Propane Gas Prices

Live in North Florida, 1350 sq. ft., have Suburban Propane. Hot water heater, stove, forced air furnace all use gas. Today's bill came in at 3.79/gallon for the month; so did last month's bill. They read the meter, fill up the tank as necessary, no extra fees other than taxes. No charge for delivery, no tank rental. Some have mentioned Suburban's "attitude". The folks down here (Tallahassee) are polite and professional.

I remember less-than
Nov '08

I just got SUburban to make a delivery next week. they were going to charge 3.29/gallon. I asked "why, if the prices have dropped like a rock, are you still so high??" SHe said, I'll lock you in at 2.89.

WTF???????????

BT Resident
Nov '08

something is not right with bessie1's company and if you need me to I will call and complaint. They cant price gouge you like that. Its a utility and they are laws to protect you.

Justasking

PearlieAnn - I prebuy a lot of propane, so I don't know if there is a minimum. As far as dealing with Eastern, continue to demand lower prices. I've called them many times to complain about pricing and would not take no for an answer. Eventually (but you have to be persistent) you can get a lower price. I've also had all tank fees waived (for about the last 7 years). Dealing with propane dealers is almost like being at a flea market - they set a high price and some people just pay full price; others will try to get it as low as possible (and some are better "hagglers" than others).

It's a damn shame the propane companies do business like this. And worse yet, they are not regulated by the NJ Board of Public Utilities.

FarmerJake
Nov '08

I need 200-400 gals per year to heat a one bedroom cottage in mt arlington. Have amerigas 100 gal tanks (2) at about $90/yr total. They just called (2 or 3 weeks ago now) and offered to fill at 2.79 per gal. I guess that is not a bad price for previous messages.
I go to http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pri_wfr_dcus_snj_w.htm
just to watch prices. do not know how useful the info is.

ss in mta
Nov '08

I received a call lat night (11/18/08) from my supplier, Suburban, to offer me a special since I haven't filled my 1000 gal tank in a year. She offered a $2.199/gal special price, versus the "today's" rate of $3.149/gal.

I would only fill to their minimum of 400 gallons, but I'm wondering if I should hold out since the energy prices keep falling.

Anyone's thoughts?

Port Murray, NJ

Maybe someone can explain this to me. Why do I have to rent the stinking propane tank, and then pay the same company to fill the darn thing. If I am paying a rental fee why can't I have someone else put gas in it? This is something that has been bugging me since I paid them the $100 rental fee last march. I like to have choices even if I do get the best rate from them. I paid 2.50 a gallon last time I got propane from syrnegy gas in parsipanny. I am suppose to be getting a better rate because my landlord negotiated the rate for all the tenants. This was back in oct. They are do to come out in dec agian and I hope the rate is a little better.

mommyoftwo
Nov '08

Can "mommyoftwo" tell me what company gave them the price of $2.50 in Parsippany? we are in Rockaway, and haven't gotten Precision below $282.9. we get our 500 gal tank filled every month w/ 300 - 400 gals each time. This pricing crap is such a scam. We too have a tank that is owned by the propane company.
VR

VR...

300 to 400 per month???

I just filled after just shy of 3 and a half months 263 gallons @289/9 with Suburban.

What is "normal usage"????

BT Resident
Nov '08

El, I'd go with it if I were you. They told me that that is an "introductory" offer, not their regular price... for now. I'm guessing it will lower but not to that any time soon.

BT Resident
Nov '08

Check out Heco Gas...I just paid $2.79 gal...Of course, we own our
TANK!!!!

Just Wondering4
Nov '08

Our contract last year w/Modern Gas company in South Jersey was $1.99/gallon prepaid for 1,500 gallons or $2,985. Our latest contract is locked in @ $2.99/gallon (a 50% increase over last year)prepaid for $4,485. If prices go lower we're stuck at paying $2.99/gallon. My biggest problem is securing market rate info from local suppliers; you cannot get a straight answer! I am contacting our local natural gas company asking once again that they extend service to our development. I can't wait to tell Modern Gas where they can place their "contracts."

cppat

To All,

I'm so glad I found this discussion group. I have had a long running battle with Suburban. I live in Hunterdon County in Raritan Township (Flemington Area). We have a 1000 gal. buried tank. Last year when Suburban attempted to charge me $4.819/gallon I went through the roof and took action by not only calling Suburban to complain but threatening a writing campaign to state officials. Suburban offered to lower the price to a level still above market rates as determined by www.eia.doe.gov. After more yelling and threatening they gave me a price of $3.489 which was about market rate at the time. They still charged me that rate for my October 08 delivery.

I did still write to my Assemblypeople (Doherty and Karrow) and then State Senator Lance.

After a run-around of non-responses from the NJ BPU and the Attorney General, the NJ Department of Community Affairs (DCA) responded with a cogent letter. Net-net - there is in process a LP Gas Regulations Consumer Rights bill s-l-o-w-l-y going through the state legislature. See http://www.state.nj.us/dca/codes/ruleproposals/c_bor.pdf

The bill seems to support more transparency in what propane companies charge.

I'm sending an email to the DCA to find out where this bill stands. I'll let everyone know the response. I suggest everyone do the same by sending an email to Michael L Ticktin Esq. DCA mticktin@dca.state.nj.us

You know what they say about the squeaky wheel....

Steaming in Hunterdo

I'm glad I found this forum! I'm running an unvented wall heater and will install another soon to keep warm thru the winter. My neighbor has had this setup for a couple of years and loves it. I have sent inquiries to my assemblywoman, Alison McHose, and will see what she has to say about the consumer bill. I'm running the house's heat off a 40 pound tank! I'm trying to upgrade, but money's tight and I don't have the multiple thousands to throw at a large rental tank and a propane fill right now.

PaulDFixr

McHose... what a great name for a politician, lol...

ianimal

Just wanted to correct something I wrote on 10/17. My monthly bill is $375, not $350.

N & A

Does propane fall under the BPU??

BT Resident
Dec '08

No, propane companies don't fall under the purview of the BPU.

They are more similar to a heating oil company than a public utility that pipe things to or from your house.

ianimal

Well to my surprise Suburban made a propane delivery today and charged me $3.449/gal which is $.255 above the NJ market average for 12/1/08. This is typical for Suburban. I'm calling them tomorrow to 1) see if I can get a better price and 2) see what they will charge me for me to buy my tank.

What prices are people getting in early December from Suburban or other suppliers?

Has anyone ever gotten a quote on buying a buried tank?

Steaming in Hunterdo

Suburban continues to amaze me and that our state allows companies to operate like this is - well - it's NJ.

I called Suburban to complain about the $3.449/gal price on the recent delivery. They quickly said that they would reduce the price to $3.049 and give me a credit to that price on the first delivery which was $3.489. THEN - I asked how much to by the tank? They said that would have to come from the corporate office and they asked why do I want to own the tank - I said - gas buying options. They then came back with we can do $2.899 for all deliveries this season through June 09. I hate the way these companies do business and this just screams for state regulations.

I'm still getting the tank cost pricing.

Steaming in Hunterdo

question to steaming in Hunterdon

How many gallons do you use each heating season? I live in Bloomingdale which is in northern part pf Passaic County. When I called suburban they said I use around 750 annually and that my price quote today12/12/2008 was 3.83. outrageous. I also have a 500 gallon underground tank which is owned by Suburban. I asked what cost would be to buy? They said it can't be done and I asked to speak with area manager. still awaiting call back.

Buzz
Dec '08

Does Suburban have to answer to the BPU???

BT Resident
Dec '08

Sorry, ian, didn't read above before posting again. Thanks.

BT Resident
Dec '08

We were running low on propane early this week. So we called our supplier Farrel Gas and asked for delivery. They told us they would delivery in 1-5 days. We only live 8 miles from our supplier Thurs we called again and they told us we were on schedule for Fri delivery. Fri came and of course by now we were out of gas. We called them several times on Fri and they said they were on the way. They did not show so now it is Sat and the weekend charge for delivery is +$175 for a 24 gal tank @ $3.69 gal. Our contact at the local office told us that we would NOT have to pay the weekend charge, but for some reason I t\don't trust her.

Hillsborough res
Dec '08

Buzz,

We use about 1500 gal/year.

Still $3.83 is way out of line.

I have a question to them about buying my tank also. They said that is handled by the corporate office. They put in the request. Keep pestering them. That is what I'm doing

Steaming in Hunterdo

Be careful on purchasing an in ground tank. Sometimes it is better to rent because then the company is responsible. In the future you should get an above ground tank.

michele
Dec '08

I'm new to this propane business,I had always had oil or south jersey gas.This is insane,I read the propaganda put out by the propane companies on "why use propane" how clean and good it is.Have the propane companies noticed that gas for our cars is less than half it was 6 months ago! Just paid $1.45 a gallon to fill my car!they should be required to post their prices on the internet and fill any tank as long as it certified safe!WHAT A RACKET!

LEE
Dec '08

Does anyone have an answer to the problem with having a 1000 gal tank in the ground and being forced to use Amerigas? Do I have to dig it up? Can I buy it? Can I use a 500 gal above ground and not use their Tank ??? I'm sick of their super high prices and their BAD Attitude. Consumer Protection needs to step in to this problem. Richard

Richard S.

Has anyone besides Hillsborough res had experience with Ferrell Gas?

They seem to have flexible plans. You can buy or lease a 120 gal tank. Purchase is $180 refurbished, or $699.30 new. The lease is $12 per year refurbished. They charge less per gal if you own your tank (I didn't ask why). If leased, they will waive the first year lease fee. Installation is at $119.99/hour. They say it typically does not take more than an hour.

There is a 1,000 gallon contract plan for $2.20. Another plan offers a first fill for $2.299. There is a capped plan at $3.349. There is a per delivery fee of $11.98.

I am in Middlesex County. I have been with Suburban for 21 years. I am a light user, 800 square foot house, heat and cooking, about 500 gallons annually. Suburban billed in Oct. at $4.879. Since oil and gas have came down, I expected a reduction. They filled today 12/18 at the same price. I called and they offered to reduce $.40, even though I didn't qualify due to low usage. (Ferrell doesn't seem to be concerned about quantity of use, as Suburban argues to keep the price higher.) I said it was not enough. They made it $.80, or $4.0879. They have in the past denied that they offer a lock-in rate, and never offered a prepayment plan, although based on what others say here, these alternatives apparently exist. Based on Steaming in Huntingdon and others, I am going to ask for a further reduction. Regardless, I am looking for an alternative. Hence Ferrell.

Thanks to all for posting.

George
Dec '08

I use propane for hot water & cooking. I was a 6-1/2 year loyal customer of Burnwell. I never questioned my bill. They owned the tank.
Last winter I got a bill from them for 5.92 per gallon. I called Yankee and found out that they were more that $2.00 less per gallon. I complained to Burnwell & they lowered my price. But I decided to switch, and recently I went with Yankee, who had promised (last year) 3.79 per gallon for a year. They began with me in September.
They just delivered (50 gal this delivery) for the 3rd time last week, & they now sent me a bill at 3.79 per. Hey! With energy prices way down, why would they not send me a bill for a lower price?!!

FreddieG

Propane prices do not seem to be dropping as fast as gasoline prices. One reason may be the supply of propane. The stocks of propane nation-wide seem to be at the low range of the historical envelope. See http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/hopu/hopu.asp

I've also noticed that the best price per gallon I've heard for propane is usually close to the price per gal of diesel fuel. The best I've seen at diesel pumps is around $2.49. Getting that price for propane would be a great deal at the moment.

Keep asking for lower prices from the suppliers, however getting less than 100 gals really does not give you much price leverage.

Steaming in Hunterdo

I had a gas delivery man come to my home from Suburban Propane and opened my driveway gate which has a no trespassing sign posted on it. My property is fenced with 6 foot stockage fence and no one is supposed to be here unless I am home. The delivery man then proceeded to enter without calling ahead and without my my permission. I have a missing Cocker Spaniel puppy that was 3 weeks old at the time; chocolate with tan points and white feet that dissappeared. This puppy was with it's mother and siblings. I called the office and was never given the man's name but told the delivery guy would call me back. I'm still holding my breath!

Thanks to Steaming in Hunterdon for the reference to http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/hopu/hopu.asp. I found spreadsheet downloads that showed the average price per gal in NJ had declined to $3.091 for the week of 12/15. I quoted Suburban the information, as well as offerings from Ferrell Gas. I use about 400 gal annually, and had to overcome a volume argument. I said volume should not matter, since all that meant was that they delivered less frequently. Also, I should not be penalized for conserving energy by keeping my thermostat at 60 degrees. I have a feeling this was not as important as pointing out that Ferrell Gas apparetly does not have a different rate based on volume. Finally, I was offered $2.879. This is a further reduction from $4.079, after an $.80 reduction from $4.879. I thought that was forthcoming and reasonable.

Bottom line--call competitors and look for a better deal and be prepared to switch if the supplier won't compete. After all, propane is a commodity. Certainly when the price of propane goes up, we expect prices to go up. The problem is, when prices come down, we have to call to get a fair price. These companies should be forced by the market to compete based on good customer service. That is our job as informed consumers.

Again, thanks to all for posting.

George
Dec '08

Just received a delivery from my friendly Suburban Propane company in Newton. The price was $2.999 a gallon. I don't get it. I was paying about $2.50 last heating season when the price of gasoline was pushing $3 a gallon. Now the price of gas is half that and propane is still above $3. What really ticks me off is the fact that I purposely did not lock-in my price for the 2009 heating season. The lock-in price quoted in September was about $3.50 a gallon. I felt that the price of fuel was going to come down, so I decided to take my chances and buy my deliveries at the market price. When I called to complain about the price, I was told that Suburban had pre-purchased their inventory at a higher price and was now passing that price onto consumers. That's BS. Since I didn't lock-in my price, why should I have to pay for their ignorance of locking in their price? I should be charged whatever today's market price is. When I asked them what today's price would be for a new customer using about 1,500 gallons, they said it would be $2.65 a gallon. However, I must admit that they adjusted my delivery price after complaining for 5 minutes. As much as I hate government regulation, isn't there a watchdog agency that handles consumer complaints and monitors price gouging? It really doesn't appear that NJ's propane companies operate in a competitive free-market economy.

Banker Bob

Had Ferrell gas for over 12 years..I was always paying top price; I later learned because I was a "low usage" person...about 275 gallons a year. I complained; they lowered the rates for about a year; they upped it out of sight....more complaining...

