Sparta shooting
Haven't been on the Forum for a while and I'm a bit surprised that no one has brought up the shooting up in Sparta by an off duty trooper. Seems some kids knocked on his door at 2 a.m. thinking it was their friends house and he took exception - understandably I guess, they took off scared and he starts shooting at their car, hitting it once. The kids call 911, Sparta cops come and haul them off and hold them for hours before release. Now if you or I came out blasting away for no good reason, there would have been 100's of cops in riot gear and we would have been thrown in jail ( if not shot to pieces) What do you suppose will happen to this trooper?
CynicMost cops, and their families,get away with everything from speeding to shooting. Seen it personally. You're average "Joe" is more likely to get shot , than a policeman.
sparks1964jbc 
JerseyWolf You are correct JerseyWolf, that's what will be said, but resisted from what? They weren't being arrested.
Sounds similar to the story of the cop pulling over the driver because he was missing a front license plate and the cop shoots him for NO reason and kills him. They are so
gun happy!
botheredbyuu2 
Ms Fishy Ms. Fishy. If you fired on teens simply for knocking on your door at 2 am, you'd still be in jail.
Gadfly Ms. Fishy are u touched in the head??? I hope u don't own any firearms!!! N if u do please get rid of them ASAP!!!! What this trooper did was wrong!!!! He should be held accountable for his actions!!!
Mr.tone Let me guess, the "I didn't do anything wrong just knocked" story came from the teens. Sounds to me like some are ready to condemn the officer without any facts.
Wasn't it in Sparta where some teens lured 2 pizza deliverymen to their death simply because they were bored?
Bonv I think I will wait for more facts before drawing any conclusions here. Something seems amiss with the story to me.
http://www.njherald.com/story/29676352/2015/07/31/trooper-chased-fleeing-teens-after-shooting-at-car
Calico696 On a side note, I guess these young men know the parents will defend their kids no matter what. If I was knocking on doors at 2am to party, I would not be hurrying to tell my parents. It was never used on me, but there was a working belt in the house.
maja Let's wait for the whole story. Why did they not stop when he identified himself as a trooper? I read one article that stated one of them went to the back door. Why would you go to the back door at that hour and possibly scare other people in the house they were supposedly just going to visit. There are too many unanswered questions here to just blame the trooper.
Of the two offences, firing your weapon at unarmed people who are running away from you is a bit more serious than knocking on the wrong door at 2 am. This guy is going to lose his job.
If they were truly at the wrong house why would they not stay when he identified himself as a cop and they swerved at him that is why he fired his weapon. A car can be used as a weapon
How many times must I tell people cops are the worst group of people I have ever run into believe me I had to work with them most of my adult life they would pullover my trucks constantly because according to them my quote donation to their fund whatever that is wasn't big enough they would also hassle my employees all the time in the 30 or so years I had to deal with them I could count on one hand how many of them were not out to get something that is why I can imagine how bad they treat poor people and minorities and these people are now getting tired of it and are starting to fight back and yes there is white privilege in this country no matter how much conservatives tell you there is NOT
From what I read about the incident, only the officer claimed he identified himself as a police officer; the three other people claimed he didn't. It's also possible he did identify himself, and they didn't hear him--or didn't hear him properly. (When you're running in fear from a man with a gun, you don't necessary stop to ask him to clarify what he's shouting at you.) Or maybe they just didn't believe him. The teens also claimed he had a laser-sight on his weapon, which your average citizen would associate with a military tactical team . . . or an assassin. If a guy came running at me, at night, pointing a weapon with a laser-sight, I would have my doubts, as well.
As for going to the back door? Heck, my friends and I did such things, when we were younger. They had the wrong house. Mistakes happen. If the police have a search warrant but kick down the door of the wrong house, they expect to be excused for the honest mistake. And I've seen no report of an attempted break-in--only that they knocked.
And as for shooting them while they were driving away? The officer claimed the teens' car swerved at him, and he fired in defense. But that argument makes no sense, for several reasons.
1. If the car was that close, the best defense would be to dive out of the way, not to aim and fire a weapon.
2. The incident allegedly happened on a cul-de-sac. The teens had to turn around, to drive out of it. There was no report of the teens driving on lawns. Therefore, the officer must have run out of his house and into the road, knowing that the car would be coming in his direction, knowingly putting himself in danger for no reason.
