What did you think of the Republican debate tonight?
I'm pretty undecided I think many of the candidates did well; Fiorina, Huckabee, Cruz, Christie. Carson..so so, he lacks passion..needs a back bone. However, Rubio kicked butt. He put the journalists in their place when they asked him several instigating questions.
No comment on Trump and Jeb. Lol
positive CNBC Poll (voted by viewers on the website) listed the "winners" as:
1) Trump
2) Carson
3) Cruz
...and it pretty much stayed that way all night, with Carson and Cruz constantly trading 2nd & 3rd. Trump never left 1st.
Glad to see Cruz getting noticed more, and Trump at #1, despite not saying much, only shows how committed his supporters are to him.
JeffersonRepub Can say one thing, the media lost this debate. Says trump did bad with not much talk time. He only had what, 4 questions aimed at him? What a freakin setup. Im pretty sure everyone is now up to date on this liberal media mess. They suck. Rubio was right to say there a huge superpac for Hilary 100%. Trump definitely stole the show with his last statement. He had no hiccups, and little air time due to this nasty nasty media. Those hosts got chewed the hell out.
Forcefed4door Interesting...
I just saw online CNBC saying their poll has Trump at 1, and Cruz at 2nd, Rubio 3rd...
The instant poll, which ended shorty after the debate, showed the winners as in my last poll. The online poll which apparently is still going on, has Carson seriously losing ground:
Trump 47%
Cruz 19%
Rubio 14%
Carson 4%
http://www.cnbc.com/2015/10/28/vote-who-won-the-cnbc-republican-presidential-debate.html
I agree about the media, it seems the moderators spent more time trying to lay traps than asking responsible questions.
By laying back and not jumping in, Trump did better. As the leader, he sounds better when he doesn't talk. I am sure he deftly prepared to slaughter anyone coming at him. Kasich made the mistake, got skewered with pure lies, but it was brutal enough to scare everyone else off all evening. Kasich's a good man with great accomplishments but should drop at this point, he is just doing self-harm. Still waiting for the "was it two or three" hours fact fest but even if Trump is right, where does he get off lobbying with Ben Carson for the entire Republican field. I am betting every other candidate would vote for 3 hours. What's Trump's problem: low energy old man? Lack of passion? Trump once again out n out lied on a number of responses, but won't matter; his constituency won't believe the media proving he lied. Amazing. And he played dumb when questioned accurately (I believe) about previous statements or website claims. He is a politician now. Moderators should have been ready to handle that one; it's politics 101.
And if the moderator is going to attack Trump, he better get it right.
Bush better think long and hard about continuing; does he want the job? Nice job Chris to pounce on the Fantasy Football cute answer as being a stupid question to respond to. Jeb walked right into that moderators trap.
Folks better start dropping soon, it's not helping the party at this point.
strangerdanger 
Andy Loigu Cruz & Rubio finally said what ALOT of us conservatives have been saying about the MSM for YEARS. Decades, really. I'm glad someone running for elected office finally got the balls to tell the truth, and on live TV in front of millions. About damn time!
Totally agree JR. Christie also put them in their place. It was great. They were smart enough not to take the bait.
There are many things to note about the debate. However, was anyone else insulted by our governor? When asked a question he didn't like, he retorted, "Even New Jersey would find that rude!" What?? Even New Jersey??? Did he really just imply on national television that WE are all categorically RUDE? Is that showing support for our state? I know it's not difficult to misspeak, but I'm disappointed.
DD 
ollie DD I wasn't offended by Christie's remark. I took it as a joke.. since Jersey people are stereotyped as being rude, eventhough that's not true. He retorted and made his point in a sarcastic way.
Some more really funny skits tonight on SNL about it.
Hilarious about Trump's *concealed* gun under his hair!!
The Halloween segment was good too (trumpty - dumpty)
lol
happiest girl
OnTheEdge @OnTheEdge,
Thanks for posting that link. Very good editorial and totally accurate IMO.
The problem is Christie will likely never read it since he probably is more of a NY Post kind of guy.
JerryG Oh Jerry how could you say that was spot on? They singled Christie out when there's many that have left jobs unnattended and have lower polls and job ratings than Chris. Plus if Republican primary history counts, Christie is in perfect position to win. Can u say Romney?
RNC may not be "playing" with NBC anymore....
"The campaign supports the RNC’s decision to suspend the debate on February 26th due to the total lack of substance and respect exhibited during Wednesday’s night’s debate," Donald J. Trump's campaign said in a statement. "We look forward to pursuing alternatives along with the RNC to ensure candidates are given ample opportunity to outline their vision for the future of our country."
5catmom Can't wait to see how this little cancel-the-debate wrinkle plays out since if I would bet either Carson or Trump would love to pass on as many debates as they could.
Here are the questions. http://time.com/4094888/republican-debate-cnbc-questions/
There may be a better list but I don't see any "gotchas" per se but a lot of hard-hitting pointed questions targeting the specific candidate's record. Yeah, there's some hyperbole like comic book, etc. and Trump was right to push back of that but the questions still stand. Except for the Bush question which might fall in the no man's land as a potential trap which Jeb joyfully walked into by admitting he gambles and then turned around and walked back in by talking federal regulation even if he was against it). All came home to roost big time when Christie seized the opportunity to skewer the question to begin with. Of course Christie should have thought the question was important given his gambling problems in NJ but then again, he does not get home much......
Nor did I see where the Dem's got the softballs but they didn't use question/questioner push back to duck them either.
The Republicans took a different approach. They seemed primed and ready to push back on the moderators even when the lies were a flying. Don Trump set the stage kicking off the evening with "I didn't say that" (first lie of the night) pushing back on the press and starting the inevitable gang .... fight that followed. The crowd roared in approval (whatever happened to hold your applause?) It snowballed from there with a standard question response being: "oh you're rude, that's a nasty one....." with the crowed booing, cheering and jeering right along to help feed the frenzy.
Here are the lies:
http://www.factcheck.org/2015/10/factchecking-the-cnbc-debates/
The strange thing is that it does not matter that these candidates don't answer the tough questions and instead call foul and push back on the questioner. It does not matter that they not only lie, but blatantly so upon occasion even barking that the questioner is wrong after the lie is sourced. It does not matter that they do not re-think and re-position themselves on the lie and sometimes they even push ahead right over the lie. It all seems OK and right.
I don't understand this election cycle and the acceptance of some of these candidate actions by the voters. Perhaps it's just that the feeling is Hillary is lying worse, the press is lying worse, that makes it OK as long as you win.
I think the party of principles is losing moral ground.
Christie is taking care of important business while campaigning...this must be a far more rampant problem than I knew:
Gov. Chris Christie Signs Measure Banning Bestiality In New Jersey
About 10 states remain with no law against bestiality on the books.
AP
Posted: 11/10/2015 05:44 AM EST | Edited: 1 hour ago
TRENTON, N.J. (AP) — Bestiality is now officially a crime in New Jersey.
Republican Gov. Chris Christie signed the measure Monday and it goes into effect immediately.
About 10 states remain with no law against bestiality on the books.
Violators could face up to 18 months in jail and a fine of up to $10,000. And tougher penalties could be imposed if the person had a prior animal cruelty conviction or if the animal dies or is seriously injured by the act.
Law enforcement authorities had previously prosecuted such cases under the state's animal cruelty statutes. But in 2009, animal cruelty charges were dropped against a former Moorestown police officer accused of sexually molesting cows because prosecutors could not prove the animals were harmed.
yankeefan That's ok, Christie got sent back down to the kiddie table for tonight's debate anyway.
Preview sample of questions from tonight’s debate using the new format.
Mr. Trump, as the new breed of political outsider, you have called your opponents silly names, made fun of their looks, parents, manner of speech. You have called all Mexicans criminals and rapists. You have promised to build a wall and put Hillary Clinton on the other side of it. Your unpolished impractical plans and programs have been proven to be impossible to implement. Thinking about these actions and to better define what outsiders bring to the process, what is your favorite color?
Mr. Carson, you are a law and order candidate touting your lack of political experience and abundance of boot strap accomplishments as your qualifications for being President. Your rags to riches story includes beating your Mother senseless with a hammer, knifing a fellow student below the belt, and consistently lying about your credentials. Do you like puppies?
Mr. Rubio, before managing the world’s economy, you have lived the high life overspending your cash and credit accounts, running up Republican Party credit for personal needs creating late fees that put the Florida branch in debt. Your net assets were negative until your friend the publisher gave you a ridiculous advance on an unwritten book. When thinking about running the world’s economy, are you a Pisces?
Christie must have done something right. When from first to nineteenth.
http://news.yahoo.com/us-states-most-corrupt-185034125.html
Old Gent Oh, I think Christie has been great for NJ. I just don't want him anywhere near the white house. When a state is in as bad a shape as NJ is, it doesn't take much for things to start looking brighter.... but as a politician, I don't trust him, because HE'S A POLITICIAN.
GC 
So does anyone really think Trump will accept the nomination if so elected? It's pretty clear that the guy doesn't have a plan and isn't taking things seriously. Say what you will about Carson's qualifications but he is at least making an effort.
I just think Trump is going to try and find a way to weasel out of the race. Does anyone really think he's going to give up all of his positions in his various companies when he gets nominated and/or elected?
emaxxman I can't see him even getting the nomination. If that happens I will be truly shocked - the RNC wouldn't have a clue about what to do with him.
justintime We are seeing, a political revolution that I have been waiting a long time for. It's part of the change that Obama promised us.
" the RNC wouldn't have a clue about what to do with him."
They would win. That's what they would do with him.
"We are seeing, a political revolution that I have been waiting a long time for. "
I'm not ready to go that far yet... but I've become cynical. I'll believe it when I see it.
Do you really think so JR? I've been watching for a while now and I just don't see how Trump fits into any political mold. He strikes me as being hard to control, and that is something to avoid for both major (and minor, I suppose) political parties.
Certainly we'll find out sooner or later, but man, I just don't see any way at all that he will be allowed to get the nomination. And if by chance he does get it, I think the RNC would work to prevent him from actually getting elected.
"Do you really think so JR? I've been watching for a while now and I just don't see how Trump fits into any political mold." I don't want to say "Mr Smith Goes To Washington", because that's giving him more credit than he deserves... Cruz would be more of that vein.
That's EXACTLY why so many people are voting for him. He's NOT a political insider. That and he's the strongest on the immigration issue. Well, him and Cruz.
I seriously think enough people have finally realized the DC IS the problem, and ANTI-DC is what we need. Trump could be running as a democrat and, as long as he had the same platform, he'd still have the same people voting for him.
The question will be... are there enough of them? So far, polls showing the answer is a resounding YES.
And I agree- if he wins the nomination, the arrogant, ignorant, corrupt, selfish, GOP will indeed work behind the scenes to prevent him from getting elected. But they would do the same for Cruz and Paul. Everyone else on that stage has a price.
Who do you think did well tonight?
I think Fiorina is a very serious contender and it seems like she knows her stuff. On the other hand Rubio and Cruz are great debaters/speakers, however not sure if they can deliver.
Honestly..Jeb made some very good points even though he is not a great speaker.
Ben made a lot of sense and I'm glad that he has become more assertive.
Again Trump didn't have much air time and that will only help him.
Interesting view on things:
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/why-millennials-are-supporting-donald-trump-and-bernie-sanders-2015-11-09
Poll on Drudge Report shows Trump, despite his not being given much time to either prove or sabotage himself, is still bulletproof:
"Who won the debate?"
Trump 37%
Cruz 22%
Paul 16%
Rubio 12%
...surprising Carson didn't score higher... and with Cruz and Paul and #2 & #3, the most staunchly conservative of the bunch, I think that shows you what republican voters are thinking this time around.... the numbers were similar after the last debate. It's pretty clear that, as far as people who will be voting in the republican primary, they want someone not only as far away from the democrat party as you can get, but also as far away from the insider establishment GOP you can get.
And one other thing the 3 leaders from last night have in common, especially Trump & Cruz: IMMIGRATION REFORM..that does NOT INCLUDE AMNESTY. That's the #1 issue this time around.
I still haven't heard HOW they plan on kicking 11million people out of the country and how much it would cost. Makes a nice sound bite but in reality it will never happen.
Darwin As a republican sick of big government and liberal agendas, I am truly enjoying the debates and last night was impressed with mostly everyone including Christie. I looked forward to coming on the forum this morning to seeing what you all are saying! Especially Jefferson Repub and emaxxman!
mom of one 1st thing you would need to do is create a Federal ID card. Give everyone a full year to get it and we must carry it at all times. But you would still need a Constitutionally way of checking people.
Best thing to do is round up those on expired Visas. We can't even do that. But I have yet to hear what system they would put in place to kick them out once they even find the illegals
"But I have yet to hear what system they would put in place to kick them out once they even find the illegals"
So you're telling me that ICE, with an annual budget of ~$5.3 billion dollars, doesn't even have a system in place to remove illegal immigrants? What are they doing with all that money?
That's about $70 billion dollars budgeted since their inception in 2002. That would build a heck of a wall and buy a lot of bus tickets.
Mark Mc. mom of one - you'll be waiting a long time for me. I didn't watch any of the debates. I have no plans to vote for any of the GOP.
Trump is out for himself and only himself. He always has been and will be. I feel that he's been completely disingenuous throughout this campaign. If you vote for him, I hope he takes away your home using eminent domain (which he loves so dearly) for private profit.