It wasn't until I told them to come and take their tank that they wanted to lower their price....

happened again-priced upped sky high...reason again "low usage".....

told them to take the tank.....they charged me almost $100. to remove their own tank..... "for labor". I sure as heck wouldn't mind making $100. in 5 minutes.... by the way they are only 3 miles from my house; so it sure wasn't a milage charge!!!!

Glad you are doing better with them than I did George!

media
Dec '08

Re the argument given by Suburban to Banker Bob that they had locked in inventory, I asked that question when I renegotiated, and was given an apparently honest answer, that Suburban is a national company with strong purchasing power, and does not get locked in to high prices. Therefore, you are correct that the market price should be a realistic guideline.

Re Media's comment on usage, as a light (400 gal/year) user. this argument is troublesome to me too. I was able to overcome their argument (this time) that I should pay more because I use less. I asked what would cause the price to change, I was told that it might change due to market prices--but not usage. I was told that I am now locked in to a lower price code. We'll see.

Re Steaming in Hunterdon's reference to proposed legislation
http://www.state.nj.us/dca/codes/ruleproposals/c_bor.pdf the bill seems to be mainly a disclosure bill. There is a reference to usage and market price.

(b) The per gallon price quote shall include the following information:

2. The cost of propane based on usage. Customers shall be informed that the cost of propane fluctuates based on the current market value of propane;

This at least demonstrates some interest by legislators, and should be followed. The problem is that many times legislation is written by the industry. Was there any consumer input? Steaming in Hunterdon posted a suggestion that we send in a comment to

Michael L. Ticktin, Esq.
Chief, Legislative Analysis
Department of Community Affairs
Post Office Box 802
Trenton, New Jersey 08625
FAX No. (609) 633-6729
E-mail: mticktin@dca.state.nj.us

The comment period passed in August, but I am going to write Mr. Tciktin anyway and ask whether the DCA required propane companies to notify customers that there was pending legislation. If not, why not? How were we supposed to find out?...by reading the NJ Register? I am going to link him to this comment page.

I reviewed my pricing back to 2005.

Jan. 2005 $2.129
Oct. 2005 $2.665 Not to bad.
Nov. 2005 $4.068 Uh Oh!
Dec. 2005 $4.284 Yikes!!
Jan. 2006 $475.1 Holy Cow!
Aug. 2006 $459.9 I complained about the price.
Dec. 2006 $3.579 Price reduced. Stayed there for 3 months.
Mar. 2007 $3.679 Started creeping back up.
Apr. 2007 $3.779 And up.
Dec. 2007 $4.479 And up. But so ware gas prices.
Oct. 2008 $487.9 As prices declined, I expected a reduction.
Nov. 2005 $487.0 No reduction.
Dec. 2008 $2.879 Complained and received a reduction.

The industry is unregulated. They apparently do not reduce prices when the market declines. Why don't these companies reduce the price when energy prices decline? Why do we have to beat on them for a fair price? There must be a slew of people being gouged right now. The economy is down, energy prices are down, unemployment is up, foreclosures are up. Wasn't gas price gouging illegal after Hurricane Katrina? Well, we are in an economic sunami. NJ needs legislation that does more than require disclosures. We need legislation that prevents propane company price gouging.

George
Dec '08

I reread some of the earlier posts. This one from BB in August caught ny attention.

"My best friend lives in a nice development....all the folks got together there and forced Suburban to sell them propane at a group rate.....reduced their bill by half!!!!!"

Forming a web based group buying pool might work.

George
Dec '08

George,

How did your friend's development approach Suburban as a group. I'm interested in a web-based buying pool. But I'm not sure how it would work in practice.

Steaming in Hunterdo

Steaming:
The group idea was from BB's friend, posted August 20. Perhaps BB will post an answer to your question. I would also like to know what they did, and what price and terms they were able to negotiate. Maybe we can join their group.

On the most basic level, you, and I, and anyone else who wanted to try this, could combine our volume and negotiate a bulk price with Suburban. If Suburban refused, plan B is go to another supplier, either individually, or as a group. If Suburban had not come down from $4.879 to $2.879, I would have switched. I already know I can get a further reduced price from Ferrell Gas. I am gathering evidence and building a case for a further reduction from Suburban. On 1/1/2005, the Mont Belvieu, TX Propane Spot Price FOB (Cents per Gallon)was $.7163. My price on 1/6/2005 was $2.12. The spot price on 1/23/2008 was $.615. My price is $2.879. On a ratio basis, it should be about $1.82. Here is the spot price source. http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/hist/rprousgd.htm

If I fail, I will move to a competitor. Perhaps it is necessary to keep moving from company to company to stay ahead on this. When I had oil it was easier because I owned the tank. This may be the big positive argument for owning the propane tank.

A more expanded view of group buying is a web based buying group membership association, e.g., the Residential Propane Users Association. Members would be serviced by the same company, e.g., Suburban. The association would require a commitment from members to a bulk advanced purchase. The association would negotiate the price on behalf of all members. Members would be advised of the price, and pay Suburban directly, in advance, for estimated usage. The negotiator would receive a fee, such as a percentage of the savings, based on the current price paid by each member, versus the reduced price.

It is possible to get more complex, such as members serviced by multiple companies, multiple states, association manages the money, etc. However, this is a vision for further down the road.

It surprised me to learn that "U.S. demand is approximately one-third that of heating oil." Source: http://www.nymex.com/pro_pre_agree.aspx. There is likely a big market for group buying. The long-term challenge would be to identify prospects. The economic solution is a robust web site that attracts prospects.

I also found the following informative re seasonal and group buying. Apparently, the time to negotiate is in the Spring-Summer.
http://www.aces.edu/dept/poultryventilation/documents/PEEMN-29PropanePriceMgmt.pdf

George
Dec '08

I just switched from Suburban to Allens Propane in Wrightstown NJ. Suburban was charging me $4.64 a gallon and Allens is charging $2.49 and thats not an introductory price. They came to the house and showed me that their highest price last winter was $3.09.

NavyGuy
Dec '08

Re: Buying a tank from your supplier.

As I mentioned a few posts ago, I have asked Suburban to quote me how much it would be to buy my 4 year old 1000 gal buried propane tank. After checking with the corporate office, they finally came back to me with a price of $1300. Kind-of what I expected. I'm currently paying then $2.89/gal. Now I need to find out the best price from another supplier and see what the net cost to buy the tank would be. I expect the best I can get might be between $2.00 and $2.30 in the current market.

Suburban may further reduce my price/gal to keep me a customer. We'll see. I'm probably due to delivery in the end of January.

Steaming in Hunterdo

I ran out today and filled 350 gallons (ran the truck dry) at $1.80/gallon in mid illinois. You guys are getting hosed. Strangely, I was offered a lock in for next winter (2009/2010) at $1.30ish.

dave

We are interested in purchasing a 1000 gallon under ground propane tank. Does anyone know any deals or who to stay away from??

elise

I would strongly suggest not putting the tank in the ground unless you plan on owning it. Once the tank is in the ground you are at the mercy of the company that put it there. I have been fighting with Suburban for the last 3 years. When I built my house I had Agway put the tank in and never signed a contract. Suburban bought out Agway and has proceeded to try every time I get the tank filled to raise the price. I locked in last year at 2.599 and shortly after my lock in ran out they charged me 3.73. I complained and the price was quickly reduced ti 2.999 but i did not lock in.
I had called over 15 documented times before I was able to get anything resolved with Suburban. To change companies after the tank ( if you don't own the tank) is in the ground the homeowner must have it emptied and excavated.

I am definitely interested in some sort of buying group

Jackson

does anyone know of a supply house where i can buy my own propane tanks?. I would love to tell sub-human propain to get their tanks out of my yard.. also , do they fall under the board of public utilities like Orange and rockland or verizon would?

bosefus
Jan '09

We live in Monmouth County NJ. As of December 2008, we are paying $3.05/Gal with Amerigas. I called and complained about this price given how fuel has dropped dramatically but they refuse to lower our rate. We have a 1000 gal tank and they also refused to tell us the date of our next delivery because we're on an automatic schedule!! So, we have to pay a jacked up price and have no way of knowing if they're fill levels are accurate unless we check our tank constantly in anticipation of our next refill. These propane companies are shady and I cannot believe they're able to go unregulated! I am going to write a letter to my congressman and to my senator. In this environment, this sort of "service" is nothing short of criminal and needs to be brought to everyone's attention. People of NJ: Let's all start calling our local news channels and see if we can collectively pursuade them to hunt down these companies and demand answers!

LA
Jan '09

I asked the Star Ledger (about a month ago) to read this thread and consider writing a story about it. Maybe we should send the thread to one of the news channels...

N & A & E

LA---
My lock in contract with Amerigas has a termination clause.
It says, the way I read it, that if I cause to terminate, I must pay $50.

earl
Jan '09

I have Ameriga$ and I am locked in at 3.05 a gal. I payed to lock in now if I want out of the lock in I have to pay again. What a ripoff. I called the local office back in Sept. to see what they can do, besides an attitude , NOTHING. I wanted them to take their tank out. but she told me the machine that removes the propane from my tank is broken. I spoke to the manager last month about this and was wondering what I am talking about. Local papers should do a report on this...

Pudge

All,

I send the following email today to Cynthia Wilk - NJ Department of Community Affairs - cwilk@dca.state.nj.us . She wrote me a letter on July 11, 2008 telling me about these regulations for propane companies.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ms. Wilk,

I am wondering what is happening with Propane Gas Customer Protection Act P.L. 2007, c150? When do propane companies need to comply with the regulations stated in the act? You wrote a letter to me on July 11, 2008 about this act.

You should read a thread this following community thread from Hackettstown http://www.hackettstownlife.com/forum/44021#71521.

People from all over the state are having MAJOR issues with their propane suppliers. Why does it seem like there is no action from the state of NJ?

I looking forward to your response.

BC

cc: Assemblyman Michael J Doherty via his web site.

Steaming in Hunterdo

Got a delivery from Suburban at $3.04/9 after being told it would be $2.89/9. I called, they fixed it; but I told them how difficult this is going to be paying $1,120.00 for just 2 months because the home I am renting is leaking cold air and the furnace is bad. She re-did my bill for $2.29.9 and locked me in until June at $2.39.9. I think that was really decent thing to do.... I so greatly appreciate it!!!

BT Resident
Jan '09

BT Resident - you may appreciate them lowering your bill....but they are still WRONG! If the current price is $2.29.9 then that's what they should bill you to begin with. What other business operates like this? They bill everyone at an outrageously high rate and then lower for the few that complain. This is price gouging; it's wrong and in my opinion it should be illegal.

FarmerJake
Jan '09

I sent a request for Fox 5 to read this and consider investigating. Cross your fingers!

N & A & E

I have Suburban Propane, I recently received a delivery on Jan 5th 2009. They charged me 4.5290 per gallon. I called them after reading this forum and asked them if there was a mistake made on my bill. It didn't appear as if it had been adjusted to compensate for the decrease in the cost of crude and gas. The lady who answered the phone told me there was not a mistake but she could probably lower the price a "little". I was put on hold for about a minute, and she came back with $3.75 (.75 off). I said that would be great but I would like to know the procedures and cost associated with switching Propane Dealers. She explained the charge of .75 per gallon for pumping it out and an additional service fee (she didn't know). She asked if it would help if she brought the cost down another 20 cents. I told her yes, but I found it hard to believe the difference in the cost of propane from dealers in the area. Specifically mentioned Allens propane in Wrightstown, who highest price was only about $3.30 at the peek of the gas prices. She then said she would try to bring it down to $3.30. I was put on hold (2 minutes) and okay she would adjust my bill. Price would hold until April, when I could call again to inquire about prices. Pathetics huh? over a 25% decrease because I called...for anyone who has not bothered you should consider it. Let these companies know we are informed consumers.

KC Upperfreehold Tow
Jan '09

The more you use the less the price is. For those of us who try to keep the thermostat down to save on heating bills are penalized by paying higher prices. I've read alot of the entries and it seems that Suburban has different rules for different areas. I too was told I could not buy the tank therefore making me a slave to Suburban because my 1000 gal tank is in the ground unless I empty and excavate. Back in November of 2006.
0-500 gal = 3.279
501-700 gal = 2.949
701- 1000 gal = 2.799
1001 - 1500 gal = 2.599
1501+ = 2.449
These prices are out of the Freehold Office in 2006

Jackson

To Jackson--Suburban doesn't have different rules for different areas. They have different rules for different customers.

Farmer Jake is spot on. Suburban's price should reflect the market. Instead, it reflects the squeaky wheel.

In these tough economic times, when energy prices are deflating, uninformed people are vulnerable to what appears to be unethical business practices by Suburban, and probably the other propane companies. Apparently they are not regulated, so it may not be illegal. Then again, gouging may be covered somewhere in trhe law when it potentially affects health and safety.

I still think group purchasing might be a viable strategy.

George
Jan '09

To Jackson:

I have an underground 1000 gal tank installed by Suburban in 2004. They said that I can buy the tank for $1300. George is right - they have different rules for different customers.

To ALL:

My inquiry to the NJ Consumer Affairs office about Propane Gas Customer Protection Act P.L. 2007, c150 was answered.

Paraphrasing -
The rule will be published as an adopted on February 2, 2009. As part of the new rule, Propane Suppliers will be required to distribute a copy of their “Customer Rights and Disclosure of Company Policies” to all of their existing customers and all of their prospective customers. The rule will require companies to outline what their charges are based on factors such as, minimum delivery amounts, delivery time, distance from the plant, tank rental fees etc. The document must be in a standardized format that will allow for easier comparison between companies. All propane companies will be required to send out the Customer Rights and Disclosure of Company Policies by July 1, 2009 in advance of next years heating season.

While this is a big step forward for us propane consumers it does little to prevent propane companies what they please to whomever they want.

Propane companies likely know about the rules already so I would suggest in conversations with them to point out your knowledge of the rules too. It may give you pricing leverage.

Steaming in Hunterdo

How things have changed.
Started using Propane back in 1968. Agway sent a crew out and set up a 2 tank system and hooked it up at no charge. I would call for a fill up when one tank went empty. Did not use much gas so they removed one tank and put me on a auto Del system. This was my 1st big cost rise. Then years back Suburban took over Agway and things really started to rise in cost. I ran out of Propane one Thanksgiving and they had to make a delevery. After that I was put on a monthly fill up. More $$$. Then they sent me a letter years back that I would have to pay a monthly rental fee on the tank I was using. I sent them a letter and was able to get them to drop this charge. Well this Jan I received a letter that in 30 days I would have to pay $75.00 a year rental on their tank. This is necessary because of the cost of steel and high maintance cost on this equipment. Tank been in place and is dated 1968. Hasn't moved. Did get a new sticker. They put a Suburban name sticker over the old Agway name.
Made phone calls and sent letters to Suburban without luck this time.
Called around and seams like others charge around $50.00. Thinking about buying my own tank at this time.
HOW THINGS HAVE CHANGED

Some of you that heat with propane may want to consider (if you have the land to disturb) installing an electric heat pump to heat/cool and it can be tied into he water heater as well. It is the most efficient system out there...

