Condo/HOA fees
I have been looking at real estate, anything along the east coast, except New Jersey. Taxes too high. I know, surprising, huh? Anyway, the listings rarely post the fees. Since I am not very serious at this point, I am not ready to have 50 different realtors calling and emailing just yet and don't want to waste their time until I am ready. Does anyone know a site that I could view fees without having to log in, etc. I just want to be able to type in the building name , subdivision, or town and have a "master list " or something similar. Mr. Google? I guess by your name you're resourceful, any suggestions? I was on the net for two hours... finally gave up.
sallysimpson Hi Sally, this has been my experience, i would not deal with any place that has hoa fees, when i became unemployed and could not pay the fees, they took over the house in New Jersey they can do that, i still own the place but cant live there, they have so much power. Just and Opinion, my name is Joe and feel free to email me anytime and give me your number if you want to talk about it. Also, the fees go up random, and sometimes alot, i believe there is alot of corruption involved
jt 16 Sally - I doubt there is any central place to gather that information. But - I have never had experiences like jt 16. I have lived in 3 condo/townhome communities. I have been on boards of two for a total of 18 years. Never have we arbitrarily jacked up fees. In fact major efforts are made to keep them reasonable. They will vary depending on the age of the place, how well funded the reserves are, and what the amenities are. Powers are limited in condos but much less so in coops - (which I would avoid).
BTW one of the reasons fees go up more than board members like is because of the number of people who don't pay their fees. The money has to come from somewhere. Boards can file liens but, at least from my experience, those who don't pay are able to stay for years. The same is true when they don't pay their morgages. The courts' wheels in New Jersey turn very slowly. What you generally get for your fees, among other things, is the outside maintenance of your home and roads. If you were in a private home these would be your expenses.
As to corruption - dubious at best. Board members are homeowners. They pay the same things as everyone else. I never met a board member who as anxious to have a large monthly increase.
5catmom Thanks jt and 5cat...interesting hearing from both sides of the coin. Looks like I have a lot more research. Nice people on this forum... to offer a call or email, out of their own time, to help. Thanks everyone.
If you just want to look without giving any personal info you can go to zillow.com. or trulia .com. You punch in the area you are looking for and it lists ( I believe all real estate for sale). You can narrow down your search by price, size, and location. it will tell you what the HOA fees are and the taxes, As well as what amenities there are. There is no log in required.
Parental unit Try the Garden State Multiple State Listing Serving at http://www.gsmls.com/ You need to click more details to access the association fees. Good luck!
TrishyLou Thanks "Parent"..... I was having trouble with Zillow before. I got this new "pad" and use a stylist(sp?) instead of a keyboard. Zillow and Tulia were just disappearing or sliding all over the place. Well, just tried again and worked much better. Guess I needed a little more practice. Might have to break of the keyboard, though. Thanks again to all and to all a good night... Oops...I mean to the posts,past and future.
AND have a good night:)
5 cat mom... why are the people who pay every month the ones to have to take the hit for the people who can't pay their fees??? Is that fair?? I understand raising a fee due to certain circumstances however that is not right. And to top it off the people still get to live in the development...
Condoowner11Who would you have pay it? We are all responsible for the costs of operating the communities. We have to pay our bills. Unfortunately we are harmed by those who don't pay. Yup it's not fair. If the courts would speed up hearing cases........but there's another problem. It costs to have a lawyer do the paperwork, confirm what's owed and file a lien. And then it costs for an attorney to go to court representing the association. And costs more as the process moves along. Boards doing due diligence will do yearly budgets taking into account anticipated loses.
Weichert.com or the Weichert app will display the fees. It will show you all listings from all brands.
Donna Walling In my opinion, the HOAs should actually earn the fees they charge to the homeowners. We just moved from one to another and already I can tell how much better our old one was. They took care of the aesthetics of the community and enforced their own bylaws. The new one...doesn't appear that way. On top of that, they collected back fees and fines and late charges to the tune of $18k from the bank that owned the foreclosed home we eventually bought. It sat vacant for nearly 8 years and the association did nothing to maintain the property, or provide any service to warrant the fees. But they had no problem paying the attorneys fees to secure the liens.
Tracy We currently live in development with HOA fees. Mine are very low (I live outstate now) but when we purchased this house the previous owners owed several years of back dated fees, had violations, and owed legal fees. The money was taken off their side of the transaction but the stupid management company "forgot" to take it off our address and when we went to HOA meeting to get our community center/pool keys, we were told no because they still had lien against my address. What a pain in the butt that was to get that straightening out. It was fixed though. I can tell you that a lot of people just don't pay them (which is wrong) so our development had to raise our fees to install a higher end security system which only allows people with this key fobs to enter the pool. If you don't pay your HOA, it's turned off.