Carson - I can't stand religious loons like him and now he's a freaking crybaby. He can tell the Jews that they should have fought harder against a superior German army but cries foul when people call him on his West Point lies? No thanks.
Fiorina was fired from HP with cause, laid off countless U.S. employees in the name of short term profits for the top execs, and then cashed in on a $40M severance package. Sorry, but no!
Cruz - don't like his social stances but do like some of his fiscal views. Just not clear on how he would accomplish them.
Christie - blowhard...goodbye.
Jindal - Has stated that the confederate flag is part of his heritage. That's all I need to know. Idiot.
Now, to be fair, while I agree most with Clinton and Sanders on their political views, I don't like either candidate. Clinton has become untrustworthy to me and Sanders just doesn't have it in my mind to be an effective President.
So, the election just sucks all around for me. I'm hoping there is an independent that arises that I can at least feel good about wasting my vote on.
"when people call him on his West Point lies?"
there were no lies about west point other than an over zealous media attack machine looking to trump up something that doesn't exist, that's the real lie, the CNN and politico stuff. i know you are are smarter than that emaxx,
BrotherDog 
Here's a pretty in-depth analysis of the whole situation that comes to the conclusion that Carson is, in fact, lying. The facts are pretty cut and dry; his "assumptions" somewhat less so, but the conclusion that no military personnel can or would offer a position at West Point is fairly sound.
My personal opinion is that he somewhat overinflated an event in order to make himself look better and sell more books. The fact that he could never bring himself to admit that is a testament to his pride and his ego. Is it the biggest scandal ever? Hardly... but it IS indicative of a character flaw.
http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a39579/ben-carson-debunked-west-point/
Where is Joe Wilson when you need him?
ianimal "So, the election just sucks all around for me. I'm hoping there is an independent that arises that I can at least feel good about wasting my vote on."
Reminds me of my vote for Gary Johnson last election.
Joe M "there were no lies about west point other than an over zealous media attack machine looking to trump up something that doesn't exist, that's the real lie, the CNN and politico stuff. i know you are are smarter than that emaxx,"
No different than the birthers and Obama. The point is, which you failed to pick up, is that he makes outrageous statements about the Jews and the Holocaust (which are then ignored by people like you who are quick to call others antisemitic simply because they don't support Israel) and then claims persecution when people start asking him about his past..a past that he's put out there as something that has given him the life experiences to be qualified for the Presidency.
Fight back harder Ben, fight back!
Rich 
Lady Jayne emaxx,
Are you talking about Carson? Making outrageous statements about jews and the holocaust? I haven't seen that...
Is this what you're referring to? Because if it is, I don't the outrage?
Republican presidential candidate Ben Carson staunchly defended his assertion that the Holocaust could have been “greatly diminished” if Jews had been armed with guns in an appearance on CBS’s Face the Nation on Sunday.
“It’s not hyperbole at all,” Carson said. “Whether it’s on our doorstep or whether it’s 50 years away, it’s still a concern and it’s something that we must guard against. That’s one of the real purposes of having a constitution. I think the founders were really quite insightful into looking at possibilities and understanding what has happened in other places and trying to put together something that would prevent that from happening here.”
Carson’s doubling down came on the heels of a comment on Thursday in an interview with CNN’s Wolf Blitzer. “I think the likelihood of Hitler being able to accomplish his goals would have been greatly diminished if the people had been armed,” Carson said. “I’m telling you there is a reason these dictatorial people take guns first.”
I think all the candidates are pretty much in full stride and looked as professional as possible. Given a draw, Trump wins and unless Carson quits, I expect anyone else quitting will cede their votes to the other lower tier candidates on life support and the positioning to remain about the same. If Carson quits, it could be a new ball game since I would not expect his votes to cede to Trump.
Not that it matters but here are the lies: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2015/11/11/fact-check-fourth-republican-debate-milwaukee/75543498/
But this is an interesting election in that media discovered lies are discounted because it's the media and they lie. Or for the Dems, it's the Republican mud machine. Ben Carson has been whining about this including saying he's getting worse treatment than anyone ever has. Can you say Whitewater, Flowers, Draft dodging, Travelgate, Troopergate, Tripp, Jones, McDougal, Foster, and the 17 different people Bill was accused of killing. Many of these occurred while he was running for his first term. Get over it Ben. We vet our Presidents to their birth.
What gets me is no one is vetting Trump and no one is debating his claims. What's wrong with these folks on stage? If this is the measure of their mettle, forget putting any of them beyond Trump on the world stage.
Someone mentioned the lunacy of Trump's forced migration of 11M illegals. Think about the ridiculous scope of implementation. At the current rate of $12K per removal that's over $130B. Even if we erased the legal requirements, and just price it at $2K a head to cover identification, capture and transportation, that's $22B. Now think about moving 11,000,000 things, we'll give him two years, 5.5M people a year. That's a lot of buses, we may need to build a new fleet. We may need to more dus driver training academies. Now think about replacing the workers. 11M while we have less than 8M unemployed. Even if you go with the high end estimation and figure some of the 11M are unemployed, you still have to get those unemployed to travel where the work is to take that gold mine of minimum wage. That means CA, TX and other border and agro labor intensive states. Even in NJ where we have 400K illegals working, 250K NJ unemployed all willing to submit to minimum wage so we need to convince 150K from out of state to come to NJ for minimum wage. Would you come to NJ for minimum wage? I mean working at Shoprite but not being able to buy food seems harsh.
Why doesn't someone on the debate stage call him on this? This is not rocket science or numeric magic. It's common sense. It's a debate right? Put on the big boy pants. (call this whine number 1 or W1)
Then there's his self-financing. Bull. He gave himself a loan which his election organization pay off at any time. Look it up, it's a 1.9M loan. Unless he forgives the loan, Candidate Don owes Corporate Don 1.9M. His self-financing rings about as true as him saying he never went bankrupt, personally that is. Don, the company's you ran went bankrupt multiple times while you ran them. Ultimately they moved you around C-level suite and then finally threw you out during a bankruptcy. You even lost when you sour-grapes sued them to take your name off the door.
W1
Until he forgives the loan it's smoke and mirrors. He's self financing and he's not. Plus he has already taken donations and used them to outspend his own financing. It's right in his election finance report. While he does not solicit donations, there's even a DONATE button on his web site. His major SuperPac disbanded at his request so he can beat on the others for having them. He has disavowed the SuperPacs but there are still 9 Trump SuperPacs on record up and running.
W1 alert.
He's a job maker, he has created millions of jobs. Trump today makes little, creates little and mostly rents his name which he has valued at 33% or 3.3B of his 10B worth. His company has about 22,000 employees, probably mostly lawyers for his legal battles. He shills everything from water to board games to steaks to whatever, mostly failures. He manages some things and owns a few more.
Maybe he's created 67K jobs while destroying many lives in the making.
http://money.cnn.com/2015/09/03/news/economy/donald-trump-jobs-created/
W1 W1 W1
On second thought, don't bring it up. It will be better as Hillary's surprise :>)
emaxx - i didn't fail to pick up anything, i got your point, but you know what? nowadays looking back at it, even the jews say they should have fought harder instead of going alongr like they did (mostly, not all and it changed progressively over the course of the war). in hindsight, things look a little different sometimes. so on this one carson is spot on, and quite correct, try and see the sense of what he is saying. BTW there are several anti-Semites who post regularly on this board and i will continue to call them out on it when i see it. Man oh man emaxx, you really got it bad for me i can tell. . . . i have respect for you and your honest opinions even if you come down on the other side of many issues differently from me, so go figure, at least you are an honest poster, not like a couple others on here who are continually dishonest in their musings, their personal histories and their opinions, you have been always consistently strong, honest and straight forward in your posts and i can appreciate and respect that, i only wish a couple of others would follow your lead, but i don't think it's gonna happen, they seem to have a more Machiavellian orientation that is not likely to change, and their oversized egos prevent clear thinking, they seem to hold a view of themselves that most normal people would say is not accurate . . . at all. . .
Yes, it is. Now I get that you, as a staunch 2A defender, would agree with the last sentence in your posted quote. I simply don't agree with how it ties into the Holocaust though (despite myself being a less-so believer in the 2A.)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/10/09/ben-carson-jewish-group-talking-foolishness-on-holocaust/
"His assertion has drawn harsh rebukes from some opinion writers and commenters on social media. They note that Carson broadly states that “German citizens were disarmed,” but the Nazis’ 1938 law specifically prohibited Jews from having guns and other weapons. They also note that he ignored the fact that many Jews did resist the Nazis."
Greenblatt summed up those arguments in his statement:
“The small number of personal firearms available to Germany’s Jews in 1938 could in no way have stopped the totalitarian power of the Nazi German state. When they had weapons, Jews could symbolically resist, as they did in the 1943 Warsaw Ghetto Uprising and elsewhere, but they could not stop the Nazi genocide machine. In short, gun control did not cause the Holocaust; Nazism and anti-Semitism did.”
-----
I found his comments after the Oregon shooting distasteful as well:
“I never saw a body with bullet holes that was more devastating than taking the right to arm ourselves away,” Mr. Carson wrote.
Tell that to the parents of the kids murdered at Sandy Hook.
-----
His comment regarding how a Muslim candidate shouldn't be put in office is also outrageous:
"I would not advocate that we put a Muslim in charge of this nation. I absolutely would not agree with that,"
--
With all of this said, I recognize we all have different views. He's entitled to his opinion and I would support his freedom to speak it freely. However, he can't run for Presidency and then cry foul when he's being called on the veracity of his qualifications (or lack thereof.)
Hopefully this thread will not turn into yet another gun debate!
Regarding Germany in the 1930's, I don't think it is useful to place some alternate reality over the actual events. Let's just learn from the actual events.
I recall SNL skits such as:
- What if Eleanor Roosevelt could fly, and
- What if Napoleon had had a B-52 at Waterloo.
jd2 Sorry, I don't see the outrage at all, at worst he's mostly correct and only partially incorrect. And obviously his statements haven't outraged anyone but those looking to be outraged, especially the media (boy did Cruz hit it out of the park on that one last night) as he continues to raise more money than anyone other than Jeb.
Personally, I'm not the biggest Carson fan, but those statements have zero influence on my opinions about him.
I'm FAR more outraged over the lies and outright deception of Benghazi than a simple holocaust statement that is mostly correct anyway.
emaxxman-While I have definitely gotten the impression from your older (and todays!) posts that you are not a Republican- I like the banter and debating going on the forum-that's what makes it interesting! lol
I have some conservative views...flat tax, support 2A albeit not as vigorously as others, anti-abortion...and I was ready to vote for McCain until he took on that wackadoodle Palin.
I just can't get past the bigoted, extremist views that the Tea Party has infected the Republican party with these days.
Prediction.
Trump serves 8 year term. Then one of trumps kids runs and continues legacy.
Well check back in 2025.
It really shouldn't be surprising that Carson's performance wasn't rated all that well. It hasn't been for most of the other debates as well. That's not how Carson has been gaining, and why he's killing Trump in Iowa. The quick sound bite and zinger is for the emotional appeals, Trump, maybe Cruz to some extent excel at that. Bush and Carson struggle in that area. Carson appeals to introspective people and has gained through on line review. It's an interesting difference between written vs. spoken word and the right vs left brain appeal. Iowa is a caucus and not just an election which may explain why Carson isn't catching on the same way in New Hampshire.
Bush? Bush is done. Toast. If Bush manages to recover in any significant way, it'll be PROOF the election is rigged lol.
"I just can't get past the bigoted, extremist views that the Tea Party has infected the Republican party with these days."
Sorry, but I have to ask what you mean by that? That's a retry harsh statement, just wondering what it is that bothers you so much? The religious aspect?
I know I relate to their monetary views but haven't spent all that much time researching the rest. This is what I found, seems pretty fundamental to me. Maybe i need to look harder because Rs and Ds are off the reservation any more...
http://www.teaparty.org/about-us/
Excellent reflections, GC. Ben Catson is a person of substance: intelligent, intellectual, measures in his words. What's the old saying about the tortoise and the hate? Steady wins the race...
Chapïn I agree with you JR concerning Carson and SD I most certainly agree with your points about Trump.
FF4Door I certainly hope your predictions are wrong.
Sad to see the so called mainstream Republicans agreeing with Hillary that creating a no fly zone in Syria makes sense. Yes let's go to war with Russia because Putin is stepping in the vacuum we helped create, and bombing the crap out of the terrorists we armed in the first place. Radical Islam is far and away the greatest threat we, and our children face, and Russia and their children face. I'm not naive about Russia's global aspirations, but Syria has been aligned with Russia since the 40's. The theory of mutually assured destruction is as valid now as it ever was. That theory doesn't apply to uncivilised fanatical lunatics waiting for the pie in the sky reward for their depravity.
Denis The Tea party has been severely weakened during the last 5 years. Interesting that this group was advocating for eliminating all foreign aid circa 2010...
iJay "The Tea party has been severely weakened during the last 5 years."
Yes, please continue thinking that.
" “I think the likelihood of Hitler being able to accomplish his goals would have been greatly diminished if the people had been armed,” Carson said. “I’m telling you there is a reason these dictatorial people take guns first.”
IMHO the feeling that "I'm FAR more outraged over the lies and outright deception of Benghazi than a simple holocaust statement that is mostly correct anyway." misses the point of how wrong Carson's statements are and the total lack of compassion in order to score some political points.
