Taxpayer Abuse (Israel Missle Defense Funding)
Endless money for the Israelis while US taxpayers are struggling.
This is complete BS:
http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/04/politics/israel-missile-defense-funding-congress-pentagon/
iJay If you are worried about foreign aid, iJay, I should think you would be more concerned about Afghanistan than Israel.
Rebecka True, but we invaded them as with Iraq and caused a lot of havoc/damage so we can't walk away. Israel is another story...
I'm all for cuts in foreign aid while we have financial issues in out *own* country. Let's get our own ducks in a row before we help anyone else.
The_Bishop Careful iJay. You may get labeled as anti-Semitic for questioning any allegiance to Israel.
I don't have an issue with foreign aid when it aids US interests. The U.S.'s responsibility to Afghanistan goes all the way back to the Afghan-Soviet war. We left that country with no government and that led to things as they are today.
Before Afghanistan and Iraq, the top two countries to receive aid were Israel (#2) and Egypt (#3). Both are worthless to the U.S. IMO.
emaxxman and yet the right wing will have you believe welfare abuse is the bigger problem! smh
brown bear"Pay for Peace"... we would not give a dime to Egypt other than because of Israel.
I am going to create a new country in the Gulf Of Mexico by filling in 5 foot water. It will be colonized by free thinking people. We will have a strong lobby presence in DC to make sure all of our problems are taken care of via US taxpayers...
To me one major issue with "Foreign Aid" used for military purposes is that it's effectively defense budget dollars that we take "off the books' as defense spending.
In other words, we give defense dollars to Israel (and others) obstentively to militarily protect us. But we call it Foreign Aid which means it does not count as part of the U.S. defense budget.
When you start adding in all these non-defense budget, defense expenditures, our military budget gets even larger than the crazy level we can track.
I think the American people deserve to know exactly how much we spend to police the world and protect ourselves in total.
mistergoogle I would certainly rather give money to our long- time allies and the only democratic nation in the area. If we can spend millions on ILLEGALS, who only suck the life out of the long time American workers, we should certainly spend money on allies that would actually help US if the chips were down.
sientje smith Happy to fund Israel's missiles. They are the US only allies in the world.
I've seen iJay's anti-jewish rants. Goes farther than Israel. I might not always agree with Israeli tactics but iJay uses this forum as a way to further his/her hatred.
Would love to know what your ancestry is "ijay". I'm sure it's really something to be proud of.
LM Note that I am not necessarily against helping Israel defend itself: I do think that is not only a moral thing to do but protects US interests at home as well. However, given Israel's GDP/debt ratio versus ours (67.4 vs 101.53), one might ask them to give us a break for a bit or take a low-interest loan from us.
Did Israel withhold 9/11 intel? Fact or conspiracy theory?
What I object to is hiding defense dollars under the mantel of foreign aid for accounting purposes thus not allowing the American public to "account" for all the dollars we spend domestically and internationally on defense. It's the defense industry's way of lobbying for extra expenditures for araments outside of the defense budget which hides the total defense bill from the US public.
jd2 the anti-semitism in this thread is alarming, just like Obama's anti-semtisim
democrats around the country are becoming more anti-semitic in their approach to the Jewish people every day, not sure why that is . . . . . .
BrotherDog Name one instance of anti-Semitism in this thread, BD... there aren't any, which would probably put it about par with the number of actual instances of anti-Semitism that you can attribute to Obama as well.
ianimal Total BS assessment from a repeated fear-monger. I guess BD must have recently made some Jewish friends that he now feels the need to defend.
I don't support Israel's actions of late. I don't support Jewish settlers constantly building homes on land that the international community and the government of Israel has agreed does not belong to the Jewish people. I don't support giving Israel billions each year and then hearing them criticize the U.S. for acting in its own best interest. If Mexico did that, conservatives would be calling for the President to deport every Mexican in sight.
Unfortunately, it is what it is and it's time to accept the fact that Jews and Palestinians need their own sovereign countries (and for the U.S. to stop propping up governments everywhere.)
And this antisemite has a Jewish brother-in-law (who he has been friends with since the first day of college 24 years ago and made that Jew his best man.)
Time to stop smoking whatever you're smoking and realize you're full of crap.
I have a Jewish friend.........
One thing for certain is BD is not Jewish, he just hates liberals so much he is befriending Israel.
But you have to ask yourself; how smart can these people be if they only put 7 hot dogs in a single package? And how pompous to sell said dogs by crappin on Uncle Sam while claiming they answer to God?
"earliest television advertisements, created by Scali, McCabe, Sloves in 1972, featured Uncle Sam preparing to consume a hot dog that includes the additives and fillers permitted under federal regulations, while an ethereal narrator states that Hebrew National can't, panning up to the heavens and stating because "we answer to a higher authority"" WIKI
Who's anti-American now --- using hot dogs against us and leaving us holding an empty roll.
