Freddy Gray Homicide
http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/01/us/freddie-gray-baltimore-death/index.html
I'd love to see the evidence this prosecutor has that she can charge 6 officers in this case. There's no way all 6 did this. This looks like a move to appease the rioters, because they'd probably keep rioting if all 6 weren't charged... SMDH...
Metsman The police should walk out and let the animals kill themselves.It is ok to burn down buildings but make sure you steal all the drugs and liquor first!
IntrestGlad a new thread started on this.
The closest thing I've had, to really experiencing what it is like being a black person, was in the 60s when our integrated high school basketball team (our top scorer and best-known player was black and was my best friend in the world) won a 69-68 game on the road, at an all-white school ... and bricks were thrown through the windows as we started our ride home.
I have read that there was some misinformation about the circumstances of Freddy Gray's arrest, but for the most part, I'm going to stay away from commenting on things I don't know enough about ... which makes me "wishy washy" in the social media ramble.
I do know that I believe in sports. Our town united around our basketball team (winning does not hurt) and I've seen sports keep a lot of "at-risk" youngsters away from gangs, drugs, and trouble.
That's my philosophical difference with WRNJ ... they think sports are trivial at best, and really nothing that is worthwhile. I see it as essential to getting people to respect and understand each other.
Ok, I'll get off my soap box and do something REALLY important now ... get some lunch (-;
Andy Loigu Supposedly this guy was a drug dealer. I can't confirm that is the case, but if he was then how many people did he kill selling drugs to... How about people protest if a normal middle class citizen gets killed, not some low life. Some woman in the Phillipines is on death row for trafficking drugs. Here we throw people like that on a pedestal if they get killed. In North Korea if you disagree with Kim Jong Un you die. He executes his officials every year if they do something he doesn't like.
Based upon the news reports, my understanding is that the arrest against Freddie Gray was "unlawful". Perhaps if the officers involved initially did their job properly and adhered to the "law" the unfortunate death of Mr. Gray due to possession of a small pocket knife would have never happened and we wouldn't have to discuss the "evidence" to warrant the charges against 6 police officers.
What's your point Metsman? "Supposedly" this guy was a drug dealer say "you", so his unlawful arrest and subsequent death should just be "okay" and not protested b/c he was "supposedly" a drug dealer? Is that what you're saying? Drug dealer or not if these 6 officers are in fact guilty of the charges against them and subsequent killing of the "supposed" drug dealer do you think that's okay and nothing for anyone in his community or anywhere else to protest? I'm really trying to understand what your post above is alluding to - please explain. Perhaps you are just showing the differences of a dictatorship/communist country vs. that of a democratic/free country, was that your point?
I just saw that they charged the driver of the van with second degree murder and the rest with manslaughter. What?! So the guy who didn't even do it gets the stiffest charge?! What the hell is wrong with the legal system...
pmnsk Oh they just cast a large net to get the rats to start talking. It's plea bargaining time.
No, the burning of Baltimore does not make homicide OK. Nor is it about putting Freddy on a pedestal. But the riots might make it easier to get away with murder especially if the trial venue ends up in the suburbs. No is it not OK to kill someone just because they break the law, like drug dealing, although might be easier to get away with.
And Metsman's tin foil hat mentality saying death to drug dealers like the Philippines or death by policy disagreement like North Korea is just silly since he would never live in either of those places, not even on a bet.
Lots of knee jerk arm chair quarterbacking on this one; probably best to let the investigation complete before throwing stones. The rioters are misguided misanthropic miscreants venting their general frustration versus any sort of meaningful protest. Don't; see any linkage to police brutality and more linkage to general useless thuggery. Catch em and throw em in jail.
mistergoogle Everyone is entitled to their opinion in the great USA! However to just randomly accuse someone of being a drug dealer and therefore his life doesn't matter and police can kill him and no one should protest or show disapproval is just "ignorant", IMO! How about the guy also "supposedly" beat his children then IMO I would say that a nice bumpy ride to the police precinct was more than justified. Thanks for clarifying your point Metsman. ; )
Metsman here's a tip get yourself educated with the entire story and understand what the charges are for and why they were charged then perhaps you wouldn't make a fool out of yourself with your ignorant statements and also wouldn't have to make your own story up!
ok, couldn't resist.... I grew up in another part of the country and moved here as an adult... When I read some HL responses - where, I suppose people feel free to "let it all out" during times of racial crises in this country and around the world, I begin to check my calendar, check my map, I feel certain, sometimes, that I have traveled back decades to the south....
Missrx I read the story. There's no concrete details released. We just know he ran away when making eye contact with the police, was chased down, and subdued. Maybe they took him down to hard and didn't realize it. The point is why was he running away? Obviously he has a record and doing stuff he shouldn't be. Had he just cooperated he'd most likely be alive today. I'm not saying life doesn't matter and cops can kill, but I get tired of people protesting and making martyrs out of men who are up to no good and are a nuisance to society.
Supposedly this guy was a drug dealer. I can't confirm that is the case, but if he was then how many people did he kill selling drugs to...
Metsman
Since you can't comfirm, then why make the comment? Also a drug dealer is only successful IF he has clients. If people don't buy, then he has no one to sell to. People go to drug dealers FIRST not the other way around. And if they do approach anyone you can just say no and walk away unless you are doing.............
