Ferguson, Missouri
What do others think about this case? The mob mentality is absolutely astounding - the Missouri State briefing was a hot mess. I really think that curfew is needed but it looks like this is going to be a disaster tonight.
Bonv It's a mess for sure. One thing I have never understood is looting. I can understand wanting to protest something that you are strongly against, but what does stealing a bunch of TVs and other stuff have to do with the original issue?
Calico696 The video of the fellow that got killed should be used as an educational tool showing thats its not civil to go into a store to steal and then assault the hardworking store owner. As for the recent so called choke hold case in NYC that gentle giant was arrested 31 times according to sources. Im planning a gathering at the gazebo this week. I'd like a group to hold hands and sing "We are the world" and then we can all roast marshmallows. Looting will not be tolerated.
jerseycash5"but what does stealing a bunch of TVs and other stuff have to do with the original issue?"
Nothing, other than being an outlet for pent up anger. What scares me is what will happen when that pent up anger is actually directed at its source...
justintime I don't feel it is pent up anger but a group of low-life that seize the opportunity to run amuck. They look for a "reason" to behave this way feeding off each other. The peaceful protestors were cleaning up after them and now have to live and shop in these areas that now are closed or empty. Even the family is calling for it to stop. The deceased didn't deserve to die so far as the facts have been given but he wasn't the squeeky clean future college boy either.
justwondering I remember the Newark riots burning down everything on Springfield ave. I dont think it's back together yet. The Mayor of Elizabeth went down the port, got on the bull horn and said " I am telling my officers to shoot first and ask question later". Elizabeth did not burn down. My friend had a big furniture store there. He sat every night in his front window with a carbine. Not even a window was broke.
Old Gent I think the instant police state is more alarming than communal outrage over a perceived injustice. If you need a better understanding of the forces at work in MO today, rewatch the classic spike lee film Do The Right Thing. There is a lot going on here and let's not dismiss the threat of institutionalized racism if we may never be on the receiving end of it. Thanks.
Really jerseycash5 Looting will not be tolerated. But the execution of an unarmed man will be i Most have missed the meeting where selling untaxed cigarettes and stealing less than $50 worth of merchandise were punishable by death. And by the way most of the looting that took place was by outside people not the residence of Ferguson
When you start equipping police with military weapons uniforms and vehicles they start asking like one
kepa
shooting an unarmed man from 35 feet away with his arms in the air is a perceived injustice
Great video of how people are reported upon http://youtu.be/vjIbJePROR8?list=UU1yBKRuGpC1tSM73A0ZjYjQ
There are a lot of valid points to this video. Seriously, a must watch. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10204325511367677
villani "The deceased didn't deserve to die so far as the facts have been given but he wasn't the squeeky clean future college boy either."
"Squeaky clean future college boy"? Is that the new standard for not deserving to be shot by the police?
Gadfly Well if protest turns to stealing and riot then the police has the right to use any means to arrest or stop this action even deadly force
Caged Animal "Any means"? No, that's not correct. For example, arresting and harassing the media. Nope, don't have the right to do that.
If the kid was shot in the back & that shouldn't be to hard to determine and if he was shot with his hands up than bring the wrath...cops are on the cutting edge of US Constitution and if they feel they can shoot people in the back with no ramifications - protests should be the least of it.
imo
Cops don't need MRAP's in the US but they have them - why?
Is there a rash of IED's in the US that i haven't heard about - this isn't Baghdad after all.
RU It's a shame that a young man lost his life!!! But that doesn't give these animals the right to loot and destroy property.... Two wrongs don't make a right!!! These people want justice and respect Mabey they should show some to the residents of that town!!!!
Mr. Tone I was afraid to return to this thread...but I'm reassured to see Kepa and Oldred's comments. Yes - some of you do, at a minimum, need to watch Do The Right Thing. That would just be a beginning of your education on the subject.
5catmom It's interesting that those of use who have mentioned - and been ridiculed for mentioning - police militarization in other posts are now noticing those who ridiculed us starting to say the same things...
Military gear (MRAP's, woodland camouflage, and M-16's at the ready) is NOT the same thing as riot gear (padded vests, batons, and plexiglass shields).
Just to say (in advance of someone trying to post a "gotcha") it isn't the "gear" that's the problem (because I support the right to own those tools), it's the "mentality" that most officers have when they put it on and try to assert their authority looking for cases of "contempt of cop".
Mark Mc. 
Booster90 Not condoning it, but sometimes when life gets you so frustrated, when the odds stacked against you seem so deep, when there appears to be no way out, no future, and no life worth living, and then a spark of injustice like shooting an unarmed guy for disturbing traffic and not even naming the shooter for a few days, coming up with a lame shoplifting excuse, just to fan the flames, that spark ignites the desire to burn it all down.
In light of your plight, most riots are literally fenced off at the very neighborhoods affected by the misery. It's like environmental suicide. You hate your life, so you burn your life down but they usually don't step outside their own neighborhoods. I mean personally if I was upset enough to riot, I would think I would pick a better neighborhood next door.......
Again, not condoning it, but realizing how deep the pain must be.
mistergoogle Low-lifes can run amok at any time of the day. Breaking curfew is intentionally pushing back against authority, which is pushing back against the source of discontent for many, and that's what really concerns me. When will someone break and target law enforcement?
Curfew is the wrong answer IMO in this situation. Bring in additional officers of the law for overnight assistance, sure, but making an authoritarian problem worse by using more authority definitely will not help the situation.
Is anyone upset at the use of military force, equipment, and weapons?
Here comes the 911 response to urban strife.
Any one that thinks rioting and looting is justified is an idiot. The witness in this case are probably people who hate the cops. A video has now surfaced with audio that backs the officers version. So without proper investigation a conclusion that the cop was wrong and the
Suspected robber was innocent in all this is ridiculous. The cop may have been wrong but so may have the young man. The media took this and ran with it. And old red mr green would be alive if he did not resist. But that was not his fault either. No one should die for minor offenses but to say the offender did not bring it upon himself is obsurd. Some day the cops will say they enough and no one will do that job. When that day comes and we call and no one shows up. Then the thugs will run rampant and then we will
Say it's the cops fault because they quit. Wake up people these deaths are tragic but so is the future we face with out law. I would not want to do a cops job. If they act and someone gets hurt because they resist its police brutality. If they don't act then they are lazy over paid donut eaters. Smh
oldred, I was using that phrasing to not add my bias to the situation. Yes of course it was an absolutely atrocious act that needs to be addressed immediately. But unfortunately I realize there are people out there who aren't outraged, whether they don't have the facts or just can't understand the grief of a mother or a community. So, yeah, I echo your sentiment. don't assume ok.
The military should be sent into all our major cesspools such as Newark. Philly,Cleveland and the like. The amount of murders in these and other cities every year is staggering. yet I dont see the rage from these same criminals that are hooting hollering and looting..
OLDRED you are an obvious liberal. Whatever happened to being responsible for ypur own actions? MAYBE if they were not breaking the law these things would not happen. I think we should have the right to defend our selves AND our property to ANY extent when we are being wronged. You start it, I finish it. That's how this country was successful for over 200 years and now, we are on our way out. Just like all the historical great nations...once we become entitled, we vote for handouts and the country dissolves into oblivion. WE HAVE OUR RESPONSIBILITIES AS WELL AS OUR RIGHTS
sientje smith jerseycash5
Sorry, but unless Martial Law is declared, I'm pretty sure that the U.S. Military can not be deployed in that manner.
That's what the National Guard is for. The Governor of each State or Territory has the ability to call them out when needed to provide safety and security in the event of a State or local emergency.
Phil D. Justpassinthru --- I think the only video, that of a robbery, has nothing to do with the events that followed, at least according to police.
Until a full report comes out, we have differing eyewitness and police versions. The eyewitness versions are varied and the police versions keep changing.
I think shot while disrupting traffic seems a bit harsh.
I think shot while unarmed is a bit over the top.
And now the police are saying a scuffle ensured where the young man was going for the officer's gun. But the first shot came from inside the police car, sounds like the gun was firmly in the officer's possession and he was safely in the car. Another hit was made when Brown was 35 feet away, obviously the officer was not worried for his safety the. And it sounds like he was hit multiple times. Pretty severe stuff for walking down the middle of the street blocking traffic.
So we get a second autopsy, the eyewitness reports will be documented, there may be pictures to view, and hopefully the police will arrive at a final story from their side as to what happened and only then will we know how over the top this was.
Still no reason for violent protests but if this happened in our community, we would be pretty pissed.
There are so many unknown to all the stories. Here is another one I just read.. Even the police have different stories. That don't happen in big city's. They have only one voice speak on the subject. It will take the Feds to come up with real story and there not very fast unfortunately so the beat goes on.
http://danaloeschradio.com/alleged-friend-of-officer-darren-wilson-offers-his-side/
MG, hopefully, if thugs entered stores in Hackettstown and simply took what they wanted, knocking down the store clerk and turning back again to make sure the clerk understood he would not be stopped, you would be pretty pissed.
The video clearly shows the mindset of Michael Brown. It could also be why Michael Brown was immediately on the defense, attacking the police officer and going for his gun.
I find it unlikely that the officer was "pulling" MB into his car as one or two of the witnesses stated. He was no gentle giant.
The officer has been vilified from the get go. Who could blame the police from not releasing his name? I do wish he would tell his side of the story already.
Intreresting, felony charges, including serious physical injury, all gone..
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/08/14/1321543/-Proactive-Defense-of-Mike-Brown
I was skeptical and searched the case.net site for Missouri and found the record 13SL-CR12675-01 - ST V MICHAEL R BROWN, from which these charges originated. You can readily find this too, by searching for case number 13SL-CR12675-01
Michael Brown's rap sheet on casenet:
Description: Burglary - 1st Degree { Felony B RSMo: 569.160 }
Date: 11/02/2013 Code: 1401000
OCN: AJ006207 Arresting Agency: ST ANN PD
Description: Armed Criminal Action { Felony Unclassified RSMo: 571.015 }
Date: 11/02/2013 Code: 3101000
OCN: AJ006207 Arresting Agency: ST ANN PD
Description: Assault 1st Degree - Serious Physical Injury { Felony A RSMo: 565.050 }
Date: 11/02/2013 Code: 1301100
OCN: AJ006207 Arresting Agency: ST ANN PD
Description: Armed Criminal Action { Felony Unclassified RSMo: 571.015 }
Date: 11/02/2013 Code: 3101000
OCN: AJ006207 Arresting Agency: ST ANN PD
https://www.courts.mo.gov/casenet/cases/charges.do
13SL-CR12675 - ST V MICHAEL R BROWN
This information is provided as a service and is not considered an official court record.
Charge/Judgment
This charge is no longer pending. Please refer to case 13SL-CR12675-01 for pending charge.
Next Charge/Judgment
This charge is no longer pending. Please refer to case 13SL-CR12675-01 for pending charge.
Next Charge/Judgment
This charge is no longer pending. Please refer to case 13SL-CR12675-01 for pending charge.
Next Charge/Judgment
This charge is no longer pending. Please refer to case 13SL-CR12675-01 for pending charge.
Rioting and looting is not justified and the spark that ignited the flame by a senseless killing is not justified either.
positive LV Mom - None of those things matter. The fact is that Brown was unarmed and with his hands in the air. Trying to tarnish his character is pointless on your end. The facts are clear. Your racism is showing!
theRealCat MG
The video I referred to has audio of a witness describing the incident as happening the same way as the friend of the officer relayed the story as he told it. This story will version will be hard to prove as no person in that community will come forward after r he violent demonstrations. The friend of Brown's who says the cop tried pulling Brown in to the car is hard to believe. I can't get the picture of trying to pull a huge guy through a car window to make sense. Bottom line is even if the cop is found not guilty of anything the city will blow up again.
Mr Negative What they need to do is cut off the media,Rev al is a joke just looking to fill his pockets.Where was he when the college student in west orange was killed?
Positive is right which is what I was trying to say. We just won't know until the "dust" of the variety of accounts is consolidated into a single story including audio eyewitness accounts confirming one of the many police versions.
We don't even know how many times he was shot although multiple seems to be the guess as well as how many times or whether he was shot in the back, while unarmed, perhaps already wounded, perhaps while running away from the crime of disrupting traffic.
However, the robbery, while awful, according to the police does not come into play at the time of the shooting unless you believe it rules an unarmed man being shot is justified because he has a history of being evil. The arresting officers were not actively holding him because of the shoplifting according to the police. The shoplifting was a strongarmed job but that consisting of pushing a clerk who was grabbing at them. But yes, I think we would be totally pissed over such a senseless robbery.
Any violence in protest of this event is wrong and does not help Mr. Brown's case either.
Just saying that the facts have not come out, there's a lot of varied accounts, but shooting an unarmed man, perhaps in the back, for disrupting traffic does not look good.
theRealCat , we don't know his hands were in the air, and judging from the video taken only minutes before, he doesn't look like he gives up easily.
We now know he was shot 6 times, all in the front. He was not shot from behind as at least one witness stated. I don't believe any of their testimony is credible at this point.
MG, the robbery certainly does come into play if Michael Brown thought the police officer was there to arrest him. The officer may not have known what just occurred but MB and his friend sure did. We know the officer was treated at the hospital and his face was swollen.
We don't know what happened but the facts seem to be getting closer to what the Police Officer said. MB was not running away according to a couple of recorded videos and was not shot in the back as per the latest autopsy. Yes, he was killed and we need to know how it happened BUT he could have been the aggressor and going for the gun as the PO indicated. Doesn't excuse the action but it does mitigate it.Also an important factor is the robbery because that goes to potential frame of mind and aggression immediately before the incident.
LVMom: you are right, the autopsy is in!
Six bullets, two in the head, none from close range, and the death blow appears to be the one in the top of the head as it he was bent forward either giving up or charging. Probably the last shots to hit him were the head shots and no way he would have survived. But no powder burns meaning no close range. The other four were in the right arm.
The long range theory is preliminary because the clothes were not provided for examination. Some of the bullets entered and exiting up to five times. His body was left in the street for hours.......
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/18/us/michael-brown-autopsy-shows-he-was-shot-at-least-6-times.html?_r=0
As usual, the Onion nails it...
With riots raging in Ferguson, MO following the shooting death by police of an unarmed African-American youth, the nation has turned its eyes toward social injustice and the continuing crisis of race relations. Here are The Onion’s tips for being an unarmed black teen in America:
•Shy away from dangerous, heavily policed areas.
•Avoid swaggering or any other confident behavior that suggests you are not completely subjugated.
•Be sure not to pick up any object that could be perceived by a police officer as a firearm, such as a cell phone, a food item, or nothing.
•Explain in clear and logical terms that you do not enjoy being shot, and would prefer that it not happen.
•Don’t let society stereotype you as a petty criminal. Remember that you can be seen as so much more, from an armed robbery suspect, to a rape suspect, to a murder suspect.
•Try to see it from a police officer’s point of view: You may be unarmed, but you’re also black.
•Avoid wearing clothing associated with the gang lifestyle, such as shirts and pants.
•Revel in the fact that by simply existing, you exert a threatening presence over the nation’s police force.
•Be as polite and straightforward as possible when police officers are kicking the shit out of you.
yankeefan2014 so MG if 4 shots hit him in the right arm, i would guess his arms were not up over his head at that point, right? A cop is not going to aim for the raised arm, they are going to aim for the chest.
darwin I was watching CNN and a young woman was asked why are you rioting and looting and her answer was because what they did to Michael was wrong and I have a right.
????????????????
ANIMALS!
Can't we all just get along?
Christine 4 shots to the arm means the policeman was not shooting to kill,but to stop him.His arms were not up and he was not shot in the back and he robbed the store hours before.
"4 shots to the arm means the policeman was not shooting to kill,but to stop him.His arms were not up and he was not shot in the back and he robbed the store hours before."
Well, we can ask the gunnies here re: police accuracy..... But I think four shots to the arm, some of which entered and left the body up to five times sounds like an over the top stop.... Whether arms were up or not is yet to be seen, but doubtful at the time of being shot. Of course, my arms would be down at the sound of the first shot of which there were many, perhaps not all hitting the target.
"A cop is not going to aim for the raised arm, they are going to aim for the chest." Four in the arm and two in the head; do you really think there was aiming going on? I mean if aiming was going on, don't the good guys go for the leg for shooting the unarmed?
Time will tell, need to put all the stories together to better determine the facts of what happened, but in my humble book, this does not look good for the shooter.
http://time.com/3132635/ferguson-coming-race-war-class-warfare/
"Ferguson is not just about systemic racism — it's about class warfare and how America's poor are held back, says Kareem Abdul-Jabbar"
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metro/critically-wounded-in-shooting-arrested-after-ferguson-curfew-goes-into/article_03b8ca92-776d-525d-b95e-4387ef63a3e2.html
Nixon speaks on several Sunday morning shows, Holder orders autopsy
Skippy "So what they did to Michael was wrong and I have the right to riot and loot hard working White, Black, Asian @ Korean businessman". Have no mercy on these pieces of S***, Rev Al Followers. This country is going to hell thanks to the liberal CNN Watchers and followers who praise lord Obama. Why don't you vote that do nothing president back into office if you could a third time. WHEN will you WAKE up America! I truly cant believe what has happened to this country. Thanks Liberal asswipes.
http://www.ksbw.com/national-news/autopsy-michael-brown-shot-at-least-6-times/27577754#!bFE4Si
Private autopsy results are discussed.
Maybe they are riotting because of decades of police brutality and no matter where they go for help it falls on deaf ears. Take this guy Henry Davis a welder coming home from work . Got pulled over by Ferguson police for DWB driving while black Unfortunately he had the same name as another guy who had a warrant out for his arrest. So instead of the police doing some actual police work to make sure they had the right guy. He was arrested and jailed while in jail he was assaulted by the police.
When the police found out they had the wrong Henry Davis they charged him with destruction of police property bleeding on their uniforms. And fortunately for the Ferguson police department the videocameras that would have shown the beating he took were not working that night. Yeah I understand why they are riotting so tell me when was the last time any of you were charged with destruction of police property for bleeding on police uniforms maybe some of you should walk in their shoes for a while and see what it really like to be black in America
Sorry Oldred!! No excuse for destroying a hard working businessman's business and property. These are ignorant uneducated animals looking for Obama Handouts!
I would shoot these bastards if they tried to loot and rob my business. Stop being such liberals. They don't want to help themselves, all they look for are excuses for why they are in the situation they are in. I grow up poor you don't see me looking back. Sorry don't buy any of the BS.
Tell them to get a life.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUdHIatS36A
Last Week Tonight with John Oliver: Ferguson, MO and Police Militarization (HBO)
sorry riots solve nothing. all they do is increase the tension between the community and law as well as the tension between the community itself. You want to protest the behavior of the police, fine go do it peacefully you'll get more people on your side doing so.
OMG Skippy, what a great video! I love that guy, he speaks the truth using great humor!
Philliesman LVmom posted data from the criminal record of a Michael Brown implying that it belongs to the young man who was just killed. But she posted only the first two sentences of the introductory paragraph and left out the part that cast doubt that this is the same Michael Brown that was killed. I've included the entire paragraph below you'll notice that this Michael Brown is 17 rather than 18 and lives 47 miles away in Troy, MO. Pay particular attention to the author's very last sentence.
"I was skeptical and searched the case.net site for Missouri and found the record 13SL-CR12675-01 - ST V MICHAEL R BROWN, from which these charges originated. You can readily find this too, by searching for case number 13SL-CR12675-01. Note that the defendant in this case lives in Troy, MO, which is 47 miles from Ferguson, MO, according to Google Maps. Also note that the defendant was born in 1997, which would make him 17, rather than 18. It's safe to say that these charges are being falsely attributed and the person spreading this is libeling Mike Brown."
RAD Oh Mr. negative got your self a bad case of Obama derangement syndrome. I was wondering how long it would take to bring the president into it in a negative light. Wasn't Henry Davis taking care of himself not looking for a handout and it still do any good people like you are the ones that are destroying this country
RAD, I purposely posted the site defending MB...as you can see it looks like he was wrong about it not being the same MB. MB lived in Troy and was visiting his grandmother, google it. Add to that the charges suddenly no longer pending and, well, I think it's obvious.
RAD LV MOM Has a history of leaving out little details like that it doesn't fit into her story so she just leaves them out kind of like Fox news or any other conservative mouthpiece
Loot and destroy the stores that they shop at.Stupid is what stupid does.Arrest everyone they got on security tapes.They will be in there tomorrow buying grape soda.
philliesman, racist, gross. please stop casting a bad light on the populace of hackettstown
I figured the race card would be played by now. I wonder if those shouting "racists!" would be just as outraged if it were a white boy who got killed. Or even a black cop who killed a white boy?
Seems both sides made some mistakes on this one. Shoplifting is a crime, and resisting police is also. The militarization and arrogance of the police forces is also getting atrocious.
This one is not nearly as clean-cut as many of you would like it to be.
On a related note, how do you all feel about the citizens defending their stores with weapons? You know I feel about it...
JeffersonRepub Oldred Please take your sorry azz to Ferguson and join your heroes. They will probly clobber and rob you the first chance they get.
Spring Fever This whole thing is such a shame. It's a shame that a young man lost his life and that an officer will probably live his life in fear. However, I am SO sick of everyone crying racism when something happens to a black individual. Look at what happened to the young man in West Orange. He was killed by a group of black men. Did that case get nearly as much coverage as this? Did white people everyone yell out racism or hate crime? What about the link I'm posting below? I heard about this years ago and wish I could forget it. This case was the most disturbing thing I had ever read but I bet you didn't even hear of it. I don't understand it and I think it's very sad but I'm sick of people lashing out after something happens to a black individual who they think is innocent. The individuals in the link below were innocent, the young man in West Orange was innocent and yet you don't see people rioting and protesting and looting. I don't get it.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/newsom.asp
Like I mentioned on the "Zimmerman" thread, I believe the media is the big problem here. They dramatize and exaggerate many issues..they even offer their own biased views. Basically they stir the pot all for the sake of ratings.
auntiel Fedup Totally agree ! Im not going to read the story you posted cause Im pretty sure I know about it and its sickening.
Just wanted to add that most of the time it is the media that pulls out the race card when it's a white on black killing or beating. In turn, it gets the black (African American) community riled up.
Of course the rioters and looters are responsible for their own behavior, but I think the media is responsible as well and kind of planted the seed in the first place.
I'm not saying that racism doesn't exist, it is still very prevalent and very disturbing.. but I really try to look at the source before I form an opinion.
Gangsta I'm so sick of people playing the "race card" card. As if racism doesn't exist when you invoke those two magic words.
Why are they protesting at night? 11pm & protesting? The only real lights seem to be from media cameras. The media is hoping something will happen, which it will, simply because cameras are there. A 2:20 am news conference? Crazy. Started with a prayer. Should have prayed for rain, so everyone, including store owners could go home and get some sleep.
maja "I'm so sick of people playing the "race card" card. As if racism doesn't exist when you invoke those two magic words."
HAHAHAHAHA. Reverse psychology, Gadfly? Or would that be double-reverse psychology? HAHAHAHAHAHA.
We won't need to worry about the un-constitutionality of using our military against our own citizens; we are turning our police forces INTO the military.
http://www.thefederalistpapers.org/us/maps-show-the-militarization-of-americas-police-force-since-2006
No race card, simply race facts. (From USA Today)
In 1970, the population of Ferguson was 99% white. Today, it is 29% white, 67% black. Of the 53 local police officers, 3 are black. in 2013, blacks made up 86% of all vehicle stops and 93% of all arrests. In Ferguson, black teen unemployment is 35%. 25% of the population lives below the poverty level. Overall black unemployment is 12%, overall white unemployment is 6%.
Facts are facts.
50 on the police force are white, 3 black, yet everytime there is a news conference on TV, who is the cop speaking? One of the 3 black cops!! Hmmm....coincidence? I think not. Think about it.
Its all disturbing. Cops are wrong for the shooting and the people are wrong for the riots and looting. Lets move on.
botheredbyuu2 BBYU the black cop that you see on tv is from the highway patrol not the local police. He was put in charge of the situation and has been great dealing with the public.
@YF2014 - you're missing key pieces: (1) how many POs have been hired (let's say in the last 10 years) and how many applicants have been black?
Regarding the stops and arrests, if as you point out the majority of the population is black then you would expect higher stops.
Ok, 15 minutes is up, time to move on.
Actually last night the police suggested that perhaps daytime would be a better time to protest to reduce the small number of people bent on throwing things. They arrested 31 last night by 2am, purportedly with a number from out of state. I thought it weird that as they were loading up the paddy wagon that a number of the arrested were white........not that's there's anything wrong with that.
But time is up, we need to get back to those young latino border crossers being the darned ruination of our way of life, you know, that way o life like Monday Night Football with drug-crazed, dog killing, DUI hero's or burning down our cities because we are a might backed up or "take your long gun to work" week.
Sorry, a might backed up myself this morning.
The facts are racist. You bringing up the facts are racist. Every time a white person speaks of a black person in a negative way, they are considered racist.
FedUp
I read the story from your link and am so disturbed by it. This was beyond monstrous and yet we know nothing about it.
I"m not sure what to believe with this story about Michael Brown. However, I do know that people of all walks of life need to stop making excuses for their bad behavior. Living in poverty does not give you a license to break the law. There are so many uplifting stories about people rising up and making something of themselves, even in the worst of circumstances, but the media never shows us happy news. There is no excuse for the looting and violence. The looters make innocent, hard working people pay for someone else's crime.
Jazzykatt http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/justice-department-orders-new-autopsy-of-michael-browns-body/2014/08/18/023a4d12-2694-11e4-958c-268a320a60ce_story.html
Holder headed to Ferguson on Wednesday, will oversee federal response to shooting
well it looks like most of the looters that were arrested last night were not from Ferguson, some came from NY, Cali just to be part of the problem rather than the solution. Similar to the Bundy ranch incident.
@yankeefan2014
FACTS ARE FACTS
TRASH, GARBAGE, LOWLIFES, SCUM, OBAMAFREELOADERS loot and riot innocent Business owners. Arrest them!!
Someone above asked if w would be this outraged if it was a white kid and a black cop. Truthfully probably not, but the fact remains that it seems like it is never a white kid and a black cop. It usually a black kid and several white cops. The white cops may feel overwhelmed but that does not justify killing anyone. If the killing was justified, and it might well have been, why was there so much effort expended to hide the officer and why was the body left in the street for 4 hours.
In all honesty I'm more upset about the militarization of the police. Armored vehicles, fully auto weapons, flash and tear gas grenades tossed into crowds, woodland camo and ignoring the law (arresting photographers, bashing heads, refusing to give their own names, hiding badge number and arresting folks for false charges or never charging them) are really scary.
I agree the looting and burning and damaging property is wrong.But much like claiming that robbing a store is justification for shooting an unarmed man, looting in reaction to police violence is an invalid argument.
Agust wut happened, not cool.
looting is cool tho. if olny it happened here, id be all up in that mansfield plaza.
TheR1ddler "But much like claiming that robbing a store is justification for shooting an unarmed man"
No one is claiming robbing a store is justification for shooting an unarmed man. Witnesses stated the cop and MB scuffled.. everyone there agrees to that. Now where it gets fuzzy is was MB surrendering when he got shot or charging the cop at the time? Also why wasn't a taser used rather than a gun? Why didn't the cop shoot to injure rather than shoot to kill? The shoot to kill mentality of most police is the biggest issue here, not race. There are many ways to stop a perceived threat without costing someone a life.
The fact that MB just robbed the store is only relevant to his mindset, did he think he was being stopped because he just robbed the store and panic and tried to get away from the cop? Maybe, but anyway you look at it there were many ways for this to end without someone being killed.
