20-year-old hiker found perished in West Milford (bear involvement)
Here is an article: http://www.dailynewsen.com/breaking/hiker-20-is-found-dead-in-west-milford-nature-area-h2669044.html
The article mentions bears, and that no foul play is suspected (meaning his hiking friends). And I've heard people mentioning (not in the news yet) that his body was found mauled by a bear, and that may have been what "got" him. Obviously, these people may have connections or know something I don't, or they might just be wrong. But police are also telling people to "be careful when hiking in the area." Wondering why they would do that unless there was something to watch out for? And how the heck does a 20-year-old go out for a hike on a beautiful Sunday and wind up dead? He was only missing for a short time. Absolutely tragic.
In any case, thoughts for the family of this poor young man (SO young). And I sincerely hope this is not a case of a bear becoming aggressive. Would this be the first case for New Jersey of a human being attacked/killed by a bear *IF* this is what happened?
Rebecka 
botheredbyuu2 
Nosila A shame for sure. I wonder if they were inexperienced hikers and that's why they ran? Rule #1 - never run, animals chase things that run.
Calico696 Calico, that is what I thought. The running away may have sparked the bears natural instinct to chase.
The only other things I thought of would be a mama or wondering if bears can be more dangerous when it gets closer to hibernation????
Either way how horrible for all, family and friends of the victim, and the poor folks that were with him.
littlelu review the rules,
don;t use perfume, or scented hair sprays or cologne when walking in the woods, these scents are an attraction, you got to out as natural as possible, don't bring sandwiches that smell, (like peanut butter, or sub sandwiches, the food aromas will attract bears, and bees)
don't run away from bears, back away slowly while facing them and not making eye contact.
don't make eye contact, it's a challenge to them, but keep them in your view, don;t turn your back either.
if you have something that makes noise , make some noise while doing it, (like banging on a metal pot, not always possible i know)
if you have a sandwich drop it and while still backing away , the bear will stop to investigate and you get more time to develop more space between you
did i miss anything?
BrotherDog I can't believe the rumors I was hearing last night turned out to be true. Still having a hard time wrapping my head around the fact that there was a fatal bear attack in New Jersey.
Has this ever been recorded in our State before?
RIP Darsh Patel.
Very sad. We've been watching "So Do You Think You'd Survive" lately and they just did bear encounters. Make yourself as big as possible was another recommendation besides making noise. The other week I took the trash down to the end of the driveway- long winding wooded driveway- and the dog barked her "alarm bark"from inside the house. Within minutes of walking in, a 200lb-er came through. They are so quiet for their size.
Blackcat 
RU 
JrzyGirl88 Brother Dog, I think you covered it well!
~~ thanks for the reminder ~~
I leave that info in the car and review it before going hiking just to focus, and to remember to attach the bell to my beltloop.
redmink1 "So sad... 5cat we are staying out of the woods!!" - Jrzy
I knew it was just a matter of a few more posts before this type of sentiment started up. Please don't alter your life for one bear attack. If you enjoy the woods, continue to do so. Just be alert and know what to do if a situation were to arise.
I wonder if it had something to do with part of the preserve being fenced in. This is not the first bear attack in that same area. Something is going on up there IMHO. I'm in the woods literally on a daily basis (except during high hunting season, because a) I don't want to get shot and b) if hunters want to hunt, I don't want to bother them or spook their targets). I'm personally not scared to keep hiking in the woods, and have seen both coyote and bear. But this incident certainly gives me pause, and I'm going to order a new can of bear spray. I do generally have one with me.
Just remember that in NJ you cannot have the usual Bear Repellant used out west. NJ restricts you to less than an ounce of pepper spray. If you are "caught" with a larger can it is considered a felony.
The preserve this occurred on does not allow any hunting of any kind. It is over browsed by deer and overrun with bears. Not exactly a wise place to hike if unfamiliar with how to deal with a bear encounter. They would have been better off standing their ground together, than running away which is a typical prey response and elicits predatory behavior in bears (coyote and dogs too).
Condolences to the family.
Agust This is I think a rarity in NJ. I hike all the time and bears usually run away from you. That being said I do carry a hiking pole (sharp end) and pepper spray. Sad to hear this happened to this young man.
A good dayOk, so I'll carry my pocket-sized device to protect me from a 400-lb bear, Agust. ;-)
In the event I happen to be carrying something bigger which would actually protect me, it's not a felony, it's a $100 fine and a disorderly persons charge. Maybe I'll take the risk.
It's a felony if you are a big enough idiot to spray bear spray at a human, which frankly makes sense because the stuff is that potent.
BTW - I am hiking on my own property. I do not carry my (pocket-sized, of course) bear spray off the property.
From NJ regulation 26:39-6:
i. (1) Nothing in N.J.S.2C:39-5 shall be construed to prevent any person who is 18 years of age or older and who has not been convicted of a crime, from possession for the purpose of personal self-defense of one pocket-sized device which contains and releases not more than three-quarters of an ounce of chemical substance not ordinarily capable of lethal use or of inflicting serious bodily injury, but rather, is intended to produce temporary physical discomfort or disability through being vaporized or otherwise dispensed in the air. Any person in possession of any device in violation of this subsection shall be deemed and adjudged to be a disorderly person, and upon conviction thereof, shall be punished by a fine of not less than $100.
The state even disarms you against wildlife... So it's your decision. carry bear spray and commit a crime, or comply with the law and potentially have a bear rip your face off.
And if you've EVER been convicted of a crime, you can't carry ANY pepper spray no matter how small the container.
Mark Mc. Once while hiking in DWG a ranger and I were talking and he noticed my tiny pepper spray. He said it wouldn't really be effective in deterring a bear if the bear was aggressive.
"He said it wouldn't really be effective in deterring a bear if the bear was aggressive."
Personal (pocket size) pepper spray won't do crap against a bear. There is specifically "bear spray" for that purpose. Look up UDAP.
Also, one note to my post above (about the crime)... you can't even possess the larger bear spray canisters for use if you occasionally go camping in other states. Mere possession is a crime in NJ, whether you actively use it or not.
I always have my pepper spray in my hand and my dog with me on the trails.
Damn, I missed the episode with a mountain lion encounter. I remember seeing the signs regarding them in Cuyamaca Park in San Diego.
Yes, Mark Mc. - it is a crime to possess, but not a felony as Agust stated. I actually spoke with our local law enforcement a number of years ago about carrying bear spray while hiking on my own property, and he said it would be disorderly persons and a $100 fine. And I asked him what he would do, and he simply said - "use common sense and be safe." Interpretable any number of ways.
Personally, I believe that if one of the five hikers had been carrying bear spray yesterday, a death would have been prevented. And I'm not talking about a pocket spray.