I don't know of anyplace you can find the HOA fees online though
Mommyof3 Tracy - if the bank owned the unit, they would have been responsible for any maintenance. The association collected what they were owed from the previous owner less legal fees. They do not come out ahead in these situations.
When foreclosed properties are sold all liens have to be satisfied - whether they are morgage, condo fees, or property taxes.
Hopefully they will maintain the common areas well for you.
Wow... you guys on this thread are being very helpful and giving me an education on things I wouldn't have even thought of! Thanks again everyone.
5catmom, I know all of that. My point was, they collected fees for doing essentially nothing. They also got fees from after Lis Pendens was filed, which is generally not allowed.
Fees that occur regardless of payment by every owner - that benefit the community:
management, maintenance, building exteriors, road maintenance, insurance, legal, any community amenities, landscaping, snow plowing, repairs, auditor, common utilities and more - I'm sure there are poorly run communities - fortunately I haven't lived in them. However I can tell you that very few people attend monthly board meetings. I got involved because I felt I had something to offer. In the second community I was asked to become involved because I had more knowledge of state requirements etc than current board members.
As a board member I felt a huge responsibility - fiduciary and otherwise and made sure to educate myself. As a board member I also found that many homeowners saw us as the enemy -when in fact we were fellow homeowners with as much invested in running things well as everyone else.
Yes, sallysimpson - educate yourself - every community is different.
My advice is when you find a place you are interested in talk to your future neighbors. I had always thought the HOA took care of the outside of a condo/townhome. We were surprised during the 5 years of ownership when every resident had to stain their own deck, paint their garage doors, paint the trim around their garage doors and basement windows, power wash their condo/townhome, etc. We had to buy the only approved stain and paints (which always seemed to be the most expensive) and show the HOA our purchase prior to staining/painting within the 3 week timeframe we were given. We are younger so we were able to do the work ourselves, luckily. But many of the residents were elderly and had to hire someone to do the work for them (pay out of their own pocket) if they didn’t have nice neighbors like us to help them out. If the ‘work’ wasn’t completed within the given (and unreasonable) timeframe the homeowner was fined every week past due. The funny thing is, our HOA fees continued to increase by at least $25/month & homeowners were handed more and more responsibilities. Needless to say we moved out as soon as we could & stayed far away from HOA. I realize not every association is like this but it’s looking into.
friendly advice 5 cat mom i understand what your saying, but i have papers to show you if you want that my house was taken by the association but they expect me to act as owner, it was not my choice to stop paying fees, i paid for 8 years and then 9/11 happened and well i worked in the building and my life became complicated. the place i lived never did any upgrade in 15 years no pool nothing, they had a nice low fee of 120 bucks when i bought the unit, and now its 274, they do that to get you in there and you know it. . In fact the vinzonni group built these condos and closed there doors as soon as last house was built, i think this is more common then you think, maybe yours were better cause you were on them and probably are a very honest person, i assure you thats rarely the case
I lived in a Condo for 6 years and just had to get out of there. It was nice and still is but the non payment is catching up to them now. The people on the board were up scale people. They were being advised by the management company. The management Company knew how much money they had and kept making obscene recommendations. The place was 10 years old and they were going to have road tared and stoned. I researched the original road, and it was built to highway specks and talked them out of it and saved 25 thousand. Another time the gas meters were under steps and rusting with decking on top. . It was like a closet. The tried all kinds ways to seal it up to stop leaks recommend by hired engineers. I looked at what the original architects were thinking. I told them the were defeating the original design. They had another engineer that recommended putting a stainless steel roof under decking for $100,000. They tried one and it didn't work. They finally put louvered doors as I recommended. They sent me a Thank You letter. I just could not live that way.
Old Gent Some of your comments speak to the importance of asking questions and reading the basic documents before your purchase so you know what expenses are yours vs association.
I'm sorry to hear the bad experience some of you have had .....
You are so right 5 catmom. I read the state rules. They are long. If you are not involved its your fault. Attend the meetings. All the power is with the association.
