes.
I won't even hazard a guess at who is going to win the 2016 election, but I doubt that it will be a hard-line Republican. Weren't you also pretty sure that Mitt Romney was going to win in 2012? (-;
If the invasion is allowed, and we get ANY terror attacks by those who were LET in - actually- scratch that: ANY attacks on our soil AT ALL- regardless of any vetting process, a hard-line republican is exactly what's going to happen. Consider it a counter-weight to 8 years of PC liberal one-worlders lunacy that's been going on.
House Speaker Paul Ryan and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell on Tuesday called for a "pause" in the U.S. program accepting Syrian refugees after the terror attacks in Paris last week launched by ISIS, and the House will vote Thursday on legislation to mandate it.
"This is a moment where it is better to be safe than to be sorry, so we think the prudent, the responsible thing is to take a pause in this particular aspect of this refugee program in order to verify that terrorists are not trying to infiltrate the refugee population," Ryan told reporters.
"I, for one, don't feel particularly comforted by the assertion that our government can vet these refugees," McConnell said. "At the very least it strikes me that we need a pause or a moratorium because the American people are quite concerned and upset by the possibility of terrorist coming into our country through some sort of refugee program."
http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/17/politics/paul-ryan-calls-for-pause-in-refugee-program/
The Jewish experience being used to defend the Muslim experience, priceless.
"ANY attacks on our soil AT ALL"
What about attacks by right-wing nutjobs on black churches such as those that happened in Charleston and were more recently planned in Virginia?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/feds-white-supremacists-plotted-to-shoot-or-bomb-black-churches-jewish-synagogues/2015/11/10/2a0abbcc-87cf-11e5-be39-0034bb576eee_story.html
What will happen then? Hard-line Progressives get elected? Massive attacks on our civil liberties via gun control?
Personally, I have a hard time distinguishing between potential Islamofascist lunacy and your average run-of-the-mill domestic terrorist lunacy that seems to occur on at least a weekly basis. It's certainly not enough of a tangible threat to our way of life that we should lose our compassion and humanity. If we do that, the American spirit is dead and they've already won. I refuse to surrender to fear, whether it's being sold by Democrats or Republicans.
I think you'll find most Americans think we have ENOUGH to do trying to solve our own violence problems WITHOUT possibly importing more of them- and even worse ones.
Time to start taking care of US. The world is just gonna' have to step back for awhile.
Not to mention the additional financial strain the refugees (in addition to all the illegal aliens) are already putting on our system.
"Surrender to fear" .... au contraire, I say "better to be safe than sorry". And as I said, it seems the majority of Americans, quite a few democrats, a lot of republicans, and 30 state governors agree with me.
"vetting"??? It is to laugh. If the Obamacare launch is any indication of how well our government "works", well then I guess we have nothing to worry about ROFL.
"I say "better to be safe than sorry". And as I said, it seems the majority of Americans, quite a few democrats, a lot of republicans, and 30 state governors agree with me."
If there were more compelling evidence than that of you being completely and utterly wrong, I can't for the life of me imagine what it would be. (-;
Right or wrong isn't the point- what's GOING TO HAPPEN is. Whether it's right or wrong is of course a matter of opinion.
I say better safe than sorry. Deport all right-wing nut jobs to Syria. I volunteer to judge who's nuts :>)
To the purpose of discourse, the ultimate actions taken by the government isn't the point. Whether those actions are right or wrong IS the point. That the discourse is based on differing opinions is axiomatic.
I might as well throw my 2 worthless cents into the ring. I believe we need to clean up our own house before inviting any guests over.
Jazzykatt So we can't take a measly 10,000 a year that we already have waiting 18 to 24 months in overseas camps because we can't vet them. Our country will look pretty pathetic.
"So we can't take a measly 10,000 a year that we already have waiting 18 to 24 months in overseas camps because we can't vet them. Our country will look pretty pathetic."
BECAUSE WE CAN'T VET THEM, YES.
"Rather look pathetic in your eyes then have Paris 2.0."
EXACTLY.
You say "fear" I say "caution". You say "lack of compassion" I say "common damn sense".
Yes Jazzykatt , and start with a border secured first before you can straighten what is in it.
JR wrote:
"yankeefan, you need to do more research, and stop listening to the mainstream media for your information. Watch the video I posted above. Do those looks like "poor, tired, hungry, people 'running for their lives'" to you?"
I can't believe you are actually pointing to your hate video as a reference and suggest that others do more research. Your video is sick propaganda, designed and created for the sole purpose of creating fear and hatred. It's fear mongering at its very worst. And that's what you cite as a source?!
I don't usually like Jess Watters But;)
http://nation.foxnews.com/2015/11/17/jesse-watters-leaves-juan-williams-speechless-after-takedown-president-obama
I'll go to Syria - since I'm fat I need first class transport and King bed - other than that lets roll :)
Kerry says there may be a cease-fire in Syria in weeks, not months. (Cease-fire would not include ISIS.) This could be the beginning of a solution to Syria. We can hope anyway.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/11/18/not-all-heroes-human-french-police-dog-dies-raid/75979746/
http://abc7.com/news/police-dog-named-diesel-killed-in-saint-denis-raid/1089521/
http://www.tmz.com/2015/11/18/paris-terror-attacks-dog-dead/
May God bless you and keep you Officer Diesel
He handled himself with beauty & grace
and who could ever forget that beautiful face
Whether at work; or at home; whatever the test
he always worked hard; and did his best
He was a real champion; at work or at play
but his life was cut short this eventful day.
While working on the job with his partner one day
they put themselves out on a limb; out into harms way
He gave the ultimate sacrifice; he gave up his life; so someone could live
The best of his breed; as his partner and anyone would say many hearts are now broken; that he had to prove it this way
Now as the trees are blowing in the gentle breeze. the sun is shining; thru the leaves on the trees. The meadows are green; and the grass grows tall off in the distance he can see a waterfall;
As he looks over the falls; down through the creek the water flows gently; as a rabbit sneaks a peek.
Far up above; in the deep blue sky he can see the birds soar high; as they fly by
Diesel can see animals playing; at the bridge by a waterfall
chasing each other; and just having a ball.
They play all day; from morning to night there's no more rain; just warm sunlight
Off in the distance; He can hear trumpets blow then all the animals look up; and notice a bright glow. The harps would play and the angels would sing
as they know he has come home; he has earned his wings
We remember that he died; in the line of duty and is now with the Lord; sharing in heaven's beauty.
Off to the meadows now; where he can play and roam free
with an occasional rest stop; under a tall oak tree
No more bad guys to chase; or explosions to take. Lust a run through the meadow; down to the lake.
A quick splash in the water; then back to the shore then it's off to the forest; to go play some more,
This special dog is back home; up in heaven above. He is cradled in God's arm's; and covered with His love. We'll light a candle for him; in the dark of night
in loving memory of this very special knight. May you find peace and have a good night,
May God Bless you and keep you Diesel
We are going to get those refugee's whether we want them or not> one way or another >
'Christie told Fox News’ Bill O’Reilly on Tuesday that 75 Syrian refugees have been placed in New Jersey since January through nongovernmental organizations.
“Now we’re trying to find them throughout by going to the nongovernmental organizations, like Catholic Charities,” said Christie, who said it’s “incredible” that states aren’t informed.
“We want to be a humane nation but our first job is to protect the people,” Christie said.
The limits on Christie’s ability to prevent refugees from Syria from coming to New Jersey are evident in a Tuesday letter he sent to Obama.
Christie said he “will not accept any,” but beyond urging Obama to change course the governor could only direct the state Department of Human Services not to take part in resettlements and request that nongovernmental organizations notify the state of any refugees.'
Read more here: http://www.app.com/story/news/politics/new-jersey/chris-christie/2015/11/18/obama-says-christie-scared-widows-orphans/75978556/
In the meantime our children will be participating in BOMB DRILLS going forward at
Hackettstown High school per my granddaughter!
For one thing, the USA does not need to repeat past errors and commit thousands of troops in a Middle East ground war. The nation and the world would be better off if Congress took a break from partisanship and put together a legal framework for the military action that's already been underway. GOP lawmakers seem to be content to blame Obama for the fact that there is evil in the world, rather than earn their paychecks.
It's nearly impossible to prevent all violence by hate-filled sociopaths and idealogues who are willing to die (many have grown up in this country and have been recruited and brainwashed on facebook, etc.)..., just like the USA has not prevented the violence perpetuated by white Anglo Saxon sickos who shoot up churches, elementary schools, and community colleges. Telling all responsible gun owners to relinquish their guns, because of the actions of a few, makes about as much sense as restricting the flow of people to this country that's made us the "melting pot" that made America great.
Banning all refugees would be an ineffective and tragic capitulation to fear.
We need to improve border controls and vigilance, but let's not get all xenophobic here.
Anyone see the footage of the moment of silence at the turkey/Greece soccer game? Booing and chanting alluha ackbar. Maybe it's more than just the radicals that feel the way they do. Can't wait for the spin.