The other day you wanted to proof read what Andy writes for the paper. NOW you want to examine evidence in an alleged murder case. What would the world do without you?
Clyde Potts JPT - If you comment was directed to what I wrote then please re-read my entire sentence and don't take words out of context - here is the entire sentence:
Drug dealer or not " IF" these 6 officers are in fact guilty of the charges against them and subsequent killing of the "supposed" drug dealer do you think that's okay and nothing for anyone in his community or anywhere else to protest?
Clyde I was partially kidding with Andy not sure why that's worth bringing up. And I was being hypothetical about the drug dealing. If he was a good guy, why run away? What were the cops terminators sent from the future to kill him...
I never said it was ok to kill, I'm just not going to shed a tear if he was a dealer and got killed.
Andy, I enjoy reading your posts. I grew up in NYC and played Pop Warner football on a mostly white, mixed race team. My coach, god bless him, treated everyone the same and taught us at a very young age that we all should get along. This was in the early 1970s when tensions were high. We treated everyone (coaches, parents, family members) with respect and I formed good friendships regardless of skin color. Sports brings people together, at least back then. Today, as you know, is a different story.
mike l Supposedly this guy was a drug dealer. I can't confirm that is the case, but if he was then how many people did he kill selling drugs to... Some woman in the Phillipines is on death row for trafficking drugs.
Metsman
Before you look at the evidence of this prosecutor, you should check YOUR facts first:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-04-29/mary-jane-veloso-spared-from-indonesian-firing-squad/6429262
You are wondering how many people did he kill selling drugs to? Well Charles Manson is STILL ALIVE and was scheduled (since cancelled) to get married. And we KNOW he did kill.
Seriously Metsman now the "supposedly" is "hypothetically"?!?!? Get a dictionary along with getting educated on the story that YOU started this thread on. I'm done. PMNSK said it best "not even worth commenting on" - wish I hadn't bothered but had to call out your BS made up story on the "drug dealing" - again he was arrested "unlawfully" per the State Prosecutor, for being in the possession of a small (pocket) knife - legally.
Lots of knee jerk arm chair quarterbacking on this one; probably best to let the investigation complete before throwing stones.
mistergoogle
AGREE mister gog.
Which is why this (and the other) thread on this topic should be pulled. None of us were there, nor do any of us know what goes on there on a daily basis between the police & the community, to have a feel of what the people go through. We only see what TV shows, or wants to show us. Without modern tech, we would have no knowledge of this or the other incidents. So we must ask, is this new (lack of better word) or has tech. just revealed something that has been going on for years? I nor anyone else on here can answer that.
Ok the point of the thread is why are all 6 charged when maybe 1 or 2 of them caused the death. It's not about the morality of police and whether it's ok to kill a drug dealer. What's the evidence that all 6 should be charged? It probably happened in seconds.
These are the supposed arrests on Freddy Gray's record:
March 20, 2015: Possession of a Controlled Dangerous Substance
March 13, 2015: Malicious destruction of property, second-degree assault
January 20, 2015: Fourth-degree burglary, trespassing
January 14, 2015: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute
December 31, 2014: Possession of narcotics with intent to distribute
December 14, 2014: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance
August 31, 2014: Illegal gambling, trespassing
January 25, 2014: Possession of marijuana
September 28, 2013: Distribution of narcotics, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, second-degree assault, second-degree escape
April 13, 2012: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, violation of probation
July 16, 2008: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession with intent to distribute
March 28, 2008: Unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance
March 14, 2008: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to manufacture and distribute
February 11, 2008: Unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession of a controlled dangerous substance
August 29, 2007: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, violation of probation
August 28, 2007: Possession of marijuana
August 23, 2007: False statement to a peace officer, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance
July 16, 2007: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance (2 counts)
D-ManPV Clyde, so I mistook which country the woman was in... whoop dee doo...
Metsman
But yet, you want to check others work lmao
D-Man and this is the man people are making into a martyr... Tell me the guy is a loving father devoted to supporting his family and gets killed cooperating with police then I can understand protesting.
botheredbyuu2 Where's the evidence of murder? Perhaps the prosecutor should share that.
Metsman
http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/01/us/freddie-gray-baltimore-death/index.html
btw: Who posted this link?
Metsman - how else would he get a "critical neck injury"? Did it to himself? Believe that and I got a bridge to sell you.
Thanks for posting that link Clyde.
So am I reading this correctly... They are charged for not buckling his seatbelt?! Omg... So that may give credibility to the testimony of another prisoner saying they could hear Gray whacking his head around.
it's not illegal to run away from a cop, looks like they pursued him at first because he saw them and then decided to put some space between them quickly,
that by itself is not illegal,
so he smoked some weed? (i say so what), is that what the record shows? and he shared it with some of his circle? (again, not a capitol crime)
well, then, so what, he's a toker who ran, so i guess it's now ok for the cops to break his back in two places, he should have known better, yes?
i mean we must, all of us, totally obey every single law on the books at all times or be prepared to suffer deadly consequences, yes?
yes?
a guy in NY selling a couple of cigs on the sidewalk, and he gets killed by overzealous cops, why is selling so called 'loosies' even illegal? i mean really , what's the big deal with it? and because of this 'loosies' law, a man has lost his life, maybe we should indict the legislature for involuntary manslaughter in cases like this?
there is something wrong here that i think we need to discuss, why is it that so many non-violent minor infractions of the law end up with a dead suspect?