Mr Negative The KKK called they wanted to know if they could hold their next meeting and cross burning in your backyard
wouldn't it be nice if everytime a cop drew his weapon a camera on his chest started recording.
Oldred.
You continue to live your sweet liberal naïve life, while I will not tolerate ignorance from lowlifes that are ruining this country and crying oppression.
Along with the undocumented freeloaders that are making us all pay more for the services they are using and taking advantage of.
Oldred do you have an answer as to why I am paying $1780.00 a month for a husband and wife for healthcare? and others pay nothing?? why work?????? I don't feel sorry for anyone. pick your ass up and do something about the situation you are in.
And another thing Oldred, My wife is from Australia, opened a successful corporation in NJ and is a productive permanent resident, I sponsored her 10 years ago after dating her for 3 years in REAL life ( not internet dating BS) so I know all about the Right way to come to this country!
I think too much Shoprite got to your Brain!
PS I will probably take my Social Security Benefits and move to Australia when I retire!
oldred - I didn't see any reference to any particular "race" of people in Mr. Negative's post. As far as I know, trash, garbage, scum, Obama freeloaders, etc. come in all races.
The hate mongers would have you believe that the police officer put Michael Brown on his knees and shot him execution style. There were people there who were witnesses and saw the shooting. Did it need to escalate to the level it did, most definately not? However, if the police officer shot Mr. Brown because he was in fear of being harmed by this 300 lb. 6'4" who had just been told to stop and put his hands behind his back to be arrested and did not conform because he didn't want to be arrested then the law could conclude the he shooting was justified. If this happens then watch out. In contrast when O.J. was acquitted the whites didn't riot or loot.
judy Ayatollah Khamenei Trolls U.S. Race Relations on Twitter
http://www.mediaite.com/online/ayatollah-khamenei-trolls-u-s-race-relations-on-twitter/
Now Egypt Is Trolling the U.S. over Ferguson
http://www.mediaite.com/online/now-egypt-is-trolling-the-u-s-over-ferguson/
LeRoy Grimace Oh Boy...the same old division between the spin from the communist lefties pushing their 'propaganda' to achieve their 'agenda' and people with Integrity trying to give the TRUTH the light of day! The Government and Police in a 'balanced' law abiding environment are there to Protect the Citizenry! We are 'overgrown' in our cities and in our government is becoming Totalitarian under Obama (Form of government that subordinates all aspects of its citizens' lives to the authority of the state, with a single charismatic leader as the ultimate authority) He is overstepping his authority in every aspect of our lives. He and Holder and their Race Baiters are Igniting this! WE the People have LOST all sense of LAW! Open Borders> LEGAL drugs> Banning our Individual Gun Rights > and now they are giving their 'brown shirts' the power over the people! Just wait and see!
Thankfully there are some good Black leaders out there that recognize the manipulation of the Black 'uninformed ' masses by these Fascists!
The Truth is coming out about the Police officer that was doing his duty and acting in self defense against a lawless punk!
sha44ss Let me see if I have the story straight.
Liberals naïve, ignorant idiots ruining this country giving money to undocumented freeloading Obama-free-loaders who watch CNN, praise lord Obama and follow Rev Al. Fergy animals loot stores looking for Obama handouts; they be bastardos. "Have no mercy on these pieces of S***," "Arrest them!!" "I would shoot these bastards" "Shoot them,"
"I grow up poor you don't see me looking back" except now when I tell you I grows up poor and with a demonstrated lack of grammatical skills. Or when I tell you about 10 years ago when I dated my permanent resident wife. Me likey Australians, they work hard for me. Me date real time, virtual dating bad. I date, I sponsor, I marry, I likey. I can speak Australian.
"Thanks Liberal asswipes."
Wah. It's all the liberal's fault.
Meanwhile, Australia has universal health where the government pays a large part of hospitalization. They have medicare. Australia has social security, unemployment, and welfare. America spends 20% of it's GDP on entitlements; Australia spends 19.5%. Compared to the US, Aussies are very liberal.
Uh oh.
Amen Sha44ss
And thank you Calico696 for defending my position. Oldred watches too much CNN
Of Course! It's Obama's fault! Meanwhile, the Onion chips in:
The ongoing clashes between residents of Ferguson, MO and heavily armed police forces—which are equipped with M16 rifles and armored vehicles—have drawn attention to the increasing militarization of police in the United States. Here are the cases for and against outfitting local law enforcement with military-grade weapons:
PROS
•Same tactics used successfully in Afghanistan, Iraq
•Modern law enforcement simply cannot do their job properly by relying on handguns, tasers, and tear gas alone
•A real shot in arm for nation’s ailing weapons industry
•Look on driver’s face when tank pulls up beside Mini Cooper always fun
•Local photojournalists now able to capture fog of war at home
•Nice surprise treat for veterans to see weapons they used in war pop up on their hometown streets
•Never a bad idea to put a more powerful gun in someone’s hand
•Actually going to seem pretty quaint when compared with police armaments 20 years from now
CONS
•Most police officers have proven fully capable of violently subduing protesters without any military-grade weapons
•It actually very hard to recite Miranda rights while holding 40-pound grenade launcher
•There no longer any middle ground between community watch and military
•Mine Resistant Ambush Protected Vehicles only get 5 miles per gallon
•Jesus, just look at this shit
•Military-style helmets limit peripheral vision while firing indiscriminately into crowd
•Could potentially be abused if put in lesser hands than America’s historically honest and virtuous police departments
•Takes away that personal touch of beating a suspect to death with bare hands
The police don't need Martial Law to shoot anybody.
PS, thank God for the good black folk, right sha44ss?
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/08/breaking-report-po-darren-wilson-suffered-orbital-blowout-fracture-to-eye-socket-during-encounter-with-mike-brown/
BREAKING REPORT: Officer Darren Wilson Suffered “Orbital Blowout Fracture to Eye Socket” During Mike Brown Attack
A blowout fracture is a fracture of one or more of the bones surrounding the eye and is commonly referred to as an orbital floor fracture. (AAPOS)
This comes after St. Louis Post-Dispatch reporter tweeted out last night that a dozen local witnesses confirmed Ferguson police officer Darren Wilson’s version of the Brown shooting story.
OLDRED...you and people like you give me an upset stomach. How can anyone, of normal or above intelligence share. your opinions? Don't you see the damage to this country over the past six years? You may be a martyr and want to be a socialist, but I don't want to. There are plenty of socialist nations so why don't you go to one of them and leave one of the few democratic nations alone. The President is responsible for manyof today's problems, I can't believe he and his Muslim, socialist, anti-women , anti white haters are still in power. It is probably too late to reverse things. I hope not. I pray for my nation daily. I guess our 200 years Are up. Actually we have been a leader for the longest reign in history.we are on step 6/7 out of nine. Hope I die before we get there. The steps, in brief are#bondage to faith #faith to courage, #courage to liberty, #liberty to abundance, #abundance to complacency, #complacency to apathy, # from apathy to dependence # from dependence bank to bondage. Right now, 40 percent have reached government dependency. Does no-one see this ? History speaks.
Two days ago:
"The deceased didn't deserve to die so far as the facts have been given but he wasn't the squeeky clean future college boy either" - justwondering
Turns out he was a future college boy, was suppose to start tech school yesterday.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/11/justice/michael-brown-missouri-teen-shot/index.html?iid=article_sidebar
you all act like your opinions matter. ur from a small town nobody has even heard of, secrelty farting in an aisle of the local target, with your 5 inbred children popped out rapid fire like. u know im rite.
(i like looting, and so do ur kids at mansfield walmart, yeah son. i read about on hackettstown police facebook LOL.)
@ mistergoogle
Thank you for mimicking my opinion like a 9 year old.
I guess your opinion is the only correct one on here.
Thank you for summarizing it up for me and reading my posts I am impressed!.
Lets get a collection going to ship mistergoogoo and olelardazz to Ferguson for good. They will be a great asset to the thugs running amok. MB made his own bed . He looked for trouble and he found it. As for the hardworking store owner good luck to him in the future. The residents in these getto's should be grateful there are those that are willing to open shop to service them !
Yeah, yeah, I know, character assassination..
http://mrconservative.com/2014/08/47763-listen-mike-browns-explicit-rap-songs-about-drugs-drinking-and-murder/
LISTEN: Mike Brown’s Explicit Rap Songs About Drugs, Drinking And Murder
The chorus is taken from the popular song, “Bad Boys,” but instead they sing, “shit talker, shit talker, whatcha gonna do? when a real killa killa come for you?”
In this rap song, one of the rappers talks about killing someone and seeing them “layin’ across the street.” The victim is said to be “mashed up and black” like a goblin so “there ain’t describing him.”
With this Glock in your face
And you betta not make a sound
And I only like white men on my money [???]
Those who are last shall be first,
Whites on the bottom
Now they are saying that he bum rushed the officer ,coming full speed at him when he was ordered to freeze,like I said before 4 shots to the arm says to me he tried real hard NOT to use deadly force.I think it was fully justified.
Mr. Neg. Enjoy your retirement down under, don't let the door hit your ass on the way out. You can then be the immigrant sponging off their government and taxpayers. Enjoy socialized medicine and better leave your guns here in the US, they don't have a 2nd amendment.
You do realize that they have poor people in Oz, right. They also have some interesting race issues with some of the real natives, who don't happen to be as lily white as the European folks running the country.
I think when you shoot someone 6 times, you aren't the one feeling threatened. I heard about "he may have been on something, he charged the police officer, it took six shots to bring him down". Then why didn't any of the three autopsies show anything? That was second hand, who was told this by Darren Wilson.
Militarization of police is a bad idea. No one should have that much control over us. They answer to us, the citizens ultimately. We are tried by a jury of our peers, it is not their job or responsibility to play god, judge, jury, or executioner.
These police in ferguson have shown a gross abuse of power, between how they've handled the protesting down to how they've tried countless times to lie about every scenario to make Darren Wilson seem justified. He's a murderer, plain and simple. If you don't agree I don't think you're a racist, I think you have too much faith in a system that fails us.
Puppydad http://fox2now.com/2014/08/19/officer-involved-shooting-in-north-st-louis-2/
Authorities say a man tried to rob the 5-Star Market convenience store with a knife.
The store owner says he got into a dispute with the man.
Police were called but the suspect refused to put down the weapon. He tried to attack police and was shot and killed.
Seems to me like it's time for mistergoogle to move to Australia..... utopia on planet earth, apparently....
Mark Mc. said:
"It's interesting that those of use who have mentioned - and been ridiculed for mentioning - police militarization in other posts are now noticing those who ridiculed us starting to say the same things...
Military gear (MRAP's, woodland camouflage, and M-16's at the ready) is NOT the same thing as riot gear (padded vests, batons, and plexiglass shields).
Just to say (in advance of someone trying to post a "gotcha") it isn't the "gear" that's the problem (because I support the right to own those tools), it's the "mentality" that most officers have when they put it on and try to assert their authority looking for cases of "contempt of cop"."
I came to this thread a bit late, so missed this post. Absolutely, positively, 100% ON THE MONEY.
Great idea to move to Australia JR. Mr Negative and I can retire, take our Social-ist Security benefits down under. I always knew Mr N. was a closet socialist.
fitter Puppydad, I guess you making the assumption that he's a murderer puts YOU as the judge and jury. I guess you know all of the facts of the case, have seen all the videos, interviewed all of the witnesses and reviewed every last piece of evidence. I think not sir! YOU don't have a clue about what happened and have NO idea what Officer Wilson experienced. To be brutally honest, people like you are what's causing all this ruckus. Not getting the facts and then reacting to media hype. Typical ignorance by most these days. I guess Officer Wilson should have had his weapon stolen and been beaten harder by, the outstanding citizen of the year, Mr. Brown (18 year old with a hardened criminal's rap sheet). Officer Wilson should be getting a commendation and not anything less.
http://www.stltoday.com/news/opinion/a-message-to-the-people-of-ferguson/article_ea8b7358-67a3-5187-af8c-169567f27a0d.html
Holder has sent a message to the people of Ferguson
blah blah. All the same recycled emotional stuff going on here.
What this comes down to is: Was this self defense or not?
It doesn't matter the character of either person, nor does it matter what transpired minutes or hours or days prior. What matters are the actions taken *at the time of the shooting* that resulted in the death of this guy. Whatever, it doesn't matter. All that matters is what happened AT THE TIME OF THE SHOOTING. PERIOD. The rest is just sensationalism.
Time will tell.
http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2014/08/19/it-has-to-stop-more-than-30-arrested-after-another-violent-night-in-ferguson/
"Ferguson Looter: ‘I’m Proud Of Us, We Deserve This"
"Ferguson Looter: ‘I’m Proud Of Us, We Deserve This"
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is one of the major problems with this country: the entitlement mentality. I DESERVE this, I have a RIGHT to this (even if the Bill of Rights doesn't say so), created and fostered by our own government. For votes and control.
It's a sad state of the nation.
justintime,
Just an FYI, Police Officers are not held to the same "self defense" standards are ordinary citizens. Also, your statements of "It doesn't matter the character of either person, nor does it matter what transpired minutes or hours or days prior" are way off. I guess its doesn't matter in your little world what someone does prior to an incident. I think it does sir. Think about this a little more and it should make sense, but it your case, maybe not.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/08/breaking-report-po-darren-wilson-suffered-orbital-blowout-fracture-to-eye-socket-during-encounter-with-mike-brown/
"Officer Darren Wilson Suffered “Orbital Blowout Fracture to Eye Socket” During Mike Brown Attack"
starting to sound like self defense to me
From the 'leftie' Station CNN:
Dueling narratives
The officer who killed Brown says the teenager rushed at him full speed in the moments before the shooting, according to an account phoned in to a St. Louis radio station and confirmed by a source with detailed knowledge of the investigation.
According to the version on KFTK, phoned in by a woman who identified herself as "Josie," the altercation on August 9 began after Officer Darren Wilson rolled down his window to tell Brown and a friend to stop walking in the street.
When Wilson tried to get out of his cruiser, Brown first tried to push the officer back into the car, then punched him in the face and grabbed for his gun before breaking free after the gun went off once, the caller said
Witness: 'I knew this was not right'
Wilson pursued Brown and his friend, ordering them to freeze, according to the account. When they turned around, Brown began taunting Wilson, saying he would not arrest them, then ran at the officer at full speed, the caller said.
Wilson then began shooting. The final shot was to Brown's forehead, and the teenager fell two or three feet in front of Wilson, said the caller, who identified herself as the officer's friend.
A source with detailed knowledge of the investigation later told CNN the caller's account is "accurate," in that it matches what Wilson has told investigators.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/15/justice/ferguson-missouri-cop-profile/
The best massage I have ever seen on this subject from another form
Chris steve • an hour ago
I've seen quite a few of "these comments" that are from blacks. They are not all from whites. Let me help you with the why you are angry bit--you've been played.
For about a week all you heard was a narrative from the media that an innocent, young, cherubic, kind, gentle teen was shot in cold blood by a racist, bigoted cop. You had no reason to believe anything different, as that was what the media fed to you. Understandably, you became quite emotionally invested in the story.
Now facts are coming out. It is damn hard to take something you have been so emotionally invested in and completely alter your view based on facts. This would happen to any of us. You are understandably angry. Now you need to learn to direct your anger at the appropriate source--the Democrat party, their agenda, and the liberal media that serves them.
My addition to the column. And Jackson and Sharpton keeping you down on the plantation.
TBGO - are you saying that there is a difference between killing someone attacking you who's an honors student and killing someone attacking you who's a drug addict?
No, sorry, I'm not the one who has it wrong.
Regarding a police officer having authority to murder someone in self defense, how does that differ from you murdering someone in self defense?
It was self defense Skippy...but 'they' have other plans....the Race War is about to begin
Eric Holder is dispatching 40 'prosecutors' to Ferguson!
You know...THE ERIC HOLDER.....
"Eric Holder .. the DOJ Attorney General of Fast and Furious .. where thousands of assault weapons are given to the Mexican Drug Cartels and which are then used to kill over 300 Mexican citizens and one American Border Agent.
Eric Holder .. the DOJ Attorney General who stopped an investigation into civil rights violations when Black Panthers were threatening citizens at voting booths.
Eric Holder ... the DOJ administrator who sues over voter I.D. laws legally enacted by states to protect the integrity of the vote.
Eric Holder ... the DOJ Attorney General who has illegally spied on reporters who have disagreed with the administration including those at the Associated Press.
Eric Holder ... the DOJ administrator who has engaged in bullying tactics commonly used by racial hatred baiters as evidenced by his proclamations regarding the Trayvon Martin case.
Eric Holder ... the DOJ Attorney General who moved the trials of the terrorists in Gitmo, including Kaleid Sheik Mohammed, the mastermind behind 9-11, from military to criminal court in New York City. They have an inordinate amount of attorneys on staff who fought the U.S. on behalf of the terrorists… pro bono.
Eric HJolder ...he DOJ Attornehy General who turns his back on the 'civil rights violations' of conservative groups being targeted by the IRS
Eric Holder ... the DOJ Attorney General who so disgracefully refused to investigate any of the numerous Obama scandals and has lied under oath defiantly several times".
I borrowed this comment also from a blogger that sums it all up!
""Mr. Holder is there to make sure the white boy gets lynched. Doesn't matter what the witnesses saw, what the facts are, even though it is a local police matter. The DOJ has abandoned all pretenses that this is(was) a nation of laws; we are now a full fledged banana republic."""
Ihttp://www.stltoday.com/news/opinion/a-message-to-the-people-of-ferguson/article_ea8b7358-67a3-5187-af8c-169567f27a0d.html
GET THIS :They are calling it Holders ''FAST AND FERGUSON!"
It would be funny....if it weren't so serious! These marxists are playing for Keeps! and America is Losing!
They have undermined & decimated our Military and now they are going after our Law Enforcement!
I think we should 'prep' for a long siege! Where is superman when you need him?
JIT "BGO - are you saying that there is a difference between killing someone attacking you who's an honors student and killing someone attacking you who's a drug addict?"
If it comes down to he said, she said, it makes a huge difference imo.
This case has really brought out the worst in all groups and shows the continued extreme polarization of the Country. This entire situation has been handled so badly by every single group involved which includes the family supporters, community leaders, Police/local authorities and media.
I fear that this one is going to leave its mark for a very long time.
Actually LV Mom, if it comes down to he said she said that means there is not enough evidence to determine guilt. You can't just make up sh*t based on maybe-this, maybe-that to convict people, you know that whole innocent until *proven* guilty stuff our legal system is based on...
"you know that whole innocent until *proven* guilty stuff our legal system is based on..."
Well, to be honest if I make that statement in today's kill-em-all-without-proof environment I should have wrote *used* to be based on. How very sad for all of us :-(
OLD GENT -
Another post in this thread 100% correct- the media borders on propaganda, pushing an agenda. The level at which they have been "playing" the American people has been rising exponentially in recent years, and it seems they are happy to be played. The media has turned the world into one big "reality show", accent on the "show", turning real events into entertainment for the masses.
Again, a sad commentary on what the people of this country have allowed it, and THEMSELVES, to be turned into. Useful idiots.
And the beat (down) goes on.......
"The officer who killed Brown says the teenager rushed at him full speed in the moments before the shooting, according to an account phoned in to a St. Louis radio station and confirmed by a source with detailed knowledge of the investigation."
This "Josie" is relating a story told to her by a friend of someone who said they saw it. Second or third hand at best.
Again, until the eyewitness accounts are vetted, the forensic evidence revealed, the police accounts put on record, we basically just have a lot of conjecture. JIT is right in my book, ""you know that whole innocent until *proven* guilty stuff our legal system is based on..."
Well, to be honest if I make that statement in today's kill-em-all-without-proof environment I should have wrote *used* to be based on. How very sad for all of us :-("
How sad that some are jumping the gun to convict not only individuals but groups based on their own baggage. I know, it's the liberal's fault.
"The line between news reporting and opinion is blurring in Ferguson, Missouri, as some national journalists inject their perspective and even themselves into the story."
Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2014/08/ferguson-media-110169.html
I think the time has come to PLASTER designations of whether it's NEWS or OPINION. And NEWS shows should be held to a strict set of regulations with enforcement for violations.
I am so tired of opinion shows masking themselves as news and news shows offering insights and opinions either in news stories or alongside the news. Used to be they would plaster a big EDITORIAL logo whenever they put up an opinion piece.
mg,
I agree that would be wonderful. Problem is, WHO does the policing? The govt. Can the govt- EITHER PARTY, regardless of who's in power- be trusted? Methinks not.
As I have been saying for quite awhile now, "news" in America borders on propaganda. There are alot of concerning and downright scary parallels to what has happened in the past, in Europe.
Brad, I agree.
JR --- Journalists should set the stage, determine the rules, and umpire the game. It is their game, they need to make it clean. All we can do is vote with our ratings.
This "freedom of speech" can't be regulated, it needs to be orchestrated by those who work there on behalf on their consumers who vote with their ratings.
I'm floored by Governor Nixon's statement.. possibly prejudicing the grand jury before they even get started.
"A vigorous prosecution must now be pursued"- Gov. Nixon
I always thought that a vigorous investigation comes first, indictment second and than prosecution??
Something really stinks in Missouri and it's not the tear gas.
A must see...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gysWzwUWfA
ignatz He must be very skilled to shoot and hit a target six times with an orbital blowout fracture.
http://www.aapos.org/terms/conditions/28
African-American police officer shoots and kills unarmed 20-year white "kid" in Utah
WITH VIDEO
http://www.wnd.com/2014/08/black-cop-kills-white-man-media-hide-race/
OK, outrage ON people! Let's hear it! Cries of racism!
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/08/20/holder-ferguson-investigation/14356869/
"FERGUSON, MO. — Attorney General Eric Holder flew to Ferguson, Mo., on Wednesday as the nation's chief law enforcement officer leading an investigation into a police shooting.
He also arrived as an African-American who said he understands the racial tensions that have fueled days of protests that have been marred by violence and mass arrests since the Aug. "
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_POLICE_SHOOTING_MISSOURI?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-08-20-14-22-04
"ST. LOUIS (AP) -- To reassure the people of Ferguson, Attorney General Eric Holder reached into his own past, recalling the times he had been stopped by police officers who seemed to target him because of his race."
no bias here right... way to fuel the fires guys..
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/20/missouri-cop-was-badly-beaten-before-shooting-michael-brown-says-source/
More statements on the incident from police
Here's yer protests, Huckleberry. You just had to get your head out of the racists news toilet and look.
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/58304981-78/police-taylor-lake-salt.html.csp
And there are stories in many publications.
Meanwhile, your WND bible of bable , which you quote your "news" from, has a pretty unprofessional past as noted in snipets from WIKI:
- After 911, WND: "In his column, LoBaido outlined what he regarded as the moral depravity of America in general and New York in particular, asking whether, "God (has) raised up Shiite Islam as a sword against America." "(owner/editor) Farah to respond with a column of his own explaining that the article did not reflect the viewpoint of WND, and that it, like most other commentary pieces, had not been reviewed before being published" Yeah, review would be uncalled for.
- WorldNetDaily "claiming that Obama is not a natural-born American citizen and is thus not eligible to serve as president" tinfoil hat time.
- An Al Gore/fundraiser story about the wrongdoings of the fundraiser ended in a libel suit settled out of court with: "A settlement statement jointly drafted by all parties in the lawsuit stated that a Freedom of Information Act request showed that the allegations had been false, and that WND had misquoted sources." Methinks WND put a little money on the table for that one.
- When Farah called out Coulter for just speaking to an LBDT group, it ended with "after Farah published private emails between himself and Coulter, Coulter called him a “publicity whore” and a “swine” in an email to the Daily Caller blog."
Oh yeah, news pro's fer sure.
MG - Nothing in your link points to any cries of racism, just police accountability (or lack thereof) and militarization. Something we can all agree on...
Perhaps those getting shot didn't take the advice from this level headed, respectable cop (/sarcasm)...
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/08/daniel-zimmerman/quote-of-the-day-dont-give-me-lip-edition/
mg, looking for cries of racism from THOSE "huckleberrys" IN THIS THREAD who cried racism previously in this thread.
But I'm sure you knew that.
Then, you go into "Rules for radicals" mode as you attempt to assassinate the character of WND, as if to say because they got another story wrong, this one is of course also wrong. Apparently you didn't WATCH THE VIDEO in the link, as it was of LOCAL NEWS BROADCASTERS giving the story. WND just linked to it.
SOS from you.
I also didn't read anything in that link about the protestors looting the Osmonds' family home or burning down the Mormon Tabernacle, either
ianimal OK, you're right, WND should not be held in contempt just because they regularly put SWAGS in new stories when it fits their agenda. What's a little exaggeration, a bit of a white lie.
In this latest version, WND says: "While national news media continue to focus on race in Ferguson, Missouri, where a white police officer shot and killed an unarmed black teenager, they apparently don’t think a similar case in Utah with the races reversed is that newsworthy." OK, stage is set, now with the facts: so far the WND designated "Black Cop" has been called "not white" by all so far. Probably black, but only WND knows/makes it up. Meanwhile, Taylor is Hispanic which is not exactly white at least if I read my HL correctly. However, thanks to George Zimmerman and the New York Times, Taylor can be a "white Hispanic."
Second, unlike Ferguson where a long history of white police violence against blacks exists; actually any police violence in Ferguson is probably white on black...., Salt Lake City police may not have any history of black police on white violence much less non-white police on white-Hispanic violence.
WND just likes to make its own flow and then go with the flow.....
Yes, many questions to answer in Salt Lake City as to whether there was a gun, whether Taylor even matched the perp they were looking for or was this wrongful death-due-to-headphones. And police here seem to be a little slow on the draw with transparency.
But in Ferguson, where a long history of white cops abusing black suspects and honest citizens exists, Brown's case was just the spark to an existing tinderbox. Very little black representation on the police force, and a questionable history of racial profiling and abuse are just a few of Ferguson's problems. Look at the stats on the table in this story, they are compelling indicators of a problem: http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/08/how-much-racial-profiling-happens-in-ferguson/378606/
The funny thing is even with the racial skew for being detained, police found more contraband on white people. That's how the blacks are fooling the cops, they're selling it to the white guys before they get detained! Actually even white Ferguson residents think the cops are heavy handed.
Police crime stats are unavailable due to major errors in the data....
A landmark civil case filed for resident charged with destruction of property for bleeding on police uniforms after taking a beating.
Sued twice in Federal Court since 2008 over civil rights issues.
Again, not condoning violence, it is never right. But can understand how the tinderbox could ignite.
I just don't think Salt Lake City's police history is quite the same so would not expect the same result for a "not white" policeman shooting a "white Hispanic" youth. And like Ferguson, too early to judge without all the facts on the table. Unlike WND which has no problem judging with facts not even presented.
"Unlike WND which has no problem judging with facts not even presented."
...which is exactly what several on this thread have done in the Ferguson incident. Not to mention mainstream media's handling of the situation. Point proven.
Oh definitely on this thread but if you keep posting this WND crud, where do you fall?
Not so much with legitimate news outlets although certainly have crossed the line between opinion and fact. But rarely are making stuff up and then drawing opinion based on what they made up. WND crosses that line regularly as do some on HL.
I mean not-white cop becomes black, white-Hispanic kid becomes white and then WND questions why media doesn't cover reverse black-on-white discrimination and racism based on WND's own fabrication. That's a stretch.
BBC world news America at 5:30 gives you a much more in depth view of events all over the world. Not perfect, but so much better than the main stream news outlets here.
Denis There is a local channel on comcast that has world news..wnyj..used to be a religious channel
Well, legitimate (most of the non-cable network) and decent are two different things especially now when even legitimate news shows seem to be interspersing opinion along with trying to report the facts.