3. It happened in a residential area. Firing weapons in such areas is dangerous, because a bullet could miss or ricochet, penetrate a house, and kill an innocent victim--and police are taught such things. There was no apparent substantial evidence the teens were dangerous or had committed any crime. Therefore, it was not a critical emergency to stop the teens at all cost. The only way for the officer to be even reasonably certain his shots wouldn't threaten people nearby would be to take careful aim at the car. And you can't do that while diving out of the way, which would mean that instead of trying to avoid the car that was allegedly coming right at him, he decided to fire at it. But even if he had shot the driver in the head, the car would still be coming right at him, so that is an illogical tactic.
Therefore, according to the evidence, the teens committed no crimes, and there is no logical, legal justification for him to have fired a weapon at them--even if he DID identify himself, and even if he DID believe that his life was in danger. So, at best, he is completely incompetent; as worst, he committed criminal offenses.
Nothing personal but I can't trust anything the kids are saying and find their actions completely suspicious. I will not excuse their actions as a simple mistake until more facts are available. All I can say is that if someone tried to enter my house (front or back door) at 1:30/2:00 AM I would not view it as an innocent mistake/prank - in this day and age that's a pretty serious act.
Sadly, the Police deal with the worst of society and sometimes these criminals are not happy about being ticketed or arrested and jailed. It's not uncommon for these type of people (really dangerous, think nothing of hurting or killing someone) to make threats against the Police. All Police Officers are aware of this and will protect their family.
Let's see what the facts are before we make a determination of what happened in this incident.
sosadsad Nana always said nothing good happens after midnight. Case in point.
I will wait until the AG's office is done with their investigation before passing judgement.
JrzyGirl88 If these kids were attempting to break into the house or were high or drunk, the Sparta cops would have never ever released them without charges period. Sure, knocking on a door at 2 a.m. may not be the smartest thing but whoever said that teens used their heads. Should be fairly simple to verify if whomever they were looking for lived nearby. This cop, Kissinger Barreau (????) should have simply got the plate number and called the Sparta cops instead of standing in the road blasting away like another Rambo or Dirty Harry wannabe. No dash cam or body cam here, no minorities involved so no media frenzy, just he said she said. The Sparta and state cops will most likely say nothing so the great blue wall of silence will probably prevail.
Cynic, according to the news reports, they already did verify that the person the teens were looking for lived on the same street.
And as for the others alleging that the teens were at the house for some nefarious business, one of the teens apparently GAVE THE OFFICER HIS NAME. The teen's name was given out over the police dispatch.
Now, if I'm a cop, and some teen knocks on my door late at night, and tells me his name and who he's looking for, my first assumption would NOT be that the kid is trying to rob my house.
Justintime The blue wall of silence is going to have a tough time on this one. There isn't a legitimate reason for firing at a fleeing vehicle. It will be interesting to see the details as they are released. I wonder if the shooter had to submit to a toxicology screening.
So if a group of teenager's come to any of your home's after midnight "unannounced"....not one of you would be upset, concerned ,scared, or in fear for your safety or that of your families ??
I guess you would all ask the teenagers to "freeze" while you analyze the situation. ( none of you would react the way you predict or state......no one knows until it happens to them.
The police are subject to critique in their jobs every day and they are being shot / executed at random thruogh out the country ...What has happened to respect for authority ? If you came to my home at that hour , unannounced, likely I would shoot as well. But thats just me .
Steven And you'd go to jail. The only reason the shooter is not locked up is because he wears a blue uniform to work.
according to the law, in most cases, you can only answer a threat with a response commensurate to that threat.
If someone punches you once in the face and stops, you cannot stab them. If someone yells at you and shoves you, you cannot take out a gun and shoot them. Unless, of course you're in Florida (and othe "stand your ground" states).
so, in this case, there is absolutely no reason this cop should have fired his weapon.
Great question, Gadfly. I too was wondering if this guy was all beer'd-up and watching the Die Hard marathon on TNT. I can only imagine him taking aim at the teen's vehicle: "yippy kie yay, MFer"
Steven & Ms Fishy,
So if someone ran out of gas or hit a deer and come to your door at 2am for help.. your answer is to shoot them?
I'm not saying you shouldn't be prepared for the worst, and not go to the door with a side arm. I served in the U.S. Army and 100% think everyone has the right to arm and protect themselves...BUT...
I'm saying you would need a DAMN GOOD REASON to chase them into the street and fire 3-4 rounds into their car!!
Josh Read the story 3 times. See NO justification in what he did. He should be charged with something.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/nj-trooper-shot-teens-ran-article-1.2310424
911 audio released
http://www.nj.com/morris/index.ssf/2015/07/listen_trooper_followed_teens_after_shooting_teen.html
this whole thing is a gross use of force and resources by Trooper Barreau and the system which allowed it to happen.