Interesting that it's a preserve that does not allow hunting, Agust. Wonder if that will change in light of this incident.
I believe the last confirmed killing of a person by a black bear was in 1868 in Sussex County. You have far more to fear from Whitetail deer then you do bears Whitetail deer [ bucks] have attacked and kill far more people than black bears one of the most dangerous times to be in the woods is late October through November mating season for Whitetail's bucks get very very aggressive especially to women http://youtu.be/rBC37i86Rm0
I just learned that the kids who got attacked while camping last year up in the same area ...was made up and not true
Sometimes these reports about bears that stress their danger to people increase in frequency the closer to hunting season we get. Not related to this terrible death of this young man. I feel for his family. It it is true that we live in bear country
And need to manage the garbage cans and bird seed feeders to avoid incidents close to home.
Never understood why we aren't required to have bear proof garbage cans/dumpsters. Like out west.
Philliesman We also need to manage the ever increasing population of black bears in NJ.
The bear density is too high for the land available to sustain a healthy and natural population.
Just don't understand why his friends left. I would have thought 5 against one bear could have had a very different ending. Maybe some injuries, but if the other four beat the bear with sticks or whatever they had MAYBE this young man would still be alive. I would never desert my friend.
Ms Fishy oldred, I never would have believed it about the deer (buck), but then I was chased by one!!! so this is a very true statement.
As far as the bears, we live in NJ so if you are in the woods there is a good chance you may see one. Just be prepared as others have stated.
I agree Ms. Fishy the boys should have stayed together, but I guess you never know how you will react when you are scared./
JRT I have hiked in many deeply wooded areas..alone and I always carry a whistle and blow it sporadically to let the bears know that I'm in the area.
Honestly, I've been more afraid of bumping into a stranger than any animal. I am the one intruding on their home/territory and that is the chance I take.
Very sorry for Darsh and his family.
positive I've seen one bear in all my years in new jersey - and it was busy rummaging thru garbage - really beautiful creature ----I wonder why all the hysteria..........awful that a hiker lost his life - but such a rare occurance - I agree with positive - some strangers are more trouble than bears will every be to us - just follow the Hackettstown in the News thread
5catmom So, I will probably get torn into by even bringing this up but my friend is a friend of a reporter who covered this story and apparently there is more to the story than the press wants to release out of respect for the family. For example...let's say that the bear was provoked by some kids who were just uneducated and did not know the consequences of there actions. I've seen on comments ppl bashing bears and they should all be wiped out bc they are a threat now but lets keep an open mind. This is a RARE occurrence. I hope the whole story comes out so we can all learn from this.
villani I was discussing this with one of my peeps earlier and we both thought that the bear may have been provoked. If true then protect the family from what ? Better to educate the ignorant not to taunt a wild animal.
villani, I thought that this incident seemed very bizarre, and wondered if food played a factor.
I wondered if there was something else we did not know about yet. If there is another fact it should be shared. Bears should be respected as should all wildlife.
News I heard said bear was following them and they ran in different directions. They are thinking this young guy fell and hurt himself and couldnt continue and the bear attacked. When they found him, the bear was standing guard near body. They tried to make noise to get him to run but he became more aggressive, so they shot him.
"They tried to make noise to get him to run but he became more aggressive, so they shot him."
In most any other state that bear would have been ventilated long before law enforcement got there (and hopefully before it hurt anybody).
"When they found him, the bear was standing guard near body. They tried to make noise to get him to run but he became more aggressive, so they shot him."
No way. They would have been looking for the bear in addition to the hiker. Any bear who has attacked (and unfortunately, tasted) a human would be an animal to be dispatched in the eyes of the authorities. They would not have been trying to make noise to get him to run.
@villani - I haven't heard that, but it might explain the attack. I would wonder, however, if this is not a case of anti-bear-hunt people trying to plant a rumor to disparage the hikers. From everything I've read, and my "sources" so to speak, the bear was actively stalking the young men, and they were not doing anything to provoke it. Taunting does not seem to fit the profile here, either. These were not teenage punks at a zoo, these were nice young men in college out for a hike on a Sunday. Anyone with half a brain does not provoke a bear in the wild. I am having a hard time believing it, but *certainly* you may have sources who know the truth. What a shame that would be if it is the case.
@5catmom - I haven't seen hysteria at all. If anything, I'm surprised this isn't getting more coverage on the news! A fatal bear attack in New Jersey is kind of... well, mind-blowing. To be honest, with the number of bear in this State, though, I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often.
I'm a little disturbed that someone would try to blame the victim when there is no evidence that anything was done to provoke this situation. I'm sorry, but a friend of a friend of a friend of a reporter is not a credible source. Thoughts and prayers go out to Mr. Patel's family and friends.
Gadfly I don't think anyone is blaming the victim. I feel very sorry for his family but we can't automatically assume nothing was done to provoke the situation. Let's all wait to hear what the final outcome is.
lily pad First death in 150 years. 300 lber so a pretty good size. Guessing no provoke, just not the best idea to run. Not 100% sure the bear did it, still examining. Bear was about 4 years old, no tag, no reports of bad behavior. Bear was "guarding" the body, but it might have been the granola bars.
Tests should be done late week.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/09/23/rutgers-student-believed-killed-by-new-jersey-first-fatal-bear-attack-in-150/
http://www.nj.com/passaic-county/index.ssf/2014/09/bear_that_killed_edison_man_had_no_history_of_aggression_officials_say.html
mistergoogle To tell you the truth this story is just not made any sense to me . I have had countless encounters with bears over the last 10 years and in every encounter the black bear has turned and ran the other way and sometimes I was less than 10 feet away this story does not make sense
Police are looking for two other hikers that were in the same area as the group in which one of the men was killed.
http://www.nj.com/middlesex/index.ssf/2014/09/fatal_bear_attack_police_seek_2_hikers_who_saw_rutgers_students_before_deadly_encounter.html#incart_story_package
I agree with oldred. I hike 1500-2000 miles each year in northern NJ, NY (Gunks, Catskill, & Adirondacks), Vermont (Greens), NH (Whites), and a bit in Connecticut, MA, and ME. Bears have always run away the instant they become aware of my presence. I do a LOT of bushwhacking (hiking off-trails), especially in the Catskills, and have seen many bears throughout the years ..... and all of them running away.
