MLB Hotstove 2014/2015
It's that time of year again... The MLB offseason. Time to speculate on moves and signings and how the Mets will do nothing to improve their team offensively.
Metsman The Mets should keep their pitching as is and try to sign one quality outfielder with some good experience in MLB.
The reason is teams like the Giants and Royals have shown that you don't need high priced guys to win championships, you just need guys who are winners and good pitchers. Look at the Yankees, Rangers and Angels who have spent a lot of money and cant get it done.
Danny60 Winners? Considering the royals hadn't been in the playoffs since 1985 which of them were the 'winners?' Shields and.........? Fundamentally flawed theory.
MeisterNJ I agree with Meister. How many years in a row did the Yankees make the playoffs by spending money on quality players? Only in the last few years have there been issues with aging of star players and not overspending for free agents. I am willing to bet that Kansas City will not be in the playoffs again for at least 5 years if they don't spend a lot more money.
MK For your information Danny60 the Giants payroll is 6th out of 30 teams with 5 players getting 11 -18 million a year. So your theory is even more flawed if you stick to facts...........
The Royals had a higher payroll than the Mets, so they were spending $85-90 million on payroll. The teams that have been winning are above the $100 million threshold. The 2003 Marlins are the last low payroll team to win. The Mets need to spend money on 2 quality hitters before they will be contenders. Maybe they'll get lucky and guys like Lagares and D'Arnaud will produce at a higher level in 2015, but you can't count on that. Not in NY. They need a left fielder and a short stop that can swing the bat. The team is at a point where they need to add. Hopefully these block head owners see that. A friend of mine and I were throwing out ideas. How great would it be if they could pull off a trade to get Reyes and Bautista from Toronto? If these owners want to fill the seats, that's the kind of splash they need to make.
The steroid era is over, how many times did the Mets' hitters strike out last year?
There's the problem.
Some trivia -- who was the first relief pitcher to win a Cy Young Award?
He appeared in 106 games and threw 209 innings, all in relief.
He pitched in the World Series that year.
As Jayson Stark would say, good luck.
Andy Loigu Good guess, but Gossage was 21 years old when this guy won the award.
I was 24, if that matters any. It wasn't an Oriole ... being a relief pitcher for the O's was the world's easiest job in those days, Weaver might put you into a game once a week if you're lucky. I remember seeing a sign in the O's dugout that said 'All starters must finish.'
Well, I've got stuff to do, so I'll give you that answer ...
it was Mike Marshall with the Dodgers back in 1974.
A little bit before your time, I suppose, but I posted it because there is a guy who never gets mentioned in baseball chatter anymore, yet he did something amazing in his day.
Everybody remembers 74 for Hank Aaron, with good reason.
I remember Marshall. Think I even remember him pitching for the Dodgers.
Marshall's been mentioned in baseball chatter recently. Isn't he the one who teaches that funky delivery that isn't supposed to tax the arm as much?
Haven't seen it, but he'd certainly be knowledgeable in that area ... he pitched for eight big league teams in a 14-year career, his last three seasons were in the AL with Texas and Minnesota.
The GM meetings are this week in Arizona. Should hear lots of rumors.
Metsman
Problem with us (Mets) it will be a bunch of rumors, but no trigger pulling. Would love to get Giancarlo ( used to be known as Mike) Stanton from Marlins.
Clyde Potts There's already a popular one making the rounds about the 2015 Mets. They suck. Haha.
There's already a popular one making the rounds about the 2015 Mets. They suck. Haha.
MeisterNJ
Low blow but LMAO
LOL... MeisterNJ
Buster Olney predicts the Mets will be making moves. We shall see if it's for good players or for the scrap heap as usual.
I couldn't resist.
In all seriousness, if they do get a couple bats, they will be alright next year.
Yankees signed Chris Young for one season. Ugh.
A couple of bats and rebound years by Wright and Granderson and they could be sniffing the playoffs.
Nelson Cruz is out there ... he'll cost a lot of money.
Heard a good discussion the other day, is Alfonso Soriano a Hall of Famer?
ianimal "A couple of bats and rebound years by Wright and Granderson and they could be sniffing the playoffs"
You're the one "sniffing" something... and it ain't the playoffs. Airplane glue, by the sound of it (-;
ianimal, Cuddyer is solid. He's my age actually. They have the pitching to contend.
I agree. Cuddyer is a solid player. .330 BA, 20 hr's, 80 rbi. Of course that will come down a bit hitting in Citi Canyon. As long as they don't expect him to play over 130 games it's a good signing.
You're joking, right? He's going to turn 36 before he ever takes the field for the Mets and he spent well over 100 games on the DL last year. And I hope you aren't expecting him to hit well over .300 like he did in Colorado... he'll probably hit closer to .260-270 at Citi Field.
This is another god awful move by the Mets and you won't believe it till you see it. What are they paying him, $15M? LOL....
MNJ, you realize that .330/20/80 stat line was when he played in Denver, right? I think you might be able to put up that kind of production playing there (-;
And they gave up the 15th overall draft pick to sign him.... THAT really doesn't make sense.
You do realize he put up similar power numbers hitting in Minnesota right ianimal? He's not a product of the thin air. If he gives the Mets a line of .270 15HR 70RBI, then it's a good signing. I don't know what you consider a good signing. $10.5 mil a year for that production is the minimum going rate. You want a premium hitter, it's going to cost twice as much and a lot more years. Cuddyer will bridge the gap until guys like Nimmo and Conforto are ready.