I think you have to ask yourself, if you were Jewish and someone even kind of, sort of said you could have avoided the Holocaust if only you had done something different would you be offended? How about if that something was totally wrong?
How would you feel if someone said if you had just done x, you could have avoided 9/11? Pearl Harbor wouldn't had happened if only you had.....
I believe the following countries had guns and yet that appears to not have mattered to Germany taking their freedom away: Austria, Czechoslovakia, Poland, France, Denmark, Norway, parts of Finland, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Belgium, Hungary, Romania, Greece, and Bulgaria.
And the fate of the Jews in these countries with guns was the same as those in Germany. Mostly correct? He's playing to a faction, making his point using stupid, offensive, heartless revisionist history that is blatantly wrong based on the reality of what happened across Europe and the world. Armed citizens or not, the blame resides with the Nazis and no amount of conjecture can change that.
Unlike Benghazi where after 1,200 days of study spending over $21M in taxpayer dollars where there have already been seven investigations, 39 Congressional hearings, 50 briefings, 3,000 questions, over 75,000 pages of released documents with zero findings of administrative wrongdoing or intelligence failure, much less lying... that some feel is more outrageous than Carson's statements.
Outrageous indeed. I do not believe there is even room for a comparison.
Denis, Desert Storm woke a sleeping giant up that threatens the world now. They are more committed to there cause and belief, than any other country is to theirs. Even thought they are divided, they get down on there knees together.
Here's an interesting opinion piece about Carson and scrutiny of his life's story. The title of the piece is a little misleading as to the actual content.
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/is-ben-carson-an-impostor-1298024733794358.html
Note that since all we have to go by is his life's story, it is certainly important to be looking into it.
For the little I have listened to him, he seems rather clueless. Yes, to be fair, I have listened only a little so far.
Of course you guys exaggerate... Carson said something could have been diminshed... reduced... not eliminated or completely avoided.
If you had Nazi's banging on your door I'm sure it would have been nice to have the means to fight back, even temporarily. Sure you might still die.. but maybe not that day... and I would say it's better to go out fighting for your life than herded into a cattle car to be gassed or starved to death slowly. Taking a few of the enemy with you would be a good thing in those cases.
"How would you feel if someone said if you had just done x, you could have avoided 9/11? Pearl Harbor wouldn't had happened if only you had....."
Kind of like if we only had "X" gun control law, this murder/crime wouldn't have happened?
"if you were Jewish and someone even kind of, sort of said you could have avoided the Holocaust"
But that's NOT what he said.
"Of course you guys exaggerate... Carson said something could have been diminshed... reduced... not eliminated or completely avoided."
Ah... Mark again to the rescue... because Mark has READING COMPREHENSION, not "reading into it what you want-ahension"
Well, what started the controversy is the following from Carson's book:
"German citizens were disarmed by their government in the late 1930s, and by the mid-1940s Hitler's regime had mercilessly slaughtered six million Jews and numerous others whom they considered inferior ... Through a combination of removing guns and disseminating deceitful propaganda, the Nazis were able to carry out their evil intentions with relatively little resistance."
This was what was initially pointed out as historically inaccurate, in that the Nazi government actually relaxed gun control compared to the rules previously in effect, and when it comes to Jews, few of them had guns to begin with. So as to the ACTUAL events, as opposed to hypothetical events, "removing guns" had pretty much nothing to do with the awful events that transpired.
Like Mark does not read things that are not really written. Want quotes?
The insinuation that if the populace had only stood up for their gun rights, then the Holocaust would have been diminished seems readily apparent to me in Carson's statements.
But hey, let those directly affected by this silly man and his stupid comments speak:
"“We know that the national debate over gun control is one of the most divisive issues in the land, and while Americans are entitled to have strong opinions, there is also language that is inappropriate and offensive in any such discussion,”"
"“The idea that supporters of gun control are doing something akin to what Hitler’s Germany did to strip citizens of guns in the run-up to the Second World War is historically inaccurate and offensive, especially to Holocaust survivors and their families.”
"Gun control did not cause the Holocaust; Nazism and anti-Semitism did."
It is offensive to the owners of this history, plain and simple. It is also totally historically inaccurate on so many levels including timing, scope and location. For example, most of the removals took place outside of Germany. Just a shameful discussion for Mr. Carson to entertain.
http://www.adl.org/press-center/press-releases/holocaust-nazis/adl-says-nazi-analogies-have.html#.Vhf9i_lVhBc
And there's plenty more.
like I said Mark I'm still waiting to hear the HOW Trump plans on rounding up 11million illegals and deporting them. I have no problem if they have a plan in place if they find an illegal but how are the going to find them? Oh that's right Trump is going to have a Deportation Task Force... ok so what are they going to do, kick down every door and round up the illegals onto trains? umm where have I heard that strategy before? Seems like we would need to violate a few Constitutional rights of Americans to be able to find all 11million illegals. I'm sure you're not for that right? and as the OH Governor pointed out what are we going to do if we find the parents are illegal but their kids were born here and thus are citizens? do we deport the citizen children too?
Again it makes for a nice sound bite but there is no reality to it. I'm done with sound bite presidents, we have one, I want 1 that actually has a plan.
Since this country loves acronyms so much I created one for Trumps new deportation task force:
New
American
Zone
Immigration
Services
History of the wetback program. We have no back bone in this PC country anymore.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0706/p09s01-coop.html
I don't care HOW he does it, only THAT he does it. And that goes for Cruz too.
So you would have no problem if government agents banged on your door and asked to look around to make sure no illegals were living there? No search warrant no nothing? Funny but I don't see you open to that.
"Oh that's right Trump is going to have a Deportation Task Force.."
Actually, yes... oh wait *it already exists*:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Immigration_and_Customs_Enforcement#Enforcement_and_Removal_Operations_.28ERO.29
Thanks for playing.
Carson may not know German history, but he knows there's 50 states in the US and not 57.
auntiel "Unlike Benghazi where after 1,200 days of study spending over $21M in taxpayer dollars where there have already been seven investigations, 39 Congressional hearings, 50 briefings, 3,000 questions, over 75,000 pages of released documents with zero findings of administrative wrongdoing or intelligence failure, much less lying... that some feel is more outrageous than Carson's statements".
I guess Hilary sending an e-mail that night to Chelsea and informing the Egyptian Prime Minister that it was a terrorist attack and not a spontanious event due to the film is okay with you. An outright lie she told the families of those that were killed at Dover AFB when their bodies were returned with Obama at her side. Also, to continue the lie in the press and Obama stating the same to the UN General Assembly up to two weeks after that horrible night.
I have a bigger issue with that than anything Ben Carson says in his book , which I have not read nor intnd to.
kb2755 J R, You have to remember we have a country that that elected a man that listened to a preacher that taught, hate instead of love, instead of praying for it. Then a first lady that said she hates this country. It would take quite a turn around to change that mind set to support our next leader from the Conservative Republicans. IMHO they are offering one of the sleaziest people I know of, in public life. My hope is this story Justintime posted before, if the party last that long.
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/why-millennials-are-supporting-donald-trump-and-bernie-sanders-2015-11-09
Old Gent,
I haven't "forgotten" anything. I'm eagerly waiting to see if the country has woken up or if they are going to remain ignorant and selfish enough to elect someone to continue taking the country down the self-destructive path she's on. Will they be smart enough to pull the brake, or will they pour on the coal? Guess we're going to find out, and depending on the answer, I may be going to Galt's Gulch. Which is where you have been for awhile, it sounds like to me.
J R,I have been their since 1960's. In fact, my grandson was in Chile last week on business and had his car window broke into and back pack stolen with his tablet. I guess he wasn't in Galt's Gulch.
Carson just blows, and it is not because he is black.
Trump Christie would be a power team...
This article is a good start:
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/10/ben-carson-controversial-quotes-214614
Trump would be better iJay? Come on. I know the other candidates have their flaws, but Trump is all about empowering himself not our country. It's all about him...
Side note: I do agree with you about Christie, but I disagree about Carson..he is starting to hold his own.
Carson may be better suited as the Surgeon General at this point (because of his lack of experience and assertiveness, but he knows the medical industry). As for possible strong leaders of our country.. I'm leaning towards Cruz and Christie. Still too premature to say for certain at this stage.
I think you can forget Christie. He can't even stay at the grown-ups table for the debates.
As of now (and I know there's a way to go), it's Trump, Cruz, Carson, and Rubio.
Jeb, Christie, and Kasich (wow what an ass that guy was at this last debate!) are done.
Carly? She's showing strong, but I just don't see her winning enough of the people this time around. She's been very good for the primaries tho. So happy she said what she did about Planned Parenthood & abortion at that 2nd debate- the only politician I've ever seen stand up on that issue that strongly- because it's the "3rd rail"- she has brass balls. Since then, other candidates have also come forward and agreed with her position on the issue. Good.
Rand. Personally, I really like him. But for whatever reason (maybe because he is "Ron Paul's son") he doesn't seem to be sticking either, except for this last debate.
Personally, idealistically, I like Cruz and Rand. I'll take Trump to keep Hillary out of the White House and stop illegal immigration. Carson.... nice guy, don't see him as president material. Trump jokes about it, but I agree- I don't see him as assertive or strong enough, to stand up to Putin or whatever-whoever else pops up. Rubio? Might as well elect another Bush- he's become the GOP darling after Jeb and Kasich both failed.
Actually just kidding. I will vote and make sure everyone in my family votes but WHO???
Trump might be right about illegals, check this article where illegal trash squatted in a deployed soldier's home. I am being a bit sarcastic, but this is getting out of control. Are we a country of laws and principles anymore? I argue when laws are not enforced and principles not followed the answer is no...
http://www.nj.com/bergen/index.ssf/2015/11/urine_feces_everywhere_as_illegal_immigrants_squat.html#incart_river_home
I'm starting to lean toward Rubio, from here on he could just say no comment to everything and just let the others keep saying stupid things --- kind of play prevent defense, as it were...
still a long ways to go yet, though.
Well I think it's going to be Trump, don't see anything but Trump defeating him at this point especially if the field remains so large and diverse.
Re: Hillary's lies. Yeah, trust and her lightning rod for polarization will be the weak parts. Not sure I am too worried about it measured against Trump statements and plans, or lack thereof. At best the Benghazi lies are grey but of course that won't matter to many any way. Here's pretty good timeline which when matched with the actual words certainly does not diffidently prove the smoking gun: http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2015/nov/04/marco-rubio/marco-rubio-portrays-hillary-clinton-liar-her-stat/ Does not matter to many and I doubt we will get to see the Don's private emails.
On Don's ridiculous plans this immigration thing is the top contender. Ijay concludes it's time to deport all because of one event. It's a matter of law, it's a matter of principle. I say Trump's plan is an implementation impossibility, an economic disaster, and that there's a better way. Dont' even have to debate the right and wrong to know this is a really bad investment and I think it's more unprincipled to waste my money. And IMHO the principle should not be applied across the entire group of immigrants anyway given many have only sought the same opportunity in America just like my grandparents but without documentation while providing value to our economy and way of life.
Implementation impossibility. Deporting 11 million people is like moving Ohio, our seventh largest state and then backfilling all the jobs in Ohio. Columbus, Cleveland, Cincinnati -- all empty. Toledo, Akron, Dayton and Canton --- empty too. That seems to be a big job. Many of these people have been here for years, gainfully provide for their good families, and are Americanized or well on their way. The sheer scope of moving them in one or two years is a job we have no current resources to handle. And if we ramp a work force up with new equipment to do it that's good for jobs until two years later when we fire you all and scrap all the buses. Like working a Trump Casino job.
Economic disaster: Not the price of the wall, but the price to move 11M people is staggering because they are not all in Ohio. It would be every state. Even at $2K a head that's $22B and today's price at $12k a head is $132B. The logistics of creating a workforce to identify, seize, and transport is huge. Additional means of transportation would need to be built. Heck, we would probably need new roads and expanded entry points at the border. It's like 220,000 bus trips, 110,000 per year for two years or 10,000 buses every month.
The vacant jobs left behind will cripple the economy and can not be back filled by our unemployed effectively. How do you import 150,000 minimum wage workers to NJ for example not to mention the millions needed in CA and TX. Think about it: half the stores on H-town's main street will be shuttered, including the dollar store, the police will be down-sized, and the train will be discontinued :>) The rest of us will be spending far less too since we will not have replace all those stolen goods.
That's a lot of bad money to put up for a principle that is the exact actions my family took to seize opportunity in this country, albeit with legal documentation. They were legal not because America wanted them, many places had signs telling them to go away. They were legal because America needed them to work their mines and their steel mills. We still need these undocumented workers to work our fields, fast food, and other minimum wage jobs just like my immigrant grandparents.
Not to mention the haste in a mass deportation or any job generally provides a bigger price tag. The economic carnage left behind would cripple the economy. If the population the size of Ohio vanishes, the economic engine crashes and recovery will not be overnight.
I, for one, do not want to spend my taxpayer dollars to destroy lives and the economy and would rather keep the valuable immigrants and deport the others. I think that's the better way than to attempt this fool's mission.
How do the primaries work in NJ- do you have to be a registered republican to vote in the republican primary, (and ditto democrat), or can anyone vote in any primary?
JR - You must be declared a member of the party you vote in. You cannot cross parties, and you cannot be independent.
Luckily for Trump, SD, you can't vote in the republican primary (assuming you're a registered democrat, which wouldn't be a stretch of the imagination...)