The one exception was 8 or 9 years ago in Sterling Forest, and looking back now, it was a comical experience. It was windy, and I was climbing down the firetower, and I suddenly saw a bear approaching the picnic table (probably smelled some scraps of food from a previous hiker or perhaps knew that careless humans leave food/garbage there regularly). Maybe due to the wind, the bear did not hear or smell me as I came down. I kept thinking that the bear will run away any second. As I approached the final set of stairs, I decided to hit the railing with my hiking pole to make some noise so I wouldn't startle the bear too much by my presence. The bear apparently didn't know exactly where the sound came from, and ran directly toward the bottom of the firetower. I was only about 5 or 6 steps from the bottom at this point. The bear stopped at the bottom step, looked up and finally noticed me. Our eyes met, and I swear his eyes suddenly got huge with surprise, and he turned and ran so fast it reminded me of the cartoons when an animal is running so fast the back legs look like wheels! :-)
I feel terrible for the victim in this case, but I am sure there is more to this story. However, it doesn't matter if we ever learn the truth. At the end of the day, this poor soul is gone, and his family & friends are grieving.
I'll still go hiking and bushwhacking, often alone, without hesitation. 150 years without a person being killed by a bear in NJ is just one statistic that proves you are much safer in the woods than driving down the street. Your # 1 weapon is your brain.
Hikerdude Article on the annual bear hunt written in regard to the recent death.
http://www.nj.com/opinion/index.ssf/2014/09/time_to_go_on_a_bear_hunt_editorial.html#incart_m-rpt-1
Obviously something killed him and the bear was standing not far from the guy. What else could have happened? People reading too much into it, I think.
Have you guys thought about this: what if Darsh were the only one of his hiking group who followed the conventional wisdom and did NOT run?
Regarding the article on bear hunting: I am an animal-loving nut who is also Buddhist and believes that all life is precious. But I tend to agree that this State may need to have bear hunts more often. Sorry for all those I shock for saying this, but in some areas, there is a bear overpopulation. I couldn't possibly bring myself to shoot an animal, but I do thank hunters for controlling the deer population, and I think they may need to be allowed to do a bit more to control the bear population. JMHO.
I have been a hunter my entire life small game waterfowl upland bird and deer. I have never tried black bear hunting and never had any desire to do so. The state wants archery hunting for bears and they are going to use this tragedy as an excuse to start one up
I hope not. NO more bear hunt! I will join the protest again this year at Whittingham check in station.
"The state wants archery hunting for bears and they are going to use this tragedy as an excuse to start one up"
Oh no... bear hunting, just like they do in plenty of other states!
I guess it's more humane to let them compete for limited food and slowly starve to death.
Humane archery as in "I gotz me skillz" and can't help myself I'm so good even though I'm a felon arrogance that dripped blood and suffered in agony on other people's lawns while shooting off arrows in the middle of town towards neighbors humane?
http://www.hackettstownlife.com/forum/463415
If you want a bear season at least do it right.
GC That's ludicrous, Mark.
Show us a bear that died of starvation.
I knew it was only a short matter of time before this incident would spur on the trophy hunters.
What if they were not trying to feed the bear? What if they just took their backpacks with food in them and threw them at the bear? What if they didn't stand around and take pictures of the bear?
I know the young man and the bear would still be alive.
I remember when there were just a few bear up at High Point. When they built Rt 80 and 380 through the swamp in PA, they moved over the river.When they first opened the roads they were getting hit all the time over there.
Old Gent Ever heard of wildlife management, happiest girl?
There is a reason we don't let animal populations grow out of control. It's for the health of the total species by making sure the population is in sync with other resources and human interactions.
Sorry to tell you, that requires killing some of them.
But I guess you know better than countless Rangers and other wildlife experts, because bears are fuzzy and cuddly.
Hate to be rude, but there's no place for bear or deer in NJ; let them all be hunted to small populations. Especially the deer.
Think of it as a training experience, training them to be uber wary of man, woman, and child.
+1 Mark Mc.
MG - there's a place for them, but we do have to control the populations, IMHO.
Maybe we shouldn't build so many houses etc where they live? But why debate this with you folks? You all know what's best.
Sorry this happened to this young man.
I agree the deer population is completely out of control!! It's like I have a herd of deer as pets:) They hang out in my yard, eat, sleep, and don't seem bothered at all by the dogs or me.
5catmom you've only seen 1 bear in Jersey? Wow... I've seen more than that right on Willow grove St. without even entering the woods.
. I used to work in a private home only a few miles away in Green Twsp. and there were 3-5 bears in the yard daily. It was common practice to bang pots and make noise whenever I left at the end of the day. I also knew people that lived in Highland Lakes and the bear in that area can/do go into the homes when they smell food, so I think a bear hunt is quite necessary.
I'm not a hunter, but I think population control is a good thing. Sometimes I wish they had it for stupid people. ;-)
from a researcher studying bears for years and years: http://www.bearstudy.org/website/updates/daily-updates/2506-why-do-black-bears-kill-update-september-23-2014.html
The only thing with bear hunts is that it normally doesn't take out the bears that need to be taken out....People don't normally hunt in towns bc you have to be a certain distance from houses.
So instead they are hunting bears that are deep in the woods not bothering anyone
Nope. So wrong. Bear hunt is not a good thing. Should be discontinued . Love your comment re stupid people.
5catmom, Thank-You for that article - it certainly speaks the truth.
Here it is again:
http://www.bearstudy.org/website/updates/daily-updates/2506-why-do-black-bears-kill-update-september-23-2014.html
The poster who referred to eliminating "stupid" people needs to read it. (unfortunately she needs more than that )
Although the following 17 pages refer to deer, it is all the factual information one needs to realize hunting is wrong.
http://www.aplnj.org/assets/pdf/WildlifeManagementNJ.pdf
Oh, and yes, Mark M, it's all about Wildlife Management !!!!!
I read your article and I stand by my original statement. Population control is a good thing. It is about wildlife management.
As I said before I'm not a hunter, but my husband is. As is his whole family and many friends of mine. They follow all rules and regulations and consume all animals they kill. Can't ask for anything more than that IMO.
If you are not for hunting, that's your choice and right. You are free to voice your opinion and demonstrate by shouting, carrying signs and throwing paint on people in fur coats if that floats your boat.
happiest girl - unfortunately, the information you posted a link to has very little to do with wildlife management; what it IS about is condemning hunting. Please consider the source where you get your information. Perhaps it's a little bit skewed and one-sided?
Love your comment about population control for stupid people, Calico! If only!
aww, poor bambi.
get off your soap box. hunting has been a staple of human existence ever since there were humans. animals kill animals. meat tastes good.
If you really read the article you obviously did not understand what you read.
And no, I have no desire to shout and throw paint on people. There we go again, the "killer's" mentality of attacking, even their own species.
It is the hunter who is aggresive and disrespectful. Compassionate people respect animals and the natural cycle of life.
