First-time Home Buyers Looking For Advice.
After months of searching and viewing homes all over Northern NJ I think we finally found a home in which were really interested in. The home is a 3bed 2bath Bi-level property built in 1963. The former homeowners went through foreclosure and the home is now owned by the bank who is selling it for $159,900, we took a look at the property this past Saturday and it looks really solid, all appliances are missing and fixtures but the cabinets in the kitchen are new as well as the bathroom.
There are a few other projects to take on in this home but for the most part it's just a lot of painting. We plan on getting inspections done on this home as well as getting the septic looked at because it is well water.
I guess my question is for homeowners of older homes, what can we expect from a home built in this time period?
I'm assuming maybe asbestos may be present (it does have popcorn ceilings), should we be concerned about plumbing and piping...What has been your experience buying/owning an older home?
At this price id really hate to miss out!
HalloweenbabyCheck the ages on your hot water source and heating source. Both of the homes we bought were older and both times the furnaces needed replacing not too long after moving in. Also, check the roof, how old and how much of a warranty is left on it if it has been recently replaced. Check your foundation for any water marks or signs of seepage/leaking in the basement. Those can be a major fix if the house settled and the grading was done improperly.
ladeevee If you have specific concerns with the roof, septic, or foundation, get an EXPERT on those systems. A home inspector will just tell you if you have loose railings, leaky faucets, etc.
Mark Mc. Absolutely everything you need should be done by the home inspection company. All the foundation check, the heating system, the plumbing, asbestos testing if needed, flooring, roof, etc.
At that age asbestos is likely not to be much of an issue, the ceiling may or may not contain it. If it does, you can always have the seller be responsible for a contractor to take it down. More than that, lead paint can be an issue in that era. If you don't have kids that might eat chips, it's usually not much of a worry, but it's something you should know about. The only real thing that was different for me in my first house that was a similar age was the insulation in the walls was old and not very good. But all of that was explained to me by the inspector.
Much more than anything structural, if anything can quickly tell you not to buy the house it will be the well water testing and the septic inspection. If either have issues, don't go near it. But that has nothing to do with the age of the house. Same thing is true of a home just built.
GC "Absolutely everything you need should be done by the home inspection company."
Home inspections only report on what is "visible", typically from the ground. Sure, you'll see a curling shingle or a nail pop, but a roofer can climb up and check the flashing or look for soft spots and snoop around the attic looking for water damage.
Same thing with foundations. Their notes may say "hairline crack in block" but a foundation guy will be able to tell you what is settling and if it's a concern or repairable.
Overall home inspections are just the "high level" overview and the inspector absolves themselves from any claim even if the house falls apart the next day. I would take an inspection report as a list of "to do" items once moved in, but when you're talking about potential repairs that could cost $20 - 30K, spend a few hundred to get a roofer and septic guy out there before you sign the contract (unless there's proof that those systems are relatively new).
I think a lot depends on the inspector. First, I don't know any good ones that would even touch a septic inspection. That's always a separate animal just like the water or radon tests. If your inspection company didn't climb up on the roof, and go in the attic then they're no inspector. I do understand most inspectors will only be able to bless a foundation if they see nothing wrong. But any good one that can't do that quickly will refer you to a separate inspector.
Our inspector does everything but the septic.
He does the testing for radon and termites as well as foundation and roof.
Halloweenbaby - What Mark Mc is pointing out about very casual inspection is very valid. Sure, the inspector may "do" those things, but how thoroughly? More than anything else as advice I would give before buying is to choose the inspector well. You need someone who will be relentlessly meticulous. There was a report on another thread about someone who had an inspector show up without a ladder. That's no inspector to me. If you haven't gotten it already, you might want to get a sample report from the inspector and see just what you're really getting.
Would it be good to go with an appointed inspector from the realtor or go out in search of our own?
Out of the many inspectors I've dealt with through the years, I would recommend Pillar to Post. They do an amazingly thorough and detailed job.
Positively 10,000% on your own. The realtor has a built in reason not to find anything that would nix the sale. Don't go there. There's a past HL thread on inspection companies. It's two years old but I don't think anything has changed. You'd be worried if inspection companies came and went that quickly:
http://www.hackettstownlife.com/forum/421214
I would stick to city water and sewer. Sometimes foreclosures aren't that great of a buy imo. I would also buy the best location you can afford for future resale.