Jay

Jay ~

Have you ever heard of the Munchkin Furnace? It's supposed to be "the most efficient heating system" ?? Can't find anyone to service it.

BT Resident
Jan '09

Farmer Jake ~

I absolutely 100% agree with you. However, because of my personal difficult situation, I am afraid they might retaliate if I voice my outrage. Right now, I need their "generosity". I wish they would just play fair.

BT Resident
Jan '09

No, but I guess it a high efficiency furnace? The heat pumps can't be touched. Water recirculates in tubes 5+ feet underground where the temperature is around 50 degrees year round. In winter it extracts the heat, and in summer is dumps the heat. You need a property that is at least 1/2 acre and not too many rocks so it can be dug for a reasonable cost.

Imagine have solar panels on your home and ALL appliance running electric?

Point source water heaters are great to. Water is heated only when used in small units in each bathroom and kitchen.

In the long run (30+ years in the future) we all will be going this way to some degree...

Jay

DH installed solar panels on the roof of a house and the customers meter runs backwards. Imagine that, the electric being given back to the company and you bill being smaller. :)

Cherie

meant to say your...sorry

Cherie

suburban is such a wonderful company "hope you can tell my sarcasm" i live in Saratoga NY and back in September when i locked in my rate and they wanted to charge 3.479 a gallon called to various propane companies in my area and Saratoga propane was the cheapest at 2.599 .90 cents cheaper than suburban brought this to suburban's attention and the said sorry but we cant do anything for you asked them about purchasing the tank and they said we don't sell our equipment. complained and they lowered my rate to 3.199. problem is i never signed a lease to have the tank at the house the previous owner of the house signed the lease paperwork why is it such a pain in the a$$ to get a good rate. also we pre bought 700 gallons

funnycide
Feb '09

I called Suburban today and the rate is $2.79. I have a 500 gallon tank which requires a fill every 4 weeks. It runs me over $1000 a month and this is their "discount" rate based on how much I use every year. I'm paying $2.89 and I tried my best to get it lowered to the $2.79 with no luck. I'm disguested with propane and the companies that supply this utility. It's all about lining the pockets of executives and making profits look good for the "street" versus doing what's right for the customer. I was thinking about switching from Suburban, but based on the above, all these companies seem to be a big rip off.

I'm in Franklin Township (Hunterdon) and would welcome the opportunity to join a group in effort to reduce rates. If anyone out there has any good ideas on ways to reduce rates not already discussed, please share!

AnitainNJ

Feb '09

I would not reccommend anyone buy their underground tank from their propane co. If there is a problem with the tank it will be YOUR responsiblility to dig it up and repair it (if that's even possible). If you have a leak in the tank and the LP company owns it they have to credit you for the estimated amount of LP that leaked out. If you own it - your problem. Also be sure to call around and find out how many companies are willing to fill your tank. They have the right to say no. While you may not have a problem now because the economy is down, when things are good you could have a hard time. I used to work for a propane company and when I built my house 12 years ago the owner told me not to let them put the tank in the ground. Best advise ever! I have a 500 gallon above ground Amerigas tank in my yard that is hidden nicely by landscaping. The leverage power is great every year when I renew my contract. If I don't like the price I can simply tell them to come and pick up their tank, I have found a lower price elsewhere. They have always matched the lowest price I found and locked me in for the year.

Good Luck to all of you. Finding a good LP price is so frustrating especially if they know they have you!

LibertyMom
Feb '09

Hi all, I guess I am what you call a low usage customer since I just use the propane for hot water and my gas drier. I just got a 95.2 gallon delivery from Suburban Profane and it was ( sit down for this) $6.0209 a gallon. Totally outrageous. I called and they said I am on a tier 4 pricing since my use is low. I mentioned the prices for propane seem to be around 2.40 a gallon or thereabouts. They said basically "So What?". I am going to visit them tomorrow and complain in person. I already checked with another supplier in Wrightstown and was careful to tell them the usage and such and they quoted me $3.74 a gallon which while not being super it is over $250 cheaper for the volume I just got. I had switched to Suburban when it was Agway 13 yrs ago when I found out that MGS in my area was charging 5 different people 5 different rates and mine was one of the highest back then. Here I go again to war with the companies. This could get even more interesting as time goes on.

Mr. Bill
Feb '09

Low user ~ 200 gallons per year. Just filled on 3/9/09 98 gallons @ $4.049.
The retail price in NJ for last week was $3.02.
I'm so done with Suburban after 20 years. I've called them EVERY SINGLE time I've got a bill for a reduction.
Switching to an oil hot water heater and maybe an electric stove!

John
Mar '09

Wow, I'm not sure what to do now that I've read all these posts and I mean ALL. I live in Andover, NJ and have an all electric house. I'm about to install an energy efficient tankless water heater which requires GAS to run. I am about to get either OIL or Propane. Natural gas unfortunately is not an option for me. Now I'm not sure what to do. I only need about a 50 gallon tank to run the hot water heater only, but was thinking about getting a 100 gallon tank to also convert my fireplace to a propane gas fireplace with a fan to force the hot air throughout my house. I know it will save on my electric bill in the winter months. Now I'm not sure if this is all worth it. Maybe I should just stick with my electric hot water heater and just replace the unit for a couple of hundred bucks and be done with it.

I can't believe propane companies can get away with what they do? this is insane.

Thank you all for your advise and postings, this has been a great help for me.

If anyone has any advise on what i should do please let me know. I'm a single mom working full time and trying to raise 3 kids. it's not easy.

stephanie
Mar '09

I have a 1000 gallon tank installed in 2005. Took Suburbans tank and had to stay with them for 5 years or pay $1800 for the tank. In Nov 2008, when crude and gas prices plummeted, I received a rather large delivery for the beginning of winter (at 4.07/gallon) I called suburban and they told me they had already bought their supply and thats why it was still high. I told them the average in my ares was 2.38. They agreed to lower it to $2.50 until April 2009 and then give me $1.00 differential in April ($1.00 lower than their posted price) I am sure this new price will be significantly higher when it adjusts. They are sneaky too, they keep coming every 30 days (on a sunday) at 6:30 am. I never know they come until its on my doorknob. They used to continually fill to 80% capacity but now its 200 gallons a month. I currently have 55% full. Are they waiting till April to give me 400 gallons at a higher price. We'll see!!

JH
Mar '09

About 2 or 3 months ago, Suburban locked me in at 2.39/9 until June. Though I appreciate their "generosity", how can a utility company be so arbitrary?? How can that be legal?

BT Resident
Mar '09

Ok I have a question. I just got 24.1 gallons of propane at 4.32/gal from Budd Oil, is that bad?

Seein the Reality

Mar '09

Hello Folks,

Great thread and I feel all your pain. I have several issues with AmeriGas myself.

I have a 1000G tank (existing underground when I bought the house)

First, they tell me they have to fill my tank every time they come out due to "safety issues". Can anyone confirm this? I know there was a least one time in 2007 when they came and put only 100G in the tank. When I asked them how they got past the "safety issues" they said that due to a shortage of propane they were going out to all there customers and giving them a little top of to hold everyone over until they got there main delivery. It's interesting that there safety regulations are subjective. I wonder if I can be subjective in the amount I pay them.

When I purchased the house back in 2006, they sent me a contract, which I still have not signed and have no intention of ever signing. Some of the terms are competely insane. Such as, if they determine there's a "health or safety threat" (whatever that means), they can terminate my contract and charge me to pump out, excavate, and remove the tank and then charge me a termination fee and a restocking fee (I think I even may have to give over my first born).

I have a suggestion/proposition to my fellow propane users. I'm not sure how to exactly implement this, but it seems to me it's got to be possible and would be beneficial/cost effective if enough of us join in.

Back in the 90s I lived in a very rural part of Virginia. The telephone company that serviced the area was actually a cooperative which the residents joined for a fee/dues and then also paid monthly service charges similar to dealing with Verizon et al. Basically, the residents owned the telephone company, there was a board of directors, and after 10 years, the members became vested in the cooperative and would receive yearly dividend checks (I still receive mine today and I moved out of Virginia in '95).

It appears from reading through this thread that many, if not all of us, feel we are being raped by our current suppliers. If we could all speak as one, change would be inevitable. Like I said above, I'm not exactly sure how to pursue this or how many of us would need to go in on it to make it cost effective. I would envision some type of limited liability company would need to be formed. We could call it the New Jersey Home Owner's Propane Cooperative [NJHOP COOP]. I'm sure there's Hazmat rules/regulations and maybe even licenses that would also need to be obtained. We would have to figure out storage/lease issues for tanks and distribution, or maybe we could just subcontract back to the suppliers we all hate at a much reduced price.

I'm motivated to investigate this concept further and would appreciate any feedback/ideas on the topic. In a quick google search I came upon the Consolidated Gas Cooperative ( http://www.co-opgas.com/default1.htm). This is basically the type of idea I tried to describe above.

Tony in New Jersey
Mar '09

Wow -- Amerigas tells me that they own my underground tank, previous owner says they don't - following up. Amerigas gave me the same story about a partial fill-- "too dangerous - need 2 men." So... how much would that cost? - "They just couldn't arrange that anyway." It's April and I've run out of propane -- now why would a sensible person want to spend ANY money on a mandatory full fill when prices will be going down very soon - warmer weather means lower prices. By the way-- "Their policy is to never sell their gas tanks. " I've called the local office many times, and the national complaint office, and state consumer offices, the next is the attorney general. Tell everyone you know about what is going on -- this way when the news outlets start reporting about this we'll all have even more community support.

Randinorsk
Apr '09

Well nice to see Im not the only one in this boat! I've been fighting over 21 years on the issue of the way they (propane) regulate the gas for the consumer.I bought my own tank after 15 years when I found out that the cost per gallon also had "rental of tank fee" included in the price (at some times almost as much as a buck per gallon).There is a lot of HooHanky that goes on and it looks like they(the propane companies) are banding together as one in NJ.I find it amazing that no State tax is imposed on a "Fuel" such as Propane-but instead the industry pays a "Percentage" of the sold item to the State coffers every year! Hmmm. Also to help jack prices up,if there is a shortage in one state other states will ship the product to that state thus raising prices "Equally throughout",and during winter months when Natural gas goes up in price,the refineries switch over Propane to cut cost,of the gas refining process and again causing a shortage and starting the vicious cycle all over.
We do need get some type of regulation going in NJ on this but it seems to always fizzle out.I guess good things come to those that wait.

EBL
May '09

I'm a builder and just installed a new 1000 under ground gal tank against my better judgement...Then I got the fill bill and hit the roof. I get a discount as a builder, but always went with an above ground 500 gal tank before, just for the reason of being able to change companys easily. This time I let myself get talked into an under ground tank, never again!

I'm thinking that if I get stuck with this house and end up moving into it, I'll run the tank dry & yank it out myself (I had to install it myself). & install an above ground 500 or 1000.

FYI, The last house I built was a 2500 sq ft bi-level home w/ 2x6 exterior walls w/ R19 insulation, R32 in the ceiling, low E windows & doors & a 95% efficient hot air furnace, gas cooking stove & gas fireplace. 500 gal above ground tank outside. The owner told me she spent $500 in propane for the year! I don't know what she paid per gal, but that sounded great.

Stupid me

I have amerigas @3.05 gallon plus 8.00 month fee to be in the budget plan price guarantee. I called around and got prices of 2.70 gal. in NJ. I called a company in Pa. and was quoted 1.75 gal,no extra charges except 2400 a year tank rental. Is this too good of a deal to be true? or has the price gone down that dramatically.,or is it possible that I have been gouged all these years.

Indy taxpayer
May '09

24.00 a year tank rental, sorry

Indy taxpayer
May '09

Just got a quote from
AmeriGas
7510: Clinton, NJ
100 Beaver Ave.
Annandale, NJ 08801
Call us today: 908-730-6700
Quote:$1.99 gal

My tank

gas user
May '09

Although the Propane company owns the tank, plus have us pay a lease/maintenance fee, what's to stop you from getting it filled by 2 different propane gas companies? [never sign any contract or if you already have one, just let it expire...they'll still deliver you the propane] - But instead of have us haggle and profusely beg to have them lower the price, I say Turn-the-Table on them!!!...Whoever has the lowest price, fill your tank with another propane supplier/competitor (near full about semi-annually or annually to keeps them off base), since it's our right who to call to fill in the tank [after you get off the tank-owned company's auto/monthly plan to a You'll Call plan] - Once or twice a year, call a competitor, tell them you own your own tank and need it filled (when it's near empty) whoever offers the best price - When/if they try to lock you into a monthly plan, just tell them you travel a lot or live in the house about 6-8 months a year and you will give them a call when you need another near full fill just to keep them off your back - So far I've been averaging about 2.25/gal for the last 2 years - I'm ready when the tank owned company calls...What are they going to say?-I fill it with who I find has the better price...If they can't compete, give me a the better price, then fine, take the tank away! - I do this because I also ready even if the do want to take the tank away since I'd like to install an over-ground tank to always have the better hand/options! - after all THIS IS AMERICA! having choices are priceless!!!

Bugsy

In response to Bugsy's comment that what is to stop you from having one company fill anothers tank. A propane company's tank is protected by FEDERAL LAW. If you have say Suburban fill a tank you have from Amerigas, Ameigas can take you to court and you will have to pay for the tank and any lost revenue that they lost by someone else filling their tank. And yes this is America thats why you can buy your own tank. Having one company fill someone elses tank would be like me renting out your house.

loucen
May '09

Bugsy - it sounds like a good plan. However, from what I hear the propane companies will not fill a tank unless you can prove ownership. I'm not sure exactly what that means.....do propane tanks have titles like automobiles? This is all part of their scam - protecting each others right to screw their own customers. If you own your own tank, your sugggestion should work great.

You're correct about threatening to remove the tank. At one point (when I was completely fed up) I told them to come and take their tank out of the ground. After much ado, they lowered their price way down and removed the rental fee.

