NYC Police Officer shot and Killed

NYC Police Officer shot and Killed

I want to know were we have to gather to Riot and loots stores do we have to supply our own Bottles and bricks do we stomp taxi cabs any one know ?

Caged Animal Caged Animal
May '15

on a second note my heart and sarrow goes out to the family of the officer

Caged Animal Caged Animal
May '15

Oh, didn't know he died. Last I heard he was in a medically induced coma.

Prayer and thoughts are with his family.

botheredbyuu2 botheredbyuu2
May '15

Usually at the nearest liquor store.

Booster90 Booster90
May '15

I don't have time to riot... too busy at work.

Mark Mc. Mark Mc.
May '15

Yeah seriously Mark. Most of these rioters are probably sitting on their steps drinking or selling drugs on a street corner during the day while normal people work.

Metsman Metsman
May '15

Did you ever notice that they never steal work shoes??????


Metsman
you seem today the authority around here exactly how do we tell the difference between rioters and normal people. Is there a secret handshake a article of clothing the color of our skins how exactly do we tell the difference I know I personally sit on my steps having a cold one with my buddies every now and then and I'm sure back in my younger days I was probably selling some weed to so I'm asking you to please let everyone know the difference

oldred
May '15

Having a cold one every now and then and selling some weed is a lot different then those animals who most likely do sit and drink everyday and night. And smoke and sell drugs as a living.

Booster90 Booster90
May '15

The difference is that they have their licquor and crack purchased from their welfare ( politically correct phrase would be "assistance" ) provided by us "the taxpayers ".....

Steven Steven
May '15

We are civilized. We contribute to society. They are leaches to society.

Philliesman Philliesman
May '15

Maybe "we" had better opportunities.


What a tragedy - I am saddened for his family and friends.


We ( the taxpayers), reward them with "more monies" every time they pop out a child", and we do not mandate anything in return..
Every time they destroy a neighborhood, we rebuild it for them, better each and every time. ( Newark has been constantly rebuilt for over 50 + years, they have had better opportunities offered more times, than many people I have known...Detroit, Camden, Trenton, Chester , Pennsylvania ..all ghetto's destroyed by the inhabitants , no one outside of their groups, they have chosen to live this way generation after generation after generation.
They have learned very well, indeed.
Recent Immigrants coming here from other countries have no regard for them, and will not live with them.

Steven Steven
May '15

The opportunities for a good job, the ability to get out of tough areas to live, happen to a few of the best and lucky. For most, the hardships are too difficult to overcome. Nevertheless, those that riot tend to be a minority of the people in the affected areas.

Stop and imagine growing up as a good person there.


thank you for being a voice of reason jd2

5catmom 5catmom
May '15

How about we just mourn the loss of a 25 year old kid that put the badge on everyday trying to protect the people of New York. My heart goes out to his family. Rest in peace brother.

Trueblue
May '15

You're right, trueblue.


Where is Al Sharpton???

Really?
May '15

We desperately need to get away from the tendency to dehumanize whole groups of people by calling them animals, leaches, etc. It's an easy cop out from actually understanding why people turn to drugs and crime when you make them sub-human or non-people.

The loss of an officer just doing his job is another whole tragedy.

eperot eperot
May '15

Here's to wishing for the death penalty for this guy. It's a shame NY did away with it.

btownguy btownguy
May '15

The death penalty needs to be implemented where is does exist, the laws we have are being laughed at, they are never carried thru.

Eperot, get "jumped a few times" and tell me how you feel then.
Had a close friend that was a nurse ,....during the riots in Newark he worked at the Martland medical center ...decided to go in work ( so he could "help" others, should he be needed ). He was jumped and cut up with razors and left to bleed out on the street .....
I have no sympathy for these animals .
My opinion ..

Steven Steven
May '15

Steven - please explain who is "them"

botheredbyuu2 botheredbyuu2
May '15

"How about we just mourn the loss of a 25 year old kid that put the badge on everyday trying to protect the people of New York. My heart goes out to his family. Rest in peace brother".......
Thank you, TrueBlue. Could not have said it better myself!

joyful joyful
May '15

It's a tragedy anytime a cop is mowed down during duty. Destroys so much. My prayers are with the family. I say focus on the family and solving the crime in the short term, but in the long term we need to try to end the despair of the inner city poor while shrinking the islands of poverty we have let many of our urban areas become. Yes, us, we are all in this together whether we like it or not.

In Baltimore, a large number of the "them" Steven is referring to as having us rebuild their houses for "them," are senior citizens. The center that was burned was under construction to have 60 apartments.

Yes, those that perpetrate violent criminal acts are animals needing a cage but generalizing all of Newark or other urban areas experiencing riots as child popping, welfare lounging, opportunity shirking, miscreants that have spent generations milking our public largess is ridiculous.

We must work to eradicate these islands of poverty and despair by offering more opportunities for folks to lift themselves up. Pouring money in alone won't do it, but neither will generalizing inhabitants as animals and treating them as such. The key is unknown but will require a multifaceted attack on poverty at it's very core and all it's symptoms, gangs, busted families, etc. I think Newark could be a Jersey gem if we work to make it better rather than just to cage the inhabitants.

Newark is a dangerous place. In 2013 at a 7 year crime high, not many worse places in America. Last year, made some improvements by putting more cops on the street, special units targeting gangs, and getting 10% more guns off the street (yes, less guns, less gun crimes). Gangs contribute to about 1/3 the murders in Newark. Somehow I don't see gangs as baby popping welfare cheats.....

Most of Newark's citizens are not criminal baby poppin welfare cheats but instead, just poor Americans trying to get out of Newark to a better life. And they are not dumb. If they do achieve a better life, they leave, and that does not help Newark either. Newark itself is a cage. To live here is to live like an animal hoping for a way to escape the cage, a cage that is very, very difficult to leave given the opportunities available.......in the cage.

Why fix Newark? Because first these are our brethren Americans and many deserve a chance, a helping hand. Second, because Newark is our failure, or it can be our success, a cultural, ethnic, and urban resource we all can benefit from and can benefit us, rather than just a sinkhole for our tax dollars in entitlements.

We talk about urban renewal but bringing a city back takes more than a renewal project and certainly takes more than just saying "buck up, get a job." I read in one report the interesting statement, "first, do no harm" which is a lot of the problem, we renew a neighborhood and at the same time basically displace inhabitants instead of lifting them up.

First Newark has a wealth of natural resources. Proximity to everything is it's core value, airports, NYC, mass transit, etc. There's lots of rehabilitated islands: NJ's School of Medicine, Prudential Headquarters, NJPAC, The Prudential Center, The Newark Art Museum, Riverfront Stadium, and other urban renewal efforts bring both new hope and new despair. Sure, Prudential headquarters has been a godsend to Newark but inhabitants can come and go via protected skywalks direct to mass transit that spirits them in and out without ever hitting the street. The Prudential Centers transforms and destroys entire neighborhoods while offering few long term jobs. NJPAC, the same, although a number of citizens take advantage of low cost access. And the trickle down from these establishment to uplift their surrounding areas is still yet to be seen. Will they help lift Newark out of poverty or turn it into The Meadowlands at Secaucus displacing all the current residents to some other poverty island?

I, for one, am hopeful for Newark yet feel it has a very long way to come. I oft take advantage of the Museum, NJPAC, and the sports/concert venues. The Museum, with safe parking, eclectic displays, robber barren refurbished town home mansion and planetarium is fantastic for young and old. The NJPAC, with safe parking, has everything from classical to rock to discussions to comedy, is a must see for any concert goer. I have yet to sojourn past the facilities speaking to my own fear and loathing of the area even to the famed Ironbound district literally across the street. I hope I will be enticed to soon, but certainly not this year, yet.

We have a start but it takes more than a few big buildings with transient customers and few long term jobs to lift the neighborhoods out of poverty and despair. It takes more than welfare, a sustenance entitlement that maintains but does little to lift anyone up. It takes more than more armed police that can quell the violence but not the poverty.

mistergoogle mistergoogle
May '15

Ever notice in these riots where buildings are set on fire that the welfare office is never touched.
On a side note Florida just enacted a law that those on public assistance have to pass a drug test. Great idea..