(incoming)
Fox cable is not too bad (far from perfect), Bill O'Reilly has made some valid points.
Many of these commentators so called journalists are just network actors/puppets and make it difficult to discern between factual and fabrication.
I watch and read different media outlets and I try to filter out the garbage and try to gather the real facts and than form an opinion from there. However, I nor anyone else should have to do that in order to get to the truth.
It's a shame that it has come to this, I remember the days when the news was actual news given to us by true professionals, like Walter Cronkite and no I'm not that old but apparently he made a lasting impresssion on me.
Fox cable is no better than MSNBC except if one agrees with the agenda. Both intersperse news, quasi news, and opinion without labeling what they are doing. Plus Fox Cable is prone to numerous factual errors, more than most cable networks.
Bill O'Reilly is as newsworthy as Jon Stewart. You may learn some facts, you may gain some insights, but both are OP-ED actors entertaining us with their opinions.
Yes, PBS seems fair but I would gather many feel leans left of center, but again, the networks seem less biased and better at separating news from editorial than cable where news/editorial are blended at will. But as we have noted, even the networks in the case of Ferguson and beyond have stumbled mightily expressing many opinions in place of "just the facts Mam"
"networks seem less biased"
yea, to the liberals maybe, and that's because the network news teams are over 75% democrats, including the anchors and the feature reporters, the on air talent and the back room news producers who shape the major network news, 75 - 80 % democrats. and it shows. btw, they make lots of mistakes, they have an agenda just like everyone else does,
don't really care if the libs (mg and yf) agree with me or not, it happens to be quite true; (do your own research) it's just not important to me to convince the unconvinceable , so don't even go there, with the Pavlov dog knee-jerk nit picking spew-olla, just don't have time for the baloney today, or for liberally dizzy spinning.
BrotherDog A Quest for Truth: A List of the Top 8 Unbiased News Sources - See more at: http://blog.debate.org/2012/08/24/a-quest-for-truth-a-list-of-the-top-8-unbiased-news-sources/#sthash.WXQnfXy1.dpuf
BDog: I think it's cute that you can tell the political party of folks on network news. It's a conspiracy foisted by conservative wonks trying to drum up ratings....... And sure, they make factual mistakes, just far less than Fox Cable. And they put up corrections.
Skippy, good list although I am not sure about CNN. Also HL does not believe in WIKI.....you know, free speech :>) With 24x7 coverage they tend to go off the reservation. Plus it was a 2012 article, wonder how Al Jeereza would fare. Wonder if Liberal Muslim equates to balanced American?
In London they 8 or 9 newspapers each with their own particular political point of view..I wish a similar situation existed in NYC..no need for neutrality..just more voices
Here is a 2014 list with ratings - http://newstrust.net/sources
unfortunately taking news in this manner requires research and thought. Many people seem to like the slant fed to them
wrong again, it happens to be quite true that the network news teams are 3/4 democrats,
they have so much skin in the game they just cannot be trusted to give an unbiased news report. they have protected obama and ridiculed republicans ceaselessly, throughout both terms, the reason for that is that they voted for him, twice.
Well Skip, I liked your first one but this one is bogus; Many of these "trusted sources" lean to one side or the other; LA Times is certainly not objective nor are many of the others listed there.
BDog: How could I be wrong by asking about the 75%? Since when does asking a question make one wrong? And if you repeat what you said before that elicited said question, does that make you right? Would that number of Democrats be exactly 75%? Source?
I just don't know how anyone could find the political persuasion of all of the network news teams which has to include talking heads, writers, editors, management, owners etc. etc. etc. I know many surveys have been done, but most fall below 75% and are somewhat dated before the advent of conservative networks.
Plus bias is not necessarily determined by your political affiliation, is it?
Meanwhile the world evolves. So, from an ownership level, here's how the various media outlets contribute to the two parties:
Bain Capital owns Clear Channel and the majority of radio in America ---- way conservative.
CBS --- lefty oh yeah
Comcast owns NBC et al and leans oh so slightly left.
Gannett -- most magazines, on-line and 23 tv stations and leans oh so slightly left
News Corp --- FOX, WSJ, lots of print, on-line and TV --- righty oh yeah
Walt Disney/ABC --- ABC, pretty much left
Washington Post --- lots of newspapers, pretty much left
So I would say the right owns the radio, the left much of the print, and the tv is more to the left than right, but 75% --- that still seems mighty high to me.
From the completely impartial Onion:
WASHINGTON—Shedding light on law enforcement practices across the country, a Department of Justice study released Friday revealed that more than three-fourths of minority suspects in police custody receive their Miranda rights while unconscious. “In 79 percent of arrests involving blacks or Latinos, suspects were administered their rights while prostrate on the concrete, collapsed against a police car, or blacking out in the midst of a chokehold,” stated the report, which examined 2,000 arrests made last year where minority suspects remained either conscious, unconscious, or slowly drifting in and out of consciousness. “The data also confirmed that among non-white arrests last year, most police officers made an effort to determine if the suspect had a pulse before reading from their warning card.” The report further concluded that 98 percent of African-American suspects had their Miranda rights administered in between blows of a police baton.
you don't comprehend what you read so good, not trying to convince the unconvinceable, and that'd be you, it's useless engaging with you in your myopyia, i'm afraid you have a terminal case.
as i said before do your own research, (can't prove me wrong, because i'm right about this) and don't nit pick, it's 70 - 80 % democratic liberals in the network news rooms, the on air talent, the producers and the feature reporters, they are all democrats and it colors their news coverage every single day. they cover for obama with all of his failuers and scandals and trumpet up anything that makes republicans look bad, they are biased.
cbs, nbc, abc, npr, cnn, cspan, 70 - 80 % of them are leftists, and democratic party supporters.
this is a fact that is true
btw, it's another strawman on your part to equate corp ownership with the on air staff party affiliations, as if they were equal; so you just did it again, par for the course, sad really
btw the roberts brothers who own comcast which now owns NBC Universal which includes, NBC network news and the msnbc are BIG time obama donors and good buddies with the prez. no bias there yeah right . . . . . . and comcast is trying to buy time-warner which owns CNN, so these two guys will have major league influence over what news gets aired on your tv set. not good long term, this colors the great majority of news to be up with blue, down with red.
that's another inconvenient fact of our modern times
'
I don't need any data ( By Who) on this subject of Right or Left. I can make my own judgments.
Strawman?
"I just don't know how anyone could find the political persuasion of all of the network news teams which has to include talking heads, writers, editors, management, owners etc. etc. "
Where I have worked, management generally manages but owners own.
I have met with Roberts Jr., been preached to by Roberts Sr., and trust me, that's a family owned, family persuaded operation. Here's the 2014 contributions, looks pretty Red to me: https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/summary.php?id=D000000461
Here's the last decade or so and you will note a slight lean to the left, but perhaps you are right in a way. Comcast seems to give to the party in power over the years, crafty cable business guys: https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/totals.php?id=D000000461&cycle=2014
Sure, writers, editors, etc are important but how can you underestimate the power of the management and owners. I have seen first-hand the elder Roberts delve into the most micro of management and everyone realizes at Comcast it's his way or the highway.
And by the way, I did my own research and I can not find 75%. Now do yours.
Rupert Murdoch aint no conservative
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/five-myths-about-rupert-murdoch/2013/11/08/341837ea-47bf-11e3-b6f8-3782ff6cb769_story.html
You're right, I'm wrong. NewsCorp does lean slightly left even with Fox leaning totally right in terms of political party contributions.
Which means the Dog is right, the media leans left.
However still does not mean 75% of all network news employees are Democrat. Still waiting on the source for that whopper.
http://fair.org/fair-studies/
Interesting studies on Media bias in the United States
I think this may be the article MG - don't shoot the messenger..
"The Democratic Party received a total donation of $1,020,816, given by 1,160 employees of the three major broadcast television networks (NBC, CBS, ABC), while the Republican Party received only $142,863 via 193 donations. Both of these figures represent donations made in 2008."
Work cited: "Obama, Democrats got 88 percent of 2008 contributions by TV network execs, writers, reporters UPDATED!", Washington Examiner, August 27, 2010. Retrieved November 12, 2013.
http://washingtonexaminer.com/article/130902
"Jim A. Kuypers of Dartmouth College investigated the issue of media bias in the 2002 book Press Bias and Politics. In this study of 116 mainstream US papers, including The New York Times, The Washington Post, the Los Angeles Times, and the San Francisco Chronicle, Kuypers stated that the mainstream press in America tends to favor liberal viewpoints. They argued that reporters who they thought were expressing moderate or conservative points of view were often labeled as holding a minority point of view. Kuypers said he found liberal bias in reporting a variety of issues including race, welfare reform, environmental protection, and gun control"
Work Cited: Robert B. Bluey (2002-09-17). "Professor's Study Shows Liberal Bias in News Media". Cybercast News Service (CNS). Archived from the original on 2008-02-05.
http://web.archive.org/web/20080205062048/ http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewCulture.asp?Page=/Culture/archive/200209/CUL20020917b.html
It will all soon be over.
Brown will be laid to rest.
The protesters / riot instigators are fewer now.
The media will be pulled out eventually; as long as there are no future big incidents.
Generally, people are tired of it already. Enough!
There will be payoffs going to many hands on both sides, and then the circus in the courts will be the next episode; and life goes on!
In My Court.... You Rush a Cop in his car, and when he gets out, and you rush him again.....and he shoots your @$$... "You Lose!" ...
Embryodad 
also looks like P.O Wilson has a 294k defense that is fully funded
http://www.gofundme.com/SupportOfficerWilson
and another 84 K
https://www.gofundme.com/OfficerWilsonFundraiser
Exec's at Hawaiian punch are meeting as we speak to begin damage control. Some supermarkets are pulling it off the shelves.
"Exec's at Hawaiian punch are meeting as we speak to begin damage control. Some supermarkets are pulling it off the shelves."
What??? Why in the world would they do that? I searched and didn't find any news stories about this. Have a link? That would be a totally idiotic move by Dr Pepper for sure.
Not to mention that the picture with the Hawaiian Punch isn't even Michael Ferguson..
www.dailydot.com/news/missouri-cop-michael-brown-ferguson-marc-catron/
While the crime committed by the person in the picture is horrendous, it's not right to post pictures and pass them around as being fact when it isn't. Sadder yet is that a cop posted it. It only feeds into the "he deserved it" mentality many have. Pet peeve of mine, the posting of photo's and stories that aren't true..
Bessie Justintime..I am, LOL. It has reached the point that you simply can't believe anything you see without researching it first. I used to be a big news watcher but there are days that I can't handle it anymore and stay away until "the rest of the story" is told. I tend to be the person that calls out the person that has called out the "Starbucks doesn't support our troops" poster if you know what I mean. I think I've made a few enemies along the way. Honestly, I woke up 3 times last night thinking about that picture that was shared here and decided I had to comment. I hate being in the controversies here but that bothered me.
PS Correction on my post, should read Michael Brown in Ferguson MO..
I cant believe someone actually searched my idiotic post ! LOL This forum is funnier than the Sunday funnies.
Bessie, the good news is these frauds are pretty easy to catch, most often they leave clues and trails. First clue on this one ---- Facebook page!. Usually when you sniff a bad smell, a simple search reveals the truth.
Generally if the lie does not jump out on the first search, if I see only conservative regurgitations or liberal sources, I tend to do a bit deeper searching. Especially if the sources are mostly "risk free" like many of these internet "news" outlets which have little risk in taking factual chances and printing without dual or triple sources.
OK, speaking of spin, back to the unimportant pertinent stuff....:>) Yeah Skipster, that's what I am talking about in terms of not really proving that 75% of all TV news employees are Democrat.
First, the year is 2008, we are in 2014. Second, these are PAC and 527 contributions, not employee counts. So what have we learned; that more people gave more money to Democrats VIA PACs and 527's from NETWORK TV basically, the top six corps I summarized ten years of similar data. However, when I looked, I looked at all donations, not just PACs and 527's.
Then they went inside that data to cherry pick some names, this data probably includes donations outside the PACs/527s since that's how the data is organized: I can not do that to double check, you need to get formal permission. But I am guessing that those anecdotes include different areas of contribution than the rest of the story.
The lack of conclusion from this story, beyond the dating, is whether 75% of the employees are Democrat. We just know about the givers, not the non givers which for all we know might be 99% of the Republicans in those organizations. Nor does the data show the total contributions from either the corporations (that's the data I looked at including not only just the PACs and 527s but also the corporation backing which will be HUGE going forward thanks to the SCOTUS) or the individuals outside the corporation although some of that might be mixed in the anecdotes for individual giving.
That said, it is clear the media and entertainment businesses lean left at least in terms of their contributions. Maybe not severely in every single election cycle, but mostly.
Still does not say the employees of all media are 75% Democrat
Darren Wilson’s first job was on a troubled police force disbanded by authorities because of so much tension between white officers and black residents
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/darren-wilsons-first-job-was-on-a-troubled-police-force-disbanded-by-authorities/2014/08/23/1ac796f0-2a45-11e4-8593-da634b334390_story.html?wpmk=MK0000203
Story says Officer Wilson had a clean record while on that dept Leroy. So what may I ask is the relevancy to the current incident ?
This is absolutely ridiculous. Every time a white cop kills a black man it is immediately a racist case, but black people kill white people, rob white people, rape white people, and that is just every day life according to how the news portrays it.
Keep it up ferguson....that way cops will now be afraid to do their jobs when confronted with a violent african american person, because they will be afraid of situations like this happening and the repercussions....then the cops will get killed for not reacting in time, and we will have to hear about how horrible guns are because of it.
Absolutely ridiculous!!!
Adam Just catching up on this thread...I don't 'do' political threads, because I don't keep up with all the news...just too busy at this season of my life. ( I know, that's no excuse.)
But having admitted that, and having scanned a few responses, there are a number of replies from" newer responders" that made a lot of sense and caused me to see beyond the actual incident. Many thanks to Seintje Smith and Old Gent and I hope you will keep posting.
To all the 'long time posters' that faithfully share their opinions on these political posts, I thank you too, because imo, it shows the various ways of looking at a topic quicker than watching different news programs. All the responses help me make more informed choices personally and while voting. Just wanted to let ya all know
your words are appreciated whether I agree with them or not. I love living in America, with freedom, flaws and all! ; )
Brad, yes, that's a lot a data, did you double check all of it? Once again, I submit that the media leans left and that the media leans left I submit once again but that there's no proof that 75% of network news workers are Democrat.
Your compendium of statistical data does not say that 75% of the TV news media is Democrat. Quite the opposite, it says:
"•In a 1988 survey of business reporters, 54% of respondents identified themselves as Democrats, 9% as Republicans.
•In a 1992 poll of journalists working for newspapers, magazines, radio, and television, 44% called themselves Democrats, 16% Republicans.
•In a 1996 poll of 1,037 reporters at 61 newspapers, 61% identified themselves as Democrats, 15% as Republicans.
•In a 2001 Kaiser Family Foundation poll, media professionals were nearly 7 times likelier to call themselves Democrats rather than Republicans.
•A 2014 study by Indiana University's School of Journalism found that just 7.1% of all journalists identified themselves as Republicans, vs, 28.1% who self-identified as Democrats and 50.2% who said they were Independents."
So unless as Independents are Democrats..... And the 1996 study with the highest ratio of Democrats leaves little room for independents of which there are about 42%.....
Now I could run through your data and discount much since some of the errors stick out like the smell spoiled milk when you pop the top off the bottle, but again ---- the end result is that the media leans left. Just not the gloom n doom story portrayed by that laundry list.
I did cherry pick one data sample and that was the voting data which I find interesting since obviously this must be survey based volunteered answers since there is not automatic public disclosure of poll data. Most of this data is based on a 1986 oft-quoted survey, the ole The Media Elite. That gem has a survey of 238 journalists from major outlets including print, tv, etc. Just to set the size of the entire universe: Bloomberg alone has 15,000 employees. Newscorp 26,000. CNN - 4,000, Fox - 1,272, MSNBC - 600.
So, at 10,000 employees, you need a sample size of 370 to get a 5% confidence interval at a 95% confidence level. At 50,000, you need about 400 in the sample. A sample size of 238 is a bit little weak for this dataset.
Also, the survey did not include owners, managers, or editors. The survey just journalists which, for TV, might mean just the talking heads who basically control nothing. It's the writers and especially the editors that exercise the most control of the content. Just saying. Folks have also questioned "poor randomization; the inadequate use of proper polling techniques; the use of biased questions; point of view assertions by the studies authors that arbitrarily qualified some things as conservative or liberal; the failure to adequately measure the general public's attitudes; and poor statistical analysis of the results." All that aside, the sample size is just too small to be statistically valid. http://pediaview.com/openpedia/Media_elite
And, of course, who you vote for does not mean you report news in a biased fashion. That said, the media is biased to the left. If there's opinion interjected, there are more lefties than righties in the news.
Back to the data: the 1981 vote (described as covering all journalists no less) was based on 50 newspapers. That dog just don't hunt.
And the 1984 vote survey was a whopping 2,700 newpaperpersons --- that's a winner!!!! It showed a 58/42 Mondale/Reagan split when the real vote was 41/59. Not exactly a Journalistic Democratic takeover in the news room, don't see no 75%, more like a skew to the left versus a takeover when you actually sample a reasonable sample size eh. I mean 42% is barely a minority.
So in one sample from your comprehensive compendium of liberal bias statistics, I can take a number of statistical potshots without breaking a sweat; I am sure many of the other data points listed are pretty weak too. It's a sad state of affairs when folks from both sides keep getting away with this but that's the news. Always has been. How often have we heard "new survey says butter, no margarine, no butter is better...." But never, new survey is statistically invalid....
Still can't find 75% of all TV news employees being Democrat yet..... Think it's time to move on.
Next we should enter the world where the rubber meets the road ------ are the stories biased !!!!!! Not are the people looney lefty or tighty righty, but are the stories biased. News at 11 !!!!!
Some may need to read this entire story to better understand what happens when "you fit the description"
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/08/25/1324522/--When-you-fit-the-description#
Congratulations to Officer Wilson for having a spotless record in a corrupt police unit, then jerseycash. Congratulations to him for never speaking out or getting on the wrong side of any one of those corrupt cops. Indeed.
More racist black people....
http://topconservativenews.com/2014/08/us-marine-in-a-coma-after-racially-motivated-lynching-in-mississippi-police-chief-insults-victim/
Let's hear the outrage.
Blacks are going to start a second civil war with crap like this, I understand it is not all of them, but this is absolutely ridiculous and gives all black people a very bad rep. Do they think they have a get out of jail card for free because of slavery? What allows the rules black people follow to be so different then white people? I just don't understand
5catmom, you can't blame the cops for actions like this, maybe if black people were not so well known for violent crimes this stuff wouldn't happen, it's all brought on by particular members of their own race's actions. White people simply cannot trust black people, and it is getting worse
Adam-your post is so uncalled for and WRONG! Go back to playing video games and stay off the forum. You did say "not all of them", but reading the rest of your post, you pretty much meant "all of them".
adam......beliefs like yours, condemming all for the acts of a few ARE a big part of the problem...SMH
and, by the way, I trust the black people I went to school with, taught, worked with, socialize with more than I could ever trust someone like you.....full of hate and fear....
No need to respond. I'm done with this thread.....It makes me sick.
Ignatz.....there is nothing left for me to say...running away? Hardly.........but I choose not to deal with stereotyping, bigotry and blinders.
I CLEARLY said it is not all of them.
Actions like your is what gets people killed. Just because you have a few trust worthy black friends, as do I, doesn't mean that it is safe to walk through a gang area.
Look at some of the comments people posted on JR's link......."PS: Occasionally, blacks will warn you an area isn't safe. Don't get an attitude of "No black is going to tell ME where I can go!" They're trying to do you a favor. Listen to them."
If that was the vice verse, a white person telling the black they couldn't come in.....who would be the racist? I am so sick and tired of the one way street, and it is getting worse.... because we allow it to get worse...everything a white person says or does towards a black person makes them or gets them questioned about being a racist. Black people can act one way, but it is not okay for white people to act the same?
Ferguson.... no such riot have ever occurred over the shooting of a white person, so why is it allowed over a black? Let me get this straight, the logical solution to the upsetting killing of a so called innocent man is more violence towards cops???? WONDERFUL idea! IMHO it makes their case even worse, how about handling the situation (right or wrong) like adults? NOT BARBARIANS, then maybe your rep wouldn't be so bad.
@Adam - yes, you clearly said it's not all of them but the actions of a few "gives all black people a very bad rep" - that's what you said
"White people simply cannot trust black people, and it is getting worse"
i trust people on a case by case basis..... and now i don't trust Adam.
Adam says he has "a few trust worthy black friends. " Then he says "White people simply cannot trust black people, and it is getting worse"
I think the first statement is a ridiculous lie and the second statement speaks for itself.
5catmom,
"No need to respond. I'm done with this thread.....It makes me sick"
I knew you would be back :-)
If you are going to dress the dress, walk the walk, it is presumed you will act the act as well, otherwise don't do the first two? Common sense
As much as everyone wants to play goody two shoes in this situation if you were in Newark and saw a black person who was possibly approaching your car, you mean to tell me you wouldn't check to make sure your doors are locked? Because according to our president that makes you a racist, as well as a discriminater
I lock my doors when I see anyone approaching my car........
OK, back to racial violence b-w or w-b; all bad.... But JR posts a story with the word Lynching in the title. BUSTED. No lynching. Shouldn't post such shoddy journalism.
Second, there is some national press coverage and lots of local, one man is already arrested and charged, more arrests are pending as they review the video, hate crime charges being reviewed by DA for Grand Jury decision. Victim is in fair condition today. It happened Saturday so it will be interesting to see if more national coverage is coming.
Outrage, sure. It is a terrible crime. It deserves outrage. Coverage, sure: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/08/25/beaten-man-restaurant/14598819/ But is this a growing trend for blacks to target whites in this area or just an incident?
Different than Ferguson shooting. Absolutely. This is a single crime, not a multi-year oft repeated trend. An arrest has already been made and more will come once the tapes are reviewed. Justice is being metered out swiftly and there are really only a couple of questions: why the delay in police arrival and was this a hate crime. Both are being reviewed but worthy of monitoring.
Should whites protest the fact that justice is swift? Or that fights happen?
Contrast that with years of Ferguson police abuse and brutality targeted at a specific group within a community; police who are segregated from reality forming a white team against a black community. A questionable shooting with six hits in an unarmed man suspected of disrupting traffic to spark unrest fueled by years of bad police work. No arrests made. Much fumbling in the police communications and actions. And the protests are basically calling for justice, a fair and impartial review of the incident. Yes, the violence in the protests is abhorrent and should be condemned. But the protestors request for justice seems fair enough.
Seems to me to be two very different things.
It is unfortunate, yes, but it is the rep they have given themselves more so then any other race.
Lets stick to the topic,
Look at Ferguson, prime example.....there is now a riot consisting of do no wrong goody two shoes black people who without thinking twice turned completely violent against cops, they are now all criminals
I look at this as a problem caused by the social engineers and the PC police. In my growing up years, the city was divided up in sections of different ethnic neighborhoods. Those sections had a name for those in their neighborhoods that did not measure up to common decently. I could name them all, but it probably would be taken down. No flags were seen except American flags. Only on special holidays ethnic ones were shown. Now all are thought of as one group from a political stand point. Divided and conquered. I grew up in a mixed block. I could write a book about those times and where everyone wound up. Monetarily we were all pretty much in the same boat. You would not believe how much we looked out for each other. Today we don't even know our neighbors. My fathers fishing buddy was a motor cycle cop ( a Swede) in the Italian section. He knew every card game, Mafia meeting and people in that neighborhood. He knew when to brake things up and when to overlook things. He was assigned to schools let out times. He got to know all the children for years He was very well respected.
Adam-if I saw a black, white, hispanic, asian, (person), etc..... approaching my car, whether in Newark, Htown, Basking Ridge, etc... I would check to make sure my doors are locked. Your comments are ridiculous. I lived in Newark over 30 yrs ago and had 1 incident and that was with a few "white boys", who wanted my car, while I was parked in a store lot. Luckily a very nice, BIG "black man" saw what was going on and chased them away. So, there goes your theory. You did say "not all" but your words say "all".
"If you are going to dress the dress, walk the walk, it is presumed you will act the act as well, otherwise don't do the first two? Common sense"
So everyone who dresses the "biker look" will behave a certain way, just as folks who have heavily tattooed themselves must be drug dealing miscreants. Got it, thanks for the clarification.
*You* may make presumptions based on visual cues only - that's your right - just know that such an ignorant world view won't go over well with many here (thank goodness).
Having been married to a black man for 31 years, I find it appalling that some might lock their doors if he approached your car. Sad to think many think so little of a race because of skin color or language spoken.
I have never seen a case where a black cop killed a white person turned into a big deal, I am positive it has happened, but why don't white people riot, loot, etc?!?!
Why is it so different and such a big deal when it is the other way around?
People say we are suppose to be equals, doesn't seem that is true
How is creating a huge riot solving anything?
The door lock comment was made because when our president came to office he gave a speech saying "I know how it is like to be a black man and to hear car doors locking when crossing the street" look it up...he created and okayed that stereotype. Unless of course it was okay for him to say it because he is black, and I cannot say it because I am white?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/19/obama-racial-profiling_n_3624881.html
justintime
And yes, if you are going to dress like a gangster and lunge at cops you are going to get shot....good clarification, thank you
many on here have blinders on and don't see that we have given miles and miles to many other races, not just blacks, and not all, but a lot of them are simply taking advantage of what has been given to them.
To try and put things in perspective, as far where much of the anger and hatred comes from in certain communities, please watch a very informative and important documentary, Runaway Slave. It's a documentary with a lot of historical references from good men and women who have lived from the effects of gov't policies (and a lot of misinformation) that are meant to keep people dependent and dumb about what's really going on around them. The people in this movie got smart and got out from under the thumb of the bullies who cloak themselves in wings and halos. You can get it from the Warren County library through inter-library loans.
http://www.runawayslavemovie.com/
Normally I would say a thread like this should be shut down. But in this case (and many other topics on HL) it exposes that there are still a lot of racist in this area. Not everyone, as it is not fair to lump all with a few. This forum has plenty of Adams on it. On one thread, its ok for a guy to work on cars where it is not legal " At least he's trying to make an honest living" some said. BUT, for day workers trying to also make an honest living, people are appalled. "They are on the corners, making our town look bad". You know what makes our town look bad: comments like the ones in this and other threads. You have to ride down Main St. in the AM to see the day workers, but you can be sitting 24-7 in the comfort of your home in Michigan to read the racist and hatred comments on this forum. The fact that racist comments like those from Adam and others are allowed to remain on to be read, says a lot about this forum. Will I be ripped for this post? Without a doubt. But will I care..................
Clyde Potts mg, once again debating with semantics, I see..... I guess that's all you've got left.
Posting a link to a news story with "lynching" in the TITLE while there was no ACTUAL lynching just totally discredits EVERYTHING in the story, apparently. You're tactics are so transparent and pathetic they are laughable. How about debating the substance once in awhile instead of attacking a reporter's poor choice of words, as if to say the ONE poor choice of word means the report MUST be fiction.
Sad, really.
Clyde - Won't come from me, way too many Adam, or who ever they call themselves today, around here. Everything wrapped in divisive terms. Yikes.
GC No, there is no semantics or nuance here. Posting an article with lynching in the title when a lynching did not occur is both inflammatory and racist. The author and the editors know the history of the word and they are basically just going for an emotional rise out of folks.
And you took the bait and ran with it, you should be ashamed for reposting trash.