FarmerJake
May '09

They will not knowingly fill another company's tank, I was told that they would ask for the tanks purchase receipt from a new customer. New company can get in big trouble with the law, as well as you I was told.

On the otherhand, why not just buy an above ground tank & hook that up instead? Have the tank in the ground pumped into the new one, or better yet let it run dry first. If the u/g tank company calls, tell them to come get their tank, at that point they'll probably want to give it to you. I doubt they'll want to deal with removing a tank from your yard.

Stupid me

Suburban just quoted me $4.01 per gallon today for delivery next week. When I asked them why so expensive they said it is because we only used/ordered 500 gallons from them so far this year. I am fairly new to this whole propane game. I am used to natural gas. We have a 1000 gallon tank from Suburban buried in our yard. I got so fed up after hearing that quote that I dug up the contract w/suburban from when they put the tank in our yard to read the fine print and see what my options are. Interestingly enough my contract does not have my signature anywhere on it. Any words of wisdom or recent qoutes from surbaban? I would like to compare their quotes to others and figure out the best way to deal with this issue. Perhaps I should just pruchase the tank from them and negotiate around for the best price. Anyone with that experience? Did it pay off?

kam
May '09

I called Amerigas two weeks ago and was quoted 1.99 a gal for first fill for new customer. I'ts best to not have the underground tank. Now your stuck, I would try to get it out as mentioned above. With an above ground tank, you can switch companys yearly to get the best rate. You just call the old company to tell them to come get their tank, that a new company is already hooked up.

Stupid me

I ended up calling Amerigas and they quoted me $1.90 per gallon for first fill and they will remove Suburban's tank and replace it with one of there own for free if I switch. I asked them the rate for that day if I was a returning customer. It was $2.53 per gallon (based on my annual usage). Then there would be some small fees as well. Called Suburban Propane told them I was going to switch over to the competition. All of the sudden I was put on hold, they tried numerous tricks and in the end they said they would lock me in at $2.89 per gallon till Sept. 30, 2009. It is very disturbing how they can get away with charging each individual customer a different rate.

kam

kam
Jun '09

So glad I found this website. We were Suburban Propane (low use i guess) customers who paid $6.449 per gallon in September,08, and $4.00 in Jan. 09. We went from low-use to higher-use in April when we had to install a gas water heater. We were charged $6.04 for a bill of $618.38. When I complained that it was so much more than I expected, they lowered it to $531.01. In reading all the previous letters I don't see anyone paying near that much - this is Belvidere, NJ. Wonder I have have any recourse.

Fummed
Jun '09

From January to April of this year, I was paying $2.39/9 per gallon through Suburban. While I appreciated the'discount', I find it appaling that they have the right to be so arbitrary, that they can charge whatever they want, to whomever they choose.

I have since moved and longer need them. I have NJNG now and I am thrilled with them AND their service! I only need gas for heat and right now, my bill is zero!

ML Laker
Jun '09

For the smaller volume customer, you can buy your own 100LB (tall & thin) propane tanks for around $129 at Lowes or Tractor Supply. You can link a few together. That way you should be able to get a cheaper price and not locked to one of these *%$@#^ propane companys. Any way you cut it, they s*uck!

Jon C

Jun '09

Historical Propane Gas Prices:

I am trying to find out what propane gas sold for on average in 1994. In Black hawk Colorado or generally in Colorado.I don't know if there is an association that keeps average prices or not.

Mike Cottle

Jul '09

Just got a quote today from Amerigas. They own my 1000 gal. tank. I can lock in for the year at $2.40 @gal. + $99 lock-in fee or pay going rate, right now $2.90. Advise is welcome.

earl44
Jul '09

earl 44 this is what I did . Call quality propane in stroudsburg. They sent me a contract for around 1.80 a gallon price lock guarantee till may 2010. About 30.00 tank rental per year. waived the fee the first year. I t cost me about $700 for a full tank . I got back from amerigas $800 for a half tank at $310 a gallon that they were charging me last year.

mike076
Jul '09

Earl - I don't haven't seen any prices for next lock-in next winter, so I can't comment on that. About two weeks ago, Eastern Propane wanted to fill me up at $2.16/gal. I also checked with Tolino's in Wind Gap PA and their current price was $1.85. So, I'd say the $2.90 price is way too high.

Mike Cottle - check the following website for historical prices back to 1990. This website is for the East and Midwest, so it only goes as far west as Nebraska. Maybe you can find a link on the website to find info for Colorado.

http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pri_wfr_a_EPLLPA_PRS_cpgal_w.htm

FarmerJake
Jul '09

Earl,

I just got the same notice from Amerigas.. however, since it's owned by them, I thought there isn't much we can do to get a lower price from somewhere else. Unless you are willing to have the tank removed, which I don't plan on doing. It's like we are stuck!

Rosa
Jul '09

I'm looking for best place to purcase prebuy propane gas. does anyone would like to share? Thanks,

BK
Jul '09

Jay - You may want to read this thread.

BLD
Aug '09

Hi,

I guess I was lucky... I live in VA and set up a pre-pay contract with Valley Energy. While I made a significant up-front commitment (I chose to purchase 2,000 gallons up front), I was able to get a rate of $1.79/gallon with a refund next June for the portion that is unused.

After reading many of the posts on this board, I would recommend staying away from the big names and looking for smaller distributors in order to get the best price. Just my two cents...

propane-man

Suburban Filled the Tank Last week at $6.09.. per Gallon... I called and they Said " How about $2.94.. This is Disgusting,,, I Have a Pool Heater Tank, Hot water and Cooking Tank and they Say I don't Use enough for a Discount," Why did They Discount the Price When I called ?" Also the Tank Charge is $70 Per Year

Chubby

I got my prebuy offer from Eastern Propane this week. The price is $2.29/gallon. I called and found out the current price is $2.23/gallon, so I had them fill it up at the current price and then I'll prebuy whatever I need for the winter.

A friend of mine has Suburban and he was quoted a prebuy price of $2.79/gallon. After some haggling (and a threat that they can come and remove their tank) they lowered the price to $2.40/gallon.

FarmerJake

kozimor's gave me 20 pounds for the best price in the area, i just can't recall right now what i spent , but it was better than the 17.5 punds you get at the home depot of walmarts

BrotherDog

Locked in with Suburban at 2.19 today.

N & A & E

How did you get 2.19 with Suburban?

I was just quoted 2.74 from Suburban for filling 1000 gal tank in Northern NJ.

rich

We told them to come and take the tank. We mentioned that another company quoted 1.99 for new customers. They had to get a supervisor, but they lowered the price.

N & A & E

This is my dilema: I live in PA., have an underground tank (not sure if I own it or they do) and receive my propane from Amerigas. Is it worth it for me to continue to pay $8.25 a month with the Amerigard Plan so that I can lock my price at $2.46 or should I terminate with the Amerigard Plan and take my chances? After looking at this site, I'm convinced they've been ripping me off for years! Thanks in advance for your feedback.

Linds

So whats the Surburban price i got 2 huge tanks that run my generator

Claude

I have spoken to Amerigas, Yankee, and Suburban recently and the manager at Suburban really impressed me. He was far nicer and honest than the other two, though a little more expensive. All three companies are offering 1.99/gal for the first fill, but the 1 year lock prices are considerably higher.

It seems pretty clear the best situation is to own your own tank so you can shop around and buy gas from whoever you want. I have had my tank 1000 gal underground tank for 10 years now and at this point I would like to buy it outright. Problem is, Suburban is resisting my efforts to purchase. To those of you that had success, how did you convince them to sell? How did you negotiate the price?

rich

I live in the mid west. Missouri...I own my tank..last year propane was at about 2.36 ...so I put in a wood stove..I heat with wood and u porpane to just heat the water.. My tank is about 500 gal..I only use about 180lbs for hot water.in one year...Here is the deal..I look for a place that does cut up wood.. you can get what they can make into lumber for around 10.00 per 3500 lbs... also look to change over to the electrcal company... then u can tell them to put there propane.. where do them the most good. You can fine a good wood stove ..just look around..The propane companys here are about .10 of each other..I don't understand the swing in propane there.. Its just not that hard to change the water tank to electric..Or go to a deman hot water tank.. There a saving on the taxs to change over on the hot water tank

paul

just lock propane for the winter at 1.27.. One week befor was at 1.19

Paul

Called Suburban the other day about current rates.

I was quoted $2.699 for Early Buy Plan, $2.899 for Secured Plan and $3.449 Cash.

Any way you slice it, I'm going to the poor house. And it will probably be cold.

Dallas

'Cash' is more expensive than the others?

Chaos

Doesn't make much sense, does it?? They got us by the b*lls

Dallas

Dallas -

I wouldn't accept those prices from Suburban. Most time you get that that substantially reduced with one phone call. Just tell them the price is way out of line with what others in the area are paying (2.30/gal to $2.40/gal). If they don't budge, threaten that you're going to switch companies.

FarmerJake

FarmerJake:

Thanks, but they own the tank so I can't use any other company. They don't sell the tanks to homeowners easily either. That's why I say, they got use by the b*lls.

I haven't purchased anything yet, so when I do call to lock in the prices for the year, I will certainly make a stink. Too bad it has to be that way.

Maybe I should move to MidWest Missouri with Paul where it's only 1.27......

Dallas

Dallas,

Be persistent; if they won't sell you the tank then tell them to come and remove it from your property. I used this tactic in the past and eventually they lowered their price way down.

And yes, a move to the midwest does seem appealing at times...

Good luck.

FarmerJake

dallas you may think that they have you, but they are the ones that have to take out the tank. Is it inground or difficult to get to? Those trucks that take out the tanks do a lot of damage to driveways and blacktop. They leave tire ruts right in the lawn. Is it worth all the damage that they will have to fix to take out your tank ? They may not sell tanks easily, but they also can't destroy your property to take one out without recourse. If they can get it out easily then let them take it and go with a smaller cheaper company in pa. listed on this site. you still won't own the tank , but you will get a new one.

mikeo
Sep '09

Jake & Mike:

Thanks for the input. The tank is underground, right in the front yard and easily accessible. Maybe I'll take out my bat and start playing hard ball with these prices.

Another pet peeve: They have a bright red sticker on the top of the tank that says "Suburban" for all the world to see. A little free advertising at my expense. I'll paint over that next.

Here's to a warm winter :-)

Dallas

I to am un happy with Suburban, @ $3.62 a gal . but it is not so much the price its the fact that I asked to be taken off the automatic delivery service and they said NO! I was beside my self. They seem to time it just right so that when they come to fill my tank it just at the peak price and I'm stuck with a $800.00 bill I can't afford. I have been calling and telling them 100 gals at a time, Its a pain but its easier than trying to cover that big hit all at once. Also before I knew that I HAVE TO USE SUBURBAN because they own the tank. I called Yankyee Propane in Sussex nj. Thier price for propane was amlost half the price of Suburban however I needed to show proff that I owned the tank. I am wondering now if I should just go and buy a few 100lbers from Lowes and hook them up to the house just to get the cheaper price, and tell Suburban to go scratch. Anyone have any thought on that??

Sal

So it looks like the going rate on propane in NJ with Suburban is around $2.79. Which seems off since rocket high gas prices had me at $2.89 last year. Anyone get a quote lower than this? I'm preparing for my yearly call to customer service to dispute and argue the pricing and need to get as much leverage as I can.

AnitainNJ

Here in NW Wisconsin I got an offer for 1.38 pre buy or 1.53 for lock-in

Jay
Sep '09

Yes read my posts from 9/4 and 9/9. Just keep fighting and then request a supervisor!

N & A & E

AnitainNJ - I know someone that "wrestled" Suburban down to $2.40 and I see someone above got them down to $2.19; Good luck!

Jay - yes we know all about the lower propane prices in other parts of the country. It doesn't make sense to me, but for whater reason costs are inflated here in NJ. Perhaps it's because the industry is unregulated and the crooks (propane dealers) can engage in unfair business practices.

FarmerJake

can anyone recommend a company to install a homeowner owned 1000 gal underground tank?

dan
Oct '09

Just paid $3.54 in Post Washington NY from Paraco gas is this too high.

Rob

Tannersville, PA

Avoid Modern Gas like the plague!

I just got a delivery from them. They charged me $3.21 a gallon for heating gas! They are also charging me $4.95 a gallon for cooking gas.

The going rate from other companies is around $2.09.

Do not deal with Modern Gas, they are thieves!

mrsfixit
Oct '09

I PAY 2.09 PER GALLON FROM SUBURBAN. I told them to pull their under-ground tank out of my backyard unless they provide pricing in line with the current national average.

N & A & E

N & A & E - Great job! Way to play hard ball with crooks! Everyone that has Suburban should call them up and demand the same price!

FarmerJake

Precision is a bunch of crooks too. They will not budge from their $2.89 a gallon and with a 300 gallon minimum. What's the minumum for the other companies?

Deanna

I just want to say thanks for this discussion. I am buying a house that uses propane for everything but now I am thinking of spending the few extra bucks to convert to oil heat and just use the propane for my stove. Its too bad because the previous homeowner just put in a brand new furnace, but the cost in the long run looks like it may be better to go with oil. I just called Precision Propane in Franklin and they gave me a price of $2.49 a gallon but that is not the locked in price. It would be $4.79 a gallon just for the stove. This is all compared to $2.25 a gallon for oil and after speaking with the representative at Precision, the oil seems to last longer too.
I dont know though. I could be totally wrong. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks

Mark

Out here in rural South Dakota, just contracted for 988 gallons propane at $1.24/gal. (500 gal min.)
Summer fill prior to Sept. 30 cutoff was $1.11/gal.
You folks back East seem to be getting ripped by local suppliers.
Keep warm!

Wayno

Mark -

Oil does indeed provide more heat per galllon; propane yields 91,000 BTU per gallon and oil yields 133,800 BTU per gallon. That means every gallon of oil will give you about 50% more heat than a gallon of propane! Propane furnaces do operate more efficiently than oil furnaces, so it the difference isn't quite that large (but it doesn't change that much).

IMHO, convert to oil right away. I wanted to convert years ago, but I ran into a snag: I have a furnace in my attic. To run oil up there required a pressurized system and if the line ever got a leak (and oil dripped down into the walls/living space) it would have been a catastrophy.

Good luck!

FarmerJake

Eastern Propane in Oakridge just quoted me 2.44/gal. Seems to be the lowest I can find.

Tired of being cold!
Oct '09

I just got Oct delivery from Suburban $2.799. Seems too high even for NJ. What is the low price from Suburban so far this season that people are getting?