A bear chased down and killed my goat you can see where he was chasing it and the blood trail then it dragged it over the fence it got stuck in the wire and it ate half of it I got some pics if you bear lovers wana see
So the natural cycle of life is to allow overpopulation, the spread of disease, and stunting forest growth (not to mention the waste of animals killed by cars, etc.) rather than a managed hunting program to keep everything in balance and ensure those animals that are killed are used as nourishment?
http://blog.nature.org/science/2013/08/22/too-many-deer/
Maybe PETA like organizations aren't the best place for objective information when there is plenty of information from actual scientists and natural resource management professionals.
Aggressive and disrespectful? Did you read what I wrote?
My family and friends follow follow every rule and regulation require by the states of NJ and PA. They obtain all the proper licenses and tags for hunting and pay the require fees. They aren't a bunch of rouge yahoos jacking deer in the middle of the night.
Farmer - I'm sorry about your goat. I hope you know that as a farmer you are justified legally to defend your herd by dispatching the vermin involved in pillaging.
happiest - Now you are questioning Rebecka's religious beliefs? You really are a piece of work. I hope your holier than thou attitude doesn't bite you in the a**.
And WHY, exactly, is hunting NOT part of the "natural cycle of life"? What makes a human shooting a deer, or a bear, any different than a cheetah killing a gazelle?
Are humans not animals, and part of the "natural cycle of life" and the "food chain"? Of course they are!
And, of course happiest girl, you are a VEGAN....right?
JeffersonRepub Oh, I know Mark. I doesn't make me any less pissed off though.
Imagine if these people lived in Colonial times. What would they eat? Berries? Hunting has been a way of life since early man.
I bet the majority of these anti-hunters still enjoy tons of meat that gets slaughtered at farms across the Country and sold at Shop Rite.
My question is, what's the difference?
When it comes to eating meat, I actually prefer to eat meat from an animal taken in a hunt, as opposed to eating animals raised in a CAFO. My diet is 95% vegetarian, but I'm given a turkey or two every year by hunters, and 1) it's some of the best tasting meat I've had, 2) it lived a wonderful life. If everyone ate more meat from animals who were hunted, we would have fewer animals in CAFO situations, and that would be a GOOD thing for animals overall, not bad!
Of course, in happiest girl's world, everyone becomes a vegan?? That will happen right after a unicorn comes out from under the rainbow.
Buddhism is about moderation, happiest girl. I do what is right for me, and try to the best of my ability (because I can be very opinionated sometimes!) not to judge others for their beliefs and worldviews. The middle way. I try to stay as far away from extremism as possible. And I'm quite happy, might I add! You seem angry, though.
Everything JR said is spot-on, and this country was indeed founded by hunters and trappers, as Calico mentioned. It's a way of life, it's part of America - a part that you can take or leave, or even be adamantly against... that's the great part about living in a free country.
So one bear kills one human in 150 years in New Jersey and we take that as a justification for a bear hunt? Maybe it was just bad karma for the kid. There's more to this story than meets the eye. Bear hunt equals big bucks for businesses. That seems a little skewed to me.
The bear hunt may/may not be justified regardless of this situation. It's up to the state wildlife management officials to determine what the proper population should be to preserve the health of the species and those that they interact with (other plants, animals, and humans) and act accordingly.
If there is an excess great enough to warrant the logistics of a bear hunt, then it should occur. How awful that businesses will be able to sell the supplies to help accomplish that goal.
You do realize that there will be only so many tags issued to reduce the population in a controlled manner. It won't be open season to eradicate every last one.
For those that are opposed to the bear hunt, Im reposting the artical that Calico posted. REREAD it.
http://www.nj.com/opinion/index.ssf/2014/09/time_to_go_on_a_bear_hunt_editorial.html#incart_m-rpt-1
It talks about WHY the hunt is important.
"New Jersey is a densely-populated state, which has lead to an abundance of food -- namely, garbage -- that allows bears to breed younger and more often and live longer."
'But clearly, the hunts are not just for chest-thumping trophies, as animal rights activists have claimed. We need bears to fear humans; not see them as lunch'.
and...Nosila, perhaps the reason the bears are so close to homes and not in the deeper parts of the woods, is that they are pushed out by larger bears???? Hunt those bears and maybe another will move back into their spot.
Yeah. Let's have the HL hunt. Maybe ask div fish and wildlife if we can rent Whittingham for a day. Keep it controlled.
I guess my point is that there's hardly a place in NJ where I can't see a house. I laugh when folks call our region rural.
We have farms with 8 - 12 foot fences, that's just crazy.
I see very few places in NJ where there's enough room for bear and man to live in such close proximity. I think I am being kind to say thin them to a very small population.
The deer are just like big rats and should be treated as such. If we were really rural, we would never have this bad a deer problem. The farmers would just do the right thing. It is an artificial problem we created ourselves based on our spacious suburban living and lack of fortitude to deal with pestilence that looks cute. We are keeping the pests and loosing our habitat. All sorts of indigenous plant species are being wiped out. Not to mention the plants we all try to grow for food, beauty and to support fauna. I say "save the hosta --- kill some deer!" "Grow butterflies and humming birds, shoot bambi!"
31,000 deer accidents in NJ each year. Average claim = $1,000 plus deductible. Half the bodies lay rotting in the brush, the rest are picked up costing us $1M per year. 400 people injured in NJ each year, 4 people die each year. One of the only beneficiaries of the carnage is Space Farms and how many of us think that should go away too?
It's time to return to the time when seeing a deer is a delight in NJ and not a cause for screaming ----- like if you see a rat.
I'm seeing a lot more bear this year. In the last 3 days I have seen 3 different bear in 3 different spots. I hope the bear hunt is successful thus year. The farmers up by me cannot kill them fast enough!
M & K 
I don't really care if there is a bear hunt or not. I've made it clear many times that I think animals are a food source and nothing more. However, I think the callousness in promoting the killing of bears because there are too many for the environment to support without acknowledging that human encroachment is one of the main reasons for the limited environmental capacity is ridiculous.
Would the animal lovers on this thread who believe in a bear hunt feel the same way about the stray cats and dogs? I see more stray cats and dogs than I see bears (and I've had damage to my cars due to cats scratching them.) How about raccoon? Geese spreading their feces everywhere? Which animals are OK to hunt and which are not?
emaxxman emaxx - I assume the short answer is that dogs and cats are domestic animals that most people have as pets. That said, the majority of people would think that a dog or cat hunt would be cruel and inhumane.
emaxx - yes human expansion has encroached on wildlife habitat, and in order to keep the balance things need to be adjusted.
So there are two choices... thin out the herd of wild animals, or thin out the herd of people.