Poor choice of words? A faux pas? Tiny oopsie. Not bloody likely.
And then trying to cover it up with some 50-cent words.
Have some class.
please keep posting clyde, your perspective is sorely needed here . . . . . .
i got things that have happened to me in my life that i think would also be quite illuminating to some of the readers, would like to share them with you one day . . . .
for a long time now i have felt strongly that we are living in two distinctly different americas, and it's bad, we need to fix it somehow, the only way i know how to do that is one conversation at a time, and i cannot change the whole world by myself, but i can slightly influence my little corner of it one interaction at a time . . . . .
and in a small a community like hackettstown, that's a small start
adam, i don't know you, but i wholly reject the ideas you are repeating over and over again, i think you are wrong on your over-reaching assertions. just plain wrong. some of your facts are also wrong.
there is prejudice and reverse prejudice, there is still racsim in our society and there is a thing called reverse racism, and from whatever source it comes, it's not the right way to go.
i almost feel like walking down main street with a bunch of folks with arms linked singing a praise song or two . . . . . . .
You all seem to think i am racist, you think what you want, it's a free country and I have done no wrong, but i know what I know, and that is this exact situation wouldn't of happened had it been a Black cop who Killed a white kid...whats your explanation to that?
You are all quick to point a racist finger, but not one of you have been able to answer my questions.
If I am wrong, and I have wrong facts let me know, the 'your a racist' scapegoat goes no where to fix the racism problem in today's country.
reposting trash? With the exception of the word "lynching" in the title, the article was a reporting of the facts. Like it or not. A bad/racist/inflammatory title does not automatically label everything following said title as incorrect. Except in your twisted mind.
Maybe stop spending so much time looking for a "gotcha!" moment that you deliriously think renders the entire source as invalid, and start actually caring about the FACTS OF WHAT HAPPENED.
No Adam, you are just ignorant and ignorance breeds racism. I mean if somehow the lack of white violence against blacks offends you, and you demand parity, what about parity for all the white on black violence over the years. just look back a bit and you'll find plenty enough to prove the race riot scales are not even close to being balanced ----- as if that matters to anyone but a racist........and you.
You are kidding regarding white on black violence? Or are you just including the corner case of black cop kills white kid and white riot ensues.... Because the rarity of that happening versus the frequency of white cops killing black kids is astounding. How many or few black cops are there? And how many of the few black cops patrol white neighborhoods. And where in America are 95% black police forces patrolling 95% white neighborhoods.
When was the last time you heard of a history of black police abuse against whites? Ever? Never?
However white riots against blacks used to be pretty normal stuff until the mid 1900's. Ah, those were the days Adam. If only you could go back to the good ole days......
Once a black man touched a white girl, perhaps they knew each other, perhaps they liked each other, maybe just maybe he raped her. But no one knows.
What everyone knows is what happened next: "The Tulsa Race Riot was a large-scale, racially motivated conflict on May 31 and June 1, 1921, in which whites attacked the black community of Tulsa, Oklahoma. It resulted in the Greenwood District, also known as 'the Black Wall Street' and the wealthiest black community in the United States, being burned to the ground." "White mobs set fire to the black Greenwood district, destroying 1,256 homes and as many as 200 businesses. Fires leveled 35 blocks of residential and commercial neighborhood. Black people were rounded up by the Oklahoma National Guard and put into several internment centers, including a baseball stadium. White rioters in airplanes shot at black refugees and dropped improvised kerosene bombs and dynamite on them."
Now that's a white on black riot Adam could be proud of.
In 1917, "White rioters, many of them ethnic immigrants, killed an estimated 100 black residents of East St. Louis, after black residents had killed two white policemen, mistaking the car they were riding in for a previous car of white occupants who drove through a black neighborhood and fired randomly into a crowd of blacks."
Up to the early to mid 1900's, white on black riots in revenge for black crimes or even perceived black crimes was a fairly common event; over 300 in total. And let's not forget the lynching's and Klan violence --- do they count, Adam? Mini riots maybe?
Oh yeah, and the press coverage was minimal.
During the Seventy's for bussing in Boston, "There were a number of protest incidents that turned severely violent, even resulting in deaths. In one case, Theodore Landsmark, a Yale-educated attorney, was attacked and bloodied by a group of white teenagers as he exited Boston City Hall. One of the youths, Joseph Rakes, attacked Landsmark with an American flag. According to Landsmark, Rakes was swinging the flag and trying to hit him, not trying to spear him as it appears in the photo, and he narrowly missed."
So you're right Adam, it doesn't happen that much any more and perhaps when we are illuminated enough to have a 95% Black police force terrorizing a 95% white community for a few years, we will bring back the white riot. I guess there's still a lot of catching up to do to get those black cops into white neighborhoods as well as getting those black riots up to par with the earlier white race riots of the 1900's. I mean where's the napalm, where's the three-digit death count?
(all quotes are from various wiki entries)
This thread is going in circles. For a look as to where these kinds of situations are heading, and if so inclined, check out Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 in the New Testament. It is all to be expected and more, including the situation in Ferguson.
I hope the city can recover from this episode and learn something from it, on all levels. It goes deep for all sides. Prayer would help...
Thank you Spring. I have read every post on this thread. I am disgusted with "every one of them". What has happened to the human race?? Have we become so involved with ourselves, become so hate filled with each other as human beings that we cannot communicate on an intelligent level??? We, as the human race, have we lost all forms of common sense? Has hatred for our fellow countrymen become the norm? Is this something we "all" will pass down to our children and so on? I am not singling out Adam, I AM including "All" who have posted on this thread. It sickens me the way we treat each other. We are adults and should act as such if we are sincere to our children and their future!
Spring Fever- I agree that what is going on is in The Book Of Revelation in the bible and according to the bible it's only going to get worse. I'm sure there are many people on here that would disagree and think I'm some kind of religious nut, but that is my belief.
auntiel, I agree with most of what you said, but not all of the posts were derogatory. I made comments about the biased media, bbu offered an excellent example, Clyde Potts gave a great different perspective and of course Spring Fever brought it to a whole different level, a very good one.
On the other hand it has gotten quite heated and hateful, but with less than a handful of posters...mostly the same posters that have frequent heated debates and get carried away and of course some straggler posters had to add their 0 cents..
JR says: "With the exception of the word "lynching" in the title, the article was a reporting of the facts"
"Well, except for the lynching, I thought the night went pretty well....." (black man at a klan rally).
JR, I get your point but come on, you could have made your point, posted the news, without posting that trash. Of course, a bad title does not mean the remaining facts are wrong, it just means the author and his management are biased, rude, and really bad journalists.
And to your "start actually caring about the FACTS OF WHAT HAPPENED" uh, I think after one sentence recommending that you not post "shoddy journalism" (oh, that's "twisted" fer sure), I believe I spent the next few hundred words on the facts. Think it was youse that focused on the trees instead of the forest......
UPDATE: Actually there isn't much national coverage on this thus far which is sad given it does have AP coverage. CBS Houston picked it up. BreitBart picked it up but apparently used an old story so still had the guy in a coma versus fair condition....next BreitBart had him both in a coma and in fair condition (which might be right) and the arrest so they caught up quick and updated.) So much regional coverage, but just a few national spots. That's sad since it seems that this story is inexorably linked to the Michael Brown story.
Only one story used the word lynching so far........
i agree with spring fever, positive and old gent, they are on to something,
(something really big, and really important, think it over carefully)
also mostly agree with auntiel, and i will try and accentuate the positive, so auntiel, thanks for the come up note, appreciate it.
we have come a long way in race relations since the 1960's, but it's clear to me that we have a long way left to go, i am so very tired of seeing two distinctly different america's, it's troubling to me
so let's start working on it as a community, shall we?
+1Clyde!
I could not have said it any better.
I think this thread has had enough!
"Ferguson.... no such riot have ever occurred over the shooting of a white person, so why is it allowed over a black? Let me get this straight, the logical solution to the upsetting killing of a so called innocent man is more violence towards cops???? WONDERFUL idea! IMHO "
Guys adam is right! White people don't riot and loot when a white kid gets shot.
We just riot and loot when our team wins a hockey game
Hockey games, basketball games, ice capades...... I left that out of my earlier white riots compendium since those crazy white people were only targeting property...
Adam's issue is that he is oppressed. He has a dream..... A dream where all men are equal, all men are just, all men are honest, all men share common bonds. Most important, all men are ........
Protestors threaten to shut down rams game if officer isn't arrested..Mob Rule
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2762605/No-Justice-No-Football-Ferguson-demonstrators-threaten-shut-St-Louis-Rams-game-officer-Darren-Wilson-not-arrested.html
Lol they want tickets donated. Sounds like some just want an excuse to get free tickets
well the game went on yet the protestors are calling their "protest" a success... ???
http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyrft/2014/09/ferguson_protest_fizzles_out_at_st_louis_rams_dallas_cowboys_game.php
The Rams did their part... they quit playing at the 6:00 mark of the 2nd quarter, lol.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/new-evidence-supports-officers-account-of-shooting-in-ferguson/2014/10/22/cf38c7b4-5964-11e4-bd61-346aee66ba29_story.html - Evidence supports officer’s account of shooting in Ferguson
http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2014/10/22/new-information-released-on-michael-brown-case/ - Michael Brown did not have hands up when shot.
I just read this and it had a big impact on me.
http://www.uexpress.com/parents-talk-back/2014/9/29/black-moms-tell-white-moms-about
Lady Jayne worth the read - thanks for the link, Lady Jayne. I worked in South Central LA for 4 years and heard the same - police stopped every black male I ever talked to most often to ask what they were doing on a particular street - can't even walk in their own neighborhoods at night without being stopped ---l
A thorny subject for sure.
First, the info from Ferguson has been leaked from informal sources, so while it may be 100% accurate, it may have left out details, and you have to question why someone would leak it a month early, a month before elections, but it is what it is.
Second, we all warn our children how to be safe, how to avoid run-ins with the police, what to do when in police presence,, etc. It's just than non-main-stream Americans have to do so much more. Some of that is based in racism, some is founded in crime stats or terrorist stats, and now --- Ebola stats. Unfortunately, the combination of a bad statistic combined with and ease of group identification makes for a deadly duo.
A sad and thorny subject for sure.
And no matter what the Grand Jury outcome in Ferguson is; you can be pretty darn sure that police department needs improvement on so many levels in order to actually serve the community.
http://defund.com/video-ferguson-protesters-throw-rocks-bottles-at-police-call-for-darren-wilson-arrest-after-michael-brown-autopsy-released/?utm_source=fnot2&utm_medium=facebook
VIDEO: Ferguson Protesters Throw Rocks, Bottles At Police, Call For Darren Wilson Arrest After Michael Brown Autopsy Released
Protests heated up in Ferguson, Missouri, overnight Wednesday following the leak of a new autopsy report detailing the shooting death of unarmed teenager Michael Brown. A crowd of about 200 gathered near the city’s police department as some protesters knocked down barricades and pelted police with objects. Five officers were hit by either rocks, bottles or a metal rod, although no injuries were reported, St. Louis County police said Thursday.
Five people were arrested and charged with either disturbing the peace or failure to disperse, police added. The crowd dwindled down significantly by 2 a.m. Video taken at the scene shows people chanting, “Hands up, don’t shoot,” as officers in riot gear lined up along the sidewalk.
I feel badly for the peaceful citizens of Ferguson. It's a powder keg ready to blow and the media is gleefully ready to stir things up.
MB was a thug who looked for trouble and found it. Now cant we all just get along ?
Ferguson is not over, I'm afraid. Between the blacks making threats of looting, destruction, and violence, and the KKK making threats of death, it won't take much for it to turn into a war zone overnight. Now there's a town you'd be glad you were well-armed in, when the S hits the Fan.
Glad to see someone can find a silver lining to upcoming events in Ferguson. That's the Thanksgiving spirit :>)
But not to worry, all over the land "the whites" will soon be rioting at Walmart over tube socks and flannel shirts.
Liberal hypocrisy again mg. what if I said the "blacks" we're going to riot at Walmart over watermelons?? It would be the end of the world.
"JR, they have nothing to fear. The police are there to protect them."
Oh yeah, I forgot.
every ethnic race has had there own horrible events in their history.look what hitler did to the jew's killing almost six million of them.i don't see them causing kaos when something happens to them..they should bring in the military and shoot and kill anyone that starts looting..what i don't understand is that they are so stupid they are destroying their own communities so when the dust settles they have no place to shop to take care of their own needs..that's why o j simpson got off because cockran made the trial all about race instead of the fact that two people were murdered.and those two people were white..i don't remember people looting then...
tunnel rat You just did say "the "blacks" we're going to riot at Walmart over watermelons?? and I think that says it all.
Hypocrisy? Perhaps sarcasm. How about you?
yep, they're gettin' gruberized by the media and they don't even know it !
the race baiting in this thread is just atrocious ; the reverse prejudice is shocking, i thought the progressives were supposed to be the enlightened ones? they keep demonstrating otherwise over and over again. the strawman quid pro quo doesn't add up logically, the lame attempt at moral equivalency falls flat on its face again.
"when will they ever learn?, when will they ev-er learn" (song quote)
Solve violence with more violence
Throw rocks at police officers, show a complete lack of respect to the law
+100 ferg! let me know how that works out for you and getting your point across
(sarcasm)
Darrin 
I thought it was hypocrisy? So which am I, huh?
Meanwhile, ah memory lane (just keepin it real):
The year, 2008, the times --- they were good. So what do Phillesfans do?
"More than 100,000 fans flooded the streets of Philadelphia with their first sports championship in 25 years thanks to the 2008 Phillies. However, the festive crowd soon turned into a destructive mob and took 25 years worth of aggression out on South Broad Street. At the end of the night, 76 fans were arrested and all that was left of the mob scene were a few overturned cars, numerous bonfires, broken windows, tear-gas canisters, and a busload of riot cops." (AP)
Just saying........ :>)
Of course one man's store front B&E is another man's torched car. They also overtook and damaged a fire truck on it's way to rescue folks trapped in an elevator.
Sure, it is only an honorable mention in the scheme of sports riots but according to ESPN: "Phillies fans got a bit overexuberant when their team won its first World Series in 28 years in 2008, with 76 fans arrested and at least a dozen injured in a disturbance that included the requisite looting and vandalism."
Just trying to keep "violence by jerks' in perspective and topical for Philliesman.
If I was truly looking for a sports riot metaphor, I would have picked another.
Point is crowds get out of control. Still no good, but happens to all creeds n colors, races n religions, and even apparently to the nicest people from the City of Brotherly Love.
The natives are restless.
http://news.yahoo.com/gun-sales-surge-ahead-jurys-ferguson-decision-060756956.html
It's ironic that the gun dealer they interviewed was named Steven King. The whole thing sounds like it could have been orchestrated by Leland Gaunt of Needful Things. Hopefully, Ferguson doesn't meet a similar end to Castle Rock when all is said and done...
MG and my point was calling you out as a hypocrite. Don't worry, it's not only you, but all liberal media is guilty as well. I'm not signaling you out.
When you do it, it's sarcasm, when I do it, it's hypocrisy wrapped in the generic liberal branding. Interesting choice of spleen venting.
Not Good
The FBI arrested two men for allegedly buying explosives intended for upcoming protests in Ferguson, Missouri, reports CBS News.
The two men are allegedly members of the Black Panthers and live in the greater St. Louis area.
Tensions in Ferguson have risen in recent days as the community prepares for a verdict from the grand jury on whether or not officer Darren Wilson will be charged for the killing of Michael Brown, a black teenager who was unarmed at the time.
The two men were arrested in an undercover operation and reportedly intended to use the explosives to build pipe bombs.
The suspects' names were not released. Both were arraigned in federal court on Friday.
Of course you didn't source that since it looks like CBS but smells like white racist peplum.......
CBS -- The FBI arrested two men earlier this week on firearms charges as part of increased law enforcement presence in Ferguson, Missouri, ahead of a grand jury decision in the shooting death of Michael Brown.
Court documents show Brandon Orlando Baldwin and Olajuwon Davis face charges of making false written statements in connection with a firearms purchase and aiding and abetting. FBI spokeswoman Rebecca Wu told CBS News the suspects were arrested on outstanding warrants.
A law enforcement source said the two men allegedly purchased explosive material during an FBI undercover operation to possibly use during Ferguson protests.
NBC...a little later "Federal law enforcement officials say two men arrested Friday, now held on gun charges, are suspected of trying to acquire pipe bombs with the intent of using them during protests in Ferguson, Missouri.
Two officials say the men claimed to have affiliations with the New Black Panther Party and were trying to acquire guns and explosives. When investigators heard about their plans, they placed the men under surveillance. "We wanted to see where this might go," one official said...............Another federal official said the two did not appear to constitute a very serious threat and that there was no indication they were part of a larger operation."
OLD GENT's radical right "objective news outlets headlines:
"Black Panthers Indicted On Federal Gun Charges, Pipe Bomb Plot Near Ferguson" The Daily Caller
"Ferguson powder keg: 2 with ties to New Black Panthers indicted on weapons charges" The Washington Times
"Report: Two New Black Panther Members Arrested with Explosives Near Ferguson"
Breitbart News
It's great when "allegedly" and "according to anonymous sources" becomes DESTINY.
kb2755 They released names, just took a few spins after removing the "allegedly's, replacing affiliated with belonged to and then leader of, and then replacing "trying to acquire" with whole flipping house full of dynamite........
That's how we take two lone wolves previously under surveillance apprehended with little risk to the public and turn them into the evil empire that's coming knock, knock, knocking on your door.
grand jury has made their decision. Announcement will be made later. Let the media frenzy begin.
Heidi They should have made the announcement around 4:00 or 5:00 am (yes, I'm serious). It's coming out at 9:00 pm which will make for a long night for most major cities.
I heard 8pm, I am sure there is a reason it is so late, possibly to let the non-rioters get home and lock their doors
Businesses boarded their windows in preparation for the verdict, sad that people act that way really
I'm watching the news and the waiting for anouncement, and watching all the people gathered in the streets getting impatient also.
Then I thought, Why the heck are they wasting their time and sticking around for the stupid grand jury decision. ..... Don't they have anything better to do?
Then it hit me! .... probably 90 percent of them have No Job. They don't have to worry about waking up tomorrow for work! ... What a Pitiful Sorry waste of Lazy people!
They walk the streets in and out of traffic as if they own the streets.
9:00 pm they are now saying, Either way there is going to be utter chaos guilty or innocent
I get they need to make sure everyone is in place and secure. Have to call in off duty cops and all. But it was probably the worst idea to wait this long. They are just going to get more and more restless and regardless of the decision they are going to explode. Either riot in joy or anger
Greg No charges are to be filed..........The residents are getting rowdy and the local police officers are gearing up. This is not going to end well. I hope all parties let it settle down and take care of it in civil court.
They got it right....
The kid robbed a store, so you can see what his state of mind was when he was stopped by Wilson.
Wilson, while still in his car, confronted him (brown was standing at the window).
An altercation occurred before he even got out of the car, two shots were fired in the car, one striking brown in the thumb. Bullet holes were found inside the car leading one to believe Brown reached in. Also his blood was found on weapon.
Brown runs.
Wilson gets out and chases.
Brown stops, turns around, charges back and the deadly shots are fired.
No shots were fired while he was running away per 3 autopsies.
Nailedit Oh, and by the way here's a simple tip....
Don't disobey the law. Period.
If he robbed a store and then attempted to grab a police officers gun as the evidence suggests, then Wilson had every right.
Ultimately the grand jury heard all of the evidence and did not feel that they could indict. I'm really disappointed in Obama's speech - he opted to condemn the Police with his rather myopic view on this case.
Obama shouldn't even be speaking in regards to this situation IMO...It's not his place.
Nosila It's a shame the 18 year old was killed...but he bullied and charged a police officer, and was shot dead!
The next day... the protesters who thought Brown was wrongfully shot, should have known the police officer was protecting himself.
Anyone who charges at a police officer, is an idiot!
Now the president is asking that something like this doesn't be pushed aside and forgotten..... Well!! I have the first lesson for people that don't understand the law.
#1... Stand away from interacting or charging or even running from a law officer.
Period! ..... It's a No Brainer! ...
Now I'm watching violence stiring. Rock and bottle throwing.... etc. Wild A n i m a l s. ...
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/08/13/us/ferguson-missouri-town-under-siege-after-police-shooting.html?_r=1
good NYT article
Nosila +1
IMO the pent up anxiety isn't really about this case, it's about long-perceived (rightly or wrongly) injustices. This verdict will be seen as confirmation that those injustices still exist. Sorry to say things will only get worse because of this.
+1 justintime !
Cnn is reporting that a women had a heart attack in the crowd and that they had to turn her over to the police and the police took her. The very people she was against are now helping her.
Now...most of the protesters have dispersed....
Yeah!... they got their looted free liquor, so they are probably home gettin juiced up!
Hitting up an O'Rielly's auto parts store now. Looks like everyone is getting new wiper blades in their stockings this year.
Ru4real " Obama shouldn't even be speaking in regards to this situation IMO...It's not his place " when there is country wide unrest over something it is his place to speak out
Bobb His agenda is to write a book every time he has a comment. Ignore the comments like most people do. If I wanted to read I would have gone to the library.
Way to go! Smashing windows, robbing stores, setting fire to businesses with a smile on their face in a honest remembrance of Michael Brown right? What a peaceful protest against violence should be?
Darwin, your post made me laugh my ass off!
This country keeps kissing up to the lowlifes. Its pathetic and so is the president of this country
Yeah, Joker (et. al) , no need to read here - no need to read, to understand, to become educated, to consider all perspectives, no need to be adult - just play into the extremest agenda - whichever your extreme may be - no need for any citizen in THIS country to seek information for themselves - just hold to your own emotionally based and therefore biased perspectives, just allow yourself to be led like a lamb - spouting whatever unsubstantiated and slanted views that the media feeds you and that suits your already-decided mind.. who needs to think, to remember, to consider - we have the media and politicians to do that for us, right? Lets us just say whatever we want, call it fact and then build an inflamed story around it... how fun!
pmnsk just more stupid people doing stupid things buck shot works very well to dispurse a angry group
lol pmnsk, I agree with you 100% except for the fact that the problem JOKER has with HWMNBN is probably the same as many here: personality. Just because someone is intelligent doesn't mean they are a decent human being (maybe he is but has no clue how to convey it through conversation with others). History tells a tale here, and that tale is one of consistent condescension and closed mindedness toward anyone who dares to "think", ie question HWMNBN's beliefs. Lord knows there's enough documentation on this site to justify JOKER's view.
Your are intelligent. It comes out in most all of your posts. But if you think JOKER has no basis for his comment then I suggest you go back starting, oh, I don't know, maybe six years ago, and read the bible-length posts that have lead some people to view him the way they do. He's a product of his own making. It doesn't matter if he's "right" about anything if his chosen method of interaction is one of antagonism. Besides, he absolutely refuses to acknowledge that there often is no "right" because being right or wrong stems from one's perspective. So instead of trying to understand the perspective of another what does he do? He talks down to and ridicules those engaging him in conversation! No, JOKER has the right idea. Ignore him, regardless of how intelligent he is. There's plenty of other sources of intelligent thought that do not require condescending the views of others.
BTW JOKER et. al, if you use Firefox and don't mind installing the Greasemonkey add-on I have a script that will remove forum posts from the view based on user name. Comes in very handy when you get tired of whomever gets on your nerves causing trouble on the forum.
If we can put aside the race of the people involved in the shooting of Michael Brown and just consider the evidence I think you will find as the grand jury has, that the police officer acted within the bounds of his authority as a police offier. If Michael Brown would have followed the officers directives and not tried to assault the officer he would have been charged with theft, released with probation, and be alive today. He was responsible for his own death. Let's not blame the cop for something that was not his fault.
+1 JIT, pmnsk, you are correct in counseling that folks need to listen to and understand varying views, that the media is out of control, that a lot of amercians become divided because of it, i agree with you and JJmonth on all of that, but JIT and many others have been cyberbulied to the extent that they no longer wish to engage with an intellectuality dishonest and quite abusive person,
go back and read some of the denigrating childish vitriol hurled at them, and then think about how you would feel if it happened to you.
and it's worse when you come too the realization that he knows he is doing it, and has freely chosen that method of communicating, like it's ok, (it's not ok). he may think he is flying under the radar, but this forum is not as anonymous as some seem to think, so posters need to be cautious in how they address other community members, because it will catch back up with them personally, karma has a way of making things right, so beware, and be forewarned.
Ok Brother, Justintime, guess I responded to the - don't want to read - part of Joker's response - rather than his reaction to a particular poster - one that's clearly shared. I have not witnessed the condescension that has been described, and have been impressed by the amount of research done by MG on specific topics. I usually stop reading a thread once it goes beyond a somewhat rational back and forth - so, haven't seen the abusive exchange - I have truly sought out both of your postings on other threads - finding that you make me think - and have done so again.
If I were in charge, right now I'd have the cops ride around the neighborhoods blasting country music or jazz so that the protestors can't sleep.
this is related I believe - http://www.buzzfeed.com/nathanwpyle/this-teacher-taught-his-class-a-powerful-lesson-about-privil
If that was my kid, I wouldn't be looking to the community for sympathy. I would be apologetic to the owners of that convenience store and everyone else in this country that has been "touched" by this bs. The bottom line - he was a thug and mommy and daddy refuse to accept it. They keep showing that picture of him in a cap and gown like he was some angel. My kids aren't exactly perfect. I know that when they're out and unsupervised they behave differently than when they're sitting at our dinner table. If they get into trouble, they own it. and they know that. Also, I'd like to extend my sincere appreciation and thanks to Officer Wilson and all of the men and women in blue that have to endure this bs on a daily basis. I can't imagine what this experience has done to his life.
I'm just wondering what becomes of officer Wilson NOW.... he just got married yesterday (nice timing), and I can't imagine he's going to be able to continue living in Ferguson... there will be an "unofficial" price on his head. Imagine living with that.
I hear someone say his best option would be to become a park ranger somewhere far far from Ferguson. I think the police dept will let him "retire" and give him a package to get the heck out of town.
No way he can be a cop again and no way he can stay within 1000miles of Ferguson.
. In my day I never heard of deliberately shooting a police officer ,except by the Maffa. They were the only gang in those days. This mess started at home where we were taught to respect authority. Then the teachers became disrespected and parents defended their children. "Not my child" What a lesson that was. Then the PC police came in and gave children rights. I had no rights till I was 18. This progressed till now everyone is offended. It all starts In school in every society. We reap what we sow.
All because he was just doing his job, and stopping a thief, really sorry for him and totally appreciate what the officer did.
If you seriously want to learn something about the issues you may want to read this article in the Atlantic: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/08/self-segregation-why-its-hard-for-whites-to-understand-ferguson/378928/
All I know is channel 7 interrupted Dancing with the Stars just as someone was about to be voted out of the Finals to give a special update about this verdict. I don't know who was voted out, they never came back to it.
If race was not in the equation none of this craziness would be happening. I hope officer Wilson has protection for himself and his family. Such a shame that he needs it, for just doing his job.
hktownie I don't understand why a community that is between 55-65% black has a police force that is 95% white. No wonder there is resentment and hostility; it must feel like a military occupation... which isn't to say that I condone anything that's happened.
There is a right way and a wrong way to protest social injustice; rioting and looting is definitely the wrong way to go about getting people to be sympathetic to your plight.
IA,
I'm guessing it's because more blacks don't apply for, and pass the tests for, law enforcement work. It's certainly not a racial thing. If the blacks want more black cops, they should apply for and study for the required testing to become cops.