Condolences to this young Officers family and friends and prayers for those that go out everyday to protect us and our family's and thankful that they are willing to put it all on the line for our safety..

boobalaa boobalaa
May '15

BBY ,
."THEM" are .the rioter's and 4th and 5th generation welfare assistance recipients, that make all efforts to "pop out more children" to obtain additional monies from us ( the taxpayers ) , with no obligation or requirements of mandatory education or participation in any work program that gives back to the taxpayers that support them.
Marshall law should be declared when people loot and burn...
"1 warning to stop, then shoot ".....enforce existing laws instead of allowing constant challanges and destruction .

Ronald Reagan had the right idea when Governor of California, you want assistance, we will help you"...however, you must participate in educational work program and after a limited period, you will be mandated to find work"....imagine that !

Steven Steven
May '15

Food for thought. I heard a comment the other day that this society we live in is the result of 50 years of the great society and conditions did not change.

Old Gent Old Gent
May '15

God Bless our law enforcement people , their job is thankless and always challanged 1st .

Steven Steven
May '15

Mr G.,
While your "recent " statistics are good reference information for the downtown business area ( which is "always" heavily patrolled by law enforcement , review the statitics from the 67 riots to current .
You will find the following ;
Most businesses that were burned out, never returned or set up in Newark again.
Record amounts of the city's inhabitants have left in droves over the 50+ year period and will never return..
The tax base is virtually non existent due to the huge area's of empty lots where house's and neighborhoods once stood, the city ( with exception of downtown ) has not been "revtialized in 50+ years ...what magic will make it happen now ? .
There needs to be a mandated "performance based" program if your giving monies out for assistance...this is basic logic, even minimally educated people understand this .....Another syytem urgently in need of restructure..

Steven Steven
May '15

ooooo weeeee. I'm a them, a fifth generation wellfarionaire living that high life of taxpayer support. But I needs a new tv so better pop out a few more kids for a large screen. ehhhh ha.

NJ has a 12 month get-to-work time limit on welfare, or you can be sanctioned.

NJ has a total five year lifetime limit on welfare starting at age 18

Children born 10 months after of mother gets welfare are not applicable for NJ welfare.

Welfare to people with less than one year residency limited to previous residence state levels

Legal aliens need not apply.

Felony drug offenders, even having paid the legal price for their transgression, need not apply

Not exactly the five generational high life that Steven imagines.

mistergoogle mistergoogle
May '15

"Every time they destroy a neighborhood, we rebuild it for them, better each and every time. ( Newark has been constantly rebuilt for over 50 + years,..."
Steven

"... the city ([Newark] with exception of downtown ) has not been "revitalized in 50+ years ..."
Steven

Which is it?


These cities have had the same people running them for 50 years. Until there is a change at the top by its "own citizens" their "communities" will stay the same. All the money in the world won't help. The citizens of these communities need to wake up to the fact their elected officials have been lying to them year after year generation after generation. We can only hope for the sake of their children they will stand up for themselves and take a stand against a government who has kept them in chains while holding them hostage for decades.

auntiel auntiel
May '15

Bothered...... "Them" are the ghetto, black thugs. Don't know why it's so hard for people say that.

Philliesman Philliesman
May '15

Mr. G.,

I discussed a 50 year history , I can assure you, the laws you quote have not been in place for that period or time and whatI said was in fact true for quite some time.

Still do not have "mandated" accountability attached to the assistance.
if you or I get a loan...you or I, are required to pay it back or have consequenc'es.

Assistance has become a free ride that needs accountability( to the taxpayer ).
I would be curious to know ( and I have no idea how to find the information ) ...how many families in the bowels of newark ahve benn there and how many generatiions have passed with no educational advancements in the family ...The desire to improve has to be there , do it thru the monies given is the point , otherwise, they have no motivation to make a change. STOP THE HAND OUTS
people come to the United States to find a better life, they work for minimum wages in the hopes of improving their life and their families.....This need s to be implemented into the assistance programs.
jd2, I am speaking of two seperate area's of the city of newark, the downtown area, and the remaining area's .

Steven Steven
May '15

Ah, let the generalizations lead our way. It's important to stress 50 years since that's the Republican milestone to bring it all back to LBJ's Great Society as the root of all evils, the current cause of our own. Or in my view, how the Republicans have not been responsible for anything in over 50 years, neither ideas or clues.

First "these cities" covers a wide ground and the "officials" story is very different in Detroit, Baltimore, and Newark. Somehow I don't think Martin O'Malley fits auntiel's "same people" stereotype.

And if we focused on 50 years in Newark, while most if not all were Democrats, while many, but not all, were black, these men, and they were all men: the mayors of Newark: are not each the same.

mistergoogle mistergoogle
May '15

Let's not play cute. You want it named, let's name it. Yes, there is a portion of the black community that relies on the color of their skin to continue to live down to their reputation. No matter what progress society makes, they refuse to move forward and hark back to "slavery" as an excuse for why they cannot/will not lift themselves up. They perpetuate the cycles of violence and ignorance and are cheered on by the likes of Sharpton, Jackson, Holder and a great part of the media. No, it is not all black people. There are so many who work hard to overcome those stereotypes. I would imagine this must frustrate them no end to see all their hard work torn down by these pieces of garbage. Not animals. Animals don't know any better. This trash does, but chooses to behave this way.

Stand Stand
May '15

Republican, Democrat , Liberal, Conservative, Individual, really makes no difference...THE SYSTEM IS BROKEN , and we as taxpayers continue to fund a sand pit that screams of needing change.


21 county agencies to accomplish the same end result ????
566 office in the state to administer these programs !?????
NOooooooo there is nothing wrong or inefficient with this program...we should just continue to feed it more money , more money , more money.
This abuse has been perpetuating for decades.

This is from "the state web site " seems the work program "only pertains to persons "without "children.



The state's welfare reform program, WorkFirst NJ, emphasizes work as the first step toward building a new life and a brighter future. Our goal is to help people get off welfare, secure employment and become self-sufficient, through job training, education and work activities.

WFNJ provides temporary cash assistance and many other support services to families through the Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF) program. A detailed description of the TANF Program is available in the New Jersey State Plan for Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF) FFY 2012-14 - (pdf)

New Jersey is one of only a few states that also provides cash benefits and support services to individuals and couples with no dependent children, through our General Assistance (GA) program.

Services under WFNJ are limited to five years. After that, clients may be eligible for the Supportive Assistance to Individuals and Families (SAIF) program.

Under the supervision of the NJ Division of Family Development (DFD), the 21 county welfare agencies administer the TANF program. These agencies also administer the WorkFirst NJ General Assistance (GA) program - which provides
--> welfare services for individuals and couples without children <----
in most cases, although about one-third of New Jersey's 566 municipalities maintain their own welfare offices to serve those clients. For more information, contact your County Welfare Agency or local welfare agency.

The state also provides financial assistance and services to people who cannot work, due to a disability or other reason. People who are disabled may qualify for the federal Supplemental Security Income (SSI) program.

How much redundancy would you care to guess is in this system ?

We need full blown accounting and audits of the sate's expenditure's at every level.
We ( the taxpayers ) are being ripped off daily .

Steven Steven
May '15

Or in my view, how the Republicans have not been responsible for anything in over 50 years, neither ideas or clues.
The Republicans did a lot. Took us off the gold standard, started trading with China, started wars in the east that are still going on. Gave us a drug program with no funding,
a no child left behind program that failed, gave us the patriot act removing freedom, This is just a few off the top of my head.