Which do you prefer?
in NJ the deer heard is three times as large today as it was in 1700s (cultivated land can support more deer per acre than natural woodlands is the reason why)
i hunted all over the state when i was young, there were very few bears, (we never saw any when out hunting) and very few wild turkeys, which we heard but very rarely saw, they hid in the bushes;
there were no sighting of eagles at all when i was younger, but there are many nesting pairs today, some of them on camera.
today almost 50 years later we have an exploding population of bears, wild turkeys, and eagles
i see bears out many places now, and wild turkeys come walking through in plain sight in long lines of 10 to 15 sometimes, this is a sea-change from the 60s and 70s. this never happened in the old days
all of this increase in bears, eagles and wild turkeys is due to proper wildlife management polices from the NJ division of fish and game,
any other old timers out there that can verify this from their own personal experience?
Emaxmann-I take it you don't have any pets, or did you eat them for lunch? SMH!
"Humans have a negative impact on the planet."
You say that as if humans ARE NOT A PART of this planet and it's ecosystem.
Well, we should definitely stop having children then. And after we stop having children, we could perform a mass suicide, so as to leave the planet unadulterated by human debris.
Yes you're pretty well right on point back when I started hunting in the 50s you rarely seen a turkey bear or even deer for that matter
Emaxxman-your quote -
However, I think the callousness in promoting the killing of bears because there are too many for the environment to support without acknowledging that human encroachment is one of the main reasons for the limited environmental capacity is ridiculous.
That is just what the artical that calico posted said. NO question people have taken the bears environment..........but there is NO going back, so the only option is to keep the population of bear in check.
Geese, thin em if they're thick, but I am OK with the Hackettstown population. Stray cats n dogs ---- dog catchers, but I never see too many round here. At least none that I haven't made my own. But you don't want to know about my feelings on snakes..........
Cats scratch fever on your car? Never heard of that.
Extreme? Take it easy? Your statement was absolute (also known as extreme). Perhaps you would like to re-phrase?
"humans have a negative impact on the planet"
"blacks have a negative impact on the neighborhood"
"muslims have a negative impact on christianity and atheism"
"donuts have a negative impact on Christie's waistline"
littlelu - there are MORE bears now than there were in NJ 50 years ago,
thats a fact.
"So there are two choices... thin out the herd of wild animals, or thin out the herd of people."
Obviously, I, as a meatatarian, would choose thinning out the wild animals. That's not my point though. It's the, "eh, just kill some bears and restore balance" attitude that seems troublesome. Maybe if the those that promote the bear hunt were to view it as a necessary evil rather than, IMO, espousing it as a humane way of keeping bears in check, it wouldn't bother me so much.
Calico - And that's just the problem isn't? People like to pretend that they are animal lovers but they're really just cat/dog/name a domestic animal-lovers. Killing bears isn't about taking care of the bears; it's about limiting their impact on the now claimed human environment. Again, nothing wrong with that but let's just be honest about it.
BBY - I had a pet tuna once. I got hungry and made sushi out of it. There are lots of people that have pet chickens and ducks. Why is it not inhumane to eat them? How about rabbits? Fish?
Hindus revere cows as sacred animals. I wonder if they're SMH-ing whenever they see an American chowing down on a 1/4 pounder?
I suspect that we kill more cats and dogs in this country than any other non-human-food source animal. Most of the time it's for population control but it's also done humanely (by putting the animal to sleep). We're not filling them up with buckshot (or whatever.) I think we can certainly recognize the anti-bear-hunt proponents' POV and desire for a more humane solution, can't we?
Well this thread was interesting at one point. Too bad it went downhill about 24 hours ago. I hate seeing animals killed myself but unfortunately, it's just a necessary evil of the world we live in.
Bryan emaxxman,I am an animal lover and have spent my entire life surrounded by them. I have owned dogs, cats, birds, fish, etc...so to answer your question (although it may sound harsh) I would feel the same way about stray cats/dogs or any other animal that became over populated. Yes, I also think that's a great idea to start hunting Geese ~ I'm tired of trying to dodge all of their feces when I'm out walking lol!
I feel so disappointed in the lack of compassion in the internet dialogue on all the sites. I spoke to a local hunter who provided one comment. Aggressive bears have been found to be in pain from some injury or also tooth infection that makes the bear very uncomfortable and nasty. Many combinations of circumstances in addition to pain we may never know about.
Still thinking about the family's loss. Very tragic.
just coach true, just coach. Lack of compassion for the deceased, and for animals.
There's alot of malarkey on this thread.
There is no need for any bear hunt.
The state used to dump all the nuisance bears up in Stokes not sure if they do that anymore since the hunt...
when posters use forums to make an end run to their own agenda the original issue gets lost. the original issue was a loss of life and lots of questions about what made this particular bear, one in thousands turn against a human being. We need to understand . I hope the bear autopsy will provide some answers. Maybe it will maybe it won't. if you want to argue bear hunts why not start a thread on bear hunts so the rest can read the posts on this particular situation without having to scroll through different arguments.
Why? This is how this forum works. At least from what I have seen. Threads evolve. I think people have stated repeatedly that they are sorry for what happened to the young man.
I will never change my position about the bear hunt.
happist girl, do you wear shoes made out of leather? jackets? handbags? belts?
is there a need for any hunt? ever?
how do you feel about the steer industry that supplies all the fast food places and grocery stores with beef? should that be stopped as well?
do you eat chicken? if no, are you also against chicken farms as stridently as you are opposed to a bear hunt?
do you eat fish? how do you feel about all the fish farms that the big frozen fish food companies operate?
do you eat any eggs? each and every egg is a potential chick, correct? so are you ok with that ?
why stop at bears? why not come out against all hunting? including small game, rabbits, quail, turkey, etc.
do farmers have the need to shoot crows that eat their corn crops? (yes/no) or is corn farming an intrusion on 'natural' habitat?
fact is, even with hunting, there are more bears here in new jersey than there were 50 years ago . . . .
the deer herd in NJ today is three times larger than it was in colonial times . . . . .
Oh god...this thread IS getting so annoying. Always the same old arguments. Listen, you can argue with each other until your blue in the face. Advocates for hunting and anti-hunting advocates will NEVER agree. This is a never argument!!!! Why don't you all just agree to dis-agree bc this bickering will not change a thing.
I don't know villain; I have learned that cats scratch cars, that's something.
Funniest thing is after this thread started there have been two dear accidents in front of my abode and yesterday our first bear of the year sauntered by. A cute little fellow that almost makes you like them in close proximity to humans.
Now, about those turkeys.......
+ 1 Villani. No one is going to change their mind on this issue. It's like a religion.
I mostly agree with you, villani. Except I do think that middle ground can (and has) been found by both sides. But slinging snarky comments on an internet forum isn't going to achieve that.