Skippy Just a thought to throw out there. A relative of mine once had a stranger pounding and shouting wildly at his door. As it turned out, the guy was driving by and saw flames licking out of the roof, caused by a damaged chimney for the wood-burning stove. If he hadn't stopped, things would have ended up much worse.
Sometimes, it pays not to shoot first and ask questions later.
I couldn't sleep the other night. Wanted to take a walk at 3am. I couldn't because I didn't get a chance to knock on every door (during daytime)I would pass, to make sure it wasn't a "known crack house " that I happen to walk by during the night and have the cops hassle me for just standing or walking nearby.So... just stayed home.
Yep.... we are free alright.
I know knocking at 2am is different (didn't justify shooting a gun off), just saying we are NOT really free as we can't even walk anywhere or anytime we want unless "cop approved "....and at 3am nowhere is "approved ". It's called "suspicious activity".
It is not "usual and accepted behavior " to be knocking on anyone's door at that hour of the morning , and is indeed "suspicious behavior" to do so.
So yes, I would answer the door , being prepared to defend myself, and yes, if some one came to the back door at the same time I was involved at the front door, is it very likely I would be inclinded to protect myself.
I am quite ok with defending myself and my family , "before ' I am a victim .
As far as not being allowed to defend my family , I will gladly argue that with a court of law.
Those teenagers are anything but children in todays world and although a bit sad, in today's world, kids are no longer allowed a childhood involving any pranks, today everything is serious and everyone is accountable . How about holding the teenagers to the very "same standards" you are all expecting of the police officer ? ( I am fairly certain their parents will not be so accepting of that ) ...just my opinion
Of course we must wait for the facts to come in.
From the kids side, they knock on a door, guy with gun answers, they run, they try to drive away but guy with gun is in the street, fires at them. Did he id himself as cop? Did he show the gun? Unless he was dressed as a cop, who cares. Or just a guy with a gun chasing and firing at you for just knocking on his door late at night.
From cop side. Thinks three late teenagers are doing damage by knocking on the door late. Some kind of strange robbery/home invasion where you knock first. ID yourself, wave gun, and give chase when they run. Stand in road to stop them and fire away when they don't. Jump in car and chase.
Meanwhile if they held these kids for 8+ hours and one on them in handcuffs for a long period, that's just not right. Seems like they could get to the bottom of things a lot faster unless they were performing a CYA on behalf of the cop. No arrest. That's just shameful.
No administrative leave? This cop should take a break at least.
My bet is cop or cops are in trouble especially from civil suits. If this was my kid, I would be all over them for holding him without arrest.
strangerdanger No, the teenagers, nor any other civilian, should not be held to the same standard. Law enforcement is empowered with authority over us. Police, therefore must exhibit conduct and behavior beyond reproach. At times, they will make mistakes because they are human. When mistakes are made, they need to be open to review and critique.
The above is not a statement regarding the shooting.
emaxxman exman,
That "is a large part of the problem"....we cannot be selective in "whom" needs to be respectful or accountable....the standards MUST apply to all.
There is no entitlement as many seem to believe, trust, respect must be mutual, we are not that different from each other, EVERYONE must show respect, young adults ( teenagers ) included.
And who is it that raised them to be this way !???
As a teenager, I would never consider banging on anyones door at that hour of the morning unless I werer in trouble.....just not any valid reason otherwise . But I was raised in a different time, we respected authority and each other.
Today's Daily Record website reports that the Sparta teens involved with this matter have filed lawsuits re this incident. Strangerdanger (AKA googleman) called this one right. Perhaps now, the "blue wall of lies and silence" will be breached as the "investigation" has apparently been buried somewhere. NJCom had a piece awhile back about this and showed a picture of "Kissinger" Barreau's 500k house in Sparta, state police must pay well.
"500k house in Sparta, state police must pay well."
Inheritance, wife that has a good job, wise investments, lotter win. .......lots of ways besides salary to live in a house at that price.
Here's the link to the article.
http://www.dailyrecord.com/story/news/local/2015/12/02/sparta-teens-file-lawsuit-trooper-fired-car/76664744/
Without knowing all the facts of this specific story and being married to a Cpl. in a police department I must say that if someone knocked on our door at 2 AM my husband would most likely grab his firearm as well... and I would want him to! Not that I am condoning actually drawing a weapon without good reason but he would definitely have it near by if needed. My husband, and our family, have been threatened by some of those my husband has arrested... Some of those being extremely violent people and those affliated with gangs. With all the negative attention law enforcement is getting it is hard to hear so much negative feedback about police. Yes, there are definitely those who have made unwise choices and deserve to lose their jobs and serve time themselves. However, the majority of officers are good people who went into the field to protect their communities. When there is a gunman in a mall, at a theater, at a school my husband would be the first to get in there and risk his life to save others whether he is in uniform or not... Possibly your brother, mother, child. Honestly hearing such negativity makes me want to tell my husband not to protect people, not to risk his life for others... But I know there are people out there who are grateful, they just aren't heard as frequently these days. Not only that, my husband loves his job and feeling like he's making a difference... Dispite those of you trying to tear him and brothers down.