Steaming in Hunterdo

just paid 1.90 through quality propane in belvidere n.j. after fighting to buy my tank from amerigas (rip off companies) best advise is force them into selling you the tank. if they refuse tell them to come get there tank off your property and get a lawyer/congress person involved. It will save you thousands of dollars in the long run!!!!!

joe

After trying to keep the temperature in my house down to 6o degrees all winter, I managed to only have my propane tank filled once this year. I called and asked to have the tank filled.....I just got the bill $9.99 per gallon........I can not believe it.....the most I have ever paid for propane was about $3 +/- per gallon. I now have a $1,605.39 for 159.7 gallons of propane to heat my small home.

Unbelievable...... Modern Gas of pleasantville should inform their customers that the price has tripled since the last delivery.

Isn't there any regulatory agencies in New Jersey?

A gasp

There's a new propane company in Easton, Pa (GreenWorks Propane) that quoted me $1.85 a gallon. They will sell or rent you a tank. Really straight foward guys. 888-lpg-4less.

Pa Guy

Wher is the cheapest price on lp

dwg
Oct '09

a gasp don,t pay it ,get another company ,tell them to come and get their gas made out of gold and their tank too . you can,t be that crazy that you would actually pay 9.00 a gallon for propane. Are you really somebody from suburban or amerigas who is trying to make us think that 3.00 a gallon is cheap? My sympathy to you if you are on the level

mikeo
Oct '09

I talked Suburban down from $2.799 to $2.399. Why do I have to to this every year?

Steaming in Hunterdo

So Green Works Propane in PA is only $1.85 a gallon ... sounds really good doesn't it ... but check out the prices to rent the tank and you could be paying the same as the higher companies by the time you pay the rental and if you don't use a ton of propane.

I have a 500 gallon tank which means that I would be paying $41.18 a month rental which is $494.15 a year ... so if I get 500 gallons = $1419 for the year because I only need it for fireplaces. If I pay through mine $2.89 for 500 gallons = $1445.00 either way they are both wripping people off. The lower price sounds great until you add in the extra charges where I am not paying a rental on mine. So either way, it sucks!!!

susan

If you are unhappy with the current NG price gouging, I suggest you go to the EIA site and get the current retail price of NG for your region (currently for the East Coast it is $2.30-$2.50). If your supplier is way out of line, tell them. If they do not respond, file a complaint with your state Attorney General's office and include the documentation from the EIA site and a copy of your out of line bill. Two or three complaints won't do much, but if the AG office gets a dozen or so, gouging suppliers will likely find themselves in hot water.

Also suggest you send a copy of the documentation to your Congress critter. They are quite sensitive to populist topics these days.

Jim
Nov '09

Hi all,
The prices that you are quoting...are they to lock in pricing for the season, or for one time delivery? I own my tank and have some flexibility with who I use to fill it. I just called Suburban Propane (2.479 per gallon) and Yankee Propane (2. 469 per gallon). I've just sent an email to see if Green Works Propane will deliver to Sparta, NJ ~ so we'll see what they come back with.

We typically don't lock in, because the rates vary so much and oil is not so high this season. In fact, the rates that I am getting now, are much lower than the 2.79 that I was quoted to lock in this summer.

Thanks!

bwise in Sparta

Nov '09

i just got a load of propane from suburban you wont belive this 5.46 a gallon rip off what do i do

fran

Nov '09

I just got a filled tank from H&H gas ... no emergency. I got the bill today (delivered on Nov. 18th), 156.5 gallons = $626.00 + NJ PPTAX $626 + RCC CHARGE $5.44
Grand total of $637.70
WOW! I was stunned when I opened the bill ... is this what the current rate is here ???? How can one argue this pricing???

I am in Monroe Township, NJ

Free free to email me directly ... NewJerseyFarmer@aol.com
Laurie Ann

Laurie Ann

Nov '09

Greenworks Propane in Easton PA charged me 1.85 per gallon and rented me a 120 gal tank for 14.00 per month and i use 1200 gal per year. Why would you need a 500 gal. tank if you only use 500 gal per year? I was paying 3.29 per gallon and more in some months, I am saving over 1500 dollars per year and I dont use as much Propane as my neighbors .They are all calling Greenworks. One of my neighbors owns his tank and Greenworks still only charged them 1.85 per gallon.

Wayne
Nov '09

GreenWorks just delivered to my work in Allentown, PA for $1.69!!

Pa Guy
Nov '09

Just in case anyone was wondering why the propane prices are so hi in NJ, check out the new jersey department of consumer affairs website here: http://www.state.nj.us/dca/codes/lp_gas/pdf/lp_mins/2009_minutes.shtml I took the liberty of googling the names of everyone on the lp gas board and had some very interesting results: the main people on that board are employed by a propane company even the chairman of the board William Curcio. What a mockery to the citizens of NJ. They call it "The Department of CONSUMER Affairs" WHAT A JOKE. Anyone ever heard of CONFLICT OF INTEREST.The citizens of new Jersey should get together and boycott the companies that have someone on the board of this agency that was set up to help the consumers.Here is a list of these people and the companies they work for:

William Curcio Chairman of the board- Eastern Propane
Larry A. Horowitz -H&H Gas co.
Thomas A. Leahy MGS Gas Co.

PO'D in NJ
Nov '09

Does anybody know if greenworks delivers to newton nj area

Wood boiler

We got $1.79 from Greenworks today. $41 and change to rent or $1900 to buy, but he said he'd come down on the purchase price. $1.94 to lock in if we want to.

An important point -- both Greenworks and Amerigas have cranes and can move new tanks OVER fences. Budd Oil does not have a crane and needs a 10' gate opening -- very huge.

Greenworks, hands down, had 100% better customer service than Amerigas. Budd Oil is terrific, but the crane/gate size is the issue.

We'll go with the tank rental for now. We'll likely purchase soon. No other bull crap fees from Greenworks. And their price is the same whether you buy from them or own your tank. Some companies charge more if you own your tank. Ridiculous.

Greenworks will even pump out the gas from our existing tank and pump it in to our new tank -- at no charge. Everyone else charges for this.

I'm glad to have found Greenworks -- thanks to those who have posted!

pokerstar
Dec '09

My history with Suburban Propane over the past year, in Landing, NJ, is as follows:

Nov 2008 delivery of 22.5 gallons @ 5.849 per
May 2009 delivery of 23.9 gallons @ 6.049 per (reduced to 5.109 after complaint)
Nov 2009 delivery of 22.7 gallons @ 6.999 per (reduced to 5.409 after complaint)

I live alone and only use propane for my oven & dryer. WHY SHOULD I HAVE TO PAY MORE PER GALLON FOR USING LESS?? It's like I'm being punished for not doing a dozen loads of laundry a week! It's totally outrageous!

Why are they allowed to charge differently for propane versus gasoline? They're both commodities. It's not like you have to pay more per gallon at the gas pump just because you drive a small car with a 12 gallon tank, versus some monster SUV with a much larger tank. It makes no sense! It probably comes down to the fact that gasoline prices are out there for everyone to see - there's actual competition - everyone has the info up front, and can just drive on down the street for a better rate.

If I didn't call Suburban, they would have been more than happy for me to pay them $6.999 per gallon. Corrupt!

Based on a much earlier posting from "George", I'm going to give that Ferrell Gas a call and see if they 1. service my area and 2. really don't charge per gallon based on volume.

Whitney

I have Suburan and am very unhappy with thier arbirary pricing. I have a 500gal underground tank and use about 1200gal a year. They first quoted me $5.00 gal, then came down to $4.15, then $3.90gal after much complaining. I am trying to get them to sell me the tank so I can look for the best price next year. They are refusing to sell it to me now. Does anyone know how to get them to do this? They lost my contract for when they put in the tank so there is nothing in writting. Also, is it legal for them the charge so much more for propane then thier competitors?

shannon

Update on Greenworks and Amerigas.
We went with a 325 gallon tank - only $26 and change monthly rental fee. The 500 gallon tank was $41 and change.

I can't say enough about the terrific customer service. It's two brothers who own it. They brought a 'Cat to our house to make it through our gate and to deal with the snow they had to go over. We were impressed!

I called Amerigas to tell them to come get their tank. I explained we bought a house that had their tank, and we are using another company, so they can come get it. This part is hysterical -- they wanted to charge me $92 and something else to pick it up. They said it's part of our lease. I said I AM NOT YOUR CUSTOMER. She said haven't you been using our tank? I said -- it was here when I moved in, but I AM NOT YOUR CUSTOMER. Man, that lady got sarcastic and nasty!!

I think what happened is that we slipped through Amerigas cracks. We bought a house with an above ground tank and weren't handcuffed to them. We bough the gas left in the tank at closing, but we didn't have to open an account with them, it seems, to use the tank. We just used down the gas, had Greenworks remove the Amerigas tank, and WE ARE FREE!

What a lesson in customer service. Greenworks is WONDERFUL. Amerigas SUCKS.

pokerstar
Dec '09

shannon run don't walk and call quality propane or greenworks. Let them set you up and tell suburban to do what they like with the tank after it is empty. what do you care if they take it out or not.? the labor is on them

mikeo
Dec '09

whiitney had the same problem with my mother in law. problem was solved with two 220 lines and an electric dryer and stove,and no more being held hostage by suburban or amerigas

mikeo
Dec '09

Anyone have an answer, Just purchased a new home...never was disclosed anywhere that the propane tank was not ours and was rented...this is all new to me. Can i turn around and make original builder pay to buy it since it is said that everything on the property is mine. thanks

new to me
Dec '09

I would contact your attorney and have him the review the contract. If it wasn't disclosed in the contract then perhaps you can claim ownership.

FarmerJake

Thank you, this whole propane thing is all new to me. I never knew people even rented the tank. I have another question.....Is the propane currently in the tank mine since i never signed a contract with any company stating I was their customer. thanks for help

new to me
Dec '09

I called Greengas and they were very nice -- and extremely cheap -- but they don't service Bergen County, NJ yet. They were shocked when I told them the price I was billed. So I just got Suburban to go from $5.35 a gallon to $2.79 by first requesting to cancel my service and mentioning their prices were double what I've been offered.

Dennis

Does Greengas service Sussex County? I live in Green Twp, on the border of Warren County. I just had a delivery of propane at $4.13 a gallon! The bill is $1318.00 - I have a 3750 sqaure foot house, and it is KILLING me! Heat, hot water, stove...

What can I do - I have Suburban, who I despise. ANy ideas out there?

Dana Mooney

Try Amerigas.... http://www.amerigas.com/

Meeeee

Dana,

$4.13 per gallon is criminal!!

Read through all the posts above. The only way to get any relief from these companies is to play hardball. Tell them to come and remove their tank. They'll give you all kind of excuses and nonsense, but don't listen to them. Stick to you guns and demand they remove your tank (also tell them you are reporting their price-gouging to the better business bureau - they hate that!). When they realize you are serious, they'll lower their price way down to keep you as a customer. It looks like the lowest rpices are just below $2/gal. Demand this price from Suburban.

These propane companies prey on those that don't know better or that don't fight back. Every single person (that I know of) that pushed back and demanded lower prices are successful. You just need to be forceful. Good luck and let us know what happens.

FarmerJake

Of course, NJ is the highest on the east coast (and then some) according to this.

http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/PET_PRI_WFR_A_EPLLPA_PRS_CPGAL_W.htm

What really burns me is the wholesale cost.

http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pri_wfr_dcus_SNJ_w.htm

Thats over 100% profit while heating oil is only 80 cents over wholesale or about 38% profit

Jim

Just got 347 gal delivered in Oak Ridge from Suburban @ 7.19/ gal. !! Needless to say I'm not paying that. I needed time to cool off and I'll call today. I'm definately going to switch companies ASAP if the tank is not an issue. I'm not an advocate of over regulation by the govt., but in this case I have to agree something needs to be done.

GP
Jan '10

I just received my bill today from Suburban Propane. Cost per gallon over $5.00. Does anyone know a local Northern NJ company who installs underground propane tanks (1000 gallon)? Any ideas on cost to purchase and get installed? Can I install a second tank next to my Suburban tank?

Neil Armstrong
Jan '10

I got Suburan to lower my propane to $3.08 today, I had 400 gal delivered. I live in Morris County. Is this legal? Can they charge one customer $7.19/gal and me $3.08/gal for the same amount in the same area. Something needs to be done to stop this. Can they be reported to the state or something? What about a class action law suit. This can not be legal!!!

shannon

Suburben Propane charged me $5.159/gal for 230.5 gallons delivered on 12/10/09. I just called and they came down to $3.09. Better but still a 28.9% increase from my 07/09/09 bill of $2.399/gal. Talk about arbitrary price gouging!!!

John

Played the Suburban propane name your own price game 1/5/2009. The changed price changed from $5.5690 a gallon to $3.08 a gallon. William Shatner would be proud.

Neil Armstrong
Jan '10

I was charged 8.23/ gal on my recent bill from suburban in hunterdon county--i will call them to try and adjust a 3.08-3.09 -- what a pain in the gas

Greg
Jan '10

I recieved an rough estimate from Precision Propane in Northern NJ to install a 500gal underground tank that I would own. The estimate was around $2500.

shannon

I am so glad that I am not the only one that feels completely taken advantage of from Suburban. They are so unprofessional yet claim they are the only professional company in the area. We want to buy our tank from them but they said they normally will not sell the tank to the customer. Also they will charge a removal fee and a per gallon fee to remove remaining gas (gas I've already paid for). I would like to know how the person from the earlier posts got a quote of $1300 to purchase the tank? I want out of this company so bad, something has to be done. How do they have such control over something that is on my property? If I no longer want to use them as my gas company I should have that right!!!!!

I just got 300 gallons delivered @ $3.899 per gallon from Farm & Home. A friend told me about another company and they just quoted me $2.34 per gallon. The difference is amazing.

CM
Jan '10

Just bought a 120 gallon propane tank from Greeenworks & had installed today. They service all of Hunterdon & Warren Counties in NJ. Complete professionals! Will also purchase heating oil from them. http://www.greenworkspropane.com/ Can now rest assured that I'll never be getting screwed by Amerigas again.

Robert
Jan '10

Is there anybody out there that knows another Propane providor in Southern NJ besides Modern Gas? Just got charged 5.09 a gallon! Called and got them to come down to 3.99, but still! If my kerosene heater didn't stink so much and make me naseous, I'd use that. Hands down the warmest heat I've felt!