"Maybe it's more than just the radicals that feel the way they do. Can't wait for the spin."
this is a very good question, the fact that they were cheering in the soccer match is significant and needs to be considered. the fact that there exists many Sharia based mosques in Paris, London and Copenhagen that teach/support/encourage radical Jihad should be a wake up call to those who say just be more tolerant.
the shared values that americans hold dear; freedom of speech; freedom of religion are anathema to these radicalized groups who are actively promoting their agendas. they do not belive in freedom of religion, they want to force their version of religion on you by force, and they will use any means available to make that happen.
this mastermind's female cousin blew herself up after calling for help, this says to me that the terrorists could be men or women, correct? and in this local community in Paris there is a lot of support for these actions. that's a valid concern, is it not? what other locval muslim communites is this happening in? (not all it's true, maybe it's time for 1.4 billion Muslims who do not act this way to stand up to the estimated 100 million radical jihadists who want to change the world? maybe? you think?)
the syrian refugee crisis is real and needs to be addressed, but there is a way to be human and provide help to those in need without being blindly stupid. the tsarnaev brothers in Boston were refugees with their mother, weren't they? and they blew up the Boston marathon with pressure cookers, remember? so we need to be cautious as we give help to those in need.
so we need to be human, yes, and we need to help those who are in need, but at the same time we need to be careful that we do not put ourselves at additional risk by being blind to the reality of this movement,
be situationally aware as you go about your business this Christmas season, keep your heads up, carry something with you to defend yourself with.
"Anyone see the footage of the moment of silence at the turkey/Greece soccer game? Booing and chanting alluha ackbar. Maybe it's more than just the radicals that feel the way they do. Can't wait for the spin."
Did you know that there was a terrorist attack in Ankara last month that killed 102 people and injured 400 more? Of course you don't... it was only Muslims getting killed. Who cares? Rest assured that the people in that stadium knew about both the bombing and the lack of outpouring of international support for Turkey that came afterwards. It doesn't justify the whistling (only Americans boo, typically), but provides a little context into why the average Turk may care less about what happened to the French than the average westerner.
As for Allahu Akhbar... it means "God is great"; not much different from people yelling "praise Jesus". Would that get you lathered up too? Just because terrorists use the phrase doesn't mean that saying it indicates condoning or supporting terrorism.
Philliesman, I must have missed the thread on the Forum last month where everyone expressed their outrage at the attack and the senseless loss of human life and their support for the Turks as well as your words of sympathy for them in that thread. Can you please post a link to it for me, please? Yeah... didn't think so.
I guess we identify more with the Paris part of the world than the Turkey/Lebanon part. Our media does too which reinforces it. I'm as guilty as anyone.
In a way, it's only natural, I think. That's the way the world works.
Martha While we're at it, why not stop allowing tourists to come into the United States, despite the fact it would hurt The Donald's hotel business.
Can't believe the shallow politics going on between candidates and Obama. Obama called them on Syrian Christians, being afraid of TV moderators, orphans, women and ole folk after being lambasted during a war tragedy relentlessly. Now Ted Cruz has basically asked Obama to meet him face-to-face for "debate." "Insult me to my face." Ya Momma!
Why? Has Ted bothered to insult Obama to his face or just behind his back?
Ted wants to accept Syrian Christians only. Not sure of his test, will proper genuflecting be involved? Cruz said the refuges are 77% young men when the majority is actually female. Then he said: "I recognize that Barack Obama does not wish to defend this country." Ya Momma indeed
Ted, let's talk Ted. If you want, my email is there tp set up a personal "debate." You said your father was a rebel in Cuba throwing Molotov cocktails, running guns and living through torture. Sounds like a terrorist. He was a rebel fighting Batista, aligned with the devout Communist Fidel Castro. When he changed his mind about his future chances, he applied to University of Texas and hopped a ferry for his easy ride to opportunity leaving father, mother and family behind.
I say deport all Communist terrorists who fought for Castro and take their kids with them Ted.
Yeah, when you only accept Christian refugees, they all will act like they are Christians.
After all, all it takes to become a Christian is to see the error of your sinful ways and accept Jesus -- no certification on a sheet of paper needed.
And, only God knows who is a Christian in his or her heart.
Was there something in the news I missed about Ted Cruz being appointed by God to be judge of who is holy and who is not?
If we can't trust the TSA - Transportation SECURITY Administration- to properly vet people FOR WORKING HERE, how in the hell do you think the feds can be trusted to vet refugees?
A recent U.S. Transportation Security Administration (TSA) report found that 73 aviation workers, employed by airlines and vendors, had alleged links to terrorism.
read more:
http://www.newsweek.com/tsa-investigation-finds-73-workers-uss-terrorist-watc-341696
The vetting of those Syrians who may come to the U.S. if they pass is a much more intensive and time-consuming (18-24 months) affair, involving multiple agencies, than this TSA situation.
Hard to believe a terrorist would subject himself to this screening. There must be an easier way to come over. But sure, there are no guarantees in life about much of anything.
I find that literally unbelievable. I don't believe it, because it makes no sense... , there's no way the govt will vet Syrian (or from anywhere else) refugees MORE than people looking for employment in the AVIATION industry by the TSA. Transportation SECURITY Administration.
And if that IS indeed somehow and unbelievably true, it's just more evidence how effed up the govt/administration has become, and we need complete change in Washington.
Ian.... Im so naive..............I heard the chant "god is great" at every NFL game last week during the moment of silence. And why didnt your bleeding heart start that post last month if you were so shaken?
"....we need complete change in Washington."
Sometimes I almost hope that the people who say this sort of thing get the people they want in office so they can see how things are complicated and how many screw-ups occur no matter who is in charge.
But then I think about the disasters that may befall us. I think of the invasion of Iraq by people who thought it would be so easy, and all that has come out of it, American lives lost and lives ruined, for what? And the disorder in the region that was predicted by opponents but ignored.
RAS Gee Philliesman, seems to me I see lots of athletes pointing towards the sky and thanking someone after hitting one out or scoring a TD. Just a guess, but I think it's God. Not that God is partisan or anything...
And JR, I'd be a lot more concerned about the terrorists right here in the USA already...and they aren't all Islamic fanatics.
I guess the majority of the House thinks that the refugees are a bad idea.
http://abc7ny.com/news/despite-veto-threat-house-votes-to-curb-syrian-iraqi-refugees/1091370/
"Hard to believe a terrorist would subject himself to this screening"
They wouldn't. They pretend to be an unfortunate victim of war in their homeland. We let them in. They disappear.
It looks like the Caesars of the world are having a problem. The masses seem to be upset. Not a good situation.
The point is, Yankee fan and ianimal, that it was done during a moment of silence for the VICTIMS of the Paris attacks. It was not a "God is great" after someone scored a goal.
Instead of being quiet to respect the victims, they booed and chanted Allah Akbar. The same thing that has been shouted during the Paris Attacks by the attackers. Why are you sticking up for these actions?! If they just scored a goal, the situation would be different.
Note this article is from 2006...
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2006/09/god_is_still_great.html
"Muslims can use Allahu akbar to express general approval, or even as an exclamation of surprise. Sometimes crowds will shout the phrase as a form of applause, the way people might yell "Bravo!" at the end of a performance. The takbir often stands in for applause after a Quranic reading, since it would be inappropriate to cheer for someone who has merely recited God's words. But the phrase might just as well be shouted out at a soccer match."
So, shouting "Allahu Akhbar" at a soccer match is not an unusual occurrence. Was it poorly timed? I've already said that it was. I wonder what would be said at a football game in Philadelphia during a moment of silence for 100 dead Turkish Muslims... if anyone ever cared enough to have one, which is unlikely.
http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/11/15/green-bay-packers-aaron-rodgers-critical-fans-moment-silence
after the France attack.
"Sometimes I almost hope that the people who say this sort of thing get the people they want in office so they can see how things are complicated and how many screw-ups occur no matter who is in charge."
That's exactly what's happened for the last 8 years. (and it happens with every administration eventually, but my point being all those who thought Obama would bring America into the 21st century as this utopian wonderland... have been sold a bill of goods. And they know it now.)
My neighbor named there son Akbar years ago in late 80's. He was from the Dominican Republic , She was an American Black with 2 girls from a previous man that lost his life in the military. They went to church regularly. The girls turned him in and the house was raided and he went to jail for drugs.He escaped and never was found. We were all invited to his country. I spoke to one that did go and he said it was a big beautiful estate. You never know. He was slick and fooled me.
what the heck was the point of that story Old Gent?
I'm 1000% sure there are plenty of people in jail named jesus :)
"And booing is general approval too?"
Perhaps they were booing because they wanted the game to start. Perhaps they were booing the Greek soccer team. Turkey and Greece aren't exactly the greatest of friends historically, as anyone who has seen My Big Fat Greek Wedding can attest. But, to take the words Allahu Akbar and some boos as indisputable proof that the stadium was full of people who approved of the killing of French civilians is such an enormous leap of logic that it borders on laughable in an unfunny way.
