698K Native-born Americans lost their jobs last month

698K Native-born Americans lost their jobs last month

immigrants, both legal and illegal are replacing working American citizens:

The chart is the following, showing the cumulative addition of foreign-born and native-born workers added to US payrolls according to the BLS since December 2007, i.e., since the start of the recession/Second Great Depression.

that in August a whopping 698,000 native-born Americans lost their job. This drop was offset by 204,000 foreign-born Americans, who got a job in the month of August.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-09-07/698k-native-born-americans-lost-their-job-august-why-suddenly-most-important-jobs-ch

BrotherDog BrotherDog
Sep '15

Re: 698K Native-born Americans lost their jobs last month

But the punchline: since December 2007, according to the Household Survey, only 790,000 native born American jobs have been added. Contrast that with the 2.1 million foreign-born Americans who have found a job over the same time period...

BrotherDog BrotherDog
Sep '15

On September 7th, The Daily Currant printed:

“Sarah Palin claimed today that Native Americans should leave America and go back to their homeland ‘Nativia’.

In an interview with Fox News this morning, the former Alaskan governor was asked about her support of Donald Trump and his controversial views on immigration.

“I love immigrants,” she told Fox and Friends host Steve Doocey, “But like Donald Trump, I just think we have too darn many in this country.

“Mexican-Americans, Asian-Americans, Native-Americans – they’re changing up the cultural mix in the United States away from what it used to be in the days of our Founding Fathers.

“I think we should go to some of these groups and just ask politely – would you mind going home? Would you mind giving us our country back?”

“Sarah you know I love you,” Doocey interjected, “And I think that’s a great idea with regards to Mexicans. But where are the Native Americans supposed to go? They don’t really have a place to go back to do they?”

“Well I think they should go back to Nativia or wherever they came from,” Palin replied — as the show’s co-hosts sat in stunned silence.”
.
The Daily Currant is an English language online satirical newspaper that covers global politics, business, technology, entertainment, science, health and media.

strangerdanger strangerdanger
Sep '15

Well, if we are losing so many jobs, let us elect some creative congressmen, senators, and put someone in the White House, who will build new ones.

We could start with training for the needs of our ever-changing computer age, so we'd have an employable workforce.

Where do I sign?

Andy Loigu Andy Loigu
Sep '15

Why always bad news, BD?

When the unemployment rate goes up, you post about it. But when it goes down, no post about it from you.

When gas prices go up, you post about it. But when they go down, no post.

Maybe I've missed something? :)


Time for the natives to step up.

emaxxman emaxxman
Sep '15

Unless someone is privy to information that they are not sharing it's not possible to know that "in August a whopping 698,000 native-born Americans lost their job". At least not based on this chart. The chart by itself DOES NOT say that they LOST their jobs. It only says there are fewer working. As alarming as this chart may look at first glance it's hard to know what's really going on without a lot more information.

For example, what is the profile of the native-born who left the workforce? How many were simply retirees? How many were high paid energy industry workers who got laid off from high paying jobs in Montana, Colorado, and other energy producing states since the price of oil has dropped? What would that have to do with immigration? Do you see where this is going?

Who are these non-native born? Have they been here a long time? What percentage are illegally in the U.S? How many are migrant workers being picked up in August for farm work? There is lot's of information that we don't have.

I think it would be interesting to know what's really going on. But we can gain a real understanding from just this chart.


Re: 698K Native-born Americans lost their jobs last month

Time to get the gang back together, BD (-;

ianimal ianimal
Sep '15

hah! good one ! and we need some craft beer to drink at the 'meetings'

BrotherDog BrotherDog
Sep '15

from the linked article:


For decades, workers have watched jobs disappear to foreign competitors inside and outside the U.S. And for years, pundits and politicians said boosting skills offered a path to job security.

Reality is more complex. Competition has arrived at the highest skill levels.

Increasingly, workers face the following stark choices: Settle for less money, or work harder and more skillfully than the guy coming for your job — or both.

BrotherDog BrotherDog
Sep '15

During the holiday weekend, in the car, my wife saw signs with gas prices of less than two dollars a gallon, and said, WOW, gas prices are still coming down.

I said, yeah, when they were going up, Romney was blaming Obama for it.

Don't hear anything when they are going down.

Actually, the president is kind of like a quarterback in football, when the team wins he gets too much credit, when the team loses, he takes too much of the blame.

But, you can't win without a good quarterback.

Andy Loigu Andy Loigu
Sep '15

So from BD's "the sky is falling" article, we have these raw numbers:

Jan. 2008 -
122M native born Americans employed - 2008 was the year that we experienced a global economic collapse
22M foreign born employed

January 2011 -
115M native born Americans employed - that's the lowest number of employed since the economic crash
21M foreign born employed

August 2015 - 124M native born Americans employed
24M foreign born employed

Now you have a more complete picture instead of the myopic view that BD provided.

emaxxman emaxxman
Sep '15

Just from anecdotal chit chat, I gather that lots of people have come into this country at the behest of companies that need their tech expertise.

Kind of an indictment of our schools, no?

And, in agreement with conservatives, we spend way too much on schools already, administration salaries, that is.

The apologists always say, well, our salaries have to be competitive with private industry, so they won't leave.

YO -- let them leave. Replace them with people who care about educating kids, who care about our country's future.

Andy Loigu Andy Loigu
Sep '15

Teaching shouldn't be charity work. What we need is a process to tie teacher performance and salaries together - reward the really good ones and get rid of the under-performing ones. We must be willing to pay well for good teachers.

emaxxman emaxxman
Sep '15

As far as tech expertise, that's a fallacy in my opinion. The tech sector, of which I was a part of, experienced an estimated (and whopping) 28% unemployment rate during the offshoring movement. A lot of very smart and good people lost their jobs. There wasn't a lack of skill . There was a lack of cheap skill willing to work 80 hours a week with no overtime. The employees that are left, including any H1B visa employees, are worked to the bone these days. While I miss programming, my life is so much better than had I stayed in it.

emaxxman emaxxman
Sep '15

Good points, emaxx.

There's another problem that this country has created for itself, outsourcing.

You make a customer service call these days, and you get someone in Singapore.