Ok, we planned on going out on our own to find one (which is what we did).
Just wanted to double check.
Thank for all the great information!
D-ManPV Another quick bit that I thought of that might seem obvious - by all means don't just let the inspector go out, do his work, and get the report back. You want to be by the inspector's side the whole time during the whole process. Let him explain the things he's looking for and what he doesn't see as well as what he does. You'll learn so much more yourself that way and you get to ask questions. It's surprising how many buyers don't even participate in the inspection.
'At that age asbestos is likely not to be much of an issue, the ceiling may or may not contain it'. Not exactly. There can still be many products from that era that had asbestos in them from floor tiles, pipe insulation, to HVAC ducts. My last house was built in 1964 and had floor tiles and ceramic HVAC ducts that had it. If there's any question at all, I would ask for a certified Asbestos remediation company to look at it.
As for septic inspection, you can't beat Bob Rutan out of PA. It's all he does.
http://www.rkrutan.com/
MeisterNJ Thanks for link and all the great advice!
We'll definitely take everything into consideration.
Good luck Halloween Baby. And happy belated birthday!
Be sure to go over everything carefully, as many posters have stated. Don't just blindly accept the inspection report. Question it. Go around with the inspector.. I made the mistake of not asking for a credit for the driveway for our current house. Needed replacement after two years.
Sounds like you are ahead of the game.
Jerseycash5 I'm not that worried about it being well water having a septic, I grew up in an old home where we had a well and never had an issue. As long as everything is up to date and no issues I don't mind that is. And it would be nice not to have that water bill. This foreclosure in my opinion is a great investment, not only is It well prices but that taxes are capped because it is located in a private lake community.
I just went through this process for the 1st time last April. My husband and I were looking to buy an old Victorian in Washington that did need some repair. When the inspector came, I stayed glued by his side and asked a million questions. Good thing I did because every time I asked a question he said "OH yeah that's a good one" or seemed to realize he missed something and noted it down. He didn't take any pictures, which I wish he had. He also didn't want to climb on the roof or near the roof due to a bad back, so he used binoculars. In the end and after 3 nightmarish months (not bc of the inspector), we didn't go through w/the house because our mortgage company on closing day (yes on closing day) decided to change their mind and told us we had to paint the house BEFORE we bought it, which would have been a $20,000+ job. It is a long and frustrating process, but we had an amazing real estate agent who helped us and even asked the inspector a lot of questions herself. Make sure to do your research on inspectors because we didn't and I ended up with someone that I feel needed more guidance from me, a 28 year old 1st time home buyer, then he should have.
sunshinenj At that age asbestos IS an issue. it was used a lot then, you can see it most likely in 9"x9" floor tiles and their mastic, pipe insulation, window caulk, plaster, joint compound to give a few examples. pipe insulation, plaster or joint compound would be the main building material issues because those are the most friable (which means fibers can be released into the air the easiest. however both joint compound and plaster, when they contain asbestos, are normally very, very low levels (5% or less of a sample). pipe insulation is a different story, but unless its in the basement or attic you normally wont come in contact with it, and in both of those cases you can always encapsulate (cover/seal) it so that it doesn't get hit. however if suspect materials are found before you buy, I believe the home owner would have to get rid of it I believe, or have it tested to prove that its not asbestos. My aunt had to have an asbestos abatement done on some pipes in her house when she went to sell it because it was noted during a house inspection. (and just to explain, I work for an environmental company and have been doing asbestos inspections for the last 10 years.)
Shelly Hey, if you like it, buy it. You say 1963 is old, I say new....... Perspective.... Like are you living there forever, flippin it, somewhere in between. It's all perspective.