Aquarius villani - There are a lot of things people don't agree to disagree on. If the bickering bothers you, just don't read the thread.
Well, I check occasionally to see if there has been any intelligent information updates on this case, however it looks like it just turned into drama.
They is a lot redacted so there is a lot to learn yet.
9/26
http://www.nj.com/passaic-county/index.ssf/2014/09/deadly_bear_attack_911_call_reveals_hikers_confusion_terror.html#incart_river
"I check occasionally to see if there has been any intelligent information updates"
There is plenty of intelligent information that is being ignored by those who can only respond with emotional blather, such as:
* Links to scientific studies showing the need for hunting (due to the environmental damage that large herds of animals cause)...
* Proof that a well-managed hunting program has still allowed the populations of animals to flourish over the years...
* Examples of everyday objects/food that even the anti-hunters enjoy (I guess it's OK for animals to die as long as it's behind closed doors and you can get that new pair of Nike shoes)...
Nobody here is condoning poaching or inhumane kills from hunters. Anyone who hunts properly surely does not want the animals to suffer, and wild animals have arguably lived a better life than those crammed into pens destined to become the next Big Mac.
Sure, the conversation has deviated a bit from the original story, but they are tangentially related (wildlife/human interaction) and the "hunting" posts are where people started to create all of the drama in the first place.
Ignorance is bliss, which might explain happiest girls moniker. Folks that think hunting is evil seem to feel obliged to impose their opinion on others.
Animal rights folks have a long history of ad hominem attacks on the victim. We saw this when the child was killed in Woodport, NY and it started on their forums the same day as Mr. Patel was killed.
I have no illusion that their zealotry can be broken, like every other lunatic fringe they read their belief into every position. Reasonable people consider facts and then judge, zealots select the facts they think support their beliefs.
Hunting bears is still legal, bears are plentiful and in many places exceed the carrying capacity of the habitat.
OMG We are so far from the original post. Did the college student indeed get killed by the bear? Do we have autopsy results? It seems as though most of the people who post on this forum believe that hunting for sport is ok and for the ones who do not believe that - well they are just idiots. Let's stick with the original post. Does anyone know the truth here?
No lily pad, ----- no one knows the truth yet. But despite Calico's unknowledgeable (dare I say rather stupid) comment, bears don't bite people in the "arse" or anywhere else.
happiest girl - i asked you some questions, not trying to be snarky or mean spirited, just asking some open honest questions, will you answer them?
BrotherDog, I can be against hunting just as you can be for it. And it's really not your business, but no, I don't wear any leather or fur, I don't eat animals, and I am against CAFO's. There might be more bears now than 50 years ago,--- there are more people too! Is that justification for killing them? No! They are not a threat to people.
I have camped all my life, and slept outdoors. Like many other posters here, I have been in close contact with bears. We observe each other, respect each other, and then go our merry ways.
You gots to be kidding; you posed a snarky survey as bear bait for your hunt and now you are circling in an aggressive manner.
"No lily pad, ----- no one knows the truth yet. But despite Calico's unknowledgeable (dare I say rather stupid) comment, bears don't bite people in the "arse" or anywhere else.
I beg to differ:
http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/Bear-Bites-Woman-In-Butt-Near-Longwood-Apartment-142936365.html
http://www.city-data.com/forum/anchorage/182522-news-bear-bites-alaska-woman-buttocks.html
http://www.bubblews.com/news/2370545-polar-bear-bites-woman039s-buttocks
As for the "anywhere else" statement... I think the following victims would disagree, were they alive to do so.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America
Before you make a definitive statement, you should be prepared to back it up with facts.
Happiest girl, you say "they are not a threat to people" You do realize that this post is about a bear killing a 20 year old man! I would surely say that would make bears a threat. Do you want to re-think that comment? Just because you have not had any negative interactions with bears do not mean they are not a threat.
You can be anti hunting all you want, but please don't portray false information to others. NJ has an overpopulation of bears, it is simple science about carrying capacity.
Bear in Canada keeps mailman from making delivery. LOL
https://gma.yahoo.com/canadian-postal-workers-apology-non-delivery-bear-door-155400020--abc-news-pets.html
2 cents, If you are not aware, this is the first killing in One Hundred and Fifty (150)Years In addition, the details of this unfortunate occurance are still unknown.
It is a mystery and many people on this forum believe all is not being told.
What about dogs? Do you know that dogs not only attack but kill. Some statistics -
People killed in 2011 -- 33 / in 2012 -- 35 / in 2013 --- 32 And so far in 2014 -- 22.
Should we have a dog hunt?
"What about dogs? Do you know that dogs not only attack but kill."
Guess what happens to dogs that kill people... people kill them right back.
Guess what happens to the overpopulation of dogs and cats... they go to shelters to get euthanized unless someone adopts them. Adopting excess bears isn't really an option now, is it?
But that's neither here nor there. The bear hunt is not held for revenge or retribution. Even if there were zero bear attacks the hunt is still justifiable based on the environmental capacity and needs of not just the bear, but all other species that utilize the available habitat and food supply.
Sorry happiest,
Not the 1st is 150 years.
bears do not know state borders.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America
A great post by an acquaintance of mine in another forum. Same topic. NJ bear killing. He even includes graphics. :-)
http://www.city-data.com/forum/new-jersey/2206968-man-attacked-killed-black-bear-west-12.html#post36632417
justme3, that is the discussion here -- the NJ bear hunt. The 150 year statistic was for the NJ black bear.
We will be seeing all the hunters either out in the woods when the hunt starts or at the check in stations. I will say hello to you then. Can't wait.
Did you ever stop to think about maybe *why* it was the first attack in 150 years...
Increasing populations and undesirable overlap between human/wildlife habitat, causing the wildlife to lose the natural (and preferred) fear of humans.
If there is no bear hunt, there will undoubtedly be more attacks as more bears migrate (or are forced, as per Calico's friend) out of the deep habitat into the garbage-picking environment of your local condo/apartment complex.
I hope not , Mark. We shall see though. Does anyone use bear proof garbage cans? Just curious.
"I will say hello to you then. Can't wait."
You will get arrested as it is against the law to interfere with hunters...