However, you could start a thread about the democratic debates, and wax philosophical about hillary vs bernie.... :)
I don't think you need to register ahead of time, but once you vote in a primary your name is tied to that party until you notify the election authorities prior to any future elections.
http://www.nj.gov/state/elections/voting-information-faq.html
Here's the answer, you can declare affiliation at the poll.
55 day advanced notice to change after that.
Rubio's can't properly manage his own family's finances, how can this clown be the president?
Cruz is looking better to me. When asked how he would handle terrorists he was right on target with his response, basically take them out immediately and use military air force (not quoting him, can't remember every thing he said). He seems to be a no nonsense type of guy. Hope I'm right, because that's exactly what we need....
I don't think Carson did well during his interview with Chris Wallace. Carson was asked that if he were president how would he handle terrorism? He didn't seem confident with his answers and kept skirting around the questions. Wallace asked him three times, "who would you call first?" Carson just didn't know how to answer the question.
I like Carson, however I've come to the conclusion that he is not cut out to run this country. Now more than ever we need a confident strong leader.
The interview airs again tonight at 6pm Fox News Channel. If anyone is interested...
positive
As I put it, Carson's a likeable, intelligent man, however there are places that need a Neurosurgeon's skills and places that need the wide variety of skills and judgements that an ER Doc or Trauma Surgeon needs. In my opinion our country must have a man or woman that has excellent skills to decide what is traumatic and not, in effect utilizing Triage techniques. Mr. Carson doesn't seem to meet those specifications in my book.
Phil D. "Carson may not know German history, but he knows there's 50 states in the US and not 57."
He just has no idea where the hell many of them are (-;
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/11/18/ben-carsons-campaign-made-a-u-s-map-and-put-a-bunch-of-states-in-the-wrong-place/
Carson is a neurosurgeon, a man of science....and yet he believes the earth is 6,000 years old. That alone disqualifies him in my mind. He's one of those smart-stupid people.
eperot Could someone please answer this question. The United States spends more money on the military then the next 10 biggest militaries combined. The United States military is the best equipped the best trained hands-down the best fighting force in the world. I have asked friends of mine who were still active military what's wrong with it. And they all get a puzzled look on her face and I tell them the reason why I'm asking is that every Republican candidate for president has said that the military is broken and we need to fix it and to a man they told me that was absolute BS
Even Obama is looking for more money than the Republican Congress is willing to spend..... On one side we spend too much. Our conventional forces are unsurpassed. On the other is the changing face of war. While we need to maintain our conventional forces which is expensive, we also need to invest in our new threat: the war on terror. Drones, robots, surveillance, cyber devices, etc. etc. represent new technologies we need to be inventing and improving.
Check out Boston Dynamics. Google is not just a search engine anymore!! http://www.bostondynamics.com/index.html
The Republicans are playing their old song to the base and their donors. Pretty sure they are thinking conventional.
Could someone please answer this question. To add to that, Now that we have a volunteer service men and women, why are they not getting the best of care with the military funds instead of a separate Department. I am sure they would take very good care of there own. I was conscripted by the goverment, they are volunteers.
As Thanksgiving approaches, it is time to look on the bright side, things we can be thankful for.
It is wonderful to fill up our cars and heat our homes, thanks to lower energy prices. Saudi Arabia is short on cash (can't say I know how that happened) so gas prices are down.
I see Christie is moving up with his poll numbers. Should not be surprising since the leaders are a reality TV star, a businesswoman who got fired, and a surgeon who should be operating on his own brain.
Anyhow, the end of the Christie administration in New Jersey is nearing. The Dark Ages of bully leadership and of, for, and by Christie cronies is nearing an end.
We've been led to believe, by people who get TV ratings by pushing shocking daily stories of threats and villains, that the world is going to Hell in a hand-basket. There were those who believed it 50 years ago, too.
Let us be thankful there are more jobs (in states not named New Jersey, anyway) and that we do not have planeloads of wounded warriors landing at the military airports every day.
I may as well be the one who brings attention to such hopeful things, because we'll never hear them from the Republican candidates for the next 12 months.
Skippy http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/47-5-million-cant-buy-these-candidates-love-least-so-n472166
Maybe I'm watching the wrong tv stations, but I can't recall seeing a single tv ad for Kasich, Bush, or Rubio.
Considering the primaries in NY, NJ and PA are all long after the Republican primary race will have been decided in all likelihood, it's not all that strange that none of the candidates are spending money locally. New York's is April 19th and is the 33rd out of the 52 (counting PR and DC) with PA being held 34th-38th on April 26th and NJ 41st-45th on June 7th, the range reflecting that several states have their primaries on that same date. I'm sure most candidates are spending the lion's share of their money on states whose primaries fall on "Super Tuesday" or earlier...
http://www.uspresidentialelectionnews.com/2016-presidential-primary-schedule-calendar/
I only caught a few snippets of it, but I believe I heard Carly Fiorina (who I generally like) admit to conspiring with the NSA tailored access operations division to divert, intercept and modify hardware destined for HP customers while she was the CEO...
Of all the things revealed about what they (the NSA) is doing, the TAO operations are some of the ones that actually seem closer to their mandate (so long as they are being practiced on foreign entities), but it still makes my hair stand up thinking about some of the stuff they are capable of...
Still seems shocking (and if true, likely a violation of her clearance or an NSL or something) that she would admit to something like that...
Brendan Well - if Trump sticks with his word about staying in the republican party, it will be Cruz against Clinton.
We'll see how the polls react in a week or so.
I think Cruz did very well, I expect his rise to continue.
I think Trump didn't do great, but his supporters are rabid, we'll see if he takes a hit in the polls. As I have said all along, if he does, I'd bet it's Trump supporters switching to Cruz. The agree on almost everything, Cruz just doesn't have the ...uh... personality.... Donald has LOL
Carson had his best night on foreign policy yet.
Rand is great- too bad he's got zero chance, for whatever reason. Personally I think he's too non-interventionist. I understand where he's coming from, but after Paris and San Bernardino, it's not gonna' fly with the American people. Christie "will start WWIII"??? Come on, Rand....
Christie had a good night, but I don't trust him as far as I could throw him. "A no-fly zone means NO FLY" - agreed. I like his foreign policy/border security, but don't trust him.
Quote of the night: "We will build a wall, and I'll get Donald Trump to pay for it" -Cruz
LOL
The rest are just same-ol-sh1t GOP ringers, including- and perhaps most of all- Rubio. And while I like what comes out of Carly's mouth, there are some things in her past that don't pass muster with me, and I don't trust her either. I'm sure a Rubio/Fiorina ticket would give the GOP wet dreams. And judging by applause, before they had even introduced themselves, the audience was stacked for Rubio.
The debates haven't really affected the polls much this entire primary campaign, except to sink Jeb. So I don't expect the polls to change much... we'll see....
Did all of your hear the part- stated by Cruz and Christie- the FBI directer admitted to congress they CANNOT VET THE REFUGEES? Christie nailed that one.
Well I don't think Fiorina has gotten enough air time in the debates, not sure why.
Interesting how Rubio kept bating Cruz.
Christie did well, heck even Ben did good.
I really hope Huckabee rises in the polls..he makes sense.
Highlight of the night is when Jeb told Trump off, couldn't help but clap.
Sorry JR, not a Trump fan. However I'm sure we can agree that we don't want Hillary.
positive,
As I've said before, Trump isn't "my guy", what I love about him is he is 100% unapologetic; he says what he thinks, not only is he not PC but says we need to get rid of PC, and most importantly THE PRESS CAN'T TOUCH HIM. They have tried to destroy him from day one and the American people no longer "listen" to the presses propaganda and political agenda. He says something "stupid" (at least considered stupid by the press), and they try to destroy him with it, and his polls go UP. It's hilarious to watch: the press has been de-clawed; at least in the republican primary they have.
And he's right on immigration/border security, which the the #1 issue facing us today imo.
This morning's Drudge Report poll (I know, some of you will criticize the source, but it's pretty much in-line with current national polls) has the order:
Trump 45%
Cruz 25% (he's gained)
PAUL 13% SURPRISE SUPRISE
RUBIO 8%
...looks to me like Cruz and Rand are making serious waves. And as I've stated, people are voting for Trump are voting AGAINST the establishment & liberal media as much as they are voting for Trump.
from CNN themselves:
Trump dominates, Cruz ascends
http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/15/politics/washington-post-abc-news-poll-republican-debate/index.html
"Despite the widespread backlash after his call to ban Muslims from entering the United States, Donald Trump has not only maintained but expanded his lead in the Republican presidential primary, according to a new national poll."
Well I guess the "backsplash" wasn't "widespread" then, huh?
Excellent analysis. But "backsplash" is for kitchens and bathrooms (I just put in two this week...what an terrible, unforgivable spelling error!). "People voting for Trump are voting AGAINST the establishment & liberal media as much as they are voting for Trump" is right on the money. At the very least, Trump has done America a great service for precipitating this change in perception and momentum.
DannyC “Trump has done America a great service for precipitating this change in perception and momentum.”
Or has the anti-establishment, anti-media mob done Trump a great service?
Four to eight of these folks should drop today for the good of the GOP.
I truly wish for a Trump nomination. It will be a certain victory for the Democrats.
From above: "Did all of your hear the part- stated by Cruz and Christie- the FBI directer admitted to congress they CANNOT VET THE REFUGEES? Christie nailed that one."
This has been rated "mostly false". Here is a link for the particulars:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/dec/15/ted-cruz/ted-cruzs-claim-head-fbi-told-congress-they-cannot/
I suppose "mostly false" can be said to be 75% false and 25% true.
A story that open minded people may find interesting ... and the GOP should consider seriously when they set their sights on a national election.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/oct/02/jewish-americans-vote-democratic?CMP=share_btn_link
everyone at the undercard debate needs to drop out now, its just embarrassing they're still running at this point. As for the Main Debate, its a shame that this is the Republican's election to lose and this is the best they can offer?
Carson has no shot
Fiorina failed at 2 companies so why would anyone want her running the country unless you are solely going for she's a woman
Jeb- if his last name wasn't Bush he would probably have a shot
Paul- comes off too weak in Defense and Foreign affairs, even though he is the most level headed, but for Republicans he is too weak
Christie- wouldn't even win his own state, And I can't believe were saying he looked the most Presidential? To me he came off as a buffoon.
Kasich- needs to stop talking with both arms waving around, he looks like he has flippers. Probably not "Republican" enough for the party although he would probably get a lot of the Independent voters if given the shot.
So that leaves Rubio, Cruz and Trump.
Rubio looks like he was plucked as a young boy to go to Republican finishing school, he seems too groom and comes off as fake.
Cruz- I am not sure how he would do in a general election, but he is probably the Republicans best shot.
Then there is Trump, who is by far the worst thing for the Republicans. His ego will get in his way of getting anything done and my biggest fear is he will pick Palin as his VP.
hopefully at the next debate we are down to 5 Candidates so we can really start to hear what they have to say instead of just getting one liners and zingers.
"Kasich- needs to stop talking with both arms waving around"
I thought he was practicing his karate chop all night.
I find it so interesting how so many (mostly anti-republican anyway) people keep saying trump is the WORST choice. Obviously the republican (and other) voters disagree wholeheartedly!!
I'm not comparing Trump to Reagan in policies, but I am comparing Trump's run to Regan's first winning run: The GOP hated him, the media hated him, they tried everything they could to destroy him, "Reagan can never win" , "he's just an ACTOR", were the mantras of the day. And he won in a landslide. Those of you who laugh at the Trump run are doing so at your own peril.
Personally, I think Trump could beat Hillary pretty easily. I think Cruz can beat Hillary, but maybe not quite as easily. Want a close race? Nominate Rubio. The GOP's fear of Trump is 2nd only to their fear of Cruz- and I'm not talking about fear of them losing- I'm talking fear of them WINNING... both the primary and the general.
Quite a shakeup this year.
Trump's ego is what will do him in. All he talks about is how he is doing in the polls and gives sound bites but none of his sound bites come with any substance
If the Republicans want to win they need to dump Trump. So far he has insulted women, blacks, Muslims, and Hispanics.... call me crazy but you kind of need those people to vote for you in a general election. Hillary vs. Trump? She'll get all those votes. Its' not 1950 anymore, you can't just attract the while Christian Male vote anymore.
That is why I say he is the worst thing for the Republicans, and trust me I want a Republican to win this election. Rubio and Cruz can at least attract minority votes, Trump is running out of minority groups to insult.
"I'm not comparing Trump to Reagan in policies, but I am comparing Trump's run to Regan's first winning run: The GOP hated him, the media hated him, they tried everything they could to destroy him, "Reagan can never win" , "he's just an ACTOR", were the mantras of the day. And he won in a landslide. Those of you who laugh at the Trump run are doing so at your own peril."
Reagan's first winning run at what? Going into the 1980 presidential election, he was the odds-on favorite to win the GOP nomination and I don't think anyone thought Jimmy Carter had a snowball's chance in hell of winning re-election. Are you talking about his run for governor in California?
Given the climate if there's an attack, Trump has a better chance of winning.
If there's an attack, ISIS gets what it wants too.
Scary thought that ISIS would probably vote for Trump.
If he drafts Cruz, he loses.
Gotta love Graham though. I was right with him until his recommendation for many boots on the ground leading to building schools and colonizing Syria. He does know his Middle East stuff though and has much first hand on the ground experience versus these arm chair wannabees. Wants to bring back the GI Bill, fair deal I say. And we would probably raise the military IQ as well.