BrotherDog True, but fatally by yourself, handcuffed. Doubt it. But IF he did do it to himself, the clip states the cops never got him help when they saw he was injured.
Lets let the judicial system work, even though A LOT of times it doesn't.
Journalism is a field where, even unintentionally, mistakes sometimes get made.
One problem with today's everything fast, instant opinion media and social media world is, everyone is jumping to conclusions.
The "media" (as if it is one big monolithic entity) should know better but they have gotten caught up in the get it first (never mind if it is accurate) mentality of the day.
Anyway, getting back to sports experiences from almost 50 years ago, I do remember hearing assistant coaches on other teams calling out the "n-word" to try to get under the skin of my black teammates. Often, I got called (n-word)-lover, by adults in authority WHO WERE COACHES. Like I said, thanks to high school sports in those days, I do have some sense of what it is like to be a black person.
Everybody should read about why Muhammad Ali threw his Olympic Gold Medal into the Ohio River. He not only was refused service in an eating establishment, he had to fight for his life, when some guys on motorcycles went after him.
I would hope things are better than that now, in a new millennium.
That mom who stopped her son from taking part in the destruction and violence, she's our new national hero. GOOD FOR HER! Glad someone captured that on camera. There is no love greater than a mother's love, and sometimes it needs to be tough love.
Andy now child protective services is investigating her. You even look at a kid funny nowadays they show up on your doorstep...
Philliesman I agree that running from a cop is stupid and most certainly ups the risk of being harmed no matter what the crime or innocence.
That said, you gotta admit, there has probably not been a better time in a long time to risk running from a cop. Cops certainly must be, pardon the expression, gun shy in these times. I mean, Bin Laden jogging with Charley Manson could probably make a cop hesitate before pulling the trigger.
Unless of course it's a volunteer cop, then you don't stand a chance.
(the proceeding thread was sarcasm and not meant to incite anything)
Whatever, that mom kept her kid from doing something violent, getting arrested, getting a record that would have followed him the rest of his life.
You're damned if you do, and damned if you don't, in this "modern" world.
Hope all you young whippersnappers figure it all out, I'm getting too old for all this.
It's no fun watching history repeat over and over again.
There is still time for the Ravens to draft that mom to be a linebacker.
Opposing running backs and quarterbacks beware!
Somehow I don't think that kid would have responded to, "please be a good boy and refrain from rioting and looting with your gansta pals."
She did what it took and I'd hope the "authorities" look upon her leniently.
Too many of these kids grow up in fatherless homes, another issue entirely, but certainly a major part of the problem.
" Bin Laden jogging with Charley Manson could probably make a cop hesitate before pulling the trigger."
As it should be. The judicial is in charge of dolling out punishment, at least that's the way it's supposed to be...
justintime The Baltimore mom is not being investigated. Didn't sound right to me.
http://now.snopes.com/2015/05/01/baltimore-mom-cps/
maja Sitting on my hands.....had no idea there were so many ready to jump and fabricate and damn folk out in this neck of the woods................won't be reading this thread again
5catmom So it appears from D-Mans post that Freddy may in fact have been a drug dealer. I think we can get that argument out of the way. Does this mean it's ok that he's dead? Of course not, but sometimes the lifestyle you lead puts you in a high risk category.
Not sure what the point was about a drug dealer being successful IF he has clients? Once someone knows you sell drugs it doesn't take long to build a clientele. Any drugs sold to others could result in death.
If you are a law abiding citizen you would have no reason to run from the police in the first place. If the pocket knife was legal and he had nothing to hide, why run?
There is nothing wrong with people wanting to get their voices heard in situations like this. There is a big difference between a peaceful protest and rioting, looting, and burning down buildings.
Nothing wrong with what that mom did. Maybe if more people kept their kids in line they wouldn't be acting out the way they do. I was smacked on the backside in my early years...Fast forward to my teenage years and I was backhanded across the mouth whenever I got mouthy. I turned out just fine.
JRT 
fitter @pmnsk: So agree that some posts here are like time travel to the South, or lately the blatant racism all around.
iRun 
Teenie I heard tonight that some were calling what the mom did was abuse. What that mom did was love. I'm really saddened by a world where that would be questioned at all.
Personally, I think the bigger issue isn't white against black, it's the militarization and overstep of the police force vs the citizenry. Big picture.
IDK what happened, but if those cops broke that guy's spine, every one of them should be convicted. And how about this- a lot of people are for "heavier sentences for killing cops"??? How about heavier sentences for cops UNJUSTIFIABLY killing the citizenry?
Bad seed or not, drug dealer or not.... you don't break someone's back resulting in their death. Law enforcement is getting OUT OF CONTROL.
JeffersonRepub This country is screwed. We sit here and value the lives of scumbags that hurt other people, you can't discipline your kids, and when cops do their job it's always a race war. More cops are just going to get killed because they'll be afraid to shoot a black man with a gun.
