Price to line a chimney and other options
I am considering getting my chimney lined to convert my current oil burner to gas. I have received one quote ($1400), and am waiting on a second quote from luna chimney sweeps, (they rough estimated $1800). My chimney is about 20 feet long, and I need a 5 inch - 5 1/2 inch liner considering my btu input. My chimney is straight and as clear cut of a job as it could be.
From experience what do you think I am looking at for cost, and is it even worth it, or should I just take the ~$1500 (chimney), and the $1800 (conversion) and put it towards a new gas direct vent boiler with the money saved?
My current boiler is 117,000 btu.
Darrin Darrin,
If you are comfortable with the heights involved and are at all handy you could probably do it yourself. The conversion burners run around $700.00 and are almost "Plug and Play" if your gas line is close.
Liners can be bought online here:
http://www.woodlanddirect.com/Chimney/Chimney-Liners?gclid=Cj0KEQjwpM2pBRChsZCzm_CU0t4BEiQAxDVFmh-OUpbtElcHFy2PQcFhRBIDqcJu_cDG_r7SNzCZDR0aAn4T8P8HAQ
An aluminum 5" liner kit 25' long will only run about $115.00, a burner will run $500-650.00 depending on make and model needed.
I did mine last year (including running gas throughout my house - given the heating year we had, I pretty much realized my entire payback period already - and I never once had to call for oil! So glad I finally converted after years of considering it.
kurt kurt, I can totally do it myself, and have no issues in doing that, if it were not for the permits required seem like a PITA, and the chimney needs to be certified, I am not sure if I would have any issues getting "someone elses (my)" work certified when it comes to the chimney. Did you line your chimney and have someone certify it?
The boiler conversion kit runs just under $500 for my particular model, but it needs to be setup, gas flow and air flow to operate efficiently, this is stuff, that for me, at the cost of 1000 to install,seems to be worth paying someone to have it done right, and not having to deal with the town when it comes to permits and certifications.
Also I currently do not have any gas lines in the house, they just ran it from the street in the fall.
Put the Liner and conversion burner aside, and go the Powered Direct Vent.
100% better right from the start....
Embryodad I would make the decision somewhat based on the age and condition of your boiler itself. If it has several good years left in it, just convert it. A high efficiency unit does have a better payback, but your initial outlay will certainly be higher and will also be a larger project than just a simple conversion.
As far as certifying the chimney - it should not be required as long as you are re-lining it. As a home owner, you can re-line your own chimney. Also, I believe you only need to certify it if you are NOT using a liner - you need to prove that it is structurally sound for it's length and not susceptible to exhaust infiltration.
As far as gas lines - it is another element, but not too difficult to either run the black pipe yourself, or if you push hard I believe you can get Depot or Lowe's to sell you the yellow flex pipe which eliminates the need to install most fittings.
As far as burner setup they are largely set from the factory - you may need to drill the orifice to adjust the default BTU ratings (easy to do). As far as any gas/air flow mixtures, you might be able to check with your boiler cleaning guy and see if he could make any adjustments needed when he comes to do a final cleaning of the boiler.
As far as dealing with permits - they are what they are, but most inspectors and building departments are a lot less scary than you think if you just go in and talk to them about the process and any documents they may need.
If you are uncertain about any part of the process it is best to play it safe - there is gas involved after all! But as far as a DIY project, it is not too bad.
There are, obviously, many factors involved. About two years ago, I had my home converted to gas, with a new furnace, water heater, and A/C unit installed, by Matt Musum Plumbing and Heating, so I'm somewhat familiar with the process.
1. The permit was fairly expensive (in Mount Olive), as it required general construction, plumbing, electrical, and fire-safety inspections.
2. I didn't need to install a chimney liner, as my chimney was in good enough shape. Just because you're converting from oil to gas doesn't necessarily mean you MUST install a chimney liner.
3. I'm sure some people like those chimney-free furnace blowers, but I know two people who have them, and they hate them--both are looking into installing stovepipes. The reason? The blowers are LOUD. Keep that in mind, if you decide to go with one.
4. Whether you should get a furnace conversion kit or a whole new furnace depends on your existing unit--it's age, the availability of a conversion kit (and its cost), and the ease of installing the kit, vs. a whole new furnace. Ultimately, a new unit will likely be more efficient, so if the cost is similar, replace the whole thing. You can probably find a scrap-metal guy to take the old unit for free (as I did).
5. I converted the whole house to gas--furnace, water heater, stove, and clothes dryer, which is much more efficient. Even if, for example, you have a new electric stove, one day, it will need to be replaced, and having the gas hook-up already in place is convenient (and can raise the value of the house). I wouldn't have run the pipes, myself, even though I renovate homes for a living. My plumber came with several lengths of pipe and a pipe threader and did the whole thing in a day. There are codes which dictate the sizes of the pipes, and where and how they can be run. Also, you have to run the line outside to the new gas meter yourself--the gas company only brings the gas lines to the meter.
Hope that helps. I don't know how busy he is, these days, but you can always call Matt Musum and ask for his opinions and a price quote (973-879-1692)--He's a real nice guy and easy to work with, and he's less expensive that many of the other local companies.
JerseyWolf I can't see the advantage of power venting, seems like yet another thing to break. I am an advocate of direct vent; however, after the past two snow years, I might be sure the intake is 5 feet up from the ground :>(
I went higher efficiency oil replacement boiler and had a 40 year old aluminum lined flu. Did not replace lining but the new furnace's efficiency put gases out that corroded the flu which was not at spec to the new designs. Used Luna and job was immaculate.