Personally, to aid my perspective, I check the basement for water, note the age of everything everyone noted above, calculated the costs of repair, add it to the price and figure it I still want it. I've had 50-year old roofs, 20-year pipes that lasted 40, and a new porch I replaced in five years. But I hate wet basements, can be impossible to remedy, but it's personal with me. I figure everything else can be fixed. But cheaper stuff, like builder grade windows, I figure I will be replacing pretty soon if I plan to stay. Some things are weird too, like an outdated electric box (and I have replaced 1963 ones now deemed unsafe) is cheap, but if you can't do it yourself, labor is a nice chunk. Porches look small, have no walls, but cost as much as rooms.
I agree, walk with the inspector, each one notes something different which should tell you something and have yet to catch what I know it true when they have inspected houses I have been selling. I would even walk with a good one.
Good luck.
mistergoogle Go to home Depot get a pro lab asbestos test wear a mask and gloves pick a piece of it off and send it back to them as it states in the directions. An inspector will charge 200 bucks for it when he's doing the same thing for 30 fyi..
Asbestos is only an issue if it becomes airborne and is breathed in. The negative effects of asbestos are cumulative, therefore if you have repeated inhalation exposure over long periods of time you'd be likely to have problems with asbestos.
Homeowners working on a house built in the sixty's will likely have minimal exposure even though floors and siding typically contain asbestos. Take precautions removing old floors and removing old siding, of course, but don't panic about it. People have been living in these houses since they were built, so that's a lot of people living in close proximity to these materials. Given that asbestos related diseases are primarily seen in folks who have had long term, repeated exposure over the course of forty years, predominately occupational related, the threat of short term exposure (especially if it's a one time deal) is quite minimal IMO. Still, take precautions like wearing gloves and a mask if you're doing demolition type work when the exposure would happen. Otherwise, the real threat is extremely minute.
justintime That is why I mentioned friable asbestos as being the kind to really care about, because that kind is the most easy to have fibers become airborn. As for the mask, if you're going to wear one make sure it has the correct filter, otherwise it won't do any good. And while it is true that long term exposure ups the likelyhood of asbestos diseases, there is no threshold limit as to how much you can breathe in before you are no longer safe from not getting a disease. Length of exposure, amount of fibers breathed in, smoking habits, and other factors play into it, and you won't see signs for years, the latency period is 10-20 years.
Either way, this was all just FYI info. Unless the asbestos-containing building material is damaged, even if it's there you should be fine. Just wanted to name stuff to look for if you were interested in looking.
Also if the house has oil heat, inspect the oil tank, and be very wary if it's an underground tank. My moms house had one and it was found to be leaking...big mess and a log of money to clean that up. Good luck!!
All good points Shelly.
And thanks for pointing out about underground oil tanks being an area where buyers should make a point to investigate. I happen to be very uncomfortable with them.
Thanks everyone for your input!
Today we are going to put an offer in on the home, thankfully it is NOT an underground oil tank but we still plan on getting it looked at. Also going to ask if we can get the insurance claims from the previous homeowners from our realtor just to see what we might be getting ourselves into.
Definitely get an inspection. But more importantly is find out if the taxes, utilities and other things are paid up. Often, the banks simply don't pay those things and the municipalities and utilities let it go. If so, the new owner (you) may be responsible for all of that. Same thing with knowing who owns the house; it may or may not be the bank. You don't say if you have a realtor or not, but buying a foreclosure isn't the same as buying from an owner. Make sure you know what you're getting and getting into.
Bluecat013 The septic will have to be inspected by a septic company not the house inspector. Also in NJ they require that potential (this is new in the last few years) to pay to have the septic pumped out. Doesn't matter how recently it has been done either, we were buying a house in 2012 that the septic was literally just pumped and they forced us to pay for that.
Just beware that inspectors don't always find everything. We just moved last month to a our house (less than 10 years old) and the inspector missed a lot. Within the first 2 weeks we had to replace dishwasher and range. Thankfully we were given a home warranty with the house. Also when we bought our house in 2009 the day after closing there was a huge a leak in the bathroom. Inspector couldn't see the pipes since their was not opening. Apparently the previous owner had a leak and was too cheap to fix it the right way and decided masking with tons of duct tape was enough.