Andrew
Jan '10

I had a plumber come to my all electric house in Western PA and install gas logs in my woodburning fireplace in January of 2009. He asked me who I was using for LP Gas. When I told him that I had Suburban coming out in a few days, he told me that it was in my best interest to call them and cancel the delivery because they gouge their customers. So, I called the supplier that he suggested (Valley National Gases) and they came out and installed a FULL 100 gallon LP tank and connected it to my newly installed line and lit my pilot for a total cost of $378.31. VNG's cost per gallon was over $1.25 less than Surban had quoted me.
Last month, I got my annual tank rental bill for $69.96
Today, they came and topped off my tank.
62.3 gallons @ $2.9000 plus HazMat & Fuel Surcharge fee.
TOTAL INVOICE: $195.30

Kenny Edwards

Good Link to Prices.

www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/weekly_petroleum_status_report/current/pdf/tablec3.pdf

Marv Renderman
Jan '10

I am SO HAPPY to have found this site. I posted on December 30, when Suburban delivered propane to my home for $4.13 per gallon. This time of year I am so busy with my job that I have had no time to call and argue with them, but today I had another delivery, and this time it was even more - $4.129 per gallon. You can bet I am calling them tomorrow. I would like to have them reduce my costs for the last couple deliveries, but really just want them out of my life. I will be calling around, but my question is what about people like me who need a 500 gallon tank? Is there such a thing as an above-ground one? It must be enormous and look horrific! I do NOT pay a rental fee for the tank -just a regulatory fee as well as transportation surcharge. How do you know if you own your tank? I don't think I do, but do they just "give" you the tank so they can lock you into their exorbitant pricing? I have had it - isn't there an attorney out there who has been abused by these companies that might be interested in filing a suit against Suburban? I will be happy to provide info.

GOOD NEWS! Elizabethtown (NUI) Gas is putting in natural gas lines RIGHT NOW from Sparta to Hackettstown. I am praying that this will become available to a lot of us, so EVERYONE who lives near Route 517 should be aware and be writing to the company to tell them - WE NEED YOU!

Dana Mooney

suburban charged me $6.07/gallon today. 565 gallons. do the math. Eastern propane quoted me $2.69/gallon. i have called a few propane distributors and they thought it was outrageous. Suburban has to be the laughing stock of the industry. just remember , even if your tank is in the ground, unless the ownership is stated in your deed when you bought the property , the tank is yours. i refused to pay the bill and wrote a letter to the cust service manager in whippany Jennerfer Wright and cced the president and ceo Michael Dunn. i am also ccing all local newspapers and radio stations. i would also suggest you contact all your neighbors and get a group rate. or maybe follow the suburban truck around and advise the poor homeowners that they are being gouged.

gm
Jan '10

I think these gas prices suck....when I filled my tank up 17th of Dec.it was 2.29 which is good based on other prices however, my neighbor next door does business with same company he was quoted 2.09 on the that Wed.and I called Thrusday and mine was 2.29,He has been with them a year..Me over 10 years...I pay net 30 Days NO DISCOUNT..I will be changinf company this summer.....I'am in Eastern North Carolina.

firefighter79

Just checked my Dad's Bill. ( he's 94) Suburban Propane let him run out of propane twice last year, Most recently on Christmas Eve. Delivered on 12/24 and again on 1/15/10. price on bill was $6.099/gallon. Unbelievable. Watch these crooks.

Capt. Steve

Dana Mooney- I hope you don't use math in your job LOL.

Gordy

I switched from suburban propane to Greenworks and Suburban wants to charge a $75 "tank removal fee". I was told to check with the NJ LP consumer board of rights to see if they filed a permit for this fee because if not it's illegal. I can not find out anything about this does any one know how to find out??

Played the price game today with Suburban. On ticket was 5.7590. They offered 4.259. I told them the average for the week of 1/11 was 3.77. They matched 3.77.

Also asked them if I could purchase the tank. They said no! Has anyone purchased a 1000 gallon tank from Suburban? Who did you speak to? What was the price?

Ernie Johnson
Jan '10

I live in Morris County and received a bill from Suburben Propane for $4.759 @ 157.7/gal.
I just called today 1/19/10 and they reduced it to 3.3099/gal which is what I paid last month. I think you always need to call them to reduce the price!

John

i just created a formal complaint to the nj div of comsurer affairs online--for whatever that does. i also went to suburban's own website-typed in "complaints" in their search form and got a link to an ethics complaint third party company. i thought charging twice the going rate for propane $6.02/gal on 567 gallones was """"unethical""" .

gm
Jan '10

I was charged $5.08/gal (Suburban). I called them and asked them to explain the tank-removal process so that I can switch companies. To which the service rep responded, "We'll reduce your rate to 3.20/gal." What a bunch of crooks.

natalie
Jan '10

Current wholesale price per gallon ($1.42.766 as of 1/18/2010)

Jimmy Paige
Jan '10

i have just recieved my bill from suburban of $770 @ $4.44/gln for the month were i hardly use my heat since we are mostly out of the house. i live in hopatcong NJ are there other companies that i can use to get quotes. i called them up today and they are going to review my price on monday. now after these post i deffenatly going to ask for $2 and change.

ruben ruggier

Wow, what a nightmare from Suburban Propane. Thanks for posting everyone. I've had the same issue with Modern Gas of Pleasantville, NJ. Through all of last year, my prices were relatively cheap, $2.50-$2.70. My first delivery this winter was $4.25!!!! I went apesh*t. I got quotes from a couple other places. I'm on the road a lot, and busy, so I'm worried about having my tanks removed in the middle of winter, and having to milk my tanks down to the bare bottom, before I have another company come in and replaced them. I don't know what to do. Modern Gas blows. They just came and filled my tanks again yesterday, $3.70!!!!

phil

I had suburban holding me hostage for 4.00 per gallon and they said i had no choice because they owned my underground tank, I asked them for proof of this and they could not produce any paperwork proving this. I contacted my attorney and he said if they can not produce documentation then they do not own the tank.Take my advice, demand from suburban that they have proof .I called Greenworks and paid 1.99 per gallon on 800 gallons....thats a savings of 1600.00 on my first fill!!!! Thank You for these posts I'm finally free from suburban and there strongarm tactics.

Scott in Chester NJ
Jan '10

Suburban lost my paper work for when they installed my underground tank. I know it is their tank because I had them install it. I have been asking them to sell me the tank and they refused. I will try telling them if they can not provide proof that they own it I will consider it my. Thanks for the information. These crooks at suburban must be stopped!

shannon

Hi just got slammed for 339 up 40cents from last month,Its crazy,local co. in south jersey

masterp
Jan '10

Synergy Gas in Parsippany NJ has been great and honest with me ever since I started using them 8 years ago. The are always concious of their competitors prices and provide fair rates. Give them a call if you are unhappy with your company.

mike

I live in Hunterdon County and feel like I have been robbed from Suburban. Started the winter at $4.09 and 6 weeks later went to 5.36. I called and asked for justification and proof of how the increase could be possible in 6 weeks. They lowered back to 4.09. Now 6 weeks later and got a bill for 5.88 for 400 gallons ($2,400) and called to find out how to buy my tank because I am DONE. The rep told me they are will to work with me and again lowered the 4.09 and locked my into 4.09 for next bill also.
I too will be going to report the issue with Consumer Affairs today. I feel like a sucker that I should have not complained sooner. Am I supposed to feel greatful to pay 4.09. I was told from Amerigas that the market price was 2.89 this week.

cs
Jan '10

I Live in DEL. Co. Pa. I have been with suburban for ten years. I burn about 300 gal. a year. I got propane two days ago and the price was 603.9 no lye. ( auto delivery ) so I got on the phone to others and County Propane said they would give me their tank for 84.00 per year and fill the tank the first time for 2.50.9 per gallon. Then I would pay 3.14.9 per gallon. so I called Sub. and they looked into it and came back at 3.79.9 per gallon. sounds like they are counting on people not checking there bill for price per gallon. thats almost 50 % difference in price, between two co. same area. ITS HIGHWAY ROBBERY to me .

Tom
Jan '10

I live in a townhouse that uses propane for heat and the stove/oven. Our last bill has us paying $4.83 a gallon, for a bill of almost $800! Its a 2 bedroom townhouse with only 2 exposed walls. We keep our thermostat very low (I use allot of blankets) and are having an energy audit done to see where we can be more efficient, but that price per gallon is just ridiculous. And yes, this is with Suburban.

PoorFromPropane
Jan '10

I live in Hackettstown NJ and I use Oil and Propane in my house. I went online last night to check prices on both and found prices for heating oil but the ONLY company to advertise their price for propane is Greenworks Propane in Easton PA. Can someone tell me why propane prices are not advertised like heating oil? I called Greenworks to see if it was just for first fill and they assured me this was their price for everyone not just new customers. They quoted me 41.00 per month or 492.00 per year for a 500 gallon tank rental but I will be saving over 1.50 per gallon on 2000 gallons per year thats a 2500.00 savings including the tank rental. I will be getting rid of Amerigas next week and using Greenworks.

Eric S. in H'Town
Jan '10

Has anyone actually purchased a 1000 gallon tank? If so what was the cost?

James Conover
Jan '10

I'm located in Orlando, Fl and am tired of my LP gas company. They own the tank and my call tomorrow will be to lower my ppg below $3 or pick up the tank. Last price in Jan was $3.69.

Skip

This thread should be forwarded to the attorney general... Christie's office, too.

YKW
Feb '10

I am so glad to have read these posts. I have a four year old and we have little to no propane left. We called Suburban to try and work something out until we will have enough to pay off our bill which will be in about two weeks but they said if we don't pay the bill in full no delivery. We had a budget plan but that was $500 a month, and I can't pay that. They went from charging me $3.57 a gallon to $4.04. This caused my bill to jump about $200. After reading these posts I will fight for them to reduce the price or produce proof they own the tank.
They charge you more, the less you use. My parents have Yankee Propane and they pay $2.69 a gallon. Plus Yankee works with them during hard times. I would tell everyone to go to Yankee.

Wendy
Feb '10

Stem Brothers (out of Milford, NJ) just charged me $2.70/gallon - this was for about 600 gallons. I had previously found them to be fair and their customer service excellent but now I see I can save $1/gallon with GreenWorks. I am going to have to look into a change.
The tank removal / install will be a bit of a pain I guess. Unless I own the tank. I'll have to find that out.

Richard

http://www.complaintsboard.com/bycompany/suburban-propane-a60564.html

Nosula
Feb '10

Hey Wendy, $500.00 a month budget plan, some budget. Do people with propane use that year round for other things? I've never lived anywhere that I used propane. Just curious

Bessie

Read the complaints about Suburban Propane, sounds like a terrible business to be involved with. Can you switch propane companies with out a problem? We have gas so have to use Elizabethtown Gas. Seems like if you don't have to use Suburban, avoid at all costs.

Bessie

I sent this to Fox 5 - Shame, Shame, Shame and the Warren Reporter. I suggest we all start sending this link to the media and politicians. Eventually, we will find someone who will investigate it. Please post where you sent it to.

N & A & E

Does Suburban Propane fall under the BPU?

YKW
Feb '10

Greenworks is really the way to go. They have an excellent program, excellent service, which is the name of the game and very competitive pricing, which in the long run is cheaper than what is around

karlec

Propane companies are NOT regulated by BTU.

GreenWorks delivered 600 gal. the other day at 199!

I own my tank so it was an easy process.

I'm hooked.

Sawmill
Feb '10

James Conover: My 100 gal propane tank cost about $1,500. Even if you pay $3,000 for a tank it could pay-for-itself in one year. Having freedom to shop for the best price is well worth the cost of the tank.

Sawmill
Feb '10

oops: I meant to say 1000 gal tank.

Sawmill
Feb '10

I'm down south in Cumberland County. I own my 1000 gallon tank. I deal with Allen Propane. They give me a .30 discount for owning my own tank. Quoted me 2.49 which includes my .30 discount for a delivery for next week. I had Suburbon at my last house. had two tanks, 1 for house and 1 for garage. they would fill them both at the same time and charge me 2.00 more per gal. on one tank. I would call and they would tell me to pay both bills at the lower rate, but it seemed obvious to me that they were purposely padding bills. Think about all the people that just pay it. Should be criminal! Open regulation is necessary for sure. Lets hope Christie's people are reading this!

Tiny

i'm in the process of purchasing a home in sparta/ogdens area and the there is a suburban tank in the ground. Even the neighbors were saying they were going through the tank removal process.

i see a huge advantage in owning your tank from this forum. what do i need to be aware of in terms of risks of owning my own tank?

rich

@Rich ~ definitely get rid of a Suburban owned tank. In fact, if you can own your own tank, that is the best way to go. We purchased in Sparta in 2008 and we own our own 500 gallon tank. You are able to shop around and get the best price available among the propane companies. We've been paying 2.39/9 from FerrellGas and when they recently went up to 3.54/9 (because of high demand/low supply they said), I called Suburban and they are at 3.69/9. Quite a difference when you are filling 400+ gallons! Owning gives you the max. flexability which is key. Good luck!

bwise in Sparta

I live in Darien, CT. I just received a delivery from Paraco Gas yesterday. They charged me 5.75 per gallon. I checked online and found out that Propane retail price is only around 2.70 - 2.80 per gallon in the last few weeks in CT ( http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pri_wfr_dcus_SCT_w.htm).

I do get my heating old at a reasonable price here in CT. I paid 2.60 per gallon last week which is below the retail price of around 2.90-3.00.

I did complain to Paraco last year (March 2009) when they charged me 5.14 per gallon. They took off 25 cents. I am wondering if anyone else paying such high price in CT. I think they might take off 25 cent if I complain to them again.

I can shop around and switch. Are there any other option I have to reduce the price for already-delivered propane? Thanks in advance.

BTW, I own the tank and get delivery only once a year (about 70 gallons).

Alan

How much did Greenwork charge for the tank/installation? What size tank?

Betty Davis
Feb '10

Just got a delivery from Suburban Propane. $5.06 a gallon! I have propane heat, hot water and stove.Needless to say I'll have trouble paying this bill. Last delivery was Dec. 2 ($4.50 a gallon) I couldn't pay them right away and I was hounded with phone calls. Isn't it enough that I pay a late charge for the unpaid balance? Luckily I have a wood stove for the coldest days, since my thermostat does not over 62 degrees. Does it make any kind of business sense to create ill will with these kinds of tactics? Even long time customers such as myself will be forced to go elsewhere. For anyone who is interested, try this web site. www.suburban-propane-class-action.com

Don
Feb '10

I live in Lafayette in Sussex County and have Eastern Propane. Recent prices per gallon was $2.80 in Feb 2010 and $2.63 in Dec 2009 for over 450 gallons each time. Thought ours was high but doesn't look as bad as others. We rent the tank and have annual minimum buy.
Agree this should be regulated by a state/gov't agency to prevent getting ripped off.