The Mets also have the most balanced farm system according to many scouts. So eventually you have to stop stocking up on picks and try to go for it. Hopefully they aren't done and pick up a SS in a trade that can hit.
How about someone who isn't a journeyman outfielder with an average bat and below average defense, who isn't closer to 40 than he is to 30, who doesn't have recent injury issues, and actually has some upside? And doesn't cost you more than 10% of what your total payroll was in 2014. That would be a start.
This might be a good signing if they had a handful of superstars that carried the team and were just looking for a guy to fill a role. That's not even close to being the case. And the Wilpons made the deal... that makes me leery right off the bat.
One would hope he is healthy now which is hopefully why they signed him. Who would you have preferred they bring in? The other guys out there are going to cost a lot more.
Hope in one hand and sh*t in the other... which hand usually fills up first when you're talking about the Wilpons?
To quote myself : 'Of course that will come down a bit hitting in Citi Canyon'. So yes, I acknowledged he did much of that in COL. But if you look at his hr's, he hit almost as many away from home. BA, OBP were down. He's a solid player, and better than Granderson and Chris Young.
You acknowledged that he was moving to a very pitcher-friendly ballpark. Even if he were coming from a neutral ballpark, you would expect it to come down "a bit".
Coming from the most hitter-friendly park in MLB, I would expect it to come down even more than that, from a BA standpoint.
I'm not arguing that he isn't better than Granderson at this point in their careers. But he's even older and just as likely to spend half the year on the DL. Do I think this was as bad as the Granderson pickup? No... but I don't see much chance for it to turn out to be a WOW pickup either. More possibility of downside than upside.
The strength of this team is going to be the pitching. I’ll go with a top 3 of Harvey, Wheeler, and deGrom any day. Niese and Gee are also solid pitchers. I assume one of them or Colon will not be on the opening day roster, but any combination with that top 3 is pretty good. It gives them a shot at winning every day. They went 79-83 in 2014 prior to Cuddyer being signed. I expect a much better 2015 with Wright healthy, Granderson in a set spot in the lineup, and Harvey back at the top of the rotation. As stupid as these owners can be, I think even they see it’s time to go for it. Hopefully they make a trade for a good all-around SS.
Haha. That's funny ian.
I said he was a solid player and a good signing. Where did I say he would set the world on fire?
Have they scheduled Tommy John surgery for Wheeler and de Grom yet?
___________________________________________________________
damn that's funny
Whip Not specifically, but seemed like it ianimal.
If D'Arnaud stays healthy, Wright rebounds, Duda wasn't a complete fluke, and Granderson at least provides some power -the lineup will be respectable. Yes, it's a bunch of ifs. Add one more bat in addition to Cuddyer and you have a major league lineup, if not a major league defense. Fill the sucking chest wound at SS and then you may have something that could sniff the playoffs.
As Pat Kirwan says, you only get two "if"s... any more than that and the discussion is over because it's entered the realm of pipe dreams.
I'd like to see the Mets do well. Really. But I've been down this road way too many times before... I'm not buying it.
But it's eminently entertaining to see Metsman get right back on that horse every offseason (-;
Health to the lineup is the only issue. If guys are hurt then of course it'll be tough to compete. They would have been over .500 in 2014 if Wright wasn't hurt for 2/3 of the season and that idiot Collins just let Duda hit cleanup and Granderson 5th or 6th. Collins tinkers too much that's why he's a crap manager. Just let guys play. They have the pitching.
What was I optimistic about last year? I said they'd be a .500 team which they pretty much were.
Look at Granderson's splits batting 5th or 6th over other spots he batted in. He had amazing numbers. Collins is a moron. He needs to go.
Wasn't it 2012 when the Mets were outkicking their coverage for two months that you could see the Flushing AAA squad make the playoffs, Metsman?
Look at his splits at Citi Field... BA .195 w/ 7 HR and 26 RBI in 79 games. That's way more telling than cherry-picking a handful of games without the context of where those games were played and what the scores were.
Where was he playing when he was hitting 5th and 6th, Yankee Stadium, Great American, Turner Field and Coors Field? Cuz he's got great numbers there, too... he had just as many HRs at Turner, GAB and Yankee Stadium (7) in fourteen games as he did in an entire season at Citi and only10 less RBI.
But I definitely agree with you that he should be hitting 5th, 6th or 7th. If a guy's only going to hit .220, there better be guys on base in front of him if you expect any production at all.
MeisterNJ I don't remember what I said 2 or 3 years ago. I remember my prediction for 2014 was correct.
I didn't look that extensively ianimal. I do know the fence being brought in will help his numbers at Citifield. He would have hit 7 more HR if they didn't have that ridiculous dimension in Right Center. He had over 123 AB's batting 5th or 6th. I have no way of seeing what the Home/Road numbers are in those spots. Start by keeping him in those spots and go from there. I do know he blew chunks hitting leadoff, 2nd, and cleanup. Those amount for 80% of his AB's. So there must be something to a player and his being comfortable in certain spots in the lineup.
"So there must be something to a player and his being comfortable in certain spots in the lineup."
Not necessarily. If they were games where the Mets were mostly on the road, it could just mean that he was more comfortable at those other ballparks and it had nothing to do with his position in the lineup.
But I agree with you... and I think we've had this discussion before... that he doesn't belong hitting leadoff. Lagares needs to lead off, but he also needs to work more walks and get his OBP up to a respectable level.
Congratulations to Lagares on his first Gold Glove in CF, too.