Andy Loigu Andy Loigu
Sep '15

This happened to someone in my family. Replaced by people with H1B visas so that greedy corporations can make more profit. It's not about Obama. It is about corporate greed and politicians that get their money by going along with it. It's also not about lack of education. That is an excuse they use. "We can't find anyone to do this job so we need to import people". This has been going on for years. The people who are being fired are forced to train the people who are replacing them. Read this article. When I read it, it brought back everything that had happened years ago.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/09/07/exclusive-displaced-cast-member-how-disney-replaced-me-other-americans-with-cheap-foreigners-on-h1b-visas/

Indy2 Indy2
Sep '15

Andy. I call a large insurance company and most of their customer service is in Poland. Another large insurance company outsources most of their clerical and rating to India. These were jobs held by people in this country who were making better than minimum wage with benefits. Guess it was cutting too much into their profits. Finally, I talk to way too many voice systems to process payments and other functions that used to be handled by an actual live person.

Bessie Bessie
Sep '15

Bessie, I hate those voice systems! No, I do not want to have a conversation with a computer. I hit "0" most of the time from the very start. Usually works.

And I work for a company that finds ways to give US based jobs to foreigners. You think that not a single person in the US of A qualifies as a Sales manager? I guess the US visa approver person believes it.


Unfortunately, we can't do anything about legal immigrants. The best we can do is enforce the immigration laws we have in place and deport illegals.

1988LJ 1988LJ
Sep '15

some outlets are trying to hide the truth of immigrants displacing American workers:

Facebook temporarily banned users from posting reports by an immigration watchdog analyzing federal statistics that show immigrants in general, and illegal immigrants specifically, are taking a big share of new jobs that come open in America, according to the group producing the reports.

after Secrets raised the issue with Facebook, a spokesman said the ban was an error and that the reports will be allowed to post.

Facebook and founder Mark Zuckerberg has taken a position in support of immigration, which has become a top issue in the GOP presidential primary race.

The center said that by barring four reports from being posted on Facebook, now among the top news sources for America, the website is censoring information key to the immigration debate and the drive by some in Congress to expand immigration. The reports that are banned are based on federal statistics, including the U.S. Census and Bureau of Labor Statistics.


http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/facebook-bars-posting-of-reports-showing-immigrants-taking-jobs-from-americans/article/2570710

BrotherDog BrotherDog
Sep '15

Do people know about Mexican Repatriation during The Great Depression? The number of forced to relocate to Mexico people was about 2 million, an estimated 1.2 million of whom were United States citizens.


stem graduates can't find new jobs:

STEM Grads Are at a Loss

Those who claim there's a STEM skills shortage are ignoring the evidence.

All credible research finds the same evidence about the STEM workforce: ample supply, stagnant wages and, by industry accounts, thousands of applicants for any advertised job. The real concern should be about the dim employment prospects for our best STEM graduates:

In contrast, average wages in the IT industry are the same as those that prevailed when Bill Clinton was president despite industry cries of a “shortage.” Overall, U.S. colleges produce twice the number of STEM graduates annually as find jobs in those fields.

In a desert of evidence, the growth of STEM shortage claims is driven by heavy industry funding for lobbyists and think tanks. Their goal is government intervention in the market under the guise of solving national economic problems. The highly profitable IT industry, for example, is devoting millions to convince Congress and the White House to provide its employers with more low-cost, foreign guestworkers instead of trying to attract and retain employees from an ample domestic labor pool of native and immigrant citizens and permanent residents. Guestworkers currently make up two-thirds of all new IT hires, but employers are demanding further increases. If such lobbying efforts succeed, firms will have enough guestworkers for at least 100 percent of their new hiring and can continue to legally substitute these younger workers for current employees, holding down wages for both them and new hires.

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2014/09/15/stem-graduates-cant-find-jobs

BrotherDog BrotherDog
Sep '15

Maja, the people I deal with for work are living in their respective countries, not here, no visas involved. I like the voice system that says.."I'm sorry, I didn't understand you, let me connect you to the next customer service specialist. This only occurs after I've mumbled the policy number into the phone 3 times. I hate that a computer voice is telling me it's sorry, drives me nuts, LOL.

Bessie Bessie
Sep '15

Lena - I actually just read about it this morning on NPR. It was a very shocking read. It goes to show you we really haven't learned much from history.

http://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2015/09/08/437579834/mass-deportation-may-sound-unlikely-but-its-happened-before?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=20150908

Despite feeling the negative brunt of H1B visas and outsourcing, my statement above still stands. If you want a job, you need to step up - native or non-native. That's how life works.

emaxxman emaxxman
Sep '15

Big difference between native born Americans,and Native Americans. I am both, and I work. (No benefits, and most of my money goes towards my child's preschool tuition.) Palin sounds confused.

Funny lady Funny lady
Sep '15

I can't even comment on Palin's comments..my mouth is wide open, but my tongue is in shock.

positive positive
Sep '15

No benefits? Hope you've enrolled in 'Obamacare' ... which is really a politically watered down version of the Romneycare that was instituted in Massachusetts.

As a registered Republican who votes in primaries, I'm waiting to see if one of the candidates labels himself a 'reform conservative' and says it is time for the GOP to be responsive to the concerns of workers earning stagnant wages, losing jobs to outsourcing, downsizing, all those ills stemming from corporate greed run amok.

Reform conservatism is based on the recognition that the American political system has not served middle class people well, not just since the crash of 2008, but at least since the year 2000.

Y2K stands for yucky 2K, if you care what I think.

Andy Loigu Andy Loigu
Sep '15

Well Jeeze, if "Tyler Durdin" (brad pitts's character in the movie Fight Club) posted it on ZeroHedge.com, I guess I have to believe it.

Gadfly Gadfly
Sep '15

"I can't even comment on Palin's comments..my mouth is wide open, but my tongue is in shock."

I'm pretty sure that it was satirical and not an actual quote... She's world-class stupid, but not necessarily one of the all-time greats (-;

"The Daily Currant is an English language online satirical newspaper that covers global politics, business, technology, entertainment, science, health and media."

ianimal ianimal
Sep '15

Thanks..I was not aware of that, however I wouldn't consider her as world class stupid. Yes she poorly conveyed her thoughts and beliefs just like Trump. But as far as stupid goes.. I think Trump may be the winner.

I'm not into politics at all, so there is no argument on my end. Lol

positive positive
Sep '15

While I can't stand Trump, I would say he's an amazingly smart, brilliant even, person. You don't get to where he is if you're dumb.