Tom
Feb '10

just got a 400 gallon fill from Suburban on my 1000 tank. We are on will call and were almost empty so they came out today. We last filled 12/27/10 @ 4.459/gal, today they were at 4.29/gal, i told the driver it was ridiculous and he called the office and said OK they're going to charge you $3.99/gal, and told me to call in my credit card. I called in, asked the customer service person to confirm the price and she said $4.64/gal!
here we go... so i said this was unaccetable, and miraculously she said there was an adjustment in the system, and that i'll be charged 2.69/gal. this represents 1.95/gal savings or $780.00 on my 400 gal fill. this is insane. i told Suburban that i want to buy the tank, they said no, it's their asset. told them OK, come get it, they said i have to dig it up they won't, and it has to be empty or there's a $200/hr pumping fee to empty it. I'll be renting a backhoe and taking it up myself come springtime.

brian in boonton
Feb '10

I live in Monmouth County and I had Suburban Propane deliver on January 6, 2010 and it costs me $1,619. They just delivered again today February 24th and my bill is $1,899. Six weeks and it cost me almost $1,900?? I called Suburban and the secretary told me the manager would call me back and hopefully lower the rate. I haven't heard back from them yet.

Michael in Middletow
Feb '10

DO NOT USE SUBURBAN THEY ARE PRICE GOUGING THEIR CUSTOMERS!!!

I am on automatic delivery from their Washington NJ location, they won't lock in price, only in August. Here are their last three delivery prices.... Dec. $5.609, Jan. $6.369, Feb. $5.199

I have had to call them each month and demand an adjustment, sales manager refuses to even speak to me when I request an explaination. I have Amerigas at another property, locked in at $2.39. They quoted me $2.81 last month to delivered to my own tank. Their price arrangements are better however, I had to bag Amerigas at another location for letting my tanks go empty three winters in a row even when on automatic delivery.

Recommendation, buy your own tanks, make them large enough for one years supply and buy your fuel in the summer when prices are down due lower demand and resulting supply increases and for God's sake shop around, let them know you won't do buisness with companies who treat their customers in this manner. As soon as the weather breaks Suburban's tanks are gone.

See this link for regional weekly prices on propane... http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/weekly_petroleum_status_report/current/pdf/tablec3.pdf

Putnam Fuels
Mar '10

I just called for a price from Eastern Propane in Oakridge, NJ. As of today the rate is 2.95. So far Eastern Propane seems to be the only decent propane company. I rent (2) 100 gallon cylinder tanks from them and the cost is 19.25, every (3) months. They are always very kind to me when I call for service. I would highly recommend them!

Propane user
Mar '10

I didn't read every post because there are so many!! Looks like Suburban is the worst, though. I have them (not by choice, but because their tank is in my ground), and every August I take out a contract & bargain for a locked-in price. If you do the same, look at your bill EVERY month, as well as EVERY delivery receipt & make sure that they bill the right amount. I can't tell you how many times I have to call them EVERY year!!

SandraDee
Mar '10

1/31/2010. Modern Gas. Last fill 2.69/Gn. This fill it jumped to 3.99/ Gn! I called and asked them why the increase since I have been doing business with them for two years and price never jumped like this. They said it was do to speculation! Someone else in the development complained and got their price cut almost in half. I will be shopping around this fill - PRICE GOUGING INDEED!

ROSEMARIE

Just got oil from greenworkspropane.com oil price was $2.47, propane was $1.99
Don't know about the tank stuff since I have oil but it's worth checking them out!

Tigermom
Mar '10

We have electric heat (ugh!) and use propane for the hot water heater. We use Budd Oil since that's what the previous owner had used. Really haven't had a problem with them. Of course our last fill was priced at $3.99/gal but it was only for less than 20 gal. We had someone come and get info on switching over to oil. Natural gas is not an option since the line doesn't come near us and it would be about $40K just to get the line to our house-not including any work. We had oil in our old house and once we got a new burner, we were very happy. We thought about switching to propane but even the gentleman who came out said it would be a bad move as propane is unregulated and once it goes up-it never comes down as opposed to oil. It will be a big cost/investment but since we plan on staying put for the long run, it may be the best move. The electric heat is expensive and so dry.

blackcat

Does anyone know if greenworks delivers to williamstown nj in monroe twp? Iam paying 3.99/gal up from 2.69/gal in sept. from Modern Gas. Terrible company to do business with! I am around for prices. Thank you.

ROSEMARIE

Try Allen's Propane great prices and good service

bob
Mar '10

It is my understanding that you can ask the propane company to remove their tank from your property and they cannot refuse. Better if it came with your house. If you signed a lease contract check the language for removing the tank. Usually they will argue and then just turn over the title, cheaper than removing the tank. This happened to my brother

mohawk

Hey people,

I work at GREENWORKS PROPANE & FUEL OIL. How I found this site was by "googling" our company name. VERY glad I did!

I realized people were mad at your propane companies, but I did not know to what extent. I have the "job" of designing programs that benefit CONSUMERS first, not us. So I want, no, I need to know what you guys want. Obviously, we have to deliver propane and heating oil at a fair price, enough to stay in business, but what other things are you looking for?

Budgets, price caps, pre-buys, pay with paypal, google checkout? TELL ME!

What I am doing now is re-designing our E-COMMERCE WEBSITE to allow easy, 24-hr ordering. This will help us lower our costs and pass those savings on to you. E-mail me any features you want to see at ralph@greenworkspropane.com.

Let me tell you, we are not making any friends in the propane business. Actually, they are mad as hell. Cutting off our local propane supply, calling the NJ Consumer Affairs (who is supposed to be on the side of the consumer, not Amerigas!!) are just a few things that they are doing to stop us from changing "Business as Usual". Propane at a Fair Price.....Who would have thought that that was a crime.

I will try to keep everyone informed of what's going on, but feel free to email me with any questions or ideas.

Thanks
Ralph
ralph@greenworkspropane.com

Ralph T

greenworks is the best I have herd of out here. I can tell you how to switch from the hold of the propane companies just let me know if you need help. Its a process and your current company will not tell you what to do. You can cut your bill in half. Dont pay more than $2.00 a gallon.

PROPANE IS A SCAM
Mar '10

Eric S. in H'Town
did you get rid of ameri gas. How hard was it to switch.

PROPANE IS A SCAM
Mar '10

I just got oil from GreenWorks. Can't believe how cheap, much cheaper and at least the driver smiled.

karlec

I am having a LOT of trouble with Precision Propane, including being penalized for not having the financial stability to be able to pay for my tank to be filled. Even with a 200 gallon request, they are still charging me a $107 partial fill labor charge and that is ONTOP of the 3.89 price for the propane they are charging me.

I just spoke with Greenworks and got a price of $1.79 .... I am going to try and have a new tank installed and fire Precision .... they actually told me when I asked why they were charging me a fee that it was because I was a 'Will Call' customer .. as if I were second rate. They also refused to repair my guage when broken, causing me to run out of propane when the temperatures were below 30 at night. I have two young children and they did not seem to care. The second and fourth delivery requests this winter, they just forgot to put me on the list.

I too am looking for fairness in this - and no more price gouging - I should not be penalized for just being their customer or be stuck in a situation where I have no choice ...

If anyone know of a class action lawsuit in the works, please post it here.

Julie

Juile,

Precision Propane was bought by one of the major propane companies. It is now "business as usual". We got a call from one of Precision's long time salesman telling us that he is mad as hell that they are ripping off his customers that he's known for years!!

Regarding your new GREENWORKS install, let me know if you have any questions or issues. Also, relating to my last post, let me know if there is anything we can do that can improve your experience with us. Online ordering? Budgets? Automatic delivery?

Ralph@greenworkspropane.com

Ralph T

http://www.suburban-propane-class-action.com/

Just fired precision and hired greenworks. Now precision sent us a final bill and is only trying to credit us back for $2 a gallon when we last paid $3.59 a gallon. Can they do that? Any help would be great before I call them on Monday morning.

Billy O
Apr '10

Billy O,

Get yourself a copy of the NJ Concumer Bill of Rights regarding propane. They HAVE to credit you for the propane in your tank at the price that they CHARGED you.

Ralph T

Apr '10

Have also been struggling with the price-gouging issue since our 500 gal above ground tank (Suburban Propane) was replenished just over a week ago. The bill presented for our delivery of over 200 gal was at $5.499 per. A series of calls were unproductive until today when we were offered 20% off by a supervisor - at $4.399 - our fault apparently for using only around 340 gals per year.

We had spoken earlier today with Green Works who offered $1.79 - irrespective of volume. They will sell you a new tank or rent you one. Prices are uppish but considerably softened by the gas price. We will likely be talking to them some more.

Suburban want $250 to remove their tank which will also have to be pumped out before transport. The fee for this is $200 per hour. Can anyone provide an educated estimate for how long it will take to pump out a nearly full tank i.e. up to 400 gals? Or is the time they take to deliver a reliable indicator?

Thanks to all for the posts on this topic - they really helped us make progress.

Keith

Keith

Apr '10

Just called Precision and was quoted 2.899/gal to fill my 250 gal tank. I am new to the propane thing since I bought the house late last year and this is the pool heater tank. Is there a web site that consolidates all the regional vendors prices? Too late to change vendors now, but I will looking into this over the summer.

NewPool
Apr '10

Hey folks
I don't post here often, but if you are looking for the best price for propane or heating oil check out www.greenworkspropane.com
The pricing as of 5/3/2010 was $1.79.9 gallon for propane (minimum 75 gallons) and $2.40.9 gallon for oil if you order online (minimum of 150 gallons) of oil.

Nonpariel
May '10

I just got my Propane tanks filled 6.059 per gallon
was not sure ho far down they were I have 2-220 gallon tanks and they have no gaugeing to tell you there level . so I am ordering fuel before i should , so they said that they would exchang my tanks with ones with gauges and at no cost and give me a credit for the fuel in my tanks toward the the filling of the new tanks i rent my tanks at 230 per year I ave this feeling that I am getting taken

CagedAnimal

May '10

Just purchased my very own 1000 gallon and put it next to my suburban tank. Can't wait for "will call" call. I'll be asking the price and saying no-thanks.

Mr. Sparta
May '10

Anyone tried GreenWorks Propane, Inc. in Allentown? I just called Synergy in Parsippany and told them I will be switching and the Synergy manager spent all the time bad mouthing them...anyone have any experience?

Charlie
May '10

Suburban - 4.15 / gal May 19 2010 - They own the tank.. how much to buy a tank and install?

Flanders
May '10

tcrankwa

May '10

Cost for a 1,000 gallon tank installed including machine time 5 - 6K

Roger McMaster
May '10

Have Amerigas paying $2.39/gal on their Ameriguard installment plan which costs $8.25 monthly ($99/year) to sign-up for.

Also have billed items Fuel Recovery Fee ($4.03) and Hazmat Surcharge ($5.85)--are these government mandated taxes or is Amerigas just disguising fees to charge me?

All in all, it seems reasonable based on some of the gouging mentioned on other posts. They own the tank so I'm somewhat hemmed in if I wanted to move to another supplier though I could use to save a couple bucks if I could get a better arrangement. Wonder how many gallons it'd take to make a switch worthwhile?

Jack, Tewks

Jun '10

Have just switched from Suburban Propane to GreenworksPropane. Bought a new 500 gal tank to replace the (surprise it’s rented now) above ground tank.

A few tips: Make sure you define with Suburban beforehand the costs of removal and pump out (timed) before they schedule. Note their answers or record the conversation. Photograph the tank gauge digitally with a date just before they come on the day. Time the arrival and departure of the propane truck and check on the "chaps" frequently so YOU know when the tank is less than 5% full. (In our case THEY seemed not to be in a hurry.)

Check the work order they want you to sign carefully. Ours was fanciful. Call them if necessary.

Check the final account invoice carefully. Ours was incorrect. Call them if necessary.

Keith

Jun '10

We live in Hopatcong and have been with Synergy. When I saw the Greenworks ad and web site I called Synergy and spoke with Scott in Parsippany. He pumped me full of misinformation. We did some checking about on the condition of the Synergy propane tank and found it is NOT in compliance...there is a NJ state agency that enforces the codes for propane tanks, storage and distribution, they have received an email from me about the condition of the Synergy tank...I AM NOT PAYING A CENT FOR THEM TO COME AND GET IT.
Nothing but good things to say about Greenworks...they even called to tell me they would be one hour late! Over 300 gallons at approx $1.80/gallon and now a chance to lock in $1.99 if you prebuy!

chascnj

Jun '10

First let me start by saying most propane companies are like cheap used car salesmen (sorry to insult used car salesmen). Anytime you put a company in a postion where they can raise their prices on a whim withot any repercussions is bad. The worst thing you can do is rent those tanks, this forces you to buy gas from them at whatever they feel like charging you. The natural gas Utilities in New Jersey are regulated by the BPU who oversees the pricing of the fuel. I first started with Suburban more than 10 years ago and was paying .99 per gallon, then their prices went up to 3.00 per gallon so I switched to Able propane. It seemed to be a good choice at that time then came the Newton (aka 3 mile Island fiasco) they changed their name to Precision and have gone downhill fast. I just found out that Precision was bought out by a large Propane company in the midwest and they were still charging 3.99 a gallon in May. Enter Greenworks propane. I met with one of the owners and asked alot of questions because this isn't my first rodeo, I just had 3 100 gallon tanks installed and paid 1.79 per gallon. The impression I got after talking to the people of Greenworks is that they are just as fed up with the gouging in this industry as we are. THANKS GREEN WORKS!

Teddybaby
Jun '10

I got a quote from Amerigas for 2.999 for a years worth of propane. Greenworks is $1.799. Why is there such a discrepancy?