In my particular case the 'rules' changed after my purchase, when a new board came in. The one & only meeting I attended was one of the most outrageous things I've ever seen. It was appalling to see adults act this way. The residents could not speak without a male board member shouting "SHUT UP". There was actually a 'scuffle' and the police were also called. I am in no way suggesting every HOA is like this. But I wanted to state, in my case, rules changed after my purchase & attending HOA meetings isn't always the answer if the board will not allow you to speak. I do believe and hope my experience is 'special'. Like I said earlier, my suggestion is to talk to a couple of 'neighbors' and ask questions before your purchase.
house hunting house hunting - If you heard all the stories of what ever happened to people just after they bought a house you would never buy that either. You would never buy a car. Or get married. Or have kids. Or a pet. It's not all that bad, you just need to do research and weigh the choices.
friendly advice - That's definitely "special". :-( It may be a longer road, but I still say going to the meeting is the way out. Just that you then have all the people you need there to recruit who you want the new board to be. Clearly a board like that needs to be replaced and would be if everyone was there to see it.
GC or if anyone was willing to be on the board.............at my last place being on the board was a kind of lifetime sentence- no one was willing to give their time or be viewed as the "enemy" --- I had to move to get off the board..............lol
JrzyGirl88 What to do though if there are a number of homeowners in default on their monthly fee? And the total default amount grows and grows? The budget suffers and repairs are not done in a timely manner.
Life has different strokes for different folks. It's is a matter of what your needs are, and what you are willing to deal with. In my case, I never moved to anything bigger than I needed to start with. First we had an Apt. for four years. Our first house was two bedroom with having one child. Six years later another came along. Since we liked the neighborhood, I added a bedroom and dining room. After 38 years moved to Condo. Six years later back to a house. Since I buried a wife and lastly, a child I am back in an Apt. I just go with the flow and Praise the Lord.
Jrzygirl. My deep and abiding promise to myself............NO more boards. 18 years on 2 boards. Enough. And I have very few if any complaints.
One other thing. The wife and I both grew up in a colonial house and agreed to only having a one floor house. That's all we ever had.
Old Gent...A ranch is what I really want. Just hard to find anymore. Most homes need a ton of work...people move out and leave homes in really disgusting shape. It's sad.
My house in Westfield had a lot of Ranches in the area. Now they are tearing them down and building Mc Mansions. I bet the buyers are all environmentalist too.
Bumping this thread instead of starting a new one, didn't really see what I was looking for anywhere else.
My husband and I will be starting the process to become homeowners in the next two years (but too far off to be contacting realtors and wasting their time). As much as we would like a single family home, we both work too much to worry about exterior maintenance and lawn care, so we're planning on a small townhouse in Hackettstown borders.
The HOA dues will impact our budget, so we've been trying to get an idea of what to expect from the different complexes. If any residents of the following areas mind sharing their HOA cost, it'd be greatly appreciated:
Panther Valley (no idea if fees vary by the section, but we've mainly liked Osprey and Wood Duck/others by back gate)
Oak Hill
Peachtree
The Brook Dr ones off of Main, near East Baldwin
West Valley View/Canal Way
Hastings
Thanks in advance :)
Prospective Buyer Hastings Square is $220 for the townhomes. Includes garbage, pool fees, lawn maintenance and snow removal. Does not include any household maintenance.
Panther Valley fees very greatly - homes are probably the lowest because house owners are responsible for their own landscaping - roofs - etc - all exterior work -
Within condos - townhouses it varies based on size of the home and other factors - I"m in village 3 - 342 a month - and well worth it to me - covers all exterior maintenance - including roofs, siding, periodic powerwashing and painting of decks, snow plowing and shoveling of roads, driveways, and walks- pool maintenance, road work, security (which works well for me) and more.............You can ask the office what the fees are where you are looking..............I've lived in two other condo/townhouse communities and I find the monthly fees very much in line - and the scheduling of large maintenance items excellent.........
We're in Peachtree, 370 month covers all exterior maintenance, pool, garbage, etc.
Not sure if it matters, but we chose Peachtree because the kids go to Cuccinella in Long Valley. I believe Hastings goes to Flocktown in LV...not sure about the rest.
JWolfe75 Peachtree is $370 a month. Includes all exterior maintenance, landscaping, snow removal, garbage removal, pool/playground/courts, and road maintenance (we have private roads). Those with fireplaces have to inspect at their own cost and provide the certificate to the association, I think bi-yearly? It could be yearly. I don't have a fireplace so I don't know.
Aquarius usual on fireplace inspection is every two years - and some require dryer hose to be cleaned out - makes sense - no?
Geez... for $250 - $370/month you could still buy a single family home and just hire a contractor if/when you need something repaired, and pocket the extra $3K+ each year.
Also, nobody would be able to complain that your mailbox is the wrong shade of white.
Mark Mc. Go to the MLS - gsmls.com and do a search on Allamuchy, Hackettstown, and Washington Tsp. When you click on one of the properties, it will tell you the Association Fees as one of the items.