Old Gent Old Gent
May '15

++++100000 Old Gent. Don't forget "let the bull out of the gate"

sallysimpson sallysimpson
May '15

Philliesman - that's what I figured he meant. FYI, I watched the news coverage last week and there were PLENTY OF WHITES rioting and protesting and getting arrested too. Didn't you see that?? Guess we need a new definition of "them" in this situation.

botheredbyuu2 botheredbyuu2
May '15

"PLENTY OF WHITES rioting and protesting and getting arrested too"

those were people in NYC, no riots there. Protesting and getting arrested, yes but not rioting and looting

darwin darwin
May '15

I saw zero whites rioting. I saw plenty marching and protesting. Just as I saw zero whites rioting after the oj verdict.

Philliesman Philliesman
May '15

Steven, yes, I used the same web site, plus others, to indicate that NJ does have "must work" with time limitations to refute your previous inaccurate allegation. You are correct that there are other programs including at the federal level and the system is overly complicated for provider and recipient as well. I figured you could research them for time limitations.

However WFNJ is specifically for families with children via the TANF program, part of WFNJ. Your own copy indicates that. GA is for single adults, is part of WFNJ also. It has the same limitations. Limitations everywhere.

As to 21 county agencies to accomplish the same end result and 566 office in the state to administer these programs one can not determine inefficiency or redundancy via your statement alone. Got more?

Yes, there are welfare issues like needing over $20 an hour to beat welfare or welfare payments to jailbirds. However NJ spends middle of the road for welfare when viewed against our total budget and when you consider how hard we got hit between Bush and Christie, that might be a deal. We spend 22% of our budget on welfare, NY spends 32%, Florida 28%. We're pretty much in the middle of the pack (guess that means were okdoky efficiency-wise).

We are in the top five for total welfare payment available per individual as in maximum dollars one might obtain. Of course, so is our cost of living individual expense. We are number 6 for total welfare budget so pretty high up there as well especially given we are number 11 in population.

So again, the point that multi-generational welfare "opportunists" exists has been a myth since Florio signed the law in 1992. That's right, Florio. And it's been over 23 years. And with Clinton's war on welfare starting in 1993, life on the bread line has not been the same since even at the Federal level. 50 years was auntiel's discussion point. But 23 years is a pretty long time to end your generational scenario.

"Assistance has become a free ride." I dare you to take that ride.

I will take no stand against Stand who I hope stands alone in our Hackettstown. Certainly needs a anonymous website to air those virulent views in public.

Steven, there are issues with welfare for sure. But generalizing it as generational entitlements, baby poppin profit machine, or a sand pit of organizational redundancy or inefficiency is a broad brush ----- the generational portion I have already shown you as being dead wrong and none of which have you shown to be right.

The real issue with welfare is poverty. That's the root cause of the major welfare issue. Perhaps there are scofflaws, gosh bless them for their willingness to steal so little, but there are scofflaws all levels of our society and those at the highest levels steal a lot more. The issue with welfare is poverty and all the things that come with it: broken families, crime, drugs, lack of education, disease, etc. etc. etc. That's the real sandpit we need to work together to overcome.

And who cares the color of poverty. Those who do care know why you think that. People in poverty in our cities are as American as you or I. They are our fellow citizens. If the problem is color-centric, then that problem is poverty, not color Blacks who work to overcome poverty leave the city. Yet they are still black. Black is not the issue, poverty is.

mistergoogle mistergoogle
May '15

It's a shame... This hero cop will get 2 minutes of glory and be forgotten, but the Michael Brown's and others who died because they attacked police officers or resisted arrest will continue to be remembered. There's something seriously wrong with that...

Metsman Metsman
May '15

I am not targeting the black people alone, mr g., poverty as you say, knows no color.
It is another broken "sand pit " that ( we the taxpayers ) continue to pour monies into with no accountability requested, expected , questioned or asked of the people that run these programs.......Very much like the school/ board of education spendings.
So many others could be helped if there was more accountability for these programs.

Steven Steven
May '15

Re: NYC Police Officer shot and Killed

Metsman
I didn't realize resisting arrest was a capital offense with police being judge jury and executioner

oldred
May '15

Re: NYC Police Officer shot and Killed

Ok mg what is the cure for poverty? Come on give it your best shot. You seem to always have the answers for everything. Poverty comes in all colors. I don't care if Republicans were running the show in Baltimore for the past 50 yrs., or any other group for that matter. My point is if it isn't working and has never worked change it. The only people that can change it are the citizens of that community, not you, not me. As citizens we have our own community to take care of. The citizens of Baltimore have no one to blame but themselves. Stand up, take action, throw the dead weight out. Elect people who care about the community, it's citizens well being and future generations. It can be done, if you want it bad enough and commit to it. Here's a picture of a fine example. You know how I love to send these :)

auntiel auntiel
May '15

And I suppose no "whites" riot after sporting events?

(balance struck for politically correct reasons)

justintime justintime
May '15

Re: NYC Police Officer shot and Killed

Maybe if things like this didn't happen people wouldn't get so upset and think that the police are out to get them

oldred
May '15

Oldred if you get killed while resisting arrest like the guy in Brooklyn, it's your own fault. All he had to do was let them cuff him. Instead he died because he was a gigantic man and they had to use certain means to take him down. Why are you putting it all on the police?

Metsman Metsman
May '15

oldred, the wacko in Colorado lived because he didn't shoot at them or resist.

Metsman Metsman
May '15

auntiel,
agreed !
The system is broken !

Steven Steven
May '15

Wow, that was some stretch, Oldred! You're gonna need some kind of ointment to help with that. auntieL, you made a very sensible and valid statement. Thank you.

Stand Stand
May '15

Resisting arrest is grounds for summary execution Metsman, execution by an employee of government who's job is to enforce laws, not impose punishment?

justintime justintime
May '15

Steven.... Right on about President Reagan. He is my favorite and the best in my lifetime.

Here is the problem. On Tuesday, May 4 I got into my car and put on Fox News at about 306pm. There was breaking news in Baltimore. They thought a young black male was shot by police. Two Fox News employees said they heard on shot fired and a man was on the ground. A so-called eyewitness said she saw a Baltimore police officer chase a young black male and shot him dead. As it turned out the young black male had a gun and ran from police and he tossed the gun and it went off. The police took him in.

Now to the police officer in NYC. I pray for the family. However, who is going to riot? Who is going to burn a drug store to the ground in NYC in protest of this young lad? Whose early teen children are going to throw bottles and rocks and who are they throwing them at? Do we gather the residents of this neighborhood and ask them to come outside so the police can throw rocks and bottles at them? Do we ask the towns folk to put up a line of support to stop the police? Does the mayor ask the towns folk to stand down and let the police have their day so the police can burn down people's businesses? Do we send a police officer from Baltimore to NYC to kill two towns folks just like the dude who came from Baltimore to kill two NYC police officers? Do we?

Everyday in Chicago we have murders. Where is the president and the media? Its black on black. That is why we do not hear from the media and the president. But if a white police officer kills a black man, watch out and batten down the hatches.

Its all about "Change you can believe in" Remember that? Change you can believe in.

Singlemaleinnj Singlemaleinnj
May '15

Auntiel: You raise some good points. What I had said earlier was: "We must work to eradicate these islands of poverty and despair by offering more opportunities for folks to lift themselves up. Pouring money in alone won't do it, but neither will generalizing inhabitants as animals and treating them as such. The key is unknown but will require a multifaceted attack on poverty at it's very core and all it's symptoms, gangs, busted families, etc. I think Newark could be a Jersey gem if we work to make it better rather than just to cage the inhabitants."

So I don't have the answer, nor does anyone else. I agree it isn't working but disagree that there has not been change, it's just that we have not fixed it and in places like Detroit have suffered grave setbacks. Nor do I agree that it's only up to the citizens. We are citizens too and all of us benefit from our cities and I, for one, want to be able to use the resources that a Newark, Baltimore, or Detroit might provide. New York City is a nice example of how cities can get better; there are others too.

The picture you show is an example of the problem. Does that gent, who I gathered lifted himself up, live in Newark? Or the suburbs.