The tribal mentality. Unfortunately those who inhabit this great country do not all identify themselves as American, rather many races, ethnic groups, and religions...
iJay 
auntiel Now.... as far as I can see, there will probably be installations of Video and Sound Recording in police and transfer / vehicles in the not too distant future.
Video cams on the cops
Video cams in the cars,
and Video cams on the canines.
Embryodad mug shots of the cops are out. 3 of them are black. I don't want to hear a damn word from anyone that this is race related....
Metsman
some of your posts are amazingly stupid so More cops are just going to get killed because they'll be afraid to shoot a black man with a gun
that's the problem these cops are killing people who are unarmed they would have justification if these people were armed but they're not I guess you can put the rest the he had a switchblade turns out he didn't just a pocket knife perfectly legal to carry the only reason the cops put switchblade in their official report is to justify the arrest like I said a couple times on here under no circumstances do you ever trust the police
"If you are a law abiding citizen you would have no reason to run from the police in the first place. If the pocket knife was legal and he had nothing to hide, why run?"
JRT
Guess we'll never know b/c the victim that ran is now dead! However, he allegedly did run got caught and died in police custody - hmmmm still wonder why he ran? I think it's more than obvious why he ran.
Does the same question apply to Walter Scott from S. Carolina? He too ran and was shot to death with numerous bullets (I believe it was 6) pumped into his back.
IMO I believe it's called police brutality. According to some news reports Freddie died from a severed spine and crushed voice box. Also per news reports seems the Baltimore police are not very fond of the African American youth in the City of Baltimore - too bad Freddie didn't run fast enough!
luvlife there are most definitely instances where police brutality occurs and I don't believe that anyone is denying that. The point is not EVERY case is. You say..."Guess we'll never know b/c the victim that ran is now dead!" Uh, yeah.
So the news says the police are not fond of African American youth? That's very interesting don't you think?
"If you are a law abiding citizen you would have no reason to run from the police in the first place. If the pocket knife was legal and he had nothing to hide, why run?"
Maybe he ran because he had some reason to believe that the police might arrest him with probable cause, cause him serious injury, refuse him medical treatment and let him die from his injuries. No... that would never happen.
gadfly It's basically criminal to say anything negative toward black people now. Look at the outcry from the people on this forum when someone said the rioters are in the wrong. Extreme double standards in racism is here to stay.
What difference does it matter why Freddie Gray ran? The issue is, he was arrested without cause.The issue is, he died while in police custody. The issue is, Freddie Gray said he needed medical attention and did not receive it. The issue in not whether he had a criminal history. The issue is not that he reportedly "banged his head against the wall" and because it is suspected he caused his own injury he should not receive medical attention.
The question was raised why all six officers were charged. Those six officers have a responsibility to act individually when necessary, such as a man requesting medical assistance, and apparently none of them did. Therefore they are complicit in his death. Until the entire chain of events unfolds, everything else is speculation. There is apparently more to this than we currently know.
Lone Star Philliesman. Please point to where anyone in this thread has condoned rioting or criticized anyone for condemning rioting. You're delusional.
This thread has essentially been about Metsman claiming that it's okay for the cops to detain someone with out cause, cause them to have a fatal injury and withhold medical care, provided that person may have sold drugs in the past. You seem to agree with him. Most of the posters have been expressing their disagreement with that position, or discussing the history and causes of racial tensions in urban areas.
racism is here to stay.
It's a part of multi cultureism, and having many different values.
Political moves and laws often defy common sense.
Common sense in culture once was based on Judo Christian Values. Now many law's have someones name on it defining someones in justice, affecting all causing division.
Old Gent The whole thing makes me sick. Facts need to be disclosed before everyone jumps to conclusions. Fact is these cops work in a war zone. Fact is 80% of inner city crimes are committed by blacks and mostly against their own. Who is to say what you would do in a situation where you feel threatened? Fact is this Freddie dude was a know drug dealer and had been arrested 18 times in the past year alone. It was only a matter of time before he ended up exactly where he is be it by officers of the law or by his own criminal associates. Fact is it doesn't warrant burning and pillaging a community in "protest". This was not a protest.....it was pure evil...society needs to fear GOD again and stop the insanity that is overtaking the world. There are no repercussions for doing wrong any longer. You can't smack your kid upside the head for fear of being incarcerated for abuse as they are trying to do to the momma reprimanding her son during the riot. Time to come back to GOD and the principles this country was founded upon.
JET "There are no repercussions for doing wrong any longer."
Huh? The US has the highest incarceration rate in the world!
JRT - I never said police brutality occurred in EVERY case - but I believe it occurs more often than we will ever know. Today many people have cell phones with video capability and we the public are seeing this unjust brutality more and more. You had the question as to why would he run if he were a law abiding citizen. What I was pointing out is that per yesterday's statement by the prosecutor of Baltimore, she stated that Freddie's arrest was "unlawful". Am I saying he's a complete saint - no never said that, but perhaps he knew something regarding the police in Baltimore that we don't - just my opinion, but it certainly didn't end well for Freddie. I also don't believe he severed his own spine or crushed his own voice box but who knows guess we'll all have to wait for all the details, medical examiners report, trial, etc. Finally, No I don't find it interesting that the Baltimore City police are not fond of the African American youth - I find it extremely sad - for all the youth as well as their families.