(sarcasm alert)
emaxx ; who called you an anti-semite?
ian; you need to reevaluate your position, look again, it's there,
Gave examples yesterday, you may not agree, but in my view they are ant semtic and i am not the only one saying so
ian,
Of course it's there. A conspiracy theory was listed above about Israel not helping with 9/11 intel. I think it's pretty well documented that Israel and the US are always helping each other out with Intel. I am sure 9/11 was no different.
Rather than list the truth of certain populations celebrating 9/11 by passing out candy, the op mentioned a conspiracy theory that we can all probably agree is BS.
Conspiracy theories against people that are obviously false and irrational focus on an ethnic or racial group is undeniably bigotry.
Do you think it's correct that the op said Israel did not help with 9/11? What do you think motivated him/her? Do you agree with it?
I think it's a little past the line of objective or even innocent subjective comment.
TM
Troublemaker I'll point out the anti-Semitism - the 9/11accusation for one is ubsubstantiated BS. Just another instance of Jew bashing by ijay, all from "googling" any website that is full of jew haters. And as for someone's best friend being Jewish, it's kind of like: "I have black friends so I'm not a racist" excuse.
I don't think everyone on this thread is an anti-Semite but I believe without question ijay is, his history of posts and this thread are glaring examples!
Saying Israel had intelligence regarding 9/11 is anti-Semitic? Hell, our own CIA had intelligence that was ignored. Does pointing that out make someone anti-American?
How about pointing out that Israel is one of the top espionage threats against our government? Are the NSA all just a bunch of anti-Semites as well? Newsweek broke the story years ago. Are they Jew haters too?
Or is it possible to not have any animosity toward Jewish people whatsoever and still be able to call out Israel on the many underhanded things that they do on a regular basis?
"I have black friends so I'm not a racist" excuse. --- It doesn't mean you're NOT a racist but the extent of that friendship may mean you're not anti-black.
That was quite a heated response to my reply ianimal. Hmmmm Underhanded...
Would you use that word about any other country? Is Syria underhanded? ISIS Caliphate? Russia? Do you have an underhanded country list? Interesting to think about....
Maybe I am just reading your posts weirdly. I don't know why you would be so driven to react like that.
Regardless of what you say about espionage threats and NSA and such, I have heard speeches from presidents, generals, etc all saying how Israel is one of the greatest allies. Do you think they are just making it up? Is that possible in your mind? More conspiracy theories? Israel (jews?) bought them off?
Anyway, you are saying the CIA had intel and they ignored it. The intel you are talking about was before 9/11. Maybe I was reading ijay's post wrong but I read it to mean intel provided after 9/11. This is his post: "Protect us? Like watching 9-11 and not assisting us with intel..." I read it to mean not assisting us with intel after 9/11. I don't know if that was the intent. I was replying to what I understood him to say that the US had 9/11 and afterward Israel REFUSED to help with solving 9/11. One of us is interpreting that statement before and the other after. Don't get in a tizzy..
Of course you can criticize Israel. Or funding to Israel of equipment etc. But when someone posts like ijay and accuses Israel of this or that, you have to wonder why. What if France were on the top of that list? Would that make him (or you?) so angry? What if Egypt was #1 and Israel #2 instead of vice versa? From his posts in this thread, and to a degree yours, it seems all about Israel. If the answer is Israel = Bad, France = Good or Egypt = Good, it quacks like a duck, smells like a duck and I'm going to say walks like David Duke, err I mean a duck.
TM
With reference to "iJay" he makes everything anti-Jewish. He turned the thread about the muslim attacks in France into an anti-Jewish rant. He clearly has an agenda. Maybe I'm not the only one who sees this. Maybe a bunch of you birds flock together.
And by the way, Newsweek (and Time) have a history of being both anti-Israel and anti-Jewish.
Actually, Troublemaker... my response had nothing to do with your post. I didn't see your post until just now. I was responding to LM. Any hostility you interpret from me to you doesn't exist.
LM, I personally don't recall iJay saying anything overtly anti-Semitic (i.e. anti-Jewish), although he is pretty consistently and strongly anti-Israel. They aren't necessarily the same thing. There are many people out there who like to use the anti-Semite card on anyone who dares criticize Israel for anything.
Troublemaker, there are no underhanded countries, only underhanded actions. Our government does underhanded things quite often, such as the whole cellphone spying on our allies brouhaha. I would definitely classify that as underhanded, just as Israel spying on us, supposedly one of their closest allies, is underhanded.
ianimal,
Do you think the US spies on any of its closest allies?
I don't think that spying is necessarily a negative. Something like Keep your enemies close and your friends closer. Every country has a need to know what every other country is up to and I would say there is a lot of spying going on between allies as well as enemies.
TM
"democrats around the country are becoming more anti-Semitic in their approach to the Jewish people every day, not sure why that is . . . . . ."