I think Detroit is a great example of what you are saying. Detroit, the area, is still pretty grand. Detroit, the city, is a wasteland. Corporate flight, middle class flight, everyone who could, left. And what remained was not educated, savvy enough to vote for anyone good and they elected thieves and idiots who stripped the city further. Now what? Leave the wasteland? Let em figure it out themselves? Hire Mad Max to protect the outskirts, build a wall, and call it a day? Or lend a hand so these folks can lift themselves and this gem of a city out of the muck?

While I don't have the answer, I know these folks need a helping hand to help themselves. Welfare alone is not the answer, welfare without work is not an answer but a problem. Just putting in some insulated cultural islands like NJPAC, Riverfront stadium alone will not solve the problems. And if won't be quick. We have a number of generations of uneducated, less than minimum wage, folks to bring foreword --- it will take time and, like a said, a multifaceted approach to make strides.

Perhaps if we invested in our cities just sizeable portion of what invested in rebuilding Iraq and Afghanistan we might see more success. Perhaps it's time we invested in our third world at home the way we invest in the rest of the third world.

But no, I do not have the answer, I can not specify the program. I can say leaving them alone to figure it out won't work. Neither will generalizing it as a black problem or a welfare-cheat problem, or a baby-poppin populace problem solve anything. Which I don't think you did in your last submission.

mistergoogle mistergoogle
May '15

justintime, do you really think they were trying to kill that big guy?! He had health problems obviously. Are they supposed to be psychic and realize a take down might kill him?!

Metsman Metsman
May '15

Excellent post, misterg. No, I don't have the answers either, but a little more understanding would be a good start. These problems are a really really long time in the making.


Justin is completely delusional.

Philliesman Philliesman
May '15

As usual, amidst the incoherent racist rantings, Mr G weighs in with a thoughtful and measured post. Thank you, Mr. G!

yankeefan yankeefan
May '15

Metsman I was referring to this, a statement implying that resisting arrest is a valid reason for lethal force:
"oldred, the wacko in Colorado lived because he didn't shoot at them or resist."

Philliesman, care to elaborate with specific comments? Or do you just hate everything I write?

Justintime Justintime
May '15

I never said resisting arrest is a valid reason to kill. Don't put words into my mouth.

Metsman Metsman
May '15

It was a question metsman.

Justintime Justintime
May '15

Thank you mg. Your response was what I was hoping for. You are correct the problem has been going on for years and years. Why? Don't you think most people ask the same question. The system is broken, it's the same system that was put in place years and years ago. If something hasn't worked for more than 20 years than it's time to sit down and change it. Don't throw more money at it hoping it will fix itself. Throw the system you have out the window. Sit down and figure it out again. Make the changes an stick to it with an added timeline. After another 20 years if it still isn't working, throw that one in the river. Start over again. I have faith in the human race, and I am sure over time with a little effort from our elected officials someone will eventually get it right. I think the people of Baltimore should demand change from their elected officials first, and then and only then if they want your help or mine we're here for the asking. I am not going to stick my noise in anybody's business until asked. The gent you are speaking of, I suggest you read his "personal" biography you'd be surprised.

auntiel auntiel
May '15

Stop Police Hands up I wounder how many times this must be said be for harder mesures are taken to Stop some one 1, 3 , 5. 10 times and how many times is someone told stop resisting arrest befor they get dealt with the use of force

Caged Animal Caged Animal
May '15

There's force and then there is unreasonable force.

http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2015/03/civil_rights_charges_filed_aga.html

http://gawker.com/video-of-cop-shooting-black-man-in-back-leads-to-murder-1696334898

Of course, there's also this little tidbit in the Constitution that has a problem with illegal search and seizure.

emaxxman emaxxman
May '15

Justin......i dont hate everything you write, i disagree with everything you write.

Philliesman Philliesman
May '15

Justintime, if that resistance leads to violence and the perpetrator dies accidentally or because cop had no other choice, then it's unfortunate. If a cop starts beating someone to death over it or shoots them without receiving harm to themselves then that's absolutely wrong on the cops part. But what I saw in video of the Brooklyn man doesn't lead me to believe a wrong was committed by the cops. The cop in Ferguson also had visible marks and the kid reached for his gun, so I don't think he was wrong either. The cop who shot the guy in the back in South Carolina was absolutely wrong. So I see the difference between what is excessive force and what is necessary. Shooting someone who is fleeing is unacceptable.

Metsman Metsman
May '15

If the "person" had a name, I would be glad to read it.

First off, auntiel, we haven't thrown more money at it in years except to cover the swelling masses due to The Great Recession. From usgovernmentspending.com at the combined state/local/federal level: "The Great Society programs started welfare on an upward path, so that after 1980 welfare spending fluctuated between 3 and 4 percent of GDP, spiking during recessions. In 1996 President Clinton signed a reform of welfare, and welfare costs declined from 3.4 percent of GDP during the 1990-91 recession to a low of 2.4 percent of GDP in 2000. In the 2001-02 recession welfare costs increased to 3.1 percent of GDP in 2003 and then declined to 2.5 percent of GDP by 2007. But the Great Recession of 2009-10 produced an explosion in welfare costs to a peak of 4.75 percent of GDP in 2010. Welfare costs are expected to decline to 2.66 percent of GDP by 2015 and down to 2.4 percent of GDP by 2020."

OK, the Great Society failed. Clinton clamped down on excesses and increased accountability. Yeah, Clinton. Recessions have put extra people on the rolls but expected to fall again. It's not like we're throwing money at it; that was Iraq and Afghanistan rebuilding efforts.

And if you look at the system pre-Clinton, Clinton, and post Clinton, there have been changes, it has not been the same.

We agree there needs to be change. I am just not sure it's a do-over versus an amended and expanded effort. We've learned accountability is important, and we've learned that, given a chance, many people take it. We just need more chances, more opportunities.

"I have faith in the human race." Sure, why not. But often we hear people say, "why can't "they" just get ahead. It's been 150 years since emancipation, why can't "they" get beyond it." I am sure you heard me state my belief that it's not a black problem, but a poverty problem. But let me be clear: we do have black problems in America. Blacks, IMO, do have a higher hurdle to clear to escape poverty due to both slavery and prejudice ---- neither are done and forgotten yet. So if the root cause is poverty, and most of those in poverty are black, then we need to continue to get at the root cause of our black problem in America as we continue to tackle poverty. That is, what whites did to black society vis-à-vis slavery and what we continue to do to black through prejudice. I think as we continue to lend a helping hand versus a hand out, we need to be sensitive to those problems and embrace programs that help build strong black families and remove prejudice from the white culture where many still fall prey to it. Certainly the current welfare system does nothing to help in this regard.

mistergoogle mistergoogle
May '15

why are we allowing more and more foreign workers into the country?

shouldn't we give preference to out of work Americans and their disadvantaged youth?

shouldn't we build them up for a better, stronger society?

BrotherDog BrotherDog
May '15

BD - your second question is a very poignant one. I think we can say that there are many programs to help our youth. My company sponsors a summer internship for disadvantaged youths from various cities in NJ. The one requirement is that these kids must demonstrate a willingness to aspire to better than what they are now.

I can say, after working several summers with these kids, you quickly learn that there are so many people from poor neighborhoods, eg Paterson, Newark, Camden, who have big dreams and are willing to work hard for it. They simply just need the opportunity.

The challenge is providing enough opportunities and good role models for these kids. Sadly, there are too many "easy" ways out as well.

emaxxman emaxxman
May '15

"why are we allowing more and more foreign workers into the country?"

who we?

how many and where?

are u talkin legal, illegal, or both?

mistergoogle mistergoogle
May '15

Metsman, I was asking a question is all. I think many people see the police as something more than human beings doing a job and they feel that it is wrong to ever, ever question anything they do. I'm not one of them, so I ask questions. BTW, I wasn't speaking to any of the cases you mentioned but just commenting on one of your posts (I referred to it in a previous reply).

Regarding the cases you mentioned, the only one we disagree on is the Brooklyn case where, IMO, force was continued to be used long after it was needed. Thanks for clarifying your position.