I can't believe I live in the deepest south of the northeast. Then again I can, the longer i stay.
Gadfly you need to learn reading comprehension. people are putting words in my mouth. We know this wasn't a racial killing at least. 3 of the cops are black. And that's what pisses me off about these rioters. I think they're the racists. Go get a job and be of use to society...
So basically they're charging these cops because they didn't buckle his seat belt. It sounds like he went ballistic and may have hurt himself. No evidence or eyewitness testimony has come forward that the cops hurt him. So really all they should be on the hook for was arresting him for no reason. They probably didn't take his medical request seriously because of his behavior. I'm not comfortable ruining 6 people's lives just to appease a bunch of scumbag rioters... Show the public some real evidence.
Ok, so bc the prosecutor didn't run n the evidence past Metsman prior to filing charges, all charges should be dropped. Good thinking.
The prosecutor and all involved in the courts are black, I believe, and elected. If so I would like to see no conflicts of interest excuses. Just see how the community handles the law and Justice.
eyes_of_truths Metsman,
You're whining that all of the evidence hasn't been released while the charges have just been filed. And on that basis you're calling almost all of the charges invalid. That's simply ridiculous.
Because the charges basically say because they didn't seat belt him that these officers are charged with 2nd degree murder and manslaughter. That's insane.
I believe the charges stem more from the fact that no medical attention was sought than the fact that no seat belt was used.
Aquarius As I understand it they arrested the guy illegally and then intentionally gave him a "rough ride", which apparently is a common term used for rendering a prisoner helpless by handcuffing him and throwing him in the paddy wagon without belting him in. Then by driving erratically, you can slam him against the metal walls. Of course the officers also allegedly withheld medical care and let the poor guy die. So, it's a little bit more than failure to seatbelt someone. Of course, you already knew that.
We won't know the evidence until the trial, so we'll have to wait and see. Or, you can continue to claim there's no evidence just because the prosecutor hasn't shared it with you.
Ok so first some people got all fired up because it was stated that Freddy was a drug dealer...which in fact he was.
Then it turned into "What's the big deal if he ran?" as if he was just leaving choir practice and was heading to church. He may not have had anything illegal on him at the moment, but maybe he just did something prior to seeing the cops, we'll never know. You don't run unless you're guilty of something.
Then the theory came that he may have known it was common practice for the Baltimore police to beat people in their custody and that's why he ran. If that was the case then why would the people in that community wait until someone died to protest? They should have tried to get their voices heard to bring change to their city long before a tragedy occurred. Instead they chose to destroy it with anger, emotion, and rage.
If these cops are responsible for his death then they should be charged accordingly. In saying that, we do not know if at least some of his injury was caused by his own actions. Yes, it was stated that he did not receive medical care when he requested it, but one report did say that they made a stop to check on him. Who knows? I think we have to wait for more details. The charges were brought up rather quickly and hopefully it turns out to be a fair trial for everyone involved.
"You don't run unless you're guilty of something. "
Would you run from a bear? Or from a car careening toward you? Fear is a powerful motivator, whether one is "guilty" or not.
Overall I agree though. There's always too much speculation when these events occur, too much rushing to judgement and too much "certainty" as to what actually happened by people who couldn't possibly know (ahem, *all* of us here). That's why we have a system of justice that is supposed to work through the details to get to the truth.
And also why bypassing that system of justice for expediency is wrong on everyone's part: from police that think it's OK to dole out justice on their own, to prosecutors who care not about innocence or guilt but rather conviction numbers, and to us lowly citizens conveying on this forum how absolutely certain why this or that fact is correct, there is no way for any of us to know ALL the details until an impartial investigation is done.
But this is the world we live in, one in which we are presented information as certain by our news outlets and politicians things that are quite uncertain, leaving us the daily task to try and figure out what's true and what's not.
IOW, speculation is just that, speculation. This, like every story before it, needs to play out.
lol! justintime They say if you run from a bear...it will chase you. Guess it's the same for the cops:) I agree with the rest of your post!
lol JRT, the next time you are confronted by a bear we'll see who's theory is correct ;-)
No matter, neither of us were there so this is just talk anyway. Suffice it to say that neither of us knows what we would do given the situation.
Same stuff going on in your favorite country 5catmom...
http://news.yahoo.com/ethiopian-israelis-protest-against-police-brutality-160226822.html
Just following up on your comment... good and bad people EVERYWHERE, no country or ethnic group is immune from having the full gamut...
I don't understand your point JIT. It seems to me that almost nobody on this thread had claimed to know what actually happened.
I'm posting here and not on the thread about the police officer killed in NYC.
In response to the posts on that thread, there were whites protesting AND RIOTING AND LOOTING in Baltimore. I sat here and watched it. They were also getting pepper sprayed and defying the curfew AND getting arrested. I can see that some of you are pin pointing 1 race and it sickens me. Yes, the majority of the protesters and looters were black, but some whites joined in too.
I won't be back to read your bigotry posts, so don't bother responding to this post. Don't waste your time.
The footage I saw was all black people, but it wouldn't surprise me if some low life white people joined in too. Black people aren't the only ones in gangs.
Looks like this case is starting to unravel. Looks like evidence the police have doesn't support the prosecutors case.