"but my point being all those who thought Obama would bring America into the 21st century as this utopian wonderland... have been sold a bill of goods. And they know it now"
I remember Matt Damon whining about it... priceless. Although he's known it since at least 2013 (-;
http://www.politico.com/blogs/click/2013/08/matt-damon-obama-broke-up-with-me-170232
what the heck was the point of that story Old Gent? I was a strange name at the time. The point is you Never know all that's going on. We were all very friendly at the time. Today most people don't even know there neighbor.
Ian is "laughable in an unfunny way" and wouldn't know logic if he tripped over it.
OF COURSE they were just booing because they wanted the game to start. OF COURSE all the refugees are running in fear of their lives. OF COURSE no one would possibly think to infiltrate the refugees and come over to US soil to do any harm... COME ON, people, why so cynical?
Ian...........that last post by you was beyond laughable in an unfunny way. Your justification for their actions at that game are almost as absurd as that buffoon John Kerry's comments.
yankee fan..........you cant realize the difference between 17000 people chanting, and an idiotic sport-star that pretends to be religious for a second, then goes home and cheats on his wife? or beats his wife and/or kids?? buts thats a whole other topic.
Better yet, just send the whole bowl to Ian's house... or even better, the White House....
What's the difference between cheating and beating. Hmmmm......
Were all 17,000 chanting. Wow. They can't immigrate here.
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/virginia-mosque-meeting-gets-ugly-every-one-of-you-are-terrorists/
This is what happens when you let people watch too much fox news
Njlawyer Calico I hope you and many others have your bags packed since we only allow Christians into this country. I'm appalled by hearing from some of our candidates that they would only allow Christian refugees in. Are they kidding?
This is discrimination at its finest and falling to the same level as our enemy. The hypocrisy of it is mind boggling.
Either let all the refugees in (no matter their religion) or don't let any in.
If anyone is interested in learning about that propaganda hate video that JR posted....
http://www.snopes.com/2015/11/17/disturbing-muslim-refugee-video/
Good digging, Gadfly.
"the above-displayed video contains several clips unrelated to the refugee crisis in Europe."
OK, what about THE REST of the 20 minute video? What about the woman who's home was invaded?
"While the video is edited to make it seem as though all of the incidents involve refugees in Europe, that is simply not the case."
And that is just as much propaganda as you think the video is.... it's exactly like trying to declare everything I post is wrong because I got a fact (the 10,000 refugees) wrong... but what about everything else I've posted? If the video has "a few scenes" not actually taken from the refugee crisis, WHAT ABOUT THE REST OF THE SCENES?
Luckily, the American people have been sufficiently awoken to pay closer attention to this, partly due to the Paris attacks. Despite what Paul Ryan and Obama "accomplish" here, the tide has turned.... Obama has until the next election to do as much damage as possible, because it's really looking like that's the end of the progressive movement for awhile. Thank God.
A hotel in Mali under attack....3 dead, 170 hostages, 20 released because they could recite the Koran. Attackers shouting Allah Akbar. They must be just shouting this in approval according to some Hackettstown Lifers.
When you find out someone you know lies 25% of the time they speak, you figure out that you shouldn't put to much stock in anything they say. Now, I'm not saying that JR is intentionally posting lies. But I am saying that he doesn't care to separate truth from fiction before he posts.
...and Gadfly is one of those who disagrees with everything that doesn't fit her preconceived notions, even when presented with evidence.
There is evidence the refugee thing could be a problem. That's my point. Perhaps we should look before we leap. That is my point. Perhaps we shouldn't just believe what the govt tells us LOL and actually do some digging on our own to find out if our govt is CAPABLE of properly vetting all these refugees like they claim they will (so far, evidence points to the contrary).
If Bush is in power: everything he says is lies.
If Obama is in power: everything he says should be believed.
It's quite disgusting actually, your lack of objectiveness. I decried Bush on several things. But when it's a lefty in the office, they can do no wrong, or whatever wrong they do can be overlooked. Benghazi proved that to me once and for all.
And, if you have a valid argument then why embellish with untruths? Why exaggerate ? so that you can exacerbate the situation and instill fear in people so that they over react in a way that you want? All those so interested in "facts", see nothing wrong with this propaganda?
I'M not embellishing anything. I'm posting information for people to see. The video is not propaganda except to those who have already formed a finite opinion on the matter, without all the information, based on emotion or political dogma. If 5% of the video is propaganda, what is the other 95%? This isn't about politics or dogma for me, it's about safety, period. SAFETY and SECURITY. The M&Ms pic I posted sums it up quite well. The job of protecting the American people is superior to that of helping other nations. If we can do both, great- but American protection ALWAYS takes priority.
And especially after Paris, I'm happy to see most of the American people and governors agreeing with me. Even Diane Feinstein and Chris Matthews agree with me!! CHRIS MATTHEWS?!?!?! The tide has turned.
I watched the Today show for a few minutes this morning. They had a report on the young woman who blew herself up in the Paris apartment and was connected to last Friday's attacks. Friends and family as well as photos showed her to be a "party girl" who liked to drink, post naked selfies, etc. yet she was convinced by her cousin (the ringleader) to take part in that slaughter. They also talked of an 11 year old who was involved in another attack somewhere who wore a suicide vest, and other young people and women who have done the same. My concern is - how can we know who to trust? What does it take to twist someone from one end of the spectrum to the other? That is the fear and it is very real and genuine and not to be taken lightly or written off as racism (Muslims aren't a race) or xenophobia. It's unfortunate that it's come to this but how else can we rationally view this situation.
JR, this isn't a Bush vs. Obama problem, it's an AMERICAN problem. You said "It's quite disgusting actually, your lack of objectiveness" which is actually YOUR problem, as your consistent anti-government rants and propagation of right-wing scare tactics demonstrates. Any website that resonates with your paranoid world view must be telling the truth...like your previous post about the 10,000 Syrian immigrants that landed in the US last week. Sad.
Want to give ISIS a REAL recruitment opportunity? Warehouse all the immigrants in tent camps far away, with no opportunity to reach a safe haven. ISIS would thank you.
Oh, and it's not a lack of objectiveness...it's a lack of objectivity. Just saying...
yankeefan,
Well, at worst, somebody has to balance the unobjective liberal progressive one world governement view espoused by the current administration and so many on this forum...
And at worst, I'm showing the OTHER SIDE of the coin that said people don't want you to see. Providing information. Information to attempt to find the truth.
At least I'm WILLING to find the truth- 10,000 refugees didn't land and it was shown as misinformation. That's a GOOD thing. However, the TSA failed vetting? The video of the refugees in Europe? They have not been shown to be propaganda... the video has it's flaws, and finding that out is a GOOD thing. But a couple of flaws don't discredit the eyewitness reports and news reports in that video.
Show me I'm wrong, and I'll gladly admit it and be happy for being more informed than I was. Show YOU GUYS you're wrong, and .... you're still not wrong. How's that OBJECTIVITY for you?
Here is the snopes article about the video JR is referencing:
http://www.snopes.com/2015/11/17/disturbing-muslim-refugee-video/
MB As the descendant of Italian and German immigrants who came to these shores in the late 1800's seeking freedom and a new life, I am very grateful that none of the haters on this thread who would condemn an entire religion and people based on the actions of a radical minority were around then.
Especially the ones who post about "80 million registered gun owners" taking arms to protect our country if the police can't/won't. Sounds like vigilante rule and NOT the rule of law!
Hey JerryG,
Where have I condemned an entire religion or people? HINT: I haven't.
As far as "rule of law", I'm all for it. I'm also all for changing it if it doesn't suit this country. Just as gun grabbers would love to repeal the 2nd Amendment because in their opinion it's not wanted, some of us would repeal a lot of the current immigration law because it's unwanted.
Funny thing, laws- they can written, repealed, and changed. And whoever's in power does the changing.
Actually the blatant intentional lies does discredit the author and the entire tape. This was not a mistake, this was shredding the truth to forward an agenda. That's propaganda. How do you know any of it is true given his propensity for lying? Perhaps some facts are presented but not in that tape.
But when in doubt, attack the man: "unobjective liberal progressive one world governement view espoused by the current administration and so many on this forum." Liberals are not objective? One world government view many express on this board?
Come on. You got caught posting fabricated lies and now you are trying to trump up a defense.
And this liberal is all for sequestering the refugees in some Arab country with world-wide financial support until we can get them back to Syria by deposing Assad and removing ISIS with a world-wide coalition including the Russians.
Why? Certainly not because of your reasons but simply because, as I noted, "The downside is we know nothing about these folks; there is no record. This extends the vetting period but there is risk."
For Europe that risk is much larger than the U.S. because first, they don't vet well, and second, how hard is it for a terrorist to walk into Europe and a refugee and within hours, clean up, get some nice clothes, have papers, and be on the move as a European citizen or visiting worker. Europe can't watch their watch list already. Many countries have a history of not assimilating immigrants. No way can they keep up with this rising tide.