If you just account for the 7 HR he could have had with the new dimensions, that raises his batting average 24 points at home. Factor in a few doubles bounced off the wall and then his home numbers look a lot different. I see him hitting about .240 next year. And if his power numbers are there, you take it.
That's assuming that pitchers would have pitched him exactly the same if the dimensions were different. A lot of those fly ball outs that you think would have been HRs might have been extra strikeouts, because they wouldn't have served up a fly ball pitch to him. Or not, it's just impossible to extrapolate new dimensions onto last year's results...
Hmmm. He'll be 34 next year. I don't predict a bump in BA. With the fences moving in, his hr's will probably remain constant. That tiger's stripes are pretty well etched in stone.
ianimal, it's still a pitchers park even moving the fence in like they are. I don't see pitchers changing their game plan. And you also assume all pitchers have pinpoint control.
MeisterNJ, he could have had 27 HR in 2014. All players age differently. Look at what Victor Martinez just did at age 36.
Victor Martinez also blew his knee out a couple years ago and looks like he's finally recovered. What's Granderson's excuse for steady decline? Oh, and, there's one small little difference between the two: Not only does Martinez not strike out that often (42 times in 2014). He rarely swings and misses. I think he has less swings and misses in a season than Granderson has....K's. Granderson's skillset is not the kind that ages gracefully.
Granderson got hurt too. Last year was his first full year back. I'll make my final view of him next season. I'm not going to base a year where the Mets flip flopped him all over the lineup as a fair assessment. They didn't use him correctly. Stick him in the 5 or 6 spot and he'll be fine.
http://metsblog.com/metsblog/recent-photos-of-of-wall-construction-at-citi-field/
If the dimensions are like Shea then there's no excuse for hitters to not be able to hit there.
The Mets need a couple big bats, and a solid SS and they will be contenders. At least, I can hope they will be.
LAS Yeah one of those bats has to be Wright who didn't show up in 2014 because of his shoulder. Supposedly he is cleared to resume baseball activities next month. Lagares and D'Arnaud also have to build upon their rookie seasons. They both have potential. Duda has to prove he can produce every year. There are a lot of whatifs like ianimal has stated, but that's how baseball is. Nothing is a given. They don't need a superstar lineup, just a consistent one. Pitching, defense, and timely hitting win games. The Giants have shown us that. They don't have stacked lineups.
“It smooths it out a bit, makes it a little more symmetrical,” one team official said (Newsday, Oct. 2014). “The general premise is to make it a fairer ballpark for hitters and pitchers and a little less gimmicky.”
So, Alderson and the Wilpons took a very cool looking ballpark that was geometrically and architecturally interesting and now they want to turn it into a symmetrical visual turd like Shea (or Riverfront or Three Rivers or The Vet or any of the other crappy cookie cutter stadia of that generation)? Why? So Grandersuck can hit 7 more HRs? Is there anyone with half a brain anywhere near the front of the bus in this organization?
If some guy named Joe Hardy shows up at Citi Field this spring, we'll know Metsman sold his soul to the devil (-;
Congrats to Buck for his Manager of the Year Award.
He wins one every decade, but said he won't be winning one 10 years from now.
ianimal, it isn't just Granderson that benefits. Wright naturally hits to right center.
Maybe they should put hydraulics in all the fences so that they can move each panel in or out for each at bat depending on the Mets batter's natural tendencies. Then, when the other team is at bat, you just move them all back. That would help the Mets win some games, lol.
They should have kept the dimensions that Shea had in the first place. It was always regarded as a pitcher's park.
No, they shouldn't have. Symmetrical parks like Shea are cheesy, regardless of the dimensions. Citi was so much cooler when they built it because it was asymmetric and had architectural nuances; too bad they're ruining it. Just one more reason not to go there...
ianimal, give me a break... you have got to be the most disgruntled Mets fan I have ever seen. You look for any little thing to criticize about.
When people talk about the greatest ballparks of all time, name one that came out of the era of the symmetrical cookie-cutter stadiums.
The Astrodome is the only one I can think of that people MIGHT mention, and that would only be because it was the first dome... as a ballpark, it was pretty crappy.
13 years and $325 million for Mike Stanton from the Marlins. Even more amazing is that they gave him both a full no-trade clause AND an "opt-out" clause that he can exercise after 6 years.
ianimal, Mike Stanton is not the player signed by the Marlins, that player is Juan Carlo Stanton.
Same person. Stanton debuted a few years ago as Mike Stanton. He changed his name a year or 2 later.
NJSkyWatcher At least MLB doesn't have guys with names like Metta World Peace and World B. Free.
If you're going to criticize, at least get the name right MK, it's Giancarlo Stanton.
LOL is right. I also remember the USFL, the Baltimore Stars were their last champions with Kelvin Bryant at running back, Chuck Fusina at QB and Sam Mills (Montclair State) was the middle linebacker.
Back to baseball, Mets and Orioles fans all can look back and marvel at either the genius (or was it pure luck?) of Frank Cashen.
While the Mets' farm system produced guys like Doc, Straw, Mookie and Lenny, Cashen STOLE Keith Hernandez and David Cone in trades that defy all "logic."
Go back and look at what the Mets gave up to get those guys? Practically nothing.
Before that, with the O's, Cashen stole Lee May, Ken Singleton (BIG power numbers), Mike Torrez, Mike Cuellar (20-game winners with the O's) and he learned from Lee McPhail, who stole Frank Robinson (Triple Crown, World Series MVP).