" Looks like evidence the police have doesn't support the prosecutors case."
I'm absolutely *shocked* that a police investigation into a police brutality case didn't find anything wrong. SHOCKED I tell you!
Mark Mc. I'm just going to leave this here...
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/may/05/freddie-gray-baltimore-police-brian-rice
What happened to "Innocent until proven guilty"???? Oh I forgot!!!!!! That doesn't apply to law enforcement, until criminals!!!!!!
Ms. Justice The people that rioted and burned police cars are on video , no ? There's a camera on every corner ... But we can't hold black people accountable for their actions because they will just riot again.
The ones who were on the police car stomping on it how may times were they told to get down off the car ? if you owned a store and looters were breaking in to steel would you be just in defending your self and your property if it ment letting go with a shot gun blast or 5 and 6 more ? stones thrown at police should have been thrown back at the crowd ?
Caged Animal To me it's all about numbers and what group is in the majority of a certain area.
Let's say there is an area that is at least 70% black.. than of course you are going to have more crimes committed by blacks, however that would apply to whites or any other ethnic group If they were in the majority in a certain area. Just common sense to me.
It's horrible to see how divided we've become, which has caused so much hatred.
Whatever happened to living together in peace, like Martin Luther King wanted? I thought we came a long way, but now I only see regression. Very scary....
positive The regression is because many black people didn't listen to King. You have to help yourself. Taking hand outs and living off the system just leads to crime. How many of the people who take freely from everyone else are committing crimes as well? I'm sure it is a compelling statistic.
"Show me an area with 70% white that has a high crime rate."
Can't do that Metsman, but I can show you that 70% of total arrests were white:
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/tables/table-43
Stupid white people.
justintime, thanks for posting that link. I hope other posters will read it and wake up to reality. I know I'm being naive, but I'm still hopeful....
Ask Metsman if he considers the 17% of the crimes that were committed by Hispanics to be "white" crimes... because I'm pretty sure they were calculated that way statistically... right or wrong, for whatever it's worth.
ianimal Just in case some people do not want to take the time to read justintime's link, the statistics show that in 2013 whites were arrested more often for violent crimes
than any other race. Also, the total percentage of arrests made by race: other races 2.9%, blacks 28.3% and at the top..whites 68.9%.
Since I am white..of course I'm not putting down my own race, but I will not stand for racism and that goes across the board. However, we are talking about whites and blacks and the fact is many (not some) white people think they are superior. It just shows how much ignorance and hatred that is out there.
Btw- I wonder what Lobo thinks with the low arrest rate for "other races", which includes Hispanics. Lol
"Other races" does NOT include Hispanics, as Hispanic is not a race. Hispanics are included in either white or black, mostly white. So, the 17% of the crimes committed by Hispanics needs to be subtracted from the 68% overall white, if you wish to consider the two groups separately.
So, for non-Hispanic whites, they commit 51% of the crime, while making up 71% of the overall population. Hispanics are a wash at about 17% each in crime and population.
Blacks do commit a disproportionate rate of crimes at 28% while comprising only 12% of the overall population. But that's primarily due to their overwhelmingly high rates of poverty rather than due to the color of their skin, obviously.
Ok you are right, Hispanics are an ethnic group not a race and I wasn't aware that they were considered in the white/black statistical category. When I read it I was a little confused about that and just assumed they were classified in "other races".
Anyway, ian I'm sure you got my point.
Baltimore police warned of Freddie Gray officer's feud with man he got arrested
Brian Rice filed criminal charges against his ex-girlfriend’s husband in 2013, incorrectly accusing him of breaking a court order, according to sealed court documents obtained by the Guardian. Rice tried to have the same man, Andrew McAleer, arrested again two weeks before Gray’s arrest last month.
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/may/12/freddie-gray-officer-feud
LeRoy Grimace I believe that Ianimal is correct. You'll recall that during after Travon Martin was killed, the media referred to Zimmerman as a white hispanic. The conservative loons accused the media of trying stir up racial tension, but it was a correct demographic term as ianimal describes above.
You nailed it Gadfly. That's why when racists target the black/white divide with their "facts" proving that blacks are inferior as a group, they mistake Hispanics, having seen them culled out on all the previous statistics, as non-white.
These are the same type of people who coined the terms quarteron, octoroon and quintroon for the US, others for other countries delineating the percentage of mixed race. Most of these terms were mid 1800's coinage but who cares. What kinds of people need to specify, determine, and count that? I mean as an individual you might want to know your heritage, but do we really need percentage-based race definitions? No, it's all about racism, labeling that which is different, and then generalizing ill about the label.
Racists want to believe race determines outcome and that environment can be easily overcome. Racists believe, and this is a tough one, that all races have equal chance for success when racists are to ones actively blocking that from happening in the first place.
Baltimore's issue is poverty, the root cause is poverty. You beat that back and much of the evil generalizations will fade away. Poverty is worse today than yesterday so the symptoms are worse too. And while we have made inroads, the general problems remain unchanged from 1965 as typified in The Moynihan Report: http://www.blackpast.org/primary/moynihan-report-1965
What the report says is family is one of the greatest issues keeping many in the black community in poverty. "Employment in turn reflects educational achievement, which depends in large part on family stability, which reflects employment. Where we should break into this cycle...." "Three centuries of injustice have brought about deep-seated structural distortions in the life of the Negro American. At this point, the present tangle of pathology is capable of perpetuating itself without assistance from the white world. The cycle can be broken only if these distortions are set right."