Mommyof3 I had one good inspection company and they stood behind their work - there was something missed and the owner took care of fixing it himself.............I had another mediocre inspection - so be sure you find someone with good recommendations who will stand behind their work ---
5catmom Just beware if the house over wintered last year vacant, chances are you will have numerous plumbing issues when they finally put the water on. Also if the home has been left vacant through hot & cold times there could be dangerous mold in the walls as well. First test of the home should be for mold because that could cost thousands to remedy. Good Luck!
GMmom The quality of one home inspector to another is pretty amazing. When we bought our first house we used the inspector recommended by the realtor (we didn't know any better) who basically rubber stamped it. He told us about a broken heating element in the jacuzzi tub, that was about it... Fortunately the house was in damn good shape, so we ended up not getting burned by that. When we went to purchase our next home it was a little different...
I scoured Angieslist to find somebody who would actually give us the information we wanted, and since we were moving 'out to the country', there we things I had no idea about whatsoever (propane, septics, etc.). I found a guy whose website pretty much explained that he cost more than everybody else because everybody else did an inferior job, but you were going to get what you paid for, and he had the reviews to back it up. So I went with him.
Our realtor was confused when he explained that the inspection would take roughly 8 hours. We really loved the house, and were overpaying slightly but the house and the property were perfect. During the inspection we found out (among other things) that the furnaces had been installed improperly and likely had cracks in their heat exchangers (although he couldn't commit to that fact without opening up the machines and that was out of the scope of what we were doing). That all the 2nd floor windows were installed improperly without enough clearance for expansion/contraction and that was preventing them from closing completely. That the flashing around the windows was improper and allowing water behind the siding. And more and amore and more. I followed the guy and talked with him about everything as he checked out things and he was more than happy to explain what he was looking for and why. We ended up not buying the house because the owner refused to reduce the price saying it was "as-is", despite the fact that we would have to replace or reinstall all the windows on the 2nd floor or freeze our asses off (the owner would go away for the winter).
A few months later we found another property we liked with a house that should have been a tear-down. I almost thought it was a waste of time to hire the guy again, since we knew we were going to have to gut the house no matter what, but decided better to be safe than sorry. Again, it was worth every penny and more. You'd think that upon telling the guy that we were going to rip the house down anyway, he might try and bypass certain parts of the inspection, simply because they wouldn't matter shortly, but he was just as thorough as the first time. The most amazing part was when he walked into the basement, took one look around, and said "you didn't say there was an underground oil tank", which confused me because I was staring at the two freestanding oil tanks in the corner of the basement. He then pointed out the tiny supply line cut flush with an exterior wall, partially concealed by plywood behind an electrical panel, and stated that if/when they dug up the outside tanks, that would have been removed, and that instead they were likely abandoned in place. After some more investigating we found out that the owner had conveniently forgotten to mention that to the realtor, even though it was required by law.
The only thing this guy wouldn't inspect were the septics, which he subbed out to a guy I'm now friends with, who did an equally amazing job both inspecting the septic systems and explaining how they were supposed to work (and ultimately replacing the system in the second house).
Our realtor thought we were nuts both times, when the guy metered just about every receptacle and noted a couple that had an excessive voltage drop under load, or when he was taking moisture readings in the drywall in the basement, or when crawling around the attic in sweltering heat trying to figure out just where the furnace condensate drain was going. Our realtor tried to explain that the owners were never going to fix some of the things he was finding. In the end I think she realized it was more about me knowing what I was walking into, rather than beating them around on the price or anything.
In any case, if you ever need to know what you're walking into, the guy's name is Kyle Kubs and his company is Benchmark Home Inspections. They are damned expensive but worth every freaking penny!
Brendan There is a lot of good Info on this thread. I bought all my homes and self inspected being a jack of all trades. We don't exist much anymore.The last one I sold the buyer had it done. I was impressed but there was nothing I didn't disclose on the forms. It leaves no room for dickering price by telling the truth. I fought with my Realtor over price to ask and told him the first buyer was a waist of time. Had another buyer in a week and said that day the house is sold. I was right on all counts. I guess that's why I am still invited back to the old homesteads.
Old Gent When we were looking for our current house we were walking around with the realtor at what seemed to be a very nice house. Walk into the basement and right at the foot of the stairs were two large fans. The type they use when trying to dry out a basement or air out a smoke filled house. I asked the Realtor why they were there. Her face turned white and she couldn't answer. I suspected moisture. We didn't buy that one. Amazing what people will leave lying around when prospective buyers are looking at their house.