23:7A-2. Hindering or preventing the lawful taking of wildlife prohibited; specific acts prohibited
No person may, for the purpose of hindering or preventing the lawful taking of wildlife:
a. block, obstruct, or impede, or attempt to block, obstruct, or impede, a person lawfully taking wildlife;
b. erect a barrier with the intent to deny ingress to or egress from areas where wildlife may be lawfully taken;
c. make, or attempt to make, unauthorized physical contact with a person lawfully taking wildlife;
d. engage in, or attempt to engage in, theft, vandalism, or destruction of personal or real property;
e. disturb or alter, or attempt to disturb or alter, the condition or authorized placement of personal or real property intended for use in the lawful taking of wildlife;
f. enter or remain upon public lands or waters, or upon private lands or waters without permission of the owner thereof or an agent of that landowner, where wildlife may be lawfully taken;
g. make or attempt to make loud noises or gestures, set out or attempt to set out animal baits, scents, or lures or human scent, use any other natural or artificial visual, aural, olfactory, or physical stimuli, or engage in or attempt to engage in any other similar action or activity, in order to disturb, alarm, drive, attract, or affect the behavior of wildlife or disturb, alarm, disrupt, or annoy a person lawfully taking wildlife; or
h. interject himself into the line of fire of a person lawfully taking wildlife.
Subsections a., b., e., f., and g. of this section shall not apply to a law enforcement officer or conservation officer enforcing the laws of this State or any local ordinance, or a private landowner or agent thereof on land or waters owned by that private landowner.
Thanks for that post. Although I certainly did not mean I would interfere with the hunter or harass. I will say hello if it is legal.
Just giving you a heads-up.
Print all the posters and signs you want. First Amendment rights and all...
But your protests must be on the streets (assuming you aren't blocking access) or private property where no hunting is taking place. If you are "in the woods" you could be subject to fines and civil actions should it be established that any interference is occurring.
"Did you ever stop to think about maybe *why* it was the first attack in 150 years..."
i can't help but see the irony that some that are calling for more bear hunting due to 1 bear attack in 150yrs are the same people that tell us we shouldn't have more gun control laws after a "rare" school shooting.
darwin Maybe they should pass a law that makes it illegal for bears to attack humans instead? Or, maybe we should take teeth and claws away from ALL bears because of the one who attacked a human?
iPhone-imal Reading comprehension is important...
SEVERAL times I've said that the hunt is for environmental and wildlife management reasons, regardless of the quantity of bear attacks.
But if you want to play that game, you're no longer allowed to use the "if it saves even one life" card.
Deal?
"Maybe they should pass a law that makes it illegal for bears to attack humans instead?"
I've got it!
Bear Free Zones!
LOL Mark I'm with you with the bear hunt arguement, and i don't mean to compare the 2 subjects, it's just the similarity in the rush to react to a "rare" event that i find ironic.
I don't think there was a rush to react to this rare event, considering the bear hunt has been a hot topic well before this death and those in support of the hunt are generally posting from an environmental perspective.
The anti-hunters are trying to project their opinions as having come from mouths of the hunt supporters so they can refute the logic. (i.e. "you only want to do this because the bear attacked someone!") Otherwise known as a straw man.
Once upon a time we knew of a bear that had an in the open den with her 2 cubs. Not much snow that winter and we would go observe from a distance. One day a guy showed up with a webcam strapped to his head that he said was live feed to his laptop. He also had a bag of walnuts and was going to approach the mom bear and offer them to her. We discouraged this and I think he left eventually. This was in DWG. True story. What an idiot.
"i can't help but see the irony that some that are calling for more bear hunting due to 1 bear attack in 150yrs are the same people that tell us we shouldn't have more gun control laws after a "rare" school shooting"
LMFAO Darwin!
no kiddin!
Darrin Quote of the thread so far:
I will say hello if it is legal.
funny on so many different levels!
They talk about population control what about human's and their lack of control continual pushing animals to the brink and when we step over bounderies on animals we say we need animal control haven't we done enough damage and thrown off the balance of nature /////but with respect for the family I do pray for them
PAT C. Calicos friends post is just what I said in responce to Nosilas post........just not in so many words.
I wonder if there are "no hunt" supporters for the Florida alligator??? They, at one time band the alligator hunt........then the population grew, A LOT........now it's back on.???
do humans have the right to be here ? yes/no
are we to give up all cultivated/farmed land because it's not 'natural'? yes/no
is the human race part of the eco system? yes/no
mountain lions hunt smaller game for food, is that natural? or should we tell them to stop doing that ?
oh goody, another survey where the author does not take a stand.
"it's a trap"
Admiral Akbar
Honestly, and I know, no one will agree with me but I do think we need human population control. This country...this world is getting overly populated. Just think how it will be 100 years from now and beyond that. I would totally agree with a two child maximum per family as a start. Otherwise 200 years from now..we will be so low on natural resources.
MG I think we know BrotherDog well enough to understand his position on the issues.
Pat C. ---- yes.,you are right. Developers are responsible for disrupting the animal's habitat. And truthfully, the hunters lack of control is really all about their lust for killing. They want people to think it is about "wildlife management" ....and maybe a few of them really believe this ...... but really it is about the desire to shoot guns, the thrill of killing animals, and to get that "trophy" animal.
"And truthfully, the hunters lack of control is really all about their lust for killing.
You have about as much understanding of this as you do the stock market...
Thankfully the real world has a better clue.
"They want people to think it is about "wildlife management" ....and maybe a few of them really believe this ...... but really it is about the desire to shoot guns, the thrill of killing animals, and to get that "trophy" animal." - happiest girl
I shoot guns all the time. I've never killed anything. I shoot at targets. So my desire to shoot guns has nothing to do with desire to kill. But, I have the ability to kill if I need to. As citizens we should have the right to bear arms under all circumstances to protect ourselves and our families from anything we need to be protected against.
That's a humorous answer, Mark Mc..
Who is "the real world" you speak of ??
(we all know this is just a defensive answer that means nothing )
The "real world" is people that actually take the time to research and understand the issue, or educate themselves in order to enter the "wildlife management" profession that you pretend doesn't exist. It's the hunters that go through training programs in order to understand the rules and ensure the hunts are performed humanely.
It's not a "defensive" answer. It's all your rantings deserve.
You've proven (and admitted) that you're willing to invest something as important as your financial future in a market that you didn't even take the time to develop a basic understanding of, so I don't find it surprising that you failed to do the same here.
You're entitled to your opinion. You don't like hunting - so don't hunt. So far any "facts" you've posted have been easily disproven with actual articles from scientific organizations (that I'm sure you declined to read). The remainder of your posts have absolutely zero corroborating evidence and are just emotional rants.
happiest said - "Developers are responsible for disrupting the animal's habitat."
question: should we give up farming our own food because it 'disrupts' animals habitats?
Oh no, Brodo's on a quest again........
Wait, wait, I know the answer. I researched, I understand, I educated, I is in the real world with trained responsibull hunters........ And the answer is "it depends."
Meanwhile, back with the hunters, those brave trained responsible men: "While hunting in 2010, Murphey got shot by his dog – in the butt. The shotgun blast tore through the back of the boat and into Murphey’s backside.