Maybe it was simply being able to identify and get a player that another team did not want to pay the money he was worth.
It's like playing the lottery ... a little bit o' luck.
the mets didn't steal cocaine keith.the cardinals couldn't wait to get him out of their clubhouse.
noreaster I'm old enough to remember Alvin Dark, RIP.
http://www.bannergraphic.com/blogs/dazeblog/entry/60444/
Andy, your favorite mediocre Orioles' player is headed to ATL. Markakis signs a 4 yr deal for 45 million. Man, Atl is just not a smart org anymore.
$11M a year for a 31-year old 2x Gold Glover in Markakis sounds a lot better than the same money for a 35-year old Cuddyer. I wouldn't have complained if the Mets signed Markakis for that kind of money, lol.
Cuddyer is a better hitter. Much more power. That said, I might be coming around to your way of thinking on him though.
They're both getting market value. Superstars get paid twice as much per year and get longer deals.
I don't know about "much" more power... Markakis averaged 17 HRs over 162 games and Cuddyer averaged 21 for their careers to date. Runs and RBI are relatively the same as well... couple more runs for Markakis, couple more RBI for Cuddyer.
At this point in their careers, I think Markakis is a lot more valuable though. Did the Braves give up anything significant in a trade? Obviously that would raise the "price" from more than just $11M a year to a free agent.
Markakis was a marvelous Oriole, wasn't Frank Robinson, Paul Blair, or even a Ken Singleton or Adam Jones, but he had some real good years and always gave them good outfield defense (which was desperately needed when he came up) a plus arm (not an Alex Ochoa arm, but better than average) and the fans loved him.
Last night, the way O's fans calling WBAL (yeah, transposed it spells bawl) were lamenting his moving on, you'd think the guy was Derek Jeter or something.
He's not worth what the Braves offered, obviously. Can't blame the guy for taking the money, though. He's not a steroid guy, so now that he's in his 30s, the declining numbers won't get any better.
Nelson Cruz is gone, too. He gave us a marvelous year .... offensively.
?? Markakis hasn't hit more than 15 since 2010, never more than 23. Cuddyer has three seasons of 20 in that time, with an outlier at 32 the year before. If you want to extrapolate to 162, Cuddyer would have hit 30 last year because he hit 10 in 49 games.
3 year averages are 13 and 19.
Markakis is the more valuable player overall though, because of the defense and age.
We can all blame Marvin Miller for what he did to create an industry where players can be overpaid when they become free agents.
By the way, it was way back in 1977, but I have now finally forgiven Reggie Jackson for leaving the Orioles for the pinstripes.
I should also forgive Mike Mussina, but that will take awhile yet (-;
Now that the Yankees are not so great, it is hard to keep hating them.
If you want to extrapolate to 162, look at Alex Ochoa's numbers for 1999 and 2000 and add them up into one year.
A guy like him would never be a part-time player in THIS non-hitting era, he was a non-steroid user at the wrong time. If he could play for the Mets and not be mentioned in Kirk Radomski's book, he was not a steroid user.
Circumstantial case ...
Markakis has also been hitting leadoff a lot the past few years, which may have led to a different approach at the plate (trying to get on versus swinging for the fences) that could change if he were regularly batting in a different slot in the lineup. (I sound like Metsman making excuses for Grandersuck now, don't I, lol) Or not... maybe he has just lost power or maybe he was juicing at one point? Who knows? I think Atlanta made out a lot better than the Mets did though, all things considered.
I love this site for stats...
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/cuddymi01-bat.shtml
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/markani01-bat.shtml
ianimal, the Mets had Granderson leadoff for 2 months when he isn't a leadoff hitter. He should have been batting 5th or 6th the whole season. It would have produced a way different outcome with his numbers.
We'll just have to wait and see what the O's do with the money they saved by letting Cruz and Markakis walk.
I see Torii Hunter is going back to the Twins ... an "old timer" now.
The Yankees got Didi Gregorius for a mediocre pitcher in Shane Greene, but yet the D-Backs demanded Noah Syndergaard who's a potential ace from the Mets. That one is a head scratcher....
They obviously know that Mets management is stupid and attempted to take advantage of that fact. Can't blame them; it was worth a shot, lol.
It's a 3 way trade with the Tigers. It just cracks me up how the Mets blow chances like this. They could have basically sent Dillon Gee to Detroit.
I suppose once you run out of tears thinking about the incompetence and mismanagement of the Wilpons and Alderson and how it affects the team on the field... laughter is the only thing you have left, but it's the hysterical laughter of a crazy person (-;
lol... This team does drive me crazy. A NY market that operates on a bubble gum budget....
How good is Syndergaard, anyway? Since he's been out there in Vegas, I've never had a chance to watch him pitch.
I saw d'Arnaud play for the Lakewood Blue Claws in A ball. He was tearing up the South Atlantic League and the Phillies were all excited about him, although he slumped and his final numbers were kind of pedestrian. He played in the All-Star game and the Claws won the league championship in the playoffs that year.
The Phils shipped him to Toronto in the Roy Halladay trade.
Halladay is only the fifth pitcher to win the Cy Young in both leagues.
Who were the other four?
Gaylord Perry, who claims to be the only guy to win one Cy Young 'wet' and another one 'dry' ... when everybody was looking for him to throw spitters but he wasn't doing it anymore.
Hope they re-sign McCarthy and Headley. Maybe they'll get in on Yosmani Tomas. Seems to be a good hitter. Not expecting Puig or Jose Abreu, but would be a solid addition.