This kind of comment is just so bizarre, you can't even respond to it.
Next topic. Regarding someone who is anti-Israel, yes, that does not necessarily mean that person is anti-Semitic. Still, the pattern of ijay's posts make me uneasy about him on this score.
Israel as a country is a special case in a bunch of ways - too detailed to get into here (I'm kind of lazy). One can admire it, the historical longing for it by the Jewish people, the way it was created, the successes it has had. One can also abhor what has happened to Palestinians, and how Israel continues, slowly but steadily, to make Palestine a more and more difficult place for them to live.
There are irreconcilable differences here under which, I have come to conclude, the words "right" and "wrong" have no meaning.
liberal democrats call for the elimination of Israel:
CODE PINK Leads Genocidal Chants Against Israel At #AIPAC2015
“From the river to the sea Palestine will be free”
“Judaism Yes. Zionism no! The state of Israel’s got to go!”
“Hitleryahu you will see, Palestine will be free”
http://www.progressivestoday.com/shock-video-code-pink-leads-genocidal-chants-against-israel-at-aipac2015/
code pink is anti-semitic, code pink is comprised of progressives who are liberal democrats
as i said, there is an increasing anti-semitism displayed by liberal democrats, not sure why this is happening right now,
there are more examples, time to re-evaluate this issue.
Criticize Israel or those who support Israel and you are labelled an anti-semite. This is complete bullsh$t. I have Jewish friends and even relatives who are 50% Jewish. For the record none of them agree with what Israel has done. Instead of trying to integrate with Palestine they used terrorist tactics to create Israel. What they did was wrong period. Just like what the white man did to the native indians in this great country. Time heals but with the Muslims it probably will take hundreds of years if ever...
In the past I have disagreed with iJay on a number of topics, but find myself agreeing with the general premise of his argument.
First off, I am speaking about the nation of Israel, and not people who follow Judaism. Just as all Catholics are not citizens of Vatican City, all Jews are not Israelis.
People are quick to say "Israel is an ally" but what I see is a one-sided relationship. The United Kingdom is an ally; we came to their aid in WWII and they have supported our efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan (whether you agree or not with US policy) with their troops. The US-UK relationship has been a two-way street for many many years. Our "alliance" with the State of Israel has been more one-way with the US providing billions of dollars and our "ally" providing very little physical and concrete in return.
IN 1939 after Germany marched in Poland, the Nazis confined the Jews in Warsaw to a specific geographical area, and the Nazis restricted the supply of food and medicine, and the free movement of the people. Is this act of restricting a people based on their religion so different from what is Israel's policy on restricting the free movement of the Palestinian people?
And before everyone reminds me of the Holocaust and the systematic extermination of millions of people, predominantly Jews, that was an abomination, period; no argument there. But the "Final Solution" was a policy across all of Germany and the countries that were occupied, and is separate from what happened in Warsaw.
The point is, like iJay, I can separate the State of Israel from the Jewish people, and my disagreement with that nation's policies and the US pouring billions of dollars every year into our "ally" does NOT make me, or anyone else who disagrees, anti-Semitic.
JerryG Jerry: I don't know but I would guess "People are quick to say "Israel is an ally" but what I see is a one-sided relationship." is not quite true since I am pretty sure we get a lot of intelligence, etc. from Israel. As far as physical support, not sure we want to insert Israeli's into our Middle East efforts.
Also, it is very hard to separate religion from state in regards to Israel and I would guess most non Isreali Jews think of Israel as theirs. There is no separation of church and state which is true in much of the Middle East.
BrotherDog continues to be off the reservation:
"liberal democrats call for the elimination of Israel: "CODE PINK Leads Genocidal Chants Against Israel At #AIPAC2015.......code pink is comprised of progressives who are liberal democrats"
Code Pink, a very liberal, small NGO comprised mostly of women with decreasing memmbership due to recent stands does not speak for or represent the Democratic party. Whether most members are Democrats or not --- is unknown.
Keep barking at the moon BrotherDog.
Iman: I agree not anti-semetic, but have you checked for cruelty to animals?
Not all Jews support Israel. Besides the more moderate and IMHO integrated into this country see for example:
http://www.nkusa.org/AboutUs/Zionism/opposition.cfm
Of course it is one-sided. It makes sense. Israel is trying to do something the entire world is against except for the USA (and do not blame anti-semitism). So they behave in survival-mode, not caring about right or wrong but that their survival is right (at all costs...).
My problem with all of this:
1) US Taxpayer money being misdirected (wasted)
2) US soldiers injured/killed
3) Further exposes US to terrorism due to our support for Israel ((9-11, etc.)
4) Israel has 100-200 nukes and they refuse to sign the nuclear nonproliferation treaty (they don't even officially acknowledge)
I have a really hard time justifying the US sending billions of dollars overseas (to many countries, not just Israel) while we have entire families homeless in this country and millions of people going to bed hungry.