St. Louis County police scanner.
http://m.ustream.tv/channel/st-louis-county-police-scanner
adult aged man goes into a store, steals cigars, ruffs up and threatens the store clerk, leaves with his friend, walks down the middle of the street , gets stopped by a officer who instructs them to walk on the sidewalk, adult aged man then has a fistmatch with the officer in his car, trys to grab the officers duty weapon, gets shot, backs away, officer leaves his vehical , adult aged man then decides to charge the officer in some kind of a 'bull run', officer defends himself by shooting his attacker.
no charges filed by the grand jury, sounds right to me,
did i miss anything?
Forget Ferguson, Blacks only make up 25% of the police force in the entire US. So what does that tell us? I think JR's rationale is probably the most reasonable assumption
LOL, sure, JR... that's the reason. It couldn't be because many local police departments around the country are ruled by nepotism and political favoritism, with more than a little racism thrown in.
"Blacks only make up 25% of the police force in the entire US."
They also only make up 12% of the overall population, so that statistic is actually higher than chance would indicate.
BrotherDog,
Please replace adult aged man with "unarmed black teenager" and include graduation picture.
sorry that 25% makes up all ethnic minority, not just black.
http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=tp&tid=71
BTW 1 in 8 cops are women
Very well said, Southerner! Also agree with comments from Brotherdog and Jefferson Repub
"If that was my kid, I wouldn't be looking to the community for sympathy. I would be apologetic to the owners of that convenience store and everyone else in this country that has been "touched" by this bs. The bottom line - he was a thug and mommy and daddy refuse to accept it. They keep showing that picture of him in a cap and gown like he was some angel. My kids aren't exactly perfect. I know that when they're out and unsupervised they behave differently than when they're sitting at our dinner table. If they get into trouble, they own it. and they know that. Also, I'd like to extend my sincere appreciation and thanks to Officer Wilson and all of the men and women in blue that have to endure this bs on a daily basis. I can't imagine what this experience has done to his life."- Southerner
mom of one "Please replace adult aged man with "unarmed black teenager" and include graduation picture."
Last I checked, 18 is legally adult.
Shall we lock you in a room with an angry 6'4" 292 pound adult to duke it out? Don't worry, he'll be unarmed and we'll hang his baby picture on the wall to help you.
I think IMHO that the jury is still out. Luckily they appear to be releasing everything so we will be able to see what the panel saw. We also don't know the jury vote tally, won't be formally released but probably will leak at some point.
For conspiracy advocates, one might ask:
- If the only reason to hold a grand jury is to indict, why empanel this one? This prosecutor failed miserably. How miserable? "federal prosecutors pursued over 160,000 cases against defendants in 2009-2010 (the last period for which there is data), and grand juries only voted not to return an indictment in 11." I'd say that's a pretty bad screw up by this prosecutor. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/11/24/the-single-chart-that-shows-that-grand-juries-indict-99-99-percent-of-the-time/
- If the grand jury is essentially a prosecutor's show with no defense available to the "victim," or defendant or anyone isn't all we really found out is what the prosecutor thought? If we think this was an impartial trial, one only needs to better understand the grand jury process to realize that is not the case.
- If you wanted to minimize violent protest, why would you tell everyone who might riot that you would be announcing tonight, give them plenty of time to go downtown, congregate, maybe do a little drinkin, and then announce the no-charges verdict at night given the past history of nighttime violence? What outcome were you looking for?
Now, that said, I would imagine this went to the grand jury because of public pressure, not the normal manner of using prosecutorial judgment. I would imagine the prosecutor pretty fairly laid out all the evidence and let the panel take the weight of making the decision if for no other reason than he did not any blame. But it will be interesting to see the evidence, the transcripts, and via leak, the actual vote.
Meanwhile, the violent protestors play right into the hands of those they seek change from. Stupid, meaningless, and will hurt potential good coming from any of this.
Yep. Sorry he was shot but agree he was not acting in his own best interest. Who does that kind of crap?
Take off your blinders MG, you are so tunnel visioned and will twist solid evidence so that the outcome is favorable to your opinion.
Nobrain Joe said: Blacks make alot of excuses for their behavior.
Sums up the "thinking" of most on this thread.
The black community needs to get a hold of themselves. They're the only race in this country that responds this way to someone of their race getting killed. They're not oppressed. This isn't the 1920's. Plenty of white people, latin people, oriental people, etc. get murdered or shot. You don't see any of them going out burning buildings and cars to the ground. Guys like Al Sharpton should be preaching to these people to get an education and do something with their lives instead of being thugs and deadbeats that contribute to the crime rate. The guy who was killed was a criminal. It's not like he was a college student trying to make something of himself and tragically got shot. It was a guy who was up to no good and causing trouble.
Metsman 
MB Mistergoogle needs to sit on a grand jury..There is no record of the vote total..only the jurors know..its not a trial..it was a vote to indict..big difference..warren county conducts a grand jury investigation on every police shooting..the prosecutor gives the evidence and the jurors decide what to do..as far as charges..
" It couldn't be because many local police departments around the country are ruled by nepotism and political favoritism, with more than a little racism thrown in."
LOL talk about your conspiracy theories.... that's it, all the cops are related and racist. LOL
And, in case you haven't noticed by my postings on the forum, I'm not a "pro-cop-all-the-way" guy, on the contrary. They have no more right to break the law than we do. And when I see police brutality, I point it out and stand AGAINST the cops who did it. IMO, some of the LEOs in this country are getting arrogant and dangerous.
As a matter of fact, right after the Ferguson shooting there was another one- a black cop shooting a white criminal... what did we hear from the media on that one?
-crickets-
IN THIS CASE, the jury - WHO ARE THE ONLY PEOPLE TO SEE ALL THE EVIDENCE- seems to have gotten it right.
Of course, that doesn't explain the OJ verdict LOL
Metsmann-not all blacks were rioting and a few "whites" were looting and rioting in Ferguson last night too. Thought you watch the news.
Too much racism on this thread. Im done here.
I'm sorry... maybe you can go back and point out where I said ALL cops are related and racists. On the other hand, are you saying that NONE of them are?
I can't really see the point of the rest of your rant. I happen to agree with the grand jury outcome in this case and join in condemning the actions stemming from it. I believe one hundred percent that this officer acted properly and should have been "no-billed" by the grand jury. Actually, the prosecutor should have refused to even SEND it to the grand jury, but he was a coward who kicked the can down the street.
But none of this has anything to do with my point, which was simply that a primarily black community that is policed by a predominantly white police force who aren't from their community is a powder keg waiting to blow. The cops are seen as the enemy, perhaps deservedly, perhaps not... but that perception isn't about to change. If anything, it's going to get worse from this event.... the actual facts be damned.
So if hackettstown had a predominantly black police force, would we be a powder keg? Some reason I don't think it would.
botheredbyuu2 do you honestly think white people started the riot? Just because some white people joined in means nothing. The fact remains every time a black person gets shot by a cop, the race card always gets pulled. I wonder what the statistic is of how many cops get killed every year by black criminals. All these people burning buildings down don't seem to care about that. In their minds they think they are oppressed people. Enough is enough. These people who get into confrontations with police and commit crimes need to look in the mirror and change themselves. Then you wouldn't have things like this happen.
Yes Brad, I agree there is no public display of the vote; but I am guessing one or more of the jurors will leak the tally even if against the law. Think that's what I tried to say.
Re mandatory grand juries for all police shootings; that depends on locale. Most often it's a determination of the prosecutor, like in MO. Seems like a waste of time to convene a grand jury for every shooting as apparently we do in Warren County but certainly provides public exposure which is a good thing.
Yet it is true that most grand juries indict, but that's for all cases, not just police shootings. And police are rarely charged in police shootings for a variety of reasons, one of which being there is no reason to charge. Over n out Brad.
Tunnel visioned? I guess you can call me that name. Just reported some facts about grand juries in general. Twisted, most definitely you can call me that name. But I don't think I twisted any of the routine experience of grand juries; it is what it is. Perhaps I guesses as to the motives of a after-dark pre-announced announcement pretty much sure to singe the emotions of an angry group. Does not excuse their actions, just makes you question the prosecutors.
CraftBeerBob Really, Philliesman? Imagine if the State disbanded the HPD and replaced the current officers with 25-30 black men from Newark who grew up in the 'hood and acted like it? Do you really think that would be fine and dandy with the people on this Forum?
Then imagine that every week or so, someone was getting roughed up by these police officers or pulled over and harassed and occasionally one of your kids got killed because he was breaking into a car for spare change to buy smack with, but he didn't have any weapons on him or he wasn't doing anything at all, but the cop accidentally shot him anyway.
Would you all lay back and continue to take it, year after year? Somehow, I doubt it... it's kind of hard to put yourself in someone else's shoes, but you have to admit that there would be a breaking point for you personally at some point, no?
http://www.aol.com/article/2014/11/25/darren-wilsons-grand-jury-testimony-reveals-fear-michael-brown-would-kill/20998543/?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl3%7Csec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D570312
If this story is true, how can anyone defend the kid?
Because of this??
http://www.vox.com/2014/11/25/7281165/darren-wilsons-story-side
"Gee... I wonder what would happen if "Putin" was in charge of cleaning up the Furguson protestors / rioters ?"
To apply for a police job you need a high school degree and in many instances a college degree in criminal justice, You also need a clean record, That eliminates a large majority of people, including blacks.
Some of the comments on this forum drip hatred, bigotry, stereotyping and worse---sure would be interesting if the tables were turned........some of you confirm the point that racial issues are alive and flourishing in some ---terribly sad to me
the guy got just what he deserved..if i did the same thing and got killed by the cop that's what i get for being a thug..
The "issue" of race inequality will never die- the politicians will not allow it to. It's too good a weapon to use in campaigns.
Another reason the issue of race will never die is that it takes away personal responsibility- "it ain't my fault, it's the man's". Alot of people today love to blame someone else for their lot in life.
If the people of Ferguson want more blacks on the police force, they should make an effort to get more blacks on the police force. And not by lowering standards- but by RISING TO them.
yankeefan
from the article:
"But the larger question is, in a sense, simpler: Why?
Why did Michael Brown, an 18-year-old kid headed to college, refuse to move from the middle of the street to the sidewalk? Why would he curse out a police officer? Why would he attack a police officer? Why would he dare a police officer to shoot him? Why would he charge a police officer holding a gun? Why would he put his hand in his waistband while charging, even though he was unarmed?
“None of this fits with what we know of Michael Brown”
None of this fits with what we know of Michael Brown??? really? We have video of him moments prior roughing up a store clerk as he robbed him. Seem's like he behavior with the cops fits exactly with the Michael Brown we know.
ah.... platitudes. MLK.... great man. If MLK were here today, HE would be telling the blacks in Ferguson to fix the problem by RISING TO THE OCCASION. HE would be the one preaching NON-VIOLENCE. He would not be on his way to Ferguson, like Al Sharpton is, to stir up even more outrage and hatred.
"If the people of Ferguson want more blacks on the police force, they should make an effort to get more blacks on the police force. And not by lowering standards- but by RISING TO them."
In 1990, Ferguson was 75% white and 25% black; in 2000, it was 45% white and 52% black; in 2010, it was 30% white and 67% black. So, in that time, most of the white people left (and were replaced by blacks, as the overall population hasn't changed appreciably) yet held onto their complete control of the police department.
Do you really believe that in a city of 25,000 or so, there aren't 50 black people who are perfectly qualified and capable of being police officers? Really?
al sharpton doesn't give a crap about those people--the only reason he is there is to stay in the public eye so people will continue to donate money to his organization..then he can take that money to live on and buy his five thousand dollar suits..he's still having issues with the IRS today..
"Do you really believe that in a city of 25,000 or so, there aren't 50 black people who are perfectly qualified and capable of being police officers? Really?"
I don't know. Neither do you.
And for you to assume the opposite- that it's nepotism and racism keeping all of these qualified blacks off the police force- is just as ridiculous.
At least I have the transparency to admit I DON'T KNOW. Maybe there are, maybe there aren't. I don't know. But you don't either, and are making grander assumptions than I am.
ian...........so your answer is yes. You think hackettstown, or any other predominately white town, would be a powder keg, if the PD was predominately black. Very MG-esque, long winded answer. My answer is no. There would be no riots or anger toward the police. People would continue to goto work, support their families, and enjoy life.
why is eric holder still investigating the grand jury decision ..once they made there decision i thought that was it case closed.
Philliesman
would you still feel the same if you were being pulled over 2 or 3 three times a week for driving while white or being harassed on the street for walking while white how naïve are you people to think the police in Ferguson were so professional and were there protecting and serving the whole community some of you seem to forget about half of the revenue the city needs is taken in by finds parking tickets speeding tickets taillight out isn't there one of you out there that thinks that the police may have been writing tickets just to fund their department ?
So, it's a "grand assumption" that out of approximately 15,000 black people, there are at least 50 who are qualified to be police officers? That's a pretty bleak opinion, but you're entitled to it, I suppose.
As I said- we don't know. Have at least 50 black people met the educational requirements? Have at least 50 black people taken and passed the testing?
Maybe some un-biased (ROFL) media outlet should look into that....
I would think, at this point, months after the shooting and the riots, if there was ANY truth to your grand assumptions, the media would have been ALL OVER IT .... like white on rice... by now.
I crack myself up sometimes.
Three short paragraphs is long-winded, Philliesman?
So, then... what you're saying, in your short-winded way, is that you would suffer abuse at the hands of police forever and never do or say anything? And you believe that all white people feel the same way as you do? Thanks... that's all I need to know.
The step-father of Michael Brown is quoted as saying, "Burn this motherf***** down!" I'm sure the kid was a model citizen too....
if your going to smoke cigars make sure you pay for them..i guess smoking is hazardous to your health..
more peaceful communications from Michael Browns mother
http://rebelpundit.com/michael-browns-mom-reacts-in-ferguson-you-motherfkers-think-this-is-a-joke/
civil service requirements are there to ensure equity in regards to public employment - if the indigenous population does not register for the exam they don't have a chance for law enforcement employment
So basically the step-father and mother talk like they are trash. Now the kid talking to the cop the way it is reported seems true.
this will go on forever..until they stick just to the facts in criminal cases and leave race out of it nothing will ever get better..just like cockran did in the OJ trial..the trial was to be about two people being murdered..nothing to do with race..and that's what this case should be about a crime was committed.the grand jury made their decision..
mistergoogle, I saw it reported that this grand jury took presentations, testimony, etc, from the defense as well as the prosecution. So it is not the usual kind of grand jury.
jd2 i just saw sharpton on the news inciting more trouble..even the police are saying every time that guy shows up nothing good ever comes out of it..
Replacing white police with black police would not create a problem. Most people in our area never have involvement with Police in a bad way. Usually it is a small number of people having violent contact. That argument is senseless.
People in Ferguson feel entitled. Entitled to have their way, to not act in a manner most responsible people act. Entitled to welfare for generation after generation. Entitled to have the grand jury see things Their way..
This would not have happened if Brown had simply moved off the road, and not attacked the Officer. All he had to do was what any reasonable person would do and he would be alive today.
How about we take away the entitlement programs, make people qualify for them along with drug testing. Put restrictions on length of receiving payments and get them into the work force where they will appreciate their freedoms, instead of burning down stores and looting...
boobalaa 
emaxxman This is getting way to racy, lets stick to the facts
He was high, he just got done robbing a store and roughing up the clerk, he disregarded orders from a police officer, he attacked a police officer (during which he was shot twice), he then charged at the police officer with his hand in his pants,
I don't care if you were a harmless dolphin, these actions would get you shot, black, white, Spanish, Asian, whatever your race may be, this would get you shot, has nothing to do with Brown being black, and has nothing to do with the cop being white, leave race out of this story because that it what is fueling all this violence
ian............how would i suffer abuse if i am not committing a crime, therefore not needing the police called on me. And if i did encounter the police, listen/respect them, and be on my way. A question for you.......why is there a heavy police presence in "black" neighborhoods? Giulliani's answer was ripped by media.
It also certainly did not help the case that the majority of "eye witnesses" flat out lied under oath to try to favor Brown
Everyone keeps referring to the "facts" support the grand jury's decision. I'd like to know, what facts? Other than the forensics report showing all shots entered the body from the front, the bulk of everything else is witness testimony. Am I missing something? Like where is the dash cam video? Where is the speed log of the police vehicle, and does is show the police car backing up quickly prior to the altercation as has been accused?
Not nice suspects and dead guy. Yup. But that alone isn't enough to justify taking someone's life. Yes, self defense is adequate. But if all you have is witness testimony you really have no facts, and that means no proof either way, and that means trial. That's all.
Not sure why everyone is so against investigating the facts. After reading the two eye witness accounts I can see obvious flaws in both. That alone means there should be an investigation and trial.
Or maybe I should just get all emotional about it, rush to judgement about a situation I have no first hand knowledge of, and use my biases to believe one party over the other? ;-)
"Not sure why everyone is so against investigating the facts."
???
The grand jury was given ALL the evidence. We don't have a Delorean with a Flux Capacitor so we can't go back in time to watch it happen.
The Grand Jury heard more evidence and testimony about this case than ALL OF US PUT TOGETHER. And they decided there was not enough EVIDENCE to indict. Done deal. It's called the justice system, something YOU are usually a big fan of, JIT.
JIT,
In a case like this, you have facts that pretty much amount to autopsy reports (all of which sided with the Officer's story), and the rest is testimony. Just like ANY COURT CASE. If we always had all the facts, we wouldn't need a jury, would we? So, we assemble a jury, and show them everything we know about the case, and they weigh it all, and make a decision.
But you know this. Like I said, if we had a time machine, we could put the judge in it, and send them back to witness the crime, no jury needed....
Problem is, JR, from what I've read the autopsy report also corroborates the other side of the story. IOW, both accounts validate the autopsy report. The bruises on the officer match up with both stories as well. But what else is there besides picking a side to believe (a side that usually will match up with what we want to believe)?
If really like to know why there are no audio or video recordings of the incident from the police equipment. I find it troubling to think that some of the egregious police shootings recently caught on film may have been explained away and had similar outcomes had the video not been available.
Revoke all their welfare...obviously they have to much time on their hands!Thugs and criminals!
Well, JIT, in lieu of KNOWING EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED, THE TRUTH, what do you suggest that would do a better job than collecting all possible evidence and giving it to the grand jury?
There is an old saying............
"You can take Some People out of the Jungle!".......
But... " You can't take the Jungle out Of Some People!"
Embryodad - how about going back into your cave--- your comments are beyond anything decent -- sure reflect on you
JR, I already stated my opinion above. The question is about whether or not the person killed was in self defense, the primary evidence being eye-witness. The officer says yes, and I'm inclined to believe him. But just because I lean that way doesn't mean he's not lying. There's enough in both testimonies to think that both parties are either lying or not recalling accurately what really happened. Both stories are plausible, and IMO the both stories also take some liberties where they shouldn't.
The question is whether there is enough evidence to bring the case to trial. I'm on the fence, but since this involves law enforcement I'd rather it be fully vetted in court than in a trial of public opinion.
The news agencies need to be more objective. It is not right to have headlines that say "killer cop let go''
Really Embrydad? Here's another one for you:
If your not part of the solution your part of the problem!
Embryodad - how about going back into your cave--- your comments are beyond anything decent -- sure reflect on you
5catmom5catmom
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Don't get all smoked up!
Take it as you may..... There is enough irritation in this world today!
Civil rights have nothing to do with what occurred here, everyone needs to stop trying to turn it into a civil rights case, because that is the main reason it is being blown out of proportion.
Metsmann-I NEVER said that "white" people started the riot! You cant read either. I said some "whites"were rioting ALSO. YOU said "blacks" need to get "a hold of themselves" and I was pointing out that it wasn't only "blacks" rioting. Thats all.
"The question is whether there is enough evidence to bring the case to trial. I'm on the fence, but since this involves law enforcement I'd rather it be fully vetted in court than in a trial of public opinion."
JIT. That's the point- it's NOT a question. A grand jury heard all the evidence, and decided there was NOT enough evidence to bring the case to trial. That's how our legal system works. I'm still not clear what your issue is with this case... everything was done exactly how it should have been, a jury of peers heard all the evidence, deliberated, and made a decision. "public opinion", especially here on this forum, is irrelevant. The GJ made their decision based on all the evidence. If the GJ had made their decision based on "public opinion", they would have indicted the officer.
I don't know what else you want.
I read this on the ABC website. These are the "Crucial" facts the grand jury heard.
Evidence released by the Saint Louis County Police Department gave crucial insight into why the Ferguson grand jury decided not to indict Officer Darren Wilson in the death of Michael Brown, a black unarmed teenager.
Here are some key pieces of evidence presented to the grand jury:
1) Police Car Damage
Detectives reported damage to Wilson's police car in their investigative report obtained by ABC News. The car's driver-side window was shattered, and the driver-side mirror was bent towards the car, possibly indicating evidence of a fierce struggle between Wilson and Brown while the officer was still seated in his patrol car.
2) A Witness' Journal Entry
A journal entry by someone police only identified as "Witness 44" said that Brown charged at Wilson, even after Wilson fired his gun. "The cop just stood there," the entry read. "Dang if that kid didn't start running right at the cop like a football player. Head down. I heard three bangs, but the big kid wouldn't stop."
3) Wilson's Medical Examination
Wilson sustained bruising in the face, neck, and scalp areas after "he was hit in the face a couple of times," according to a police report. Wilson also reported jaw pain, according to a medical examination report.
4) A DNA Analysis Report
A DNA analysis report revealed that Brown's DNA was found inside Wilson's car, on the officer's shirt and pants, and the interior left front door handle. Brown's blood was also found on Wilson's gun, according to the police investigation. That evidence appeared to support Wilson's claim that Brown punched the officer while Wilson was seated in his car and reached in and struggled over Wilson's gun. Wilson said he fired twice while in the car.
5) Wilson's Interview
Wilson testified before the grand jury that he perceived Brown as a direct threat. "He looked up at me and had the most intense aggressive face, it looks like a demon, that's how angry he looked," Wilson told the panel.
I can't understand after reading this how Police Officer Wilson could be indicted in this case.
Lady Jayne - To understand it you have to understand that in our country today common sense and the order of law are for the most part gone.
Mark Also there was a blood trail. Brown turned around and there's a trail coming towards Wilson for some distance before the fatal shot took him down. The evidence is pretty cut and dry. Wilson had just cause to shoot Brown. Black people need to get it out of their heads that every cop that shoots a black man is racist. I would say those very black people are racist. People didn't know what the evidence was and just jumped to a conclusion that it was all about race. We have the details of the evidence now and it's pretty clear Brown was a bad egg and brought this on himself.
The families attorney was on CNN last night. That guy is a crack pot. He went on and on about race and never once talked about the physical evidence.
First, I know there are ricist's amongst us but let's keep the ricism out of this.
JD2, you're right, this was no ordinary Grand Jury. It was put on because of public pressure, the prosecutor provided lots of evidence and let the jury decide, very unusual. Whether the prosecutor "spun" the facts is yet to be determined as folks sift through the transcripts. Officer Wilson testified without cross examination, given softball questions and not challenged on contradictions like other eyewitnesses. In the end, what was needed was a nine to three vote, amazingly the jury was nine to three, white/black, and one grain of rice.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/26/us/ferguson-grand-jury-weighed-mass-of-evidence-much-of-it-conflicting.html?_r=0
More will come out, but will take time to sift through the data to see what we think about the fairness of all this; it's really too early to reach evidentiary conclusions.
Meanwhile, in the scheme of things, police are rarely charged in shootings. It's a complex situation with much favoring the police stories.
Generally, if someone goes for a policeman's weapon, that's considered fear of bodily harm and self defense comes into play, the fact that it happened 150ft ago usually does not matter. Combine that with someone moving towards the policeman and it sounds justified.
Forensics seems to collaborate that he was moving towards the policeman.
Eyewitness testimony will always be taken with a grain.....of rice.... and the witnesses demeanor, background, etc. will always come into play. Who do you believe more, a policeman or a priest (don't answer JR :>)
So, a strange grand jury, a stranger verdict announcement time and venue, but an expected outcome from the Grand Jury. With more determinations as to the fairness of it all as folks shift through the transcripts and if someone leaks the tally.
Too bad the protestors felt they had to resort to violence and shame on the parents, they all should have known that showing emotions like that will not help no matter what.
I agree Metsman.
As far as the rioting goes....to prove your point you burn down your own community? Yep, that makes sense.
JRT Yeah it's like an episode of South Park or something. It's unreal. Hey lets torch the town everybody! LOL
Oh and for those talking about Ferguson having mostly white cops or whatever... The Captain is black! He was on with the Chief last night talking to reporters.
"As far as the rioting goes....to prove your point you burn down your own community? Yep, that makes sense."
Yeah, it would make a lot more sense (logically) if they attempted to burn down the areas where the cops lived, not their own community. Kind of like the Tulsa, OK example mistergoogle posted in this thread weeks ago. THAT is how you should riot. (not that you should, mind you, but if you're GOING to... burn down THEIR homes and businesses, not your OWN... that's just moronic)
http://www.hackettstownlife.com/forum/627200#t629265
I won't post sources because they will just be ridiculed by the usual suspects, but apparently a 20-year old BLACK witness who gave testimony to the grand jury- testimony that agreed with officer wilson's story- was shot dead in his car last night.
He was apparently told to "keep his mouth shut". 20 years old, employed, no police record. Compare that to Mr. Brown.
Screw it:
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2014/11/25/first-pro-truth-grand-jury-witness-murdered-deandre-joshua-20-found-dead-yards-from-scene-of-michael-browns-death/
That Captain is from the Missouri State Highway Patrol, I believe... not the Ferguson Police Department.
That town is full of animals. Sad that a good kid gets killed because he did the right thing.
Or, maybe DeAndre Joshua WAS a drug dealer?
http://gotnews.com/breaking-real-deandre-joshua-drug-dealer-ferguson/
You're right, Gadfly. I went and read it carefully again. Misleading journalism on that point. What struck me more tho are the reports of the eyewitnesses being threatened to not talk... not tell the truth.....
"Several of the eye-witnesses, who gave honest testimony to the Grand Jury, were, according to their own statements, warned immediately after the shooting to keep their mouths shut. All of the eye-witnesses were African American. If you read the reports the sense of fear about speaking the truth is overwhelming.
Many, if not all, of the witness statements outlined in police reports, FBI reports, and later in Grand Jury testimony -who testified to the factual events as outlined by officer Wilson, and whose testimony fit the physical and forensic evidence- were threatened by the local Canfield Greens community."
I went back to the beginning of this thread and thought it would be useful to highlight the common themes in so many posts that claim race is not the issue in this case. Just a sampling:
Animals
Thugs
Pieces of S***
Ignorant Uneducated Animals
Obama Free Loaders
White people simply can't trust black people
Lazy people
Blacks make a lot of excuses for their behavior
Trash
Blacks think they are entitled to welfare generation after generation
You can't take the jungle out of some people
Incredibly sad to think so many still think like this.
Ianimal, never a doubt. And I know there many others here who agree as well.
Happy Thanksgiving!
Yankefan,
Are you saying the rioters aren't acting like thugs and animals? This whole incident is being made racial by black racist, or don't you think anyone but whites can be racist.
well put yankeefan----and it's not just in this thread..............
thank you for doing that............
Yankeefan, ianimal
You cant argue with the TRUTH!!!! and Facts as seen before our eyes!! Call it whatever you want!!
Just to be clear:
Just because someone thinks justice was served in this case does not mean they are a racist. Which is what alot of the posters shouting "racist!" would have everyone believe.
I don't know which is worse, racist people or people who put the racist tag on people for no GOOD reason. It's like Obama- if you don't like the administration, you're a racist?!?!