Depends who the opposing SP is. If it's a righty, Gregorious. Lefty, it will be Ryan. As of now.
Winter meetings this week, should be some interesting moves made ... I'm sure the O's will have a shopping list.
Madison Bumgarner got the last out of Game 7 in the World Series on the road with the potential tying run at third base.
Prior to "Mad Bum," who was the last pitcher to do the exact same thing?
There haven't been all that many World Series game sevens won by the visiting team.
As Jayson Stark would say to Mike and Mike, good luck.
Correct, Jesse Orosco closed out that 1986 series at Shea, and when they played a seven-gamer with Oakland in 1973, they lost on the road.
The answer is a Yankee, Ralph Terry in 1962, when the Yankees won their 20th title at San Francisco ... it ended on a Willie McCovey line drive to Bobby Richardson.
That was the year I became an O's fan for life, and y'all can blame a pretty blonde I had a crush on ...I met her that summer in Baltimore (Erdman Ave. to be precise). I liked baseball but didn't really have a favorite team yet, I liked Mantle and Maris from that chase for Ruth's record the year before and knew the Yankees were the best team by far.
Well, she was an O's fan and invited me to join her with her family for an outing at Memorial Stadium ... the O's took a doubleheader from the Yanks... been an O's guy ever since.
Since some wise guy will probably ask, "did you marry her?" I must be transparent and let you know she broke my heart in 1970 when I was 20 ... she met a 28-year old guy named Jeff and I never saw her again.
You don't need to cry any tears for me, though, I met a nice Jersey girl in 72 and have been married to her for 36 years, now.
Fortunately, the O's were SO GOOD in 70 and 71, I wasn't sitting around being heartbroken ... playing college basketball I met plenty of girls, more than I had time for ... ah, youth.
Those White Sox are acting like the Yankees of the George Steinbrenner era ...
buying up everybody.
So the Mets had no interest in any of those guys?
Chris Rock must have been right on the Letterman show ... "the Mets have no money, Dave. Y'know how other teams have bat day? At the Mets game it's BRING A BAT day...."
This ownership is a joke. The new commissioner needs to grow a set and get these scammers out of hear....
I'm waiting for the O's to do something ... you guys didn't like Markakis' numbers, but he's left a hole in their outfield that needs to be filled.
The O's used to let guys like Bobby Grich and Reggie walk, because they had an Eddie Murray and Richie Dauer ready on the farm ...
they don't have that kind of a deep farm system anymore.
The Yankees letting Robertson walk? Can't understand why they have never valued the guys they have (at least the ones not named Jeter) while they pursue high priced players from other teams. Kinda like guys who have a good woman but don't appreciate her.
Hey, just compared Brett Gardner's career numbers to Alex Ochoa ...
Gardner: 2487 ab 40 hr 235 rbi .265 average .346 on base ...
Ochoa: 2143 ab 46 hr 261 rbi .279 average .344 on base...
and you guys talk about Ochoa like he was some failed bum.
He was a guy the O's should not have traded and then a guy the Mets should not have traded.
Yeah, and Alex Ochoa threw Rickey Henderson out by a mile at home plate on a FOX Saturday afternoon game July 18, 1998 ... and Rickey's reaction was funny, wish I could find the video to post it.
somebody else must have thrown Rickey out somewhere, but when I asked Francesa if he'd ever seen Henderson thrown out, he said he never had seen that happen... said Henderson was a baserunner comparable to Mays.
Sorry to go memory lane on you, but I have seen Clemente, several times.
He made a memorable throw in the 71 series, when Merv Rettenmund (the O's fourth outfielder in those days) tagged up and went to third on a medium distance fly to Roberto.
The Great One made a helluva throw, but Merv did beat it. Barely.
I don't think anyone else on the Orioles, even Paul Blair, would have dared to try.
Merv was one of those march to a different drummer type of guys who always said funny things ... kind of a happy go lucky Tug McGraw type. If he thought about it at all, he probably thought, I don't care who that is in right field, I'm goin.
San Diego is all in ... making deals and going for it.
The Mets right now remind me very much of the Orioles team I started following in the early 60s ... they, too, had a farm system LOADED with young pitching. Oh, how I remember the adults raving about the "Kiddie Korps" and "Baby Birds" as they were called back then.
They realized they needed to use some of that to build the team that won pennants in 66, 69, 70,and 71.
Robin Roberts was, for them, like Bartolo Colon is for the Mets now, an experienced guy who didn't have the fastball any more, but knew how to win and was someone the kids could emulate and learn from.
They traded for a shortstop (future Hall of Famer Luis Aparicio) and for future Hall of Famer Frank Robinson who came to town and won the triple crown. They traded their ace at the time, Milt Pappas, for him.
People were saying "can we win without Pappas" ... well, they put a 20-year old kid who struggled with wildness in the minors into the rotation ... this skinny lanky guy named Jim Palmer ... turned out to be pretty good (-;
To make a long story short ... it's great to be sitting on top of pitching prospects, but to win, you've gotta make some deals, make something happen.
Oh yeah, they also picked up this outfielder who the Mets didn't protect from the Rule 5 draft ... Paul Blair.
.
I agree ... back then, hardly anybody even knew who the O's owner was ... he just let the GM and scouts do their jobs and signed the checks.
Yankees send Phelps and Prado to the Marlins for Garrett Jones, Nathan Eovaldi, and minor leaguer Domingo German.