As far as FB being a top news source, that just says all you need to know. My FB feed is filled with nothing but fact less and biased memes and links to articles that are clearly just trying to incite anger.

emaxxman emaxxman
Sep '15

emaxx - correct, they are not a real news sitre, but you missed the point, FB and it's founder have a open immigration policy, and they prevented news stories from being posted that counter thier views. if you can;t see something wrong with that , then i cant help you

current trends in employment shows that immigrants both legal and illegal are pushing American citizens out of good paying jobs and low wage jobs.

negatively impacting American citizens who work and need jobs is something FB tried to prevent their users from seeing.

that's wrong isn't it??

BrotherDog BrotherDog
Sep '15

71 Percent of New Jobs Go to Foreign Born Legal, Illegal Immigrants in NH:

using data from the U.S. Census Bureau’s Current Population Survey showed that since 2000, 71 percent of the net increase in the number of working-age (16 to 65) people holding a job in New Hampshire has gone to immigrants (legal and illegal), even though the native-born accounted for 65 percent of population growth among the working-age.

As a result, the share of natives holding a job in the state has declined significantly.

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/penny-starr/report-71-percent-new-jobs-go-foreign-born-legal-illegal-immigrants-nh

BrotherDog BrotherDog
Sep '15

" if you can;t see something wrong with that , then i cant help you"

"negatively impacting American citizens who work and need jobs is something FB tried to prevent their users from seeing."

Facebook is a non-government entity. It has no obligation to provide a balanced view. It's the same as Breitbart, Fox News, etc. None of them are obligated. It's up to you to, as you always say, read a number of sources and formulate your own opinion. Facebook, being a non-news site, should never be considered a news source by any reasonable person. Unfortunately, that's not the case.

"current trends in employment shows that immigrants both legal and illegal are pushing American citizens out of good paying jobs and low wage jobs."

As stated above, I'm not sure if that blanket statement can factually be made. My family has been here for 40 years. Would we be included in the immigrant stat or the citizen stat? Sure, the lower paying jobs may be going to new immigrants.

In my opinion, the answer isn't to preserve the low skill jobs for "Americans" (however you define American.) The answer is to raise the skill level of Americans so that they can compete for the higher paying skilled jobs. The rest of the world has been pushing hard to raise the educational levels of its workforce. America, for the most part, has relied on a false sense of security in its superiority and thus fallen behind. The big 3 auto companies are a prime example of this.

emaxxman emaxxman
Sep '15

It seems people who are anti-immigration don't think twice about laying off people and having their jobs done in Asia or wherever. They want it both ways, they want their cake and eat it, too (fill in your favorite cliché here).

Trump is interesting, he says some things I like, but then in the next sentence he'll insult millions of people who haven't done anything wrong.

Of course he's smart, but he can also be incredibly insensitive.

Andy Loigu Andy Loigu
Sep '15

the shortage of engineers is bogus! Its so companies can hire cheap foreign contract workers.large "job shops" bring over Indian and other workers with promises of the good like only to become indentured slave in hi tech sweat shops. Believe me I've seen the telecom industry in nj sink from hundreds of thousands 40% of that! mostly At&T bell labs lucent Motorola etc.

kevmo kevmo
Sep '15

I think BDog is on to something here but unfortunately our immigration story is not as black and white as the "get em all out of here" or "let everybody in" forces would have us believe.

The overall foreign worker story including illegals and legals shows an inaccurate view of our immigration problems . Illegals overwhelm and skew the data because the legal numbers are minimal against either the illegal totals or total workforce numbers.. However there are great misuses of the legal H1B process which gets misleadingly heightened when using the total foreign worker numbers as the baseline.

Then you plunk outsourcing on top like those call centers in India and you are adding a whole different kettle of foreign worker issues and problems.

So as BDog states, we have a problem with foreign workers in America but actually we have problems: three different sets of issues between illegals, legals, and outsourcing. We need to examine each in order to get to a complete story.

But the bottom line is a rapid growth of foreign workers in America. Is this unusual? Perhaps for us. The claim is "all new jobs went to foreign born workers." Well, that may be true but not sure any native worker wants those new jobs. At the same time, since the recession, native workers have regained jobs at a 2:1 level over foreign born like close to 10 million hires versus less than 4 million hires.

Currently we have about 16.5% foreign workers in the work force. In 1996, this was 10.8% But the pace has slows since the 16.1% in 2012. In 2013, we had 13.1% foreign born people (not workers) in America. In 1920, we had 13.2%. In 1890 we had 14.8% according to the US census. So something else is happening here if we have the same percentage of foreign born people but a higher percentage of foreign born workers. (US Census)

The foreign born worker profile is heavily skewed to illegal immigrants. When you look at this profile, it does even come close to that of the H1B foreign worker. Over 1/3 Latino but just under 1/3 Asian, they are more likely to be in their peak earning years, less likely to be younger or older, more likely to be male, and just as likely to be unemployed except during a recession when more are suddenly unemployed. (BLS)

They are much more likely to have less than a high school diploma and much less likely to have any college and in service, construction, maintenance and material moving type jobs. They earn 75% of what native workers make. (BLS)

Clearly this does not look like the average H1B foreign worker. Nor am I sure these are jobs that native workers would accept nor am I sure native consumers want to accept the prices that would result from only hiring natives workers. But those are the averages which as I said are heavily skewed to the illegal alien population. We will look deeper in the future but next I will enter the mysterious world of the H1B. After a lot of coffee and reflection.

strangerdanger strangerdanger
Sep '15

OK, getting back to this and covering the HB's, most important the H1B's. The "threat" is massive American worker job displacement due to lower wages. To that point, there have been a number of cases of abuse in this manner, mostly in the computer SW and IT industries. Even if replacement was the goal, at the current rates, it would take 3 decades or more to do that.

H1Bs right now are capped at 65,000 per year; only for jobs where American workers can't be readily found, and salaries commensurate with American workers. At least that's the rules.

Now that said, it seems that over 100,000 H1B visas are issued against that cap, a fact I can not reconcile. Maybe someone else can.

IMHO the concept to find talented labor for unfilled positions is a good idea. To me, the fix is to curb abuse and retain the caps. Sorry, but how hard can that be. We know how many there are, who they are, we know what they make, can't we just let the computers watch them and tell the police when to arrest the malfunctioning company?

Now proving they are guilty could prove trickier, but if we put really strong punitive measures against the guilty I would gather company's would be very prone to try not to get embroiled in cutting costs via H1B employment.