West Valley View condo fees are $255 a quarter ($85 a month). It covers lawn care and snow removal from parking lots. They also paint garage and front doors every other year, along with resealing parking lots and driveways. I guess they maintain the small playground, along with the tennis courts and basketball courts.
Mr. Resident Nope, no way I could hire an army to clear my driveway, walkway, mow the grass, rake the leaves, repair the roof, maintain my porches, paint the exterior, pave the driveway, trim the trees, clear the planting beds, clean the pool, etc., etc., for what I pay, let alone have any left over. And it is an army that shows up to do these things.
And no one complains about the mail boxes. We don't buy those ourselves either.
Love your comment Aquarius! I agree! I live in Warren Village. I think exactly like you!
Just Saying.... Thank you so much everyone! Super helpful. That being said, holy moly HOAs are insane! Looks like we're revisiting the single family home idea, sigh... Wish there were more small single homes out there, seems like all anyone wants is big, bigger, biggest anymore!
Prospective Buyer - HOAs are insane. Carefully read the fine print and you may be alarmed enough to stay away from these scams. Remember that song from "The Wiz": "You can't win, you can't break even, and you can't get out of the game." I can say this, now trying the third option.
DannyC In my 3rd HOA development over 27 years............have yet to see a scam.....or find anything in large or fine print that worried me............in my experience on two boards, homeowners go nuts when fees are increased - than they NEVER have an understanding of budget, requirements etc............and they only show up at board meetings if there is concern about fees............and btw I have sold 2 condos and a town home without any problem - except one time when the market had tanked everywhere.............
4catmom - I agree. I'm involved in an HOA in PA. There are about 25 units, and absolutely everyone shows at every meeting. Everyone is the community, and vote is done by the whole group not just officers doing things. If an HOA isn't working, the solution is to change it from the inside, not the outside.
Prospective Buyer - Is it really so insane, or just more $ than you expected. As Aquarius pointed out, it takes good $ to perform all of those services. It's a good $150/mo just for lawn or snow depending on the season. Landscaping/tree trimming another $25/mo. Add stuff like periodic power washing, paint, drive way sealing, easy $25/mo more. If you have $6000 for roofing and other repairs every 5 years, that's $1200 a year and another $100/mo. That doesn't even get into something like pools, tennis courts, etc. It adds up quick. And you're not going to escape that in single family homes. You either have to have your own equipment, do your own labor instead of other things, and still need $ set aside for repairs. It's not really cheaper, just a different way of doing it. There is an awful lot of home inventory right now, if you can't find something the right size, maybe it's the agent trying to over sell.
I wouldn't call HOA's a scam, I just prefer to be more in control of when/how much to spend on property maintenance without the risk of additional unexpected assessments and/or liens against the property should the HOA decide there's some violation or increase in rates.
The HOA's "power" over the property, to me, is a deal-killer for buying a home in a development.
4catmom - Any of your successful sales been in Panther Valley? Here are useless, expensive gates, high association fees and lousy maintenance. Can't even get a broken front door fixed, but told that I cannot do it myself because it is "public area". Tough to sell this property because many people are more aware of the PVPOA than I was when I moved in. If you know something that I do not, or can help me get necessary repairs done, please let me know. Thanks.
No Danny - I bought in PV 3 1/2 years ago because I fell in love with the complex. In fact I paid over asking since there was already another bid. And I feel like I got a real bang for my bucks.............beautiful place, friendly neighbors, quiet, beautiful outdoors...........and I have nothing but good to say about the responses to any maintenance questions or requests. A friend moved in just before I did and he has had the same experience.
There is a clear list available delineating who is responsible for each kind of repair/replacement.
Work orders are available online ......
4catmom - Submitted two work orders for the broken front door three months ago...no response yet. Many other maintenance problems are unresolved. Glad you love this compound, and maybe you have another friend who may be interested in the property. Neighbors are friendly, quiet, great outdoors, especially since I planted a beautiful rock, perennial flower and herb garden last year. In the Crest area. PM me and I'll put you in touch with my realtor. Really don't want to leave, but fed up with the PVPOA, and the ARS drug rehab debate is the final straw for me. If you don't care about this issue, or support the ARS proposal, then it is perfect for you and your friends.
I live in Hasting Square. We pay $250 in HOA Fees monthly. But, I had to pay $200 more to cover additional snow plowing charges from last year. The $250 covers landscaping, pool & trash pick up.(They do pick ups 3 times per week). We are responsible for maintaining everything else. Also, be aware that they do very little work. So, you will still need to to do some upkeep and its almost impossible to get any maintenance or landscape request approved. I
Gigi1990 Commenting is no longer available.