It's a tough fight that will need patience and a multi-faceted attack. And there will be mistakes and set-backs. If only we could invest half of what we invest to rebuild Iraq in our cities, we would see great progress. Half.
"Anyway, ian I'm sure you got my point."
no I'm not sure what the point is once we use ianimal's facts? Yes white peopele commit crimes, no one is arguing they don't. And yes obviously the total # of crimes commited in the US would be done by whites, since they make up the majority of the population. If that was not true then we would have a much bigger issue on our hands.
But using JIT's link, if we break it down by percentages and assume each of those arrests were seperate individuals then 2.4% of whites were arrested in 2013 while 6.3% of blacks were arrested and 2.2% of Hispanics were arrested. so why was a higher % of blacks arrested in 2013 than whites and Hispanics?
darwin In answer to Darwin's question:
1) An obvious one: A greater percentage of people living in areas high in poverty commit crimes. A higher percentage of black people live in such areas.
2) Not so obvious: A black person who commits a crime has a greater chance of being arrested than a white person who commits the same crime (for example drug crimes).
jd2 2) Not so obvious: A black person who commits a crime has a greater chance of being arrested than a white person who commits the same crime (for example drug crimes).
That is a lame excuse. Because a crime is still being commited, So a simple solution to that is NOT to commit the crime. Especially if you think you are more likely to get caught, that's even more reason not to commit the crime in the first place.
Not "making excuses", simply analyzing the statistics at issue. Most of us have heard the expression "there are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics".
And so it is, that statistics rarely say what they seem to say, at first glance.
it was of critical importance for the reverse racist liberal MSM to paint zimmerman as a white man who killed a black man out of racial animus. (not true btw, they perpetrated a false story line very successfully, nbc was even caught red handed in drumming up and falsifying a non-existent racial motive)
the MSM with their PC (whites are always guilty of racism) agenda constructed their talking points by painting zmmerman as a hispanic at first, but they quickly figured out they'd get a lot more mileage out of a 'white kills black' story line instead of a 'hispanic kills black' report. it seems that no one really cares if hispanics kills blacks or if blacks kill blacks, nor does the MSM care if blacks kill whites, because it doesn't fit their pre-determined conclusion that whites are always wrong. and guilty of racial bias.
looks like they were right in making up the racial story because their 'white man kills a black man' scenario got them a lot more clicks than the 'minority kills another minority' story line ever would or could.
wow!
thanks gadfly for bringing this up
Problem is Darwin we all commit "crimes" every day. All of us. It's just that many of those crimes are ignored. Take the crime of selling cigarettes individually-how often do you think that crime is addressed? Or are some of these "crimes" used as an excuse to target certain populations and not others? It's a reality you don't have to deal with, but guess who does...
that is total bs JIT.
Traffice violation, ok maybe we all commit a traffic violation everyday. But a crime?? not likely.
darwin,
But go back to jd2's example of drug crimes. Think of all the white people who are getting away with these types of crimes because they aren't targeted to the same degree as their black counterparts. You don't think that is skewing the statistics?
MB then explain: 2.4% of whites were arrested in 2013 while 2.2% of Hispanics were arrested?
if we assume that blacks are targeted more than whites and we have to think of ALL the white people that are commiting crimes and getting away with it, wouldn't you think the Hispanic % would be higher than the white % too? Wouldn't you assume Hispanics are targeted more than white people as well?
Darwin, using ian's facts? I admitted that I made a mistake and therefore agreed with him. I guess you're just trying to look for an argument, but you are barking up the wrong tree. I try not to argue with narrow minded argumentative people, life itself is stressful enough...
I guess it would seem that I'm arguing with you right now, but I am not. I just wanted to correct your lack of comprehension concerning my above post.
So a grand jury of their peers has determined there was enough evidence to indict all 6 officers. Perhaps not just one AG's vendetta against the accused...
What happened to innocent until proven guilty??? Does the constitution only apply to criminals and not law enforcement??? Why don't we support law enforcement. They are right most of the time and are only human!!!!!
Wow Ms. Justice... you do realize that indictment doesn't mean guilty, right?
Not to mention that statistically speaking, police officers tend to be involved in crime more than most people... go look up some domestic violence stats, for example...
From http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/05/robert-farago/ct-cops-carve-out-on-gun-violence-restraining-order/
"The National Center for Women and Policing noted in a heavily footnoted information sheet, “Two studies have found that at least 40 percent of police officer families experience domestic violence, in contrast to 10 percent of families in the general population. A third study of older and more experienced officers found a rate of 24 percent, indicating that domestic violence is two to four times more common among police families than American families in general.”
Just because someone puts on striped pants and a stamped metal badge doesn't give them magical moral superiority, but you seen to want to give them a free pass just because of the uniform they wear.
Yes, I do KNOW what an indictment means!! However, the general public (people like you) have already convicted these law enforcement officers!!!!!