This one has me scratching my head.....Eovaldi did average highest fastball velocity in league last year, but also lead the league in hits given up.
That's the problem, Jeff Wilpon meddles with things. He's a god damned moron that needs to be picked off by a sniper or set on fire. LOL...
Just as McCarthy improved greatly after coming to the Yankees Eovaldi will improve too. The main part of the trade was to get a backup first basemen (Garret) so we would not have to go through A-Rod learning first base. A-Rod will probably be the DH against left handers and on the bench most other times...........works for me.
Sometimes teams will take on a player as a "project" if a coach believes he can "fix him" and sometimes those projects have become success stories.
You can't give up anybody of real value to get that kind of a player, you want it to just be a "no-risk" proposition, sign him to a Triple-A contract, something like that.
Interesting how the Yankees, saddled with the A-Rod contract, and the Mets, saddled with Bernie Madoff, are not laying out the bucks for the big name players anymore ... still can't believe Robbie Cano left.
Going back to that Pappas for Frank Robinson trade in Dec. 65, it is like if the Mets traded Matt Harvey for Mike Trout today ... really, a future 200-game winner for a 5-tool future Hall of Famer who finished with close to 600 homers (pre-steroids) won the Triple Crown in his first year with his new club ... a blockbuster quality-for-quality trade the type you just don't see anymore.
Could you imagine the buzz in New York if the Mets came up with a triple crown winner and won the series next year?
Are you effing kidding me... The Mets still owe Strawberry money?! These owners are the dumbest in sports...
http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/story/_/id/12065943/irs-auction-new-york-mets-deal-owed-darryl-strawberry
Yeah, be careful Metsman .. if something happens to the Wilpons you'd be a suspect ... you've left a trail of hate messages on this social media site ... of course, we know you're just letting off steam and you'd never actually DO ANYTHING ...
when the O's went through 15 bad seasons I was no fan of Peter Angelos either ... he fired Frank Robinson in 95 ... how can you fire Frank Robinson in Baltimore?
I sent some mad letters about how their farm system deteriorated to Mike Flanagan, who was making personnel moves, because as a guy who was part of the famed Oriole Way I thought he should know better ... etc etc ... and then Flanny committed suicide ... then I was sorry I sent the letters ... not that he ever saw them.
Oh well, Merry Christmas
Actually, what do you always hear about people who go on killing sprees with guns?
He was so quiet, kept to himself, never bothered anybody.
Us verbal guys who express ourselves, we let our frustration out by communicating.
More people should be like us ... we'd all be safer (-:
Here's a story about Flanny (1979 Cy Young Winner) after his death. I felt so bad that I'd written him letters saying he was screwing up the Orioles ... if he'd actually seen one (maybe someone in the office screened them) and if it contributed to his insecure feelings ... oh well ... what's done is done.
We really need to try and be nice to each other, because you never know.
http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2012-08-18/news/bs-md-rodricks-flanagan-20120818_1_mike-flanagan-orioles-president-for-baseball-operations
My Hall of Fame ballot ...
Randy Johnson
John Smoltz
Pedro Martinez
Jeff Bagwell
Tim Raines
Mike Piazza
Alex Ochoa LOL (-;
With the exception of Ochoa, that's a good ballot. But Piazza will come up short and Bagwell a long way to go.
Bagwell's numbers were amazing ... it's just that they were overshadowed by Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, et al ...
as far as I know, Bagwell was clean.
No support for Joe McEwing? Super Joe?
I still can't get over Piazza not getting in ... I've heard sports radio hosts saying there was 'innuendo' about him being a PED user, but his stat sheet does not fit the profile ... his best hitting years were before he was 35 ... as he got older the bat wasn't quite as thunderous. We really don't know who used and who did not... but.... I never thought Piazza was a user.
Agreed. Best hitting catcher ever should be in the Hall. I was listening to Cowherd this morning. Biggio developed more power AFTER age 35, and you don't hear any rumors about him. I wouldn't have guessed that.
Just looked at Biggio's numbers ... his two top home run seasons were at age 39 and 40 ... and he hit 21 at age 41.
To me, to be a HOF you should have won a gold glove, or an MVP, or led the league in a significant batting category like runs scored or RBIs, something like that to show you were at the top of the sport when you played.
He won some gold gloves at second base, but no MVP awards ... led the league in runs scored twice with Bagwell batting behind him, led the league in doubles and steals in that awful strike-shortened 1994 season.
I hate to disparage someone who had such a good career, but we're talking about the Hall of Fame here, where only the best of the best belong.
Andy there's plenty of old timers in the HOF that don't belong there if we go by your definition of a HOFer.
It's hard to impose any "sure fire" rules, but the big awards are the first thing I look for.... like four straight Cy Young awards for the Big Unit ... wow.
You need something that makes you go ... WOW ... that's a Hall of Famer!
Johnson and Schilling (who may get in next year and Piazza certainly should) remind me of a Yankee fan I worked with when Arizona won that 2001 WS.
She was on her high horse after the Yankees won the playoffs (little did we know they'd end up making a movie about Billy Beane, who was on the losing end) ... and then she said with an air of smugness ... "who are the Diamondbacks??"
I normally avoided getting into conversations with her, but I said, "Randy Johnson and Curt Schilling, you guys are in trouble now."
After the D-backs won games 1 and 2 and we were back in the office on Monday, I needled her (even though I don't like to be that way) ... said, what do you think of Johnson and Schilling now?
She said, "oh, we're just not hitting."