I just don't get it.

On the ag HBs, sounds like we could use some faster paperwork.

Here's a really good backgrounder on all the HB's http://www.brookings.edu/research/reports/2013/06/18-temporary-workers-wilson

strangerdanger strangerdanger
Sep '15

more working americans being thrown out of work:

Hewlett-Packard to Cut Up to 30,000 More Jobs in Restructuring

Hewlett-Packard Co., the technology company splitting into two separate entities, said it will cut as many as 33,300 more jobs as Chief Executive Officer Meg Whitman tries to refashion the business for a rapidly changing technology market.

Moving Workers

It’s also shifting employees to low-cost areas, and hopes to have 60 percent of its workers located in cheaper countries by 2018, Nefkens said.

“We’re exiting labor in high-cost countries,” he said. “Our current workforce rebalancing will eliminate the need for further corporate restructuring.”

Hewlett-Packard has been telegraphing its shift to outsourcing for months, with Whitman saying in June that “there might be a slight movement to more locations outside the U.S.”

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-09-15/hewlett-packard-to-cut-up-to-30-000-more-jobs-in-restructuring

BrotherDog BrotherDog
Sep '15

to me, the fix is to buy American. that's very hard to do (what's the most American car built today? Toyota Camry and Honda Odyssey are 2 of the most, at 75% domestic parts). but how many of us, myself included, go to walmart and buy the cheapest version of something, instead of, say, going to home towne hardware? or trying to find something made in the u.s. as long as most people buy based on price, then companies will look for someone making a quarter or less of what a similar American requires, sending jobs offshore.

ken e
Sep '15

As a American I am saddened to hear about any loss. As a shareholder, I say yippee!

HP is a top ten employers in America and one of the only non retail high paying ones, HP revenues have been shrinking forever as lower cost players nip at HP profits. It's a 10% force reduction for a company that has been bleeding for years. Starting at 350,000, currently at 302,000 worldwide, it has been shrinking since the merger with EDS; As a shareholder, I say thank you very much. Most mergers downsize due to shared services and more so if revenue slips. In total they have had a 22% decrease since the merger but are still one of the top ten employers and one of the few have a majority of higher paying jobs.

A number of workers will go to current contracting companies, yes a reduction in pay, but it's a job and not unemployed. Current average pay is 103K, new jobs might be 70K to 130K, loss of seniority benefits and you can guess which pay, but a job. This is restructuring not a loss of job. If it were government, you would be having a party.

More concerning is the outsourcing but we have little to go on except the words "slight shift" and 60% by 2018. Without numbers not sure where they are currently so how big is a "slight shift" to 60%? About 20% of their business is client focused so you expect employees to be where the clients are. Around 50% of their revenue is overseas so that would drive a lot of off-shore employees as well. And ye there is much routine manufacturing which apparently are the jobs complainers want most so I guess that's the bugaboo. But this is electronics and I doubt there are too many humans involved in manufacturing anyway.

Bottom line is as Emaxxman says, one can expect low-skilled manufacturing jobs to go to lower cost, equal skilled, countries. It's tough but those jobs aren't coming back unless labor costs change or we artificially restrict free trade (the Trump method). I believe the better path is to educate our citizens for higher paying jobs, the kind that HP provides for most of its employees.

And global companies will have global client facing employees; there is no other way to compete.

So yes I am always sad for the trauma of job loss but as a shareholder it's a good thing to return HP to profitability and a profitable HP is really good for America.

strangerdanger strangerdanger
Sep '15

as the preponderance of evidence continues to demonstrate, STEM graduates are having a tough time finding work and competing for jobs, so much for the 'high skills' argument

and as the articles linked above state; for several decades now, workers have watched jobs disappear to foreign competitors inside and outside the U.S.

for years, pundits and politicians said boosting skills offered a path to job security. but reality is more complex and nuanced than that.

Competition has arrived at the highest skill levels. (check the BLS and household surveys for proof)

STEM workers face stark choices: Settle for less money, or work harder and more skillfully than the guy coming for your job — or both.

Competition has arrived at the highest skill levels and it depresses wages and reduces job availability to honest hard working American citizens

time to wake up and smell the coffee, these trends are verifiable, set and growing, and it's not a pretty picture for working Americans, or for those Americans who part of the long term unemployed. we are losing our edge, and both political parties share the blame for it.

BrotherDog BrotherDog
Sep '15

Technology and outsourcing are two of the main reasons more and more people are losing their jobs. Really big corporations, especially banks are steering people to do everything online. I like the "save a stamp, pay online ", causing more people to lose their jobs. They use terms like "going green " when the reality is these large corporations don't give a rats butt ,much less believe in saving the planet or global warming.... oops, sorry, the politically correct word.." climate change ". While I agree that climate change is really hurting the planet, it's mostly from pollution, killing everything in the ocean, and the melting glaciers. Most republicans don't buy into the global warming idea, yet they want to go paperless... not to save the planet, it's a great cover up for "we have to beat earnings, again and firing another few thousand employees will give the CEO another multi million dollar bonus"

sparksjbc1964 sparksjbc1964
Sep '15

Sorry, but paying online makes sense. Those who open envelopes and all of the savings and less carbon footprint makes sense. Sorry again, but those folks need to find new work and if the government could help without further bankrupting us that would be great...


so who here helps keep people employed? when given a choice at a checkout, do you ever use the self-check? every time you do, you're voting, telling the company please let go of the clerks you employ.

ken e
Sep '15

BDog makes an interesting argument but the STEM discussion is really a macro-level debate waged to either end or increase the H1B program. The law is clear: prove domestic talent is not available to grant foreign workers US work visas and pay said workers commensurate U.S. salaries. If there is a problem, the answer is simple: sue them for damages on an individual or class action level.

Much of the data against H1B using STEM "statistics" is anecdotal and not statistical. Even when numbers are provided, they are often supported by anecdotal data. Much of the data can be refuted as not statistically verifiable at the current time. Again, the answer is easy: take them to court.

IMHO attracting the best STEM talent on a global basis makes America stronger and boosts our economy for all Americans. The goal should be to make the program follow the law and be effective to increase our economy. Salient debate points are what should the cap be and how can we better police the program to be sure we are filling voids and not flooding the market with cheap labor. Perhaps punitive actions those found guilty of gaming the system need to be increased.