And I'll state again- where were all the "race baiters" when the BLACK COP shot the WHITE kid? The black cop was "just doing his job" I suppose, where the white cop Wilson is automatically a racist?
Calling *specific* people animals/thugs/lazy based on their actual observed behavior is not racist.
JR, who exactly are you arguing with? Who said that if you believe that the officer was in the right, you are automatically a racist? Who accused the officer of being a racist? No one, that I can tell. I'm speaking strictly about this Forum, obviously.
But, if you refer to black people as "animals" and "thugs" or worse, you certainly come off as a racist, even if you don't think you are.
So if a person acts like an animal or a thug, they can't be called that. Got it.
once again why is eric holder still investigating the case the g.j. made their decision..holder said destroying property will not be tolerated. he is the attorney for the nation he should charge all those people and put them in prison..he is a racist..he is related to one of the students that was involved in the school that was desegregated in the 60's when they had to call in the nation guard down south and has spoken about how it effected him and that he never forgot about it..and remember when obama was first elected he wasn't in the white house five minutes and his wife said it's the first time in my life i feel like an american.no there's no racism there.when the president's wife makes a comment like that it speaks volumes..
Can we even call a person black anymore? or is that racist? lol!
Just checking because that card is pulled so often these days, you just never know when you will be accused of it.
ignats they said on the news the grand jury was picked before the brown incident even happened but i don't know what date..
IA,
I'm not arguing with anyone... as I stated, I was just making sure some things were CLEAR. Lest people get the wrong idea....which happens quite often these days in matters where race is involved.
geesh Philliesman - it's not about referring to someONE as a thug--- It's about referring to everyone who has something on common with the thug as a thug ---
You seriously don't get that?
5catmom.. Im so sorry you might have been offended when I called MB a thug. The looters, torchers , vandals and rioters in general are all thugs in my book. But since you are so offended with the word thug lets try to find a new word to replace it. Sweetheart ? prescious ? baby doll ? honeypot ? Please feel free to add your own.
"It's about referring to everyone who has something on common with the thug as a thug"
Well, when that "something in common" is acting like thug- rioting and looting and destroying- then yes.
I don't see where anyone here called ALL black people in Ferguson "thugs" "animals" or anything else.... I only see the black people who are acting like thugs and rioters and destroyers and criminals being called those things.
"you seriously don't get that?"
Brown was a thug and unfortunately deserved his fate. Many blacks want thugs to be treated with kid gloves. Until we have robots in law enforcement, this is not going to happen out of personal safety for human police officers...
iJay whats the legal factors for the insurance companies paying up for the people who owned the stores that were burned down..are they off the hook for payment because the store burning's were an act of violence..
Ian........ I'm Still waiting for your answer to my question. Just curious what the most intelligent person on the forums opinion is.
While there are some posts that seem to reflect overt racism there are others that trend towards reverse racism. But I think most are focused on the actions of the parties involved - Brown, Wilson & looters - and not race.
Whether you agree or not with the Grand Jury's decision, it was theirs to make and a decision that they did not rush into. NPR has some of the better summaries of the information. http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/11/25/366507379/ferguson-docs-how-the-grand-jury-reached-a-decision
Sounds like the data is starting to come out but still more to come, the NPR piece is the best I have seen. Even if Wilson is exaggerating, one, two, three blows in the face and you will be off center with the adrenaline running full pace.
Not sure what this kid was thinking but certainly not thinking right.
On the flip side, you can see the prosecutor cross examining the eye witnesses repeatedly to clarify what they saw, but Wilson seems to skate by without a lot of probing. Probably similar to the examinations on most police shootings though.
iJay says: Many blacks want thugs to be treated with kid gloves.
1. Is that both white and black thugs? Or are there only blacks thugs?
2. I sincerely doubt you have a clue what "many blacks" want. Or even one.
Nobody is a "thug" until they touch your stuff..otherwise they are just poor misguided youths
Just an observation. The riots in LA years ago confirmed this for SOME blacks. As for my statement I stand by it. Take OJ, most blacks knew he was guilty but they felt the verdict was fair because White people get away with crimes very often so it is only fair.
Bill Cosby has spoken for years that Black people have to be more accountable, although news of late puts his character in question...
Here's any interesting article on lapses in police procedure in handling the "investigation. Those with an open mind might like to read it.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/seemingly-unorthodox-police-procedures-emerge-in-grand-jury-documents/2014/11/25/48152574-74e0-11e4-bd1b-03009bd3e984_story.html
Unfortunately many white people will think all black people are not to be trusted because of the behavior of so many in Ferguson. Even good law abiding black people who live a productive life and contribute positively to the community will be scarred by the behavior of the lawbreakers. Such a shame that the lawful citizens have to pay the price for the bad ones.
Gadfly who are the ones that have an open mind? Those who think based on the fact presented that the cop was justified in his actions or those who want to ignore the facts and just go by emotions and think he was wrong?
Because even if you remove all the witness and Wilson's testimony, the physical evidence seems to justify Wilson's actions
Facts:
Brown's blood in the car
Brown's blood on the gun
Brown's blood in a spot further from the car from where he died. Indicating he stopped, turned and came back towards Wilson
Shots fired in the car with Brown being hit in right thumb. Indicating a struggle in the car with the gun
Video showing Brown robbing a store movements before and roughing up the clerk which show how aggressive he was just moments before his run in with Wilson
Again Brown is dead by his own actions that day.
Exactly. If Brown had been white, he'd be dead. If the cop had been black, Brown would be dead. If they were both white, Brown would be dead. Actions have consequences- it's called personal responsibility, and Brown received the consequences of his actions. He slept in the bed HE made.
Also fact:
All bullets enter Brown from the front. So any witness testimony that Brown was shot in the back is bs and therefore the rest of their story is questionable at best. It's hard to believe anything else they said happened when that major part was proven false by the physical evidence.
Also any witness testimony that said Wilson was pulling Brown into the car can be throw out by simply using common sense. Who in their right mind would want to pull a 6'6" 292 pound man thru a car window on top of them??? How the hell is that an advantage for the person in the car?
Darwin,
You're gonna' have to stop using common sense. It's not welcomed in these discussions, lol.
Haha you're right. That is one thing that definetly is lacking on here. Btw made it to OH. Left last night went halfway and stayed in a hotel. Good luck it's your trip tomorrow morning
Is it that hard a question Darwin? People with open minds are those that are not so committed to their position that they cannot change their mind.
For instance, you might want to re-evaluate how much it means that blood was found on the gun. Officer Wilson drove back to the station, alone, with the gun in his possession. He entered it into an evidence bag, apparrently with no one else present, and then later told the investigators what he had done. What kind of investigation is that?
"Unfortunately many white people will think all black people are not to be trusted because of the behavior of so many in Ferguson."
And at that point, many white people will be at the same exact place where many black people are right now with the police. This isn't an isolated incident; it's been decades in the making and is only going to get worse and more frequent. We may as well get used to it. In a few years, it'll be like a traffic accident... so common as not to warrant any news coverage at all.
Oh I see your going with the OJ defense. The blood was planted. That somehow the cop went up to the body that was laying in the middle of the street and had dozens of people watching and recording it, and somehow got some blood to rub on his gun and inside his car. Yup I guess my mind is not open enough to buy that.
Oh, you're right Darwin. It's impossible to tamper with evidence. That's why the police generally let suspects handle it in private before it's locked away in the evidence room.
Where would he have time to tamper with the evidence? Where would he have time to find some of browns blood and put it in his car and on his gun? The body was still in the street when Wilson left for the police station. He bagged the gun and turned it over to the detective.
Looked through the link that had the documents from the grand jury investigation. The crime reports I saw didn't mention the trail of blood extending 20 feet from where he lay. Of course I may have missed it. If true, and the trail wasn't actually splattered blood from exit velocity, then I can see physical evidence supporting the officer's story. Other than that you've got a lot of evidence that supports both stories.
Anyone have a link to the grand jury documents showing the "20 ft trail of blood" evidence, other than witness testimony? Surely if the trail was there it would be quite positive for the officer and would be found in the crime reports.
And JR, I'm just asking here. Like Gadfly said, it really is OK to ask questions.
Report here mentions the blood trail, but not the distance. Supposedly there's a diagram of the scene somewhere that has the info. Haven't located that yet...
http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/1370840-14-43984-care-main.html
Lots of info, I'm really surprised that this much was actually released to the public.
Maybe this will help JIT. Have to scroll down pretty far but it talks about the different locations of blood.
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/11/26/us/ferguson-grand-jury-weighed-mass-of-evidence-much-of-it-conflicting.html?referrer=&_r=0
Where would he have time to tamper with the evidence? Where would he have time to find some of browns blood and put it in his car and on his gun? The body was still in the street when Wilson left for the police station. He bagged the gun and turned it over to the detective."
If i remember correct, "witnesses" started rolling footage before the second police car even showed up, and brown was shot right before the second police car showed up
If there was any tampering, it would of been caught on this footage for sure
I haven't looked at the blood trail evidence in the report yet, but apparrently the medical examiner didn't take photos or measurements of the scene.
Exactly. There were people that witness the schuffle at the car and then the shooting. Then once everyone heard the shoots even more witnesses showed up. With camera and video. So when and how did Wilson supposedly find some of brown's blood to put on his hands,gun,pants and inside his car without any one on the street seeing him?
Jesus, remember all those white people marching, looting and burning down stores and cars when OJ was acquitted after he killed two innocent white people?
Oh, wait...Never mind, they didn't...
Sorry but saying the cops could have tampered with the evidence doesn't make one "opened minded" it just means you refuse to accept the evidence as facts simply because they don't support your beliefs.
Remember all those white people who were descended from those who were living under the yoke of slavery and then spent another century as second class citizens and had their most visible proponents of civil rights assassinated and were then subjugated into situations where the government flooded their neighborhoods with drugs again and again and since then have been ruled from without by people with no ties to their community?
Oh yeah, there weren't any.
It's funny how people who are so concerned with how the government *might* oppress them in the future are so quick to dismiss those who have been and continue to be oppressed right now.
Darwin, you're obviously so convinced of your position that you won't even consider any addition information, and are actually offended by anyone that tries to present any. Yep, you're open minded for sure.
Also, you're making some grand, and incorrect, assumptions about "my beliefs". You're the one that is so sure of what happened. I'm still looking at the facts.
Oppressed? Our president is black and the attorney general is too, some of the richest people, tv, music and business are black. The past that you speak of as slavery no one today experienced. It does not justify a strong arm robbery, assaulting a cop and then rioting to loot.
From above: "If Brown had been white, he'd be dead. If the cop had been black, Brown would be dead. If they were both white, Brown would be dead."
Possibly true. The statements contain a lot of suppositions, though. My own guess, and it's only a guess of course, is that if both Brown and the cop were white, the initial verbal exchange would have featured less hostility and fear, and things would not have escalated into a shooting.
Darwin... you must remember that, for some, facts don't really matter.... whatever the perspective.
All I know, is that all the shoe stores that were broken into,and shoes stolen, all the work boots were left in there boxes ?
LoBo Did you guys know slavery was Bush's fault?
Whenever someone brings out the "slavery defense" I know they have run out of any substantive argument.
"Brown was a thug and unfortunately deserved his fate. "
This is, unfortunately, the major issue here. In our society, heck in any society of civilized, rational people, you don't kill people for being an thug, idiot, animal, ahole or racist, PERIOD. If anyone thinks that statement is untrue then you would be quite happy if 90% of the population was exterminated, yourself included. We're all animals then, right?
The issue is whether or not the officer killed in self defense. PERIOD. Race has nothing to do with it, personalities have nothing to do with it, previous actions have nothing to do with it. Choices made at that moment in time have everything to do with it.
If the officer was being attacked in his car and defended himself, then he defends himself as required. But if the guy runs away and is no longer an immediate threat then he was murded. If he then turns around and in fact does come back toward the officer aggressively self defense once again kicks in. The evidence that supports this is the blood trail and the corresponding testimony.
looks like the grand jury got it right. and the grandj urers did cross examine the cop who didn't have to testify at all but volunteered to do so and spent four hours with them,
the notion that there was no cross-examination appears to be false, the grandjury gets to ask any questions they want to during the process. each member gets to talk, speak and ask questions as they come up,
so looks like they got this one right.
however, i would like to know (and there is no way to verify it at this time) what was the initial exchange between the officer and the jay walking men who closely resembled the description in the recent BOLA regarding the cigar robbery that the officer had just herd on his police radio. iow, would a different approach have resulted in a different outcome? (speculation i know, and now we'll most likely never know)
the experience of this generation of African Americans is a direct result of how our country has evolved, and i think that all of us, that means everyone of us in every balkanized fractured and idiosyncratic neighborhood has to get on board with developing new approaches that addresses this issue. as far as we have come in the last 50 years, it is quite clear to me reading this thread that we still have a long way to go.
Just to add a little to JIT's good comment, there is also that troublesome matter of a person (officer in this case) acting because of a belief that his life was in danger, even if it really was not. Such a killing is the downside of a person being armed. (Yes, I know there are upsides also - not trying to start an argument about that.)
"Slavery defense" implies that I was defending anything; I wasn't. The cop was right; the looters are wrong. I'm just trying to give you a little perspective on why many black people don't trust the police or the justice system. It's 50, if not 500, years in the making and it isn't going to change any time soon. But this is a discussion for another day. I thankfully have more important and festive things to concern myself with today.
Happy Thanksgiving everyone.
I agree JIT. And the resulting violence is shameful.
That said, I find it hard to understand someone believing there is no discrimination or race-based difficulties in America. How can one erase the stigma and the memories of slavery, the klan, Jim Crow, and the rest? It's all connected and Jim Crow lasted until 1965. That's legal discrimination existing after many of us were born. How can you not believe that illegal and informal discrimination does not exist in America targeting Blacks, Hispanics, and even women at unacceptable levels? At the same time, folks here readily "recall" the abuses, hardships, and successes from their ancestors 50 or 100 years ago but feel that Blacks should just brush it off.
btw bdog, I don't happen to agree that the facts are cut and dry, just that they skew toward the officer. The sketch that darwin led me to shows only TWO droplets of blood 18 feet away. Two. No "trail". I would ask if exit velocity would do that. Although i doubt it, I have no idea. But if only two spots were identified the guy must have been running *really* fast to not have left any others. Either that or the crime scene sketch is incomplete. Another question mark.
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/11/25/us/100000003254276.mobile.html
Sketch is at the bottom, you'll need to look at both the sketch and the text to see what was identified at each location.
Jd2 how do you figure after the cop was assailed and there was a struggle for the gun he was not in danger?
justpassinthru: Sorry I was not clear. I was just making a GENERAL comment, in response to JIT's, that shootings are considered justified not only in true self-defense, but often also if the shooter BELIEVED his life was in danger, even if it wasn't. The latter obviously is quite troublesome. I don't know which was applicable in the Ferguson incident.
Okay, another general comment would be this - more often than not, I think a white cop will sooner wrongly fear his life to be in danger when dealing with an unarmed African-American male than when dealing with an unarmed white male. It's a little of the fear of the unknown.
"but often also if the shooter BELIEVED his life was in danger, even if it wasn't."
Here's a pro tip. Don't physically assault somebody who is or may be armed, and you won't give them any reason to believe their life is in danger.
Simple, right?
One more thing...
Deadly force laws generally require a *reasonable* belief. In other words, the 300 pound man beating the crap out of you creates a reasonable belief of a life threatening situation that just about ANY average person would have with the situation/information available *at that time*.
I just came across the following today in "Salon.com." It wasn't about Ferguson, but I'm relating because it's 1) funny and 2) addresses the frustration that has built up over years. The subject is Richard Prior in 1977:
"When he appeared on the Tonight Show to promote his special, Richard announced that he would be in Detroit later that month filming Paul Schrader’s Blue Collar, a story about auto assembly line workers. Then he issued an advisory to that city’s police: “I’ll be jogging in the morning, police, me and Rashon, two black men, we‘ll be jogging, we’re not robbing anyone, do not shoot us accidentally as we’re jogging in the streets of Detroit.”
Johnny Carson hung his head and sighed.
“You have to announce these things,” Richard told him.
FYI I haven't seen this anywhere in the news
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=HMQCFqgAGyM
How about this?
http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/nation-and-world/black-residents-protect-white-owned-store-fergusonhttp://
and this...
www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/11/28/kid-holding-free-hugs-sign-at-portland-protest-attracts-cops-attention-what-happens-next-sends-their-encounter-viral/
Thanks for sharing the Sheriff Clarke Speech, Old Gent. Positive things happen when good men do something.
Yes, Old Gent, thank you for posting Sheriff Clarke's speech. I too missed this on the news.
Wisdom, even when spoken softly, comes across loud and clear to those who take the time to listen and are willing to try a new approach. He, and others like him, deserve to be in leadership positions in this country and at this very time...
old gent and spring fever are spot on, the news machine should have reported on it, but it doesn't fit their 'unfair' victimization narrative. the sheriff brings up some very salient points that are good to consider, all those in leadership positions should take note, that includes the race baiting Eric Holder:
"Sheriff Clarke talks about Ferguson Missouri and how politicians and irresponsible groups came like vultures on a roadside carcass to exploit the situation. Eric Holder made a bad situation worse with self-serving rhetoric. "
as sheriff clarke correctly points out; "Eric Holder made a bad situation worse with self-serving rhetoric."
eric holder's actions and statements are like pouring gas on a fire.
For a better understanding of what is happening in Furguson (and around the country) I encourage people to watch a movie called "Runaway Slave"
Watch the 2 minute trailer...
http://www.runawayslavemovie.com/
The DVD is also available at the Warren County Library
C.L. Bryant: Host and Original Concept
A licensed and ordained Baptist minister for more than 30 years, Rev. C.L. Bryant takes moviegoers on an incredible journey through history and current events in the new documentary RUNAWAY SLAVE. Rev. Bryant is a highly sought-after speaker, thanks to his unique insight on religious, political, and racial issues. A one-time NAACP chapter president (in Garland, Texas), Rev. Bryant now believes the values he once vehemently upheld have led the black community into a state of bondage at the hands of the U.S. government. He is a Tea Party Patriot, a charter member of the Red River Tea Party and the Shreveport/Bossier Tea Party, co-founder of the Desoto Parish Grassroots, founder of the national movement One Nation Back to God (www.onenationbacktoGod.com), and Fellow with Freedom Works Foundation in Washington, D.C. He has been married 36 years to the former Jane C. Pruitt and they have four children and eight grandchildren
Gardenfish This is what this dummy(Old Gent) has been saying for years. It's not only blacks. We all are slaves to government with our loss of Freedom and opportunity.
Yes, Runway Slave will explain all.....
the movie that garnered less than $75,000 since it's 2012 premier has viewers.....well, actually it does not have viewers.
the movie that links Glenn Beck to Martin Luther King in the first minutes.
the move where Beck, Breitbart, Whittle, and Katz explain the Black experience.
the "apolitical" movie funded by FreedomWorks which is a Koch Bro's creation and constantly tries to hide it's Tea Party ties.
Funded by an apolitical 501c, RunawaySlave slams the Democratic party and President Obama as the root of most of it's problems. FreedomWorks is also paying for many of the tickets in their quest to apolitically educate America at the tune of millions; but hey, it's not a paid political announcement, it's not a paid political announcement.....
Hey, wasn't Herman Cain a Runaway Slave candidate for President? He's in there.
To save you the boredom and the time, here's the bottom line: Welfare = Slavery, Slavery bad. Accepting abortion means Hispanics win. Democrats equal welfare, Democrats like abortion, Democrats bad. If Obama white, you no vote for him. Tea Party = Free, Free, Free at Last.
FreedomWorks is paying for a lot of the tickets, so the movie has that going for it. But if getting a free ticket to be forced to listen to a pitch for something you don't want to buy turns you on, I suggest there are better pitch perks than a dark movie theater.
"Yes, Runway Slave will explain all....."
Actually, no, it won't. That's your job, isn't it? ;-)
The main issue here is that the media is using Mike Brown to spearhead this agenda. There were plenty of other better examples of police brutality, for example, the Oscar Grant incident (google that) which could be used to highlight the disproportional police brutality on people of color in the United States. Truth is.. yes, racism still exists and this is a huge issue. But this particular case has been blown out of proportion... if they read the entire transcript of the grand jury hearing, and really learned the facts of the case, they'd see that Darren Wilson was simply doing his job and made a split second decision in a moment of danger. The man does not deserve to be crucified. We have worse racial issues to focus on than this. Let's put our activisim where it really counts, instead of beating a dead horse.
Old Toad Reach for a cops gun - you will get shot.
What am I missing? How is this racist?
More than enough evidence that the cop was going to be attacked.
Why is this punk thief being made a hero?
11 Yes eleven persons have been shot in Newark Nj since Saturday. Where is the outrage from the protestors and Big Al ? Clean up your own mess and stop screaming racism . Personally Im tired of it and if that makes me a racist to anyone so be it Five blacks were charged with raping a girl at William Paterson . Where is the outrage ? Remember Tawana Brawley ?
+++++jerseycash5,
the good Rev. Al makes his money from racism..The more violence, the more contributions he gets...He is never held to account for the wrongs he has done, because that would cause even more violence and he knows it.
Anyone that supports him and Jesse Jackson, are making them very rich...
All I know for sure is that as a 53 year old white woman, if I tried to grab a cops gun, punched him in the face, ran away, then turned and charged at the cop, I would end up shot to death too. Sometimes we do things that cause our own demise. Period.
Who will protest and march for the victims of the Ferguson violence? No one. Sharpton and his cronies are no different than the KKK.
"Sharpton and his cronies are no different than the KKK."
Uh, no........
The grand jury has spoken and that's that. Perhaps Federal Charges against Ferguson but doubtful the Fed will do anything against Wilson so that's another story about police abuse in general.
Grand Juries are not trials, there is no defense. Grand Juries always indict except in police cases when they rarely indict. There, benefit of the doubt goes to the cops from jurors who tend to believe cops more than witnesses, prosecutors work hand in glove with police so they tend to tread softly whether on purpose or not, of behalf of the organization they work with and depend on day in and day out, and for visible cases like this ---- prosecutors go ahead convening the jury even if they know they will fail.
This was not a trial. It was a grand jury investigation waged by the prosecutor, the legal arm of the police, as to whether charges should be brought. If you read the transcript of Wilson himself, you can see the prosecutor soft shoeing it; Wilson basically gives his well-rehearsed rendition of the facts. In some cases the prosecutors tosses out softballs like "explain the chain of command" seemingly just to fill time. Jurors do ask questions, but no one really puts this man to the cross.
But when you read the transcript of the witnesses, the "facts" are questioned, and probed, and a firm cross examination is always presented by the prosecutor.
So the "facts" are in, the grand jury has spoken, and if you grab a cop's gun, you can be shot. Frankly, that makes sense to me. Especially if the cop is in high anxiety mode, has been smacked around, real fear of imminent death at having his gun gone for, the adrenaline is running high, and you are big, and perhaps looking really scary since you've just been shot. I remember a policeman friend once telling me, "I carry a shot gun because when you shoot, better to put him down than have a through and though and then face what comes after that." We can't know what Brown was thinking, but after begin shot, sometimes you don't think at all.
I can see people being real upset at the police in Ferguson and other places. I just can't see the grand jury verdict as being the cause celeb to make that protest. I can't condone violence as helping the situation whatsoever. It's senseless, unproductive, and harms the very cause that they are protesting about which, in this case, is misplaced since if you grab a cops gun, chances are you are looking to get shot. And no grand jury is going to convict after that.
Your right jerseycash5 I see your point
five black man are accused of raping a girl and are now guests of the states correctional institution a Ferguson police officer is accused of killing an unarmed black man and is given paid leave to spend time with his family. To use your own words Where is the outrage ?
hey, jd2 has a good point in reminding us of the Richard pryor appearance on the Johnny Carson show,
i recall that well as i was watching Carson that night, Pryor was very funny, and there is truth in what he says,and he was at the height of his game that year
thanks jd2 for posting it.
this is why we need comics (who retain the right to freely express themselves, so all you Politically Correct speech editors need to take note), comics tell the truth to us in funny ways, Pryor was funny that night in 1977 because the truth hurts a little bit, and as Robert Heinlein dissected for us how humor works in his great novel 'Stranger in a Strange Land', we laugh because it hurts a little bit,
the truth of Richard Pryor's commentary hurts a little bit, and that's why we laugh.
We need more truth sayers at this time, we shouldn't be closing them down using the rigorous dictum's of the Politically Correct mob mentality.
in that same vein, here is a link to a public service announcement from Chris Rock:
"how not to get your ass kicked by the police"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gCCjFbFXn8
it's funny, because as Heinlein correctly explains, the truth hurts a little bit and we laugh to help protect ourselves from the pain
Oldred Please take the next bus to Ferguson. You are needed there. Don't forget to bring plenty of lighter fluid and a big magic marker for your " We wuv u Michael Brown " sign.
"accused of killing an unarmed black man"
He ceased to be "unarmed" the moment he started pounding on a police officer's face and attempted to grab a firearm. Plenty of cases where a single punch has killed someone, so fists can be deadly weapons.
You know me, I love to hold police accountable for ACTUAL abuse of power, but if this is the best example you can come up with you really aren't paying attention to facts anymore and are just spewing emotional drivel.
While the shoot seems OK, that doesn't justify the inept and overbearing response the police had to some of the initial protests, so there are issues to be worked out in those police departments.
I cannot believe the "Natives" Haven't Simmered down yet!
I'd Fix it,,,,,
I'd unleash the Vicious Dogs!
MG the witnesses' "facts" were questioned because they did not match up with the physical evidence. When a witness states under oath that he saw Brown being shot in the back while evey autopsy proves he was not shot in the back I would hope that witness would be questioned by the DA.
Darwin,
I think MGs point was that it is not normal for a prosecutor to present contradictory evidence at a grand jury trial. The way it's supposed to work is that the prosecutor presents an abbreviated version of testimony and evidence that would support conviction/indictment and the grand jury decides wheather that evidence could support a conviction. Contradictory evidence would come up at actual trial and would presented by the defense, not the prosecutor.
Prosecutors get the decision they are looking for the vast majority of the time - normally an indictment. In this case, the prosecutor also got the decision he was looking for - no indictment. If it were you or I, you can bet that the prosecutor wouldn't be acting as our de facto defense attorney.
Does this mean Wilson is guilty? Certainly not. But, it does undercut any credibility that may have come being cleared by the normal grand jury process.
jerseycash5 exactly the kind of response I expected attack the messenger for showing the stupidity of your post Where is the outrage ?
I see now the same grand jury is looking to charge Brown's step father for egging on the rioting by screaming "Burn this Bit** Down" for the hood of a car.
I honestly hope they do, and I can honestly say I hope they can do some face recognition with all the footage of the rioters and looters and charge every single one of them.
I think Charles Barkley hit it right on with his comments:
http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/02/us/charles-barkley-on-race/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
I believe there will be another grand jury in this case. I say that because of some of the blatant incompetence shown by the prosecution one of the biggest blunders the prosecution did was in the first days of the grand jury the prosecution gave the jury a copy of the Missouri law that states a police officer may shoot a fleeing suspect. Knowing full well that the Supreme Court determined that shooting a fleeing suspect is unconstitutional unless the suspect is armed and imposes a threat to the officer. The Supreme Court handed down that ruling in the early 1970s. So at the end of the grand jury the prosecutors told jurors to disregard some of Missouri's fleeing suspect laws when jurors asked what parts of the law they should disregard the prosecution refused to answer the question
I don't think there will be another grand jury.
Also, I don't have any issue with the cross exam on any of the witnesses, I was just pointing out that it's pretty apparent that Wilson did not face the same level of scrutiny and basically was allowed to tell his story, at his pace, without challenge.