What is so wrong with (like the rest of the world) taking care of our own people first?
@ Jerry G - "Is this act of restricting a people based on their religion so different from what is Israel's policy on restricting the free movement of the Palestinian people?"
There is the HUGEST difference. In Germany, the jewish population was not trying to annihilate Germany. They were not blowing themselves up in German restaurants. They were not lobbing rockets indiscriminately. They were not building tunnels next to German kindergartens to terrorize the population, kill etc. They were confined to ghettos and exterminated for no other reason than they were jewish. You know there is not one single Israeli soldier left in Gaza. Not one jew either. When Israel left Gaza, Hamas blew up all the irrigation and farming systems that were left by the settlers. More of an irrational religious principle than saving their people. Look what happened to Gaza. It is a constant threat to Israel. Why would Gaza constantly start these skirmishes/wars? They know that they will not win. They, like Hizballah and others can keep attacking Israel because the world doesn't see that as though similar attacks were happening against their own countries. Huge mistake. Anyway, I guess my point is all these restrictions and walls are to stop Gaza from doing the aggressive, hostile things they have done every few years, sometimes in the past every few weeks.
With regard to one way relationships, are you someone who thinks the Israeli Mossad is so knowledgable and so permated in various countries? If so, why would it be a one way relationship with the US? Not to mention, Israel shares its agricultural developments with much of Africa and other areas. I forget which country but maybe Kenya's Prime Minister thanks Israel for their help. Israel always offers help like to Turkey when there are earthquakes, Haiti etc.
@ijay -
1) US Taxpayer money being misdirected (wasted) - I'm not going to talk about wasted versus not, you think it's wasted, that's your opinion. I just wonder how hostile you are to the other "wastes"? Are you generally someone who wants to cut waste or have you honed in on an issue/country that you have found your one and only "waste" cause?
2) US soldiers injured/killed - US soldiers have been injured or killed in Israel or Gaza/West Bank in the last 20 years? Please cite 2 examples. I track these things pretty well and I cant think of one.
3) Further exposes US to terrorism due to our support for Israel ((9-11, etc.) - Do you think most of these groups are against us because of our support for Israel? Muhahahhahahah Maybe it is a recruiting tool for one group or another but I guarantee if there were no Israel, and you were airlifted to Raqqa, Syria, you would be grotesquely killed in about 10 seconds. With no Israel, what do you think Iran/Hezzbollah would do? All these Death to America and mock destruction of US carrier ships and all that, do you think they would just relax and control their corner of the world? Militant religion is about world domination. You are doing avoidance of US terrorism at best a small delay with this one.
4) Israel has 100-200 nukes and they refuse to sign the nuclear nonproliferation treaty (they don't even officially acknowledge) - So, Iran has signed the treaty and has shown many times that they have secretive programs, and in your mid that is ok? But a country that hasn't signed something in some way is tied to that document? That sounds a little pazzo you know? That is like you not signing the mortgage on my house but me insisting you pay.
ijay, why are you so focused on Israel? How do you feel about Russia who is creating a proxy war, hostile to the US, took over Crimea and kind of Eastern Ukraine? How do you feel about Iran who is aggressive not just with Israel and the Middle East but their neighbors. Google "Faisal Abbas Netanyahu". You should see the editor of Al Arabiya article who hates Netanyahu but somehow he agrees with him on Iran.
Anyway enough rambling by me.
Curious to your motivations
TM
code pink is anti-semitic by calling for the elimination of Israel,
code pink is a liberally progressive group, who are wackadoddle lefties, of course they are aligned with the democratic party. no way they are republicans . . . . .
bt, as the nyt's reported on 1/15; President Obama used a familiar anti-semitic comment when dressing down senator menendez, see the link above for more details
this president is anti-semitic, and many of his supporters are following his lead, like code pink continues to do.
According to a report from the BBC, figures compiled by the United Nations stated that:
"Between 8 July and 27 August, more than 2,100 Palestinians were killed in the Gaza Strip, along with 66 Israeli soldiers and seven civilians in Israel.
"The UN says the vast majority of Palestinian deaths are civilian....The UN says at least 2,104 Palestinian died, including 1,462 civilians, of whom 495 were children and 253 women....Israel also suffered casualties in the operation - 66 Israeli military personnel died, while six Israeli civilians and a Thai national were killed by rockets and mortars fired from Gaza."
Here's the link to the complete article: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28439404
I don't care what the motivation, I can see no reason to target areas where women and children have congregated. Throughout the history of armed conflict, one side or another has tried to protect their bases of operation by surrounding them by a civilian population, and their opponents have frequently stayed on the moral high ground and not taken actions that would result in inflicting civilian casualties.