Regarding STEM jobs, some of your comments are funny like "STEM workers face stark choices: Settle for less money, or work harder and more skillfully than the guy coming for your job — or both." STEM wages are still some of the highest in the nation; the fact that STEM workers face foreign competition and therefore have to work harder and more skillfully can be viewed as a good thing if you believe competition increases positive results. One can make the argument that foreign workers being paid commensurate wages depresses wage increases but given STEM wages are some of the highest in the nation it's hard to ask consumers to pay more due to a labor shortage wage increase in the talent end of business just so STEM workers don't have to work harder or smarter.

Here are a couple of responses to your data summarized as:

"MYTH: Lowering the number of immigrants would free up jobs for American workers.
FACT: Immigration helps create jobs for American workers.

MYTH: Foreign workers displace American workers in the science, technology, engineering, and math (STEM) fields.
FACT: Employment data show that there are not enough native-born STEM workers to fill available STEM jobs and foreign STEM workers are not displacing their native-born counterparts.

MYTH: STEM professional wages are stagnant and immigrants in STEM professional jobs are not needed.
FACT: Wages are increasing for STEM professionals and U.S. companies have hard-to-fill positions that require STEM degrees with specific skills.

MYTH: Foreign workers take one in five jobs in America.
FACT: Americans fill more than 91 percent of all jobs in America.

MYTH: Lesser-skilled immigrants take jobs away from Americans without college degrees.
FACT: The data show that immigration does not negatively impact American workers without college degrees. In fact, lesser-skilled immigrants create jobs for Americans and grow crucial sectors of our economy.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=9&ved=0CFkQFjAIahUKEwiq47HAioPIAhUJax4KHaxmCuM&url= http%3A%2F%2Fwww.semiconductors.org%2Fclientuploads%2Fdirectory%2FDocumentSIA%2FWorkforce%2F19%2520Associations%2520Immigration%2520Myth%2520Facts%25203-2015.pdf&usg=AFQjCNGTex4-4Dc1I5492n6TbCi7mpj2ag

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CDAQFjACahUKEwiq47HAioPIAhUJax4KHaxmCuM&url= http%3A%2F%2Fwww2.itif.org%2F2015-debunking-myths-high-skilled.pdf&usg=AFQjCNG8uZWeT-kPEVGBhEkSLov2ouKktA

strangerdanger strangerdanger
Sep '15

Not exactly a scientific study, however, I've been trying to hire skilled IT developers for the past 6 months and have had ZERO STEM graduates apply for the position. The only responses we've had thus far are H1B candidates through multiple placement firms. We are even willing to train STEM's in the specific technology yet no takers.

I fully understand and appreciate the concerns raised around H1B's, however, given the current market conditions, they might be my only option.

taxedtodeath taxedtodeath
Sep '15

TTDeath. Interesting. So how does that work? Sounds like you post an help wanted ad, but then get bombarded by prospective h1b candidates. Do you still have to initiate the H1B request on their behalf?

Sounds like an onerous expensive process, is it?

strangerdanger strangerdanger
Sep '15

since December 2007, according to the Household Survey, only 790,000 native born American jobs have been added. Contrast that with the 2.1 million foreign-born Americans who have found a job over the same time period...

taxed-to-death - what jobs are you trying to fill? and how much are you paying? details please, (love your name, absolutely love it)

BrotherDog BrotherDog
Sep '15

Contrast BDog's anti-immigration zealot's cherry pickins with the fact that since 2009, according to the Household Survey, approximately only 10,000,000 native born American jobs have been added as compared to the 4,000,000 foreign-born Americans who have found a job over the same time period...

That and all the other retorts made by posters noted above provides a more complete picture. Fact is we do have a greater percentage of foreign workers in our workforce but it's not the tsunami that BDog is fearful of.

I noted some H1B facts and issues above, the other foreign worker topic hot off the campaign trail is undocumented workers or illegal aliens. Do we have to build the wall? Do we need to deport 11 million workers?

To stop undocumented workers, along with Donald Trump there are many here that would cut their nose to spite their face in defense of the rule of law.

I say it does not make common, practical or financial sense to depend on the wall to stop undocumented workers and have an alternative. Improve or create secure employment verification and housing verification systems combined with tougher penalties for offenders and greater enforcement. Either replace or fix the way underused e-verification system.

I say it does not make common, practical or financial sense to deport 11 million foreign workers when we only have 8 million unemployed native workers. Even if native workers would take all the jobs, we don't have enough workers. Find a path instead to keep the good workers and deport the bad people only.

So that's H1B and undocumented workers; next will be the last topic: outsourcing. It's the trickiest in my book.

strangerdanger strangerdanger
Sep '15

i agree with bessie when she said - "Another large insurance company outsources most of their clerical and rating to India. These were jobs held by people in this country who were making better than minimum wage with benefits. Guess it was cutting too much into their profits."


she is right as rain on this.

BrotherDog BrotherDog
Sep '15

nyt's has it right as well" Cute. You pull an op-ed piece written by an anti-immigration CIS operative and call it news.

"Bureau of Labor Statistics data show that there are some 58 million working-age (16 to 65) native-born Americans not working." That's not working versus unemployed. Not working includes retired, semi-retired, disabled, wanderers, vacationers and kids in school. In other words, includes people self-identified as Not In The Workforce. They are not looking for employment. Amazingly, using the same CIS data and bringing the age to 23-54 and your 58 million becomes 23 million. Get the drift.

But thanks for pointing out all those lazy school kids and pensioned retirees who need their butt kicked to get off their proverbials and get a job.

strangerdanger strangerdanger
Sep '15

Definitely a matter of great concern. It seems in general the better employees are foreigners. Why so?

I would think this is symptomatic of our poor education system. This itself has many causes, probably too complex to go into here.

Restricting immigration may help Americans in the short term, but we will lose our competitiveness in the long term.


Re: 698K Native-born Americans lost their jobs last month

we are preparing our kids for a future that doesn't exist. both political parties have sold the american worker down the river. the left/right paradigm has left American citizens behind in the dust. (and unemployed and unemployable) this needs to change:

Mike Rowe has a good take on it:


Everyday on the news, liberal pundits and politicians portray the wealthy as greedy, while conservative pundits and politicians portray the poor as lazy. Democrats have become so good at denouncing greed, Republicans now defend it. And Republicans are so good at condemning laziness, Democrats are now denying it even exists. It's a never ending dance that gets more contorted by the day.