Looks like the whole world is upside down because of people like you, who have made heros out of the "Bad Guys" and "Bad Guys" out to be the villians!!!!
Hey, "Bad Guy", "Bad Guy", who you gonna call when you need help??????
P.S. I am not opening your link because I don't trust people like you. Probably a virus!!!!!
"the general public (people like you) have already convicted these law enforcement officers!!!!!"
Not sure if you missed it, but this happens *every* time a crime is committed that evokes an emotional response, regardless of a uniform or lack thereof. Search HL for any crime thread and you'll find vitrol that will make your stomach turn. Sad but true...
There are good cops and bad cops, just like there are good and bad janitors, pilots, teachers, journalists, lawyers, doctors, etc. They are people.
You asking us to give them a "pass" simply because of their *job*, as ifc that is automatic sainthood, is just stereotypically ridiculous as what you are claiming to abhor.
If someone in my custody (basically kidnapped against their will) died of decidedly un-natural causes, you can bet your ass I'd be in jail accused of a crime. All that's happening is they are being held to the same standard.
One could logically surmise that bad people are drawn to police work because of the power it affords them over others. Comversely, good people are drawn to it because of the opportunity it affords them to help others.
The ratio of one to the other is therefore highly variable, as nepotism in that particular field is common, if not the rule. If the ruling family(ies) in a given community are belevolent, then you will have a fair and respected force. But if there's a culture of "us versus them", then you end up with an antagonistic relationship with the community where there is the impression of unfair treatment and corruption.
KIDNAPPED???? You gotta be kidding!!!! Don't you know that the kidnapping charges were dropped by the grand jury??
Law enforcement being held to the same standard as the public is fine - but they never are!!!! They are pre-judged and tried on the streets, smart phones, twitter, facebook, and the liberal mainstream media. They deserve the benefit of being presumed innocent until proven guilt( just as ordinary citizens). Wait for all the facts to come out and until they get a FAIR trial (which they will never get in Baltimore).
How would you like being thrown under the bus by the people you work for, such as the Mayor, Police Commissioner, Prosecutor, etc. It's called politics and corruption!!
Would you enjoy watching hoods looting, vandalizing, and having rocks and glass bottles thrown at you for two days??? I don't think so Mark Mc. Take the handcuffs off the police and put them on the hoods where they belong.
Do you care or have any sympathy for the business owners and their employees who are now out of a job?? I wonder how they are surviving without cash???? What about the residents who have to live with these hoods and fear going out of their houses. Can't be very pleasant.
I am not impressed by the uniform and badge. I am impressed by the risks the police take everyday to protect innocent law abiding citiziens!!!!! And as far as their spouses's, significant others go and their relationships - FRANKLY I DON'T GIVE A DAMN!!!!!
You have a great night!!!!!!!!!!!! MARK MC
Yes kidnapped. The police are entrusted with the power to detain you against your will. Part of that trust is while detained you don't happen to die from a broken neck or other injury.
Ignore statistics about police being involved in a disproportionate percentage of domestic abuse all you want. Blinders are comforting I suppose.
Good cops should be the first ones to oppose the bad cops tainting their profession, but how much is swept under the rug?
35 people killed in Baltimore in May so far. Where is the protests and riots for these senseless killings? 108 killings year to date.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/05/26/2-shot-dead-in-bloody-memorial-day-weekend-in-baltimore-capping-off-deadliest/?intcmp=latestnews
Are you advocating rioting Darwin; seems a bit harsh.
Or are you just making some sort of joke?
It's black on black crime so there is no interest from the national media or our politicians. The thugs, now called misguided youth, have no fear of the police disrupting their criminal activities. I feel sorry for the law abiding citizens that have to raise their kids and live in those neighborhoods.
kb2755 Not making a joke MG. just pointing out that the other 104 murders didn't make national news or cause riots. And those murderers had intent to kill their victims.
Is it that hard to understand? People tend to be outraged when public servents kill citizens without just cause. Particularly true when there is no repercussion, or none expected. People expect criminals to kill people. This line of argument is silly, Darwin.
Race/class division is text and verse from the Communist Manifesto and reinforced by Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals". Social unrest is a key strategy toward economy socialization.... This 'unrest' is contrived CHAOS>>>The man behind the Curtain is George Soro's who is the man who put Obama in the White House....
Americans.... WAKE UP!
http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Ferguson-Missouri-paid protesters/2015/05/25/id/646587/
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jan/14/george-soros-funds-ferguson-protests-hopes-to-spur/?page=all
http://www.theblogmocracy.com/2012/02/20/the-real-george-soros-an-evil-despicable-excuse-for-a-human-being-no-wonder-the-libs-love-the-pos/
sha44ss Reality takes hold. May was the deadliest month in 15 years for Baltimore. That city is going to be heading down hill for a long time to come. When the people you serve treat you with total disrespect, and contempt, and your own Mayor, and Police Commissioner all throw you under the bus, good luck getting things back on track this decade.
http://www.policeone.com/patrol-issues/articles/8557727-Baltimore-gets-bloodier-as-arrests-drop-post-Freddie-Gray
Denis OMgoodness, the Soros leads the left conspiracy again. If that's the case, then Koch Bro's are telling you want to do.
Soro's response here: http://www.hackettstownlife.com/forum/627200#t685677
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