I'm not excusing actions by radical Palestinians and find acts of terrorism such as suicide bombings morally abhorrent. But if you want to throw around the charge that Palestine is trying to annihilate Israel you must also consider that, by their recent actions, Israel is also trying to annihilate the Palestinian people.
Or do you consider almost 500 children killed in less than two months somehow justified?
I guess you think it's just fine and dandy for the terrorists to rocket and use suicide bombers completely at will against Israel then???? War is hell, period......
5catmom @Jerry - Here is what I consider - Thousands of children in Syria were killed and are still being killed by their government and others - and people - maybe you, ignore that. And then the charge will be that I am trying to deflect when I am not. I just dont understand your, and especially ijays moral filter. Who is watching for those kids? I will tell you that Israel has treated many Syrian civilian casualties of their war, for free. Gratis. They have nothing to do with that war. They are not doing it just for PR since if you dont read Israeli media, I am pretty sure you havent heard about it. If the environment were more conducive to helping, I am sure that they would treat more of them. I read Israeli, Arabic, Turkish and sometimes Russian and Iranian media every weekday. English translations unfortunately but I dont know Arabic, Hebrew, Farsi etc unfortunately.
As to Palestinian children, I am pretty sure I am pretty in tune to that. I have seen gory pictures etc. Have you? It is heartbreaking. But the sad fact of the matter is that when you have a government and a good amount of the population that are okay with shooting from a dense residential area, there is not much choice. The alternative is letting them continue to attack you. I have seen American generals on tv who say that Israel does more to avoid Palestinian casualties than the US does in Afghanistan or Iraq or other places. I have seen a British general say that as well. Do you think they are lying? What is their motivation for saying that? Do you want a link? There is not much area in that neck of the woods, so some casualties in my mind are unavoidable. There is nothing you can do when your immediate neighbor is trying to anihalate you or attack you whenever they can and you cant stop them.
So if you were Israel and you had to put up walls, fences, fishing limitations on your neighbors because any time there werent these things, they would smuggle in more rockets, attack you, kidnap your soldiers, etc what would you do? Sit back and watch everyone die?
I think a lot of the issue with some liberal people, maybe people who are overly focused on Israel is that we sit here in NJ and there is not much threat except terrorism that is rare here and we cannot really understand that when virtually an entire country has to go in bomb shelters every day for a decent period of the year and are constantly attacked and threatened, it is not quite the same lens as someone who sits reading the paper at Hot Bagels Abroad.
TM
Troublemaker, so in your mind it's okay to kill children as long as they're the children of your enemy?
As a father of a son in the military (who has served in Afghanistan), and a grandfather, I just can't understand that.
Jerry - Not once did I say it is okay to kill children. Not once.
What I said was, sometimes you cant avoid operations if you are constantly attacked. If your neighbor spends little time or money caring for their people and invests so much time and effort in destroying you. It becomes unavoidable because of constant attacks to try and eliminate the command and control and operatives.
What I also said, or implied, is that unfortunately no matter how you plan, children get killed in these operations. It is unavoidable. Do you think in Iraq when the US invaded, no children were killed? And Israel is doing this for its survival, not whatever reason the US had to go into Iraq. If you read Israeli media, they regret all civilians killed. They spend time analyzing what happens and trying to avoid it in the future. Read Arabic media when there is an attack on Israel. It is like a New Years Eve party.
The government in Gaza spends a lot of their time trying to kill Israeli civilians including children.
I remember a few years ago someone from Gaza fired a rocket at a school bus across the border into Israel proper. Killed a 16 year old. So in that case I ask you the question you asked me with a little twist: in your mind it's okay to kill children ON A SCHOOL BUS as long as they're the children of your enemy?
TM
Code Pink is not a follower of the President BDog; far from it. Nor do they speak for or represent the Democrat party. Not one of their visions is included in the Democratic platform. As to even being Democrats, you don't even know that, you guessed, you made it up. And you know what a made up fabrication is, don't you?
Otherwise source the crud you post.
FYI --- at the same time as they war with Palestine, Israel still reaps the benefit of cheap Palestinian labor from the West Bank. Work permits, mostly for manual labor, range between 40,000 and 200,000 over the years. Just an FYI that everything is always more complex than it seems.
sources are linked above,
obama's anti-semitism (as linked above) helps set the stage for other progressives/democrats (like code pink) to emulate
code pink has called for the elimination of Israel (see above)
How do you know Code Pink are Democrats? Source or u making this up too?
How can your conspirital view of Obama's anti-semitism set the stage for a group that does not agree with Obama on anything? You seem to be full of a lot of anger or something.
Now don't call me anti-semetic because I point this out. I want to let you know that some of my best friends are juice. I had juice at my wedding. I have tomato, orange and even grape in the fridge right now. I know you are a friend of the juice too and, in your case, I would recommend a healthy amount of the prune. In your case, it will clear your mind.