America is different. We vet, we watch, we do a much better job at assimilation. But there is increased risk when you can't see any history or records for the applicants. So I say, for Europe's sake, we need a solution closer to Syria, closer to the refugee's home with a clear path for repatriation in a short time. While they are there we can continue the U.S. vetting process lest repatriation is never going to happen.
All liberals might not think in lock step JR, I am sure that Kerry, Clinton, Obama, and Sanders have a few different views on a multitude of topics. And only conservatives see a "one world government." Why I can not fathom except to have a evil sounding name for others of different opinions.
Oh, and late 1800's??? Well, I could use the same argument the anti-gunners do, "times were different then", but instead I'll let Teddy do the talking:
We should insist that if the immigrant who comes here does in good faith become an
American and assimilates himself to us he shall be treated on an exact equality with every one else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed or birth-place or origin.
But this is predicated upon the man’s becoming in very fact an American and nothing but an American. If he tries to keep segregated with men of his own origin and separated from the rest of America, then he isn’t doing his part as an American. There can be no divided allegiance here. . . We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language, for we intend to see that the crucible turns our people out as Americans, of American nationality, and not as dwellers in a polyglot boarding-house; and we have room for but one soul loyalty, and that is loyalty to the American people.
-Teddy Roosevelt
JR, noble but hugely idealistic. Consider this- you and your family have endured incredible hardships escaping a horrific civil war. You (hopefully) make it to a safe haven. But you have little or no money, and you don't speak the language. Where will you live? Likely with relatives or with others you can communicate with. Where will you work? Again, possibly with others who speak your language who preceded you and established themselves, or more likely, menial labor at jobs no one else wants. Are you feeling assimilated yet? Getting ready to hit the Rockaway mall to do a little Christmas shopping? Sadly, our country has a history of making it very very tough to assimilate. Think the Italians, the Irish, the Chinese waves...generations of prejudice. My point is that it can take several generations for integration to occur. But hopefully it eventually does. When Teddy spoke those words it was a WASP America, and thankfully those ideas of superiority are diminishing.
"At least I'm WILLING to find the truth" -JR
no you are not, what you are willing to do is find stories that fit your agenda and post them without fact checking them. you have a long history of doing it. So while you may post actual factual information it gets lost in all the misinformation you post. Instead of trying to win any argument by posting something you saw, hear or someone forwarded to you, take time to actually see if true before posting.
remember this pic, you told us it was Trayvon Martin
Really, Jefferson Republican??
Six days ago you posted this:
"I agree, it's a multifaceted issue. But praying for the victims ain't going to stop more victims from being created. When it comes to the actual, armed threats- yes, we need to "kill 'em all."
Praying for the jews in WWII didn't stop it. Killing the Nazis did."
So posting "yes, we need to 'kill 'em all'" is NOT condemning an entire religion or people???
Okay then, how about this other posting of yours, also from six days ago when you were questioned on your prior post:
"How many? All of them. Or as many as it takes for them to be rendered harmless, or for them to surrender their jihad. Whichever comes first."
So "All of them" does NOT mean what it appears to mean???
Your blind hatred of anyone who is not like you scares me.
Gee...how surprising the guy that was the inspiration for "Happiness is a Warm Gun" read it that way.
Jambone Gee, how surprising, a personal insult attempt from yankeefan.
What's not surprising is I was easily able to apply grade school level reading comprehension to a simple sentence that JR posted.
WE = subject
KILL = verb
ARMED THREAT = object
ALL = indefinite pronoun used as a determiner for the object
Yawn...tired old stuff...guns guns guns. Don't you already have a thread where you boys can giggle about firepower?
Sure do..
Enjoy your holiday concerts/theater in the NYC area... just keep an eye on the balcony.
http://truthaboutguns-zippykid.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Paris-.jpg
good point mark - take the high ground, keep your head up and both eyes open, and be prepared, good advice for everyone i think
you guys jumping all over JR keeps you from being objective about the current threats. he is right to point that out to you all. it's past time you guys woke up and smelled the coffee
really jerryg, you used so many strawman's in your spewed retorts to JR that you failed basic reading comprehension. many of the things you throw at JR you do yourself, everyone has to be like you or they are 'one of them . . . .' ?? really? (project much??)
and you Yank - how about discussing the points that are raised instead of making fun of people?? try it once, you know, an honest open conversation of pros and cons.
is there no threat from these ISIS\Islamists ? nothing to be concerned about? really?
I didn't know that Teddy Roosevelt was a wasp, do you think that was his 'white privilege' showing in his comments? so you dismiss them out of hand without considering the content? most immigrant communities did indeed assimilate, including your family, (and mine) but in these neighborhoods in Paris that is not happening, and that give cover, comfort and succor to these radicalized jihadists, many of the locals are afraid to spek up about them because of the threat they represent. check it out, this is happening in Paris, Copenhagen, London and now Stockholm, Europe is changing rapidly, there are streets in Paris where if a woman walks around without her head covered she gets abused about it, really??
is that what they are headed for over there? restricting what women can wear? who they can walk with in public? check it out, it is happening right now in an otherwise eclectic, tolerant Europe, and it is starting to happen here in certain embedded communities. this is a trend that is growing, look around and open your eyes.
I have to say, all in all i find conservatives more open to honest debate then the entrenched libs on this site. the first move by you guys is to demean, dismiss, label and pejoratively judge those who do not walk in lock step with you. think about it please,
no wonder JIT keeps saying - "Wow!!"
Anyone that would use that picture as an argument for gun rights is beneath contempt.
Aren't you proud to see the results of your "gun free" policies? Where people have no way to defend themselves while criminals/terrorists have unfettered access to slaughter them... it was 40 minutes before police entered the building, and almost 3 hours before the terrorists were dead.
Much better to pretend it doesn't exist... that pictures of flowers and candles tell the story... that "one more law" would fix it... that a semi-transparent French color overlay on your Facebook picture will protect future victims. Right?
Hard to top the low you present, by ensuring the next group of victims is equally defenseless.
Besides, I'm late to the party... the anti-gun side already decided that showing autopsy pictures of gunshot victims is just what people need to see...
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/10/robert-farago/blood-porn-at-the-trace-and-the-washington-post/
I don't understand this. The French are a very tolerant nation. They welcomed these terrorist (not knowing who they were) with open arms. They are a gun free nation. So why would a country that is a gun free zone, all loving and accepting, why would their people be massacred? What did they do wrong, why would they be targeted?
Watch the video & let me know what you think...an eye opener to say the least. Go ask the Greeks what they think about these "refugees".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44vzMNG2fZc
RU - That's the exact same video JR posted. It's 1000% propaganda, it's produced by people with factless agendas (MB posted snopes investigation of it), and if you know anything about the refugee situation you instantly can see non-Syrian refugee clips interspersed with that video. (clips are from French natives trying to get into England via the Chunnel, from Nigeria which is an entirely different area, legal Greek immigration where the number of people coming off the ferry is supposed to scare you but they are 100% legally entering the country having been approved before they boarded, and Italian boat emergencies coming from North Africa that are not Syrian related) You've been duped.
Not to mention how much of all of this is about French victims? How many posts even remember there are victims here? "Me, me, me".
There are like 2 posts about people killed. Who knows the name of just one? When we start to concentrate on them we get our humanity back. Otherwise the rest of this is selfish crap and nothing less.
"Hackettstown Low on that one. Should be removed."
Yep... don't want anyone's utopia to be shattered by images of reality for what happens to defenseless people in gun free zones/countries.
Yet, it's OK to see pictures of mass graves, executions and heads being sawed off (look up "holocaust" on Wikipedia), because it's "history".
Snopes is a liberal couple in San Francisco...so your an idiot for believing them! What the helll was faked in the video?
if I may - lets reset - think and calm for a bit - lets post tomorrow and hopefully the hate will subside. chill - shhhhh
RU - did you read GC's entire post? He told you exactly what was faked. It was a very misleading video, intended to scare you.You fell for it.
"Should be removed." - remove yourself
gc - good points, thanks for the reminder, remember the victims and their families, work hard towards a better future,
thanks man,
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2015/11/american_killed_in_mali_siege_grew_up_in_nj_gradua.html
American killed in Mali was a Mt. Olive H.S. and Rutgers graduate. So close to home, though it happened so far. May she rest in peace.
Differences...
You may have made an impact but not for long
As our unity will strengthen despite our fears
For we will overcome because of our tears
FBI foils ISIS-related plot against Pope Francis: report
http://wgntv.com/2015/09/15/fbi-foils-isis-related-plot-against-pope-francis-report/
U.S. law enforcement thwarted plots timed to July 4
Washington (CNN)FBI Director James Comey said Thursday that the bureau thwarted ISIS terrorist plots linked to the Fourth of July holiday that were intended "to kill people in the United States."
http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/09/politics/july-4-terror-plot-law-enforcement/
Florida Man Arrested in ISIS-Inspired Backpack Nail Bomb Plot, FBI Says
Later that month, a source cooperating with the FBI helped Suarez make a video urging "Muslim brothers to buy AK's, knives and machetes and fight."