Sure I could have done it myself, but with older lined flu's the potential exists to rip apart the lining as it unravels as you pull in out. Not to mention being a little unsure as to the type of packing used around the flu and would it easily break up. Did not want to be in those situations inexperienced since my boiler runs the hot water too so kinda like to have it operational year round.
Depending on your boiler, not sure about the DIY. Mine was certainly not a simple slide-out, slide-in. Also got an outside sensor to adjust boiler temp's and run times due to outside temperature that seems to advantage the system.
mistergoogle Kurt, I really appreciate the words of advice. Just some further info, my current boiler is a cast iron utica, and is about 10 years old. But I only use ~210 gallons of oil per YEAR, so the use on it is probably 1/3 of most other boilers of similar age.
Like I said, I have no problem with the piping, the leak testing, or installation, I am very sure I could figure it out, I have never paid anyone to install anything, my whole life, (except when home deopt had the 100 dollar carpet install deal) lol I have also always done all my own boiler cleanings.
I have done my research with this conversion kit, you drill the orface tube for required btu, but setting up the air flow could be tricky, as it is usually done with a meter in the draft damper to measure your exhaust.
The thing that shys me away with the town is that when I first bought my house, I wanted to convert a old rotten screen porch on the side of the house to a covered porch. They required a sketch of what you wanted to do. Upon our sketch being "not good enough" over three times, we were told we should go to a architect.....we were charged $1400 for this service, something that we had already drawn, but for whatever reason, the inspector didn't "like" our drawings.
I have been dealing with Ron Dill of repair champ, and he has been very flexible with if there is work I want to do, or work I want him to do, but I highly doubt he would fill the permits out for me to do all the work under his name, lol. I did get all the paper work for the permits I need, just have not attempts to fill them out.
I also reached out to the town again with the question about certification and lining. I was under the impression that you have to get the chimney inspected regardless.
FYI: in seeing your last post, I hope you are going for replacement for other reasons beyond financial. And I hope you are talking natural gas and not propane. I would think at your usage, the breakeven for a new unit would be over a decade even with the higher efficiency and lower price for natural gas.
Can't speak to certifications, but inspections are required and are basic flashlight visual inspections. Frankly I like the concept of inspection but am almost always disappointed in what you get.
If you are getting rid of the oil tank, that will need an inspection also and may call for leaving the tank outside, with a hole cut into it for the inspector to stick their flashlight in. Just FYI.
Yeah I know my oil usage is practically nothing. The main reason I am converting is we plan on eventually moving and renting this home. I do not want to worry about a tenant running the house out of oil during the winter as I am pretty sure they wont be as conservative as I am. One of the reasons I go through so little oil is I am very conservative with the heat. I use a space heater on nights that are not too cold, only run the heat from the end of November until the beginning of April (depending). I keep the house 66 when we are home and awake, and 60 at night and when we are gone. I have a wifi thermostat, and I always am on top of turning the heat down when we leave, or if we will not be home when we thought. If I convert my electric hot water heater as well, and I already have a gas oven to go in, my payoff should be around 5 - 6 years based on current rates.
I figured all savings in electric and oil would net me approx $800 a year savings, so for me, that's my currently annual heating bill. So in 5-6 years my savings should be $4000 - $4800, which is around what my current conversion should cost me, obviously the payout will occur sooner if I do my own work.
The oil tank is just as new as the boiler, and is above ground, I plan on selling it or reusing it on another property, so no holes will be cut.
I laughed when I saw your response since I was going to say: at those oil use rates, you need a bigger house! Heh, heh.
My next water heater will be a hybrid, basically running off a heat pump. Probably wouldn't use it for renters though and it has a healthy break even too. Has some interesting exhaust venting options too since it expels cold air.
Yeah I know mg, My house is just under 900 sqft, my garage is over 1000 sqft.....that's why I bought this house lol. I bought what I could afford when I was 23, and IMO buying was a better option, and cheaper, then renting since I have good credit
Also the construction department responded, you need a permit to do the chimney liner, and would still need the chimney certification, so I am sure I could do it myself, it's just that what company would certify a liner I put in? I would think they would want to put the liner in, but I have not asked.
put the money towards a high efficiency boiler or furnace and they will vent thru the wall with pvc
HDW Nail in the coffin for my chimney, Luna chimney sweeps came back with a price of $1900......crazy expensive! The liner on the site that was posted is only $500, $800 if you get the insulation kit. My chimney is 20 foot, single story, and straight as a arrow. For that price I can just about buy a brand new direct vent boiler, and then be eligible for $1400 in high efficiency rebates.
My home needs a chimney liner and the company that gave us a price is out of business now. Can anyone suggest a good company to install a chimney liner?
ggirl I got a quote through luna chimney sweeps, they came in at $1900 for a 17 foot straight as a arrow chimney, thought it was outrageous being I could get the complete liner kit myself for under $700 and it shouldent take longer then 2 hours with two guys
Adirondack Chimney
Mark Schumann
908-750-4029
Great price and great work to my house. As I am not able to do it myself.
Donna If you do it yourself and have a fire, problem, etc. etc., your Insurance will not pay if it was installed improperly and was not inspected.
Nature Lover Not true, to do a chimney liner, you need to have the chimney certified by a professional afterwards.
Commenting is no longer available.