A few weeks ago in Georgetown, President Obama accused Fox News of “perpetuating a false narrative” by consistently calling poor people “lazy.” Fox News denied the President’s accusation, claiming to have only criticized policies, not people. Unfortunately for Fox, The Daily Show has apparently gained access to the Internet, and after a ten-second google-search and a few minutes in the edit bay, John Stewart was on the air with a devastating montage of Fox personnel referring to the unemployed as “sponges,” “leeches,” “freeloaders,” and “mooches.” http://www.washingtonpost.com/…/daily-shows-jon-stewart-bu…/

Over the next few days, the echo chamber got very noisy. The Left howled about the bias at Fox and condemned the one-percent, while the Right shrieked about the bias at MSNBC and bemoaned the growing entitlement state.

But through all the howling and shrieking, no one said a word about the millions of jobs that American companies are struggling to fill right now.

No one talked the fact that most of those jobs don’t require an expensive four-year degree.

And no one mentioned the 1.2 trillion dollars of outstanding student loans, or the madness of lending money we don’t have to kids who can’t pay it back, educating them for jobs that no longer exist.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/419631/dirty-jobs-star-delivers-devastating-rebuke-about-americas-work-ethic-mark-antonio

BrotherDog BrotherDog
Oct '15

Wait, so now there's millions of jobs waiting? Where are those undocumented workers?

strangerdanger strangerdanger
Oct '15

"no one mentioned the 1.2 trillion dollars of outstanding student loans"

"or the madness of lending money we don’t have to kids who can’t pay it back"

"educating them for jobs that no longer exist."

BrotherDog BrotherDog
Oct '15

I'm sure there is a lot more going on than can be laid at the feet of political parties.

For example, consider perhaps what is our football craze is doing to our educational system and to society. I'm sure we can all come up with other examples.


So IMHO undocumented workers and H1B status issues are relatively inexpensive and easy issues to solve if Congress had the resolve to do anything. Unfortunately to solve undocumented workers using a secure verifiable identification system will erode our personal freedoms somewhat but it's a brave new world. Then we have to deal with the 11M here, but to me, that's just a negotiation as to who stays and who goes. Just don't understand why there is so much politics surrounding this stuff.

"Outsourcing" is a much more complex set of problems. First because it's two problems: outsourcing as in hiring foreign companies to do what Americans used to and hiring your own workers and facilities in foreign countries. It's hard to know how bad the problem is because company's don't have to report and Congress has not done their job to get an accurate count. Can't blame the company's but again Congress should do its job. Also it's hard to prove the economic pain from hiring overseas. Sure, we know the personal pain of folks losing jobs, but at a 5% unemployment rate, it's hard to blame outsourcing.

Also, at the same time, foreign companies hire Americans, over 5 million of them with hundreds of billions of investments to support them. What happens to that when we start punitive actions for outsourcing?

Some summaries: https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/labor/news/2012/07/09/11898/5-facts-about-overseas-outsourcing/

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/04/19/159555/us-corporations-outsourced-americans/

And a review of the top five US employers, perhaps the most telling: http://www.forbes.com/sites/susanadams/2011/04/19/jobs-at-big-u-s-firms-move-overseas/

As the Forbes article indicates the reasons for moving can be varied: lower costs, more international sales, and looking for talent pools. Americans may want the jobs to return home but are we willing to pay additional cost to do so? Most of the solutions that bring jobs home will increase consumer prices, taxes, or both. Even if we just said no and made laws to support that, the effect would be much higher US prices for goods and services.

Fact is economically we really don't want to stop this, we don't want to lower our standard of living just to save some factory jobs. We just need to find a way to ease the short-term pain of entire industries leaving the US overnight.

Possible solutions:
1. The Trump method: punitive excise taxes on foreign goods and services
2. A kinder gentler Trump method: tax incentives to bring workers home
3. Lower the bridge method: Lower our standard of living - just accept the pay and benefits foreign workers do
4. Raise the bridge: Restrict foreign goods and services unless foreign and benefits equals the US
5. End stuff: end Unions, EPA and anything else that makes the US hard to do business in
6. Personal method: just go get a job overseas. In you are into call centers, you could get a great job in India, teach English as a side job for extra cash and live like a king, at least an Indian king.
7. Pay more for stuff, buy American

There's probably some more too but you can see where most of these would cause us to pay more for things. I think long term there's not a lot to do if someone is willing to make things for less than we are. I am sorry but Buy American just does not cut it for me if I can get a quality product for less money overseas. Frankly that's a good thing for them to build their economy and have a better life and a good thing for us to keep prices and inflation lower so we can have a better economy and better life. Short term, people get fired and there is personal pain. I think we can do things to help at least.

IMHO we should immediately raise the bridge strengthen our laws and positions on having level playing fields. Like anti-dumping laws, we should have anti-unfair worker laws forbidding any business with countries that hire kids, totally unfair wages, pollute, etc. Just say no to getting products and services from these countries until they clean up their act.

Tax incentives: perhaps not to stop but at least to slow jobs moving overseas, target certain industries with tax incentives to hire US. Rather than the punitive Trump method where we punish for legal actions, instead incent for positive actions. Should be on a timed basis so we don't "subsidize" American jobs forever, but at least slow the hemorrhaging until we can retool, retrain for better activities.

Similar incentives or even disincentives might be applied to foreign companies doing business here but not hiring Americans.

It's a tough problem, one we really don't know the extent of our where it will cause us a lot of pain in the near future, thank you very much Congress for defending America.... And the solutions are not all that soothing unless we are willing to pay more for goods and services we can get for less.

strangerdanger strangerdanger
Oct '15

Football craze? What does that have to do with anything? Every country in the world has an overwhelming passion for one sport or another.

ianimal ianimal
Oct '15

I'm with you, Ian.

There have been so many successful people who grew up playing sports.

The Ivy League has sports, and values them.

As Chris Carter would say, "c'mon, MAN."

For the conservatives, Ronald Reagan was a sports announcer.

OK?

Andy Loigu Andy Loigu
Oct '15

He spells it Cris Carter, most fans know him as CC.

As for issues with employment and the economy, we're doing it to ourselves...

shooting ourselves in the old proverbial foot.

C'mon, Man.

I don't care to discuss politics, it is all so poopadoodle.

Andy Loigu Andy Loigu
Oct '15

I don't know if the craze of sports in general, and football in particular, contributes to the poor overall performance of education here, but it certainly deserves to be part of the discussion.