Philliesman, I only have a handful of posts in this thread, and only one as a reply to you. Was my reply in any way not factual? If it was, why would you not agree with it?

justintime justintime
May '15

Gee, "mistergoogle", that's so cool that you saved your 5th grade Martin Luther King Day essay and copied and pasted it here. It's ridiculous, and naïve, but nice that you hung on to it. I wonder what you have ever done to help facilitate change for these communities?

I have to question the assertion of so many blacks being uneducated. How many more opportunities must there be open to them that the taxpayers fund? How many programs have continually been run off of our tax dollars. As I said in my first post - there are absolutely those in that community who wish to and DO better themselves. But so many use their race as an excuse.

Why is there some type of justification for this? How come other ethnicities raised themselves out of abject poverty without the continuing cycles of violence? Yes, every group has/had it's bad apples but when we see it time and again there is more than just an anomaly.

I also would love to be able to use the cities. I have lived in cities and chose to leave because they are not/were not safe. I wish they were too, but despite the efforts of generations some people want to destroy all the good that can and has been done. I did paid and voluntary work when I was younger with various inner city charities. I wonder if those who are on here crying crocodile tears can say the same?

Stand Stand
May '15

Stand, appreciate the comment making me feel young although we all could do without the derogatory name calling. Do you really want my resume for helping others? You go first.

As to the rest, if you want to substantiate anything, I welcome the discussion.

But to post a series of interrogative inquiries without support facts as if you're making a point while expecting others to refute spurious allegations is ludicrous. When you want to get serious, I'm your huckleberry.

mistergoogle mistergoogle
May '15

I think Stand has a point. There are some in the black community that use their race as an excuse not to get ahead. They are offered the same things the rest of us have. They can get an education and better themselves. They have the choice not to be a part of gang elements in cities. They have the choice of staying away from drugs. We don't live in a caste system. I think some of them like to make it think that they are. The simple solution... stay in school and work hard for what you want. Have the common sense to stay away from bad influences. There's plenty of examples of people from rough areas that become successful. They had the drive to do it.

Metsman Metsman
May '15

The population in the jails speaks volumes as to "whom" is doing nothing or very little to help themselves, when the opportunity presents itself.
( again, WE the taxpayer's continue to support this sandpit ) Inmates are offered and have available to them , educational opportunities while being incarcerated ( at no cost to them ) ....many choose to not take advantage of it ...so how do you "force feed " someone an education ?.
There a some that actually apply themselves and come out rehabiliated and with actual law degrees ( although they are far and few ), however, they are there, showing that it is possible.
If someone is incarcerated, mandate that they take summary tests in an effort to assist them...get value out of our monies and invest further in these persons, the cost will not be more if structured properly . The rewards will be priceless.

Steven Steven
May '15

The population in the jails speaks volumes as to the War on Drugs and the outsourcing of the problems associated with it to the inner cities. The tax dollars we dump year after year into the cities are the cost of not having to deal with it ourselves. The cost to the people who live there is far greater.

Until someone makes the decision to legalize drugs across the board or start executing all illegal drug users, the criminal element and the gangs will continue to own the cities and success stories of people lifting themselves up and out of poverty from that situation will remain few and far between.

ianimal ianimal
May '15

This is the guy they're destroying Baltimore over

​​ http://clashdaily.com/2015/04/freddy-grays-arrest-record-heres-the-rap-sheet-of-the-dude-theyre-destroying-baltimore-over/#

Freddy Gray had a pre-existing spinal and neck injury and had severe damage and scar tissue from an accident that Allstate Insurance was paying him a large structured settlement. Freddy had several unsuccessful spinal fusion surgeries, he most recent spinal/cervical operation was a week and a half before he was arrested. Freddy should have been at home in bed resting and recovering from recent major operation instead of manufacturing and distributing drugs on the streets and resisting arrest. Freddy has a criminal record pages long for manufacturing and distributing controlled dangerous drugs that were cocaine crack heroine etc. along with many assault charges, gun charges, breaking and entering and the list goes on since he was 18 years old. (Juvenile records are sealed.) Look at some of this on www.mdjudiciarycasesearch. You will also see where he was trying to cash in his monthly structured settlement for his spinal injury payments to one lump sum through Peachtree Funding​.​ He could have easily fallen in the paddy wagon from the slippery bench to the floor or twisted his fused spine to turning his neck the wrong way during struggle . Also, the police that arrested him were also black, not white. Freddy was a dangerous career felon with a damaged spine and neck that was supposed to be healing a week and a half after surgery, not running the streets committing felonies and resisting arrest.

skippy skippy
May '15

You know Steven, you have an idea there. Why not offer early release for graduation with good grades? That's a concept. Maybe they won't use what they learned, but most people do one way or another.

Wow, there's a concept.

Iman, the point I keep adding to things like you're saying is, on top of that, if you do work to beat the odds, are lucky, and get ahead, the first thing you do is leave. So what is left from your success is a deeper hole than when you were there. And if establish programs that are highly successful in helping people get ahead, you are also helping to get those motivated people away from the city so what do you have left? A scene from Escape From New York.

Finding ways to not only get more people to lift themselves up from poverty while simultaneously making cities better places for those not in poverty to want to be is one heck of a problem to solve.

mistergoogle mistergoogle
May '15

Key&Peele for all of you that claim to understand the black experience in America...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Rg58d8opQKA

yankeefan yankeefan
May '15

Yep, and the news media did it again....prompted mass destruction thru inadequate, incorrect , shoot from the hip, knee jerk reporting, they should be sued by every police force, municipality, business,and individual impacted by the hysteria and damage created .

Steven Steven
May '15

Good post Skippy. So basically if all that is true, the charges will get thrown out. Then people will go ballistic and burn Baltimore to the ground.

Metsman Metsman
May '15

You didn't write that Skippy. It's a cut and paste job you either stole from Facebook or copied from a chain email your crazy uncle sent you. You didn't write it, you don't know who wrote it, and the claims are unsubstantiated. Why post that trash on here?

Also, if you had done 90 seconds worth of research you would have seen that snopes has discredited this anonymous chain email.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/freddiegraysuit.asp

Gadfly Gadfly
May '15

In addition to what ianimal wrote, the money-motivated folks in the incarceration "industry" shouldn't be dismissed:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/04/28/how-for-profit-prisons-have-become-the-biggest-lobby-no-one-is-talking-about/

Justintime Justintime
May '15

mistergoogle - let's just say, you took the first shot , singling me out speaking about "anonymity". Again, I laugh at you - "mistergoogle". Now, if that is your legal name, please accept my heartfelt apologies. Your response this time is so full of deflection with big words it is unreadable, as are most of your longwinded posts.

I know you are no 5th grader but your response to this situation (blacks, Freddy Gray, poverty) is so immature and naïve (at best) that is how I perceive you - a child envisioning a "Utopia". Well, I am a realist who has lived in the real world. I know that there are good and bad people on all sides and from all backgrounds. I know there is no easy solution. But I refuse to accept excuses which ring hollow time after time.

Stand Stand
May '15

Stand I just skip over his posts. I can't read them either. LOL

Metsman Metsman
May '15

Mr G wrote " You know Steven, you have an idea there. Why not offer early release for graduation with good grades? That's a concept. Maybe they won't use what they learned, but most people do one way or another."

Yes, that concept does indeed exist , they call it "being promoted" or "advancing"
These type of person's have actually been known to mentor or tutor others.....
Now there's a concept !

Steven Steven
May '15

So Skippy reads ClashDaily, part of the Liberty Alliance network of lies run by the Vallorani bro's, media czars thanks to the idiots giving them money.

To get you an idea where Brandon, the major Vollorani mouthpiece, is coming from: On Planet of the Apes: “The most disturbing attributes of the movie were its anti-Christian overtones and references to evolution as scientific fact,” Yup, that's what I came away with. "Damn them, damn them all to hell." He reviews most entertainment except his own websphere Victoria Jackson "Politichicks" talkie about the same. The man hats evolution and based on how he's evolved, it might makes sense in his case.