Many of these folks painted a different picture when challenged. Probably being unprepared a number changed their story. But Wilson, who I am sure was much better rehearsed than any other witness, skated free without any rigorous questioning.
Nothing wrong or illegal but was further pointing out that this was NOT a trial. Wilson did not face a vigorous cross or challenge of his eye witness account.
I still agree with the verdict, but would never say that this was a trial, it was a grand jury, and they are very different than a trial. No matter how you cut it, this was the prosecutor's show, and the prosecutor depends entirely on the police to succeed in his job, and that's who he was looking to indict here, his own partner so to speak.
I still agree with the verdict.
Here we go again New York City a grand jury has decided not to indict on any charges a white police officer in the chokehold death of a black suspect selling cigarettes on the street even though videotape evidence clearly shows the officer using a chokehold on the suspect which is illegal to do in New York the grand jury decided there wasn't enough evidence to go to trial. I wonder what evidence a grand jury needs maybe if the officer would have put a chokehold on the grand jury they would've indicted him
Thats what the Justice system has become, oldred Different strokes for different folks.Look at all the scams wall street and bankers pulled. You don't see them in jail.
Anyone who has wrestled or even watched a match knows that a headlock and a choke hold are different. When your being choked you can't say I can't breathe. This person died because of his weight and the fact that he resisted arrest. Bottom line is he would be alive if he just put his hands behind his back and fought in court.
From what I read a choke hold is not illegal. What is a scam is process. It is said that prosecutor can indict a Ham Sandwich. In these cases they did not want an indictment. The Officers were not judged by their peers in a court of law but by the Government by not pursuing the charges as is normally done. Justice.
What about the cop in NYC that pounded the poor guys head into the pavement? Or the lazy EMTs that just stood there?
So tired of hearing this crap on tv tonight. Don't commit crimes, and maybe you won't die during an arrest.
And for any of you who think I'm a racist, .... I have just about as many black friends as white friends .... and in speaking about this today at work, nearly EVERY SINGLE black friend of mine agrees with the grand jury verdict in Ferguson, .... and all but one agreed that the officers in the so-called "choke-hold" case should be found not guilty. My one dear friend (she is black) who said the cop was guilty of murder also said she believes that the guy should NOT have even been on the street in the first place with 33 prior arrests. Hard to argue with that logic.
SO, why the effen hell does the media in NYC (and Ferguson) interview only blacks that are outraged by the decision to not indict? Seems to me that the MEDIA are the ones trying to incite the riots.
I am satisfied with both Ferguson and NYC decisions no matter if the person was white, black, red, yellow, blue, or green. Race is NOT an issue in these cases.
gimme-a-break gimme-a-break, here's one white person shaking his head at the NYC grand jury ruling. It has nothing to do with race and everything to do with excessive use of force.
"Don't commit crimes, and maybe you won't die during an arrest."
Sorry, but I have to say it. That's the most stupid thing I've ever heard.
Used to be a time in this aging man's life when punishment for crimes was doled out under the judicial system. In case you don't know, that would be one of the THREE branches of our government, structured as such to ensure separation of powers so that any one of the three could be held to task for ILLEGAL ACTIVITY. Law enforcement officers fall under the Executive branch, do they not? In case you aren't getting it, that means LEO's cannot summarily inflict punishments just because they're mad, angry, pissed off, or just because they think they can. If I'm not mistaken, killing someone is a pretty serious form of punishment, isn't it?
The executive branch ENFORCES laws. They do NOT make summary judgements at will. They are supposed to bring people to the judiciary and let the courts decide punishment. What the courts did in this case is sickening. At the very least there should be a trial, and if in the course of that trial leniency is dictated then fine. But to pretend that no crime was committed by the LEO is a downright scary thing to do as a society. Someone lost their life due to the actions of another. What else do you need to know before you bring someone to trial?
The court did it's job and found no wrong doing by the officers. The officers did their job and tried to arrest the guy. The only one who was in the wrong all along was the deceased. Again it was not a choke hold. Watch a wrestling match. They wear head gear to protect their ears during a headlock. Or every high school wrestling team should be arrested for excessive force and trying to murder the opposing team!
well if this was a HS wrestling match he would be called for an illegal headlock. Need to lock and arm along with the head for it to be legal. This was a choke hold, anyone who says different is nuts. The arm went across his throat and he locked with the other arm. Classic WWF choke hold. I get that Eric was a big dude and the cop was pretty small compared to him but then he should have waited for backup if he was unable to restrain him.
IMO: Ferguson cop was right, NYC cop was wrong.
It's not a matter of "who's right" and who's wrong." It's a matter of the underlying systematic injustices that lead to a targeting of black people.
soccermom79 I don't think I know enough info about the NYC case to really make a say, But from watching the video, I do not know how the cop was found innocent
"It's a matter of the underlying systematic injustices that lead to a targeting of black people."
There is no targeting, it is the media doing the targeting. All this has been going on and meanwhile many vice versa cases have gone through without any media attention. The media wants to make it look like targeting, and they grow a monster from it.
Even if it was to be targeting, you are going to grow a targeting case from 2 instances over 4 months? I am sure there are more racists in america then two cops in 4 months in all of america, that's the best they could come up with......to make a targeting controversy?
Darrin, really? There is no targeting? These statistics(from the New York Civil Liberties Union homepage) makes it pretty clear that targeting/profiling is standard operating procedure.
•In 2012, New Yorkers were stopped by the police 532,911 times
473,644 were totally innocent (89 percent).
284,229 were black (55 percent).
165,140 were Latino (32 percent).
50,366 were white (10 percent).
•In 2013, New Yorkers were stopped by the police 191,558 times.
169,252 were totally innocent (88 percent).
104,958 were black (56 percent).
55,191 were Latino (29 percent).
20,877 were white (11 percent).
•During the first three-quarters of 2014, New Yorkers were stopped by the police 38,456 times.
31,661 were totally innocent (82 percent).
20,683 were black (54 percent).
10,483 were Latino (27 percent).
4,590 were white (12 percent).
5catmom He broke Department rules, but it's not illegal,which the grand adhered to.
I do believe it was excessive force and a contributing factor in his death.
The ME concluded it was homicide and the CHOKE hold contributed to it. This cop needs to be charged to the fullest. Our judicial system is SO broken. DISGRACEFUL what they get away with. Makes me sick!
+1 Darwin (8 hours ago)
NYPD officers are not permitted to use a chokehold because it is potentially lethal. This officer used a chokehold in violation of the NYPD policy and the victim died as a result. It is rediculous that there was no indictment. Just another example of how the police are above the law.
Yankee...... Where's your stats on the % of crime committed by blacks or the % of blacks in prison population??
There is a difference between Rules and Law. Blame the prosecutor ( who is a part of law enforcement) for doing a lousy job protecting the public..
"This officer used a chokehold in violation of the NYPD policy and the victim died as a result."
But hey, at least the officers went home safe, right? I mean it's a dangerous job and all (just behind loggers, fishermen, pilots, roofers, steel workers, garbage men, electrical linesmen, truck drivers, farmers, ranchers, and construction workers). Don't we expect all of those industries to kill a few bystanders in the line of duty as well, to ensure they can get home for dinner?
Philliesman, it actually reinforces the point:
Black men were more than six times as likely as white men to be incarcerated in federal and state prisons, and local jails in 2010, the last year complete data are available, according to a Pew Research Center analysis. That is an increase from 1960, when black men were five times as likely as whites to be incarcerated.
The problem is the police officers that are being hired today, when was the last time you seen a cop who is in shape ? It appears every cop out there is 4 feet tall or obese or both, 3 or 4 cops can not handle these normal sized men, just look at the NY incident video, looked like 6 scared cops all half his size, look at the cops in your own town, most are wimpy.
Rambo, normal sized men? Seriously? Very few people are that big unless you're seriously overweight ......
Getting back on topic, for all you morons who think the NYC decision is wrong, .... I hope that someone like Eric Garner breaks into your home and threatens you, your spouse, and your kids, .... and when the cops come .... and they say they can't bring him down easily, ..... I hope you then condone the officer doing what it takes to bring the CRIMINAL down. Will you still protest when the police actions save your sorry ass?
I sincerely wish the cops in NYC would not have put Mr Garner in a choke hold .... they should have just shot that criminal for resisting arrest ..... game over. Commit a crime, .... and bear the risk. And for what it's worth, many NYC cops and ex-cops agree. Google it. Are they all criminals?
And in case you didn't know, the coroner's report says that Eric Garner had advanced coronary disease ..... he would have been dead after his next double-cheeseburger anyway.
The NYC case, despite being heard and decided by the grand jury, is not nearly as "clean cut" as ferguson was. Nothing about the ferguson case "bothers" me, after seeing all the evidence/testimony. But I'm not so sure about this NYC case..... definitely not as clear.....
And those of you here who know me, KNOW I am not a "pro-cop" or "anti-cop" guy..... the cops have no more right to break the law than we do, and the militarization of the police is something I have been warning about for quite awhile now.....
right, the cops went from zero - 60 in a split second, where is the middle ground? where is the controlled approach?
we have too many laws, so what f the guy was selling some of his left over cigs? (loosies? really? they have a law on the books about that?)
if i am a smoker and someone is out of cigs, and i give them a pack and they give me the money for them do i now owe the state a tax? weren't they already taxed when i first bought them?
how many low level infractions of the law are we going to enforce with the threat of instant death?
0 - 60 in a split second and the guy died, there is something wrong with this whole case
I'll admit I haven't followed this case too closely, but honestly all of it was unnecessary to begin with IMO. To even arrest someone over a few untaxed cigarettes? Ridiculous. I would think in a big city they could find much bigger problems to concern themselves with. It wasn't like he was some hard core criminal.
gimme-a-break are you serious? So just because he would have been dead anyway due to his love of cheeseburgers apparently, it's ok? lol The way you said that makes it sound as though you think NYPD was just helping him out to get the job done faster.
33 prior arrests .... you're another moron. Let's see how you feel when a thug like him threatens your life .... or your spouse's or kids lives ...
Like I said I don't know all of the details, but please tell me those prior arrests were not for something petty like cigarettes. You say I'm a moron, yet you are comparing a guy selling cigarettes to a thug that is going to threaten my life. Hmm, Seems like someone is rather defensive. Are you a cop? Sounds like you have that shoot first, ask questions later mentality like some of our other boys in blue.
gimme-a-break - I would bet quite a bit of money that wouldn't be so outwardly racist if you didn't have the guise of anonymity on the internet. Funny how that works. Lemme break it down for ya:
"I hope that someone like Eric Garner breaks into your home and threatens you, your spouse, and your kids"
or GOD FORBID tries to sell me a cigarette. The horror!
"Let's see how you feel when a thug like him threatens your life"
Did you even watch the tape or-
BrotherDog and JeffersonRepub - Well, well, well. There's something we can agree on. The "broken window theory" is a lazy way of preventing crime and this is an instance of government overreach that is intolerable. Right on with the militarization/police state comment.
Remember when local cops were heckling the Freeholders about this? http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/warren-county/express-times/index.ssf/2013/05/washington_township_nj_set_to.html
Common theme here, anyone?
"I sincerely wish the cops in NYC would not have put Mr Garner in a choke hold .... they should have just shot that criminal for resisting arrest ..... game over. "
Just curious, but did you even read my first response to you above gimme-a-break? If so, do you understand what I wrote? Do you understand the legal role of law enforcement in our society?
" Let's see how you feel when a thug like him threatens your life .... or your spouse's or kids lives ..."
JRT will be prepared for that, I can assure you. But it's more likely this "thug" would just be offering to sell you cigarettes, in which case it wouldn't be terribly hard to just keep walking and not kill someone.
The amount of people who don't have the courage to post under their real name is amusing....don't hide behind fake names
I did watch the video and it is hard to tell, initially I do not think it was a choke hold, more less seemed that the officer put his arm around his neck and the other arm over his shoulder to pull him down to the ground. Once he got down to the ground there is too many people scrambling that I cannot tell if he lock arms. But....when he started yelling that he could not breath the officer was not even around his neck anymore, as soon as he was detained he released his hold
With this analysis I tend to lean more toward the officer, but like I said, this interpretation was only from a quick view of the video a few times
where can i get a three stooges t-shirt with obama-sharpton and holder on it instead of moe larry and curly..
If a person is arrested 30+ times then how many times did they break the law and not get caught ? I agree the cops could have had a slower approach before getting physical but Garner refused to be a law abiding citizen over and over and suffered the consequences.
Ok, I apologize for the offensive comments. That is not needed here.
But I have watched the video many times, and I honestly don't see a true choke hold. Grabbing someone around the neck is not a choke hold. (please look closely and slow down the video; you will see what I mean if you know anything about this subject)
I agree with Darrin and jerseycash5, but I'll still apologize for my previous insensitive and juvenile remarks.
Gimme,
I don't agree with you, but I applaud you for retracting statements that, upon second thought, you felt either weren't appropriate or weren't reflective of your real position. Not many do that. Good for you!
The "Brown Dude" Got what he deserved.
Check out this Video he was involved in!
http://shariaunveiled.wordpress.com/2014/12/10/breaking-the-real-michael-brown-they-dont-want-you-to-see-shocking-video-release/
You smear a dead man based on the a video posted on a website called "sharia unveiled". Wouldn't it be shocking if such a reliable website got it wrong? Reminds me of the time some posted a picture of a famous 30 year old rapper and said it was Trayvon Martin.
It took me a minute and a half to figure out that this guy is wearing earrings and Brown doesn't wear earrings in any photo available and doesn't appear to have pierced ears.
It took another 30 seconds to find this:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/shawnspall.asp
It doesn't matter anyway Gadfly. Jerk or Saint, the issue is still about whether or not the shooting was in self defense *at the time it occured*.
Haters gonna hate! ;-)
The shooting WAS in self defense.
The Brown character was armed, the minute he put his hand on the cops firearm, and created possible confusion and immediate action on the cops part to take brown down.
It's too bad that the incident couldn't be reeled back to the 50's. Take it as you may!
It would have been history 1 second after the lethal bullet did its job. Period.
It's real simple, watch the video
The first time he said he couldn't breath the cop was not even touching him.......where is the argument?
I cannot see how someone can even ATTEMPT to say this cop choked him not allowing him to breath.
Just love it now they want body cams on officers next they will say that the video has been tamper with
I watch Bluebloods, the Commish taught me the camera does not always tell the whole truth :>)
"The "Brown Dude" Got what he deserved."
That comment has nothing to do with self defense Embrydad. IMO your biases are leading you to conclusions that, while they may be correct, are arrived at in an extremely perverse way. IOW, if the guys skin color had nothing to do with the fact the officer killed him in self defense why point it out (repeatedly) and make a big deal about it, other than due to your personal race biases?
JIT, I don't think he was using "the brown dude" as a skin color reference, I though brown was a reference to his last name....aka Michael Brown? not sure, could be wrong, just how I took it
To those who think justice was served and the grand jury got it right and the prosecutor. Did a good job don't you feel kind of stupid about now
The prosecutor knowingly put witnesses on the stand he knew were not credible especially with witness 40 who told the grand jury almost exactly word for word what the, cop said. She said she was walking down the street when she witnessed the incident,come to find out she was not even in Ferguson that Day it was not the first time witness 40 has tried to get involved in high profile cases in the St. Louis area the prosecutor knew this but still put her on the stand
Old red
You do realize the lies he's speaking of are coming from are the witnesses who gave testimony for Mike Brown... If that's the case to charge to them would only have made matters worse, he would have the presumption of a witch hunt; during a time where tension was already high and still is......
No Brad. Prosecutor McCulloch didn't give many details, but he did say that one of the witnesses who backed Officer Wilson's story was clearly lying. His description matches witness 40, Sandra McElroy.
And as a reminder, in any other Grand Jury hearing, a prosecutor would never bring witnesses in to testify that support the dependent. If you or I were on trial, McElroy wouldn't have testified until the real trial (if then) and then would have been discredited under cross examination. In this case, the prosecutor brought her to GJ to sabatoge his own prosecution. The system 1, justice 0.
Gadfly
I am not sure what planet you are on. You act like only ONE witness lied when the majority of witnesses who testified for Mr Brown ADMITTED they were lying after the autopsy report came out. Turn off MSNBC and read a newspaper and maybe consider the WHOLE story instead of the part that best presents your case
Brad, I'm not sure which witnesses lied and which didn't, and neither do you b/c they weren't exposed to the scrutiny of cross examination.
Try to calm down and actually read what I'm saying for a moment. I don't have "a case". I'm not rooting for one side or the other. There is a legal system set up to try to get to the truth. It's not perfect, but it only works when it's applied fairly and objectively. Any other citizen would have been indicted bc the prosecutor would not have brought defence witnesses in to testify. That's how it works.
In this case, because Wilson's a cop, defense witnesses were brought to GJ to scuttle the indictment. That's just wrong. I'm not saying Wilson was guilty or not guilty. I'm saying it didn't go through the same process as anyone else would have.
throw out every single witness testimony, including Wilson's and you would still have gotten to a not guilty verdict. Unless you are a conspiracy person who think Brown's blood was planted all over the car, clothes, gun, ect.
Mike Brown committed suicide by cop. That has been pretty damned clearly shown. Hell, the autopsy reports alone almost prove that.
The Eric Garner case is another story....... if you anti-cop people* want a rallying cry, Ferguson ain't it. The country ain't buying it. You picked the wrong case.... you should have picked the Eric Garner case, and maybe you'd have alot more public sentiment behind your cause than you got with Ferguson.
*and, to be clear, I have personally been saying for awhile now that the LEOs in America are getting too arrogant, too militarized, and are becoming a possible danger to society if the trend continues. I am NOT a "the cop is always right" kinda' guy, I actually lean the OTHER way.... and I still think Mike Brown is responsible for his own death.
as to this discussion about the "witnesses lying"....
McCulloch reportedly said in an interview with KTRS Radio in St. Louis that witnesses made up stories to match those that were published in newspapers. He reportedly made a reference to a woman’s testimony who claimed she had seen the shooting of the black teenager by the white officer, but she “clearly wasn’t present” at the scene. McCulloch reportedly said that the woman “recounted a story right out of the newspaper" that backed Wilson’s version of events surrounding the fatal shooting that occurred Aug. 9.
"Clearly some were not telling the truth," McCulloch reportedly said. He also reportedly said that he wanted "anyone who claimed to have witnessed anything... presented to the grand jury," and added that he had no regrets about allowing non-credible witnesses present to the grand jury, The St. Louis Post-Dispatch reported.
"It's a legitimate issue. But in the situation -- again, because of the manner in which we did it -- we're not going to file perjury charges against anyone. There were people who came in and yes, absolutely lied under oath. Some lied to the FBI -- even though they're not under oath, that's another potential offense, a federal offense,” McCulloch said, according to NPR News. "I thought it was much more important that the grand jury hear everything, what people have to say -- and they're in a perfect position to assess the credibility, which is what juries do."
http://www.ibtimes.com/mike-brown-shooting-witnesses-gave-false-testimony-under-oath-ferguson-grand-jury-1763908
I am not taking sides I would just like a few questions answered. Where would Michael Brown be if.
1- He stayed home that nite.
2- He did not steal from the store owner.
3- He did not rough up the store owner.
4- He stopped when the officer asked him to.
5- He did not assault the cop.
One more question.
Where would Michael Brown be now if he went down into the hood and stole and assaulted a drug dealer?
There is clearly no case for brown, and the people who keep rioting, using it as "a example" are wasting their time. The people who keep saying hands up don't shoot, are making fools out of themselves, because there is not a single bit of evidence showing MB ever put his hands up, so why is everyone spreading false info....and protesting to it?
I do not understand how you can protest something that never happed
Hey Darrin,
Did you read about that cop in San Fransico that was just arrested for assault and perjury? Apparrently, he beat up a guy in a hospital emergency room waiting area, then arested the guy for assault, saying the guy atttacked him with a cane. Unfortunately for the cop, the whole thing was on camera. What do you think would have happened without the video? I'd suspect there would be no evidence that the man didn't attack him with his cane.
"I thought it was much more important that the grand jury hear everything, what people have to say -- and they're in a perfect position to assess the credibility, which is what juries do."
So this guy is actively presenting liars, while not providing any facts that may demonstrate the point, if it will help his case. Got it. Now can we expect the judicial system to be targeted as well? And some people really wonder why the legal system is so screwed up?
gadly, videos like that show up on the internet all the time. Some correct, some not. But it's happening somewhat regularly and being documented by average Joe's too.
Why is it hey darrin?
Gadfly, what does your post have to do with anything I just said
This op, as well as mine is about fergeson,
"What do you think"
Gadfly, As I have told you in the past, you can exploit any story with your imagination any way you want to make it fit your agenda, but you are no longer dealing with facts
Photo from the facebook page of todays cop killer. The media, and a lot of other people have blood on their hands.
https://www.facebook.com/Thankyounypd/posts/389527784549214
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/suspect-charged-in-shooting-of-ferguson-missouri-police-officers/ar-AA9NB5K?ocid=iehp
Gee I wonder if they'll protest this guys arrest next...
jm62 The black people are the ones who are racist. They take no responsibility for their young peoples actions.
I know that these threads can bring out the bad BUT seriously WTH is going on in Baltimore. I think that some of the community leaders and pastors have been very eloquent and it's a shame that those on the street clearly have no respect for anyone. Tonight's disaster should have been mitigated (if not prevented) - I truly feel bad for any Police Officer working tonight.
Bonv
AS long as we keep tieing the hands of the police it will keep happen ing you see a pic of a bunch of people on a police car smaching burning it pull out the shot gun and shoot their ass wit some buck shot you find people in a store order them on the floor one time if they don't shoot there ass wth some buck shot these pople cut the fire hose shoot there ass I wish it did not have to come to this but we are at the point when its ok to do bad things and the cops are fear full to do any thing
The mayor has no backbone...waited far too long to support police and ask for help.
The police will ( surprised they are not there already ) , be lax in responding ...they are not being supported .
Burning police vehicles and destroying buildings ......declare marshal law, "shoot looter's on site" .. There is no valid reason or circumstance to destroy where you live.
Steven Curfew to start tonight. Why not last night?? They let these "thugs" do whatever they wanted. No backbone is SO right Steven.
A little food for thought.
http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=YjntXYDPw44&sns=em
The streets of every major city are just going to get worse. Pretty soon it'll effect the economy. They cancelled last night Orioles game because of this crap. Pretty soon people will be afraid to even go into NYC to see a game or a show. Enough with this crap... why are people protesting over thugs getting shot and people who resist arrest... If they just cooperated with police these deaths wouldn't have happened. You can't attack a cop and think that there won't be repercussions. If you die because of that, it's your own fault.
So what are you thinking bby2 that every police killing is racially motivated? that's ridiculous.
sucks my Dad was in the Army in '68-'69 and was called down to Baltimore for the riots that year, I was talking to him on the phone last night while we we're watching what was happening and he felt like he was reliving his experience.
.
But a larger percentage were working, or could if they wanted to, in the 60's. Times were different. Justice has is not been very just since then. In the late 50's and early 60's Churches were full. My church moved the whole vestibule and steeple out 40 feet to accommodate the crowds.
Refer to the link I posted above
Maybe Darwin's dad knew Pete Richert, who was an Orioles' pitcher and was called into National Guard riot duty in 68.
Richert also made off-season tours of military hospitals in Vietnam.
Right now, if there is any former Oriole from those days (I was a HS senior in 68) I'd like to get in touch with and talk to, he's the guy.
Well, fortunately the friends and family I have down there are in East Baltimore. Called last night and they are OK. My wife said, "you're not going down there this summer." Already, a negative hit in their attendance and tourism business. Surely there will be many more.
Andy Loigu ALL HOPE IS NOT LOST
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/baltimore-riots-woman-hailed-as-mother-of-the-year-for-marching-home-masked-son-preparing-to-join-unrest-10208573.html
So what did I do just a week after graduation from high school in 68?
Went to Baltimore for a weekend and saw the O's take a pair from the Minnesota Twins, who had a great team in those days. My dad went with me.
Future Mets manager Davey Johnson drove in the winning run in the Sunday game.
Such is the tug of baseball on a young man's heart.
You're right OGent, unemployment was lower in the 60's. Plus, if unemployed, the government gave you a job, about 100,000 mostly poor from 60-65 and then averaging 300K till 69 and the lottery evened the playing field. "Well, come on all of you, big strong men, Uncle Sam needs your help again"
And just, absolutely. We didn't need no stinkin civil rights laws then. Our leaders like John, Bobby, Malcom, and Martin, saw that justice was being done to lead us to the promised land.
Give me a break man.
What these folks are doing is wrong and violence against other humans is inhuman. We have issues today; we had different issues yesterday. But I don't think you can whitewash the 60's and a time of milk and honey versus today. In the case of Baltimore, I don't think there's a chance of anything remotely positive coming out of these senseless acts of violence. And I would gather that many who sit on whatever trial might occur will not be able to forget the violence when it comes time to pass judgment so they better hope for a clear cut case. Clearer than Staten Island. Can you say nullification?
Funny all this outrage about riots we're are all of your posts about what sparked it wears the posts about the guy who had his neck and spinal cord severed while in police custody I must have missed all those posts so I can only assume that police brutality is okay as long as you're doing it to the right person like I always said the police are not your friends what's wrong with them nowadays is that a majority of them are ex-military where you're taught trust no one but your fellow soldier everyone is a potential enemy bring overwhelming force in even the smallest situation and they brought that mentality into America's police force I personally don't blame them for what they are doing after decades of harassment by the police they want to strike out at anyone or anything
I was disagreeing with the link Old Gent posted. We posted at the same time Metsman.
Although I do think 99% of black men shot by white cops, is racially motivated. Yes, the one guy should not have ran, but that does NOT give the cop the right to shoot him in the back 8 times. Take him down by shooting him in the foot. I'm done here because this upsets me too much and I don't need to be aggravated over something I can't do anything about.
"Take him down by shooting him in the foot."
Dumbest. Idea. Ever.
Deadly force is deadly force, whether it's aimed at your foot (good luck hitting THAT moving target) or your back. If deadly force is not justified (or imminent), the firearm should not even leave the holster. Even the presentation of a firearm can be considered deadly force (and you can bet your savings account it *would* be prosecuted as such if you are not a police officer).
I'm back just to say, in the foot more then likely wouldn't have killed the man. 8 in the back does. That was my point. Cop is in jail for murder, right where he belongs. RIH!
Oldred,
I believe the spinal cord injury was a freak accident and nothing more.( what ever the case , does not warrant the actions that are going on.
The news media is so "overly anxious " to sensationalize and exagerate anything to get ratings up. let's look at Brian Williams as a prime example ( one that got caught with his foot in his mouth, now it appears more than a few times )...so why aren't the relentlessly going after him ?
Did you know ? one of the dreaded gangs down there ( in Baltimore , ( I believe they are called "Crypts" ) were going around telling people to "stop destroying your own neighborhood "
Why doesnt' the media follow up on that ?
Let them ask the great reverend Al and his bunch of hipocrites to debate what prompted these actions by these animals ?
Selective reporting has become the norm in our society ..
"force I personally don't blame them for what they are doing after decades of harassment by the police they want to strike out at anyone or anything"
What they are doing is giving the police force vindication for their past actions. Don't want to be treated like criminals, don't act like one. Hard to ask for respect from the police force while you are torching a building. Hopefully the National Guard and police use more force tonight if it starts to get out of hand before these people burn the whole city down.
BBY2 I agree the guy shot in the back was probably racially motivated. But can you say that about the other guy in Ferguson who drew a weapon on a cop? Absolutely not... 99% is a ridiculous statistic. I don't care what color your skin is. If I'm a cop and you point a gun at me, I'm taking you down!