Here is one (of many) articles that asks the question. Luckily this article is very short.

http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/have-sports-teams-brought-down-americas-schools


another loss of 262K jobs; a devastating month for american citizens losing their jobs:

Jobs up only for immigrants, +14,000, down 262,000 for 'native-borns'

For a third month in a row, native-born Americans saw their job numbers tumble while immigrants experience solid gains.

According to the montly Bureau of Labor Statistics numbers just released, "foreign-born" jobs numbers increased by 14,000, while those for "native-born" Americans fell off a cliff, by 262,000.

Over the past three months, the job numbers for native-born have dropped by nearly 1 million, exactly the number of jobs President Obama promised to add when he ran for re-election in 2012.

During that period, jobs for immigrants grew 218,000.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/jobs-up-only-for-immigrants-14000-down-262000-for-native-borns/article/2573290

BrotherDog BrotherDog
Oct '15

Actually what BLS said for September was http://money.cnn.com/2015/09/04/news/economy/august-jobs-report-2/

And today, a slow down report including reducing September's gains: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/03/business/economy/jobs-report-hiring-unemployment-wages-fed-rates.html?_r=0

Here's the point. For the past three months, and 167,000 jobs per month, 401,000 jobs have been created. That's below the previous 12 months at 200,000 per month

BDogs numbers, supposedly from the same source, show native job losses at 1 million, immigrant jobs adds at 218,000.

Since the actual BLS job increase was 401,000 over the past three months, one can only wonder.
.

strangerdanger strangerdanger
Oct '15

According to the monthly Bureau of Labor Statistics numbers just released:

"foreign-born" jobs numbers increased by 14,000

jobs for "native-born" Americans were reduced by 262,000

over the past three months, the job numbers for native-born have dropped by nearly 1 million

during that period, jobs for immigrants grew 218,000.

BrotherDog BrotherDog
Oct '15

....funny, when I first read the title of this post, I thought it was about Native Americans... interesting, no?

pmnsk pmnsk
Oct '15

Do you have the BLS link for those numbers that you keep repeating BroDog?

Do they include retirees and students like your previous post did?

strangerdanger strangerdanger
Oct '15

JP Morgan lays off 10,000 workers in the last year; from the FT website yesterday:

Bank of America said it had closed or divested a net 206 branches over the past year, taking its total to 4,741. JPMorgan cut by 142 to end the period with 5,471 branches, saying it had reduced total headcount in the consumer division by about 10,000 so far this year.

BrotherDog BrotherDog
Oct '15

Capitalism at its best people. You don't want a socialistic government to protect US employees. This is what you get.

emaxxman emaxxman
Oct '15

So a company that cannot afford to keep people on their payroll due to lower demand somehow is a problem that a socialistic government can deal with? How so? No demand = no jobs, no matter what form of government is in place.

I guess we could talk about the imbalance of salary distribution within a company and complain that cutting top-heavy folks is a better answer than cutting lower level employees. If that's the case, what is the driver of top-end greed and how can that be addressed? Other than by forcibly taxing (with built-in loop holes, of course) the top end, what can be done? A socialist government can only take over the company and redistribute profits according to socialist principles, but that has been proven to fail many times over already.

So what else can be done?

justintime justintime
Oct '15

These financial downsizings have a number of causes including declining revenues, technology, regulation and market focus.

One of JPMorgans, and others, biggest reasons in this round is regulatory compliance. Not only has increased regulations lowered the loan rate causing firings but conversely the new 2009 regulations caused a huge increase in compliance officers needed. Now the finance companies have got this under control with newly established processes and the need has subsided and this round of layoffs is a massive reduction in compliance officers. This ebb and flow has been seen after every round of changes in financial regulations. The compliance officers frankly should have seen it coming not that that reduces the personal pain.

BOA, and other banks are reacting party due to the decline in local banking. Less residential loans and mortgages, more on-line, more self service, it's all pinching the local office and they are closing and consolidating just like the big box pharmacies. BOA has also decided to target self service lowering offices and increase on-line and kiosk banking, Time will tell whether they caught the wave or are stuck in a vast ocean of nothingness.

I think these are about 10% hits to the employee roster; that's a pretty big hit but hardly a tsunami. When considering the numerous reasons, it makes sense and it's not necessarily the cause of a failing economy versus a shifting economy due to customer demands, regulation and technology offers. That is capitalism at it's finest. Socialism would be to retain them and keep the offices open without upgrading technology for on-line or self service.

PS: I've been picking BOA to go belly up for years; they have been bloating and out of customer touch forever. I was shocked that it took this long for them to take the big hits; I bailed from these yo-yo's in 2011.

strangerdanger strangerdanger
Oct '15

Fifty-one percent of working Americans make less than $30,000 a year. quoted from the dailycaller:

In 2014, half of working Americans reported an income at or below $28,851 (the median wage), and 51 percent reported an income of less than $30,000. Forty percent are making less than $20,000. The federal government considers a family of four living on an income of less than $24,250 to be impoverished.

A chart below from SSA shows that the difference between the median wage and the average wage continues to widen, signaling a declining middle class. These numbers are not adjusted for inflation.

That’s $2,500 a month before taxes and just over the federal poverty level for a family of five. The new numbers come from the National Wage Index, which SSA updates each year based on reported wages subject to the federal income tax.

In 2014, half of working Americans reported an income at or below $28,851 (the median wage), and 51 percent reported an income of less than $30,000. Forty percent are making less than $20,000. The federal government considers a family of four living on an income of less than $24,250 to be impoverished.

The wage index doesn’t take into account the eight million Americans who are unemployed, or the tens of millions of working age Americans who are not participating in the job market. Nearly 40 percent of Americans are not working, which is the lowest participation rate since 1977.

Although the unemployment rate has dropped from double-digits in the height of the 2008 recession to about 5 percent in the latest jobs report, wages have remained largely stagnant.

Wages and share of income for the bottom 90 percent of American wage-earners declined over the past 40 years, as the foreign-born population increased dramatically, according to the Congressional Research Service (CRS).

CRS charted the correlation between wages and the number of foreign-born workers in the U.S. between 1945 and 2010. Before 1970, wages rose sharply as the number of foreign-born persons declined. But after 1970, that population increased dramatically as wages stagnated, increased slightly and then dropped.