He argues for adoption and implementation of Mosaic Case Laws. I'll let you google that for the whole gory story, but trust me, if Brandon gets his way, we all gonna get on the boat. Or face the punishment of death for:

insulting your parent, (we'll have no parent smiting going on here)
adultery
un-chastity (don't ask how they test, but suffice it to say sports are out)
man-stealing (even if not adulterous....)
Sabbath breaking (better be on time, you do not want to miss roll call)
Unkempt hair (bald is in)
Tearing your Clothes (goodbye Goths)
Incest (however doing your sister is only excommunication, brother's wife and you're cursed, but auntie ---- you're criticized harshly but(not critiqued

OK, there's hundreds more Mosaic crimes, but you get the drift. And this guy not only believes it, he's trying to rally others to the cause and make it happen.

By the by, the punishment is usually stoning, fun for the whole neighborhood. Burning, hanging, sword and strangling also have notable mention.

And this is where Skippy got his breaking news.

mistergoogle mistergoogle
May '15

I didn't write it

skippy skippy
May '15

http://thefourthestate.co/2015/04/breaking-freddy-gray-had-spine-surgery-just-one-week-before-arrest/

this is where I got it

skippy skippy
May '15

and here's another source - possibly more accurate?? http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/04/30/those-stories-that-freddie-gray-had-a-pre-existing-spinal-injury-are-totally-bogus/

5catmom 5catmom
May '15

MG - I told you where I got it - relax

skippy skippy
May '15

Why must we always cast judgement and stereotype an entire group of people (that goes for the police and African Americans)?

Are we that ignornant..that we can't surmise and fully see what's going on without being influenced by the biased media?

bbu since you know my mom I think you'd appreciate this. Even though she's in her 70's conflicted with COPD, she has been out everyday In this humid weather standing on the street corners in Nutley holding a large sign. Saying, "HONK IF YOU SUPPORT THE POLICE. THEY SUPPORT US AND WE SHOULD SUPPORT THEM".

I respect that she is taking a stand on what she believes in and can careless what other's think.

Yup that's my mom. Lol!

positive positive
May '15

Meant to say inflicted not conflicted.

positive positive
May '15

I believe that you meant to say, "afflicted".

Gadfly Gadfly
May '15

maybe this is part of the problem facing the downtrodden inner cities:

As more rent, the wealth gap widens

For the majority of American homeowners, their house is their single largest asset. Despite the crash in home values in the last decade, that still holds true.

That crash, however, created a much larger share of renters, and these Americans are not enjoying the new wealth that now-rising home prices afford. Ninety percent of metropolitan housing markets have seen a decline in their homeownership rates, while home values are rising and incomes are flat, and that is widening the wealth gap, according to a new study by the National Association of Realtors, which looked at homeownership, home values and income growth from 2000 to 2013.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/102658770

BrotherDog BrotherDog
May '15

positive; good stuff about your mother, thanks for sharing it, i urge all of us to become active about what we are passionate about. cpod is no picnic and the fact that she battled that while exercising her god given rights to self expression is remarkable. i love stories like this. thanks for posting it

skippy; dont worry about it, you're ok, we all need to let the real facts of this case be discovered, the cops, the suspects health, what happened where and when, and what decisions were made or not made for what reasons. there is more to this case than meets the eye. i am waiting for the reports to be made public before coming down on one side or the other.

BrotherDog BrotherDog
May '15

positive - yes, I do know your mom and yes, that is definitely her. Going to stand up for what she believes in and not give a "HOOT" about what others think. She is a strong woman! Wishing her the best. Would love to see her again. Been so long. : )

botheredbyuu2 botheredbyuu2
May '15

I am very relaxed Skippy, I just get amused with the "news" we'll accept, hook, line, and sinker without vetting the site or author. This guy is a loon. He believes in stoning non-virgins. Every time we, myself included, click on these sites, we put money in these loon's mouths, albeit less than a penny, so they are profiting from their lies. At the same time, many lambast the "biased" media while accepting outright fabrications.

So which is worse Skippy, the loon or those who listen to loons?

Or perhaps those who like to limelight loons laughingly in a non-relaxed manner :>)

Meanwhile it does look like the prosecutor may have been both hasty and overzealous in the indictments perhaps to stem the social unrest. If true that she jumped before the facts were established, there will be good chance of backlash. I initially thought the mass indictments were meant to incent some of the indicted to turn states-evidence on a plea to rat out the offenders. Time will tell but the longer it takes to get to trial, the more it looks like a case of shoot, ready, aim.

mistergoogle mistergoogle
May '15

Please don't get too relaxed there misterg - Things have been very pleasant for a while and "reversion to the mean" would be disappointing to say the least.

skippy, I think the general idea is to multiple-source. Don't sweat it, outright misinformation is usually easy to correct.

justintime justintime
May '15

Perhaps your sensitivity meter has broken :>)

mistergoogle mistergoogle
May '15

Lol got it - you're right I should learn from you in how to research things better - thanks

skippy skippy
May '15

I've posted a few whoppers as well so I might suggest the JITster; he probably has one of the highest "NOT BUSTED" ratings for HL! I may not agree with many of his opinions, but his research is very good.

mistergoogle mistergoogle
May '15

I found this on Facebook.



Today I was a Police Officer

Today, I will not answer the radio call that your boyfriend has come home drunk and is beating you again.

Today I will not answer the radio call that your 16 year old daughter, who is very responsible, is four hours late coming home from school.


Today I will not answer the radio call that your store has been robbed or your house has been burglarized.

Today I will not stop a drunk driver from killing someone.

Today I will not catch a rapist or a murderer or a car thief.

Today I will not answer the radio call that a man has a gun or tried to abduct a child or that someone has been stabbed or has been in a terrible accident.

Today I will not save your child that you locked in a car or the child you were to busy to watch who went outside and fell into the swimming pool, but that I revived.

No, today I will not do that.

Why?

Because Today I was killed by a drunk driver while I was helping push a disabled car off the highway.

Today I was shot and killed during a routine traffic stop to simply tell someone that they had a taillight out.

Today I was killed in a traffic accident rushing to help a citizen.

Today I was shot and killed serving a warrant on a known drug dealer.

Today I was killed by a man when I came by to do a welfare check because his family was to busy.

Today I was killed trying to stop a bank robbery or a grocery store robbery.

Today I was killed doing my job.

A chaplain and an officer will go to a house and tell a mom and dad or a wife or husband or a child that their son or daughter or husband or wife or father or mother won’t be coming home today.

The flags at many police stations were flown at half-mast today but most people won’t know why.

There will be a funeral and my fellow officers will come, a twenty-one-gun salute will be given, and taps will be played as I am laid to rest.

My name will be put on a plaque, on a wall, in a building, in a city somewhere.

A folded flag will be placed on a mantel or a bookcase in a home somewhere and a family will mourn.

There will be no cries for justice.

There will be no riots in the streets.

There will be no officers marching, screaming “no justice, no peace.”

No citizens will scream that something must be done.

No windows will be smashed, no cars burned, no stones thrown, no names called.

Only someone crying themselves to sleep tonight will be the only sign that I was cared about.

I was a police officer.

Metsman Metsman
May '15

There will be no cries of "no justice" because no stone will be left unturned to get the perpetrator(s).

The funeral will get more attention from politicians and the media than just about anybody's else's funeral. The widowed spouse and children will be supported to the max.

As it should be.


You are right Gadfly. Pretty embarrassing..on my end. Lol.

positive positive
May '15

Heartbreaking that 2 more police officers have been murdered in the line of duty. http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/10/us/mississippi-police-officers-shot-dead/


One of them was awarded cop of the year and the other was just a rookie. I bet all the looters in Baltimore are having a party now after hearing this. Scumbags...

Metsman Metsman
May '15

Stand and others often point out that many Blacks rely on skin color to refuse to move forward using slavery as their excuse. Indulge me a minute while I tell a story, a true story.