Not even close to apartheid; more like the rest of Europe where foreign nationals do the dirty and manual work. But unlike the US, they have legitimized it whereas we like to keep it illegal so we can chest thump and blame the other guy. Sort of like BDog howling at the moon over fake conspiracies.
As to the rest of the Israel and it's neighbors policies; I have to take hours to gain a grasp on the political and policy maze, but both sides are dirty. Just Israel far less; then again, they are on top too.
Does Europe have high concrete walls and checkpoints for workers to pass through to get to work?
Uh, 20% of Israel is Arab: no walls to get into the country there.
Most European foreign nationals live in-country having passed border security at their country of entry; then they are pretty much free to travel from country to country?
Why? Cuz high walls and checkpoints would be the least of the issues with apartheid.
If Israel had their choice that 20% would be 0%. And at the rate the Muslims reproduce they will hit 51% in a few decades. Why else did they break off the Gaza strip???
Really, Israel has no choice? How do you figure? Maybe they just don't like cleaning houses and mowing lawns.
iJay,
You mean 0% like what is happening in Iraq and Syria to non Muslims? Is that the kind of 0% you are talking about?
If you are not Muslim, try going to Mecca for an hour. Did you know its illegal for non Muslims to enter Mecca? So like that 0%?
Why do you never answer any of my points? I think you know its because I can refute each of yours.
As to high walls, it is because it is another COUNTRY. A hostile country. As mistergoogle points out, there are no checkpoints for Israeli Muslims Arabs. There are plenty of them in high places in Israel. And the walls have only been there since there were ATTACKS on Israel. If it were apartheid, the walls would have gone up in 1948, not just about 10 years or so ago after there were uncontrolled suicide bombers and such.
iJay - You specifically - How do you feel about the wall between Saudi Arabia and Yemen? Are you okay with that wall? I seem to think so because you have quite an agenda.
TM
Some people have an interest in keeping Jesus's homeland from becoming a smoking piece of rubble...big part of it nobody talks about.
RU Troublemaker, we don't send our dollars ($$$) to Saudi Arabia, etc. They can do what they want...
Troublemaker,
Just one little quibble about your post - the Israeli wall in its east is not BETWEEN Israel and the West Bank - it is IN the West Bank, in effect taking into Israel quite a bit of West Bank land that does not belong to it, legally, anyway.
Well, also, the West Bank and Gaza are not COUNTRIES, but I guess we need not get into that.
Actually Ijay the US has a minimal investment in Saudi's being trained at US military training which helps interoperability tween our forces, our arms, and the Saudi's so we can work better together. So even here, the taxpayer pays so Saudi's will be more inclined to buy our arms and work with our guys. That's capitalism.
Just saying US military funding under the guise of "foreing aid" is invisible, untracked, and basically unknown as a military expenditure.
Those who attempt to estimate it are usually branded leftist, socialist, progressives with an agenda. Yeah, like knowing for real how HUGE our military budget is as the world's unfunded top cop.
@jd2 - UN recognized Palestine as a country. See one link below but you can Google and find more:
http://www.polgeonow.com/2012/12/palestine-recognized-as-country-by-un.html
From the link: "Now, the organization has officially voted to change Palestine's status to "observer state" - effectively a recognition that it's an independent country, even though it's still not a U.N. member."
TM
TM - Well, it's kind of nebulous, as a full reading of your link shows. If it were truly a state (i.e. country), we wouldn't be despairing as to whether Palestine will ever reach the "two state solution" we keep hearing about.
We (the U.S.) do not recognize it as a country.
Israel gets the most of any foreign nation receiving aid from us:
1) Only recipient to get the entire amount on January 1st versus over 4 quarterly payments
2) 750 million economic aid
3) Only 1/2 military aid has to be spent on US military contractors, all others must spend 100%
4) Loans that are "forgiven" before payment is due (tens of billions given away this way)
5) Additional requests that are fulfilled for tens to hundreds of millions at a pop
Actually IJay, Afghanistan is numero uno.
And of Isreal's aid, $3B is given for military.
I say let them take a loan for some of this with a fantastic low interest rate. Israel's debt/GDP ratio is about half of what our's is; they can afford the loan, we can't.
"If it were truly a state (i.e. country), we wouldn't be despairing as to whether Palestine will ever reach the "two state solution" we keep hearing about. We (the U.S.) do not recognize it as a country."
the Palestinians have never recognized Israel as a state, they have called for the elimination of Israel over and over again,
Israel has offered to recognize Palestine *IF* at the same time Palestine recognizes Israel. Palestine has said they were not going to do that.
Palestine has said that Israel has no right to exist, and they will eliminate Israel from the face of the earth.
Iran has said the same thing and sends support in many forms to the Palestinian Authority.
threatening genocide on the Jews and Israel is anti-semitic
MAY G-D SAVE Israel from all those who wish her demise: from her hostile neighbors who openly declare that they would like to see Israel gone, to our own townsperson who expresses the same sentiment in a thinly veiled manner. May she prosper and forever be a strong, independent country and safe haven for the Jewish people.