BrotherDog BrotherDog
Oct '15

How long is this thread going to go on? What are you doing to change your circumstances? You can get a job at the Shoprite bakery making more than $30K a year. Hell, min wage gets you almost 20K. Take charge of your life.

Now, what happened to Chris Christie, the greatest governor the state of NJ has ever seen?! Oh that's right, he only took care of the rich! It's amazing that you keep posting these sob stories but you were touting Christie simply for his hard stance on teachers' salaries.

Good luck with Trump, Carson, and the rest of the Tea Party douchebags. I'm sure they'll be looking out for you too.

You want to cut government down and let the free market reign? This is what you get. Capitalism of the early 1900's. Offshoring, outsourcing, and low wages. But it's what you wanted.

emaxxman emaxxman
Oct '15

who are you talking to?

BrotherDog BrotherDog
Oct '15

Your anger is misplaced emaxx. It's the structure of our economic system that's the problem, not those who seek to change it or capitalism itself.

justintime justintime
Oct '15

emaxx - these numbers are from the congressional research -

Wages and share of income for the bottom 90 percent of American wage-earners declined over the past 40 years, as the foreign-born population increased dramatically, according to the Congressional Research Service (CRS).

BrotherDog BrotherDog
Oct '15

Now a real earth shattering story would be if 51% were below the median income level :>)

strangerdanger strangerdanger
Oct '15

There is no one watching out for me, but me.There used to be a little Conscious Capitalism at one time. Once the Government got so big brother, and had to raise more funds, corporations have whole departments that figure how to get out of paying taxes and off shore jobs. Thats where we progressed to.

Old Gent Old Gent
Oct '15

BD - I was speaking to you. I'll admit, I don't think the Democrats have all the right answers and I certainly don't like a lot of the spending that occurs. With that said, it's clear that you lean faaaaaaaar right. In your words, Christie is the greatest governor the state has ever had. What's he done for you? What's Trump going to do for you? How about Carson?

I can certainly understand why some folks vote Republican. If it was only certain moral issues, eg 2A, abortion, etc., I'd vote Republican too. But it's been nothing but the party of big business and predatory capitalism (IMO) and the result is a working class with no consumer buying power.

Now as far as the working class goes, I do think there is some responsibility that needs to be put on the worker. Like I said, min wag gets you just under $18K (correction from my earlier figure). Aspire to be better than that and maybe you will. Don't coast through HS and you won't be part of the lower 50%.

JIT - We have experienced capitalism without boundaries. Predatory lenders, speculators, and CEO's who drove profits, not through product innovation or increasing revenue, but through mass layoffs of the middle class. Big business has been allowed to offshore employment or replace onshore US employees with cheaper foreign consultants while maintaining their tax cuts. That economic structure, in part, has been put in place by those that wish to handcuff the government and prevent it from watching out for us.

emaxxman emaxxman
Oct '15

"So a company that cannot afford to keep people on their payroll due to lower demand somehow is a problem that a socialistic government can deal with? How so? No demand = no jobs, no matter what form of government is in place. "


But a government that doesn't reward big businesses(via tax cuts, grants, subsidies) after they offshore thousands of workers could prevent the declination of that demand. Take an employee's salary and you reduce their demand because they no longer have any buying power.

That's what happened during the most recent economic collapse. Companies chose to layoff millions while the top executives cashed in on lucrative, short-term, stock-laden contracts. The middle class lost its buying power and that negative effect trickled to every single sector - from tax revenues for the govt. to the ability to support small businesses of every industry.

emaxxman emaxxman
Oct '15

emaxx - i have never supported the republicans or democrats doing this to our country, i have consistently advocated for polices/programs that help keep jobs here in the United States,

the repubs want cheap labor, the dems want low inofmation voters to vote for them, open boraders gives each party something, and that something hurts Americans who are trying to support their families. I have been quite consistent abbout this for 20 years (or more).

here, think about this:

The wage index doesn’t take into account the eight million Americans who are unemployed, or the tens of millions of working age Americans who are not participating in the job market. Nearly 40 percent of Americans are not working, which is the lowest participation rate since 1977.

we have a problem in this country that no one is addressing. that's why i speak out about it.

BrotherDog BrotherDog
Oct '15

I didn't read a single post of this thread. I just keep seeing it pop up.

Bottom line (and this goes for everything in life- not just jobs) - NOBODY OWES YOU ANYTHING.

Bottom line in quick simple words that nobody wants to hear- If someone will do the same task as you for less money- I don't blame anyone for using them.

Long version- An employer has a need, something he needs completed- a job. That job, that task, to him is worth a certain value. Someone wanting a job is simply filling a task, a slot. The more responsibility and skills there are, the more you are worth to the employer.

Yes, all employers will try to get by by spending the least they can for the most work done- but guess what? That is their decision to make, and it is logical.

The reality is that all humans at a basic level- wake, eat, poop, sleep. Anything beyond that, is incrementally more skill / worth. If somebody can do the same job as you, and they are OK with doing it for less money- that is on them. If many people are willing to do the same job for less money than you want- you aren't worth what you think you deserve.

If you want a job, if you want more money- make yourself more valuable.


and yes this quite true what you said: " Companies chose to layoff millions while the top executives cashed in on lucrative, short-term, stock-laden contracts. The middle class lost its buying power and that negative effect trickled to every single sector - from tax revenues for the govt. to the ability to support small businesses of every industry."


we have a problem here with an eroding middle class that is affecting the health of the Nation. it is not good for us long term and we need to address it. and soon.

BrotherDog BrotherDog
Oct '15

Senator Dick Durbin implores Illinois firm Abbott laboratories to not displace American workers with cheaper foreign replacements:

"Abbott Labs, a global healthcare company, is laying off about 180 IT employees after signing an agreement with Wipro, a major India-based IT services firm, to take over some IT services. The employees were told about the planned cuts on Feb. 22; their last day will be April 22.

"The workers are expecting to train their replacements, possibly workers on H-1B and other temporary visas."


"In a letter Monday to Abbott CEO Miles White, Durbin implored him "to reconsider this plan and retain these U.S. workers."

Dubin noted that he has "repeatedly introduced bipartisan legislation to end the exploitation of the H-1B and L-1 visa programs to displace qualified American workers and offshore American jobs."

http://www.computerworld.com/article/3039353/it-careers/sen-durbin-calls-abbott-labs-it-layoffs-harsh-and-insensitive.html

BrotherDog BrotherDog
Mar '16

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