Good to have folks like Graham and Sanders in the Senate to keep us all honest.
And what happened on the day after Reagan's inauguration? Hostages released from Iran after over a year of captivity under Carter's watch and a deadly botched rescue attempt. Courage and toughness, or at least the perception of it, works in foreign policy, irrespective of electoral details.
It's a dubious claim to say that Reagan was responsible for the hostages' release. For example, here's what Wikipedia says about the release:
"In September of 1980, the military of Iraq invaded Iran, marking the beginning of the Iran-Iraq War. These events led the Iranian government to enter negotiations with the U.S., with Algeria acting as mediator. The hostages were formally released into United States custody the day after the signing of the Algiers Accords, just minutes after the new American president, Ronald Reagan, was sworn into office."
Hard to say much for sure, admittedly.
Ian, AFTER Reagan GOT the nomination, yes. I'm talking about the primary process- the GOP and press worked against him getting the nomination, and the media coverage along the way was similar to Trump's now (and the voter's response was also similar to Trump's now)
It was the perception of Reagan as a man they could not mess with that may have caused the Iranians to turn on a dime, not discounting their second front with Iraq.
Reagan came within a whisker of winning the Republican nomination over Gerald Ford in 1976. He was the front-runner to win the Republication nomination the entire time in 1980. George Bush was his only real opposition and it was over rather quickly. Jimmy Carter had a more difficult time securing his own party's nomination over Ted Kennedy. I think I was all of eight years old at the time; how old were you? Is this something you personally remember or revisionist history you've been reading on right-wing websites?
Wow, Ian ate his bowl of jerk-off this morning I see.
I've been studying politics for 25 years. I don't have to "personally remember" something for it to have happened. I don't "personally remember" WWII, but I'm pretty sure it happened. And Because I've gotten my information from history sources in no way invalidates what I know about it.
And as far as "right wing websites", I've been a fan of Reagan and politics since BEFORE THE INTERNET, so...no.
Danny C, you couldn't be more wrong about the hostage release. The Iranians HATED Jimmy Carter and wanted him to have no lasting legacy with the hostage release, even though he worked tirelessly to get them freed. Khomeini's government had already decided there was nothing more to gain from holding the hostages and economic sanctions were making it difficult for the Iranians to straighten out their own economy, so they decided to let the hostages go minutes after Reagan was inaugurated, thereby thumbing their noses at Carter and throwing the "credit" to Reagan. (Who would go on to end up selling the Iranians weapons during the Iran-Contra affair). Don't think it was just some dick-swagger that Reagan carried that scared the Iranians into releasing the hostages.
I was 30 years old when I voted for Ronald Reagan ...
and Trump is no Reagan.
None of these buffoons who are running right now even approach the kind of respect Reagan earned from both Republicans and Democrats back in the day.
Reagan had qualities that united our country. These clowns are doing their best to divide it even worse than it already is .... yeesh.
DannyC - It had more to do with paying back Iran $4 billion and opening up a non-stop spigot of arms shipments to Tehran. At least according to Iranian sources, they were ready to do the release before the election. But Reagan's negotiators that agreed to the deal said it was all bets off if the hostages were released before hand.
The move was not so positive in the end. Not only for arming Iran, but when you get a $4 billion reward, hostage taking becomes very, very popular. And the payouts kept on going. That's not exactly in keeping with the hard line perception.
ianimal:
I have voted since 1969, a veteran, 67 years old, and lived through much of what you called "revisionist history". How old are you and what are your credentials? Sick and tired of your nasty personal attacks.
My post wasn't addressed to you, DannyC. You just happened to post between the time that I read JR's post and responded to it. I should not have assumed that it would be next in line and should have clearly identified who I was speaking to. Sorry for that...
That said, I fail to see a "personal attack" in what I wrote... I have no idea how old JR is and was just trying to gain context, as "political history" is a lot more biased and source-dependent than other types of history. He has a father who was a pilot in WWII, so he might be your age.. or he might be a lot younger, I have no idea. There weren't any "tea leaves" in the "bowl of jerkoff" I had for breakfast, lol.
wow Danny your reading comprehension is really off if you thought iamimal was responding to you
ianimal:
Ships passing in the night...fine.
Now let's get down to business and figure out how to improve our children's and grandchildren's lives by paying close attention to the current political situation. It's important, so keep it civil for everyone, and please pass this on to others who refer to a "bowl of jerkoff". Thanks.
"I've been studying politics for 25 years. I don't have to "personally remember" something for it to have happened."
Must be some study.
I have moments like that but I don't often admit it to others :>)
I've been accused of pulling things out of context but JR appears to write things out of context to begin with. Of course I can't personally remember what I just studied.... :>)
If this is the best the Republican Party has to offer say hello to Pres. Hillary Clinton. I even see that there is a committee forming to see whether or not Ted Cruz. Gave away classified homeland security information at the debate last night and your front runner just how stupid can you be. He has alienated nearly all minority groups and a Republican cannot when the White House on the white vote alone. And Gov. Krispy Kreme needs to stop talking about leadership this kind of talk coming from a man who allegedly didn't know what his hand picked staffers were doing in his office what a joke and national embarrassment these people are. So yes start saying it now so you get used to it president Hillary Clinton
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/12/15/republican-debate-grades-trump-actually-won-this-time/
per breitbart trump won.Trump is the opposite of Fiorina. He's a terrible debater (which he acknowledged after) but has the highest poll numbers. Rubio seems like he memorizes different sentences on every topic and then strings them together in different combinations to make it sound like he has an impressive grasp on an issue.
also relevant
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/17/us/politics/who-won-the-republican-debate-commentators-weigh-in.html?hp=&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=b-lede-package-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news
"“Chris Christie won big, Ted Cruz won big. They were the winners of this debate.” — Frank Luntz, a prominent Republican pollster"
If hillary gets elected, then this country is officially broken forever. What a shame.
An interesting view on Trump. I am afraid it not to far from a possibility,
http://www.usmessageboard.com/threads/bill-bennett-they-will-kill-trump-before-they-let-him-be-a-president.457721/
Old Gent, you lost me at: "William J. Bennett is one of America's most important, influential and respected voices on cultural, political, and education issues."
I can't think of a person on this planet who would hold that opinion, aside from old Billy himself, lol.
ianimal --
regardless of what old gent said, the truth is that trump -- regardless of the reason -- will never be president of this country.
Amen.
Do you see into the future, "never" is a pretty powerful word? I'll take Trump over Rubio, Cruz, Bush, Clinton, or Sanders any day...
"I can't think of a person on this planet who would hold that opinion, aside from old Billy himself, lol."
Of course not, because you're you. I don't think we've actually heard your opinion on which republican candidate you think would be the right one? If any? We've seen you ridicule a lot of other people's opinions (your specialty) but we haven't actually gotten yours, I don't think?
Some of you seem to think some of us are comparing Trump the man to Reagan the man- no one has done that. Nor have we compared their policies. I have only compared his popularity with the people/unpopularity with the party & press to Reagan.
Besides, none of you libs like Reagan anyway, so any criticism you may have regarding a comparison is irrelevant. Frankly, if you're not voting in the republican primary your voice is irrelevant. Come back and talk to us after the primaries, if Trump becomes the nominee.
JR, I can't say that I recall ridiculing anyone's opinions regarding any of the candidates, but feel free to point out examples. As for who I think is the "right" choice, it depends on what you mean. If you mean whose views align most closely with my own, then it's Rand Paul. If you mean who do I think has the best chance to win in a general election, I would have to say Rubio. Trump/Cruz will get the support of the extreme right wing of the party and since they seem to be driving the bus these days, likely the GOP nomination, but I really don't think either is mainstream enough to win the presidency. They're both way too polarizing. For as many people who are gung ho about them, there are more who can't stand them.
JR wrote: "Frankly, if you're not voting in the republican primary your voice is irrelevant. Come back and talk to us after the primaries, if Trump becomes the nominee."
This is absurd. And I have to say that it's pretty funny coming from someone who bashes Clinton in every third post he writes.
Gadfly The local RINO comes out swinging.
http://www.nj.com/opinion/index.ssf/2015/12/whitman_compares_trump_to_hitler_moran.html#incart_river_index
I think when it comes to fear and loathing fueling rabid nationalism with callous candidates fanning those fires by targeting boogeymen and scapegoats for all of our evils, promising world war, and a return to our national greatness of the past now lost, we have a number of examples of guys we would have never thought would rule a country and did. WWII was the result.
Amazingly they all had bad hair.
Gadfly,
Clinton? You mean Hillary? My opinion on her in the primaries IS irrelevant. I still have an opinion. I never said you can't have an opinion, just that it's irrelevant.
In the general election, we'll get back to trading punches.
So as JR pointed out, many of our opinions are irrelevant if we don't vote in the primary. Makes me wonder if perhaps we can have some fun. How about all of us unaffiliated voters go vote in the Republican primary this time around? And maybe some of you "libs" too could change to unaffiliated and then vote as a Republican. You can always change back to what you want after you vote. We used to have lots of fun with this when I lived in New Hampshire. It's kind of a quadrennial hobby up there. The big question is whom to vote for!
RAD What's the difference between a Republican and a canoe?
Sometimes a canoe will tip.
Cruz interview on Fox, caught in a lie on his immigration statements...pretty bad when even FAUX NEWS trips you up...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=j09QK15G2Q4
Ebenezer Scrooge dropped out.
"Are there no prisons? No poorhouses?" ... that statement didn't go over real well with the holidays coming up, big drop in the polls LOL
SD As you probably realized, I have been exposing my political views long, long, before it became a pallor game like it is now. People of faith in God through Jesus, are not upset and depending on Caesar to save them. Caesar people are loosing faith in Caesar and are in discontent just as in the time that Rome fell. The Ledger has an article today that said, if all the people in drug aid in NJ were in one city it would be the 4th largest city in NJ. Thats some analogy of people having no love of life and looking. My job is to serve God and give them hope. It's no different all over the world. This country was special at one time.
I few weeks ago I went to a Diner for breakfast at a Diner I don't go to very often . I was at a table facing an old gent in the next table. He had a Navy hat on. He was bantering with the waitress. When he got up to leave he stopped at my table and said The Second World War. I said no Korea and, some times I wonder if it was worth it. He said yea,I had 28 years in the Navy and they gave away our Constitution and freedom, to the free loaders, and went on his way.
Well I suggest that you not expose yourself views in public :<)
Nationalism and "socialism" as most like to term it for social programs like "drug aid" are two very different things.
The Star Ledger story I saw was titled: "Welcome to Herointown, New Jersey's fourth largest city." This is hardly "drug aid" and I am not sure which Caesar you want to lay the blame for this at the feet off. Fat Caesar or skinny Caesar? Was there another story?
Yet I am sure there are Christians on either heroin or Medicaid/Medicare. And many are very good folks. Some have lost their way.
Thanks for your service and your buddy's. Korea sound very cold and I wonder if it was worth it too. When I researched it I am still flummoxed as to our reasons for entry and in shock over the amount of chemical warfare we rained down upon them. Today we still have not figured out how to get our boys home from there.
Can you imagine what it was like coming back from Vietnam? Now Trump says that Vietnam joins China, Japan and Mexico in "eating our lunch" economically. Vietnam is China's China, having lower labor rates, with the same communist-ruled internal economy, dealing successfully in a free market international economy. Like the old song said, "What are we fighting for? I don't give a damn, my next stop is Vietnam".
"and its 5, 6, 7, open up the pearly gates. Well, there ain't no reason to wonder why. Whoopie, we're all gonna die."
Well, Jesus said, basically, what you do to the least of my brothers, you do unto me.
How we respond to that, is up to each of us in whatever way we understand it. Certainly, there are Christians in all the different political parties, some trying to put a life of bad decisions behind them, all of us with different experiences that have shaped what we are to this point. All people are a work in progress, that's why The Lord hasn't taken us yet, He thinks we still can do something good down here.
Happy holidays to all, should I decide to stay away from this thread for awhile ... for mental health reasons(-;
SD I cant find the original article I was referring to, but is was only about the number being treated in each city of the state. This was update 12 hours later to the present story dhttp://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2015/12/herointown_nj_the_states_heroin_crisis_in_10_graph.html
story.
No matter where in the world Christians live you have to live by the rules of Caesar, just as Jesus did. In order to survive you take advantage of his offerings.
"Well I suggest that you not expose yourself views in public"
I have been doing it for 65 years. Most have put up with me, now they are joining me.
Merry Christmas, "Andy Loigu" and "Old Gent'. God rest ye merry gentlemen, let nothing you dismay.
"Sometimes a canoe will tip"
As does Guam! If you want to play the duopoly game (my guy good, your guy bad), then you have to admit that Democrats aren't much better - case in point Hank Johnson ;-)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=cesSRfXqS1Q
Anyone else see the meet the press and george Stephanopoulos trump interviews today? He made mince meat out of those liberal blood suckers. He's on fire for sure.
Love to get some opinions on Cruz's new campaign ad. My mom and daughter thought it was creative, I on the other hand thought it was done in poor taste.
I don't know..it just rubbed me the wrong way.
I dunno about this, I guess we're all nuts... Check out the debate polls from last night. http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2016/01/14/post-gop-debate-open-discussion-thread/#comments
Debate polls from last night ("who won the debate") won't be as telling as the national polls over the next couple weeks.... I didn't bother watching, I have all the information I need. I grew tired of the planted audiences and GOP-written attack questions. The whole thing borders on propaganda. Luckily, the voters see through it.