One side of my family came to the US from Ireland in 1867. They were considered poor. The cost of each ticket for worse-than-cattle-car steerage was about the price to get to California today. They had sold what they had and had $5,000 in today’s dollars. They were Catholic, married, with one very young daughter, coming from a strong religious community looking for a better life. They were met by an older brother who had been here a few years and headed to Philadelphia. Along the way they saw many signs saying “Job Available, Irish Need Not Apply, but the brother had assured Dad a job. They spoke and read English. Dad worked in the steel mills. They lived in an area known as Whisky Row surrounded by a community of Irish with mostly the same goals. This was brutal dangerous work and slum living. But it was better than before. None of the kids worked, Mom and Dad made sure they went to school. For the next 50 years, the Irish took over the Rail Road. The kids and their kids moved up to work as station masters, baggage clerks, and engineers before fighting in WWII, getting lucky and getting a college degree on the GI bill.

It was a long journey to get out of the steel mills but only a generation. There was a strong community, heritage and culture, an existing family structure, a strong church community, family job referrals, some money, and much support and desire. And I will tell you, for each set-back or traumatic episode in the journey, the effect could be felt for generations. My father was the greatest generation and I can assure you that the effect of war passed not only to my generation but to my kids as well and perhaps beyond. Some parts of history are in our DNA.

We went from 1867 to 1935 before owning a house. And from 1867 to 1945 before our first family member graduated from college; that’s 80 years.

mistergoogle mistergoogle
May '15

Contrast that to 1865 when Mr. Black became free. He had zero dollars, no possessions, no family, little positive culture, and no formal religion. He could not read or write and his English was very poor. For the past 200 years, Mr. Black’s forbearers had been slaves, property owned by another and forced to do their bidding. Women were preyed upon, used as baby production units, while the men could do nothing. Children were a livestock operation including parent pre-selection by the master, and often sold before growing up, families were broken apart purely for economic gain. Babies were had for economic gain by the master. Beatings, rape, and other brutality went unpunished, it was “morally” OK.

So, how long does it take to repair this damage to one’s self, family, community, religion and all the other things stripped away that we who pulled ourselves up from our bootstraps take for granted?

“James Johnson, a 79 year old ex-slave from Columbia, South Carolina, stated in his narrative that he “[felt] and [knew] dat de years after de war was worser than befo’”.”

So, first Mr. Black scrapped up some money and first placed a few ads looking for family. When he found none, he started walking north. Jobs were few, his only skill was manual labor. And his pay for that was far less than what a white man would earn. Food was scant, medicine unaffordable and your death rate was twice that of whites. The isolation of being alone would have been intolerable for most of us.

http://historyengine.richmond.edu/episodes/view/5032

“During the depression, an elderly African American man was asked by a WPA historian if slavery should still matter in the United States. Cornelius Holmes, who labored most of his life on rice plantations in South Carolina, said, “Though the slavery question is settled, the race issue will be with us always. It is in our politics, in our courts, on our highways, in our manners, in our religion, and in our thoughts, all the day, every day.”

Then, the night riders, KKK, Jim Crow and many other formidable real obstacles were placed in Mr. Black's way that none of the white community ever had to face.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/emancipation-evoked-mix-of-emotions-for-freed-slaves/2012/09/07/57ad5184-f15a-11e1-892d-bc92fee603a7_story.html

First, I amazed myself about how little I know about life during reconstruction or this portion of Black history. I myself will be doing some research to better educate myself. But as hard as getting here and getting ahead was for my family, it pales in comparison to the Black experience in America. Freedom - 1865, NAACP - 1909, Jackie Robinson - 1947, 1955 - Bus boycott, 1964 Civil Rights act, 1965 - Voting Rights Act. These are not dates long, long, ago. I do not know the answer of how long it takes for us to say, all things are equal in regards to color, but we are not there yet. One of the effects is poverty, so while throwing money at it is not the answer, certainly programs to lend a helping hand to help lift our fellow citizens out of despair and return our cities to useful communities is not a bad thing IMHO.

The fact that we will never finish does not mean we should give up.

mistergoogle mistergoogle
May '15

At what point do we say it is enough , how many times must a police officer say stop hands up I am sure by now most people have watch the show COPs and see that people resist aresst most of the time what are the police to do whats the answer is government truly on the side of law breakers

Caged Animal Caged Animal
May '15

Let me tell you of my situation. Many years ago I divorced my husband. I was working but needed a LITTLE assistance for about 4 months for rent. I made 25.00 to much for help. Guess what I was told. QUIT MY JOB. Than I could get Food stamps, Rent assistance. Heat assistance(I told them my heat was included in my rent. was told they didn't care) and Welfare. I told them to drop dead and got a third job and raised a child. I found a job fore a lady with 3 children and she refused to take it. She remained on the system till her 3 kids turned 18. about 15years . Also I know of a lady on the system that lived with her father, x husband (they got back together) 3 children, 6 horses, new truck and trailer. Guess what happened. Some one turned them to welfare fraud. Do not misunderstand me, I will help anyone but you have to help yourself and not beg for more. SHOULD be limits on how long you can be on the system. As for the 25 year old officer my heart goes out to the family and fellow officers. They are in my prayers. May god hold all of them and the police family in the palm of his hands.

Snowflake Snowflake
May '15

Yeah, like the video I watched yesterday in which the officer told the suspect to get on the ground. While the suspect was getting down,but still on all his hands and knees, the officer kicked him square in the face. It looked like he was kicking off a football. The suspect's jaw was broken and he was knocked out. Clear case of resisting, right? If it didn't happen to be caught on tape, no one would ever know what actually happened.

Gadfly Gadfly
May '15

Post a link to the video Gadfly.

Metsman Metsman
May '15

Metsman, you can easily google it.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/08/us/delaware-police-kick-video/


The police are no different than the sports players, the news media , the teachers, the politicians, the people we all work with...THERE ARE BAD AMONGST THE GOOD , but there are surely more good than there are bad.

If we are going to hold the police accountable ( as we should ) , then we also need to hold the others to the very same standards...THIS is the real problem... being selective in when and whom we hold accountable.
If it doesn't impact someone directly, they don't want to get involved.

Steven Steven
May '15

Too bad the media as well as people blow these "bad" apples out of proportion yet hardly ever show stories about the "good" apples...makes people believe the majority is bad.

Darrin Darrin
May '15

The media is evil. It's all about ratings.

Metsman Metsman
May '15

In the media I do see the good as well as the bad.

But in the unfortunate neighborhoods in the news lately, people's PERCEPTION, based on THEIR OWN EXPERIENCES, not on the media, is that for them, the police are more bad then good. This is food for thought.

And for the police, these areas are tough to work, and that must have a bad impact on the way many operate there. We can't expect them to be robots rather than the imperfect humans we all are.


The media is owned by large corporations. The large corporations own the politicians. The politicians own the large corporations. The politicians are cashing in big time with privately owned prisons ( 90%) for drugs and alcohol...a drug, also). They are also in on the big rehab places. I watch "cops " on t.v. They say "that car just pulled away from a known crack house that is dealing so we're going to pull them over ". DUH! Why not just bust the source instead of the consumer? Prisons, money and politicians. I love when they spend $50k to set up a sting to bust prostitutes or johns, when there is REAL crime to contend with. Another good one... the cops pretend to sell drugs and bust the buyer, what, they don't know where the real dealers are? Since entrapment is now legal, cops can "legally" sell drugs? The whole vice thing is such a waste of time and money, except crimes against children. And why is alcohol(used in a legal way, like a family picnic)legal, anyway? It's addictive, causes seizures, violence, car wrecks, crime, liver problems..I could go on.

sallysimpson sallysimpson
May '15

I honestly never understood busting the consumer either, be it prostitutes or drugs. isn't offering it worse then buying it?

And entrapment is a topic worthy of a discussion on its' own, I 100% disagree with that method.

Same as I have heard of cops getting in a unmarked car and doing 90 down the highway. They do it right past hiding officers, which then pulls over all the cars that were "keeping up" with the unmarked officer.