Suarez hoped to obtain a bomb that could be buried in a beach in Florida and detonated by cell phone, prosecutors said.
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isis-terror/florida-man-arrested-isis-inspired-backpack-nail-bomb-plot-fbi-n399901
JerryG,
Sorry but I no longer have time for your BS, or anyone else's. Glad to see the thread is continuing, hopefully educating people. But my mother is sick, 81, and in the ER, so my priorities preclude me from wasting my time with witty retort.
Carry on all.
I hope for a speedy recovery to get home in time for the holidays. Best luck and wishes.
best wishes for your mom JR; stay strong;
Bill Maher on terror attacks: "Wouldn't being armed at least give you a chance?"
Bill Maher responded, “Really? So if you were in a restaurant and a crazy gunman came in, you wouldn’t want to have a gun? You’d rather just be shot?”
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/donald-trump-cheering-jersey-911/story?id=35355447
Seems Trump and Brother Dog have the same distorted memory. No truth of Americans in NJ celebrating the towers coming down. Makes for an interesting urban legend but facts remain no proof of it.
I personally knew someone who's sister was friends with a family that told her not to go into the city that day, a week prior. The family was investigated, I do not know many details.
On this date in 1963 ....
nobody from any foreign country involved, as far as we know.
JR, sincere best wishes. Whatever differences we have, I'm sure the purity of the love of a son for his mother is something we can all agree on.
darwin - nothing wrong with my memory ; (or yours, as you seem to recall the same reports) there were multiple reports about it at the time, and from several sources, and no it wasn't jersey city, it was patterson, that mosque with the one eyed iman who was linked up to the first attempt on the towers in 93'. it's funny, because these reports are hard to find now, can't explain why that would be, but it was in the news right after the 9/11 attacks.
anderson cooper did have a report on about a group that still celebrates the 9/11 attacks every year.- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5BtQgTGOI4
happens out in dearborn as well - Arab American Students Were Sweaters Glorifying 9-11
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMfVccxv3yU&app=desktop
not sure why you (and many others) are stillin denial abotu this, so the jersey city mayor said it didn't happen?? and you believe what the mayor said? (ok, then) and the police in patterson 'discount' reports of celebrating. that's not an outright 'no it didn't happen' that just says that they don't know about it. (ever hear of 'plausible deniability'?) sure sounds like it. kinda of like a classic clintonism if you ask me.
and the kicker is that local religious (Muslim) leaders say it didn't happen. not exactly an unbiased source there is it?
there were multiple reports from several news organizations at the time. i (and many others) remember it well.
darwin; keep looking, the truth is out there for you;
darwin - here's one eyewitness report:
"Trump is ABSOLUTELY correct. I lived in NJ when 9/11 happened. I saw for myself the Arabs standing on the Palisades overlooking NYC and laughing and smirking as the Towers burned. Also in Patterson, NJ (large community of Arabs) they were dancing, celebrating and yelling praise for the downfall of the towers." quote is from the blaze web site (yes, even i look at this one with a jaundiced eye, but i post it for discussion)
other eyewitness reports from northjersey.com : “I was right there that day,” posted Jill Weiss. “I saw them. The school I was teaching at in at the time is right next to a mosque on West Side Avenue. Oh yes, they were high-fiving each other and cheering. Don’t dare tell me that it didn’t happen.”
Matthew Guerra posted, “Yeah, they did cheer … not thousands, but believe me it happened.”
JR, I always appreciate your boldness. You always continue to stay strong even when you are in the minority. If your mom is anything like you..she has a good chance of pulling through this.
God bless you and your mom. I will continue to pray for her.
Dansker The issue isn't whether some American Muslims might have cheered 9/11, the issue is whether Donald Trump saw thousands of Muslims cheering in Jersey City. He did not, it did not happen.
http://www.snopes.com/2015/11/22/donald-trump-cheering-911/ Of course it's Snopes, NPR, The NYT, Reuters, ABC, Atlanta Journal-Constitution, and CNN.
"anderson cooper did have a report on about a group that still celebrates the 9/11 attacks every year.- " This was, and that's the operative word, was a group of about 10 guys out of NYC, the leader a Jew who converted to Islam. In 2010, their website was closed, their leader arrested. I think three of the leaders got three years starting in 2014. Others have disavowed the organization.
The "Arab American Students Were Sweaters Glorifying 9-11" were High Schoolers trying to connote: 'You can't bring us down. We're the class of 2011'" using the number 11 looking like the trade towers. Their concept played poorly in the school that is 50% Arab American and they were censured. Glorifying 9/11 -- no. Clearly not.
BrotherDog and Donald Trump are showing the fear and hysteria that is the goal of ISIS. Be alert, be ready, be vigilant, sure. But be bat shat crazy with hate. You can have it. Trump has a reason. He is fanning Nationalism by fanning hatred first for Mexican immigrants and now Muslim. His broad brush starts with illegals and terrorists but soon covers the waterfront. And a leading portion of Republicans believes, agrees and supports.
Based on his false allegations, fear and loathing, Trump says he is considering:
requiring Muslim registration on a government database
forcing Muslims to carry faith-based identification cards
comprehensive surveillance of all Muslims
waterboarding of detainees
Trump is creating hatred of demons to win the Presidency. He is suggesting we treat one religion as evil. Americans don't do that. Hatred of Muslims outside the Arab world is exactly what ISIS wants to create sympathies for their evil cause. Many Americans are obliging. We now have armed protestors outside a Texas Mosque for example.
BrotherDog, you are entitled to your opinions yet I would ask that you take a bit more time to investigate your linkages before you post blatant lies or exaggerations. It only takes a minute more for you to ferret out the lies before you post them as truth. 10-man splinter groups that are now in jail or high school students with bad judgment who are immediately censured by Muslims is not a terror threat. Using them to fan bigoted hatred is.
JR, I was out of town the past few days, just saw your post. Best wishes for a quick recovery for your mother.
never said what you said i said, your continued use of strawman arguments is invalid,
"The issue isn't whether some American Muslims might have cheered 9/11"
well for me, yes it is, and that's all i was saying; that some amercian muslims cheered on 9/11. Darwin had issue with it, saying it didn't happen because he could find no support for it. I provided evidence that groups right here in America celebrated the 9/11 attacks on us; never defended trumps claims, but given his penchant for hyperbole, it wasn't thousands, but it did happen, even the Jersey city mayor didn't deny it happening , he just said it wasn't 'thousands'. go back and review the witness comments. they paint the picture of what really happened in paterson (and jersey city)
and you (of course) completely ignore the witness accounts of people who saw the celebrating of the twin towers attacks in their neighborhoods, which is all i was saying, that in Paterson there were celebrations of the attack on us. it happened and you know it.
are you really going to claim that you have no memory of the reports following 9/11 of multiple celebrations cheering the attack on the world trade center?
stop with your nonsense already, it is in character for you but you need to stop it already, i am not ginning up fear, just relaying what happened, (your fear reaction is on you)
open both eyes once in a while, you'll tilt less
you are dead on correct!!! I remember the cheering too as seen on TV. The newscasters said it was in Paterson. The cheering was really unique - like a rolling of the tongue. I remember the TV being on almost all day and watching the footage and responses. I remember that the rolling banners at the bottom of the newsreels became routine after 911. if you watch TV....its what is different that draws your attention.
It bothers me that Christie says he doesn't remember. Who is he pandering too??? He always used to say it like it is....He is stammering on this one.
Trump does exaggerate and may not always be correct factually...but he speaks from his gut...not what people tell him too...and corrects himself after he makes a mistake. He however remembers too what he saw on TV like the rest of us...and I believe him, as I remember it too.
Paterson was the hot bed and several of the hijackers lived there too- I think Atta was one of the leaders if I recall. The current mayor of Jersey City has turned Jersey City around- to his credit...the Jersey City of 2001 was not the same as the Jersey City of 2015. Steven Fullop is currently 38 yrs old..so in 2001 he was a 24 yr old young start. He was working at Goldman Sachs in Manhattan at the time and saw the planes go into the Towers...he wasn't officiating a public office at the time or involved with public office....Trump should have said Paterson...that was his mistake.
I am tired of political correctness and the Spin zone.....the truth may not always be what is politically correct...but it least is what it is...undisputed.
mansfield mom mansfield mom - "The newscasters said it was in Paterson. The cheering was really unique - like a rolling of the tongue." It's good you described it that way, Carson realized what was wrong and corrected his mistake that it was actually people in the middle east he remembered. Not "Paterson" but "Palestine". Specifically CNN repeatedly showed a lady in East Jerusalem.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrM0dAFsZ8k
If you're not concerned with Trump's factual correctness, then what is the concern with the truth? Trump not only has no history of going back on anything wrong, he's continuing to quote his world class memory at positively "Jersey City" and "thousands" of people. That's not the truth and there's no sign of Trump doing anything but continuing the disinformation.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/11/22/donald-trumps-outrageous-claim-that-thousands-of-new-jersey-muslims-celebrated-the-911-attacks/
There was no tv reports of the alleged celebration in Patterson. Not on a single news channel. There were videos of celebrations broadcasted but they were from the West Bank
Again you, Brother Dog and Trump are wrong. No videos of celebrations in NJ exist. Sorry.