Old Gent Mr. G. as mentioned before we invaded Afghanistan and we have to spend for strategic reasons (as in Iraq). I stand corrected on the economic aid but military aid has been increased to be even more than previously.
I am for the God approach, should not cost any money right...
Not questioning the right or wrong, just correcting the ranking of foreign aid by country. I am also for providing Israel help in national defense, just would like to see it accounted for correctly as part of our defense budget, and would like to, for a time, perhaps grant Israel low-interest loans or no-interest loans vs. an out-n-out giveaway. We're broke, they're not.
"I am for the God approach, should not cost any money right"
well correct if that's the way he leads us as a nation, so far he has lead and influenced us to keep supporting Israel, i think that's a good thing, for us and for the world at large.
Give nothing to any country. spend the money building the strongest military known to man and let it be known world wide that the US will defend itself against all comers who threaten our way of life.
sam Sam, mission accomplished. We already have that, can we stop spending on defense now? That would fix the debt in a couple of years and we still would be the strongest.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/17/world/middleeast/benjamin-netanyahu-campaign-settlement.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=first-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0
This a$$hole wants to go against all of our support and funding to reach a two state solution. If he stays in office then we should sever all ties with this selfish regime...
If interested the Dpt of Treasury/IRS is looking for
Volunteer Taxpayer Advocacy Panel Members (64 Vacancies, some in NJ)
As a Volunteer Taxpayer Advocacy Panel member you will:
•Serve in an advisory capacity to the IRS through meetings and focus groups;
•Solicit taxpayer input on specific issues and channel the feedback to the agency;
•Identify, prioritize, and elevate as necessary, taxpayer issues to the IRS;
•Participate in taxpayer outreach opportunities by speaking to individuals and groups about the Panel;
•Annually report and publish the results your teams work.
https://www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/396963900
you might need an account for USAJOBS to see the announcement.
BrownEyesGuy Ike warned us and no one listen. I heard we spend more then the next 11 country s combined on military. We should be the safest place in the world and our vets should live like Kings. The borders are wide open and the world hates us. What could go wrong. Ho !!! and we are broke.
auntiel Oh just look what he had to do to win.
Not to mention shooting any sort of Arab reconciliation anywhere in the foot along the way. As a "dealmaker," he lies through his teeth.
agreed auntiel, i think Israel really needs him at this point in time. Thank god he got re-elected.
This is a pretty good article on the events in Israel
https://www.commentarymagazine.com/2015/03/17/why-did-bibi-win-realism-not-racism-netanyahu-israel-elections/#.VQioqKW6paR.twitter
"I think it has to do more with turning away from the beast of the left."
this is true, i agree with it.
obama worked hard to interfere with the israeli election, spent money to replace bibi with the leftist candidate, obama lost this one big time and our president is a narcissistic, petulant sore loser, not man enough to call and congratulate bibi on his victory, and now is actively working the back alleys at the united nations to coalesce against Israels best interests.
petulant narcissism does not a good leader make.
can't wait for his presidency to be over, how much more damage will this failed president wreak on our nation?
BiBi is a Nationalist not an Internationalist, and that's what the citizens of Israel want and voted for. It is their country. It is not yours, mine and ours. They have been fighting for the right to exist for thousands of years. These people know it and live it every day of their lives. The international community does not agree.
iJay To some it a faith based Country based on the promise of the old testament. You know how important faith is in many decisions in life. Some good and some bad.
http://www.theocracywatch.org/christian_zionism_israel_forms.htm
Spring Fever Thousands of years indeed. For example (?):
"Except for the Hivites living in Gibeon, not one city made a treaty of peace with the Israelites, who took them all in battle. For it was the LORD himself who hardened their hearts to wage war against Israel, so that he might destroy them totally, exterminating them without mercy, as the LORD had commanded Moses."
Joshua 11:19-20 (New Int'l Version)
"the beast of the left." Thank you. It's nice to know we are approaching your level of ferocity. Yet we still have a long ways to go.
"Obama worked hard to interfere with the Israeli election, spent money to replace Bibi with the leftist candidate" allegedly except in the publications you read.
The other choice from Bibi was a center-left coalition, not exactly the beast of the left, whatever that silly saying means.
In the end, Israeli's chose between economic issues and safety and Bibi had to pull out all the stops to get them there.
In 2009, and forced by Obama, Bibi delivered his vision of a two state solution with caveats over Palestinian disarmament, recognition of Israel's right to exist, and Israel having defensible borders and Jerusalem. When Bibi did this at Obama's request, it was a similar solution as Bush spoke of in 2002.
With Obama pushing him again, he shortly declared two year-long building freezes.
To me, these ideas were great; however saying em and doing em is quite different and the region had miles of tribulations to go to make real progress. It was a start, a toe in the water, a fragile seed that had to be nurtured to grow.