Like it was pure coincidence. Sorry, Meister, I didn't have a very high opinion of Yankees fans that day ...
After Zona won the series I gave her a free can of Arizona iced tea every day for a couple of weeks, because I'm such a nice guy LOL
we showed her no mercy in 2004 (-;
I'm sure you've all seen those posted signs at your workplaces that show someone with the hands held over their throat ... the signal that shows someone is choking and needs help ...
I scotch taped a Yankees "interlocking NY" logo over that picture after the 2004 ALCS ... lots of yucks ... only stayed up there for a day or two.
Haha Andy. You were only hating on the Yanks because you had nothing better to do in the 20 years the O's didn't make the dance since......losing to the Bombers and young Mr. Maier.
And why be offended by a Yankee fan who apparently knew very little about baseball?
She was so haughty ... heck, we worked well together and she didn't refuse the Arizona Iced Tea.
It's funny, my memories of being in the ballpark when the O's won their three WS championships are so vivid, it is like they happened yesterday.
I'm thankful for those experiences and nobody needs to feel sorry for me ... just wish I hadn't been so hard on Mike Flanagan with the letters I wrote to him (if he even saw them) ... if I'd known the guy was going to end his life ... when that news broke, man, that really put sports in its proper perspective for me.
Did I tell you I went to Camden Yards for Jeter's last game there? ... Got to see the Baltimore part of the year-long tribute tour ... it was nice.
We had fun in the early 00s (what do you call that decade, anyway) before downsizing and corporate restructuring broke up the "party."
I remember clipping a back-page headline from the Daily News that read in big type ANDY IS DANDY ... referring to a game Pettitte pitched ... I discarded the picture of Pettitte and just posted the headline on my wall...
modest, aren't we? ... was the comment I got.
Well, I still respected Mike Mussina, even though he went to "the dark side."
Buck got things turned around, that's pro sports for you, a former Yankee righted the ship, got it going back in the right direction.
Oh yeah, watched that whole Jeffrey Mayer game on YES NETWORK recently, it was on in late December on Yankees Classics.
There was Raffy Palmeiro ... you think I like him NOW???
Seeing Alex Ochoa celebrating on the field after the Angels knocked the Yanks off made the decade for me.
You can blame Metsman for the fact I keep bringing AO into this thread.
He called AO a scrub.
A scrub is a kid who the coach never wants to put into a game ... and when he does, he prays ... oh please, nobody hit the ball to HIM.
Every time the Angels had a late inning lead (and they TRADED for Alex on July 31 at the deadline) ... when they went to the setup man and closer from the bullpen, Alex Ochoa went into the outfield ... and they won the World Series.
That is not a scrub, Metsman.
Andy what I mean is Ochoa isn't worth talking about. He was a role player. Anyone who makes it to the Major Leagues is certainly not a scrub in the literal sense, but who cares about him. There have been thousands of Ochoa type players in the history of the game. No one talks about them.
That's like me bringing up Timo Perez and saying how great he was because he had one season of glory in the 2000 postseason for the Mets... He was a nobody. He's not worth talking about.
Timo caught the last out when the Mets won the pennant in 2000 ... that's a moment, I remember it.
In 2009 I saw Timo playing at Sussex County for the New Jersey Jackals ... Tommy Greene (former WS pitcher with the Phillies who pitched a no-hitter) also later played for the Jackals.
Here's something Alex did that's completely unique..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nippon_Professional_Baseball_players_to_hit_for_the_cycle#mediaviewer/File:HC-Alex-Ochoa.jpg
To be perfectly clear, Tommy Greene pitched in the World Series but his no-hitter was in the regular season. Only Don Larsen, of course, pitched a no-no in the WS.
I like forgotten players, I suppose ... I remember a catch Dave Schneck made for the Mets, last out of a 2-1 win on a ball Mike Schmidt hit with the bases loaded.
Koozman got a complete game win
Of course I wouldn't, Don Larsen was an Oriole, too.
Pretty cool that he was there, at Yankee Stadium, when Cone pitched his perfect-o.
The Hotstove was really heated up in 1955, when Larsen went from the Orioles to the Yankees as part of a 17-player trade.
Larsen, at age 35, went back to the O's in 1965 and pitched real well out of the bullpen for a team that won 94 games but could not keep pace with the red-hot Twins that year. That's the summer I got to see him pitch in person ... no perfect game but a couple of perfect innings.
Anytime he got into a game, the announcers always mentioned the perfect game.
John Sterling was an Orioles announcer back in 1965, just 25 years old. He also did the play-by-play for the new NBA team in town, the Bullets.
Wow... what are the Nationals thinking giving Scherzer $210 million... Aside from 2 really good years in 2013 and 2014, he had a pretty high ERA in previous years. He is not worth Clayton Kershaw money...
The 7-year, $210M contract is being paid out over the next 14 years @ $15M per year... so in present day dollars, accounting for inflation, it's equivalent to 7 years-$185M and that's the # that MLB will use in its luxury tax calcs.
So, it's not really Kershaw money; it's somewhere between Zoolander and Cliff Lee money, which he probably rates. Not sure how much value he adds to the Nats, though... their pitching was already amazing; how many Ws will he add? I think they should have spent that money on a couple bats (or one big one). They're spending (wasting?) about $36M on Werth and Zimmerman but they have no other 8-figure salaries on offense. At least not until (if) they resign Bryce Harper... he's a UFA after next season but is only making $2.5M this year and $5M next year.