We are looking to buy a house. One of the most frustrating things.
How long did it take you to find a house? Or how long have you been looking?
fujixt1 Many centuries ago, but must have been 13 walk throughs so you can imagine how many we looked at via the flash reports.
Hello everyone (again)!
So we found a house. It is in attorney review.
We have a home inspector lined up.
My question:
1) Is the seller responsible to leave the septic and well water in some sort of minimum standard?
2) I know I would have to pay separately for a septic inspection... does that also apply for well water quality?
BIG BIG THANK YOU!
fujixt1 - 5catmom is right to make sure your advisers (inspector, agent, lawyer, etc) are all in the loop with those questions. The sellers could be held accountable if they know something is broken and don't tell you. But when it comes to septic and water, it would be real hard to live there if it weren't working. Otherwise how well it works and how long it will last is what you have your inspectors tell you. Sometimes sellers will fix things, sometimes they rather give you $ and let you fix it.
As for who pays, that's generally you. However, it's NJ and everything is negotiable. When it's a buyer's market you can get away with things you wouldn't normally be able to.
I believe all mortgage companies require a septic inspection. If it doesn't pass, it most likely will need to be repaired before the mortgage is approved. NJ requires well water to be tested prior to a sale, at buyers expense, but negotiable. If it does not meet set standards, it is up to the buyer to decide if they want to live with it. Costs to meet standard are negotiable.
maja I think the buyer arranges and pays for all inspections but don't bother unless you have them in your contract. Nothing really to gain otherwise.
As to which ones are required, depends by who. Both the state and your mortgage holder may require things especially the mortgage holder. But the mortgage part is really not law, just what you need to do to get the money, and I have seen some pretty funny stuff asked for.
Inspections and searches can include: Termite (pest) inspection Land survey, Title search, Well testing, Septic certification, Flood search, Radon testing, Smoke detector certification, Certificate of occupancy, and the famous home inspection of which you are beholden to the value and skill of your inspector since they are on the hook for basically nothing. Home inspections might cover lead paint, toxic mold, asbestos, and even off-site conditions like pending developments, construction, or toxic waste dumps. And don't forget "stigmatized property" inspections..... What if you have ghosts, murders, or even a Meghan's law liver in the neighborhood. Sellers do not have to advertise, but, by law, must confess if asked, from both the seller and the agent. (that's why as a seller you say nothing, say nothing, to your agent especially stupid questions like "what happens if the house is haunted by a serial killer who buried half eaten people in the basement?").
Whenever possible, each of these items, including stigmatized property, need to be in the contract as potential deal busters. The Stigmatized Property one can be like "owner has been asked........" That way, if things turn sour, you can either walk on the deal with no financial pain or have contractual reasons to lobby for a better price.
Then again, if you want it, just determine what you want to pay and buy it. This stuff can all be fixed.
Hi All - does anyone know how much a Certificate of Occupancy costs in Allamuchy, NJ? I'm buying a short sale and in NJ the buyer is required to obtain the Cert. of Occupancy on short sales. Thanks!
noogie21 Not sure but pretty certain you have to have a fire inspection - smoke detectors etc before getting it - tried to find it for you on the municipal site - no luck--- a phone call to town should give you the answer
The fire inspection is the same as the certificate of occupancy. According to the web site is $20.
http://ecode360.com/14459312
Compared to the cost of the home, it's not really anything to worry about,
Some additional things to think about. If you're required to obtain a CO, it means that you not only have to pay the fee--you're probably responsible for passing the tests. Thus, if the home does not have the required, functioning smoke detectors and fire extinguisher, you will fail the test and fail to get a CO. So, before paying for the inspection and scheduling it, you should make sure the house meets the required code. If you're not sure what it us, try some internet searches and/or call the Fire Inspector.
In addition, if the house has hard-wired (AC-powered) smoke detectors, then the AC power in the house must be on, during the inspection.
Finally, though you're probably already aware of it, if the home has a well, then I believe that a water test may also be required, prior to the transfer of title.
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