You bust the consumer and you got 1 person off the street

You bust the dealer and you get a whole bunch off the street (temporarily)

The question shouldn't be why is alcohol legal, it should be why is the other stuff illegal? I feel if people want to do harm to their body (much like the seat belt law) that is their choice, it is their body, who is anyone to tell them they cannot? (given they are not harming anyone else in the process (like driving while under the influence))

Hell, we can run completely off topic and ask why suicide is a punishable offence?

Darrin Darrin
May '15

sally it's called revenue for the government. Cigarettes cause problems to and are legal to purchase. Those things will always be around as long as the Government can profit from them by collecting the big tax $$. The Government needs people to drink, smoke, and do all those dirty little habits.

auntiel auntiel
May '15

http://nypost.com/2015/05/10/subway-faces-backlash-after-worker-cheers-deaths-of-2-cops/

What a model citizen... Just goes to show how sick some in the black community are...

Metsman Metsman
May '15

Really, Metsman? Are you sure it isn't another case of the "evil media blowing "bad apples" out of proportion to get ratings"? Or, is that only the case when they report bad things about people you relate to? When they print bad things about people you DON'T relate to, it just reinforces your already bad opinion of them?

ianimal ianimal
May '15

Snowflake: "SHOULD be limits on how long you can be on the system." There are and they have been there for awhile. Glad you worked it out, that person should be fired for incompetence.

Auntiel's "Those things will always be around as long as the Government can profit from them by collecting the big tax $$. The Government needs people to drink, smoke, and do all those dirty little habits" seems circular maybe even approaching tinfoil hat thinking. What, do you suggest we end sin tax? And people would stop smoking if it costs less? Or maybe you just want the government to tell you what to do and make what you consider wrong illegal? Neither sound like the views you usually suggest except for your feeling that whatever the government does must be wrong.

Iman, you completely missed it. It's a black thing. And in case you missed the thinking, when blacks fail to get ahead, it's a lack of a black community. When they do evil, it's a black community thing.

Based on the past few posts, I would say in Hackettstown, it's a heat thing.

mistergoogle mistergoogle
May '15

Ianimal did you read her Twitter posts? Give me a break. Then you see all the trash in Baltimore destroy their own city.

Metsman Metsman
May '15

mister google - "indulge you a minute"? That's one long minute! Your rambling posts are your indulgence each time you are on HL. But, I digress.

As I posted previously; many ethnic groups who came to this country have/had to pull themselves up from abject poverty. Many share similar or worse stories to your ancestors. My family included who were denied jobs, education, entry to many privileges, etc. Homes were also not purchased until decades after our forebears set foot on US soil. There are ethnic groups here today who still suffer from this and discrimination. They face extra difficulties coming here owing money to people who may have smuggled them in. The NY Times piece on the manicurists illustrates this extremely well.

My point was that there is a segment of the black community who blames their inability on being able to achieve on their color and past and uses that as a crutch. Those same people use that as an excuse to perpetrate violence and/or forgive violence. I do not see that behavior in many other ethnic groups.

So, your very long indulgence really just proved my point since it showed that although your family had hardships to face they seemingly never resorted to violence and/or crime to achieve their "American Dream".

Stand Stand
May '15

So you would equate the black experience in America as equivalent to my Irish experience?

And who exactly has said yesterday's slavery is the excuse to perpetrate current violence? Got examples or just a list of names without substantiation?

mistergoogle mistergoogle
May '15

Your funny google. I liked the sentence. "Or maybe you just want the government to tell you what to do and make what you consider wrong illegal?" Those words coming from you?? Made me laugh. Thanks. Unless of course you misunderstood what I meant. Sally made the statement why is alcohol legal. Anything the government considers bad (sin) for you is good for them and charges you a fee for your bad behavior. The government has determined they are bad for you. Will they ever make them illegal, heck no!! Not when there's big money to be made. That big money comes in the means of taxes. Ask anyone standing in line at Quick check buying a pack of smokes for almost $9.00 a pack. That is their cross to bare paying that much because the government deemed them unhealthy, but that same government will not make them illegal because it's a money maker for them.

auntiel auntiel
May '15

I know I am taxing but I was alluding to your concept that whatever govt does must be wrong, just in it for the buck etc. Like govt is an adversarial relationship with them trying to rob us any way they can. They is us, and taxes is what keeps us going. Sure, they bumble and mistake in writing the code, but most agree that the sin tax is a viable way to raise revenue by taxing that which we feel is a luxury, a sin or other value add versus added general income or sales tax. Take away the sin tax and the tax does not go away, it just shifts to higher income or sales tax rates.

I can't imagine anyone is against taxing smokes, booze and other joyful "sins" and instead increasing our income tax rates. And we really hesitate to reduce our freedoms to do whatever we want, hurtful or not. Also, most people are for a consumption tax and the sin tax is really just a targeted consumption tax.

Technically, it is an excise tax and we have excise taxes on everything from sport fishing equipment, with obamacare - medical equipment, to as you say -- sin stuff.

Excise taxes amount to less than 10% of the total tax revenue brought in by the Fed; not a biggee. So if we got rid of it, your income tax rate would only need to rise a couple of percentage points or less. NJ gets 13% of it's revenue from excise tax. Fuel is one of the big excise tax hitters. You know, pay as you go to fix those roads.

Excise taxes are regressive, they screw the middle and poor but there's not enough luxury tax for the rich to feel the same pinch as a percentage of income versus sin. So if you got rid on it, added a couple of points to your income tax rate, the big winners would be those sinners who do not pay income tax or pay a lower rate than you.

Excise taxes are at all levels, state, local and fed although . Many states even have the uber sin tax: a tax on illegal drugs. I'll let you figure out why. Nevada puts one on prostitution although it is not a sin in that state, legally speaking. Alaska puts an additional $1.30 on a pack of cigs --- guess it's hard to cross the state border for a cheaper smoke.

I like the sin tax as part of a balanced tax breakfast. I would like to the regressive part balanced by more excise taxes on rich stuff like jets and yachts and tennis shorts making sin progressive not regressive. Most taxes, like income are general in nature whereas the sin tax is per purchase or per unit tax so more of a consumption or usage nature. It not only adds a consumption layer to the tax code but reduces our income tax rates at the same time. A nice balance I say.

And yes, less is better in all instances of course.

I know, TMI TMI ---- so tax me :>)

mistergoogle mistergoogle
May '15

Darren.... wanted to say the same thing about "the other stuff being illegal ", but you no how a lot of the HL's think on this forum. Everyone you said was absolutely correct.

sallysimpson sallysimpson
May '15

mg- The Irish experience is just one, how about the Jewish one, or as I brought up the Asian one - have you read the NY Times article?

As for the black/slavery= violence, have you ever met black people, seen them speak on TV or indeed on the internet where you seem to spend an inordinate amount of time?

I do not have to "substantiate" anything for you. Clearly, even when I do you choose to ignore them. When I deal with you I think of the phrase about arguing with fools. Well, I am no fool. So, have at it. You are someone who does not deal with reality and finds your importance on this little local site. Enjoy.

Stand Stand
May '15

Yes, many groups/people have lifted themselves up from abject poverty in a very admirable way.

But if we are going to compare one group of such people to another, remember that the family unit/extended families often are critical in success. The slave trade and slavery destroyed families in a way that was pretty much unique. The resulting hole that has had to be climbed out of was that much deeper.

Nevertheless more and more people are overcoming this and other historical difficulties (e.g. Jim Crow); ever so slowly things are getting better.


Of course you don't have to substantiate anything, feel free not to.

"have you read the NY Times article? " Yes, but which one? And what about the Argentinian experience? Or the Finnish adventure?

"As for the black/slavery= violence, have you ever met black people, seen them speak on TV or indeed on the internet where you seem to spend an inordinate amount of time?" Gee, I'm not sure, can you elaborate? Would an octoroon count? I would say substantiate but, hey, don't want to take a stand with actual facts.

Man, the dis on HL-ers importance. And yet, here you are again..... :>)

mistergoogle mistergoogle
May '15

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