Harper only has 3 years of MLB service. He is under control through 2017. And he has yet to prove he's worth big money. He can't stay healthy and his numbers are unimpressive. And just because Scherzer isn't getting all the money at once it's still Kershaw money in terms of overall value.
"it's still Kershaw money in terms of overall value."
No, it's not. Kershaw is making $32M THIS year. Scherzer is only getting $15M with the other $15M deferred until 2023. $15M in 2023 dollars isn't worth $15M today. Pro-rated, the contract works out to about $26M per year, which is what the salary cap hit will be.
As a Nats fan I was thrilled to acquire Sherzer via free agency. We have one of the better arms in the minor leagues in Lucas Giolito, but he is a few years away and had Tommy John surgery once already. With the exception of Michael Taylor and a few other top tier prospects, there is not too much young talent to trade.
The rotation of Scherzer, Zimm, Strasburg, Fister and either Gio or Roarke is tough to beat. My guess is they will shop Strasburg, Gio or Roarke for a bat.
Biased opinion, but don't be surprised if Anthony Rendon is an MVP candidate.
Good to be talking baseball.
D's 4Is that the same Michael Taylor who played for the Lehigh Valley IronPigs like some five years ago?
I've been waiting for him to 'arrive' for some time now.
Harper put on a real power show in the playoffs against San Francisco.
Unfortunately, his teammates did not hit very much in that series... that 18-inning loss was excruciating to watch. Taking Jordan Zimmerman out of that game after he'd been mowing them down for 8 2/3 was a dumb, dumb decision.
... liked the Geico commercial.
He's still getting the same amount of money as Kershaw. It's the same the payouts are just different.
No, not the same Michael Taylor that played for the Iron Pigs. I remember hearing so much talk about him, but he never panned out.
Nats Michael Taylor is 22 or 23 and debuted against the Mets. I think he hit a homerun in his first game.
Metsman, were you in Illinois yesterday?
http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/story/_/id/12200709/money-owed-darryl-strawberry-new-york-mets-won-auction
Are the Phillies trading Cole Hamels? Hearing that there are deals in the works.
Are the O's doing ANYTHING this off season?
Or are they just hoping the next Bobby Grich, Don Baylor, Al Bumbry, and Eddie Murray just suddenly appear from their farm system?
I watched the Mets Hot Stove program last week.... It was essentially an A&E biopic of Michael Cuddyer, lol
Any Matt Harvey predictions? Their pitching staff has great potential with Wheeler, deGrom, Niese, Gee and Colon (think he stuck around). Harvey seems like a wild card this year. Syndergaard should be ready to go this year.
de Grom was interesting last year because he wasn't all that highly regarded as a prospect. He looks legit.
The pitching should be solid D's 4. The question is will the lineup hold up. It could either be pretty good or pretty bad. A lot hinges on health and whether young players take the next step.
Define 'pretty good' Metsman. In comparison to Met lineups of the past few years? Low bar. Compared to the rest of the league? They'll to well to reach average.
If they hit enough, get em on, move em over, drive em in, to win a lot of one-run games, it will be 'pretty good.'
If they leave lots of men on base, strike out constantly, and lose agonizing one-run games in alarming numbers, they will be not so good.
Time will tell,
They may give Lagares a shot at it.
Who knows? He might become the next Paul Blair. Of course, Paulie had some Hall of Famers batting behind him.
Pitchers and catchers report this week (Wednesday for the Buccos... YMMV) and the first workout for position players is a week from tomorrow. The true "first sign of spring" is almost upon us... and not a moment too soon, lol.
Edwin Romond, a local poet and English teacher right here in Warren County, wrote the following, called "Pitchers and Catchers."
My pal, John, stops to borrow
a set of The Sun Also Rises.
I count them into his arms
then whisper, as if we're brothers,
"Pitchers and catchers on Friday"
and his grin assures me he can hear
the smack of sliders into stiff mitts.
At lunch the principal stops scolding
a boy for throwing a meatball and reminds me,
"Friday, pitchers and catchers"
and I see rookies in uniforms
numbered three times their ages
next to nervous non-roster vets
who wind up and hope their new knucklers will be enough.
But here the windows frame only empty trees and mounds of snow
and I wish I didn't have to teach "To Build a Fire"
when I'm yearning for sunny fields
in Lauderdale and Tampa,
with warm baseball chatter and the necessary dreams
of being better than before.
I'll read the sports page on Friday
for the first time since October
and pass these icy days tossing the words
"Pitchers and Catchers"
to friends who are old enough to know
and young enough to believe
that winter again would come to this.
That's some big-league writing, eh?
If I were setting the Mets lineup, it would look like:
Lagares (R)
Murphy (L)
Wright (R)
Duda (L)
Cuddyer (R)
Granderson (L)
d'Arnaud (R)
Tejada/Flores (R)
Certainly not great, but you have to work with what you have, lol.
Lagares is going to have to be the second coming of Garry Maddox or Paul Blair to make up for those old timers on the corners.
We all know the Kiner comment about Maddox... the earth being covered two thirds by water and one third by Garry Maddox ... the players used to call him the Secretary of Defense.
Dave Parker had a real funny quote when the Phils had Maddox in center and Bake McBride in right, and tried to hide Luzinski in left. He called them "two greyhounds and a pig" and The Bull, to his credit, laughed it off and took no offense.
Earl Weaver simply used to say Blair was "in a class all by himself." They used to say he and Brooks played defense "like they came down from a higher league."
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