But we knew the GOP would never give up the Bush/Rubio ship.... and now Nikki Haley is supposed to help???? LOL- after what she said about conservatives and the future of the republican party, that's not going to help.... not when the 2 front runners are Trump & Cruz. Trump's overwhelming voter support is what will get him a win, not any "help" from the GOP. They hate Trump and are terrified of Cruz. Both of which are a GOOD thing.
That link could have been written by Karl Rove and Reince Priebus.
I wouldn't trust any of those polls Forcefed4door. The Drudge Poll plus several other polls alowed me to vote several times on their site! A couple polls were more honest and only allowed one vote. We will have to wait for the Primaries for more accurate results.
Spring Fever "The Drudge Poll plus several other polls alowed me to vote several times"
That more closely mimics the Democrat voting method .
hahaha, demonizing Democrats coming from the great gerrymandering party of 2012 so far dropping $30M on project Redmap to skew results away from the popular vote. Why worry about a few double votes when you can tilt the table towards your unpopular vote to popular by redistricting. Good luck with that in 2016.
And yes, both sides do this but recently it's been all red.
I think IMO Trump is the inevitable nominee at this time with the convention being his to win or lose. Probably not able to sabotage himself no matter what he does. Sad that all those party conservatives had to splinter their own mainstream vote. The party made many mistakes doing itself in; it will be a different party going forward. I am sure most here would say for the better.
Try as they might, no one in this last debate scored any real points even with turning up the anger to full volume. In my book, nothing really changed except Trump has gotten much more polished both on stage and off.
If Sanders opposes, Trump wins in my guesstimation. Democratic centrists, Clintonian Democrats will probable even lean in Trump's direction if Sanders gets the nod. If Clinton, it will be interesting and depending on a number of world factors like terrorism from now till vote time, economy, etc. Disruptions benefit Trump. It will also depend on the post convention rhetoric which will be divisive with clear differences and probably decided not by messages and plans but by world events, message missteps or both. It will be a test to see who can rattle who. Mistakes will matter.
July can't come too soon, let's get on with the rattling.
As opposed to the exclusionary redistricting methodology favored by the Republicans?
I find it amusing that Fiorina seems focused on Hillary while she's getting blasted in the polls for the GOP nomination. Trump and Cruz, as leaders in the race, logically are also trying to make themselves look better to the general voting population. Fiorina's lack of focus is exactly how she (mis)managed HP.
Ah, all the wannabee's are tilting at windmills trying to make and spend their money, not go broke, and maybe leverage into a Trump spot or a next campaign. A real disservice to the party but I like it :>) I think Ben's already cash strapped and last night didn't help him at all although he wasted his time with some of the best one liners.
Why doesn't Rafael go full Anglo and change his name to Ted Cruise? Will any birthers vote for him?
Don't drink the cool-aid the media is serving. Trump stands by his statements regardless of how bold they are or how it reflects on the polls. That is a sign of strength. He says what everyone else believes but are too weak to say. He tells it like it is and knows how to utilize his resources to get things done. That is why he's dominating the polls.. I believe he will be the next President.
If you want to question someone ... It seems Hilary could serve time for what she 'allegedly' did and is being investigated for. IMO, She shouldn't even be allowed to run ...
The answer Donald Trump gave regarding NY values was amazing. He shut Cruz up quick. I support Trump but wish he would filter his comments. I don't mean change his opinion or his feelings but rather the way he gives them. I believe he truly loves this country and doesn't like the direction we have gone for some time now. We need someone who will put us back on top, in the eyes of the world and frankly I don't see that in any of the other candidates.
justwondering " He says what everyone else believes but are too weak to say."
Sure...if everyone else is a misogynistic racist. He doesn't speak for me and if you believe some polls, he doesn't speak for at least 61% of the population either.
" We need someone who will put us back on top, in the eyes of the world and frankly I don't see that in any of the other candidates."
It's really hard to imagine Trump doing anything that might put him or our nation on top in the eyes of the world. I'm pretty sure the rest of the world thinks Trump is a complete joke.
Well, Obama IS a joke, can't get much worse than that.
And as I've said repeatedly- for better or worse, I think it's FANTASTIC that (if Trump is elected President) that the people will elect who THEY want, instead of who they are convinced to want by the mainstream media and political parties.
We are sick and tired of being treated like THEY know better than US. Like the people are too stupid to take care of themselves. Too stupid to make decisions for their own lives. We are tired of being condescended to and patronized.
It has been a complete joy watching the GOP, Democrat Party, other republican candidates, and most of all the media try again and again and again to sink Trump- and fail again and again and again.
Trump is a joke.
He claims to support the Constitution when he feeds the fear of any restriction to what people call their "Second Amendment rights" while he wants to go against the First Amendment by barring people of one particular religion from entering the US for any reason.
Like that other idiot, Chris Christie, he tramples on the First Amendment rights of people who try to speak out against his candidacy by telling them to shut up and/or ridiculing them for their opinions. Not who I'd want dealing with foreign leaders.
He wants to send 11 million illegals back to their countries of origin but can't say how. Is he planning to rent 220,000 fifty-passenger buses, or just have one bus make 220,000 trips?
He wants to build a 1,900 mile wall completely across the US-Mexico border but claims he'll get Mexico to pay for it.
He's going to fix the economy (how???), and he's such an expert on the economy and business that he's declared bankruptcy multiple times.
All Trump is doing is the same as any politician -- he's picked up on the unreasonable fears of the far right and saying what he thinks the people want to hear in order to win the nomination. Trump as the Republican candidate is a scary thought. Trump in the White House is scary.
Sad to say, I don't think there is any candidate of either party who I'd vote FOR for president. I fear that in November I'll once again be voting for the candidate I dislike the least.
"I fear that in November I'll once again be voting for the candidate I dislike the least."
I'll never do that again. Let it burn.
"I fear that in November I'll once again be voting for the candidate I dislike the least."
That's a statement I've heard over and over again in my lifetime by a great many folks. Surely that must reflect a sort of dysfunction that collectively people can't put their fingers on?
"All Trump is doing is the same as any politician -- he's picked up on the unreasonable fears of the far right and saying what he thinks the people want to hear"
Again, spot on IMO but should not be limited to only Trump. He's just verbalizing the angst that many feel and offering to step in and act. The real question we need to ask is will his actions make the underlying problems better or worse? The same question could/should be asked of any of the candidates.
The answer depends on what each of us feels is the "problem" to be dealt with. Long term readers here know that IMO most of the "problems" we concern ourselves with are nothing but symptoms of the underlying economic and governmental systems that control our society.
Unrestrained debt-based monetary expansion (aka monetary inflation, not price inflation) by the Federal Reserve and US Treasury, for instance, allows for "wealth" creation through debt and not by productivity. If the system is designed so that debt is a *requirement* in order for our fiat money to even exist then it's hard to argue that the negative effects of that system can be solved by means other than fixing the system itself.
Yet what do the politicians want to do? More debt, of course. How else can they promise free college tuition, promise to build a wall to keep other out (and us in!), promise to give us better jobs by raising minimum wages, promise "help" people who are in debt themselves and cannot afford to pay back their debt (student loans for example).
And when discussing debt in terms of our monetary system we can't just look at national debt, but at *all* US dollar denominated debt: personal, business, government, international. In 2008 debt was necessarily reduced in the private sector, but since the survival of our debt-based monetary system depends on ever-increasing debt to maintain (and expand) the quantity of money in existence, those who run the system did the only thing they could: take on the role of debt creators. So the system survived, but the burden of taking on the system-required debt fell where? Ultimately, who is it that bares the brunt of keeping the economic system running? Generically the "tax payer", which means all of us, collectively, through taxation to support the will-never-stop-expanding debt that is required for the system to survive.
So back to the politicians and what we regularly ask of them: Lower taxes for us individually, more stuff from the government, and higher taxes from those who have more than us. We have asked for, and gotten, quite a bit in the past, and are still asking for more. Looking at past promises that require *future* sources of money, documented as unfunded liabilities by the Federal Reserve, already come to about $382,000/ person, or nearly $1,000,000 per household. Money that necessarily has to come from some form of taxation, from the people. And if money exists via creating debt - the way our system is designed - then there is no doubt how the money needed will come into existence: more debt.
But if creating debt is continually needed for money to even exist, why is it that sooooooo much of that debt-created money is concentrated in the upper 1% of our population (with a lot of the debt used to create that money shifted to the tax payer via bailouts in 2008)? That's another systemic problem that won't be solved by the simplistic "solution" of just stealing it back through taxation...
Yes Maureen, this time around Trump has never wavered even when caught in a lie or acting with a total lack of decency. Is standing by untrue or hateful statements a singe of strength? Is never changing your mind somehow Presidential? History says no, but not to worry. Trump changes his mind all the time, just not in this election cycle.
Since 2012 Trump has wavered mightily on numerous issues and plans. And always in the flavor of the far right and those frustrated with the system, his core political supporting base. 2012 Donald Trump would seem a NY liberal to his current constituency.
Lies: Trump trumps them all: http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/
Now maybe I am drinking the Kool-Aid served up by the leftist mainstream media, but judge for yourself on the facts. He lies. And when he gets backed up, he attacks based on race, looks, disabilities, social, political, and monetary standing. There are examples of each. Perhaps this is fodder for an angry constituency but IMHO it is not Presidential.
I did enjoy JR’s “We are sick and tired of being treated like THEY know better than US” since I sincerely hope they do know better than US. Isn’t that one of the main reasons they get the job? What made me really laugh was JR thinking Don Trump is different in this regard. Oh, yeah, that’s right, he be speaking right to JR. Wharton MBA wannabee Trump billionaire and JR are bros. They get together on weekends and make off-color jokes about those who have contrasting views. It’s an act Dude and Trump is very good at it.
I grant you he is speaking to you. He is angry like you are. And he is saying much about how it should be. What is missing is how we get from the tough talk to tangible results. The sparse plans that he has laid out are unworkable, expensive adding to the deficit, or both.
11 million deportees in one or two years --- how much money? Who fills the job vacancies? Mexico pays for the wall? Whack China with a HUGE import levy to make them act right (which you will pay for Chinese goods) and then tell them to clean up North Korea, charge US off-shore manufacturers 35% tax on imports (which you will pay or you will pay the higher cost of making them here), inflaming the Muslim world by demanding a temporary ban on our Muslim partners (amazingly this probably helped Iran free more prisoners so Hillary can be elected), a massive tax cut plan the success of which depends on increased taxes from an instantaneous huge economic uptick from payers who each pay less (if not instantaneous, we go broker even faster). The theory: first we cut the tax revenue and that causes massive economic revenue growth, maybe, possibly, someday in the future). For health care, we will abolish the ACA and replace it with something, yet to be determined, that will cover ALL Americans. And it will be super. Wow, that’s a non-plan that’s bound to save money. It will include the ability to buy insurance across State lines to reduce costs forgetting that the different costs have a lot to do with different state laws on what’s in the insurance so to do this you have to have one federally mandated set of insurance regulations. That’s the Don’s plan, federal takeover.
Trump is a great businessman. But to become great, he went bankrupt 4 times allowing the government to bail him out and keep him afloat. He can’t do that as President. He was booted out of his own company; that can happen as President but there’s a huge cost. 33% or $3 Billion of his net worth is based on Trump’s name. But it’s highly questionable whether his brand would bring world investors to our shores or send them fleeing to other investments. Remember, we live the life we do because we are the world’s first choice for solid investments, including the Chinese….for now.
Economic life after Trump: http://www.thestreet.com/story/13335121/1/if-donald-trump-was-president-here-s-what-would-happen-to-the-u-s-economy.html
I say feel free to support him as your candidate. Let facts be your friends. The man lies, his actual plans for our progress are weak and unworkable, and his sky-in-the-pie feel good rah rah rhetoric salves the anger yet may not save our soul. To reach his goals, the Trump seems prone to undue denigration of those whose crime is being different with different ideas. He calls it PC avoidance. Telling it like it is. Not just little pokes but full on attacks based on personal attributes. This acceptance of such crude and boorish behavior is a danger to our freedoms. Our Presidents listen to the people, they don't trample dissenters. Americans don’t pick on Americans for being different and we shouldn’t condone it in others. Especially our Presidents.
And so it is in Caesar's world, JIT. as the presses keep rolling . I came with nothing and will most likely leave with nothing, but I know where I am going. Amen!!!
JIT,
Very good analysis, thanks for sharing.
I have to admit I never thought of the Trump Wall as also keeping us in as much as keeping illegals out. A 21st Century version of the Berlin Wall?
Perhaps Trump is afraid we'll all want to flee to Mexico and points south if he is elected??
It certainly is a different view JerryG. You'll not find too many taking that perspective, and those you do are generally lumped in with the very convenient moniker of "conspiracy theorist" or "nut job". We had Ross Perot in the early '90's, Ron Paul in 2008 and 2012, and some others who barely register in the news? I think Rand Paul shares a similar view, but he's trying too hard to be accepted by the status quo.
Old Gent, sadly your view is really the only one that's possible now. Easy money is too big, too entrenched in our society for anyone to really want to fix things. Get on the train, take yours while the taking is good, and don't worry too much about your kids and grand kids. They will have to deal with our collective choices in whatever way they can.
So did Rubio just Rick Perry himself on Saturday night? Repeating the same memorized line 3 times even while the others opening mocked him for only being able to memorize talking points
Took awhile for the true colors to appear. But he is done. A puppet in the worst way.