All of these actions pissed off right-wing war mongering beasts in his own party and probably yours (except for the blessed Bush). But as Bush had said, Obama had made Bibi say, and with careful care and feeding, it could have worked.
4 years later a weakened Bibi reformed his government adding left and right wing concessions. Obama continued to push and now Bibi released those prisoners and added further construction freezes ----- and Israel became polarized. Obama screwed up. You don't try to build on top of a weakened foundation.
Now a few years later and it's getting crazier everywhere. Bibi would have bombed Iran in 2012 except for Obama messing up the deal. No we have our own US party polar icebergs and Boehner attempted a melt down with the Bibi speech; Bibi was only too happy to flame Obama, 47 Senators piled on consorting with the enemy and probably any hope of a nuclear deal is a screwed pooch too, thanks to better deal makers than our President. The worm had turned and Bibi was going to fight back so he, and Israel in his mind, could survive.
In the end, Bibi was still losing. So at the last second, he gave away ministry positions, he announced there would be no more compromise government --- 100% hard right or religious only, he reneged on his deal -- there would be NO Palestinian state, ever, Jerusalem would never be divided, no one would be released. And a building boom would begin. He also added a fear factor; the Israeli Arab vote, they were busing them in.
Bibi is a survivor, a shrewd politician, a seasoned street fighter. Obama's continual pushing for concession and coalition backfired both home and abroad; he pushed too far. But Bibi gave up a lot too. And probably so did the world. He is not a deal maker, he is not a master negotiator, he is a liar and a thief. At least that's how any of his neighbors have to treat him now. Now not only are his enemies his enemies, but no country in the region can ever trust him.
Bibi will get what he wants: war. Either we will start it, or Bibi will start it for us and when we go, and we will, the question will be is it a country conflict, a regional war or a world religious war. We can bomb Iran out of existence, but we can't put it back together again and we will have a failed country and probably a failed region. Think Iraq on steroids.
Bibi, Boehner, Obama ---- to me they all screwed up for different reasons but I think it is our boys and their children that will pay the piper. I would have liked to at least seen the deal before we broke it.
That would be fine Auntiel, just stop taking our money and expect that we (US) will continue to be the sole unconditional backer of Israel in the UN. It is not in the US best interests to blindly support Israel. There are 1 billion Muslims that see the hypocrisy and a large portion of the 911 bombers were motivated by this...
Perhaps a reasonable conclusion but a hideous article playing to an emotional response. Equivalent to a personal editorial or opinion piece. No facts there.
GC Editorial for sure, but a few facts...
"In the 2015 budget, the Obama administration has requested (and will almost certainly receive) $3.1 billion in aid to Israel, or $378.33 per Israeli citizen. As Matt Yglesias shows, on a per-capita basis, this is six times what Afghanistan gets as the second-largest recipient, and 94 times what Nigeria gets as the fifth-largest."
As Dennis Prager said..." the Middle East situation in regards to Israel is very simple. One side wants the other side DEAD. Israel makes peace with Islamo-Nazis (as Mark Levin calls them) they're DEAD. Withdraw to the 1967 borders so they can't defend themselves they're DEAD. Allow Iran to build a nuke they're DEAD."
Bottom line: Obama's policies in regards to Israel if fully implemented means 6 million more DEAD Jews whatever Obama's delusional Jewish defenders think.
NEVER AGAIN!
If you want to get an education on the 'Taxpayer abuse' going on under this rogue administration and you want to know why so much rampant anti-semitism.... listen to Mark Levin > WABC Radio Talk Show Host >** EXPERT Constitutional Lawyer** & Author of Liberty & Tyranny...here's his take on the anti - semitism...
http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2015/03/20/is-the-obama-administration-anti-semitic-or-anti-israel/
The following audio is from Mark's show yesterday>>*** Incredible and breaking news from the wall street journal you should all listen to >>stunning behind the scenes negotiations with iran>> the world is telling obama ""no"" to nuclear war heads......except for our enemies!
http://www.stationcaster.com/player_skinned.php?s=2591&c=10771&f=4157273
***(also a Shout out from Mark Levin to Charlie Sheen for his TWEET to Obama about his "bracket picks" while the World is on Fire!!")
Americans have to wake up before 2016 and get rid of these Marxists in our Government or America is DEAD as a nation too!
sha44ss We are living in these days of history being made.
http://nypost.com/2015/03/22/israel-beware-of-obama/
History... maybe the excessive influence of AItPAC will be uncovered and acknowledged for what it is. They are trying to strong-arm Obama, e.g.:
http://www.worldtribune.com/2015/03/22/pro-israel-aipac-delivers-first-public-challenge-to-obama/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etXAm-OylQQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHl1JnQoIWQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMbHB8PnXA8
Enlightening if you dare to watch...
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