You are so sure of yourself...and leave no room for doubt...I am amazed. Since when is the internet the only source of information? It is "a" source but so are newspapers, magazines, personal accounts, witnesses, other forms of investigative reporting. If you believe that there were no forms of solidarity with those hijackers....you would be naïve. Its amazing that you are using a pen-name as Darwin as he was the one who brought alternate creation theories such as natural selection and evolution which were heretic during his time, To leave no room for doubt is quite sad. But perhaps that is what makes you comfortable with your politically correct world.
When Trump said he heard the cheering I remembered...no different from running into an old acquaintance and talking of the old times, or that feeling you get when you run into a family member or look at an old picture....the memories come back.....I don't dwell on it as it was 14 years ago....however when he said it I remembered it too. And that is that....
no, not incorrect, not wrong at all, you are stretching statements that were never said while ignoring multiple accounts from, multiple sources. why?
darwin, again you are saying i said things that i never said and then stating i am wrong about them. this is invalid, i never claimed to have a video, i said there were celebrations reported in the news, and there were,
I (and many others) saw reports on the tv and heard reports on the radio and there were print reports in the papers, i never claimed to have a video of thousands, in fact i cannot locate a video clip of it other than the group in NY that was profiled by CNN, they are indeed american islamists celebrating and cheering for the 9/11 attacks
groups of amercian muslims celebrated in the streets of Patterson, northjersey.com has comments posted of several other eyewitnesses who saw the celebrations in both Paterson and jersey city, the washington post also has an article about this; the paterson police statements have changed over time, they are all over the map and need to be examined with a critical eye.
i can;t find a video on the web currently, that doesn't mean it didn't happen, just that a video cannot be located. that's not a proof, but it is a valid concern for sure.
and i agree with GC, i have a lot of problems with the statements coming out of the trump campaign, (and carson's as well) i am not here to defend either of them, but the modified, cleansing of what actually happened should be a problem for you as well.
truth is you guys are in denial, i am not confusing the widely circulated Palestinian west bank video with paterson nj, btw, there were celebrations in dearborn mich, London, and copenhangen also, be aware of what's happening around you. just 'allegations'? not the case, the history is what it is..
"never said what you said i said, your continued use of strawman arguments is invalid, "
Yes, straw-man indeed when one of your early posts said: ""Trump is ABSOLUTELY correct. I lived in NJ when 9/11 happened." Now, you didn't say it, but you printed it as truth and now are doubling down with the weasel worded "I provided evidence that groups right here in America celebrated the 9/11 attacks on us; never defended trumps claims, but given his penchant for hyperbole, it wasn't thousands, but it did happen, even the Jersey city mayor didn't deny it happening , he just said it wasn't 'thousands'. go back and review the witness comments. they paint the picture of what really happened in paterson (and jersey city)."
So not thousands, but you have evidence of "groups" saying even Jersey City mayor didn't deny it happening, just not in the thousands. Straw-man indeed.
The Jersey City Mayor did deny it; the Patterson Police chief denies it, the Jersey City police chief denies it. Like I said, did someone celebrate? Sure. Where they Muslim --- probably some. There is one account of a group of middle eastern teens celebrating one the Jersey shore of the Hudson. They were idiot Jewish teenagers. Should we reopen the Jewish conspiracy theory or were these just young idiots?
I am not discounting that somebody cheered, America is full of idiots. I am just saying that many of your posts include lies or exaggerations, can not be second-sourced and that you need to take the time to vet them better. The first two "news accounts" I looked at were busted with a single click. Now you have a handful of eyewitness accounts showing a handful of people celebrating. You do not offer hyperlinks so hard to fact check. Probably because most of these are
un-collaborated blog entries. Hardly second-sourced news.
"is there no threat from these ISIS\Islamists ? nothing to be concerned about? really?"
Of course there is. But let's deal from facts and not eye-witness reports in a blog. Let's attempt to vet what we post on HL rather than just throwing it against the forum wall. And let's focus on ISIS and homegrown terrorists, not Muslims.
I do recall hearing accounts not long after 9/11 of some people in Paterson cheering in the streets while the towers fell. An alumnus of my fraternity was killed and a bunch of us were helping his wife adjust by doing projects around the house that he never got around to before he died and it was a topic of conversation one afternoon in October or November of that year.
As for there not being video of it, 2001 was a much different place, technologically speaking... you actually needed a video camera handy to take videos rather than just whipping out your smart phone, so that's not really evidence of anything that no one can produce a video. But, for me, it was hearsay then and it's still hearsay now, so who really knows?
"darwin, again you are saying i said things that i never said and then stating i am wrong about them. this is invalid, i never claimed to have a video, i said there were celebrations reported in the news, and there were,"
well if it was REPORTED IN THE NEWS there would be evidence today of those reports, right? And again talk shows are not news, they are just a great place for urban legends to spread
Your words: "some right here in the USA, did you forget about the group in Paterson who were very happy we were attacked? they cheered for days, and they are still there in Paterson, NJ"
cheered for days?? yet no evidence of that exists? how is that possible?
if you want to go with people in 2015 now giving their "eye witness" accounts from 2001 go ahead, if you want to take that as fact, go ahead. I will take it as urban legend and hearsay.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/11/23/the_long_strange_history_of_the_9_11_celebrations_meme.html
Again Trump said he saw on TV thousands in NJ celebrating... ok then show us the news clip of it..... along with Obama's birth certificate :)
For what it's worth, speaking for myself I do NOT remember seeing any report of people in the U.S. celebrating the 9/11 attack. I DO remember the report from the Middle East, which I believe was from the West Bank of Palestine.
I personally witnessed dozens, not thousands, of people dancing in the streets in Passaic, NJ on the night of 9/11/2001, until the Hispanics in the area beat the crap out of them and they were dispersed.
On a lighter note, here is what the chairman of the board sang about it:
https://youtu.be/QI7skvpemwA
DannyC "yet no evidence of that exists? " there is evidence, you have chosen to ignore/discount/dismiss it, that's on you . . . . .
it was on the news; and in the papers; and on the radio
jd2 - many do recall it, are you going to dismiss them all out of hand?
"until the Hispanics in the area beat the crap out of them and they were dispersed." i worked with a guy who was part of that, he grew up there, is Hispanic; was part of a gang; and relayed it to me just like you said.
A bunch of illegal Hispanics taking the native-born Americans job of Muslim-bashing in the streets of Passaic? Outrageous. TRUMP 2016!!!!
"I personally witnessed dozens, not thousands, of people dancing in the streets in Passaic, NJ on the night of 9/11/2001,"
OK, that's a minimum of 24 people, maybe more, dancing in the street. And then a big fight. But Passaic, the city, has no Mosques and Muslims do not show up on a religious demographic other than other. Perhaps they danced over from Patterson....
I wonder if the Latinos in the fight were Muslims? Latinos represent a major segment of American Muslims representing over 10% of Muslims attending Mosques. Might have been an in-house multi-national holy war :>)
" Like I said, did someone celebrate? Sure. Where they Muslim --- probably some."
thank you for agreeing with me, finally,
" "is there no threat from these ISIS\Islamists? nothing to be concerned about? really?"
Of course there is."
thank you again for agreeing with me, finally
ianimal: Who said the Hispanics were illegal? Or that "native-born Americans" did not participate in that brief fight on that fateful night?
ianimal:
Is Donald Trump going to pay for my broken nose and two ribs from the incident, long since healed? Medicare will not, my having been too young at the time. The point is that it happened, and that there are terrorist sympathizers in our state.
There is no finally about it. I think we all know terrorism exists, ISIS and Al Qaeda supporters and wannabees in the US exist and lone wolfs in the US certainly exist. Heck we are the mass murder capitol of the world. We don't even need to go Jihad to gun down a crowd.
What I don't agree with is shoddy research and posting inaccurate links without any attempt at due diligence in order to prove a point which you throttled back on as reality set in. Nor fending off rather than fessing up.
I think when you start saying: well, those were wrong but everything else might be right what I hear is: well, if he's willing to post these fabrications why shouldn't the others be false as well.
The celebrations in NYC were a group of ten whack jobs not associated with Al Qaeda or ISIS who were put in jail. The Dearborn celebration was a couple of high school students attempting school spirit but showing bad taste and then censured by their predominately Muslim school. Thousands of celebrating Muslims became dozens, the became handfuls as self-reported on blogs and other anonymous websites and never second-sourced.