The debate was scary stuff. Here's is one person's opinion (it's not a long piece):
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/william-astore/the-republicans-are-scari_b_9181056.html?
Maybe the debate system brings out the worst in candidates. Once upon a time, a candidate would say little (like Abraham Lincoln in 1860), so that all his options were open when elected.
"Once upon a time, a candidate would say little (like Abraham Lincoln in 1860), so that all his options were open when elected."
The WORST kind of politician. If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything. AMENDED for use when discussing politicians: If you don't stand for something, you stand for NOTHING, except what keeps getting you re-elcted to the gravy train.
No thanks.
Darwin, jd2, JeffersonRepub et al,
Maybe Marco Rubio needs to lose the high-heeled boots, the preppy sweater, and start wearing Buddy Holly glasses like Rick Perry. Would that help? This political race is a depressing bad joke. Nobody looks good, not just in appearances, but in lack of programs, will and character.
Rubio's answers in every debate have followed a particular script: he gives a prepared-but-vapid reply and then transitions to one of several (similarly scripted, but slightly longer) speeches designed to (1) sound nationalistic and (2) take a crack at Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton. Both set him up as a plausible general election candidate. If he’s attacked, he swats back with a pre-prepared insult before proceeding to his speech.
RUBIO: Chris -- Chris, your state got hit by a massive snowstorm two weeks ago. You didn't even want to go back. They had to shame you into going back. And then you stayed there for 36 hours and then he left and came back to campaign. Those are the facts. Here's the bottom line. This notion that Barack Obama doesn't know what he's doing is just not true. He knows exactly what he's doing...
CHRISTIE: There it is! There it is. The memorized 25-second speech. There it is, everybody.
Christie opened Rubio up and showed us the circuitry inside. It was ugly. He is good at playing the part of a young fresh presidential candidate, but under pressure he looks like the empty suit they accused Obama of being eight years ago.
"I knew Jack Kennedy. Jack Kennedy was a friend of mine, and senator, you are no Jack Kennedy." - Lloyd Benson, 1988.
Too bad nobody on the platform ever challenges Trump's standard 20 second speech -- "I'm going to make this country great again, blah blah blah" ---
JIT They will have to deal with our collective choices in whatever way they can.
I have already had such discussions with my grandchildren. I remind them that our grandparents left their home land for a better life and they should not be ashamed to do the same. I remind them, Lord will be with them where ever they are.
As a family they have done some travel outside the country all ready. Now My grandson is doing some for his company.He already did South America.and is now scheduled for a European tour in the spring. His father just came back from Europe for his Company. It's a world economy giving them lot of exposure. My Granddaughter's boy friend is an Electrical Engineer student in the Air force Reserve and will most likely it will most likely be a traveling life if it comes to pass.
happiest girl - "believe me...I can tell you that...I will win" = the blah, the blah and the blah. So sick of his empty BS, and cannot trust him.
JR, People pretty much knew what Lincoln stood for, based on previous speeches he had made, as well as the debates with Douglas. But as a candidate, he (and others in that age) did not make too many promises, and certainly didn't say - I am the greatest - a la Trump.
My point is simply that these debates force candidates to say a lot - too much, really. There's too much BS, too many falsehoods, some accidental, some intentional.
He must think it a winner for him. There is a message in who the two party leaders are. They didn't care for the last change and looking for a new change.
FYI
I recived this E Mail
I want you to imagine eight years from now:
The minimum wage is a living wage and students are graduating college without crushing debt stifling their ability to pursue the career of their dreams.
Health care is recognized as a right for every man, woman, and child, and the United States is leading the world in fighting climate change.
There is no bank that is too big to fail, no banker too powerful to jail, and we’ve leveled the playing field so that the billionaire class is no longer able to buy and sell our candidates and elections.
When that happens, they will say it all started tomorrow night in New Hampshire where we have overcome not just a forty point deficit in the polls, but the sneers of the corporate media and opposition from political elites and billionaire super PACs.
Sounds like heaven on earth. No word about working. or paying for it, Sign me up.
OMG... who was the email from???
It certainly is a dreamland filled with rainbow unicorns shitting fruit stripe ice cream!
Fantasyland it may be, but can you deny that any one of those would improve life in this country?
I'd be happy if any one of those came true for my children and grandchildren.
Well, let's just make minimum wage $1M/year and everyone goes to Harvard for free! You also get a free house on your 18th birthday and your own private hospital to treat your runny nose. Nobody actually has to pay for any of that... and why would you? You don't have a job, that's what government supplied house servants are for (also making $1M each, etc...)
"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." - Margaret Thatcher
JerryG,
A lot of things would "make life better"... but expecting the country to PAY FOR IT is another issue entirely. You know what would make my life better? Not having to go to my day job, so I could spend my time doing things that I actually enjoy and will better me both mentally and physically as a person, because right now I don't have much time for that. Would you mind terribly if I went on welfare (with them paying my current mortgage, bills, and of course I'd need an allowance), so that "my life could be better"? Oh, and would you mind terribly PAYING FOR IT???
A lot of people STILL don't seem to understand that all this "free" stuff actually COSTS MONEY. Free college? You still have to pay the professors, and admin, and property taxes, and maintenance and God-knows-what-else to keep a university operational... none of these people work for "free". Do you expect them to? Or would you rather raise everyones taxes to 80% in an attempt to pay for all this "free" stuff?
Hey Mark Mc,
Where in that email that Old Gent posted did it say anything about "free" college education? What I read was "graduate without crushing student debt."
And while I can agree that one million dollars per year as a wage would certainly be a living wage I didn't see that in the original email either.
Maybe your eyes are better than mine?
And JR, did that email say anything about expecting it to be paid for with taxpayer dollars? Didn't see that either.
When a university like Rutgers places more money and importance on athletics (which benefits a very small minority) than academics (which is, after all, what a university is supposed to be for -- an education) then the system is screwed up.
The Email was from Bernie through Move On .org. I am well informed as to what is going on, by being many mailing list. I also go from Fox to Msm.
Thats how I learn to survive.
Sure the system is screwed up yet I don't think widespread socialism will fix our ills. Bernie's plans are just too expensive and probably would not work for America given that folks like JR just live for the dole :>)
Not sure I want Bernie's type of national defense either.
Our country has many current forms of socialism, for the most part they work. But full scale socialism across all of our fundamental systems will not work for us. We are not the same as countries that have made it work and our system sets a standard as a counterbalance.
Sure, we could go to single payer system, it could work and benefit the country. The costs and both intended and unintended consequences would be bad IMO. First, it does away with the Health Insurance industry. Perhaps intended but results would not be. Before you cheer, that means a lot of jobs. Second, it puts the government in the ultimate position to pick winners and losers by setting the rules and guidelines without any real competitive forces to offer different choices. Today insurers do that but we have competition and we have state and federal regulation to push back. Cost wise it may work, it may not. You do away with Insurance administration and marketing which gives Medicare much of its cost advantage today. Yet medical costs are rising so fast that not sure we will notice anything.
Mandatory insurance is the law of the land. Yes, there are problems, fix them. Make it better. A number of countries use this model, it is not unique to us. To go back or to start over is stupid silly by both parties. Instead fine tune the current system and get on to the real work of lowering our out of control cost spikes. We aren't getting any younger and we future generations will live longer too. Instead of single payer, just add public option (single payer) for all exchange users as an option. That will make private insurance more competitive overnight, can save massive taxpayer dollars on subsidies, and provide a low cost adequate insurance option for all exchange users. Make sure corporate tax incentive remain the best choice for companies so that they don't throw everyone to the exchanges.
Free college will destroy our education system. If I read Bernie right, he wants to make public (state) education free. Basically creating grades 13 to 17. I think we already know the outcome of public education. It's OK for what is does, could be much better, but playing to the lowest common denominator does have a cost in excellence. We see that in grades 1-13 but colleges do not play to the lowest denominator, they choose and we choose based on risk/reward on tuition and expected outcome.
This will pretty well destroy the private system which today is one of the best in the world. Also, to me one of the issues with current system is that the colleges have taken advantage of low cost college loans to jack their prices. Unintended consequence. Combined with building a college lifestyle far from Spartan, the costs are astronomical. Putting colleges on the dole will just add to that trend which we should be reversing.
I do think we could make community colleges and some of the tech schools into pubic schools; I think this is Obama's concept. Basically extending our public education system to grades 13-14 will better train our workforce for world competition and won't really do that much damage to our 4-year schools. No funding for dormitories, they don't need them. That seems like a better solution to better train our workforce for today's more sophisticated workforce needs. Downsized 50-year old 4-year grads could take advantage to re-tool themselves as well.
Destroying Wall Street is just a stupid gimmick. Sure Bernie, we all know people should have gone to jail. Yes, we had to bail them out but hey, they did pay us back pretty darned quick. Yes, lots of people lost their homes. Those were bad loans in any environment and both lender and borrower should have known better. Yes, lots of people lost their jobs, someone should indeed go to jail.
But destroying the best financial system in the world fueling the best economy in the world is just stupid. Break up monopolies sure, there's a law for that. But we don't have a law for too big to fail and IMO we shouldn't have one.
Socialism across all systems, not a good idea in IMO. Continued and expanded socialist programs. Sure, where it makes sense and cents. We should pick and choose by program not by ideology.
Jerry...
Scientific method is to take a hypothesis and test it at the limits to see if it holds true...
If raising minimum wage is good, does that work at $20,000... $50,000.... $100,000?
If college debt is bad (by subsidizing college costs), does that work at $50,000... $100,000?
At some point, raising minimum wage has negative effects that outweigh the positives. At some point, handing out money for college has negative effects that outweigh the positives. If it didn't, you wouldn't have (rightly) pointed out that $1M/year and free college were ridiculous ideas.
The big question is, what IS that point and how do we know if it hasn't already been crossed?
I doubt that email was sent out to inspire folks to question Rutgers' fiscal pencil sharpening skills while still charging the same tuition... It was sent out to elicit votes for "free stuff".
"And JR, did that email say anything about expecting it to be paid for with taxpayer dollars? Didn't see that either."
And just where exactly do you think money comes from?
(and please don't say "the government" or the government "prints it", because that would indicate that you need to do some homework ... remedial economics 101)
Rutgers in 2000: $6,333
Rutgers in 2010: $12,559
I am in no way for free college, but come on that hike in cost is plan stupid.
especially when you see they LOST $36million in sport revenue in 2014 alone! And expect to lose a total of $183million in sports revenue from 2015-2022
so I am for state schools, that use state $, to be affordable to the state residents!!!
but Fed gov't should stay out of it.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/12/opinion/joe-nocera-at-rutgers-its-books-vs-ballgames.html?_r=0
Rutgers should never have expanded its football program to the Big East and then the Big Ten. It was a monumental mistake.Time and time again it has been proven the vast majority of schools that go this route simply lose money in the long run. It also takes the focus off the academics. In my mind a University should be known for academics, not football which is fundamentally useless. There is a reason you don't hear about Princeton's football team...because they are too busy being the preeminent American university turning out the finest minds in the world.
I always look at the big picture and read many different things. Today, I read this, and see it as another point to the dissension that is prevalent today in this country. The one thing I would add to it, is the decline of white children by those not wanting to take on that responsibility. Interesting that the blacks seem less affected. It's kinda how I look at things.
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/feb/07/suicide-rates-rise-butte-montana-princeton-study
I saw Princeton's football team last year -- they blew out Lafayette something awful.
http://www.goprincetontigers.com/SportSelect.dbml?SPID=4263
Mark,
It's my understanding that no one pays to go to Princeton- it's 100% scholarships, whether academic or otherwise.
But yeah- I agree with everyone the cost of colleges is a SCAM.
"I saw Princeton's football team last year -- they blew out Lafayette something awful."
My local team is Clemson... they blew out *almost* everybody this year ;)
No one pays to go to Princeton. That's a good one.
Its open enrollment too. That's how Cruz got in.
Best and most entertaining debate so far. Jeb and Rubio excelled tonight. Glad Ben was acknowledged more. I think people are finally becoming aware of the bs that Trump and Cruz spills forth.
Can't say I agree with you at all positive. Jeb and Rubio are toast, and have been toast. People don't want another potus owned by donors that can't make there own choices.
Bonv I can say that was the ugliest debate yet. Got absolutely nothing accomplished. Didn't help a single one of them. And just added fuel to the democat nominee for the general.
I dunno dannyC, you seem clueless or in denial about what's going on here. I guess you'll have to vote for Clinton or Sanders because your establishment hero, whomever you want it to be, isn't gonna happen this time.
Trump is an insult to American intelligence. An entertainer, but when he attacks George W. Bush, as he must do while Jeb brings him out, he will fail miserably, and ultimately leave the race, good riddance. Sanders is relying on the ignorance of generations who did not experience the cold war, Stalin or Hitler, and will fail as well. Both have got to go. "Believe me, I can tell you that."
Yeah, but the other candidates are an insult to intelligence as well... touche...
Then you have a Socialist and a career Washington insider who will change nothing (Clinton). I would NEVER vote for Sanders, assholes like him is why I sold my vacation home in the great state of Vermont. I was double-taxed because the area was affluent?
Jeb Bush? Bush is so weak he only got this far on daddy's name. Rubio and Cruz don't seem genuine (especially Rubio).
Sorry, but Trump gets my vote; the least of all evils. No Ron Paul to vote for so what can I do...