Propane
Jul '10

In my opinion, the answer to that discrepancy is simply by putting your feet in their shoes based on these facts:
~98% of their customer base is MONOPOLIZED (sadly because we are forced to rent their tanks by buying a house with a tank that's not the House seller's or we have little choice on competitors because most areas Propane companies, like the mafia, have long time ago had ZONED/divied up their customer base into counties/areas to serve/compete with their own customer based also most people are locked to give up our right for a fair-price-choice if we buy or own our own tank due to the high purchase/construction costs/maintenance-fees/ and/or simply just avoid the inconvenience to lose/cut-off our current propane supply), therefore Propane Companies can afford lose their ~2%, even not waste time or advertising costs to chase the ~2% or more "individual" people who leave over price - Why? Because they work on getting "Builder" or "Contractor" contracts who build houses with their own tanks that further MONOPOLIZES to new home owners in new areas that require Propane - Just saying, since it's unlikely or until their is a change that would make a significant percentage of their customer base who leave Propane Company "A" for the better price to Propane Company "B", Propane Company "A" is not going to do anything but keep SQUEEZE OUT EVERY PENNY OUT OF YOUR POCKET and SWEAT YOU OUT – Or in other words, since Greenworks seem to be the only Propane company willing to cut their profit margin (or just needed to) to build up/start grow its new customer base (I think Started April 2009?), all I can say is as it may be great to ride/enjoy their low prices with their growth, but when they grow to hit a plateu (when they start looking how to stretch their profit margin) or Greenworks grows as big (gets merged or bought out by the other greasy ones) as the other guys, will they keep their lower price? - I don't know but hope so - They can be a Pioneer in Propane Pricing and Fair Trade if we stay united by chasing lower prices and taking over their tanks or until the government steps in for some real “deregulating”/”de-price-gorging” policies in the industry and/or we stay divided, Fair Propane Pricing/Competition will be hard to find in any time soon

Propane

Should I lock in at $2.64 Amerigas? Nazareth, PA. Can seem to find a projected cost for propane in 2010/2011.

cormy

Forgot to add they charge $109 for the "privilege" of locking in.

cormy

OK, Last year @ Amerigas in South Jersey, we paid $2.399 and that was a consistent price at my parents and a buddy's. I just called to see what the lock-in is and they said $2.969. I was floored so I called Allns's and they gave me a prebuy price of 2.699. Just passing along info - I'm not certain if I want to switch again yet...we originally had Penn-Jersey 25 years ago, then switched to MGS, and then Amerigas about 3 years ago.

Daz
Jul '10

Whatever you do - Do not lock into a price right now if you have Amerigas. The Chester office sent out their lock in price of $2.999 and promptly lost 80% of their clients. The office isn't even answering the phone right now because so many people have called to cancel. The corporate office, who set the price really screwed this up. So if you have Amerigas call them and tell them you no longer want to be on their plan - otherwise you're going to end paying the top price all winter.

Propane
Jul '10

Has anyone had any dealings with Yankee Propane out of Florida, NY. I live in Vernon NJ, Sussex County. I have had them the past few years and am happy so far. Considering a pre-buy @ $2.649 per gallon. Minimum of 500 gallons. New to this, please advise.

Carolyn

Fed up with Suburban, Mr Sparta can you tell us where you purchased your own tank? I'm looking for a 1000 gal underground tank. Thanks

Els

Has anybody received any proof from Suburban or ni there deed that states that Suburban owns the tank other than their say so?

Lora

I guess I'm glad I live in ohio. 1.69 prebuy right now

froggye
Aug '10

Wow great site

Nick793

WOW great site !!

I live in Ma. wish I had found this site years ago. I have been with Eastern for 20 years.
I finally have Natural gas lines running by the house, am in the proccess of switching over. Months ago I told Eastern I wouldn't need thier tank anymore, they said they would have to charge me to dig up tank and pump out excess propane, (dug up tank myself and ran it down to less than 5%) now they said there will be a $75.00 removal fee, told them to forget it (leave the tank) then they told me they would start charging me a service fee of $100 a year. Gave into the disposal fee and will be glad to be rid of them.

btw, 500 gl tank in ground (dug the whole myself 20 yrs ago)
aug. 25, 2010

Nick793

I am having a very difficult time finding someone to sell me a 1000 gallon (underground) propane tank. I live in Sussex Cty NJ. Any suggestions and/or expected investment?

allheatedup

@Lora

Regarding the propane company's claim to the tank on your property....

my personal experience is that we purchased the home from the original owner who did not own the tank.

Another propane company representative told me that my current company can go "pound salt" if they don't have the tank listed in the deed or a lien against the tank, etc.

I tried that line with my current company and their response was basically that I had to prove to them that I owned the tank. They insisted that if I owned the tank that I would have a "title" to it.

allheatedup

Isn't it amazing how many of us hate Suburban? This year they priced me at $3.799 with a 1250 gal/year usage for a 2300 sq ft house. Every single year I have to call and haggle and complain and demand to buy their tank, because every single year they jack the price up far and above what is reasonable. The bills just came in the mail yesterday, and look how long this thread is!! Looks like we could all get together and raise a little hell to get lower prices!!

SandraDee
Aug '10

I would call Dixon Brothers 973-627-1978 if you want to buy a tank.

Done It
Aug '10

I had a good call with Dixon Brothers last week -- tank was about 4K plus a bunch of extras that should probably be included in the price. I have GreenWorks coming to the house tomorrow. If GW tank price (3200) includes all the extra goodies Dixon has as ala-carte, then I'll go with GreenWorks.

Thanks for your feedback.

allheatedup

I just got my Pre-Buy from Eastern Propane. $2.46 Gal is higher than I was expecting and I'm not sure what to do. Last year was $2.29 and I didn't think prices had gone up. Any thoughts?

Rich S

I just got my Pre-Buy from Eastern Propane. $2.46 Gal is higher than I was expecting and I'm not sure what to do. Last year was $2.29 and I didn't think prices had gone up. Any thoughts?

Rich S

wow - suburban pulled a fast one......moved their secured plan up, deadline was 8/13. For years its been 9/30. trying ot pul a fast one on customers. I'm starting to shop around and get that tank out of the ground. Good Bye Suburban

fullofgas

Amerigas tank picked up today!
GreenWorks tank coming in a week or so.

allheatedup

allheatedup

Did Amerigas charge to take the tank out?

justsayin

I also got a prebuy price from Eastern Propane at $2.46/gal. I called up and found the current price is $2.31/gal. So, I told them to come fill it up at the current price and then I'll buy the remainder of what I need at the prebuy price.

FarmerJake

This has really been an informing event. I heat with wood, but want to place a small LP Gas wall unit in the kitchen area to help with the chill. It sounds like a real disaster to sign up for Propane, especially a low use project. It sounds like its easier to just use the little tanks (barbeque tanks), than to get involved with a dealer?

THarr

I agree with you THarr and sounds like a great plan! - But depending on how much propane you really need to run your Kitchen area (although I'm no expert on this) but you may be better off with using one of these "Worthington Cylinders 100 lb. Propane Cylinder" I've seen Lowes sells (you can find in their website...$117) instead of those 20lb BBQ tanks ($30 for 20lbs) [cuts your refill/gas runs out time] - Also maybe another idea is it shouldn't be too hard to build/dig an underground case/box (like an underground water container) or even tool-shed-like cover against a side of your home [Backyard appearance, space, and/or Hazard risk reasons having it above ground] - Hope it works out

PropaneNeedsRegulatd
Sep '10

I called Green Works to get a price on buying a propane tank.
Told the person that I wanted to install new tank next to Amerigas tank.
Let Amerigas tank run out, then connect new tank to the house.
She took my name and number about two weeks ago and I never got a
call back.

FedUpwithLP
Sep '10

I agree with GW's bad customer service, I also called about getting a new tank, they took my name and number and never called my back until I called them back again to get more information (~3k)...But, regarding your "2 tank switcheroo plan", first fault in it is GW will charge you 1k more (4k) for excavating (as if you never had a tank before or want to move it - second fault, can you imagine the "explosion" risk having excavating/placing in a tank next to another one...only to have another excavation/digging out one again - Well, I understand what you want, but best is to coordinate the switch/change by leaving/waiting until your tank is near empty (maybe leaving 100gals?...to set a date to get Amerigas get out their tank), while or before you're planning the move, make sure you contacted GW & Amerigas about the start/end of contracts, etc. are set - Also remember to make plenty of pix/recordings of the tank's level before, during removal, and after - Basically, it's better to have this done in 1 time or in 1 place - Great work!!!

PropaneNeedsRegulatd
Sep '10

Awhile ago I received a card mailed from another gas company. They offered to pay the fee Suburban wants to take out their tank for signing up with them. Does anybody out there know who they were? I want to get rid of Suburban.

Frankford, NJ

hi all, i'm buying a home with an eastern propane tank which is buried. I never dealt with propane so I don't know much about it. I have read that if the tank is buried then you own it, not lease it. Is this true? Eastern is telling me that the tank is leased. They also quoted me a current market price of $2.33 per gallon.

Can anyone tell me if Eastern is a good supplier? I have read many complaints against Suburban and others.

Thanks!

newtopropane

Hi, I'm in the same boat - I lived in Bklyn and never had propane, but when I bought a house, it was only after buying it (and reading the fine print in the settlement/closing documentation that yes says, the underground tank is leased by Eastern Propane tank - First I could not believe I can buy a house and later learn not only parts of my own property is not mine!!!, but also I have to deal with them like a tenant...Eastern Propane is really part-landlord, since it's up to them to decide how much they can charge me (and I cannot change/get competitve prices from another firm), PLUS pay them storage RENT/like extra, over-covered home insurance), unless I kick them out (I'll explain more later). Well, after much research and talking to the neighbors (basically other Jerseyans), this greasy business is true and something they are used too?!? (plus have their (now our) Politicians under their Union's control?!?) - Anyway, although I have to say the Eastern people and their prices are ok and DON'T WANT ANYONE "OWN/LEAST/HAVE ME PAY RENT" PART OF MY PROPERTY and found/heard of this new Propane Supplier called Greenworks offering a lower priced than Eastern, the only way to kick-them-out is have them Remove their tank (yes, rip up a part of your lawn/property...remember they are your part-landlord) and replace it with/BUY your own tank [unfortunately about $3,000] - otherwise, you will wind up leasing the tank from someone else, even getting a better price - So, all said, (I remembered have done something like this almost over 10yrs ago with my Bklyn house when (even after was able to switch Oil company providers from time-to-time to get better prices, without the "construction" on my property) I did have to pay $5,000 to convert my house from oil to gas, but was WELL WORTH IT in the end, so) when you find out the tank is not yours and would like to own your own, the steps are to wait until your propane tank gets low, notify both Eastern & Greenworks of the switcheroo (best as close as at the same time...with making as much records/pictures of your tank level before, during, and after so you get correctly creditted for the gas they are taking (remember they only own the tank, not the gas in it...which you paid or bought with the house, etc.) and keep your fingers crossed [Keep a keen eye on everything] so, in the result, you don't have to worry about Price Gourging (well even if its an industry-wide one, it's harder to beat, but at least you can always have the provider supplying you with the best price), don't have to worry about "lawn/property excavation" issues/surprises or have to pay extra "storage/home insurance fees" or rents, and I believe (owning your own tank) is something that will adde value to your when you sell it going forward - Hope more people like us make the switch....because Monopolistic firms/industries are just unamerican!!! (many apologies for getting a bit carried away, but Best on All Your Efforts!!!)

Gov-PlsReformPropane
Sep '10

Lucky for me that my propane tank in above ground. So, at this point I don't see any problem with buying a new tank and having it installed next to the Amerigas tank.

I called Green Works again like I had never called them before and this time got a price over the phone to have a new tank installed. Very simple. Price was about what I was expecting it to be.

I'm still at 35% full but I am going to schedule a new tank install soon.

Presently I have NO contract with Amerigas and I Never did. Bought the house and have been using the propane that I bought from the previous owner.

I hope Green Works keeps on providing a good price on the propane.

Owning my own tank will at least give me the option to shop around if needed.

I'm wondering how that goes though,,, if I call a random propane company to get propane,,, will they bang me extra BS charges BECAUSE I own my tank? Gotta laugh at all this.

I'm glad that I found this forum and I will post my progress.

Thank you all.

FedUpwithLP
Sep '10

Has anybody gone through with purchasing a propane tank from Green Works? Especially if they had a Suburban Propane tank? We are seriously considering this switch and wondering 1) who removed the Suburban Propane tank and 2) were there any additional charges from Green Works that you weren't quoted?

They quoted me a price over the phone and said includes everything. In the past they dug up the SP tank and then installed theirs. Does Suburban really go for this?

After all the nonsense with Suburban I want to make sure I am making the right decision before spending a LOT of $$.

MamaInGreen

MamaInGreen

What's going on w/ Eastern Propane? I got my pre-buy (been doing it for over 5 years) & my unit price is $2.68. I'll be calling them in the morning!

amy8491
Sep '10

Hello, What kind of hook-up connections are proper now? Last time I had propane for a gas stove, we just had a 3/8 copper line. Is that still legal, or does it all have to be $$$$$ iron pipe now? I plan to just have a small (10K or 25K) wall unit in the kitchen.

THarr

Has anybody terminated their Amerigas relationship recently. Were you charged when the tank(s) were removed? Any other issues?

LVhockeygirl

Update for my situation.

First, Amerigas came and emptied the tank -- good crew, nice fellows, etc.

I paid a couple hundred $ for them to pump it out (more work than adding fuel ...) plus maybe a $75 fee to amerigas for some nonsense -- whatever, I am happy to be rid of them. They also credited me back the amount of fuel pumped out, reimbursed at the last price I paid (4 something). Net, net, I am expecting a check for something north of $1,000. I received the statement, but not the check yet. If I don't receive it within a week I will call for it.

I had my excavator (West Morris Excavating) remove the now empty tank and the amerigas crew came back the following day to pick it up. no problems at all so far. Of note, the amerigas tank had no anode bags... glad to have the tank out of my yard!

Excavator dug a large hole in the yard for the new tank. Also trenched a line to the house for the gas to connect.

Greenworks dropped off the tank on one day, came back the next day to install it. Everything is hooked up and open, awaiting the town plumbing inspector to check it out (annoying...).

$70 permit to the town for that "service".

I have not received the bill yet from Greenworks but I expect it to be 3190 plus the per foot price for the piping. Once it is in I will be filling up my first tank with Greenworks.

so far, so good.

AllHeatedUp

GW should be filling my new tank up this week.

I already has some working going on at my home so I did not even explore another excavator that they might have recommended, so I cannot comment on who they use, etc.

Figure a day to get the tank out and the new hole prepped ( in my case, I was moving the location of the tank because where Amerigas had put it forever ago as a terrible spot ).

The install will take a couple of hours and then the inspection is based on when the inspector is available. I was not present when the inspection took place.

Amerigas claims that I will see my funds within 4-6 weeks of when the tank was removed. Not surprising that they hold on to the cash as long as possible.

Good luck

AllHeatedUp