“I didn’t even know I’d been shot,” Murphey said. “And then my leg started burning. And I was like, ‘Oh crap, something ain’t right.’
"
Tree stands are the largest cause of injury in hunting; apparently we can train them hunters to responsibly hunt, but construction apparently eludes them.
"He stood up, but his legs had fallen asleep and he tumbled over.
“I had no feeling in my lower legs,” he said. Razzano’s face slammed into a tree root and his elbows jabbed into his ribs. He said he broke his back, his jaw, both wrists and multiple ribs. He spent the next six weeks in a hospital."
OK, I say on with the deer and bear hunts; I think the woodland creatures have a pretty good chance of making some scores too improving the gene pool for both species. Fact is NJ is overpopulated with bear and deer and a goodly number of stupid hunters too. Let's thin em all out :>)
If we are going to keep taking away habitats for these animals, we need to control their population, it is the life we choose.
Don't blame the hunters, blame the people who tear down the woods to build more homes and buildings pushing these animals out of their homes
Blame the people who are having ridiculous amounts of kids, adding to overpopulation
We cannot both live the life we live, if we are going to push animals out of their natural habitat, they are going to attack, get hit, etc.....it's what happens
Two choices, Control the animals or control the humans
SERIOUSLY Darrin!???? "Blame the people who are having ridiculous amounts of kids, adding to overpopulation"
That's the most ridiculous comment I have heard! Maybe you should move to China.
Christine Yeah....SERIOUSLY christine!!!!!!!!!
? lmao, did I really just blow your mind?
It's a fact that if you are going to push animals out of their habitat (essentially taking their home away) their population needs to be controlled, or a new home has to be given.
If it wasn't for hunting you would have way more attacks/damage to cars
way to poo all over someone's opinion
I totally believe we should start enforing human, population control. As I stated above...."this world is getting overly populated. Just think how it will be 100 years from now and beyond that. I would totally agree with a two child maximum per family as a start. Otherwise 200 years from now..we will be so low on natural resources."
villani that is ridiculous. Hey you know what, people are living longer too. The advances in Medical research are curing cancer patients and curing other diseases that generations ago we did not have. So people are living longer than ever which I guess in your mind is causing overpopulation. Maybe we should stop that too so we can control the human population? Need to weed out the herd as well as limit the new herd, right?
Although it doesn't list them all, Wiki provides a good accounting with citations of bear vs. human fatalities. While bear hunting in 1988, a bear know-it-all, read PhD ursologist from Canada, told me that only polar and black bears will use humans as part of their diet. A large part of coastal brown and grizzly eating humans is due to the inability to catch normal game, such as rotten or broken teeth and leg injuries. Therefore you stand a better chance of still breathing after a brown/grizzly leaves you, infection not withstanding.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America
I'm not sure if I believe those who say they're in the woods all the time and the bear always runs away. I'm in the woods a tenth of that and have had three bluff charges in NJ. It is not a cute, Disney moment. When they don't want you around you'll know in a hurry. It's no fun at the time, but at least you know after that you should have no more problems, barring cubs or food they're protecting. A bear that is quiet and cautious while circling is sizing you up for an advantage. Hopefully once it gets your wind it will leave, otherwise all of the above suggestions should help change their mind.
Another ten years of eating town garbage and they'll be just like the deer in town. That's what you get when you try to regulate anything with emotion rather than science.Then again science is only as good as the personal views of the inputer. Reliance on computer modeling you can get any outcome you want except the right one.
One-Eyed Poacher Raise your hand if you have too many kids........
"The average size of the American household has diminished by about one person over the past 65 years or so, according to new data from the US Census Bureau. The average population per household now stands at 2.55, down from 3.67 in 1948."
So much for 2 per except in Hackettstown where average family size is 2.48, family size is 3.0 according to census bureau for 2010. But on Main Street, family size is 27, right Darrin....:>) But it's the 85% white people in Hackettstown that's the real problem; those folks just can't have kids like dem Muslims, Blacks, and Hispanics. They just have to get on the stick :>)
Meanwhile the real truth is that NJ is has the densest population in America at 1,200 persons per square mile, with Rhode Island coming in second with 1,000; that's a huge difference right there. How dense we are is not going to change in our lifetime. You only have to look at some of the posts above to see how dense folks in NJ are :>)
Bear population is at 2,500 to 3,600; most agree it should be cut in half.
Now about those deer.........
http://www.nj.com/passaic-county/index.ssf/2014/09/death_of_hiker_spurs_debate_between_hunters_bear_activists_over_hunt.html
Good numbers mg.....except that they do not factor in where the 3.67 numbers got us today, which is the overall populaion
Our annual growth rate (America) is down to .7% annually, from the 1.2% it was in 1970, which would be a good thing, except for the exponential factor which has caused our population to double in 60 years.
follow worlds population numbers....it cannot keep going up the way it is, where will that put us in the next 100 years? Or will we just worry about it then?
i don't get your main street family size comment?
For the US, I don't think most experts express your view: http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2012/12/14/census-bureau-lowers-u-s-growth-forecast-mainly-due-to-reduced-immigration-and-births/
And they certainly don't use world growth rates to predict future US populations.
As for the world, a lot of contrasting views as well and perhaps less is not more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/23/population-growth-chart_n_5198251.html
Birthrates seem directly tied to the economy with lower rates for more robust economies, which sort of seems weird, so a lot depends on where the world turns. No doubt there will be world issues, but as the article says: space is not one of them. It's what we do to our environment along the way that is the issue.
To my way of thinking, it is all manageable but we will continue to do a very bad job. And even if we did improve, it's time to view our planet as "spaceship earth" and, let's face it, we've matured. We're gonna need a second vehicle. For many more reasons than population alone.
"where will that put us in the next 100 years? Or will we just worry about it then?"
I don't know about "we", i'll be long gone by then. If you're still here in 100yrs Darrin then you're part of the over population problem. You should be off the planet by then :)
Obama healthcare is taking care of the senior citizen over population problem. Don't get cancer over the age of 68. Your insurance will not cover any treatment. So you either pay cash for it or die.
As far as limiting the amount of children one can have. I don't see it in the future. How do you limit someone having children when religion comes into it. As long as you can afford and take of your children the government cannot tell you how many kids you can have. Unless of course we turn to communism. just my point of view. My Mom is the eldest of 13 children, she had 5 children, 9 grandchildren, 10 great grandchildren......I had 4 children and 3 grandchildren (so far). I would fight for that right til the day I die. No one can tell me otherwise.
Shhhhh, don't talk to Darrin about livin for 100 years; he's got kinemortophobia real bad.........
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