"8 in the back does. That was my point."
My point is if you don't have justification for deadly force you don't shoot *at all*. Someone fleeing is not justification to shoot, except in limited circumstances (fleeing felon or a clear threat to the public), so had the cop shot the man's foot he would (or should) be in jail just the same.
The job description of law enforcement isn't carte blanche to whip out your Glock as a solution to every situation. It's also not Hollywood where Dirty Harry shoots the gun out of a perp's hand or tags them in the foot. Every bullet that misses goes somewhere else - and officers don't always have stellar accuracy (I think NYPD is something like 18%).
Mark, here I agree with you. A foot shot man is full of adrenaline and probably nothing will stop him after that. Cops need to be sure before they shoot, but once they make that decision, I believe the term is "deadly force was authorized."
The most important thing for a cop to do is come home safe. If you're going to shoot, are you going to risk life or potentially your job and pension over your choice of aim?
Plus, given the cop's ability when they too are full of adrenaline, for all we know they have been aiming at the foot.
Steven
the injury was not a freak accident city of Baltimore has paid out over $5 million in the last few years over police misconduct 2 of the biggest payouts were to people who were arrested and given a rough ride as the police call it to the station both sustained life altering injuries while in police custody one I believe lost sight in one of his eyes and the other is paralyzed from the waist down
Is there a possibility that maybe the police are out of control. They think they can do whatever they want to whomever they want whenever they feel like it's my God Andy and Barney must be spinning in their graves
I agree mg, Civil rights laws solved nothing but, sure made a lot of work for lawyers.
There may be a few officers that are bad but it's hardly that the majority of police are out of control (IMO). Sometimes it's about perspective: "Nationwide, law enforcement made an estimated 12,196,959 arrests in 2012. Of these arrests, 521,196 were for violent crimes, and 1,646,212 were for property crimes." Those are the most recent stats found on the FBI website.
Old Red. The police are a para military organization. They line up in the morning, get orders,and go out in the field. Look to the leadership that is supposed to see they do there job. They should recognize when one has a bad attitude and do something about it. Ho! I forgot they are unionized, and so are they, so lets just push it under the rug.
Another reason public employees should not be unionized. The Military has no union.
"The police are a para military organization. "
They *are*... but *shouldn't be*...
Military and law enforcement have two drastically different objectives (hence why even in the military there is a separate police unit).
According to LV Patch, NJ is sending 150 State Troopers to Baltimore. They are also looking for volunteers and donations. Really? Anyone donating?
I guess we have 150 State Troopers we can spare. I wonder what Newark thinks of that. They worked pretty good in Camden.
I knew it. Scroll to the 150 state trooper article and read the comments.
https://www.facebook.com/RLSMetroBreakingNews?fref=nf
Bonv
a few I must be pretty unlucky because of the hundreds that I personally had to deal with I can count on one hand how many good cops there are. If one cop does something wrong and 10 other cops know about it and don't say anything there all bad the blue wall of silence makes all cops bad
WBAL-TV 11 Baltimore
5 hrs ·
THANK YOU #RAVENS for feeding our hungry newsroom of journalists as we continue to provide coverage on the events in Baltimore.
They sent a table full of Pizza's to the news room.
The shooting that took place in North Charleston, SC is very close to my husband's job. Yes the cop was 100% wrong for shooting him 8 times in the back. BUT the people protesting down here were causing so much problems for general public to get around because they were block all the roads and the office was immediately arrested. The funeral was in my town and literally roads were shut down. I'm just grateful that people in the Charleston area didn't riot or cause physical harm to anyone down here.
Mommyof3 Just look at the Linden NJ Police. They had a full blown alcoholic in there organization for 8 years.
This is what happens when you give people free money and stuff and don't make them work for it. Send in " Reno 911 " ...
The police never do anything wrong. Unless, of course, they are caught on video doing something blatantly wrong..... And even then it's debatable.
The Pat Moynihan Report of 1965- not exactly a Conservative - a Liberal Socialist Senator from NY concluded - Welfare don't work!
"Moynihan generally concluded in the report: "The steady expansion of welfare programs can be taken as a measure of the steady disintegration of the Negro family structure over the past generation in the United States".[5]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Negro_Family:_The_Case_For_National_Action
RU: Not sure how we got here from Furgy but what the heck. Obviously welfare works and welfare does not work. It can help but it has issues.
However Moynihan didn't conclude "welfare don't work" in his report and I don't think that's even a direct verbatim quote from the report. It's a mash up of quote and non-quote and I don't believe it even means what you think it does. It does not say "welfare don't work." And it most certainly is not the conclusion of the report, not even close. That's just the conclusion of some free market zealot journalist from Capitalism magazine, another misleading puff piece of yellow journalism.
I will let you read the conclusions from the report, chapter 5: http://www.blackpast.org/primary/moynihan-report-1965 and dare you to use the report to back your opinion, which may be valid, but certainly can't be proved by Pat's report.
Here's some actual quotes, including the correct version of yours, from the report when you search on welfare:
"The Breakdown of the Negro Family Has Led to a Startling Increase in Welfare Dependency. " Hint on report findings: sounds like it's the family breakdown as the root cause.
Your quote: "A 1960 study of Aid to Dependent Children in Cook County, Ill. stated:
"The 'typical' ADC mother in Cook County was married and had children by her husband, who deserted; his whereabouts are unknown, and he does not contribute to the support of his children. She is not free to remarry and has had an illegitimate child since her husband left. (Almost 90 percent of the ADC families are Negro.)
The steady expansion of this welfare program, as of public assistance programs in general, can be taken as a measure of the steady disintegration of the Negro family structure over the past generation in the United States." Hmm, sounds like your quote really means that the usage of welfare IS the measure of the family breakdown, not the cause. It certainly does not say "welfare don't work." Just saying.
"The critical element of adjustment was not welfare payments, but work. " Hmmm, that's closer but who wouldn't agree that work is better than welfare in general.
"Almost without exception, the social welfare and social insurance systems of other industrial democracies provide for some adjustment or supplement of a worker's income to provide for the extra expenses of those with families"
"Second, it is our view that the problem is so inter-related, one thing with another, that any list of program proposals would necessarily be incomplete, and would distract attention from the main point of inter-relatedness. We have shown a clear relation between male employment, for example, and the number of welfare dependent children. Employment in turn reflects educational achievement, which depends in large part on family stability, which reflects employment. Where we should break into this cycle, and how, are the most difficult domestic questions facing the United States. We must first reach agreement on what the problem is, then we will know what questions must be answered." Hmmm, not sure I heard "welfare don' work in that one. Sounds like looking for wider welfare benefits for families....."
So good news Harlem, Watts & Detroit are Liberal Grand Society success stories - gimme a freakin break!
Paying people to do nothing & have kids out of wedlock works - will see this weekend...
Gee... this kid wasn't black and he got shot. Bet you won't see white people protesting....
http://www.fox8live.com/story/28931107/mother-19-year-old-shot-4-times-by-deputies-during-welfare-check
why would we protest that? you point a guy a cops i don't care what color you are, chances are you are going to get shot.
Supposedly the gun was at his side, they didn't identify themselves, and it was 2:30AM at his own home. And that didn't stop people from protesting when the black guy at the gas station outside Ferguson raised a gun to a cop. There was video footage showing it. Stupid people still protested because any time a black person dies it's automatically race related. I'm tired of listening to this crap...
"Matthew's mother says her son did not know who was in the front yard, and no one identified themselves when they knocked on the door, and that is why he was holding the shotgun."
criminals usually don't knock on your door before they break in. Her story sounds fishy at best.
"And that didn't stop people from protesting when the black guy at the gas station outside Ferguson raised a gun to a cop. There was video footage showing it."
that happend like 2-3 days after the Michael Brown incident when they were already protesting. i think if the Michael Brown incident didn't happen this wouldn't have caused a protest on its own.
Michael Brown was a punk who attacked a cop. I have no remorse for him. The evidence shows he was in the wrong not the other way around.
OK RU, since you are so focused on facts, let's do Ferguson and poverty.
First, Ferguson is 65% black, 30% white, so predominately black but a mixed community.
% of folks in poverty, 22%. US average is 15%
7% for whites, 20% for blacks.
Avg family size for those in poverty: 2.6; 75% are single mother homes. Family size pretty close to average although single mother is much higher.
In Ferguson, not quite the picture RU paints. Yes it is poorer, it is predominately black, but 60% of Ferguson owns their own homes. It is a suburb in the midst of white flight with newcomers escaping, or trying to, inner city problems.
Ferguson is not dead poor. Average income about $35K still lower than national $50K but their are poorer places, a number in Missouri alone. Part of the town boasts good-sized homes and average incomes. Part of the town is very poor and crime ridden.
For lower income and younger people, many of Fergeson's problems are the same. Low-skilled manufacturing moving out, minimum-wage jobs don't offer full time, the same problems that infect the rest of America.
But it's not a town of "do nothing & have kids out of wedlock." Those simplistic generalizations just make it easy for haters to hate.
I was wondering how long it was going to take before unnamed police sources said that. The Man injured himself in the Van according to the police the second prisoner in the Van said he heard the man pounding his head against the wall of the Van the only problem with that scenario is the second prisoner was only in the Van the last 5 min. of the 40 min. ride and there is a video of the police putting leg irons on the first prisoner. Who you can clearly see is unresponsive
He was not unresponsive when he got in the van. You can clearly see him standing on the bumper on his own right before he got in.
Watch the video again old man
Darwin
You have no clue must be a fox news viewer I am not talking about the video of his initial arrest video where he's being put in to the Van I'm talking about the video that of course Fox news probably didn't show I am talking about the video when the Van stopped in the middle of the street and they put leg irons on him
ha so not a fox viewer
if you can make out anything in that video of the stop you are a better person than me. its so shaky, out of focus i can't tell what i'm looking at.
I'm not doing any social commentary on social media ... I'd rather write a letter to a congressman that I sign with my real name.
I'll say this, though, as someone who has considered Baltimore my second home since my early teens.
One of my high school coaches (he also was the best math teacher I ever had) played football at Morgan State and I loved "talking Balmer" with him. When I told him how excitedly I was awaiting my 18th birthday, so I could drive there on my own without my parents with me, he warned me ... "don't ever go near North Avenue. It's Baltimore's Camden, Baltimore's Watts, Baltimore's South Bronx."
Camden Yards was still 25 years from being built, he was referring to that Camden that sits on the other side of Philadelphia. I spent a lot of time in college asking professors how such neighborhoods came to exist. Four decades later, nothing has changed and the conservatives blame the liberals and vice versa. It just goes on and on.
Andy, something has changed. Since the Great Recession, poverty levels have risen. Ferguson went from being on the edge, a place to escape the worst neighborhoods of the inner city, to having areas that look like those bad places.
I am sure the same has happened in Baltimore, Camden, where ever. Until our slow growth come back actually trickles down to these folks, they are last in line and the brunt of the downturn can put many on the edge, over.
It's happened before, but this in longer and deeper.
Pray for an economic upswing and a cool summer.
"Camden Yards was still 25 years from being built, he was referring to that Camden that sits on the other side of Philadelphia. I spent a lot of time in college asking professors how such neighborhoods came to exist. Four decades later, nothing has changed and the conservatives blame the liberals and vice versa. It just goes on and on."
yep, let's import even more foreign workers so the folks living there can never find full time employment anywhere, that'll fix things real good
baltimore, 50 years of liberal democrat control and policies, and this is the result, who you gonna blame now? the returned veterans who are becoming cops? (yep, that's part of the narrative being repeated as "the new normal" on ms-nbc, cnn, npr and other ultra wacko 'news' outlets) gimme a break already with this nonsense.
Spiro Agnew was the governor of Maryland when the 68 riots took place, but moving on from that, ever see the movie 'Hairspray?' ... it was a corny musical (it even had a character named Corny Collins) but it dealt with the institutional segregation and racism of 1962 Baltimore (and lots of other places). All in all, it was pretty good ... worth watching again, especially now.
Here's a poignant clip from the movie ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-2He8cNHdw
Oh give me a break from the simplistic rhetoric of the right.
The reporter who mistakenly targeted vet police apologized for her stupid comments.
What's in your rhetoric wallet?
The current governor of Maryland is Larry Hogan, Republican (obviously the suburban vote) ... but we've got to get beyond POLITICS (which is poopadoodle) to start finding solutions to these problems.
Uh, Maryland, the state, is 56% Dem, 26% Repub and 17% who cares... You can bet Larry Hogan acted like one liberal Republican.
Both previous democratic gov's had falling poll numbers at term's end with OMalley raising taxes and other fun stuff. He is an unmitigated liberal, fiscally and social policy-wise.
While Hogan ran being a fiscal conservative and social moderate, policies have been hard line. Look for a single term.
Baltimore is a great place with many great areas. Renown for it's ethnic neighborhoods which grew during the immigration years since Baltimore was a major first stop. Ethnicity has caused violence before like the anti-Catholic riots.
Today, Baltimore faces the same issues as many cities, affluent whites fleeing the city, new immigrants moving in, but a shrinking population.
Baltimore is not Camden or Detroit. While many whites have left the city with a shrinking population and a 65%/35% black/white demographic, there are many ethnicities and entire ethnic communities too. There are new immigrations too like those from China and Latin America too although Latino's percentage in Baltimore is lower than most cities.
What I love most about Baltimore is access and The Inner Harbor. Just shoot over the Harrisburg, drop down on 83, and get to the Inner Harbor with less than a handful of lights. Enjoy the delights of the Inner Harbor, take in a afternoon game (if they allow spectators again.....) Then try to figure out which ethnicity I want to sample for dinner! Can't do that in Camden.
gimme a break with the simplistic dismissals all the time;
baltimore represents a full half century of complete failure of liberalism in action, and continues to slide downhill year after year, good job dems!
besides you got that one wrong, it's not just one reporter mis-speaking, (btw, she really believes it, it's in her heart, that's why she said it out loud, she's not sorry), this 'new normal' narrative of blame the returned vets is all over the air waves, NPR, CNN, MS-NBC, NBC, CBS; they all have had commentary picking up on this theme, promoting anything, no matter how far-fetched it is, to distract attention from decades of failed liberal policies in baltimore.
and the republicans are no hero's either, the established monarchy of the party (the bush regime) is advocating for more and more cheap foreign labor coming in for ALL job categories, including H1B visa holder guest workers to replace IBM, Microsoft, HP and many other high tech company jobs requiring computer science degrees for half the salary, and these american workers are being forced to train their replacements while they are being laid off from work, and these big firms justify this reprehensible behavior by saying to the feds, "We can't find qualified tech workers". Really? then why are you having your laid off staff training them? it's because you can't find workers who are earing 80 - 100 k per year who would do the same job for 30 - 50 k, is that what constitutes responsible management? really?
i'm begging you guys, wake up and smell the coffee . . . . .
baltimore is crumbling away under the failed polices of both parties, 50 years of liberal policies that just don't work, and conservative polices of off-shoring , outsourcing good paying jobs at indentured servitude rates, and america grows less stable and weaker as a direct result. thanks to our entrenched pols on both sides of the aisle,
maybe with less foreign labor being given a free pass more of the inner city kids could find jobs and have less time to roam the streets looking for something to do. ya think?
go ahead, knee jerk that one . . . . . . .(take off those lib glasses first though)
Here's my knee jerk.
Got any actual facts; you know, those things with numbers attached?
And what other news reports that weren't just reporting on her report and how do you know she really believes it even though she apologized which you says does not count?
good one, quite a jerk, not far off from what i expected, you really need to read more, you know, broaden your horizons a bit, you're focused just on her while missing the emerging narrative, i listed several other sources go check them out, and post back. it's true, really . . . .
and to the larger issue, strangely silent oh dismissive one . . . . .
baltimore is crumbling away under the failed polices of both parties, 50 years of liberal policies that just don't work, and conservative polices of off-shoring , outsourcing good paying jobs at indentured servitude rates, and america grows less stable and weaker as a direct result. thanks to our entrenched pols on both sides of the aisle,
You pretty much nailed the failures of both parties there, brother dog.
Also, when inner city schools are allowed to be sub standard ... what can you expect?
More simplistic rhetoric without facts blaming everyone at once without any supporting facts. Repetition does not make it factual.
And asking me to do your work to show you the facts seems a bit harsh. But I did it and you look to be all wrong. All I can find is the original CNN piece; the CNN apology (which you won't accept because you know the truth and have never said something you had to take back) and a bunch of rags, mostly right-wing knee-jerk journalistic wannabees but MSN too, reporting on the original report and subsequent apology.
""I made a mistake yesterday. I was recounting a story, a conversation I had with someone recently ... and I absolutely misspoke." Baldwin
Yeah, that's gotta be a lie. Do you probably accept Bud Light's mea culpa.
So step up to the line and show us those other stories that independently report about a vet/cop problem rather than just re-reporting on the Baldwin unfortunate expression.
Show us your work with some real facts to back it up. Remember, if you can't find em, you can't take it back. It's the way of the Dog.
wow! total jo strawman, never said what you said i said, so time for you to rethink your meme and your mo
you complete yourself with your own happy ending giving self flagellation a whole new context
nice!
rachel maddow for one, you for another, and huffingpost for another, theres more, ms-nbc, cnn, npr for more, its not just the shallow bigoted brooke baldwin, who you probably got the hots for, but careful there, shes younger than your daughter, so dont creep us out
step up to the line yourself, mr, glibbbbbbbeerrrrrrallll
""I made a mistake yesterday. I was recounting a story, a conversation I had with someone recently ... and I absolutely misspoke." Baldwin
weasel words from a weasel reporter, she said the truth of how she feels about the vets and was shocked at the reaction, and with the looming possibility of losing her job she cries crocodile tears the next day, not buying it, at all
she's not honest and not credible and the the resident hl jokester here bought her drivel hook line and sinker, simplistically naive of him to believe everything the lib says (since he is one) and dismiss everything anyone else says, like he gets to decide right and wrong for the world at large, (lame)
the liberal press outlets overall say one thing but do another, "we support the vets", but they don t really mean it, its just words, then they go out and denigrate them, "they shouldnt be police" "they cant be trusted" , "they are prone to violence" , hypocrites, the whole lot of them
You most certainly have the right not to believe Baldwin; there is definitely some weaseling going on. It is your opinion and that's fair. But she did apologize immediately rather than defend or deflect. That's your style.
You still can't find any articles to support your earlier statement which puts you in the same place with Baldwin except without your apology. Yet you continue to defend. You continue to deflect by listing liberal news outlets and unleashing a stream of rudeness.
You provided a lame listing of news outlets you claim have articles but you don't post the articles. You did not step up, you deflected and you still don't have any facts supporting your allegation.
Then you complete your posts with some weak invectives about me, my lust, and even some sexual innuendo's about my daughter. Not to mention the most rude: "you complete yourself with your own happy ending giving self flagellation a whole new context" which doesn't even make sense.
I am glad you have learned what simplistic means and how to use it in the your next 20 tomes.
oh dismissive one; im so glad that you're glad, mr gliberal ; rude? have you ever read your own posts? lol at that one; you continue to misread what's there, and then respond to your own misunderstanding in your usual passive aggressive style of what you just misread, that's really lame even for a simpleton like you, simplistic is as simplistic does i guess,
not sure why you cant comprehend whats there, you are not honest, and i think you know that already about yourself.
its just not that big a deal to me showing you the errors of your ways, you have proven yourself unreceptive over the years to any push back, it was a mistake on my part to engage with you at all. i had a weak moment here lowering myself to your bottom of the barrel level, not a good thing for me to do. and you showed us all that you cant take what you dish out, you just cant handle being treated the same way you treat others,
so go ahead and slap me back, you know you want to and you know you won't be able to control yourself, so have at it mr glib, i'm pulling myself up and out of your bottom based passive aggressive barrel. (hope for the last time, i need to avoid another weak moment engaging with you)
Give me a break. In this thread.....
You're the one who can't back up his allegations.
You're the one who blasts a journalist who apologizes when she can't back up her allegations.
You're the one using name calling and out-n-out rudeness and slander to bully others.
So to dredge up some history alluding to my bad reputation as defense for what you are doing here, well if that what floats your boat, have at it.
You still didn't support your, what now appears to be fabricated, allegation except to get all defensive and obnoxious by calling names. Very rude.
http://www.weaselzippers.us/224034-more-proof-of-paid-protesters-ad-asking-for-protesters-to-travel-to-protest-list-of-payouts-to-ferguson-protest-organizers/
Paid protesters ?!?
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jan/14/george-soros-funds-ferguson-protests-hopes-to-spur/?page=all
Whats your take on this MG? BS or not
If giving money to non-profits who then in turn "embolden" people to protest equals "soros funds Ferguson protests" then I guess we're all going to hell.
What is "embolden people to protest" anyway? Not eve talking someone into it. Has protest been deemed bad in America? Or only when the WashingtonTimes can loosely link funding to Ferguson where illegal acts occurred? Were all those groups in Ferguson on the Soros dime? If so, did they do anything wrong except protest? Or is Soros guilty by association in a protest where others acted illegally that he may or may not have funded?
What the author said was Soros known to fund nonprofits who advocate on issues in Ferguson and these organizations may have been involved in protests although we don't know whether Soros funds were used and we don't know if the organization's people were involved in illegal acts. Now there's a story.
Or we can do a excite-rewrite. Like if Skippy gave $10 to the Red Cross. Boring. Wait, the Red Cross operates in the Middle East. Now we can say, if you give to the Red Cross, you are guilty by association since they operate in Iran, Iraq, Libya, and Syria where Muslims are found. Radical Islam is Muslim. Somewhere along the line they must have helped an extremist, extremist to be or the mother-to-be of a future extremist.
So Skippy, with my excite-rewrite, you get a headline: DATELINE 2016: Hackettstown. Mistergoogle of the WorsingtonTomes reported that:
SKIPPY FUNDS MUSLIM EXTREMEISTS KILLING US WORKERS
In 2011, Skippy gave $10 to the Red Cross for milk for pregnant mothers in Syria. We uncovered a well known fact that all Syrian radical Muslim extremists have mothers...... Today, the $10 would be worth $50,000 if the radicals had invested in black market oil production funneled illegally through the Turkish borders. Skippy's support of the lucrative black market has caused US oil prices to tumble killing US workers jobs and throwing thousands of Montana oil workers out on the street.
I could get closer to a direct match for donations-for-illegal-acts if I looked at the Koch bro's donations especially where they have been buying elections.
But wait, there's more, smoking guns from the story:
"There’s a solitary man at the financial center of the Ferguson protest movement." OK, I don't even need to research to know this is a lie. How could they know who is at the financial center and that he's alone.
"Mr. Soros spurred the Ferguson protest movement through years of funding and mobilizing groups across the U.S.," Like most of the story, lots of allegations and generalizations backed up by a sprinkling of facts like:
"Colorlines is an online news site that focuses on race issues and is published by Race Forward, a group that received $200,000 from Mr. Soros’s foundation in 2011"
Well, you gotta give em credit for being thrifty and wise to be able to forsee Ferguson and save the cash all the way from 2011. You have to ask yourself, why is one of the only smoking guns the journalist finds all the way from 2011? Where's 2012-2015?
"Mr. Soros gave $5.4 million to Ferguson and Staten Island grass-roots efforts last year to help “further police reform, accountability and public transparency,” the Open Society Foundations said in a blog post in December." OK, this sounds ominous. I mean I can just smell the Molotov cocktails brewing.
"Mr. Soros‘ two largest foundations manage almost $3 billion in assets per year, according to their most recent respective tax returns......
In comparison, David and Charles Koch, the billionaire brothers whom liberals often call a threat to democracy — and worse — for their conservative influence, had $308 million tied up in their foundation and institute in 2011."
Not only off the topic, but this is apples n oranges accounting. First they list the assets of the Soro's foundations, the entire assets based on everyone's contributions. Then they list the assets that Koch themselves have tied up in their foundation and institute. Oh, yeah, the Kochs have four personal foundations and many more they don't own but they fund.
So point is there may be a point here but allegations without substantiation are just rumors. And when the facts are either loose, dated, or incomparable financial terms, there may be truth here, they're might be smoke but it certainly is not from this story. Barely smoke and certainly no fire. But the Soros name is always news.
lol - MG thank you for researching that and giving me your opinion - I value it - hence why I asked for it
It was fun Skippy, glad you like it. The article was a good idea, probably is heading in the right direction, but lacked the factual teeth to give it bite.
Frankly both the Soros and Koch manipulation of the system speaks to how America is for sale. And how we have let ourselves be open for business is the problem, not Soros or Koch Their spider web of charitable funding trickles down to what we know, how we think, and who we vote for, but it's how we have created the system that let's them that's the problem. On top of that manipulation, SCOTUS decisions for unlimited corporate funding, superpac freedoms of attack without rebuttal, and the shady world of 501c politicking, all have turned our system to one big money machine telling us what to do. And it's hard to tell what's a real idea from what someone is telling us to do.
Here's one on the superpacs, note it's from motherjones so just add a few liberal names to balance out the Adleson jab since this liberal author forgot to. Superpacs are the pooled big money end of the spectrum; the organizations creating misleading lies and attack ads. Since they are divorced from the politician, they become their foul mouthpieces for things like swiftboat or how Mitt was demolished. Any manure a politician wants to spread can just be funneled to a superpac allowing the politician to escape blame. http://www.juancole.com/2012/08/your-election-is-being-bought-by-47-billionaires-and-they-are-buying-war-climate-change.html
Meanwhile, the SCOTUS decisions driven by conservatives of all people have increased the big money power by squashing most limits on contributions including virtually unlimited corporate backing: http://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/pro-money-supreme-court
But the 501c's are the real shadow organizations, supposedly non-political and impossible to trace where the money is coming from. There is little enforcement and it's very hard to catch a 501c being political. Frankly, we just don't have the manpower or desire to spend taxpayer money to catch these guys. You have to dig around on the links here to see how bad this really is: https://www.opensecrets.org/outsidespending/nonprof_summ.php
So even though the article proved little, the fact that Soros and Koch are telling us what to think is real, we just don't know exactly what that is. The good news is at least they're Americans. It does not take much imagination to consider a smart country with a lot of money doing far worse. Imagine you are Japan. You open up some US companies, Honda of America, who then start funding their "owned" thought machine superpacs or 501c's. Maybe you get your US born billionaire CEO you own to funnel a bit more and if you use 501c's, no one will be the wiser. To me, that's the big mistake in all this. We have basically opened the doors for foreign interests to legally tell us what to think at a grass-roots US-originated level via what essentially is foreign funding. And no one will ever prove it.
We need to reign in superpacs, make them accountable for their actions or just end them. We need to enforce the non-political rules for 501c's and punish offenders. Otherwise we leave our minds open to manipulation from many sources, domestic and foreign. That is doable. But the SCOTUS decisions allowing unlimited amounts of big money to be deployed will be very, very difficult to overturn ---- that's the real criminal act that took place and the SCOTUS is the culprit. Soros and Koch are just the effect of their decisions.
I completely agree with her rant.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3208040/Black-mom-viral-star-rant-Black-Lives-Matter-protesters-rallying-death-thugs-criminals-instead-black-black-crime.html#video
Well see how many people disagree, but I am with you Bonv, about time someone has the courage to stand up and speak the truth. The unfortunate part is if it was a Caucasian person saying this, they would be dismissed and labeled as a racist.....so unfortunate that scapegoats need to be used to avoid the truth.
strangerdanger You are very correct MG, but her point was that why was one more important then the other?
I bet all the animals in Ferguson are cheering about the shooting of the reporter and cameraman in Virginia...
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