Trump will say anything to be President especially if he can tap American frustrations to ignite nationalistic hatreds by defining some outsider bogyman. In this case linking Al Qaeda terrorism with ISIS terrorism, linked by their Muslim Jihad serves his purpose. These are two groups that hate each other but Trump does not care because he needs a bogeyman and any outsider, a Mexican, a Muslim, Ran Paul, whatever, will do. He will build a wall, he will surveillance them, he will spy on their Mosques, he will register them, label them, brand them, catch them and water board them. He will flatten Syria, make Mexico pay for the wall, and sell the oil to make a profit. He will catch all the bogeymen and spank them soundly.
We need to eradicate ISIS because there are bloodthirsty savages, not because they are Muslim. Muslims supported them in the beginning to oust Assad. Muslims are not supporting them any more, the vast majority want to join us to wipe them off the planet. ISIS is killing Muslims. Muslims are helping us kill ISIS.
Stay the course, perhaps increase our risk in target selection, work with coalition to put soldiers on the field, support with special forces and other intel, oust Assad, kill ISIS, repatriate the refugees, get NATA to nation build, and move on to our next adventure. Worry about a few dancing Muslims in America. Not bloody likely.
Why would a broken nose and ribs from 15 years ago still need to be paid for? Especially if they're long since healed? Should we conclude that you were dancing in the streets since you said it was those people that the Hispanics in the area beat the crap out of?
But, to your larger point, of course there are terrorist sympathizers in our state. Arab terrorists, Israeli terrorists, home-grown terrorists. Name a person with a whacked out ideology and I can find you someone who will support and sympathize with them. There are people who have sex with dead people and live animals in our state, too. People who rape women and children. Lots of whackjobs out there...
ianimal:
Enough. You just don't get it. I "danced" with the Hispanics who kicked butt and I paid a small but painful price. I've had it with your moronic BS. Have you ever suffered broken bones or worse for anything you believed in, e.g. your country?
Moronic BS? You're the one who asked if Donald Trump was going to pay for your broken nose.
Danny in your first post you stated that you "witnessed" the celebration until the "Hispanics beat the crap out of them ".. now you are stating you were part of the butt kicking? Man this has BS written all over it. sounds like someone wants to be part of a story. how sad.
ianimal:
Answer the question: Have you ever done anything to defend our country either as a civilian or in the military, or just vented your moronic BS on this forum? The issue of active terrorists in our country, state and localities is too important to just shove off as "there are lots of whackjobs out there". Please demonstrate your credentials to deal with this problem, or just shut up.
LOL, you claim to have joined a mob who assaulted people for dancing in the street, got your ass kicked, and now claim to be some kind of anti-terrorist freedom fighter? I sucker punched a Sikh gas station attendant once. Does that count? LOL...
darwin:
I did not start the fight, the Hispanics did, but I did participate after about 15 minutes of observing it from my apartment, until I got hurt. Made some good friends in the process, though, who I am still in touch with.
ianimal
You "sucker punched a Sikh gas station attendant once."??? It does count. You should be arrested.
" I sucker punched a Sikh gas station attendant once. Does that count? "
ianimal that was YOU??? I remember that, I was watching it from my car as I was getting gas. I jumped in and kicked him when he was on ground. small world
darwin and ianimal:
You morons do back each other up, don't you? And you refuse to address the issue of dangerous terrorists in our area. Enjoy your meaningless forum, circle-jerks
I beat up lots of people at punk and hardcore shows... some might have been terrorists. Does that make me a freedom fighter like you?
ianimal:
No, that just makes you a circle-jerk. The issue still remains: What to do about dangerous terrorists in our area.
ianimal:
I'll apparently not convince you that the threat of dangerous terrorists within the US and the NJ area is real. OK. You don't matter. Others will, and we'll deal with it. Someday you might thank us for you and your family's lives, despite your stupid, blind arrogance at this moment.
"Thank us"? You think someone should thank you? Even if your story were 100% true, you admittedly watched the fight for 15 minutes until you were sure the Hispanics were going to win. Only then did you "jump in" and then apparently got your ass kicked anyway.
And don't mistake my mocking of your ridiculous story with apathy toward real terrorists; I'm fully prepared on that front. No need for you to risk your pretty little nose on my account, cupcake.
One can not BE a circle jerk. One can only participate IN a circle jerk. It's hard to form a 1man circle. :)
ianimal:
So what are your proposals for dealing with imbedded terrorists living in NJ? Or do you believe that they don't exist? Just the facts, ma'am
sitting on my hands ................................some people need to get a grip - just saying
5catmom terrorism:
"the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes."
So, if one get's violent in the course of political dissent (perhaps even getting a broken nose in the process) would that make someone a terrorist? ;-)
Just kidding of course, but really my point is that real-world reasons for dissent go beyond the simple word "terrorist" or "terrorism". The emotions triggered with those words are due to them being shoved down our throats for decades. This repetitive exposure surely elicits a specific response, does it not? Kind of like Pavlov's dog? We certainly see it *all* the time...
We need to get over this "terrorist" nonsense and start calling these people what they are - criminals. We already know how to deal with "them" (insert favorite inflammatory/derogatory term here) without all of the crap being peddled by Trump, every government official and every news outlet these days.
Some people are angry - oh my, I never would have thought it could happen! And they lash out? Goodness, no! I don't know how that could ever be the case?!?!?
lol, can we PLEASE stop using the lowest-common-denominator, grade-school-simplistic phrase "terrorists" and discuss the root of these problems without giving these people what they really want, which is chaos and disorder?
Hey, quit ribbing DannyC. He noses about kicking dancing terrorist Muslims after his panics buddies-to-be put them down to become friends he still in touch with today. The threat was real; they were celebrating, they were active terrorist sympathizers, they were gonna maybe possibly stomp NJ you blind arrogant soda jerk that don't matter. They had to be stopped.
"Answer the question: Have you ever done anything to defend our country either as a civilian or in the military"
"there are terrorist sympathizers in our state."
"I personally witnessed dozens, not thousands, of people dancing"
"I did participate after about 15 minutes of observing"
"I "danced" with the Hispanics"
"I paid a small but painful price."
" Made some good friends in the process, though, who I am still in touch with."
"Have you ever suffered broken bones or worse for anything you believed in"
Man, and someone blamed the train and the Dollar Store for the influx of Hispanics to Hackettstown. Now we know who put the invite out.
justintime:
So what should we call them - chaosists? disorderists? These people are making bombs in their garages and on their kitchen tables, even with their kids watching. They are doing this to kill us and even themselves. And they live among us. What to do?
Danny what are YOU doing about it? You keep asking everyone else what their plan is. What is yours? And what have you done to help carry out your plan?
And as ianimal stated none of us are denying there are homegrown terrorists here. We just doubt you got beat up by any of them
I don't know DannyC. I think previous generations had more turmoil in their lives than we've ever experienced, and I don't believe the word "terrorism" or "terrorist" was even in their daily vocabulary. Of course, I could be wrong, but I am old enough to remember a time when "terrorism" was an infrequently used abstraction. Now all it is is a rallying call to get the general public riled up. Heck, even Russia is using the term as an excuse to extend their military might now.
IMO, I think the word "terrorist" should be banned from our society, mostly because the word is used as the equivalent of emotional blinders: It matters not what the topic is, throw the word terrorist in the mix and BOOM - you know exactly what will come from it. Besides, I'm sure there are plenty of more accurate words to describe people who think they have a reason to cause harm, and maybe using more accurate, descriptive words will take the edge off our collective psyche. Or not.
When people are willing to give their lives for Jihad two things come to mind:
1) Very difficult to stop, if a person removes the ability for an exit plan then a lot of options are on the table. Such as in 9-11 when they flew planes into buildings. If they have to build an escape into the plans it never would have worked.
2) Why are people doing this? And I can tell you it is not because of our freedom -- that is a lie. It is because of meddling or an immigrant group wants more rights or power and does not or cannot do it in more diplomatic ways.
there is so much wrong with your shoddy analysis due to your false assumptions on what was posted and why, the bad logic used in your analysis by ignoring things said, thereby coming to wrong conclusions as a direct result of your own 'confirmation bais'
you missed the points, you miss-read or purposely ignored what was stated, you assigned quoted material to the wrong source, then complained pithily about several perceived offenses. (Wow!)
never said what you said was said, you mis-characterized in order to confirm your own beliefs. but at the end of day you failed miserably, your bad assumptions led to your invalid conclusions, but i think you already know that and went ahead with it anyways, (which is pretty bad honestly) and it is just one more example of how those on the progressive/left dismiss/denigrate/deny/ignore/obfuscate/ridicule any thing that doesn't fit their own personal meme. nice job.
but still, in your own sweet time you finally did come around to agree/acknowledge` what was posited: there were indeed celebrations after 9/11, it was reported in the news for several days post 9/11; so again i thank you for that. you're starting to come around son, that's a good thing.
and to dany c: yes! i got the same information from a guy i used to work with; he grew up in Passaic; (he was born in Puerto Rico), he is an American citizen like most of his associates at the time. he relayed to me that after 9/11 there was a fight between hispanic gangs and a bunch of american islamists in the streets of passaic. he said the gang he was with was upset at how this group was celebrating the attacks on the twin towers and that as americans they took 'issue' with that. now look, i wasn't there, so i don't know anything other than what this friend of mine said, so take it for what it is. but there you have two independent reports from different sources saying the same things.