Danielle No problem with having gun ready at a 2am door knocking especially for a policeperson who might be threatened because of job. And thanks to all who serve these dangerous jobs.
And maybe he had reason to fire upon the unarmed car, that's worthy at least of investigation even if the police ruled it justifiable. Question will be did it swerve or not and that will be hard to prove either way.
Point I had made earlier is the issue seems to be the 8-hour incarceration for door knocking during inappropriate hours. That's just wrong.
Danielle you seem to be very proud of your husband and his position which is great, but in all fairness the negative attention that some policemen have received is well deserved. Of course there are good and bad in every field/position as we all know. Unfortunately the "brotherhood" that you speak of is what often protects the bad in this particular field. In saying that I think most of us are grateful for the ones that do serve and protect our communities.
JRT Was there recent burglaries in the area? Did the kids match possible descriptions? Was their story corroborated by the "friend"? Was the trooper acting in official capacity by identifying himself and attempting to get the answer why they knocked on his door at 2am?(and if so, why would they flee if they were just at the wrong house?) Did the car swerve towards the trooper? Did all of the kids stories line up?
MOST IMPORTANTLY:
Did the trooper feel he himself or the public was in danger of death or serious bodily injury?(if so, would an officer with similar training and experience act the same reasonable way?) What is the troopers track record- Internal invests/ external complaints?
Maybe an answer to these questions would help those monday morning quarterbacks.......then again.....maybe not....
Getthefacts well said Danielle. Oldred. Do you really think police hasseled you because you didn't contribute to some sort of fund? I bet you are or were a local business person that thinks laws don't apply to you and when you were ticketed squealed how much you pay in taxes, or how important you are. Sounds to me you got angry because you were treated like any person should be treated and not like you are "special" and above the law.
boobalaa http://www.nj.com/sussex-county/index.ssf/2015/08/castle_stand-your-ground_sparta_trooper_teens.html
per the attorney general the trooper never claimed they attempted to hit him - he shot to stop the vehicle..
That's funny Boobalaa. I assume that you're law enforcement since you stated in the other thread that you have a carry permit. The only group that always seems to think that they are above the law are officers, and of course their families with those special pba cards they carry.
Maybe I missed it but I never saw where the Trooper called 911 which would have brought the local police to the scene (area does have its own force). He did use his radio to call the Troopers which would/could have been further away. Maybe it is protocol and the barracks called the local police?
Seems like someone that thought that there was some nefarious activity afoot should have called 911 prior to leaving their bedroom or house and shooting at a fleeing car if the argument is that it was a robbery attempt or someone that had been arrested and came back to exact some kind of revenge.
Anyone can identify themselves as a police officer in their pj's. Was there a State Police vehicle in the driveway visible? or was this a crazy guy that is pissed off that I rang the wrong doorbell at 2am and has a gun? Think I am taking off too.
This is not an anti anything/anyone rant rather the Trooper's argument seems weak for someone that has been trained to the level that they are. I wonder how the headline would have read if it was a regular "Joe" that had done this? "Crazy homeowner discharges weapon at fleeing car. Charges include discharging firearm within 1000ft of residence, standing in roadway without reflective clothing, not using Crest toothpaste etc" All sarcasm aside, Troopers have training above and beyond most of the public and should be have the presence of mind to access and react accordingly. I may have missed where it is it stated that the boys threatened him or brandished any weapons; even by the Trooper's account, they fled. Maybe retraining is in order as is a public apology?
Now here come the lawsuits; I don't blame them but we are going to have to pick up the tab because an off-duty trooper shot at a fleeing car. Cant help but think if he screamed at them and got the plate number etc and let the on-duty departments handle it we would not be in this position. I know that everyone makes mistakes but this seems, well, really kind of bad. Certainly could have been worse.
The boys were doing something stupid. I bet even the Trooper did something stupid when he was young. Even if it was the right house, I am pretty sure mom and dad would have been annoyed at the very least at having the door bell rung at 2am and may have called the police. Having said that, the boys did call 911 at some point after being shot at.
Things like this make people like Danielle's husband's or my close friend's jobs harder.
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