Oh man, I wish I could have seen this....
One of the most memorable moments of the night between the candidates came when Cruz accused Rubio of going on Univision and promising amnesty to a Spanish speaking audience. Rubio responded by saying, "I don't know how Cruz knows what I said on Univision because he doesn't speak Spanish." To which Cruz responded, in Spanish, "We can do this in Spanish, if you want."
*For me, Kasich won it at the end when he talked about sending "power, money and influence" back to where we live and not waiting on gov't to fix things. Taking care of the lady next door who lost her husband...
*Ben Carson was completely uninspiring as usual. He looks like some random guy who just wandered out onto the stage.
*Trump - is starting to self-destruct a bit in the debate setting (yes I know he's ahead in the S.C. polls) and continues to be completely unable to articulate his core principles or policy plans, because he doesn't have any IMO.
*Cruz - did win the 'Spanish' exchange with Rubio, LOL. That was a bad decision on Marco's part to bring that up - blew up in his face.
*Jeb - starting to deal with Trump better - although whenever Trump is speaking, Jeb still looks like a scared kid on the playground looking at a bully.
brown bear2 Although, I get Trump's appeal to the bottom 50 percenters, or the bottom 30 in this case, I thought he would crash and burn by now. Last night's performance, if you can call it that, not only confirms that he's a megalomaniacal narcissist, he's NUTS.
Trump and the reincarnation of tail gunner Joe McCarthy - Cruz, what a pair. Carson is the only guy with true intelligence and he's just too darn nice a guy.
One of the most shameful displays of our political process in action I have ever witnessed. Between liberal sprinklings of God and Reagan, the boys rudely exchanged insults and invectives. Trump leading all by speaking over everyone and rarely being called on bad form. Needed a forceful Jersey “Yo Donster, shut your pie hole while I’m talking” or some other clever interjection rather than yielding the floor and looking at your belly button. Should have been prepped on Trump’s snarky tactics.
Was it just me or did the boys find God in South Carolina? Did Kasich basically say if elected he would leave his plans in God’s hands?
“The Lord made all of us special. The Lord wants all of us to be connected.”
I hope South Carolina was listening.
...Kasich... well he is too minor league working on the severe problems of Ohio. Nothing truly innovative from him... he just seems to say what will get him elected...
Carson... weird guy I don't see him leading a single family properly much less this great nation...
Shut your piehole?
You consider that a clever interjection? Lord help us
And coming two sentences after you criticized them for rudely exchanged insults you suggest they should insult each other
Oi vey
CBGB Yeah pretty lame but the point was when Trump continued to bully but in rudely, I think the only recourse was to push back hard, real hard, so he wouldn't make that mistake again. Volume would be required.
Cruz's soft attempt to stop the interjections by suggesting maturity fell on deaf ears.
.
Using the Republican debate as a segueway, The Walking Dead mid-season premiere is tonight on AMC.
Anyone planning on watching the debate tonight? I would think you are forcefed4door. Lol
Count me in... I'm taking Trump. I've already called in sick for tomorrow, lol.
http://www.debatedrinking.com/
Man the Reagan cue is a killer. My hangover from the last one was epic.
Think I will choose Carson and stay sober. Probably won't let him talk
Will Carly debate herself earlier?
Will they have a moment of silence for all the vanquished Hunger Gamers.
Positive, absolutely anxiously waiting for it to start. No matter what kind of blood bath occurs, whoes the winner? No need to say, we already know :-)
Appears that the loudmouth emperor has no clothes. Maybe too late but at least somebody brought their big boy pants to shut this bully up.
- Trump hires illegals
- Trump has been fined millions for hiring illegals
- Trump uses factories in Mexico and China
- Trump has no health plan; there is no health plan
- Trump can't release his taxes because he's being audited (apparently audited every year for many, many years) and he won't release any taxes while last year is under audit
- Trump has many failed businesses including Trump University still being sued and 4 bankruptcies
- Trump will be in court probably in July over TU
- Trump financially supports most leading liberal politicians and agrees with Hillary's plan for Israel.
In Trump's own words, when the fact checkers come in, many Trump lies will be revealed.
I hope he wins.
Trump is a lying egomaniacal narcissist, Clinton is a lying psychopathic bitch. Problem is, one of them is probably going to win. Scary isn't it.
Even as a strong trump supporter, Rubio hit him good last night. Although everyone already knows about all these issues from his past, the one thing he got him good on was his healthcare proposal
SD, he gets audited every year because he's a "strong Christian".
As for healthcare, most of the problem is the lines around the States. He's going to fix that. He's also going to do "lots of stuff... big stuff, great stuff... lots of stuff".
and here is the problem with the Republicans in the primary. They start with way too many. and then the only way to separate themselves from the herd is to personally attack each other for months and months.
so by time one of them escapes the mess and becomes the nominee the general public has just been told for months what a$$ the person is but now told we need to vote for him. ok
Where the Democrats, while very boring, have harmony. I have a plan, you have a plan, both have the same goal but I think my plan is better and here is why.... so the party as a whole is together.
that debate last night, as most of them have been, was completely embarrassing to watch. You actually had Ben ASK to be attacked. LOL what a complete sh1tshow.
in that photo, it looks like Ted Cruise is checking out The Donald's "risky business"...
What they needed last night, were sound proof booths for The fifth grade Schoolyard
match of "Your Mother Wears Combat Boot" spat.
All Lies, Lies, and More Lies..... from all of them. I was waiting for one of them, to say,
"Thee who hath not ever lied, be the one to throw the first Stone!"
Embryodad "As for healthcare, most of the problem is the lines around the States."
Does anyone really know what time it is? This Conservative nirvana is a fractured fairytale from the get-go. Why are their lines around the states? It's called state regulations because of state's rights.... Why are prices different and some companies only compete in some states and national companies have different packages and prices in different states. It's called state regulations because we have state's rights.
So basically the conservatives want to erase the circles and let any insurance be sold anywhere. That's called erasing state regulations and voiding laws set up via state's rights.
Now no matter what regulations your state has in place, now you can pick the lowest price no doubt from the state with the least regulations and lowest bar of consumer protection and be covered under the laws of that state. Good luck appealing any issues. You'll have to sue in a different state.
The program effectively makes health insurance a federal offer emanating from the least regulated state as the low cost, no benefit leader. And now insurance will be a lowest common denominator offer.
To show you how bad that could get, before ObamaCare effectively raised the bar for minimum insurance protection, in some states you could basically buy insurance that would never pay out. So you had insurance and were happy if healthy, but if you got sick, it didn't cover and KMA YOYO (kiss my ooo, you're on your own).
That's why some states saw 100% increases with ObamaCare, they basically had regulations that allowed low cost, no coverage insurance to be sold.
So conservative health care insurance nirvana looks like a federal program where the bar set by ObamaCare would be the floor for insurance offers from states with little regulation. With ObamaCare repealed, the ability for insurers to use a state with little or no regulations to set their national program and their national price is the supposed panacea. More competitive? Not really, it's just lowering the bar for insurance benefits while using a federal mandate to dismiss the state's rights to set insurance regulations.
Now the least regulated state with the shoddiest insurance offers will be the price leader and stupid people will lose. I think that state is Tennessee which will become the insurance offer center of the country.
I do have to admit that it really was not a debate by classical terms. But it was a stage for bravado. This Republican nomination has become just a matter of "take it if you can"...
agreed ianimal! and Trump is really starting to scare the hell out of me, reminds me of a pre-WWII Hitler
Anyone else notice that vile spit-glob on cruz's lip? The GOP would have this race in the bag if it weren't for Trump. Anyone on that stage could beat that stooge Hillary and Bernie is just dreadful. Now it will be Trump vs Hillary and we'll have four more years of nonsense.
Hitler was hated by the establishment, that's for sure. That seems to be a big attraction for Trump.
Whenever Cruz says " you know" you know a long boring stupid pointless story that had nothing to do with the question he was asked
Torture redefined: Four years of "believe me," "I guarantee it," "that I can tell you."
What a display that was.
Party is out of control and splitting at the seams.
If that was a high school debate they would have gotten detention.
Yea that was the mistake that every moderator made. They should have abandoned their moderators for kindergarten teachers used to such behavior.
The Trump backpeddle montage was megyns revenge.
And then to too it off, she began debatting Trump.
Priceless pandemonium.
Google transcripts of any of Trump's speeches. It's actually scary how little he says. Somehow, everybody claps and cheers, but when you read the transcript back later, there is literally NOTHING of substance in there. He makes Sarah Palin look almost bright.
I'm leaning toward Rubio as the best. At least he comes off as a blend of personable, witty, and substantive.
Flapjack seriously Trump supporters would be "proud" to vote for him after that performance last night? If so I don't know what I am more scared of, Trump or his supporters LOL
At least I got to hear Kasich last night. I like him, and I'm hoping last night some people may start paying attention to him, instead of the other clowns and their outrageous b.s.
LAS Flapjack its funny you say that. I was watching his speech last weekend and my wife was in the kitchen, after 10mins she came in and said "he hasn't said anything yet!!!" its all gossip and putting the other guys down and talking about the polls. ZERO substance in his speeches. My wife describe it the best, he says something outlandish, see the reaction and feeds of it and keeps going. He really needs a speech writer.
I'm not sure which was more distracting: the snot glob on Cruise's lip or the peacock feathers attached to Megyn Kelly's eyelids... I thought only drag queens wore fake eyelashes that long.
and what was with that weird headbob ? 30sec mark:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6J-imz1rdIA
I thought she was my little genie granting a wish
also the kid in the background did a perfect dab LOL
I thought I was just being weird to notice the lashes.
Trump talked about polls, pols, and poles. And little marco
darwin - When the kid in the audience clearly has more smarts than the combined members at the podium, it's time to turn off the TV. Hours of time you can never get back.
Continues to reinforce my belief that Trump is a raving lunatic. Don't agree with much of anything the strangerman ever says (although he's sometimes amusing),
but I do like his analogy of trump to benito - not that many people will know what that means though. Might have to sit this election out, could never ever vote for trump and I'd chew my arm off before I'd vote for the bitch. Yeah, I know what not voting means.
https://www.brandwatch.com/2016/03/react-dissecting-a-fiery-11th-republican-debate/
Dissecting a Fiery 11th Republican Debate
So I am watching the debate last night and I was amazed how all the candidates gave great answers that did not even come close to answering the actual question.
Case in point: Trump asked how he could keep all Social Security benefits, maybe increase some, and remain solvent without raising taxes.
His answer, albeit abridged without the hyperbole, fix fraud and reduce our expenditures for foreign aid and protection of other countries to remain solvent without a reduction to benefits or an increase to taxes.
Rubio pounced on the fraud correctly indicating that, while fixing fraud is a great thing, a $3B fix against a $150B shortfall won't do much. Don't hold me to those numbers or the time frame they are calculated for, but you get the relationship drift. Fraud fixing is a good fix but a small fix.
What everyone missed was that reducing foreign aid and world protection, while a good thing to look at in my book, does absolutely nothing, nada, zip, for Social Security. You can't take budget savings from one place in the budget and reallocate them to Social Security. By law. It was an ignorant inexperienced answer that did not even approach answering the question.
And, if by some Trumpian miracle, you could apply those "savings" to Social Security, which you can't, but if you could, then Trump would have effectively raised Social Security taxes, the exact thing he just said he wouldn't do in the same answer.
Not really just picking on Trump on this. It's just that it was the first snippet I caught and so obviously stupid it stuck out. After that, they all kept not answering the question albeit often with some good answers, some not so good IMHO to other questions not asked.
You would think in a debate someone would actually engage in debate when folks not only don't answer the question but worse yet, give an answer to another question altogether.
I dislike debates. Candidates are expected to come up with answers off the top of their heads. No wonder they often avoid doing so; it's not realistic to expect them to be able to do it. The real world has too much complexity for that.
Once in office, the president hopefully will know to send questions about current issues to staff and/or other experts, who then will give the president options to pick from, and he usually will have some time to consider those options.
I dislike debates....
I agree jd. They should all have a buzzer. Ask the question. First one buzzes answers. I think it would eliminate all the BS.
I don't think in this day and age - when other countries are spying and cyber stealing all our info that it's smart to have all our candidates televised telling the entire world (some of which want to destroy us), exactly what we are going to do in every aspect of our government.
Especially troubling to me is when moderators ask what the candidates are going to do to the terrorists, who they plan to bomb, will they put boots on the ground, etc.
Is that not top secret, classified information that should be guarded from leaking to our enemies? Here they are telling the world every single, solitary idea, plan, our exact economic situation, etc, etc. But then we worry about spies??
It's so stupid to me.
Heidi 
Sorry Heidi, but in order for a voter to make an informed decision, we have to know something more than "build a wall" or "keep out Muslims" or anything that merely a vague feel-good platitude from any of the candidates.
No one has offered anything of substance as far as how they'd deal with the critical issues facing our country today, and that's scary. To me, that says they haven't a clue.
I agree Heidi. I find that just as disturbing as what is taking place involving Hillary and her complete disregard for her position and the ramifications of what may have taken place as a result of her negligence and lack of common sense....I could say almost the same for the Donald and add some.
Could someone start a thread asking the question, who would make a good write in candidate come the general elections? All it takes is one word answers with no fights. ; )
Actually Spring Fever, two word answers would be needed ;-)
I'll put my vote in for you because you're pretty level headed, and because I just love your name, especially this time of the year!
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