Failed miserably except when I agreed with you. Sounds like the way you do your research which was shoddy and flawed.
As far as coming around, I have posted the points of agreement well before this thread. So much for that.
Are you now telling us DannyC made friends with gang bangers from the fight? Guess they like a guy who can take a smack down. Amazingly with all the injuries amongst what sounds like 4 dozen or more combatants, there is no press report, no police report, and just some "eyewitness" accounts. On a 50-person street fight, I am not sure there is even a blog entry. But plenty of reports that it did not happen.
http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2015/11/former_ag_on_trumps_claim_of_cheering_in_nj_on_911.html#incart_river_index
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/427556/why-facts-american-muslims-and-911-matter-jim-geraghty
Here's a news story specific to Northern NJ and posted 9/18/2001. Yes, they mention some roof top celebrations by a handful of idiots. No 50-person street fight, no latino/muslim smack down.
Tell you what. Have DannyC snap a picture of his hospital bills with the date and we can resolve the issue.
There is no issue to resolve. I made the mistake of relaying some of my personal experiences on this forum, only to be ridiculed by the self-proclaimed owners of it. But my first mistake was to get involved in the skirmish in the first place. It did happen, and no lack of press can refute that. "But I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now".
Once and for all: There is an issue of imbedded terrorist sympathizers living among us. I don't know what to do about it, and I am asking all of you intelligent people if you had any good ideas.
As usual on HL, this thread has totally jumped the shark. However, here are three politicians who you'd think would love to make this an issue...
New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie (R) on Tuesday denied businessman Donald Trump's recent claim that "thousands and thousands" of Muslims in his state celebrated the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.
"I don't recall it happening. I don't think it did," Christie, a Republican presidential hopeful, told Fox News' Bret Baier. "As I said before, if that had happened, I would have recalled it, and I don't."
Trump, the GOP front-runner, last week claimed he saw television news footage of "thousands and thousands of people in Jersey City cheering" the 2001 terrorist attacks. But there is no evidence to support that claim, and PolitiFact gave it a "Pants on Fire" rating.
Other GOP presidential contenders also have said Trump's claim is dubious.
Former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush (R) on Tuesday joined those pushing back on Trump's statement.
"I don't recall that," Bush told reporters asking about Trump's contention at a campaign stop in South Carolina. "There wasn't any cheering. That would have been on television. That would have been recorded. This is just wrong. There were -- what I remember was a lot of peaceful Muslims that were disheartened and aggrieved and sad and angry, just as every other American was as well."
Retired neurosurgeon Ben Carson on Monday initially backed Trump, saying he remembered seeing the TV footage. But later in the day, Carson's campaign walked back the statement, saying he had confused New Jersey with the Middle East.
As Thanksgiving has come upon us, let's give thanks we have the FBI and top-notch security people on the job 24/7 and hit our knees and pray that God enable them to do their jobs and keep us all safe.
Happy Thanksgiving to all who see this.
JIT, what should we call them, Radical Islamic Jihadists? The President and Hilary will not use that term. Sorry, the term "Criminals" doesn't cut it for me.
and there you go again, proving my points for me, good job, by either mis-reading (which indicates shoddy reading skills) or purposely mis-characterisng what was posted and then reacting to that (which is typically dishonest for you) you keep demonstrating what i have been maintaining all along.
if i can quote jit; "Wow!!"
maybe you need new reading glasses? on a new meme? you need something that's for sure. (and it ain't a pretty picture)
i had a friend of mine relay the account to me, i have no idea who danny c is, never met him nor do i know anything about him, but the account independently given to me by my friend matches danny c's account. go back a re-read what you missed in your angry rush to play 'tit-for-tat' which is getting old, really fast, and that's why most on here refuse to deal with you.
if i can quote jit; "Wow!!"
BD, given your standard of proof, I'm assuming that you're a firm believer in Bigfoot, the Loch Ness Monster and aliens who abduct earthlings and subject them to anal probing. There are far more than two independent accounts of each.
The Latin Kings and al Qaeda duking it out on Main Street Passaic in front of one of the country's largest Orthodox Jewish communities and there were no worldwide news stories about it?
I was sitting in a bar in Clifton and saw a picture of some guy in my 6th grade class on CNN. Megan's law had just been passed and this guy and his alcoholic old man didn't care for the fact that there was a child molester in their neighborhood. Unfortunately, they got the address wrong and kicked the crap of a completely innocent guy who picked the wrong day to sleep on a relatives couch... if THAT is news enough to make the national stage, you don't think gangbangers rumbling with Muslims would have gotten some print in the days following 9/11?
All religions can be bastardized with violence being the end-product. Defenders of religion will declare that it is the people not the religion. It is true mankind has a history of violence. I would argue that religion can be yet another initiator of violence. From a point of view that religions are just beliefs it makes sense. This is tribal behavior, "us" versus "them"...
Came across this today, thought it worth sharing:
http://www.salon.com/2015/11/17/we_created_islamic_extremism_those_blaming_islam_for_isis_would_have_supported_osama_bin_laden_in_the_80s/
One bit I particularly agree with:
“Everybody’s worried about stopping terrorism. Well, there’s a really easy way: stop participating in it.”
Not really related but an interesting tidbit:
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/statue-liberty-was-originally-muslim-woman-180957377/?no-ist
When you can't debate the facts, attack the person: "shoddy reading skills," "purposely mis-characterisng," and "typically dishonest."
"maybe you need new reading glasses? on a new meme? you need something that's for sure. (and it ain't a pretty picture)."
Like I said, your anecdotal accounts a couple of dozen celebrating Muslims attacked Latino gangbangers, one must figure had to be another couple of dozen or close to engaged those celebrating. So we have a street fight with close to 48 participants resulting in injuries like broken noses and ribs at minimum. There's no guns, no police report, no news report, no hospital reports, just some eyewitness reports. The incident supposedly happened in Passaic, a town with no Mosques and few Muslims. It is mostly Hispanic.
You have continued to throw your little personal jabs at me for presenting these facts but have yet to dispute any of them beyond reiterating your eyewitness accounts.
That's quite an article, JIT. Well worth anyone's time to read and think about. Where is the author right? Where does he go too far (if he does)?
How would the world be different if we had meddled less in the Middle East? Impossible to really know, of course. But it would be useful if more people could look at things from an alternate perspective than the usual one.
Note: my comment was about the Salon article, not the later one from JIT that snuck in in the meantime.
I think no matter what we are always going to meddle and meddling always has unintended consequences. We meddle on a social, political and economic basis by numerous religious, business, and governmental organizations. Even River Tam knew: "People don't like to be meddled with. We tell them what to do, what to think, don't run, don't walk. We're in their homes and in their heads and we haven't the right. We're meddlesome."
That said, clearly we did not cause the war on terror, that was a violent choice by bad men who evolved from fighting an armed occupation as non-terrorists to seeking armed resolution as terrorists to their grievance of Western occupation of their traditional homes in Saudi Arabia even though we were invited. With many paths to choose from, they choose to use violence against our non-violent act.
Terrorism is just guerilla warfare but on a world-wide stage waged for cause, not country, against an entire population or culture. Those without power, and now without nations, take advantage of a smaller, more open world, to bring guerilla tactics to our doorsteps targeting all citizens as combatants. Guerilla warfare has been around forever, the term meaning "little war" from the 18th century. Even our Founding Fathers waged our Revolution with such tactics, nailing some non-combatant Tories in the process.
Sun Tzu said "The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting" which is the cornerstone of guerilla warfare and terrorism.
Given the world-wide aspect of nationless men fighting for a cause against entire populations, combatants and non-combatants alike, I think a new term is warranted. Terrorism seems as good as any.
And now IMHO we have evolved again. Given the length of time the war has been waged, many terrorists have been at it a long time and many have been drawn to the 'cause' for different reasons than Osama Bin Laden's complaint. ISIS has turned into a group of non-religious brutal killers without a grand cause. Their leadership and ranks filled with people with little other intent. Cause has become less important than brutality. Even Al Qaeda thinks ISIS has lost it's religion and favors brutality as its only means and message.
Bottom line: we will always meddle. Should attempt not to and should avoid violence as the method. Likewise, anyone perpetrating violence should be brought to justice as the criminals JIT talks about. In the case of this ISIS crowd practicing terrorism, we better start stepping it up before we "meddle" our way to the next evolution installment.
How eerie silent people are when it comes to domestic terrorism not one word from people on here . Hard to believe there are so many opinions on Muslim terrorists but none on the domestic ones. Strange
Domestic terrorism has always be around as a tool for malcontent people not necessarily for religious reasons. Religious terrorists tend to be more organized. This is a whole other subject.
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